So i saw the new BA codex for display in my local GW and decided to take a looksie; someone even used thier BA army twith that codex. I think its scary.

4D6" S8 AP1 lance attack psi power, 3-30 death company. DC dreads as troops.... YES AS TROOPS.... LR redeemers that deepstrike... yes DEEPSTRIKE

well i thought i was just making a fuss like everyone does when a new codex comes out; i decided to watch a game and see how it plaed out. Do you all know mephiston? he is the size of a librarian W/o Terminator armor and well...... killed nightbringer in 1 round of CC... he is on a small base but has the toughness of a monsturous screature and has the chance to (with a psi power) have 10 S10 attacks......... he does NOT have an invulnerable save but regardless!!


wtf mates; but it is pretty rad making vallina marines even more vanilla

Is it just me, or does a similar reaction happen each time a new codex appears?

Maybe it is GW who wants everyone to buy new models when a new codex comes? So that it is much more important with a huge OMG!-effect than a balanced codex. It's trite, but they are more of a miniture company than a game company, and they have stock-holders to please.

Wait two months, play a lot of games with/against BA. Then consider the question again. Right now there is not much to discuss.

I'm more excited about Baal preds being fast all the time, and using FA slots than I am about any of the new stuff.

Nothing seems to bad yet about the codex, it seems that they are finally becoming the army that they were supposed to, not the over costed, oh my god its death company then it was before.

You're right, we should quit...

damn alot of flack, i didint say anyone should quit, and i stated i wasnt trying to be one of thos eOMG new codex person. i just saw something tha was like woa intense!


chill out internets!

Is it just me, or did only Willy and Mellon make sense?

Flying Landraiders get killed just like regular Landraiders. Faster infact, because they'll be closer sooner.

Dreads as Troops is cool, especially since they still can't score. Even if they can score, they'll not be very good at taking/holding objectives.

That shooting psychic power sounds really bad. You'll see on average 13" away, to a maximum of 24 (1 in 1296 chance of that happening, if I'm not mistaken).

That psycher lacks an invul save? Hello doomed IC.

That shooting power sounds like it is a nerfed version of the warp lance that tyranid gets in units of three.

I'd love to see the BA commander trying to tell a blood-crazed dreadnought to stay and hold the all important objective hidden safely out of sight of the enemy. Imagine the vox conversation:
Dante: - Brother Arztrathod, we need you to stay here and guard this supply drop while the rest of us gets to do all the crazy berserker fighting up ahead.
Arztrathod: - BAAARGH! MUST... DRINK... BLOOD!!! *stomps off*
;-)

Hopefully DCs, dreads or not, will not be allowed to hold objectives.

4D6" S8 AP1 lance attack psi power

Situational because of the ~14" range, and by the way seemingly the only worthwile BA specific psychic power.

3-30 death company, DC dreads as troops

DC are unimpressive. In fact the best thing about them is that if you take ten you can take two scoring Dreadnoughts.

LR redeemers that deepstrike

There aren't many situations when a player is going to deep strike a Land Raider. The unit costs 500+ points total and the risk of a mishap is huge. Additionally it might come into play way too late and so suffers from every same problem as most big Tyranid deep strikers. Atleast the Nid gribblies have the inertial guidance special rule and some models that add bonuses to reserve rolls.

Do you all know mephiston?

If Mephiston costs about 250 points he's going to see a lot of use because he also brings the mandatory psychic hood to the army. The largest annual European tournament doesn't allow named characters though.

Since Mephiston has a monstrous creature's statline we should compare him to a Hive Tyrant. Mephiston is stronger in every respect pretty much. He kills more of everything, including causing instant death in the Swarmlord because of the force weapon. He has one more wound than normal Tyrants, hides in infantry units and is generally faster. He's potentially hitting 8 times per turn with a S10 I10 force weapon, rerolling hits and wounds, while also having T6 and 5 wounds and a 2+ save to fall back on. I'm very interested in the accurate points cost. Blood Dragon Vampires in space, with blood-colored weapons of bloody doom!

Is there any known info about Deep striking Land raiders, ie: they can make use of teleport homers, or locator beacons, etc...? Because a land raider deepstriking is something to laugh at otherwise, if there are enough points to take one then the table is crowded, and there's a 67% chance you'll land on something, especially with a model that large.

The flying Land Raider has gotten a lot of talk around here.

Like we needed another reason to take loads and loads of meltaguns... they must like selling that bit. The price on combi-meltas is already insane.

Assume the Land Raider drops fine, fires a few rounds off, dumps it load that assaults and wipes a squad... assuming you've castled correctly and they can't get 2 units. Now your entire army can blast away at the unit and melta the Land Raider. Fair trade? Probably.

Mellon wrote:That shooting power sounds like it is a nerfed version of the warp lance that tyranid gets in units of three.

I'd love to see the BA commander trying to tell a blood-crazed dreadnought to stay and hold the all important objective hidden safely out of sight of the enemy. Imagine the vox conversation:
Dante: - Brother Arztrathod, we need you to stay here and guard this supply drop while the rest of us gets to do all the crazy berserker fighting up ahead.
Arztrathod: - BAAARGH! MUST... DRINK... BLOOD!!! *stomps off*
;-)

Hopefully DCs, dreads or not, will not be allowed to hold objectives.

Rumor is DC can't hold objectives. And dreads can't because they're vehicles. Unless they have some sort of special rule that allows dreads to hold objectives.

I posted this in a different thread but I think it's applicable here, too:

Certainly we'll have to wait and see the codex in totality before making any judgment calls about Good/Bad, but with current info regarding squad sizes and tentative point costs, this army is going to need some serious bonuses at short range to compete with Wolves/IG/basic Marines.

50 point rhinos adds up quickly, and the new Stormraven is seriously expensive considering its short range and its AV. If it was at least front 13, I'd think it'd be an okay buy, but the shorter range of its weaponry plus AV12 means that fielding it is a huge risk; either you Reserve it with all the risks that entails or you put it on the table and risk a gazillion S7-8 shots being pointed at it T1. Immunity to additional melta dice is nice, but at AV12 you don't need melta to knock it out.

The special deepstrike rules for jump pack infantry is really nice, but small squad sizes on their 'uber' units is a problem depending on how they're costed. Even with re-rolls, you still only have 3/4 of an army on T2 fighting your opponent's entire army, and competitive players know how to deal with drop-pod-esque lists.

First glance says this book is going to require a lot of massaging to play competitively. Like the Nid codex, it definitely doesn't seem like there are obvious 'win' combos that someone can download off the Internet and just start raping face with.

Just use the same anti psy stuff that you normaly use. My DI inqusitor and his mystic friends think a deepstriking landrader is herasy. As for bid daddy vampire, No inv saves means that lashwips and bone swords will bone him.

I have got to think that Mephiston can claim an invuln save somehow. I haven't seen the codex, admittedly, but for the Lord of Death to cost a rumored 250+ points and not have even a 4+ invul is just ridiculous. "Oh boy, he kills 5 Tac Marines. And dies to a single Power Fist hit".

It'd just be too much of an oversight. Tell me if I'm wrong.

sourclams wrote:Like the Nid codex, it definitely doesn't seem like there are obvious 'win' combos that someone can download off the Internet and just start raping face with.

Which is a good thing. Same thing with the Space Wolf codex before it. I think GW is learning.

All these Inq's with mystics (shakes heads). Soon they will be gone, soon.

I'm excited about Baal's in the FA slot. I like 3 Baals and 3 Preds to present six armor 13 vehicles. As long as the group is under 660pts I think that's a good deal and a serious option.

sourclams wrote:I have got to think that Mephiston can claim an invuln save somehow. I haven't seen the codex, admittedly, but for the Lord of Death to cost a rumored 250+ points and not have even a 4+ invul is just ridiculous. "Oh boy, he kills 5 Tac Marines. And dies to a single Power Fist hit".

It'd just be too much of an oversight. Tell me if I'm wrong.

He's T 6, so that's not happening...

I need to see the fluff reason for that.

I'm more concerned if the DS stuff is really only D6" scatter & re-roll on reserves, as that would definitely make the Land Raider a threat if held in reserves. That is, if anything in reserves gets those 2 rules - is it only the jump infantry?

However, I noticed with the Space Wolves that most [most] of the units are priced reasonably for what they get, so hopefully this will still be the case with BA?

DarkHound wrote:I need to see the fluff reason for that.

Vampire lords are tough as nails.

I'm not worried about it. Venomthropes will see a nice use when that dex hits shelves

Hoodwink wrote:I'm not worried about it. Venomthropes will see a nice use when that dex hits shelves

When that Dex hits? Venoms are already worked into my list

Which is a good thing. Same thing with the Space Wolf codex before it. I think GW is learning.

Meh, the AV11 spam wolf lists are a bit "win button."

I'm glad I've been thinking about starting a Berzerker army...

Dayum, that really gives Blood Angels a real reason to be happy.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:I'm glad I've been thinking about starting a Berzerker army...

Dayum, that really gives Blood Angels a real reason to be happy.

Yeah, Blood Angels are one of my least favorite chapters and I'm even excited about Fast, Outflanking Baal Predators with Flamestorm Cannons or Twin-linked Assault Cannons.

Ha well this thread got popular! Thinking of it without an invul save i KNOW Mephiston isn't that scary but like i mentioned i did see it take down nightbringer in CC. That DS landraider isn't too scary when you think of how many times it could mishap; and how easy it could. Rethinking anything i think 3 Baal predators with fast is a whole lot more scary, and i haven't once declared cheese, i actually like this codex. too bad im not BA

but with him being T6 nothing except a force weapon or a weapon that causes ID that can kill him.

DarthDiggler wrote:I'm excited about Baal's in the FA slot.

From what I've seen, this (Fast, Scouting Flamestorms) is the best thing in the codex. But even that comes at a serious cost -- they take up FA slots, which is where you get some of your best melta shots from.

I am most worried about mephiston...

T6, so no instant death from high strength attacks
he is Infantry with 5 wounds, so if he is hiding in a squad of 10 you are VERY unlikely to kill him with shooting.
I7 so hes almost always going first in combat
can attack with 8X S10 attacks that are likely to reroll hits+wounds, that ignore armor.

So kill him with shooting? nope, as tough as any tyranid MC, with a cover save and 10 albative wounds

Kill him in combat? nope, hes going first, hitting and wounding you 7 or 8 times at S10, if that doesnt instant kill your toons then he can just use the force weapon to ID them.

on top of all this, rumors are he costs about the same as the "uberkilly" characters like Ragnar Blackmane, who he would take out back and beat with a stick without breaking a sweat.

4D6" S8 AP1 lance attack psi power, 3-30 death company. DC dreads as troops.... YES AS TROOPS.... LR redeemers that deepstrike... yes DEEPSTRIKE

Looks gorgeous.

