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No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 19:43:33


Post by: Geemoney


I agree with you flandarz...when I was using the real loota bomb, I spent too many command points on them. Often those command points are better spent in other places.

On the Souped up SAG, I think it is a great weapon for 80pts and two CP. The last game I played it destroyed 2 baneblades in like 4 turns. I often double shoot it. In my experience it seems to do either no damage or 10 - 13; and I am perfectly happy with that output.

To those complaining that sometimes it fails and does nothing, I think that is an issue with orks in general, especially our shooting. Our ceiling is real high, but our stuff just isn't that reliable.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 19:54:46


Post by: Vineheart01


i WISH i had that kind of luck against baneblades.
Last time i faced one, granted i didnt have the suped up sag, i rolled boxcars against it twice and missed every shot anyway.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 19:55:24


Post by: flaming tadpole


I think you need the BCP app to check.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 20:13:08


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Guys to clarify I can see the lists and I get how they play, my thoughts are whether Orks are top tier or not.

The loota and grot shield combo is significantly weaker the more armies have access to a Vect stratagem. It is also exceptionally obvious and easy to play against. Without reliable grot shields Lootas are poor.

We don't have a cost effective way to deal with Knights. Knights are one of the most prevalent aspects of the current meta.

Almost every other faction had significant price cuts from CA18. We didn't. Our characters went up in points while almost all others dropped significantly, particularly named ones. I feel that we will see the fruits of these changes soon in the meta, particularly how badly we perform in comparison.

Is our playstyle really going to be more green tide and that's it? That's the best we can do? Might as well be playing index. Am I the only one a bit disappointed with this?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 20:16:08


Post by: flandarz


I feel like if we can clear the screen units, Dreadz and Manz can do alright against Knights. But I agree that Knights, and LoWs in general, are one of our hardest match-ups. Particularly the Castellan.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 20:50:33


Post by: PiñaColada


Big blob of MANZ can do work against a knight but dread will do poorly since the knight can interrupt combat after 1 is done hitting him.

I'm reserving judgement till after the LVO but am a bit sad to know that Nicks list didn't involve a bit more finesse than this. I think it's cool he's playing orks in the LVO and he might do great work there but GSC and beta bolters will mess up this list more easily in the near future.

I know GW has said that they want to save point changes to CA but I sure hope they realise that's a mistake. They need to adjust DE & IK and hopefully they'll help Orks out a bit there also. If the loota bomb goes out of style then it's tough to see how the Orks will compete at the highest levels



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 21:06:11


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Eihnlazer wrote:
@tneva

Its not light on terrain but you cant escape from lootas. They can just "Da Jump" the lootas to somewhere they can see him and nuke him.

There is literally no way to hide a monster or vehicle from the lootas on turn 1. Granted, you can make it a trade (make the lootas jump away from their grot shield to get the target) which might not always be favorable for the orcz.
If you think you "can't escape from lootas" you've never played against someone with enough bubblewrap.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 21:08:02


Post by: Eihnlazer


Well sure bacon, I could play a nid list that makes lootas ineffective, but its a rather boring list and I have fun doing things other than shove 200 gaunts around the table.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 21:37:22


Post by: flaming tadpole


Ya I do agree I don't think orks will be able to compete as well in the near future I just don't think it'll primarily because of more armies having a Vect stratagem. Right now Deathwatch and DA have a higher win % versus orks in tournaments than DE and now with the beta bolters it's gonna be even worse.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 21:50:56


Post by: Grimskul


 flandarz wrote:
I just run a mini-Loota Bomb now. 15 with a 3x10 Grot Screen. 25 Lootaz and 60+ Grots to guard them is just a heavy investment, in points and CP. I feel like you should bring some Lootas, but not base your entire list around them.


Yeah, the initial shock of the loota bomb seems to be wearing off now that people know what to expect. It's probably better at this point to go for a more flexible (if not as killy) approach rather than going too all in.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 22:31:40


Post by: flandarz


I agree. If Lootas were cheaper, it might be worth it. But throwing 500+ pts into the Mobs and Grots is just asking for someone to hamstring your entire list by wiping them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 22:38:19


Post by: An Actual Englishman


So the most logical question is 'what is their replacement?'

Mek guns? Trukk Bustas? Walking Evil Sunz Meganobz with Grot Shield support?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/04 23:13:04


Post by: flaming tadpole


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
So the most logical question is 'what is their replacement?'

Mek guns? Trukk Bustas? Walking Evil Sunz Meganobz with Grot Shield support?
Most likely just one squad of lootas and then more boys. I did see an odd ork list that did pretty well at a tourney recently. It had like 3 flyers, 2 gorkanauts, and a morkanaut in a dread waaaagh detachment. Super weird list but looked fun to play. If our other units get the price cuts they need in the next CA I think it could open up our options a lot. Would be fun to do a mass buggie list or something.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/05 04:02:52


Post by: JimOnMars


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
So the most logical question is 'what is their replacement?'

Mek guns? Trukk Bustas? Walking Evil Sunz Meganobz with Grot Shield support?
It would be Mek guns, if they weren't so danged expensive dollar-wise. 18 individual shooty units for 558 total? Yes please.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/05 04:45:47


Post by: Vineheart01


yeah id be surprised to see anyone run more than a couple of proper mek gun models.
Rest are gonna be kitbashes. Trukk kits ftw


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/05 04:59:34


Post by: flandarz


I'm a big fan of working with the Orks' strengths, personally. Sure, take some ranged stuff, but don't forget that we're a CC army. If we wanted to be good at shooting, we'd be playing literally anything else (maybe not Slaaneshi). We wanna get stuck in and chop away.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/05 08:05:12


Post by: Waaaghpower


 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah id be surprised to see anyone run more than a couple of proper mek gun models.
Rest are gonna be kitbashes. Trukk kits ftw

I have three legitimate, Games Workshop Traktor Kannons and three Smasha Guns that I got for about fifteen bucks apiece.
Just gotta dig up those 2nd edition artillery models.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/05 08:19:42


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 flaming tadpole wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
So the most logical question is 'what is their replacement?'

Mek guns? Trukk Bustas? Walking Evil Sunz Meganobz with Grot Shield support?
Most likely just one squad of lootas and then more boys. I did see an odd ork list that did pretty well at a tourney recently. It had like 3 flyers, 2 gorkanauts, and a morkanaut in a dread waaaagh detachment. Super weird list but looked fun to play. If our other units get the price cuts they need in the next CA I think it could open up our options a lot. Would be fun to do a mass buggie list or something.


Yea Ben's list. It came 3rd at a tournament after going 4-2.

Its a Freebooters list that gets mass +1 to hit. Probably the most interesting competitive list I've seen for a while.

 flandarz wrote:
I'm a big fan of working with the Orks' strengths, personally. Sure, take some ranged stuff, but don't forget that we're a CC army. If we wanted to be good at shooting, we'd be playing literally anything else (maybe not Slaaneshi). We wanna get stuck in and chop away.


The problem is - outside of Orkguinius we have no effective way to deal with Knights in cqc (or even make it there). We aren't particularly good at CC when compared to some other units and army compositions either. Far too glass and not enough cannon.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/05 08:24:51


Post by: PiñaColada


I don't know what our next big thing might be. I imagine a group of 10(+2) nobz with big choppas/choppas & x2choppas are going to be a pretty common staple. They're just easy to transport/tellyport and bring enough hurt to potentially earn their points back quickly.

MANZ are still too expensive, if GW lowers the killsaw to 12/18 (so more in line with everyone else) at personally I'd be a lot more interested in running them in larger squads.

I like our planes but I wouldn't call them hyper efficient, look at what a crimson hunter exarch costs. 161 freakin points.

If IK go out of style then maybe 3x bonebreakas can make a dent. They're super killy if they get into CC.

I still don't think boyz spam will ever truly make a comeback unless something changes on our end. DEathwatch with beta bolter will be tough but G-man standing next to parked repulsors/stormravens etc will chew through them quickly as well. I sort of wonder how good a 500 grot list would be though, snake them all back to a warlord or two to make them fearless and just lock it all down. Terrible to both play yourself and against but probably would win against a lot of people by virtue of board control.

Whatever the next Ork meta is I hope we get some help in the March FAQ. Our bikes are starting to look terrible when they're one of the most expensive bikes in the game and beta bolters are going to be a thing. Plus the GSC bikers are less than half the cost. Our buggies probably aren't better than the GSC ridgerunner which is like 84 points. All our CC gear and plenty of shooting weapons are costed poorly. I don't know, I'll keep trukking along with my speed freeks but at least my friends undertand now that the army they've faced really isn't all that good.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/05 08:31:58


Post by: Moriarty


 flandarz wrote:
I'm a big fan of working with the Orks' strengths, personally. Sure, take some ranged stuff, but don't forget that we're a CC army. If we wanted to be good at shooting, we'd be playing literally anything else (maybe not Slaaneshi). We wanna get stuck in and chop away.


For a CC army, we sure do have a _lot_ of shooting units.

It’s just that they keep being hamstrung by the rules.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/05 09:15:03


Post by: tneva82


 flaming tadpole wrote:
8% not 18%. 18% is the total representation of all space elf lists. In any case you act as if your just gonna auto lose against DE, I can't help you if that's been your personal experience but if that was the reality orks wouldn't be winning GT's like they have been where, funnily enough, a lot of aeldar soup is present.


What happens to orks chance of winning game if those 25 lootas die before they get to even shoot once? Generally not well. That loota bomb is such a resource hog that if they lose it they don't have much else left. The trouble with one dimensional armies like loota star is that you lose it your army gets screwed.

And funnilly enough orks arent' dominating tournaments...Funny that with aeldar soups that automatically delete loota star 5/6 times prevelant at the top.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
I just run a mini-Loota Bomb now. 15 with a 3x10 Grot Screen. 25 Lootaz and 60+ Grots to guard them is just a heavy investment, in points and CP. I feel like you should bring some Lootas, but not base your entire list around them.


Of course with 3x10 grots that 15 is also fairly trivial to remove. You also need to either use some boyz etc or any T1 chargers(imperial soup can do that, so can tyranid) can disable that threat as well.

But yeah 25 is basing your army and if those go away(and dark eldars and in future GSC do that pretty much automatically) you are royally screwed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah id be surprised to see anyone run more than a couple of proper mek gun models.
Rest are gonna be kitbashes. Trukk kits ftw


Though that only helps if you want multiple differents. 18 smasha guns is still going to be pretty expensive. 6 smasha, 6 traktor and 6 KMK more reasonable proposition though still pretty expensive. 6 mek gun+4 trukks


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/05 11:29:02


Post by: PiñaColada


You can technically squeeze out a few more smasha gunz if you have some planes that aren't built as wazboms. I also feel like you could mod the traktor beams to look like smasha gunz, they don't all have to look identical.

But yeah, being cost prohibitive is probably the main reason we aren't really seeing 10 smashas in most games. The smasha gun is also basically the one unit I'm somewhat worried about getting a price hike at the next time orks are adjusted.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/05 12:00:06


Post by: deffrekka


Ive had quite good success with the Arch Arsonist build, Big Mek in Warbike with 2 Kombi-skorchas and 1 upgraded to be the Gobshot using Kustom Ammo.

Hes killed Smash Captain, a Knight, numerous vehicles and units, hes quite feared around my LGS. He has the speed and the number of shots to chew through chaff and elite infantry alike, he probably outperforms the Souped SAG Mek and is also more durable. You can then still have your Killaklaw Warboss on bike to charge into the softened up targets, 6d6 str 5 ap 1 auto hits arent no joke in addition to his 12 str 5 ap - small arms fire.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/05 13:36:43


Post by: PiñaColada


The arch arsonist build is certainly pretty scary as well, but you need to be able to use Index units. It's also a completely different type of range, I use the SAG to shoot the things I'm guaranteed to not charge or consolidate into T1.

I personally like the KMK but that's my big gripe with it, 36" isn't enough to fulfill that role, even the 48" smasha guns might fall a bit short every now and then


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/05 16:15:42


Post by: flaming tadpole


PiñaColada wrote:
You can technically squeeze out a few more smasha gunz if you have some planes that aren't built as wazboms. I also feel like you could mod the traktor beams to look like smasha gunz, they don't all have to look identical.

But yeah, being cost prohibitive is probably the main reason we aren't really seeing 10 smashas in most games. The smasha gun is also basically the one unit I'm somewhat worried about getting a price hike at the next time orks are adjusted.
You could maybe try 3d printing some smasha guns, lol. I don't know if they'd turn out all wonky or not. Might be useful to just 3d print the gun part itself and then kitbash the chasis with trukk bits and stuff. I should check the internetz to see if someones actually tried that haha.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/07 00:09:30


Post by: SemperMortis


 Jidmah wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
He's a character so assuming you put him in a ruin and screened him properly (and "splurged" on the oiler) he's fairly tough to bring down.

My experience is quite the opposite. Some combi-bolters from terminators, seraphim, jump characters, any harlequin unit of your choice, bloat drones, inceptors, TS psykers, a flyer or just simply snipers and the SAG is gone. In a meta where I keep losing 2-3 death guard characters per turn (4W/T5/3+/5++), a T4/4+ model has no chance of surviving multiple turns.

If someone shoots him down you can use "Orkz is never beaten", which you can do on the non-relic version as well but 1d6 shots is probably never worth it.
So a lot of situational improvements are introduced or just more viable with the relic in addition to the extra d6 shots.

If I do, I have now spent 4 CP on something that has a decent chance of doing absolutely nothing, which is almost an entire battalion worth of CP. I could just bring two SAG instead of the one relic and have more CP to spend on other stuff.

Plus, a character in you backfield surrounded by a unit of grots should surive a couple of turns easily. If he gets 4 turns of shooting then he should be able to nuke something.

Quick run-down of its fate during my last 4 games:
1) Killed by a troupe turn 2 that wanted to take the objective he was sitting on. They shot a hole in grot screen with the help of their transport and plasma grenades.
2) Killed turn 2 by seraphin. The screen was wiped out using the burning decent stratagem so the sisters were free to shoot the mek out of its ruin. If he had survived the pistols, they could have charged him.
3) Killed turn 3 by a Hemlock Wraithfigher seeking to score a "kill a character" maelstrom objective.
4) Killed turn 1 by Illic and some rangers after admittedly dealing some nice damage to a hornet, almost killing it.

Or at the very least make your opponent vary of where he's placing stuff. I like the guy and I do want to try and use him alongside a normal SAG big mek at some point. I don't think that's a great build but it's pretty fun when your backline artillery consists of untargetable characters.

At least in my metagame every player has some space in his list reserved to target backfield units, since you basically auto-lose maelstrom and most of the CA2018 missions if you don't. SAG meks are easy targets for most fast or deep-striking units, and gretchin either keep bleeding models due to excess bolters and stubbers (or similar xenos weapons) or get wiped out to get VP or clear space for turn 2 deep strikers.

In general, this is not a huge problem as gretchin and SAG are dirt cheap for what they do, but the two extra CP feel wasted most of the times, since I could just be running another relic for less CP.


I brought him to the last tournament I went to, fielding him in a Bad moonz detachment with a loota bomb as well. This is how he faired

Game 1: Killed a IG Flyer with unit inside, used 2cp shot again and killed a second flyer filled with troops. The rest of hte game i didn't have the CP to spend on him but he still was dishing out damage to vehicles and infantry. the 2D6 helps a lot with the piss poor accuracy, but with reroll 1s and exploding 6s I was averaging about 3 hits a turn. The turn I killed the 1st flyer I rolled 11 shots at S8 and got 7 hits (WAY ABOVE AVERAGE!) and it was hilarious how badly the guys face looked when I told him it was AP-5

Game 2: Eldar shenanigans list, He iced a wave serpeant turn 1 with the shoot twice strat, turn 2 he finished off a second serpeant so I could use my shoot twice loota bomb on his heavy infantry, turn 3 he killed some dark reapers and basically was just popping 2 and 3 infantry a turn from than on.

Game 3: Liquefied a Castellan turn 1, rolled well, shot twice (teamed up with lootas) and killed his pinnacle unit turn 1 before it even got to fire. The Big Mek Relic Sag did 18 wounds by itself, absolutely gross. It died turn 1 on his turn, got some ridiculously lucky sniper shots, but by that point I had made my points back and then some as well as completely neutering his list and wrapped the game up turn 3. I unfortunately didn't win the tourny because I had missed a lot of points trying to table my opponents but it was still a lot of fun.

Before you get defensive though, I am well aware how random he can be, I think he is over priced as far as CP and I do think he is situational at best, however, the damage potential is finally there for a SAG in my opinion. If they took the damage from D6 to a flat 3 and made every SAG 2D6 shots I would go and buy 2 more Big Mekz with SAGz because of how fun they are and the sheer damage potential that they can have.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/07 15:38:21


Post by: CaptainO


Has anyone tried running a max squad of nob bikerz equipped with kustom shoota? Initially I thought about running them as evil sunz but the Speed freak detachment would allow them to double move using the strat. 28". As long as the wartrike was within 6" (his 20" range should allow one chap to be within range and therefore able to charge).

Thats after their insane shooting. You'd have to use more dakka (as they wouldn't get the evil sunz ability to assault and shoot without penalty). but as bad moons that results in 20 successful S4 hits and 30 successful s5 hits.

You could just stick with the evil sunz and loose a small bit of shooting but increase their movement by an additional 4" in total and maybe use the -1 to hit and drive by krumping strats.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The "90" shot nob biker unit would be a fairly effective anti air unit ignoring any minuses to hit thanks to more dakka. 320 points isnt too bad...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/07 15:56:13


Post by: Vineheart01


i'd much rather run 2x12 warbikers for ~370 than 12 nobbikers for 320.
Nobbikers are one of the stinker units in the codex atm.
edit: derp, looked at wrong list for their value lol...ignore that


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/07 16:00:54


Post by: PiñaColada


24 warbikers is not 370 points however. it's 552

Edit: But with that being said, I don't think nobz on warbikes are ever a good idea sadly. They're still a lot of points and all those s4 & s5 hits are AP0 and will not do much against anything other than chaff, something normal warbikers are already good at. Spending 2CP for more dakka isn't too bad, assuming there's no better target for it and they're firing at -1 to hit. I think I'd rather take a normal bike squad and invest the rest of the points towards a normal nobz squad.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/07 17:08:25


Post by: Grimskul


Yeah, unfortunately Biker Nobz are in a weird spot, where they don't really have a role that distinguishes them from other Nob units now that the Tellyporta stratagem exists. They don't have the cost efficiency of double choppa Nobz, and they don't have the resilience or damage output of Meganobz in CC. At best, they have the "most" dakka from their warbikes, but it wastes their CC statline and we already have arguably better shooting units from Flash Gitz, and as mentioned by PinaColada, with it only being AP0 it's not going to really hurt anything important.

Warbikes/Nob Bikerz need an exhaust cloud special rule that gives them either a 5+ invuln against shooting or (ugh I hate suggesting this) a -1 to hit for enemies shooting them at their current points cost to make them worth considering competitively.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/07 20:51:09


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Biker Nobs are a prime target for certain weapons and they are too expensive for their lack of durability. You're kinda banking on going first or they're likely dead.

Their primary role is to get high quality weapons in combat with their proper targets. Unfortunately other units do the job better and cheaper. Da jumped Nobs, Meganobz etc spring immediately to mind.

I don't see the point taking kustom shoota bike nobs. Those 4 str 4 ap 0 shots aren't worth the premium cost of the bike nob compared to warbikes.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/07 21:52:35


Post by: SemperMortis


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Biker Nobs are a prime target for certain weapons and they are too expensive for their lack of durability. You're kinda banking on going first or they're likely dead.

Their primary role is to get high quality weapons in combat with their proper targets. Unfortunately other units do the job better and cheaper. Da jumped Nobs, Meganobz etc spring immediately to mind.

I don't see the point taking kustom shoota bike nobs. Those 4 str 4 ap 0 shots aren't worth the premium cost of the bike nob compared to warbikes.


GDubz almost had Kustom Shoota's priced correctly for the damage output compared to storm bolters. Stormbolters pre beta rule were still better in every situation except from 13'-18' and even than it was questionable at best which was better (BS3+ vs 5+).

As it currently stands I don't take Kustom Shoota's at all except on warbosses if I have 2pts extra at the end of my list building. As for nob bikers running around with Kustom Shootas....40ppm if you don't take any CC weapons is just ridiculously expensive, especially for a T5, 3 wound model with a 4+ save. If it was a 2+ I would say "Rock on" but at 4+ you are just begging to be gunned down by every multi damage weapon in the game with any kind of rate of fire. Hell, even expensive single shot weapons like Lascannons would view those as a decent target to shoot at, a Predator annihilator with 4 las shots will probably kill 2 bikers a turn (ROUGHLY!) so they make back damn near half their points in a single shooting phase.

a Single Nob biker with Kustom shoota is getting 6 S5 shots and 4 S4 shots a turn at BS5+. With Dakkax3 that gets you about 3 S5 and 2 S4 shots a turn hitting, no AP, no multi-damage and extremely short ranged. If they eventually get into CC they do have decent damage but 4S5 attacks isn't enough nor is it enough when they don't have any AP or multi-damage...again 40pts. A SM Terminator is 36pts and gets that 2+ save and Powerfist and last time i checked, people didn't take those because they were overpriced and didn't do enough damage to justify their cost.

For nob bikers to be competitive they would need to be about 10pts cheaper and come stock with a Kustom Shoota (12pt saving), so 28ppm instead of 40. And Ork warbikers need to be back down to 18ppm.

At 28ppm you are getting 10 Nob bikers for 280pts which dish out 40 S4 shots and 60 S5 shots a turn at BS5+ which averages to about 18 hits with S4 and 27 hits with S5. At that price with that damage potential the risk/reward trade off is about right, they are still fragile as all hell and will draw multi damage weapon's fire like crazy, but this way each time they get hit with a lascannon or plasma cannon it isn't a massive 40pt loss per wound.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/07 22:01:44


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Its good to have you back talking sense Semper.

Couldn't agree more, or perhaps we could get our exhaust cloud rule back properly.

Either way Nob bikers just don't work. I'm not sure warbikes work either but they can at least be irritating.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/07 22:12:35


Post by: SemperMortis


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Its good to have you back talking sense Semper.

Couldn't agree more, or perhaps we could get our exhaust cloud rule back properly.

Either way Nob bikers just don't work. I'm not sure warbikes work either but they can at least be irritating.


regular warbikes suck as much now as they did in the index. Same issues as the Nob bikers, too expensive for too little damage return. The 6 S5 shots sounds amazing until you remember its BS5+ and 18' range. And you think "ork unit, I should get into CC" but then you realize, Ork warbikers SUCK in CC. A warbiker is just a boy with 1 more wound and 1 more toughness for all intents and purposes in CC, so for the same price you could take 3 boyz and get 3x the damage return. And with the plethora of Deepstrike options in our codex warbikers rapid movement is basically negated because I can have a blob of 30 boyz appear behind enemy lines turn 1 and on turn 2 I can have 2 bonecrushers and 80 boyz appear behind enemy lines (3 deep strike including 20 boyz in the wagonz and 30 more boyz from another jump) Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Warbikes and nob bikers, but they just don't stand a chance in a meta where killing a Knight turn 1 is considered optimizing a list.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/07 22:58:33


Post by: Vineheart01


im literally only using warbikers because my area is casual enough to get away with it.
If i were playing to be competitive/WAAC, i wouldnt even think about touching them. Or half the codex for that matter


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/07 23:12:52


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Yea I’m in a similar place with them, if I go first they are disruptive - with volume of shots and first turn charges they tend to be decent at screen clearing. Because they’re kinda ‘meh’ people tend to ignore them first turn in favour of juicier targets and a KFF can help if they are targeted. A full squad of 12 is an investment though. They don’t do much damage nor are they durable but they can force the opponent to deal with them and give your alpha strike a little more punch.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 08:31:28


Post by: PiñaColada


Same, I often run 8-10 bikers but they only work if I go first and even then I don't think they've ever killed their points back. Earning their points back is a bit of a iffy concept since if they tie up a tank for a couple of turns after they've cleared a screen then I'm happy.

If they dropped to 18ppm I would run a big squad almost every game just beacuse that's 221 with a big choppa nob. Then you're getting weight of shots and speed (and decent durability) but anything over 20ppm is just a tough pill to swallow. Unless they change them to the Troop role, which won't happen. Or if "Billowing exhaust clouds" can be activated at the start of any movement phase instead of just your own.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 08:35:20


Post by: Not Online!!!


I recently found my old Ork army in a box and am now debating what to do with it, basically:

Are Killakanz worth it?
because i sit on a lot of them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 08:43:00


Post by: Waaaghpower


Not Online!!! wrote:
I recently found my old Ork army in a box and am now debating what to do with it, basically:

Are Killakanz worth it?
because i sit on a lot of them.

Not really.
Their shooting isn't very good and can be found *much* cheaper from other sources.
Their melee suffers from hitting on a 5+ and needing a large squad to get volume of attacks.
Their durability is theoretically decent, getting a T5, 5W model with a 3+, but their abysmally low leadership means that you're very vulnerable to losing your whole squad after losing a few models. (Unless you shepherd them with a Warboss, that is.)
They're abysmally slow.

Compared to Meganobz, they're more durable and marginally better at shooting, but cost 20-30% more per model (depending on loadout), can't be transported, and are far worse in melee.

Taking a couple as a screen wouldn't be the worst idea ever, but it generally just pays to bring more boys, more than it pays to bring Kanz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 08:47:47


Post by: Not Online!!!


Waaaghpower wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
I recently found my old Ork army in a box and am now debating what to do with it, basically:

Are Killakanz worth it?
because i sit on a lot of them.

Not really.
Their shooting isn't very good and can be found *much* cheaper from other sources.
Their melee suffers from hitting on a 5+ and needing a large squad to get volume of attacks.
Their durability is theoretically decent, getting a T5, 5W model with a 3+, but their abysmally low leadership means that you're very vulnerable to losing your whole squad after losing a few models. (Unless you shepherd them with a Warboss, that is.)
They're abysmally slow.

Compared to Meganobz, they're more durable and marginally better at shooting, but cost 20-30% more per model (depending on loadout), can't be transported, and are far worse in melee.

Taking a couple as a screen wouldn't be the worst idea ever, but it generally just pays to bring more boys, more than it pays to bring Kanz.



Feels bad: My army was a Insane Big Meks Waagh.

So i own quite alot of contraptions and vehicles:
That said Dakkajets and Burnabommers are decent hopefully?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 08:48:27


Post by: Waaaghpower


Not Online!!! wrote:
Waaaghpower wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
I recently found my old Ork army in a box and am now debating what to do with it, basically:

Are Killakanz worth it?
because i sit on a lot of them.

Not really.
Their shooting isn't very good and can be found *much* cheaper from other sources.
Their melee suffers from hitting on a 5+ and needing a large squad to get volume of attacks.
Their durability is theoretically decent, getting a T5, 5W model with a 3+, but their abysmally low leadership means that you're very vulnerable to losing your whole squad after losing a few models. (Unless you shepherd them with a Warboss, that is.)
They're abysmally slow.

Compared to Meganobz, they're more durable and marginally better at shooting, but cost 20-30% more per model (depending on loadout), can't be transported, and are far worse in melee.

Taking a couple as a screen wouldn't be the worst idea ever, but it generally just pays to bring more boys, more than it pays to bring Kanz.



Feels bad: My army was a Insane Big Meks Waagh.

So i own quite alot of contraptions and vehicles:
That said Dakkajets and Burnabommers are decent hopefully?

Eh....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dakkajets don't bring enough firepower for their cost to make them worth it.
One Dakkajet with all the guns has about the equivalent firepower of the Twin Assault Cannon on a Stormraven. That's not bad, but it's not fantastic either when we're talking about a 150pt model with T6 and a tissue paper save.
The Blitza Bomber suffers from the fact that it pays to deal Mortal Wounds, but it does Mortal Wounds best against large squads, and large squads full of models who care about mortal wounds are rare.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 08:59:34


Post by: PiñaColada


Both the dakkajet and burna-bommers are good IMO. The burna bommer is a bomb in and out of itself so park it all the way back, away from everything in your DZ T1. Then fly it smack ino the middle of the enemy lines, if they gun it down it'll blow up BIG and will be tough to get out of the way of. What this means is basically that you're guaranteed to get to drop both bombs against an opponent who knows its stats since they don't want to risk that explosion. Don't take the skorcha missiles though.

The dakkajet as freebootas or bad moons is pretty darn good, especially if you're firing at non-supersonic flyers. A 1CP strat to get +1 to hit is handy in a lot of cases.

Kans are pretty sad IMO though, they're just outdone by other options, even if the models and fluff is amazing


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 09:02:00


Post by: Not Online!!!


PiñaColada wrote:
Both the dakkajet and burna-bommers are good IMO. The burna bommer is a bomb in and out of itself so park it all the way back, away from everything in your DZ T1. Then fly it smack ino the middle of the enemy lines, if they gun it down it'll blow up BIG and will be tough to get out of the way of. What this means is basically that you're guaranteed to get to drop both bombs against an opponent who knows its stats since they don't want to risk that explosion. Don't take the skorcha missiles though.

The dakkajet as freebootas or bad moons is pretty darn good, especially if you're firing at non-supersonic flyers. A 1CP strat to get +1 to hit is handy in a lot of cases.

Kans are pretty sad IMO though, they're just outdone by other options, even if the models and fluff is amazing


Thanks for the help.

I also heard that the big gunz (the old arty is gone)

i guess i will need some reworking of said list.
Question, Culture is not tied to the warboss right?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 09:10:33


Post by: Waaaghpower


Not Online!!! wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Both the dakkajet and burna-bommers are good IMO. The burna bommer is a bomb in and out of itself so park it all the way back, away from everything in your DZ T1. Then fly it smack ino the middle of the enemy lines, if they gun it down it'll blow up BIG and will be tough to get out of the way of. What this means is basically that you're guaranteed to get to drop both bombs against an opponent who knows its stats since they don't want to risk that explosion. Don't take the skorcha missiles though.

The dakkajet as freebootas or bad moons is pretty darn good, especially if you're firing at non-supersonic flyers. A 1CP strat to get +1 to hit is handy in a lot of cases.

