Gamer guys, beware: You may take on a female avatar in online role-playing games, but chances are, you're revealing subtle clues about your true gender.
Boys will be boys online, according to a new study of players of the massive multiplayer online game "World of Warcraft." Men who play using female avatars still display male patterns of movement, the research shows. And they don't act quite as feminine as actual female players during chat conversations, either.
The study suggests that true anonymity is hard to come by, said lead researcher Mia Consalvo, a professor of game studies and design at Concordia University in Montreal.
"You can't leave these things behind," Consalvo told Live Science. "It's not like what we used to think the Internet was — some crazy space where you could totally try different things." [Science Fact or Fantasy? 20 Imaginary Worlds]
Gender switch
Consalvo and her colleagues were interested in studying online gender swapping, because the practice is quite common. A previous study found that 79 percent of players in massive multiplayer online games report having played as another gender at some point, and about 30 percent do so regularly. Interestingly, women almost always play using female avatars, Consalvo said, while men are more likely to swap.
The researchers set up an add-on quest, dubbed "Menace of the Masked Marauders," and invited "World of Warcraft" players to join. They divided the 375 volunteers into groups of three or four , who worked together to complete the quest. The quest was set up to force players to engage in a variety of behaviors, from having chat conversations to waging battles and solving word puzzles.
The participants ranged in age from 18 to 55, and 56 percent were men. Twenty-three percent of the men swapped genders and played with female avatars, while only 7 percent of women played as male avatars.
Subtle hints
The researchers tracked the behaviors of men playing as males, women playing as females and men playing as females. (There were not enough women playing as males to analyze that segment.)
The results revealed that male players acting as male avatars issued more directions to fellow players and used fewer emoticons and less emotional language than women playing as female avatars. The male players with female avatars fell right between these two groups, issuing fewer directions and using more emotional modes of communication than male avatars controlled by men, but not to the extent of female avatars controlled by women.
In player movements, males playing as female avatars really showed their true colors. Men moved and jumped more, and stood farther from other players when they clustered in groups, even when they played as females. The jumping was particularly noticeable: Men playing as a female avatar jumped 112 times more on average during a quest than women playing as a female avatar.
It's not clear why male players jumped more than female ones, Consalvo said. "It could be attention-getting," she said. "A way to literally stand out in the crowd, sort of the equivalent of waving your arms around."
The players got to decide whether they swapped genders, so researchers also aren't sure how much of the behavioral changes occur because men are trying to alter their behavior when they play with a gender-swapped avatar, or whether the men who decide to swap avatars behave differently no matter what. They did not find differences in these behaviors based on the players' own levels of stereotypically masculine and feminine traits, however.
"We still believe a little bit that we can be different, be anonymous online," Consalvo said. "I think this research shows that we really do bring ourselves into these online spaces. … The traces of who we are, and how we build ourselves up, and how we act and how we talk — we're taking all of those things with us. And part of that is our gender socialization."
The researchers report their findings online in January in the journal Information, Communication & Society.
The thing I found interesting was how much more often male players jump. 112 times damn
Jumping might be one of those things left over from games where you moved fasted jumping while encumbered and or leveld up acrobatics from jumping everywhere. Also helps you clear rocks and so on left scattered on the ground
Men who play using female avatars still display male patterns of movement, the research shows. And they don't act quite as feminine as actual female players during chat conversations, either.
A man playing a cosmetically female computer game character still behaves like a man? Earth shattering.
I think that the jumping thing is due to boredom, in WoW I tend to 'jump' a lot simply for something else to do other than hold down 'w'.
I'm with Palindrome on the jumping thing. It's just a thing to do... Though being male and not a sociologist or whatever ology these people study perhaps i'm not equipped to say.
Interesting piece. I was hoping it would delve into the why males play gender swapped characters but this is fascinating as well. I personally don't jump a lot because I think it looks stupid but I'm just a freak.
Though I will echo the above comment. The conclusion isn't as interesting as the results.
Yes, I played female avatars. You wanna fight about it?
The conclusion strikes me as nonsense. My initial guess would be that jumping is just something people do out of boredom (though that fails to explain why the men did it more frequently) or that its a left over from older MMO's where jumping conferred an advantage.
I remember seeing people who jumped constantly in WoW but I never understood why.
Space bar is big and makes the avatar do something somewhat amusing. Breaks up the drudgery of seeing a big burly man (Or really thin woman) walking through the Barrens.
Perhaps because a lot of these male players also played previous MMO's?
You'd need a background study to prove it but it might just be as Lime says. The spacebar is big and satisfying to press.
Though repeating it would probably help...
Maybe once or twice.
TheCustomLime wrote: Space bar is big and makes the avatar do something somewhat amusing. Breaks up the drudgery of seeing a big burly man (Or really thin woman) walking through the Barrens.
That, and jumping everywhere lets you get into novel places occasionally. That, and the floor is lava.
I don't play MMOs, but I jumped a lot in Morrowind and Oblivion, but not as much in skyrim. In morrowind it was because I found out that jumping in confined space sometimes triggered a bug where you glided around the room mid jump, very fun.
Also I tend to play exclusively male characters. Not questioning the results of the study though, sounds interesting.
Men who play using female avatars still display male patterns of movement, the research shows. And they don't act quite as feminine as actual female players during chat conversations, either.
A man playing a cosmetically female computer game character still behaves like a man? Earth shattering.
I think that the jumping thing is due to boredom, in WoW I tend to 'jump' a lot simply for something else to do other than hold down 'w'.
I am exactly with that comment...jumping makes the boring a little less boring...
and I often chose a female avatar in WOW ...because... it is nicer to look at a firm female bloodeves bum than at a males one... after more than two years you know what I mean...
Don't most WoW characters have capes? I mean it wouldn't matter if you were looking at a sexy female cape or a sexy male cape because they're both capes...
It's not clear why male players jumped more than female ones, Consalvo said. "It could be attention-getting," she said. "A way to literally stand out in the crowd, sort of the equivalent of waving your arms around."
Man, all the times when I stood at a train station and waved my arms around!
Got a source on this? This looks like a really, really terrible research.
This study isn't particularly revealing - I think by now most people are aware that the gap between genders isn't as black and white as was once believed, and that there are many "shades of grey" in-between.
[edit] That said, the "why" would be more interesting than the numbers themselves. Do the players project themselves onto the character they play? I know I don't, at least not fully - and actually I find "playing yourself" a rather boring prospect. Shows and movies with female heroines are also popular with at least a portion of the male audience, which I'd wager is actually larger than the women who watch this stuff. Perhaps it's just because female heroes (understandably) feel less common, and thus come across as being more exotic, and thus more interesting to a large number of men?
[edit #2] I also remember that this topic came up before, and at least some people answered they picked female avatars just because they'd rather stare at a girl's ass than a guy's, so there is that, too.
(There were not enough women playing as males to analyze that segment)
This is a shame. I would've liked to see the data anyways, even if it was just 25-28 players.
TheCustomLime wrote:I personally don't jump a lot because I think it looks stupid but I'm just a freak.
Same here.
I too believe that jumping is popular because people get bored easily (especially in a theme park MMO that tries to overload your senses at every corner - it may support the development of players that behave like kids who are high on sugar), and "push button = something happens" works. I mean, you have some people jump even when they're otherwise not moving. It could also be attention-trabbing in that I always used to see this happen a lot more in crowded areas than less populated ones.
In truth, it's probably a mixture of several different reasons; perhaps the average male gamer just "owns" more of them than the average female gamer.
Edit - found something suitable to accompany this.
I played female avatars for variety in my characters. Gets kind of boring playing the same big burly men over and over again. I was also a roleplayer when I played so I did it to roleplay as a girl. I must say it was a very enlightening experience on how society treats the genders differently.
Sigvatr wrote: I exclusively play female characters in MMORPGs - if I have to stare at a character's ass for tons of hours, I'd prefer it to be a female ass.
I don't know about you but I usually looked at the back of my character's head or at the area just before my character.
Lynata wrote: This study isn't particularly revealing - I think by now most people are aware that the gap between genders isn't as black and white as was once believed, and that there are many "shades of grey" in-between.
[edit] That said, the "why" would be more interesting than the numbers themselves. Do the players project themselves onto the character they play? I know I don't, at least not fully - and actually I find "playing yourself" a rather boring prospect. Shows and movies with female heroines are also popular with at least a portion of the male audience, which I'd wager is actually larger than the women who watch this stuff. Perhaps it's just because female heroes (understandably) feel less common, and thus come across as being more exotic, and thus more interesting to a large number of men?
[edit #2] I also remember that this topic came up before, and at least some people answered they picked female avatars just because they'd rather stare at a girl's ass than a guy's, so there is that, too.
(There were not enough women playing as males to analyze that segment)
This is a shame. I would've liked to see the data anyways, even if it was just 25-28 players.
TheCustomLime wrote:I personally don't jump a lot because I think it looks stupid but I'm just a freak.
Same here.
I too believe that jumping is popular because people get bored easily (especially in a theme park MMO that tries to overload your senses at every corner - it may support the development of players that behave like kids who are high on sugar), and "push button = something happens" works. I mean, you have some people jump even when they're otherwise not moving. It could also be attention-trabbing in that I always used to see this happen a lot more in crowded areas than less populated ones.
In truth, it's probably a mixture of several different reasons; perhaps the average male gamer just "owns" more of them than the average female gamer.
Edit - found something suitable to accompany this.
I am more surprised that some people found the movie predator to be a male power fantasy just because only Arnold the manliness of men made it out alive. This is funny to me since not every guy wants to be an alpha male. That's like saying every girl wants to be Barbie and yet whenever Barbie is thrown up it's about women having to live up to unrealistic standards. Now this is just me but when I watch an action movie stupid or not I watch it to get pumped and to laugh at how over-the-top ridiculous it is. It's like somebody trying to hit a passerby with a sword while commanding a tank (yeah that commissar in tank pic). Besides how is aliens not offensive to men? Mostly if not only men are basically getting face raped by alien bugs with giant testicles and then they have their intestines which is supposed to be like giving birth all the while the woman plays the hero and saves everybody's asses. I could be wrong but there seems to be a lot of worse guys characters in alien than good ones including bad qualities. I'm not sure if there have even been any female bad guys. One could almost make the claim that the movie is offensive to men but nobody would hear it and just consider it equal even though men are women's b*tches in aliens movies.
Here's the thing. People need to make movies and games where the men and women are both good or useful and can be sympathized with. I mean I'm not sure how what they've been doing but there seems to be infinitely more gender choice options available in RPG's and games that more frequently girls play. A step in the right direction but I figure military games should at least include 25-30% of the soldiers being women just like how a smaller but important percentage of women fight or at least work in the military.
@Sigvatr: It's an attempt by gaming companies to turn you gay all thanks to democrats pulling string in corporations. They want to increase the gay crowd and thus their probable percentage of vote at the polls ;P.
Fafnir wrote: Sometimes you just pick whatever looks better. And in a lot of games, the male characters look more like a fridge than an actual human.
As for the whole jumping thing... boob physics.
Physics and MMO's have never really been on the best of terms.
They have gravity that means you fall down and not up (Most of the time) and that's about it.
flamingkillamajig wrote:I am more surprised that some people found the movie predator to be a male power fantasy just because only Arnold the manliness of men made it out alive. This is funny to me since not every guy wants to be an alpha male. That's like saying every girl wants to be Barbie and yet whenever Barbie is thrown up it's about women having to live up to unrealistic standards.
You'll always have at least one person complain about anything. Some things should just not be paid attention to - it's when a pattern emerges that it actually warrants closer investigation.
And yes, Barbie does kind of indoctrinate little girls. There's been studies and experiments about this sort of stuff.
flamingkillamajig wrote:Now this is just me but when I watch an action movie stupid or not I watch it to get pumped and to laugh at how over-the-top ridiculous it is.
Agreed. The old Schwarzenegger movies in particular are a guilty pleasure of mine.
Though, as much as I loved Expendables 1 and 2, and can't wait to see the third, I think I'd enjoy it more if they'd throw in one or two female action vets too. The famous ones from the 90s are probably too old by now, and Hollywood needs them to look hot - but why not add Milla Jovovich, Kristanna Loken or Michelle Rodriguez to the mix? Just two would be enough - we wouldn't want some men feel threatened, would we.
flamingkillamajig wrote:One could almost make the claim that the movie is offensive to men but nobody would hear it and just consider it equal even though men are women's b*tches in aliens movies.
Well, the Aliens trilogy is commonly lauded as being THE breakthrough for the concept of a female main character, an exception from the rule, and a major step forward for the perception of women in the media.
So I suppose someone who thinks that women should never be heroes anywhere could make that claim, yes. I'm sure there are people like that.
flamingkillamajig wrote:Here's the thing. People need to make movies and games where the men and women are both good or useful and can be sympathized with. I mean I'm not sure how what they've been doing but there seems to be infinitely more gender choice options available in RPG's and games that more frequently girls play. A step in the right direction but I figure military games should at least include 25-30% of the soldiers being women just like how a smaller but important percentage of women fight or at least work in the military.
At the moment I'm not sure about the direction the video game industry is moving towards - there have been both steps forward as well as steps back as far as gender equality is concerned. In a way, it's a reflection of our culture's current struggle with the issue in that there are opposing trends trying to vie for acceptance, which results in wildly different products being released and then subsequently being ripped apart and defended from the gaming community in rather vocal conflicts that commonly feature a plethora of insults and sometimes even death threats.
It's not just gender, though. Race as well. I actually liked Sleeping Dogs simply because you played an Asian dude for a change (that, and the location was interesting)
Thing is I'm not complaining that a woman is the main character it's just the women are generally the b*dasses in that movie without much exception and guys are usually alien rape bait. Not always but more frequently.
Strangely enough I think somebody even said something along the lines of 'starship troopers' being unfair to women at one point and (on Cracked.com I think) and I don't see it. That seems like one of the more men and women working together and cooperating as a team movies that you could get. Women were not damsels in distress except for that one annoying ex-girlfriend but there were guys we hated too so that was ok. I think it was dizzy that was awesome
Speaking of starship troopers does anybody else feel weird that for such a gay looking guy (neil Patrick harris) which is actually gay in real life they oddly keep throwing him in roles as the manliest man who gets all the ladies?
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I'm not sure if I can speak for others here but being a guy isn't always super sunshine and rainbows all the time either. Guys can't do hurt women for crap but a woman could probably beat the crap out of a guy without fear of much legal repercussion. Have you ever heard anybody (man or woman) tell young boys to "Man Up!"? My mom and other women have as well as possibly my dad. The point being it was used whenever you cried, felt sad or showed too much emotion or even acted a little girlish in a way. Also if you're a nerdy guy (not sure if the case for all nerds) you get beaten up. Maybe nerds are frequently awkward or just annoying or something but bullies do what they will. Then there's all the societal expectations. Men have to pay for most of the date, men have to ask women out and not vice versa and so on. I mean sure women probably have more crap to deal with in general but guys have some huge things they had to do like the whole 'women and children first' bit on the Titanic where women and children went to safety and the men mostly died. I heard a girl I used to like say that 'it was still commanded by the men' but seriously would you rather be alive or dead? Then there's the deal on lots more men fighting wars (not just men but mostly men most of the time). Being drafted wasn't a choice and you couldn't do a whole lot once you went. I'd pick making guns and ammo over all the problems fighting a war has including the PTSD that comes after if you even make it back.
I also feel like it's true that women killed chivalry but let me explain. It was killed by equality. When things became more equal sacrifices had to be made and lots of nice things guys did for women for no real reason just went with it. In ways that's a good thing.
So I dunno things aren't always bad. Sometimes men are bad to men, women are bad to women and then they're bad to each other. It's not always about one gender treating the other like crap. Even beyond that in times where women didn't have it so good the guys had a lot more responsibilities with all the powers and freedoms they had (outside of kids and the house). Sometimes life isn't so easy as you could ask spiderman (with great power comes great responsibility). There are positions people have that are very hard and stressful and women get them now too.
So yeah you have to take the good with the bad. Sometimes having more responsibility isn't always fun but it's right. As long as women want everything that comes with equality rather than what helps them only.
Viktor von Domm wrote:I am exactly with that comment...jumping makes the boring a little less boring...
and I often chose a female avatar in WOW ...because... it is nicer to look at a firm female bloodeves bum than at a males one... after more than two years you know what I mean...
Sigvatr wrote:I exclusively play female characters in MMORPGs - if I have to stare at a character's ass for tons of hours, I'd prefer it to be a female ass.
Yup. Also because the female models tend to be smaller, and take up less screen real-estate. (see especially: Draenei and Tauren)
@steamdragon: A bit off topic but we should talk skaven more some time. I'm planning on trying out that triple warlock build again and getting it done correctly. I think I was the one to come up with it and tell Warp solution but for the life of me I can't get it to be effective enough if possible.
flamingkillamajig wrote:Thing is I'm not complaining that a woman is the main character it's just the women are generally the b*dasses in that movie without much exception and guys are usually alien rape bait. Not always but more frequently.
Plural? How many women were there in "Aliens"? Ripley is badass, because protagonist, sure. I suppose you could say Vasquez was badass as well, but that was mostly because she defied the gender stereotype even more blatantly than Ripley, by violently punching it in the face in a display of what is still considered masculine behaviour. Still she didn't actually kick a lot of ass, she just had one of the two biggest guns and caused the most collateral damage when she freaked out and started blowing up the place. I'd argue that Hicks was a lot more professional than her, and badass in his own way in that he actually kept his cool and the ability to make rational decisions.
Then there was the female dropship pilot (Dietrich?), but that one actually was "alien rape bait". And Njewt(sp?) was the Damsel in Distress.
