You do [Episodes] Four, Five and Six and then One, Two, and Three. So in the vein of that history, when you look at the epilogue of Rebels you don't really know how much time has passed. So, it's possible that the story I'm telling in The Mandalorian actually takes place prior to that. Possible. I'm saying it's possible.”
So the Rebels epilogue scene may not have taken place yet and Ahsoka hasn’t gone looking for Ezra yet but if Thrawn is back then ??? (Insert series here)
I found the lightsaber wielding quite slow and laboured in the episode, which could be due to practicality reasons due to Rosario Dawsons lack of specific training in comparison to the standard we expect, it could be due to story telling reasons, namely that Ahsoka is actually getting on in age (though jedi's usually don't slow down all that too much), or and I have an unsupported inkling it was this...
It was due to design, with stripping star wars back a bit from the ridiculous (but cool) acrobatic style of lightsaber combat seen in the recent trilogy. The only issue with that is the inconsistency in regards to Ahsoka in both the clone wars and rebels, she's seen as quite a competent lightsaber duelist in those.
Still, I loved the episode and my comments on the lightsaber welding isn't really a criticism as it didn't ruin the episode for me.
The last time we saw Ahsoka fight someone with a Saber was....well, Vader!
Yes she’ll have fought using her sabers since. But that’s different to duelling someone who can block you.
As a side question for those more knowledgeable...as far as I’m aware, fighting with a sabre is difficult because the blade has no weight - so it’s very different to using a sword as we might. Surely that affects the physics of a scrap when up against Beskar, which can resist your blade.
If you look at her fighting, when blocked all the power is coming from her wrists, whereas the baddie has the physical weight of the Beskar pike to use. Does that not give the baddie the advance?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Would a competent lightsaber duelist be faster and flashier or more likely to find the right position and timing from which to strike?
A fair question, my main observation was the speed of her strikes, which were fairly basic (for a jedi) it seemed like the lightsaber combat from the first trilogy, where they had weight and were more akin to broad swords.
Jedi does come from the Japanese word for period piece (jedaigeki). I doubt it's any revelation that Japanese cinema was highly influential in American film making and George Lucas has never shied away from acknowledging the influence of spaghetti westerns (a genre that borrow more from Japanese films than most) had a big influence on Star Wars.
I am reminded of the most one sided fight in Star Wars - Obi-Wan vs Maul in Rebels nothing flashy just a jedi master totally outclassing his opponent in the most minimal way possible.
more Filoni quotes
She is, for lack of a term, a master, because she’s largely an independent at this point. I play her much more as a knowledgeable knight. A wandering samurai character is what she really is at this point. I’ve always made comparisons to her heading toward the Gandalf stage, where she is the one that has the knowledge of the world and can help others through it. I think she’s reached that point.”
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Would a competent lightsaber duelist be faster and flashier or more likely to find the right position and timing from which to strike?
A fair question, my main observation was the speed of her strikes, which were fairly basic (for a jedi) it seemed like the lightsaber combat from the first trilogy, where they had weight and were more akin to broad swords.
LordofHats wrote: Jedi does come from the Japanese word for period piece (jedaigeki). I doubt it's any revelation that Japanese cinema was highly influential in American film making and George Lucas has never shied away from acknowledging the influence of spaghetti westerns (a genre that borrow more from Japanese films than most) had a big influence on Star Wars.
Kurosawa’s The Hidden Fortress is a major influence on the original Star Wars
You do [Episodes] Four, Five and Six and then One, Two, and Three. So in the vein of that history, when you look at the epilogue of Rebels you don't really know how much time has passed. So, it's possible that the story I'm telling in The Mandalorian actually takes place prior to that. Possible. I'm saying it's possible.”
So the Rebels epilogue scene may not have taken place yet and Ahsoka hasn’t gone looking for Ezra yet but if Thrawn is back then ??? (Insert series here)
Honestly that feels like intentionally crapping on the idea of a timeline (and coherent storytelling) more than anything else.
I mean, if you consider that the original trilogy was like, 2 years, and Rebels ended just as it started, and hers was pregnant at the time, and her kid looked like, 8-10 years old, and Mandalorian takes place 5 years after ROTJ, I can see it taking place just a bit before.
Compel wrote: Or... It was an intentional homage to classic cinema.
Spoiler:
No doubt that episode had 'Samurai film' written all over it. So many touches, from the fight styling, to the (lack of at times) dialogue, to the village design, and even to the prominence of Asian actors.
LordofHats wrote: Jedi does come from the Japanese word for period piece (jedaigeki). I doubt it's any revelation that Japanese cinema was highly influential in American film making and George Lucas has never shied away from acknowledging the influence of spaghetti westerns (a genre that borrow more from Japanese films than most) had a big influence on Star Wars.
It's not even that roundabout, Lucas was a Kurosawa fan and (allegedly) wanted Toshiro Mifune to play Obi Wan originally.
Lucasfilm leans into this influence, if the number of times they've remade Seven Samurai in their shows is any indicator.
LordofHats wrote: Jedi does come from the Japanese word for period piece (jedaigeki). I doubt it's any revelation that Japanese cinema was highly influential in American film making and George Lucas has never shied away from acknowledging the influence of spaghetti westerns (a genre that borrow more from Japanese films than most) had a big influence on Star Wars.
It's not even that roundabout, Lucas was a Kurosawa fan and (allegedly) wanted Toshiro Mifune to play Obi Wan originally.
Lucasfilm leans into this influence, if the number of times they've remade Seven Samurai in their shows is any indicator.
To be fair, who hasn’t done a Seven Samurai remake? “Round up a band of misfits to save the <blank>” shows up a LOT
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I found the lightsaber wielding quite slow and laboured in the episode, which could be due to practicality reasons due to Rosario Dawsons lack of specific training in comparison to the standard we expect, it could be due to story telling reasons, namely that Ahsoka is actually getting on in age (though jedi's usually don't slow down all that too much), or and I have an unsupported inkling it was this...
It was due to design, with stripping star wars back a bit from the ridiculous (but cool) acrobatic style of lightsaber combat seen in the recent trilogy. The only issue with that is the inconsistency in regards to Ahsoka in both the clone wars and rebels, she's seen as quite a competent lightsaber duelist in those.
Still, I loved the episode and my comments on the lightsaber welding isn't really a criticism as it didn't ruin the episode for me.
The lightsaber work is actually perfectly in line with Episodes 4/5/6. It's 1/2/3 that made lightsabers insane.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I found the lightsaber wielding quite slow and laboured in the episode, which could be due to practicality reasons due to Rosario Dawsons lack of specific training in comparison to the standard we expect, it could be due to story telling reasons, namely that Ahsoka is actually getting on in age (though jedi's usually don't slow down all that too much), or and I have an unsupported inkling it was this...
It was due to design, with stripping star wars back a bit from the ridiculous (but cool) acrobatic style of lightsaber combat seen in the recent trilogy. The only issue with that is the inconsistency in regards to Ahsoka in both the clone wars and rebels, she's seen as quite a competent lightsaber duelist in those.
Still, I loved the episode and my comments on the lightsaber welding isn't really a criticism as it didn't ruin the episode for me.
The lightsaber work is actually perfectly in line with Episodes 4/5/6. It's 1/2/3 that made lightsabers insane.
1/2/3 didn't just make lightsabers insane either. Like. In 4/5/6 Luke could do a big flip with the force. In 1/2/3 Anakin could leap out of a speeder fall 100 yards another another speeder going in the other direction and not get instantly turned into a red mist. The running hyper fast. It's insanity what force users are capable of in those movies.
Lance845 wrote: 1/2/3 didn't just make lightsabers insane either. Like. In 4/5/6 Luke could do a big flip with the force. In 1/2/3 Anakin could leap out of a speeder fall 100 yards another another speeder going in the other direction and not get instantly turned into a red mist. The running hyper fast. It's insanity what force users are capable of in those movies.
This was intended to accentuate the difference between the 'Jedi' we see in the OT (a teenager with a week of training, an old guy, and another old guy who's half replacement parts) and the fully trained and fighting fit Republic-era Jedi.
Although on a practical note, it was also because the saber props used in the first couple of movies kept breaking if they got too rough with them, so they accentuated a slower, more deliberate fighting style. The more aggressive fighting shown in RotJ reflected a change to more durable props, and then by the time they made the prequels they had access to even better materials (which Ewan Mcgregor still managed to keep wrecking...)
I feel like Ahsoka's more restrained fighting style in the Mandalorian was intended more to be in keeping with her overall bearing, than to harken to the OT specifically. This isn't the headstrong Ahsoka from the cartoons - she's grown up, and centered herself, and her more considered fighting style goes along with that.
Lets be honest. The prequel change was mostly because that was the direction we were seeing sword fight action in movies take at the time. This was after all, right in line with the Matrix, the anime boom, and all of the rest.
LunarSol wrote: Lets be honest. The prequel change was mostly because that was the direction we were seeing sword fight action in movies take at the time. This was after all, right in line with the Matrix, the anime boom, and all of the rest.
That's part of it, but the advances in technology and materials were what made it possible. Honestly, if George could have included fights like that in the original trilogy, I'm fairly sure he would have.
LunarSol wrote: Lets be honest. The prequel change was mostly because that was the direction we were seeing sword fight action in movies take at the time. This was after all, right in line with the Matrix, the anime boom, and all of the rest.
That's part of it, but the advances in technology and materials were what made it possible. Honestly, if George could have included fights like that in the original trilogy, I'm fairly sure he would have.
Why? During the OT he was channeling Kurosawa, who never had any wire-fu dancefights that I can remember.
LordofHats wrote: Jedi does come from the Japanese word for period piece (jedaigeki). I doubt it's any revelation that Japanese cinema was highly influential in American film making and George Lucas has never shied away from acknowledging the influence of spaghetti westerns (a genre that borrow more from Japanese films than most) had a big influence on Star Wars.
It's not even that roundabout, Lucas was a Kurosawa fan and (allegedly) wanted Toshiro Mifune to play Obi Wan originally.
Lucasfilm leans into this influence, if the number of times they've remade Seven Samurai in their shows is any indicator.
To be fair, who hasn’t done a Seven Samurai remake? “Round up a band of misfits to save the <blank>” shows up a LOT
I'm not saying it's not a commonly revisited trope in western media, but the two times Star Wars did it that I recall (in Clone Wars and Mandalorian) they included enough winks and nods to make it clear they knew exactly who they were paying tribute to.
The producers seem very much aware of the yawning gap between Prequels-era dance fighting and OT-era naturalism. Ahsoka, like Bo-Katan and her goons, fight much more in the former style. Everyone else, much more in the latter. But on the whole, this series prefers the latter for everyone.
AduroT wrote: I’ve heard originally George wanted light sabers to always require two hands to use, as it was needed to control their incredible power.
They were supposed to be really heavy. It's hard to say now if that was the original idea or the result of having to tone down the fighting style... George is rather unreliable when it comes to which ideas came when, or what his original intentions were.
AduroT wrote: I’ve heard originally George wanted light sabers to always require two hands to use, as it was needed to control their incredible power.
I quite like idea myself. And I’ll tell you why; it suggests that they’re so powerful you need to use the force to keep them under control. This might be too comical but with this idea I’ve suddenly got the image of a lightsaber being like a firehose; wildly dangerous and uncontrollable. Like if a non force user or novice activated it would literally floor them, whilst the energy shoots out all over the place.
I have just watched an Episode of The Clone Wars where Padme picks up Anakin's lightsaber and comments that it's heavier than she expected.
Regarding Asoka's fighting style - it's different at different points in the episode. When up against the Goons outside the wall, she's a running, jumping, slicing machine. Against the Mando, she's pretty much a whirling dervish until he gets a word in edgeways and persuades her to stop. Then it's back to running over rooftops, backfliping behind people - all Prequel era looking stuff.
But then the fight that actually matters - the one where it isn't a nameless goon - it all slows RIGHT down. We're back in Original Trilogy swordfighting, where the expressions on the faces mean a lot more than the swishy-ness of the swords.
Very well done. Picked the right styles for the time within the episode.
Manchu wrote: The producers seem very much aware of the yawning gap between Prequels-era dance fighting and OT-era naturalism. Ahsoka, like Bo-Katan and her goons, fight much more in the former style. Everyone else, much more in the latter. But on the whole, this series prefers the latter for everyone.
I wonder how much of that is a conscious asthetic choice and how much of that boils down to budget. Alot of the prequel scenes were filmed entirely on green screen and later fully CGI'ed around the actors/stuntmen whereas alot of the Mandalorian is being done on their circumferential giant OLED screen physical set. There are limits to the amount of double flip bounce of the wall twist while sliding in between giant moving parts that you can do on the latter given the phsyical limitations and lower budget. I'm not saying that asthetics don't factor into the decision but they may be necessitated in most scenes by the other factors.
Considering how they handled the lightsaber fights in the sequel movies, I'd say this is a conscious choice on the part of the producers to let flashier lightsaber duels be a halmark of the prequel era.
Ahsoka's choreography has the unenviable task of having to bridge prequel-inspired whimsy and the sheer superhuman feats of the cartoon characters with the more weighty style of the OT and Sequel lightsaber battles.
insaniak wrote:They were supposed to be really heavy. It's hard to say now if that was the original idea or the result of having to tone down the fighting style... George is rather unreliable when it comes to which ideas came when, or what his original intentions were.
Graphite wrote:I have just watched an Episode of The Clone Wars where Padme picks up Anakin's lightsaber and comments that it's heavier than she expected.
If you've ever held a spinning gyroscope I like to think an ignited lightsaber feels something like that: a strange, almost counterintuitive resisting force that acts against you whenever you try to rotate it or change its position. It's something you can brute force your way through and wield more like a cudgel or a bat, but with enough time and refinement you can use that resisting force to your advantage and incorporate it into your style (hence, flashy spinning dance moves)
That's probably how I'll describe it if my players ever find a lightsaber... god help me.
It was also mentioned in rebels (i think) that the blades have a polarizing force from their energy field. The blades attract each other. Light saber fighting isnt as simple as swinging an edge. You are trying to control this thing that wants to pull and push in other directions.
Welp just caught the latest episode. didn't expect to find something that was exciting and revealationy as last epiosde. I WAS WRONG!
Spoiler:
My expectations re Boba Fett where completely wrong, and it looks like he'll be on the side of angels for the finalle. it was nice to see Jango's status as being Mandalorian cemented and FINALLY we got to see WHY Fett has the rep he has
Look, I know I said that an interesting take on Boba Fett would be to do a 'stolen valour' style storyline, and whilst I still think that would be better, the 'Triumphant Return of Boba Fett' angle works really well. That was such a cool episode.
