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vaklor4 wrote: He may not be a cheater, but he is kind of a doofus for trying to argue his point in a highly condesending manner to authority figures
I can argue my police tickets if i think i was wrongfully accused, how is this any different?
A person has the write (or should and if they dont then i'm 100% boycotting that event) to defend themselves, especially in this type of environment with ambiguities.
Edit: I not for or against him, i'm just showing the TO's were completely unprofessional and he shouldnt be banned in doing so, there was huge amounts of disrepect for the players (not just him) and how they informed him (Publicly 1st) .
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/22 22:11:18
My call is that this game kind of sucks for competitive play. It’s way too complicated, no official markers, wound tokens, tracking just about anything is cumbersome, games take an age to play, so many fracking dice are rolled, not even the most dedicated players can keep up with the hundreds of special rules, inevitable mistakes, a serious and obvious lack of integrity and sportsmanship at high level events, blah blah blah. These people I keep watching in these streams seem to be having zero fun whatsoever.
I get that he cheated and that needs to be dealt with but I would find it alot more reasonable if they weren't making rules mistakes in their own statements on how he should have played.
They claim he cheated by using his 4 hammerheads during for the greater good.
His list is 3 hammerheads and longstrike.
Longstrike does have the FTGG rule and it applies to all weapons not just SMS like they claim.
The 3 hammer heads do not have FTGG at all and it applies to no weapons.
I would have supported their decision if they hadn't deleted his response. But the fact that they removed his reply (that imo seemed relevant, for example, him bumping the riptide about a centimeter that couldnt have really affected the outcome of the game at all and looked like an accident) makes me side with him a bit more. IMO this is a last-ditch effort to make people forget the terrible press the tournament is getting.I can't imagine anyone that's not a local player in London traveling for that type of a mess of a tournament. If i had spent money on plane tickets i would have lost my
For those who are behind a corp firewall or just don't like reddit:
Spoiler:
Text copied from their Facebook post:
LGT 2018 Invitational Final between Alex Harrison and Geoff Robinson
On Saturday, 19.05.2018 and Sunday, 20.05.2018, the LGT 40k Invitational Final took place between Alex Harrison and Geoff Robinson. It was a tense affair. It was late in the evening, both players were tired and had just played each other in the 40kGT just before and it was the final of a major competition, aired across the world on live stream. Also, because of the closing time of the venue, the players had to be hurried, which only added to the pressure. Accordingly, they both made honest mistakes that were retrospectively corrected, and we let them finish the final the following day so that they had enough time.
However, upon reviewing the recorded footage of the game, we have reached the conclusion that Alex did not just make honest mistakes; he appears to have engaged in player misconduct at various points during the game. (Please see examples below)
The LGT takes a zero-tolerance approach to this and has decided to ban Alex from future LGT events,]..
We would like to take this opportunity to apologise to Geoff Robinson, who ultimately won the Invitational Final, and to all the viewers that tuned in. This type of behaviour cannot and will not be tolerated at the LGT.
3.) Lying to trade out objective cards - 32:41 draws objective cards 45:20 doesn't discard or declare the intention to discard objectives: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/263408718?t=00h45m16s 51:40 he lies and said he did discard one and said he would discard one: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/263408718?t=00h51m26s - Geoff calls him out on it but then lets him cheat anyway/gives him the benefit of the doubt.
4.) Implying models are within a certain range, getting called out, measuring it incorrectly, and getting called out on that: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/263217667?t=00h24m27s Cheater was so bold as to say "I pre-measured it so if it is stightly out I'll just nudge my model forward." Geoff didn't let it slide since the model was a full ~2" out of range.
5.) The biggest was very possibly unintentional, but Alex mis-represented the "For the Greater Good" overwatch rules and used it on not just his 4 HH's SMS, but the tanks as well (very end of part 1 video). This was caught by the judges overnight and corrected, thank goodness as it made a huge difference. Alex likely mis-used this rule to his benefit in his previous 6 games in the tournament.