Kans are pretty sad IMO though, they're just outdone by other options, even if the models and fluff is amazing


Thanks for the help.

I also heard that the big gunz (the old arty is gone)

i guess i will need some reworking of said list.
Question, Culture is not tied to the warboss right?

Big Gunz *would* be great if they had been brought into the codex, got Dakka Dakka Dakka, and were about 5pts cheaper. As it is, they're just massively outdone by Mek Gunz.

Clan Culture isn't "tied to the warboss", it's based on detachments. If you have a detachment of Freebooterz, all the units in that detachment have to be freebooterz. If you have a detachment of Deathskullz, all of the units in that detachment have to be deathskullz. (Flash Gitz are an exception to this rule.)
You can take multiple detachments.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 09:12:14


Post by: PiñaColada


Kultures are just the benefits from your clan, so chapter traits/craftworlds/etc whatever they're named in the army you're playing. So they're detachment based if you want the bonus. Only Flash Gitz circumvent this by being able to be placed in any detachment without breaking the bonus.

The old big gunz are gone (index only) and don't get dakkadakkadakka etc. The people in the thread can probably help you find a direction for your army if you jot down what you currently have & would want modelwise.

Edit: Got ninjad


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 09:36:07


Post by: CaptainO


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Yea I’m in a similar place with them, if I go first they are disruptive - with volume of shots and first turn charges they tend to be decent at screen clearing. Because they’re kinda ‘meh’ people tend to ignore them first turn in favour of juicier targets and a KFF can help if they are targeted. A full squad of 12 is an investment though. They don’t do much damage nor are they durable but they can force the opponent to deal with them and give your alpha strike a little more punch.


It looks like Nob bikes can only have a max squad of 9.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Their 32" move range using the Vigalus "turbo busta" strat is very appealing. My plan would be to start them within my Morkanauts kFF shield and beside a Dok. They'd need to kept out of LoS too but that 32" move and 2d6 +1" charge means they could very likely make a T1 charge. I'm also da jumping a squad of 30 boyz. The idea is to target saturate T1.

I won't lie I'm trying to justify bringing bikes because I've a load of converted cyboars from 3rd edition that I want to use.

I get that for the same points I could bring a 30 boy squad AND a 5 x Nob squad but in reality even if I deep struck them they'd only arrive T2 allowing my opposition to deal with my army piece meal.

I'm thinking of running a bad moonz, dread mob battalion with a Supa Shoka Mek and a Morkanaut. That allows 2 units to fire twice (with reroll 1s). It looks like the "kustom ammo" strat makes the Morkanaut viable. Its shooting does degrade either so it would in turn distract from the Nob bikers.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 10:08:04


Post by: PiñaColada


Just as a FYI, they don't move 32" even as evil sunz. It's 30". You multiply the 14" by 2 and then add your additional 2". The whole weapon strength scenario is an exception to that rule.

I'm sure your tactic could work but it's just so many CPs being spent. 2 for the strat, another 1 for the actual detachment. Another 2 for the relic SAG and its detachment. Another 2 if you want to fire it again (or 4 if you want 2 units to fire twice)

I'm just saying, that alpha strike better wipe the floor against your opponent because you'll be pretty dry after that.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 10:21:39


Post by: CaptainO


I've got a Sophies choice. I'm taking an evil sunz brigade. I'm putting 4 x 10 grots in battlewagons and have 4 units deep striking (gota make use of the 8" charge) Alonside that I'm running a dread mob battalion, currently bad moonz, with a mek, weirdboy, 3 x 10 grots and a morkanaut. If I make the battalion mixed (evil sunz weird boy, bad moonz mek, 2 of the grots blood axes and a evil sunz morkanaut) I can get my number of drops down from 15 to 11. This increases the chances of a +1 to go first but I lose the bad moon reroll 1s (and it'll cost me 2xCP to deep strike the two blood axe grot squads). I'm pretty sure this isn't worth it but I'm interested to hear your thoughts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PiñaColada wrote:
Just as a FYI, they don't move 32" even as evil sunz. It's 30". You multiply the 14" by 2 and then add your additional 2". The whole weapon strength scenario is an exception to that rule.

I'm sure your tactic could work but it's just so many CPs being spent. 2 for the strat, another 1 for the actual detachment. Another 2 for the relic SAG and its detachment. Another 2 if you want to fire it again (or 4 if you want 2 units to fire twice)

I'm just saying, that alpha strike better wipe the floor against your opponent because you'll be pretty dry after that.


Nob bikers have a movement of 14". Speed freeks get +2" movement for being evil sunz instead of +1". Turbo boostas strat doubles "the movement". Thats where I'm getting the 32" move. Pretty sure thats right.

I'm running a battalion and brigade so have 20CP to spend (17 after 2 x specialist detachment and an extra relic) I'd only need to use the turbo boosta strat and being honest if the Nobs are allowed to survive in the backfireld for longer that 2 turns I'd be shocked. The supa shokka mek can only be targeted by snipers so will probably get 3 turns of shooting and the morkanaut could conceivably survive till T3 if he's beside the mek repairing him.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 10:34:54


Post by: PiñaColada


Well, you're at least swimming in CPs so that's good. I understand what you mean regarding the bikes, they still only move 30" as I explained above. You multiply then add, weapon strength modifiers are the exception, not the rule. (BRB page 175)

And if you have that many CPs then go for the relic SAG, I personally love that guy


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 11:12:08


Post by: CaptainO


Reading the rules for the turbo boosta I think it might actually be 31" as you add 2" to the movement and 1" to the advance. I wouldn't mind a FAQ answer.

Just wondering how snipers work when it comes to grot shields. I think the supa shokka mek might be a target.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 11:23:53


Post by: Jidmah


My experience with nob bikers is that their shooting is great and their close combat power is mediocre. A nob biker with dual choppas is just two less points than a kopta with big shoota, which has more speed, range, wounds and FLY while matching its damage in combat and shooting. If you put BC and PK on your nob bikers they cost more points while not dealing a lot more damage since they are bound to take casualties before or during combat.

In all my games with them, their main contribution came from their dakkaguns. Therefore I just started using them as warbikers, making my whole army better while losing nothing - quite the opposite actually, since people are a lot less likely to aim big guns at warbikers than at nobz, I get to keep my infantry-murdering bikes around a lot longer.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 11:58:42


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Is you big mek a SAG big mek? If so, check out the relic from the dread waaagh detachment in Vigilus defiant. It's 2d6 shots instead of 1d6. That guy is going to wreck face if he gets to hit on 4's.


About that... I have used that relic three times so far and it did next to nothing. As soon as -1 to hit or invul saves are involved the 2d6 shots hitting on 5+ simply don't cut it. Two hits which might be wounding on fives have not been doing much for me, and I'm not wasting the shooting phase re-roll on the strength roll. The dead shiny shoota I have been running just for the heck of it has killed more than the relic SAG and costs less CP.


The relic gets you on average 7 shots for 2 hits with 1 roll of a 1 and a roll of a 6 which means two rerolls, one of which can reroll a 1 again, overall its almost exactly 3 hits a turn on average. Average strength is 7 as well. I have had amazing luck with this thing, I was about to kill a Broadside in a single round of shooting with it, and than used the shoot twice strat to kill his buddy. Basically earning my points back and than some with 1 round of shooting and some CP


The thing with average is that you are not evaluating how likely those averages are. The SAG is highly unreliable as you can get any combination of high strength and low shots, low strength and high shots, low strength and low shots which end up simply not doing jack against your target. Rolling 6 (or worse) for strength and 6 (or worse) for shots against T7 target is very likely to happen and suddenly you find yourself looking a two hits wounding on fives, and simply not wounding at all on average without deff skulls. Since games tend to be decided by turn three or four, you get three tries at best to roll a lucky combination of high strength and decent shots (let's say anything five and higher), and then not fail your hit or wounding rolls.

Or you happen to face Allaitoc, Nurgle or Knights, then the SAG will simply suck unless you get really lucky.

The SAG is a decent cheap HQ, but the souped up version is not worth 2CP in my opinion.


Interesting discussion but I completely disagree. This weekend I fielded the Souped up SAG in a tournament and it performed wonderful.

I used a Freebootaz Souped up SAG with a Big Killa Warboss trait on the Mek. He most often hits on 4's and always wounds on 4's or better with devestating results. Of course it is not a guarantee (what is when playing orks) but my opponents did everything they could after seeing him obbliterate one of their units.

---

Another thing:

I am thinking of running a list with two Nobs unit of the following composition: 1x PK/choppa 4x Combi skorcha/choppa 2 x dual choppa. Both units will be fielded in Chinorks.

Quite an expensive setup, but I think it might work. At deplyoyment they will hide behind the Killtank so an opponent can't get an easy shoot. From there they race and advance for 24" and unleash their skorchas on a juicy target. Of course the Chinork might be shot down in the opponents phase. But with Loot it! you'll have 3+ orks which are nice in overwatch and pack a ton of S5 attacks when they attack. Anybody tried this?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 12:08:50


Post by: CaptainO


 Singleton Mosby wrote:

Interesting discussion but I completely disagree. This weekend I fielded the Souped up SAG in a tournament and it performed wonderful.

I used a Freebootaz Souped up SAG with a Big Killa Warboss trait on the Mek. He most often hits on 4's and always wounds on 4's or better with devestating results. Of course it is not a guarantee (what is when playing orks) but my opponents did everything they could after seeing him obbliterate one of their units.
I didn't think of giving him the big killa warboss trait. Very interesting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Singleton Mosby wrote:


Another thing:

I am thinking of running a list with two Nobs unit of the following composition: 1x PK/choppa 4x Combi skorcha/choppa 2 x dual choppa. Both units will be fielded in Chinorks.

Quite an expensive setup, but I think it might work. At deplyoyment they will hide behind the Killtank so an opponent can't get an easy shoot. From there they race and advance for 24" and unleash their skorchas on a juicy target. Of course the Chinork might be shot down in the opponents phase. But with Loot it! you'll have 3+ orks which are nice in overwatch and pack a ton of S5 attacks when they attack. Anybody tried this?


The problem with mounting up nobz in transport is they won't get to charge till turn two. In that case telaporting them as evil sunz seems to be the way forward. Chinorks are fast but their limited capacity means you can't throw grots in with them to soak up the wounds when they inevitably explode. A hard top battlewagon with 2x5 nobz and 10 grots means you won't lose any of your Nobz. (and you might even have some objective secured grots to steal an objective left after you dismount) and you even use the grot shield strat to ensure your Nobz get to charge.

A flying flamer chinork does seem cool though. Unsurprisingly it will be errupting in ball of flames though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I didn't think of taking the dread mob battalion as freebootas. Effectively the only units benefiting would be the Supa SAG mek and the Morkanaut. Using the Kustom ammo strat on the Mek would "probably" destroy a unit giving the Morkanaut +1 to hit. However the possibility of shooting 3 times with the Supa Mek if he's a bad Mek(1 extra using showing off and another using kustom Ammo) looks a bit better especially if that knight must die.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Singleton Mosby wrote:

About that... I have used that relic three times so far and it did next to nothing. As soon as -1 to hit or invul saves are involved the 2d6 shots hitting on 5+ simply don't cut it. Two hits which might be wounding on fives have not been doing much for me, and I'm not wasting the shooting phase re-roll on the strength roll. The dead shiny shoota I have been running just for the heck of it has killed more than the relic SAG and costs less CP.


If you're targeting anything with -1 then More Dakka is a must. Not only does it effectively ignore the negative modifier but it'll generate more shots. And it lasts for the phase so you could combo it with the bad moon shoot twice and the dread mob shoot again. Granted this is 6 CP on a single unit but Damn thats going to cause a serious amount of pain. Theres a reason I take a battalion and a brigade. I need all those CPs


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 14:12:02


Post by: wallygator


thanks for enlightening me to this triple combo... that's just sick. 25 lootabomb shooting three times with exploding 5's . My friends are not going to like this .
And if my opponent has too many tanks/transports. the same on the tankbustas. so juicy.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 14:29:02


Post by: flandarz


Yup. And that combo will work exactly once, before T1 becomes "murder all these Lootas and hamstring the entire list".


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 14:31:17


Post by: PiñaColada


You can't shoot three times with lootas since kustom ammo only works on deff dreads, Gork/Morkanauts and big meks


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 15:07:45


Post by: CaptainO


Ya Pina Colada is right. The Supper SAG Mek is pretty good/better. He can't be targetted as a character either. Anyone know what the story with snipers targetting him and using grot shield? I assume the mortal wounds being wounds still go to the grots on a 2+.

I realised that the more dakka strat also allows the mek to move and shoot effectively negating the -1 to move with a heavy. I'm going to start him in the gorkanaut. The gives him an 8" moving range when he disembarks either side of the gorkanaut (which is pretty wide unto itself) allowing him to peek around LoS blocking terrain (especially in ITC). The fact he can't be targetted if I don't go first and it reduces my drops is the icing on the cake.

If there was no need to move to get LoS (say if you were targeting a Knight for example) the Mek can even repair the Morkanaut he was just in.

I'm currently doing the mathhammer using Big Killa. Really like that Idea Singlteon Mosby


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 15:17:20


Post by: Singleton Mosby


CaptainO wrote:
 Singleton Mosby wrote:

Interesting discussion but I completely disagree. This weekend I fielded the Souped up SAG in a tournament and it performed wonderful.

I used a Freebootaz Souped up SAG with a Big Killa Warboss trait on the Mek. He most often hits on 4's and always wounds on 4's or better with devestating results. Of course it is not a guarantee (what is when playing orks) but my opponents did everything they could after seeing him obbliterate one of their units.
I didn't think of giving him the big killa warboss trait. Very interesting.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I didn't think of taking the dread mob battalion as freebootas. Effectively the only units benefiting would be the Supa SAG mek and the Morkanaut. Using the Kustom ammo strat on the Mek would "probably" destroy a unit giving the Morkanaut +1 to hit. However the possibility of shooting 3 times with the Supa Mek if he's a bad Mek(1 extra using showing off and another using kustom Ammo) looks a bit better especially if that knight must die.


You are correct about the SAG Mek being the only one to benefit from the Dread waagh rules. But I don't care about that I just see the 1CP I pay as the cost of the Souped-up SAG. He does benefit tremendously from being Freebootaz however, making him 1,5 times as effective. And the CP spend on letting him shoot twice is thus 1,5 times more effective as well.

A Freebootaz Dread Waagh Mek with the Souped-up SAG, adding the Big killa Warboss trait really is a shooty monster! Just place him in terrain with some grots in front and enjoy the carnage.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 15:47:57


Post by: CaptainO


Using the Bad moon mek with big killa triple combo (More dakka+showing off+kustom ammo) you're looking at 11 hits on average.

21 shots
7 initial hits
3.5 rerolls
8.2 hits which also means 8.2 extra shots.

2.66 more hits
1,4 rerolls
rounding up to 3 extra hits

Each of the three times There is an 83% chance you'll roll a S5 on 2d6 which means that with big killa theres 11 hits with a gun that can wound a knight on a 4+, a 42% chance you're going to wound a knight on a 3+ and a 28% chance you'll wound on a 2+.

Each time you roll for strength theres only an 8% chance you'll get those sweet mortal wounds but if you save your 1 "shooting phase CP reroll" that possibility goes up to 20%. It makes sense to only use the reroll when one of your dice is already a 6.

As I said this is a huge CP sink but the Faq says you can change targets so if that knight is down to 1 wound you can focus fire else where. The wording of Kustom ammo implies you declare you're firing "twice" before you shoot but the "showing off" strat states you declare after you've fired. It makes sense to use kustom ammo first incase you some how obliterate all visable targets so you don't waste CP.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 16:44:21


Post by: flaming tadpole


So was looking over the orks lists Nick and Matt brought. Nick's list is basically the same except he's cut down slightly on the boyz squads to fit in a 3 man MANZ squad which I think is a good choice. Matt's list I found very interesting in particular. He has a similar list to Nick's except Zhardsnark instead of mega warboss and instead of 2x10 boyz squads he has 2x10 kommandos (also has MANZ but in a larger 7 man squad). The strat I found interesting in his list though, at least what I'm guessing he's doing, is for his third detachment he opted to take soup with a snakebite weirdboy, blood axe big mek, and bad moonz grots. The soup aspect is nothing new, but it didn't dawn on me until now when looking over the relics that he could give his blood axe big mek the finkin kap allowing him to take what I can only assume is the "I've got a plan, Ladz!" clan warlord trait allowing him to gain CP back. Anyways, just thought I'd share.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 16:53:22


Post by: PiñaColada


 flaming tadpole wrote:
So was looking over the orks lists Nick and Matt brought. Nick's list is basically the same except he's cut down slightly on the boyz squads to fit in a 3 man MANZ squad which I think is a good choice. Matt's list I found very interesting in particular. He has a similar list to Nick's except Zhardsnark instead of mega warboss and instead of 2x10 boyz squads he has 2x10 kommandos (also has MANZ but in a larger 7 man squad). The strat I found interesting in his list though, at least what I'm guessing he's doing, is for his third detachment he opted to take soup with a snakebite weirdboy, blood axe big mek, and bad moonz grots. The soup aspect is nothing new, but it didn't dawn on me until now when looking over the relics that he could give his blood axe big mek the finkin kap allowing him to take what I can only assume is the "I've got a plan, Ladz!" clan warlord trait allowing him to gain CP back. Anyways, just thought I'd share.

Which type of MANZ are they using? Combination of both types/just double saws/ just PK and kombi-weapons?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 17:37:14


Post by: Singleton Mosby


Is it possible to mix Clans within a detachment? Or did I not understand you correctly.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 17:39:14


Post by: PiñaColada


You can, but then you don't get the benefit of the kulturs. So not worth it in most cases, you do get to use the stratagems though (assuming you fulfill the other prerequisites). Flash gitz can go in any detachment without breaking the clan structure


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 18:07:01


Post by: flaming tadpole


PiñaColada wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
So was looking over the orks lists Nick and Matt brought. Nick's list is basically the same except he's cut down slightly on the boyz squads to fit in a 3 man MANZ squad which I think is a good choice. Matt's list I found very interesting in particular. He has a similar list to Nick's except Zhardsnark instead of mega warboss and instead of 2x10 boyz squads he has 2x10 kommandos (also has MANZ but in a larger 7 man squad). The strat I found interesting in his list though, at least what I'm guessing he's doing, is for his third detachment he opted to take soup with a snakebite weirdboy, blood axe big mek, and bad moonz grots. The soup aspect is nothing new, but it didn't dawn on me until now when looking over the relics that he could give his blood axe big mek the finkin kap allowing him to take what I can only assume is the "I've got a plan, Ladz!" clan warlord trait allowing him to gain CP back. Anyways, just thought I'd share.

Which type of MANZ are they using? Combination of both types/just double saws/ just PK and kombi-weapons?
Just basic PK and kustom shootas
 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Is it possible to mix Clans within a detachment? Or did I not understand you correctly.

Yes, like Pina said you can mix different clans in the same detachment at the expense of no one getting to use klan kultures. On the flip side though it allows your HQ's to take a wider range of relics, stratagems, and warlord traits. There's really no reason not to do it with your last detachment, unless your fielding a SAG big mek that you want to have deathskulls. Most of the time your last detachment is just gonna be 30 grots and 2 HQ's so they're not gonna really benefit much from having kultures anyways so souping them up is actually a good tactic more times than not.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 19:36:10


Post by: CaptainO


 flaming tadpole wrote:
So was looking over the orks lists Nick and Matt brought. Nick's list is basically the same except he's cut down slightly on the boyz squads to fit in a 3 man MANZ squad which I think is a good choice. Matt's list I found very interesting in particular. He has a similar list to Nick's except Zhardsnark instead of mega warboss and instead of 2x10 boyz squads he has 2x10 kommandos (also has MANZ but in a larger 7 man squad). The strat I found interesting in his list though, at least what I'm guessing he's doing, is for his third detachment he opted to take soup with a snakebite weirdboy, blood axe big mek, and bad moonz grots. The soup aspect is nothing new, but it didn't dawn on me until now when looking over the relics that he could give his blood axe big mek the finkin kap allowing him to take what I can only assume is the "I've got a plan, Ladz!" clan warlord trait allowing him to gain CP back. Anyways, just thought I'd share.


What are matt and nicks second names. Trying to find them on BCP.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/08 21:07:49


Post by: flaming tadpole


CaptainO wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
So was looking over the orks lists Nick and Matt brought. Nick's list is basically the same except he's cut down slightly on the boyz squads to fit in a 3 man MANZ squad which I think is a good choice. Matt's list I found very interesting in particular. He has a similar list to Nick's except Zhardsnark instead of mega warboss and instead of 2x10 boyz squads he has 2x10 kommandos (also has MANZ but in a larger 7 man squad). The strat I found interesting in his list though, at least what I'm guessing he's doing, is for his third detachment he opted to take soup with a snakebite weirdboy, blood axe big mek, and bad moonz grots. The soup aspect is nothing new, but it didn't dawn on me until now when looking over the relics that he could give his blood axe big mek the finkin kap allowing him to take what I can only assume is the "I've got a plan, Ladz!" clan warlord trait allowing him to gain CP back. Anyways, just thought I'd share.


What are matt and nicks second names. Trying to find them on BCP.
Nick Nanavati and Matthew Root.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/10 13:51:35


Post by: CaptainO


Cheers.

Just looking through the top lists. Even with some of the "low number of drops" list they're averaging around 14/15 drops. Going forward id look at leaving my second squad of 30 boyz till last and then putting them in a telaporta if it resulted in me getting a +1 to go first. Obviously the advantage cant be taken in isolation but what are peoples thoughts on the return of spending 2CP to get the +1 to go first. P


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/10 14:03:14


Post by: PiñaColada


Putting something in a tellyporta still counts as a drop though. Overall amount of drops matter way less now if you're playin with CA 2019.

I am a bit sad that we don't have any Orks in the top 8 at LVO but I'm also not surprised. Several players (really good ones at that) ran green tides because they're so anti-meta but even then it didn't really work. Had boyz still been priced at 6ppm that tactic might actually have worked..


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/10 16:43:40


Post by: flaming tadpole


Ya unfortunately Nick and Steve both lossed to the same flyer spam soup player. Kind of an anticlimactic ending really. Everyone going into thinking maybe we'll finally see a more diverse top 8 and it ends up being probably the most monotonous top 8 ever lol. One things for sure though, 99% of people are gonna be rooting for the lone Tau player to win it all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually looks like the 9th place chaos daemon player ended up getting in to the 8 so we have one other player we can root for haha.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/10 18:10:37


Post by: CaptainO


PiñaColada wrote:
Putting something in a tellyporta still counts as a drop though. Overall amount of drops matter way less now if you're playin with CA 2019.

I am a bit sad that we don't have any Orks in the top 8 at LVO but I'm also not surprised. Several players (really good ones at that) ran green tides because they're so anti-meta but even then it didn't really work. Had boyz still been priced at 6ppm that tactic might actually have worked..


Was there a change in rules from CA 2019 /have i missunderstood. If i have placed 13 units and only have kommandos, deff koptas or stormboyz left plus a squad of boyz and my opponent has one more unit so i say im paying 2 cp to put the boyz in a teleporta/ reserve do i not count as finishing deploying and therefore count as finishing first giving me the +1 to the roll to go first. I get that the opponent can still roll to sieze on a 6 but my odds are better.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/10 18:35:03


Post by: An Actual Englishman


I have a lot of time for Nick and Steve but ultimately they finished 16th and 17th. I know I'm not as good a player as either so I need more of a power handicap.

There's going to be more flyer spam lists given their strength at LVO. We should expect to see them. My Eldar bud is going to run 3 Hemlocks in his competitive list from now on.

We need to adapt and to overcome. The top lists seem less reliant on stratagems, for me the Loota bomb is far too reliant on them. Perhaps Traktor cannons are the way forward? But I've seen a few smasha cannon lists and even they didn't do the work.

Honestly I think we should hope for points drops and a strong detachment in the next Vigilus book. Almost all or our units are far too expensive for their durability. Even the top performers. Personally I want to see a 30-50 pt drop on the buggies and bikes should come down to 17/18 ppm. Nob bikes at maybe 25 pts.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/10 19:31:42


Post by: Jidmah


CaptainO wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Putting something in a tellyporta still counts as a drop though. Overall amount of drops matter way less now if you're playin with CA 2019.

I am a bit sad that we don't have any Orks in the top 8 at LVO but I'm also not surprised. Several players (really good ones at that) ran green tides because they're so anti-meta but even then it didn't really work. Had boyz still been priced at 6ppm that tactic might actually have worked..


Was there a change in rules from CA 2019 /have i missunderstood. If i have placed 13 units and only have kommandos, deff koptas or stormboyz left plus a squad of boyz and my opponent has one more unit so i say im paying 2 cp to put the boyz in a teleporta/ reserve do i not count as finishing deploying and therefore count as finishing first giving me the +1 to the roll to go first. I get that the opponent can still roll to sieze on a 6 but my odds are better.


CA2018 missions do not have alternating deployment and whoever deploys first, play first - no roll-off. Therefore drops don't matter at all.

That said, alternate deployments (tellyporta, hiding, etc) still count as drops for any mission that is counting those. Your unit of 30 boyz counts as one of your drops even if you pay 2CP to put them in tellyporta. Putting a unit into reserve for any reason is the same as putting it onto the table.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/10 22:55:17


Post by: tneva82


CaptainO wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Putting something in a tellyporta still counts as a drop though. Overall amount of drops matter way less now if you're playin with CA 2019.

I am a bit sad that we don't have any Orks in the top 8 at LVO but I'm also not surprised. Several players (really good ones at that) ran green tides because they're so anti-meta but even then it didn't really work. Had boyz still been priced at 6ppm that tactic might actually have worked..


Was there a change in rules from CA 2019 /have i missunderstood. If i have placed 13 units and only have kommandos, deff koptas or stormboyz left plus a squad of boyz and my opponent has one more unit so i say im paying 2 cp to put the boyz in a teleporta/ reserve do i not count as finishing deploying and therefore count as finishing first giving me the +1 to the roll to go first. I get that the opponent can still roll to sieze on a 6 but my odds are better.


You will be deploying whether you put them into board or reserves. You can put them on board or tellyporta and it's irrelevant. You just used drop. Only way to reduce drops is by using transports(particularly good to cram lots of IC's into trukk/battlewagon) as those count as 1 drop.

But if you are playing new style(CA) drops it's pretty much irrelevant. Don't think there's any effect for having more or less drops except the usual in game difference in how many units you have.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 02:01:18


Post by: Tauris_Blazestar


Been looking to start into a second army with Orkz and wanted to see if someone could point me towards a 1000 point list to start working on.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 04:36:16


Post by: Grimskul


 Tauris_Blazestar wrote:
Been looking to start into a second army with Orkz and wanted to see if someone could point me towards a 1000 point list to start working on.


That largely depends on what your preference is army list wise. Ork armies do their best when you focus on a specific theme, whether it be footslogging, mechanized/speed freek or dred mob.

As far as basics go you want at least some gretchin as troops choices to give you some much needed CP that helps our army function. Typically its good to start off with a battalion with 3 ten man unit of grots, followed by either a Weirdboy with the Da Jump psychic power and Warboss on warbike with the Killa Klaw relic (assuming your local meta lets you use index choices, otherwise regular Warbosses are fine too).

In terms of Klan Tactics, I would say starting off with Evil Sunz is probably a good idea because as a Klan tactic it is very noob friendly since it passively buffs pretty much all your units to go faster into combat, which is what you want for the vast majority of Ork units. Bad Moonz requires you to build around it with shooting units (usually Lootas, Dakkajets and Megatrakk Skrapjets). Deathskullz emphasizes you to do MSU to make the most of rerolls and is best used for brigades (which is probably too big for the 1k list you're aiming for). Goffs push towards Skarboy and Nob heavy lists due to even greater emphasis on CC, Snakebites give your units more resilience so they work out better for multi-wound model heavy armies. Freebootas require a specific type of army build as they can use Mek Gunz to help proc off their trait which is a flat +1 to hit to all other Freeboota units in either the shooting phase or assault phase when an enemy unit is completely destroyed. Blood Axes also are tricky to use, so I wouldn't suggest them for you until you have a better feel for the army.

Speaking of Mek Gun, they are a star unit in the Ork codex, primarily focused around the very cost efficient smasha gun. Traktor Kannons follow up afterwards, thanks to auto-hitting which make them an ideal choice against armies that have -1 to hit mods to shooting and can stack them like Eldar, KMK give you volume of shots in comparison to the previous two, with risk/reward by overheating, and unfortunately the Bubble Chukka is purely casual, being way too random to consider competitively.

Right now, the tellyporta stratagem is a staple for getting your mainline troop choices of boyz into combat, which work best as mobz of either 20-30 depending on points and what you're aiming for in terms of army composition. Combine this with da jump on another set of boyz or CC unit on T2, and you're forcing an immediate threat in your opponent's face, giving you board control and giving him a tough option in where to go T1. Dakkajets are crucial for getting rid of screens that your opponent might have to protect vulnerable units, between them and the boyz, they'll handle enemy infantry, while the Mek Gunz handle vehicles and monsters. Tankbustas in a trukk are also another good way of dealing with enemy armour.

One basic thing you'll have to accept when playing Orks is that you're going to take casualties, unlike some of the more resilient armies like DG, we don't get through games without getting bloodied, we just make sure the enemy gets beat in harder than we do.





No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 04:49:07


Post by: flaming tadpole


 Tauris_Blazestar wrote:
Been looking to start into a second army with Orkz and wanted to see if someone could point me towards a 1000 point list to start working on.
You can never go wrong with Boyz, grots, Warbosses, and Weirdboyz. The relevancy of pretty much everything else in our army is subject to change depending on CA's and the meta. You can try to pickup a couple black reach sets off ebay, that'll get you pretty close to 1000pts for dirt cheap. Then I'd just grab a squad or two of grots and a weirdboy or two and you'll be pretty much set for the core of your army.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 08:26:34


Post by: Moriarty


AoS Orruk range is a good source of Ork Weirdboy substitutes, as they are thin on the ground in the 40k range.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 12:10:42


Post by: CaptainO


 Jidmah wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Putting something in a tellyporta still counts as a drop though. Overall amount of drops matter way less now if you're playin with CA 2019.

