The monkey is a little strange, even if they have been around since RT times. Honestly, I don't think it fits in with the design sensibility of 40K at all, even if it is modeled well.
As to Crowe, he's not bad, but the picture is positioned such that you can't really see the sword at all. I would really like to see the sword. Of course, it presents the opportunity for converters to make one from plastic. Grey Knights in power armor box set, meet WHFB Chaos Knights box set...
<Pedant Mode>Orangutans are apes, not monkeys</Pedant Mode>
Jokaero weaponsmiths have been around since Rogue Trader. From what I've heard, they could actually do battlefield modifications to weapons to improve them mid-game.
agnosto wrote:Are they genetic modified apes or aliens? If they're aliens doesn't that go against the whole "burn the xenos" thing?
See page 197 of the first edition Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader rule book, they are aliens described as being similar to orangutans, not that they are orangutans.
<geek mode>So they technically are not apes or monkeys, but a completely alien species.</geek mode> I could rationalize about why the GK employ an alien, but that's enough geek mode for one post.
Release date is April 16, two weeks after the first big Grey Knights release.
They don't kill them off becuase they're entirely too usefull. It's like why they don't slaughter the Ogryns. . .because they soak bullets for the softer side of the IG. But, in this case, the Monkeys give the inquisition 60" lascannon spam.
Grim Smasha wrote:They don't kill them off becuase they're entirely too usefull. It's like why they don't slaughter the Ogryns. . .because they soak bullets for the softer side of the IG. But, in this case, the Monkeys give the inquisition 60" lascannon spam.
Ogryns are humans; just a divergent strain of humanity. As are the Ratlings and the Squats were the same thing--divergent strains of humanity.
I'm still completely befuddled as to why the Jokaero are in the Grey Knights book and not held back for the Deathwatch book we can all see coming.
I have no idea, but maybe the little guys are on loan by the mechanicum or something. They arent killed because the imperium and the adeptus mechanicus are in a partnership.
Or maybe the GK just like monkeys...
I am waiting for someone to build a giant king kong model, and have a jokaero strapped to its chest, as a stand in for the Dreadknight
They have no civilization to speak of, just kind roaming nomadic packs. They have no discernable language and do not seem to demonstrate higher intelligence...
Except, they are assumed to be something akin to a benevolent Mekboy, innate old-one programmed understanding of technology, even if besides that ability they are very animal like.
I think due to the above, I can accept the Inquisition being quite tolerant of them as they will never be a rival to any scale of Imperial civilization, and are in essence half pet half tool.
MajorTom11 wrote:They have no civilization to speak of, just kind roaming nomadic packs. They have no discernable language and do not seem to demonstrate higher intelligence...
Except, they are assumed to be something akin to a benevolent Mekboy, innate old-one programmed understanding of technology, even if besides that ability they are very animal like.
I think due to the above, I can accept the Inquisition being quite tolerant of them as they will never be a rival to any scale of Imperial civilization, and are in essence half pet half tool.
It sounds like, based on this, that banning them would be akin to banning thunderwolves, Salamanders, or those weird IG mounts...
Has anyone seen the rules for Crowe? Are they still the insanely pointless and counter-intuitive 'any unit assaulting Castellan Crowe gets Furious Charge and re-rolls failed To Hit rolls' that was in the pre-release?
Ape with ET fingers and googles BEST SPACE MARINE RELEASE EVAR! If they go this direction I would buy space marines for sure... gorilla, baboon, chimps thats the way baby! Then zoats, demiurgs...
Miraclefish wrote:Has anyone seen the rules for Crowe? Are they still the insanely pointless and counter-intuitive 'any unit assaulting Castellan Crowe gets Furious Charge and re-rolls failed To Hit rolls' that was in the pre-release?
From the Advance Order listing:
Mat Ward says:
Crowe's an unusual special character, with a sword he doesn't really use, and rules that empower his enemies, so why take him? Because he's a killing machine once in close combat, that's why. Essentially, Crowe combines all the best bits of Purifiers (Cleansing Flame) and Brotherhood Champions (the Perfect Warrior battle stances), making him a fantastic counter to both hordes and elites. In addition, Crowe's close combat attacks are rending on a roll of 4+. That'll put pretty much anything down.
Mat Ward says:
Crowe's an unusual special character, with a sword he doesn't really use, and rules that empower his enemies, so why take him? Because he's a killing machine once in close combat, that's why. Essentially, Crowe combines all the best bits of Purifiers (Cleansing Flame) and Brotherhood Champions (the Perfect Warrior battle stances), making him a fantastic counter to both hordes and elites. In addition, Crowe's close combat attacks are rending on a roll of 4+. That'll put pretty much anything down.
Is it just me or does the Jokaero look like a baby, orange version of the Clawed Fiend? (Or rather, the Clawed fiend looks like a giant, blue, hormone-induced rage version of the Jokaero?)
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Is it just me or does the Jokaero look like a baby, orange version of the Clawed Fiend? (Or rather, the Clawed fiend looks like a giant, blue, hormone-induced rage version of the Jokaero?)
It's not just you, that was my second though (right after WHATTHEFETHSPACEMONKEY!!!!)
Platuan4th wrote:I need like 20 Jokaero.
I don't care what they do in game.
Get a clawed fiend to, paint it orange and see if you can sculp some goggles on him. If only there was something you could use them as a proxy for
Yes, the Jokaero is a Xeno and it is impossible to communicate with them. So naturally Ordo Xeno can field a complete Jokaero army to purge the universe from Xenos, the Codex doesn't feel the need to explain why BTW Reaper also has a nice Cyber Ape http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/Chronoscope/latest/50214 and there are always the Space gorillas from AT-43: Kharman.
BTW Mat Ward confirmed, and Crowe special character as well.
SkaerKrow wrote:As happy as I am to see the Jokaero returned to the game, including them in the Grey Knights Codex is a pretty sloppy, hair brained move.
Gets a pass with me since the book finally has Ordo Xenos Inquisitor rules.
SkaerKrow wrote:As happy as I am to see the Jokaero returned to the game, including them in the Grey Knights Codex is a pretty sloppy, hair brained move.
Matt Ward you say?
No, this reeks of Pete Haines or Alessio Cavatore.
But they left the company...or are they secretly funneling all their stupid ideas through Ward?
Kroothawk wrote:Yes, the Jokaero is a Xeno and it is impossible to communicate with them.
Just like it's impossible to communicate with apes today? Just because we can't verbally discourse with it doesn't mean we can't find some way to tell it what we want.
SkaerKrow wrote:As happy as I am to see the Jokaero returned to the game, including them in the Grey Knights Codex is a pretty sloppy, hair brained move.
Gets a pass with me since the book finally has Ordo Xenos Inquisitor rules.
Realy, holy feth thats awsome.
Is there any difference in ordo exenos inquisitors and other inquisitors. (wargear, rules, etc)
SkaerKrow wrote:As happy as I am to see the Jokaero returned to the game, including them in the Grey Knights Codex is a pretty sloppy, hair brained move.
Gets a pass with me since the book finally has Ordo Xenos Inquisitor rules.
Realy, holy feth thats awsome.
Is there any difference in ordo exenos inquisitors and other inquisitors. (wargear, rules, etc)
You know ... the Dreadknight may actually be a product of the Jokaero, it does have a kinda Simian look to it..hmmmm
Also as the little orange apes are weapon crafters extrodinaire, the tau should make it priority one to recruit the little fellas and give them a nicer home, than titan, one with all the bananas they can eat, and nobody will yell at them for flinging poo...in return for digital railguns of course
Lorek wrote:<Pedant Mode>Orangutans are apes, not monkeys</Pedant Mode>
Jokaero weaponsmiths have been around since Rogue Trader. From what I've heard, they could actually do battlefield modifications to weapons to improve them mid-game.
Dunno if I'm dredging up an old argument here, but they were also fluffed as being untameable. No one ever managed to coerce one into servitude. When they were caught, they weren't around for long. GW just rewriting history now then?
197 - Rogue trader background wrote:Jokaero tend to build only things which meet their own immediate needs. Attempts to control the Jokaero and force them to construct technology have met with failure as they build things with which to escape from their captors.
Here's hoping for a Gyrinx for the next Elder dex! Jokaero invented digital weapons too, so they're kinda still in the fluff, but it doesn't mention in the recent fluff that they invented them.
The GK model line just keeps getting worse. First the horrible toy-like dreadknight and now orange space apes? What a way to ruin what was once one of the coolest factions in the 40k universe.
Stanley Rubric wrote:The Jokaero are awesome. I don't even play GK and I want some of these just to paint up.
+1 on that!
Polonius Wrote:
Yeah, working with an alien race and building a relationship of trust and mutual respect would be a problem.
Holding a useful critter captive and exploiting it as much as you can is a light day of evil for the IoM.
Ah, but read this rather amusing bit of the background:
Jokaero tend to build only things which meet their own immediate needs. Attempts to control the Jokaero and force them to construct technology have met with failure as they build things with which to escape from their captors.
So, the only logical explanation; they were bribed with bananas!
Stanley Rubric wrote:The Jokaero are awesome. I don't even play GK and I want some of these just to paint up.
+1 on that!
While I hate the dreadknight model, I actually really like the space ape. I just don't like the idea of including the space ape in with the GK range. Really i don't think it has a place in the grim dark universe that is 40k. I'd love to have a couple to paint and display but shiver to think of seeing them across the table form me.
But seriously, I love the Space Monkeys, I'm gonna have five in my army, I don't care that their meant to be in Grey Knights and I collect Dark Eldar, I'm still having five of them
Phayse, GW often re-write stuff like this, especially for minor species suck as these
I just hope more minor species start popping up like this, like Hrud or Demiurg
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Is it just me or does the Jokaero look like a baby, orange version of the Clawed Fiend? (Or rather, the Clawed fiend looks like a giant, blue, hormone-induced rage version of the Jokaero?)
It's not just you, that was my second though (right after WHATTHEFETHSPACEMONKEY!!!!)
Platuan4th wrote:I need like 20 Jokaero.
I don't care what they do in game.
