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I am curious what ever happened to Shadow Wars Armageddon? How come it wasn't supported? Yes I know there is Kill Team coming out soon, but I am curious how come SW:A was never continued. Was it always suppose to be a one and done? I thought they were going to keep continuing it. If so, how come it was stopped.

Just curious that is all.

It was probably just intended as one-off to sell some terrain, but people liked it so much that GW decided to write a new game based on the idea, hence the Killteam.

Seems it was just a stopgap release before 8E. GW has said they will support KT for multiple years in a way they never committed to for SWA.

So it was a one time thing then. Good to know. Thank you guys.

Davor wrote:
So it was a one time thing then. Good to know. Thank you guys.

Though even if all you had was the shadow wars set you can just get the kill team rulebook and be 100% usable. Not sure if that softens any concern.

 buddha wrote:

Davor wrote:
So it was a one time thing then. Good to know. Thank you guys.

Though even if all you had was the shadow wars set you can just get the kill team rulebook and be 100% usable. Not sure if that softens any concern.

Davos plays Grey Knights and is probably just looking for formats wherein they're viable.

 Marmatag wrote:

 buddha wrote:

Davor wrote:
So it was a one time thing then. Good to know. Thank you guys.

Though even if all you had was the shadow wars set you can just get the kill team rulebook and be 100% usable. Not sure if that softens any concern.

Davos plays Grey Knights and is probably just looking for formats wherein they're viable.

Humm, in that case get Matt Ward and play 5th edition Dex.

I doubt GK with buffs they lost from 5e would be viable in the context of 8th.

It was a really quick hackjob mini-rules set which was really just used to launch the new Sector Mechanicus terrain line. They produced 10,000 copies, sold them all in like two days and then released a printed book (I think).

It was before 8th if I recall, so it died immediately thereafter. It's now being replaced by Kill Team, which is also launching a new line of terrain - however it appears they may actually support Kill Team. Time will tell.

 Marmatag wrote:

 buddha wrote:

Davor wrote:
So it was a one time thing then. Good to know. Thank you guys.

Though even if all you had was the shadow wars set you can just get the kill team rulebook and be 100% usable. Not sure if that softens any concern.

Davos plays Grey Knights and is probably just looking for formats wherein they're viable.

I dunno, they might be. Elite units with good wargear are much cheaper in KT than 40k (I don't know the GK point costs offhand but a Rubric Marine with a warpflamer is 20 points in KT where its 33 points in 40k, for example), and power armored units in general get a pretty good rule where you ignore the penalties from the first flesh wound you take. Plus they're the best psychic army by default given they're the only army that can take multiple psykers (the only other army that gets psykers is Thousand Sons and you can only take one Aspiring Sorcerer).

8ed happened.

I get the impression it was more or less a market test. Necromunda has too many unique models to have been created in response to it, but it feels like they wanted to test the waters with something after 7th Kill Team got a lot of attention first. I'm almost curious if they're just trying out different levels of skirmish commitment before figuring out exactly how best to support a skirmish line.

Turns out it was just another of those pretend games that are really just an elaborate way to package a discounted box of plastic, like Burning of Prospero or Overkill.

Spoiler: So is Kill Team, but with the added bonus of "support" in the form of old plastic being bundled with new rules.

SWA is in the same place as Kill-Team will be in one year: Buried and forgotten.

 Elbows wrote:
It was a really quick hackjob mini-rules set which was really just used to launch the new Sector Mechanicus terrain line. They produced 10,000 copies, sold them all in like two days and then released a printed book (I think).

It was before 8th if I recall, so it died immediately thereafter. It's now being replaced by Kill Team, which is also launching a new line of terrain - however it appears they may actually support Kill Team. Time will tell.

Two days? Shadow Wars: Armageddon was sould out in the GW's website 10 minutes after going online

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Turns out it was just another of those pretend games that are really just an elaborate way to package a discounted box of plastic, like Burning of Prospero or Overkill.

Spoiler: So is Kill Team, but with the added bonus of "support" in the form of old plastic being bundled with new rules.

Yeah, Kill Team is being dissapointing at least for me, but the Rogue Trader expansion can change that. I'll wait and see how the game goes. Just give me a 40k's Mordheim, GW!

 Strg Alt wrote:
SWA is in the same place as Kill-Team will be in one year: Buried and forgotten.

