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I never got a chance to play yet since I have packed everything into a box so bought a Get Started Tyranid box to start over again. So I am curious how are people on Dakka are liking the new edition. Are you enjoying the new edition? If so, why? If not how come? How about your army you play and collect with?

I'm enjoying 8th quite a lot. It feels like a lot of the gameplay decision-making has been preserved while the fiddly-bits rules lookups, arguments, and incessant save-stacking is gone; the end result feels like I'm still playing 40k, just much more quickly/easily than before.

There are still a few things that need correcting (there needs to be some kind of clarification/understanding that line-of-sight measures to/from the main hull of a vehicle, no more Land Raider using its antenna to fire lascannons at another Land Raider because it can see the antenna, for instance), but I suspect either GW will handle that or one of the tournament-FAQ people will.

As for my armies I'm unhappy with the Grey Knights (lots of utterly unnecessary nerfs), on the fence about the Eldar (DE and Harlequins got a whole lot of toys we didn't over in the Craftworlds) and the rest of the Inquisition (I still want real Stormtroopers back), and happy with Space Marines (or at least happy enough I'm porting my 30k army's lore back into 40k).

Overall I'm liking everything about the core-game and the necessary flattening of the army rules.

Disliking that they chose the least popular, and LAMEST Blood Angel characters to be must-take 'aura givers'.

There are also several point cost issues that I think they could easily fix, and it sounds like they intend to deal with that sort of thing.

Disappointed; My entire IG army style/ theme was dragged outside, shot in the back of the head, burned with petroleum and dumped in an unmarked grave.

My entire idea was a Fortress Defence Force, a regiment specializing in anchoring a line/ holding a fortified area for as long as humanly possible.

To that end, I used Veterans as troops and gave them ALL camo cloaks and carapace armour (even in 7th, I know it wasn't points effective at all but it was my theme). 8th Edition fethed them over by removing Carapace and Camo Cloak options and salting the wounds by making them Elites instead of Troops.

To top it all off, I have a Fortress and that has been massively gimped in utility in 8th (with the sole benefit being durability). It is more expensive for a less reliable gun platform (at 1/3rd wounds, it's basically useless) that can't even carry what it could before (it could hold 4 units previously and now it's down to 1).

8th ed the rules? I am loving them! I've had a few games now and things are looking very balanced, fast paced, no more pissing about in the psychic phase and the fight phases are so brutal!

8th ed my army? I've got a love hate relationship with it at the moment: I love that most of the units have got a nice boost and that my Bezerkers will dominate almost any fight phase but I hate the fact that Legion rules and artifacts have gone, it makes the army feel less personal.

I would definitely recommend this edition to anyone because the base rules are pretty good and most peoples gripes will likely be seen to in the release of Codeces again.

Love that my ad mech is now one army as it should have always been instead of two.

My GSC, well they got more expensive, much worse, and lost their sugnature special rule. So now they're purple orks that cost more.

In terms of the rules? I have some nitpicks:
- I really hate the removal of initiative.
- I don't like that you no longer compare your WS to that of your opponent.
- The movement stat seems a bit dubious. Firstly because the differences between models for different races are negligible compared to the differences between different types of model (e.g. a DE Warrior having an extra inch of movement over a marine means nothing when a Jump Pack gets an extra 6" of movement).
- Also, it seems moronic that neither Charge distances nor the extra movement from Advancing make use of the model's move stat.
- The character targeting rules seem more than a little off. "The swirling maelstrom of battle can make it difficult to pick out such individuals as targets." Okay, so why is it that you can shoot a terminator captain just in front of a squad of near-identical terminators, but you can't shoot a daemon prince standing behind a single cultist half his size?

All that said, I do like a lot of 8th and I think it is an improvement over 7th in most areas. I especially like that infantry is now actually worthwhile - as opposed to being something Wraithknights occasionally step in.