Get a clawed fiend to, paint it orange and see if you can sculp some goggles on him. If only there was something you could use them as a proxy for
I can totally see both of them in the same army, one named "Dr. Jekyll" and the other "Mr. Hyde"
Double points for the models, as Blue is the complimentary (basically, opposite) color of Orange.
That's a pretty outrageous price on such a small figure. When I saw the Jokaero I assumed for some reason that being a small weird little thing it would be bundled with Crowe a bit like Huron Blackheart came with his chaos familiar thing.
I really wasn't expecting GW to pack it separately and slap nearly £8 on it.
Stanley Rubric wrote:The Jokaero are awesome. I don't even play GK and I want some of these just to paint up.
+1 on that!
While I hate the dreadknight model, I actually really like the space ape. I just don't like the idea of including the space ape in with the GK range. Really i don't think it has a place in the grim dark universe that is 40k. I'd love to have a couple to paint and display but shiver to think of seeing them across the table form me.
I agree that it doesn't seem to work at all in the GK range. I would love to see them in a Tau codex though. With all the different species that the Tau bring into their fold, these little guys would be perfect. In fact, I might paint some up and station them around my Tau just for show. I can totally picture these little space apes working on repairing battle suits.
NAVARRO wrote:Ape with ET fingers and googles BEST SPACE MARINE RELEASE EVAR! If they go this direction I would buy space marines for sure... gorilla, baboon, chimps thats the way baby! Then zoats, demiurgs...
I am shocked none of the Halo fans had said anything about this, if I get the cash(and time) I may have to take a crack at a Covenant Battle Force count as GK, with some Engineers as a stand in for the monkey men. the moment I read what the buggers do, it screamed(at least me) blue floating fishy thing from Halo, but that's just me and my evil, twisted acceptance of Halo and its back ground :p
now I just have to figure out how to get all the models at a proper size for such a game....we'll here we go, curse you GW for making a codex so soon where my imagination could run wild with again, I so need to stop reading the "New Releases", my wallet and checking will be grumbling for quite some time ><.
NAVARRO wrote:Ape with ET fingers and googles BEST SPACE MARINE RELEASE EVAR! If they go this direction I would buy space marines for sure... gorilla, baboon, chimps thats the way baby! Then zoats, demiurgs...
SM = Simarines?
Exactly and the proportions are just there, just pop in a monkey head on those damned horrible marines.
An orange ape that can't communicate with man, but it know what it wants: 60" lascannons.
It can escape at any time, but for some reason, hangs out with man, who loathes him, so he can make said 60" lascannons.
As Bill O'Reilly would surely say, you can't explain that.
Howard A Treesong wrote:That's a pretty outrageous price on such a small figure. When I saw the Jokaero I assumed for some reason that being a small weird little thing it would be bundled with Crowe a bit like Huron Blackheart came with his chaos familiar thing.
I really wasn't expecting GW to pack it separately and slap nearly £8 on it.
It's great to see the Warhammer 40,000 background expanding to include the occasional alien race every now and again. The Jokaero have been mentioned in Warhammer 40,000 since the Rogue Trader version of the game and they've now got their own model. Traditionally the Jokaero made digital weapons, tiny little finger-rings or personal items of immense power, and in Codex: Grey Knights this tradition has been kept. Expect nothing short of excessive firepower from these little guys, as they can spawn a lascannon, a heavy flamer or a multi-melta each turn, which is a nasty surprise for any adversary to run into.
Garuss Acine wrote:I am shocked none of the Halo fans had said anything about this, if I get the cash(and time) I may have to take a crack at a Covenant Battle Force count as GK, with some Engineers as a stand in for the monkey men. the moment I read what the buggers do, it screamed(at least me) blue floating fishy thing from Halo, but that's just me and my evil, twisted acceptance of Halo and its back ground :p
You may want to re-read the Engineer's fluff. They take apart and study technology, but they're a peaceful, non-combative species, whereas Jokaero raid settlements for parts. Jokaero and Engineers aren't alike.
MajorTom11 wrote:They have no civilization to speak of, just kind roaming nomadic packs. They have no discernable language and do not seem to demonstrate higher intelligence...
Except, they are assumed to be something akin to a benevolent Mekboy, innate old-one programmed understanding of technology, even if besides that ability they are very animal like.
I think due to the above, I can accept the Inquisition being quite tolerant of them as they will never be a rival to any scale of Imperial civilization, and are in essence half pet half tool.
How on earth do you get any in your retinue if they have no language? How do you get them to shoot their awesome guns at the targets you choose? What's to keep them from leaving in the middle of a fight?
Jburch wrote:I have no idea, but maybe the little guys are on loan by the mechanicum or something. They arent killed because the imperium and the adeptus mechanicus are in a partnership.
Or maybe the GK just like monkeys...
I am waiting for someone to build a giant king kong model, and have a jokaero strapped to its chest, as a stand in for the Dreadknight
Sort of like this:
(Sorry it doesn't look as good as the looted one from last week, but the jokaero and this joke is just too much even for me to spend a lot of time on it).
Garuss Acine wrote:I am shocked none of the Halo fans had said anything about this, if I get the cash(and time) I may have to take a crack at a Covenant Battle Force count as GK, with some Engineers as a stand in for the monkey men. the moment I read what the buggers do, it screamed(at least me) blue floating fishy thing from Halo, but that's just me and my evil, twisted acceptance of Halo and its back ground :p
You may want to re-read the Engineer's fluff. They take apart and study technology, but they're a peaceful, non-combative species, whereas Jokaero raid settlements for parts. Jokaero and Engineers aren't alike.
well their fluff was bound to be different, but the ability to modify weapons on the battlefield is close enough for me to go ahead with the project
now just to find a source of properly sized figures to stand in for Power Armor marines and terminators, maybe Halo Clix will be the answer I am looking for, anyone know if the elites have enough mass/height to be close to Power Armored marines?
plans for Phantoms already are popping into my head, now only if they could take Land Speeders(sighs at the idea of Banshees).
Garuss Acine wrote:
now just to find a source of properly sized figures to stand in for Power Armor marines and terminators, maybe Halo Clix will be the answer I am looking for, anyone know if the elites have enough mass/height to be close to Power Armored marines?
If no one else does, I'll get you comparison pics from my Clix collection this afternoon.
NAVARRO wrote:Ape with ET fingers and googles BEST SPACE MARINE RELEASE EVAR! If they go this direction I would buy space marines for sure... gorilla, baboon, chimps thats the way baby! Then zoats, demiurgs...
Garuss Acine wrote:
now just to find a source of properly sized figures to stand in for Power Armor marines and terminators, maybe Halo Clix will be the answer I am looking for, anyone know if the elites have enough mass/height to be close to Power Armored marines?
If no one else does, I'll get you comparison pics from my Clix collection this afternoon.
you good sir are awesomesauce, thank you very much in advance ^^
this is random and far from on subject, sorry topic crowd!
but got to say Platuan, first time I've seen anyone sporting the CSF symbol.
I really like Jokaero he's an amazing model and I think adds something new to the GK's army. As for Castellan Crowe, my mouth drops to the floor every time I even mention him so I think a loving explanatory reason is out of the question
Damn I almost died laughing twice in this thread, first from BrookM throwing out a OOK!
And then Lord Scythican and his abomination at the top of this page.
Awesome stuff.
As to the figure, it's okay.
Although CSM are now glaring at it and motioning to their own Codex, a burning lighter and lots of rage at the idea of one of their best and unique units being nabbed for the Emperors service.
I also have to add the thought, so orange space Apes are cool for the modern 40K universe, but Hairy Dwarf bikers aren't?? Colour me confuzzled.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
And then Lord Scythican and his abomination at the top of this page.
Awesome stuff.
I am glad I could be of service! There is a voltron inspired apocalypse formation around here somewhere, a looted dread, and a DreadLock Knight around here too.
I also have to add the thought, so orange space Apes are cool for the modern 40K universe, but Hairy Dwarf bikers aren't?? Colour me confuzzled.
Whoever said that orange space apes are "cool" for the modern 40k universe?
This is another added unit in the context of the Grey Knights book at least that should be taken out back and put down like Old Yeller and the Dreadknight.
As for the Jokaero themselves: they were never an army. They were a unit, which was later removed and kept on as background because hey--they're not completely stupid like "Hairy dwarf bikers".
I like the space ape mini, and I can cope with the fluff (I don't really mind if 40K isn't perfectly... realistic), and the stats sound great, but it's too expensive for me.
I don't really mind if 40K isn't perfectly realistic...
That's good, the acid-spitting genetically altered organ implanted super-humans that guard the galaxy spanning Empire of Man will be glad to hear that as they travel through warp space in their psychically guided giant space ships.
Whether or not it was meant to be facetious that statement has to be the all-time ROFLOL winner on this forum!
I think some of you have the wrong p.o.v. It's not a monkey taht escapes all the time. It's not a captive. It's an ally. Even if you can't communicate via spoken language, there would be other types of communication.
A Xenos Inquisitor having one of these in it's retinue is no weirder to me than a malleus Inquisitor having, say, a Demonhost.
It doesn't necessarily mean it's being kept captive. Perhaps it's working with the =I= for some other reason that is known only to it.
Seriously, fluff only needs to be *so* deep to be passable for the game.
Wow, I never thought the day would come when these guys were released. I am just going to try and forget I ever saw that model.
Technically, it's an update just like the Grey Knights minis, though it took longer to get to it. The last Jokaero model was made of lead in the Rogue Trader days two decades ago. Picture:
Even back in RT days I thought they were just a joke ,hence the name I suppose. I mean Joke in their name? Someone was taking the whatsit. Personally I'm holding out for Rincewind to lead my space marines. He gets into deadly situations and survives every time which is very lucky dice rolling or he has a +1 saving throw!
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Damn I almost died laughing twice in this thread, first from BrookM throwing out a OOK!
And then Lord Scythican and his abomination at the top of this page.
Awesome stuff.
As to the figure, it's okay.
Although CSM are now glaring at it and motioning to their own Codex, a burning lighter and lots of rage at the idea of one of their best and unique units being nabbed for the Emperors service.
I also have to add the thought, so orange space Apes are cool for the modern 40K universe, but Hairy Dwarf bikers aren't?? Colour me confuzzled.
OMG you're right! Grey Knights are getting Oblits!! RAGE!!