Maybe the movie would have had more female "alien rape bait" if the movie would've had more females to fill in as disposable Redshirts, like most of the male Marines were.
flamingkillamajig wrote:That seems like one of the more men and women working together and cooperating as a team movies that you could get. Women were not damsels in distress except for that one annoying ex-girlfriend but there were guys we hated too so that was ok. I think it was dizzy that was awesome
Yup. The movies cleverly honoured gender-based biological aptitudes by making the majority of men more suitable for the infantry and the majority of women more suitable as pilots, with some overlap presence of both, indicating that everyone got the same chance and it just depended on how well you'd score at their tests.
Also, unisex bathrooms!
flamingkillamajig wrote:Speaking of starship troopers does anybody else feel weird that for such a gay looking guy (neil Patrick harris) which is actually gay in real life they oddly keep throwing him in roles as the manliest man who gets all the ladies?
I ... don't think I've ever heard anyone describe NPH as "gay-looking" before he actually came out. Are you sure this perception is not influenced by his (courageous) revelation?
I don't think he "looks gay" rather than just elegant. Dapper. The same could be said about Tom Cruise or a whole lot of other male actors who fill "pretty boy" roles, but I'd never assume anything about their sexual preferences.
Though if this type of man actually is regarded as "gay-looking" by many people, then to me this says more about the "general male" stereotype than the "gay male" one.
flamingkillamajig wrote:I'm not sure if I can speak for others here but being a guy isn't always super sunshine and rainbows all the time either.
Getting a bit OT, but I'd rather see this discussion here than in Dakka OT, because that's a place I'd never go for a debate.
Current gender roles certainly have disadvantages for men as well. Expectation from one's peers is one (see the "general male" stereotype I mentioned above), and the persistent social perception that "women = weak" leads to a bias in the justice system that violent female offenders get off the hook a lot more often than male ones, simply because courts and law enforcement are more likely to believe they wouldn't be capable of such behaviour. All the more reason for greater equality, I say - ultimately, it's something that both genders can benefit from.
I've played as female characters before, I'd say with maybe a 70/30 split male/female, and I do try to act as I imagine my character would (I love making up backstories) - though I admit, I expect my characters do all have certain shared traits (like an affinity for stealth over tanking)
I think it is very difficult to TRULY roleplay any character who isn't pretty similar to yourself - whether that be because they're a different gender or because they have an ideology you don't share (Like in Fallout NV, I find it very hard to play as a low-INT, melee-based Legion courier, because I don't connect so well with the mindset that character would have)
EmilCrane wrote: I don't play MMOs, but I jumped a lot in Morrowind and Oblivion, but not as much in skyrim. In morrowind it was because I found out that jumping in confined space sometimes triggered a bug where you glided around the room mid jump, very fun.
Both Morrowind and Oblivion had an Acrobatics skill that was leveled by jumping. If you're already locked into spending ten minutes running to your next destination, you might as well level your Athletics, Acrobatics and your spellcaster skills while you do it, right?
EmilCrane wrote: I don't play MMOs, but I jumped a lot in Morrowind and Oblivion, but not as much in skyrim. In morrowind it was because I found out that jumping in confined space sometimes triggered a bug where you glided around the room mid jump, very fun.
Both Morrowind and Oblivion had an Acrobatics skill that was leveled by jumping. If you're already locked into spending ten minutes running to your next destination, you might as well level your Athletics, Acrobatics and your spellcaster skills while you do it, right?
That too, part of the fun in gliding around the blamora mages guild was that you also leveled up as you did it. Acrobatics and athletics as minor skills for meximum leveling.
One of the reasons I don't play female characters in games that let you fully customize characters faces is because I have absolutely no idea how to get female characters looking good. I mean my sister can spend an hour in the Dragon Age character creator to make the perfect female warden, whereas I'm usually "strong jaw line, non-derpy eyes, decent hair, manly scar, good to go" (for a male character, just to clarify)
My user picture on dakka is one of my creepier looking characters.
@Lynata: Have you seen Prometheus yet? There's the main character which is not as cool as ripley but pretty crazy. There's also the cold and seemingly heartless woman on the ship which some think was an android though she was a leader.
To be fair I guess I get your point about there not being a lot of women in the aliens movies but at the same time a woman is always the hero of one. Guys are normally alien face rape bait.
This might also be weird to say but I enjoyed the family ripley seemed to have at the end of aliens. Then at the beginning of the third movie you basically hear that everybody died off screen.
Also as sad as it is I've only seen parts of most aliens movies. Perhaps I should sit down and give them a watch some day.
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Neil Patrick harris looks gay for some reason. Generally a gay person has a certain look in their face and I can kind of tell. Maybe that's a little weird but usually I can tell if somebody's gay by that. Not that it's bad and it's a big jump but I can tell more often these days.
To be fair I seem to be wrong before (my sister's boyfriend who looks gay and sounds gay when he talks) as well as somebody at my work that also sounds like both but seemingly has gotten with plenty of women. Perhaps it's me being unfair? Is that weird if somebody just looks gay or sounds gay (in my perception)? It's not even really anything but the vibes they throw out. Anyway maybe it's nothing.
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Really I was always of the opinion that the movie portrayed genders pretty freaking equally. I mean at the end of the day you still have genders preferring different things just like how you see a lot of women in more social work (like a whole crap ton more). There was also at least 2 bad *ss women in the unit and one that died early which wanted to have babies or something (that's pretty much all she said). Dizzy also pulled a pretty crazy stunt throwing a hand grenade straight into the mouth of a large fire-breathing alien and killing it instantly. Course that wouldn't save her an alien which clearly came out of nowhere and killed her. Just watch the scene before she dies and you'll see that the alien that killed her would've had to cover a ridiculous amount of distance to kill her. It's kind of dumb really. R.I.P. dizzy you were a better woman in that movie than the guy's on again off again girlfriend by a mile.
I felt the shower scene was awesome in a non-nudity sort of way. It was like elements of a girl's shower and a guy's shower without all the weird sexual flirtation you'd expect. It was almost nice to see. It's as if they managed an equality we could never dream of having in a lot of ways that seemed really good. It was very strange but welcoming somehow. It was an eerie scene. Also nudity .
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Omg yes lynata it still p*sses me off that people find women incapable of raping or raping men at least. Some alcohol, a date rape drug, lots of sleeping pills or a variety of ways can all do it. I've even heard guys say they enjoyed being raped by women (like a woman comes into their room while they sleep and just has sex with them while unconscious). Sure guys often do like sex but if a woman is not good looking or they just didn't like them then it can be as much rape as it would be for a woman to have it. I looked at an article about men getting raped just the other day and all I saw in it disgusted me by how little people care or help. It's wrong and something must be done to fix it even if nothing is changing.
EmilCrane wrote: One of the reasons I don't play female characters in games that let you fully customize characters faces is because I have absolutely no idea how to get female characters looking good. I mean my sister can spend an hour in the Dragon Age character creator to make the perfect female warden, whereas I'm usually "strong jaw line, non-derpy eyes, decent hair, manly scar, good to go" (for a male character, just to clarify)
My user picture on dakka is one of my creepier looking characters.
I will gladly spend an hour or more creating my characters' faces - male or female. Between my preferred look for the character I have in mind, and the customisation levels afforded by the more top-end RPGs and their various customisation mods, I can spend more time perfecting a few slider positions on the face creation screen than I can spend doing the opening quests.
Then, of course, you accidentally knock a certain slider that sends all the others out of whack, or you accidentally slide across the presets as you navigate to confirm your character's looks and manage to undo everything, and when you get in-game you spot that one angle that makes everything look terrible and it nags at you.
For games, I find myself playing females a lot more than males and I'm not sure why, especially since I prefer to write female characters over male ones. That isn't just to satisfy my own sexual desires and my strange lust for throwing unjustifiable lesbianism every which way, but I just feel more comfortable playing and writing females - and contrary to the start of this sentence, sexualisation of the characters and/or their preferences doesn't really come into it.
I have 8 characters in GW2, and only one is female. I've never put much thought into why. I'm a guy so picking guys as my characters just seems natural.
I've never attempted to pass as a female over the internet, even when playing my female necro, but I am often surprised how regularly people just assume that because my character is female I must be too. That many men play female characters isn't news so I'd think people wouldn't jump to that conclusion.
The harsh insults sometimes sent my way though when I correct people who assume I'm a girl can be more baffling, as if they think that just by playing a female character I'm attempt to trick them for some nefarious purpose.
Every time I bring a new female character into Stormwind (Glory to the Alliance) the same guy would whisper me being all nice before starting to ask if I was a busty young lass. Whenever I corrected him he would stop responding time to me. Once I actually went along with it and I got a sense that this man was either 13 or needed to get laid.
LordofHats wrote:I have 8 characters in GW2, and only one is female. I've never put much thought into why. I'm a guy so picking guys as my characters just seems natural.
I've never attempted to pass as a female over the internet, even when playing my female necro, but I am often surprised how regularly people just assume that because my character is female I must be too. That many men play female characters isn't news so I'd think people wouldn't jump to that conclusion.
The harsh insults sometimes sent my way though when I correct people who assume I'm a girl can be more baffling, as if they think that just by playing a female character I'm attempt to trick them for some nefarious purpose.
TheCustomLime wrote:Every time I bring a new female character into Stormwind (Glory to the Alliance) the same guy would whisper me being all nice before starting to ask if I was a busty young lass. Whenever I corrected him he would stop responding time to me. Once I actually went along with it and I got a sense that this man was either 13 or needed to get laid.
I also get a lot of proposals for cybering.
I've never experienced any of this; the people I meet on my female chars don't really seem to care enough to assume I'm female and bitch about it when I say I'm not, or to proposition me for certain cyberservices.
It must be something to do with the differences between US and European game servers; I rarely - if ever - experience any of the issues like these that American players tend to have.
To be fair, I was playing as a female Draenei on the Moonguard roleplaying server. Let us just say that there are many followers of Slaanesh there if you don't know what it is.
I've certainly never been propositioned I get referred to as 'she' on that character all the time, which I mostly ignore cause really getting upitty about that is petty.
The one time I remember was when some weirdo asked me if I was a lesbian (mature content followed), too which I replied all men are lesbians (), and he then proceeded to flame me for about five minutes asking when I was going to get my sex change operation. A very bizarre experience.
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TheCustomLime wrote: To be fair, I was playing as a female Draenei on the Moonguard roleplaying server.
Not to mention that the Draenei, female ones in particular, are hit with Rule 34 so much. So. Much.
So I have noticed. It's not unwarranted, though. They're fricking hot.
The odd thing is I always expected my charie to be hit on during roleplay but either everyone just ignored her or just assumed she was a lesbian. The propositions were directed to me. I wonder why.
Some funny things I remember about playing females in MMOs. Female Tauren in WoW not being able to get into Molten Core dungeon through the "secret" entrance because their model was too big. And Age of Conan female Heralds of Xolti (i think?) did less DPS than their male counterparts because the animations for their attacks were slightly longer.
Sigvatr wrote: I exclusively play female characters in MMORPGs - if I have to stare at a character's ass for tons of hours, I'd prefer it to be a female ass.
Groan.
Dark Apostle 666 wrote: I've played as female characters before, I'd say with maybe a 70/30 split male/female, and I do try to act as I imagine my character would (I love making up backstories) - though I admit, I expect my characters do all have certain shared traits (like an affinity for stealth over tanking)
I think it is very difficult to TRULY roleplay any character who isn't pretty similar to yourself - whether that be because they're a different gender or because they have an ideology you don't share (Like in Fallout NV, I find it very hard to play as a low-INT, melee-based Legion courier, because I don't connect so well with the mindset that character would have)
I find it difficult to roleplay as unreasonable. I roleplay evil and good-ish (I actually have difficulty RPing goody-two-shoes characters) peeps but they are all rather logical in their actions.
TheCustomLime wrote:So I have noticed. It's not unwarranted, though. They're fricking hot.
The odd thing is I always expected my charie to be hit on during roleplay but either everyone just ignored her or just assumed she was a lesbian. The propositions were directed to me. I wonder why.
Groan.
TheCustomLime wrote:Every time I bring a new female character into Stormwind (Glory to the Alliance) the same guy would whisper me being all nice before starting to ask if I was a busty young lass. Whenever I corrected him he would stop responding time to me. Once I actually went along with it and I got a sense that this man was either 13 or needed to get laid.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, it's not usually that hard to tell when someone's... "passing", I think the term would be.
I've seen some good drag kings/queens, but the average person on an MMO ain't.
This raises an interesting question. How many people are actually selecting their avatar on the assumption that people will think they're that gender.
A lot. It's a smart thing to play as the opposite gender in MMOs as men are more likely to trade or gift items to or positively interact (group invites for example) with female characters.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, it's not usually that hard to tell when someone's... "passing", I think the term would be.
I've seen some good drag kings/queens, but the average person on an MMO ain't.
This raises an interesting question. How many people are actually selecting their avatar on the assumption that people will think they're that gender.
A lot. It's a smart thing to play as the opposite gender in MMOs as men are more likely to trade or gift items to or positively interact (group invites for example) with female characters.
That is surprising to me. As I said on the last page about my only experience with MMO games is one where your avatar is 100% irrelevant except a tiny postage stamp sized picture next to your posts in chat (not even that if you turn the chat size down to save space).
Unless proven otherwise I always kind of assume that everybody I meet online is a disembodied brain in a vat or else some kind of AI. It really makes life much simpler.
I don't pretend to be female in video games, but when I'm having a laugh and pretending to be a girl in a chat room or something, I think I emulate them well. I noticed that women tend to hesitate longer between responses and use more emoticons years ago, so I do this, and my ruses have proven to be effective. They also tend to be less direct and vulgar online than they are in person, whereas men don't care. Pretending to be a girl online isn't that hard if you talk to a lot of girls IRL and text/instant message them often, but I don't imagine WoW players have much practice in that area, lol.
I have thirty two characters in WoW.... one is male. I also jump more than I probably should when leveling.. but that's partially as I am used to jump over terrain.. also I played Oblivion and Morrowind, and learnt its benefits there.
I also do limited RPG on WoW... might end up being a bit more in the future if Aura can get me involved more.. and I can roleplay quite convincingly when I need to. Based on observations by other female players, not so much my own viewpoint, although some who know me would suggest that's not a great surprise.
Sigvatr wrote: A lot. It's a smart thing to play as the opposite gender in MMOs as men are more likely to trade or gift items to or positively interact (group invites for example) with female characters.
Actually, playing as a guy in an MMO is better, because you're less likely to be harassed, making the game more pleasant.
Thankfully it's not as common on GW2 as on other MMOs. Still remember the various "Harem" clans that tried to invite me in in other games...
I think RPG servers.. if you stay out of one or two areas.. tend to feel different in that regard... a lot more female players and female avatars to boot overall.
Melissia wrote: Actually, playing as a guy in an MMO is better, because you're less likely to be harassed, making the game more pleasant.
Sadly, it does not make up for the oversized pauldrons.
Says you. I play MMOs for the gameplay, not to have some little gak with the voice of a ten year old ask "r you grl" repeatedly, and "offer" to cyber with me.
I jump constantly when I'm playing MMOs. Dunno why.
Also, if so many people spend their time staring at their character's ass rather than what's going on, this may explain why I feel like I'm constantly surrounded by people who have no idea what's going on whenever I manage to get some MMO group playtime in.
Sigvatr wrote: A lot. It's a smart thing to play as the opposite gender in MMOs as men are more likely to trade or gift items to or positively interact (group invites for example) with female characters.
Actually, playing as a guy in an MMO is better, because you're less likely to be harassed, making the game more pleasant.
Thankfully it's not as common on GW2 as on other MMOs. Still remember the various "Harem" clans that tried to invite me in in other games...
I have never experienced anything like this in years of online gaming, including 3 years of WoW.
Melissia wrote: Actually, playing as a guy in an MMO is better, because you're less likely to be harassed, making the game more pleasant.
Sadly, it does not make up for the oversized pauldrons.
Says you. I play MMOs for the gameplay, not to have some little gak with the voice of a ten year old ask "r you grl" repeatedly, and "offer" to cyber with me.
I used to play the female avatar in the old BBC Micro game Citadel (1985) because when she jumped her pigtails flew out and the male character didn't have a cool move like that.
I'm a PC gamer more than tabletop gamer, that includes MMOs... heavily ; p I play a 50/50 split roughly between male and female chars. I don't play them any differently that I can tell and don't roleplay at all. Part of the discrepancy in how players act could be due to the roles chosen for those characters - my tank chars are usually male which tends to necessitate more decision making, female chars tend to be healers so tend to bitch about people standing in fire ; p The reason is to get a more diverse selection of characters to keep me interested... and if I have to look at a behind for hours on end... ; p
re. jumping I do it a lot. In WoW I do it to try to get flips out of my Night Elves and Blood Elves when I'm idling for some reason, don't do it for the other races anywhere near as much. In GW2 I do it to try and time a dodge jump so I roll in the air which requires precise timing. Also in general jumping is a way to get around quicker by more smoothly bypassing obstacles. I always beat ladies in our guild to places so it must work ; p
Ashiraya wrote: I play WoW a lot. Interestingly, as a female myself, I have 3 female characters and 8 male ones on my main account, and one of each on my secondary.
Why? I am not sure. Male models are often better I think. My main character is female, though.
Sigvatr wrote: I exclusively play female characters in MMORPGs - if I have to stare at a character's ass for tons of hours, I'd prefer it to be a female ass.
Groan.
