Hello there, my name’s Tom. A little bit of information about myself, I paint warhammer and if you’re reading this you probably know that and are wanting to hire my services. Well let me tell you how I work. I buy the model, paint it and post it to you then you receive a brand new, excellently painted model for cheaper that most other painters would be willing to charge.
I have a set price of £10 per model, or unit rounding down to the smallest number the unit can hold, (Postage is included in that price) on top of the price of the model itself.
Ie: If you want a professionally painted unit of tyranid warriors I will charge you £38.50,
That’s £28.50 for the models themselves
£10 for painting and postage
I you wanted a single character as a centerpiece I’d divide the price of the unit by the number of models within it rounding up to the nearest ten.
Ie: a unit of warrior’s would consist of three models and would cost you £38.50
A single warrior would cost you £12.90 (38.5/3 = 12.83.3333 rounded UP to the nearest ten that’s 12.9 thus £12.90).
So if you want a model, send me an email with the details of what you want and the colors in which you would like them to be painted (my email is TyranidPainter@gmail.com), I collect the model’s, paint them, send you a pic of how they look and if you’re happy with them then I send you my paypal info and when I receive payment I’ll post the model/s asap.
I paint all races apart from chaos and daemons but I can only claim to be able to paint tyranids to a high standard.
I accept payment via paypal only.

Example of my work:

as a word of advice, If you're going to advertise your services/portfolio, get a light-box set up, even if it's just construction paper stapled together, and get pictures of more than two models.

Next up, bases. That will make or break how seriously you are taken. If my eyes aren't lying to me, then I can see you have awesome freehand work, but the pictures don't do it much justice. head on over to the tutorials section on how to take pictures, and welcome to dakkadakka

 poda_t wrote:
as a word of advice, If you're going to advertise your services/portfolio, get a light-box set up, even if it's just construction paper stapled together, and get pictures of more than two models.

Next up, bases. That will make or break how seriously you are taken. If my eyes aren't lying to me, then I can see you have awesome freehand work, but the pictures don't do it much justice. head on over to the tutorials section on how to take pictures, and welcome to dakkadakka

Thank you. I very much appreciate your advice and I will take action on it. However I am just starting up this little business of mine and I am hoping that my cheap pricing is going to attract just as many customers as my quality does. I find it ridiculous how people can charge stupid amounts just for models painted to a professional standard. I hope to be the first in a long line of painters offering this quality to those who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it x x

Good luck to you mate and well done for the sensible pricing. Personally I won't be requiring your services as I'm a chaos player. Lol. Nah seriously tho good luck

TyranidPainter wrote:
Thank you. I very much appreciate your advice and I will take action on it. However I am just starting up this little business of mine and I am hoping that my cheap pricing is going to attract just as many customers as my quality does. I find it ridiculous how people can charge stupid amounts just for models painted to a professional standard. I hope to be the first in a long line of painters offering this quality to those who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it x x

There are lots of other people out there that offer what you do, a lot of them post here on Dakka.
I don't know if Silver is your real name, but me personally, if I conduct business with someone, I prefer to know their real name; not some online handle. Also, I know this will sound harsh, but those are not "professional standard" and it is best to avoid labeling yourself as that. Think back to the last episode of season 3 on Game of Thrones, when Tywin Lannister says, "Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no true king." Kind of the same thing.
Also, your payment method is sketchy as hell; look around some other commission painters websites to see how they do it.

ScootyPuffJunior
535574 5771115
6c09c6aed7756370a1364aef1163e8e3.png wrote:

TyranidPainter 535574
5771052 null wrote:Thank you. I very much appreciate your advice and I will
take action on it. However I am just starting up this little business of
mine and I am hoping that my cheap pricing is going to attract just as
many customers as my quality does. I find it ridiculous how people can
charge stupid amounts just for models painted to a professional
standard. I hope to be the first in a long line of painters offering
this quality to those who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it x
x

There are lots of other people out there that offer what you do, a lot
of them post here on Dakka.
I don't know if Silver is your real name, but me personally, if I
conduct business with someone, I prefer to know their real name; not
some online handle. Also, I know this will sound harsh, but those are
not "professional standard" and it is best to avoid labeling yourself as
that. Think back to the last episode of season 3 on Game of Thrones,
when Tywin Lannister says, "Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no
true king." Kind of the same thing.
Also, your payment method is sketchy as hell; look around some other
commission painters websites to see how they do it.

Maybe it's a bad camera but these models (the tyranid warriors at least) are painted to a better standard to the models in their codex and are certainly better painted than what other people would call professional standard. Oh and no, my name isn't Silver. It's Tom x x

A few bits of advice

Setup a website and do a blog on painting - do guides etc
Establish a Social Media presence Facebook,twitter, Google Plus and Pinterest
Invest in a lightbox so you can show good images
Don't refer to the paint job as cheap - Cheap is a negative word use positive words life affordable

Actually work out your costs -
Once you work out cost of paint
Cost of postage
Cost of brushes
Cost of time

I don't think that there will be much profit left from £10

Also you need a portfolio to show clients and as I want to offer advice and not sugar coat it I would not buy any of the models you have shown above as the quality is not good enough when I can pay a small bit more and get much better . Eg http://www.golempaintingstudio.co.uk/pricing.htm#

Hope the advice helps
Zoxy

Dude, no. Just no.

These are not good examples to get running with commissions.

In my honest opinion you need to practice a lot, lot more.

In particular; painting 'in the lines' - the bolter on the terminator is particularly jarring. The union flag is very shoddy too - practice straight even lines.

Consistency looks thick; this can help with opacity (I often use thick coats) but it's uneven. Base rims need sanding or filing down and are great places to practice solid smooth coats.

Not quite sure what you think you're doing with the feathering on the 'nid carapaces. Done properly it should look like this:




That is 4 layers; Hormagaunt purple, 50-50 with SW grey, and pure SW grey. Shade by feathering in thin black. Thin paint, fine brush, fast strokes. The tail took about 15 minutes to highlight. You appear to be trying to use 'out of the pot' colours. Thin it, layer it on. You should leave very little paint with a stroke; you want it to be translucent and dry almost instantly. Don't try and hit a highlight in one stroke.

Now, pricing. You're being extremely unrealistic, even for a poor schoolkid. Just cleanup, assembly and priming a unit of 3 'nid warriors is likely to take in the regions of an hour and a half. Bit more if you do the basing first (I do). Postage in the UK is now mental - properly packed you're looking medium parcel (about £6.50 by the time you have a box and some packing material in the equation).

Painting to a basic tabletop level should be around 4-5 hours for the unit, if you're fast (and doing what the market dictates as a basic job).

Crunch the numbers and see if it's worth your while.

At present, I would say your standard is not good enough. A very good acid test is to ebay models. If they go for more than retail, your work has added value to them (and you stand a chance of being paid for said work). If they go for less, then your work is REMOVING value, and you're not likely to get customers, and those that do give you a try may not be happy.

I don't mean to sound harsh here, but calling these minis "professionally painted" is pretty far from the truth. The barrels aren't drilled out, I can see mold lines, the bases are completely blank, and the it looks like the paint has been applied too thick. I appreciate the effort to start a money making venture, but if these are the results of your work, your customers are going to want their money back, just sayin.....

I agree, these are not professionally painted, maybe wait a but to improve, pick up a few more techniques and practice neatness then start commission painting if you're still interested. Sorry if you've not quite got the response you had wanted...

TyranidPainter wrote:
A single warrior would cost you £12.90 (38.5/3 = 12.83.3333 rounded UP to the nearest ten that’s 12.9 thus £12.90).

You may want to revise your pricing here. If the kit it costing you 9.50 per warrior just to buy and selling at 12.90, UK second class postage you are looking at 2.60ish before boxing, wrapping etc. Which means you make 80p on the warrior to cover your time, paints, glue, boxing and packing materials. This would end up with you working at a loss

TyranidPainter wrote:
Maybe it's a bad camera but these models (the tyranid warriors at least) are painted to a better standard to the models in their codex and are certainly better painted than what other people would call professional standard. Oh and no, my name isn't Silver. It's Tom x x

I'm sorry, we really don't mean to sound harsh, but that's really not true. What you've painted isn't bad, but it's not near what most other people would call professional (not unless you mean those horrible ebay ads that say "ZOMG AWESOME PROFESSIONAL PAINTED!! " but actually sell for a fraction of what UNPAINTED models get).

As for being a higher standard than the GW models, your models aren't bad, but you have a long way to go before they're as good as this...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I recommend you check out some of the competition for commission painting. Like this...

http://ifalna.webs.com/prices.htm

Gives you an idea of the sort of quality and pricing people are asking.

I appriciate all your advice, even if some of it did borderline insulting. I expected the odd one or two negative comment but to have so many in such a short space of time....way to shoot me down guys! I guess I was blinded by pride (though looking at a couple of images people have posted on here I'm not the only one). However whilst some of you are saying I'm over selling my quality others are saying I'm chargeing to little and since my work is epic, some of you have even said as much, if I were to keep the prices the same (I appriciate all your advice but I know what I'd doing) but take away the word professional, then would you agree that I'm being more than reasonable? Oh and to the previous commentor, whilst the model in that picture has superiour highlighting and feathering to mine the detail is no where near as good. GW paintes can't even add pupils to the nids eyes unless it's on the gun where there's a much bigger surface area x x


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sub-zero wrote:
I don't mean to sound harsh here, but calling these minis "professionally painted" is pretty far from the truth. The barrels aren't drilled out, I can see mold lines, the bases are completely blank, and the it looks like the paint has been applied too thick. I appreciate the effort to start a money making venture, but if these are the results of your work, your customers are going to want their money back, just sayin.....

Rite well A: barrels arn't supposed to be drilled out and B: I'm very impressed you can see mold lines on these pic's 'cos I can't even see them on the models. So either you've got super human eyesite or I'm blind and if I'm blind that makes these models even more spectacular *rolls eyes*.

I think it's more of a choice that they don't add pupils. To y'know, make them seem less human. I'd say your work is tabletop standard. Maybe advertise it as such?

You might want to get up to Warhammer World and have a look at the pieces in the flesh. I honestly don't think you're up to par.

I spy with my super-human eye a mould line...

And 'eavy metal are very capable of painting eyes like those...

I have watched this thread since you've posted it Nid painter..and Have thought about what i wanted to say. I am a small time local and ONLY local commission painter. My guys love my work, They never stop buying models, so I don't run out of business. I am very cheap and only recently had to starting charging a bit more due to materials going up in cost. I would like to see some more of your work before you call yourself a Professional.I know what kind of work i can do (my photo skills however blow) And know i can paint Damn Good..however I will not call myself Professional until i am able to do what I see the big dogs in this hobby do.

Your replies to the posters are a bit Snippy. Honestly, I'm going to put it short and sweet. If you cannot take the negative feed back, Don't post sub par work. OR..get thicker skin. No I am by no means getting nasty, but there is a reason I as a small business have not gone On the internet for work.. I don't feel I am good enough yet. (Although my large customer base says different) Honestly, You need to get some basics down. Wash, shading..BASING..basing is almost a must..UNLESS the customer does not want to pay for it. Again please I am not basing your skill, just giving you straight criticism from a fellow painter. Your nid is ok, Although i don't like the cartoon eyes on it. The Terminator however, i would never pay for that. Yes The free hand is a good job, however, everything else is not finished on it. A little helpful hint if i may,,take ALL criticism as a learning tool, and a little bit of humility goes a very long way. I wish you the best in your Painting career



Added: Holy Christ... Your prices..for what you can do..are..wow.. Dude, I only charge 4$ per 25mm base 5.50$ based. Everything is at a High quality table top. Your charging 13.12$ American dollars Per figure ..that's..wow My hq's are my best quality and a 25$ flat fee no matter what it is...again..just wow..

TyranidPainter wrote:
I appriciate all your advice, even if some of it did borderline insulting. I expected the odd one or two negative comment but to have so many in such a short space of time....way to shoot me down guys! I guess I was blinded by pride (though looking at a couple of images people have posted on here I'm not the only one). However whilst some of you are saying I'm over selling my quality others are saying I'm chargeing to little and since my work is epic, some of you have even said as much, if I were to keep the prices the same (I appriciate all your advice but I know what I'd doing) but take away the word professional, then would you agree that I'm being more than reasonable? Oh and to the previous commentor, whilst the model in that picture has superiour highlighting and feathering to mine the detail is no where near as good. GW paintes can't even add pupils to the nids eyes unless it's on the gun where there's a much bigger surface area x x


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sub-zero wrote:
I don't mean to sound harsh here, but calling these minis "professionally painted" is pretty far from the truth. The barrels aren't drilled out, I can see mold lines, the bases are completely blank, and the it looks like the paint has been applied too thick. I appreciate the effort to start a money making venture, but if these are the results of your work, your customers are going to want their money back, just sayin.....

Rite well A: barrels arn't supposed to be drilled out and B: I'm very impressed you can see mold lines on these pic's 'cos I can't even see them on the models. So either you've got super human eyesite or I'm blind and if I'm blind that makes these models even more spectacular *rolls eyes*.

Winterdyne's Tyranids are wonderful... that carnifex is part of a Tyranid vs. Imperial Guard Titan that is nothing short amazing, go look in his CoolMiniOrNot gallery and see for yourself. Just because you can put a dot on a tyranid eye doesn't mean you can paint better than the "Eavy Metal team (and while they are talented, there are lots of other painters our there that a much better). Most people (myself included) don't give tyranids pupils because there is no indication in any official artwork that they have them; they're alien bug-monsters, why would they have pupils? The biomorphs have Eye of Sauron-like reptilian eyes just so they look unnerving, again going back to the alien bug-monster theme.

Also, if you want to be taken seriously as a businessman, going on a defensive rant full of bad grammar and misspelled words because people (including an actual professional commission painter) gave you honest advice is not the way to do it. If you want to be treated as a professional, try acting like a professional.

Lastly, bolter barrels should drilled out; every studio picture GW has of a gun has the barrel drilled out. Superhuman eyes are not needed to see the mold lines on those models. The tyranid in the first picture has a nasty one running the the left arm holding the biomorph and one on top of the tail. The space marine has one on the lightening claw running from the thumb all the way up the arm and another one on the storm bolter muzzle and the piece under it.

TyranidPainter wrote:
I appriciate all your advice, even if some of it did borderline insulting. I expected the odd one or two negative comment but to have so many in such a short space of time....way to shoot me down guys! I guess I was blinded by pride (though looking at a couple of images people have posted on here I'm not the only one). However whilst some of you are saying I'm over selling my quality others are saying I'm chargeing to little and since my work is epic, some of you have even said as much, if I were to keep the prices the same (I appriciate all your advice but I know what I'd doing) but take away the word professional, then would you agree that I'm being more than reasonable? Oh and to the previous commentor, whilst the model in that picture has superiour highlighting and feathering to mine the detail is no where near as good. GW paintes can't even add pupils to the nids eyes unless it's on the gun where there's a much bigger surface area x x


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sub-zero wrote:
I don't mean to sound harsh here, but calling these minis "professionally painted" is pretty far from the truth. The barrels aren't drilled out, I can see mold lines, the bases are completely blank, and the it looks like the paint has been applied too thick. I appreciate the effort to start a money making venture, but if these are the results of your work, your customers are going to want their money back, just sayin.....

Rite well A: barrels arn't supposed to be drilled out and B: I'm very impressed you can see mold lines on these pic's 'cos I can't even see them on the models. So either you've got super human eyesite or I'm blind and if I'm blind that makes these models even more spectacular *rolls eyes*.

Do you ever watch ramsay's kitchen nightmares? What you are doing now is really similar to what the owners and chefs on that show do. You're in denial and you aren't listening to perfectly good advice that people are giving you. You're already lashing out and attacking people who are critical of your work.

This is a huge no-no. You don't have to take their advice, but you do have to accept it. You're making yourself a product with this endeavor and you need to do so with some grace and humility. This kind of reaction and anger towards your ostensible customers is a hallmark of all of the sketchiest internet businesses. This is not the image you want.

That is hardly professionally painted stuff OP. Look at the face of the SM, it isn't even shaded or layered or anything. Come to think of it, nothing looks like it is, it's all just flat. They aren't even based, technically my local GW wouldn't even let you field the models in their store for a pick-up game, LOL.

Those models are in the preliminary stages of development, they aren't anything near to what I'd even decide is my basic tabletop standard for my own miniatures. You have a mountain to climb in terms of skill, and any discerning customer will recognize this immediately.

You may think the criticism coming from myself and others in this thread to be harsh, but as potential customers whom you are pitching your business to, we have the right to say what we see.

ME personally would have started with something like this...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/441778.page

I started by getting others on here to look at my work.. I was (and still am) painting models for others ,call it commission work, by no stretch of the word Professionally Painted..

.Dude regarding molding lines... Oh i must have missed that one, would have been alitte better, not ... PROVE IT ...SHOW ME (which is the sort of feeling I got from your reply)

and yes Some people will not like your work, others will love it, get thick skined.. Thank them for there feedback even if you don't agree with them.(not directed at you Brother Chaplain Kage)

I hope you have learnt for this,
as a side note... my current project... painting Marneus Calgar, the hours i've spent so far works out to about $2 per hour... Can't live of that sort of wage...

Kind regards Daniel

Take another like at your models…
Frist pic
Looking straight at it.
Mold lines. On tail plus what looks like left over sprue attachment .
Left upper arm, right lower arm mold lines.
Barrel of gun, what looks like left over sprue attachment.
2nd pic, assuming it’s the same model.
3rd pic. Both left and right upper arms , mold lines around bottom finger/claw.
Left lower arm , mold lines down arm. (+ tail if this is same model)
5th pic both tail and gun, what looks like left over sprue attachment .
.
Nope you’re not bitching, sarcasm like pornography is subjective. And what one thinks another doesn't.. (( stop rolling eyes and look) this is sarcasm)

TyranidPainter wrote:
I appriciate all your advice, even if some of it did borderline insulting. I expected the odd one or two negative comment but to have so many in such a short space of time....way to shoot me down guys!

While criticism can be hard to take, commission painting is a tough gig to get into, and it's well worth taking the comments on board before trying to push yourself out there.

However whilst some of you are saying I'm over selling my quality others are saying I'm chargeing to little

The two aren't mutually exclusive ideas. Aside from the lack of basing and the undrilled storm bolter barrels, your models look an ok table-top standard... and people can see that in the pictures. Trying to build them up to be better than 'eavy Metal standard just isn't going to fly.

But regardless of the quality, charging too little for your work isn't actually a good thing. Anyone who has been around this hobby for any length of time has seen any number of businesses that were set up by people who thought they might just make some cash in their spare time and aimed to undercut everyone else in the market, only to find that working for that little return was just unsustainable... and if you charge too little, that can actually put customers off. Low prices udnercut the perception of quality.

Oh and to the previous commentor, whilst the model in that picture has superiour highlighting and feathering to mine the detail is no where near as good. GW paintes can't even add pupils to the nids eyes unless it's on the gun where there's a much bigger surface area x x

Don't confuse 'don't' with 'can't'... An alien creature not having pupils is hardly a sign of a low-quality paintjob.

A: barrels arn't supposed to be drilled out and B: I'm very impressed you can see mold lines on these pic's 'cos I can't even see them on the models. So either you've got super human eyesite or I'm blind and if I'm blind that makes these models even more spectacular *rolls eyes*.

