So, its been a couple of weeks now since the solids hit the air conditioning and the nerdrage seems to have cooled from volcano-level boil to a mere furious simmer, so I thought I'd do a quick poll.

For those who have been living under a rock and don't know why I'm asking this question, GW has in the last 2 weeks:
1. Changed to a cheaper casting material yet increased prices up to 30%
2. Embargoed independant retailers from selling outside of Europe to force people in the rest of the world to pay much higher prices locally
3. **Disclaimer, rumour only** GW want to force independant retailers to only sell at RRP and not offer discounts
4. Issued a C&D to a company for making a model whose head is apparently too similar to the head of a model GW haven't made for 15 years (a minor point in the grand scheme of things, but still...)
5. Enforced total secrecy on all new releases, no more than 1 weeks warning of new product, WD subscribers to not get the magazine until after it is on sale in shops

For myself, this 2 week gakstorm has finally driven me away from GW after 23 years of loyal (if increasingly frustrated) custom - I feel genuinely gutted but you have to draw a line somewhere. Following a chat with the other guys I play with regularly, we're all going to start something new (not decided what yet - Warmahordes is current favourite) so thats at least 4 customers lost.

We all know that only losing customers will force GW to change, but how many of you will actually give up?

I went OMG WILL NEVAR BUY FROM GW EVAAAAAAAAAAR AGAIN when I first heard the news, but I probably will...

I've got so much stuff to paint that it'll last me for the next 15 years or so. I haven't bought anything GW related since I ordered something from Maelstrom, storm, whatever, last June. Now that GW has decided to stop the cheap route to buy their stuff, I'll blow my cash on something else. Where I am now a 1/35 RC Tiger Tank is LESS than a 16 man regiment box for WFB. I'll still paint the GW stuff I have and show it off, but I don't see myself buying anymore of their stuff.

I have two independent characters to get for my 1500pt BA army, then...

I'm done.

However, I'm quietly confident that this embargo won't last long, as someone, somewhere will get around it. At which point if i have finished all my painting projects i'll get some more.

*goes back underground...

While the concious decision to stop buying GW stuff (for now) came from the recent string of news my last purchase from GW was 7 or 8 months ago anyway (colors not counted).

So, yeah. I´ll concentrate my hobby budget on Warmachine for now. Maybe I´ll buy something from GW again once I finished my other GW stuff. That´s in the more or less far future, though.

I'm not so much 'quitting' GW, just moving to other areas (more deserving of my disposable income) until GW get their act together.

I mean, I love the GW 'hobby' what I don't like is the business decisions the company is currently making. I have enough hobby projects on the go at the moment to keep me going for a while (1500pts of Orks, 1000pts Skaven, Mordheim Zombie Pirates, Dystopian Wars EotBS) so there will be very little spending on models in the near future anyway.

I will still buy my paints from GW, simply because I like their colours and the quality is pretty good in my opinion, and the brushes are quite a good quality for the price (YES I can get much better brushes, NO I am not a decent enough/dedicated enough painter to warrant dropping a load of money on a Windsor&Newton). But no actual models until they get themselves sorted.

I'd pretty much stopped before this point having not bought anything "new" for quite some time but the latest price rise along with everything else has pretty much put the last nail in the coffin for me.

I may buy the odd thing from them in the future, but I'm going to move more into other figure ranges and display models.

I'm no longer purchasing GW products anymore because of these recent fiascos - instead I'm getting into Warmachine, so they'll be getting the money that would have instead gone towards a new Dark Eldar army. I'll not stop playing the game, since I've got around 2000 points of built Orks (with a Stompa and a Kustom Battle Fortress on the docket) so I've got plenty to keep me occupied in the meanwhile, as well as 500 points of built and painted Lizardmen for Fantasy. So unless GW makes some drastic changes, I think I'm done with them. It'll take something really fantastic to try and bring me back from this mess.

I'll spend the same money. That will obviously mean I get less for my money, hey that's life. 40K is just a part of my gaming hobby along with Board Games and Role-Playing Games.

Just going to make a few more purchases to flesh out my IG more, but thats about it. I will keep playing for a long while yet, no reason to get rid of my army after taking just over a year to build it, but my spending will definitly tail off. Anyhow, this is just giving me an excuse to get back into PnP RPG's again since I've more free money for books since i'm not spending it on mini's or paint.

Done my last order. GW can get fethed.

Well to be honest I had already stopped buying from them for several months last year...I didn't start up again until the Dark Eldar release, in which case I not only started buying but I was buying gak at full retail from my "local" store. Not only because I wanted to support the Dark Eldar release since it had been over a decade since the last one, but because the prices actually seemed somewhat reasonable for the most part. I can pay $25 for 10 warriors/wyches and $33 for a raider isn't too bad (although I'm still kind of annoyed that a ravager costs $50..for one extra sprue). Single models are still insane, but $15 for an archon was much better than $20+ for some characters. What I really liked was the $30 incubi, those are some pretty nice looking models and the price was almost too good to be true. It still would have cost well over $100 to get two units of them, but for GW that's on the cheaper side...

But seriously, all the crap that's happened just this past week is almost too much to take in at once. Not just the price increases (seriously, this has to stop eventually, it's getting harder and harder to justify spending money on this bs...oh yeah, and those reasonably-priced DE models, not so much anymore. I knew that wouldn't fething last), but this stupid embargo thing too, and then there's the blatant LIES with Citadel "Finecast" where they think if they keep telling us they're more detailed over and over then eventually we'll believe it (since I'm not blind yet I don't, and won't), when it's obviously nothing but a blatant cost-cutting measure and they're reaching pretty far into the barrel for excuses to justify the increased cost.

And I think what really tops it all off is this "no news until a week before" nonsense. GW's "advertising" was already a god damn joke, and just when you think they can't get any worse, they do it. It seriously feels like they were browsing Dakka for a few months, reading all of our complaints, and then said "Oh, you don't like the Incoming! e-mails huh? Fine then, we won't say ANYTHING until the week before then! Take that you fething douchebags!" That's what this is, GW is trolling us.

So now I have to ask myself if it's worth feeding the troll. I'm going to try and finish my Dark Eldar army and then I'm calling it quits. At least until they can pull their head out of their ass and come back down to earth for a bit. I have plenty of other hobbies I can spend money on, so if GW doesn't want it there are plenty of others who do.

No, i'm not even gonna pretend i want to.

No. Just cutting down a lot though.

I'll mainly just be mixing it up. I'm only recently back to the game and would like to finish just the one army but my days from buying from store are limited i think, will be using wayland as i'm fortunate enough to live in the UK.

It has encouraged myself and a couple of diehard GW friends of old to buy some Warmachine/hordes and dust off the D&D 3.5 stuff though as a side line so it seems to have been good for the tabletop diversity i guess ^^

Short answer:
Yes

Long answer:
You can find me between Pig Iron Productions and Infinity: the Game

Due to the current GW business practice's im dropping them like a hot potato. Recently took delivery of 30 Mantic Elves, so that is where my disposable income is going now.

Unless GW sort themselves out quickly, they will never have my money again.

Leigen_Zero wrote:I'm not so much 'quitting' GW, just moving to other areas (more deserving of my disposable income) until GW get their act together.

I mean, I love the GW 'hobby' what I don't like is the business decisions the company is currently making. I have enough hobby projects on the go at the moment to keep me going for a while (1500pts of Orks, 1000pts Skaven, Mordheim Zombie Pirates, Dystopian Wars EotBS) so there will be very little spending on models in the near future anyway.

I will still buy my paints from GW, simply because I like their colours and the quality is pretty good in my opinion, and the brushes are quite a good quality for the price (YES I can get much better brushes, NO I am not a decent enough/dedicated enough painter to warrant dropping a load of money on a Windsor&Newton). But no actual models until they get themselves sorted.

+1


Also OP you forgot the WD F&*k around

It's possible to stop buying GW products without leaving the game. My IG army is 80% non-GW.

My last purchase was last month. After buying their stuff for the last 24 years, I have an adequate supply of them (and four armies in excess of 4500pts (two are actually in excess of 12,000pts).

I can happily play with them without adding any more to them at least until the next rules edition.

My SM army which has weathered changes since RT, will survive mostly unscathed. There'll be some new units that I don't need to get (I don't play 40k tourneys so the 'meta' game is irrelevant), but until they change things so that a tac marine no longer has a bolt gun as a basic weapon, they'll *ahem* soldier on.
My Eldar have likewise weathered changes from Rt until now. The aspects are more or less as they were from 1990 (points and some gear changes, but essentially, the basic aspect warrior is unchanged in terms of equipment).

I gotta admit, I love GW models and the 40K game. There's no other table top game like it that I play or enjoy. But the marketing strategy is an insult to its customers and the ever increasing prices are worse than petrol in the UK!!!

I buy nothing from the stores and very very little from their website (just the direct only stuff) and increasingly I just buy it on ebay (they can't stop me doing that!) rather than the discounted retailers.

Its just not practical. And as much as this new matieral is meant to be better - I don't like it. And I'm not paying more for it. If its not up to scrutiny or sampling before its big release then they're probably hoping that people won't notice that they're paying more money for a cheaper model thats more fragile.

Rant over - GW you've been great but until you reduce your prices (if such a thing is ever possible) you're not worth it anymore....

Stopped buying GW models last year, when the last price rise cam into effect. I have bought one or two terrain pieces and some army books since but that's been the sum of it.

I will continue to play Fantasy (using Mantic miniatures) and 40K using my existing armies but as of now, I am no longer purchasing anything from GW in any shape or form.

Also, I am starting up Warmachine as an alternative.

We get thread after thread every year with people saying they are quitting and boycotting GW etc, but this time round I think a critical mass has been reached. Just take the Facebook responses and comments left - I have not hitherto seen such amounts of ire directed at GW and in such volume. There have always been dissenting voices but rarely have they spoken with a unified voice. This time round, I think GW have pushed too far and I think the next few financial reports will make for interesting reading.

I was going to get a new Army, but I think I'm going to hold off for now. This is really a huge put off. I'll have to see how the Necron Release goes, since that's one of my armies, but I doubt I'll be picking up the 4th army I was planning anytime soon.

So, in short, Depending on how the Necron Release goes, I suspect I'll be spending a lot on that, but other than that and the odd model or so, I probably won't be picking up much more.

I also have noticed that filbert... every year we have prices adjustments and some people do reach a breaking point but this year I have never seen nothing quite like this. Never seen so many and so much complaints in all the years I have been around... and neither I remember a ceo responding online to the complaints.

I've just seen the prices on GW's Finecast for Tomb Kings:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16700037a
£22.50 for an army book and £70 for a plastic battalion!
That's not anything to do with Finecast, either.

I'll still be buying GW, but not from GW. And, when the prices go up, not as much.

Paints, bases, books etc only - rest will be from ebay!

Well, if I were GW, looking at this thread and the poll, I'd say they will be doing fine in the future. Add to the general "break even" between those who say they're leaving against those who will continue, the fresh new customers they always seem to bring in, and GW may just have done it again.

While I appreciate that not everyone on Dakka has taken part in this poll, however given all the ranting that has been indulged in during the last few weeks, I'm mildly surprised by the results.

I was going to start a Bad Moonz/Evil Sunz ork waaagh but not now...

In the last twelve months, GW has sold me two brushes and three pots of paint.
And the paint was only because, I want them all the same colour.
Everything else was S/H off ebay, from people who where giving up the hobby.
Even my glue was from an independent shop.

I have for the last 8 months only being buy a few things from them. Mostly paint and Black Library books with the occasional box of Minis.

But even then the last thing I purchased direct from GW was the Grey Knights Codex back in April.

I may still get the odd mini from them (there is some BFG stuff I want) but for now, unless I can get a job with £14k a year I will look into other companies and try something new.

Already cut back severly a few months ago.
Stopped completely now. I'm currently tidying up my work room and relieving it of any GW stuff. Funny how much (unopened) stuff gathers in the room of a converter over the years. Oh well, I'll store it somewhere, maybe sell it, maybe pick it up once the IP got eaten by some bigger fish. Currently, I get sick when I look at it. Oh well, new dawn, space for new projects!

Delephont wrote:Well, if I were GW, looking at this thread and the poll, I'd say they will be doing fine in the future. Add to the general "break even" between those who say they're leaving against those who will continue, the fresh new customers they always seem to bring in, and GW may just have done it again.

While I appreciate that not everyone on Dakka has taken part in this poll, however given all the ranting that has been indulged in during the last few weeks, I'm mildly surprised by the results.

Because as we all know internet polls are accurate.

I will continue to buy GW stuff but it will be 2nd in the priority list with Flames of War being 1st but I've nearly got a full army already and not even spent £100 yet!

I do enjoy 40k at the end of the day and me and my friends have some great games and overall times so I won't be stopping but just cutting back.

Sidstyler wrote:

Delephont wrote:Well, if I were GW, looking at this thread and the poll, I'd say they will be doing fine in the future. Add to the general "break even" between those who say they're leaving against those who will continue, the fresh new customers they always seem to bring in, and GW may just have done it again.

While I appreciate that not everyone on Dakka has taken part in this poll, however given all the ranting that has been indulged in during the last few weeks, I'm mildly surprised by the results.

Because as we all know internet polls are accurate.

The accuracy of a poll depends in a large part on the sample size - I put the poll on about 4 hours ago and its already at nearly 100 respondants - I'll be more interested to see how the results are looking tomorrow evening (to give people living in all time zones a chance to log on after work).

It's prob not going to affect my collecting. I'm too much of an addict to stop collecting pretty models, and anyway, I jump between 4-5 systems so I get regular breaks from gw games

Im not affected. I'm going to continue buying till we get a decent alternative to 40k with a similar style.

Nothing cartoony and nothing that looks uber generic.

Won't really affect my buying habits. I'm going to finish out my current army (O&G) but after that I won't buy much more than the occasional blister or (rarely, maybe once a year) box.

Although if I do decide to start a new army, it will probably be Warmachine or Hordes, for several reasons, not all related to GW's practices.

I've got the urge to get one of those Smog 1888 minis for quite some time now. Perhaps this GW situation will be my excuse to pick up the odd Smog mini ...

On the other hand and since I know myself, there will be the occasional GW / FW buy from time to time, their new miniatures look really nice.

I will be cutting back.
I will be buying the last of my WoC at some point, and it's foolish to say I will never buy from GW again. They may well release a miniature that I think is good value, and if they do I will buy it if I want it. I think that they have made a lot of their stuff bad value though, and I will be looking at alternatives for next projects, though I may use the occaisional GW model if it fits well. This is a change from my previous stance where my GW armies were GW only.

Gone, done and dusted, tata cocker, so long and thanks for all the pish.

Will I stop baying GW miniture - No
Will I increase my hobby budget - No more likely to reduce due to other demand (house hold bills etc)
Am I looking at alternaives - Yes. Indendant stores and other gaming system.

Will they make more money out of me - NO

Stopped years ago. 13 years ago to be exact.

Naff rules and silly figures.

"I have stopped buying from them because of recent events"

After 23 years, I am done patronizing GW with my monies... Off to other gaming companies to fill my war gaming hobby needs.

OMGOMGOMG THESE PRICE RISES DID IT FOR ME THEY THREW ME OVER THE EDGE AND NOW I SEE GW FOR THE EVIL B*****DS THEY ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, MY GOD WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT A PRICE RISE WOULD FINALLY MAKE ME SEE THE LIGHT? SCREW YOU GW I ALWAYS HATED YOU ANYWAY IT'S NOT LIKE I'VE BEEN A LONG-TERM FAN OF YOUR WONDERFUL WARHAMMER UNIVERSE ANYWAY.

I've converted over to historicals over the past 4 years. While that has included Warhammer Ancients Battles, GW has made every effort to make sure that no additional copies of the game are sold. At this point, the only worthwhile product GW sells is Devlan Mud...

I own three armies well north of 10,000pts, one more solidly at 3000pts (some still unbuild), a chaos terminator based Loganwing (2500pts), ~2000pts of tau, and my all paladin GK army (1850!)

The only 40k armies I own nothing (or no more than a squad or two) for are Dark Eldar, Demons, Necrons, BT and sisters (unless I borrow my 60+ stormtroopers). Those armies either 1) dont' interest me, or 2) I'm waiting for new models/rules.

So, my purchasing (which is mostly used anyway) really isn't that tied to what GW does. If GW releases an army that looks good, plays well, and is fun... I'm buying it. Until then, i'll continue filling in gaps.

RanTheCid wrote:I've converted over to historicals over the past 4 years. While that has included Warhammer Ancients Battles, GW has made every effort to make sure that no additional copies of the game are sold. At this point, the only worthwhile product GW sells is Devlan Mud...

