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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/17/chapter-focus-raven-guard-july17gw-homepage-post-3/

That's a rather strong looking tactic. -1 To Hit on shooting attacks vs Raven Guard when you're 12" or more away.

Unique stratagems should be rather interesting too. Strike from the Shadows sounds real dirty. Spend some points to give units Deep Strike at the start of the game.
Edit: Deep Strike where they can move right after most likely, depending on how the wording on the actual Strategem is. Since it's "before the game begins" that'd lead me to believe you get your first movement phase.

Thats SERIOUSLY a nice trait, im gonna be real jelly if wolves just get counter attack

Sounds cool but really powerful, I worry that it will have unintended consequences though.

I see the intent as helping you get your Raven Guard tactical squads across the board for some fierce close range firefights and assaults.

Unfortunately people might just take tonnes of artillery as it would give you a big advantage in long range firefights which isn't very characteristic of the Raven Guard...

Well, I guess this probably means there'll be less complaining about the UM tactic. This is very strong.

They keep using language like "the purpose of this rule is to reward focused army building" which makes me hopeful that you only get the tactic if your whole army has the same <chapter> keyword. At the very least this has to mean you need a whole detachment, which while not very restrictive is at least something.

Edit: Strike from the Shadows is also a pretty gross alpha strike enabler. Basically every list needs screeners.

I'm definitely going to experiment with using different Chapter Tactics for my Primaris Army and see what works best. Since that Raven Guard trait is enough to make me not take Guilliman and Ultramarines tactic just to try it out.

So far they sure beat the hell out of rerolling various niche things. Characters and HQ's provide enough rerolls as is

 Kroem wrote:
Sounds cool but really powerful, I worry that it will have unintended consequences though.

I see the intent as helping you get your Raven Guard tactical squads across the board for some fierce close range firefights and assaults.

Unfortunately people might just take tonnes of artillery as it would give you a big advantage in long range firefights which isn't very characteristic of the Raven Guard...

Agreed, first thing i thought about was my SW Fellblade, she wants that trait so bad!

 Kroem wrote:
Sounds cool but really powerful, I worry that it will have unintended consequences though.

I see the intent as helping you get your Raven Guard tactical squads across the board for some fierce close range firefights and assaults.

Unfortunately people might just take tonnes of artillery as it would give you a big advantage in long range firefights which isn't very characteristic of the Raven Guard...

Actually, it is.

One of their Successor Chapters(Black Guard) were known to deploy massed batteries of Thunderfire Cannons and Vindicators to annihilate their enemies in an instant from careful ambushes.

That's in the previous C: SM. Page 90.

 Kroem wrote:
I worry that it will have unintended consequences though.

Like the fact that people are unlikely to take the UM tactic that everyone is getting very salty about?

One of their Successor Chapters(Black Guard) were known to deploy massed batteries of Thunderfire Cannons and Vindicators to annihilate their enemies in an instant from careful ambushes.

That's in the previous C: SM. Page 90.

Fair enough but that is a completely different chapter, successor chapters should have their own traits not just be lumped in with the first founding chapters imo.

This trait almost seems to have anti-synergy with the fast attack choices that you would commonly associate with the Raven Guard as they close to within 12" very quickly!

Like the fact that people are unlikely to take the UM tactic that everyone is getting very salty about?

well that sounds like a good thing :-p This tactic is less harsh on cool melee armies.

What artillery will matter? No vehicles gain the ability.

 Brutallica wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
Sounds cool but really powerful, I worry that it will have unintended consequences though.

I see the intent as helping you get your Raven Guard tactical squads across the board for some fierce close range firefights and assaults.

Unfortunately people might just take tonnes of artillery as it would give you a big advantage in long range firefights which isn't very characteristic of the Raven Guard...

Agreed, first thing i thought about was my SW Fellblade, she wants that trait so bad!

Fellblade? The super heavy that supposedly can't benefit from chapter tactics?

Ironically it looks like this Chapter Tactic will work better for runnung Raven Guard as a "Dreadbash" army rather than as a "sneaky scouts" army. What will be hilarious is hiding Rifledreads in cover, or smashing Ironclad Dreads into melee, stacking the Chapter Tactic with Smoke Launchers to get a turn of being functionally immune to Ork/Conscript shooting, or to be mostly safe from Plasma (since Overcharging would be a 1 in 2 chance of killing the firing model).

Call it the sneakiest Dreadbash ever.

