Rihgu wrote: only 375 points for a command squad equivalent with power weapons. We get to re-roll 1s against Independent Characters and Primarchs, and cost 100 points more than the jump-pack equipped dawnbreaker cohort/locutarus storm squadron, or 140ish points more than a similarly equipped ACTUAL command squad. Wtf?
Oh, right, banestrike bolters!
I'm getting the feeling that GW is overpriced power weapons on Sons of Horus because they want Sons of Horus to be good at killing unarmored things (so comparatively cheap chainswords, chainaxes but abhorrently expensive power weapons and better on our unique weapons).
Not a useful niche to be in the Horus Heresy.
I can't check myself right now, but can command squads purchase boarding shields?
Rihgu wrote: only 375 points for a command squad equivalent with power weapons. We get to re-roll 1s against Independent Characters and Primarchs, and cost 100 points more than the jump-pack equipped dawnbreaker cohort/locutarus storm squadron, or 140ish points more than a similarly equipped ACTUAL command squad. Wtf?
Oh, right, banestrike bolters!
I'm getting the feeling that GW is overpriced power weapons on Sons of Horus because they want Sons of Horus to be good at killing unarmored things (so comparatively cheap chainswords, chainaxes but abhorrently expensive power weapons and better on our unique weapons).
Not a useful niche to be in the Horus Heresy.
I can't check myself right now, but can command squads purchase boarding shields?
Yes, at 5ppm (which feels overpriced). So basically these guys trade basic artificer armor for boarding shields and then have to pay 5ppm to get artificer armor. Then they pay 2x as much for power weapons as command squads.
The only thing that "feels right" points wise here is their built-in banestrike bolters, which cost 2ppm on veterans and if we assume artificer armor and boarding shields are both 5ppm, 18points for command squad vs 20points for chieftain is fine.
They're fine, I guess. But the drip feed of heads and shoulders 'for later' seems like a consistent waste of a thursday preview slot. Apart from the really bizarro helmets, there really isn't anything to see or say.
Voss wrote: They're fine, I guess. But the drip feed of heads and shoulders 'for later' seems like a consistent waste of a thursday preview slot. Apart from the really bizarro helmets, there really isn't anything to see or say.
Yeah, it does feel a bit of a waste of time if you have no ETA on when they are being released. "We will be releasing White Scars heads and shoulder pads at some point". Cool, we all assumed you would, just like how you will for every other legion. Without the "when", feels kind of pointless.
It does increasingly seem like they are just playing for time as they can't produce stuff fast enough at the moment. All these legion specific extras should have been there day 1, when people had 40 space marines who would have looked really nice with some legion specific gear
But I'd prefer plastics to hunting down files that can pass for official, and most have been DMCA'd before I even started.
The bigger bugbear for me is when the 3d print versions don't almost exactly match the official mini. If I already have a couple units of something using official minis and I'm looking to add some more, if theres a noticeable size difference or a difference in the level of detail then to me those files are not usable. Big reason why I never bother 3d printing stuff that isn't already released - if I like the official sculpts better then the 3d prints basically become worthless as they aren't going to match up exactly.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Any firm confirmation on the UK price for the Leviathan yet? I *could* extrapolate from the EU price but GW exchange rates are so random it seems a bit pointless.
Go to gw site, very bottom games workshop submenu, retailerr(leads to , https://trade.games-workshop.com/), view all resources, from drop down guidance docs, order forms. Here you can find price lists. Sunday preorders next week announced, Monday price available.
And prices aren't random as such. If you find matching price it's same.
I don’t know about the RotW, but as someone in the US I have to set the site to the UK region when first asked. Otherwise the price lists won’t show up for me. From there take the £47.50 price of the leviathan and find something that is the same price on the UK site, the Impulsor is £47.50. Then change the region to your local currency, €62.50 or $80.
Voss wrote: They're fine, I guess. But the drip feed of heads and shoulders 'for later' seems like a consistent waste of a thursday preview slot. Apart from the really bizarro helmets, there really isn't anything to see or say.
Yeah, it does feel a bit of a waste of time if you have no ETA on when they are being released. "We will be releasing White Scars heads and shoulder pads at some point". Cool, we all assumed you would, just like how you will for every other legion. Without the "when", feels kind of pointless.
It does increasingly seem like they are just playing for time as they can't produce stuff fast enough at the moment. All these legion specific extras should have been there day 1, when people had 40 space marines who would have looked really nice with some legion specific gear
Well yes but...then when they release the upgrades(2,4,6mo) later and you see how "cool" they are you'll wanna buy more. I was genuinely surprised that the old deimos doors fit the new kit, would have thought they'd be just different enuff to not be compatible.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Quite underwhelming heads for the scars. A top knot and a few extra studs for the most part, the paint job is what makes them interesting.
Voss wrote: They're fine, I guess. But the drip feed of heads and shoulders 'for later' seems like a consistent waste of a thursday preview slot. Apart from the really bizarro helmets, there really isn't anything to see or say.
Yeah, it does feel a bit of a waste of time if you have no ETA on when they are being released. "We will be releasing White Scars heads and shoulder pads at some point". Cool, we all assumed you would, just like how you will for every other legion. Without the "when", feels kind of pointless.
It does increasingly seem like they are just playing for time as they can't produce stuff fast enough at the moment. All these legion specific extras should have been there day 1, when people had 40 space marines who would have looked really nice with some legion specific gear
Yeah. I haven't even opened age of darkness. No point as I actually want to get the EC upgrades before I start.
Voss wrote: They're fine, I guess. But the drip feed of heads and shoulders 'for later' seems like a consistent waste of a thursday preview slot. Apart from the really bizarro helmets, there really isn't anything to see or say.
Yeah, it does feel a bit of a waste of time if you have no ETA on when they are being released. "We will be releasing White Scars heads and shoulder pads at some point". Cool, we all assumed you would, just like how you will for every other legion. Without the "when", feels kind of pointless.
It does increasingly seem like they are just playing for time as they can't produce stuff fast enough at the moment. All these legion specific extras should have been there day 1, when people had 40 space marines who would have looked really nice with some legion specific gear
Yeah. I haven't even opened age of darkness. No point as I actually want to get the EC upgrades before I start.
Same thing for my Iron Hands. Even both of the books are still wrapped in foil.
Voss wrote: They're fine, I guess. But the drip feed of heads and shoulders 'for later' seems like a consistent waste of a thursday preview slot. Apart from the really bizarro helmets, there really isn't anything to see or say.
I am working on my Tsons now. I can't wait until they reveal the Tsons upgrades in September, so that I can buy them in December and finish working on my Tsons. You know, the ones I'm working on right now. In July. I just love waiting for things that should have been part of the launch.
Voss wrote: They're fine, I guess. But the drip feed of heads and shoulders 'for later' seems like a consistent waste of a thursday preview slot. Apart from the really bizarro helmets, there really isn't anything to see or say.
I am working on my Tsons now. I can't wait until they reveal the Tsons upgrades in September, so that I can buy them in December and finish working on my Tsons. You know, the ones I'm working on right now. In July. I just love waiting for things that should have been part of the launch.
Yeah it’s kinda backfiring. I’ve put the brakes on anything I can only use for 30k, since I want to see what they have in store for iron hands. Gonna stick strictly to vehicles and not buy any more infantry than came with the starter box.
Are ya'll doing _every_ marine with the upgrades? The Salamanders I'm working on are just the mk6 kits plus a squad of mk3's with the old FW upgrades for a veteran squad. Then, if I'm feeling saucy, get a mk6 Salamander set when they get released maybe to make some guys with "artificer" armor. Logistically I can't fathom how a Legion receiving a resupply of mass produced powered armor would then have the time to redecorate everything before use...
judgedoug wrote: Are ya'll doing _every_ marine with the upgrades? The Salamanders I'm working on are just the mk6 kits plus a squad of mk3's with the old FW upgrades for a veteran squad. Then, if I'm feeling saucy, get a mk6 Salamander set when they get released maybe to make some guys with "artificer" armor. Logistically I can't fathom how a Legion receiving a resupply of mass produced powered armor would then have the time to redecorate everything before use...
some legions work a bit better with the default stuff then others, the IFs for example I see no pressing need to get the upgrades for
judgedoug wrote: Are ya'll doing _every_ marine with the upgrades? The Salamanders I'm working on are just the mk6 kits plus a squad of mk3's with the old FW upgrades for a veteran squad. Then, if I'm feeling saucy, get a mk6 Salamander set when they get released maybe to make some guys with "artificer" armor. Logistically I can't fathom how a Legion receiving a resupply of mass produced powered armor would then have the time to redecorate everything before use...
My plan was to only do my three Veteran Squads and my Special Weapons and Heavy Weapons squads with the upgrades. For my basic legionaries, I'm using upgrade heads for the sergeants only.
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Boosykes wrote: What happend to the dark angel heads? When do they drop?
We don't know. The implication has been that it might be months before ANY of these heads are available for purchase.
judgedoug wrote: Are ya'll doing _every_ marine with the upgrades? The Salamanders I'm working on are just the mk6 kits plus a squad of mk3's with the old FW upgrades for a veteran squad. Then, if I'm feeling saucy, get a mk6 Salamander set when they get released maybe to make some guys with "artificer" armor. Logistically I can't fathom how a Legion receiving a resupply of mass produced powered armor would then have the time to redecorate everything before use...
Before my army got stolen, all of the infantry had Salamander heads & pauldrons, all vehicles had Salamander specific iconography(etched brass, doors, etc), & characters had other upgrades(cybernetics, etc). I'm kinda peeved that the 18th's stuff isn't out but it's not gonna stop me as I have a bunch of Salamander bits & I'll say keep the mkvi plain(with some random variation in pauldrons) and adorn my replacement mkiii/iv as true veterans with all the associated bling or whatever.
Luckily as Blood Angels I can just add in a few shoulders here and there from the 40k kits. They aren't perfect and I wouldn't want too many of them in there, but the odd sergeant or special guy with a primaris shoulder pad looks ok. Then again, I've mixed in a bunch of Mark IV heads and shoulder pads into the mix as well, as I just think it looks better for 30k to have a bit of a ramshackle bunch of mismatched and partially upgraded gear.
Still, would be nice to actually have the option of putting proper 30k blood angels gear on some of them as well, really can't see any decent reason not to have had all these things ready on release. Particularly rough on those armies that are a bit unique and really need a bit of glamming up
But I'd prefer plastics to hunting down files that can pass for official, and most have been DMCA'd before I even started.
The bigger bugbear for me is when the 3d print versions don't almost exactly match the official mini. If I already have a couple units of something using official minis and I'm looking to add some more, if theres a noticeable size difference or a difference in the level of detail then to me those files are not usable. Big reason why I never bother 3d printing stuff that isn't already released - if I like the official sculpts better then the 3d prints basically become worthless as they aren't going to match up exactly.
Well, GW basically invalidated their entire infantry range with the scale change, so either I'm waiting months or years until they replace it, or I just print everything, not give GW a dime, and not care how the official models will look. They did this to themselves. I'm even gonna splurge for a new 8k, large plate printer, it costs as much as 10 resin jetbikes that aren't even scaled to the new plastics. And I need way more than 10.
But I'd prefer plastics to hunting down files that can pass for official, and most have been DMCA'd before I even started.
The bigger bugbear for me is when the 3d print versions don't almost exactly match the official mini. If I already have a couple units of something using official minis and I'm looking to add some more, if theres a noticeable size difference or a difference in the level of detail then to me those files are not usable. Big reason why I never bother 3d printing stuff that isn't already released - if I like the official sculpts better then the 3d prints basically become worthless as they aren't going to match up exactly.
Well, GW basically invalidated their entire infantry range with the scale change, so either I'm waiting months or years until they replace it, or I just print everything, not give GW a dime, and not care how the official models will look. They did this to themselves. I'm even gonna splurge for a new 8k, large plate printer, it costs as much as 10 resin jetbikes that aren't even scaled to the new plastics. And I need way more than 10.
I agree, though I will still buy the excellent plastic miniatures, this has made me make the plunge into 3d printing myself. I'm even playing Sons of Horus, and I can't purchase head upgrades, due to them being sold out.
Well, GW basically invalidated their entire infantry range with the scale change, so either I'm waiting months or years until they replace it, or I just print everything, not give GW a dime, and not care how the official models will look. They did this to themselves. I'm even gonna splurge for a new 8k, large plate printer, it costs as much as 10 resin jetbikes that aren't even scaled to the new plastics. And I need way more than 10.
I don't really think the scale change is noticeable?
My mark III, IV, V (Forgeworld) and VI all look to be within normal human variation.
I've attached a couple of photos. Certainly on the table top I don't imagine it would be noticeable.
Frankly, I don't think the regular Marines are remotely the biggest victim of scale creep - but it is very noticeable in case of Terminators and Characters. Some of the new characters, and especially Terminator ones literally tower head-and-shoulders over the earlier, more squat, regular Termies.
I really wish there were a plastic terminator kit in that sort of big scale. Terminators should feel chunky and imposing. Perhaps the rumoured primaris terminators
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Frankly, I don't think the regular Marines are remotely the biggest victim of scale creep - but it is very noticeable in case of Terminators and Characters. Some of the new characters, and especially Terminator ones literally tower head-and-shoulders over the earlier, more squat, regular Termies.
What model is that on the right? It looks quite nice if a bit ornate.
It’s Tartaros. The store description is wrong. It’s pretty damn obvious in that photo of it side by side with normal Tartaros that they’re the same base armour.
Crimson wrote: I really wish there were a plastic terminator kit in that sort of big scale. Terminators should feel chunky and imposing. Perhaps the rumoured primaris terminators
If you can stomach 3rd party sellers, Tortuga bay produce amazing gigantic terminators that still require GW parts.
ImAGeek wrote: It’s Tartaros. The store description is wrong. It’s pretty damn obvious in that photo of it side by side with normal Tartaros that they’re the same base armour.
Except that Tartaros armor doesn't have the double plated shoulders, like cataphracti does which are present.