Can I Like this post a million times???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nah, I'll still spend my gaming budget, its actually for the better because it'll mean I'll get more done. I find the rage quiters entertaining considering they are all jumping ship to GW-lite, its like trading up crack for worse looking crack but makes you feel better

Yep, I'm done. Last ever GW purchase was the entire HH series from Amazon. The money gee-dub would've recieved from me over summer is getting spent on starting up Warmahordes and some Mantic stuff.

I will continue to buy from them, but not as much as before

I was driven away from the full price stuff by last year's price rise.

If GW make some awesome Tau models (e.g. Orca gunship) I will buy them.

We are attempting to circumvent the recent issues at present.

Please direct all input here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/371626.page

Said it on other posts, I'm finishing up my current army project (hit a few boxes already before increases, have a few more to get TODAY!!!) then I'm done. I'm also doing a lot of converted models because GW hasn't made some of the models I need yet and the others are so over costed it's insulted...even if they are so good....

I've jumped the boat, my Cryx army is going strong.

I will continue to play warhammer 40k with my friends with our mostly complete armies but I'm not buying anymore GW products.

I have enough unpainted GW product to keep me busy for years, and I'm switching over to Vallejo paints because they have really impressed me with their quality.

I think my gaming group is going to dive into warmachine or infinity and see what those systems are like.

So long GW... it was fun while it lasted.

Yep, GW has shot and would probably continue shooting themselves in the feet for the next few months. Ive got several Independent Characters to buy for my BA army, after that no more until something fantastic enough pops up for me to purchase.

GW doesn't care if I spend money on them or not. Based on their
business model, any dollar I spend is a bonus. I've spent most of
my money in recent years on Privateer Press. I don't know if I
would have spent that money on GW if I hadn't, but I do know
that I no longer buy entire armies in one go.

I like to bitch and Moan about the price increase as much as the next guy, but all this isn't really going to affect my purchases. It will affect my LGS though. I really like to buy things from them to show my support but with the price increases I will have to take all my larger orders to the net. In all honesty the hike isn't really a deal breaker as long as it's still 20% off.

As I've said elsewhere, I did have a new O&G WFB army planned. However now, due to a combination of my location (meaning I can no longer mail order at a reasonable price), and the price increase, I've shelved the project. If I were being brutally honest with myself, the thought of painting and modelling a block of 50 orc infantry also gave me the feeling of being stood at the base of a mountain. I had to remember I do this hobby because I enjoy it, it shouldn't be an endurance event!

I've now decided to switch to Infinity, on the strength of both recommendations from a friend and comments on this forum. I'll still continue with my 30k World Eater army, but it's going to be purchased exclusively through bits sites and ebay, so my GW spending is going to be cut to a minimum. I'm even going to try out P3 paints, I've been so fethed off with the whole episode.

Support your LGS by buying non GW Josh

As for "ragequitting"
Nah
very calm, rational and happy about it
So there is no need to shout Henners

I only bought directly from GW once - the rest has been from discount online resellers and individual sellers on Ebay. Even with that, I haven't bought a single new model in... I'm not even sure, actually. It's been at least a year. I'm more interested in starting up Infinity than I am in expanding 40k, currently, which is part of the reason I won't nerdrage at GW, even though I don't agree with their policies, new and not so new. Whether those policies influenced my desire to branch into Infinity is debatable, but not impossible.

I've only got one foot in the door at this point.

Starting a Vampire Counts WHFB army next month, and most of that money is going to be spent on Mantic Miniatures to be honest

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Support your LGS by buying non GW Josh

As for "ragequitting"
Nah
very calm, rational and happy about it
So there is no need to shout Henners

I will still buy paint, brushes, dice, single kits and whatnot through my LGS, but when I need to get a bunch of stuff at once I can't pass up 20% off.

Ravenous D wrote: I find the rage quiters entertaining considering they are all jumping ship to GW-lite, its like trading up crack for worse lookingcrack but makes you feel better

Doesn't that depend on what people have traded their GW "hobby" for? I can say, hand on heart, that the systems I have moved on to are, in my opinion, far better looking than GW products.....of course, like your statement, that's just my opinion.

Second to that, I have the utmost respect for the "rage quitters" as you call them, at least they're honest to themselves and they are prepared to stand up for what they think is right.

I'd sooner shake the hand of someone who quits GW for a "lesser" product in order to make their point, then someone who hates being treated like rubbish, but is too weak willed to pull themselves away.

Delephont wrote:

Ravenous D wrote: I find the rage quiters entertaining considering they are all jumping ship to GW-lite, its like trading up crack for worse lookingcrack but makes you feel better

Doesn't that depend on what people have traded their GW "hobby" for? I can say, hand on heart, that the systems I have moved on to are, in my opinion, far better looking than GW products.....of course, like your statement, that's just my opinion.

Second to that, I have the utmost respect for the "rage quitters" as you call them, at least they're honest to themselves and they are prepared to stand up for what they think is right.

I'd sooner shake the hand of someone who quits GW for a "lesser" product in order to make their point, then someone who hates being treated like rubbish, but is too weak willed to pull themselves away.

It's really not about being "Too Weak". 40k Is not life or death, it's a hobby, and a Hobby that I enjoy so I will continue to buy product and play. I have a decent paying job that allows me to buy the stuff whether or not they raise the price so whatever. Boycott and switch over to other game systems if you like, but honestly who cares? This isn't healthcare we are talking about...

I firmly stopped with WFB when 8th edition came out. I have no intention to purchase any WFB products moving forward until a new rules edition. So that's probably 2-3 years away.

I moved back to 40k this month. But really have no need to buy any newer models. I have obtained the bikes I need for a Ravenwing army, which is more of a personal army / goal. I have a CSM army that was 1750 from 2 years ago. That will do fine. I have enough marines to build if needed, and I have enough lesser demons. I have no problem playing. But minus paints, I think i'm done purchasing from them as a store.

I will support my LFGS. I needed a few odds and ends for Bike parts, so I visited and purchase 1 box from them, then 1 from GW as I was playing in a tournment. This is an exception: I have a personal feeling if you play in a tournment you should purchase something. Minus that I moved onto WMHD.

I'm not saying i'm quitting, to often I here that from people and my response is just play with what you have. Its the perfect opportunity to be more mindful with ones own spending given our present financial issues in the US.

Exactly, it just stems from laziness, if you really like something you find the way to make it work for you in the best way possible. Everything you do in life is related, the effort you put into anything speaks volumes of your character.

Me for example, I dont pay a damn thing for 40k, between commissions and my huge discount at a local shop all I'm really giving up is a little time.

Am I not happy with GW over price rises? Sure, but guess what? Gas and Food prices are skyrocketing too, so maybe it means people should start getting smarter instead of asking for hand outs or jumping ship to the exact same thing with the illusion that its better. 90% of Warmahordes players Ive met seem to have overwhelming daddy issues towards GW like they took a dump on your car or something.

You can play 40k and hate GW at the same time and not give them a dime, you just have to use your head and put something that no one seems to have these days into it; Commitment. Share books, recast models (not for sale so totally legal) and finish models before you buy more!

I mean how many armies and things were you guys buying? Like holy **** guys, if you are blowing more then $1000/year on wargaming in general and you cant afford it then maybe its a good time to accept reality and live within your means instead.

I have no sympathy for people that live paycheque to paycheque.

I guess quite a few people are like me, they didn't suddenly snap and 'quit' they have just let their purchases run down to almost nothing. The last Games Workshop I had were a couple of forgworld figures in March and before that were the Sanguinary Guard that my wife got me for christmas and I think before that I bought Commander Pask for one of my Leman Russes last summer. That's nearly a year's worth of purchases. I didn't used to be like that but I just started making a pass on GW and buying other stuff. I'm hoping to get a Celestine for my wife on a visit my old LGS this coming week but otherwise have no plans to buy GW for the foreseeable.

On the other hand, I have some great Doctor Who figures that need painting, there's plenty more to do in this hobby without picking up any GW. My main beef with GW isn't their prices, the current price rise came as no surprise at all, but I don't like they way other companies are being molested by them with C&Ds and other aggressive nonsense. Because then I get the impression that I can't avoid them, I can't even go to a different company without them trying to stamp on my toys.

The only stuff I buy will be second hand marine stuff; roll on Claymore in august! I was looking forward to the Necron new stuff but I won't be parting with any money for them.

I was already pretty much done buying for my two armies before the recent announcements, so in that respect nothing has changed. I'm still playing, painting and going to tournies.

It did make up my mind that I'm not going to start up a new army. I was considering slowly starting a GK or DE army with tourney winnings, but I've decided instead to just 'sell' my winnings at a discount to other players. I may buy some new kits if my armies ever get redone, but I won't be starting a new one.

Gosh, everyone's so angry.

The price rises that have been occurring in the last few years have definitely curtailed my spending with GW. More price rises will make that even more so the case. Plus, I have an irrational hatred of resin. Can't stand the stuff. So that's going to make an impact. They still make some really nice stuff though, so I'll pick up the odd thing. I guess I will be going quietly into that good night, not with sound and fury, but with an occassional sad look over my shoulder.

Of course, I'm not going to stop playing. I already have all these miniatures, that would be utterly moronic.

I was only looking to complete a second army (Blood Angels) and got my stuff in before price increases. The only things that I will probably ever get from GW in the future are DE-related (Voidraven, maybe a few kits here and there to supplement the 5000+ pts I already have), but I hope to spend tourney prize money on that rather than anything more out of pocket. I have zero interest in anything Finecast.

To be fair, I was probably looking to "retire" from buying new models before most of this stuff hit, but this pretty much sealed it.

Aye im out, 13 years of a crap company i always thought would get better, love 40k got two 5k armies and a 1500 so ill either keep them n play a bit or sell them dont care much tbh. Still going to be collecting minis but nothing from GW, hope that new games are as interesting/fun.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:So, its been a couple of weeks now since the solids hit the air conditioning and the nerdrage seems to have cooled from volcano-level boil to a mere furious simmer, so I thought I'd do a quick poll.

For those who have been living under a rock and don't know why I'm asking this question, GW has in the last 2 weeks:
1. Changed to a cheaper casting material yet increased prices up to 30%
2. Embargoed independant retailers from selling outside of Europe to force people in the rest of the world to pay much higher prices locally
3. **Disclaimer, rumour only** GW want to force independant retailers to only sell at RRP and not offer discounts
4. Issued a C&D to a company for making a model whose head is apparently too similar to the head of a model GW haven't made for 15 years (a minor point in the grand scheme of things, but still...)
5. Enforced total secrecy on all new releases, no more than 1 weeks warning of new product, WD subscribers to not get the magazine until after it is on sale in shops


We all know that only losing customers will force GW to change, but how many of you will actually give up?

It won't effect me that much at all. I don't purchase much anymore as I have enough to paint and assemble, plus I tend to buy others collections instead of buying new.


As for your points?

1. Does not bother me as it is mainly Special Characters ( as far as I know) so I did not really buy them in the first place. PLus it might make converting and kit bashing easier, so it might be worth it.
2. I live in the US so this does not effect me at all. Plus I already know of a complete and legal work around( depending on exact wording of the Terms) If i was Malstrom I could be selling back in the South in a matter of a week.
3. GW tried this years ago, and there is a reason they went away from it. Use to GW would make you get permission to have a sale on GW products.
4. Sorry, but if GW does not try to defend all of it's IP then it could lose ALL of it's IP So a company thats biggest asset is IP, must defend it at all cost.
5. This is their right. We as customers have not right to know what they are working on, or when this will be released. Do I like to know? Sure, but it does not mean I have to know.

Not trying to stand up for GW, but I just look at things from a realistic point of view.

.

Joshawa wrote:

Delephont wrote:

Ravenous D wrote: I find the rage quiters entertaining considering they are all jumping ship to GW-lite, its like trading up crack for worse lookingcrack but makes you feel better

Doesn't that depend on what people have traded their GW "hobby" for? I can say, hand on heart, that the systems I have moved on to are, in my opinion, far better looking than GW products.....of course, like your statement, that's just my opinion.

Second to that, I have the utmost respect for the "rage quitters" as you call them, at least they're honest to themselves and they are prepared to stand up for what they think is right.

I'd sooner shake the hand of someone who quits GW for a "lesser" product in order to make their point, then someone who hates being treated like rubbish, but is too weak willed to pull themselves away.

It's really not about being "Too Weak". 40k Is not life or death, it's a hobby, and a Hobby that I enjoy so I will continue to buy product and play. I have a decent paying job that allows me to buy the stuff whether or not they raise the price so whatever. Boycott and switch over to other game systems if you like, but honestly who cares? This isn't healthcare we are talking about...

Yeah but my comment wasn't necessarily aimed at you. If you read my comment carefully, I'm simple saying I respect those who don't agree with GW and jump the ship no matter what, as opposed to those who complain endlessly about GW but slavishly carry on buying.

From your post you seem to be in the catagory who isn't particulary bothered by GW strategies and have decided to carry on as normal. Fair play to you.....my comment wasn't directed at you at all.

I stopped buying GW stuff directly BEFORE it was cool.

I'll probably start buying for independant retailers for discount, only using the local GW for the odds and ends. Why? Because I still want to support the local store.

(The fact that my best mate's other half is the manager may be a slight influencing factor. She would stab me if I abandoned her ; ; )

Some of us can still afford these figures even at the higher prices.

However, its more a case of feeling stupid paying so much money for an army of plastic figures I still need to assemble and paint. There is just too little ROI since there are other companies making good miniatures.

So I will only purchase the occassional model that I REALLY like so as not to feel too silly.

I plan on continuing with GW.

I make all my 'big' purchases in the 'used' and 'trade' market anyway, I only buy new to get something specific and extra bits to convert with. You really can do well on a budget (of sorts!). I still think their stuff is the best looking and most interesting. I just fail to get interested in other systems (like WM) - maybe I will try them out sometime.

As a businessman, I can see that their price increase is important, since they WILL be selling less. All businesses have to raise their prices all the time. You have to. I do. What do you think is costing LESS for ANY company? Everything costs more - the only thing that can be cheaper (sometimes) is people, and you don't want to hire 'cheap' people!! Yikes! Wanna stay in business? You either 'grow' or 'go'. There is no such thing as 'just stay the same as you were years ago'. Won't work, can't happen.

I have given up any budding plans in my brain to start a WHFB army. Too much $$$ to start into it.

My fear is if they lose customers, they may fail to get new ones -- if the entry price is too high - and that affects my (and my son's) future pool of 40K opponents!

Oh well, no nerdrage from me yet... I just bought some great Battlefleet Gothic stuff from Bartertown!! Time to learn a new game!!

I hadn't bought anything for a good 6-7 months before this increase, happy to maintain my slow modelling pace. It has spurred me to buy a pair of Valkyries, but thats it now. Watch out for my (sparse) P&M blog detailing their creation.

I was considering several projects; creating an armoured regiment to compliment my airborne vets, a true-scale Relictors army, and starting a VC Bretonian themed army. These projects are all on indefinite hiatus as of the 28th.

Sorry GW, you've just priced me out of your market. Oh well, Johnny schoolboy will wander in and buy his first tactical squad and starter paint set to replace me.

I bought a can of black GW spray paint the other week. It was actually cheaper than the Army Painter spray. GW have now fixed that error. The last 'new' model I bought was a Brood Lord when they were first released.

Lost Boyz wrote:
My fear is if they lose customers, they may fail to get new ones -- if the entry price is too high - and that affects my (and my son's) future pool of 40K opponents!

That's where I am on this. The price hike doesn't affect me all that much directly. I can afford what I want. As the prices drive others out of the hobby and fewer new people bother to start the number of locally available opponents is going to dwindle. Once I can't get in games on a regular basis, I'll probably start fading out of the hobby and go back to making 1/35th scale tanks or just playing computer games.

I Stopped buying before all these events.

I will still scour eBay and trade for the minis and tanks I need to finish of my IG project (it won't get played but I cant leave a project unfinished and its only a commander, 3 chimeras and a few Russes from the finish).

I will still play the odd game but most of my stuff is being handed to my kids to play with, so they wont be needing to buy from GW either.

I haven't abandoned GW completely but they are not getting my cash directly, and I am playing their games systems even less.

Pretty soon I will be able to ignore any new HH releases from Black Library too.

Give me a month and I won't even be able to remember what my IG needed to hit.

There are a lot of reasons why I am not buying GW. But Honestly, Their particular niche no longer nourishes my gaming urges.

It doesn't change anything for me. I buy things very, very slowly and it takes me months to finish anything, so price hikes haven't caused me any issues. I hate them for sure, but they won't get in the way of my hobby. I love the Warhammer 40k universe and the conversion opportunities the range provides, so I like to think that I will amongst the last to jump ship. And when I do, it would also likely be my leave from the world of Wargaming entirely.

