Natfka wrote:Yes, its blurry, but look what we have here today. Warriors of Chaos are here and are to be released February 2nd. Pre-orders to arrive shortly. The pic is apparently the army book cover.
What does that mean for everything else? Daemons for March? Flyers for April? Or do we have flyers at the same time. It does look like there are a few models for both the Hobbit and for 40k, but I cannot tell of flyers are included.
These came from a reader that apparently has his White Dwarf for some reason. Lets see if GW lets these images stay up, or if someone still has something riding up the backside. For some reason they targeted only a couple selective sites last month.
Villitch, chariot, dragon ogres? WOW! Just wondering abvout the Manticore that is on it, since it looks like exactly the same as the one the lords ride on.
helium42 wrote: So February Chaos Daemons codex/army book turns into WoC? So much for the rumor-mongers.
Well, seems no one saw this one coming. March might be Daemons month then... Which would still hold up with the rumors since they stated end feb. would be when Daemons show up...
I am pleased. Excuse me now, ladies and gentleman, I have to collect betmoney I have won. I have now about 150 euros to my dispose, for buying these fine warriors
And here I was hoping 40k Daemons would finally get fixed up from their current cluster-fethed-up mess we're currently saddled with.
Like there were ever be two 40K releases in two months? Right.
There are, normally, 2 40K releases a year. Maybe this is a special year and we'll see 3 (with one possibly being a supplement, analogous to WFB's Storm of Magic the year after the new edition).
Sasori wrote: That's a bit of a letdown. If there are no Flyers in this issue, I could see March being Flyers, then perhaps April being the Double Book month.
Keep in mind where all these flyer and double book rumors are coming from. You don't see Harry or Hastings saying them.
edit: Actually, you did. Ugh. I'm just wrong here. My bad, Sasori.
Hastings said February and everyone else copied him. Hastings later clarified that he always meant preorders start February, meaning a March relese, so his tracking record is clean this time.
Kroothawk wrote: Hastings said February and everyone else copied him. Hastings later clarified that he always meant preorders start February, meaning a March relese, so his tracking record is clean this time.
Well, I'll have to check, but Hastings had DOC/CS down for 'by Jan/Feb 2013' same as WOC. He got one of those right. If preorders go up for them in Feb, I'll reverse it.
Sasori wrote: That's a bit of a letdown. If there are no Flyers in this issue, I could see March being Flyers, then perhaps April being the Double Book month.
Keep in mind where all these flyer and double book rumors are coming from. You don't see Harry or Hastings saying them.
I'm going to have to pay better attention to the rumor tracking thread. I was really bummed to see WoC for Feb. Oh well, I suppose this gives me more time to save for daemons, hopefully just not too long.
And here I was hoping 40k Daemons would finally get fixed up from their current cluster-fethed-up mess we're currently saddled with.
Like there were ever be two 40K releases in two months? Right.
There are, normally, 2 40K releases a year. Maybe this is a special year and we'll see 3 (with one possibly being a supplement, analogous to WFB's Storm of Magic the year after the new edition).
That'll be it.
Clearly you slept through the 5th edition release when we had;
- Daemons (May), 5th edition (July), AoBR (Sept), Smurfs (Oct)
then followed by;
- Planetstrike (July), Planetary Empires + WD Tank rules (Aug), Spacehulk (Sept), Space Wolves (Oct).
Sure, because GW has never pandered more to 40k players than others...
I'm happy for WoC players getting some new life for their army, and to hopefully see the end of silliness like the dreaded Chosenstar 'o Dooooooom! and 3++ saves on combat monsters.
But at the same time, us poor Daemon players;
a) Are still revialed and hated by almost the entire Fantasy community because our book is still an ungodly OP pile of steeming fecal matter.
b) Are still either forced to play hugely uphill battles in 40k, or else become the new "WAAC donkeycaves" by spaming a boring, point-and-click list to compete. (not to even begin to try and tackle the issues with Derp Knights!)
Is...is this real, Pretre you magnificant dakka person, I was thinking about what to get next for warhammer and....and its finally happened, my hands are shaking from excitement, time to buy everything
AAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWW YYYYYEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
Automatically Appended Next Post: Gonna try and get closeups of them beauties but whats with the chimera?
Definately the slaughterbeast and a chariot hands down, finally my search for a big model is complete thank you Khorne and the team behind warriors of chaos.
thenoobbomb wrote: That CHaos Lord is definately moving in mah collection. As will some chariots. Hell yeah! Awesome, my birthday is 2 months after the release.
Wow. Now THOSE Chaos models are impressive. Those dragon ogres...off the charts! Seriously, best GW minis in a while. Congrats-these, I'm actually excited about.
I'd lost hope in WoC being released this year, pretty much spent my entire miniatures budget on Kingdom Death's KS. Oh well. I am indeed seeing a lot of fantastic models, which is great, because I was extremely underwhelmed by the kits WoC got for the White Dwarf last fall.
Edit: Dang, that on foot Lord. And Throgg? Ohhh man. Why did these have to come out the same time as my girlfriend's birthday?!
Oh my, that lovely Tzeentch beasty may get me to bring my Cthulhu mythos Vampire Counts back out. I could totally bitsmash it with my Mortis Engine to make my shrine o'Necronomicon evil magicness!
silent25 wrote: Before the thread got deleted over at Warseer, this little gem was posted.
Book is by Cruddance.
Someone was talking about a steaming pile of fecal matter in this thread earlier?
Well, he didn't do too bad with Empire, and Tomb Kings are actually pretty decent. He's a much better Fantasy Author, than he is 40K
I'll admit that the Empire wasn't too bad, but the TK are the weakest of this edition and a tier-3 army. Though he still has problems with over/under costing units.
Grimtuff wrote: @Petre: I've noticed you've not got Vilitch nor the lord on foot in the OP. They're the last two links in my first post on this thread.
Updated FP.
Looks like you ninja'd me and I didn't notice while I was busy digging through that guys twitter.
Chariot holds many models imo, build a chariot, build a kick ass looking chaos lord from it as well as the beasty thing a cool unit filler more my marauders. Cant wait haha
Dragon ogres look great to me, originally thought they were going to look bad, also, how big do they look compared to the originals, they look massive!
That red beast with the tongue all hanging out looks really stupid. Not a fan of that one at all.
The Lord pictured with a pike in black armor is pretty awesome though.
Argh and of course now it's even more tempting to start that fantasy army properly, why did they have to cram all the chaos in such a short period my poor wallet
I don't give a flying feth about Warriors of Chaos, but this looks to be a really strong release, model-wise, and I will pick up one of those tentacle****beasts just to have.
Way better than the WoC November release. Some suitably chaotic pieces in there. Nothing that will be troubling my wallet thank god, but a slight return to form.
Especially good to see Dragon Ogres with non-spindly legs at last.
Flashman wrote: Way better than the WoC November release. Some suitably chaotic pieces in there. Nothing that will be troubling my wallet thank god, but a slight return to form.
Especially good to see Dragon Ogres with non-spindly legs at last.
Now here's a thought. The Warshrine. Back then several people noted it looked like the Howdah was supposed to go on a then unreleased big monster and the ...things lifting it were just filler. Think it will all too conveniently fit on the back of the Slaughterbrute/Vortex Beast?
Sweet! Its my birthday next month and my wife got me a stack of WoC stuff for Christmas, she gets the GW news letter so fingers crossed she takes note....might accedently email her my wishlist lol
1.) It's Robin Cruddace, not cruddance (the latter is just an insult).
2.) Personally I find none of those sculpts except Throgg inspiring, but then again I am not a Chaos player (except Chaos Dwarfs). Hope the armybook still has potential as a "count as" Chaos Dwarf book.
3.) The tentacle monster and big Daemon thingy is obviously a dual kit. As are the two chariots.
4.) The arch enemy of the tentacle monster is clearly this (by Hasslefree):
5.) Here the quote by Hastings saying that his time predictions refer to preorder dates:
75hastings69 wrote:
silverstu wrote:Although Hastings does sometimes refer to a month and mean preorders at the end of that month, not sure that's the case this time though. The rumours of this flyer wave have been about for a good while -could be reverb or they could be finally materialising..
Personally I'd love a cool new Eldar flyer [and a look at the Voidraven and Harpy]. That said I have plenty to paint in meantime...
My dates used to be pre-order dates, this discussion has been had before (I say used to as I'm not in the rumour buisiness anymore)
His WoC statements some days ago:
I expected the book and some different minis, so I'm guessing that the missing minis & the book will form the big re-release whenever that may be.
