CatalystGameLab wrote:More printer proofs falling out of the mail: Tamar Rising. It was a huge amount of work but it was so much fun to work on the campaign map!
wondering if anyone would be so kind as to help spell out the state of Battletech these days.
Always been a huge Mech fan, but haven't played tabletop since the early 2000s.
Basically these days, Catalyst Game Labs is releasing the hex based ruleset as well as Alpha Strike, which uses a TLOS (with modifications) system? Mind telling me which books are the core for rules/mech datasheets?
It seems most product is out of stock - the way to get your hands on the CGL miniatures is only through their kickstarter waves?
I still use all my total warfare books, as far as minis go unless you want the new plastics from catalyst ironwind metals still has all of the minis in metal in their normal onlne store and the online exclusive/archive store.
Gregor Samsa wrote: It seems most product is out of stock - the way to get your hands on the CGL miniatures is only through their kickstarter waves?
There should be a retail re-stock once wave 2 has arrived and gone out to backers (as they're all in the same containers). There's also IWM for metal mechs.
Gregor Samsa wrote: Basically these days, Catalyst Game Labs is releasing the hex based ruleset as well as Alpha Strike, which uses a TLOS (with modifications) system? Mind telling me which books are the core for rules/mech datasheets?
Core books depends on how much you want to work with.
Battlemechs? Battlemech Manual.
'Mechs, Tanks, Infantry, and aircraft? Total Warfare.
Building the above? Tech Manual.
Artillery? Tactical Operations: Advanced Rules.
Alpha Strike? Alpha Strike Commander's Edition.
Besides being available in dead tree format, PDF is available in DriveThruRPG, as well as a few from the CGL site.
As a side note: Miniatures aren't required to play Battletech (but they are very nice to have). Several editions were even released with just standies for the mechs!
Manchu wrote: As a CJF fan do not even get me started on this ...
Not to get you started, but for someone who hasn't followed the ilClan material, could you précis what's going on with CJF in this period?
Sarna says:
Spoiler:
IlClan Era
As of 3151, Clan Jade Falcon would survive the aftermath of the ilClan Trial, but in a weakened state. They now serve as a bodyguard clan vowing to protect the ilKhan and the reborn Star League under new leadership.
During the Dark Age era, a character called Malvina Hazen rose through the ranks of CJF to become Khan. She earned a reputation for ruthlessly disregarding the usual moral restraints around warfare, employing terror tactics to subdue enemies and civilians alike. (In effect, she was a presented as a fairly one-dimensional main bad guy for the sake of the Dark Age novel series.) Whatever one thinks about her cruelty, Malvina was effectively cutting a path toward Terra for CJF to finally realize its position of preeminence among the Clans, to conquer the homeworld of mankind and claim the ilClanship.
But the Dark Age novel series had also spawned a typical-for-Battletech anti-heroic protagonist, a Clan Wolf character (of course!) descended from both Victor and Katherine Steiner-Davion (of coursssse!) — basically, the very definition of a Battletech Mary Sue. Alaric not only wins and becomes IlKhan and First Lord of the new(est) Star League but also transforms CJF into his personal bodyguard.
Now many CJF fans hate Malvina because they see her as going against the rigid applications of the Clan ways CJF traditionally prides itself on honoring. Others feel Malvina simply discarded the hypocrisy of her own Clan and the wider Battletech setting, doing whatever was necessary to achieve her goal. Either way, she represented the Falcons’ last best chance to achieve their most dearly cherished dream and with her defeat and death, CJF is now in the worst position imaginable — humble servants of a Wolf ilKhan.
KommanderKong wrote: Not to get you started, but for someone who hasn't followed the ilClan material, could you précis what's going on with CJF in this period?
Automatically Appended Next Post: CJF has been my "team" since I was a ten-year old, eyes glued to the Saturday morning Battletech Cartoon show. I was obsessed, never missed an episode... used to stomp around my backyard after every episode pretending to be a Mech. That show got me through the uncomfortable adjustment period of my parents' divorce, when I stayed with my dad in his new place on the weekends. Then I was obsessed with Mechwarrior 2 when that came out a year or two later... played both campaigns to completion multiple times but I was a dyed in the wool Falcon. I was into Battletech through these media before any other gaming hobby ever came around.
I don't go in for modern Battletech... preferring the older material... but this has actually kind of killed my interest for the moment. What a buzzkill... CJF is Btech for me.
That's the great thing about CBT-you can play any era
We mostly play 3050-3085, that being said most of the units i play didn't fair well after the jihad
.second swords of light-half went traitor and the loyalists were rebuilt as the 4th
.2nd deiron regulars-effectively destroyed
10th lyran guards-effectively destroyed
At least my Hells horse are still kicking. IOTA galaxy forever-the 9th ring of hell.
I've been a proud citizen of the CC since I bought the 2ed game box back in 1991, hanging there like little cucarachas in the middle of a nuclear storm is exhilarating.
Unfortunately on the clan side my Diamond Sharks went crazy, but as it's all after the Jihad I mostly ignore whatever goes for a timeline and keep my own post 3063 headcanon that it's like a 3rd SW but with more toys.
aphyon wrote: That's the great thing about CBT-you can play any era
For some people, the idea of a pre-destined narrative makes engaging with a setting outside of the "current" timeline difficult. I.E. "whats the point playing/reading/engaging in the fluff set 50 years prior if I know that its going to eventually end badly for my favorite characters".
KommanderKong wrote: but this has actually kind of killed my interest for the moment. What a buzzkill...
Keep in mind that few things are more CJF than hating Clan Wolf. And the outcome of the ilClan Trial really divides us into those who are willing to give it up for the sake of some domesticated sense of “honor” and those whose hatred of Clan Wolf goes back to Nicholas snubbing CJF and will never, ever die until Clan Wolf itself is truly humbled. For the former, they will content themselves with cosplaying the Star League-era Blackwatch. But Malvina’s vision was not some accident; her rage and pain go to the core of Jade Falcon psychology, and those wounds won’t heal serving Alaric. Don’t count out CJF just yet! The true spirit might yet persist.
H.B.M.C. wrote: That's like saying you can't watch Titanic because you already know the boat sinks.
I know its silly, but that doesn't change the fact that some people have that mindset. I know people whos attitudes towards the Star Wars prequels and The Clone Wars, for example, is essentially "whats the point, we already know how that part of the story turns out".
Automatically Appended Next Post: CJF has been my "team" since I was a ten-year old, eyes glued to the Saturday morning Battletech Cartoon show. I was obsessed, never missed an episode... used to stomp around my backyard after every episode pretending to be a Mech. That show got me through the uncomfortable adjustment period of my parents' divorce, when I stayed with my dad in his new place on the weekends. Then I was obsessed with Mechwarrior 2 when that came out a year or two later... played both campaigns to completion multiple times but I was a dyed in the wool Falcon. I was into Battletech through these media before any other gaming hobby ever came around.
I don't go in for modern Battletech... preferring the older material... but this has actually kind of killed my interest for the moment. What a buzzkill... CJF is Btech for me.
You're really missing out then. CJF's latest round of mechs are letting them embrace all out, high speed aggression on the tabletop better than ever before. Look up the Hierofalcon and Ion Sparrow on sarna- compared to other mechs, they fly across the battlefield! Improved Jump Jets and Partial Wings let them jump further than they can run. And they look absolutely amazing. We've embraced Death From Above as a tactical doctrine, to the point the Wolves are building some mechs to counter it. Politics come and go, but as long as the Clan survives, it will come back around but their hardware- that's forever.
Suffering a few years as Wolf bodyguards will mean once Alaric is , inevitably, assassinated by an Inner Sphere nation or more recalcitrant clan, the Falcons will be an elite core of very well equipped warriors, with a very good shot at becoming the second ilClan.
It will be interesting to see where they take the IlClan era, based on the very few glimpses of 3250 content there's been. There's a Star League Loremaster with a Jade Falcon bloodname, so they will still exist in some capacity, the difference between Clan and IS tech is "basically meaningless," and one of the opposition elements to the IlCan Star League are Renegades.
kodos wrote: those are the people who never read a book (or watch a movie) twice
and they miss a lot of fun with that (like my wife)
I almost never watch something twice or read something a second time, I still watched The prequels, and the Clone Wars, and other such things, with relish.
kodos wrote: and than there is me, having read LotR ~ 6 times and watching Wrath of Khan at least twice a year
Since i originally bought it in the early 90s-aliens directors cut with the extra footage on laser disc(the only way it was available at the time) at least 50 times. still one of my favorite movies of all times.
In other battletech news
We did a fedcom VS nova cat battle last weekend. the davion forces were RAC heavy but where on the lighter side(muskateers/typhoons). we managed to kill 2 clan tanks (SM1s) a novacat and a masakari before the last remaining lyran tank(challenger X) was forced to withdraw. not a victory but a good showing for the IS.
Well it would have turned out better if the davion player would have stopped jamming his RACs so much. the ontos's and challenger Xs are solid tanks that put out lots of hurt.
TEX wrote:This Morning's Controversy brought to you by the modest social media storm currently attacking Mr. Tex.
It all began with a humble podcast request for collaboration. Now, I've done a number of these on occasion - from HPG Renegade to The MindGap Podcast to Wolfnet Radio and I've enjoyed every opportunity to gab about the game in question. Battletech is, to me, one of the things that has shaped me into the adult I am. It taught me so much to appreciate a good game with friends and even to learn and grow a little. With the current status of GW's ongoing shenanigans and my regular podcasted dissertation regarding my displeasure with their business and creative practices, my opinion was well known.
For I was once a 40k guy, through and through. Clicky-Tech did away with my interests in Battletech for a time as some of you already know. Clicky-Tech killed the game for me, along with the Jihad and Dark ages. That was about when I got heavily into 40k and a few years later I was yet another 40k lore nerd, eager to expound on the TRUE ORIGINS of whatever people said looked cool in my collection of miniatures. Yeah, I was that guy. But 40k pushed me away. Priced me out of the god-damn game. Then they gak on the lore that was actually decent and just, you know, did a fairly bad job running things.
So I was invited onto a podcast to speak with a 40k lore guy, a guy I know of third hand as people have posted his videos and breakdowns of lore and such. Folks tell me he's mad at GW and wants to talk about battletech. Great. I put on my best fake ambassadorial getup, clock out of a 10 hour work day (A short day these days) and talk until my voice starts to give out and I must rest. It was cordial. Jokes were made about youtube and battletech and GW. Stories were told. We even obsessed over the hydraulic press channel.
So I figure nothing of it. I go about my business.
Then the podcast drops.
So begins my torment:
As of this morning I'm getting labeled a nazi, I've had people (who do not know me) trash me on facebook, and other social media platforms. I look up to comment after comment comparing me to national socialists and their work. I have had people leave the patreon over this, some leaving scathing messages attacking my character and my moral compass. Some of these messages were exceptionally cruel, choosing to target what I had shared in my personal vulnerabilities through the years.
Then they decided to take it to social media: I find I am now being targeted. People are now tearing me down and downvoting stuff/brigading. In addition, I have gotten dozens of messages conveying emotions ranging from spite, to hatred to extreme disappointment in "What I've become". The least hurtful of these in particular was wishing that my throat condition continues to silence my ability to pollute the air with such useless noise. Another informed me that I would now be the ruin of Battletech and that's all anyone would ever remember me for.
Reminding myself that I bust my ass day after day, that I work myself to the bone, and spending my off-hours creating for this community and to always strive to do my best . . . and this?
This has been the opposite of good.
In fact, I'd wager It's been a less than stellar day thus far.
I work tirelessly for the community as I'm able, taking on far too many projects, answering far too many questions, and being everywhere as best I can - all of which is supremely unhealthy. I do this because I am dedicated to this community, for it has given me such wonderful inspiration and necessary reprieve in times of darkness. It's why I am so fond of charity, from saving a legionnaire's dog yesterday, to trying to fix someone's home up so their child can have a safe place to grow up.
I don't mention this to virtue signal. I mention this because I hurt when I fail to do a good job. Being called a bad person, boils my blood. Doubly so when I'm beat the feth up already.
Now, I'm not perfect. Not by a long shot. And, I have to say, I addressed my patreon in response to this and did my best to explain.
I will admit, I did very little research before agreeing to the podcast. I knew things folks had said, that the man had some outspoken opinions and occasionally pushed some buttons with some people. I really didnt' inquire further - its the internet. Anything with politics usually does this, its why I typically avoid it. So, no, I did not knowingly choose to associate myself with someone over their outspoken, controversial opinions. I chose to accept an invitation to discuss battletech with another lore maker.
It was a cordial, polite, discussion. One that has resulted in horrific treatment online for yours truly.
I didn't know a lot about Arch, other than he knows a lot about GW and 40k and now there's drama somewhere about him. Now, this drama is here, at my door driven by folks seemingly deriving pleasure in tearing me down on all fronts. Folks who feel that I have in some way betrayed them, their ideas, and beliefs and have fired the first shot in this aggression. That about sums it up.
Instead of capitalizing on the drama, throwing people under the bus, or pointing blame, I'll say this:
I apologize if you feel hurt. I just wanted to talk battletech and shitpost. That's it. Nothing else.
If you feel hurt by my choice to go on a podcast and talk about battletech and games workshop because of who the other party was and their dealings on the internet, I'm sorry that offended you, and I had no express desire to cause harm by that action.
I do not intend to cause harm deliberately. I do not hate anyone or any group in particular. I do not celebrate hateful views.
I talk nerd gak. I complain about games which I play badly. I leave politics to people who want to talk about that. I talk Battletech.
I wished no harm with my choice then. I wish no harm now.
I am going to take the rest of the day.
This has been a traumatic experience and has overwhelmed me.
For those who have my back and know who I am - Thank you.
-TEX-
But nah. I'm pretty sure Tex is a nazi now, right?
A bunch of children believing they are grown adults with a working brain. What a shame.
Years ago I used to work with a card carrying fascist party member. The wonders of freedom of belief, and association in old Europe! I greeted him when his shift started, talked shop, and the only time he brought up the issue of his political positions was to request my vote for his part, which I politely refused. But I guess I'm a fascist now, run for the hills!
Attacking Tex for talking with Arch when the only thing they did was to talk about Btech and 40k is deplorable, but doesn't surprise me coming from where it comes. They can all go and themselves.
Regarding Tex, TBH, per his own admission he didn't do due dilligance in researching who he was associating with. Finding out who Arch was, wouldn't have been hard. He'll recover from this but hopefully the lesson he's learned isn't to "not do shows with other people" but to do some research first
As the saying goes, "if you have 10 people eating dinner with a nazi, you have 11 nazis".
Did you really think I wouldn't?
Between this and Pardoe sidegig promoting sectarian violence it really makes me wonder about the wisdom of getting into Battletech.
I really wouldn't let it bother you. One of the really wonderful things about Battletech is that it seems to keep people focused on the game when they're gaming. I know from their social media that quite a few of the folks in my group are on the opposite end of the political spectrum than myself, and even disagree about things like backing kickstarters and various factions in game. Despite this, they're a warm and inviting group that eagerly grabs anyone who says Battletech near them and demo games them until they join.
In a lot of ways, the fact that there are more than 30 years of wildly different tones of lore kicking about means that Battletech players learn to accept that other people love parts of the lore they personally hate- but that those same people can give them a great game.
All this controversy is happening out in the internet, not around the tabletops.