In terms of the armies I play:

DE:
- Their anti-tank weapons have improved to the degree that they're actually good for the first time in about 4 editions. So that's something.
- On the other hand, their transports specially-designed for fast-disembarking operate in exactly the same way as everyone else's (can't disembark after moving). Sigh.
- What really kills it for me though is the characters. We've got few enough to begin with, and now every single ability or piece of wargear that was even remotely interesting has been removed entirely. Have we been given anything in return like, say, the HQs we lost in 7th or the Jetbike and Skyboard options we lost in 5th? Nope. Oh, and Urien lost his defining ability. Because it' fine for other army's HQs to regenerate, but not the special character whose regeneration is the entire reason for his current appearance.

Overall: I've heard that DE are strong now, but the characters (or lack thereof) just kill any interest I might otherwise have in playing them.


Necrons:
- I prefer the new RP rule to the one in 7th.
- Really annoying that HQs don't even have a watered-down version of it though.
- Also, why can the Destroyer Lord take a Phylactery but an Overlord can't?
- I'd have liked to see one of our fast HQs (CCB or Destroyer Lord) have a buff that worked on Praetorians and/or Wraiths.
- That aside, Necrons look pretty good. Most of their special characters are at least passable, and more than a few actually look pretty good. Their regular HQs are very nice and I like that there's a reason to take multiple, different HQs in your army.

Overall: Looking forward to playing them.


IG:
- Infantry squads are cheap and flexible (and no longer get vaporised on turn 1).
- HWSs are cheap and decent.
- Company Commanders are cheap and harder to snipe.
- I love that you can now have an IG army led by St. Celestine.
- Scions are really good.
- Plasma is no longer outclassed by other weapons.

Overall: Really loving how infantry guard are looking in this edition.

The rules seem fine to me, but I don't llike the new rule that you can only use named characters to be themselves in their parent chapter. I play Lamenters and thereby lose Dante, Corbulo, Lemartes, Tycho and Mephiston. I can live with that, but I can't take the Sanguinor or Astorath even though their fluff says they go to all BA chapters... I'll get Malakim Phoros from the FW book, but that hardly makes up for it, IMO.

I also use Astral Claws, and I am hoping they at least will get some love from the FW book.

At least my Phoenix Lords can go anywhere, and I never really use Chaos Marine special characters anyway.

Too marine oriented in the lore. Nothing new there, though. Sadly the Marine to the Marine'th power-- aka Primaris Marines, which are described as (Marine(Marine+Marine))^Marine in terms of strength-- are just a natural continuation of the ridiculous trend that's been going on for a while.

Rules look good though. At least, most factions feel more equal than in strength anyway. So that's a good start.

 Fifty wrote:
The rules seem fine to me, but I don't llike the new rule that you can only use named characters to be themselves in their parent chapter. I play Lamenters and thereby lose Dante, Corbulo, Lemartes, Tycho and Mephiston. I can live with that, but I can't take the Sanguinor or Astorath even though their fluff says they go to all BA chapters... I'll get Malakim Phoros from the FW book, but that hardly makes up for it, IMO.

Why not just give your lamentors chapter <Blood Angels> so you can take Dante like you did last edition?

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Fifty wrote:
The rules seem fine to me, but I don't llike the new rule that you can only use named characters to be themselves in their parent chapter. I play Lamenters and thereby lose Dante, Corbulo, Lemartes, Tycho and Mephiston. I can live with that, but I can't take the Sanguinor or Astorath even though their fluff says they go to all BA chapters... I'll get Malakim Phoros from the FW book, but that hardly makes up for it, IMO.

Why not just give your lamentors chapter <Blood Angels> so you can take Dante like you did last edition?

Because the rules specifically say that you can't take the special characters in successor chapters. I mean, I could say they are in disguise, but the rules say they are <Lamenters>, not <Blood Angels>.

To be fair, it is a minor niggle as the only one I would use is Corbulo and maybe Lemartes anyway. Plus, I only used my Lamenters in a Badab Campaign where we could only use characters from the Badab books anyway. But it just irks me that they are pushing the big chapters in this way.