Seeing Slave I just fly in was a big "holy gak" moment, and then the two (later three) of them just wrecking shop with the Storm Troopers (who continue to completely suck). We got to see his other weapons, even his knee blasters, in action. And Boba Fett finally fired his rocket launcher! Agent May continues to show off her SHIELD specialist skills. I think she only missed once or twice. And Din... left his rocket pack behind. I guess he picked it up before leaving.
And the Crest! Oh no!
I did not expect them to blast his ship to pieces. No surprises the spear survived. How else can he fight Gideon in the finale.
Interesting that we didn't learn who Baby Yoda communicated, if anyone. Those Dark Troopers seemed a bit off. Just droids. I thought they'd get a better showing, even if just laying down suppressing fire whilst one of them scooped up the sleepy baby. And Baby Yoda throwing a pair of Stormies around the room as if they were nothing, and then getting oh so sleepy. Even when he's violent he's cute.
Great that May and Boba are staying with Mando, as is the friggin' Slave I!!!
Yeah... so looking forward to next week. No idea what's going to happen, other than Beskar Staff v Dark Saber.
Manchu wrote: The producers seem very much aware of the yawning gap between Prequels-era dance fighting and OT-era naturalism.
I've never quite understood the pining for "naturalism" like the OT.
We saw an old man, a cripple, and a scarcely trained boy fighting in the OT. They were not representative of Jedi sabre fighting. That's what the PT is.
I suspect Din vs Gideon might be saved for next season?
We’ve two Chapters to go. Next one seems set to be Din putting together a crew. Which would leave the finale to be finding and taking down Gideon.
In terms of Din’s magnificent seven? Din, Boba, Fennec, Mayfeld, Bo-Katan, Koska, Axe and Ahsoka. 5 Mandalorians, two sharp shooters and a former Jedi. That’s my reckons on it, anyway. Probably with backup organised by Cara
What were those Imperial ships, sardine cans with engines strapped to the sides? Flying clown cars? They were about the same size as the Razor Crest but the troopers just kept coming!
Boba Fett is terrifying. Apparently, it was necessary for him to make up for RotJ and then some in a single episode.
Fennec Shand is apparently Widowmaker hitting flick shots and 180 no scopes while jumping off of hills.
Tython was bland.
Stormtroopers are idiots and apparently every SW truly hates them.
Grogu force choking Stormtroopers does not bode well.
While The Mandalorian is good (enough) and fun, the writing isn't any better than the best of the EU so far. The Thrawn Trilogy remains a superior story to me and the way the two storylines portray the Imperial Remnant is night and day. Thrawn suffered some from being an OtT villain and the trilogy had some other shortcomings as well (Luuuuuuke), but his Imperial forces were at least competent and an actual threat. Gideon's forces are a threat only because they're facing off against a single, naive Mandalorian and his revolving door of 1-3 episodic allies. The New Republic (even without Luke) should curb stomp what we've seen of Gideon's forces.
My one sentence criticism would be: Incompetent cannon fodder can work when you have overwhelming numbers and the Imperial Remnant under Gideon shouldn't have numbers they can just throw away.
Concerning Luke Skywalker:
Spoiler:
The show is now including a character that knows about Luke Skywalker. Vader discussed him with Fett and Fett saw him in action during RotJ. How do the writers keep pretending that Luke doesn't exist, especially if Fett witnesses Mando working with the New Republic?
It's like...dude...they have a Jedi...just ask about him.
As a 40something whose first ever PC game was Dark Forces (because why buy Doom when you can buy Star Wars Doom am I right?) I actually yelped!!!
Its been a long, long time since Star Wars made me feel this excited for the next one but boy! are they knocking it out of the park with this series, and thats without the Fett turning up and acting Exactly the way I always imagined he would!
They finally took the plunge. Jango Fett is a Mandalorian, we can stop taking Prime Minister Almec's word on the matter (considering he lied about literally everything else, all the better.)
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've never quite understood the pining for "naturalism" like the OT.
We saw an old man, a cripple, and a scarcely trained boy fighting in the OT. They were not representative of Jedi sabre fighting. That's what the PT is.
That's all well and good, but it looks fake. Distractingly so.
Episode 1's duels were relatively conservative with it and could probably have been the standard the PT could follow, but Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith kept trying to one-up it to the point where you had Anakin and Obi Wan were twirling their lightsabers around themselves, completely open, not hitting each other. And for all the rationalizations it gets it still look so fake.
trexmeyer wrote:
Spoiler:
Stormtroopers are idiots and apparently every SW truly hates them.
I think I posted this earlier but I think it bears repeating.
trexmeyer wrote:While The Mandalorian is good (enough) and fun, the writing isn't any better than the best of the EU so far. The Thrawn Trilogy remains a superior story to me and the way the two storylines portray the Imperial Remnant is night and day. Thrawn suffered some from being an OtT villain and the trilogy had some other shortcomings as well (Luuuuuuke), but his Imperial forces were at least competent and an actual threat. Gideon's forces are a threat only because they're facing off against a single, naive Mandalorian and his revolving door of 1-3 episodic allies. The New Republic (even without Luke) should curb stomp what we've seen of Gideon's forces.
For what it's worth (and this is speaking as someone who doesn't like Thrawn so much) I think if you're looking for the kinds of levels of competence you saw only saw in certain Star Wars books you probably aren't likely to see them outside of certain Star Wars books. There's this sort of mean standard for how threatening the Empire is allowed to be in any given media, and the further you get from the screen (or old-school screen canon) the further they're allowed to vary from the norm.
trexmeyer wrote:Concerning Luke Skywalker:
Spoiler:
The show is now including a character that knows about Luke Skywalker. Vader discussed him with Fett and Fett saw him in action during RotJ. How do the writers keep pretending that Luke doesn't exist, especially if Fett witnesses Mando working with the New Republic?
It's like...dude...they have a Jedi...just ask about him.
I see a lot of griping on the internet claiming that Disney is trying to 'diminish' Luke's importance to the setting, it's mostly just clickbait, taking a passage from Alphabet Squadron where a character claims Jyn Erso was more responsible for the Death Star's destruction but excluding other instances in the same book where he's referred to with awe; but I do think there's a kernal of truth to it: every major conflict in the old EU required Luke, Han, and/or Leia to intervene (even in Legacy, where Luke's ghost had to pop in and talk the talk a century after his death) and Lucasfilm is clearly very gun shy about falling into the same trap.
Spoiler:
I think at this point though, yeah. If Mando puts together a crew again and Ahsoka is involved they're probably going to have to provide some kind of in-universe explanation as to why Luke isn't involved (out of universe of course being that the de-aging effects are expensive) since I'm guessing he's in his Jedi teaching phase at this point in the canon timeline.
Boba only ever saw him slinging a Lightsaber around, and failing to mind trick Jabba. Given he was there for the first battle of Geonosis, Luke’s showing probably wasn’t all that impressive.
The rest of Luke’s stuff? Well, in Jedi, to the outside observer, it was Han (leading the commando strike) and Lando/Wedge taking out the Deathstar. Who actually knew, or particularly cared, that Vader turned on his master to save his son?
I don’t think anyone actually saw Luke do anything even vaguely Force related outside of Ben, Yoda, Vader and Palpatine (spin off new canon not withstanding, as I’ve not read much set in the original trilogy)
I've never quite understood the pining for "naturalism" like the OT.
We saw an old man, a cripple, and a scarcely trained boy fighting in the OT. They were not representative of Jedi sabre fighting. That's what the PT is.
For me, it's that the prequels and such went very Wuxia and I've never liked Wuxia action. It's kind of over the top but in an obviously fake way. Speeding it up so that they're not obviously guys and gals on strings doesn't change how silly it looks to me. Every fight was over choreographed, and more like a dance routine than a fight. I think the sequels actually struck a decent balance in their limited saber fights. They were good, but not over the top with flips and spins that didn't make a lick of sense. In the prequels fights just felt so fake, which didn't help the general sense of fakeness throughout the entire prequel trilogy.
The OT was very much the kind of quick precise fighting you'd see in a Japanese samurai film and that's definitely more my preference.
Going by Alphabet Squadron again (set a few years before Mandalorian) we know that word has at least gotten amongst the New Republic military that General Skywalker is a Jedi ("and inheritor of some grand destiny" if I remember the quote) but among them exactly what the Jedi were (or are) seems to have been seriously muddied.
There's basically a generational gap in understanding the Jedi by the time we see this era, in the core systems you have old people who claim the Jedi led armies and tried to assassinate the chancellor leading to the empire's formation middle agers who know the Jedi were a small cult that never had any real power that conspired with the separatists, and younger people who were told the Jedi never existed.
But we do know that Luke's Jedi ties are known well enough that new and esoteric force cults are starting to crop up all over the galaxy.
I don't know about 'diminishing Lukes importance' but it's also, like... A *BIG* galaxy out there.
And you've got a Moff running around with a Light Cruiser.
Sure it's a problem and a problem that's going to need to be dealt with.
But is it a "Drag one guy out of the trillions and trillions and trillions of people from one end of the galaxy to the other, in the Outer Rim, problem?"
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the Arc Hammer shows up now...
However, just going by what the Republic can conceivably know right now, there's not really any real reason for anyone more influential than Ahsoka (who is, we shouldn't forget, is already a REAL BIG DEAL) to show up.
Like, worst case scenario, from everything seen so far, it's like, "ok, we'll send a Task Force to deal with it, being made up of a half dozen capital ships."
Republic might know more than we think. We know the one pilot has been asking around about what Mando’s been up to. Who knows what he’s dug up off screen and reported back to the higher ups.
AduroT wrote: Republic might know more than we think. We know the one pilot has been asking around about what Mando’s been up to. Who knows what he’s dug up off screen and reported back to the higher ups.
That’s true. With Cars being back on the roster, reinforcements could be easier to rustle up...
AduroT wrote: Republic might know more than we think. We know the one pilot has been asking around about what Mando’s been up to. Who knows what he’s dug up off screen and reported back to the higher ups.
It does sort of feel like they're setting up for one of those 'Heros are in a bind, The Imperials have overwhelming numbers, they're all doomed... Oh, look! A wild Republic Fleet appears!' sort of moments somewhere down the line.
Cunning Boarding action of the Aquitens in a Magnificent Seven stylee.
Goes reasonably well (I mean, whomever tags along, they’ve got mad skills), until the rest of Gideon’s fleet arrives, requiring a withdrawal and a whistle blow?
"The Arrival of the Cavalry" is a classic Western trope.
I just don't think it'll be, like, The Entire New Republic Fleet with Luke Skywalker and Wedge Antilles at the helm.
It'll just be like, the Star Wars equivalent of a cavalry squadron. Yay, heroic, and yay good enough to have an impact and provide stuff going forward, but nothing overly showy.
After the previous couple of episodes, I thought that they might take it easy for the episode prior to the obvious big two finale episodes - it's the kind of pacing that's been ingrained into TV shows, but nope! Balls out mentalness!
This stuff is playing out like a long-term fan's wet dream; if someone had said halfway through season one, "Ooh, I wonder if Luke is going to show up", I'd have laughed at them. Now, I'm not going to discount anything.
Boba only ever saw him slinging a Lightsaber around, and failing to mind trick Jabba. Given he was there for the first battle of Geonosis, Luke’s showing probably wasn’t all that impressive.
The rest of Luke’s stuff? Well, in Jedi, to the outside observer, it was Han (leading the commando strike) and Lando/Wedge taking out the Deathstar. Who actually knew, or particularly cared, that Vader turned on his master to save his son?
I don’t think anyone actually saw Luke do anything even vaguely Force related outside of Ben, Yoda, Vader and Palpatine (spin off new canon not withstanding, as I’ve not read much set in the original trilogy)
In Ep 8 the kids are telling stories about Luke Skywalker and his role in defeating the Empire and then the first order. Rey also knows about him as a hero of the rebellion. Whether or not people have first hand knowledge of Luke as a Jedi or not is beside the point. The STORIES of Luke are being told and retold around the galaxy and probably inflated with every telling.
Boba only ever saw him slinging a Lightsaber around, and failing to mind trick Jabba. Given he was there for the first battle of Geonosis, Luke’s showing probably wasn’t all that impressive.
He did announce to a room full of criminals that he was a Jedi Knight, in the heart of Jabba's criminal empire, and if Jabba didn't cooperate, he'd regret it. Jabba then ends up dead.
That kind of thing would get around.
The rest of Luke’s stuff? Well, in Jedi, to the outside observer, it was Han (leading the commando strike) and Lando/Wedge taking out the Deathstar. Who actually knew, or particularly cared, that Vader turned on his master to save his son?
I don’t think anyone actually saw Luke do anything even vaguely Force related outside of Ben, Yoda, Vader and Palpatine (spin off new canon not withstanding, as I’ve not read much set in the original trilogy)
Stuff set during the OT was very generous with the idea that the galaxy knew he was a Jedi.
In the new trilogy, no one is confused about the idea of Jedi. Or Luke Skywalker being a Jedi.
Admittedly no one is puzzled or surprised by the New Order either, which makes the Republic indifference and the need for a Resistance very, very confusing in The Force Awakens.
S2E6 is the worst episode of The Mandalorian I have seen.
Which doesn’t mean it’s terrible, considering every other episode has been between good and great.
But S2E6 was not good. I don’t like how a show about low stakes is careening towards “epic” with minimal time for characterization and meaningful set up/pay off structures. There’s some neat stuff in this episode but it’s crammed in amid essentially boring action scenes.
Manchu wrote: The producers seem very much aware of the yawning gap between Prequels-era dance fighting and OT-era naturalism.
I've never quite understood the pining for "naturalism" like the OT.
We saw an old man, a cripple, and a scarcely trained boy fighting in the OT.
Simple, because SW is about character emotional development rather than special effects. This was somewhat understood by Force Awakens, especially in the climactic Finn-Rey-Kylo fight. Also done really well in Solo.
Compel wrote: I don't know about 'diminishing Lukes importance' but it's also, like... A *BIG* galaxy out there.
Honestly, that was the crippling fault of the EU by the end. The big three and friends solved all the problems over and over to the point where the whole setting kind of collapsed around them. That's why the most memorable stories are the ones that featured other characters and actually pushed the setting out.
The EU? It's the problem NOW. Every character in starwars basically lives on the same block. They can't help but run into each other constantly. And then you introduce a brand new character on a brand new planet and he, in a matter of weeks to months, stumbles into a veritable whos who of the Starwars cast. "Welcome to the neighborhood Dinn! We just wanted to let you know that since you now live on Starwars street that me, Ahsoka Tano is your neighbor. And that house over there is Bo Katan. And right over there is Bobba Fett. And if you just turn the corner you can meet Luke Skywalker, Kyle Katarn, and Chewbacca. Don't worry. You will get to know everyone soon enough."
LordofHats wrote: Speeding it up so that they're not obviously guys and gals on strings doesn't change how silly it looks to me.