BrianDavion wrote: Regarding Tex, TBH, per his own admission he didn't do due dilligance in researching who he was associating with. Finding out who Arch was, wouldn't have been hard. He'll recover from this but hopefully the lesson he's learned isn't to "not do shows with other people" but to do some research first
as I don't know that guy or his podcast I tried to find out what this is about and the results for a quick search were recommendations because of good and deep lore stuff for 40k
I don't know how hard it is to find about the political opinion of people if you don't know in advance what you need to search for
BrianDavion wrote: Regarding Tex, TBH, per his own admission he didn't do due dilligance in researching who he was associating with. Finding out who Arch was, wouldn't have been hard. He'll recover from this but hopefully the lesson he's learned isn't to "not do shows with other people" but to do some research first
as I don't know that guy or his podcast I tried to find out what this is about and the results for a quick search were recommendations because of good and deep lore stuff for 40k
I don't know how hard it is to find about the political opinion of people if you don't know in advance what you need to search for
You have to blatantly lie, or take things wildly out of context from online chat session screen shots that were direct quotes from black comedians, sarcastic humor based on real historical events that take to much effort for keyboard warriors to research for themselves to get to the level detractors get to with ARCH. Or you just get easily offended by online GAK posting or more conservative world views.
BrianDavion wrote: Regarding Tex, TBH, per his own admission he didn't do due dilligance in researching who he was associating with. Finding out who Arch was, wouldn't have been hard. He'll recover from this but hopefully the lesson he's learned isn't to "not do shows with other people" but to do some research first
This. There's a big point on Twitter, for example, about checking not only who you follow, but also who follows you. Rather interestingly a hardline policy on blocking problem-followers tends to have the result of getting many more because people are happier engaging without the worry that Nazis, Tankies, and generic idiots might be involved.
So, by his own admission he was at least vaguely aware of who Arch is, that he is a controversial and polarizing figure, perhaps not any scope or depth as to what Arch has said or done specifically or what his specific opinions and beliefs are, but it sounds like he had heard enough to know that his politics are what some would consider extreme and was at least vaguely aware that some of that stuff was tied up in identity politics and the culture wars based on what Tex implied but wouldn't outright say...
And he very intentionally *chose* not to do any further research into the topic, despite - by his own admission - being aware that there was baggage associated with Arch. He knowingly and willfully made a decision to not do his due diligence before agreeing to and pursuing the collab because hey "its just politics" and "the internet" (tell that to the people around the world who have their rights, freedoms, livelihoods, etc. stripped away from them as a result of the same/similar beliefs and opinions that Arch advocates for).
I don't feel one tiny little iota of guilt or sadness or sympathy for him being pilloried as a nazi, and his embarassing non-apology where he refuses to acknowledge who Arch is, what he stands for, and why its a problem doesn't endear me towards him any further, nor does his fairly predictable "Im sorry you're offended" bs. Real nice of him to explain all the apparent charitable work he does on the side, but thats ultimately irrelevant - actual nazi's did charitable work and helped their neighbors too (as long as they weren't Jewish, etc), that doesn't absolve them of the harm they caused or make them any less of a monster. While I dont condone people going around hoping the dude dies from throat cancer or whatever it is hes dealing with, he deserves the consequences of his actions if it means hes losing patreon supporters and receiving messages of disapproval from fans.
AND LMAO at the guy in the comments here trying to pass off Arches crap as out of context jokes. In short, Arch has:
-Started a short-lived political side-channel in which he regularly hosted individuals associated with alt-right, far-right, white nationalist/white supremacist movements, etc. and espoused those political views (note, unlike someone like say, Joe Rogan, he never hosted anyone from "the other side" or attempted to play devils advocate against the views he promoted).
-Collaborated with and professed admiration for failed UKIP wannabe parliamentarian, self-avowed anti-feminist, anti-islamist, anti-Semite, and rape-fetishist, Sargon of Akkad, aka Carl Benjamin.
-Regularly collaborates with and has professes admiration and support for his personal friend, failed Swedish white supremacist political candidate, Marcus "The Golden One" Follin.
-Collaborated with well-known White Supremacist organization Stormfront, representatives of which were hosted on his political channel
-Published a youtube video encouraging people to use the n-word
-Has outright stated his desire in videos to keep Warhammer white and male in its representation, going so far as to say that the community should chase out females and POC who feel otherwise or aren't willing to essentially bow down and roll over in deference to the white men who he believes have "ownership" over the community/setting.
-Regularly drops the n-word on his channel, e.g. - referring to Gnoblars as "house n*****s" in one video (definitely not an "out of context reference to a joke made by a black comedian", unless you can find me a black comedian who does a stand-up routine about gnoblars).
-In at least one video compared Jews to goblins
-Has discussed and promoted alt-right, far-right, anti-semitic, etc. conspiracy theories like white genocide, cultural marxism, etc.
-Has outright stated that Europeans, European culture, and everything derived from it is superior to anything/everything derived from it.
-Has stated his disappointment that Norway has outlawed the murder of Sami's (a long-persecuted indigenous finno-ugric minority living in the far northern reaches of Finland, Norway, and Sweden).
etc.
We know what Arch is about and what he believes in. Sometimes a "joke" isn't really a joke.
Miguelsan wrote: Years ago I used to work with a card carrying fascist party member. The wonders of freedom of belief, and association in old Europe! I greeted him when his shift started, talked shop, and the only time he brought up the issue of his political positions was to request my vote for his part, which I politely refused. But I guess I'm a fascist now, run for the hills!
Do you think he would have been as cordial or as professional with you if you were of a different ethnic/racial/cultural/religious/etc demographic, perhaps? And what do you think the outcome for those members of said targeted demographics might be like if the charming fascist and those like him, as well as their political beliefs, were legitimized and given platform because you have interpreted "freedom of belief" to mean that all beliefs should be given equal legitimacy and equal opportunity to be voiced?
Its really easy to make friends with a leopard when you're a tiger, but maybe not so much when you're a deer.
Miguelsan wrote: God forbid a writer promoting sectarian violence in a fiction book about a fantasy US in the near future.
Nah, BLP has been pretty loud and vocal about his political beliefs for a while, hes well established as a lost cause "the south will rise again" type, his new book is just wish fulfillment of him getting to live out the second civil war he fantasizes about.
H.B.M.C. wrote: We all read this thread. That means we're now all nazis by association!
Thus spake Twitter. Thus so it was!
Enough with that silliness. Dude acted stupidly (not checking his associations) and found out. Hopefully he's learned from the experience, and hopefully other people have learned from it as well.
Miguelsan wrote: Years ago I used to work with a card carrying fascist party member. The wonders of freedom of belief, and association in old Europe! I greeted him when his shift started, talked shop, and the only time he brought up the issue of his political positions was to request my vote for his part, which I politely refused. But I guess I'm a fascist now, run for the hills!
Do you think he would have been as cordial or as professional with you if you were of a different ethnic/racial/cultural/religious/etc demographic, perhaps? And what do you think the outcome for those members of said targeted demographics might be like if the charming fascist and those like him, as well as their political beliefs, were legitimized and given platform because you have interpreted "freedom of belief" to mean that all beliefs should be given equal legitimacy and equal opportunity to be voiced?
Its really easy to make friends with a leopard when you're a tiger, but maybe not so much when you're a deer.
Funny enough I'm very sure that he would have been as that hotel had people of different origins, and as far as I know he was polite, and civil with all of them while in the workplace. And I do believe that all beliefs should be given equal tolerance as long as said belief doesn't overstep the law. If you feel that giving equal chances to legal political platforms, or ideologies means that I endorse of support them maybe you have a big issue with the way a free society should work.
Not surprised, after seeing a convo in the BPL section of the Battletech discord that was encouraging people to shoot lefty's in the face that wasn't addressed. The BPL crowd has always seemed to lean towards the 4channy, gak-posting side of the internet, which is why I stopped backing his patreon and dropped out of the discord.
It's the old problem with the "nazis in the bar" anecdote. They creep in where they can, set up, and bring in others. If they're not rooted out from the get-go, then trying to get them out when they're entrenched is a painful, if not impossible situation.
From his apology, it seems like some people suggested that Tex talk to Arch, instead of Arch reaching out to Tex or, if Tex is to be believed, any attempt of Tex himself to collaborate. It a shame that people are overreacting. Hopefully things calm down and Tex will take a little more care in the future to his collaborations.
Okay, so what you're saying is that we should be nicer to fascists because they're people just like us?
I said tolerate, learn to tolerate those that you personally don't like else you will find that others won't tolerate you further down the road.
M.
Given that fascists would liquidate me and people like me given the chance, I don't feel like I should tolerate them, if only as a matter of existential prudence.
Especially, to bring this back to its subject, when the fantasy being played in involves space fascists against space feudalists.
Miguelsan wrote: Did you read the part "as long as said belief doesn't overstep the law", rhetorical question as I already saw that you did not.
M.
Oh, well, so long as they just fervently believe people like me should be killed that's okay. It's not like they would do anything about those beliefs.
is this over Tex talking to Arch? as if it is then grow up people, guilt by association from radical sigmarxist type losers means absolutely nothing and we should ignore them, they call literally everything fascist and nazi and are the same kind people that think Birds were counter revolutionary or crops are socialist.... why are we listening to these idiots.
Tex is a damn good man who has done so much for the community and raised thousands for charity, anyone that goes after such a person through guilt by association shows what kind of person THEY are, do not derail yet another thread with this nonsense.
Miguelsan wrote: Did you read the part "as long as said belief doesn't overstep the law", rhetorical question as I already saw that you did not.
M.
Oh, well, so long as they just fervently believe people like me should be killed that's okay. It's not like they would do anything about those beliefs.
I believe killing you would definitely count as "overstepping the law". It's amazing how some people can't appreciate a straight-forward statement, but reject it for self-inserted nuance.
Formosa wrote:Tex is a damn good man who has done so much for the community and raised thousands for charity, anyone that goes after such a person through guilt by association shows what kind of person THEY are, do not derail yet another thread with this nonsense.
Exactly. This is little more than socialist in-fighting, communists attacking fascists, because considering the individual never comes in to play, it is only the groups they associate with that matter to such. I'm so glad they've self-identified and now we can properly ignore them.
I'm really struggling to see anything particularly Battletech related in the last page and a half of conversation, or what value dragging such E-Drama has to this thread in the first place, please confine political outrage over youtube personalities to Twitter, thanks!
My personal theory is that the address update was closed on the 13th. Shipping will 'likely' start on Monday. They gave 2 days for frantic late updates to shipping, and to sort through their last minute changes before getting the assembly lines running.
Once they began last time, I recall getting my Wave 1 stuff quite quickly- though I don't think I ever got a tracking email.
well, reading through the last Kickstarter updates on the shipping situation, sounds like I'll probably be one of the last to get my pledge since I have a ~1500 USD order and went for single wave shipping. I'm definitely one of the "large orders" in the phase three shipping pool.
so amusingly my uncle's asked me to teach him battletech, he's arguably responsable for my getting into the game (having loaned me a copy of the Crescant Hawks inception back in the day) sometime this fall when the weather's gone to gak I'll hgave to teach him, thinking a shadowhawk or griffon'll be a good learning mech
I haven't even touched my Wave One stuff, and I'm about to get all my Wave Two stuff? Ugh. I'm gonna be drowning in Btech product! Oh, woe is me! Woe is me!
Tamwulf wrote: I haven't even touched my Wave One stuff, and I'm about to get all my Wave Two stuff? Ugh. I'm gonna be drowning in Btech product! Oh, woe is me! Woe is me!
Oh poor baby. Might I suggest alleviating the pain by having it go to one who finds it less painful?
Tamwulf wrote: I haven't even touched my Wave One stuff, and I'm about to get all my Wave Two stuff? Ugh. I'm gonna be drowning in Btech product! Oh, woe is me! Woe is me!
Oh poor baby. Might I suggest alleviating the pain by having it go to one who finds it less painful?
What? Deprive myself and others my first world Battletech problems? How dare you, Sir! How dare you!
Tamwulf wrote: I haven't even touched my Wave One stuff, and I'm about to get all my Wave Two stuff? Ugh. I'm gonna be drowning in Btech product! Oh, woe is me! Woe is me!
Oh poor baby. Might I suggest alleviating the pain by having it go to one who finds it less painful?
What? Deprive myself and others my first world Battletech problems? How dare you, Sir! How dare you!
I wasn't suggesting that you deprive others of it, in fact I was offering to take on the burden of it. But if you are willing to shoulder the burden, I won't deny you of it.
Updates on Origins 2021, Final Cycle of Recognition Guide, and More
on AUGUST 24, 2021
There’s a mix of BattleTech related news to share with you today, headlined by an update on the Origins convention this year and a rescheduling of the final cycle of Recognition Guide: ilClan. Strap in, and let’s get to it!
Origins 2021
Due to the shortened convention calendar, reduced exhibit hours at Origins, and COVID in general, Catalyst Game Labs will not be attending Origins 2021 as an exhibitor. We will continue to support our demo teams, and look forward to getting back to Origins in 2022.
Recognition Guide: ilClan
As Wave 2 of the Clan Invasion Kickstarter continues shipping, and with the ilClan sourcebook recently released, we have decided to move the start of the fourth and final cycle of Recognition Guide: ilClan. In addition to not crowding out those other major releases, this rescheduling will ensure that our creative team has the time to match the high level of quality of the previous RecGuide installments.
The fourth cycle will now begin with Vol. 19 on Friday, Oct. 15 and continue bi-weekly until concluding with Vol. 24 on Friday, Dec. 24.
Interview with Line Developer Ray Arrastia
Sarna.net, the BattleTech wiki, recently hosted an interview with Line Developer Ray Arrastia. The wide-ranging interview delved into topics such as Ray’s history with the game and recent events in the community, and included a few hints of what’s to come. Check it out!
The latest KS update had production numbers in case anyone is interested:
Spoiler:
Project Update #179 wrote:Reprints Discussion
Hey backers,
Wave Two shipping is of paramount importance to you all, as it should be. However, we've seen many backers asking about various reprints of core items. Since you don't just want your items, but you want to make sure the line is healthy and strong and available for anyone to leap in and grab what they need to start playing.
And we love that passion! As such, just as we've given you full behind-the-scenes data before, we thought we'd provide details on all printing (and reprints) to date of the miniatures of this Kickstarter, along with the core BattleTech boxes.
BEGINNER BOX
We have published 31,500 copies of this game since the start of 2018, and the sixth printing, at 10,000 copies (the highest quantity yet printed, giving us a total of 41,500) is done right now, and we are working to get it on a ship. Normally it would be available by October, but with all of the shipping snafus around the world, it will likely be November before it's available.
A GAME OF ARMORED COMBAT
Once again, from when this was first released in early 2018, we have published 33,500 copies. The fifth reprint, of 10,000 copies (for a total of 43,500), is on a ship and scheduled to arrive into the Savannah port by September 14th. If that stays on track, it means the base game will be available again to stores and our website by early October. Based upon sales projections, we are already looking to start the sixth reprint of this box by the end of the year.
CLAN INVASION BOX
The Wave One printing of this box was 25,000 copies (the largest single printing of any game we have ever done); 17,000 Kickstarter covers and 8,000 standard covers. As part of a Wave One restock (see below), we reprinted 5,000 additional copies: 1,000 Kickstarter covers and 4,000 standard covers. As part of Wave Two we then printed an additional 5,000 copies (all standard covers), giving us 35,000 total. We are reviewing whether we'll need to start a fourth printing soon to keep it well in stock.
BY WAY OF COMPARISON
Just for comparison purposes, to showcase the insanity that has been this magnificent resurgence you have helped create, FanPro US and Catalyst Game Labs, from 2002 to 2017, published and sold four base box sets: stock # 10980 (one printing), 35000 (three printing), 3500A (one printing), and 3500B (two printings). Four boxes in fifteen years sold roughly 40,000 copies combined. As you can see above, in just over two years we've nearly matched that with just one box. And by the end of the year--making it roughly three years since this all began with the release of the Beginner Box and A Game of Armored Combat, we'll have three box sets that each will have surpassed that number.
