Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2012/07/21 01:31:07
Subject: The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (Completed)
Both SabrX and I wanted to try out some new, funky lists. This is also our first foray into allies and ironically, we both brought in Orks!
SabrX's battlesuits were on vacation, so the lone Shas'el who overslept and missed his flight was forced to defend his home turf with some kroot and ork mercenaries when a Warp Gate suddenly opened up nearby to allow my Nurgle army into this dimension. Upon arriving, the first denizens to greet Papa Nurgle were a bunch of gretchins out collecting garbage when all of a sudden, more filth poured onto their planet. The terrified, weak-willed grots were quickly corrupted and then sacrificed to the Greater Disease. So without the firepower of the Tau, the Shas'el and his Ork Allies brace themselves for the Chaos incursion.
This was a fun game to try out some of those wacky combos out there. I saw some synergy between my Daemonic army and Orks as did my opponent with his Tau and Orks. I also wanted to experiment with the so-called Daemon Flying Circus. SabrX, on the other hand, wanted to experiment with the powerhouse that is Nob Bikers. He never really ran a deathstar army before so he was just itching to see what the new and improved bikers can do...when backed by 172 guys!
2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Kroot-Ork Horde
2K Daemons
As this is the very first time I am running Nurgle daemons, I had to use a few proxies. The daemonettes are actually plaguebearers and the scarab swarm are nurglings.
Epidemius
Kairos Fateweaver (Warlord)
Big Mek - Bosspole
Daemon Prince - 3+, Daemonic Flight, Mark of Nurgle, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Aura of Decay
Daemon Prince - 3+, Daemonic Flight, Mark of Nurgle, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Breath of Chaos
Daemon Prince - 3+, Daemonic Flight, Mark of Nurgle, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Breath of Chaos
2K Tau
At the time of the game, SabrX did not get his Nob Bikers in yet, so we will be proxying my Fiends of Slaanesh as the nob bikers (and biker warboss).
Shas'el - Flamer, TL-Missile Pod, BSF (Warlord)
Warboss - Warbike, Power Klaw, Bosspole, Attack Squig, Cybork Body
The way 6th edition works is that you win by having more Victory Points (VP's) than your opponent. The ways you can get VP's are:
Objectives - Worth 3 VP's each
Slay the Warlord - Each person has to nominate his highest LDHQ to be his Warlord. If you can kill that Warlord, then you get 1 VP.
First Blood - The first person to kill 1 enemy unit gets 1 VP.
Linebreaker - If you have at least 1 scoring or denial unit in the enemy deployment zone at the end of the game, you get 1 VP.
Mysterious Objectives - We rolled for objectives and got 4 objectives. Each objective has a special rule to be determined whenever a unit comes within 3" of it.
Night-Fighting - There is a possibility of Night-fight on Turns 1 or starting on Turns 5+. Night-fight now works differently than it used to in 5th ed.
Fast Recon - Also, all Fast Attack units are scoring! They are also worth 1 VP each when killed.
Deployment: Vanguard Strike
Basically, this deployment is like the 5th Edition Pitched Battle, only you deploy diagonally from corner to corner.
I can see what the Daemons are going for because I have read the forum post for that list (thx for posting the link so everyone knows what you are upto going into the game), but what is SabrX doing !!???!!????
I am really looking forward to this battle report!
- 4000
- 1500 6th ed codex: 2 wins, 1 loss, 0 draws
2012/07/21 10:30:05
Subject: Re:The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (w/Nob Bikers)
Deamons: First off, let me explain my list for those who don't understand it. Basically, the power of the Nurgle list lies with Epidemius. He has this special power called the Tally of Pestilence that affects all Nurgle units on the board, both friendly and enemies. The more models a unit of Nurgle kills, the more powerful all units of Nurgle become. Kill enough models and a unit of Nurgle may potentially have 3+ FNP and weapons that wound on 2+ and which ignore armor saves.
The problem is, however, that Nurgle isn't very killy. Besides the Daemon Princes, Nurgle units aren't very assaulty and can't shoot at all. So how can I up the Tally quickly despite the fact that my army has no shooting and doesn't fight very well? The answer to that lies in my allies, the gretchins.
Allies of Convenience and Desperate Allies, which will be the gretchins in this case, are treated as enemy units that you cannot assault or shoot. However, they are affected by area-effect powers that target enemy units. That's how I can up my Tally quickly. Get the gretchins close to either Epidemius or my Aura Daemon Prince and kill them indirectly with Aura of Decay. So in essence, the gretchins really are a sacrifice to the Gods of Chaos.
Also, Breath of Chaos will be used to increase the Tally. With so many models, my opponent's units are bound to be pact in tightly. Thus, Breath followed by assault with the Daemon Princes (DP's) can potentially kill 6-8 infantry at a time. What's worse, against the kroots, that will potentially mean that they get swept by my daemon princes.
Lastly, he's going to have some problems against my Flying Monstrous Creatures (FMC's). I honestly thought that he would have brought a more shooty Tau army (then again, he probably thought I was going to bring my Tzeentch Flying Circus since that was what I was talking about recently). With the exception of his Quad-guns, he can't reliably ground my FMC's and that's the only he's going to be able to take them out - by grounding them so that his units can assault them.
Despite all that, man, I don't know if I can handle such a horde army. 180+ models, of which 60 are Fearless assaulty and tarpitting models, plus a very fast deathstar in his Nob bikers, means that I am going to have my work cut out for me. Honestly, I see my daemons as the under-dogs here. Who cares about weapons that ignore armor saves when you don't even have armor (or only 6+ armor)?!? And he's got 8 scoring units in an objectives game to my 4 only! I really am outnumbered.
By the ways, there are some rules controversies pertaining to this game. Whether RAW or RAI, this is how we decided to play them.
1. When a flying monstrous creature gets grounded, he can be hit on regular Ballistic Skill (i.e. he loses his Hard to Hit rule also).