Erm... I do believe an Orangutan is actuallly a Great Ape, not a mere Ape.
I might be wrong.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and the writing on the Grey Knight models kind of puts me off.
Reminds me too much of 80's style 'Dave, Cheryl' windscreen names.
Either that, or they get so addled blasting the nervous systems of their enemies, they need name tags on every piece of armour to remind them who it belongs to, where it goes, or what it does. I bet if you could see the Stormbolters to scale, it would have words to the effect 'point this end at the enemy'
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I really, really hope that it states in the Codex that when the player deploys ole Jokey, s/he has to sing, "I'm the King of the Swingers".
That would make me want to play GK's.
They look pretty nice models to me fwiw.
Yea but I'm pretty sure he already has the power of man's red flower. In like... 3 different forms.
MagickalMemories wrote:I think some of you have the wrong p.o.v. It's not a monkey taht escapes all the time. It's not a captive. It's an ally. Even if you can't communicate via spoken language, there would be other types of communication.
A Xenos Inquisitor having one of these in it's retinue is no weirder to me than a malleus Inquisitor having, say, a Demonhost.
It doesn't necessarily mean it's being kept captive. Perhaps it's working with the =I= for some other reason that is known only to it.
Seriously, fluff only needs to be *so* deep to be passable for the game.
That would probably work for 1, and as an Inquisitor's Henchmen, but the rumor seems to indicate you can spam them pretty hard.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slipstream wrote:Even back in RT days I thought they were just a joke ,hence the name I suppose. I mean Joke in their name? Someone was taking the whatsit. Personally I'm holding out for Rincewind to lead my space marines. He gets into deadly situations and survives every time which is very lucky dice rolling or he has a +1 saving throw!
They'd be the chapter that replaces "And They Shall Know No Fear" with "And They Shall Know Fear All The Time"...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mr Mystery wrote:Oh, and the writing on the Grey Knight models kind of puts me off.
Reminds me too much of 80's style 'Dave, Cheryl' windscreen names.
Either that, or they get so addled blasting the nervous systems of their enemies, they need name tags on every piece of armour to remind them who it belongs to, where it goes, or what it does. I bet if you could see the Stormbolters to scale, it would have words to the effect 'point this end at the enemy'
Well, there is some old background that most Space Marines are mind-scrubbed after seeing Chaos. I would assume Grey Knights are mostly immune, but one of the GK novels mentions it. From context it appears that the GK usually only get a light scrub, while others might need to be re-taught quite a bit.
Still better than Imperial Guard, who may be killed to prevent any chance of Chaos taint spreading as they're just not worth the scrubbing and relearning.
The Jokaero are an alien race, ape-like in appearance.
(...) they have no language, culture or motivation higher than survival.
(...)It is impossible to argue or reason with a Jokaero, and even giving them what they want is difficult, since they are incapable of communicating.
Jokaero tend to build only things which meet their own immediate needs. Attempts to control the Jokaero and force them to construct technology have met with failure as they build things with which to escape from their captors.
Guess Supreme Grand Master Chuck Norris is so awesome that he travelled back in time, changed the official background and travelled back again.
Or Mat Ward has no clue or interest in official background.
NAVARRO wrote: Power to ape!
BrookM's ape is from Micro Art. What is the source for this one??
I like the one thats leaping with the two extra bionic arms, I thaught of jakero as large apes with a bad attitude who smoke cigars while they work on there next mad (but very usefull) invention
Not only do I see "HIT IT WITH YOUR REDEMPTION SWORD!" Becoming a meme...
But I really, honestly am just confused by GW. First they deny that Jokaero, Squats, and all other abominations of the RT-era ever existed, then the next thing you know, they put up Jokaero for pre-order.
GW, I am disappoint... No. That's too soft a word to describe the utter, crushing and complete loss of faith that the completely nonsensical elements of the GK release have brough about.
How aboot... "GW, I am disillusion, disgust, and... digest?"
I just love the fact that a majority of people are whining about the fact that jokaero can be taken as an option in a Grey Knights codex and that it's not "fluffy".
Ever heard that they could take daemon hosts? And that they don't already have one but TWO models available?
Personally, I feel that it makes perfectly sense: - radical daemon-hunter ==> employs daemonhosts - radical witch-hunter ==> employs penitent psykers - radical xeno-hunter ==> employs jokaeros!
Come on people, GW has finally provided us with the opportunity to field Ordo Xenos units and all you do is whine?
Just take this mini for what it's worth: a bit of humor on GW part.
(What am I thinking? I'm actually trying to reason an internet mob! I must be mad! Mad I say!)
Jburch wrote:I dont know what to say...that space monkey abomination...
I am in awe of the stupidity
Agreed. Not only did it sound like a dumb idea in the first place, but the execution is terrible. They arent running so good with the GK stuff. PA and termies are good, SCs look decent...dreadknight needs help and that monkey is terrible.
M'Kachen's Nemesis wrote:Personally, I feel that it makes perfectly sense:
- radical daemon-hunter ==> employs daemonhosts
- radical witch-hunter ==> employs penitent psykers
- radical xeno-hunter ==> employs jokaeros!
Come on people, GW has finally provided us with the opportunity to field Ordo Xenos units and all you do is whine?
(What am I thinking? I'm actually trying to reason an internet mob! I must be mad! Mad I say!)
Just to answer with reason:
It makes sense that a radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor WANTS to tame a Jokaero, but fluff is quite explicit that he has more chances to train a Carnifex mount than a Jokaero
That said, I like the Jokaero model and the original concept (basically developped around the pun "digital weapons"), but not a Xeno army to cleanse the universe from Xenos.
I am thinking maybe I might have to make a diorama piece paying homage to "Every Which Way But Loose". All I would need is an Inq, Jaekero, a trukk and Ork Warbiker Mob!
Kroothawk wrote:
Just to answer with reason:
It makes sense that a radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor WANTS to tame a Jokaero, but fluff is quite explicit that he has more chances to train a Carnifex mount than a Jokaero .
And no one seems to be claiming that they're taming a Jokaero, that's something you guys came up with yourselves. Maybe there's some sort of agreement for post battle pillaging between Ape and Inquisitor, as that seems to be the only reason by fluff that Jokaero are ever intentionally offensive(for parts for ships and equipment).
As it is currently, Jokaero fight for 2 reasons: scavenge for parts and if they're threatened. Maybe they found a way to make that work to their advantage without seeming like they're controlling the Jokaero.
Platuan4th wrote:Maybe there's some sort of agreement for post battle pillaging between Ape and Inquisitor, as that seems to be the only reason by fluff that Jokaero are ever intentionally offensive(for parts for ships and equipment).
Except even that doesn't fit fluff. There's absolutely no way to communicate with them, so an agreement wouldn't be possible.
So they're still just there for the sake of "Here! Have some randomly inserted comic relief!"
Platuan4th wrote:Maybe there's some sort of agreement for post battle pillaging between Ape and Inquisitor, as that seems to be the only reason by fluff that Jokaero are ever intentionally offensive(for parts for ships and equipment).
An agreement that can only be reached if the Jokaero are sapient, in which case they are Xenos and need to be destroyed.
Fury_00011 wrote:So anyone have a guess when Ordo xenos well be released?
The Ordo Xenos should never get their own book. Make the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and their retinue a 0-1 choice for the Space Marines codex, and you're set.
Giving GK the Jokaero makes no sense. I could easily see it with the Ordros Xenos as that would be like chocolate and peanut butter, but for GK is like peanut butter and mayonnaise. Ugh!
Moopy wrote:Giving GK the Jokaero makes no sense. I could easily see it with the Ordros Xenos as that would be like chocolate and peanut butter, but for GK is like peanut butter and mayonnaise. Ugh!
Lame comparison imo, only a rather liberal, read radical, Ordo Xenos inquisitor would use an alien like a jokaero. But if you're fighting daemons and chaos filth all the time you might easily come to the conclusion smart space monkeys aren't the worst thing after all.
Moopy wrote:Giving GK the Jokaero makes no sense. I could easily see it with the Ordros Xenos as that would be like chocolate and peanut butter, but for GK is like peanut butter and mayonnaise. Ugh!
Lame comparison imo, only a rather liberal, read radical, Ordo Xenos inquisitor would use an alien like a jokaero. But if you're fighting daemons and chaos filth all the time you might easily come to the conclusion smart space monkeys aren't the worst thing after all.
Not really. The Ordo Xenos is one great big gob of 'gray area'. They utilize alien technology on a daily basis, gather up specimens for study, etc.
It's not a "radical" thing in their case. It's just another day at the office.
Moopy wrote:Giving GK the Jokaero makes no sense. I could easily see it with the Ordros Xenos as that would be like chocolate and peanut butter, but for GK is like peanut butter and mayonnaise. Ugh!
I think you people are nuts... This is a fantastic model and a great nod back to Rogue Trader era.
As for 'Grey Knights' using Jokaero, you have to remember that this book allows Grey Knights to include Mallues, Hereticus AND Xenos inquisitors...it represents the fact that even a Xenos-Inquisitor can summon the might of the Grey Knights if need be. I'm sure the Grey Knights are none too happy about fighting alongside Xenos-scum, but breaking the commands of an Inquisitor is also a very serious breach of protocol.
And as for the Rogue Trader era 'fluff' on the Jokaero, why would that apply any more than the fluff that Genestealers are just some species from Ymgarl and not a Tyranid offshoot? The fact is, GW (as is their right) constantly rewrites or reinterprets the fluff as needed.
There's no reason that a Xenos Inquisitor wouldn't have the secret to controlling or communicating with the Jokaero, and obviously there isn't as they are in the army, and likely to be in every other book that comes out from here on that includes Inquisitors.
At the end of the day, they had a radical Inquisitorial choice for the Malleus (the Daemonhosts) and plenty of good choices for the Hereticus henchman (flagellants, Death-Cult assassins) so they needed one for the Xenos Inquisitor. Rather than going with another typical boring 'warrior' type Xenos species, I'm really glad they went with something a bit atypical with the Jokaero. They are still most certainly Xenos (which is what was needed) but they aren't like any other Xenos in the game, which makes them refreshing IMHO.