Dark Apostle 666 wrote: I've played as female characters before, I'd say with maybe a 70/30 split male/female, and I do try to act as I imagine my character would (I love making up backstories) - though I admit, I expect my characters do all have certain shared traits (like an affinity for stealth over tanking)
I think it is very difficult to TRULY roleplay any character who isn't pretty similar to yourself - whether that be because they're a different gender or because they have an ideology you don't share (Like in Fallout NV, I find it very hard to play as a low-INT, melee-based Legion courier, because I don't connect so well with the mindset that character would have)
I find it difficult to roleplay as unreasonable. I roleplay evil and good-ish (I actually have difficulty RPing goody-two-shoes characters) peeps but they are all rather logical in their actions.
TheCustomLime wrote:So I have noticed. It's not unwarranted, though. They're fricking hot.
The odd thing is I always expected my charie to be hit on during roleplay but either everyone just ignored her or just assumed she was a lesbian. The propositions were directed to me. I wonder why.
Groan.
TheCustomLime wrote:Every time I bring a new female character into Stormwind (Glory to the Alliance) the same guy would whisper me being all nice before starting to ask if I was a busty young lass. Whenever I corrected him he would stop responding time to me. Once I actually went along with it and I got a sense that this man was either 13 or needed to get laid.
I also get a lot of proposals for cybering.
Groan.
Yep. Playing on Moonguard was buckets of fun. Try it some time and discover sexual fetishes you never knew existed. Or did but secretly hoped wasn't a "thing".
If we are going to talk about characters I generally had a 60/40 m/f ratio.I never had an actual main but the Draenei in question was a sadistic sniper who finds it amusing to blow people's heads off. Pleasant enough to be around with if you were Alliance, though.
You know, I wonder if there is a study into how male gamers tend to dress female characters and vice versa. Probably not a large enough sample size to make a good study since most gamers do not (I believe) care about such things but it'd be interesting to know.
First they really chose the wrong MMO to do this with. They really should have picked Lineage 2 where the characters are much better looking. Lineage 2 didnt have guys playing as girls jumping around, they were using emotes and bending over ALL THE DAMNED TIME.
Typically i play as a dwarf so i constantly jump to get myself into interesting places.
Melissia wrote: Actually, playing as a guy in an MMO is better, because you're less likely to be harassed, making the game more pleasant.
How do they know you are a women?
On the only MMO I ever played for more than one or two hours, I have played a female character, and basically… I never spoke to anyone and nobody ever spoke to me . Almost. Also, my character was far from the more alluring one, in a game that allows for both ridiculously sexual outfits and very sober ones.
Spoiler:
In this game, jumping is actually doing something, the movements control are quite different from your usual WoW. But in Smite (MOBA with controls a bit similar to WoW) I do jump a lot at the beginning when I have nothing better to do. I never play female character in that game though, because, well, they are all horrible, horrible fanservice. Except maybe for Artemis.
I play several MMORPGs and a few console RPGs and I tend to favor female avatars over male. I have ever since my first MMORPG, Phantasy Star Online. My first avatar looked lie Harley Quinn because you could do that with one of the Elf Mages and Harley Quinn was awesome. Since then, I default to female avatars more often than not. If I had to give a thoughtful reason, I would say it is because it allows me a certain level of disconnect from the actions of my character. If I was playing a male character, I would feel a little uncomfortable choosing "evil" options because I would identify with the character a lil' too much. It's the reason I really don't like playing my Dark Side Sith Juggy on SWTOR that much. I only went male for the romance options (because Vette is HIGH-larious in dialogue) and now the character kinda sits around and does nothing because I prefer to play evil on a female character.
Conversely, I can play good as male or female (my Pub side Trooper is male and LS... and has glorious mutton chops) though I still tend to favor female avatars over male even when playing a goody-two-shoes.
As an aside, I was mistaken for a girl when I was on FFXI a few years back. I wasn't consciously trying to "pass" as a woman; people just assumed that I was. When I asked a guildmate why that was, I was told "Because you use correct grammar and punctuation and you bitch about the Red Mage Artifact pants looking like booty shorts with garters".
Speaking of which... hey all you male gamers that crossplay online... what kind of fashions do you tend to put your female avatars in? Do you go for scanty, revealing, "sexy" outfits, or do you go with practical outfits, or do you go with a "style" for a character?
Me, I tend to only use scanty outfits on my console RPG characters (the ones nobody will see because the game is not onilne). My MMORPG avatars tend to dress stylishly, but reasonably. The only exception would be my SWTOR Bounty hunter, who wears the dancer's bottoms instead of pants because I haven't found a pair of heavy armor pants I like the look of, and my DS Sith Marauder who shows a lot of underboob, because that character is a cavalcade of bad asthetic choices.
Anyway. One thing I don't actually get is when people say they pick their character bases on what butt they want to look at. That really feels like too minor of a thing to base the choice on. Also shouldn't you be looking at what your doing?
nomotog wrote: Anyway. One thing I don't actually get is when people say they pick their character bases on what butt they want to look at. That really feels like too minor of a thing to base the choice on. Also shouldn't you be looking at what your doing?
I think what they're trying to say when they say things like that is "have I mentioned that I am heterosexual today?".
Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean that it doens't happen. And it's not just my personal anecdotes, either-- there have been numerous scientific studies that have actually shown that women get harassed and propositioned many, MANY times more than men do on the internet.
Those are mostly limited to voice chat - and I already covered the teenage problem.
To be fair, he's a mesmer. I think pink and purple are like the theme colors of mesmers to begin with? They're fabulous people, both the men and the women mesmers!
Melissia wrote: Many MMOs include voice chat, or make heavy use of third party programs for it.
I have always wondered if people would harass me if I played with voice chat. I may be a man, but really almost every stranger that talk to me on the phone believes me to be a woman. It will be an interesting thing to try if I ever manage to debug my sound card drivers .
Melissia wrote: Many MMOs include voice chat, or make heavy use of third party programs for it.
I have always wondered if people would harass me if I played with voice chat. I may be a man, but really almost every stranger that talk to me on the phone believes me to be a woman. It will be an interesting thing to try if I ever manage to debug my sound card drivers .
You'd probably get a lot of jokes about your outrageous french accent (that I presume you have)
Or at least that's how I read all of your posts...
TheCustomLime wrote: All fully armored all of the time. Revealing armor defeats the entire purpose of putting armor on.
My male mesmer is pretty scantily clad And pink Serves the purpose of making him more BA when he runs around WvWvW screaming "Fabulous!"
I'm too sexy for my shirt, too sexy for my shirt so sexy it hurts.
I do agree with the opinion that the whole "I pick females to stare at a nice ass" answer is just an excuse. It's not like you were staring at the man's ass for hours on end when you were using male characters.
nomotog wrote: Anyway. One thing I don't actually get is when people say they pick their character bases on what butt they want to look at. That really feels like too minor of a thing to base the choice on. Also shouldn't you be looking at what your doing?
I think what they're trying to say when they say things like that is "have I mentioned that I am heterosexual today?".
Oh. That would actually explain it. It still manages to be rather silly though.
TheCustomLime wrote: All fully armored all of the time. Revealing armor defeats the entire purpose of putting armor on.
My male mesmer is pretty scantily clad And pink Serves the purpose of making him more BA when he runs around WvWvW screaming "Fabulous!"
I'm too sexy for my shirt, too sexy for my shirt so sexy it hurts.
I do agree with the opinion that the whole "I pick females to stare at a nice ass" answer is just an excuse. It's not like you were staring at the man's ass for hours on end when you were using male characters.
Your not that sexy. Put your shirt back on! I use to dress some of my avatars up sexy like, but that ends up getting old faster then you think and you want to branch out into more verity. Too bad mmos never allow enough verity.
TheCustomLime wrote: It's not like you were staring at the man's ass for hours on end when you were using male characters.
Yes, that is so totally not what I was doing.
Anyway, I'm fairly evenly split on male/female avatars. I'm an altoholic, so I usually create a bunch of different characters at the start and play each for awhile until I settle on the one or two I like the most.
I will admit that it is hard for me to create unique male avatars. As a man, I know what I like when it comes to looking at women, so it's very easy for me to make a variety of female characters that look good (to me). My male characters all tend to look somewhat the same. Who knows, maybe it's just a repressed desire to play dress-up with dolls?
With the exceptions of factions that are male-only (which to this date consists exclusively of Orks in Warhammer Online, none of the other ones really interested me) I have exclusively female characters.
I feel more in tune with my character when I hear a feminine voice associated with them, and that makes the game more enjoyable to me.
Melissia wrote: With the exceptions of factions that are male-only (which to this date consists exclusively of Orks in Warhammer Online, none of the other ones really interested me) I have exclusively female characters.
I feel more in tune with my character when I hear a feminine voice associated with them, and that makes the game more enjoyable to me.
..... You know. You have always came off rather mannish to me, so hearing that you like to play female characters kind of surprises me. I have always been horrible at guessing gender though.
Melissia wrote: To be fair, he's a mesmer. I think pink and purple are like the theme colors of mesmers to begin with? They're fabulous people, both the men and the women mesmers!
IDK. Eventually my thief will have his legendary short bow and I'll need to rainbow paint him so he can run people down screaming "Taste the Rainbow"
flamingkillamajig wrote:@Lynata: Have you seen Prometheus yet? There's the main character which is not as cool as ripley but pretty crazy. There's also the cold and seemingly heartless woman on the ship which some think was an android though she was a leader.
To be fair I guess I get your point about there not being a lot of women in the aliens movies but at the same time a woman is always the hero of one. Guys are normally alien face rape bait.
Nope @ Prometheus. Missed it in cinema, currently waiting to catch it on Netflix.
Anyways, a woman as the main protagonist is kind of "the thing" of the Aliens franchise and part what still makes them special compared to most of sci-fi, though it's not actually that special if you consider that it's the very same hero in every movie except for the prequel. In a way, Aliens = Ripley, just like the first Star Trek movies always had Kirk as the captain, even though Trek as a franchise is larger than the Enterprise, too. Perhaps it just seems more out of the ordinary because the white male hero is still seen as the default for such movies?
... it's subtle, innit?
Sigvatr wrote:I have never experienced anything like this in years of online gaming, including 3 years of WoW.
It may depend on the server. As a German WoW veteran, I'm sure you know the reputation of Die Aldor's Goldshire.
Hell, it may be different on a per-game basis, too. Wasn't there some study about scientists using pre-recorded voice comms on Halo multiplayer and checking how other players would react to a male and female voice? The results were a bit .. disappointing, but sadly not unexpected.
Though I heard the Halo crowd is (supposedly) especially weird.
LordofHats wrote:All hail the great Erin Stout
Indeed. I just found that comic last week and spent a couple days catching up. Had a great time.
squidhills wrote:Speaking of which... hey all you male gamers that crossplay online... what kind of fashions do you tend to put your female avatars in? Do you go for scanty, revealing, "sexy" outfits, or do you go with practical outfits, or do you go with a "style" for a character?
Depends on the game and the character. Mostly I'm aiming for "practical", though I have to admit that I don't dismiss sexiness entirely. Let's just say there are characters from culture where it can fit or is even to be expected (e.g. drow, night elves, yautja, orions), and other characters where it'd just look out of place (e.g. the average human soldier). Many settings allow you to go for what I'd consider an attractive look without actually damaging the character's appearance-based perception as a professional rather than just obvious eye-candy if you just have a bit of imagination and like to work with whatever options for customisation are available.
Seriously, when I see how some people dress their female toons, the nerd in me cringes at the lack of respect for background and immersion. That being said, I have a feeling we all have our own threshold where we draw that line between "hot" and "too much".
Melissia wrote:I think what they're trying to say when they say things like that is "have I mentioned that I am heterosexual today?".
@Lynata: I suppose 'Aliens' is mostly ripley and the prequel is sort of a ripley wanna-be (well she's different but in my eyes she is).
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My advice with what you and sigvatr are talking about is go and play different games. Most shooters seem to have a really stupid crowd overall without a better word to phrase it. Rts's generally don't seem to have many women at all to my knowledge. Rpg's have the most women though I suppose how scantily clad the females are tends to show what crowd tends to be drawn to the games. The gamers tend to reflect the game being played. Chances are if the game is smart and well thought out you'd get players that are much smarter though possibly smug. If you play games like halo expect the average gamer crowd which tends to shoot instead of think. I'm also rather not fond of really competitive games as they tend to be the worst.
So I dunno maybe girls get it bad in games but it's still my opinion that if somebody treats a woman badly or a different race badly then the person is probably a jerk all around. For me it's hard to imagine somebody being a jerk to only one group and being nice to all the others.
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Erin Stout? I'm not aware of him though my british friend shows me a crap ton of different comics and great ones at that. The one I really should catch up on is 'Dumbing of Age' by David Willis (I think that's his name).
So you're saying drow, night elves, yautja, and orions are all sluts? That's offensive .
If I remember you play cyber punk which basically has a whole theme on bondage leather. Basically skin tight leather for everybody . It also has a prevalence for hookers considering some of the themes around crime, poverty and corruption.
As for lines drawn for me it's too much when they're in underwear. I won't lie that I'm attracted to it though. Ridiculously large boobs at a point become too ridiculous when you see some really stupid ecchi (or 'high school of the dead'). I honestly don't get why women love anime so much. I don't think I've ever seen a medium of entertainment so offensive towards women on the sexual level to a point it makes me look good and that's a god d*mn achievement right there but not a good one.
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Ugh I can't stand anything melissia says for the most parts these days. She's borderline man-hating and a femi-Nazi in my eyes. She's pretty hateful in general.
Sorry if you disagree lynata it's just I'd rather not listen to anything she says.
The only MMOs where I really play any female alts are superhero MMOs, because those are really the only ones where I come up with a character concept before I make the character.
EmilCrane wrote: You'd probably get a lot of jokes about your outrageous french accent (that I presume you have)
Or at least that's how I read all of your posts...
Yeah, most French people do have a strong accent, and I am not exception. I would like to do some post-doc in an English-speaking country to improve it.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Ugh I can't stand anything melissia says for the most parts these days. She's borderline man-hating and a femi-Nazi in my eyes. She's pretty hateful in general.
What the hell are you talking about? It was a joke, not to be taken seriously, right?
Melissia wrote: With the exceptions of factions that are male-only (which to this date consists exclusively of Orks in Warhammer Online, none of the other ones really interested me) I have exclusively female characters.
I feel more in tune with my character when I hear a feminine voice associated with them, and that makes the game more enjoyable to me.
The voice thing is interesting... I have turned off player character voices in WoW because the female Blood Elf voice is so incredibly 'look at me so little girl kawaiiiiiii xDDDDDDD'
Which annoys me to no end, I might add. I think it's more the same mindset that makes me play a female.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Ugh I can't stand anything melissia says for the most parts these days. She's borderline man-hating and a femi-Nazi in my eyes. She's pretty hateful in general. .
What.
I knew Melissia hates Space Marines (Which I disagree with, rawr!) but hating men is something I have seen little indication of.
As my primary MMO is MechWarrior Online I don't really wee this much. Its walk up, blam blam, take cover, etc.
Mechs don't jump, unless they have JumpJets which are, frankly, awesome.
But yeah, I don't see how the results mean anything.
Melissia wrote: With the exceptions of factions that are male-only (which to this date consists exclusively of Orks in Warhammer Online, none of the other ones really interested me) I have exclusively female characters.
Melissia wrote: With the exceptions of factions that are male-only (which to this date consists exclusively of Orks in Warhammer Online, none of the other ones really interested me) I have exclusively female characters.
LOTRO dwarves have no female option.
Wut.
Ah well, happens in more MMO's. Like in WOW, where there are no male Blood Elves, and no female Dwarves, either.
Melissia wrote: With the exceptions of factions that are male-only (which to this date consists exclusively of Orks in Warhammer Online, none of the other ones really interested me) I have exclusively female characters.
LOTRO dwarves have no female option.
Wut.
Ah well, happens in more MMO's. Like in WOW, where there are no male Blood Elves, and no female Dwarves, either.
Yes, because 'not being built like a hulk' means 'not a man'.
Male Blood Elves are built like athletes, not like bodybuilders. They are still male.
The whole 'belf men are gurls lel xd' jokes got old in 2007 if not earlier.
Melissia wrote: With the exceptions of factions that are male-only (which to this date consists exclusively of Orks in Warhammer Online, none of the other ones really interested me) I have exclusively female characters.
LOTRO dwarves have no female option.
Wut.
Ah well, happens in more MMO's. Like in WOW, where there are no male Blood Elves, and no female Dwarves, either.
Yes, because 'not being built like a hulk' means 'not a man'.
Male Blood Elves are built like athletes, not like bodybuilders. They are still male.
The whole 'belf men are gurls lel xd' jokes got old in 2007 if not earlier.
Nah, it's just that they can only have this really, really long hair.
I want my Belf males to look like those from Warcraft 3, dangit!
Ashiraya wrote: The voice thing is interesting... I have turned off player character voices in WoW because the female Blood Elf voice is so incredibly 'look at me so little girl kawaiiiiiii xDDDDDDD'
Which annoys me to no end, I might add. I think it's more the same mindset that makes me play a female.
To be fair, this is Wow you're talking about. I don't think there's any part of WoW that's not incredibly annoying.
Ashiraya wrote: I knew Melissia hates Space Marines (Which I disagree with, rawr!) but hating men is something I have seen little indication of
Keep in mind, this particular accusation that I hate men comes from a guy whom has been banned in the past from IGMB for stalking multiple women. So I don't really feel any need to respond to that
As for Space Marines, well yeah. They're not Guard, Orks, or Sisters, so they're not what makes 40k awesome for me But hate is too strong a word. It's more "bored" than "hate". Now, Chaos Space Marines... that I actively dislike.