2. Soul Devourer does not give my units (Fateweaver) a Power Maul (thus, no +2 Strength).
3. No FNP when a unit is hit by a weapon 2x its Toughness. The crux of controversy here is that a wound that inflicts Instand Death will deny you your FNP save. However, can you inflict Instant Death to Eternal Warrior units, who are immune to Instant Death? Regardless of what some may think, we played it as you cannot take FNP from these types of wounds.
Tau: (by SabrX)
Jy2 has certainly found one nasty combo. Grots sacrifice themselves to the Papa Nurgle? They must really be fed up with their Ork masters. This is one of the best combos I’ve seen yet in 6th Ed. It’s arguably better than Fate Weaver + Tzeentch Terminators or Harlequins. Fate Weaver with poison, T5, 5++ re-rolls, and 3+ FNP Nurgle models? Once the tally hits 20+ models, they also ignore armor saves. There’s very little that can stand in their way.
Fortunately, my army is also unconventional. The first thing that comes to people minds when they think of Tau is Crisis Suits, Railguns, Fire Warriors, and Markerlights. Seldom do people think of Kroot allies.
Kroots were awesome in 5th Ed because of how easy it was to get cover saves. In 6th Ed Kroots got a slight nerf. They no longer can assault the turn they come in from outflank and die easier to shooting from changes to cover save and precision fire. They got a slight boost as well. Kroots can single tap and Overwatch. Also, the highest initiative in used for break test. One Kroot Hound is all that’s needed for I5 break. It’s also easier to regroup.
My game plan is to use my numbers to its advantage. I also double the number of scoring units compared to Jy2’s list, so I have the advantage when it comes to objectives. Thanks to infiltrate, I can spread out my 100 Kroots and 5 hounds to limit where the Daemons land. My Quad Gun will shoot any swooping Monstrous Creatures, forcing a grounded test, which Jy2 is bound to fail given how much shooting I have. Once the Daemon Prince or Fateweaver is grounded, Orks will assault and tarpit. Meanwhile, Kroots will deal with the slow and purposeful Plague Bearers.
There are a couple ways to counter Jy2's Plague Bomb cancel. I could go first, infiltrate my Kroots, and kill them before they die to Nurgle. However, jy2 could easily deploy them out of TLOS. This is also an objective game, so it's better that I go second. Another way to counter the Plague Bomb is killing Plague Bearers before they become a threat. Jy2 already knows this and will keep the bulk of his scoring units in his none-preferred wave.
My Warboss will be in the thick of action. I don't expect him to live. Hence, my Shas'el Tau commander will be my Warboss. He'll be camping behind the protection of the AV14 Bastion for most of the game.
I’m curious how Nobz Bikers will perform. The usual drawbacks to Deathstars are lack of models. However, that’s not the case with my army.
For our Warlord traits, Fateweaver gets Counter-attack and the Shas'el gets +1" to the charge radius of his Tau units within 12" of his commander.
Keep in mind that Allies of Convenience and Desperate Allies cannot use their Warlord's trait (only Battle Brothers can). Thus, his ork allies do not get the bonus distance to their charges.
I deploy my gretchins with Big Mek, more than 12" away from the center diagonal (marked by the dice). In Vanguard strike, you have to deploy at least 12" from the center line.
SabrX then deploys his entire army. He deploys his bastion behind the rectangular tower with his Warlord and firewarriors in it. He then infiltrates all his kroots all over the place.
Nob bikers to the left flank (his left). 1 unit of kroots behind the LOS-blocking terrain.
He scatters some kroots in his backfield to prevent me from deepstriking there.
My opponent chooses not to steal the initiative and we then begin.
By the ways, we made some mistakes in our game. I'll just list it in advance so that I don't have to interrupt the report with these errors:
1. I forgot about taking the S9 hit everytime my FMC's get grounded.
2. I forgot that my whole army causes Fear.
3. We both forgot about our Hammer of Wrath hits in combat (me with my FMC's and my opponent with his bikers).
4. SabrX forgot about the extra attack from his warboss' Attack Squig.
5. We actually messed up on the Mission. What we actually played instead was Crusade (as neither of us had any Fast Attack) instead of the Scouring. I will change the mission above to reflect that.
6. I also messed up on the Tally of Pestilence. As pointed out by Jabbdo, the tally doesn't count until Epidemius is on the board and the effects of the Tally are not calculated until the beginning of the player's next turn (my next turn).
Fateweaver
Icon Plaguebearers (w/Epidemius)
Aura Daemon Prince
Breath Deamon Prince
But instead, what I get is:
Nurglings
Plaguebearers
Plaguebearers
Breath Deamon Prince
Ouch! That hurts.
First unit of plaguebearers drop in the forests near my deployment zone. 1 plaguebearer dies to dangerous terrain.
Second unit of plagues try to deepstrike behind the ruins (and out of LOS). They scatter dangerously close to the kroots.
Nurglings deepstrike close to my gretchins.
As I am already at a disadvantage with my weak half coming in, I decided to go bold and make a risky deepstrike. I deepstrike my daemon prince (DP) to within temp range of his kroots. However, he scatters 4" away.
At the end of my Movement, SabrX's quad-guns fire at and grounds my DP. In return, my DP breathes on his kroots but only kills 2.
Tally Kills: 2
My gretchins then move to get some cover. I need to keep them alive so that I may kill them later!
Nurglings and gretchins then run.
Overall, not a good turn at all for me. I don't get my strong wave coming in. I've only killed 2 guys so far. My DP is grounded and thus can be assaulted by his nob bikers next turn (and probably give my opponent the First Blood victory condition). I'm going to need some good reserve rolls next turn or the game may be finished before it's even begun.
Tau 1
Spoiler:
Krorks mobilize.
2 units of kroots go after my plaguettes. Rapid-fire from them wipes out 5 plaguettes.