Meeting the voracious demand for these high-quality box sets keeps us busy, but you can see that the numbers are clear: there's more BattleTech on the shelves now than any time in the last two decades.
WAVE ONE FORCEPACKS
The following numbers were printed of the Wave One ForcePacks:
Clan Command Star: 14,000
Inner Sphere Command Lance: 15,000
Clan Heavy Striker Star: 14,000
Inner Sphere Battle Lance: 15,000
Clan Elemental Star: 6,000
Legendary MechWarrior Pack: 8,000
SALVAGE BOXES
And the Salvage box numbers:
Salvage Box: Clan Invasion: 82,000
Salvage Box: UrbanMech: 22,000
Salvage Box: Legendary: 19,000
WAVE ONE RESTOCKS
Before Wave Two, we did the following Wave One reprintings. This is currently on a ship, arriving early September into the Savannah port.
Clan Elemental Star Pack: 7,500 (13,500 total)
Legendary MechWarriors Pack: 1,000 (9,000 total)
Salvage Box: UrbanMech: 2,000 (24,000 total)
Salvage Box: Legendary: 1,000 (20,000 total)
WAVE TWO FORCEPACKS
The following numbers were printed of the Wave Two ForcePacks (all of this has arrived at QML, of course, as shipping is underway!):
Clan Fire Star: 9,000
Inner Sphere Direct Fire Heavy Lance: 12,000
Clan Support Star: 9,000
Inner Sphere Heavy Lance: 9,000
Clan Heavy Battle Star: 9,000
Inner Sphere Striker Lance: 9,000
Clan Heavy Star: 9,000
Inner Sphere Fire Lance: 9,000
Clan Striker Star: 9,000
Inner Sphere Heavy Battle Lance: 9,000
Clan Ad Hoc Star: 9,000
Inner Sphere Urban Lance: 9,000
Inner Sphere Support Lance: 9,000
ComStar Command Level II: 9,000
ComStar Battle Level II: 9,000
And we ordered more of the following as a restock as part of that printing:
The following are currently scheduled to finish printing by early September, with most of it already finished (they were ordered back in April). Again, trying to take into account the current shipping issues, we are looking at either late November or December to have everything back in restock. Again, to be clear, the numbers directly below are completely beyond the needs of the Kickstarter, to carry us well into 2022.
Clan Command Star: 7,500 (21,500 total)
Inner Sphere Command Lance: 7,500 (22,500 total)
Clan Heavy Striker Star: 7,500 (21,500 total)
Inner Sphere Battle Lance: 7,500 (22,500 total)
Clan Fire Star: 8,500 (20,500 total)
Inner Sphere Direct Fire Heavy Lance: 10,000 (22,000 total)
Clan Support Star: 7,500 (16,500 total)
Inner Sphere Heavy Lance: 7,500 (16,500 total)
Clan Heavy Battle Star: 7,500 (16,500 total)
Inner Sphere Striker Lance: 7,500 (16,500 total)
Clan Heavy Star: 8,500 (17,500 total)
Inner Sphere Fire Lance: 7,500 (16,500 total)
Clan Striker Star: 7,500 (16,500 total)
Inner Sphere Heavy Battle Lance: 7,500 (16,500 total)
Clan Ad Hoc Star: 7,500 (15,600 total)
Inner Sphere Urban Lance: 7,500 (15,600 total)
Inner Sphere Support Lance: 7,500 (15,600 total)
ComStar Command Level II: 10,000 (19,000 total)
ComStar Battle Level II: 8,500 (17,500 total)
Salvage Box: Shilone
As we announced, we secretly produced a thank you miniature:
Salvage Box: Shilone: 20,000
We've gotten a question from some baclers of whether there will "be enough." As you can see, we absolutely have plenty to cover every last backers and then some.
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE BOOKS?!
Obviously the box sets and ForcePacks form the core of the line now, but the core books are still a crucial element. And so after all the miniatures numbers above, thought I would share some book numbers as well (all of these are just within the last two to three years!):
Strategic Operations (Vintage Cover): 2,000 (1 printing; a 2,500 2nd printing is about to start)
Campaign Operations (Vintage Cover): 2,000 (1 printing; a 2,500 2nd printing is about to start)
As for those wondering, yes, we are working right now on an Interstellar Operations: Alternate Eras and Interstellar Operations: BattleForce Vintage Cover reprint split and hope to send them to print soon.
WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?
What does all of that mean for the health of BattleTech and its availability to the market?
Well, it means that despite the insane rocket ship BattleTech has become the last two-and-half-years we have been on top of reprints and restocks. And it simply is the nature of the current world situation of delays in production and shipping that have pushed releases back. But that by the end of the year we will be stocked as we have never been stocked in the history of BattleTech in over 35 years. It means that by the time the last of the ForcePacks above hit our warehouse and start rolling out to gaming tables around the world, we will have published nearly 2.8 MILLION plastic miniatures in three years!
Thanks to all of you for helping us achieve this incredible moment for this game and universe we all love!
As for the initiative deck, it's a 67 card deck with standard poker numbers (ace through king), with the suits replaced by the Successor Lords houses, the face cards replaced with Mechwarrior, Duke, and Successor Lord cards, and two random Star League cards instead of Jokers. There's a suit ranking that's not surprising = Davion>Kurita>Steiner>Marik>Liao.
Each card has its own little special effect written on it that can differ between factions.
The method for using them is a little wonky, using a control deck to randomly pick cards that match the number already issued out to players or groups of miniatures.
I'm just hoping to get my chance at some of the new stuff after the KS backers get theirs, as I only got into collecting Battletech AFTER the kickstarter (never even knew it was going on). I managed to buy the AGoAC box and one each of the IS mechs seperately from Fortress Miniatures, but that was all before April. Nothing since, if I want the plastics (there is always the option of 3D printed mechs, of which I have a couple).
I have random mechs from over the decades and played the video games, but never really took the plunge on the minis game until I saw the new Starter Sets in real life and the awesome new minis and slapped myself for not getting into the KS, at least at a low level.
Hopefully you'll have the chance of picking up every important from the KS. Who cares if the faction dice never come to be if we can have unlimited access to Marauders!
Just got my delivery! I am pleasantly surprised by the look of the Turkina. It definitely did not photograph well, and looks properly imposing in person.
Gitzbitah wrote: Just got my delivery! I am pleasantly surprised by the look of the Turkina. It definitely did not photograph well, and looks properly imposing in person.
My adoration for the Turkina knows no bounds, yet I wasn't so hot on its redesign. So this is good news.
Tamar Rising is just around the corner, but BattleTech fans always want to know what’s next! We’re thrilled to finally share those details with you in a major update to the Coming Releases page.
But wait! Before you go check that out, we’ve got more news to share. Available now is a brand-new installment in the Turning Points series, Turning Points: Helm.
We wanted to make sure you had this in your hands to get in the mood for all things Gray Death Legion, because coming in the next few days is Rock and a Hard Place, an all-new Gray Death Legion novel by William H. Keith! Set during the Legion’s earlier days, the book is the first new GDL fiction by Bill in nearly 25 years, and we could not be more excited to read all-new adventures of Grayson, Lori, and the Legion.
Be on the lookout for an announcement about Rock and a Hard Place in the next few days here, on the official BattleTech forums, and on our social media–we’ll let you know as soon as it’s available!
Turning Points: Helm
Price: $5.99 (PDF Only)
The Gray Death Legion: Mercenaries betrayed by their employer and betrayed from within. Mariks and ComStar oppose them. Can Grayson Carlyle lead his command out of the trap that has ensnared them? Only quick, decisive action and determination will see them survive overwhelming odds.
Helm: A world of glaciers, tundra, rock-filled deserts, barren seas, and an ancient Star League secret. That secret could destroy the Legion and move humanity another step closer toward darkness. Or one step closer toward salvation. Helm and humanity’s future lay in the grasp of an outlawed mercenary unit.
Turning Points: Helm uses Chaos Campaign rules to give players the option of fighting individual battles or to follow a campaign arc. Included are a detailed map of the world of Helm, a run down of the forces involved, and scenario tracks recreating the battles on Helm.
Played my first game of CBT in probably 15 years last night using the Game of Armored Combat box. Plenty of learning curve to go, but it was a romp! We did a Wolverine and Thunderbolt vs. a Battlemaster and Commando with 4/5 pilots and it was a slugfest. Coming from having only played GW games for years now, I was amazed at how intuitive things were and how quickly we could work through rules questions in all but a few edge cases. One of the things I was always iffy about with CBT was the map sheets and the 'flat' terrain, but I realized really quickly how the basic terrain on the maps makes for dynamic and strategic maneuvering without a bunch of arguments or uncertainty. I'm pretty sure we'll play with 3/4 pilots going forward though, the 4/5s were just so incompetent. The pacing of the action was slow because of our mechs' unreliability, but it never seemed to drag. We landed tons of hits but it was mostly chip damage for most of the game until the wounded Commando got behind my Thunderbolt and stripped most of its rear armor without making it to any internal structure. The Thunderbolt had been running hot trying to keep pressure on and things were looking dire, but some decent use of terrain set him up to split fire between both opponents and drop the Commando with a Large Laser to the head, a fitting payback for being harassed from behind for multiple turns!
We just got Clan Invasion boxes from the recent Amazon stock, can't wait to start in on those.
Prometheum5 wrote: One of the things I was always iffy about with CBT was the map sheets and the 'flat' terrain, but I realized really quickly how the basic terrain on the maps makes for dynamic and strategic maneuvering without a bunch of arguments or uncertainty.
This exactly why I love the map sheets (plus my obvious bias towards maps... God I own so many maps...). It makes everything digital. In range, or not in range. Move exactly this far forward, no chance of ending up slightly ahead or behind. In LOS, or out of LOS. There's no interpretation. No wiggle room. There's no way to make a mistake outside of counting the hexes incorrectly (or perhaps missing the very clearly labelled terrain type/elevations). It's not up to the player to figure these things out. The rules do it for you.
It's also why the recent glut of new maps are so exciting, as we haven't had those on decades. New maps to learn, no things to combine, and lots of interesting challenges (like that Tukayyid raging river map!). Now I want them to do a reprint/update of the Solaris Maps. Those are fantastic things.
Prometheum5 wrote: I'm pretty sure we'll play with 3/4 pilots going forward though, the 4/5s were just so incompetent.
Well 4/5 is standard Inner Sphere.
But yeah, even bumping everyone to 3/4 makes the game a bit faster and a bit more fun. It also means that battles at Long Range are somewhat more plausible as just at base stats it puts the bell curve back in your favour (7 vs 8 for a 4/5 pilot). No one wants to play a game where you spend the first half missing with everything until you close to point blank range.
Speaking of point blank range however, did you get into any physical altercations, or just all shooting? BattleMech melee is fun (and brutal!).
Prometheum5 wrote: The pacing of the action was slow because of our mechs' unreliability, but it never seemed to drag. We landed tons of hits but it was mostly chip damage for most of the game until the wounded Commando got behind my Thunderbolt and stripped most of its rear armor without making it to any internal structure. The Thunderbolt had been running hot trying to keep pressure on and things were looking dire, but some decent use of terrain set him up to split fire between both opponents and drop the Commando with a Large Laser to the head, a fitting payback for being harassed from behind for multiple turns!
Commando is a slightly zippy overgunned thing with wet cardboard for armour. The Thunderbolt is one of the most reliable 'Mechs out there. How'd the other two 'Mechs do?
Prometheum5 wrote: We just got Clan Invasion boxes from the recent Amazon stock, can't wait to start in on those.
All I'll say about this is be careful with reintroducing that Clan tech. The difference really is night and day.
Prometheum5 wrote: One of the things I was always iffy about with CBT was the map sheets and the 'flat' terrain, but I realized really quickly how the basic terrain on the maps makes for dynamic and strategic maneuvering without a bunch of arguments or uncertainty.
This exactly why I love the map sheets (plus my obvious bias towards maps... God I own so many maps...). It makes everything digital. In range, or not in range. Move exactly this far forward, no chance of ending up slightly ahead or behind. In LOS, or out of LOS. There's no interpretation. No wiggle room. There's no way to make a mistake outside of counting the hexes incorrectly (or perhaps missing the very clearly labelled terrain type/elevations). It's not up to the player to figure these things out. The rules do it for you.
It's also why the recent glut of new maps are so exciting, as we haven't had those on decades. New maps to learn, no things to combine, and lots of interesting challenges (like that Tukayyid raging river map!). Now I want them to do a reprint/update of the Solaris Maps. Those are fantastic things.
Totally, the maps were just immediately usable and clear. The only thing I wonder if I should add to my standard BT playing kit is a chopstick or something to use as a quick straightedge for checking intervening hexes. I'm still hesitant to use the paper sheets much and risk damaging them, but I have one of the Catalyst neoprene double-sided maps on the way so that will become out standard battlefield going forward.
The rest of our game gave us a lot of good maneuvering opportunities, but my Wolverine and the enemy Battlemaster really struggled to land any meaningful hits. I did manage to jump the WLV behind the Commando the the intent of clubbing it on the back of the head, but whiffed the punch roll. The Battlemaster thought it had gained the upper-hand when it managed to kick the Thunderbolt dead center in the chest from an elevation above, but the TBolt was not yet damaged so shrugged it off. The TBolt brought a lot of good weapon options but I ran it hot so we had a few challenging rounds which is when the Commando outmaneuvered it.
I'm thinking we might keep the Clan stuff segregated for now. Just from making a couple lists with the Master Unit List, the BVs are worlds apart and I don't think a super asymmetrical match would be fun while still learning. I think out next game will be full lance on lance with 3/4s and we'll see what that does to the pacing and reliability of things. I've got an original copy of Total Warfare that I grabbed after I'd mostly fallen off but now it will finally get some use as we introduce the rest of the rules.
Kicking is the way to go for most physical altercations. Easier to hit, more damage, less chance of spreading somewhere useless.
We have had fun multi-player Solaris games where we've had 4-6 players with 1-2 'Mechs each all standing in a crowd kicking one another in the shins turn after turn.
The last time we did that the one 'Mech that couldn't join in was my 100-ton Berzerker - something that loves to be up close - all because I rolled snake-eyes turn one for my MASC and couldn't move anywhere! He got to watch a grand melee happening right in front of him, with no way of joining in.
And I wouldn't worry too much about Battle Value. It's an occasional guide, but it's not really a balancing system like, say, 40k's points system (or even 40k's "Power Value" system).
H.B.M.C. wrote: Kicking is the way to go for most physical altercations. Easier to hit, more damage, less chance of spreading somewhere useless.
We have had fun multi-player Solaris games where we've had 4-6 players with 1-2 'Mechs each all standing in a crowd kicking one another in the shins turn after turn.
The last time we did that the one 'Mech that couldn't join in was my 100-ton Berzerker - something that loves to be up close - all because I rolled snake-eyes turn one for my MASC and couldn't move anywhere! He got to watch a grand melee happening right in front of him, with no way of joining in.
And I wouldn't worry too much about Battle Value. It's an occasional guide, but it's not really a balancing system like, say, 40k's points system (or even 40k's "Power Value" system).
actually I find BV works a bit better then points because it uses a formula to arrive at it, it's not perfect but generally due to it being an actual formula it's a bit more reliable then GW's "throw a dart at the board" method of pointing.
If you’re worried about damaging your paper mats, lay a thin sheet of plexiglass over them for play. You can also use string to trace LOS between hexes. The lessons of wargaming ...
I might have to dig out my laser line - years of playing Infinity made me rely on the thing. Nothing better than using a laser to see if your lasers can hit.