I am a bit sad that we don't have any Orks in the top 8 at LVO but I'm also not surprised. Several players (really good ones at that) ran green tides because they're so anti-meta but even then it didn't really work. Had boyz still been priced at 6ppm that tactic might actually have worked..


Was there a change in rules from CA 2019 /have i missunderstood. If i have placed 13 units and only have kommandos, deff koptas or stormboyz left plus a squad of boyz and my opponent has one more unit so i say im paying 2 cp to put the boyz in a teleporta/ reserve do i not count as finishing deploying and therefore count as finishing first giving me the +1 to the roll to go first. I get that the opponent can still roll to sieze on a 6 but my odds are better.


CA2018 missions do not have alternating deployment and whoever deploys first, play first - no roll-off. Therefore drops don't matter at all.

That said, alternate deployments (tellyporta, hiding, etc) still count as drops for any mission that is counting those. Your unit of 30 boyz counts as one of your drops even if you pay 2CP to put them in tellyporta. Putting a unit into reserve for any reason is the same as putting it onto the table.


Cheers for clearing that up. I've been running 25+ drop AM in 8th (revived my 3rd edition orks upon the arrival of the codex) with minimal reserve option so I wasn't sure. I play mostly ITC so the alternative placement is still the norm (and probably will remain so in the tournament scene). I'd be intrigued to see the CA games in action though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 12:31:03


Post by: tneva82


Dunno. New season for ITC hasn't yet started. Think Reese wasn't dead set against new DZ system. But for example LVO it was too late as season rules had been set long time ago. If ITC uses it it was always going to be after LVO.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 12:38:10


Post by: CaptainO


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I have a lot of time for Nick and Steve but ultimately they finished 16th and 17th. I know I'm not as good a player as either so I need more of a power handicap.

There's going to be more flyer spam lists given their strength at LVO. We should expect to see them. My Eldar bud is going to run 3 Hemlocks in his competitive list from now on.

We need to adapt and to overcome. The top lists seem less reliant on stratagems, for me the Loota bomb is far too reliant on them. Perhaps Traktor cannons are the way forward? But I've seen a few smasha cannon lists and even they didn't do the work.

Honestly I think we should hope for points drops and a strong detachment in the next Vigilus book. Almost all or our units are far too expensive for their durability. Even the top performers. Personally I want to see a 30-50 pt drop on the buggies and bikes should come down to 17/18 ppm. Nob bikes at maybe 25 pts.


More Dakka is basically "anti aircraft strat" with the bonus of exploding 5s. Our other option is more flyer assaulting Stormboyz.... until you come up against a Hemlock and its flying S12 flamer Traktor cannons are designed for flyers. The fact they hit automatically means it negates the Heavy 1. Popping them out from behind LoS blocking walls (all bottom floors in ITC) is the way forward. Its only 3" but thats enough to pop around a corner and take a reasonable number of wounds off a flyer.

I wouldn't hold my breath for more vigalus detachments. We already have 4. Dark eldar and Chaos are mentioned as being on Vigalus so I think they're going to get some.

Points drops are a long way off.

My "Badmoon, dread Mob, big killa boss, Super SAG, Mek, who spends 6CP a turn" (the fact he's so pricey/flashy is kind of fluffy as a Bad Moon) ripped through a Talos bomb this weekend. The fact they have the monstrous keyword, are T6 and hate mortal wounds meant they did not like him.

I honestly think the "Badmoon, dread Mob, big killa boss, Super SAG, Mek, who spends 6CP a turn" is going to be our smash captain equivalent. He's that good. BDMBKBSSAGM is a bit of an unwieldy acronym though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 14:14:58


Post by: PiñaColada


I doubt the big mek build will gain any real sorts of traction but I could be wrong. It's just so many CPs spent and all those CPs need to be generated from something, either grots or boyz. So either its a pure green tide or your just giving up so many easy kill points /butchers bill in ITC.

Stormboyz don't do enough damage to realistically kill a lot of fliers so they'll just move away and shoot. I think a big issue is that the DE fliers are 135 points and the CHE is 161 points, both of those costs are jokes compared to most other fliers in the game. The hemlock is 210 points but never degrades so it's risky choosing that as your target.

On a more fun note, the crazy abbreviation wouldn't have to be his name. The term slamginius doesn't describe exactly what he has in wargear/traits, it describes what he does on the battlefield.
Something like the "soopa mek" could easily work.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 14:58:32


Post by: CaptainO


You're spot on with the downside of a 10man squad of grots. Putting them inside some ITC magic boxes is probably the only option. Then again if stuff is firing at grots they're not firing at your good stuff.

Flyers are definitely an issue for orks. Arguably our "always hit on 6s" means we're not as badly off as AM or other BS 4 guys who can be effected by -2 to hits.

The big mek build undoubtedly costs an all merciful amount of CPs to run. Could be called a "Big spender Mek" .

Not to keep pushing him but The Big spender Mek has the added benefit of being a character so can only be targeted by snipers. I surrounded him with 3 x10 grots. They'll be taking those mortal wounds on a 2+. He's easier to protect than lootas that way.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 15:13:24


Post by: Singleton Mosby


CaptainO wrote:
My "Badmoon, dread Mob, big killa boss, Super SAG, Mek, who spends 6CP a turn" (the fact he's so pricey/flashy is kind of fluffy as a Bad Moon) ripped through a Talos bomb this weekend. The fact they have the monstrous keyword, are T6 and hate mortal wounds meant they did not like him.

I honestly think the "Badmoon, dread Mob, big killa boss, Super SAG, Mek, who spends 6CP a turn" is going to be our smash captain equivalent. He's that good. BDMBKBSSAGM is a bit of an unwieldy acronym though.


On what do you spend these 6CP a turn? And why should you field him as a Badmoon character if there's also the possibility of using him Freebootaz and let him hit on 4's?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 15:28:22


Post by: CaptainO


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
My "Badmoon, dread Mob, big killa boss, Super SAG, Mek, who spends 6CP a turn" (the fact he's so pricey/flashy is kind of fluffy as a Bad Moon) ripped through a Talos bomb this weekend. The fact they have the monstrous keyword, are T6 and hate mortal wounds meant they did not like him.

I honestly think the "Badmoon, dread Mob, big killa boss, Super SAG, Mek, who spends 6CP a turn" is going to be our smash captain equivalent. He's that good. BDMBKBSSAGM is a bit of an unwieldy acronym though.


On what do you spend these 6CP a turn? And why should you field him as a Badmoon character if there's also the possibility of using him Freebootaz and let him hit on 4's?


The Big Spender Mek (thats right I'm pushing for this name ) takes the Big Killa Warlord trait and the Super SAG. He spends 2CP on "more Dakka" which lasts for all of his shooting phase hitting everything (i.e. flyers) on 5+ and also generating shots on 5s and 6s. As an aside this also allows him to move and shoot negating the -1 to move.

As a Dread Mob member he spends another 2CP on kustom ammo to fire again and then as Bad moon infantry he can shoot yet again for the final 2CP. Bad moons also allow him to reroll 1s to hit. If he was only shooting once that wouldn't mean much but since he's shooting 3 times averaging 21 shots (which with more dakka actually means 28 shots) the reroll 1s is awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I did the maths for this last week but I've tidied it up a bit.

21 shots hitting on 5+ due to more dakka =7 initial hits
3.5 rerolls from reroll 1s at 5+ =1.2 extra hits
8.2 total 5s & 6s which means 8.2 extra shots

8.2 shots hitting on 5+ = 2.66 more hits
1,4 rerolls from reroll 1s = 0.5ish
rounding up to 3 extra hits

Total of 11 (rounding down) hits.

Weapon strength is S7 on average.

Against T8 opponents (those knights) S5 to S7 wounds on a 5+. However as a Big Killa Boss you add 1 to wound.

That means each of the three times you shoot there is an 83% chance you'll roll a S5 on 2d6 which means 11 hits with a gun that can wound a knight on a 4+, a 42% chance you're going to wound a knight on a 3+ and a 28% chance you'll wound on a 2+.

Each time you roll for strength there's only an 8% chance you'll get those sweet mortal wounds but if you save your 1 "shooting phase CP reroll" that possibility goes up to 20%. It makes sense to only use the reroll when one of your 2d6 strength dice is already a 6.

As I said this is a huge CP sink but the Faq says you can change targets when using "showing off" so if that knight is down to 1 wound you can focus fire else where. Its not 100% clear if this is also the case with "Kustom ammo".

I'm not denying this is a massive CP sink but the Big Spender Mek is your man if you have to take that knight down.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 15:49:48


Post by: PiñaColada


I haven't really looked at your math but I assume it's right, I can't really be bothered to check right now. Say you do get those 11 hits on a knight. That translates to 5-6 wounds most likely, say 6 for arguments sake, that needs to pass a 3++ invuln. 2 get through and even if he doesn't reroll 1 of them you've averaged 7 damage, out of 28 wounds. He spends 1cp to operate at maximum efficiency next turn even if you manage to bring down 14 wounds or more on him. Even if he doesn't spend 3CP on rotate ion shields you still get 3 wounds though averaging 10.5 wounds, not enough for a bracket. Obviously the weapon is insanely swingy but still.

No, that big mek is not good against IK, it is however pretty decent against supersonic flyer spam.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 15:54:38


Post by: CaptainO


I run the Big Spenda Mek in a battalion

Bad Moon Battalion
Dread Mob Special detachment (-1 CP)

HQ
Big Spenda Mek with SAG
Weirdboy

3x10 grots

Morkanaut

The Morkanaut benefits massively from the bad moonz reroll 1s and has the option of using kustom ammo. I haven't looked into running him as a Freeboota but there are a few downsides.
1) you don't have access to showing off strat
2) You still need to destroy a unit before getting the +1 to hit. This is going to be tough against 3 knights
3) -1 to hit are going to effect you, negating your +1 (especially flyers)
4) My morkanaut (who I take predominantly for his KFF) takes mortal wounds from firing his kustom blasta weapons.

A freeboota big spender will result in 9.5 hits on average if he's able to get that +1. That 1.5 less wounds will save 2CP which could be beneficial but thats after adding in even more variables to a unit that already has a random strength and number of shots.

Don't get me wrong +1 to hit is awesome I just thinks its more situationally reliant.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 15:55:39


Post by: flandarz


I think our best option against Knights is still getting some MANz up in their face.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 16:13:39


Post by: CaptainO


PiñaColada wrote:
I haven't really looked at your math but I assume it's right, I can't really be bothered to check right now. Say you do get those 11 hits on a knight. That translates to 5-6 wounds most likely, say 6 for arguments sake, that needs to pass a 3++ invuln. 2 get through and even if he doesn't reroll 1 of them you've averaged 7 damage, out of 28 wounds. He spends 1cp to operate at maximum efficiency next turn even if you manage to bring down 14 wounds or more on him. Even if he doesn't spend 3CP on rotate ion shields you still get 3 wounds though averaging 10.5 wounds, not enough for a bracket. Obviously the weapon is insanely swingy but still.

No, that big mek is not good against IK, it is however pretty decent against supersonic flyer spam.


Oh ya he's the definition of swingy. By shooting 3 separate times mathematically the swing does decrease. As I said the Big Killa boss means you've actually got a 42% chance of wounding on 3+ which ups it. This is on top of the possibility of getting S11/S12 and therefore D3 mortal wounds per hit. While only an 8% chance each time this also benefits from firing three times (also if you're super spendy you can use a CP reroll on the strength .

I'm pretty sure he is the best ork shooting units against IK (could be wrong). Even a mobbed up squad of 25 lootas (which costs waaaaay more) wouldn't do that more damage to a Knight. This highlights our limited options for taking down knights more than anything else.

It would take a lot more maths but I think he could definitely take a knight down in two turns. As I said he benefits from being a character so can't really be targeted. A prime target for assassins if ever I saw one.

Also against multiple knights he can switch fire using showing off to one that isn't using ion shields (lootas can do the same).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 16:18:11


Post by: xlDuke


I don't think you can use Kustom Ammo and Showin' Off on the same unit, each stratagem allows you to 'shoot twice' rather than 'shoot again'/'an additional time' etc.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 16:20:15


Post by: CaptainO


 flandarz wrote:
I think our best option against Knights is still getting some MANz up in their face.


Ya 100%. We saw the top orks players with these in the ITC. Unfortunately Knights (should) come properly bubble wrapped preventing a T1 and possibly T2 charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
xlDuke wrote:
I don't think you can use Kustom Ammo and Showin' Off on the same unit, each stratagem allows you to 'shoot twice' rather than 'shoot again'/'an additional time' etc.


I've not seen anywhere you can't use both strats together. By all means this could be changed but it won't be until the big FAQ if it does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Make Orky hay while the sun shines


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 16:33:41


Post by: flandarz


Yeah. I know a lot of folks use their Lootaz to take out high T targets and forget they can take down screens too, though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 16:36:50


Post by: Waaaghbert


If you don't want to invest that many CPs you could always use the Deathskull version.

If my math is correct you'd get 3 hits twice (with the shoot twice strat) which would equate for two times 2 wounded with S7 with one rerollable dmg.

so something around 14+ wounds (don't know how to do the math on those rerollable Dd6) for 2 CPs


*Edit: got the math wrong


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 17:04:18


Post by: PiñaColada


CaptainO wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
I haven't really looked at your math but I assume it's right, I can't really be bothered to check right now. Say you do get those 11 hits on a knight. That translates to 5-6 wounds most likely, say 6 for arguments sake, that needs to pass a 3++ invuln. 2 get through and even if he doesn't reroll 1 of them you've averaged 7 damage, out of 28 wounds. He spends 1cp to operate at maximum efficiency next turn even if you manage to bring down 14 wounds or more on him. Even if he doesn't spend 3CP on rotate ion shields you still get 3 wounds though averaging 10.5 wounds, not enough for a bracket. Obviously the weapon is insanely swingy but still.

No, that big mek is not good against IK, it is however pretty decent against supersonic flyer spam.


Oh ya he's the definition of swingy. By shooting 3 separate times mathematically the swing does decrease. As I said the Big Killa boss means you've actually got a 42% chance of wounding on 3+ which ups it. This is on top of the possibility of getting S11/S12 and therefore D3 mortal wounds per hit. While only an 8% chance each time this also benefits from firing three times (also if you're super spendy you can use a CP reroll on the strength .

I'm pretty sure he is the best ork shooting units against IK (could be wrong). Even a mobbed up squad of 25 lootas (which costs waaaaay more) wouldn't do that more damage to a Knight. This highlights our limited options for taking down knights more than anything else.

It would take a lot more maths but I think he could definitely take a knight down in two turns. As I said he benefits from being a character so can't really be targeted. A prime target for assassins if ever I saw one.

Also against multiple knights he can switch fire using showing off to one that isn't using ion shields (lootas can do the same).

Shooting IK in general is just a bad idea. Only a few things will bring them down in shooting and almost all of those options are eldar soup. Doom+Jinx & haywire spam. The math gets real wonky with da souped up shokka but I'd wager that statistically speaking you can do that 6CP shooting turn two turns in a row and it still wouldn't die. It could kill it with no CP spent at all of course, the potential is there, but honestly I'd just shoot anything other than the knight itself. The good thing about the SAG is the high AP, that's completely negated by a knight. Use him to kill the hydras/chimeras/hellhounds/supersonic flyers/jetbikes instead.

Just bring enough anti-chaff and whoop it in CC. Against a castellan you can also tie it up with bikes since they only hit on 4's in CC undegraded, then wounding on 3's and need to roll 3+ on the wound rolls to kill them. It's risky but might be worth the reward.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 19:58:54


Post by: CaptainO


That overwatch though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bikes to eat the overwatch and warboss/psychic buffed wartrike to do the damage.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/11 22:15:20


Post by: flaming tadpole


I think next game I'm just gonna mob up like 20 MANZ with all double killsaws then cast warpath and da jump them somewhere so they can obliterate something worth 1/4 of their points. It's gonna be great.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 06:35:30


Post by: tneva82


CaptainO wrote:
xlDuke wrote:
I don't think you can use Kustom Ammo and Showin' Off on the same unit, each stratagem allows you to 'shoot twice' rather than 'shoot again'/'an additional time' etc.


I've not seen anywhere you can't use both strats together. By all means this could be changed but it won't be until the big FAQ if it does.


Don't have codeX(and dont't have vigilus book period) so can't verify but if wording is indeed "shoot second time" rather than "shoot again" then indeed RAW no 3rd time shooting. Third time is not same as second time.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 08:42:06


Post by: hollow one


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I have a lot of time for Nick and Steve but ultimately they finished 16th and 17th. I know I'm not as good a player as either so I need more of a power handicap.

There's going to be more flyer spam lists given their strength at LVO. We should expect to see them. My Eldar bud is going to run 3 Hemlocks in his competitive list from now on.

We need to adapt and to overcome. The top lists seem less reliant on stratagems, for me the Loota bomb is far too reliant on them. Perhaps Traktor cannons are the way forward? But I've seen a few smasha cannon lists and even they didn't do the work.

Honestly I think we should hope for points drops and a strong detachment in the next Vigilus book. Almost all or our units are far too expensive for their durability. Even the top performers. Personally I want to see a 30-50 pt drop on the buggies and bikes should come down to 17/18 ppm. Nob bikes at maybe 25 pts.


I think your comment on "adapt and overcome" is not fair. These two ork lists lost to the same person who made it to the finals in the tournament, not exactly a reasonable data point to consider a list as "not good enough". Steve and Nick went on to win 10 of 10 in their other games, Nick scored a perfect game round 1 as well.
16th and 17th in 800+ man tourney is good. Their list clearly functions, is a major component in the meta, and will likely give you a leg up in any event you go to. These lists have the capacity to win any tournament.

Your minimum requirements:
Warboss, probably on bike
Weirdboy, 3 of them
Big Mek w/ KFF
at least 90 Boyz
at least 60 Grots
at least 22 Lootas

you have about 300-500 points to spare here. Kommandos and MANZ are fitting in pretty well.

If you leave home without that you'll still be competitive sure, but you better have the reps in with this list to know exactly why you're making the changes. I'm personally playing 15 loota 15 tankbusta, for example, and the rest of my list follows tradition. Much like pre-codex, we are looking to have one good list, the good news is that it's extremely strong and is absolutely a top contender. Just because Orks did not top8 this tournament does not mean the sky is falling, the Loota star is real, buy them and start winning games.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 09:42:59


Post by: Not Online!!!


What is the opinion on Boyz with gunz instead of Choppa /pistol loadout?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 09:47:38


Post by: tneva82


 hollow one wrote:

If you leave home without that you'll still be competitive sure, but you better have the reps in with this list to know exactly why you're making the changes. I'm personally playing 15 loota 15 tankbusta, for example, and the rest of my list follows tradition. Much like pre-codex, we are looking to have one good list, the good news is that it's extremely strong and is absolutely a top contender. Just because Orks did not top8 this tournament does not mean the sky is falling, the Loota star is real, buy them and start winning games.


Problems here being a) eldar soup will be good gate keeper to ensure you don't get top absolute top spots b) this is getting countered faster and faster. Codex comes out, it got then hit nerfbat in FAQ right away. Then comes CA2018 and again everybody else is getting boosts. Vigilant again helps other armies more than orks and imperium will be getting more likely new detachments than orks(imperium is likely in every book). Oh and with GSC even more "loota star removal" buttons out there. Now not only eldar soup but also tyranid soup can automatically remove it. Tyranids do it even better!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:
What is the opinion on Boyz with gunz instead of Choppa /pistol loadout?


I like unit of 30 guns for T1 chaff clearing for T2 deep strikes. Shoot somewhere, try to charge another with your 58% odds. Gives you something to do even if you fail and chaff you don't need choppas anyway. And next turn you'll be dead anyway.

For others I like 10 shootas. Again give something to shoot with when deep strike, it's hard to fit everything into 12" range AND you don't neccessarily even want to shoot the target you are charging least you kill the models in range...Getting 30 into combat isn't quaranteed anyway when opponent uses screens properly and they can be used as first casualties. Great flexbility, very little drop in close combat efficiency(and 2 S4 shots hitting on 5+ can be about equal to 1 S4 attack hitting on 3+. Yes the pistol you might say but again what did I say about shootin at the target you want to charge? I don't usually dare to use the pistols as even 2 casualties could easily mean failing charge and 1 casualty could mean more than 1 ork not getting into combat!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 09:56:33


Post by: Not Online!!!


So my fantasy of a Shoota Waaaggh is actually possibly working, well for fun anyways?

I imagine that people would go with Freebotaz then right?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 09:56:35


Post by: PiñaColada


I honestly thought that the green tide ork lists would be a good matchup against the ynnari flyer spam, since the Orks had so many models. I wonder what tactic they used because going for a tabling wouldn't be impossible if they could move up the field quickly enough. Brandon Grant won by virtue of still having guardsmen that weren't deleted fast enough, something like that should've been doable for the Orks as well.

Overall I would've liked to see Orks do better 16&17 spots are good, but those lists are piloted by some of the best 40k players out there right now. Meaning someone like me (or most likely, all of us) wouldn't make them work as well as they did. It's also the fact that the GSC codex probably heralds a new soup into contention, 'nid soup and the new beta bolter rule is not good for us. Orks did well, but it seems like it's getting tougher moving forward, not easier.

On a personal level I still feel that lootas are a trap, I'm sure 15 of them are performing well but anything over that is just too steep of an investment IMO. That doesn't mean that it's easy to see what "should" replace them. Their potential is off the rails good, hence why they became so popular. Do we have any idea of how the MANZ performed at LVO? A medium-big blob of those buffed up by warpath and maybe a waaagh banner nob + potentially "get stuck in ladz" could deliver real results. But that requires a lot of chaff clearing to have happened T1.

Not Online!!! wrote:
What is the opinion on Boyz with gunz instead of Choppa /pistol loadout?
Shoota boyz are pretty good to put 10 of in your 30 boyz blobs since you're unlikely to get all of them in CC anyways. Thus you're getting the added benefit of green tide/morale but also some shots to put downfield, just remove those guys first as casualties. Big blobs of shoota boyz as bad moons aren't bad either but at that point you might wanna start looking at warbikers because of their high output of S5 rather than S4 shots.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 10:15:07


Post by: tneva82


Not Online!!! wrote:
So my fantasy of a Shoota Waaaggh is actually possibly working, well for fun anyways?

I imagine that people would go with Freebotaz then right?


Wouldn't be going all shootas but they aren't totally worthless junk not worth taking at all.

Though do require tons of rolling. Especially with bad moons that I have been running them as. All those rerolls!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 10:17:08


Post by: PiñaColada


Well, I'm certainly hoping that whenever we do get point drops the Big Shoota goes down 2 points per weapon. Heavy stubbers wielded by admech costs 2 points, those weapons aren't as good but also fired at BS3+.

If that happens I'm chucking big shootas on EVERYTHING


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 10:17:29


Post by: tneva82


PiñaColada wrote:
I honestly thought that the green tide ork lists would be a good matchup against the ynnari flyer spam, since the Orks had so many models. I wonder what tactic they used because going for a tabling wouldn't be impossible if they could move up the field quickly enough. Brandon Grant won by virtue of still having guardsmen that weren't deleted fast enough, something like that should've been doable for the Orks as well.


One issue greentide would face vs 7 flyers is though simple movement and also deep strikes would be pretty much screwed. I have played vs eldar with 3 flyers and basically he easily shut down whole board for me to deep strike and even moving past those pie plates of "can't charge me nahnahnah" was annoying. If he has dark eldar of "lootas die" getting rid of those fliers is pretty hard. And reaching all the softer targets is hard due to flyers blocking way and deep strike behind impossible.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 10:32:20


Post by: CaptainO


tneva82 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
xlDuke wrote:
I don't think you can use Kustom Ammo and Showin' Off on the same unit, each stratagem allows you to 'shoot twice' rather than 'shoot again'/'an additional time' etc.


I've not seen anywhere you can't use both strats together. By all means this could be changed but it won't be until the big FAQ if it does.


Don't have codeX(and dont't have vigilus book period) so can't verify but if wording is indeed "shoot second time" rather than "shoot again" then indeed RAW no 3rd time shooting. Third time is not same as second time.


Kustom ammo is worded "shoot twice"
Showing off is worded "shoot a second time"

You could argue that you could shoot twice a second time. To paraphase barny two times two IS four....

As with all RAW and RAI arguments, in any tournament setting its up to the TO on the ground so my advice would be to contact them before making any assumptions. Last TO was happy that I could fire again. I didn't even bother asking about shooting four times but I guarantee someone will.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does anyone have any links for LVO 2019 battle reps. I can't find them on Twitch and none of the youtube channels seem to have many. Ideally ork ones but I'd settle for some of the lesser races.

Frontline tv did some good ones last year.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 10:40:29


Post by: Not Online!!!


tneva82 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
So my fantasy of a Shoota Waaaggh is actually possibly working, well for fun anyways?

I imagine that people would go with Freebotaz then right?


Wouldn't be going all shootas but they aren't totally worthless junk not worth taking at all.

Though do require tons of rolling. Especially with bad moons that I have been running them as. All those rerolls!


But, but but dakka!

Jokes aside it would be a fun side project not some serious army.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 10:43:15


Post by: PiñaColada


Warhammer TV streamed the LVO 40k championships this year, don't know if any ork lists ever made it onto the stream


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
I honestly thought that the green tide ork lists would be a good matchup against the ynnari flyer spam, since the Orks had so many models. I wonder what tactic they used because going for a tabling wouldn't be impossible if they could move up the field quickly enough. Brandon Grant won by virtue of still having guardsmen that weren't deleted fast enough, something like that should've been doable for the Orks as well.


One issue greentide would face vs 7 flyers is though simple movement and also deep strikes would be pretty much screwed. I have played vs eldar with 3 flyers and basically he easily shut down whole board for me to deep strike and even moving past those pie plates of "can't charge me nahnahnah" was annoying. If he has dark eldar of "lootas die" getting rid of those fliers is pretty hard. And reaching all the softer targets is hard due to flyers blocking way and deep strike behind impossible.


Yeah, that's true. You can really deny a lot of plays like that. No real easy solution to fix it either since you can't have scenarios of models ending up on top of other models' bases.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 11:18:06


Post by: xlDuke


Spoiler:
CaptainO wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
xlDuke wrote:
I don't think you can use Kustom Ammo and Showin' Off on the same unit, each stratagem allows you to 'shoot twice' rather than 'shoot again'/'an additional time' etc.


I've not seen anywhere you can't use both strats together. By all means this could be changed but it won't be until the big FAQ if it does.


Don't have codeX(and dont't have vigilus book period) so can't verify but if wording is indeed "shoot second time" rather than "shoot again" then indeed RAW no 3rd time shooting. Third time is not same as second time.


Kustom ammo is worded "shoot twice"
Showing off is worded "shoot a second time"

You could argue that you could shoot twice a second time. To paraphase barny two times two IS four....

As with all RAW and RAI arguments, in any tournament setting its up to the TO on the ground so my advice would be to contact them before making any assumptions. Last TO was happy that I could fire again. I didn't even bother asking about shooting four times but I guarantee someone will.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does anyone have any links for LVO 2019 battle reps. I can't find them on Twitch and none of the youtube channels seem to have many. Ideally ork ones but I'd settle for some of the lesser races.

Frontline tv did some good ones last year.


I don't think there's a reasonable RAW Vs RAI argument here as the RAW is clear. If you've shot twice you've already shot a second time and cannot do so again without breaking the rules. If one of the stratagems let you 'shoot double the amount of shots' and the other was worded 'shoot twice' it would work. I would guess that your TO just wasn't familiar with the two rules.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 11:23:32


Post by: CaptainO


 hollow one wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I have a lot of time for Nick and Steve but ultimately they finished 16th and 17th. I know I'm not as good a player as either so I need more of a power handicap.

There's going to be more flyer spam lists given their strength at LVO. We should expect to see them. My Eldar bud is going to run 3 Hemlocks in his competitive list from now on.

We need to adapt and to overcome. The top lists seem less reliant on stratagems, for me the Loota bomb is far too reliant on them. Perhaps Traktor cannons are the way forward? But I've seen a few smasha cannon lists and even they didn't do the work.

Honestly I think we should hope for points drops and a strong detachment in the next Vigilus book. Almost all or our units are far too expensive for their durability. Even the top performers. Personally I want to see a 30-50 pt drop on the buggies and bikes should come down to 17/18 ppm. Nob bikes at maybe 25 pts.


I think your comment on "adapt and overcome" is not fair. These two ork lists lost to the same person who made it to the finals in the tournament, not exactly a reasonable data point to consider a list as "not good enough". Steve and Nick went on to win 10 of 10 in their other games, Nick scored a perfect game round 1 as well.
16th and 17th in 800+ man tourney is good. Their list clearly functions, is a major component in the meta, and will likely give you a leg up in any event you go to. These lists have the capacity to win any tournament.

Your minimum requirements:
Warboss, probably on bike
Weirdboy, 3 of them
Big Mek w/ KFF
at least 90 Boyz
at least 60 Grots
at least 22 Lootas

you have about 300-500 points to spare here. Kommandos and MANZ are fitting in pretty well.

If you leave home without that you'll still be competitive sure, but you better have the reps in with this list to know exactly why you're making the changes. I'm personally playing 15 loota 15 tankbusta, for example, and the rest of my list follows tradition. Much like pre-codex, we are looking to have one good list, the good news is that it's extremely strong and is absolutely a top contender. Just because Orks did not top8 this tournament does not mean the sky is falling, the Loota star is real, buy them and start winning games.


I agree with you that we're in a pretty good spot and have at least one good build. Being realistic we've had the codex for 3 months max so we definitely have a couple of builds that haven't been explored yet.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in terms of Index units. Some tournaments have already stopped using them. As you said Bike boss and non Mega armoured Mek with KFF are featured in 90% of builds. I've switched to Morkanauts and Wartrikes in an effort to future proof but the removal of index units will effect us more than most other armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
xlDuke wrote:
Spoiler:
CaptainO wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
xlDuke wrote:
I don't think you can use Kustom Ammo and Showin' Off on the same unit, each stratagem allows you to 'shoot twice' rather than 'shoot again'/'an additional time' etc.


