Except all PA stuff won't get transfered to codexes as per GW's statement so PA would still have additional rules.

In fact that's very much GW style. Make players buy 2 books for complete rules.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I reckon it’s because our codex is really soon (based on what Stu has been saying) so would be pointless to put stuff in here as it would instantly become redundant.

While that's fair enough, it's effectively another month or two bolted on to our being a big bag of gak prison sentence. Was hoping to have something new to mess around with at least, other than just Illuminor. Ah well, we waited millennia etc.

IanVanCheese wrote:
While that's fair enough, it's effectively another month or two bolted on to our being a big bag of gak prison sentence. Was hoping to have something new to mess around with at least, other than just Illuminor. Ah well, we waited millennia etc.

I often chuckle when you see topics about needing too much books to bring for a game. Play Necron. No Vigilus, No PA, No white dwarf , nothing but your Codex. But to have to wait at least two month more to have something new is quite a hype-killer for me. With the lockdown i was quite eager to play again soon, but not anymore.

Shaelinith wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
While that's fair enough, it's effectively another month or two bolted on to our being a big bag of gak prison sentence. Was hoping to have something new to mess around with at least, other than just Illuminor. Ah well, we waited millennia etc.

I often chuckle when you see topics about needing too much books to bring for a game. Play Necron. No Vigilus, No PA, No white dwarf , nothing but your Codex. But to have to wait at least two month more to have something new is quite a hype-killer for me. With the lockdown i was quite eager to play again soon, but not anymore.

To be fair, we'll have some new stuff next month in the Indomitus box. New rules for all the new units at least.

Hard time believing that they will produce the same amount of Stratagems, Warlord traits and Relics in the Codex that every other non-forgeworld army now has.

Quite a few of the armies have the Base Codex and then PA added 4-8 Stratagems, 6 Warlord traits and 3-7 Relics, with most split into the different factions within the army.

With the new units in the Indomitus box, they better have the new Codex also available, as the way some of the abilities are worded, they won't work with our current version of Reanimation Protocol.

 Draco765 wrote:
Hard time believing that they will produce the same amount of Stratagems, Warlord traits and Relics in the Codex that every other non-forgeworld army now has.

Quite a few of the armies have the Base Codex and then PA added 4-8 Stratagems, 6 Warlord traits and 3-7 Relics, with most split into the different factions within the army.

With the new units in the Indomitus box, they better have the new Codex also available, as the way some of the abilities are worded, they won't work with our current version of Reanimation Protocol.

But the new codex will have the crusade content and will be one of the first to do so, which is a nice perk if you're not 100% competitive.

Dudeface wrote:

 Draco765 wrote:
Hard time believing that they will produce the same amount of Stratagems, Warlord traits and Relics in the Codex that every other non-forgeworld army now has.

Quite a few of the armies have the Base Codex and then PA added 4-8 Stratagems, 6 Warlord traits and 3-7 Relics, with most split into the different factions within the army.

With the new units in the Indomitus box, they better have the new Codex also available, as the way some of the abilities are worded, they won't work with our current version of Reanimation Protocol.

But the new codex will have the crusade content and will be one of the first to do so, which is a nice perk if you're not 100% competitive.

If I want to play this game, I am kind of forced to play in an competitive environment (closest game store is 90+ miles away where they ONLY play ITC rule set). That is not GWs fault (except for them closing the GW store where more casual players use to go), but anything that is not within the ITC environment is worthless for me to have.

The new morale rules help warrior blobs a bit. Losing 15 Warriors doesn't guarantee the unit is wiped out by morale anymore (or force you to spend CP/ run the WL trait that ignores it).

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The new morale rules help warrior blobs a bit. Losing 15 Warriors doesn't guarantee the unit is wiped out by morale anymore (or force you to spend CP/ run the WL trait that ignores it).

What was the change you saw? I haven't seen anything about it.

EDIT:

Ok, so you roll d6+number of losses for morale in 9th. If you are over your LD, you lose one model. You then roll a d6 per model in the squad, and for every 1, an additional model flees, subtracting 1 if the squad is below half strength.

Yeah....thats a big boost.

I'm liking basically everything I hear about 9th. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure people will find some broken cheese and it will rule the meta for a while, but all the changes sound sensible.

Now for the love of god release some more Necron news GW, I've got blue tesla orbs over here.

So I'm guessing the new dynasty has resistance to psychic powers?

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
So I'm guessing the new dynasty has resistance to psychic powers?

Sounds like it.

I was pretty well prepared to spend money this weekend pre-ordering Pariah, the new Inquisitor, the new Sister...

And then we got this weird loose-end of a book with no real faction rules for the two factions I play. And I was a sad panda.

So long as both of those armies get new build-your-own rulesets, relics, and stratagems in the new edition, I'll probably be happy in the long run.

I'd wager the new Necron Codex will drop same week or week after the 9th edition drops. Ideal time since GW will have boosted the faction with all those new models.

IanVanCheese wrote:
I'm liking basically everything I hear about 9th. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure people will find some broken cheese and it will rule the meta for a while, but all the changes sound sensible.

Now for the love of god release some more Necron news GW, I've got blue tesla orbs over here.

I agree. Lots of pissing and moaning about doom and gloom. Everything so far looks to be changes for the better to me.

 Draco765 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Draco765 wrote:
Hard time believing that they will produce the same amount of Stratagems, Warlord traits and Relics in the Codex that every other non-forgeworld army now has.

Quite a few of the armies have the Base Codex and then PA added 4-8 Stratagems, 6 Warlord traits and 3-7 Relics, with most split into the different factions within the army.

With the new units in the Indomitus box, they better have the new Codex also available, as the way some of the abilities are worded, they won't work with our current version of Reanimation Protocol.

But the new codex will have the crusade content and will be one of the first to do so, which is a nice perk if you're not 100% competitive.

If I want to play this game, I am kind of forced to play in an competitive environment (closest game store is 90+ miles away where they ONLY play ITC rule set). That is not GWs fault (except for them closing the GW store where more casual players use to go), but anything that is not within the ITC environment is worthless for me to have.

Having more books filled with more tat you ignore for the 1 best option doesn't make them any more ITC friendly. I usually play chaos marines and because I'm red corsairs the only thing I have over the base codex is 1 relic, 1 warlord trait and 1 strat. It doesn't devalue my choice though by any stretch and I'm not annoyed I can't use the remaining legion stuff.

Likewise in 9th ITC is using core GW rules and missions. But what I think you were trying to say was: "I play in a try hard competitove area and if I have less options than other books I feel I am at a disadvantage", which remains to be seen. But again, more options doesn’t mean better options.

So do we have any thoughts on how the new rules we know so far will impact our existing stuff.

Like vehicles ignoring penalty for moving and firing is a boon for the Triarch Stalker, which was already verging on being a great unit.

I've been a Doom Scythe hater for this edition, but I think the combo of new flyer rules, blast on the main gun and not having to be Sautekh might make them interesting again (depending on points).

I think some combat units are going to be needed to repel chargers and untag our vehicles, so I'm continuing to look at Lychguard. Hopefully the get another attack in the new codex, because at the moment they're great at living, but not good at killing.

Outflanking rules might make a warrior blob an interesting proposition, kinda like Eldar use the guardian bomb.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry for the doublepost, but we have rules for our murderbuckets



They're pretty spicy for their cost. Around 20 pts each. That pistol and combat profile means they'll be a solid deterant to anyone looking to get choppy with our crypteks, and they have a better version of the character protection rules that means in theory you can put them out of LOS within 3 inches and still keep the cryptek nearby from being shot.

6 attacks each at s5 -1 plus a pistol is pretty good. I imagine they just get shot off the table tho since they are a unit of 2. It's hard to analyze until we get the new rules, and we see what reanimation and living metal change to.

 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
6 attacks each at s5 -1 plus a pistol is pretty good. I imagine they just get shot off the table tho since they are a unit of 2. It's hard to analyze until we get the new rules, and we see what reanimation and living metal change to.

Agreed, just looking for a bit of chatter until we have more meaty rules to talk over. True, they can be shot off the table, but the wording on their protector rule means they can hide out of LOS, within 3" of the cryptek and still protect him from being shot at. Also they're not exactly the kind of unit your opponent would be thrilled at having to dedicated any serious firepower towards and they're tough for their points.

I'm more thrilled with their stats as an indicator of what's to come. 6 attacks is already more than any necron unit has had in 8th.

Almost certain I'll be converting mine to not have heads though, just a big glowy orb/eye in the middle of the jet engine.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
6 attacks each at s5 -1 plus a pistol is pretty good. I imagine they just get shot off the table tho since they are a unit of 2. It's hard to analyze until we get the new rules, and we see what reanimation and living metal change to.

Agreed, just looking for a bit of chatter until we have more meaty rules to talk over. True, they can be shot off the table, but the wording on their protector rule means they can hide out of LOS, within 3" of the cryptek and still protect him from being shot at. Also they're not exactly the kind of unit your opponent would be thrilled at having to dedicated any serious firepower towards and they're tough for their points.

I'm more thrilled with their stats as an indicator of what's to come. 6 attacks is already more than any necron unit has had in 8th.

Almost certain I'll be converting mine to not have heads though, just a big glowy orb/eye in the middle of the jet engine.

Also for 2 PL (effective 1/model) they are pretty cheap so I can definitely see myself sticking them in to protect my cryptek.
Also good shoutout on the bodyguard rule as that makes them very survivable (unless we get an errata after 9th drops to say they must be in LOS lol)

where did you find the price of 20pt?

torblind wrote:
where did you find the price of 20pt?

Based on PL. The unit is 2PL for two murderbuckets. The rough conversion is 20pts per PL. It's a guess, but an educated one. For reference, 3 scarab bases is 2 PL and that's 39pts.

Chances are they're about 20pts each, maybe just over. Still cheap for that profile imo.

Especially cheap given the following:

Illuminor is a big, badass base now.
Illuminor used to have a cryptek kw, and likely still does.
This base, for 20 points, provides target immunity to cryptek bases within 3', and *doesn't require LOS either to cryptek or to the targetting entity.

So, we can park this behind a wall, Illuminor in front of the wall, and have a Primarch-sized model which is, for all intents and purposes, immune to the pewpew.

Sounds like a plan.

 DogHeadGod wrote:
Especially cheap given the following:

Illuminor is a big, badass base now.
Illuminor used to have a cryptek kw, and likely still does.
This base, for 20 points, provides target immunity to cryptek bases within 3', and *doesn't require LOS either to cryptek or to the targetting entity.

So, we can park this behind a wall, Illuminor in front of the wall, and have a Primarch-sized model which is, for all intents and purposes, immune to the pewpew.

Sounds like a plan.

What about those pesky "shoot without line of sight" weapons

Szeras rules

He's.... OK. Like for his points, he's good, but his rules are a bit unfocused. He wants to be rushing up the board and getting into fights, but he can only buff warriors and immortals, who don't want that. But for 20pts more than he used to cost, he's had a hell of a buff.

Oh and to answer the post above, if someone wants to shoot their thunderfire cannons or Dark reapers at my 2 man, 40 point bodyguard unit, they're more than welcome to.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Necrontyr/comments/hik05f/szeras_rules/ Reddit link for anyone who can't see that image.

IanVanCheese wrote:

Spoiler:

Szeras rules

He's.... OK. Like for his points, he's good, but his rules are a bit unfocused. He wants to be rushing up the board and getting into fights, but he can only buff warriors and immortals, who don't want that. But for 20pts more than he used to cost, he's had a hell of a buff.

Oh and to answer the post above, if someone wants to shoot their thunderfire cannons or Dark reapers at my 2 man, 40 point bodyguard unit, they're more than welcome to.

Your picture isn’t working :/

 Tiberius501 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Spoiler:

Szeras rules

He's.... OK. Like for his points, he's good, but his rules are a bit unfocused. He wants to be rushing up the board and getting into fights, but he can only buff warriors and immortals, who don't want that. But for 20pts more than he used to cost, he's had a hell of a buff.

Oh and to answer the post above, if someone wants to shoot their thunderfire cannons or Dark reapers at my 2 man, 40 point bodyguard unit, they're more than welcome to.

Your picture isn’t working :/

Hmm, weird, it's loading for me. I'll have a look.

Edit: Added a link to the reddit post of it I made.

Wow... spicy for [edit: very few] points.

Edit: Removed point cost from post.

Ah thanks. That’s a pretty awesome sizeable buff he’s got there for only 20pts. If he’s not going up with 9th Ed he seems really strong, and I’ll certainly be using him. I’d just use him as a counter charge type unit, buffing up the lines and shooting then charging in when dudes/my lines get close.

Yeah. I think he's unfocused and has some rules that will rarely go off, but even just taking into account his statline, shooting profile and renaimation/augmentation buffs I think he justifies his cost - the rest is just fluff stuff on the side.

I'll be trying him out as a babysitter for big infantry blobs to start with.

In terms of specific utility of the Atomic Energy Manipulator; that's a lot of text real estate for an ability that realistically only gives you a net benefit of 2+1 extra turns of random augment.

[For calculation purposes, recall that he can already augment units at the end of each of your movement phases--on the assumption of a 5 turn game and 3 warrior/immortal units, the assumption here is that he kills a unit on turns 2 and 3 and provides an early buff to the subject warrior/immortal unit]

Still very cool--and his statline is way under-budgeted at this point cost.

I noticed his warrior and immortal buffs are permanent. That's pretty strong.
If he kills something in melee he gets a buff a second unit in that turn, so if you play aggressive with his army you can probably steam roll pretty hard by just buffing at every opportunity.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I noticed his warrior and immortal buffs are permanent. That's pretty strong.
If he kills something in melee he gets a buff a second unit in that turn, so if you play aggressive with his army you can probably steam roll pretty hard by just buffing at every opportunity.

Yeah it's always been permanent, but it's nice - so long as you get one of the two useful buffs. +1 str is very meh, but +1 T and BS are both great for warriors and immortals.

Odds of the extra buff going off in combat are pretty situational - chances are you already buffed the units near him in the preceding turns before you make it to combat. It'd be much better if the combat kills buff could be stacked on top of the 1 per unit one - then you'd have an interesting risk/reward rule.

If you are playing aggressively to make the most of the extra unit buff that extra point of strength would come in handy.

Not as good as the toughness and BS, but I wouldn't write it off that quickly.

Yeah, that is a good point, by the time you get into combat there might not be a viable unit left to buff. I guess they want you to rush the enemy or something.

Taht being said, in most of my games I have had enough MWBD to go around, the +1 BS is thus less advantagous, already being maxes at 2+ to hit by that. Of course there is the odd -1 to hit modifier.

I'm really liking Zeras rules, I don't think they're unfocussed at all.

I've been stubbornly running hordes of warriors in 8th despite them being bad, and found that the only way to get anything out of them it to run them aggressively with Anrakyr, and an Immortal Pride Cryptek with Cronometron. They just don't do enough damage for their cost unless you're rapid firing and charging for 80 shots/attacks per 20 man unit (with MWBD, Distruption Fields and Mephrit/Novokh buffs).

Szeras fits brilliantly into this strategy as a replacement for the generic cryptek. Losing the 5++ aura hurts (I think it's good that he doesn't completely invalidate the base option) but having an extra beat stick in the line should make up for it. Warriors that want to get into assault can use all 3 of his augmentations, he comes with a morale immunity aura, and will enjoy the +1 A from Anrakyr. I'm glad I pre-ordered!

I don't see his Atomic Energy Manipulator rule coming up often, but it fits the model nicely.

Assuming reserves still come in at the end of the movement phase, he can at least buff a unit on the turn he/it arrives. Outflanking 20 warriors and Szeras, you can get the buff off straight away.

We'll have to see how the rest of the codex shapes up basically. He's good if our troops are good, he's bad otherwise.

The fact that he is (still) infantry is quite stunning with his new size.
As above, i'm not particulary convinced about his rules, but the body is not bad.
I still hate that there is not an inbuilt way to choose or make less random the augmentations (like Fabulous Bill with his assistant).

Shaelinith wrote:
The fact that he is (still) infantry is quite stunning with his new size.
As above, i'm not particulary convinced about his rules, but the body is not bad.
I still hate that there is not an inbuilt way to choose or make less random the augmentations (like Fabulous Bill with his assistant).

Might be very specific but maybe there will be a stratagem that let's you spend CP to choose the outcome

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:
The fact that he is (still) infantry is quite stunning with his new size.
As above, i'm not particulary convinced about his rules, but the body is not bad.
I still hate that there is not an inbuilt way to choose or make less random the augmentations (like Fabulous Bill with his assistant).

Might be very specific but maybe there will be a stratagem that let's you spend CP to choose the outcome

Doubtful, I don't think there has ever been a stratagem that is specific to a special character.

At least he's not Dynasty specific. Of course, unless something changes, he also won't benefit from Dynasty codex. At least you're not locked into any specific Dynasty from including him.

I really like the look of him. I used the new Cryptek model (because I’m a sucker for good looking models over old resin), who’s only 35pts cheaper, and you get a lot of benefits out of Szeras over him. So I’d say he’s well worth it.

Based on the Cryptothrall rules, and the rules for Szeras. I'm getting the feeling they are re-tooling the army to get to mid-field and hold it.

All the extra bells and whistles are nice, but I really want to see some kind of buffs to our durability so we can actually get a change to *roll* reanimations.


Granted, for what our current HQs actually *do* on the table, they are wildly overcosted.

I heard they may be changing timing on RP. In and of itself, that may be enough. Just have to see what the new timing looks like.

After the last round of point drops, I'd say overlords and lords are almost appropriate for cost. Crypteks are still at least 25% overcooked, Imo.

