21313
Post by: Vulcan
So what's yours? Do you prefer classic designs or new ones? Base models or variants? What units in Battletech catch your imagination? Which ones do you consider a tactical necessisty?
I'm a classic guy myself. I used to be a big fan of the TT-1A Titan (big brother to the Battlemaster), but all it can do is stand and slug it out. Having grown a little more tactically refined, I am starting to appreciate the Ostol and the Grand Dragon quite a bit more...
18080
Post by: Anpu42
This is one of my favorites
Type/Model: Dire Wolf Gunstar
Mass: 100 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 152 pts Standard 0 10.00
Engine: 300 XL 10 9.50
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 15 Double [30] 6 5.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 CT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 12 .00
Armor Factor: 304 pts Standard 0 19.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 31 47
Center Torso (Rear): 14
L/R Side Torso: 21 32/32
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 17 34/34
L/R Leg: 21 41/41
Weapons and Equipment/Loc
2 Ultra AC/10s/RA
(Ammo Locations: 2 LA, 2 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT)
2 Ultra AC/10s/LA
1 ER Medium Laser/RT
1 ER Medium Laser/LT
1 ER Small Laser/HD
21313
Post by: Vulcan
I used to have a (3025, granted) design that was similar. AC/10s in the arms, AC/20s in the torsos, and pretty much all the rest of the space was filled with ammo.
Made a really pretty BOOM when the ammo got hit.... After tranferring damage, all that was left was a smoking pair of boots. 
514
Post by: Orlanth
Are you looking for comments on imagery or stats.
For imagery you cannot beat 3025.
For stats the Night Gyr.
12975
Post by: thesilverback
Nothing tops the image of an original Warhammer striding across the battlefield.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
I took an Hachetman, riped out 2 HS and upgreaded the AC/10 to AC/20
Then Second Edetion came about and I had to make it a SH and a ML
8186
Post by: Endgame
Hard to go wrong with some of the classic designs.
I used to love the Marauder, Rifleman, and Stalker from the 3025 stuff. A long time ago when we used to play 250 ton games, I'm pretty sure I ran Marauder, Rifleman, Stalker, and Hunchback.
Add in the 2750 stuff and I was a huge fan of King Crab and the Highlander.
Move on up to the 3050 models and my favorites from the group were the Vulture, Madcat, and Black Hawk. Man, the good old days of driving to chicago to play at the battletech center
18080
Post by: Anpu42
I built a Moad Dog [Vulture] based on the Vulture 4
6x SSRM-6
6x ERSL
It kicked Booty
27536
Post by: The Fox Lord
Anpu42 wrote:I built a Moad Dog [Vulture] based on the Vulture 4
6x SSRM-6
6x ERSL
It kicked Booty
It's a good solid disien that I hate facing on the field, it stripped the armor off my Maurader in one turn and then blew it up in the next turn...I realy liked that maurader  it had a Guass rifle it went BOOM!
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Anpu42 wrote:I built a Moad Dog [Vulture] based on the Vulture 4
6x SSRM-6
6x ERSL
It kicked Booty
Do you meant the Vulture Mk. IV from the click version? Because that is pretty much a carbon-copy of a Vulture A.
As for me, I love the Gallowglas. The latest upgrade that adds a Light Engine and Targeting computer to the Gauss variant is amazing. Even better when you swap the ER Larges for a Heavy PPC.
If we go 3025, my personal favorite is the Panther. The Vindicator is a close runner up.
27536
Post by: The Fox Lord
Mattlov wrote:Anpu42 wrote:I built a Moad Dog [Vulture] based on the Vulture 4
6x SSRM-6
6x ERSL
It kicked Booty
Do you meant the Vulture Mk. IV from the click version? Because that is pretty much a carbon-copy of a Vulture A.
As for me, I love the Gallowglas. The latest upgrade that adds a Light Engine and Targeting computer to the Gauss variant is amazing. Even better when you swap the ER Larges for a Heavy PPC.
If we go 3025, my personal favorite is the Panther. The Vindicator is a close runner up.
Actualy the Mad Dog Anpu's refering to is from the old Battle Tech Centers and is officialy known as the Vulture V4 and trust me the only thing scarier I've ever faced in Battle Tech is the Daishai Widomaker (7 solo kills in 9 turns)
18080
Post by: Anpu42
My Favorite Mech is actualt the RFL-3N with the only modification is I put the Medium Lazer out the Rear [I call this my Rear Armor].
I normaly run between 7-15 point of heat each turn after the4 fighting starts.
4003
Post by: Nurglitch
A Warhawk with quad Large Pulse Lasers and Jump Jets.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Nurglitch wrote:A Warhawk with quad Large Pulse Lasers and Jump Jets.
Your cheese offends me. 
4003
Post by: Nurglitch
Mattlov wrote:Nurglitch wrote:A Warhawk with quad Large Pulse Lasers and Jump Jets.
Your cheese offends me.
I must be doing something right then.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Cheese is my Gunstar.
I have the potential of doing amlost 100 points in one volley.
Or my version of the Windowmaker
-4x LL-Pulse and a Guass Rifle [And a Piloting-1/Gunnery-0]
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Nurglitch wrote:Mattlov wrote:Nurglitch wrote:A Warhawk with quad Large Pulse Lasers and Jump Jets.
Your cheese offends me.
I must be doing something right then.
I just find designs like that to be extremely boring. I wouldn't use them unless absolutely forced. Give me an UrbanMech with a limp any day over that.
Of course, I do own 35 UrbanMechs, so I have other issues.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
I have an Urby called the UM- 40k
I riped out the AC/10, SL and HS
Doubled the HS
Added a ERSL
and MRM-40 
4003
Post by: Nurglitch
Mattlov:
I like precision, myself. The ability to call hit-locations was one of the few things I liked about Battletech before I quit.
21313
Post by: Vulcan
You mean the ability to call a hit location and do 40 points of damage to it, don't you?
167
Post by: John
I was playing battletech when it first came out. I think my fav mech, imagery and use, was the classic Centurion. A nice combo of speed, armor, firepower.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
This is one of my Command Lances for my 21st Gladaon Regulars. This is a C3 Company. The Mauler and the : Hatamoto-Kaze usually lad a mix of Standard, DFM, FASCAM, The Mauler also caries a ton of NARK and the : Hatamoto-Kaze Carries a Ton of Atrimis. Mostly what I did was remove Heat Sinks to get C3 Slave units and Un-ER the energy weapons. The Takashi Yoshi [the Mauler Pilot] actually makes most of his kills with the AC/2s.
Type/Model: Mauler MAL-21GR
Mass: 90 tons
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20]
Weapons and Equipment [Loc]
1x Large Laser [RA]
1x Large Laser [LA]
1x LRM 15 [RT]
(Ammo Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT)
2x Autocannon/2s [RT]
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT)
1x LRM 15 [LT]
2x Autocannon/2s [LT]
1 C³ Slave Unit [HD]
CASE Equipment: [LT/RT]
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Atlas AS7-21GR
Mass: 100 tons
Heat Sinks: 17 Double [34]
Weapons and Equipment [Loc]
1x ER Medium Laser [RA]
1x ER Medium Laser [LA]
1x Gauss Rifle [RT]
(Ammo Locations: 2 RT)
1x MRM 40 [LT]
(Ammo Locations: 2 LT)
2x Medium Pulse Lasers [CT(R)]
1x C³ Slave Unit [HD]
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Tai-sho TSH-21GR
Mass: 85 tons
Heat Sinks: 13 Double [26]
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 LA, 2 RA)
Weapons and Equipment [Loc]
1x PPC [RA]
1x PPC [LA]
1x Ultra AC/10 [RT]
(Ammo Locations: 2 RT)
2x C³ Master Computers [LT]
CASE Equipment: [RT]
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Hatamoto-Kaze HTM-21GR
Mass: 80 tons
Heat Sinks: 15 Double [30]
Weapons and Equipment [Loc]
1x PPC [RA]
1x PPC [LA]
1x LRM 5 w/ Artemis IV [RT]
(Ammo Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT)
1x LRM 5 w/ Artemis IV [LT]
1x C³ Slave Unit [HD]
CASE Equipment: [LT/RT]
5212
Post by: Gitzbitah
For the classic era, I just love the Catapult. It might not kill many mechs, but it is extremely survivable.
In the more modern era, I always enjoy a chance to use the Toyama. It is a wonderfully rounded mech, as well as one of the WOB exclusives.
24898
Post by: c34r34lk1ll3r
My favorite mechs are: Awesome, Barghest, Arctic Wolf, Madcat and I really like all the protomechs.
7046
Post by: rowanalpha
Thor M all the way.
27536
Post by: The Fox Lord
Salamander (You take it rip out 1 ton of ammo from each LRM and add an artimes to each)
Holander...Nuff Said
Crusader with a Sword 
100 ton warhammer with 30 Clan Double Heat Sinks and 6 Inner Sphere PPC's (I call it the Sunburst)
Blackhawk with 10 Heavy Medium Lasers 
21967
Post by: Tyyr
Timberwolf
There is no better mech, period. The real pity about the clans is that the original crop of mechs, especially the heavies and assaults, do just about anything you need. There have been a few worthy additions to the pantheon but the original crop of omni's are a tough act to follow.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Vulcan wrote:You mean the ability to call a hit location and do 40 points of damage to it, don't you?
Which you cannot do anymore with pulse lasers and a targeting computer. Makes designs like that far less useful.
21967
Post by: Tyyr
That was a VERY nice change. Though perfectly heat neutral, jumping, TC'd, pulse boats were largely wastes of BV in the face of competently used mechs before that change.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Tyyr wrote:That was a VERY nice change. Though perfectly heat neutral, jumping, TC'd, pulse boats were largely wastes of BV in the face of competently used mechs before that change.
True, but it got REALLY OLD fighting TC/Pulse boats before that rule change. Now you see other stuff in games again, and it makes me happy. It wasn't hard to them TACTICALLY, but you still needed above average dice rolls to pull it off.
Or be a jerk and take reflective armor units.
21967
Post by: Tyyr
I blame pulse boats for the general hatred of custom mechs in most gaming circles. Well, pulse boats and how bad many canon mechs actually are.
The whining when you handed a pulse boater his ass was always epic though.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Tyyr wrote:I blame pulse boats for the general hatred of custom mechs in most gaming circles. Well, pulse boats and how bad many canon mechs actually are.
The whining when you handed a pulse boater his ass was always epic though.
Very true on both accounts.
I often found the TC/Pulse crowd tended to be the players who came to Battletech from other games, looking for the "best" units. In the end Battletech only has a few TRULY bad units, almost everything is usable in some way which I think makes it a far better game than 40K or Fantasy.
8186
Post by: Endgame
Tyyr wrote:I blame pulse boats for the general hatred of custom mechs in most gaming circles. Well, pulse boats and how bad many canon mechs actually are.
I actually don't mind "bad" cannon mechs, but it only took 1 day of playing with the maximum tech rules & custom builds for our group to decide it was no fun and go back to to playing stock mechs from 2750 to 3055.
IMO, the game is really best in the 3025 to 3050 zone.
768
Post by: BAWTRM
I LIKE the quirky sub-optimal mechs. They're the ones that really fit with the background story of a declining humanity, forced to use automated factories that they largely do not understand, in order to get their warmachines.
Custom made mechs are often boring.
21967
Post by: Tyyr
Mattlov wrote:Very true on both accounts.
I often found the TC/Pulse crowd tended to be the players who came to Battletech from other games, looking for the "best" units. In the end Battletech only has a few TRULY bad units, almost everything is usable in some way which I think makes it a far better game than 40K or Fantasy.
I agree, probably why I have a more than a battalion of IS mechs and a cluster of clan ones on my shelves but only a single Sororitas army.
The thing is that a pulse/ TC boat with perfect heat dissipation doesn't represent the best unit, not by a long shot. It's an immature and inexperienced idea of what's best. Someone who knows the game knows that you ride the heat curve, not avoid it. Set your mech up to bracket fire and set your heat up to handle that. Know when to push the heat scale up to the top and when to cool off. It's less a perfect science (pulse lasers + TC + JJ + perfect dissipation = win) and more an art. Which is why pulse boaters are usually so easy to table. The ones that are hard are the ones who know how to handle the heat curve and still run pulse lasers + TCs. But then that's why they removed their ability to target individual sections.
BAWTRM wrote:I LIKE the quirky sub-optimal mechs. They're the ones that really fit with the background story of a declining humanity, forced to use automated factories that they largely do not understand, in order to get their warmachines.
Except this isn't WH40K. In Battletech nearly every faction is designing and building their own mechs by 3050 and even tiny little periphery nations are getting into it by 3070. Mech's aren't magical archeotech, they're everyday common weapons of war.
Yes, I like plenty of the regular mechs and can appreciate them for their quirks. I can separate the idea of things that are issues because of the design and game rules and not necessarily in universe problems from things that don't make sense in universe. The thing is that half the designs are absolute garbage. Decisions like 8 whole rounds for your main gun, going with almost purely energy weapons but not mounting any additional heatsinks (half the WoB militia designs), anything with a class 5 auto-cannon. At some point these stop being quirks and start being absolutely idiotic design decisions. A good example is the Shadowhawk, how on earth did that thing get into production and how did it stay in production when you've got mechs like the Griffon, Wolverine, and Centurion around?
The people who designs these mechs are designing weapons of war that will cost tens of millions of C-Bills and be responsible for the defense of their nation and yet the look like someone spent five minutes in megamek designing them. I'm not saying every mech should be perfectly tweaked and optimized but they should look like someone put some serious thought into the design and the "quirks" should be understandable trade offs and not look like oversights on the part of the drunken monkeys that slapped it together.
768
Post by: BAWTRM
Tyyr wrote:
Except this isn't WH40K. In Battletech nearly every faction is designing and building their own mechs by 3050 and even tiny little periphery nations are getting into it by 3070. Mech's aren't magical archeotech, they're everyday common weapons of war.
...A good example is the Shadowhawk, how on earth did that thing get into production and how did it stay in production when you've got mechs like the Griffon, Wolverine, and Centurion around?
The people who designs these mechs are designing weapons of war that will cost tens of millions of C-Bills and be responsible for the defense of their nation and yet the look like someone spent five minutes in megamek designing them. I'm not saying every mech should be perfectly tweaked and optimized but they should look like someone put some serious thought into the design and the "quirks" should be understandable trade offs and not look like oversights on the part of the drunken monkeys that slapped it together.
If you look at the fluff you'll see that what I described is pretty much the situation from the 2nd Succesion War on up. The discovery of the Helm memory core finally ended this state of affairs but actual new mech designs and production lines only started to really come online around 3050.
So if you look at the 3025 situation, you've got a load of factories that can only turn out a certain type of mech (or if lucky more) because they're automated and no longer fully understood. So you can pour raw materials in a factory and get say, 40 Shadow Hawks a year, or simply get none from said factory. That's 40 less mechs less on your front lines each year, there simply is no alternative.
It's also why certain mechs were heavily connected to certain Successor States, because they were the only ones still making them! Any of the same type in another state was salvaged from the enemy in the past or maybe traded/stolen.
Commando's were made on Coventry. Zeus, Atlas and the Banshee on Hesperus. Awesomes in the FWL. Panthers and Dragons in the DC etc. etc.
With the resurgence of technology this is no longer the case and we get to the situation you were describing. I guess we were really referring to different time periods. 
18176
Post by: Guitardian
I only ever played 3025 era mechs from the basic box, but out of the origional 14 I think the Thunderbolt was a beast. Wolverine not too shabby either... but this was back before ER and PULSE and FERRO and so on, and there were only 14 mechs...
locust,wasp,stinger,phoenix hawk, shadowhawk, wolverine, griffin, rifleman, crusader, thunderbolt, warhammer, archer, marauder, battlemaster...
that was IT... so just curious out of that list, which of those mechs would you rate at the top?
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Ryoken. I defy anyone to find a better 'Mech in the game than the Ryoken. And don't give me the " Only true 'Mechs are IS 3025 'Mechs" bs because it ain't 3025 any more, no matter how much you old grognards want it to be. The universe has moved on. But it never moved on from 3050, where the greatest 'Mech in history showed up - the Ryoken. That thing can still kick it on the fields of the 3080's. Other great 'Mechs include the original Grasshopper, Mad Cat A, Orion, Imp, Jinggau, Nightstar, Centurion, Enforcer, the mighty Hunchback and the UrbanMech. The UrbanMech isn't a good 'Mech, but it is an awesome 'Mech.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
H.B.M.C. wrote:Ryoken.
I defy anyone to find a better 'Mech in the game than the Ryoken. And don't give me the " Only true 'Mechs are IS 3025 'Mechs" bs because it ain't 3025 any more, no matter how much you old grognards want it to be. The universe has moved on.
But it never moved on from 3050, where the greatest 'Mech in history showed up - the Ryoken. That thing can still kick it on the fields of the 3080's.
Eh, it has too much of a rear armor bias. I find it loses side torso far easier than a max armored 55 tonner should, and most of the configurations are only average at best. I have persoanlyy never believed that the Ryoken is the greatest 'Mech, because in order to be great, you need to be able to fight above your weight class, and the Ryoken can't, not with a great chance of success.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Nonsense. Prime and C are wonderful creations.
This 'Mech can punch above its weight easily.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
H.B.M.C. wrote:Nonsense. Prime and C are wonderful creations.
This 'Mech can punch above its weight easily.
Prime is massively oversinked. Pile of wasted tonnage on heat sinks it doesn't need. The "C" escapes me at the moment. LB-10X and Large Pulse laser? Sure, it can beat up a good Battle Armor squad, but it does even less damage than the Prime.
It might be able to punch a bit over it's weight, but it can't take it. As a fast flanker, it doesn't hit hard enough. It does average damage for a Clan design, which means it really isn't that threatening. If they had made configurations with ER PPCs it would probably change my opinion, but to me it is just sub-optimal in it's configurations. Combine that with wonky torso armor placement, and it is really only average. Just because it moves 6/9 doesn't make it amazing, because again the bad configurations never gave it jump capability to exploit that speed.
13920
Post by: Duce
Love quite a few mechs, Thor, timberwolf, centurion, awesome, as well as the lil light mechs like panthers, commandos and such... I love abou 99% of the mechs in the game, the newer WOB ones just make me feel their not battletech.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
When we played it was 3025 still, because after all the clan tech and ancient Star League stuff started appearing, we found that the game wasn't as fun any more. The more complicated FASA made things, the less we played. SO we just went back to 3025 Tech Readout for mechs... of these, a few I have a fondness for: Thunderbolt, Centurion, Dragon, AWESOME, Marauder, Archer, and Valkyrie all come to mind as solid mechs for 3025... others I wouldn't touch with a stick: Vulcan (massively under-armed), Urbanmech (just a bad idea), Jagermech and Rifleman, (underarmored) Dervish (keeps its SRM ammo in its ARMS!?), Cicada (just a big Locust) to name a few.
I really don't think any of those mechs from that technical readout were 'optimum' except maybe the Awesome. All of them had something flukey about them, something useless (machineguns on the Stinger?) but that's why it was cool. They are all flawed.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Guitardian wrote:When we played it was 3025 still, because after all the clan tech and ancient Star League stuff started appearing, we found that the game wasn't as fun any more. The more complicated FASA made things, the less we played. SO we just went back to 3025 Tech Readout for mechs... of these, a few I have a fondness for: Thunderbolt, Centurion, Dragon, AWESOME, Marauder, Archer, and Valkyrie all come to mind as solid mechs for 3025... others I wouldn't touch with a stick: Vulcan (massively under-armed), Urbanmech (just a bad idea), Jagermech and Rifleman, (underarmored) Dervish (keeps its SRM ammo in its ARMS!?), Cicada (just a big Locust) to name a few.
I really don't think any of those mechs from that technical readout were 'optimum' except maybe the Awesome. All of them had something flukey about them, something useless (machineguns on the Stinger?) but that's why it was cool. They are all flawed.
The Vulcan, Urby [Or as we call it R2 with a 10 guage], Mick-Jager and the Rifleman are some of my favorites.
The RFL-3N has the ability to raly dish it out. As I put it earler I put the Medium Lasers out the rear. I run her hot [7-14 points] and are constantly moving. When I get to hot I just use the Autocannons. When my Front Armor is gone I turn around and let the Tinfoil absorm a Volly and feed them the Medium Lasers. Most of our games only last 10 turns so I never stop firing the Autocannons. Realy the only other mod I do it Replace the Medium Lasers for a Pair of Small Lasers and add a Tone of AC/5 Ammo.
As one player puts it I dance with my Rifleman.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
That is very awesome way of playing a rifleman. I just noticed that every time I used one I would get hot, and it would have a leg shot off easily.
I think Cicadas might have been intentioned just for ramming into things at high speeds. I think in many cases heat is a huge issue with that era mechs because of the lack of double sinks, like the mech designers back at FASA deliberately made them kind of 'problematic'... anything from stupid weapons placement, poor armor allocation in one area or another, too few sinks for their weapons, etc.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
They built them "Realisticaly"
Remember: You are using a weapon built by the lowest bidder
21313
Post by: Vulcan
Tyyr wrote:The people who designs these mechs are designing weapons of war that will cost tens of millions of C-Bills and be responsible for the defense of their nation and yet the look like someone spent five minutes in megamek designing them. I'm not saying every mech should be perfectly tweaked and optimized but they should look like someone put some serious thought into the design and the "quirks" should be understandable trade offs and not look like oversights on the part of the drunken monkeys that slapped it together.
I will remind you of the design process for the FB-111, that started with a contract for a U.S. Navy fighter, and ended with an aircraft TOTALLY unsuited for the Navy's needs...
7116
Post by: Belphegor
My favorite mechs are also my favorite lance.
Centurion, Enforcer, Crusader, Catapult
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Guitardian wrote:That is very awesome way of playing a rifleman. I just noticed that every time I used one I would get hot, and it would have a leg shot off easily.
I think Cicadas might have been intentioned just for ramming into things at high speeds. I think in many cases heat is a huge issue with that era mechs because of the lack of double sinks, like the mech designers back at FASA deliberately made them kind of 'problematic'... anything from stupid weapons placement, poor armor allocation in one area or another, too few sinks for their weapons, etc.
When the 3025 designs were made there WERE no double heat sinks to put on them. It was technological decline. They didn't want to maximize every design because they wanted variety and a reason to use them all.
