15829
Post by: Redemption
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/05/05/network-news-the-6th-edition-leak-and/
OMG finally finally my poor little site is fixed thanks for the patience everyone! So anyway it looks like I started some rumor spilling last week as everyone in the rumor mill decided to jump in the game. I hope what I am about to post is not already outdated, but with life and the server repair I haven’t have time to keep up.
Ok, let us get ready for some fun guys 6th is about two months away so let us set up some ground rules first off.
That leaked 6th edition pdf was and is still a complete fabrication.
40k 6th edition is going to be much closer to Fantasy 8th and 40k 2nd edition than anything else.
GW still has rumor lock down in place, so these leaks are for the most part things that have been seen before from previous editions of Games Workshop games. This is to protect sources from the long arm of GW.
Ok, with that said lets get to it.
Let us start with 6th edition fluff progression.
The Imperium is fracturing and the Space Marines are starting to separate themselves from the Lords of Terra. The heretical and xenophobia has gotten to a tipping point causing many chapters to take actions against the “best wishes” of many in the Imperium.
A discovery of galactic importance has happened.
At a time before right before the Horus Heresy the Emperor had intrusted Roboute Guilliman in the protection of one Xenos race that was completely immune the temptations of Chaos and would prove the ultimate key to the destruction of Chaos. The Horus Heresy ended such plans. Fast forward today with discovery of these lost correspondences, it is believed by the Ultramarines and others that the Tau are that lost race. So now instead of being charge with their destruction the Astartes are the Tau protectors.
Rules changes
•Every unit gets a 6+ save vs. all Psychic Powers.
•Random Charge Lengths are in
•Pre-measuring is in.
•Random Battle field effects are in.
•All armies can purchase buildings for placement on the battlefield.
•Psychic powers are selected during deployment. (except Grey Knights)
•Deployment and Missions types have doubled.
Get ready for the Big one..
ALLIES ARE BACK IN
That is right allies are back in and this will be according to fluff and will have certain restrictions. So for instance Tyranids will not have any allies. Tau with all Space Marine Chapters. Necrons with Blood Angels. Imperial Guard with Space Marines. Chaos Space Marines with Demons. If it fits the fluff it will be done.
This is just to get you guys started.
Expect more to come out as we get closer to the impeding release of Warhammer 40k 6th edition.
Oh again forgot to mention in the CSM rumor post to add that Oblit options will be even more expansive with close combat load out available.
I personally hope it's bollocks, especially the Allies bit, but thought I'd share it anyway.
49292
Post by: Eiríkr
Forgive my ignorance in this as I was still a kid when 2nd edition was out, is it a good thing that 6th rolls closer to it or?
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
40k 6th edition is going to be much closer to Fantasy 8th
Wow, GW doesn't really learn, do they..."Let's go ahead and just ruin both systems, what do we care! lolz!"
Oh well, time to find something else to do with my time for the next 4 years. Here's hoping 7th edition isn't a pile of crap I guess.
And I'm sure all the Space Marine players out there will be absolutely thrilled that their armies are all supposed to babysit the Tau now.
34906
Post by: Pacific
Regarding the background, I kind of like the idea of the Marines moving away from the Imperium as that kind of thing has been widely written about before. The Astartes chapters are already pretty autonomous so this would just be an extension of that.
The idea surrounding the Tau? That could be a game-breaker.
Consider our own history, religious dogma and attempts to introduce new elements to that religion and arguments about its form, the 'heresies' if you will. If you totalled up the number of people killed in the resulting wars over the past 2000 years you would have a pretty impressive sum.
Now think for a moment regarding the nature of the Imperium. It's religious traditions regarding the Emperor and the sanctity of humankind stretch back more than 10,000 years. The Inquisition of the 40k universe and their powers make the Catholic Inquisition look like a bunch of big girl's blouses by comparison. But at least in part such harsh penalties are by necessity - the constant threat of chaos meaning a fate worse than death can await entire systems if they fail in their task, which is why they hold the ultimate sanction in the form of exterminatus.
So, in a universe that must be full of a million crackpots and doom-sayers each coming up with their own version of events, how would the inhabitants of the year 40,000 view some kind of 'new' info proclaiming that the Tau must be protected, and that humans are no longer at the top of that divine tree? No matter how authentic it might be (perhaps the Emperor on a VHS vid saying "look this is real, honest!!") the current hierarchy within the Imperium - the massive power structures and modes of control, that make the Catholic church look like a yachting club by comparison, that extend to a million worlds would have a vested interest in ensuring that the 'evidence' never saw the light of day and the current hierarchy stayed in place.
Put simply, the entire concept (and I think this will be the case, no matter how well written), based on everything we have been told about the Imperium in the background over the past 20 years, is absolute nonsense.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Sounds weird (except pre-measuring, Battle field effects, more missions. which all could be guesses). Don't like most of it. But sometimes BoK is the bearer of bad news (Sororitas WD only Codex).
Would it end Chaos Tau threads? Sadly no, but I would get new texts to copy-paste into those threads 
Pacific wrote:The Inquisition of the 40k universe and their powers make the Catholic Inquisition look like a bunch of big girl's blouses by comparison.
You mean, the Inquisition would purge filthy Xenos with their Jokaero armies?
51948
Post by: The Infinite
Don't fret, I remember hearing all those rumours regarding the change in the setting for 3rd edition...
and 4th...
I rate the likelihood of GW actually progressing the 40k storyline somewhere near to the likelihood of the Tooth fairy being real.
14152
Post by: CT GAMER
If true I like the move to more mission/deployment types and more varied terrain and battlefield effects, etc.
These can lead to play variety and facilitate story-based/scenario play. 
What I am worried about is the potential abuse of allies by the twink/mathhammer/tourney crowd: BA + Necrons?!? WTF?
(And these types won't be doing it for 'fluff reasons", they will be using it to optimize if possible) 
44272
Post by: Azreal13
Hmmmm..
This lot has crossed a line for me. The initial batch of rumours before the "server outage" were plausible, but I'm struggling with these TBH.
Especially the "these leaks are for the most part things that have been seen before from previous editions of Games Workshop games. This is to protect sources from the long arm of GW."
I read that as more "these are essentially rehashes and wishlisting, so I'm writing this to cover myself because 'a wizard did it' won't hold enough water"
21596
Post by: DarthSpader
Pics or its wishlisting
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Redemption wrote:http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/05/05/network-news-the-6th-edition-leak-and/
OMG finally finally my poor little site is fixed thanks for the patience everyone! So anyway it looks like I started some rumor spilling last week as everyone in the rumor mill decided to jump in the game. I hope what I am about to post is not already outdated, but with life and the server repair I haven’t have time to keep up.
Ok, let us get ready for some fun guys 6th is about two months away so let us set up some ground rules first off.
That leaked 6th edition pdf was and is still a complete fabrication.
40k 6th edition is going to be much closer to Fantasy 8th and 40k 2nd edition than anything else.
GW still has rumor lock down in place, so these leaks are for the most part things that have been seen before from previous editions of Games Workshop games. This is to protect sources from the long arm of GW.
Ok, with that said lets get to it.
Let us start with 6th edition fluff progression.
The Imperium is fracturing and the Space Marines are starting to separate themselves from the Lords of Terra. The heretical and xenophobia has gotten to a tipping point causing many chapters to take actions against the “best wishes” of many in the Imperium.
A discovery of galactic importance has happened.
At a time before right before the Horus Heresy the Emperor had intrusted Roboute Guilliman in the protection of one Xenos race that was completely immune the temptations of Chaos and would prove the ultimate key to the destruction of Chaos. The Horus Heresy ended such plans. Fast forward today with discovery of these lost correspondences, it is believed by the Ultramarines and others that the Tau are that lost race. So now instead of being charge with their destruction the Astartes are the Tau protectors.
Rules changes
•Every unit gets a 6+ save vs. all Psychic Powers.
•Random Charge Lengths are in
•Pre-measuring is in.
•Random Battle field effects are in.
•All armies can purchase buildings for placement on the battlefield.
•Psychic powers are selected during deployment. (except Grey Knights)
•Deployment and Missions types have doubled.
Get ready for the Big one..
ALLIES ARE BACK IN
That is right allies are back in and this will be according to fluff and will have certain restrictions. So for instance Tyranids will not have any allies. Tau with all Space Marine Chapters. Necrons with Blood Angels. Imperial Guard with Space Marines. Chaos Space Marines with Demons. If it fits the fluff it will be done.
This is just to get you guys started.
Expect more to come out as we get closer to the impeding release of Warhammer 40k 6th edition.
Oh again forgot to mention in the CSM rumor post to add that Oblit options will be even more expansive with close combat load out available.
I personally hope it's bollocks, especially the Allies bit, but thought I'd share it anyway.
Me too, these changes to the background are AWEFUL 
- insert the new guys at pre heresy.
- protects them with the blue poster boys
- splits up the one realm that works because its united...
- re-introduces allies ...
Do not want.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
At a time before right before the Horus Heresy the Emperor had intrusted Roboute Guilliman in the protection of one Xenos race that was completely immune the temptations of Chaos and would prove the ultimate key to the destruction of Chaos.
Uhh... ok?
The Horus Heresy ended such plans. Fast forward today with discovery of these lost correspondences, it is believed by the Ultramarines and others that the Tau are that lost race.
No.
So now instead of being charge with their destruction the Astartes are the Tau protectors.
NO!
My Ultramarines do not protect the Tau. They kill the Tau. That is all they do. All the time. The Tau exist only to be killed.
This sounds... more than stupid. The Marines distancing themselves from the Lords of Terra - that I can see - but being the protectors of Tau? No, no, no and also no! Automatically Appended Next Post: Redemption wrote:Rules changes
•Every unit gets a 6+ save vs. all Psychic Powers.
•Random Charge Lengths are in
•Random Battle field effects are in.
Ah good. Let's add even more dice rolls to the game. That'll speed things up...
41111
Post by: Daston
Sounds like BS to me.
The Necron and BA is proof of this.
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
You have to, H. Your Spiritual Liege commands it.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
H.B.M.C. wrote:My Ultramarines do not protect the Tau. They kill the Tau. That is all they do. All the time. The Tau exist only to be killed.
You should step back a moment from your Deathwatch script
45990
Post by: gilljoy
Only thing I like the sound of is the allies rule but really can't see this coming to pass
15829
Post by: Redemption
Allies would completely screw over any sense of 'balance' 40k had. Remember when IG could take Daemonhunter Inquisitors with unlimited range Ld10 psychic hoods and anti-deepstrike Mystics? Now imagine that with every army capable of taking the strongest units from other codexes to cover their weaknesses.
39575
Post by: Darkseid
The fluff part sounds BS, so does the allies part. I don't say that often, but this time I'll believe it when I see it.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Redemption wrote:Allies would completely screw over any sense of 'balance' 40k had.
As said: More like Fantasy 8th edition
Will somebody sell a good print of the pancake rules?
34906
Post by: Pacific
That fluff? A load of bs.
I hope so too, but it is almost so ridiculous, that it passes the ridiculousness threshold where it might actually be true!
31545
Post by: AlexHolker
What HBMC said. Space Marines live to kill xenos. Tau are xenos. Somebody - either GW or BoK - apparently can't do the math.
Also, stealing the Sisters' anti-psionic save sucks.
49519
Post by: gregornet
Allowing almost every player multiple codices along with even more difficult processes for several key phases of the game? That does not at all sound like the streamlining process GW has adhered to in favor of their primary target market. I can, however see this as an effort to sell more minis without the sticker shock of starting an entirely new army. I remain skeptical.
5946
Post by: Miguelsan
Rules changes
•Every unit gets a 6+ save vs. all Psychic Powers.
•Random Charge Lengths are in
Just what we need, GW pressing to up the point limit to 2000 and extra rolls to slow the game, what was that stuff about beer and preztels again?
•Pre-measuring is in.
Ok I can live with this.
•Random Battle field effects are in.
•All armies can purchase buildings for placement on the battlefield.
Sounds fun, I might love buying trenches for my whole IG army and play WWI
•Psychic powers are selected during deployment. (except Grey Knights)
Lets make it random too and see how Eldar players (I have an Eldar army too) weep about their Farseers.
•Deployment and Missions types have doubled.
Variety is never bad I guess.
M.
6251
Post by: NecronLord3
Daston wrote:Sounds like BS to me.
The Necron and BA is proof of this.
Is that a joke, or have you not read the Blood Angels codex?
44067
Post by: DarkStarSabre
...That fluff....My god.
However, the allies thing? I can see it.
Screws Tyranids over a peach because they forget their own fluff. (*Cough* Genestealer Cults).
51948
Post by: The Infinite
Miguelsan wrote:
•Psychic powers are selected during deployment. (except Grey Knights)
Lets make it random too and see how Eldar players (I have an Eldar army too) weep about their Farseers.
Honestly, I've never liked how Farseers have the big Psychic powers for the Eldar. They should have more of an influence in things like first turn, deployment and mission selection; they're strategic operators, not tactical ones and their position on the battlefield always seems at odds with the whole description of their role.
Miguelsan wrote:
•Deployment and Missions types have doubled.
Variety is never bad I guess.
M.
Have a look at Dust Warfare's mission generator, if GW moved towards that I'd be a happy bunny (and if they used FoW's: You get the first turn? Then all of your army counts as moving that turn regardless).
53740
Post by: ZebioLizard2
My Ultramarines do not protect the Tau. They kill the Tau. That is all they do. All the time. The Tau exist only to be killed.
But the Ultramarines has the current highest team up rate with tau as it currently is. What with their complete and utter hatred of the tyranids uniting them at times to kill them together.
You picked the wrong Chapter to hate the Tau with. 
But lets put this down seriously.
Tau, being allied with all the space marines chapters.
Just.
Wat!?
7375
Post by: BrookM
Yeah about that, the Black Templars would like to have a word with the witch who thought that up.
5269
Post by: lord_blackfang
I could see a few of these things happening (like being able to buy Bastions as part of the army list) but that fluff is completely absurd.
This isn't even a decent made-up rumor, it's pure and obvious trolling.
39502
Post by: Slayer le boucher
Redemption wrote:Allies would completely screw over any sense of 'balance' 40k
Oh man...i still shed tears from hilariousness! , o god...balance in 40k...ahah...
If this pass i very well could see a few restrictions to not go overboard, like only Elite,Troops and FA choices can be taken as allies and you can only use 20% of your army points budget or something the like.
5946
Post by: Miguelsan
The Infinite wrote:Miguelsan wrote:
•Psychic powers are selected during deployment. (except Grey Knights)
Lets make it random too and see how Eldar players (I have an Eldar army too) weep about their Farseers.
Honestly, I've never liked how Farseers have the big Psychic powers for the Eldar. They should have more of an influence in things like first turn, deployment and mission selection; they're strategic operators, not tactical ones and their position on the battlefield always seems at odds with the whole description of their role.
It´s the selection at deployment what I have issues with, if its random (and must be random because otherwise what´s the point for eldar not to do it at list building) it totally screws with the eldar codex as is. Random powers are cool (hell no) when all powers are roughly equal but having a Warlock or Farseer at the wrong place or unit because you don´t know what powers he is getting plus the issue of eldar powers not being equal makes this point a really stupid rule if true. How many chaos players use possessed on a regular basis? none because again you can´t know what´s the unit role until you deploy and roll the powers ergo that unit is worthless.
M.
15829
Post by: Redemption
That's why I put the apostophes around balance. :p
513
Post by: Symbio Joe
So what I hope for is:
7th edition psychic powers get their own box set
Strategic battlecards are introduced again
Armor roles are just modified but by weapons not cancelled out
Every infantry unit has diffrent movement values
8th edition one of the game designers finally comes to his/her senses and does a remake of 3rd edition and the cycle is complete and I can start to play 40k again. WOOO!
I do not care that much about the fluff anymore as GW writes it new as it wants. I will not even be surprised if all Horus Heresy stuff gets rewritten one day.
40163
Post by: UNCLEBADTOUCH
Oh look another attempt to drum up more site traffic for ad revenue with a bunch of BS rumours. This isn't news or rumours it's a scam, time for this thread to be locked.
31545
Post by: AlexHolker
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:Oh look another attempt to drum up more site traffic for ad revenue with a bunch of BS rumours. This isn't news or rumours it's a scam, time for this thread to be locked.
BoK has a good track record. Pretty much everything they post is gak, but that's GW's fault, not theirs. How about you wait until the rumours (as horrible as they may be) are debunked before calling for the thread to be locked?
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
If this is true, doesnt this basically confirm no daemons in chaos codex? but threat not, allying daemons means finally being able to put bloodcrushers in my chaos army OOOOH PLEASE LET THE ALLY THING BE TRUE PLEASE no more lesser daemons, hello daemons codex 
i too like the idea of space marines splitting up, seems what humans would naturally do (have conflicting opinions). Although my templars would never protect the filthy tau, you only need a good chainsword to end chaos.
34906
Post by: Pacific
And to be fair BoK are correct about the previous leaked 6th edition rules being not official (and therefore 'fake')
The extra missions would be a nice touch - I've played enough "set up 24" apart, kill each other" to last me about 5 life times. After playing other games, it's just another part of the system that just seems horribly antiquated - the Battle Missions book was good fun, so perhaps they could try and move some of those across.
But yes the fluff.. if it is real, what a ghastly mistake. Despite everything that changes within the rules, and with some of the new miniatures looking like playmobil toys (Stormraven), I think the background of the 40k universe is the one rock within the GW tempest that keeps so many gamers tied to 40k. This change, if it happens, would be the biggest one since it was finding its feet at the end of 1st edition more than 20 years ago, and it will not be popular if it is true.
Other games have failed because of poor changes in background, and I hope that GW will tread carefully.
7375
Post by: BrookM
Well, even if GW feths it up, we can always look to FFG for good background stuff.
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
Why don't you think the fluff makes sense? Not being funny, just want to know others views on it.
I though it would bring a good little twist to the universe, but I do love me some conspiracy stuff so I think that's why I like it.
44067
Post by: DarkStarSabre
unmercifulconker wrote:Why don't you think the fluff makes sense? Not being funny, just want to know others views on it.
I though it would bring a good little twist to the universe, but I do love me some conspiracy stuff so I think that's why I like it.
Conspiracy is all well and good.
A complete 180 degree turn on one faction's mindset toward the other however, isn't.
Imagine the next Chaos codex had fluff where Khorne suddenly allied with Slaanesh and were best chums, overwriting ALL prior background which has been established for close to 15+ years about the two....
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
Ah I see, I am sure that sort of stuff would not be allowed though, it said if the fluff fits it, they can ally but I hope that means they will keep the rival factions rival and not let them ally or as you said become best buds.
edit: have GW ever messed up fluff in a sense were rivalries have just been overwritten (minus necron and blood angels)
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
BrookM wrote:Well, even if GW feths it up, we can always look to FFG for good background stuff.
GW still has to approve everything we do. If they say that the Tau and Ultramarines are BFF's, then we'd have to adjust accordingly.
7375
Post by: BrookM
H.B.M.C. wrote:BrookM wrote:Well, even if GW feths it up, we can always look to FFG for good background stuff.
GW still has to approve everything we do. If they say that the Tau and Ultramarines are BFF's, then we'd have to adjust accordingly.
Well feth all kinds of duck..
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
H.B.M.C. wrote:BrookM wrote:Well, even if GW feths it up, we can always look to FFG for good background stuff.
GW still has to approve everything we do. If they say that the Tau and Ultramarines are BFF's, then we'd have to adjust accordingly.
Brace yourselves, the pictures of marines and tau brofisting are coming......