I don't recall them speeding up anything in the sabre fights.
I mean it's faster than a typical wuxia action scene, where characters will often be suspended in their air as if floating and are clearly hanging from strings. The action in the prequels is more fluid than that, but still imo rather silly and overdone in effect.
I do agree with Manchu's interpretation, but I don't think the last episode was the absolute worst. It did have a lot of problems: questionable action sequences,
Spoiler:
Boba Fett is suddenly honorable (he sort of was in the EU depending on the story)
, some questionable shots (yay Robert Rodriguez), and terrible scenery. Honestly, the scenery in the last episode was no better than Star Trek TOS.
What annoys me in particular is that the ST was bad. It had great visuals and I liked the lightsaber fights despite the choreography being unrealistic...but who wants to see lightsaber fencing? The writing was bad and the writing for The Mandalorian isn't anything special. The EU was dropped and largely ignored, supposedly for something better. None of the Disney canon is markedly better and a lot of it is worse. They certainly haven't released anything on par with the best of the EU, despite having that as potential inspiration.
Edit:
Concerning the PT lightsaber duels. I think most people agree that the Duel of the Fates was the highlight of The Phantom Menace, even at the time of release. I think George Lucas likely took note of that and went too far with that style in the following films.
In fact, we’ve previously seen him do precious little, beyond tail the Falcon, and then get knocked into the Sarlacc having not achieved a huge amount during the battle.
trexmeyer wrote: . Honestly, the scenery in the last episode was no better than Star Trek TOS.
Nah, if it was ST:TOS, it would have been covered in glitter.
The EU was dropped and largely ignored, supposedly for something better.
To be fair, I don't recall Disney ever claiming that the new Canon would be better than the EU. They replaced the EU because it was a mess, and they wanted an empty sandbox to build their own stories in.
The EU was dropped and largely ignored, supposedly for something better.
To be fair, I don't recall Disney ever claiming that the new Canon would be better than the EU. They replaced the EU because it was a mess, and they wanted an empty sandbox to build their own stories in.
Truth. Lucasfilm wanted to make a sequel story without being beholden to existing novel continuity (if we want to get technical they were probably planning to make the movies the way they wanted and someone deeper in Lucasfilm didn't want their respective tie-in novels to be beholden to existing continuity) which meant any EU material covering that period was going to get axed either way. So they made the legends brand and continue to sell the books under that label they still see demand for, rather than implement the George Lucas solution and simply vault them.
It doesn't really make sense to me to argue that 'Disney' is somehow systemically putting out worse work than before the acquisition since the underlying process (and the underlying people) at Lucasfilm haven't really changed. They're still putting out work aimed at all different kinds of target audiences and at all different levels of overall quality, but the highs and lows don't seem any worse than the highs and lows of Legends to me.
Maybe it would be fun to talk about our favourite star wars books in a separate thread?
yeah the reason the EU was a mess wasnt for bad quality, it was because it existed for so long it made no sense anymore.
Its like how Star Trek is inconsistent now. It had had, over 60 years, doezens of writers, several creative visions,and such to the point we dont know if the federation uses money or not!!
The only reason Disney Star Wars isn't comparable yet to the EU in terms of being a mess is lack of content. What exists currently has content that matches the worst of the EU in terms of being absolutely incoherent, Doctor Aphra being the first one that comes to mind. Some of those story arcs are on par with the really bad Lando novels.
Edit: To clarify, most of the EU is not good. The Disney content is just a cash grab.
trexmeyer wrote: The only reason Disney Star Wars isn't comparable yet to the EU in terms of being a mess is lack of content. What exists currently has content that matches the worst of the EU in terms of being absolutely incoherent, Doctor Aphra being the first one that comes to mind. Some of those story arcs are on par with the really bad Lando novels.
I've not read Aphra beyond the occasional shared image of what appears to be a canon version of Creepio, what's so bad about it?
trexmeyer wrote: Edit: To clarify, most of the EU is not good. The Disney content is just a cash grab.
And again: the 'Disney content' is still Lucasfilm content - in some cases literally novels that were written for the existing EU but published after canon/legends rebranding with no edits. My favourite Star Wars book happens to be a more recent canon story, and while we can certainly argue whether it's artistic merit is compromised by its inherently commercial nature - we cannot pretend that hasn't been Star Wars' bread and butter since (*checks notes*) before the first Star Wars movie was ever released.
More importantly, if Doctor Aphra or Mandalorian's approach doesn't appeal to you, what else have you read? and what is it you're looking for?
Also - I don't think Luke's going to turn up this series. But Mark Hamill has made a lot of noise about being finished with the character, and not wanting to be de-aged (though I suspect he'd do further voice work happily)
But he also seems to suggest Sebastian Stan as Luke a LOT. We know that, about now, Luke's going to be thinking of setting up a new Jedi academy for Kylo to butcher in 20 years time. Wouldn't surprised me if Grogu ends up recruited.
Wouldn't surprised me if he survives again, becoming the only being to survive the annihilation of two Jedi academies.
But I think him meeting Luke is a ways down the line.
Was it here that some had the idea that Han and Luke and Chewie and everyone else should keep showing up, but only background shots?
Because that would be an amazing troll.
Mando lands somewhere just as Falcon is taking off. Chewie pushes past him into a bar. Luke and Lando run be in the background with some Storm Troopers following.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Was it here that some had the idea that Han and Luke and Chewie and everyone else should keep showing up, but only background shots?
Because that would be an amazing troll.
Mando lands somewhere just as Falcon is taking off. Chewie pushes past him into a bar. Luke and Lando run be in the background with some Storm Troopers following.
Never mention it, never explain. Just goes on by.
Yeah, that was me. The trick is to treat it subtle. No fancy camera pans or zooms or winks to audience, treat them like every other nobody background character.
Chillreaper wrote: My name is Boba Fett. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
Oh. Ooohh.
I was just thinking that it would be another totally pointless dead character, making a fanservice appointment to meet the protagonist and welcome him to Star Wars street.
For most us, yes, the man who killed our father would be the cause of a lifetime of vengeance... but the Mandalorians are a warrior society. A mercenary warrior society at that. They seem to care about things, but not so much people, and especially not dead people. Look at Din and Fenec. They fought, she almost died, now they're immediately cool.
Ahsoka tries to cut him down, no no let's talk. k.
Heck, Din's trying to get a dude he betrayed to join his squad for the heist.
Trying, or even succeeding at killing someone seems to be viewed as an occupational hazard for Mandalorians. He was way more upset at the New Republic trying to put the law on him.
It WAS war. And Jango's head got separated from his shoulders after trying to kill Windu. Boba can certainly feel vengeful, but righteous...I dunno. Especially for a warrior society as mentioned.
gorgon wrote: It WAS war. And Jango's head got separated from his shoulders after trying to kill Windu. Boba can certainly feel vengeful, but righteous...I dunno. Especially for a warrior society as mentioned.
He did trie to kill Windu when he was teen during the Clone Wars. He obviousl failed, but I can't remember if he decided to move on after that. Familly is very important to Mandalorians and a source of endless drama and civil wars in their society. Bobba might have changed a lot over the years, but he seems to remain a mercenary with his own personnal code (as dubious as this code might be).
As far as Bobba knows Mace Windu is dead. Killed in the clone wars. He doesn't have any reason to think anything else of it and hasn't for like... 30 years.
Alpharius wrote: What did I miss - how is Mace Windu still alive?
He's probably not. There were rumours floating about a while back that they were considering bringing him back, but no details. The fans filled in the fact that falling from a great height and/or having bits cut off are not proven fatal for force users, and given that we didn't actually see him go splat, there's every possibility that he survived. Nothing has actually been confirmed, though.
But unless they bring him back as a very broken man who has turned his back on the jedi way and/or the Force, having him still be alive would seem odd. The more former jedi turn out to be still alive, the more it stretches credibility that they all just sat around on backwoods planets for 20 years waiting for Luke to get old enough to take down Vader.
As of right now in Canon, we know of 3 Jedi that survived the purge. Cal, Ahsoka, Kanan(HE aint alive now though) and Ezra.
Now any random mook Jedi can pick Grogu up and they can just make a new one, but thats not the way this show does stuff. So Im guess Ezra or Cal
Genuine question, because it was part of Star Wars lore for so long, I genuinely can’t remember not knowing it - but nor can I remember where I learned it from.
Specifically, Luke, Obi-Wan and Yoda being the only remaining Jedi.
This was something I “knew” since forever. And it wasn’t until Rebels that I can think it was challenged due to Kanan.
It’s almost certainly, in my case, no better than second, possibly third hand info. And I don’t recall it ever being explicitly stated in the original trilogy?
It was assumed from the OT, due to Yoda and Ben talking about him being the 'last hope'... Aside from, you know, the other one.
Which is a fair assumption. If there are other jedi still out there, surely they wouldn't have to pin all their hopes on the teenager with no training.
The EU introduced other jedi who were hiding in various ways (including a Hutt!) and an assortment of non-jedi force users like the Nightsisters, but so far as the movies were concerned, Luke was the last of the Jedi.
insaniak wrote: It was assumed from the OT, due to Yoda and Ben talking about him being the 'last hope'... Aside from, you know, the other one.
Which is a fair assumption. If there are other jedi still out there, surely they wouldn't have to pin all their hopes on the teenager with no training.
The EU introduced other jedi who were hiding in various ways (including a Hutt!) and an assortment of non-jedi force users like the Nightsisters, but so far as the movies were concerned, Luke was the last of the Jedi.
That line is ambiguous, Luke is our last hope, no there is one other!
They don't specifically say 'Luke is our last Jedi and there are no other Jedi at all because all of them are dead'. In fact it would not make any sense since Yoda refers to Leia as one other and she had no training and had not shown any signs of powers. I'd say their plan was (either) to have Luke redeem Vader figuring only his son could get to him, or that only a Jedi with Skywalker blood was powerful enough to kill him. That's the only way the line makes sense.
However, later in RotJ Yoda says when I'm gone you'll be the last of the Jedi. Now it could be Yoda was wrong, he's been hiding for 20 years and figured he was it. Or he was lying. Or he was pedantic, most of the survivors we've seen on screen were apprentices or left the order, they were not Jedi knights.
Making the jump from cartoons to live action is one thing, but the chances of Cal making the leap from an EA computer game to the tv screen must surely be nearly nil.
Ashoka is not a jedi btw. She quit the jedi. Shes just a force user and does not have anything to do with them anymore. She specifically says that in rebels to Kanan and Esra. She doesnt bother saying it to Dinn because why explain semantics to a person who thinks shes a wizard?
Now in the old EU Quinlan was on Kashyyyk with Yoda and survived Order 66 and just went off to the Outer Rim and had nothing to do with the jedi anymore after that. I believe the story was told in the last issues of Dark Horse "Republic" series.
In the new Canon, there was a novel released called Dark Disciple that was basically a Clone Wars cartoon episode they never got around to making for season 6 of the show that goes over what happened to Asajj Ventress. These events all happened before Order 66 however so I don't know if Quinlan survived Order 66 in the new canon.
The problem with Mace Windu is this: Look at Boba Fett. Now pit him against a Jedi whose, what? 30 years older?. Mace is a badass, but still, he's not Methuselah.
What those two X-Wing pilots need to do is go back Coreward and request the help of Rogue Squadron to fight an Imperial Remnant. They come with their own Force Sensitive ace who could have heard Grogu.
Alpharius wrote: What did I miss - how is Mace Windu still alive?
He's probably not. There were rumours floating about a while back that they were considering bringing him back, but no details. The fans filled in the fact that falling from a great height and/or having bits cut off are not proven fatal for force users, and given that we didn't actually see him go splat, there's every possibility that he survived. Nothing has actually been confirmed, though.
But unless they bring him back as a very broken man who has turned his back on the jedi way and/or the Force, having him still be alive would seem odd. The more former jedi turn out to be still alive, the more it stretches credibility that they all just sat around on backwoods planets for 20 years waiting for Luke to get old enough to take down Vader.
Ah. This makes more sense now as a weird fan theory.
Electrocuting and dismembering someone and then tossing him out a skyscraper always seemed definitive enough for me.
The only context in which Mace Windu surviving his fall isn't a naked cash grab in my eyes, is a Clone Wars era story about him surviving that fall and trying to escape only to go out in a blaze of glory as Clone Troopers gun him down. Make it a character piece about Mace, the Jedi, the fall of the order, and the rise of the Empire. Use the movie to flesh out how common people see the Jedi, complete with a tragic ending where a bionic arm Mace tries to rally the people against Palpatine only to see they hate him, don't care, and do nothing as he and a small band of fellows are taken down in a blaze of bolter fire, with the final scene being a nameless youngling in the crowd escaping.
LordofHats wrote: The only context in which Mace Windu surviving his fall isn't a naked cash grab in my eyes, is a Clone Wars era story about him surviving that fall and trying to escape only to go out in a blaze of glory as Clone Troopers gun him down. Make it a character piece about Mace, the Jedi, the fall of the order, and the rise of the Empire. Use the movie to flesh out how common people see the Jedi, complete with a tragic ending where a bionic arm Mace tries to rally the people against Palpatine only to see they hate him, don't care, and do nothing as he and a small band of fellows are taken down in a blaze of bolter fire, with the final scene being a nameless youngling in the crowd escaping.
I'd watch that as a tragedy.
Nailed it on the head for me. A big part of the Prequel trilogy was to establish the Jedi's arrogance and blindness to their role in allowing the dark side to gain prominence in the Republic. Mace was the poster boy for this issue and despite his own personal prowess, you could see between his own animosity towards Anakin and Ahsokha that he embodied this blind adherence that the Jedi Order could do no wrong. His death was a very real symbol of the Jedi Order's fall when he chose to take matters into his own hands to execute Palpatine.
Lance845 wrote: Ashoka is not a jedi btw. She quit the jedi. Shes just a force user and does not have anything to do with them anymore. She specifically says that in rebels to Kanan and Esra. She doesnt bother saying it to Dinn because why explain semantics to a person who thinks shes a wizard?
The ironic thing is that she's probably more of a true Jedi than the prequel era Jedi. That's why she's such an important character IMO. Like Qui-gon before her, she represents the true Jedi way.
She doesn't identify as a Jedi because the Jedi she remembers had lost their way
Lance845 wrote: Ashoka is not a jedi btw. She quit the jedi. Shes just a force user and does not have anything to do with them anymore. She specifically says that in rebels to Kanan and Esra. She doesnt bother saying it to Dinn because why explain semantics to a person who thinks shes a wizard?
The ironic thing is that she's probably more of a true Jedi than the prequel era Jedi. That's why she's such an important character IMO. Like Qui-gon before her, she represents the true Jedi way.
