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As the title says, I feel the elites section of the IG codex is incredibly crowded and some of the choices to be more along the lines of meh-lites.

It would give a good hq choice for smaller games where you might not necessarily want a company commander or lord commissar as your leader.

The rule could even follow on as some sort of chain of command where if there is no company commander in your list then platoon commanders become a hq choice.

Any other units in codices you feel don’t belong in the slot they currently are. I’d like to hear some opinions.

Really a 30 HQ isn't enough of a micky take you want to gice Astra Millicheese a 20point HQ for 160 point battalions.

 HANZERtank wrote:
As the title says, I feel the elites section of the IG codex is incredibly crowded and some of the choices to be more along the lines of meh-lites.

It would give a good hq choice for smaller games where you might not necessarily want a company commander or lord commissar as your leader.

The rule could even follow on as some sort of chain of command where if there is no company commander in your list then platoon commanders become a hq choice.

NOPE!

You want this to be more "appropriate"? Go talk to GW. They used to be called Junior Officers(Platoon level) and Senior Officers(Company Commanders).

Ice_can wrote:
Really a 30 HQ isn't enough of a micky take you want to gice Astra Millicheese a 20point HQ for 160 point battalions.

Platoon commanders are 20 point HQ choices in the Death Korps codex and nobody is calling that broken.

I actually agree with the OP. The fact that company commanders are only 10 points more expensive, get an extra order, more wounds, higher leadership, AND take up HQ slots (that are mostly taxes for IG) just make platoon commanders kind of useless in comparison.

Then again I'm one of those "insane" people who think infantry squads should be 50 points base. (But only if sergeants get lasguns).

w1zard wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Really a 30 HQ isn't enough of a micky take you want to gice Astra Millicheese a 20point HQ for 160 point battalions.

Platoon commanders are 20 point HQ choices in the Death Korps codex and nobody is calling that broken.

I actually agree with the OP. The fact that company commanders are only 10 points more expensive, get an extra order, more wounds, higher leadership, AND take up HQ slots (that are mostly taxes for IG) just make platoon commanders kind of useless in comparison.

Then again I'm one of those "insane" people who think infantry squads should be 50 points base. (But only if sergeants get lasguns).

*gasp* I'm one of those people too!

Tho as far as the HQ thing goes, the rule of three can make Guard armies clunky, since they usually require 5+ HQs. Also, consider that other factions generally have cheaper versions of their main HQs (marines have captains and lieutenants for example).

It would be interesting to see AM turned into an army that's starved of HQ slots - as in, AM being the only army in the game that NEEDS to take a Supreme Command detachment to stay competitive. Put all of the officers in the HQ section and who you select as the HQ will determine how your army plays.

w1zard wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Really a 30 HQ isn't enough of a micky take you want to gice Astra Millicheese a 20point HQ for 160 point battalions.

Platoon commanders are 20 point HQ choices in the Death Korps codex and nobody is calling that broken.

I actually agree with the OP. The fact that company commanders are only 10 points more expensive, get an extra order, more wounds, higher leadership, AND take up HQ slots (that are mostly taxes for IG) just make platoon commanders kind of useless in comparison.

Then again I'm one of those "insane" people who think infantry squads should be 50 points base. (But only if sergeants get lasguns).

DKoK are totally different to Astra Militarum as your paying 50 for the infantry squads your also not able to pair them down to 9 man units to prevent your opponents scoring VP's in turnaments.

If you up infantry squads to a base price of 50 points then fine, but just making the mandatory guard CP farm cheaper is making the already broken even better is not a good thing for balance.

w1zard wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Really a 30 HQ isn't enough of a micky take you want to gice Astra Millicheese a 20point HQ for 160 point battalions.

Platoon commanders are 20 point HQ choices in the Death Korps codex and nobody is calling that broken.

I actually agree with the OP. The fact that company commanders are only 10 points more expensive, get an extra order, more wounds, higher leadership, AND take up HQ slots (that are mostly taxes for IG) just make platoon commanders kind of useless in comparison.