Nob bikers prepare to assault the Daemon Prince. Because we played being grounded as being able to be hit on normal BS, the combined firepower of the biker twin-linked dakkaguns and the kroots put 2W on my DP.
His bikers then assault. Papa Nurgle challenges his Power Klaw nob (PK nob), who cowardly declines.
I then decide not to Smash his bikers because then he can just allocate on his T6 warboss.
The bikers kill off Big Pappa Nurgle, but not before taking 1W on a biker (I believe it is the bosspole nob).
SabrX has just drawn First Blood, netting him 1 Victory Point.
Daemons 2
Spoiler:
I roll for my reserves and everyone comes in!
Game on!!!
Doh!!!
Fortunately, he just goes back into reserves.
At least my 2 most crucial units, Fateweaver and Epidemius, lands spot on.
By the ways, my FMC's always swoop in when they come in from reserves.
As for my Aura DP, I take a risky deepstrike with him and it pays off as he lands dead-on.
Plagues and nurglings advance.
Plaguettes move out of LOS (to the majority of his army).
Gretchins then congregate towards the filth that is Epidemius. Then....
BAMMM!!!
Aura of Decay wipes out 11 of the grots!
Tally Kills: 13
The DP emits his Aura of Decay and it kills off 2 orks and 6 kroots (even with 4+ cover)!
Tally Kills: 21
Woohoo! 3+ FNP and wounding on 2's with no armor saves allowed...my nurgle force has just all of a sudden become very, very lethal.
Fateweaver fires Daemonic Gaze and Bolt of Tzeentch at his bikers. The front nob uses Look Out Sir! to allocate another 1W to a different nob (all nobs are characters and thus, each and everyone in that unit can use Look Out Sir!). He fails his other LOS! test and takes the other 1W on himself.
BTW, his quad-gun fires at Fateweaver but fails to both hurt and ground him.
My plagues then assault his kroots.
I easily route his kroots, winning by 7.
Despite their I2, my plagues sweep the I5 kroots (from the kroot hound).
My plaguettes also assault another unit of kroots. Because of the small squad size, the plaguettes only win combat 3-1.
However, that is enough to send them running with their tails between their legs. The plaguettes consolidate behind the ruins and out of LOS.
Tau 2
Spoiler:
Kroots continue to fall back.
Nob bikers advance. His plan is to multi-charge both Fateweaver and Epidemius' unit if he can ground him. If not, then he will assault Epidemius' unit.
Orks advance. Kroots actually retreat to try to get more than 6" away from my DP.
One unit of ork boyz go after my plaguebearers.
He grounds my DP. I believe it was the kroots who did it.
Orks and retreating kroots (who can only fire in Snapshot mode) shoot down 1 plaguebearer.
Nob bikers also only shoot down 1 model from Epidemius' unit (they were within Fateweaver's bubble of protection).
Orcs then furiously charge my plagues.
His other unit of boyz charge my grounded DP.
Finally, his nobs charge my HQ unit (he wasn't able to ground Fateweaver).
The orcs only manage to kill 1 plague and I kill 2 in return.
However, his other orks kill my DP and take only 2 casualties in return.
In combat, Epidemius challenges one of his nobs to combat. I believe that it was his Waagh banner nob who accepts (or maybe it was his nob who challenged me as I thought I had challenged his PK nob). In any case, he fails all of his cybork invuln saves but passes all his FNP saves. The warboss then kills 2 of my plagues.
Daemons 3
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 3.
The last DP comes in off of Epidemius' unit's icon.
He is immediately grounded by the Tau quad-guns but otherwise remains unhurt.
I move my "plaguettes" (now being replaced by actual plaguebearer models) to go help out the other plague unit.
Fateweaver zooms and sweeps the other unit of boyz. Nurglings go in for the kill. I am going to show you how much damage the nurglings can do.
My DP breathes on the kroots and only kill 2.
Fateweaver then breathes, uses Daemonic Gaze and then tries to boon the PK nob in the ork mob. The nob survives, but the unit loses 11 boys.
Plaguebearers charge into combat.
As do the nurglings. Overwatch fire puts only 1W on the nurglings.
Nurglings kill a lot of orks and then sweep the unit. I only lose 2 bases thanks to being within Fateweaver's bubble of re-rolls.
Still don't think I can handle the orks?
In the other combat, my plagues roll poorly and I only kill 3 boys, despite wounding on 2's with re-rolls. The orks, on the other hand, only manage to kill just 1 plague due to them wounding T5 on 6's and the fact that my FNP is now 3+.
In the battle of the HQ's, the nob bikers put 1W on Epidemius (from the challenge) and kill 2 plaguebearers (from the warboss). Epidemius' unit then kills off the bosspole nob. BTW, we both make every single FNP save except 1 each (except against the warboss' S10 power klaw).
Tau 3
Spoiler:
Kroots go after my nurglings.
Kroot movement. His unit of kroots that were falling back regroups.
Note - on the turn that a unit regroups, it cannot move any further besides its consolidation move and may only fire in Snapshot mode (unless it has the And They Shall Know No Fear special rule).
Firewarriors move down to the ground floor of the bastion.
Both units of kroots rapid-fire at the nurglings. Thanks to Fateweaver's protection, I only lose 3 nurgling bases.
In assault, orks kill 1 more plaguebearer but plagues kill 4 orks.
Finally, Epidemius kills off the Waagh Banner nob in the challenge and his warboss kills 2 more plaguebearers for a tie combat (2W each).
Daemons 4
Spoiler:
Fateweaver swoops 12" over to deal with kroots. I make another mistake here and pivot Fateweaver after his move (or so it appears from the photo).
DP and nurglings both go after different kroot squads. The DP moves in Glide mode so that it can assault.
Gretchins start to make a move for the objective.
My DP kills 5 kroots with Breath. They pass morale. He is about 5" away from them.