(...)
I was expecting the WoC book, plastic dragon Ogres and plastic forsaken (and the nice woc lord on foot in plastic) at the same time as the warshrine...... obviously didn't pan out as I'd expected, but I'm guessing those 3 kits & the plastic chariot will accompany the book release, although when this is I don't know (or indeed care! Lol) all of the woc plastic I mentioned there are finished a long time ago.... they even shown part of the painted chariot in WD
Kroothawk wrote: 1.) It's Robin Cruddace, not cruddance (the latter is just an insult).
2.) Personally I find none of those sculpts except Throgg inspiring, but then again I am not a Chaos player (except Chaos Dwarfs). Hope the armybook still has potential as a "count as" Chaos Dwarf book.
3.) The tentacle monster and big Daemon thingy is obviously a dual kit. As are the two chariots.
4.) The arch enemy of the tentacle monster is clearly this (by Hasslefree):
Correction noted. Think the later has been tossed around so much due to people hating the TK book.
Strangely I don't like the Throgg mini. Feels more like a man turned into a troll than a troll given the intelligence of a man. Good model, but doesn't mesh with the background. Of course that background may have been changed in this book
Plastic Dragon Ogres and Chaos Chariot was all I wanted from GW for WoC, so... FETH YEAH!!! AWESOME! I don't give a gak about the other units, but I'll be buying for sure the book and those two units. Sweet
ceorron wrote: I can help the "These seem to be heavily "inspired" by WoW", thing they have got going on with them?.
Obligatory
Spoiler:
Yeah I thought of that one two, still funny but it is strange. GW could have gone this way before WoW came in and pilfered GW's ideas. GWs fluff has always had a comic book, 80's hair metal feel to it, may as well make the models look that way IMO. My words allude me, I don't know of a better way to describe it.
ceorron wrote: Yeah I thought of that one two, still funny but it is strange. GW could have gone this way before WoW came in and pilfered GW's ideas. GWs fluff has always had a comic book, 80's hair metal feel to it, may as well make the models look that way IMO. My words allude me, I don't know of a better way to describe it.
Guess, I should repeat what I edited on last page.
Here the quote by Hastings saying that his time predictions refer to preorder dates:
75hastings69 wrote:
silverstu wrote:Although Hastings does sometimes refer to a month and mean preorders at the end of that month, not sure that's the case this time though. The rumours of this flyer wave have been about for a good while -could be reverb or they could be finally materialising..
Personally I'd love a cool new Eldar flyer [and a look at the Voidraven and Harpy]. That said I have plenty to paint in meantime...
My dates used to be pre-order dates, this discussion has been had before (I say used to as I'm not in the rumour buisiness anymore)
His WoC statements some days ago:
I expected the book and some different minis, so I'm guessing that the missing minis & the book will form the big re-release whenever that may be.
(...)
I was expecting the WoC book, plastic dragon Ogres and plastic forsaken (and the nice woc lord on foot in plastic) at the same time as the warshrine...... obviously didn't pan out as I'd expected, but I'm guessing those 3 kits & the plastic chariot will accompany the book release, although when this is I don't know (or indeed care! Lol) all of the woc plastic I mentioned there are finished a long time ago.... they even shown part of the painted chariot in WD
So Hasting's rumour tracking record goes like this:
Plastic Dragon Ogres? check.
Plastic Forsaken? Check
Plastic chariot? Check.
Plastic Lord on foot? Check.
Release date of book? Expected a few months earlier, then correctly with next wave.
ceorron wrote: Yeah I thought of that one two, still funny but it is strange. GW could have gone this way before WoW came in and pilfered GW's ideas. GWs fluff has always had a comic book, 80's hair metal feel to it, may as well make the models look that way IMO. My words allude me, I don't know of a better way to describe it.
On topic so not to get in trouble (and also to boost my rating) I'll add plastic dragon ogres to this WoC release wave I'll also add generic plastic chaos lord clam pack (feel my rating soar!! Lol)
Oh, and the text on the page with the Lord on foot 8the one with the horns) clearly stated that he is plastic (even if the lack of the yellow stripe hadn't convinced you).
Even when on 9th January, he clearly speaks of the upcoming plastic chariot???
BTW not sure if the official names have been posted:
Throgg (the troll, sculptor Seb Perbet) £36
Vilitch the Curseling (Finecast Tzeentch character, also by Seb Perbet) £15
Chaos Lord (Plastic, same sculptor)
Dragon Ogres (Plastic, by Alex Hedström) £35 for 3
Slaughter Brute/Mutalith Vorptex Beast
Chariot £25
Forsaken £30 for 10
Plus old plastic Chimera now "rereleased" for WoC Also new Magic cards.
Also seen are the Hobbit third wave on the release pages.
Hasting's comment today:
Too many flat surfaces devoid of even texture let alone detail. I really don't like any of this stuff apart from the plastic lord. However that's just me, I've discovered a whole heap of other companies that make stuff I like, I'm pleased that so many of you like this release..... the daemon models are nicer though (...)
I figured out what bugs me about the beefcake of chaos/slaughterbrute it's the teeth, they look like the ones Mark Harrison plastered all over those chaos space marines a few years back, wonder if he did this too? I think the beefcake of chaos is growing on me..... The other stuff not so much lol
For the chariot it's the blatant re-using of the same CAD parts off the warshrine. It's like everything is a CAD kit bash of another kit recently. I wish they'd go back to traditional sculpting as some of GWs guys aren't ready for this type of sculpting yet. There's too much re-using of parts, and too many flat, angular (savage Orc bodies!?) and badly detailed areas (this triangular fur craze) for them to even think there amongst the best models in the world let alone claim to be "the" best.
What companies do you prefer for Chaos stuff? Or is it that you mean other companies have better ranges, worlds and systems not just alternative GW models? Genuinely interested.
As you are genuinely interested ill be happy to tell you.i believe that GWs biggest draw (and their sole greatest possession) are the worlds they've built(for both systems) they are almost living breathing organisms, recently even these have been eroded by the need to just sell sell sell (with stuff like by daemons etc to fight alongside your high elves - just for the sake of selling more models even if it goes against and diminishes 25+ years work) BUT I still honestly feel that their game worlds are second to none.
It's their models/designs/quality/price that are letting them down IMO. The models seem almost lazy in design with numerous "new" kits looking like kitbashes of other kits (just with a big price) check out the DA flyer, the recent woc cavalry etc for examples, it's not that they are bad but lazy, lets look at the slaanesh hell striders, the steed is an iconic beast of slaanesh, I understand that more than one follower of slaanesh would use it and I'm fine with that. It's the design work, the steed is lithe and has heaps of momentum, it looks like its doing 100mph, now take the riders, they look totally unaffected by that motion, for all intents and purposes those marauders could be sat having a pint in bugmans! That's how disjointed the two elements of the model feel, it's like they had the steeds lying around already made (which they did) they just suck a diffent rider on for a fast buck! The same with the skullcrushers, why didn't they at least change up the poses etc of the juggernauts? This kind of thing just seems lazy to me. Now we have the chariot, obviously another cad piece as it shares several parts with the recent war shrine and has loads of strange angles and surfaces that are devoid of texture and detail, like a mass produced child's happy meal toy has. Sure the old chariot was showing its age but it had texture, detail & character, this is just "by numbers" for me and nothing more. Even the posing is getting old now, must every quadricepped creature be stood on its back legs swatting invisible flies? Other companies are making truly dynamic models (using CAD as well as traditional sculpting methods I might add), GW just seems stuck in some awkward "copy paste" phase ATMIMO, they're either A/ struggling for ideas B/ struggling to produce finished items due to time constraints (although the number of sculptors at GW in ratio to the number of models released per month makes me doubt this) C/ trying to use a little effort as possible for as much financial gain as possible I.e. no need to sculpt steeds just the riders will do and that's another kit we can churn out or D/ their target demographic has changed.
My own belief is D. Supported by poor quality (finecrap), very high prices (high turnover clients who don't remain in the hobby)' a dreadful "hobby" magazine so devoid of content that only the pictures must attract a certain consumer - even the 'painting guides' can't really be called that anymore, where's the inspiration?
As for actual systems I'm led to believe Kings of War is very good when compared to WFB, also other systems are seeing greater support than ever before, although these could be linked to price rather than specifically GW game systems being better or worse than those of their competitors.
Do some searching on the net, there are so many companies out there right now making beautiful models, I don't think there's ever been a better time to be in the hobby.... if you are prepared to look beyond citadel's ivory tower.