She doesn't identify as a Jedi because the Jedi she remembers had lost their way
-
Which is all well and good but it doesn't change that she is not one. The Jedi are a religion and an order. She isn't a member of their parish and doesn't answer to their creed. She follows the force as an individual. She is an island unto herself. Just like how not all darkside users are Sith, She just isn't a Jedi.
AegisGrimm wrote: The problem with Mace Windu is this: Look at Boba Fett. Now pit him against a Jedi whose, what? 30 years older?. Mace is a badass, but still, he's not Methuselah.
What those two X-Wing pilots need to do is go back Coreward and request the help of Rogue Squadron to fight an Imperial Remnant. They come with their own Force Sensitive ace who could have heard Grogu.
Do you think maybe they'll introduce Corran Horn to the nuCanon? That would be...interesting, to say the least, although we'll have to find out why he isn't involved in the Sequel Trilogy.
Personally, my bet's on Ezra Bridger being the one who responds. But we won't see him until a (possibly post-credits) scene in the last episode of S2.
Maybe it’s just because this season is overflowing with established characters (and concepts) but I really hope everything from here out is original content.
I think my plan is to watch Clone Wars and Rebels once I finish watching DS9. Is there a proper watch order for those series? Or just watch all of CW then R?
I'd watch clone wars first, then rebels. BUT its important to note that the story arcs in Clone wars (especially in the first few seasons) are NOT at all in chronological order (though this becomes less of an issue as seasons pass. Im sure there is some guide somewhere on the internet that will put the story arcs into order for you if you really want to watch them that way.
princeyg wrote: I'd watch clone wars first, then rebels. BUT its important to note that the story arcs in Clone wars (especially in the first few seasons) are NOT at all in chronological order (though this becomes less of an issue as seasons pass. Im sure there is some guide somewhere on the internet that will put the story arcs into order for you if you really want to watch them that way.
I'm sloooowly making my way through Clone Wars. Only 26 episodes in, but it is tedious so far. My bro-in-law says it gets better and watching it before watching Rebels makes Rebels even better.
Clone Wars is just kind of a slog to watch the whole thing IMO. There's too many episodes that are just "this one background Jedi that didn't get screen time kills a bunch of droids". That said, the arcs that are great are fantastic, but the show is largely self contained enough that they can be watched on their own. I've seen a few guides online. I think that's the way to go.
Manchu wrote: Maybe it’s just because this season is overflowing with established characters (and concepts) but I really hope everything from here out is original content.
As much as I love Rogue Squadron, there's a point to be made for that, too. Maybe conflate a couple of the EU force user ideas into one new character, that can do a bit of fan service to several old storylines at oncewhile still being new.
Manchu wrote: Oh man, I actually liked the Jar Jar episode, I thought it went a long way to making the character at least tolerable.
I feel like one of the weirdest things to happen in the Clone Wars animated series is the redemption of Jar Jar Binks' character. Both the Jar Jar episodes (I'm including the three parter in season 5 as 1 'episode') are pretty good and the character doesn't ruin them. It's not ground breaking, but considering where we started it's pretty damn impressive.
Manchu wrote: Oh man, I actually liked the Jar Jar episode, I thought it went a long way to making the character at least tolerable.
I feel like one of the weirdest things to happen in the Clone Wars animated series is the redemption of Jar Jar Binks' character. Both the Jar Jar episodes (I'm including the three parter in season 5 as 1 'episode') are pretty good and the character doesn't ruin them. It's not ground breaking, but considering where we started it's pretty damn impressive.
Jar Jar's not THAT bad. He's hardly the only obnoxious character in the franchise and mostly suffers from being grossly overused in one movie. He's basically 3PO, but never stops talking and for some reason gets an extended action scene.
An action scene that involves slap stick and prat falls that takes place in the middle of both the duel of fates and a space battle where a kid accidentally blows up a mother ship.
Regardless of WHY Jar Jar gets his bad rap those reasons make it 100% deserved. After all, thats the movie we have.
Yeah, I actually enjoy a lot of the Jar Jar centric arcs in TCW. His showing in the Malevolence arc is a miss, but the Jedi Jar Jar, Gungan General, and the one in the second to last season (I think) where he
Spoiler:
teams up with Mace Windu to deal with Talzin
is pretty fun.
Honestly, the only arcs I kinda switch off for in TCW are the Cad Bane stuff, the Onderon stuff, and the D-Squad arc (D-Squad's only redeeming point being Gregor) - I generally enjoy the rest.
Lance845 wrote: An action scene that involves slap stick and prat falls that takes place in the middle of both the duel of fates and a space battle where a kid accidentally blows up a mother ship.
Regardless of WHY Jar Jar gets his bad rap those reasons make it 100% deserved. After all, thats the movie we have.
No doubt. I'm just saying there's nothing inherently wrong with the character if used appropriately. He just wasn't... used.... appropriately.
Now I'm recalling that 3PO gets an action scene in AotC.... at least it was more undrestated but.... bah, I thought I'd really bleached most of that film.
I'm cool with that. SW as a more long form story telling has always been better then the movies which are real hit or miss.
That being said I wish they would head into this golden age or jump forward 1000 years into the future. Get away from episodes 1-9. That gaks been explored to death.
Not a surprise, Disney+ has been a huge success (70m subscribers, the Netflix CEO claimed he'd be surprised if it.picked up 20m prior to launch.) I also suspect that Mulan did highly satisfactory numbers given prevailing conditions at the time.
A lot of people have been predicting streaming to overtake cinema in Disney's priority list for a while. Apart from Black Widow for some reason.
I think they've abandoned movies altogether and gone full TV.
I think that perhaps you're right... In other threads I've talked about Warners "Starve out Cinemas" conspiracy theory. I think this is part of the same gameplan, but from Disney's point of view.
And I don't understand, the internet told me that Kathleen Kennedy and Disney killed Star Wars.
Oh, and Rangers of the New Republic, again in Mando timeframe, which could be _anything_
I think it probably started life as the Cara Dune spinoff, and may proceed along similar lines just minus Gina Carano/Cara Dune. In the last episode of Mando she
Spoiler:
was referred to by Mando as a Marshal of the New Republic, which is what the badge thing she was given by the X-Wing pilot in the previous episode symbolized. Basically her sheriffs badge).
Jon Favreau is a weird way to say Dave Filoni, but whatever.
And no, they haven't ditched Gina yet, at least not publicly, but we'll see I guess. I struggle to imagine that they would stick with her as much of what she has done to provoke fan outcry is antithetical to all the inclusivity stuff that Lucasfilm and Disney claim to stand for, etc. Arguably, shes been slowly making it worse by doubling down on things and continuing to provoke anger rather than just backing off and finding less incendiary things to tweet about.
That would be an interesting series. Whatever it ends up being, apparently both the Ahsoka and Rangers series are going to cross-over somehow for a climactic finale if I understood the statements they made correctly.
Compel wrote: I think Rangers of the New Republic is going to be following along with the sort of space cops X-Wing pilots.
A pair of space cops whizzing about in their X-wings and stopping at a different planet each week to sort out whatever problems have cropped up there certainly seems like a valid outline for an episodic serial.
Graphite wrote: Have they actually ditched her? I know she's made a fairly large number of people angry
Real people or Twitter people?
I haven't looked at Twitter for a couple of months and suddenly I've become less aware of drama and offence in the world. The only reason that I know anything about some people being angry with her is because I watch too many YouTube videos.
Not watching attention grabbing videos with titles like "Gina Carrano hits back!" means that I really don't have a clue and can continue to enjoy watching the Mandalorian without distractions.
I think that avoiding Twitter has been one of the smartest things that I've done over the past couple of years - just too many negative waves, man...
Juggernauts! Inept Pirates! Character building! Growing menace of Imperial Remnants getting their ducks in a row! Explosions! Superb action scenes! Sonic Bomb Things From Episode 2 Still Rock!
Very nice narrative touch with the TIEs and Troopers coming to the rescue. Now I’ve had time to digest it, it builds in nicely to Mayfeld’s Moment, providing stronger explanation as to why he killed the Officer. In short, Imperial Troops are human. They have bonds of brotherhood, and they care for each other. The officers however are only interested in victory, at any cost, callously sacrificing their troops if they think it’ll make them look good.
Finale next Friday, and I’m pumped.
Plus, though it’ll be 10 or so months until Season 3, we’ll at least have Andor to tide us over.
Compel wrote: I think Rangers of the New Republic is going to be following along with the sort of space cops X-Wing pilots.
A pair of space cops whizzing about in their X-wings and stopping at a different planet each week to sort out whatever problems have cropped up there certainly seems like a valid outline for an episodic serial.
I hope they have cool jet cycles like from the definitive season of the real BSG but with pod race style whomp whomp whiiiisssss engine sound effects.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Graphite wrote: So Disney just announced Obi Wan. With Hayden as Darth.
And The Bad Batch.
And Andor.
And Ashoka, to take place in the same timeframe as Mando.
Jeepsy peeps.
I think they've abandoned movies altogether and gone full TV.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and Rangers of the New Republic, again in Mando timeframe, which could be _anything_
I'm really glad Iger said they were stepping back and not overloading fans with content otherwise we'd have too much.
I imagine Disney are probably thinking they have relatively delineated audiences, with the biggest crossover being Marvel / Star Wars, and even then, it's not entirely guaranteed...
So a 'The Mandalorian' fan probably won't stay subscribed if the next release after the show finishes for the year is, The Return of the Mighty Ducks, but might do, if it's only a couple of weeks until 'Rangers of the New Republic' comes out.
And don’t forget the marketing. That’s where the big money is made after all - and when licensed, relatively risk free.
Grogu - He Is Money.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And don’t forget the marketing. That’s where the big money is made after all - and when licensed, relatively risk free.
gorgon wrote: Hopefully a GONK droid series will spin off the droids show.
Spin off? Sounds more like BB8. Waddle seems more appropriate a term. I could see an odd couple sitcom with gonk and the whack a mole prequel pod repair droids though. Queen Kathleen, hire/call me please! I'm full of ideas and I'm willing to debase myself on twitter too!
Compel wrote: I imagine Disney are probably thinking they have relatively delineated audiences, with the biggest crossover being Marvel / Star Wars, and even then, it's not entirely guaranteed...
So a 'The Mandalorian' fan probably won't stay subscribed if the next release after the show finishes for the year is, The Return of the Mighty Ducks, but might do, if it's only a couple of weeks until 'Rangers of the New Republic' comes out.
I know people are afraid of hitting a CW overload, which is entirely possible. Currently though, we're getting a Star Wars show for 2 months out of the year. I'll take 6 of them just to have 1 thing each week.
I'm a bit so so on what was announced overall. Excited for it but I'll be more excited once I see more. The fear of everything being on Tatooine feels real. Still, largely optimistic.
where he takes his helmet off in front of everyone to get the coordinates he needs. Such a subtle but huge moment. I like this sort of understated character development, where someone does something huge but it's not treated as some huge thing with background music and panning around and gak. I hope this moment comes back in the future in some equally subtle ways.
where he takes his helmet off in front of everyone to get the coordinates he needs. Such a subtle but huge moment. I like this sort of understated character development, where someone does something huge but it's not treated as some huge thing with background music and panning around and gak. I hope this moment comes back in the future in some equally subtle ways.
He’s also now met two other sects of Manddalorians happy to take their kids off.
gorgon wrote: Hopefully a GONK droid series will spin off the droids show.
Spin off? Sounds more like BB8. Waddle seems more appropriate a term. I could see an odd couple sitcom with gonk and the whack a mole prequel pod repair droids though. Queen Kathleen, hire/call me please! I'm full of ideas and I'm willing to debase myself on twitter too!
I picture 35+ minutes of watching the GNK droid do its business. Walking around, pausing for 5-10 minutes at a time to charge something up. Each week an exciting new facility. Oh, some episodes might have battles going on in the background, etc. Or maybe some drama or uncomfortable situations. But the focus and foreground stays on the GNK doing its thing...just being awesome.
Now that's a Star Wars project that David Lynch might actually take, and it'd be wonderful(ly strange/uncomfortable/amazing).
so we're done ripping off westerns and samurai films, and now we've moved on to ripping off Sorcerer
Seriously though, another great episode. this season has been overall much better than the first IMO, and I loved the first. I just hope all the new shows they have announced are of a similar quality...
I'm curious how Kenobi will be framed. Will it be focused on his time on Tatooine, or will it be about something the 20 years between RotS and ANH that took him off into the stars? Vader has been cast for the series I heard, so I'm wondering what the actual premise is supposed to be.
It's notable that I don't think anything in ANH forbids Kenobi and Vader crossing paths in that time period. I don't think. They could clash in the series and be aware of each other without falling into contradictions.
I *guess* something needs to happen to convince the Empire that Kenobi might as well be dead rather than an ongoing threat to The Empire, even if Vader doesn't quite believe it.
I liked it! She’s a solid director (even managed the best/least worst in the turd fest that is the DCEU), and she’s clearly got a passion for dogfighting films.
The dead dad bit but just seemed clumsy, and treading carefully here as no disrespect intended but I'm not sure we needed to know that, but maybe that's just the culture gap of the pond and military family ways
Turnip Jedi wrote: The dead dad bit but just seemed clumsy, and treading carefully here as no disrespect intended but I'm not sure we needed to know that, but maybe that's just the culture gap of the pond and military family ways
It isn't, as a US military brat myself, it is really weird.
Its the 'modernism' culture gap, partly encouraged by myspace, facebook, twitter and all other social media, where you're expecting and encouraged to share everything, especially the personal stuff. Started running into this in person a few years back in Boston. Went out to drinks with a group (not military affiliated) after meeting them the first time, and people just started talking about their diseases and losses and I had to stop them and say 'I barely know your names, I don't need to know this stuff about you.' They stopped, but were awkward about it. After a couple more outings it was clear it wasn't really going to stop long term and it wasn't the social circle for me.
Think Mayfield is a really interesting character. There have been a lot of characters over the years who see what the Empire does and decide they have to leave it and join the Rebellion to fight the good fight.
Interesting to see someone grow the hate the Empire, but not necessarily all the people in it. Who gets out somewhat on their own terms, but has no particular interest in bringing the Empire down. Noticed on a second watch that he shoots a LOT of officers on the way out, but not so many troopers.
Yeah. I didn't think that character would be getting that much depth. It is really good.
It also elaborates on his willingness to kill New Republic officers. Not because he necessarily hates the new republic, but at this point he thinks military officers are all scum bags that throw their people into meat grinders gladly.
gorgon wrote: Hopefully a GONK droid series will spin off the droids show.
Spin off? Sounds more like BB8. Waddle seems more appropriate a term. I could see an odd couple sitcom with gonk and the whack a mole prequel pod repair droids though. Queen Kathleen, hire/call me please! I'm full of ideas and I'm willing to debase myself on twitter too!