There's certainly no 'rule' that says that barrels should be drilled... but it's a little detail that makes a huge difference to the finished piece, and on commercially painted minis most customers will expect it.

Ok well I'm not offended by people comments on my painting and I don't know where people would have got that from as I havn't bitched or moanf at all and I have certainly been accepting peoples critisizm. I am however offended by people surgesting that I'm bitching and moaning. WHERE! I don't appriciate people making me out to be a, for lack of a better word, whimp!

I am not a "professional" by any means, I don't do commission work, I just paint for the love of painting, but this is the level of painting I would expect from an up and coming commission painter: http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/365132-Angel%205.html

Yes, that's from my own gallery, so I know a thing or two about painting.

Ok well I'm not offended by people comments on my painting and I don't know where people would have got that from as I havn't bitched or moanf at all and I have certainly been accepting peoples critisizm. I am however offended by people surgesting that I'm bitching and moaning. WHERE! I don't appriciate people making me out to be a, for lack of a better word, whimp!

A word of advice, 'Nid painter: Leave this thread to die. You obviously cannot handle critical feedback, and you're getting very snippy/rude. That isn't a good thing. This is the internet, and you need to build up a good reputation if you want to get commissions. Getting down-and-dirty and arguing with people won't do this. With every angry response you put on here, you lose a lot of credibility. What if potential customers come across this thread?

And to add to what everyone else is saying, you really need to do some hard and thorough research of the competition, you need to invest in a good photography setup, you need to improve your painting skills, and you need to make a very careful analysis of how much profit you can expect to make. Mini painting on commission isn't easy, and frankly isn't all that fun, so you need to be getting good reimbursement for your time.

If you have any questions, PM me.

~Tim?

You may want to include where you post to. As I understand it, if I were to buy an emperors champion painted from you, it would probably end up costing you more in postage fees to send it here than the £10 covers.

For the record, I like your paintwork. I don't know if it's professional or not but it's certainly much better than I am capable of at the moment.

After fully reading the entire thread, there's some really sound advice being said, and it's good to know you are taking it on board. You could make some money if you were to adapt some of the suggestions being put forward.

This is better than my paint jobs, but only just. Nowhere near the 'Eavy metal or professional painting level.

You are coming off rather arrogant and insecure though I am sure this is not your intention.

You paint well, but you should probably take on board some of the constructive crititique in this thread.

MerkQT wrote:
You may want to include where you post to. As I understand it, if I were to buy an emperors champion painted from you, it would probably end up costing you more in postage fees to send it here than the £10 covers.

For the record, I like your paintwork. I don't know if it's professional or not but it's certainly much better than I am capable of at the moment.

After fully reading the entire thread, there's some really sound advice being said, and it's good to know you are taking it on board. You could make some money if you were to adapt some of the suggestions being put forward.

Thank you. It's refreshing to hear some sound advice that isn't worded in a judgemental....errm....style. We need more people like you over here. Why did you ever leave our empire. We're lost without you :( x x


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
This is better than my paint jobs, but only just. Nowhere near the 'Eavy metal or professional painting level.

You are coming off rather arrogant and insecure though I am sure this is not your intention.

You paint well, but you should probably take on board some of the constructive crititique in this thread.

Thank you. I will take their messages on board but it just came as a shock that they were being so hostile when so many local people have complimented me so much. Though I take full blame for allowing it to escalate so much. There is one person in particular I hope I havn't offended. I'll pm him. Thanks again x x

TyranidPainter wrote:
Thank you. I will take their messages on board but it just came as a shock that they were being so hostile when so many local people have complimented me so much.

Welcome to the internet. You're not the first to be caught out by that.

Not the hostility... for the most part, poeple weren't being hostile at all, just offering criticism. But when someone's hobby exposure has mostly been a local community where their work is better than those around them, it can come as a rude shock to step out into the world and discover that they're suddenly just a very small fish in a very big pond. I went through a similar thing myself, many, many years ago, thinking my work was all that, and then moved to a larger city where all of a sudden I was just average...

The trick is just to take that as a push to improve, rather than be put off by it.

TyranidPainter wrote:

MerkQT wrote:
You may want to include where you post to. As I understand it, if I were to buy an emperors champion painted from you, it would probably end up costing you more in postage fees to send it here than the £10 covers.

For the record, I like your paintwork. I don't know if it's professional or not but it's certainly much better than I am capable of at the moment.

After fully reading the entire thread, there's some really sound advice being said, and it's good to know you are taking it on board. You could make some money if you were to adapt some of the suggestions being put forward.

Thank you. It's refreshing to hear some sound advice that isn't worded in a judgemental....errm....style. We need more people like you over here. Why did you ever leave our empire. We're lost without you :( x x

They're only "judgmental" to you because you disagree with what was said.

Ok well I'm not offended by people comments on my painting and I don't know where people would have got that from as I havn't bitched or moanf at all and I have certainly been accepting peoples critisizm. I am however offended by people surgesting that I'm bitching and moaning. WHERE! I don't appriciate people making me out to be a, for lack of a better word, whimp!

No said you were complaining or moaning or called you a wimp. You took a defensive stance; claiming that while you appreciated the feedback you essentially didn't need because you "know what you are doing" and when someone pointed out a bunch of mold lines you denied they were there (they are) and followed it with a sarcastic comment with a *rolls eyes* to go along with it. On top of that you said your tyranid model had "detail nowhere near as good" as a tyranid model that was part of a award-winning diorama (it earned a silver at 2012 UK Golden Demon contest: http://www.coolminiornot.com/314943?browseid=5836948). All of those things are childish and unprofessional.

So, you are either trolling (if that's the case, it isn't welcome here) or not ready to handle anything other than overwhelming praise. Either way, just get over it and move on.

EDIT: Things were posted while I was typing this, so let me clarify: I hope you realized the error of your ways and please continue to post here with new pictures, updates, whatever. It is one of the best ways to improve, trust me. Almost every painter nowadays has that moment of clarity when they first post their stuff on the internet and the biting reality of "oh, people don't think this is as good as I do..." sets in. It sucks, but we all go through it and it just make you strive harder to improve.

 insaniak wrote:

TyranidPainter wrote:
Thank you. I will take their messages on board but it just came as a shock that they were being so hostile when so many local people have complimented me so much.

Welcome to the internet. You're not the first to be caught out by that.

Not the hostility... for the most part, poeple weren't being hostile at all, just offering criticism. But when someone's hobby exposure has mostly been a local community where their work is better than those around them, it can come as a rude shock to step out into the world and discover that they're suddenly just a very small fish in a very big pond. I went through a similar thing myself, many, many years ago, thinking my work was all that, and then moved to a larger city where all of a sudden I was just average...

The trick is just to take that as a push to improve, rather than be put off by it.

Then I shall seek to do that. Thanks for understanding x x

Gota say I'm with the masses here... The word professional either needs to vanish, or the standard of work needs to accurately reflect the word.

I will also say that I can't see any detail in your work... not because it doesn't exist.. but because of the poor photography. Detail may or may not be present in your work.. at this point I cannot say, there is no evidence to suggest either way.
But being as you regard yourself as a professional.... I guess you do know how to take a photo... as its a major part of the profession afterall. And must assume that youve got bad photo's on purpose in order to hide poor painting.

I realise that I'm making rather harsh, almost nasty assumptions there, but as a consumer, thats what we do.

Advice; get better at photography, and THEN you will find out what people actualy think of your paint work, and be able to rate it on the table top ---> showcase quality scale and apply a reasonable price vs your competing commission painters.
Assuming you do all that and succeed, getting custom and work load, undercutting the competition would result in crazy amounts of work load, and be the downfall of your venture when you cant manage the work load you took on when so eager, then to find that your working all day every day for pennies on the hour because you didnt price to the market.
Although from what i said about assuming bad paint becuase of bad photo's means youve priced approriately... allthough id want to pay less than retail for anything that needs stripping which is what people will assume from the lack of picture quality.
If your work is genuinly good, you dont need to tell us... it will speak volumes for itself.do yourself a favor and get pic's that allow it to show itself off. If you want to offer professional service, you need to get professional with the picture part too.

Actually finishing them might be a good start too, even the dakka showcase requires models ot be based before theyre considered finished. These are work in progress shots at best. So we still dont know what your product remotely looks like, and you would have us believe its describable as 'professional'... for the record... i would consider 'awesome paint job' and others that most people here can reel off a list of to be the professionals here, this is strictly amateur at best.

HairySticks wrote:
Gota say I'm with the masses here... The word professional either needs to vanish, or the standard of work needs to accurately reflect the word.

I will also say that I can't see any detail in your work... not because it doesn't exist.. but because of the poor photography. Detail may or may not be present in your work.. at this point I cannot say, there is no evidence to suggest either way.
But being as you regard yourself as a professional.... I guess you do know how to take a photo... as its a major part of the profession afterall. And must assume that youve got bad photo's on purpose in order to hide poor painting.

I realise that I'm making rather harsh, almost nasty assumptions there, but as a consumer, thats what we do.

Advice; get better at photography, and THEN you will find out what people actualy think of your paint work, and be able to rate it on the table top ---> showcase quality scale and apply a reasonable price vs your competing commission painters.
Assuming you do all that and succeed, getting custom and work load, undercutting the competition would result in crazy amounts of work load, and be the downfall of your venture when you cant manage the work load you took on when so eager, then to find that your working all day every day for pennies on the hour because you didnt price to the market.
Although from what i said about assuming bad paint becuase of bad photo's means youve priced approriately... allthough id want to pay less than retail for anything that needs stripping which is what people will assume from the lack of picture quality.
If your work is genuinly good, you dont need to tell us... it will speak volumes for itself.do yourself a favor and get pic's that allow it to show itself off. If you want to offer professional service, you need to get professional with the picture part too.

Actually finishing them might be a good start too, even the dakka showcase requires models ot be based before theyre considered finished. These are work in progress shots at best. So we still dont know what your product remotely looks like, and you would have us believe its describable as 'professional'... for the record... i would consider 'awesome paint job' and others that most people here can reel off a list of to be the professionals here, this is strictly amateur at best.

I wish I could afford a better camera but these photo's were taken off of a relatives Iphone so I doubt better picture quality is needed. And my work is priced so low for a reason. I think it's crule for people to charge high prices for something they enjoy doing anyway. The poorer classes (like myself) should also have access to finely painted models in my oppinion. If the work load becomes excessive I set them up in ques and close commissions when they're full untill I'm done. And yes, your comment was extreamly harsh. You can see the detail on there photo's quite clearly enough x x

Lol, sorry but you're kidding yourself. Those pics are entirely blury, hazey and a bit blocky looking.
The lighting is horrible, theres glare on the models, and places with barely any light atall. The background is not flattering, a clean solid colour (usualy white or off white) will bring focus to the model rather than its surroundings. This is especially true with the hive tyrant standing before some great bright red/orange object that takes all the attention away from the model.
Theres little to no focus on anything int the shot atall. Should i even mention white balance?
If you genuinly cannot see the difference between that photo and the model in your hand, you may need glasses.
I have to believe that the photo is hiding a great deal of your work... which I can't comment on yet as i cant see it tbh. No one can judge wether or not to buy this item from that picture when the paint job is the commodity being sold.

edit; the camera may not be great either, but theres a handful of things wrong there that are your doing, not the camera
also, this level of pic wouldnt necessarily be so much a problem if you were not trying to sell a paint job, labeled as professional.

Professionalism doesnt actually relate to quality of paint work as much as it relates to being professional, in showing and describing the product, interacting with others about comments and concerns raised, being able to take criticisms without taking it personally...
A professional would probably have a bussiness card, a website, relaible payment method set up, a good portfolio of their work, maybe even be registered bussiness and pay taxes/enjoy tax breaks for supplies and tools (including the suitable camera you apparantly do not have)

I hate to rain on your parade but the honest truth is the work you posted is table top at best. Now there is nothing wrong with that, and people (especially local folks) will pay for it.

Instead of being insulted by folks, particularly people like Winterdyne, who happens to be one of the BEST commission painters in the business today. Be happy that he even decided to acknowledge your post. If you had taken a different approach with him he might have even offered suggestions to help you become a better painter, and a profitable commission painter at that.

I know its hard to read people rip apart your work, I get it. I take pride in mine as well, even if it isn't anywhere close to what some people can do.

If you want an honest opinion of your work and if it's ready for the big time, put your pictures up on Coolminiornot.com. if your miniatures consistently average a 7 or higher you can legitimately say your ' a professional painter".

Anyway long rant. Bottom line, Good Luck and keep at it.


Oh and if Winterdyne is still reading these comments please look at my stuff (particularly the WarMachine minis and drop some knowledge my way PLEASE).

@darefsky: Some washes and re-highlights I think will help - nothing complex, just time consuming, not quite sure which pic I was supposed to be looking at - the big-ass collossal?

TyranidPainter wrote:
I wish I could afford a better camera but these photo's were taken off of a relatives Iphone so I doubt better picture quality is needed.

Yes, better picture quality is needed. You aren't going to convince anyone to buy from you when they can't really tell what your models look like. Take a look at high-rated pictures by other people and notice how they did their photography. You might not be able to get the best possible image quality of a high-end DSLR but you need to at least learn how to use your camera settings properly, set up a good light box, etc. And it's not really even that hard. Consider this picture for example:



Yeah it's taken with a low-end DSLR instead of an iphone, but pay attention to three things about the setup:

1) Focus is set properly so the whole model is in focus. Compare that to your Tyranid pictures where the closer bits are out of focus and too blurry to see what anything is. Use macro mode (the flower icon) on your camera so it knows that it's dealing with something up close where focal length is very sensitive, and make absolutely sure that you're focusing on the right thing.

2) I used a simple white surface and background to remove all the clutter. This does three important things: it reflects some light back onto the model to make it a bit more evenly lit, it gives a nice plain background color so you can focus on the model without distraction, and it removes all of the random stuff on the table so it looks a little more professional (if I was really trying I'd replace the tablecloth with a proper white sheet as well).

3) I put the camera on a tripod so I could use a fairly long exposure time (IOW, make it bright enough to see details) and remove all blur from shaky hands.

Add a bit of color correction in photoshop and the total time was maybe a minute of "work". So you're not exactly spending tons of time and money on this.

And my work is priced so low for a reason. I think it's crule for people to charge high prices for something they enjoy doing anyway.

No, it's just basic business sense. People have broken it down for you, charging the prices you're talking about barely covers your expenses. You're doing this as a charity service, not a business, and you're going to be making well below minimum wage. Now, that's fine if you just want to subsidize your painting hobby and help some people out, but don't fool yourself into thinking you're going to be making any money doing this.

The poorer classes (like myself) should also have access to finely painted models in my oppinion.

Then they should learn to paint. Nothing you've posted is beyond what the average person can do with a little practice, and having someone else paint your models for you is not a right.

You can see the detail on there photo's quite clearly enough x x

No, you really can't. Your pictures are a dark and blurry mess. And don't forget it doesn't matter what you think, what matters is what your potential customers think. So if you have people saying "I wouldn't even consider buying without better pictures" you need to learn how to take better pictures whether you like it or not.

Is it an iPhone 4S or 5? Cause I can show you that those camera can be incredibly good actually. But any less than iPhone 4 isn't going to be able to take very good photos.

Regardless of skill it important to make it worth your time.

I work in the webdesign industry and I see people offering sites for as low as £100, there is a reason why they are so cheap and I talk to businesses that have gone with these cheap sites and in the long run they have problems. This is where the difference between doing it for a bit of pocket money or being professional.

Think about your whole process
- Client consultation -
- Test build
- Client review and wanted changes
- Shipping to client

Other costs
Hosting , domain custom coding etc.

So for me as a professional I cannot afford to offer my services for £100 as I would be better to go and get a minimum wage job once all my time and expenses has been worked out.

If you want to do this professionally then you will need to setup as a professional , there are many ways to get funding in the uk for starting a business.

Your other option would is the long Journey but will build a customer base as you grow would be the following

Start a blog - use blogger it free
Post up you work
Start a blog thread on all the major forums
Have a facebook page and other social media
Write tutorials

The aim here is to establish yourself as a authority within the community online and from there customers will come.

For me I have looked at commission painters and very tempted to get my army done as I don't have the time to paint them but there are many factors that I consider when choosing and cost and skill is important .

I can't really give much criticism of the paint jobs, because the picture quality isn't great. If all you have is an iPhone, then you need to learn to make the most of it.

I knocked up a light box out of white card and Sellotape. The painting may not be your bag, but it gives an idea of what is possible on a non existent budget.

White card, a print out with a blue fade, and two desk lamps with daylight bulbs. Total outlay was £20 for the bulbs. Pics taken on an iPhone. They aren't amazing, but they let the viewer see as much detail as is possible with a camera phone.

winterdyne wrote:
@darefsky: Some washes and re-highlights I think will help - nothing complex, just time consuming, not quite sure which pic I was supposed to be looking at - the big-ass collossal?

Thanks! The colossal is a bear to work on (it broke the camels back on me finally getting an airbrush after painting it by hand).

TyranidPainter wrote:
And my work is priced so low for a reason. I think it's crule for people to charge high prices for something they enjoy doing anyway.

You're living with your parents, and don't have to pay for your rent, food or bills. Serious commission painters do.

You need to learn the ability to see things from a different perspective in life.

Another bit of advice I'd offer is losing the chip on your shoulder about "the poorer classes".. I grew up in arse-end-of-nowhere council estates with pretty much nothing and still went to university and found decent employment.
If you start labelling yourself as "lower class" you're doomed.

Anyway, good luck, I did some commission painting when I was 14-16 years old (£1 a mini for nicely-painted minis that took around 45 minutes each) but soon gave it up as soon as I could get a proper job which paid triple (around £6/hour).

Alright, I've read this thread from start to finish, and here's the input of some other random guy on the internet:

I do local commissions. I'm not great, but my friends are worse lol. I'll be honest, I charge them $5 for a mini, or if they want a higher end model (good as I can get kind of high end), we discuss it. My skill cannot compare to what commission dealers I find just here on Dakka alone, let alone anywhere else (ex. CMoN).

Here would be my suggestions:
1. Stick local for a bit. Work on your skills, compare yourself to what you find online. If you find something better, work to achieve that ability. YES, the point is that you'll always find somebody who's better. That's the point

2. Drop your prices. Like others have mentioned, cheaper. Break them down some more:
tabletop quality $2
better quality $5
basing add $1-2, depending.
I don't charge hourly, only per model work. If I've gotta do airbrush work, I'll up the price a few more dollars just because I've gotta clean my airbrush lol. If I have to purchase a color I don't already have (now becoming increasingly rare) I communicate that, and adjust the price accordingly. My consumers know what I'm doing, why, and how much.

Which, at this point, I'll bounce back to bullet #1: when your skills go up, THEN tweak your prices. TWEAK. Like, go from $2 up to $5 for tabletop, and $5 up to $10 for best quality. Economics 101: Supply and demand. If they demand, you supply. If they don't demand, you can't supply. Jump the prices too far and suddenly the demand drops, ya know? Gotta make it worth it.

3. Light box. You want to know my set up? 2 pieces of cardboard, making a "poster box" of sorts, lined with printer paper, and a desk lamp with a daylight bulb behind a piece of wax paper. All photos taken with my phone. Unless the images are super old, b/c I'll admit openly they SUCK.

This step also includes a portfolio. As suggested, blog it up! Free blog spaces everywhere and then some. While working on your skills, participating on the forums online, put your link in your signature. Somebody clicks it, sees your work, word gets out, they order from you, they like you, they pass the word, etc...