They've promised retailers 18 months of support - the next two packs are already on the Kill Team site (Astra Militarum & Tyranids), plus another scenery pack (Sector Munitorum). Plus we all know about Rogue Trader by now.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 buddha wrote:

Davor wrote:
So it was a one time thing then. Good to know. Thank you guys.

Though even if all you had was the shadow wars set you can just get the kill team rulebook and be 100% usable. Not sure if that softens any concern.

Davos plays Grey Knights and is probably just looking for formats wherein they're viable.

I dunno, they might be. Elite units with good wargear are much cheaper in KT than 40k (I don't know the GK point costs offhand but a Rubric Marine with a warpflamer is 20 points in KT where its 33 points in 40k, for example), and power armored units in general get a pretty good rule where you ignore the penalties from the first flesh wound you take. Plus they're the best psychic army by default given they're the only army that can take multiple psykers (the only other army that gets psykers is Thousand Sons and you can only take one Aspiring Sorcerer).

You can still only cast Psybolt 1 time per turn, so GK don't scale in kill team either.

beast_gts wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
SWA is in the same place as Kill-Team will be in one year: Buried and forgotten.

They've promised retailers 18 months of support - the next two packs are already on the Kill Team site (Astra Militarum & Tyranids), plus another scenery pack (Sector Munitorum). Plus we all know about Rogue Trader by now.

Besides Rogue Trader, which is kinda its own thing, all the "support" we've seen so far is literally one pack of tactics cards stretched out between a few hundred pounds' worth of boxes of old models.


What's going on is GW is testing to see if you'll buy 6 tactics cards for 37,50 GBP if they throw in a 14-year old Genestealer sprue that cost them nothing to produce. Woe unto us if it works.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
SWA is in the same place as Kill-Team will be in one year: Buried and forgotten.

They've promised retailers 18 months of support - the next two packs are already on the Kill Team site (Astra Militarum & Tyranids), plus another scenery pack (Sector Munitorum). Plus we all know about Rogue Trader by now.

Besides Rogue Trader, which is kinda its own thing, all the "support" we've seen so far is literally one pack of tactics cards stretched out between a few hundred pounds' worth of boxes of old models.

What's going on is GW is testing to see if you'll buy 6 tactics cards for 37,50 GBP if they throw in a 14-year old Genestealer sprue that cost them nothing to produce. Woe unto us if it works.

What would you like to see them do?

 Marmatag wrote:
You can still only cast Psybolt 1 time per turn, so GK don't scale in kill team either.

Are you sure about that? The only restriction I see is that a psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same power multiple times. Nothing preventing a different psyker from manifesting that power.

beast_gts wrote:
What would you like to see them do?

I would like to see a real Third Main Game. One that isn't a throwaway system written over a coffee break one day to sell a 40k army bundle and one that doesn't rely on exploiting addictive personalities to get sales. A game that fosters a healthy playerbase (and corresponding sales numbers) by being an actually good game to play and by having real long-term support in the form of new releases, FAQs, organized play...

Betwen SWA, Necromunda and Kill Team, it's blatantly obvious that GW is not dedicated to properly supporting a 40k skirmish game even in the mid-term. They're just throwing random gak at us and testing the minimum amount of effort required to make a quick sale.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
What would you like to see them do?

I would like to see a real Third Main Game. One that isn't a throwaway system written over a coffee break one day to sell a 40k army bundle and one that doesn't rely on exploiting addictive personalities to get sales. A game that fosters a healthy playerbase (and corresponding sales numbers) by being an actually good game to play and by having real long-term support in the form of new releases, FAQs, organized play...

Betwen SWA, Necromunda and Kill Team, it's blatantly obvious that GW is not dedicated to properly supporting a 40k skirmish game even in the mid-term. They're just throwing random gak at us and testing the minimum amount of effort required to make a quick sale.

In other words, you don't have any concrete ideas and just want to complain.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
In other words, you don't have any concrete ideas and just want to complain.

In other words, you don't have a counter argument but what I've said still triggers you.

A part of me hopes for one possible outcome of KT, but I shall admit I am skeptical it will ever come to this.

I hope that if killteam succeeds it will incentivize them to make some of the older resin kits into plastics such as the Craftworld Rangers.

Again, I doubt it will come to this.

SW:A was a mis-step from GW, unfortunately.

It was a very low cost/low effort test of the market to see if anyone gave a damn about skirmish level 40k games before making any commitment to it. All they created for the game was a rule book, and even that was basically a reprint. Everything else was existing product.