ImAGeek wrote: It’s Tartaros. The store description is wrong. It’s pretty damn obvious in that photo of it side by side with normal Tartaros that they’re the same base armour.
Except that Tartaros armor doesn't have the double plated shoulders, like cataphracti does which are present.
So the fact that an artificer has fitted another layer of armour over the plain shoulder pads turns it from Tartaros armour to another pattern? I’m not even convinced the shoulders are different to normal Tartaros pads. They look like a pad over a pad shaped area, which is exactly what Tartaros is like, just with different shaped pads and massive trim.
I'm gonna end this discussion once and for all, you can quite easily tell it's a Tartaros just by looking at the model's back. Cataphractii and Tartaros models have completely differently looking power packs and vent designs, which are also keep almost the exact same between different characters in said armour, not changing depending on the exact user. As evidence;
Night Lords Praetor (Tartaros)
Blood Angels Praetor (Tartaros)
White Scars Praetor (Cataphractii)
Dark Angels Praetor (Cataphractii)
By comparison with all those models, one can ser the Imperial Fist one has the same structure of his power back and vents as the other Tartaros Terminator Praetors, thus meaning it's Tartaros armour.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I'm gonna end this discussion once and for all, you can quite easily tell it's a Tartaros just by looking at the model's back. Cataphractii and Tartaros models have completely differently looking power packs and vent designs, which are also keep almost the exact same between different characters in said armour, not changing depending on the exact user. As evidence;
Night Lords Praetor (Tartaros)
Blood Angels Praetor (Tartaros)
White Scars Praetor (Cataphractii)
Dark Angels Praetor (Cataphractii)
By comparison with all those models, one can ser the Imperial Fist one has the same structure of his power back and vents as the other Tartaros Terminator Praetors, thus meaning it's Tartaros armour.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I'm gonna end this discussion once and for all, you can quite easily tell it's a Tartaros just by looking at the model's back. Cataphractii and Tartaros models have completely differently looking power packs and vent designs, which are also keep almost the exact same between different characters in said armour, not changing depending on the exact user. As evidence;
Night Lords Praetor (Tartaros)
Blood Angels Praetor (Tartaros)
White Scars Praetor (Cataphractii)
Dark Angels Praetor (Cataphractii)
By comparison with all those models, one can ser the Imperial Fist one has the same structure of his power back and vents as the other Tartaros Terminator Praetors, thus meaning it's Tartaros armour.
Also the same Legs, Arms and Torso.
Aye, aye, of course. I just didn't feel like writing up such a long post when just the backpacks will do the job easily.
Well, GW basically invalidated their entire infantry range with the scale change, so either I'm waiting months or years until they replace it, or I just print everything, not give GW a dime, and not care how the official models will look. They did this to themselves. I'm even gonna splurge for a new 8k, large plate printer, it costs as much as 10 resin jetbikes that aren't even scaled to the new plastics. And I need way more than 10.
I don't really think the scale change is noticeable?
The Salamanders I'm working on are mk6 and mk3, and my Word Bearers are plastic 6, 4 and 3, resin 4 and 5 and whatever ashen circle are (2? 3?) , and one can tell the difference by getting eye level with the models and forming them into a Usual Suspects lineup. Thankfully I don't play games with my head and cheek pressed on the table surface, so there's visually no difference when they're on the table when viewed like a reasonable human being
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I'm gonna end this discussion once and for all, you can quite easily tell it's a Tartaros just by looking at the model's back. Cataphractii and Tartaros models have completely differently looking power packs and vent designs, which are also keep almost the exact same between different characters in said armour, not changing depending on the exact user. As evidence;
Night Lords Praetor (Tartaros)
Blood Angels Praetor (Tartaros)
White Scars Praetor (Cataphractii)
Dark Angels Praetor (Cataphractii)
By comparison with all those models, one can ser the Imperial Fist one has the same structure of his power back and vents as the other Tartaros Terminator Praetors, thus meaning it's Tartaros armour.
Also the same Legs, Arms and Torso.
Aye, aye, of course. I just didn't feel like writing up such a long post when just the backpacks will do the job easily.
ya know here's a thought, we know that sometime DURING the Heresy, Saturine pattern armor was developed. fanon has long used the term for the "early model" look, but what if Saturine armor is a "MK V" terminator armor, that is essentially a blend of both?
BrianDavion wrote: ya know here's a thought, we know that sometime DURING the Heresy, Saturine pattern armor was developed. fanon has long used the term for the "early model" look, but what if Saturine armor is a "MK V" terminator armor, that is essentially a blend of both?
4Unless there's been retcons that i've missed, (and there's every chance of that), isn't this Saturnine pattern armour?
BrianDavion wrote: ya know here's a thought, we know that sometime DURING the Heresy, Saturine pattern armor was developed. fanon has long used the term for the "early model" look, but what if Saturine armor is a "MK V" terminator armor, that is essentially a blend of both?
4Unless there's been retcons that i've missed, (and there's every chance of that), isn't this Saturnine pattern armour?
Has anyone slipped in a squad or two of the Venerated Horus Termies into a game of Space Hulk yet?
As to the scale creep- They work great with older figures, Just as you'd think with the use of handed down equipment. Mixing and matching squads of the different types of armor looks like it's going to give you some variety.
I'm not seeing them to such as extreme as adding in some old school Rogue Trader termies to a set of Moderns, but you can see that there is a slight creep in the scales of the different armors, if you have the two boxed table top game sets, and the new Mark 6 marine contingents.
One thing though- No one told me that this brand of Horus crack was THIS addictive.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Am I missing something with not being able to find the Leviathan up for pre order on the NZ/Aus GW site? Wanted to have a gander at the sprues.
Not available down under for now - was mentioned on last week's WHC preorder page
lord_blackfang wrote: Although to be fair the Mk6 sprues are some of the most stingy product GW has ever made, from the size of the sprues they look like GW crammed an infantry kit into an Aeronautica production slot or something.
Unfortunately true, yes.If they had used the same resources as in the older HH plastic marks (3 full sprues instead of one and a half), they would have been glorious.
By the same token - if they had done that do you think we'd have gotten 40 marines in the Starter box? We'd have gotten 20 instead. The box is already large, and completely stuffed.
BrianDavion wrote: ya know here's a thought, we know that sometime DURING the Heresy, Saturine pattern armor was developed. fanon has long used the term for the "early model" look, but what if Saturine armor is a "MK V" terminator armor, that is essentially a blend of both?
4Unless there's been retcons that i've missed, (and there's every chance of that), isn't this Saturnine pattern armour?
that is a fan assumption, it's never actually been confirmed.
lord_blackfang wrote: Although to be fair the Mk6 sprues are some of the most stingy product GW has ever made, from the size of the sprues they look like GW crammed an infantry kit into an Aeronautica production slot or something.
Unfortunately true, yes.If they had used the same resources as in the older HH plastic marks (3 full sprues instead of one and a half), they would have been glorious.
By the same token - if they had done that do you think we'd have gotten 40 marines in the Starter box? We'd have gotten 20 instead. The box is already large, and completely stuffed.
I... don't really see why not? For each 10 you get in the box you get two duplicated regular sprues and a smaller one. This way you'd get three regular sprues, and that would have fit in the box. Of course, they might have decided that was "too good" of a deal and gone 30 marines instead of 40, but personally I'd have been OK with that.
The levi sprue has 3 different (plain, loyalist, heretic) front plate and groin armour options, so kind of similar to the Adeptus Titanicus titan kits.
Core model, whether shooty or punchy doesn’t seem too bad. And the spare weapons being £16 doesn’t feel too bad, despite we can’t readily get a discount on it as we can the chassis.
But.
Is this a form of Forgeworld Stockholm Syndrome (there’s a pun in there…let me think on it.)?
I mean, neither price is cheap. It’s still a wedge of dosh. Yet it remains markedly cheaper than the resin version, especially if you want a single chassis but every possible loadout.
Rubicon Plasticaris version - £47.50 for the chassis and one set of weapons. Then three weapon seats at £16 (less one if you’re super handy with magnets and fancy doing it for the CCW fingers). Total £95.50
FW? Going off the DA chassis? That’s £58.50. Then the weapons are £15.50 each. And zero chance of any discount ever unless you fancy seeking out a recast, something I do not endorse in the slightest but you do you.
I hadn't paid attention to FW prices but ~60e for a chunky Dreadnought on 80mm base and ~20e for a weapon sprue is pretty much what I expected. I am not saying it's what they should cost, but it's what I did expect.
Just a heads up to anyone waiting on FW stuff to come back in stock. It said out if stock on some things I wanted when looking at them in the menus, but then we're in stock when I actually clicked on them. Hopefully they actually are in stock as its let me put an order in for my Illastrus assault cannons and apothecary pair
Someone pointed out in FB that the highlighted image of Dreadnought arms on weapon sprue product page is misleading because the weapon sprue doesn't include shoulder joints.
BigOscar wrote: Just a heads up to anyone waiting on FW stuff to come back in stock. It said out if stock on some things I wanted when looking at them in the menus, but then we're in stock when I actually clicked on them. Hopefully they actually are in stock as its let me put an order in for my Illastrus assault cannons and apothecary pair
I wouldn't have much faith in that. I ordered a selection of items three weeks ago when the Cataphractii arms came back in stock and it still hasn't shipped.
BigOscar wrote: Just a heads up to anyone waiting on FW stuff to come back in stock. It said out if stock on some things I wanted when looking at them in the menus, but then we're in stock when I actually clicked on them. Hopefully they actually are in stock as its let me put an order in for my Illastrus assault cannons and apothecary pair
I wouldn't have much faith in that. I ordered a selection of items three weeks ago when the Cataphractii arms came back in stock and it still hasn't shipped.
Something I found out recently: The more items in an order, the longer it takes them to send. I did an order with 6 items and it took 2 weeks. Did an order with a single character, shipped the day I ordered it and received it two days later(and before the larger order). My friends and I have been keeping track of our recent orders and the pattern tracks within the entire group.
BigOscar wrote: Just a heads up to anyone waiting on FW stuff to come back in stock. It said out if stock on some things I wanted when looking at them in the menus, but then we're in stock when I actually clicked on them. Hopefully they actually are in stock as its let me put an order in for my Illastrus assault cannons and apothecary pair
I wouldn't have much faith in that. I ordered a selection of items three weeks ago when the Cataphractii arms came back in stock and it still hasn't shipped.
Yeah, I'm not expecting anything anytime soon. At the very least I hope its a back order so will get sent when have it, which is better than the standard "alert" sign up that never happens.
Not really sure why pre/back ordering out of stock stuff isn't an option anyway, seems like a no brainer as you're getting peoples money in advance and helping to know what is in high demand and worth prioritising
BigOscar wrote: Just a heads up to anyone waiting on FW stuff to come back in stock. It said out if stock on some things I wanted when looking at them in the menus, but then we're in stock when I actually clicked on them. Hopefully they actually are in stock as its let me put an order in for my Illastrus assault cannons and apothecary pair
I wouldn't have much faith in that. I ordered a selection of items three weeks ago when the Cataphractii arms came back in stock and it still hasn't shipped.
Yeah, I'm not expecting anything anytime soon. At the very least I hope its a back order so will get sent when have it, which is better than the standard "alert" sign up that never happens.
Not really sure why pre/back ordering out of stock stuff isn't an option anyway, seems like a no brainer as you're getting peoples money in advance and helping to know what is in high demand and worth prioritising
Probably because they don't want to get a string of complaints when it takes them a year to get something back in stock, if it ever comes back in stock.
BigOscar wrote: Just a heads up to anyone waiting on FW stuff to come back in stock. It said out if stock on some things I wanted when looking at them in the menus, but then we're in stock when I actually clicked on them. Hopefully they actually are in stock as its let me put an order in for my Illastrus assault cannons and apothecary pair
I wouldn't have much faith in that. I ordered a selection of items three weeks ago when the Cataphractii arms came back in stock and it still hasn't shipped.
Something I found out recently: The more items in an order, the longer it takes them to send. I did an order with 6 items and it took 2 weeks. Did an order with a single character, shipped the day I ordered it and received it two days later(and before the larger order). My friends and I have been keeping track of our recent orders and the pattern tracks within the entire group.
Then that's pretty worrisome since I only ordered 5 things. Their new tracking software and swap to UPS certainly doesn't help either, because according to one it hasn't been shipped yet (but it never does) and according to the other I have a package on the way that seems to fit the timeframe except it won't tell me who it's from, it's not yet in UPS' custody, I got a notice just a couple of days ago, and the expected delivery date is two weeks ago. For the level of uncertainty, time it takes to deliver, and frequent out of stocks, it's feeling more and more worthwhile to skip Forge World entirely and pursue alternatives, though what those alternatives are... well, that's for each individual to determine for themselves.
Just a side note: I found out yesterday that GW closed its warehouses on Monday and Tuesday because of the weather so some orders to third parties have been delayed; perhaps this is also affecting FW orders this week? Not sure if they use the same warehousing as the main branch.
So I got the Leviathan Dreadnought early and wrote this review, I also took some high-res pictures of the sprues so you can see all the different chest and groin plates:
Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't look like the Leviathan has the same easy-to-magnetize setup as the contemptor. I guess the power cable/shoulder vents makes it more complicated anyway, but it's still a kick in the pants.
Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
Even all the online reviews, don't give any idea of how to really build an army, just what special features the particular legion has. GMG did a decent review of each legion, but honestly seeing a few army list examples and why they work would have been a lot better then just reading from the Libre.
angel of death 007 wrote: Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
Even all the online reviews, don't give any idea of how to really build an army, just what special features the particular legion has. GMG did a decent review of each legion, but honestly seeing a few army list examples and why they work would have been a lot better then just reading from the Libre.
I think that is part of the problem. GW doesn't want to direct people to FW, they want people to stay in the GW plastic eco-system. Sadly most of the cool toys are in resin but I reckons eventually most will be in plastic except the really big stuff like Thunderhawks, Sokar pattern stormbird, glaves, flachion, fellblades etc.