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
No. More like a four-way high-5 between a Firewarrior, an Ultramarine, a Blood Angel and a Necron.
Warhammer 40,000 6th Edition: Friendship is Magical!
51948
Post by: The Infinite
Miguelsan wrote:The Infinite wrote:Miguelsan wrote:
•Psychic powers are selected during deployment. (except Grey Knights)
Lets make it random too and see how Eldar players (I have an Eldar army too) weep about their Farseers.
Honestly, I've never liked how Farseers have the big Psychic powers for the Eldar. They should have more of an influence in things like first turn, deployment and mission selection; they're strategic operators, not tactical ones and their position on the battlefield always seems at odds with the whole description of their role.
It´s the selection at deployment what I have issues with, if its random (and must be random because otherwise what´s the point for eldar not to do it at list building) it totally screws with the eldar codex as is. Random powers are cool (hell no) when all powers are roughly equal but having a Warlock or Farseer at the wrong place or unit because you don´t know what powers he is getting plus the issue of eldar powers not being equal makes this point a really stupid rule if true. How many chaos players use possessed on a regular basis? none because again you can´t know what´s the unit role until you deploy and roll the powers ergo that unit is worthless.
M.
I know what you mean, but what I was getting at was more along the lines of:
Their psychic powers represented by special rules that allow you to, for example, re-roll your (or your opponent's) seize the initiative roll, select one unit (friendly or not) after deployment and place them into reserves, extend (or stop) night-fighting on a 4+, that sort of thing. Effects that you don't need to roll for, they just happen before the game starts.
While their in-game psychic powers are basically all "enhance friendly units" sort of thing. Like, pass a psychic test, all units within 12" gain stealth/furious charge/hit and run USR (your choice).
Meanwhile, Warlocks get to buy their powers, and they are entirely offensive 'cus they're channelled through their witchblades.
I'm not a massive fan of random powers either, unless they do go the ol' fantasy maxim of "sub in the power sitting on 1 in the table".
37231
Post by: d-usa
So Ponymarines in the starter set?
34439
Post by: Formosa
Shenanigans is all i got to say bout these rumours
51769
Post by: Snrub
Rules changes
•Every unit gets a 6+ save vs. all Psychic Powers.
Why?
•Random Charge Lengths are in
So assault units are getting nerfed possibly?
•Pre-measuring is in.
So my Stormtroopers have targeters again?
•Random Battle field effects are in.
Awesome.
•All armies can purchase buildings for placement on the battlefield.
Could be fun, i foresee lots of abuse portential though
•Psychic powers are selected during deployment. (except Grey Knights)
Hmm.... Why would GK be exempt but not Eldar? Oh wait its GW, Nvm.
•Deployment and Missions types have doubled.
What does deployment being doubled mean? This honestly doesn't make sense to me.
7375
Post by: BrookM
You know? It would be a great way for me to save on money, if it gets that stupid I'm out and clinging to the good stuff I already have.
31545
Post by: AlexHolker
unmercifulconker wrote:Why don't you think the fluff makes sense? Not being funny, just want to know others views on it.
I though it would bring a good little twist to the universe, but I do love me some conspiracy stuff so I think that's why I like it.
Inter-Imperium alliances make sense (apart from edge cases like the Space Wolves and Ecclesiarchy/Inquisition). Imperial Guard allying with Tau or Eldar to kill a worse threat makes sense. Space Marines allying with Tau does not, nor does Necrons allying with anyone (which Ward's codexes suggest is a distinct possibility).
53740
Post by: ZebioLizard2
Imagine the next Chaos codex had fluff where Khorne suddenly allied with Slaanesh and were best chums, overwriting ALL prior background which has been established for close to 15+ years about the two....
Everyone knows that's how it is now anyways, I mean how many people advocate for the 4th edition style warbands where everything is khorne + nurgle + tzeentch and slaanesh, all in the same army and getting along and brofisting all night long while being renegade spiky marines.
24514
Post by: Unholy_Martyr
This is just dumb....stupid...horsegak. I don't believe any of his for a second and if any of ir is true, I'll be playing the pancake rules for the forseeable future.
15829
Post by: Redemption
Snrub wrote: •Psychic powers are selected during deployment. (except Grey Knights)
Hmm.... Why would GK be exempt but not Eldar? Oh wait its GW, Nvm.
Unless they mean you get to select the psychic powers when you deploy, so you can select them based on the mission and opponent?
•Deployment and Missions types have doubled.
What does deployment being doubled mean? This honestly doesn't make sense to me.
I think the keyword is types there, as in, more than just the 3 deployments and 3 missions we have in 5th.
5610
Post by: Noisy_Marine
This is clearly one of those fake rumor threads.
26
Post by: carmachu
Some sounds ok ish rumor wise(a bit of fantasy rules mixed in)
But some of it is just pure crap. Protect tau? The tau are a young race. Not even sure they were barbarians with rocks and sticks back ten thousand years ago. Much less on the Emperor's radar. Or that he'd even notice them.....Seems to totally go against the emperor's creed and manafest destiny.
5182
Post by: SlaveToDorkness
BoK sure does crank out the crap. almost like watching BoW videos...lol
20867
Post by: Just Dave
At a time before right before the Horus Heresy the Emperor had intrusted Roboute Guilliman in the protection of one Xenos race that was completely immune the temptations of Chaos and would prove the ultimate key to the destruction of Chaos.
I like this.
The Horus Heresy ended such plans. Fast forward today with discovery of these lost correspondences, it is believed by the Ultramarines and others that the Tau are that lost race.
I like this.
So now instead of being charge with their destruction the Astartes are the Tau protectors.
Less keen on this, but it has potential. Could have an interesting dynamic; making the Tau more credible as a race on the galactic map, help bring Chaos back as the main threat and can create an interesting fracture within the astartes/imperium; with some wanting to purge le Xenos, and the other protect them for the greater good (of humanity).
I like the idea of this new fluff.
Redemption wrote:Allies would completely screw over any sense of 'balance' 40k had. Remember when IG could take Daemonhunter Inquisitors with unlimited range Ld10 psychic hoods and anti-deepstrike Mystics? Now imagine that with every army capable of taking the strongest units from other codexes to cover their weaknesses.
Agreed.
They'll need to be careful with how they play this one methinks.
The idea of a 6+ save against all psychic powers is good though.
15829
Post by: Redemption
Lol, it gets even sillier. One of the guys in the comments posts:
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/05/05/network-news-the-6th-edition-leak-and/comment-page-1/#comment-15831
Y’know, I’ve got similar sources as Tasty, and here’s things they’ve told me…
- Now this Emporor rumour (God there are so many) is very interesting. Here’s the gist: The Emperor does die (physically, anyway). As prophesizeed all the way back in 1st ed (WWWAAAGGGHHH the Orks!!!! supplement), the Waaaggghhh!!! comes sweeping through human space and threatens to engulf Earth. En route, they overrun the Crimson Fists’ homeworld, and the destruction of that oft- destroyed chapter finally becomes canon. In order to save Earth, they Emperor vacates his mortal shell for good and contests directly with Mork and Gork in the warp. One of the Ork Gods is destroyed in the psychic conflict, the Waaaggghhh! is broken, and IG amd marines sweep the demoralized greenskins back to the borders of huma space. Who remains as sole deity of the Orks? The Orks aren’t sure. A religious schism fractures the entire race, dissolving the previous clan allegiances. Instead of clans, all Orks everywhere are either Gorkers or Morkers.
Exciting stuff, eh?
What's next, an Ork Ecclesiarchy?
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Post by: Alpharius
Rumors should at least have an air of believability about them!
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Post by: Just Dave
Redemption wrote:Lol, it gets even sillier. One of the guys in the comments posts:
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/05/05/network-news-the-6th-edition-leak-and/comment-page-1/#comment-15831
Y’know, I’ve got similar sources as Tasty, and here’s things they’ve told me…
- Now this Emporor rumour (God there are so many) is very interesting. Here’s the gist: The Emperor does die (physically, anyway). As prophesizeed all the way back in 1st ed (WWWAAAGGGHHH the Orks!!!! supplement), the Waaaggghhh!!! comes sweeping through human space and threatens to engulf Earth. En route, they overrun the Crimson Fists’ homeworld, and the destruction of that oft- destroyed chapter finally becomes canon. In order to save Earth, they Emperor vacates his mortal shell for good and contests directly with Mork and Gork in the warp. One of the Ork Gods is destroyed in the psychic conflict, the Waaaggghhh! is broken, and IG amd marines sweep the demoralized greenskins back to the borders of huma space. Who remains as sole deity of the Orks? The Orks aren’t sure. A religious schism fractures the entire race, dissolving the previous clan allegiances. Instead of clans, all Orks everywhere are either Gorkers or Morkers.
Exciting stuff, eh?
What's next, an Ork Ecclesiarchy?
That one I don't believe.
Either way, at least they're advancing the story. ... Right?
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Post by: SkaerKrow
This sounds like trolling. Whether GW is trolling us, or TastyTaste's source, remains to be seen.
19809
Post by: Trevak Dal
Sidstyler wrote:40k 6th edition is going to be much closer to Fantasy 8th
Wow, GW doesn't really learn, do they..."Let's go ahead and just ruin both systems, what do we care! lolz!"
Oh well, time to find something else to do with my time for the next 4 years. Here's hoping 7th edition isn't a pile of crap I guess.
And I'm sure all the Space Marine players out there will be absolutely thrilled that their armies are all supposed to babysit the Tau now.
Yeah, as a Tau player I'm just excited beyond words about the Space Marines protecting my army...I'll believe this noise when I see it.
And hey, for the tournament players, why not just stick using 5th edition or some hybridization between 5th and 6th (if indeed they do this) and work with that? I mean, it's not like GW has any say in tournaments, and enough of you fellas have been playing for...decades so you should be able to compile something...
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Post by: Pacific
OK.. well at least we know the whole thing is not true now.
++EDIT++ Tinfoil hat moment: Actually, I wonder if these are deliberate false rumours, in order to catch a leak in the design studio? I hear the sound of jack boots coming down the hall
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Post by: Therion
These rumours are complete fabrications. Nothing major has changed in the 40K universe as we know it via the Black Library books the past few years or the Codex books which have been 'written with 6th edition in mind' from a background perspective. The rulebook isn't even a major source of (new) background material, it just recompiles most of the stuff already written so that each new gamer that picks up the game gets to know the basic storyline. I can more easily believe those ridiculous rules about allies and random charge lengths (which both might ruin the game entirely) but there's no way GW changes the background so drastically. All this talk about the timeline progressing is nonsense. It's been the last decade of the 41st millennium forever now and it will continue to be so.
Besides, I don't understand this talk about 'being closer to 2nd edition'. Have these guys who spin this crap even played 2nd edition? Where's the rumours about the AP system going away, movement value & overwatch & wargear and psychic power decks coming back, sustained fire dice, lascannons etc causing 2D6 wounds, armies consisting of nothing but Space Wolf Terminators with assault cannons, etc? That was 2nd edition to me. How are allies and random charge length in any way a resemblance of 2nd edition?
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Post by: unmercifulconker
Pacific wrote:OK.. well at least we know the whole thing is not true now.
++EDIT++ Tinfoil hat moment: Actually, I wonder if these are deliberate false rumours, in order to catch a leak in the design studio? I hear the sound of jack boots coming down the hall
Oh.My.God......
They have Tyrion Lannister on their team, the sources are already dead...
Edit: Tyrion must have told each source the marines would ally with either: tyranids, tau or dark eldar. I guess he now knows who is getting thrown in the dungeon.
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Post by: FrozenSoul80
My brave Tau don't need protecting. I preferred Pancake Edition.
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Post by: Alpharius
Just Dave wrote:
Either way, at least they're advancing the story. ... Right?
And that right there is how you know these rumors are fruit of the poisoned tree!
19809
Post by: Trevak Dal
H.B.M.C. wrote:No. More like a four-way high-5 between a Firewarrior, an Ultramarine, a Blood Angel and a Necron.
Warhammer 40,000 6th Edition: Friendship is Magical!
The word you're searching for is 'Cowabunga!'
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Post by: unmercifulconker
Trevak Dal wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:No. More like a four-way high-5 between a Firewarrior, an Ultramarine, a Blood Angel and a Necron.
Warhammer 40,000 6th Edition: Friendship is Magical!
The word you're searching for is 'Cowabunga!'
"Hey Shas, wanna go poke a dead body we found in the lake?"
"AW sweet Cal, yeah lets go, hey Meph you wanna come along?"
"No thanks Shas, tarzyn doesn't like water so i'm just gunna lay back here for a while."
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
Actually, I've heard the Orks conquer earth in a new Waagghh, steal the Golden Throne--and begin laying waste to the rest of the Imperium with it.
Some interesting stuff--the Tau thing is really strange. Then again, the only fluff I'm used to regarding Tau is their 3 year old-like naivety or comedic backdrop in other codices.
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Post by: Ouze
I also vote shenanigans.
I do love the idea of moving the timeline forward but it just doesn't seem likely. I think the Necron & BA as allies is the equivalent of adding a trollface.jpg to the rumor; I think it's unlikely for GWS to incorporate a sarcastic meme from a roundly-mocked writer as part of their core ruleset.
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Post by: d-usa
If anything I could see the 'major discovery' being a STC, if even a partial one. There are some AdMech novels coming out, although from talking to the BL authors it seems that there is not a lot of coordination between BL and GW game design.
May explain flyers showing up everywhere though.
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Post by: bhsman
Yeah, the BA/Necron allies thing makes me question if Tasty is just messing with us at this point; why else would he use that picture?
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Post by: Therion
Ouze wrote:I also vote shenanigans.
I do love the idea of moving the timeline forward but it just doesn't seem likely. I think the Necron & BA as allies is the equivalent of adding a trollface.jpg to the rumor; I think it's unlikely for GWS to incorporate a sarcastic meme from a roundly-mocked writer as part of their core ruleset.
Well, to be honest once you read the Necron codex the one-time-non-aggression-pact with the Blood Angels doesn't sound so terrible. There's a lot of stuff about Necrons being concerned that if the Tyranids run rampant through all the primitive species they'll become too strong for even the Necrons to wipe out, so they'll try to fight the Tyranids where they see them. In that particular case the Imperials were already there fighting the same splinter fleet. I think this same type of 'unlikely allies' story has been written multiple times about the Imperials and Tau, and the Imperials and Eldar. Two sides that don't trust eachother or even hate eachother fighting a common enemy. Sometimes they turn on the temporary allies after the battle, sometimes they don't.
That said absolutely nothing in the Necron codex implies that they would ever make an alliance with any other species. They allied with the C'tan once and after the war turned on them too. There's a few lines about some Tomb Worlds having human planets as slave systems but I doubt that's what the BoK spin doctors had in mind when they said Blood Angels and Necrons can ally.
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Post by: Kanluwen
It's like he printed out all the fan "theories" on the internet, put them on a dartboard and just chucked some darts to decide what to report as "leaks".
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Post by: loki old fart
d-usa wrote:If anything I could see the 'major discovery' being a STC, if even a partial one. There are some AdMech novels coming out, although from talking to the BL authors it seems that there is not a lot of coordination between BL and GW game design.
May explain flyers showing up everywhere though.
Think that gives more credence to the pancake edition TBH 
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Post by: ChiliPowderKeg
Redemption wrote:At a time before right before the Horus Heresy the Emperor had intrusted Roboute Guilliman in the protection of one Xenos race that was completely immune the temptations of Chaos and would prove the ultimate key to the destruction of Chaos. The Horus Heresy ended such plans. Fast forward today with discovery of these lost correspondences, it is believed by the Ultramarines and others that the Tau are that lost race. So now instead of being charge with their destruction the Astartes are the Tau protectors.
Oh lord, this going to launch plenty of flame wars for a while if true.
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Post by: Starfarer
lord_blackfang wrote:This isn't even a decent made-up rumor, it's pure and obvious trolling.
Absolutely, I think this one safely puts BoK's credibility in the dumps. They're trolling for website hits, plain and simple. But people want to have new rumors, they'll believe any garbage thrown out there.
AlexHolker wrote:UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:Oh look another attempt to drum up more site traffic for ad revenue with a bunch of BS rumours. This isn't news or rumours it's a scam, time for this thread to be locked.
BoK has a good track record. Pretty much everything they post is gak, but that's GW's fault, not theirs.
Wait, what? It's GW's fault BoK is making up obviously bogus rumors? How in the everloving hell can you reach the conclusion GW is responsible for a person posting fake rumors? Have we just thrown logic completely out the window in favor of blind hate towards GW at this point?
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Post by: drunkorc
Pre-measuring is in.
Dear Gork! please tell me that will not happen!
As you lot remember when the rumours of the 5th.Ed. rules came out.
alot of it was not used in the rulesbook. (Thank Mork!)
but im just going to see what happens, as for now.
Im really thinking of buying the starter boxset before it gets replaced,
just incase!
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Post by: Ventus
I could see GW allowing this type of stuff to be leaked. Then when the rules come out and they are different, no matter how gakky some of it is, people will be "at least its not that thing that was rumoured so maybe its not so bad".
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Post by: Puscifer
Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
Mr Mystery - 2010.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Hah, the best kind of rumors, the ones that throw the spanner of chaos into the orderly gears of the community. :-)
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Post by: RiTides
Sidstyler wrote:40k 6th edition is going to be much closer to Fantasy 8th
Wow, GW doesn't really learn, do they..."Let's go ahead and just ruin both systems, what do we care! lolz!"
If true, it'd be a really poor move on their part... and move more of the competitive gaming scene over to warmahordes than was already migrating there.
As a fantasy player, 8th edition has huge flaws, and replicating those in 40k 6th edition would be a mistake.
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Post by: Alfhedil
Trevak Dal wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:No. More like a four-way high-5 between a Firewarrior, an Ultramarine, a Blood Angel and a Necron.
Warhammer 40,000 6th Edition: Friendship is Magical!
The word you're searching for is 'Cowabunga!'
Sounds more like the start of Captain Planet 40K.
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Post by: MDizzle
Okay this is what I don't understand Fantasy 8 ed went over like a led balloon (myth busters not with standing)
Warmahoards is out selling Fantasy. In Westren Washington were I live most Fantasy tourneys have been canceled due to lack of interest and I don't think I have even see a game of fantasy being played in 9 months at any store I have been to.
40k is the most popular war game in the world by a huge margin why would they make this drastic of changes to the system after such a huge dip in sales with Fantasy. This makes no since to me.
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Post by: -666-
These rumors are so silly. Lol !!
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Post by: Zweischneid
MDizzle wrote:Okay this is what I don't understand Fantasy 8 ed went over like a led balloon (myth busters not with standing)
Warmahoards is out selling Fantasy. In Westren Washington were I live most Fantasy tourneys have been canceled due to lack of interest and I don't think I have even see a game of fantasy being played in 9 months at any store I have been to.
40k is the most popular war game in the world by a huge margin why would they make this drastic of changes to the system after such a huge dip in sales with Fantasy. This makes no since to me.
Remember, it's still rumours.
Fantasy was a dying game before 8th. Therefore, it made sense to try something fairly radically "new" to revive the corpse. May not have worked, but I can see that sticking to the "old" Fantasy didn't make sense, as it was on a downhill curve before that.
40K's (as far as I know) not as desperately in trouble, so mucking it all up seems rather unwise. Than again, who knows. Other companies have shot their prize horses before in the attempt to "be different" (e.g. D&D 4th, etc.. )
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Post by: drunkorc
Puscifer...THANK YOU SO MUCH, me coffie shot out of my nose, what a great way to start the Sat. morning!
well off to wash my keyboard,....