Sorry about the OT post, although to be fair bits of it discuss the new warriors models so its not all bad
Umm haaaatings you said dragon ogres werent too good? i have to disagree on this one!
Excellent, glad you like them. They're an improvement (IMO) over the previous ones but they could have (IMO) been so much better. They look to me like someone stuck the torso of an ogre on a cow with a lizard tail. The fluff states they are not ogres or related to ogres, the dragon part/reptilian part should/could have been more lithe (IMO). Also why do they look nothing like a shaggoth who is meant to be an ancient Dragon Ogre (that's correct isn't it?). Still it's nice they're now in plastic with different options.
I remember one of the rumor mongers stated that he saw the Dragon Ogres early one and they were going to be fugly, so I was apprehensive about their looks.
I think they look badass. Will definitely pick a set or two of those.
As a Beastmen player, this release is a strong case to develop an allied WoC contingent.
Looks like I picked a good time to start Fantasy. Here's hoping the one unit of Khornate Halberd/shield warriors I already painted aren't going to be obsoleted by the new army book.
Forsaken I recall were supposedly d3+1 attack Scout S4 T4 no armour save. However seeing as how they're rank-and-file in the pictures let's just say I am probably not to convinced about Scout.
Wasn't there supposed to be a Troll King Throgg with this release? Eh, guess chaos trolls can wait some more.
Forsaken I recall were supposedly d3+1 attack Scout S4 T4 no armour save. However seeing as how they're rank-and-file in the pictures let's just say I am probably not to convinced about Scout.
No Armor save? Hmn but they had heavy armor in the current book. And seeing no one takes forsaken currently I wonder if scout will make them worthwhile
Wait...that's Troll King Throgg!? What happened to "he'll look like the picture". They turned him from a bridge-dwelling nightmare troll into a fist-pumping gym-junkie!?
Forsaken I recall were supposedly d3+1 attack Scout S4 T4 no armour save. However seeing as how they're rank-and-file in the pictures let's just say I am probably not to convinced about Scout.
No Armor save? Hmn but they had heavy armor in the current book. And seeing no one takes forsaken currently I wonder if scout will make them worthwhile
Those were some very early rumours that when reflected upon now do not seem too promising.
Yeah... imo Throgg sux, as well as the Dragon Ogres.
Doesn't seem to be the majority opinion, but having played a Throgg army from 7th-8th edition fantasy with my own converted dragon ogres, it's definitely mine... although I have since parted with it.
I am going to pass on the GW miniatures, mainly because I don't like the look of many of them to be honest, as well as the fact that I am also trying to avoid using as many as I can. I will, begrudgingly, buy the book though, and probably the spell deck.
Now I just need to find something to proxy Dragon Ogres with. I think the two big monster kits are ugly as hell, so I am likely to go the cheaper route and look for something appropriate from the McFarlane Spawn line of figures.
Good to see the new book is coming through. My initial prediction? Expect a marked rise in the cost of Marauder units, with the cost of taking a mark now done on a per-model basis. I can see the Tzeentch benefit of adding +1 to a ward save going away, and a likely change to the Puppet as well as Chaos spells.
I think Chaos have had it too good for too long, and this is likely to balance them out nicely.
Not a huge fan of the Dragon Ogres (the dragon legs look... off somehow), but the rest looks pretty spiffy. Still love that we're getting more plastic heros/lords.
Don't play Warriors of Chaos, but I'm definitely going to get a few chariots to use for my beastmen army!
I don't get it. Aren't WoC one of the newer books(just before 8th ed). Where is the Demons, woodelf, Bretonnian, and dwarf army books which are in much greater need of a redo(daemons because they are boring and OP)
magicafiend wrote: I don't get it. Aren't WoC one of the newer books(just before 8th ed). Where is the Demons, woodelf, Bretonnian, and dwarf army books which are in much greater need of a redo(daemons because they are boring and OP)
RiTides wrote: Yeah... imo Throgg sux, as well as the Dragon Ogres.
Doesn't seem to be the majority opinion, but having played a Throgg army from 7th-8th edition fantasy with my own converted dragon ogres, it's definitely mine... although I have since parted with it.
I have to agree. While the Dragon Ogres are a step up from the current, the static legs are a major "meh" factor for the models.
And personally owning many of the Miss Painting Group character models (Throgg, Kholek, Vilitch) that are damn near identical to the artwork, I find the new characters to be extremely lackluster.
I'm loving the rest of the release, however! Barring maybe the Forsaken.
The only problem is that there is no real good alternative to the Dragon Ogres. Sadly.
Perhaps we can convince Tre from Red Box Games to make some alternatives. Perhaps with rhino lower parts or something cool so they are different enough to give people a choice.
WaaaaghLord wrote: Er, what are those first two things supposed to be? they look utterly awful. Not complaining at plastic Dragon Ogres (assuming?) though.
At the risk of sounding snarky. Read. The. Thread. I've answered it multiple times. The first is a Slaughterbrute and the second is (maybe called) a Mutalith Vortexbeast
WaaaaghLord wrote: Er, what are those first two things supposed to be? they look utterly awful. Not complaining at plastic Dragon Ogres (assuming?) though.
At the risk of sounding snarky. Read. The. Thread. I've answered it multiple times. The first is a Slaughterbrute and the second is (maybe called) a Mutalith Vortexbeast
Yeah, I am quite aware, as I can read, thank you very much. Knowing the names doesn't change the fact that they look utterly awful, in my opinion.
The Dragon Ogres and Throgg looks really great, as does Vilitch, to bad i dont have any interest for dragon ogres.
The rest of them are kinda 'meh', i think i'll pass on this release and wait for some new Daemons instead.. :(
Why does most of the stuff GW puts out lately have to look like rediculously over the top children's toys.
I would have been interested in the Dragon Ogres, but they just look awkward. The heads are smallish and the stiff legs & arms don't look good at all. They appear to be moving like the 7 foot 2 white guy who wants to play basketball but really isn't athletic at all. As if a trainee sculptor ruined a great potential. And why does that Lord's head look like he has Down Syndrome?
Throgg does look good Imo, but he is FC probably, so no thanks.
Maybe finally the Marauder resculpts then........ oh wait we didn't get any, but only new unnecessary blinged out nonsense again instead.
Last hope goes out to the Forsaken once better pictures show up... (they have some potential as cultists/zombies/mutants/etc).
Whatever though, the best thing about this release will probably be the laugh we get at the new equally over the top prices GW pulled out of their backsides.
TBD wrote: Why does most of the stuff GW puts out lately have to look like rediculously over the top children's toys.
I would have been interested in the Dragon Ogres, but they just look awkward. The heads are smallish and the stiff legs & arms don't look good at all. They appear to be moving like the 7 foot 2 white guy who wants to play basketball but really isn't athletic at all. As if a trainee sculptor ruined a great potential. And why does that Lord's head look like he has Down Syndrome?
Throgg does look good Imo, but he is FC probably, so no thanks.
Maybe finally the Marauder resculpts then........ oh wait we didn't get any, but only new unnecessary blinged out nonsense again instead.
Last hope goes out to the Forsaken once better pictures show up...
Whatever though, the best thing about this release will probably be the laugh we get at the new equally over the top prices GW pulled out of their backsides.
Straight from Rick Priestly himself:
"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!"
Yeah that hits the nail on the head. Unfortunately it is true.
Reminds me of the Underworld movies, for example. I really love the first one, and the second and third one were alright, but the last one got ruined completely by the absolutely horrible cgi. GW is going down that same road.
My only gripe is on the big beasties, why is their right arm so small, I am scratching my head on how the slaughterbeast must attack, unless it can stand on its legs, the right arm is far too short to strike with and the left arm cannot attack if the right arm cannot support the body on the floor.
The reason I don't like the dragon ogres is the front legs are Huge, rather than looking more like raptors. Also, it was really easy to make decent dragon ogres before. See the following conversion, just black orcs and cold ones...
I can't say that any of these minis "wow" me. The dragon ogres aren't bad, but I prefer the old ones.
It is nice to see a new army book. I have a shelf full of both Chaos and Undead, from when I played back in 5th edition. My brother-in-law got me the new core rulebook for a Christmas/birthday present. I was going to default to picking up the vampire count book, as it irks me to buy an out of date codex. Now I'll have to figure out which one of my armies is viable in this day and age, and go forth the destroy the world.