It's a hobby. Hobbies are expensive in general. Ask the Nitro RC car guys and RC Plane guys, they will drop your jaw with some of their parts and upgrade costs.

I trade on the Swap Shop when I can. I browse eBay occasionally.. but my local GW store (GW Marysville, WA) is run by, IMO, one of the best store manger/operators I have ever worked with, so I'm happy to give him my business and help ensure that his brick and mortar location stays open.

It might be a hobby but that doesn't mean to say it HAS to be expensive.
That sort of excuse just feeds GW's delusions into thinking that they can get away with unjustifiable prices.

And why in the world are you so happy to have to pay more? That is a strange attitude.
YAY prices up 20%
All this, "it is a niche porche luxury" is absolute bunkum.

Maybe coming to gaming late and having other interests helps put things into perspective. I have never known a company deal with its customer base in such a way.
For the customers go back and say whoopee hurt me some more please is a tad worrying.

Some of you guys need counselling!

I'm not -happy- to pay more, I'm just saying it's not exactly a world ending 20% price hike that will result in my abandoning 12 years of playing 40k. I love the game, I love the fluff, I love the models.

Complaining about the price hike isn't going to change anything. So why bother? Will it delay me starting my next army (Probably eldar)... maybe slightly.. but not any more than the price of gas and food and my utilities have delayed it as well.

I've been on a personal moratorium this year due to family issues. I'll see how I feel about it later. Got plenty of stuff to paint as is.

I'm stopping for the time being to see if it will have an impact. In the meantime, I'm using existing models to put together some Mordheim warbands for some fun.

To be honest, I've got enough models for 1000pt Fantasy and 40K armies and this is the kind of level I play at.

I only realisticly see myself buying something first hand from GW when I REALLY want to model and build it myself.

I will still be buying their stuff, but from other people. Mainly Swap Shop and Ebay.

Delephont wrote:Well, if I were GW, looking at this thread and the poll, I'd say they will be doing fine in the future. Add to the general "break even" between those who say they're leaving against those who will continue, the fresh new customers they always seem to bring in, and GW may just have done it again.

While I appreciate that not everyone on Dakka has taken part in this poll, however given all the ranting that has been indulged in during the last few weeks, I'm mildly surprised by the results.

Delephont, you poor analyst you. Only 24% of those polled (at time of writing) say they will continue buying at the same rate or greater. 59% will buy at a lower rate or not at all. Not a fantastic result for any company following a major overhaul of business practice.

Cottonjaw wrote:I'm not -happy- to pay more, I'm just saying it's not exactly a world ending 20% price hike that will result in my abandoning 12 years of playing 40k. I love the game, I love the fluff, I love the models.

Complaining about the price hike isn't going to change anything. So why bother? Will it delay me starting my next army (Probably eldar)... maybe slightly.. but not any more than the price of gas and food and my utilities have delayed it as well.

Complaining alone might not.
But not buying will, even if in a small way.

people are not just fed up with this rise, but the accumalation of rises and poor decisions
Like you say there is already a squeeze on hobby funds with the cost of living going up.
So this sort of decision is poor judgement, badly handled and mistimed.

No one said it is the end of the world, for some of us it is the end of our time with GW.
No whining, no regrets, just the way it is.
Doesn't mean I cannot feel for people that are upset by the events of last week.
And why shouldn't they be upset? Just cos we aren't?

What did it for me were three things:

1) Warhammer 40k Fifth Edition
2) Cost of premiun unit boxes. I cannot justify buying 10 models for 40 dollars. I made this decision when they released the plastic greatswords.
3) Cost and content of WD....

and then the recent news broke and I am not even phased because I am already done with the game.

I will keep my current buying trend going personally. I like the force that I have been working on and plan to keep them for a while, but my trend and extra money for that matter is going into my malifaux habbit and warmahordes. So, my spending level remain as it has been, an full army at a time, but it will be PP stuff now instead of GW stuff. For that matter what I was spending on GW stuff in 1 shot I can pick up a couple of WM armies , so a plus.

Pretty much. I was already having a hard time finishing my army, but now, it seems like it will be impossible. I didn't really want to leave, GW brought it upon themselves. When newer and younger gamers with lower budgets can't get in to the game for financial reasons, that's their fault.

Will probably be starting some other games soon.

I'd already bought a few tanks for my planned Sisters army, but if GW doesn't suffer enough to undo this damage, I'll be making it with AoW miniatures or not at all. I might send them a letter come November explaining just what I'd no longer be buying because of their greed.

I stopped buying from GW years ago, apart from wash and maybe a WD to wipe my butt on here and there I would never waste my money these days on such a pathetic company.

I'm of a mood to run out and place a very large order with GW, just as a result of reading this thread!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Done my last order. GW can get fethed.

Now you'll have time to get it all painted!

Yeah, who am I kidding...

H.B.M.C. wrote:GW can get fethed.

This sentiment would have been much more powerful if not prefaced with:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Done my last order.

Supporting 40K =/= supporting GW.

I love 40k and have met some really awesome people through playing it. I will continue to collect and paint the miniatures BUT they will be through online retailers/ebay/swaps only. I've already stocked up on Dettol for stripping and Vallejo for painting. I'm sorted for a long time!

L. Wrex

i'll continue to buy GW products for a large discount from people who have already purchased and badly painted them.

hemingway wrote:i'll continue to buy GW products for a large discount from people who have already purchased and badly painted them.

Silly 12 year olds

hemingway wrote:i'll continue to buy GW products for a large discount from people who have already purchased and badly painted them.

simple green plus tooth brush does marvelous things

I'm not leaving GW, we're just "on a break".


I can't believe I just made that reference...

In the words of The Clash...


"Balls to you GW, I ain't never coming back..."


Have more then I'll ever need, am falling back on Necromunda, Gorkamorka, and Mordhiem that I've had since thier release,and will be having a Out of GW sale here in the next couple of weeks.


Time to consolidate, liquidate, and ride the bear market out until leaner times...

Either GW takes the hint, continues the road to ruin, or takes the piss.... I don't care anymore.

I don't have the energy, the time, or the efforts anymore to rage against the machine.
I'm a gamer and painter, it took GW being toolish to remind me that they weren't the "Hobby" that I started, or need to be anything other then one of a number of games, hobbys, or efforts.


I'm the bum on the end of the bar..."Yeah, I used to play GW games, good times, man, good times..."


True independent games need my attention, now. You know, the ones that's minis are still only 2 to 3 bucks and the rules sets either free, or around twenty bucks or so.

Left or leaving? No, but it is the first time I've seriously looked at historicals, Infinity, and Anima. I do have a series of Dark Angels armies to finish, though the Krieg are getting halted and Tau idea might also be going to the gutter as well.

Ozymandias wrote:Yeah, who am I kidding...

I have no skill in painting and derive no joy from partaking in it. So sue me.

Scott-S6 wrote:This sentiment would have been much more powerful if not prefaced with

I have loyalty to those that show respect to their customers, hence my last order was through Maelstrom, as a thank you to them for all they have done and for being stuck in a situation not of their own creation. Surely you can understand that?

I'm basically cutting back big time. Was on the fence on whether I wanted to pull my Tomb Kings out for the new army book. After all this mess I decided to ebay my stuff and get back into Hordes once I finish painting my IG army. I don't need any models for it, just gotta paint it up. So I'll keep that and my complete DA army and spend new cash on Hordes or other games I think.

Yes and my only other friend who plays as well,and it stoped three others from starting the game.

I thanked them on their FB page for pricing me out. Now I can finally finish the huge backlog of figs I have from years ago.

I have a salamanders army that needs Vulkan and another drop pod, both of which I will be trying to buy as cheaply as possible. I may pick up a bit of Forgeworld over the summer, but that's it.

I'm taking a break from miniatures, but I'm planning on focusing on Warmachine/Hordes and Flames of War from now on, with some 6mm Fields of Glory due to the cheapness of 6mm armies.

I have been avoiding paying retail for awhile. I buy online, buy or trade for used or scratch build / kit bash.

I winding down on fantasy after 8th was such a failure. Still play 40k but not as much now.

Will only be adding to my current Space Cats omni marine chapter, Eldar and Dark Eldar forces as needed in the future. Pretty much set in what I need right now after that last Grey Knights Order.

I'm not buying any GW products because I already have all I need, and I don't want to start a new army just yet.

I will continue to buy, but mostly just paints. I'm so far behind on minis I need to paint anyway it isn't really an issue.

Wow, thanks for all the responses, guys - I hope the voting continues

If it goes above 1,000 votes that would be a justifiably large sample size to send to GW. They'll ignore it (probably) because hey, that's what they do - if I'm really lucky I may get a patronising reply...

I will still buy just not as much. Coming from some of my other hobby's this news is not just that bad to me.

Let's take paintball for example, I played tournament paintball for many years and over that time i watched as technology grew and the price of paintball's them selves got cheaper but everything else became vastly more expensive. When i started paint was $80.00-$120.00 a case and in one tournament you might use a case (2000 paintball's for those that don't play) and your normal "higher end" paintball gun was about $400.00 . Now last year when i quit ( and finally found time for wargaming) paint was about $40.00-$60.00 a case and you were going to use at least 3-4 case's . your " high end " gun was about $1200.00. Now don"t get me wrong with each price increase came new shiny technology but not enough to justify the increase.

So i guess for me at 20% increase on say $30.00 just does not seem like much but as i have a fixed budget it will mean less purchases.

The problem with comparing to other hobbies is that there is always going to be a certain amount of oranges to apples going on.

The issue is not wargaming vs <insert hobby here> and more GW vs <other wargaming company here>.

If a single company supplying any hobby treats its customers poorly or becomes unjustifiably more expensive than its competitors, then it opens itself to criticism just as GW has done when compared with other companies supplying the same hobby.

I'm sure if you're a Paintballer (to use voryn15's example) and 'Gun's Workshop' kept hiking its prices every year and trying to restrict the activities of independant suppliers or 3rd party companies, whilst becoming unduly secretive about its own activities, it would recieve criticism from that hobby community too.

It depends, does buying from Forgeworld count as buying from GW?

Sadly, Forgeworld is a part of Games Workshop Group PLC so yes, it does...

I am leaving GW because of the way they are conducting themselves. I don't begrudge them the right to make money, they are a buisness and that is why you make a buisness. When you treat you customers like garbage then I have an issue. If the decide to play nice again then sure, I will buy from them again. Until then though I am finished.

Lost Boyz wrote:I plan on continuing with GW.

I make all my 'big' purchases in the 'used' and 'trade' market anyway, I only buy new to get something specific and extra bits to convert with. You really can do well on a budget (of sorts!). I still think their stuff is the best looking and most interesting. I just fail to get interested in other systems (like WM) - maybe I will try them out sometime.

As a businessman, I can see that their price increase is important, since they WILL be selling less. All businesses have to raise their prices all the time. You have to. I do. What do you think is costing LESS for ANY company? Everything costs more - the only thing that can be cheaper (sometimes) is people, and you don't want to hire 'cheap' people!! Yikes! Wanna stay in business? You either 'grow' or 'go'. There is no such thing as 'just stay the same as you were years ago'. Won't work, can't happen.

I have given up any budding plans in my brain to start a WHFB army. Too much $$$ to start into it.

My fear is if they lose customers, they may fail to get new ones -- if the entry price is too high - and that affects my (and my son's) future pool of 40K opponents!

Oh well, no nerdrage from me yet... I just bought some great Battlefleet Gothic stuff from Bartertown!! Time to learn a new game!!

This was one of the more refreshingly objective posts out there.

You do raise a fear; I have been unable to get any of my university friends to start 40k, even when they've shown an interest. Why? Because they say it's too ridiculously expensive. My main criticism of GW is that they seem to rely on compulsive spoilt children to make massive one-off purchases whereas the real gamers seem to be a dying breed.

Henners91 wrote:the real gamers seem to be a dying breed.

no, real gamers just play real (affordable) games

I will buy more GW models however these will be 2nd hand.
I'll be moving to other paints as well.

I feel as a long time customer I've being taken for a mug for far too long, this last spate of business changes is the straw that broke this camels back.

If there was ever a reason to try out new systems then this is your in.

I am leaving GW mainly because of how they have been handling themselves the last few years. It's been a slow decline and quite frankly the company that I knew 11 years ago is not the same company now. The current events are the straw that broke the camel's back for me (the camel's back being repeatedly smashed by a sledge hammer wielding Mark Wells). I decided to cut my losses and move on to greener pastures. I doubt I will ever return to GW unless they do something radical (such as firing Matt Ward and releasing a new CSM codex by the end of next year).

I did my research into alternate games and have decided to get into Warmachine. The low model count and price as well as the greater tactical aspect and overall flexibility of Warmachine appeals to me. Privateer Press seems like a nice company and they remind me of how GW used to carry itself 11 years ago when I first joined the hobby (a company that puts its fans and the game first). I've recently purchased a 25 point starter Cryx force and have high hopes ahead of me.

Stella Cadente wrote:

Henners91 wrote:the real gamers seem to be a dying breed.

no, real gamers just play real (affordable) games

No true Scotsman...

Pretty much I am leavin GW, oh hello Wayland Games! Its pretty much a case of I will still play 40K and FB since I just started HE. Since all of my games take place in a GW store it has to be GW models, so until GW bring the prices down then Wayland Games will be getting my money.

I already know that GW gets a cut of the cash I give to Wayland Games, but the less they get from me the better.

The only full price I will be paying is if I cant get it cheaper elsewhere or some of the finecast models just to see what resin is actually like.

Although I am kind of angry at the fact the hobby that I love is being made so expensive, I have never really ever bought directly from GW, I've always used my FLGS and ebay (I'll probably use Ebay even more now). I am angry that GW is gving no love to the discount sites, but I also understand that they need to make money in order to keep it alive. GW is an "evil company" at times, but they are the company that makes 40k, so I'll stay with them, admittedly with less stuff bieng bought from them.

i stopped buying GW product over a year ago. They lost me as a customer. im all in Warmahordes and Malifaux now.

but i still have my GW armies.

No change here.

Yup

Even though my army I'm working on isn't really finished, I'm committed to boycotting Games Workshop. Now is the best time to do it (when everyone else is doing it), because it gives us a much better chance of being noticed by GW. That can only mean fairer prices and service for all of us.

The way I see it is this...

I can last longer without making any purchases than GW can last without making any sales

This is why I think everyone should stop buying, even if it is just for a few months. Be honest; all of us have plenty of stuff we could be getting on with, that we don't have to buy anything there for a few months. I've got enough minis to keep me going for years if I wanted to.

Even if you couldn't care less about boycotting GW, I would still urge you to just focus on your painting and converting for a few months instead of buying stuff at GW. If we all did this together, then in a few months we could all go back and buy the same stuff we have been meaning to at much more reasonable prices.

I know it isn't easy, new releases look so tempting etc... But it only takes one look at their new prices to remind you of why this needs doing. How about a little solidarity?

I considered getting involved with Warhammer and all that, but decided instead to stick with smaller 1/72 scale figures as they are cheaper, have more in a box, and are of a reasonable quality. A box of 48-50 troops or 1-2 tanks is usually about NZD$17, or roughly US$14, according to my currency converter. They are good for building up proxy armies, take up less space, and can be converted to look more like the real thing. Imperial Guard Tiger Tank, anyone?

I don't buy much from GW directly, aside from the paints, so this won't affect me as much in the long run.
Heck, I don't buy that much, period. Poor college student.

Bought the Krieg army I've always wanted, and now I've really got nothing else that I want from them anymore. Had I not been planning my Krieg for months now, I wouldn't have bought them either.

Too expensive to tempt me with any further armies, no more planned upgrades for my current armies, and too expensive to justify any impulse by anymore.

Sorry GW, I'm done.

In all honesty, I have enough Marines to last me a while in any case, so my overall spending habits wouldn't benefit GW, except a few things from /my LGS. It doesn't really help their cause that just about everything I need is already OOP or 3rd party stuff.

As far as my nerdrage, meh...

Done and done and never looking back.

I was wondering what all the fuss about the whole Finecast escapade was until I saw the prices.

So, let me get this straight GW. I'm now getting one extra Uruk-Hai Berserker / Crowwbowman in each pack, but paying almost double the price...

I'll keep playing at my club, because I love my Eldar, but I think Warmachine might become my primary source of wargaming purchases now.

Well, it looks like the voting is winding down now.

Thanks very much to all those who took the time to vote and post. For what its worth I'm writing my own letter to GW this weekend and will be including the results of this poll - that won't be until later today or tomorrow so there's still time if you haven't voted!