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Post by: timetowaste85
I agree the BA/Cron team up is proof that this is BS. Yes, they teamed up ONCE, they aren't suddenly super, best friend butt-buddies. Troll rumors with a sprinkling of real thrown in, I'm sure. I don't hold much stock in this. I believed it up until the allies part-allies in fantasy are based in team games, not 1v1. If BoK's rumors were allies in this sense though...it's possible. But no allies within a single list. GW swore they wouldn't do that again.
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Post by: His Master's Voice
All this hogwash just makes pancake edition all the more probable.
And if it turns out to be true, well, I guess GW will find out if ruining BOTH your game mechanics AND setting has a negative impact on sales.
Oh, and they'd also royally feth FFG's writing...
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Post by: Perkustin
Surely the 'Blood angels and Necrons' Reference is an Oh-so-subtle hint that the background details are complete Bollocks.
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Post by: Mad4Minis
No matter what they do to the rules or the fluff, I bet that every single one of you that are complaining right now still play the game and buy GW products.
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Post by: Alpharius
Mad4Minis wrote:No matter what they do to the rules or the fluff, I bet that every single one of you that are complaining right now still play the game and buy GW products.
I'd take that bet!
Especially with the 'no matter what they do' provision!
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Post by: BaronIveagh
H.B.M.C. wrote:No. More like a four-way high-5 between a Firewarrior, an Ultramarine, a Blood Angel and a Necron.
Warhammer 40,000 6th Edition: Friendship is Magical!
Sorry, for some reason...
40k Players: What does 40k look like?
Though I might point out that it does nothing to the Jericho Reach, since that's taking place 100 years before the 'present' in 40k. So it's all good.
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Post by: Sheck2
Why is everyone so upset? Now Smurfs can field armies with railguns, stealth suits, crisis suits...it's a way to keep SMs on top.
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Post by: Zweischneid
Perkustin wrote:Surely the 'Blood angels and Necrons' Reference is an Oh-so-subtle hint that the background details are complete Bollocks.
At least they didn't have a big ol feast together afterwards and let the Xenos-Aspect Warriors "honorably" bear the fallen Space Marines like Space Wolves did in the latest Codex. Really, compared to the Wolves-Eldar fling in 5th, the Blood Angel version is grim dark at its purest.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Agamemnon2 wrote:...the orderly gears of the community. :-)
...and what community would that be?
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Post by: Just Dave
Snrub wrote:AlexHolker wrote:UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:Oh look another attempt to drum up more site traffic for ad revenue with a bunch of BS rumours. This isn't news or rumours it's a scam, time for this thread to be locked.
BoK has a good track record. Pretty much everything they post is gak, but that's GW's fault, not theirs.
Wait, what? It's GW's fault BoK is making up obviously bogus rumors? How in the everloving hell can you reach the conclusion GW is responsible for a person posting fake rumors? Have we just thrown logic completely out the window in favor of blind hate towards GW at this point?
He's saying that's it's GW's fault because they're the ones that made the final product of the rumours, such as the Sisters WD 'dex.
So, if there's unpopular rumours (such as these) that turn out to be true, then it's GW's fault.
Mad4Minis wrote:No matter what they do to the rules or the fluff, I bet that every single one of you that are complaining right now still play the game and buy GW products.
I'm inclined to agree tbh. minus the "every single one of you".
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Post by: Agamemnon2
I dunno, I've tired of the intensely dogmatic Imperium where every army follows the Inquisition creed to the letter. It'd be a far better setting if Chapters could do their own thing according to their own values, as opposed to everyone in the galaxy marching to the beat of one drum.
If this means Necrons can be reasoned with by commanders crafty or desperate enough, so be it (and really, the modern necron backstory fully supports this).
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Post by: timetowaste85
I also don't get the hate of 8th edition fantasy-I LIKE 8th much more than 7th. Only thing I don't like about 8th is artillery fire being a no-brainer. 6th edition 40k following fantasy seems like a step in the right direction. I know my anti-40k buddies will make the jump in if these rumors prove true. Except that ridiculous ally thing. Blech!
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Post by: FrozenSoul80
Ventus wrote:I could see GW allowing this type of stuff to be leaked. Then when the rules come out and they are different, no matter how gakky some of it is, people will be "at least its not that thing that was rumoured so maybe its not so bad".
The Revenge of the Sith approach.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Well, the thing is, remember that all the guys that created that static universe are gone. All the guys that KEPT it a static universe are gone.
Matt Ward is coming. You'd better lube up, because fluff is about to be violated in a manner that is banned in fifteen countries....
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Post by: Kanluwen
BaronIveagh wrote:Well, the thing is, remember that all the guys that created that static universe are gone. All the guys that KEPT it a static universe are gone.
Matt Ward is coming. You'd better lube up, because fluff is about to be violated in a manner that is banned in fifteen countries....
And apparently we've reached the Ward Point.
Phil Kelly was one of the guys who "kept it a static universe"--and he's been changing it for years.
Andy Chambers was one of the guys who "created that static universe", and he changed it plenty while he was still with the company.
I could go on and on and on--but the point is that what Ward is doing has been done by those people who you obviously venerate.
Was it done so blatantly in some cases? Certainly not.
But let's not forget that Kelly wrote about an Ork destroying a Titan by crashing a motorcycle through it.
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Post by: Kroothawk
If psychic powers really get random, why stop there? Make all weapons of tanks and units random. Or do it like this
Step 1: Roll for game system: 1-2 LOTR, 3-4 Warhammer Fantasy, 5-6 Warhammer 40k.
Step 2: Roll for army/race.
Step 3: Roll for each chart in the FOC, starting with HQ. If a unit is incompatible with all previous units, roll again.
Step 4: Roll for equipment and special rules for each unit.
Step 5: Roll for terrain.
Step 6: Roll for special abilities of each terrain piece.
Step 7: Roll for missions.
Step 8: Roll for sides and who deploys first.
TBC
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Post by: Redemption
Well, technically these rumours speak of 'selecting' psychic powers instead of 'randomly picking' them. Could mean that Psykers that have to pick a number of spells from a 'library', such as Librarians or Rune Priests, get to do it after they know the mission and opponent, instead of at the time of army list creation.
Edit: of course, with the rest of the rumour tidbits being as silly as they are, take from that what you will.
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Post by: Pacific
Sheck2 wrote:Why is everyone so upset? Now Smurfs can field armies with railguns, stealth suits, crisis suits...it's a way to keep SMs on top.
Because if it is true, it's the equivalent of GW pulling down its cacks, squatting over the background and releasing the most almighty of logs on top of it.
But the last bit about the orks is a little bit OOT though, which makes me think the whole thing is a wind-up.
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Post by: Starfarer
Just Dave wrote:Cadaver wrote:AlexHolker wrote:UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:Oh look another attempt to drum up more site traffic for ad revenue with a bunch of BS rumours. This isn't news or rumours it's a scam, time for this thread to be locked.
BoK has a good track record. Pretty much everything they post is gak, but that's GW's fault, not theirs.
Wait, what? It's GW's fault BoK is making up obviously bogus rumors? How in the everloving hell can you reach the conclusion GW is responsible for a person posting fake rumors? Have we just thrown logic completely out the window in favor of blind hate towards GW at this point?
He's saying that's it's GW's fault because they're the ones that made the final product of the rumours, such as the Sisters WD 'dex.
So, if there's unpopular rumours (such as these) that turn out to be true, then it's GW's fault.
OK, thanks for clearing that up. He's just tossing in another "everything GW makes sucks" post instead of being mind-numbingly illogical, as I took it.
Also, you misquoted me as Snrub in your post.
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Post by: midget_overlord
Tyranids will not have any allies.
Could have been nice to bring back genestealer cults by letting them ally with imperial guard.
Unique characters should not be allowed to ally, that could help prevent even more fluff rape.
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Post by: carmachu
Mad4Minis wrote:No matter what they do to the rules or the fluff, I bet that every single one of you that are complaining right now still play the game and buy GW products.
Ah the foolish fanboys speak.
No, more then a few of us have stopped buying and even stopped playing. Our group of a dozen have abandoned GW completely, to the point of selling GW stuff off to buy warmhordes stuff. Or mailfax.
I doubt we're alone.
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Post by: Tyras
Mad4Minis wrote:No matter what they do to the rules or the fluff, I bet that every single one of you that are complaining right now still play the game and buy GW products.
I don't. I moved on to Warmachine and Hordes and left GW, their products, and their horrible attitude of profits over quality (in all aspects of their business) long ago. I just pop into these threads for the same reason people slow down when they see a car accident. Morbid curiosity.
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Post by: Quintinus
Zweischneid wrote:Perkustin wrote:Surely the 'Blood angels and Necrons' Reference is an Oh-so-subtle hint that the background details are complete Bollocks.
At least they didn't have a big ol feast together afterwards and let the Xenos-Aspect Warriors "honorably" bear the fallen Space Marines like Space Wolves did in the latest Codex. Really, compared to the Wolves-Eldar fling in 5th, the Blood Angel version is grim dark at its purest.
I take it you're referring to Page 19, under the story Alliances Broken. Which of course has the Autarch bearing some fallen Space Wolves. Although there's no feast, because there is a mistranslation and suddenly "blades are drawn". What happens after this? Space Wolves Codex, Page 19 wrote:The sudden violence of the ensuing fight is but a shadow of the destruction that follows in the sector...
Yup, sounds like they're great chums....not. Nice attempt at trying to change the story, you should be a politician! hahaha @ Kanluwen- The difference is that the added to a static universe. They didn't change such central tenets like making it so that the Imperial Marines no longer hate aliens. Honestly I don't really care because the only background I care about is 2nd edition or older, most of the new stuff just doesn't do it for me, and I bet I am not the only one.
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Post by: timetowaste85
I think my previous thought on allies may be accurate: look at pages 136-138 of the fantasy book on how allies work. They are not combined in a single list, rather two or more people teaming up.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Vladsimpaler wrote:
@ Kanluwen- The difference is that the added to a static universe. They didn't change such central tenets as Space Marines no longer hating aliens.
Uh...I think you need to go reread the original Tau codex.
1) An Imperial Fist Astartes accompanies an Imperial diplomat to deliver a message. He doesn't hulk out and "Raaawrgh, Xenos!".
2) The Damocles Gulf Crusade ended with the Astartes having a "newfound respect" for the Fire Caste.
You can hate someone and still work with them against a greater foe. See: the Allied Nations during WWII (Russia).
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Post by: Quintinus
Kanluwen wrote:Vladsimpaler wrote:
@ Kanluwen- The difference is that the added to a static universe. They didn't change such central tenets as Space Marines no longer hating aliens.
Uh...I think you need to go reread the original Tau codex. 1) An Imperial Fist Astartes accompanies an Imperial diplomat to deliver a message. He doesn't hulk out and "Raaawrgh, Xenos!". 2) The Damocles Gulf Crusade ended with the Astartes having a "newfound respect" for the Fire Caste. You can hate someone and still work with them against a greater foe. See: the Allied Nations during WWII (Russia).
I would appreciate some page numbers so I could find exactly where the quotes are. Like you've said before, context is key haha, I would like to know the full story Personally I don't think you're like Zwershned or whatever his name is and that you're taking the quotes out of context/changing them, I'm just curious
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Post by: Flashman
Seem to remember that the Ultramarines chum up with the Tau in the Fire Warrior computer game.
That said the whole point of 40K is that all races are capable of kicking off against each other and will even fight amongst themselves. If you turn Ultramarines into the sacred guardians of Tau, you remove the potential that they will square off against each other in the game.
That is why that aspect of the rumour is male cow poop
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Post by: Kanluwen
Vladsimpaler wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Vladsimpaler wrote:
@ Kanluwen- The difference is that the added to a static universe. They didn't change such central tenets as Space Marines no longer hating aliens.
Uh...I think you need to go reread the original Tau codex.
1) An Imperial Fist Astartes accompanies an Imperial diplomat to deliver a message. He doesn't hulk out and "Raaawrgh, Xenos!".
2) The Damocles Gulf Crusade ended with the Astartes having a "newfound respect" for the Fire Caste.
You can hate someone and still work with them against a greater foe. See: the Allied Nations during WWII (Russia).
I would appreciate some page numbers so I could find exactly where the quotes are.
Like you've said before, context is key haha, I would like to know the full story
Personally I don't think you're like Zwershned or whatever his name is and that you're taking the quotes out of context/changing them, I'm just curious
Pages 54 and 55 are the Imperial Fist accompanying the Adept to the Tau city.
Page 60 has the part leading up to the "respect" line.
It even mentions that "The first seeds of cooperation were sown, though these would take time to bloom in the aftermath of such a brutal conflict".
Please remember that this is Codex: Tau, not Codex: Tau Empire.
It was written by Andy Chambers, Pete Haines, and Graham McNeill.
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Post by: sydewynder
Allies would be fun.
I would love to include an inquisitor and henchmen in an SM are purely for fluffy fun-times... but that's not really anything I can't do without a house rule anyways...
The rest of this seems just completely random. I wouldn't be overly upset if they did all that stuff but it would make me question exactly how they thought they were improving the game as a whole.
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Post by: garrapignado
SM protecting TAU and those strange alliances are the worst part for me.
I don't play much, so any rule change is worth a try. But fluff is important, and there are some things that should be engraved on stone. Not everything is untouchable, but mankind survaibility depends only on humans! They may be wrong about that strong xenophoby, and this is one of the better things in Imperium: they don't trust in any other race. Eldar have tried to warn mankind about key events so many times, but IG, SM, GK, SoB... always ignore them (at least in part), even if it drives Imperium to self drestruction. To me, this blindness is one of the best parts!
If they wanted Tau having a major part in the fluff (I think they deserve it), they could simply write that they discovered something that helps stopping the unstoppable Tyranids thanks to their fast growing technology. Not destroying them but slowing their advance. I'm not a writer, so someone smarter than me sure could imagine anything better.
And alliances... Poor tyranid players will have to face cross army combos while they still wait for a plastic Harpy. I think that, if this comes true, Matt Ward rage will be a relic compared to brand new "new rulebook fluff writer" rage.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Flashman wrote:Seem to remember that the Ultramarines chum up with the Tau in the Fire Warrior computer game.
I don't remember the Ultramarines being in the Fire Warrior computer game. I remember the Raptors being in there though.
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Post by: Flashman
Kanluwen wrote:Flashman wrote:Seem to remember that the Ultramarines chum up with the Tau in the Fire Warrior computer game.
I don't remember the Ultramarines being in the Fire Warrior computer game. I remember the Raptors being in there though.
They were indeed. Peter Serafinowicz (voice of Darth Maul) played an Ultramarine captain. Raptors were also in there as antagonists in one of the early sections of the game.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Flashman wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Flashman wrote:Seem to remember that the Ultramarines chum up with the Tau in the Fire Warrior computer game.
I don't remember the Ultramarines being in the Fire Warrior computer game. I remember the Raptors being in there though.
They were indeed. Peter Serafinowicz (voice of Darth Maul) played an Ultramarine captain. Raptors were also in there as antagonists in one of the early sections of the game.
I'll take your word for it.
I've erased Fire Warrior from my brain, for the most part. 
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Post by: Ian Sturrock
At least a couple of the BL novels have had some elements of Tau working with some elements of the Imperium, haven't they? Even if one or other side has later broken the deal.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't totally hate the rumoured fluff changes (I agree that more variation among Marine beliefs might be good, and I quite like the Ork split too).
Rules-wise, I'd like to see Tyranid alliances with Guard if allies are back, partly for fluff purposes, partly because access to Chimeras full of meltacultistvets would be very handy for making Nids competitive again.
More dice rolls = not good.
Pre-measuring would be great. I don't see why the rules should disadvantage non-carpenters.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Ian Sturrock wrote:At least a couple of the BL novels have had some elements of Tau working with some elements of the Imperium, haven't they? Even if one or other side has later broken the deal.
"Kill Team" had the Last Chancers working for the Tau, if I remember correctly.
I was never a big Last Chancers fan, so I might have the title wrong...
The Tyranid Codex has an example of a Cadian force arriving late to the Damocles Gulf Crusade 'just in the nick of time' to help prevent the Tau from being killed by the Tyranids. It all ended with the Cadians being in place to launch an invasion--if they feel the time is right.
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Post by: Experiment 626
timetowaste85 wrote:I think my previous thought on allies may be accurate: look at pages 136-138 of the fantasy book on how allies work. They are not combined in a single list, rather two or more people teaming up.
This is exactly how I'd envision an 'allies system' to work in 6th. It's outside of 'tournament play' and basically requires opponent's permission or else is designed for multi-player senarios.
GW knows how imbalanced a 'combined arms force' is, as that was one of the huge reasons for spliting apart the 3 Fantasy Chaos factions. Under the old 6th ed system, they were an almost unstoppable beast, being able to combine the best aspects of 3 armies into 1 god-awful monster!
I highly doubt we're going to go back to a system that allows you to take an army of psycho&rad grenade totting, Furious charging, FnP, Fleeting assault termie hordes! 
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Post by: Embrace your inner geek
Don't really care about the fluff. Background is nice but it's not why I play. I'm more concerned about the rules. More randomness = bad IMO. OK, 40k is not chess, and never will be, but the more randomness that 6th ed introduces the less tactical the game is, and the more you might as well line up your models and fire elastic bands at them like you did when you were 7.
EYIG
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Post by: timetowaste85
Flashman wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Flashman wrote:Seem to remember that the Ultramarines chum up with the Tau in the Fire Warrior computer game.
I don't remember the Ultramarines being in the Fire Warrior computer game. I remember the Raptors being in there though.
They were indeed. Peter Serafinowicz (voice of Darth Maul) played an Ultramarine captain. Raptors were also in there as antagonists in one of the early sections of the game.
Darth Maul was played by Ray Park. Are you saying he was voiced by somebody else? That would be asinine of Lucas to do, but I wouldn't put it past him. Different for Vader where the face was never shown and they needed a menacing voice to match his awesome stature.
Just wikipedia'd it. Lucas, you have officially pissed me off this day. Go feth yourself. Sorry for questioning you, Flashman, over Lucas screwing the pooch.
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Post by: MDizzle
I wont quit playing 40k if 6th is this bad I will just keep playing 5th ed.
7637
Post by: Sasori
I hope most of this is bunk.
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Post by: rockerbikie
My Space Wolves will never help a 4 foot tall puny race that is terrrible in CC. I want them to be destroyed in a fine paste. Huron Blackheart and his Red Corsairs also cold heartingly agrees.
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Post by: timd
Kroot, you forgot the most important part (and final roll), the game itself: Step 9: Roll off with D6s to see who wins...
Sorry, very old joke, but it fits perfectly with the rest of your rolls...
Kroothawk wrote:If psychic powers really get random, why stop there? Make all weapons of tanks and units random. Or do it like this
Step 1: Roll for game system: 1-2 LOTR, 3-4 Warhammer Fantasy, 5-6 Warhammer 40k.
Step 2: Roll for army/race.
Step 3: Roll for each chart in the FOC, starting with HQ. If a unit is incompatible with all previous units, roll again.
Step 4: Roll for equipment and special rules for each unit.
Step 5: Roll for terrain.
Step 6: Roll for special abilities of each terrain piece.
Step 7: Roll for missions.
Step 8: Roll for sides and who deploys first.
TBC
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Post by: BlackRaven1987!!
Flashman wrote:That said the whole point of 40K is that all races are capable of kicking off against each other and will even fight amongst themselves. If you turn Ultramarines into the sacred guardians of Tau, you remove the potential that they will square off against each other in the game.