6.) I can't tell if a 3 or 5 was actually rolled due to lighting, but the dice was likely obstructed from Geoff's point of view and Alex said it was a 5, Geoff said no, it was a 3, and asked him to reroll it: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/263408718?t=00h12m21s
Apologies that this needed to be made public, but for the good of this new community we are trying to create, I think it is worth making this post.
So, let’s start with the event:
3 Games Friday, 4 games Saturday, 2.5 games Sunday. Yes I ended up playing pretty much all weekend. I didn’t have hardly any time to get any food or drink (que for the food was jokes, let alone the costs or the food itself).
After making it to the Invitational final, I was informed that is will be held on Saturday evening at 8pm, ok fine that will be a late one but acceptable. However, in the morning we can’t even get into the venue. This pushes back timings by about an hour and a half. Luckily I finished my previous game early, so when I went to play the invitational game I was told we would have about an hour and a half.
Onto the game itself. Now I had just played Geoff, it was a chilled out game and tight game. The invitational game felt a bit more tense and we were both tired and stressed. Both of us made mistakes which we each rectified between ourselves. However, as the game was streamed, there are the backseat generals who need to have their say. Lets look at the footage and answer the accusations.
So that was me. Out of the entire footage, it has been picked apart minute by minute to see if I made any mistakes. This stinks of someone out there trying to find a way to smear me but ok. If someone were to do this to my opponent, I’d feel terrible for them. Geoff was a great guy and a pleasure to play against, even if it was a little salty the night before, I understand we were both tired and stressed. He attempted to re-roll using his relic twice, he messed up his re-draw of his cards, he tried using his custodies stratagem to draw a new card from a card he had drawn a turn previously, moved some models too far etc. but you know what? I know none of it was intentional because mistakes…happen. I would never call him up for it because we are all privy to it. We forget things, we mess things up. But none of it constitutes cheating. If there was any player that can safely say they have never done the above accidently then ill eat my hat. But because It is the top table, lots of people sat at home with 10 hours sleep and a full belly, they can spot all the “mistakes” and assume its cheating. Sad to see the event organisers point their pinky at me publicly without discussing it first. If anyone genuinely believes that I wanted to cheat my way to beating Geoff infront of hundreds and intentionaly steal the game then please have a good think about it. Why on earth would I try that when it’s recorded. Having been nailed to the cross before, I really don’t think I’d be clever to cheat on live TV. But hey, if it makes you sleep at night then fair enough. Wish the event would consider its own faults before throwing me under the car.
Now let's all review EVERY streamed game and ban others shall we ?
Half of it seems like nitpicking, but some seems sketchy. I'll review the footage before I make a big opinion.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
Seems pretty trivial for a lifetime ban. He didn’t appear to do anything other than play a little sloppy. Sure, I’d call him out on each point, too, just what what happened. But 40k isn’t a sport, players aren’t athletes, and that venue was not conducive to a good experience of gaming. Seems like overkill for something minor.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
jeffersonian000 wrote: Seems pretty trivial for a lifetime ban. He didn’t appear to do anything other than play a little sloppy. Sure, I’d call him out on each point, too, just what what happened. But 40k isn’t a sport, players aren’t athletes, and that venue was not conducive to a good experience of gaming. Seems like overkill for something minor.
SJ
The punishment might actually be saving him a lot of future frustration. I'm not sure who would ever want to go to a tournament run like that again, a lifetime ban seems like a nice excuse when someone is trying to convince you to go because they don't remember how awful it was the previous year.
Yeah cheating is bad but deleting responses, bans, tiredness mistakes. Yeah models get bumped, dice can get knocked. Mistakes do happen, they can also be attempts to cheat. But at times it's just word vs word.
Its all just a storm in a tea cup.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
vaklor4 wrote: He may not be a cheater, but he is kind of a doofus for trying to argue his point in a highly condesending manner to authority figures
I can argue my police tickets if i think i was wrongfully accused, how is this any different?
A person has the write (or should and if they dont then i'm 100% boycotting that event) to defend themselves, especially in this type of environment with ambiguities.
Edit: I not for or against him, i'm just showing the TO's were completely unprofessional and he shouldnt be banned in doing so, there was huge amounts of disrepect for the players (not just him) and how they informed him (Publicly 1st) .