Now, whether or not the RULES for them are broken is an entirely other story, but ultimately is completely irrelevant from the awesome (IMHO) model and the overall choice to include them as a henchman for Xenos Inquisitors.
The Jokearo are supposed to be a joke (joke sounds a lot like Jokaero...), it's just a bit of humour injected into an already somewhat silly game. The fact that the most serious faction, GK, can take them makes it even funnier. I mean what's better than having a monkey-mechanic hanging around with daemon-battling space knights?
I'm just a little annoyed that they stole the Oblits' thunder and they seem pretty spammable. I like the model and the concept but not the rules. Fluff is easily reworked (and only slightly) to make room for these guys.
The only thing about these two models that bugs me is why does it say "REDEMPTION SWORD" on Crowe's armour. Seems like an odd phrase.
I think the model is fine, and I love the nod to RT since I started playing in 1989, but I wish they reintroduced them in a way that made more sense; less jarring.
Who says the Jokaero are xenos? According to the old school fluff the Old Ones originally took them from Terra and planted them elsewhere. They're our cousins!
Kanluwen wrote:
I don't think people are really upset by the model--but the fact that it's in the Grey Knights book.
But why? The book, and presumably all future books allow you to include any type of Inquisitor in the army, so it makes perfect sense to have henchmen representing all of the Inquisitorial factions.
Its the same reason that the Sisters of Battle codex will almost assuredly allow Daemonhosts to be included in the army...because you can still take an Inquisitor in the army who sees the benefit of including such creatures as their hechmen and the rest of the army can just suck it...Inquisitors can do what they want.
AgeOfEgos wrote:Who says the Jokaero are xenos? According to the old school fluff the Old Ones originally took them from Terra and planted them elsewhere. They're our cousins!
Well, the new codex entry seems to strongly suggest it, and given the fact that they're really the only 'new' Henchman type included in the book along with the entirely new 'Xenos' Inquisitor...I think you can connect the dots.
AgeOfEgos wrote:Who says the Jokaero are xenos? According to the old school fluff the Old Ones originally took them from Terra and planted them elsewhere. They're our cousins!
Well, the new codex entry seems to strongly suggest it, and given the fact that they're really the only 'new' Henchman type included in the book along with the entirely new 'Xenos' Inquisitor...I think you can connect the dots.
Seriously, Ward calls them Xenos? Am I off my rocker in remembering the old fluff...?
AgeOfEgos wrote:Who says the Jokaero are xenos? According to the old school fluff the Old Ones originally took them from Terra and planted them elsewhere. They're our cousins!
Well, the new codex entry seems to strongly suggest it, and given the fact that they're really the only 'new' Henchman type included in the book along with the entirely new 'Xenos' Inquisitor...I think you can connect the dots.
I don't think that suggests it more than the fact that they are alien space monkeys suggests it.
AgeOfEgos wrote:Who says the Jokaero are xenos? According to the old school fluff the Old Ones originally took them from Terra and planted them elsewhere. They're our cousins!
Well, the new codex entry seems to strongly suggest it, and given the fact that they're really the only 'new' Henchman type included in the book along with the entirely new 'Xenos' Inquisitor...I think you can connect the dots.
Seriously, Ward calls them Xenos? Am I off my rocker in remembering the old fluff...?
You're off your rocker in remembering the old fluff.
AgeOfEgos wrote:Who says the Jokaero are xenos? According to the old school fluff the Old Ones originally took them from Terra and planted them elsewhere. They're our cousins!
Well, the new codex entry seems to strongly suggest it, and given the fact that they're really the only 'new' Henchman type included in the book along with the entirely new 'Xenos' Inquisitor...I think you can connect the dots.
Seriously, Ward calls them Xenos? Am I off my rocker in remembering the old fluff...?
You're off your rocker in remembering the old fluff.
Jokaero are Xenos.
Rogue Trader, page 197: "Their physical appearance is of a heavy, orange-furred ape, similar to the orang-utang which roamed ancient Earth. This may or may not be coincidence, for it is an established fact that the Slann created and modified many races at the dawn of time, and appear to have visited the Earth on numerous occasions. "
AgeOfEgos wrote:Who says the Jokaero are xenos? According to the old school fluff the Old Ones originally took them from Terra and planted them elsewhere. They're our cousins!
Well, the new codex entry seems to strongly suggest it, and given the fact that they're really the only 'new' Henchman type included in the book along with the entirely new 'Xenos' Inquisitor...I think you can connect the dots.
Seriously, Ward calls them Xenos? Am I off my rocker in remembering the old fluff...?
You're off your rocker in remembering the old fluff.
Jokaero are Xenos.
Rogue Trader, page 197: "Their physical appearance is of a heavy, orange-furred ape, similar to the orang-utang which roamed ancient Earth. This may or may not be coincidence, for it is an established fact that the Slann created and modified many races at the dawn of time, and appear to have visited the Earth on numerous occasions. "
And that's how you get people to buy you a beer at Adepticon. Thanks for digging that up dude.
I am of the opinion that Jokaero are out of place in the book. I think if they wanted to add something that would fit in with a radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, I can’t help but think that were better options available in 40k fluff for this.
I suspect Matt Ward just wanted to add fierce fire support unit for “lolz” and took a shortcut and Jokaero were the result. At the end of the day, the unit seems to be the unfortunate result of copy+paste rules meeting copy+paste fluff.
candy.man wrote:I am of the opinion that Jokaero are out of place in the book. I think if they wanted to add something that would fit in with a radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, I can’t help but think that were better options available in 40k fluff for this.
I suspect Matt Ward just wanted to add fierce fire support unit for “lolz” and took a shortcut and Jokaero were the result. At the end of the day, the unit seems to be the unfortunate result of copy+paste rules meeting copy+paste fluff.
Like I said: this seems more and more like an Alessio Cavatore/Pete Haines move.
Ward has to be a meatpuppet for those two to hatch their insidious plans.
candy.man wrote:I am of the opinion that Jokaero are out of place in the book. I think if they wanted to add something that would fit in with a radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, I can’t help but think that were better options available in 40k fluff for this.
I suspect Matt Ward just wanted to add fierce fire support unit for “lolz” and took a shortcut and Jokaero were the result. At the end of the day, the unit seems to be the unfortunate result of copy+paste rules meeting copy+paste fluff.
Such as? Having any kind of warrior race wouldn't really be appropriate because an Inquisitor walking around with militaristic Alien warriors by his side would but even his Inquisitorial seal to the test. I think its pretty clear by the race they chose that they were looking for a race that would still be highly beneficial for an Inquisitor to use but wouldn't be immediately thought of as a militaristic threat. I think the Jokaero is a perfect fit because it represents the kind of things that Inquisitors can bring to the table...things that most people wouldn't immediately think of as a weapon at first glance, but it turns out to be completely deadly.
While there are lots of random alien species names out there in the 40K background there aren't that many that have already been formed in any real kind of way. The Jokaero exist in Rogue Trader, fit the bill for the Xenos Inquisitor henchman, so why not include them?
When it comes to including new models in a codex, it is always a collaborative effort between the designers and the writers. There is just as much possibility that they decided to include the Jokaero from a fluff perspective first and then wrote the rules to match what they thought they should do as there is for your theory (that they wanted to create a powerful unit first and then shoe-horned the Jokaero in to fit).
And actually, I can say that from my limited experience dealing with the company they almost always approach it from the former standpoint...they say...we need a Xenos henchman choice, what would be cool? And then they move on from there.
I don't get how the Jokaero are 'copy+paste' rules...because they are able to choose from a few different weapon choices each turn similar to what Obilterators do? What about pretty much every other stat or rule they have that makes them totally unlike Obliterators?
candy.man wrote:I am of the opinion that Jokaero are out of place in the book. I think if they wanted to add something that would fit in with a radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, I can’t help but think that were better options available in 40k fluff for this.
I suspect Matt Ward just wanted to add fierce fire support unit for “lolz” and took a shortcut and Jokaero were the result. At the end of the day, the unit seems to be the unfortunate result of copy+paste rules meeting copy+paste fluff.
Such as? Having any kind of warrior race wouldn't really be appropriate because an Inquisitor walking around with militaristic Alien warriors by his side would but even his Inquisitorial seal to the test. I think its pretty clear by the race they chose that they were looking for a race that would still be highly beneficial for an Inquisitor to use but wouldn't be immediately thought of as a militaristic threat. I think the Jokaero is a perfect fit because it represents the kind of things that Inquisitors can bring to the table...things that most people wouldn't immediately think of as a weapon at first glance, but it turns out to be completely deadly.
You know what would have been better?
The Grey Knights book(and Inquisitors within) remaining puritanical.
Deathwatch book(it's coming, let's face it. The Deathwatch RPG has moved Deathwatch from being an organization that was, at best, an all-volunteer Special Forces arsekicking brigade to a Chapter of its own) having the more 'radical' and 'neutral' Inquisitorial elements present.
Sisters of Battle get their own book, with Ecclesiarchy and no Inquisition(if only to shut up some of the SoB diehards that they've been soooooo mistreated in having the Inquisition in their book).
While there are lots of random alien species names out there in the 40K background there aren't that many that have already been formed in any real kind of way. The Jokaero exist in Rogue Trader, fit the bill for the Xenos Inquisitor henchman, so why not include them?
Jokaero don't really "fit the bill" for any kind of henchman, at least not with the Xenology and Rogue Trader notes on them.
They explicitly avoid contact with humanity and other races(although I do recall something of them having a fondness for the Eldar, but what of the Old Ones' creations--other than the Orks of course -- hasn't had that?) and build themselves escape routes out of what seems like a pile of unrelated trash.
Demiurg would have worked out better there. Or an Eldar Corsair. Or practically anything except a Jokaero
When it comes to including new models in a codex, it is always a collaborative effort between the designers and the writers. There is just as much possibility that they decided to include the Jokaero from a fluff perspective first and then wrote the rules to match what they thought they should do as there is for your theory (that they wanted to create a powerful unit first and then shoe-horned the Jokaero in to fit).
And actually, I can say that from my limited experience dealing with the company they almost always approach it from the former standpoint...they say...we need a Xenos henchman choice, what would be cool? And then they move on from there.
In that case, they need a swift kick to the head. Jokaero do not fit in the Grey Knights book.