I've not seen anywhere you can't use both strats together. By all means this could be changed but it won't be until the big FAQ if it does.


Don't have codeX(and dont't have vigilus book period) so can't verify but if wording is indeed "shoot second time" rather than "shoot again" then indeed RAW no 3rd time shooting. Third time is not same as second time.


Kustom ammo is worded "shoot twice"
Showing off is worded "shoot a second time"

You could argue that you could shoot twice a second time. To paraphase barny two times two IS four....

As with all RAW and RAI arguments, in any tournament setting its up to the TO on the ground so my advice would be to contact them before making any assumptions. Last TO was happy that I could fire again. I didn't even bother asking about shooting four times but I guarantee someone will.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does anyone have any links for LVO 2019 battle reps. I can't find them on Twitch and none of the youtube channels seem to have many. Ideally ork ones but I'd settle for some of the lesser races.

Frontline tv did some good ones last year.


I don't think there's a reasonable RAW Vs RAI argument here as the RAW is clear. If you've shot twice you've already shot a second time and cannot do so again without breaking the rules. If one of the stratagems let you 'shoot double the amount of shots' and the other was worded 'shoot twice' it would work. I would guess that your TO just wasn't familiar with the two rules.


As I said mate its always down to the TO. He was as familiar with the rules as anyone else in that he read the two rulebooks and made a call. We could argue over this till blue in the face (deathskulls) but its down to the TO so before anyone relies on this just contact them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PiñaColada wrote:
Warhammer TV streamed the LVO 40k championships this year, don't know if any ork lists ever made it onto the stream.


Thanks dude. Just looking at Warhammer TV on twitch and no ork LVO games appear to be archieved which is a pity. It would have been good to see what went wrong on the only games the tops guys lost.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 14:49:52


Post by: Vineheart01


bad moonz shoota boyz are pretty good for me.
They tend to delete units i didnt feel like i should have deleted in shooting.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 16:36:45


Post by: Gitdakka


I played at LVO long war doubles. Ended up with 3 out of 3 losses but had some good games.

My experience was that the time was very limiting. They did not use the bcp app but instead printed lists. The printer had malfunctions, wich led to most games being around 2-2.5 hours long

Our list was half bad moons (20 lootas, morkanaught, gretchins) and blood axes (ard boyz, deff dredds, meganobz). Most units performed well at least 2 games. Meganobz saw close combat all games, but it was sad that 9 meganoz fighting twice could only manage like 10 wounds against the shiled/lance knight with it's 3+ iv save. The double tapping morkanaught was probably not worth it as it is a joke against any knight variants.

Next time we will try to make a list that is optimized for speed play. Game 2 vs guard we only managed 2/5 rounds. (We clocked our round one at 25 min, the only game we got first turn initiative)

[Thumb - IMG_20190210_151252.jpg]


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 16:56:48


Post by: CaptainO


Gitdakka wrote:
I played at LVO long war doubles. Ended up with 3 out of 3 losses but had some good games.

My experience was that the time was very limiting. They did not use the bcp app but instead printed lists. The printer had malfunctions, wich led to most games being around 2-2.5 hours long

Our list was half bad moons (20 lootas, morkanaught, gretchins) and blood axes (ard boyz, deff dredds, meganobz). Most units performed well at least 2 games. Meganobz saw close combat all games, but it was sad that 9 meganoz fighting twice could only manage like 10 wounds against the shiled/lance knight with it's 3+ iv save. The double tapping morkanaught was probably not worth it as it is a joke against any knight variants.

Next time we will try to make a list that is optimized for speed play. Game 2 vs guard we only managed 2/5 rounds. (We clocked our round one at 25 min, the only game we got first turn initiative)


I bet you had a blast. Fairly fluffy army too. Playing orks with a chess clock solo is tough (but doable with practice). Playing doubles would definitely take some practice games.

By shield/lance knight are you talking about an eldar titan? The Castellans 3++ only counts against ranged so the Mega nobs should have gone through his armour saves.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 16:59:56


Post by: PiñaColada


Sounds like a fun experience.

And no, he's talking about the FW lancer knight I reckon CaptainO


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 17:08:26


Post by: Gitdakka


Yeah we had a great time. And yes it was the imperial forge world titan. Rotate strat gave 4+iv against shooting and and 3+iv in cc, 28 wounds, t8 if I recall correctly


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 17:12:38


Post by: CaptainO


Gitdakka wrote:
Yeah we had a great time. And yes it was the imperial forge world titan. Rotate strat gave 4+iv against shooting and and 3+iv in cc, 28 wounds, t8 if I recall correctly


Ouch they are crazy stats especially against orks. How many points is that guy?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 17:26:33


Post by: tneva82


420. Shooting wise 18" 6 shots at 6/-1/d3. Nasty in h2h, shooting fairly wimp. Also think he need 3 superheavies to get lance character for warlord trait etc. Strategems for warlord traits and relics don't work on cerastus so no solo lance with those


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 17:28:14


Post by: PiñaColada


CaptainO wrote:
Gitdakka wrote:
Yeah we had a great time. And yes it was the imperial forge world titan. Rotate strat gave 4+iv against shooting and and 3+iv in cc, 28 wounds, t8 if I recall correctly


Ouch they are crazy stats especially against orks. How many points is that guy?

He's 420 points if I remember correctly. Forgeworld is a lawless wasteland when it comes to rules and should have those privileges redacted if it were up to me. I'm not sure if it's as good as a Gallant but the Lancer has removed really the only big weakness soup IK has, vulnerability to melee


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 17:52:58


Post by: tneva82


He#s nothing compared to castellan. There#s reasonfw doesn't appear at top lists but gw's do. Gw stuff is the broken one


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 17:53:20


Post by: Vineheart01


go figure the only FW stuff thats actually strong is imperial...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 18:09:23


Post by: PiñaColada


I don't really think the Lancer is overpowered but it's a chore to face. IK are super durable in the shooting phase so going in CC to bring the pain is always a decent bet. The Lancer brings the anti-fun element of IK shooting durability into CC.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 18:19:03


Post by: Gitdakka


Before we were wiped out round 3, I think we got it down to its lowest bracket but it still had like 8 wounds, after ~50 power klaw attacks and ~200 loota shots. It only killed all our characters, 10 lootas, 1 mega nob, and the morkanaught and a deff dredd. The rest were killed by doomsday archs, hellverins and 10 destroyers. These guys won the sportsmanship award somehow. Sure they were nice guys but i dont think it was a friendly list.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 18:50:22


Post by: flandarz


Isn't Zhad and the Chinork FW units? Zhad isn't shabby, and a Chinork can be really useful.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 19:19:02


Post by: tneva82


Gitdakka wrote:
Before we were wiped out round 3, I think we got it down to its lowest bracket but it still had like 8 wounds, after ~50 power klaw attacks and ~200 loota shots. It only killed all our characters, 10 lootas, 1 mega nob, and the morkanaught and a deff dredd. The rest were killed by doomsday archs, hellverins and 10 destroyers. These guys won the sportsmanship award somehow. Sure they were nice guys but i dont think it was a friendly list.


So basically you are saying all knights should be just banned or it's not friendly? There's far worse knights in codex and ones that can get warlord trait/relic without having 2 other tag along(and can have more than 1 with relic/trait to begin with!) and are more deadly.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 20:16:52


Post by: Gitdakka


tneva82 wrote:
Gitdakka wrote:
Before we were wiped out round 3, I think we got it down to its lowest bracket but it still had like 8 wounds, after ~50 power klaw attacks and ~200 loota shots. It only killed all our characters, 10 lootas, 1 mega nob, and the morkanaught and a deff dredd. The rest were killed by doomsday archs, hellverins and 10 destroyers. These guys won the sportsmanship award somehow. Sure they were nice guys but i dont think it was a friendly list.


So basically you are saying all knights should be just banned or it's not friendly? There's far worse knights in codex and ones that can get warlord trait/relic without having 2 other tag along(and can have more than 1 with relic/trait to begin with!) and are more deadly.


I said nothing about banning knights.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 20:32:08


Post by: flandarz


I'd like to see more options for taking them down, but I don't really mind Knights.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 20:32:41


Post by: Vineheart01


The only single knights ive ever had seemingly unfair problems with is the FW ones or the Castellan/Valiant. They all feel horribly underpriced for what they do. The others dont bug me that much.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 20:37:27


Post by: Gitdakka


I think the only reliable way to kill/hurt them for orks would be mortal wounds. So lots of boyz to buff up 3 weirdboyz smites or madly charging in gunwagons into knights to get those easy explosions when they inevitably die. Or ignore them/shoot the non rotating one if they have more than one knight


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 22:24:15


Post by: Eihnlazer


So many peeps at the LVO thought orks were gonna win it, but tbf I always had my doubts.


Dark Eldar and Castellan Soup is just too good againgst orks atm for them to win it all.


I took nidz which was dumb because orks just do everything nids do and better, but I had a blast an it was a great weekend.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/12 22:29:10


Post by: Vineheart01


lot of locals seem to think orks are top tier for some reason.
I like the description i heard in here a few pages ago: Orks arent great per-say, theyre gatekeepers. Their tactics are cripplingly good until you find a way to deal with them and they fold like wet paper.
And yeah i thought about getting a nid army at some point until i realized i'd play them the exact same way i play orks lol...and be weaker at it...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 00:14:31


Post by: Dr.Duck


What were the lists that made it fairly far at the lVO? Same loota star?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 01:19:48


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


So I was looking at conversions online for inspiration with my own two wip conversions, mekadread and bonekrusha, when I came across som buggy conversions. It got me thinking. I hadn't seen any index buggies this edition and decided to take a look at the rules. I decided I want to try them out.

Now for me they would fulfill a role similar but different to tankbustaz. I would take them as rokkit buggies and as evil sunz. This would give me the ability to move and advance them and still shoot the rokkit a with no shooting penalty and with my wartrike can charge. So they would have a minimum of 17" movement before charging. When they charge I would use them against things like guardsmen and screens. they have a decent profile with T5 5W 4A and 4+Sv. So my unit of 5 would be 25 wounds which is nice. Has anyone had experience using them? And did you use them in outflank or move them up the board.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 03:41:22


Post by: flaming tadpole


To be fair, Nick's only loss was by one measly point to the 2nd place eldar flyer spam guy who then proceeded to completely steamroll his first two opponents in the top 8 before losing a close game to Grant. Apart from Grant, Nick and Steve's orks were actually the only people who gave him any sort of trouble and either one of them could have easily made the top 8. I'm not saying orks are top tier because frankly no mono faction has a shot with the craziness of soup right now. As far as mono factions go though I would put them somewhere in the top(ish) tier or at the very least we have the capability to compete with the top tier mono factions


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 07:45:38


Post by: Moriarty


As for Index buggies, a unit of five has a large footprint - sometimes I struggled to use their 36” range on BS’s on a 4’ table. Outflanking is dependant on terrain. Can you fit all five on a board edge 9” from the enemy? You might be right about running them as Sunz with Rokkit. Though 10 shots with two or three hits giving six wounds max won’t upset many vehicles. Feedback with your experience, do.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 08:04:59


Post by: PiñaColada


Index buggies don't have dakkadakkadakka do they? Meaning the can be made to miss with negative modifiers and can't generate extra shots.

I have plenty of old buggy conversions but I think that if you want to use the old rokkit buggies then converting them to deffkoptas might be an idea worth looking into. Rokkit deffkoptas aren't great because the rack of rokkits is a bit too expensive but at least they're really quick and have fly.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 08:21:47


Post by: tneva82


Gitdakka wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Gitdakka wrote:
Before we were wiped out round 3, I think we got it down to its lowest bracket but it still had like 8 wounds, after ~50 power klaw attacks and ~200 loota shots. It only killed all our characters, 10 lootas, 1 mega nob, and the morkanaught and a deff dredd. The rest were killed by doomsday archs, hellverins and 10 destroyers. These guys won the sportsmanship award somehow. Sure they were nice guys but i dont think it was a friendly list.


So basically you are saying all knights should be just banned or it's not friendly? There's far worse knights in codex and ones that can get warlord trait/relic without having 2 other tag along(and can have more than 1 with relic/trait to begin with!) and are more deadly.


I said nothing about banning knights.


Well if lancer is not friendly list then any knight in the list is not friendly list. Lancer isn't even close to being best one.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 09:15:07


Post by: CaptainO


tneva82 wrote:
Gitdakka wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Gitdakka wrote:
Before we were wiped out round 3, I think we got it down to its lowest bracket but it still had like 8 wounds, after ~50 power klaw attacks and ~200 loota shots. It only killed all our characters, 10 lootas, 1 mega nob, and the morkanaught and a deff dredd. The rest were killed by doomsday archs, hellverins and 10 destroyers. These guys won the sportsmanship award somehow. Sure they were nice guys but i dont think it was a friendly list.


So basically you are saying all knights should be just banned or it's not friendly? There's far worse knights in codex and ones that can get warlord trait/relic without having 2 other tag along(and can have more than 1 with relic/trait to begin with!) and are more deadly.


I said nothing about banning knights.


Well if lancer is not friendly list then any knight in the list is not friendly list. Lancer isn't even close to being best one.


Doubles is normally a much more chilled out affair where a WAAC attittude would be strange. The combined list those other dudes brought doesn't scream "friendly game", nor is it fluffy. If you organised a friendly game at your local and the other guy rocked up with a FW knight it would raise eyebrows.

On a completely different note does anyone have any links/images of converted 2nd edition gretchin. My army runs 70 grots and about 20 are the old school single pose model. Just wondering if anyone has any examples of how to spice them up.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 09:32:00


Post by: Gitdakka


CaptainO wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Gitdakka wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Gitdakka wrote:
Before we were wiped out round 3, I think we got it down to its lowest bracket but it still had like 8 wounds, after ~50 power klaw attacks and ~200 loota shots. It only killed all our characters, 10 lootas, 1 mega nob, and the morkanaught and a deff dredd. The rest were killed by doomsday archs, hellverins and 10 destroyers. These guys won the sportsmanship award somehow. Sure they were nice guys but i dont think it was a friendly list.


So basically you are saying all knights should be just banned or it's not friendly? There's far worse knights in codex and ones that can get warlord trait/relic without having 2 other tag along(and can have more than 1 with relic/trait to begin with!) and are more deadly.


I said nothing about banning knights.


Well if lancer is not friendly list then any knight in the list is not friendly list. Lancer isn't even close to being best one.


Doubles is normally a much more chilled out affair where a WAAC attittude would be strange. The combined list those other dudes brought doesn't scream "friendly game", nor is it fluffy. If you organised a friendly game at your local and the other guy rocked up with a FW knight it would raise eyebrows.

On a completely different note does anyone have any links/images of converted 2nd edition gretchin. My army runs 70 grots and about 20 are the old school single pose model. Just wondering if anyone has any examples of how to spice them up.


Right that was my point. They had some cool fluff though. It was themed around the void dragon taking controll of the imperial machines


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 09:39:15


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


PiñaColada wrote:
Index buggies don't have dakkadakkadakka do they? Meaning the can be made to miss with negative modifiers and can't generate extra shots.

I have plenty of old buggy conversions but I think that if you want to use the old rokkit buggies then converting them to deffkoptas might be an idea worth looking into. Rokkit deffkoptas aren't great because the rack of rokkits is a bit too expensive but at least they're really quick and have fly.


I have like 15 koptas and was going to convert the buggies from some of them. Or from old gorkamorka trukks. I know the buggies aren't optimal but I think I'll give them a try. My opponents thus far have been very surprised by the speed of my speed freaks. I have had first turn charges on more than one occasion. So I guess at this point it would be because I think they are cool.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 09:50:13


Post by: Ratius


On a completely different note does anyone have any links/images of converted 2nd edition gretchin. My army runs 70 grots and about 20 are the old school single pose model. Just wondering if anyone has any examples of how to spice them up.


These arent mine but thought they were adorable






No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 10:58:12


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Vineheart01 wrote:
go figure the only FW stuff thats actually strong is imperial...


I'll be taking a Killtank to the next local tournament. Kitting it out with a Bursta kannon and 3x twin big shootas. I don't expect it to work wonders or even be worth it's points. The gun is decent but for 442 pts a joke. Even though it can hit on 3's being Freebootaz. I expect to plung it into combat now and again for 8 S10 attacks. The nobz hanging on will help it out a bit.

Rest of the list will probably be 2x Chinork carried nobz with combi-skorchas and dual choppas/ Flash gits in a Chinork and 3 smasha guns, 2 Boosta Blastas and a souped-up SAG + Biker boss. I expect to have some fun.

-

I like the idea of Index buggies (amongst the new ones) a lot. But wouldn't it be better to use the Big Shoota ones and use them for chaff clearance?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 11:22:18


Post by: Gitdakka


For the index buggies, i think the skorcha ones are the best
Add evil suns for faster flamer spam or blood axes so you can fall back and roast.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 11:41:54


Post by: CaptainO


 Ratius wrote:
On a completely different note does anyone have any links/images of converted 2nd edition gretchin. My army runs 70 grots and about 20 are the old school single pose model. Just wondering if anyone has any examples of how to spice them up.


These arent mine but thought they were adorable








Painting them different colour seems to be a way to mix it up. I was wondering if anyone has swapped out heads from the new gretchin pack or was able to swap out the weapon.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 13:42:57


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


I have done head swaps. Only a little conversion needed


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 15:03:56


Post by: Vineheart01


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
go figure the only FW stuff thats actually strong is imperial...


I'll be taking a Killtank to the next local tournament. Kitting it out with a Bursta kannon and 3x twin big shootas. I don't expect it to work wonders or even be worth it's points. The gun is decent but for 442 pts a joke. Even though it can hit on 3's being Freebootaz. I expect to plung it into combat now and again for 8 S10 attacks. The nobz hanging on will help it out a bit.

Rest of the list will probably be 2x Chinork carried nobz with combi-skorchas and dual choppas/ Flash gits in a Chinork and 3 smasha guns, 2 Boosta Blastas and a souped-up SAG + Biker boss. I expect to have some fun.

-

I like the idea of Index buggies (amongst the new ones) a lot. But wouldn't it be better to use the Big Shoota ones and use them for chaff clearance?


Didnt the killtank get overhyked in points because initially it was something silly like ~300pts?
I remember people gawking at killtanks and then CA superjacked their price and now nobody likes them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 17:09:47


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Vineheart01 wrote:

Didnt the killtank get overhyked in points because initially it was something silly like ~300pts?
I remember people gawking at killtanks and then CA superjacked their price and now nobody likes them.


That's correct. Mine wasn't painted yet so I never used it before.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/13 18:31:51


Post by: CaptainO


TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
I have done head swaps. Only a little conversion needed
could you show/send a pic when you can.

C


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 03:04:47


Post by: Dr.Duck


 Vineheart01 wrote:
 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
go figure the only FW stuff thats actually strong is imperial...


I'll be taking a Killtank to the next local tournament. Kitting it out with a Bursta kannon and 3x twin big shootas. I don't expect it to work wonders or even be worth it's points. The gun is decent but for 442 pts a joke. Even though it can hit on 3's being Freebootaz. I expect to plung it into combat now and again for 8 S10 attacks. The nobz hanging on will help it out a bit.

Rest of the list will probably be 2x Chinork carried nobz with combi-skorchas and dual choppas/ Flash gits in a Chinork and 3 smasha guns, 2 Boosta Blastas and a souped-up SAG + Biker boss. I expect to have some fun.

-

I like the idea of Index buggies (amongst the new ones) a lot. But wouldn't it be better to use the Big Shoota ones and use them for chaff clearance?


Didnt the killtank get overhyked in points because initially it was something silly like ~300pts?
I remember people gawking at killtanks and then CA superjacked their price and now nobody likes them.


Sure but arent land raiders like ~300 points now?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 04:22:24


Post by: Vineheart01


Killtank WAS that cheap.
Gigashoota + twin big shoota + 2 rack o rockets was 311pts. That was kinda absurd even if it lacked invul saves and still had a 4+ armor.

Now its 472pts for that same loadout. And thats roughly the Gargsquig cost, which is significantly tougher and still dies pretty easy when other titanics are involved.

The fact that its a longer ranged gunboat is about the only reason it lives. Heck i almost dont even want rokkits on it because its 48pts for 4 rokkits that for the most part i wont get against targets i want it for, except a knight or something melee thats gonna break that 24" gap super fast anyway.
Which goes into why i think any of the non-"basic" knights are kinda on the ridiculous side. They all cost roughly the same as the killtank and are way deadlier/harder to kill, or only cost ~200pts more for EASILY twice the dakka power and still harder to kill


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 07:10:50


Post by: Dr.Duck


I feel you but what im saying is that Kill tanks should probably be costed similarly to a LR. All said and done maybe 50 or so points more. I seriously doubt that balancing FW is anywhere near a priority for GW, Probably better that they dont do it.

Just saying it would be nice to have a proper tank.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 08:17:54


Post by: tneva82


Don't count gw on balancing fw models. We are talking about company that upped automatic i lose models by 33% or gave unit not seen even near top tables 300% price hike. They want gamers to spend money on higher profit margin plastic models leaving less profit margin resin for collectors who wouldn't be spamming same model anyway


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 09:33:04


Post by: hollow one


tneva82 wrote:
 hollow one wrote:

If you leave home without that you'll still be competitive sure, but you better have the reps in with this list to know exactly why you're making the changes. I'm personally playing 15 loota 15 tankbusta, for example, and the rest of my list follows tradition. Much like pre-codex, we are looking to have one good list, the good news is that it's extremely strong and is absolutely a top contender. Just because Orks did not top8 this tournament does not mean the sky is falling, the Loota star is real, buy them and start winning games.


Problems here being a) eldar soup will be good gate keeper to ensure you don't get top absolute top spots b) this is getting countered faster and faster. Codex comes out, it got then hit nerfbat in FAQ right away. Then comes CA2018 and again everybody else is getting boosts. Vigilant again helps other armies more than orks and imperium will be getting more likely new detachments than orks(imperium is likely in every book). Oh and with GSC even more "loota star removal" buttons out there. Now not only eldar soup but also tyranid soup can automatically remove it. Tyranids do it even better!


You can't beat everyone with one list, and orks beat literally everything else. We are the literal counter to castellan/guard, grotesque/talos heavy eldar, and other horde based armies like plaguebearer spam. An all eldar flyer list comes along and we have some slight trouble... that's okay, i'd still take that list.

 flaming tadpole wrote:
To be fair, Nick's only loss was by one measly point to the 2nd place eldar flyer spam guy who then proceeded to completely steamroll his first two opponents in the top 8 before losing a close game to Grant. Apart from Grant, Nick and Steve's orks were actually the only people who gave him any sort of trouble and either one of them could have easily made the top 8. I'm not saying orks are top tier because frankly no mono faction has a shot with the craziness of soup right now. As far as mono factions go though I would put them somewhere in the top(ish) tier or at the very least we have the capability to compete with the top tier mono factions


This is also super relevant. For those who dont know, Nick (orks) and Alex (eldar flyer) tied, and they both said they'll play a 60 second turn to define a winner, since a draw is as good as a loss for the LVO. That's how they ended up 25 to 26. TBH that is really not a data point you want to lean a whole list change on. Might be better to focus on the fact that the loota list basically tables most other armies, and has the potential to max points in ITC vs the rest of the field.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 10:01:26


Post by: tneva82


If you want to win tournament you DO need to be beat everybody. That's why you see imperial soup's and aeldar soups dominate. Thanks to being soup they have tools against everything. Knights? No problem. Horde? No problem. Orks? Eat 'em. Necrons? Boom.

Loota star has never dominated tournaments and ever since codex dropped it and orks have been steadily been weakened compared to others and now tyranid soups have also access to "remove loota star" buton. Loota stars days are pretty much over. Not that they were dominating tournaments to begin with. Such a one-click wonders don't generally dominate. Too easy to counter.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 10:57:21


Post by: wallygator


tneva82 wrote:
and now tyranid soups have also access to "remove loota star" buton.


as a ork and tyranid player i would like to know what "loota star remove button" you are talking about? a couple of dakkafexes?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 11:00:04


Post by: PiñaColada


 wallygator wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
and now tyranid soups have also access to "remove loota star" buton.


as a ork and tyranid player i would like to know what "loota star remove button" you are talking about? a couple of dakkafexes?

Souping Tyranids with GSC to gain access to their "a plan generations in the making" strat (ie Vect) to just deny grot shields and shoot them off the board


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 11:05:42


Post by: wallygator


ah thanks. I have not looked in the GSC codex yet.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 11:22:44


Post by: addnid


PiñaColada wrote:
 wallygator wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
and now tyranid soups have also access to "remove loota star" buton.


as a ork and tyranid player i would like to know what "loota star remove button" you are talking about? a couple of dakkafexes?

Souping Tyranids with GSC to gain access to their "a plan generations in the making" strat (ie Vect) to just deny grot shields and shoot them off the board


If the ork player hides the 2 loota mobs, to the extent of deploying them inside battlwagons/bonebreakas, what would get Vect-ed ? Mob up strat ? the lootas could still shoot though (but they won't be very threatening, especially if shooting on a -1 to hit target, or if BWs need to move) .


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 11:31:40


Post by: PiñaColada


addnid wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
 wallygator wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
and now tyranid soups have also access to "remove loota star" buton.


as a ork and tyranid player i would like to know what "loota star remove button" you are talking about? a couple of dakkafexes?

Souping Tyranids with GSC to gain access to their "a plan generations in the making" strat (ie Vect) to just deny grot shields and shoot them off the board


If the ork player hides the 2 loota mobs, to the extent of deploying them inside battlwagons/bonebreakas, what would get Vect-ed ? Mob up strat ? the lootas could still shoot though (but they won't be very threatening, especially if shooting on a -1 to hit target, or if BWs need to move) .

Well if you start them in transports then you're investing even more points in them but sure, you get to shoot once with them most likely. Hitting on 6's though, since the "More dakka" strat would be vected. So now you're investing 425 points for the lootas + 120 for a battlewagon + 63 for a trukk to hit on 6's, are you going to spend 2 CPs to shoot again then? Or the person could just Vect the amount of shots if you roll a 1 and want to reroll.

It's just a lot of points (and potentially CP) for something you might get off once. The damage potential is still there but I don't think it'll be the way forward for Orks

Edit: And just hiding them out of LoS is probabaly not going to work great since everyone tries to bring some weapons that don't require LoS to LVO. GSC can just take Wyverns through brood brothers, no? So they'll fire at the hidden lootas and you try to grot shield and get Vected.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 19:52:23


Post by: An Actual Englishman


I think we need to accept the reality that Orks just aren't that competitive. Its OK. We have been here before, in many previous editions.

The two lists that finished 16th and 17th are held as some paragons of competitive play. A mono Tau list finished higher. Much higher. As did a mono SM list of all things. The Ork lists that finished 16th and 17th were also piloted by some of the best players of the game bar none.

At the LVO this year our weaknesses were exposed and they are (currently) as follows;
1. An over reliance on stratagems to be effective.
2. No cost effective way to deal with heavy armour.
3. Too fragile without strats.
4. Obvious, simple tactics.
5. Most of our units are too expensive to be competitive therefore our unit choices are obvious and limited. Making counter play easy.

I think its pretty obvious given our results post codex that we are not a competitive army to be feared. Yes good players can take a variation of the same build and perform adequately. But if Nick and Steve can't break top 8, I don't see what else can be done without sweeping points reductions.

2 Ork players in top 50 of LVO.
5 Ork players in top 100 of LVO.

We made up over 10% of the meta.

These numbers don't lie. We need something. Hopefully GW decide to reprice our units in the big FAQ or something. Otherwise we sit as a gatekeeper army at best, a poor army at worst.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 20:05:19


Post by: Vineheart01


still significantly better off than we were at least.
6/7th orks were so bad they were borderline unplayable for a long time and completely unplayable for the latter part of 7th. Even in a casual setting where nobody used the "meta" and just did janky stuff while i tried my hardest to bring the best list possible i usually got my face stomped by turn3, wiped off the board not losing.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 21:08:19


Post by: flaming tadpole


 Vineheart01 wrote:
still significantly better off than we were at least.
6/7th orks were so bad they were borderline unplayable for a long time and completely unplayable for the latter part of 7th. Even in a casual setting where nobody used the "meta" and just did janky stuff while i tried my hardest to bring the best list possible i usually got my face stomped by turn3, wiped off the board not losing.
Towards the end of 7th we faired a lot better though because we had a 500pt fw stompa that we could throw 15 meks into to repair every turn lol. I still remember that everyone felt so bad for ork players that the ITC voted to allow us to take them even though everyone knew they were ridiculously undercosted. That thing was fun to play with haha.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/14 21:58:17


Post by: Vineheart01


Yeah and the ridiculous part was that stompa was still "good" at that price, not absurdly op or anything.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/15 11:06:22


Post by: Hogiebear


Hi all, sorry if this has been asked or covered previously but if a unit is in combat can it be Da Jumped out and shoot as normal as technically it hasn’t falllen back? I’m thinking specifically if a loota star gets tagged via a consolidation. Thanks


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/15 12:36:19


Post by: BaconCatBug


Hogiebear wrote:
Hi all, sorry if this has been asked or covered previously but if a unit is in combat can it be Da Jumped out and shoot as normal as technically it hasn’t falllen back? I’m thinking specifically if a loota star gets tagged via a consolidation. Thanks
Q: If a unit starts its Movement phase within 1" of an enemy unit but elects to remain stationary, but subsequently uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, is it considered to have Fallen Back this turn?
A: No.
brb faq


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/15 21:27:27


Post by: flandarz


Maybe we ain't competitive, but you know what we got that the other Factions ain't? Fun. I ain't never seen an Ork player finish a match and look bored. Everything from our models to our playstyle is designed to bring us enjoyment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just remember, guys.

Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/16 04:04:35


Post by: Grimskul


 flandarz wrote:
Maybe we ain't competitive, but you know what we got that the other Factions ain't? Fun. I ain't never seen an Ork player finish a match and look bored. Everything from our models to our playstyle is designed to bring us enjoyment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just remember, guys.

Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!


This!