I like the plexiglass idea for the mapsheets, but I'm definitely investing in a big art folder to store all the sheets flat. From what I remember of the old mapsheets, most of the wear I got was along the fold lines from constantly getting them in and out of the boxes.
I just need to figure out what size to get A2? A1? A0?!
Prometheum5 wrote:Totally, the maps were just immediately usable and clear. The only thing I wonder if I should add to my standard BT playing kit is a chopstick or something to use as a quick straightedge for checking intervening hexes. I'm still hesitant to use the paper sheets much and risk damaging them, but I have one of the Catalyst neoprene double-sided maps on the way so that will become out standard battlefield going forward.
As mentioned above, some of our group use the laser line provided by Army Painter, but since I'm not ready to spring for that, I took one of the measuring whips from one of my old 40K starters, and use that.
Prometheum5 wrote:I'm thinking we might keep the Clan stuff segregated for now. Just from making a couple lists with the Master Unit List, the BVs are worlds apart and I don't think a super asymmetrical match would be fun while still learning. I think out next game will be full lance on lance with 3/4s and we'll see what that does to the pacing and reliability of things. I've got an original copy of Total Warfare that I grabbed after I'd mostly fallen off but now it will finally get some use as we introduce the rest of the rules.
Yeah, Clan stuff is quite powerful. You could probably take all 8 mechs from AGAOC against just the 5 Mechs from Clan Invasion (leaving out the Elementals), and the AGAOC player will be in a challenging position.
If you want a progression course, stick with what comes in the AGAOC till you're comfortable with Movement, Movement Modifier, and Terrain Modifiers.
From there, there are upgrades for each of them using what is called "Star League" tech or "Lostech". These have tech closer to what the Clans operate with, most of which is in Total Warfare.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Kicking is the way to go for most physical altercations. Easier to hit, more damage, less chance of spreading somewhere useless.
In most cases, yeah. However, kicking something that is moving fast may cause you to fall down on a miss. If the Mech as a sword or a Hatchet that may be a better opportunity. Also Punching might be viable if the Mech is at an odd weight, as each punch will be 1 point better than half of the kick.
Of course, Kicks will generally just land on the legs (unless you have the high ground), so having a reliable target is quite useful.
H.B.M.C. wrote:nd I wouldn't worry too much about Battle Value. It's an occasional guide, but it's not really a balancing system like, say, 40k's points system (or even 40k's "Power Value" system).
Sorry, it is better than 40K's point system which uses drunk monkeys and a dart board. However with the basic Mechs that come in AGAOC, keeping the weight close is enough. BV starts becoming important with Star League and Clan Tech, as they throw off weight balance by a significant degree.
Manchu wrote:If you’re worried about damaging your paper mats, lay a thin sheet of plexiglass over them for play. You can also use string to trace LOS between hexes. The lessons of wargaming ...
Many copy shops can also laminate them, too. Of course, the plexiglass will keep the corners from curling, too...
Sinner098 wrote: Just got back from PAX west. CATALYST was there with a table full of the wave 2 mechs they had a sneaky annihilator done in there! Talked with the guys and it is for a new wolf's dragoons box dew out in a few months
There is a Wolf’s Dragoons themed ForcePack (not box). The Annihilator is in it. It’s not (at all!) indicative of themed or faction ForcePacks. Nor is it connected to any forthcoming Kickstarter. Can’t say anything else at this time.
Question for you BT folks. With all the new plastics coming out, is there any interest or desire for the old metal and plastic figures?
I'm so invested in 15mm and 28mm mech combat I was considering letting my 6mm BT collection go, but a big part of it is the plastics from the boxed sets from the 90's and early 00's.
Does anyone care about old plastic unseens anymore?
Manchu wrote: If you’re worried about damaging your paper mats, lay a thin sheet of plexiglass over them for play. You can also use string to trace LOS between hexes. The lessons of wargaming ...
I used to do that but now I have been eyeing the clear vinyl desk covers you can get off Amazon for 25 bucks, and are large enough to cover two map sheets. And they can be rolled up for transport, unlike the plexi I used to use for older games that used paper maps.
There are far more metal figures than plastic, and the number of mech models, without considering variants, is enormous. Omnimechs from both Sphere and Clan number about 58 chassis, and for every Omnimech, there can be about 10-20 Battlemechs, each having an average of about 4-5 variants.
While I look forward to getting AGOAC eventually, I won't be getting rid of my metal Phoenix Wolverine, Thunderbolt, and Battlemaster. I may want to have a pair of them running around on the field, and they can always sub for Mechs of an appropriate size.
I keep about 15-16 3rd Ed models to use to represent a model I haven't acquired in Metal or from CGL to pad things out or to represent models I'd like to field for one reason or another.
And of course, there are a number of people who like to have them for their nostalgia.
I've got 3rd Ed vinyl, CityTech plastic, two different versions of the previous plastics, current plastics, metals from the Ral Partha days, metals from the Iron Wind days.
Only thing I don't have is stuff from the PlasTech box because, well... ew!
It seems that the dice are missing, though. The rest seems to have arrived without issues, but I'll need to check... I was sure I ordered the box with the Turkina...
Anyways, this was my Salvage Box haul:
Spoiler:
I didn't remember the keychains, to be honest xD. They're cool... but they probably should have cleaned the 3d printer master a bit more:
Eilif wrote:Question for you BT folks. With all the new plastics coming out, is there any interest or desire for the old metal and plastic figures?
I'm so invested in 15mm and 28mm mech combat I was considering letting my 6mm BT collection go, but a big part of it is the plastics from the boxed sets from the 90's and early 00's.
Does anyone care about old plastic unseens anymore?
Most of my collection is metal from ironwind and older. I got several of the new catalyst plastics simply to get the unseen re-sculpts
On those early plastic boxed sets i am with HBMC on this one, they are pretty terrible quality.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Now I wish I'd got a Davion T-Shirt.
I got Jade Falcon, Ghost Bear and Draconis Combine ones.
I picked up a Kell Hounds shirt from Fortress Games and was surprised that the quality is pretty decent. If there was a GDL one I'd probably go for that as well, I think they're going to be my main faction for the new plastics as I can get them. From a hobby perspective working on merc units always seemed less stressful to me because you have more flexibility, but I've actually been having more fun lately sorting my old collection and trying to figure out more thematic forces across factions and eras.
I've also been thinking about dice lately, I'd love to get one nice pair of thematic dice to use now that I got a cube of movement dice to cover the rest. The new faction dice come in larger packs than I really need, but there seem to be some older pairs of dice that were released but any I've seen for sale were really expensive. I'd love a good pair of GDL logo dice but doesn't seem like that's going to happen.
chaos0xomega wrote: If you mean the faction dice, that wasn't an error. Read the updates, they were cancelled, apparently we will all be getting a credit for them.
I do mean that, but it also stated that it only affected about a thousand orders. I guess I got the ticket.
Certainly not as good as my old ClickTech Jade Falcon dice, but still.
Yeah, I am going to be using an old set of clicktech Spirit Cats dice that I randomly got a perfectly matched trio of in one of those "pound o' dice" bags from my wife one Christmas. Not anywhere near the faction I will ever be playing, but still a fun bit of serendipity.
The Tukayyid Salvage Bits Bags at Gen Con and Beyond
Our company, Creative Juggernaut, has been busy leading up to Gen Con. First, we produced hundreds of Stormcrow Tukayyid variants and shipped those to Catalyst for them to sell on their site. Second, we produced a batch of Black Knight Tukayyid variants and got those off as well. For Gen Con itself, we assembled Tukayyid Salvage Bit Bags, (around 700) as a convention release.
We jokingly called these “dime bags” in-house. They are parts and pieces of ‘Mechs that were unfit for release to the public. Some parts are partial casts, some are deformed in some manner, others have air bubbles (which look like damage). Our company believes in being green and rather than send these off to the landfill, we packaged them for resale. Each bag is the same size as the Black Knight and Stormcrow, but are crammed with random parts. The parts are from these two ‘Mechs, as well as some prototypes we did for a Marauder IIC, an UrbanMech, and a Crusader…but mostly Black Knight and Stormcrow parts and pieces.
So what good are they? These bits can be used on bases as battlefield debris for your ‘Mechs to be standing on or next to. The bits can be used to make fallen ‘Mech objective markers for Alpha Strike games. My personal use of these is for when a BattleMech is destroyed in a game. Rather than tip over a model I have worked hard to assemble and paint (risking damage), you can use these parts to mark dead enemies and comrades on the field/map.
I met one person that bought a few bags in hopes of getting enough to assemble a battle damaged Black Knight. No guarantees on such efforts, since the parts are randomly stuffed in the bags. I appreciated his ingenuity and creativity.
We didn’t announce these would be available at Gen Con because you never know until the last minute if they are going to be suitable for sale, etc. As it was, Brent loaded up a piece of luggage with Tukayyid Salvage Bits and lugged them personally to Gen Con. Things were so last minute, I don’t even have a photo of the bags right now.
Eventually, once the dust settles from convention season, these will go up for sale on the Catalyst Game Labs website – along with the Stormcrows and Black Knights. And yes, we are going to produce more ‘Mechs. No, we cannot solve international shipping prices nor are we selling these directly – you have to order them from Catalyst. Catalyst sets the sales price on these. There is no way to preview them online, so there’s no picking and choosing – you get a random bag stuffed with random parts.
We will do some social media posts when we know when they are for sale; but that is handled by Catalyst and there is no guarantee that we will gets a heads up. I would recommend watching their web site since you now know that they have stock of our products.
So what it next? I’m sworn to secrecy, but there are some big things coming from Creative Juggernaut…BIG things.
So glad to see Battletech getting a real, modern push. Probably going to need to look into adding it (back) into my collection again once I figure out how to get started.
LunarSol wrote: So glad to see Battletech getting a real, modern push. Probably going to need to look into adding it (back) into my collection again once I figure out how to get started.
It's been a trip, unearthing a 15 year old collection and starting to rebuild things to play again. The starter set A Game of Armored Combat is actually available again direct from Catalyst right now, you really can't go wrong picking that up.
You just need to buy a copy of the A Game of Armored Combat box. That box alone has years of gaming in it. If you want to go the next step, also buy the Clan Invasion box set. At that point, you have enough BattleTech to play for the rest of your life ... but rest assured, you’ll probably move on to pick up some additional Lance/Star packs.
Now, I say this is theoretically easy because the problem right now is finding any of the new plastic BT miniatures at retail. But keep your eyes peeled, the next print runs of the boxes should be hitting retail later this year or early next.
There is nothing wrong with the iron wind metals store, you can get all the battletech minis you need there. some of the unseens and resculpts of the plastics from catalyst are nice to have but they are not even close in the way of options available at ironwind.
well with the quality of the new plastics, but those old ones that came in the box set eeewww.
I have a case the size of a foot locker full of battletech minis almost all of them from ironwind save the old unseens i got back in the 80s/90s. i won't give any of them up, adding to them however........
aphyon wrote: There is nothing wrong with the iron wind metals store, you can get all the battletech minis you need there. some of the unseens and resculpts of the plastics from catalyst are nice to have but they are not even close in the way of options available at ironwind.
The second blood asp sculpt stands out as a nightmare, the new sculpt is actually quite nice. although i think some of the really old ones are a bit difficult to assemble
Maybe because i have been building them in metal for 30+ years it doesn't bother me a bit.
There's some truly hideous metal mech sculpts from over the years, but some are still rather charming. The metal versions of the modern Catalyst style sculpts have been really nice so far, but I feel in general like I need to segregate my forces into those that I build using IWM/Ral Partha sculpts and those using the modern aesthetic. They are just lightyears apart.
absurdly basic question from someone who played back in the day, and is considering the basic 2 player starter box --- do you still fill in the damage on a paper sheet? That was, actually, always fun for me.
Shrapnelsmile wrote: absurdly basic question from someone who played back in the day, and is considering the basic 2 player starter box --- do you still fill in the damage on a paper sheet? That was, actually, always fun for me.
Yup! The Starter box with the two mechs comes with abbreviated sheets and a simplified ruleset that only accounts for armor damage and then internal critical rolls, no internal structure bubbles. The AGOAC box has most of the standard rules and uses standard record sheets with all the bubbles you know and love.
For you metal mini fans, these are coming down the pipeline from Iron Wind Metals!
https://www.ironwindmetals.com/index.php/categories/cat-battletech Details:
Summer 2021 Releases
20-5194 Sojourner Prime 60 $15.95
20-5195 Archer ARC-9W 70 $16.95
20-5196 Goliath C 80 $18.95
Web Only New Releases at Gen Con
BT-445 BattleMech Recovery Vehicle $20.00
BT-463 War Crow A 70 $17.00
BT-467 Hierofalcon B 45 $15.00
A big, big day here for mercenary MechWarriors–the Barnes & Noble exclusive Wolf Dragoons Assault Star ForcePack is available for pre-order! The expected availability date for this item is Dec. 15, 2021, so be sure to….annihilate…your holiday season with this exciting new pack.
But that’s not all. Like the Dragoons, the Gray Death Legion is a fan-favorite, elite mercenary unit revered across the Inner Sphere. As the story of a new incarnation of the GDL plays out in the ilClan Era, we are thrilled to offer this brand-new, full-length novel by original GDL author William H. Keith, set in the classic era of the Legion’s early days!
Wolf Dragoons Assault Star
Pre-order: $30.00 (Barnes and Noble Exclusive)
The Wolf’s Dragoons are the most well-known and respected mercenary command in the Inner Sphere and their MechWarriors are some of the most skilled and feared across hundreds of worlds. Once more, the Inner Sphere is poised for war and the Wolf’s Dragoons are on the forefront.
This B&N Exclusive Expansion set includes the new Annihilator, as well as re-posed Timber Wolf and Rifleman and new variants of the Archer and Blackjack BattleMechs – no assembly required – along with 10 MechWarrior pilot cards and five Alpha Strike cards! Perfect for BattleTech and Alpha Strike action!
Unleash the Wolf’s Dragoon Assault Star on your enemies! This Barnes & Noble exclusive includes:
5 High quality, fully assembled, (Unpainted) miniatures
10 MechWarrior Cards
5 Alpha Strike Cards
A Rock and a Hard Place
A Gray Death Legion novel by William H. Keith
E-pub: $6.99 / Print-on-Demand: $14.95
ALIVE OR DEAD…
Just a few months after their universe-shaking campaign on Helm, and the distribution of the Helm Memory Core, all Grayson Carlyle and his Gray Death Legion want is to settle into their new home on Glengarry. But they barely touch down on-planet when a Lyran Commonwealth general contacts the GDL, intent on hiring them to track down and capture Draconis Combine agents behind a daring raid on Lyons.
Tracking the Kurita raiders to the Draconis border system of Valdis—better known as Wheel—Grayson and his people have their work cut out for them. The system’s main feature is literally a wheel-shaped deep-space station and recharge facility at the Valdis star’s zenith jump point. Its structure means a direct assault with BattleMechs will be extremely risky, both because of the tight quarters and the very real danger of an errant shot or missile depressurizing and destroying the entire station. Also, Grayson will be splitting his force, with Lori Kalmar providing a decoy operation on the nearby mining planet Valdis I, otherwise known as Rock, to draw the Combine’s attention away from Wheel.
It’s a high-risk operation on both ends, but Grayson and the GDL have their orders, and they intend to capture the Draconis operatives one way or the other…even if they have to risk destroying the entire space station to do so…
Shrapnelsmile wrote: absurdly basic question from someone who played back in the day, and is considering the basic 2 player starter box --- do you still fill in the damage on a paper sheet? That was, actually, always fun for me.