Fateweaver breathes and gazes the kroots, killing 7. They also pass morale. Kairos also tries to turn the PK nob (locked in assault with the plaguebearers) into a chaos spawn but without success.
Nurglings then assault. Overwatch fire by the kroots causes 3W and removes a nurgling base.
Without the protection of Fateweaver, my nurglings then get pummeled in combat by the kroots.
No!!! Why?!?
DP fails his charge by about 1". This could be huge.
Plagues kill another 3 orks in combat. I am slowly, and I mean slowly, winning the war of attrition. Problem is, I've got 2 scoring units tied up in this combat.
Finally, in the battle of the HQ's, Epidemius challenges his painboy. I knock off 1W from him and his warboss kills another 2 plagues.
Tau 4
Spoiler:
SabrX is going to make me pay. His kroots advance, ignoring my DP. What they plan to do instead is to go after my gretchins.
Tau movement. Firewarriors disembark from the building.
Everyone there focuses on Fateweaver but cannot hurt or even ground him.
Both units of kroots rapid-fire into my gretchins. The only way I was able to survive was to use Look Out Sir! from my Big Mek (who was the closest model) to allocate wounds onto my rear gretchins (who had cover from the forests). I lose my Big Mek as well.
Fortunately for me, my cowardly gretchins actually pass morale on a 3. Now that makes up for the failed DP charge....almost.
Warboss kills another 2 plagues, though his regular nobs continue to fight in futility. He is winning this war of attrition, though just to be able to lock down that deathstar unit is a victory in itself for me.
And I continue to slowly wear down his boyz, winning 3-1 this time.
Daemons 5
Spoiler:
We've decided that this was going to be the very last game turn. The match has already gone over 4 hours and the store was actually closed already.
Gretchins go for the objective. My DP glides in front of his kroots.
Fateweaver also glides towards the kroots holding the objective in SabrX's deployment zone.
Breath only takes down 2 kroots here.
Fateweaver fires at his 2 units of kroots and kills 2 from each unit. Not good. I needed to make them take morale tests but breath just wasn't killing enough this turn.
Gretchins run to try to get some cover.
DP assault his kroots....
....as does Fateweaver.
I roll horribly in assault and only kill 1....but that is enough to break the squad. My DP, however, fails to catch them and thus they manage to flee.
Fateweaver actually out-assaults my DP and kills 2. His squad also breaks off successfully.
Plagues barely win combat here. I believe there are only 11 orks left so they are still fearless.
Finally, all that remains is Epidemius as his warboss wipes out the rest of my plagues.
Tau 5
Spoiler:
This will be the very last turn.
No!!! His kroots regroup and take an objective. That may just be game there.
His other unit of kroots step back away from my DP.
Aaarghh!!! His other unit of kroots regroup as well.
Fortunately, Fateweaver is contesting his objective and in his deployment zone.
At first, my opponent was going to assault my gretchins with his kroots. I then remind him that they had just regrouped and couldn't assault this turn. So he fires at my gretchins with his other unit of kroots and wipes them out.
I now have no objectives. Game over?
Not yet. My other plagues manage to kill 6 orks this turn and I break the squad. I then consolidate to take the objective where my gretchins were claiming.
Finally, because Epidemius is in a challenge, he survives the combat and actually manages to kill the painboy.
Deamons: I'd like to start off my Post-game with an apology.
I apologize for the plethora of mistakes we made in this game. We made a lot of mistakes this game, some due to unfamiliarity with the new rules, some due to still being in the "5th Edition" frame of mind and some just due to the fact that we weren't careful enough when reading the rules. I'd like to thank all of you who pointed out the mistakes to us (and did so politely instead of laughing at our faces ). I write these reports to entertain and educate the 40k masses and one of the good things that happens in these reports is that I also learn a lot about the game as well thanks to the readers. So thank you for not only your input, but for your patience as well as we are all re-learning this new game. We will strive to do better next time.
With that said, this was a fun game despite all the little mistakes. I had a blast playing the "plague bomb". It's just a fun list to play (though I don't know if it was fun for my opponent to play against). It's strong, but honestly, it isn't really over-powering (OP) in my opinion. There is just a lot of weakness in this type of army - lack of AT besides the FMC's, lack of mobility from the scoring units, lack of shooting, everything needs to go right for the list to work, FMC's may get tarpitted in combat, etc. When I didn't get my preferred wave in, I thought for sure that I would lose this game. Fortunately, I had excellent reserve rolls on Turn 2 to give my chaos forces a fighting chance.
This game was a game of ups and downs, which is one of the reasons why it is so memorable to me. After my wrong wave came in and SabrX wiped out my DP on Turn 1, I felt that I couldn't really win. Then after I hit the Tallymax and my nurglings wiped out SabrX's ork boyz on Turn 3, I could see the frustration in my opponent's face as he almost gave up. Then when both of his kroot regrouped on Turn 5, I was like And then my plagues broke his ork boyz and consolidated towards the objective to make it a close one. So despite all the mistakes, it was quite an enjoyable game and I had a lot of fun. I'm sure my opponent did also as he is now 2-0 against me in 6E.
One thing that you do have to consider is that games now take longer to play in 6E. Despite the minimal use of wound allocation and complex units (other than the nob bikers), it still took us about 4.5 hours to complete this game....and we didn't even really finish it as we just decided to end it after T5. And this is despite the lack of shooting in both of our armies (well, mine mostly). Part of the reason is because my opponent was playing a horde army. But mainly it is because the core mechanics of 6E just forces you to play more slowly. Having to roll dice one at a time due to Look Out Sir and other similar mechanics just take time. There isn't really any getting around this, no matter how experience you are or how fast you play. That's just the way 6E will be from now on. I think from now on, we wil be going down in points for our future battles.
