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This is a trilogy of games I had against SonsofGrant's new Deldar army. Basically, he runs a dual deathstar elder/dark elder army. Prior to their new codex, they were pretty nasty. How has the new elder dex affected one of the oldest deathstars around - the seer council? In this game, we will find out.

This is only Grant's 2nd game with his NEW old army. As it is experimental for him, I decided to bring an experimental list myself. This time, I am running what I call my Armoured Zombie Apocalypse Chaos list. I've been resisting but finally I relented to using allies. That is because I wanted to maximize the number of armoured non-transport vehicles in my army. My ideal list will probably run 7 of these vehicles, but for now, I've got 5. In any case, my list isn't really balanced. It's more of a fun list IMO.


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1850 Armored Zombie Apocalypse vs the NEW Double-Trouble Dual Deathstar Deer Council Deldar


1850 Armored Zombie Apocalypse Chaos

Typhus

Warlord Trait: Fear (whoooo.....scary! )

Herald - Tzeentch, Lvl 3, 1x Exalted Gift (Grimoire), Conjuration - Perfect Timing, Forewarning, Flickering Fire

27x Zombies
27x Zombies
26x Zombies
20x Pink Horrors

5x Chaos Spawn - Mark of Nurgle
Heldrake
Heldrake

Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend
Soulgrinder - Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent



1850 NEW Double-Trouble Dual Deathstar Deer Council Deldar

Farseer
- Jetbike
- Fortune, Doom, Guide

Warlord Trait: Scoring (Ouch for me!)

Farseer
- Jetbike
- Terrify, Hallucination, Mental Fortitude

x8 Seer Council:
- Jetbikes
- x6 Witchblades
- x2 Destructors, Embolden, Protect, x2 Empowers
- x2 Singing Spears
- Quicken, Enhance

Baron Sathonyx

x10 Kabalite Warriors
- x1 Splinter Cannon

x10 Kabalite Warriors
- x1 Splinter Cannon

x3 Guardian Jetbikes

x3 Guardian Jetbikes

x3 Guardian Jetbikes

Beastmaster Unit:
- x5 Beastmasters
- x6 Kymerea
- x6 Razorwing Flocks

x3 War Walkers:
- x3 Scatter Lasers
- x3 Bright Lances

x3 War Walkers:
- x3 Scatter Lasers
- x3 Bright Lances

Aegis w/ Quad Gun


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Mission: Bay Area Open

Primary (4-pts): Purge the Alien

Secondary (3-pts): The Scouring

Tertiary (1-pt each): First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord


Deployment: Hammer & Anvil


Initiative: Chaos


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PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Chaos:

This army was built more with resiliency in mind than actual offense. It's assault in decent and it's got piss-poor shooting. However, it's an anti-meta list and many armies will struggle against it. It doesn't care about deathstars or heldrakes or whatever....there is just no easy target. You're either shooting at resilient walkers or the 2 flying dragons or dirt cheap zombies or 2++ horrors. There is no really good target priority in my list. My strategy is to hunker down on the objectives, with Typhus in the unit of Chaos spawns acting as a free safety and counter-assault unit along with 3 dangerous walkers. Meanwhile, the flying turkeys and walkers will go kill stuff while the horrors go shoot stuff.

The seer council is going to present a problem however. The strength of my list is to lock down enemy units and then counter-assault them. I can't do that to his deathstars, at least not with the Baron there. He lets his unit get out of combat almost at will. Moreover, he's got 2 really, really good powers in Terrify and Fortune. Both powers are going to play a huge role in this game. It is precisely because of his psychic powers why I think my army will be the underdog in this battle. I really have no answer to them. Then again, I'm not sure my opponent has an answer to my double dragons. My dragons may be good enough to bridge the power gap between our armies. I have a feeling they will be cooking his troops while he is running down my zombies. In any case, with all the torrent flamers in my army, you can be sure his beastpack won't last very long if he decides to play aggressively with them. As a matter of fact, with all my walkers there, I don't think his beastpack is going to do much of anything at all in this game besides getting roasted.

Finally, mission-wise, I may have a slight advantage. While my troops probably won't survive, it's going to be hard for him to deal with my 2 scoring flyers as well as my beast unit (Chaos spawns) with Typhus attached. My VP's are also a little harder to get than my opponent's fragile supporting units. On the other hand, Grant has got 3 units of the very fast and much improved jetbikes as well as a scoring deathstar in his seer council because of his Warlord trait (as long as his Warlord farseer stays with the unit).