Also, they had committed to releasing 8th and were in a total sales dead spot, so it was a thing to keep cash coming in while everyone held their breath over 8th ed.


The problem is twofold:
- one, that the product looked like it might be a new game system but to GW was only ever going to be a a "one and done" thing. This meant the people who were MOST keen to play skirmish 40k have had their fingers burnt and are now suspicious that it might happen again.

- two, that the demand was so big that it created a sense of frustration from people who couldn't get their hands on it. This brought way more attention to the product than I think they ever intended.


I think GW would have been much happier if it sold quickly and quietly so they could say "yep, there's a demand - let's put some effort into this" without having the bad feeling that came out of SW:A


They have specifically stated that this new Kill Team is going to be supported properly. Clarly if nobody buys it then that changes, but I think there's a fairly bright future for this over the next couple of years.



But yeah if you bought Shadow Wars and aren't happy that you just got some nice terrain... then you flat out wasted your money, which sucks.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
In other words, you don't have any concrete ideas and just want to complain.

In other words, you don't have a counter argument but what I've said still triggers you.

When your only answer to "what do you want" is "I want something good!", then I think it's fair to say you lack concrete ideas.

I've looked at the Kill Team rules and already have some things I like (the new Reanimation Protocols is far more strong and interesting than its 8th counterpart) and don't like (not being able to get higher tier specialists in matched play is very disappointing). I can say with some confidence that you haven't seen the rules, because if you did you might have something more constructive to add to the conversation than an ill-defined dream of an ideal.

 Silentz wrote:

They have specifically stated that this new Kill Team is going to be supported properly. Clarly if nobody buys it then that changes, but I think there's a fairly bright future for this over the next couple of years.

It's not just SWA, there's also Necromunda. A re-release and full rewrite of a fan favorite, also said to be "supported properly" but what ended up happening was a game that was shaved down to the minimum of what can even be called a game and required a day 1 expansion just to be playable in the same way as the original, with a slow trickle of 1 faction every 3 months (consisting of a single tiny sprue), each accompanied by a book that is all but mandatory for play but only has a few pages of new content and the rest is endless reprints of the same weapon profiles and skills over and over, with a few random typos introduced here and there just to keep things fresh and confusing, while obvious mistakes are copy/pasted from book to book. Certain non-functioning rules make it obvious that nobody at GW has ever physically put models on the table and played the game. It's a telltale example of GW relying entirely on nostalgia and addictive personality disorders for sales of a product they put zero effort in (apart from the sculptors, of course... hat off to them).

After getting burned twice, I'd be crazy to jump into this based on more empty promises of a balanced and supported game.

Same goes for Adeptus Titanicus of course.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
What would you like to see them do?

I would like to see a real Third Main Game. One that isn't a throwaway system written over a coffee break one day to sell a 40k army bundle and one that doesn't rely on exploiting addictive personalities to get sales. A game that fosters a healthy playerbase (and corresponding sales numbers) by being an actually good game to play and by having real long-term support in the form of new releases, FAQs, organized play...

Betwen SWA, Necromunda and Kill Team, it's blatantly obvious that GW is not dedicated to properly supporting a 40k skirmish game even in the mid-term. They're just throwing random gak at us and testing the minimum amount of effort required to make a quick sale.

Well, GW once had a third REAL main game. It was lotr but with how bad they treated the Hobbit-releases they tried really hard to kill it.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
What would you like to see them do?

I would like to see a real Third Main Game. One that isn't a throwaway system written over a coffee break one day to sell a 40k army bundle and one that doesn't rely on exploiting addictive personalities to get sales. A game that fosters a healthy playerbase (and corresponding sales numbers) by being an actually good game to play and by having real long-term support in the form of new releases, FAQs, organized play...

Betwen SWA, Necromunda and Kill Team, it's blatantly obvious that GW is not dedicated to properly supporting a 40k skirmish game even in the mid-term. They're just throwing random gak at us and testing the minimum amount of effort required to make a quick sale.

I was going to say "so you're after Shadespire for 40K", but I guess that Shadespire fails the "exploiting addictive personalities" point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Well, GW once had a third REAL main game. It was lotr but with how bad they treated the Hobbit-releases they tried really hard to kill it.

Hopefully "Pelennor Fields" gets things back on track.

Davor wrote:
what ever happened to Shadow Wars Armageddon?

It came true. You’re looking at it.