 Brutallica wrote:
Thats SERIOUSLY a nice trait, im gonna be real jelly if wolves just get counter attack

Depends on how they rule counter-attack. If they say that SW units that are charged also count as charging, that would be a massive buff.

What artillery will matter? No vehicles gain the ability.

Ah I didn't know that, I can't read the article because I'm at work.

That is a lot better then!

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Ironically it looks like this Chapter Tactic will work better for runnung Raven Guard as a "Dreadbash" army rather than as a "sneaky scouts" army. What will be hilarious is hiding Rifledreads in cover, or smashing Ironclad Dreads into melee, stacking the Chapter Tactic with Smoke Launchers to get a turn of being functionally immune to Ork/Conscript shooting, or to be mostly safe from Plasma (since Overcharging would be a 1 in 2 chance of killing the firing model).

Call it the sneakiest Dreadbash ever.

That occurred to me as well. Will also work great with devastators with long-ranged weapons. I'm not quite convinced that this tactic will result the sort of play style they're aiming for.

Honestly, I think the biggest problem standing against people spamming Raven Guard now, is that their character is Shrike... and he looks wholly unimpressive.

That said, Primaris Lt's can hang out with Captains and together give something equivalent to the bubbles that you want the better characters for.

 Kroem wrote:

One of their Successor Chapters(Black Guard) were known to deploy massed batteries of Thunderfire Cannons and Vindicators to annihilate their enemies in an instant from careful ambushes.

That's in the previous C: SM. Page 90.

Fair enough but that is a completely different chapter, successor chapters should have their own traits not just be lumped in with the first founding chapters imo.

This trait almost seems to have anti-synergy with the fast attack choices that you would commonly associate with the Raven Guard as they close to within 12" very quickly!

But that's the rub. Raven Guard aren't all about the Fast Attack choices!.

They're ambush and guerilla warfare specialists. Their most common use of Assault/Vanguard Marines? It is to use jump troops to start off an ambush, which then retreat and lure the enemy into kill zones with Devastators, Dreadnoughts, the whole shebang.

Or alternatively, the jump troops get used in conjunction with veteran Scout Teams that find the enemy's commanders and mark them out for the jump troops to pinch them while the Scouts enact a diversion.


There is and always has been more to Raven Guard than "They're really good with jump packs". It's about damned time that it comes to the forefront.

 Imateria wrote:

 Brutallica wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
Sounds cool but really powerful, I worry that it will have unintended consequences though.

I see the intent as helping you get your Raven Guard tactical squads across the board for some fierce close range firefights and assaults.

Unfortunately people might just take tonnes of artillery as it would give you a big advantage in long range firefights which isn't very characteristic of the Raven Guard...

Agreed, first thing i thought about was my SW Fellblade, she wants that trait so bad!

Fellblade? The super heavy that supposedly can't benefit from chapter tactics?

Yes they can, they can be any Chapter, for example Raven Guard aswell. (they even FAQ'ed it to make sure there was no misunderstanding it)

 Brutallica wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Brutallica wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
Sounds cool but really powerful, I worry that it will have unintended consequences though.

I see the intent as helping you get your Raven Guard tactical squads across the board for some fierce close range firefights and assaults.

Unfortunately people might just take tonnes of artillery as it would give you a big advantage in long range firefights which isn't very characteristic of the Raven Guard...

Agreed, first thing i thought about was my SW Fellblade, she wants that trait so bad!

Fellblade? The super heavy that supposedly can't benefit from chapter tactics?

Yes they can, they can be any Chapter, for example Raven Guard aswell. (they even FAQ'ed it to make sure there was no misunderstanding it)

What he means is that only Infantry, Bikes, and Dreadnoughts get the chapter tactics. No tanks get it. It was said in the first article on Chapter Tactics and will be like that for all Marine Chapters.

 Kroem wrote:

One of their Successor Chapters(Black Guard) were known to deploy massed batteries of Thunderfire Cannons and Vindicators to annihilate their enemies in an instant from careful ambushes.

That's in the previous C: SM. Page 90.

Fair enough but that is a completely different chapter, successor chapters should have their own traits not just be lumped in with the first founding chapters imo.

This trait almost seems to have anti-synergy with the fast attack choices that you would commonly associate with the Raven Guard as they close to within 12" very quickly!