SabrX's army was a challenge to play against. Although it is by no means a balanced list (neither is mine), it is IMO a pretty fun list as well as a challenging list for certain armies to play against. However, I still think the way to go for Tau is shooty Tau with ork allies. This battle also gave me a glimpse into the ork army and I will say this - orks are now very good. They just got much better this edition. Don't be surprised if you see them winning in tournament play again. IMO they are now a top-tier army again.
Thanks for tuning in. I had just as much fun writing this report as I did playing it.
Tau: (by SabrX)
That was an intense match. The Plague Bomb is definitely a top tier list. Once Epidimius maxes tallies, the Plague Bearers becomes super buff. Nobz Power Klaws don’t do anything because they can't bypass 3+ FNP. Ork Boyz is Str3 and need 6’s to wound when they are not charging. The only thing they can do is stall for time. Only the Warboss proved effective. I'm surprised he survived.
Fateweaver was a constant thorn in my side. He racked up a lot of kills with his swoop and shooting attacks. It’s really difficult to kill him once he’s in swooping mode. I got lucky grounding two Daemon Princes early in the game. Had they still been alive, they would have thinned out my horde with combined Breath of Chaos.
Towards the end, I got really lucky with my regroup rolls. If the Kroots near the middle objective ran off the table, it would have been game over. In the end, it was ultimately the Kroots that won me the game. There were too many of them for Jy2 to handle.
The Ork detachments also did a splendid job. They stalled all three Plague Bearer units and took out two Daemon Princes. Nobz Bikers and Warboss were super resilient. I surprise Jy2 by making a lot of FNP saves. The new wound allocations and FNP boosted their effectiveness. The Orks will be a great addition to my Tau army.
This message was edited 21 times. Last update was at 2012/07/25 03:07:45
I can see what the Daemons are going for because I have read the forum post for that list (thx for posting the link so everyone knows what you are upto going into the game), but what is SabrX doing !!???!!????
I am really looking forward to this battle report!
Illumini wrote:The Torks better have a nasty trick up their sleeve to combat those deamons. I think this will be a massacre for the tallyman.
Kroots and Orks are dirt cheap. Hence I can field a massive horde that packs a lot of fire power and has a lot of attacks. Some of you may be wondering what deadly combo I have in store. Sorry to disappoint, but there is none. My thinker side got the better of me. I’ve always wondered what it would be like to cram in max number of Kroot Warriors and Ork Boyz in the same list. My list concentrates in raw power and not much in defence. In the words of Joseph Stalin, “Quanity has a quality all its own.” This is principle of horde army, and that’s what my army is.
I've actually done better with orks now that I've dropped the nob and power klaw and just go pure shoota boys for 180 points for 30 men. Crazy volume of shots.
It can kill most vehicles on the charge except necron's.... be dangerous to charge into for even say purifier units due to the sheer volume of shots. but is very weak to stuff that is T8 since you can't hurt them anymore. Stupid wraithlord >.< But that's ok, that's what big guns/zaap guns and lots of gretchen are good for. Big shootas are also more useful this edition doing the mass wave.
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/07/22 02:48:58
Subject: The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (w/Nob Bikers)
Tau: (by SabrX)
Jy2 has certainly found one nasty combo. Grots sacrifice themselves to the Papa Nurgle? They must really be fed up with their Ork masters. This is one of the best combos I’ve seen yet in 6th Ed. It’s arguably better than Fate Weaver + Tzeentch Terminators or Harlequins. Fate Weaver with poison, T5, 5++ re-rolls, and 3+ FNP Nurgle models? Once the tally hits 20+ models, they also ignore armor saves. There’s very little that can stand in their way.
"Jy2 has certainly found one nasty combo."
"Dire Avengers are even great in close combat, I mean, an Exarch with a Diresword can even take down a Carnifex!!"
EUROCHEESE - You can smell it.
2012/07/22 07:17:41
Subject: Re:The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (w/Nob Bikers)
Tau: (by SabrX)
Jy2 has certainly found one nasty combo. Grots sacrifice themselves to the Papa Nurgle? They must really be fed up with their Ork masters. This is one of the best combos I’ve seen yet in 6th Ed. It’s arguably better than Fate Weaver + Tzeentch Terminators or Harlequins. Fate Weaver with poison, T5, 5++ re-rolls, and 3+ FNP Nurgle models? Once the tally hits 20+ models, they also ignore armor saves. There’s very little that can stand in their way.
"Jy2 has certainly found one nasty combo."
He does have a link to your thread, and congrats on the idea. Its both awesome and.....awesome.
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
2012/07/22 07:29:20
Subject: Re:The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (w/Nob Bikers)
Yeah, I saw the link, thanks for linking it btw Jy2 =)
And thanks for the positive feedback. Thought of it as a joke to begin with, when we were thinking about double FOC at 2k, and having Chaos as your main detachments then 2 allied detachments, one of Daemons and another of Orks, so you could get the quick tally up for your Nurgle marines.
"Dire Avengers are even great in close combat, I mean, an Exarch with a Diresword can even take down a Carnifex!!"
EUROCHEESE - You can smell it.
2012/07/22 12:38:01
Subject: Re:The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (w/Nob Bikers)
Jabbdo wrote:when we were thinking about double FOC at 2k, and having Chaos as your main detachments then 2 allied detachments, one of Daemons and another of Orks,
Pg 110, BIGGER GAMES: 'taking an extra primary detachment allows you to take an additional allied detachment (which must be from the same codex as your other allied detachment).'
I don't write the rules. My ego just lives and dies by them one model at a time.
2012/07/22 13:17:15
Subject: Re:The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (w/Nob Bikers)
Jabbdo wrote:when we were thinking about double FOC at 2k, and having Chaos as your main detachments then 2 allied detachments, one of Daemons and another of Orks,
Pg 110, BIGGER GAMES: 'taking an extra primary detachment allows you to take an additional allied detachment (which must be from the same codex as your other allied detachment).'