Eh i want to know HOW mephiston has T6 and W5 on an infantry base fluff wise. confusion! but i have an idea on how to beat him.


example: imperials: vindicares


example: chaos deamons: lots of pavane of slannesh from heralds and DP's, pull him out of coherency and send hordes or deamonettes and especially the masque in there. rendting on 6's anyways!

orks: hide a nob w/ powerklaw in a squadof 20+ boyz, can't beat that power weapon when he has no invulnerable.

I heard that he does not have the IC special rule, so you won't be able to hide him in another unit.

Oh. Huh. So, he's a TMC then? Well, looks like my Laspred is going to be getting his points back in droves.

I think that Abbadon could give Mephiston a run for his money. But It does seem quite rediculous. Anyone know Mephistons Initiative?

I7, apparently. So, unless Abbydoobydoo gets some great Invul saves, he's toast.

willydstyle wrote:I heard that he does not have the IC special rule, so you won't be able to hide him in another unit.

If true I'm going to need Mephiston decals for kill-markings on my Vendettas.

sourclams wrote:

willydstyle wrote:I heard that he does not have the IC special rule, so you won't be able to hide him in another unit.

If true I'm going to need Mephiston decals for kill-markings on my Vendettas.

BWAHHAHAH i'll need them for my oblitorator's bases.



and yes he can easily kill IC's around or less than his points like Abby, logan and the nightbringer easy. with the potential for 10 S10 I7 attacks; but out a keeper of secrets or an avatar, something with a higher I

I KNOW HOW TO SLOVE THIS, PLASMA!
And Lots of template weapons that are ap 3 or below!
Sternguard army here i come!

Good for you, you slove the plasma until it's nice and slovenly.

Without the IC rule or an invulnerable save, he's pretty much a TMC.

And if you can't deal with him, you'd lose to a TMC list anyway, so there's nothing new here.

Stormravens are more expensive and easier to kill than Falcons. If you can't kill three easily, you'll lose to Mechdar anyway, so there's nothing new here.

Personally I think GW has done a great job with all of the 5th edition codex releases -- they're all good, they're all competitive, and there aren't any clear winners in overall power level.

As a result of all of them being good and competitive, we see the same cries of OH MY GOD OVERPOWERED CHEESE on release that dies down about the time the next codex comes out.

While I haven't really had the opportunity to peruse the codex yet and still have questions (pricing/options on Razorbacks and Predators? options on Assault Squads?), I don't think Blood Angels will be noticeably more powerful than vanilla marines or Space Wolves. In the end, they get some spiffy new toys, but nothing game breaking, and then have to pay more for some of their basic stuff (and then get the hitch that the rules on their marines aren't even reliable), and what they pay is pretty much balanced with what they get.

Fundamentally, over a standard marine list, they get:

1) Mephiston, who is basically a TMC (and you have to deal with TMCs already)
2) Stormravens, which are dangerous AV12 skimmers (which you have to deal with already because of Eldar)
3) Fast Scouting Flamestorm cannons, which are good, but have glaring weaknesses (i.e., loss of ideal melta/missile launcher platform spots, uselessness if the opponent deploys all in reserve)
4) Assault Marines as troops, which just aren't very good in the first place, and at best have a 50% chance of getting the special rule that makes them not suck.

So, meh. They'll be good, they'll be competitive, and they'll be a threat. Just like all of the other recent codices. Plenty of players will die horribly to one or the other of the new tricks, but they'd die horribly to one of the existing lists that gets the exact same tricks (and often cheaper to boot).

The difference is that mephiston is an infantry sized TMC, so he can easily hide behind things.

sourclams wrote:I have got to think that Mephiston can claim an invuln save somehow. I haven't seen the codex, admittedly, but for the Lord of Death to cost a rumored 250+ points and not have even a 4+ invul is just ridiculous. "Oh boy, he kills 5 Tac Marines. And dies to a single Power Fist hit".

It'd just be too much of an oversight. Tell me if I'm wrong.

He's T6 with up to 10 attacks on the charge @ I7, force weapon (I've heard). So, it's more like, Oh boy, he eats everything and the powerfist doesn't even strike. Even if it does, he is T6 and so loses 1 of his 5 wounds.

So yea, no invul save (like last time), but still a monster.

EDIT: I7 not 10, my mistake

Also, if he doesn't have the IC rule he just got a LOT less scary. Without the ablative wounds of a squad he may not be worth his points cost.

Someone mentioned AP3 or less against him? you mean AP 2 or less; he has a 2+ save.

Sounds like the tried-and-true method of beating MEQs will still prevail... just takes lotsa plasma and try to stay out of CC!

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Sounds like the tried-and-true method of beating MEQs will still prevail... just takes lotsa plasma and try to stay out of CC!

6 bs4 plasma guns and 9 bs3 plasma cannons enough? I'm itching to play this list, personally.

Out of all the new editions I am most excited about meltaguns with assault squads and fast vehicles.

apwill4765 wrote:

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Sounds like the tried-and-true method of beating MEQs will still prevail... just takes lotsa plasma and try to stay out of CC!

6 bs4 plasma guns and 9 bs3 plasma cannons enough? I'm itching to play this list, personally.

PC's are NOT S9 ther are still S7

IronfrontAlex wrote:

apwill4765 wrote:

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Sounds like the tried-and-true method of beating MEQs will still prevail... just takes lotsa plasma and try to stay out of CC!

6 bs4 plasma guns and 9 bs3 plasma cannons enough? I'm itching to play this list, personally.

PC's are NOT S9 ther are still S7

I think he was saying thats how many shots of plasma cannons he has. so 9 plasma cannon shots.

So wait, Mephiston is not an IC? Well that's too bad. I was planning on making a Mephsquigton model

willydstyle wrote:I heard that he does not have the IC special rule, so you won't be able to hide him in another unit.

willy, where did you hear this? Can anybody who has seen the codex confirm?

if he dosen't have the IC rule he will be easier to kill.

If he doesn't have IC and can get a retinue then he just got impossable to kill.

The thing that I am most worried about is the valkarie thing that can carry drednoughts.

i have heard they will be getting a Librarian dreadnought, is this true?

He's T6 with up to 10 attacks on the charge @ I7, force weapon (I've heard)

+D3 attacks from the power not +D6. So he has 5+D3 during his own turn.

Assuming for example a Saga of Bear Thunderwolf mounted Wolf Lord charges him, he only has 5 attacks and causes only 0,74 wounds. Then the SW dude swings with a wolf necklaced power fist and causes 3,33 wounds on average. With above average rolling Mephiston can die right here (6 attacks that require 3+ to hit and 2+ to wound). Assuming Mephiston doesn't die, next turn he casts preferred enemy on himself, +D3 attacks and S10. Mephiston will cause 1,72 wounds, and if the Wolf Lord isn't dead now (sometimes he will be, sometimes he has 1 wound remaining, it's 50/50), he will die.

My point? He's most powerful in CC, but even there a non-special character can keel him more often than not. How 'cheesy' or powerful he is can't be determined before we know how much he costs. Naturally his character/monster status will affect him as well. If he can't join units at all and can't get a retinue, he's toast. Assault armies will shoot two wounds on him and finish him in close combat. Shooty armies will just introduce Mephiston to their the lascannons, meltaguns and plasma guns.

Therion wrote:
Assuming for example a Saga of Bear Thunderwolf mounted Wolf Lord charges him, he only has 5 attacks and causes only 0,74 wounds. Then the SW dude swings with a wolf necklaced power fist and causes 3,33 wounds on average. With above average rolling Mephiston can die right here (6 attacks that require 3+ to hit and 2+ to wound). Assuming Mephiston doesn't die, next turn he casts preferred enemy on himself, +D3 attacks and S10. Mephiston will cause 1,72 wounds, and if the Wolf Lord isn't dead now (sometimes he will be, sometimes he has 1 wound remaining, it's 50/50), he will die.

Hmm... such a well-equiped Wolf Lord would run into the points cost of around a LR as well, which is pretty much how much Mephiston is rumoured to cost as well. An epic clash of heroes, I like it.

Same here. Heroes of his calibre should be able to clash with others in epic glory-bouts. I dig the imagery behind it!

If he can ride in a transport, that does give him an edge... the landraider rolls up, the ramp drops, and one guy strolls out... Also, his hood will most likely keep him from getting force weaponed to death. T6 doesn't really seem reasonable - T5 and cheaper would be more in line with other codexes. He does have a 2+ save, so he's safe from any non power weapon foes, otherwise you could probably beat him to death with poisoned hormagaunts or the like.

Grey Templar wrote:i have heard they will be getting a Librarian dreadnought, is this true?

"Dreadnaught – Can upgrade to Venerable, Furioso, and Furioso Librarian
Furioso Librarian have a single Blood Talon and Force Weapon, they have to choose which to use in close combat, but they DO get the +1 attack for having multiple CCWs. They can take 2 Blood Angel psychic powers (including Wings of Sanguinius) and has a Psychic Hood."

"Blood Talons - close combat weapons on the Furioso Dreadnought. A dreadnought CCW with a Stormbolter, likely upgradeable to Meltagun/Heavy Flamer.

Magna-Grapples - A R12” S8 anti-vehicle harpoon weapon for Dreadnaughts. On a successful Penetrating or Glancing hit, the target vehicle is dragged 2D6" toward the Dreadnought, facing unchanged. Will only pull a vehicle as far as the edge of Terrain or 1" away from (friendly?) models. It has been said it can cause Tank Shock."

Magna-Grapples: it's like half and half of Lash/pavane...though it looks like something from Warmachine

Can't wait to see how chaosy people make the BA codex...

thats freakin amazing

must resist the call of the vampire

hehehe.... I think i am going to go back into BA.... I Just sold all of mine... so i guess i am starting over =p
Won't this be fun....

IronfrontAlex wrote:Eh i want to know HOW mephiston has T6 and W5 on an infantry base fluff wise. confusion! but i have an idea on how to beat him.


example: imperials: vindicares


example: chaos deamons: lots of pavane of slannesh from heralds and DP's, pull him out of coherency and send hordes or deamonettes and especially the masque in there. rendting on 6's anyways!

orks: hide a nob w/ powerklaw in a squadof 20+ boyz, can't beat that power weapon when he has no invulnerable.

According to the rules, if your high T6 Characters is in a squad of T4 Marines, he would be subject to the majority T4. As a result. wouldn't that mean that anything S8+ would instant kill him?

no, it would mean weapons would roll to wound as if he was T4, but he could take a lascannon and be fine

Tiny Geek wrote:According to the rules, if your high T6 Characters is in a squad of T4 Marines, he would be subject to the majority T4. As a result. wouldn't that mean that anything S8+ would instant kill him?

it has been mentioned a couple times in the thread that he is rumor to NOT have the independent character rule/status so he can't join a squad. he is in effect a one man infantry unit with the statline of a TMC (but not the special rules).