With the spartian in plastic I hope to see the Typhon and Cerberus in plastic eventually. I would LOVE to have a plastic THawk but I don't see it any time soon.
angel of death 007 wrote: Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
Even all the online reviews, don't give any idea of how to really build an army, just what special features the particular legion has. GMG did a decent review of each legion, but honestly seeing a few army list examples and why they work would have been a lot better then just reading from the Libre.
I think that is part of the problem. GW doesn't want to direct people to FW, they want people to stay in the GW plastic eco-system. Sadly most of the cool toys are in resin but I reckons eventually most will be in plastic except the really big stuff like Thunderhawks, Sokar pattern stormbird, glaves, flachion, fellblades etc.
With the spartian in plastic I hope to see the Typhon and Cerberus in plastic eventually. I would LOVE to have a plastic THawk but I don't see it any time soon.
Big kits depend on market share, and how often they see the field I suppose.
Horus Heresy of course has an advantage over 40K, as both the main forces use the same kits. So, where say a Bandeblade only appeal to Guard players, and to a lesser extent Imperial players, a Glaive, Falcion, Mastodon etc is going to appeal an easy majority of people playing Horus Heresy, because all of that easy majority can field them. So the fair investment for GW is much more likely pay off.
The game itself has a pretty loyal and big spending backbone of players, whose money has allowed Horus Heresy to get to this stage in the first place. And the bigger their armies, being predominantly narrative driven, the bigger the games, and so the bigger the resulting spend. And I’m not joking when I say the chums that have been doing Heresy since it released have spent thousands on it, and are now spending more on plastic.
I dare say I’m far from alone at wanting Big Kits, and being perfectly happy to buy them, but being strongly adverse to working in resin (any resin. Don’t like the feel, the extra prep, the heft, the need for super or epoxy glue). Put them in plastic? And I’ll buy them. Possibly one of each for variety.
Horus Heresy of course has an advantage over 40K, as both the main forces use the same kits. So, where say a Bandeblade only appeal to Guard players, and to a lesser extent Imperial players, a Glaive, Falcion, Mastodon etc is going to appeal an easy majority of people playing Horus Heresy, because all of that easy majority can field them. So the fair investment for GW is much more likely pay off.
There are many basic kits that should be coming before they release super heavies but as you said, since they appeal to most of the HH playerbase I would expect them to be coming at some point.
Typhon/Cerberus should be pretty easy since we already have the Spartan chassis and Fellblade/Glaive/Falchion are only Baneblade size I think? so should also be possible especially since they can be made as a single kit with different builds (maybe with the Falchion as a seperate kit)
Mastodon/Thunderhawk/Stormbird would be a different class so I wouldn't expect them for now until HH gets bigger.
Another thing is 40k Space Marines also don't have any plastic Lords of War so I could also see them appeal to many 40k players who want a big center piece model
Yeah I have been wondering how many Leviathans they will be selling to (primarily or exclusively) 40K players either to use as Leviathans with the CP tax or as proxy Redemptors.
angel of death 007 wrote: Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
Even all the online reviews, don't give any idea of how to really build an army, just what special features the particular legion has. GMG did a decent review of each legion, but honestly seeing a few army list examples and why they work would have been a lot better then just reading from the Libre.
That's because HH doesn't work like 40K. There isn't really a master list that rules them all for each faction. Having a mix of thematic units is the intention and encouraged. My list changes nearly every game, depending on how I feel the battle should go off.
angel of death 007 wrote: Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
Even all the online reviews, don't give any idea of how to really build an army, just what special features the particular legion has. GMG did a decent review of each legion, but honestly seeing a few army list examples and why they work would have been a lot better then just reading from the Libre.
I think that is part of the problem. GW doesn't want to direct people to FW, they want people to stay in the GW plastic eco-system. Sadly most of the cool toys are in resin but I reckons eventually most will be in plastic except the really big stuff like Thunderhawks, Sokar pattern stormbird, glaves, flachion, fellblades etc.
With the spartian in plastic I hope to see the Typhon and Cerberus in plastic eventually. I would LOVE to have a plastic THawk but I don't see it any time soon.
Big kits depend on market share, and how often they see the field I suppose.
Horus Heresy of course has an advantage over 40K, as both the main forces use the same kits. So, where say a Bandeblade only appeal to Guard players, and to a lesser extent Imperial players, a Glaive, Falcion, Mastodon etc is going to appeal an easy majority of people playing Horus Heresy, because all of that easy majority can field them. So the fair investment for GW is much more likely pay off.
The game itself has a pretty loyal and big spending backbone of players, whose money has allowed Horus Heresy to get to this stage in the first place. And the bigger their armies, being predominantly narrative driven, the bigger the games, and so the bigger the resulting spend. And I’m not joking when I say the chums that have been doing Heresy since it released have spent thousands on it, and are now spending more on plastic.
I dare say I’m far from alone at wanting Big Kits, and being perfectly happy to buy them, but being strongly adverse to working in resin (any resin. Don’t like the feel, the extra prep, the heft, the need for super or epoxy glue). Put them in plastic? And I’ll buy them. Possibly one of each for variety.
This. We've already got folks here in my area who are painting custom colors so that they can just buy one army and play any of the legions they want on demand.
angel of death 007 wrote: Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
Even all the online reviews, don't give any idea of how to really build an army, just what special features the particular legion has. GMG did a decent review of each legion, but honestly seeing a few army list examples and why they work would have been a lot better then just reading from the Libre.
From my particular point of view of the 30k ecosystem, I can offer my idea of the reasoning behind this. I'm a new player, have not played a game yet, but I am a member of my local 30k community's groups (fb, etc) and I also see almost no list-building discussion or army list posts or any of the stuff one typically associates with 40k (and to a lesser extent, AOS). However, I see tons of posts about theming armies, and several events that are based around certain campaigns or battles. I've been slowly reading the 30k rulebook and just last night got to the "Battle in the Age of Darkness" section, and they go into great pains to discuss how Narrative and Campaign/Scenario play are the primary methods to play the Heresy. Matched play is given a brief mention at the end of the section as an alternative. Based on the evidence at hand, from the direction of the rulebook to the local community/events, it just seems that "lists" and "listbuilding" are secondary at best, and probably simply tertiary to the background and hobby aspects of any particular force. Significantly greater attention seems to be paid to an army's Reason/Theme and Hobby/Painting and there's almost no discussion of listbuilding. Perhaps I am merely in an isolated pocket, but I see this reflected across most other groups/forums etc that I lurk in. Add to this the fact that the standard response to "what legion/models should I play/buy" is almost always "whatever one looks cool to you, and whatever models you like" reinforces this. With this comfortably cementing into my mind, I've been realizing that as I assemble and paint my toys, I'm paying much less attention to finagling the best combos and optimum wargear choices, which is mentally exhausing and incredibly boring, to just simply picking what looks the coolest or makes the most sense to fit the background of my army, which really invigorates me and gets me really excited to get my army to a playable state.
tl;dr listbuilding is refreshingly not the point of 30k
angel of death 007 wrote: Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
Even all the online reviews, don't give any idea of how to really build an army, just what special features the particular legion has. GMG did a decent review of each legion, but honestly seeing a few army list examples and why they work would have been a lot better then just reading from the Libre.
From my particular point of view of the 30k ecosystem, I can offer my idea of the reasoning behind this. I'm a new player, have not played a game yet, but I am a member of my local 30k community's groups (fb, etc) and I also see almost no list-building discussion or army list posts or any of the stuff one typically associates with 40k (and to a lesser extent, AOS). However, I see tons of posts about theming armies, and several events that are based around certain campaigns or battles. I've been slowly reading the 30k rulebook and just last night got to the "Battle in the Age of Darkness" section, and they go into great pains to discuss how Narrative and Campaign/Scenario play are the primary methods to play the Heresy. Matched play is given a brief mention at the end of the section as an alternative. Based on the evidence at hand, from the direction of the rulebook to the local community/events, it just seems that "lists" and "listbuilding" are secondary at best, and probably simply tertiary to the background and hobby aspects of any particular force. Significantly greater attention seems to be paid to an army's Reason/Theme and Hobby/Painting and there's almost no discussion of listbuilding. Perhaps I am merely in an isolated pocket, but I see this reflected across most other groups/forums etc that I lurk in. Add to this the fact that the standard response to "what legion/models should I play/buy" is almost always "whatever one looks cool to you, and whatever models you like" reinforces this. With this comfortably cementing into my mind, I've been realizing that as I assemble and paint my toys, I'm paying much less attention to finagling the best combos and optimum wargear choices, which is mentally exhausing and incredibly boring, to just simply picking what looks the coolest or makes the most sense to fit the background of my army, which really invigorates me and gets me really excited to get my army to a playable state.
tl;dr listbuilding is refreshingly not the point of 30k
This. My whole point of playing and collecting 30K is not to win matched play, but to tell a story with my Legion. I have long been building a Loyalist Emperor's Children force, and the HH release simply put my goals in order. Originally my plan (8 years ago or so) was just to collect a 3000 point force. Now, with the plastic support coming from GW and four other friends jumping into HH (WB, WE, WS and DA respectively), I can look forward to actually playing...so I now want to try a lot of different units and ideas. And so I now have added a Glaive to partner with a Fellblade. I wonder if the Mastodon will make it into plastic...
Also, I prefer this rule set than 9th ed (but I prefer the current AoS...odd).
angel of death 007 wrote: Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
Even all the online reviews, don't give any idea of how to really build an army, just what special features the particular legion has. GMG did a decent review of each legion, but honestly seeing a few army list examples and why they work would have been a lot better then just reading from the Libre.
From my particular point of view of the 30k ecosystem, I can offer my idea of the reasoning behind this. I'm a new player, have not played a game yet, but I am a member of my local 30k community's groups (fb, etc) and I also see almost no list-building discussion or army list posts or any of the stuff one typically associates with 40k (and to a lesser extent, AOS). However, I see tons of posts about theming armies, and several events that are based around certain campaigns or battles. I've been slowly reading the 30k rulebook and just last night got to the "Battle in the Age of Darkness" section, and they go into great pains to discuss how Narrative and Campaign/Scenario play are the primary methods to play the Heresy. Matched play is given a brief mention at the end of the section as an alternative. Based on the evidence at hand, from the direction of the rulebook to the local community/events, it just seems that "lists" and "listbuilding" are secondary at best, and probably simply tertiary to the background and hobby aspects of any particular force. Significantly greater attention seems to be paid to an army's Reason/Theme and Hobby/Painting and there's almost no discussion of listbuilding. Perhaps I am merely in an isolated pocket, but I see this reflected across most other groups/forums etc that I lurk in. Add to this the fact that the standard response to "what legion/models should I play/buy" is almost always "whatever one looks cool to you, and whatever models you like" reinforces this. With this comfortably cementing into my mind, I've been realizing that as I assemble and paint my toys, I'm paying much less attention to finagling the best combos and optimum wargear choices, which is mentally exhausing and incredibly boring, to just simply picking what looks the coolest or makes the most sense to fit the background of my army, which really invigorates me and gets me really excited to get my army to a playable state.
tl;dr listbuilding is refreshingly not the point of 30k
This. My whole point of playing and collecting 30K is not to win matched play, but to tell a story with my Legion. I have long been building a Loyalist Emperor's Children force, and the HH release simply put my goals in order. Originally my plan (8 years ago or so) was just to collect a 3000 point force. Now, with the plastic support coming from GW and four other friends jumping into HH (WB, WE, WS and DA respectively), I can look forward to actually playing...so I now want to try a lot of different units and ideas. And so I now have added a Glaive to partner with a Fellblade. I wonder if the Mastodon will make it into plastic...
Also, I prefer this rule set than 9th ed (but I prefer the current AoS...odd).
The Mastadon is one I can't even guess at. It would be one heck of an amazing kjt in plastic. I hope it comes, I'll buy three.
But I am now almost certain that a plastic Fellblade/Glaive kit will appear at some point in the near future. It will work well as a dual kit and I'm sure it will sell well.
The Mastadon is one I can't even guess at. It would be one heck of an amazing kjt in plastic. I hope it comes, I'll buy three.
But I am now almost certain that a plastic Fellblade/Glaive kit will appear at some point in the near future. It will work well as a dual kit and I'm sure it will sell well.
If they do make a dual or triple Fellblade/Glaive(/Falchion) I will probably buy 2-3 of them. And for a plastic Mastadon, yeah, 3 sounds about right. The crazy thing it that I can see these being $175-$200, and I'm OK with that.
angel of death 007 wrote: Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
From my experience, it's down to the nature of the game.
HH unlike 40k has almost no competitive ecosystem and while there have been some serious wombo-combos in the past (Deathstars, Magnus, Thousand Sons in general), the idea of the game is to play the story of the setting. You see a lot of HH events but they aren't tournaments they are narrative events, indeed when Warhammer World hosted a HH tournament recently instead of a narrative weekender (which is the norm) there was significant backlash from the wider HH online community.
The focus on narrative has led to some rather undesirable behaviour from certain people within the online community who very loudly and often declared that an influx of players would "ruin" HH and turn it into the mess we see with competitive 40k. Of course, they've been proven wrong already but they keep on shouting about it.
Even all the online reviews, don't give any idea of how to really build an army, just what special features the particular legion has. GMG did a decent review of each legion, but honestly seeing a few army list examples and why they work would have been a lot better then just reading from the Libre.
I would wager that is down to the fact there is no magic button to make a "good" HH army. The Legion list is exceptionally forgiving with army creation and the Rites of War mean that generally speaking everything has a place. Obviously, you can't just take Legion Scouts and expect to win but themed lists aren't punished nearly as much as they are in 40k.
The specific emphasis on NOT MATCHED PLAY is really what's drawing me to 30k and away from 40k(well 40k was doing a pretty good job pushing me away on its own).
angel of death 007 wrote: Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
From my experience, it's down to the nature of the game.