Melissia wrote: Keep in mind, this particular accusation that I hate men comes from a guy whom has been banned in the past from IGMB for stalking multiple women. So I don't really feel any need to respond to that
Pff, Chaos Space Marines? Sisters of Battle? Space Marines? All a bunch of amateurs playing dress up. No, the real army is the Astra Militarum! We don't need no fancy armor, special powers or genetic enhancements. All we need is a bigger gun and we got lots of them.
To get back on topic why do you suppose it matters what gender people pick for their characters so much? It seems like a trivial choice, to be honest.
Melissia wrote: Keep in mind, this particular accusation that I hate men comes from a guy whom has been banned in the past from IGMB for stalking multiple women. So I don't really feel any need to respond to that
Just bear in mind that discussing what has or has not happened to certain users here on other boards is frowned upon, and I'm talking a really low-brow frown.
Avatar 720 wrote: Just bear in mind that discussing what has or has not happened to certain users here on other boards is frowned upon, and I'm talking a really low-brow frown.
Meh, whatever. I don't feel the need to take a guy who has stalked me in the past seriously.
Avatar 720 wrote: Just bear in mind that discussing what has or has not happened to certain users here on other boards is frowned upon, and I'm talking a really low-brow frown.
Meh, whatever. I don't feel the need to take a guy who has stalked me in the past seriously.
It was mainly to try and dissuade anyone from publicly following it up; nothing against your reasons.
As aside, does this mean you don't take me seriously?
LordofHats wrote: It's not the LOTRO has no dwarf women. It's just that the women are so indistinguishable from the men that people think there are no dwarf women
Dwarven mating must go sort of like this then (spoilered for length & a little NSFW for language):
Melissia wrote: With the exceptions of factions that are male-only (which to this date consists exclusively of Orks in Warhammer Online, none of the other ones really interested me) I have exclusively female characters.
LOTRO dwarves have no female option.
Galka (the "big guy" race) in Final Fantasy XI are exclusively male within the setting. There's been some Word of God discussion of how reproduction works for them, but I don't remember the details. Mithras, the cat person race in the game, only have female avatars. Mithra males exist within the setting, but are generally kept out of sight (they're few in number, and stay back at the as yet unseen mithra homeland). The only male mithra seen to date was introduced in an expansion several years after the game was released.
Final Fantasy XIV released with race options that were limited to male or female avatars. Roegadyn (both types - the "big guy" race for FFXIV) and Highland Hyur ("humans" - the restriction didn't apply to Midlander Hyur) only had male avatars for players. And both types of Mi'quote (the new cat person race) were limited to female avatars. But unlike the Galka in FFXI, this wasn't a setting restriction, and there was even a female Roegadyn NPC (the political leader of one of the starting cities). However, when the game was rereleased, the gender restrictions were dropped for all races. And there are now plenty of NPCs of both genders for the formerly restricted races.
Ashiraya wrote: I knew Melissia hates Space Marines (Which I disagree with, rawr!) but hating men is something I have seen little indication of
Keep in mind, this particular accusation that I hate men comes from a guy whom has been banned in the past from IGMB for stalking multiple women. So I don't really feel any need to respond to that
If any woman ever feels the need to not talk to me then all they have to do is tell me they don't want to talk. Same with if they don't like me and no longer wish to talk. It's fairly simple.
Keep in mind melissia has been banned off multiple forums for getting into fights often by always being aggressive. Also you don't know those situations so you should quit acting like you do know them. That ban was because I had a hatred against a mod that decided to be a God Mod and take power to his head. This was something that bothered the other mod and a bunch of other people (trooper, orren, reds and lupus). I generally also was fairly offensive and made such jokes which I have tried to clamp down on somewhat depending on where I am. If I was so bad nobody would've wanted me back but that didn't happen. I didn't feel the need to argue it because I was so done with that forum after a while that it wasn't worth the time and my mood slowly improved being away from it.
As for stalking the women I 'stalked' normally I'd been talking to for a while and threw out indications that maybe they'd be interested. It was mostly just one in particular but she had a boyfriend and was just way out of my league. She should have told me if she didn't want to talk and didn't like me anymore but she didn't. I talked to her for over a year and it still bothers me since I really enjoyed talking to her and she threw out some hints that she was interested too (or at least originally). As for why I would go to the internet for women when you've moved 5 or more times in your life and you're used to losing everybody in your real life friend circle from those moves you tend not to care anymore about making friends in the real world as much. I'll probably move again and lose all the friends I have now in real life. So generally if I talk to a woman and she's not interested I give her space with some exceptions.
Also melissia keep dreaming. There are nicer girls than you around and you've been hateful and angry wherever I see it. I felt pity on your blogs and so responded to them. You tell me to go screw myself so I decide who needs you. Now nobody responds to any of your blogs. Perhaps you'd know I'm different in one on one conversations than in group conversations but I'd doubt it. So yeah I did actually pity you.
Anyway I'd just rather not talk about melissia. I'm just tired of her always posting something in these gender threads and getting angry about how unfair things are that she's a woman and not a man.
----------
I think i'll give this all a rest. The mods will probably get angry if things continue. So I'm done for now. What happened on that board happened several years ago. I suppose somebody just had to dredge it up.
XI was good back in the day. It's still around and doing well enough to keep going, but it's showing its age. And some of the decisions made over the years have affected it badly.
XIV is extremely popular right now, and is doing very well. The 1.0 version of the game was a huge debacle for Square-Enix, though.
The gender restrictions for certain races were made for obvious reasons. The Galka and Roegadyn were both "big guy" races. The females would have been "big gals", obviously, and it appears that Squenix wasn't interested in that. Ergo, no female option. Highlander Hyurs, while human, were given a more rough and tough masculine description than the Midlanders. So they sort of fell into the same territory as the Roegadyn. Mithra and Mi'quote were designed as cute cat girls - with all that entails (including being the designated flirts of their respective games). And their outfits tend to play up the sex appeal angle. Ergo playable ladies only.
If a Western company had made the games, then I suspect that there would have been no gender restrictions. But it wasn't a Western company.
flamingkillamajig wrote:So you're saying drow, night elves, yautja, and orions are all sluts? That's offensive .
Well, yes and no. Yautja and night elves are just pseudo-feral. They don't dress the way they do to provoke, but simply because it's practical, so it may only seem slutty if you apply contemporary western world morals to their appearance.
Drow and orion, on the other hand, pride their appearance and oftentimes showcase their bodies in an effort to either enchant others or simply to parade their physical perfection as a matter of pride.
tl;dr: It just looks the same, but the reasons are worlds apart - and that is an important thing to keep in mind, especially when roleplaying them.
flamingkillamajig wrote:If I remember you play cyber punk which basically has a whole theme on bondage leather. Basically skin tight leather for everybody
Well ... to a certain degree I suppose you're right. I never actually gave the possible reasons much thought (I "simply enjoyed the ride"), but on a hunch I'd say it's an act of rebellion - like dying one's hair in outrageous colours, or getting a mohican. Perhaps also provocation, though more in an act of personal empowerment rather than to appeal to someone else?
TheCustomLime wrote:Pff, Chaos Space Marines? Sisters of Battle? Space Marines? All a bunch of amateurs playing dress up. No, the real army is the Astra Militarum! We don't need no fancy armor, special powers or genetic enhancements. All we need is a bigger gun and we got lots of them.
/salute
Eumerin wrote:The gender restrictions for certain races were made for obvious reasons. The Galka and Roegadyn were both "big guy" races. The females would have been "big gals", obviously, and it appears that Squenix wasn't interested in that. Ergo, no female option. Highlander Hyurs, while human, were given a more rough and tough masculine description than the Midlanders. So they sort of fell into the same territory as the Roegadyn. Mithra and Mi'quote were designed as cute cat girls - with all that entails (including being the designated flirts of their respective games). And their outfits tend to play up the sex appeal angle. Ergo playable ladies only.
Such deliberately sexist things infuriate me just as much as when a game drops restrictions that are an integral part of a culture's background. Male night elf Sentinels still give me the nerdrage, and I don't even play that game anymore. It's sad when sometimes you have games/settings that were set up in a relatively mature way get dumbed down to appeal to a different/widened target demographic, leading to considerable changes in the artistic vision.
Anyways, we all know female dwarves look like this.
flamingkillamajig wrote:So you're saying drow, night elves, yautja, and orions are all sluts? That's offensive .
Well, yes and no. Yautja and night elves are just pseudo-feral. They don't dress the way they do to provoke, but simply because it's practical, so it may only seem slutty if you apply contemporary western world morals to their appearance.
Drow and orion, on the other hand, pride their appearance and oftentimes showcase their bodies in an effort to either enchant others or simply to parade their physical perfection as a matter of pride.
tl;dr: It just looks the same, but the reasons are worlds apart - and that is an important thing to keep in mind, especially when roleplaying them.
I was actually just thinking, that a lot of the reason warrior females might dress in a manor that some audiences would think provocative is to distract their (potentially male) opponents.If you're gaping at the lady in front of you dressed entirely in a few scanty bits of leather/fabric you're much less likely to notice that lady plunging a sword through your chest. Rather poor sportsmanship but if it helps you come out of a fight against a potentially stronger opponent then you can't complain too much.
flamingkillamajig wrote:So you're saying drow, night elves, yautja, and orions are all sluts? That's offensive .
Well, yes and no. Yautja and night elves are just pseudo-feral. They don't dress the way they do to provoke, but simply because it's practical, so it may only seem slutty if you apply contemporary western world morals to their appearance.
Drow and orion, on the other hand, pride their appearance and oftentimes showcase their bodies in an effort to either enchant others or simply to parade their physical perfection as a matter of pride.
tl;dr: It just looks the same, but the reasons are worlds apart - and that is an important thing to keep in mind, especially when roleplaying them.
I was actually just thinking, that a lot of the reason warrior females might dress in a manor that some audiences would think provocative is to distract their (potentially male) opponents.If you're gaping at the lady in front of you dressed entirely in a few scanty bits of leather/fabric you're much less likely to notice that lady plunging a sword through your chest. Rather poor sportsmanship but if it helps you come out of a fight against a potentially stronger opponent then you can't complain too much.
You aren't giving people enough credit. A man won't be distracted by a pair of boobs if his life is at risk unless he was really dumb.
purplefood wrote: Yeah, but that sucks when compared to decent protection in combat. Trained soldiers would just slice 'em up.
I'd agree with this in general.
But in the world of fiction I'm willing to be more flexible. How a character dresses, no matter how ridiculous, can say a lot about who that character is as a person. If how they are dressed can be justified via their character, I am willing to let it slide as a player from an RP perspective. From a game perspective, eye candy is enjoyable.
That said, games like TERRA where the option is generally in the range of "nice bikini armor' or 'birthday suit' I tend to be a little disappointed. GW2 and SWTOR offers a rather excellent clothing selection for players and should be seen as the gold standard in terms of gaming. Bikini armor is all well and good for me, but the other more modest options should be available.
I potentially disagree. There are many many examples of warrior cultures in Africa/Australia/England that dressed in completely strange and nonsensical ways in order to put the opponent off balance and potentially intimidate them. Heck the old timy English natives apparently went into battle almost naked with hair spiked up and their skin died (most people think blue, but apparently it could have been orange).
dementedwombat wrote: I potentially disagree. There are many many examples of warrior cultures in Africa/Australia/England that dressed in completely strange and nonsensical ways in order to put the opponent off balance and potentially intimidate them. Heck the old timy English natives apparently went into battle almost naked with hair spiked up and their skin died (most people think blue, but apparently it could have been orange).
Maybe so but eventually the better trained and dressed warriors won overall.
dementedwombat wrote: I potentially disagree. There are many many examples of warrior cultures in Africa/Australia/England that dressed in completely strange and nonsensical ways in order to put the opponent off balance and potentially intimidate them. Heck the old timy English natives apparently went into battle almost naked with hair spiked up and their skin died (most people think blue, but apparently it could have been orange).
Maybe so but eventually the better trained and dressed warriors won overall.
I certainly won't disagree with that, but the fact that it has a proven historical precedent means that it is a reasonable inclusion in games (at least of the Fantasy variety, which are at least loosely based on things that happened on earth in the past). This is especially true if the fighters in question come from a gladiatorial background or some other kind of stylized fighting where appearance is important.
I'm not arguing that going into battle with your fancy bits hanging out is a good idea, only that it has been done before and that there is a historical pendent why some people decided to do it.
dementedwombat wrote: I potentially disagree. There are many many examples of warrior cultures in Africa/Australia/England that dressed in completely strange and nonsensical ways in order to put the opponent off balance and potentially intimidate them.
This is true. But also remember that they would base their protection on what was available and what they needed. It's not as simple as "I'm gonna dress like a crazy mother fether to scare this guy."
Example; Armor was fairly bullet resistant for some time, hence why it continued to see use. When it ceased to be effective it was abandoned. Many cultures you're likely thinking of found themselves making very effective weapons but lacking the materials to make comparable armor (Celts and Native Americans are food examples). So they didn't bother. The level of protection is not directly connected to how intimidating you appear. Samurai armor is a good case. Their armor could be pretty freaky to find on the other end of a sword and was effective protection.
This is true. But also remember that they would base their protection on what was available and what they needed. It's not as simple as "I'm gonna dress like a crazy mother fether to scare this guy."
I think that Picts are a good example. They famously painted themselves blue to inspire fear and gain 'magical' protection yet those who could afford it wore chainmail.
If anything "this blue paint will earn the gods favor, wear it and nothing else" was a line the chainmail wearing guys told the non-chainmail wearing guys to get them to go fight
There's also the Aztecs. They had some armor, but they threw it aside when fighting the Spainish cause brine soaked cloth doesn't stop bullets. Hence, seemingly naked men running at Cortez with sticks (actually lined with obsidian shards which can be rather nasty)
I'm afraid I don't actually have enough historical background to carry this discussion much further, but what Palindrome said above seems pretty much accurate. One of their legends talked about a great hero whose hair stood straight out from his head in battle (super saiyan Picts?) so they stuck their hair up to imitate that. I also know that they were some of the best metal workers of their time so if they wanted good armor they could have had it. What I do not know is how many of them actually wore armor or what social status that implied.
Also in modern day Africa lots of warband members do all kinds of body painting and strange costumes despite the currently available bullet resistant armored hardware. Tradition and the desire "not to look like a wimp" can account for many strange decisions.
Ashiraya wrote: I knew Melissia hates Space Marines (Which I disagree with, rawr!) but hating men is something I have seen little indication of.
Yeah I wouldn't say she hates men either, although she has low tolerance for sexist behaviour (which is completely reasonable imo) and at times has a callous and quite opinionated personality. That being said she often has quality posts and has interesting things to say so I appreciate
dementedwombat wrote: Rather poor sportsmanship but if it helps you come out of a fight against a potentially stronger opponent then you can't complain too much.
Not what I would say. I would say “Rather stupid idea that is more likely to get you raped afterward (if somehow you managed to be taken alive, and maybe even if you do not ) than to “distract” your opponent”. Of course, it is a basic of psychological warfare to dress in a frightening manner. However, frightening is not the same as alluring. Some soldier frightened by his opponent is more likely to flee. Some soldier allured by his opponent is more likely not to flee. He is more likely to fight all the harder, and, again, rape afterward. And that would be one of the only situation where I would blame the “victim” too, because trying the sexually stimulate, on purpose, someone that you are actively trying to kill, and that is also actively trying to kill you, is just entering Darwin award level of self-destructive stupidity.
dementedwombat wrote: I potentially disagree. There are many many examples of warrior cultures in Africa/Australia/England that dressed in completely strange and nonsensical ways in order to put the opponent off balance and potentially intimidate them. Heck the old timy English natives apparently went into battle almost naked with hair spiked up and their skin died (most people think blue, but apparently it could have been orange).
Ya, but you won't find man examples of people wearing full plate with a convent cleavage window, or high heels. On the flip side you almost never see women naked covered in scars, blue paint and spiky hair in a mmo (That is my new character concept now! ). There is a difference between the deliberately sexysex outfits you see and well outfits people would actually wear.
This also relates to the old chestnut "they don't need to wear armor". Often when a character doesn't need armor, that is used as an excuse for sexy time outfits, but that is way way limiting for what that excuse could be used for. If someone doesn't have to wear armor, then they can wear whatever they want. Yes that means they can dress sexy, but that can also dress for comfort, dress to make a statement, or any other reason that I can't think of because it's early. Basically being able to wear whatever you want allows for a lot more options then the sexy one.
dementedwombat wrote:I certainly won't disagree with that, but the fact that it has a proven historical precedent means that it is a reasonable inclusion in games (at least of the Fantasy variety, which are at least loosely based on things that happened on earth in the past). This is especially true if the fighters in question come from a gladiatorial background or some other kind of stylized fighting where appearance is important.
I'm not arguing that going into battle with your fancy bits hanging out is a good idea, only that it has been done before and that there is a historical pendent why some people decided to do it.
Yeah, but said historical precedent was not to "distract the opponent" - I know this isn't your intention, but it just comes across sounding a bit cheap, like "cliché male author fantasy reasoning" that resulted in stuff like the chainmail bikini. Besides, as has already been pointed out, the "shock" at seeing a naked lady would evaporate fairly quick if the opponent already sees it (or them ) coming. I wouldn't expect naked skin to have any distracting effect for more than a few seconds, depending on how disciplined the opponent is. Or what sexual preferences they have (if any!).
