Lets get a discussion going about some possible tactics and combos that experienced and new players may not know about.

I'll start with the simple Imotekh combo with a chronometron that allows the player to make the game night for several turns.

10 Deathmarks in a NightScythe.

One strategy I've seen go around is a full phalanx of 20 warriors with a destroyer lord giving the entire unit preferred enemy. Not a bad idea for a mini deathball. Some have also gone so far as to also include a decked out overlord with phaeron to give the squad the ability to charge after rapid firing to finish off whatever squad didn't get annihilated by rapid firing (assuming it's nothing like terminators or something )

 DragonRider wrote:
10 Deathmarks in a NightScythe.

Hi, you must be new here.
(everyone knows it's FIVE Deathmarks in a Night Scythe AND a Despair-tek).


Also, Pro-Tip: try not to charge anything with Warriors.
Just don't.

Another good tactic is to combo Zandrekh with an Overlord in a CCB. You give your CCB stealth and if you moved at combat speed you get a +4 cover save because jink and stealth stack with each other due to cover saves being cumulative.


Likewise for cruising speed instead of a normal +4 cover save, you would be boosted up to a +3 cover save.

DLord + Triarch Praetorians. You can (and most do) run him with Wraiths as well, but Res Orbed PE TPs are really better (primarily because they are more resilient, and can be taken in bigger units) then PE Wraiths. Also, this gives you a good excuse to give the DLord a Res Orb, which can then be transferred alongside his PE to other units as needed (or once his escort his shot down).

Stalkers work great in both AV 13 and foot based spam lists.

Flyers are good, but don't go too crazy with them, as heavy flyer builds have no board presence and are generally weak at actually winning objective based games against competent opponents.

Doomsday Arcs and Stalkers. Eat. Anything (short of flyers). For Breakfast.

Well, I've seen an army with 2x 10 Immortals (with telsa weapons) each of which led by a DLord working in concert.
It worked very well.

10 x12 Necron warriors all on Ghost Arks and backed up by 6 Doomscythes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:

 DragonRider wrote:
10 Deathmarks in a NightScythe.

Hi, you must be new here.
(everyone knows it's FIVE Deathmarks in a Night Scythe AND a Despair-tek).


Also, Pro-Tip: try not to charge anything with Warriors.
Just don't.

Really? I've found 10 does the job better.

Well, a nice combo is a unit of Wraiths with whip coils and a C'tan with the ability to force an initiative test for one opponent model in btb. With I1, the model will eventually fail and then will be removed from play without the possibility to make a save.

]

 DragonRider wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 DragonRider wrote:
10 Deathmarks in a NightScythe.

Hi, you must be new here.
(everyone knows it's FIVE Deathmarks in a Night Scythe AND a Despair-tek).


Also, Pro-Tip: try not to charge anything with Warriors.
Just don't.

Really? I've found 10 does the job better.

You might think 10 would be "better", but with the Despair-tek attached, it's more like "unnecessary overkill". (a Death & Despair squad will reliably take out anything you point it at. A full 10 Deathmarks are kind of a waste, at that point... however, TWO units of 5 will mean double HfH markers! Much better!)

I've found a wraith rush, partnered by teleporting assault units such as lychguard, flayed ones, or praetorians into your enemy's backfield turn 1 will cause them to panic, and you'll cause lots of casualties turn 2

You might think 10 would be "better", but with the Despair-tek attached, it's more like "unnecessary overkill". (a Death & Despair squad will reliably take out anything you point it at. A full 10 Deathmarks are kind of a waste, at that point... however, TWO units of 5 will mean double HfH markers! Much better!)

That's a pretty good point. 5+Veil does the job pretty well more often then not. The one exception I've seen to this is 10+Veil+Trazyn+Res Lord (obviously from a second court) is pretty boss unit. Scoring, rapid-fire, relentless, wounding in 2+, sniper rifles are FTW. Flesh it out by bringing two more 5x1 D&D for maximum marks. Also, Trazyn wounding on a 2+ is pretty boss as well.

I thought they'd FAQ'd that so Trazyn's CC weapon's Empathic Obliterator doesn't wound on a 2+ if combined with Deathmarks?

But aside from that, I just want to remind everyone: Relentless is USELESS with Deathmarks (you do NOT want these guys in close combat).

Some newbie necron questions, figure this is as good a place to ask as any!

Are wraiths only worth taking with a d-lord? If I can only afford 5 of them with only 2 whip coils(that's legal, right?), is it better to spend the points elsewhere?

And how do people usually use their triarch stalker, if anyone even use them? I'm thinking TL heavy gauss cannon as a long range AT and secondary target marking for the army.

Lastly, why do I see people advising others to bring overlord with warscythe even if he's being deployed with a shooting unit? He's still dead if they get assaulted, so wouldn't a staff of light or gauntlet of fire be better for the counter-assault purpose, overwatch and all?

Thanks in advance!

Are wraiths only worth taking with a d-lord? If I can only afford 5 of them with only 2 whip coils(that's legal, right?), is it better to spend the points elsewhere?

Its legal. A DLord with weave in front can help to dimish damage via LoS.

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the plain old 20 man Necron Warrior squad with a Veil-tek. They give you a lot of tactical flexibility because they can rapid-fire most infantry units to death or near-death and can wreck most vehicles pretty easy. Then, if positioned correctly, can usually teleport out again before they can be seriously harmed.

 skoffs wrote:

 DragonRider wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 DragonRider wrote:
10 Deathmarks in a NightScythe.

Hi, you must be new here.
(everyone knows it's FIVE Deathmarks in a Night Scythe AND a Despair-tek).


Also, Pro-Tip: try not to charge anything with Warriors.
Just don't.

Really? I've found 10 does the job better.

You might think 10 would be "better", but with the Despair-tek attached, it's more like "unnecessary overkill". (a Death & Despair squad will reliably take out anything you point it at. A full 10 Deathmarks are kind of a waste, at that point... however, TWO units of 5 will mean double HfH markers! Much better!)

Why not put a D.lord in the 10 man squad just to make sure the overkill isn't taken to far.

Isn't the Necrons tactics just generally having a broken army?

 Dand218 wrote:
Isn't the Necrons tactics just generally having a broken army?

Its not broken. Its advanced and surperior technology.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Dand218 wrote:
Isn't the Necrons tactics just generally having a broken army?

Its not broken. Its advanced and surperior technology.

Touché

If you wanna piss off ur opponent, stick nemesor zhandrekh in a CCB, zoom him off as fast as possible, and also have vagard waiting with some sort of death type unit (could be 20 man warriors with maybe a lord, who really knows) and then BAM, no scatter huge squad suddenly in the enemies nether regions. Always funny, tho can only really be used once against one guy :(

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I'm suprised no one has mentioned the plain old 20 man Necron Warrior squad with a Veil-tek. They give you a lot of tactical flexibility because they can rapid-fire most infantry units to death or near-death and can wreck most vehicles pretty easy. Then, if positioned correctly, can usually teleport out again before they can be seriously harmed.

Well, good luck with a 20-man unit and the scatter dice :/

I am continuously amused by people discovering "new" tactics the rest of us have been using for months now.
(there really should be some area where approved race specific tactica can be sticky'd, so new players can find them at a glance).

In the mean time, how about we do a compilation for the newbies of everything we can think of that is commonly used in 6th (from basic to advanced):

- Overlord with Warscythe riding a CCB (MSS and Spe.Weave/P.Shifter optional)
- Destroyer Lord (MSS and Sep.Weave) leading 5-6 Wraiths (3x W.Coils) or Praetorians
- Deathmarks + Despair-tek (with VoD, or better yet, in a NS, so as to mitigate scatter)
- Warriors + Storm-tek (in NS. drop next to enemy vehicle)
- MSU of Warriors + Lance-teks (some people like to put them in GA for extra protection)
- 5 Lance-teks + 10 Warriors + GA (put Crypteks in GA, Warriors in front of transport. can handle two threats at different ranges).
- 2 Stalkers and 1-2 Doomsday Arks (with Tesla Immortals, Lance-teks, anything that will benefit from the Twinlinking bonus, really)
- 2-3 units of 7-10 Scarabs + 1-3 units of 3 Spyders ("Scarab Farm")
- 15-20 Warriors + Lord (with ResOrb), sometimes with a GA or two floating along side the blob ("Silver Tide")
- MSU Troops & Elites in NS (spam with Doom Scythes too for Necron Airforce)
- Zahndrek in something fast, Obyron with a unit of something shooty (Zahndrek zooms off next to whatever you want dead, Obyron pinpoint Ghostwalks next to him, unleash hell)
- Imotekh + Chrono-tek (re-rolls Night Fight continuation, as well as Lightning Strikes. Pro-tip: leave the long range shooters at home, take CC units instead)
- Trazyn + 5-10 Lychguard (never ending troll-face)
- Anrakyr + Sezras + 10 Immortals (tough little unit)
- Orikan + C'Tan (with Writhing Worldscape) + Termor-teks (enemy moves, enemy dies)
- C'tan (with Time's Arrow) + Whip Coil Wraiths (bye bye, enemy HQ)
and of course, everyone's favorite
- 5x Lords (fully armed) + 5x Harbingers (1 of each, also fully equipped) + HQ(s) of your choice (ROYAL COURT DISCO INFERNO~!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OH
also,
(very important)
every army should include 0 units of Flayed Ones.

There are better ways out there to waste points (and money), guys.

Hey, what about the good old improve Necron Phalanx aka blob of 20 warriors with 2 Ghost Arks + melee stuff? :(

/e: Nm, you listed that. I'd mention using two Ghost Arks though, one for the other squad, one for the Destrocourt o/

5 Harbigers of Destruction in a Ghost Ark + 10 Warriors in front the transport (can handle two threats at different ranges).

 wuestenfux wrote:
5 Harbigers of Destruction in a Ghost Ark + 10 Warriors in front the transport (can handle two threats at different ranges).

Hmm, simple, but that ain't bad at all...

The ark plus crypteks (assuming a solar pulse was purchased as well) becomes a huge threat (5 s8 ap2 shots per turn plus the gauss flayers) on a great platform (AV13 Front/Side) but at an equally huge point cost: 310 points to be precise (290 without the solar pulse, but then why bring harbingers of destruction without a pulse?).

so yes, simple, big threat, but also big point sink.

Hmm, actually, on second thought, I remember why we decided this wasn't the greatest idea:
So you've got 5 S8 AP2 shots in one unit, right?
Well let's say you're firing at a tank.
What happens if the first shot pops it?
Suddenly you've got 4 wasted shots.

Better to split them up in groups of twos or threes (if you've got double Overlords), so that way you get decent target Inquisition and less wasted firepower.

Well, statistically, of all 5 shots, 3 will hit. Average AV is about 12 13, so with S8, you need a roll of 5 or 6 to pen...very likely with 3 shots, rather unlikely with 1 shot.

Yes, but it's not like you'd be losing out on shots by splitting the Lance-teks up. If the first couple shots from unit A don't pop the vehicle, you still have unit B and C to call on. If the first shot DOES happen to pop the vehicle, units B and C are free to pursue other targets.
With all the Lance-teks sitting in the same unit, however, once that first lucky shot blows the tank up, the other four Lance-teks are standing around with their thumbs up their collective metal asses.

I agree that a group of 5 lanceteks is a waste. It's better to have the cryptkes split through your troops. It's more cost effective and makes more sense.

In 5th, the AV 13 Wall army build was basically three to five units of 5 Warriors in GAs with a couple of Lance-teks attached to each.
Add to that a couple Stalkers, some Heavy Destroyers, and one or two Doomsday Arks (maybe Annihilation Barges, too, if you had the points and HS slots left over), and you had quite a force to be reckoned with.
... I'm not sure why people stopped playing this build in 6th, though...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh wait, I know why:
NS Spam became the new OP-ness.

Do you guys think that Night Scythes should always be used as the primary dedicated transport, or is the ghost ark completely useless?

 skoffs wrote:
I thought they'd FAQ'd that so Trazyn's CC weapon's Empathic Obliterator doesn't wound on a 2+ if combined with Deathmarks?

But aside from that, I just want to remind everyone: Relentless is USELESS with Deathmarks (you do NOT want these guys in close combat).

They would effectively have assault 2 sniper rifles and wound still wound any marked targets on 2+, both in shooting and assault. Combined with Trazyn (whom, no, was never FAQed to not work with Deathmmarks), and a lord or two, they could be quite nasty in assault, particularly against their marked targets.

OH
also,
(very important)
every army should include 0 units of Flayed Ones.
There are better ways out there to waste points (and money), guys.

/sigh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sounddemon wrote:
Do you guys think that Night Scythes should always be used as the primary dedicated transport, or is the ghost ark completely useless?

They certainly aren't useless. Some of the better armies I've seen have employed one or two to support the ground anchor as well as some Night Scythes. Fennell, for instance, always uses one or two.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
I thought they'd FAQ'd that so Trazyn's CC weapon's Empathic Obliterator doesn't wound on a 2+ if combined with Deathmarks?

Trazyn (whom, no, was never FAQed to not work with Deathmmarks)

... are you trying to argue that the "Psionic Shockwave" portion of the Empathic Obliterator, after killing a model, will wound other similar models in the same unit on a roll of 2+ instead it's normal 4+, thanks to Hunters from Hyperspace?
As the entry in the codex states,
"To resolve the psionic shockwave, roll a D6 for every model in the combat (friendly and enemy) with the exact same name on their characteristic profile as the model slain by Trazyn that phase. If the score is 4 or more, that model suffers a wound (armour saves taken as normal)." - pg. 59
Therefore, it's just an ability going off. Despite the fact that the ability causes wounds, it can not benefit from Hunters from Hyperspace (which only affects shooting/combat to-wound rolls).

If, however, you are merely stating that the Empathic Obliterator itself wounds on a 2+, well, we have no problem.

Yes, just the normal attacks, not the follow up ability. Still, that makes a pretty big difference, as it's all about getting that initial wound with him.

 sounddemon wrote:
I agree that a group of 5 lanceteks is a waste. It's better to have the cryptkes split through your troops. It's more cost effective and makes more sense.

No, it is not.
The Lanceteks have a range of 36''. After one unit is destroyed they will easily find another target.
Moreover, the enemy will react accordingly, either moving some units out of range (but this is almost impossible) or shoot them. This will eventually disrupt his plans. Good for you.

 skoffs wrote:
In 5th, the AV 13 Wall army build was basically three to five units of 5 Warriors in GAs with a couple of Lance-teks attached to each.
Add to that a couple Stalkers, some Heavy Destroyers, and one or two Doomsday Arks (maybe Annihilation Barges, too, if you had the points and HS slots left over), and you had quite a force to be reckoned with.
... I'm not sure why people stopped playing this build in 6th, though...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh wait, I know why:
NS Spam became the new OP-ness.

Still using it, kicking ass. I don't have a single flyer yet won 2 tournaments.

 sounddemon wrote:
I agree that a group of 5 lanceteks is a waste. It's better to have the cryptkes split through your troops. It's more cost effective and makes more sense.

Just like Dev squads are no good because you are better off spreading your heavy weapons out in Tac squads?

There are positives and negatives to both approaches but overkill from the court is not really relevant. You don’t spend a load of extra points and foc slots to avoid the (statistically improbable) chance that one lance would have been enough.

Also your better off with 4 lance-teks and one Chrono-tek than 5 lance-teks.

Necrons inherently do 2 things well: Shoot and catch bullets. Even IG's tanks need fear because our basic infantry gun can and will glance them to death (eventually).

Here's a little trick I found with the CCB.
First sweep over a target, preferably a vehicle.
Then pivot on the spot. And then shoot. And then charge.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Here's a little trick I found with the CCB.
First sweep over a target, preferably a vehicle.
Then pivot on the spot. And then shoot. And then charge.

You're a few months late

 Sigvatr wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Here's a little trick I found with the CCB.
First sweep over a target, preferably a vehicle.
Then pivot on the spot. And then shoot. And then charge.

You're a few months late

Aw, in that case

I suggest to keep this thread serious. If you already know a tactical gimmick, who cares.

Well, in going to get flamed for this one, but...

Szeras plus zandrekh and obyron. Take a 20 man squad and put obyron and szeras in then, upgrade the squad with szeras, i prefer toughness or strength upgrade.

Use warriors to jump around and destroy anything, tanks, infantry, whatever. T5 plus 4+ and reanimation makes them hard to get rid of, szeras gives then a high Str shot and defensive grenades, and obyron rocks face, maybe add a lord with mss and orb got more killy and better reanimation. If you think you will be assaulted give them counter attack, then with defense grenades, over watch, and counter attack its equal to you getting the charge.

S5 makes them solid in cc, plus furious charge from zandrekh and you've got a pretty solid assault unit. Drop them in your opponents zone rapid fie and kill something, preferably something with a template if he has them, then assault next turn. The turn you drop in you could take tank hunter to kill that tank that had the large blast, like a Lehman Russ.

Everyone i bring up szeras people flame me, but they just don't see his real genius.

I actually really like that idea. Szeras is a pretty underrated HQ, for 100 points he is a steal.

Ghostwalk mantle combined with adaptive tactics can be surprisingly good.

Let's stay serious here.

You assume Warriors to get the T upgrade...that's a 30% chance. Counter-attack requires you to roll a I test. With Necrons. Another 33% chance you rely on. You seem to have gotten his rules wrong, you can't choose the upgrade, you have to *roll* which one you'll end up with.

S5 does not make them solid in melee. They still got I2. They still got 1 basic attack. They still got a 4+ save.

You assume you'll never scatter too far although that's not really easy with a squad of ~25 models...you'll need a LOT of space to pull this off and deepstriking into the enemy deployment zone at start in order to shoot something is the best way to lose the game at turn 1. Even if you do get lucky and manage to deepstrike safely, you will end up getting shot to pieces as the rest of your army lags behind (literally, haha.).

Szeras is not a "steal" for 100 points. That's 100 points, guys, and that guy is a Destruction Cryptek that normally costs 45 points with 2 wounds and more attacks. Let him be ~70 points and he'd be cool. But 100 points? Female dog in heat, please.

Imo, to be viable Szeras should either:

a) be ~70 points

or

b) have his ability increase T / BS / I

Counter attack is a leadership test, not initiative. There is not a bad upgrade from szeras, i just prefer Str or toughness over bs5, and i am not relying on any one, you roll before you decide what to do with them, then you adjust to what they get.

T5 is not a must, just one of 3 solid outcomes.