Yup! The Starter box with the two mechs comes with abbreviated sheets and a simplified ruleset that only accounts for armor damage and then internal critical rolls, no internal structure bubbles. The AGOAC box has most of the standard rules and uses standard record sheets with all the bubbles you know and love.
Thanks man! I heard the 2 mech starter is actually really fantastic way to begin. Cheers.
Shrapnelsmile wrote: absurdly basic question from someone who played back in the day, and is considering the basic 2 player starter box --- do you still fill in the damage on a paper sheet? That was, actually, always fun for me.
Yup! The Starter box with the two mechs comes with abbreviated sheets and a simplified ruleset that only accounts for armor damage and then internal critical rolls, no internal structure bubbles. The AGOAC box has most of the standard rules and uses standard record sheets with all the bubbles you know and love.
Thanks man! I heard the 2 mech starter is actually really fantastic way to begin. Cheers.
if BTW you played "back in the day" you can jump right in with your old stuff, Battletech has largely been unchanged since... forever more or less
Shrapnelsmile wrote: absurdly basic question from someone who played back in the day, and is considering the basic 2 player starter box --- do you still fill in the damage on a paper sheet? That was, actually, always fun for me.
Yup! The Starter box with the two mechs comes with abbreviated sheets and a simplified ruleset that only accounts for armor damage and then internal critical rolls, no internal structure bubbles. The AGOAC box has most of the standard rules and uses standard record sheets with all the bubbles you know and love.
Thanks man! I heard the 2 mech starter is actually really fantastic way to begin. Cheers.
if BTW you played "back in the day" you can jump right in with your old stuff, Battletech has largely been unchanged since... forever more or less
Indeed, about the only really good an obvious change was fixing the AMS mechanics over 20 years ago and moving all the max tech rules into the "optional rules book" tactical operations. So it is up to the player group to choose which rules they want or do not want to use, but none are forbidden.
Classic battletech was so well written it has remained almost entirely the same rule set for over 30 years, not something you can say about that other company that's been around as long
Shrapnelsmile wrote: absurdly basic question from someone who played back in the day, and is considering the basic 2 player starter box --- do you still fill in the damage on a paper sheet? That was, actually, always fun for me.
Yup! The Starter box with the two mechs comes with abbreviated sheets and a simplified ruleset that only accounts for armor damage and then internal critical rolls, no internal structure bubbles. The AGOAC box has most of the standard rules and uses standard record sheets with all the bubbles you know and love.
Thanks man! I heard the 2 mech starter is actually really fantastic way to begin. Cheers.
if BTW you played "back in the day" you can jump right in with your old stuff, Battletech has largely been unchanged since... forever more or less
Indeed, about the only really good an obvious change was fixing the AMS mechanics over 20 years ago and moving all the max tech rules into the "optional rules book" tactical operations. So it is up to the player group to choose which rules they want or do not want to use, but none are forbidden.
Classic battletech was so well written it has remained almost entirely the same rule set for over 30 years, not something you can say about that other company that's been around as long
there's a few minor things that have changed,m (IIRC hahcets went back and forth between hitting on the punch chart.. I think now you can electy to do so at a penalty but it's been awhile since I've played so am rusty)
Battletech is very much "the same game your dad played in the 80s"
Alpha Strike I think was mostly created because fans had been commenting on the fact that the game best supports small skirmish actions but the novels so often had massive regimental on regimental scale battles.
BrianDavion wrote: Alpha Strike I think was mostly created because fans had been commenting on the fact that the game best supports small skirmish actions but the novels so often had massive regimental on regimental scale battles.
Not just the novels but some of the campaign and source books had large battles with dozens of Mechs.
I imagine too that with how stagnant the fanbase/community became (seems the majority of BT players have been playing it for decades, not a lot of churn or turnover, no proper "factions" with distinct ranges to collect, etc) over time players must have amassed very large mech collections that they would want to put on the table in larger numbers to get better use of them.
and doing this with another game aimed for larger scale but still keeping the same play time instead of just making the normal game quicker and larger was a very good decision
Alpha Strike also helps for those that come from a newer wargame and feel that using a hex-board is a step back
chaos0xomega wrote:I imagine too that with how stagnant the fanbase/community became (seems the majority of BT players have been playing it for decades, not a lot of churn or turnover, no proper "factions" with distinct ranges to collect, etc) over time players must have amassed very large mech collections that they would want to put on the table in larger numbers to get better use of them.
That is not true at all. CBT players are incredibly loyal to their factions and talk GAK to each other about it all the time. as much if not more so than 40K. in fact with the field manuals you can play specific military units within specific factions. there are also very specific units (mechs, vehicles, weapon loadouts, combat tactics etc..) tied to each faction once you get into the lore.
You will never see a Drac piloting a templar. the davions simply would not allow it, and a combine player would not demean themselves by using something they view with such disdain.
When we get new players into the game (which we do quite often) we always encourage them to choose a faction first for both clans and inner sphere and then that directs what minis they need in their collection.
kodos wrote:and doing this with another game aimed for larger scale but still keeping the same play time instead of just making the normal game quicker and larger was a very good decision
Alpha Strike also helps for those that come from a newer wargame and feel that using a hex-board is a step back
You do realise 3d terrain rules for normal games are included in the main rulebook (total warfare)? we have been using them for decades even before catalyst took over.
the problem with Alpha strike in my book is that it removes to much detail that makes the game enjoyable and immersive. Sure the draw is the ability to play bigger games or games faster but in reality players put so much stuff on the table it still takes just as much time to play as a normal game.
it is not that you cannot play classic BT with normal terrain, but that you cannot play without hex as default mode
and for lot of people who came to wargaming after the hex-boards were the shiny new thing, they see it more as a boardgame instead of a wargame, were Alpha Strike helps them out
and that it takes the same time as a normal game but with so much more stuff on the table is the point of the game
chaos0xomega wrote:I imagine too that with how stagnant the fanbase/community became (seems the majority of BT players have been playing it for decades, not a lot of churn or turnover, no proper "factions" with distinct ranges to collect, etc) over time players must have amassed very large mech collections that they would want to put on the table in larger numbers to get better use of them.
That is not true at all. CBT players are incredibly loyal to their factions and talk GAK to each other about it all the time. as much if not more so than 40K. in fact with the field manuals you can play specific military units within specific factions. there are also very specific units (mechs, vehicles, weapon loadouts, combat tactics etc..) tied to each faction once you get into the lore.
You will never see a Drac piloting a templar. the davions simply would not allow it, and a combine player would not demean themselves by using something they view with such disdain.
When we get new players into the game (which we do quite often) we always encourage them to choose a faction first for both clans and inner sphere and then that directs what minis they need in their collection.
untrue, salvage happens. in fact there's nothing like painting up a Men Shen in Davion Guards colours
but that you cannot play without hex as default mode
You absolutely can though, It is right there in the main rule book. of course a copy of heavy metal pro allowing you to print out the sheets in inch/3d terrain rules automatically instead of having to translate it yourself does help.
Well if you want to run a scenario where the davions hunt you down without mercy to either reclaim or destroy their house mech ....
Doesn't change the fact the glorious soldiers of the draconis combine would not diminish their honor by riding in an "inferior" mech.
I mean I doubt many in the 3025 era wanted to diminish their honor by piloting a stock Charger but sometimes if you have to choose between dishonor and Dispossessed...
chaos0xomega wrote:I imagine too that with how stagnant the fanbase/community became (seems the majority of BT players have been playing it for decades, not a lot of churn or turnover, no proper "factions" with distinct ranges to collect, etc) over time players must have amassed very large mech collections that they would want to put on the table in larger numbers to get better use of them.
That is not true at all. CBT players are incredibly loyal to their factions and talk GAK to each other about it all the time. as much if not more so than 40K. in fact with the field manuals you can play specific military units within specific factions. there are also very specific units (mechs, vehicles, weapon loadouts, combat tactics etc..) tied to each faction once you get into the lore.
You will never see a Drac piloting a templar. the davions simply would not allow it, and a combine player would not demean themselves by using something they view with such disdain.
When we get new players into the game (which we do quite often) we always encourage them to choose a faction first for both clans and inner sphere and then that directs what minis they need in their collection.
This is missing the point entirely. The factions only exist on paper and in your imagination. For the most part everyone uses the same minis, unlike most other games where each faction has its own specific model range. In BT faction specific mechs are a minority and 80% (or more) of them are shared across multiple factions. The closest you get to "faction specific" would be the divide between Clans and Inner Sphere, and to a lesser extent Word of Blake.
As a result, veteran players have very large mech collections, the majority of which can be used to form a very large force for play in Alpha Strike, regardless of whatever arbitrary color scheme or faction decal they might be covered in.
I understand what Alpha Strike is trying to do, but it's just too generic and abstract. Battletech is great for small sub-lance patrol skirmishes, but if I want to play a battle where each side has a pair of lances and have it take the time and focus of a traditional minis game, I just unashamedly go outside of the Battletech IP completely and play something like Mech Attack.
AegisGrimm wrote: I understand what Alpha Strike is trying to do, but it's just too generic and abstract. Battletech is great for small sub-lance patrol skirmishes, but if I want to play a battle where each side has a pair of lances and have it take the time and focus of a traditional minis game, I just unashamedly go outside of the Battletech IP completely and play something like Mech Attack.
I think that was my point when i said it looses the detail and immersion when you basically remove entire deep parts of the game like pilot skill interactions and such.
As for faction mechs. the same chassi can be used by various houses but the weapon loadouts differ greatly and there are often coresponding minis to represent this. the davion RAC variants of say the rifleman looks completely different than the ones used by other house. both are technically rifleman class mechs, but factionalized.
Doesn't change the fact the glorious soldiers of the draconis combine would not diminish their honor by riding in an "inferior" mech.
.... if the dracs won't ride inferior mechs, explain the 10K Panther?
... and do you still use heavy metal pro!? wow..
It's a panther, no different than a steiner with a commando
And yes why would i not use heavy metal pro. it is a great program. Any mech not in the database is easy to build with the program. i have made record sheets for many of the stock new designs straight out of the TROs.
Any ideas on what would give Alpha Strike a "more battletech" feel? I like the idea of a larger scale game with more mechs on the field.
Played several BT games years ago with 12 mechs on a side and that was shall we say a major time investment. Fun though, but dont exactly have that kind of free time these days...
Doesn't change the fact the glorious soldiers of the draconis combine would not diminish their honor by riding in an "inferior" mech.
.... if the dracs won't ride inferior mechs, explain the 10K Panther?
... and do you still use heavy metal pro!? wow..
It's a panther, no different than a steiner with a commando
And yes why would i not use heavy metal pro. it is a great program. Any mech not in the database is easy to build with the program. i have made record sheets for many of the stock new designs straight out of the TROs.
ohh HMpro's just an ooold program, last I ehard it'd not been upgraded in YEARS.
I think the only things it is missing are some of the 3100+ weapons like the TSEMP and plasma rifles. otherwise it has options for everything else including streak LRMS, MMLs, ATMs, hardended armor, reflective armor, NOVA CREWS, ER pulse lasers etc....
Like the game itself it has not been updated in years because it really does not need it.
Manchu wrote: Getting started is theoretically easy.
You just need to buy a copy of the A Game of Armored Combat box. That box alone has years of gaming in it. If you want to go the next step, also buy the Clan Invasion box set. At that point, you have enough BattleTech to play for the rest of your life ... but rest assured, you’ll probably move on to pick up some additional Lance/Star packs.
It's actually even easier than that.
Pick up the Battlemech Manual for just the stompy goodness, or Total Warfare book for general work. Pick up a few minis from Ironwind, capture a set on sale, or use a marker to point an arrow on poker chips, then see if anyone close by is playing and show up.
I'm still trying to get a copy of A Game of Armored Combat, more for the miniatures than the ruleset. I'd rather use the Manual or TW for the rules, anyway.
Nurglitch wrote: It's interesting to see how rules like Alpha Strike tend to be the result of attempting to make BattleTech more playable.
Some folks (even the company perhaps) may market it that way, but that description of intent does not describe the actual roots or best use of Alpha Strike. Alpha Strike is simply a modifcation of Battleforce, a companion BT game only 3 years younger than Battletech iteself. Battleforce is a game designed to more abstractly simulate large engagements. Battleforce was originally a separate game played with chits (though half-size miniatures were produced) but the rules were later included in the "Strategic Operations" book along with a "Quick Strike" (not to be confused with a streamlined version of CBT by the same name) guide on how to play Battleforce with miniatures.
Some people look at Alpha strike as just a faster play version of Battletech and that is entirely understandable. However, playing it that way -with the same number of miniatures as a standard battletech game- is a pretty bland and uninspiring experience. Alpha Strike shines as a way to more abstractly play larger scale engagements, where the strategy and tactics revolve not around the minutiae of individual mech stats, but on entire units of mechs and combined arms.
For a Battletech-like experience with the same number of units and a faster play time I frequently recommend the indie ruleset "Mech Attack". However it is not an official product and Battletech fans tend to like the level of detail it has so it's certainly not for everyone.
petrov27 wrote: Any ideas on what would give Alpha Strike a "more battletech" feel? I like the idea of a larger scale game with more mechs on the field.
Played several BT games years ago with 12 mechs on a side and that was shall we say a major time investment. Fun though, but dont exactly have that kind of free time these days...
I think you're coming up against the game designer intent of both game systems. Alpha Strike isn't designed to have a "Battletech feel" and Battletech isn't designed for 12-units-per-side battles.
Trying to give Alpha Strike a Battletech feel is probably an exercise in futility. You'd be better off streamlining the BT rules, limiting tech level (do they still use that system?) or using an alternative ruleset.
You can certainly play BT with 12 mechs per side, but unless you have extremely experienced players it's going to take a long time. The Battletech rules simply aren't designed for it. They're designed for a lance or two per side. If you don't believe me, look at the number of mechs contained in most official battle tech scenarios.
Alpha Strike on the other hand is designed for a dozen or more miniatures at a side, but as mentioned above, it's a game specifically designed for making decisions at a "higher" level of command. You simply won't get a weapon-stat-intensive, damage-bubble-bonanza, heat-tracking-festivus, tech-crunch, Battletech experience out of Alpha Strike. That's not a problem unless you're wanting to Alpha Strike to do something it wasn't designed to do.
This conflict between game intent and the scaling desires of players is not just a BT thing. Look at how Bogged down 40k got when a small skirmish ruleset (Rogue trader) was expanded to platoon level (2nd edition 40k) because players wanted to fight bigger battles. Then a few editions later -when the rules had been streamlined and then ballooned again- they wanted to increase the game to Battalion level and instead of a ruleset properly designed for large engagements (maybe a mod of epic 40k would have worked..) they simply produced the day-to-play novelty/monstrosity that was "Apocalypse".
The advantage with Battletech is that the individual rulesets are fairly well optimized for the size of engagements they are designed for, even if that doesn't always satisfy players desires for specific ratios of detail, game size and speed of play.
It’s a good point however that the Manual can be easier to find right now so if you want to get started and can’t find the AGoAC box you could get the Manual and some minis from IWM or some 3D printed ones off Etsy. Nonetheless, given the choice, I think the box is definitely the way to go.
Manchu wrote: It’s a good point however that the Manual can be easier to find right now so if you want to get started and can’t find the AGoAC box you could get the Manual and some minis from IWM or some 3D printed ones off Etsy. Nonetheless, given the choice, I think the box is definitely the way to go.
In general, I'm in agreement that AGAOC is best to start off with IF you can get your hands on it. However, the ruleset that comes with is a bit limited, especially if your local group plays up to a Standard with what is in Total Warfare and the Tech Manual.