Female warriors going into battle scantly-clad or even entirely naked very likely did so for the same reasons that their male comrades did, so in most cases tradition and/or religious belief, or simply the lack of clothing/armour they could have donned. In fact, in primitive societies where fighting was a traditionally masculine thing, female warriors might even essentially become males! The Mino regiment of the Dahomey Kingdom, for example, was said to go so far in giving up womanhood that they married other girls and had female whores to service them (kinky fantasies in 3.. 2.. 1).
Let's also remember that covering up certain body parts is dependent on cultural influences - there are still places on this world where women showing their bare breasts just like men can do in the western world is simply considered everyday business rather than something special.
If our contemporary society wouldn't arbitrarily elevate a woman's boobs to some sort of forbidden fruit that you're not supposed to see outside of your bedroom, I have a hunch it'd be the same here. And yet it gets teased by suggestive advertising and sexualised character designs at every corner, as if we couldn't make up our mind.
If mankind were a person, we'd need a really good shrink to fix how messed up we are.
tl;dr: Little or no clothes can absolutely make sense (or may even be expected!) depending on a character's culture. Just don't draw the wrong conclusions, lest you may stumble into some awkward or outright sexist cliches!
LordofHats wrote: If how they are dressed can be justified via their character, I am willing to let it slide as a player from an RP perspective. From a game perspective, eye candy is enjoyable.
This is true. Most settings already offer you ample opportunity to have eye candy* whilst at the same time respecting a species'/culture's background and not come across as if you were "forcing" it - all it takes is a bit of creativity and the willingness to read up on a game's lore.
Spoiler:
Pictured: Female MechWarrior from the Battletech setting.
Lore explanation: It gets friggin' hot in those cockpits. And yes, male pilots tend to wear little as well.
Battletech in particular is surprisingly progressive (or at times even subversive) as far as gender roles and racial minorities are concerned. Games Workshop could learn a thing or two ... or lots from them.
*: whether this is really a good thing depends on how we view the effect of media on the development of our society, but at least it's not as bad as if the developers didn't even care enough to come up with an excuse
nomotog wrote:Ya, but you won't find man examples of people wearing full plate with a convent cleavage window, or high heels. On the flip side you almost never see women naked covered in scars, blue paint and spiky hair in a mmo (That is my new character concept now! ).
Word!
Spoiler:
Pictured: Female Gjalskerlanderin from the German P&P RPG "The Dark Eye"
Daba wrote:No mention of the Gender Swap coffin in Dark Souls 2?
Whut? Elaborate, please - that sounds potentially funny.
Lynata wrote: Let's also remember that covering up certain body parts is dependent on cultural influences - there are still places on this world where women showing their bare breasts just like men can do in the western world is simply considered everyday business rather than something special.
Got to post pictures from the kid movie Kirikou, which was made for kids and watched by kids and should therefore be completely okay to post here. Spoilered for nudity that your kids could watch but that may offend you .
nomotog wrote:Ya, but you won't find man examples of people wearing full plate with a convent cleavage window, or high heels. On the flip side you almost never see women naked covered in scars, blue paint and spiky hair in a mmo (That is my new character concept now! ).
Word!
Spoiler:
Pictured: Female Gjalskerlanderin from the German P&P RPG "The Dark Eye"
Quite nice example. Personally, no hair and only verse tatooed, but lots of scars, and directly from GW's official artwork, my previous avatar. (Moar nudity!)
Spoiler:
Karl Kopinski's depiction of the Repentia, the best ever imho.
dementedwombat wrote: I was actually just thinking, that a lot of the reason warrior females might dress in a manor that some audiences would think provocative is to distract their (potentially male) opponents.If you're gaping at the lady in front of you dressed entirely in a few scanty bits of leather/fabric you're much less likely to notice that lady plunging a sword through your chest. Rather poor sportsmanship but if it helps you come out of a fight against a potentially stronger opponent then you can't complain too much.
As a general rule and in spite of the edicts of modern marketing, men are not a bunch of dumb animals who are so stupid and incompetent that they are simply incapable of thinking of anything other than sex.
The fact that I have to actually SAY this is saddening.
Daba wrote:No mention of the Gender Swap coffin in Dark Souls 2?
Whut? Elaborate, please - that sounds potentially funny.
Somewhere in the game, there's this random coffin which allows you to enter it (it just has press A to enter). Your character enters, it closes and then a few seconds later opens and your character leaves.
When this happens, it swaps the gender of your character, but originally it had no explanation and due to the armour or robes the characters had, many players didn't notice until they had long left the area, and noticed that their beard was missing. Many thought it was a bug.
Another explanation bandied about is that skimpy armor allows for greater freedom of movement. This may be true to some extent but you aren't going to be doing much movement after you are dead with a single blow. Besides, regular armor isn't that encumbering to movement anyway. It's weight is nice and evenly distributed across your body.
And you can get clothes that allow for a lot of movement while not being sexy at all. Stuff like that. It is made specifically with the purpose of not impending movement. It will be warmer than exposed flesh too.
Melissia wrote: As a general rule and in spite of the edicts of modern marketing, men are not a bunch of dumb animals who are so stupid and incompetent that they are simply incapable of thinking of anything other than sex.
TheCustomLime wrote: Another explanation bandied about is that skimpy armor allows for greater freedom of movement. This may be true to some extent but you aren't going to be doing much movement after you are dead with a single blow. Besides, regular armor isn't that encumbering to movement anyway. It's weight is nice and evenly distributed across your body.
1.) Properly trained melee groups fighting in formation always do better than groups not fighting in formation. And fighting in formation means that you can't take advantage of any "superior mobility". You've got friends on both your right and left, meaning that you can't dodge to either side when the enemy in front of you takes a swing.
2.) Carrying all of that equipment while marching for miles every day requires a lot of effort and strength. The result is a lot more muscle, and a lot less body fat. A lot less body fat means a smaller breast size. So any female soldier is going to have less noticeable sexual attributes. And no make-up. It's entirely possible that her opponent won't even realize she's a woman unless he stops to think about why her movements weren't quite right.
TheCustomLime wrote: Another explanation bandied about is that skimpy armor allows for greater freedom of movement. This may be true to some extent but you aren't going to be doing much movement after you are dead with a single blow. Besides, regular armor isn't that encumbering to movement anyway. It's weight is nice and evenly distributed across your body.
1.) Properly trained melee groups fighting in formation always do better than groups not fighting in formation.
1.) Properly trained melee groups fighting in formation always do better than groups not fighting in formation. And fighting in formation means that you can't take advantage of any "superior mobility". You've got friends on both your right and left, meaning that you can't dodge to either side when the enemy in front of you takes a swing.
2.) Carrying all of that equipment while marching for miles every day requires a lot of effort and strength. The result is a lot more muscle, and a lot less body fat. A lot less body fat means a smaller breast size. So any female soldier is going to have less noticeable sexual attributes. And no make-up. It's entirely possible that her opponent won't even realize she's a woman unless he stops to think about why her movements weren't quite right.
1. This is entirely terrain dependent. In open ground with room to form and maneouver you are correct. In broken or boggy terrain light 'irregular' troops have a significant advantage.
2. There are some very feminine, yet muscular, women in the world. Modern soldiers, including female soldiers, carry more than a Roman legionnaire when on ops and take it from me that doesn't mean that they become androgynous.
Sexy little outfits are perfectly fine if they are justifiable. The problem is that they are rarely justifiable and are there purely for titillation which I find childish.
Palindrome wrote: 2. There are some very feminine, yet muscular, women in the world. Modern soldiers, including female soldiers, carry more than a Roman legionnaire when on ops and take it from me that doesn't mean that they become androgynous.
But do they march several miles every day, and then assemble a camp at the end of the march (including some minor fortifications)? Remember, there aren't vehicles to carry the troops in. Modern troops may or may not carry more weight (and I know they carry quite a bit). But I think a typical Roman Legionnaire would have them beat in the daily physical exertion department.
Palindrome wrote: Sexy little outfits are perfectly fine if they are justifiable. The problem is that they are rarely justifiable and are there purely for titillation which I find childish.
The thing is, if it's in a social setting, I can see it. Or if it's, say, a slave uprising, or they're barbarians or something. Or even Celts, whom went in to battle wearing little more than blue paint for religious (and a little bit of psychological warfare) reasons.
But almost every other army, including modern armies? Fully clothed most of the time, whether in battle or out.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eumerin wrote: But do they march several miles every day, and then assemble a camp at the end of the march (including some minor fortifications)?
Yes, they are trained to do exactly this.
Also, "several miles"? Is that it? In many cases, modern soldiers hike 200+ miles. Even on foot, modern soldiers are mobile in a way that ancient soldiers could only dream about.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Got to post pictures from the kid movie Kirikou, which was made for kids and watched by kids and should therefore be completely okay to post here.
Spoilered for nudity that your kids could watch but that may offend you .
It's funny how modern society seems to have a growing disconnect between people's wishes (porn!) and what is officially condoned - hence my remark regarding the shrink. Anyone remember "nipplegate"? ^^
In East Germany, before the reunification, FKK was very popular, and there was a ton of movies for children (produced both in the GDR as well as Czechoslovakia where it was no problem to show naked people of just about any age group. And actually, thinking about it, the western world used to have a way more liberal approach here as well, considering that you had full frontal nudity (both male and female) in Monty Python's Life of Brian. But then again, Monty Python also made a ton of jokes you wouldn't be allowed to bring on TV anymore today.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Karl Kopinski's depiction of the Repentia, the best ever imho.
Agreed!
Though Blanche (the irony! ) also did a fairly cool one based on an early concept of Repentia fluff that was published in Citadel Journal.
Spoiler:
Back then they were still supposed to be lone exiles that'd roam the galaxy like some sort of ecclesiastical ronin, seeking redemption in a glorious death, rather than a posse of frenzied furies rushed into battle by a power-armoured nun dual-wielding a pair of electric whips.
I actually like both versions a lot - they're all suitably crazy in their own way, though one is arguably more grimdark than the other.
Daba wrote:Somewhere in the game, there's this random coffin which allows you to enter it (it just has press A to enter). Your character enters, it closes and then a few seconds later opens and your character leaves.
When this happens, it swaps the gender of your character, but originally it had no explanation and due to the armour or robes the characters had, many players didn't notice until they had long left the area, and noticed that their beard was missing. Many thought it was a bug.
Haha, okay. I can only imagine the reactions of the players! ^^'
TheCustomLime wrote:Another explanation bandied about is that skimpy armor allows for greater freedom of movement. This may be true to some extent but you aren't going to be doing much movement after you are dead with a single blow. Besides, regular armor isn't that encumbering to movement anyway. It's weight is nice and evenly distributed across your body.
This (in addition with a traditional role) is how I tried to explain/excuse night elf armour on the WoW forums once. The Sentinel Army isn't doing straight-up fights, they're engaging enemy forces by hiding in the treetops and then picking them apart with a hail of arrows. Once the enemy panicks, Huntresses on saber-mounts charge into the fleeing troops and ride them down and/or cleave them apart with their huge glaives.
I could see mobility being very important for jumping from tree to tree and maintaining high agility as a mounted warrior (without a saddle), whereas protection can be neglected as the enemy isn't supposed to ever see you anyways, much less actually fight you.
Needless to say, you can only pull such justifications when they're actually supported by the fighting style of an army - and it doesn't change anything about the real world reasons of why the "bikini chainmail"-style is popular.
Lynata wrote: It's funny how modern society seems to have a growing disconnect between people's wishes (porn!) and what is officially condoned
I do not think porn is what people actually wish. I mean, it is like horror movie, or even most action movie. It is something you may like to watch, but definitely not something you would like to live.
Lynata wrote: But then again, Monty Python also made a ton of jokes you wouldn't be allowed to bring on TV anymore today.
I think at least in France, you would.
Lynata wrote: Though Blanche (the irony! ) also did a fairly cool one based on an early concept of Repentia fluff that was published in Citadel Journal.
Why the irony? You do not like his usual work? Or because of the Codex: Sisters of Battle codex cover?
Lynata wrote: I actually like both versions a lot - they're all suitably crazy in their own way, though one is arguably more grimdark than the other.
I like the second version… except for the mistress. It is silly, reeks of inappropriate bdsm reference and needs to go.
Lynata wrote: This (in addition with a traditional role) is how I tried to explain/excuse night elf armour on the WoW forums once. The Sentinel Army isn't doing straight-up fights, they're engaging enemy forces by hiding in the treetops and then picking them apart with a hail of arrows. Once the enemy panicks, Huntresses on saber-mounts charge into the fleeing troops and ride them down and/or cleave them apart with their huge glaives.
I am not familiar with what Sentinel armor looks like, but if one is going to design an outfit for practicality, it is usually not going to be sexy, even if it is not protective. In your example, does Sentinel armor include a lot of camouflage ?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Palindrome wrote: Muscular, or more accurately athletic, women are most certainly still feminine. Just look at how mannish these women look......
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Not even sure those are real, but they pop up when you do a Google Image Search on “female culturist”
Yup. I have a personal theory that the Kaldorei military at large has no experience fighting total wars (Contradicted by WC3 I know but that's Blizzard for you) and that the average Sentinel is pretty much a dressed up mall cop. So, given their ornate Mall Cop status, it makes sense for the average Night Elf soldier to dress less practically. That or the tactics the Kaldorei army uses is highly outdated compared to the... uhh... I don't know... a combination of WW1 and Black Powder-ish tactics and tech the rest of Azeroth uses.
Also, why don't Night Elves ever wear some sort of eye wear that conceals their glowing eyes? I'd imagine that would stand out in the dark.
TBH even the first Warcraft was just kind of average-- decent enough writing, not bad by any means. It's just that it's good in comparison to the OTHER 'craft series games.
Melissia wrote: TBH even the first Warcraft was just kind of average-- decent enough writing, not bad by any means. It's just that it's good in comparison to the OTHER 'craft series games.
I really liked Warcraft 3. May be a bit of nostalgia, played it since I was eigth or something..
I also like Wrath of the Lich King. From then onward, meh.
TheCustomLime wrote:Yup. I have a personal theory that the Kaldorei military at large has no experience fighting total wars (Contradicted by WC3 I know but that's Blizzard for you) and that the average Sentinel is pretty much a dressed up mall cop. So, given their ornate Mall Cop status, it makes sense for the average Night Elf soldier to dress less practically. That or the tactics the Kaldorei army uses is highly outdated compared to the... uhh... I don't know... a combination of WW1 and Black Powder-ish tactics and tech the rest of Azeroth uses.
WoW night elves are a very poor representation of WC3, especially if you're looking at the background rather than game representation. WW1-tactics and blackpowder are not as efficient as you may think if the night elves would actually fight as they were described to. See: Vietnam.
Spoiler:
"Night elves rarely choose to be on the front lines of battle, as they prefer ranged or magical (always divine) attacks. If a night elf is to be on the front lines, she is likely to be mounted, or a druid who can assume a form more appropriate for melee. [...]
Night elf archers are particularly renowned for their ambushes, especially within their own forests. They can move silently among the trees and down opponents a hundred feet away without ever being seen. The archer's specialty is ranged attack, and she will do everything possible to maintain her distance. Most night elf archers also use their stealth, speed and darkvision to full advantage. An archer might creep to a hiding place and wait there for hours to set the target at ease. Archers train both alone and in teams, and often concentrate fire on a single major target or on a small group standing close together. This allows them to take down tougher foes or clustered enemy commanders in a single volley." - Warcraft RPG Alliance Player's Guide : Night Elf Military Tactics
The MMO simply doesn't do their background justice. In part, this is simply due to limitations of the game, as it's impossible to have purely ranged combatants in that game (even hunters need their pets to distract the target), and surprise attacks are worthless because it takes a minute or so of constant face-bashing until someone actually gets killed. Not to mention that you cannot climb and jump from tree to tree. So night elf Sentinels had to be transformed from an army of ninja vietcong focused on ranged combat and terror tactics into the standard melee guard NPCs. Arguably, skimpy armour is much harder to justify there.
tl;dr: don't mistake WoW for Warcraft
TheCustomLime wrote:Also, why don't Night Elves ever wear some sort of eye wear that conceals their glowing eyes? I'd imagine that would stand out in the dark.
I guess they could either disguise this via divine magic, or it doesn't matter because the forests are full of things with similarly glowing eyes or whatever?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Got to post pictures from the kid movie Kirikou, which was made for kids and watched by kids and should therefore be completely okay to post here.
Spoilered for nudity that your kids could watch but that may offend you .
It's funny how modern society seems to have a growing disconnect between people's wishes (porn!) and what is officially condoned - hence my remark regarding the shrink. Anyone remember "nipplegate"? ^^
In East Germany, before the reunification, FKK was very popular, and there was a ton of movies for children (produced both in the GDR as well as Czechoslovakia where it was no problem to show naked people of just about any age group. And actually, thinking about it, the western world used to have a way more liberal approach here as well, considering that you had full frontal nudity (both male and female) in Monty Python's Life of Brian. But then again, Monty Python also made a ton of jokes you wouldn't be allowed to bring on TV anymore today.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Karl Kopinski's depiction of the Repentia, the best ever imho.
Agreed!
Though Blanche (the irony! ) also did a fairly cool one based on an early concept of Repentia fluff that was published in Citadel Journal.
Spoiler:
Back then they were still supposed to be lone exiles that'd roam the galaxy like some sort of ecclesiastical ronin, seeking redemption in a glorious death, rather than a posse of frenzied furies rushed into battle by a power-armoured nun dual-wielding a pair of electric whips.
I actually like both versions a lot - they're all suitably crazy in their own way, though one is arguably more grimdark than the other.