Don't forget they szeras is also a destructek with three wounds and a 3+ save with defensive grenades and 4 attacks base and boosts a scoring unit. 100 points for an hq is hard to pull off these days, let alone for one that does what he does.

Coteaz and a selection of SM Librarians (or Rune Priests) would like a word. Great choices that are 100pts.

I would like to point out that 40 gauss shots may do a number on a vehicle, especially with tank hunter, but even so you can get the job done cheaper with 5 warriors and a stormtek coming out of a scythe. Gives you a bit more utility too as you now have something that can deal with fliers (as well as one of your own) and the ability to relocate reliably.

However 40 gauss shots won't do a number on infantry. 27 hits, 14 wounds...you killed between 4 and 5 MEQs and spent a ton of points to do so.

 sounddemon wrote:
I actually really like that idea. Szeras is a pretty underrated HQ, for 100 points he is a steal.

Ghostwalk mantle combined with adaptive tactics can be surprisingly good.

I don't think Szeras is terrible for the price. He's a decent HQ for the points. The trouble is that you only get 2 HQs, and in order to take him you have to give up so much.

 Dave-c wrote:
Counter attack is a leadership test, not initiative. There is not a bad upgrade from szeras, i just prefer Str or toughness over bs5, and i am not relying on any one, you roll before you decide what to do with them, then you adjust to what they get.

T5 is not a must, just one of 3 solid outcomes.

Don't forget they szeras is also a destructek with three wounds and a 3+ save with defensive grenades and 4 attacks base and boosts a scoring unit. 100 points for an hq is hard to pull off these days, let alone for one that does what he does.

^^ This. He only has 2 wounds, but I'm with you Dave. What Sig and others don't seem to realize is that in the type of unit your describing you really don't care which upgrade you get, as they all are good at that point.

The way I price him is like this:

45 Points Lancetek+Gaze
15 Points +1 Wound, +3 Attacks, +1 Save, and no "Overlord Tax", which is factored into each RC choice to some degree.

So you're paying 40 points for the upgrade, or 2 points per Warrior. Pretty reasonably priced. If he was 70 points as Sig suggests he would be completely broken. I maybe could see 90 or so, but 70 seems a bit absurd.

And as Dave already pointed out, CA is a Leadership test, which just happens to be one of Necrons best stats.

I use Szeras to reinforce my 20man overlord/ghostark supported block. As it's pretty much the only foot infantry on the field, aside from objective babysitters, that stat boost is really nice.

T5, good. Means even less of them die. Stacked with res orb and ark, its pretty unkillable.

BS5, good. 40 gauss shots, twin linked with stalkers will obliterate pretty much anything I point it at.

S5, good. Helps cover their biggest weakness, which is CC. Even at I2, str5 still hurts. Espeically when theres an overlord swinging away as well. Youre far more likely to even the odds on combat resolution and not break.

On a similar tangent about HQ's. How would you guys run Vargard Obyron? Do you know of any combos that work well with him or do you guys think he is a lost cause that isn't very viable?

 sounddemon wrote:
On a similar tangent about HQ's. How would you guys run Vargard Obyron? Do you know of any combos that work well with him or do you guys think he is a lost cause that isn't very viable?

Well, he has great qualities about him. The no scatter deep strike with zandrekh is great, move zandrekh forward in a vehicle, unit, ccb, etc, then ds to his position with something nasty, or something scoring, or whatever you are trying to do.

You have to be very careful what you throw at him, he has no invul and if you put him between a rock and a hard place he will not live long enough to hit back. It is not wise to let zandrekh get into combat until you are done moving the unit around with the ghostmantle. Well, he just shouldnt be in any combat at all, honestly.

I usually do obyron plus 20 warriors or obyron plus 10 lychguard in big games. You can hide obyron behind those 4++ shields since he doesnt have one for himself.

 Dave-c wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
On a similar tangent about HQ's. How would you guys run Vargard Obyron? Do you know of any combos that work well with him or do you guys think he is a lost cause that isn't very viable?

Well, he has great qualities about him. The no scatter deep strike with zandrekh is great, move zandrekh forward in a vehicle, unit, ccb, etc, then ds to his position with something nasty, or something scoring, or whatever you are trying to do.

You have to be very careful what you throw at him, he has no invul and if you put him between a rock and a hard place he will not live long enough to hit back. It is not wise to let zandrekh get into combat until you are done moving the unit around with the ghostmantle. Well, he just shouldnt be in any combat at all, honestly.

I usually do obyron plus 20 warriors or obyron plus 10 lychguard in big games. You can hide obyron behind those 4++ shields since he doesnt have one for himself.

Vargard is awesome in combat, what are you talking about? Sure, he'll get ripped up by AP 2 CC weapons but most of those strike at I1 anyway so he has a shot of surviving at least one round. The added attacks on misses against him is great too.

Yes, it would be best if he was accompanied by a squad of something that is equally good in CC, but he can do just as well in a CCB.

How does Cleaving Counterblow work if Obyron is in a unit?

 sounddemon wrote:
How does Cleaving Counterblow work if Obyron is in a unit?

Same as it does if he's solo.

The enemy attacks would be the same number whether he's in a unit or not, and the enemy is still attempting to strike him whether he's in a unit or not.

i'm under the notion that when an enemy assaults into obyron's group you would take the majority WS and toughness, if this is the case, how would you know what misses would add up towards cleaving counterblow?

 sounddemon wrote:
i'm under the notion that when an enemy assaults into obyron's group you would take the majority WS and toughness, if this is the case, how would you know what misses would add up towards cleaving counterblow?

Again, it doesn't matter. It only mattered in 5th because you "had" to allocate attacks against an IC. Now when you assault the unit you're attacking "everyone" which includes him, so essentially every attack is against him or could be counted as being against him. Or every miss, as it were.

Obviously this is different for challenges.

I disagree. When an enemy unit attacks another, they're directing blows at the unit as a whole (therefore majority WS/T applies). Obyron should only get his bonus strikes from cleaving counterblow when he is solo or in a challenge.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I disagree. When an enemy unit attacks another, they're directing blows at the unit as a whole (therefore majority WS/T applies). Obyron should only get his bonus strikes from cleaving counterblow when he is solo or in a challenge.

So, they either are or are not trying to hit obyron. Which is it? Yes, they are striking at the unit as a whole but he is included in there and is thus being attacked, or having blows directed at him.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Dave-c wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
On a similar tangent about HQ's. How would you guys run Vargard Obyron? Do you know of any combos that work well with him or do you guys think he is a lost cause that isn't very viable?

Well, he has great qualities about him. The no scatter deep strike with zandrekh is great, move zandrekh forward in a vehicle, unit, ccb, etc, then ds to his position with something nasty, or something scoring, or whatever you are trying to do.

You have to be very careful what you throw at him, he has no invul and if you put him between a rock and a hard place he will not live long enough to hit back. It is not wise to let zandrekh get into combat until you are done moving the unit around with the ghostmantle. Well, he just shouldnt be in any combat at all, honestly.

I usually do obyron plus 20 warriors or obyron plus 10 lychguard in big games. You can hide obyron behind those 4++ shields since he doesnt have one for himself.

Vargard is awesome in combat, what are you talking about? Sure, he'll get ripped up by AP 2 CC weapons but most of those strike at I1 anyway so he has a shot of surviving at least one round. The added attacks on misses against him is great too.

Yes, it would be best if he was accompanied by a squad of something that is equally good in CC, but he can do just as well in a CCB.

Agreed, obyron has become better in this edition, but you cant throw him anywhere. There are many things that will kill him easliy. Any monstrous creature with I3 or higher or more wounds then he can take off, smach attacks will insta kill with no save, anything that has a decent invul save and ap2 weapon, anyone with a force axe and invul save, anything that reduces his init to 0 and has an ap2 weapon, the list is long, he is good, and even better in 6th, but still fragile against some foes.

All i said was be careful with him, which is the truth.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I disagree. When an enemy unit attacks another, they're directing blows at the unit as a whole (therefore majority WS/T applies). Obyron should only get his bonus strikes from cleaving counterblow when he is solo or in a challenge.

So, they either are or are not trying to hit obyron. Which is it? Yes, they are striking at the unit as a whole but he is included in there and is thus being attacked, or having blows directed at him.

 Dave-c wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Dave-c wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
On a similar tangent about HQ's. How would you guys run Vargard Obyron? Do you know of any combos that work well with him or do you guys think he is a lost cause that isn't very viable?

Well, he has great qualities about him. The no scatter deep strike with zandrekh is great, move zandrekh forward in a vehicle, unit, ccb, etc, then ds to his position with something nasty, or something scoring, or whatever you are trying to do.

You have to be very careful what you throw at him, he has no invul and if you put him between a rock and a hard place he will not live long enough to hit back. It is not wise to let zandrekh get into combat until you are done moving the unit around with the ghostmantle. Well, he just shouldnt be in any combat at all, honestly.

I usually do obyron plus 20 warriors or obyron plus 10 lychguard in big games. You can hide obyron behind those 4++ shields since he doesnt have one for himself.

Vargard is awesome in combat, what are you talking about? Sure, he'll get ripped up by AP 2 CC weapons but most of those strike at I1 anyway so he has a shot of surviving at least one round. The added attacks on misses against him is great too.

Yes, it would be best if he was accompanied by a squad of something that is equally good in CC, but he can do just as well in a CCB.

Agreed, obyron has become better in this edition, but you cant throw him anywhere. There are many things that will kill him easliy. Any monstrous creature with I3 or higher or more wounds then he can take off, smach attacks will insta kill with no save, anything that has a decent invul save and ap2 weapon, anyone with a force axe and invul save, anything that reduces his init to 0 and has an ap2 weapon, the list is long, he is good, and even better in 6th, but still fragile against some foes.

All i said was be careful with him, which is the truth.

True, but that's no different than it really was before. He's become much better against standard power weapons or even "unusual" ones. Besides, most of that stuff you mentioned should be taken out in shooting anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I disagree. When an enemy unit attacks another, they're directing blows at the unit as a whole (therefore majority WS/T applies). Obyron should only get his bonus strikes from cleaving counterblow when he is solo or in a challenge.

So, they either are or are not trying to hit obyron. Which is it? Yes, they are striking at the unit as a whole but he is included in there and is thus being attacked, or having blows directed at him.

I'm guessing you're just circling back here. Well that's fine. Hopefully it'll be FAQ'd, I sent my email to them (for however much good it'll actually do). Should the situation ever come up, I'll discuss it with my group.

Bah! @kevin949 I had a rational and lucid counterpoint underneath the quote & my phone decided that part needed left out. Ill gather my thoughts and rebut when I get to a PC.

perhaps it deserves a YMDC thread?

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Bah! @kevin949 I had a rational and lucid counterpoint underneath the quote & my phone decided that part needed left out. Ill gather my thoughts and rebut when I get to a PC.

perhaps it deserves a YMDC thread?

Perhaps, but honestly I'm personally not that worried about it. I rarely use that HQ choice, myself. If you would like to make the thread, please feel free (obviously, I don't govern your actions. If I did, you'd agree with me always! Hah)

It certainly looks like an interesting point of contention. I fear a thorough read of the BRB may not yield satisfactory answers either way. Won't stop me checking it out after work though.

Has anyone ever considered the possibility of using a C'Tan Shard with writhing worldscape and orikan the diviner to make the entire board not only difficult but dangerous terrain?

 sounddemon wrote:
Has anyone ever considered the possibility of using a C'Tan Shard with writhing worldscape and orikan the diviner to make the entire board not only difficult but dangerous terrain?

Now that armor saves are allowed, it's not as viable a combo anymore. But yes, people have done it.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
Has anyone ever considered the possibility of using a C'Tan Shard with writhing worldscape and orikan the diviner to make the entire board not only difficult but dangerous terrain?

Now that armor saves are allowed, it's not as viable a combo anymore. But yes, people have done it.

Well, this is a no-no in friendly games. Is it worth it in competitive play? Horde units generally have a low armor save and so losing two-third (or more) of a unit while moving would be nice option.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
Has anyone ever considered the possibility of using a C'Tan Shard with writhing worldscape and orikan the diviner to make the entire board not only difficult but dangerous terrain?

Now that armor saves are allowed, it's not as viable a combo anymore. But yes, people have done it.

Well, this is a no-no in friendly games. Is it worth it in competitive play? Horde units generally have a low armor save and so losing two-third (or more) of a unit while moving would be nice option.

This, plus vehicles are still stopped in their tracks (literally ). I don't think it's a combo that can be shoe horned into any list, but if, for whatever reason, you were looking to have a Shard and Orikan anyway, it seems rather silly not to get WW.

Also, people can't null deploy you anymore, making that first turn shenanigans by Orikan more useful now. And, Orikan is pretty secsie for Flyer Wings.

An Aegis with Comms Relay is cheaper and doesn't take up a valuable HQ slot though. You miss out on the quad gun but hey, our tesla does just fine.

 Lukus83 wrote:
An Aegis with Comms Relay is cheaper and doesn't take up a valuable HQ slot though. You miss out on the quad gun but hey, our tesla does just fine.

True, but it also doesn't provide you with a semi-monstrous creature that makes the ground difficult terrain the first turn, the latter ability can also be particularly clutch if your going heavy air assault as it can limit the ability of your opponent to maneuver and destroy whatever you placed down the first turn. Plus 3+/3+>>2+, for the straight comparison in that department.

Fair point on the HQ slot. I think Orikan becomes really interesting in Double FOC games when you can put him into interesting combinations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which reminds me, for anyone who hasn't tried it yet this is a fun little combo:

Obyron
Trazyn
6xWraiths w/Trans Beamers (yes, those Trans Beamers)

Nemie
LG (numbered to flavor)
RC of choice
Night Scythe

It's a little too pricey to be "competitive", however its great fun against most armies. Obyron/Trazyn and the Wraiths DS around starting turn one and melt things with the Trans Beamers. Optimum targets are Termies/Pallies/Oblits/MCs/Dreadnaughts/HQ/CCS/etc. Eldar seer councils will absolutely hate you, as well as their twisted cousins. Really anything that concentrates points into one or a few bases and has the Strength characteristic. Oh, and it scores too, fun.

As soon as Nemie and his body guard arrive you can start pinpoint DSing off of Nemie, so stick him in the center of the action for maximum beamage. Also, the LG provide a natural home for Trazyn should the SHTF for the Wraith squad.

Again, it's pricey, but against some armies like Nidzilla, or even GK with Psyflespam/DK's (and Chaos Fiends/Defilers), it's absolutely comical to see their expensive units get erased by a weapon most people consider useless. And of course the unit is no slouch in CC either, especially with Nemie buffage.

The problem is with all that moving going on, the trans beamers will all be requiring '6's to-hit. Not very consistent or effective at all. Plus it puts your shock assault unit (wraiths) into a shooting unit. They'll always do more damage in assault than by bamfing around the table snap firing a heavy strength test gun.

In short that is terrible tactical advice.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
The problem is with all that moving going on, the trans beamers will all be requiring '6's to-hit. Not very consistent or effective at all. Plus it puts your shock assault unit (wraiths) into a shooting unit. They'll always do more damage in assault than by bamfing around the table snap firing a heavy strength test gun.

In short that is terrible tactical advice.

Trazyn is a phaeron, so you will be shooting with your full BS after moving, and can still assault after shooting. Not after DSing, but certainly after moving.

 Dave-c wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
The problem is with all that moving going on, the trans beamers will all be requiring '6's to-hit. Not very consistent or effective at all. Plus it puts your shock assault unit (wraiths) into a shooting unit. They'll always do more damage in assault than by bamfing around the table snap firing a heavy strength test gun.

In short that is terrible tactical advice.

Trazyn is a phaeron, so you will be shooting with your full BS after moving, and can still assault after shooting. Not after DSing, but certainly after moving.

Oh, yes he is. Overlooked that , so disregard the '6's to hit portion of the above. That certainly makes the unit better with the Beamer, and the advice not terrible, so for that i'll apologize. Still not something i'm eager to try out but it would be interesting to see a carnifex take 6 (strength?) tests.

By joining Trazyn, you also reduce your Wraith's movement by 6'', further hampering their chances to assault. Not to mention that there's no point in putting him in a melee squad when he sucks at melee...

My favourites are

Dual courts

Small warrior squads with dual LanceTeks (135pts as long as you have two overlords)
On back field. A PITA to remove with the double ever living rolls and 5 warrior wound catchers. The number of times I have scored an objective with a sole LanceTek! They are hardly worth the fire power to take down on own and is ingored or destroyed completely with alot of overkill and a chance to pop back up again.

Dual TerrorTeks with deathmarks. (255pts)
Precision placement required from a nightscythe. Hit with both templates and then the rapid fire snipers. This one has been known about for a while but 6th and flyers have helped alot with the precision placement to maximise the flamer templates and not relie on deep striking.

Dual StormTeks in full Immortal squad (240pts not including Orb lord)
Push up mid field with orb overlord with dual StormTeks both with lightening fields. 2D6 Str8 AP5 hits when they get charged. Go tesla for max overwatch. It glances to death light mech at 24" and destroys most things with 8 haywire shots at 12". Str 8 stops FNP on T4. Marines would get the 3+ amour saves. I am not sure how the lightening wounds are allocated? nearest from the unit? It could stop quite a few charges too.


Regular squads

Scarab squads
Work best in units of 6 I have found. Any higher they are a waste I have found. They get alot of attention for a 90pt unit. If you have a spare fast slot take them. They are becoming less useful as I am seeing less and less mech where I play but still good at tying up units that do not have Str6 or greater to double their T3 out.

Wraiths with D lord (370 Pts)
Max out the wraith squad no upgrades. D lord with weave and mind shackles. Everyone knows this works super well. Just saying again it rocks. Obviously you do lose the court access. I take the tachyon arrow for the fun of it. Most take an Orb just for him as wraiths don't benefit. He works good with scarabs too as they get so many hits.

LoneLord (130 Pts)
Necron take on lonewolves. 130 pts gets an armour bane AP1 warscythe wielding T5 2+ mind shackling monster, Super resilient and can wreck face. He rarely survives the game. Be sensitive to AP1&2 on the board. I put him in the unit below and deployed him on his own. Don't make him your warlord unless you have balls of steal (If you do go personal traits). Everliving will make people cry.


Protected Warrior squad (165 pts)
Min size warriors protected in a night Scyth. Keppt them safe and claim objectives eng game. If their ride blows up they can walk on to claim objectives nearer your deployment zone unscathed as they do not take crashing hits. Sometimes 10 shots from the warriors is enough to remove enemy troops from an objective and score yourselves.