Like the fact that people are unlikely to take the UM tactic that everyone is getting very salty about?

well that sounds like a good thing :-p This tactic is less harsh on cool melee armies.

But that's the point. Black Guard ARE going to work with that Chapter Tactic, but so are tons of other builds. It's not like "mass artillery" is what every RG (successor) will have to do.
Their CT will work well with almost all SM army lists, unlike e.g. the UM one as that one's not going to work all that well for Melee builts.

There is and always has been more to Raven Guard than "They're really good with jump packs". It's about damned time that it comes to the forefront.

Ja true I don't want to see them be one dimensional either, however it is odd to have a trait that discourages them from taking some of their favoured units.

RG Devastators in cover will be a tough nut to crack. Going to have to go dig them out in melee...

ectoplastic wrote:

 Brutallica wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Brutallica wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
Sounds cool but really powerful, I worry that it will have unintended consequences though.

I see the intent as helping you get your Raven Guard tactical squads across the board for some fierce close range firefights and assaults.

Unfortunately people might just take tonnes of artillery as it would give you a big advantage in long range firefights which isn't very characteristic of the Raven Guard...

Agreed, first thing i thought about was my SW Fellblade, she wants that trait so bad!

Fellblade? The super heavy that supposedly can't benefit from chapter tactics?

Yes they can, they can be any Chapter, for example Raven Guard aswell. (they even FAQ'ed it to make sure there was no misunderstanding it)

What he means is that only Infantry, Bikes, and Dreadnoughts get the chapter tactics. No tanks get it. It was said in the first article on Chapter Tactics and will be like that for all Marine Chapters.

Aaaaah okay, i did not know that. Well that toned things down then.

 Kroem wrote:

There is and always has been more to Raven Guard than "They're really good with jump packs". It's about damned time that it comes to the forefront.

Ja true I don't want to see them be one dimensional either, however it is odd to have a trait that discourages them from taking some of their favoured units.

Shrike gives them bonuses.
They talked about Raven Guard Warlords having a trait available to them that prevents Overwatch as well.

 Kroem wrote:

There is and always has been more to Raven Guard than "They're really good with jump packs". It's about damned time that it comes to the forefront.

Ja true I don't want to see them be one dimensional either, however it is odd to have a trait that discourages them from taking some of their favoured units.

From the lore, the Raven Guard largely seem to use jump pack troops to counter-attack/supplement an ambush - this chapter tactic seems to supplement that, letting you husband your jump pack infantry with relatively greater safety and then pouncing on the enemy when he tries closing range with your forces to get within 12".

Will be interesting to see how the other chapter tactics pan out with the release of the Codex - I'm sure the internet will foam at the mouth with speculation about how this is the new brokenness and shows how GW is ruining civilization. Going to wait for the Codex release - coming this weekend (?) according to Naftka.

A lot of potent stuff in there for sure. I'm still a little shocked the Raven Guard even warrant special rules. The biggest thing to me in that whole article was the Reiver picture/info.

+They do get grav chutes --- i.e. deepstrike or whatever.
+Grapples? (ignore penalties charging into cover which reduces range? Maybe a simple re-roll charge/advance rolls?)
-No helmets visible in that picture so I'm still curious about the boxed set

Interesting. Still shocks me that Imperial Guard don't have a GW proper supported paratrooper option.

Seems pretty fair to me - this is probably a little better than the Ultra marine tactic but ultras have guilliman so it's still advantage ultras. Safe to say basically every army is going to have equivalent army wide rules once their codex come out. Except maybe the ones that already have them - Eldar/Necrons/ ect


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do we know for sure that tanks don't benefit?

RG flier spam just got realz,

 Elbows wrote:
A lot of potent stuff in there for sure. I'm still a little shocked the Raven Guard even warrant special rules. The biggest thing to me in that whole article was the Reiver picture/info.

+They do get grav chutes --- i.e. deepstrike or whatever.
+Grapples? (ignore penalties charging into cover which reduces range? Maybe a simple re-roll charge/advance rolls?)
-No helmets visible in that picture so I'm still curious about the boxed set

Interesting. Still shocks me that Imperial Guard don't have a GW proper supported paratrooper option.

We do. It's called Scions.

Also, Valkyries. Grav-Chutes are stashed in there for whatever units get to be lucky and be proper airborne.

Shrike as a Chapter Master to reroll hits and Stormravens with -2 to hit.

Awesome.

I'm hoping it's like last edition for just Infantry and Dreads.