768
Post by: BAWTRM
Guitardian wrote: All of them had something flukey about them, something useless (machineguns on the Stinger?) ...
I've dumped players in a massive cityscape with tons of cheap infantry squads hidden all around. Machineguns became really hot items!
Note: The players couldn't simply level the city. They were mercs in a campaing (also no good to be known as indiscriminate murderers) whose contract stipulated keeping the city as whole as possible (declining money otherwise) and the planetary militia would also turn against them.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Another Favorite of mine is the Blackjack
One nasty mod I came up with is take a Jenner and Replace the SRM-4 with a LRM-5 and run them in 3s with Grand Dragon.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
I like the blackjack variant that replaces those ridiculous AC2s with LLs and heat sinks. That guy is tough.
12914
Post by: FoxPhoenix135
I loved the good ol' standby of the Vindicator. I also liked the Panther. And the Awesome. Pretty much anything with PPCs, I dunno why.
21967
Post by: Tyyr
Vulcan wrote:I will remind you of the design process for the FB-111, that started with a contract for a U.S. Navy fighter, and ended with an aircraft TOTALLY unsuited for the Navy's needs...
And if the final result had a top speed of 200 mph, could carry only a single 500 lb. bomb, and had an operational range of 80 miles it would have been a screw up on the order of ohhh, the entire Jagermech series. The FB-111 wasn't great, but it's not Sentinel bad.
With the resurgence of technology this is no longer the case and we get to the situation you were describing. I guess we were really referring to different time periods.
Given that you're describing a 3025 tech level which hasn't been the default of the setting for about 20 years, yeah we're talking about different things. I'm talking CBT circa 2010, not circa 1988.
The Stormcrow is a heck of a mech. Against inner sphere opponents it's hell on wheels but against clan opponents it suffers the same problem as any 6/9 55 tonner, it's on the wrong side of the engine mass curve and gives up too much for its speed. It has a place for sure, I own two of them and use them a lot, but against a mech like a Timberwolf or lord help it a Nova Cat it gets curb stomped, hard.
768
Post by: BAWTRM
Tyyr wrote:
Given that you're describing a 3025 tech level which hasn't been the default of the setting for about 20 years, yeah we're talking about different things. I'm talking CBT circa 2010, not circa 1988.
You seem to forget that Battletech system is one where only the basic rules have changed over the years, but all previous (lower tech) mechs are still as valid as they ever were. Battletech describes a fictional timeline and players are free to play in any of the 'settings'. Your referring to the year that certain mechs types were created IRL and assuming that the mechs from later on in the timeline are somehow 'more valid' than the older ones is like saying Flame of War players cannot play any of the early war theatres because newer ones have been released describing late war theatres.
Most of my personal games tend to go from 3020 to 3055. That's because I own most of the rules from this period, most of my minis are from this period and people in my gaming group just like the quirkiness of the older mech designs. But we do go for the cutting edge battles from 3055+ occasionally. They offer a nice change because you really need to adapt the way you play. It's just that we prefer the way you need to play in the older settings more.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Amen to that too. The game was more fun the less complicated the technology got. Yeah... 1988 tech is about when I started playing this game. 1998 is probably right around when I finaly got sick of all the changes over a decade.
And btw, the Vindicator (as mentioned above) was a good mech now that I remember it. Those things were TOUGH for their size. The only problem was that we played very 'fluff' story-oriented games, so it would have to be a lance of Liao mechs (or maybe mercenaries) if it had a Vindicator. At that time, Liao was reputed to lack the facilities to manufacture any mech over 60 tons or thereabouts, so if you got a Vindicator, you weren't getting a Battlemaster or Marauder to go with it. Same scenario with the Panther, Zeus, Valkyrie, Enforcer, Dragon, Hermes II, Jenner, Commando... all the origional very house specific designs). Didn't use them much since we were playing a 'mercenary' campaign. Unless you were lucky enough to shoot one up and not destroy it you didn't get house mechs. Our 'DM' made that a rule of how he ran our little Battletech universe, that way when you do actually get an efficient mech design, it's like finding the magic sword or something. Other than that, you're stuck in your inherited Jagermech or Charger or whatever and making the best of it.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Amen to that too. The game was more fun the less complicated the technology got. Yeah... 1988 tech is about when I started playing this game. 1998 is probably right around when I finaly got sick of all the changes over a decade.
And btw, the Vindicator (as mentioned above) was a good mech now that I remember it. Those things were TOUGH for their size. The only problem was that we played very 'fluff' story-oriented games, so it would have to be a lance of Liao mechs (or maybe mercenaries) if it had a Vindicator. At that time, Liao was reputed to lack the facilities to manufacture any mech over 60 tons or thereabouts, so if you got a Vindicator, you weren't getting a Battlemaster or Marauder to go with it. Same scenario with the Panther, Zeus, Valkyrie, Enforcer, Dragon, Hermes II, Jenner, Commando... all the origional very house specific designs). Didn't use them much since we were playing a 'mercenary' campaign. Unless you were lucky enough to shoot one up and not destroy it you didn't get house mechs. Our 'DM' made that a rule of how he ran our little Battletech universe, that way when you do actually get an efficient mech design, it's like finding the magic sword or something. Other than that, you're stuck in your inherited Jagermech or Charger or whatever and making the best of it.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Ah, the Charger
I was running a MechWarrior Campaign once with a light change of background.
I had some Alien races and the ClanTech belonged to Com-Star, the PC’s had access to Elementals.
I had all of them out on a training mission with just a Tech’s Pack-Rat, other than that the only other piece of Wargear was the one PC’s Elemental Point [Flamers], when the planet was assaulted.
They eventually they found an enemy camp with 2 Mechs [Charger and a Firestarter] and a Aircraft. They waited until dark and attacked. As the PC’s and the Pack-Rat Attacked the ground crew and pilots the Elemental went for the Mech and the Aircraft. When he got to the aircraft he reached into the cockpit and grabbed the pilot by the head and tried to throw him out. Well the straps held, but the pilot did not. Then he bounded over the Charger and this time grabbed the Pilot by the chest this time, once more the Straps held but not the pilot [The Tech was not happy and made the elemental hose out both Cockpits]. Well what they captured was a Charger, a Firestarter and a PHX LAM. This pleased everyone, but the young nobles who got stuck with the Charger, he immediately started to complain about the 5 Small Lasers.
As they slowly went back to their lines they got in to a few more fights including a Hunchback, that had its right leg taken out completely by the Elementals Flamers, but during this time the Young Nobel kept whining about the 3 Small Lasers and the group would just look at him and say “It’s a Charger, Think about it!”.
Well as the game progressed the Elemental Point kept being taken down to the last man but the PC and this was purely by luck. We started calling them the Timmy Squad, [We are going to need another Squad of Timmy’s].
Eventually after 4-5 games the Young Nobel found himself 7 hexes from a Whitworth [I think], and charged it successfully! The expression of understanding was totally worth the whining.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
yeah 80 tons moving 8 hexes will knock out the hoover damn. Every time I tried to 'charge' with my charger I MISSED. Dice gods hate stupid mechs... but if I had ever got that ONE good hit I would have ended up loving that mech. I had a Banshee once too (origional, unmodified, complete crap) which I was going to sell off for a modified BLACKJACK for chrissake, because it was a better mech (hmm.. 95 tons for 45 tons? Banshee must really really suck, huh?) but then I got in a fist fight with it after most of its weapons got shot up... and when your fists are doing the talking, you suddenly remember how cool it is to weigh 95 tons. I had considered sellling it off and was making the deal with the other player in our league who had the Blackjack, but I never ended up trading it after that game. WHAM! WHAM! do the only thing you're good at and go punch stuff!
21313
Post by: Vulcan
Tyyr wrote:Vulcan wrote:I will remind you of the design process for the FB-111, that started with a contract for a U.S. Navy fighter, and ended with an aircraft TOTALLY unsuited for the Navy's needs...
And if the final result had a top speed of 200 mph, could carry only a single 500 lb. bomb, and had an operational range of 80 miles it would have been a screw up on the order of ohhh, the entire Jagermech series. The FB-111 wasn't great, but it's not Sentinel bad.
Let's go over that again. A fighter in the U.S. Navy - you know, the service that specializes in flying planes off of boats - made with landing gear that couldn't withstand the stresses of catapult lauches OR arresting gear landings. And wasn't worth spit in it's designated air-to-air role either! There's a reason the Air Force version is the F B-111, not the F-111.
Congress, on the other hand, thought it was magnificent because it catered to their needs - jobs on their districts. Regardless of whether it met the actual needs of the Navy.
And that sort of thing is how you wind up with things like the Jagermech (which actually does do well at its primary role - shooting down aircraft. Not so well vs. Aerospace fighters, true, but against conventional fighters and VTOLs it is Death Itself).
18176
Post by: Guitardian
oh dear oh dear... Are we comparing our national defense to the 'fail' list of incompetent mechs in a fictitious 3025 era. I'm sure the list goes on and on, right? (the ten dollar rolls of toilet paper for the pentagon budget in the 80s come to mind).
So who sucks?
jagermechs (who weren't even good at their primary role), charger, cicada, shadowhawk, vulcan, Hermes II (an AC/5 on a 40 tonner are you kidding me?) urbanWRECK (PPC variant much better), banshee (95 tons of fail), goliath (gimpy rules), stinger (machineguns?!), dervish (arm ammo), shadowhawk (schizophrenic applications), stalker (WAAAY too much heat), phoenix hawk (poor weapons placement), ANYTHING with an AC/2, that's just to name a few, but I could probably pick through more than half the mechs in 3025 and find design flaws that are no-brainers to the gamer mind, but integral to the plot. I assume we are all in agreement about this. They weren't meant to be good.
But what was good? Grasshoppers were IMO an excellent efficiency mech, as were Valkyrie, Awesome (duh! hence the name), Vindicators (Vindicated house Liao from totally sucking), and... I want to nominate a couple others to the list of 'mechs-that-don't-suck-from-3025'.... Quickdraw... so fast, so jumpy, so MEDIUM-LASERY, and with the heat sinks to keep it real. Same thing with the Grasshopper. With something like the 5/8/5 quickdraw, backmounts are awesome in-game, just look bad on paper, but when you play it, you notice. Crusader also never ceased to amaze me with its staying power. That is a truly multi-faceted weapon output, and, while heat complaints arise, realize that it has two completely different capabilities. It was not meant to fire all its weapons, but its optimum weapons for a given range, with armor to let it stand. Its weapons, as were the 'Stalker' weapons, were obviously intended to be in different range brackets, not all fired at once, but carefully designed to have this punch at this distance and that punch at that distance. I thought that was pretty cool when I finally realized the crusader was actually really well thought out for its heat sinks.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
oh dear oh dear... Are we comparing our national defense to the 'fail' list of incompetent mechs in a fictitious 3025 era. I'm sure the list goes on and on, right? (the ten dollar rolls of toilet paper for the pentagon budget in the 80s come to mind).
So who sucks?
jagermechs (who weren't even good at their primary role), charger, cicada, shadowhawk, vulcan, Hermes II (an AC/5 on a 40 tonner are you kidding me?) urbanWRECK (PPC variant much better), banshee (95 tons of fail), goliath (gimpy rules), stinger (machineguns?!), dervish (arm ammo), shadowhawk (schizophrenic applications), stalker (WAAAY too much heat), phoenix hawk (poor weapons placement), ANYTHING with an AC/2, that's just to name a few, but I could probably pick through more than half the mechs in 3025 and find design flaws that are no-brainers to the gamer mind, but integral to the plot. I assume we are all in agreement about this. They weren't meant to be good.
But what was good? Grasshoppers were IMO an excellent efficiency mech, as were Valkyrie, Awesome (duh! hence the name), Vindicators (Vindicated house Liao from totally sucking), and... I want to nominate a couple others to the list of 'mechs-that-don't-suck-from-3025'.... Quickdraw... so fast, so jumpy, so MEDIUM-LASERY, and with the heat sinks to keep it real. Same thing with the Grasshopper. With something like the 5/8/5 quickdraw, backmounts are awesome in-game, just look bad on paper, but when you play it, you notice. Crusader also never ceased to amaze me with its staying power. That is a truly multi-faceted weapon output, and, while heat complaints arise, realize that it has two completely different capabilities. It was not meant to fire all its weapons, but its optimum weapons for a given range, with armor to let it stand. Its weapons, as were the 'Stalker' weapons, were obviously intended to be in different range brackets, not all fired at once, but carefully designed to have this punch at this distance and that punch at that distance. I thought that was pretty cool when I finally realized the crusader was actually really well thought out for its heat sinks.
207
Post by: Balance
Don't stats like this often ignore 'real world' considerations like logistics? I don't remember Battletech having much for out-of-combat concerns. (There's some campaign rules for maintenance and such, but I don't remember any system to show stuff like the Urbanmech being really easy to repair or something.)
3802
Post by: chromedog
I always liked the Mad Dog (Vulture).
Never managed to get the Biasi studios one in 28mm (much as I wanted one).
I did at one stage have a bunch of 1/72 scale battlemechs though (From "Fang of the Sun, Battle armour Dougram" and "Crusher Joe" (and a couple of Macross ones). Was fun when mates and I would play with the rules from the compendium for terrain (and a 2" hex size so all movements were doubled and in inches").
18080
Post by: Anpu42
We did that. The cool games though were when a freind of ours dad bar got closed down for an off ramp we ended up with on of those 7'x11' [i think] pool tables in his garage. 3x 250lbs pieces of slate. Normaly when somone would hit the table mini's would fall over, on this one the player went over.
27536
Post by: The Fox Lord
Battlemaster with Comand Cockpit...Nuff Said
21313
Post by: Vulcan
You start with this: Guitardian wrote: ...stalker (WAAAY too much heat)...
And then go to this: Crusader also never ceased to amaze me with its staying power. That is a truly multi-faceted weapon output, and, while heat complaints arise, realize that it has two completely different capabilities. It was not meant to fire all its weapons, but its optimum weapons for a given range, with armor to let it stand. Its weapons, as were the 'Stalker' weapons, were obviously intended to be in different range brackets, not all fired at once, but carefully designed to have this punch at this distance and that punch at that distance. I thought that was pretty cool when I finally realized the crusader was actually really well thought out for its heat sinks.
Either you're talking about a different 'mech in the first statement, or you're being dreadfully inconsistant, because both Crusader and Stalker have much the same 'range bracket' firepower theories. I personally think the main flaw with the Stalker is that it has too much LRM ammo (12 per launcher would have done just fine), freeing extra mass for some much-needed armor. Other than that I think the Stalker is pretty darn good.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Nah... It's not inconsistent. The crusader is either all LRM range, or all ML/SRM range (plus the little machineguns and its weight for kicking if you end up really close). The Stalker confused me with those awkward range large lasers which are a temptation to fire in conjunction with either the short dishout or the long dishout. Its always tempting to take that extra shot hoping for the best, but then you end up high on heat and missing anyways. The Crusader never gave you that option, so didn't encourage risky heat management shooting like the Stalker did. Tell me it isn't tempting to 'go for it' with a large laser at medium range... then you tack on your movement, your target movement, maybe some minor heat buildup, and all of a sudden you need 10+ or 11+ and just shot your heat way up. I think large lasers are best used in conjunction with either other large lasers, or AC-10/AC-5 because of the comparable range. It falls in the 'neither-here-nor-there' range bracket. Don't get me wrong I loved LL, but I just find that they don't mix well with the optimum range of any other weapons but their own kind.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
The Larges on a Stalker are to be used at any range past 6. Until you get closer the Mediums have worse numbers, and they can be used pretty easily with either set of missile launchers.
And if you have a heavy armor target, at close range I tend to keep using the larges for hole punching ability.
Don't be afraid to mix it up with the Stalker, the Larges are far more important than the Mediums on it. The mediums shouldn't be in play unless you are in short range for them, or the target is already heavily damaged.
9777
Post by: A-P
Favourites by time period and weight class:
Classic 3025 IS
Light- Jenner
Medium- Wolverine-M
Heavy- Grasshopper
Assault- Highlander
Clan Invasion 3050 to Op Bulldog IS/Clan
Light- Wolfhound 2/Dragonfly
Medium- Wraith/Ryoken
Heavy- Dragonfire/Madcat
Assault- Devastator/Daishi
18176
Post by: Guitardian
I remember the first time my bud used a lance of Wraiths against me... I had what could be considered a 3025 era combined arms force: Led by a Cyclops, lots of strange Cnc type units, a few urbanmechs (on a forest board) and some light tanks. He had a lance full of wraiths. Oh good lord did he just completely slaughter me. Jumping 7 every turn, shooting pulse so they can still hit but I JUST CAN'T HIT THEIR J7. SOOOOoooooo very lopsided matchup. We laughed about it the next time I played him and I only took a force full of targetting computers. I didn't like new-tech though anyways. I don't see how anyone can bring down a lance of Wraith. They jump so far, so fast, and still shoot straight, AND they have good armor, before you know it there's one in every fire arc and their hitting your slow mech in the back no matter which way it turns, and you STILL CAN'T HIT!. ugh.
9288
Post by: DevianID
For the 3025 era, in terms of looks its all about the warhammer for me. If I had to pick a middle ground stock mech it would be the Hunchback. Medium mechs were supposed to be the most common mech, and up close nothing hits like a Hunchback.
If I myself had to pilot a stock mech, I would have to go Griffin. The Griffin had a great 'stay the eff away from me' ability, and if you personally were slugging it out in the btech universe I doubt very much you would want to be in anything slower or shorter ranged than a griffin... Hello lance of assault mechs, goodbye lance of assault mechs, Ill be over here running away from you now.
Nothing worse than being cut down by a superior force cause you choose to ride in a 100 ton metal monster like an Atlas that, while scary, cant get out of a bad situation.
After the 3025 stuff, a lot of the mechs started to bleed together, especially since they tried to fill the 'unseen' mech gap with similiar designs that were not nearly as cool. For example, how many Marauder stand ins did they make? The Dragonsfire, Maelstrom?, Bandersnatch, and Nightstar all come to mind as Marauder/Mad II wannabes--they may not be bad designs game wise, but they dont feel the same as a marauder did.
As an aside, my fav late period IS mech would have to be the Avatar omni... The thing has character despite being an omni, with its hard wired weapons and case since when it was unveiled IS omni-tech was still wacky. Also, the video game mechs had some GREAT potential, but for some reason they mucked up so much of the rules for the TT versions. IE, the Uziel was simply fantastic looking, and became the cover art for many a publication, BUT the base version was the beyond dumb--the LB2x version instead of the video game dual PPC version made less than no sense. They also hit the Thanatos and Osiris with the nerf bat--though the Argus was made awesome in retrospect.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Guitardian wrote:I remember the first time my bud used a lance of Wraiths against me... I had what could be considered a 3025 era combined arms force: Led by a Cyclops, lots of strange Cnc type units, a few urbanmechs (on a forest board) and some light tanks. He had a lance full of wraiths. Oh good lord did he just completely slaughter me. Jumping 7 every turn, shooting pulse so they can still hit but I JUST CAN'T HIT THEIR J7. SOOOOoooooo very lopsided matchup. We laughed about it the next time I played him and I only took a force full of targetting computers. I didn't like new-tech though anyways. I don't see how anyone can bring down a lance of Wraith. They jump so far, so fast, and still shoot straight, AND they have good armor, before you know it there's one in every fire arc and their hitting your slow mech in the back no matter which way it turns, and you STILL CAN'T HIT!. ugh.
The Wraith's biggest weakness is that exact tactic. You KNOW exactly what it is going to do every turn. It can't do anything else. All you have to do is position yourself so that the Wraith is FORCED to jump somewhere where you have multiple units getting decent shots at it. Don't move anymore than walking, and just move around relatively clustered, so when one comes in, most of your units get shots on it. Make sure you have a few pulse lasers yourself, and the enemy will soon find it isn't worth it to jump in close due to volume of fire.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
@DevianID
Regarding the Hunchback: yes it hits hard. It is also fairly slow and has no range and very little AC/20 ammo for a prolonged fight. We used to just always target the hunchback first if one was brought, and skirt around it as it advanced, so it never survived to use its ammo much. Its powerhouse reputation was also its weakness.
Regarding the Griffin, I completely agree. Those always seemed to be the last one standing in a battle where the rest of the lance was wiped. Something to do with being fast and long range and good armor. Only complaint about that guy is that he has no weapons that fire up close, and it could get mobbed by light fast short range mechs like wasps and spiders and such, and be unable to shoot. Fortunately Griffin was often in a lance with some other mech who was more short-range oriented (hunchback?), to swat away the 'bugs' (thats what we call 'em)
18080
Post by: Anpu42
You want something different, we got two.
1] The Stinger Drill! everyone Takes a stinger, a 4/5 Pilot and One Map Board.
2] The 100 Ton-Maxi:
3025 Tech
Each Person is alloud to take up to 100 Tons in any combination
When your Mechs are finaly taken out you can bring out another 100 tons.
These two will kill an evening.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Anpu42 wrote:You want something different, we got two.
1] The Stinger Drill! everyone Takes a stinger, a 4/5 Pilot and One Map Board.
2] The 100 Ton-Maxi:
3025 Tech
Each Person is alloud to take up to 100 Tons in any combination
When your Mechs are finaly taken out you can bring out another 100 tons.
These two will kill an evening.
Combine the two! everyone gets a stinger and a custom 100 tonner. That would be a beer soaked, pretzel eating fun evening!
"the stinger drill" such a funny concept. One of the best concept games we played was the origional Black Widow Company versus Cranston Snord's Irregulars. See... the Black Widow had better mechs (they had a marauder) on the heavy end, while Snords Irregulars had better pilots in some pretty janky mechs. Cranston Snord's book was possibly the best battletech fluff they ever made. Who doesn't love the 'gang of misfits' idea as heros, and detest the Draconis serving 'corporate power-bitch' enemy. I even had a crush on young Rhonda Snord when I was about 11 years old. That pose with that RPG slung over her shoulders... that unit ROCKED... and ALL of their mechs SUCKED!
