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So with all Craftworlders, Dark Eldar and Harlies having the <Aeldari> keyword, they can all be in the same detachments/army without needing to also be Ynnari.
Since I have played Eldar/DE since 4th ed, even modeling and painting them as 1 army even before "allies" was a thing, this is great for me.
Obviously, I was a fan of the Fracture of Biel-Tan.

But now that I don't have to use multiple detachments with minimum tax units just to field the ones I want, or take them in a Reborn Host, the appeal of Ynnari is not so strong.

So the question of this thread is, what units or combo of units make Ynnari 'work'?
Or are there some non-Ynnari units that really shine with Battle Focus, Power from Pain and Rising Crescendo?

For me, I really like Battle Focus on Shuricannon Bikes. I also plan on using a few Venoms, which do not benefit from either SfD nor PfP.
Same goes for my WK, which I'll still take despite the nerf.
So the units I want to use don't really care about being Ynnari, or would prefer to keep their normal abilities

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I feel that Yvraine is extremely powerful right now. Words of the phoenix is an amazing utility spell that is extremely reliable to cast (only need a 5 with the Gyriax) and hard to deny (due to range and 1+ to cast). Double move to get up the board, double shoot to due more damage than any other power. Ancestors grace is a great spell for an army full of 2+ and 3+ to hit. She is just pure win now.

I would take ynnari just for her, and because harlequins still need long range tank busters.

 lambsandlions wrote:
I feel that Yvraine is extremely powerful right now. Words of the phoenix is an amazing utility spell that is extremely reliable to cast (only need a 5 with the Gyriax) and hard to deny (due to range and 1+ to cast). Double move to get up the board, double shoot to due more damage than any other power. Ancestors grace is a great spell for an army full of 2+ and 3+ to hit. She is just pure win now.

I would take ynnari just for her, and because harlequins still need long range tank busters.

Yvraine is also a quick fix for some not-overly powerful units. Take Striking Scorpions, for example. Deep Strike+Word of the Phoenix movement=almost guaranteed alpha strike.

I'm contemplating a 1k harlequin army, and a 1k ynnari army that is shooting focused to complement the harlequin CC. Lots of raiders and scourges

Ynnari took a few big hits:
- Only infantry and bikers now get SftD
- ICs still provide a soulburst action when they die, but since they're not in units anymore and will almost always die last, it's harder to use them to provide soulbursts
- no more deep-strike + soulburst (because of range)
- Power from pain and rising crescendo are better now. Rising crescendo works on every turn (not just the 2nd), and now you can run and shoot assault weapons (pretty good for bikes, even if they're not the best units in the harlie dex). PfP is just straight up better.
- Revenant powers are only accessible to Yvraine and the Yncarne. And even if you could get farseers with words of the phoenix, you could only cast it once (assuming matched-play rules). So the best power by far got nerfed pretty bad.

One thing that's not really clear to me is how you become Ynnari. The rules talk about an "Ynnari army", but army isn't really defined in the book. I suppose the intent is that you have to go all-in on the Ynnari thing (all your Aeldari units have to become Ynnari, or none at all), but then can you still take one of the Ynnari special character in an otherwise non-Ynnari detachment?
If you could mix and match Ynnari with non-Ynnari, that would make them a lot better.

At first I thought Ynnari would be a no-brainer for Harlequins. But I came to realize that Rising crescendo helps a lot to get T1 charges (especially with bikes), which is obviously a huge thing.
Risings crescendo's usefulness also depends on another ruling that's unclear to me: if a starweaver falls back from combat, can the embarked units fire? The rules for open-topped transports explicitly say that the embarked units can't shoot, but it's said as an example of the fact that all the restrictions that would normally apply to the transports should apply to the models inside, and that the fly keyword isn't transfered to them. But harlequins can shoot after falling back, irrespectively of the fly keyword. If the final ruling is that players can shoot fusion pistols after a Starweaver falls back, it makes Rising Crescendo even more powerful for them, making Ynnari not very appealing to harlequins.

Just like in 7th, soulburst is better for shooting units. But you can't drop down with a WWP archon, blast something, and shoot again something else. Maybe the most reliable way to use it is with small units in the back, that shoot at long range, like dark reapers, or maybe trueborns with dark lances. But that's not enough to offset the disadvantages of going Ynnari.