I picture 35+ minutes of watching the GNK droid do its business. Walking around, pausing for 5-10 minutes at a time to charge something up. Each week an exciting new facility. Oh, some episodes might have battles going on in the background, etc. Or maybe some drama or uncomfortable situations. But the focus and foreground stays on the GNK doing its thing...just being awesome.
Now that's a Star Wars project that David Lynch might actually take, and it'd be wonderful(ly strange/uncomfortable/amazing).
I would absolutely love that show. Have 3 or 4 major storylines that only occur out of focus in the background while the main focus is a bitter old man and his GONK wandering the countryside recharging stuff ad flirting with the widow who owns the cantina.
Well, I think this is probably the best written ep so far (at least insofar as characterization goes) and I have to give them kudos for making me actually like Bill Burr even though im not a fan of his comedy much (very reminiscent of what Dr Who managed to pull with Catherine Tate funnily enough).
Pedro Pascal really does a lot with just a few looks too.
It was very smart to portray Din as even more laconic once the helmet came off. I mean, there are obvious in-setting reasons for it. But as a matter of production, I think if Pascal had a bunch of lines it would just be too overwhelming for the audience.
LordofHats wrote: I'm curious how Kenobi will be framed. Will it be focused on his time on Tatooine, or will it be about something the 20 years between RotS and ANH that took him off into the stars? Vader has been cast for the series I heard, so I'm wondering what the actual premise is supposed to be.
It's notable that I don't think anything in ANH forbids Kenobi and Vader crossing paths in that time period. I don't think. They could clash in the series and be aware of each other without falling into contradictions.
With it being Hayden, i expect it to be either Flashbacks or Visions.
He lives alone, in the desert, probably doesnt go into town much.
LordofHats wrote: I'm curious how Kenobi will be framed. Will it be focused on his time on Tatooine, or will it be about something the 20 years between RotS and ANH that took him off into the stars? Vader has been cast for the series I heard, so I'm wondering what the actual premise is supposed to be.
It's notable that I don't think anything in ANH forbids Kenobi and Vader crossing paths in that time period. I don't think. They could clash in the series and be aware of each other without falling into contradictions.
With it being Hayden, i expect it to be either Flashbacks or Visions.
He lives alone, in the desert, probably doesnt go into town much.
Yeah I really only see one or two storylines for Kenobi. Someone comes looking for Luke and Ben kills him, or Ben teaches Luke something but in a vague enough way that it doesn't contradict Star Wars. I mean is there anything else that can be done? Side quests? Saving some farmers from Hutt gangsters or whatever? Maybe if the time line of the show is sweeping enough, covering 20 years in a season it could work.
Well, Owen refers to him as "That wizard's just a crazy old man" - now, Owen knows that there's a LOT more to it than that, but that sounds like the way most people around Anchorhead know him. He's an odd old guy, who goes around doing things that may or may not be magic.
Hell, make him the guy who talks Biggs into joining the Rebellion, and leave Luke alone.
It's no leap at all to predict a 'get the band together to rescue the kid' so to flesh it out a little, I'll go with a Tennent/Smith style Doctor Who finale were every (surviving) ally we've ever seen is involved in the mission.. and it seems not to go to plan and end with an end of series cliffhanger.
Arc Hammer, Dark Troopers and the Imperial Remnant need a force user like Grogu to try and make Jedi just like they did in Jedi Outcast. Except by using clones and pulling Midichlorians from Grogu to do it as opposed to putting force energy into crystals, also like in Jedi Outcast.
Mando has Slave-1 and a handful of friends in his corner.
Moff Gideon has a Light Cruiser, Death Troopers, Dark Troopers and Storm Troopers.
Because a handful of scrappy heroes never succeeds against the massive Evil Empire.
There is always the tried and true steal a shuttle and sneak aboard plan. Or always the chance to bring in some support from the Core. If the new republic had solid intel on an imperial moff with a cruiser, they might send some back up.
I think the question is what the plans are for next season, and what gets tied up neat, and what gets clifhangered. With all the stuff Disney is spinning up, another question is what they want to lay plot hooks/spin offs for. Although I’m not sure how much of that is in Mando’s time frame.
I don’t think they end it without Mando saving Baby Yoda. I’m betting they get in, slaughter a few platoons worth of storm troopers. Dark troopers show up, they’re much harder to handle. Everyone else ties them up while Mando gets thru solo. Epic duel with the Moff. If Mando for some reason brings the Beskar Spear along, he’ll kill the Moff. If he doesn’t, he’ll “win” by somehow forcing Moff to retreat or himself getting past and away from him, but will have now seen the Dark Saber and use that knowledge to know to bring the spear next time. Baby Yoda is rescued! Meet back up with the rest who have by now finished off all the Dark Troopers. Someone died though. Don’t worry, it was a suitably heroic death. Escape and celebrate. Post credits. If the Moff died, queue the dramatic reveal of the even bigger badder guy (Thrawn? Possibly, or he’ll be saved for Ahsoka’s series.). If Moff lived, queue dramatic reveal of the even bigger badder plan that the Dark Troopers were merely just a by product or prototype for, and they of course already got what they needed from Baby Yoda to complete it.
Carson talked to Cara about how “something big is going on out here” that the Republic higher ups cannot quite see (he is referring to Moff Gideon’s scheme, I believe) so it seems to me pretty clear that the Republic will be intervening at some point, especially considering the Republic now considers the Rim to be its territory.
I can see them rescuing Grogu but Gideon having already gotten what he needed out of him. I feel like they're building towards Gideon giving himself Force powers or already having them. I can't see the Dark Saber and Vader inspired costume skipping the chance of him being a former inquisitor or something before they're done with him.
I mean if you name drop Thrawn and both "Rangers of the Republic" and "Ashoka" are, at some point, going to link with the Mandalorian I imagine a scene with Thrawn is a possibility as the last shot of the season.
I'm not sure but what we'll get an epic cliffhanger to rival even the famous Star Trek TNG: Best of Both Worlds Part 1 ending: "Mr. Worf, fire." TO BE CONTINUED... And then we have to wait until October 2021 for the conclusion.
ZergSmasher wrote: I'm not sure but what we'll get an epic cliffhanger to rival even the famous Star Trek TNG: Best of Both Worlds Part 1 ending: "Mr. Worf, fire." TO BE CONTINUED... And then we have to wait until October 2021 for the conclusion.
That’s what I’m thinking too. A single episode, even at a likely extended run time just doesn’t strike me as enough to cover it all off.
In other news, Bo-Katan has finally got her own action figure.
That’s right, Constable Not-Appearing-In-This-Film got a figure before a character that played solid roles in both Clone Wars and Rebels.
Commodus Leitdorf wrote: I mean if you name drop Thrawn and both "Rangers of the Republic" and "Ashoka" are, at some point, going to link with the Mandalorian I imagine a scene with Thrawn is a possibility as the last shot of the season.
I very much doubt Thrawn will appear in the Mandalorian. He was name-dropped purely as part of introducing the Ahsoka spin-off.
I expect this last episode will be Din and his band of merry sidekicks rescuing Grogu, possibly killing Gideon and recovering the Darksaber, but then all being trapped by an overwhelming Dark Trooper force before a New Republic task force and/or the mystery Jedi Grogu contacted arrive at the last minute to kick things up a notch, with the battle concluding next season.
Hoping they don't take the opportunity to kill off Fett so Din can take Slave 1, but it wouldn't surprise me.
ZergSmasher wrote: I'm not sure but what we'll get an epic cliffhanger to rival even the famous Star Trek TNG: Best of Both Worlds Part 1 ending: "Mr. Worf, fire." TO BE CONTINUED... And then we have to wait until October 2021 for the conclusion.
You'll be disappointed, they've announced the S3 premiere is Christmas Day next year.
Holy hell. That's huge! Is it mentioned as like going on or already happened or soon to come?
Spoiler block incoming. Glad to hear these threads of EU are all coming together! I never expected to hear this namedropped though...
Spoiler:
Operation Cinder is what drives Iden Versio and Del Meeko from the Empire. The Empire flatout is burning down infrastructure and resources on planets that they cannot realistically keep the Republic/Rebellion from. They kill officials suspected of disloyalty, kill troops that express "defeatist attitudes", and generally just purge the downer debbies from their ranks.
That whole angle from Battlefront II was a big reason I never really got super frustrated with the sequel trilogy. It made it clear that they purged a big portion of the officer/troop corps they considered 'weak' and went all in on fanatics.
Bill Burr's character showed up in the first season as an ex imperial sniper part of a crew that was breaking into a new republic prisoner transport to break out some prisoners. He was all about killing the few republic officers on the ship mostly manned by droids.
Spoiler:
He showed up in this latest episode where Mando and others used him to break into a imperial facility. They get caught up under cover sitting at a table with an imperial officer and Burr's character reveals that he was part of a unit that basically got annihilated as part of Cinder. The officer at the table is all about that gak and Burr goes on a killing spree taking out a ton of officers and then blowing up the base. Apparently his beef isn't really with the rebellion. It's with military command that just sends people to die. Cinder traumatized the feth out of him.
Mando and his ragtag band overcome many obstacles to rescue Grogu only with 1:35 left in the episode for a First Order Star Destroyer to arrive and everyone poop their pants.
To Be Continued...
Why FO rather than Thrawn? Thrawn's story is in the Ashoka series and I can totally see Mando trying to win over the fans with a G8 H8 for the sequel trilogy by fleshing out the FO.
Alternate twist. They overcome many obstacles to reach Grogu blow open the cell door and...
A smiling and giggling Grogu starts force choking them.
Mando and his ragtag band overcome many obstacles to rescue Grogu only with 1:35 left in the episode for a First Order Star Destroyer to arrive and everyone poop their pants.
To Be Continued...
Why FO rather than Thrawn? Thrawn's story is in the Ashoka series and I can totally see Mando trying to win over the fans with a G8 H8 for the sequel trilogy by fleshing out the FO.
Alternate twist. They overcome many obstacles to reach Grogu blow open the cell door and...
A smiling and giggling Grogu starts force choking them.
first order isn't around dude. it's only 5 years after endor.
personally I think they'll find Grogu, fight the moff, the moff'll escape. and the Mandalorian will realize that the moff will ALWAYS be a threat. season 3 will be focused on hunting down the moff and putting an end to the threat. with season 3 ending with a massive set battle at Mandalore.
But with one episode to go, even if it turns out to be double length (I’ve not seen a run time, but admittedly haven’t looked terribly hard) there’s almost certainly going to be a cliff hanger.
My main concern is what feels like deliberate misdirection as to the size of Gideon’s forces. I don’t for a second believe he’s just got that one Light Cruiser. For a start, we know his forces had at least one Gozanti. And I can’t see him spending his troops as we’ve seen so far without further reserves, or some way to replenish losses of men and materiel.
And I reckon that’ll be the Big Reveal. I mean, in the Outer Rim, you don’t need a huge fleet to be scary. It just needs to be big enough to outnumber whatever Pirates etc have scraped together.
What might that compromise? I dunno. I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if there’s at least one ISD - though a SSD would be stretching credulity. And I’ve certainly got high hopes the Raider will be seen fully rendered, as it’d a pretty sleek design - and a ship even Slave 1 might struggle with, given its geared toward anti-fighter/freighter screening.
Wondering if Din will end up with a new ship?
Also also.....surely Din must be starting to run short of cash by now? He’s hardly done much Bounty Hunt & Gather since he took custodianship of Grogu!
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also also.....surely Din must be starting to run short of cash by now? He’s hardly done much Bounty Hunt & Gather since he took custodianship of Grogu!
I'm guessing his wallet was on the Razor Crest too...
Put me down for the most epickest of cliffhangers as well.
I don't think Gideon is going to die in this one because he's barely done anything but look sinister and try and get his world dominating scheme off the ground. It's just not time yet for a heroic save. But it is time to fully reveal just how big a threat he really is. And for that Gideon needs to succeed. I don't think that would work if he's seen fail again. Plus, he's set up as Bo Katan's archenemy and unless she got intel on his location off screen, she's not going to swoop in to save Din's behind. She might make an appearance but only for Din to learn they have a common enemy that they can team up against in the future. He might even give her his spear eventually.
I'm inclined to think we won't even see the rescue of Grogu. He's only just been kidnapped and so far the rescue attempt has worked flawlessly. It's not just time for something to go horribly wrong for the protagonists in order to underline the threat posed by Gideon, but I got the impression that the Imperials wanted Grogu alive because they would prefer an ongoing source of Force juice to harvest and getting the little blighter dead was only ever the consolation prize. Which suggests that whatever plan they have takes a little more time than passed between the abduction and the upcoming rescue attempt. To me the show seems set up to escalate from a personal matter for one dude in a shiny suit to galactic levels of interest, and for that Gideon needs to be a credible threat that, as per the only source of New Republic dealings we've had so far, he just isn't at this time. I don't think Gideon can fail in his endeavor yet or, so to speak, the show is over before it even started.
Therefore I think Din is going to go in with as small and unnoteworthy a crew as he can gather. No Bo Katan, no Ahsoka, just him and his buddies (and Boba) getting in over their heads without realizing it, pulling off a spectacular rescue against impossible odds only to fail at the last minute and barely making it out alive without the little green guy, possibly saved by Bo Katan for the aforementioned future team-up. Gideon gets to look smug in his victory shot and the episode ends with a little glimmer of hope when a despondent Din is approached by the mystery force user Grogu contacted.
Gideon is already a credible threat. He’s already had some major successes. The end of the last episode shows the moment of the tide finally turning against him, with Din threatening him with his own words.
I don’t think Gideon is Bo Katan’s arch enemy, Her enemy is anyone who stands in the way of her goal of world domination — which might come to include Din, I think Bo Katan herself is already being set up as a villain rather than a hero.
MarkNorfolk wrote: I guess it wouldn't be Star Wars without the second installment leaving the bad guys with the upper hand, or seeming to...
There's that. Rebels did it, too, and that was a Filoni show as well.
Manchu wrote: Gideon is already a credible threat. He’s already had some major successes. The end of the last episode shows the moment of the tide finally turning against him, with Din threatening him with his own words.
I don’t think Gideon is Bo Katan’s arch enemy, Her enemy is anyone who stands in the way of her goal of world domination — which might come to include Din, I think Bo Katan herself is already being set up as a villain rather than a hero.
But a credible threat to whom? We see him succeed in abducting a child and shooting up an Outer Rim backwater mostly populated by his own guys. His biggest success is taking out a covert of Mandalorians. And that happens off screen.
Everything else is only hints and the audience's meta knowledge:
- He's doing some Force research on Baby Yoda, the kid whose name we didn't learn until halfway through the second season and that we literally associate with the wisest and most powerful Jedi we know. But we haven't actually seen anything come of it.