HH unlike 40k has almost no competitive ecosystem and while there have been some serious wombo-combos in the past (Deathstars, Magnus, Thousand Sons in general), the idea of the game is to play the story of the setting. You see a lot of HH events but they aren't tournaments they are narrative events, indeed when Warhammer World hosted a HH tournament recently instead of a narrative weekender (which is the norm) there was significant backlash from the wider HH online community.
The focus on narrative has led to some rather undesirable behaviour from certain people within the online community who very loudly and often declared that an influx of players would "ruin" HH and turn it into the mess we see with competitive 40k. Of course, they've been proven wrong already but they keep on shouting about it.
I'm not going to lie, the more they shout about it the more I want competitive 30K to happen out of spite.
angel of death 007 wrote: Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
From my experience, it's down to the nature of the game.
HH unlike 40k has almost no competitive ecosystem and while there have been some serious wombo-combos in the past (Deathstars, Magnus, Thousand Sons in general), the idea of the game is to play the story of the setting. You see a lot of HH events but they aren't tournaments they are narrative events, indeed when Warhammer World hosted a HH tournament recently instead of a narrative weekender (which is the norm) there was significant backlash from the wider HH online community.
The focus on narrative has led to some rather undesirable behaviour from certain people within the online community who very loudly and often declared that an influx of players would "ruin" HH and turn it into the mess we see with competitive 40k. Of course, they've been proven wrong already but they keep on shouting about it.
I'm not going to lie, the more they shout about it the more I want competitive 30K to happen out of spite.
I don't I want to see those elitist gate keepers proven wrong.
angel of death 007 wrote: Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
From my experience, it's down to the nature of the game.
HH unlike 40k has almost no competitive ecosystem and while there have been some serious wombo-combos in the past (Deathstars, Magnus, Thousand Sons in general), the idea of the game is to play the story of the setting. You see a lot of HH events but they aren't tournaments they are narrative events, indeed when Warhammer World hosted a HH tournament recently instead of a narrative weekender (which is the norm) there was significant backlash from the wider HH online community.
The focus on narrative has led to some rather undesirable behaviour from certain people within the online community who very loudly and often declared that an influx of players would "ruin" HH and turn it into the mess we see with competitive 40k. Of course, they've been proven wrong already but they keep on shouting about it.
I'm not going to lie, the more they shout about it the more I want competitive 30K to happen out of spite.
GW kicked off HH2 with a tournament. I don't think abandoning 'competitive' was ever in the cards.
Making an incredibly good HH army isn't exactly difficult tbf, quite a lot of things are just very cost effective compared ot others, but it would just be incredibly cheesy and you'd get a ton of stick for suggesting it, rather than the appreciation min/maxed 40k armies might get online.
The community just doesn't really want to see maxed out, super effective armies it seems and hopefully it stays that way. They are far more interested in seeing a really fun, cool looking army full of conversions and cool aesthetics and interesting setting/narrative
BrianDavion wrote: I don't I want to see those elitist gate keepers proven wrong.
So we both want competitive 30K then.
No, I want to see them proven wrong in the context that "people who prefer to buy plastic models over insanely expensive forge world resin are just as capable of enjoying a narrative focused game as the 'old guard' are"
angel of death 007 wrote: Trying to figure out as it seems like HH was a good release for GW, yet you don't really see any lists anywhere? Is it due to the large points game size (3000 pts), the fact that most units are FW and not available or something else?
From my experience, it's down to the nature of the game.
HH unlike 40k has almost no competitive ecosystem and while there have been some serious wombo-combos in the past (Deathstars, Magnus, Thousand Sons in general), the idea of the game is to play the story of the setting. You see a lot of HH events but they aren't tournaments they are narrative events, indeed when Warhammer World hosted a HH tournament recently instead of a narrative weekender (which is the norm) there was significant backlash from the wider HH online community.
The focus on narrative has led to some rather undesirable behaviour from certain people within the online community who very loudly and often declared that an influx of players would "ruin" HH and turn it into the mess we see with competitive 40k. Of course, they've been proven wrong already but they keep on shouting about it.
I'm not going to lie, the more they shout about it the more I want competitive 30K to happen out of spite.
fething things for everyone just to spite a small subset of annoying people is surely the mature way of going about it.
Laughing Man wrote: I'm not going to lie, the more they shout about it the more I want competitive 30K to happen out of spite.
Not only would that make that subgroup extremely happy in their unhealthy way but it would taint the game for many others who don't like competitive gaming but aren't gakheads about it.
The better choice is to just let them fester in their self-made misery.
That man is also a sorcerer who often has the new minis painted before he's peeled off the shrinkwrap...
I would love to buy 2-4 plastic warhounds, but first I think more use would be gained by a plastic thunderhawk and cerastus knight kits. Though if the warhound was plasticized, maybe GW would update the rules to make it worth its point cost, or cost what it is worth.
That man is also a sorcerer who often has the new minis painted before he's peeled off the shrinkwrap...
I would love to buy 2-4 plastic warhounds, but first I think more use would be gained by a plastic thunderhawk and cerastus knight kits. Though if the warhound was plasticized, maybe GW would update the rules to make it worth its point cost, or cost what it is worth.
I do wonder how popular things like plastic Thunderhawks and Warhounds would be. On the one hand I'm like "oh yeah that'd be so cool!", but having bought big kits in the past (like 1/32 model aircraft) in practice I know it's a pain in the arse because they take up too much storage space and transport would be a nightmare. I know some people would buy them, but I feel like the actual sales wouldn't match the internet hype around them.
Also gaming side they are getting so big they are breaking things. Unless they neuter them to be barely better than knights they will cost so much it's pretty much auto lose. To not auto lose by scenario need to be so undercosted on killinyness/durability that they then invalidate other armies(knights/tank heavy armies being first in sight).
Plastic warhound at say 75 pounds, skip for me. Too much hassle to storage with no gaming value.
While I don't doubt that there are quit a few people who would buy one, I highly doubt that enough people would buy a plastic Thawk to make producing it profitable, much less profitable enough for GW to consider it.
I mean besides the high price of the model most people will struggle with space to put it.
Won't say it's impossible, I know better than that, but as Captain Sparrow said impropable.
Instead I would prefer for them to release kits that are actually useful in a normal game, like the rest of the heavy weapons, the contemptor, assault marines/upgrades (I hope for different poses in a fully new set) etc.
MarcusConstantin wrote: While I don't doubt that there are quit a few people who would buy one, I highly doubt that enough people would buy a plastic Thawk to make producing it profitable, much less profitable enough for GW to consider it.
I mean besides the high price of the model most people will struggle with space to put it.
Won't say it's impossible, I know better than that, but as Captain Sparrow said impropable.
Instead I would prefer for them to release kits that are actually useful in a normal game, like the rest of the heavy weapons, the contemptor, assault marines/upgrades (I hope for different poses in a fully new set) etc.
They’d still sell more than the resin version, and by a country mile.
Thunderhawks are cool.
Thunderhawks are iconic.
Thunderhawks are currently
A) Prohibitively expensive
3) Cast in resin.
Me? No resin, thank you. The £549 price tag isn’t insurmountable, but the material itself is 100% a deal breaker.
Now. Make it plastic. Make it Stockholm Value, and tag it at £250. It’s still less than 50% of the FW kit, and it will sell pretty well. Certainly I’d imagine it’d make its production and die cutting costs back on it’s pretty-order window. Not a shadow of a doubt there.
Because Heresy is popular. And those coming over from Heresy 1st Edition have provably and demonstrably Deep Pockets.
honestly is a plastic hunderhawk went for 200-300 dollars I think GW'd sell a ton of em. no people wouldn't be racing to buy em toi put on the table but I bet most marine players woul;d want one as a display peice.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Because Heresy is popular. And those coming over from Heresy 1st Edition have provably and demonstrably Deep Pockets.
Not everyone. It was pretty cheap to get into HH back when Calth/Prospero dropped and a lot of stuff for HH was easily kitbashed/used from 40k kits. For stuff that has now been changed to plastic kits sure those were expensive but the vast majority of HH players I knew were very much slow growing their armies which is one of the reasons it died in our group. People could expand a 40k army with Battleforces or Start Collections, less so with HH. Most never went near FW (one member of our current group had only GW kits in their army even before the new box dropped) and people generally avoided units that had models from FW unless they could easily be converted with 40k parts like Templar Brethren or Dark Angels biker units wearing MkVI armour.
MarcusConstantin wrote: While I don't doubt that there are quit a few people who would buy one, I highly doubt that enough people would buy a plastic Thawk to make producing it profitable, much less profitable enough for GW to consider it.
I mean besides the high price of the model most people will struggle with space to put it.
Won't say it's impossible, I know better than that, but as Captain Sparrow said impropable.
Instead I would prefer for them to release kits that are actually useful in a normal game, like the rest of the heavy weapons, the contemptor, assault marines/upgrades (I hope for different poses in a fully new set) etc.
I would definitely buy at least 3 Thunderhawks...one for the EC, one for a 40KSW force, and one for...well...future plans.
How many resin TH kits do you think GW sold? 5k? 10k?
And what price would you reallistically imagine for a plastic kit? £200? £250? £300?
I still don't see that as viable.
Regardless of having one or more large kits in plastic, I still want them to be releasing more basic sets rather than almost useless centerpiece models.
MarcusConstantin wrote: How many resin TH kits do you think GW sold? 5k? 10k?
And what price would you reallistically imagine for a plastic kit? £200? £250? £300?
I still don't see that as viable.
Regardless of having one or more large kits in plastic, I still want them to be releasing more basic sets rather than almost useless centerpiece models.
MarcusConstantin wrote: While I don't doubt that there are quit a few people who would buy one, I highly doubt that enough people would buy a plastic Thawk to make producing it profitable, much less profitable enough for GW to consider it.
I mean besides the high price of the model most people will struggle with space to put it.
Won't say it's impossible, I know better than that, but as Captain Sparrow said impropable.
Instead I would prefer for them to release kits that are actually useful in a normal game, like the rest of the heavy weapons, the contemptor, assault marines/upgrades (I hope for different poses in a fully new set) etc.
I would definitely buy at least 3 Thunderhawks...one for the EC, one for a 40KSW force, and one for...well...future plans.
The argument isn't that no one would buy one or even multiples, the argument is that the collective sales may not make it worthwhile. It's a lot of sprues, big sprues, and if they sell only 1 to every 50th marine player on average they'll need to cost those sprues high to make their money back. It wouldn't surprise me if it ends up £300+, the Monolith and Knights are around £100 and I think a Thunderhawk would be at least 3 times the parts/sprues/size.
MarcusConstantin wrote: How many resin TH kits do you think GW sold? 5k? 10k?
And what price would you reallistically imagine for a plastic kit? £200? £250? £300?
I still don't see that as viable.
Regardless of having one or more large kits in plastic, I still want them to be releasing more basic sets rather than almost useless centerpiece models.
*points at baneblade kit*
The Baneblade is tiny compared to a Thunderhawk. It'd be like saying a pickup truck is too big for city driving and using a compact car as a counter argument, lol.
I like the *idea* of a Thunderhawk, but in practice, yeah, no thanks.
If you look at the spartan sprue and how it's broken up, you can extrapolate the fuselage of stormeagle, fire raptor, T hawk gunship/transporter. Wouldn't take as many sprues as you'd think if you're distributing that sprue across multiple kits.
They're gonna get a ton of mileage out of the shared Spartan/Rhino sprue across the typhon/cerebus/LR Proteus & deimos rhino variants.
tneva82 wrote: How much sprues aircraft would share with tanks?
It's big hard to store with close to zero gaming use. Are there that many who pay 300 just to sit on shelves?
I guess as a comparison there's things like the 1/24 Typhoon from Airfix and 1/32 Mosquito from Tamiya. They are ballpark similar size and people buy them just to build and display.
But I feel the market for people who want to display a WW2 aircraft in their homes is much bigger than the market for people who want to display a Space Marine flyer, especially given the Space Marine flyer is likely going to be 2 times the price. Maybe I'm wrong.
Racerguy180 wrote: I could care less about gaming use(even tho I would play games with it) I'd prefer to use its scale for a diorama or display.
100% this. I don't play marines and I would buy a plastic TH just to have and paint up. I much prefer FW knights/Titans and Ordinatus but hot damn I'd love a Thunderhawk just to have. I'd love to have a old metal one but that white whale pipe dream is long gone. I think most of us lost out on the chance for one of those long ago.
Remember that there are plenty of people who buy box after box - hundreds or thousands of dollars worth - of plastic kits and just add them to a pile of unbuilt models taking up space.
If GW told people to buy a plastic Thunderhawk, they'd sell plenty enough.
Just need to consider general sales theory as well as the dedication of hobbyists.
Prestige items do sell, despite hefty price tags. I mean, consider Apple’s “because we made it, and we’re hip” price premium over comparable products.
Something the size of a Thunderhawk is a project in and of itself. Probably a month’s worth of building, modelling and painting/detailing. With the end result being not just a usable item within the game, but a kit sufficiently detailed and visually interesting to be a display piece in its own right.
Roughly comparable kind of item? The Super Star Destroyer for Armada. £165-£175 according to a cursory Google. Not that commonly usable in the game, but usable all the same, and a hell of a display piece. Perhaps too rich a price just for display, yet….it sells.
A Thunderhawk has a potentially huge market. Every Space Marine player. Every CSM player. Every Heresy player. Yes there will be a fair cross over between those groups. But you’re still talking tens of thousands of Nerds already well used to their hobby being cash intensive. And even where a given customer exists in all three of the groups above? They may still buy more than one if they play different chapters/legions. Folk who’s mainjam is building and paint are more likely to shell out for the plastic version over resin, and we still see FW kits bought just for painting and display.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: A Thunderhawk has a potentially huge market. Every Space Marine player. Every CSM player. Every Heresy player.
Yeah, see, I don't think all those people are going to want it.