Will be buying him and the armybook ... though now I find myself at an impasse, as I can't afford those + the skorne mammoth that hits right around then as well
Also: extremely thrilled that we finally finally finally have plastic chaos chariots. That old metal monster needed to leave long ago. Note that if they're finecast I'mma gonna have to get my hate ray powered up
Also: here's hoping the drogres are still on 50x50 bases, I'd hate to have to rebase my counts as dudes. Same goes for RTides and all those brave folks who converted their own
TBD wrote: Why does most of the stuff GW puts out lately have to look like rediculously over the top children's toys.
This.
The large monsters, in fact all the recent large monsters, have a very strong WoW aesthetic about them. They do look like toys. It's like they're straining the last of the horror aspects from WHFB in favour of oversizing and making the model as 'loud' as possible.
I do like the single reptilian steed for the chariot and the dragon ogres seem solid (RiTides, dragon ogres have traditionally been quadruped and it was only the Shaggoth that deviated from that).
Also, I think we all need to understand that it seems no redesigns for existing models when they can release new models for new units and 'encourage' all army owners to buy them. There is a reduced profit if they redesign marauders as lots who already own the existing ones will simply keep their old models. So, this is a maximizing of profit from the company.
I will be looking to kitbash my own 'giant monsters' or pick up a more horrific and eldritch looking creature from another range to replace these 'giant he-man toys'. I'm off to reread Slaves to Darkness...
I'd love to know just what is going through their minds regarding Fantasy, it looks from the outside like they're forcing it to appeal to young children, which, given how much I loved it for it's utter darkness in comparison with so many fantasy settings, is just a bloody shame.
RiTides wrote: The reason I don't like the dragon ogres is the front legs are Huge, rather than looking more like raptors.
I have to admit a bit of interest as to why Dragon Ogres equate to raptors in your mind, RiTides. Care to share? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to put you on the spot or anything here.
To my mind, they've always seemed more like they would be rather bulky abominations which deserve both the name "dragon" and "ogre".
TBD wrote: Why does most of the stuff GW puts out lately have to look like rediculously over the top children's toys.
This.
The large monsters, in fact all the recent large monsters, have a very strong WoW aesthetic about them. They do look like toys. It's like they're straining the last of the horror aspects from WHFB in favour of oversizing and making the model as 'loud' as possible.
I have to wonder if it might be due to the fact that they've started doing primarily digital design work for the bigger things. I seem to recall this line of discussion being a really hot topic when the Ogre Kingdoms book came out regarding the Mammoths.
I have to wonder if it might be due to the fact that they've started doing primarily digital design work for the bigger things. I seem to recall this line of discussion being a really hot topic when the Ogre Kingdoms book came out regarding the Mammoths.
That would make a lot of sense, there's something weirdly artificial and symmetrical about the fur or horns or other things that should be irregular and asymmetrical. This makes it feel, to me, mass produced and cheap, like a child's toy, rather than a sculpt.
I have to wonder if it might be due to the fact that they've started doing primarily digital design work for the bigger things. I seem to recall this line of discussion being a really hot topic when the Ogre Kingdoms book came out regarding the Mammoths.
That would make a lot of sense, there's something weirdly artificial and symmetrical about the fur or horns or other things that should be irregular and asymmetrical. This makes it feel, to me, mass produced and cheap, like a child's toy, rather than a sculpt.
To me, a lot of it is coming down to the color choices.
It might sound silly, but a good example of this is again the mammoth. The Stonehorn they painted is vastly more cartoony to my eye than the Thundertusk.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I'd love to know just what is going through their minds regarding Fantasy, it looks from the outside like they're forcing it to appeal to young children, which, given how much I loved it for it's utter darkness in comparison with so many fantasy settings, is just a bloody shame.
My kneejerk reaction was to stick up for the rules system itself and say that Fantasy is much more adult oriented (i.e. complex and tactically deep) when compared to 40k, with its loose unit coherency, open LoS, roll-as-many-dice-as-possible-to-secure-victory mechanic ... but you know, I don't believe that anymore. The Yahtzeehammer component of Fantasy is far too hard to ignore, especially when combined with the Deathstarhammer approach to list building that the VP arrangement promotes, and let's face it, a general laxity in the rules of play (premeasure I'm looking at you). Fantasy has a lot of small rules to keep in mind for sure, but compared to the newest 40k? I feel like it pales in comparison to the raw minutiae in that BRB
But you were talking aesthetics MGS, particularly when it comes to the dark powers, so back on topic. For me, GeeDub lost my faith when they removed the Diaz daemonettes, with their glorious preponderance of breasts, and replaced them with the hideous one-breasted plastics. Slaanesh has never recovered - I know you've your own share of angst when it comes to representing that deity in particular (are the newest seekers and the chariot thing really it for the last several years???) Part of my joy over the vortex beast is that the tentacles scream Chaos to me in a way that the Dub hasn't been doing a lot of recently. As in, disconnected from existing IP (Tzeentch = horrors, flamers, screamers; Khorne = bloodletters, juggers, angry dudes, etc).
The rest of my joy over the big beastie is that I unabashedly love me some big monsters
Aerethan wrote: So I show up late to the thread and almost all the pics have been deleted. Anyone able to rehost them?
Fixed them all for you, Aerethan. Let's see how long those last.
Also, now everyone is changing their tune on dates. lol
via anonymous on Faeit212 wrote:
Nothing was wrong with the dates I provided, I guess I just wasn't clear.
Febuary WD is daemons, march WD is flyers.
At least, in so far as the white dwarf released in feb, etc.
The white dwarf released in december had DAngels for instance.
It's back to back releases with a heavier focus on 40k for the next year to two years to get all the army books up to date. Then expect new units in white dwarf releases and army updates to spot fill anything that needs a boost here or there. Then it will be a primary focus on expansions and supplements as opposed to just a revolving door of codexes.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I'd love to know just what is going through their minds regarding Fantasy, it looks from the outside like they're forcing it to appeal to young children, which, given how much I loved it for it's utter darkness in comparison with so many fantasy settings, is just a bloody shame.
My kneejerk reaction was to stick up for the rules system itself and say that Fantasy is much more adult oriented (i.e. complex and tactically deep) when compared to 40k, with its loose unit coherency, open LoS, roll-as-many-dice-as-possible-to-secure-victory mechanic ... but you know, I don't believe that anymore. The Yahtzeehammer component of Fantasy is far too hard to ignore, especially when combined with the Deathstarhammer approach to list building that the VP arrangement promotes, and let's face it, a general laxity in the rules of play (premeasure I'm looking at you). Fantasy has a lot of small rules to keep in mind for sure, but compared to the newest 40k? I feel like it pales in comparison to the raw minutiae in that BRB
I think WHFB has ever been above 40k in terms of rules complexity and considered the more adult of the two and I enjoyed it as such for many years as, for me, the unforgiving movement of whole units and thinking several steps ahead in that regard, led to a loftier game. The divergence has indeed happened with the last edition of 40k which has rolled back the playstyle to a strange 2.5 edition. The last edition of Fantasy just seems very very badly constructed for one reason, it's clear that the marketing ploy was for massive units and huge monsters, for pure cash profit, yet monsters are utterly vulnerable to warmachines and magic, the magic also very directly threatens the large 'eggs in one basket' units they want you to build. Premeasure existed long ago and it's coming back is a seasonal thing I think, part of the old is new is old lazy cycling I see on occasion in the newer rulesets. If the newest edition of 40k has got you back to the game though, I'm happy to hear it and insist you head over to Fortress Stompa for a game or two!
But you were talking aesthetics MGS, particularly when it comes to the dark powers, so back on topic. For me, GeeDub lost my faith when they removed the Diaz daemonettes, with their glorious preponderance of breasts, and replaced them with the hideous one-breasted plastics. Slaanesh has never recovered - I know you've your own share of angst when it comes to representing that deity in particular (are the newest seekers and the chariot thing really it for the last several years???) Part of my joy over the vortex beast is that the tentacles scream Chaos to me in a way that the Dub hasn't been doing a lot of recently. As in, disconnected from existing IP (Tzeentch = horrors, flamers, screamers; Khorne = bloodletters, juggers, angry dudes, etc).
The rest of my joy over the big beastie is that I unabashedly love me some big monsters - Salvage
Slaanesh is, I think, something that the guys in suits really wish would just vanish from both settings due to it's subject matter not being suitable for little kiddies. Personally I think sHe's my favourite god, partially for that reason alone and mostly because I find it the most interesting of the gods, being a fan of cenobites and paradise lost. I think the only GW models that effectively convey it are some of the very old Jes G champions, like the two headed elf, bald snake and the one carrying the book, and the forgeworld keeper of secrets. I don't think the prior daemonettes were better based on a breast count but rather because they were a much better sculpt than the plastics, they have more movement and sharper details.