TheCustomLime wrote:Another explanation bandied about is that skimpy armor allows for greater freedom of movement. This may be true to some extent but you aren't going to be doing much movement after you are dead with a single blow. Besides, regular armor isn't that encumbering to movement anyway. It's weight is nice and evenly distributed across your body.
This (in addition with a traditional role) is how I tried to explain/excuse night elf armour on the WoW forums once. The Sentinel Army isn't doing straight-up fights, they're engaging enemy forces by hiding in the treetops and then picking them apart with a hail of arrows. Once the enemy panicks, Huntresses on saber-mounts charge into the fleeing troops and ride them down and/or cleave them apart with their huge glaives.
I could see mobility being very important for jumping from tree to tree and maintaining high agility as a mounted warrior (without a saddle), whereas protection can be neglected as the enemy isn't supposed to ever see you anyways, much less actually fight you.
Needless to say, you can only pull such justifications when they're actually supported by the fighting style of an army - and it doesn't change anything about the real world reasons of why the "bikini chainmail"-style is popular.
Against my better judgment I'm gonna re-join this thread just because the previous issue got buried pretty quick.
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Did you have to say shrink after nudity and porn?
In my opinion most censorship is bad. I try to be offensive to everybody equally or at least give more crap to the groups that get the least amount in general.
I don't totally get censorship. If you don't want to see something then don't watch it. That's part of the point of late night tv since kids should be asleep. Preventing everybody else from seeing something because it offends some people is more unfair and sometimes ruins material. Sometimes things need to be graphic or the point should be difficult to swallow.
I'm wondering if you could even have the 90's animated batman on television these days.
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I'm actual rather curious about the whole east Germany and west Germany thing after world war II. Did you have family on both sides? In my physics class it was also pretty apparent from the beginning of the 20th century till World War II all the best scientists (or at least nobel prize winners in science) seemed to come from Germany. Kind of getting off topic but it's kind of scary Nazis could get so much power though perhaps many citizens were forced into it or killed. Poor treatment usually seems to follow anybody thinking they're better than somebody else for any reason. It's sad that even after these sorts of things people use this reason to treat 'lesser' groups like sh*t as if their pain is instantly less worthy of attention and care than their own.
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I think the ronin idea of repentia sounds cool but it makes less sense to have eastern and western traditions in it whereas the sisters always felt like nuns. So in my opinion it makes more sense how it currently is even if it provokes some rather interesting thoughts .
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I have my reasons for hating elves in general but it's mostly along the lines of them being perfect and snobbish. Thing is they take a bullet just as easily as any other man-sized creature would .
If I ever saw what you mentioned all future fights against those elves would be to light those forests on fire. Simple, easy and though it kills various things they won't be trying those elven tree top shenanigans again. Going out on a limb here (yes I did that for the terrible pun) but I think your elves would be no match to forest fires. Smokey the bear would be unhappy though.
Your post is in time for warhammer fantasy wood elves which are fairly interesting now (yes I have fought them and they're still annoying and fast but with lots more options). The specialist arrows scare me most.
I'm actual rather curious about the whole east Germany and west Germany thing after world war II. Did you have family on both sides? In my physics class it was also pretty apparent from the beginning of the 20th century till World War II all the best scientists (or at least nobel prize winners in science) seemed to come from Germany. Kind of getting off topic but it's kind of scary Nazis could get so much power though perhaps many citizens were forced into it or killed. Poor treatment usually seems to follow anybody thinking they're better than somebody else for any reason. It's sad that even after these sorts of things people use this reason to treat 'lesser' groups like sh*t as if their pain is instantly less worthy of attention and care than their own.
Most of the Nazi scientists weren't forced into developing anything, just like today the big research grant money is always from the military so it behooves research groups to get defense contracts to fund their non-military projects. But yeah, the technological prowess of the third reich was pretty stunning. While I'm not saying "if blah blah blah happened hitler would have won the war", the nazis did invent guided munitions, operational jet air craft, ballistic missiles, night fighting equipment, and assault rifles, just to name a few. Anyway, way off topic, ignore me.
flamingkillamajig wrote:I'm actual rather curious about the whole east Germany and west Germany thing after world war II. Did you have family on both sides?
Well, relatives, but not really close ones. I vaguely recall a couple visits.
I grew up in the latter years of the GDR, so I pretty much missed out on the worst scarcity of the post-war years and the worst excesses of dictatorship during the middle years before the government got softer. Since I was still relatively young when Germany was reunited (I think I was one of the last age groups who became pioneers), I also had an easier time adapting to life in the new German state in that I had not yet had a job I could have lost after so-called investors from West Germany took over previously state-owned industry only to close it and sell its assets for a quick buck, which dealt a heavy blow to the region I grew up in. Plus, I quickly became fascinated by computers (which were rare in the GDR), which would prove to not only shape my future nerdy interests but, in a way, also my occupational career up to this very day.
In a way, I guess I lucked out. Life could have been way more difficult for me had I been born 10 years earlier or later.
flamingkillamajig wrote:Kind of getting off topic but it's kind of scary Nazis could get so much power though perhaps many citizens were forced into it or killed. Poor treatment usually seems to follow anybody thinking they're better than somebody else for any reason. It's sad that even after these sorts of things people use this reason to treat 'lesser' groups like sh*t as if their pain is instantly less worthy of attention and care than their own.
It's the lure of power - and mankind's tendency to look for someone else to blame for their misery. Racism, xenophobia, sexism, etc are all consequences of the downside of the human drive to form groups and "belong", as everyone outside said group may quickly be regarded with bias if not outright hostility, and even within a group individual members may attempt to establish a firm hierarchy that reacts aggressively to anyone not following suit, regarding them as a threat to unity.
The Nazis' rise to power was thus a result of several different factors coming together - a mixture of some citizens looking up to them for the nimbus of order and strength, whilst others were intimidated into inactivity (or outright eliminated), whilst yet others fell victim to clever propaganda intended to unite the German people against what a common "foe" who they were told was responsible for much of the previous misery (including losing WW1).
Contrary to what some people would like to believe, this can happen again, and there are some worrying trends in several countries across the globe.
If you know the TV series "V" (the original, not the remake), it was actually originally intended to be about the rise of a Nazi-like party in the US, titled "It Can Happen Here". Some elements such as the Jewish family, the martial appearance of the Visitors and their slow assimilation of government branches in the background were kept intact when the network ultimately decided to turn it into a sci-fi show to ride the coattail of Star Wars' success in theaters.
There's also a very recommendable novel and movie titled "The Wave" which is about a social experiment conducted at a school. Most scarily, it is actually [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave]based on a true story/url] from a high school in California, expertly showing how very much at risk we as a modern society are from such influences (which is why I cannot agree with some of my German colleagues that society is "talking too much" about WW2 - and why I perceive rampant national pride in some countries with quite a bit of scepticism).
flamingkillamajig wrote:I think the ronin idea of repentia sounds cool but it makes less sense to have eastern and western traditions in it whereas the sisters always felt like nuns.
I just chose this term because I cannot think of a western one that would convey the same idea. I guess I could've also said "lone wolf", but that kind of misses out on the idea that the Repentia, in spite of her exile, is still a dedicated follower of her faith, who keeps pursuing her mission even when away from the convent ->
Andy Hoare, Citadel Journal #49 wrote:A member of the Sisterhood may be stripped of all rank and rights, reduced to a Sister Repentia. They are banned from Holy Service and may suffer other castigations in the form of frequent physical punishment, enforced fasts and confinement. These individuals often attach themselves to Imperial crusades, throwing themselves into the thickest of fighting in an effort to purge themselves of their sins and gain absolution, even if it is only granted in their death.
The Sister Repentia is a new troop type available to Sisters of Battle players as part of their Priestly Delegation, and to Space Marine and Imperial Guard players in the same way as Preachers. When a squad joined by a Sister Repentia is forced to fall back after having been defeated in close combat, the squad falls back as normal, but the enemy may not pursue or consolidate. Instead, the Sister Repentia remains in place and the close combat continues next turn. Should the Sister win the combat she must attempt to join the nearest friendly unit as soon as possible.
"We were stationed at the western quadrant of the Belisarius warzone, a small piece of Emperor-forsaken hell that we'd held for three months before the rebels' main force hit.
We opened fire on them with everything we had, from laspistol to battlecannon. We must have slaughtered thousands, but they weren't even slowed. Emperor forgive me, but I know for a fact no Imperial Guardsman could have completed that charge. They were on us in minutes, and close up I could see from the expressionless look on their faces that something was seriously wrong. They fought like animals, and we soon found ourselves cut off from the company. My squad was cut down man by man; men I had known since the regiment's founding and served alongside in four campaigns. The rebels slashed with bayonets and clawed at us with bare hands. Soon I was the last man standing and the rebels advanced towards me over the dismembered bodies of my comrades.
I raised my lasgun, but as I was about to open fire, a figure leapt down from the barricade and threw itself at my attackers. I could make out little of the newcomer other than remnants of what I took to be Adepta Sororitas armour. The rebels surrounded her and I hesitated, unsure whether I should join the fray. Then a break in the combat appeared, and the figure stared back at me. She was a vision, holy purpose burning in her eyes. I saw the tattered remains of her battle sisters power armour, covered in penitent vows and purity seals. I knew in that instant that she bade me to make good my escape that I may live another day in the Emperor's service.
Then the moment passed and I turned my back on the combat. One month later we retook the trench line and I sought out the scene of the attack. There I found a heap of dead rebels, but of my unknown ally .. no trace." -- Extract of the accused's confession, submitted to Commissar General Luft in the Court Martial of Corporal Chemski, J / 4th Terran Praefects / GK983 833830
flamingkillamajig wrote:If I ever saw what you mentioned all future fights against those elves would be to light those forests on fire.
Well, I'm not sure if the Orks in WC3 didn't actually try that. Divine magic is capable of funny things - I wouldn't put it past the Druids and the Priestesses of the Moon to be capable of sabotaging such attempts somehow, or at least preventing widespread conflagration. Their forests are not exactly ... normal, after all. Feel free to call them cheaters.
Yeah, let's get back on track. To reiterate my previous question why do you think we place such weight on what gender males/females choose for their avatars? Is it a reflection of their sexuality?
Palindrome wrote: Sexy little outfits are perfectly fine if they are justifiable. The problem is that they are rarely justifiable and are there purely for titillation which I find childish.
Eh. They make money, though. TOR's cash shop makes bank off of sexy little outfits.
It's kind of funny, too; every time someone suggests maybe getting rid of the bondage gear and whatnot on the forums, the fiercest dissenters are always female. They like the outfits for themselves, y'see, and like dressing their boytoy male companions up like they're hitting the Castro district, too.
I doubt it. I think it's more a curious note about the behavior of people in games that might speak to the changing face of gender or maybe to underlying ideas about gender?
TheCustomLime wrote: Yeah, let's get back on track. To reiterate my previous question why do you think we place such weight on what gender males/females choose for their avatars? Is it a reflection of their sexuality?
I doubt it. I think it's more a curious note about the behavior of people in games that might speak to the changing face of gender or maybe to underlying ideas about gender?
That would be the point of research
Indeed. I think the most interesting point bout this particular study is how there are unconscious male/female behaviors that arise despite what gender you display. It would seem that males are more assertive and enjoy hitting funny buttons to make funny moves and females enjoy putting emotion into written language.
Or at least that's the generally accepted way for men and women to act anyway. But that's a discussion for a different thread, which usually breaks out in fights anyway, so let's not go too deeply in there
I've mentioned before in other threads, but you can often tell the gender of an author just from reading a few pages written by them*. Not with 100% accuracy of course, but there are notable trends.
Another stereotype, that men write very spare prose, sacrificing description to plot, is also disprovable. They simply may choose to describe things in other ways, or describe other things altogether, than women would. It's rather like the difference between journalistic and artistic photography.
Is the difference based in being a man or woman, or based in the perceptions and expectations of men and women influencing the way they see the world and thus the way they portray it? The argument of course is that gender isn't like biological sex. Biological sex is a binary question in nearly all cases, while gender is a broad spectrum. Some men are more masculine that others etc etc. Maybe that's more than just an outside perception we make about appearances but also about an individuals internal world and perceptions.
EDIT: And of course, what I mean here is that studying gender swapping in games, might be connected to this and lead to a better understanding of how we think about ourselves and each other.
*You can especially notice this in the ways men and women write characters of the opposite sex.
EmilCrane wrote: While I'm not saying "if blah blah blah happened hitler would have won the war", the nazis did invent guided munitions, operational jet air craft, ballistic missiles, night fighting equipment, and assault rifles, just to name a few.
Well, the allies (and actually there was a lot of work here done by scientists that had fled away from the nazi, quite a bunch of them from Hungary) did invent nuclear bombs. That does out-power guided munitions and assault rifles imho.
TheCustomLime wrote: Yeah, let's get back on track. To reiterate my previous question why do you think we place such weight on what gender males/females choose for their avatars? Is it a reflection of their sexuality?
Maybe if they're insecure.
I am insecure, and my choice of avatar is not in any way a reflection of my sexuality. It is a reflection of what I find badass at the moment, usually .
I find that what gender you mostly play in an RPG often correlates to how you relate to characters in stories. For me I relate to characters by imagining me as them, or imagining who I would want to be in this story, therefore I mostly play male characters because I am male. Other people may relate differently, or distance themselves from their player character in a way I don't.
I'm pretty glad people dropped the edgy-kid routine of bashing WoW simply because it's one of the most successful games of all time.
I have 4 characters in my current MMO, all of which are female. Male animations look awkward, females have better clothing options in this particular game, females also have a smaller avatar (although the game has a fixed hitbox) which can fool newbies into not shooting me when they can't see my avatar - yet my hitbox is still showing.
But yeah, it's probably to do with my sexuality, some insecurity, or I'm just a sexist pig. Yeah. OK.
Most of my 'DIY' characters in RPGs are females, because I'd rather be staring at a female (probably in skimpy armour) for hundreds of hours than a guy.
Also, it's led to one of the funniest moments I've had in a game. Standing around in Guild Wars with my Ranger in the notoriously skimpy elite Druid armour, I get a whisper from someone random.
Them: Hi
Me: Hi
Them: Your hot. Wanna chat?
Me: I'm a guy
Them: OH MY GOD
*other person logs off*
Regarding the whispering... I must be lucky I guess. Been playing female avatars non stop for seven years on WoW and had whispers twice. Once, when some random guy came up to a lvl 4 alt and whispered cute and put 50gd into the trade window, I accepted (as why wouldn't you) and he never said another thing. Then more recently, I got propositioned to dominate another character in some kind of sexual nature, but I never responded. They didn't press me any further and to be fair that was in Goldshire on Argent Dawn where frankly its a ERP disaster zone, but also the location of the Darkmoon faire portal. Thus I log out characters there who are static and just popping on once a month to level professions.
As to me playing female alts, I used to assume it was for the butt thing... these days I know better, but as I age I seem less bothered about what others think of me and my traits.
-Loki- wrote: Most of my 'DIY' characters in RPGs are females, because I'd rather be staring at a female (probably in skimpy armour) for hundreds of hours than a guy.
Also, it's led to one of the funniest moments I've had in a game. Standing around in Guild Wars with my Ranger in the notoriously skimpy elite Druid armour, I get a whisper from someone random.
Them: Hi
Me: Hi
Them: Your hot. Wanna chat?
Me: I'm a guy
Them: OH MY GOD
*other person logs off*
I rarely get whisper harassed as a female avatar. (Never as a male one.) It might just be that I haven't played too many newer mmos in awhile, or maybe people just think I am a man.
EmilCrane wrote: I find that what gender you mostly play in an RPG often correlates to how you relate to characters in stories. For me I relate to characters by imagining me as them, or imagining who I would want to be in this story, therefore I mostly play male characters because I am male. Other people may relate differently, or distance themselves from their player character in a way I don't.
I can see why you'd do this. It is very tempting. But as I am an avid roleplayer self-inserting yourself too much can very rapidly become very ugly- people thinking that their character failing and themselves failing is the same thing is one of the more noticeable problems in the community.
I have inserted some traits of myself in my character. (Notably, gender.) But I blend that with things that are quite different from me.
I think all of us insert at least a little bit of ourselves in our PC OCs.
It's hard not to put a bit of yourself in your character since you, the player, are basically the brain of this mindless avatar. All thoughts and actions are being processed through your frame of mind.
Personally, I try to regard my characters and their experiences like a distanced novel, movie or theater piece where I'm just the director - but at the same time, I also inject pieces of my own personality or preferences into them, but sometimes contrasted by traits I would never agree to in real life.
I wonder if, subconsciously, I may regard it as a sort of "what if" experiment? Or is it really as simple as simply projecting things we like or approve of, and some people feel a need to do this more than others (to the point of almost "copying themselves")?
I prefer to become my characters myself by consciously altering my perspective on life. Some characters have philosophies I entirely disagree with but I roll with anyway because I don't consider characters to be the ideal variant of me. Of course, getting this immersed has it's issues as Ashiraya has pointed out and I have fallen victim to it in the past. Gotten better though.
That just tends to happen in forums, especially after a certain pagecount.
If you want to steer the debate back to the original topic, what is your opinion on the subject? Do you have anything to add, or have points on it that would warrant discussion?
Hard to consider a game with such success a garbage heap.
I despise the game, and ive played it before for a good while, but I can see what the game has done and respect that.
To me a garbage heap game would be.
FF14
Guild wars 2
Vanguard
etc
Games like that.. who launched.. and player base dropped to nothing due to many game issues / design flaws.
Of course everyone can have their own idea of what they think.
----
Now to on topic.
I think its more visual armor style/character model then anything else for someone to play a female character.