If I call the judge a loser I can expect to be held in contempt of court....
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
I don't care either way. What I do think is that it's a direct result of the LGTs poor planning and organization combined with trying to play a non-competitive game competitively. If the player in question wasn't rushed and had had a proper nights sleep (don't think we don't know how much drinking gets done after these events) there would be less chance of his actions being able to be blamed on being tired.
I feel like banned for life is a massive over reaction. When a player was caught cheating in the Warmachine WTC a few years back they were only banned from the following years tournament. I guess the LGT committee are worried about losing GWs support so they took and overly hard stance on the issue.
However I do hope it serves as a lesson to others that clean play and good sportsmanship are much better to practice than dodgy measurements and wound tracker fiddling.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 22:39:45
Yeah cheating is bad but deleting responses, bans, tiredness mistakes. Yeah models get bumped, dice can get knocked. Mistakes do happen, they can also be attempts to cheat. But at times it's just word vs word.
Its all just a storm in a tea cup.
Well from the pictures the tables had about a foot of clearance from other tables/walls/players so I'm not surprised if people were bumping terrain and models all weekend on accident and it seemed like all the games were very rushed because of all the delays and confusion.
vaklor4 wrote: He may not be a cheater, but he is kind of a doofus for trying to argue his point in a highly condesending manner to authority figures
I can argue my police tickets if i think i was wrongfully accused, how is this any different?
A person has the write (or should and if they dont then i'm 100% boycotting that event) to defend themselves, especially in this type of environment with ambiguities.
Edit: I not for or against him, i'm just showing the TO's were completely unprofessional and he shouldnt be banned in doing so, there was huge amounts of disrepect for the players (not just him) and how they informed him (Publicly 1st) .
If I call the judge a loser I can expect to be held in contempt of court....
I didnt see him say Loser at all, i came in late tho with his "Proper response" so did he say it int he deleted post? Maybe he deleted b.c he was typing out of anger and then rewrote it?
PS: I read it on facebook with his actual post not reddit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 22:42:55
vaklor4 wrote: He may not be a cheater, but he is kind of a doofus for trying to argue his point in a highly condesending manner to authority figures
I can argue my police tickets if i think i was wrongfully accused, how is this any different?
A person has the write (or should and if they dont then i'm 100% boycotting that event) to defend themselves, especially in this type of environment with ambiguities.
Edit: I not for or against him, i'm just showing the TO's were completely unprofessional and he shouldnt be banned in doing so, there was huge amounts of disrepect for the players (not just him) and how they informed him (Publicly 1st) .
You have every right as a human to defend yourself. But don't expect to be greeted warmly when you use rude language and generally act unprofessional. It wasn't right for them to delete his post, but he post was anything but friendly, or even just respectful. And it was the TO, not himself that deleted it from my understanding.
And I also have to agree with Sim-life. The guy admitted to basically getting no sleep what so ever because he decided to go a little too hard. That's not an excuse when getting pulled over while driving, it's not an excuse at the work place, it's not an excuse during a school test, it's basically not an excuse anywhere. You're a grown man, drown yourself in coffee or energy drinks, or just don't attend. If you're in no shape to compete, then take that L.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/22 22:46:49
Sim-Life wrote: I don't care either way. What I do think is that it's a direct result of the LGTs poor planning and organization combined with trying to play a non-competitive game competitively. If the player in question wasn't rushed and had had a proper nights sleep (don't think we don't know how much drinking gets done after these events) there would be less chance of his actions being able to be blamed on being tired.
I feel like banned for life is a massive over reaction. When a player was caught cheating in the Warmachine WTC a few years back they were only banned from the following years tournament. I guess the LGT committee are worried about losing GWs support so they took and overly hard stance on the issue.
However I do hope it serves as a lesson to others that clean play and good sportsmanship are much better to practice than dodgy measurements and wound tracker fiddling.
Are you really suggesting that choosing to go out drinking in between events at a major international competitive event excuses you from the consequences of your resulting sloppy play?