4. Already mentioned 2 million times: Thicker skin or get out. No sugar coat, no pulling the punch, but I'm not trying to punch any harder. If I was truly interested in your business, and clicked into this forum seeking a business deal and found the mini explosions from you that I read a few minutes prior to writing this, I'd avoid you. First and foremost for anything professional oriented, besides the work, is the attitude. A single bad review for your mannerisms gets out, and you'll sink like an anchor. Start from the beginning of this post and read it from the beginning, from my point of view. You'll see.

Please take these suggestions to heart. I actively avoid confrontation online, as it's a headache easily avoided, so long as everybody involved keeps their cool. It's interesting how a forum suddenly changes the words in your head to sound more menacing and sarcastic.

Post your WIP pictures, get critiqued, work on your stuff, get your business rolling. It's difficult, and an uphill battle. I only consistently work on 2-3 peoples models (locally). It's rough, and it's pocket change I put back into the hobby.

I wish you the best of luck. Don't let this ruin you, get back on the horse and start over. You'll get it.

 fenrir1997 wrote:

2. Drop your prices. Like others have mentioned, cheaper. Break them down some more:
tabletop quality $2
better quality $5
basing add $1-2, depending.
I don't charge hourly, only per model work. If I've gotta do airbrush work, I'll up the price a few more dollars just because I've gotta clean my airbrush lol. If I have to purchase a color I don't already have (now becoming increasingly rare) I communicate that, and adjust the price accordingly. My consumers know what I'm doing, why, and how much.

Which, at this point, I'll bounce back to bullet #1: when your skills go up, THEN tweak your prices. TWEAK. Like, go from $2 up to $5 for tabletop, and $5 up to $10 for best quality. Economics 101: Supply and demand. If they demand, you supply. If they don't demand, you can't supply. Jump the prices too far and suddenly the demand drops, ya know? Gotta make it worth it.

Good point, Fenrir! I started out charging $5 for a 25mm based tabletop quality model (fully cleaned, basecoated in 3-6 colors, washes, 1-2 layers of highlights, light battle damage) and I'm now charging $12 for that same work. Why? Well, demand for my work has skyrocketed. I've also improved as a painter since I first started. Now I can charge $24-$30 for my highest quality work on a rank-and-file 25mm model. But you cannot charge that price until you're really established and respected and have a solid, loyal customer base. For example, I have customers that I've been doing work pretty much nonstop for the last 3 years, no matter what I charge.

Commission painting is hard - you have to be smart, you have to be cunning, and above all, you have to be willing to work you butt off for the first couple years to get yourself established.

~Tim?

 insaniak wrote:

Not the hostility... for the most part, poeple weren't being hostile at all, just offering criticism. But when someone's hobby exposure has mostly been a local community where their work is better than those around them, it can come as a rude shock to step out into the world and discover that they're suddenly just a very small fish in a very big pond. I went through a similar thing myself, many, many years ago, thinking my work was all that, and then moved to a larger city where all of a sudden I was just average...

The trick is just to take that as a push to improve, rather than be put off by it.

We do have some exceptional painters in the brisbane area, I won't lie.

I looked at your models, Tyranid and I rated them at the same level as mine. My models aren't exceptional by anyone's internet standard, but they're good enough that I've done a little (a little) bit of comission work for local people. However, if you produce models to a standard that people are happy with, and you get good pay out of it, what do you care what a bunch of internet people say?

I agree 100% with Ian though. You shouldn't take the setback you've felt here as an insult, but use it as a reason to improve.

 scarletsquig wrote:

TyranidPainter wrote:
And my work is priced so low for a reason. I think it's crule for people to charge high prices for something they enjoy doing anyway.

You're living with your parents, and don't have to pay for your rent, food or bills. Serious commission painters do.

Now here's my advice to you. Don't just assume stuff. What on earth gave you the impression I was living with my parents!? Kinda wish I was as I was alot richer back then but I don't and yes I do have bills to pay so stop assuming things x x

The first time I posted my work on Dakka was very rough. It can be difficult to have something that you put so much time and heart into ripped apart. After being on Dakka for a few years and having posted more of my work I can tell you that my own skills have grown greatly. I owe it all to the same kind of ruthless criticism you have received here. The advice you are offered here is honest and intended to help you grow as a painter. Be humble and take the time to consider the advice offered.

To be fair, I think it was your statement that led to the assumption. Many people love their job, including me, but when you have bills to pay, time becomes precious. I don't do commission work because I'm not good enough, but I love painting. If someone asked me to paint a model for them, they'd have to be willing to pony up £25 an hour, because that is what my time is worth elsewhere. And I'm slooooow.

Why would I do it for free, or for pennies, when I could be painting my own models, or earning decent money at one of my jobs?

I agree about the 'poorer classes' thing too. The huge majority out there (again, including me), started out without much of anything. Life is what you make it though. I left school with sod all qualifications, but I'm a grafter. Just bought a convertible beamer to park next to my jag.

It's admirable that you want to start a business to make some dough. In fact, its exactly what the economy needs more of, but you need to be open to what the peeps in this thread are saying - business is dog eat dog, and folks are only trying to help.

TyranidPainter wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sub-zero wrote:
I don't mean to sound harsh here, but calling these minis "professionally painted" is pretty far from the truth. The barrels aren't drilled out, I can see mold lines, the bases are completely blank, and the it looks like the paint has been applied too thick. I appreciate the effort to start a money making venture, but if these are the results of your work, your customers are going to want their money back, just sayin.....

Rite well A: barrels arn't supposed to be drilled out and B: I'm very impressed you can see mold lines on these pic's 'cos I can't even see them on the models. So either you've got super human eyesite or I'm blind and if I'm blind that makes these models even more spectacular *rolls eyes*.

There's a line right on the end of the gun you didn't drill out. And barrels are supposed to be drilled out, all decent painters/modellers do this. I think you're charging too little for your time, there's very little margin really. The other issue is simple quality, they aren't better than those in White Dwarf, the marine is barely tabeltop, and until you improve you won't be able to charge more, which is your problem. You should take on board advice from people like Winterdyne, harsh as it is to take, because they know their trade. You ask why people charge a 'stupid amount' for a professionally painted miniature, that's because it can be a full time job, and it is very time consuming. It's also very competitive.

Wait, why is it cruel to charge the right amount for a job you love? I love my job... so I should charge less? Loving your job does not mean the work gets easier, or the costs gets lower.

My advice? Stop replying to this thread. It's not bad, but you've handled yourself in a very unprofessional manner with regards to taking criticism (meaning you can't take it). Saying "I appreciate the advice but honestly, I know what I'm doing" sounds condescending at best, and from the looks of it it doesn't really look like you have the skills to say "you know what you're doing." It's not better than "most professional standard" stuff, nor 'Eavy Metal standards (and I'm not even a fan of 'Eavy Metal!). In a way you're indirectly insulting us who do miniature painting commissions. It's almost akin to saying to winterdyne (and me to some extent, but I am less of a commission painter than he is) "I paint better than most of your lot". Now can you see why it would be insulting, especially posting it on a forum where a lot of members are commission painters? Particularly if you show us bad-lit photos which are tabletop standard.

It may also not be your intention, but you come off as both arrogant, slightly hostile and insecure with the way you conduct yourself on this thread. So you can also try working on that. Look at how other professionals on any field handle business and criticism, and try conducting yourself in the same manner when handling business transactions and criticism.

With regards to quality... let's just say practice makes perfect. It took me 2 years of painting 5-8 hours a day to reach the level I am now, and I still need to learn a lot. If I shied away from criticism (even small things like "drill your barrels!" I used to not drill my barrels or clean mold lines), I wouldn't be where I am now.

I don't drill many gun barrels, but those fat bolter barrels need it bad.

TyranidPainter wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:

TyranidPainter wrote:
And my work is priced so low for a reason. I think it's crule for people to charge high prices for something they enjoy doing anyway.

You're living with your parents, and don't have to pay for your rent, food or bills. Serious commission painters do.

Now here's my advice to you. Don't just assume stuff. What on earth gave you the impression I was living with my parents!? Kinda wish I was as I was alot richer back then but I don't and yes I do have bills to pay so stop assuming things x x

Well then, you really need to shape up your attitude. Judging by the caliber of your posts, we had all assumed you were a teen/preteen still living at home...Maturity is key when it comes to running a business, because you have to be able to handle difficult customers calmly. And trust me, you'll eventually have to deal with customers that make you wanna tear your hair out.

~Tim?

After reading the first page, I thought the OP was just trolling...but then I read the whole thing.

If the OP is still reading this thread, please consider a few things:
Posting your work on an online forum will get you many opinions. Some of them may be harsh or rude; but that's what happens on the internet.
You haven't taken anything to heart. It's advice to make you better at what you want to do. If we were all potential customers, we're basically telling you what we would expect from you as an artist, which you should take seriously if you're a "professional."
Nobody is out to make you feel bad (well, at least not that I could see.) If someone says that your mold lines need cleaning and your paint is too thick, it's not because they're trying to insult you. Those things do need to be fixed, or the model suffers.
Taking pictures of what you do is the only way to get them out for people to see, so picture taking should be approached seriously. Take some simple steps to take better pictures.
Everything you say on the internet goes toward your reputation. That's all you have on the internet, the only thing we can see are your words and the pictures of your work. So far, your grammar and spelling have been poor, and your pictures have been low quality and poorly done. That reflects badly on you, and that will translate to people's perception of your work.
Please take this all as advice, and not as an attack. It's not meant to be rude or condescending. Take it, swallow your pride, and improve. Rinse and repeat.
Best of luck to you.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

TyranidPainter wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sub-zero wrote:
I don't mean to sound harsh here, but calling these minis "professionally painted" is pretty far from the truth. The barrels aren't drilled out, I can see mold lines, the bases are completely blank, and the it looks like the paint has been applied too thick. I appreciate the effort to start a money making venture, but if these are the results of your work, your customers are going to want their money back, just sayin.....

Rite well A: barrels arn't supposed to be drilled out and B: I'm very impressed you can see mold lines on these pic's 'cos I can't even see them on the models. So either you've got super human eyesite or I'm blind and if I'm blind that makes these models even more spectacular *rolls eyes*.

I think you're charging too little for your time, there's very little margin really. The other issue is simple quality, they aren't better than those in White Dwarf, the marine is barely tabeltop, and until you improve you won't be able to charge more, which is your problem.

I think this is the basic problem with trying to get in to commission painting.

You....
1) Need to be able to paint high enough quality to ask decent money for your services.

2) Need to be asking a reasonable amount of money for your time.

So you need to be able to paint a high standard faster than your average hobbyist, otherwise you end up with an atrocious wage when you consider the effective hourly rate.

As a teenager I considered getting in to commission painting. After looking at what was available from other painters I decided that to paint a quality that would come near them would take me so long that charging the same price as them earned me less than... well... anything. So while I might have enjoyed painting, I couldn't justify the terrible hourly wage.

Even if you look at a lot of higher level commission painters, most are earning pretty pathetic hourly wages. Personally I think it's only really worth commission painting if you can paint exceptionally fast at a high quality OR you can paint Golden Demon standard and ask tons of cash for each model.

You still don't make much even at the high end.

It also makes sense if you already have a full time job and take a commission now and again for some spending cash. It's not like you were actually working those hours.

I think a good way to gauge interest in your painting outside of your local area would be to do up several quality pieces and build yourself a gallery and see how well they fare on ebay or similar places. Its a good chance to paint something that really showcases your talents and range of ability and if the painting hits the right mark you can recoup the costs of the models whilst expanding your portfolio.

You will benefit from a cheap backdrop for photos and a basic photo editing programme to get the image right

This is really the closest to painting for profit I have come myself as I genuinely dont trust my ability to share a clients vision, I regularly sell 50% over retail on my auctions on ebay but wouldnt count mtself as "professional"

(Admittedly I sell models to afford yet more models, but still)

winterdyne wrote:You still don't make much even at the high end.

Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest you would, just to say if you want make it worth while in any monetary sense (other than the fulfillment received for seeing someone else receive painted miniatures ).

Rented Tritium wrote:It also makes sense if you already have a full time job and take a commission now and again for some spending cash. It's not like you were actually working those hours.

Yeah, if you really enjoy painting models for other people, and I'm sure some people do, commission painting on the side isn't a bad idea. Though I think some people over estimate how much they like painting other peoples' models given how low it pays. Would you rather be painting someone else's models for a pittance, or just painting your own models, or doing something else completely different with your spare time? I tutor students in my spare time (or used to, back when I had spare time ) firstly because I enjoyed it and secondly it gave me cash on the side, but I don't consider that the same as commission painting it was significantly more cash per hour than even a good commission painter and not a lot of hours either, so I actually had time to spend the cash it earned me.

Wow so many comments, so much advice. I'm realy touched (no I can't spell as many of you already know) that you'd try and help me so much. I'm quite embarrassed about my first few replies now :(. I'm not going to let this minor setback stop my ambitions but maybe I should stick with ebay untill my quality improves. Thank you all for your advice. I will continue to post on here and I'd be greatfull if some of you'd keep an eye on my progress. Obviously I could not ask anyone to dedicate any of their time to help me but it is painfuly clear my painting needs improving so....help....please x x

That sounds like an honest plea. Yes, as long as you're open minded to what people have to say, 90% of what people will tell you will be critique- to help influence you in a positive direction.

Best of luck, start getting those WIP photos rockin'

I would start a blog over in the P&M Blogs subforum so people can track your progress and offer insight. As long as you update it frequently, people will follow it.

Honestly, just paint more and practice. You got a lot to learn, so do I. And that's okay.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:It also makes sense if you already have a full time job and take a commission now and again for some spending cash. It's not like you were actually working those hours.

Yeah, if you really enjoy painting models for other people, and I'm sure some people do, commission painting on the side isn't a bad idea. Though I think some people over estimate how much they like painting other peoples' models given how low it pays. Would you rather be painting someone else's models for a pittance, or just painting your own models, or doing something else completely different with your spare time? I tutor students in my spare time (or used to, back when I had spare time ) firstly because I enjoyed it and secondly it gave me cash on the side, but I don't consider that the same as commission painting it was significantly more cash per hour than even a good commission painter and not a lot of hours either, so I actually had time to spend the cash it earned me.

What happens to me is about once a month one of my friends buys a totally sweet big ole HQ choice or MC or something and has no intention of painting it. Since I'm going to be playing against it, it had better look good. So I offer to paint it for 30 bucks and make a saturday job out of it.

I can't imagine doing more than this without getting MUCH better at painting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TyranidPainter wrote:
Wow so many comments, so much advice. I'm realy touched (no I can't spell as many of you already know) that you'd try and help me so much. I'm quite embarrassed about my first few replies now :(. I'm not going to let this minor setback stop my ambitions but maybe I should stick with ebay untill my quality improves. Thank you all for your advice. I will continue to post on here and I'd be greatfull if some of you'd keep an eye on my progress. Obviously I could not ask anyone to dedicate any of their time to help me but it is painfuly clear my painting needs improving so....help....please x x

Awesome!

Take good pictures of your work and post them in this forum and we will help improve your techniques.

TyranidPainter wrote:
Wow so many comments, so much advice. I'm realy touched (no I can't spell as many of you already know) that you'd try and help me so much. I'm quite embarrassed about my first few replies now :(. I'm not going to let this minor setback stop my ambitions but maybe I should stick with ebay untill my quality improves. Thank you all for your advice. I will continue to post on here and I'd be greatfull if some of you'd keep an eye on my progress. Obviously I could not ask anyone to dedicate any of their time to help me but it is painfuly clear my painting needs improving so....help....please x x

If you want to paint Tyranids, try reading/watching these tutorials:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trpHUu0liz8 (GirlPainting's video; pretty standard stuff, all brushwork)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNA3fSqgGKg&list=PL449300393224A594 (One of Les' earlier videos, there is lots of airbrushing in it but he also does all of the carapace and claws with a brush)
http://www.figurepainters.com/tips-tutorials/2011/8/15/painting-a-tyranid-flying-hive-tyrant-golden-demon-winner.html (The part about doing the feathering on the carapace is pretty good... well, the whole thing is good too)
http://www.necrotales.com/necroTutorials/tut_painting_tyranids_01.php (One of my favorites... it shows how to add patterns, similar to ones found in nature, to the carapace and even the skin. It gives them a really awesome and different look)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJha39IUztU & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-mjrracdCs (BuyPainted's video; mostly airbrush work but still fun to watch)

Rite well I’ve took everyone’s advice into consideration and after making a few alterations this is what I came up with:
-This is a warrior’s carapace in my own personal colour scheme using the feathering techniques Winterdyne told me about

-The following are a Hormagaunt and a Genestealer using all the techniques people advised. I think I may have overdone it on the highlighting :S




What do you guy’s think? Comments, advice and even criticism is highly valued. Thanks  x x

Photography is a big improvement. I can make out the fine details. The white in the top pic is a little too thick. I also have this problem. White needs to be watered down, and built up over many layers. It's a total pain in the ass. Also, you've missed a mold line on the lower left leg. The blue carapace is certainly striking, and I suspect will stand out well from across the table.
I much prefer the green scheme though; I don't think your highlights are too much, the paint looks much smoother than the white. There is a good bit more depth to the range of tones used.
They'll look even better if you base 'em though. Keep it up!

the white skin on the warrior is too 1-dimensional. I know many people that are afraid of using grey because it looks like the GW plastic.... don't be afraid of using grays.

A massive improvement.

 Eggs wrote:
Photography is a big improvement. I can make out the fine details. The white in the top pic is a little too thick. I also have this problem. White needs to be watered down, and built up over many layers. It's a total pain in the ass. Also, you've missed a mold line on the lower left leg. The blue carapace is certainly striking, and I suspect will stand out well from across the table.
I much prefer the green scheme though; I don't think your highlights are too much, the paint looks much smoother than the white. There is a good bit more depth to the range of tones used.
They'll look even better if you base 'em though. Keep it up!

Thanks, I used my fathers camera for these. Well I nicked it. I doubt he'd let me borrow it for this. He's a typical biker and doesn't take me seriously on this -.-. I'm fed up of trying to make him proud though. Anyway other than the primer I didn't use any white on the first pic. Do you mean the fortress grey on the carapase? Also as soon as I can afford base paints I will base it. Also I don't own a file yet so I can't get rid off the mold lines :(. Any ideas of how I can do it cheap? Thanks x x


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tomcat31 wrote:
A massive improvement.

Err, I didn't use any white. That's deneb stone :S. Perhaps I should've used the pics taken without the flash x x

Your paint is still a little thick, but you're definitely doing the right things with said paint.

Rite, now for the ultimate question. Going with the last few pics as references only and keeping my old priceing method....would any of you consider commissioning me? Obviously I'm not asking for your money (not yet anyway lol), I just wonderd if they are at that standard yet x x

Still no. Sorry. Although not because of your quality.
My reasons are
1. I'm a chaos player
2. I enjoy painting my own minis.
3. I can paint to a similar standard.

You are getting there though and your attitude has also improved massively.
As for removing mould lines. I use a scalpel blade and scrape them away gently. The blades are a couple of pounds for 10 from most art suppliers.

tomcat31 wrote:
Still no. Sorry. Although not because of your quality.
My reasons are
1. I'm a chaos player
2. I enjoy painting my own minis.
3. I can paint to a similar standard.