Annihilation Barges. (270 pts)
Running three is the norm for me. AV13 with a jink is difficult to budge. Will keep Anti tank busy all game. Occasionally will swap one to get access to the death ray beam on the Doom Scythe. Don't forget turn 1 to wrap wraiths around them to obsure them as you only get jink if you moved.

Flayed ones Linebreak.
I did try to run them as a linebreaker unit but you can't always sit them in terrain in the opponents deployment and they die too quick. They do come out for friendly games.

Imotekh
His lightening can hit flyers! Only used in 1750 + point games. More of a flufft list. Nothing in the army can shoot over 24" and wraiths.

Who mans the ADL gun?
Small warrior squad normally
Harbinger of eternity with cronometron for re rolls. Go with Icarus cannon for the kill. Reroll cover saves too. Can pick out characters or special on a 6. So quad gun also works.
If you have the fast slot left a tomb blade with shadow looms for a 3+ cover save. Upgrade his eyes for 5pts for a BS5. Jet bikes can move 36" so could steal line breaker too. No RP as he is on his own.

tallerguy - I love those dual-court setups. Nice thinking there.

As far as lightning field wound allocation, i believe it's random allocation since it's not a shooting or CC attack.

Wraiths with D-Lord (or scarabs) -- don't forget to point out that his Preferred Enemy (everything) confers to the unit he's with. Re-rolling 1's to hit and to wound is great for either squad he goes with, even a blob of warriors!

 tallerguy wrote:
My favourites are

Dual courts

Small warrior squads with dual LanceTeks (135pts as long as you have two overlords)
On back field. A PITA to remove with the double ever living rolls and 5 warrior wound catchers. The number of times I have scored an objective with a sole LanceTek! They are hardly worth the fire power to take down on own and is ingored or destroyed completely with alot of overkill and a chance to pop back up again.

Dual TerrorTeks with deathmarks. (255pts)
Precision placement required from a nightscythe. Hit with both templates and then the rapid fire snipers. This one has been known about for a while but 6th and flyers have helped alot with the precision placement to maximise the flamer templates and not relie on deep striking.

Dual StormTeks in full Immortal squad (240pts not including Orb lord)
Push up mid field with orb overlord with dual StormTeks both with lightening fields. 2D6 Str8 AP5 hits when they get charged. Go tesla for max overwatch. It glances to death light mech at 24" and destroys most things with 8 haywire shots at 12". Str 8 stops FNP on T4. Marines would get the 3+ amour saves. I am not sure how the lightening wounds are allocated? nearest from the unit? It could stop quite a few charges too.


Regular squads

Scarab squads
Work best in units of 6 I have found. Any higher they are a waste I have found. They get alot of attention for a 90pt unit. If you have a spare fast slot take them. They are becoming less useful as I am seeing less and less mech where I play but still good at tying up units that do not have Str6 or greater to double their T3 out.

Wraiths with D lord (370 Pts)
Max out the wraith squad no upgrades. D lord with weave and mind shackles. Everyone knows this works super well. Just saying again it rocks. Obviously you do lose the court access. I take the tachyon arrow for the fun of it. Most take an Orb just for him as wraiths don't benefit. He works good with scarabs too as they get so many hits.

LoneLord (130 Pts)
Necron take on lonewolves. 130 pts gets an armour bane AP1 warscythe wielding T5 2+ mind shackling monster, Super resilient and can wreck face. He rarely survives the game. Be sensitive to AP1&2 on the board. I put him in the unit below and deployed him on his own. Don't make him your warlord unless you have balls of steal (If you do go personal traits). Everliving will make people cry.


Protected Warrior squad (165 pts)
Min size warriors protected in a night Scyth. Keppt them safe and claim objectives eng game. If their ride blows up they can walk on to claim objectives nearer your deployment zone unscathed as they do not take crashing hits. Sometimes 10 shots from the warriors is enough to remove enemy troops from an objective and score yourselves.

Annihilation Barges. (270 pts)
Running three is the norm for me. AV13 with a jink is difficult to budge. Will keep Anti tank busy all game. Occasionally will swap one to get access to the death ray beam on the Doom Scythe. Don't forget turn 1 to wrap wraiths around them to obsure them as you only get jink if you moved.

Flayed ones Linebreak.
I did try to run them as a linebreaker unit but you can't always sit them in terrain in the opponents deployment and they die too quick. They do come out for friendly games.

Imotekh
His lightening can hit flyers! Only used in 1750 + point games. More of a flufft list. Nothing in the army can shoot over 24" and wraiths.

Who mans the ADL gun?
Small warrior squad normally
Harbinger of eternity with cronometron for re rolls. Go with Icarus cannon for the kill. Reroll cover saves too. Can pick out characters or special on a 6. So quad gun also works.
If you have the fast slot left a tomb blade with shadow looms for a 3+ cover save. Upgrade his eyes for 5pts for a BS5. Jet bikes can move 36" so could steal line breaker too. No RP as he is on his own.

The deathmark/abyssal night scythe is extremely good, its one of my favorite ways of out right killing any deathball. A str8 ap 1 template that wounds on +2 is nasty. If anyone hasn't used this combo I would suggest using it.

 tallerguy wrote:
Min size warriors protected in a night Scyth. Keppt them safe and claim objectives eng game. If their ride blows up they can walk on to claim objectives nearer your deployment zone unscathed as they do not take crashing hits. Sometimes 10 shots from the warriors is enough to remove enemy troops from an objective and score yourselves

This is highly debatable. It does not say they avoid the damage anymore. There has been much discussion at my FLGS and in my own meta about this. The jury is still out from what I hear. I only mention it because there is no hard ruling on this (needs an FAQ) and players should be aware of what their local meta is and what a TO's ruling would be should your transport pop.

If however, you have found something that beyond a doubt proves that they should not take this damage, please forward it along, because I would love to bring this to my meta. Currently, this is what is disabling and regulating my flyer spam lists... I get a couple popped night scythes and suddenly my msu units are completely gone. I'm not complaining, only saying that this one ruling is a big deal when you are taking STR 10 hits with no armour save!

The lightening field wounds look like they are allocated in the assaults phase after over watch so would contribute to the combat resolution. It can not stop a charge as it goes off once the charging unit has made contact.

The D lord is a beast. He appears in all my lists 1500 and down. You can pick him up along with the wraiths in a night scythe too!

I did not know about the issue night scythes worm hole gateway. It is a big boon I thought everyone played it this way. I am sorry but you are stuck with the local ruling with out an FAQ. That sucks. Can we add it to the INAT FAQ if it has not been yet?

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
Has anyone ever considered the possibility of using a C'Tan Shard with writhing worldscape and orikan the diviner to make the entire board not only difficult but dangerous terrain?

Now that armor saves are allowed, it's not as viable a combo anymore. But yes, people have done it.

Well, this is a no-no in friendly games. Is it worth it in competitive play? Horde units generally have a low armor save and so losing two-third (or more) of a unit while moving would be nice option.

I don't know about your friendly games, but my friends just hate everything about necrons (even though they're the ones that convinced me to play them). So I say "fine, you wanna hate, here's something to really hate."




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tallerguy wrote:

Imotekh
His lightening can hit flyers! Only used in 1750 + point games. More of a flufft list. Nothing in the army can shoot over 24" and wraiths.

You may want to look up some YMDC threads about this one...the way it is right now, it probably can't.

For those of you new players who have just discovered the Writhing Worldscape C'tan + Orkian combo: do yourselves a favor and look up "TremorCron" to see how to possibly maximize this tactic.
(not as good as it was pre-6th, but that's not to say it doesn't still work).

And regarding Wraith-wing: why would you take ALL of your Wraiths naked? Surely it would be a better idea to give at least 3 of them Whip Coils?

Complete agreement in regards to shot down Night Scythes and the occupants not taking the S10 hit. (from a fluff perspective, it makes perfect sense. They're not actually on board the craft, they disembark via a wormhole on the underside of the vehicle. The only thing physically onboard

TremorCron is a terrible, terrible strategy vs everything but horde armies. Orikan is the weakest HQ in our codex as his cost-efficiency is a mess.

vs. MEQ, they need to roll a 1 or 2 (1/3 chance) to even wound them and since they may now take armorsaves, there's another 1/3 chance to add thus a squad of 10 marines is going to lose 1.

Waste so many points and a HQ choice? Not worth it.

 skoffs wrote:
For those of you new players who have just discovered the Writhing Worldscape C'tan + Orkian combo: do yourselves a favor and look up "TremorCron" to see how to possibly maximize this tactic.
(not as good as it was pre-6th, but that's not to say it doesn't still work).

And regarding Wraith-wing: why would you take ALL of your Wraiths naked? Surely it would be a better idea to give at least 3 of them Whip Coils?

Complete agreement in regards to shot down Night Scythes and the occupants not taking the S10 hit. (from a fluff perspective, it makes perfect sense. They're not actually on board the craft, they disembark via a wormhole on the underside of the vehicle. The only thing physically onboard

I took naked wraiths in my last game against BT and they (with D.Lord) survived being assaulted by assault terminators w/emperors champion. I did lose my D.Lord and 1 wraith (plus a wound) but my friend was soooo mad I beat his guys at CC.

And yes, I was DESPERATELY trying to crack open the LR to get the assault on the terminators...doom scythe, doomsday ark, some gauss pot-shots, a heavy gauss cannon shot....NONE of it pen'd the LR. So I had to assault it with my wraiths+d.lord, which promptly destroyed it.

But anyway, those naked wraiths survived 2 turns crossing the board (it was odd deployment), two assault phases with termies, another shooting phase, another assault, and were about to take out another 10 man tac squad if the game hadn't ended. Had 3 wraiths left by the end of the game. I'd say they did fine.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
For those of you new players who have just discovered the Writhing Worldscape C'tan + Orkian combo: do yourselves a favor and look up "TremorCron" to see how to possibly maximize this tactic.
(not as good as it was pre-6th, but that's not to say it doesn't still work).

And regarding Wraith-wing: why would you take ALL of your Wraiths naked? Surely it would be a better idea to give at least 3 of them Whip Coils?

Complete agreement in regards to shot down Night Scythes and the occupants not taking the S10 hit. (from a fluff perspective, it makes perfect sense. They're not actually on board the craft, they disembark via a wormhole on the underside of the vehicle. The only thing physically onboard

I took naked wraiths in my last game against BT and they (with D.Lord) survived being assaulted by assault terminators w/emperors champion. I did lose my D.Lord and 1 wraith (plus a wound) but my friend was soooo mad I beat his guys at CC.

And yes, I was DESPERATELY trying to crack open the LR to get the assault on the terminators...doom scythe, doomsday ark, some gauss pot-shots, a heavy gauss cannon shot....NONE of it pen'd the LR. So I had to assault it with my wraiths+d.lord, which promptly destroyed it.

But anyway, those naked wraiths survived 2 turns crossing the board (it was odd deployment), two assault phases with termies, another shooting phase, another assault, and were about to take out another 10 man tac squad if the game hadn't ended. Had 3 wraiths left by the end of the game. I'd say they did fine.

In 5th edition the 3 whip coil/2 naked/1 particle caster wraith setup was heavily favored where I play due to Wound Allocation Shenanigans. I personally have always done 50% of my wraith units with whip coils as well. Even without WAS they are great pieces of wargear that split up your opponent's initiative steps, which means fewer attacks coming at each initiative, and the wraiths getting to strike before all of the enemy does. All favorable for wraith survival.

As a quick for example - let's say you have 10 assault marines vs 6 wraiths. if they were naked, then all 10 ASMs would swing first, (20 attacks) hit with 10, and cause 5 wounds which would on average result in 1 dead wraith (1.65 failed saves). If you place whip coils on 3 of the wraiths, assuming a regular charge distance 3-5 marines will be in contact with coil wraiths. We'll assume 3, since if we're making the charge those are the only 3 that will count towards coil I-1 anyway. This drops the incoming attacks at I4 to 14, 7 hit, and 3.5 wound (so on average just 1 wound failed) Leaving all 6 wraiths to party and swing back at the marines, before the other attacks (which may not even survive to swing) get to go.

Splitting initiative steps is an amazing resilience factor for a second reason - let's say the wraiths take a wound at I4, well at I1 they can allocate wounds to a different model, potentially spreading around loosely wounded models without wargear manipulation.

All in all I'm a proponent of equipping all wraith squads with 50% whip coils, every game, regardless of opponent.

Oh I know all about why it was favored in fifth. But that doesn't matter now.

Yes I generally agree that it's good to have whip coils in there still but with the subtle changes to assault in 6th edition they're not as necessary as before.

Only reason I didn't take them in that game is because I would have had to sacrifice something I didn't want to sacrifice, so I just left the coils out altogether. Worked out in the end.

I don't see the purpose of giving wraiths a particle caster its just a waste of points and if you want to pop a vehicle its just better to assault it.

Sorry in advance but i just thought of this whilst reading the new chaos dex.I noticed they have alot of toughness 4 characters, dlords with warscythes hit at str7 but if you combine him with nemesor who gives him furious charge wont that be sum instant death goodness??

crayz_d wrote:
Sorry in advance but i just thought of this whilst reading the new chaos dex.I noticed they have alot of toughness 4 characters, dlords with warscythes hit at str7 but if you combine him with nemesor who gives him furious charge wont that be sum instant death goodness??

Yes. In fact most anything that can take a warscythe is Str 5, +2 for the weapon, +1 for FC = 8 str = dead muhreens.

Cant believe i overlooked that little gem!!

Just thought of another one, bit of a differcult one to pull off due to randomness of getting psychics but bare with the idea.

You would need a ally list to get a psycher, probably master level 3 to edge your chances to get the power you need. The power im looking at is enfeeble, combo this with afew tremorteks and the obvious c'tan shard and away you go.

not the best combo but im just tryin to come up with something new.

Has anyone mentioned the party yacht? Royal court take an ark from warriors and goes for a joy ride. There are two versions, the shooty destructek(i sometimes put szeras in here for 6 total Eldritch lance shots) or the assaulty lords, both gain from open top rules.

 Sigvatr wrote:
By joining Trazyn, you also reduce your Wraith's movement by 6'', further hampering their chances to assault. Not to mention that there's no point in putting him in a melee squad when he sucks at melee...

Trazyn sucks at melee? Thats...pretty much all he does, besides score, and not die. He absolutely murders hordes (which augments the Wraiths quite nicely) and has MSS to boot. He's not ideal in challenges (heavily relying on the MSS, and his Empathic Obliterator being effectively nuetralized), but if you're running him with Oby that's not as much of an issue. Fair point on the movement, but if your DSIng them into the middle of the fray that's not as much of an issue. Plus, there certainly isn't anything keeping them glued together. Once your optimum target(s) have been beamed, you're certainly free to split the Overlords up to go munch on some troops while the Wraith jump out and do their thing.

Oh, yes he is. Overlooked that , so disregard the '6's to hit portion of the above. That certainly makes the unit better with the Beamer, and the advice not terrible, so for that i'll apologize. Still not something i'm eager to try out but it would be interesting to see a carnifex take 6 (strength?) tests.

Yeah, like I said, it's pricey, and hard to really get into an army with everything you really want. Still, it's absolutely nasty against most rocks and deaths stars, which are certainly increasing in popularity in many meta's, YMMV as always. Both GK's and the current Chaos Dex in particular are filled with preferable targets.

Bah, screw my internet, I was about to edit the second-last post of mine to "unless he fights vs hordes". The problem is that most of the time, you fight MEQ and vs. MEQ, he is absolutely terrible.

Furthermore, normally, you don't want to let your Wraiths charge hordes as mass of attacks is the only thing that can take them down reliably. Secondly, if you deepstrike them, you will be charged in the enemy turn. Thirdly, you cannot deepstrike them with Trazyn as Trazyn does not have the deepstrike ability.

You effectively reduce the movement speed of your Wraiths by 50% by joining Trazyn. By pulling off that combo, you force Wraiths to take a role they were not meant to be...Wraiths are a mobile cc unit that takes on smaller MEQ / TEQ squads. By joining Trazyn, you essentialy turn them into regular infantry that's going to charge hordes.

Sure, it can work, after all, 40k is heavily based on chance.

But on the other hand, why not let Trazyn join a unit of Lychguard? The are just as fast / slow than Wraiths (with him joined) yet do not force you to remove a Cryptek from the game should Trazyn fall and due to the latter, you got a more resilent defensive, scoring unit.

Furthermore, normally, you don't want to let your Wraiths charge hordes as mass of attacks is the only thing that can take them down reliably. Secondly, if you deepstrike them, you will be charged in the enemy turn. Thirdly, you cannot deepstrike them with Trazyn as Trazyn does not have the deepstrike ability.

If he's with Oby, he can DS all he wants. Which is kind of the whole point of that particularly unit design, all three of those elements (the Trans Beaming Wraiths, The Scoring/Relentless/Horde Killing Trazyn, and the MeQ Killing/DSing/Missle Eating Oby) all cover each other's weaknesses quite well. At a hefty price, but still, it's a very nasty unit.
And you're assuming quite a bit with them "being charged in the enemy turn." Who say's you're DSing them near anything that would even want to charge 6 Wraiths, Trazyn, and Oby? And keep in mind that Trans Beamers can be a little nasty surprise in Overwatch.

The problem is that most of the time, you fight MEQ and vs. MEQ, he is absolutely terrible.

Terrible is pretty vast overstatement. Remember, if he kills just one, he's gonna throw out a nice huge chunk of wounds. He's S5, 3 attacks, and he has MSS. A Warscythe OLord deals 1.67 MeQ wounds on the charge, Trazyn deals .44. However, that roughly every other time he kills one guy, he could easily kill 1 or 2 more do to the Empathic ability. So really, he's going to average out about the same amount of MeQ per turn, it just will be pretty sporadic, like 0, 2, 0, 3, 0, 1 etc... But, again, Wraiths/Oby will shred MeQ, Trazyn's primary contribution to this particular squad is keeping it from being bogged by horde swamps, allowing it to score, and keeping those Beamers relentless. Also, in 6th edition, large squads are getting more and more prevalent. Warrior Blobs, Cultist blobs, IG blobs, and of course Nid and Orc blobs, are all becoming pretty common place. Obviously, as you stated, the bigger the unit, the more chance for Trazyn to shine.