 Fifty wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Fifty wrote:
The rules seem fine to me, but I don't llike the new rule that you can only use named characters to be themselves in their parent chapter. I play Lamenters and thereby lose Dante, Corbulo, Lemartes, Tycho and Mephiston. I can live with that, but I can't take the Sanguinor or Astorath even though their fluff says they go to all BA chapters... I'll get Malakim Phoros from the FW book, but that hardly makes up for it, IMO.

Why not just give your lamentors chapter <Blood Angels> so you can take Dante like you did last edition?

Because the rules specifically say that you can't take the special characters in successor chapters. I mean, I could say they are in disguise, but the rules say they are <Lamenters>, not <Blood Angels>.

To be fair, it is a minor niggle as the only one I would use is Corbulo and maybe Lemartes anyway. Plus, I only used my Lamenters in a Badab Campaign where we could only use characters from the Badab books anyway. But it just irks me that they are pushing the big chapters in this way.

those rules are silly given that there are no rules for generic chapter masters.

It gets high marks from me for being playable. The removal of all the junk from the previous system is a big positive. I considered 7th edition to be nearly a waste of time at one point.

That said, it's incredibly bland. The basic rules leave much to be desired from a war game, and it doesn't even try to shroud the fact it's just a huge, if fun, dice fest. They did a great job flattening out the power curve and with the individual units in the indexes, but there's no depth to the rules or play beyond them.

It's a shame their maelstrom of war rules are so clunky still, because the mission rules are where the game can shine. I've also become something of a convert to the new power level points system. It could use a few improvements, but in reality the game is so casual and random in the way it plays I just don't really care to figure out exact points and I don't care about every little mathhammered point cost.

If I was comparing it solely to previous versions of 40k/AoS/WFB etc.. (inside the GW bubble) I'd give it a solid 9/10. Considering my other favorite games like bolt action, x wing, runewars, kings of war, etc... it's more like a 6/10.

@fifty - yeah the rules technically say that silliness. In reality would anyone actually be upset if your <blank> chapter just used the rules for blood angels? I think not! I'd play it just fine even in a tournament, it's just a little blurb from GW marketing anyway, and especially if it's a chapter that lacks special characters or unique rules I can't imagine a problem. Trying to use a force painted as ultramarines as blood angels might be legitimately confusing to the other player for example, but I think you're good to go.

 Fifty wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Fifty wrote:
The rules seem fine to me, but I don't llike the new rule that you can only use named characters to be themselves in their parent chapter. I play Lamenters and thereby lose Dante, Corbulo, Lemartes, Tycho and Mephiston. I can live with that, but I can't take the Sanguinor or Astorath even though their fluff says they go to all BA chapters... I'll get Malakim Phoros from the FW book, but that hardly makes up for it, IMO.

Why not just give your lamentors chapter <Blood Angels> so you can take Dante like you did last edition?

Because the rules specifically say that you can't take the special characters in successor chapters. I mean, I could say they are in disguise, but the rules say they are <Lamenters>, not <Blood Angels>.

To be fair, it is a minor niggle as the only one I would use is Corbulo and maybe Lemartes anyway. Plus, I only used my Lamenters in a Badab Campaign where we could only use characters from the Badab books anyway. But it just irks me that they are pushing the big chapters in this way.

But no rule forces your Lamentors to use the <chapter> Lamentors, so like before when you used the Blood Angels codex nothing is stopping you now from using <chapter> Blood Angels.

"No they aren't Lamentors, they are just Blood Angels who have been punched in the fluff gut"

I'm really disapointed by some units, like the land speeders now so expensive (and no, they aren't more resilient now, I just used to keep them far away from my opponent, shooting krak missiles and heavy bolter rounds at tanks'flanks, and they survived most battles).

I'm looking forward new mechanics once the codex drops, too many things are just "put 1 mortal wound" .

But overall I'm pretty happy.

I find the random shots and random damage irritating. I wish they'd just decided on set values for each.