You are getting there though and your attitude has also improved massively.
As for removing mould lines. I use a scalpel blade and scrape them away gently. The blades are a couple of pounds for 10 from most art suppliers.

Ah thank you. I do appologise again for my former attitude. I am genuinly rather embarrassed about it. That's a side of me I thought I got rid off. Oh well, at least I'm back to being the old happy, wappy chappy now eh lol. Rite well I hope that third reason is only a temporary thing. I intend to continue improving the quality of my models untill I can make a career out of it........so no time soon then XD. I'll be sure to shop around for those scalpels, thanks. Oh and if you wouldn't mind I'd love to see your models. Could you post a link to them pwease :3 x x

Just click on my name then go to my gallery. I'm not sure how to post links. There's an example below. Although some of my older stuff is embarrassing now. Lol.

tomcat31 wrote:
Just click on my name then go to my gallery. I'm not sure how to post links. There's an example below. Although some of my older stuff is embarrassing now. Lol.

Oh my goodness! I hope you don't do commissions 'cos I can't compete to that :0. Mind you, I can't paint humanoids anyway. Bloody well done pal x x

Picking up a scalpel or hobby knife (if you want it to cost twice as much) is an essential buy. from scraping off mold lines to removing excess flash, it will save you time and detail.

Your carapace looks great, I would recommend getting into two brush blending for your transitions. Its a PITA to learn but looks amazing once you get the hang of it (and some day I will!).

Also if your looking at expanding into commission work where you will be painting armies at a single go I would seriously look at getting an airbrush.

 darefsky wrote:
Your carapace looks great, I would recommend getting into two brush blending for your transitions. Its a PITA to learn but looks amazing once you get the hang of it (and some day I will!).

Also if your looking at expanding into commission work where you will be painting armies at a single go I would seriously look at getting an airbrush.

Thanks, I'm considering getting an airbrush but that's quite expensive. Any idea where I can get a cheap yet efficiant one (excuse my spelling)?
Also what's two brush blending x x

TyranidPainter wrote:

 darefsky wrote:
Your carapace looks great, I would recommend getting into two brush blending for your transitions. Its a PITA to learn but looks amazing once you get the hang of it (and some day I will!).

Also if your looking at expanding into commission work where you will be painting armies at a single go I would seriously look at getting an airbrush.

Thanks, I'm considering getting an airbrush but that's quite expensive. Any idea where I can get a cheap yet efficiant one (excuse my spelling)?
Also what's two brush blending x x

Two brush blending is a technique used for extremely smooth transitions between two colors and for highlighting, when done right its creates seamless transitions between colors. For example the white to the blue on your carapace.

There are tons of tutorials and videos on the Youtube about it.

Handcannon explains it really well here.

http://handcannononline.com/blog/2011/04/18/tutorial-basics-%E2%80%93-smooth-it-over-two-brush-blending/

As to cheap + airbrushing...... yea that's not gonna happen, but you could always do small commissions and save up to buy a decent setup. Also think of it this way. If it cuts the time of painting a model from 4 hours to 2 hours you are making twice as much per model......

Lol. Not a chance I'd do commission work. I just don't have the time, I work 60+ hours a week , have 2 step kids and a wife.
Between all this and painting my own army, I also have about 250 orks left to paint for my stepson.
Oh and thanks for the props.

Well that was a fun read. Here's what you need to do most of all.

The bases. Oh dear lord the bases.

Here's a simple method;
- Water slightly some PVA glue. Spread over the base.
- Dip the model in modelling sand.
- When dry, heavily wash the sand with a brown wash.
- When dry, drybrush the sand using a standard mid-tone grey.

You'll end up with a simple sunbleached pebble /appearance that does very nicely for minimal time spent. You can embellish it easily with some pre-formed grass tufts that can be found easily on the web, or by dabbing a little more pva on, and applying static grass.

Please sort the bases. You really cannot expect to be regularly paid for unbased minis, and it's such an easy job to do simply. There are also many types of resin bases out there that are cheap, easy paintjobs, and look excellent.

After that, just bear in what people here have said, for goodness sake don't get snippy and defensive with people, or deny what they're telling you. No one has lied to you here, rather they've simply given you some difficult truths to deal with.

Feel free to look at my website for another example of a currently operating commission business. I specialise in tabletop standard work.

Glad i held out on posting until now.
Pics really are a huge improvement to start with.

Something as simple as getting a better source of lighting really does make a huge change to a model.

A few things.

1: Basing - Ravens above me has covered this one.
Its something that people are expected to do with commissions unless stated otherwise.

2: Drilling barrels - Again, this one is pretty common as it adds an instant level of detail to a model.

3: Painting isnt bad, but you need to thin it out a bit more, more so with the base colours as a thick base coat effects any paint you apply ontop of it.
Your better off doing 2-3 coats of thin paint instead of 1 thicker one.
White will generally need to be 4-5 thin coats if you want a clean white.

4: Cleaning models is essential again, as mould lines and bits of sprue really do ruin a good model.
Ive allways fell into this one as ive cleaned a model, then realised that the better lighting in the pic will show up a bit ive missed, meaning i clean it and re-paint that part.
Its a real bitch, but it happens.

5: blobs of paint - The 1st pic of that hormagaunt shows a blue blob on the right talon hand (claw, paw?) that matches the colour of the tongue.
You will need to make sure things like this are cleaned up.


To be honest, i'd hold back on commission work for a while.
Simply crack into the painting on a variety of models and post them here.
This will help to get advice and also to build a portfolio of your work to date.
Also, when picking models, look for ones you can showw off when painting.
Bland models dont look great.
Basic troops really dont show a good level, and it really is hard to make them stand out (more so in fantasy where models rank into big units)

Any chance you get to try out shading, edging, feathering, source lighting etc, go for it.
You really want to keep pushing yourself as much as you can.



For a good start, try this:



Just a basic eldar farseer.
Its plastic, so just needs mould lines trimmed and no worry about finecast issues.
Its only £12.
The base is decorated to start with, so its an instant hit for people.

This models gives you the chance to show off a bit, with a glow from the blade lighting up the cloak area.
The cloak can be blended or have freehand work done on it.
There is plenty of detail to really add depth to it.
There are also alot of solid lines to edge highlight.

Overall its a nice model you can use as a showpiece as there are enough elements to it that you can really make it stand out.

Oh, and best of luck aswell, its a long road, but its worth it in the end.

..[edit] nevermind

TyranidPainter wrote:
Rite, now for the ultimate question. Going with the last few pics as references only and keeping my old priceing method....would any of you consider commissioning me?

Sorry, but no. You're still not up to the level that I can do on even basic infantry, and few people are going to commission work that isn't significantly above what they can do themselves. You've figured out better photography methods but you still have to do a lot of work on basing, mold line removal, better shading (plates aren't bad, flesh is way too flat), etc. Your latest models aren't bad and I'd gladly play against them, I just wouldn't pay for them.

Also, don't be so eager to get paid. Instead of rushing to get into commissions as fast as possible and with the least effort possible you need to focus on improving your painting skills. Get to the point where you can paint to a 7/8 out of 10 standard and do it quickly, and then think about asking for jobs. When you ask questions like this it seems like you're less concerned about quality than about going straight to payment.

TyranidPainter wrote:
Also I don't own a file yet so I can't get rid off the mold lines

Just use a knife. Hold the blade perpendicular to the surface and scrape it along the mold line. You're not cutting anything, just using the blade as a stiff edge to wear away the softer plastic.

Perhaps I should've used the pics taken without the flash x x

Never use the standard built-in flash to take pictures of models. It gives you really harsh glare and ruins colors, always use natural light or a light box. Use a longer exposure time and a tripod if you have to, it's much better to use dim light and a 30 second exposure time than to wash everything out with the flash.

(Really you should rarely use the flash for anything.)

You can use the standard flash, no problem. Just keep layering tissue paper onto it until you ge the volume of light you want. It's what I've done. Fancy flash that you attach to camera.... Bounce the light off the ceiling

Tyranid Painter,

I want to give you some advice that i think you will help you out a TON. I didnt see anyone else mention this, but - i really sincerely want you to try this. This is in essence a K.I.S.S. method

I want you to pick out three basic miniatures that have a predominant base color (predominant = thats the main color, that you see most of. Chaos marine = black. eldar = blue. whatever). Then go to hobby lobby or a hobby store and go to spray paints and pick out those three colors in spray paint, or as close to the color as you can. If its a common color, its a good investment.

1) Now spray paint those colors onto your models. Your goal here to is to put on as light and thin of a coat as possible to preserve the mico-detail, while still applying a solid layer of color.

2) Now paint on your secondary and additional colors. These are the "second" most predominant colors (secondary colors - white for ultramarine. brass for chaos marine. Whatever is the second most obviously occuring color.
The exact same bolded principle that is in step 1 applies here as well. Your goal here to is to put on as light and thin of a coat as possible to preserve the mico-detail, while still applying a solid layer of color.

3) Paint in accessory colors and small details. Be prepared to spend 50% of your paint time in this step. This is all the nitty gritty details. This can take a lot of time

4) Now here is where your magic happens, and where you earn your money, and will take your miniatures from where they are - to the next level!. You need to learn WASHES. Some call it magic wash. Some use Future Floor Polish. Some use inks. And believe it or not i use MINWAX floor wood stain and it is freaking awesome. I dip models in it, and blot the excess with q tip. Now the drawback with minwax is it takes a few days to dry, but in meantime i do other steps. . . We could write 100 pages about the washes that people use. Research and read about these- and above all EXPERIMENT. Experimentation is king.

5) Highlighting. To hightlight a color, take the color of item your painting, and just add a little white, and paint the most raised areas or edges of the item with that color. This step takes a miniature from blah, to great and is where you will make your money.

6) Basing. Every miniature you ever paint should have a nice base! Coat the stop with elmers glue, sprinkle fine sand on it. paint it dark brown. drybrush light brown. static grass. paint edges a nice green, etc....


Above all, my best advice is - just accept that miniatures painting takes years and years of work to become proficient in. But its an enjoyable journey - and a great outlet for you to grow and develop as an artist, and a person. Dont take peoples criticism too hard, dont let it hurt you, let it start a fire within you to better yourself and advance your skills. Keep on paintin' ![i]

Well I've just sold that Wolflord on ebay for £4 :(. Ah well, I wasn't using it anymore so it's still a bonus x x

With the feathering; thinner paint. You want the stroke to be very translucent at the start, and strong at the end (edge).

You need a lot of practice before you start doing commissions, especially at 10 GBP per model, which is very high for tabletop quality. I used to do better work for a third the price, and people would still try to talk me down to something cheaper. When showing off models, in addition to photographing them well, make an effort to make them look as good as possible. Trim mold lines, drill barrels, properly base them, and get some real solid paintwork in there with shading, layers, highlighting, and whatever other tricks you can pull off. Looking at the Wolf Lord on the first page, there's no shading or highlighting to speak of on him. It's just block colors, fairly thickly applied, with some drybrushing on the hair. If I saw the models you've posted across the table from me, I would happily play against them though.

I'm planning on selling a fully painted to the standard of the hormagaunt at the top of this page, magnatized carnifex. Creating it will cost me approx £36. What are the chances of me making a profit? I know people have been saying I need practice before doing commissions but to practice I need the models and the paints and to get the models and the paints I need money :(. If only could keep a job........or get one in the first place. I blame Cammeron x x

TyranidPainter wrote:
I'm planning on selling a fully painted to the standard of the hormagaunt at the top of this page, magnatized carnifex. Creating it will cost me approx £36. What are the chances of me making a profit? I know people have been saying I need practice before doing commissions but to practice I need the models and the paints and to get the models and the paints I need money :(. If only could keep a job........or get one in the first place. I blame Cammeron x x

The issue you are going to find with single models is that people are generally loath to purchase them if they do not match the rest of their army.

As far are affording models to paint for practice you have a few routes that are much cheaper. You can purchase Mantic or other less expensive than GW models. Or you can offer to paint models for locals for free or for other models. Its a great way to get your name out there.

Right now, your chance is approaching zero.

For single-mini jobs, to make profit you have to have a high level job in recognisable scheme (more chance of fitting in with buyers' armies). To make good profit on single minis, the work has to approach competition grade.

I'd agree you may find it hard to make back your money on selling thesingle minis. That said if you do have a bestbet it is inreplicating existing GW paint schemes from the codex's that new players may have taken up for their army and would be looking for more models in.

As an example:

Ultramarines
Dark Angels
Eldar Craftworld
Well painted Aspect Warriors.

If it is close enough to the default GW scheme you could find the right buyer.

Well my wolf lord just cost me £3 to send so I've lost a terminator and gained a quid for it :(. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come but it's not going to put me off. I'm goin to do the carnifex and possibly paint it in hive fleet leviathans scheme. For approx £45 I think it's very likely I'll at least make my money back x x

Always remember to charge adequate postage for whatever you're selling. Royal Mail second class runs at about 2.60 I believe so with a decent box/packing I usually charge about 3.60 for a single miniature to be posted on ebay. Reason being its in both my and the buyers best interest to ensure the model gets there in the best possible quality. The bigger.more expensive the item to more postage you need to charge especially if you wants to get insurance on it.

As an example my Wraithknight charged £10 postage because it took alot of wrapping and was insured for upto £500 in posting. (Cost about 55 from dark sphere, sold 110ish). Selling at a loss to start with might help get your name out there more but dont take that loss from postage (unless you make alot from the model). You can also look at other auctions before you pick what you're painting to see if there is alot of bids/demand on similar products to gauge how much you might make.

Buy some second hand minis for cheap, and then turn them into something awesome. Great way to gain experience.

 RavensNestPainting wrote:
Buy some second hand minis for cheap, and then turn them into something awesome. Great way to gain experience.

Sound advice. I may do that. Cheers x x

Well I uploaded that hormagaunt onto cool mini or not and scored just 4.6. I did think it was greater than that but I gues with the mold lines, running paint and it being unbased I shouldn't have expected any more. I like to think that if it were being judged on it's painting alone it'd have scored higher x x

TyranidPainter wrote:
Well I uploaded that hormagaunt onto cool mini or not and scored just 4.6. I did think it was greater than that but I gues with the mold lines, running paint and it being unbased I shouldn't have expected any more. I like to think that if it were being judged on it's painting alone it'd have scored higher x x

Hate to sound harsh, but that sounds pretty accurate. When you go on CMoN, you're competing with the BEST miniature painting artists out there. These guys and gals spend weeks or even months working on a single figure. A basic tabletop model with no basing and unfinished areas isn't gonna get that great of a rating. I've never been able to get up the balls to put my stuff on there.

~Tim?

CMoN can be pretty brutal, but it can be good motivation too. I think the highest I've scored yet is a 6.2, but I'm determined that I'll get a seven. Planning on spending some serious time on a couple of infinity models to try and reach a seven, and that includes building custom bases out of plasticard, making tiny spent ammo shells and the like, getting to grips with OSL, etc.

The thing about CMon, is you are being judged on everything - painting, basing, photography, lighting etc etc. You need to get the whole shebang right.

Edit - 6.4. Woohooo!

Aye I guess. I'm not upset. Just dissappointed. It's seems like a good way to gauge my progress tho so I'm gunna keep using it x x

To be honest, I wouldn't buy from you ... however, that is because I'm a pretty fast painter and can crank out tabletop quality pretty quickly. By table top, I mean:



I also farm out work to my 10-year old son, who is turning out solid quality work.



The advice:

You specialize in Tyranids, which is a good thing. Think about what Tyranid players really need. Any one who plays Tervigons, needs a shed load of basic gaunts, If you can find a way to a) buy gaunts on e-bay cheaply and b) turn out large quantities of them in the basic hive fleet colors ... you have a market. Other items that can do well if the quality is there: Swarmlord, Doom of Malentai, etc ... IC's where it might not be as important to have the same color scheme. Watch the tournament trends and look at what units always show up in Tyranid lists. Focus your efforts on those units.,

This is easily, hands down, the most entertaining thread I've ever read on dakka.

More in line with Ifurita's advice:
the old 3rd edition metal hive tryrants that look like adult warriors can make awesome tyranid primes. I've seen some go for less than $10, and with the core of the model being metal... it's easy work to strip the model and get some new life into it.

 Ifurita wrote:
The advice:

You specialize in Tyranids, which is a good thing. Think about what Tyranid players really need. Any one who plays Tervigons, needs a shed load of basic gaunts, If you can find a way to a) buy gaunts on e-bay cheaply and b) turn out large quantities of them in the basic hive fleet colors ... you have a market. Other items that can do well if the quality is there: Swarmlord, Doom of Malentai, etc ... IC's where it might not be as important to have the same color scheme. Watch the tournament trends and look at what units always show up in Tyranid lists. Focus your efforts on those units.,

Why thank you, that is very helpful. And bloody well done on your models. They are awsome x x


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 poda_t wrote:
More in line with Ifurita's advice:
the old 3rd edition metal hive tryrants that look like adult warriors can make awesome tyranid primes. I've seen some go for less than $10, and with the core of the model being metal... it's easy work to strip the model and get some new life into it.

Thanks, I'll look for them on ebay x x


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thokt wrote:
This is easily, hands down, the most entertaining thread I've ever read on dakka.

Glad to have been of service x x

This thread has been a good read

I applaud your optimism and drive, but you just need to practice. I came back into the hobby after about 10-15 years away, and as a youngster I was a great painter, won my local hobby centre comps and entered into the '94 Golden Demon young bloods. I came back into it and thought 'I can fund this hobby through some commissions maybe' but soon realised that a) I had lost a lot of skill that I'm still trying to get back and b) the competition for people offering this service is harsh!

I've been using the myriad of painting blogs, advice on here and just practice practice practice. It'll come dude.

Is there a local club or something you can attend to get into the scene around you? I started painting minatures for people as a kid because I went to a local club and people saw my work. It's the easiest way to get out there in the short term, and would solve the fact you havent got the equipment to take pictures to the standard of others that paint for money.

Wow, I'm impressed. When I first read this wreck-train of a thread in the beginning I was assuming it would be locked because of so hostility from the OP. Nice to read a 180º turn from you mate, best of luck to your endeavors but I feel like I must add my 2 cents, as low and they are because I'm just an apprentice as well.

What I found most surprising is how you didn't know about the 2 brush blending. It's not to sound like an a$$ or painting snob like that, no, but I just feel there's a real necessity for you, who wants to do commissions (Hey, I'm somewhat in the same boat ), to at least have a general idea of the different painting techniques out there.

2 brush blending, wet-blending, Non Metallic Metal, Zenithal Highlighting, they are all ugly words that really push the quality of a miniature up. Granted, I don't think you'll ever paint an entire army to display standard using these techniques (unless your client has MASSIVE quantities of money) but you gotta study, learn, practice them. You gotta keep pushing yourself and learn new stuff to keep on improving.
Eck, the simple layering technique is already a massive improvement to any miniature, even if you just do 3-4 different layers.

Search around in youtube, blogs, there's massive quantities of information for these techniques and see how they turn a simple miniature to a work of art.