I'd rather have a fun, memorable, and close game than be a faction known for the snorefest that is the loyal 32 + Castellan wombo-combo.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/16 08:50:06


Post by: An Actual Englishman


That's cool for you guys but I actually derive enjoyment from winning the game as well as playing.

Nor do I find our competitive list particularly fun to play. 80 boys + a ton of grots + loota star? Not particularly riveting stuff there.

It would be nice if there were a variety of viable lists. If I wasn't actively stamping on my own gonads taking the new buggies I painstakingly painted.

Not only is our most competitive list pretty lackluster, our less competitive lists are even worse. My lists fall to the latter of the spectrum. I see players of other factions taking a relatively fluffy list and performing well.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/16 13:14:00


Post by: flandarz


Of course we enjoy winning. And, going by LVO, we're doing alright on that front. I know you said 2 in the top 50, but it was actually 2 in the top 20. 16th and 17th place. If we made up over 10% of the meta, then we're on par with those placements.

Now, if what you're saying is: "I want to win every time, easily, no matter what Ork list I decide to bring" then, yeah, you'll be disappointed. YMMV, but I tend to win at least half of my matches with my pals, and I don't bring a competitive list to the game.

Compared to Codex and a lot of other Factions, we have a few different list compositions that can be "competitive", though maybe not on a tournament level. As a mono Faction, I think we're in a pretty good place.

That doesn't mean I don't recognize our weaknesses. Particularly that our two greatest weaknesses (super heavy and fliers) are top lists right now. And that soup lists are dominating tournaments, while we don't have anything to soup with. But I ain't gonna get my knickers in a twist over it. I'm not gonna just throw my hands up and give up. I'm not gonna pout in the corner and lament my lot in life. I'm gonna keep pushing on, working on my list and strategy, and have fun with a game whose entire point is to have fun with your friends with.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/16 13:35:07


Post by: SemperMortis


 Eihnlazer wrote:
So many peeps at the LVO thought orks were gonna win it, but tbf I always had my doubts.


Dark Eldar and Castellan Soup is just too good againgst orks atm for them to win it all.


I took nidz which was dumb because orks just do everything nids do and better, but I had a blast an it was a great weekend.


A lot of people overestimated orkz simply because we improved more than any other army, we went from probably the WORST army in 7th to a middle tier army in 8th when our codex finally dropped. A lot of dedicated players who only play orkz were actually really good at the game but were hamstrung by having the worst codex in the game, so now that they have legitimate tools to work with our win/loss rate drastically went up, which is why power gamers, WAAC Players like Nick all jumped onto the Ork bandwagon, they thought they could take a codex that looked super powerful and run counter meta (Knight/loyal 32, space elf soup) and win. At the end of the day we had 2 of the worlds best powergamers playing Orkz at LVO and they couldn't crack the top 8, keep in mind Nick WON LVO last year, he won numerous tournaments last year (with Eeldari Soup I believe). And even this guy couldn't crack the top 8 with orkz, now the immediate counter argument I keep hearing is that it came down to 1 game against Aeldari flyer list and he could have won....well guess what? He didn't beat him and there in lies the problem. The guy who won LVO last year couldn't take orkz into the top 8. Had Nick or the other guy taken Aeldari soup or Imperial Soup or even stand alone Dark Eldar they might have won the entire thing again, instead they went with a counter meta army in the hopes of surprising a lot of players....it didn't work, those top lists killed the loota bomb and codex deep strike.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/16 21:48:50


Post by: r_squared


SemperMortis wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
So many peeps at the LVO thought orks were gonna win it, but tbf I always had my doubts.


Dark Eldar and Castellan Soup is just too good againgst orks atm for them to win it all.


I took nidz which was dumb because orks just do everything nids do and better, but I had a blast an it was a great weekend.


A lot of people overestimated orkz simply because we improved more than any other army, we went from probably the WORST army in 7th to a middle tier army in 8th when our codex finally dropped. A lot of dedicated players who only play orkz were actually really good at the game but were hamstrung by having the worst codex in the game, so now that they have legitimate tools to work with our win/loss rate drastically went up, which is why power gamers, WAAC Players like Nick all jumped onto the Ork bandwagon, they thought they could take a codex that looked super powerful and run counter meta (Knight/loyal 32, space elf soup) and win. At the end of the day we had 2 of the worlds best powergamers playing Orkz at LVO and they couldn't crack the top 8, keep in mind Nick WON LVO last year, he won numerous tournaments last year (with Eeldari Soup I believe). And even this guy couldn't crack the top 8 with orkz, now the immediate counter argument I keep hearing is that it came down to 1 game against Aeldari flyer list and he could have won....well guess what? He didn't beat him and there in lies the problem. The guy who won LVO last year couldn't take orkz into the top 8. Had Nick or the other guy taken Aeldari soup or Imperial Soup or even stand alone Dark Eldar they might have won the entire thing again, instead they went with a counter meta army in the hopes of surprising a lot of players....it didn't work, those top lists killed the loota bomb and codex deep strike.


I agree with the idea that the potential has been overestimated, practically no one will play my orks now as even running my old non-optimised lists I'm producing consistent wins. But then I would win half my games when we were still index. Not to blow my trumpet, my second army is admech, and I am no where near as good with them, as I just don't play with them as much, and all my tactics are very much ork based. I've just practised with orks more, know how to handle them, and now they're better tools, my win ratio went up.

Similarly, just beacuse Nick might be a great player with other armies, doesn't mean he's automatically a great ork player. Obviously still an excellent player to do as well as he did though. Just a thought.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/17 01:06:12


Post by: whembly


So... what's the verdict on KillaKans?

I've got 9 of those suckers back in my 5th ed "Kan wall" days.

Also, Scorcha Grot Tanks seems pretty decent for the price...no?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/17 02:48:25


Post by: Vineheart01


Killakanz are in this weird spot. I use them in a semi-casual meta and they do fine but i can tell they arent the best option.

Killakanz would probably bump up to one of our best mechanized units if they'd either A) give them kultures or B) drop them by like 15pts. Lack of kulture is seriously painful since so many of our actually good units are ONLY good because of the kulture.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/17 09:23:58


Post by: r_squared


 whembly wrote:
So... what's the verdict on KillaKans?

I've got 9 of those suckers back in my 5th ed "Kan wall" days.

Also, Scorcha Grot Tanks seems pretty decent for the price...no?


In a snakebite klan, with a fearless Warboss trait they are more interesting, it's just that there are better and cheaper alternatives. If you spam them then you'll still have fun, as will your opponent, but they're not in a good spot.

Ranged weapons load outs are a poor selection of choices, combat potential is weak, and lack of ability to benefit from kultures basically hamstrings a fun unit.

Strictly for fun, mek walker spam games. I take them in games where my opponent usually struggles so they have stuff to pop, and add some flavour.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/17 09:58:11


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 flandarz wrote:
Of course we enjoy winning. And, going by LVO, we're doing alright on that front. I know you said 2 in the top 50, but it was actually 2 in the top 20. 16th and 17th place. If we made up over 10% of the meta, then we're on par with those placements.


Yes, if you take that very limited data sample you are correct. But when you see no other Ork players in the top 50, you note that 2/50 is a pretty poor showing. When you see only 5 Ork players in the top 100, again, not a very good showing. A greater data sample means more accurate results

We aren't doing alright at all. The best 40k player dropped from 1st to 16th, not even close to top 8 when he decided to run Orks and he has said on record 'I don't think I could have beaten the [Ynarri flyer] list at all'.

Now, if what you're saying is: "I want to win every time, easily, no matter what Ork list I decide to bring" then, yeah, you'll be disappointed. YMMV, but I tend to win at least half of my matches with my pals, and I don't bring a competitive list to the game.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I think its very obvious what I'm saying because I'm saying it very clearly. Orks are not a top tier army. We never have been this edition and unless there are drastic changes we never will be. Again, you might be happy playing an army that's hamstrung, but I've been doing that for enough years I'm sick of it now. For the record, 90 Evil Sunz boys on foot getting teleported upfield is not fluffy.

Compared to Codex and a lot of other Factions, we have a few different list compositions that can be "competitive", though maybe not on a tournament level. As a mono Faction, I think we're in a pretty good place.

This is a contradiction in terms. We either have a multitude of tournament level competitive lists, or we don't. I'm not interested in your beer and pretzel games, you can run whatever you like there and you may find odd lists that are competitive in your local meta.

In terms of actual competitive play we have one build and it is now proven to be ineffective. The only other interesting and slightly competitive build I have seen is Ben Jurek's Freeboota list.

That doesn't mean I don't recognize our weaknesses. Particularly that our two greatest weaknesses (super heavy and fliers) are top lists right now. And that soup lists are dominating tournaments, while we don't have anything to soup with. But I ain't gonna get my knickers in a twist over it. I'm not gonna just throw my hands up and give up. I'm not gonna pout in the corner and lament my lot in life. I'm gonna keep pushing on, working on my list and strategy, and have fun with a game whose entire point is to have fun with your friends with.

If you think me talking about our weaknesses and petitioning for corrections is 'getting knickers in a twist', 'giving up' or 'pouting in the corner' I don't really know what to say. GW have made it clear they want and apparently listen to feedback. If you continue playing your poorly performing army without raising issues with GW you have no right to complain when things don't get fixed.

My suggestion to this group is to think seriously about the changes we want to see to Orks to make them viable and put them to GW in the community survey. If we don't speak up nothing will change.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/17 12:44:36


Post by: Gitdakka


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Killakanz are in this weird spot. I use them in a semi-casual meta and they do fine but i can tell they arent the best option.

Killakanz would probably bump up to one of our best mechanized units if they'd either A) give them kultures or B) drop them by like 15pts. Lack of kulture is seriously painful since so many of our actually good units are ONLY good because of the kulture.


I would like them more if they could skip the melee weapon and use double ranged weapons. Kans with dual rokkits or kmb would be interesting


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/17 15:35:33


Post by: SemperMortis


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Killakanz are in this weird spot. I use them in a semi-casual meta and they do fine but i can tell they arent the best option.

Killakanz would probably bump up to one of our best mechanized units if they'd either A) give them kultures or B) drop them by like 15pts. Lack of kulture is seriously painful since so many of our actually good units are ONLY good because of the kulture.


Killakanz are on the shelf, not in a weird spot....they suck, flat out, they suck. Killakanz as a unit personify what is wrong with MOST of the ork codex, overpriced, under performing, low durability.

Kanz have decent durability if you go by T and Save, but you have to factor leadership into this equation as well and their leadership is abysmal, what is worse is that this issue is amplified by the fact that the only way to make them decent in CC is to take them in large units to benefit from the +1 attack, but when you do that you open yourself up to losing several models to a leadership check when you have 1 or 2 die. You have to have a warboss and a banner nob babysit them in order to make them useful which just adds to their cost, especially when both warboss and banner nob could be better used somewhere else....or not at all. And the straw that broke the Grotz back......they suck at dakka. The best weapon they can use is a Rokkit which is itself about 50% over priced, its short ranged and the Kan only gets 1 shot. If it was 3 shots they would be worth taking with BS4+ but with 1 shot per kan at 24in range? yeah no, they are useless.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/17 18:21:35


Post by: CaptainO


So a couple of tactics points from a game i played recently.

I took a morkanaut as

1)i liked its fire power,
2) i was taking dreed waagh spec detachment and liked tge option to shoot twice.
3) I needed a kff
4) its still pretty punchy in cc in the event my opponent came at me.

Id recommend taking a kff mek, battlewagon and a quad kustom mega blasta dread instead. The kff is awesome but the morkanaut can and will be targeted in order to disable the kff while the mek (normally) cant be. The morkanaut was taken down in one round by a castellan and with it my armies 5++.

I say the mek cant normally be targeted as the knights have that strat that all them to fire on characters. In this case the knight took out my super SAG mek. Lesson to take away from this is to always have some grots around your clutch characters if fighting knights. His strat cost 3cp. Grot shield would have only cost my 1.

One cool thing i found was "orks is never defeated"strat is pretty good on the super SAG mek allowing him to fire off one last time. The wording from showing off actually allows him to fire again after death. Id recommend aiming tge first batch at the knight so you can force him to do that " direct ion shield " for 3cp but you can use the showing off at a different enemy unit as per the faq.









No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/17 19:11:23


Post by: PiñaColada


The knight strat to target characters can be avoided by grot shield but honestly, just take a grot oiler and let him take the hit. Watch the IK player lose 12 points and 3CP for a 4point grot, he's never doing that again.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/18 01:08:16


Post by: ManTube


PiñaColada wrote:
The knight strat to target characters can be avoided by grot shield but honestly, just take a grot oiler and let him take the hit. Watch the IK player lose 12 points and 3CP for a 4point grot, he's never doing that again.


Does this work? The grot oiler doesn't actually have a stat line and its model is purely for decorative purposes, codex is pretty clear about this as I remember. I don't think you can use it to activate grot shield but I may be wrong.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/18 01:17:26


Post by: GreenTidePackers


ManTube wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
The knight strat to target characters can be avoided by grot shield but honestly, just take a grot oiler and let him take the hit. Watch the IK player lose 12 points and 3CP for a 4point grot, he's never doing that again.


Does this work? The grot oiler doesn't actually have a stat line and its model is purely for decorative purposes, codex is pretty clear about this as I remember. I don't think you can use it to activate grot shield but I may be wrong.


the grot oilers serve as an ablative wound and you can put it on your kff and SAG, although he should be targeting your weird boys with that strat so idk.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/18 02:54:01


Post by: Coh Magnussen


ManTube wrote:
Does this work? The grot oiler doesn't actually have a stat line and its model is purely for decorative purposes, codex is pretty clear about this as I remember. I don't think you can use it to activate grot shield but I may be wrong.


I don't have an index, but the oiler absolutely has a stat line in the codex.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/18 03:36:17


Post by: Vineheart01


Oilers, orderlies, and ammo runts have statlines. They just dont have any weapons so other than a measily grot punch in melee and the ability they offer theyre just a wound.

Its rather common for Nobz to bring 2 ammo runts as random multi-wound soakers.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/18 12:10:54


Post by: CaptainO


PiñaColada wrote:
The knight strat to target characters can be avoided by grot shield but honestly, just take a grot oiler and let him take the hit. Watch the IK player lose 12 points and 3CP for a 4point grot, he's never doing that again.


Nice I forgot about that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone tried hiding a squad of evil sunz stormboyz in a battlewagon with 10 grots. The +3" when getting out combo'd with the distance they cant move, advance and charge pretty much guarantee a T1 charge (only using the 6/7" turbo advance if really necessary). Nob with powerklaw is to be feared. If they're fighting near the inevitable da jumped squad of boys they're leadership shouldn't be an issue.

Even if the wagon blows up its the grots taking the mortal wounds and the remaining grots can even give the stormboyz "grot shield" if they're positioned properly.

Im really pushing for a substanital T1 cc element. I found the ard top battlewagon supported by a KFF is a tough cookie to crack. Keeping them low points with just a deff rolla means they're pretty point efficient. Now if only there was a way to equip them with a scorcha/flamer without getting rid of the ard case....


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/18 14:11:01


Post by: The Shrike


Has anyone run mono-faction Goffs with Ghazzy? Is he worth the points? Are Skarboyz worth going Goffs? Are the extra attacks necessary? How do you best take advantage of Goff/Ghazzy abilities?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/18 16:11:37


Post by: Frowbakk


Since I have the models I'm tempted to run Ghaz and 20 Mega Armored Nobz and just mob 'em up to Da Jump and roll up one end of the enemy line in close combat.

Problem being; to be fluffy they should all be Goffs, but to make the charge more easily the MANz should be Evil Sunz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/18 16:29:15


Post by: The Shrike


You better have a real reliable way to clear screens too because those MANZ caught out in the open would probably get shot down.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/18 17:42:07


Post by: mhalko1


I agree with some of the statements going on in this thread. I think it applies to both the competitive and casual scene. One of the things I noticed and have an issue with is the CA that arrived after our codex. It lowered the price on many other units from other codices. The ork codex couldnt receive anything with how new it was and when the books were released but many of those changes pushed other armies into better spots. I play a Nid player regularly who runs what he wants as well as I do and we always seem to come close my orks were actually performing better overall and I won more than I lost. As soon as CA hit and he had whatever amount of extra points they got, I started having trouble having decent games running the things I wanted to run. I referred to this thread for extra advice but I still have some trouble. Almost everything he was running got a price drop. IDK if any other casual players ran into this issue.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/18 20:41:25


Post by: MannyMcCoconut


Yea the timing of the CA was kind of unfortunate for us. We'll just have to wait for the next points adjustment I guess.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 03:40:03


Post by: Dr.Duck


Any1 know when te next CA will drop? supposed to be every 6 months right?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 03:42:02


Post by: JNAProductions


 Dr.Duck wrote:
Any1 know when te next CA will drop? supposed to be every 6 months right?


Once a year.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 04:14:15


Post by: Coh Magnussen


So we just have to wait for Orktober again


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 06:18:49


Post by: Jidmah


Yes, though we might see some "emergency" point changes in the March FAQ, since CA2018 didn't cover knights and dark eldar because they were too new. Orks might or might not get some random changes out of that.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 06:47:25


Post by: Oguhmek


I just hope it covers a substantial points drop for the Stompa, and perhaps the new buggies. And please, I would love for Burnas to be made useful, because the models are so lovely...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 07:54:13


Post by: An Actual Englishman


We'll only see changes if we inform GW that we believe changes are needed. There's a thread for discussing points changes to make us competitive here;

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/771599.page

I implore you to write to GW, regardless of whether you contribute to the thread above, because otherwise GW may well do nothing. Even in the next CA there is no guarantee we'll see any amendments unless we fight for them.

Back to tactics, I recently looked at adding a Morkanaut to my competitive list to give it some Anti Armour punch and to provide a KFF my army so desperately needs. However, I also own a magnetized dakkajet and I have an unbuilt flyer ready to be made. So I wonder, could 2 Wazzbomb blastajets actually do the job better than the Mork? For 159 pts (11 more than a fully outfitted Dakkajet) you get a KFF on a flyer, 2d3 str 8, -3 d6 damage and a smasha gun that hits on 4s. You get 2 of them for 10 points more than the Mork. The only weakness is the T6, 4+ compared to T8, 3+ but they have 24W as opposed to 18W and that sweet -1 to hit. Oh and of course the utter lack of a melee profile. But do the melee profiles on Morks get used much anyway?

I'm thinking this might suit my list that has too many bikes and buggies to be truly competitive but either way is rapid.

E-link.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 08:03:15


Post by: PiñaColada


CaptainO wrote:
Has anyone tried hiding a squad of evil sunz stormboyz in a battlewagon with 10 grots. The +3" when getting out combo'd with the distance they cant move, advance and charge pretty much guarantee a T1 charge (only using the 6/7" turbo advance if really necessary). Nob with powerklaw is to be feared. If they're fighting near the inevitable da jumped squad of boys they're leadership shouldn't be an issue.

Even if the wagon blows up its the grots taking the mortal wounds and the remaining grots can even give the stormboyz "grot shield" if they're positioned properly.

Im really pushing for a substanital T1 cc element. I found the ard top battlewagon supported by a KFF is a tough cookie to crack. Keeping them low points with just a deff rolla means they're pretty point efficient. Now if only there was a way to equip them with a scorcha/flamer without getting rid of the ard case....

Stormboyz take up 2 slots per model in a transport so even in a battlewagon you'll get 5 of them if you wan those 10 grots. That's not a real T1 threat. I personally don't think that combo has much going for it.

T1 charges are pretty rough to come by for Orks, da jumping anything Evil Sunz has a good chance of working. Other than that it's mostly warbikers and deffkoptas and both of those units are a bit too expensive for their melee acumen. A big blob of stormboyz could work, but they are so vulnerable if you don't get T1 so that's a gamble. I personally think our best option is just crazy amount of anti-chaff T1 and then let loose everything else T2 when all their screens are gone. That method is achieveable, I'm not sure if enough T1 charges to shut down the opponent is. At least not until we get some sweeping point drops. Happy to be proven wrong though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Spoiler:
We'll only see changes if we inform GW that we believe changes are needed. There's a thread for discussing points changes to make us competitive here;

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/771599.page

I implore you to write to GW, regardless of whether you contribute to the thread above, because otherwise GW may well do nothing. Even in the next CA there is no guarantee we'll see any amendments unless we fight for them.

Back to tactics, I recently looked at adding a Morkanaut to my competitive list to give it some Anti Armour punch and to provide a KFF my army so desperately needs. However, I also own a magnetized dakkajet and I have an unbuilt flyer ready to be made. So I wonder, could 2 Wazzbomb blastajets actually do the job better than the Mork? For 159 pts (11 more than a fully outfitted Dakkajet) you get a KFF on a flyer, 2d3 str 8, -3 d6 damage and a smasha gun that hits on 4s. You get 2 of them for 10 points more than the Mork. The only weakness is the T6, 4+ compared to T8, 3+ but they have 24W as opposed to 18W and that sweet -1 to hit. Oh and of course the utter lack of a melee profile. But do the melee profiles on Morks get used much anyway?

I'm thinking this might suit my list that has too many bikes and buggies to be truly competitive but either way is rapid.

E-link.

I toyed with the dual wazbom idea in this thread a few weeks ago, mostly people were unenthused about the potential but you play a similar list to mine, so it might work. I haven't gotten around to building the second wazbom yet but I still believe that idea has some traction. A fast force wants fast KFFs and the wazboms are pretty decen offensively as well. Let me know how it goes if you do try it out!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 08:18:48


Post by: tneva82


CaptainO wrote:

Has anyone tried hiding a squad of evil sunz stormboyz in a battlewagon with 10 grots. The +3" when getting out combo'd with the distance they cant move, advance and charge pretty much guarantee a T1 charge (only using the 6/7" turbo advance if really necessary). Nob with powerklaw is to be feared. If they're fighting near the inevitable da jumped squad of boys they're leadership shouldn't be an issue.


3" disembark, 13" move, 8" charge, 1" threat range=25". Sure it's juuuust about doable IF enemy doesn't realize that speed. If they do they deploy like 3.5" behind DZ line and you are looking over average.

And really how scary 5 stormboyz are? Just have the proper 30 and accept some casualties with advance move.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 08:23:31


Post by: An Actual Englishman


PiñaColada wrote:
[

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Spoiler:
We'll only see changes if we inform GW that we believe changes are needed. There's a thread for discussing points changes to make us competitive here;

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/771599.page

I implore you to write to GW, regardless of whether you contribute to the thread above, because otherwise GW may well do nothing. Even in the next CA there is no guarantee we'll see any amendments unless we fight for them.

Back to tactics, I recently looked at adding a Morkanaut to my competitive list to give it some Anti Armour punch and to provide a KFF my army so desperately needs. However, I also own a magnetized dakkajet and I have an unbuilt flyer ready to be made. So I wonder, could 2 Wazzbomb blastajets actually do the job better than the Mork? For 159 pts (11 more than a fully outfitted Dakkajet) you get a KFF on a flyer, 2d3 str 8, -3 d6 damage and a smasha gun that hits on 4s. You get 2 of them for 10 points more than the Mork. The only weakness is the T6, 4+ compared to T8, 3+ but they have 24W as opposed to 18W and that sweet -1 to hit. Oh and of course the utter lack of a melee profile. But do the melee profiles on Morks get used much anyway?

I'm thinking this might suit my list that has too many bikes and buggies to be truly competitive but either way is rapid.

E-link.

I toyed with the dual wazbom idea in this thread a few weeks ago, mostly people were unenthused about the potential but you play a similar list to mine, so it might work. I haven't gotten around to building the second wazbom yet but I still believe that idea has some traction. A fast force wants fast KFFs and the wazboms are pretty decen offensively as well. Let me know how it goes if you do try it out!

Lol I just went back and read your thoughts, i was about to ask if you had a chance to try them yet. It seems that we run virtually the same sort of list and so we're running into similar problems. Mostly that a competitive speed freaky list isn't very good at dealing with armour and folds to a stiff breeze.

I think its better than the KFF Mek on bike because it actually has some punch. The Mek on bike has character protection though.

A KFF Mek on foot is protected and way cheaper but ultimately too slow and again lacks AA firepower.

The KFF is only part of the reason I want the wazboms, the other primary reason is their anti armour potential. It's why I had the Mork in (instead of Gork) the list. But these seem better in almost every way except for 2 reasons (as I see it anyways) -

1. They can't melee worth a damn.
2. I was taking Mork in the Dread WAAAGH! detachment so it could shoot twice. There is no stratagem to allow my planes to do this.

Hmmm this is a toughie. On one hand I'm worried the Mork would just get wiped T1 if I don't go first but on the other I like the sound of shooting him twice.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 09:17:16


Post by: Jidmah


Planes have the +1 to hit stratagem against other fliers though - when facing eldar or tau most of their armor has the fly keyword anyways.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 09:52:53


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 Jidmah wrote:
Planes have the +1 to hit stratagem against other fliers though - when facing eldar or tau most of their armor has the fly keyword anyways.

Good shout, I meant to look that stratagem up actually and you just reminded me because I wasn't sure if it only worked on dakkajets. Just checked. It's any flier. Awesome.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 10:05:15


Post by: koooaei


Played in a local 18-man tourney.
1k pts:
Biker boss with relik klaw
Wierdboy
28 shootaboyz + bc nob
10 grots
10 grots
10 meganobz
3 smashas
2 trukks

Yeah, trukkgrots.

Also, there were some odd missions from ca.

First game was vs nids+gsc. 2x20 genestealers, some deepstrikers, mage, gaunts and a dakka flyrant.
Was my first game vs nids.
Mission was to controle the central point with troops.
Orks got first turn, trukks disembarked grots to screen boyz, smashas and a wierdboy killed like 5 genestealers.
In return nids ran up the field. One squad ran a whole 20", shooting killed a bunch of grots, genestealers charged boyz, lost like 5 to overwatch, killed a whole lot of boyz, suffered some return damage, fought again and killed all but 2 boyz. Those had to spend 2 cp to autopass morale and than 3 to return on the field. And together with meganobz, trukks and leaders they wiped almost all genestealers and a flyrant.
Than deepstriking gsc character dropped, moved and charged a large distance and killed a warboss but the game was allready over and orks won 9-3.

Next game was vs deathwatch. Watchmaster, jumpcaptain, intercessors, 2x10 shield vets with stormbolters and additional bike and termie and 2 rhinos.
Was first game vs deathwatch and as i've heard they're the killiest marines out there, i wasn'tawareof how many buffs for how cheap they got.
Anywayz the mission was to controle the central marker with characters and vp for characters being alive.
Dw got 1st turn, deployed defensively with rhinos on the flanks and everything else located along the front covered up by ruins, rhinos and intercessors.
Orks decided to go in with a teleport strike and deployed far from the front away from overwhelming stormbolter firepower.
Deathwatch moved a bit forward, shot 5 wounds away from one smasha with what little was in range and advanced rhinos.
Orks moved forward, surrounded one rhino, one trukk moved towards center behind a huge ruin, another charged towards the second rhino. Smashas killed some intercessors while boyz dropped a rhino down to 3 wounds and managed to lock it in combat getting some well needed protection against return fire.
Dw shuffled around preparing for the second turn and denying good position for meganob deepstrike. Rhino got killed, boyz moved towards the dw line.
Next turn orks went up the flank where intercessors, 2 characters and a squad of vets was. Shot vets but he passed all the saves like crazy. I knew there was an anti-ork strategem that forced our charge range down, so it was impossible to charge 10 stormbolter vets with full rerolls to hit and 2+ poisoned ammo. There was no good place to drop manz, so orks decided to wait with that. Had to charge intercessors and pile in to lock vets down. So, charged, killed intercessors, suffered like 12 casualties with return mellee attacks from shooty vets and than...found out he can simply teleport them out of action. So, it was a mishap for orks. He ported out and shot down all the boyz. Whelp.
Than orks shuffled around to score the middle with characters while hiding from shooting behind a ruin. Trukks disembarked grots and charged up the field to disrupt the backline. Than i started casting and...realized i forgot to deepstrike meganobz in the movement phase. But it was too late, my opponent said, ok, roll 4+ and i rolled a 2. Thus, my 350 pts of meganobz got destroyed as you can't deepstrike after the 3d turn now. A mighty-mighty fethup. Niceeeeee. Well, orkz iz never beaten. I still scored the center amd still had a couple grots and trukks facing an almost un-damaged deathwatch army full of cheeze. Not all iz lost, ladz! Trukk charges a gunline, gets destroyed and explodes killing a bunch of vets and damaging characters.
Dw moves forward shooting down another trukk and charging grots with characters.
Orks still score and boss kills dw master. Wierdboy perils and has 2 wounds remaining. There are still 10 grots and smashas.
Dw charges a jumpcaptain towards boss, kills him but gets killed in return with the last 2cp for dead character fighting again. Marines kill remaining grots.
Orks still score and now a wounded wierdboy falls back behind the smashas that have advanced to protect the last character.
Dw shoots down the guns but the wierdboy remains.
Wierdboy runs further away and scores.
Game ends with orks...winning a super unexpected 12-6 victory via faith in Gork or possibly Mork.

3d game later.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 10:34:27


Post by: CaptainO


tneva82 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:

Has anyone tried hiding a squad of evil sunz stormboyz in a battlewagon with 10 grots. The +3" when getting out combo'd with the distance they cant move, advance and charge pretty much guarantee a T1 charge (only using the 6/7" turbo advance if really necessary). Nob with powerklaw is to be feared. If they're fighting near the inevitable da jumped squad of boys they're leadership shouldn't be an issue.


3" disembark, 13" move, 8" charge, 1" threat range=25". Sure it's juuuust about doable IF enemy doesn't realize that speed. If they do they deploy like 3.5" behind DZ line and you are looking over average.

And really how scary 5 stormboyz are? Just have the proper 30 and accept some casualties with advance move.


The stormboyz would be supported by a Warboss which means they can charge even if they advanced so their average threat range is 29". (actually longer as 8" charge is a low estimate thanks to ere we go). If I really wanted to make a charge I use full throttle and risk the mortal wounds

I run normally run evil sunz with 2 battlewagons with deff rollas supported by a mek KFF. The battelwagons are pretty low points but are a pretty punchy in cc and the T8 18 W means they're tough. Previously I put the 2 x 10 grotz inside. I know it seems like a waste but the reason is two fold. 1) lower the number of drops 2) dropping 20 objective secured (less if it blows up obviously) models right on an objective is a hilarious way to steal an objective in ITC games. Especially if, as is highly probable, I'm going second.