I do like the tentacles on the front of that big monster, just the rest of it, ie if you want one of each of those monsters it's basically a giant headswap... and the body is fairly gimpy to me.
Kanluwen wrote: I have to admit a bit of interest as to why Dragon Ogres equate to raptors in your mind, RiTides. Care to share? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to put you on the spot or anything here.
To my mind, they've always seemed more like they would be rather bulky abominations which deserve both the name "dragon" and "ogre".
They can be bulky abominations without having 4 sets of legs that are nearly the same size . Look at the excellent Dragon Ogre Shaggoth model! It's got T-rex front arms. This is how I envisioned dragon ogres to be, too, hence my converting them from cold one bodies (that I learned from someone on Dakka ) to keep the Shaggoth look.
I'm also not a fan of Throgg at all. Glad I got out before they put out those models...
(not that I'm not planning to get back into fantasy, with chaos dwarfs likely, from a variety of sources... but I just find these releases to be lackluster and cartoony is all)
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I'd love to know just what is going through their minds regarding Fantasy, it looks from the outside like they're forcing it to appeal to young children, which, given how much I loved it for it's utter darkness in comparison with so many fantasy settings, is just a bloody shame.
My kneejerk reaction was to stick up for the rules system itself and say that Fantasy is much more adult oriented (i.e. complex and tactically deep) when compared to 40k, with its loose unit coherency, open LoS, roll-as-many-dice-as-possible-to-secure-victory mechanic ... but you know, I don't believe that anymore. The Yahtzeehammer component of Fantasy is far too hard to ignore, especially when combined with the Deathstarhammer approach to list building that the VP arrangement promotes, and let's face it, a general laxity in the rules of play (premeasure I'm looking at you). Fantasy has a lot of small rules to keep in mind for sure, but compared to the newest 40k? I feel like it pales in comparison to the raw minutiae in that BRB
I think WHFB has ever been above 40k in terms of rules complexity and considered the more adult of the two and I enjoyed it as such for many years as, for me, the unforgiving movement of whole units and thinking several steps ahead in that regard, led to a loftier game. The divergence has indeed happened with the last edition of 40k which has rolled back the playstyle to a strange 2.5 edition. The last edition of Fantasy just seems very very badly constructed for one reason, it's clear that the marketing ploy was for massive units and huge monsters, for pure cash profit, yet monsters are utterly vulnerable to warmachines and magic, the magic also very directly threatens the large 'eggs in one basket' units they want you to build. Premeasure existed long ago and it's coming back is a seasonal thing I think, part of the old is new is old lazy cycling I see on occasion in the newer rulesets. If the newest edition of 40k has got you back to the game though, I'm happy to hear it and insist you head over to Fortress Stompa for a game or two!
But you were talking aesthetics MGS, particularly when it comes to the dark powers, so back on topic. For me, GeeDub lost my faith when they removed the Diaz daemonettes, with their glorious preponderance of breasts, and replaced them with the hideous one-breasted plastics. Slaanesh has never recovered - I know you've your own share of angst when it comes to representing that deity in particular (are the newest seekers and the chariot thing really it for the last several years???) Part of my joy over the vortex beast is that the tentacles scream Chaos to me in a way that the Dub hasn't been doing a lot of recently. As in, disconnected from existing IP (Tzeentch = horrors, flamers, screamers; Khorne = bloodletters, juggers, angry dudes, etc).
The rest of my joy over the big beastie is that I unabashedly love me some big monsters - Salvage
Slaanesh is, I think, something that the guys in suits really wish would just vanish from both settings due to it's subject matter not being suitable for little kiddies. Personally I think sHe's my favourite god, partially for that reason alone and mostly because I find it the most interesting of the gods, being a fan of cenobites and paradise lost. I think the only GW models that effectively convey it are some of the very old Jes G champions, like the two headed elf, bald snake and the one carrying the book, and the forgeworld keeper of secrets. I don't think the prior daemonettes were better based on a breast count but rather because they were a much better sculpt than the plastics, they have more movement and sharper details.
I do like the tentacles on the front of that big monster, just the rest of it, ie if you want one of each of those monsters it's basically a giant headswap... and the body is fairly gimpy to me.
You're problem is the same as mine: we're too old! I may be wrong, but I bet you grew up in the late 80s/early 90s and as a result, you're used to a certain 'type' of Chaos.
The images and ethos of Chaos we grew up with was the Michael Moorcock inspiration, and if you've ever read what Rick Priestly has to say about it, you'll know what I mean. There was a certain intellectualism that was reflected in the Chaos designs back then. Bear in mind that the GW design team back then would have tapped into this.
These days, much of what made chaos, chaos has been lost. It's all about big monsters and big profits. There's never that ideological thing with chaos these days. There is no shades of grey, they're just pure evil. Does that make sense?
Buttlerthepug wrote: That "magic swirly thing" I believe is Vilitch... which is why, as I said, I find the special characters to be lackluster compared to their artwork.
Pretty sure this is Vilitch:
I guess he looks the part: caster thing (staff) + fighty buff armored guy
He does look the part, I love the whispering wizard part of that model but feel the overall model looks 'flat' and that the metal shoulder spike is ridiculous.
I suppose I'm hoping against reason that he's plastic...
You're problem is the same as mine: we're too old! I may be wrong, but I bet you grew up in the late 80s/early 90s and as a result, you're used to a certain 'type' of Chaos.
The images and ethos of Chaos we grew up with was the Michael Moorcock inspiration, and if you've ever read what Rick Priestly has to say about it, you'll know what I mean. There was a certain intellectualism that was reflected in the Chaos designs back then. Bear in mind that the GW design team back then would have tapped into this.
These days, much of what made chaos, chaos has been lost. It's all about big monsters and big profits. There's never that ideological thing with chaos these days. There is no shades of grey, they're just pure evil. Does that make sense?
The problem is the mass marketing to North America and how utterly dumb & silly we are about approching sexuality & sexual overtones due to the Political Correctness F tards screwing everything up.
For example, the Dark Elf 6th edition army book had to be re-edited to remove a bunch of the evil half-naked pixies due to US censorship.
After numerous complaints from uppity soccer-moms & the professional bers, GW stores over hear were forced to 'bookshelf' the Diaz Daemonettes so that Little Timmy wouldn't so easily see the boobies.
Hell, my one buddy had his Golden Demon piece refused entry at the '04 Canadian Games Day because it was in part deemed "too sexually explicit." (it was a heavily converted Slaanesh Daemon Prince). There were simply too many minors running about the event for it to be displayed.
We've become so over-sensitive that for example, Game of Thrones got a warning about how many times they used the C-word in Season 1!
Apparently dropping a million F-bombs in the US is fine and dandy, but the C-word is utterly evil?! (yes, the stupidity of it really does make my brain hurt!)
I'd never blame GW for the craptastic farce that Slaanesh has become. It's simply something in the North American psyche sees sex as absolutely inappropritate material for anyone under 18/19 or so, but promotion of mass violence (even towards women/children), blood & guts, etc... is something appropriate for 6-10 year olds.
I had multiple mothers call me awful names for example when they'd see things like the Witch Elves or KoS When I'd then ask 8-year-old Little Timmy what his fav video game was though, he'd scream something like "Call of Duty Modern Warfare OMG!" or "GTA San Andreas ROCKS!!!" or whatever super violent, bloody as feth game was new out in stores!
Rather, I blame the hyper-sensitive politically correct holes who think they should live our lives for us!
MeanGreenStompa wrote: He does look the part, I love the whispering wizard part of that model but feel the overall model looks 'flat' and that the metal shoulder spike is ridiculous.
I suppose I'm hoping against reason that he's plastic...
I have to agree the horns are out of control on this batch. The chariot especially. Couldn't they do Chaos in a more creative way? Horses with and extra set of limbs or developing carnivorous physical traits like sharpened teeth or elongated maws like a crocodile? I hate how homogenous the look is for an army that supposed to have variety and... well... Chaos. Chaos doesn't JUST mean spiky.
Buttlerthepug wrote: That "magic swirly thing" I believe is Vilitch... which is why, as I said, I find the special characters to be lackluster compared to their artwork.