TyranidPainter wrote:
Well I uploaded that hormagaunt onto cool mini or not and scored just 4.6. I did think it was greater than that but I gues with the mold lines, running paint and it being unbased I shouldn't have expected any more. I like to think that if it were being judged on it's painting alone it'd have scored higher x x

Don't take it too harshly man, CMoN is the best of the best, they're a harsh and critical community that pushes people to do better or to get out of the way... One of the best painters I've seen on CMoN is Nakatan, who has a history of some... controversial pieces, but he's been uploading to CMoN since at least June of 2009 (4 years now)... This was his first piece:


That scored an 8.7

This is his piece from March of last year, which scored a 9.8:


Compare that to his Crystal Brush entry this year, which also scored a 9.8:


Now here is the kicker with that... Nakatan didn't win with that entry...

Stick around with CMoN if you wish to improve as a painter, they generally won't lead you the astray, but you have to be willing to hear criticism and take it very well. I'm terrible at that, so I paint to try and get my army looking better on the table, you're looking to make OTHER peoples' armies looking better on the table.

Here's a little tid bit to give a better grasp on how tough the commission road can be:

From Mini Freek:

"No Longer Accepting Commissions!
Due to my finances needing a bit of a lift, I'm going to be going back to work full-time, as my commissions pay me about 50% of minimum wage. It's a tough decision to make, but I'd like to attend some more conventions next year, and in order to do-so, I have to increase my income substantially."

Examples of his work:

If he was earning half minimum hourly wage for painting those model, he was either (a) really slow, or (b) targeting the wrong market. With the work he was doing he should have been getting $30-$50 a model, easy.

Anyways, the real money is in infantry. If you can churn out lots of uniformly painted, above tabletop miniatures quickly, you can make around $10-$15 an hour. It takes me ~8 hours to paint a unit of 10 Space Marines up to tabletop level, and I get paid $100 for that unit. That's $12.50 an hour. Seeing as I'm 18 and would normally be bagging groceries for $7.50 an hour, I think I'm gonna stick with doing commissions as a way of saving for college (or whatever I end up doing...)

~Tim?

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Anyways, the real money is in infantry. If you can churn out lots of uniformly painted, above tabletop miniatures quickly, you can make around $10-$15 an hour. It takes me ~8 hours to paint a unit of 10 Space Marines up to tabletop level, and I get paid $100 for that unit. That's $12.50 an hour. Seeing as I'm 18 and would normally be bagging groceries for $7.50 an hour, I think I'm gonna stick with doing commissions as a way of saving for college (or whatever I end up doing...)

~Tim?

That much! Well I'm doing this to top up what I get so 50% minimum wage would be fine. However I don't chage by the hour. If something takes me a long time to finish that's not the clients fault. Besides, I like to keep my pricing systems simple. However I'm goind to start with selling monstrous creatures on ebay untill I can afford a spray gun then I'll get started on infantry. That'll save time x x

I'd make sure you stick with ones that people use in this case.
Painting up things like mawlocs really wont do that well compared with a tervigon.
Also, since your charging per model then your really going to have to be strict on time as it will cost heavily if you stray even a bit.

 Jackal wrote:
I'd make sure you stick with ones that people use in this case.
Painting up things like mawlocs really wont do that well compared with a tervigon.
Also, since your charging per model then your really going to have to be strict on time as it will cost heavily if you stray even a bit.

What do you mean by strict on time? Do you mean quick x x

No, he means you need to charge appropriately for the time it takes you to do a proper job. This boils down to the axiom:
Slow is steady, steady is fast, fast is good.
Bit of a mind bender to get your head around at first, but it's actually a good mindset to be in.

winterdyne wrote:
No, he means you need to charge appropriately for the time it takes you to do a proper job. This boils down to the axiom:
Slow is steady, steady is fast, fast is good.
Bit of a mind bender to get your head around at first, but it's actually a good mindset to be in.

Ah I see. Well like I said I want to sell my items cheap to give poorer people access to quality mercandise. Besides, it should also increase the portential market x x


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Will this page never end? Having to scroll down this far on a touch screen phone is rather annoying :( x x

To sell cheap, you need to be fast. Extremely fast. And to achieve quality that people will buy (as opposed to rip the gak out of) means serious skills with rapid painting methods - dipping and or airbrush techniques, and above all big batch work.

You need to be extremely organised and methodical to achieve this; when dipping you work your block base colours a little lighter to counteract the toning the dip gives, and you pay attention to cleanup- mould lines and flash lines will screw the flow of the dip. Highlighting is often done with a fairly harsh drybrush before the dip, or a simple edge highlight afterward.

winterdyne wrote:
To sell cheap, you need to be fast. Extremely fast. And to achieve quality that people will buy (as opposed to rip the gak out of) means serious skills with rapid painting methods - dipping and or airbrush techniques, and above all big batch work.

You need to be extremely organised and methodical to achieve this; when dipping you work your block base colours a little lighter to counteract the toning the dip gives, and you pay attention to cleanup- mould lines and flash lines will screw the flow of the dip. Highlighting is often done with a fairly harsh drybrush before the dip, or a simple edge highlight afterward.

I hate to sound thick but....dip? X x

Dipping is using a thick polyurethane toned varnish to shade the entire model by literally dunking it in. Excess is removed and gravity does the work of pooling the pigment in recesses. Because the varnish is quite viscous, you get a smooth gradient in the shade. Extremely efficient for large batches but takes some practice to get the right knack.

A while back there was an extremely nice Imperial Fists army (by a German dude IIRC) that was dipped for the main shading pass. Many of his modes were shown on the GW blog.

winterdyne wrote:
Dipping is using a thick polyurethane toned varnish to shade the entire model by literally dunking it in. Excess is removed and gravity does the work of pooling the pigment in recesses. Because the varnish is quite viscous, you get a smooth gradient in the shade. Extremely efficient for large batches but takes some practice to get the right knack.

A while back there was an extremely nice Imperial Fists army (by a German dude IIRC) that was dipped for the main shading pass. Many of his modes were shown on the GW blog.

Ah I see. Sounds like it requires alot of shade paint. Where on earth does one buy it in that quantity x x

Dude. Google. Minimum effort.

I swear this thread is a gold mine for information. A big "thank you!!!" to all the professionals!

TyranidPainter wrote:

winterdyne wrote:
Dipping is using a thick polyurethane toned varnish to shade the entire model by literally dunking it in. Excess is removed and gravity does the work of pooling the pigment in recesses. Because the varnish is quite viscous, you get a smooth gradient in the shade. Extremely efficient for large batches but takes some practice to get the right knack.

A while back there was an extremely nice Imperial Fists army (by a German dude IIRC) that was dipped for the main shading pass. Many of his modes were shown on the GW blog.

Ah I see. Sounds like it requires alot of shade paint. Where on earth does one buy it in that quantity x x

Army painter has these tins of stinky stuff, about the size of half of a soda can. They have three colors, none of which I remember right now. As a matter of fact, i believe any paint line worth it's salt will have a quick-finish/dip.
1.) the stuff reeks
2.) separate the model from its base, and once it's dipped, DON'T YOU BLOODY WELL TOUCH IT!!!!!!1!!1!!!01!!! This means to get the professional effect, you will have to put your models onto corks, with pins through their feet. It may take a day to dry, maybe two to completely seal, for some reason mine weren't quite finished drying till the second day.
3.) Dipping will almost always give you a gloss finish (there's a good chance its in the ingredients). IF you don't want the gloss, just hit it with a matte varnish when dry.

Army painters colors are:
-Soft Tone (brown only pigments)
-Strong Tone (Darker, thinking Devlan Mud here)
-Dark Tone (black pigments only, thinking Badab Black)

The most commonly used would be Strong Tone, unless you want a gentle shading (or, in contrast, an extreme shading). Strong tone is the happy medium!

Dipping is another excellent tool to add to your repertoire of skills. And it adds an almost indestructible coat of protection. Just make it a part of your arsenal, not a crutch, as your painting ability would suffer if you rely on it too much.

Again, good luck. Keep crackin'

Right, the other important thing to note is that dips are usually best for less than minimum effort models. You take your few colors, paint them on flat, and after dipping, they come out with depth to them. This is an effective method for taking a squad of 30 gaunts, and knocking them off your work table inside of 5 hours.

Googled "dipping warhammer models" and this was the second result:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?27857-Dipping-figures-The-ultimate-guide

I'll echo the other comments in this thread, at the price you're charging you aren't making any money, and at the quality you're putting out, I don't think you can expect to make any money either.

Not insults, just an opinion. When I first got into "commissioning" or painting for a profit, I practiced by buying really, really bad 2nd hand models, stripping, fixing, and putting a decent paint job on them, then reselling. I probably still only netted retail or below, but it gave me the opportunity to practice, and turn a profit based on how cheap I got the figures originally.

 poda_t wrote:
Army painter has these tins of stinky stuff, about the size of half of a soda can. They have three colors, none of which I remember right now. As a matter of fact, i believe any paint line worth it's salt will have a quick-finish/dip.
1.) the stuff reeks
2.) separate the model from its base, and once it's dipped, DON'T YOU BLOODY WELL TOUCH IT!!!!!!1!!1!!!01!!! This means to get the professional effect, you will have to put your models onto corks, with pins through their feet. It may take a day to dry, maybe two to completely seal, for some reason mine weren't quite finished drying till the second day.
3.) Dipping will almost always give you a gloss finish (there's a good chance its in the ingredients). IF you don't want the gloss, just hit it with a matte varnish when dry.

 poda_t wrote:
Right, the other important thing to note is that dips are usually best for less than minimum effort models. You take your few colors, paint them on flat, and after dipping, they come out with depth to them. This is an effective method for taking a squad of 30 gaunts, and knocking them off your work table inside of 5 hours.

Target wrote:
Googled "dipping warhammer models" and this was the second result:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?27857-Dipping-figures-The-ultimate-guide

I'll echo the other comments in this thread, at the price you're charging you aren't making any money, and at the quality you're putting out, I don't think you can expect to make any money either.

Not insults, just an opinion. When I first got into "commissioning" or painting for a profit, I practiced by buying really, really bad 2nd hand models, stripping, fixing, and putting a decent paint job on them, then reselling. I probably still only netted retail or below, but it gave me the opportunity to practice, and turn a profit based on how cheap I got the figures originally.

Thank you all so much. I appreciate all your advice and shall strongly consider experimenting with dips. Thankies =^_^= x x



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 fenrir1997 wrote:
Army painters colors are:
-Soft Tone (brown only pigments)
-Strong Tone (Darker, thinking Devlan Mud here)
-Dark Tone (black pigments only, thinking Badab Black)

The most commonly used would be Strong Tone, unless you want a gentle shading (or, in contrast, an extreme shading). Strong tone is the happy medium!

Dipping is another excellent tool to add to your repertoire of skills. And it adds an almost indestructible coat of protection. Just make it a part of your arsenal, not a crutch, as your painting ability would suffer if you rely on it too much.

Again, good luck. Keep crackin'

Thank you. So when do I apply the dip? Is it after fully painting the model (Prime, Base, Wash, Layer etc) or is it instead of the wash x x

TyranidPainter wrote:
Ah I see. Well like I said I want to sell my items cheap to give poorer people access to quality mercandise. Besides, it should also increase the portential market x x

You need to decide whether you're running a business or a charity. Insisting on low prices so poorer people can buy them is just absurd, someone who is really poor can't afford commission painting at all (especially when that commission painting isn't any better than what they could do themselves). So all you're really doing is making sure that your profit will be pretty much nonexistent. If you really want to help poorer people get into the hobby you'd be better off donating some time and money to buy basic starter sets and teach kids how to play.

Ooh peregrine. You just gave me an idea. Cheers dude. I was thinking of starting a gaming group anyway.

 Peregrine wrote:

You need to decide whether you're running a business or a charity. Insisting on low prices so poorer people can buy them is just absurd, someone who is really poor can't afford commission painting at all (especially when that commission painting isn't any better than what they could do themselves). So all you're really doing is making sure that your profit will be pretty much nonexistent. If you really want to help poorer people get into the hobby you'd be better off donating some time and money to buy basic starter sets and teach kids how to play.

........good point. Ok, you want the honest truth? I wouldn't feel comfortable charging a great amount. I'd feel like I was ripping my clients off. Besides, from what people have been saying my quality isn't yet good enough for me to charge the average going rate. I wanna charge what my skill is worth x x

TyranidPainter wrote:

Thank you. So when do I apply the dip? Is it after fully painting the model (Prime, Base, Wash, Layer etc) or is it instead of the wash x x

no washes. Dip replaces wash. Painting is also minimal. I've seen people apply paint directly without priming, and then dip them. Because the dip also contains the gloss varnish, you shouldn't experence issues with paint flaking. The only other drawback of not priming is not having anything for the paint to bite into when your are applying it, though.... I fail to see the issue here with expendables on the table top being done like this. Additionaly, be prepared to receive flak from puritans who have an inherent need to sneer when somoene mentions washes, and outright condescend at the mention of dipping models. I don't know what's wrong with these people.. dombthumbs, a former user on dakka, went and mocked these puritans by (i believe) making his own brush using his own hair clippings, and using food products for painting. (Actually, when you brew a strong coffee, and then boil most of the water off, you can get a darn nice dark ink for painting/calligraphy on paper. Not sure about the effects on models....)

despite op not being a professional painter, the title of the thread is still apt. There's oodles of handy stuff in here.

 poda_t wrote:

TyranidPainter wrote:

Thank you. So when do I apply the dip? Is it after fully painting the model (Prime, Base, Wash, Layer etc) or is it instead of the wash x x

no washes. Dip replaces wash. Painting is also minimal. I've seen people apply paint directly without priming, and then dip them. Because the dip also contains the gloss varnish, you shouldn't experence issues with paint flaking. The only other drawback of not priming is not having anything for the paint to bite into when your are applying it, though.... I fail to see the issue here with expendables on the table top being done like this. Additionaly, be prepared to receive flak from puritans who have an inherent need to sneer when somoene mentions washes, and outright condescend at the mention of dipping models. I don't know what's wrong with these people.. dombthumbs, a former user on dakka, went and mocked these puritans by (i believe) making his own brush using his own hair clippings, and using food products for painting. (Actually, when you brew a strong coffee, and then boil most of the water off, you can get a darn nice dark ink for painting/calligraphy on paper. Not sure about the effects on models....)

despite op not being a professional painter, the title of the thread is still apt. There's oodles of handy stuff in here.

Err, I am the OP lol. But yeh I guess it is. Which is good 'cos I don't know how to change it :S. And thanks, I've seen a few video's on it and I think I minght use it to turn out Massive quantites of gaunts and sell them on ebay. It should be a good way of getting the funds to start bigger projects.

That's literally the purpose of dip. It's for armies that contain many miniatures which aren't going to be individually picked up and examined, such as the gaunts for a tyranid army, or ork boys, or guardsmen. A solid neat basecoat followed by a 'strong tone' army painter dip provides a very solid tabletop standard that will satisfy many gamers.

After that, work with blending, wash, highlights and detail for miniatures such as your lictors, warriors, tyrants and so on.

This is the reason why many companies and painters offer multiple standards of painting. Mine included.

If you're going for commission paining, wouldn't it be better to just start off using oil washes rather than dips? I'm not an expert on the matter, so I'd like to hear what some higher level painters have to say, but I thought that's more what the pros used rather than dips, as you have more colour options, more consistency control and easier post-application cleanup.

I tend to use acrylic washes most of all as they are the quickest for me personally to use, but I want to get in to using oils as I've seen some really impressive results from people using them.

THIS POST HAS BEEN REMOVED BY THE CREATOR

I just started experimenting with dip in order to get an orc and gobbo army done quick. It is really fast. My workflow was prime-base coat-drybrush flesh and stone-dip-dullcote.

You can see the end result at the link below. I used army painter strong tone:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/532070.page#5711391

TyranidPainter wrote:
........good point. Ok, you want the honest truth? I wouldn't feel comfortable charging a great amount. I'd feel like I was ripping my clients off. Besides, from what people have been saying my quality isn't yet good enough for me to charge the average going rate. I wanna charge what my skill is worth x x

You need to stop thinking about what you deserve to be paid and start thinking about what you can get people to pay you. Your prices should be set to the highest level that people will still pay you to do. Rather than try to do the cheapest possible commissions work on your painting skills and get to the point where you can charge enough that your entire profit doesn't disappear into new painting supplies.

 Peregrine wrote:
You need to stop thinking about what you deserve to be paid and start thinking about what you can get people to pay you. Your prices should be set to the highest level that people will still pay you to do. Rather than try to do the cheapest possible commissions work on your painting skills and get to the point where you can charge enough that your entire profit doesn't disappear into new painting supplies.

I understand what you're saying and it is true that to begin with most of my money will be going back into the hobby however I now intend to make most of my money by using the dipping technique to produce many gaunts and selling them on.

one thing I've gotta say is that one the first model you showed, you put the scything talons on upside down

the shrouded lord wrote:
one thing I've gotta say is that one the first model you showed, you put the scything talons on upside down

No gak. They're converted boneswords.

If you are planning on just dipping and selling on then,

1. Why would people pay you enough to make a decent profit on these?

2. Have you realised that even this technique requires a bit of practice.


I'll be up front and say I dislike dipping, but it just seems like you really need to work on your painting and dipping will slow that down. I get that cash is obviously short and you are struggling for a job right now, but you might just need to accept that this isn't a solution. It might be in the future, but I think another source of income is the best way forward, sorry dude.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
If you are planning on just dipping and selling on then,

1. Why would people pay you enough to make a decent profit on these?

2. Have you realised that even this technique requires a bit of practice.


I'll be up front and say I dislike dipping, but it just seems like you really need to work on your painting and dipping will slow that down. I get that cash is obviously short and you are struggling for a job right now, but you might just need to accept that this isn't a solution. It might be in the future, but I think another source of income is the best way forward, sorry dude.

Eh, I think your personal prejudices against dipping are blinding you. I can guarantee that there are tons of 'Nid players who don't have the time/patience to paint up the masses of troops a 'Nid army requires. Plus, if done well, dipping looks really good.

I do agree with you that commission painting as a job isn't a good idea. I earn more than minimum wage doing commissions, but I'm only doing commissions because it's that or get a "real" job earning $7.50 an hour bagging groceries and stocking shelves at a store. Once I get the chance to get a better job, I'll probably start doing one commission a month, or none at all, depending on the job.

~Tim?

I just don't see why someone would pay a decent amount for someone to paint on a couple of base colours and dip them, when they can do it themselves. And by decent, I mean enough to cover costs and postage, and more than a couple of quid profit

Hi there, I read the whole topic and I am just so tempted to show you my pink land raider.


This is taken with a iphone 4S camera and also I personally think its a above average table top quality.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488198.page

This is the link, don't want to flood your thread with pink lol, and I really need to finnish that army lol, its been on hold for so long.

This is to show you that Iphone camera can take good pictures and what quality people expect on the internet.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Seeing as I'm 18

For some reason I thought you were much older than that. Now I unreasonably hate your painting skills even more

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Seeing as I'm 18

For some reason I thought you were much older than that. Now I unreasonably hate your painting skills even more

Hey, you aren't half bad. Actually, I really like your stuff! Those Marines are excellent.

~Tim?

OMG. That land raider burned my eyes. Lol, I never thought pink could look that good.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
If you are planning on just dipping and selling on then,

1. Why would people pay you enough to make a decent profit on these?

2. Have you realised that even this technique requires a bit of practice.


I'll be up front and say I dislike dipping, but it just seems like you really need to work on your painting and dipping will slow that down. I get that cash is obviously short and you are struggling for a job right now, but you might just need to accept that this isn't a solution. It might be in the future, but I think another source of income is the best way forward, sorry dude.