I'm wishlisting but if they would just bump up the unit size on warriors from 20-30 I feel like we could really mitigate the current resurrection protocol problems and allow better buff stacking.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/hjhdyt/indomitus_datasheets/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

The leaks have begun.

Basically, mostly good stuff. Reanimator seems a bit pants, other than that it all looks like good stuff.

Overlord lost bonus to charge so the lychguard ds charge i have had some success died. 78% odds was fine 52% less so.

Still no word of rp so lots of unknown. 2+ dda is nice but more gunliney is not what i was hoping for

tneva82 wrote:
Overlord lost bonus to charge so the lychguard ds charge i have had some success died. 78% odds was fine 52% less so.

Still no word of rp so lots of unknown. 2+ dda is nice but more gunliney is not what i was hoping for

I guess, but VOD lychguard was a gimmick. Skorpekh destroyers look kinda tasty - hopefully units of 6 when the codex drops.

Plasmancer seems OK, but I think our HQ slots will be too busy for him.

Skorpekh Lord looks like a weapon. Skorpekh destroyers too, well pointed, good rules.

Their number is legion is a nice surprise for warriors.

Scarabs got a stealth buff. 4Ws each now and auto wound on a six to hit.

Royal Warden seems like an auto include if you're running any of our troops in significant numbers.

We need to see the army rules down the line, but for now this is a good start.

IanVanCheese wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/hjhdyt/indomitus_datasheets/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

The leaks have begun.

Basically, mostly good stuff. Reanimator seems a bit pants, other than that it all looks like good stuff.

Yeah I was hoping for a least T6 for the reanimator. Its PL5 so maybe 100pts? More expensive then a cryptek and fairly easy to pick out. Weapons are pretty strong but range is awful


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IanVanCheese wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Overlord lost bonus to charge so the lychguard ds charge i have had some success died. 78% odds was fine 52% less so.

Still no word of rp so lots of unknown. 2+ dda is nice but more gunliney is not what i was hoping for

I guess, but VOD lychguard was a gimmick. Skorpekh destroyers look kinda tasty - hopefully units of 6 when the codex drops.

Plasmancer seems OK, but I think our HQ slots will be too busy for him.

Skorpekh Lord looks like a weapon. Skorpekh destroyers too, well pointed, good rules.

Their number is legion is a nice surprise for warriors.

Scarabs got a stealth buff. 4Ws each now and auto wound on a six to hit.

Royal Warden seems like an auto include if you're running any of our troops in significant numbers.

We need to see the army rules down the line, but for now this is a good start.

Yeah the royal warden is very versatile. Its nice to be able to leave combat with our CC guys and shoot or charge another unit. Handy for our skorpekh destroyers or vehicles if you want to use them elsewhere and not waste a turn

OK let's do this

New units breakdown

Overlord
https://imgur.com/je6oMXG
MWBD now affects all dynasty units and has 9" range, but only gives the +1 to hit (hello Doomsday Arks, how you like to hit on 2s?)
Relentless March: New aura, 6" range, +1 to move and advance for dynasty units, replaces the half of MWBD that got lost.
Still 3 attacks.

Overall, an improvement. He's still meh in combat, but his buffing capabilites improved and that's why we bring him, so win.

Bonus round: until new codex, have fun with this combo. Mephrit Overlord with Merciless Tyrant warlord trait. One shot super sniper with that tachyon arrow that can smoke most characters from the other end of the table with some half decent luck.

Skorptekh Lord
https://imgur.com/je6oMXG
Interesting loadout, weapons for elite units and chaff clearance.
Good statline, though I expected 7/8 W.
Solid beatstick, especially if accompanying Skorptekhs. I reckon these make a solid second wave after wraiths.

Royal Warden
https://imgur.com/Fmm819o
Gun is quite spicy
Fall back and shoot/charge could be invaluable, especially if using warrior blobs (even immortals are happy about this)
I see him making his way into a lot of lists

Canoptek Reanimator
https://imgur.com/H8JIBZt
Hmmm, at first glance he seems not great. Squishy and expensive.
Ability stacks with cryptek though, and 9" range is good
New terrain rules could keep him safe from the big guns letting him do his work.
We'll see...

Necron Warriors
https://imgur.com/BHjbrJD
Can mix and match guns
Their number is legion: reroll 1s on reanimations. Nice surprise here.
A lot of other factors will determine how good these guys are, but a new rules outta nowhere is nice.

Canoptek Scarabs
https://imgur.com/rtO7xeG
Gained a wound.
Hits of 6 automatically wound.
A great unit just got better. 3-6 in unit in the box, but likely just because of number in box. Expect to see them stay at max 9.

Skorptekh Destroyers
https://imgur.com/xI4M3QN
No -1 to hit on the big sword (yay)
The baby swords still being D2 is nice.
Plasmacyte is interesting. Gives +1Str and Attack, but kills a destroyer on a roll of 1. Worth the gamble if they can be taken as larger groups (6 most likely)
Assuming they can mix and match weapons normally, restrictions likely due to box contents.
Generally as I expected, look good, fairly pointed. Solid melee unit that eats aggressors for breakfast.

Plasmancer
https://imgur.com/bDB9MMp
Not bad persay, but competing with a lot of other good HQs now.
Some MW output and a decent shooting profile. Could sit in your lines and cause reliable damage over a game.
Basically gives us an unblockable smite, which is a nice at the very least. Could combo with c'tan for hilarious unstoppable MW list.

Overall, I'm happy with this as a first wave. Maybe nothin as crazy as those marine melta dudes, but as someone on reddit said, it looks fair and balanced against all the other factions, what more could we hope for?

Still need to see new rules for the rest of the new stuff and new army wide rules, dynasty traits, strats etc before we can truly know how good any of this is, but we have some stuff to talk about now at least. Will embed images in the morning, going to bed now.

Great Unit Breakdown, and I agree with everything.

The baseline of all the units are pretty good, which makes me happy. Points can be balanced later, but a bad statline is bad until the next dex.

Yeah I gotta say, my first reaction to the original leaks was disappointment but it was mainly due to how paper think the Reanimator is. Otherwise all this other stuff seems really cool and well balanced. Really like the Warden and Scarabs.

I was disappointed at first because I read the SM units before the Necrons. Man, the power level between the 2 doesn't scream balance to me - yes the crons are balanced but the SM stuff is over the top.

IanVanCheese wrote:


I guess, but VOD lychguard was a gimmick. Skorpekh destroyers look kinda tasty - hopefully units of 6 when the codex drops.

6 bad, 5 good. 6th guy is nerf to the unit

Anything stop us from staking multiple canoptek reanimators on the same unit?

weaver9 wrote:
Anything stop us from staking multiple canoptek reanimators on the same unit?

They've limited buffs so the best possible buff to a roll is +1. So our warriors can only get a 4+ RP rerolling 1s (which is good)

I'm hoping when immortla come back they can reroll everything to represent what they are called

Edit, just checked and didn't realise that only applies to shooting, so maybe the reanimator is a bit better then I thought.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can see the plasmancer being used mostly against say custodes or deathwatch as they are small elite style armies so his MW potential will be very cost effective

Edit: nvm

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:


I guess, but VOD lychguard was a gimmick. Skorpekh destroyers look kinda tasty - hopefully units of 6 when the codex drops.

6 bad, 5 good. 6th guy is nerf to the unit

Ehhhh, kinda, a little bit, but not really. Blast weapons will get minimum of 3 shots against them, big woop, that's average anyway.

Coherency isn't going to be a big issue, just keep your dudes double stacked instead of conga lining - also the second you lose a model you're back to chill coherency rules.

People in the main rumor thread are losing their minds declaring this and that as dead, big units included and they're just wrong.

IanVanCheese wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:


I guess, but VOD lychguard was a gimmick. Skorpekh destroyers look kinda tasty - hopefully units of 6 when the codex drops.

6 bad, 5 good. 6th guy is nerf to the unit

Ehhhh, kinda, a little bit, but not really. Blast weapons will get minimum of 3 shots against them, big woop, that's average anyway.

Coherency isn't going to be a bit issue, just keep your dudes double stacked instead of conga lining - also the second you lose a model you're back to chill coherency rules.

People in the main rumor thread are losing their minds declaring this and that as dead, big units included and they're just wrong.

With 6" you lose out on coherency max range as well by quite a lot inches, there's no reason to go for it when you can have 5 instead

KurtAngle2 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:


I guess, but VOD lychguard was a gimmick. Skorpekh destroyers look kinda tasty - hopefully units of 6 when the codex drops.

6 bad, 5 good. 6th guy is nerf to the unit

Ehhhh, kinda, a little bit, but not really. Blast weapons will get minimum of 3 shots against them, big woop, that's average anyway.

Coherency isn't going to be a bit issue, just keep your dudes double stacked instead of conga lining - also the second you lose a model you're back to chill coherency rules.

People in the main rumor thread are losing their minds declaring this and that as dead, big units included and they're just wrong.

With 6" you lose out on coherency max range as well by quite a lot inches, there's no reason to go for it when you can have 5 instead

Under current rules, RP is the big one.

Also you can't bring a plasmacyte if you're staying at 5 or under models. I just don't think being able to spread out over more of the table is worth gimping your unit size. At the very least its a toss up between advantages rather than a "must stay under 5 models at all times"

Is anyone else frustrated that the big gakking skorpek lord has fewer attacks than a primaris bike? ... 4 attacks....really? They aren't going to have the weight of atacks to cut down high quality targets...
And that overlords are still complete wimps in combat?
Insult to injury, the new glaive lost a point of ap over a warscythe, and lost d2 for damage 1d3...

 iGuy91 wrote:
Is anyone else frustrated that the big gakking skorpek lord has fewer attacks than a primaris bike? ... 4 attacks....really? They aren't going to have the weight of atacks to cut down high quality targets...
And that overlords are still complete wimps in combat?
Insult to injury, the new glaive lost a point of ap over a warscythe, and lost d2 for damage 1d3...

I'm assuming that when the codes drops he will have access to all his wargear.

But yeah I agree it is a bit of a slap in the face. Arguable you can use the skorpekh claw but its not exactly a meq killer

 iGuy91 wrote:
Is anyone else frustrated that the big gakking skorpek lord has fewer attacks than a primaris bike? ... 4 attacks....really? They aren't going to have the weight of attacks to cut down high quality targets...
And that overlords are still complete wimps in combat?
Insult to injury, the new glaive lost a point of ap over a warscythe, and lost d2 for damage 1d3...

More annoyed at his 6 wounds tbh, based on the model size you'd expect 8. Still, he's a bit of a weapon regardless and well worth his cost.

Overlords aren't meant to be combat monsters, they stand there and give aloof orders. I'll take the new aura and better MWBD over an extra attack. Still, I agree he should have 4 attacks. New weapon is whatever, but the old options will still exist too in new book as the models still exist (tbf Staff of Light might go, don't think a SOL overlord model exists anymore).

Overall, some solid stuff for Necrons. Some good changes to MWBD, re-roll RP of 1 on Warriors is pretty sweet, a few really hard-hitting weapons. Viable melee units. Taken by itself, I'd say these are all good changes and updates for an army that struggled in 8th.

It's just rough comparing our guys to the Primaris. A lot of great aura abilities, the Outriders are making Custodes players weep, everyone is salty about the Eradicators. Paying the same PL for our Reanimator as the Marines pay for Eradicators is just lemon juice in the wound.

With the necron rules out i have to ask.
For a completely new player is it reasonable to get two boxes for starting the Necron army or would it be a overkill?
For me the troops are so much nicer than the old ones and as i understand you need around 30- 40 in the army anyway.

I would personally buy 1 and round out the army with other things. You may not want to run 2 of everything in the box, or even 1 of some things.

Araablane wrote:
With the necron rules out i have to ask.
For a completely new player is it reasonable to get two boxes for starting the Necron army or would it be a overkill?
For me the troops are so much nicer than the old ones and as i understand you need around 30- 40 in the army anyway.

It can go both ways. You'd probably end up with more HQs than needed, but USD wise you'd end up saving if you ever wanted more of the units in the long run. There is some element of overkill for sure though. Like, I really don't need anymore Overlords....

That is assuming you can split it, which should not be that hard, as the SM side is going to be in more demand.

That being said, we do know more is coming, so it's really up to you.

Gonna start Necroning.

I see warriors still underpowered, with the points increase on the armies, necron may be stronger (necron warrior 12p and primaris 20...) but I still think they are very weak.

They said something about the new RP (in case we have a new one)?
Do you recommend buying the indomitus box?

Kebabcito wrote:
Gonna start Necroning.

I see warriors still underpowered, with the points increase on the armies, necron may be stronger (necron warrior 12p and primaris 20...) but I still think they are very weak.

They said something about the new RP (in case we have a new one)?
Do you recommend buying the indomitus box?

It's impossible to say from a rules perspective whether I'd recommend buying the box. The models are awesome. If you're going to play necrons, absolutely.

I think GW is trying to push us towards silver tide again, so hopefully we get enough new rules to make that a thing.

As an aside, with the new first turn deciding rules (it's just a straight roll off and done after deployment), I think the Deceiver has become a staple in every list. Being able to move DDAs into firing lanes if we go first, or units out of them if we don't, is is gonna be huge now.

Just had a thought on a possible change they might make to RP, I've seen people saying that they should have it so we do it and the end of the phase but that still won't help with squad wipes or anything.

Maybe have it (and I know people hate this) kind of like FNP, but instead of doing it after a model dies have it so say 10 primaris shoot at you. After they resolved all shots if the unit isn't wiped they can make an RP roll for any models who were slain (any your return don't affect morale). Then if they get shot again do it again but just for slain models. Then at the start of our turn if the unit is still there let us do it for all slain models like we have it now

Its just a thought as to how they might change it as I'm not sure what else they could do with it

Also another thought that occurred to me is if we did start doing it at the end of the phase how would that affect morale, say we lose 10 guys in shooting phase but 5 come back then in CC we lose 4 but 2 get back how much morale would we roll we then need to roll.

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
Just had a thought on a possible change they might make to RP, I've seen people saying that they should have it so we do it and the end of the phase but that still won't help with squad wipes or anything.

Maybe have it (and I know people hate this) kind of like FNP, but instead of doing it after a model dies have it so say 10 primaris shoot at you. After they resolved all shots if the unit isn't wiped they can make an RP roll for any models who were slain (any your return don't affect morale). Then if they get shot again do it again but just for slain models. Then at the start of our turn if the unit is still there let us do it for all slain models like we have it now

Its just a thought as to how they might change it as I'm not sure what else they could do with it

Also another thought that occurred to me is if we did start doing it at the end of the phase how would that affect morale, say we lose 10 guys in shooting phase but 5 come back then in CC we lose 4 but 2 get back how much morale would we roll we then need to roll.

My suggestions is simply that units can come back from the dead if they die within range of a cryptek/overlord with res orb/tomb spyder.

Makes it so you have to wear us down enough to be able to get rid of our support characters. Cut off the head and the body dies sort of deal.

Edit: throwing thoughts out here as they pop up, but I think Heat Ray Triarch Stalkers are gonna be great in 9th. Can move and shoot without penalty, smaller boards will bring us into range sooner, can fire the flamer profile in combat to melt chaff, decent in combat.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
Just had a thought on a possible change they might make to RP, I've seen people saying that they should have it so we do it and the end of the phase but that still won't help with squad wipes or anything.

Maybe have it (and I know people hate this) kind of like FNP, but instead of doing it after a model dies have it so say 10 primaris shoot at you. After they resolved all shots if the unit isn't wiped they can make an RP roll for any models who were slain (any your return don't affect morale). Then if they get shot again do it again but just for slain models. Then at the start of our turn if the unit is still there let us do it for all slain models like we have it now

Its just a thought as to how they might change it as I'm not sure what else they could do with it

Also another thought that occurred to me is if we did start doing it at the end of the phase how would that affect morale, say we lose 10 guys in shooting phase but 5 come back then in CC we lose 4 but 2 get back how much morale would we roll we then need to roll.

My suggestions is simply that units can come back from the dead if they die within range of a cryptek/overlord with res orb/tomb spyder.

Makes it so you have to wear us down enough to be able to get rid of our support characters. Cut off the head and the body dies sort of deal.

Yeahs that not bad, makes res orb useful as well

And I'm looking forward to using the stalker as well its definitely got a buff from the 9th changea. Also as the monolith is titanic it can still leave combat and shoot unlike a lot of other flyer vehicles that lost this ability which I think might catch some people off guard who charge it thinking it'll waste a turn of shooting at the chaff

Necron Scarabs seem pretty good now?

> Stay the same points (if rumours true), when almost everything else is going up.
> Extra wound on profile.
> Better damage output with feeders
> 9th Missions have greater focus on objective holding/scoring mid board, scarabs are perfect for that.
> Scarabs are always under 10 model count, so aren't harshly punished by all the anti-horde changes despite being upwards of a 36 wound unit.

Asymmetric wrote:
Necron Scarabs seem pretty good now?

> Stay the same points (if rumours true), when almost everything else is going up.
> Extra wound on profile.
> Better damage output with feeders
> 9th Missions have greater focus on objective holding/scoring mid board, scarabs are perfect for that.
> Scarabs are always under 10 model count, so aren't harshly punished by all the anti-horde changes despite being upwards of a 36 wound unit.

Yeah they were already great, I think they're gonna be seriously good in 9th. Glad I've agreed to trade my old bases with someone for their new ones.. I'll have 18 of the new guys ready for 9th.

I'm curious as to the damage calculations for the new scarabs vs the old ones, does anyone know if someone had done that?

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
I'm curious as to the damage calculations for the new scarabs vs the old ones, does anyone know if someone had done that?