I don't get the cover and terrain rules. No terrain interacts with base movement?? Only being in terrain gives a cover save? You can't use screens anymore? No penalties for shooting through units?

I like most of the core rule changes except for vehicles (but I'll get use to it). It plays smoother and quicker.

I am pretty happy with what they did to my Tyranids. Much more playable. Should win some games with them now.

Annoyed they took away my looted wagons. "Use every model in your collection" my a**. My son and I have 6 looted wagons in our Ork force (yeah, we like to kit bash). For Father's Day today, he gave me a Hydra to loot. (Obviously gotten before yesterday when we saw the new rules). I hope there are rules for them when they drop the codex.

Awsome rules, more balance than before, cool narrative missions

As a space wolves player im annoyed that Wulfen dont give movement bonuses, and murderfang is so bad this edition. And my Terminators still feels overpriced and squishy with mortal and multi wounds flying around everywhere.

Regarding Tau, i think that its stupid Shadowsun can castle up and give her entire army rerolls for two whole turns, and drones that just flies in an negates a gak ton of damage through saviour protocols. Its insane! Typical GW, shooting is still GW's absolute favorite -.- Pretty bummed about that.

In my opinion:

The good -

I really like the save modifier system, big units that weaken as they take damage, and multiple damage weapons.

The bad -

I really, really hate the fact that anyone can just walk away from combat by falling back. It makes no sense thematically and seems broken from a gameplay perspective. How does it make sense for soldiers to just sit still and watch an enemy squad just walk away? I wish there was a test of some kind, or maybe extra movement for the squad that isn't running away, or mabye the squad that runs away suffers mortal wounds. something.

Yes, I know the squad that falls back can't charge or shoot (unless they actually can), but still, it seems dumb that, say, terminators can walk away from jump pack infantry just because.

The weird -

I'm not in love with the way the changed independent characters to characters, but it's fine. I believe the reason they did it was to reduce the prevalence of 'death stars', but what happens instead is that instead of characters buffing one unit, they have a buff aura, which can buff multiple units. So, if they intended to reduce death stars, I'm not sure they succeeded.

Also, the way the charge phase works can be weird. All movement is voluntary, so you can assault move to avoid enemy characters, and move in such a way that you can pile into additional units, that you can't fight, but they can fight you? There's some odd stuff you can do.

The dumb -

Custodes. Custodes are 100% dumb and broken. Nearly the same price as a terminator, but an extra wound, toughness, strength, 3+ invlun (for 5 points!), and basically a slightly weaker power fist that hits on 2s. The difference between str 5 and str 8 isn't much of a gulf anymore, especially when they get 4 attacks (with banner) and hit on 2s. A group of them will take a knight to pieces with little difficulty. I'd like to know who play tested them and thought they were in any way balanced.

My favorite improvement is losing templates. Way too much of a pain in the arse for a game like this.

I like dropping armor for vehicles. There will undoubtedly be tweaking of the rules as everyone adjusts, but the most important thing is that dreadnoughts finally can match their fluff, better than any edition dating back to 2nd.

Overall, the game seems like it will be more fun than it has been in a while. I'm also optimistic that a wider variety of models will be able to come off the shelves and actually see the table.

I haven't got a game in yet, but I've gone through the rules. I like the option of points an power levels, eventhough I plan on sticking with points. Power levels are a good idea to bring more players into the fold. The dice rolls seem much faster too with set numbers for rolls (for the most part), and the assault units seem to have a better chance in a fight. This works out well for me since I decided to expand my SWA GSC for 40k games, although with the barebones faction rules I think I ended up a bit late to the party.

There are some head scratchers though, mostly in regards to some of the wargear prices. I have some Acolytes that I am holding off on modeling incase a FAQ comes out within the week to change the cost of either Rock Saws or Rock Cutters (same stat line but Cutters can do more total wounds, and they are actually cheaper as well). I've only focused on GSC, but I bet other armies have similar inconsistencies.

