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Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/11 13:35:14


Post by: Asmodai


Secondaries may not even exist in the ITC Champion's Mission in a month.

No sense railing on about how much you don't like them when the next set of missions should be out soon.

Save your energy to complain about those.

In the meantime, I'm focusing my Sisters on general effectiveness regardless of the specific mission-type. Even in CA missions, the Geminae are still easy prey to the ever-present Eliminators and give up victory points in Four Pillars (though they could be great for racking up high scores in Ascension).


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/11 16:36:36


Post by: Salted Diamond


ERJAK wrote:
Spoiler:
 Grundz wrote:
 SisterSydney wrote:
I appreciate the insights. So what’s the best way — or the least bad way — to run mech Sisters now? 10-girl BSS with combi-flamer, two meltaguns, and maybe imagifer-plus-cherub in Rhino?


valorous heart, three imagifiers, play musical chairs with one or two of them so the transports dont outrun the aura. make one your warlord with the book and indomitable belief and keep him out of LOS or with celestians

mostly rhinos or repressors, one or two immolators because they are handy.
a second detachment of bloody rose where you stack all your seraphim and/or zeraphim


Don't run combi-flamer. On anything. Holy Trinity is a trap an a waste of CP.



I run a few combi-flamers only because I have a couple of the old metal superiors with combi-flamers that were OOP long before the rest of the metal line went away, and I like their look to much to shelf them. I agree that Holy Trinity is not usually worth it, but just knowing that I have it has made an opponent or 2 think twice about getting too close.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/11 17:07:05


Post by: Rogerio134134


Anyone run sisters squads with combi melta and 2 meltas just running around being annoying? Seems quite a dangerous unit to be knocking about.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/11 17:08:50


Post by: Ragnar Blackmane


 Salted Diamond wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
Spoiler:
 Grundz wrote:
 SisterSydney wrote:
I appreciate the insights. So what’s the best way — or the least bad way — to run mech Sisters now? 10-girl BSS with combi-flamer, two meltaguns, and maybe imagifer-plus-cherub in Rhino?


valorous heart, three imagifiers, play musical chairs with one or two of them so the transports dont outrun the aura. make one your warlord with the book and indomitable belief and keep him out of LOS or with celestians

mostly rhinos or repressors, one or two immolators because they are handy.
a second detachment of bloody rose where you stack all your seraphim and/or zeraphim


Don't run combi-flamer. On anything. Holy Trinity is a trap an a waste of CP.



I run a few combi-flamers only because I have a couple of the old metal superiors with combi-flamers that were OOP long before the rest of the metal line went away, and I like their look to much to shelf them. I agree that Holy Trinity is not usually worth it, but just knowing that I have it has made an opponent or 2 think twice about getting too close.

I've got one of those old metal Superiors too and have been running her as a Combi-Melta without issue. The muzzle of the weapon looks so radically different from the new flamethrower muzzles that most people would have to look thrice in order not to mistake it for a melta, and that only after I told them about it. It's much more obvious with the metal battle sister with the regular flamer, mostly because most of the gun and particularly the fuel drum still look like a flamer does across factions.

IMO having a hand flamer if you have even only one melta gal in the squad is worth it just because you might get the benefit of holy trinity for 1 point (and when are you ever going to fire that bolt pistol anyways), and as mentioned before Holy Trinity is very easy to trigger and VERY deadly on Ebon Chalice Heavy Flamer Rets.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/11 17:19:19


Post by: Salted Diamond


Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone run sisters squads with combi melta and 2 meltas just running around being annoying? Seems quite a dangerous unit to be knocking about.


I miss doing this with Dominons. 4 meltas with a combi-melta superior outflanking in a MM Immolator to pop tanks and artillery. Opponents could not afford to ignore them running around their backfield. Good old days.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/11 17:58:18


Post by: davidgr33n


Dominions are better now with Stormbolters due to their Blessed Bolts stratagem.