........Ouch man. Look, I understand there's a chance I'm going to be making a loss but until I do I'm not giving up. This is my chance to generate an income doing something I enjoy and I'm not going to let this opportunity pass me by. If after selling a few models I've made an excessive loss then maybe I'll take your advice but until then I'm going to continue painting Orks, Magnetizing Nids, Fitting green LED's into Necron gun's etc, whatever the people want to keep me going until David Cameron stops being a lazy coward and sorts this country's job market out so that I can get a full time job that I enjoy and that also pays the rent and even than I may continue with the commissions. It just depends on whether people are interested in my work or not.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Seeing as I'm 18

For some reason I thought you were much older than that. Now I unreasonably hate your painting skills even more

Hey, you aren't half bad. Actually, I really like your stuff! Those Marines are excellent.

~Tim?

Haha, thank you - I should really finish off that army at some point...

 Marthike wrote:
Hi there, I read the whole topic and I am just so tempted to show you my pink land raider.


This is taken with a iphone 4S camera and also I personally think its a above average table top quality.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488198.page

This is the link, don't want to flood your thread with pink lol, and I really need to finnish that army lol, its been on hold for so long.

This is to show you that Iphone camera can take good pictures and what quality people expect on the internet.

Wow man that's very good. Very pink but very good. Certainly above tabletop standard. And perhaps the Iphone's camera isn't that bad. Maybe I just don't know how to correctly use it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Division Of Joy wrote:
I just don't see why someone would pay a decent amount for someone to paint on a couple of base colours and dip them, when they can do it themselves. And by decent, I mean enough to cover costs and postage, and more than a couple of quid profit

A couple of quid profit is all I would expect from this method but to put it bluntly, most people haven't got the patience to paint swarm armies so they would be willing to pay people to do it for them even if it is just tabletop standard.

 TyranidPainter wrote:

The Division Of Joy wrote:
If you are planning on just dipping and selling on then,

1. Why would people pay you enough to make a decent profit on these?

2. Have you realised that even this technique requires a bit of practice.


I'll be up front and say I dislike dipping, but it just seems like you really need to work on your painting and dipping will slow that down. I get that cash is obviously short and you are struggling for a job right now, but you might just need to accept that this isn't a solution. It might be in the future, but I think another source of income is the best way forward, sorry dude.

........Ouch man. Look, I understand there's a chance I'm going to be making a loss but until I do I'm not giving up. This is my chance to generate an income doing something I enjoy and I'm not going to let this opportunity pass me by. If after selling a few models I've made an excessive loss then maybe I'll take your advice but until then I'm going to continue painting Orks, Magnetizing Nids, Fitting green LED's into Necron gun's etc, whatever the people want to keep me going until David Cameron stops being a lazy coward and sorts this country's job market out so that I can get a full time job that I enjoy and that also pays the rent and even than I may continue with the commissions. It just depends on whether people are interested in my work or not.

Blah, blah blah. Look, you are simply not up to the point where you stand a reasonable chance of making profit. I've said this before, but perhaps wasn't clear enough.

You. Need. To. Practice. Paint and photography.

You won't get paid for it, it will cost you in models, materials and time. To save cash, get metal models for practice. These can be cleanly stripped in cellulose thinner.

Right now, as your recent eBay experiment showed, you're simply not producing the required quality, attempting to sell or perform commissions right now will only serve to harm your finances and/or reputation. You could even end up in small claims court if a client is particularly unhappy.

A lot of the start-up 'commission' services you see are actually just doing things for their friends or on a very local basis. As soon as you're touting yourself as an actual professional, what people expect of you changes massively.

With ANY business, you need to know your stuff, before you launch the ship, so to speak. I wouldn't become a hairdresser; although I know how to use comb, scissors and clippers I am in no way skilled in coiffure. Even for mates. The chance of me ballsing it up is simply too high.

I echo, if you need cash now, another job is what you need. Get to the job centre - its their job to help you find something you can do, and if you're genuine about it, as opposed to the usual sullen dosser, they're much more helpful.

 Peregrine wrote:

TyranidPainter wrote:
Ah I see. Well like I said I want to sell my items cheap to give poorer people access to quality mercandise. Besides, it should also increase the portential market x x

You need to decide whether you're running a business or a charity. Insisting on low prices so poorer people can buy them is just absurd, someone who is really poor can't afford commission painting at all (especially when that commission painting isn't any better than what they could do themselves). So all you're really doing is making sure that your profit will be pretty much nonexistent. If you really want to help poorer people get into the hobby you'd be better off donating some time and money to buy basic starter sets and teach kids how to play.

Absolutely agree with this. If you're doing it as a charity, then provide the labor for free. If nothing else, it will give you tons of figures to practice painting on ... for free. Doing the work at a loss or for very little is just a bad idea.

Man, winterdyne's words have simultaneously encouraged and squashed my own delusions of "grandeur" with commission painting .

Fantastic info in this thread, but I realize I have lots of painting skills and a steady hand to get going before I could even paint for friends and attempt at charging money

I never charge or do commissions for friends.

I occasionally do freebies, but I find friendships and business are not good bedfellows. 'Mates' rates' are a surefire way to sour either your enthusiasm for the business or encourage a friend to demand more than you are willing to give. Working on stuff for free, there's no preconception on either side.

I know I sound harsh sometimes, but the truth of it is that commission painting is a hard, hard business. The money / margins are extremely small, the effort required is huge, and the general appreciation of skill or time involved by the general masses (even amoung gamers) is limited.

There's no magic involved, and the skills (more precisely 'tricks', once you have the fine motor control down) involved (unless you're being particularly 'arty') can be learned by anyone with patience and determination. By all means push yourself to it, but it's not a good idea to 'go pro' until you're ready both for harsh criticism and constructive feedback.

winterdyne wrote:
Blah, blah blah. Look, you are simply not up to the point where you stand a reasonable chance of making profit. I've said this before, but perhaps wasn't clear enough.

You. Need. To. Practice. Paint and photography.

You won't get paid for it, it will cost you in models, materials and time. To save cash, get metal models for practice. These can be cleanly stripped in cellulose thinner.

Right now, as your recent eBay experiment showed, you're simply not producing the required quality, attempting to sell or perform commissions right now will only serve to harm your finances and/or reputation. You could even end up in small claims court if a client is particularly unhappy.

A lot of the start-up 'commission' services you see are actually just doing things for their friends or on a very local basis. As soon as you're touting yourself as an actual professional, what people expect of you changes massively.

With ANY business, you need to know your stuff, before you launch the ship, so to speak. I wouldn't become a hairdresser; although I know how to use comb, scissors and clippers I am in no way skilled in coiffure. Even for mates. The chance of me ballsing it up is simply too high.

I echo, if you need cash now, another job is what you need. Get to the job centre - its their job to help you find something you can do, and if you're genuine about it, as opposed to the usual sullen dosser, they're much more helpful.

You are indeed wise and were I a smarter man I'd listen to you....but I'm not so I'll take your words into consideration but until my little business goes tit's up I'm not going to be put off by mere words. I have just completed my first commission so it is clear that some people are interested in my skills. Thank you for all your advice though. You have been very helpful and your advice has certainly stood out on this thread .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well I've just completed my first commission, a magnetized Necron Destroyer, and here it is:

You should post your work to the dakka gallery so people that have photobucket workblocked can see your progress and improvements.

Not trying to be rude but any one can paint Necrons.....Your paint looks super thick. Your line work looks very thick as well. The necron emblem in the middel needs to be touched up. Its ok for a tabletop standerd for some one who just plays and wants a ok to good looking model from a distance. Ive lurked this thread and i can tell a change in your painting. Ive been painting for about six months and been offered to do some work for people. But i have turned them down, I do not feel i am ready to paint for people i do not know. And have them show off something i know isnt great to only look bad in the long run as a bad painter. Im not trying to bash on your work its ok,would i pay for it no would i recommend you no, but i would follow your work. Ive attached some of my work well only what i have pics of on my work computer. Have a look i didnt feel it was right to say anything and not show an of my work for you to judge.

SheSpits wrote:
Not trying to be rude but any one can paint Necrons....

And then you proceed to be rude. Classy.

Anyways, the Destroyer is a huge improvement! The paint is a tad thick, however. If you want to really get models looking good, you need to err on the side of thinner paint and more layers instead of one detail-killing, brush-mark ridden layer.

Also, here's something to consider: just try getting your basecoating and washing down cold and then paint models doing just that. I know a guy that runs a studio in Texas that does tons of commissions at just a basecoat/wash leve, and other higher than that. Here's their site for you to check out > http://www.lazuli-miniatures.com/
~Tim?

ok, all these clowns that are dripping with condescension over how you wouldn't pay for what you see here.... this is the grade of work that forms the basis of Level 2 and Level 3 paint jobs from BTP. Given that BTP continues to do a lot of business and has grown to have a large body of employees such that Shaun is no longer able to have regular updates with everyone is a pretty bloody good indicator to me that people will pay for and are content with that kind of paint job. With the painting fee at ~$2.50-$7.00 per paintjob per model, it's a decent price for a decent job. I've come across models so badly painted that the thickness of paint counts as extra armor for WYSIWYG.......

if i'm going to be playing the game, i'm content with the models only looking good at 24 or 36" distance away, since I'm probably a little occupied with playing the game, not so much appreciating how much better my models look as compared to my opponent. I'd also rather not cringe each time my models tip, and have to handle them like my grandfather's time piece for fear of chipping the paint work...... T_T

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

SheSpits wrote:
Not trying to be rude but any one can paint Necrons....

And then you proceed to be rude. Classy.

Necrons are maybe one of the most simple models to paint. Even if you just dry brush the whole thing they look great. I really can not see how any one can screw them up, if following the norm colors. I also did mention that he has made some improvements as well. If i came off rude im sorry OP didnt mean to piss on your party. How ever one thing i am not is Classy


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 poda_t wrote:
ok, all these clowns that are dripping with condescension over how you wouldn't pay for what you see.

Since i stated i wouldnt pay for his work am i now considerd a clown?

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

SheSpits wrote:
Not trying to be rude but any one can paint Necrons....

And then you proceed to be rude. Classy.

Anyways, the Destroyer is a huge improvement! The paint is a tad thick, however. If you want to really get models looking good, you need to err on the side of thinner paint and more layers instead of one detail-killing, brush-mark ridden layer.

Also, here's something to consider: just try getting your basecoating and washing down cold and then paint models doing just that. I know a guy that runs a studio in Texas that does tons of commissions at just a basecoat/wash leve, and other higher than that. Here's their site for you to check out > http://www.lazuli-miniatures.com/
~Tim?

Ah well thank you. I appriciate your advice however are you surgesting that I just skip the highlighting and layering? Should I at least drybrush after? I don't think that's going to help me in the long run and if I'm going to do that then I mayaswell just dip them don't you think? But I will try it and post the pics. Oh errm, how am I supposed to water down metalic paints without seperating the pigments?

 TyranidPainter wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

SheSpits wrote:
Not trying to be rude but any one can paint Necrons....

And then you proceed to be rude. Classy.

Anyways, the Destroyer is a huge improvement! The paint is a tad thick, however. If you want to really get models looking good, you need to err on the side of thinner paint and more layers instead of one detail-killing, brush-mark ridden layer.

Also, here's something to consider: just try getting your basecoating and washing down cold and then paint models doing just that. I know a guy that runs a studio in Texas that does tons of commissions at just a basecoat/wash leve, and other higher than that. Here's their site for you to check out > http://www.lazuli-miniatures.com/
~Tim?

Ah well thank you. I appriciate your advice however are you surgesting that I just skip the highlighting and layering? Should I at least drybrush after? I don't think that's going to help me in the long run and if I'm going to do that then I mayaswell just dip them don't you think? But I will try it and post the pics. Oh errm, how am I supposed to water down metalic paints without seperating the pigments?

all he's saying is pick one, at most two things, at a time, and do just those till you have those down pat. Trying to do every technique on one model isn't exactly a recipe for a good looking model. Some people paint models by only using inks and washes: they paint the model white, and use grey and black to do the shadows and lighting. Then they go in with inks and washes. The models can look pretty good, but you need to know how to use washes, inks, and you need to know how to do your lighting. It's a neat way to paint, but leave this as a project to try sometime in October once you've developed a thorough understanding of lighting, as this technique can be unforgiving.

I just water down metallic paint like anything else, if its well shaken before I don't find the pigments separating - unless that happens with some not others in which case I haven't come across them...

Also that Necron is an improvement to before.

 poda_t wrote:
ok, all these clowns that are dripping with condescension over how you wouldn't pay for what you see here.... this is the grade of work that forms the basis of Level 2 and Level 3 paint jobs from BTP. Given that BTP continues to do a lot of business and has grown to have a large body of employees such that Shaun is no longer able to have regular updates with everyone is a pretty bloody good indicator to me that people will pay for and are content with that kind of paint job. With the painting fee at ~$2.50-$7.00 per paintjob per model, it's a decent price for a decent job. I've come across models so badly painted that the thickness of paint counts as extra armor for WYSIWYG.......

if i'm going to be playing the game, i'm content with the models only looking good at 24 or 36" distance away, since I'm probably a little occupied with playing the game, not so much appreciating how much better my models look as compared to my opponent. I'd also rather not cringe each time my models tip, and have to handle them like my grandfather's time piece for fear of chipping the paint work...... T_T

Thank you so much, this is probably the most complementary post on here. Thank you, but he has a point. Necrons are quite simple to paint. However they all take time to get to a decent quality.

The metallic paints are water based, just like the rest. I.e. the pigments are suspended in water. Watering them down just means less pigment is suspended in more water. Shake the tub properly, and give it two thin coats instead of one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I highly recommend a wet palette. It does the work for you, and you can achieve a much smoother, crisp finish.

OP, the Necron does indeed look better, the paint thickness has improved but has a bit more to go.

If your getting full coverage in one pass its too thick. Wet pallets are wonderful and I use one made of cheap sponges and parchment paper.

Also I would honestly recommend not buying and painting models on eBay, Its a money sink. As you are in the UK, I would get to know the local Game Clubs, If there is a FLGS (not a GW) I would make friends with the owners. My FLGS has a fully painted GK army that I painted for him in the display case. Its good for his business and If I happen to get passed some off hand stuff that i want to work on I do it, and the store owner gets a cut as I charge in store credit....that's honestly as far as I will go. My willingness to paint to a table top standard for people pays for my plastic crack addiction.

Get to a point where you can at least achieve a high level table top standard across multiple types of models (not just GW, as WM/H players as a whole tend not to want to paint for some reason). Once you are there than I would look to expand and make it a "profession". I am by no means shooting down your dream, I honestly want to see you succeed, and that means taking the steps necessary for you to be consistent in quality, timeliness and professionalism. You need to know things like "How long will it take me to paint these 2500pts of SM, to a table top standard" "How many commissions will I reasonably be able to accept and still have them out on time" "How can I constantly drive business so I don't have 3 month with nothing to paint and no money coming in?"

To be a "Professional Painter" first and foremost means being a professional. As in any profession be it baker, banker, footballer, you have to know it inside and out. Until you are there and learned the hard lessons, do it on the side. See if you haven't burned out in 6 months of just nights and weekends....

All in all good luck. I hope you take the steps that are needed so that you can succeed down the road.

SheSpits wrote:
Necrons are maybe one of the most simple models to paint. Even if you just dry brush the whole thing they look great. I really can not see how any one can screw them up, if following the norm colors. I also did mention that he has made some improvements as well. If i came off rude im sorry OP didnt mean to piss on your party. How ever one thing i am not is Classy

It's fine, I'm not offended, I understand and, to some degree, agree with what you're saying. You did put it rather bluntly though. Saying 'anyone can do it' is underminding my work :(. It's fine though, thanks for your critisizm .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 darefsky wrote:
OP, the Necron does indeed look better, the paint thickness has improved but has a bit more to go.

If your getting full coverage in one pass its too thick. Wet pallets are wonderful and I use one made of cheap sponges and parchment paper.

Also I would honestly recommend not buying and painting models on eBay, Its a money sink. As you are in the UK, I would get to know the local Game Clubs, If there is a FLGS (not a GW) I would make friends with the owners. My FLGS has a fully painted GK army that I painted for him in the display case. Its good for his business and If I happen to get passed some off hand stuff that i want to work on I do it, and the store owner gets a cut as I charge in store credit....that's honestly as far as I will go. My willingness to paint to a table top standard for people pays for my plastic crack addiction.

Get to a point where you can at least achieve a high level table top standard across multiple types of models (not just GW, as WM/H players as a whole tend not to want to paint for some reason). Once you are there than I would look to expand and make it a "profession". I am by no means shooting down your dream, I honestly want to see you succeed, and that means taking the steps necessary for you to be consistent in quality, timeliness and professionalism. You need to know things like "How long will it take me to paint these 2500pts of SM, to a table top standard" "How many commissions will I reasonably be able to accept and still have them out on time" "How can I constantly drive business so I don't have 3 month with nothing to paint and no money coming in?"

To be a "Professional Painter" first and foremost means being a professional. As in any profession be it baker, banker, footballer, you have to know it inside and out. Until you are there and learned the hard lessons, do it on the side. See if you haven't burned out in 6 months of just nights and weekends....

All in all good luck. I hope you take the steps that are needed so that you can succeed down the road.

Thank you. I do own a wet pallet and am geuing used to useing it, however I'm a little anxious about watering down metalic paint.
Also thank you for your advice. I had anticipated that my little buisness may take time to lift off and I had considerd getting my name out around the local gaming clubs however I think it'd be wise to build up a bit of evidence of my work so that they're less likely to laugh and turn me away. Fourtunatly there's not alot of compertition in my area.

A wet pallet shouldn't have much of an effect on metallic paints unless you let them sit there for a few days. The biggest issue I had come across in that regard are paints that don't use liquid pigments (looking at you GW). The Vallejo and army painter metallics haven't let me down in that regard. Also for the best golds/bronzes I cant say enough about the Tamiya alcohol based acrylics, they just blow me away in how rich and amazing they look.

Simple or not, the destroyer looks significantly better than some of the first figures you posted.

Another tip, instead of thinning with water, thin with matte medium. Vallejo also makes metallic medium.

 Ifurita wrote:
Simple or not, the destroyer looks significantly better than some of the first figures you posted.

Another tip, instead of thinning with water, thin with matte medium. Vallejo also makes metallic medium.

wouldn't just one drop of water do some good though? the medium's I've got appear to have sat on the store shelves since... mm... I'm going to guess last christmas.

Guess it depends on how long you'll be using it. Water will eventually result in the pigment separating from the suspension. Medium thins the paint without the separation.

 Ifurita wrote:
Guess it depends on how long you'll be using it. Water will eventually result in the pigment separating from the suspension. Medium thins the paint without the separation.

Acrylic medium is great for increasing transparency when blending and for making glazes, but for your everyday thinning needs, a drop or two of water never goes wrong, and plus, it's way cheaper than buying bottles of medium.

~Tim?

Fair enough. I use water as well to thin.

I haven't yet thought to comment here, but have been silently reading it.

Tim has pointed out one of the best examples of fast and successful painting. I myself have worked with Lazuli and have watched him grow over the last several years.
His clients like his style of painting and rave about the product he produces.
Not to mention Tim himself is an excellent painter!

Winterdyne is also the god of commission advice. I can not think of anyone better to listen to.

I know years ago when I began to do commission work locally, I read his threads and his various advice for others, and it helps a lot.