I completely disagree just because the Ultramarines are supposed to be the "sacred protectors" (something that I also think is absolutely rediculase but I am keepiong an open mind and will see how this pans out, who knows maybe they will pull something interesting out of it if it it is true) it doesnt meant that there are memmbers of the Tau empire that dont want the Ultramarines protection and feel that they can protect themselves. Also knowing how space marines demand everyone do things how they want when they want where they want no questions asked I can see plenty of opportunity for the Ultramarines and Tau to kick it off against eachother to better protect the race as a whole. This is just how I could see it happening if they make this fluff, it could actually make the Tau even more of an underdog race and kind of add a moral dilema to the fluff for the Ultramarines who have been seen as the most succesfull group of space marines as far as thier sector but now can be looked at as either protectors of the Tau or oppresors of the Tau could be interesting if written correctly.
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Post by: Flashman
timetowaste85 wrote:Flashman wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Flashman wrote:Seem to remember that the Ultramarines chum up with the Tau in the Fire Warrior computer game.
I don't remember the Ultramarines being in the Fire Warrior computer game. I remember the Raptors being in there though.
They were indeed. Peter Serafinowicz (voice of Darth Maul) played an Ultramarine captain. Raptors were also in there as antagonists in one of the early sections of the game.
Darth Maul was played by Ray Park. Are you saying he was voiced by somebody else? That would be asinine of Lucas to do, but I wouldn't put it past him. Different for Vader where the face was never shown and they needed a menacing voice to match his awesome stature.
Just wikipedia'd it. Lucas, you have officially pissed me off this day. Go feth yourself. Sorry for questioning you, Flashman, over Lucas screwing the pooch.
No worries
To be fair, I think Ray Park's voice (as actually heard in X-Men when he played Toad) didn't quite have the right tone and was one of Lucas's better judgements. It also paved the way for a great in joke in Spaced which features Peter Serafinowicz in a minor recurring role.
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Post by: garrapignado
At least, they only mention Ultramarines protecting Tau. Lets convert your blue models to other codex chapter color scheme and keep kicking Tau asses without remorse!
About adding randomness to the game: it doesn't kill tactics, it kills pre-learnt tactics. With some elements out of your control, you will have to adapt to different conditions each battle, making matches between common players less predictible. I think there are lots of people that are not part of a gaming club, but play usually with the same two or three friends. Randomness helps these guys.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Pacific wrote:Sheck2 wrote:Why is everyone so upset? Now Smurfs can field armies with railguns, stealth suits, crisis suits...it's a way to keep SMs on top.
Because if it is true, it's the equivalent of GW pulling down its cacks, squatting over the background and releasing the most almighty of logs on top of it.
But the last bit about the orks is a little bit OOT though, which makes me think the whole thing is a wind-up.
I tend to agree.
Whilst not a fluff nutter, I don't find it impossible to believe that 10,050 years ago in game time, Horus told Roboute about a Chaos proof faction. I do find it incredible that the SMs would spend the next 10,049 years ignoring that.
I expect a lot of the supposed rule changes will come true. They have been prefigured in WHFB, after all, and if you make enough guesses some of them will come true.
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Post by: Motograter
Any of this is true then 40k is gonna be more dead than it is currently
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Post by: ShumaGorath
This sounds like the biggest load I've heard in a while. It sounds like someones making gak up in order to try and steal a little bit of traffic from napkin drawing flyer reveal.
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Post by: timd
His Master's Voice wrote:All this hogwash just makes pancake edition all the more probable.
Agreed. Just disinformation designed to make us forget about the pancake edition, so it will be a "surprise" when it hits the stores.
And the McCain/Palin photo pretty much proves it...
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Post by: Nagashek
False.
Bears.
Beets.
Battlestar Galactica.
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Post by: azazel the cat
I don't think I believe the part about the allies, because it will degenerate into 90% of all tournament lists being either Coteaz with an IG parking lot, or else the combination of Psyrifleman Dreads with Grey Hunters.
However, I do like the idea of my Necrons gaining some measure of protection from psychic powers, and then including Mephiston in a Wraithwing army with night fighting.
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Post by: Pacific
Kanluwen wrote:Vladsimpaler wrote:
@ Kanluwen- The difference is that the added to a static universe. They didn't change such central tenets as Space Marines no longer hating aliens.
Uh...I think you need to go reread the original Tau codex.
1) An Imperial Fist Astartes accompanies an Imperial diplomat to deliver a message. He doesn't hulk out and "Raaawrgh, Xenos!".
2) The Damocles Gulf Crusade ended with the Astartes having a "newfound respect" for the Fire Caste.
You can hate someone and still work with them against a greater foe. See: the Allied Nations during WWII (Russia).
I agree with you completely - Marines are 'thinkers' (especially Imperial Fists! ) for the most part. There is room for differing interpretations; from the zealot of the Black Templar, to the far more pragmatic Ultramarine.
However, that discussion is skirting around the outside of the giant elephant sat in plain view in the middle of the room - namely, the revisionist fluff where by some 'evidence' of the Emperor actually wanting to protect the Tau is discovered, and the reasons for it. It's wrong on so many levels that really I don't think an analysis of 'why' is needed. In summary: no matter how well written that component will be, it completely destroys the setting of the 40k universe.
I hope to God that it isn't true. Otherwise the last vestige of 40k that has remained sacrosanct from the pillaging and rampaging Sales Department will be forever lost. Inserting the Storm Raven into every piece of Blood Angels background in their Chapter timeline is one thing, completely shattering the ethos and spiritual heart of the 40k universe so they will have an excuse to sell more kits (combined SM and Tau in this case) is another.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Oh I'm just ignoring these rumors, period, Pacific. They reek of trolling and if they truly did get them from an "inside source" at GW--that "inside source" is probably a register monkey at their local shop making things up as he goes.
The fact of the matter is that the Tau were unknown during the Emperor's time. They were discovered around the 38th or so millenium, and then promptly engulfed by a warp storm making their drastic technological boom possible as time flowed faster within than without.
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Post by: Amaya
I have to admit whoever came up with that is a masterful troll.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Kanluwen wrote:Oh I'm just ignoring these rumors, period, Pacific. They reek of trolling and if they truly did get them from an "inside source" at GW--that "inside source" is probably a register monkey at their local shop making things up as he goes.
The fact of the matter is that the Tau were unknown during the Emperor's time. They were discovered around the 38th or so millenium, and then promptly engulfed by a warp storm making their drastic technological boom possible as time flowed faster within than without.
Surely a few thousand years of "normal" time is plenty in which to develop a technological civilization? No need to inflate the timeline any further.
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Post by: Flashman
Agamemnon2 wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Oh I'm just ignoring these rumors, period, Pacific. They reek of trolling and if they truly did get them from an "inside source" at GW--that "inside source" is probably a register monkey at their local shop making things up as he goes.
The fact of the matter is that the Tau were unknown during the Emperor's time. They were discovered around the 38th or so millenium, and then promptly engulfed by a warp storm making their drastic technological boom possible as time flowed faster within than without.
Surely a few thousand years of "normal" time is plenty in which to develop a technological civilization? No need to inflate the timeline any further.
What including inter planetary space travel? Well we're not there yet. It must be the lack of team work
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Post by: Samurai_Eduh
If the allies thing is true, I see it working like it does in Fantasy currently. It does not have any effect on a normal game, but if you play Apocolypse or something where you have different factions on each team, alliances effect how powers affect other team members, etc. I see the Tyranids being like the Skaven in Fantasy in this regard; they are distrusted allies for every faction in the game.
What this WILL NOT be is being able to buy units from another army for standard games. That would be ridiculous, even for GW.
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Post by: gorgon
While I don't like the sound of the rules changes, they're all plausible. We'll see.
The thing that gives me pause is the part about fluff changes. Things like "the Imperium fracturing" etc sound more than a little like the fluff change rumors going into 3rd edition. And of course they didn't happen. The stuff mentioned may end up being very subtle things in print. Still, I'm skeptical of any "fluff advancement." GW just doesn't do it a major way.
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Post by: Kingsley
I don't believe these rumors, though I wouldn't hugely mind if they proved true.
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Post by: Lexington
Guys, the Ork thing was a joke - I nicked it off an archived version of Portent, from the days leading up to 3rd Edition. Point being, there's always rumors about the new edition bringing huge background "advances," and yet then never actually happen.
PS: If you take a look, you'll notice that the plastic Thunderhawk rumors have been around just as long...
52215
Post by: spectreoneone
I knew as soon as I read this rumor, all of the Tau haters would rear their ugly heads.
While I don't really believe this rumor to have one iota of truth, I would love so much to rub the importance of the Tau in the 6th fluff into the self-righteous haters faces out there.
And, honestly, to those of you would would leave 40k because of some fluff changes, good riddance. Seriously...if you have a problem with it, go play something else. It's no different than a child throwing a tantrum because something didn't happen the way they wanted it to.
I can understand somebody being upset if the rules are changed in a way that breaks the game, but how often does the fluff affect a typical game? Besides, it even says in the 40k main rulebook that the rules, fluff, etc. are there as a guideline, and you're always free to create your own rules within your gaming group. And, in the end, you can always revert back to good ol' 5th edition, as I am sure there are still folks out there who play with the "better" previous editions. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by: Kingsley
Samurai_Eduh wrote:If the allies thing is true, I see it working like it does in Fantasy currently. It does not have any effect on a normal game, but if you play Apocolypse or something where you have different factions on each team, alliances effect how powers affect other team members, etc. I see the Tyranids being like the Skaven in Fantasy in this regard; they are distrusted allies for every faction in the game.
What this WILL NOT be is being able to buy units from another army for standard games. That would be ridiculous, even for GW.
Concur.
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Post by: Kanluwen
spectreoneone wrote:I knew as soon as I read this rumor, all of the Tau haters would rear their ugly heads.
"Hater" is thrown around far, far too much these days.
While I don't really believe this rumor to have one iota of truth, I would love so much to rub the importance of the Tau in the 6th fluff into the self-righteous haters faces out there.
Yes, the importance of a dynamically expanding empire which in the grand scheme of things is like if all the species of sharks in the world were to band themselves together and create the great nation of Sharktopia and declare their domain to be Wisconsin.
And, honestly, to those of you would would leave 40k because of some fluff changes, good riddance. Seriously...if you have a problem with it, go play something else. It's no different than a child throwing a tantrum because something didn't happen the way they wanted it to.
I can understand somebody being upset if the rules are changed in a way that breaks the game, but how often does the fluff affect a typical game? Besides, it even says in the 40k main rulebook that the rules, fluff, etc. are there as a guideline, and you're always free to create your own rules within your gaming group. And, in the end, you can always revert back to good ol' 5th edition, as I am sure there are still folks out there who play with the "better" previous editions. Just my 2 cents.
Some people have more interest in the background of the universe than playing tournaments. I'm one of those people, where I would far rather play a series of narrative games set up as a campaign than a bunch of tournaments.
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Post by: The Dwarf Wolf
It is a good fluff... People really dont like changes...
If a great space marine agree with that, and the news spread fast, some space marines will just leave the empire, others will give it a s****, others will do like the emperor wishes.
It is not so hard to believe, just dont make it so general... BT would never do a thing like that, DA would never do a thing like that (or maybe, if the proofs are good enough, they could decide to go that way for redemption), the Ultras? Man, those are the most powerfull space marine chapter, and they seek the word of reboute gulliman and the emperor. Iff the proofs are good enough, they could very well do it...
If good things never happen in 40k, why the age of aposthasy got finished?
And the Tau being the "untainted race", that is very plausible, look at their fluff and they hold it very well. Dont forget thay born after emperor "ascendancy", and where clear protected from the empire and from the chaos, until they "explode" as a great race.
The fluff is not horrid, there still will be chapters of space marines who dont accept to allie with xenos, all they are saying is that some chapters started to believe in something else, and started to protect one specific race. It can even be a chaos scheme... it would not be the first time.
Dont forget ultras are a powerfull, very influent chapter, and they are very proud of themselves... Some chapter master can surelly get mad with the empire, and it would hold a lot of authoriy among 70% of the space marines chapters over the empire...
And dont forget, Space Wolves are a lot smaller than that, but can hold very heretical practices, and resisted all tentatives from the inquisition to "oversee their practices".
Anyway, BoK have the habit of creating rumors, and i will not believe until i see it...
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Post by: Ravenous D
spectreoneone wrote:I knew as soon as I read this rumor, all of the Tau haters would rear their ugly heads.
While I don't really believe this rumor to have one iota of truth, I would love so much to rub the importance of the Tau in the 6th fluff into the self-righteous haters faces out there.
And, honestly, to those of you would would leave 40k because of some fluff changes, good riddance. Seriously...if you have a problem with it, go play something else. It's no different than a child throwing a tantrum because something didn't happen the way they wanted it to.
I can understand somebody being upset if the rules are changed in a way that breaks the game, but how often does the fluff affect a typical game? Besides, it even says in the 40k main rulebook that the rules, fluff, etc. are there as a guideline, and you're always free to create your own rules within your gaming group. And, in the end, you can always revert back to good ol' 5th edition, as I am sure there are still folks out there who play with the "better" previous editions. Just my 2 cents.
You're the kind of guy that gets his car trashed by a poop flinging monkey and says "I love that shade of brown and exotic smell". Just saying.
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Post by: Kroothawk
The Dwarf Wolf wrote:And the Tau being the "untainted race", that is very plausible, look at their fluff and they hold it very well.
Actually, this originated in the controversial book Xenology, where there are hints that Eldar created the Ethereal race to make Tau "immune to Chaos". And in most campaigns, Tau ally with the IoM anyway. Not saying that the BoK rumours are true though.
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Post by: deathholydeath
A lot of people play the game solely for fluff and theme. Changing the fluff that much would be a big blow.
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Post by: Griever
This fluff change is awful. All of these are dumb and hopefully none of them happen.
Tau is one of my three armies (Necrons, Tau, & Orks).
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Kanluwen wrote:
And apparently we've reached the Ward Point.
Phil Kelly was one of the guys who "kept it a static universe"--and he's been changing it for years.
Andy Chambers was one of the guys who "created that static universe", and he changed it plenty while he was still with the company.
I could go on and on and on--but the point is that what Ward is doing has been done by those people who you obviously venerate.
Was it done so blatantly in some cases? Certainly not.
But let's not forget that Kelly wrote about an Ork destroying a Titan by crashing a motorcycle through it.
And, Kan, I called those guys out on their bs too. (though Chambers bs is at least of a slightly higher grade then Ward, though not by a lot)
I was making broad generalizations for humorous effect. Because frankly, I'm trying not to laugh my ass off at the moment; it's fun to see, almost to a poster, hypocrites whine and bitch about the possibility of them changing fluff, who told me to STFU when I bitched about changing the fluff to Battlefleet Gothic.
It's like laser guided karma. The only way it could be better is if GW announces the first 6th edition codex will be Codex: Female Loyalist Chaos Grey Knights by Matt Ward and CS Goto! Then I'll be able to drink the sweet, sweet tears of all those fat beards weeping into their rulebooks!
Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
LET THE GALAXY BURN!
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Post by: darknightwing
I think it is better to wait and see something concrete before we all get in a huff because of rumored changes.
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Post by: garrapignado
darknightwing wrote:I think it is better to wait and see something concrete before we all get in a huff because of rumored changes.
That's exactly the greatness of Rumours forum! We love or hate things that 80% times are not happening! We grow hatred against the rumoured next overpowered army and when new units or books really come to stores (finally not so overpowered), we discharge this fury against them, throwing dices to wound as we would throw napalm over our enemy's minis. And when the last foe is dead, we shout "Where is your new super salvation roll now????". Of course your friend, who didn't read that rumour 8 months ago, doesn't know what are you talking about...
About people not liking changes... I think every 40k player has his own idea of where should go the fluff, so very likely it won't happen as desired.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
garrapignado wrote:... throwing dices to wound as we would throw napalm over our enemy's minis.
Sadly, that is both a war crime AND gets a serious deduction to your sportsmanship score...
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Post by: evilsponge
Lots of self denial ITT
Edit: The rules for allies is way overdue in 40k but the way they're explaining it in the fluff is laugh out loud bad. Warhammer's brand has always been on "grmmness" and seeing GW shoe horn Space Marines and Tau into actually being best buds is hilariously Saturday Morning Cartoons.
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Post by: Necrosis
BaronIveagh wrote:It's like laser guided karma. The only way it could be better is if GW announces the first 6th edition codex will be Codex: Female Loyalist Chaos Grey Knights by Matt Ward and CS Goto! Then I'll be able to drink the sweet, sweet tears of all those fat beards weeping into their rulebooks!
I would buy that army!
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Post by: spectreoneone
Kanluwen wrote:spectreoneone wrote:I knew as soon as I read this rumor, all of the Tau haters would rear their ugly heads.
"Hater" is thrown around far, far too much these days.
While I don't really believe this rumor to have one iota of truth, I would love so much to rub the importance of the Tau in the 6th fluff into the self-righteous haters faces out there.
Yes, the importance of a dynamically expanding empire which in the grand scheme of things is like if all the species of sharks in the world were to band themselves together and create the great nation of Sharktopia and declare their domain to be Wisconsin.
And, honestly, to those of you would would leave 40k because of some fluff changes, good riddance. Seriously...if you have a problem with it, go play something else. It's no different than a child throwing a tantrum because something didn't happen the way they wanted it to.
I can understand somebody being upset if the rules are changed in a way that breaks the game, but how often does the fluff affect a typical game? Besides, it even says in the 40k main rulebook that the rules, fluff, etc. are there as a guideline, and you're always free to create your own rules within your gaming group. And, in the end, you can always revert back to good ol' 5th edition, as I am sure there are still folks out there who play with the "better" previous editions. Just my 2 cents.
Some people have more interest in the background of the universe than playing tournaments. I'm one of those people, where I would far rather play a series of narrative games set up as a campaign than a bunch of tournaments.
I'm going to clarify a bit...I let my frustration get the better of me in that post (just kind of fed up with people saying "I'm going to quit the game if [insert race X here] gets special treatment). I am not a tournament 40k player, nor is my Tau army built to be a competitive army. I chose my armies based upon how they look, and how the play, not necessarily what their backgrounds are. That aside, I recognize that folks play armies because of their background. The problem I have with folks getting bent out of shape about these rumored changes is the fact that they think that alliances are static, or that an army like the Tau doesn't "deserve" to steal the limelight away from the IoM, Chaos, etc. I think that dynaism in the story should be encouraged. With things like the impending failure of the Golden Throne, the IoM's own xenophobia, and the growing power of other races, I think it's good and right for the Xenos to steal the spotlight in 6th. Some of us get tired of the status quo, and GW has to keep the game interesting, or it will get stale.
All of that aside, the biggest point I make is that it is childish to say "I'm going to quit 40k" because of fluff changes. Just because GW's fluff changes, doesn't mean that you have to bring that into your group's canon. 40k, and miniature wargames like it, thrive on the creativity of its players. You don't have to accept the changes, you just continue using your old minatures, buy up the new ones, use the new rules if you want, or keep using the old ones. The game is really what you make of it. That's why I get so upset when people throw tantrums over things like this. There are ways to enjoy the game without accepting the changes you don't like. But, in my opinion, change is good, and I think 40k needs more of it.
Ravenous D wrote:
You're the kind of guy that gets his car trashed by a poop flinging monkey and says "I love that shade of brown and exotic smell". Just saying.