(Almost) every Space Marine player on Dakka? Sure, Dakka is full of the nerdiest nerds to ever have nerded. I dunno if your average Space Marine player wants one, especially when they see the price tag and realise how big an 19" long and 17" wide model actually is.
The operative is potential. That’s why I used it. As it kind of acknowledges it’s…potential. And not guaranteed.
From a marketing point of view, it’s also a Stunt Piece. A real eye catcher and attention grabber.
Right now, Heresy fans seem pretty happy with what we know to be coming, though GW could do with cracking on with the releases. Price is coming down, kits are virtually indistinguishable from their resin forebears. And people are dropping enough moolah for items to rapidly sell out.
Something chunky like the Thunderhawk can be a release to reinvigorate the system as and when.
A significant investment in itself due to the likely number of sprues required. But….a desirable and long awaited kit it remains. And once someone has one, they may get further invested in Heresy and get closer to an army worth of painted minis.
Thunderhawks are a Space Marine item, yes? And as a gaming piece, the potential market is largely, but not solely, limited to the number of folk playing that army, yes?
Even if your sales ratio is 1 in 1,000, your potential market remains higher if it’s an already popular army. And I suspect the ratio would be considerably better than the 1 in 1,000 I used for demonstration purposes. Even 1 in 100 ratio is solid, and I kind of suspect, but of course cannot prove, sales of a plastic Thunderhawk kit would be significantly better as a ratio.
Thunderhawks are a Space Marine item, yes? And as a gaming piece, the potential market is largely, but not solely, limited to the number of folk playing that army, yes?
Even if your sales ratio is 1 in 1,000, your potential market remains higher if it’s an already popular army. And I suspect the ratio would be considerably better than the 1 in 1,000 I used for demonstration purposes. Even 1 in 100 ratio is solid, and I kind of suspect, but of course cannot prove, sales of a plastic Thunderhawk kit would be significantly better as a ratio.
Except it has no real gaming value. Almost half the size of army, then transported stuff inside adds up. Would need stuff on ground.
You don't see warhounds walking around either...
The thing is just a display piece. Likely couple hundred pounds. It will be targeted at those who just collect stuff for not playing.
It's not high in priority. GW has stuff to put on plastic for years if not decades with bigger potential target base.
Thunderhawks are a Space Marine item, yes? And as a gaming piece, the potential market is largely, but not solely, limited to the number of folk playing that army, yes?
Even if your sales ratio is 1 in 1,000, your potential market remains higher if it’s an already popular army. And I suspect the ratio would be considerably better than the 1 in 1,000 I used for demonstration purposes. Even 1 in 100 ratio is solid, and I kind of suspect, but of course cannot prove, sales of a plastic Thunderhawk kit would be significantly better as a ratio.
Except it has no real gaming value. Almost half the size of army, then transported stuff inside adds up. Would need stuff on ground.
You don't see warhounds walking around either...
The thing is just a display piece. Likely couple hundred pounds. It will be targeted at those who just collect stuff for not playing.
It's not high in priority. GW has stuff to put on plastic for years if not decades with bigger potential target base.
That’s another very narrow view of things.
No real gaming value is…..an entirely unsubstantiated claim, based solely on your opinion.
Have a look at how much long term Heresy players are prepared to spend, and what size of games they’re happy to play. Both are significantly more than 40K, possibly because organised events tend to be more narrative style mega battles.
And we very much do see Warhounds walking around. In Heresy armies.
From person experience, no you don't. Apocalypse games sure, but any class of Titan is still a rarity in HH because they bring a different level of game.
Two members of our group have a Titan each (one Reaver and one Warhound) and even the Warhound rarely gets used because its such a step up from other Superheavies. The guy was begging us for months to do Titan fight after Titan fight and we only said yes twice because it just wasn't fun.
As for how much HH players are prepared to spend compared to 40k players it balances out over time (for the most part because Aussies exist). I'm not sure there's ample evidence to suggest that one camp spends more than the other.
No real gaming value is…..an entirely unsubstantiated claim, based solely on your opinion.
Have a look at how much long term Heresy players are prepared to spend, and what size of games they’re happy to play. Both are significantly more than 40K, possibly because organised events tend to be more narrative style mega battles.
And we very much do see Warhounds walking around. In Heresy armies.
It’s a very different beast to 40K.
You really don't see models like that frequently, at least I don't, even though there's a few people around that own them and play Heresy. They tend to sit on the display shelf. Probably get used as terrain pieces more than actual game pieces.
And yes, some people happily bought resin Thunderhawks at £550 from FW, that doesn't automatically mean there's going to be a big market for people buying plastic Thunderhawks at £300. It's still a lot of money, it's still going to be a big time investment to build, it's still going to be a pain in the arse to transport to the local club for a game, and it's still going to take up a large amount of storage/display shelf space in your house. It'll just be a bit lighter and you won't have to deal with FW's quality control.
I refer you to my explanation of potential market, and sale to player ratio.
A cheaper, plastic Thunderhawk has a greater appeal than the £549 resin Thunderhawk. And there’s a decent sized potential market that even a 1 sale to 100 player ratio is still going to be worth it’s while.
Remember. At no point have I said “if it’s plastic, everyone will buy five”. I’m simply saying a cheaper, plastic Thunderhawk will have an inherently larger market than the resin one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for frequency seen? I accept it’s probably going to vary area to area. My gaming circle all have pretty healthy disposable income. We’re not 1% by any stretch, but we’ve enough we can splash out on big shiny things. And sure, that’s far from representative of the wider market.
But ask not “how many own now”. Ask how many would buy one if the price was better (£250 or £300 is still better than £549), and the material was more forgiving.
Because that’s going to be the tipping point. Titans and Thunderhawks may be an escalation too far right now, because their price and complexity can be too much for some (have I mentioned I bloody hate working in resin?). But, make them more accessible? The escalation issue is mitigated, because the kits themselves become less exclusive.
Frankly, the most realistic and biggest audience for a plastic Thunderhawk is going to be the whales that impulsively buy five, or ten, and then never open any besides a single one, that they're probably never going to paint, either.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Frankly, the most realistic and biggest audience for a plastic Thunderhawk is going to be the whales that impulsively buy five, or ten, and then never open any besides a single one, that they're probably never going to paint, either.
I suspect the main market will be colelctors myself
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Frankly, the most realistic and biggest audience for a plastic Thunderhawk is going to be the whales that impulsively buy five, or ten, and then never open any besides a single one, that they're probably never going to paint, either.
I think a large portion of the whales have already bought the resin Thunderhawk.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Frankly, the most realistic and biggest audience for a plastic Thunderhawk is going to be the whales that impulsively buy five, or ten, and then never open any besides a single one, that they're probably never going to paint, either.
There's something pretty depressing when you go onto sites like reddit and people are getting hundreds of upvotes simply for their latest purchase - and you look into their account history and its nothing but boxes, no painted or assembled figures. Just people addicted to buying junk.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Frankly, the most realistic and biggest audience for a plastic Thunderhawk is going to be the whales that impulsively buy five, or ten, and then never open any besides a single one, that they're probably never going to paint, either.
I think a large portion of the whales have already bought the resin Thunderhawk.
And they will go onto buy the plastic one as well.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Frankly, the most realistic and biggest audience for a plastic Thunderhawk is going to be the whales that impulsively buy five, or ten, and then never open any besides a single one, that they're probably never going to paint, either.
I think a large portion of the whales have already bought the resin Thunderhawk.
And they will go onto buy the plastic one as well.
Many probably will, but I think it takes more than selling to the people who already have one (minus the "new hat") to justify GW going to the effort of making it.
Maybe I massively underestimate the popularity, but it's going to take more than a few people on a forum saying they'll buy 1 or 2 or 3 to convince me the market is there. Personally I like the idea of a Thunderhawk, I have the money to buy one if I want it, but will I actually buy one? No, thanks, or at least probably not. Perhaps if I move to a different house with more display space and have a free month on my hands to build and paint it, then I might.
Large kits aren't anything new, but as popular as 40k is I don't think it's as popular as other markets that make big kits worthwhile
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Frankly, the most realistic and biggest audience for a plastic Thunderhawk is going to be the whales that impulsively buy five, or ten, and then never open any besides a single one, that they're probably never going to paint, either.
There's something pretty depressing when you go onto sites like reddit and people are getting hundreds of upvotes simply for their latest purchase - and you look into their account history and its nothing but boxes, no painted or assembled figures. Just people addicted to buying junk.
.
it may be they simply don't feel comfidant showing off their assembled and painted stuff
Because that’s going to be the tipping point. Titans and Thunderhawks may be an escalation too far right now, because their price and complexity can be too much for some (have I mentioned I bloody hate working in resin?). But, make them more accessible? The escalation issue is mitigated, because the kits themselves become less exclusive.
This is me in a nutshell. I'm in the market for something like a Titan, I have the experience, patience and age/income to buy, build and paint one. I would set up summer Apocalypse battles in my garden to game with it.
But in FW resin, it's a hard pass from me. Bad QC, and the wrong material for heavy models - brittle when dropped and warps in the heat. Keeps me away from the Puppetswar mech too.
There's more use in those pre-painted 1/18 mecha on AliExpress for £100. Heck, I'd rather do interesting things with kids' toys like the various Hulkbuster armours and Star Wars spaceships in hard plastic. Most Gunpla are in the wrong style, sadly. Actually, good point - there IS a market there for £150+ high-quality models.
I wouldn't be surprised if GW had tried to design Thunderhawk in plastic for years already. But it's a huge model and serious investment in tooling. It would probably require some clever design compromises to double up some sprues instead of each sprue being unique. Baneblade was 7(?) unique large sprues which was almost twice as much as the original Cities of Death kits combined at the time.
HH2.0 would be the perfect excuse to finally make Thunderhawk happen. Not the first or second wave, but keep it as an ace in the sleeve and hit the table as soon as the sales start declining. It's the crown jewel of any Space Marine collection that most people have avoided because it's only available in resin (and has a rather spicy price tag because of it).
Plastic Thunderhawk has a potential to sell like hotcakes. Well, £275 hotcakes but nevertheless. I consider myself as a medium sized whale at best but I would probably buy one even if I don't really have a marine army nor a place to display one. It's a nothing burger compared to what I have spent on Lego Star Wars collectibles.
Scottywan82 wrote: That alternate head is GRIM. I admit, my first thought was "How does he eat?"
Mine too. But then I remembered they are hooked into their suits and could potentially be fed intravenously that way. Or there’s a port in there for a straw for him to suck down baby food.
Of course once illuminated by the light of chaos such mortal considerations fall by the wayside of the path to glory.
I just checked which legions don't have Praetor models yet and I am surprised how many there are.
Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Salamanders, World Eaters, Iron Warriors and Death Guard don't have any, Thousand Sons and Space Wolves only have a Terminator version and Emperors Children at least got their power armor version now.
All of the arguments about the Thunderhawk (too big, too expensive, can’t use it in most games, etc.) we’re used when they released the Warlord titan, and they’ve sold thousands of this buggers at the price of a small car! They could definitely sell plenty of £2-300 plastic Thunderhawks.
Great model. I love that he is based on the new Mk6 Marine design, makes him fit in really well while retaining the unique flair of the Legion.
The recently released Sons of Horus Praetor looks so different from anything else with his ultra custom suit of Mk4 armour, the sculpting style is even different from older SoH Forge World models.
I just checked which legions don't have Praetor models yet and I am surprised how many there are.
Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Salamanders, World Eaters and Death Guard don't have any, Thousand Sons and Space Wolves only have a Terminator version and Emperors Children at least got their power armor version now.
Iron Warriors have neither too. Iron Hands have the Iron Father which I believe is praetor-equivalent.
Scottywan82 wrote: That alternate head is GRIM. I admit, my first thought was "How does he eat?"
I love it. Definite purchase for me I reckon.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Are the new praetors going to be in plastic?
Probably not plastic, but Im not sure. The large flappy cloak look very much like standard plasic design, and some of the details look suspiciously like the plasic designers had something to do with it. Would be great if it was plasic.
ImAGeek wrote: It’ll be resin. They said legion specific stuff will stay resin.
Yeah, plus each of these are looking at ~1/18th the audience, so resin seems more practical. A generic praetor on the other hand...
They could have been kind and addressed the obvious question, however. There was a 0% chance that people wouldn't ask.
ImAGeek wrote: It’ll be resin. They said legion specific stuff will stay resin.
Yeah, plus each of these are looking at ~1/18th the audience, so resin seems more practical. A generic praetor on the other hand...
They could have been kind and addressed the obvious question, however. There was a 0% chance that people wouldn't ask.
That was a credible excuse until they started doing plastic BL, store anniversary and event minis.
Jadenim wrote: All of the arguments about the Thunderhawk (too big, too expensive, can’t use it in most games, etc.) we’re used when they released the Warlord titan, and they’ve sold thousands of this buggers at the price of a small car! They could definitely sell plenty of £2-300 plastic Thunderhawks.
"Thousands" is a bit of an exaggeration, I think they've sold about 1500, a decent chunk of those were thanks to covid
But my argument was never that they wouldn't sell at all, just questioning if they would sell enough to warrant translating it to plastic.
Many people who have the money, space, and desire to build such a large model have already bought the resin Thunderhawk for £550, so they're marketing to the people who have the money, space, and desire to build such a large model that didn't want to pay £550 but would be happy paying maybe £300-ish and/or didn't want to deal with Forge World. I'm not saying there's zero people like that, but enough to warrant designing and manufacturing the many large sprues that would go into such a kit? I'm not as convinced.
Though I'm sure it wouldn't flop as hard as Age of Sigmar Dominion boxes
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Does the fact that they do not mention Forge World mean this Praetor is a plastic release? Just tell us in the article GW.
I'm going to guess he'll be resin. No evidence though, that's just my guess. Some of the detail work looks like it was resin rather than plastic (his right shoulder pad as an example).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually I'm pretty sure he's resin. His right shoulder pad would need to be several pieces to have that detail in plastic, and his backpack has details that would also need to be several parts. and the aquila on his cape looks like it has undercuts.