Onto your painting. Your latest work is a big improvement on your past pieces! Necrons are an army that despite being so easy to paint, people do NOT want to paint!
As already said, you need to thin your paints more, but your on the right track!

Personally I wouldn't magnetize models unless the client requests the service. It is just a time consuming project that at this time is money you are not going to recuperate.

Here is a great blog to check out and will hopefully help you in your en devours!
http://www.fromthewarp.blogspot.com/

For about £20, you can also join Miniature Mentor, a great site with helpful tutorial videos that range from basic technique to advanced sculpting and painting.
The work features world renowned painters and Slayer Sword winners.
http://miniaturementor.com/index.html

Well I've tried watering down my paints but I can't avoid the paint rubbing of the final product :(. Will mediums prevent that?

Generally not. What are you doing to rub paint off? Is it going to primer or bare plastic? What are you priming with?

Lastly, always seal the job when done with a good varnish.

Your photography is getting better, but it still needs some work. The Necron model is too dark and out of focus in some of the pictures. For the focus problems you probably need a tripod and careful attention to making sure everything is properly in focus. For the brightness problems I bet you're using automatic exposure settings, and the bright white background is fooling the camera. The automatic system sees that the average brightness is pretty high (pure white), but what you really care about is the darkest elements of the image. Use manual settings for exposure time and adjust it until you get a clear shot of the model, and just let the background get brighter than it "should" be in real life.

 TyranidPainter wrote:
Saying 'anyone can do it' is undermining my work :(

Sorry, but that's the truth. So far you haven't really moved beyond the basics that anyone willing to invest a little time and effort can do. This is especially true in the case of Necrons, since a clean base coat and wash/drybrush is enough to get decent looking metal and the models don't usually have very many complex and demanding features.

Of course "anyone can do it" doesn't necessarily mean you can't make money. Sure, some high-end commissions are for stuff that the buyer would never be able to do themselves, but a lot of the industry is just doing basic gaming-standard work for people who could paint their own army but don't want to. Well-executed basic techniques are enough for some people as long as you can do it fast and efficiently.

Well I've just orderd some primer paints and a quickshade darktone from....I can't quite remember :S, AC Miniatures I think it was XD. How thick am I lol. Anyway I'm going to attempt to create loads of gaunts using the quickshade method and try selling them on ebay which should pay for my commission tools and models.

Wait... were you not priming your models?

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:
I haven't yet thought to comment here, but have been silently reading it.

For about £20, you can also join Miniature Mentor, a great site with helpful tutorial videos that range from basic technique to advanced sculpting and painting.
The work features world renowned painters and Slayer Sword winners.
http://miniaturementor.com/index.html

Very interested in this. You rate it? Looks to be good value!

 Kr00gZ wrote:

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:
I haven't yet thought to comment here, but have been silently reading it.

For about £20, you can also join Miniature Mentor, a great site with helpful tutorial videos that range from basic technique to advanced sculpting and painting.
The work features world renowned painters and Slayer Sword winners.
http://miniaturementor.com/index.html

Very interested in this. You rate it? Looks to be good value!

I'd give it 5/5 for each video. The basic session is the one for £20 (33 AUS), but for £55 (90 AUS) you can join their subscription program ($7.99 USD/ £6/10AUS per month) and get all videos for .01 quid. (.01 AUS - minimum paypal payment per transaction.)
They send out a newsletter every few months with the release schedules of what videos are coming out as well!

*All prices are estimated based on current exchange rates from the USD prices.

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:


I'd give it 5/5 for each video. The basic session is the one for £20 (33 AUS), but for £55 (90 AUS) you can join their subscription program ($7.99 USD/ £6/10AUS per month) and get all videos for .01 quid. (.01 AUS - minimum paypal payment per transaction.)
They send out a newsletter every few months with the release schedules of what videos are coming out as well!

*All prices are estimated based on current exchange rates from the USD prices.

Thanks! Worked out to be about $79 for subscription. Will see how it goes. Waiting for download links to start working

Awesome! Glad to point someone to such a great site!

Which video did you start with?

Apologies for derailing and hijacking the topic.

OP: keep practicing and try everything! There is no such thing as too much advice.

Try out every technique and you might even find a better way of doing it or a better way *YOU* do it.

I've been painting Tyranids on and off for a few years now and every time I go back to it, there seem to be are new methods to try and even more excellent advice and tutorials.

Good luck!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:
Awesome! Glad to point someone to such a great site!

Which video did you start with?

The first one. The complete guide. Keen to check out some of the Advanced ones on White Cloth next! Got me some Deathwing Sargents needing some painting loving.

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:
Awesome! Glad to point someone to such a great site!

Which video did you start with?

Make it two. I'm very intrigued with this site. I now know where part of the next paycheck is gonna end up. Thank you very much for sharing this!

(Sorry about the Off-topic )

Rite, some more photos of my recent work. I would very much appreciate people opinions on these. Before I post them I should say that the parasite of mortrex was second hand and I only attached the wings and repainted it. I am not responsible for the full assembly of the model.
Here they are:

The feathering on the blue is getting better. Could still do with being a little thinner with the paint and gentler with the flow - the trick is that the brush stroke leaves a stronger colour at the end of the stroke.

Base coats still look a bit scrappy, as do the fine details. You've been a bit heavy with the wash on the red; looks like a black rather than brown. Similar layering to feathering (thin coat, work from recess out to smooth away the tide marks) with the base colour should tidy that up.

It's just a case of practicing for a while till you get this neat I think.

These are nicley painted models but i would keep practising before doing commisions.

the armor on the redmagaunt looks pretty dang sexy. A couple spots on the skin needs some touch-ups, and the teeth need a wash, with either a black or a brown: something to get in between the cracks of the teeth and do the work for you.
Greymagaunt needs work on his carapace. Needs to be edged or hilghlighted with a color. You could do it with grey or white, but then the model will wash out. Try using a dark green, or a dark blue to edge that sucker up. It doesn't need to go up to a bright color, it can stay dark, but just a touch of color to give the black some life. (think magpie: those birds have feathers so black they they sheen with color)

You're getting there dude. Keep practicing and you'll improve quickly.
Basing a model properly also makes a massive difference to the end result.

tomcat31 wrote:
You're getting there dude. Keep practicing and you'll improve quickly.
Basing a model properly also makes a massive difference to the end result.

I see your point. Baseing is expensive but I guess if it makes that much of a difference it's sort of an investment. Thanks .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, this minght be a longshot but since it's £20 for a basing kit at GW it minght be worth asking, does anyone know where I can get some chep basing kits?

 TyranidPainter wrote:

tomcat31 wrote:
You're getting there dude. Keep practicing and you'll improve quickly.
Basing a model properly also makes a massive difference to the end result.

I see your point. Baseing is expensive but I guess if it makes that much of a difference it's sort of an investment. Thanks .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, this minght be a longshot but since it's £20 for a basing kit at GW it minght be worth asking, does anyone know where I can get some chep basing kits?

Haha, I love the balls GW has. 20 quid for a basing kit? Just hit the beach or a creek and grab some sand, buy a $3 tub of static grass from your FLGS and pick up some white glue and you're done! That's literally all you need. I've been doing commissions for 4 years and I've never needed a basing kit.

~Tim?

Not sure about the UK but here in the states, playground sand and the home improvement stores is like $10 for 10lbs, More than you could use for a decades worth of models. I cant imagine it being that much more over there.

I spend almost exactly $0 on basing. Sand is free (or cheap, depending where you live), small rocks are free, white glue is extremely cheap, and a container of static grass will go a long, long way. Even elaborate bases I've made for dioramas costed me... $1 max.

I never pay for basing materials. You can find pieces of slate and stone just lying around, it's just a matter of keeping your eyes open when you're out and about.
Failing that, you can pick up cork tiles for pennies, wine corks can be broken up and used too

The important thing about basing materials.... Stay out of games workshop, and stay out of the citadel section of your hobby supply shop. One tin of fancy grass from GW is almost the same price as a spice jar of monochromatic stuff from woodland scenics. I bought a pack from GF9 as well, and used the static grasses from there to add color and texture to the monochrome from woodland scenics. Heck, I think even the army painter static grass is cheaper.... Flock is actually also a brilliant tool--when used sparingly and properly. I love using flock to do moss, and since that stuff drinks moisture, once you have it on the base, dried up, a touch of watery red pant, and it doesn't look like astro turf growing on a rock anymore. anyway, buying GWs basing materials wil cost you an arm and a leg to, mmmmaybe, get an army done, or a quarter of your game board.... Better to pay up to stuff geared toward model trains and stuff, much more material for the buck.

I'm also a bit lazy, so, often I will grind down many different green basing materials and mix them together to use as my "wild vegetation"--underbrush material, shredded deer moss, flock and static grass".. You name it. I only use this random crapmix on small patches of the base, specifically because it only looks good in small amounts--too much and the random nature fails to show through, and it looks more like a random mix instead of the random stuff that adheres to the base...

I use play pit sand from B&Q. Can't remember how much it was, a few quid. PVA glue from the same. Cat litter for extra size rocks (mIxed gravel is better, cat litter when wet gets very soft). Slate clippings smashed up from garden shale with a hammer. Stolen from outside public buildings a chunk at a time.

One of the other ways to get cheap basing material, at least stateside, is to go to a stone quarry.
I guess that would be the best description. Here in Texas we have several shops that only sell stone, sand, and other such materials. Usually if you go there and ask for a few samples of various materials, you can walk away with enough basing material to last a very long time for free or a few dollars usd.

Other than that, visit a playground during slow hours and scoop some sand and stone into a cup or container.

Antenociti's Workshop is a UK hobby shop with a fantastic range of basing stuff: here's their grass section. They also have a section for leaves, rocks, talus, etc.

As for sand and gravel though, I got some bird sand and bird grit. Dirt cheap and available from most petshops or places like Wilkos. You get about a kilo and they have great texture, especially mixed together (plus, they're sterile!). I did, however, get the basing kit from GW (both of them, actually, the Warhammer and 40k ones) for the slate and the brass cutouts. They were about £8 at the time though!

Between the two packs they gave you four tubs of differently sized slate bits, which I love to use for my ruined city bases. (Think 40k had the two bigger ones) However, you can almost certainly get slate bits for a lot cheaper elsewhere. But the classic static grass, sand and a bit of grit to do an entire army should probably only put you back maybe 70p each for the sand and grit, and maybe a fiver for the grass.

EDIT: Gravel driveways or gardens, if you have permission from the owner, can also be a great source for small rocks to put on bases. Only problem is that you can't pin into a rock (well not with my tools anyway!). Also make sure that you wash them thoroughly before you use them by dumping them in some hot, soapy water. I'd also suggest attaching them to bases using the greenstuff and superglue method. They can make a model pretty heavy. On the bright side though, they're not going to tip!

I am against purloining things off of public space for obvious reasons, in addition to the fact that it's going to take quite a bit of cleaning to get the useless grit out... I've used sand, and i've bought modelling sand..... It's really not the same. Including, but not limited to, the texture and grain of the granules..... And the finished appearance

 LadyCassandra wrote:
Antenociti's Workshop is a UK hobby shop with a fantastic range of basing stuff: here's their grass section. They also have a section for leaves, rocks, talus, etc.

As for sand and gravel though, I got some bird sand and bird grit. Dirt cheap and available from most petshops or places like Wilkos. You get about a kilo and they have great texture, especially mixed together (plus, they're sterile!). I did, however, get the basing kit from GW (both of them, actually, the Warhammer and 40k ones) for the slate and the brass cutouts. They were about £8 at the time though!

Between the two packs they gave you four tubs of differently sized slate bits, which I love to use for my ruined city bases. (Think 40k had the two bigger ones) However, you can almost certainly get slate bits for a lot cheaper elsewhere. But the classic static grass, sand and a bit of grit to do an entire army should probably only put you back maybe 70p each for the sand and grit, and maybe a fiver for the grass.

EDIT: Gravel driveways or gardens, if you have permission from the owner, can also be a great source for small rocks to put on bases. Only problem is that you can't pin into a rock (well not with my tools anyway!). Also make sure that you wash them thoroughly before you use them by dumping them in some hot, soapy water. I'd also suggest attaching them to bases using the greenstuff and superglue method. They can make a model pretty heavy. On the bright side though, they're not going to tip!

Thank you so much. You've been very helpful. In fact you all have. Though tbh, I'm not going to scavenge basing because of my pride. Also it's not exactly a clean thing to do.

 TyranidPainter wrote:
Thank you so much. You've been very helpful. In fact you all have. Though tbh, I'm not going to scavenge basing because of my pride. Also it's not exactly a clean thing to do.

You should always be on the lookout for awesome things laying around to use with modeling; random rocks outside, scrap pieces of metal and wood, spare lengths of wire, etc. Why buy overpriced rocks when there is, well, pretty much a whole planets' worth right outside of your house?

Look at this: http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.com/2009/10/tutorial-overview.html
Go down to the basing sections and read the articles there. Most of those amazing bases they created were made from scavenged materials from all over the place. No one is going to see your work and think, "wow, this guy is so much better for buying insanely overpriced 'basing kits' from GW!" Do yourself a favor and check your pride at the door.

Yeah lots of things you may have lying around house already and no need to really scavenge for. cut a wine cork into wafers, and break apart for rocks, bits of sprue can but cut into 'bricks" and put in piles... old pen's plastic housings can be used as sewer pipes sticking out of ground... wire from broken electronics, gears etc from cheap broken watches.. heck you can even get quit lucky looking in your garden at home, The GW kits are insanely overpiced. I have had a bottle of woodlands scenic flock and static grass for 14 years now.... BEAT THAT GUYS.. lol ok so there was a hobby hiatus in there but still!

instead of pride getting in the way of you getting your models done more affordably, pride yourself in the fact you didn't waste any of your hard earned money (or spend any time working to make that money as opposed to just lookin for a few minutes for spare junk you may have on hand anyhow)

you really never know how much you have right around you that will work, until you try.

Recently I just bought turtle tank gravel that 25% of the bag was too small for my turtle to safely coexist without choking on, so I saved all that stuff (like 4 ziploc sandwhich baggies full) for large rocks for basing. I spent $12-15 on the bag of rocks, which was, probably 10-20 pounds...

You may find that you have lots on hand that will help you save a buck, and learn a trick.


keep an open mind to the advice here, lots of good stuff. work on the things people have said, and repost work and you'll have a new batch of techniques to learn.

good luck in your endeavors, and remember, there is NO shame in saving a buck. That's one less you have to go work for.

-cheers

Scavenge anyway. I keep my eyes peeled, and I've found a small collection of pitch black or milky white stones that are the size of the smallest digit on your pinky or a bit smaller, and polished smooth. If I find enough of them, I'll put them through a tumbler, and start work on Eldar terrain.

Rite I've secured some basing (grass and rocks) for much cheaper than GW sells it for less than a tenner. I also have some colored primer from The Army Painter however I'm not sure if the primer is instead of a white or black primer or wheather it needs to be put on top of it. Help :(.

 TyranidPainter wrote:
Rite I've secured some basing (grass and rocks) for much cheaper than GW sells it for less than a tenner. I also have some colored primer from The Army Painter however I'm not sure if the primer is instead of a white or black primer or wheather it needs to be put on top of it. Help :(.

army painter is usually a colored primer, I think.

You should be able to apply it directly to raw models instead of using white, or black, or grey. be careful you aren't too far away (or too close for that matter for runs and paint being too thick) but being too far away when spraying can make the paint dry before it hits the model and will dry looking like sandpaper, and rub right off

To be honest, your post is a bit confusing, can you rephrase? lol

I think I answered your Q but unsure... Army painter is usually used instead of a black or white primer. Just spray your tyranids blue, then paint all their bone colors, tongues, eyes, etc, then wash the model for shadows, and highlight afterwards is their system I think. (although they dip their models as opposed to washing)... if you go route of using a dip, try out minwax polyshades or something comparable, as the army painter stuff is 3x the cost for the same stuff.

skyfi wrote:
army painter is usually a colored primer, I think.

You should be able to apply it directly to raw models instead of using white, or black, or grey. be careful you aren't too far away (or too close for that matter for runs and paint being too thick) but being too far away when spraying can make the paint dry before it hits the model and will dry looking like sandpaper, and rub right off

To be honest, your post is a bit confusing, can you rephrase? lol

I think I answered your Q but unsure... Army painter is usually used instead of a black or white primer. Just spray your tyranids blue, then paint all their bone colors, tongues, eyes, etc, then wash the model for shadows, and highlight afterwards is their system I think. (although they dip their models as opposed to washing)... if you go route of using a dip, try out minwax polyshades or something comparable, as the army painter stuff is 3x the cost for the same stuff.

Yes you cleard it up. Thank you .

 TyranidPainter wrote:
Rite I've secured some basing (grass and rocks) for much cheaper than GW sells it for less than a tenner. I also have some colored primer from The Army Painter however I'm not sure if the primer is instead of a white or black primer or wheather it needs to be put on top of it. Help :(.

http://www.basecrafts.com

UK based, sensible money. One of their collections will comfortably base a reasonable size army. I've bought a goodly amount from them and not been disappointed.

army painter will tell you what color it is on the side of the can, or by the color of the cap. The first thing you do is spray the built model with primer. LOOK UP INSTRUCTIONS. The bottle should have instructiosn as well.

If you are dealing with a metal or resin model, WASH THE MODEL FIRST. If you've been handling the plastic models for a long time, playing with them, eating chips and picking them up with greasy fingers, then your plastics might need a wash as well. any oils and stuff will cause issues with paint or primer adhering to the model.

all primers are just that, primers. You only really need one color of primer, just be aware that usually primers are best used in concert with certain colors only. If your army is majority red, better to get a red primer, or it's going to be a nightmare painting red over a blue primer.... If it's majority green... best get a green primer.

Black primer is a very quick and "lazy" way of getting shading done, because the lowest layer of "paint" is already black, and you just build up from that. It's universal, but it makes it brutal to work with colors like yellow.

White is the opposite. You don't have shading, but all of the colors are bright and vibrant.

TyranidPainter wrote:Thank you so much. You've been very helpful. In fact you all have. Though tbh, I'm not going to scavenge basing because of my pride. Also it's not exactly a clean thing to do.

You're very welcome. Glad you got something sorted out.

Also, that Basecrafts place is pretty cool, and a treasure trove for inspiration if nothing else . And I thought my bases couldn't get much more over the top...

 azreal13 wrote:
http://www.basecrafts.com

UK based, sensible money. One of their collections will comfortably base a reasonable size army. I've bought a goodly amount from them and not been disappointed.

Wow that site is amazing. And postage is alot cheaper than most since it's a British based company. Thank you for pointing it out to me. I may become a regular customer of that site. Cheers pal .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LadyCassandra wrote:
You're very welcome. Glad you got something sorted out.

Also, that Basecrafts place is pretty cool, and a treasure trove for inspiration if nothing else . And I thought my bases couldn't get much more over the top...

Thank you. And that it is, I have a new fave site for basing. Not that I had a fave site for basing before, but hey, I do now lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You've all been so helpful to me on here that I kinda feel like I'd be taking liberties by asking you for further help however I'm going to keep seeking help untill my models get to those elusive professional standards. I'm hoping my current project will get there however I realise how ambitious that'll sound. Anyway what I want to know is when and for what purpose do you guys drybrush. What I've done with my current model is primed it, magnetized it, washed it blue and now before layering it with deneb stone and bleached bone I've decided to drybrush deneb stone onto it, for a number of reasons.