I will, of course, post any reply I get from GW so we'll see how they respond to some fairly persuasive numbers.

Thanks again, C_C

Fairly good sample though

I stopped buying GW games for years, I still play an occasional epic battle but for 28mm We are now playing FUBAR, where we can use any mini we like, We also don´t follow the official 40k background, We have our own look on 40K universe! (It sounds heretic...).
Anyway GW makes some great minis and I still buy some, but very chosen ones and very few, and if possible at an independent retailer!
We have a lot of 28mm stuff collected for years, but if I must to start now I think I will go for 15mm sci-fi!

Chimera_Calvin wrote:
For myself, this 2 week gakstorm has finally driven me away from GW after 23 years of loyal (if increasingly frustrated) custom - I feel genuinely gutted but you have to draw a line somewhere. Following a chat with the other guys I play with regularly, we're all going to start something new (not decided what yet - Warmahordes is current favourite) so thats at least 4 customers lost.

We all know that only losing customers will force GW to change, but how many of you will actually give up?

*raises hand* yup. Finecast was the final straw. I really didnt need the reviews, good or bad, to make that decision. I dont want resin/plastic models. I like metal. Correction, I love it. It has weight and feel to it, it has value and it holds up very well. I have a ton of metal models. GW and reaper and other.

SO I dropped a bunch of money on warmachine faction, lining up what in my basement has to get sold and whats getting put away. Sad, because I was looking folward to a SOB release, but if they release them in finecast, I wont buy it.

For me it's dependant on my local group. There's quite a few people in the surrounding area who exclusively play Games Workshop games. If we can get more on the WarmaHordes kick a small number of us is getting into, I'll probably drop from GW altogether. Play the occasional game with my current armies as they are, and switch to giving Privateer Press my business.

But, unfortunately, it doesn't do any good to switch games if no-one else is playing, so if we can't get more WarmaHordes people than I'll probably still buy the occasional bit from GW just to keep things different.

That's the only way to do it. Remember at one time (a long time ago!) no-one played GW games, but the popularity of the game (because of both it's accessibility and style) made it become the common game to play. Run some intro games with friends if you have the minis, I think any of the games like WarmaHordes/Infinity/FoW and the like will pull in new players when they see the game.

I think WarmaHordes has already hit the 'tipping point' of becoming a huge international game which, while not anything like as well known as GW's stuff, is getting there and getting much more recognition. This latest 'push' from GW means that some of the others, Infinity and the like, might well be pushed into that category as well soon.

Henners91 wrote:
...You do raise a fear; I have been unable to get any of my university friends to start 40k, even when they've shown an interest. Why? Because they say it's too ridiculously expensive.

I do see that as the main issue with GW games, especially 40K. They require a lot more models to play their standard games. The answer to that is not to play standard games. Play 750pts or 400pts Combat Patrol - I played Combat Patrol for the first time a couple of weeks ago and it was a blast. Obviously there is no way GW are going to advertise this kind of play; when I started last year Spearhead rules came out. While their sales pitch on Spearhead went in one ear and out the other with me I can see it putting some new players off.

Stella Cadente wrote:

Henners91 wrote:the real gamers seem to be a dying breed.

no, real gamers just play real (affordable) games

Seriously?
Cost doesn't even enter into it for the 'real gamers' I know. Eating is not always an option; buy a game or buy lunch? I know plenty who would buy the game, I've done it myself
It's the casual gamers that the price rises are going to push away IMO. Real Gamers are gaming 'til death

I've been a long time fan but I have slowly over time diverted expenses to other games and systems (Dust Tactics and the FFG RPG's come to mind), not to mention the discovery of other companies out there with spiffy minis. I still buy the odd mini but I've got a feeling my days of big purchases at GW are over.

Haven't bought anything since Space Hulk was republished. And before that I had not grabbed anything for almost a year so with increased price rises I will not be buying anything from GW in the foreseeable future. I will probably grab used stuff off of Ebay to finish off the armies I would like to complete. It is just gotten too expensive and my interests are starting to move more into historicals which have plenty of cheap and well sculpted options.

I'm serously cutting down my purchases, in fact I may stop entirely. I may still ask for GW miniatures as gifts, if someone intends to spend that much on me, but not any plesin rubbish. I'm not boycotting, but the state of things is ridiculous. I can't afford to buy much myself anymore, prices are now astonishingly high (50% more than just a coupke of years ago on many items) and i have a limited income, bills to pay and a kid to provide for. Quality has seemingly just gone down the toilet. GW are using every dirty trick they can think of to cut off our access to third-party discounts. They bully people over spurious IP claims, they fire staff (sometimes high-ranking, long-serving creative heads) for failing to toe the line. They're are becoming secretive to the point of paranoia, thus reducing my interest and my ability to save for upcoming releases. They release products I want as limited editions, with no warning. And this is just a partial list of their gak. I've really had enough.

There are few more things I really want and will probably get one way or another, eventually. But whereas I was buying quite a lot, I will be getting very little from now on. When i next have money for miniatures it will probably go on Mantic minis. I've been wanting some of their zombies for a while.

Had already stopped really before now being priced out overall. Still got enough to play still if I want to.

I am considering leaving Dakka though. It's done far worse in the last few weeks; this thread and it's copies included.

All this petulant whining has gone too far.

[Insert 'whining about whining' comment here]

DarknessEternal wrote:I am considering leaving Dakka though. It's done far worse in the last few weeks; this thread and it's copies included.

All this petulant whining has gone too far.

Don't let the door hit you etc. etc.

It's entirely your choice as to which threads you read/comment in. Don't like the current subject matter? Don't read them or make your own thread about stuff you *do* want to talk about.

L. Wrex

DarknessEternal wrote:I am considering leaving Dakka though. It's done far worse in the last few weeks; this thread and it's copies included.

All this petulant whining has gone too far.

Isn't whining about a very legitimate concern just complaining?

Isn't saying price rises, coupled with dubious morality business 'changing of the goalposts' regarding trading internationally, coupled with the rapidly escalating disaster of the resin miniatures quality all a fairly reasonable points to complain about on a forum dedicated to wargaming?

If there are multiple threads, they are due to the sheer weight of dissatisfaction with what the company is doing atm, the groundswell of popular discontent from the customer base towards the company's practices.

Ultimately, point one, you can't tell folks to shut up by dint of the number of them being angry about this and, point two, if it has become terrible enough to upset you just by looking at thread titles (as you can always not open them...) then, perhaps, for you're blood pressure's sake, you should vacate the premises.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:I am considering leaving Dakka though. It's done far worse in the last few weeks; this thread and it's copies included.

All this petulant whining has gone too far.

Isn't whining about a very legitimate concern just complaining?

Isn't saying price rises, coupled with dubious morality business 'changing of the goalposts' regarding trading internationally, coupled with the rapidly escalating disaster of the resin miniatures quality all a fairly reasonable points to complain about on a forum dedicated to wargaming?

If there are multiple threads, they are due to the sheer weight of dissatisfaction with what the company is doing atm, the groundswell of popular discontent from the customer base towards the company's practices.

Ultimately, point one, you can't tell folks to shut up by dint of the number of them being angry about this and, point two, if it has become terrible enough to upset you just by looking at thread titles (as you can always not open them...) then, perhaps, for you're blood pressure's sake, you should vacate the premises.

While I do understand his sentiment and yours, I think that there is far less of a problem with these threads as I don't have to read them, as there is a much bigger problem when these sentiments infiltrate other threads.

just my .02.

Oh and I am not thinking of leaving dakka, just for clarification

The amazing thing about Dakka (and every other forum for that matter) is how you can simply not read threads that don't interest you.

It might be difficult to get to grips with at the start, but it gets easier as you start ignore all the threads that you don't like.

I've mostly purchased second hand/swapped for quiet some time, avoiding direct GW/store purchasing when ever I can.
ATM, I have a half complete Praetorian IG Army that I've invested to much time and money into to abandon (70% second hand purchases), I plan to finish it , using ebay and making trades/second hand purchases + alternative minis were I can.

At one point, I was spending near $1,500.00 a year on GW , and though I fully realize that's just a drop in the bucket when compared to GW's overall "haul"...I'll feel much better knowing my "small contribution" won't be finding it's way into GW's coffers.

What is sad about this is that there is FINALLY something legitimate to complain about regarding GW business practices. But I've become so inured by years of pointless, petulant, pedantic whining on Dakka that even this current strain sounds false. It isn't, of course, but who can tell after years of crying wolf. So I find myself with little compassion.

GW isn't a company to me, but rather a universe. And one I still love, moronic business decisions from the genesis company aside. I like talking about it. The universe I mean. The happiness little toy soldiers bring. A luxury.

If you are going quit because the prices have become unacceptable, I wish you well. If you are going to talk about quitting, but then sit around DakkaDakka, subtitled Warhammer 40K Forums, to whine about the injustice of a company that makes 1 inch dolls (and vehicles for them), but not in the manner you'd wish, then suck it.

DarknessEternal wrote:I am considering leaving Dakka though. It's done far worse in the last few weeks; this thread and it's copies included.

All this petulant whining has gone too far.

I dont understand why you would leave the site when you could just avoid reading the posts that are upsetting you?

The momentum behind these types of posts is a testament to the real concerns being voiced in the wargamming community.

Your opinon is as valid as theirs are.

dienekes96 wrote:If you are going quit because the prices have become unacceptable, I wish you well. If you are going to talk about quitting, but then sit around DakkaDakka, subtitled Warhammer 40K Forums, to whine about the injustice of a company that makes 1 inch dolls (and vehicles for them), but not in the manner you'd wish, then suck it.

That’s a tremendously unintelligent viewpoint there, Chuck.

If you want to post here you can’t be unhappy with GW? If you want to post here you cannot voice concerns over the company responsible for the site’s chief attraction? If you’re going to post here you should just suck it up and accept the things you don’t like, or, at the very least, never bring them up? Is that what you really think? Really?

And the very idea that this series of recent decisions by GW are the first ‘legitimate’ complaints to come up and that previous complaints were just ‘crying wolf’ is also utterly preposterous.

E-BAY

H.B.M.C. wrote:

dienekes96 wrote:If you are going quit because the prices have become unacceptable, I wish you well. If you are going to talk about quitting, but then sit around DakkaDakka, subtitled Warhammer 40K Forums, to whine about the injustice of a company that makes 1 inch dolls (and vehicles for them), but not in the manner you'd wish, then suck it.

That’s a tremendously unintelligent viewpoint there, Chuck.

If you want to post here you can’t be unhappy with GW? If you want to post here you cannot voice concerns over the company responsible for the site’s chief attraction? If you’re going to post here you should just suck it up and accept the things you don’t like, or, at the very least, never bring them up? Is that what you really think? Really?

And the very idea that this series of recent decisions by GW are the first ‘legitimate’ complaints to come up and that previous complaints were just ‘crying wolf’ is also utterly preposterous.

+1

....As this is a "War Gaming" forum, then surely all members of the "War Gaming" community should be able to voice their opinions concerning the decisions made by a " War Gaming" company....
Particularly a "War Gaming" company that seems to make a great deal of bad decisions concerning their interaction (or lack of) with said "War Gaming" community...

dienekes96 wrote:
If you are going quit because the prices have become unacceptable, I wish you well. If you are going to talk about quitting, but then sit around DakkaDakka, subtitled Warhammer 40K Forums, to whine about the injustice of a company that makes 1 inch dolls (and vehicles for them), but not in the manner you'd wish, then suck it.

Quitting for alot of people simply means stopping currently planned and future purchases. It doesn't mean that you suddenly stopped liking or wanting to talk about the universe that the game is set in or that your existing purchases simply go *poof* and disappear; most of my armies were paid for, built, and painted when you were just a little baby troll in wooden diapers. Not playing the game itself only serves to punish me instead of the company making the stupid decisions. I suggest that you simply *gasp* ignore the threads about this matter if you don't wish to read about it instead of trolling them as NO ONE is forcing you to click the links that are obviously about expressing dissatisfaction with GW's decisions.

dienekes96 wrote:What is sad about this is that there is FINALLY something legitimate to complain about regarding GW business practices. But I've become so inured by years of pointless, petulant, pedantic whining on Dakka that even this current strain sounds false. It isn't, of course, but who can tell after years of crying wolf. So I find myself with little compassion.

GW isn't a company to me, but rather a universe. And one I still love, moronic business decisions from the genesis company aside. I like talking about it. The universe I mean. The happiness little toy soldiers bring. A luxury.

If you are going quit because the prices have become unacceptable, I wish you well. If you are going to talk about quitting, but then sit around DakkaDakka, subtitled Warhammer 40K Forums, to whine about the injustice of a company that makes 1 inch dolls (and vehicles for them), but not in the manner you'd wish, then suck it.

You and darkness eternal are completly missing the point.

matter of fact, you just !@#$ed for !@#ing sake, much to your own amusement.

Go back and reread your post, then come back to the conversation when you know what your talking about. Not just because unless you've been under a rock for the past two weeks, the news has been crappy with a chance of !@#$ty, or because even the so called "Good news" is peppered with corperation tinted rose colored B.S.

I was going to call up a whole bunch of stuff and say some other stuff, but honesty, !@#$ it.

Your post here doesn't even hit a lick of sense. On one hand you !@#$ about something, then !@#$ about something else.

Completly missed the point. Thanks for your thought though, shallow though it was.


You accomplished so little... with so little effort. GRATZ, i guess.

Ah... now seems like good time to remind everyone to calm down, perhaps have another go over of the rules (link is in my signature) and, as always, stay polite.

Not leaving, but cutting back, now that I've got pretty much all I need for my three armies. Frankly a lot GW's "stuff" has disappointed me, but has'nt stopped me from buying. This will make me consider if I really, really NEED a model, rather than do I WANT that model.
I have no idea if the powers that be at GW HQ actually read any of this stuff, but reducing the quality of your product (casting material) while increasing the price is a sure-fire way to lose customers. Did'nt ANY of them go to a single business class?
It may be that GW will get its act together eventually. I've got plenty to paint, check my sig.

I get great deals from EBay and other online retail outlets that are up to 60% cheaper that GW Australian Shelf prices so i am not affected.

I stopped moaning and groaning, got over the disappointment and used this as an opportunity to look around. And i found replacements for Maelstrom and Wayland.

But it still amazes that there are a lot of individuals that are i am sorry to say are pathological whingers, they do nothing but complain and do nothing to help themselves.

I have absolutely no, i repeat absolutely no sympathy for any of them.

So my plans to expand my 17,000 point Chaos Space Marine Army continues, by the end of next year "touch wood" it will be 35,000 to 40,000 points.

Edit: nvm

As this thread, correctly titled, is designed for complaints, I decided to come in and complain. If it is alright to whine about the company, then I assumed it was alright to complain about the laborious tone of the boards. As that became complaining about a post complaining about the complainers, I see the rectum of Ourobouros rearing up.

To comply with Alpharius' wishes, I'll depart this thread.

So, as of this morning, the poll results are an interesting read;

Are you actually leaving GW?
I already stopped buying from them before recent events 19% [ 103 ]
I have stopped buying from them because of recent events 17% [ 90 ]
I will make one last purchase to finish current projects but nothing else 12% [ 63 ]
I will continue to buy from them, but not as much as before 29% [ 158 ]
This will not affect my buying habits 20% [ 110 ]
I will buy MORE!! GW are the best! 3% [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 539

While this is clearly not a scientific poll, for what it is worth, it's an interesting snapshot: First, we must remember that, given the nature of this website, this is a poll of people who already have strong feelings for GW, one way or another.

-People who refuse to patronize GW, either because of recent moves or past moves: 36%.

-People who will buy less or are winding down their buying: 41%.

-People unaffected or encouraged in their buying habits: 23%.

Respondents claiming negative buying habits (from no buying, to reduced buying): 77% (414). Respondents claiming no negative change or increased buying enthusiasm: 23% (125).

Now, as I said this is not a representative sample, but, I think it is fair to qualify these results as "overwhelmingly negative". As I said, this website is biased towards people with feelings (either good or bad) towards GW; not a lot of people completely apathetic here towards GW. The importance of these results comes from the fact that GW is largely (completely?) reliant on word of mouth advertising and a community approach.

As always, time will tell.

Buzzsaw wrote:Now, as I said this is not a representative sample, but, I think it is fair to qualify these results as "overwhelmingly negative".

Of a small, vocal minority off GW's customerbase and not even the target audiance.

And over half the people on dakka are confirmed hypocrites or liars as people who said 'I quitz' last price increase are still buying and still post 'those Dark eldar look great! I'll buy 7!' So when they say 'I will never buy GW again, what they mean is, 'I want people to think that because I want cheaper prices but I am so addicted I will continue to buy regardless.'