- He has Dark Troopers that haven't been a thing for over 20 years in real life and that we don't have the slightest clue how they work in modern Star Wars. We assume they're awesome both because we remember the old ones and the way they are introduced and handled in the show, but we haven't actually seen them do anything worthwhile. Their single deployment so far could have just as easily been handled by jetpack troopers.
- He has been revealed to be an ISB agent, which by itself isn't anything spectacular, who oversaw the purge of Mandalore. We can speculate how that makes him an effective field commander and strategist, but we don't know what troops he had at his disposal, if he fought a unified or splintered Mandalore, if he had any Mandalorians on his side or anything else that would detail how he succeeded. All of his success is off screen and in the past, with very little detail. We can more easily speculate about the state of Mandalore and the purge from Rebels in which Gideon didn't feature than we do from the show in which he is actually in.
- He carries the Darksaber as a status symbol. We know more about the Darksaber than we do about Gideon and him holding it works more through suggestion than anything else. Did he win it legitimately, in the Mandalorian way? Probably not, since the last wielder is still alive. Does he know how to use it? Does it bestow any claim to power on him as was traditionally the case with the saber? We have not been shown.
- He has (or had) at least two space ships and plenty of smaller craft as well as an endless supply of Stormtroopers and he acts as if he can lose any of these in pursuit of this goals without setting him back. Except for the suggestion that there's plenty more where all that came from, because every episode that features his forces actually comes with plenty more that is used in the exact same way, all we ever see him succeed him in is losing troops and materiel.
- He has the funds and the good sense to clandestinely operate in order to keep the New Republic from taking an interest in his operations. That is, until he comes out and reveals himself. Bo Katan is after him as well. So it's not like he's even halfway as capable as Palpi orchestrating the rise of the Emperor.Discounting the protagonist of the Mandalorian who isn't relevant in the grand scheme of things (yet), we have a significant faction leader of Mandalore on Gideon's trail and some space cops investigating his activities in the name of the New Republic. We don't know how the latter will turn out yet, but so far there's no hint suggesting he is anymore likely to stay hidden than that he is revealed to the foremost galactic power.
We have plenty of hints and there is solid groundwork for setting Gideon up as some masterful bad guy that is up to something monstrous, but precious little of it is actually shown. In the context of a cinematic history that actually showed us clone and droid factories cranking out a gigantic war machine, Death Stars in action, a manipulative Sith Lord that managed to trick the order of the Jedi to go down the road of self-destruction, Thrawn setting up the fledgling Rebellion for extermination in one fell swoop and succeeding to a large degree, and a fair few other things beside that, the Mandalorian in my opinion simply hasn't shown Gideon do anything noteworthy yet. It's all set up to happen, but hasn't yet, which is why I don't believe they'll bump him off for a quick and cheap happy season ending. It's too early with too little exposition.
As for Bo Katan, I don't quite think you're doing her justice by putting her in a hero or villain category. Mandalorians in Clone Wars and Rebels have always strongly stood with their factions' ideals and fought anyone, including other Mandalorians, that didn't see things their way. In the context of larger conflicts that had clearer hero and villain setups that consistently put them at odds with both heroes and villains at different times because they fought their own fight and allied with whomever happened to further their cause at the time, with not a moment's hesitation to drop out of an alliance if it didn't develop in the right direction.
Agreed on the idea that she will pursue the unification of what's left of Mandalore under her rule at the expense of anything else, but I think given Mandalorian history it's safe to claim that this is fully focused around the Darksaber and the one that holds it, which right now is Gideon. The Darksaber is her claim to power and possession of it is the only thing that matters to Bo Katan. But I don't think this will be framed as villainy in a show whose political focus is the New Republic and the Empire, and their respective shortcomings. An independent Mandalore, I should think, would be presented more as a political fact rather than a point of contention, and given the protagonist is Mandalorian himself who was raised a traditionalist but has now shown to be willing to compromise to an extent, I have a hard time believing that a similarly if not quite as devoted traditionalist Bo Katan would be particularly upsetting to Din if she became the rightful ruler of Mandalore.
Gideon has been established as a credible threat to the protagonists of the show. Your post is an excellent analysis of how/why.
Is he a threat to the New Republic? Carson seems to think so (or rather, Carson correctly suspects that some Imperial warlord is behind all the trouble in the Rim) but what he says to Cara indicates his superiors aren’t listening to him. Yet.
I think, let’s say, at least a couple of X-Wings will show up to help Din & Co. in the season finale.
But this show is not about the conflict between government factions; it’s about individual characters. In this context, Gideon is a clear threat — moreso than the Empire generally. And that’s the same context in which Bo Katan could become a villain, or (more specifically) an antagonist for Din, in S3. She gets a real crazy look in her eyes when she starts monologuing to our increasingly skeptical main character about her dreams of world domination.
I have a somewhat different outlook because I don't expect (and never did) the show to remain Din and Grogu's Adventures Across the Galaxy. I always expected to get considerable exposition of the political landscape after the fall of the Empire because previous Filoni shows did a good job of fleshing out the setting beyond the main characters and wouldn't expect the Mandalorian to let the opportunity pass to do some wide ranging world building.
As such my perspective revolves around the grand scheme of things.
Yes, that is certainly something that, as a lifelong SW fan, I am also VERY interested in (see for example my comments in the Andor and Rogue Squadron threads). That said, I don’t think The Mandalorian is the right venue for high-level political stories. It’s appeal comes from being on the literal fringe of the big show.
I have a somewhat different outlook because I don't expect (and never did) the show to remain Din and Grogu's Adventures Across the Galaxy. I always expected to get considerable exposition of the political landscape after the fall of the Empire because previous Filoni shows did a good job of fleshing out the setting beyond the main characters and wouldn't expect the Mandalorian to let the opportunity pass to do some wide ranging world building.
As such my perspective revolves around the grand scheme of things.
We’re definitely seeing the familiar, and for me welcome, Filoni formula (filonula?) in play.
First, he gives us a season largely focussed on our protagonists. A chance to get to know them, their lives and their motivations. Whilst this is done to the back drop of a familiar galaxy, it’s kept pretty small scale.
Season 2 is when he starts to show us how they, their lives and their actions fold into the Grander Scheme of things. At this point we get guest stars, Easter eggs and call backs etc.
Season 3 is when our protagonists start to play a more important (but not necessarily critical) part of the wider mythos. This is when the stakes are raised, lowered, raised and lowered. They face greater adversity, and typically get decent development.
I reckon Season 2 isn’t going to end terribly well for The Good Guys. Instead, I’m expecting a curtain pull (not a rug pull) showing Gideon to be a far graver threat than previously believed.
Now, with that in mind? I’m not ruling out a “skin of their teeth” successful rescue of Grogu by the episodes end. But I fully expect them to discover that Gideon has really quite significant forces - either under him, or behind him (either would suit me, to be honest). This would set up season 3 to be a bit more plot intensive, as Din and Co start rallying forces to counter Gideon, and preserve what little peace they found following the fall of the Empire.
Manchu wrote: Yes, that is certainly something that, as a lifelong SW fan, I am also VERY interested in (see for example my comments in the Andor and Rogue Squadron threads). That said, I don’t think The Mandalorian is the right venue for high-level political stories. It’s appeal comes from being on the literal fringe of the big show.
It depends, I guess. I really don't know how Lucasfilm goes about their planning, so I may be completely off, but had the host of shows that just got announced happened two years ago I'd gladly agree with you. Then the Mandalorian could be its own small thing with a bounty hunter turned foster parent making a life in the Outer Rim and evading the bad organization he stole the child from with a final confrontation coming up towards the end to ensure the child has a safe future after it turns out evasion alone will not do. Turns out, that's how season 1 went.
However, if these other shows weren't on the radar and planning was that the Mandalorian was all we're going to get, then it stands to reason the Mandalorian was seen as an opportunity to give us a comprehensive view of the post Empire period even if it needs to drag those Outer Rim nobodies onto the galactic political stage.
I suspect the latter to be the case and the show specifically to be written to include all that high level stuff from the start for lack of a different place to explore it, but like I said, I have no clue as to the workings of Lucasfilm and if this is actually correct.
Manchu wrote: I hope it is wrong because even more fighting hapless stormtrooper mooks is gonna be even more boring.
I think one of the few unfortunate aspects of the Mandalorian is the continued underperformance of Stormtroopers. I would have preferred it if an attempt had been made to give them a little bit of competence and let them have their moments even against characters wearing shirts that read "this is what plot armor looks like, baby". I guess the Mandalorian is better than any other Star Wars movie or show in that regard because Mandalorian armor is actually functional in a setting in which the only armor that works is plot armor and we therefore see a Stormtrooper or two hit something, but still. It's somewhat lacking in cohesion.
I loved the Stormtrooper rescue scene from the last episode and what do you know, those Stormtroopers actually know how to hit something if the scene is bad guys against other bad guys. But you are left to wonder how those crack shots missed every other time ever. That could have been done better throughout the show.
Manchu wrote: To the extent we get “Filoni’d” with this show, I hope S3 shifts to the political question of Mandalore and the Imperials fade as main antagonists.
Getting a look at Mandalore's fate in a show called the Mandalorian would certainly be good.
Kanluwen wrote: Holy hell. That's huge! Is it mentioned as like going on or already happened or soon to come?
Spoiler block incoming. Glad to hear these threads of EU are all coming together! I never expected to hear this namedropped though...
Spoiler:
Operation Cinder is what drives Iden Versio and Del Meeko from the Empire. The Empire flatout is burning down infrastructure and resources on planets that they cannot realistically keep the Republic/Rebellion from. They kill officials suspected of disloyalty, kill troops that express "defeatist attitudes", and generally just purge the downer debbies from their ranks.
That whole angle from Battlefront II was a big reason I never really got super frustrated with the sequel trilogy. It made it clear that they purged a big portion of the officer/troop corps they considered 'weak' and went all in on fanatics.
I'll be waiting to hear about the finale now.
I think they owe Alexander Freed a nod for this. Operation Cinder was formally introduced to audiences in Aftermath but it's always reeked of being a boardroom level directive meant to excuse Lucasfilm from having to populate the timeline with 30 years worth of Imperial Remnant mop-up stories: "The Empire starts burning down its own stuff, anyone halfway decent defects and anyone who doesn't is too busy burning down their own stuff to put up a fight, good guys win." but alphabet squadron goes in so hard to explore the trauma it causes on both sides that the moment Bill says the words I knew exactly how that conversation was going to go. Ironically Operation Cinder may end up being this raging fire that casts a shadow over the entire post-Endor period.
100% agreed on the poor performance of the Stormtroopers in the show so far. I would have preferred that they had less of them and that they died more competently than continue the human wave tactics they employed back when the Empire was at their peak considering they definitely have less manpower now given the fall of the Empire. It's gotten to the point that me and my friend sort of mentally tap out when there's a Stormtrooper fight scene, since there's no tension or risk involved. I will forever be bothered by Stormtroopers running up to the main cast to get disarmed when they could stay at a distance and just keep shooting behind cover.
Like I get that they're the redshirts of SW, but if you're scaling down the show to a more local/personal level compared to the galactic focus of the trilogies, you should make stormtroopers a little bit more threatening.
Manchu wrote: MDG, you make a solid and logical argument for your prediction.
I hope it is wrong because even more fighting hapless stormtrooper mooks is gonna be even more boring.
To the extent we get “Filoni’d” with this show, I hope S3 shifts to the political question of Mandalore and the Imperials fade as main antagonists.
Particularly now that he's had his helmet off in public, I'm expecting at least a part of series three to cover Din (possibly teamed with Bo-Katan) vs the Deathwatch.
Geifer wrote: ...I guess the Mandalorian is better than any other Star Wars movie or show in that regard because Mandalorian armor is actually functional ...
Now that they've shown us just how resilient beskar is, I really want to know what caused that dent in Boba's helmet...
It might also explain why I can’t quite see how they’re going to wrap up this season with just one episode left.
It’s also a crowd pleaser - and would require a Disney+ account...when the family are around.
What’s that Aunty Sue? When I’m done can your younger kids watch Disney+? Of course! Sure Uncle Bob, Cousin Jeremiah and Luanne, Cousin David’s girlfriend, all your kids can watch it.
Isn’t it nice when they can all sit down and watch something in relative quiet during the general chaos of a family Christmas!
Mmm? Oh it’s all no more than PG rated, it is Disney after all. Yeah, for its price it’s pretty solid value.
And from there the new subscribers are derived......and then they tell their friends, and they tell their friends. And even if they’re already subscribed themselves, the watching is kicking off on Disney+, and is likely to stay there for the rest of the day.
I was like nahhhh, they just playing, green light sabre, one gloved hand, black clothing and robe... It's not him.... Then when he crushed the dark trooper it was a little, what, serious.....
It was a fitting end, however I am a little disappointed it was Luke though still, it's such an obvious pick
Boba getting his empire at the end was also amazing
I was like nahhhh, they just playing, green light sabre, one gloved hand, black clothing and robe... It's not him.... Then when he crushed the dark trooper it was a little, what, serious.....
It was a fitting end, however I am a little disappointed it was Luke though still, it's such an obvious pick
I’d agree with that. Though....
Spoiler:
I feel they were just tease enough that on his approach, I was all “is it he, isn’t he? It could, but maybe they’re just toying with me”.
Yeah totally expected the fake out - single x wing, ROTJ robes single black glove green saber then switch out but no there’s Luke! Credits confirm it’s a deaged Mark Hamil I thought it looked a bit uncanny valley alright.
Still the small matter of the Dark Saber to be resolved in Season 3. Din is now technically the leader of Mandalore and Bo ain’t happy
I also enjoyed that the dark troopers were indeed badass, and completely OP for your regular folk but as easy to deal with as B-2 battle droids for a jedi.
One thing I did notice though, was the lack of male mandalorian... It's as if they purposely intended the assault team to be all female (not that I have a problem with that personally) but it was because of one of two reasons... Kathleen Kennedy, in which case, prepare for angry misogynists doing reaction video's on youtube, or it was a subtle two fingers to those same misogynists by Favrou... Which is hilarious and I highly approve of.
However, if it comes out it was to do with KK, then someone at disney needs to bite the bullet at disney/lucas and really get her out, it's just awful PR for her to be involved in any creative aspect at this point
Yeah totally expected the fake out - single x wing, ROTJ robes single black glove green saber then switch out but no there’s Luke! Credits confirm it’s a deaged Mark Hamil I thought it looked a bit uncanny valley alright.