Really. They don't. It's like the Orks being led by a Snotling.
I don't get how the Jokaero are 'copy+paste' rules...because they are able to choose from a few different weapon choices each turn similar to what Obilterators do? What about pretty much every other stat or rule they have that makes them totally unlike Obliterators?
Nothing really, but of course Chaos players are going to find something to be upset about.
Kanluwen wrote:
You know what would have been better?
The Grey Knights book(and Inquisitors within) remaining puritanical.
Deathwatch book(it's coming, let's face it. The Deathwatch RPG has moved Deathwatch from being an organization that was, at best, an all-volunteer Special Forces arsekicking brigade to a Chapter of its own) having the more 'radical' and 'neutral' Inquisitorial elements present.
Sisters of Battle get their own book, with Ecclesiarchy and no Inquisition(if only to shut up some of the SoB diehards that they've been soooooo mistreated in having the Inquisition in their book).
Why would that have been better? All the codexes in the last few years have been about providing open army lists that allow players to theme their forces as they see fit. So if someone wants to play a puritanical Grey Knights force, they totally can with the book. Or if they want to play a Grey Knights force that is being commanded by a Xenos Inquisitor (or Hereticus Inquisitor), they can do that too.
What is wrong with having the option to do either? It is a way to kind of have a little bit of the ally rules built into each 'Inquisitorial' codex without going full bore and including units from other codexes...the point apparently being that sometimes Inquisition forces from different specialties end up working together to fight a common enemy.
Jokaero don't really "fit the bill" for any kind of henchman, at least not with the Xenology and Rogue Trader notes on them.
They explicitly avoid contact with humanity and other races(although I do recall something of them having a fondness for the Eldar, but what of the Old Ones' creations--other than the Orks of course -- hasn't had that?) and build themselves escape routes out of what seems like a pile of unrelated trash.
Demiurg would have worked out better there. Or an Eldar Corsair. Or practically anything except a Jokaero
Eldar don't fit the bill because they're an existing army, and they were obviously looking for a fun chance to add a new model for a lesser race to the current game. Demuirg could have worked, you're right, but maybe they're going to be in the next Tau book? And either way, having a combative Alien race as a henchman is an entirely different 'feel' than what the Jokaero provide. Since they don't wage wars on their own and normally avoid human contact, the fact that Xenos Inquisitors are able to coral or coerce them into helping makes them more of a 'tool' for the Inquisitors then an 'ally', which would make it easier for Grey Knights (for example) to accept the Inquisitor having them in their employ.
In other words, the Eldar and presumably the Demuirg are enemies of the Imperium for the most part. Jokaero have not been described as any kind of enemy because they do not wage wars or attack anyone. So again, they make the perfect 'tool' for an Inquisitor who has secret knowledge about how to coral/coerce them into service.
Kanluwen wrote:
You know what would have been better?
The Grey Knights book(and Inquisitors within) remaining puritanical.
Deathwatch book(it's coming, let's face it. The Deathwatch RPG has moved Deathwatch from being an organization that was, at best, an all-volunteer Special Forces arsekicking brigade to a Chapter of its own) having the more 'radical' and 'neutral' Inquisitorial elements present.
Sisters of Battle get their own book, with Ecclesiarchy and no Inquisition(if only to shut up some of the SoB diehards that they've been soooooo mistreated in having the Inquisition in their book).
Why would that have been better? All the codexes in the last few years have been about providing open army lists that allow players to theme their forces as they see fit. So if someone wants to play a puritanical Grey Knights force, they totally can with the book. Or if they want to play a Grey Knights force that is being commanded by a Xenos Inquisitor (or Hereticus Inquisitor), they can do that too.
Frankly?
Because it's the Grey Knights book. Not "Grey Knights, Heretics, and Puritans".
You're misunderstanding my point though. I'm not saying "No Inquisitors". I'm saying no Daemonhost-utilizing Inquisitors, no Jokaero-utilizing Inquisitors, nothing of that nature in the Grey Knights book. It should, first and foremost, be the "Puritan" book.
What is wrong with having the option to do either? It is a way to kind of have a little bit of the ally rules built into each 'Inquisitorial' codex without going full bore and including units from other codexes...the point apparently being that sometimes Inquisition forces from different specialties end up working together to fight a common enemy.
Just doesn't feel right. You know it will inevitably be Grey Knights fighting side by side with Daemonhosts. Shouldn't happen.
Jokaero don't really "fit the bill" for any kind of henchman, at least not with the Xenology and Rogue Trader notes on them.
They explicitly avoid contact with humanity and other races(although I do recall something of them having a fondness for the Eldar, but what of the Old Ones' creations--other than the Orks of course -- hasn't had that?) and build themselves escape routes out of what seems like a pile of unrelated trash.
Demiurg would have worked out better there. Or an Eldar Corsair. Or practically anything except a Jokaero
Eldar don't fit the bill because they're an existing army, and they were obviously looking for a fun chance to add a new model for a lesser race to the current game. Demuirg could have worked, you're right, but maybe they're going to be in the next Tau book? And either way, having a combative Alien race as a henchman is an entirely different 'feel' than what the Jokaero provide. Since they don't wage wars on their own and normally avoid human contact, the fact that Xenos Inquisitors are able to corral or coerce them into helping makes them more of a 'tool' for the Inquisitors then an 'ally', which would make it easier for Grey Knights (for example) to accept the Inquisitor having them in their employ.
While Eldar are an existing army, the Corsairs are something which as it stands hasn't really been 'fleshed out'. There was more than enough wiggle room there.
Demiurg, while combative, seem to only have done it when the Imperials were the aggressors. They're also a fully sentient race, gifted traders and craftsmen--entirely appropriate for a mercenary race that an Inquisitor has developed ties to.
Something about the Jokaero inclusion just feels...off. And that's even discounting the "they don't fit in the Grey Knights book" weirdness.
In other words, the Eldar and presumably the Demuirg are enemies of the Imperium for the most part. Jokaero have not been described as any kind of enemy because they do not wage wars or attack anyone. So again, they make the perfect 'tool' for an Inquisitor who has secret knowledge about how to corral/coerce them into service.
Actually, the Jokaero are known to attack human settlements to take parts to build their inventions.
@Yak Face
Thanks for your reply. Personally I can see your perspective that Jokaero could be somewhat applicable because they don’t fit into the “warrior xenos” category and their pre-existing fluff could somewhat justify them as an applicable choice for a Xenos Inquisitor henchmen. That being said, in the grand scheme of things, an applicable choice doesn’t necessarily make it a good choice.
In terms of taking into account the rules+fluff, the 5th edition Jokaero suffer from a classic mismatched syndrome. Fluff wise, they’re described as an engineer type unit, with the ability to repair and upgrade equipment for the inquisitor. Rule wise he is an offensive ranged unit that can mix and match heavy weapons like an Obliterator (whilst hiding behind 3++ Crusaders lol). If one were to write rules to mirror the fluff, personally I would expect to things like the tech marine repair rule and the ability to moderately buff the ranged capacity of the unit, with the Jokaero being moderately equipped with assault weaponry at best as a counter balance (with the unit essentially functioning as a support/buffing type unit). I reckon if the fluff solely described Jokaero as vicious inquisitorial tools for siege warfare then the current rules might be a perfect fit.
I think I should preface by saying I'm a bit of a GW fanboy. I've never had an interest in any other tabletop games outside of GW games. I like the fluff and have been around for long enough to appreciate(and enjoy) some of the sillier aspects of the universe. I typically roll my eyes at the GW bashers who take everything way too seriously, and have rolled with the punches after they sucked the life out of my Chaos army with the last codex.
But this... I don't know. I appreciate the fact they have been including more xenos races in new codexes. The new stuff in the Dark Eldar codex was cool, interesting, and fit in well. But Jokaero in Grey Knights is bizarre. I knew it was coming from the rumors. What really gets me is the rules. So on top of everything else Grey Knights have they basically get Obliterators. As if they needed any more advantages.
I really don't care at all about competitive play. I don't play tournaments, and I probably won't ever play against Grey Knights as I game casually with a group of friends that play with a similar mentality of just having a good time and don't buy the newest, hottest armies. However, I do care about fluff and I do care about some general consistency between books. It things like this that bother me when comparing things with my own army, or any other army for that matter. Like Sicarius having true toughness 6 yet Typhus is T4(5). How does that make any sense? Grey Knights can take god damn space orangutans but Chaos can't have (real)daemons? Are you fething kidding me?
I really would like to rant more about his, but it wouldn't do any good. I will say I was just beginning to buy a new chaos army(again), and now I'm honestly just going to wait however long it takes for Chaos to be rereleased. If 40k keeps going the way it going in terms of how books are written I may just stick with Necromunda. At least GW doesn't care enough to feth that up, or do anything with it at all, so I'm pretty safe in still having a good game there.
yakface wrote:All the codexes in the last few years have been about providing open army lists that allow players to theme their forces as they see fit.
... as long as they bring a special character.
If they as open as you say they were, I wouldn't need Coteaz to play the army today I played yesterday without him.
Seeing the Jokaero makes me want to convert a Jokaero force using Kroot rules, or something...
Still, I'm fine with the inclusion in Codex: GK, but my only problems are that: Little space monkey man gets a Lascannon?!? I could see an S6 AP4 Assault: 3 weapon maybe, but the Lascannon, IMHO is too over-the-top.
Like the Crowe model, daemon sword is, IMHO, kinda dumb... Seems like the Grey Knights should just leave the sword where it was, let some other Chaos Champ find it and get killed... rather than carry it around and kill Chaos with it. 4+ rending is bullgak, and shall remain so.
Between Kroothawk and Yakface, I've decided that the Jokaero are OK with me.
The Imperium hates Chaos.
The Inquisition has radical elements who don't mind using Chaos against it.
The Inquisition thus has inquisitors who use Daemonhosts.
The Imperium hates Xenos.
The Inquisition has radical elements who don't mind using Xenos against themselves.
The Inquisition thus has inquisitors who use Xeno, just as the Jokaero.
The price of the mini is excessive, and the rules, i dunno, but fluffwise I think it's OK.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Right, so, no actual reason, just more Marine hate. Gotcha.