But I see it as 2 groups.
1: Guys playing Female characters running around in cash shop or the least covering armor as they can acting like they aren't a guy.
2: Guys playing female characters using whatever armor looks cool due to the armor model differences and not acting any other way.
At the same time, I don't use gender specific names if I am on a female character.
Id feel odd running around a Sally. I use the same name for all characters.
Spyder68 wrote: Hard to consider a game with such success a garbage heap.
I despise the game, and ive played it before for a good while, but I can see what the game has done and respect that.
To me a garbage heap game would be.
FF14
Guild wars 2
Vanguard
etc
Games like that.. who launched.. and player base dropped to nothing due to many game issues / design flaws.
Of course everyone can have their own idea of what they think.
----
Now to on topic.
I think its more visual armor style/character model then anything else for someone to play a female character.
But I see it as 2 groups.
1: Guys playing Female characters running around in cash shop or the least covering armor as they can acting like they aren't a guy.
2: Guys playing female characters using whatever armor looks cool due to the armor model differences and not acting any other way.
At the same time, I don't use gender specific names if I am on a female character.
Id feel odd running around a Sally. I use the same name for all characters.
Do you now? Why is that? I mean, I used to do the same, but I think it's a bit uncreative to just use the same exact name for everyone.
I personally give my characters feminine/masculine names because I'd feel weird playing a Draenei girl named "Dave".
Actually, that'd be pretty funny. "It's pronounced Da-vay! Not Dave!".
Spyder68 wrote: Hard to consider a game with such success a garbage heap
Why? Just because a product is successful doesn't make it good.
Spyder68 wrote: Games like that.. who launched.. and player base dropped to nothing due to many game issues / design flaws.
Which didn't happen to Guild Wars 2.
Odd, last time i logged into GW2 there was less then 10 pvp matches going on, along with chat and towns were dead. Maybe its my server ?
If a product wasn't good.. it wouldn't be successful. An MMO that has lasted how long ? With how many players ? As much as i dont like WoW, its the most successful game that has come out. hence people are still talking about the game and its talked about all over.
New mmo comes out.. eh its like wow, or wow does this... Sorry i don't see people compare every new mmo to GW2/Vanguard or star wars galaxies.
I could say the Atari ET game was good... but it doesn't make it successful. (Though id rather play that then GW2 again)
I can say WoW is the worst game ever... but doesnt change the fact how successful the game has been.
The only real instances I remember of gender swapping in games was when an online male friend in runescape changed genders to be a woman. I basically just picking on him and teasing him. Eventually some guys were nearby and saw I was doing that and actually wanted to help him out because I was being a bully. It was really odd and we both laughed and I told them the 'woman' was actually a dude.
The only other time I remember an instance in 'diablo 2' where for no reason and because I was a young immature dude (and am not much more mature now) and made an amazon to play the game through and titled the game 'hot sex' or something. Basically one dude entered the game and just told me his d*ck size as if I wanted to hear that. I told him I was actually a dude. I probably should've said something along the lines of 'that's about the same size as mine' if it made him feel awkward.
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Hard to say what to think about women in games. I have totally fought some woman in starcraft 2 asked if they were them, they replied yes, I said 'cool' and I no longer talked. When they win they just get super 'you got beat by a girl' or similar with it or just really, really poor with sportsmanship. With a different woman I said similar and she was totally a good sport about it. We just played the game I got owned because I suck at starcraft 2 and that was that. I also had a bad experience just trying to play a game with one woman on each of our sides in command and conquer: red alert 2 and the female players kept insulting us. Because you know we made actual defense to fight the things they weren't prepared for. After that they just betrayed us and killed us because there wasn't gak we could do since we tried to protect them with what shortcomings they had. Total b*tches those two. There are some good female players around and these bad experiences with women are often isolated events but I feel this needs to be addressed too.
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MrDwhitey wrote: The Barbarossa Card Game was successful on Kickstarter!
It's totally not a nazi anime girl in panty shot themed trash fest.
You mean like the quality of most harem animes in general?
MrDwhitey wrote: It's totally not a nazi anime girl in panty shot themed trash fest.
So, erotizing nazi as underage pinups. I thought Japan had issues dealing with its own past. Apparently, Japan has issues dealing with history.
(Though I am pretty sure there are a lot of decent Japanese people that would not want to be associate with this kind of stuff at all.)
MrDwhitey wrote: It's totally not a nazi anime girl in panty shot themed trash fest.
So, erotizing nazi as underage pinups. I thought Japan had issues dealing with its own past. Apparently, Japan has issues dealing with history.
(Though I am pretty sure there are a lot of decent Japanese people that would not want to be associate with this kind of stuff at all.)
If there isn't something the Japanese can't turn into a girl, make a visual novel on and allow you to f*ck it virtually then it probably doesn't exist.
Also if you have been in japan for 15 minutes and haven't seen a half naked woman running around screaming at the top of her lungs then you're probably not in japan or something is terribly wrong.
I am joking of course but it's just so ridiculous. I wonder what nobunaga oda would've thought if he knew he was made into a cute anime girl for weird harem anime nerds. He probably would've conquered japan and then forced seppuku on everybody in japan. Hard to say.
MrDwhitey wrote: It's totally not a nazi anime girl in panty shot themed trash fest.
So, erotizing nazi as underage pinups. I thought Japan had issues dealing with its own past. Apparently, Japan has issues dealing with history.
(Though I am pretty sure there are a lot of decent Japanese people that would not want to be associate with this kind of stuff at all.)
If there isn't something the Japanese can't turn into a girl, make a visual novel on and allow you to f*ck it virtually then it probably doesn't exist.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Also if you have been in japan for 15 minutes and haven't seen a half naked woman running around screaming at the top of her lungs then you're probably not in japan or something is terribly wrong.
Uh, what?
Anyway, I thought Japan seemed weird just because it was a far away foreign culture. And then I went to South Korea. Now I think they are just weird . I may forgive them because of Jailhouse 41, Robo-Geisha, A Distant Neighborhood, Alien versus Ninja and Vampire girl versus Frankenstein girl, but barely.
Most of my 'DIY' characters in RPGs are females, because I'd rather be staring at a female (probably in skimpy armour) for hundreds of hours than a guy.
I really don't buy that excuse (mind you, I also don't think you NEED an excuse to play either gender in a game). It seems rather lame, since most of the time you are looking at the world around the character if you're actually playing the game.
Melissia wrote: I really don't buy that excuse (mind you, I also don't think you NEED an excuse to play either gender in a game). It seems rather lame, since most of the time you are looking at the world around the character if you're actually playing the game.
This.
It's not like the man butt of your male characters was magically drawing your eyes toward it. Well.. for most of you anyway.
I was being slightly facetious.
But here is a visual element to picking a female character for me. And no, before the overweight guy in moms basement comments begin, Im not him.
Its not the defining reason, I've had loads of male toons in MMOs but depending on the race choices and general graphic options I have no problem rolling a curvy female. /shrug
Not reading the entire thread, they missed a very obvious reason. If I am going to be staring at a toon's backside for hours at a time when I play a game, I would rather it be a hot female model and not a male model. That's in 3rd person only games. If its a first person primary game then yeah, male character because it really doesn't matter.
I originally thought that people were joking when they said they play either gender for their respective backsides. It's come up so often in this thread that I'm starting to believe you're all completely serious...
Col. Dash wrote: Not reading the entire thread, they missed a very obvious reason
We certainly didn't in this thread. It's been mentioned several times, and the answer to it is usually as follows:
Melissia wrote: I really don't buy that excuse (mind you, I also don't think you NEED an excuse to play either gender in a game). It seems rather lame, since most of the time you are looking at the world around the character if you're actually playing the game.
Melissia wrote: I really don't buy that excuse (mind you, I also don't think you NEED an excuse to play either gender in a game). It seems rather lame, since most of the time you are looking at the world around the character if you're actually playing the game.
I agree there is no excuse needed to play a Gender, character, race class in a game.
but i do not disagree with It seems rather lame, since most of the time you are looking at the world around the character if you're actually playing the game
If that is the case, then why does it matter if some games don't have female characters at all ?
Shouldn't there be 1 unisex and 1 race in video games with no customization ?
The character you are playing is the center point that you constantly see no matter where you go. Character Class, Character Race, Character Gender will always be in that world your looking at while playing the game.
If a class has all around bad looking armor.. i sadly wont play it.
Or did i miss something ?
Avatar 720 wrote: I originally thought that people were joking when they said they play either gender for their respective backsides. It's come up so often in this thread that I'm starting to believe you're all completely serious...
I have to agree with this.. i always thought people joke when they say this.. never thought people were serious.
Melissia wrote: I really don't buy that excuse (mind you, I also don't think you NEED an excuse to play either gender in a game). It seems rather lame, since most of the time you are looking at the world around the character if you're actually playing the game.
You never played WoW, did you? I only played the free part, but yeah, boring walk through the same boring, very repetitive, mostly inanimate scenery, to do some boring quest. I am not into stupid bikini armor, but unlike, say, fighting games, the reason make sense. I am not saying it is a good reason, but it make sense.
Col. Dash wrote: Not reading the entire thread, they missed a very obvious reason. If I am going to be staring at a toon's backside for hours at a time when I play a game, I would rather it be a hot female model and not a male model. That's in 3rd person only games. If its a first person primary game then yeah, male character because it really doesn't matter.
So, male because it does not matter. Not I do not care, because it does not matter. Male by default.
Not really, since in many games it's impossible NOT to create a character whom has what society considers an attractive body. So I don't make that assumption.
I am not saying everyone do choose a female character for that reason. I am saying some people are choosing a female character for that reason. If game propose this option, and sometime makes it the only one available for female character, it is not just by chance, or because the game-maker are out of touch with their audience…
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I am not saying everyone do choose a female character for that reason. I am saying some people are choosing a female character for that reason. If game propose this option, and sometime makes it the only one available for female character, it is not just by chance, or because the game-maker are out of touch with their audience…
I know you aren't saying that's the only reason (my response a few posts above was not directed at you).
But I still find it hard to believe that this is the honest reason for it.
What, your faith in humanity is not shattered enough?
So, let me post that.
Now, do you find it easier to believe ?
More seriously, I do not understand why you have so much trouble with this. I mean, the concept of pin up is not exactly new, many music video are all about portraying women in “sexy” position (see for instance that. Yep, it is just that bad!), the woman's body is pretty much always erotized in our society… why are you so skeptical about people taking female avatar just to gaze at them?
True for everybody all the time? No. I know first-hand . True for most of those that actively confess it? Oh yes they are!
If you have any other explanation for the art displayed here, please share it with me.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: True for everybody all the time? No. I know first-hand . True for most of those that actively confess it? Oh yes they are!
If you have any other explanation for the art displayed here, please share it with me.
Dear god! Did the person who drew this not understand that women have bones too?
And yet people emulate him anyway, thinking his style is not vomit-inducingly bad.
So, you are going to blame those hundreds (or maybe thousands already) of art from a lot of different sources on just one guy?
I mean, you cannot seriously blame him for that, can you?
Well, it is called "Escher girls" and I only saw a couple of drawings which were remarkbly similar before posting so I thought that this was a blog mocking the horrible cheesecake art of one German guy. I am even more saddened now that I know that a bunch of different people drew these... works. What's worse is that their attempts to be sexy fail horribly despite the risque outfits and large busts. Nothing kills a boner more than a body contorted to a horrifying degree.
You know what I find strange? That a lot of these alleged sexy girls are supposed to be fighters of some sort. Why do we sexualize violence so much? Besides being an odd aspect of our culture I really find it odd how fighters manage to look so good. Wars aren't clean. There are fragments, mud and dirt being thrown around. Sure as hell ain't no time to put on conditioner and eyeliner. And wearing really skimpy outfits is a nice way to get your skin jacked up by rocks, branches and what have you.
I think there is a lot of difference between actual role playing or simply gaming with an avatar of the opposite gender. The second is far less personal and you don't necessarily have to identify with the character, it is more of a tool or a companion rather than an alter ego. I wonder if the article really separates between the two types of play.
Melissia wrote: But you can't deny that he had a huge influence on a ton of art in the "Escher Girls" tumblr.
Sorry, I am not enough into comic books to actually know. Or care.
Maybe he was a big influence for the bad anatomy, but he certainly was not that influential for the heavy-handed sexualization anyway, and that what was I was referring to.
TheCustomLime wrote: Well, it is called "Escher girls" and I only saw a couple of drawings which were remarkbly similar before posting so I thought that this was a blog mocking the horrible cheesecake art of one German guy.
That is a funny misunderstanding, because Escher was actually a pretty good painter. He drew stuff that did not make any sense, but he did it on purpose. A good example is the famous stairs :
It is pretty much like R'lyeh geometry at work .
The blog is about making a big collection of art that:
- sexualize women out of context, and
- feature massively distorted anatomy for the sake of “sexiness”.
It is even written in bold at the beginning of every page .
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TheCustomLime wrote: Nothing kills a boner more than a body contorted to a horrifying degree.
Kill yours, certainly. Some people obviously like it.
I would say it is more about people liking violence (well, pretty much every one registered here likes playing war!) and liking sex, so deciding to mix both, and damn the consequence or realism.
Melissia wrote: I really don't buy that excuse (mind you, I also don't think you NEED an excuse to play either gender in a game). It seems rather lame, since most of the time you are looking at the world around the character if you're actually playing the game.
This.
It's not like the man butt of your male characters was magically drawing your eyes toward it. Well.. for most of you anyway.
Speak for yourself!
Just kidding. I do tend to play female avatars in RPGs for most of the reasons already given. But also, because I'm usually in first-person view - I can tell if I'm getting hit by someone off-screen better. If I hear a woman's voice going "Ooof!" I know some hidden archer or frickin' rat is trying to take a chunk out of me. I don't role-play or project myself onto these characters like other gamers, so I have no problem playing a woman. Plus, 99% of the time they're better drawn/rendered/animated. And their armor looks cooler. And they actually have hair selections instead of just different grades of shaved heads.
I think there's an interesting point about the choosing of outfits - because it must require there to be a different "goal" for the one person who creates a female character ONLY for the chainmail bikini, and the person who wants to play a female character for, say, the novelty of RP'ing them.
And then you have to consider how in some games, there's no other choice for a female character to wear anything other than than the sexualised/ridiculous costumes. That has to rest with whoever designs the apparel, no?
I can understand how the two cross over though - I played an evil, high-speech & charisma female in Fallout NV, - basically, playing as a bond-villainess character, and naturally, dressed appropriately. At the same time, my pro-brotherhood alt (also female) was never seen outside of power-armour. I consider that storytelling, rather than voyeurism, but I expect someone could see it differently.
I don't see a problem with trying to give people the option to clothe their characters however they want, after all, RPGs and the like are escapism, and should be open,(within reason - no moon boots in Skyrim, thank you...) but sadly, there's always some people who will take that carte blanche too far.
Which is a shame really, but the "gaming community" is a mixed bunch - and not everyone wants the same things out of their games. Some want to tell a story, some want to be someone else for a few hours... and some people want to stare at the backside of an elf sorceress, or so I'm informed
MarsNZ wrote: I'm pretty glad people dropped the edgy-kid routine of bashing WoW
Because I played it and it sucks.
If that's "edgy", yay, I'm "edgy", whatever that means.
Or apparently just because people like the garbage-heap that is WoW, I'm not allowed to dislike it?
'it sucks because I say it sucks'
good arguement... Millions would disagree with your in-depth review. Where did I say you weren't allowed to like it? I just pointed out that thick-rimmed glasses wearing hipster nerds are everywhere bashing anything that is remotely mainstream, power to you girl, you can do it too, you don't need no man.
MarsNZ wrote: I'm pretty glad people dropped the edgy-kid routine of bashing WoW
Because I played it and it sucks.
If that's "edgy", yay, I'm "edgy", whatever that means.
Or apparently just because people like the garbage-heap that is WoW, I'm not allowed to dislike it?
'it sucks because I say it sucks'
good arguement... Millions would disagree with your in-depth review. Where did I say you weren't allowed to like it? I just pointed out that thick-rimmed glasses wearing hipster nerds are everywhere bashing anything that is remotely mainstream, power to you girl, you can do it too, you don't need no man.
Way to belittle and dismiss dissenting opinions! Get back into line! Think inside the box!
MarsNZ wrote: I just pointed out that thick-rimmed glasses wearing hipster nerds are everywhere bashing anything that is remotely mainstream
That is an utterly ridiculous argument. By your extremely flawed logic anyone who dislikes something popular is automatically a 'hipster' and bases their dislike on attention seeking.
Hehe costume choice... my main female RP alt has multiple outfits.. its getting so bad.. I was often on the WoW forums joining in the RPG requests for a Wardrobe slot in the bank tab.
One of the things a lot of RPers are looking forward too are the new classification of certain items.
MarsNZ wrote: I just pointed out that thick-rimmed glasses wearing hipster nerds are everywhere bashing anything that is remotely mainstream
That is an utterly ridiculous argument. By your extremely flawed logic anyone who dislikes something popular is automatically a 'hipster' and bases their dislike on attention seeking.
When I gender swap in games its mainly for Variety and Theme.
There such a huge excess of stereotypical gruff, steroid chugging Alpha Male protagonists (especially in FPS) that it sometimes gets boring playing male characters all the time, so if given the choice I tend to create female characters.
And I also tend to associate certain character archetypes with a certain gender. In Skyrim (and other fantasy games), if I want to play a lithe, fast and agile Assassin or Thief who focuses on stealth, speed and cunning and uses archery, daggers and light armour; I'll create a female character. And if I want to play a strong, aggressive berzerker or warrior who relies on brute strength, raw aggression and uses battleaxes, hammers, shields, heavy armour etc I'll make a male character. And I prefer playing the former anyway, so tend to play more female characters.
