<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0">
	<channel>
		<title><![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "SM vs DA (1850 Tournament)"]]></title>
		<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/17.page</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Latest messages posted in the thread "SM vs DA (1850 Tournament)"]]></description>
		<generator>JForum - http://www.jforum.net</generator>
			<item>
				<title>SM vs DA (1850 Tournament)</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Hi all<br /> <br /> This is game 2 of 6. Apologies photos are at the bottom, I dont know how to post them through the report.<br /> <br /> Clash of the Titans is a yearly tournament in Sydney Australia. There is no score component for how competitive your list is, so its regarded as the place to max out your codex in a competitive environment. This year points available were 1850 with six games variously table quarters, objective and kill points. <br /> <br /> My List <br /> I chose a list that was themed around organic elements to a Space Marine rifle company, in my case second company Aurora chapter. I wanted no ‘chapter’ assets, whether librarian, first company veterans or armoured elements that would come from the chapter pool, such as speeders, vindicators or raiders. As such this list was certainly not optimised and one many would regard with near contempt. Given the nature of this tournament, if this list held its own, then I figured I had a right to say the humble Tactical Marine, even though he constantly forgets his chainsword, is certainly solid and reliable. We will see. <br /> <br /> Captain with Relic Blade, Plasma Pistol <br /> 10 Tactical Marines with Combiplasma, Powerfist, Plasmagun, Lascannon <br /> 10 Tactical Marines with Combimelta, Powerfist, Meltagun, Lascannon in rhino with dozer blade and Hunter Killer missile <br /> 10 Tactical Marines with Combimelta, Powerfist, Meltagun, Lascannon in rhino with dozer blade and Hunter Killer missile <br /> 10 Tactical Marines with Power Axe and Plasma Pistol, Meltagun, Lascannon in Razorback with Twinlinked Heavy Bolters <br /> 10 Tactical Marines with Combiflamer, Powerfist, Flamer, Lascannon in rhino with dozer blade and Hunter Killer missile <br /> 8 Devastators with 4 Plasma Cannons <br /> 7 Devastators with 4 Missile Launchers <br /> <br /> His List – I didnt keep a copy of it but from memory it was something like:<br /> Belial<br /> 5 terminators with <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(224);'>TH</span>/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(221);'>SS</span> and <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span><br /> 4 lots of terminators with a mix of stormbolters/weapons, all squads have a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> and <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(221);'>SS</span><br /> 3 typhoon speeders with <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(330);'>MM</span><br /> 2 auto/las preds<br /> <br /> Mission – Objectives (primary), Kill Points (secondary) and Table Quarters (tertiary) <br /> Primary parameter was worth the most total battle points and determined the winner. <br /> <br /> Deployment – Pitched Battle <br /> <br /> I won the roll off and chose a long table edge that forced him to deploy in the open. My plan was to put hurt onto all those terminators at range using my plasma cannons. <br /> <br /> Turn 1 <br /> <br /> I move 3 vehicles forward to engage his force out to max range. One moves down the left flank towards what looks like an easy to capture objective on his refused flank. <br /> My <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(328);'>ML</span> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(29);'>Devs</span> hit with 3 krak rounds but bounce off his <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(332);'>TDA</span> troops. <br /> Two lascannons wounds bounce off storm shields. <br /> My plasma cannons open up for 6 hits inflicting 5 AP2 wounds! AH HA I say. I kill a storm shield and a second terminator. <br /> Hmm 2 terminators dead so far, I would have liked more... <br /> <br /> Belial comes down and runs 6, spreading his squad of <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(224);'>TH</span>/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(221);'>SS</span> terminators out to the max of coherency. <br /> A <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> glances a rhino, I cant shoot next turn. <br /> Another <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> fires at a second rhino and gets 2 hits bit nil effect. <br /> A 3rd <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> explodes one of my rhinos putting 6 wounds on the squad inside, 2 die. <br /> A 4th <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> rips a storm bolter from one of my two remaining rhinos. <br /> His predator puts a pen on my razorback but I make cover. <br /> His other pred misses my plasma devastators. <br /> <br /> Turn 1 I have lost a vehicle and a few marines, which is fine, but I now have a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(224);'>TH</span>/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(221);'>SS</span> team with Belial in charge range on my right flank. <br /> <br /> Should I take the approach that worked in game 1 and try and blast it to ribbons and then deal with the rest of his force? Or should I surrender that flank and use my vehicles to redeploy away from his main threat and continue sniping at him? <br /> <br /> Turn 2 <br /> <br /> I move everthing at Belial and prepare to hit him and the terminator squad with everything. <br /> First up I put 4 plasma cannon and 2 bolter wounds on the terminators. Belial loses a wound and two terminators go down. So far so good. <br /> A melta/combimelta squad rapid fires into the terminators – all bounce off. <br /> My second melta/combimelta squad all bounces off. <br /> My captain with the combat squad fire two plasma pistols, a meltagun and 3 bolters at the terminators, all bounce off. <br /> My lascannon combat squad (<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(80);'>LC</span> + 4 bolters) all bounce off. <br /> My second devastator squad fires krak rounds can kills the apocathary. <br /> <br /> Everything I could bring to the party has fired at 6 models