But maybe we also need to think about new ways to build and play armies. Consider 4 barebone warlocks and 6 min units of kabalite warriors. That's 358 points and 6 CP, for 34 models and a good psychic presence. You could deploy them as a front line, and footslogg towards the enemy. As soon as a kabalite unit gets destroyed, you can soulburst to either shoot or reposition another unit. It provides very good screening against melee armies (and many Aeldari units can fly or move over models, so it's not too problematic for the Aeldari player), or they can be used to occupy the board and block deployment against DS heavy armies or GSC.
You could also take this setup in non-Ynnari armies now, but maybe the fear of triggering soulburts will make you opponent less likely to shoot these annoying kabalites off the board.

 DanielFM wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:
I feel that Yvraine is extremely powerful right now. Words of the phoenix is an amazing utility spell that is extremely reliable to cast (only need a 5 with the Gyriax) and hard to deny (due to range and 1+ to cast). Double move to get up the board, double shoot to due more damage than any other power. Ancestors grace is a great spell for an army full of 2+ and 3+ to hit. She is just pure win now.

I would take ynnari just for her, and because harlequins still need long range tank busters.

Yvraine is also a quick fix for some not-overly powerful units. Take Striking Scorpions, for example. Deep Strike+Word of the Phoenix movement=almost guaranteed alpha strike.

I really don't like striking scorpions. I think they are an ugly model and for 17 points 2 attacks with a s4 ap0 weapons kinda stinks. But scourge or swooping hawks double shooting the turn they drop down is good. Also just speed boosting reavers, starweavers, or shining spears is good.

Can Word of the Pheonix affect units that are Ynnari but don't have strength from death? Like War Walkers for example.

Two units that I think would be great to cast it on are Wraithguard with D-scythes or Dark Reapers. A blob of 10 Scythe Guard could be made to move and advance twice for a 10+ 2d6" move and still shoot. That's a 25" threat range, fortune and conceal would make them pretty tough. 10 Dark Reapers firing twice seems nasty too.

 lambsandlions wrote:

 DanielFM wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:
I feel that Yvraine is extremely powerful right now. Words of the phoenix is an amazing utility spell that is extremely reliable to cast (only need a 5 with the Gyriax) and hard to deny (due to range and 1+ to cast). Double move to get up the board, double shoot to due more damage than any other power. Ancestors grace is a great spell for an army full of 2+ and 3+ to hit. She is just pure win now.

I would take ynnari just for her, and because harlequins still need long range tank busters.

Yvraine is also a quick fix for some not-overly powerful units. Take Striking Scorpions, for example. Deep Strike+Word of the Phoenix movement=almost guaranteed alpha strike.

I really don't like striking scorpions. I think they are an ugly model and for 17 points 2 attacks with a s4 ap0 weapons kinda stinks. But scourge or swooping hawks double shooting the turn they drop down is good. Also just speed boosting reavers, starweavers, or shining spears is good.

I like the concept for them, but I don't love the models (and they aren't multipose plastic). I will solve that by converting Kabalite Warriors. It only helps that I will convert the (now useless) Visarch to be used as Karandras, so both units will fit nicely aesthetically.
They aren't great for their cost, but they have several things going for them. +1 to hit units in cover helps giving them a clear role as objective clearers. Throw in the mandiblasters and pistols and a sustained assault Biting Blade and they get decent offense.
It's true that other units may benefit more from WotF, but I really want to make Striking Scorpions work Scourges are also on my radar

The Enhance warlock power makes Scorpions Sustained Assault rule trigger on 5+. Something to consider at least.

I really don't like striking scorpions. I think they are an ugly model and for 17 points 2 attacks with a s4 ap0 weapons kinda stinks.

That's 19 since their swords cost extra points.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The Enhance warlock power makes Scorpions Sustained Assault rule trigger on 5+. Something to consider at least.