Sim-Life wrote: I don't care either way. What I do think is that it's a direct result of the LGTs poor planning and organization combined with trying to play a non-competitive game competitively. If the player in question wasn't rushed and had had a proper nights sleep (don't think we don't know how much drinking gets done after these events) there would be less chance of his actions being able to be blamed on being tired.
I feel like banned for life is a massive over reaction. When a player was caught cheating in the Warmachine WTC a few years back they were only banned from the following years tournament. I guess the LGT committee are worried about losing GWs support so they took and overly hard stance on the issue.
However I do hope it serves as a lesson to others that clean play and good sportsmanship are much better to practice than dodgy measurements and wound tracker fiddling.
Are you really suggesting that choosing to go out drinking in between events at a major international competitive event excuses you from the consequences of your resulting sloppy play?
No? I'm saying exactly the opposite of that. The player himself is saying that. He's claiming he only had 3 hours of sleep which I can only imagine is because he got drunk after the venue closed which isn't uncommon for players at big tournaments.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 22:51:32
Sim-Life wrote: I don't care either way. What I do think is that it's a direct result of the LGTs poor planning and organization combined with trying to play a non-competitive game competitively. If the player in question wasn't rushed and had had a proper nights sleep (don't think we don't know how much drinking gets done after these events) there would be less chance of his actions being able to be blamed on being tired.
I feel like banned for life is a massive over reaction. When a player was caught cheating in the Warmachine WTC a few years back they were only banned from the following years tournament. I guess the LGT committee are worried about losing GWs support so they took and overly hard stance on the issue.
However I do hope it serves as a lesson to others that clean play and good sportsmanship are much better to practice than dodgy measurements and wound tracker fiddling.
Are you really suggesting that choosing to go out drinking in between events at a major international competitive event excuses you from the consequences of your resulting sloppy play?
I think thats just a side point of his. From the photos and reviews I've read
1. games started late because of poor organization so game length was cut down (causing you to rush)
2. Tables were poorly marked or not marked at all causing delays and more rushed games
3. There was one overpriced food stand with 2 employees for 400+ people so many people didn't get to eat the whole day as they confiscated food brought into the even and there was no time with previous mentioned delays
4. Tables had almost no space between them and no seats so people were on their feet all day despite all the previous issues
Im sure every game at the end of this show was sloppy and filled with mistakes
vaklor4 wrote: He may not be a cheater, but he is kind of a doofus for trying to argue his point in a highly condesending manner to authority figures
I can argue my police tickets if i think i was wrongfully accused, how is this any different?
A person has the write (or should and if they dont then i'm 100% boycotting that event) to defend themselves, especially in this type of environment with ambiguities.
Edit: I not for or against him, i'm just showing the TO's were completely unprofessional and he shouldnt be banned in doing so, there was huge amounts of disrepect for the players (not just him) and how they informed him (Publicly 1st) .
You have every right as a human to defend yourself. But don't expect to be greeted warmly when you use rude language and generally act unprofessional. It wasn't right for them to delete his post, but he post was anything but friendly, or even just respectful. And it was the TO, not himself that deleted it from my understanding.
And I also have to agree with Sim-life. The guy admitted to basically getting no sleep what so ever because he decided to go a little too hard. That's not an excuse when getting pulled over while driving, it's not an excuse at the work place, it's not an excuse during a school test, it's basically not an excuse anywhere. You're a grown man, drown yourself in coffee or energy drinks, or just don't attend. If you're in no shape to compete, then take that L.
You didnt get what i said, i said i didnt see him say anything bad and asked you if the deleted post was bad. B.c the post i read was professional, you can tell he is mad but nothing that i wouldnt say or even to a judge.
This is the response that i read
Spoiler:
Proper reply (big post)
Apologies that this needed to be made public, but for the good of this new community we are trying to create, I think it is worth making this post.
So, let’s start with the event:
3 Games Friday, 4 games Saturday, 2.5 games Sunday. Yes I ended up playing pretty much all weekend. I didn’t have hardly any time to get any food or drink (que for the food was jokes, let alone the costs or the food itself).