I no longer have the book (Its been 20 years) but if I recall.... their command lance was Snord's Archer, 'Shorty' Sneed's converted phoenix-hammer hybrid (one of the best mechs ever made), Deb H'Chu (gazoontheight) with her PILOT:2 GUNNER:1 skills in a thunderbolt with problematic weapon systems, and that nerd guy I forget the name, Jake something (Sorenson?), with a warhammer with almost no leg armor.... attack lance was a Wolverine with structure damage to the left torso, a Shadowhawk (RHONDA!) that sucked, a Crusader (who was their rock), and a Rifleman (the loose cannon)... followed by a Recon Lance of 2 wasps, a locust, and a PHX... all piloted by brothers with sibling rivalry and such (the thomlinson brothers)... now thats a game.
Compare it to the Black Widow Company...
Warhammer, Marauder, Battlemaster, Archer
Griffin, Griffin, Wolverine, Phoenix
Rifleman, Stinger, Stinger, Wasp
The difference is that Snord had the pilots, while Natasha had the mechs. Those were good games. Natasha had 4/3 pilots and 5/4 pilots. Snord had failed junky mechs, but 2/1 or 1/2 pilots in many of them.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
The problem was Natasha herself should have been a much better pilot. She always had very poor stats in the old books because they were written before she was fleshed out as a Clan badass. I don't think she was really ever below a 2/2 myself, maybe even better. By the time the Clan invasion rolls around she is in her 70's (if not 80's) and a 0/0 pilot.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Well the matchup was good. Remember Cranston Snord's Irregulars and The Black Widow Company books came out before anyone at FASA had even concieved of The Clans. Kerensky was just a tough bitch in charge of a lance of other tough veteran types. Snord was a lucky and extremely talented misfit in charge of a bunch of other elite misfits, but stuck with mech who all had special rules for how broke down they are. That's why the matchup was good. According to storyline, perhaps Natasha should have been a better pilot/gunner in her later years, but usually she was known for the exploits of her whole company, not just herself and her black widow warhammer. The whole company, (given 3025 early books with only the origional 14 mechs to choose from), was pretty damn efficient. (who wants a pair of griffins instead of a undergunned shadowhawk and a pre-damaged wolverine, for instance?) Who wants a locust when you can get a wasp? Snord was deliberately poorly equipped by the game designers, but made up for with extraordinary pilots. That's why that matchup was always so fun. In fact, most of my Btech games in Jr. High involved the matchup of those two companies.
21967
Post by: Tyyr
BAWTRM wrote:You seem to forget that Battletech system is one where only the basic rules have changed over the years,
Yes, playing 3025 is perfectly valid and I do it quite often. The issue was that we weren't describing the game rules but the setting. The old school Mad-Max style setting was where CBT started back in the 80's but that time period of the game's history only lasted 3 or 4 years because in 1990 they advanced the story to the clans in 3050 and the setting hasn't had any resemblance to the Mad-Max style in twenty actual years. The rules are still valid, the mechs are still valid, but the setting you were describing was horribly out of date in reference to the game's fluff.
The Stinger's MG's really aren't that bad a choice. Back in the day when combined arms was something that happened only in the fluff they had no real use on the game board but today those MGs give the Stinger a job it can handle, infantry hunting. Honestly, it's a twenty ton mech, it's not like it's any good for a stand up mech to mech fight no matter what you hang on that frame.
The Stalker is an excellent mech and a case in point for why mechs that are willing to get hot are real killers in the hands of an experienced player. Yeah, it's brackets aren't perfect, but in 3025 those large lasers were nasty and having a pair backed up by that kind of missile spam was brutal. Sure you built some heat up but in 3025 if you aren't willing to flirt with an ammo explosion occasionally you aren't playing the game.
The Wraith is very very meh. In universe it's incredibly expensive and overweight light scout mech. It's on the wrong side of the exponential weight curve for engines meaning it's powerplant eats up WAY more tonnage than it should and costs a fortune. It's motive performance is equaled or exceeded by smaller, cheaper mechs even in the time-frame of its creation, and IS pulse weapons have never been that great. Move forward just five years game time when IS ER lasers start to appear and the medium pulsers are antiques, move forward another ten and that large pulser is easily substituted for a snub PPC, or heck, trade it for a PPC when the Wraith was designed. You'll get a better mech either way. In universe there are smaller, cheaper mechs that can do the same thing for much less expense. Out of universe in game terms it's a one trick pony who's maneuverability and low heat load mean it costs you way more in BV than it's capable of returning.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Yeah well my Wraith matchup was just plain uneven. I mean, a mobile command truck, a SRM carrier, a couple of pegasus hovertanks and vedette light tanks with their whopping AC/5, a 3025 cyclops, some rifle infantry (completely worthless against something that quick) and a couple of 3025 era Urbanmechs... versus 4 wraith. In a heavy forest board. Kind of an easy kill for the jumpy blasty "you can't hit me" guys as my far out-tonnage but massively slow 'command HQ' group was getting raided and slugging around like morons. I was elated when a single AC/20 shot from the Cyclops actually hit, only to find out that it just shot up some torso armor and the Wraith was still just fine systems-wise. Oh well, my experience is perhaps just due to the bad matchup technologically, but it left me with a fear of those things.
21967
Post by: Tyyr
That's a very bad technology match up. Wraiths are many things, underarmored isn't one of them. Against a bunch of pin pricks like your section was capable of putting out you'd be up a creek. Your only real hope is to wipe a torso section and get a kill that way thanks to the IS XL engine.
768
Post by: BAWTRM
I'd call that a match-up that's completely out of time frame!
Unless you'd intentionally want to portray what happens when some minor Periphery power with obsolete equipment encounters a far more advanced IS-lance (with terrain favoring the IS forces too), then such a game seems an excercise in futility.
I had once introduced a player to 3025 Battletech and we had played a good amount of games. He had some good experience with them and was a canny opponent. He didn't know anything about the background though.
So I planned out a game to (rudely) introduce him to the invading Clans. I took a mixed star (one of each weight category and an extra medium) and he got free choice out of any 3025 Mechs he wanted to take for more than twice the tonnage I had.
Of course he smelled a rat but we had played some pretty strange scenarios already so he expected to find himself in disadvantageous terrain. Much to his surprise he found his force on a large, almost completely open map facing just 5 enemy mechs.
Then came the introduction to Clan weaponry, armour and engines. He had pretty much a Phelan Kell experience when he finally managed to land a solid hit on one of my mechs and only found armour.
He lost his complete force, I lost a single mech. It was a big laugh for both of us though (he's a cool guy for whom the game is more important than the outcome) and we started to play all kinds of IS vs Clans or Clan vs Clan battles afterwards and he really got into the background as well. And some very lobsided games as well with rearguard actions and all.
But that was all intentional. Your game sounded like a pick up game where no previous agreement had been made. And that just doesn't work in Btech.
21967
Post by: Tyyr
That and you dumped vehicles in woods. It doesn't get much more sitting ducks than that. Your options are incredibly limited on where you can be so even if you're double blinding he knows exactly where you've gotta be with the bulk of your force and with an Urbie's speed they're nearly stationary turrets in woods.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Nah not a 'pickup game'. It was an intentional scenario. My 'C3' and its bodyguard who outweighed the attacking raiders by about 3x, but they... happened to penetrate to the rear to take out my command (think about it... Cyclops and mobileHQ, plus some scant defensive vehicles and ploddy little Urbanwrecks) The whole thing was story oriented, and that's why it went down so disgustingly bad. That's what happens when some advanced, quick raiders get behind your line and hit you in the jimmy. In campaign, the result of that slaughter was that the rest of the battles we played were done 'blind', where I had to set up mid-board, and whatever attacking lance got to choose where it came on board from since I no longer had communications. Fun fun fun (even though I ended up just trying to get back to the dropship with whatever was left of my scattered forces by the end of the campaign) House rules and creative scenarios are much easier in a game where you don't have to win tournaments against TFG and WAAC.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
My C3 Command Lance always had an "Motorized Infantry Rilfe Company". It was always paid for when we used the BPV system.
C3 Command
-Mauler
-Hatotato-Kaze
-Atlas
-Huang
-12x Foot Rifle Platoons
I would just sit back and let the Ifantry park at my feet. You would be amaized to watch Light Mechs not want to get within Rifle Range.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Anpu42 wrote:My C3 Command Lance always had an "Motorized Infantry Rilfe Company". It was always paid for when we used the BPV system.
C3 Command
-Mauler
-Hatotato-Kaze
-Atlas
-Huang
-12x Foot Rifle Platoons
I would just sit back and let the Ifantry park at my feet. You would be amaized to watch Light Mechs not want to get within Rifle Range.
How exactly did you justify having a Yu Huang in a Combine lance?
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Ral Partha used to sell premade lances, of which I had a couple... The notable one was the 'Regimental Command' including the ever-present Cyclops (for its computer fluff), an Atlas (the bodyguard), Ostscout (for its sensor fluff) and some other medium mech I don't remember. I always took that to be the 'standard', much like you don't look at the words 'fire lance' and not think 'Archer'. I always thought that was the whole point of a Cyclops (they kind of suck, but in fluff they have very sophisticated communications) was running a regiment from behind the lines. Regimental scale C3 aren't meant to be full of big beefy tough guy mechs, those brawlers go on the front line. It's mostly fluff. In the techs readout several mechs are attributed with special out-of-game advantages/disadvantages that don't effect game play at all (the Ostscout's sensors, the Hermes II's ability to transmit accross a planet, the Cyclops C3 computer, the Javelin's front-heavy tendancy to fall on its face, faulty ammo feeds and a weak mount on the Marauder's AC/5 etc). In game they made no difference, but out-of-game, for story line purposes, those kinds of little things are what turned playing Mechwarrior into a RPG as well as a board game.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Mattlov wrote:Anpu42 wrote:My C3 Command Lance always had an "Motorized Infantry Rilfe Company". It was always paid for when we used the BPV system.
C3 Command
-Mauler
-Hatotato-Kaze
-Atlas
-Huang
-12x Foot Rifle Platoons
I would just sit back and let the Ifantry park at my feet. You would be amaized to watch Light Mechs not want to get within Rifle Range.
How exactly did you justify having a Yu Huang in a Combine lance?
Maybe its the Tso ??????? I dont remeber it has been years.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
I put together a lance once just using the 'reject' pilots in the bios in 3025... I don't remember all the names, but I just found all the 'YOUR FIRED!!' kind of personalities and assumed they all got together. I know one of them was Fadre Sing, infamous insubordinate Centurion pilot and heavy-mech hunter.
If anyone still has the 3025 book you can look up the pilots and I'm pretty sure you would recognize the gang of thugs I was trying to work with.
Centurion
Jagermech
Assassin
Commando (LL mod)
Hey anyone remember 'Wilsons Hussars' from the 'mercenaries' book? Those guys were so much fun too. Their crap mechs in no particular organization versus 'Team Banzai' with all their super-sophisticated mech refits (and that Elvira chick jumpship pilot in her Orion), makes for a fun evening too. 4 elite pilots in elite mechs versus a whole company of the galaxy's biggest losers.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
I remeber Willson's Hussars, I actualy ran them for a while.
21313
Post by: Vulcan
Allrightie, slight drift here - and be forewarned, a long post ahead.
I was wondering how the old (3025) mechs stacked up in armor protection. Not so much in absolute terms, but relative to the maximum weight of armor the designs could have carried. And I discovered a few surprises...
But first, the 10 Best Armored Mechs (relative to theorectical maximum). There are lots of ties here, so bear with me, my 10 best winds up being 16. 
1) Atlas / Thunderbolt: 99%
2) Orion: 97%
3) Archer / Grasshopper: 96%
4) Hunchback: 95%
5) Goliath/Vindicator: 94%
6) Whitworth: 93%
7) Locust: 92% (Surprise!)
8) Crusader / UrbanMech / Valkrye: 91%
9) Blackjack: 89%
10) Battlemaster / Hermes II: 88%
Honorable mention to the Panther (just missed the top 10 at 87%), the Phoenix Hawk (all that speed and firepower, and still rates an 84%), and the classic medium triplets - Griffin, Shadow Hawk, and Wolverine - at 82%
But what would a best 10 list be without a worst 10 to compare them to?
10) Dervish / Charger: 65%
9) Quickdraw: 64%
8) Javelin: 61%
7) Ottscout / Scorpion / Rifleman: 60%
6) Vulcan (my personal shame. : 58%
5) Cyclops: 57%
4) Jenner: 54%
3) Assassin / Clint / Spider: 53%
2) Cicada: 47%
1) Jagermech: 45%
Dishonorable mention goes to the Hatchetman. Designed first and foremost for close assault, it narrowly missed the bottom 10 at 68%. And that's before correcting it to pay for that hatchet, which they didn't do in my printing of the book...
And what were they thinking, giving the premeir command and control barely half it's maximum protection? If there was ever a mech that needed maximum armor, the Cyclops was it. 
9454
Post by: Mattlov
The Cyclops isn't designed for line combat. It sits back at a base and uses the communications suite it has. It is armed for when people find it.
Besides, with an engine that size you can only do so much. As it is, you just get a slightly faster, half the armor Atlas.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
That's a pretty cool compare and contrast thing you have going on there. With the exceptions of Jenner, Assassin, and possibly Clint, the bottom list is pretty much all the mechs I hated getting stuck with. With the exception of Urbanwreck, Goliath, and Hermes II, the top list is pretty much all mechs I consider to be fairly decent success stories.
I think the underarmored mechs are usually that way because of poor weapon allocation usually involving mounting autocannons which, while good on heat, weigh way too much for smaller mechs (Clint, HermesII, Jager, Rifle, Vulc all good examples). The other culprit is engines far too big compensating for the fact that the mech is too heavy for its own good. The Cyclops, Cicada, Quickdraw all good examples of "why don't you just make it 10 tons lighter? You'll get more armor and still carry the same weapons".
Once upon a time When I was really bored I started experimenting around with ideas like making an exact duplicate of a Quickdraw but 5 tons lighter just to see how much more efficient it was, or trying out a 80 ton Cyclops.
When we first started playing we just thought along the lines of 'heavier mech = tougher mech'. Compare a Cicada and a Locust. Both have the same amount of armor (64), both move 8/12/0, and both have 3 tons of weaponry and only the basic 10 sinks. Cicada is essentially a redundant copy of a Locust, with it's only improvement being having a handful of extra structure points and charging harder (That's what I always used it for when I got stuck with one, it's really the only thing it has going for it). All that engine space just to make it twice as heavy and still moving at Locust speed.
I used the freeware 'mechwar' simulator to test out the scenario. I had my computer run 100 sim games of 4 Locust versus 4 Cicada and the Cicada only came out with 53% win versus 47% for the Locust. Not a considerable difference for weighing twice as much... again "why don't you just make it lighter?"... "oh yeah, then it would be a Locust again."
Really when evaluating a mech design you look at these factors:
(1) engine compared to weight. Is it pointlessly trying to move too fast for its size?
(2) How much armor is piled on the thing?
(3)How good is the heat management for the weapons load/jumpjets?
(4) how stupidly were the weapons mounted?
This makes a Grasshopper one of the most efficient mechs in that era. It can manage its heat, jump capable, well armored, and has intelligent weapon placement. The PhoenixHawk by contrast, looks like an okay mech at first glance. Well armored, fast, decent weapons. Then you realize that it can't jump and fire without running hot, and that its arms keep getting blown off leaving it hopping around trying to Death-from-above just to try and not be completely useless.
As far as placement goes, here's an example of 'intelligent' placement: the best place for a leftover ML or a heat sink is in the head because it makes it one less likely for some catastrophic crit result to take the mech out, and if you a have a laser in the head, you know that thing will still be firing until the head is blown off and you're dead anyway, for instance. Dice are a factor so it's best to array your mech so as to allow the least possibility for bad luck to completely screw you.
Look at the Dervish as a perfect example of a great design with dumb placements. At a glance it has good weapons for all ranges, decent armor, good speed. Then you realize that it had a slot of SRM2 ammo in each arm. Kind of a big risk of ammo blow just for a pair of plinky SRM2s. I never once saw a Dervish that didn't die from an ammo explosion. Dumb.
91
Post by: Hordini
There are quite a few mechs that I dig, but since I was introduced to Battletech via Mechwarrior 2, most of my favorite mechs are clan mechs.
Here's a few of my top favorites:
Mad Dog
Summoner
Hellbringer
Timberwolf
Fire Moth
Kit Fox
Cougar
Dire Wolf
Some Inner Sphere mechs that I like:
Atlas
Bushwacker
Awesome
Warhammer
Uziel
Templar
443
Post by: skyth
I'm a fan of the older 3025 Mechs, especially the Unseen
Archer (Especially the S version)
Warhammer
T-Bolt
Battlemaster
Wolfhound
Catapult
Trebuchet
Valkryie
Marauder (For rule of cool. It's not a very good mech unless you do some redesigning. Typically I replace the PPC's with large lasers and the AC/5 with a PPC Excess weight is turned into heat sinks and maybe more armor )
Favorite Clan mech is the Black Python. I designed a 70 ton Omni version of it (Steel Python). I also liked the Mad Dog with all the SRM's and the LB-5X.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Marauder with the LL plus heat sinks in place of the AC/5 and ammo and LL in place of the PPCs! I think it was the Marik version but it's been a while and then some since I had that book. That was quite possibly the ultimate 3025 mech. Drop 23 tons of PPC and AC stuff, add 3 LL in place of the PPC and AC/5 and fit in 7 more sinks and you are blasting every turn and never overheating, with only a slightly smaller damage output (24 vs 25) but that whole shoot every turn thing helps a lot, plus you no longer worry about minimum range penalties with LL.
1303
Post by: Relic_OMO
The ideal tech level for me is IS 3050. It has a few extra toys that provide some real decisions and tradeoffs vs the very basic 3025 tech, but not the overkill that is Clan tech. It's too easy to make ideal mechs with Clan tech - you don't have to make any real tradeoffs, you can just pack everything in you want. The mech design has always been the best part of BattleTech, and I always like to take it further and look at cost-effectiveness for a mech and for lance and army design too - how you might choose your military's designs based on strategic goals and the cost of achieving them.
There are lots of highly effective designs at the 3050 tech level, and I love a lot of them, but I've always been a medium mech sort of person at heart. And if I had to pick one favourite, it'd be the 3S Phoenix Hawk. It certainly wasn't anything close to minmaxed, but you could do a lot with that thing. Maybe I only like it because of some fond memories of games with it, but I still do.
21313
Post by: Vulcan
Alright, slight diversion.
Anyone have strong opinions about the various vehicle designs of the BT universe?
I obviously like the Savannah Master; it's just about the best way to get a medium laser into battle! I also like the Regualtor Hovertank; anything that can do 9/14 and carry a gauss rifle is great in my book!
On the other hand, the Rotunda really bugs me. It's an urban recon vehicle that is disguised as a sports car... a twenty ton sports car. A 40,000 lb sports car. I can only assume that Star League roads were a lot more heavily reinforced to take that kind of pressure...
For that matter, pretty much all of the wheeled vehicles suck. How many of them have wheels just hanging out there, no armor at all, just waiting to be shot off?
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Vulcan wrote:Alright, slight diversion.
Anyone have strong opinions about the various vehicle designs of the BT universe?
I obviously like the Savannah Master; it's just about the best way to get a medium laser into battle! I also like the Regualtor Hovertank; anything that can do 9/14 and carry a gauss rifle is great in my book!
On the other hand, the Rotunda really bugs me. It's an urban recon vehicle that is disguised as a sports car... a twenty ton sports car. A 40,000 lb sports car. I can only assume that Star League roads were a lot more heavily reinforced to take that kind of pressure...
For that matter, pretty much all of the wheeled vehicles suck. How many of them have wheels just hanging out there, no armor at all, just waiting to be shot off?
Well, the roads can generally support a 100 ton 'Mech with two giant footpads the size of a ground car, so I bet it could support a 20 ton car alright.
It is very difficult to armor a wheel properly. Sure, you could put a plate in front of it, and as son as it gets hit it curls in onto the wheel, effectively destroying the tire anyway. The ability for wheel and axle play is more useful than an armor plate which will almost guaranteed get in the way.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
I liked the Demolisher. I would not want to get in an arguement with those double AC/20s if cramped in a city. As far as wheels versus tracks, don't tracks get thrown all the time as the most common way of disabling a tank? Seems pretty similar to me how vulnerable they could potentially be.
1303
Post by: Relic_OMO
The Savannah Master is of course excellent, and in keeping with the classic BT philosophy of tanks - cheap, and designed to be used en masse. Heavy emphasis on the cheap.
In a similar vein, the LRM/SRM carriers are excellent. But my favourite has to be the Saladin - fast, cheap, able to close with an AC/20. No tank squadron can compete with Saladin squadrons for cost and mass-effectiveness.
443
Post by: skyth
Vehicle? What's a vehicle?
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Its like a mech that fell over and started crawling, so its easy to step on, but it still has guns.
Most vehicles can be easy targets, I never thought them worth it since their hit allocation made them so much easier for a crit to just cripple them, whereas mechs would be able to fight on despite horrible damage and still be hopping around on one leg or whatever and ruthlessly firing back. Vehicle damage allocation was their weakness. Only a few stand out... The Demolisher for its hardcore damage output, the LRM carrier because if you play it right it will always be far off from getting attacked, maybe the VonLuckner because it had mass weapons with heavy output and varying ranges and good heat management so even though you know it'll get stomped sooner or later, you know its been pounding out the shots the whole time. Savannahs rock because they are a distraction that is almost impossible to hit (until you get clan on it). That's about all I can think of as worthhwhile vehicles... you take a 35 ton Vedette with its AC/5 and vehicle hit chart, I take a 35 ton Panther, and I'm pretty sure I'll win 10 out of 10 matchups regardless of dice rolls.
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Post by: Orlanth
There are some folks here complaining about 3025 designs. Some are genuinely dire, others only look dire.
Let us start off with the two worst mechs of 3025 the Jagermech and the Charger, or look no armour and look no weapons respectively. The Jagermech does have a role in anti aircraft and then only if accompanying support units. The charger can also hang arouind there, it hasd a HUGE engine, frankly its a walking reactor and that is really what it should be used as. Remover the small lasers and add power cable relays, now you have a mobile power station that walks by itself. Of course the 'use' of the Charger takes it out of Battletech entirely, but it is genuinely useful.
Now for the rogues gallery of mechs derided or laughed at.