It is an interesting read to search some of the most vocal people claiming to have already quit or going to quit and when you show all their posts, in between posting 'I'll never buy again' they are posting 'I will buy 2 stormravens!!!'

I find the actual words of posters and actual actions more telling than a poll.

I purchase all of my models from Ebay, I don't know if it makes a dent in their overall sales, but I won't give GW the satisfaction of raping me of my hard earn dollars!

I'll still buy GW products on my clients' behalf. But my gaming purchases have almost entirely shifted to non-GW products. I was already making the move before the latest decision, simply because I've found the imaginative output of other companies more interesting, and the quality comparable or superior.

Having said that, I received my dividend cheque for £31 from my GW shares, for which I'm very grateful.

But I'll probably spend it on an Infinity rulebook.

R.

I'd like to see what the poll results would have been six months ago. It would have made these numbers more relevant.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:This sentiment would have been much more powerful if not prefaced with "done my last order"

I have loyalty to those that show respect to their customers, hence my last order was through Maelstrom, as a thank you to them for all they have done and for being stuck in a situation not of their own creation. Surely you can understand that?

You could have ordered non-GW stuff from Maelstrom. You can continue to order non-GW stuff from Maelstrom.

Instead you bought some more GW stuff despite the many, many complaining posts from yourself.

I am glad that I have 99% of my Blood Angels stuff bought....I have well over 5K. Other than a few models for 40K and WHFB.....I will still buy but I am glad I have already bought the majority of what I ever need!

Scott-S6 wrote:You could have ordered non-GW stuff from Maelstrom. You can continue to order non-GW stuff from Maelstrom.

Instead you bought some more GW stuff despite the many, many complaining posts from yourself.

I have bought several non-GW products over the past week and a bit, including Warmachine and BattleTech miniatures.

Happy yet?

I honestly don't think I'll ever totally quit the 40k hobby, but I've gotten to a point where I own enough armies. Future purchases will mainly be new rules books, paints and the occasional model or squad to test out the new stuff, but with 7 armies to use I really don't see myself making another one.

Whoops

H.B.M.C. wrote:

dienekes96 wrote:If you are going quit because the prices have become unacceptable, I wish you well. If you are going to talk about quitting, but then sit around DakkaDakka, subtitled Warhammer 40K Forums, to whine about the injustice of a company that makes 1 inch dolls (and vehicles for them), but not in the manner you'd wish, then suck it.

That’s a tremendously unintelligent viewpoint there, Chuck.

If you want to post here you can’t be unhappy with GW? If you want to post here you cannot voice concerns over the company responsible for the site’s chief attraction? If you’re going to post here you should just suck it up and accept the things you don’t like, or, at the very least, never bring them up? Is that what you really think? Really?

And the very idea that this series of recent decisions by GW are the first ‘legitimate’ complaints to come up and that previous complaints were just ‘crying wolf’ is also utterly preposterous.

Quoted for truth. I've always been pretty neutral to GW, always thought their prices were a tad ridiculous, yeah, but I was neither fanboy nor hater.

All these price hikes have really pissed me off, however. I love the products they put out, but my Tyranid army is now pretty much going to stop being fleshed out, and it's only at a measly 1500 points. They jacked the prices up on anything else I needed or wanted for my bugs, so now they'll get lonely with the Gargoyles I got for my birthday being the only new thing they'll see. Forty-two dollars for Tyranid Warriors? Come on, GW, you've got to be out of your mind (more so than before).

For the moment, I intend to slowly finish out my Dark Eldar force. Maybe I'll just try to purchase it all in the next month or so before the prices go further up. All in all, I'm pretty bummed about this whole business. I loved buying new models, painting them up, and then playing some matches with my buddies. We'll still play 40k, but no new models will be a bummer for us. The hikes also mean I won't be getting into Fantasy this summer like I hoped I was going to.

nkelsch wrote:And over half the people on dakka are confirmed hypocrites or liars as people who said 'I quitz' last price increase are still buying and still post 'those Dark eldar look great! I'll buy 7!' So when they say 'I will never buy GW again, what they mean is, 'I want people to think that because I want cheaper prices but I am so addicted I will continue to buy regardless.'

Wow. Over half! Of all Dakka! Those are some impressive numbers you just made up!

Being a painter and not an actual gamer, I think i'll be winding down purchases to now the very barest of bare minimums.

Completely detaching from GW is unlikey as I think I'll be buying small SMALL purchases once in a blue moon if I fancy painting a new model, but for the most part I think I'm done with them.

On the flip side I've been noticing Warmachine minitures for a long while now, but havent bothered with them for two reasons;
1: Ease of access, gotta be bought online.
2: I was an avid GW consumer.

Now ive lost steam with GW, im thinking it might be worth trying some new stuff out, and hopefully I'll improve my painting while at it.
The benefit of GW being in shops and the like is I can simply not go into them any more, and won't be tempted to pull out my wallet.

TQ.

My purchases were never massive or regular to begin with. This won't change what I buy, but it certainly makes me feel sad to see so many people leaving the hobby......

nkelsch wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:Now, as I said this is not a representative sample, but, I think it is fair to qualify these results as "overwhelmingly negative".

Of a small, vocal minority off GW's customerbase and not even the target audiance.

Wrong.

That mentality, the one where this forum and others are places only frequented by old and bitter bastards like me, is false.

The target audience, the younger players, buy their figures and white dwarf magazine, and then they go online. The average 14 year old is far more computer savvy than the likes of us and the dakka polls recently showed the age range far wider than you think.

So the new players come to forums like this and read up on more experienced players posts. If they see and absorb enough, their GW experience is shortened and they are exposed to other game systems. There are several good and valid reasons why a sizeable amount of the older players post about GW in a negative fashion.

The argument about a vocal minority of old farts who don't purchase much is the same one GWs high command uses. It isn't true. If GW had taken the option of collaboration with forums and treating the internet as the future instead of treating forums as the enemy and the internet as 'something that will go away if we ignore it long enough', then perhaps things might be different, but as it is, the kids come here and learn the negative perception from the long time players.




As for my own buying of the product. I had planned on a dark eldar army, wood elf army and a massive, massive empire army with lots of forgeworld bits. All this crass greed around the resin switch and yet more plastic price hikes means that, yes, I will continue to purchase GW product, to finish my wife's tyranid army, finish my chaos warriors and perhaps some terrain.

Then that's it. I cannot justify the 'worth' of individual models to the price being charged for them. I might just spluge the money I would have spent on a big fish tank or something.

Wife and I are now certainly looking into warmahordes and malifaux.

On an upshot I think that several minor game manufacturers could actually do really well out of this and get a newer and bigger fanbase

Yes I agree, I have said the same on several other posts that I think in the long run it could be good for the hobby.

There are many other games out there, and a new generation of stuff that in terms of rules mechanics knocks GW's core stuff out cold. Had it not been for GW's appalling treatment of their fans (who lets face it, probably only needed the tiniest of concessions to keep in line) then many of those games might well have sunk without a trace.

Now, hobbyists are being pushed towards those other games in droves, and the numbers may well reach a 'critical mass' where they start to steamroll and get mass worldwide appeal (arguably this has already happened with WarmaHordes).

I will purchase less from GW as I now get less for my money, instead of spending a bit extra to get two kit I will only buy the one. It'll take me longer to build an army, thus GW will get less of my money each month.

I've never been much of a regular purchaser (or poster for that matter) but certainly this latest round of GW "business decisions" will affect how much I buy. I'm soon to be a poor uni student so until I have the space and the money, any models I buy will have to be for display only. But I haven't been put off GW altogether though.

Simple reasons really. First I honestly prefer their models to the other companies that i've seen. Sure they have their occasional "misses" but in my opinion they "hit" a lot more than other companies as well. Also my favorite part of GW's games is the background they provide to go along with it, they've managed to create a whole galaxy to play in and build on. Plus with regular additions from Black Library this just keeps expanding. Other companies just don't match this, I've tried looking into Warmachine and Hordes but it just doesn't interest me at all.

This is all only my opinion but I'll be staying with GW, though in spirit rather than with my wallet.

Quick update, although I'm glad to see people still voting - I sent a letter to Mark Wells yesterday (so he should have got it today) which included the stats as they were at 565 votes.

If he sends me a reply I'll post it on dakka - It'll be interesting to see how he 'explains' the data...

I spend my hard earned at Ebay now.....picked up a few bargains recently :-)

Chimera_Calvin wrote:Quick update, although I'm glad to see people still voting - I sent a letter to Mark Wells yesterday (so he should have got it today) which included the stats as they were at 565 votes.

If he sends me a reply I'll post it on dakka - It'll be interesting to see how he 'explains' the data...

Let's see....

As small insignificant vocal sub group of entitled adults with too much time on their hands who are not the target demo of their game anyways... and besides, he knows that as history has proven over and over, that the people who are gonna quit won't 'stay' regardless what GW does and those ones who are too addicted to quit won't quit regardless what GW does. Turnover is expected and welcomed as it is the design of their model to sell you an army and then get out of the way.

Sending the CEO of GW a worthless internet poll makes you look foolish like you actually think you deserve a real response to this pile of trash data like it is actually legitimate or means something.

Not buying much from GW again; buying Forge world bits for a custom army, and some respirators from a bit site. So not much goes to GW in the end.
30 rifles, 10 las pistols, 10 melee weapons, 33 respirators, plus some non-GW minis to mix up into my own army.

Imperial Guard can be made from almost anything; and won't look so god damn plain.

Course i will end up buying some heavy weaponry might just get it from Forgeworld they tend to have some nice versions of the weapons.

You should specify "I will not spend as much money as I previously did" instead of "I will not buy as much". No one, provided they budget their funds, will be able to buy as much---as they are now getting less for their dollar. And that's fine with GW provided you don't change your spending habits---in fact I daresay that is their goal. Give less for more.

Month long embargos, keep buying but get less----that means very little to them. Spending your money with a competitor instead of GW however, will make an impact.

nkelsch wrote:

Chimera_Calvin wrote:Quick update, although I'm glad to see people still voting - I sent a letter to Mark Wells yesterday (so he should have got it today) which included the stats as they were at 565 votes.

If he sends me a reply I'll post it on dakka - It'll be interesting to see how he 'explains' the data...

Let's see....

As small insignificant vocal sub group of entitled adults with too much time on their hands who are not the target demo of their game anyways... and besides, he knows that as history has proven over and over, that the people who are gonna quit won't 'stay' regardless what GW does and those ones who are too addicted to quit won't quit regardless what GW does. Turnover is expected and welcomed as it is the design of their model to sell you an army and then get out of the way.

Sending the CEO of GW a worthless internet poll makes you look foolish like you actually think you deserve a real response to this pile of trash data like it is actually legitimate or means something.

Let's see....

I have worked very hard my entire life and do not consider myself in any way 'entitled' (I also do not cast aspersions on the personality of those I've never met - try it sometime and you'll come across as less arrogant ), however, as a customer I do have a right to comment on the level of service and value for money I receive from any company (not just this one). When I see that other people have a similar opinion this adds weight to my argument and is therefore relevant to the complaint I have made.

I have seen your posts frequently on this and other threads peddling the same line that anyone complaining is wasting their time and is basically acting like a spoiled brat. You are entitled to this opinion, of course, and I would defend to the death your right to both have it and express it - but you must therefore give me equal credence in believing that I (and the many others who agree with me) have a right to complain.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:
I have seen your posts frequently on this and other threads peddling the same line that anyone complaining is wasting their time and is basically acting like a spoiled brat. You are entitled to this opinion, of course, and I would defend to the death your right to both have it and express it - but you must therefore give me equal credence in believing that I (and the many others who agree with me) have a right to complain.

You don't have the right to be heard. The idea that somehow this poll is scientific or even of value or representative of anything is insulting to the target audience and intellectually dishonest. Thinking it is relevant shows how undeserving your letter is of a legitimate response and hurts your entire stance and flushes away any possible legitimacy your letter might have had. If you wanted to do a 'REAL' survey it has to be quantifiable data based on real responses, not a lie of a biased poll based upon emotion. Maybe if you did a private poll with quantification of purchases over the past 2 years, armies played, participation rate in events and the hobby and found actual trends of sales and consumption you MIGHT have a legitimate point. If you could show me 1000 users spending habits from the past 2 years avenues they purchased through and gaming habits and then show a correlation of price increases or bad news impacting sales or participation, then you might have a point, but you haven't done the legwork to do such a scientific survey of any value. To pretend this poll is equal to something like that is delusional.

The only way to make GW take note is to actually STOP CONSUMING. People don't want to, and they continue to buy and give GW money hand over fist. But they feel like simple complaining and a strongly worded letter should be enough. It is like a person at a restaurant who complains their dinner was 'bad' and doesn't want to pay for it, but yet they cleaned their plate before they sent it back to the kitchen. The food was bad, but obviously not bad enough to not lick the plate clean.

Complaining about these things is natural, complaining to your peers on a wargaming forum is to be expected and it is likely cathartic as they will understand what on earth you're talking about.

Anyone peddling this 'if you don't like it, get out of the kitchen/get off dakka the GW forum etc etc' should instead, stop opening these threads and quit flamebaiting. These are significant changes, for the worst in the eyes of many, to the largest wargaming company and the idea that people involved in the wargaming community won't comment on them is beyond naive to the point of being wilfully obtuse.

nkelsch, get the hell back in your corner. If you don't like what Calvin is doing, explain it in less fragrant and inciteful terminology. What you're posting now reeks of flamebait and trolling.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
nkelsch, get the hell back in your corner. If you don't like what Calvin is doing, explain it in less fragrant and inciteful terminology. What you're posting now reeks of flamebait and trolling.

Biased poll is biased. But let's treat it if it was legitimate.

First of all:
I already stopped buying from them before recent events 18% [ 107 ]
This means that 18% of people of this poll are not GW customers and are not influenced by this particular issue people are attempting to complain about. They are not even valid for this particular poll which is change of habits based upon the recent changes. Including them as people quitting over price changes is intellectually dishonest as they are NETRUAL and have no bearing on the poll positive or negative.

I will continue to buy from them, but not as much as before 30% [ 184 ]
These people as AgeOfEgos points out, are not actually going to spend less, most of them will spend the same but obtain less product. GW still makes a full profit margin off them if the spend the same. Since the poll doesn't attempt to clarify or quantify this, it can be manipulated in any way the user of the poll wishes.

So this means 330 users will spend the same or more Money, 69 will spend less money and 99 will stop spending money because of 'recent actions'. That means 70% of GW customers of this poll are not impacted at all... Considering this subset of customers is very easy to dissatisfy, considering after all the complaining 70% of the existing customers will continue to spend money the same is a pretty strong reason to show the market can and will bear the price increases and the dissatisfaction. Even the people who are making one last big buy, GW still gets their money to insulate them from the 'quitting' and has every ability to have future sales or product draw those people back in.

So why should the president of GW consider his changes a failure or a bad thing? This poll shows that it is a documented success in every capacity.

nkelsch wrote:
Biased poll is biased. But let's treat it if it was legitimate.

Hah, any poll is biased. I got a group of 100 girls to all agree to fox hunting by posing them the question 'do you believe in controlling pests that threaten farms? in my sociology class in college. Stats and damned lies etc.

nkelsch wrote:
First of all:
I already stopped buying from them before recent events 18% [ 107 ]
This means that 18% of people of this poll are not GW customers and are not influenced by this particular issue people are attempting to complain about. They are not even valid for this particular poll which is change of habits based upon the recent changes. Including them as people quitting over price changes is intellectually dishonest as they are NETRUAL and have no bearing on the poll positive or negative.

Well, as you should full well know, any poll is skewed by a very important factor, it's only completed by the type of people who bother completing polls. You are also dismissing a fairly important figure here from the numbers, that this is posted on a wargaming forum and that chances are these people may be still playing the games and own miniatures, these are a representative figure of an untapped potential market, the returning player. Further work could yield interesting results on this one category as to why they ceased purchasing from GW.
Using a little root cause analysis here shows us these are wargamers who once bought from them but who have now stopped, why is a good question to be asking.

nkelsch wrote:
I will continue to buy from them, but not as much as before 30% [ 184 ]
These people as AgeOfEgos points out, are not actually going to spend less, most of them will spend the same but obtain less product. GW still makes a full profit margin off them if the spend the same. Since the poll doesn't attempt to clarify or quantify this, it can be manipulated in any way the user of the poll wishes.