After making it to the Invitational final, I was informed that is will be held on Saturday evening at 8pm, ok fine that will be a late one but acceptable. However, in the morning we can’t even get into the venue. This pushes back timings by about an hour and a half. Luckily I finished my previous game early, so when I went to play the invitational game I was told we would have about an hour and a half.
Onto the game itself. Now I had just played Geoff, it was a chilled out game and tight game. The invitational game felt a bit more tense and we were both tired and stressed. Both of us made mistakes which we each rectified between ourselves. However, as the game was streamed, there are the backseat generals who need to have their say. Lets look at the footage and answer the accusations.
1) I apparently knock my Hammerhead forwards slightly with my water cup. So, IF this was intentional (which it was not) what has this gained me? I have nothing INFRONT to overwatch? We learned that the Hammerhead can’t overwatch (more on that later) so what does this gain me? His shield captain flew to the left right next to the hammerhead, so what am I cheating here? It baffles me that this is a thing, models get knocked throughout the event but you gotta watch out for those water cups, they are dangerous!
2) Wound counter. I clearly pick up the dice of the wound counter (unintentional), and notice it missing later on. I assumed he had 3 wounds, but in fact it was 5. We resolve it and move on. But this is classed as cheating? I can see why people think that I have intentionally “attempted” to gain an advantage, so fair point. However, I had killed the captain 3 times previous and I assumed he had less wounds than he had. Mix this with 4 hours sleep and a tense game, I made a booboo. Did it effect the game? No because it was pointed out and I apologised and moved on.
3) “Lieng” to draw cards. Now Geoff forgot to draw cards in our previous game. I reminded him numerous times and when he forgot to discard I said its cool just do it. This is called a gentleman’s agreement. I may have forgotten to declare but the intention was there. I was fethed. I could barely stand and yet this is cheating, really? How many times has a player forgotten to discard a card then ask if its ok to go back or said the intention was to obviously discard the card? It’s a gentleman’s agreement as I said. Geoff was kind enough to continue with this, as it really isn’t a big deal. Im allowed to discard and re-draw, ok it wasn’t exactly the right moment, but this doesn’t constitute cheating. I was tired, I forgot and I was stressed. I didn’t have any breakfast, so I made a blunder which had 0 impact on the game.
4) This one is actually weird. I pre-measured something, from my angle its in (I don’t lean in as I really am tired at this point), assume im in, he checks it, im out. Ok cool, no big deal. Move on. I think this happens in every game of 40k anyone has played?
5) The Hammerheads was on me. I played them wrong, which we went back and re-did. I had no idea they didn’t have FTGG, the drones do instead which wasn’t clear when we checked during the game. We both looked at the rule when it was brought up and didn’t notice. I was approached by almost every Tau player at the event and even they had no idea. Genuine mistake which we went back on.
6) Dice…now this one actually makes me laugh. The dice in question has a marble effect. I did not “Quickly” pick the dice up, it was there and Geoff stood staring at them, I went to pick it up whilst looking at him and said 2 hits. He then said no it’s a 3, I was a bit baffled as it was clear to me it was a 5 so showed him. The dice was white splatter on a red dice with white pips so I can see why Geoff may have assumed it was a 3. He says it wss definitely a 3 so I said ok and I re-rolled it. Literally no effect on the game. If I was trying to cheat, why on EARTH would I be trying to gain a marker token (my last marker token) to get a 2nd hit? You do realise the 2nd hit effects only seeker missiles, which I have none of? I have no idea why on earth I would need to gain such a useless advantage. Did that effect the game? Nope.
So that was me. Out of the entire footage, it has been picked apart minute by minute to see if I made any mistakes. This stinks of someone out there trying to find a way to smear me but ok. If someone were to do this to my opponent, I’d feel terrible for them. Geoff was a great guy and a pleasure to play against, even if it was a little salty the night before, I understand we were both tired and stressed. He attempted to re-roll using his relic twice, he messed up his re-draw of his cards, he tried using his custodies stratagem to draw a new card from a card he had drawn a turn previously, moved some models too far etc. but you know what? I know none of it was intentional because mistakes…happen. I would never call him up for it because we are all privy to it. We forget things, we mess things up. But none of it constitutes cheating. If there was any player that can safely say they have never done the above accidently then ill eat my hat. But because It is the top table, lots of people sat at home with 10 hours sleep and a full belly, they can spot all the “mistakes” and assume its cheating. Sad to see the event organisers point their pinky at me publicly without discussing it first. If anyone genuinely believes that I wanted to cheat my way to beating Geoff infront of hundreds and intentionaly steal the game then please have a good think about it. Why on earth would I try that when it’s recorded. Having been nailed to the cross before, I really don’t think I’d be clever to cheat on live TV. But hey, if it makes you sleep at night then fair enough. Wish the event would consider its own faults before throwing me under the car.