Against anything they'd wound on a 5+ or better, they're better than before.

Against a T6+ target, here's how it breaks down:

Before:

36 attacks
18 hits
6 wounds

Now:
36 attacks
12 hits, 6 hits that auto-wound
2 regular wounds
8 wounds total

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
I'm curious as to the damage calculations for the new scarabs vs the old ones, does anyone know if someone had done that?

Quick math

6 old scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds,
6 new scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 5.33 wounds

6 old scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds
6 new scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 3.66 wounds

Better vs T5 and below, slightly worse vs T6 and higher.

JNA, your maths is slightly off. You're giving new scarabs auto wound on 5s, it' on 6s. So it would be 18 hits total, of which 3 auto wound, not 6.

Basically better against anything except stuff they wound on 6s, since they could only ever wound on 5s at worst before and the auto wound on 6s to hit doesn't quite offset this. Overall it's a decent buff though.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
I'm curious as to the damage calculations for the new scarabs vs the old ones, does anyone know if someone had done that?

Quick math

6 old scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds,
6 new scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 5.33 wounds

6 old scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds
6 new scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 3.66 wounds

Better vs T5 and below, slightly worse vs T6 and higher.

JNA, your maths is slightly off. You're giving new scarabs auto wound on 5s, it' on 6s. So it would be 18 hits total, of which 3 auto wound, not 6.

Basically better against anything except stuff they wound on 6s, since they could only ever wound on 5s at worst before and the auto wound on 6s to hit doesn't quite offset this. Overall it's a decent buff though.

Huh I'm actually quite surprised there. Still its nice buff overall and the extra wound is awesome

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
I'm curious as to the damage calculations for the new scarabs vs the old ones, does anyone know if someone had done that?

Quick math

6 old scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds,
6 new scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 5.33 wounds

6 old scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds
6 new scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 3.66 wounds

Better vs T5 and below, slightly worse vs T6 and higher.

JNA, your maths is slightly off. You're giving new scarabs auto wound on 5s, it' on 6s. So it would be 18 hits total, of which 3 auto wound, not 6.

Basically better against anything except stuff they wound on 6s, since they could only ever wound on 5s at worst before and the auto wound on 6s to hit doesn't quite offset this. Overall it's a decent buff though.

Huh I'm actually quite surprised there. Still its nice buff overall and the extra wound is awesome

Yeah, they're still not going to run headlong into a 10 man intercessor squad and shredd it, but they will mess up light infantry, they're fast and they have a ton of cheap wounds - if the rumor is true and they stay at 13pts, they're just over 3pts per wound - that's gotta be reach for most pts efficient wounds in the game. 9 scarabs will be an utter pain to shift off an objective and they would cost like 117pts.

Cane someone to the scarab math with The Novokh dynasty trait? Maybe a set with Crimson Haze in effect?

I run 3x9 Novokh Scarabs with a Crimson Haze DLord as a distraction carnifex/murderball.

 Blndmage wrote:
Cane someone to the scarab math with The Novokh dynasty trait? Maybe a set with Crimson Haze in effect?

I run 3x9 Novokh Scarabs with a Crimson Haze DLord as a distraction carnifex/murderball.

9 old Novokh scarabs vs T4 = 36 attacks, 27 hits, 9 wounds.
9 new Novokh scarabs vs T4 = 36 attacks, 27 hits, 12 wounds (4.5 auto, 7.5 normal)

9 old Novokh scarabs vs T6+ = 36 attacks, 27 hits, 9 wounds.
9 new Novokh scarabs vs T6+ = 36 attacks, 27 hits, 8.25 wounds (4.5 auto, 3.75 normal)

Crimson haze adds a tiny amount to each of these, around a wound added tops. I cba doing exact maths on it atm.

Void dragon confirmed

Awesome.

Hopefully the Deceiver and Nightbringer get similar treatment down the line (I'm still hoping for a tri-build kit, but it seems unlikely.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Awesome.

Hopefully the Deceiver and Nightbringer get similar treatment down the line (I'm still hoping for a tri-build kit, but it seems unlikely.

Yeah that thought crossed my mind as well

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Awesome.

Hopefully the Deceiver and Nightbringer get similar treatment down the line (I'm still hoping for a tri-build kit, but it seems unlikely.

Yeah that thought crossed my mind as well

I can see the deceiver being easy enough, basically take off the wings, change the head and spear arm. Boom, deceiver. Nightbringer would be a more significant undertaking. Personally I just hope they're coming in the second wave. Chaos have 4 enormous greater daemons, no reason we can't have three big honking C'Tan

I'm still loyal to The Outsider!
Though they may still be trapped in the sphere, I serve them!
Do they even exist in the lore now?

Oh btw, I knew I shouldn't be trusted with the maths. I was wrong with scarabs, they're actually better against all targets now.

New scarabs vs T4 = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 6.66 wounds (4 auto) + 2.66 normal

New scarabs vs T6 = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 5.33 wounds (4 auto) + 1.33 normal.

I stupidly calculated that of 12 hits, 2 would be 6s. In reality 1/3 of all hits (rolls of 4+) would be 6s.

Now is a good time to tell you all I failed A-level Maths.

On the plus side, scarabs rule.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Oh btw, I knew I shouldn't be trusted with the maths. I was wrong with scarabs, they're actually better against all targets now.

New scarabs vs T4 = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 6.66 wounds (4 auto) + 2.66 normal

New scarabs vs T6 = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 5.33 wounds (4 auto) + 1.33 normal.

I stupidly calculated that of 12 hits, 2 would be 6s. In reality 1/3 of all hits (rolls of 4+) would be 6s.

Now is a good time to tell you all I failed A-level Maths.

On the plus side, scarabs rule.

Haha don't worry about it mate you did a better job then I could've, at least they are better then we thought

I've watched a few batreps now, and with the smaller tablesize and how important control of the Midfield objectives are, I gotta say I am not much down on Gauss Reapers as I was before.

It could very well become a strat to sit on an objective with a blob and a Royal Warden, it may not be that easy to shift, especially if RP is really changing for the better.

 Sasori wrote:
I've watched a few batreps now, and with the smaller tablesize and how important control of the Midfield objectives are, I gotta say I am not much down on Gauss Reapers as I was before.

It could very well become a strat to sit on an objective with a blob and a Royal Warden, it may not be that easy to shift, especially if RP is really changing for the better.

I'm really hopeful we have some way to teleport the gauss reaper guys within the 7inchs for rapid fire or maybe via a nightscythe

If blast weapon units will get a big point increase, the DDA will be hit hard. Problem is, its not an anti horde unit, its anti vehicle. I have a feeling it might be 200 pts. in 9th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I've watched a few batreps now, and with the smaller tablesize and how important control of the Midfield objectives are, I gotta say I am not much down on Gauss Reapers as I was before.

It could very well become a strat to sit on an objective with a blob and a Royal Warden, it may not be that easy to shift, especially if RP is really changing for the better.

I'm really hopeful we have some way to teleport the gauss reaper guys within the 7inchs for rapid fire or maybe via a nightscythe

Put them in a ghost ark, use the deceiver to reploy it 12.1" away from the enemy, disembark them, move them, and you are in rapid fire range. They can even charge, because only the ghost ark is affected by grand illusion.

Some speculation:

I'd keep an eye on the Nihilakh dynasty reclaim the lost empire stratagem + Lychguard in 9th. If 9th edition does boil down to marching into the centre of the board and holding objectives as the primary means to victory, swarming it with 10 man squads of sword and board lychguard and doubling down with reclaim the lost empire with a new improved re-animation protocols could be very hard for any army to shift. In non-ITC 8th events this combination was already strong for objective camping.

Asymmetric wrote:
Some speculation:

I'd keep an eye on the Nihilakh dynasty reclaim the lost empire stratagem + Lychguard in 9th. If 9th edition does boil down to marching into the centre of the board and holding objectives as the primary means to victory, swarming it with 10 man squads of sword and board lychguard and doubling down with reclaim the lost empire with a new improved re-animation protocols could be very hard for any army to shift. In non-ITC 8th events this combination was already strong for objective camping.

I've already been using this strategy to fantastic effect in 8th, I agree that it's going to be even more useful in 9th. Of course we'll have to see what the new codex does, that strat might be going away or changing.

Even just with the lychguard strat to give them 3++ saves, they're really difficult to shift, especially if you get them in cover for a 2+/3++

Asymmetric wrote:
Some speculation:

I'd keep an eye on the Nihilakh dynasty reclaim the lost empire stratagem + Lychguard in 9th. If 9th edition does boil down to marching into the centre of the board and holding objectives as the primary means to victory, swarming it with 10 man squads of sword and board lychguard and doubling down with reclaim the lost empire with a new improved re-animation protocols could be very hard for any army to shift. In non-ITC 8th events this combination was already strong for objective camping.

From what we’ve seen of the leaked mission rules (which is a lot)... this isn’t going to be the case. Same max points from the primary objectives as secondary. A lot easier to max out the kill-point secondaries (giving 30 points out of 90). Plus being killy is the best form of defence: it prevents your opponent from being able to score on their turn.

From what we’ve seen of the leaked mission rules (which is a lot)... this isn’t going to be the case. Same max points from the primary objectives as secondary. A lot easier to max out the kill-point secondaries (giving 30 points out of 90). Plus being killy is the best form of defence: it prevents your opponent from being able to score on their turn.

The playtesters often seem to be saying the opposite, that hunkering on the objectives is critical. We'll see how it plays out.

 p5freak wrote:
If blast weapon units will get a big point increase, the DDA will be hit hard. Problem is, its not an anti horde unit, its anti vehicle. I have a feeling it might be 200 pts. in 9th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I've watched a few batreps now, and with the smaller tablesize and how important control of the Midfield objectives are, I gotta say I am not much down on Gauss Reapers as I was before.

It could very well become a strat to sit on an objective with a blob and a Royal Warden, it may not be that easy to shift, especially if RP is really changing for the better.

I'm really hopeful we have some way to teleport the gauss reaper guys within the 7inchs for rapid fire or maybe via a nightscythe

Put them in a ghost ark, use the deceiver to reploy it 12.1" away from the enemy, disembark them, move them, and you are in rapid fire range. They can even charge, because only the ghost ark is affected by grand illusion.

"For rules purposes, units that are embarked on a transport model that has made a normal move, advanced, fallen back, or remained stationary also count as having made the same kind of move that turn."

I'm betting you won't be able to do that with the new rules.

Asymmetric wrote:
Some speculation:

I'd keep an eye on the Nihilakh dynasty reclaim the lost empire stratagem + Lychguard in 9th. If 9th edition does boil down to marching into the centre of the board and holding objectives as the primary means to victory, swarming it with 10 man squads of sword and board lychguard and doubling down with reclaim the lost empire with a new improved re-animation protocols could be very hard for any army to shift. In non-ITC 8th events this combination was already strong for objective camping.

Lychgaurd? Why not wraiths? Yummy 2++

weaver9 wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:
Some speculation:

I'd keep an eye on the Nihilakh dynasty reclaim the lost empire stratagem + Lychguard in 9th. If 9th edition does boil down to marching into the centre of the board and holding objectives as the primary means to victory, swarming it with 10 man squads of sword and board lychguard and doubling down with reclaim the lost empire with a new improved re-animation protocols could be very hard for any army to shift. In non-ITC 8th events this combination was already strong for objective camping.

Lychgaurd? Why not wraiths? Yummy 2++

Wraiths can get the 2++ easier (they only need one strat, not two) but you can only get 6 wraiths, so less wounds and no in-built RP. I think wraiths will be great for putting pressure on and pinning the enemy in their deployment zone, but lychguard will be the guys that sit on the mid-field objectives and just don't die.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
I'm curious as to the damage calculations for the new scarabs vs the old ones, does anyone know if someone had done that?

Quick math

6 old scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds,
6 new scarabs vs tactical marine = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 5.33 wounds

6 old scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds
6 new scarabs vs T6 and above = 24 attacks, 12 hits, 3.66 wounds

Better vs T5 and below, slightly worse vs T6 and higher.

JNA, your maths is slightly off. You're giving new scarabs auto wound on 5s, it' on 6s. So it would be 18 hits total, of which 3 auto wound, not 6.

Basically better against anything except stuff they wound on 6s, since they could only ever wound on 5s at worst before and the auto wound on 6s to hit doesn't quite offset this. Overall it's a decent buff though.

Yeah, you're right.

That's my bad! I knew it was on a 6 too, I just goofed.

 JNAProductions wrote:


That's my bad! I knew it was on a 6 too, I just goofed.

Lol it's OK, my maths was wrong too. 65 million years in the tomb world does bad things to maths skills apparently. And your overall conclusion was right, new scarabs are better vs all targets (and I think they're absolute little weapons, Gonna be trialing 27 scarabs asap).

 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:
Some speculation:

I'd keep an eye on the Nihilakh dynasty reclaim the lost empire stratagem + Lychguard in 9th. If 9th edition does boil down to marching into the centre of the board and holding objectives as the primary means to victory, swarming it with 10 man squads of sword and board lychguard and doubling down with reclaim the lost empire with a new improved re-animation protocols could be very hard for any army to shift. In non-ITC 8th events this combination was already strong for objective camping.

From what we’ve seen of the leaked mission rules (which is a lot)... this isn’t going to be the case. Same max points from the primary objectives as secondary. A lot easier to max out the kill-point secondaries (giving 30 points out of 90). Plus being killy is the best form of defence: it prevents your opponent from being able to score on their turn.

The problem is that the kill units secondaries are designed to punish skew lists - other than Attrition (which itself requires your opponent to bring more small units than you) you are going to run out of stuff to kill before you max out that objective unless the other player brought a lot of that particular thing. The opponent needs to bring five characters for maxing Assassinate to even be possible, two titans for Titan Slayer, etc. I think maxing your secondaries is a pie in the sky scenario.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:
Some speculation:

I'd keep an eye on the Nihilakh dynasty reclaim the lost empire stratagem + Lychguard in 9th. If 9th edition does boil down to marching into the centre of the board and holding objectives as the primary means to victory, swarming it with 10 man squads of sword and board lychguard and doubling down with reclaim the lost empire with a new improved re-animation protocols could be very hard for any army to shift. In non-ITC 8th events this combination was already strong for objective camping.

From what we’ve seen of the leaked mission rules (which is a lot)... this isn’t going to be the case. Same max points from the primary objectives as secondary. A lot easier to max out the kill-point secondaries (giving 30 points out of 90). Plus being killy is the best form of defence: it prevents your opponent from being able to score on their turn.

The problem is that the kill units secondaries are designed to punish skew lists - other than Attrition (which itself requires your opponent to bring more small units than you) you are going to run out of stuff to kill before you max out that objective unless the other player brought a lot of that particular thing. The opponent needs to bring five characters for maxing Assassinate to even be possible, two titans for Titan Slayer, etc. I think maxing your secondaries is a pie in the sky scenario.

Yeah, which I like tbh. You can go for some of the easier secondaries that can't be maxd out, and then devote your attention to stopping your opponent from getting theirs. I love that maxing secondaries is going to be very hard.

Hmmm interestingly Necrons have never really been a character heavy army but with regards to the Royal Warden + Gauss Reaper warriors camping in the centre of the board, I'm wondering if our character usage may go up compared to 8th.

Right now it seems like Overlord/Imotekh + Cryptek + Royal Warden + Lord is the basic format.

Would running 2 Royal Wardens make any sense? Or even 2 Overlords seeing as how their MWBD and Aura abilities are no longer restricted to Infantry iirc (One to camp at the back with DDA and the other with the bulk of the army)? That may push us to 5 characters in the HQ slot which is the max for a battalion without even factoring in the Skorpekh and or Lokhust destroyer lords. Necrons may well turn into a GSC esque army in regards to the mileage/necessity of their characters if my musings are correct.

punisher357 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
If blast weapon units will get a big point increase, the DDA will be hit hard. Problem is, its not an anti horde unit, its anti vehicle. I have a feeling it might be 200 pts. in 9th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I've watched a few batreps now, and with the smaller tablesize and how important control of the Midfield objectives are, I gotta say I am not much down on Gauss Reapers as I was before.

It could very well become a strat to sit on an objective with a blob and a Royal Warden, it may not be that easy to shift, especially if RP is really changing for the better.

I'm really hopeful we have some way to teleport the gauss reaper guys within the 7inchs for rapid fire or maybe via a nightscythe

Put them in a ghost ark, use the deceiver to reploy it 12.1" away from the enemy, disembark them, move them, and you are in rapid fire range. They can even charge, because only the ghost ark is affected by grand illusion.

"For rules purposes, units that are embarked on a transport model that has made a normal move, advanced, fallen back, or remained stationary also count as having made the same kind of move that turn."

I'm betting you won't be able to do that with the new rules.

None of those are what the Deceiver does. He just Redeploys the unit and applies his limitation to that Unit. The Embarked unit is just along for the ride.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Hmmm interestingly Necrons have never really been a character heavy army but with regards to the Royal Warden + Gauss Reaper warriors camping in the centre of the board, I'm wondering if our character usage may go up compared to 8th.

Right now it seems like Overlord/Imotekh + Cryptek + Royal Warden + Lord is the basic format.

Would running 2 Royal Wardens make any sense? Or even 2 Overlords seeing as how their MWBD and Aura abilities are no longer restricted to Infantry iirc (One to camp at the back with DDA and the other with the bulk of the army)? That may push us to 5 characters in the HQ slot which is the max for a battalion without even factoring in the Skorpekh and or Lokhust destroyer lords. Necrons may well turn into a GSC esque army in regards to the mileage/necessity of their characters if my musings are correct.