Still cautiously optimistic about the new rules. I don't hate the Morale rules as much as I suspected I would, and melee combat is noticeably less fatal than I thought it would be (so far). I like the new weapon profiles (save mods, multi-damage) and cover modifying armor saves. I have noticed several situations where the ideal gameplay decision is also the fluffy one, and that makes me happy.

The faction keyword system means I could take an "Imperial" army, so I did for my intro game. (Only one so far, as I work at the FLGS, and was working yesterday.) My opponent played Tau, which I also own. Every time his units did something cool, we both celebrated.

Sisters of Battle are looking pretty good. I like their Acts of Faith better than the last version, and they seem to have a lot of potential. Also, Exorcists are as tough as a Leman Russ now!
AdMech is also pretty good, though I'm sad my robots and infiltrators got nerfed a bit. Tech Priest Dominus is still a nigh-unkillable horror, and traumatized the Crisis Commander quite gratifyingly.
Guard infantry are cheaper and some of their weapon options are really good now. I have a lot of missile and grenade launchers, and they both rock in this edition. Leman Russ tanks are VERY durable and relatively unchanged points-wise.
Space Marines have a lot of potential (even without Primaris taken into account), but I didn't have enough of them to really get a feel for them. Looking forward to Dreadnoughts not sucking again.
Tau are interesting. My friend used 48 fire warriors and 20 kroot, which would have been a near-certain loss last edition. Both impressed me, as did his Crisis suits. Stealth suits with their targeting matrix thingy are awesome.

 ProfViolence wrote:
I like most of the core rule changes except for vehicles (but I'll get use to it). It plays smoother and quicker.

I am pretty happy with what they did to my Tyranids. Much more playable. Should win some games with them now.

Annoyed they took away my looted wagons. "Use every model in your collection" my a**. My son and I have 6 looted wagons in our Ork force (yeah, we like to kit bash). For Father's Day today, he gave me a Hydra to loot. (Obviously gotten before yesterday when we saw the new rules). I hope there are rules for them when they drop the codex.

To be fair we didn't really get Looted Wagons last edition either, shoe horned White Dwarf rules don't count The way I'm choosing to look at it is like I gained 8 ard' case battle wagons

 Otto Weston wrote:
Disappointed; My entire IG army style/ theme was dragged outside, shot in the back of the head, burned with petroleum and dumped in an unmarked grave.

My entire idea was a Fortress Defence Force, a regiment specializing in anchoring a line/ holding a fortified area for as long as humanly possible.

To that end, I used Veterans as troops and gave them ALL camo cloaks and carapace armour (even in 7th, I know it wasn't points effective at all but it was my theme). 8th Edition fethed them over by removing Carapace and Camo Cloak options and salting the wounds by making them Elites instead of Troops.

7th Ed: 10x Veterans with Carapace Armour, Krak Grenades and Camo Cloaks = 95 pts (85 w/o the Krak)

8th Ed: 10x Scions with Carapace Armour, Krak Grenades and Hot Shot Lasgun = 100 pts.
(Use your Veterans as Scions, should only be a problem on tournaments unless you'r gaminggroup is full of asshats.)



Yes you might loose out on the camo cloaks, but in return you get a decent weapon. Hardly what I'd called getting dragged outside, shot in the head, burned and dumped in a unmarked grave.

I like 95% of all the changes to the game. There are some smaller things, like why didn't they make cover a -1 to hit instead of +1 to save for example, and others... But there is one major thing that I personally don't like and that is the rule about who is going first!

In 7th, if I knew I was second (bar a seize ofc) I could more or less counter deploy my opponent and get out of his fields of fire. Now in 8th, the player with the lesser amount of drops still has the advantage of placing units in the best possible spot facing their preferred targets and still get to shot with them first. Combine this with, in my opinion, much better possibilities of a decent alpha strike and the advantage becomes even greater.