Manchu wrote: It’s a good point however that the Manual can be easier to find right now so if you want to get started and can’t find the AGoAC box you could get the Manual and some minis from IWM or some 3D printed ones off Etsy. Nonetheless, given the choice, I think the box is definitely the way to go.
In general, I'm in agreement that AGAOC is best to start off with IF you can get your hands on it. However, the ruleset that comes with is a bit limited, especially if your local group plays up to a Standard with what is in Total Warfare and the Tech Manual.
as someone whose been playing Battletech since the 90s, if I was playing with a new player I would only use the 3025 "starter box" tech. less weapons to confuse them with and the single heat sinks will train good heat management skills
BrianDavion wrote: as someone whose been playing Battletech since the 90s, if I was playing with a new player I would only use the 3025 "starter box" tech. less weapons to confuse them with and the single heat sinks will train good heat management skills
I started off with the Battletech Compendium, before even getting a box, personally, so I was pushing Clan stuff almost exclusively early on.
Where to start someone REALLY depends on the person, honestly. As I said, in general I agree that AGAOC is the best place to start, but by saying, "in general" it doesn't consider specific cases. Some people can handle diving in to Total Warfare right away, while some take time with AGOAC.
In a way, it's kind of like the argument I have with people about WarmaHordes starters who say that the starters need to come with a unit and solos so you can learn that part of the game with it. However, I counter with the simple concept that the Focus and Fury mechanics are the most complex part of the game, so it is best for people to get up to speed with them before progressing in to heavier formats. But so many try to push people in to the Steamroller format, the "only" way to play WarmaHordes, that they ignore that people need to catch up. Still, if someone is willing to push themselves like that, all power to them.
So, too, I would start off training people with Mediums like what come in the Beginner Box or AGAOC unless they wanted to dive straight in to the thick of it. Of course, one must think of those whose first box was Clan Invasion, too.
well the reason I say 3025 tech is because in the era of double heat sinks a lot of people don't master heat managment like you have to in 3025. but yeah you can afford to jump right in for sure.
That is a good point. You start of fearing heat, and DHS acts as a kind of crutch against that.
Took a long weekend of drawn out knock down Solaris 'bouts with hot-running custom designs to teach me that heat is not something to fear, but just a resource to be managed.
We like using the old ammo explosion rules, so 3025 becomes kind of a powder keg with no C.A.S.E if you don't mind your heat management.
We did a huge succession wars game were we killed 17 mechs in one turn(and ended the game) through a daisy chain of ammo cook off explosions.
The other fun one was when i was helping the GM run a scenario campaign as part of the OP4 he gave me a 3025 mech with no case and a rear firing SRM 6. i took gyro damage and tried to stand up..and failed managed to crit the ammo in the torso and kill or damage several of the player mechs...good times
BrianDavion wrote: well the reason I say 3025 tech is because in the era of double heat sinks a lot of people don't master heat managment like you have to in 3025. but yeah you can afford to jump right in for sure.
Even then, there are quite a few Succession Wars designs which are perfectly heat neutral, and quite a few post-Rennaissance designs which run even hotter than most of the Mad Max designs do. ER energy weapons are VERY heat intensive while offering no appreciable increase in damage (on the IS side, at least). A lot depends on what the pilot/player choose to do.
BrianDavion wrote: well the reason I say 3025 tech is because in the era of double heat sinks a lot of people don't master heat managment like you have to in 3025. but yeah you can afford to jump right in for sure.
Even then, there are quite a few Succession Wars designs which are perfectly heat neutral, and quite a few post-Rennaissance designs which run even hotter than most of the Mad Max designs do. ER energy weapons are VERY heat intensive while offering no appreciable increase in damage (on the IS side, at least). A lot depends on what the pilot/player choose to do.
yeah granted a lot of 3050 plus designs also just are poorly designed that way. most 3025 designs aren't heat neutral but work nicely with bracket firing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I remember the first time I faced a Catapult K2. We were both impressed at the idea of a Catapult with a pair of PPCs. Seemed like a novel idea.
Of course first turn I got a crit on the machine gun ammo bay. Very short lived K2...
Funnily enough that's how I've dispatched every K2 I've encountered in my HBS Battletech playthru so far. Nice to see the tabletop translate to video games so accurately.
The general lack of KS related communication the last few weeks has me worried that theres some major logistical delay thats holding things up.
It's driving me nuts. The cut-off date to make changes to shipping addresses in Oz was Aug 28th. That was over a month ago and since then we've heard nothing from the distributor.
"But COVID..."
... is a fine excuse for a lot of things, including not shipping us the product yet. What it is not an excuse for is a lack of communication both from the distributor and from CGL.
I was born in '93 and remember playing the hell out of mechwarrior 3, mechassault 2 and adored those games back in the day. I never really considered looking into the tabletop game. But now i'm seeing more of these newer minis and printed materials and i'm liking what i'm seeing.
Might have to pick up that game of armored combat box, if I can find it at retail price. I did want to grab the beginner box just cause 20 bucks seems like a steal just to demo the game, but it's apparently sold out everywhere. But really if the past year or 2 is any indication i'll probably spend more time painting the minis than playing.
Thargrim wrote: I was born in '93 and remember playing the hell out of mechwarrior 3, mechassault 2 and adored those games back in the day. I never really considered looking into the tabletop game. But now i'm seeing more of these newer minis and printed materials and i'm liking what i'm seeing.
Might have to pick up that game of armored combat box, if I can find it at retail price. I did want to grab the beginner box just cause 20 bucks seems like a steal just to demo the game, but it's apparently sold out everywhere. But really if the past year or 2 is any indication i'll probably spend more time painting the minis than playing.
If you wanna play the game and socially distance it's worth joining a battletech discord and looking into something called Megamek.
Thargrim wrote: I was born in '93 and remember playing the hell out of mechwarrior 3, mechassault 2 and adored those games back in the day. I never really considered looking into the tabletop game. But now i'm seeing more of these newer minis and printed materials and i'm liking what i'm seeing.
Might have to pick up that game of armored combat box, if I can find it at retail price. I did want to grab the beginner box just cause 20 bucks seems like a steal just to demo the game, but it's apparently sold out everywhere. But really if the past year or 2 is any indication i'll probably spend more time painting the minis than playing.
Barnes & Noble just got a batch in. It may be worth looking up.
Thargrim wrote: A local lgs has the game of armored combat box so I picked it up, just finished painting the commando earlier today (steiner/lyran scheme)
Had our first full lance on lance IS game, still using the AGOAC rules and 4/5 pilots and a 3/4 lance leader for this one. Next game we'll start using the Battlemech Manual, thinking we'll move to 3/4s across the board but I have noticed that the old scenario books consistently consider 4/5 the standard stats for IS pilots. My DCMS local garrison lance consisting of a Jenner, Griffin, Thunderbolt, and Crab faced off against some mercs running a Black Knight, Firestarter (laser variant), Griffin (non-PPC variant), and Centurion. I tried to play the Jenner really aggressive and then lost initiative the next turn which set it up to take a large laser in the back from the BK which wrecked one leg, and then another hit wrecked the other leg (hip destroyed crits on both), and then the Jenner fell down and did more damage from a prone position than it got to do standing, before being blasted, shot, and finally kicked to death. The Black Knight also managed a late game boxcar critical roll on the Griffin that popped a leg off, ending that mech's career of usefulness.
One thing I noticed in both games so far is that we tend to end up in a conga line scrum in the middle and it's very hard for a medium or heavy mech to shake a lighter mech that's clinging to its rear facing. I've tried to look around for some CBT tactics tips on Youtube but the searches are so saturated with video game results that I haven't been able to find much that was helpful. We're also trying to stick to basic Succession War era trash mechs to learn and the weapon ranges and heat are so punishing, but I thought it was worth getting the fundamentals down before adding in more complexity and lethality.
One thing that could help against the speedy lights is Jump Jets. If you can wheel on a dime, or move to the side to get yourself out of a rear arc shot it could help.
If they've got the initiative though, then you'll just have to take it, or get into some decent cover. Alternatively, have a few 'Mechs to sink initiative and make them move some or all of their speedy ones earlier.
I find BTW sometimes bait is useful. deliberately manuver a mech into a comprimising situation to enchourage your enemy to manuver a mech into a position you want them too
Had our first full lance on lance IS game, still using the AGOAC rules and 4/5 pilots and a 3/4 lance leader for this one. Next game we'll start using the Battlemech Manual, thinking we'll move to 3/4s across the board but I have noticed that the old scenario books consistently consider 4/5 the standard stats for IS pilots. My DCMS local garrison lance consisting of a Jenner, Griffin, Thunderbolt, and Crab faced off against some mercs running a Black Knight, Firestarter (laser variant), Griffin (non-PPC variant), and Centurion. I tried to play the Jenner really aggressive and then lost initiative the next turn which set it up to take a large laser in the back from the BK which wrecked one leg, and then another hit wrecked the other leg (hip destroyed crits on both), and then the Jenner fell down and did more damage from a prone position than it got to do standing, before being blasted, shot, and finally kicked to death. The Black Knight also managed a late game boxcar critical roll on the Griffin that popped a leg off, ending that mech's career of usefulness.
One thing I noticed in both games so far is that we tend to end up in a conga line scrum in the middle and it's very hard for a medium or heavy mech to shake a lighter mech that's clinging to its rear facing. I've tried to look around for some CBT tactics tips on Youtube but the searches are so saturated with video game results that I haven't been able to find much that was helpful. We're also trying to stick to basic Succession War era trash mechs to learn and the weapon ranges and heat are so punishing, but I thought it was worth getting the fundamentals down before adding in more complexity and lethality.
That is the way we run things by the book IS lances are all 4/5 with the lance leader being an elite 3/4. we only up it when we play clans. with the 1.3/1 conversion this comes out as 2 lances VS 1 star with standard pilots which turns out to be a very fair fight especially without zellbrigan.
As for the conga line issue i always try to include a mech in the lance that is a flanker/pursuit mech. since this is always the last to move it forces your opponent to play a bit more strategically.
Even my steiner desert scout lance includes one "fast" mech like a battlemaster...or a crusader.
Also remember that backing away is a legit tactic especially if you have a mech optimized for fire support like the stalker II with ERLRMS or a night star with 2 gauss riles and an ERPPC.
H.B.M.C. wrote: One thing that could help against the speedy lights is Jump Jets. If you can wheel on a dime, or move to the side to get yourself out of a rear arc shot it could help.
If they've got the initiative though, then you'll just have to take it, or get into some decent cover. Alternatively, have a few 'Mechs to sink initiative and make them move some or all of their speedy ones earlier.
Totally see the value in jump jets for that purpose, but still learning to balance the trade-offs in terms of heat. My Griffin was able to jump into a decent spot to lose the Firestarter that was glued to its butt, but then I spent 5 heat on the jump and didn't feel like it was worth the heat of firing the PPC on a 10+ to-hit. Maybe it's just the Griffin in particular not being very good with its 12 heat sinks, but I found a lot of instances where I could either maneuver into a good spot or use my weapons effectively on decent to-hit rolls, but not usually both in the same turn.
I also see a lot of learning curve to managing TMM effectively. The Jenner was the most clear example I've had where I could dart across the board and generate a +4 to be hit with only a +2 attacker modifier from having run. It seems like anything that moves 5/8 or slower really struggles to generate a beneficial TMM ratio.
Advanced rules allow you to turn off heat sinks to hit the magic +9 over heat to activate it.
Heat management is a large part of the game along with what kind of modifiers you are willing to take. the +3 to hit from jumping in very situational. the extra +1 to be hit can be super beneficial as well as being able to re position facing any direction you want.
aphyon wrote: TMM? you mean TSM? triple strength myomer?
Advanced rules allow you to turn off heat sinks to hit the magic +9 over heat to activate it.
Heat management is a large part of the game along with what kind of modifiers you are willing to take. the +3 to hit from jumping in very situational. the extra +1 to be hit can be super beneficial as well as being able to re position facing any direction you want.
Target Move Modifier. Am I not using that right? I mean balancing the penalty your mech gains on being hit vs. the penalty it incurs to its own to-hit based on movement. Seems like slower mechs have very few opportunities to inflict a worse penalty to be hit than they gain on their own attacks to-hit.
We're only on our second game, definitely not ready for triple-strength myomer
Speed is its own kind of defence (until you face a Gunnery 0 Clanner armed with Large Pulse Lasers and a Targeting Computer...), but I often favour manoeuvrability over speed a lot of the time.
If you've got a clear run to get somewhere, be it low terrain or that magical join between the two long edges of map sheets, then your speedy ones can get some great TMMs going. But once you throw any amount of hills, trees, or both into the mix, then the jump jet 'Mechs will begin to shine. And then 'Mechs that can jump 6 or more? Ha. Forget about hitting them!
Doesn't mean that slow 'Mechs have an inherent disadvantage. I still prefer my 4/6 Clan Heavy 'Mechs, or "Pocket Assault 'Mechs", as the weight saved from going from 5/8 to 4/6 means you get a LOT of guns.
For the slower ones it's about accepting what that 'Mechs role is and committing to that. The Atlas is damned slow, and most of his weapons want to be up close (the LRM is for opportunistic fire), so he has to spend a few turns running as far as he can, not getting any good shots (either due to range or just not being in range), and having chunks of his armour blasted off. You'll be rewarded once he gets up close, still has more armour than whatever he's facing, and can finally bring that AC/20 to the party.
Also, as an aside, despite their name Long Ranged Missiles aren't really good at long range. The +4 is punishing on anything that isn't Gunnery 3 or better. You want "Lucky 7's" with LRMs - 7 range. It's short range, but just beyond min range. Get to 7 hexes and let the missiles fly!
Yeah sorry about the confusion we just call them movement mod dice since we place a little dice next to our mechs so our opponent knows what to add to their "to hit" rolls.
Spoiler:
When we put a 6 next to a mech it means it has not moved since no mech in the game can hit above a 5, now aerospace on ground maps or VTOLS are a different matter since they have higher speeds or movement modifiers. of course AA mechs/vehicles automatically reduce that by 2 for built in tracking radar.
A clan rifleman IIC is a deadly threat to aerospace- X4 clan large pulse and air tracking radar reduce the best you can get with an aero (7) down to a 3 modifier + range.
Also, as an aside, despite their name Long Ranged Missiles aren't really good at long range
Well in all fairness missiles are a crap shoot to begin with because of the random number of missiles generator table, unless they are streaks and to a lesser degree sport artemis IV tracking or MRM tracking systems.
BrianDavion wrote: Yeah clantech is just cheating. Speaking of clanners has everyone picked up Ilclan yet?
Except when it is not.
We have found using the standard breakdown of 1.3 to 1 mechs for IS VS clan it turns into a very fair fight (2 lances VS 1 star).
We try and play thematic so we don't bother with BV or tonnage or anything like that.
As examples my kurita lances tend to favor fast heavies and PPCs, MRMs, C3 etc.. while my steiners (10 lyran guard!) tend towards the big and stompy with gauss rifles.
On the clan side i play hells horse so i always run a mix of air, ground vehicles, battle armor/protomechs along with mechs.
And no not interested in IIclan so i won't be getting it.
aphyon wrote: My osteon with X4 advanced ATM 9s firing HE ATMS is a thing of beauty
Even just one iATM9 can be brutal. It's hard to argue 6 location hits per weapon.
One night we were allowed experimental customs, so I effectively put 3 on something that was basically an Archer chassis and it almost deleted a ShadowHawk (and definitely put it in to Forced Withdrawal).
Last Friday, I had one with 2 iATM-12s, and pretty much deleted a Black Hawk when it got in to HE range. 2x 36 damage across 8 locations can be quite painful.