You have not one shred of evidence to support your theory. Assuming that the reduced purchasing will be equally balanced by the rising prices is absolute conjecture, to exactly the same extent as you've just accused the other fellow.
There is plenty of space for people who, instead of starting up several new armies, will now just finish off existing ones, to a dramatically reduced financial commitment to the product.
I happen to be one of them.

nkelsch wrote:
So this means 330 users will spend the same or more Money, 69 will spend less money and 99 will stop spending money because of 'recent actions'. That means 70% of GW customers of this poll are not impacted at all... Considering this subset of customers is very easy to dissatisfy, considering after all the complaining 70% of the existing customers will continue to spend money the same is a pretty strong reason to show the market can and will bear the price increases and the dissatisfaction. Even the people who are making one last big buy, GW still gets their money to insulate them from the 'quitting' and has every ability to have future sales or product draw those people back in.

So, even if we ignore what I just said above about the 30% for which you have no evidence to support the idea of a 'balancing act' between price hikes and reduced physical purchasing, you are still confronted with 30% dissatisfaction. Any CEO who ignores that should be beaten about the head and thrown off the roof of the building by very angry shareholders. Doubtless it being conducted on a forum for wargaming will be claimed to be an unfairly cynical and aggressive audience, but the other option, the one GW doubtless uses, is inside it's stores, where the kiddies are. They will yield no better result.

nkelsch wrote:
So why should the president of GW consider his changes a failure or a bad thing? This poll shows that it is a documented success in every capacity.

go and read the last 2 GW financial reports...

The company is not healthy. Why do you think we have seen the one man stores in reduced rent malls despite GWs maintaining that the stores are their principal recruiting and indoctrinating weapon? Why do you think they have shoe-horned their IP rental to computer companies into their initial profits? Why do you think we've just seen the move to resin, a cheaper material and then a price hike?

The issue is with WHY it's a documented success.

Easy, because GW has created an environment where >70% of their customers are unaffected by pretty much anything they do, hence, by shrewd calculation, their price rise might be payed off, etc etc. The calculations, for the GW accounts department anyway, will work out.

I'm sorry - 'I don't have the right to be heard'? Please stop wilfully misreading my comments to support your own point of view - I said I had a right to complain and I stand by that.

'Biased poll is biased'? Again, you're making assumptions about me as a person that you have no justification for and then publicly proclaimed them as fact. From the tenor of your posts I have drawn certain assumptions about you as a person, but this is a discussion of a topic, not the people contributing.

As I stated in the first post of this thread, I deliberately did not run this poll for the first two weeks following the first news of GWs proposals so as to attempt to reduce the number of purely emotional 'Feth You GW!!' responses. Many people who have contributed to this discussion have been honest and said that they will not stop buying from GW, even if they object to their business practices. I had no expectations when I set up the poll - I was genuinely curious as to the response.

You clearly feel, however, that I set up a poll that was designed to only give certain responses and that I then used the answers to justify my argument - essentially attributing a malicious intent to the poll which is not the case. I am not an expert in polling models or language and admit that fact. The options I gave were ones which I felt all potential respondents could easily identify with and put themselves into one category.

Could the poll have been better? Certainly, but I do not have the resources or professional expertise of Gallup or Ipsos Mori. Does this invalidate the poll? No, because people have been willing to freely categorise themselves and I have taken their responses at face value - yes, they could have lied (and you clearly feel that many of those who claim they will no longer support GW will do so anyway) but how is that different to any other poll? Exit polls at political elections are rarely completely accurate but it does not invalidate the general trends they show.


I believe that the results (inadequate as they may be) are indicative of a general dissatisfaction with GW and I have brought this to the attention of someone who ought to care about this. Will it make a difference? Perhaps not but not doing anything would not have made a difference either. I'm voting with my wallet and not supporting GW until and unless they change the way they do business and I know I'm not alone - but I fail to see how refusing to communicate with them is going to make things any better.

I thought the poll was quite accurate TBH. And it seems to imply that many people on here don't really want to spend as much on GW products as the CEO would like. I personally haven't made a purchase in a while, nor plan to. I have stuff to paint up and I've pretty much told myself - I must get them done. And when those are done, I may consider buying more stuff. It won't be much in the long run.

Leigen_Zero wrote:I'm not so much 'quitting' GW, just moving to other areas (more deserving of my disposable income) until GW get their act together.

True Story. I've been playing more airsoft and repairing my damaged guns that I never got around to fixing

It seems to me that even in many of those who state they will continue to purchase GW items much of the "joy" and "enthusiasm" is gone, and it's become a situation of "Well...I have this or that army to finish..but won't start anything new"

I know this is the case in my situation.

I'll keep buying, playing and painting... but i am goign to have to buy less unfortunatly. jus thtis last weekend i got 20 ork boys, 1 AoBR box and a loota box... but that was my 3 month warhammer budget and last month it'd have gotten a bit more

See? Exactly. It's not going to stop it, just slow it down...

People love the game and love the miniatures, even if they don't like GW's business practices

nkelsch wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
nkelsch, get the hell back in your corner. If you don't like what Calvin is doing, explain it in less fragrant and inciteful terminology. What you're posting now reeks of flamebait and trolling.

Biased poll is biased. But let's treat it if it was legitimate.

<snip>

So why should the president of GW consider his changes a failure or a bad thing? This poll shows that it is a documented success in every capacity.

That is certainly some... remarkable logic (to use a neutral word).

Let us consider the poll results as they stand now;

Are you actually leaving GW?
I already stopped buying from them before recent events 18% [ 116 ]
I have stopped buying from them because of recent events 16% [ 100 ]
I will make one last purchase to finish current projects but nothing else 11% [ 70 ]
I will continue to buy from them, but not as much as before 31% [ 192 ]
This will not affect my buying habits 21% [ 134 ]
I will buy MORE!! GW are the best! 3% [ 17 ]
Total Votes: 629

Let us skip over the categories that are ambiguous, and concentrate on the two that are quite clear:

I have stopped buying from them because of recent events 16% [ 100 ]
I will buy MORE!! GW are the best! 3% [ 17 ]
Total Votes: 629

Now, of course, this includes the people that have already stopped purchasing (116, 18% of respondents), so, let's exclude them from the results, which results in;

I have stopped buying from them because of recent events 19% [ 100 ]
I will buy MORE!! GW are the best! 3% [ 17 ]
Total Votes: 513

So, according to this poll, of the respondents that currently purchase GW products, for every 1 person that will increase their purchasing, just under 6 customers will abandon the brand.

Now, again, we have the issue of the forums being a non-random sample: but surely this forum cannot be considered unrepresentative of the hobby as a whole? Which is only important only so far as the GW brand is almost completely dependent on word of mouth advertising.

Any change or series of changes that results in the loss of nearly 20% of your customer base seems... ill suited, to be described as a success.

I'm done! My Orks will be the last srmy I buy from GW. I have x5 40k armies, all in the +5000pts range. I'll keep them upto date, so much if there is a new codex or rule book, but no more models.

Sodapop are now getting my model money and I'm on the look out for a new games system to play.

Where I go, 5 others follow.

Sam__theRelentless wrote:See? Exactly. It's not going to stop it, just slow it down...

People love the game and love the miniatures, even if they don't like GW's business practices

...But, as more and more people opt to simply "complete" current armies ( especially if they use ebay/swaps to do so) and refuse to start "new" armies, then surely this affects GW on some level.
A company can not exist simply by selling "starter boxes" to "new" customers, and at some point the exodus of "veteran" players must make some impact.

I think and have always thought that GW make the best models and the best rulesets, with privateer press being a close second.

GW will continue to have my support as much as they always have done since they got me into the hobby and have provided me with more hours of enjoyment than I can count.

FITZZ wrote:

Sam__theRelentless wrote:See? Exactly. It's not going to stop it, just slow it down...

People love the game and love the miniatures, even if they don't like GW's business practices

...But, as more and more people opt to simply "complete" current armies ( especially if they use ebay/swaps to do so) and refuse to start "new" armies, then surely this affects GW on some level.
A company can not exist simply by selling "starter boxes" to "new" customers, and at some point the exodus of "veteran" players must make some impact.

Indeed, but it's not like there aren't going to be ANY new people starting, in the same way that the majority of the veterans will in fact stay.

High_Marshal_Helbrecht wrote:I think and have always thought that GW make the best models and the best rulesets, with privateer press being a close second.

GW will continue to have my support as much as they always have done since they got me into the hobby and have provided me with more hours of enjoyment than I can count.

and to counter those who feel I am not impartial, good on you HMH

I don't personally agree, but it would be an uninteresting world if we all felt the same

The hobby is enjoyable. The best way to experience it is by GW miniature monopoly. It's that simple, enough said.

I just can not afford it anymore, with a wife and two kids and no time to play much it just dose not make sence anymore. I have three armies and plenty of extras to build and paint to last me for a long time. I just can not justify paying $30.00 for 10 ork boyz. sorry GW, you just don't do it for me anymore.

Sam__theRelentless wrote:The hobby is enjoyable. The best way for me to experience it is by GW miniature monopoly. It's that simple, enough said.

Fixed that for you

I already switched to mantic a year ago.

Mantic = awesome. I bought a ton of dwarves and undead for 30p per model, brand new.. or over 80% off GW's usual prices.

Yes, they really are *that* cheap... check out some of their army boxes!

The prices they sell their models at just shows up how much of a bad deal GW really is.

Sam__theRelentless wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Sam__theRelentless wrote:See? Exactly. It's not going to stop it, just slow it down...

People love the game and love the miniatures, even if they don't like GW's business practices

...But, as more and more people opt to simply "complete" current armies ( especially if they use ebay/swaps to do so) and refuse to start "new" armies, then surely this affects GW on some level.
A company can not exist simply by selling "starter boxes" to "new" customers, and at some point the exodus of "veteran" players must make some impact.

Indeed, but it's not like there aren't going to be ANY new people starting, in the same way that the majority of the veterans will in fact stay.

Perhaps so, but clearly the start up cost will put a great deal of perspective "new"players off,and in the cases of those with no (or little) income of their own, put their parents off.
And in the case of many veteran players, those who do continue to purchase will, in many cases, cut back on what they buy...and opt against starting new armies.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:

Sam__theRelentless wrote:The hobby is enjoyable. The best way for me to experience it is by GW miniature monopoly. It's that simple, enough said.

Fixed that for you

Sorry. My meaning was not clear, what I wanted to get across was that the general consensus is that GW's miniatures, ignoring price, are the best. Minus Finecast, of course.
Hence, the point that the most wargames are played with GW miniatures. Ergo

scarletsquig wrote:I already switched to mantic a year ago.

Mantic = awesome. I bought a ton of dwarves and undead for 30p per model, brand new.. or over 80% off GW's usual prices.

Yes, they really are *that* cheap... check out some of their army boxes!

The prices they sell their models at just shows up how much of a bad deal GW really is.

I'm not saying they aren't, that really isn't my point. I for one don't know any miniatures save GW's, and thus am automatically allied to their products. I'm sure there are others like me, and I will stay in the hobby until I can be called a "veteran"

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:You could have ordered non-GW stuff from Maelstrom. You can continue to order non-GW stuff from Maelstrom.
Instead you bought some more GW stuff despite the many, many complaining posts from yourself.

I have bought several non-GW products over the past week and a bit, including Warmachine and BattleTech miniatures.
Happy yet?

Nope. Despite all your complaining you still went and ordered more GW stuff. Way to protest!

Scott-S6 wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:You could have ordered non-GW stuff from Maelstrom. You can continue to order non-GW stuff from Maelstrom.
Instead you bought some more GW stuff despite the many, many complaining posts from yourself.

I have bought several non-GW products over the past week and a bit, including Warmachine and BattleTech miniatures.
Happy yet?

Nope. Despite all your complaining you still went and ordered more GW stuff. Way to protest!

Should partially completed armies that have been under construction for a given time simply be left unfinished ?
Completing a started project doesn't negate the fact that someone is unsatisfied with a companies performance ...nor does it indicate that they will begin any new projects using the companies products.

FITZZ wrote: Should partially completed armies that have been under construction for a given time simply be left unfinished ?

Teach them a lesson by only buying stuff that you need.

FITZZ wrote: Completing a started project doesn't negate the fact that someone is unsatisfied with a companies performance ...nor does it indicate that they will begin any new projects using the companies products.

Nor does it indicate that they won't begin any new projects.

Scott-S6 wrote:

FITZZ wrote: Should partially completed armies that have been under construction for a given time simply be left unfinished ?

Teach them a lesson by only buying stuff that you need.

FITZZ wrote: Completing a started project doesn't negate the fact that someone is unsatisfied with a companies performance ...nor does it indicate that they will begin any new projects using the companies products.

Nor does it indicate that they won't begin any new projects.

I suppose so, In my own case I have a Praetorian army that I've been working on for almost a year...and have wanted for over a decade, it's been built on second hand purchases and swaps, and I hope to complete it in much the same way.
After that army is finished...so am I (with GW at least).

Just calculated how much it would be to finish off my current armies and its gonna cost £500 ish. But thats with the GW prices.

The majority i can get on wayland games and what i cant will be from gw(hey what can i say, i want to support the guys who have helped me out alot).

FITZZ wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:You could have ordered non-GW stuff from Maelstrom. You can continue to order non-GW stuff from Maelstrom.
Instead you bought some more GW stuff despite the many, many complaining posts from yourself.

I have bought several non-GW products over the past week and a bit, including Warmachine and BattleTech miniatures.
Happy yet?

Nope. Despite all your complaining you still went and ordered more GW stuff. Way to protest!

Should partially completed armies that have been under construction for a given time simply be left unfinished ?
Completing a started project doesn't negate the fact that someone is unsatisfied with a companies performance ...nor does it indicate that they will begin any new projects using the companies products.

I agree with Scott-S6, don't get me wrong, I don't want to kick dirt into H.B.M.C.s face, but there's some serious hating going on right now (understandably) and showing GW you mean business by ordering from them (either directly or via a indie retailer) isn't really showing them anything but your credit card number.

I understand the point about "finishing" an army....but what does that mean exactly? I'm fortunate in so much as I have a completed (built and painted) IG army....I will continue to play with it, but I won't buy anything else from GW, including rulesets...this is my personal stand for me...now, is my IG army "finished"...well, I don't have every variant of vehicle, or infantry unit, but given my stance...I consider my army to be finished.

If I play WH40K with friends, I can play with the points limit that my army covers....full stop. Would I be standing by my point of view if I decided, well, I hate GW, but I'm going to just go out and buy some more vehicles so I can field more of my IG....blah blah blah....where does it end? When will I be finished? The truth is, the way GW have structured their games, you'll never be finished......and I think that's what makes H.B.M.C.s argument difficult to swallow.

I think people need to pick a side in this debate and stick to it, anything else simply cheapens their point of view in the eyes of their peers.

You people are insane...

H.B.M.C. wrote:You people are insane...

You need to aim that gun when you fire it

If your comment was aimed at me, then all I can say is....I dislike GWs policies, and I dislike their new product direction....I haven't bought anything from them or their distribution network, and anything I've started but isn't finished is being sold to fund alternatives to GW.

I don't know, seems pretty logical to me.

Delephont wrote:I think people need to pick a side in this debate and stick to it, anything else simply cheapens their point of view in the eyes of their peers.

Naw, it's the internet. People can buy whatever they want, and claim something totally different on the internet.

I saw H.B.M.C buy 6 dreadknights from a GW store, tip the sales rep who pressured him into it, and then sent Jervis a thank you card.

I bet he denies it though.

Last year I reached the point where what I really, really wanted a decent game that I could play with my existing miniatures. At this point, I believe I've found the games that I'm looking for, so my interest in the "car crash waiting to happen" spectacle that is the rules in each new codex and each new edition of Warhammer and Warhammer 40k is entirely out of morbid interest and habit.

You'd be amazed how much more relaxing you can buy a model just because it looks nice, and not because you need to buy four of them for the awesome new elite unit in the codex.

Does that count as leaving GW?

Delephont wrote:....I haven't bought anything from them or their distribution network, and anything I've started but isn't finished is being sold to fund alternatives to GW.

I don't know, seems pretty logical to me.

See, you just aren't thinking this through enough. By supporting GW, you support the growth of alternatives.

-John Paul Bersigotti, John Mattews, and Jeff Smith (and about 20 others) are making WWII and Vietnam stuff at Battlefront.
-Ronnie, Steve, and Joe Neet are putting out good stuff at Mantic.
-John Stollard and Paul Sawyer are doing great Romans and historicals at Warlord.
-Perry's are over at Foundry, producing new plastic historicals, and put out Black Powder and Hail Ceasar!
-The 'Eavy Metal crew from Northern Europe has a cool line of stuff call Army Painter.
-Lonnie Mullins is at Wargames Factory
-Earnie and Barb Baker are running Architects of War, making some nice terrain and distributing historicals.
-Felix has his Avatars of War line, making great character figures.
-Bob Watts founded Heartbreaker Hobbies, produced all the Warzone figures, worked for RalPartha, and WOTC, founded Sabertooth, and now runs Privateer's manufacturing in Europe and translates the game for other countries.