I am aware that this view is tainted given my first two games with my new SM-army, the first against Tyranids and the second against Tau, but in both those matches, the game was over before I even had had my first turn. In the first game, there were so many first turn charges by big monsters that I could never really make a comeback and in the second Tau suits dropped down and took out all my long range fire power in one round of shooting. I know, one has to become better at countering deepstrikers with bubblewrappers now in 8th and there has to be a change in how terrain is built and set up on tables now that cover is more or less useless, but I still think that the You-go-I-go-deployment combined with an auto first turn is way too strong. I heard from Reecius during one of their live battles at Frontline gaming that they considered making it a +1 to go first for LVO in stead of just getting first turn.

So, that is what I am NOT liking about 8th

Got about 2 games under my belt.

I'm more looking forward to Codices because I want more customization back, but I'll be patient in the meantime. We did get awesome stuff in the Marine and CSM FW books, so my dual Carcharodons and Minotaurs force will keep me content in terms of fiddling with a list.

My complaints.

I had to sell my Demons - Losing access to a BRB psychic tree means my Space Wolves and Deathwatch can't summon them anymore.
Initiative is gone - What seperates the fast close combat units from the slow ones? Apparently the ability to take priority in activation regardless of charge priority, although slow dudes can take that right back on their commander's orders..."Because Stone Cold said so"?
Drop Pods can no longer carry Dreadnaughts - Because they don't wear harnesses and safety comes first in an Imperium that sacrifices people in every concievable way.
Psychic Powers - No longer random ipowers s nice but being limited down to a grand total of four powers sucks.
Deathwatch - Are still of no use to a Space Wolves army and still suck by their lonesome.
List building is a pain in the ass - can't wait until I finish making my list folders.
Flyers - Still suck.

Positives.

A lot of undercosted units have been pulled back in line.
Reserves is really part of the game now, giving up the ability to put more units in reserves in order to have total control over them was a real step forward in my humble.
Getting cover as a bonus to the armour save is neat, having different grades of cover would be nice.
Nids can use lists other than Flyrant Spam.
Guard are terrifying to more Codexes than just Space Wolves and Nids.
Troops work.

I'm enjoying it immensely. The rules are solid and enjoyable. Some odd things here and there but the game runs smoothly and feels like 40k still, which I like. I like the assault phase, and like the fact that my army can be melee oriented and still work well. Assault feels visceral and I enjoy it immensely.

I'm having to completely re-plan my army from the ground up, which isn't a bad thing I'll note, but it's certainly making me think about my painting queue and how I planned on building my list.

At present I've got the following for my Blood Angels:

-Jump Pack Captain w/ Relic Blade & Hanf Flamer
-Jump Pack Librarian w/ Force Stave & Bolt Pistol
-ChaplaLemartes (one of the winners in the special character department)
-Librarian Dread w/Heavy Flamer
-Mephiston (Partially Painted, another winner)
-Dante (Waiting to be painted)

-5 Man Tactical Squad, Heavy Flamer, Combiflamer, Lightning Claw
-5 Man Scout Squad, all Pistols & CCW's

-6 man Death Company w/ Jump Packs, one Power Fist & one Power Sword mixed in with Bolt Pistols & CCW's
-Company Champion w/ Jump Pack
-Sanguinary Novitiate (Apothecary) with Jump Pack
-3 man Company Veteran squad (formerly a command squad) w/ storm shields on all and one with a power fist.

-1 Drop Pod transport, and a second drop pod waiting to be assembled
-2 Rhino Transports. (In transit to me, arriving soon I hope)

I have also, to celebrate 8th edition, added a storm raven to the queue, to help with getting my assault units to the target more effectively. I'll be working on this model in earnest soon I hope later this week.

After that it's more tactical marines, death company, assault marines, and sanguinary guard + a sanguinary guard ancient.

Lots to do, lots to do.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Agusto wrote:
I heard from Reecius during one of their live battles at Frontline gaming that they considered making it a +1 to go first for LVO in stead of just getting first turn.

Both methods are close to the same, statistically. I go, you go has a lot of tactics to it. Placing last is certainly an advantage, just as moving last can be worth a vp. I do think placing models off board as a drop can be abused. They should count as drops, but only after on board models have been placed.