If you're lucky with cluster rolls, even the normal one is fine. It helped brutalize a couple Battlemasters last Friday (did a second game after destroying that Black Hawk with a different force). It was helped by a bit of focus fire, admittedly, but I managed to get all 9 to hit each time it fired (Artemis can be very useful at times).
aphyon wrote: You forgot clan LRMs have no minimum ranges (but don't do indirect fire).
The Streaks and regular ATMs don't fire indirectly, but the regular LRMs and iATMs do indirect fire (iATMs lose their Streak function if they fire indirectly, though).
H.B.M.C. wrote: Speed is its own kind of defence (until you face a Gunnery 0 Clanner armed with Large Pulse Lasers and a Targeting Computer...), but I often favour manoeuvrability over speed a lot of the time.
Yeah, maneuverability can often trump speed, allowing one to get behind terrain or another unit when speed just can't. Add in the fact that Jumping adds to the TMM means one doesn't quite have to move as far to achieve a similar result. That doesn't even consider the ability for a sniper to get in to position more quickly
Of course, it can get quite ridiculous. On unlimited nights, I usually have a 3-40 tonner with a Jump of 8-10 carrying C3 just to provide targeting data. Hitting that guy is a pain in the arse. Heck, I love that HBS' Battletech starts you off with a Spider instead of a Stinger for just that reason.
H.B.M.C. wrote: For the slower ones it's about accepting what that 'Mechs role is and committing to that. The Atlas is damned slow, and most of his weapons want to be up close (the LRM is for opportunistic fire), so he has to spend a few turns running as far as he can, not getting any good shots (either due to range or just not being in range), and having chunks of his armour blasted off. You'll be rewarded once he gets up close, still has more armour than whatever he's facing, and can finally bring that AC/20 to the party.
Some ways to do that is get a +2 Level behind you so he can't shoot the back without doing a lot of maneuvering.
Another is to have a light hunter sitting in your backfield just waiting for someone to do something stupid. One example of that is we had a game where we had to keep a guy in their backfield to gain a point, along with the usual beat'em up points. I sent a Battlemaster up to a Sniper position (slightly modified to pair an LRM-15 with its PPC, ran forward with a Davion Thunderbolt (also slightly modified to to swap an LRM-10 with a PPC), sent an OstScout in to their backfield, and kept a Centurion in my backfield to handle his locust. He used a Wolverine for his backstop, but I don't think he was as prepared as I was. His speedy guy was a Locust, but it didn't last long enough against my Centurion.
The Atlas is damned slow, and most of his weapons want to be up close (the LRM is for opportunistic fire),
I am going to add to that...depends on the atlas variant, just like playing MWLL online you choose the atlas that has the best loadout for the environment.
I only have one atlas i run in my Lyran lance and it doesn't need to be close, it is the K variant. 2 ERlarges, gauss, LRM20...and 2 medium pulse lasers "just in case"
Now if you are in a city fight the S variant is the brawler with only the LRM 20 for range everything else is knife fighting range.
But yes, when I said "Atlas" I was generalising. There are many versions of many 'Mechs that have vastly different roles based upon their load outs.
Not to mention considering time frame of use. The AS7-K requires Star League tech in order to work, but the AS7-D is available in the worst parts of the Succession Wars. The AS7-RS may work better in the open field, and the AS7-A might work better in Urban environs, I think. 5 SRM-6s is nothing to sneeze at when you come around a corner.
you know or don't know? (not sure if it is my english that tricks me or a typo in your post)
in case you don't know, Steiner high rank commanders got there mainly because of nobility and people they know rather than any comabt experience (hence not knowing the basics of warfare) while their mustering system is similar
so the commanders bring only the biggest most expensive stuff with them when going into battle (and Lyran Alliance have enough money to do that), and have nothing but Assault Mechs available (so need to send one for recon as they don't have anything else)
the Meme of the Lyran Recon Force/Steiner Scout Force/Steiner Scout Mechs, is around since the very beginning
(even saw once one as a kid during a store/club event, with the opponent team introducing their army "this is the command lance with 4 Atlas, this is the fire support lance with 4 Atlas, this is the recon lance, with 4 Atlas")
chaos0xomega wrote: Ok, I really know, where did this "Steiner uses Atlases/heavy assault mechs for scouting" meme come from? I keep seeing it pop up everywhere.
In the lore steiner are known for using the biggest mechs and the biggest guns favoring gauss and AC 20s because... well they are the bankers and they have the money, however the down side is that most command positions within the LAAF are based on social standing not on skill.
The steiner scout squad meme is from TEX over on the BPL YT channel.
chaos0xomega wrote: Ok, I really know, where did this "Steiner uses Atlases/heavy assault mechs for scouting" meme come from? I keep seeing it pop up everywhere.
Alright so historicly the Lyrans are not known for their tactical skill, in part this is because the Lyran armed forces, more so then any of the other great houses suffers from the problem of "social generals" (wealthy people using connections to secure high military rank so as to use their military service to propell their social rank) however what the Lyrans do have is prodigious industrial output. match only by, MAYBE the Free Worlds League. this means Lyran Tactics tends to be "wall of steel" using large numbers of heavy and assault mechs and just out shooting and out lasting their enemies. This BTW lead to major sources of tension within the FedCom alliance as the Federated Suns tended to prefer more sophisticated tactics then "RUSH THE ENEMY WITH OUR HUNDRED TONNERS!" and tended to... advise the Lyran troops on tactics (which prickled the pride of Lyran generals)
So yeah the "4 atlases is a steiner scout lance" is an exaggerated meme based on the very real in universe fact that the Lyrans prefer heavier mechs and don't really hold light mechs in high esteem
Alright so historicly the Lyrans are not known for their tactical skill, in part this is because the Lyran armed forces, more so then any of the other great houses suffers from the problem of "social generals" (wealthy people using connections to secure high military rank so as to use their military service to propell their social rank) however what the Lyrans do have is prodigious industrial output. match only by, MAYBE the Free Worlds League. this means Lyran Tactics tends to be "wall of steel" using large numbers of heavy and assault mechs and just out shooting and out lasting their enemies. This BTW lead to major sources of tension within the FedCom alliance as the Federated Suns tended to prefer more sophisticated tactics then "RUSH THE ENEMY WITH OUR HUNDRED TONNERS!" and tended to... advise the Lyran troops on tactics (which prickled the pride of Lyran generals)
There is a lot more to it than that. The Lyran memes of social generals and assault mech units are exactly that. Lyrans have a reputation of using assault mechs even when they don't, and most Lyran field commanders, even at higher levels are competent. 'Social generals' are a feature throughout the succession wars era and afterward for the great houses. These are after all feudal aristocracys and they all agree that it is better to have a mediocre general with historic house connexions than a more competent and maybe ambitiious one who has no deep roots to the royal house they serve. Lyrans possibly have less social generals than the Capellan Confederation, but the Lyran press can criticise theirs. Furthermore most actual social generals are relatively harmless, they buy their commission to wear a uniform and pontificate at parties, and can be easily steered away from command roles. Most occurances when one of these incompetents has to make a real military decision are incidental and close to home, and normally under the nose of the press. Lyrans don't do much about their reputation, but it would be foolish to assume they are unaware of it, or are ignoring it. Instead methinks they understand the phenomenon better than most and are happy to be underestimated, and if the cost of that is to have some clueless nobles in staff uniforms hanging around in Tharkad, so be it. If they draw attention away from the largely competent Lyran staff corps and those nobles who can be trusted with field command so much the better.
Where the Lyrans do have a particular dogma is in understanding the price of everything and thinking of their military in fiscal terms. Now again the other great houses do this to. But for everyone else the mantra is 'what corners can we cut without dropping military strength', for the Lyrans it is 'what extra can I spend now for a best results later'. Now the Lyran mantra would be forward thinking if it refered to R&D or developing new more efficeint battle machines, but instead the Lyrans take a spreadsheet approach. This approach is not necessarily wrong, just two dimensional. It is understood, from spreadsheets at least, that assault mechs are the most survival combat units, so in order to minimise long term costs in mech replacement, invest now to build the heaviest mechs possible. This works, at least from the Lyran point of view, but the result is not an overall upshift in tonnage, light and medium units are left more or less unchanged, and the Lyrans do produce a large number of both, though admittedly they too tend to follow the upper side of tonnage in their weight bracket. The extra assault mechs the Lyrans possess instead come at the expense of the number of heavies they deploy. With remaining designs being those that favour specialist roles or fire support.
The end result is that Lyran heavy battalions, now assault battalions sacrifice mobility in return for diminishing but still present returns in firepower and armour. The lack of mobility in turn leads to two dimensional battle tactics and an attrition based strategy which is flavoured by the mantra that it is cheaper to repair the damaged armour of a Lyran assault mech than the enemy costs to repair internal structure of their own. Like almost every non clan unit Battletech tactics still revolves largely around the concept of 'combat loss grouping', which is based on the observed phenomenon that mech units tend to deplete capability more or less evenly over the course of an engagement but take very few casualties during this process, however when the first mech falls the depleted strength of the remaining mechs means the other will quickly fall after. This doesn't work in game because players tend to concentrate fire on one target, destroy it and move on. The fluff assumes however that mechwarriors will spread fire around more, both not having a top down view of the battlefield but also concentrating on what is closest to, or firing upon themselves. Lyrans as a faction gamble on having a higher bar threshold for a CLG against more limited ability to extract assets approaching the threshold. Most major Lyran defeats occur when the latter cannot be avoided, and when they do the losses are more spectacular; meanwhile the Lyran press blames the high ranking field commanders for these losses when their attention should be directed at procurement policy makers and the military-industrial complex.
every great house has social generals yes but for the Lyrans it's more notable then most.
seriously the biggest reason for friction between the fedcoms military was clashing fedsuns vs Lyran doctrine. and it was heavily implied the Lyrans doctrine sucked and the Lyrans just didn't like being told so (there's a reason why the Lyrans adopted the RCT)
The fourth and final cycle of BattleMech Recognition Guide: ilClan kicks off today with Vol. 19, featuring the rare Iron Cheetah and a host of redesigned classics!
As a reminder, the Rec Guide series will run through Vol. 24, currently slated to come out on Friday, Dec. 24.
We’ve also got a sneak preview of an item coming out next week, so scroll down for more…
But before all that, we wanted to let you know about our next AMA session, happening Saturday, Oct. 23 at 2:30 p.m. Eastern Time (GMT -5). Join Tex from the Black Pants Legion, members of WolfNet Radio, Death From Above, Arbiter Studios, CamoSpecs Online, Renegade HPG, Battle Bound, and Ray Arrastia and ask them anything about creating and sharing content for the BattleTech community.
(Please note the slight time bump here to accommodate the participants. it’s gonna be a packed house, we’ll try to keep the chaos to a minimum!)
Recognition Guide: ilClan, Vol. 19
PDF: $3.99
The march of technology across BattleTech’s eras is relentless—but some BattleMech designs never die. Each installment of this PDF-only series not only includes a brand new BattleMech or OmniMech, but also details Classic ’Mech designs from both the Inner Sphere and the Clans, now fully rebuilt with Dark Age technology (3085 and beyond).
Allowing beloved units redesigned for the BattleTech: Clan Invasion crowd funding campaign to be competitive on “modern” battlefields, this series also includes in-universe development notes, battle histories, notable pilots, and record sheets for each ’Mech. Released as a series of 24 PDF-only documents through the end of 2020 and early 2021, many ’Mechs featured in this series will be collected in print upon its completion.
Available Next Week: Multi-Part Plastic Stormcrow!
Debuting next Friday, Oct. 22 exclusively in the Catalyst Game Labs web store is the plastic, multi-part Stormcrow TC! This high-quality model allows you to build your ’Mech how you like, with many different possible poses.
We’ll have several hundred miniatures available in this first wave of release, with more Stormcrows and a restock of multi-part plastic Black Knight expected soon. We’re limiting orders to one Stormcrow per person, and they’ll go live in the web store at 2 p.m. Eastern Time (GMT -5) on Friday, Oct. 22
First seen during the battle of Tukayyid, the -TC Stormcrow offered the Clans a configuration unique to this legendary battle.
This premium variant uses new modeling techniques being employed to update all BattleMech designs. It comes unassembled and unpainted – and includes optional parts (4 arms), allowing you to decide between the -TC and the -B variants of the Stormcrow!
Supply is very limited, so orders are currently restricted to one model per person.
NOTE: This premium item is the second (of two) created as a test run to gauge the level of interest in the market for premium figures. Due to the success of the first miniature we have asked the supplier to make every effort to stock this item in more quickly and in sufficient quantity. They are already working on how to increase their production. Thank you for your patience!
Price: 24.99
Also available next week will be the Tukayyid Salvage Bags, a collection of bits from the plastic Stormcrow and Black Knight production lines. They’re perfect for modding your mini, or using as battlefield salvage or objective markers. Like the Stormcrow, they’ll be available at 2 p.m. Eastern on Friday, Oct. 22.
Production lines are far from perfect, even in the 31st century. Which is how Battle Salvage, Inc., a junior division of Kai Allard Enterprises, acquired a contract with workshops producing both the Black Knight Clanbuster and Stormcrow-TC to sweep up the cast-off pieces and parts for the first battlefield salvage kit. (Unconfirmed reports claim there may be salvaged items from other Mechs, specifically the UrbanMech and Crusader.)
*This package contains miscasts, imperfect parts, and other remnants. Modify your existing TO&E, build something completely new from scratch, or just litter the landscape with a graveyard of previous battles. Each bag comes unassembled and unpainted – and includes a random assortment of approximately 10 pieces which may include torsos, arms, legs, hands and heads.
Note: This product will be listed on an as-available basis, and relies specifically on workshop parts that failed QC inspection.
The Cougar
The Iron Cheetah (an old battletechnology mech thats finally been canonized a 4/6 100 ton omnimech)
The Scorpion
The Rime Otter (new Ghost Bear 55 tonner)
with the Spider, Mercury and Orion featured in the "3 on a page overview"
aphyon wrote: The steiner scout squad meme is from TEX over on the BPL YT channel.
Tex made it famous on Youtube, the Meme already existed long before Memes existed
Memes have been recorded as existing since around/before WW2 and the term itself has existed since the 1960's. So not older, but it's still pretty damn old a meme.
aphyon wrote: The steiner scout squad meme is from TEX over on the BPL YT channel.
Tex made it famous on Youtube, the Meme already existed long before Memes existed
Memes have been recorded as existing since around/before WW2 and the term itself has existed since the 1960's. So not older, but it's still pretty damn old a meme.
yeah the meme dates back to at LEAST the late 90s. and I say at least because that was when I got into battletech and it was already a meme then
aphyon wrote: The steiner scout squad meme is from TEX over on the BPL YT channel.
Tex made it famous on Youtube, the Meme already existed long before Memes existed
Memes have been recorded as existing since around/before WW2 and the term itself has existed since the 1960's. So not older, but it's still pretty damn old a meme.
Yeah, the term itself is much older (was used around 1900 in science to describe the spreading/evolution of ideas/behaviour) yet the phenomenon of "memes" that are also universally called that way started ~2000/2010
During the 90ies early 2000 also the term "de-motivational-poster" was used for what we call meme now (this is actually were the black framed pictures with text come from, to make jokes about this motivation poster companies placed in the office)
This does explain how the Lyrans got mangled by the Jade Falcons.
I mean in fairness everyone got mangled by the clans. I mean this was a case of 5 3/4 pilots in clan mechs beating up a half dozen 4/5 pilots in old tro 3025 clankers.