It is of course too soon to say but i doubt it. Our characters tends to be on the expensive side, usually without a lot of punch combat wise (compared to marines for example). Their buffs are good but not incredible and having more than 3 will cost us CP.
Our damage heavy units are already not cheap either, and 4 HQ will cost something like 350-400 pts, too much imho.
The only way i can see it happen is if mixed dynasties are a thing. Even then we could play double patrol with 2 characters.

I'm torn. I don't *want* to drop the points for a Lord, Overlord, Cryptek, AND Royal Warden in a list. I guess the first one to go is probably the Cryptek.

Depending on the list, might also need to shoehorn a Skorpehk Lord in there...

Shaelinith wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Hmmm interestingly Necrons have never really been a character heavy army but with regards to the Royal Warden + Gauss Reaper warriors camping in the centre of the board, I'm wondering if our character usage may go up compared to 8th.

Right now it seems like Overlord/Imotekh + Cryptek + Royal Warden + Lord is the basic format.

Would running 2 Royal Wardens make any sense? Or even 2 Overlords seeing as how their MWBD and Aura abilities are no longer restricted to Infantry iirc (One to camp at the back with DDA and the other with the bulk of the army)? That may push us to 5 characters in the HQ slot which is the max for a battalion without even factoring in the Skorpekh and or Lokhust destroyer lords. Necrons may well turn into a GSC esque army in regards to the mileage/necessity of their characters if my musings are correct.

It is of course too soon to say but i doubt it. Our characters tends to be on the expensive side, usually without a lot of punch combat wise (compared to marines for example). Their buffs are good but not incredible and having more than 3 will cost us CP.
Our damage heavy units are already not cheap either, and 4 HQ will cost something like 350-400 pts, too much imho.
The only way i can see it happen is if mixed dynasties are a thing. Even then we could play double patrol with 2 characters.

I agree. I think the cost for another detachment may be too steep. That's got me a bit worried about units like the Royal Warden. I think all Necron armies will likely still want an Overlord and a Cryptek, which only leaves one HQ slot open for anything else. Lords are likely still good, but Skorpekh Lords look like decent toolbox units too. Not sure how that leaves space for the Royal Warden in most lists.

Depends how good our strats are. We can happily spend 2cp on an extra patrol and still have more than we would have had to start in 8th, and that's before you add in the CP given every turn.

I just like that fact that Overlords are no longer guaranteed to be more than one necessary in each list

 Draco765 wrote:

punisher357 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
If blast weapon units will get a big point increase, the DDA will be hit hard. Problem is, its not an anti horde unit, its anti vehicle. I have a feeling it might be 200 pts. in 9th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I've watched a few batreps now, and with the smaller tablesize and how important control of the Midfield objectives are, I gotta say I am not much down on Gauss Reapers as I was before.

It could very well become a strat to sit on an objective with a blob and a Royal Warden, it may not be that easy to shift, especially if RP is really changing for the better.

I'm really hopeful we have some way to teleport the gauss reaper guys within the 7inchs for rapid fire or maybe via a nightscythe

Put them in a ghost ark, use the deceiver to reploy it 12.1" away from the enemy, disembark them, move them, and you are in rapid fire range. They can even charge, because only the ghost ark is affected by grand illusion.

"For rules purposes, units that are embarked on a transport model that has made a normal move, advanced, fallen back, or remained stationary also count as having made the same kind of move that turn."

I'm betting you won't be able to do that with the new rules.

None of those are what the Deceiver does. He just Redeploys the unit and applies his limitation to that Unit. The Embarked unit is just along for the ride.

I should have elaborated what I meant. I'm aware the deceiver's ability isn't one of those things. I was meaning they won't be able to charge out of the ghost ark.

It's pretty clear what you mean, but it's not clear cut is it? You'd need to explicitly address thid situation in the deceiver's ability, as it's not listed among those things that prevent a transport from unloading and have them charge.

If you deceivered a Monolith or night scythe, would you not allow it to bring in a unit that could charge?

If you deceiver forward Zahndrekh, he can't charge, but would you not allow Obyron to ghost mantle a unit of lychguard to to him that then can charge?

There's all kinds of transportation mechanisms that open up with the deceiver. Unless it's explicitly mentioned that a transport can't unload with charge allowed, it's certainly open for discussion

 p5freak wrote:
If blast weapon units will get a big point increase, the DDA will be hit hard. Problem is, its not an anti horde unit, its anti vehicle. I have a feeling it might be 200 pts. in 9th.

The thing is, it used to be 193 pts in 8th and we still brought three of them. If it goes up to 180, I'll consider that a big win for us.

Edit:

having my first game of 9th tonight, 1K lists since we figure it's gonna be slow going.

Overlord
2 x 10 Tesla Immortals
10 x Shield Lychgaurd
6 x scarabs
Heat Ray Triarch Stalker
Doomsday Ark

Taking a mix of stuff that was good and stuff I think has been improved by 9th in various ways. I'm really into Heat ray Stalkers - if they stay cheap, I'm going to considering multiple of them.

Scattered notes and thoughts on that 9th ed game I mentioned above:

Close game but managed to squeak out the win (10/9). It was against imperial Fists, full infantry list. 2 x 3 Suppressors, 4 Inceptors, 3 x 5 Intercessors, Captain, Lt, 2 x 3 Eliminators.

He went first and smoked my DDA, god damn Imperial Fists ruin our tanks. Immortals did work, but very squishy as we know. Scarabs were heroic, made a darting move up to finish off a wounded Lt.

Stalker was good, smoked two suppressors in shooting with heat ray, then an inceptor in charge phase. It also exploded, doing a ton of MWs. It'd already made it's points by then anyway though, very happy with it as distraction carinfex/damage dealer.

Overlord changes are good (played with new MWBD + aura, but current wargear - also played new scarab rules). He still meh in combat, killed some intercessors but got wrecked by captain.

Overall, very happy with my first game of 9th, it looks a lot like 8th on paper, but it played very differently. EVen playing Only War, the super simple mission, it was all about board control.

Also, minimum board size for 1000pts is like a shoebox. Very cosy. Didn't get to use my VOD, no need and no space.

In summary. Scarabs rule, Heat Ray Stalker impressed me and new terrain rules vastly change the game. Subtle changes were interesting. Opposing player getting to swing first in no charger combat etc. Positive we will have missed some new stuff, but yeah, bring on 9th and our new codex.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Scattered notes and thoughts on that 9th ed game I mentioned above:

Close game but managed to squeak out the win (10/9). It was against imperial Fists, full infantry list. 2 x 3 Suppressors, 4 Inceptors, 3 x 5 Intercessors, Captain, Lt, 2 x 3 Eliminators.

He went first and smoked my DDA, god damn Imperial Fists ruin our tanks. Immortals did work, but very squishy as we know. Scarabs were heroic, made a darting move up to finish off a wounded Lt.

Stalker was good, smoked two suppressors in shooting with heat ray, then an inceptor in charge phase. It also exploded, doing a ton of MWs. It'd already made it's points by then anyway though, very happy with it as distraction carinfex/damage dealer.

Overlord changes are good (played with new MWBD + aura, but current wargear - also played new scarab rules). He still meh in combat, killed some intercessors but got wrecked by captain.

Overall, very happy with my first game of 9th, it looks a lot like 8th on paper, but it played very differently. EVen playing Only War, the super simple mission, it was all about board control.

Also, minimum board size for 1000pts is like a shoebox. Very cosy. Didn't get to use my VOD, no need and no space.

In summary. Scarabs rule, Heat Ray Stalker impressed me and new terrain rules vastly change the game. Subtle changes were interesting. Opposing player getting to swing first in no charger combat etc. Positive we will have missed some new stuff, but yeah, bring on 9th and our new codex.

You know...i'm actually not surprised the Stalker is much improved, and the Heat Ray was a good go-to with the smaller board size. That, and the Stalker as a Vehicle ignores the move and shoot penalty as a vehicle...I may need to reconsider bringing mine again when 9th drops

I brought one a lot. These changes make me very happy

 iGuy91 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Scattered notes and thoughts on that 9th ed game I mentioned above:

Close game but managed to squeak out the win (10/9). It was against imperial Fists, full infantry list. 2 x 3 Suppressors, 4 Inceptors, 3 x 5 Intercessors, Captain, Lt, 2 x 3 Eliminators.

He went first and smoked my DDA, god damn Imperial Fists ruin our tanks. Immortals did work, but very squishy as we know. Scarabs were heroic, made a darting move up to finish off a wounded Lt.

Stalker was good, smoked two suppressors in shooting with heat ray, then an inceptor in charge phase. It also exploded, doing a ton of MWs. It'd already made it's points by then anyway though, very happy with it as distraction carinfex/damage dealer.

Overlord changes are good (played with new MWBD + aura, but current wargear - also played new scarab rules). He still meh in combat, killed some intercessors but got wrecked by captain.

Overall, very happy with my first game of 9th, it looks a lot like 8th on paper, but it played very differently. EVen playing Only War, the super simple mission, it was all about board control.

Also, minimum board size for 1000pts is like a shoebox. Very cosy. Didn't get to use my VOD, no need and no space.

In summary. Scarabs rule, Heat Ray Stalker impressed me and new terrain rules vastly change the game. Subtle changes were interesting. Opposing player getting to swing first in no charger combat etc. Positive we will have missed some new stuff, but yeah, bring on 9th and our new codex.

You know...i'm actually not surprised the Stalker is much improved, and the Heat Ray was a good go-to with the smaller board size. That, and the Stalker as a Vehicle ignores the move and shoot penalty as a vehicle...I may need to reconsider bringing mine again when 9th drops

I agree in general just wanted to point out that we don't really have much heavy weapons on infantry that suffers to hit penalities in the first place

Eyjio wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Why are you not a fan of the Plasmacyte? Assuming in the regular Dex the Destroyers are 3-6, it seems really good. The buff can be extremely relevant, getting to strength 8 on the reap blade. Worst case, it can take something like a Lascannon shot if needed to keep the rest of the unit alive. yeah, the 1 in 6 chance to kill a destroyer isn't amazing, but if RP is improved it may not be that huge.

I've also revised my opinion of the Plasmancer as well. My main concern is it seems like our HQ slot going to be super competitive now.

You know, I was going off gut instinct to justify it, as the potential to kill off a 40 point model seemed insane, but you're right. Turns out, there are actually quite a few potential uses for the damn thing. I'm working off the (very tenuous) rumours that they do cap at 3 units per model, that they cost ~40 points each and the plasmacyte is an additional 15, bringing the squad to 135 points; a bit less than 7 intercessors in the new rules. So, here's some facts I found interesting:

-Other than a few cases, the reap-sword outperforms the threshers in almost all situations. If we have the option in the codex to arm all with swords, it's usually the right way to go.
-Those cases aren't always trivial; one of them is T4 W1/2 any save, no inv, where threshers are always just a little better.
-With infusing, S8 makes a huge difference against T4, making the reap-blade superior, and S6 threshers are better vs T5 W1/2 as you might expect from the +1S.
-T3 is also much weaker to the threshers after infusion; GEQ get mulched, as you'd anticipate, expecting to take over 10 casualties from a full strength attack vs 6 uninfused.
-Surprising one: against T5 or lower units, infusing and losing 1 destroyer still on average gives you 95% of the damage output as not infusing; i.e. infusing if you reach combat with full model count is almost always the best decision
-Unfortunately, vs high T models, infusing is extremely swingy: losing 1 thresher model (the ideal) reduces you to on average ~85% of your strength if you hadn't infused; if a model doesn't die, you're about 55% stronger.
-Because rerolling 1's to wound is multiplicative, the Skorptekh lord helps most vs multiwound models where the damage output really matters. Not shocking, but means between the blast gun, claw and reroll aura, it's a surprisingly well rounded unit for any match up.
-Slightly interesting aside: against many units in the game, D2 vs D3 is a lot bigger of a disparity than it looks, which manifests here also. VS a character with 5/6 wounds, D2 needs to hit an extra time, and VS W3 units, it's the same. As a fair amount of melee units have W3, you really want to keep the sword guy alive.

So, my intuition is completely wrong. Despite how it seems, the plasmacyte seems exceptionally useful; it will either eat a high damage shot for the unit, in which case that's 15 points spent to save 40 - a great trade, or it buffs the unit immensely in combat, and the backfire isn't as extreme as it looks. These guys are massive damage dealers and move very quickly. The downside is obvious - against other melee units, they really need the charge, and no inv is a huge disadvantage because they will just melt. Still, I'm glad I did the analysis, I don't feel like much of this was particularly obvious at all!

Seemed to good of an analysis to not post here.

Yeah I find myself agreeing with all of that, but I was never down on the plasmacyte to begin with - assuming 6 man destroyer units will be allowed in the codex.

torblind wrote:
It's pretty clear what you mean, but it's not clear cut is it? You'd need to explicitly address thid situation in the deceiver's ability, as it's not listed among those things that prevent a transport from unloading and have them charge.

If you deceivered a Monolith or night scythe, would you not allow it to bring in a unit that could charge?

If you deceiver forward Zahndrekh, he can't charge, but would you not allow Obyron to ghost mantle a unit of lychguard to to him that then can charge?

There's all kinds of transportation mechanisms that open up with the deceiver. Unless it's explicitly mentioned that a transport can't unload with charge allowed, it's certainly open for discussion

The reason monoliths and night scythes were allowed to do that is because they didn't function the same as a transport. They didn't actually hold the units. They were a mobile gateway to tombworld deployment.

The new rule sets the precedent that if your unit is in the transport and it moves, your unit inside counts as having moved.

This is the wrong thread for this discussion though. I'm bowing out.

I'm really hoping we can make a total blitz melee crons Novokh list with some real teeth now. Something built around a core of:

Outrider battalion (do we really care about playing down 3cp? People were successfully take outrider detachments in 8th with far less CP)

1 Skorpekh lord (loaded up with nastiest relic & warlord trait possible)
~18 Wraiths
~12 Skorpekh destroyers + 2 plasma (i'm assuming there unit size will go up to 6 in the codex).
~9 Scarab Filler.

Should come to around a little over ~1,500 points assuming the rumours for points costs are true for the indomitus kit and wraiths haven't drastically changed. Fill out the rest with fire support / troops / C'tan or whatever else takes my fancy until 2k.

Only thing I'm little concerned over is how quick we can reliably get the Skorpekh destroyers into melee without anyone blowing them off the table first turn.

Scarabs were max 6 on the datasheet leaked

torblind wrote:
Scarabs were max 6 on the datasheet leaked

That's almost certainly just because that's what's in the box. Inceptors were 3 man only in Dark imperium, but went up to 6 in the book.

It's not impossible they'll be 6 limit in the codex, but I'd be shocked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asymmetric wrote:
I'm really hoping we can make a total blitz melee crons Novokh list with some real teeth now. Something built around a core of:

Outrider battalion (do we really care about playing down 3cp? People were successfully take outrider detachments in 8th with far less CP)

1 Skorpekh lord (loaded up with nastiest relic & warlord trait possible)
~18 Wraiths
~12 Skorpekh destroyers + 2 plasma (i'm assuming there unit size will go up to 6 in the codex).
~9 Scarab Filler.

Should come to around a little over ~1,500 points assuming the rumours for points costs are true for the indomitus kit and wraiths haven't drastically changed. Fill out the rest with fire support / troops / C'tan or whatever else takes my fancy until 2k.

Only thing I'm little concerned over is how quick we can reliably get the Skorpekh destroyers into melee without anyone blowing them off the table first turn.

It's an interesting idea. Very fast, very tough, but lack of ob sec units could hurt. Of course it's filled with units that should mulch other ob sec units, so maybe less of an issue. if points allowed, I'd try to squeeze a cryptek on cloak in there for Skorpekh RP boost (also wraiths/scarabs if you pop the strat)

I really wish Skorpekh had an innate 5++ or something. Just to make them that bit more survivable

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
I really wish Skorpekh had an innate 5++ or something. Just to make them that bit more survivable

It'd be nice, but at the same time get them in cover and they have a two up, they're not getting shot by many Ap-4 weapons so don't think a 5++ would do much for them, and we'd probably pay through the teeth for it. I'm happy with them as they are, especially for the rumoured/leaked 40pts per model cost.

We really got to see how the new Reanimation protocols work and what other protective synergy exist (such as cryteks with chrono).

Skorpekh destroyers should be capable of making mince meat out of most units they charge, but the trick is they do need to live and get off the charge. The problem with regular shooty destoyers is they also usually get shot off the board as soon as come out of line of site, but they are at least usually guaranteed to get one round of shooting off.

Skorpekh destroyers are directly competing with Wraiths in the fast attack slot, which are currently more mobile and under the existing rules more durable. Wraiths actually can take a shooting phase. Wraiths can be charged by other melee units and hold them up and wraiths don't care about terrain. Yeah they might not hit the hardest but more often than not just living and reaching your opponents in melee is the biggest hurdle.

As an aside, while the Skorpekh destroyers may be vulnerable, A Skorpekh Lord with Semipiternal Weave and the Enduring will warlord trait would be a durable monster. T7 W7, 3+, 4++, reducing all damage by 1, living metal, stratagem to get back up, is very hard to chew through for a 130pt model. Whether that configuration will be valid come the new codex remains to be seen.

Asymmetric wrote:
We really got to see how the new Reanimation protocols work and what other protective synergy exist (such as cryteks with chrono).

Skorpekh destroyers should be capable of making mince meat out of most units they charge, but the trick is they do need to live and get off the charge. The problem with regular shooty destoyers is they also usually get shot off the board as soon as come out of line of site, but they are at least usually guaranteed to get one round of shooting off.