and I killed 3. Not only is there now still a very nasty threat in the centre of my engagement zone but my defensive line is unable to shake out and face the oncoming threat next turn. <br /> <br /> He rolls for reserves and brings in two of his land speeders. <br /> He shoots four <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> and a bunch of storm bolters at my combat squad with my captain, chopping it down to a captain with 1 wound and a meltagunner. <br /> A final <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> hits one of my squads in cover - both land square and cause 14 hits causing 8 wounds, killing 4 marines. They fail leadership (LD9) and leg it 8’ off the board. <br /> His typhoons and predators then blast away the captain and meltagunner. <br /> <br /> This turn I realised how formidable all those krak missiles are. Im getting a little worried now. To win this game I need to use small arms to clear away Belial and get some of my own krak/lascannon rounds into those speeders. <br /> <br /> Turn 3 <br /> <br /> Time is running out so I move a rhino down my opponents left flank, the one he refused, towards an objective there. The rhino stops just short of cover so the troops could bail into cover if it takes a beating as im anticipating it will. <br /> In the shooting phase I turn first to the remaining terminators on my front doorstep. <br /> My plasma tactical squad rapid fires for 4 plasma wounds and 7 bolter wounds – I get his <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> but the rest only suffer some chipped paint. <br /> My lascannon combat squad (<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(80);'>LC</span>/4bolters) bounce off. <br /> My plasma cannons put 2 wounds on, both are saved. <br /> My 4 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(328);'>ML</span> put 2 krak wounds on, both saved. <br /> My razorback kills the banner bearer, leaving only Belial. <br /> <br /> Again everything I had went into those three remaining terminators and I only got 2. I know im about to get shredded now. <br /> <br /> He brings on his third typhoon speeder. <br /> A typhoon frags a squad of marines in cover and kills 5. <br /> A second typhoon frags another 2 in that unit, leaving 3 left. <br /> A <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> kills another. <br /> A <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> and a few storm bolters then blasts away what is left of that squad. <br /> I stare in horror as he casually guns down 220 points of the Emperors finest. <br /> His 3rd <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> now frags my plasma/combiplasma squad, putting 13 wounds down, killing a few. <br /> His last <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> glances my razorback. <br /> His third typhoon kills 3 marines. <br /> His first predator rips off my razorback’s heavy bolter. <br /> His second predator bounces a bunch of high velocity love off some tactical. <br /> <br /> Belial charges a tactical squad, I put a wound on him and he kills 2. <br /> <br /> Turn 4 <br /> <br /> We are out of time so this will be the last turn. <br /> <br /> I don’t have much left at this point and to be honest im losing faith what I do have can resist the onslaught of all his shooting. <br /> <br /> I jostle around towards some objectives hoping for a miracle draw. <br /> <br /> My plasmagun squad bounce plasma and bolter wounds off Belial. There is almost certainly no paint left on his terminator armour now! <br /> He also ignores 2 plasma cannon wounds. <br /> Finally my opponent rolls a 1 on one of the 4 krak wounds I put on Belial and he goes down. <br /> <br /> My opponent moves terminators to contest one of the objectives I did have. <br /> <br /> One of his predators kills my razorback. The rest do variations of lesser outcomes on the vehicle damage chart to my remaining rhino. <br /> <br /> We call it there, he has 2 objectives to my one. <br /> <br /> Emphatic victory to Dark Angels. <br /> <br /> Concluding remarks <br /> Wow. The volume of St8 AP3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CMLs</span>, nestled into terminator squads that could also take storm shields, was a brutal combination. I needed highly mobile power weapons if I was going to challenge them in <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(19);'>CC</span> because shooting was not the answer (I had 4 plasma cannons going all game!). <br /> <br /> Those typhoons were perfect for this list. To concentrate on taking one down, which would have been relatively simply, meant I had to use a whole unit’s shooting away from the terminators so the lascannon could fire long. As it was the krak devastators would have been perfect, and I tried to hold their fire till last in turns 2 and 3 so I could use them for this purpose, however both times the pressing threat of those terminators was too great to ignore. <br /> <br /> The tacs performed adequately here. Massed fire proved effective against me here – I was moving the tacs to deal with the terminators so I could not employ my small arms out to 24, but in reply his ranged <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CMLs</span> and typhoon <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(328);'>ML</span> shredded my infantry and light vehicles. <br /> <br /> This battle also illustrates that if there is no heavy armour in your list, your light armour will be shredded quickly if you cannot shut down his anti-tank capabilities quickly. Thus this battle made me realise that without heavy armour, against a good list like this <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(25);'>DA</span> one, I only had the illusion of mobility – by turn 2 my vehicles were in various states from destroyed to stunned. I am not planning on coming on foot with just tacticals due to the necessity to concentrating small arms, so if I wanted to try bulk tacs again I would definitely bring either heavy armour (raider/vindicators) to soak some fire or at a minimum EA for the rhinos. <br /> <br /> Finally, massed tactical proved largely ineffective against what is a very competitive list. I really feel I threw everything at those terminators, as much as I did against the space wolf cav and terms, but unfortunately the dice needed to be on my side for that to work against a 2+/3++ squad. Once they walked through it the rest of his army had freedom to manoeuvre and chip away at my combat power. <br /> <br /> Should I have employed a ‘water’ style and flowed around Belial and those terminators while I was still mounted in turn 2? They had thunder hammers (and a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span>) and were on foot, so outrun them right? Well its easy to say however I don’t believe that was a real option. I would have either lost my devastators, which were always going to be critical for their AP2 here, or lost their shooting (assuming I could get them away) for at least 2 turns. Secondly I was deployed deep so there was no room for me to back up, rather I would have to try and scoot left, which might have bought a turn, but I would still have taken a beating from all those missiles. <br /> <br /> No I maintain I had no choice, given my deployment, but to try and crack his hammer before it fell and then turn back to the rest of his army. Had belial and co gone down to shooting in turn 2, turn 3 would have seen those typhoons damaged and some terminators taken down by melta/combimelta, plasma/combiplasma and plasma cannons, which would have given me a chance to then take the inevitable <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(19);'>CC</span> with my tactical squads with fists when that came. <br /> <br /> Still a good battle and a great learning experience.<br /> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/431582/3944301.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/431582/3944301.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:01:26]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Loricatus Aurora]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>SM vs DA (1850 Tournament)</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Awesome battle report. Too bad you lost but hey it is all fun. Belial Deathwing build is very competitive for <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(25);'>DA</span>. Maybe you can take a couple of Predactor yourself next time.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/431582/3944311.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/431582/3944311.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:10:05]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ leohart]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>SM vs DA (1850 Tournament)</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Thanks Leohart, yep im <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(186);'>def</span> going to bring something very different next tourney. Was fun to bring a list that was different though.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/431582/3944630.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/431582/3944630.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:15:41]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Loricatus Aurora]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>Re:SM vs DA (1850 Tournament)</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Need a good counter-assault unit I reckon aurora!<br /> <br /> Well played though, against <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(25);'>DA</span> termis massed <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span>'s are the way to go, but his dice didn't fail him!]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/431582/3949523.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/431582/3949523.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 22 Feb 2012 14:04:38]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Zid]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>SM vs DA (1850 Tournament)</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Thanks Zid. Yep the squad fists did not cut it. Thinking vanguard, which I know Dakkanaughts dislike, but im keen to give them a go.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/431582/3957429.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/431582/3957429.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 24 Feb 2012 07:45:13]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Loricatus Aurora]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>SM vs DA (1850 Tournament)</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Tournament history for those who want to read all 6 battles<br /> <br /> Tournament Game 1 – <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span> victory over Space Wolves<br /> <a href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/431321.page" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/431321.page</a><br /> <br /> Tournament Game 2 – <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span> loss to Dark Angels<br /> <a href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/431582.page" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/431582.page</a><br /> <br /> Tournament game 3 – <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span> loss to Daemons<br /> <a href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/431611.page" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/431611.page</a><br /> <br /> Tournament game 4 – <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span> victory over Iron Hands (vanilla) Space Marines<br /> <a href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/431617.page" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/431617.page</a><br /> <br /> Tournament game 5 – <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span> victory over <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(22);'>CSM</span><br /> <a href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/432490.page#3960955" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/432490.page#3960955</a><br /> <br /> Tournament game 6 – <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span> loss to Grey Knights<br /> <a href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/432544.page" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/432544.page</a><br /> <br /> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/431582/3961894.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/431582/3961894.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 25 Feb 2012 10:43:27]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Loricatus Aurora]]></author>
			</item>
	</channel>
</rss>