Urbanmech. Because its the only speed 2 mech in the game it has a style of its own, the fact is the Urbie' as it is lovingly called has a lot of supporters, and are a top seller. Anyone who wants to do a bit of urban combat need look no further than a jumping light mech doing ten points of damage a hit, but I am talking about the Panther, the Urbanmech is inferior in every way, but its supposedly dirt cheap easy tom mass produce and a neat little beatstick. Due to quirks in the construction rules its little cheaper than the Panther, but for all its faults it can do its job, especially if used in conjunction with infantry support and others of its own kind, or if you deploy an AC/20 variant. Still even the most stalwart Urbie supporter will have to admit, it is not a mech for honour duels, except against another Urbie fanatic in another Urbanmech.
Blackjack. While AC/2's are a joke they have a place from time to time. The Vulcan as an infantry hunter profits from its ecclectic armament and can be foregiven for its loadout, its good at what it does. Its when you pair up the mistakes and have two AC/2's that matters take a serious turn for the worse. 3025 does this twice, once with the Jagermech described above and also with the Blackjack. The Jagermech is a no hoper, but the Blackjack is not. in fact the Blackjack is one of the most misunderstood and underestimated mechs in 3025 and can be relied upon to hurt anyone who fails to show it respect.
The bad news is 14 tons wasted on autocannon, you could have had an AC/10 for that and plenty of ammo. had the Blackjack been armed that way it would have been a firm favourite instead we get popguns. But do not despair.
First of all AC/2s have the longest range of any weapon in the era, artillery excepted this means that outside of the game the Blackjack has a role as long range sniper, sure it wont do much damager to a parked dropship, but you cannot ignore it and its outside the dropships guns. Blackjacks can be used to force an engagement with an enemy huddling under its dropship weapons envelope. Save this one for fan fiction though.
The only battlefield use of the AC/2 is in crit seeking against vehicles, especially light hovercraft. 3025 is the age of annoying units like the Harasser and Pegasus, the Ac/2's range, or more importtly its long short range bracket gives it a chace to get the immobilising hits ready for lancemates to take apart the hovercraft. VTOL's also dont like Blackjacks. A final note on the AC'2's the ammo is ion the centre torso. While this is risky it also means that side torso penetrations dont automatically cook off the ammo supply. You have to be quite unlucky to take an ammo hit with a Blackjack, though when you do you lose the mech completely.
The Blackjack is slow but its a support mech and normally will be the lightest mech in a much heavier lance of mediums and heavies your opponent might laugh and think it only a means of filling the fourth slot in a lance cheaply, but that is not really true. Being a 40 tonner the Blackjack hasnt much armour, but it has enough for some front line duty, anti vehicle role is worth deploying the Blackjack for, the heavier mechs get the more inefficient they are at dealing with zippy little hovercraft, that aside while the opponent is concentrating on laughing at the popguns they are likely ignoring the lasers. Just about every much has medium lasers to round out its firepower, the Blackjack is odd in that it is one of the rarer mechs to really stock up on them it also has enough heat sinks to fire them all most of the time. It can be quite disconcerting to have a heavy lance close on you and find that the odd job mech at the back is in fact able to deal out short ranged pain as well as its comrades 20-30 tons heavier than itself.
People laugh at the Blackjack so much they close with it with 'decent design' mechs that ought to know better. Blackjacks can match licks with solid brawlers and severly embarass a PPC armed mech if it gets under its guns.
Banshee. Sure this is tonnage inefficient, but the armament though weak for its size is not of itself weak. AC/5 and PPC is not unreasonable for a battlemech, you merely have to overlook that its an assault mech. Still as mentioned above the Banshee is a bully in close combat. I have a softspot for this underdog mech, the only change I would make to the standard design is to remeve the autocannon and add jump jets. then the Banshee can do what it does best, rip things apart in close combat, preferably in an urban setting a bit like a 95 ton Panther.
I should note that once you reduce the engine and have the Banshee-S you have what is undoubtably the nastiest mech in the 3025 codex.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
True, But the Urbi and Blackjack are still fun to play
18176
Post by: Guitardian
We always called it the "UrbanWreck" and it is the dopiest mech ever. It's like taking a fat midget with you on a mission. At least they could have given it a LL instead of a stupid overweight autocannon. It doesn't have to conserve heat that much, and that could have made it at least more maneuverable. I agree it is fun to play with subpar mechs (kind of what 3025 era is all about) but anyone who will defend it as a 'good' design is seriously deluded by its 'charm'.
As to the Blackjack, I like its armor, I like its ML array, I like its heat efficiency, but the pair of AC/2 is just dumb. Risk of ammo explosion, risk of having underpowered shots nobody is scared of that weigh far too much. A LL or PPC variant of that would work far better, giving it two range brackets, not worrying about ammo, and keeping the same or more sinks to fire either weapon array 1 or array 2 depending on range.
I am kind of a fan of the 'enforcer' as a badass allrounder. It's not fast but it does jump, unlike the very similar Centurion (50 ton mech with AC10). It has decent heat efficiency, so-so but not bad armor, and 2 big guns both in that perfect 15 hex range bracket.
The Jagermech: good lord... where to begin... any alchoholics out there who like Jagermeister? That explains it. Game designers must have had a fun night designing that pile of gak. "Hey bob! lets design the stupidest mech idea ever!", "cool... you got any Jager? I'll be right over"
The Banshee... actually not as bad as most say. Certainly could be more better good with a smaller engine sluggin it at 3/5/3, but even the basic model had staying power and then some just because of its armor, and its scary getting run up on by a mech who doesn't shoot much, but you can't bring it down easy, and then it starts punching you and it weighs that much. I didn't think of it as a 'fail' mech like stingers, urbanwrecks, jagermechs, chargers, etc... more of a 'not as good as what I'm paying for it, but still useful' mech.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah... as far as blackjacks threatening a dropship??!! It'll run out of ammo long before it worries the people its shooting at.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
You Btech guys wanna play a game? design the perfect 3025 company (i.e. 12 mechs, 3 medium, 3 light, 3 heavy, 3 assault/heavy depending on your taste)
assume 3 lances who all enter at different times in the game, so each lance would have to be self-supporting, or directly involved in one specific function in the game.
No repeat mechs either!
Mine would be:
Command Lance:
Marauder (M-variant... 3 LLs in place of the PPCs and AC/5, plus lots of heat sinks to fill up space)
Awesome
Griffin
Panther
(Nuthin but PPC lovin!)
Attack Lance:
Victor
Grasshopper
Quickdraw
Enforcer
(all fairly tough jumpy heat efficient and close range hell)
Support Lance:
Valkyrie
Firestarter 'Mirage' variant
Griffin
Catapult
(all about range and jumpability, except the Mirage which is all about speed and lasers)
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Actualy it is fun to play with the "Crappy" Mechs, have every one take things like Stingers, Urbies, Blackjacks, MickJaggerMechs, Riflmen, Chargers and Banshees.
It is fun running around fearing the AC/10 of Urbi.
As far as the Jaggers I ran a lance of 3 with a Rifleman in a Company sized game on a open map and I got them on a Hill. I just stood there and waisted AC ammo with concitrated fire and actualy won the game. They did real well in thier role a "Fire Support"
27065
Post by: EmpBobo
Defender, Bushwhacker, Mad Cat.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Guitardian wrote:We always called it the "UrbanWreck" and it is the dopiest mech ever. It's like taking a fat midget with you on a mission. At least they could have given it a LL instead of a stupid overweight autocannon. It doesn't have to conserve heat that much, and that could have made it at least more maneuverable. I agree it is fun to play with subpar mechs (kind of what 3025 era is all about) but anyone who will defend it as a 'good' design is seriously deluded by its 'charm'.
I will completely support the UrbanMech. It does exactly what it was designed to do, on a cheap and efficient platform.
It also isn't designed to work alone. A lance of them coming out of hiding in a city is a great way to run someone's day.
But again, I own 35 of them. I fully embrace the awesomeness that is the Urbie.
1303
Post by: Relic_OMO
Mattlov wrote:
I will completely support the UrbanMech. It does exactly what it was designed to do, on a cheap and efficient platform.
It also isn't designed to work alone. A lance of them coming out of hiding in a city is a great way to run someone's day.
But again, I own 35 of them. I fully embrace the awesomeness that is the Urbie.
Absolutely - once you factor in costs, the UrbanMech is a genius design. Anyone can make a great Mech where cost and tech is no object.
443
Post by: skyth
How much does an Urbie cost compared to other mechs? Combine this with the cost of training and maintaining a mechwarrior...
And, unfortunately, the Urbanmech is only really useful in an area where you should not be fighting if you follow the Ares Conventions. So you have to also factor in damage being done to your own civilian areas when you factor in the 'cost' of them.
21967
Post by: Tyyr
The Ares Conventions have been out the window for centuries. People only pay lip service to them most of the time because that's how wars evolved to limit the damage they do.
The Urbie is dirt cheap and useful as a relocatable bunker in urban ops.
1303
Post by: Relic_OMO
Guitardian wrote:
You Btech guys wanna play a game? design the perfect 3025 company (i.e. 12 mechs, 3 medium, 3 light, 3 heavy, 3 assault/heavy depending on your taste)
assume 3 lances who all enter at different times in the game, so each lance would have to be self-supporting, or directly involved in one specific function in the game.
No repeat mechs either!
Assault Lance:
Atlas
Awesome
Victor
Grasshopper
Support Lance:
Orion
Warhammer-D (removes machine guns and SRMs, adds heat sinks and leg armour)
Griffin
Valkyrie
Recon Lance:
Phoenix Hawk-D (removes machine guns, adds heat sinks)
Firestarter-M (removes flamers, adds armour and lasers)
Vulcan 5T (removes AC, adds 3 med lasers and armour)
Jenner-K (removes SRM, adds armour)
If mass is no object, the Atlas is an unmitigated beast in 3025. It's not the most efficient Mech, not the best 1v1, but as part of a lance it is unholy - a slowly advancing firebase with a 9 hex cookie ring of death that nobody wants to enter. Couple it with a more mobile AC/20 in the Victor and the map is yours.
Fire support groups work best when they have a mix of direct fire weapons to breach armour and missiles to score crits. The Warhammer-D is actually better than even the Awesome for mass efficiency, and both are amazing PPC platforms. The Griffin is the classic medium Mech - an efficient workhorse that belongs in every company.
Again, when mass is no object, the best light Mechs are all 35 tons with lots of armour. Even if this lance is alone against a larger force, it is easy to hide behind terrain and try to isolate enemy Mechs and quickly swarm them, or wait for reinforcements. Light and light-medium Mechs are not extremely useful in 3025 though, not unless you start to factor in lots of cost and mass intangibles. They come into their own at 3050 when better tech starts letting them specialise or carry more armour and still have weapons better than thrown rocks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: skyth wrote:How much does an Urbie cost compared to other mechs? Combine this with the cost of training and maintaining a mechwarrior...
And, unfortunately, the Urbanmech is only really useful in an area where you should not be fighting if you follow the Ares Conventions. So you have to also factor in damage being done to your own civilian areas when you factor in the 'cost' of them.
An UrbanMech costs less than 1.5 million, and is the cheapest Mech around, less than even a Locust. A Griffin, the standard workhorse medium Mech, costs over 3 times what an UrbanMech does. Even SRM carriers, another cheap and powerful design for close quarters fighting, cost more than UrbanMechs.
And cities don't have to be the close terrain in question. Deploy UrbanMechs in any sort of close, heavy terrain, and they do their job just the same. Enough jungle and forest on the map and any Mech without jump jets is almost immobile.
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Post by: skyth
Let's see...Probably not the most efficient company, but what I like
Battlemaster (Throw out the MG's for a pair of heat sinks)
Atlas
Warhammer
Victor
Archer-S
Trebuchet
Tbolt
Valkryie
Wolfhound
Wolverine
Panther
Griffon
9133
Post by: Rangerrob
I'm a big fan of the Davion version of the Blackjack.
Hanse Davion, on the other hand, was so impress by the Blackjack's showing on Xhosha that he has begun experimenting with new versions. One of the Davion engineers' first discoveries was that the Blackjack's instability is a myth. One Davion variant replaces dual autocannon with heavy lasers and also radically increases the number of heat sinks. This necessitates the removal of two medium lasers and some armor.
2 LL, 2 ML, 16HS, 4/6/4, and solid armor for a 45 toner.
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Post by: Orlanth
Anpu42 wrote:True, But the Urbi and Blackjack are still fun to play
Helps if you read the post your are critiquing.
26973
Post by: Quientin
one on one - The Spider!
Because its fun to beat up people who depend on level 2 and 3 tech simply by using cover, speed, and taking advantage of fire arcs. Equally fun is dropping clan mechs with 3025 light and mediums.
In a campaign - A Huntress if im feeling exotic, a Phoenix Hawk if Im feeling like I want to keep the mech I start with.
Visually - The King Crab. It just looks like a total badass.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Spiders 3025 are pretty neat darting around until you get that one 11-12 hit roll despite hopping 8 hexes into heavy trees on a mountain top. All of a sudden you're thinking "hmm 48 armor points just doesn't do it for me"
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If you want that kind of game, an Assassin is a tad more resilient versus the offhand getting hit factor.
21967
Post by: Tyyr
Rangerrob wrote:I'm a big fan of the Davion version of the Blackjack.
Hanse Davion, on the other hand, was so impress by the Blackjack's showing on Xhosha that he has begun experimenting with new versions. One of the Davion engineers' first discoveries was that the Blackjack's instability is a myth. One Davion variant replaces dual autocannon with heavy lasers and also radically increases the number of heat sinks. This necessitates the removal of two medium lasers and some armor.
2 LL, 2 ML, 16HS, 4/6/4, and solid armor for a 45 toner.
Funny thing is that for all the "More Dakka" comments the Davion's get and their supposed obsession with autocannons they're actually the faction that cranks out a surprising number of flash bulbs.
26973
Post by: Quientin
Its only tons of fun when you do it to people who rely way too much on lv2 and 3 tech. not a lot of good players where I come from. The good ones moved to 40k and blood bowl (im still not sure why). If I get beat then Ill come back with a 3050 medium. If I get beat again Ill come back with a Viper. If I get beat again I complement a superior player(or a luckier one).
18176
Post by: Guitardian
I always played on hex maps, and while some guys (myself included) enjoyed painting our favorite mechs, we didn't make much of a big deal about it. FASA never incorporated any kind of WYSIWYG back in the origional box set (they weren't so hung up on constantly updating rules either, just a pick of a few tech levels... that's why FASA went out of business...)
But I digress. The point is, Btech is much more of a math problem to be solved and real number crunching of probability, with no ambiguities involved. This makes it much harder to be 'good' at it. It takes a very mathematical mind to excell at this game, far beyond what they call 'Mathhammer' (which is ambiguous and then some).
Btech players would scoff at so-called mathhammer. That is why people don't play it much any more, or play the dumbed down 'new' battletech instead, which is marketted more like a collectable miniatures game and as such will likely not go bankrupt like its predecessor. Last I saw they would sell Mechs in the same way old Magic Card decks were doled out, with a random mix of some rare stuff, some common stuff. Far better marketing than giving out cardboard counters and hex maps in an all-in-one boxed set.
Lets face it, giant killer robots are just cool and a fun idea in the first place, but the game is less 'shove toys around and roll dice' kind of fun and more 'lets determiine probability curves' kind of fun, just using giant killer robots as the medium for said fun. Now I find playing around with complex probability to be fun. I imagine it is not as appealing to a young crowd who grow up thinking battletech is a video game. That is why our numbers are dwindling.
768
Post by: BAWTRM
Hmmmm, 3025 Company with no repeats. Guess it would be:
Assault/Command/Combat Lance
Awesome
Battlemaster
Hunchback
Grasshopper
A PPC monster, good solid general mech, 'zone of death' mech and my favorite laser skirmisher of the era.
Fire Support Lance
Catapult
Archer
Griffin
Panther
Good LRM output for when making good probability shots. PPC's for added support and for long shots and lots of close range firepower still.
Recon/Skirmish/Pursuit Lance
Cicada
Jenner
Spider
Assassin
I just like speed as a means of defense, going for the rear armour shots etc.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Wow that pursuit lance is wicked fast. You guys already know my opinion of Cicadas though, but I don't think (other than their Locust cousin) there are any more mechs over 6/9 that I can recall. I have noticed that everyone takes an Awesome in their lists. That's cool. Hence the name. Grasshopper seems to be appearing a lot too. I guess we all think alike about these guys.
443
Post by: skyth
*cough* No Awesome in mine.
514
Post by: Orlanth
Ok 3025 multi-role company straight from the original book
Command Lance
Four heavy bruiser mechs, group speed 3/5, emphasis on long range through to short range closing fire with some flanking support from the Hunchback when ranges close.
Banshee -S reduced engine, extra weaponry: 3/5 speed, 21 heat sinks, 2x PPCn 4x M Laser, 2x S Laser, SRM6, AC10
Stalker a favourite dual range mech, exellent long or short range punch with low heat in bracket
Thunderbolt solid armament excellent all rounder
Hunchback AC/20 on legs
Support Lance
Four slow jump capable mechs, group speed 4/6/4. variety of engagement ranges, opposide of the Command klance the heaviest mech is the flanking or point force. This entire lance can act as a hammer to the Command lances anvil because the heavier designs are split between the two.
Victor point fighter, weight, armour, AC/20, jump jets, reasonable speed
Grasshopper good firepower mobility and heat curve
Catapult archtypical fire support mech, can switch to laser infighter too
Panther no frill cheap support mech, makes up the numbers and stays out of the way
Scout Lance
Split into three elements. The Quickdraw and Jenner are counterscout units and an ambushing force. TheVulcan is a rearguard and anti vehicle/infantry mech with ecclectic armament for odd usage. The Locust is a speed machine to get in scout and out. Technically the Vulcan and Locust are paired together. I could replace the Locust with an Assassin but that would be too easy.
Quickdraw heavy for a scout, not to fast but jumpable and a real bully of enemy scouts
Jenner direct support for the Quickdraw, good firepower on a fast chassis
Vulcan infantry swatter and rearguard
Locust fast cheap scout mech
12914
Post by: FoxPhoenix135
Man this is tempting me to break out the old starter set and give it a go.
9777
Post by: A-P
No duplicates? OK. Level 1 Company:
Command: Four PPCs and an LRM20 to keep the opposition honest. One jump capable mech acting as a bodyguard if things get too personal.
Atlas
Awesome
Battlemaster
Grasshopper
Support: Three out of four are jump capable. LRMs + PPCs is the name of the game
Archer
Catapult
Griffin
Vindicator
Recon: Everybody jumps. Long range firepower is limited to a single LLAS, but this is a recon lance after all.
Phoenix Hawk
Jenner
Firestarter
(Fire )Javelin
I tried to avoid the more "esoteric" and rare possibilities. This decision dropped things like Highlanders and Thugs from the selection.
1303
Post by: Relic_OMO
Guitardian wrote:Wow that pursuit lance is wicked fast. You guys already know my opinion of Cicadas though, but I don't think (other than their Locust cousin) there are any more mechs over 6/9 that I can recall. I have noticed that everyone takes an Awesome in their lists. That's cool. Hence the name. Grasshopper seems to be appearing a lot too. I guess we all think alike about these guys.
At 3025 tech there's only so many designs that are worthwhile if you want to make a really strong lance. The ideal tech level, I think, is 3050 IS, because you have more options, and the presence of Endo Steel and FerroFibrous makes light mechs able to do so much more. Once you hit Clan tech it becomes too easy, and every Mech can do everything too well.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
A solid 3025 company? I can do that pretty easily. With a bit of good ol' Kurita flair:
Light Lance:
Jenner
Jenner
Panther
Clint
Strike Lance:
Whitworth
Shadow Hawk-K
Grand Dragon
Phoenix Hawk-K
Assault Lance:
Catapult-K
Archer
Warhammer
Orion
Highly mobile, long range, and very supportive of each other. A great company NOT using the best designs of the time.
443
Post by: skyth
Pssst...No duplicate mechs 
9454
Post by: Mattlov
skyth wrote:Pssst...No duplicate mechs
I'll just use both Jenner variants. 
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Just for fun I was looking up some old pics on Sarna.net and getting nostalgiac... I figured I would put together the Company (3025 style... origional 2H/1M/1L format) lances of the WORST mechs I could think of. Just for fun I tried out a couple of variations but here's what I ended up with:
Banshee (way underarmed for its hugeness)
Jagermech (armor issues and AC2s)
Hermes II (stupid weapons choices, AC/5 on 40 tons?)
Stinger (machineguns on a 20 tonner? I'd rather have a bit more armor and an extra ML
Cyclops (too little armor for its size)
Quickdraw (actually not bad, but it does have heat issues and armor issues)
Cicada (just a big heavy locust)
Ostscout (1 medium laser won't do squat no matter how fast you are)
Charger (yeah... um... duh)
Rifleman (heat and armor and ammo problems)
Vulcan (really stupid for fighting other mechs. flamer and AC/2?? oh dear..)
Urbanmech (urbanwreck)
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Now imagine being put in charge of any one of those lances and having to square against this:
Awesome
Grasshopper
Griffin
Panther
Even if they get all 6/4 pilots and you get all 4/3 what a nightmare. The worst lance ever versus the worst pilots ever challenge. I have half a mind to run that mechwar simulation program to see how it turns out.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Here are two of my Companies in 3025 tech
House Kurita
Command/Fire Lance
-Archer ARC-2S
-Warhammer [PPC x2, MG x7, 22 HS]
-Thunderbolt TDR-5S
-Rifleman RFL-3N
Medium/Recon Lance
-Panther PNT-9R
-Wolverine
-Vulcan VL-2T
-Jenner [ ML x4, LRM-5]
Striker/Recon Lance
-Grand Dragon DRG-1G
-Charger CGR-1A1
-Centurion CN9-AH
-Locust LCT-1M-A [LRM-5 x2, +1 Ton Armor]
I know that there is supposed to be no duplicates, but my alternate Striker Lance is the 3 of the LRM Jenners and the Vulcan
My Pro-Davion Mercenaries
Command Lance
-Alliance ALI-1A
-Recon Battlemaster [PPC x1, ML x6, SRM-6, Heat Sinks x17, Jump Jets x3]
-Goliath [3/5 Move, AC/20, LRM-10 x2, MG x8]
-Catapult [LRM-15 x1, SRM-6 x1, ML x6, SL x2, MG x2]
Heavy Combat Lance
-Marauder MAD-3R
-Warhammer WHM-6R
-Rifleman RFL-3N
-Blackjack BJ-1
Recon Lance
-Phoenix Hawk LAM [PPC x1, ML x2]
-Assassin ASN-101 [Usually armed with Infernos] 
-Commando [ ML x1, SL x10]
-Locust LCT-1S [Usually armed with Infernos]
9454
Post by: Mattlov
No offense, but that heavy combat lance is actually pretty bad. Horrible heat issues, horrible armor issues, and pretty much identical combat ranges.