Now let's all review EVERY streamed game and ban others shall we ?
The thing with the water glass was pretty shocking. Hammerheads are pretty massive and heavy models (almost the size of Land Raiders) and it takes quite some weight and pressure to push them around (when I accidently brush against them with my hand while playing, the only thing that happens is that they start spinning because I didn't glue them on their flying base, their weight keeps the base in place), it's pretty impossible to push them that far in one direction like in the stream without intent.
Also the last thing you do with a massive water mug is get it anywhere near your plastic models with all the flimsy parts that can break, fall over and the resulting risk of liquid getting over them or simply moving by accident. What happens is that his mug is in the way, the other player moves it out of the way. Alex does the thing any sensible player would do, move it over to the other side of the table and put it down where it isn't in the way. However in the last moment he lifts the mug up again, moves it all the way to the other hand across half the table edge and then hits the nose of the Hammerhead with it. Then he puts it somewhere close by at the table edge in fron of him where the mug is much more at risk and in the way than the spot he first wanted to place it. Heck, there is even so much pressure aplplied that you can hear a pretty loud 'clack' sound when he bounces the glass straight against the nose of the tank in the direction he wants to push it, like you would hit a billiard ball when playing snooker.
No idea what his idea was, close the space to prevent the Custodes biker from moving there? Guarantee For the Greater Good overwatch range? But it looks intentional for sure, especially if you replay the scene several times.
And that's before looking at the wound counter and objective card shenigans.
If it was one or two things you could call it accidential, but so many? In my experience players that want to cheat don't do it in a big, instantly game winning fashion (unless you leave the table without supervision, then models, objectives and counters might end up moving around quite a bit), but usually do lots of small things that you might not notice and then try to get away with it (often by then trying to exploit the good will of the other guy when they do get caught and called out), like throwing dice too fast for your opponent to see, accidentially brush against models to move them or knock them over and then moving them slightly more (or up to 2-3") in a more favourable direction, calling out wrong ranges and then arguing that "the models totally were in range before" when you catch them rather than saying "really? 3" too far away? Seems like I screwed up when calculating the range before, nevermind" or changing wound counters slightly, particularly for their own models.
And seriously, claiming that he discarded an objective card only 5 minutes after he drew it and didn't discard any (it's not like that happened after a slow-moving 30 minutes turn) really raises red flags, not to mention that his first response after the ban was to both claim all of those coincidences being either mistakes or accidents, then to proceed to accuse the other player of cheating in pure whataboutism style. That literally screams "That guy" to me.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/05/22 23:17:28
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
Mixed view really.
The question comes down to whether its accidental mistakes or wilful attempts to cheat. The accused is right that some of things don't obviously benefit him significantly - but they are looking for a pattern of behaviour. Was he playing in the proper sportsmanlike way or not?
I don't think it can really be argued that a fair amount of micro cheating often occurs in tournaments. There always has been in 40k. "That Guy" will always argue distances, forget rules, or remember them wrong and when called out on it go "oh its just a mistake" etc. I know some people get to tournaments and have 5+ great games with great people - but plenty of us can surely relate to experiencing that. I mean I can relate because I was that guy for a long time before getting over it.
I don't know this guy - but I assume if he is playing Geoff he is moving towards whatever the equivalent is of professional 40k play. This isn't therefore a guy who plays a game once every 3-6 months and can reasonably argue the rules are all a bit hazy.
Look, at such a tounament... why would you cheat? You've gotten further than 99% of the people who play. You are being watched. Why would you get so far, just to become the most reviled and humiliated player on the planet?