Skorpekh destroyers are directly competing with Wraiths in the fast attack slot, which are currently more mobile and under the existing rules more durable. Wraiths actually can take a shooting phase. Wraiths can be charged by other melee units and hold them up and wraiths don't care about terrain. Yeah they might not hit the hardest but more often than not just living and reaching your opponents in melee is the biggest hurdle.

As an aside, while the Skorpekh destroyers may be vulnerable, A Skorpekh Lord with Semipiternal Weave and the Enduring will warlord trait would be a durable monster. T7 W7, 3+, 4++, reducing all damage by 1, living metal, stratagem to get back up, is very hard to chew through for a 130pt model. Whether that configuration will be valid come the new codex remains to be seen.

Slight correction, but Skorpehks are Elites.

I agree they're competing and it looks like staying alive will be more important than killing in 9th. With that said, Skorpekhs are cheaper than wraiths (even before the inevitable pts increase for wraiths), get RP as standard, don't take up a valuable Fast attack slot and are much better at killing. I think units with Reap-blades (still a bad name) will be the way to go. Heavy hitters who mulch three wound infantry and, importantly, 6 wound vehicles, very easily.

Skorpekh lord is a beast for sure.

IanVanCheese wrote:


Slight correction, but Skorpehks are Elites..

Oh that is interesting. I missed that. Just assumed they were fast attack.

Asymmetric wrote:
We really got to see how the new Reanimation protocols work and what other protective synergy exist (such as cryteks with chrono).

Skorpekh destroyers should be capable of making mince meat out of most units they charge, but the trick is they do need to live and get off the charge. The problem with regular shooty destoyers is they also usually get shot off the board as soon as come out of line of site, but they are at least usually guaranteed to get one round of shooting off.

Skorpekh destroyers are directly competing with Wraiths in the fast attack slot, which are currently more mobile and under the existing rules more durable. Wraiths actually can take a shooting phase. Wraiths can be charged by other melee units and hold them up and wraiths don't care about terrain. Yeah they might not hit the hardest but more often than not just living and reaching your opponents in melee is the biggest hurdle.

As an aside, while the Skorpekh destroyers may be vulnerable, A Skorpekh Lord with Semipiternal Weave and the Enduring will warlord trait would be a durable monster. T7 W7, 3+, 4++, reducing all damage by 1, living metal, stratagem to get back up, is very hard to chew through for a 130pt model. Whether that configuration will be valid come the new codex remains to be seen.

RP seems to be the thing that will make or break Skorpekh destroyers IMO. If it works similarly to 7e, they will be significantly better than Wraiths; if it's more like 8e, they'll be questionably survivable for sure. That said, the damage difference is massive! For example, vs Intercessors, damage output per Wraith is 3*(2/3)(2/3)(2/3)*2 = 16/9 = ~1.78 wounds; comparatively, a Skorpekh does:
- 4*(7/9)(2/3)(5/6)*2 = 280/81 = ~3.46 wounds per thresher
- 3*(7/9)(2/3)*2 = 28/9 = ~3.11 wounds per sword (2 due to capped damage)
- 5*(7/9)(2/3)(5/6)*2 = 350/81 = ~4.32 wounds per infused thresher
- 4*(7/9)(5/6)*2 = 140/27 = ~5.19 wounds per infused sword
In the best case, Wraiths do around 57% of the destroyer, 34% worse case, and this is one of the most favourable comparisons for them. There are things like vehicles where the destroyers are almost 3 times as effective; in the above case, it can be more beneficial to get in 3 Skorpekh Destroyers as it is to have 5 Wraiths. It's an interesting comparison though, especially as things are not quite so simple as comparing damage outputs. Wraiths are faster, can fall back without penalty and much tougher; Skorpekhs are deadlier, can use the defensible terrain trait as they're infantry, can be buffed by a lord and get reanimation. So, if RP is good, these guys seem useful.

The comparison to normal destroyers is much more interesting. Their shooting vs threshers is about 5% worse vs T3, 25% worse against T4, the same vs T5, 13% better vs T6 and then 25% worse against T7+, but you also always get it. Compared to the sword, it's more like 20%-40% worse. With infusion, the destroyer shooting is obviously always 40% worse against threshers (same S, AP, D2 vs D D3, but 5 attacks vs 3 shots), and 35%-70% worse than the sword, depending on T and Sv. Both almost always beat heavy destroyers, which are usually around 35% as effective as an uninfused sword. Still, otherwise looking at same survivability and shooty destroyers have more movement, so it depends on if you can ever actually get the Skorpekhs into combat. Also worth noting that is destroyers see no point changes and the rumoured 40pts is correct for Skorpekhs, they come in a good 20% cheaper.

Depressing fact of the day: Eradicators are considerably better at shooting than heavy destroyers, even if they're outside half range and the heavy destroyer gets reroll 1's to wound. It's not even particularly close either, it's about 50% better; without reroll it's 76%. They also fight a little better in melee - same damage output but angels of death swings it. Guess they really felt marines needed another buff.

Eyjio wrote:
Depressing fact of the day: Eradicators are considerably better at shooting than heavy destroyers, even if they're outside half range and the heavy destroyer gets reroll 1's to wound. It's not even particularly close either, it's about 50% better; without reroll it's 76%. They also fight a little better in melee - same damage output but angels of death swings it. Guess they really felt marines needed another buff.

Great analysis, but on that last point, bare in mind that our heavy destroyers are about to be replaced by the Lokhust. Leaked points suggested 70 pts for this thing, but we also have no idea on its gun, statline or capabilities. I think it's safe to assume it'll be tougher than the current heavy destroyer, and has two weapon options at the very least.

I think the Emnitic Exterminator gun could be very interesting based on what we saw from the Skorpekh lord's baby version of it, while it also has a new Gauss weapon, the Gauss Destructor.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Great analysis, but on that last point, bare in mind that our heavy destroyers are about to be replaced by the Lokhust. Leaked points suggested 70 pts for this thing, but we also have no idea on its gun, statline or capabilities. I think it's safe to assume it'll be tougher than the current heavy destroyer, and has two weapon options at the very least.

I think the Emnitic Exterminator gun could be very interesting based on what we saw from the Skorpekh lord's baby version of it, while it also has a new Gauss weapon, the Gauss Destructor.

Sure, that's fair, and goodness only knows something needs to give it a boost. My concern is mostly this - the biggest disadvantage to the current destroyer is that it's quite expensive for what it does, which is largely fire once then melt into oblivion. Skorptekhs have a way around this because if they hit combat, they become largely immune to shooting, or cause the enemy to have to fall back off a potential objective, so they're strong in combat and give a positional advantage. Did we really need yet another expensive model with a big gun? The usefulness of the heavy destroyer currently is that it's relatively cheap, compared to the doomsday ark which is the main competition. If they get more expensive, it's going to make our pre-existing issues of being squishy without cheap dangerous units even worse.

My anticipation would be that the Gauss Destructor will still be a single shot, given that most gauss weapons have approximately the same number of barrels as shots, in which case it will be awful at 70 points pretty much irrespective of anything else. I mean, let me put it like this: to be as good as eradicators at killing a knight at full range, they would need to be flat 5 damage, to be as good at half range they'd need to be 6 damage, and to be worth 75% more points, you're looking at a S16 AP-4 D8 shot. Look at the model - do you ever expect GW to make that gun S16 with flat 8 damage? Let alone giving it equivalent stats of T5 W9 A8 + charge defence to even match the hardiness. So, we're realistically hoping for 2 shots, in which case they're still much less point efficient than Eradicators. I dunno, the Gauss Destructor at 70 points seems totally DOA to me, I can't even think of how they could make the model tough OR shooty enough to compete. If heavy gauss cannon can't compete at 37 points, doubling the cost of the model makes everything so much worse.

That means my hopes rest on the Emnitic Exterminator. Given the Skorptekh Lord's statline and the obvious push of blast weapons in this edition, we can almost certainly determine it'll also be blast. My best optimistic guess would be like 24" 3D3 S7 AP-2 D2 blast - if so, it's still too squishy, but that would be better shooting than 2 destroyers. My pessimistic guess would be 24" 3D3 S6 AP-1 D2 blast, making it almost unplayable. Who knows.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I haven't been really seriously considering the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer at all, because I don't expect them to be good. For 70 points, presuming the destroyer stats are still T5 W3 3+, you'd have to do something quite spectacularly overpowered to be worth taking and I don't see that they will. Maybe it'll get T6 W4 or something but given the Indomitus Necrons have ranged from meh (Skorptekhs, Plasmancer, Overlord change) to quite genuinely awful (the reanimator), I'll hold judgement for when we know whether we're hosed for another few years again or not.

Eh, I think that's a pessimistic outlook. I agree that the Emnitic gun is potentially going to be the most interesting, but who knows. Maybe we also get a shoot twice ability?

And again, Eradicators are ludicrous. Trying to balance our new stuff against them is pointless. Balance against what most army's anti-tank output is, because Eradicators are too cheap and powerful (and amusingly terrible against necron vehicles).

Eradicators will also suffer from Destroyer syndrome - they get one round of shooting and then get smoked off the board.

I wouldn't worry to much about our balance until we know more. All the playtesters have been subtly hinting that Necrons are getting the fixes we need. Just be patient, let marines have their silly melta man.

The rules for the Convergence of Dominion, our fortification network and others, are up on the WHC site.







Each Starsteles also gives +2 ld to Necrons within 6"

Unless they are free or there is more those are hot trash. I mean, who cared about leadership, especially in the MSU edition anyway, and that damage output is embarrassing. For a civilization with the power to destroy or enslave their Gods, the ability to create or snuff out entire star systems and with a name like transdimensional abductor, those are terrible lol.

Meanwhile the starcraft Mary Sue fort an apparently shoot at everything it can draw a bead on with 4 times as many guns lol.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Unless they are free or there is more those are hot trash. I mean, who cared about leadership, especially in the MSU edition anyway, and that damage output is embarrassing. For a civilization with the power to destroy or enslave their Gods, the ability to create or snuff out entire star systems and with a name like transdimensional abductor, those are terrible lol.

Meanwhile the starcraft Mary Sue fort an apparently shoot at everything it can draw a bead on with 4 times as many guns lol.

Its funny how necrons seem to be scared of any gun with a range greater then 24 inches. I think we can count the number of guns we have with a range greater then this on 1 hand lol, I get they are pushing us to be a mobile gunline but 12 inches is pistol range and makes the gauss reaper range seem more viable

The only thing that might redeem this model is quantum shielding and T 7 3+ to make them very tough as otherwise there short range will make them unviable and meltarifles are just gonna laugh at it

The only question I have regarding the new Mary sue fort is accuracy, it makes it out to be automated defenses so is it gonna be hitting on 4+ (with some rule if say a guy goes inside to hit on 3+)

Yeah they need to be hilariously cheap to be usable me thinks.

Leadership buff ain't bad, because I still don't think Necrons can be playing MSU. But yeah, underwhelming. I'll just keep Immortal Pride thanks GW.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Yeah they need to be hilariously cheap to be usable me thinks.

Leadership buff ain't bad, because I still don't think Necrons can be playing MSU. But yeah, underwhelming. I'll just keep Immortal Pride thanks GW.

You could deep strike 20 flayed ones, and zap up one of these to make them ld 12 and shoot some things that need shooting

But d3 S4 shots won’t kill much.

It kills about half an Intercessor on average.

But what do Flayed Ones really care about being leadership 12? They drop in charge, hopefully kill something and then get muclhed.

The fact it takes a full turn to warp up is ludicrous too. Again, our super advanced teleporting is functionally worse than just dropping gak from orbit.

I've been super positive and look on the bright side so far, but this is pretty whack, especially when shown alongside that ridiculous marine bunker.

Yeah unless this thing is so ridiculously cheap that it justifies itself as a LOS blocker I don't see any purpose to it. Weak gun and weak special rule. How much of the power budget for this thing went into just being able to move it?

I'll be honest, if it's cheap, I can see a super cheese tactic in literally using it as a teleporting wall to stop enemies moving forwards. I hate it, but that's how it's gonna see use, if at all.

Teleport onto an objective, you can't hold it but you force the enemy to come within shooting range of your weak ass gun to get it.

If they're 25 pts each and reasonably tough....maybe. And they're gonna be more expensive than that.

Sigh, I wouldn't even care about marines getting something super good and better than us, but why does our thing have to be actively bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eyjio wrote:
I'll be honest, if it's cheap, I can see a super cheese tactic in literally using it as a teleporting wall to stop enemies moving forwards. I hate it, but that's how it's gonna see use, if at all.

You'd need three crypteks to do it... and they'd have a turn to spot what you were doing and react... and you'd have to teleport them 9" away from any enemy models. Honestly, the best way to move these is with the deceiver. You could build your wall turn 1 then. That might be funny.

Yeah the gun should've been at least Str 5, 6 would be nice but Str 5 would really scare elite infantry. At Str 4 it can fight old marines and basic primaris but the more elite primaris don't need to worry too much about it

Eh, maybe there will be a strat to teleport a unit to them ala the Monolith. I dunno. I wish they'd stop pairing our reveals with marine stuff, it just makes everything we get look bad lol.

Yeah this terrain piece annoys me haha. It’s hard to say anything good about these. I guess the -3AP and 3D is nice, if any of the Measly shots even wound a target that needs to take that dmg, and people are dumb enough to move it within 12”.
Man, why is the teleporting the worst in the game? We are the most advanced race in the galaxy! Space Marines have standard issue weapons better than our constructs!

Meh, it's some cool necron themed terrain, that's how I'm looking at it. If they'd just released these as terrain with no rules, I'd be super happy so I'm just ignoring the (presumably) bad rules.

There may be something we don't know about them.

Anyway, everyone get their pre-orders sorted? I got my set, and the guy I'm getting more necrons off got his.

Well ended up with 3 sets of necrons from big box.hopefully melee destroyers in book can be fielded in 5 strong mobs. Going to have plenty of melee models available with 12 wraiths and 10 lychguard already.

tneva82 wrote:
Well ended up with 3 sets of necrons from big box.hopefully melee destroyers in book can be fielded in 5 strong mobs. Going to have plenty of melee models available with 12 wraiths and 10 lychguard already.

Nice one. Yeah I'm positive it'll be a 6 unit limit on the destroyers (9 would be too much).

Until we get our new book, I actually think Novokh necrons might be our strongest build. Sautekh got hit hard by new rules for heavy weapons and stacking pluses to hit. Nihilakh requires sitting still, but new cover rules are super opposed to that. Nephrek could be decent too for getting early board control. Mephrit is still a trap, but could have use if you build for it.

My main hope is that full units can all take the Reap-blades with Destroyers. Threshers are OK, but it's all about the big chunky swords.

6 is giving too many disadvantages so i'm sticking with 5.

As for dynasty have played nephrekh from the start and will not change. Even melee elements can benefit and melee destroyers have rr1 so only losing on rr2's. Here's hoping there will be way to advance and charge them.

Btw did airwing go? Getting 3 doom scythe for stratagem harder?

tneva82 wrote:
6 is giving too many disadvantages so i'm sticking with 5.

As for dynasty have played nephrekh from the start and will not change. Even melee elements can benefit and melee destroyers have rr1 so only losing on rr2's. Here's hoping there will be way to advance and charge them.

Btw did airwing go? Getting 3 doom scythe for stratagem harder?

Yes airwing is a thing of the past. You have to take at least two Patrols to play the stratagem now (Patrol grants 0-2 Flyer slots) . I'm pretty sure this stratagem will change (or even disappear) in our next codex though.

Well free bat and aux or patrol. Aux has no hq troop tax.

If stratagem goes then better buff them as without stratagem not good flyers.

Shaelinith wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
6 is giving too many disadvantages so i'm sticking with 5.

As for dynasty have played nephrekh from the start and will not change. Even melee elements can benefit and melee destroyers have rr1 so only losing on rr2's. Here's hoping there will be way to advance and charge them.

Btw did airwing go? Getting 3 doom scythe for stratagem harder?

Yes airwing is a thing of the past. You have to take at least two Patrols to play the stratagem now (Patrol grant 0-2 Flyer slots) . I'm pretty sure this stratagem will change (or even disappear) in our next codex though.

People are really overselling the negatives of 6 man infantry squads. Blast gets min 3 shots, but this only raises the average a tiny bit. Can't spread out as much, but again, meh. Can easily get all six into combat due to big bases for two ranks fighting.

I’m going The new Szarekhan Dynasty just cos the scheme is super cool, but I do hope they’ll get more to their army rule than just denying psychic stuff.

IanVanCheese wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
6 is giving too many disadvantages so i'm sticking with 5.

As for dynasty have played nephrekh from the start and will not change. Even melee elements can benefit and melee destroyers have rr1 so only losing on rr2's. Here's hoping there will be way to advance and charge them.

Btw did airwing go? Getting 3 doom scythe for stratagem harder?

Yes airwing is a thing of the past. You have to take at least two Patrols to play the stratagem now (Patrol grant 0-2 Flyer slots) . I'm pretty sure this stratagem will change (or even disappear) in our next codex though.

People are really overselling the negatives of 6 man infantry squads. Blast gets min 3 shots, but this only raises the average a tiny bit. Can't spread out as much, but again, meh. Can easily get all six into combat due to big bases for two ranks fighting.

I face plenty of d3 shots that gets max shots. 50% buff. And there's no real benefit for 6th to compensate for drawbacks

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
6 is giving too many disadvantages so i'm sticking with 5.

As for dynasty have played nephrekh from the start and will not change. Even melee elements can benefit and melee destroyers have rr1 so only losing on rr2's. Here's hoping there will be way to advance and charge them.