I take 3 x 5 stormboyz to fill out a brigade. I've found Kommandos are better at deep striking especially if they're able to assault something in cover. Obviously I da jump a max squad of 30 boyz but having two other units (with power klaws) that can get in there T1 is always good.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 10:53:41


Post by: tneva82


Yes but point is you better count on full throtle. If you don't then against any sane opponent either you do what he wants(he wants your 5 stormboyz to charge...and frankly what do opponent care if you sacrifice 5 stormboyz?) or you are looking at well over odds.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 11:01:38


Post by: CaptainO




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stormboyz take up 2 slots per model in a transport so even in a battlewagon you'll get 5 of them if you wan those 10 grots. That's not a real T1 threat. I personally don't think that combo has much going for it.

T1 charges are pretty rough to come by for Orks, da jumping anything Evil Sunz has a good chance of working. Other than that it's mostly warbikers and deffkoptas and both of those units are a bit too expensive for their melee acumen. A big blob of stormboyz could work, but they are so vulnerable if you don't get T1 so that's a gamble. I personally think our best option is just crazy amount of anti-chaff T1 and then let loose everything else T2 when all their screens are gone. That method is achieveable, I'm not sure if enough T1 charges to shut down the opponent is. At least not until we get some sweeping point drops. Happy to be proven wrong though.




I tried warbikes but as you said they're too pricey for what they do in cc. Stormboyz are 1/3 of the points and being infantry can take advantage of the magic boxes in ITC. The deffkoptas weren't even good in cc (to be fair I was taking them as singles due to points). I always set up assuming I'm going second. Like the warbikes the large squad of stormboyz is likely to get shot off the table. If an opponent spends a full turn firing into 1/2 bog standard battle wagons they've done their job.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
Yes but point is you better count on full throtle. If you don't then against any sane opponent either you do what he wants(he wants your 5 stormboyz to charge...and frankly what do opponent care if you sacrifice 5 stormboyz?) or you are looking at well over odds.


Assuming an average advance roll of 3.5 its 4.5 with evil sunz. Thats 3"+13"+4.5"+ 10" (average roll from 2d6 rerollable +1" for evil sunz) is a T1 AVERAGE 30.5" T1 threat range (31" as you'll be within 1") Theres no need to rely on the full throttle. I'm not saying the 5 stormboyz will wipe the floor with any unit but they'd definitely cause hurt to a TEQ, trouble a MEQ and screw with any vehicles. Their main role would be to tag a few units reducing the return fire the next turn. Bear in mind they effectively a throw away unit for 67Pts. If they make it into one cc then they've served their purpose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PiñaColada wrote:
The knight strat to target characters can be avoided by grot shield but honestly, just take a grot oiler and let him take the hit. Watch the IK player lose 12 points and 3CP for a 4point grot, he's never doing that again.


Listening to a podcast who tried this. The knights were souped with Ad Mech who had snipers. Snipers took care of the grot orderly easily. The knight did the rest against his Supa SAG Mek. Just something to be aware of.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 11:48:39


Post by: PiñaColada


CaptainO wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
The knight strat to target characters can be avoided by grot shield but honestly, just take a grot oiler and let him take the hit. Watch the IK player lose 12 points and 3CP for a 4point grot, he's never doing that again.


Listening to a podcast who tried this. The knights were souped with Ad Mech who had snipers. Snipers took care of the grot orderly easily. The knight did the rest against his Supa SAG Mek. Just something to be aware of.

Sure, but if the opponent has snipers and a dominus class knight, then obviously you need to use the grot shield. My point was that if your opponent only has a dominus class knight then don't bother using the strat. A grot oiler is always a sound investment IMO. I mean, I get what you're saying, don't be too reliant on the little guy. But just scan what character killing capabilities your opponent has and choose whether the strat is worth it thereafter. Grot shield is something you often want to use elsewhere

The again, I would argue that the Oathbreaker stratagem is rarely worth it for the IK player anyways. Even using that combined with Order of companions the odds of one-shotting something like a SAG big mek aren't fantastic..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Lol I just went back and read your thoughts, i was about to ask if you had a chance to try them yet. It seems that we run virtually the same sort of list and so we're running into similar problems. Mostly that a competitive speed freaky list isn't very good at dealing with armour and folds to a stiff breeze.

I think its better than the KFF Mek on bike because it actually has some punch. The Mek on bike has character protection though.

A KFF Mek on foot is protected and way cheaper but ultimately too slow and again lacks AA firepower.

The KFF is only part of the reason I want the wazboms, the other primary reason is their anti armour potential. It's why I had the Mork in (instead of Gork) the list. But these seem better in almost every way except for 2 reasons (as I see it anyways) -

1. They can't melee worth a damn.
2. I was taking Mork in the Dread WAAAGH! detachment so it could shoot twice. There is no stratagem to allow my planes to do this.

Hmmm this is a toughie. On one hand I'm worried the Mork would just get wiped T1 if I don't go first but on the other I like the sound of shooting him twice.
Yeah, you're the only other purist ES speed freeks player I know so we're bound to run into the same sort of issues. Namely bikes and buggies folding like damp tissue paper to plasma and lascannons etc. The bike KFF mek is probably the best way to go about it but I don't really use index options so I'm down to mega armoured meks (too slow/expensive) or the morkanaut or wazboms. Wazbom just fit thematically better IMO, has a decent amount of dakka (and can use the strat as noted by Jidmah), plus they keep up with the rest of the forces. The one wazbom I have already does decent work but I'm a bit hamstrung by trying to keep things in the bubble, so another one is something I'm looking into. But I decided my burna bomba needed some freehanded flames painted on it (in white) so now I'm regretting that haha. Mostly because I'm terrible at freehanding and I hate painting white so I don't know what I was thinking..


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 13:41:26


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Lol I just went back and read your thoughts, i was about to ask if you had a chance to try them yet. It seems that we run virtually the same sort of list and so we're running into similar problems. Mostly that a competitive speed freaky list isn't very good at dealing with armour and folds to a stiff breeze.

I think its better than the KFF Mek on bike because it actually has some punch. The Mek on bike has character protection though.

A KFF Mek on foot is protected and way cheaper but ultimately too slow and again lacks AA firepower.

The KFF is only part of the reason I want the wazboms, the other primary reason is their anti armour potential. It's why I had the Mork in (instead of Gork) the list. But these seem better in almost every way except for 2 reasons (as I see it anyways) -

1. They can't melee worth a damn.
2. I was taking Mork in the Dread WAAAGH! detachment so it could shoot twice. There is no stratagem to allow my planes to do this.

Hmmm this is a toughie. On one hand I'm worried the Mork would just get wiped T1 if I don't go first but on the other I like the sound of shooting him twice.


I am currently building an army around a (single) Wazzbomm, Dakkajet and three Chinorks as well as buggies. The Wazzbom and tankbustat's in the Chinorks can deal well with armor. The Chinorks are easily shot from the sky but there are methods of working with that, such as deepstrike T2 with the Chiorks and bringing your flying KFF over for some cover. Not tested it yet and I have to say I don't expect very much from them....apart form a lot of fun and mayhem.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 14:30:06


Post by: Vineheart01


Wazbomm looks solid to me ive been meaning to kitbash one of my dakkajets into one with a KFF.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 16:08:56


Post by: Coh Magnussen


Need some advice on what to work on next. I'm leaning towards a mono-faction freebooter army for fluff reasons, grot-themed but not restricting to grot units (I'm actually modelling everything but boyz and nobz using converted grots).

What I've got that might not be finished, but is fieldable:
1 Big Mek with KFF and a kombi-skorcha (though I can swap the kombi-skorch arm). He's in an exoskeleton so I could also call him mega-armored since his 'other' arm has a utility klaw that could easily pass as a PK.
1 GrotzWagen (open-topped battlewagon with magnetized deffrolla thats intended to carry 20 grots -- no boyz allowed!)
1 Trukk
1 DeffDredd (2xklaw 2xsaw)
1 Kan (klaw/rokkit but I can swap out the rokkit arm)
1 Grot Cutta (WIP, but for friendly locals I can field it -- I called it an index buggy the one time I played with it but planning to make this into a deffkilla wartrike with a harpoon gun to represent the snagga klaw)
5ish tankbustas (one has a tankhammer, but for casuals they probably won't mind "all tankbustas are stock") but no bomb squigs yet
7ish kommandos including 1 boss with klaw, 1 that could be a boss since he's got a banner but otherwise has no special weapons, 1 with big shoota, and 1 with burna. For casual games my locals don't mind if I toss a few boyz in there to boost it to a squad of 10.
1 nob with BC and kombi-skorcha
A small handful of boyz
A larger handful of grotz (~20, intended to roll in the grotzwagen)
1 lobba with crew.
1 lone stormgrot (stormboy modeled as a grot)

What I've got bits to make :
1 dakkajet (in progress, but not on a base yet)
1 other flyer (1/72 hellcat base model and assorted bits to turn it into a jet with whatever weaponry matches the flyer-of-choice)
Kanz (at least 3 with robogear bits, more with plasticard but those will take alot longer)
Dredds (parts for 2-3 more)
Boys
Grots
TankBustas
Kommandoes
4 Nobs
Grot Tanks
Chinork (War Zeppelin)
DeffKoptas (Also balloon based)
StormBoyz (Grots flying on balloons -- detect a theme here?)
MANz (these are much more labor intensive since I'd be building them up from scratch with plasticard)
A bajillion lobbas
Assorted Mek Guns

I don't have specific bits, but I'm sure I could cobble together a warboss,a wierdboy, a counts-as snikrot, or the stormboy boss guy if I needed to fill more HQ slots.

I could probably make some Lootas, but I don't have alot of good base guns so I'd have to plasticard the snot out of those as well.

I also have some ideas for a megatrakk scrapjet, or could probably do a big trakk out of the bits that are slated for grot tanks.



So -- with all that out of the way, what would you recommend I focus on building next in order to have a cohesive list that actually works reasonably well together? I like the idea of a mechanized list (grotz in the wagon, bustas in the truck and/or chinork, and ork war machines of assorted flavors), and eventually I plan to have a 30-man "chain gang" of captive orks for da-jumping, but I'm wondering if I'm better off just saturating harder targets since there's no way I'm ever going to build/paint 180 ork boyz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 18:50:22


Post by: Emicrania


Is there any "competitive" freebootas army out there ?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/19 21:58:57


Post by: An Actual Englishman


PiñaColada wrote:
Yeah, you're the only other purist ES speed freeks player I know so we're bound to run into the same sort of issues. Namely bikes and buggies folding like damp tissue paper to plasma and lascannons etc. The bike KFF mek is probably the best way to go about it but I don't really use index options so I'm down to mega armoured meks (too slow/expensive) or the morkanaut or wazboms. Wazbom just fit thematically better IMO, has a decent amount of dakka (and can use the strat as noted by Jidmah), plus they keep up with the rest of the forces. The one wazbom I have already does decent work but I'm a bit hamstrung by trying to keep things in the bubble, so another one is something I'm looking into. But I decided my burna bomba needed some freehanded flames painted on it (in white) so now I'm regretting that haha. Mostly because I'm terrible at freehanding and I hate painting white so I don't know what I was thinking..

I've just decided to revisit my Dakkajet lol! I started the magnetized bombs today and to be fair they don't look bad. I might have to magnetise a KFF to it though if I want to go as a Wazbom.

I reckon with 2 Wazboms we can do decent coverage and protect our precious buggies and bikes, especially on turn 2 when they're most vulnerable. After that who cares? They'll probably be dead anyway lol.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
I am currently building an army around a (single) Wazzbomm, Dakkajet and three Chinorks as well as buggies. The Wazzbom and tankbustat's in the Chinorks can deal well with armor. The Chinorks are easily shot from the sky but there are methods of working with that, such as deepstrike T2 with the Chiorks and bringing your flying KFF over for some cover. Not tested it yet and I have to say I don't expect very much from them....apart form a lot of fun and mayhem.


Hmm this intrigues me but I'll struggle to fit the Chinorks and Tankbustas into my lists. They are my fall back if the buggies and Wazbom just don't cut it though.

 Emicrania wrote:
Is there any "competitive" freebootas army out there ?
Yea, Ben Jurek is running an interesting list (probably the most interesting Ork list atm) that's all Freebootas. It has a 2 Gorkanauts and a Morkanaut too, chaos.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 06:57:03


Post by: Emicrania


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Spoiler:
PiñaColada wrote:
Yeah, you're the only other purist ES speed freeks player I know so we're bound to run into the same sort of issues. Namely bikes and buggies folding like damp tissue paper to plasma and lascannons etc. The bike KFF mek is probably the best way to go about it but I don't really use index options so I'm down to mega armoured meks (too slow/expensive) or the morkanaut or wazboms. Wazbom just fit thematically better IMO, has a decent amount of dakka (and can use the strat as noted by Jidmah), plus they keep up with the rest of the forces. The one wazbom I have already does decent work but I'm a bit hamstrung by trying to keep things in the bubble, so another one is something I'm looking into. But I decided my burna bomba needed some freehanded flames painted on it (in white) so now I'm regretting that haha. Mostly because I'm terrible at freehanding and I hate painting white so I don't know what I was thinking..

I've just decided to revisit my Dakkajet lol! I started the magnetized bombs today and to be fair they don't look bad. I might have to magnetise a KFF to it though if I want to go as a Wazbom.

I reckon with 2 Wazboms we can do decent coverage and protect our precious buggies and bikes, especially on turn 2 when they're most vulnerable. After that who cares? They'll probably be dead anyway lol.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
I am currently building an army around a (single) Wazzbomm, Dakkajet and three Chinorks as well as buggies. The Wazzbom and tankbustat's in the Chinorks can deal well with armor. The Chinorks are easily shot from the sky but there are methods of working with that, such as deepstrike T2 with the Chiorks and bringing your flying KFF over for some cover. Not tested it yet and I have to say I don't expect very much from them....apart form a lot of fun and mayhem.


Hmm this intrigues me but I'll struggle to fit the Chinorks and Tankbustas into my lists. They are my fall back if the buggies and Wazbom just don't cut it though.

 Emicrania wrote:
Is there any "competitive" freebootas army out there ?
Yea, Ben Jurek is running an interesting list (probably the most interesting Ork list atm) that's all Freebootas. It has a 2 Gorkanauts and a Morkanaut too, chaos.


That sounds crazy, and fun! Care to link? I could onöy find a link to a podcast


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 08:09:47


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 Emicrania wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Spoiler:
PiñaColada wrote:
Yeah, you're the only other purist ES speed freeks player I know so we're bound to run into the same sort of issues. Namely bikes and buggies folding like damp tissue paper to plasma and lascannons etc. The bike KFF mek is probably the best way to go about it but I don't really use index options so I'm down to mega armoured meks (too slow/expensive) or the morkanaut or wazboms. Wazbom just fit thematically better IMO, has a decent amount of dakka (and can use the strat as noted by Jidmah), plus they keep up with the rest of the forces. The one wazbom I have already does decent work but I'm a bit hamstrung by trying to keep things in the bubble, so another one is something I'm looking into. But I decided my burna bomba needed some freehanded flames painted on it (in white) so now I'm regretting that haha. Mostly because I'm terrible at freehanding and I hate painting white so I don't know what I was thinking..

I've just decided to revisit my Dakkajet lol! I started the magnetized bombs today and to be fair they don't look bad. I might have to magnetise a KFF to it though if I want to go as a Wazbom.

I reckon with 2 Wazboms we can do decent coverage and protect our precious buggies and bikes, especially on turn 2 when they're most vulnerable. After that who cares? They'll probably be dead anyway lol.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
I am currently building an army around a (single) Wazzbomm, Dakkajet and three Chinorks as well as buggies. The Wazzbom and tankbustat's in the Chinorks can deal well with armor. The Chinorks are easily shot from the sky but there are methods of working with that, such as deepstrike T2 with the Chiorks and bringing your flying KFF over for some cover. Not tested it yet and I have to say I don't expect very much from them....apart form a lot of fun and mayhem.


Hmm this intrigues me but I'll struggle to fit the Chinorks and Tankbustas into my lists. They are my fall back if the buggies and Wazbom just don't cut it though.

 Emicrania wrote:
Is there any "competitive" freebootas army out there ?
Yea, Ben Jurek is running an interesting list (probably the most interesting Ork list atm) that's all Freebootas. It has a 2 Gorkanauts and a Morkanaut too, chaos.


That sounds crazy, and fun! Care to link? I could onöy find a link to a podcast


Yea its in this article.
https://spikeybits.com/2019/01/orks-gsc-break-into-top-40k-army-lists-at-athoria-gt.html


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 08:27:40


Post by: Waaaghbert


 Emicrania wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Spoiler:
PiñaColada wrote:
Yeah, you're the only other purist ES speed freeks player I know so we're bound to run into the same sort of issues. Namely bikes and buggies folding like damp tissue paper to plasma and lascannons etc. The bike KFF mek is probably the best way to go about it but I don't really use index options so I'm down to mega armoured meks (too slow/expensive) or the morkanaut or wazboms. Wazbom just fit thematically better IMO, has a decent amount of dakka (and can use the strat as noted by Jidmah), plus they keep up with the rest of the forces. The one wazbom I have already does decent work but I'm a bit hamstrung by trying to keep things in the bubble, so another one is something I'm looking into. But I decided my burna bomba needed some freehanded flames painted on it (in white) so now I'm regretting that haha. Mostly because I'm terrible at freehanding and I hate painting white so I don't know what I was thinking..

I've just decided to revisit my Dakkajet lol! I started the magnetized bombs today and to be fair they don't look bad. I might have to magnetise a KFF to it though if I want to go as a Wazbom.

I reckon with 2 Wazboms we can do decent coverage and protect our precious buggies and bikes, especially on turn 2 when they're most vulnerable. After that who cares? They'll probably be dead anyway lol.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
I am currently building an army around a (single) Wazzbomm, Dakkajet and three Chinorks as well as buggies. The Wazzbom and tankbustat's in the Chinorks can deal well with armor. The Chinorks are easily shot from the sky but there are methods of working with that, such as deepstrike T2 with the Chiorks and bringing your flying KFF over for some cover. Not tested it yet and I have to say I don't expect very much from them....apart form a lot of fun and mayhem.


Hmm this intrigues me but I'll struggle to fit the Chinorks and Tankbustas into my lists. They are my fall back if the buggies and Wazbom just don't cut it though.

 Emicrania wrote:
Is there any "competitive" freebootas army out there ?
Yea, Ben Jurek is running an interesting list (probably the most interesting Ork list atm) that's all Freebootas. It has a 2 Gorkanauts and a Morkanaut too, chaos.



That sounds crazy, and fun! Care to link? I could onöy find a link to a podcast



I'll just jump in (I asked the actual Englishman in a PM and he kindly provided me with the link):

https://spikeybits.com/2019/01/orks-gsc-break-into-top-40k-army-lists-at-athoria-gt.html


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 09:05:56


Post by: tneva82


Wonder what the freeboota in battallion is supposed to do. There's not much h2h in that list apart from boyz and naughts. Is he really planning to count on getting 2+ of those in combat same turn and have that bonus? If he's da jumpin ginfantry ahead like article says those will be killed after that. Battallion meanwhile neither provides nor benefits shooty elements.

Flyers + nauts as freeboota make sense. Boyz for freeboota seems odd one.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 09:10:43


Post by: Waaaghbert


tneva82 wrote:
Wonder what the freeboota in battallion is supposed to do. There's not much h2h in that list apart from boyz and naughts. Is he really planning to count on getting 2+ of those in combat same turn and have that bonus? If he's da jumpin ginfantry ahead like article says those will be killed after that. Battallion meanwhile neither provides nor benefits shooty elements.

Flyers + nauts as freeboota make sense. Boyz for freeboota seems odd one.


I think most of the boyz are shootaz as well, or am I missreading something? So no h2h at all


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 09:41:47


Post by: Jidmah


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:

That sounds crazy, and fun! Care to link? I could onöy find a link to a podcast


Yea its in this article.
https://spikeybits.com/2019/01/orks-gsc-break-into-top-40k-army-lists-at-athoria-gt.html


Can someone turn that picture into text? I'd add it to the first post then.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 10:32:18


Post by: Emicrania


That list is.... Insane! I Love it!

Thanks man


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:

That sounds crazy, and fun! Care to link? I could onöy find a link to a podcast


Yea its in this article.
https://spikeybits.com/2019/01/orks-gsc-break-into-top-40k-army-lists-at-athoria-gt.html


Can someone turn that picture into text? I'd add it to the first post then.


Is this ok?


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [23 PL, 445pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

+ HQ +

Warboss in Mega Armour (index) [7 PL, 122pts]: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 201pts]: 2x Tankbusta Bombs
. . Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. . 19x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
. . 8x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Orks) [52 PL, -1CP, 1078pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Gorkanaut [15 PL, 311pts]: 2x Rokkit Launcha, Skorcha, 2x Twin Big Shoota

Gorkanaut [15 PL, 311pts]: 2x Rokkit Launcha, Skorcha, 2x Twin Big Shoota

Morkanaut [15 PL, 310pts]: Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta, Kustom Mega-zappa, 2x Rokkit Launcha, 2x Twin Big Shoota

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Orks) [22 PL, 475pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

+ Flyer +

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Wazbom Blastajet [8 PL, 179pts]: 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons, Kustom Force Field, Smasha Gun, 2x Supa Shoota

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 11:06:22


Post by: CaptainO


Anyone tried a quad kustom mega blaster deff dread as part of a dredd waagh.

8 x kustom blasta shots for 91pts.... Bad moonz make sense with the reroll 1s.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 11:13:01


Post by: Emicrania


Bone txt would be

Freebooterz
+++Flyer+++
Wazbomb Blastajet KFF
Dakkajet
Dakkajet
+++Battalion+++
Armoured Warboss PK KS
Weirboy

10x gretchin
10x gretchin
28x boyz (19 shoota+BC)
+++Spearhead/ Dread Waagh+++
SAG Mek Souped SAG
Weirboy

Gorkanaut
Gorkanaut
Morkanaut KFF


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 12:17:06


Post by: Jidmah


Thanks to Waaaghbert and Emicrania for providing this list!

Added it to the first post.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 13:42:24


Post by: Singleton Mosby


That Freebootaz list sure sounds interesting. But I'm not sure how he benefits so well from the clan culture.

 Emicrania wrote:
Is there any "competitive" freebootas army out there ?


I've not played a competetive list yet, not really my style I've to admit. But when playtesting for my last tourney some friends were not happy with my list as they considered it too powerfull. It was 1000 pts for a 2vs2 tourney composed of:

HQ: Super SAG
HQ: Badrukk
TRPS: 3 x Gretchin
Elite: 8 tankbusta's + two squiggbombs (they go in the Chinork which allows me to be sure I can use them in my own first turn or deepstrike in the enemies 2nd turn).
FA: 2x Boosta blasta
Heavy: Flash Gitz in trukk
Heavy: 3 x Smasha gun

It did fairly well at the tourney even though my partner's kan wall didn't do well at all. In test games in which I played the list on its own I was able to wreak havoc in the shooting fase and table opponents turn 2.

I guess the following might work quite well at circa 2000 pts:

Freebooterz
+++Battalion+++
Mek with Supa SAG
Bikerboss with PK / Baddrukk

10x shootaboys
10x gretchin
10x gretchin

8 tankbustas's + squiggs go in Chinork
8 tankbustas's + squiggs go in Chinork

Kustom Boosta Blasta
Kustom Boosta Blasta

Flash Gitz go in trukk
Flash Gitz go in trukk
5 x Smasha gun

Dakkajet
Dakkajet
Wazbom

Chinork
Chinork
Trukk
Trukk

How does this work? The main thing is getting of your Freebootaz bubble in the shooting fase. That make all your shooty units do sterling work, and as you can see there are many. The Smasha gunz do good work here (even at 1000 pts I was able to fire the bubble most of the time). From there it is target selection. Rerolling tankbusta's which hit on 4's are amazing. They make armour melt. The Flash Gitz are even better since they hit on 2's/3's. The Trukk does wonders for their survivability and you can loot it for a propa armour save.

Then there is the Biker Boss. He cleans your backfield when needed, possibly with some help from the Flash Gitz. It is not that difficult to keep the flyers within the 24" Freebootaz bubble. The Wazbom can protect the Chinorks a bit when they have raced into the enemies lines for anti-armour work or character sniping. They are not half bad themselves either. And who doesn't like a Dakkajet hitting on 3's. Then there are the buggies. They work well for getting objectives and their Rivet gun is not bad either.

Possibly swap out one of the dakkajets for Badrukk and some shootaboys to hold the backfield a bit better. A good thing about this list is you do not have to rely on CP all that much since it is only needed for the Super SAG and Loot it!



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 16:01:00


Post by: tneva82


How flashgits hit on 2/3? Bs4, freeboota. 3+ stationary right?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 16:20:20


Post by: Vineheart01


The Kaptin has +1 to hit so he'd be hitting on 2s.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 18:38:48


Post by: Emicrania


Yes but they must be stationary and that means they can't möve inside the truck?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 18:58:50


Post by: The Shrike


CaptainO wrote:
Anyone tried a quad kustom mega blaster deff dread as part of a dredd waagh.

8 x kustom blasta shots for 91pts.... Bad moonz make sense with the reroll 1s.


Not a math guy by any means but wouldn’t Deathskulls make more sense? It’s a single model unit; so if you take say 3 solos to fill out a Brigade; each one gets to reroll a hit, wound and damage and gets a 6++ on top...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/20 21:19:31


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Emicrania wrote:
Yes but they must be stationary and that means they can't möve inside the truck?


Most of the time he doesn't have to. The trukk serves as a mobile bunker and allows for Loot it! when it is blown up.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/21 08:10:39


Post by: Waaaghbert


 The Shrike wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
Anyone tried a quad kustom mega blaster deff dread as part of a dredd waagh.

8 x kustom blasta shots for 91pts.... Bad moonz make sense with the reroll 1s.


Not a math guy by any means but wouldn’t Deathskulls make more sense? It’s a single model unit; so if you take say 3 solos to fill out a Brigade; each one gets to reroll a hit, wound and damage and gets a 6++ on top...


I think your right at least for the regular 4 shots. I did some quick maths and DS is better even if you consider only hitting, so is actually far superior if you factor in the one reroll for wounding and damage, not even considering the 6++.

simplified, 4 dice give you ~0,66 ones, so only 0,66 rerolls whereas DS give you one reroll flat.

I only calculated this for 4 shots because I don't think it is worth it useing the Strat on one Deffdread and I don't think it is possible to use it on a squadron since they act indepentently after deployment as far as I know.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/21 10:50:39


Post by: tneva82


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
Yes but they must be stationary and that means they can't möve inside the truck?


Most of the time he doesn't have to. The trukk serves as a mobile bunker and allows for Loot it! when it is blown up.


Well T1 they will be moving at least 50% times. 24" means you are out of range T1. And even if you go 2nd opponent might not even move within 24" of trukk. Many armies don't even have a need. Except maybe put some chaff there to TEMPT you to stay still.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/21 12:03:51


Post by: Jidmah


It's not like their shooting drops to zero when you move them...

Get them into a good position turn 1 and keep them there for the rest of the game.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/21 12:16:38


Post by: Waaaghbert


On another topic: For those who run Trukkboyz (Sounds strange ), do you prefer Shottaz or Choppaboyz?
I thought as they lack the bonus attack for their numbers, the shoota is a better idea and they could serve as an ok way to clear some chaff with shootaz

Anyone has some experiences using them?

PS: I'm not saying they are competitive. More like "if you HAD to use them, how would you do it"


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/21 12:43:10


Post by: r_squared


Waaaghbert wrote:
On another topic: For those who run Trukkboyz (Sounds strange ), do you prefer Shottaz or Choppaboyz?
I thought as they lack the bonus attack for their numbers, the shoota is a better idea and they could serve as an ok way to clear some chaff with shootaz

Anyone has some experiences using them?

PS: I'm not saying they are competitive. More like "if you HAD to use them, how would you do it"


I've been using Deathskulls trukk shoota boys for a little while now as mobile gunboats and their ability to help clear screens and especially tau drones is very handy.

I pair a standard mek with kmb, 9 shootas with TB bomb, 1x rokkit boy and a Nob with PK and kombI rokkit in a trukk with a rokkit for a lot of re-rollable str 8 damage paired with 18 str 4 screen clearance dakka.
That little lot comes in at 216 points.
I now only bring it to games where my opponent knows the list, asks for it, and wants a challenge. In a 1000 point game, 3 or 4 of these with a big mek kff on bike and some smasha gunz is pretty grim for your opponent.
You can easily start to lose opponents and friends using this sort of cheese.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/21 15:02:32


Post by: Vineheart01


not factoring in that killakanz arent the greatest, which of their melee weapons you think is best?

Saws feel like they'd be the best because more attacks
Drills can poke through invuls with mortal wounds (but weakest strength)
Klaws are the only S8, which is of course a major threshold.

I tend to only use Klaws because of that but i am beginning to question if thats the best option. My 6 kanz are technically split up among the 3 types because they were built before the rules for different weapons popped up.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/21 15:40:19


Post by: CaptainO


Waaaghbert wrote:
 The Shrike wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
Anyone tried a quad kustom mega blaster deff dread as part of a dredd waagh.

8 x kustom blasta shots for 91pts.... Bad moonz make sense with the reroll 1s.


Not a math guy by any means but wouldn’t Deathskulls make more sense? It’s a single model unit; so if you take say 3 solos to fill out a Brigade; each one gets to reroll a hit, wound and damage and gets a 6++ on top...


I think your right at least for the regular 4 shots. I did some quick maths and DS is better even if you consider only hitting, so is actually far superior if you factor in the one reroll for wounding and damage, not even considering the 6++.

simplified, 4 dice give you ~0,66 ones, so only 0,66 rerolls whereas DS give you one reroll flat.

I only calculated this for 4 shots because I don't think it is worth it useing the Strat on one Deffdread and I don't think it is possible to use it on a squadron since they act indepentently after deployment as far as I know.