Look, at such a tounament... why would you cheat? You've gotten further than 99% of the people who play. You are being watched. Why would you get so far, just to become the most reviled and humiliated player on the planet?
MUST. WIN .TOURNAMENT. Especially if you are in the finale of a grand tournament. Some of the "that guy"s take winning VERY seriously, especially at a high stakes, high prestige event (from a promotion standpoint, rather than what turned out to be rather shoddy execution), especially if it might even get you publicity through GWs own community channels. And it seems likely that he didn't know that the game was being streamed/recorded or forgot it after all the previous matches.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 23:11:33
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
MUST. WIN .TOURNAMENT. Especially if you are in the finale of a grand tournament. Some of the "that guy"s take winning VERY seriously, especially at a high stakes, high prestige event (from a promotion standpoint, rather than what turned out to be rather shoddy execution), especially if it might even get you publicity through GWs own community channels. And it seems likely that he didn't know that the game was being streamed/recorded or forgot it after all the previous matches.
I can't see it worth risking that kind of humiliation. Because if I lose a 'big tournament', oh well- I got to a big tournament and that's more than the overwhelming majority of people playing competitively can ever hope to achieve. If I cheat, I become a scumbag for the rest of my life and I'm little more than a guy who cheated at a game of little plastic soldiers. On camera, like an idiot.
Then again, I'm the sort of guy that believes once you start cheating the game is... not a thing any more. Does that make sense? Sort of like pretending a prostitute is a real girlfriend, I guess. Fake, you know.
MUST. WIN .TOURNAMENT. Especially if you are in the finale of a grand tournament. Some of the "that guy"s take winning VERY seriously, especially at a high stakes, high prestige event (from a promotion standpoint, rather than what turned out to be rather shoddy execution), especially if it might even get you publicity through GWs own community channels. And it seems likely that he didn't know that the game was being streamed/recorded or forgot it after all the previous matches.
I can't see it worth risking that kind of humiliation. Because if I lose a 'big tournament', oh well- I got to a big tournament and that's more than the overwhelming majority of people playing competitively can ever hope to achieve. If I cheat, I become a scumbag for the rest of my life and I'm little more than a guy who cheated at a game of little plastic soldiers. On camera, like an idiot.
Then again, I'm the sort of guy that believes once you start cheating the game is... not a thing any more. Does that make sense? Sort of like pretending a prostitute is a real girlfriend, I guess. Fake, you know.
I'm with you there, but I'm not really surprised to be honest. I played against two players of that kind before (most miserable games I ever had) and one was an obscure, super-low stakes, minor regional tournament where the top trophy was a golden Black Reach Dreadnought, the other was just a regular friendly game. Some people NEED the kick of winning that badly that they are willing to cheat for it, trying to influence the game into their favour by many small tricks and cheats, seemingly compulsively like a cleptomaniac would try to steal completely worthless things out of an impulse.
And the way many of those super competitive players try to stand in the spotlight online for internet-fame (heck, I know at least one top US player that even makes money writing lists for people thanks to his pedigree), I'm not surprised if winning a grand tournament in London of all places has a massive attraction to those people that want to win and all the endorphines resulting from that and the resulting 'fame', including potential world wide shoutouts from the GW social media.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/05/22 23:30:40
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
Ragnar Blackmane wrote: I'm not surprised if winning a grand tournament in London of all places has a massive attraction to those people that want to win and all the endorphines resulting from that and the resulting 'fame'.
Maybe that's where I find the alien part of it. I don't like the idea of 'fame', I don't want everyone to know me, I don't like being the center of attention. I won one actual tournament in my entire life, and I asked if we could use the prize money for Chick-Fil-A.
Maybe I've just never seen any prize for playing Toy Space Soldiers as being worth my integrity as a player.
I don't care about the specifics of the stream game and what constitutes cheating. I haven't watched and have no opinion. However it is crucial context that he has a reputation. He was caught 'cheating' on stream at the South Coast GT last year (may have got the dates wrong) and has been dq'd in other events before IIRC. Previous attempts at changing his behaviour through discretion does not appear to have worked.
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