Deldar:

I'm not sure I have an answer to his deathstar. It sure is nasty. Fortune is nasty. My only counter to it is Misfortune and I didn't get it. With Protect and Fortune, you're looking at re-rollable 2+ bikes. With Conceal and Fortune, you're looking at bikes with re-rollable 2+ cover if they turbo-boost. I really have nothing that can actually hurt this unit. And then there's Terrify. That power is very scary to my army. Cast it and then assault and sweep the unit you are assaulting. I think that if he wins, it's going to be due to Terrify. That's his best weapon against my army. Finally, that damn unit is scoring (because of the Warlord)! And even if he doesn't score with them, he can still string out his council and contest multiple objectives. The seer council was very annoying in the last edition and they continue to be very annoying this edition.

Then he's got a very good supporting cast as well. The jetbikes can get to anywhere they want. The war walkers are a very shooty unit and 6 twin-linked bright lances can really put the hurt on any of my armoured walkers/flyers. The beastpack is an excellent offensive unit that can kill almost anything reliably (except my walkers and flyers). The quad-fun, which may not necessarily be the best AA gun in the game, is respectable and will force me to give my 2 heldrakes some protection, thus restricting their movement. I'm going to have to shoot down whoever is manning the quad-gun with my horrors (unless it's the seer council). With Perfect Timing, at least they won't be getting cover saves from the Aegis Defense Line.

Overall, I see his deathstar as near-unstoppable in this game. I certainly don't have much that can do anything to them offensively. I can't even outlast them because of Terrify. All he needs to do is to sweep 1 flank with his council and then move on to the next. Meanwhile, his jetbikes (if they survive my drakes) can just turbo to claim the objectives on Turn 5. That's why I've got to take them out first and foremost (his jetbikes, that is). Similarly, I think he will go after my troops as well. It may well come down to his scoring deathstar against my 2 scoring flyers to see who will get the objectives.


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I will probably start the report tomorrow or Saturday. In the meantime, always interested in hearing what you guys think about the matchups. Are the new elder, and especially the new seer council, a viable and competitive build or are they a thing of the past? Despite the imbalance of my Chaos army, can it hold up to some of the more competitive armies or will it hold like yesterday's newspaper?


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Deployment:




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Chaos 1




Deldar 1




Chaos 2




Deldar 2




Chaos 3




Deldar 3




Chaos 4




Deldar 4




Chaos 5




Deldar 5

Were those Warlock powers and the 1st Farseer powers rolled for? Pretty much a perfect score on that front.

Yup. He rolled for them. Lucky bastard got all the right powers.

Dats... alot o' zombies..... I would love to see how a ork boy spam for the maximum number orks vs this list would look on the table top!

I actually could've ran more zombies. That was only 80 zombies. I have over 100. However, I didn't want to unbalance my list by focusing way too much on the zombies.

Orks will probably run straight through them, assuming that they can get pass the 3 walkers. But it definitely would be impressive with the number of bodies you can see on the table.

The crazy thing about this is the utility that is created with having jetbikes and beast packs. The characters can bounce back and forth between them depending on mission, need, deployment, and army faced. Wow.

The elder codex is good but I think you will pull off the victory at the end of the day you have to many torrents. The beast unit should go up in flames with one torrent, and you should be able to tie his seer council up with av 12 walkers and zombies.

Wow, interesting matchup.

It really hinges, in my opinion, on what those Warwalkers can accomplish. If they can take out your armour, it will be difficult for you.

I'd send the Maulers right at them, try to get in cover, and hope they don't blow up. You really need those Turkeys to burn his troops and score/contest on the otherside of the table. If he outflanks his Walkers (it may be tempting to try for early shots at Turkey-butt rear armour), which would be a mistake, send the Spawn after them to wipe face.

Also, his Seer Council is gonna have to go to work. Yes, they can survive, but they'll need to make sure they can get Terrify off for him to actually whittle down your troops. Otherwise, 80 Zombies (in cover if you can get it) may be too much to push off objectives.

I'd give a slight edge to Deldar thanks to those ridiculous powers, but remember Warlocks have a low LD.. Failing a key power at the wrong time could spell the Fall of the Deldar.

Really, though, if you have even a single Turkey left when the game ends, the game is yours.

That eldar list need a hemlock so desperatly, just to make sure you get that terrify!!

I do like the idea, though i would build the list more resillient.

I was wondering, what is your plan for this new list of yours in general? I'm not sure how it can compete with more mobile lists. In my relatively inexperienced opinion, the zombies seem to lack a purpose. Sure they can objective camp, but they lack the numbers to properly push ahead. Imagine what a Tau gunline list would do to this list. The Maulers and Grinder would last 2 turns max and the zombies would be cleaned off the objectives in short order.