Therion wrote:Since Mephiston has a monstrous creature's statline we should compare him to a Hive Tyrant. Mephiston is stronger in every respect pretty much. He kills more of everything, including causing instant death in the Swarmlord because of the force weapon. He has one more wound than normal Tyrants, hides in infantry units and is generally faster. He's potentially hitting 8 times per turn with a S10 I10 force weapon, rerolling hits and wounds, while also having T6 and 5 wounds and a 2+ save to fall back on. I'm very interested in the accurate points cost. Blood Dragon Vampires in space, with blood-colored weapons of bloody doom!

actually, i'd put my bet down on the hive tyrant. the hive tyrant with implant attack is cheaper (185 vs 250+ for mephy), comes standard with lashwhips and boneswords so mephiston will go last. the tyrant hits on 3+ and rerolls 1's, and wounds on a 4+ with no save for mephy. if any of them wound, mephy has to take a ld check for instant death. if a single 6 is rolled to wound, he get instakilled with no roll. if he does survive, he has to take all those psychic tests (and the force weapon is a psychic test too remember) on 3d6 in order to buff up. if he flubs those with a peril of the warp, he takes more wounds because he doesn't have an invul save. so, he has to actually surivive the HT attacks, then not off himself with really bad psychic tests, and then finally hit/wound. yeah, it's safe to say i'll NEVER charge a hive tyrant with mephy because of that. there's more to a character than just the naked statline.

Mephy is not nearly as scary as he was when people thought he was an IC and could hide in a squad for ablative wounds.

Each melta shot is one lost wound, each plasma shot is one less wound. Each rending hit is one less wound.

To get buffed up he has to pass psychic checks, those might fail on their own. Any sort of anti-psycher equipment on the opposing army and he looses even more power.

Thunderhammers will make his I7 moot in the following rounds of combat, as he will be striking last. So typical assault termies will be good against him. Either style, TH that make him hit last next round or Lightning claws that get to reroll to wounds.

Sure he is going to kick some butt, but he wont be unstoppable. That fact that he isn't an IC is the balancing factor.

Jayden63 wrote:Mephy is not nearly as scary as he was when people thought he was an IC and could hide in a squad for ablative wounds.

Each melta shot is one lost wound, each plasma shot is one less wound. Each rending hit is one less wound.

To get buffed up he has to pass psychic checks, those might fail on their own. Any sort of anti-psycher equipment on the opposing army and he looses even more power.

Thunderhammers will make his I7 moot in the following rounds of combat, as he will be striking last. So typical assault termies will be good against him. Either style, TH that make him hit last next round or Lightning claws that get to reroll to wounds.

Sure he is going to kick some butt, but he wont be unstoppable. That fact that he isn't an IC is the balancing factor.

Everyone keeps saying he isn't, but has that been confirmed? all I recall is one person saying he might not be then eveyone else letting out a sigh of relief, but untill I have some sort of confirmation that he is not an IC, I'm not going to jump to conclusions.

What I would do with mephiston is run him with another regular librarian within the 5+ cover save psy power's 6". It would probably be invaluable to him in the shooting phase!

Of course, as stated, any psychic hoods or other anti-psyker equipment would kind of ruin this. This looks like more of a reason to include a inquisitor now.

If Mr. Memph isn't an IC, my Soon-to-be Steel legion Vets shouldn't be so scared of him

If he isn't an IC he will likely have access to a retinue and that would be nasty.

Personally i doubt he won't be an IC. wouldn't make sense Fluff wise. Balance wise it might work, but with GWs track record how often do they go with game mechanics and not marketing. he will be uber so they can sell BAs

Sanctjud wrote:Magna-Grapples: it's like half and half of Lash/pavane...though it looks like something from Warmachine

Can't wait to see how chaosy people make the BA codex...

I don't mind it; i just think the codex art is pretty much the worst one to date


Automatically Appended Next Post:
all in all i was concerned that Mephy was a IC and that scared the crap out of me. though is he confirmed to be a MC in the codex? if then he is infantry sized but cannont join groups.



hey on a 6 he can turn into a chaos spawn


and on a roll of he can still become a squig

Reliable sources say that he is not a IC.

then i am not too scared in him; at least not as much as i was. I will treat him like a C'tan and just avoid him at all costs. he does not have a jump pack so he is foot slogging. im curious can he be put in a rhino or LR? he is infantry base size..

IronfrontAlex wrote:Eh i want to know HOW mephiston has T6 and W5 on an infantry base fluff wise. confusion! but i have an idea on how to beat him.

They didn't want him instakilled by a stray railgun shot.

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:Eh i want to know HOW mephiston has T6 and W5 on an infantry base fluff wise. confusion! but i have an idea on how to beat him.

They didn't want him instakilled by a stray railgun shot.

So instead they made him all but immune to most infantry weaponry in the game. Wounding on 6s, having to chew through, 5 wounds, and a 2+ armor save.

Mephy is a classic case of fanboy orgasm. There is no reason for him to have the stats that he does. The codex writer wanted to create the next C-tan and ***** everything else.

Jayden63 wrote:

Mephy is a classic case of fanboy orgasm. There is no reason for him to have the stats that he does. The codex writer wanted to create the next C-tan and ***** everything else.

Shouldn't be surprising looking at how each codex is more powerful than the last. At this rate, Tau firewarrios will be carrying full-sized railguns under their arms by the time we get an update.

agnosto wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:

Mephy is a classic case of fanboy orgasm. There is no reason for him to have the stats that he does. The codex writer wanted to create the next C-tan and ***** everything else.

Shouldn't be surprising looking at how each codex is more powerful than the last. At this rate, Tau firewarrios will be carrying full-sized railguns under their arms by the time we get an update.

Woo, I have 36 of those buggers just waiting. Seriously, my Tau have been sitting on the shelf for a while now. Scouting, fast, baal preds with inferno cannons. Yeah, the lowly firewarrior is much safer sitting on the shelf and letting the rest of the 40K universe battle it out for a while.

It's always fun to see what people are getting out of the new Codex....lots of "ooh shiny" going on.

Yes Mephiston is NOT and IC. However, since he's not an IC that means OTHER IC's can join HIM. So you can have a "unit" of Mephiston, a Captin, and nine priests all running around with jetpacks. It's completely slowed and will die in a hearbeat, but god it's going to be so much fun to do.

That being said, I'm supprised no one mentioned the most important thing in the codex that is going to make BA one of the best armies around. Every unit can get Feel No Pain.

IronfrontAlex wrote:Eh i want to know HOW mephiston has T6 and W5 on an infantry base fluff wise. confusion! but i have an idea on how to beat him.

I dont know why you would even question that. He is the size of a man but over came the red thirst, something no one else has ever done. And he was clinging to life for 7 days under ruble that killed all the other Death Company that he was with in the assault then got up bursting free from the ruins. I mean the man is a vampire space marine the question is why cant he become a bat lol. I mean the other Death Company all died and he comes out bursting free pretty much a walking demi-god. The dudes nick name is the Lord Of Death.

If Mephistophihercules isn't an IC, no IC's can join him either b/c he is a unit that only EVER consists of one model. It's the rule that prevents me from joining a Tyranid Prime and Parasite of Mortrex together with Doom of Malan'tai to prevent him from getting shot to death by ID lascannons/meltas.

I think 18 hormagaunts with toxin sacs and poison could force quite a few saves off of old mephy, if they can get to him that is.

Ninja'ed

tetrisphreak wrote:If Mephistophihercules isn't an IC, no IC's can join him either b/c he is a unit that only EVER consists of one model. It's the rule that prevents me from joining a Tyranid Prime and Parasite of Mortrex together with Doom of Malan'tai to prevent him from getting shot to death by ID lascannons/meltas.

Right. You can join Independent Characters together to form one large group of Independent Characters. So yes, you could join a Tyranid Prime and Parasite of Mortrex together, but not to Doom, because he's not an IC. Just like you can join Eldrad and any Phoenix Lord. What's more, they can both join a unit, making the unit uber killy.

However, what keeps something like Mephiston from joining a unit (if he's not an IC) is the fact that it says you can never join models that only -ever- consist of a single model (read monstrous creatures here). It continues to give you a caveat that says that multiple Independent characters may join together to form a unit.

Hence, Mephiston (if he's not an IC) can never join a unit. What's more, he wouldn't be able to hitch a ride in a transport with another unit either.

darwinn69 wrote:It's always fun to see what people are getting out of the new Codex....lots of "ooh shiny" going on.

Yes Mephiston is NOT and IC. However, since he's not an IC that means OTHER IC's can join HIM. So you can have a "unit" of Mephiston, a Captin, and nine priests all running around with jetpacks. It's completely slowed and will die in a hearbeat, but god it's going to be so much fun to do.

That being said, I'm supprised no one mentioned the most important thing in the codex that is going to make BA one of the best armies around. Every unit can get Feel No Pain.

uhh how can the get FNP?


and i dont CARE what great things Mephiston did in order to somehow get W5 and T6. hey apparently it takes 100 grey knights to kill a DP, and calgar killed an avatar in CC fluffwise and you don't see those units having uberstats

Fair enough, missed that little blurb before the bullet points on page 48.


Every unit gets Feel No Pain and Furrious Charge because of Sangutaionary (sp?) priests 6" raduis. Take 3 of them as one eliete choice and that will be enough to cover your entire army...all for a measly 150 points(plus equipment.

Now that is annoying. not scary; annoying

darwinn69 wrote:Fair enough, missed that little blurb before the bullet points on page 48.


Every unit gets Feel No Pain and Furrious Charge because of Sangutaionary (sp?) priests 6" raduis. Take 3 of them as one eliete choice and that will be enough to cover your entire army...all for a measly 150 points(plus equipment.

If you can split them up sure. Are they upgrades? Are they elite choices? Can they be split? Remember, the kings of splitting FOC slots, the Tyranids, were curbed with their codex. Now Lictors run in packs.

Is it too much to ask to wait until the Codex is actually released before saying something is too powerful?

no, this is the internets.

Its ok, us Blood Angel players know better. We won't have a grossly-overpowered codex, but we will finally be able to compete with the other new codex releases. I am just happy to get the new Storm Shield, the old 4++ in CC just doesn't cut it for my Assault Terminators.

IronfrontAlex wrote:

darwinn69 wrote:It's always fun to see what people are getting out of the new Codex....lots of "ooh shiny" going on.

Yes Mephiston is NOT and IC. However, since he's not an IC that means OTHER IC's can join HIM. So you can have a "unit" of Mephiston, a Captin, and nine priests all running around with jetpacks. It's completely slowed and will die in a hearbeat, but god it's going to be so much fun to do.