They are little more than a Sternguard squad, lead by an Inquisitor or Librarian. There's just not enough new content to justify anything more than a White Dwarf article, or a shared codex with either the Grey Knights or Codex Marines.
AlexHolker wrote:They are little more than a Sternguard squad, lead by an Inquisitor or Librarian. There's just not enough new content to justify anything more than a White Dwarf article, or a shared codex with either the Grey Knights or Codex Marines.
I was so happy to see the Jokero up for preorder, and not delayed for a later wave. I was sad to see that the monkeys required so many bananas for their services, $12 per figure ouch. I think that GW missed the boat on this one. If they made them cheaper and made a variety of sculpts they would have made a killing. At the current price and lack of variety in poses people will think twice about buying a troop of monkeys.
Jadenim wrote:More to the point; have GW missed a trick in not including a Deathwatch squad as a unit in this codex?
If nothing else as a retinue option for the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor.
This.
It's easy to play arm-chair quarter back, I know. However, if you're going to include an Ordo Xenos guy in the Grey Knights Codex, how could you not include an elite squad similar to sternguard or vanguard or honor guard to represent DeathWatch?
i hate to change the subject from the thread fav of space apes but i'm more excited about the tidbit on the "what's new" article about new versions of both the Inquisitors Rex and Lok from previous books. if they follow their normal method of releasing an update pdf, it'll effectively make the characters usable by those without the books without having to resort to piracy.
They missed the biggest opportunity by not including a Deathwatch list in the book.
'Aegis of the Imperium'--all three Inquisitorial Ordos, two of three Chambers Militant(Sisters players would've cried if they were tied with the Inquisition again)--and a 'uge friggin' book.
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warboss wrote:i hate to change the subject from the thread fav of space apes but i'm more excited about the tidbit on the "what's new" article about new versions of both the Inquisitors Rex and Lok from previous books. if they follow their normal method of releasing an update pdf, it'll effectively make the characters usable by those without the books without having to resort to piracy.
I find it more obnoxious that the Psycannon Razorback isn't being included in the book.
warboss wrote:i hate to change the subject from the thread fav of space apes but i'm more excited about the tidbit on the "what's new" article about new versions of both the Inquisitors Rex and Lok from previous books. if they follow their normal method of releasing an update pdf, it'll effectively make the characters usable by those without the books without having to resort to piracy.
I find it more obnoxious that the Psycannon Razorback isn't being included in the book.
don't they get the option of TL-assault cannons on their razorbacks in the final version? if they do, you *effectively* get a forgeworld psycannon version albeit less elegantly than if they had just listed it as an option. i won't see the preview dex until tomorrow (assuming my FLGS got their preview in) so don't know for sure personally.
Yes, the problem is not so much that it isn't 40k fluffy, it's that it isn't Inquisition fluffy. Using them to build weapons is one thing, but having them on the field for all to see? Not seeing it. If anything the TAU should have them.
yakface wrote:I think you people are nuts... This is a fantastic model and a great nod back to Rogue Trader era.
As for 'Grey Knights' using Jokaero, you have to remember that this book allows Grey Knights to include Mallues, Hereticus AND Xenos inquisitors...it represents the fact that even a Xenos-Inquisitor can summon the might of the Grey Knights if need be. I'm sure the Grey Knights are none too happy about fighting alongside Xenos-scum, but breaking the commands of an Inquisitor is also a very serious breach of protocol.
And as for the Rogue Trader era 'fluff' on the Jokaero, why would that apply any more than the fluff that Genestealers are just some species from Ymgarl and not a Tyranid offshoot? The fact is, GW (as is their right) constantly rewrites or reinterprets the fluff as needed.
Lexicanum 40k wrote:The Jokaero are an alien race, ape-like in appearance. No one has ever concluded whether they are an intelligent race. They are certainly capable of tremendous technological and logical feats, yet they have no language, culture or motivation higher than survival.(...)
It is impossible to argue or reason with a Jokaero, and even giving them what they want is difficult, since they are incapable of communicating. (...)
Jokaero tend to build only things which meet their own immediate needs. Attempts to control the Jokaero and force them to construct technology have met with failure as they build things with which to escape from their captors.
The point is that Jokaeros are fundamentally uncontrollable. So the miniature is a nod to Rogue Trader days, the new fluff is a kick in the nuts of Rogue Trader days.
Just imlying that Grey Knights and Inquisition are so awesome that they can twist existing fluff by 180 degrees with a snap is showing no respect for the 40k universe.
Even if Mat would send Draigo back in time to kick the Old Ones forcing them to alter the Jokaero race concept. But obviously, Mat doesn't think it's necessary to even mention an explanation, probably because he is not aware of the fluff.
yakface wrote:Why would that have been better? All the codexes in the last few years have been about providing open army lists that allow players to theme their forces as they see fit. So if someone wants to play a puritanical Grey Knights force, they totally can with the book. Or if they want to play a Grey Knights force that is being commanded by a Xenos Inquisitor (or Hereticus Inquisitor), they can do that too.
Xeno-hunter/hater armies are okay, Xeno-themed Xeno-hunter/hater armies are nonsense and not needed.
Kroothawk wrote:The point is that Jokaeros WERE fundamentally uncontrollable. So the miniature is a nod to Rogue Trader days, the new fluff is a kick in the nuts of Rogue Trader days.
Fluff is malleable. That's kind of how it works. I think you'll find that most of RT is no longer valid as it has changed since it was published 20 to 30 years ago.
Just imlying that Grey Knights and Inquisition are so awesome that they can twist existing fluff by 180 degrees with a snap is showing no respect for the 40k universe.
Just as SW twisted fluff, IG twisted fluff, etc. Except none of them did, GW twisted the fluff to fit the needs of the evolving universe that they produce.
Even if Mat would send Draigo back in time to kick the Old Ones forcing them to alter the Jokaero race concept. But obviously, Mat doesn't think it's necessary to even mention an explanation, probably because he is not aware of the fluff.
Retcons often ignore previous fluff and don't explain, since that would break the fourth wall.
Kroothawk wrote:
yakface wrote:Why would that have been better? All the codexes in the last few years have been about providing open army lists that allow players to theme their forces as they see fit. So if someone wants to play a puritanical Grey Knights force, they totally can with the book. Or if they want to play a Grey Knights force that is being commanded by a Xenos Inquisitor (or Hereticus Inquisitor), they can do that too.
Xeno-hunter/hater armies are okay, Xeno-themed Xeno-hunter/hater armies are nonsense and not needed.
Why wouldn't Xeno-themed Xeno-Hunters be appropriate? There is even a Radical Xenos Inq character in the book who uses Xenos tech and I'm sure would have a squad of Necron Immortals standing right next to her if she could reliably control them.
It's the same as having Daemonhosts in a GK codex. Some Radicals use the weapons of the enemy against the enemy. This is long established in 40k fluff.
Additionally, in Valeria's fluff, it says that GKs maintain a neutral stance on questions of Radical behavior and disputes.
model is awesome - a must buy, have not got the codex but assume that the Jokareo is part of an Inquisitorial Retinue and not a "honourary" Grey Knight.
No issue for me in inclusion if its a codex that primary focuses on the Grey Knights and the people who call them in / work with them.............
just patiently waiting for an Amberley Vail model for the Xenos Inquisitor.......... if they can do D Eldar females justice they can sort this out...........
pretre wrote:
Why wouldn't Xeno-themed Xeno-Hunters be appropriate? There is even a Radical Xenos Inq character in the book who uses Xenos tech and I'm sure would have a squad of Necron Immortals standing right next to her if she could reliably control them. It's the same as having Daemonhosts in a GK codex. Some Radicals use the weapons of the enemy against the enemy. This is long established in 40k fluff.
Additionally, in Valeria's fluff, it says that GKs maintain a neutral stance on questions of Radical behavior and disputes.
This is the problem. Jokaero are supposed to be as impossible to control as Immortals or anything else. Having a Jokaero unit without explaination is as ridiculous as having a unit of Necron Immortals or Tau Firewarriors as part of your retinue. Except that at least Tau could be convinced that it benefits the Greater Good to do so.
Unless you want to use the argument that it is less like using xeno, and more like using horses. Rough Rider inquisitors. But, you know, with space monkeys. So really no more or less xeno than using spacewolves. For... Space Wolves.
Kroothawk wrote:The point is that Jokaeros are fundamentally uncontrollable. So the miniature is a nod to Rogue Trader days, the new fluff is a kick in the nuts of Rogue Trader days.
Why is it that they *are* fundamentally uncontrollable? This is the part I don't understand.
People are holding onto this old fluff like it's sacred text from the Holy Scripture.
At the time that the RT book was written, mankind believed that the Jokaero were "fundementally uncontrollable." The operative word in that sentence is "believed."
Look at the text you quoted from Lexicanum:
No one has ever concluded whether they are an intelligent race. They are certainly capable of tremendous technological and logical feats, yet they have no language, culture or motivation higher than survival.
No one has ever concluded whether they're intelligent?
They make uber-nasty weapons in the shape of RINGS and are impossible to keep captive, because they build stuff to escape. I'm going to go on a line here and conclude that they are, indeed, intelligent.
The next line goes on to refer to their "tremendous technological and logical feats." Awesome. Sounds even more like intelligence to me.
yet they have no language, culture or motivation higher than survival
And how would the writer know that? If he's never communicated with one, how can he know their language, culture, motivations, intelligence levels, etc? If you're calling your dog, and he's 5 feet away, but he doesn't even look at you, does that mean he's suddenly gone deaf or does it mean he's ignoring your attempts at communication?
On that note, take a look at cats. Except when it suits them, they ignore us & don't bother to try to communicate. Why? Well, anyone who's ever had a cat knows it's because they believe they're better than us.
Why can't people accept that things change? Whereas nobody had communicated with the Jokaero up to that point, at the time of the writing of the RT book, times in the 41st Millennium have advanced.
Why can't someone have finally managed to communicate with one and passed that knowledge along?
Why can't the Jokaero have finally agreed, as a race, that we were worth speaking to and now don't mind associating with certain elements of humanity?
Why can't it be that we finally developed some technology that picks up the ultrasonic wavelengths that they use to comunicate?
Fluff is malleable. If advances with time.