My first thought was jade falcon, but none of the galaxies use red as the highlight. wolf does with some of their units but it is usually combined with a different shade of green or grey. Clan fire mandrill KINDRAA FARADAY-TANAGA is close
Just a quick question. What unit does the Battlemaster on the cover of the rulebox belong to? The blue one with the red and white strip. I can't figure it out but I like that color scheme.
Korthu wrote: Just a quick question. What unit does the Battlemaster on the cover of the rulebox belong to? The blue one with the red and white strip. I can't figure it out but I like that color scheme.
Korthu wrote: Just a quick question. What unit does the Battlemaster on the cover of the rulebox belong to? The blue one with the red and white strip. I can't figure it out but I like that color scheme.
Thanks.
-K
that's the classic davion guards paint scheme. The Battlemaster in question is Dana, A BLG-1G the personal battlemech of Prince Hanse Davion
so for those looking to expand their collections of KS mechs and are willing to order from a US based store Games and Stuff has some mech boxes up. I placed an order and it was shipped damned fast, it should be here tomorrow.
The whole point of the Iron Cheetah was that the Jaggies wanted a faster Daishi.
It could be worse I suppose, but 95 tons can make a pretty good Dire Wolf. FASA had to make use of the rating 400 engine for flavour and I suppose it is better to do that at 100 tons than 80.
Albertorius wrote: Kinda fond of the B one... jump jets and that many pulse lasers coupled with a targeting computer can be nasty. Like a faster, less armed Turkina B
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote: Besides battletech isn't exactly just an endless slew of optimized designs. and there's already a 4/6 95 ton omnimech.
It's one of the things I like about Btech, actually.
ohh agreed. you know if someone's been playing battletech awhile if his custom mechys stop being overly optimzied cheese machines and starting being "oddball designs" that clearly have some story behind them
Albertorius wrote: Kinda fond of the B one... jump jets and that many pulse lasers coupled with a targeting computer can be nasty. Like a faster, less armed Turkina B
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote: Besides battletech isn't exactly just an endless slew of optimized designs. and there's already a 4/6 95 ton omnimech.
It's one of the things I like about Btech, actually.
ohh agreed. you know if someone's been playing battletech awhile if his custom mechys stop being overly optimzied cheese machines and starting being "oddball designs" that clearly have some story behind them
Aside from the occasional salvage from campaigns(with the random quirks that can happen) or scenario for characters our group never allows custom mechs to prevent abuse. with the 600+ mechs + vehicles available you are sure to find some stock design that fits what you are after.
Albertorius wrote: Kinda fond of the B one... jump jets and that many pulse lasers coupled with a targeting computer can be nasty. Like a faster, less armed Turkina B
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote: Besides battletech isn't exactly just an endless slew of optimized designs. and there's already a 4/6 95 ton omnimech.
It's one of the things I like about Btech, actually.
ohh agreed. you know if someone's been playing battletech awhile if his custom mechys stop being overly optimzied cheese machines and starting being "oddball designs" that clearly have some story behind them
Aside from the occasional salvage from campaigns(with the random quirks that can happen) or scenario for characters our group never allows custom mechs to prevent abuse. with the 600+ mechs + vehicles available you are sure to find some stock design that fits what you are after.
.... you don't crack open SSW or megamek lab to play with the construction rules for fun? 99% of my custom mechs I never use, and when I do it's stuff for campaigns where I try to keep the spirit of the design while customizing it for my preferance (my last customization, swapped out the AC 5 and LRM 10 of a dragon for an AC 10 and a SRM 4)
H.B.M.C. wrote: I can make stupid 'Mechs designs in SSW for hours. I don't use any of them, aside from the odd specific OmniMech config, but it's fun to do.
agreed. it;s one of the most entertaining parts of battletech! I just finished making a 55 ton "Marauder III"
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 18 28
Center Torso (rear) 7
L/R Torso 13 19
L/R Torso (rear) 7
L/R Arm 9 17
L/R Leg 13 23
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TAGHD 0 1 1.00
Large Laser RT 8 2 5.00
ER PPC RA 15 3 7.00
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
ER PPC LA 15 3 7.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 6
Albertorius wrote: Kinda fond of the B one... jump jets and that many pulse lasers coupled with a targeting computer can be nasty. Like a faster, less armed Turkina B
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote: Besides battletech isn't exactly just an endless slew of optimized designs. and there's already a 4/6 95 ton omnimech.
It's one of the things I like about Btech, actually.
ohh agreed. you know if someone's been playing battletech awhile if his custom mechys stop being overly optimzied cheese machines and starting being "oddball designs" that clearly have some story behind them
Aside from the occasional salvage from campaigns(with the random quirks that can happen) or scenario for characters our group never allows custom mechs to prevent abuse. with the 600+ mechs + vehicles available you are sure to find some stock design that fits what you are after.
.... you don't crack open SSW or megamek lab to play with the construction rules for fun? 99% of my custom mechs I never use, and when I do it's stuff for campaigns where I try to keep the spirit of the design while customizing it for my preferance (my last customization, swapped out the AC 5 and LRM 10 of a dragon for an AC 10 and a SRM 4)
Nope-
During campaigns we have made frankenmechs out of salvaged equipment but in over 20 years i have made one single custom mech for a campaign for a clan commander-a loki....with full armor and a sensible weapons loadout...still have it on HMP
Found it
XL 325 (5/8)
16 double HS targeting computer
ER large laser
large pulse laser
streak 6
3 small pulse lasers
AC10 12 tons (RT)
AC10 ammo (20) 2 tons (RT)
Large Laser 5 tons (LA)
SRM 6 3 tons (LT)
SRM 6 ammo (15) 1 ton (LT)
Small laser .5 tons (LT)
The Left arm is a shoulder edge pintel rising vertically with the large laser atop.
The right arm is an oversized gorilla arm ending in a fist.
There is technically no torso twist but the torso weapons have internal gimbals which allow the weapons facing to rotate. The entire mech is stiff and cumbersome but has a wide range of motion for its arms, the crushing arm has a high shoulder at an offset and curls around, this mobility compensates for the lack of torso rotation so the4 mech behaves in game like normal.
This design does not look subtle, hence the name. It is a later design, post Helm recovery but built with 'backward' technology for ease of manufacture and repair. It is intended to hold the line and dish out damage while doing so, fire support, tactical mobility, those are the concern of other mechs. The Brute gets the job done and favours attritional combat.
Albertorius wrote: Kinda fond of the B one... jump jets and that many pulse lasers coupled with a targeting computer can be nasty. Like a faster, less armed Turkina B
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote: Besides battletech isn't exactly just an endless slew of optimized designs. and there's already a 4/6 95 ton omnimech.
It's one of the things I like about Btech, actually.
ohh agreed. you know if someone's been playing battletech awhile if his custom mechys stop being overly optimzied cheese machines and starting being "oddball designs" that clearly have some story behind them
I do not in anyway disagree, only I heard lots of gushing over the Iron Cheetah, when its a white elephant. The C-Bill cost (and clan equivalent) must be ridiculous.
Most of my custom designs of late have basically been to make what could be called IIIC versions of the original designs. I basically recreate their original weapon loadouts with 3145 Experimental tech. But that's because I like exploring what tech options there are.
After all, do you know how mean an Archer armed with 4 Clan LRM-15s equipped with Artemis V and C3 is? Quite brutal I found out, let me tell you. Although, oddly enough, it was quite consistent in having only 3 of the 4 launchers hit. I don't think I ever hit with 1, 2 or 4 ever with that build. Very odd.
Of course, there was that one time I equipped the Archer with 3 iAMT-9s and pretty much deleted a Shadow Hawk at close range. It was able to retreat, but it literally had nothing left in it to fight with aside from its legs and a narrow support structure keeping the engine, gyro, and head in place.
It's fun to experiment and play "what if?"
However, I think this week, since it is an "Introtech" week, I may just bring 3 Thunderbolt Variants (5S, 5SS, and 5SE), only slightly modified to trade out the Anti-Infantry weapons for Mech and Vehicle killers.
yeah I tend to focus on logical upgrades. was chatting with some folks earlier tonight and ended up designing a 3150s goblin varient designed to carry battle armor
I try to make themed upgrades. In fact, I tend to avoid logical upgrades because some of the canon designs are specifically illogical.
No better example of this than the basic Thor. It has an LB-10X with 1 ton of ammo, and an LRM15 with 2 tons of ammo. Why take an LB if you're not going to make use of its primary function? And that's aside from the issue of it being criminally under-armed due to integral Jump Jets, but that's the fault of my beloved Falcons, so we just have to live with that.
So it's very easy to fix designs and make them more logical, but that kinda takes some of the fun out of it. So I stick to themed ones, like:
What if I remake some Mad Cat varieites, but all their LRMs are Streak LRMs? What do I have to give up to make that work?
What if I take these ERPPC boats and swap them out for Snub-Nosed PPCs? I know that they're not the best of the PPC weapon, but I love 'em, so I'm going to try.
Can I make interesting IS designs that don't get their role muddled by using MML over LRM/SRMs?
How many armoured components is too many armoured components?
Can a 'Mech with a armoured compact gyro/engine still function?
How fast can I make something with IJJs and a Partial Wing without it being completely worthless?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I try to make themed upgrades. In fact, I tend to avoid logical upgrades because some of the canon designs are specifically illogical.
Another thing I like to do is downgrade Advanced/Experimental designs to either Standard or Introtech (most often to Introtech). I do this because I can then use my more advanced models like the Thanatos or Wendigo in Introtech games.
H.B.M.C. wrote: NHow fast can I make something with IJJs and a Partial Wing without it being completely worthless?
That's a fun one. I usually like to have it be a C3 mule who is just there to spot, usually left with a Medium Laser or similar to pop in someone's back at opportunity. Last one I made had a 5/8/10 movement. It was a low BV game, so I was having it spot for dual Gauss and dual ATM boats on Medium chassis' that moved like Urbanmechs. It's TMM was pretty dang good.
For Succession War work, though, the Spider and OstScout are just amazing.
I've kinda unusually quiet in that department, as of late.
Mostly the last thing I did was hevier versions of the bug mechs (Stinger, Wasp, mainly) to account for the bigger size of the RRT minis, trying to keep as similar a profile as possible, but bigger.
This is a bit of a random question, but has anyone seen Terran Hegemony decals available anywhere? I couldn't find them from FPG and shot Brian a message to see if he'd offer them, but maybe one of the un-sanctioned sellers has offered them? I'm working on some Age of War forces right now.
due to integral Jump Jets, but that's the fault of my beloved Falcons,
I believe i have found your problem, silly birds
bah leave the falcon alone, didn't your parents teach you not to kick someone when they're down? and between all the stuff that's happened in the MWDA era the Jade Falcons are definatly down. poor blighters
due to integral Jump Jets, but that's the fault of my beloved Falcons,
I believe i have found your problem, silly birds
bah leave the falcon alone, didn't your parents teach you not to kick someone when they're down? and between all the stuff that's happened in the MWDA era the Jade Falcons are definatly down. poor blighters
They're better off than the Hellions and Horses, though.
due to integral Jump Jets, but that's the fault of my beloved Falcons,
I believe i have found your problem, silly birds
bah leave the falcon alone, didn't your parents teach you not to kick someone when they're down? and between all the stuff that's happened in the MWDA era the Jade Falcons are definatly down. poor blighters
They're better off than the Hellions and Horses, though.
Horses are mostly fine these days. the jade falcons where reduced to about 100 warriors, whose job is to play bodyguard to a wolf ilkhan
True- but as a devout Falcon myself, that was about all we could hope for after Hazen's rampages and atrocities. The Falcons were in danger of becoming worse than the Word of Blake, and that takes some doing. Being given a chance to rebuild with honor is more than I expected.
Gitzbitah wrote: True- but as a devout Falcon myself, that was about all we could hope for after Hazen's rampages and atrocities. The Falcons were in danger of becoming worse than the Word of Blake, and that takes some doing. Being given a chance to rebuild with honor is more than I expected.
ohh agreed. as it is though Malvina Hazen is part of a bigger problem battletech has, that of "insane leaders leading their factions to ruin" it's a huge problem and a problem made worse by the fact that it's become such an obvious trope everyone see's it coming. no one was suprised by what happened to the jade falcons, likewise no one was suprised the Caleb was used essentially as a clumsy tool to wreck the federated suns etc.
Oh jeez please don’t infect Dakka Dakka with this Malvina hate trash meme. Malvina is the uttermost epitome of CJF. Those who can accept being Alaric Steiner-Davion’s pets, please line up to turn in your Bird Cards.
Manchu wrote: Oh jeez please don’t infect Dakka Dakka with this Malvina hate trash meme. Malvina is the uttermost epitome of CJF. Those who can accept being Alaric Steiner-Davion’s pets, please line up to turn in your Bird Cards.
She's only the Epitome of the Jade Falcons if your only knowledge of the falcons outside of her comes from the Animated Series and you think Jade Falcons are supposed to be saturday morning cartoon villians
I don't understand your obsession with avoiding parade color schemes, heck half the IS house units use appropriate cammo to the environment if that is the way you want to go(and sometimes it is their official parade colors like the 2nd deirons using black/green cammo for parade)
otherwise what you have done looks like-
The 7th or 4th crucis lancers for the davions
and for the kurita forces.
the 6th benjamin regulars or one of the many new smarkand regulars units that use tans/browns with red highlights
Cammospecs online is your friend for all things battletech colors.
Korthu wrote: Just a quick question. What unit does the Battlemaster on the cover of the rulebox belong to? The blue one with the red and white strip. I can't figure it out but I like that color scheme.
Thanks.
-K
Well, I hope you realize, this was entirely your fault:
aphyon wrote: I don't understand your obsession with avoiding parade color schemes,
Likewise, I don’t understand the obsession with parade paint schemes. Most of them are hideous. Even more of them look basically the same as many others. CamoSpecs is real amateur hour stuff quite literally, with zero advantage over me making up something I like better.
aphyon wrote: I don't understand your obsession with avoiding parade color schemes,
Likewise, I don’t understand the obsession with parade paint schemes. Most of them are hideous. Even more of them look basically the same as many others. CamoSpecs is real amateur hour stuff quite literally, with zero advantage over me making up something I like better.
I think your approach is more in line with the HBS Battletech video game approach to faction schemes and fits the modern aesthetic well but before that the way you generally saw mechs were in the different parade schemes or suitable camo. Before that, I think people were pretty used to doing either the parade schemes following Camospecs guides (which are extensions of the info from the source books), or appropriate camo schemes. I dig what you're doing and see how you get there, but don't knock down what's been established. Both are fair approaches.
No idea what this means. Point is, CamoSpecs is the result of other fans picking what they like — which is literally what I do, too. The only difference is, I’m picking what I like rather than what some other fan likes. I’ve been into BT long, long previous to the HBS game and I think you’ll find the oldest approach to painting mechs is painting them however it suits you, esp considering the “my guys” merc focus of a lot of the BT hobby.
Just gonna reiterate my actual question: green head/torso with brown limbs seem suitable for a generic Capellan look?
No idea what this means. Point is, CamoSpecs is the result of other fans picking what they like — which is literally what I do, too. The only difference is, I’m picking what I like rather than what some other fan likes. I’ve been into BT long, long previous to the HBS game and I think you’ll find the oldest approach to painting mechs is painting them however it suits you, esp considering the “my guys” merc focus of a lot of the BT hobby.
Just gonna reiterate my actual question: green head/torso with brown limbs seem suitable for a generic Capellan look?
Fair enough. I'm not an expert but for some reason my first thought for Capellans is brighter green with yellow instead of the brown?
Bright green with yellow is too close to CJF for me. I will use something brighter than olive to be sure but I still want something that looks fairly credible as military hardware.
For my Clanners, I don’t mind that they look like brightly colored clowns
themselves.
)