That being said, I'm supprised no one mentioned the most important thing in the codex that is going to make BA one of the best armies around. Every unit can get Feel No Pain.

uhh how can the get FNP?


and i dont CARE what great things Mephiston did in order to somehow get W5 and T6. hey apparently it takes 100 grey knights to kill a DP, and calgar killed an avatar in CC fluffwise and you don't see those units having uberstats

Lol Mephiston fluff wise can kill everything you listed imo the guy is almost un-killable hes a step below a primarch. I mean hes the lord of death you dont get that name for nothing. He is a one man army in the fluff he held off whole companies of blood angels and the reborn (these are also fluff marines 1 marine can kill thousands of trained men) with his retinue during the whole Arkio's ordeal. You are comparing a Angel to Daemons and mortals. Hes in his whole new class of slowed powerful, its like a man turning into a vampire but this happened to a space marine who was already a gifted individual and now that power has been multiplied 100 fold. Plus he talks to Sanguinius in visions so he must be of great importance. He is even said to be the best psycher in the IoM. Fluff wise i know of no one with his talents the fluff literally calls him a one man army.

FoeHammer wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:

darwinn69 wrote:It's always fun to see what people are getting out of the new Codex....lots of "ooh shiny" going on.

Yes Mephiston is NOT and IC. However, since he's not an IC that means OTHER IC's can join HIM. So you can have a "unit" of Mephiston, a Captin, and nine priests all running around with jetpacks. It's completely slowed and will die in a hearbeat, but god it's going to be so much fun to do.

That being said, I'm supprised no one mentioned the most important thing in the codex that is going to make BA one of the best armies around. Every unit can get Feel No Pain.

uhh how can the get FNP?


and i dont CARE what great things Mephiston did in order to somehow get W5 and T6. hey apparently it takes 100 grey knights to kill a DP, and calgar killed an avatar in CC fluffwise and you don't see those units having uberstats

Im beginning to suffer from my own form of black rage in the form of fanboys....



who has the same epic survivability of mephiston fluffwise?

ragnar/abbadon/any grey knight any surviving lamenters marines :p

oh no! he survived what seems to me to be some sort of withdrawl which makes him really angry!

Lol Mephiston fluff wise can kill everything you listed imo the guy is almost un-killable hes a step below a primarch. I mean hes the lord of death you dont get that name for nothing. He is a one man army in the fluff he held off whole companies of blood angels and the reborn (these are also fluff marines 1 marine can kill thousands of trained men) with his retinue during the whole Arkio's ordeal. You are comparing a Angel to Daemons and mortals. Hes in his whole new class of slowed powerful, its like a man turning into a vampire but this happened to a space marine who was already a gifted individual and now that power has been multiplied 100 fold. Plus he talks to Sanguinius in visions so he must be of great importance. He is even said to be the best psycher in the IoM. Fluff wise i know of no one with his talents the fluff literally calls him a one man army.

lol not even he is far stronger then them he can fight a Gods avatar toe to toe and probably win. Name one of those you listed that can fight off whole space marine companies i know for a fact ragnar cant and abby couldn't. And Lamaters and grey knights are laughable at the levels of greatness we are talking here. He became part of the death company by the black rage and over came it no one else has, it then transformed him into the Lord of Death. His stat line suites him imo.

FoeHammer wrote:lol not even he is far stronger then them he can fight a Gods avatar toe to toe and probably win. Name one of those you listed that can fight off whole space marine companies i know for a fact ragnar cant and abby couldn't. And Lamaters and grey knights are laughable at the levels of greatness we are talking here. He became part of the death company by the black rage and over came it no one else has, it then transformed him into the Lord of Death. His stat line suites him imo.

And Ghazghkull will STILL krush him like the weedy 'oomie he is.

T3:humans, you and me
T4: very resilient, able to shrug off blows a normal human would fall to; superhuman
T5: supernatural ammount of resillience, i think Mephiston should have been around here
T6: something monsturous or godly, or non organic.


i know someone who could beat mephiston! outside of the easy ways in game fluffwise im thinking cypher! :p

Mephiston needs stats that makes normal marines speak of him as a freak.

puma713 wrote:

darwinn69 wrote:Fair enough, missed that little blurb before the bullet points on page 48.


Every unit gets Feel No Pain and Furrious Charge because of Sangutaionary (sp?) priests 6" raduis. Take 3 of them as one eliete choice and that will be enough to cover your entire army...all for a measly 150 points(plus equipment.

If you can split them up sure. Are they upgrades? Are they elite choices? Can they be split? Remember, the kings of splitting FOC slots, the Tyranids, were curbed with their codex. Now Lictors run in packs.

They are an elite choice, and are are independent characters...so you can split them up and hide them in squads. You get three for one slot, meaning you can take up to 9 in one army. They have sargent stat line in power armor and you can upgrade them with terminator/jump pack power weapon and standard equipment.

T6: something monsturous or godly, or non organic.

That's T8. T6 is just a generic billy badass level.

It's just strange Mephiston and Dante have been around for 1K years but they still haven't found a storm shield in the Blood Angels armoury. When Mephiston finally finds one the Chaos gods will die and the universe will implode.

Demogerg wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Mephy is not nearly as scary as he was when people thought he was an IC and could hide in a squad for ablative wounds.

Each melta shot is one lost wound, each plasma shot is one less wound. Each rending hit is one less wound.

To get buffed up he has to pass psychic checks, those might fail on their own. Any sort of anti-psycher equipment on the opposing army and he looses even more power.

Thunderhammers will make his I7 moot in the following rounds of combat, as he will be striking last. So typical assault termies will be good against him. Either style, TH that make him hit last next round or Lightning claws that get to reroll to wounds.

Sure he is going to kick some butt, but he wont be unstoppable. That fact that he isn't an IC is the balancing factor.

Everyone keeps saying he isn't, but has that been confirmed? all I recall is one person saying he might not be then eveyone else letting out a sigh of relief, but untill I have some sort of confirmation that he is not an IC, I'm not going to jump to conclusions.

"Mephiston: Well, his stat line makes him out to be quite the monster. On par with the Swarm Lord actually. Has 3 Psychic powers, one makes him S10, the other lets him move like jump infantry and the last gives preferred enemy – he also has a force weapon, oh and he fleets. He also has a power that forces a Ld test at -4 on a character – if he fails, Meph gets to re-roll To Hit and To Wound rolls. Things to note: he does not have an invulnerable save, nor is he an independent character. That means he is on his own, unless your transport him...to be honest I can easily consider putting him in a Land Raider or a Storm Raven to go wreak havoc alone. He is one of the strongest CC characters in the game, but lacks a few of the tools necessary to get there in one piece. You probably get one turn to blow him away, because until he gets up close you can bet he'll be hiding behind terrain/vehicles – and with cover, he will be dodging the low ap high S shots half of the time.

That said, many of his abilities are psychic powers and as such good psyker defence will make him considerably easier to deal with. There is also the chance of PotW, which he has no protection whatsoever against. This guy is easily one of the stronger characters out there, but has shortcomings that can be exploited – plasma/melta to the face will still give him headaches. So do invulnerable saves; popular CC choices like Seer Councils and TH/SS Terminators will hurt him – in fact, Mephiston will very likely die to 5 of the latter, even if he gets the assault (and his preferred enemy power)! He is great at mushing vehicles, though. All in all he is quite nasty, but the lack of IC status and an invulnerable save makes him much more manageable that I thought at first. Oh yeah, he also doesn't have EW so things like boneswords, force weapons, wraithcannons and the like will have fun sending him into the warp or whatever."


But what I'm more excited about is this:

"Corbulo: Alright, so he's definitely better in combat than his generic counterparts and gives you one (1) free re-roll a game, applicable anywhere. You can re-roll to see who goes first, or whatever, if that's your fancy. The game-breaker (imo) is applying that single re-roll to see if the game ends. That...is huge. Games are won or lost depending on whether or not the game ends on turn 5 (or 6, 7) and good old 'Corb lets you screw around with that. He also gives FNP to himself on 2+ instead of the regular 4+. The only downside is that he can't take a jump pack, so I'd use him as part of a land raider-oriented assault force, or maybe in a rhino so that his FNP/FC bubble is huge."

Some guy's blog about his impression of reading the BA codex. You can read more here: http://ottawagamer.blogspot.com/2010/03/blood-angels-first-impressions-guest.html

Jesus.....Everyone is reading the Fleshtearers guy's rules wrong. They keep mixing him up with that grim super chaplain dude with the axe (name isn't coming to me right now).

Sorry, the guy in the blog is around the 15th post I've seen that get's them mixed up.

Seth does not allow you to fail your red thirst test on a 3 or less. Astorath (found the name!) is the one who does this. He also makes DC not 0-1 anymore. DC army with a few scouts here we come!

(Standard caveat applies in case I read it wrong today )

Just avoid that blog. The guy got a lot of stuff wrong and then posts an illegal army list on top of it as an example of things you can build in the new codex. Awesome sauce.....

Therion wrote:

T6: something monsturous or godly, or non organic.

That's T8. T6 is just a generic billy badass level.

It's just strange Mephiston and Dante have been around for 1K years but they still haven't found a storm shield in the Blood Angels armoury. When Mephiston finally finds one the Chaos gods will die and the universe will implode.

ok then what other marine who is badass has T6? and how many have T5? like none.

Night Lords counts-as Blood Angels FTW!

Night Lords counts-as Blood Angels FTW!

I LIKE this idea. I like it a lot.

It makes me wish there was a set of bat wings that were as detailed as the Sanguinary Guard wings, though(I think that's their name).

I'm happy to see Blood Angels get a new codex, even if they are just another Space Marine chapter. They'd gone a long time without a decent one, and I like their primarch best out of the loyalists.

So is anyone else thinking that Astorath would make a killer Slaanesh Lord if he was modified and painted right?

HERESY!



But yeah. That would look good.

What are Seth's rules, if not the increased chance to Red Thirst?

All that I remember is that his gigantic chainsword is rending, IRC, and the red thirst thing. Other than that I think he is just like a normal captain or chapter master.

...This is probably the dumbest codex I've ever read any rumors of. Also, being that a lot of this seems to be real I can't help but just be amazed at this crap.

Have fun with your Edward Cullen armies. Hopefully you can beat Jacob Wolves and be "SUPER BADASS" drinking blood and stuff. YAWN. Can't wait to fight entire FNP armies.

Also, BA seriously get Sternguard.. So, the ONLY decent C:SM veteran option is given to another book? SWEET. Should I just buy the can of red spray paint now?

Yes. And some cheese, to go with that wine

I prefer winsleydale, myself!

can i get some sharp cheddar with a nice cab with some of this? :p

while i watch twilight?

Shelegelah wrote:

Night Lords counts-as Blood Angels FTW!

I LIKE this idea. I like it a lot.

It makes me wish there was a set of bat wings that were as detailed as the Sanguinary Guard wings, though(I think that's their name).

I'm happy to see Blood Angels get a new codex, even if they are just another Space Marine chapter. They'd gone a long time without a decent one, and I like their primarch best out of the loyalists.

So is anyone else thinking that Astorath would make a killer Slaanesh Lord if he was modified and painted right?