I think a better analogy is that "if life gives you lemons, make lemonade." Just because change happens, doesn't mean it's bad.
Edit: grammar.
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Post by: Alpharius
evilsponge wrote:Lots of self denial ITT
Edit: The rules for allies is way overdue in 40k but the way they're explaining it in the fluff is laugh out loud bad. Warhammer's brand has always been on "grmmness" and seeing GW shoe horn Space Marines and Tau into actually being best buds is hilariously Saturday Morning Cartoons.
It is almost as if you actually think these rumors have a snowball's chance of being true!
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Post by: Moopy
Since I'm not 5 years old, I have a hard time believing anything that starts with, "OMG".
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
Moopy wrote:Since I'm not 5 years old, I have a hard time believing anything that starts with, "OMG".
Ditto that, except in my case it's things that begin with 'Subject:' or 'Re:'
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Post by: hellpato
I will only belive this kind of bul@¢¤!%it when someone will give where he had taken is "sources"....
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Post by: warboss
Yeeaaaaah.... I'm going to file this set of rumors under BS. This is about as likely as an official crossover where the Inquisition is revealed to be Cobra in disguise and the emperor is really Serpentor.
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Post by: derek
Sidstyler wrote:You have to, H. Your Spiritual Liege commands it.
Mat Ward?
I could live with all of these changes save the random charge length, and buying buildings. Perhaps the building thing for a campaign like system, but for normal games I just don't see it, and it's doubtful tournaments would allow it anyway.
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Post by: Slackermagee
If, IF these rumors are on target, we have a lot to be thankful for.
We should be thankful that someone had the balls to leak the playtest HereticHammer. We should be thankful that it was seen far and wide, and generally accepted as being a pretty good rough draft. We should be thankful that GW pulled the hell out of the tournament scene, letting indie stores run HereticHammer as they damn well please.
Overall, nothing to be too scared of in either case. Personally? I believe Tasty is being an obnoxious link bait troll right now.
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Post by: CT GAMER
Redemption wrote:Allies would completely screw over any sense of 'balance' 40k had. Remember when IG could take Daemonhunter Inquisitors with unlimited range Ld10 psychic hoods and anti-deepstrike Mystics? Now imagine that with every army capable of taking the strongest units from other codexes to cover their weaknesses.
So in effect tournament players will love it...
36295
Post by: Hückleberry
"Hey what do you play?"
"Tau Angels, 9 broadsides, mephiston, 50 jump marines, and a couple priests."
4884
Post by: Therion
Hückleberry wrote:"Hey what do you play?"
"Tau Angels, 9 broadsides, mephiston, 50 jump marines, and a couple priests."
Mephiston is already allied with his homie Imotekh the Stormlord. Together they'll bring the Imperium to its knees!
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Post by: streamdragon
spectreoneone wrote:I think a better analogy is that "if life gives you lemons, make lemonade." Just because change happens, doesn't mean it's bad.
Not all change is bad, I agree.
That fluff? That's freaking Chris Metzen levels of bad. Look at it:
"The Tau are the secret to beating back Chaos"
Are you frelling kidding me? The little punks with no warp travel, living in basically an isolated pocket, with no psychic defense what so ever, are the keys to beating back Chaos?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Or there's the one from the second PowerThirst ad:
"When God gives you lemons you find a new god!!!"
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Post by: megatrons2nd
Why would they need a psychic defense? They put the greater good before themselves. How would the Chaos gods corrupt them? All those pleasures we take for granted, and to excess all to frequently, the Tau do not typically do. I think the Chaos gods don't want to expend the energy to corrupt something that tends to be more selfless than other species of the galaxy. There is all to little fluff on the Tau, but aside from a couple "rumors" and Imperial dogma there is nothing saying that Tau can be corrupted in the same manner as other denizens of the universe.
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Post by: AndrewC
derek wrote:Sidstyler wrote:You have to, H. Your Spiritual Liege commands it.
Mat Ward?
I could live with all of these changes save the random charge length, and buying buildings. Perhaps the building thing for a campaign like system, but for normal games I just don't see it, and it's doubtful tournaments would allow it anyway.
It would save TOs the problem of having to put terrain on every board? I've said it in the past that I would like to see terrain as part of your army selection, How often do you see impassable water features on the boards? IG players with Chimeras would love to see those. Kroot looking for woods? You would never have to cross your fingers and hope when you can take them with you.
YMMV
Cheers
Andrew
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Post by: AlexHolker
AndrewC wrote:derek wrote:I could live with all of these changes save the random charge length, and buying buildings. Perhaps the building thing for a campaign like system, but for normal games I just don't see it, and it's doubtful tournaments would allow it anyway.
It would save TOs the problem of having to put terrain on every board? I've said it in the past that I would like to see terrain as part of your army selection, How often do you see impassable water features on the boards? IG players with Chimeras would love to see those.
That's exactly why they shouldn't get them. The last thing the SAFH needs is a moat.
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Post by: tobi-nid-guy
Awesome! l can take allies! *looks down at tyranid codex* FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Post by: gorgon
Well, in the pancake edition, you could "buy" buildings and obstacles if you lost the bid for first turn. The document also references a missing narrative section. It's not unreasonable to assume rules for buying buildings and allies could be in such a section (and thus would probably be something not recommended for tourney play).
Again, I think the fluff stuff alone raises some major question marks. But the rules rumors could be accurate in the right context.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
tobi-nid-guy wrote:Awesome! l can take allies! *looks down at tyranid codex* FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
I'd sure the nids will get some uber rule that makes allies unnecessary. Like every single unit getting 'Without Number' or something. I'm sure SoB will get squat (pun intended).
Personally, it would be nice to see the plot advance some. I mean, frankly, how long have we been fighting the 13th Black Crusade? It's been won, lost, and ended in a stalemate. GW actually had to cheat Chaos players to keep Failbaddon from storming out of the Eye and swallowing up the IoM by double counting Imperial wins in the BFG part of that one. (Having learned the lesson, I guess, of the Empire in Flames campaign for fantasy that, well.... did just what it says in the title and ended with the death of Karl Franz and the destruction of the Empire. Man did THAT get retconned fast!)
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Post by: Avariel
I am hoping this is not true.
More randomness is what people really didn't like about 8th edition Fantasy. Random charge distances are one of the most complained about issues with 8th edition Fantasy after the way to random magic phase. Random battle effects sounds like it would be terrible.
Purchasing fortifications and buildings sounds like fun. More deployments and missions will keep things interesting.
Allies seems terribad. Hard to balance. There are some pretty silly combinations like blood angel librarian with fear the darkness and imperial guard psyker battle squad that just are not fun.
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Post by: AndrewC
AlexHolker wrote:That's exactly why they shouldn't get them. The last thing the SAFH needs is a moat.
Okay valid viewpoint, but why should one persons advantage be discounted in favour of anothers?
Cheers
Andrew
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
Allies and over watch?
Fondly remembers Space Wolf Terminators Assault Cannon dice with pop up Overwatch Eldar Grav Tanks. Ok, maybe not fondly--but I do remember.
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Post by: dæl
It has been said, but that fluff is beyond terrible.
As is pretty much everything else in these rumours.
It all seems like a troll, what with the ba-necron allies reference and grey knights getting to choose powers, its almost as if it's intention is to breed hatred.
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Post by: Sunde
What army do you play?
Tau Knights - I'm rolling deep with Broadsides, Crysis Suits, Crowe, Purifiers, and Psyflemen Dreads!
As much fun as it would be to toss some GK protection into my Tau (And OMG I'd love it for a while) I dont see this happening at all. I would like to see limited ally choices though, like others have said similar to Fantasy.
Random Charge distance would be gakky, and random effects sound nifty (On a 4+ an earthquake happens on turn 5 and everything on the board suffers D6 S3 wounds, vehicles suffer glancing hits on 5+ with a -3 modifier instead of -2) and buying terrain sounds fun as well. I still highly doubt any of this is true - as is the norm with me and rumors so there is no need to get bent out of shape on them.
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Post by: Red Corsair
AgeOfEgos wrote:Allies and over watch?
Fondly remembers Space Wolf Terminators Assault Cannon dice with pop up Overwatch Eldar Grav Tanks. Ok, maybe not fondly--but I do remember.
Yea, 2nd edition was pretty awful. That was before power gamers were around too. Some rules were left with great reason.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
This rumor can't be anything but a simple troll. It hits every right mark.
-Specific mention of rouboute guiliman and retcons for BL stuff
-Space marines leaving the imperium for the tau
-Allies with specific mention of blood angels+necrons and a further nerf for tyranids
-random charge distance, the most reviled feature of fantasy
-Repetitious mention of the fakeness of the previous popular rules leak rumor
-Further implied buffs for grey knights
This was practically lifted from 4chan.
Either GW rules writers are a trollish and suicidal lot or this is just elaborate trollish bs meant to draw traffic away from BoWs elaborate bs.
40k blogs are bs
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Post by: Kilkrazy
evilsponge wrote:Lots of self denial ITT
Edit: The rules for allies is way overdue in 40k but the way they're explaining it in the fluff is laugh out loud bad. Warhammer's brand has always been on "grmmness" and seeing GW shoe horn Space Marines and Tau into actually being best buds is hilariously Saturday Morning Cartoons.
Don't tempt Fate.
GW markets the HHHobby to 12 year olds rather than veterans. Automatically Appended Next Post: I don't see a problem with random charge distance. We already have random movement distance for any unit moving through cover or running.
It would make assaulting less powerful, which would be a good thing.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
I don't see a problem with random charge distance. We already have random movement distance for any unit moving through cover or running.
Which is awful. Random charge distances wouldn't even have the rough logic of "that forest is slowing them down". It's just a purely random element with no justification. I have a change of missing with a sword swing or a bullet, but I know how fast I can run, it's not going to have a multiple of six variance. I don't just sometimes decide to run backwards when I'm trying to go as fast as I can. It would make assaulting less powerful, which would be a good thing.
Assaulting is already weak, thats why the most powerful armies in the game are the ones with the cheapest access to the most numerous heavy weapons (guard, GKs, IG). It's also why the dedicated assault armies can't really ever seem to place well in tournies (excepting orks).
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Man, that Portent archive makes me long for the days of ancient past. Things were better then. No forums, no chatrooms or bloggers stirring up crap. The future was a mystery then, and what a mystery it was.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
ShumaGorath wrote:This was practically lifted from 4chan.
I have a whole stack of "rumours" from a while back. Quite extensive actually. Went into great detail about the future of 40K. You know why I never posted them? They were a 4Channer's wet dream, that's why. Endless mentions of killing Guilliman and Calgar, decimation of the Ultramarines and loads of other typical (and typically boring) /tg/-esque Ultramarine hate (plus a lot of stuff dealing with how Ward was off contract and no longer writing books). Oh sure there were loads of interesting concepts, but it was so burdened by the big axe it was attempting to grind that it was just completely unbelievable.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Frankly, any change is preferable to stagnation. I'd like to see something, anything happen to the game, instead of another round of small and ultimately arbitrary rules tweaks.
The rules are literally the least interesting thing about 40k.
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Post by: Sidstyler
Doesn't sound too different from all the SM fanboys saying Tau should be wiped out by the Imperium and effectively Squatted.
Agamemnon2 wrote:The rules are literally the least interesting thing about 40k.
And making 40k 6th more like WHF 8th would be the deathblow, in my opinion.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Sidstyler wrote:Doesn't sound too different from all the SM fanboys saying Tau should be wiped out by the Imperium and effectively Squatted.
You're just annoyed 'cause we're right.
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Post by: Smitty0305
Dont think any of this is true
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Post by: Kingsley
Now, as I said earlier, I don't believe these rumors. That said, I'll point out that selecting powers during deployment is a buff, not a nerf, and hence would benefit everybody that wasn't Grey Knights. My Space Marine Librarian would love to be able to choose which powers he uses based on the opponent-- Null Zone, for instance, is incredibly great against some opponents and outright worthless against others, but with this change I could bring it out against Dæmons and swap for something else against, say, Mech IG.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Sidstyler wrote:And making 40k 6th more like WHF 8th would be the deathblow, in my opinion.
And that alone would create an interesting metagame dynamic. Communities and tournaments would be free to do their own thing, people could even write their own iterations and additions to whatever edition of the rules they liked (I'd favor the 6E forgery, myself). Other games would have a golden opportunity to grow their own business, the balance and market shares of the whole industry could shift in countless hard-to-predict, and above all, interesting ways.
i'm not advocating that 40k go down the drain because I want to see things be destroyed. I'd welcome it because of the precise opposite, because things would get created.
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Post by: KarlPedder
Ah I love it....this, this wouldn't happen because it doesn't fit my vision of what 40k is.....
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Post by: ShumaGorath
And that alone would create an interesting metagame dynamic. Communities and tournaments would be free to do their own thing, people could even write their own iterations and additions to whatever edition of the rules they liked (I'd favor the 6E forgery, myself). Other games would have a golden opportunity to grow their own business, the balance and market shares of the whole industry could shift in countless hard-to-predict, and above all, interesting ways.
And the whole thing would collapse rapidly due to a lack of uniformity, eventually becoming the least interesting thing possible. Something that doesn't exist.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
People are always going on about how nothing's better than GW, so I guess we'd at least find out if they were right.
My money's on nothing.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
Agamemnon2 wrote:People are always going on about how nothing's better than GW, so I guess we'd at least find out if they were right.
My money's on nothing.
Ask battletech fans.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
I would, but really, liking Battletech is punishment enough for those people, they don't need the added aggravation of talking to me about it.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
So you've got a beef with BattleTech as well Aggy? Waitaminute - it's you, our own resident Eeyore. Finding something you like is next to impossible...
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Post by: Valkyrie
Redemption wrote:
The Imperium is fracturing and the Space Marines are starting to separate themselves from the Lords of Terra. The heretical and xenophobia has gotten to a tipping point causing many chapters to take actions against the “best wishes” of many in the Imperium.
A discovery of galactic importance has happened.
At a time before right before the Horus Heresy the Emperor had intrusted Roboute Guilliman in the protection of one Xenos race that was completely immune the temptations of Chaos and would prove the ultimate key to the destruction of Chaos. The Horus Heresy ended such plans. Fast forward today with discovery of these lost correspondences, it is believed by the Ultramarines and others that the Tau are that lost race. So now instead of being charge with their destruction the Astartes are the Tau protectors.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
H.B.M.C. wrote:So you've got a beef with BattleTech as well Aggy? Waitaminute - it's you, our own resident Eeyore. Finding something you like is next to impossible...
Bollocks. Exhibit A.
Agamemnon2 wrote:These are rather nice. £2 each for regular grunts is competitive with FW's £36-for-10 Infernal Guard, and especially the Royal Guard look very nicely sculpted, as do the command bits and the characters (the handweapon and shield guys are a bit less good, but still workable, certainly with a little creative gizmology.
Bonus points for the dwarf woman who is easily the best single sculpt in the range, IMHO, though the facial detail on the pistol-armed hero is also very nice. I'd like to see their sculptor doing more faces and less helmets, since he clearly can do the former better than the latter.
That's me on the Titan Wargames' new dwarves range.
Exhibit B.
Agamemnon2 wrote:So far, the only thing I don't really like are the Scourge drop ships, and even those just look weird as opposed to fugly, so a strong start for the challenger, I guess.
That's me on Dropzone Commander.
Care to rework your assessment, or shall I simply consider my honor impugned?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I'm actually more interested in your derision for BTech then your attempts to defend your "honour".
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Post by: Agamemnon2
I see. Tough.
26728
Post by: Bavius
I don't know guys, maybe its in, maybe its not. But I don't like it.
34612
Post by: Ledabot
This is aweful!
Therefore, it must be a lie.
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Post by: Valkyrie
Ledabot wrote:This is aweful!
Therefore, it must be fully approved by GW
Fix'd
19970
Post by: Jadenim
Ledabot wrote:This is aweful!
Therefore, it must be a lie.
I really hope there's supposed to be sarcasm in there, because my experience so far with GW is that one thing has nothing to do with the other...
With regards to the fluff changes, I really think this depends on how it's done; if it's the entire Astartes organisation doing a 180 and setting up a cordon around the Tau empire then that will be terrible.
However if it were more of someone finding an ancient prophesy from the Emperor that speaks of the rise of a new race that will be the salvation of mankind from Chaos then that could prove interesting, as it would be open to interpretation. It could lead to all sorts of interesting fractures and friction in the imperium, for example:
Maybe the Ultras take it as a direct command to seek out and ally with the Tau, but the Space Wolves actually believe that it is an instruction to use the Tau as cannon fodder to shield the imperium. The Templars will assume it is a fake and immediately launch a crusade to eliminate the Tau before the others can allow them to contaminate the imperium. Maybe another faction believes that Tau technology can be used to fix the Golden Throne, which will fulfil the prophesy.
What I'm getting at is that this would shake up some of the established relationships and actually add to the feeling of desperation and decay within the imperium, if it's done with subtlety and insinuation.
Of course the biggest problem is finding someone at GW that doesn't need to look up subtlety in a dictionary just to know what it means...
P.S. I chose the chapters at random just for an example, no offence meant :-)
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Post by: KarlPedder
Jadenim wrote:Ledabot wrote:This is aweful!
Therefore, it must be a lie.
With regards to the fluff changes, I really think this depends on how it's done; if it's the entire Astartes organisation doing a 180 and setting up a cordon around the Tau empire then that will be terrible.
However if it were more of someone finding an ancient prophesy from the Emperor that speaks of the rise of a new race that will be the salvation of mankind from Chaos then that could prove interesting, as it would be open to interpretation. It could lead to all sorts of interesting fractures and friction in the imperium, for example:
Maybe the Ultras take it as a direct command to seek out and ally with the Tau, but the Space Wolves actually believe that it is an instruction to use the Tau as cannon fodder to shield the imperium. The Templars will assume it is a fake and immediately launch a crusade to eliminate the Tau before the others can allow them to contaminate the imperium. Maybe another faction believes that Tau technology can be used to fix the Golden Throne, which will fulfil the prophesy.
It wont matter if its handled in a masterful manner you would still get the folk who feel it degrades their vision of their army thus whining ensues......
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Post by: Jadenim
*sigh* I know, the internet is the metropolis of whines, I just thought I'd try and inject a little bit of hope...
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Post by: spiraleddie
I say bring on the advancing of the canon, the 40K universe as it is is getting stale and needs a new direction.
It doesnt matter to me if they choose to ally to previously unallyable factions or whatever tangent they choose as long as it is done in a interesting way that will keep me engaged with 40k, if they dont maybe i will play more mass effect.
The rumour about terrain being purchased before game doesnt sound too far fetched, as i think 40K terrain would be an area of considerable growth for citadel minis
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Post by: Ledabot
You don't know if I was saying it stright? I don't know why you would think its sarcastic. just look at it. The story pulled itself out of a jeroco weaponsmiths arse, but you could also take it to be a comment about how everybodys doing the oh noooooes!.
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Post by: Mad4Minis
carmachu wrote:Mad4Minis wrote:No matter what they do to the rules or the fluff, I bet that every single one of you that are complaining right now still play the game and buy GW products.
Ah the foolish fanboys speak.
No, more then a few of us have stopped buying and even stopped playing. Our group of a dozen have abandoned GW completely, to the point of selling GW stuff off to buy warmhordes stuff. Or mailfax.
I doubt we're alone.
Fanboy? LMAO. I dont play any GW game systems. I buy plenty of their minis for use with other systems, but dont use any GW rules sets... 40k, WHFB, LoTR, none of them.
Well...I do play some Necromunda now and then...so if that makes me a fanboy...