If it didn't (warning: AD&D reference), then Raistlin would still be captive of Takhisis and King Azoun would have never died.
Fluff changes so that it can advance. Otherwise, it just becomes stagnant and disinteresting.
Eric
--Reading this back for typos, it strikes me that it could be read as containing smart-assery. That is not my intent. It should be read as friendly banter. Emphais friendly.--
MagickalMemories wrote:Why can't people accept that things change? Whereas nobody had communicated with the Jokaero up to that point, at the time of the writing of the RT book, times in the 41st Millennium have advanced.
Why can't someone have finally managed to communicate with one and passed that knowledge along?
Why can't the Jokaero have finally agreed, as a race, that we were worth speaking to and now don't mind associating with certain elements of humanity?
Why can't it be that we finally developed some technology that picks up the ultrasonic wavelengths that they use to comunicate?
Fluff is malleable. If advances with time.
If it didn't (warning: AD&D reference), then Raistlin would still be captive of Takhisis and King Azoun would have never died.
Fluff changes so that it can advance. Otherwise, it just becomes stagnant and disinteresting.
Well said. I, for one, am glad that fluff has advanced past Rainbow Warriors and Space Sharks*.
* Yes, I know they are technically still around...
That's crazy talk, Space Sharks and Rainbow Warriors are the best chapters. I mean if you can have Space Wolves, why not Space Sharks? They're like the wolves of the sea, like tuna are the chicken of the sea.
Kanluwen wrote:They missed the biggest opportunity by not including a Deathwatch list in the book.
'Aegis of the Imperium'--all three Inquisitorial Ordos, two of three Chambers Militant(Sisters players would've cried if they were tied with the Inquisition again)--and a 'uge friggin' book.
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warboss wrote:i hate to change the subject from the thread fav of space apes but i'm more excited about the tidbit on the "what's new" article about new versions of both the Inquisitors Rex and Lok from previous books. if they follow their normal method of releasing an update pdf, it'll effectively make the characters usable by those without the books without having to resort to piracy.
I find it more obnoxious that the Psycannon Razorback isn't being included in the book.
MagickalMemories wrote:Why can't it be that we finally developed some technology that picks up the ultrasonic wavelengths that they use to comunicate?
Fluff is malleable. If advances with time.
friendly.--
Pretty much agree with all of this - especailly about the cats!
Although I figure the Jokaero have bothered to build a comms device to communicate with the hairless primatives that keep annoying them. Perhaps an individual has consented to accompany a human -in the same way as Eldar are known to assist humanity - for its own reasons - perhaps it s a full commuity and no-one including the Inquisitor knows why......... nothing in the original fluff says they wouldn't jst that they are unpredictable and uncontrollable - does the new Codex say anything more /new about them?
Kanluwen wrote:They missed the biggest opportunity by not including a Deathwatch list in the book.
'Aegis of the Imperium'--all three Inquisitorial Ordos, two of three Chambers Militant(Sisters players would've cried if they were tied with the Inquisition again)--and a 'uge friggin' book.
Not all of us, although I guess I should be considered a "Sisters player in retirement" these days. I think it would be a much cooler way to handle things if GW was open to doing Codex releases that were either paired enemies (I.E. Space Wolves vs. Thousand Sons, or similar) or otherwise 'big books' that cover related factions. I think other companies do this and it makes for fun lists that can still be as flavorful as the current codices.
Plus, from at least my PoV, if I bought "Codex: Imperial Miscellany" to play my Sisters, I'd also look at that Adeptus Mechanicus list as something to consider, especially if I could trial a couple units in my SoB.
Automatically Appended Next Post: still feel it makes more sense for them to be a limited thing, like 1 in an Inquisitor's retinue (if they still have the old-style fun retinues: I've heard they don't) than squads.
It's funny: many sued to refer to the Witch Hunters Codex as the 'freak show' due to the weird Inquisitorial bits, the penitent engine, Repentia, Arco-Flaggelants, etc. It sounds like the Grey Knights have usurped this title, as they can now cover 3 branches of the Inquisition, their pet xenos, Grey Knights on stilts, etc...
pretre wrote:I think he's trying to say that DW have 'always' been associated with Ordo Xenos. Sisters were only really associated with Ordo H in C:WH.
And the GK's have always been associated with the Ordo Malleus, and yet we have Hereticus and Xenos Inquisitors in their Codex. There's no more logic to that than there is in including Deathwatch Squads in a Grey Knight Codex.
pretre wrote:I think he's trying to say that DW have 'always' been associated with Ordo Xenos. Sisters were only really associated with Ordo H in C:WH.
And the GK's have always been associated with the Ordo Malleus, and yet we have Hereticus and Xenos Inquisitors in their Codex. There's no more logic to that than there is in including Deathwatch Squads in a Grey Knight Codex.
It could have gone either way. I'm not sure that they are needed, but hey, whatever. I still haven't seen a real codex to read the fluff and see if GK are the sole arm of the Inquisition now. If they are, that'd make a lot more sense.
pretre wrote:I think he's trying to say that DW have 'always' been associated with Ordo Xenos. Sisters were only really associated with Ordo H in C:WH.
And the GK's have always been associated with the Ordo Malleus, and yet we have Hereticus and Xenos Inquisitors in their Codex. There's no more logic to that than there is in including Deathwatch Squads in a Grey Knight Codex.
Which is why I said they missed out on instead of just doing a "Grey Knight" codex, they could have done it as an Inquisition and the associated Chambers Militant book.
Kanluwen wrote:Which is why I said they missed out on instead of just doing a "Grey Knight" codex, they could have done it as an Inquisition and the associated Chambers Militant book.
I think that once we see the full codex, we will find out there is only one Chamber Militant now.
For those of you looking for a more nuanced and refined (and far less Ward-y) take on the Grey Knights and the Ordo Malleus in general, then this is always an option.
Kanluwen wrote:Which is why I said they missed out on instead of just doing a "Grey Knight" codex, they could have done it as an Inquisition and the associated Chambers Militant book.
Ah. Ok. I get it now.
In that case, yes, it would have been better to get an all-inclusive Inquisition Codex. Even the 'Wave' releases are pretty obvious then - Wave 1, GKs (Special Chars, Termies, Power Armour, Dreadknight. Wave 2, Sisters (Special Chars, Sisters Box, Serephim Box, plastic Exorcist). Wave 3, Deathwatch (Special Chars, DW Termies, DW Power Armour, [something else]).
H.B.M.C. wrote:For those of you looking for a more nuanced and refined (and far less Ward-y) take on the Grey Knights and the Ordo Malleus in general, then this is always an option.
Kanluwen wrote:Which is why I said they missed out on instead of just doing a "Grey Knight" codex, they could have done it as an Inquisition and the associated Chambers Militant book.
Ah. Ok. I get it now.
In that case, yes, it would have been better to get an all-inclusive Inquisition Codex. Even the 'Wave' releases are pretty obvious then - Wave 1, GKs (Special Chars, Termies, Power Armour, Dreadknight. Wave 2, Sisters (Special Chars, Sisters Box, Serephim Box, plastic Exorcist). Wave 3, Deathwatch (Special Chars, DW Termies, DW Power Armour, [something else]).
I would leave the Sisters out really. Have the Hereticus being focused more on using Stormtroopers and Inquisitors.
Save the Sisters for their own book with a heavy Ecclesiarchy presence.
H.B.M.C. wrote:For those of you looking for a more nuanced and refined (and far less Ward-y) take on the Grey Knights and the Ordo Malleus in general, then this is always an option.
Kanluwen wrote:Which is why I said they missed out on instead of just doing a "Grey Knight" codex, they could have done it as an Inquisition and the associated Chambers Militant book.
Ah. Ok. I get it now.
In that case, yes, it would have been better to get an all-inclusive Inquisition Codex. Even the 'Wave' releases are pretty obvious then - Wave 1, GKs (Special Chars, Termies, Power Armour, Dreadknight. Wave 2, Sisters (Special Chars, Sisters Box, Serephim Box, plastic Exorcist). Wave 3, Deathwatch (Special Chars, DW Termies, DW Power Armour, [something else]).
Holy crap.
Did you two just agree on something?
Isn't that one of the signs of the Apocalypse? Let's just pray it's a regular one and not Zombie kind.
Why make a really cool character (abilities wise) and then make it look really turd-esque?
GW must have, back many years ago, made 500,000 little space monkeys and realised that they were sh*t so put them away in storage. Now, with the recession hitting, they have brought them back and made them really good, so as to tempt players into buying them in the hope of getting shut of them and finally turning a profit on what must be one of their daftest models ever.
I hate the Jokaero and will not get any, no matter how good they are. If someone bought me it as a present, I would put it in the bin. Grey Knights look so cool but these monkeys would wreck the look if fielded with them.
Kanluwen wrote:I would leave the Sisters out really. Have the Hereticus being focused more on using Stormtroopers and Inquisitors.
Save the Sisters for their own book with a heavy Ecclesiarchy presence.
Translation: Just do it like that or we'll get trouble from the bra-burners.
Pretty much
judging from my experience with the 40k demographic, i think the majority of SOB players need a bro instead of a bra (melissia excluded i assume). (seinfeld joke)
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MagickalMemories wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:For those of you looking for a more nuanced and refined (and far less Ward-y) take on the Grey Knights and the Ordo Malleus in general, then this is always an option.
Kanluwen wrote:Which is why I said they missed out on instead of just doing a "Grey Knight" codex, they could have done it as an Inquisition and the associated Chambers Militant book.
Ah. Ok. I get it now.
In that case, yes, it would have been better to get an all-inclusive Inquisition Codex. Even the 'Wave' releases are pretty obvious then - Wave 1, GKs (Special Chars, Termies, Power Armour, Dreadknight. Wave 2, Sisters (Special Chars, Sisters Box, Serephim Box, plastic Exorcist). Wave 3, Deathwatch (Special Chars, DW Termies, DW Power Armour, [something else]).
Holy crap.
Did you two just agree on something?
Isn't that one of the signs of the Apocalypse? Let's just pray it's a regular one and not Zombie kind.