You effectively reduce the movement speed of your Wraiths by 50% by joining Trazyn. By pulling off that combo, you force Wraiths to take a role they were not meant to be...Wraiths are a mobile cc unit that takes on smaller MEQ / TEQ squads. By joining Trazyn, you essentialy turn them into regular infantry that's going to charge hordes.

I'm not sure about "meant to be" (although I agree that is how they are most often used), they do have the Trans Beamers as a gear option. In fact, I think this particular combo is exactly what Ward had in mind when giving them this option. And, you're not forced to do anything. If after you DS the best thing for the Wraiths to do is go off and hunt X while Trazyn and Oby tag team Y...go for it. One thing you're over looking though is, in their primary role, killing MeQ and TeQ as you say, having relentless Trans Beamers is a pretty huge bonus, particularly against TeQ. 33% chance per hit to kill a Term, not even Laz/Plaz can compare to that. Frankly, it's pretty boss, you just have to allow a paradigm shift in how you view the Wraiths (which, honestly, I'm right there with you. If there was someway to give DLords Phaeron I would be all over that gak ).

Sure, it can work, after all, 40k is heavily based on chance.

You're implying that it will only work if you're lucky. That's really not the case. The unit handles itself quite admirably, as it statically should. The real issue is when you face 5th edition IG MSU style armies that don't really have any non tank units that they care about losing all that much. Most armies, particularly out of the last three codexes (GK/Necrons/Chaos), have plenty of optimum targets to point at. Also, again, its pricey. You probably need to get into the 2250 to 2500 range before you have enough overhead to really make it function ideally.

But on the other hand, why not let Trazyn join a unit of Lychguard? The are just as fast / slow than Wraiths (with him joined) yet do not force you to remove a Cryptek from the game should Trazyn fall and due to the latter, you got a more resilent defensive, scoring unit.

Trazyn works best in an army with LG in it, no doubt. Ideally, I want to deploy Trazyn either in a unit like this, or a large Deathmark squad (a build we discussed before). The big reason is I want to take advantage of that Phaeron at some point. The tactic to use is hyper aggresive, drawing a lot of attention and focus onto the unit (and hopefully taking a lot of stuff out as you go), then, If/when Trazyn dies (the first time), he can hop over to the LG unit. As you can see in my original post, the LG unit also has Nemie, theoretically allowing for a situation where both Oby and Trazyn could end up in the LG unit with Nemie. Makes for a fun and interesting little game, whith Overlords hoping around all over the board.

ShadarLogoth wrote:


If he's with Oby, he can DS all he wants. Which is kind of the whole point of that particularly unit design, all three of those elements (the Trans Beaming Wraiths, The Scoring/Relentless/Horde Killing Trazyn, and the MeQ Killing/DSing/Missle Eating Oby) all cover each other's weaknesses quite well. At a hefty price, but still, it's a very nasty unit.

Just to be bit-picky, remember you can't enter the game via DS

And you're assuming quite a bit with them "being charged in the enemy turn." Who say's you're DSing them near anything that would even want to charge 6 Wraiths, Trazyn, and Oby? And keep in mind that Trans Beamers can be a little nasty surprise in Overwatch.

Do I? The average threat range assault-wise is 13'' (6'' movement + an average of 7'' charge distance) thus in order to be save from enemy assaults, you'd have to DS about 15-16'' away from the enemy (bases included)...which would effectly hinder your charge move in the next turn assuming you do not get charged. Trans Beamers in assault are neglible as you can only fire snapshots.

Terrible is pretty vast overstatement. Remember, if he kills just one, he's gonna throw out a nice huge chunk of wounds. He's S5, 3 attacks, and he has MSS. A Warscythe OLord deals 1.67 MeQ wounds on the charge, Trazyn deals .44. However, that roughly every other time he kills one guy, he could easily kill 1 or 2 more do to the Empathic ability.

Overall, that makes him worse than a normal Overlord with a Warscythe regarding the cc result. Not to mention that I'd always take someone more reliable rather than someone relying on luck to be effective.

So really, he's going to average out about the same amount of MeQ per turn, it just will be pretty sporadic, like 0, 2, 0, 3, 0, 1 etc... But, again, Wraiths/Oby will shred MeQ, Trazyn's primary contribution to this particular squad is keeping it from being bogged by horde swamps, allowing it to score, and keeping those Beamers relentless. Also, in 6th edition, large squads are getting more and more prevalent. Warrior Blobs, Cultist blobs, IG blobs, and of course Nid and Orc blobs, are all becoming pretty common place. Obviously, as you stated, the bigger the unit, the more chance for Trazyn to shine.

That's my point though. I never said your way is not going to work, it's just very points-ineffective. You pay so many points just to be able to fire the beams and get nothing in cc against anything but hordes - a unit you should not assault anyway with Wraiths. Assaulting hordes with Necrons is, imo, a pretty bad idea because we have tesla weaponry that excels at taking those out. Necrons are no cc army. Wraiths are a good cc unit, no doubt, but as stated above, they have their use - a supportive use. They are meant to work as support for your shooting units, not the other way around.

In the end...whatever floats your boat. It's one of many ways to run a unit / army. Is it cost-effective? No. It effectively is a deathstar that will attract a lot of fire yet it's scoring which is rare for deathstars.

 Sigvatr wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:


If he's with Oby, he can DS all he wants. Which is kind of the whole point of that particularly unit design, all three of those elements (the Trans Beaming Wraiths, The Scoring/Relentless/Horde Killing Trazyn, and the MeQ Killing/DSing/Missle Eating Oby) all cover each other's weaknesses quite well. At a hefty price, but still, it's a very nasty unit.

Just to be bit-picky, remember you can't enter the game via DS

Just to be picky -
Necron FAQ v1.1:
Q: Can a veil of darkness be used instead of moving onto the board
when a unit arrives from reserve? (p84)
A: Yes.

and the first sentence of the Ghostwalk Mantle tells us that it is a Veil of Darkness.

Woah, thanks for pointing that out

Makes the Veil so awesome, because the way I read it, you don't have to deep strike reserve, you can normal reserve the unit and choose to deep strike them in when the unit arrives. Very tactical.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Makes the Veil so awesome, because the way I read it, you don't have to deep strike reserve, you can normal reserve the unit and choose to deep strike them in when the unit arrives. Very tactical.

Well you're not allowed to put them in deep strike reserve anyway so I guess it's a good thing you can use the veil from off-board.

Point is you have options when coming onto the field.

I actually didn't know you can ghost walk mantle from reserve. Awesome to know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For the next topic of discussion, what do you guys think about the harbinger of eternity? Do you guys think that only the chronometron is good without Imotekh or does it have varied uses?

Do I? The average threat range assault-wise is 13'' (6'' movement + an average of 7'' charge distance) thus in order to be save from enemy assaults, you'd have to DS about 15-16'' away from the enemy (bases included)...which would effectly hinder your charge move in the next turn assuming you do not get charged. Trans Beamers in assault are neglible as you can only fire snapshots.

Sorry, what I really meant was you're assuming that anything would want to assault 6 Wraitsh, Obyron, and Trazyn.

Overall, that makes him worse than a normal Overlord with a Warscythe regarding the cc result. Not to mention that I'd always take someone more reliable rather than someone relying on luck to be effective.

Everything in the game relies on luck. Like, literally everything. The Overlord with the Warscythe is going to whiff sometimes, as is Trazyn. The Overlord with the Warscythe will be a bit more dependable against MeQ and TeQ, but Trazyn will be better against all other troops. So really, the combat prowess between them is really quite close, all things considered. Even giving the Overlord a slight nod against MeQ (and it really is only a slight nod) while recognizing them as very prevalent opponent, Trazyn also scores and doesn't die. The whole package is what makes him worth considering, particularly in a unique unit such as this one.

That's my point though. I never said your way is not going to work, it's just very points-ineffective. You pay so many points just to be able to fire the beams and get nothing in cc against anything but hordes - a unit you should not assault anyway with Wraiths. Assaulting hordes with Necrons is, imo, a pretty bad idea because we have tesla weaponry that excels at taking those out. Necrons are no cc army. Wraiths are a good cc unit, no doubt, but as stated above, they have their use - a supportive use. They are meant to work as support for your shooting units, not the other way around.

I don't know how you can look at a model with MSS and the Empathic Obliterator and keep saying "get nothing in cc against anything but horde." MSS is good against anything but hordes, and the EO is great against hordes. Really, he's average against MeQ, and that's only if he can't MSS a serg or something with decent CC weapon, then he goes from only average to pretty good.

Overall though, it's the way the unit fits together that you seem to be missing. I wouldn't attack Hordes with a normal Wraith unit, Ill grant you that. However, this Wraith unit, with Trazyn and Oby, would kick the crap out of just about any Horde it came across. It's interesting to me that you see Tesla as some hard counter to Hordes and yet disparage Trazyn for being "Luck Based." Few things in the game are as boom and bust as Tesla is.

As far as Necron's not being an army capable of CC, I just completely disagree. They have CC in every single slot (although of course the troop slot takes a bit of finagling), and have access to tools like Viels, strong JI, and Night Fighting. I've been playing a predominantly CC force for a year now (not one with this combo, mind you), and I have yet to come across an army that can out CC my Crons. We'll see what portents this new Chaos Codex brings, but so far I've quite convincingly whitenessed that the "Necrons are not a CC army" meme is a completely false perception, largely revolving around people making way to big of a deal of I2.

In the end...whatever floats your boat. It's one of many ways to run a unit / army. Is it cost-effective? No. It effectively is a deathstar that will attract a lot of fire yet it's scoring which is rare for deathstars.

No doubt. Keep in mind I've said quite repeatedly that the unit is pricey and probably not the most efficient, primarily because the unit will die rather quickly to a concentration of fire power, as any Wriath unit will. Oby can eat some Missles and the like to slightly up their survivablity, they still present such an obvious target it can be difficult to keep them alive past the first Ghostwalk and volley of shots.

Still, in a larger game you can fit them alongside a threat overload concept. And they are a unique and fun unit to wield, which is always worth playing around with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

For the next topic of discussion, what do you guys think about the harbinger of eternity? Do you guys think that only the chronometron is good without Imotekh or does it have varied uses?

Imo, Orikan, and a Lancetek Royal Court are probably the three most often used applications for him. Really any Royal Court is a good place for him, as well as any "Tanked Out" Overlord like Imo, where you're investing in the Semp Weave, Phase Shifter, Res Orb, even a Phylactery gets a bit more interesting in these circumstances.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Makes the Veil so awesome, because the way I read it, you don't have to deep strike reserve, you can normal reserve the unit and choose to deep strike them in when the unit arrives. Very tactical.

And if you have Nemesor Zahndrek in your army, Obyron and friends can Deep Strike on any of your opponent's turns if your opponent brings on anything from reserve.

Sorry, what I really meant was you're assuming that anything would want to assault 6 Wraitsh, Obyron, and Trazyn.

Oh, my bad :/ Assaulting such a unit would be a good idea unless you had defensive grenades. In the latter case, I'd rather get some Overwatch hits in.

The Overlord with the Warscythe is going to whiff sometimes, as is Trazyn. The Overlord with the Warscythe will be a bit more dependable against MeQ and TeQ, but Trazyn will be better against all other troops.

Gotta be careful here. "All other troops" sounds like it would apply to a majority of troops yet the opposite is the case: MEQ/TEQ are the vast majority of enemies you will encounter with Adeptus Astartes and Necrons being the most played army. Not to mention that you'll also be able to damage vehicles with an Overlord whereas Trazyn cannot even scratch them.

So really, the combat prowess between them is really quite close, all things considered. Even giving the Overlord a slight nod against MeQ (and it really is only a slight nod) while recognizing them as very prevalent opponent, Trazyn also scores and doesn't die. The whole package is what makes him worth considering, particularly in a unique unit such as this one.

You pay a huge extra for those abilities though. The "doesn't die" part can be good and bad. While it certainly is good if you do not lose your HQ, you might end up having Trazyn in the back of your army, right in another unit, replacing a viable court member while he suddenly finds himself trapped in a unit he can't do much anymore. I agree with the scoring part, that's a nice ability, especially considerung stuff like Linebreaker.

I don't know how you can look at a model with MSS and the Empathic Obliterator and keep saying "get nothing in cc against anything but horde." MSS is good against anything but hordes, and the EO is great against hordes. Really, he's average against MeQ, and that's only if he can't MSS a serg or something with decent CC weapon, then he goes from only average to pretty good.

My point is not that he isn't good, my point is that he is more expensive and less effective than a cc overlord - against most enemies aka MEQ/TEQ.

Overall though, it's the way the unit fits together that you seem to be missing. I wouldn't attack Hordes with a normal Wraith unit, Ill grant you that. However, this Wraith unit, with Trazyn and Oby, would kick the crap out of just about any Horde it came across. It's interesting to me that you see Tesla as some hard counter to Hordes and yet disparage Trazyn for being "Luck Based." Few things in the game are as boom and bust as Tesla is.

Reliability. That's where I'm at. A Tesla Annihilator deals about 6-7 S7 hits per turn thus it will deal about 6 wounds to any enemy unit and against most hordes, those result in 4-5 dead bodies. Sure, that's less than Trazyn might deal. But you get 2-3 shooting phases before the assault and for Trazyn's points, you could easily fit two Annihilation Barges in. That's 8-10 dead bodies per shooting phase...thus in 2-3 turns, you effectively take a horde unit out.

Trazyn is less reliable than a CC Overlord, that's why I would not take him, not because he is bad (because he isn't). I don't pay so many points for a model that does not even have a mere power weapon!

As far as Necron's not being an army capable of CC, I just completely disagree. They have CC in every single slot (although of course the troop slot takes a bit of finagling), and have access to tools like Viels, strong JI, and Night Fighting. I've been playing a predominantly CC force for a year now (not one with this combo, mind you), and I have yet to come across an army that can out CC my Crons. We'll see what portents this new Chaos Codex brings, but so far I've quite convincingly whitenessed that the "Necrons are not a CC army" meme is a completely false perception, largely revolving around people making way to big of a deal of I2.

You got me wrong there. Necrons *can* be capable of cc. Hell, we got Wraiths! My main point is that they are likely to be more effective when mainly being played as a shooty army with additional melee support.

No doubt. Keep in mind I've said quite repeatedly that the unit is pricey and probably not the most efficient, primarily because the unit will die rather quickly to a concentration of fire power, as any Wriath unit will. Oby can eat some Missles and the like to slightly up their survivablity, they still present such an obvious target it can be difficult to keep them alive past the first Ghostwalk and volley of shots.

Yep. What irritates me the most is why you'd like to cripple a unit of Wraiths to fit Trazyn in - you lower their potential to make them more well-rounded yet a unit of LG would be a better fit, imo, especially considering that Trazyn would be able to stay in melee after he "dies" and you don't lose out on 6'' of movement.

Still, in a larger game you can fit them alongside a threat overload concept. And they are a unique and fun unit to wield, which is always worth playing around with.

Amen to that. I don't want to tell anyone how to play, and I think that nobody can. My main point always resolves around efficiency...because, well, it's pretty clear that you can play the way you want and we would not need a forum to discuss those ideas

People should play just as it's most fun to them, tournaments are a different issue. I myself still play an altered version of the good ol' Necron Phalanx (updated with 2 Ghost Arks) and do not own a single flier...I just can't stand seeing a Necron army with fliers! And I'm not one of these WAAC lamers who need to compensate...ye know, there's a negative corrolation between the amount of fliers you use and your coc...

...hlea.

People should play just as it's most fun to them, tournaments are a different issue. I myself still play an altered version of the good ol' Necron Phalanx (updated with 2 Ghost Arks) and do not own a single flier...I just can't stand seeing a Necron army with fliers! And I'm not one of these WAAC lamers who need to compensate...ye know, there's a negative corrolation between the amount of fliers you use and your coc...

How do you counter Flyers and fast moving cc units approaching your front ranks?

Moreover, a phalanx is not very mobile and Necron weapons usually have short range (24''). So how do you take on nasty (shooty) units in the enemy backfield?

 wuestenfux wrote:

How do you counter Flyers and fast moving cc units approaching your front ranks?

Moreover, a phalanx is not very mobile and Necron weapons usually have short range (24''). So how do you take on nasty (shooty) units in the enemy backfield?

Flyers are usually taken out by my 3 Annihilation Barges, they do a good job at taking them down. Even a single 6 means 3 S7 hits and since most flyers are AV 11/12, that's a good chance to take those things down. Fortunately, nobody in our area got a flyer spam list...I'd most likely be at a loss vs. such a list but hell, who isn't?

The Phalanx isn't very mobile, but it's extremely durable. Its main goal, however, is to attract fire. It's extremely hard to take a blob of 20 Warriors down with shooting as they got 4+ RP, get about 4 new Warriors per turn thanks to the GA and still have their normal 4+. Their main flaw is being charged, but my watchful Wraiths or rather 1 unit of watchful Wraiths will take care of melee attackers. Those guys have to get close enough anyway...my Destrocourt sits in 1 GA and kills everything TEQ with ease. The blob itself is also protected by the GA's positioning and 1 unit of Immortals covers 1 flank.

The point is that you cannot ignore the blob...it's scoring and with Zandrekh, any vehicle is doomed to explode with a chance of almost 100%. And if the squad makes it to a mission marker within terrain....use cover. Warriors in ruins with a 3+ cover save? Hell yeah. (To clarify: we use terrain placement similar to the NOVA rules).

Nasty long-range backyard units usually fall prey to my Wraiths. Just recently faced a unit of 10 Lootaz trying to shoot me apart...and my Wraiths took care of them. I also use a squad of Heavy Destroyers to take care of those pesky template tanks and while the internet community seems to despise them, they still have to let me down. So many Land Raiders have fallen...

Truth be told, I don't take part in GT and I would likely lose...but that's one reason why I prefer smaller local tournaments with 20 or less participants: you don't have to join the arms race of trying to get the latest overpowered stuff. That being said, we got 2 fairly good GK players and those Vindicare Cheeseshooters are major pita. Night Fight helps a lot though.

 Zathras wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Makes the Veil so awesome, because the way I read it, you don't have to deep strike reserve, you can normal reserve the unit and choose to deep strike them in when the unit arrives. Very tactical.

And if you have Nemesor Zahndrek in your army, Obyron and friends can Deep Strike on any of your opponent's turns if your opponent brings on anything from reserve.

Obyron does not have deep strike and can't benefit from that rule.

Sigvatr, thanks for the reply. It makes sense. The phalanx is still viable.