Just think what we'll have in another decade if we keep buying GW figures, they keep training ex-GW employees, who then run off and start up new companies. It makes me proud to think that every time I sell space marines to another 12 year old that I'm really supporting all sorts of other games!

I guess I should clarify my definition of "finish"...
I had a set list of items I wanted to include in my army...which would bring it to a 2,000 point force.
Upon getting those items (again through the use of swap/Ebay when I can) I would consider that army finished.

There are dozens of people who have 'quit' who ordered from online discounters before the embargo came in. We even had two whole threads on the subject of final purchases.

Yet y'all come after me?

Real cute...

H.B.M.C. wrote:There are dozens of people who have 'quit' who ordered from online discounters before the embargo came in. We even had two whole threads on the subject of final purchases.

Yet y'all come after me?

But H.B.M.C., you must understand how your continued patronage of GW, however brief, is an absolute betrayal of everyone else who's annoyed at the latest troubles.

The Internet demands blood!

Maybe since he's not buying GW stuff, H.B.M.C will finally paint his stuff.

Now that’s just crazy talk!

H.B.M.C. wrote:There are dozens of people who have 'quit' who ordered from online discounters before the embargo came in. We even had two whole threads on the subject of final purchases.

Yet y'all come after me?

Real cute...

It could because you have the highest number of posts complaining about it as well as the highest bile content... so when you place an order worth several hundred dollars despite all this, people take note that you scream "I WANT GW TO FAIL" but then your actions add the caveat of " right after my next order.... unless I need something later so then after that order in that case..."

For those of you taking issue with HBMC, let me give you this to ponder on the tree of woe...

If he didn't love the product, he wouldn't be so vitriolic now would he? He wouldn't own 3 square miles of unpainted Imperial Guard tanks if he thought they were gak, now would he?

He gets angry for the same reasons I got angry (before my gnashing of teeth just became a Charlie Brown styled sigh and muttering of 'good grief'), because we love the game, the background, the minis and we've been into it for a very long time.

The end stages of a long term relationship are never easy and parting is, for me certainly, a sad time. I wanted 3 new armies this year and next, but I can't stomach the price any more, I actually couldn't stomach the price a while back but kept buying because of my love for the game and my involvement and attachment to everything to do with the GW games, whilst that conflict was occurring, it left me angry with GW, well I'm not now, they are under no obligation to sell their goods to me at any price other than the one they set. I am the one who says 'yes I will pay for that' or 'feth me, no bloody way' and now that I have gone a good many degrees past my patience with the pricing, no more armies, just some 'tidying up' purchases to my existing projects and then GW gets no more of my money.

Plenty more fish in the sea.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:Now, as I said this is not a representative sample, but, I think it is fair to qualify these results as "overwhelmingly negative".

Of a small, vocal minority off GW's customerbase and not even the target audiance.

Wrong.

That mentality, the one where this forum and others are places only frequented by old and bitter bastards like me, is false.

The target audience, the younger players, buy their figures and white dwarf magazine, and then they go online. The average 14 year old is far more computer savvy than the likes of us and the dakka polls recently showed the age range far wider than you think.

So the new players come to forums like this and read up on more experienced players posts. If they see and absorb enough, their GW experience is shortened and they are exposed to other game systems. There are several good and valid reasons why a sizeable amount of the older players post about GW in a negative fashion.

The argument about a vocal minority of old farts who don't purchase much is the same one GWs high command uses. It isn't true. If GW had taken the option of collaboration with forums and treating the internet as the future instead of treating forums as the enemy and the internet as 'something that will go away if we ignore it long enough', then perhaps things might be different, but as it is, the kids come here and learn the negative perception from the long time players.




As for my own buying of the product. I had planned on a dark eldar army, wood elf army and a massive, massive empire army with lots of forgeworld bits. All this crass greed around the resin switch and yet more plastic price hikes means that, yes, I will continue to purchase GW product, to finish my wife's tyranid army, finish my chaos warriors and perhaps some terrain.

Then that's it. I cannot justify the 'worth' of individual models to the price being charged for them. I might just spluge the money I would have spent on a big fish tank or something.

Wife and I are now certainly looking into warmahordes and malifaux.

post this into an email/letter to GW CEO/Board of Directors.

On a happy note, sine I am not buying, I am now painting...

2k space puppies here I come!

If GW ever acknowledged that the internet is actually used by their target audience and that they were learning about other companies and the disgruntlement of older players on sites like dakka dakka, then instead of asking themselves why and going on some kind of charm offensive, they'd just unleash a slew of Cease and Desist notices and court summons for 'using GW imagery' or some other nonsense.

The senior ranks are deeply embedded in a culture of self aggrandising, criticism is treated as an enemy action and the entire company is geared around bizarre military terminology and Gordon Gekko styled soundbites and 'finger guns' to each other across the board table.

I will place my faith and finances with more worthy businesses with better customer relations.

warboss wrote:It could because you have the highest number of posts complaining about it as well as the highest bile content... so when you place an order worth several hundred dollars despite all this, people take note that you scream "I WANT GW TO FAIL" but then your actions add the caveat of " right after my next order.... unless I need something later so then after that order in that case..."

Nice try, but no. My actions are no different to anyone else in my group – all have parted ways, all did their final orders – just as many many others have done here.

Troll harder folks.

Hello,
To be honest 90% of the items I buy are not new, they are all used so thier price point increase does not hit me as hard, I also have a barter sytem for my painting commisions so I think the price point will not hit as hard, until I want some new model that just came out.

Regards,
Carl

I can admit that GW has strong fluff and probably the best models on average in the whole hobby, but I'm a gamer first and foremost, and GW has the weakest rule set out of all the new games I've played or sampled. The choice is easy. They wont get another cent from me in the future.

@MeanGreenStompa - Whilst I wish you were right that Dakka and other forums were representative of the gamer community, my own experience oas that we aren't. This is anecdotal, admittedly, but I am an area rep for the GCN and visit multiple clubs and events around my area as well as a few home groups, plus I run my own small miniatures and gaming company, so I think my experience is moderately representative.

Most gamers I meet are like Sam_theRelentless. They think either that GW is the only option (if it even occurred to them to wonder) or that, if they have heard of alternatives, that GW is the best. The fact that GW is best neither in terms of model quality nor game design is never revealed because they never ask.

I'm constantly amazed at new gamers I meet who think that there aren't any clubs in the area. There are six within 20 minute drive, most of which can be found by doing a Google search for "Cheltenham Gloucester Wargamin", yet hardly anyone looks.

As a GW shareholder and proponent of the hobby beyond GW, my main concern is that GW is positioning its entry price too high, such that it is becoming harder and harder to persuade parents that it is worth kids even starting. GW games are the best gateway drug on the market.

But, on the other hand, if GW does price itself out of the market, then maybe it will provide an opening for another company to exploit that position.

R.

mikhaila wrote:See, you just aren't thinking this through enough. By supporting GW, you support the growth of alternatives.

-Lonnie Mullins is at Wargames Factory

That might not be the best example.

High_Marshal_Helbrecht wrote:I think and have always thought that GW make the best models and the best rulesets, with privateer press being a close second.

I suggest playing more rules systems and looking at other companies then because I'm afraid GW really don't make the best models or rulesets, thats not just a GW hater saying that its pretty much a well knon fact by now, even by GW I'd think

Stella Cadente wrote:

High_Marshal_Helbrecht wrote:I think and have always thought that GW make the best models and the best rulesets, with privateer press being a close second.

I suggest playing more rules systems and looking at other companies then because I'm afraid GW really don't make the best models or rulesets, thats not just a GW hater saying that its pretty much a well knon fact by now, even by GW I'd think

Really? I didn't know it. And I buy miniatures from all over the place. Can't say as any company I buy from makes superior minis to GW. Maybe on an even footing, but not superior. I'll let you have rulesets though, as I don't have enough experience to comment on that issue.

I will continue to buy GW stuff, but not necessarily from GW.

I've been into GW since about 1989, and I have seen this company do many great things, but I have also seen it become the paranoid, insular, greedy & downright vindictive company that it is today.

It is not with rage, but with a deep sadness that GW will no longer be my number one choice when buying figures.


I will continue to buy BL novels as I love the fluff, but from Indies, Amazon or Waterstones.

I will probably buy the odd paint or wash (online retailers), but I will look more into Vallejo & P3.

Modelling supplies from local model shops or online retailers.

I will switch to other model lines. I already like the look of some of the land forces for Dystopian Wars, I want some FoW Vietnam stuff & maybe a few more German tanks, maybe some Black Scorpion undead pirates.

I may Keep all the stuff I have and work on more conversions, or I may sell most of it and put the money towards the above.

I am also seriously considering ditching my WD subscription -and I have every issue back to 136.

htj wrote:

Stella Cadente wrote:

High_Marshal_Helbrecht wrote:I think and have always thought that GW make the best models and the best rulesets, with privateer press being a close second.

I suggest playing more rules systems and looking at other companies then because I'm afraid GW really don't make the best models or rulesets, thats not just a GW hater saying that its pretty much a well knon fact by now, even by GW I'd think

Really? I didn't know it. And I buy miniatures from all over the place. Can't say as any company I buy from makes superior minis to GW. Maybe on an even footing, but not superior.

well I didn't say other companies produce superior models, victrix are probably the best out there and equal to GW in quality, but they win because its 60 models for the same price as a crummy tactical squad.

I dont know the reaction, if they care or not, if they trash the letter or read this pool but to be honest I have to say that as ceo any letter I would receive concerning 600 possible targets opinions that move inside the bubble that my company is in, even if biased, or not representative its 600 possible clients opinions here and I at least read the thing and reply.

You can say 600 is small beans but if my company relied only in word of mouth to pass the company image these internet 600 buggers would have a BIG importance for me.

Stella Cadente wrote:

htj wrote:

Stella Cadente wrote:

High_Marshal_Helbrecht wrote:I think and have always thought that GW make the best models and the best rulesets, with privateer press being a close second.

I suggest playing more rules systems and looking at other companies then because I'm afraid GW really don't make the best models or rulesets, thats not just a GW hater saying that its pretty much a well knon fact by now, even by GW I'd think

Really? I didn't know it. And I buy miniatures from all over the place. Can't say as any company I buy from makes superior minis to GW. Maybe on an even footing, but not superior.

well I didn't say other companies produce superior models, victrix are probably the best out there and equal to GW in quality, but they win because its 60 models for the same price as a crummy tactical squad.

That's fair enough. Although I do feel that GW's multipart plastic kits are the best out there. However, the cost does offset the quality in terms of intrinsic value. Of course, at that level it's all just opinion.

htj wrote:

Stella Cadente wrote:

htj wrote:

Stella Cadente wrote:

High_Marshal_Helbrecht wrote:I think and have always thought that GW make the best models and the best rulesets, with privateer press being a close second.

I suggest playing more rules systems and looking at other companies then because I'm afraid GW really don't make the best models or rulesets, thats not just a GW hater saying that its pretty much a well knon fact by now, even by GW I'd think

Really? I didn't know it. And I buy miniatures from all over the place. Can't say as any company I buy from makes superior minis to GW. Maybe on an even footing, but not superior.

well I didn't say other companies produce superior models, victrix are probably the best out there and equal to GW in quality, but they win because its 60 models for the same price as a crummy tactical squad.

That's fair enough. Although I do feel that GW's multipart plastic kits are the best out there. However, the cost does offset the quality in terms of intrinsic value. Of course, at that level it's all just opinion.

opinion indeed, as the idea of building 10 mens legs, torsos, arms, sholduers, weapons, backpacks, heads+other bits of no value to me is extremely tedious and takes more time than building 60 mens arms, heads and backpacks, which to me makes the superior multipart kit, no point having all those bits if by the end you want to curl up and die from boredom

precinctomega wrote:@MeanGreenStompa - Whilst I wish you were right that Dakka and other forums were representative of the gamer community, my own experience oas that we aren't. This is anecdotal, admittedly, but I am an area rep for the GCN and visit multiple clubs and events around my area as well as a few home groups, plus I run my own small miniatures and gaming company, so I think my experience is moderately representative.

Most gamers I meet are like Sam_theRelentless. They think either that GW is the only option (if it even occurred to them to wonder) or that, if they have heard of alternatives, that GW is the best. The fact that GW is best neither in terms of model quality nor game design is never revealed because they never ask.

I'm constantly amazed at new gamers I meet who think that there aren't any clubs in the area. There are six within 20 minute drive, most of which can be found by doing a Google search for "Cheltenham Gloucester Wargamin", yet hardly anyone looks.

As a GW shareholder and proponent of the hobby beyond GW, my main concern is that GW is positioning its entry price too high, such that it is becoming harder and harder to persuade parents that it is worth kids even starting. GW games are the best gateway drug on the market.

But, on the other hand, if GW does price itself out of the market, then maybe it will provide an opening for another company to exploit that position.

R.

Ah yes, the hordes of kids. I know and you are right, the 10 - 16 year old bracket is a large one for the games workshop stores and they have concentrated their attention there, but that pool is steadily decreasing.

GW captured a big chunk of that market around the time of pokemon and we saw it in the 'red age' of miniatures back around 2000, that was the 'baby boom' of GWs market and then was followed up with the LOTR boost. But that market has been dwindling ever since, especially as WOW and other mmos have taken a sizeable chunk of the target audience and provided them with an instant hit rather than the involved work that wargaming requires.

You make an excellent point, the price rise will also price parents of those children out of the market as well, because those parents are not interested in it and will consider buying their son or daughter a new PC or sports equipment or frankly any number of things better and cheaper than the current price of a complete 40k army.

Spending time in stores, what you hear from mum or dad on buying the boxed intro game is interest in occupying the child's time, learning maths, strategy and patience and not bothering the parent. If it costs 1k to get them an army, then the parent is better served getting them a brand new pc and a few games.

It may be that GW gets another booster of new blood with the Hobbit movies, but I don't think that will be anything like as many as LOTR or that it changes the longterm health of the company given the obscure business direction.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, best thing for GW IMO, is healthy competition to force some Darwinian changes on the company, especially on it's thinking at the top.

Nope, i shall merrily continue to buy from them.

yeah, this has been the last straw for me(of course the fact that the prices are just out of my finical reach is also a key point). I may buy second hand models, but I will never but directly from GW anymore. sadly this means I won't be finishing off my Lizardmen(could have used some Sallies), and my GF's Dwarves will just have to do without all the bells and whistles I wanted to get for her. as it stands this means I will have to change directions completely as I see very few models out there I actually like the look of(Mantic has nice models, but due to a very negative interaction I refuse to give them my business) so my fantasy armies will remain incomplete.

though I have started to go back older games I miss playing such as D&D 3.5 and Battletech, I have also picked up Flames of War WWII, and I am fighting the urge to start a new army for their Vietnam game.

I am also in the process of getting my local group to put the 40k aside and play these games as well, hopefully they will listen to reason and we can help but a dent into GW's side.

19 people love the cool-aid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, best thing for GW IMO, is healthy competition to force some Darwinian changes on the company, especially on it's thinking at the top.

There is already healthy competition out there, and more show up every day. GW just refuses to accept/acknowledge it.

I think now that with all the threads on this subject and from evidence that came before. People will for the most part people will carry on as per usual.

People will spend X amount of their disposable income on miniatures and will just end up getting less for their money.

The only thing that may change is perhaps people will be less inclined to begin a new army or start the hobby in the first place.

GW will eventually put up the results of the financial year and most likely see around a 5% drop in profit, at least with the miniatures.

The only thing I think will make them more profitable is royalties from when space marine comes out, if it's any good they'll probably do ok and then dark millennium maybe next year will boost profits again.

So GW is not going to worry too much about the miniatures side of the business for long.


So in conclusion, miniatures 5% drop in sales, but profit up for next 2 years at least, from royalties.

I sure hope you're referring to something besides the resin models for your first point. Is resin cheaper than metal? Yes. But they didn't just replace that material, they revamped the molding process. The models are more expensive because the molding of them is more expensive.

I've been thinking about this pretty hard, and I'm staying on. Sure, they prices are getting higher and higher, but it's not like I'm forced to spend any more than I want to. At the end of the day, I like GW's minis, and I like GW's games. I don't like the company (who could) but I'm not going to punish myself but not allowing myself things I want out of spite. A considerable amount of my hobby budget goes elsewhere already, so overall I think I'm coming out alright on the deal.

jab4962 wrote:I sure hope you're referring to something besides the resin models for your first point. Is resin cheaper than metal? Yes. But they didn't just replace that material, they revamped the molding process. The models are more expensive because the molding of them is more expensive.