Of course, it is extremely possible that I am missing something dramatic.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
The crazy thing about this is the utility that is created with having jetbikes and beast packs. The characters can bounce back and forth between them depending on mission, need, deployment, and army faced. Wow.

Yeah, those HQ's are interchangeable between the 2 deathstars. That makes them really flexible depending on the your needs.

 CKO wrote:
The elder codex is good but I think you will pull off the victory at the end of the day you have to many torrents. The beast unit should go up in flames with one torrent, and you should be able to tie his seer council up with av 12 walkers and zombies.

Beast unit is more resilient than that. Keep in mind that some of the guys in there have 4++ Invuln's. So with 6 of those guys in the front, they can potentially absorb up to 12W before he has to allocate on the more killy units. Then you could put characters in there as well or even cast Fortune.

I can't tie up the seer council because of the Baron, who gives the unit Hit & Run.

Torrent rules should help navigate around tanking characters. I view the beast pack as an almost non-factor here barring a lucky quad gun.

I'd even think about putting both characters with the council and starting the beasts in reserve if I was playing Deldar and going second.

 jy2 wrote:

Beast unit is more resilient than that. Keep in mind that some of the guys in there have 4++ Invuln's. So with 6 of those guys in the front, they can potentially absorb up to 12W before he has to allocate on the more killy units. Then you could put characters in there as well or even cast Fortune.

I can't tie up the seer council because of the Baron, who gives the unit Hit & Run.

I slightly underestimated the durability of the beast unit but they should go down to the daemons shooting.

I still believe that the daemon list has enough shooting power to make the seer councils damage output insignificant, relying on psychic powers is another thing, each perils is 50 points.

keeping in mind that protect is on a ld 8 psyker i think chaos should have this provided eldar doesnt perform a miracle and pass protect every turn. I'm really debating the councils effectiveness anymore with the low ld...they'll be really dead in the water vs. nids. I really like warwalkers though so i think they'll do really well, though i dont know if i like diversifying the unit to have half anti-infantry and half lances. I prefer starcannon/slazer or double bright lance personally. One wrecks any infantry and can still punish MCs and the other is decidedly good vs armor and can still dish on MCs as well.

Seems like it will be a really interesting battle. I'm a big fan of Dark Eldar/Eldar hybrid lists, so really looking forward to seeing how this goes.

Also, it's Kabalite Warriors, not Kabolites.

What are Zombies?

rivers64 wrote:
What are Zombies?

Plague Zombies are chaos cultists taken with typhus. They are just chaos cultists basically with FNP, Slow and Purposeful, and no guns.

I love fun games like these.

 hippesthippo wrote:
Wow, interesting matchup.

It really hinges, in my opinion, on what those Warwalkers can accomplish. If they can take out your armour, it will be difficult for you.

I'd send the Maulers right at them, try to get in cover, and hope they don't blow up. You really need those Turkeys to burn his troops and score/contest on the otherside of the table. If he outflanks his Walkers (it may be tempting to try for early shots at Turkey-butt rear armour), which would be a mistake, send the Spawn after them to wipe face.

Also, his Seer Council is gonna have to go to work. Yes, they can survive, but they'll need to make sure they can get Terrify off for him to actually whittle down your troops. Otherwise, 80 Zombies (in cover if you can get it) may be too much to push off objectives.

I'd give a slight edge to Deldar thanks to those ridiculous powers, but remember Warlocks have a low LD.. Failing a key power at the wrong time could spell the Fall of the Deldar.

Really, though, if you have even a single Turkey left when the game ends, the game is yours.

I'm concerned about the warwalkers as well. They are a high priority target to me in terms of shooting.

I don't really need them to fail a lot of psychic tests.....only to fail a couple at the most opportune moment for me.

 Valek wrote:
That eldar list need a hemlock so desperatly, just to make sure you get that terrify!!

I do like the idea, though i would build the list more resillient.

It's already quite resilient unless if he goes full wave serpent skimmer-spam. The seer council IMO is still one of the toughest units to take down. The best way to take them down is in assault and even then, you can't lock them down.

Also, from my games/experiences with Grant, he tends to rolls like a mofo. His saves are pretty extreme. Either he makes them all and I can't kill jack or he fails a lot and concedes because he lost his seer council by Turn 2. So resiliency of the unit may depend on how he rolls.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
I was wondering, what is your plan for this new list of yours in general? I'm not sure how it can compete with more mobile lists. In my relatively inexperienced opinion, the zombies seem to lack a purpose. Sure they can objective camp, but they lack the numbers to properly push ahead. Imagine what a Tau gunline list would do to this list. The Maulers and Grinder would last 2 turns max and the zombies would be cleaned off the objectives in short order.