Swap the Rifleman for a Crusader. Then you get some indirect support. If you are pro-Davion, take the Davion Warhammer. Armor and heat sinks are good. And take pretty much any variant of the Marauder over the 3R. Let us combine a poorly armored torso with a SINGLE crit of ammo. Good plan, 'Mech designers...
18080
Post by: Anpu42
I have won for 2 decades with that combination. Besides I do better with the Rifleman than the Crusader, I even beat a Zues in a one on one duel with the 3N
443
Post by: skyth
By the way, did you ever test that Card initiative system again?
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Ive played with it and it works best when we all know what we are playing in advance.
We have also played using the 40k system and I want to try it with the Battlefield: Evolution System
443
Post by: skyth
Seemed to work well when we tried it, just too bad I had to leave for work before we could finish the game.
17054
Post by: Daquack
The only battletech mini's I still own are a lance of Pheonix Hawk LAM.
Lovely units and great fun. Guess I am dating myself a bit though.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Dating yourself is owning a copy of BattleDroids
21313
Post by: Vulcan
Ahh, yes, Battledroids. Ten mech designs... all of which now are 'unseen.' Just one Autocannon. Not AC/5, just Autocannon. But most of the rules there are still used in the modern version. A remarkably stable game, all said and done.
11852
Post by: dragonfire
Well let's see here is what I'd take for a company.
Command/Fire Lance
BattleMaster BLR-1G
Zeus ZEU-6T
Thunderbolt TDR-5S
Warhammer WHM-6D
Heavy Calvary
Griffin GRG-1S
Shadow Hawk SHD-2H
Wolverine WVR-6K
Trebuchet TBT-5N
Light Calvary
Wolfhound WLF-1
Phoenix Hawk PXH-1D
Jenner JR7-D
Spider SDR-5V
Ah the Wolfie possibly my favorite mech...
443
Post by: skyth
Vulcan wrote:Ahh, yes, Battledroids. Ten mech designs... all of which now are 'unseen.' Just one Autocannon. Not AC/5, just Autocannon. But most of the rules there are still used in the modern version. A remarkably stable game, all said and done.
The original Battletech game only had an Autocannon also.
768
Post by: BAWTRM
dragonfire wrote:
Ah the Wolfie possibly my favorite mech...
Would that be the Wolverine or the Wolfhound? 
443
Post by: skyth
Wolfhound, I'm sure. Great little mech there Definitely one of my favorites.
21967
Post by: Tyyr
The wolfhound is a solid anti-scout mech.
Wolverine is a heck of a mech too.
Battle tech is so stable that mech designs in the original box set are still legal and playable.
768
Post by: BAWTRM
I'd say he was talking about the Wolfhound as well as design wise I find it to be a far better design than the Wolverine IMO (though I find that one solid as well) but hey, some people are wild about Urban Mechs!
18176
Post by: Guitardian
There was a wolverine that switched out the kinda-dumb AC/5 for a LL and some sinks that seriously kicked some butt. I think it was the Marik one, but my book is long gone.
Here's another fun one: make a company out of the origional 14 Mechs from the 1st ed after Battle droids...
Battlemaster
Marauder
Warhammer
Archer
Thunderbolt
Crusader
Rifleman
Shadowhawk
Griffin
Wolverine
Phoenix Hawk
Wasp
Stinger
Locust
Now according to origional rules, each lance consists of 1 light, 1 medium, and 2 heavy, totalling 6 heavy, 3 mid, 3 light. That was considered standard comapny format. These were the most fun games we played back when I was in middle school, but its better to reconfigure the lances as to purpose...
So I got this one:
ASSAULT
Marauder
Battlemaster
Warhammer
Thunderbolt
FIRE
Archer
Crusader
Rifleman
Locust
AUX
Griffin
Wolverine
Wasp
Stinger
I played this off on mechwar simulater (sarna.net) against a star of various sized clan omnimech and it actually won.
7445
Post by: robertsjf
Guitardian wrote:Now according to origional rules, each lance consists of 1 light, 1 medium, and 2 heavy.
I thought it was 1 light, 2 medium and 1 heavy. The medium class mech is the workhorse of the inner sphere. Granted, I've long ago misplaced my original copy....
18861
Post by: Sanctjud
Madcat...it's the like the Ultramarine of that game .
Though, the only things I have of Battletech genre are:
-Cards from the old card game.
-Cliks, for bitz
-The old Battletech Box game with the board, rulebook and paper cut outs that you put on hexbases...not sure how old that thing is, but I still has it .
18080
Post by: Anpu42
BattleDroids
I have to Box Set for every Edition, but the most current.
BattleTroops/ClanTroops
MechWarrior RPG 1st, 2nd & 3rd
BattleForce 1 & 2
Arospace 1 & 2
AND
1
18176
Post by: Guitardian
robertsjf wrote:Guitardian wrote:Now according to origional rules, each lance consists of 1 light, 1 medium, and 2 heavy.
I thought it was 1 light, 2 medium and 1 heavy. The medium class mech is the workhorse of the inner sphere. Granted, I've long ago misplaced my original copy....
Nope. In the origional book it had a section of fluff at the end with rough descriptions of the five major houses, prominent mercenaries, and the origional 3 bandit kings, as well as a sample 'standard' regiment (Yamashita's Regiment) where it boils down the reg=3xBatt=3xComp=4xMechs standard structure, and specifically states that the Lance usually consists of 2 heavy, 1 medium, and 1 light... as it is intended to be independant and self sufficient, much like the early mechs, for mobility/firepower/ranged support/etc.
They actually had a diagram of the standard lance structure in one of the early books that has a Warhammer, Crusader, Griffin, Wasp combo. 'Grey's Lance, Yamashita's Regiment'. This setup kind of makes sense as you have one heavy bruiser, one armored firebase sitting around in back firing LRMS untill needed up close, one flanking pesky medium mech, and one for pursuit/harassment jumpiness and rearshots... So they work as a whole. This was the early succession wars standard lance format as they were expected to be self-contained to accomplish any kind of mission. On the company level, the Captains would often reassign lance members for dedicated rather than self-sufficient roles, that's where you get oddball matchups of mechs like the origional Black Widow, Cranston Snord's, Sorenson's Sabres... all those early books... and the origin of concepts like 'command lance'/'fire lance'/'recon lance' and so on, but they still had a 2/1/1 ratio in the early book. This was also back during the day when assault mechs were considered extreme rarities, and if you were lucky enough to have a Battlemaster (the only true assault mech published at the time) it would stand in for one of the heavies performing the same role.
With the publication of Technical Readout: 3025, suddenly 14 mechs became 55 and with multiple optional variants for most of them, which created a lot more leeway in what mech is used for what purpose, and you start seeing a lot more oddly assigned mechs (the Panther for instance in an assault lance with its PPC and thick armor, the Charger as a recon mech, Hunchback as a stand-in assault mech, Vindicator as a stand in for an all-purpose heavy because Liao was too poor to make actual heavies, and so on).
Prior to the tech:3025 book, there were only the origional 14, plus the extra mechs introduced as 'house mechs' in the origional 'mechwarrior' RPG... these were the Victor, Enforcer, and Valkyrie (Davion)... Jenner, Panther, Dragon (Kurita)... Zeus and Commando (Steiner)... Vidicator (Liao)... and Hermes II (Marik). That was it, not even variants, a total of 24 mechs... most of which were still kind of multi-purpose... and you'd never see a Vindicator in the same lance as a Dragon because of house faction fluff.
When 3025 got published we little middle school kids went wild with all the possible variants and new possibilities, but in the early succession wars you're stuck with the lance format they detailed in the book if you wanted to roleplay it 'right'.
443
Post by: skyth
The Victor wasn't one of the original house mechs. Neither was the Jenner.
9682
Post by: jep'ray
Gimmie the good old Axemen with that right torso mounted AC-20 and meduim laser arms... I took many heads off with that axe in mt day...
18080
Post by: Anpu42
I created a Hatchetman variant that was only gruesome in one pilot’s hands known as Death Stalker.
I took the old 1st ed HCT and ripped out 2 Heat Sinks and upgraded the AC/10 to an AC/20. Death Stalker’s Player stole my concept and the rest of the group has yet to stop cursing for coming up with it. To make it in later editions you remove a HS and the ML on the Right Arm.
After killing a Victor and a Awesome in his 1st game he racked up 15 more [Nothing under 80 Tons] in the next 4 games including 3 in 2 turns.
He found himself in base contact with a Stalker, Cyclops and a Atlas.
Turn 1: He puts the AC/20 in the head of the Stalker and Smacks the Atlas in the side of the head.
Turn 2: He puts the AC/20 in the head of the Cyclops and then finishes off the Atlas.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
jep'ray wrote:Gimmie the good old Axemen with that right torso mounted AC-20 and meduim laser arms... I took many heads off with that axe in mt day...
Except the mediums are in the arm with the hatchet, so you can't fire them AND use the hatchet. What a stupid weapon placement. Heaven forbid they put them in that EMPTY left torso...
29538
Post by: Chuggy G
Mattlov wrote:Except the mediums are in the arm with the hatchet, so you can't fire them AND use the hatchet. What a stupid weapon placement. Heaven forbid they put them in that EMPTY left torso...
Ah-hah. Yuss the Hatchetman and et cetera.
A lot of people seem to be fans of IS 3025 classics. I have to say I prefer Clanner junk. Favorite mech is probably the Blood Asp. It boasts an -impressive- amount of firepower, if a little light on the forward armour. Range should make up for that though.
And, of course, the poster boy. The Timber Wolf. That's what the pilot calls it. Mad Cat is what the poor IS pilot getting nuked refers to it as.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
What I like about ClanTech is how short the games can be with all of the Head Hunting Weapons floating around
Ulta-20
LB-20X
Guass Cannon
ER PPC
443
Post by: skyth
LB-20X isn't a head hunter
Of course, with the amount of firepower being brought to bear with Clan mechs, along with the better pilot skills, the games tend to be shorter anyways
18080
Post by: Anpu42
skyth wrote:LB-20X isn't a head hunter quote]
It is with Slug Rounds
443
Post by: skyth
Slug rounds are a mass hallucination. They don't actually exist...At least for the 20
Really, if you're packing a LB-20X, I can think of very few times when a slug round is superior to a cluster round. This is amplified by the limited amunition supplies that are carried for a 20.
21313
Post by: Vulcan
skyth wrote:Slug rounds are a mass hallucination. They don't actually exist...At least for the 20
Really, if you're packing a LB-20X, I can think of very few times when a slug round is superior to a cluster round. This is amplified by the limited amunition supplies that are carried for a 20.
If I want to sandblast 20 (less, after the 'number of missiles hit' chart gets done with it) points of damage off a mech, I'll use an LRM-20. It's lighter, takes less space, generates less heat, gets more shots per ton of ammo, and has almost double the range.
If I take an AC/20 of any flavor, it is for the massive crushing power of doing 20 points of damage to one location. Sandblasting armor is for the approach battle, it means squat in the finishing knife-fight. Internals (or complete amputation) is where the game is won and lost.
443
Post by: skyth
I disagree. You want the sandblasting done after you've hit with heavy hitters for the crits. LRM's don't really sandblast as they hit in 5 point amounts.
For range/approach, it's better to have the ERPPC's, Gausses, and Large Lasers to punch through the armor exposing the internal structure for the sandblasting weapons (LB's, and SRM's) to cause critical damage.
LRM's do soften up the enemy on the approach, but often don't cause a weak area to exploit. 20 points of damage will probably go internal or not regardless of a couple volleys of LRM's. Having a weak area of your armor is also a psychological weapon because it makes you more cautious with your mech.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if you want to 'crush' someone with an AC, that is what the Ultra/20 is for.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Sandblasts are for the endgame, after the PPCs and AC/20s and such have plowed thtough this or that armor point. LRM 20 is spreading all over the place and getting many possibilities for crits. PPC and AC/20, once the armor is punched through, still only have one possible crit. Once those kind of weapons have done their job of punching a hole in the armor, the LRM/SRM support has far better chance of getting that crit, and we suddenly remember why Archers, Catapults, and Crusaders are cool.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
If I have an LB-X I usaly like to have at least one Ton of Slug.
As far as SRM/MRM/LRM all have thier uses
SRMs [Not including Streaks] are just range 9 Machine Guns, but that extra 4-8 point you get out a SRM-6 can force a Piloting Roll or get a "Double 1 Crit" which can get really ugly if you run the floating Crit.
Infernos are also fun to run out of a SRM. Put Infernos on a Harasser Missile Platform, Wasp, Assassin, Commando or Panther and it will cause it to gather more fire than you think was possible
MRM are just fun, put a pair of MRM-40s on a Atlas [Mine has a C3] with plenty of Ammunition and watch Medium Mechs wither under its fire. Squeeze a pair of MRM-10s oin a Whitworth and you have a nasty Urban Combat Mech. I also like shoving a MRM-40 on a UrbanMech, its both a range increase and you can double it damage output.
LRMs also have their place. On Clan Mechs they are almost brocken, do you know haw easy it is to put 6 LRM-15s on a Heavy Mech and have no Minimum Range.
The LRM-5 even has a place. I put them on Jenners and Panthers. If the game allows them I use DFM ammunition. Think of it this way “A LRM is just a 2 ton AC/3” [1 Ton for Clans] if you can use DFM it becomes a AC/4 or AC/6 [YMMV]
443
Post by: skyth
I still think the slug ammo is a waste on a 20-X.
With the shorter range on them, your longer range weapons should have already opened up holes in the enemy's armor for the cluster rounds to do nasty things to.
1303
Post by: Relic_OMO
Chuggy G wrote:
A lot of people seem to be fans of IS 3025 classics. I have to say I prefer Clanner junk. Favorite mech is probably the Blood Asp. It boasts an -impressive- amount of firepower, if a little light on the forward armour. Range should make up for that though.
I find Clan level stuff too easy. It's far too easy to design a Mech/Lance that can do everything. You don't have to make tradeoffs or take lots into consideration - you just max armour, max movement, stack massive amounts of weapons. And when playing, you don't have to make tradeoffs with range and firepower either - everything's fast enough to make range irrelevant, everything reaches far enough to make range irrelevant, and everything hits hard.
3050 IS is where it's at. There are some perks, some fancy toys to play with that can really make for interesting lances, and the presence of FF and Endo Steel makes light and light-medium Mechs viable. But there are still tradeoffs to be made. I'd be happy also with the inclusion of whatever that next supplement was that introduced toned-down IS versions of more Clan weapons, where IS had small and medium pulse lasers and the like but they still were nowhere near as good as Clan ones.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
skyth wrote:I disagree. You want the sandblasting done after you've hit with heavy hitters for the crits. LRM's don't really sandblast as they hit in 5 point amounts.
For range/approach, it's better to have the ERPPC's, Gausses, and Large Lasers to punch through the armor exposing the internal structure for the sandblasting weapons (LB's, and SRM's) to cause critical damage.
LRM's do soften up the enemy on the approach, but often don't cause a weak area to exploit. 20 points of damage will probably go internal or not regardless of a couple volleys of LRM's. Having a weak area of your armor is also a psychological weapon because it makes you more cautious with your mech.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if you want to 'crush' someone with an AC, that is what the Ultra/20 is for.
Why worry about getting a crit roll or two when you can just rip the offending limb off along with part of the torso as well? I find the slug shot is far more useful, because a 20 point THWACK hitting an armorless location WILL destroy it, where plopping a couple clusters into MIGHT destroy something.
Now, if said target has a crap ton of ammo or an exposed Gauss rifle, them I'll think about clustering.
443
Post by: skyth
Because likely you won't hit the unarmored part with the slug Whereas, you are pretty likely with a cluster round.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Do the math though. Your LRMs Don't do dinky squat to anything with a decent armor (I'm still talking 3025 tech here, but the idea still applies). AC/20 or PPC knocks holes in things. LRM mech sitting in the back follows up by getting the killshot crits because of the spread. LB10X as we get more advanced, is even cooler, as every single point of damage is a potential crit. Still you need your front line full of PPC or LL or AC/10-AC/20 to knock that first hole.
There is a wierd damage curve in Btech. A PPC has just as much chance to crit as a machinegun or single SRM. Howereverer the PPC also has a decisive bang against armor values and structure values, yet it still only gets one crit attempt. I dunno how many games I played through with my warhammer banging away at a legless mech, just hoping for that final crit hit, and wishing I hadn't taken the SRM-less variant.
514
Post by: Orlanth
You can tell this is parmarily a 40K forum from just this thread.
Battltech is all about taking ther rough with the smooth, accepting that some weapons just dont make sense but deploying them anyway.
If your prized ye olde mech is a Jagermech, a Jagermech it is, prepare to face the firepower of my AC/2's!
With 3050 regained tech base and clanas everywhere it becomes harder to forgive bad mechs, but then most of them are fixed. There isnt much wrong with a rebuilt Charger.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Hey man that one-legged jagermech still shuffled around and kept firing in one of our games. I guess in retrospect it was pretty survivable despite the lack of armor just because nobody really bothered to shoot at it much they were all far more worried about the Centurion coming at them. So AC/2 have their place I guess.
514
Post by: Orlanth
I once saw a Jagermech roll two criticals and a regular Ac5 hit from a salvo of four attacks. The victim, a Warhammer which was rather intact up to that point was pretty much wrecked.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
The JagerMech is a solid SUPPORT design. Not all 'Mechs are meant to get in a brawl. The Jager just sits on a hill, minding it's own business, raining AC shells down on a target.
In a perfect world, that target is FAR more worried about someone else than the Jager.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Worst game ever:
first turn of the game, center torso crit, ammo explosion on my Warhammer. Second turn, my Crusader gets it's head blown off by a PPC... He was supposed to be the reliable one to stand and take it and still stand up no matter how battered. I'd never seen such bad luck in a row. Both my heavies out in 2 turns. Ugh... crits... THAT is what the Jager seems to pull off. If it's just meant to sit on a hill and shoot, I would think to drop its speed to 3/5 and use the saved space for some armor or an AC upgrade size.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
All yall Battletech guys really need to check out sarna.net it is the ultimate Btech website... pics of everything... storylines... serious fluff for the nostalgiac
18080
Post by: Anpu42
I do that kind of thing with my Mauler all the time.
In one game I put 2 AC/2 shots into the Ceter Torso of a Axeman with 2 Pair of Snake Eyes, I get 5 Crits total, 3 Gyros and 2 Engines.
Two turns later I put a AC/2 into the head od the 2nd one that had already been hit in the head with a Large Laser and roll Box-Cars.
8186
Post by: Endgame
One of the number one killers when I was playing in College was the Kraken (10x Ultra AC 2s, IIRC). That mech seemed to always wreck something from crits about every other turn. That many shots really ups the odds on rolling snake eyes or box cars, and the range is so long that nothing can really even shoot back.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
yeah but the board is only so big. sooner or later you run out of a corner to back into when anything halfway decently armored that moves at 4/6 is just plowing towards you while you plink a couple points here and there. The probability curve for crits is 1/18, 1 chance for boxcars and 1 chance for snakeeyes out of 36 possible dice outcomes... multiply by chance to hit modified up worse and worse for movement, woods, range often a 'good' shot being 9+ (1/4 approx) means an AC/2 has roughly 1/74 chance of the lucky crit... THEN you divide that by the amount of possible crit rolls that could occur, so really it has a slim chance of pulling it off, like about as likely as rolling up a dungeons and dragon character with straight 18s in all his stats. Theoretically possible but very unlikely (1/356 of a single 18, times 6)
Throw 10 ultra AC2 like the kraken, or the overloaded Mauler, and the chances get slightly better, but ultimately, that weapon sucks for its tonnage, low damage output, ammo necessity, and anyone who says otherwise probably will get eaten by an Ostscout with its one medium laser as they desperately try to get the crucial crit on it. Its just not viable probability.
AC/20 yes, obvious hole-puncher
AC/10 yes, good heat/damage ratio
AC/5 not so good but not terrible. Definitely good as support because of heat management
AC/2 just plain wimpy and too heavy for its damage potential
All of them require an ammo slot that could just outright kill a mech anyways. Why Hans Davion was obsessed with autocannon mechs is a mystery to me. lasers and heat sinks are much safer.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Guitardian wrote:All of them require an ammo slot that could just outright kill a mech anyways. Why Hans Davion was obsessed with autocannon mechs is a mystery to me. lasers and heat sinks are much safer.
Because they are Cheep in 3025 Tech.
From a Game Mechanics point of view I can also see that point, but here is something to think about.
To fire 2 PPCs requires and run requires 22 Heat sinks which is 26 tons total.
For that same tonnage you can get 2x AC/10 with 20 shots and 2 Heat sinks to spare.
Or
3x AC/5 with 40 shots and still have 5 Heat Sinks to Spare.
Your average 3025 Mech has to consider Heat, Lasers Put out a lot of Heat so you have the choice of Running Cool and Lots of Sustained Firepower.
With Auto-Cannons, you have a lot of Sustained Firepower, but only for a limited time.
If you really want to see the difference, Look at the Dragon.
In its base model it has a AC/5 with 40 shots and it takes effort to Overheat.
The Grand Dragon exchanges the AC/5 with a PPC, ML and Heat Sinks, but is easy to overheat.
443
Post by: skyth
One thing you're not taking into account is the 10 free heat sinks every mech has.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
skyth wrote:One thing you're not taking into account is the 10 free heat sinks every mech has.
I did
PPC x2 = 14 tons
Heat Sinks x12 = 12 tons
Total: 26 tons
8186
Post by: Endgame
Anpu42 wrote:skyth wrote:One thing you're not taking into account is the 10 free heat sinks every mech has.
I did
PPC x2 = 14 tons
Heat Sinks x12 = 12 tons
Total: 26 tons
You wouldn't have to have 12 more heatsinks. Surely you could get away with 6 and some low heat weapons.... like autocannons?