Its just personal preference.
The only MMO I play is The Lord Of The Rings Online (because I'm a LOTR fan) and I don't roleplay. (And my favourite LOTRO character is a female Warden "Shield Maiden" type character inspired by Eowyn. My second favourite is a Dwarf Guardian).
In City of Heroes, my Invulnerable/Energy Melee Tank was a 5'0" slender girl in a tee-shirt and baggy jeans. Meanwhile my Sylvari Warrior in Guild Wars 2... uses a rifle as her main weapon. And I already mentioned my Hobbit Guardian from LotRO.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: And I also tend to associate certain character archetypes with a certain gender. In Skyrim (and other fantasy games), if I want to play a lithe, fast and agile Assassin or Thief who focuses on stealth, speed and cunning and uses archery, daggers and light armour; I'll create a female character. And if I want to play a strong, aggressive berzerker or warrior who relies on brute strength, raw aggression and uses battleaxes, hammers, shields, heavy armour etc I'll make a male character.
I play female dwarf. Dwarves do not do agile, or fast, or stealth, and especially not lithe .
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: And I also tend to associate certain character archetypes with a certain gender. In Skyrim (and other fantasy games), if I want to play a lithe, fast and agile Assassin or Thief who focuses on stealth, speed and cunning and uses archery, daggers and light armour; I'll create a female character. And if I want to play a strong, aggressive berzerker or warrior who relies on brute strength, raw aggression and uses battleaxes, hammers, shields, heavy armour etc I'll make a male character.
I play female dwarf. Dwarves do not do agile, or fast, or stealth, and especially not lithe .
It all really all depends on the type of character I'm trying to make, honestly.
Guild Wars 1, for instance; All of my warriors were Female just because the Male warrior model was this giant hulking figure that was twice the size of everyone else.... But my Elementals, Mesmers, and Ritualists were all Males just because. That elementalist dance, though :/
Mind you, my PVP characters literally swapped every time I made one, just for varieties sake.....
I played a female character for my Pokémon X playthrough. Mostly because I used a male in Y, and because this tiny ten-year-old girl with a ten-foot golem, a giant killer wasp and three dragons is hilarious. Loses points for having the fairy-type Xerneas which is pretty feminine, but still not the archetypal party for such a character.
Extra funny points in that she defeated the Pokémon league (so professional battlers) with said golem dressed like a ballerina. I just find that hilarious.
(the Pokémon mentioned above are Golurk, Beedrill, Flygon, Garchomp, and Zweilous, as well as Xerneas. Still need to evolve Zweilous into Hydreigon)
Melissia wrote: What's so anti-archetypical of a blood elf being an evil overpowered villain?
Because when you normally see Belf characters everywhere looking like
then seeing something like
is quite different.
(Sorry for the glitchy graphics at the knees and forehead, modelviewer be buggy.)
The 2D chestplate really bothers me though. It makes her belly and arms (And hands, actually) look sickly thin. It is bad enough without armour...
Needs more spikes!
Anyways personal habits. Pokemon games for an entire standard generation cycle (2 games, 1 completed version, 2 remakes) ends with me having about 3:2 MtF ratio.
As per RPG games where I can select my gender it ends up being about 70:30 or 60:40 MtF. Sometimes I'll rp sometimes its just because I want to. In the end all look the same to me. Either robed or fitted in full metal.
Besides that, at last I know why I have been mistaken for being a female on several occasions! I just can't seem to tear out them emoticons from my typing
MarsNZ wrote: I just pointed out that thick-rimmed glasses wearing hipster nerds are everywhere bashing anything that is remotely mainstream
That is an utterly ridiculous argument. By your extremely flawed logic anyone who dislikes something popular is automatically a 'hipster' and bases their dislike on attention seeking.
Aww man... thats one of my favorite movies of all time , without the hipster glasses though
I just play what looks best, which usually means i'm playing a female. Something about most of the MMOs makes the females look better than the males - or at least a more interesting model, and generally far better hair styles. It's important to me that my characters look good (at least 40% of why I play is to have a great looking character) and I find female forms more appealing.
Plus, hey, if you're going to be staring at a butt all day, it may as well not be man-butt.
That is because you are playing on games where cloaks make sense. Okay, scratch that, I meant in game where cloaks make no sense whatsoever, but fit in quite well aesthetically .
I have been staring at my character's back in DCUO for hours, but really it was never the butt that particularly caught my attention. The very cool beret and the wings were more of a focal point.
I tend to look at where my character is going. Call me crazy, but I'd prefer not to walk into a load of mobs because I was too busy ogling my character's rear-assets.
Avatar 720 wrote: I tend to look at where my character is going. Call me crazy, but I'd prefer not to walk into a load of mobs because I was too busy ogling my character's rear-assets.
Appearance in Fallout 3 and FNV is very important, because of all of the critical-hit-slo-mo shots of your avatar pumping mutants full of bullets. It's not just the exploding heads that have to look good, then!
Avatar 720 wrote: I tend to look at where my character is going. Call me crazy, but I'd prefer not to walk into a load of mobs because I was too busy ogling my character's rear-assets.
Yeah I agree, there's a lot more important things to look at rather than a butt. This is never a factor for me when making a character.
Avatar 720 wrote: I tend to look at where my character is going. Call me crazy, but I'd prefer not to walk into a load of mobs because I was too busy ogling my character's rear-assets.
Appearance in Fallout 3 and FNV is very important, because of all of the critical-hit-slo-mo shots of your avatar pumping mutants full of bullets. It's not just the exploding heads that have to look good, then!
Didn't fallout have some of the flattish and uninteresting bottoms in gameing?
I almost find it disturbing that people even count butt-staring in when they create characters.
Hey. If you're going to be seeing it for hours on end during the grind to max level, it might as well be pleasant
Cloaks.
I only see the cloak, helm, shoulders, hands, and boots of my character when I play.
Yay for cloaks.
Heh that's always the dumbest thing. A comic from dorkly I think made fun of the hours of tedious planning in making the character and then armoring them up till you can't see any of the details you made at all.
I'm not too big on playing women in games. I'd just imagine it'd be weird for women to play guys. Not so much they'd hate to play guys so much that it'd be confusing mentally. I mean if I was playing as a woman and trying to get some in a game with some guy characters that might be horribly confusing if I was a straight woman. I think I saw a clip from a game called 'Two Souls' (not sure how it turned out but there was at least one negative review somewhere) and I find it funny you're trying to get her some on a date with the handsome guy. I wouldn't call the main female character unattractive as that'd be crazy so much that she seems constantly depressed and in a slump. To be fair I can see why but it sort of gives her a little bit of a creepy vibe. She's still kind of attractive though. Can't say I'd feel comfortable doing it with a girl with an extremely protective and jealous guardian spirit that could kill me if it wanted.
So I guess in short perhaps women wouldn't mind playing as guys getting some if the guys themselves were good looking. In that sense it's not so bad. I mean I'm not saying women only think about that like many guys do but to say they don't at all is ridiculous. It's more that it's frowned upon by society just as guys need to be seen as sex fiends. I don't get it though. Whenever a woman states she's in the mood it's almost like guys cheer but I never hear women cheer for the opposite. It's strange because I imagine guys and girls are more the same than people realize in many ways. We have differences like different parts though obviously . 'Circular bit in circular hole but what if you have a rectangle or triangular shape then what?'
Avatar 720 wrote: I tend to look at where my character is going. Call me crazy, but I'd prefer not to walk into a load of mobs because I was too busy ogling my character's rear-assets.
Yeah I prefer to walk into mobs because I have the fullest intent to murder every last one of them.
Yeah if I wanted that I'd just flip on some p*rn and be done with it. Oddly enough too much sexy time in movies, video games and other forms of media just distract me from the story. I don't always mind it but if it's constant like in 'the witcher' then you can't pay attention to the actual game. It becomes just fulfilling geralt, "man whore" of rivia's insatiable desires. I honestly wish he would just do it with a creature which turns out to be hermaphroditic or a male posing as a female just so it'd shock him. Considering he'll bone anything female in nature it just comes off as 'trying to be too manly and heterosexual'. Throwing him a 'bone' (yes play on words) in a sense would be kind of funny I think ;P.
The story of 'the witcher' did have a lot of really extreme choices though. For instance one which is like Choice A, B and C where the first two choices f*ck over people and the last choice helps yourself and f*cks over everybody else.
I almost find it disturbing that people even count butt-staring in when they create characters.
Hey. If you're going to be seeing it for hours on end during the grind to max level, it might as well be pleasant
Cloaks.
I only see the cloak, helm, shoulders, hands, and boots of my character when I play.
Yay for cloaks.
Heh that's always the dumbest thing. A comic from dorkly I think made fun of the hours of tedious planning in making the character and then armoring them up till you can't see any of the details you made at all.
I'm not too big on playing women in games. I'd just imagine it'd be weird for women to play guys. Not so much they'd hate to play guys so much that it'd be confusing mentally. I mean if I was playing as a woman and trying to get some in a game with some guy characters that might be horribly confusing if I was a straight woman. I think I saw a clip from a game called 'Two Souls' (not sure how it turned out but there was at least one negative review somewhere) and I find it funny you're trying to get her some on a date with the handsome guy. I wouldn't call the main female character unattractive as that'd be crazy so much that she seems constantly depressed and in a slump. To be fair I can see why but it sort of gives her a little bit of a creepy vibe. She's still kind of attractive though. Can't say I'd feel comfortable doing it with a girl with an extremely protective and jealous guardian spirit that could kill me if it wanted.
So I guess in short perhaps women wouldn't mind playing as guys getting some if the guys themselves were good looking. In that sense it's not so bad. I mean I'm not saying women only think about that like many guys do but to say they don't at all is ridiculous. It's more that it's frowned upon by society just as guys need to be seen as sex fiends. I don't get it though. Whenever a woman states she's in the mood it's almost like guys cheer but I never hear women cheer for the opposite. It's strange because I imagine guys and girls are more the same than people realize in many ways. We have differences like different parts though obviously . 'Circular bit in circular hole but what if you have a rectangle or triangular shape then what?'
Dude...I think you're over analyzing it. A video game is just a video game. It doesn't necessarily have to be a virtual representation and extension of yourself. So what if you're playing a character of the opposite sex, and your characters gets together with a character of your sex? The character is not you, you are not the character. You're controlling a virtual character, a collection of digital bytes and pixels in a computer program.
You should be no more creeped out when Lara Croft (2013) kisses her dying male friend, than girls should be when Super Mario rescues Princess Peach. Or when the main character of a movie happens to be the opposite sex and gets together with a character of your sex.
I'm a straight 22 male, but I have no problem making a female character in games such as the Sims, or Tomb Raider, or Skyrim and directing her to have a relationship with a male character. And vice versa. When I play games or read a book or watch a movie, its for escapism. I make up a character, based on whatever archetype and story I feel like playing at the time and just go with it.
As for Jodie in Beyond: Two Souls... She has a hell of a good reason to be so depressed. She's had a powerful supernatural entity shadowing her and simultaneously ruining her life and saving it ever since she was born. Oh, and the Government is chasing her because they want to experiment on her and use her Supernatural 'Powers' for military applications.
And so far as I know, mankind has not yet evolved triangular and rectangular genitals...
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: You should be no more creeped out when Lara Croft (2013) kisses her dying male friend, than girls should be when Super Mario rescues Princess Peach.
Or have to chase after Cortana. Or have Alyx flirt with "you". Or rescue "your" princess from the devil after fighting through a horde of ghouls and ghosts. Or have the game encourage "you" to flirt or even sleep with numerous women. Or have the game shove some scantily-clad woman's ass in "your" face. Or any number of awkward, forced romantic subplots where an NPC woman is lusted after by / has her affection spurned by the male PC, they're really too numerous to bother counting.
But then again, being an entitled white guy means never having to consider other peoples' experiences
Hell, we still have game producers who claim that men really ARE so weak, pathetic, and insecure that they can't handle playing a woman who even just remembers kissing a man (from the objections producers made to Remember Me). Then I get called a misandrist for disagreeing with that assertion
Melissia wrote: But then again, being an entitled white guy means never having to consider other peoples' experiences
I am pretty sure there are a bunch of white guys that care about other peoples experience. I do. That is why resources like “Tropes vs. Women in Video Games” and “Escher girls” and a bunch of others are useful. They make it easier to understand how representations of women can be problematic.
For instance, I guess a few years back, I would only have thought of The FP as an awesome movie. Now, I still consider it an awesome movie, but I also noticed how the only female character is sidelined as a puny, very helpless damsel in distress and how that is pretty sad.
Melissia wrote: Then I get called a misandrist for disagreeing with that assertion
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: You should be no more creeped out when Lara Croft (2013) kisses her dying male friend, than girls should be when Super Mario rescues Princess Peach.
Or have to chase after Cortana. Or have Alyx flirt with "you". Or rescue "your" princess from the devil after fighting through a horde of ghouls and ghosts. Or have the game encourage "you" to flirt or even sleep with numerous women. Or have the game shove some scantily-clad woman's ass in "your" face. Or any number of awkward, forced romantic subplots where an NPC woman is lusted after by / has her affection spurned by the male PC, they're really too numerous to bother counting.
But then again, being an entitled white guy means never having to consider other peoples' experiences
Hell, we still have game producers who claim that men really ARE so weak, pathetic, and insecure that they can't handle playing a woman who even just remembers kissing a man (from the objections producers made to Remember Me). Then I get called a misandrist for disagreeing with that assertion
um...so are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me? Are you calling me an "entitled white guy" ?
I don't think you need to get offended over Melissia's post. I also don't think your support for gender equality should hinge on how nice you perceive its supporters to be to you.
Is there an actual source for the paper that inspired the original article? It might be interesting to see what it actually says or what their methodology was. The article says the research is in January's "Information, Communication & Society" but I'm not sure how to verify that or how many millions of dollars it'd take to access it.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Apparently neither does being a whiny feminist who takes offence at the silliest and most trivial things and resorts to petty point scoring, even lashing out at people who are (at least partially) agreeing with her feminist viewpoint.
I do not think her response was directed to you. I am much more convinced it was there to highlight to people who disliked playing female character because they do not feel comfortable with it, especially if she is flirting with guys (i.e. not you ), how often it happens the other way around. Something along the lines of “You do not like it? Then you need to realize we have to deal with this kind of gak all the time”.
See, that is why you basically end up agreeing on everything. Now chill out, and try reading her post again while not considering you are the entitled white male. Do you still disagree with what she says?
Also keep it mind that always being at the wrong end of the stick tend to make people go on random angry rants more often. I know. See my sig' for more .
I was offended at being labeled "an entitled white guy", even though I was actually agreeing with some of her points. (her remark on Remember Me I agree with 100%).
Like Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl, I don't think she was talking about you.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Apparently neither does being a whiny feminist who takes offence at the silliest and most trivial things and resorts to petty point scoring, even lashing out at people who are (at least partially) agreeing with her feminist viewpoint.
I do not think her response was directed to you. I am much more convinced it was there to highlight to people who disliked playing female character because they do not feel comfortable with it, especially if she is flirting with guys (i.e. not you ), how often it happens the other way around. Something along the lines of “You do not like it? Then you need to realize we have to deal with this kind of gak all the time”.
See, that is why you basically end up agreeing on everything. Now chill out, and try reading her post again while not considering you are the entitled white male. Do you still disagree with what she says?
Also keep it mind that always being at the wrong end of the stick tend to make people go on random angry rants more often. I know. See my sig' for more .
In that case I'll withdraw the comment.
She was quoting me, so I thought it was directed at me ("being an entitled white guy means not having to consider other peoples feelings"). I thought she was saying its sexist to have female characters pining after males or something.
I think I recall her lashing out and making accusations of "white male entitlement" i previous threads, so in my knee jerk reaction I thought that was again the case here.
Sorry Melissia, seems I totally misread your comment.
Avatar 720 wrote: I tend to look at where my character is going. Call me crazy, but I'd prefer not to walk into a load of mobs because I was too busy ogling my character's rear-assets.
Appearance in Fallout 3 and FNV is very important, because of all of the critical-hit-slo-mo shots of your avatar pumping mutants full of bullets. It's not just the exploding heads that have to look good, then!
Didn't fallout have some of the flattish and uninteresting bottoms in gameing?
And that's why the mod community invented body replacers!
Avatar 720 wrote: I tend to look at where my character is going. Call me crazy, but I'd prefer not to walk into a load of mobs because I was too busy ogling my character's rear-assets.
Appearance in Fallout 3 and FNV is very important, because of all of the critical-hit-slo-mo shots of your avatar pumping mutants full of bullets. It's not just the exploding heads that have to look good, then!
Didn't fallout have some of the flattish and uninteresting bottoms in gameing?
And that's why the mod community invented body replacers!
MrDwhitey wrote: I usually play Elves in fantasy games so I've no issue playing female characters.
Not sure on the link between playing elves and playing female characters.
I think it was a jab at elf males being effeminate and girly. In other words, "elf males are girly, so when I play an elf male, it's like I'm playing a human female!"
Indeed, one of the running gags in Looking for Group (A online comic about a group of adventurers) is that no one can tell if the male elf ranger is a dude or lady when they first meet him, and in Order of the Stick it's never stated if Vesuvious is a male or female (and is often the butt of jokes because of it).
Which is kind of silly really, most of the time the male elves in games just have realistic proportions instead of massive bulging muscles like everyone else, and that makes them "feminine" or some other crap.
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