Bat wings are lame. Just paint the angel wings raven-black. If you absolutely have to have bat wings, however, here you go:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1110177&rootCatGameStyle=
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1140245&rootCatGameStyle=

Use these for the characters: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1140263&rootCatGameStyle=

And honestly, folks, most of the stuff in the army is not that scary. The big bad characters are not ICs. The Sanguinary Guard are 40 points a pop. The Priests granting FNP are nice, but they are 75 points barebones with a jump-pack, and also cannot join units. The real scary BA list will be 3 Baal Predators, 3 Vindicators, some cheapo HQ, and troops in land raiders/fast rhinos. Now THAT's an armored company.

Bat wings are lame. Just paint the angel wings raven-black. If you absolutely have to have bat wings, however, here you go:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1110177&rootCatGameStyle=
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1140245&rootCatGameStyle=

Use these for the characters: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1140263&rootCatGameStyle=

And honestly, folks, most of the stuff in the army is not that scary. The big bad characters are not ICs. The Sanguinary Guard are 40 points a pop. The Priests granting FNP are nice, but they are 75 points barebones with a jump-pack, and also cannot join units. The real scary BA list will be 3 Baal Predators, 3 Vindicators, some cheapo HQ, and troops in land raiders/fast rhinos. Now THAT's an armored company.

While I disagree with your bat wings are lame comment, I cannot possibly thank you enough for pointing these out to me! Think those nightmare wings will be too big on something the size of a sorcerer model?

Edit: Yup, looks like they're a bit large, but hey... Winged Daemon prince... How did I overlook these? Thanks again.

terminus wrote:The Priests granting FNP are nice, but they are 75 points barebones with a jump-pack, and also cannot join units.

Aren't they ICs? Why shouldn't they be able to join units?

I live to serve . Just put in a good word to Slaanesh for me.

Here's a Nightmare it you need a scale reference. http://fantasygames.pl/images/BloodDragononWingedNightmare.jpg

It you shorten the base (part that attaches to the body) they should be fine. Look at Astaroth and Sanguinor, their wings are pretty massive. Daemon Prince or not, though, I would still count them decorative for LOS purposes.

As for bat wings being lame, I think that's just because I can't help remembering those goofy helmets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kveldulv wrote:

terminus wrote:The Priests granting FNP are nice, but they are 75 points barebones with a jump-pack, and also cannot join units.

Aren't they ICs? Why shouldn't they be able to join units?

Ignore that, I was way wrong. I'm picturing a list with a core of 3 Storm Ravens, two carrying Assault Squads with Priest and DC dreads, and the other carrying DC with a Chaplain and a Librarian dread.

Then spend the rest on Baal preds, more troops (scouts?), and Sternguard. Apparently Assault Squads can drop their packs towards the cost of a transport, so there are some cheap Razorbacks for more snooty (maybe stick the scouts in there to make them scoring), or free rhinos to loan to the Sternguard. An Assault Terminator squad with furious charge and FNP would also be obscene.

It's a damn shame there won't be a 'Raven model for a while.

An Assault Terminator squad with furious charge and FNP would also be obscene.

-oh... didn't even register that combo... so rusty I am.

There are so many good options, heavy competition in the FA/HQ slots. Hvies aren't too different, while troops are an interesting choice to make.

Interesting, seems the SPriest cost the same thing as a Naked Techmarine in C:SM...6" bubble for FNP and FC vs. +1 Cover save on only a ruin...I don't know, but there is a clear winner IMO.

Heh, Pre-Heresy Death Guard, when they were less tough and more angry... Can't wait to see faces when I try and fail horribly to work that angle.

IronfrontAlex wrote:

Therion wrote:

T6: something monsturous or godly, or non organic.

That's T8. T6 is just a generic billy badass level.

It's just strange Mephiston and Dante have been around for 1K years but they still haven't found a storm shield in the Blood Angels armoury. When Mephiston finally finds one the Chaos gods will die and the universe will implode.

ok then what other marine who is badass has T6? and how many have T5? like none.

Cassius is T6. But his sergeant-like profile...

Wolf-rider marines has T5.

Kveldulv wrote:

terminus wrote:The Priests granting FNP are nice, but they are 75 points barebones with a jump-pack, and also cannot join units.

Aren't they ICs? Why shouldn't they be able to join units?

Most of the single models in the Codex actually don't have the IC rule. I don't know if it's fluff (they don't work well together?) or simply game mechanics (can't join a unit, must take a transport by themselves), but from what I've heard, Sanguinor, Mephiston, Tycho and maybe Corbulo don't have IC.

Mephiston- yes he is tough and very very killy. But at T6 he is hardly unkillable. Bolters will wound on a 6, as will a normal marines cc attack. Swamp him with big assault squad or rapid fire bolters (Bolter Drill anyone?). Alsoa melta will take a wound off on a 3+.

Even if he is in with a squad of marines for ablastive wounds. Hit him with a big assault squad (jump packs or 'zerkers for example) - pistol away a few of the marines and charge in.

Yes he is tough, as the Lord of Death shoudl be. but he is hardly game breaking. Apply the same tactics as you woudl to a Nightbringer and you shoudl be fine, i'm guessing.

So... the title of this thread is:

"I am scared of the new Mephiston."...

@Praxiss:
I think Mephiston is easier to kill than Nightbringer if at least for the lower Toughness values between the two.

I was looking forward to Seth giving out fleet to people, but that was just a hoop dream I guess.
But a non-power weaponed IC is just out of my comfort zone.

I am very looking foward to the Fast Vehicles...

Praxiss wrote:Mephiston- yes he is tough and very very killy. But at T6 he is hardly unkillable. Bolters will wound on a 6, as will a normal marines cc attack. Swamp him with big assault squad or rapid fire bolters (Bolter Drill anyone?). Alsoa melta will take a wound off on a 3+.

2+, you meant. 3+ would be for plasma. But either way, he's in trouble.

Praxiss wrote:Even if he is in with a squad of marines for ablastive wounds. Hit him with a big assault squad (jump packs or 'zerkers for example) - pistol away a few of the marines and charge in.

Which won't even matter if he's not an IC.

kaptaink wrote:
BAAWW CHEESE
Hopefully you can beat Jacob Wolves and be "SUPER BADASS" drinking blood and stuff. YAWN.
BAAAWWWW CHEESE

HOLY DEEP STRIKING DONGCOPTERS BATMAN

Its team Jacob vs team Edward between the last two marine codexs.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:

kaptaink wrote:
BAAWW CHEESE
Hopefully you can beat Jacob Wolves and be "SUPER BADASS" drinking blood and stuff. YAWN.
BAAAWWWW CHEESE

HOLY DEEP STRIKING DONGCOPTERS BATMAN

Its team Jacob vs team Edward between the last two marine codexs.

I just caught that reference, and now I want to vomit.

Demogerg wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:

kaptaink wrote:
BAAWW CHEESE
Hopefully you can beat Jacob Wolves and be "SUPER BADASS" drinking blood and stuff. YAWN.
BAAAWWWW CHEESE

HOLY DEEP STRIKING DONGCOPTERS BATMAN

Its team Jacob vs team Edward between the last two marine codexs.

I just caught that reference, and now I want to vomit.

Me too. I feel dirty.

Does this make st celestine bella?

HERESY of the highest magnitude


excuse me whilst I ralph on my Inquisitorial rug

Demogerg wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:

kaptaink wrote:
BAAWW CHEESE
Hopefully you can beat Jacob Wolves and be "SUPER BADASS" drinking blood and stuff. YAWN.
BAAAWWWW CHEESE

HOLY DEEP STRIKING DONGCOPTERS BATMAN

Its team Jacob vs team Edward between the last two marine codexs.

I just caught that reference, and now I want to vomit.

HAHAHA, everyone does man, everyone does.

Secretly GW is run by 16 year old girls with Twilight posters all over their offices.




On a serious note about this codex, it looks like they are really trying to go with some stuff that Marines haven't ever had, MC's and heavy skimmers. I think it's a great idea it just sucks in execution when they don't pace themselves and drop it all in one codex. With everything happening in this book I can't wait to see what happens with BT and DA.

The only think I think might be OP about the codex isn't Meph or the other special characters but the massive amounts of FNP. That gak gets really, really unkillable when they roll well.

LMAO...

So Seth doesn't have a PW? Lame...

So the reason the Lander has the 2 unit capacity is so it can carry Mephiston or Angel dude with a unit of jump infantry?

Gornall wrote:LMAO...

So Seth doesn't have a PW? Lame...

So the reason the Lander has the 2 unit capacity is so it can carry Mephiston or Angel dude with a unit of jump infantry?

well since it can carry a dread and an infantry squad and not 2 infantry squads this doesnt work. But dropping a furioso and mephiston on someones face probably wont be too fun for them.

BA's get some really nice melta units. I can see something like a 10 man assault squad with 2 meltas and an infernus pistol with a sang priest with an inferno pistol in a drop pod. It comes down and you can combat squad into 2 meltas and 2 infernus pistols and hit 2 targets. Also you now have a scoring unit of FNP marines in the enemies lines they have to deal with while the rest of your army bears down on them.

especially if the dred is a furioso librarian. that thing has an 18" threat range if it takes Wings

Grey Templar wrote:especially if the dred is a furioso librarian. that thing has an 18" threat range if it takes Wings

A dread with wings HAHAHAHA

So i guess pigs do fly in the 5th.

it looks like they are really trying to go with some stuff that Marines haven't ever had, MC's and heavy skimmers. I think it's a great idea it just sucks in execution

To me it's starting to seem that BA are the armoured company of the Space Marines. Predators going to two slots and Land Raiders being available for troops units means that you can fill every slot in the force organisation chart except HQ with AV13 and AV14 vehicles. Jump packers, DC, Sanguinary Guard etc don't really enter the picture at all. The tanks get all the attention Outflanking Predators, deep striking Land Raiders and AV13 Furioso Librarians shooting blood lance shots through vehicles when their Drop Pods land. It's interesting atleast.

The only think I think might be OP about the codex isn't Meph or the other special characters but the massive amounts of FNP. That gak gets really, really unkillable when they roll well.

YAY FNP
IVE LOST 1 GAME EVER TO LASH/PLAGUE MARINE/OBLIT RUSH
ITS A CHEAP TRICK

especially if the dred is a furioso librarian. that thing has an 18" threat range if it takes Wings

WHAT FLYING DREADNOUGHTS
BOOO FLYING DREADNOUGHTS
GET IN MY MELTA RANGE FASTER

with the way characters are going i cant wait for the new eldar codex, to see what they will do with the wonder twins


I cant wait to see deep striking land raiders. assuming you cant assault out of it when it lands anyone running multiple raiders is asking to lose every game

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:

The only think I think might be OP about the codex isn't Meph or the other special characters but the massive amounts of FNP. That gak gets really, really unkillable when they roll well.