Oh well, guess it'll have to be just Daemons and Orks then
"Dire Avengers are even great in close combat, I mean, an Exarch with a Diresword can even take down a Carnifex!!"
EUROCHEESE - You can smell it.
2012/07/22 15:16:13
Subject: Re:The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (w/Nob Bikers)
tetrisphreak wrote:The scouring uses 6 objectives, not d3+2. They are also random VP values in that mission (1,2,2,3,3,4) revealed after deployment.
Oops! As neither of us had any Fast Attack, then what we ended up playing essentially was Crusade.
sudojoe wrote:I've actually done better with orks now that I've dropped the nob and power klaw and just go pure shoota boys for 180 points for 30 men. Crazy volume of shots.
It can kill most vehicles on the charge except necron's.... be dangerous to charge into for even say purifier units due to the sheer volume of shots. but is very weak to stuff that is T8 since you can't hurt them anymore. Stupid wraithlord >.< But that's ok, that's what big guns/zaap guns and lots of gretchen are good for. Big shootas are also more useful this edition doing the mass wave.
That's an interesting idea about the nobless horde. I may just consider that.
I'm amassing a small force of shoota orks as well.
Jabbdo wrote:
jy2 wrote:
Tau: (by SabrX)
Jy2 has certainly found one nasty combo. Grots sacrifice themselves to the Papa Nurgle? They must really be fed up with their Ork masters. This is one of the best combos I’ve seen yet in 6th Ed. It’s arguably better than Fate Weaver + Tzeentch Terminators or Harlequins. Fate Weaver with poison, T5, 5++ re-rolls, and 3+ FNP Nurgle models? Once the tally hits 20+ models, they also ignore armor saves. There’s very little that can stand in their way.
"Jy2 has certainly found one nasty combo."
From my opponent's perspective, at the time of the game, my list was a complete surprise to my opponent (as his was to me as well). He had no idea where I got it from.
Your "plague bomb" is a very creative idea. At first, I was going to run the Tzeentch Daemon Flying Circus against him, but after seeing your thread, I decided to change it. Fortunately, I had a "small" Nurgle contingent that I could use.
Jabbdo wrote:Yeah, I saw the link, thanks for linking it btw Jy2 =)
And thanks for the positive feedback. Thought of it as a joke to begin with, when we were thinking about double FOC at 2k, and having Chaos as your main detachments then 2 allied detachments, one of Daemons and another of Orks, so you could get the quick tally up for your Nurgle marines.
I can't wait to get some games in with this myself, I'll have to challenge some randoms at our FLGS just to see the look on their faces when I pull out my list
A couple of things I noticed though:
Tally kills are only counted whilst Epidemius is on the table, so kills before he comes in (wrong wave) don't count for it, and if he dies you lose all the benefits. Also, the tally benefits only come into effect at the start of your next turn, meaning if you get the plague-fart to kill 20 Grots on t1, you'll only get the bonuses t2. I only just realized this part myself this morning when I was checking the wording on some things in the Daemon codex. But yeah, that makes it even more crucial you get Epi in ASAP, you might want to consider an Aegis line w/ Comm relay for rerolls to reserves, to makes sure he comes in as soon as possible in case you roll the wrong wave, and it'll help to bring in the rest of your army faster too.
"Dire Avengers are even great in close combat, I mean, an Exarch with a Diresword can even take down a Carnifex!!"
EUROCHEESE - You can smell it.
2012/07/22 19:12:26
Subject: The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (w/Nob Bikers)
Seeing that the first turn was given to Deamons and no attempt to seize + no tries to kill grots:
Is it safe to assume you are purposefully trying to get the tally up on the Nurglings to see what happens?
To me the way to combat this army would be to take the initiative and kill off the grots yourself. Or at least try and get into a position to kill off Epidemius when he comes in and kills the grots (nob bikers + warboss come to mind as the perfect way to kill grots/Epidemius).
Any reason to let the Deamons go first without a fight that I might be missing?
2012/07/22 19:31:54
Subject: The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (w/Nob Bikers)
DutchSage wrote:Seeing that the first turn was given to Deamons and no attempt to seize + no tries to kill grots:
Is it safe to assume you are purposefully trying to get the tally up on the Nurglings to see what happens?
To me the way to combat this army would be to take the initiative and kill off the grots yourself. Or at least try and get into a position to kill off Epidemius when he comes in and kills the grots (nob bikers + warboss come to mind as the perfect way to kill grots/Epidemius).
Any reason to let the Deamons go first without a fight that I might be missing?
If I go first, I lose a turn of shooting at Daemons. Also, Jy2 would have deployed differently by positioned the bulk of his Grots out of TLOS, so it would be impossible to wipe them out completely. You can't kill what you can't see in this edition. If my Kroots can only see 5 Grots out of the whole squad, only 5 Grot will die. The rest unscathed.
And yes, I was curious how the Nurgle Daemons will perform once they've hit max tally to Epidemius.
I think this is an interesting idea, but an unfortunate list for you to play it against. Since both lists are very CC focussed.
Having only started reading this at turn 2, it does seem like jy2 is winning a lot of combats. However, point for point, the attrition war is being lost. Winning the battle, but losing the war, so to speak.
There are also a lot of big point cost Daemon models dropping too.
I think to see this list really shine, you'd need to be against a MEQ type army, particularly another "Death Star" CC list. I think even with the Tally up, you'll struggle to get through the Boyz.
2000 pts
Compel wrote:
Because in a universe where the basic weapon is a rocket propelled grenade machine gun, with gigantic battletanks, 5 kilometer long spaceships, huge robots and power armoured supersoldiers, the most powerful guy you want to field on a battlefield is a bloke in a pointy hat carrying a stick.