Happy to be proven wrong, but yeah, looks resin to me.
jullevi wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if GW had tried to design Thunderhawk in plastic for years already. But it's a huge model and serious investment in tooling. It would probably require some clever design compromises to double up some sprues instead of each sprue being unique. Baneblade was 7(?) unique large sprues which was almost twice as much as the original Cities of Death kits combined at the time.
HH2.0 would be the perfect excuse to finally make Thunderhawk happen. Not the first or second wave, but keep it as an ace in the sleeve and hit the table as soon as the sales start declining. It's the crown jewel of any Space Marine collection that most people have avoided because it's only available in resin (and has a rather spicy price tag because of it).
Plastic Thunderhawk has a potential to sell like hotcakes. Well, £275 hotcakes but nevertheless. I consider myself as a medium sized whale at best but I would probably buy one even if I don't really have a marine army nor a place to display one. It's a nothing burger compared to what I have spent on Lego Star Wars collectibles.
Thunderhawk wouldn´t sell like hotcakes. It would rather be dead weight. And way TOO large!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jadenim wrote: All of the arguments about the Thunderhawk (too big, too expensive, can’t use it in most games, etc.) we’re used when they released the Warlord titan, and they’ve sold thousands of this buggers at the price of a small car! They could definitely sell plenty of £2-300 plastic Thunderhawks.
GW has proved that they are willing to cater to ordinary hobbyists with their price policy for HH 2.0. Buying Warlord Titans for 40K is only suitable for whales.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
stahly wrote: Great model. I love that he is based on the new Mk6 Marine design, makes him fit in really well while retaining the unique flair of the Legion.
The recently released Sons of Horus Praetor looks so different from anything else with his ultra custom suit of Mk4 armour, the sculpting style is even different from older SoH Forge World models.
I might be wrong but this EC praetor looks like as if he was the same size as the new MK VI Tactical. The praetors in the AoD box on the other hand are the size of Ogryns.
ImAGeek wrote: It’ll be resin. They said legion specific stuff will stay resin.
Yeah, plus each of these are looking at ~1/18th the audience, so resin seems more practical. A generic praetor on the other hand...
They could have been kind and addressed the obvious question, however. There was a 0% chance that people wouldn't ask.
That was a credible excuse until they started doing plastic BL, store anniversary and event minis.
I don't know why you think so. Those are limited run models for collectors to nab if they can and scalpers to buy out on day 1 and resell. GW basically washes their hands of those immediately after they sell them.
That's very different from producing a praetor for each legion to stick around for a long term but (presumably) second tier game.
Strg Alt wrote: I might be wrong but this EC praetor looks like as if he was the same size as the new MK VI Tactical. The praetors in the AoD box on the other hand are the size of Ogryns.
If he's on a 40mm base like the AOD praetors then he's probably quite large, lol. Even on a 32mm base he looks taller than a regular MkVI tac (which are 32mm to the eye, so it gives a good comparison), but probably not as big as the AOD praetors.
tneva82 wrote: Do people here seriously expect gw to shut down fw completely?
I think some people want it to happen, expecting everything in the FW catalogue to suddenly go plastic rather than everything just being binned off forever with only the more basic kits being remade in plastic.
ImAGeek wrote: It’ll be resin. They said legion specific stuff will stay resin.
Yeah, plus each of these are looking at ~1/18th the audience, so resin seems more practical. A generic praetor on the other hand...
They could have been kind and addressed the obvious question, however. There was a 0% chance that people wouldn't ask.
That was a credible excuse until they started doing plastic BL, store anniversary and event minis.
I don't know why you think so. Those are limited run models for collectors to nab if they can and scalpers to buy out on day 1 and resell. GW basically washes their hands of those immediately after they sell them.
That's very different from producing a praetor for each legion to stick around for a long term but (presumably) second tier game.
Because that argument was always based on the upfront cost of steel moulds. But fine, I'll see your moving of the goal posts and raise you plastic Kal Jericho and Scabs and various plastic BB bits and bobs.
Now this Praetor is gorgeous! This is what the praetors who came with the AoD box shoulda looked like. This sculpt respects the original Beakies Corvus armour aesthetic much better than the plastic ones, which I suspect were sculpted by a Beakies hater.
As for the AI going Horus Heresy, this is great news! The rollout towards Epic 30K is now officially underway, first AI, followed by marine on marine units later when the Epic relaunch hits us early next year. Then we'll have Titans, Knights, flyers and ground troops + vehicles. BOOOOM.
tneva82 wrote: Do people here seriously expect gw to shut down fw completely?
I think some people want it to happen, expecting everything in the FW catalogue to suddenly go plastic rather than everything just being binned off forever with only the more basic kits being remade in plastic.
Apparently Siocast is becoming a new method of casting models, as an alternative to metal and resin. Its claimed that it reduces casting time and cost, while also offering a plastic that can be recycled.
Reaper and Corvus Belli are already putting it to use and it would be interesting to see if Forgeworld follow suit. If such a technology could reduce the price of FW models then I'd be willing to put in that first order...
tneva82 wrote: Do people here seriously expect gw to shut down fw completely?
I think some people want it to happen, expecting everything in the FW catalogue to suddenly go plastic rather than everything just being binned off forever with only the more basic kits being remade in plastic.
Apparently Siocast is becoming a new method of casting models, as an alternative to metal and resin. Its claimed that it reduces casting time and cost, while also offering a plastic that can be recycled.
Reaper and Corvus Belli are already putting it to use and it would be interesting to see if Forgeworld follow suit. If such a technology could reduce the price of FW models then I'd be willing to put in that first order...
Well, I nearly bought a pair of Arvus "little pig" Lighters. They were so damn cute that I was actually willing to pay the price but the p&p put me off.
It's interesting to see the anger towards FW making resin HH stuff when not only was it said that all Legion-specific stuff would be staying FW but that HH has been FWs domain forever. All these spoiled children whinging that not every single thing is plastic is just sad.
I don't have anything against forge world bar their price rises, which are atrocious. I'll see what this guy is priced at on release and adjust my plans accordingly.
"infantry-sized" is not exactly applicable to Praetors nowadays, given they tend to tower heads and shoulders over some of the slightly older Marine's shoulders - Marines that weren't exactly infantry-sized in the first place.
Gert wrote: It's interesting to see the anger towards FW making resin HH stuff when not only was it said that all Legion-specific stuff would be staying FW but that HH has been FWs domain forever. All these spoiled children whinging that not every single thing is plastic is just sad.
In contrast spending an overabundance of cash on FW products is not a sign of maturity. It´s rather the opposite.
Strg Alt wrote: In contrast spending an overabundance of cash on FW products is not a sign of maturity. It´s rather the opposite.
Correct it is not.
However, complaining that FW still makes kits despite being told at the very beginning of the new edition and introduction of more plastic is very much a childish thing to do. You aren't complaining about legitimate problems such as lack of products or no rules support, you're just complaining that you can't get all the things the way you want them.
Looks like Lucius was available for purchase at some recent event as there's a couple on eBay being scalped for absurd amounts. I'm hoping that might mean a pre order tomorrow.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Looks like Lucius was available for purchase at some recent event as there's a couple on eBay being scalped for absurd amounts. I'm hoping that might mean a pre order tomorrow.
Don't count on it. Marduk was at the May event and still no sign of him.
Seen both quoted at being £33.50 (the FW price not the scalpers obviously).
Strg Alt wrote: In contrast spending an overabundance of cash on FW products is not a sign of maturity. It´s rather the opposite.
Correct it is not.
However, complaining that FW still makes kits despite being told at the very beginning of the new edition and introduction of more plastic is very much a childish thing to do. You aren't complaining about legitimate problems such as lack of products or no rules support, you're just complaining that you can't get all the things the way you want them.
FW is too much for me, especially given my loathing of resin. But if it makes those willing and able to indulge happy? It makes the happy, and I’m pretty they don’t give an airborne copulation at a tumbling comestible what anyone else thinks.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Looks like Lucius was available for purchase at some recent event as there's a couple on eBay being scalped for absurd amounts. I'm hoping that might mean a pre order tomorrow.
Don't count on it. Marduk was at the May event and still no sign of him.
Seen both quoted at being £33.50 (the FW price not the scalpers obviously).
Aye come to think of it when I failed to get raldoron at whfest 2019 he wasn't out for ages after.
Blah. What are gw playing at? This really is a ridiculous business model.
FW is too much for me, especially given my loathing of resin. But if it makes those willing and able to indulge happy? It makes the happy, and I’m pretty they don’t give an airborne copulation at a tumbling comestible what anyone else thinks.
Don’t be That Guy.
In fairness to Gert - and I don't like being fair to Gert - he wasn't doing that.
He was just pointing out how daft it sounds to be complaining (again, and again, and again...) that FW are continuing to produce things that we've known they were going to be producing since HH2 has been a thing.
'Tis on the same level as the people who whine about BB Star Players, or Necromunda hangers-on, etc.
Well some people here seem to think that either GW should just close FW completely or keep FW eating salary etc while not producing anything. Resin makers not doing any resin would be silly...but then again that seems to be what some people here want starting to complain everytime RESIN MAKING DEPARTMENT RELEASING RESIN MODEL.
Or should gw produce and sell plastic AND resin version of every model? That makes zero economical sense.
Then again those people complaining about FW releasing resin models have zero business sense likely anyway so making identical(never mind plastic can't reach same level of details anyway) models at once for resin and plastic makes complete sense for them.
Had notification by Leviathan has shipped. I’m well excited to get it built! Strongly tempted by a Dread army, and an Iron Wing too. I’m much happier painting big models.
Strg Alt wrote: In contrast spending an overabundance of cash on FW products is not a sign of maturity. It´s rather the opposite.
Correct it is not.
However, complaining that FW still makes kits despite being told at the very beginning of the new edition and introduction of more plastic is very much a childish thing to do. You aren't complaining about legitimate problems such as lack of products or no rules support, you're just complaining that you can't get all the things the way you want them.
It is a legitimate concern for all consumers. We want affordable plastic kits and not this overpriced resin junk that is difficult to work with. GW turned already a couple of models into plastic. Why not the rest? It´s a bad business decision. And shaming people who want a better deal is not the way to win a discussion. It´s the way to lose it:
"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser."
Strg Alt wrote: It is a legitimate concern for all consumers. We want affordable plastic kits and not this overpriced resin junk that is difficult to work with. GW turned already a couple of models into plastic. Why not the rest? It´s a bad business decision.
Exactly, GW turned a very small portion of the HH catalogue into plastic because that's how you start a product line. You don't throw everything over on a system adapted from a semi-popular side game because that is bad business sense.
HH 2 has been out for a little under two months and while it might be a good game, it's not going to come close to 40k or even AoS in terms of selling power so moving everything over would be financial idiocy. You don't over-invest and that's what you're asking for.
And shaming people who want a better deal is not the way to win a discussion. It´s the way to lose it:
I'm shaming entitled children. HH just got the biggest boost to accessibility it's had since BaC and yet people like you are still finding ways to complain because nothing is ever good enough. Nobody is forcing you to buy the Emperor's Children Praetor model because there are plenty of plastic alternatives to use instead. You're complaining because GW hasn't swapped an entire model range overnight into a different material for a system that has only just been given mainline status and support.
Take the fight to the 31st Millennium as Legions clash in mighty 3,000-point games across two days. Fight for the glory of your Primarch, and compete for coveted painting and sportsmanship awards along the way.
"- Costumes must not be comprised, in whole or in part, of any real (or realistic) equipment of any military unit in existence after 1900. This especially applies to camouflage clothing, helmets etc."
It was a step down from BaC due to the Custodes, Sisters of Silence and named characters. BaC was much better as a generic box. Didn't stop our group from buying about 5 BoP with our Tsons player getting nearly all the Ahrimen.
My brother was a Space Wolves player, while I've had an interest in Thousand Sons for a long while. I suppose there is at least the two HQs available...
For Wolves and Tsons it was a good start but even then most people in our group were trying to find ways of ditching the Custodes and especially the Sisters.
Sisters of Silence have been done really badly in HH whereas due to the 40k additions Custodes have soared. To run a pure 3k SoS army in HH 1 you had to use every single slot available and take every single upgrade for all your units. Custodes did not have that problem.
Yeah but you can run both lists separately as they were still independent organisations. SoS have the ability to be run as a pure army just as Custodes do but it's just nowhere near as good. They just never got the love the Custodes got from both GW and FW.
GaroRobe wrote: "- Costumes must not be comprised, in whole or in part, of any real (or realistic) equipment of any military unit in existence after 1900. This especially applies to camouflage clothing, helmets etc."
GrosseSax wrote: So are plastic MKIIIs EVER going to be available?
I'm having a hard time finding Terminators myself. Anyone know if they're being repacked or something? And MKIII would be welcome, seem more popular than MK VI.
GrosseSax wrote: So are plastic MKIIIs EVER going to be available?
I'm having a hard time finding Terminators myself. Anyone know if they're being repacked or something? And MKIII would be welcome, seem more popular than MK VI.
Betting Tartaros and Cataphractii are going to 10 man boxes
Imagine finger-wagging at strangers on the internet.
And for such an absurd reason "well it's always sucked like this, so you shouldn't expect any better!", lol.
I ended up not buying the Age of Darkness set because I did the calcs on how much it'd cost to assemble an army and in spite of AoD being a good deal in and of itself, the game as a whole is still bloody expensive and having FW doesn't help that.
I am, however, always torn. Resin models do look nicer, so if I wanted to paint something purely as a display piece, I don't mind it being resin.
Strg Alt wrote: It is a legitimate concern for all consumers. We want affordable plastic kits and not this overpriced resin junk that is difficult to work with. GW turned already a couple of models into plastic. Why not the rest? It´s a bad business decision.
Exactly, GW turned a very small portion of the HH catalogue into plastic because that's how you start a product line. You don't throw everything over on a system adapted from a semi-popular side game because that is bad business sense.