I think I found a way to make Trayzn actually infinite. In order to do this you would need a ghost ark, a unit of warriors with a member of the royal court and of course Trayzn. If trayzn were ever to die he would respawn in the group of warriors and take the place of the court member and the ghost ark would bring back the court with the repair barge rule. The only flaw would be that the unit size of the group of warriors can not exceed its original size, but that shouldn't be much a problem. Rinse and Repeat.

Also, what is the reason you can't use phased reinforcements with a veil of darkness?

 sounddemon wrote:
I think I found a way to make Trayzn actually infinite. In order to do this you would need a ghost ark, a unit of warriors with a member of the royal court and of course Trayzn. If trayzn were ever to die he would respawn in the group of warriors and take the place of the court member and the ghost ark would bring back the court with the repair barge rule. The only flaw would be that the unit size of the group of warriors can not exceed its original size, but that shouldn't be much a problem. Rinse and Repeat.

Also, what is the reason you can't use phased reinforcements with a veil of darkness?

Because the veil of darkness does not grant the deep strike rule. Also, the FAQ disallows it for crypteks joined to deathmarks. Also, Obryon can not go into "deepstrike reserve" due to this.

 Kevin949 wrote:
Because the veil of darkness does not grant the deep strike rule.

From the FAQ:

Q: Can a veil of darkness be used instead of moving onto the board
when a unit arrives from reserve? (p84)
A: Yes.

Given that the veil is a deep strike rule, I think it does work?

 Kevin949 wrote:
Also, the FAQ disallows it for crypteks joined to deathmarks.

Q: Do models from a Royal Court that are attached to a Deathmark Squad benefit from the Hunters from Hyperspace special rule? (p90)
A: Yes.

Q: Can a unit of Deathmarks with an attached model from a Royal Court Deep Strike? (p90)
A: No. Every model in a unit must have the Deep Strike special rule for it to do so.

Seems clear. There may be a debate as to whether the veil of darkness gives deep strike rule? Otherwise it's a Night Scythe tactic.

 Kevin949 wrote:
Also, Obryon can not go into "deepstrike reserve" due to this.

Although presumably he can deep strike on, with his unit, using his own cloak, but can't use someone else's deep strike, such as a deathmark's deep strike ability?

No, he uses his normal movement and supplants the movement rules with the rules for deep striking. This does not give him the deep strike rule and does not allow him to go into deep strike reserves.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Zathras wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Makes the Veil so awesome, because the way I read it, you don't have to deep strike reserve, you can normal reserve the unit and choose to deep strike them in when the unit arrives. Very tactical.

And if you have Nemesor Zahndrek in your army, Obyron and friends can Deep Strike on any of your opponent's turns if your opponent brings on anything from reserve.

Obyron does not have deep strike and can't benefit from that rule.

The Ghostwalk Mantle is a Veil of Darkness, which allows deep strike, so he most definitely can do this.

The only thing I think Kevin949 is arguing is that he can not Deep Strike during the enemy's turn as per Nemsor's reinforcement rule - apologies if I'm wrong.

Which I do agree with as the veil or ghostwalk mantle don't give the deep strike rules explicitly.

Ffyllotek

Oh, I see here. sorry about that. Hmm.. you may be right on that one. You can move as if you had the deep strike rule, and move onto the table from reserve as if you had the deep strike rules, but you aren't a deep strike unit. A Great Point.

Yes, that is all I was getting at.

Do you guys think that an overlord with a CCB is staple in every necron list?

 sounddemon wrote:
Do you guys think that an overlord with a CCB is staple in every necron list?

No, not really.

To be honest, I rarely use the CCB. Only if I have the points to spare but I'd probably rather spend the extra 10 for the annihilation barge.

 Kevin949 wrote:
No, he uses his normal movement and supplants the movement rules with the rules for deep striking. This does not give him the deep strike rule and does not allow him to go into deep strike reserves.

This is incorrect.

Q: Can a veil of darkness be used instead of moving onto the board

when a unit arrives from reserve? (p84)

A: Yes

.

I really like the mobility of the CCB and the protection that the Overlord gets from the chariot, but I find the CCB difficult to use. A lack of a phase shifter makes the Overlord weak to ap 2 weapons and likely to die. How do you guys use your Overlord with CCB at its full potential?

With a Phase Shifter. Also hold in reserve if you don't get turn one. Personally I find it far to vulnerable and prefer my Overlords in Squads if Immortals on board a Nigtscythe.

A dozen tachyon arrows and a triarch stalker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Baronyu wrote:
Some newbie necron questions, figure this is as good a place to ask as any!

Are wraiths only worth taking with a d-lord? If I can only afford 5 of them with only 2 whip coils(that's legal, right?), is it better to spend the points elsewhere?

And how do people usually use their triarch stalker, if anyone even use them? I'm thinking TL heavy gauss cannon as a long range AT and secondary target marking for the army.

Lastly, why do I see people advising others to bring overlord with warscythe even if he's being deployed with a shooting unit? He's still dead if they get assaulted, so wouldn't a staff of light or gauntlet of fire be better for the counter-assault purpose, overwatch and all?

Thanks in advance!

Wraiths are worth taking if you have at least six in your army. If younput a Dlord with them that helps them. Whip coils are the best upgrade for wraiths. Triarch stalkesr aren't worth their points. With only one weapon and being a walker with 11 all arousal and with quantum shielding wont do much. Wrascythes in cc give a +2 strength.

 sounddemon wrote:
Do you guys think that an overlord with a CCB is staple in every necron list?

No, I don't think so.
I battled Plague Marine at the weekend and the DLord plus Wraiths did the work in cc, while the Night Scythes and ABs took the shooting part.
I had a Lord in a CCB, but its too fragile in cc. Next time, I'm taking him out. By the way, I slaughters Chaos badly.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
Do you guys think that an overlord with a CCB is staple in every necron list?

No, I don't think so.
I battled Plague Marine at the weekend and the DLord plus Wraiths did the work in cc, while the Night Scythes and ABs took the shooting part.
I had a Lord in a CCB, but its too fragile in cc. Next time, I'm taking him out. By the way, I slaughters Chaos badly.

I fully agree. The new rules for moving really crippled the CCB. It isn't terrible, but it now is a very expensive unit that has to be in melta range in order to be effective. You will get at max 1 turn of attacking before the vehicle blows up. Not worth taking imo.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
Do you guys think that an overlord with a CCB is staple in every necron list?

No, I don't think so.
I battled Plague Marine at the weekend and the DLord plus Wraiths did the work in cc, while the Night Scythes and ABs took the shooting part.
I had a Lord in a CCB, but its too fragile in cc. Next time, I'm taking him out. By the way, I slaughters Chaos badly.

I fully agree. The new rules for moving really crippled the CCB. It isn't terrible, but it now is a very expensive unit that has to be in melta range in order to be effective. You will get at max 1 turn of attacking before the vehicle blows up. Not worth taking imo.

In fact, its no longer worth taking it.
On the other hand, its a nice model and chariots are rarely seen at 40k battle fields. So it can be fun to play it. But for competitive play, I'd stay away from it. Instead, think about a named character or one or two DLords.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
No, he uses his normal movement and supplants the movement rules with the rules for deep striking. This does not give him the deep strike rule and does not allow him to go into deep strike reserves.

This is incorrect.

Q: Can a veil of darkness be used instead of moving onto the board

when a unit arrives from reserve? (p84)

A: Yes

.

No, it's not incorrect, you're just not understanding what I was actually talking about.

So Triarch Stalkers aren't really worth it then? I know they're force multipliers and can better help take down tougher units by allowing a great volume of shots, so why not take them?

KelCJ wrote:
So Triarch Stalkers aren't really worth it then? I know they're force multipliers and can better help take down tougher units by allowing a great volume of shots, so why not take them?

Most of our shooting already is Twin-Linked, mainly Tesla Annihilators, on flyers or AB alike and Heavy Destroyers already got Preferred Enemy.Furthermore, they really suffer from that slowed open-topped rule. They are worth it if you take Doomsday Arks, but other than that, I'd not take them.

They are mediocre. Not bad, not good either.

In all honesty, Triarch stalkers are good but are overshadowed by cheaper units that provide more for their cost. Deathmarks/HoD do more damage and wipe out units extremely effectively and accordingly. The only use I see with the Triarch stalker is being able to make a foot slogging list's shots TL.

 sounddemon wrote:
In all honesty, Triarch stalkers are good but are overshadowed by cheaper units that provide more for their cost.

The same is true for almost all of our Elites.

I've had great success personally with triarch stalkers.

I'm assuming that when you guys used Stalkers you gave them Heavy Gauss Cannons.

 sounddemon wrote:
I'm assuming that when you guys used Stalkers you gave them Heavy Gauss Cannons.

I have one with that and one with the melta. Typically if I only take one in my list though, I take the TL Heavy gauss.

What do you guys think is the best competitive named HQ? My vote is for Nemesor Zandrekh.

 sounddemon wrote:
What do you guys think is the best competitive named HQ? My vote is for Nemesor Zandrekh.

Imotehk, hands down. That guy is a beast.

 sounddemon wrote:
What do you guys think is the best competitive named HQ? My vote is for Nemesor Zandrekh.

Zahndrekh/Obyron combo as far as Special characters go. Of all the HQs the kitted out Deatroyer Lord is king.

I vote destroyer lord with wraith retinue for sheer killing power.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I vote destroyer lord with wraith retinue for sheer killing power.

He said named

I think they all have a place, but Imo has gotten the most mileage for me thus far. I think Nemesor has proven quite capable in competitive games though, and Trazyn has always intrigued me with his ability to make a large death star (like LG or RC) scoring.

When is it a good time to field Imotekh? I would imagine he would be bested suited against long range armies.

Named

Nemesor>Obyron>trazyn>imotekh>anrakyr

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Named

Nemesor>Obyron>trazyn>imotekh>anrakyr

Really? Don't get me wrong, as I said, I kind of like them all, but Imotekh is just a steal for everything he brings to the table. Granted, you really have to build your list around him, but when you do, man is he nasty.

My only issue with Imotek is the lack of warscythe and MSS, I mean, his lightning and night fighting are pretty good(if unpredictable) but phaeron and blood nanoscarabs are useless., as is gauntlet of fire) Staoof of the destroyer is meh.

You guys have any sucesses with a tesseract labrynth? I wonder if its worth taking on overlord/lord/DL

Imotek would be so much better with just an Orb. His cost at 225pts, might as well be 325 after you pay for the RC lord to babysit him.

I'm starting up necrons for my second army, and was thinking of this list as a good start. I'm not aiming for super competitive (I've got my guard for that), but something that will perform well. I don't want any fliers. They dum.

Necrons 1500pts

-Overlord: Warscythe, Weave, Orb, Shackles
-Tremortek: Crucible
-Warriors x20

-Lancetek
-Warriors x5

-Volttek
-Warriors x9
-Ghost Ark

-Dispairtek: Veil
-Deathmarks x6

-Stalker

-Annihilation Barge

-Annihilation Barge

-Doomsday Ark


Is this a good launching point?

 Exalted Pariah wrote:
My only issue with Imotek is the lack of warscythe and MSS, I mean, his lightning and night fighting are pretty good(if unpredictable) but phaeron and blood nanoscarabs are useless., as is gauntlet of fire) Staoof of the destroyer is meh.

You guys have any sucesses with a tesseract labrynth? I wonder if its worth taking on overlord/lord/DL

Phaeron is the most signficant CC upgrade you can give a foot Lord that will be in a Warrior blob. Much more significant then MSS or WS. Gauntlets are actually better then WS against some targets (Hordes) and are far from useless, in fact couple with challenges and humilating defeat, you'll generally get more wounds towards combat res out of Imo then you would with your normal WS OIord. Combining all that with his incredible resiliency and the fact that lightning alone will give you the damage output of at least an ABarge in most games and he start to realize what a steal he is.

And blood nano is far from useless if you bring Flayed Ones, which if your bringing Imo you really should be considering anyway as they fit perfectly with what he does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Imotek would be so much better with just an Orb. His cost at 225pts, might as well be 325 after you pay for the RC lord to babysit him.

He would be pretty broken if he had a Res Orb on top of what he already has. I actually seldom run him with one, as his one slot almost always gets a chronotek instead (although I do run a Dlord with/res Orb in the list that has been known to hop over to Imo's blob on occasion).

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Phaeron is the most signficant CC upgrade you can give a foot Lord that will be in a Warrior blob. Much more significant then MSS or WS. Gauntlets are actually better then WS against some targets (Hordes) and are far from useless, in fact couple with challenges and humilating defeat, you'll generally get more wounds towards combat res out of Imo then you would with your normal WS OIord. Combining all that with his incredible resiliency and the fact that lightning alone will give you the damage output of at least an ABarge in most games and he start to realize what a steal he is.

And blood nano is far from useless if you bring Flayed Ones, which if your bringing Imo you really should be considering anyway as they fit perfectly with what he does.

Seriously, I *have* to step in here. New players might read the part about Imotekh and be heavily misled.

Phaeron is FAR from being the most significant CC upgrade a blob can get. Zandrekh just makes Imotekh look like an idiot with his updates. Counter-Attack is FAR better than Phaeron and comes at the price of 5 (!) points. More significant than MSS or WS? Not even close. Imotekh will not kill anything in a challenge. He has S5 and no AP which basically means that most of the time, his enemies have a 3+ or better against his 3 attacks. He's going to get like 2 attacks in. 2 Attacks without AP. Any Lord with a Warscythe will just wreck face in melee / a challenge and let's not even start about MSS that clearly are one of the, if not THE best piece of equipment one can get in our codex.

Gauntlets are terrible. You say they do more vs. hordes. Yes. You then assume, though, that you will go in cc with a horde and guess what will happen? You will die. A blob with Imotekh has nothing to kill hordes and is likely to get swept in the very first turn of combat.

You get more wounds in?! See above for Imotekh's offensive potential. You assume that he will actually kill stuff in challenges. That will not happen. Seriously, it won't.

Blood Nano is the most worthless upgrade we can get (after Phaeron) as they improve the by far worst piece of metal garbage we can field. FO are utter trash tier and useless most of the time. The fact that you can't even choose which unit gets hit is just the icing on the cake.

Imotekh can be extremely useful in team battles, he really excels there, but in a normal 1vs1, he is way overpriced. Nemesor Zandrekh is, by far, the best HQ we can field with Obyron as a close second because he allows you to take 4 HQ slots.

Sorry, that's just completely innacurate. Turning the Warriors weapons into Assault 2 will have a much greater impact on the assault phase against most opponents then WS/MSS will. You're basically adding 40 attacks to the equation, that alone is enough to eradicate most hordes, and take a serious chunk out of MeQ. WS is worth a wound or two, and MSS is worth a wound or two every other round.

You're way over estimating the difference between Gauntlets and a WS. Against MeQ on the charge a WS kills 1.67 MeQ. Gauntlets kill .89 (wait, isn't that almost exactly what you need to win a challenge against most vets/champions...I think it is). So basically, if you can kill ONE guy with the template prior to assaulting, the Gauntlets are completely superior until you get to the second round of combat.

Gauntlets are terrible. You say they do more vs. hordes. Yes. You then assume, though, that you will go in cc with a horde and guess what will happen? You will die. A blob with Imotekh has nothing to kill hordes and is likely to get swept in the very first turn of combat.

Sorry, this is just completely wrong. A Warrior blob should always dictate the assault against a Horde and with Phaeron should always win, baring horrible luck. Please tell me the horde unit that will be any more then a trivial amount of resistance once it's eaten 40 shots and a flamer template. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

You get more wounds in?! See above for Imotekh's offensive potential. You assume that he will actually kill stuff in challenges. That will not happen. Seriously, it won't.

He does close to a Wound a turn, unless he's fighting TeQ, in which case they will mostly just bounce off each other, which still can be effective as it keeps a CC monster off your Warriors. You never actually run Imo in 6th edition before have you? And once he kills the guy, he gets an extra d3 wounds towards combat res. So, more often the not, you will double tap/template, assault, challenge, kill (or get them to hide from the assault, just as well), and win the first round of combat.

Blood Nano is the most worthless upgrade we can get (after Phaeron) as they improve the by far worst piece of metal garbage we can field. FO are utter trash tier and useless most of the time. The fact that you can't even choose which unit gets hit is just the icing on the cake.

I guarantee you I've played more games with Flayed Ones then the bulk of Dakka combined, and I know from repeated personal experience that this notion of them is tied into pre-concieved notions with little to know actual experience. I've had several threads on Dakka about them and everytime, without fail, the people who have actually used them regularly have much higher opinions of them then the people who hate the models and have convinced themselves they suck because the believed the press clippings. They're a CC unit that can, point for point, take out TH/SS termies, one of the most feared CC units in the game. If they get running with a DLord they are even nastier. I'm not going to derail this thread, but I find it silly when people who have zero experience with a unit go around telling other people how much a unit is trash.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zandrekh just makes Imotekh look like an idiot with his updates. Counter-Attack is FAR better than Phaeron and comes at the price of 5 (!) points. Nemesor Zandrekh is, by far, the best HQ we can field with Obyron as a close second because he allows you to take 4 HQ slots.

4? More like 3....but fair point about Nemie, I certainly never said he was a bad deal. However, if you add up Imo's buffs, he's basically paying 30 points for the Staff, Lighniting, Night Fighting, Scarabs, and extra d3 from combat res. Considering the lighting alone is easily worth 90 (the price of an ABarge), I would say Imo is an even bigger steal the Nemie, although more restricted in the type of army he can be maximized in (as he does nerf your shooting as well).

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Sorry, that's just completely innacurate. Turning the Warriors weapons into Assault 2 will have a much greater impact on the assault phase against most opponents then WS/MSS will. You're basically adding 40 attacks to the equation, that alone is enough to eradicate most hordes, and take a serious chunk out of MeQ. WS is worth a wound or two, and MSS is worth a wound or two every other round.

Blob of 20 Warriors with Counter-Attack and a Res-Orb. Enemy is in assault range, you move 12'' away, rapid fire 40 shots + 3 additional AP3 shots with Zandrekh's staff of light. Enemy charges the next turn and gets another volley of 40 shots at him, with Snap Fire in mind resulting in 6-7 additional hits. Add in another Cryptek, e.g. Harbinger of the Storm w/ Lightning Field, as you greatly save points compared to taking Imotekh. Imotekh got nothing on that.

You're way over estimating the difference between Gauntlets and a WS. Against MeQ on the charge a WS kills 1.67 MeQ. Gauntlets kill .89 (wait, isn't that almost exactly what you need to win a challenge against most vets/champions...I think it is). So basically, if you can kill ONE guy with the template prior to assaulting, the Gauntlets are completely superior until you get to the second round of combat.