2012/07/23 06:55:34
Subject: Re:The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (Turn 3 Up)
Jabbdo wrote:I can't wait to get some games in with this myself, I'll have to challenge some randoms at our FLGS just to see the look on their faces when I pull out my list
A couple of things I noticed though:
Tally kills are only counted whilst Epidemius is on the table, so kills before he comes in (wrong wave) don't count for it, and if he dies you lose all the benefits. Also, the tally benefits only come into effect at the start of your next turn, meaning if you get the plague-fart to kill 20 Grots on t1, you'll only get the bonuses t2. I only just realized this part myself this morning when I was checking the wording on some things in the Daemon codex. But yeah, that makes it even more crucial you get Epi in ASAP, you might want to consider an Aegis line w/ Comm relay for rerolls to reserves, to makes sure he comes in as soon as possible in case you roll the wrong wave, and it'll help to bring in the rest of your army faster too.
Doh!!! Looks like I didn't read the rules for the Tally carefully enough. I've noted this mistake in my report (on Daemons Turn 1). Thanks for pointing it out.
DutchSage wrote:Seeing that the first turn was given to Deamons and no attempt to seize + no tries to kill grots:
Is it safe to assume you are purposefully trying to get the tally up on the Nurglings to see what happens?
To me the way to combat this army would be to take the initiative and kill off the grots yourself. Or at least try and get into a position to kill off Epidemius when he comes in and kills the grots (nob bikers + warboss come to mind as the perfect way to kill grots/Epidemius).
Any reason to let the Deamons go first without a fight that I might be missing?
No, my opponent didn't have the range to be able to take out my grots. Also, I moved most of them out of LOS so that even if he had shot at them, then he wouldn't be able to take them all out.
He went 2nd because in an objectives-based game, he wanted to have the last turn to contest/claim objectives.
He did try to kill off Epidemius with his nob bikers on the turn Epi came in. If we had played it correctly, he actually would have had a decent chance also as I wouldn't get the 3+ FNP until next turn. But with that 3+ FNP (and a re-rollable 5++ thanks to Fateweaver), it is damn tough to get rid of my unit.
DexKivuli wrote:I think this is an interesting idea, but an unfortunate list for you to play it against. Since both lists are very CC focussed.
Having only started reading this at turn 2, it does seem like jy2 is winning a lot of combats. However, point for point, the attrition war is being lost. Winning the battle, but losing the war, so to speak.
There are also a lot of big point cost Daemon models dropping too.
I think to see this list really shine, you'd need to be against a MEQ type army, particularly another "Death Star" CC list. I think even with the Tally up, you'll struggle to get through the Boyz.
Good points. In a war of attrition, with 8 scoring units and 172 troops, SabrX has a big advantage.
However, as you can see, with teamwork (i.e. Fateweaver and nurglings), I can easily take down a 30-ork boy mob. And the fact that his kroots have low morale means that they are susceptible to breaking or getting swept by my daemons.
So IMO it still can be anyone's game at this point.
No doubt this list can whip normal MEQ lists. I think the true test is if it can fight with a horde list like this one.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/07/23 07:09:22
No doubt this list can whip normal MEQ lists. I think the true test is if it can fight with a horde list like this one.
I was thinking the same thing throughout our game. Plague Bomb can definitely deal with MEQ and small elite armies. FNPBA spam might have a chance thanks to FNP working against anything that doesn't cause instant death. Once the Tally reaches max, Plague Bearers and Nurglings is really powerful!
There's rumors that the new CSM codex might have chaos cultist judging on the rumored starter set. If that's true, I could see a newer nasty version of Plague Bomb combo using Plague Marines.
SabrX wrote:There's rumors that the new CSM codex might have chaos cultist judging on the rumored starter set. If that's true, I could see a newer nasty version of Plague Bomb combo using Plague Marines.
Chaos Cultists couldn't be sacrificed as grots. They will be brothers in arms and so completely immune to AoD.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/07/23 09:17:07
Every molecule will be useful
6000+ pts NIDS
() 2000 pts growing to 4000...
2012/07/23 10:33:05
Subject: The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (Turn 3 Up)
It's a shame you forgot the S9 grounding wounds. They really do add up quite quickly. Although the invuln saves for Daemons would definitely help out against it.
SabrX wrote:
I was thinking the same thing throughout our game. Plague Bomb can definitely deal with MEQ and small elite armies. FNPBA spam might have a chance thanks to FNP working against anything that doesn't cause instant death. Once the Tally reaches max, Plague Bearers and Nurglings is really powerful!
There's rumors that the new CSM codex might have chaos cultist judging on the rumored starter set. If that's true, I could see a newer nasty version of Plague Bomb combo using Plague Marines.
That would be an interesting battle indeed. I'm curious as to how the jump angels have improved in this edition. ATSKNF has gotten much, much better and the fact that FNP now works against power weapons means that jump Angels can better handle the armies that used to give them problems before. Throw in perhaps a unit of death company and they may be somewhat scary. Of course their achilles heel would probably be against a flyer army.
yakface wrote:
It's a shame you forgot the S9 grounding wounds. They really do add up quite quickly. Although the invuln saves for Daemons would definitely help out against it.
Yeah, if this was nids, those grounding wounds would have had a much bigger impact. Against daemons, it's not as bad. I believe each FMC got grounded 1x. Fateweaver would have passed all his saves as usual. That means I should have taken 2W on my 3 DP's. But they still got killed in assault anyways so it didn't make too much of a difference to the outcome in this game.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/23 18:34:56
I really like Fateweaver in this list. You can now win even if the plague bomb fails. I plan to try running it with 4 FMCs and a Dakkajet. That should create a bit of mayhem. I've tried it without Fateweaver and really felt it was missing something. I'm sure getting the tally with four breath and aura will work fine. I also like that you only use the one aura and one icon. There is a fellow who won a RTT with it ...
It seems ur playing challenges wrong, you dont get to choose who you challenge, you just declare ur challenging then ur oponent gets to choose any character to accept. if he declines then you choose who dosnt get to attack.