Pretty sure this is Vilitch:
I guess he looks the part: caster thing (staff) + fighty buff armored guy
- Salvage
My apologies then , I must have misread that as I thought that was the model referred to... Serves me right for not having read every message whilst being half asleep. Either way, I find it weird that Vilitch is on his shoulder, and am still quite fond of the artwork as opposed to it. Perhaps after seeing the model in person my opinion will change.
Deadshot wrote: Bit late, don't know if its been mentioned or even relenvent or factual, but the army book cover appears to be bent, suggesting its back to paperback?
Thats a picture of a picture in white dwarf. The white dwarf page is bent.
Deadshot wrote: Bit late, don't know if its been mentioned or even relenvent or factual, but the army book cover appears to be bent, suggesting its back to paperback?
Thats a picture of a picture in white dwarf. The white dwarf page is bent.
Well, WoC were my first fantasy army, and I am excited by the new releases. I'm wondering what other stuff they'll do, hopefully archeon cheaper, and Eye of the Gods with more options. I also hope they keep Infernal Gateway, prob one of the deadliest spells in the game atm.
I also hope though that they have some shooting, all be it maruaders with slings would do. But that is a long shot. But here's hoping.
RITides, what is it about the Dragon Ogres? I think they look great-a thousand times better than the previous ones, and pretty spiffy looking-there will also be more heads and body parts.
What I'm not sure on is the "Vilitch" model: I put it in quotes because I don't see anything defining that model as Vilitch. I don't see a guy on his shoulders, I don't see a beard, I don't see anything showing that thing to be Vilitch. If it is, then GW failed from their concept art (It's still an awesome model, just don't see it as Vilitch).
Throgg is something that I could have said 'okay' to before, but I made my own from an Ogre Gorger with an axe added to his hand and some spikes and tusks, and i don't see a need to update him-especially with a $60 model in a cape.
Kanluwen wrote: I have to admit a bit of interest as to why Dragon Ogres equate to raptors in your mind, RiTides. Care to share? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to put you on the spot or anything here.
To my mind, they've always seemed more like they would be rather bulky abominations which deserve both the name "dragon" and "ogre".
They can be bulky abominations without having 4 sets of legs that are nearly the same size . Look at the excellent Dragon Ogre Shaggoth model! It's got T-rex front arms. This is how I envisioned dragon ogres to be, too, hence my converting them from cold one bodies (that I learned from someone on Dakka ) to keep the Shaggoth look.
I'm also not a fan of Throgg at all. Glad I got out before they put out those models...
(not that I'm not planning to get back into fantasy, with chaos dwarfs likely, from a variety of sources... but I just find these releases to be lackluster and cartoony is all)
Sorry, I didn't want to wade through 7 pages to find your reasoning for dislikes-especially since I think you must have had a blow to the head or something to dislike them.
I also made my own Dragon Ogres; mix of plastic ogres and 6th edition DE Cold Ones-fat and stupid mixed with, well, fat and stupid. Turned out pretty nicely, but I like GW's better than mine in this case-and that's coming from somebody who has been disappointed in most GW models recently.
Only thing I don't dig about this release is Vilitch, but I think it can make a passable Chaos Lord/Champion once I chop off the sorcerer part from his shoulder.
RiTides wrote: The reason I don't like the dragon ogres is the front legs are Huge, rather than looking more like raptors. Also, it was really easy to make decent dragon ogres before. See the following conversion, just black orcs and cold ones...
Spoiler:
So, that's why I don't like the new ones...
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I was planning on doing some dragon ogres and wasn't sure where to start. This is great. But i am going to have to find different heads as I don't want the distinct black orc helmets. They're awesome, but too orcy. I'll find something though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pretre wrote: It being a vortex beast, I imagine the magic swirly thing is probably a vortex. Just sayin'...
If I ever designed a vortex beast, the vortex would be in the center of the mass of tentacles like a mouth-- it then would grab people and deposit them into the vortex, nomming them all the way to the realm of chaos. it certainly wouldn't be bolted onto the thing's back.
unmercifulconker wrote: Can I ask who buys from GW directly anymore? Excluding kids parents of course
I make a point of only buying direct. Not just because the only other seller is a few miles away whereas GW is down the road, but its brand loyalty and pride.
You're problem is the same as mine: we're too old! I may be wrong, but I bet you grew up in the late 80s/early 90s and as a result, you're used to a certain 'type' of Chaos.
The images and ethos of Chaos we grew up with was the Michael Moorcock inspiration, and if you've ever read what Rick Priestly has to say about it, you'll know what I mean. There was a certain intellectualism that was reflected in the Chaos designs back then. Bear in mind that the GW design team back then would have tapped into this.
These days, much of what made chaos, chaos has been lost. It's all about big monsters and big profits. There's never that ideological thing with chaos these days. There is no shades of grey, they're just pure evil. Does that make sense?
The problem is the mass marketing to North America and how utterly dumb & silly we are about approching sexuality & sexual overtones due to the Political Correctness F tards screwing everything up.
For example, the Dark Elf 6th edition army book had to be re-edited to remove a bunch of the evil half-naked pixies due to US censorship.
After numerous complaints from uppity soccer-moms & the professional bers, GW stores over hear were forced to 'bookshelf' the Diaz Daemonettes so that Little Timmy wouldn't so easily see the boobies.
Hell, my one buddy had his Golden Demon piece refused entry at the '04 Canadian Games Day because it was in part deemed "too sexually explicit." (it was a heavily converted Slaanesh Daemon Prince). There were simply too many minors running about the event for it to be displayed.
We've become so over-sensitive that for example, Game of Thrones got a warning about how many times they used the C-word in Season 1!
Apparently dropping a million F-bombs in the US is fine and dandy, but the C-word is utterly evil?! (yes, the stupidity of it really does make my brain hurt!)
I'd never blame GW for the craptastic farce that Slaanesh has become. It's simply something in the North American psyche sees sex as absolutely inappropritate material for anyone under 18/19 or so, but promotion of mass violence (even towards women/children), blood & guts, etc... is something appropriate for 6-10 year olds.
I had multiple mothers call me awful names for example when they'd see things like the Witch Elves or KoS When I'd then ask 8-year-old Little Timmy what his fav video game was though, he'd scream something like "Call of Duty Modern Warfare OMG!" or "GTA San Andreas ROCKS!!!" or whatever super violent, bloody as feth game was new out in stores!
Rather, I blame the hyper-sensitive politically correct holes who think they should live our lives for us!
A very good post, and worthy of another debate in the OT forum.
I question why Chaos is getting another army book. In my view, they seem to be doing fine in 8th. I suppose I'm just bitter that Brettonians and even Wood Elves, have been overlooked again!
I question why Chaos is getting another army book. In my view, they seem to be doing fine in 8th. I suppose I'm just bitter that Brettonians and even Wood Elves, have been overlooked again!
I'm thinking from a sales point of view, that they decided WoC are something that needed little overhaul in terms of the army but was easy to tack on a lot of new units/big squiggly things. Wood Elves need a dark eldar level overhaul and I suspect the Brets need a similar level of review.
Im quite liking these new releases, I pretty much like it all.
unmercifulconker wrote: Can I ask who buys from GW directly anymore? Excluding kids parents of course
I do quite a lot, I like my models to arrive quickly or I pick them up from the local GW , I hate the two week plus that independent stockists make you wait.
Since Mealstrom went down i have not been able to find a decent place to get GW stuff without having to wait an age for it..
RiTides wrote: The reason I don't like the dragon ogres is the front legs are Huge, rather than looking more like raptors. Also, it was really easy to make decent dragon ogres before. See the following conversion, just black orcs and cold ones...
Spoiler:
So, that's why I don't like the new ones...
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I was planning on doing some dragon ogres and wasn't sure where to start. This is great. But i am going to have to find different heads as I don't want the distinct black orc helmets. They're awesome, but too orcy. I'll find something though.
No problem . Like I said, I found out about the conversion on Dakka, and it's great AND cheap! I'm not sure how much the new dragon ogres are, but I've gotten a lot of compliments on these in-person and it's so easy
Other than the paintjob the main suggestion folks had was for a different head. Also keep in mind that the Black Orcs box only comes with I believe 4 great weapons. There are 2 additional bodies that can hold a Really big weapon in one hand. So those can kind of go either way, and then there are 4 double-hand-weapon bodies. So, you have to get a bit creative if you want a Big unit all armed the same (but if you want 2 smaller units armed differently, it's ideal).
You can probably get the cold one bodies off ebay
@timetowaste85- Fair point, although I didn't have a blow to the head . I just didn't want to repeat the post either, hence my digging up the old one!