Btw did airwing go? Getting 3 doom scythe for stratagem harder?

Yes airwing is a thing of the past. You have to take at least two Patrols to play the stratagem now (Patrol grant 0-2 Flyer slots) . I'm pretty sure this stratagem will change (or even disappear) in our next codex though.

People are really overselling the negatives of 6 man infantry squads. Blast gets min 3 shots, but this only raises the average a tiny bit. Can't spread out as much, but again, meh. Can easily get all six into combat due to big bases for two ranks fighting.

I face plenty of d3 shots that gets max shots. 50% buff. And there's no real benefit for 6th to compensate for drawbacks

RP and maximising strats is enough reason for me, but fair enough. You're also gonna miss out on the plasmacyte too.

So are Skorpekh Destroyers our hardest hitting melee unit right now? All things being equal and not worrying about delivery into combat do they outperform 10 Scytheguard if the unit size in the codex does get bumped to 6 + the plasmacyte?

9th is all about killing Primeris MEQ, mid field. Skorpekh are tailor made for that. I already have 18 ordered. :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
9th is all about killing Primeris MEQ, mid field. Skorpekh are tailor made for that. I already have 18 ordered. :-p

This isn't really true from what we have seen so far. 9th is all about the primary objectives, and holding them successfully.

Powerful and Durable units look to be a must, and it looks like there is going to be a vehicle meta. If the leaked points are true, I don't even think Primaris are going to be top dog anymore.

That being said, the Skorpekhs as they are now seem like an excellent unit. They pretty much butcher anything in CC and they are fast.

 Sasori wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
9th is all about killing Primeris MEQ, mid field. Skorpekh are tailor made for that. I already have 18 ordered. :-p

This isn't really true from what we have seen so far. 9th is all about the primary objectives, and holding them successfully.

Powerful and Durable units look to be a must, and it looks like there is going to be a vehicle meta. If the leaked points are true, I don't even think Primaris are going to be top dog anymore.

That being said, the Skorpekhs as they are now seem like an excellent unit. They pretty much butcher anything in CC and they are fast.

Watching some of the more competitive players games thus far in 9th... I'd say we're both right. Ten-man, Veteran Strat, Transhuman Strat, Primeris will be EVERYWHERE, holding those exact objectives far to well for their points. On paper, our chonky-scorpy-bois will then proceed to take said objectives. ;-)

IanVanCheese wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
6 is giving too many disadvantages so i'm sticking with 5.

As for dynasty have played nephrekh from the start and will not change. Even melee elements can benefit and melee destroyers have rr1 so only losing on rr2's. Here's hoping there will be way to advance and charge them.

Btw did airwing go? Getting 3 doom scythe for stratagem harder?

Yes airwing is a thing of the past. You have to take at least two Patrols to play the stratagem now (Patrol grant 0-2 Flyer slots) . I'm pretty sure this stratagem will change (or even disappear) in our next codex though.

People are really overselling the negatives of 6 man infantry squads. Blast gets min 3 shots, but this only raises the average a tiny bit. Can't spread out as much, but again, meh. Can easily get all six into combat due to big bases for two ranks fighting.

Yeah I agree with you. Its still a 1/6 chance of your enemy getting 6 shots on a 6 man squad of guys the changes to blast make no difference to that, all that's changed it now there's a 1/2 chance of them getting at least 3 shots and we've lost 1/3 chance of 1-2 shots so if you think about it there's always been more chance of them rolling 3+ shots at a 2/3 chance.

More more scared of running a 11+ squad of warriors then a 6 man sqaud of Skorpekhs




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
So are Skorpekh Destroyers our hardest hitting melee unit right now? All things being equal and not worrying about delivery into combat do they outperform 10 Scytheguard if the unit size in the codex does get bumped to 6 + the plasmacyte?

I would argue that with the rerolls and plasmacyte they outperform for damage, but 10 scytheguard are more durable as they both have the same save at T5 3+ but scytheguard have more bodies so have more opportunity to roll for RP. One thing about scytheguard is that they have str 7 Ap -4 D 2 but they are slower then the Skorpekh destroyers

50% power boost is not that insignificant. If you disagree playing destroyer gun as heavy 2 shouldn' be problem eh?

Just a point I feel has been ignored thus far.

The Overlord's Relentless March [Aura] +1 to Normal Move and Advance for [Dynasty] Units in 6" stacks. This means if we sacrifice versatility of our HQs we can actually upgrade the movement of, say, Lychguard to 9" or 10" while potentially giving MWBD to more units since that rule is also no longer restrained to Infantry alone. Also potentially worth mentioning that Relentless March is also not restricted to infantry so it can propel Vehicles or Canoptics if we wanted that for some reason.

I haven't crunched the numbers but just saying, M10 WS2 Lychguard don't sound too shabby to me. If the Catacomb Command Barge has all the same abilities as the Overlord--as it has in prior editions--I could see that with Wraiths or the new Skorptekh being very silly.

DudzeExperiment wrote:
Just a point I feel has been ignored thus far.

The Overlord's Relentless March [Aura] +1 to Normal Move and Advance for [Dynasty] Units in 6" stacks. This means if we sacrifice versatility of our HQs we can actually upgrade the movement of, say, Lychguard to 9" or 10" while potentially giving MWBD to more units since that rule is also no longer restrained to Infantry alone. Also potentially worth mentioning that Relentless March is also not restricted to infantry so it can propel Vehicles or Canoptics if we wanted that for some reason.

I haven't crunched the numbers but just saying, M10 WS2 Lychguard don't sound too shabby to me. If the Catacomb Command Barge has all the same abilities as the Overlord--as it has in prior editions--I could see that with Wraiths or the new Skorptekh being very silly.

That's not quite right. In the core rulebook, the pdf download, under the DATASHEETS page and Aura subheading it specifically says "The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once)."

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

DudzeExperiment wrote:
Just a point I feel has been ignored thus far.

The Overlord's Relentless March [Aura] +1 to Normal Move and Advance for [Dynasty] Units in 6" stacks. This means if we sacrifice versatility of our HQs we can actually upgrade the movement of, say, Lychguard to 9" or 10" while potentially giving MWBD to more units since that rule is also no longer restrained to Infantry alone. Also potentially worth mentioning that Relentless March is also not restricted to infantry so it can propel Vehicles or Canoptics if we wanted that for some reason.

I haven't crunched the numbers but just saying, M10 WS2 Lychguard don't sound too shabby to me. If the Catacomb Command Barge has all the same abilities as the Overlord--as it has in prior editions--I could see that with Wraiths or the new Skorptekh being very silly.

That's not quite right. In the core rulebook, the pdf download, under the DATASHEETS page and Aura subheading it specifically says "The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once)."

Yea, that would be insane, there are a ton of +1 boost auras of various types.

Ah, my mistake then. I was confused by the Cryptek's Aura always specifying the Aura not stacking and the Rulebook's Modifying characteristics section allowing for cumulative effects. Oh well

 Sasori wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
9th is all about killing Primeris MEQ, mid field. Skorpekh are tailor made for that. I already have 18 ordered. :-p

This isn't really true from what we have seen so far. 9th is all about the primary objectives, and holding them successfully.

Powerful and Durable units look to be a must, and it looks like there is going to be a vehicle meta. If the leaked points are true, I don't even think Primaris are going to be top dog anymore.

That being said, the Skorpekhs as they are now seem like an excellent unit. They pretty much butcher anything in CC and they are fast.

I think it depends on how you look at it. Vehicles and tanks are better now, but a bunch of objective secured primaris will still hold an objective over a tank because they are obsec. If you can remove those obsec primaris, then yes, your tank can sit on and hold that objective. But the question is ... can you ? Primaris are pretty durable. I feel that Primaris suits the description of "powerful and durable" pretty well.

DudzeExperiment wrote:
Ah, my mistake then. I was confused by the Cryptek's Aura always specifying the Aura not stacking and the Rulebook's Modifying characteristics section allowing for cumulative effects. Oh well

Cool idea, though! Keep lookin’ out!

Yeah blast is scarier against big infantry blobs of 11+ but even then, it's not as bad as you'd first think. You hear 24 shots and gak your pants, but let's look at the Wyvern vs 10 man unit and 20 man unit.

Wyvern vs 10 warriors = Average of 14 shots. 7 Hits, 4.75 wounds, 2.37 dead warriors
Wyvern vs 20 warriors = 24 shots, 12 hits, 9 wounds, 4.5 dead warriors.

About 90% more kills, but consider the chunky cost increase that blast got, along with the disadvantages of being tagged, and also paired up with everyone's super insistence that MSU is the way to go, I just don't think we'll see that much blast out there. Yeah it's scary, but the increased points cost just costs them firepower elsewhere that would have made up that extra damage before. Also, remember that blast is only scary against the first 10 warriors killed, as soon as they drop to 10, blast goes back to min 3 shots.

With all that said, warrior blobs are still a bit meh for other reasons, but if they get the needed buffs in the codex, I think 20 man units could still have some great utility when it comes to board presence.

Szeras in Mephrit with Merciless Tyrant WT seems like a pretty scary prospect for opposing characters.

sieGermans wrote:
Szeras in Mephrit with Merciless Tyrant WT seems like a pretty scary prospect for opposing characters.

Read the necron codex pg. 117. Szeras warlord trait is immortal pride, you cant choose anything else for him. Named character usually have a preset warlord trait, across all factions.

Anyway, szeras is bad. He has two useless abilities, his augmentation is only good 2/3 times. He isnt tough, so he needs two cryptothralls next to him, further increasing his point costs, and they dont protect him from melee attacks. He would need four to surround him. He is a master technomancer, but only has 3" range, like any other cryptek, he should have 6". The canoptek reanimator has 9" range (but only one unit).

 p5freak wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
Szeras in Mephrit with Merciless Tyrant WT seems like a pretty scary prospect for opposing characters.

Read the necron codex pg. 117. Szeras warlord trait is immortal pride, you cant choose anything else for him. Named character usually have a preset warlord trait, across all factions.

Ah, interesting. I read over the new Pariah datasheet and didn’t see it mentioned.

sieGermans wrote:

Ah, interesting. I read over the new Pariah datasheet and didn’t see it mentioned.

Warlord traits are never mentioned on a datasheet, they are in codexes.

Do we know if a skorpekh destroyer is killed by the plasmacyte can it be reanimated?

punisher357 wrote:
Do we know if a skorpekh destroyer is killed by the plasmacyte can it be reanimated?

Yeah, same as any dead model.

Striking Scop reading off the new 9th Necron Points.

https://youtu.be/cQY932e6hN4?t=721

Initial impression

Characters generally cheap.

Immortal's at 18 points are a tad more than I would like. Maybe they get a rule/stat buff in the codex.

Wraiths go up a trivial 7% points increase so they seem like winners.

Doomsday Arks dodged a bullet only going up by 20points.

New codex/rules around the corner so hard to say.

New points. Anything not listed in the wargear section is 0pts now.



Immortas to 18 stings, I was hoping for 17 tops. They're 2pts less than an intercessor now. That's too much. GW clearly wants us to go warriors.

DDAs went to 180 as I'd hoped. Still the GOAT.
HQs basically didn't move or slight increases, especially once you factor in a lot of wargear being 0pts now.
Stalker went up a tad but still seems like a beast to me.
Monolith went DOWN 30pts. Still trash.
T vault went down. Interesting
Lychguard to 30pts stings me, but consider how good holding a point on the board is about to be, I guess it might be fair.
Ghost Ark to 140pts seems steep, especially when you consider the Tau Devilfish went down to 75pts. Maybe due to changes in RP that are coming, it might become beast.

At least the Obelisk got a 40pts increase, that thing was OP and needed nerfing imo.

EDIT: Tomb Blades seem like big winners here. 35 pts with Shieldvanes. that's cheaper than 2 immortals for same wounds/guns/save but with fly and -1 to hit, and now they can be MWBD.
Wraiths particle casters are free now, so everyone dig those out of your bits boxes.

Everything else basically didn't move, especially once you factor in wargear

The new stuff weren't there?

Oof Lychguard at 30 ppm is gonna be rough.

Unless our Night Scythe/ Monolith delivery system is getting a complete rework I'm not confident enough in my skills to field Scytheguard and get a meaningful return.

10 Sword n Board however, given the focus 9th has on durability and the 3++ shield stratagem, if it still exists, seem like a real thorn for the opposition. I'm imagining pairing them with an Overlord + Nephrekh giving them 12" pseudo fly movement onto objectives.

Edit: Res orbs at 20 is kinda yuck if RP hasn't changed.

IanVanCheese wrote:

Immortas to 18 stings, I was hoping for 17 tops. They're 2pts less than an intercessor now. That's too much. GW clearly wants us to go warriors.

DDAs went to 180 as I'd hoped. Still the GOAT.
HQs basically didn't move or slight increases, especially once you factor in a lot of wargear being 0pts now.
Stalker went up a tad but still seems like a beast to me.
Monolith went DOWN 30pts. Still trash.
T vault went down. Interesting
Lychguard to 30pts stings me, but consider how good holding a point on the board is about to be, I guess it might be fair.
Ghost Ark to 140pts seems steep, especially when you consider the Tau Devilfish went down to 75pts. Maybe due to changes in RP that are coming, it might become beast.

At least the Obelisk got a 40pts increase, that thing was OP and needed nerfing imo.

EDIT: Tomb Blades seem like big winners here. 35 pts with Shieldvanes. that's cheaper than 2 immortals for same wounds/guns/save but with fly and -1 to hit, and now they can be MWBD.
Wraiths particle casters are free now, so everyone dig those out of your bits boxes.

Everything else basically didn't move, especially once you factor in wargear

Things that catched my eye :

Praetorian at 23 (either loadout) are not bad. They are tough, fearless, are correct in close combat for the voidblade variant. Compared to a 18 pts Immortal (what are they smoking seriously), for 5 point more you are MUCH more tanky. I think i've found my objective grabbers of 9th.
As you said Wraiths with particle beamer are pretty good too. Intesting fact, Wraiths with Coils actually go down in points. Still won't play it though.

Heavy Destroyers are still pretty cheap at 40.

Res Orb are still 20 pts. If RP is much better, it could become an autobuy.

Deceiver and Nightbringer are pretty much the same and i used to play them at the end. Nightbringer especially with the news shooting in melee could be scary.

Anrakyr goes DOWN in points. At 130 pts, he could become interesting to push mid board with Praetorian, Skorpekh, etc...

Funnily the Spyder don't seems to be on the listing, as both video i saw about points completly missed it.

tneva82 wrote:
The new stuff weren't there?

They are the same as the previous leak

Canoptek Doom Stalker 130
Canoptek Reanimator 110
Cryptothralls 20
Lokhust Heavy Destroyer 70
Plasmancer 80
Royal Warden 80
Skorpekh Destroyers 40
Plasmascythe 15
Skorpekh Lord 130

Shaelinith wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Immortas to 18 stings, I was hoping for 17 tops. They're 2pts less than an intercessor now. That's too much. GW clearly wants us to go warriors.

DDAs went to 180 as I'd hoped. Still the GOAT.
HQs basically didn't move or slight increases, especially once you factor in a lot of wargear being 0pts now.
Stalker went up a tad but still seems like a beast to me.
Monolith went DOWN 30pts. Still trash.
T vault went down. Interesting
Lychguard to 30pts stings me, but consider how good holding a point on the board is about to be, I guess it might be fair.
Ghost Ark to 140pts seems steep, especially when you consider the Tau Devilfish went down to 75pts. Maybe due to changes in RP that are coming, it might become beast.

At least the Obelisk got a 40pts increase, that thing was OP and needed nerfing imo.

EDIT: Tomb Blades seem like big winners here. 35 pts with Shieldvanes. that's cheaper than 2 immortals for same wounds/guns/save but with fly and -1 to hit, and now they can be MWBD.
Wraiths particle casters are free now, so everyone dig those out of your bits boxes.

Everything else basically didn't move, especially once you factor in wargear

Things that catched my eye :

Praetorian at 23 (either loadout) are not bad. They are tough, fearless, are correct in close combat for the voidblade variant. Compared to a 18 pts Immortal (what are they smoking seriously), for 5 point more you are MUCH more tanky. I think i've found my objective grabbers of 9th.
As you said Wraiths with particle beamer are pretty good too. Intesting fact, Wraiths with Coils actually go down in points. Still won't play it though.

Heavy Destroyers are still pretty cheap at 40.

Res Orb are still 20 pts. If RP is much better, it could become an autobuy.

Deceiver and Nightbringer are pretty much the same and i used to play them at the end. Nightbringer especially with the news shooting in melee could be scary.

Anrakyr goes DOWN in points. At 130 pts, he could become interesting to push mid board with Praetorian, Skorpekh, etc...

Funnily the Spyder don't seems to be on the listing, as both video i saw about points completly missed it.

No one cares about the Spyder, it sucks so much even the CA team forgot it exists.

New stuff points already out in the wild, the leaks were correct for the most part (scarabs going up to 15 not withstanding).

Praetorians could be interesting, I agree. They were before at 20ppm, but now the relative increase for immortals makes them even better. Good spot on Anrykyr, I think I'll be converting him up to join my Lychguard, really claim that mid-board. Also he's an easy conversion from that new Overlord model, which I shall have a spare of.

I think for now (it's only gonna be a month) we're just looking at 3 x 5 man immortal squads and then pumping points into Tomb Blades/Lychguard/Praetorians/Wraiths.

One thing I have been wondering is with Warriors getting the reroll 1s what if immortals say get reroll everything? All it would do really is match their names which to be fair for a unit called immortals they aren't all that survivable.