18176
Post by: Guitardian
I was just looking up old mech designs and I found the perfect match for 3025 tech: GRF1S...Medium lasers in the sleeves for if you get up close and ugly you still get arm shots off, 55 tons 5/8/5 jump capable. Full coverage armor, and a LL instead of PPC for range, still keeping it good for sitting on cliff tops and bugging people... plus a ML facing out the back for annoying bugs, with leftover tonnage by removing the LRM10 for enough heat sinks to do everything at once. Think Griffin but dump the LRM, PPC and ammo in favor of a switchup, slightly smaller main gun, lots more close range ability, and now it can handle its heat. Now it's still fast (ish), armored, and heat efficient. means no ammo explosion and the LL instead of PPC is really the only significant loss, with the extra sinks means no heat issues either even when it jumps. It almost punches as hard, and has the MLs in the arms for close brawling, heat sinks to do all at once, and can still watch its rear. Possibly (aside from Grasshopper and Awesome) the slickest variant of a mech in 3025, also it's in that perfect 55 ton efficiency range for staying jumpy. I'm surprised I never noticed it before.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Guitardian wrote:I was just looking up old mech designs and I found the perfect match for 3025 tech: GRF1S...Medium lasers in the sleeves for if you get up close and ugly you still get arm shots off, 55 tons 5/8/5 jump capable. Full coverage armor, and a LL instead of PPC for range, still keeping it good for sitting on cliff tops and bugging people... plus a ML facing out the back for annoying bugs, with leftover tonnage by removing the LRM10 for enough heat sinks to do everything at once. Think Griffin but dump the LRM, PPC and ammo in favor of a switchup, slightly smaller main gun, lots more close range ability, and now it can handle its heat. Now it's still fast (ish), armored, and heat efficient. means no ammo explosion and the LL instead of PPC is really the only significant loss, with the extra sinks means no heat issues either even when it jumps. It almost punches as hard, and has the MLs in the arms for close brawling, heat sinks to do all at once, and can still watch its rear. Possibly (aside from Grasshopper and Awesome) the slickest variant of a mech in 3025, also it's in that perfect 55 ton efficiency range for staying jumpy. I'm surprised I never noticed it before.
Primary problem is your Griffin 1S is wrong.
It SHOULD have a Large Laser in the right arm, 2 mediums in the left arm, and an LRM 5 in Left Torso. 86% armor coverage, but does have 16 heat sinks.
The generally accepted "Best 3025 Medium" is the Wolverine 6M. A large, 2 mediums, and an SRM 6. Still jumpy, with close to maximum armor.
I prefer the Vindicator in 3025, but really wish there was a version that mounted an SRM launcher instead of an LRM 5. I DESPISE LRM 5's.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Just replace the LRM-5 with a SRM-4
18176
Post by: Guitardian
I'm sorry. I didn't see the weap placement as its just an 'overview' piece I read. The 3025 tech readout is a little vague in their descriptions of mech variants. I do like the Marik wolverine idea too. Other than appearance it's almost the same mech. I think there were some viable Shadowhawk variants too (because the basic one just kind of sucks), the Kurita one with PPC in place of AC/5 and extra sinks is almost identicle to the Griffin. I just wish they got rid of the LRM/5 and SRM/2 plinky combo for more jumpiness/heat sinks, turning it into a very hard to catch PPC platform hopping all over the place.
I just looked it up and yeah your Wolverine Marik variant is definitely the mech that takes the cake but it still has heat issues if it jumps all the way and fires LL and MLs and SRM at optimum range. Dump the SRM and get more sinks would be my solution for the ultimate mid-weighter, but nobody ever came up with that variant. Hey they are all flawed in some way or another. I like that Shadowhawk only has 3 jump jets making it just jumpy enough to be an annoying brawler, but still keep more weapons/armor load. There are very few mechs who don't have full jump capability, just enough to get by. I think that's cool. Jenner is the only other one I can think of.
It would be fun to play with a mech that has 3/5/1 at 100 tons. Just in case you want to stomp the guy running up on you... plus that single jump can change your facing instead of lurching around while the lights keep hitting you in the back.
28899
Post by: Pvt. Jet
I only played the classic video games personally, never got into the modelling... but can I say the Mad Cat is freaking awesome? 75 Tons of pure death. Other favorites were the Shadow Cat, Masakari (Forget it's clan name) and the Fafnir. Fafnir wasn't amazing... but a pair of Heavy Gauss rifles made you wish you had a few tons of armor plating left over after it hit.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Guitardian wrote:
It would be fun to play with a mech that has 3/5/1 at 100 tons. Just in case you want to stomp the guy running up on you... plus that single jump can change your facing instead of lurching around while the lights keep hitting you in the back.
You need at least a jump of 2 to DFA a 'Mech. A jump of 1 would violate the stacking limits prior to the DFA, since you would not have jumped higher than the target.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
It's not about DFA it's about being able to turn around, and throw 100 ton punches/kicks if he wants to get in your face trying to jump behind you. The KICK is one of the most awesome weapons in the game. Jumping isn't about landing on people's heads, DFA has always been a risky iffy thing no matter how cool your mech is. It's about repositioning why to have a single jump square that lets you turn on a dime and beat the crap out of little gnat mechs who were trying to get you in the back. Watch a Victor or a Grasshopper jump behind and kick the leg off of anything under 50 tons that was trying to hit its back. On a restricted size hex map, just jumping 1 means you can turn completely around so as to punch somethings head off with a scant yet reasonable chance of success, keep your back clear, and get that -1 for jumping during the follow up turn. Btech is a game of stacking +1s and -1s on a very stable 2d6 bell curve, on almost every table. Only a few have 1d6 flat probability (like kicks and punches, crits, or partial cover) take advantage of that and take your jump 1 move to punch that annoying gnat in the head, not to potentially hurt your legs and fall flat on your face. DFA is not a reliable plan, it's a desperation plan.
443
Post by: skyth
Partial cover isn't a 1d6 any more btw
Anywhere a Jump 1 will get you, a run 5 will get you as well (Other than a few rare exceptions). It will also make the gnat easier for you to hit. a +1 to be hit over a 0 isn't that much of a difference. A +3 to hit over a +2 is, especially since any 'gnat' type mech will likely be giving you at least another +3.
514
Post by: Orlanth
Endgame wrote:One of the number one killers when I was playing in College was the Kraken (10x Ultra AC 2s, IIRC). That mech seemed to always wreck something from crits about every other turn. That many shots really ups the odds on rolling snake eyes or box cars, and the range is so long that nothing can really even shoot back.
The Bane is actually a workable design in its role, anti-vehicle. It should immobilise two tanks a turn at long range from track/wheel hits. It can also erode away a light mech. This mech however is an odd design not for its weapon loadout but because its design predetermines the absence of Zellbriggen.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Orlanth wrote:Endgame wrote:One of the number one killers when I was playing in College was the Kraken (10x Ultra AC 2s, IIRC). That mech seemed to always wreck something from crits about every other turn. That many shots really ups the odds on rolling snake eyes or box cars, and the range is so long that nothing can really even shoot back.
The Bane is actually a workable design in its role, anti-vehicle. It should immobilise two tanks a turn at long range from track/wheel hits. It can also erode away a light mech. This mech however is an odd design not for its weapon loadout but because its design predetermines the absence of Zellbriggen.
Zellbrigen does not apply to vehicles.
9777
Post by: A-P
I would like to nominate the Kraken/Bane as the official Dakka mascot Mech . No Mech in existence ( that I can think of ) embodies our beloved site so well. Think about it. If ten (10) UAC/2;s don´t scream DAKKADAKKA! I don´t know what does !
9454
Post by: Mattlov
A-P wrote: I would like to nominate the Kraken/Bane as the official Dakka mascot Mech . No Mech in existence ( that I can think of ) embodies our beloved site so well. Think about it. If ten (10) UAC/2;s don´t scream DAKKADAKKA! I don´t know what does !
About 40 machine guns would do it better.
And you haven't seen anything until you see a Kraken jam 8 out of 10 Ultra-2's in the FIRST ROUND OF A GAME.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
I vote for the 40 machineguns. Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually that would just take forever to finish a turn with... oh yeah... like 40k. Throw in some SRM6s on top and you have the two hour fire phase. That would be a dakka champion.
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Post by: Orlanth
Isnt there an officila protomech design without about 12 machine guns?
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Guitardian wrote:I vote for the 40 machineguns.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually that would just take forever to finish a turn with... oh yeah... like 40k. Throw in some SRM6s on top and you have the two hour fire phase. That would be a dakka champion.
That is why you use a dice box.
Take a plastic tray, like the kind for tackle boxes.
Put 2 dice in each separate compartment.
Shake (which makes a lot of noise).
Have 20-25 2d6 results!
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Post by: Orlanth
Mattlov wrote:Vulcan wrote:You mean the ability to call a hit location and do 40 points of damage to it, don't you?
Which you cannot do anymore with pulse lasers and a targeting computer. Makes designs like that far less useful.
It doesnt matter in Battletech accuracy is everything. I don't mind the damage spread if my weapons hit, after all everything else has a damage spread and LRMs are popular enough.
I hate targeters and pulse lasers they are ok on their own but together they ruin the game. You cannot escape the fire.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
60 Ways to personalize your BattleMech
--
Leather Upholstery
Fuzzy Dice
Ice chest next to heat sinks filled with Old English 800
Radar detector on dashboard
Flame decals on sides
Tinted windows
CD player w/ Dolby Surround-sound.
Picks up dirty satellite channels
Gun Rack
Spoilers
Custom exhaust manifold
Luggage rack over Tactical Targeting Modual
3 year or 30,000 mile service contract
Plays the "Mighty Mouse" theme if you honk the horn
Bored out cylinders increase horsepower by 24%
Hotplate over fusion reactor
Glowing neon blue lights illuminate feet for cruising at night
Really big glove compartment
Game Boy option under Fire-Control system
Clapper hooked up to ejection system
Targeting computer that critiques battle performance
Neon-green windshield wipers
Clint Eastwood samples can be played over loadspeakers "Do you feel lucky punk?". (Intimidation can turn the tide of any battle.)
"Flight of the Valkyries" played when Jump-jets engaged.
"The Four Horsemen" by Metallica played when going full throttle
Friendly message that informs pilot "Radiation seal his been broken. Your children will have 4 arms."
68 inch Bose speakers for the proper bass. (Unfortunataly, Medium Laser only does 3 points of damage if the stereo is on and interior lights dim.)
Celluar phone links directly with closest ComStar Hyperpulse Generator station. 25% discount for calls between 11 and 8.
Cruise control
Zebra skin roof covering
Strobe lights mounted on feet
500 Watt CB with an echo mike and sound effects
Ceiling-mounted licorice dispenser
A direct com-link to Pizza Hut
Red hatch marks on side to give impression that it is a '96 Camaro
Liquor cabinet behind the command couch
King-sized bumper sticker that says "Get any closer and I'll eat you"
Pair of Nikes painted on feet of 'Mech
Hood ornament of a ram head from an old Dodge Ram
Yosamite Sam mud flaps
Special voice added to scanners when picking up enemy units - goes "Danger! Danger!" in Robby the Robot's voice
Trailer hitch to pull around all that extra ordinance
Authentic wood paneling
A little hula dancer on the dashboard
Three Stooges sound effects when you score a kill
Offensive language written on weapons
James Brown security alarm
Dirt Devil Car Vac (modified for 'mech use) stored under command couch
Automatic seatbelts
Internal rollcage (for offroading)
"Have a nice day" with a happy face painted on the back
Disco ball hanging in cockpit
Big screen TV
Cargo compartment for the Harley you wish you owned
Waterbed located underneath command couch
Off-road KC halogen lamps with the little happyface covers
Sunglass shaped window covers (for sunny days)
Rear Window Defogger
Two wo
rds - Air Conditioning
9777
Post by: A-P
Mattlov wrote:A-P wrote: I would like to nominate the Kraken/Bane as the official Dakka mascot Mech . No Mech in existence ( that I can think of ) embodies our beloved site so well. Think about it. If ten (10) UAC/2;s don´t scream DAKKADAKKA! I don´t know what does !
About 40 machine guns would do it better.
And you haven't seen anything until you see a Kraken jam 8 out of 10 Ultra-2's in the FIRST ROUND OF A GAME.
8 out of 10? Really? The Demon Murphy is truly a mighty Herald of the Dark Side!
9454
Post by: Mattlov
A-P wrote:Mattlov wrote:A-P wrote: I would like to nominate the Kraken/Bane as the official Dakka mascot Mech . No Mech in existence ( that I can think of ) embodies our beloved site so well. Think about it. If ten (10) UAC/2;s don´t scream DAKKADAKKA! I don´t know what does !
About 40 machine guns would do it better.
And you haven't seen anything until you see a Kraken jam 8 out of 10 Ultra-2's in the FIRST ROUND OF A GAME.
8 out of 10? Really? The Demon Murphy is truly a mighty Herald of the Dark Side!
I didn't make the roll, but got to witness it. It was hilarious.
18375
Post by: AndrewC
Bit ot, but had to share.
Victor vs Marauder, I had the Victor.
Range:1 I fired AC, Both ML & SRM. All hit. All hit chest. Marauder fires back, cant remember what hit, but caused >20pts. I fall over. For the next three rounds, all fire, including kicks from the MAD, from both mechs completely miss, I fail all 6 attempts to stand up, finally causing an internal crit to myself detonating my remaining ammo.
Andrew
21313
Post by: Vulcan
That sorta reminds me of how I learned not to put ammo in the CT of mechs...
Warhammer vs. something with LRM-5, I don't remember what. He fires, hits for minimum damage (only two missiles hit)... CT possible crit, crit confirmed, hits MG ammo... BOOOOM!
Shortest game of BT I've ever played, it took longer to fill out the sheets!
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Way back in early 1st edition a sucssessful CT just destroid the Mech.
I can not count the number Mechs killed by that icidental just becose it there Small Laser Shot.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Perhaps we were playing it wrong, but the damage allocation from any ammo crit without CASE pretty much destroyed you (Why I hate the Dervish with its stupid arm ammo). Mech designs ideally always put heat sinks in legs, heads, CT, 1 slot weapons in CT or head, ammo in side torso etc just to play the probability curve of 1/36 chance of headshot 1/36 chance of CT crit. If you have just one extra 1/6 chance that crit will get a heat sink instead of blowing off a head, or whacking the gyro, its still better than nothing. However, those mechs are all far from ideal. That's why they're fun!
Worst shortest game ever: 6 players, lance vs lance, old school style, but 2 players each had 2 mechs each so we could get the whole lance thing (1 heavy each for 4 of us, and 1 L/1 medium for the other two). I had my Crusader-D (the one with downgraded SRMs and no MGs so it could fire every turn).
True to form in its fire support role, my first turn I parked it in heavy woods on a level 3 hill by running on my first turn. WAAAy in the back of the map.
I had usually done quite well with Crusaders. They were tough, and had a great range bracket, and were big enough to brawl, and often ended up being the last surviving mech in the lance. "Ol'Reliable'"
"Bring it on" I'm thinking, with the choicest vantage point on the board and LRM15s waiting for the target to start spraying at and no heat issues at all.
Kurita guys hopped a Griffin onto a hill exactly medium range away on their turn, PPC shot rolls a 12 to hit (medium range AND jumping, plus my movement and cover was the only hit possible)
hit location: head. PPC means all armor gone, rolls his crit and it's 'head blown off'... first shot of the game first turn of the game. So much for the durable Crusader I guess.
My teammate who was running the medium and light mechs let me take over his backup Stinger since he had 2 mechs just so we could finish the game, but we lost horribly without Ol'Reliable up there in his usual post on the cliff raining missiles from good cover. I spent the rest of the game hopping around taking the occasional potshot while being chased by the same griffin that killed my Crusader, just trying to avoid being hit. I don't remember how many turns in we were but the stinger got its head blown off too by another lucky hit from that same PPC. I just gave up, cursing that guy with all his boxcars as I stormed out for a cigarette. TWO HEADS BLOWN OFF ON BOXCARS!!?? damn I was mad.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Once [also back in early 1st] we had been playing for an hour when some one showed up late.
He came with his new 100 ton Custom Quad called the Mammoth.
It waddles on to the board his 5 hexes
An Vulcan form 22 hexes away pops him with his AC/2 and pulls off the Instant Kill CT shot.
Of coarse this is the guy with Jenner with the Golden Leg.
This one Jenner no mater what during the game would catch an AC/20 in the Right Leg.
443
Post by: skyth
I didn't think they had rules for Quads that early...
18080
Post by: Anpu42
The Quad Rules were the same as Bi-Peds when the original Goliath and Scorpion came out
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Guitardian wrote:Perhaps we were playing it wrong, but the damage allocation from any ammo crit without CASE pretty much destroyed you (Why I hate the Dervish with its stupid arm ammo). Mech designs ideally always put heat sinks in legs, heads, CT, 1 slot weapons in CT or head, ammo in side torso etc just to play the probability curve of 1/36 chance of headshot 1/36 chance of CT crit. If you have just one extra 1/6 chance that crit will get a heat sink instead of blowing off a head, or whacking the gyro, its still better than nothing. However, those mechs are all far from ideal. That's why they're fun!
Nope, you were probably playing right. Ammo explosions are generally always fatal without CASE. Unless the game has been going on a long time and you are almost out of ammo.
TWO HEADS BLOWN OFF ON BOXCARS!!?? damn I was mad.
I had this happen to me last year at the Trial of Bloodright tournament at GenCon. I have a Nova Cat Prime, a deadly beast, against a Summoner-C. We trade a little long range fire, and then he closes to bring the Ultra-20 to bear.
His first hit goes to my head. Each pilot had a point of "Edge," so I had him reroll the location. Head again.
That Nova Cat WANTED it's pilot to die. In the first round of the tournament I took an AC/10 to the head, and had to Edge another fatal shot that game, too. I managed to kill my opponent with a breezy cockpit, though, that round.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Does anyone know an abandonedwarez site that has the origional dos game 'mechwarrior', 1989ish version. I have a file of it, but it blacks out as soon as you finish a mission. I don't know if its just a bad file or if it's a dosbox quirk.
In other thoughts (god I love this game I could go on for hours about oldtech) Jenners than remove the SRM4 and ammo can actually jump, fire, and have a ton more armor on the legs. I never liked the Jenner until I got random assignment of that variant and all of a sudden its hoppity hoppity shooty shooty and it kicked some butt. Kurita had that 35 ton chassis owned with Jenner and Panther (which also has a variant that gets rid of the SRMs becoming far more efficient)
I think most variants of oldtech mechs that remove machineguns or SRMs in favor of heat management or extra armor are the best ones in the era. MGs are just inefficient for mech-to-mech and risk ammo, SRMs risk ammo and you could do the same or better with the same heat build just sticking a ML in there, and avoid ammo risk.
But yeah, anyone with a linky to the old super old mechwarrior I would love it.
21313
Post by: Vulcan
Anpu42 wrote:Once [also back in early 1st] we had been playing for an hour when some one showed up late.
He came with his new 100 ton Custom Quad called the Mammoth.
It waddles on to the board his 5 hexes
An Vulcan form 22 hexes away pops him with his AC/2 and pulls off the Instant Kill CT shot.
Well, what do you know? A genuine use for the Vulcan. Who knew?
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Vulcans can be very useful, in its designed roll.
Anti-Infantry and Long Range Fire Suport.
Put it with a Recon Lance with 3 other Mechs the same Speed or Faster [Vulcan and 3 Loucust] and stand off at 14-20 hexes and pop od the AC/2 every turn.
If somthing starts to get close before you are ready torch some trees and hide.
When it get with in 4 heaxes of you, jumb behied it ad feed it everything, Including the AC/2, give it a swift kick and jump away.
This works works for the Assassin loaded up with Infernos.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Yeah two points a round makes it REALLY viable as long range fire support dunnit? Face it the mech sucks. No amount of theorizing infantry scenarios escapes the fact that is jsut sucks and any other mech would beat the gak out of it.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Guitardian wrote:Yeah two points a round makes it REALLY viable as long range fire support dunnit? Face it the mech sucks. No amount of theorizing infantry scenarios escapes the fact that is jsut sucks and any other mech would beat the gak out of it.
I guess I am the oddball that wins with it.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
HOW on earth can you do that? Okay its armored a bit but a flamer and MG as primary weapons emphasized, plus the 'plink' cannon and a ML is hardly a loadout for 40 tons. You must get really lucky with that thing. Other than it looks really cool and I have an old RalPartha fig of it, I would never have tried it out in the first place. We played group games... "what did you do on your turn jaime? um... I shot that guy for 2 points and set some woods on fire"... next turn, half hour later... same... I just don't understand how that thing can take out any other mech other than the superlucky crit shot. Maybe a variant I guess (like dump the AC/2?) but I just can't see it happening without some really really good rolls.
18375
Post by: AndrewC
Guitardian wrote:Does anyone know an abandonedwarez site that has the origional dos game 'mechwarrior', 1989ish version. I have a file of it, but it blacks out as soon as you finish a mission. I don't know if its just a bad file or if it's a dosbox quirk.
But yeah, anyone with a linky to the old super old mechwarrior I would love it.
Is that the one which ends with the fight against the battlemasters?
Andrew
18176
Post by: Guitardian
yes sir it is. For some reason, every version I have tried to download of it ends up cutting off at the end-of-battle sequence. I know it's freeware nowadays, but isn't there one out there that doesn't do this??? or maybe its just dosbox being flukey, I dunno.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Guitardian wrote:HOW on earth can you do that? Okay its armored a bit but a flamer and MG as primary weapons emphasized, plus the 'plink' cannon and a ML is hardly a loadout for 40 tons. You must get really lucky with that thing. Other than it looks really cool and I have an old RalPartha fig of it, I would never have tried it out in the first place. We played group games... "what did you do on your turn jaime? um... I shot that guy for 2 points and set some woods on fire"... next turn, half hour later... same... I just don't understand how that thing can take out any other mech other than the superlucky crit shot. Maybe a variant I guess (like dump the AC/2?) but I just can't see it happening without some really really good rolls.
It does not win the game, the Lance does.
One of the ways I also use it is teamed up with a Phenix Hawk, Marader and Warhammer.