I'd be taking the quad kustom shoota deff dread, a Super SAG Mek and 2 x smasha gunz for a 237 point spearhead bad moon dreed waagh specialist detachment. My logic is that both the dread and Mek could double shoot and I have redundancy in the event I get Veckt'd or whatever the GSC equivalent is.

If you double shoot with the quad blasta dread you're likely to get 1.33 1s a go. You could argue that the dredds shooting doesn't degrade so its less of an issue if he loses wounds to overheating. I don't know if I'd take the dredd if I couldn't double shoot him and if I take that spearhead as Deathskulls then either the Mek or the dredd could shoot twice...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/21 16:00:14


Post by: Waaaghbert


Spoiler:
CaptainO wrote:
Waaaghbert wrote:
 The Shrike wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
Anyone tried a quad kustom mega blaster deff dread as part of a dredd waagh.

8 x kustom blasta shots for 91pts.... Bad moonz make sense with the reroll 1s.


Not a math guy by any means but wouldn’t Deathskulls make more sense? It’s a single model unit; so if you take say 3 solos to fill out a Brigade; each one gets to reroll a hit, wound and damage and gets a 6++ on top...


I think your right at least for the regular 4 shots. I did some quick maths and DS is better even if you consider only hitting, so is actually far superior if you factor in the one reroll for wounding and damage, not even considering the 6++.

simplified, 4 dice give you ~0,66 ones, so only 0,66 rerolls whereas DS give you one reroll flat.

I only calculated this for 4 shots because I don't think it is worth it useing the Strat on one Deffdread and I don't think it is possible to use it on a squadron since they act indepentently after deployment as far as I know.



I'd be taking the quad kustom shoota deff dread, a Super SAG Mek and 2 x smasha gunz for a 237 point spearhead bad moon dreed waagh specialist detachment. My logic is that both the dread and Mek could double shoot and I have redundancy in the event I get Veckt'd or whatever the GSC equivalent is.

If you double shoot with the quad blasta dread you're likely to get 1.33 1s a go. You could argue that the dredds shooting doesn't degrade so its less of an issue if he loses wounds to overheating. I don't know if I'd take the dredd if I couldn't double shoot him and if I take that spearhead as Deathskulls then either the Mek or the dredd could shoot twice...


Hm, the shoot twice strat on the deff dread nets you 0,7 more wounds against a T8 target, so I'm not sure it is worth spending 2 CPs for that. And I dont think any opponent is gonna Vect this.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/21 16:13:19


Post by: HeavenLord


Hi,

I want to start a new army and as a Mad Max fan, I thought about orks due to their unique bikes, buggies and trucks models.

I am playing essentially in 1000 points games in a competitive environment. Do you think it is possible to have a cool Mad Max army which can still wreck faces?

thanks a lot!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/21 17:37:24


Post by: Jidmah


Depends on the competitiveness of the other players. Buggies and bikes do well against other non-optimized lists but will absolutely get wrecked by someone bringing the best he can.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/21 19:29:41


Post by: Vineheart01


my full squad of bikers died to a single leviathan attack (double autocannon arms).
Granted, bit of absurd luck on his end and abysmal luck on mine (1 KFF save...out of 14 hits..really?) but still that was annoying.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/21 23:07:03


Post by: ManTube


HeavenLord wrote:
Hi,

I want to start a new army and as a Mad Max fan, I thought about orks due to their unique bikes, buggies and trucks models.

I am playing essentially in 1000 points games in a competitive environment. Do you think it is possible to have a cool Mad Max army which can still wreck faces?

thanks a lot!


If you want a speedy army that is still competitively-minded, at 1000 points you might run something like:

Deffkilla Wartrike
Weirdboy
30 boyz
10 grots
10 grots
2 megatrakk scrapjets
Bone breaka w/deff rolla
7 nobz w/ 2 ammo runts, 5 with double choppa and 2 with choppa and big choppa

Should be about 1000 points off the top of my head, it's 8 CP, nobz and weirdboy ride in the bone breaka. Make the whole thing evil sunz and jump the boyz mob up so that you can hopefully hit your opponent with 30 boyz, a deffkilla wartrike, 2 megatrakk scrap jets and the bonebreaka all straight away. It's harder to effectively screen at this points level, but it might be better to make the 30 boyz shoota boyz to help with this. Ramming speed with one of the vehicles and that's 3d3 mortal wounds in your charge phase which is not insignificant at this points level. Use loot it on the nobz when a vehicle blows up for a nice 3+ save, and remember to save 3cp for endless green tide, it's a brutal stratagem in smaller games especially. I feel this is semi-competitive for the type of list you want to run at this points level, and I feel it would be fun to play. It's very fast, has lots of immediate threats, has decent anti-infantry and good sources of mortal wounds too in the form of weirdboy smite and the scrapjet charges.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/22 09:57:25


Post by: CaptainO


Waaaghbert wrote:
Spoiler:
CaptainO wrote:
Waaaghbert wrote:
 The Shrike wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
Anyone tried a quad kustom mega blaster deff dread as part of a dredd waagh.

8 x kustom blasta shots for 91pts.... Bad moonz make sense with the reroll 1s.


Not a math guy by any means but wouldn’t Deathskulls make more sense? It’s a single model unit; so if you take say 3 solos to fill out a Brigade; each one gets to reroll a hit, wound and damage and gets a 6++ on top...


I think your right at least for the regular 4 shots. I did some quick maths and DS is better even if you consider only hitting, so is actually far superior if you factor in the one reroll for wounding and damage, not even considering the 6++.

simplified, 4 dice give you ~0,66 ones, so only 0,66 rerolls whereas DS give you one reroll flat.

I only calculated this for 4 shots because I don't think it is worth it useing the Strat on one Deffdread and I don't think it is possible to use it on a squadron since they act indepentently after deployment as far as I know.



I'd be taking the quad kustom shoota deff dread, a Super SAG Mek and 2 x smasha gunz for a 237 point spearhead bad moon dreed waagh specialist detachment. My logic is that both the dread and Mek could double shoot and I have redundancy in the event I get Veckt'd or whatever the GSC equivalent is.

If you double shoot with the quad blasta dread you're likely to get 1.33 1s a go. You could argue that the dredds shooting doesn't degrade so its less of an issue if he loses wounds to overheating. I don't know if I'd take the dredd if I couldn't double shoot him and if I take that spearhead as Deathskulls then either the Mek or the dredd could shoot twice...


Hm, the shoot twice strat on the deff dread nets you 0,7 more wounds against a T8 target, so I'm not sure it is worth spending 2 CPs for that. And I dont think any opponent is gonna Vect this.


The shoot twice strat will surely double the number of wounds it causes to whatever target it shoots at.

Dark eldar or GSC probably wouldn't bother vecting the deff dread but they might Vect the Super SAG Killa Mek firing twice (particularly good against Talos) SInce you can only vect once per phase the ability to use either kustom ammo or showing off gives redundancy. If they don't vect you have the option to use it on the dread.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
my full squad of bikers died to a single leviathan attack (double autocannon arms).
Granted, bit of absurd luck on his end and abysmal luck on mine (1 KFF save...out of 14 hits..really?) but still that was annoying.


Ya multi damage weapons tear into bikes. Along with Da jumped boyz theyre one of our few T1 charge threats so they'll attract a lot of T1 fire power. Multi damage weapons are wasted on the shoota/slugga boyz so they all turn on the bikes.

The big faq won't change points cost but we might see a few rules changes for strats. Allowing us to use the -1 to hit bikers when shot at could make the bikers a bit more competitive.

Obviously Soup is king in the Meta. I was thinking maybe a rule that gives +3CP to mono faction armies could if not completely mix up the Meta, at least make mono armies a bit more competitive. Mono guard, Mech and space marine would be cool to see at tournaments. Its just a thought.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/22 10:20:11


Post by: Waaaghbert


CaptainO wrote:
Waaaghbert wrote:
Spoiler:
CaptainO wrote:
Waaaghbert wrote:
 The Shrike wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
Anyone tried a quad kustom mega blaster deff dread as part of a dredd waagh.

8 x kustom blasta shots for 91pts.... Bad moonz make sense with the reroll 1s.


Not a math guy by any means but wouldn’t Deathskulls make more sense? It’s a single model unit; so if you take say 3 solos to fill out a Brigade; each one gets to reroll a hit, wound and damage and gets a 6++ on top...


I think your right at least for the regular 4 shots. I did some quick maths and DS is better even if you consider only hitting, so is actually far superior if you factor in the one reroll for wounding and damage, not even considering the 6++.

simplified, 4 dice give you ~0,66 ones, so only 0,66 rerolls whereas DS give you one reroll flat.

I only calculated this for 4 shots because I don't think it is worth it useing the Strat on one Deffdread and I don't think it is possible to use it on a squadron since they act indepentently after deployment as far as I know.



I'd be taking the quad kustom shoota deff dread, a Super SAG Mek and 2 x smasha gunz for a 237 point spearhead bad moon dreed waagh specialist detachment. My logic is that both the dread and Mek could double shoot and I have redundancy in the event I get Veckt'd or whatever the GSC equivalent is.

If you double shoot with the quad blasta dread you're likely to get 1.33 1s a go. You could argue that the dredds shooting doesn't degrade so its less of an issue if he loses wounds to overheating. I don't know if I'd take the dredd if I couldn't double shoot him and if I take that spearhead as Deathskulls then either the Mek or the dredd could shoot twice...


Hm, the shoot twice strat on the deff dread nets you 0,7 more wounds against a T8 target, so I'm not sure it is worth spending 2 CPs for that. And I dont think any opponent is gonna Vect this.


The shoot twice strat will surely double the number of wounds it causes to whatever target it shoots at.

Dark eldar or GSC probably wouldn't bother vecting the deff dread but they might Vect the Super SAG Killa Mek firing twice (particularly good against Talos) SInce you can only vect once per phase the ability to use either kustom ammo or showing off gives redundancy. If they don't vect you have the option to use it on the dread.



Hm, maybe I'm not getting this right. But you basically have two arguments:
1) using them as Bad moons gives you the shoot twice start twice, thus creating redundancy. This I agree on, IF you'll use it on the Souped up SAG, wich leads me to ...
2) you think using Shoot twice on the dread is a good idea. This I disagree with. Of course you'll double the wounds, but one wound doubled is only one wound more and I dont think 1 wound is worth 2 CPs.

If I got this wrong and misunderstood you, I'm sorry, but there would be close to no situation where shoot twice on that Dread would be a good idea.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/22 15:15:38


Post by: G00fySmiley


So I think i finally have the nob squad loadout that I am happy with.

have tried without a power claw or kill saw, but i find its just too necessary to sometimes be able to make that swing.

boss nob w/ killsaw
3x nobz with big choppa /choppa
2x power stabba / choppa
4x dual choppa

da jump or teleporter are great, but a crusha wagon

an additional mega armored or normal big mek w/ kff for protection when they jump out is pricey but does work. the bone breaker with kff protection is hard to crack before it can get where it needs to go negating the negatives of a big mek in mega armor, plus repairing the bone breaker behind the thing out of LOS

it is a lto of points , but its 458 points that i find almost always gets its points back.

in smaller games I run the bone breaker still usually but divide into 2x5 nobs with 1 killsaw, 2 big choppas and 2 dual choppas each group.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/22 20:58:14


Post by: Emicrania


Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) ++
Clan Kultur: Freebooterz
Specialist Detachment: Dread Waaaagh!
+ HQ +
Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun: Grot Oiler, Da Souped Up Shoota
Weirdboy
+ Troops +
Gretchin: 10x Gretchin
Gretchin: 10x Gretchin
Gretchin: 10x Gretchin
+ Heavy Support +
Gorkanaut: 2x Rokkit Launcha, Skorcha, 2x Twin Big Shoota
Mek Gunz
. . Gun: Smasha Gun
. . Gun: Smasha Gun
. . Gun: Smasha Gun
. . Gun: Traktor Kannon
Morkanaut: Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta, Kustom Mega-zappa, 2x Rokkit Launcha, 2x Twin Big Shoota
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) ++
Clan Kultur: Freebooterz
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike (index): Attack Squig, Brutal but Kunnin, Power Klaw, Shoota (Index), Warlord
Weirdboy, Warphead
+ Troops +
Boyz
. . Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. . 20x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
. . 8x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Gretchin: 10x Gretchin
Gretchin: 10x Gretchin
+ Elites +
Tankbustas: 2x Bomb Squig
. . Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. . 9x Tankbusta: 9x Rokkit Launcha
+ Flyer +
Dakkajet: 6x Supa Shoota
Wazbom Blastajet: 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons, Kustom Force Field, Smasha Gun, 2x Supa Shoota
+ Dedicated Transport +
Trukk: Big Shoota


Given thay cool list We posted a while ago, do you think would this works?
Do I have enough punch and Target saturation? Board control?
Double Relic and Warphead for Da Jump, Warpath and Da Fist of Gork


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/22 23:55:30


Post by: Marklarr


I’m pretty sure any unit inside a truck or wagon isn’t gong to get the +1 to hit, it’s an aura ability.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/23 00:26:25


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Marklarr wrote:
I’m pretty sure any unit inside a truck or wagon isn’t gong to get the +1 to hit, it’s an aura ability.
The modifier gets transferred due to the Open Topped rule. The unit inside doesn't benefit from the aura. Because the Trukk gets +1 to hit, the unit inside does.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/23 10:57:22


Post by: Emicrania


And the other way around also? Does the tunkabusta trigger the ability for other units?



Edit: yes they can, the limit to the trukk is about aura abilities,not army rules


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/23 15:11:54


Post by: Vineheart01


the freeboota bonus is actually one of the FEW effects that do transfer to the occupants.

Open Topped applies modifiers on the vehicle to the occupants. Dunno bout you but +1 to hit is definitely 100% a modifier.

That being said, the vehicle itself cannot trigger the Freeboota trait for the occupants because it doesnt give the bonus to itself, has to be another unit that triggers it. So a wagon off on its own with tankbustas/freebootas will never benefit from the +1, but 24" is such a huge bubble you kinda have to TRY to be that isolated.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/23 17:42:23


Post by: The Shrike


Can someone explain to me why Grot Shields is so good? You can’t use the same stratagem more than once a phase. So your opponent shoots X at your Lootas or what have you, you blow the CP to block it, then he proceeds to blow them away right? New to Orks, someone help me.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/23 17:50:51


Post by: BaconCatBug


 The Shrike wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Grot Shields is so good? You can’t use the same stratagem more than once a phase. So your opponent shoots X at your Lootas or what have you, you blow the CP to block it, then he proceeds to blow them away right? New to Orks, someone help me.
Grot shields lasts for the entire phase, not just the shooting attack that triggers it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/23 22:29:41


Post by: Emicrania


The best thing about it is that you can have grots anywhere (easily) hidden and , as long they are closer to the enemy , they count for the purpose of the stratagem.
The only thing I don't understand it is what happens if you have multiple units close by; can you keep on using grots or is it limited to one unit ?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/23 23:59:26


Post by: Vineheart01


Grot Shields also targets the ork unit not the grot unit
So if you have 2 min squads of grots in front of the orks, and one dies, the stratagem still works for the other grot unit.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 00:30:20


Post by: Marklarr


 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Marklarr wrote:
I’m pretty sure any unit inside a truck or wagon isn’t gong to get the +1 to hit, it’s an aura ability.
The modifier gets transferred due to the Open Topped rule. The unit inside doesn't benefit from the aura. Because the Trukk gets +1 to hit, the unit inside does.


Hmmm something about that just doesn’t seem quite right to me. But if you are correct, would that mean moar dakka and the wreckers stratagem would effect passengers if they were used on the truck?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 01:03:18


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Marklarr wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Marklarr wrote:
I’m pretty sure any unit inside a truck or wagon isn’t gong to get the +1 to hit, it’s an aura ability.
The modifier gets transferred due to the Open Topped rule. The unit inside doesn't benefit from the aura. Because the Trukk gets +1 to hit, the unit inside does.


Hmmm something about that just doesn’t seem quite right to me. But if you are correct, would that mean moar dakka and the wreckers stratagem would effect passengers if they were used on the truck?
More Dakka isn't a modifier, so no. Re-rolls are not a modifier, so no.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 09:36:05


Post by: Emicrania


It was explicitly Faq'ed that you can't you stratagem for models/troops inside transports


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 14:52:41


Post by: BaconCatBug


You are not using a stratagem on the unit inside, you're using it on the Trukk. The Tukk's special rule Open Topped transfers any modifiers it would suffer/benefit from to the unit inside. That means if the unit inside shoots a unit of Eldar Rangers, they suffer -1 to hit, etc.

More Dakka and Wreckers are not modifiers. If a stratagem granted a +1 to hit or wound or other such modifier from somewhere (I can't remember off the top of my head), it would be passed onto the occupants.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 15:59:52


Post by: flaming tadpole


 BaconCatBug wrote:
You are not using a stratagem on the unit inside, you're using it on the Trukk. The Tukk's special rule Open Topped transfers any modifiers it would suffer/benefit from to the unit inside. That means if the unit inside shoots a unit of Eldar Rangers, they suffer -1 to hit, etc.

More Dakka and Wreckers are not modifiers. If a stratagem granted a +1 to hit or wound or other such modifier from somewhere (I can't remember off the top of my head), it would be passed onto the occupants.

Q: Do Stratagems used on a Transport affect units embarked within that transport?
A: No


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 16:02:32


Post by: BaconCatBug


 flaming tadpole wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
You are not using a stratagem on the unit inside, you're using it on the Trukk. The Tukk's special rule Open Topped transfers any modifiers it would suffer/benefit from to the unit inside. That means if the unit inside shoots a unit of Eldar Rangers, they suffer -1 to hit, etc.

More Dakka and Wreckers are not modifiers. If a stratagem granted a +1 to hit or wound or other such modifier from somewhere (I can't remember off the top of my head), it would be passed onto the occupants.

Q: Do Stratagems used on a Transport affect units embarked within that transport?
A: No
Yes, well done. If you use a Stratagem on a Trukk, the unit inside doesn't benefit from the Stratagem.
The unit inside benefits from the Open Topped rule, which isn't a stratagem.

Why is this so difficult for people to understand?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 16:50:16


Post by: blaktoof


 BaconCatBug wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
You are not using a stratagem on the unit inside, you're using it on the Trukk. The Tukk's special rule Open Topped transfers any modifiers it would suffer/benefit from to the unit inside. That means if the unit inside shoots a unit of Eldar Rangers, they suffer -1 to hit, etc.

More Dakka and Wreckers are not modifiers. If a stratagem granted a +1 to hit or wound or other such modifier from somewhere (I can't remember off the top of my head), it would be passed onto the occupants.

Q: Do Stratagems used on a Transport affect units embarked within that transport?
A: No
Yes, well done. If you use a Stratagem on a Trukk, the unit inside doesn't benefit from the Stratagem.
The unit inside benefits from the Open Topped rule, which isn't a stratagem.

Why is this so difficult for people to understand?


I believe baconcatbug is correct.

Open topped does state it transfers modifiers, and this is a modifier.

For the same reason an unit in a transport would have -1 to hit if the transport had open topped and was more than 12" of an enemy unit that had -1 to hit for units more than 12" away.




No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 16:54:30


Post by: flaming tadpole


blaktoof wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
You are not using a stratagem on the unit inside, you're using it on the Trukk. The Tukk's special rule Open Topped transfers any modifiers it would suffer/benefit from to the unit inside. That means if the unit inside shoots a unit of Eldar Rangers, they suffer -1 to hit, etc.

More Dakka and Wreckers are not modifiers. If a stratagem granted a +1 to hit or wound or other such modifier from somewhere (I can't remember off the top of my head), it would be passed onto the occupants.

Q: Do Stratagems used on a Transport affect units embarked within that transport?
A: No
Yes, well done. If you use a Stratagem on a Trukk, the unit inside doesn't benefit from the Stratagem.
The unit inside benefits from the Open Topped rule, which isn't a stratagem.

Why is this so difficult for people to understand?


I believe baconcatbug is correct.

Open topped does state it transfers modifiers, and this is a modifier.

For the same reason an unit in a transport would have -1 to hit if the transport had open topped and was more than 12" of an enemy unit that had -1 to hit for units more than 12" away.



But that's a stratagem or psychic power being used on the unit your trying to hit not the actual opened topped vehicle itself. I know certain modifiers transfer from opened topped transports to its occupants, but what it sounds like bacon is trying to say is that certain stratagems you use on your transport such as +1 to hit against fly units would transfer to the unit inside when RAI clearly states otherwise.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 17:00:39


Post by: BaconCatBug


 flaming tadpole wrote:
Because you haven't explained your argument well. Right now it sounds like your saying that the opened topped rule somehow overrides the fact that GW explicitly said passengers can't benefit from stratagems used on their transports. Are you talking about stratagems or not?
The open topped rule does not "override" anything. You use a stratagem on the Trukk, the Trukk benefits from the stratagem. The Open Topped rule says any modifiers that apply to the Trukk apply to the passengers.

The passengers are not being affected by the stratagem.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 17:13:36


Post by: flaming tadpole


 BaconCatBug wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
Because you haven't explained your argument well. Right now it sounds like your saying that the opened topped rule somehow overrides the fact that GW explicitly said passengers can't benefit from stratagems used on their transports. Are you talking about stratagems or not?
The open topped rule does not "override" anything. You use a stratagem on the Trukk, the Trukk benefits from the stratagem. The Open Topped rule says any modifiers that apply to the Trukk apply to the passengers.

The passengers are not being affected by the stratagem.
I'm sure there's a case to argue for that RAW wise, but you understand where people are coming from right? The FAQ seems pretty much as straight forward as possible that GW doesn't want stratagems affecting units whether it's from a primary or secondary source. I haven't asked any TO's about it but I would be genuinely surprised if they ruled in favor of the RAW interpretation assuming they've read the FAQ. Could be wrong, but I don't think it's something you should bank on going your way at a tournament. Not that it would matter anyways since if your bringing vehicles right now your not gonna do well regardless.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 17:48:13


Post by: BaconCatBug


... Are you literally saying "I don't like what the rules say, therefore I'll ignore them?"


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 17:57:54


Post by: flandarz


I think it's kind of a moot argument anyway. Only 2 Ork Stratagems in the Codex grant Modifiers.

1) Long Uncontrolled Bursts, used on an Ork Vehicle that can Fly and granted a +1 to-hit against enemy models that Fly.

2) Monster Hunters, used on an enemy model with 10+ Wounds and grants a +1 to Wound to Snakebite models in your army.

The second one targets the enemy, so the FAQ doesn't apply to it. The first one targets the vehicle, so the FAQ would apply.

However, if we assume that Stratagems used on a Transport, even ones granting Modifiers, don't transfer to the occupants regardless of Open-Top stating that Modifiers transfer, then that means any Stratagem that gives out a -1 to hit would ALSO not affect the Orkz inside the Transport.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 18:28:44


Post by: flaming tadpole


 BaconCatBug wrote:
... Are you literally saying "I don't like what the rules say, therefore I'll ignore them?"
No, but apparently you are. The FAQ makes it clear as day how stratagems that YOU use affect the occupants. We're not talking about stratagems your opponent use that affect your transports the argument is about the stratagems YOU use, which the faq states DOES NOT affect the occupants in anyway. What would be the point of them putting that in an FAQ if the openned topped rule simply ignores it?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 18:56:32


Post by: flandarz


Honestly, the wording of Open-Topped and that FAQ makes it very nebulous as to whether or not the unit inside would get the +1.

Open-topped: Models embarked on this model can
attack in their Shooting phase. Measure the range and
draw line of sight from any point on this model. When
they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to
this model also apply to its passengers; for example, the
passengers cannot shoot if this model has Fallen Back
in the same turn, cannot shoot (except with Pistols) if
this model is within 1" of an enemy unit, and so on.

Q: Do Stratagems used on a Transport affect units embarked within that transport?
A: No

It's pretty easy to say that using a Stratagem that gives a modifier on a Transport does not transfer that modifier to the occupants. Also really easy to say that the Stratagem isn't affecting the units embarked, but they're just being subject to any restrictions and modifiers that the Transport is also subject to. Open-Top may need a specific FAQ to address this.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 19:09:56


Post by: BaconCatBug


 flaming tadpole wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
... Are you literally saying "I don't like what the rules say, therefore I'll ignore them?"
No, but apparently you are. The FAQ makes it clear as day how stratagems that YOU use affect the occupants. We're not talking about stratagems your opponent use that affect your transports the argument is about the stratagems YOU use, which the faq states DOES NOT affect the occupants in anyway. What would be the point of them putting that in an FAQ if the openned topped rule simply ignores it?
It's almost like different rules do different things? The open-topped rule is what gives the occupants a bonus, not the stratagem.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/24 19:51:38


Post by: Emicrania


I feel like I lost the thread here, but are we talking about the +1 from freebooterz? Because that is neither a stratagem, neither a modifier, that is a wide army rule.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 00:20:48


Post by: blaktoof


 Emicrania wrote:
I feel like I lost the thread here, but are we talking about the +1 from freebooterz? Because that is neither a stratagem, neither a modifier, that is a wide army rule.


I thought we were discussing the freebooterz rule. It grants a modifer and is not a stratagem so open topped would confer it to the passengers.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 06:51:31


Post by: hollow one


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think we need to accept the reality that Orks just aren't that competitive. Its OK. We have been here before, in many previous editions.

The two lists that finished 16th and 17th are held as some paragons of competitive play. A mono Tau list finished higher. Much higher. As did a mono SM list of all things. The Ork lists that finished 16th and 17th were also piloted by some of the best players of the game bar none.

At the LVO this year our weaknesses were exposed and they are (currently) as follows;
1. An over reliance on stratagems to be effective.
2. No cost effective way to deal with heavy armour.
3. Too fragile without strats.
4. Obvious, simple tactics.
5. Most of our units are too expensive to be competitive therefore our unit choices are obvious and limited. Making counter play easy.

I think its pretty obvious given our results post codex that we are not a competitive army to be feared. Yes good players can take a variation of the same build and perform adequately. But if Nick and Steve can't break top 8, I don't see what else can be done without sweeping points reductions.

2 Ork players in top 50 of LVO.
5 Ork players in top 100 of LVO.

We made up over 10% of the meta.

These numbers don't lie. We need something. Hopefully GW decide to reprice our units in the big FAQ or something. Otherwise we sit as a gatekeeper army at best, a poor army at worst.

One of the best players in the world disagrees with you.
However, the stats look to show 46% overall winrate for Orks.

I expect this is because the army is very complicated to play, but when played well is top tier. I say this in so many words a lot on these forums, but this is a clear case of "git gud". The list has the chops, obviously, the list beats basically anything, its unanimous in the podcast/tourney-scene that the list is good and the "ork-meta" is a real thing. But if you watch Nick's re-enactment of the game vs Alex's flyers , it is seriously complicated. You need to make sure all grots are within a warboss, all lootas are safe and play appropriately around vect, stagger your loota presence, mob up/tide/jump all at the right times without throwing away units, tripoint with grots running across the whole table, be mindful enough to bring the badmoon flamer relic, position weirdboys to get max smite damage etc.

This list does not play itself. Any lesser player would just place the 22 lootas down, mob up, and get wiped by the flyers and vect. When you say "obvious, simple tactics" it just proves to me you don't play this list. And there are likely a lot of orks out there net-listing this list and just losing, not understanding why it is strong or how complicated it is to play.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 07:29:39


Post by: tneva82


Well. Orks aren't showing consistent top positions so...One of the players disagreeing is all fine and dandy. Howabout he show it then with actual evidence and get consistently to top-10's with the orks?

I don't see much top-10 orks. Just the usual imperium soup and eldar soup.

When soup is such an inheritent advantage mono codexes will always struggle. Maybe orks were top level codex if soup wasn't but as it is soup>mono.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 07:56:36


Post by: Sluggaloo


How aren't Orks a top tier codex when two pros commandeering them lost to hard counters by tiny point margins at the lvo. They performed really well. They smashed many other armies as a mono dex. These claims that Orks are gate keeper at best are laughable.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 08:17:48


Post by: PiñaColada


I'm not sure I agree that the flyer list is a hard counter to Orks. You know what's a hard counter to difficult to hit T6 supersonic flyers? S7 weapons that don't suffer negative penalties to hit. Played correctly they're both tough on each other. The super SAG (even hitting on 6's) can still wreck flyers as well as the weirdboyz with super smites.

That matchup is winnable, Brandon Grant won it by basically enduring on the ground and scoring just a bit more. I'm not sure if the Orks vs Flyers spam games are recorded anywhere but I'd be interested to see where it all goes wrong. I wonder if the Ork players overextended their hand T1 and got countered by scatterbikes. I will say that the space elf list looks terrible to play against and consists of almost exclusively undercosted units so there's no shame in losing to it.

Just in general in regards to where Orks stand, I still think it's a bit early to say but I personally doubt they'll be winning any big tournaments. And now with the beta bolter rule being implemented and GSC having dropped I'd assume things are getting worse, not better. I think people forget that unless we get point drops in the March FAQ the LVO were the best conditions Orks were going to get until CA 2019.

But hey, if we see a lot of top players continue running orks at the upcoming big events then that's a good indicator.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 08:37:23


Post by: Sluggaloo


That Eldar flier list shuts down huge board space by just plonking big fat un-assaultable flier bases everywhere. The fact nick lost that game by a point or two is a testament to how good a player he is.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 08:44:08


Post by: tneva82


 Sluggaloo wrote:
How aren't Orks a top tier codex when two pros commandeering them lost to hard counters by tiny point margins at the lvo. They performed really well. They smashed many other armies as a mono dex. These claims that Orks are gate keeper at best are laughable.


Show me string of orks in top-10 and winning tournaments.

People keep claiming orks are such an awesome yet fail to show the numbers. All I see winning tournaments steadily is same old imperial and eldar soups.

Soup>mono. Orks=mono.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 08:55:57


Post by: PiñaColada


 Sluggaloo wrote:
That Eldar flier list shuts down huge board space by just plonking big fat un-assaultable flier bases everywhere. The fact nick lost that game by a point or two is a testament to how good a player he is.