Then again I'm one of those "insane" people who think infantry squads should be 50 points base. (But only if sergeants get lasguns).

Brigade fillers. Remove platoon commanders from elite and you end up with lot more expensive brigades. Or weaker. You have to take either lot more expensive or worse elite choices.

Hard freaking no.

Guard are already cheesy when it comes to batalion spam, to the point it's almost standard to take a 200 point batalion detatchment.

We are enot making it easier.

Ice_can wrote:

DKoK are totally different to Astra Militarum as your paying 50 for the infantry squads your also not able to pair them down to 9 man units to prevent your opponents scoring VP's in turnaments.

If you up infantry squads to a base price of 50 points then fine, but just making the mandatory guard CP farm cheaper is making the already broken even better is not a good thing for balance.

I like how guard gets punished for other armies abusing the CP mechanics.

w1zard wrote:

I like how guard gets punished for other armies abusing the CP mechanics.

This is reason number 2 why soup is bad, it gets a lot of hate pointed at the enabling faction, which can result in changes that end up punishing non-soup players.

Reason number 1 is of course that it is unbalanced, favoring Imperial factions outrageously above Xenos and leading to incredibly powerful interactions which may not have been anticipated or appropriately costed.

I play astra Militarum and even I think that's a really bad idea.

If you can't find space to fit your big guns into a 500pts list with 320pts spare, then you can always find other choices to take or remove a commander to run a Patrol detatchment with 350pts for big stuff.

You want more, play bigger games. Call me cynical, but this change seems more "WAAC" than actual reasoning.

 Dr. Mills wrote:
I play astra Militarum and even I think that's a really bad idea.

If you can't find space to fit your big guns into a 500pts list with 320pts spare, then you can always find other choices to take or remove a commander to run a Patrol detatchment with 350pts for big stuff.

You want more, play bigger games. Call me cynical, but this change seems more "WAAC" than actual reasoning.

10 extra points isn't going to get you much. It's also a way of viably running a REAL platoon instead of every Imperial Guard list being overseen by a company or regimental level commander.

w1zard wrote:

10 extra points isn't going to get you much. It's also a way of viably running a REAL platoon instead of every Imperial Guard list being overseen by a company or regimental level commander.

If that's what you want much better solution remove Infantry squad from tge troop section and replace with infantry platoon,

An Astra Militarum infantry platoon is made up of a platoon commander and 2 infantry squads.

Change it so that conscripts and scions can only be taken 1 per platoon. Makes guards 4ppm guardsmen a smidge less broken than they currently are and you can have as many platoons as you want.

And I guess those that want to play a full Scion list can just suck, right?

 Bobthehero wrote:
And I guess those that want to play a full Scion list can just suck, right?

Yeap. The most CP a pure MT list can generate is now 10 - battalion + vanguard + air wing.

You still can make a pure Mt list, but you're going to have to jam in a few extra flyers for 2k army.

 Bobthehero wrote:
And I guess those that want to play a full Scion list can just suck, right?

Well you lot havn't been punished for plasma drop spam so aye.

But in all seriousness Astramilitarum does need some of its CP farm cheapness raining in, how that's done I have no idea but one player is demanding cheaper HQ's and platoons and the CP farm definataly shouldn't be getting cheaper.

 skchsan wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
And I guess those that want to play a full Scion list can just suck, right?

Yeap. The most CP a pure MT list can generate is now 10 - battalion + vanguard + air wing.

You still can make a pure Mt list, but you're going to have to jam in a few extra flyers for 2k army.

I am fine with having flyers in my Scion army, not fine with having Guardsmen in it, I got my other army for that.

I do find it a bit un-fluffy that IG armies have a bunch of Company Commanders, and no platoon commanders, as that's just how the army list works - yet seeing an army with a ton of senior officers and no Junior officers just looks wrong.

I'd like something like:

Platoon Commanders may be taken as a HQ choice in a Patrol, Vanguard or Spearhead Detachment, but only if there are no other OFFICERs in the same detachment.
Additionally, for every Company Commander you take in any Detachment, you may include 2-3 Platoon Commanders as a single HQ choice, if you do this, you may not take any Platoon Commanders as Elite choices in the same detachment.