Most will ignore the Vulcan while I flank with it and "Plink" at rhe Rear Armor along with the PHX.
21313
Post by: Vulcan
Anpu42 wrote:Guitardian wrote:HOW on earth can you do that? Okay its armored a bit but a flamer and MG as primary weapons emphasized, plus the 'plink' cannon and a ML is hardly a loadout for 40 tons. You must get really lucky with that thing. Other than it looks really cool and I have an old RalPartha fig of it, I would never have tried it out in the first place. We played group games... "what did you do on your turn jaime? um... I shot that guy for 2 points and set some woods on fire"... next turn, half hour later... same... I just don't understand how that thing can take out any other mech other than the superlucky crit shot. Maybe a variant I guess (like dump the AC/2?) but I just can't see it happening without some really really good rolls.
It does not win the game, the Lance does.
One of the ways I also use it is teamed up with a Phenix Hawk, Marader and Warhammer.
Most will ignore the Vulcan while I flank with it and "Plink" at rhe Rear Armor along with the PHX.
Is there a reason (aside from fluff) why one would use a Vulcan to team up with the PXH rather than, say, a Wolfhound?
18080
Post by: Anpu42
At the time I developed my tactics there was no Wolf Hound, it also does not have a 6/9/6 move with no heat
18375
Post by: AndrewC
Guitardian wrote:yes sir it is. For some reason, every version I have tried to download of it ends up cutting off at the end-of-battle sequence. I know it's freeware nowadays, but isn't there one out there that doesn't do this??? or maybe its just dosbox being flukey, I dunno.
I may have a slightly less that legal version of it.......I'll check.
Andrew
8186
Post by: Endgame
Best plan on those old DOS games is to just throw win98 on an old pentium 133 or something. Best $20 I ever spent was picking up a pentium 166 w/ 32MB ram and a 20GB HDD. I run a bunch of the old classics on it with much less hassle than any of the emulators I've ever used.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
I found the sheet of an old favorite of mine. I used to load her up with Infernos and have Happy Pyro Days 
Type/Model: Blackjack BJ-1R [Rusty]
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3025
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 1, Standard design
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Blackjack BJ-1R [Rusty]
Mass: 45 tons
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Single
Weapons [ Loc]
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Autocannon/2 [RA]
1 Autocannon/2 [LA] (Ammo Locations: 1 CT)
1 SRM 2 [RA]
1 SRM 2 [LA] (Ammo Locations: 1 CT)
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Honestly? That's awful. If you can devote that much tonnage to weaponry, and make a standard Shadow Hawk look mean, you haven't made a good design.
What is it supposed to do? Mildly annoy opponents? Why the speed increase? The jump jets did far more for mobility than the ground speed increase would.
Sorry, but that's horrible.
8186
Post by: Endgame
When making custom designs, isn't the most efficient just slapping as many medium lasers & heatsinks as possible on it (see Clan Black Hawk). If you're feeling the need for a little more range mix in a PPC or two?
IMO, thats why the classic designs are fun. Much more varied and interesting than just slapping together the most "efficient" max armor designs.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Oh, I agree with that. Medium laser boats are boring, and the only ones I ever use are the stock ones that exist, like the Nova and the Komodo. But those aren't great designs by any means.
1686
Post by: shakespear
I have always been a fan of the LAMs..
18080
Post by: Anpu42
If the Black Jack Fluff it orginaly had no jumo jets [or is that the Clint I am thinking of?]
At Level-1 the Inernos were murder, after the first game no one would get close to me so tha AC/2s just plinked away.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
No both the blackjack and the clint were jumpers in 3025 readout.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blackjack_(BattleMech)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clint
You may be thinking of the Hermes II, which was 6/9/0 and also AC equipped despite its size, and extremely poor performer.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
BJ-1 Blackjack Fluff
The production model differed from early prototypes in replacing the twin, arm-mounted GM Flashpoint flamers with heavier but more reliable Class 2 Whirlwind-L autocannon. This also required replacing the original Vox 225 power plant with the lighter GM 180, which reduced the Blackjack's speed and endurance. Whitworth jump jets were added to increase the 'Mech's mobility.
This is were I got the 5/8/0 movement.
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
hmm difficult OP
easy answer - anything with Natasha Kerensky in it
for looks loved the orginial Awesome, Warhammer, Marauder, Locust, Archer,
If ti hd to be one - it would be the Marauder
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Rhonda Snord was way hotter than Natasha Kerensky
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
Guitardian wrote:Rhonda Snord was way hotter than Natasha Kerensky
well we were blessed with soooo many lovely 'Mech pilots - Lori Kalmar anyone..........plus half of Camacho's Caballeros and whilst not a pilot (far more dangerous) - there is always Cassie Suthorn of the same unit and Eleanor Shimazu of course
you have Rhonda - I'll have Natasha, Lori and Cassie .................
18176
Post by: Guitardian
The problem with Rhonda is that she piloted a Shadowhawk origionaly, While Natasha had a Warhammer. Not a fair matchup really... Couple you forgot to mention are that Ostroc pilot from Wilson's Hussars with all the little hearts painted on it. Then, there is Yvonne Morticia and her Orion, also a jumpship pilot (brains too!), from team banzai, and dressed like Elvira... I think she wins on all counts. Brains, looks, style, and a tough mech.
5880
Post by: sqir666
I love the timex from the 3025 TRO, the often over looked Panther.
Man, that thing just soaks up damage like a sponge and keeps performing great. Which is really weird, since it's a light.
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
Guitardian wrote:The problem with Rhonda is that she piloted a Shadowhawk origionaly, While Natasha had a Warhammer. Not a fair matchup really... Couple you forgot to mention are that Ostroc pilot from Wilson's Hussars with all the little hearts painted on it. Then, there is Yvonne Morticia and her Orion, also a jumpship pilot (brains too!), from team banzai, and dressed like Elvira... I think she wins on all counts. Brains, looks, style, and a tough mech.
ShadowHawk was cool design as well - didn't a certain founder of the Grey Death Legion beat a Marauder and another 'Mech
Ostroc Pilot -Lt Paula Stilson, ex Cruis Lancers
some of the other "babes"
Sharon Burgoz - Sorenson's Sabres
Melissa Steiner
Candace Liao
the list as we know was very very long
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Mr Morden wrote:Guitardian wrote:The problem with Rhonda is that she piloted a Shadowhawk origionaly, While Natasha had a Warhammer. Not a fair matchup really... Couple you forgot to mention are that Ostroc pilot from Wilson's Hussars with all the little hearts painted on it. Then, there is Yvonne Morticia and her Orion, also a jumpship pilot (brains too!), from team banzai, and dressed like Elvira... I think she wins on all counts. Brains, looks, style, and a tough mech.
ShadowHawk was cool design as well - didn't a certain founder of the Grey Death Legion beat a Marauder and another 'Mech
But that is fluff wise. We all know a standard 3025 Shadow Hawk can't beat ANYTHING in the game.
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
rule of cool I guess
They were cool looking though and I forgot the Panther - great 'Mech
18176
Post by: Guitardian
The triplets: Griffin, Wolverine, Shadowhawk... All same armor, same engine... why did the Shadowhawk suck so bad comparatively? Griffins were awesome cliff hopping snipers, wolverines could bring it on up close, shadowhawk cant jump as far, and has a totally schizophrenic weapons array.
We used to get random mech assignments playing team games (draw a card kind of thing) and getting stuck with the Shadowhawk meant plinking all game, but having decent enough armor to run out all your ammo and still not be dead yet because nobody bothered to shoot at you, so I guess they have that kind of 'ignore me' advantage.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
It is also Impossible to overheat
9454
Post by: Mattlov
The Shadow Hawk would have been the king of 3025 if it had swapped the AC/5 for a large laser. It could maximize the jump capability and increase the size of a missile launcher, either one would be fine.
Then it would have been the best medium in 3025.
Sure you could have put a PPC in place of the AC as well, but then it might have been too similar to the Griffin.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
The only official variant I could find for 3025 that may have worked was the SHD-2K Kurita model which drops the AC/5 for a PPC and drops the SRM2 for more heat sinks to deal with the PPC. It's not bad, but I agree it is too similar to the griffin. A Large Laser would be far cooler. Now you are jumping and blasting and still never overheating turn after turn, with that solid 55 tonner armor maxed out all at the same time.
8186
Post by: Endgame
If you're looking at the three mediums (Griffen, Wolverine, Shadow Hawk) you see that the Shadow Hawk is trying to fulfill both a long and short range role, while the Griffen is specifically long range and the Wolverine is primarily short range.
A better load out would have been something like Large Laser, LRM 10, and 2 or 3 Medium Lasers, but I'm pretty sure that would require an armor or mobility sacrifice, and to be honest its really not terribly different than a Phenix Hawk with a LRM.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
Yeah the Phoenix Hawk was a decent mech except for weapon placement. I cannot count the number of armless phoenix hawks I have had running around incapable of doing anything. If they had just put one gun somewhere in the torso it would have been awesome, but no, it always ends up with its arms blown off trying to do a charge or a DFA. Really bad heat issues on that guy too. You can't jump and unload without regretting it the next turn.
Okay... side topic... I am doing a music project called the Battle Robots of Death, that does death-techno covers of horrible 80s tunes with robot voices silly robot masks and horrible metal guitar (I know, I'm wierd). I was thinking of using battletech art for the flyers... so... if you had a lance of mechs in a band... what would they look like?
My first thoughts were:
hatchetman (guitar, obviously)
warhammer (drums... them some big drum sticks for arms)
firestarter (vocals, just for the name)
thunderbolt (bass, also for the name, but imagine that arm cannon as a bass guitar and the whole torso as a big speaker!)
I'm not so sure on putting the firestarter on vocals though, as it isn't really a very sexy looking mech. Maybe a Wasp or a Valkyrie could pull off the frontman role better... or Banshee (also for the name, but that breaks standard lance structure cause there's no light mech). Which light mech would make the best lead singer in a battle robot band?
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Go for the Panther for the "Singer."
18176
Post by: Guitardian
yeah panthers are pretty sexy. I gotta go redesign a cardboard helmet... will post pics when its all done. good idea.
8186
Post by: Endgame
Back to the shadow hawk idea, just playing around with the 3025 version, you could drop 2 large lasers and 2 SRM 4s on it for the same weight as the existing weapons (I think, its been years since I looked at BTech really). You'd have a big heat problem if you wanted to jump and fire both LLs but you would have some redundancy from damage as well.
Alternatively, LL, LRM 15, SRM 4 would work at the cost of a ton of armor, but again its mostly a Griffen then.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
drop the srm2 and ammo, switch the AC/5 for a LL, add 2 more jets, another ton of armor, 2 SLs in place of the SRM2 and 3 sinks now you have a sicko shadowhawk.
But nobody ever made that design as a Canonical mech. When it comes down to it, all the 55 ton twins are the same mech just with different combinations of weapons. 55 tons with 152 points of armor and a walk speed of 5, they're all the same. Same with the wasp and stinger, it's just a question of if you want an SRM launcher or a pair of machineguns, otherwise its exactly the same mech, right down to armor alocation.
443
Post by: skyth
The armor placement is a little different. If memory serves, the Wolverine is one of the few mechs without 9 armor on the head (It only has 8)
10254
Post by: Golden Eyed Scout
My personaly fav to look at was the Shadow hawk.
21002
Post by: megatrons2nd
I've always been partial to the Phoenix Hawk. I have been told that I am meant to be an Atlas pilot though.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
I finally got to see the 'Mech the classic 55 ton trio always wanted to be in 3025: The Gladiator 4D.
PPC, 2 mediums, SRM 6. 5/8/5 movement. Excellent armor, and enough heat sinks to use the PPC and run, or the short range stuff. Very solid design.
Only complaint is the SRM6 in the Right Arm has the ammo in the left torso. Not so smart.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
ammo in general is not so smart. at least it doesnt have it in the CT just begging for that crit. where would you put it? side torso is generally the best option IMO
5503
Post by: SPARKEYG
For my two cents, the Highlander was my fav mech. 90 tons, a guass, and jump jets? Thank you very much.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Guitardian wrote:ammo in general is not so smart. at least it doesnt have it in the CT just begging for that crit. where would you put it? side torso is generally the best option IMO
I would put it in the right torso. In the current design, if you lose the left torso, you lose the AMMO for the SRM launcher, but not the launcher itself. The right torso also had an extra heat sink I think, so it had a little bit more crit protection from being hit.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
If your ammo gets hit it's pretty generally assumed that your mech gets blown to bits unless you have CASE, in which case you just lost a side of your mech but at least you aren't dead. CT risks crit hits, arms are usually weakly armor, legs have their own issues with actuators etc, the only safe place to stash ammo is in side torso.
443
Post by: skyth
I actually survived an ammo crit on an ARC-2S Archer last time I played...I fired the last round of ammo in that bay the same turn it was critted...Net result no extra damage.
Granted, I lost the Archer to another ammo crit the next round...
18080
Post by: Anpu42
SPARKEYG wrote:For my two cents, the Highlander was my fav mech. 90 tons, a guass, and jump jets? Thank you very much.
It got a Gauss Weapon on it, and jump That is like saying Death Company Dreanught he is good, its a no brainer.
514
Post by: Orlanth
Mattlov wrote:The Shadow Hawk would have been the king of 3025 if it had swapped the AC/5 for a large laser. It could maximize the jump capability and increase the size of a missile launcher, either one would be fine.
Then it would have been the best medium in 3025.
Sure you could have put a PPC in place of the AC as well, but then it might have been too similar to the Griffin.
If you advocating swapping out autocannon for lasers you are missing the point of 3025.
Mattlov you have been spoiled. Take a quite reasonable pirate lance with a Shadowhawk a Jagermech, a Charger and a Firestarter. Play a scenario, none of that BV nonsence, learn to make do and learn that in proper Battletech retreat is not defeat, defeat is leaving salvage behind.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Orlanth wrote:Mattlov wrote:The Shadow Hawk would have been the king of 3025 if it had swapped the AC/5 for a large laser. It could maximize the jump capability and increase the size of a missile launcher, either one would be fine.
Then it would have been the best medium in 3025.
Sure you could have put a PPC in place of the AC as well, but then it might have been too similar to the Griffin.
If you advocating swapping out autocannon for lasers you are missing the point of 3025.
Mattlov you have been spoiled. Take a quite reasonable pirate lance with a Shadowhawk a Jagermech, a Charger and a Firestarter. Play a scenario, none of that BV nonsence, learn to make do and learn that in proper Battletech retreat is not defeat, defeat is leaving salvage behind.
You sir, are astoundingly wrong. I understand the WHY of the autocannon, and the fluff and such behind it. This does NOT make it a good choice. If you want to go that route though, I can make that mod as well. Drop the LRM 5 completely to upgrade the AC/5 to an AC/10. At least you can threaten most designs then.
I LOVE 3025 combat, it is the best way to play Battletech. As for your lance, it would be fun. And not the worst I could come up with.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
I can't think of much worse than Orlanth's lance except maybe the firestarer is a little overpowered for its teammates and the shadowhawk is comparatively tough. switch them up for a basic stinger and basic vulcan then you have a winner atbeing a loser!
Filbert Humperdink's Last Chancers: (They work for Liao, obviously)
Charger (5/4... he's the 'good' pilot so he gets to be Lieutennant)
Jagermech (6/4)
Vulcan (6/4)
Stinger (6/4)
443
Post by: skyth
If you want a decent Shadow Hawk...Check out the Royal version of it
514
Post by: Orlanth
Mattlov wrote:
You sir, are astoundingly wrong. I understand the WHY of the autocannon, and the fluff and such behind it.
Do you understand?
Mattlov wrote:
This does NOT make it a good choice. If you want to go that route though, I can make that mod as well. Drop the LRM 5 completely to upgrade the AC/5 to an AC/10. At least you can threaten most designs then.
Evidently you dont. The AC5 is a wonder of technology a 'medium' weight autocannon with excellent range and a 'powerful' punch enabling to keep up in the modern laser age. To think that your mech can fire this cannon on the run with the gyro automatically adjusting for recoil via the neurohelmet, its a pity that we dont really understand how this is done anymore.
Hold on did you mention dropping the LRM launcher on your family mech, have you any idea how tough it is to recalbrate new weaponry for a mech chassis, most custom jobs involve removing a laser and adding more armour or something like that. Here you want to completely redesign a mech removing a two ton missile module and its ammo bin in order to add a heavy autocannon. Will the software be able to cope, remember our software is black box its not designed for 'tweaks' like this. We could run tests but you would have to bring the mech to the factory and proably replace a lot of the daughtbaords in the cockpit. Has there ever been a refit kit for this kind of stuff. I know the Davions like to play with heavy autocannon and produce kits, but did they do so for the Shadowhawk, and its major house stuff anyway. way beyond anything a company or garriosn tech team can slip together.
Besides why removing the LRM and replace the autocannon with a heavier calibre anyway, thw ashadow Hawk is a very goosd blend of speed and utility, the pair of long range weapons gives it a good threat band. This is likely why your family has been able to keep them mech, and others like it such as ther Griffin. Were your ancestors Enforcer jocks you may well have been born to dispossessed parents.
These are not omnis. They dont even have the benefit of recovered technology, any change is a major undertaking and all mechs are precious, some are merely more precious than others. You are a mechwarrior, you are the elite, your ride is a Shadow Hawk, fifty five tons of death to any who oppose you. Your only equal is another mechwarrior.
Think 3025.
Mattlov wrote:
I LOVE 3025 combat, it is the best way to play Battletech. As for your lance, it would be fun. And not the worst I could come up with.
Guitardian wrote:I can't think of much worse than Orlanth's lance except maybe the firestarer is a little overpowered for its teammates and the shadowhawk is comparatively tough. switch them up for a basic stinger and basic vulcan then you have a winner atbeing a loser!
Thats the idea, but I didnt want to overdo the AC2's. Also the Firestarter is heavier and more expensive than a Stinger but not much better.
Anyway yes we can make worse but the pont was that respresents a pirate lance, and not an unreasonable one at that. Periphery forces deply what they have got and if that means wunderwaffe like the 'mighty' 3025 era Charger then a Charger is what you have.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
The basic Shadow Hawks in the Basic 3025 game with little or modifications. As a sort-medium range [5-9 hexes] fire support mech it can do the job.
With its tons Ammo and low heat, you can skip around the battlefield looking for soffend up armor.
One of the real medificatio we used to do was rip out the LRM-5 for 3 more SRM-2 and loading it up with Infernos.
or
Rip out the SRM-2 for a second LRM-5.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
We used to just randomly draw who got what mech and just deal with it. For some reason (like low damage output?) I usually was happy to have the Shadowhawk because when there's 3 other more dangerous mechs on the board, like back-shotting jumpy lights or gun-heavy heavies and assaults... I was never a priority target. Actually its one of the only mechs I completely ran out of ammo (yes even the SRMs) and was still running around kicking at stuff and zapping away with the laser as the last mech in my lance, while the others all got gang raped one by one, all got gunned down. I left the battlefield after I realized that the other team's Locust had more firepower than me at that point (another low-priority survivor mech), but not after unloading every round of ammo I had and taking my plinky toll on them. So I guess its not such a bad thing to be a shadowhawk pilot. I wanted a Dragon for similar reasons but my friend always drew that one (I think he rigged the deck) and he had the same experience of people just not going after him much because ooohhh scary AC/5 and 10 LRMs just doesn't worry many heavy mechs... plus it can run around a lot and people just focus fire on the huge slow hard hitter heavy armored beast, that's a surer hit roll, or the back-threatening light that can go down to a couple of good shots.
I think a hunchback would be a death sentence because everybody wants to bring it down as fast as possible, or a warhammer, awesome, panther, or other such high damage output mechs just begging to be mobbed. So drawing the Shadowhawk in multiplayer games is kind of a blessing because nobody really cares so much what you're doing but you do get those lucky hits from time to time and crit something or knock a head off and everyone including yourself is awestruck. Still, ammo runs out and you end up with just the ML and some decent armor and half-assed jets... time to go... live to fight another day
So if you could have 1 mech, 3025 canon, what would you want? The obvious first choice everyone wants an Awesome... but... when you play an 8 player game with 1 mech each, and psychology becomes a factor and you are looking out for just your own mech, what would you really prefer? The huge fire magnet that blows gak up like nobody's business (warhammer, awesome, hunchback), the dangerous backshooting mech (spider, wasp, locust, clint, cicada, grasshopper, quickdraw, etc... bugs), the fire support guy who just sits in a bush all game until it gets mobbed (archer, crusader, catapult, etc)... or the guy that nobody pays attention to because it's 1: hard to hit and 2: not very threatening? (shadowhawk, wolverine, dragon, etc)... or the obvious hard hitter with gak for armor (rifleman, zeus, victor, cyclops etc)... and the final category, the 'all-arounder' kind of thing like a battlemaster or thunderbolt or orion or which is halfway decent at everything but not really good at anything either...
If I had my choice of 3025 mech and wanted to survive as a mechwarrior whether or not my lance survived or not... total self interest... I would be stomping around in a Shadowhawk too. And just leave when I run out of ammo, because I run fast enough. It's the mech that lives to fight another day.
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
Hold on did you mention dropping the LRM launcher on your family mech, have you any idea how tough it is to recalbrate new weaponry for a mech chassis, most custom jobs involve removing a laser and adding more armour or something like that. Here you want to completely redesign a mech removing a two ton missile module and its ammo bin in order to add a heavy autocannon. Will the software be able to cope, remember our software is black box its not designed for 'tweaks' like this. We could run tests but you would have to bring the mech to the factory and proably replace a lot of the daughtbaords in the cockpit. Has there ever been a refit kit for this kind of stuff. I know the Davions like to play with heavy autocannon and produce kits, but did they do so for the Shadowhawk, and its major house stuff anyway. way beyond anything a company or garriosn tech team can slip together.
Besides why removing the LRM and replace the autocannon with a heavier calibre anyway, thw ashadow Hawk is a very goosd blend of speed and utility, the pair of long range weapons gives it a good threat band. This is likely why your family has been able to keep them mech, and others like it such as ther Griffin. Were your ancestors Enforcer jocks you may well have been born to dispossessed parents
These are not omnis. They dont even have the benefit of recovered technology, any change is a major undertaking and all mechs are precious, some are merely more precious than others. You are a mechwarrior, you are the elite, your ride is a Shadow Hawk, fifty five tons of death to any who oppose you. Your only equal is another mechwarrior.