Loving the new stuff, though having read a lot of other people's verdicts I'd have to agree that the villitch model is not villitch it looks nothing like him from the concept art in the previous book unless they have updated the art work perhaps. The dragon ogres however are Steller and to be honest very tempted to get some.
Can I just ask though the big new beasty thing, is anyone else of the opinion that the arm looks like its out on a limb and kinda takes away from the model?
I shouldnt have been so hasty with my post, I understand people buying from their GW to support them, I do it myself monthly but my main bulk is discounted Just meant didnt think most peoples first thoughts would be to go to GW directly these days.
I don't get how people are liking this stuff, it's pretty much "Making people interesting is hard, so lets give the mortal warriors of chaos some daemons, that'll be easy!" I know that WoC armies aren't exclusively people but come on
EDIT: I don't mean for this post to come out so aggressively
The big red thing literally looks like it wouldn't be out of place in a Saturday morning cartoon. It actually doesn't look too unlike a Digimon in my opinion. I wonder if its attacks also have a name. For this one I'd imagine MEGA CLAW! Or maybe CHAOS BLAST! For the tentacled one you'd probably have to get more creative...
RiTides wrote:the main suggestion folks had was for a different head. Also keep in mind that the Black Orcs box only comes with I believe 4 great weapons.
Converting the other guys is really just a matter of turning the wrists and putting a brass rod in for the two handed weapon shaft (and maybe a greenstuff cloth wrap on it). I don't think it'll be that hard to make them all have great weapons. As long as the hands can get out in front of the body enough to hold the haft in front of the body, they'll be alright. Also, the people I game with are not sticklers for WYSIWYG, so if they have only one weapon and it's obviously big, there will be no problems even if it's not held by the model in two hands (though any I can convert, I will). And lately we've been playing more 4th and 5th edition than 8th, so we're all very flexible on both rules and WYSIWYG.
As for the heads, I'm really not sure. I'm going to poke around and try to figure something out and then start this project.
The shaggoth design from the last beast of chaos book release (6th ed) is a really great design and I was trying to figure out how to make some dragon ogres that would fit with it more than either the old metal ones or the conversions of ogres and lizardmen cold ones I saw. I don't know why I didn't think to take black orcs and dark elf raptors.
I'm still hoping these new ones are just a bad camera angle, but that's probably wishful thinking. It's entirely possible though, that their base size will grow as the new ones look really large.
Some info I just saw pop up on Chamber of the Everchosen. Some interesting stuff. Can definitely say I'm sad to see the forced challenge rule is still in effect... perhaps it will be slightly revised at the very least.
mad lamb2 wrote:
I'veread the BR in new WD and I can say that even the fact they have hidden all viable info that we can use, EOTG chart is still there but noew one (it even has +1 BS ???)... And we still have to issue challenges (it's clear when he hit Gobbo block and had to issuse 6 challenges).
Plus it is writtend under the chaos knight champion that he has to issue challenges)
Gorebeast chariot is T6 5W. Armour save is some insanse good. Cause it says that speed was traded for strength and bulk. And it has KB even on IHs.
For slaughterbrute it says that it's binded to the lord and has his WS. And it can buy extra limbs (so extra A?)
Other large monster has strange name and fires bound magic that makes every model in the unit pass T test or ide creating pawn near the unit.
Forsaken are M6 and D3+1 A with it's own D6 chart. One result is ASF.
As for the magic they showd only cards for signature. For nurgle itz's the 24" NO AS snpie.
FOr tzeentch is Blue fire. 24" D6 SD6 MM. tzeentch lore attribute is I think (it's really small picture) that for each succesfull cast you roll D6 and on 6 add PD in thje army pol).
Slaanesh signature is Lash of slaanesh. 24" straight line form the base in forward arc of the caster. Every model under the line receives S3 AP hit. Slaanesh lore attribute is +2 WS forthe caster untill the next magic phase.
The pictures are really small but I think I read it well.
Lord, exalted and sorcerers have the same stats line. Knights and hellstriders too.
I think with the current trend in WD, we can call ourselves lucky that GW hasn't pixeled all pics of new models for security reasons Who would have thought a year ago that battle reports are back to small kids grabbing a handful of models and shoving them across the board without rules ("finegaming"?)
Not a bad thought for the big red fella... but given the vague description of the destroyer (or rather, the fact that they could take several forms) I feel like there are other options I can go with that aren't so cartoony.
What bothers me about Throgg (other than the fact that I just don't like the sculpt...) is that I just don't know where they got their model direction from. It doesn't match the art at all. Is it just rushed out to have a model for everything in the 'dex before release?
After discussing that Throgg model with a few people yesterday, we all came to the consensus that it has an appearance similar to that of Thor, especially given the scales, hammer, and cape. Kind of comedic, but sadly true.
What bothers me about Throgg (other than the fact that I just don't like the sculpt...) is that I just don't know where they got their model direction from. It doesn't match the art at all. Is it just rushed out to have a model for everything in the 'dex before release?
What bothers me about Throgg (other than the fact that I just don't like the sculpt...) is that I just don't know where they got their model direction from. It doesn't match the art at all. Is it just rushed out to have a model for everything in the 'dex before release?
There may be new art in the book.
That's actually a good point. Who knows how they'll change the fluff of characters and what not.
To be honest, with that in mind, I'm a bit more excited about him. Perhaps this not so bestial Throgg would make it possible for a Black Library book! I loved the Wulfrik, Valkia, and Sigvald ones, and would love to see some on the other characters, especially Throgg!
unmercifulconker wrote: Is throgg intelligent and cunning? What makes him the king of trolls?
After rereading his fluff just now, he definitely does have a more cunning mindset, and is even described as "Troll King possessed of a grim and malevolent cunning..."
He has enough of a mind to think for himself and make an oath to rally the monsters of the Troll Country.
unmercifulconker wrote: The cape is a symbol, anyone can become the troll king, all they have to do is take up the cape, Throgg is the hero this troll country needs.
What bothers me about Throgg (other than the fact that I just don't like the sculpt...) is that I just don't know where they got their model direction from. It doesn't match the art at all. Is it just rushed out to have a model for everything in the 'dex before release?
maybe they've updated the lore and art for him? I know the art he currently has is good, but he was in the end, a chaos troll with a horny hat. I assume the direction they've taken with the miniature is to make him look like a hero, not another simple animal. I personally like it.
RiTides wrote: What bothers me about Throgg (other than the fact that I just don't like the sculpt...) is that I just don't know where they got their model direction from. It doesn't match the art at all. Is it just rushed out to have a model for everything in the 'dex before release?
Wouldn't be the first time they've done a model that didn't match older art in the army book/codex. Sometimes translating art to a sculpt just doesn't work and they go a different direction. Throgg doesn't look at all rushed, it simply looks like the sculptor went a different way.
Seems to me GW has said good bye to the old Grimdark days and taken a more cartoony and comic book look so they can market to children. They don't care what those that grew up with the game 20+ years ago. They want to market to your kids. I believe that to be partially the reason behind all the power creeps to where anyone can win with a GK list or on WHFB case DoC back in 7th. Make an overpowered army, and cool expensive models and the kiddies will buy them.
Voidbeast: Not bad, but not really my thing. I understand Chaos is supposed to be swirling madness, but these days it seems like GW only has two settings: Big Ole' Brute or mess that's impossible to visually identify.
Chariot: So close! I love the beast, it's perfect for Warriors of Chaos. It's something clearly unnatural, but not so alien that it can't fit into a crowd of mortal servants. Unfortunately, I don't like the men in the wagon. They look a little too little "brutal warriors of the north" and a little too much "Mad Max background character"
Dragon Ogres: Yes. Absolutely. Well done GW. I can see people's complaint about the stiff legs and rearing poses, but honestly... the options have been so poor for so long and these guys are otherwise so good I'm going to give them a gold star. They are exactly what I want Dragon Ogres to be, brutal and primitive looking. A pity they were removed from the Beastmen army- if these had come out two years ago I might not have shelved and given up on my army. At a minimum I could use them as replacements for the hated minotaurs or Razogors.
Big Red: He is what he is. Not particularly inspired as a demonic monster, but very well executed.
Ranked up mutant guys: Not impressed, but also don't care. My interest in Warriors of Chaos was never on these sorts.
Blue armor guy: Alright.
Lord: Again, not what I liked about Warriors, but competent enough.
Troll: Love it. I love to see GW playing with some of their old designs.