Add the bonus for attacking models in cover and you get extra attacks on 4+. Add Karandras aura and the whole unit (not only the Exarch) gets extra attacks on 4+. Yes, many points spent. Yes, not uber powerful. But cool nonetheless

Edit: Maybe this should be in the Aeldari general thread, maybe I will copy-paste later

I run some numbers of Striking Scorpions and a directly comparable unit, Tyranid Raveners.
Against a toughness 3, 5+ save in cover 6 Raveners (138 points) do 7,7 wounds on average.
Against the same unit a 5 SS unit (Exarch with Biting blade 107 points, with Chainsabres 111 points) do 7,71/8,25 wounds on average (pistols+mandiblasters+CC).

Not bad at all for a significantly cheaper unit! I know that may be an ideal scenario, but maybe it informs about the kind of target SS should pick.

Note: I didn't check survability due to laziness. Sunburst grenade wasn't included because in a deepstrike+charge scenario it can't reach the target.

I'm going to use Ynnari for my footslogging army. Movement values outside of transports are higher across the game, so Strength from Death movement is likewise better. I'm hoping Word of the Phoenix can be used on any Ynnari unit, as I'd like to be able to give an extra movement phase to large beast packs, wraithlords, and wraithknights.

In melee, getting two pile-in moves per fight phase makes fighting twice very appealing. I'll be looking forward to seeing how a rampant Solitaire or Lelith does with two fight phases.

Now that a venom costs about 8-9 Wyches, I'd like to see how large units on the ground do rather than small ones in transports. Each unit can be accompanied by a 7-point Razorwing Flock for a potential soulburst. If I declare a charge with the flock first, the enemy either kills it with overwatch, giving the Wyches an extra move for a consistent charge or an extra round of pistol shooting, or let the flock make it into combat, preventing overwatch fire on the Wyches. The idea is to replicate the strategy of getting out of a transport and charging with the transport first. I hope this works out as well as I think it might, if Wyches simply don't cut it like last edition this can be done with Harlequin Troupes as well.

Overall, my footslogging army is looking forward to this new edition. The movement profiles are great boons for Aeldari, with most units advancing 9-14" per turn. Most importantly, no more bleeping templates! You can really huddle a lot of small units together now to get them all within 6" for character auras and 7" for soulbursting.

I'm still not convinced to go Ynnari at all, despite taking a mix of units.
Shuricannons are clearly the best weapon for bikes and Advancing that 6" extra makes sure you can be in range of your target. If they are Ynnari, they'll lose that Battle focus
I'm aslo only taking the minimum 3 units of Kabalites for a Battalion and the rest of my <Druhkari> units are vehicles, so would not benefit from SfD

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Ynnari jetbikes still have Ride the Wind, they just have -1 to hit with their cannons after advancing. I guess it comes down to preference between not having a -1 modifier to hit or potentially getting to shoot twice. There are a lot of ways to boost or reroll hits, but shooting twice is a luxury. Battle Focus is more consistent, but Strength from Death has a higher potential payout for jetbikes. Again, personal preference.

 Galef wrote:
I'm still not convinced to go Ynnari at all, despite taking a mix of units.
Shuricannons are clearly the best weapon for bikes and Advancing that 6" extra makes sure you can be in range of your target. If they are Ynnari, they'll lose that Battle focus
I'm aslo only taking the minimum 3 units of Kabalites for a Battalion and the rest of my <Druhkari> units are vehicles, so would not benefit from SfD

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If you absolutely need the 6" of extra movement you can just take the -1 to your bs since they are assault weapons. It's a pretty small price to pay for SfD.
Your vehicles are getting nothing from power from pain. While they cannot soul burst themselves then can provide the opportunity for your other models to soul burst.

 coblen wrote:


If you absolutely need the 6" of extra movement you can just take the -1 to your bs since they are assault weapons. It's a pretty small price to pay for SfD.
Your vehicles are getting nothing from power from pain. While they cannot soul burst themselves then can provide the opportunity for your other models to soul burst.

Do we know how SfD and transports interact? If a transport is destroyed do the guys inside get to make a soul burst attack? Now that transports can assault it might be worth it to ram them into units during combat. If you have a starweaver full of harlequins or raider full of incubi they will most likely be shot down for the next turn for the troops to get out and assault. If you can soulburst off a vehicle you could ram the starweaver/raider into combat, if it does soulburst the unit inside into combat and get an attack or if the starweaver/raider doesn't die you now have an enemy unit that needs to fall back or be locked in combat. Maybe not the best way to waste 100+points of vehicle but worth it at times.