Still the small matter of the Dark Saber to be resolved in Season 3. Din is now technically the leader of Mandalore and Bo ain’t happy
Dark Sabre related
Spoiler:
She already accepted the dark sabre without combat from Wren before though
Someone on a different forum posted this, but it's almost blow-for-blow my thought process during that scene:
Spoiler:
"...One X-wing? Is that...no, couldn't be. There's no way they'd have him appear outside of a main movie, right? They called in that recurring pilot character. Yeah, that's it"
"Okay, it's someone with a lightsaber, but it can't be him. Maybe Ahsoka got an X-wing somehow?"
"Wait, that's a green lightsaber - and he's clearly a human. Can't be Ahsoka. So that means...no, it must be Ezra. Yeah, that's definitely it."
"...HE'S WEARING A BLACK GLOVE ON ONE HAND. DON'T YOU TEASE ME LIKE SHOW. DON'T YOU DARE!"
"DSASFHGTDSGRGJTYUFGND!"
Yeah, so, I did not see that coming at all. Overall a brutal episode with tons of action, and wild surprises.
And then there's...
Spoiler:
Boba Fett - King of Tatooine!
Not sure how that'll turn out, but it was nice to find out how a certain someone ended up, however brief that was.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: ... but it was because of one of two reasons... Kathleen Kennedy, in which case, prepare for angry misogynists doing reaction video's on youtube, or it was a subtle two fingers to those same misogynists by Favrou... Which is hilarious and I highly approve of.
Yeah totally expected the fake out - single x wing, ROTJ robes single black glove green saber then switch out but no there’s Luke! Credits confirm it’s a deaged Mark Hamil I thought it looked a bit uncanny valley alright.
Still the small matter of the Dark Saber to be resolved in Season 3. Din is now technically the leader of Mandalore and Bo ain’t happy
My thinks on the second point.
Spoiler:
This is where we see deep Mando Lore coming into it, I reckon.
From the get go, Din has shown zero interest in holding on to the Dark Saber, let alone leading Mandalore. We instead see him freely offer it to Bo-Katan.
I reckon The Armourer (clearly a veteran Mandalorian, and lore keeper) might be the right port of call, see if there’s precedence for non-lethal combat.
Because right now, Bo-Katan has no reason to plot against Din. He’s in her way, but not by choice nor design.
Yeah totally expected the fake out - single x wing, ROTJ robes single black glove green saber then switch out but no there’s Luke! Credits confirm it’s a deaged Mark Hamil I thought it looked a bit uncanny valley alright.
Still the small matter of the Dark Saber to be resolved in Season 3. Din is now technically the leader of Mandalore and Bo ain’t happy
My thinks on the second point.
Spoiler:
This is where we see deep Mando Lore coming into it, I reckon.
From the get go, Din has shown zero interest in holding on to the Dark Saber, let alone leading Mandalore. We instead see him freely offer it to Bo-Katan.
I reckon The Armourer (clearly a veteran Mandalorian, and lore keeper) might be the right port of call, see if there’s precedence for non-lethal combat.
Because right now, Bo-Katan has no reason to plot against Din. He’s in her way, but not by choice nor design.
I said this above but I'll repeat...
Spoiler:
She received it directly from Wren in Rebels without combat though, so there is a canon precedence for it
That was just so damn good! The whole way through was an impressive feat of an episode.
Spoiler:
Well, I did say a few pages back that Din could get the Darksaber, and now we just have to see whether or not he is someone who will still be up for handing it over to Bo Katan in the next season.
Cool we now know that the Dark Troopers are phase 3, but they got ripped apart like any other battle droid by a Jedi.
Bib Fortuna's brief appearance was spoiled for me in the credits, but that's my fault for making that mistake.
Is the Book of Boba going to be the name for season 3 or something new entirely?
Yup, didn't expect them to actually *win* so hard in the end, I was definitely expecting a "they get the kid back, but something goes horribly wrong, and Gideon has a much more powerful force going on", but I'm happy that it was a happy ending! And fully happy to admit that tears were shed.
I loved how they found an organic way to have Din fight a Dark Trooper one on one. Excellent storytelling there, and a very good way of naturally ramping up the dread, though I kinda would have liked maybe an initial breach scene of a handful of Dark Troopers maybe getting onto the bridge, and *just* being repelled, before another wave comes, and is then distracted by...
LUKE! Yup, didn't expect he'd show up in this! I saw the one X-Wing and thought "oh, that's just going to be a precursor for like a MASSIVE New Republic fleet", and then it just landed, I was thinking "maybe Luke then?" when I saw Grogu. The lightsaber looked white on screen, thought maybe Ahsoka, and then when it was green, I had no doubts it was Luke. I am pleasantly surprised we saw his face and that he spoke, I was wondering if they'd have kept him hooded, but no! And I have to say, the de-aging was done very well, very little uncanny valley for me, though I am (again) a little concerned about the risks of "we can tell indefinite stories in this time period using digital actors from the OG series", but that's more of a personal concern.
I felt they hammered the "the darksaber can't cut through pure beskar" a little much, but I appreciate the reminder for less involved audiences. The Mandolorians squabbling at the start felt a little drawn out (could've skipped the fight scene, but the rest was good, I liked Bo-Katan's jabs at Boba and his one liner back). Boba being called "not Mandolorian" feels a little strange coming from the 6th episode, where I thought he made it clear that he himself *did* identify as Mandalorian, because he was the son of a foundling, so Bo-Katan rejecting that and Boba just accepting it felt a bit off.
And, as mentioned, Bo-Katan's being a bit of an idiot here - which, I expect is a deliberate choice to draw some irony between her first interaction with Din, where she called him a cultist for not taking his helmet off, but now she's exhibiting all the culty rules and traditions. As said before, I do wonder if they'll bring up the Wren issue from Rebels, and if that's why Bo-Katan couldn't consolidate power (still want to know how Gideon got the saber, and why he never pressed to become ruler of Mandalore), but if it's a case of "people publicly saw her given the Darksaber", that shouldn't be an issue here, as there were only like 5 people who would have known Bo-Katan didn't take it by force (and none of them, bar Gideon, who really shouldn't be trusted by anyone, have any motivation to deny Bo-Katan's claim).
Basically, it's pretty clear that Bo-Katan and Din will come to blows, but it really doesn't *need* to happen, from a rational perspective. But hey - looking forward to what goes down, and what's up next!
So this morning they announced Jeremy Bulloch's death on the CBC and it kinda struck me as I was getting out of bed that they had the Mandalorian theme accompanying the piece - granted Boba Fett's actual theme from Empire probably wouldn't have the tone they were looking for, but it occurred to me that Mandalorian really has, despite all predictions to the contrary, secured itself in the pop culture space as genuine 'Star Wars.'
And that feels pretty good.
As for the episode:
The Bounty-Man:
Spoiler:
I was honestly expecting the stuff about Jango/Boba's mandalorian status to be left alone after that retcon - I was pleasantly surprised to see Bo arguing with him about it this episode.
The Cylons:
Spoiler:
I was expecting their armored plates to be made of beskar - since Gideon seems to be the only one we know who has at least, at one point, maintained a stockpile of the stuff. The fight with Mando seemed to back that up, but then again I guess not in light of what the lightsaber did to them.
I hope we don't see them again. Or at least, not for another 40 years, then they can come back looking like us now.
The Ending:
Spoiler:
So I guess in light of the events leading up to the sequel trilogy and Mando's promise to see Grogu again - I think they're setting up a future or epilogue arc of old Mando rescuing Grogu from you-know-who.
That face effect for Luke looked really bad to me - worse than the primitive version of it we see in Tron Legacy - that voice seemed close though - that can't be Mark, can it?
Perhaps he's actually Luuke! (OoooOOoo!)
I'm genuinely curious what they intend to do with a Boba Fett series... or is it an arc? I know certain corners of the internet are going to take this as proof positive that Pedro has left the series and Boba will be taking the reins.
I also really like that, for all the times the bad guys have killed themselves, or gotten themselves killed in this series, Gideon was foiled in his attempt to escape justice.
All in all, it didn't hit as hard for me as the ending to Season 1, but I'm still on board and the ride's been fun so far.
One thing I did notice though, was the lack of male mandalorian... It's as if they purposely intended the assault team to be all female (not that I have a problem with that personally) but it was because of one of two reasons... Kathleen Kennedy, in which case, prepare for angry misogynists doing reaction video's on youtube, or it was a subtle two fingers to those same misogynists by Favrou... Which is hilarious and I highly approve of.
However, if it comes out it was to do with KK, then someone at disney needs to bite the bullet at disney/lucas and really get her out, it's just awful PR for her to be involved in any creative aspect at this point
Whether or not KK made that call is ultimately irrelevant, people will claim she did in order to get people to click on their articles, links, youtube videos, etc and the people who would get mad will get mad.
all women assault team. Didn't feel fan-servicey, didn't feel contrived at all. We knew not to expect the male Mandalorian from the expositional scene of the two Mandos at the bar, Boba as the pilot makes total sense, and there's no-one who really felt *absent*.
Anyone who feels "offended" because "womenz" or thinks it was fanservicey is probably reading far too deep into it. It made sense within the context of the show, and that's what matters.
all women assault team. Didn't feel fan-servicey, didn't feel contrived at all. We knew not to expect the male Mandalorian from the expositional scene of the two Mandos at the bar, Boba as the pilot makes total sense, and there's no-one who really felt *absent*.
Anyone who feels "offended" because "womenz" or thinks it was fanservicey is probably reading far too deep into it. It made sense within the context of the show, and that's what matters.
Imagine telling someone just 3 years ago that there is going to be a Mandalorian TV show led by the dude that got stomped by the Mountain and feature an all female assault team consisting of an MMA fighter, WWE star, Mulan, and Starbuck.
That was pretty great and I'm curious what future shows will be about and the next season (there is going to be another one, right?).
Spoiler:
I did feel like the "we must fight" bit was both interesting in contrast to events from Rebels, and simultaneously contrived. I'm not clear why they can't just have a scuffle and be done with it, though the potential for conflict between two nominally heroic characters is something we don't see often enough. I'm also taking the big moment at the end (ooooooooh) to be our answer to who Grogu was talking to a few episodes back. Dark Troopers were suitable terrifying and I loved the subtle look of confused terror on Gideon's face right there when the big moment happens, as if he knows exactly who is coming way before anyone else, including the audience.
Did anyone else notice how the final fight with the Troopers was very similar to Vader's appearance in Rogue One, but reversed?
all women assault team. Didn't feel fan-servicey, didn't feel contrived at all. We knew not to expect the male Mandalorian from the expositional scene of the two Mandos at the bar, Boba as the pilot makes total sense, and there's no-one who really felt *absent*.
Anyone who feels "offended" because "womenz" or thinks it was fanservicey is probably reading far too deep into it. It made sense within the context of the show, and that's what matters.
It's an interesting contrast to Avengers End Game, where the moment was completely called out and contrived in context. Someone learned a lesson, or wanted to show someone else up XD
I like that his style of fighting was perfectly in line with his chronological last appearance. No CGI flips. No weird super speed powers. Just chopping wood.
Lance845 wrote: I like that his style of fighting was perfectly in line with his chronological last appearance. No CGI flips. No weird super speed powers. Just chopping wood.
I think I saw a couple of one-handed tricks in there.
Spoiler:
Also, there was definitely a shot where they forgot to add the lightsaber effect and he's blocking blaster bolts with a green light-up toy.
Lack of male mandalorians - there were two, Boba and Din. They might not be actual mando's, from a certain point of view, but I think its pretty well established that they are mando-ish enough to be considered as such by some, if not by others. Anyway, point is there was plenty of testosterone in the episode, the decision to have a quartet of female mando's was likely done to counterbalance all the other male characters from a diversity quota standpoint. Doesn't really seem like something worth getting angry over or trying to push any sort of agenda other than the fact that females exist. If you "noticed" this then it says a lot more about you then it does about KK, Favreau, or Filoni.
Bo-Katan accepting the Darksaber from Sabine Wren is also probably the reason why she won't accept it from Din - She accepted the darksaber, took leadership of mandalore, and basically fethed it up. Mandalore is implied/stated to have been destroyed and virtually wiped from existence by the Empire under Bo-Katan's watch. She didn't "earn" her right to rule Mandalore the first time around, and failed in the process of leading. Now she has a chip on her shoulder, she wants to reclaim her planet, and prove that she has the right to lead it. This no doubt means that she intends to earn leadership of Mandalore the proper way - by fighting and killing Din in order to claim the Darksaber as being rightfully hers. Also remember that even with the darksaber Mandalore was still in the midst of a civil war and she clearly did not have the support of all the people, which might have lead to her perception that she must "earn" the right in order to win the respect of those who opposed her. Or whatever.
Baby Grogu + Luke Skywalker power hour - This has me reaaaaal nervous. We know what happened to Luke's students. I'm reeeeeeeally hoping that Grogu wasn't amongst them, or I will *never* forgive Favloni.
Boba's status - Not sure why everyone is so confused by this, nor why people consider this a retcon. He never said he was a Mando, he rather made it a point to not say that he was. As far as Jango is concerned - hes a foundling, some might not consider them to be true Mando's (as was the case with Almec in The Clone Wars), and perhaps the child of a Foundling isn't automatically considered to be a mando by some/only a Mando by blood can give birth to other mando's, etc. If nothing else, the Republics clone army were certainly not considered to be mandalorians despite being made of Jango's DNA, so its logical to assume that Boba wouldn't be considered as such either - especially when you remember that Bo-Katan and others probably aren't aware that Boba was a "special" clone.
Gideon not being ruler of Mandalore - Theres nothing left for him to rule, it'd be a meaningless title given that the Mandalorians are established to be all but extinct as both a people and a culture at this point.
It could be that the simple handing over is why she previously failed to unite the Mandalorians, so this time she has to do it right?
Just speculation though.
Well to discuss the crux of the issue: the Darksaber.
Spoiler:
Bo-Katan already accepted the Darksaber from Sabine in Rebels and was accepted by the Mandalorians as their leader. She then lost the planet and it was turned to a lifeless ball of glass. My theory as to why shee insists to take it "from the cold dead hands of her enemies" is that she now believes that her failure to hold Mandalore was that she failed to kill Maul herself and reclaim the sword. Now, she has convinced herself that the only way to restore Mandalore is to "do it right" and win it in combat. If Din was a radical Mandalorian at the start of the show, he turned slowly into a more moderate one. Bo-Katan, of camera, seem to journey in the opposite direction from a fairly moderate Mandalorian to a more radical one.
I was pretty darn surprised that when Gideon shot her that they didn't simply kill her character there and then, thus easily solving the issue if only by killing slightly unceremoniously her character. Note that the fight doesn't need to be to the death for it to be valid it seems. Bo-Katan considers that Din has won it and Gideon is still alive. They could easily solve the issue in a non-lethal way. If death is the only acceptable outcome, then Gideon is also still alive and could simply be forced to fight it off, again with nothing to win in it for him.