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Post by: CT GAMER
spiraleddie wrote:I say bring on the advancing of the canon, the 40K universe as it is is getting stale and needs a new direction.
Just no.
The the universe is fine.
The horrid codexes, gakky rules changes and twink-gamers that will abuse things like the allies rules are what is stale...
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Post by: 1hadhq
Jadenim wrote:*sigh* I know, the internet is the metropolis of whines, I just thought I'd try and inject a little bit of hope...
Hope?
in WH 40k ?
The imminent danger of it not being well done far outstrips the chances of believable "advancements" of the background.
Plus advancing a setting ....
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
spiraleddie wrote:I say bring on the advancing of the canon, the 40K universe as it is is getting stale and needs a new direction.
Those of us in the land of the 40K RPG's beg to differ...
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Post by: Jadenim
1hadhq wrote:Jadenim wrote:*sigh* I know, the internet is the metropolis of whines, I just thought I'd try and inject a little bit of hope...
Hope?
in WH 40k ?
The imminent danger of it not being well done far outstrips the chances of believable "advancements" of the background.
Plus advancing a setting ....
I actually meant hope for us that we get a decent ruleset, not actual hope in the game setting. That would be ludicrous
P.S. I think you were joking anyway
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Post by: Agamemnon2
H.B.M.C. wrote:spiraleddie wrote:I say bring on the advancing of the canon, the 40K universe as it is is getting stale and needs a new direction.
Those of us in the land of the 40K RPG's beg to differ...
Whether or not the RPGs work doesn't really reflect on GW's worldbuilding. Indeed, I'd argue that it's FFG's writers who are responsible for the success of those games (together, obviously, with rather impressive production values).
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Post by: akkados
Redemption wrote:http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/05/05/network-news-the-6th-edition-leak-and/
The Imperium is fracturing and the Space Marines are starting to separate themselves from the Lords of Terra. The heretical and xenophobia has gotten to a tipping point causing many chapters to take actions against the “best wishes” of many in the Imperium.
A discovery of galactic importance has happened.
Damn, I cannot stop thinking Dark angels splitting from the empire because their secret is out. But while they still serve humanity, they are branded renegades along with all that joined them.
Black Templar's fluff are already on the verge of being renegades as their numbers are rumored to be a whooping 6000+ marines. They are also less likely to do what others tell them too, and more what they feel is right in their eyes.
They serve the emperor and none else.
Thats would make a fitting split but still staying on the path.
Anyways if the emperor dies, their is at least a chance GW could start a new epic saga with a new star-child. Think about it. the empires falls only to reborn anew.
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Post by: His Master's Voice
The funny thing is, Tau as the saviors of the galaxy do not make any sense under the current Chaos fluff. None whatsoever. Chaos is a threat because sentient creatures make it a threat. It's not like Nids that come from somewhere, go somewhere and can be stopped inbetween. Chaos doesn't have a real goal and will exist as long as hate, rage, lust and all the other voices exist. So the only way Tau can save Humanity from Chaos is by brainwashing every single human (and Eldar and probably a bunch of other races) into a mindless drone. That will starve the Chaos gods and bring everlasting, drooling peace.
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Post by: vanadium322
From a chaos marine player's perspective, I kinda hope the allies thing is true, because it's a fairly elegant solution to the presence/absence of daemons in our codex. From everyone else's perspective, it's seems pretty screwy. So I'm not sure whether to root for this one or not!
I think if they somehow restrict ally unit selection to a fairly small list, it might work... but I'm not sure how they'd do that across all current and future codices.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
His Master's Voice wrote:The funny thing is, Tau as the saviors of the galaxy do not make any sense under the current Chaos fluff. None whatsoever. Chaos is a threat because sentient creatures make it a threat. It's not like Nids that come from somewhere, go somewhere and can be stopped inbetween. Chaos doesn't have a real goal and will exist as long as hate, rage, lust and all the other voices exist. So the only way Tau can save Humanity from Chaos is by brainwashing every single human (and Eldar and probably a bunch of other races) into a mindless drone. That will starve the Chaos gods and bring everlasting, drooling peace.
Actually it does and is strongly hinted at in current fluff.
1.) Tau being immune to Chaos: No incident of corrupted tau in the Codex. The old Daemonhunter Codex lists several scenarios why they should fight other races instead of just daemons: The Tau entry doesn't list corrupted Tau. In the novel Firewarrior, a daemon finds "one in a million" of Firewarriors where he sees a chance of corruption (he doesn't even try the ethereal). In the end he utterly falis even with this exceptionally emotional Firewarrior. The (controversial book) Xenology strongly hints that Eldar created the first Ethereal to create a race immune to Chaos. And having a low presence in the warp, no psykers and no idea of what warp and Chaos is, adds to the picture.
2.) Mankind and the universe are in a state of global Montau, where people out of their mind are slaying each other for no reason at all. Hate and fear rule. This is worse than even today's earth. Now imagine that charismatic leaders preach peace, love and understanding in Dalai Lama style. Or control their emotions like Vulkans did. This could definitely weaken Chaos and break up the stalemate. Having a big mobile army immune to Chaos corruption helps of course, and having a new ally instead of another enemy as well.
Not saying that the BoK rumours are correct of course. Just discussing the possible consequences.
43262
Post by: KarlPedder
His Master's Voice wrote:The funny thing is, Tau as the saviors of the galaxy do not make any sense under the current Chaos fluff. None whatsoever. Chaos is a threat because sentient creatures make it a threat. It's not like Nids that come from somewhere, go somewhere and can be stopped inbetween. Chaos doesn't have a real goal and will exist as long as hate, rage, lust and all the other voices exist. So the only way Tau can save Humanity from Chaos is by brainwashing every single human (and Eldar and probably a bunch of other races) into a mindless drone. That will starve the Chaos gods and bring everlasting, drooling peace.
I think your overstating it a little there seems to be a direct correlation between psychic potential and the injudicious use of such potential and even then there seems to be exceptions such as the Orks where there has never really been any indication that their warlike activities buff khorne.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
nm.
37505
Post by: Nagashek
KarlPedder wrote:His Master's Voice wrote:The funny thing is, Tau as the saviors of the galaxy do not make any sense under the current Chaos fluff. None whatsoever. Chaos is a threat because sentient creatures make it a threat. It's not like Nids that come from somewhere, go somewhere and can be stopped inbetween. Chaos doesn't have a real goal and will exist as long as hate, rage, lust and all the other voices exist. So the only way Tau can save Humanity from Chaos is by brainwashing every single human (and Eldar and probably a bunch of other races) into a mindless drone. That will starve the Chaos gods and bring everlasting, drooling peace.
I think your overstating it a little there seems to be a direct correlation between psychic potential and the injudicious use of such potential and even then there seems to be exceptions such as the Orks where there has never really been any indication that their warlike activities buff khorne.
Except maybe the Khornate demonworld where that group of orks fights bersekers all day, gets slain to the last, then resurrected the next day to do it all over again. Besides, Orks don't reinforce Khorne (to our knowledge) because their brutality and cunning go to different deities: Gork and Mork. It's why Space marines fighting Khornate demons doesn't end in an auto win for the demons. The emotions and hatred and warfare brought to bear against their enemy doesn't fuel the demons there, because all of their focus (through prayer and meditation) is on the Emperor. It is only when the mind does not have focus, when things are done on random (chaotic) impulse that things begin to suffer. This has always seemed to be the best reason for keeping the Ecchlesiarchy around. Despite its opposition to the Imperial Truth, dogma keeps even the dumbest human satisfied with rote prayer and focus, while having faith in "humanity" as a whole is a bit of a harder concept to grasp.
The more realistic turn for the Astartes is that, in the wake of the 13th Black Crusade, documents are uncovered documenting the Imperial Truth. Marines begin questioning Dogma, and put their faith back in the primarchs and the goals of the Emperor, venerating rather than worshipping. Certain chapters break away completely from the Highlords, helping Humanity where they can rather than following orders. Other chapters see the highlords as a necessary evil: by following their lead, the chapters and guard can be coordinated to defend the Imperium. And others will continue to follow Dogma ... well... religiously.
As for the Tau's "immunity" to chaos, it's really much as has been said before. By having one tight, regulated faith structure, errant thoughts do not creep in, giving chaos few footholds. Also, without psykers they have barely any presence in the warp, meaning they are beneath most demons' notice. (Is that something delicious to corrupt? Oh wait. Naw, that's just a squirrel.) They probably could TRY, but yeesh. Tau emotions are so bland and tasteless. Why bother with all these trillions of delicious humans around? And O M G! Have you tasted the Eldar? Nom nom.
Honestly one of the best routes of corruption for the Tau would be through the least likely: Slaanesh. The Emperor's Children fell to the Prince of Pleasure not therough their love of raping those they defeated nor of their use of "combat enhancers" (read: PCP) but therough their desire for PERFECTION. They fought harder and harder to be perfect in every action, every drop, every shot, every swing of the chainsword. When Fulgrim found that sword... :shakes head:
There are so many logical ways to advance the storyline in 40k into January 1 41000. Ways, in fact, that don't honestly say much of ANYTHING. Space marines splintered off a little. Eldar lost a craftworld and discovered another one. The Tyranids have advanced a little further into space. And oh, hey. Something happened to the Golden throne (one way or another). You can advance the plot in small ways that have HUGE repercussions, and then you never say what those repercussions are. You just let the player figure it out in his or her own games of 40k.
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
The more I think about the fluff, the more excited I get for some reason, they should do a video with epic music of course. It should be various chapters discussing this new Galactic discovery but when the ultrmarines mention the tau need protecting, some chapters get angry and storm out which I know would at least be the templars and dark angels. Maybe even a few fights would be cool. Then showing some chapters leaving the planet (which the meeting was being held on), with narration about the imperium fracturing. Here I go again, day dreaming. 
4875
Post by: His Master's Voice
Kroothawk wrote:
1.) Tau being immune to Chaos: No incident of corrupted tau in the Codex.
That's irrelevant. No examples of corrupted Necrons won't make them saviors of humanity. In fact, in the previous iteration of Necron fluff, they had this idea of sealing off the Empyran from the real world, because the C'tan didn't like demons mucking about on their lawn. Now that would classify as saving everyone from Chaos.
Kroothawk wrote:2.) Mankind and the universe are in a state of global Montau, where people out of their mind are slaying each other for no reason at all. Hate and fear rule. This is worse than even today's earth. Now imagine that charismatic leaders preach peace, love and understanding in Dalai Lama style. Or control their emotions like Vulkans did. This could definitely weaken Chaos and break up the stalemate. Having a big mobile army immune to Chaos corruption helps of course, and having a new ally instead of another enemy as well.
The current fluff almost directly states the Tau brainwash themselves and pretty much any subordinate race they come in contact with. If the Imperium is dogmatic, the Tau are a cross between Hitlerjugend and Soviet re-educational camps.
As I said, everlasting peace, drooling slightly from the corner of it's mouth.
And yeah, I don't like Tau.
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
"Yeah, I'm not too sure ab-Wait a second. My Word Bearers could take Bloodcrushers now."
My want just increased exponentially.
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
Cerebrium wrote:"Yeah, I'm not too sure ab-Wait a second. My Word Bearers could take Bloodcrushers now."
My want just increased exponentially.
Yep, no more generic deamons, say hello to the full range
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Cerebrium wrote:"Yeah, I'm not too sure ab-Wait a second. My Word Bearers could take Bloodcrushers now."
My want just increased exponentially.
Unless it's like the Allies system in Fantasy. In which case no, you don't get to cherry pick units from other codices to add to your army. Considering the rumor states that 40k will be using various fantasy mechanics, this seems much more likely and sensible. There's even an analogue between the Skaven and Tyranids in that no one wants to ally with them.
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Post by: Pacific
Jadenim wrote:
With regards to the fluff changes, I really think this depends on how it's done; if it's the entire Astartes organisation doing a 180 and setting up a cordon around the Tau empire then that will be terrible.
However if it were more of someone finding an ancient prophesy from the Emperor that speaks of the rise of a new race that will be the salvation of mankind from Chaos then that could prove interesting, as it would be open to interpretation. It could lead to all sorts of interesting fractures and friction in the imperium, for example:
)
But the problem is, the entire point of the 40k universe is that even if such a message was received, it would be completely ignored!
The 40k universe is run by dogma and reverence for traditions that spread back over 10,000 years. Look at our own history - when 'new' prophets or religious philosophers came up with some new idea about how things should be, the results were almost always bloody. Not because they were just challenging the faith of those traditionalists, but also the structures of power that were built around them. The Imperium in the 40k universe takes that idea to a ridiculous extreme - it doesn't matter if the 'proof' was a DNA-stamped approval letter from the Emperor, the heads of the Imperial government/church would never tolerate it's existence, not least because of the challenge it would represent to their rule. The dogma extends to humanities inherent and divine superiority over the alien, making it even less likely to be heeded - to borrow a joke from Red Dwarf, it would be like the discovery of a lost first page of the Bible saying, "All of the events in this book are fictitious, any characters or events similar to real people..... " etc. What do you think the Catholic church would do in such a situation?
So, for me, this is if true would be a thousand times worse than the BA and Necrons 'teaming up'. That was just a badly written paragraph taken out of context, this would be a reversal of the most fundamental concepts of the 40k universe, which have been built up over twenty years of rule books, codecies and Black Library material.
It would also involve taking the clock forward, which again would mean a first in the history of the descriptions of the game universe where it has always been a quarter to midnight.
So in short if this does come to pass.. then the time of ending really has arrived, and we can kiss goodbye to the game universe that so many of us have enjoyed for so long.
5729
Post by: InquisitorMack
After reading the pair of Imperial Armour books about Huron & the Badab rebellion, I would love to learn more about how Space Marine Chapters break off & rebel. Those books described the various binding treatises & oaths between Space Marine chapters which forced them to declare all out war against each other... all because of Imperial bureaucracy & incompetence.
27823
Post by: Stanley Rubric
Pacific wrote:
The 40k universe is run by dogma and reverence for traditions that spread back over 10,000 years. Look at our own history - when 'new' prophets or religious philosophers came up with some new idea about how things should be, the results were almost always bloody. Not because they were just challenging the faith of those traditionalists, but also the structures of power that were built around them. The Imperium in the 40k universe takes that idea to a ridiculous extreme - it doesn't matter if the 'proof' was a DNA-stamped approval letter from the Emperor, the heads of the Imperial government/church would never tolerate it's existence, not least because of the challenge it would represent to their rule. The dogma extends to humanities inherent and divine superiority over the alien, making it even less likely to be heeded - to borrow a joke from Red Dwarf, it would be like the discovery of a lost first page of the Bible saying, "All of the events in this book are fictitious, any characters or events similar to real people..... " etc. What do you think the Catholic church would do in such a situation?
But you're making the assumption that it's the high lords of terra who find that letter from the emperor. Everything said seems to dictate that it's an astartes chapter (Ultramarines) who do. In that case who gives a gak what the high lords say, as they're weaker than the astartes. There is no modern equivalent to this as we might have the Church here IRL but no superhuman enforcers of their creed with a direct bloodline to God himself. Allies will work like Fantasy, the fluff here is out of context and being leaked in a manner to encourage flame wars. I'm sure the final end result will be much better than Blood Angels and Necrons are BFF's, or all marines must babysit the Tau.
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Post by: carlos13th
While I may not like the specifics I do really hope the universe gets pushed a little bit forward even if only twenty years or so, let a few new things happen possibly have a few new characters rise up that kind of thing.
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
I don't believe any of these rumours for a second.
Although saying that, if they where true, I am so having a Scythes of the Emperor/Tau Hunter Cadre themed anti Tyranid force. 
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Post by: Kroothawk
His Master's Voice wrote:The current fluff almost directly states the Tau brainwash themselves and pretty much any subordinate race they come in contact with. If the Imperium is dogmatic, the Tau are a cross between Hitlerjugend and Soviet re-educational camps.
Because Hitler and Stalin were famous for ending bloodshed and teaching peace and the value of life, riiight!
Let's just say you believe unbacked posts by Tau-haters more than the explicitely expressed intention by the designers of the Tau race.
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
Well, I certainly welcome any change/improvement to Tau fluff. Right now, they are the Dodo birds of the galaxy. Still, taking the Imperium's xenophobia away seems--well, pretty strange.
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Post by: MIKEtheMERCILESS
Aaargh, I.. I don't know. At first I was spitting acid about random charge measurements... But combined with being able to pre-measure, it may be a useful mechanic to add incertainty to the action.
As for Allies, can someone explain how this works in Fantasy? This is my biggest fear - every army has it's strengths and weaknesses which gives it their character... All I can picture is everyone needing to mix armies to be competitive and get the best units from their respective codices; to the point where you are handicapping your self if you don't field a galactic "All-Star" team...
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Post by: Motograter
Chaos- the new squats. If any of the fluff changes are real
21358
Post by: Dysartes
Motograter wrote:Chaos- the new squats.
We can only hope - there's a growing galactic shortage of spiky bitz...
1478
Post by: warboss
The only way this schlock could be less believeable is if it continued the rofl-stomping antics of Draigo tagging his initials on the actual god Khorne combined with the Imperium finding a way to allow Space Marine geneseed implantation into Sisters of Battle. Only then would it include all of the most common fluff troll thread topics instead of just a simple majority of them.
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Post by: Absolutionis
AgeOfEgos wrote:Still, taking the Imperium's xenophobia away seems--well, pretty strange.
Tau are so immensely sub-human that they're little more than animals to Space Marines. The same way that the Imperial Guard use horses and the Grey Knights use tech-monkeys, the Space Marin...
...wait...
...this rumor is from Blood of Kittens?
...Why are we still discussing it?
23
Post by: djones520
MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:Aaargh, I.. I don't know. At first I was spitting acid about random charge measurements... But combined with being able to pre-measure, it may be a useful mechanic to add incertainty to the action.
As for Allies, can someone explain how this works in Fantasy? This is my biggest fear - every army has it's strengths and weaknesses which gives it their character... All I can picture is everyone needing to mix armies to be competitive and get the best units from their respective codices; to the point where you are handicapping your self if you don't field a galactic "All-Star" team...
In fantasy you can't take multiple armies in one. When you have games that have more then 1 player per side, there are rules that state how well the armies work together. Three differant levels, from trusted to hated. Dependant on the level, you could get more bonuses from the alliance, or more draw backs.
It sounds like this would be more like 2nd Editions Allies rules. No more then 25% of your army could be from a certain army book, with certain units from that army.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
His Master's Voice wrote:
That's irrelevant. No examples of corrupted Necrons won't make them saviors of humanity. In fact, in the previous iteration of Necron fluff, they had this idea of sealing off the Empyran from the real world, because the C'tan didn't like demons mucking about on their lawn. Now that would classify as saving everyone from Chaos.
I might point out that we suddenly had them allying with the Imperium too.
His Master's Voice wrote:
The current fluff almost directly states the Tau brainwash themselves and pretty much any subordinate race they come in contact with. If the Imperium is dogmatic, the Tau are a cross between Hitlerjugend and Soviet re-educational camps.
Source? Remembering that the non-canon ending to the Dawn of War games is just that: Non-canon. For your argument, they might as well be (un)fanfiction.
Absolutionis wrote:Tau are so immensely sub-human that they're little more than animals to Space Marines. The same way that the Imperial Guard use horses and the Grey Knights use tech-monkeys, the Space Marin...
...wait...
...this rumor is from Blood of Kittens?
...Why are we still discussing it?
I can feel the hate... flowing...