I mean, I get what you're saying, but the ork list should be able to endure and score more. It also has the capability to shoot down between 1-3 flyers a turn so I don't think the matchup is that bad. Kill the DE flyers and the scatterbikes and that list has no real anti-chaff left. I also wonder how much the ork players tried spreading out boyz/grots so the flyers couldn't fly anywhere on the board and thus get destroyed. That's a lot harder with space elf flyers since they can turn twice, but hardly impossible with a green tide. Consider the fact that the Ynnari player went back to reposition his supersonic on camera, in the finale when he had placed them down and moved other units thereafter. I'm just saying, people keep stating that it's so impressive they even got close and that's not my assessment. It's a winnable matchup (this is not me saying I'd win it, just stating there are several avenues to do it.)

But as a general game balance thing, I hope they implement a "rule of three" on supersonic units. Meaning you can't have more than 3 supersonics at 2k, even if they come from different datasheets.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 09:44:28


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 hollow one wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Spoiler:
I think we need to accept the reality that Orks just aren't that competitive. Its OK. We have been here before, in many previous editions.

The two lists that finished 16th and 17th are held as some paragons of competitive play. A mono Tau list finished higher. Much higher. As did a mono SM list of all things. The Ork lists that finished 16th and 17th were also piloted by some of the best players of the game bar none.

At the LVO this year our weaknesses were exposed and they are (currently) as follows;
1. An over reliance on stratagems to be effective.
2. No cost effective way to deal with heavy armour.
3. Too fragile without strats.
4. Obvious, simple tactics.
5. Most of our units are too expensive to be competitive therefore our unit choices are obvious and limited. Making counter play easy.

I think its pretty obvious given our results post codex that we are not a competitive army to be feared. Yes good players can take a variation of the same build and perform adequately. But if Nick and Steve can't break top 8, I don't see what else can be done without sweeping points reductions.

2 Ork players in top 50 of LVO.
5 Ork players in top 100 of LVO.

We made up over 10% of the meta.

These numbers don't lie. We need something. Hopefully GW decide to reprice our units in the big FAQ or something. Otherwise we sit as a gatekeeper army at best, a poor army at worst.


One of the best players in the world disagrees with you.
However, the stats look to show 46% overall winrate for Orks.

I expect this is because the army is very complicated to play, but when played well is top tier. I say this in so many words a lot on these forums, but this is a clear case of "git gud". The list has the chops, obviously, the list beats basically anything, its unanimous in the podcast/tourney-scene that the list is good and the "ork-meta" is a real thing. But if you watch Nick's re-enactment of the game vs Alex's flyers , it is seriously complicated. You need to make sure all grots are within a warboss, all lootas are safe and play appropriately around vect, stagger your loota presence, mob up/tide/jump all at the right times without throwing away units, tripoint with grots running across the whole table, be mindful enough to bring the badmoon flamer relic, position weirdboys to get max smite damage etc.

This list does not play itself. Any lesser player would just place the 22 lootas down, mob up, and get wiped by the flyers and vect. When you say "obvious, simple tactics" it just proves to me you don't play this list. And there are likely a lot of orks out there net-listing this list and just losing, not understanding why it is strong or how complicated it is to play.

Nothing in your link shows Nick Nanavati disagreeing with me. Hard to disagree really, since I’ve provided hard stats that can’t be disagreed with. My comments are largely facts.

“Git Gud” is not a good enough response, I’m afraid. As you’ve hinted - Nick Nanavati is one of the best players in the world and he finished 16th. He also said he has no idea how he would have beaten the flyer list. Furthermore 40k is not exactly the most complicated game to play, particularly now. Those tactics you’ve mentioned, the things you say are oh so complicated that Nick employs are simple and obvious. Keep Grots near warboss to mitigate morale?! Wow. Such advanced tactics. Mob up and Da Jump without throwing away units?! Damn I’d never thought of that! Tripoint!!! Lololol. Bring a relic?! I’d never thought of that!! Oh and ensure Weirdboy is suitably buffed to get max smite. Incredible. And ‘playing around Vect’ means you’re not maximising efficiencies means you don’t win games.

It’s exactly because I know how the list plays that I can say it’s weak and it’s only gotten weaker. I’m not just looking at the LVO meta either, that’s a good benchmark but where I’m looking is future state. Get ready for 20 hand flamers dropping in an army that can Vect. Get ready for marine bikes shooting twice as many shots at those boys. Get ready for easy to include, pre game list tailoring Assassins destroying your Weirdboys (who now can’t max smite if you try to hide), SAG Meks and any other key buffing character.

I have actually spoken to the FLG guys and they maintain that our strongest combos have not yet been found. If there is a top level Ork list, the Loota star isn’t it. Evidently.

E - formatting.

E2 -
 Sluggaloo wrote:
How aren't Orks a top tier codex when two pros commandeering them lost to hard counters by tiny point margins at the lvo. They performed really well. They smashed many other armies as a mono dex. These claims that Orks are gate keeper at best are laughable.

Here’s some facts that directly counter your above statement:

Top Ork finish - 16th
Mono armies that placed higher - Tau, Space Marines.
Numbers of Ork players that went 5-1 - 2.
Numbers of Necron players that went 5-1 - 1.
Numbers of Ork players in top 100 - 5.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 10:35:55


Post by: Jidmah


tneva82 wrote:
 Sluggaloo wrote:
How aren't Orks a top tier codex when two pros commandeering them lost to hard counters by tiny point margins at the lvo. They performed really well. They smashed many other armies as a mono dex. These claims that Orks are gate keeper at best are laughable.


Show me string of orks in top-10 and winning tournaments.

People keep claiming orks are such an awesome yet fail to show the numbers. All I see winning tournaments steadily is same old imperial and eldar soups.

Soup>mono. Orks=mono.


This. Orks feel on the same level as craftworld eldar or guard or admech (which is pretty impressive considering where we came from), but I can't see them beating soups simply because those other armies can add more power from other codices while we can't.

From what I see in my gaming group, GW did a pretty decent job balancing mono-codex armies, it's a shame that those soup rules gak all over that.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 11:32:47


Post by: hollow one


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 hollow one wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Spoiler:
I think we need to accept the reality that Orks just aren't that competitive. Its OK. We have been here before, in many previous editions.

The two lists that finished 16th and 17th are held as some paragons of competitive play. A mono Tau list finished higher. Much higher. As did a mono SM list of all things. The Ork lists that finished 16th and 17th were also piloted by some of the best players of the game bar none.

At the LVO this year our weaknesses were exposed and they are (currently) as follows;
1. An over reliance on stratagems to be effective.
2. No cost effective way to deal with heavy armour.
3. Too fragile without strats.
4. Obvious, simple tactics.
5. Most of our units are too expensive to be competitive therefore our unit choices are obvious and limited. Making counter play easy.

I think its pretty obvious given our results post codex that we are not a competitive army to be feared. Yes good players can take a variation of the same build and perform adequately. But if Nick and Steve can't break top 8, I don't see what else can be done without sweeping points reductions.

2 Ork players in top 50 of LVO.
5 Ork players in top 100 of LVO.

We made up over 10% of the meta.

These numbers don't lie. We need something. Hopefully GW decide to reprice our units in the big FAQ or something. Otherwise we sit as a gatekeeper army at best, a poor army at worst.


One of the best players in the world disagrees with you.
However, the stats look to show 46% overall winrate for Orks.

I expect this is because the army is very complicated to play, but when played well is top tier. I say this in so many words a lot on these forums, but this is a clear case of "git gud". The list has the chops, obviously, the list beats basically anything, its unanimous in the podcast/tourney-scene that the list is good and the "ork-meta" is a real thing. But if you watch Nick's re-enactment of the game vs Alex's flyers , it is seriously complicated. You need to make sure all grots are within a warboss, all lootas are safe and play appropriately around vect, stagger your loota presence, mob up/tide/jump all at the right times without throwing away units, tripoint with grots running across the whole table, be mindful enough to bring the badmoon flamer relic, position weirdboys to get max smite damage etc.

This list does not play itself. Any lesser player would just place the 22 lootas down, mob up, and get wiped by the flyers and vect. When you say "obvious, simple tactics" it just proves to me you don't play this list. And there are likely a lot of orks out there net-listing this list and just losing, not understanding why it is strong or how complicated it is to play.

Nothing in your link shows Nick Nanavati disagreeing with me. Hard to disagree really, since I’ve provided hard stats that can’t be disagreed with. My comments are largely facts.

“Git Gud” is not a good enough response, I’m afraid. As you’ve hinted - Nick Nanavati is one of the best players in the world and he finished 16th. He also said he has no idea how he would have beaten the flyer list. Furthermore 40k is not exactly the most complicated game to play, particularly now. Those tactics you’ve mentioned, the things you say are oh so complicated that Nick employs are simple and obvious. Keep Grots near warboss to mitigate morale?! Wow. Such advanced tactics. Mob up and Da Jump without throwing away units?! Damn I’d never thought of that! Tripoint!!! Lololol. Bring a relic?! I’d never thought of that!! Oh and ensure Weirdboy is suitably buffed to get max smite. Incredible. And ‘playing around Vect’ means you’re not maximising efficiencies means you don’t win games.

It’s exactly because I know how the list plays that I can say it’s weak and it’s only gotten weaker. I’m not just looking at the LVO meta either, that’s a good benchmark but where I’m looking is future state. Get ready for 20 hand flamers dropping in an army that can Vect. Get ready for marine bikes shooting twice as many shots at those boys. Get ready for easy to include, pre game list tailoring Assassins destroying your Weirdboys (who now can’t max smite if you try to hide), SAG Meks and any other key buffing character.

I have actually spoken to the FLG guys and they maintain that our strongest combos have not yet been found. If there is a top level Ork list, the Loota star isn’t it. Evidently.

E - formatting.

E2 -
 Sluggaloo wrote:
How aren't Orks a top tier codex when two pros commandeering them lost to hard counters by tiny point margins at the lvo. They performed really well. They smashed many other armies as a mono dex. These claims that Orks are gate keeper at best are laughable.

Here’s some facts that directly counter your above statement:

Top Ork finish - 16th
Mono armies that placed higher - Tau, Space Marines.
Numbers of Ork players that went 5-1 - 2.
Numbers of Necron players that went 5-1 - 1.
Numbers of Ork players in top 100 - 5.

You think the player who is in the argument of best player in the world, was 1st in ITC coming into LVO, and the only currently sponsored 40k player, chooses to play orks because they are not the best chance he has to win? Like maybe he picks it because Eldar are better but he's tired of winning. At the end of his recap video as well he says he will play orks again, and considers the flyer list the only list in the tournament that might have given him a challenge, and he lost to that list by 1 point.

You watch that video of his re-enactment. Pause the game before he starts explaining each turn and tell me if you get his movement and psychic phase correct. Games are way more complicated than you are giving it credit, even for a point and shoot army like imperial knights there are real decisions being made. This army is complicated thanks to the freedom of choice. You can have any unit on basically any part of the board at will every psychic phase. That is a lot of decision making that people feth up.

And look, I might have hit a nerve when saying git gud, but I'm just gonna double down okay? Deep striking hand flamers are not relevant vs a loota star if you use your grots properly, and your support characters can hide and cast da jump very comfortably PLUS you can grot sheild snipers. Any yeah, anti-horde weapons are a thing, but bike also are outranged by lootas and die really easily to two damage weapons. You don't know what you're doing with this list, period. I'd expect this degree of complaints from semper, I mean seriously... we literally have one of the best lists in the game.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 12:03:43


Post by: PiñaColada


How do we know it's one of the best lists in the game? The LVO placements are 16&17 and those are good/great but again, before beta bolters and GSC. You can argue how much either of those will affect Orks but any impact will skew negative.

Look Nick Nanavati is a great player, no doubt, but he's also really confident in his own abilities (as he should be) that does not mean that we should automatically treat his opinion as fact. People make mistakes at the highest level all the time, look at any professional sport and you'd find that out quickly. Those guys are also professionals (and obviously with much better training and resources) so his explanations, while sound in logic, might not be the only move to make let alone the correct one. I personally think an Ork horde with lootas are countered by several armies quite well and I don't think this list will shake up the meta. Could I be wrong? Ab-so-lute-ly! But to state as a fact that it's one of the best lists in the game when the evidence isn't there yet is also wrong (at least depending on your definitions of "one of the best")

I also doubt the loota strategy will last. GSC brings a few wyverns, they target your lootas. You grot shield said lootas and then they "vect" that. Lootas die in droves. And that list probably won't be rare, seeing as how non-LoS weapons are great in ITC and Tyranid soup in general is looking strong.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 13:16:24


Post by: Coh Magnussen


Kans and grot tanks can't tellyport can they? Curse you GW for gimping the non-infantry grots! (Really wish they'd made an 'unkultured' modifier rather than blanketing ALL gretchin with the nerfhammer)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 13:27:52


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 hollow one wrote:

You think the player who is in the argument of best player in the world, was 1st in ITC coming into LVO, and the only currently sponsored 40k player, chooses to play orks because they are not the best chance he has to win? Like maybe he picks it because Eldar are better but he's tired of winning. At the end of his recap video as well he says he will play orks again, and considers the flyer list the only list in the tournament that might have given him a challenge, and he lost to that list by 1 point.

I think the facts speak for themselves and as much as a good player as Nick is he is not the be all, end all of competitive 40k knowledge. He was #1 ITC until he decided to run Orks at LVO and he dropped to 3rd. Interesting how his stance has changed or you’re tweaking it to suit your argument because at the LVO he didn’t just say the flyer list would ‘give him a challenge’ he said he had no idea how he could have beaten it. I don’t know or care why he picked Orks. I’m sure, if he wants to be the best competitive 40k player, he will quickly realise they aren’t the faction for him.

You watch that video of his re-enactment. Pause the game before he starts explaining each turn and tell me if you get his movement and psychic phase correct. Games are way more complicated than you are giving it credit, even for a point and shoot army like imperial knights there are real decisions being made. This army is complicated thanks to the freedom of choice. You can have any unit on basically any part of the board at will every psychic phase. That is a lot of decision making that people feth up.
It’s not just a decision to feth up. Chess clocks now exist so some of these plays because a problem because they are massive time sinks.

And look, I might have hit a nerve when saying git gud, but I'm just gonna double down okay? Deep striking hand flamers are not relevant vs a loota star if you use your grots properly, and your support characters can hide and cast da jump very comfortably PLUS you can grot sheild snipers. Any yeah, anti-horde weapons are a thing, but bike also are outranged by lootas and die really easily to two damage weapons. You don't know what you're doing with this list, period. I'd expect this degree of complaints from semper, I mean seriously... we literally have one of the best lists in the game.
You haven’t hit a nerve by saying ‘git gud’, you’ve hit a nerve by repeatedly stating obviously incorrect things and throwing personal attacks around. We literally have a list that finishes 16th when piloted by one of the best 40k players of recent history. Not what I’d call ‘best in the game’, take your hyperbole elsewhere. Hand flamers kill your Boyz mate? They make those 40 teleporting Boyz hit a wall of flame and die. Lol it’s obvious you have no idea what changes are coming to the meta. The Vindicare (sniper) can target 2 characters in one phase. Good luck Grot Shielding both. Oh please tell me how you use these Weirdboys to ‘maximum smite effect’ like Mr Nanavati tells you to while simultaneously keeping them hidden from snipers? Magic? The same magic you use to do Grot Shields twice in the same phase? And finally, most obviously, you can’t Grot Shield anything if it is Vect’d. Which it will be. Every damn game against GSC/Nids and Aeldari. Until Imperium and Chaos get their equivalent of course. This is all forgetting those double damage bolsters at max range that every Astartes just got for free.

It seems to me that you have no idea what you’re talking about.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 15:00:32


Post by: CaptainO


Waaaghbert wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
Waaaghbert wrote:
Spoiler:
CaptainO wrote:
Waaaghbert wrote:
 The Shrike wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
Anyone tried a quad kustom mega blaster deff dread as part of a dredd waagh.

8 x kustom blasta shots for 91pts.... Bad moonz make sense with the reroll 1s.


Not a math guy by any means but wouldn’t Deathskulls make more sense? It’s a single model unit; so if you take say 3 solos to fill out a Brigade; each one gets to reroll a hit, wound and damage and gets a 6++ on top...


I think your right at least for the regular 4 shots. I did some quick maths and DS is better even if you consider only hitting, so is actually far superior if you factor in the one reroll for wounding and damage, not even considering the 6++.

simplified, 4 dice give you ~0,66 ones, so only 0,66 rerolls whereas DS give you one reroll flat.

I only calculated this for 4 shots because I don't think it is worth it useing the Strat on one Deffdread and I don't think it is possible to use it on a squadron since they act indepentently after deployment as far as I know.



I'd be taking the quad kustom shoota deff dread, a Super SAG Mek and 2 x smasha gunz for a 237 point spearhead bad moon dreed waagh specialist detachment. My logic is that both the dread and Mek could double shoot and I have redundancy in the event I get Veckt'd or whatever the GSC equivalent is.

If you double shoot with the quad blasta dread you're likely to get 1.33 1s a go. You could argue that the dredds shooting doesn't degrade so its less of an issue if he loses wounds to overheating. I don't know if I'd take the dredd if I couldn't double shoot him and if I take that spearhead as Deathskulls then either the Mek or the dredd could shoot twice...


Hm, the shoot twice strat on the deff dread nets you 0,7 more wounds against a T8 target, so I'm not sure it is worth spending 2 CPs for that. And I dont think any opponent is gonna Vect this.


The shoot twice strat will surely double the number of wounds it causes to whatever target it shoots at.

Dark eldar or GSC probably wouldn't bother vecting the deff dread but they might Vect the Super SAG Killa Mek firing twice (particularly good against Talos) SInce you can only vect once per phase the ability to use either kustom ammo or showing off gives redundancy. If they don't vect you have the option to use it on the dread.



Hm, maybe I'm not getting this right. But you basically have two arguments:
1) using them as Bad moons gives you the shoot twice start twice, thus creating redundancy. This I agree on, IF you'll use it on the Souped up SAG, wich leads me to ...
2) you think using Shoot twice on the dread is a good idea. This I disagree with. Of course you'll double the wounds, but one wound doubled is only one wound more and I dont think 1 wound is worth 2 CPs.

If I got this wrong and misunderstood you, I'm sorry, but there would be close to no situation where shoot twice on that Dread would be a good idea.


You got me. Against a T8 opponent you're right that it wouldn't do well but against T4-7 it would be pretty good. TEQ or Talos for example.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I expect this is because the army is very complicated to play, but when played well is top tier. I say this in so many words a lot on these forums, but this is a clear case of "git gud". The list has the chops, obviously, the list beats basically anything, its unanimous in the podcast/tourney-scene that the list is good and the "ork-meta" is a real thing. But if you watch Nick's re-enactment of the game vs Alex's flyers , it is seriously complicated. You need to make sure all grots are within a warboss, all lootas are safe and play appropriately around vect, stagger your loota presence, mob up/tide/jump all at the right times without throwing away units, tripoint with grots running across the whole table, be mindful enough to bring the badmoon flamer relic, position weirdboys to get max smite damage etc.

This list does not play itself. Any lesser player would just place the 22 lootas down, mob up, and get wiped by the flyers and vect. When you say "obvious, simple tactics" it just proves to me you don't play this list. And there are likely a lot of orks out there net-listing this list and just losing, not understanding why it is strong or how complicated it is to play.


I agree with you 100%. Are people not winning with orks?!?!?! If I lose a game its been because I messed up or my opponent out played me. I've never felt it was because the orks were under powered. So maybe the loota star isn't the unstoppable force it was hoped to be. We've only had the codex just over 3 months! If the only good thing from that book was discovered within a month with minimal experimentation it would be a bad book.There are definitely hidden gems within, that over time will pop up. There's a certain amount of victim mentality. Git Gud

Also thanks for that link. Really interesting and useful. Some would say exactly what should be on a tactics thread about orks....


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 15:43:30


Post by: flandarz


I agree with what Jidmah and the others have been saying. In a world where soup didn't exist, Orkz would have finished LVO in top spots. It's hard to compete against lists that can cherry-pick the cheapest and best units amongst multiple codices.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 16:05:29


Post by: CaptainO


Orks have multiple lists that can beat the Meta soup list that is Castellan and Guard. Equally the pointy eared soup can and has been beaten by ork lists.

What I'm saying is that there is no list, soup or otherwise that a well piloted ork list can't beat. It could be argued that the imperial knight soup is easier to play but the orks definitely have the tools available to deal with it. They just have to play a bit more kunning.

The main take away from the LVO shouldn't be that the orks didn't finish top ten but that there are a number of lists that cause the current Meta ork list issues and therefore said lists require tweaking and new tactics explored.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 16:31:21


Post by: An Actual Englishman


I’m not sure what the competitive Ork list is going to be post LVO but as pina said I think it’s pretty obvious the upcoming releases hurt us more than most. And it’s not like we’re currently sat at the top tables.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 17:47:35


Post by: flandarz


We do have plenty of options for beating those lists. The issue comes up when you gotta fit those options into a list that can still handle the other options you'll find in a tournament. Making an anti-Castellan list is easy. Making a list that can reliably deal with Castellans, while also handling the variety of other lists out there is what is difficult.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 18:00:56


Post by: G00fySmiley


CaptainO wrote:
Orks have multiple lists that can beat the Meta soup list that is Castellan and Guard. Equally the pointy eared soup can and has been beaten by ork lists.

What I'm saying is that there is no list, soup or otherwise that a well piloted ork list can't beat. It could be argued that the imperial knight soup is easier to play but the orks definitely have the tools available to deal with it. They just have to play a bit more kunning.

The main take away from the LVO shouldn't be that the orks didn't finish top ten but that there are a number of lists that cause the current Meta ork list issues and therefore said lists require tweaking and new tactics explored.


The problem is not that Orks lack the tools to deal with any one list in the top tiers of play... the problem is they cannot effectively build a list that can reliably deal with all of the lists at the top level of play.

I venture to agree with what a few others have said. We got a great dex, probably one of the stronger single dexes and it can stand toe to toe with any mono faction army... its when you put in force multipliers within soup that things get thrown out the window. When you have custodes and imperial knight armies with strong strategies but only able to generate a few command points it gets balances out... but when the loyal 32 is bringing all the cp they need... well that is another story.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 18:28:51


Post by: juanonymous


Let’s not forget that, leading up to the LVO, orks were perhaps The biggest boogeyman for anyone looking to build a list themed against the meta. Saying orks are bid simply because of the LVO results is a bit too early of an assessment in my opinion. What’s more, isn’t assessing their place in the meta kind of irrelevant to a tactics thread (unless it’s another codex’s thread trying to convince that orks are no big deal), at least without offering solutions to what weaknesses are being cited? Unless the goal is to just shut down the thread?
Sorry, no intention to flame or point fingers at anybody, just an amateur player looking to keep the tactics conversation going


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 20:38:56


Post by: CaptainO


I started taking a warboss with killa klaw on foot rather than on a bike. Partly due to point limitation and partly to remove the temptation to just fire him up the board t1. His cracking skullz means if you conga line da jumped boyz back to him theyll stay around even if they get shot to hell. Also His ability to fight again (all be it for 3cp) means the enemy has to take him out.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 21:11:04


Post by: xlDuke


CaptainO wrote:
I started taking a warboss with killa klaw on foot rather than on a bike. Partly due to point limitation and partly to remove the temptation to just fire him up the board t1. His cracking skullz means if you conga line da jumped boyz back to him theyll stay around even if they get shot to hell. Also His ability to fight again (all be it for 3cp) means the enemy has to take him out.


Having access to Get Stuck In Ladz is definitely the best reason to run a Warboss on foot. Sometimes the Bikeboss can fight once and not kill what he charged, then just have the enemy attack the other unit you have in combat with it instead of the Bikeboss (to avoid Orks is Neva Beaten) and Fall Back and shoot the Bikeboss instead of staying in melee for the next fight phase. Mostly an issue with Knights/Super-Heavys really, not much else is likely to survive that first round of attacks if you're using Killa Klaw and Brutal But Kunnin' + Fists of Gork, which you probably are.

Avoiding that eventuality by charging in the Bikeboss alone can make him vulnerable to dying to powerful Overwatch, particularly if he's taken some damage already from a previous fight phase or Snipers.

Generally though I think the Bikebosses are far superior because they only cost slightly more and the extra Movement they have let you leverage their buffs much better as well as pick your combats much more effectively.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 22:59:24


Post by: Emicrania


Does anybody still play the warboss in mega armour?
I was checking out the freebooterz army we posted earlier but I can't find a reason to justify the 23 points difference with the biker boss for simply 2+ instead of a 4+.
Am I missing something here ?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/25 23:08:01


Post by: Vineheart01


MABoss felt overpriced in the index to me and since hes not in the codex he didnt get any help.
I dont see any reason to run one. If he had a baked in invul, maybe, but 2+ armor alone isnt that amazing since the only things that can actually hit him before he kills them first would rip that armor apart anyway.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/26 06:10:10


Post by: Jidmah


A MA warboss is nice for eating overwatch and tying down shooting units. After all, a 2+ is at least as good as a 5++ against most weapons. The killa klaw always goes on a biker boss though.

He is too slow and too expensive though. Without natural ability to deep strike like terminator characters, I'd rather get a relic wartrike to do the same job.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/26 07:23:33


Post by: Sluggaloo


Didn't Orks also have over a dozen lists finishing 4-2 at the lvo? Another thing you all are ignoring are the fact that Orks were one of the lists to beat. Literally every competitive player looking to perform at the lvo had to have an answer to them and the castellan. I.e. people were specifically tailoring their lists to deal with hordes. The top ITC players were running Orks too. I am an Ork player myself, sorry but you guys just come across as biased. We have a strong codex as, with the right lists, it poses a massive headache to even the most competitive of soups.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/26 08:43:28


Post by: PiñaColada


As far as I can see Orks had 13 people go 4-2, which is a really respectable score but hardly something that should easily be quantified as one of the best lists out there.

There were also 131 people who went 4-2 in general and if I remember Ork players were a smidge above 10% of all players represented making that score average.

I'm not, nor do I think anyone here is, saying that Orks are bad. It's just a few of us disputing whether they deserve being lumped in with the absolute top dogs seeing as the evidence for that isn't there.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/26 11:02:03


Post by: An Actual Englishman


PiñaColada wrote:
As far as I can see Orks had 13 people go 4-2, which is a really respectable score but hardly something that should easily be quantified as one of the best lists out there.

There were also 131 people who went 4-2 in general and if I remember Ork players were a smidge above 10% of all players represented making that score average.

I'm not, nor do I think anyone here is, saying that Orks are bad. It's just a few of us disputing whether they deserve being lumped in with the absolute top dogs seeing as the evidence for that isn't there.

Orks had about 8% of the overall players actually, apologies I have since had corrected stats.

10% of our lists going 4-2 certainly isn't bad but it smacks to me of 'gatekeeper' army. We do well to a point which is 4 wins then the losses start rolling in. That's where the real top dogs in the competitive meta lie and unfortunately there are factions that can soup but chose not to and still outperformed Orks in the top 5-1 category.

No one is saying we're a bad faction, but I think its obvious too that we aren't top tier and we never will be as we won't have the option to sure up our weaknesses with other factions' units. If we were a mono faction with very few/no weaknesses, like, for example, Guard, then we'd be OK. Unfortunately our weaknesses are too vast for us to be a true top tier army.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/26 11:29:15


Post by: PiñaColada


It's also worth noting that not all 4-2 scores are equal. If you lose the first game then you're already out of the running to face the true killers in that tournament. Winning the first 4 games and then losing your last 2 means you've done really well until you faced the true top tier lists. It's still impressive seeing as you've beaten at least one or two really strong lists.

Losing your first 2 and then winning your last four means that you won against other fluffy lists. At least in simplistic terms..


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/26 12:38:16


Post by: G00fySmiley


on the mega armor warboss. I actually on my foot ork list run a mega armored big mek with kff and then a normal warboss on foot , though even in that "foot list" i run another warboss on a bike along with 2 painboys on bikes to spread feel no pain and waaaaghhs


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/26 15:28:29


Post by: mhalko1


I know this would create room for abuse but what is the result of xenos armies gaining the xenos keyword. I know people would spam the best units from multiple codices but isn't that kind of how imperium works now. it allows the current soup abuse. I'd be curious to see the result of a tournament that implement this small change.

Now I can't see GW doing this as it would prevent the collection of a brand new army and filling out the various choices.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/26 15:49:17


Post by: G00fySmiley


mhalko1 wrote:
I know this would create room for abuse but what is the result of xenos armies gaining the xenos keyword. I know people would spam the best units from multiple codices but isn't that kind of how imperium works now. it allows the current soup abuse. I'd be curious to see the result of a tournament that implement this small change.

Now I can't see GW doing this as it would prevent the collection of a brand new army and filling out the various choices.


the biggest issue would be fluff reasons, but ulimatly that is why age of sigmar threw the lore for a loop for thier alliances.

honestly if tau, necrons and orks could ally they would compliment each other quite well.

fluff wise newcrons are coming back to the civilised galaxy and could ally tau, and ghaz could work out something with the tau


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/26 19:15:56


Post by: gungo


I don’t see orks submitting themselves to tau rule whatsoever.
And that’s exactly what tau requires.

Tau should ally in guard just like genecults.

Necrons should ally with admech... as they seem to like to work together

Orks should ally with chaos demons as they have some lore that suggests this happens. Specifically khorne and nurgle.

It would take substantially more work but allies should be limited like the genecult limits guards as allies. That would solve a lot of the current soup issues but still allow allies to be meaningful.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/27 01:43:53


Post by: cody.d.


Orks should ally with chaos demons as they have some lore that suggests this happens. Specifically khorne and nurgle.


Hilariously it would fit the fluff. Back in second edition there was indeed Khorne worshiping Orks and even a story listing the universes least lucky genestealer cult that just so happened to infect some orks.

If there was a faction that could work as universal allies it would be Orks. I'm honestly surprised Blood Axes didn't get that as a trait or rule, being the ultimate mercenary group.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/02/27 03:22:42


Post by: blaktoof


It would be sweet if they made a Grot codex, and really fleshed out the grot range like goblins in AoS but for 40k.

Would give ally options for orks.