You got a major flaw in your argumentation : overwatch wounds do not count towards combat resolution so all that matters is the actual combat result - and Warscythes far, far outshine the Gauntlets here. More damage, more versatile, and, most of all, AP1. And hey, if you want to be offensive: Furios Charge. Suddenly, you ID everything with T4.

Sorry, this is just completely wrong. A Warrior blob should always dictate the assault against a Horde and with Phaeron should always win, baring horrible luck. Please tell me the horde unit that will be any more then a trivial amount of resistance once it's eaten 40 shots and a flamer template. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Vacuum. 20 Warriors with a 4+ save and 5+ RP. Unless you back them up with 2 GA, your blob will never make it to the enemy in one piece. I play a Phalanx army at tournaments and you *will* get shot at. Imotekh does absolutely nothing for survivability bar night fighting - and you have to be lucky with that. Not to mention you cripple your own shooting.

He does close to a Wound a turn, unless he's fighting TeQ, in which case they will mostly just bounce off each other, which still can be effective as it keeps a CC monster off your Warriors. You never actually run Imo in 6th edition before have you? And once he kills the guy, he gets an extra d3 wounds towards combat res. So, more often the not, you will double tap/template, assault, challenge, kill (or get them to hide from the assault, just as well), and win the first round of combat.

I run Imotekh in every team tournament. It's a no-brainer. You haven't played against that many good opponents yet I assume? Who would accept a challenge against Imotekh with someone who doesn't kill him? If you only have a normal sergeant, you can just deny the challenge and let the hits bounce off your normal squad members. Against pretty much most other HQs, Imotekh is terrible as he lacks AP weapons while most others have those. I don't get why GW decided to put this special rule on a character that isn't good at melee. Meh.

Blood Nano is the most worthless upgrade we can get (after Phaeron) as they improve the by far worst piece of metal garbage we can field. FO are utter trash tier and useless most of the time. The fact that you can't even choose which unit gets hit is just the icing on the cake.

I guarantee you I've played more games with Flayed Ones then the bulk of Dakka combined, and I know from repeated personal experience that this notion of them is tied into pre-concieved notions with little to know actual experience. I've had several threads on Dakka about them and everytime, without fail, the people who have actually used them regularly have much higher opinions of them then the people who hate the models and have convinced themselves they suck because the believed the press clippings. They're a CC unit that can, point for point, take out TH/SS termies, one of the most feared CC units in the game. If they get running with a DLord they are even nastier. I'm not going to derail this thread, but I find it silly when people who have zero experience with a unit go around telling other people how much a unit is trash.

Point me to a successful tournament list that uses FO. Much appreciated.

4? More like 3....but fair point about Nemie, I certainly never said he was a bad deal. However, if you add up Imo's buffs, he's basically paying 30 points for the Staff, Lighniting, Night Fighting, Scarabs, and extra d3 from combat res. Considering the lighting alone is easily worth 90 (the price of an ABarge), I would say Imo is an even bigger steal the Nemie, although more restricted in the type of army he can be maximized in (as he does nerf your shooting as well).

Nah, 4 slots

1. Nemesor Zandrekh
2. Vargard Obyron
3. Royal Court
4. another HQ of your choice, e.g. Destroyer Lord to go with your Wraiths

Hmm...I want to clarify again: Imotekh is not bad. Not at all. I always use him in team tournaments as his lightnings are just ridiculous vs. two enemies. In a regular match, he just struggles proving his worth. 225 points is a LOT and he cannot make up for the high cost, especially not with HQ like Zandrekh who are better in any regard, take in Obyron and Imotekh can only cry in a dark corner and write sad robot poems

/e: Meh, my posts sounds rather hostile. It's not intended to do, just to clarfiy

Big Z and Obyron make a good team but just too darn expensive. Big Z on his own is good but where do you put him if you don't have big squads?

As named goes I will go with Imotekh. Just about fit him into 1850.

Has anyone tried to utilize the Night Vision rules that Nemesor gives coupled with a Imhotek list?

So everyone has night fighting except perhaps the doomsday ark which can sit on the table edge and take advantage of their great range and now negates the shrouding/stealth issues of Night Fighting. I haven't tried it yet, as it seems like a lot of points to chuckle when i fire my doosday, but it also protects that thing so well... since it'll rarely have Jink.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Has anyone tried to utilize the Night Vision rules that Nemesor gives coupled with a Imhotek list?

So everyone has night fighting except perhaps the doomsday ark which can sit on the table edge and take advantage of their great range and now negates the shrouding/stealth issues of Night Fighting. I haven't tried it yet, as it seems like a lot of points to chuckle when i fire my doosday, but it also protects that thing so well... since it'll rarely have Jink.

Nemesor only gives it to one unit for one turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
What do you guys think is the best competitive named HQ? My vote is for Nemesor Zandrekh.

Zahndrekh/Obyron combo as far as Special characters go. Of all the HQs the kitted out Deatroyer Lord is king.

Dlord isn't king, no invul save means ap2/1 will still wreck his face hard, unlike a number of the named Overlords and the standard overlord that all have or can have invuls. Yes, he's a very good HQ, but not when he's on his own.

 Kevin949 wrote:
Nemesor only gives it to one unit for one turn.

Yes. I am aware. Has anyone tried this?

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
Nemesor only gives it to one unit for one turn.

Yes. I am aware. Has anyone tried this?

Oops, sorry, misinterpreted your post...I thought you said everyone has nightvision except perhaps...

My bad. Man, I really need to wake up!

But ya, I've tried it out once. It's very expensive to do, but it's nice for things with a long range or higher AP, such as you said the DD Ark or perhaps Harbingers of Destruction. Otherwise it's very niche and may very well only be useful for 1 turn. Granted, Nemesor is never "useless".

I have been using Nemesor mainly for the Tank Hunters rule. I have found Vendettas difficult enough to get rid of that throwing TH on a Scythe or a Quad Gun suddenly means that the Vendetta is in trouble.

I have also used a 15 man warrior unit with tank hunters to bring down a Land raider. Tank Hunter on Gauss weapons is almost OP against anything with an AV.

Now that I am thinking about Chaos Marines a bit.. I'm thinking that in more expensive games... Imhotek could be awesome at allowing my marines to close the gap. hmmm.... lightening would hit my allied units too though right?

 Gangrel767 wrote:
I have been using Nemesor mainly for the Tank Hunters rule. I have found Vendettas difficult enough to get rid of that throwing TH on a Scythe or a Quad Gun suddenly means that the Vendetta is in trouble.

I have also used a 15 man warrior unit with tank hunters to bring down a Land raider. Tank Hunter on Gauss weapons is almost OP against anything with an AV.

Now that I am thinking about Chaos Marines a bit.. I'm thinking that in more expensive games... Imhotek could be awesome at allowing my marines to close the gap. hmmm.... lightening would hit my allied units too though right?

Ya, tank hunter on a warrior blob is disgusting!

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Has anyone tried to utilize the Night Vision rules that Nemesor gives coupled with a Imhotek list?

So everyone has night fighting except perhaps the doomsday ark which can sit on the table edge and take advantage of their great range and now negates the shrouding/stealth issues of Night Fighting. I haven't tried it yet, as it seems like a lot of points to chuckle when i fire my doosday, but it also protects that thing so well... since it'll rarely have Jink.

Nemesor only gives it to one unit for one turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
What do you guys think is the best competitive named HQ? My vote is for Nemesor Zandrekh.

Zahndrekh/Obyron combo as far as Special characters go. Of all the HQs the kitted out Deatroyer Lord is king.

Dlord isn't king, no invul save means ap2/1 will still wreck his face hard, unlike a number of the named Overlords and the standard overlord that all have or can have invuls. Yes, he's a very good HQ, but not when he's on his own.

I didn't realize you ran a D. Lord around by himself. You are really losing out. Try taking a look at some tactics on running him with Wraiths or scarabs.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I didn't realize you ran a D. Lord around by himself. You are really losing out. Try taking a look at some tactics on running him with Wraiths or scarabs.

Yes, he needs to be protected too. I usually have him with a unit of wraiths, but I have put him in a unit of one wraith before (cheaper than the phase shifter upgrade on an OL, and the same cost of you give him whip coils). This gives you a tiny, very easy to hide unit, with 5 wounds, a unit toughness of 6, and of course a 2+ 3++ save. This is a great way to escort that D.Lord, especially in small point value battles.... and with the whip coils dude, it really mitigates his low Initiative for a low premium.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Has anyone tried to utilize the Night Vision rules that Nemesor gives coupled with a Imhotek list?

So everyone has night fighting except perhaps the doomsday ark which can sit on the table edge and take advantage of their great range and now negates the shrouding/stealth issues of Night Fighting. I haven't tried it yet, as it seems like a lot of points to chuckle when i fire my doosday, but it also protects that thing so well... since it'll rarely have Jink.

Nemesor only gives it to one unit for one turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
What do you guys think is the best competitive named HQ? My vote is for Nemesor Zandrekh.

Zahndrekh/Obyron combo as far as Special characters go. Of all the HQs the kitted out Deatroyer Lord is king.

Dlord isn't king, no invul save means ap2/1 will still wreck his face hard, unlike a number of the named Overlords and the standard overlord that all have or can have invuls. Yes, he's a very good HQ, but not when he's on his own.

I didn't realize you ran a D. Lord around by himself. You are really losing out. Try taking a look at some tactics on running him with Wraiths or scarabs.

Who said I did? But in a straight comparison between him and the other HQ choices (either just in the necron dex or in the entire game) he's not the best. Great, but not the best.

Also, how about you stop assuming or inserting things that aren't said.

When do you guys think is the right time to give a unit stealth or hit and run when fielding Zandrekh.

Hit and Run is a waste as I2 is too unreliable. I like to give my Warrior blob stealth when they cannot be charged and sit in the ruins in the mid of the table.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Hit and Run is a waste as I2 is too unreliable. I like to give my Warrior blob stealth when they cannot be charged and sit in the ruins in the mid of the table.

I agree hit and run is unreliable. I prefer giving counter attack to a group of warriors and with over watch, warriors can surprisingly do well in combat.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Hit and Run is a waste as I2 is too unreliable. I like to give my Warrior blob stealth when they cannot be charged and sit in the ruins in the mid of the table.

It's good for c'tan at least.

I usually give my destruc-teks stealth and plop them somewhere with a good view and minimal need for movement.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Hit and Run is a waste as I2 is too unreliable. I like to give my Warrior blob stealth when they cannot be charged and sit in the ruins in the mid of the table.

It's good for c'tan at least.

I usually give my destruc-teks stealth and plop them somewhere with a good view and minimal need for movement.

This, pretty much. Destrocourt with a 3+ re-rollable cover save is hilarious.

The way I have been using stealth is by giving it to the CCB and with jink you get a +4 cover save or a +3 jink if you move flat out. Pretty niceski.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 McGibs wrote:
I'm starting up necrons for my second army, and was thinking of this list as a good start. I'm not aiming for super competitive (I've got my guard for that), but something that will perform well. I don't want any fliers. They dum.

Necrons 1500pts

-Overlord: Warscythe, Weave, Orb, Shackles
-Tremortek: Crucible
-Warriors x20

-Lancetek
-Warriors x5

-Volttek
-Warriors x9
-Ghost Ark

-Dispairtek: Veil
-Deathmarks x6

-Stalker

-Annihilation Barge

-Annihilation Barge

-Doomsday Ark


Is this a good launching point?

For a starting army list, its pretty good. I would suggest taking a doom scythe over the doomsday ark. Most people despise the tremortek but I think it has potential. I'm not much of a fan of the stalker but in no way is it bad. I would also suggest replacing the stalker with wraiths for some close combat units. Wraiths are exceptionally good at tar pitting units and killing msu.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Has anyone tried to utilize the Night Vision rules that Nemesor gives coupled with a Imhotek list?

So everyone has night fighting except perhaps the doomsday ark which can sit on the table edge and take advantage of their great range and now negates the shrouding/stealth issues of Night Fighting. I haven't tried it yet, as it seems like a lot of points to chuckle when i fire my doosday, but it also protects that thing so well... since it'll rarely have Jink.

Nemesor only gives it to one unit for one turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
What do you guys think is the best competitive named HQ? My vote is for Nemesor Zandrekh.

Zahndrekh/Obyron combo as far as Special characters go. Of all the HQs the kitted out Deatroyer Lord is king.

Dlord isn't king, no invul save means ap2/1 will still wreck his face hard, unlike a number of the named Overlords and the standard overlord that all have or can have invuls. Yes, he's a very good HQ, but not when he's on his own.

I didn't realize you ran a D. Lord around by himself. You are really losing out. Try taking a look at some tactics on running him with Wraiths or scarabs.

Who said I did? But in a straight comparison between him and the other HQ choices (either just in the necron dex or in the entire game) he's not the best. Great, but not the best.

Also, how about you stop assuming or inserting things that aren't said.

And how about you pay attention and take note of sarcasm. The previous poster didn't ask for a comparison in a vacum of HQs. Quit assuming or inserting things that aren't said. Of all the HQs, the D. lord with a squad of Wraiths is hands down the best HQ, there is no contest.

Oh and you are still wrong about Veil units in reserve with Zahndrek's phased reinforcement rule, it's totally legal.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
And how about you pay attention and take note of sarcasm. The previous poster didn't ask for a comparison in a vacum of HQs. Quit assuming or inserting things that aren't said. Of all the HQs, the D. lord with a squad of Wraiths is hands down the best HQ, there is no contest.

You have to be careful with sarcasm on the internet. I make the same mistake and most of the time, it translates to someone being hostile. I also assumed you were being hostile after reading your previous post and the comment wasn't even aimed at me. Now further mocking him does not really help your case. If you want to prove him wrong, quote the FAQ / rules.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
And how about you pay attention and take note of sarcasm. The previous poster didn't ask for a comparison in a vacum of HQs. Quit assuming or inserting things that aren't said. Of all the HQs, the D. lord with a squad of Wraiths is hands down the best HQ, there is no contest.

Oh and you are still wrong about Veil units in reserve with Zahndrek's phased reinforcement rule, it's totally legal.

He asked "Which do you think is the best named HQ?" That pretty much tells me - Vacuum. He didn't ask what are the best strategies with named HQ's, or what is the best unit to run Named HQ's in. Anyway, try a sarcasm tag next time if you're being sarcastic.

And no, it's totally not because a unit in reserve can only actually deep strike in if they're in deep strike reserve. While you are allowed to use the veil/ghostwalk from reserves, you're not entering via deep strike. There actually is a difference between using the rules for something and actually having the rule for the same thing.

Remember how in the last codex there were units that "moved like jetbikes" but they weren't actually jetbikes so they still got affected by things that jetbikes would avoid and the like? It's like they, Veils and Ghostwalk "move like deep strike" instead of actually having the deep strike rule.

No you made an assumption that wasn't there and accused me of doing it. No vacuum was implied or even relevant.

There is no such thing as deep strike reserves. The BrB suggests that you may refer to units arriving via deep strike as being in deep strike reserves or that some rules may reference Deep Strike reserves. This is used to separate units arriving by separate means such as out flank or regular reserves. However, you must designate how a unit is arriving from reserve when you place them there and therefore if you intend to bring a unit in from reserve via a VoD using the Deep Strike rules, you must declare that during deployment and at that point the unit becomes eligible to arrive via Phased Reinforcements. The FAQ allows this for a unit being transported from reserve via the VoD. Zahndrek's rule states any unit eligible to arrive via Deep strike may do so during your opponents turn. So is the VoD unit eligible? Yes, so it is therefore able to arrive using phased reinforcements.

I'd suggest taking this particular discussion to YMDC

 NecronLord3 wrote:
No you made an assumption that wasn't there and accused me of doing it. No vacuum was implied or even relevant.

There is no such thing as deep strike reserves. The BrB suggests that you may refer to units arriving via deep strike as being in deep strike reserves or that some rules may reference Deep Strike reserves. This is used to separate units arriving by separate means such as out flank or regular reserves. However, you must designate how a unit is arriving from reserve when you place them there and therefore if you intend to bring a unit in from reserve via a VoD using the Deep Strike rules, you must declare that during deployment and at that point the unit becomes eligible to arrive via Phased Reinforcements. The FAQ allows this for a unit being transported from reserve via the VoD. Zahndrek's rule states any unit eligible to arrive via Deep strike may do so during your opponents turn. So is the VoD unit eligible? Yes, so it is therefore able to arrive using phased reinforcements.

This is my last post on this, but no you do not have to declare they're using the veil/ghostwalk until the beginning of the units movement phase. You can tell your opponent your intention ahead of time but you're simply giving away your strategy at that point. But telling your opponent they're using the veil to come on from reserve does not mean they are deep striking and will never mean they are deep striking. Those models do not have the deep strike rule and they do not abide by the deep strike clauses in the beginning of the rule.

Yes, I"ll concede the point that Nemesors' rule does only say "reserves" but it does say for units that are able to deep strike, which crypteks and obyron do not do. They move using the deep strike rules for placement. That is it, nothing more and nothing less. I'm sorry you can't see this and I feel bad for your opponents that you may use this tactic against if they allow it.

Sigvatr - I'd agree with you about the YMDC thing but it is still somewhat relevant to necron tactica. Either way, I'm done discussing the topic with this guy.

Can anyone explain the point of the Aeonstave ccw?

 sounddemon wrote:
Can anyone explain the point of the Aeonstave ccw?

To lead the Flayed Ones with, obviously
(at the bottom of the useless pile).


But seriously, by the time you're finally able to wound something with it, whatever it was would probably be dead anyway, so the debuff will practically be useless... unless it's one of those obnoxious named characters that have a tendency to come back from the dead (then it will finally come in handy, but that's a very conditional circumstance, so not really worth considering).
Really, seeing as how the Chronometron was so awesome in the first place, they had to give its bearer something lame to balance it out with, lest they make the Harbinger of Eternity too OP.

 skoffs wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
Can anyone explain the point of the Aeonstave ccw?

To lead the Flayed Ones with, obviously
(at the bottom of the useless pile).


But seriously, by the time you're finally able to wound something with it, whatever it was would probably be dead anyway, so the debuff will practically be useless... unless it's one of those obnoxious named characters that have a tendency to come back from the dead (then it will finally come in handy, but that's a very conditional circumstance, so not really worth considering).
Really, seeing as how the Chronometron was so awesome in the first place, they had to give its bearer something lame to balance it out with, lest they make the Harbinger of Eternity too OP.