YAY FNP
IVE LOST 1 GAME EVER TO LASH/PLAGUE MARINE/OBLIT RUSH
ITS A CHEAP TRICK

Spoiler:

DOUBLE TOUGHNESS OR POWER WEAPONS KILL IT

especially if the dred is a furioso librarian. that thing has an 18" threat range if it takes Wings

WHAT FLYING DREADNOUGHTS
BOOO FLYING DREADNOUGHTS
GET IN MY MELTA RANGE FASTER

with the way characters are going i cant wait for the new eldar codex, to see what they will do with the wonder twins

Spoiler:

eldrad is now a wraithlord

I cant wait to see deep striking land raiders. assuming you cant assault out of it when it lands anyone running multiple raiders is asking to lose every game

Spoiler:

YAY FIREDRAGONS YAY

Plasma Cannons anyone, one PC shoots a tooled up terminator squad. BAM, 200+pts per shot.

Flying Dreadnoughts shouldn't be that bad. You'll always have a turn to fire at them and AV12 is far from unstoppable.

I thought the Lander rules actually stated 2 units with a capacity of 12 Marines and 1 Dread?

Plasma Cannons anyone, one PC shoots a tooled up terminator squad. BAM, 200+pts per shot.

The only time you ever find a terminator squad bunched up in a nice little circle your plasma cannons will all overheat.
seriously.

I thought the Lander rules actually stated 2 units with a capacity of 12 Marines and 1 Dread?

I heard this to, but have not read the codex.

Im buying those sanguinary guard and painting them up flesh color

Furiosos and Furioso Librarians are AV13.

melta and lance weapons ftw.
or seer council.

AV12 is far from unstoppable.

Furiosos and Furioso Librarians are AV13.

melta and lance weapons ftw.

I think when someone brings ~12 AV13+ vehicles to the table, noone will have enough 'melta and lance weapons'.

Grey Templar wrote:especially if the dred is a furioso librarian. that thing has an 18" threat range if it takes Wings

And can perform Descent of Angels out of the gunship...I've said too much

Therion wrote:

AV12 is far from unstoppable.

Furiosos and Furioso Librarians are AV13.

I'm hearing AV 13 front, AV 12 side. Predators, of course, have AV 11 sides.

Therion wrote:

melta and lance weapons ftw.

I think when someone brings ~12 AV13+ vehicles to the table, noone will have enough 'melta and lance weapons'.

I'm thinking: Cheap (~100)= Two, for pawnage.
Medium (~120)= One, for kicks.

For AV 13 are they actually paying a lot of points for this stuff?

These things better be like 170+pts.

Ironclad is 135pts, and it is hardly broken.

Granted, the libby dread should probably be quite expensive

I think when someone brings ~12 AV13+ vehicles to the table, noone will have enough 'melta and lance weapons'.

They also wont have enough infantry, and like i said a council can wreck multiple dreads. Im not afraid of it.

And whats ~12 av13+ mean?
more then?
less then?
the only time i see a tilde (~) used is in symbolic logic which means not. So logically anytime someone brings more or less then 12 av13 tanks you dont have enough melta or lance weapons

i think the council might worry more about the preferred enemy FNP furious charging assault terminators with the psychic hood backing them up.

And whats ~12 av13+ mean?

In this case it means approximately 12.

Im not afraid of it.

The overall best army currently has roughly 12 AV12 vehicles depending on points limit. If someone can bring an equal amount in AV13 vehicles, you should be afraid, and if you aren't, atleast the guy with the AV12 vehicles will be.

There is no "overall best army" currently.

Meh, if they're dumping all their points in vehicles, I'll just feed them to my broadsides because that means less foot troops which are the only thing Tau are afraid of.

Fetterkey wrote:There is no "overall best army" currently.

I'm afraid if you force every competitive 40K player to declare what he thinks is the overall strongest army in today's metagame, 9 out of 10 will answer IG, whether you like it or not.

Therion wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:There is no "overall best army" currently.

I'm afraid if you force every competitive 40K player to declare what he thinks is the overall strongest army in today's metagame, 9 out of 10 will answer IG, whether you like it or not.

40k doesn't have a stable metagame, so you can't draw sweeping generalizations like that. The Imperial Guard is certainly a strong army but I see nothing to indicate that they are better than any other 5th edition Codex, or even a few of the 3rd or 4th edition Codices.

tokugawa wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:

Therion wrote:

T6: something monsturous or godly, or non organic.

That's T8. T6 is just a generic billy badass level.

It's just strange Mephiston and Dante have been around for 1K years but they still haven't found a storm shield in the Blood Angels armoury. When Mephiston finally finds one the Chaos gods will die and the universe will implode.

ok then what other marine who is badass has T6? and how many have T5? like none.

Cassius is T6. But his sergeant-like profile...

Wolf-rider marines has T5.

wolf lords are on super badass wolves tho

IronfrontAlex wrote:

tokugawa wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:

Therion wrote:

T6: something monsturous or godly, or non organic.

That's T8. T6 is just a generic billy badass level.

It's just strange Mephiston and Dante have been around for 1K years but they still haven't found a storm shield in the Blood Angels armoury. When Mephiston finally finds one the Chaos gods will die and the universe will implode.

ok then what other marine who is badass has T6? and how many have T5? like none.

Cassius is T6. But his sergeant-like profile...

Wolf-rider marines has T5.

wolf lords are on super badass wolves tho

No normal SW's can also be on wolves T5. Meph is just a insane individual by far the strongest known to IoM skill/toughness wise imo. So they made him insane in his stats he held off companies of marines in the fluff, half being Blood Angels and half being of the Reborn. Hes GW's version of a vampire so thats what they made just a fact you have to deal with.

Although makes you wonder what would Bulveye's stats be like hahaha.

Therion wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:There is no "overall best army" currently.

I'm afraid if you force every competitive 40K player to declare what he thinks is the overall strongest army in today's metagame, 9 out of 10 will answer IG, whether you like it or not.

I would say Orks are the overall strongest army.
cheap effective troops for scoring and killing most units.
cheap AV14 with the best anti tank non-weapon in the game for busting land raiders and "getting there"
Lootas for eating light/medium transports
Gazzy the roflstomper for killing enemy HQ/deathstars.
Big Mek KFF for a 4+ save on the armies' AV14 make them the toughest vehicles in the game vs static gunlines.

FoeHammer wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:

tokugawa wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:

Therion wrote:

T6: something monsturous or godly, or non organic.

That's T8. T6 is just a generic billy badass level.

It's just strange Mephiston and Dante have been around for 1K years but they still haven't found a storm shield in the Blood Angels armoury. When Mephiston finally finds one the Chaos gods will die and the universe will implode.

ok then what other marine who is badass has T6? and how many have T5? like none.

Cassius is T6. But his sergeant-like profile...

Wolf-rider marines has T5.

wolf lords are on super badass wolves tho

No normal SW's can also be on wolves T5. Meph is just a insane individual by far the strongest known to IoM skill/toughness wise imo. So they made him insane in his stats he held off companies of marines in the fluff, half being Blood Angels and half being of the Reborn. Hes GW's version of a vampire so thats what they made just a fact you have to deal with.

Although makes you wonder what would Bulveye's stats be like hahaha.

I just need a Van Helsing lord then:p or maybe lure mephiston out with a 17 year old highschool girl

Oh how I hate all the twilight jokes... it is OLD, people have been doing it since we knew BA were coming out, it is lame to still do it

Demogerg wrote:

Therion wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:There is no "overall best army" currently.

I'm afraid if you force every competitive 40K player to declare what he thinks is the overall strongest army in today's metagame, 9 out of 10 will answer IG, whether you like it or not.

I would say Orks are the overall strongest army.
cheap effective troops for scoring and killing most units.
cheap AV14 with the best anti tank non-weapon in the game for busting land raiders and "getting there"
Lootas for eating light/medium transports
Gazzy the roflstomper for killing enemy HQ/deathstars.
Big Mek KFF for a 4+ save on the armies' AV14 make them the toughest vehicles in the game vs static gunlines.

My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

But its SOOOOO fun if your not a BA player

Not sure that meph would care about a 17 yr old girl i think a little boy would do better. Meph is just to Chuck Norris to be a woman lover .

FoeHammer wrote:

Demogerg wrote:

Therion wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:There is no "overall best army" currently.

I'm afraid if you force every competitive 40K player to declare what he thinks is the overall strongest army in today's metagame, 9 out of 10 will answer IG, whether you like it or not.

I would say Orks are the overall strongest army.
cheap effective troops for scoring and killing most units.
cheap AV14 with the best anti tank non-weapon in the game for busting land raiders and "getting there"
Lootas for eating light/medium transports
Gazzy the roflstomper for killing enemy HQ/deathstars.
Big Mek KFF for a 4+ save on the armies' AV14 make them the toughest vehicles in the game vs static gunlines.

My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

And can lose half of their army to immobilised results as well as wrecked and destroyed. I agree with Demogerg that Orks are very strong. I don't know if there's a "strongest" army right now - but I certainly wouldn't say that "9 out of 10 gamers would agree that it's IG". That's a farce and completely fabricated.

FoeHammer wrote:
My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

Aircav has a couple of huge issues. Valks come in squadrons after the first 3, valks are gigantic models (big issue, with 6, space becomes your biggest issue) and the army is pretty fragile

I think Orks is the strongest army, but all armies from DoC have been very cool and well balanced. Eldar, DE, WH and CSM can still compete at the same level, just with more boring codexes (eldar one is pretty decent though). IMO, only necrons, GK's and Tau are a bit behind on the powerlevel, and they can still compete with a good general.

puma713 wrote:

FoeHammer wrote:

Demogerg wrote:

Therion wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:There is no "overall best army" currently.

I'm afraid if you force every competitive 40K player to declare what he thinks is the overall strongest army in today's metagame, 9 out of 10 will answer IG, whether you like it or not.

I would say Orks are the overall strongest army.
cheap effective troops for scoring and killing most units.
cheap AV14 with the best anti tank non-weapon in the game for busting land raiders and "getting there"
Lootas for eating light/medium transports
Gazzy the roflstomper for killing enemy HQ/deathstars.
Big Mek KFF for a 4+ save on the armies' AV14 make them the toughest vehicles in the game vs static gunlines.

My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

And can lose half of their army to immobilised results as well as wrecked and destroyed. I agree with Demogerg that Orks are very strong. I don't know if there's a "strongest" army right now - but I certainly wouldn't say that "9 out of 10 gamers would agree that it's IG". That's a farce and completely fabricated.

Any army with that much firepower to kill 4-5 Av12 vechs that fast will be dropped on. Fighting air cav is alot different on table then paper. The squadrons only hamper it really. But they drop off so many troops so fast that you have to start splitting shots. Trust me on this that army is slowed good. Then you have the psycher squad to deal with, which is a whole new pain in the ass.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Illumini wrote:

FoeHammer wrote:
My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

Aircav has a couple of huge issues. Valks come in squadrons after the first 3, valks are gigantic models (big issue, with 6, space becomes your biggest issue) and the army is pretty fragile

I think Orks is the strongest army, but all armies from DoC have been very cool and well balanced. Eldar, DE, WH and CSM can still compete at the same level, just with more boring codexes (eldar one is pretty decent though). IMO, only necrons, GK's and Tau are a bit behind on the powerlevel, and they can still compete with a good general.