2012/07/23 23:14:38
Subject: Re:The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (Completed)
felixcat wrote:
I really like Fateweaver in this list. You can now win even if the plague bomb fails. I plan to try running it with 4 FMCs and a Dakkajet. That should create a bit of mayhem. I've tried it without Fateweaver and really felt it was missing something. I'm sure getting the tally with four breath and aura will work fine. I also like that you only use the one aura and one icon. There is a fellow who won a RTT with it ...
Yeah, Fateweaver and the nurgle DP's is to help balance out the list against flyers and other units that the troops can't handle. They also provide much needed mobility to an otherwise very slow army. Finally, Fateweaver and his buddies provide a safety net should the plague bomb fail (i.e. Epidemius gets offed early or all the grots croak). They can still do damage and bring up the Tally if the grots die.
Adding a dakkajet sounds interesting. Too bad I don't have the rules for it.
Nick is definitely a very good player and will make any army he runs competitive. It appears that we both have the same viewpoint - that you can't just rely on the plague bomb by itself. Just too many things can go wrong. That's why we both brought an element of stability to the list - the Nurgle Flying Circus (with Breath!). With them, even if the plague bomb goes south, the flying circus can still make it a competitive game.
Bronzino88 wrote: Excellent battle report as usual.
It seems ur playing challenges wrong, you dont get to choose who you challenge, you just declare ur challenging then ur oponent gets to choose any character to accept. if he declines then you choose who dosnt get to attack.
You are right. After reviewing the rules, we misplayed it there. Thanks for pointing it out.
DexKivuli wrote:
I think to see this list really shine, you'd need to be against a MEQ type army, particularly another "Death Star" CC list. I think even with the Tally up, you'll struggle to get through the Boyz.
jy2 wrote:
Still don't think I can handle the orks?
I take it back, I take it back!!
/me checks under his desk for Nurglings about to bite his ankles.
I hadn't really considered the power of nurglings with Epdiemius's tally up. I'd just been thinking about plague bearers, who - even with a solid chance of killing a model with each attack - only have 1 attack base. I think Nurglings will be the key ingredient to making this list really deadly... with three attacks, that's a lot of death!
A very interesting pair of lists, and a well-fought victory for the Greater Good.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/24 02:24:42
2000 pts
Compel wrote:
Because in a universe where the basic weapon is a rocket propelled grenade machine gun, with gigantic battletanks, 5 kilometer long spaceships, huge robots and power armoured supersoldiers, the most powerful guy you want to field on a battlefield is a bloke in a pointy hat carrying a stick.
2012/07/24 10:20:35
Subject: Re:The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (Completed)
Lol very entertaining fight. I bet you guys are noticing just how long these horde armies and complex fights end up taking. I think the first games we did went some 4-5 hrs too. It's one of the other reasons I just took out my nobs from the boyz squads.
More bodies and shooting and can't challenge anyone just to speed things along. I have gotten just some 1000 point games down to 2hrs but it's still a struggle just to go through so many steps from terrain set up to picking warlords to complex fights and interruption shooting via turrets/damage in movement phases/pre-measuring. It's definately alot more time consuming.
Had one guy start having heat stress after a while and it took him probably 2 minutes to work up 6' move +12' shooting = 18' range for one of his squads when he was trying to decide if he wanted to move them or not. Probably measured like 8 times just to make sure. I think it was like our 3th game and the AC was out so I can't blame the guy
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/07/24 14:33:49
Subject: Re:The Battle of Wacky Lists - 2K Jy2's Nurgle Daemons vs SabrX's Tau Kroot-Orc Horde (Completed)
sudojoe wrote:Lol very entertaining fight. I bet you guys are noticing just how long these horde armies and complex fights end up taking. I think the first games we did went some 4-5 hrs too. It's one of the other reasons I just took out my nobs from the boyz squads.
More bodies and shooting and can't challenge anyone just to speed things along. I have gotten just some 1000 point games down to 2hrs but it's still a struggle just to go through so many steps from terrain set up to picking warlords to complex fights and interruption shooting via turrets/damage in movement phases/pre-measuring. It's definately alot more time consuming.
Had one guy start having heat stress after a while and it took him probably 2 minutes to work up 6' move +12' shooting = 18' range for one of his squads when he was trying to decide if he wanted to move them or not. Probably measured like 8 times just to make sure. I think it was like our 3th game and the AC was out so I can't blame the guy
I still think Nob are essential for utility. Nob with Power Klaws is great to have when the Boyz are stuck in combat against MC or charging non-flyer vehicles. A standard MEQ Sergeant with a Power Weapon on the charge will on average inflict 1 wound. Nob will attack back and insta-gib. If the sergeant is armed with a Power Fist, then Nob and Sergeant ends up killing each other. If it's beneficial that for the Boyz to clobber charaters issuing challenge, then I'll have the Nob decline the challenge.
Yeah, 2000pts games is very time consuming. This edition favors infantry over vehicles. New wound allocation lengthens the game. I'll be playing a lot more 1500pts games in future.
SevenSins wrote:A neat rep, now that is a proper horde, SaberX!
A dirty trick with the "sacrificial gretchin to chaos", as if any chaos god would give rewards for gretchin sacrifices
Gretchin aren't scoring when taken as desperate allies are they? (Moot as they were wiped out but...)
You are right. Detatchments that have desperate allies relationship with primay cannot score. It's interesting to note that in Allies of Convenience, detatchments are not treated as a friendly units, but can score. There's only once allies of convenience for Chaos Daemons, and that's IG.
I still think Plague Bomb is much more effective with a sacrifical Grot unit because Grots are T2.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
- 1500 6th ed codex: 2 wins, 1 loss, 0 draws 
). I write these reports to entertain and educate the 
(
) 2000 pts growing to 4000... 