I run my Sister troop units with 2 meltaguns or bare.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/11 20:13:03


Post by: MacPhail


If I had a regular opponent who relied on lots of super heavies, I could see running mounted melta Doms with a combi flamer and Trinity to increase the wound range on high T targets... but only then. Mostly my melta lives in BSS double or triple melta squads. I'm still messing with the allocation of Simulacra to bring MDs into play... and my next deliberate melta bomb will actually be a Rhino full of Celestians with triple melta, stratagem options, Canoness rerolls, and a Simulacrum for damage output.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

IMO having a hand flamer if you have even only one melta gal in the squad is worth it just because you might get the benefit of holy trinity for 1 point (and when are you ever going to fire that bolt pistol anyways), and as mentioned before Holy Trinity is very easy to trigger and VERY deadly on Ebon Chalice Heavy Flamer Rets.


I want to think-- but haven't tried to prove-- that either a 10x Seraphim with both specials or a 15x BSS (can a Superior wield one of each pistol?) with both could deal some hurt with Bloody Rose, Divine Guidance, and Holy Trinity. Either one of those would have around 15 or so S4 3+ shots wounding on 3s or at worst 4s with -1 or -2AP. The pistol range is the limiting factor, but if you can get past that you can pull the same stunt in melee. Also, now I want to build an inferno/hand flamer gunslinger Sister... Emperor bless these plastic models!

Edit: I guess my gunslinger will never be... only the Seraphim can do pistols across the board, so a BSS can't use Trinity in melee.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/11 21:59:07


Post by: SisterSydney


I took folks' advice -- well, up to a point -- and played around with Battlescribe to create a 1,500-point, single-battalion mech Sisters list (1,486pts, so I can add an upgrade somewhere). I know it's suboptimal, but is it suicidal?

Spoiler:
Canoness w/ power sword & Rod of Office (Warlord); vanilla Canoness, 2 Imagifiers, Repentia Mistress, Preacher

3 Battle Sister Squads in Rhinos, each with:
- Superior w/ storm bolter (Legends, yeah, I know)
- Heavy Flamer sister
- Meltagun sister
- Simulacrum sister & Cherub
- 5 boltgun sisters
9 bodies, so each Rhino can take a Canoness or an Imagifer

1 Repentia Squad in Rhino:
- 7 Repentia
- remaining 3 seats go to Mistress, Preacher, & Imagifier

3 Exorcists


The idea is the Exorcists sit back (hopefully in cover) to provide long-range anti-tank/monster/daemon fire while the four Rhinos rush forward, one hurtling the reinforced Repentia at something the enemy really cares about while the three BSS squads go for objectives, hopefully in cover and close enough together they can provide mutual supporting fires.

I'm strongly tempted to go with Ebon Chalice for the Miracle Dice shenanigans and the boost to the range of all those Heavy Flamers. (Still getting used to being able to fire those after moving in this edition -- obviously they don't care about -1 to hit).


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/11 22:02:16


Post by: Taikishi


 MacPhail wrote:
If I had a regular opponent who relied on lots of super heavies, I could see running mounted melta Doms with a combi flamer and Trinity to increase the wound range on high T targets... but only then. Mostly my melta lives in BSS double or triple melta squads. I'm still messing with the allocation of Simulacra to bring MDs into play... and my next deliberate melta bomb will actually be a Rhino full of Celestians with triple melta, stratagem options, Canoness rerolls, and a Simulacrum for damage output.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

IMO having a hand flamer if you have even only one melta gal in the squad is worth it just because you might get the benefit of holy trinity for 1 point (and when are you ever going to fire that bolt pistol anyways), and as mentioned before Holy Trinity is very easy to trigger and VERY deadly on Ebon Chalice Heavy Flamer Rets.


I want to think-- but haven't tried to prove-- that either a 10x Seraphim with both specials or a 15x BSS (can a Superior wield one of each pistol?) with both could deal some hurt with Bloody Rose, Divine Guidance, and Holy Trinity. Either one of those would have around 15 or so S4 3+ shots wounding on 3s or at worst 4s with -1 or -2AP. The pistol range is the limiting factor, but if you can get past that you can pull the same stunt in melee. Also, now I want to build an inferno/hand flamer gunslinger Sister... Emperor bless these plastic models!