You can fit all 9 on the table ive seen it done. and they scout so being close isnt a issue.

FoeHammer wrote:

puma713 wrote:

FoeHammer wrote:

Demogerg wrote:

Therion wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:There is no "overall best army" currently.

I'm afraid if you force every competitive 40K player to declare what he thinks is the overall strongest army in today's metagame, 9 out of 10 will answer IG, whether you like it or not.

I would say Orks are the overall strongest army.
cheap effective troops for scoring and killing most units.
cheap AV14 with the best anti tank non-weapon in the game for busting land raiders and "getting there"
Lootas for eating light/medium transports
Gazzy the roflstomper for killing enemy HQ/deathstars.
Big Mek KFF for a 4+ save on the armies' AV14 make them the toughest vehicles in the game vs static gunlines.

My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

And can lose half of their army to immobilised results as well as wrecked and destroyed. I agree with Demogerg that Orks are very strong. I don't know if there's a "strongest" army right now - but I certainly wouldn't say that "9 out of 10 gamers would agree that it's IG". That's a farce and completely fabricated.

Any army with that firepower to kill 4-5 Av12 that fast will be dropped on. Fighting air cav its alot different on table then paper. The squadrons only hamper it really. But they drop off so many troops so fast that you have to start splitting shots. Trust me on this that army is slowed good. Then you have the psycher squad to deal with which is a whole new thing pain in the ass.

Yes, I've played against it. And I lost. It was a learning experience, but it also wasn't as easy as you're making it out to sound. Being in squadrons hampers it, yes. And the low BS doesn't help either, regardless if their weapons are twin-linked. He hurt me in the first turn by focus-firing all of his weaponry on my AV14 tank, but it could have swung either way.

FoeHammer wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Illumini wrote:

FoeHammer wrote:
My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

Aircav has a couple of huge issues. Valks come in squadrons after the first 3, valks are gigantic models (big issue, with 6, space becomes your biggest issue) and the army is pretty fragile

I think Orks is the strongest army, but all armies from DoC have been very cool and well balanced. Eldar, DE, WH and CSM can still compete at the same level, just with more boring codexes (eldar one is pretty decent though). IMO, only necrons, GK's and Tau are a bit behind on the powerlevel, and they can still compete with a good general.

You can fit all 9 on the table ive seen it done. and they scout so being close isnt a issue.

Again, this isn't entirely true. In the game I mentioned above, his first big challenge was deployment. He could barely fit his Air Cav on the board.

Now, please understand that I am not disagreeing with you. Not entirely. I think Air Cav is a good list. In fact, it can be so good that people look upon it with the same disdain that they do Dual-Lash, Dual-StarGod, 6 LR lists. However, the end-all be-all it is not.

Yes, I've played against it. And I lost. It was a learning experience, but it also wasn't as easy as you're making it out to sound. Being in squadrons hampers it, yes. And the low BS doesn't help either, regardless if their weapons are twin-linked. He hurt me in the first turn by focus-firing all of his weaponry on my AV14 tank, but it could have swung either way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, this isn't entirely true. In the game I mentioned above, his first big challenge was deployment. He could barely fit his Air Cav on the board.

Now, please understand that I am not disagreeing with you. Not entirely. I think Air Cav is a good list. In fact, it can be so good that people look upon it with the same disdain that they do Dual-Lash, Dual-StarGod, 6 LR lists. However, the end-all be-all it is not.

Ok well Twin-Linked Bs 3 gives it a 75% chance to hit Bs 4 has a 67% chance to hit about. Makes a big diff imho. The 2 times i played the list he just basically lined them up it was a tight deployment true, but after the scout moves before the game started it let him pretty much avoid any real blast threats and to better position himself. I never said it was unbeatable but at the current moment its the best list imo has alot of power and a small learning curve anyone with some knowledge of the game and tactics can put the hurt on most people.

FoeHammer wrote:

Yes, I've played against it. And I lost. It was a learning experience, but it also wasn't as easy as you're making it out to sound. Being in squadrons hampers it, yes. And the low BS doesn't help either, regardless if their weapons are twin-linked. He hurt me in the first turn by focus-firing all of his weaponry on my AV14 tank, but it could have swung either way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, this isn't entirely true. In the game I mentioned above, his first big challenge was deployment. He could barely fit his Air Cav on the board.

Now, please understand that I am not disagreeing with you. Not entirely. I think Air Cav is a good list. In fact, it can be so good that people look upon it with the same disdain that they do Dual-Lash, Dual-StarGod, 6 LR lists. However, the end-all be-all it is not.

Ok well Twin-Linked Bs 3 gives it a 75% chance to hit Bs 4 has a 67% chance to hit about. Makes a big diff imho. The 2 times i played the list he just basically lined them up it was a tight deployment true, but after the scout moves before the game started it let him pretty much avoid any real blast threats and to better position himself. I never said it was unbeatable but at the current moment its the best list imo has alot of power and a small learning curve anyone with some knowledge of the game and tactics can put the hurt on most people.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I agree

gogo thread derailment into IG and the metagame

NOOOO more BA talk!

Grey Templar wrote:especially if the dred is a furioso librarian. that thing has an 18" threat range if it takes Wings

Dreads can't take that particular power, IIRC from perusing the codex. That would be stupid, lol.

Therion wrote:I think when someone brings ~12 AV13+ vehicles to the table, noone will have enough 'melta and lance weapons'.

They have side armor 11, and rear armor 10, and are just dying to get closer to you. They are also quite expensive, so you can't field them in the same numbers as IG chimeras.

Seriously people, stop freaking out. I abandoned Warseer and came here because I thought the folks here weren't as prone to histrionics and gaking their pants every time a new rumor comes out. This type of cowardice is sickening. And yes, oooh, IG are sooo uber ultra competitive, that's why they are winning every tournament... or wait, the average mech list has well over 20+ KPs, never mind. IG are good, but there is no best army. If someone is using that as an excuse for losing, that's all it is, an excuse.

And Air Cav is probably one of the weaker builds. You're putting a bunch of guardsmen in rapid fire range, out into the open, and are bringing your skimmers into melta range while squadrons make them easier to destroy. Yeah...

It doesnt have wings but that doesnt mean its useless!

No one said it's useless. It is still a total monster in close combat and tossing that Blood Lance out after a deep strike can cause no small amount of pain.

My DH inquisitor with hood is fast becoming an auto-include in my IG lists.

@terminus:
You are going to find some people that overreact in any forum, and I'm sure a large population of people like to bitch and moan about stuff.

I think the FAST vehicles are not just to get closer to the opponent.
That would be a yes for rhinos and stuff in transports that have stuff that do. But vehicles with FAST can me a whole lot of mobile offensive fire power that can try to get side armor shots and such...and the speed of movement can be used defensively.

So, being a fast vehicle has so many perks, it's not just about getting close to the opponent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I'm interested in is Fast Razorbacks...sort of spammable with mobile and effective weapon options.

yeah one thing im worried about are these fastt vehicles; and dred librarians, do null fields work on them for cover saves then? how would you treat a perils?

IronfrontAlex wrote:yeah one thing im worried about are these fastt vehicles; and dred librarians, do null fields work on them for cover saves then? how would you treat a perils?

A dread librarian would be easier to kill I would think since they won't be in a unit...just a tank with psyker powers.

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:yeah one thing im worried about are these fastt vehicles; and dred librarians, do null fields work on them for cover saves then? how would you treat a perils?

A dread librarian would be easier to kill I would think since they won't be in a unit...just a tank with psyker powers.

im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I can see a Dreadnought Librarian all decked out with Epistolary-level power, good weapons loadout on the Dread body, and Pod delivery system turning into a 300+ point investment, assuming costs are relatively in line with C:SM.

If they give it access to Wings of Sanguinus, we are all screwed, including you Tau folks. A homicidal flying psychic killing machine...

IronfrontAlex wrote:
im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I play Tau and I'm not even a particularly good player but I have never had a dread get into close combat with me. I'm more worried about the fast assault troops than vehicles or dreads.

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:
im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I play Tau and I'm not even a particularly good player but I have never had a dread get into close combat with me. I'm more worried about the fast assault troops than vehicles or dreads.

which I am not 100% concerned about :p


different armies, different weaknesses

IronfrontAlex wrote:

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:
im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I play Tau and I'm not even a particularly good player but I have never had a dread get into close combat with me. I'm more worried about the fast assault troops than vehicles or dreads.

which I am not 100% concerned about :p


different armies, different weaknesses

Yep. Tell you what, loan me some of your assault units and I'll loan you a couple of units of broadsides.

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:
im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I play Tau and I'm not even a particularly good player but I have never had a dread get into close combat with me. I'm more worried about the fast assault troops than vehicles or dreads.

What about flying Dreadnought assault troops?

GeneralRetreat wrote:

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:
im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I play Tau and I'm not even a particularly good player but I have never had a dread get into close combat with me. I'm more worried about the fast assault troops than vehicles or dreads.

What about flying Dreadnought assault troops?

I'll still, more than likely, get a round of shooting on them before they reach me. Broadsides are fairly inexpensive and hammerheads are fairly mobile platforms for railguns.

We all know how weak tau are but we've got one thing we can do well and it's pop hard targets.

in case you guyz didn't notice, i know this is off topic, but anyways, the new blood angles are availabe for advance order

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:
im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I play Tau and I'm not even a particularly good player but I have never had a dread get into close combat with me. I'm more worried about the fast assault troops than vehicles or dreads.

which I am not 100% concerned about :p


different armies, different weaknesses

Yep. Tell you what, loan me some of your assault units and I'll loan you a couple of units of broadsides.

DEAL i have NO S10 weapons in my intire army.... i can loan some berzerks

you might need to use the broadsides and the devilfish hit and run tactic

IronfrontAlex wrote:

DEAL i have NO S10 weapons in my intire army.... i can loan some berzerks

you might need to use the broadsides and the devilfish hit and run tactic

Now that would be a deal. I have a friend who plays a huge nurgal army; now you've got me thinking about teaming up with him at a team tournament; it'd be a lethal combination.
"You run out there and I'll blow up their tanks."

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:

DEAL i have NO S10 weapons in my intire army.... i can loan some berzerks

you might need to use the broadsides and the devilfish hit and run tactic

Now that would be a deal. I have a friend who plays a huge nurgal army; now you've got me thinking about teaming up with him at a team tournament; it'd be a lethal combination.
"You run out there and I'll blow up their tanks."

well plague marines tie up combat very well but i wouldn't say they are the most killy. in doubles ask your buddy to take possibly a LR or rhino filled with berzerkers that would help too. maybe some meltabikes, nurgle meltabikes!

My best bet against Meph would be sending in my Keeper of Secrets, I:10 A:7 on charge

Twisted_Thrasher wrote:My best bet against Meph would be sending in my Keeper of Secrets, I:10 A:7 on charge

you would probably hit and wound him on 4's so those attacks would be excellent. use 2 KOS and he is in for a world of hurt. isn't an eldar avatar also I10? he might work too.