.
Cool text - really enjoyed that
514
Post by: Orlanth
Guitardian wrote:We used to just randomly draw who got what mech and just deal with it. For some reason (like low damage output?) I usually was happy to have the Shadowhawk because when there's 3 other more dangerous mechs on the board, like back-shotting jumpy lights or gun-heavy heavies and assaults... I was never a priority target. Actually its one of the only mechs I completely ran out of ammo (yes even the SRMs) and was still running around kicking at stuff and zapping away with the laser as the last mech in my lance, while the others all got gang raped one by one, all got gunned down. I left the battlefield after I realized that the other team's Locust had more firepower than me at that point (another low-priority survivor mech), but not after unloading every round of ammo I had and taking my plinky toll on them. So I guess its not such a bad thing to be a shadowhawk pilot. I wanted a Dragon for similar reasons but my friend always drew that one (I think he rigged the deck) and he had the same experience of people just not going after him much because ooohhh scary AC/5 and 10 LRMs just doesn't worry many heavy mechs... plus it can run around a lot and people just focus fire on the huge slow hard hitter heavy armored beast, that's a surer hit roll, or the back-threatening light that can go down to a couple of good shots.
Good 3025 play, but I wouldnt have tried to run from the Locust, you cant anyway unless you jump a long cliff. All that salvage and a Locust holds the spoils.
Guitardian wrote:
I think a hunchback would be a death sentence because everybody wants to bring it down as fast as possible, or a warhammer, awesome, panther, or other such high damage output mechs just begging to be mobbed. So drawing the Shadowhawk in multiplayer games is kind of a blessing because nobody really cares so much what you're doing but you do get those lucky hits from time to time and crit something or knock a head off and everyone including yourself is awestruck. Still, ammo runs out and you end up with just the ML and some decent armor and half-assed jets... time to go... live to fight another day
Speed is the major difference, mechwarrior families need a 5/8 design or faster, or deploy their mech in a heavy reseve unit. This is what most of the 'feudal' units were, fast skirmishers that wouldnt risk their assets beyond a certain points or noble heavy and assault mech battalions that were always the last in and first out.
All of those mechs mentioned above fall into the last category, except for the Panther which is in a category of its own. The Hunchback is a medium mech belonging as a backup beatstick in a heavy or assault lance, the rest are just bruisers.
the Panther is cheap its also a Combine mech, the samurai who owns it is expected to give his life, he is also expecting to have a mech replacement ready for his son when. lights are an exeption, they are expected to die, and the Panrther is an exception amongst lights as it his an honourary medium mech.
Guitardian wrote:
So if you could have 1 mech, 3025 canon, what would you want? The obvious first choice everyone wants an Awesome... but... when you play an 8 player game with 1 mech each, and psychology becomes a factor and you are looking out for just your own mech, what would you really prefer? The huge fire magnet that blows gak up like nobody's business (warhammer, awesome, hunchback), the dangerous backshooting mech (spider, wasp, locust, clint, cicada, grasshopper, quickdraw, etc... bugs), the fire support guy who just sits in a bush all game until it gets mobbed (archer, crusader, catapult, etc)... or the guy that nobody pays attention to because it's 1: hard to hit and 2: not very threatening? (shadowhawk, wolverine, dragon, etc)... or the obvious hard hitter with gak for armor (rifleman, zeus, victor, cyclops etc)... and the final category, the 'all-arounder' kind of thing like a battlemaster or thunderbolt or orion or which is halfway decent at everything but not really good at anything either...
As a family mech owner a Thunderbolt or Phoenix Hawk. The Thunderbolt is my choice of heavy sit in a reserve unit with other mech owning toffs mech. The Phoenix Hawk is a 'knights' mech. Though I am very tempted by the Quickdraw which is a blend of the two.
If I had my choice of 3025 mech and wanted to survive as a mechwarrior whether or not my lance survived or not... total self interest... I would be stomping around in a Shadowhawk too. And just leave when I run out of ammo, because I run fast enough. It's the mech that lives to fight another day.
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Post by: Mattlov
In 3025 my personal 'Mech of choice would depend entirely on the weight class I have to work with.
Light: Tough choice. Perhaps a Commando, maybe a Firefly if I could get one.
Medium: Vindicator. When you absolutely need a 'Mech that can cover almost any situation.
Heavy: Probably the PPC armed Grasshopper.
Assault: Stalker would be my default choice, unless I could scrounge an Imp off of Wolf's Dragoons. And if not an Imp, maybe a Marauder II.
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Post by: Guitardian
I really like backfiring mechs too... Quickdraw, Dragon, Battlemaster, etcetera with the butt-mounted lasers. I did well with those because it scared off the pesky bug mechs from trying to get a rear arc on me, so they would go after someone else instead. They usually lasted a long time.
Seriously the best way to play battletech is for everyone to have his own mech, form up lances, and duke it out from there. Because it does become that feudal self interest battle that way, instead of the 'master plan' type of game where both players control a whole force and think unlike a mechwarrior would think. It becomes far more interesting having to convince your team-mates to help your ass out of a bind at their own risk, but still pull off a lance vs lance win while everyone is really looking out for themselves. When your mech gets dead you go in the other room and watch star trek reruns and eat salsa waiting for the battle to play out.
Actually I met my first girlfriend by losing my Commando early in the game (another high output priority target mech) so I went to go hang out... and there was the dude who's house we were playing at, little sister also over in the next room, bored, waiting for the boys to finish being geeks. Best way to lose a mech is to get a first kiss out of it I guess... damn I miss being a 13 year old... The sweet innocent joys of life... YES! THEY KILLED MY COMMANDO! NOW I CAN GO HANG OUT WITH MIKE'S SISTER!
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Post by: Anpu42
If you want a real time killer, we have one we call the 100-Ton-Maxi [I may have already posted this]
1] You are only allow 100 tons on the board at a time.
2] You may not Eject until you are "Crippled" [Loss of a leg or all weapons, ect] or destroyed.
3] Once you are out of the fight you can bring in a New Mech.
or
The Stinger Drill
1] Everyone takes One Stinger and just lets the fun happen.
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Post by: Guitardian
could be fun doing an escalation thing when you start at the stinger drill and just work your way up 5 tons at a time until its nothin but behemoths stomping around, and the one lucky guy who kept his stinger safe. that would be a pretty epic game.
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Post by: Genosaurer
Level 1: Panther PNT-9R. Scrappy light 'mech that can fight above its weight class, hard-hitting, decent at all ranges jumps, reasonably durable for the era, fair heat efficiency. Very versatile. Also has an angry face for a cockpit, which endears it to me.
Level 2 IS: Lancelot LNC25-01. Gigantic engine? Check. All energy loadout, and enough heat sinks to fire them all day? Check. Good firepower for size? Check. Armor? ...well, nobody's perfect.
Level 2 Clan: Mad Dog (Vulture). Powerful, but not overpowering. A fun one to make custom pod configurations for, and a good flavorful character ride, if your gaming group does any kind of campaign play.
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Post by: Anpu42
Genosaurer wrote:Level 2 Clan: Mad Dog (Vulture). Powerful, but not overpowering. A fun one to make custom pod configurations for, and a good flavorful character ride, if your gaming group does any kind of campaign play.
My Favorite I base on an BattleTech Center Vulture the V4
6x Streak SRM-6 [4 tons ammo]
6 ERSL
15[30] Heat Sinks
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Post by: BAWTRM
If I had to choose any 3025 mech to actually roll with it would have to be the Grasshopper. Good armour and good manouverability with a good weapons load out. I'd only be fidgety about that LRM5 ammo.
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Post by: Guitardian
Yeah but nobody uses the LRM on a grasshopper anyways. It's all about jumping and lasing. The only reason you fire the LRM is to get rid of the ammo before it explodes. It is probably the most efficient mech of its time, but as such, becomes a very valid target to everyone else and its a damn good thing they put jumpjets on him because that's the only thing saving him from getting mobbed.
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Post by: Orlanth
The LRM is a 'get your attention' weapon. Its designed to support the hit and fade aspect of a Grasshopper's combat ability. The lasers are for the stand up fight.
I like how the LRMs are head mounted, they are there for the trickshot. The last thing we needed was yet another energy weapon only mech *yawn*, ammo is more fun.
Wonderful mech the Grasshopper, you would have though that by its name its just a less voracious variant of the Locust.
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Post by: sqir666
Well, my second favorite design is the Charger.
All of my friends always thought I was nutters for liking an Assault 'Mech that behaved in every way like a light, which was the reason I loved that thing so very much.
An Assault Recon 'Mech, yes please.
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Post by: Guitardian
I saw a Charger take a Warhammer apart once with a 8 hex charge and WHAMMO! that Warhemmer was just crushed with the onslaught. That's why it's called a charger, right? Nice when you have a good piloting skill for it.
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Post by: Mattlov
Guitardian wrote:I saw a Charger take a Warhammer apart once with a 8 hex charge and WHAMMO! that Warhemmer was just crushed with the onslaught. That's why it's called a charger, right? Nice when you have a good piloting skill for it.
You should try the large laser variant of the Charger. Incredible firepower at the expense of armor and heat sinks!
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Post by: Guitardian
Thanks but I'd rather just keep the armor and run into stuff if I draw a good pilot character. That thing is a battering ram that nobody takes seriously. Start adding on actually decent weapons and people notice you.
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Post by: Orlanth
Trouble is charging does damage to you too so its self defeating. the charger is not a cheap disposable unit due to its huge engine cost when CBills are considered.
This is a mech crying out for a hatchet or two. Or just downgrade the engine and cover it with guns.
Charger CGR-1A5. A refit kit with level 1 technology. reduces speed to 4/6 and rearms with an AC20, two SRM6, a small laser and a medium laser. Now who is laughing!
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Post by: Anpu42
Orlanth wrote:Trouble is charging does damage to you too so its self defeating. the charger is not a cheap disposable unit due to its huge engine cost when CBills are considered.
This is a mech crying out for a hatchet or two. Or just downgrade the engine and cover it with guns.
Charger CGR-1A5. A refit kit with level 1 technology. reduces speed to 4/6 and rearms with an AC20, two SRM6, a small laser and a medium laser. Now who is laughing!
But that is not a Charger that is a 80 ton Atlas
If you are going to play chargers you need two of the 5 Pop-Gun verions piloted by Betty and Wilma
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Post by: Orlanth
Anpu42 wrote:Orlanth wrote:
Charger CGR-1A5. A refit kit with level 1 technology. reduces speed to 4/6 and rearms with an AC20, two SRM6, a small laser and a medium laser. Now who is laughing!
But that is not a Charger that is a 80 ton Atlas
More like a Victor without jump jets. Its a 4/6 rather than 3/5 design, so it can still charge if you want to do so. i suppose that means AC20 ammo is out.
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Post by: Anpu42
We had a class of Mech we called “Stick Mechs”, because you needed a stick to beat them down.
Panther
Vindicator
Wolverine
Thunderbolt [our nickname was the Government Model 45]
Orion
Battlemaster
Banshee
I had a Thunderbolt once stand and slug it out with a 100 ton Mech for 5 turns in Melee before I walked through a building with no armor left, do relies how cold those things are when you are not firing the Large Laser.
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Post by: Guitardian
Agreed on all of the above list. Those are all mechs with ridiculous staying power, who often end up punching and (pilot willing) kicking until the last throes of the battle. Cool thing about Banshee is that it is not taken seriously. All of those mechs are great survivors, and they all carry close to a full armor load and at least 4/6 speed and jets for the smaller ones... coincidence?
I'm curious where 'government model 45' came from?
The only mechs I ever named were the ones who survived game after game... "Lionheart", who later became "Ol' reliable" who was my last-mech-standing champion Crusader (I painted him white with a red cross on his chest), "Hendrix" my Hatchetman, "Little John" my Archer who made it through 4 games and racks and racks of LRM ammo before he even got a leg knocked off and usually just ended up punching stuff... "Oswald"(as in Lee Harvey) my Assassin who nobody every bothered to shoot at much cause he's a difficult target with a minimal threat; Those are the only ones I named throughout about 5 years of hardcore weekly multiplayer games (not very origional names, I know, all with stupid and obvious references to the name of the Chassis). Hendrix the Hatchetman eventually ended up being self destructed by an ammo explosion... how appropriate. Hendrix self destructed after rocking for years. hee hee.
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Post by: Anpu42
Guitardian wrote:I'm curious where 'government model 45' came from?
The M1911A1 Government Issue .45 Automatic, you know Ol' Relable
Joke names do work the best, Like Logan the Wolverine Pilot, who love the claw rules
18176
Post by: Guitardian
We should play a dumb game naming all the old cannon mechs with the dumbest stupid cultural references. Starting at the 20 tonners...
Stinger: "The Police"
Wasp: "Protestant"
Locust: "Plague"
Commando: "Arnold"
Spider: "Charlotte"
Valkyrie: "Fat Lady Sings"
Javelin: "Track and Field"
Urbanmech: "Urbanwreck"
Panther: "Pantera"
Firestarter: "Half Baked"
Ostscout: "Socrates" (as in "why are we here?")
Jenner: "Wheaties" (Bruce Jenner was the origional wheaties box cover guy)
Whitworth: "Whatworth"
Vulcan: "Cripple God"
Assassin: "Lee Harvey"
Hermes II: "Shoot The Messenger"
Clint: "Eastwood" (kind of a no-brainer there)
Phoenix Hawk:..... dunno
Hatchetman: "Hendrix"
Vindicator: "Gibson" (after Mel aka braveheart who fought for freedom?)
Enforcer: "Robocop"
Centurion: "Julius"
Hunchback: "Quasi"
Trebuchet: "Trench Bucket"
Griffin: "Oberwald" (Blood bowl ref.)
Shadowhawk: hmmm.. dunno
Wolverine: "Logan"
Dervish: "Bin Laden"
Quickdraw: "McGraw" (duh)
Rifleman: "Oswald" (again)
Dragon: "Bruce"
Catapult: no idea
Crusader: "ReligionIsDumb"
Thunderbolt: "Rod"
Warhammer: "The Emprah!"
Archer: "Little John"
Grasshopper: "Annoyance"
Orion: "Target" (read the origional Artemis myth)
Marauder: "Zentraidi"
Charger: "Popgun"
Victor: "Victoria"
Zeus: "Swan"
Awesome: "Metalocolypse"
Stalker: "Condom"
Goliath: "Scooby" (he thinks he's a biped...)
Battlemaster: "Dubyah"
Cyclops: "No-Man" (read the Odyssey)
Banshee: "Souxie Sue"
Atlas: "Shrug" (Ayn Rand)
just some funny name ideas because I'm bored... I'm sure I missed a couple of the origional 55 but hey... whatever...
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Post by: skyth
Valkyrie: "Rider"
Panther: "Kitty"
Assassin: "Calidus"
Vulcan: "Chain Gun"
Phoenix Hawk: "Ashes"
Dervish: "Dancer"
Rifleman: "Vindicare"
Catapult: "Trojan Rabbit"
Archer: "Robin Hood" (DUH!)
Grasshopper: "Pebble From the Hand"
Orion: "Master"
Marauder: "Norse"
Zeus: "Lightning"
Awesome: "Dude"
Stalker: "Unseen Lurker"
Goliath: "David"
Cyclops: "X-Man"
Banshee: "Screamer"
Atlas: "Muscle Man"
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Post by: Sanguinary Dan
When they started the Star League and Clan crappola I turned and ran. The plain old Battletech game where most of the designs came from anime will always be my favorite. Once they started using more and more high tech-ish fanboy designed drek and then lost the licensing to the Destroids and other Japanese mecha I knew I wouldn't go back. And now it's owned by WotC isn't it? 
It's kind of sad since I have almost 100 metal mechs on hex bases. Someday I suppose I'll come across folks who still play the original game, or not.
Regardless, my favorite mech is a toss up between the Warhammer and the Thunderbolt. Or maybe the Shadow Hawk.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
What we started becouse everyone likes diferent Eras/Tech Levels is we started doing is after the end of each session we rotate who chooses what Ara/Tech we will play next time.
9454
Post by: Mattlov
Sanguinary Dan wrote:When they started the Star League and Clan crappola I turned and ran. The plain old Battletech game where most of the designs came from anime will always be my favorite. Once they started using more and more high tech-ish fanboy designed drek and then lost the licensing to the Destroids and other Japanese mecha I knew I wouldn't go back. And now it's owned by WotC isn't it?
It's kind of sad since I have almost 100 metal mechs on hex bases. Someday I suppose I'll come across folks who still play the original game, or not.
Regardless, my favorite mech is a toss up between the Warhammer and the Thunderbolt. Or maybe the Shadow Hawk.
No, WotC sure as hell doesn't own Battletech. It is owned on the highest level by Topps (yeah, the baseball card people) and licensed to Catalyst Game Labs. CGL has many old time Battletech writers, contributors, and part owners who continued the game line after FASA died.
In the end, if you like the "3025" era, you have no reason to stop playing. All the things you own (except LAMs for the moment) are totally and completely still viable to play with and use.
Have the old Unseen stuff? Great! Keep using it. No one will stop you or do anything about it unless you are a Catalyst Demo Agent. Even then, rights were secured for everything that was redesigned with the exception of the Robotech designs, a whopping 14 chassis.
All the stats for those designs are still valid. Everything you loved about the game back then? Nothing stopping you from playing that way now. NOT A THING. Come on back to the BAttletech Community. We'll take ya.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
yeah if we can find each other...
29163
Post by: Sanguinary Dan
Topps own Battletech? Do ya get a free stick of gum with every mech? 
While I'm happy to hear that I'm "allowed" to use my old FASA stuff (I know, I know. You meant that only in a "it's your toy, play the way that's fun for you" way. ) finding folks who want to play using that era of the game is harder than I'd thought possible. But if anyone in my area does want to dI'm more than willing.
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Post by: Mattlov
It isn't a complete list, but it gives you a place to start to find players:
http://www.catalystdemos.com
Sign up is free, no spam email or anything. It is a site for people to find their local Catalyst Demo Team Agents (like me) and other Catalyst gamers in the area. You can search for Battletech or ShadowRun if you play it.
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Post by: sqir666
Mattlov wrote:It isn't a complete list, but it gives you a place to start to find players:
http://www.catalystdemos.com
Sign up is free, no spam email or anything. It is a site for people to find their local Catalyst Demo Team Agents (like me) and other Catalyst gamers in the area. You can search for Battletech or ShadowRun if you play it.
I just did that and it seems that the closest place to me that has Battletech events is in Texas.
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Post by: Mattlov
sqir666 wrote:Mattlov wrote:It isn't a complete list, but it gives you a place to start to find players:
http://www.catalystdemos.com
Sign up is free, no spam email or anything. It is a site for people to find their local Catalyst Demo Team Agents (like me) and other Catalyst gamers in the area. You can search for Battletech or ShadowRun if you play it.
I just did that and it seems that the closest place to me that has Battletech events is in Texas.
I KNOW there are people in Oklahoma. I'll go try to dig some of them up if you are interested. Alternatively, you could head over to http://www.classicbattletech.com and sign up on the forums there. We're all friendly, and there is a "Gatherings and Challenges" Forum so you can say who and where you are. Hopefully people nearby will respond. But I know a several people in OK who play, I'm just not sure WHERE in Oklahoma they are.
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Post by: Hordini
Sanguinary Dan wrote:While I'm happy to hear that I'm "allowed" to use my old FASA stuff (I know, I know. You meant that only in a "it's your toy, play the way that's fun for you" way. ) finding folks who want to play using that era of the game is harder than I'd thought possible. But if anyone in my area does want to dI'm more than willing.
Actually from what I've seen, a lot of people still play 3025. It seems like most local groups that I've talked to have been pretty flexible too, so I'd recommend casting your net, so to speak, and see if you can find some local players, if you're interested in playing.
18176
Post by: Guitardian
This was kind of interesting: In the 'Mechwarrior' RPG 1991 edition (which I just found in my mom's back porch while visiting for the weekend )... There is a table for random mech assignments based on house affiliation. It is a 2d6 table, and as all Btech players know, 7 is the largest bracket of probability with 2d6. These are the lances that you would get if you rolled the (theoretically probable average) for each mech class:
Davion:
Valkyrie (obvious)
Dervish (??!!)
Rifleman (makes sense with hanse's autocan obsession)
Awesome (I'm wondering why it isn't a Victor)
Steiner:
Commando (duh)
PhoenixHawk
Rifleman
Zeus (duh again)
Kurita:
Panther (duh again again)
Whitworth
Dragon (obviously)
Victor (makes no sense since it's a Davion mech design)
Marik:
Locust (whatever)
Hermes II (sucky and appropriate)
Orion (ancient old design that still toughs it out, also appropriate)
Battlemaster (Yessss... I want one)
Liao:
Stinger (hey it's Liao... they're struggling)
Vindicator (That one is a no-brainer)
Catapult (!!!)
Cyclops (!!!!!!!)
Of all of these lance configurations I think the strongest combo is (gasp) Liao! Yeah stingers suck and cyclops is low on armor but can hit hard, but the stinger can guard the cyclops back while the Catapult and Vindi do the real work.
The second strongest combo is the Davion one, with its only weak spot being the stupid Dervish and its exploding SRM arms.
Which lance would you guys prefer to take, cuz I just might try playing all these lances off against each other on the mechwar simulator just to see, cuz I'm bored and visiting my mums house and have nuthin to do while she is off at work... taking bets... I'll tell you who the winner is after all bets are in (probably at the end of the weekend). I'm betting on Liao. Automatically Appended Next Post: Kurita a close second. Dragon is their toughie, whitworth kind of a tough 40 tonner that can multitask, but comparatively slow. Victor never made sense to me, and why it would be the most common Kurita assault mech I do not know. Panther rocks and everyone knows it.
Still I bet on Vindicator, Catapult as excellent efficiency mechs. Cyclops a lightweight but hard hitter, and stinker as the only weak spot so Liao!!! FTW!!!
18080
Post by: Anpu42
I like the Kurita Lance. Good Manuvability and LOTS of Meduim Range Firepower.
As for the Victor, it and the Panther would make a Brutal Close Combat Team.
Kurita also took the Victor Plant during te 4th Sucssesion War from the Frogs.
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