Lol, I entirely agree. Chronometron would be too strong without some form of balance. As for the timesplinter cloak, I would imagine that it has potential but for the points its not worth it.

Timesplinter Cloak's really just there to eat AP1/2 thrown at the unit so your Overlord/Imotekh doesn't have to risk himself (unit shield. just make sure you have him at the front at all times)

 Kevin949 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
No you made an assumption that wasn't there and accused me of doing it. No vacuum was implied or even relevant.

There is no such thing as deep strike reserves. The BrB suggests that you may refer to units arriving via deep strike as being in deep strike reserves or that some rules may reference Deep Strike reserves. This is used to separate units arriving by separate means such as out flank or regular reserves. However, you must designate how a unit is arriving from reserve when you place them there and therefore if you intend to bring a unit in from reserve via a VoD using the Deep Strike rules, you must declare that during deployment and at that point the unit becomes eligible to arrive via Phased Reinforcements. The FAQ allows this for a unit being transported from reserve via the VoD. Zahndrek's rule states any unit eligible to arrive via Deep strike may do so during your opponents turn. So is the VoD unit eligible? Yes, so it is therefore able to arrive using phased reinforcements.

This is my last post on this, but no you do not have to declare they're using the veil/ghostwalk until the beginning of the units movement phase. You can tell your opponent your intention ahead of time but you're simply giving away your strategy at that point. But telling your opponent they're using the veil to come on from reserve does not mean they are deep striking and will never mean they are deep striking. Those models do not have the deep strike rule and they do not abide by the deep strike clauses in the beginning of the rule.

Yes, I"ll concede the point that Nemesors' rule does only say "reserves" but it does say for units that are able to deep strike, which crypteks and obyron do not do. They move using the deep strike rules for placement. That is it, nothing more and nothing less. I'm sorry you can't see this and I feel bad for your opponents that you may use this tactic against if they allow it.

Sigvatr - I'd agree with you about the YMDC thing but it is still somewhat relevant to necron tactica. Either way, I'm done discussing the topic with this guy.

Entirely incorrect , FAQ clarified that. And the BRB makes it very clear that you must state your intentions to your opponent when placing a unit in reserve.

How about Necrons and Fortifications?
Does anyone run any?

I'd assume a ADL with Comms Relay would be pretty popular, what with Flyer spam.

How about the Skyshield?
I was reading that other thread about how "godly" the things were supposed to be.
Someone mentioned sticking a couple of Doomsday Arks (with repair Spyders for support) up there and putting up the shields to give them an elevated firing platform with a 4++.
That looked pretty tempting.
Only thing I couldn't figure out was how to actually go about getting the DAs up there in the first place...

Another thing I was considering was a group of Heavy Destroyers + a Skyshield.
-Place it fairly near the center of the table (while still on your half, obviously).
-Deep strike the Destroyers on with no scatter.
-Put the shields up at the beginning of your next turn.
-Enjoy taking pot shots at everything while relatively safe behind your 50/50 invulnerable save (which Destroyers desperately NEED)

Apart from those, how about the Bastion?
Would anyone even consider running that thing with 'Crons?

I've been using the ADL. It is a very nice bunker to have near an objective and to give a troop choice a 4+ cover. The comm relay, is a waste of points in 6th as units arriving is easier than in previous editions. If you do have an opponent who is running some reserve modifiers regularly reduce you reserve units or bring Orikan for rerolls. The quad gun is just a choice multipurpose option that works well against flyers, units arriving from reserve and just provides that long range support that Necrons, being a ranged weapon army, are sadly lacking in.

As I regularly bring 7 fliers to the table having a re-roll that only costs 20pts is a bargain and potentially a life saver. Also doesn't use an HQ slot. Sure reserves come in easier anyway but when you absolutely have to deliver your contents (and thus the alpha strike) this is what I would use. My list is meant to roll on as one to cripple the enemy and if that doesn't happen I'm left vulnerable in places. A total 70pt investment that is cheap, can't be killed and hard to remove my presence from fits the bill perfectly.

 Lukus83 wrote:
As I regularly bring 7 fliers to the table having a re-roll that only costs 20pts is a bargain and potentially a life saver. Also doesn't use an HQ slot. Sure reserves come in easier anyway but when you absolutely have to deliver your contents (and thus the alpha strike) this is what I would use. My list is meant to roll on as one to cripple the enemy and if that doesn't happen I'm left vulnerable in places. A total 70pt investment that is cheap, can't be killed and hard to remove my presence from fits the bill perfectly.

Then I'm assuming the Skyshield would do squat for you, right?

 skoffs wrote:
How about Necrons and Fortifications?
Does anyone run any?

I'd assume a ADL with Comms Relay would be pretty popular, what with Flyer spam.

Would anyone even consider running that thing with 'Crons?

Lamecrons should always run one of these to get their flyers on the field asap.

I occasionally run an ADL with my Destrocourt, finally gives that Chronotek a weapon he can make use of

I can see the Skyshield doing great things for a gunline. IG get the most benefit from it I think, though it would also do nice things for a DD Ark or two. Haven't tested it out personally, just an opinion.

However I have had experience with my fliers and Comms Relay. When it works properly it's just beautiful.

Ok, so, let's say we want to try the 2x Doomsday Arks on top of a Skyshield idea.
How would we get them up there?
(they WOULD be able to get up there, wouldn't they?)

Also, you think it'd be possible to fit a Stalker up there, too?
(never actually seen one to compare dimensions, so I'm not altogether sure)

Well sky shield can be be deployed in your deployment zone. And you can deploy friendllies into fortifications so your DD arks can start on it. Less there being a vehicle restriction to deployment in fortifications that I don't know about. Also skimmers move over terrain and end in it just like anything else and I think there was a special rule for vehicles to ignore the difficult terrain test for the sky shield, though I don't have the BrB with me at the moment.. I also don't own a skyshield so if it is taller than 6" you may have to flatout to have a good position on the platform.

What is the best way to use the overlord? What have you found to be the most effective?

I

I like to use the Overlord to lead a squad of Immortals in a Nightscythe. Trick him out with MSS, Warscythe, SW, and a Phase Shifter.

I simply use mine to unlock Courts. They can be used as a nice counter assault unit what with all their special abilities, but I personally would just rather unlock access to more models (Crypteks specifically).

I use my Overlord on a CCB w/scythe, MSS, phylactery and Phase shifter. He flat-outs first turn to draw fire and charge the enemy line/important targets. My attack him, thinking he's my warlord(even though I tell them otherwise) so my DL and wraiths can move in for the kill

curious but what do you guys think is better, 20 man blocks of warriors or like 10 man squads of immortals? Which is the better troop choices? or something inbetween? (I'd probably use gauss for both)

was thinking of some sort of immortals spam list but not really sure how viable it'd be. Other things in the list would be d.lord (weave + MSS) + wraiths and doomscythes along with some number of lance teks. Throw down an annhiliation barge and some left over points for night scythes.

 sudojoe wrote:
curious but what do you guys think is better, 20 man blocks of warriors or like 10 man squads of immortals? Which is the better troop choices? or something inbetween? (I'd probably use gauss for both)

was thinking of some sort of immortals spam list but not really sure how viable it'd be. Other things in the list would be d.lord (weave + MSS) + wraiths and doomscythes along with some number of lance teks. Throw down an annhiliation barge and some left over points for night scythes.

If you are taking Gauss weapons on both, Warriors are far better than immortals. The +1 point of strength and 3+ armour is more than outweighed by the shear number of shots that warriors can put out. That being said, Tesla is generally considered to be the better option on immortals as it's able to put out more wounds on anything with power armour or better.

RegalPhantom wrote:

 sudojoe wrote:
curious but what do you guys think is better, 20 man blocks of warriors or like 10 man squads of immortals? Which is the better troop choices? or something inbetween? (I'd probably use gauss for both)

was thinking of some sort of immortals spam list but not really sure how viable it'd be. Other things in the list would be d.lord (weave + MSS) + wraiths and doomscythes along with some number of lance teks. Throw down an annhiliation barge and some left over points for night scythes.

If you are taking Gauss weapons on both, Warriors are far better than immortals. The +1 point of strength and 3+ armour is more than outweighed by the shear number of shots that warriors can put out. That being said, Tesla is generally considered to be the better option on immortals as it's able to put out more wounds on anything with power armour or better.

Only at +12''. Gauss is superior at <= 12''.

 sudojoe wrote:
curious but what do you guys think is better, 20 man blocks of warriors or like 10 man squads of immortals? Which is the better troop choices? or something inbetween? (I'd probably use gauss for both)

was thinking of some sort of immortals spam list but not really sure how viable it'd be. Other things in the list would be d.lord (weave + MSS) + wraiths and doomscythes along with some number of lance teks. Throw down an annhiliation barge and some left over points for night scythes.

I like to have both. I use my warriors so that I can keep a Ghost Ark around which either draws fire, works as an agmented gun platform for the Warriors or is able to repair my warriors which I like to camp on my closes objective. I prefer the Immortals for use as a strike squad and body guard for my lord, as there S5 gun is way better than Gauss Flayers. My rule of thumb is if you are going to have a squad of 10 run Immortals, if you are going to run multiple small squads run Warriors, or obviously if you want a blob squad of 10+ you have to go with Warriors.

What is Necrons weakest matchup?

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I like to use the Overlord to lead a squad of Immortals in a Nightscythe. Trick him out with MSS, Warscythe, SW, and a Phase Shifter.

Yes

I love orb Overlord with Immortals in Nightscythes. VERY mobile tough unit. Super phenomenal for low risk scoring unit delivery into your opponent's backfield.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sounddemon wrote:
What is Necrons weakest matchup?

While I HATE "List v. List" comparisons (because it's a game of "Player v. Player"), horde Orks tend to give me the most trouble because it is very tough to kill 120-180 greenskins before they hit you.

Played a Khorn army with my heavily close combat oriented Crons over the weekend and was really proud of the way my dudes out CC'ed one of the better CC armies in the game. Granted, after getting the +1 save for his Demon Prince (who had taken armor and now had a 2+ save) my DLord one shot the poor bastard with a Tachyon Arrow to the face. I'm pretty sure I would have beat him anyway but that made it a route.

I continue to love the DLord is my MVP. I run him SW/MSS/RO standard, although I'm seriously considering taking the TA more often now. I also run a near full unit of Triarch Praetorians, a full Warrior blob with Imo and a Chronotek, and a full squad of Flayed Ones, as well as a 6x3WhipCoil Wraith squad. It gives the DLord 3 squads (plus the Wraiths, though I prefer not too as they don't get RO love) to hop around too and spread PE/RO love as needed. It's a really fun and flexible army, and quite effective. Also, with the CC focus, I don't suffer much from Imo's NF on my turn.

I've been kind of thinking of necrons from an anti-necron point of view as we already have 3-4 necron players and more people are thinking of joining the crowd as people hate to lose especially given that the CSM codex doesn't seem that powerful but just fun.

Already recognize that flier vs flier is mostly who comes on second but thinking from the infantry side of things.

Guess if everyone's recommending warrior blocks, would then that make gauss immortals better cause of AP4 to be the counter "meta" ?

Re Obyron... is there any scope in having him with a shard, jumping across the battle, either on his own or with Nemesor, and having him warp the shard into enemy lines, and using two shooting attacks BEL?

Obyron can't join the C'tan as it is always a single model unit and not an IC. Only way to move it around like that is through a Monolith portal. But that is like Minimum 4 turns into the game for it to be able to assault. Doesn't work at all.

Personally I can't get enough of the Annihilation Barge, I ran 3 in 5th and love the thing and now in 6th its even better. Reliable anti-flyer, amazing anti-infantry and good anti-light tank the unit is bargain I can't see a time I won't field one.

My biggest issue atm is trying how to field a Necron Overlord, the CCB isn't as good as it used to be, though used wisely it can still be a great unit. I'd like to be able to use a Royal Court but I don't want to pay the Overlord tax since my go to HQ is the Destroyer Lord and was thinking whats the best use of a Footslogging Overlord.
In 1K5 games I have all my troops in Night Scythes (only 3 as taking any more in counter productive and lets face it, annoying for your opponent) and they only get out to claim objectives or some Rapid fire death. So what benefit or than a very expensive melee deterrent/ unit buff could a Overlord bring?

Without wargear an Overlord serves no purpose. He really is just 90pts to unlock Crypteks, and lets face it that would be the only reason to take a plain Overlord, other than to spend the minimum on HQ. Don't forget about the special characters that can add some flavor to your army and unlock the RC. Anrakyr is a bargain for points if you want to boost a couple units with special rules and his MiM can be nice and it is still debated if you can use it on a CCB. If the event you are playing at allows it he is amazing on a CCB.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Played a Khorn army with my heavily close combat oriented Crons over the weekend and was really proud of the way my dudes out CC'ed one of the better CC armies in the game. Granted, after getting the +1 save for his Demon Prince (who had taken armor and now had a 2+ save) my DLord one shot the poor bastard with a Tachyon Arrow to the face. I'm pretty sure I would have beat him anyway but that made it a route.

I continue to love the DLord is my MVP. I run him SW/MSS/RO standard, although I'm seriously considering taking the TA more often now. I also run a near full unit of Triarch Praetorians, a full Warrior blob with Imo and a Chronotek, and a full squad of Flayed Ones, as well as a 6x3WhipCoil Wraith squad. It gives the DLord 3 squads (plus the Wraiths, though I prefer not too as they don't get RO love) to hop around too and spread PE/RO love as needed. It's a really fun and flexible army, and quite effective. Also, with the CC focus, I don't suffer much from Imo's NF on my turn.

I like the Tachyon arrow fluff wise, but I think its a waste of points. For just 5 more points you could get a lancetek. I have yet to play a game with the current codex without an overlord in my ranks. He's always equipped with an orb and I usually leave him stock other than that. Throw him in warrior or immortal squad aboard a nightscythe or ocassionally footslog with a vieltek. Staff of light is a decent weapon to help with MEQ. I think just the benefit of having the royal court is reason enough to take one.

Tachyon arrow would be better if standard lords could take it.

Tachyon arrow isn't that bad with a Destroyer Lord. Preferred enemy pretty nice, sis.

I take two doomsday barges. the traveler on CCB. 2 units of 6 wraiths with coils. 1 unit of warriors ~15 of them with an overlord and cryptek with veil. 1 unit of ~ 10 immortals tesla with lord and cryptek with veil. 1 ghost ark full of warriors sometimes with tremor cryptek.
If they are mech heavy army I port the big unit of warriors over and glance them. Wraiths attack and get into it as quick as possible. Command Barge I take in as well.
Most missions are objective claiming. If this happens I place my objects far away from each other and with some form of cover next to them. Wait till last turn and teleport my warriors and immortals to objectives. Has won me many of tournaments.

Who else wishes lychguards could be able to run shields and warscythes in the same unit? If they were able to mix and match I would use them in casual play without a doubt.

 sounddemon wrote:
Tachyon arrow isn't that bad with a Destroyer Lord. Preferred enemy pretty nice, sis.

^^^^ This. Plus, you get precision shot with it now, FWIW. With PE you have like a 77.8% chance to hit with it and a 97% chance to wound with it. Throw him in with a chronotek the round he shoots with it and it's damn near an auto wound. Double Ts toughness 5 and can one shot LRs.

Don't get me wrong, I use to never take it on a DLord. But with PE working the way it does now...man, it's really, really nice. Sure, it won't always work, but when it does it's a complete game changer. Plus, I love my DLord. Why not make him even more secsie ?

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
Tachyon arrow isn't that bad with a Destroyer Lord. Preferred enemy pretty nice, sis.

^^^^ This. Plus, you get precision shot with it now, FWIW. With PE you have like a 77.8% chance to hit with it and a 97% chance to wound with it. Throw him in with a chronotek the round he shoots with it and it's damn near an auto wound. Double Ts toughness 5 and can one shot LRs.

Don't get me wrong, I use to never take it on a DLord. But with PE working the way it does now...man, it's really, really nice. Sure, it won't always work, but when it does it's a complete game changer. Plus, I love my DLord. Why not make him even more secsie ?

Why not throw in zahndrekh for some tank hunter goodness too.

The problem is that most anything on foot that you'd want to use it on has an invul save. It'll pen light armor with ease, sure, but there's still only a 33% chance to pen armor 14 (and on a one shot weapon, that's not great odds). 17% chance to do basically nothing, and 50% chance to do nothing.

It's a decent piece of gear, all things said and done, but quite honestly with only have a maximum of 2 guys with one in a standard single FOC game...it's just not useful enough. With gauss weaponry able to wreck face on vehicles, who really cares about a single str 10 ap 1 shot.

The problem is that most anything on foot that you'd want to use it on has an invul save. It'll pen light armor with ease, sure, but there's still only a 33% chance to pen armor 14 (and on a one shot weapon, that's not great odds). 17% chance to do basically nothing, and 50% chance to do nothing.

True, but on that 50 or 66% chance they fail their invulnerable save or your Pen and destroy a Land Raider, you just took out a 200+ point unit with a 30 point piece of Wargear. That's the thing, even if it only helps you out in say, one out of every 4 games, its a complete game changer when it does. Not too many other investments you can make that can say the same thing. Even if it's just taking out a Psyflman dread or Ravager the first turn (something it has a pretty high chance of doing), that's a a significant amount of firepower being removed for a pretty cheap price.

It's a decent piece of gear, all things said and done, but quite honestly with only have a maximum of 2 guys with one in a standard single FOC game...it's just not useful enough. With gauss weaponry able to wreck face on vehicles, who really cares about a single str 10 ap 1 shot.

The guy who loses a Land Raider or Demon Prince on the first turn cares about it, I can tell you that ,

The tachyon arrow on a D. Lord is most useful, IMO, for popping a transport so you can assault the contents. Though last time I ran this I ended up killing a grot with it because it was turn 4 and I had nothing worth shooting it at... It got many laughs.

 Nakor The BlueRider wrote:
Personally I can't get enough of the Annihilation Barge, I ran 3 in 5th and love the thing and now in 6th its even better. Reliable anti-flyer, amazing anti-infantry and good anti-light tank the unit is bargain I can't see a time I won't field one.