And, sadly, BoK has been on the ball on occasion. ATM most people are praying they're wrong. I, however, am praying they're right. And it would fit in the trend. The last several codices have contained Epic trolls of the fandom, why not make 6th an entire troll edition?
warboss wrote:The only way this schlock could be less believeable is if it continued the rofl-stomping antics of Draigo tagging his initials on the actual god Khorne combined with the Imperium finding a way to allow Space Marine geneseed implantation into Sisters of Battle. Only then would it include all of the most common fluff troll thread topics instead of just a simple majority of them.
And your disbelief in GW's stupidity comes from? Particularly given your avatar is a facepalm about Finecast...
Besides, I don't know if you've noticed, but some of the writers seem to go to 4chan just to gather up the most rage inducing ideas they can, and use them as ideas for the next book.
And, besides, I already made the FSM joke a few pages back. If it's not in there, I look forward to it being the first codex of 6th.
19809
Post by: Trevak Dal
OK, I know nothing about fantasy, except that their models come on square bases and the units move in 'block' formation, "it's more complicated than 40k" and the Lizardmen are the model range that got me into the hobby (still my favorite model range-I just don't have an interest in playing fantasy).
What does "Random Charge Length" mean? Instead of assaulting 6 inches (mostly), it becomes d6 inches like running?
Wouldn't everyone just switch to Greyknights/build their armies exclusively for shooting in that case? And how exactly would that effect units with an 'assault move' like tau Crisis suits, and Eldar Jetbikes?
Also...if it's "that bad" couldn't we, as a community just do a little White-Out Vetoing of the rules that suck/don't make sense? I know as "nerds" we are naturally the most exclusive group on the planet-and everybody's got their little Set or Flag Waving group, but there's enough big communities and blogs that if the gak ain't right, that some sort of compromise could come forth...
4875
Post by: His Master's Voice
Stanley Rubric wrote:
In that case who gives a gak what the high lords say, as they're weaker than the astartes. There is no modern equivalent to this as we might have the Church here IRL but no superhuman enforcers of their creed with a direct bloodline to God himself.
A) high Lords of Terra command billions of troops. They're hardly weaker than the combined forces of all SM chapters.
B) We're talking about Adeptus Astarates. You know, those guys that recite litanies of hate before battle and follow the human supremacy ideology laid out by this guy sitting on a golden toilet on Earth.
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Post by: Jadenim
Pacific wrote:
The 40k universe is run by dogma and reverence for traditions that spread back over 10,000 years. Look at our own history - when 'new' prophets or religious philosophers came up with some new idea about how things should be, the results were almost always bloody. Not because they were just challenging the faith of those traditionalists, but also the structures of power that were built around them. The Imperium in the 40k universe takes that idea to a ridiculous extreme - it doesn't matter if the 'proof' was a DNA-stamped approval letter from the Emperor, the heads of the Imperial government/church would never tolerate it's existence, not least because of the challenge it would represent to their rule. The dogma extends to humanities inherent and divine superiority over the alien, making it even less likely to be heeded - to borrow a joke from Red Dwarf, it would be like the discovery of a lost first page of the Bible saying, "All of the events in this book are fictitious, any characters or events similar to real people..... " etc. What do you think the Catholic church would do in such a situation?
That was kind of my point; some of the Imperium (the more "devout" SM chapters for instance) would take any order from the Emperor, if it could be verified, whereas the factions more invested in the current power structures (like the High Lords) would denounce it as heresy. This could lead to all sorts of interesting storylines as humanity teeters on the brink of another Age of Strife. Of course the whole thing could be totally ballsed up by one over-enthusiastic codex writer, so I really don't want it to happen. I was just trying to put a little bit more of a positive light on this frankly quite unlikely rumour, rather than assuming it was a sign of the end of times...
21196
Post by: agnosto
For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff? At least an ideological schism would make sense.
4875
Post by: His Master's Voice
Kroothawk wrote:His Master's Voice wrote:The current fluff almost directly states the Tau brainwash themselves and pretty much any subordinate race they come in contact with. If the Imperium is dogmatic, the Tau are a cross between Hitlerjugend and Soviet re-educational camps.
Because Hitler and Stalin were famous for ending bloodshed and teaching peace and the value of life, riiight!
Right, because if you decline following the Greater Good, the Tau leave you be.
No, wait, you get a railgun round to the face.
And both Hitler ans Stalin were working towards a world where all people would live in peace and harmony. Provided they followed the same ideology or belonged to the correct race of course, but that's a minor detail in the grand scheme of things. What's a couple billion dead people when you get a perfect society, right?
Kroothawk wrote:Let's just say you believe unbacked posts by Tau-haters more than the explicitely expressed intention by the designers of the Tau race.
So what you're saying is that someone involved in the design of Tau said they're peace loving hippies? Seriously? Can I get a quote on that, because as much I thought it impossible, I might dislike Tau even more now.
And that's still not addressing my initial point of Tau not making sense as the saviors of humanity.
34906
Post by: Pacific
agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff? At least an ideological schism would make sense.
Right, or the Nid - IG - Chaos marine (who have no arms) combo fighting alongside each other, which seem to be a sizeable percentage of most games played?
In the same way that a lot of people said sarcastically, "Oh, we never thought of dumping hundreds of minis on the table in one big battle before" when Apocalypse was released, an allies rule probably wouldn't make a huge difference to the majority of casual games. Especially for younger players, who (not unreasonably) can't keep their concentration on the 2-3 years it will probably take to make up a reasonably sized army, for the most part they will have been playing with a mix of stuff anyway.
37755
Post by: Harriticus
Lol, what horrific fluff.
I can see a lot of Ward with this. Making the Space Marines even more perfect. Now the Ultramarines and the Tau will spread the greater good!
If the Tau need an ally, make it the Eldar.
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Post by: AlexHolker
agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff? At least an ideological schism would make sense.
I don't. There is no justification that would also allow for a Special Character fighting him- or herself, and the attempt would only weaken the fluff. Better to just write such battles off as uncanon entertainment, nothing more.
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Post by: aka_mythos
His Master's Voice wrote:Stanley Rubric wrote:
In that case who gives a gak what the high lords say, as they're weaker than the astartes. There is no modern equivalent to this as we might have the Church here IRL but no superhuman enforcers of their creed with a direct bloodline to God himself.
A) high Lords of Terra command billions of troops. They're hardly weaker than the combined forces of all SM chapters.
B) We're talking about Adeptus Astarates. You know, those guys that recite litanies of hate before battle and follow the human supremacy ideology laid out by this guy sitting on a golden toilet on Earth.
Everyone making the argument on the limitations of the Adeptus Astartes ignore the fact that as angels of the Emperor they would have more sway in convincing IG and other imperial forces to join them than even Chaos has on top of that many chapters have planetary Governments under their direct command guaranteeing a level of support in a protracted campaign beyond that of just their chapter. That's before any sense of loyalty or debt worlds may feel for a chapter that came to their rescue. If chaos can do it easily enough what can those truly loyal to the Emperor accomplish.
I don't tend to believe these rumors but Ive heard crazier. If its true it's sounds like GW is simply trying to rewrite fluff to cluster different factions into larger more directly opposed groups, in that way groups like the Tau and Necron who are drawn into these global campaigns in convoluted ways can contribute and participate in more meaningful ways. It's just like how Blizzard with WoW rewrote their settings geopolitics to create the two larger player factions.
37505
Post by: Nagashek
His Master's Voice wrote:Kroothawk wrote:His Master's Voice wrote:The current fluff almost directly states the Tau brainwash themselves and pretty much any subordinate race they come in contact with. If the Imperium is dogmatic, the Tau are a cross between Hitlerjugend and Soviet re-educational camps.
Because Hitler and Stalin were famous for ending bloodshed and teaching peace and the value of life, riiight!
Right, because if you decline following the Greater Good, the Tau leave you be.
No, wait, you get a railgun round to the face.
And both Hitler ans Stalin were working towards a world where all people would live in peace and harmony. Provided they followed the same ideology or belonged to the correct race of course, but that's a minor detail in the grand scheme of things. What's a couple billion dead people when you get a perfect society, right?
Kroothawk wrote:Let's just say you believe unbacked posts by Tau-haters more than the explicitely expressed intention by the designers of the Tau race.
So what you're saying is that someone involved in the design of Tau said they're peace loving hippies? Seriously? Can I get a quote on that, because as much I thought it impossible, I might dislike Tau even more now.
And that's still not addressing my initial point of Tau not making sense as the saviors of humanity.
So... in your view there are only two options? Peace loving Hippies and Mindcontrolling megalomaniacs? Because that's how you are framing your response.
The Tau have an entire 5th of their race devoted to negotiation. If they encountered a human world and told them "This world is ours now, you are subject members of the Tau Empire, pay us taxes," and the humans said no thanks, the Water Caste would go in to resolve the matter. If the humans want to stay, they can fight or join the Empire. If they wanted to leave, the option would be given, and the Tau would just let them go. If they wanted to fight, the Tau would do so until it was no longer necessary. The Tau are too pragmatic to slaughter life forms needlessly: such actions do not serve the Greater Good. It is more established in the fluff that waves of Water Caste Negotiators go to inhabited worlds to broker deals than Firewarriors conquer those planets. It just doesn't happen. It is more useful to negotiate than to waste resources in a battle. The Imperium, however, is frustratingly uncompromising in this regard...
If you think the Tau Empire is a "Join or DIE!" kind of situation, then you are ignoring the fact that there are many member races in the Empire, the most prominant of which, besides the Tau, are the Kroot. A race who only has a portion of its members fighting for the Tau. The rest are doing other things, even serving other races. There is no even IMPLIED piece of fluff stating that the Kroot are slaves or under duress. Go read up on the race, they are far more interesting than you are giving them credit for.
Any fluff progression of this type would be moronic. I'd rather they advance the fluff by removing the race than turn them into the Dick Graysons of 40k.
6646
Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
See now I want to do a Batman Space Marine, and a Tau Firewarrior in Robin colours. 
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Kroothawk wrote:His Master's Voice wrote:The funny thing is, Tau as the saviors of the galaxy do not make any sense under the current Chaos fluff. None whatsoever. Chaos is a threat because sentient creatures make it a threat. It's not like Nids that come from somewhere, go somewhere and can be stopped inbetween. Chaos doesn't have a real goal and will exist as long as hate, rage, lust and all the other voices exist. So the only way Tau can save Humanity from Chaos is by brainwashing every single human (and Eldar and probably a bunch of other races) into a mindless drone. That will starve the Chaos gods and bring everlasting, drooling peace.
Actually it does and is strongly hinted at in current fluff.
1.) Tau being immune to Chaos: No incident of corrupted tau in the Codex. The old Daemonhunter Codex lists several scenarios why they should fight other races instead of just daemons: The Tau entry doesn't list corrupted Tau. In the novel Firewarrior, a daemon finds "one in a million" of Firewarriors where he sees a chance of corruption (he doesn't even try the ethereal). In the end he utterly falis even with this exceptionally emotional Firewarrior. The (controversial book) Xenology strongly hints that Eldar created the first Ethereal to create a race immune to Chaos. And having a low presence in the warp, no psykers and no idea of what warp and Chaos is, adds to the picture.
2.) Mankind and the universe are in a state of global Montau, where people out of their mind are slaying each other for no reason at all. Hate and fear rule. This is worse than even today's earth. Now imagine that charismatic leaders preach peace, love and understanding in Dalai Lama style. Or control their emotions like Vulkans did. This could definitely weaken Chaos and break up the stalemate. Having a big mobile army immune to Chaos corruption helps of course, and having a new ally instead of another enemy as well.
Not saying that the BoK rumours are correct of course. Just discussing the possible consequences.
Sorry, youre missing the consequences. Which are, rewritten Tau. You may not even see any similarities after they are redone....
Because, to insert the Tau as something the Emperor wrote about, means to alter their history ( create them before the GC ) as he doesn't seem to be the prophetic one who can foresee the future if the current background is still partially valid then. Plus those who can't identify a threat, like necrons and DE, shall contribute what exactly against chaos, a threat so varied it isn't just a source of screaming hordes of cultists coming at you? Really? The race known to attack whoever is busy fighting off nids provides what exactly against a galaxy wide threat?
More backstabbing?
The so called picture is one of a race, unknowing of most of the threats they haven't met and dismissing any warning older inhabitants of this galaxy may give them. A low presence may keep the demon uninterested, it won't stop the mortal minions of chaos. No psykers is nice until you find out you can't stop the psykers at all, you can't close that rift where nigh limitless hordes stream out of, etc etc.
The species aren't in a state of Mon'tau, as mon'tau only exists in the Tau's view of the world. Humans aren't going to go extinct by a little civil war, they tend to survive it. Humans don't need someone to pacify them, like those weak Tau do. Humans can have emotions without restricting their thoughts to a "greater good" just to keep their hands off of their neighbours throat. Sorry the ones to survive without help aren't the Tau. Now, sure this failure of fluff could keep the Tau alive by Ultramarines are BFF now plot armor.....
Plus there is no stalemate vs chaos. Chaos lacks the attention span to achieve anything that lasts. Chaos is the usual villian faction, always scheming but never winning. Where is your stalemate now?
And finally, the Tau are not big, not mobile, and surely the least likely challenger of chaos.
Pacific wrote:
So, for me, this is if true would be a thousand times worse than the BA and Necrons 'teaming up'. That was just a badly written paragraph taken out of context, this would be a reversal of the most fundamental concepts of the 40k universe, which have been built up over twenty years of rule books, codecies and Black Library material.
It would also involve taking the clock forward, which again would mean a first in the history of the descriptions of the game universe where it has always been a quarter to midnight.
So in short if this does come to pass.. then the time of ending really has arrived, and we can kiss goodbye to the game universe that so many of us have enjoyed for so long.
Exactly.
The moment this becomes real is the real end times..
Imagine the rulebook sold and the fluff changed......... but you have to have a codex too and there it stays as is....
The 180°turn pretty much in black and white. Methinks some here are unaware how many only stick with 40k because of the background.
Go for change for the sake of change and there won't be enough beer to make this bearable.
Kroothawk wrote:
Because Hitler and Stalin were famous for ending bloodshed and teaching peace and the value of life, riiight!
Let's just say you believe unbacked posts by Tau-haters more than the explicitely expressed intention by the designers of the Tau race.
Can we keep those 2 out of this?
And lets assume your backup isn't outdated and most likely replaced by something else as the subject of this thread doesn't sound like there would be any intend to stick with the intent of any race from the time when it was designed. Why should your holy cow be different?
agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff? At least an ideological schism would make sense.
Training, accusations of heresy, theft of chapter relics, making fun of our primarch, etc etc.... pretty easy
His Master's Voice wrote:
So what you're saying is that someone involved in the design of Tau said they're peace loving hippies? Seriously? Can I get a quote on that, because as much I thought it impossible, I might dislike Tau even more now.
And that's still not addressing my initial point of Tau not making sense as the saviors of humanity.
You never get a quote saying that.....
As the designers never said so and GW already moved on to darken the Tau.
I think the focus in 6th could move to chaos, but if this turns out to become LotR in space and our shades of grey are replaced by black & white and the factions have to suffer retcons to fit into such fantasy like scheme, then yes its time to let it end.
5386
Post by: sennacherib
Let us hope that the fluff changes are fiction. The Necron codex was already such an abomination of fluff that further leangths taken with additional fluff abominations would be, well.... weak sauce. Some of the suggested rules changes sound good though i am not so sure i would agree with allies because, as other posters have suggested, each army "should" have a weak point.
4875
Post by: His Master's Voice
Nagashek wrote:So... in your view there are only two options? Peace loving Hippies and Mindcontrolling megalomaniacs? Because that's how you are framing your response.
Well, yeah. I mean, 40k is a setting of extremes, there's really little place for nuanced socio political disputes there. And when given the choice between hippies and mind controlling megalomaniacs, I'll go with the megalomaniacs.
Nagashek wrote:Go read up on the race, they are far more interesting than you are giving them credit for.
The thing is, darker Tau are better Tau, at least for me. It's enough that their general aesthetic doesn't fit 40k, they should at least follow the spirit of the setting in fluff.
And really, don't you feel that the way you're portraying the Tau makes them, gasp, the good guys? Good guys in 40k? Gray good guys? Space Wolves already exist, that niche is filled to the brim with beards and wolf fur.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
ShumaGorath wrote:I don't see a problem with random charge distance. We already have random movement distance for any unit moving through cover or running.
Which is awful. Random charge distances wouldn't even have the rough logic of "that forest is slowing them down".
You just need to look things from the point of view of deciding a mechanism to achieve a desirable game result and rationalising it.
For instance, just as the unit gets up to charge, the defending unit lays down a heavy pattern of defensive fire, causing them to freeze. Or they get the order too late.
24514
Post by: Unholy_Martyr
Let me know if anyone wants a hard copy of the "pancake"rules let me know!
53116
Post by: helium42
Kroothawk wrote:His Master's Voice wrote:The current fluff almost directly states the Tau brainwash themselves and pretty much any subordinate race they come in contact with. If the Imperium is dogmatic, the Tau are a cross between Hitlerjugend and Soviet re-educational camps.
Because Hitler and Stalin were famous for ending bloodshed and teaching peace and the value of life, riiight!
Let's just say you believe unbacked posts by Tau-haters more than the explicitely expressed intention by the designers of the Tau race.
The Tau can talk about valuing life until they are blue in the face (no pun intended) but they still bully weaker races into submission (like Hitler did to Austria), and they still choose to war against any other races that oppose their 'vision' of a utopian galaxy. Sounds a lot like Hitler to me.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
His Master's Voice wrote:Right, because if you decline following the Greater Good, the Tau leave you be.
No, wait, you get a railgun round to the face.
Here the answer taken from the Tau entry of the BFG rulebook:
BFG rulebook wrote:There are other races still who do not wish to fully submit to the Empire, but who likewise have no wish for war with the Tau and will instead strike up armistices or treaties of neutrality, opening up lucrative new markets or providing new allegiances for mutual protection.
His Master's Voice wrote:So what you're saying is that someone involved in the design of Tau said they're peace loving hippies? Seriously? Can I get a quote on that, because as much I thought it impossible, I might dislike Tau even more now.
Here the quote:
Original Tau designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.
His Master's Voice wrote:And really, don't you feel that the way you're portraying the Tau makes them, gasp, the good guys? Good guys in 40k? Gray good guys? Space Wolves already exist, that niche is filled to the brim with beards and wolf fur.
And the niche of the bad guys in 40k is still vacant?
53740
Post by: ZebioLizard2
The thing is, darker Tau are better Tau, at least for me. It's enough that their general aesthetic doesn't fit 40k, they should at least follow the spirit of the setting in fluff.
I love when people bring this up! I mean back in the days when the emporer was just asleep, the fluff wasn't so grim-dark (except the space marines, who were psychotic killers) and with all the various fluff changes to make everything more grim-dark.
The spirit of the setting has changed far, far more than people seem to know.
Good guys in 40k? Gray good guys? Space Wolves already exist, that niche is filled to the brim with beards and wolf fur.
Hahahaha, space wolves being good... That is a good one! They are at best, neutral, considering they are the MAIN reason an entire faction went chaos for their tactics.
4875
Post by: His Master's Voice
Kroothawk wrote:And the niche of the bad guys in 40k is still vacant?
You wouldn't squeeze a pin in there.
And yeah, that quote is why Tau always felt wrong to me. It's like putting a mild mannered sales representative in a facility for the criminally insane. Amusing for a while, but shouldn't last long.
ZebioLizard2 wrote:The spirit of the setting has changed far, far more than people seem to know.