Eric
it's actually been happening a fair amount for about a month; even when they don't agree, they take the other's typical role. HMBC has been keeping GW's dirty little rumor secrets without spoiling them while Kan has been uncharacteristically upset with GW's decisions. i'm waiting on calling the ragnarok for when gwar comes back to YMDC and starts answering every question by quoting how the fluff tells you to play it.
Probably already been said (I don't want to wade through 9 pages to find out) but if that damn dirty ape is responsible for destroying any of my vehicles then I'm totally screaming "YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP! DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!"
Andilus Greatsword wrote:Probably already been said (I don't want to wade through 9 pages to find out) but if that damn dirty ape is responsible for destroying any of my vehicles then I'm totally screaming "YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP! DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!"
Don't forget to drop to your knees and throw your arms up dramatically.
augustus5 wrote:The GK model line just keeps getting worse. First the horrible toy-like dreadknight and now orange space apes? What a way to ruin what was once one of the coolest factions in the 40k universe.
Agreed. At least they did quite well with the PAGK and GKT.
To be honest I don't mind the Jokearo. I like having odd models for random retinues, and I'll get more use out of it in Dark Heresy than I will in 40K (rules for a Jokaero couldn't be that hard to come up with).
What I don't like about it is the implementation. Whole units of these things rockin' 'round, blowing stuff up with digi-Lascannons? That's about as silly as being able to field a whole unit of Daemonhosts and have a Grey Knight IC join them.
Kanluwen wrote:Until Haines and Cavatore finish the job they started.
RUINING FLUFF GAMING!
Really? That’s their secret plan. I would have thought that if they went through the trouble of kidnapping Ward’s family, they’d have something more insidious in mind.
candy.man wrote:Really? That’s their secret plan. I would have thought that if they went through the trouble of kidnapping Ward’s family, they’d have something more insidious in mind.
It's Haines and Cavatore. They seem to have some kind of loathing for fluffy based armies, but love to wrap their powergaming antics under the auspices of 'fluff'.
I'm going to run units of Jokaeros with Razorback Las/Plas transports. Then, every time I blow up an enemy vehicle I'm going to jump around and make ape sounds. Whenever I lose a Jokaero, I'll scream in that high pitch ape sound and rub the model with the back of my finger while cooing. I'll be the guy everyone wants to play.
BrookM wrote:Maybe Kan and H.B. have switched bodies?
So much for that buddy cop movie though.
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Andilus Greatsword wrote:Probably already been said (I don't want to wade through 9 pages to find out) but if that damn dirty ape is responsible for destroying any of my vehicles then I'm totally screaming "YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP! DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!"
Don't forget to drop to your knees and throw your arms up dramatically.
MagickalMemories wrote:Fluff is malleable. If advances with time.
If it didn't (warning: AD&D reference), then Raistlin would still be captive of Takhisis and King Azoun would have never died.
Fluff changes so that it can advance. Otherwise, it just becomes stagnant and disinteresting.
I suddenly like you a lot more. That is all; carry on my good man.
MagickalMemories wrote:Fluff is malleable. If advances with time.
If it didn't (warning: AD&D reference), then Raistlin would still be captive of Takhisis and King Azoun would have never died.
Fluff changes so that it can advance. Otherwise, it just becomes stagnant and disinteresting.
I suddenly like you a lot more. That is all; carry on my good man.
Yes, however not all advances are good choices. Sometimes people try to fix somethign that isn't broken and the fluff as a whole suffers for it...
I'm pretty sure most of the people unhappy with the Jokaero's model are people who didn't know what they were supposed to look like. It's an orange space ape. That's exactly what Jokaero are.
Now as far as the rules are concerned, I did think it was a little "off" to have them so combat-capable, on top of the fact that nobody is supposed to be able to control (or capture) a Jokaero. I think it would have been better if they had simply added a lot of different effects to the unit (like the weapon mod table but even more extreme) and had some sort of risk-factor so that under certain circumstances the Jokaero would create a device that caused them to 'escape', effectively removing them from the game. Kinda like mini-fateweavers perhaps.
MagickalMemories wrote:
Fluff is malleable. If advances with time.
...
Fluff changes so that it can advance. Otherwise, it just becomes stagnant and disinteresting.
Except that 40K fluff doesn't advance and is stagnant. It changes - oh how does it change - but it does not change forward, it changes laterally (or in some cases backwards). The fluff isn't malleable, it is arbitrary, and can, will and has been changed at a whim.
40K has always retained it's minutes to midnight style of being 999.M41 and it will stay at 999.M41 forever more. And, because of that, anything new has to be shoe-horned (some might call it retconned) into the existing story. This is what's happening with all these new units in the recent Codices, and it is what will continue to happen.
If you want to see fluff advancing, you look at BattleTech. If you want to see fluff staying right where it is getting more and more bloated as things are inserted into the time line, you look at 40K.
Xca|iber wrote:I'm pretty sure most of the people unhappy with the Jokaero's model are people who didn't know what they were supposed to look like. It's an orange space ape. That's exactly what Jokaero are.
warboss wrote: i'm waiting on calling the ragnarok for when gwar comes back to YMDC and starts answering every question by quoting how the fluff tells you to play it.
Damn, wb.
I laughed so hard.
That's probably the funniest thing I've read on this site in a month, at least!
Xca|iber wrote:I'm pretty sure most of the people unhappy with the Jokaero's model are people who didn't know what they were supposed to look like. It's an orange space ape. That's exactly what Jokaero are.
What saddens me most about putting an orangatang into 40k is that people are going to buy the model. This will only encourage Matt Ward to continue his destructive swath through the 40k setting.
Breotan wrote:What saddens me most about putting an orangatang into 40k is that people are going to buy the model. This will only encourage Matt Ward to continue his destructive swath through the 40k setting.
Except that Matt Ward isn't responsible for the Jokaero. As far as I'm aware, he started there way after 1st ed.
*Possibly not directly. It's not as if other members of the Dev team don't have input on the books that are being made, and the bean-counters upstairs certainly have a say in what gets made (it's the reason we have 'Generic Daemons' in the so-called 'Chaos' Marine Codex).
H.B.M.C. wrote:In that case, yes, it would have been better to get an all-inclusive Inquisition Codex. Even the 'Wave' releases are pretty obvious then - Wave 1, GKs (Special Chars, Termies, Power Armour, Dreadknight. Wave 2, Sisters (Special Chars, Sisters Box, Serephim Box, plastic Exorcist). Wave 3, Deathwatch (Special Chars, DW Termies, DW Power Armour, [something else]).
Hahaha, come on HBMC, listen to yourself. If GW released a whole range of models only on a delayed wave, you would be up in arms throwing nail bombs at GW's corporate offices.
I think the concept of Wave Releases is actually a good one - ensuring a good 2 years worth of staggered releases for a particular army type rather than a giant release dump and then nothing for 5 years.
My issue with Wave Releases is much the same as all the issues I have with GW's litany of great concepts - the terrible execution of said concepts. With Wave Releases as they are now we never know what's coming out or when (or even if!). Look at the Tyranids - there are several huge gaps in that Codex as far as units go, and no clue as to when or even if they will be filled. That is a problem.
If there was a firm idea (or, dare I say it, a promise) that all these units would get models released within 2 years of the Codex's release, then it would be fine. As it stands I'll take one release every 5 years and then nothing in the years between over staggered releases that come seemingly at random and huge gaps in the model line. I played through 2nd Ed, where it was like that all the time. It's not fun to do it again.
And as for this specific idea, the only people throwing nail-bombs would be Sisters players. As we all know there isn't a larger group of 40K players with such a self-absorbed sense of entitlement than Sisters players.
MagickalMemories wrote:
Fluff is malleable. If advances with time.
...
Fluff changes so that it can advance. Otherwise, it just becomes stagnant and disinteresting.
Unless of course the fluff doesn't advance. There is a difference between going "Oh yes, Adept marcus over here figured out a way to control the Jokaero. Praise the Omnissiah!" and "And for no discernable reason... Space Monkeys!"
It also, unless a very good reason is given, does NOT explain why the hell the Inquisition uses xenotech. Sorry. Heresy. Unless a good reason is given. But without a good reason given, it IS unfluffy and silly.
And as for this specific idea, the only people throwing nail-bombs would be Sisters players. As we all know there isn't a larger group of 40K players with such a self-absorbed sense of entitlement than Sisters players.
It all really depends on what week of the month it happens to be...
With all of the interest in Jokero I thought that I would mention the plight of the orangutans, who are an endangered species. They once lived across southern Asia, but now their only remaining habitats are on the islands of Borneo and Sumatra. Deforestation and poaching have drastically reduced their numbers in the past few decades. Scientists estimate that there are only about 7,000 Sumatran orangutans left in the wild. They are hunted for their meat and other body parts which are believed to have medicinal properties. Infants are sought after as pets. Poachers shoot the eyes of the mothers with large caliber air rifles, and then slaughter the helpless animals so they can capture their babies. It is truly tragic what people have done to one of our closest relatives in the animal kingdom.
spaceelf wrote:With all of the interest in Jokero I thought that I would mention the plight of the orangutans, who are an endangered species. They once lived across southern Asia, but now their only remaining habitats are on the islands of Borneo and Sumatra. Deforestation and poaching have drastically reduced their numbers in the past few decades. Scientists estimate that there are only about 7,000 Sumatran orangutans left in the wild. They are hunted for their meat and other body parts which are believed to have medicinal properties. Infants are sought after as pets. Poachers shoot the eyes of the mothers with large caliber air rifles, and then slaughter the helpless animals so they can capture their babies. It is truly tragic what people have done to one of our closest relatives in the animal kingdom.
I can feel little remorse for a species who, in a mere 40,000 years hence, will have evolved to the point that they are able to turn bottle caps and bits of string into lascannons and personal teleporter arrays.
H.B.M.C. wrote:He's responsible* for bringing it back.
*Possibly not directly. It's not as if other members of the Dev team don't have input on the books that are being made, and the bean-counters upstairs certainly have a say in what gets made (it's the reason we have 'Generic Daemons' in the so-called 'Chaos' Marine Codex).
You know the funniest part?
The bean-counters aren't actually why we have 'generic Daemons'.
It's Alessio Cavatore. His stated 'design goal' was to move Chaos Space Marines away from being 'Legion heavy' to 'Traitor heavy'.