My biggest issue atm is trying how to field a Necron Overlord, the CCB isn't as good as it used to be, though used wisely it can still be a great unit. I'd like to be able to use a Royal Court but I don't want to pay the Overlord tax since my go to HQ is the Destroyer Lord and was thinking whats the best use of a Footslogging Overlord.
In 1K5 games I have all my troops in Night Scythes (only 3 as taking any more in counter productive and lets face it, annoying for your opponent) and they only get out to claim objectives or some Rapid fire death. So what benefit or than a very expensive melee deterrent/ unit buff could a Overlord bring?

Well, I made similar experiences. The Annihilation Barges are amazing and very cheap for what they can achieve.
An Overlord in a CCB is more a liability than useful. However, he can work if the enemy fields shooty squads like Havocs or Devs. Then he could zoom around a flank to threaten them. But in my competitive 1750 pt list, there is no place for him.

How about the Dlord? He usually dies in challenges when the enemy can strike first and has an inv save, while the Dlord has none. That is a bit annoying.

How about the Dlord? He usually dies in challenges when the enemy can strike first and has an inv save, while the Dlord has none. That is a bit annoying.

MSS alone wins a lot of challenges. Then their is the fact that he's T6 (and can't be insta'd) and strikes before most weapons that are AP 2. I dunno, I've seen him take on just about anything out there. Sometimes he loses, but he wins more the he loses in my experience. I mean, there isn't a single CC character in the game that always wins...

T Arrow is good. I missed in 5th before PE re rolls 5 games in a row in a comp. I got unlucky but it is still worth it. Missing on 2's or 1's rerolled is much better now. My rule is never fire it if a cover save can stop it.

Overlord in CCB should not be rulled out. It moves a potential 30" in a turn. I don't take him as often but still great at alot of things. I have had whole armies fire at him. AV13 + a 4+ jink is a tough cookie to crack. I would hate one near my lines. Don't get him into assault to quick.

If the Surf lord was a chess peices it would be a queen.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

How about the Dlord? He usually dies in challenges when the enemy can strike first and has an inv save, while the Dlord has none. That is a bit annoying.

MSS alone wins a lot of challenges. Then their is the fact that he's T6 (and can't be insta'd) and strikes before most weapons that are AP 2. I dunno, I've seen him take on just about anything out there. Sometimes he loses, but he wins more the he loses in my experience. I mean, there isn't a single CC character in the game that always wins...

He can suffer ID, but not due to double toughness as strength unless he suffers from something that reduces his T, like a Rad Grenade + a Hammerhanded Daemon Hammer.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

The problem is that most anything on foot that you'd want to use it on has an invul save. It'll pen light armor with ease, sure, but there's still only a 33% chance to pen armor 14 (and on a one shot weapon, that's not great odds). 17% chance to do basically nothing, and 50% chance to do nothing.

True, but on that 50 or 66% chance they fail their invulnerable save or your Pen and destroy a Land Raider, you just took out a 200+ point unit with a 30 point piece of Wargear. That's the thing, even if it only helps you out in say, one out of every 4 games, its a complete game changer when it does. Not too many other investments you can make that can say the same thing. Even if it's just taking out a Psyflman dread or Ravager the first turn (something it has a pretty high chance of doing), that's a a significant amount of firepower being removed for a pretty cheap price.

It's a decent piece of gear, all things said and done, but quite honestly with only have a maximum of 2 guys with one in a standard single FOC game...it's just not useful enough. With gauss weaponry able to wreck face on vehicles, who really cares about a single str 10 ap 1 shot.

The guy who loses a Land Raider or Demon Prince on the first turn cares about it, I can tell you that ,

Oh, ya, against dreads they're totally worth it! Honestly the best aspect about the tachyon arrow is it's unlimited range. Ya the strength and AP are nice but we can get that from other things (or close to it, anyway).

Oh and just FYI those percentages I gave were for penning armor 14, the 17% was when rolling a 4 to glance, HP loss is nice but it's next to nothing. The 50% was a 1-3 roll.

 tallerguy wrote:

If the Surf lord was a chess peices it would be a queen.

Not by a long shot...that's a terrible analogy! The Queen is the strongest piece in the entire game and the surf lord is far, far from taking that role...

 Sigvatr wrote:

 tallerguy wrote:

If the Surf lord was a chess peices it would be a queen.

Not by a long shot...that's a terrible analogy! The Queen is the strongest piece in the entire game and the surf lord is far, far from taking that role...

I'd say knight.

More like bishop. Can be useful in rare circumstances and can then move by a long shot, but is only a threat if your opponent does not pay enough attention to it.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 tallerguy wrote:

If the Surf lord was a chess peices it would be a queen.

Not by a long shot...that's a terrible analogy! The Queen is the strongest piece in the entire game and the surf lord is far, far from taking that role...

The Queen is not the strongest piece in the game, it's just the most versatile.

 Sigvatr wrote:
More like bishop. Can be useful in rare circumstances and can then move by a long shot, but is only a threat if your opponent does not pay enough attention to it.

That was my second option, but the knight moving over other pieces and in weird ways is what really set it in stone for me.

Anyway, no point in the comparisons. LoL

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 tallerguy wrote:

If the Surf lord was a chess peices it would be a queen.

Not by a long shot...that's a terrible analogy! The Queen is the strongest piece in the entire game and the surf lord is far, far from taking that role...

The Queen is not the strongest piece in the game, it's just the most versatile.

I am really interested in what piece you'd consider to be the best then if not for the one that can move in every possible direction.

What do you guys think about tesseract labyrinth? Useful or useless?

 sounddemon wrote:
What do you guys think about tesseract labyrinth? Useful or useless?

Never used one, honestly. The units that can take it usually have weapons equipped that will destroy in CC anyway and anything I'd want to use it against right away has a high number of wounds.

That and it gets annoying to hear your opponent cry about how BS things are that necrons do. Hah.

 sounddemon wrote:
What do you guys think about tesseract labyrinth? Useful or useless?

If the Destroyer Lord could take one, I would always use it. On the foot lords, I don't put mine into situations where they could take advantage. I ran one one time because I knew I was facing a Blood Angel player for a league final. He was always running Mephiston and Sanguinar. So I loaded up with a C'tan using times arrow and lords with tesseract labyrinths. It worked well but only as a tailored list. The biggest turn off for me with the tachyon arrow and the labyrinth is the single use aspect of it. If you don't get a chance to use it properly or it fails to kill anything it's a major let down and you can't try again.

At least tesseracts can be put on standard lords. Maybe, just MAYBE, if you didn't have to give up all your CC attacks to use the tesseract it would be more desirable.

But ya, for the points I'd rather have more warriors or immortals or really anything else that will do much more than 1 attack.

Maybe I have always played my queens bad!. Bad analogy. Sorry.

The lab I have not seen a use for either. I know one guy who enjoys it. For half the points get a warscythe for the Swiss army knife usfullness. Armour bane to pop vehicles, Hurting 2+ save armour and one 1 str point away from Str 8 to insta gib T4 models. Furious charge from either Big Z or the traveller can give you the extra str point if you can get the charge off.

FYI, for anyone wishing to dust off their monoliths, you can take a list with 2x of these guys, 2x groups of wraiths (deepstriking all) and maybe some tomb spyders + a scarab squad for a pretty nasty surprise. 2x Monos + wraiths DS in (pull a unit of wraiths in if one doesn't make it) or if they all do (can take a comsat to help), warp in the tomb spyders for repairs + to add/support to the advancing scarab farm. As DS isn't done in the movement phase, you can do this in the same turn....that's a lot of high priority targets within 12-18" of an enemy flank.

You can also warp in C'tan and just mk sure the portal is facing such a way to block LOS. Your C'tan might actually see combat. I did a similar thing in a 1k point battle (mono + wraiths DS'd + brought in a squad of immortals) and this ended up giving me vanguard and a couple other things to secure the game. My 2nd immortal squad came through the next turn before the mono finally got taken out, but the damage had been done. It also sucked Coteaz into the portal + a few death cult assassins!

You can't bring in a unit through the monolith on the same turn a monolith deep strikes in.

 Kevin949 wrote:
You can't bring in a unit through the monolith on the same turn a monolith deep strikes in.

Reference would be appreciated, issue came up a few days ago with a friend's Necrons.

If this is true, however, think about Zankdreh, letting them drop down in the enemy turn.

Still, I don't like the new Monoliths. They need to be a lot cheaper or more effective to be viable picks.

agreed. HS right now AB, DDA, GA, > Monolith

Ghost Ark is a dedicated Transport. Also, I have had tremendous luck with the Monolith. Not as much melta out there anymore.

I do agree though, it is not the most point efficient Heavy Choice

 Kevin949 wrote:
You can't bring in a unit through the monolith on the same turn a monolith deep strikes in.

As far as rules for why you can, the reserves rule on page 124 state that you make the rolls "at the start of turn two." That ties into the deep strike portion on page 36 where it explains how you deploy them (the 3x bullets). The paragraph after those bullets that describe how to deploy them it says "In the Movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport vehicle if they are in one." One can infer from a RAW perspective that there's a difference in timing from which a unit is deployed from reserves via deep strike and the actual movement phase. Having deployed at the beginning of the turn, come your movement phase, you should be able to warp units through as your Monolith was on the table before the movement phase began.

Furthermore, if someone were to argue that deepstrike deployment were to happen at the beginning of movement phase, you would have 2x rules (the warp in rule and the deep strike rule) that are effective at the same time. As per the "exceptions" rule on page 9, the player whose turn it is can decide the order of these conflicting things....thus you deep strike 1st and use the portal 2nd as they're both done at the beginning of the movement phase (should you interpret DS as happening then).

Though the mono might not be as good by itself as 2x anni barges, you do get a degree of utility from it. A) it's right there on you enemies doorstep B) it's blocking line of sight C) it just warped in another high priority target (wraiths, c'tan, tomb spyders that are feeding a farm + repairing the mono) + it's armor while being one of the few closed topped vehicles is nice. If it's not taken out or only stunned, boom, there's another unit on their doorstep.

You roll for reserves at the start of turn whatever, you place your model and roll for scatter and finish the deep strike resolution in the movement phase. As stated in the deep strike rules "In the movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further......"

Now lets look at the reserves rule,"when a reserves unit arrives, it must move fully onto the table..."

So, we all know that movement is only allowed in the movement phase (and there is technically nothing before the movement phase, start of the turn IS the movement phase). Now then, when we look at the monoliths portal, it says that "at the beginning of the movement phase, nominate one unit...." or something very very close to that, but it does use the verbiage "at the beginning of the movement phase".

So, if we have rolled and resolved deep strike for the monolith, is it still the beginning of the movement phase? The answer is no, it is not, sadly.

By your definition it's deployed on the table at the beginning of the turn. There is no movement phase of any meaningful notice for the unit, as described later on, so it's indicating that the deployment of a deep striking unit is done prior to the movement phase. In the reserve rules for models moving onto the table it does state move models, but it's still not done in the movement phase. An exception to this is using the veil of darkness to deep strike on from reserves, but that doesn't change the fact that the monolith would still be on the table at the start of the movement phase and thus still be allowed to use it's portal.

abbazabba1920 wrote:
By your definition it's placed on the table at the beginning of the turn. Ergo, it can use it's portal at the beginning of the movement phase.

?? No, it's placed on the table to determine where you intend for it to land. It is not actually there until scatter and possible mishaps have been resolved, and at that point it has moved, else it would not "count as having moved at cruising speed".

Deploying the model and scattering and all that stuff is done at the start of the turn. Vehicles "count as" having moved at a certain speed and models can't move in their movement phase, which still implies that the actual deployment is done prior to the movement phase.

Where in the rulebook is anything defined "prior to the movement phase"?

It's not in the game phase breakdown, I'll tell you that.

I also already pointed out that deep strike says "in the movement phase IN WHICH THEY ARRIVE..."

When it says "at the start of the turn," I'm considering that before the movement phase. If I'm wrong and this does not imply before the movement phase, then "at the start of turn 2" would effectively mean "at the start of the movement phase," which is when one could exercise the "exceptions" rule and choose in their turn to do the sequence of deep striking 1st and then warping in 2nd, as they'd both be done at the start of whichever turn the reserve roll has been made.

It also says in the shooting phase in which they arrive. it's just stating in those later phases xyz conditions apply. The movement phase being one of those. On page 36, it says "Roll for the arrival of all deep striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:" Arriving from reserves, as per page 124 states "At the start of your Turn Two, you must roll a D6 for each unit being held in reserve - these are known as Reserve Rolls." Then it states (on that same page) "When Reserves arrive (ie. when you've made your reserves roll) the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described below." Now, I know you're going to say moving, but down below it says "Models arriving by Deep Strike or Outflank deploy using their special rules."

Just because a model is moving, doesn't mean it only happens in the movement phase. Lash of Submission, assault movements, running in the shooting phase, etc are all forms of movement not in the movement phase. Deep Striking/reserves is another one of these things, as you're making the roll and deploying them "at the start of the turn" after reserve rolls have been made.

P.S. Is there a reason you don't want this to be so? I can't see anything in the rules as worded or as intended that would forbid this (please don't just say "b/c you're/it is wrong").

abbazabba1920 wrote:
When it says "at the start of the turn," I'm considering that before the movement phase. If I'm wrong and this does not imply before the movement phase, then "at the start of turn 2" would effectively mean "at the start of the movement phase," which is when one could exercise the "exceptions" rule and choose in their turn to do the sequence of deep striking 1st and then warping in 2nd, as they'd both be done at the start of whichever turn the reserve roll has been made.

It also says in the shooting phase in which they arrive. it's just stating in those later phases xyz conditions apply. The movement phase being one of those. On page 36, it says "Roll for the arrival of all deep striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:" Arriving from reserves, as per page 124 states "At the start of your Turn Two, you must roll a D6 for each unit being held in reserve - these are known as Reserve Rolls." Then it states (on that same page) "When Reserves arrive (ie. when you've made your reserves roll) the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described below." Now, I know you're going to say moving, but down below it says "Models arriving by Deep Strike or Outflank deploy using their special rules."

Just because a model is moving, doesn't mean it only happens in the movement phase. Lash of Submission, assault movements, running in the shooting phase, etc are all forms of movement not in the movement phase. Deep Striking/reserves is another one of these things, as you're making the roll and deploying them "at the start of the turn" after reserve rolls have been made.

P.S. Is there a reason you don't want this to be so? I can't see anything in the rules as worded or as intended that would forbid this (please don't just say "b/c you're/it is wrong").

It says "in that turns shooting phase" on pg 36.

You're right, not all movement happens in the movement phase, some happens in assault and some in shooting. But rules that allow that kind of movement call out those specific phases.

I don't see your point in pointing out the reserves rule referencing to use the special rules of deep strike or outflank. Reserves is the general term for what everyone can do, deep strike and outflank are advanced rules for what specific units can do. They are all still in reserves.

As I said before, the only thing that actually takes place at a point one "might" consider being before movement is the roll to see if reserves arrive. When reserves arrive, it is happening in the movement phase, evidenced by the last sentence on 122 that says "the player can then proceed to move his other units as normal." It doesn't say you move on to the movement phase or any such thing, to "proceed" with something is to say you were currently doing that same thing. In the case of reserves, you're forced to roll for and move your reserve units first before moving any other units.

No, I would LOVE for it to work even though I rarely take monoliths anymore the allowance of this would make me take them more. Unfortunately, it just flat out does not work as such and it's been discussed many times since the codex dropped.

I'll concede to you, as that does make sense. But I guess what it comes down to is: are reserves done at the beginning of the movement phase/beginning of the turn? It seems to me that reserves are and then should be able to use the portal in the beginning of the movement phase. I dunno really. You might very well be correct. Does anyone know of a place one can submit these kinds of questions to increase the odds of them appearing in an FAQ?

I'm assuming then that you play that monoliths/skimmers can't scatter onto enemy units when they deepstrike, yes? Just curious, b/c one or the other has to apply. If DS is done in the movement phase, then a mono must be able to reduce it's movement to prevent a mishap (ie. being on a friendly/within 1" of an enemy) or conversely if it's done at the start of the movement phase/beginning of the turn, then it should be able to use it's portal that very turn. Sigh. I hate rules sometimes.

Ever since my Mono got eaten by dogs just before 5th edition dropped I've been reluctant to purchase another one, that being said I still think it has merit. It's damage capacity has gone up a bit with 6th, both with Pie Plates getting full strength on vehicles and being able to simultaneously snap shot the Gauss flux arcs. AV 14 with living metal and 4 HP is still a bitch to take down, and becomes even more so if you have some Tomb Spider support, a giant LOS blocking monstrosity still has a lot of utility when you have C'tan and Tomb Spiders to hide, and the portal is still both a nice deterrent to keep things at bay and a nice boost to army mobility.

Point being, when people just compare the Mono to say an AB or DDA they have a tendency to focus on damage capacity alone. The Mono is much more then just an 8/3 Ord Pie Plate. Now, if your army isn't designed to take advantage of all the other features, then you probably won't be to excited about it's performance. But don't undersell everything it's capable of doing and bringing to the table.

Lol dogs eating a monolith.

abbazabba1920 wrote:
I'll concede to you, as that does make sense. But I guess what it comes down to is: are reserves done at the beginning of the movement phase/beginning of the turn? It seems to me that reserves are and then should be able to use the portal in the beginning of the movement phase. I dunno really. You might very well be correct. Does anyone know of a place one can submit these kinds of questions to increase the odds of them appearing in an FAQ?

I'm assuming then that you play that monoliths/skimmers can't scatter onto enemy units when they deepstrike, yes? Just curious, b/c one or the other has to apply. If DS is done in the movement phase, then a mono must be able to reduce it's movement to prevent a mishap (ie. being on a friendly/within 1" of an enemy) or conversely if it's done at the start of the movement phase/beginning of the turn, then it should be able to use it's portal that very turn. Sigh. I hate rules sometimes.

No, I don't play it that way because mishapping happens before the movement actually occurs from deep striking, otherwise you'd still take dangerous terrain rolls when mishapping.

abbazabba1920 wrote:As far as rules for why you can, the reserves rule on page 124 state that you make the rolls "at the start of turn two." That ties into the deep strike portion on page 36 where it explains how you deploy them (the 3x bullets). The paragraph after those bullets that describe how to deploy them it says "In the Movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport vehicle if they are in one." One can infer from a RAW perspective that there's a difference in timing from which a unit is deployed from reserves via deep strike and the actual movement phase. Having deployed at the beginning of the turn, come your movement phase, you should be able to warp units through as your Monolith was on the table before the movement phase began.

Page 125, second paragraph explains in no unclear terms why you are wrong.