They've reworked scarabs and warriors so immortals could be getting a new rule as well

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
One thing I have been wondering is with Warriors getting the reroll 1s what if immortals say get reroll everything? All it would do really is match their names which to be fair for a unit called immortals they aren't all that survivable.

They've reworked scarabs and warriors so immortals could be getting a new rule as well

I doubt it, warriors and scarabs got new models. Every necron player on earth already has a bulk of Immortals. I think they're moving into a niche, they want warriors to be our main troops now (and I think they'll get their wish come the new codex).

A) immortals didn't get new model. Less likely datasheet change thus
B) if squad dies no more rp. 10 wounds not that hard.

We have also seen indomitus box datasheets. No immortals. If codex brings change points could just as well go up as well

Looks like silver tide is back on the menu boys.

In all seriousness, these changes are almost certainly going to last for a month, but stuff that isn't getting a new model is likely to be in a similar spot. Army rules could change what is viable/good though, especially changes to RP.

With only a 10pts increase, I'm still convinced that the heat ray stalker is the finest value in town at 125pts. Triarch units becoming good, just as the Silent King rocks up, what a coincidence.

It's not as bad as other xenos were hit, but considering Space Marines got lower point increases, it's not much to talk about. Still very much a bad army until the new codex arrives unfortunately, nothing here saves that. Tesla Immortals still the most cost effective troop, Doomsday Ark still the most effective AT, overlord still the best HQ, etc. Lychguard got nerfs which make them pretty much unplayable, for reasons beyond my fathoming, but whatever. The Obelisk going up 40 points is actually hilarious, it's as if GW regrets its existence.

I get the distinct impression that GW didn't expect Indomitus to sell as fast as it did - all the units in that box are VERY aggressively priced for both Necrons and especially SM. Well, all except the reanimator, that thing still sucks.

I wonder why we have points for new non-Indomitus units like the Doomstalker but not the Silent King or Void Dragon.

Uuf. Tesseract ark went up by 50. Was considering getting 2 as seems useful for 9th.

Well still waiting for new book to see if rules got any nerfs as well

cwanderson wrote:
I wonder why we have points for new non-Indomitus units like the Doomstalker but not the Silent King or Void Dragon.

I'm guessing because they're coming out first wave... maybe even before the codex.


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Eyjio wrote:
Lychguard got nerfs which make them pretty much unplayable, for reasons beyond my fathoming, but whatever.

Hard disagree here. In a game of taking and holding objectives, these dudes are king.

tneva82 wrote:
Uuf. Tesseract ark went up by 50. Was considering getting 2 as seems useful for 9th.

Well still waiting for new book to see if rules got any nerfs as well

It only net went up by 20 since Gauss Cannons went down.

We got by pretty good with most of our points, but it's very likely to be a moot point in a month or so.


I think we are seeing the DDS and Lokhust because they are likely coming in a start collecting and/or starter set soon. We do have that one picture which really looks like a Necron Start collecting floating around.

Other things worth mentionning, some of the worst increased for our units (above 15%) :

Annihilation Barge with Gauss Cannon had a 20pts (20%) increase, because they were obviously too strong and the changes to Fly make them better now /s

Nightscythe had a 17,39% increase,again, so strong.

Ghost Ark had a 16,67% increase, But they still are 14 wounds, sot 10pt per T6 4+ wound making them cheaper than warriors. I will probably try units of 10 warriors in Ghost Arks.

The twin heavy gauss cannon of the Triach Stalker had a 10 pt increase because ... reasons where other guns stayed the same. Heat Ray is now my best friend.

Taking a Lord with a voidblade is no more interesting. All of the weapon options are now 0 points.
I strongly thinks we will lose Voidblades and Hyperphase sword on all the characters as there is no model for them.

Any word on the Seraptek? I'm praying it didn't get any more expensive.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Any word on the Seraptek? I'm praying it didn't get any more expensive.

Up to 660.

 Sasori wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Any word on the Seraptek? I'm praying it didn't get any more expensive.

Up to 660.

Thank you.
Also

WHY GOD?! WHY?!

Well hike is less than average so it actually improved

IanVanCheese wrote:
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Eyjio wrote:
Lychguard got nerfs which make them pretty much unplayable, for reasons beyond my fathoming, but whatever.

Hard disagree here. In a game of taking and holding objectives, these dudes are king.

Lychguard = T5 W2 3+/4++ = 15 points per wound
Wraiths = T5 W3 4+/3++ = 15 points per wound

Wraiths usually have a better save, much better movement, can fall back without penalty, can move through anything without issue. I don't see any argument for Lychguard honestly. They might be usable but I doubt they're anywhere close to optimal.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Any word on the Seraptek? I'm praying it didn't get any more expensive.

Up to 660.

Thank you.
Also

WHY GOD?! WHY?!

You have to look at it in context, it actually hardly moved compared to most other large models. I actually think it's more viable, but who knows.

It seems like the new new heavy destroyer isn't a direct replacement but just a heavier version which is interesting. Unless the codex drops the originals. That's kind of the awkward position we are in ATM, the new book is only a couple months out at most which makes all this kind of worthless really. Half or all our resin might evaporate upon release of the new book for example.

Eyjio wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eyjio wrote:
Lychguard got nerfs which make them pretty much unplayable, for reasons beyond my fathoming, but whatever.

Hard disagree here. In a game of taking and holding objectives, these dudes are king.

Lychguard = T5 W2 3+/4++ = 15 points per wound
Wraiths = T5 W3 4+/3++ = 15 points per wound

Wraiths usually have a better save, much better movement, can fall back without penalty, can move through anything without issue. I don't see any argument for Lychguard honestly. They might be usable but I doubt they're anywhere close to optimal.

Reanimation (one of the few units tanky enough to reliably use it), higher maximum wound count per unit (important if someone needs to shift you), infantry so can benefit from cover, can cover our squishy characters from snipers.

I will admit though, wraiths are also excellent (and free pistols now, woooo).

Ultimately, while similar on paper, they do different jobs. Wraiths harrass enemy objectives and tag stuff, lychguard hold mid-board.

Also Lychguard do the most valuable thing of all... they don't take up a fast attack slot.

Eyjio wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eyjio wrote:
Lychguard got nerfs which make them pretty much unplayable, for reasons beyond my fathoming, but whatever.

Hard disagree here. In a game of taking and holding objectives, these dudes are king.

Lychguard = T5 W2 3+/4++ = 15 points per wound
Wraiths = T5 W3 4+/3++ = 15 points per wound

Wraiths usually have a better save, much better movement, can fall back without penalty, can move through anything without issue. I don't see any argument for Lychguard honestly. They might be usable but I doubt they're anywhere close to optimal.

They still soak wounds for characters and reanimate but yea it isn't looking great, whats worse is if they make their weapon d3 damage with the new book like the overlords from the box.

So glad I just painted mine up finally At least I bought them for dirt cheap off ebay I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eyjio wrote:
Lychguard got nerfs which make them pretty much unplayable, for reasons beyond my fathoming, but whatever.

Hard disagree here. In a game of taking and holding objectives, these dudes are king.

Lychguard = T5 W2 3+/4++ = 15 points per wound
Wraiths = T5 W3 4+/3++ = 15 points per wound

Wraiths usually have a better save, much better movement, can fall back without penalty, can move through anything without issue. I don't see any argument for Lychguard honestly. They might be usable but I doubt they're anywhere close to optimal.

Reanimation (one of the few units tanky enough to reliably use it), higher maximum wound count per unit (important if someone needs to shift you), infantry so can benefit from cover, can cover our squishy characters from snipers.

I will admit though, wraiths are also excellent (and free pistols now, woooo).

Ultimately, while similar on paper, they do different jobs. Wraiths harrass enemy objectives and tag stuff, lychguard hold mid-board.

Also worth mentioning is the slots. Folks keep acting like slots are infinite when in 9th your actually going to run out and have to make a choice whether to spend CP on another.

FA seems competitive, I'd argue the comparison should be between lychguard and skorpeks not wraiths.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Also worth mentioning is the slots. Folks keep acting like slots are infinite when in 9th your actually going to run out and have to make a choice whether to spend CP on another.

FA seems competitive, I'd argue the comparison should be between lychguard and skorpeks not wraiths.

Even with the increase, at 15pts per model scarabs are absolutely nuts and my fast attack slots are going to them first and foremost. 135 pts for 36 flying wounds? Sign me up.

Yea and thats kind of my point. You competing with destroyers, tomb blades and scarabs when you consider wraiths. So if your looking to just squat on mid table it may be worth taking the lychguard since they are elites. That said, the skorpeks seem to be better then them as well. Lych guard need better rules, points aren't going to fix them IMO.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Also worth mentioning is the slots. Folks keep acting like slots are infinite when in 9th your actually going to run out and have to make a choice whether to spend CP on another.

FA seems competitive, I'd argue the comparison should be between lychguard and skorpeks not wraiths.

Even with the increase, at 15pts per model scarabs are absolutely nuts and my fast attack slots are going to them first and foremost. 135 pts for 36 flying wounds? Sign me up.

Yeah scarabs are a no brainer in a edition where holding points is key. They are so small that they can be out of LoS even with less than 5" terrain. They are still very effective at tagging vehicules with low rate of fire, having so many cheap wounds.
But they take a Fast Attack slot, and these will be highly contested. I still find Destroyers scary (even if they will need more care in placing them), Tomb Blades are definitively usable, and Wraith are so versatile.

I will probably play with two detachements before our codex arrive. I never used that much CP per turn anyway, 10 + 5 are higher than anything i ever had.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea and thats kind of my point. You competing with destroyers, tomb blades and scarabs when you consider wraiths. So if your looking to just squat on mid table it may be worth taking the lychguard since they are elites. That said, the skorpeks seem to be better then them as well. Lych guard need better rules, points aren't going to fix them IMO.

Skorpekhs are great at murdering stuff for sure, but they die if anyone looks at them funny. I think people are severely underestimating how important survivability is going to be.

You need to be able to move out into the board and hold it. Lychguard, wraiths, scarabs, Praetorians all excel at that in their own way and I think they'll be key. Skorpekhs will be good counter punch units though, they'll ruin anything that gets too close.

Of all the things I'm worried about when it comes to viability, I think it might be the DDA. Every other tank in the game gained the ability to move and shoot without penalty, where our main gun turns to mush if we move still.

And then all this chatter becomes moot in a month anyway. Sigh, the waiting and drip feed is killing me.


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Shaelinith wrote:
Yeah scarabs are a no brainer in a edition where holding points is key. They are so small that they can be out of LoS even with less than 5" terrain. They are still very effective at tagging vehicules with low rate of fire, having so many cheap wounds.
But they take a Fast Attack slot, and these will be highly contested. I still find Destroyers scary (even if they will need more care in placing them), Tomb Blades are definitively usable, and Wraith are so versatile.

I will probably play with two detachements before our codex arrive. I never used that much CP per turn anyway, 10 + 5 are higher than anything i ever had.

I think two detachments is going to be the way to go anyway. We're kinda hungry for HQ slots now too. We'll see how the new book shakes out with strats of course.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea and thats kind of my point. You competing with destroyers, tomb blades and scarabs when you consider wraiths. So if your looking to just squat on mid table it may be worth taking the lychguard since they are elites. That said, the skorpeks seem to be better then them as well. Lych guard need better rules, points aren't going to fix them IMO.

Skorpekhs are great at murdering stuff for sure, but they die if anyone looks at them funny. I think people are severely underestimating how important survivability is going to be.

You need to be able to move out into the board and hold it. Lychguard, wraiths, scarabs, Praetorians all excel at that in their own way and I think they'll be key. Skorpekhs will be good counter punch units though, they'll ruin anything that gets too close.

Of all the things I'm worried about when it comes to viability, I think it might be the DDA. Every other tank in the game gained the ability to move and shoot without penalty, where our main gun turns to mush if we move still.

And then all this chatter becomes moot in a month anyway. Sigh, the waiting and drip feed is killing me.

Im not underestimating it, I just don't find lychguard nearly as durable as you do is all. I like praetorians more, because at least they are fearless since your going to max these units if you want durability and they are much faster with fly. Lychguard pay through the nose for being the worst bodyguards ever lol. Persnoally I think lychguard and praets should be a 2+ save and hit on 2's in melee, but thats just me.

DDA will probably be replaced by the doomspyder or whatever it is called coming out. It will probably come 1-3 like spyders with the ability to spam it's gun more for cheaper. Thats kind of the spot we are in. Honestly these points are fun to look at, but ultimately worthless for planning since this crap was probably all determined prior to the new book being finalized. Or for all we know lychguard are 30ppm because in the new book they are nasty. I personally am just going to wait for the new book I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Probably take a battalion or specialist detachment with your warlord, then a patrol as the second detachment if you need it. This will go for most 9th armies.

 Red Corsair wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea and thats kind of my point. You competing with destroyers, tomb blades and scarabs when you consider wraiths. So if your looking to just squat on mid table it may be worth taking the lychguard since they are elites. That said, the skorpeks seem to be better then them as well. Lych guard need better rules, points aren't going to fix them IMO.

Skorpekhs are great at murdering stuff for sure, but they die if anyone looks at them funny. I think people are severely underestimating how important survivability is going to be.

You need to be able to move out into the board and hold it. Lychguard, wraiths, scarabs, Praetorians all excel at that in their own way and I think they'll be key. Skorpekhs will be good counter punch units though, they'll ruin anything that gets too close.

Of all the things I'm worried about when it comes to viability, I think it might be the DDA. Every other tank in the game gained the ability to move and shoot without penalty, where our main gun turns to mush if we move still.

And then all this chatter becomes moot in a month anyway. Sigh, the waiting and drip feed is killing me.

Im not underestimating it, I just don't find lychguard nearly as durable as you do is all. I like praetorians more, because at least they are fearless since your going to max these units if you want durability and they are much faster with fly. Lychguard pay through the nose for being the worst bodyguards ever lol. Persnoally I think lychguard and praets should be a 2+ save and hit on 2's in melee, but thats just me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Probably take a battalion or specialist detachment with your warlord, then a patrol as the second detachment if you need it. This will go for most 9th armies.

I agree a 2+ would be sweet, but get them in cover and they still shrug small arms fire. Since I started playing with them in the last year, I've never lost the full unit. Now, they haven't killed much either, but they'd soaked up stupid amount of firepower.

MWBD helps with the hitting on 3s. You can also use the Nihilkah strat to give them a 2+ save (or even a 2++ if you stack with hyperphase strat). Expensive in CP, but we have more CP now than ever before.

Now true, you can do that with wraiths too, but picture this. Wraiths on my opponents home objective with a 2++, lychguard in the mid board with a 3++. They have no good targets and a ton of problems.

yeah this is all pointless chatter now anyway, but what else have we got to do. We could laugh at Tau and GSC I suppose.

I play GSC, they got shafted beyond words lol.

My issue with lychguard is their slow. Tremor shells or the new adech stasis bomb make them statues for all intensive purposes.

I guess you could veil or deceiver them, but that's more points. I like units that work well on their own personally, I have more fun with synergy between units but I don't like requiring it on such a pricey unit.

They are cool though, and I think slow combat in 9th is just going to be used to squat on table points and create an "oh sh*t" zone of intimidation.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I play GSC, they got shafted beyond words lol.

My issue with lychguard is their slow. Tremor shells or the new adech stasis bomb make them statues for all intensive purposes.

I guess you could veil or deceiver them, but that's more points. I like units that work well on their own personally, I have more fun with synergy between units but I don't like requiring it on such a pricey unit.

They are cool though, and I think slow combat in 9th is just going to be used to squat on table points and create an "oh sh*t" zone of intimidation.

yeah you did, so unfair lol.

Yeah's that's kinda my plan with them. I've always used them with Deceiver, slam them on a mid-board objective and they great a bubble of "not going near that". Throw in Relentless March and msaller board sizes, I don't think they'll struggle to get where they need to be. I feel you on relying on other things to be good though.

IanVanCheese wrote:

I agree a 2+ would be sweet, but get them in cover and they still shrug small arms fire. Since I started playing with them in the last year, I've never lost the full unit. Now, they haven't killed much either, but they'd soaked up stupid amount of firepower.

I played a few times with the scythe version, and even then, they tanked like champs.

They are never the main focus for the opponent because they don't create an immediate threat, and in the end they tend to survive.
My last game i played a squad of 7, they crushed an Invictor Warsuit counter charging it trough a ruin, survived an ultramarines-guilliman-agressor squad (that HAD to split its fire to down a Doomscythe and deny the strat), reanimate some models with a res orb, Veil on the other side of the board (with MWBD) to charge and destroy a Whirlwind with Chronus inside, and died with a lot of intercessors on them, but draw all the backline of the UM to them giving me room on the other side to control the board abd win the game.

Granted there was a little luck, they should haved died to the agressors, but it was maybe a 25% chance to stay on the board.

Even if sometimes the luck won't be with you, they are still on the tanky side, and need a lot of firepower to be 100% sure to clean a squad in cover.

They obviously need support and some other threats and are not the first unit i'll put on a list, but they can find a niche role in some cases. I still find them too expensive and they still lack something, but i find them playable.

Shaelinith wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

I agree a 2+ would be sweet, but get them in cover and they still shrug small arms fire. Since I started playing with them in the last year, I've never lost the full unit. Now, they haven't killed much either, but they'd soaked up stupid amount of firepower.

I played a few times with the scythe version, and even then, they tanked like champs.