 Kcalehc wrote:
I do find it a bit un-fluffy that IG armies have a bunch of Company Commanders, and no platoon commanders, as that's just how the army list works - yet seeing an army with a ton of senior officers and no Junior officers just looks wrong.

It's literally because of the fact that a few iterations ago, they changed from "Senior" and "Junior" Officers as titles for the different types and instead just called them Company and Platoon Commanders.

Don't like it? Write to GW about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bobthehero wrote:
And I guess those that want to play a full Scion list can just suck, right?

I've been thinking about this for awhile and think it would be a nice bit for Tempestors to get removed from the Scion Squad and instead get put as an Elite choice.

A Scion army could then be:
-Tempestor Primes for HQ
-Tempestors and Scion Command Squads as Elites
-Scions(now just a flat 10 Scion models) as Troops
-Taurox Primes to round it out

I've been kicking around an idea for a kind of Scion "heavy support" slot in the form of Scion Artillery Observers--lone Scions that can call in artillery barrages(use Master of Ordinance rules) and come equipped with hellguns as standard.

w1zard wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Really a 30 HQ isn't enough of a micky take you want to gice Astra Millicheese a 20point HQ for 160 point battalions.

Platoon commanders are 20 point HQ choices in the Death Korps codex and nobody is calling that broken.

To be fair the DKoK list as a whole is also largely garbage next to both the IG codex list and Index, 8E is the fifth edition to carry on this trend

I don't understand why, for 10 points, a person still wouldn't take Company Commanders.

And if you need more HQ's to fill out FOC requirements, then it doesn't hurt to run a couple Primaris or Lord Commissars, or Tank Commanders.

I mean, Between 3x Company Commanders and 3x Tank Commanders, you'd be playing at least 2000 points to need that many HQ, if you aren't just simply CP farming with no in-game capability.

I dunno, I just wouldn't use Platoon Commanders when the obviously superior Company Commander exists.

IG can have Platoon Commanders as HQ along with a 1 per Detachment limit on Company Commanders.

Bite your tongue, good sir!

tneva82 wrote:

w1zard wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Really a 30 HQ isn't enough of a micky take you want to gice Astra Millicheese a 20point HQ for 160 point battalions.

Platoon commanders are 20 point HQ choices in the Death Korps codex and nobody is calling that broken.

I actually agree with the OP. The fact that company commanders are only 10 points more expensive, get an extra order, more wounds, higher leadership, AND take up HQ slots (that are mostly taxes for IG) just make platoon commanders kind of useless in comparison.

Then again I'm one of those "insane" people who think infantry squads should be 50 points base. (But only if sergeants get lasguns).

Brigade fillers. Remove platoon commanders from elite and you end up with lot more expensive brigades. Or weaker. You have to take either lot more expensive or worse elite choices.

This pretty much.

Bring back platoons! If you had to take a Platoon Commander and Two Squads for every Troop Choice it would do a lot to hinder Battery Battalions.

Platoons are constructed from troops.
So...platoon commanders should be troops right?
Simple

ValentineGames wrote:
Platoons are constructed from troops.
So...platoon commanders should be troops right?
Simple

Because 120 Point Battalions should be a thing.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
Platoons are constructed from troops.
So...platoon commanders should be troops right?
Simple

Because 120 Point Battalions should be a thing.

I don't get it sorry. Battalions are 300-800 soldiers

ValentineGames wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
Platoons are constructed from troops.
So...platoon commanders should be troops right?
Simple

Because 120 Point Battalions should be a thing.

I don't get it sorry. Battalions are 300-800 soldiers

When he says "Battalion", he's obviously referring to the force organizational chart.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Bring back platoons! If you had to take a Platoon Commander and Two Squads for every Troop Choice it would do a lot to hinder Battery Battalions.

It really wouldn't. Also platoons were super irritating to build around before and good riddance to them.