I've always like the marauder side of WoC more than the faceless-dudes in armor side, but as far as GW releases go I have to say I think this is a good one.
It looks much less thrown-together-at-the-last-minute than the Dark Angels release, anyway.
RiTides wrote: What bothers me about Throgg (other than the fact that I just don't like the sculpt...) is that I just don't know where they got their model direction from. It doesn't match the art at all. Is it just rushed out to have a model for everything in the 'dex before release?
Wouldn't be the first time they've done a model that didn't match older art in the army book/codex. Sometimes translating art to a sculpt just doesn't work and they go a different direction. Throgg doesn't look at all rushed, it simply looks like the sculptor went a different way.
Wasn't there some talk a while back that there were issues with other companies releasing figs based on the GW concept art and thus gaining the ability to sue GW once they release the actual fig? I know there are a couple Chinese figs floating around that are dead on with the previous book concept art for Throgg and Vilitch.
I am unsure as of the accuracy of these model titles, but I will give them regardless, in the hope of helping everyone out with what to name the gribblies.
The thing drawing the chaos chariot I believe is to be called a gorebeast. It seems they're going down the original names route again
The two monsters made from the same kit are apparently called, for the tentacled beasty, the Mutalith Vortex Beast, and for the Big ol' red one, you guys will love this, the Slaughterbrute. Don't that strike fear in your heart?!
These names are from an article I found on the internet. I wouldn't take them as their definite names, but they seem to fit? Website I got them from is here:
I hope it helps the discussion in some way. Personally, I like the Dragon Ogres, they're such nice sculpts, and I think their faces have resemblance to the current Shaggoth, which is a nice nod at a beautiful mini, instead of going the Ogre Kingdoms way. Terrified by how much these guys are going to cost though.
Throgg is cool, as is the Forsaken, but part of me had foolishly hoped that they'd make plastic Chosen. As is, 5 for £18 is too much.
unmercifulconker wrote: The cape is a symbol, anyone can become the troll king, all they have to do is take up the cape, Throgg is the hero this troll country needs.
What bothers me about Throgg (other than the fact that I just don't like the sculpt...) is that I just don't know where they got their model direction from. It doesn't match the art at all. Is it just rushed out to have a model for everything in the 'dex before release?
maybe they've updated the lore and art for him? I know the art he currently has is good, but he was in the end, a chaos troll with a horny hat. I assume the direction they've taken with the miniature is to make him look like a hero, not another simple animal. I personally like it.
wamphyri101 over on Warseer wrote:
Advance Orders 26th January for release on the 2nd of Feb
New stuff:
New Book
Magic Cards
Trogg
Vilitch
Lord Model
Forsaken
Dragon Ogres
Gorebeast Chariot/ Chariot
Mutalith Vortex Beast
Slaughterbrute
Natfka wrote:Stuff we know from White Dwarf:
Forsaken are a core choice. Forsaken are M6 and D3+1 A. Has it's own D6 chart. One result is ASF.
Chaos Knights now buy enscrolled weapons as an upgrade
WILL OF CHAOS is not listed beneath lords, heroes, knights etc. Only eye of the gods
Mutalith has a bound spell ranged 18’’
Seems it does a toughness test (model/unit?) and there is chances of chaos spawns being produced
Marauders did not seem to have marks
Slaughter beast is a rare choice and is a bound monster. It is bound to your lord and can have the lords WS.
Gorebeast chariot is T6 5W. high Armour save (2+?). It has KB even on Impact hits. Slower than a normal chariot
Dragon Ogres are on 50 x 75mm bases
Two book items are:
chalice of chaos
soul feeder gift
MAGIC
marked casters can choose a different lore or stick with their mark:
Tzeentch: Lore of Metal
Slaanesh: Lore of Shadow
Nurgle: Lore of Death
Sig Spell:
Tzeentch is Blue fire. 24" D6 SD6 MM.
Slaanesh is Lash of slaanesh. 24" straight line form the base in forward arc of the caster. Every model under the line receives S3 AP hit.
Nurgle Sig spell is a Template. You place breath tempalte at the base of the caster.
All models beneath are forced to test T or suffer 1 W with no AS.
Nurgle Attribute is that on a succsessful cast roll a D6. On roll of 6 the casters T an W are both increased by 1 to the end of the game.
Slaanesh Attribute is for every wound caused by a spell, roll a D6. if a 6 is rolled the caster recieves +1ws/+1A/+1I
Tzeentch Attribute is for every 6 rolled on a successful cast, that caster recieves an additional PD. But only that caster can use the additional dice.
Chaos Knights now buy enscrolled weapons as an upgrade
Why do people have so much trouble with the word, "ensorcelled"? It means enchanted, bewitched, as in they are magical weapons. You know, it's related to the word, "sorcery". Spelling can be easy when you know the meaning of words.
i am not a fantasy player but always wanted a Warriors of Chaos army. I might start playing Fantasy with this release. So excuse my noobness but is a new codex coming out?
Chaos Knights now buy enscrolled weapons as an upgrade
Why do people have so much trouble with the word, "ensorcelled"? It means enchanted, bewitched, as in they are magical weapons. You know, it's related to the word, "sorcery". Spelling can be easy when you know the meaning of words.
Same reason people say Turrent, Halbred, etc. People just misread things, and it sticks. Even words in common(ish) useage.
Chaos Knights now buy enscrolled weapons as an upgrade
Why do people have so much trouble with the word, "ensorcelled"? It means enchanted, bewitched, as in they are magical weapons. You know, it's related to the word, "sorcery". Spelling can be easy when you know the meaning of words.
Chaos Knights now buy enscrolled weapons as an upgrade
Why do people have so much trouble with the word, "ensorcelled"? It means enchanted, bewitched, as in they are magical weapons. You know, it's related to the word, "sorcery". Spelling can be easy when you know the meaning of words.
It's a common phenomenon since Rouge Trader days
Could be that, instead of skulls, everything will be covered in scrolls/purity seals from now on.
While playing Space Marine on Xbox I actually saw someone with the gamer tag, "Rouge Trader". I had a good laugh over that one. Maybe that gamer is a cosmetics salesman.
I mostly like the new Warriors of Chaos stuff so far even from the somewhat blurry photos. Tomorrow night we'll get a good look at them when they go up for Advance Order. WoC is my oldest GW collection so I'm sure I'll get something from the new kits to add to it.
El-Torrminator wrote: The slaughterbrute looks a lot better from that angle. Still not too keen on the Forsaken though there's some nice individual bitz there.
Yeah, the Slaughterbrute looks MUCH better. I thought it looked pretty bad from the first pics, but now it actually looks pretty damn good.
Those forsaken are truly terrible. I am so glad that the warrior models don't seem to be being redone as a non-mutated kit in the same style as the forsaken would be such a step backwards in model quality.
And that slaughterbeast is awful. 3 tongues? And what is up with it's malformed "hand/paw/wtf"?
For the Forsaken the problem'll be the paint-job. Get a good painter to take a crack at them so they're not just "Black Armour/Pale Mutations" and you'll get a good result.
H.B.M.C. wrote:For the Forsaken the problem'll be the paint-job. Get a good painter to take a crack at them so they're not just "Black Armour/Pale Mutations" and you'll get a good result.
It would be beyond my abilities to make those look good
Kroothawk wrote:The Slaughter Brute comes with an alternative, no-tongue head:
I actually dig the Forsaken, like someone else said, give them a different paint scheme and they will look better. Pale skin and black armor is a Dark Eldar thing, it doesn't work for these dudes. At the very least, I'm stoked for what gribbly bits will be on the sprue.
I'm a fan of this release, but will only purchase the Army Book and magic cards and go from there, depending on what will compliment my Beastmen.
NELS1031 wrote: I actually dig the Forsaken, like someone else said, give them a different paint scheme and they will look better. Pale skin and black armor is a Dark Eldar thing, it doesn't work for these dudes.
Pale skin and black leather is today, what GW's red phase was in the 90s:
Chaos Warriors, Hobbit Goblins and Trolls, Dark Eldar, Minotaurs, Skaven, Ogres, Vampires ...
Looks terrible every time but is ... iconic I guess
The Slaughterbrute could be used as a Giant Chaos Spawn/Spined Beast for 40k?
Also the forsaken are good conversion fodder for Lost & the Damned muties! (cultists?) Looks like they had too many rolls on the Realm of Chaos gift table, hehe.
Thing about the Slaughterbrute is that its giant lobster/genestealer claws evoke Slaanesh more than Khorne?
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) get silly useless piles of 
tards screwing everything up.