They are never the main focus for the opponent because they don't create an immediate threat, and in the end they tend to survive.
My last game i played a squad of 7, they crushed an Invictor Warsuit counter charging it trough a ruin, survived an ultramarines-guilliman-agressor squad (that HAD to split its fire to down a Doomscythe and deny the strat), reanimate some models with a res orb, Veil on the other side of the board (with MWBD) to charge and destroy a Whirlwind with Chronus inside, and died with a lot of intercessors on them, but draw all the backline of the UM to them giving me room on the other side to control the board abd win the game.

Granted there was a little luck, they should haved died to the agressors, but it was maybe a 25% chance to stay on the board.

Even if sometimes the luck won't be with you, they are still on the tanky side, and need a lot of firepower to be 100% sure to clean a squad in cover.

They obviously need support and some other threats and are not the first unit i'll put on a list, but they can find a niche role in some cases. I still find them too expensive and they still lack something, but i find them playable.

Tthey can do work, but yeah, you got lucky with some of that. I don't see a place for scytheguard anymore - Skorpekhs have really eaten their lunch. To be fair, I never saw much of a home for Scytheguard, too squishy for a slight damage output increase, but they'd never survive to deal the damage (outside Veil and hope charges). Shieldguard interest me for their staying power though.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Tthey can do work, but yeah, you got lucky with some of that. I don't see a place for scytheguard anymore - Skorpekhs have really eaten their lunch. To be fair, I never saw much of a home for Scytheguard, too squishy for a slight damage output increase, but they'd never survive to deal the damage (outside Veil and hope charges). Shieldguard interest me for their staying power though.

They were here for only one thing, after playing some games with a very agressive (pure) Thousand Sons player, i found myself needing something to have counter charge power to make the Daemon Princes think twice about charging everywhere.
After that, i knew i would be playing against Invictor Warsuits, and of all of our roster, Scytheguard was actually quite point efficient to down them in one turn so i decided to try them.

But i agree, skorpekh will probably be better for that kind of job, needing less support, having more mobility.

If it's true that all the FW weapons have dropped mostly to,zero, then my Heat Cannon Sentry Pylons went from 70(base) + 75(heat Cannon) = 145, to 80!!!!!!!

My 9 Sentry Pylons are gonna be VERY happy!!!
Very sad to see my Scarabs going up to 15, but that added wound and auto wounds are worth it!!

3x3 Sentry Pylons = 720
3x9 Scarabs = 405
Destroyer Lord with Pylactary, Warcythe, and Necroscarab Casket = 120
3x3 Tomb Spyders with Fabricator claw, Gloom Prisim, Particle Beamer = 630
Total: 1775!!! That's DOWN from 2406.
The list I've been building for years just dropped by 631 points!
There's room for 20 Warriors!!!
That bring it to 1995!!!!

I think Tesla will become 3 hit on non-modified roll of 6 in our codex seeing how in the Admech FAQ all the similars rules for Electro Priests and Taser weapon were changed.

Shaelinith wrote:
I think Tesla will become 3 hit on non-modified roll of 6 in our codex seeing how in the Admech FAQ all the similars rules for Electro Priests and Taser weapon were changed.

Good spot. I'm assuming the only reason we dodged this fate already is the incoming new codex.

It's a nerf overall, but it does mean we can advance our immortal with less penalty. Immortals really eating a barrel full of gak with today's news.

I'm not convinced it's a huge nerf given the change to MWBD. It would be frustrating if the new Overlord could still only use it on infantry, but being allowed to use it on vehicles I presume I'll almost always prefer buffing those, which means that the change is good, as -1 modifiers become much less impactful. Then again, it's GW so maybe Gauss Blasters will become rapid fire 2 and we'll all need to switch guns anyway.

Wow, the FAQ totally fixed Tomb World deployment. Our Nightscythes and Monoliths are amazing now...

Eyjio wrote:
I'm not convinced it's a huge nerf given the change to MWBD. It would be frustrating if the new Overlord could still only use it on infantry, but being allowed to use it on vehicles I presume I'll almost always prefer buffing those, which means that the change is good, as -1 modifiers become much less impactful. Then again, it's GW so maybe Gauss Blasters will become rapid fire 2 and we'll all need to switch guns anyway.

The overseer has a relic blaster that IS rapid fire 2 and I was already secretly hoping that was the new profile. His is damage 2, but that is in line with all the marine relic/master craft items, they go up on damage not shots.

Honestly, that would make gauss blasters much healthier. though it would make my tomb blades (9 with guass) absolutely monstrous

Heck, I would be able to field the 10 guass immortals I already have without feeling like I'm missing out.

Tesla could get another buff, like ignoring hit mods and or cover (it's fething lightning)

 Red Corsair wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
I'm not convinced it's a huge nerf given the change to MWBD. It would be frustrating if the new Overlord could still only use it on infantry, but being allowed to use it on vehicles I presume I'll almost always prefer buffing those, which means that the change is good, as -1 modifiers become much less impactful. Then again, it's GW so maybe Gauss Blasters will become rapid fire 2 and we'll all need to switch guns anyway.

The overseer has a relic blaster that IS rapid fire 2 and I was already secretly hoping that was the new profile. His is damage 2, but that is in line with all the marine relic/master craft items, they go up on damage not shots.

Honestly, that would make gauss blasters much healthier. though it would make my tomb blades (9 with guass) absolutely monstrous

Heck, I would be able to field the 10 guass immortals I already have without feeling like I'm missing out.

Tesla could get another buff, like ignoring hit mods and or cover (it's fething lightning)

That would be very tasty.

It would make a ton of sense to me which is why I suggested it, but it would also make Warriors even more pointless. Still, we'll see. I feel... hopeful? Not used to that with my Necrons. Really hoping reanimation is worth something this time around, watched the Necron VS Guard 9e game on tabletop titans last night and there was a hint that they might be overtweaked, as they said everything might be good. That worries me a little, I remember feeling terrible in 7e about destroying people in casual games, but it'll be so nice to win again.

Indomitus going made to order is interesting, definitely confirms what I was thinking about them wanting to push it and means I can probably actually get a copy which is good. Shows some PR awareness too, they must have known that the outrage was massive and they now get to sell however many they want, so win-win.

From the Necron FAQ

"*Page 98 – Monolith, Abilities, Eternity Gate
Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read:
‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and
not within Engagement Range of any enemy units ; the unit
that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a
Transport for all rules purposes.’

*Page 98 – Monolith, Abilities, Floating Fortress
Delete this ability.

*Page 102 – Night Scythe, Abilities, Invasion Beams
Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read:
‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and
not within Engagement Range of any enemy units ; the unit
that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a
Transport for all rules purposes.’

*Page 110 – Stratagems, Emergency Invasion Beam, rules text
Add the following:
‘Units set up with this Stratagem can be set up during the first
battle round, regardless of any mission rules.’"

Interesting. Works even on first turn.

Asymmetric wrote:
From the Necron FAQ

"*Page 98 – Monolith, Abilities, Eternity Gate
Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read:
‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and
not within Engagement Range of any enemy units ; the unit
that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a
Transport for all rules purposes.’

*Page 98 – Monolith, Abilities, Floating Fortress
Delete this ability.

*Page 102 – Night Scythe, Abilities, Invasion Beams
Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read:
‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and
not within Engagement Range of any enemy units ; the unit
that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a
Transport for all rules purposes.’

*Page 110 – Stratagems, Emergency Invasion Beam, rules text
Add the following:
‘Units set up with this Stratagem can be set up during the first
battle round, regardless of any mission rules.’"

Interesting. Works even on first turn.

“Q: Are units that are set up on their tomb world using the Invasion Beams and Eternity Gate abilities counted as Reinforcement units for the purpose of any mission rules ? A: Yes.”

That has pretty massive implications for both resilience of Invasion Beams as well utility.

sieGermans wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:
From the Necron FAQ

"*Page 98 – Monolith, Abilities, Eternity Gate
Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read:
‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and
not within Engagement Range of any enemy units ; the unit
that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a
Transport for all rules purposes.’

*Page 98 – Monolith, Abilities, Floating Fortress
Delete this ability.

*Page 102 – Night Scythe, Abilities, Invasion Beams
Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read:
‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and
not within Engagement Range of any enemy units ; the unit
that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a
Transport for all rules purposes.’

*Page 110 – Stratagems, Emergency Invasion Beam, rules text
Add the following:
‘Units set up with this Stratagem can be set up during the first
battle round, regardless of any mission rules.’"

Interesting. Works even on first turn.

“Q: Are units that are set up on their tomb world using the Invasion Beams and Eternity Gate abilities counted as Reinforcement units for the purpose of any mission rules ? A: Yes.”

That has pretty massive implications for both resilience of Invasion Beams as well utility.

That's only for the emergency disembark. So if you get blown up you can get out turn one, but you still can't disembark turn one.

It's still a pretty huge change - if you're running one night scythe for one unit that unit will disembark, focusing down the aircraft turn one doesn't get your unit trapped on the tomb world forever.

The wording on the enhanced invasion beam strategem (not emergency disembark) seems to suggest you can disembark turn 1?

Enhanced Invasion Beam

"Use this stratagem before you set up a unit from a tomb using world using the invasion beam ability of a Night Scythe from your army, or the Eternity Gate ability of a monolith from your army. You can set up two units from a tomb world instead of one. Units set up with this stratagem can be set up during the first battle round even if you are using the tactical reserves matched play rules"

Doesn’t this also mean that units in Tomb World can also now do the special Walk On strategic reserve shenanigans?

They seems to have completely botched the FAQ for the Wraiths as it removes their ability to disengage and shoot/charge completely. Must be a bug, but still.

Shaelinith wrote:
They seems to have completely botched the FAQ for the Wraiths as it removes their ability to disengage and shoot/charge completely. Must be a bug, but still.

Spoiler:

*Page 95 – Canoptek Wraiths, Abilities, Wraith Form
Change this ability to read:
‘Models in this unit have a 3+ invulnerable save. Each time this
unit makes a Normal Move, Advances, Falls Back or makes a
charge move, until that move is finished, models in this unit can
move horizontally through models and terrain features (they
cannot finish a move on top of another model, or its base). ’

Unless they actually have just gotten rid of it all together as it effectively makes wraiths a pseudo flyer to make them the same as everybody else?

Asymmetric wrote:
The wording on the enhanced invasion beam strategem (not emergency disembark) seems to suggest you can disembark turn 1?

Enhanced Invasion Beam

"Use this stratagem before you set up a unit from a tomb using world using the invasion beam ability of a Night Scythe from your army, or the Eternity Gate ability of a monolith from your army. You can set up two units from a tomb world instead of one. Units set up with this stratagem can be set up during the first battle round even if you are using the tactical reserves matched play rules"

Where are you seeing that, it's not in the FAQ I'm looking at?

IanVanCheese wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:
The wording on the enhanced invasion beam strategem (not emergency disembark) seems to suggest you can disembark turn 1?

Enhanced Invasion Beam

"Use this stratagem before you set up a unit from a tomb using world using the invasion beam ability of a Night Scythe from your army, or the Eternity Gate ability of a monolith from your army. You can set up two units from a tomb world instead of one. Units set up with this stratagem can be set up during the first battle round even if you are using the tactical reserves matched play rules"

Where are you seeing that, it's not in the FAQ I'm looking at?

Its in the digital codex right now under necron stratagems.

I'm super confused whether its been FAQed, and GW just hasnt mentioned it, or it was always worded this way I haven't noticed it.

Asymmetric wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:
The wording on the enhanced invasion beam strategem (not emergency disembark) seems to suggest you can disembark turn 1?

Enhanced Invasion Beam

"Use this stratagem before you set up a unit from a tomb using world using the invasion beam ability of a Night Scythe from your army, or the Eternity Gate ability of a monolith from your army. You can set up two units from a tomb world instead of one. Units set up with this stratagem can be set up during the first battle round even if you are using the tactical reserves matched play rules"

Where are you seeing that, it's not in the FAQ I'm looking at?

Its in the digital codex right now under necron stratagems.

I'm super confused whether its been FAQed, and GW just hasnt mentioned it, or it was always worded this way I haven't noticed it.

That is bizarre, because that's not what is written in the codex, or is it in the FAQs. If true, that would fix our transports (about 3 years too late)

IanVanCheese wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:
The wording on the enhanced invasion beam strategem (not emergency disembark) seems to suggest you can disembark turn 1?

Enhanced Invasion Beam

"Use this stratagem before you set up a unit from a tomb using world using the invasion beam ability of a Night Scythe from your army, or the Eternity Gate ability of a monolith from your army. You can set up two units from a tomb world instead of one. Units set up with this stratagem can be set up during the first battle round even if you are using the tactical reserves matched play rules"

Where are you seeing that, it's not in the FAQ I'm looking at?

Its in the digital codex right now under necron stratagems.

I'm super confused whether its been FAQed, and GW just hasnt mentioned it, or it was always worded this way I haven't noticed it.

That is bizarre, because that's not what is written in the codex, or is it in the FAQs. If true, that would fix our transports (about 3 years too late)

It's weird

I mean technically the digital codex is the most up to date publication, so...

I'm slightly concerned that whoever was meant to copy paste that sentence into the updated Emergency Invasion Beams box accidentally did it here too/instead.

Edit: Deleted. Have to disembark before moving :(

IanVanCheese wrote:
I mean technically the digital codex is the most up to date publication, so...

I'm slightly concerned that whoever was meant to copy paste that sentence into the updated Emergency Invasion Beams box accidentally did it here too/instead.

I agree, as the FAQ doesn't change the ability of the invasion beam, it should be a bug. If it's not, Deceiver and Nightscythe can put two units of Skorpekh Destroyers for a charge T1, quite nasty. I doubt it will stay like this.

Opened the codex to check some stuff and had a look at some of the old points values, from when our book first launched and it was wild. It also really puts some of our points increases into perspective. We're still cheaper in 9th than we were when we launched in 8th.

Heat Ray was 54 pts.
Monolith at 381 pts.
Immortals were 17pts
Obelisk was 426 pts

Ludicrous scenes.

In fact, other than Destroyers and scarabs, who got slight bumps, I don't think anything in 9th costs more than it did when our codex launched in 8th.

Deathmarks at 19 pts, what on Earth were they huffing? Doom scythe at 205? OK I'm done.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Opened the codex to check some stuff and had a look at some of the old points values, from when our book first launched and it was wild. It also really puts some of our points increases into perspective. We're still cheaper in 9th than we were when we launched in 8th.

Heat Ray was 54 pts.
Monolith at 381 pts.
Immortals were 17pts
Obelisk was 426 pts

Ludicrous scenes.

In fact, other than Destroyers and scarabs, who got slight bumps, I don't think anything in 9th costs more than it did when our codex launched in 8th.

Deathmarks at 19 pts, what on Earth were they huffing? Doom scythe at 205? OK I'm done.

Overcompensating for 7th, which seems to have been our 8th codex in a nutshell.

 Sasori wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Opened the codex to check some stuff and had a look at some of the old points values, from when our book first launched and it was wild. It also really puts some of our points increases into perspective. We're still cheaper in 9th than we were when we launched in 8th.

Heat Ray was 54 pts.
Monolith at 381 pts.
Immortals were 17pts
Obelisk was 426 pts

Ludicrous scenes.

In fact, other than Destroyers and scarabs, who got slight bumps, I don't think anything in 9th costs more than it did when our codex launched in 8th.

Deathmarks at 19 pts, what on Earth were they huffing? Doom scythe at 205? OK I'm done.

Overcompensating for 7th, which seems to have been our 8th codex in a nutshell.

Hoping they don't go too far the other way for 9th. I want our book to be good, but not to become the OP flavour of the month. Put it on a level with Sisters and I'll be happy. 90% of that book is playable, with multiple viable playstyles. Give me that, not Iron Hands at launch levels of gross.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I play GSC, they got shafted beyond words lol.

My issue with lychguard is their slow. Tremor shells or the new adech stasis bomb make them statues for all intensive purposes.

I guess you could veil or deceiver them, but that's more points. I like units that work well on their own personally, I have more fun with synergy between units but I don't like requiring it on such a pricey unit.

They are cool though, and I think slow combat in 9th is just going to be used to squat on table points and create an "oh sh*t" zone of intimidation.

Been using shield guard for most of 8th and I think it really comes down to what their job is.

Wraiths are all attack. If they are not in combat they are not doing their job. (really the same for scyth guard which I would never use)

Shield guard are shock troops. I have used them to stop characters from getting killed and absorbing a charge. Cant tell you how many bloat drones or assaulty unit they have absorbed, reanimated, and then just ate whatever for breakfast. Plus they have always just been a threat as they move across the table that tanking shots has always been a great thing. Cryptek though is a must imo.

Yeah they are slow but most of the army is. Now they could also be getting +1 movement from the new Overlord rule and I just feel like their character protection is going to become a bigger thing. Not to mention holding obj is amazing for them.

Going up something like 4pts a model is not horrible but will have to see how things go.

Hey lads,

I'm trying to figure out what I should take the time to paint before 9th, I wasn't able to find a list of what models are being updated, I took a look at the new box set, is it confirmed that those are the only models being updated?

 owni wrote:
Hey lads,

I'm trying to figure out what I should take the time to paint before 9th, I wasn't able to find a list of what models are being updated, I took a look at the new box set, is it confirmed that those are the only models being updated?

Nope

New Warriors and Scarabs are obviously in the box.

Monoliths are getting a new kit as well (with new weapon options) (this was pictured)

There's also a picture of the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer. The fate of the current destroyers/heavy destroyers (and their green rods) is currently up in the air. (Everything else with green rods is gone)

All the plastics from the 5th edition codex are likely to stay as is. (probably including the finecast flayed ones, sadly)


Barges, plastic characters, arks, wraiths, spyders, immortals, deathmarks, lychguard, praetorians are all almost certainly fine.