HH 2 has been out for a little under two months and while it might be a good game, it's not going to come close to 40k or even AoS in terms of selling power so moving everything over would be financial idiocy. You don't over-invest and that's what you're asking for.
And shaming people who want a better deal is not the way to win a discussion. It´s the way to lose it:
I'm shaming entitled children. HH just got the biggest boost to accessibility it's had since BaC and yet people like you are still finding ways to complain because nothing is ever good enough. Nobody is forcing you to buy the Emperor's Children Praetor model because there are plenty of plastic alternatives to use instead. You're complaining because GW hasn't swapped an entire model range overnight into a different material for a system that has only just been given mainline status and support.
Strg Alt wrote: It is a legitimate concern for all consumers. We want affordable plastic kits and not this overpriced resin junk that is difficult to work with. GW turned already a couple of models into plastic. Why not the rest? It´s a bad business decision.
Exactly, GW turned a very small portion of the HH catalogue into plastic because that's how you start a product line. You don't throw everything over on a system adapted from a semi-popular side game because that is bad business sense.
HH 2 has been out for a little under two months and while it might be a good game, it's not going to come close to 40k or even AoS in terms of selling power so moving everything over would be financial idiocy. You don't over-invest and that's what you're asking for.
And shaming people who want a better deal is not the way to win a discussion. It´s the way to lose it:
I'm shaming entitled children. HH just got the biggest boost to accessibility it's had since BaC and yet people like you are still finding ways to complain because nothing is ever good enough. Nobody is forcing you to buy the Emperor's Children Praetor model because there are plenty of plastic alternatives to use instead. You're complaining because GW hasn't swapped an entire model range overnight into a different material for a system that has only just been given mainline status and support.
You don´t seem to learn. Ignored.
It is a fair point that you can't expect all of FW's biggest and most popular kits into plastic in a fortnight. We'll definitely be seeing more and more kits get the plastic treatment over the next few months.
JWBS wrote: I'm in broad agreement. I've said it before, I find the impatience expressed by many people to be quite misplaced to say the least.
On stuff not officially shown off? Sure. I’d bloody love the majority of the Heresy range from FW to cross the Rubicon Plasticaris. But I get it takes time and some level of prioritisation. The latter being something we can totally bore each other to death on.
But the stuff they’ve made a show and dance of? Just. Release. It. Already.
Frankly I completly understand why people are frustrated, HH is notorious for it's painfully slow relases in general, sometimes it can take months upon months for something to finally be released after it's been revealed.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Frankly I completly understand why people are frustrated, HH is notorious for it's painfully slow relases in general, sometimes it can take months upon months for something to finally be released after it's been revealed.
Personally, I'm just tired of shoulder pads and hats. Nothing but the first two (IF and Sons) have been released, and they're going to keep wasting thursdays showing off the next 11? 12? Already bored of that. What tanks are we getting? Which variants and guns? That's at least worthwhile to find out...
queen_annes_revenge wrote: As I said before, save the reveals for a week before. They aren't going to lose any sales. Bet they lose more sales dragging it out.
1 week is nowhere near enough time to really budget for things. 2 weeks at least is usually enough for a paycheck to drop. More time lets people plan.
2 weeks, a week, hell, any standard formalised timeframe would be preferable to just not saying anything, alternatively they could just state the date case by case
If they had given warning that the missing heavy weapons boxes were this far out, I might have ordered some kits off of Forge World.
And I'd probably still be waiting for them to be shipped. Sigh.
Strg Alt wrote: It is a legitimate concern for all consumers. We want affordable plastic kits and not this overpriced resin junk that is difficult to work with. GW turned already a couple of models into plastic. Why not the rest? It´s a bad business decision.
Exactly, GW turned a very small portion of the HH catalogue into plastic because that's how you start a product line. You don't throw everything over on a system adapted from a semi-popular side game because that is bad business sense.
HH 2 has been out for a little under two months and while it might be a good game, it's not going to come close to 40k or even AoS in terms of selling power so moving everything over would be financial idiocy. You don't over-invest and that's what you're asking for.
And shaming people who want a better deal is not the way to win a discussion. It´s the way to lose it:
I'm shaming entitled children. HH just got the biggest boost to accessibility it's had since BaC and yet people like you are still finding ways to complain because nothing is ever good enough. Nobody is forcing you to buy the Emperor's Children Praetor model because there are plenty of plastic alternatives to use instead. You're complaining because GW hasn't swapped an entire model range overnight into a different material for a system that has only just been given mainline status and support.
You don´t seem to learn. Ignored.
It is a fair point that you can't expect all of FW's biggest and most popular kits into plastic in a fortnight. We'll definitely be seeing more and more kits get the plastic treatment over the next few months.
I think the original complaint wasn't so much about them not instantly transforming all of FW to plastic... but the fact they're still actively releasing FW resin when people would prefer to see those releases in plastic.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
queen_annes_revenge wrote: 2 weeks, a week, hell, any standard formalised timeframe would be preferable to just not saying anything, alternatively they could just state the date case by case
Stating the release date (or even a release window) makes the most sense to me. If they show something well in advance they can just say "expected Q3" or similar.
I don't want them to stop showing stuff in advance though, that'd also suck.
The way other companies do the hype thing is to maybe release a teaser with no date (so you know it's ages away) then as things get closer they might release more teasers but with a rough date ("expected Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4"), then maybe a bit closer to the date when they have more confidence they can say the release month, then the final reveal might be 1 or 2 weeks in advance.
GW kind of mess up the hype train thing... though in the case of Lucius and you they seem to be doing a great job keeping you focused on it
queen_annes_revenge wrote: As I said before, save the reveals for a week before. They aren't going to lose any sales. Bet they lose more sales dragging it out.
1 week is nowhere near enough time to really budget for things. 2 weeks at least is usually enough for a paycheck to drop. More time lets people plan.
Aye, because he's my favourite character, and one of the first releases I'm actually super excited about, along with that new praetor, plus this week I've seen people have got him from an event. Its annoying that they can do that but not sort out a general release.
Praetors and leviathan weapons, psht. I, here, have to wait 4 months. FOUR ACTUAL MONTHS - that's literally 1/3 of the calendar year. So I can actually play the game, because they couldn't be bothered to release all the rules in one go...
The Power Cosmic wrote: That's a quality mini. I might have bought it in plastic, but I won't pay Forge World prices.
Same. Anything offered on FW is an instant "NOPE" from my side. Suits in Nottingham better learn this fast.
Im glad your the authority on how I spend my money and the authority on how other people spend theirs and the spokeskid for the whole player base. Please try harder.
Gert wrote:It's interesting to see the anger towards FW making resin HH stuff when not only was it said that all Legion-specific stuff would be staying FW but that HH has been FWs domain forever. All these spoiled children whinging that not every single thing is plastic is just sad.
I can't believe im saying this, but I agree with you Gert 100%. If the 40k player base mentality ( aka I Want it now and in plastic) was the main way 1.0 players were, HH wouldn't exist right now.
Strg Alt wrote:
Gert wrote: It's interesting to see the anger towards FW making resin HH stuff when not only was it said that all Legion-specific stuff would be staying FW but that HH has been FWs domain forever. All these spoiled children whinging that not every single thing is plastic is just sad.
Strg Alt wrote: In contrast spending an overabundance of cash on FW products is not a sign of maturity. It´s rather the opposite.
Correct it is not.
However, complaining that FW still makes kits despite being told at the very beginning of the new edition and introduction of more plastic is very much a childish thing to do. You aren't complaining about legitimate problems such as lack of products or no rules support, you're just complaining that you can't get all the things the way you want them.
It is a legitimate concern for all consumers. We want affordable plastic kits and not this overpriced resin junk that is difficult to work with. GW turned already a couple of models into plastic. Why not the rest? It´s a bad business decision. And shaming people who want a better deal is not the way to win a discussion. It´s the way to lose it:
"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser."
-Socrates-!
Again I agree with you Gert 100%. You can really tell the entitled people who take plastic and resin solder dollies way to seriously.
Again thank you for tell me how to spend my money Strg. I bet you work in the government since you are so good at carelessly spending other peoples money so easy. Also saying that all the people who kept FW and the HH game in business are idiots for spending so much. I'm glad Mr Bligh isn't around to see this he poured his heart and soul in the HH and and the whole HH time line for the novels and black books. You do know it was basically him and a few of the BL writers who scripted out the whole time line for the HH.
That's the great thing about resin and metal models. The turn around time on them is so quick. They can print up a master and have molds done by the end of the day. Plastic takes so long because its so resource intensive. You need to fit it into the production schedule, you need to fit the models into a release because you're not going to cut molds for one model. You need to coordinate between management, sculptors, authors, the mold makers ( which is all done in house now), the plastic production crew.....its a huge undertaking.
Now resin or metal someone can sculpt up a model in a weekend like Jes and the other sculptors used to all the time and have it in a rubber mold and being produced by lunchtime. That's where FW shines. How do you think the solar auxiliary came around? It was either Simons or Edgars personal army he was making and Mr Bligh liked it them so much they put them in the game. That's how FW should of worked. Sadly after Mr Blighs passing they got infected with middle management and were running out of idea's/ didn't have enough of Mr Blights notes around. The first three HH black books where amazing. Then GW switched to 7th edition and they had to scramble to make the game work with 7th. Those are books 4-5. After that Mr Bligh got sick really fast and sadly passed away. I believe he was the foil to GW upper management. He knew how to 'play the game' with middle and upper management so they would leave FW alone and let them do what they wanted, kind like how FW always operated until HH. They had enough idea's to do book 6 (another filler book) and the bare minimum for book 7 which was total garbage and gave us the upside down bolters on the space wolves....ugh.
Mr Bligh seemed to run the show in all but name for FW. I know it's a group effort but he seemed to be the glue there and the spirit of HH which seemed to be a love letter to old 30/40k fans. But sadly after his passing FW kinda went down the crapper. The releases got longer and longer, the quality dropped considerably and it seemed more like a main line GW product dressed up in HH. The tone of the books changed, the rules got WTF???, the art work and layouts changed. I am just grateful they completed HH in 1.0 and its a self contained game. It's not to hard to add new stuff like the Kratos to 1.0. GW is notorious for leaving stuff half finished and just dropping it once it doesn't meet the profit expectations.
Horus Heresy will always be a mixed game of resin/plastic. It doesn't make sense on the scale of legion specific models, shoulder pads, helmets, bodies to do huge runs of plastic for them. It doesn't make sense to have mixed units on a single plastic mold because if until 1 is selling like hotcakes but untils 2,3,4 aren't that's a total waste of production time and plastic. GW couldn't economically recycle HIPS back into a use able material to off set the cost like you could with Metal models. I personally love metal models, it has come a long way since the 70's, 80's and 90's. Look at the stuff Corvus Belli is putting out. A lot of their metal models blow GW's plastics out of the water in detail and undercuts. But the cost of metal is sky rocketing ( although HIPS is a Hydrocarbon so... that doesn't say much I guess) and that was one of the reasons GW got out of metal models was the uncertainty of supply for metal.
gianlucafiorentini123 wrote: The preview article looks like it’s been taken down so hopefully that was a mistake and they’re adding more.
The article is up now, and the only difference to the video is the Army List books coming as ePub.
DA:
Spoiler:
MTO Kits:
Spoiler:
All five sets will be available via Made to Order from 10am local time on Saturday the 6th of August 2022 until 8am BST globally on Monday the 15th of August, so don’t miss out.
Anyone else get the impression they were surprised by how many people seem to like the game?
It seems like it’s getting the “obscure side game” release schedule rather than the “third core game” one.
It does feel like it; I was expecting some more core infantry to have at least been announced by now; assault/despoilers, breachers, and we still don't have an announced release for the last of the previewed heavy weapons. My take is these should have been at the forefront of a new launch. :S
Liber epubs, about flocking time! I've been waiting for my army lists, glad I refused the urge to go for the physical editions earlier. I was even worried for a while that we wouldn't be getting anything else than the main rulebook, considering these took so long to get released.
Now if we could just get the Heavy Weapon upgrade with the Lascannons etc, that would be great. My 40K Devastator squads need a few Las/Plas.
Anyone else get the impression they were surprised by how many people seem to like the game?
It seems like it’s getting the “obscure side game” release schedule rather than the “third core game” one.
It does feel like it; I was expecting some more core infantry to have at least been announced by now; assault/despoilers, breachers, and we still don't have an announced release for the last of the previewed heavy weapons. My take is these should have been at the forefront of a new launch. :S
Shooty Leviathan, Predator, Sicaran, two sets of Heavy Weapons. Pretty sure there’s another one or two things officially previewed I’ve forgotten?
Instead, they're doubling down on Warcry because... Surely some ugly nurgle swamp people and not-chaos-dwarves was what people REALLY want to have two weeks in a row.
in b4 someone reports on a big distribution chain issue, because at this point that's all that can explain this bizarre release schedule. You'd think Horus Heresy or at least getting the rest of the Chaos Marine kits out would be a bit of a higher priority.
Well we do know their supply chain has been screwy, and we of course know why. It’s even referenced in their Annual Report that it’s particularly affected AoS’ release schedule.
Anyone else get the impression they were surprised by how many people seem to like the game?
It seems like it’s getting the “obscure side game” release schedule rather than the “third core game” one.
That’s probably it isn’t a “third core game”. It’s getting a SG-style schedule, and with that comes some pauses and delays and quick sellouts.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote: Instead, they're doubling down on Warcry because... Surely some ugly nurgle swamp people and not-chaos-dwarves was what people REALLY want to have two weeks in a row.
in b4 someone reports on a big distribution chain issue, because at this point that's all that can explain this bizarre release schedule. You'd think Horus Heresy or at least getting the rest of the Chaos Marine kits out would be a bit of a higher priority.
To be fair, some people couldn’t care less about more space marines with slightly different armor shapes. Especially week after week of them.
Anyone else get the impression they were surprised by how many people seem to like the game?
It seems like it’s getting the “obscure side game” release schedule rather than the “third core game” one.