On the issuee of the Jedi rescue
Spoiler:
Swear to god if it turns out Kylo Ren killed Grogu, I'll be really pissed.
On the issue of the ending:
Spoiler:
Is it me or was it the last show of the Mandalorian? They are already putting up new stuff and the end credit were not the traditionnal concept art, but just a blank screen with the names of the people. The main plot has also been resolved with Grogu being gone. The loose end like who will become Mandalore could be solved in other shows if at all.
epronovost wrote:Well to discuss the crux of the issue: the Darksaber.
Spoiler:
Bo-Katan already accepted the Darksaber from Sabine in Rebels and was accepted by the Mandalorians as their leader. She then lost the planet and it was turned to a lifeless ball of glass. My theory as to why shee insists to take it "from the cold dead hands of her enemies" is that she now believes that her failure to hold Mandalore was that she failed to kill Maul herself and reclaim the sword. Now, she has convinced herself that the only way to restore Mandalore is to "do it right" and win it in combat. If Din was a radical Mandalorian at the start of the show, he turned slowly into a more moderate one. Bo-Katan, of camera, seem to journey in the opposite direction from a fairly moderate Mandalorian to a more radical one.
I was pretty darn surprised that when Gideon shot her that they didn't simply kill her character there and then, thus easily solving the issue if only by killing slightly unceremoniously her character. Note that the fight doesn't need to be to the death for it to be valid it seems. Bo-Katan considers that Din has won it and Gideon is still alive. They could easily solve the issue in a non-lethal way. If death is the only acceptable outcome, then Gideon is also still alive and could simply be forced to fight it off, again with nothing to win in it for him.
Spoiler:
Ah, good call on Gideon not being dead for Bo-Katan to accept it. Either Gideon still needs to die (which could be done after the New Republic get their info from him), or Bo-Katan could just punch Mando in the face, he "yields", and she takes power.
As for Gideon shooting on his way out, I kinda expected him to kill the other Mandalorian, but I'm glad that she wasn't wearing a red shirt!
On the issue of the ending:
Spoiler:
Is it me or was it the last show of the Mandalorian? They are already putting up new stuff and the end credit were not the traditionnal concept art, but just a blank screen with the names of the people. The main plot has also been resolved with Grogu being gone. The loose end like who will become Mandalore could be solved in other shows if at all.
I vaguely remember they did the same for the last season finale?
So, as has so frequently turned out to be the case, Mark Hamill is a lying heap of bantha poodo. "I won't play Luke again, don't like the de-aging thing, I'm finished with the character, Sebastian Stan can take over...."
Absolutely glorious. Well played you magnificent bounder.
Somewhat disappointed that they used Luke as the Jedi who comes to the rescue. I had hoped they would stay away from all the OG main characters. Now I have to wonder if they'll get Han Solo and Chewbacca in the next season or something. That being said, we did get our "badass Jedi scene" for Luke, so welcome to the family for him (shame about what he becomes in the sequels).
Spoiler:
No mention at all of Grand Admiral Thrawn, so it looks like there was no real connection between him and Moff Gideon. Guess they're saving that angle for Ahsoka's series.
Spoiler:
Any idea if the Boba Fett thing at the end is going to be the story of season 3 of this show, or if Boba is getting his own show?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Someone on a different forum posted this, but it's almost blow-for-blow my thought process during that scene:
Spoiler:
"...One X-wing? Is that...no, couldn't be. There's no way they'd have him appear outside of a main movie, right? They called in that recurring pilot character. Yeah, that's it"
"Okay, it's someone with a lightsaber, but it can't be him. Maybe Ahsoka got an X-wing somehow?"
"Wait, that's a green lightsaber - and he's clearly a human. Can't be Ahsoka. So that means...no, it must be Ezra. Yeah, that's definitely it."
"...HE'S WEARING A BLACK GLOVE ON ONE HAND. DON'T YOU TEASE ME LIKE SHOW. DON'T YOU DARE!"
"DSASFHGTDSGRGJTYUFGND!"
This is pretty much exactly how it went for me, as well, with the addition of watching the elevator lights sequence and thinking 'Don't you dare cut to credits before those doors open...'
Spoiler:
Also, I thought the de-aging was actually damned impressive here. Artoo looked practically new...
Ahem... But no, there were one or two spots where it was slightly uncanny valley, but for the most part it was pretty close to flawless. Although having just watched Tron: Legacy again yesterday, I'm curious as to how good it will still look in a couple of years.
The de-aging of his voice was almost more impressive than the face, though.
Any idea if the Boba Fett thing at the end is going to be the story of season 3 of this show, or if Boba is getting his own show?
Spoiler:
It seems unlikely that they would release season 3 of one Mandalorian show and a spin-off Mandalorian show at the same time, so it does have me wondering of the Book of Boba Fett is series 3, rather than a separate show as they had supposedly originally planned.
I was kinda disappointed with the finale to be honest.
Spoiler:
The Dark Troopers were hyped up and the one-on-one fight with Din was good, but I felt that there should have been more they actually did before they got shredded by Luke. Like at least Bo Katan's sidekick or Fenn Rau could have died. Also not crazy with the whole darksaber "they must fight" angle as others have mentioned, since it seems like it's a conflict they're trying to set up for the next season that kinda seems forced. Moff Gideon himself falls down the same pit of underwhelming Imperial villain. I was hoping he'd be more calculating and separate the team via blast doors or something and funnel them towards a killing field before they get saved by Luke.
I guess I can look forward to Boba being the new Fresh-Prince of Tatooine.
Knowing Grogu's ability to cheat death in the prequels already, I wouldn't be surprised if he survived Kylo Ren's rampage in Jedi Purge 2: Electric Bugaloo.
Seeing Luke in his prime legit makes me wish he wasn't handled so poorly in the sequels.
Well, Disney doesn't seem to be interested in doing anything with the sequels, which is fine by me. If they want to use the time-travel temple to erase it, that's fine by me.
Spoiler:
Lambda class shuttle? Slave I being cool and shooty? What a great start!
I did notice that the boarding quartet were women, but the difference here vs. the sequels was that it made sense. There were enough blokes in it and they were competent; no "yo momma" jokes, no being tossed around like an incompetent ragdoll, no getting slapped down by Leia or Admiral Purple Hair. If you want strong, female characters - that's how you do it, not posing for a group shot whilst shouting "grrl powa!"
Only time that I've ever paused a TV show (whilst the CCTV shots of Dark Troopers getting chopped up was happening) in order to run upstairs to my wife to proclaim that "The Mandalorian is the greatest effing TV show of all time - of all time!
Just saw the finale; the only part that irked me was 'my gun jammed', FROM what?? its a laser blaster. where is the guy mandalorion with Bo katan?
One part I thought they could of add in the dialogue between Bo katan and Fett, when she said I know your voice, you're a clone, "I'm the original" Fett.
Big Mac wrote: Just saw the finale; the only part that irked me was 'my gun jammed', FROM what??
From older material, blasters work off the accelerated gas version of laser generation, and have moving parts.
One part I thought they could of add in the dialogue between Bo katan and Fett, when she said I know your voice, you're a clone, "I'm the original" Fett.
He's not, though. Jango was the original. Boba is a clone.
Chillreaper wrote: Well, Disney doesn't seem to be interested in doing anything with the sequels, which is fine by me. If they want to use the time-travel temple to erase it, that's fine by me.
Are we forgetting the pickled proto-Snokes from a few episodes ago? If anything I'd say we had too much FOshadowing given that remnant forces like Gideons that aren't making their way for unknown space aren't supposed to be in the know.
Big Mac wrote: Just saw the finale; the only part that irked me was 'my gun jammed', FROM what?? its a laser blaster. where is the guy mandalorion with Bo katan?
The GM had her add a red die due to running and gunning with a heavy weapon and she rolled a despair - needs an action to clear the jam, which probably got upgraded to a difficult action because she decided to club some troopers with it.
Big Mac wrote: One part I thought they could of add in the dialogue between Bo katan and Fett, when she said I know your voice, you're a clone, "I'm the original" Fett.
I also enjoyed the Imperial Pilot’s speech, about their being millions on the Deathstars. Adds an extra layer to the mythos, I find.
Spoiler:
In some version of the Expanded Universe the Imperial version of that story is that the Death Star was one of a series of mining stations and that rebels hijacked and turned on Alderaan - and the Emperor came to the second one to stop them from doing it again.
Thank the maker so much for clear, non-blurry “WTF is going on” action sequences.
All the fights were beautifully choreographed, made sense, and were excellently shot.
Spoiler:
Particularly two elements.
1. Dark Troopers being powerful, but slow. As if they are indeed prototypes. Works in progress where they’ve cracked the skill and strength level they wanted, but still need to work on fluidity of movement.
2. Din’s scrap with Gideon, particularly the sabre heating up the Beskar, and the Beskar rapidly cooling. It’s such a wonderful little touch. It equally shows why Beskar is so good, whilst also showing it’s not invincible. Highly heat resistant, but not heat proof. I think I appreciate it all the more because they really didn’t need that level of attention, but did it anyway.
2a. Luke’s cutting through the Dark Troopers. Not just his Corridor fight, but shades of Vader and Ren’s fighting style.
Wünderbra!
Big Mac wrote:Just saw the finale; the only part that irked me was 'my gun jammed', FROM what?? its a laser blaster. where is the guy mandalorion with Bo katan?
Spoiler:
Probably died off screen in the time between Bo-Katan meeting Din and their second encounter. When I saw it was only those two, that was my assumption, at least. He could be off running another covert mission himself, or yeah, maybe dead.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Genuinely genuine praise?
Thank the maker so much for clear, non-blurry “WTF is going on” action sequences.
All the fights were beautifully choreographed, made sense, and were excellently shot.
Very much agreed. And as much as I'd have loved to see more
Spoiler:
I liked the Din v Dark Trooper scrap. It makes it very clear that Din was out of his depth, even the normally deadly whistling birds weren't having an effect, and so we can infer just how utterly fethed the rest of the group would have been.
I might have maybe liked for a trio of Dark Troopers to have gotten into the main bridge, and be taken down (with extreme effort), only to close the doors and THEN we see the full platoon, but I see how that could either just be too long, and if a character didn't die, the audience might still feel cheated.
I’d actually say ease of following the action has always been Star Wars’ strong suit - even during Daft Fights in the prequels.
Sure, the blades were slung around at unlikely speeds - but the actual fights never left the audience wondering who was who, nor what was actually going on.
Compare to my favourite whipping boy example of getting it dead wrong, Bayformers. Too much, too blurred, too fast, too close. Yes it’s arguably a more realistic punch up, but it’s just not as satisfying for the audience.
I liked the Din v Dark Trooper scrap. It makes it very clear that Din was out of his depth, even the normally deadly whistling birds weren't having an effect, and so we can infer just how utterly fethed the rest of the group would have been.
I might have maybe liked for a trio of Dark Troopers to have gotten into the main bridge, and be taken down (with extreme effort), only to close the doors and THEN we see the full platoon, but I see how that could either just be too long, and if a character didn't die, the audience might still feel cheated.
Spoiler:
Yeah, I mostly agree. But, showing their relentless nature as they just pummelled down a blast door really built anticipation all the same. And Luke cutting through them was a thing of absolute beauty.
I also appreciated the rest of Din’s party being very wary of letting Luke into the bridge. I mean, he turned up unannounced, ignored their hail, cut through the Dark Troopers with nearly contemptuous ease, and still had his saber ignited.
My favourite bit was when he crushed the last one. We’ve seen Force Crush used before - but we’ve never seen it with such dramatic effect. Mind you, you can do more to a Droid on screen than you can a living being in terms of rating!
The de-aging of his voice was almost more impressive than the face, though.
Spoiler:
Did they, though? Mark's a very versatile voice actor. I don't think "speak like you did 40 years ago" would necessarily be beyond him. Difficult, certainly, but I wouldn't be surprised if he managed it.
Did they, though? Mark's a very versatile voice actor. I don't think "speak like you did 40 years ago" would necessarily be beyond him. Difficult, certainly, but I wouldn't be surprised if he managed it.
Spoiler:
Yeah, I think people forget this is the same guy who voices the Joker, and one of the best ones at that. I can believe he can pull off his younger voice given that it's not like he has that many lines in this episode.
I did notice that the boarding quartet were women, but the difference here vs. the sequels was that it made sense. There were enough blokes in it and they were competent; no "yo momma" jokes, no being tossed around like an incompetent ragdoll, no getting slapped down by Leia or Admiral Purple Hair. If you want strong, female characters - that's how you do it, not posing for a group shot whilst shouting "grrl powa!"
Yup, it worked so well precisely because they didn't draw attention to it. That just happened to be the group that was there, and they did the thing.
Easily fixed by porting those trash movies into Legends where they belong and letting Filoni and Favreau tell the real tale, incorporating the best parts of the EU going forward.
Easily fixed by porting those trash movies into Legends where they belong and letting Filoni and Favreau tell the real tale, incorporating the best parts of the EU going forward.
Holy gak that’s actually an option isn’t it? They could do that...and honestly I think they should.
Big Mac wrote: Just saw the finale; the only part that irked me was 'my gun jammed', FROM what??
From older material, blasters work off the accelerated gas version of laser generation, and have moving parts.
One part I thought they could of add in the dialogue between Bo katan and Fett, when she said I know your voice, you're a clone, "I'm the original" Fett.
He's not, though. Jango was the original. Boba is a clone.
I know Jango was the original where the clones are from, but I thought Boba was the son(biologically) of Jango; I'm not a huge SW fan who read all the books and play all the games, only watched some of the movies.
Easily fixed by porting those trash movies into Legends where they belong and letting Filoni and Favreau tell the real tale, incorporating the best parts of the EU going forward.
Holy gak that’s actually an option isn’t it? They could do that...and honestly I think they should.
Given how much reboots are a thing in Hollywood and Disney rereleasing movies they already made in a different live-action format, I would be surprised if they didn't try to do another run at a trilogy for SW for people who weren't satisfied with the sequel trilogy.
There's no need for it, though. They have thousands of years of timeline they can explore instead, and make something new rather than rehashing the sequel trilogy in the hope of coming up with something that pleases enough of the people who disliked the first lot to counteract alienating those who did.
The most likely course is that they just ignore the sequel era for a while to let everything die down, and once the vocal critics have moved on to complaining about something else, will consider exploring other stories in that setting. But it's certainly not critical that they spend much time right now in that part of the timeline... They've got a strong focus on the period immediately post-RotJ right now, which is working for them, and if High Republic proves popular that will give them all sorts of new possibilities.
I could see an odd couple sitcom with gonk and the whack a mole prequel pod repair droids though. Queen Kathleen, hire/call me please! I'm full of ideas and I'm willing to debase myself on twitter too!