Also I think I understand how the new rules work but I am not 100%. If you soulburst and choose to charge you will then be selected to fight in the combat phase. You will be fighting first even if it is not your turn because you charged. If you destroy a unit in the combat phase and soulburst, choosing to charge you can be selected a second time to fight (as per the soulburst rule that units may shoot or fight twice in a turn). So you are able to soulburst from one combat to another and fight.

Well the great thing is that all I have to do to try out Ynnari is to just add the keyword. My list would not need to change at all.

Another bonus for me is that I plan on running multiple Autarchs to escort all my bikes. If a jetbike unit dies near them, they can Move out of danger and remain "not the closest target"

I guess it just comes down to play testing. Is a 16" move + 24" gun enough, or do I really need the extra 6" to get in range?
-1 to hit really isn't an option that is appealing, as I could just take Scatter lasers for that.
BS3+ with re-roll 1s from the Autarch are really reliable.


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So RAW, can word of the phoenix work on a ynnari vehicle? As far as i can tell, it just says make a soulburst action and the spell can target any ynnari unit within 18"

That's the clarification a lot of us are waiting for, there are a lot of Ynnari units that aren't Infantry or Bikers.

Neat little trick that surprised my opponent yesterday- My Yncarne was in the midst of a combat and finished off a unit. Rather than giving the Yncarne an extra Soulburst fight phase, I instead cast Word of the Phoenix on a unit far away from the fight and they got an extra move towards an objective that helped win me the game. With a Ynnari psyker, your potential choices for units that get to Soulburst is extended by the 18" range of Word of the Phoenix. Yay strategy!

Also I think I understand how the new rules work but I am not 100%. If you soulburst and choose to charge you will then be selected to fight in the combat phase. You will be fighting first even if it is not your turn because you charged. If you destroy a unit in the combat phase and soulburst, choosing to charge you can be selected a second time to fight (as per the soulburst rule that units may shoot or fight twice in a turn). So you are able to soulburst from one combat to another and fight.

I don't think that's how it works. A unit can only make a soulburst action once in a turn. In the above scenario if you charge after wiping out a unit you cannot then be chosen to fight; you can only fight twice if you are within 1" of an enemy unit and have not already done another soulburst action that turn. Charging in your opponent's turn is useful though.

Samii wrote:

Also I think I understand how the new rules work but I am not 100%. If you soulburst and choose to charge you will then be selected to fight in the combat phase. You will be fighting first even if it is not your turn because you charged. If you destroy a unit in the combat phase and soulburst, choosing to charge you can be selected a second time to fight (as per the soulburst rule that units may shoot or fight twice in a turn). So you are able to soulburst from one combat to another and fight.

I don't think that's how it works. A unit can only make a soulburst action once in a turn. In the above scenario if you charge after wiping out a unit you cannot then be chosen to fight; you can only fight twice if you are within 1" of an enemy unit and have not already done another soulburst action that turn. Charging in your opponent's turn is useful though.

I agree that you don't get to fight twice just because you charged again. Soulburst's note about how it may result in you fighting twice doesn't mean that you can fight twice at will -- if you use a Soulburst to move, and then later in the turn you charge, you just get to fight once. It's just saying that the Soulburst ability that lets a unit immediately fight is independent of the normal process for determining which units fight and doesn't count as "choosing a unit to fight" or whatever the restriction is on that in the Fight phase rules. Only the actual fight ability lets you fight twice.

However, note that there's no rule saying that units can't fight unless they're within 1". A unit can clearly use a Soulburst to immediately fight even if there is no enemy anywhere close by. In this case it's going to work a lot like the case where a unit charged but the unit it charged got wiped out before the charger got picked to fight -- it will somewhat often be the case that units fight despite not being within 1" in the ordinary course of the game. A fight simply starts with a pile in towards the closest enemy models, and then if they're a valid target (so, within 1" after the pile in and a target of your charge if you charged this turn) you can attack them. Regardless of whether any of your models were able to attack you'd then consolidate. So an Ynarri unit in the middle of nowhere could Soulburst to fight and then move 6" as long as each model ends each 3" leg closer to the closest enemy.