That's called initial outlay. If they reduced the price of the models, they'd sell more of them and rapidly compensate themselves for that outlay and retain customers they have now instead lost.

Given they are an established company, the initial outlay should have easily been countered by the reduction in cost of materials over a time period projection. They wouldn't have converted to resin if it was going to work out more expensive for them.

The price rise is greed.

I am still in as well. I hate the price increases, but I am too far invested in the game to just walk away. I may eventually start playing another game on top of 40k since the initial shock caused me to view some other miniature games and I am loving what I see (thanks Warmachine and Infinity).


Love the rules, love the game, love the players, hate some of the company decisions. Yep, that sums up GW for me.

precinctomega wrote:
Most gamers I meet are like Sam_theRelentless. They think either that GW is the only option (if it even occurred to them to wonder) or that, if they have heard of alternatives, that GW is the best. The fact that GW is best neither in terms of model quality nor game design is never revealed because they never ask.

Ignorance is not necessarily a bad thing...

Anyway, forget whether they're the best or not, because that can only be judged objectively.

Most gamers are like me because they stumble across the hobby for the first time in their lives, and what do they see? 40k, less often WHFB, but always GW. Especially in remote areas like Utapau and South Africa, where GW is by far the most well-advertised brand of miniatures. And by well-advertised I mean relatively.

I haven't tried to search for new game systems (and after a while on Dakka I am aware there are others, which many think are better) because I'm happy with what I've got. I like the hobby GW has created, and I'm not saying I'm not open to suggestions, but the point is that that that's what many gamers feel: they like what they have. If they're willing to pay the price for it, their problem. What I certainly don't like is GW's business practices, but it doesn't affect my hobby.

Why should it?

Sam__theRelentless wrote:

precinctomega wrote:
Most gamers I meet are like Sam_theRelentless. They think either that GW is the only option (if it even occurred to them to wonder) or that, if they have heard of alternatives, that GW is the best. The fact that GW is best neither in terms of model quality nor game design is never revealed because they never ask.

Ignorance is not necessarily a bad thing...

Anyway, forget whether they're the best or not, because that can only be judged objectively.

Most gamers are like me because they stumble across the hobby for the first time in their lives, and what do they see? 40k, less often WHFB, but always GW. Especially in remote areas like Utapau and South Africa, where GW is by far the most well-advertised brand of miniatures. And by well-advertised I mean relatively.

I haven't tried to search for new game systems (and after a while on Dakka I am aware there are others, which many think are better) because I'm happy with what I've got. I like the hobby GW has created, and I'm not saying I'm not open to suggestions, but the point is that that that's what many gamers feel: they like what they have. If they're willing to pay the price for it, their problem. What I certainly don't like is GW's business practices, but it doesn't affect my hobby.

Why should it?

It does not because your parents are able to afford it and obviously don't object to paying the prices. You are not paying for anything else nor are you an adult. I can see that you taking the title 'relentless' for your posting is apt, it is a shame you can't seem to include relevant content as well.

You are fervently in the target market category and have seemingly limitless amounts of money or no grasp on the notions of relative value, nor do you seem to care about that in regards purchasing a product.

Firstly not all parents are as wealthy or indulgent as yours appear to be and secondly, wait until you pay your own bills, thirdly, I don't imagine many of the 'rest of the world' gamers who used the Euro wholesalers to get their minis will be rallying behind your cheerleading...

I would suggest you cease the 'yeah but it's great stuff and i don't care about the price of it and am not interested in other stuff and i'm putting my fingers in my ears and shouting lalala' posts and either post some viable content or bow out, because your spamming the repeated message of 'I've just discovered this stuff and I'm gonna drown you all out with how awesome I think it is' is going to result in other posters delivering more than the light broadside I just gave you.

Learn to discuss or make your point and not to just post the same thing 10 times.

The business practices affect my hobby because they mean I can no longer afford to continue expanding it.

Love the Universe, love the minitures, love the game, love my army. Can I afford to keep it up? No.

I had three armies planned, (IG Armoured Company, TS Relictors, WHFB Vampire Counts) and have been looking at Inquisitor and Battlefleet Gothic. However, the prices mean I cannot indulge this hobby anymore.

Heck, its cheaper for me to expand my fencing and buy some quality kit than it is to buy a new GW army. Clarification edit: Roughly £250 for a complete set of top-of-the-range Leon Paul fencing kit.

CadianXV wrote:The business practices affect my hobby because they mean I can no longer afford to continue expanding it.

Love the Universe, love the minitures, love the game, love my army. Can I afford to keep it up? No.

I had three armies planned, (IG Armoured Company, TS Relictors, WHFB Vampire Counts) and have been looking at Inquisitor and Battlefleet Gothic. However, the prices mean I cannot indulge this hobby anymore.

Heck, its cheaper for me to expand my fencing and buy some quality kit than it is to buy a new GW army. Clarification edit: Roughly £250 for a complete set of top-of-the-range Leon Paul fencing kit.

At first I thought you mean't fencing as in around your house....I was going to say, GW really has put you off the hobby

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Sam__theRelentless wrote:

precinctomega wrote:
Most gamers I meet are like Sam_theRelentless. They think either that GW is the only option (if it even occurred to them to wonder) or that, if they have heard of alternatives, that GW is the best. The fact that GW is best neither in terms of model quality nor game design is never revealed because they never ask.

Ignorance is not necessarily a bad thing...

Anyway, forget whether they're the best or not, because that can only be judged objectively.

Most gamers are like me because they stumble across the hobby for the first time in their lives, and what do they see? 40k, less often WHFB, but always GW. Especially in remote areas like Utapau and South Africa, where GW is by far the most well-advertised brand of miniatures. And by well-advertised I mean relatively.

I haven't tried to search for new game systems (and after a while on Dakka I am aware there are others, which many think are better) because I'm happy with what I've got. I like the hobby GW has created, and I'm not saying I'm not open to suggestions, but the point is that that that's what many gamers feel: they like what they have. If they're willing to pay the price for it, their problem. What I certainly don't like is GW's business practices, but it doesn't affect my hobby.

Why should it?

It does not because your parents are able to afford it and obviously don't object to paying the prices. You are not paying for anything else nor are you an adult. I can see that you taking the title 'relentless' for your posting is apt, it is a shame you can't seem to include relevant content as well.

You are fervently in the target market category and have seemingly limitless amounts of money or no grasp on the notions of relative value, nor do you seem to care about that in regards purchasing a product.

Firstly not all parents are as wealthy or indulgent as yours appear to be and secondly, wait until you pay your own bills, thirdly, I don't imagine many of the 'rest of the world' gamers who used the Euro wholesalers to get their minis will be rallying behind your cheerleading...

I would suggest you cease the 'yeah but it's great stuff and i don't care about the price of it and am not interested in other stuff and i'm putting my fingers in my ears and shouting lalala' posts and either post some viable content or bow out, because your spamming the repeated message of 'I've just discovered this stuff and I'm gonna drown you all out with how awesome I think it is' is going to result in other posters delivering more than the light broadside I just gave you.

Learn to discuss or make your point and not to just post the same thing 10 times.

What? No, just because I'm young does not mean I don't buy my own miniatures. Ever wondered why I only have a <1000pts army, unpainted? It's because I have to pay for them myself. Gaming isn't even my greatest hobby, fencing swallows the rest of my income, and my parents' too. Besides, do you think I don't KNOW that I don't pay the bills yet? I understand that I cannot advise on or comment on things related to totaling up the income, I'm not stupid. Nevertheless, I feel the price changes etc. as well. Not as much as those of you paying their own bills, but that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to voice an opinion.

Regardless of how cool I think the game is, if it comes down to it I will choose my competitive fencing over Warhammer. Why?
Primarily because I have been doing it for longer.
Secondarily, because buying an FIE-approved foil from Leon Paul at 90 pounds is a lot more value for money (fun-wise, opportunity-wise, but maybe not durability-wise) than spending that same amount on plastic Marines, which is the problem with many people's finances right now.
This doesn't mean I am not entitled to believe certain things, namely the stuff I have been posting already, which I won't repost in case it offends you.

And how have I been posting the same point 10 times? I am posting with the same underlying motive and the same unshakable opinion, but the content discussed is different and relevant. It is exactly the same as what you have been doing, it's just that I'm not as good at disguising my feelings, on account of being relatively new to the whole forum environment thing. I apologize for any n00bness that was genuinely silly of me to post. But I am entitled to say how awesome it is just as much as the people who say it's not awesome are entitled to say the very opposite.

What if you were in my situation? I feel offended by the people who repeatedly say that "WE MUST ALL END GW'S REIGN BY NOT BUYING ANY MORE STUFF" becuase they feel I haven't gotten the message.

Now that I've given my opinion, I am going to be the bigger man, and I will bow out. Oh yeah, and I'm called "relentless" because I pride my determination, not my stubbornness. There's a separate USR for that.

Edit: CadianXV posted as I was writing this. Just like to point that out.

I will not buy anything from GW until they lower the prices back to 35$ for a tactical squad.
Also look at the price for this guy.......
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1160096a

AlexHolker wrote:

mikhaila wrote:See, you just aren't thinking this through enough. By supporting GW, you support the growth of alternatives.

-Lonnie Mullins is at Wargames Factory

That might not be the best example.

When I'm not being totally serious, not using the best example is part of the fun.)

warboss wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:There are dozens of people who have 'quit' who ordered from online discounters before the embargo came in. We even had two whole threads on the subject of final purchases.

Yet y'all come after me?

Real cute...

It could because you have the highest number of posts complaining about it as well as the highest bile content... so when you place an order worth several hundred dollars despite all this, people take note that you scream "I WANT GW TO FAIL" but then your actions add the caveat of " right after my next order.... unless I need something later so then after that order in that case..."

Exactly.

CadianXV wrote:
I had three armies planned, (IG Armoured Company, TS Relictors, WHFB Vampire Counts) and have been looking at Inquisitor and Battlefleet Gothic. However, the prices mean I cannot indulge this hobby anymore.

Well, not sure about the Relictors, but if you're not going to be playing in a GW store...

IG Armoured Company:

£14.85 for 18 of these multipart soldiers including special weapons, at wayland games.


£21 for this heavy tank, choice of turret options

£18 for this troop transport, choice of turret options

£21 for this heavy tank, choice of turret options

All those here:
http://www.oldcrowmodels.co.uk/25vehicles.htm
with a load more light vehicles.

Vampires Counts:

That's 40 skeletons for £25

That's 40 'revenants' (armoured skeletons) for £25

That's 10 wraiths at £13

That's 30 zombies at £23

That's 20 ghouls for £15


Want some blood knights that put GW's to shame?
gamezone miniatures





each at £8.50 from Wayland Games, that's a total of £42.50 for those, instead of £61.50 for the GW ones.

Vampires to lead em all?


Leonora, £4.75 at Wayland Games


vampiress £9.35 at Wayland Games

And about a million more from Reaper and a host of other companies.


Both those armies are viable and I've been pondering them myself.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

CadianXV wrote:
I had three armies planned, (IG Armoured Company, TS Relictors, WHFB Vampire Counts) and have been looking at Inquisitor and Battlefleet Gothic. However, the prices mean I cannot indulge this hobby anymore.

Well, not sure about the Relictors, but if you're not going to be playing in a GW store...

I sourced my entire tomb-kings army from other vendors. Easily done if you don't plan to play at GW or GW sponsored events.

I've never really liked the Warmachine minitures, or the sleekness of OldCrow vehicles. But those undead minitures are fantastic, particularly the 'Blood Knights'. Fits with the Dark Bretonian idea I had in my mind too.
See, this is what has been predicted actually happening. I am sorely tempted to switch over to these brand of minis, denying GW my custom. I'm a casual gamer anyway, so tourney legit mins are not a concern.

Thank you MGS for the links! Vandil, I'd be interested in seeing your TK. PM me if you upload them to the Gallery, would you?

I have cut back big time over the last year. This is the final nail in the coffin though. I am starting new games now and they won't even see GW paint. Time to switch over to P3

Dont buy any new GW stuff anymore due to the rises.

Pick up second hand on ebay/car boots to try and finish off what I already have.

But the recent changes were the last straw for me!


positive is its made me look into other games/models/systems and some are alot of fun!

Hello,
Up a bit a individual metioned Gamezone Minitures, let me say this the oned I have gotten from them were resin and amazing in detail, also this if offered http://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/miniatures/gamezone-miniatures/gamezone-miniatures-dark-elves-bundle.html for 199.00 this allows you to continue to play fairly cheap while keeping your fluff, they have other models as well including Undead, and Chaos, now if they would only make future armies.

Regards,
Carl

Bought a solid 3 year supply of GW models before the price increase ($1500 or so) that will take my primary army to 10000 playable points, and give me all the options I want for an army for tourneys or whatever. Any list will be buildable for me and I don't feel I need much more than that.
This whole deal really only affects FotM players who need to buy ALL THE TIME and in large amounts. Most people will just buy one box set every two months instead of one a month or whatever. Money value changes all the time.

Soon enough we'll all be geezers. I'm sure there were guys saying "Man as soon as that cheeseburger costs 10 cents I am never touching another one"... Yeah sure. Times change, money changes. Cry about it if you want to, but its just a factor in life.

GW just has a bad way of breaking harsh news.

seanzor.
If you believe its ONLY affecting FotM players then I realy aught to enlighten you.
All products rise at the rate of inflation on average.
People accept this.
However as GWplc have increased prices over the rate of inflation consistantly over the last decade , the effects is, that the price has nearly DOUBLED over this period ,when you remove the effects of inflation.

Many people can still afford to pay GW plc prices.
However, as GWplc sell a 'social event' NOT just '...toy soldiers to kiddies..'There comes a time when vets switching to other products , and new players are being prevented from starting due to prohibitive pricing.Actualy has greater detriment to GW plc than the annual price rise can cover.As popularity carries ALOT of sway.If the percentage of people playing GW games drops below 60% in a club then OTHER systems take hold, and then new players get a better choice.

As the customer base shrinks,(which it, is as sales volumes are falling year on year.)Then those customers left have to pay ever increasing levy to make up for GWplcs inept managment.
Also in conjunction with these negative factors is the acceleration in price increase , due to the distribution of wealth.
ONLY 5% of the population earn over £50k.(Twice average wage in the uk.)
Yet over 30% earn under HALF the average wage.

So when the pricing moves out of one 'wage band 'into the next , you have to double , then triple , then quadruple the price , due to the drop in the size fo the customer base.
When GW are primarily targeting those earning over £50k a year in the uk, a 10 man SM tac box would be priced at £300.JUST for GW plc to continue at its current rate of decline.

So unless you have at least £100k disposable income, and 10 buddues in the same boat, GWplcs inept managment WILL affect you at some point. :

Yeah, but if I buy everything in an army, and then paint it up and play it at my leisure, the worst thing anyone can do is come up with a ruleset that says that my army is not valid/legal in the new rules. At which point I decide that I should playing the 'old version' with my models.

Now if I see a new army every...say 6 months...and decide that I should have this army so that I can 'win' or whatever. Then I either A) sell current army to fund that purchase, B) trade army for new army, or C) fund new army out of new funds. At which point I am definitely being effected by price increases and the like.

Hence why I say FotM buyers are really effected. Veterans can just hold on to the models they have and continue playing.

It does affect more than just the FoTM players. There are many factors there you aren't taking into account.

Such as:

1. People play the game for different reasons. I personally love making characterful and interesting forces. This calls for sometimes purchasing multiple kits to make one unit through kit-bashing strictly to get the right theme or look you are going for. This already took a -Massive- hit when they stopped selling individual sprues and metal bitz, and increasing the prices further makes massive conversion and kit bashing jobs less likely.
Some enjoy painting and modeling more than the game itself, and as such will not be content just building and painting a single fully loaded army and playing with it for eternity. While it's easy to say for those people to go and buy other products for that, I understand the want to stay with GW's mini's for a number of reasons.

2. Stagnation happens. People get tired of playing, and playing against, the same army all of the time. Even if you have x thousand points of y army, eventually some people get tired of playing y army and want to play z instead. Starting new armies is prohibitively expensive as is, and again, hiking prices and limiting retailer options doesn't help.

3. Old rules get invalidated by new ones. So you'll just play with the old ones? But what if everyone else is moving on to the new? It's a social hobby, you have to have opponents in order to play, and many aren't going to try to backtrack an edition when they've moved on to a new one. Hence why there's frequently lots of talk among vets about old editions, both good and bad, while playing a 5th ed game of 40K.


Now, to be fair, none of those are absolute, but the change does affect more people than those who just jump to whatever the big new thing is.