For the better, I'd say.
ZebioLizard2 wrote:Hahahaha, space wolves being good... That is a good one! They are at best, neutral, considering they are the MAIN reason an entire faction went chaos for their tactics.
They sing a lot, laugh, drink till they get stoned and keep pets (the size of trucks but whatever...). That's as close to being good as you could and should get in 40k.
Aaaaaaand I was kinda joking there anyway...
52617
Post by: Lockark
Making the Tau into the Anti-Chaos Messiahs of the universe just seems strange and borderline Marry sue to me.
I like the current idea of the Tau being the young and naive "youngsters" in the galaxy. The fact that Tau don't know about Chaos and think that Chaos is a myth that the older races of the galaxy use to try and misdirect them and "keep them down". They don't know how physic powers work, but see them as nothing more then a strange phenomenon that can eventually be explained. I remember reading fluff that the Tau don't even really get mutation from Chaos in origin. They have fought the Imperial Guard before and have seen 1st hand the Abhumans and the huge verity that humanity comes in. For all the Tau realy know, mutations are just another expression of the diversity of humanity.
In a way the Tau are interesting when you think of it, because to them humanity and it's struggle ageist Chaos is the "strange and alien thing". I know people who don't really "get" the 40k universe and have a hard time wrapping their head around the whole concept of how humanitiy could be in it's current state in the 40k universe. (They like their stories of humans over coming their weakness, not so much the story of the worst that humanitiy can sink to.)
For them the Tau are more human and relateable then the humans of the setting. lol
If they are keeping that aspect of the tau fluff, but then turn them into the "Anti-Chaos Messiahs" not only cheapens the concept of Chaos, but even the fluff of the Tau.
Personally I'm not a huge fan of the Tau, but I get why they are their and why people like their fluff. They do have a place in the setting, and they fill it in a very creative way. As for the Tau being "incorruptible"? I always understood it more as the fact that it's not worth a demon's time to corrupt a tau. If you have the choice between a Turkey Dinner (Human soul) or a Handful of Salt Water Crackers (Tau Soul) witch would you choose?
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
If this is true, I'll just relish stomping bluefolk even more!
25703
Post by: juraigamer
Such massive bollocks, all this actually is: Create ad revenue.
5301
Post by: Milisim
There about 7 pages of people just whining about the FLUFF changing etc..........
Last time I checked this is a Table Top game where you roll dice and remove little plastic models.
GW NEED to do something to make the ACTUAL game of 40k FUN. After all games are supposed to be FUN. In its current state 40K is a massive grinding waste of space. The game itself is boring and unbalanced. WHFB is a MUCH more FUN game to play. Wether you liked 7th Edition or not, 8E is still miles more FUN to play than 5E 40k.
GW Need to inject a big dose of FUN into its main product.
37505
Post by: Nagashek
And there we are. Godwin's Law, Draigo's Law, and the "Little Armymen Corrolary." We're done here.
2808
Post by: Task and Purpose
Concur...this sounds like nothing more than possible white dwarf content. There is no mention of game mechanics.
Lol for those buying the fluffless battle of marines vs. X? Box you won't even get the fluff in the abridged book. So big deal. Keep reading black library stuff for fluff not the 1/2 page blurbs of off the cuff "new" fluff which encourages players to "have fun" and play however you like.
I would be concerned about the throwback to 2nd edition if that meant something. Unless modifiers are brought back there is nothing really of value in that ruleset which harmonizes/synergises with 5th. God knows I'd like to get rid of complex units and wound allocation. Just bores me bit at this point is a necessary evil.
22480
Post by: Dravenguild
Milisim wrote:There about 7 pages of people just whining about the FLUFF changing etc..........
Last time I checked this is a Table Top game where you roll dice and remove little plastic models.
GW NEED to do something to make the ACTUAL game of 40k FUN. After all games are supposed to be FUN. In its current state 40K is a massive grinding waste of space. The game itself is boring and unbalanced. WHFB is a MUCH more FUN game to play. Wether you liked 7th Edition or not, 8E is still miles more FUN to play than 5E 40k.
GW Need to inject a big dose of FUN into its main product.
Then go play something else, I like my Imperium totalitarian, xenophobic and superstitious. Not "side with the aliens let's let the design team drop acid and disregard the core elements of the game's universe".
I still find the rules of 40k plenty fun, but the universe changing like this drek indicates is a massive disappointment. A good narrative is the reason I feel in my opinion that so many play 40k. This is why I play.
57140
Post by: Je suis2 au hazard
The tau thing is heresy.
I am terrified about moving towards 2nd edition.
I hope allies don't come back.
Those are my thoughts.
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
What's REALLY hilarious is that the people that buy the minis and play the game seem to be, by and large, NOT the ones whining in this thread. It's the people who have not or will not (supposedly) buy anything further from GW. So, why should GW give a damn what you guys think?
Hell, this whole thing nerfs the gak out of one of my favorite builds and I'm all for it. (for various reasons).
17816
Post by: coyotius
Isn't all this fluff nonsense just lifted from the "Dornian Heresy" over at B&C?
The last thing I want as a Tau player is any connection with SM...which is why I play them.
22480
Post by: Dravenguild
GW doesn't answer to anyone not a majority shareholder so you are correct in your assumption.
I respect your opinion, though I do play 40k, I've been playing for 14 years now. I own two 4,000 point armies and before that I owned several 2,000 point armies.
I love the game, I'm not adverse to change but of what I can attest to is changes that rewrite the core elements of what made the setting interesting. Necrons were the largest example of this, but after seeing what I have here it would appear this is just the natural progression of things.
I don't consider myself entitled to an explanation, I'm sure the design team aren't bad guys by any means but I'm sure they've been given an ultimatum. It just sucks, 40k used to be darkly humorous, a parable to british sentiments under margaret thatcher with science fiction.
Now, it's so... Hard to decribe, almost scrubbed down for children.
As far as rules go, I feel that in this is merely an attempt to address veterans like ourselves and coax us back in through nostalgia goggles. I do not welcome a step backwards to second edition. I was lucky enough to not be a part of that era (playing) but witnessing the amount of silliness comprising that edition I would rather see an innovation on the 5th ed. ruleset.
23979
Post by: frozenwastes
Dravenguild wrote:It just sucks, 40k used to be darkly humorous, a parable to british sentiments under margaret thatcher with science fiction.
Now, it's so... Hard to decribe, almost scrubbed down for children.
Pretty much nailed it.
I find Fantasy Flight's 40k RPG products to be a lot more like the old school vibe than GW's.
53740
Post by: ZebioLizard2
Then go play something else, I like my Imperium totalitarian, xenophobic and superstitious. Not "side with the aliens let's let the design team drop acid and disregard the core elements of the game's universe".
Play black templar than, because team ups with xeno's happens all the time between tau, eldar, and hell, even orks! (As mercs)
There are very few factions that completely Eschew Xeno's contact.
54671
Post by: Crazyterran
This 'rumour' sounds like more garbage then most of the rumours i've seen.
And it seems from this thread that this sentiment is shared. >.>
49069
Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
>tau-marines
BOLLOCKS.
22480
Post by: Dravenguild
ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Then go play something else, I like my Imperium totalitarian, xenophobic and superstitious. Not "side with the aliens let's let the design team drop acid and disregard the core elements of the game's universe".
Play black templar than, because team ups with xeno's happens all the time between tau, eldar, and hell, even orks! (As mercs)
There are very few factions that completely Eschew Xeno's contact.
You have a point, I elaborate that these examples were "necessary evils" and I'm not trying to dissuade your stance on the matter. They did indeed happen, the difference being the choice of words and context and that the writers (especially Ward) are injecting more and more "pro" xeno sentiment, treating it as something to embrace (Gehenna campaign) and sympathize (Ultras letting tau evacuate dying world).
That's much worse then hiring blood axes to kill other orks or helping eldar to later screw them over later. A friend once mused to me that a lot of this is very much a parable to the immigration problems the UK is dealing with, and that as the vice tightens over the nanny states the consensus is to begin promoting acceptance more than intolerance to "xenos".
I don't put much credence on that but it is a highly amusing justification on the matter.
47060
Post by: TheSovereign
I actually like the possibility of allies, I've always wanted to throw in a squad or two from another army for the sake of variety and storytelling (as long as it makes sense fluff-wise). The Blood Angels and Necrons thing is off the reservation in my opinion, though. If GW could find a way to balance/limit the inclusion of ally types (not that they would or could), it would be something I'd be interested in.
The Tau becoming a protectorate of the SM is in direct conflict with years of established fluff, however. Not keen on the idea of that, unless it's an isolated case where the Ethereals were somehow able to use their manipulation to sway one or two chapters. Beyond that, they're more interesting in their role now, as an ideological competitor to the Imperium for the hearts and minds of men. That's much more interesting, IMO.
37231
Post by: d-usa
The Dreadknight is basically a primitive crisis suit, so I endorse this rumor!
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
Why do people assume all space marines would be best buds with the tau? Just because they are given the task of protecting them does not mean they forget past conflicts, or solely go out to find tau and stay with them, imo it should be the chapters given orders if they find a tau fleet in trouble, they should just help them out and leave, refrain from killing them and don't stay and have a nice chat, most chapters would not want to stay around them anyway.
Even if this is true mind
I could also see some chapters turning renegade perhaps? I imagine people would be pretty cheesed off.
A bit OT but If warhammer was initially based just before the Hersey and the next edition was the heresy it self, would it have a negative effect for GW, imagine if you thought your beloved world eaters were true to the emperor and then all of a sudden have them turn to chaos.
21196
Post by: agnosto
AlexHolker wrote:agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff? At least an ideological schism would make sense.
I don't. There is no justification that would also allow for a Special Character fighting him- or herself, and the attempt would only weaken the fluff. Better to just write such battles off as uncanon entertainment, nothing more.
That's sort of my point. If someone needs strong fluff to be able to enjoy a game, they'd never be able to play considering the large percentage that play one flavor of Marine or another.
Generally speaking, the fluff is written so badly that I tend not to read completely through the codex/army book, just the rules. I tried to wade my way through some black library books (the Horus Heresy novels) but had to give up because the stories seemed to be written for violent 8 year olds with borderline pathological disorders.
Just curious about the fluff thing since some people are making such a big deal about it in this thread...
123
Post by: Alpharius
Yeah, time for 40K General I think...
42588
Post by: commissarkurn
In regards to the fluff...
I've played the Ultramarines since 2nd Ed, and I'd rather have my boys in blue declared Excommunicate Traitoris and burned alive than lift a single bolt gun in defense of the Tau.
Now, does this mean Dark Angels are finally going to admit they were ready to side with Horus but for his ass kicking at Terra, and that the Fallen are really the last of the legion's loyalists? 'Cause I'm getting really tired of the Inner Girl Circle of Trust... It was cool. Once. Gav wrote a crap story, but it had a very interesting notion hidden in the turd folds. Lately, however, it's like "Oh, ya know, I used to wear a size 4 dress, but ever since that Feast of Blades it's made my ass look fat."
The day that GW mandates FFG follow suit with this (wildly speculated) fluff change is the day they just killed my purchases from another company that provides me with 40K goodness.
And finally...
If the Horus Heresy novels start having Ultramarines and Tau acting like kissing cousins then I'm out. fething out, and I mean toot sweet. They can sell their shiny, happy, feel good, gold plated horse sh!t to pansy boys with balls the size of bbs and Lolita Girls with cl!td!cks. Seriously. That's like the First and Only bedding down with the Blood Pact.
14152
Post by: CT GAMER
agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff?.
I don't.
42588
Post by: commissarkurn
CT GAMER wrote:agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff?.
I don't.
The same way I justify hot Tau-on-Tau action...
57140
Post by: Je suis2 au hazard
commissarkurn wrote:CT GAMER wrote:agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff?.
I don't.
The same way I justify hot Tau-on-Tau action...
It's easy to justify marines fighting marines. The same ways marines, IG and SoB came into conflict in DoW.
17661
Post by: greenbay924
Milisim wrote:
GW NEED to do something to make the ACTUAL game of 40k FUN. After all games are supposed to be FUN. In its current state 40K is a massive grinding waste of space. The game itself is boring and unbalanced. WHFB is a MUCH more FUN game to play. Wether you liked 7th Edition or not, 8E is still miles more FUN to play than 5E 40k.
I'm gonna disagree with you about 8th edition. For the MOST part it was a solid transition, the simplified moving phase and allowing measuring at any time makes it easy to get people into the hobby, and doesn't really upset us veterans too much (from my experience). Where the edition went terribly wrong, though, is the step up rule, our ranking units as stubborn, and magic. The first two issues can be combined, this has rendered a lot of models (looking at you, assassins) almost completely useless. And units that should have no business being glorified (skaven slaves, for example) are now centerpieces of armies. As an orc and goblin player, I can't stand the relative power hordes have over elite units now. Yes, it used to not make much sense my unit of 40 goblins ran away screaming after taking a couple wounds from a unit of Chaos Knights, but that made much more sense now, whereas long as I have more ranks, all of a sudden I'm almost unbreakable? (I say almost, since you can still roll 10/11/12 to rail leadership). What I'm getting at with this paragraph is the game isn't really fun when there's nothing but horde vs horde, fighting an endless stalemate of "I lost combat, but I'm stubborn so nothing really changes." Are there exceptions to this? Sure, from outflanking and such, but it's not the norm (in MY experience mind you).
Now, I can get past that part, where 8th really messed up with how crucial the magic phase has become. I've never been a huge fan of it, Ever since Storm of Chaos I've liked running my Grimgor's 'Ard boyz list. We don't need no stinkin shaman! Oh wait, yes I do if I don't want to get destroyed by enemy magic. Essentially being forced to include a wizard of some level just to be competitive pisses me off so much. If 40k goes down that same route (which from what I can kind of see form current codex releases) with reliance on psykers, I'll be upset. My orks have no psychic defence, and really gakky psychic offense.
On Topic: I don't mind the fluff change, I twist every now and then keeps things interesting. What I'm worried about is the proposed "allies" thing. I find it counter intuitive to them trying to differentiate the armies. Why go through all the effort of creating the different MEQ books if in the end, they'll just pick and choose between the lot? Also, I won't be looking forward to fighting against psyflemen in EVERY MEQ list.
21196
Post by: agnosto
Je suis2 au hazard wrote:commissarkurn wrote:CT GAMER wrote:agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff?.
I don't.
The same way I justify hot Tau-on-Tau action...
It's easy to justify marines fighting marines. The same ways marines, IG and SoB came into conflict in DoW.
Then it's just as easy to justify them not killing Tau...
57140
Post by: Je suis2 au hazard
agnosto wrote:Je suis2 au hazard wrote:commissarkurn wrote:CT GAMER wrote:agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff?.
I don't.
The same way I justify hot Tau-on-Tau action...
It's easy to justify marines fighting marines. The same ways marines, IG and SoB came into conflict in DoW.
Then it's just as easy to justify them not killing Tau...
Not so much.
'Purge the Xenos' is a pretty universal concept in the IoM
34243
Post by: Blacksails
I refuse to acknowledge any of this, and if any of it somehow happens to become reality, I shall continue to refuse acknowledging any of it.
Either way, it gave me a good laugh. Space Marines babysitting the Tau who are the key to defeating Chaos? Bahahahaha, oh Emperor that's funny! *wipes tear from eye*
Maybe I should come up with some equally absurd rumour about the future of 40k...
53740
Post by: ZebioLizard2
Je suis2 au hazard wrote:agnosto wrote:Je suis2 au hazard wrote:commissarkurn wrote:CT GAMER wrote:agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff?.
I don't.
The same way I justify hot Tau-on-Tau action...
It's easy to justify marines fighting marines. The same ways marines, IG and SoB came into conflict in DoW.
Then it's just as easy to justify them not killing Tau...
Not so much.
'Purge the Xenos' is a pretty universal concept in the IoM
I play Dark Angels, deathwing. I justify everything by saying. "They have been touched by the fallen, they must die along with their secrets!"
51383
Post by: Experiment 626
greenbay924 wrote:
I'm gonna disagree with you about 8th edition. For the MOST part it was a solid transition, the simplified moving phase and allowing measuring at any time makes it easy to get people into the hobby, and doesn't really upset us veterans too much (from my experience). Where the edition went terribly wrong, though, is the step up rule, our ranking units as stubborn, and magic. The first two issues can be combined, this has rendered a lot of models (looking at you, assassins) almost completely useless. And units that should have no business being glorified (skaven slaves, for example) are now centerpieces of armies. As an orc and goblin player, I can't stand the relative power hordes have over elite units now. Yes, it used to not make much sense my unit of 40 goblins ran away screaming after taking a couple wounds from a unit of Chaos Knights, but that made much more sense now, whereas long as I have more ranks, all of a sudden I'm almost unbreakable? (I say almost, since you can still roll 10/11/12 to rail leadership). What I'm getting at with this paragraph is the game isn't really fun when there's nothing but horde vs horde, fighting an endless stalemate of "I lost combat, but I'm stubborn so nothing really changes." Are there exceptions to this? Sure, from outflanking and such, but it's not the norm (in MY experience mind you).
The big screw-up here was the fact that flanking doesn't negate ranks in regards to the steadfast bonus. If breaking ranks also ment no steadfast, things would change and those smaller elite units would have their proper place as the linebreakers & rolling up flanks.
As for the Step-up rule, it was needed, even if it has kinda screwed over fighty characters. I think the answer is simply to drop the pts costs of fighty heroes like assassins and similar so that while they're still deadly, they're no longer priced as if they're nearly impossible to remove!
greenbay924 wrote:Now, I can get past that part, where 8th really messed up with how crucial the magic phase has become. I've never been a huge fan of it, Ever since Storm of Chaos I've liked running my Grimgor's 'Ard boyz list. We don't need no stinkin shaman! Oh wait, yes I do if I don't want to get destroyed by enemy magic. Essentially being forced to include a wizard of some level just to be competitive pisses me off so much. If 40k goes down that same route (which from what I can kind of see form current codex releases) with reliance on psykers, I'll be upset. My orks have no psychic defence, and really gakky psychic offense.
Put simply, Ward went insanely OTT and broke the game here, plain and simple. The book lores are a gakking cluster  of game-breaking stupidity! Spells that can insta-wipe entire armies, (*coughpurplesuncough*), shouldn't exist at all! Hell, you can one-shot undead, lizzies, ogres, dwarfs & large chunks of the O&G's with that stupid spell. The Lore of Life is too good in it's buffs, while Shadow magic is again OTT with Mindrazor & Pit of Shades.
Notice however that GW has really gone to great lengths to tone down the magic in all the army books thus far. (bar Empire who can only use the BRB lores!)
No spells of insta-win super zappy'ness, nothing that screams OTT or anything, just good but relatively balanced.
greenbay924 wrote:On Topic: I don't mind the fluff change, I twist every now and then keeps things interesting. What I'm worried about is the proposed "allies" thing. I find it counter intuitive to them trying to differentiate the armies. Why go through all the effort of creating the different MEQ books if in the end, they'll just pick and choose between the lot? Also, I won't be looking forward to fighting against psyflemen in EVERY MEQ list.
My bet is the allies system works in a very similar manner to how 8th edition handels them so as to avoid setting off the perverbial clusterbomb of OP silliness!
I'm honestly hoping that GW have learned from the few glaring errors of 8th edition and give us a similar overhaul and fresh 6th edition 40k, but leave off the more rediculous OTT shinanigans that nearly ruined Fantasy. (*coughpowerstonecough*)
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