However, note that there's no rule saying that units can't fight unless they're within 1". A unit can clearly use a Soulburst to immediately fight even if there is no enemy anywhere close by. In this case it's going to work a lot like the case where a unit charged but the unit it charged got wiped out before the charger got picked to fight -- it will somewhat often be the case that units fight despite not being within 1" in the ordinary course of the game. A fight simply starts with a pile in towards the closest enemy models, and then if they're a valid target (so, within 1" after the pile in and a target of your charge if you charged this turn) you can attack them. Regardless of whether any of your models were able to attack you'd then consolidate. So an Ynarri unit in the middle of nowhere could Soulburst to fight and then move 6" as long as each model ends each 3" leg closer to the closest enemy.

Concerning the rule that states you can't target a unit that you haven't charged, in the preceding charge phase. There is some discussion of this RE Berserkers too. So, if you moved 3" and had no viable targets, then consolidate 3" more, why not have just used the 'Move' Soulburst ability instead? If the Soulbursted unit then ends up within and 1" of an enemy unit, can the enemy attack it, even if the Soulbursting unit could not attack them back? Perhaps you would do this because you would be trying to 'lock in' an enemy unit, to prevent them from shooting? I think people have mentioned this tactic regarding Berserkers also.

Samii wrote:

However, note that there's no rule saying that units can't fight unless they're within 1". A unit can clearly use a Soulburst to immediately fight even if there is no enemy anywhere close by. In this case it's going to work a lot like the case where a unit charged but the unit it charged got wiped out before the charger got picked to fight -- it will somewhat often be the case that units fight despite not being within 1" in the ordinary course of the game. A fight simply starts with a pile in towards the closest enemy models, and then if they're a valid target (so, within 1" after the pile in and a target of your charge if you charged this turn) you can attack them. Regardless of whether any of your models were able to attack you'd then consolidate. So an Ynarri unit in the middle of nowhere could Soulburst to fight and then move 6" as long as each model ends each 3" leg closer to the closest enemy.

Concerning the rule that states you can't target a unit that you haven't charged, in the preceding charge phase. There is some discussion of this RE Berserkers too. So, if you moved 3" and had no viable targets, then consolidate 3" more, why not have just used the 'Move' Soulburst ability instead? If the Soulbursted unit then ends up within and 1" of an enemy unit, can the enemy attack it, even if the Soulbursting unit could not attack them back? Perhaps you would do this because you would be trying to 'lock in' an enemy unit, to prevent them from shooting? I think people have mentioned this tactic regarding Berserkers also.

Yeah, the move Soulburst is probably always better if you're more than 7" away from anything -- I was just illustrating what the ability technically allows. Obviously this really shines when you're within 4" because you can pile in and then attack. But if you're within 7" I think it might often make sense to just move to lock something into combat. You might want to do this during the enemy's Shooting phase for a variety of reasons, during your own Fight phase to lock down a new enemy unit, or early in your turn so that you can pick a fight without eating Overwatch.

I think it's more-or-less clear that units can become eligible to fight over the course of the fight phase. If you kill something in a fight and then Soulburst to consolidate into something else, they'd get to attack. Just as if you'd been close enough to pile in and attack them instead.

If I end my movement phase within 3" of the enemy and then soulburst for any reason, can I choose fight and pile in putting myself in combat without charging so no overwatch?

 lambsandlions wrote:
If I end my movement phase within 3" of the enemy and then soulburst for any reason, can I choose fight and pile in putting myself in combat without charging so no overwatch?

Within 4", but, yeah, this seems to clearly be legal. It is obviously intended that sometimes units are able to fight despite not being within 1" of the enemy, and the fight rules themselves don't even put any restrictions on fighting -- they just say that chargers and within-1"ers can fight.

I'm not really sure how Soulburst is intended to work. It's worth noting that the Sisters' Acts of Faith do a lot of similar things but are generally more restrictive all around. Their insta-fight ability specifically says you can only do it if you're within 1".

Strength from Death is still absolutely incredible. Even with it only being half as effective as it used to be with 1 activation from 1 death, a good general can literally turn the tides of a game with it.