That’s probably it isn’t a “third core game”. It’s getting a SG-style schedule, and with that comes some pauses and delays and quick sellouts.
That may have been how they originally intended it, but you'd think that with how well all of the HH stuff appears to be selling (and selling out), that they'd eventually get the hint that it's turning out to be more popular than they expected. And maybe at least try to get some more of the already previewed stuff out.
Anyone else get the impression they were surprised by how many people seem to like the game?
It seems like it’s getting the “obscure side game” release schedule rather than the “third core game” one.
That’s probably it isn’t a “third core game”. It’s getting a SG-style schedule, and with that comes some pauses and delays and quick sellouts.
That may have been how they originally intended it, but you'd think that with how well all of the HH stuff appears to be selling (and selling out), that they'd eventually get the hint that it's turning out to be more popular than they expected. And maybe at least try to get some more of the already previewed stuff out.
It could be they’ve slightly changed tack, and are ramping up production to better meet initial demand?
Anyone else get the impression they were surprised by how many people seem to like the game?
It seems like it’s getting the “obscure side game” release schedule rather than the “third core game” one.
That’s probably it isn’t a “third core game”. It’s getting a SG-style schedule, and with that comes some pauses and delays and quick sellouts.
That may have been how they originally intended it, but you'd think that with how well all of the HH stuff appears to be selling (and selling out), that they'd eventually get the hint that it's turning out to be more popular than they expected. And maybe at least try to get some more of the already previewed stuff out.
It could be they’ve slightly changed tack, and are ramping up production to better meet initial demand?
Maybe? But I don't see any evidence of that yet. I think it's more of a "production issues" thing. There's too much stuff that's been in the pipeline for too long. And not just for HH.
But HH is a core game to them, alongside AoS, 40k and Middle Earth. It's got its own section on the store along the top ribbon.
None of the others - Underworlds, Kill Team, Aeronautica, Titanicus, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Quest or even the newly revamped Warcry - get their own spot up the top.
Anyone else get the impression they were surprised by how many people seem to like the game?
It seems like it’s getting the “obscure side game” release schedule rather than the “third core game” one.
That’s probably it isn’t a “third core game”. It’s getting a SG-style schedule, and with that comes some pauses and delays and quick sellouts.
That may have been how they originally intended it, but you'd think that with how well all of the HH stuff appears to be selling (and selling out), that they'd eventually get the hint that it's turning out to be more popular than they expected. And maybe at least try to get some more of the already previewed stuff out.
It could be they’ve slightly changed tack, and are ramping up production to better meet initial demand?
Maybe? But I don't see any evidence of that yet. I think it's more of a "production issues" thing. There's too much stuff that's been in the pipeline for too long. And not just for HH.
Agreed. Don't know if they over-reached, if its shipping related or just general production or staffing, but something tossed a spanner in and everything is out of whack. HH is still playing catch up to its initial releases (tanks out of stock pretty much consistently), its early previews are still nowhere to be seen (anyone remember the Sicaran?), chaos marines have all sorts of issues and someone would have to do a lot of work to convince me that Warcry needed a two-week window.
Anyone else get the impression they were surprised by how many people seem to like the game?
It seems like it’s getting the “obscure side game” release schedule rather than the “third core game” one.
It does feel like it; I was expecting some more core infantry to have at least been announced by now; assault/despoilers, breachers, and we still don't have an announced release for the last of the previewed heavy weapons. My take is these should have been at the forefront of a new launch. :S
Shooty Leviathan, Predator, Sicaran, two sets of Heavy Weapons. Pretty sure there’s another one or two things officially previewed I’ve forgotten?
I think that's all the plastic stuff previewed yea. Then there's the resin characters like Lucius and the resin Praetors.
If you refer to nothing announced this sunday it was known last week already. Whenever there's 2 week preorder you know toys and books is best you can get.
It's same for 40k and aos. Hh isn't special snowflake.
Anyone else get the impression they were surprised by how many people seem to like the game?
It seems like it’s getting the “obscure side game” release schedule rather than the “third core game” one.
It does feel like it; I was expecting some more core infantry to have at least been announced by now; assault/despoilers, breachers, and we still don't have an announced release for the last of the previewed heavy weapons. My take is these should have been at the forefront of a new launch. :S
Shooty Leviathan, Predator, Sicaran, two sets of Heavy Weapons. Pretty sure there’s another one or two things officially previewed I’ve forgotten?
I think that's all the plastic stuff previewed yea. Then there's the resin characters like Lucius and the resin Praetors.
Are we not missing another Special Weapons set? Grav guns and whatnot?
Anyone else get the impression they were surprised by how many people seem to like the game?
It seems like it’s getting the “obscure side game” release schedule rather than the “third core game” one.
That’s probably it isn’t a “third core game”. It’s getting a SG-style schedule, and with that comes some pauses and delays and quick sellouts.
That may have been how they originally intended it, but you'd think that with how well all of the HH stuff appears to be selling (and selling out), that they'd eventually get the hint that it's turning out to be more popular than they expected. And maybe at least try to get some more of the already previewed stuff out.
It could be they’ve slightly changed tack, and are ramping up production to better meet initial demand?
Maybe? But I don't see any evidence of that yet. I think it's more of a "production issues" thing. There's too much stuff that's been in the pipeline for too long. And not just for HH.
Could be six of one, half dozen of the other.
Release schedule all compressed and wonky. HH stuff seemingly selling Like Hotcakes.
Capacity shifted to churn out new stock of released stuff. Previewed stuff being held back a bit so it can go to market with a much larger initial stock, to hopefully remain in stock until production returns more or less to normal (as in So Many A Week to maintain consistent on-shelf, without a warehouse full of it).
Certainly I can happily accept the Deimos Predator being delayed, as we can have squadrons of four, and they need the chassis for the Rhino too. Entirely speculative, but I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if the chassis intended for the Predator being used to get the Rhino back on the shelf.
Ultimately we’ll never know. But speculating can be fun in itself.
Dark Angels. Got my heart set on an Iron Wing, because Tanks are hella cool, but also want a decent core of infantry so I’m not completely restricted to Just Tanks All The Time Every Time.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Right. Choncclestiltskin the Leviathan is mostly built, with just the arms to go.
Looks like the fist assembly is going to be magnetisable to the armoured upper arm. Anyone know what size magnets would suit best?
drbored wrote: Instead, they're doubling down on Warcry because... Surely some ugly nurgle swamp people and not-chaos-dwarves was what people REALLY want to have two weeks in a row.
Seeing Warcry is vastly more popular than HH, yup, pretty much. Especially seeing it also introduces new, improved edition of the game. Try counting Warcry events vs HH ones then come back and tell us what people really want
"base your models according to their current boxed kit" - I hope this will finally settle repeating discussion on bases in HH/40K (especially these 1-2 usual cheaters per discussion actively basing new models on old, obsolete bases to gain advantage then smugly claiming there is no rule against it)...
Irbis wrote: Seeing Warcry is vastly more popular than HH, yup, pretty much. Especially seeing it also introduces new, improved edition of the game. Try counting Warcry events vs HH ones then come back and tell us what people really want
It's HH. HH is waaaaaaay more popular than Warcry.
Regardless it really doesn't matter, the release schedule is what it is and the popularity of a system doesn't control what GW releases. Warcry had the slot so Warcry gets the release. It's not rocket science.
drbored wrote: Instead, they're doubling down on Warcry because... Surely some ugly nurgle swamp people and not-chaos-dwarves was what people REALLY want to have two weeks in a row.
Seeing Warcry is vastly more popular than HH, yup, pretty much. Especially seeing it also introduces new, improved edition of the game. Try counting Warcry events vs HH ones then come back and tell us what people really want
My old Warhammer store sold about 40 HH starter boxes on preorder. The entire perimeter of the floor of the store was lined with boxes with names written on them for release day because he had too many to store them in the back. I don't think he's ever sold a Warcry box or even had a Warcry game played in that building. My current FLGS got 2-3 copies of every HH release and has sold out of everything the day it hit shelves. They have Warcry boxes from a year ago that sit around collecting dust.
drbored wrote: Instead, they're doubling down on Warcry because... Surely some ugly nurgle swamp people and not-chaos-dwarves was what people REALLY want to have two weeks in a row.
Seeing Warcry is vastly more popular than HH, yup, pretty much. Especially seeing it also introduces new, improved edition of the game. Try counting Warcry events vs HH ones then come back and tell us what people really want
What an absolutely wild statement to make with no evidence.
drbored wrote: Instead, they're doubling down on Warcry because... Surely some ugly nurgle swamp people and not-chaos-dwarves was what people REALLY want to have two weeks in a row.
Seeing Warcry is vastly more popular than HH, yup, pretty much. Especially seeing it also introduces new, improved edition of the game. Try counting Warcry events vs HH ones then come back and tell us what people really want
What an absolutely wild statement to make with no evidence.
Well the thing *I'm* into is always vastly more popular than the thing *you're* into
drbored wrote: Instead, they're doubling down on Warcry because... Surely some ugly nurgle swamp people and not-chaos-dwarves was what people REALLY want to have two weeks in a row.
Seeing Warcry is vastly more popular than HH, yup, pretty much. Especially seeing it also introduces new, improved edition of the game. Try counting Warcry events vs HH ones then come back and tell us what people really want
What an absolutely wild statement to make with no evidence.
Irbis, what happened? You used to say stuff that could technically be true if you used massively contorted definitions or something similar. Now it's always just emphatically false statements. Is everything alright?
Anyone else get the impression they were surprised by how many people seem to like the game?
It seems like it’s getting the “obscure side game” release schedule rather than the “third core game” one.
It does feel like it; I was expecting some more core infantry to have at least been announced by now; assault/despoilers, breachers, and we still don't have an announced release for the last of the previewed heavy weapons. My take is these should have been at the forefront of a new launch. :S
Shooty Leviathan, Predator, Sicaran, two sets of Heavy Weapons. Pretty sure there’s another one or two things officially previewed I’ve forgotten?
I think that's all the plastic stuff previewed yea. Then there's the resin characters like Lucius and the resin Praetors.
This is a big one, as you can mix and match with the big box contemptor to give full loadouts to both. Mine is still unbuilt for this exact reason, was hoping to see this by now. The melee leviathan really pipped everything at the post.
Probably good sales strategy to put the Leviathan out first, due to many people having Contemptors already plus I imagine they'll sell more Leviathan + Contemptor later than they would Contemptor + Leviathan later.
JWBS wrote: Probably good sales strategy to put the Leviathan out first, due to many people having Contemptors already plus I imagine they'll sell more Leviathan + Contemptor later than they would Contemptor + Leviathan later.
As 40k player just wish the gun version was first. Don't know how hh rules are but apart from tiny flexibility you get having 1 of each no benefit from 2 melee weapons. 2 same is totally useless. Seeing it's more of style choice to begin with having 1 meaningfull weapon hurts.
To be fair, some people couldn’t care less about more space marines with slightly different armor shapes. Especially week after week of them.
Some people, but let's be frank, not the vast vast majority of their customer base.
And certainly not anyone interested in Horus Heresy - we're because of all the slightly different armor shapes!
People play HH for the story.
Without a doubt. And that story is legions of Marines fighting Marines fighting Marines. You have Ad Mech, Talons and militia/Imperial Army, but you also have 18+ flavors of Marines. If you don't like Marines, HH can be of limited appeal to you.
Gene St. Ealer wrote: Irbis, what happened? You used to say stuff that could technically be true if you used massively contorted definitions or something similar. Now it's always just emphatically false statements. Is everything alright?
Shhh! We don't want him to change. He's far too entertaining.
I mean, Warcry more popular than HH? This is more of his anti-FW bias, no doubt, which makes even less sense given the current state of HH. And that makes it even more hilarious.
Live him be. Threads need levity, even if it's unintentional.
He must live in the only local meta on Earth where Warcry is more popular than HH. The only other option is that he's lying but we all know that couldn't be it...
To be fair, some people couldn’t care less about more space marines with slightly different armor shapes. Especially week after week of them.
Some people, but let's be frank, not the vast vast majority of their customer base.
And certainly not anyone interested in Horus Heresy - we're because of all the slightly different armor shapes!
People play HH for the story.
Like how people buy playboys for the articles.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Toofast wrote: He must live in the only local meta on Earth where Warcry is more popular than HH. The only other option is that he's lying but we all know that couldn't be it...
My local area HH has gotten zero traction. Our local stores haven't even been able to sell the box set to 40k space marine players, which is crazy to me because it's a fantastic deal.
We have some people talking about how they WANT to do heresy, but no one willing to build an army, much less a community.
Warcry isn't exactly flying off the shelf either but MCP, Star Wars Legion, Bolt Action, and Flames of War are all far more popular locally. Even AoS, which is struggling right now, brings in more people than HH.
But that's all locals. It means literally nothing outside of a 20 minute radius of my house.
To be fair, some people couldn’t care less about more space marines with slightly different armor shapes. Especially week after week of them.
Some people, but let's be frank, not the vast vast majority of their customer base.
And certainly not anyone interested in Horus Heresy - we're because of all the slightly different armor shapes!
People play HH for the story.
Like how people buy playboys for the articles.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Toofast wrote: He must live in the only local meta on Earth where Warcry is more popular than HH. The only other option is that he's lying but we all know that couldn't be it...
My local area HH has gotten zero traction. Our local stores haven't even been able to sell the box set to 40k space marine players, which is crazy to me because it's a fantastic deal.
We have some people talking about how they WANT to do heresy, but no one willing to build an army, much less a community.
Warcry isn't exactly flying off the shelf either but MCP, Star Wars Legion, Bolt Action, and Flames of War are all far more popular locally. Even AoS, which is struggling right now, brings in more people than HH.
But that's all locals. It means literally nothing outside of a 20 minute radius of my house.
My crew is *trying* to get into it as we all have the starter box but nothing else is available. Everything we want/need is out of stock from both GW and FW and has been so since release.