Of course, it is extremely possible that I am missing something dramatic.

It competes against more mobile lists by outlasting them. Zombies hold their ground and tie things up. Fast walkers and Typhus with spawn smack things around. Helturkeys burn things to the ground. If enemy offense is > than my resiliency, then they kill zombies. This is not a perfect list. It probably isn't even really competitive, but that's fine. To me, it looks like it would be a fun list to play and if you are not careful, it may even win a game of two.

 hippesthippo wrote:
Torrent rules should help navigate around tanking characters. I view the beast pack as an almost non-factor here barring a lucky quad gun.

I'd even think about putting both characters with the council and starting the beasts in reserve if I was playing Deldar and going second.

I agree. I think the only thing his beastpack will be doing is cowering somewhere in the corner until Turns 3-4 when they start going after the objectives.

Actually, my opponent won the roll for Initiative but opted to let me go first. Not a bad move, considering I hardly have any shooting.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CKO wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Beast unit is more resilient than that. Keep in mind that some of the guys in there have 4++ Invuln's. So with 6 of those guys in the front, they can potentially absorb up to 12W before he has to allocate on the more killy units. Then you could put characters in there as well or even cast Fortune.

I can't tie up the seer council because of the Baron, who gives the unit Hit & Run.

I slightly underestimated the durability of the beast unit but they should go down to the daemons shooting.

I still believe that the daemon list has enough shooting power to make the seer councils damage output insignificant, relying on psychic powers is another thing, each perils is 50 points.

And I hope they peril a lot!

thanatos67 wrote:
keeping in mind that protect is on a ld 8 psyker i think chaos should have this provided eldar doesnt perform a miracle and pass protect every turn. I'm really debating the councils effectiveness anymore with the low ld...they'll be really dead in the water vs. nids. I really like warwalkers though so i think they'll do really well, though i dont know if i like diversifying the unit to have half anti-infantry and half lances. I prefer starcannon/slazer or double bright lance personally. One wrecks any infantry and can still punish MCs and the other is decidedly good vs armor and can still dish on MCs as well.

It's ironic how eldar used to be a terrible draw for nids. Well, now the shoe is on the other foot. Tyranids now have one of the best psychic defenses (along with Space Wolves). I'm really loving the fact that they (eldar) will be getting a tast of their own medicine.

Warwalkers are still very good. I have to try to take them down ASAP.

 tanuvein wrote:
Seems like it will be a really interesting battle. I'm a big fan of Dark Eldar/Eldar hybrid lists, so really looking forward to seeing how this goes.

Also, it's Kabalite Warriors, not Kabolites.

My bad. I'll make the changes.

So eldar psychic powers can stack? (i.e the 2x empower on the warlocks) If so that is awesome...

edit: just checked my rulebook. still getting used to sixth edition

Ouch, bad start for Chaos. Better hope that Drake gets lucky vs those Walkers and can manage some explosions.

Why did he hit and run during his turn. If correct, that is a big mistake. Doubly so, as your Mauler may have range to make assault with his Walkers. Warlocks would prolly kill that Mauler while taking zero casualties and could HandR end of your turn if they didn't.

 hippesthippo wrote:
Ouch, bad start for Chaos. Better hope that Drake gets lucky vs those Walkers and can manage some explosions.

Why did he hit and run during his turn. If correct, that is a big mistake. Doubly so, as your Mauler may have range to make assault with his Walkers. Warlocks would prolly kill that Mauler while taking zero casualties and could HandR end of your turn if they didn't.

The mauler is immobilized, maybe he is tempting jy2 to fly the drake that way using them as bait otherwise I would agree with your assessment.

Hmm good point. Didn't catch that damage result.

I'm on the edge of my seat mashing the refresh button. Come onnnnnn turn 3!

You need to ally in Zahndrekh just to deny the Hit n Run.

Zombies and Typhus are Fearless why are they fleeing and morale checking?

Battle report completed.

 BladeWalker wrote:
Zombies and Typhus are Fearless why are they fleeing and morale checking?

Because of the psychic power Terrify.

 jy2 wrote:


Battle report completed.

 BladeWalker wrote:
Zombies and Typhus are Fearless why are they fleeing and morale checking?

Because of the psychic power Terrify.

Thank you sir, my brain was melting. Great report as usual, when I have to be away from gaming I can always count on your reports to bring me back up to speed.

I thought flyers couldn't contest or claim objectives?

Great match! Thanks for sharing it. Pretty impressive to see the Deldar list. They did even better than I expected, but I think a lot of that had to do with the powers rolled. Still, with a lock squad, those Perils can be damning (hah, I didn't even mean to do that!).