I use it on areas of high detail that would take too long to highlight - fur, textures, cloth etc. I only use it if I'm putting a wash or dip over it afterwards - that helps to reduce the powdery chalky effect.

If anyone's interested I'm selling my Spacewolves here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spacewolves-Army-With-Codex-Assembled-Fully-Painted-Perfect-Starter-Booster-A-/111119320998?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item19df3a47a6
See pic below for example:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rite now here's my current project wich I'm hoping is going to be my first model to reach above a 7 on CMON. It's not finished yet but I'd like to know what you guys think. Thanks.

It's a great start. Post a new picture when it's finished.

Looking good. Keep it up dude

Muuuuch better. The basecoats are looking very clean and smooth. Keep it up!

~Tim?

For the close up shots are you using the macro feature (symbol is usually a flower)? Using that should give you better results close in

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
For the close up shots are you using the macro feature (symbol is usually a flower)? Using that should give you better results close in

Yes I was believe it or not. I'm planning on getting a camera of my own so I'll be on the lookout for better ones.

You might want to make sure that the pictures are in focus then, especially if you are taking pictures for eBay/your portfolio/your customers.

On your ebay photos, the camera is automatically adjusting to the background color (white) to avoid over exposure. This means the models, which are significantly darker, end up too dark.

You either need to turn off that automatic exposure and manually adjust it to see the models better, or use a background that isn't as bright and is closer in tone to the actual models.

Also, judging by the shadows, you don't have enough light in front of them (making the exposure issue look even worse).

Also watch out when taking a photo like the one of the models in front of the Space Wolf codex. The light has reflected off the glossy codex cover straight in to the camera. This is another one of those things that will mess up the exposure. When photographing things that want to reflect light back at you, position your lights off at an angle, so the direct reflection isn't straight back in to the camera, and rather you only get the diffused light shining back in to the camera.

You need to work on getting slightly better lighting going. I would suggest a very simply setup using the following:

Pick up a pair of these:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/19677231?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=21486607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=19880599990&veh=sem

and put these in them:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-14-Watt-60W-Daylight-CFL-Light-Bulbs-4-Pack-E-ES5M814450K/100687001#.UeP5N23IbGg

Put your minis on some sort of backdrop (a curved sheet of white printer paper), and get the light close. If you want to dilute it a bit, putting a little parchment paper or wax paper over the lamps can give you some more control... But using 2 lamps with 2 bulbs and some paper I got what you see below:


Which was taken with my Pentax camera (a decent quality DSLR), and is it perfect? No, but it's cheap and effective.

 Alfndrate wrote:
You need to work on getting slightly better lighting going. I would suggest a very simply setup using the following:

Pick up a pair of these:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/19677231?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=21486607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=19880599990&veh=sem

and put these in them:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-14-Watt-60W-Daylight-CFL-Light-Bulbs-4-Pack-E-ES5M814450K/100687001#.UeP5N23IbGg

Put your minis on some sort of backdrop (a curved sheet of white printer paper), and get the light close. If you want to dilute it a bit, putting a little parchment paper or wax paper over the lamps can give you some more control... But using 2 lamps with 2 bulbs and some paper I got what you see below:


Which was taken with my Pentax camera (a decent quality DSLR), and is it perfect? No, but it's cheap and effective.

Those models are exellent, where on earth did you get them from? I mean the painting and the photo quality are brill but I was more interested in the fact that you've got canine samuri. How amazing!
Also thanks for your advice but I can't see those sites on my phone so I'll check them out later. But thanks in advance lol.

I think these are brushfire, a game produced from one of our very own dakkanauts.

 TyranidPainter wrote:
Those models are exellent, where on earth did you get them from? I mean the painting and the photo quality are brill but I was more interested in the fact that you've got canine samuri. How amazing!
Also thanks for your advice but I can't see those sites on my phone so I'll check them out later. But thanks in advance lol.

They are Red Pandas from Brushfire's Chugoku faction, written, produced, and sold by Cyporiean, miskatonicalum, and I helped here and there (I mostly helped on their second game Endless: Fantasy Tactics).

Basing costs very little for me. I use the same schedule for all of my armies ... a bit boring, but everything looks consistant on the tabletop.

I take sand from the local playground and sift it through a colandar to get rid of excess debris and large chunks. This gets glued to base with standard white glue. Then, it gets a Burnt Umber wash (made out of Liquetex Soft Acryclics) which helps lock down the sand, drybrushed, and then I apply patches of static grass.

Looking good i would clean up around the neck area. Have you picked up any wash yet? Would really come in handy on this big bug.

SheSpits wrote:
Looking good i would clean up around the neck area. Have you picked up any wash yet? Would really come in handy on this big bug.

Err yes, and applied before taking this picture. Can you not see the blue in the ribs and the reccesses. That the wash. Are you thinking of another colour to put over it as it is? This isn't a commisson so I'm open to surgestions .

 TyranidPainter wrote:

SheSpits wrote:
Looking good i would clean up around the neck area. Have you picked up any wash yet? Would really come in handy on this big bug.

Err yes, and applied before taking this picture. Can you not see the blue in the ribs and the reccesses. That the wash. Are you thinking of another colour to put over it as it is? This isn't a commisson so I'm open to surgestions .

I only asked because the skin looks so bland, The blue hints look great but the over all skin looks like it is lacking. Not sure what color to go with for the skin (not the blue parts) to give it depth. Im still learning how to work with white,bone and light greys. I know there is a greyish wash you could use on the skin then follow up with some highlights. You might have done this already but it is a little hard for me to see.

I finaly have a spray gun. Yay ! I certainly feel professional but it doesn't half use up paint. Washes at least :(.

 TyranidPainter wrote:
I finaly have a spray gun. Yay ! I certainly feel professional but it doesn't half use up paint. Washes at least :(.

Did you get the GW spray gun? If so, you poor soul .

 Alfndrate wrote:
Did you get the GW spray gun? If so, you poor soul .

No no. I believe it was called a Badger Spray gun.

Haha, that's not too bad, better than GW. Though GW does get props for making it look like a flamer...

So I found this thread because I saw the following two images:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/513196-Dark%20Elves%2C%20Snow.html
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/513195-.html

Both of which link back to this thread, however, those images were taken from:
http://handcannononline.com/blog/2011/08/19/ghools-gallery-a-montage-of-gaming-models/

Just saying.

You sure about that? the link you provided that you say these were taken from show miniatures painted in a far better quality than the Word Bearer model...

Just saying.

When I click on those links, I get taken to these images:
First Image:


Second Image:


Which are nothing in quality when compared to these images from the third link you posted (Spoilered for bigness):


Well you get the point.

what made you look at airbrushes and spray guns? you're trying for a little too much all at once.

I have to agree with poda_t, I'm a fully qualified automotive sprayer, but wouldn't dream of airbrushing my minis until I improve my basic skills. Good luck to you though.

 Alfndrate wrote:
You sure about that? the link you provided that you say these were taken from show miniatures painted in a far better quality than the Word Bearer model...

Just saying.

When I click on those links, I get taken to these images:
First Image:


Second Image:


Which are nothing in quality when compared to these images from the third link you posted (Spoilered for bigness):

Spoiler:

Well you get the point.

Yeah, what I am saying is the photos on Dakka link back to here, this thread, this guy obviously did not paint those professional quality models and I found the original site (via a google image search) to show where they were borked from.

Okay, I'm thinking there is a disconnect here...

Neither of the two images you linked were painted or uploaded to Dakka by the OP of this thread. The third link, the list of images that were painted by "Ghool" don't show either of the first two images that you linked. The OP of this thread (unless I'm missing something due to workblock) has never claimed to paint those miniatures...


Edit: I think you're talking about the post that neal1975 made and The post Thokt made, quoting the "mini freek"?

I havn't even seen those photos before. And like I've already stated I don't paint chaos. I have no idea why they would link you here but hey, welcome to my thread.
To answer other peoples questisons on the spray gun, I collect a horde army so having Army Painter Primers and a spray gun to do the washes realy saves me alot of time . Just not so much paint :( lol XD.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Okay, I'm thinking there is a disconnect here...

Neither of the two images you linked were painted or uploaded to Dakka by the OP of this thread. The third link, the list of images that were painted by "Ghool" don't show either of the first two images that you linked. The OP of this thread (unless I'm missing something due to workblock) has never claimed to paint those miniatures...


Edit: I think you're talking about the post that neal1975 made and The post Thokt made, quoting the "mini freek"?

Right off the page:
http://handcannononline.com/wp-content/gallery/ghools-pp-minis/skarre_new.jpg
http://handcannononline.com/wp-content/gallery/ghools-non-pp-minis/ice_queen_comp.jpg

Corrected Dakka Links:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/513196-Dark%20Elves%2C%20Snow.html
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/513195-.html

While the OP may not have done this, someone did. I was only pointing out how I came to this thread, expecting to preview more of this awesome work only to find the links were false. *Shrug* Info is out there, whether the OP is friends with the dude who submitted those or not the linking to the thread is misleading.

He's not friends with the dude who posted those images, please actually READ the thread first.

The OP is asking who wants cheap, professionally painted miniatures. People have said, "You need to work on x, y, z" and have been going from there since. If you see images that don't belong to the post, then you can report the images...

Edit: You could also state how you saw the original images. Were you skimming this thread? If so, you should have noticed that the guy who posted them, Thokt was not the OP of this thread, a user named TyranidPainter.

Those images have nothing to do with this thread, maybe it's a fault in the link, insinuating something sinister going on seems a little like trolling.
Tyranid painter has asked for advice and taken it, leaving to a vast improvement in his painting skills, and lets face it , who hasn't ever clicked on a link and ended up somewhere completely different to their intended destination

 Jstncloud wrote:


While the OP may not have done this, someone did. I was only pointing out how I came to this thread, expecting to preview more of this awesome work only to find the links were false. *Shrug* Info is out there, whether the OP is friends with the dude who submitted those or not the linking to the thread is misleading.

but, this is how a lot of the forums work. Conversation is initiated, references are made to other threads images, and discussion continues. Otherwise it's like yelling into a canyon: you'll only hear your own voice calling back at you.

If you want to see glorious gallery images.... there is a function for that on this website, along with another site called "Cool mini or not".

 Jstncloud wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Okay, I'm thinking there is a disconnect here...

Neither of the two images you linked were painted or uploaded to Dakka by the OP of this thread. The third link, the list of images that were painted by "Ghool" don't show either of the first two images that you linked. The OP of this thread (unless I'm missing something due to workblock) has never claimed to paint those miniatures...


Edit: I think you're talking about the post that neal1975 made and The post Thokt made, quoting the "mini freek"?

Right off the page:
http://handcannononline.com/wp-content/gallery/ghools-pp-minis/skarre_new.jpg
http://handcannononline.com/wp-content/gallery/ghools-non-pp-minis/ice_queen_comp.jpg

Corrected Dakka Links:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/513196-Dark%20Elves%2C%20Snow.html
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/513195-.html

While the OP may not have done this, someone did. I was only pointing out how I came to this thread, expecting to preview more of this awesome work only to find the links were false. *Shrug* Info is out there, whether the OP is friends with the dude who submitted those or not the linking to the thread is misleading.

There is nothing misleading about the linking to this thread if you actually read the thread instead of trying to be some sort of whistleblower. The user, Thokt, who uploaded the pictures then added them to a reply stating his opinion that the OP might be in over his head about starting a commission business. That post his here:

Here's a little tid bit to give a better grasp on how tough the commission road can be:

From Mini Freek:

"No Longer Accepting Commissions!
Due to my finances needing a bit of a lift, I'm going to be going back to work full-time, as my commissions pay me about 50% of minimum wage. It's a tough decision to make, but I'd like to attend some more conventions next year, and in order to do-so, I have to increase my income substantially."

Examples of his work:

So yes, the "info is out there"... if you read the thread.

And now the connection between the images and this thread is clear, this would have been prevented if the images had descriptions stating why the links were there (how was I to know he had a thread, I was directed to this one).

Also, for the sake of the original poster sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. Honest mistake on my part and hopefully those who have read these responses (and my apology) understand where I was coming from.

I went back and found the page in the thread were the images I had found while surfing were used and I understand what point the post was trying to get across, however I had no idea those were even in the thread to begin with nor why they were linking here, now I do. As stated a description on the images would have been useful, honest mistake and I apologize again for all of the off topic posts that have been spawned because of it.

For what it is worth if it has not been said already (and it may very well have been, but I obviously haven't read all 9 pages of this thread) here are some great YouTube channels that have users who generate great tutorials:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0vYyCks8CDWZBHz-qtZhbA
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsVtZ8SRClYf4tPzy8HjNtA

If those have not been presented previously I hope that you find them useful

Again, my apologies for the mishap here.

Good luck with your commission painting and I hope to see more of your photos soon, I do spend more time than I should browsing the 'vote on images' thingy.

Sounds like you've got a lot of forums to straighten out bub.

TP, your stuff is looking better. Kudos.

Thokt wrote:
Sounds like you've got a lot of forums to straighten out bub.

TP, your stuff is looking better. Kudos.

Should probably slap a description on your two images that link here bub, that would have really helped clear this mess up because at first glance it is an easy mistake to make (the one I obviously did).

Dude, there is nothing to get to the bottom of, there is nothing "fishy" going on here, no one is getting hoodwinked, nothing nefarious needs to be exposed for the good of the people. You are tilting at windmills here.

The guy doesn't have his own thread that the pictures were posted to: he replied to this one, it is on page 4 toward the bottom!

Please, instead of automatically assuming that someone trying to do something naughty, read the entire thread before posting nonsense and derailing the topic.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Dude, there is nothing to get to the bottom of, there is nothing "fishy" going on here, no one is getting hoodwinked, nothing nefarious needs to be exposed for the good of the people. You are tilting at windmills here.

The guy doesn't have his own thread that the pictures were posted to: he replied to this one, it is on page 4 toward the bottom!

Please, instead of automatically assuming that someone trying to do something naughty, read the entire thread before posting nonsense and derailing the topic.

I made my apologies, however this is an honest mistake. What if I had found those images linking here and he 'didn't' post in this thread? What if he had posted them elsewhere? It is entirely possible to miss information, the connections were made and I have seen them, made my apologies and understand what the situation is.

No mess here, you're the only confused party.

Thokt wrote:
No mess here, you're the only confused party.

Sigh, confused because I found images linking here, images with votes (that should have had voting disabled) and I did not understand why. It is entirely possible for someone other than myself to see those same images think 'these are awesome!' and then see the first post with images in this thread and go 'hmmm something is weird here.'

It is possible for this to happen again, it would be helpful for a quick description to be on those images, but alas I am wrong on all points apparently.

Dude it's all good, this thread has helped me and probably countless other people, not least the op.
now can we please get back on topic and do what this forum is intended for. Tyranidpainter. Keep it up dude, you're an example to us all.
I thought I was good until I saw what others could do

 Jstncloud wrote:

Thokt wrote:
No mess here, you're the only confused party.

Sigh, confused because I found images linking here, images with votes (that should have had voting disabled) and I did not understand why. It is entirely possible for someone other than myself to see those same images think 'these are awesome!' and then see the first post with images in this thread and go 'hmmm something is weird here.'

It is possible for this to happen again, it would be helpful for a quick description to be on those images, but alas I am wrong on all points apparently.

given your affiliation with B4H, I would think long and hard just what it was that I typed out, given how it might impair the pubic perception of the company you work for as being lazy and unengaged, and then indignant when having it pointed out to you that you are being lazy...

The topical content has changed, but the content is still the same which is "want cheap professionally painted warhammer?" and one of those ways is to do it yourself, and a great deal of what's discussed in this thread, along with linked images, is what to do and how to do it, and how to emulate it. To that regard, where this theme is concerned, OP was advised how to improve painting, and along the way, many others picked up a lot of tips. With this thread approaching 9'000 views, you're the only one to raise a complaint about the presence of inferior and superior work side-by-side... which strikes me as very strange given it's difficult to assess one's progress or the reality of one's own talent without comparing it against others' work.

 Jstncloud wrote:

Thokt wrote:
No mess here, you're the only confused party.

Sigh, confused because I found images linking here, images with votes (that should have had voting disabled) and I did not understand why. It is entirely possible for someone other than myself to see those same images think 'these are awesome!' and then see the first post with images in this thread and go 'hmmm something is weird here.'

It is possible for this to happen again, it would be helpful for a quick description to be on those images, but alas I am wrong on all points apparently.

Why can't you seem to understand that you're the only one confused here? I repeat, you're the ONLY person in this entire thread to have this issue. Are you on some kind of medication that impairs logical thought patterns and reading comprehension?

Anyways, back on topic: have you got any more updates for us, 'Nid painter? I'd really like to see how that big 'Nid is turning out!

~Tim?

+1 to tim. Please don't let this thread get locked due to trolling.its a genuine gold mine of information. And even better nidpainter has become one of us, ie someone who wants to improve and grow as anARTIST.. Sit back and learn, or don't post.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Why can't you seem to understand that you're the only one confused here? I repeat, you're the ONLY person in this entire thread to have this issue. Are you on some kind of medication that impairs logical thought patterns and reading comprehension?

Anyways, back on topic: have you got any more updates for us, 'Nid painter? I'd really like to see how that big 'Nid is turning out!

~Tim?

Woah woah woah, calm down there. I don't want any fallouts........well any MORE fallouts on this thread. And fyi he's not the only one that's confused. Being the OP I have realy tried to understand what on earth has just happend but I havn't got a clue. Oh well, if it's been sorted now I'll not worry myself with it. I'd appriciate it if we can just forget about it now and get back to the topic at hand. Thanks for sticking up for me though Tim. As for the Swarmlord, well the Swarmlord is finished however I have magnetized it and am now working on it's other limbs. I'll upload a pic when I can though. No promisses as to when that minght be though :(. I think I've hit a brick wall with my painting though. I think this should get a 7 on CMON but if not I'm going to keep going untill I knock down that brick wall and am classed as a proffesional. Even if that mean I'm still painting warhammer as an old man lol.

TP: One f. Two s's.

As for the fallout on this thread, that gets two f's and an s.

I'd strongly advise against spraying washes. You'll learn more from working by hand and directing them. Later on you might spray them as a filter occasionally, but even that is more likely to be a custom mix.

In more than 4 years pro work (and 25 years painting) I think of sprayed wash maybe twice. And those were (failed) experiments.

The only time I've sprayed a wash I managed to use alot more paint than I'd of ever done by hand and mist it largely over my windowsill without really getting a good shadow effect in the crevices that I needed. Not that this is definately going to happen and for those who know what they're doing its probably a really rookie error but washing by hand is so simple its largely not worth the rish.

winterdyne wrote:
TP: One f. Two s's.

As for the fallout on this thread, that gets two f's and an s.

I'd strongly advise against spraying washes. You'll learn more from working by hand and directing them. Later on you might spray them as a filter occasionally, but even that is more likely to be a custom mix.

In more than 4 years pro work (and 25 years painting) I think of sprayed wash maybe twice. And those were (failed) experiments.

That's really good to know, was thinking about giving it a go (got an airbrush recently...ish).

Kinda lurking on this one, but really enjoying the concise advice here, especially from Winterdyne and Some_Call_Me_Tim

I've got some tints that work well in an airbrush (Minitaire Ghost tints), but they are most definitely NOT washes. hand paint the washes on.