I am speaking from experience playing against it. Definitely better than the Eldar or DE variants, and you can still take more or less a mish mosh of all the units that you need. DE and Harlequin transports are both MUCH more durable than they used to be, but you don't really care because you get a guaranteed soulburst when it dies as long as the vehicle doesn't explode.

 luke1705 wrote:
DE and Harlequin transports are both MUCH more durable than they used to be, but you don't really care because you get a guaranteed soulburst when it dies as long as the vehicle doesn't explode.

That's also how I read it. When a transport is destroyed, you disembark before removing the model, so you can indeed soulburst after disembarking. But when it explodes, it's removed before you disembark, so no soulburst. That actually explains the rather weird ruling on 7th edition soulbursting.
That's assuming a unit is "completely destroyed" when the last model is removed from the table, and not when the last model reaches 0 wounds. I think it makes sense, especially with the word "completely", but I could see people argue about it.

Soulbursting out of destroyed transports is indeed pretty good, but not as much as in 7th. Most things you put in transports will want to be close to their target, so you need to have your transport die right in the opponent's face. But fast skimmers actually became slower (they could move + flat out for a total of 30", and now it's usually 22" or 16" + D6"), and Raiders lost their deep strike rule.

Ok, did not read every bit so sry if i dbl comment on some things.

Ynnari is strong, IMO stronger than Battle focus but not stronger than Rising Crescendo (i play DE and Harlequins). Ynnari has some units that are extremely strong in them here is a fast list.

Vehicles are still good, especially to get units like Incubi and Fire Dragons to there spots (tho i think Incubi are better as DE some like to take them IMO they are better as Ynnari than Troupes, if you play Harlequins just to them as them)

Some tips:
Warlocks are supper cheap and effective as a HQ's but a Farseer better, make sure to put them on Bikes. If you are bring the Yncarne tho, dont over do it with HQ points, a Farseer and Yncarne is extremely costly, i'd suggest either a Farseer and a cheaper HQ like Warlock or Yvraine, or the Yncarne and if you are higher points then a cheap HQ like a Warlock

Hemlock is AMAZING, just take it < Conceal on this bad boy is a good idea too (to bad you can only cast it once lol)

Units like Razorwing Flocks/Khymerae's will die, single units of 1 in front of Shuriken Bikes, use them to soak up over watch (to get a free shooting if they die) or to take damage.

Dark Reapers always need 3+ and are good against everything, just take them.
Fire Dragons are your large toughness 12+ wound killers, its common to do 18 wounds to 1 model, put them in a vehicle and in key places they will shoot 2x

Solitaire is good, b.c of the 12" movement and 2D6 with Blitz it is easy to get a turn 2 charge, you dont need Advance most the times with him and sense your 1st charge is a blitz you get 10 attacks, he should be able to consolidate or charge again, with a Caress and a Kiss that you can pick from he is very handy.

You can also take Harlequin bikes they are basically Shruiken Bikes but with a -1 to hit and a 4++, the Eldar ones are a bit cheaper but these can also do more melee damage, i would take 2 small 2man units just for counter charging from DS'ing or teleporting units, they are nice to have. Tho many mike like to Spam 2 units of 3 Shuriken bikes for more raw power.



Your lists will most likely be 2 Outrider Detachments almost if not completely full.

This is a Spam list!

Farseer on Windrider
Fire Dragons < Wave Serpent
Windrider x3, x3 Shuriken
Windrider x3, x3 Shuriken
Windrider x3, x3 Shuriken
Windrider x3, x3 Shuriken
Windrider x3, x3 Shuriken
Skyweaver x2, x2 Glaives
Hemlcok

Warlock on Windrider
Dark Reapers < Wave Serpent (doesnt go in just fly it around)
Solitaire
Razorflock
Razorflock
Razorflock
Razorflock
Razorflock
Skyweaver x2, x2 Glaives

Can you take an Avatar of Khaine in a Ynnari detatchment?

At first I thought you could because all units share the Aeldari faction keyword, but the Ynnari page says that in order to gain the Ynnari keyword on units they have to be in a Ynnari army, and you can't have an avatar in a Ynnari army. I think this also means you can't include it in the same army even if it's in a different detachment.

You can include him, he just doesnt give any bonuses to anyone else, and cant gain any bonuses from anyone else either.