IronfrontAlex wrote:

Twisted_Thrasher wrote:My best bet against Meph would be sending in my Keeper of Secrets, I:10 A:7 on charge

you would probably hit and wound him on 4's so those attacks would be excellent. use 2 KOS and he is in for a world of hurt. isn't an eldar avatar also I10? he might work too.

No, the Avatar is WS 10, not I10.

Also, other things that come to mind:

Anything with Tyranid Lash Whips

Howling Banshees (with Mephiston Doomed, hopefully)

Daemonettes

I already knew about deamonettes and planed on buying them now for my deamon army but i totally forgot about banchees! mephy doesnt stand a chance against eldar ahaha; runes of witnessing ftw

that stuff you said were in the codex seems overpowered imo but then agian i havent seen how many pts they cost.

epil wrote:that stuff you said were in the codex seems overpowered imo but then agian i havent seen how many pts they cost.

which stuff? and its all true

I think DA players should as a rule use the new blood angels codex..

Did they not have the Iron wing..

Are they not also from the 2nd ed Angels of death stable. ..

I personally think this codex will be just like wolves in that they'll be heaps of amzing stuff and you wont be albe to actually fit that much into a list.

Also the bitter cynical chaos side weeps tears of rage.. Chaos gods are a shortcut to power haha sure.

Also flying dreadnoughts is actually stupider then wolfs on wolfs.

lol yo dawg i heard you like wolves so i put wolves on your wolves so you can ... rend while you rend?

lol yo dawg i heard you like wolves so i put wolves on your wolves so you can ... rend while you rend?

I see what you did there.

Old meme is old?

I also think its funny all the people who hate twilight know so much about it.

Closet vampires...

I dont even hate twilight that much but then I dont think about it all day.

vampire meme comment is vampire meme comment.


blood angels=mobile vanilla marines with a few new DS options, a new skimmer, and non scoring special troops.

no biggie

Or better yet Meph vs. the slightest of all odds of a Shokk Attack Gun rolling 12....... remove from table muhahahahahaha... or you could just accidently end up putting your Big mek next to him.... hmmm

I just so fething hope Chaos get's crap like this when they redo our lot. New rules, new models everything.

And honestly if I can crush the Trygon with spammed plasma. Then I can kill some Vampire Emo Angel boy.

Shadowbrand wrote:I just so fething hope Chaos get's crap like this when they redo our lot. New rules, new models everything.

And honestly if I can crush the Trygon with spammed plasma. Then I can kill some Vampire Emo Angel boy.

rofl, lots of love there!

Agreed, well not new models i like the current chaos ones

OMG PEOPLE!
Get over it the Blood Angels still have some drawbacks! for instance they cannot split into combat squads! that and their units are really expensive and also their characters will be easy targets for your anti-powerarmor. That and also they don't have access to the orbital bombardment and also to your trusty relic blade! Also their stuff costs alot and they also lack the traits normal space marines have. Plus not only that but they don't have iron clads, thunderfire cannons and the ablities of a Libarian.

Also to all those XENOS players out there heres a word of advice. MASS SPAM TEMPLATES!!! Orcs heres your stragety! MASSING WORKS! Eldar get dark reapers and snipers, dire avengers, and fire dragons. Tyranids trygons and Swarmlord. Necrons you'll be fine. Dark Eldar! Your op as we already know! Tau pretty clear what to do, shoot your way out, and try not to get into combat, -key lots of template weapons.

Adivce to Imperial Players
Inqustion-Grey knights work wonders ever since psychic powers do not work on them
Witch Hunters- Get lots of ap 2 or 3 weapons
Space Marines- Plasma Weapons and Tanks!
Imperail Guard- Valrikes! and lots and lots of tanks! mainly leman russes!

Asherian Command wrote:OMG PEOPLE!
Get over it the Blood Angels still have some drawbacks! for instance they cannot split into combat squads! that and their units are really expensive and also their characters will be easy targets for your anti-powerarmor. That and also they don't have access to the orbital bombardment and also to your trusty relic blade! Also their stuff costs alot and they also lack the traits normal space marines have. Plus not only that but they don't have iron clads, thunderfire cannons and the ablities of a Libarian.

Also to all those XENOS players out there heres a word of advice. MASS SPAM TEMPLATES!!! Orcs heres your stragety! MASSING WORKS! Eldar get dark reapers and snipers, dire avengers, and fire dragons. Tyranids trygons and Swarmlord. Necrons you'll be fine. Dark Eldar! Your op as we already know! Tau pretty clear what to do, shoot your way out, and try not to get into combat, -key lots of template weapons.

Adivce to Imperial Players
Inqustion-Grey knights work wonders ever since psychic powers do not work on them
Witch Hunters- Get lots of ap 2 or 3 weapons
Space Marines- Plasma Weapons and Tanks!
Imperail Guard- Valrikes! and lots and lots of tanks! mainly leman russes!

The last dex had combat squads...

Quiet, you! No one has been freaking out for a few pages. And anyway, armor spam will be the most dangerous build, not the 300-point assault squads. They aren't even getting a model for the new skimmer (this one makes me sad, I love vehicle kits that aren't FW).

as far as people have been reporting combat squads are in

Also, if a Land Raider Deep strikes, you cannot assault from it.

A few other things to clarify rumors into actual literature from the Codex:

"1. Mephiston does NOT have Independant Character. He CANNOT join units. he IS Fleet

2. Land Raiders can ONLY be taken as dedicated transports......BUT THEY HAVE THE DEEP STRIKE RULE......

3. All vehicles with a Rhino chassis are FAST (Rhino, Razorback, Vindicator, Predator (both Baal and normal) and Whirlwind) - the Vindicator IS fast, move 12" and fire the cannon people!

4. Furioso and Death Company Dreads can take Blood Talons, which allow them to make another attack for each unsaved attack, and this is successive, it continues until you fail to wound.

5. Stormraven is 50 points cheaper than a Land Raider and is 12 on ALL sides, even rear, and carries 12 models and/or 1 Dreadnought. and jumptroops that disembarked if it went flatout do NOT take dangerous. so it can carry 10 marines + 2 characters and a dread

6. Vanguards are 10 points cheaper base than Codex SM, but still no attached Jumpacks

7. Death Company are Black Rage, Fearless, Feel No Pain, Furious Charge and Relentless and can be in a squad of 3-30.

8. Sanguinary Guard are Elites with 2+ saves and seperate from the Honour Guard, Dante makes them Troops.

9. Dante has 4 wounds, but no EW.

10 Blood Angels have the Reclusiarch, the old GOOD Chaplain. I5, W3 etc.

11. Astorath the Grim removes the limit of Death Company, so theoretically you could have six 30 man squads.

12. Descent of Angels, Blood Angels with this rule reroll failed Deep Strike reserve rolls and only scatter 1 D6.

13. Death Company dreads ignore shaken and stunned.

15. Furiosos are WS6 and Front armour 13.

16. TYCHO - Normal Tycho has Rites of Battle, Preferred Enemy: Orks. he ignores armour in CC and rolls 2d6 against armour and rerolls one failed to wound. Death Company Tycho loses RoB but gains all Death Company traits.

17. Lemartes is ok, if he gets wounded he becomes ST and Tgh 5. and has a master crafted PW, he and his squad also rerolls to hit AND wound on the charge (as do all chaplains if they are in a Death Company, normal squads just reroll to hit.)

18. Astorath, if hes in, all units suffer Red Thirst on a 1-3. has the Liturgies of Blood (reroll to hit(and wd if DC) he has a St 6 PW that forces rerolls of successful invuls.

19. Anyone within 6" of Sanguinary Priests are Furious charge and Feel no Pain

20. Corbulo is st5 in CC and rending.

21 The Sanguinator! WS 8, BS 5, ST 5 I6. Can choose to reroll hits and wds vs one enemy HQ. Choose one Sgt in your army to get +1 WS, Wound, I, and attack for the battle. He has been bleesed by Sanguinius. he has a 3+ invul. Everybody within 6" is +1 attack. is fearless, has eternal warrior. furious charge. Glaive encarmine.

22. Sanguinary Guards can have Death Masks, enemy must make leadership or be reduced to WS1 for the assault.

23.DANTE: Choose one enemy IC, it now has - 1 WS, Wound, I, and attack for the rest of the game. That sucks for everybody. He's only St4 and tgh 4 though. He does not scatter if he deepstrikes though and he has Hit and Run.

24. Gabriel Seth: has a two handed chainsword that is ST 8 and rending (not a power weapon though). Can choose to forgo his attacks to make one AUTO HIT on every model in base contact. If you roll a 1 to hit seth, you suffer an automatic st 4 hit as Seth kicks you in the jubblies."

From http://gigabitescafe.com/forum/index.php?topic=2417.0

I love the DC rules. Rapid fire bolters, then assault with 3 (4 if Sanguinor is around) S5 I5 attacks re-rolling misses and failed wounds, while getting a 3+ and 4+ save against enemy attacks (if there's anything left). And I think one in five can take a PW/PF?

I still want to know the cost of the fast vehicles. Rhino is supposedly 50.

@Iron front.

I love most of the current Chaos stuff. But with gak like this I'd like to see what they could come up with for new Plague Marines or a new raptor kit.

With the way that all these SM chapters are getting updated I can't wait to see DA. Considering each one looks to be getting more powerful than the previous one.

Shadowbrand wrote:@Iron front.

I love most of the current Chaos stuff. But with gak like this I'd like to see what they could come up with for new Plague Marines or a new raptor kit.[/quote
Totally im waiting for a codex chaos legions book prehaps? my word bearers could use a dark apostle model :p and maybe some new biker models that arent from 2nd edition would be nice.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:OMG PEOPLE!
Get over it the Blood Angels still have some drawbacks! for instance they cannot split into combat squads! that and their units are really expensive and also their characters will be easy targets for your anti-powerarmor. That and also they don't have access to the orbital bombardment and also to your trusty relic blade! Also their stuff costs alot and they also lack the traits normal space marines have. Plus not only that but they don't have iron clads, thunderfire cannons and the ablities of a Libarian.

Also to all those XENOS players out there heres a word of advice. MASS SPAM TEMPLATES!!! Orcs heres your stragety! MASSING WORKS! Eldar get dark reapers and snipers, dire avengers, and fire dragons. Tyranids trygons and Swarmlord. Necrons you'll be fine. Dark Eldar! Your op as we already know! Tau pretty clear what to do, shoot your way out, and try not to get into combat, -key lots of template weapons.

Adivce to Imperial Players
Inqustion-Grey knights work wonders ever since psychic powers do not work on them
Witch Hunters- Get lots of ap 2 or 3 weapons
Space Marines- Plasma Weapons and Tanks!
Imperail Guard- Valrikes! and lots and lots of tanks! mainly leman russes!

dude we are just discussing the codex nobody is freaking anymore this is just another army. let us have fun with the discussion eh?