Edit: I guess my gunslinger will never be... only the Seraphim can do pistols across the board, so a BSS can't use Trinity in melee.


I still don't think HT will be worth it, but I'm curious how that sims out. 15 bolt pistols, 2 hand flamers, 2 inferno pistols,and 1 plasma pistol with and without Bloody Rose. With and without Divine Guidance.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/11 22:49:19


Post by: Jancoran


Lemondish wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
Well, I am sick of hearing people go on about "house rules". The ITC is as I said 40% larger than last year and was 30% larger the year before. The ETC debacle has made ITC even more ascendant for competitive play and it wouldn't shock me to see 21,000 ranked players in 2020. A stunning number.

I'm not telling anyone they need to prefer ITC missions. Opinions are cool. Its just the bitchiness I have a hard time with. Its just not necessary to endlessly bitch. Fer serious.

I'm the TO here and I include book missions sometimes for variety and it goes fine. The ITC allows for it. Ask your TO to do it. Maybe he will.


Part of the reason folks are so vehemently opposed to ITC is largely because of its poorly designed secondaries. That format further exacerbates inherent balance issues. Look at the top IH list from LVO and you'll see just how skewed it can get. It denies kill secondaries so well, forcing your opponent to seek board control opportunities instead, which are then countered by an IH castle destroying you.

It is a list tailor made for that style of event. Whereas if you look at top lists at Caledonia Uprising, you'll see a variety of units that never in a million years would be found in an ITC event because they give up easy secondaries.

In a tactics thread, ITC talk is relevant only in the context of ITC events. If a unit is being dumped on entirely and only because of its ITC impact, then I think it's fair to call that out. I suppose it's a good thing that this isn't the case here.

There are 5 other, better reasons not to consider them competitively before you get to the ITC impact.


Yeah I think you're vastly overestimsting the impact on lists thst ITC makes. Heres the thing. People are always maximizing to kill above slmost any consideration and to not be killed because even in normal 40k you have Kill point missions.

Normal 40k is take objectives, dont die snd kill stuff inbetween. None of that is changed other than progressive scoring.

What progressive scoring changed was the castle-up and strike-late nature of pre-ITC lists. Then you complain when someone essentially does what youd have done in pre-itc missions. Ironic, is it not?

Progressive scoring forces more action. Truly that IS the main change. You have to risk units to get objective points more than you would. Killing stuff is still the goal. Staying alive: still the goal. All youve done in ITC is forced the action.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/11 23:50:24


Post by: Lemondish


Jancoran 782941 10714239 66baa75f91db93a336dae762c1d40003.png] wrote:
Yeah I think you're vastly overestimsting the impact on lists thst ITC makes. Heres the thing. People are always maximizing to kill above slmost any consideration and to not be killed because even in normal 40k you have Kill point missions.

Normal 40k is take objectives, dont die snd kill stuff inbetween. None of that is changed other than progressive scoring.

What progressive scoring changed was the castle-up and strike-late nature of pre-ITC lists. Then you complain when someone essentially does what youd have done in pre-itc missions. Ironic, is it not?

Progressive scoring forces more action. Truly that IS the main change. You have to risk units to get objective points more than you would. Killing stuff is still the goal. Staying alive: still the goal. All youve done in ITC is forced the action.


I don't think I am - because it isn't about just killing in ITC. It's also about the units you kill. Let's analyze a couple lists real quick before I drop the topic and get back to sisters chat. Sorry but there is no way I can agree that ITC doesn't have abusive format elements. Those kill secondaries heavily influence list building and what units are viable or not, but only for that format.

The LVO Winning List, for instance...

Marked for Death: An inefficient choice because there are only 2 10m Intercessor squads and 4 Dreadnoughts, 3 of which are characters and all of them nigh impossible to kill.

Gang Busters, Titan Slayer, and Reaper: No viable targets

Big Game Hunter: 4 unkillable dreadnoughts, 3 of which are characters.

Pick your Poison: only 1 possible option.

Kingslayer: the Levi is possible but it only gives up 3 points base (so it needs to be healed to get all 4 points) and its nigh impossible to kill.

Headhunter: 2 non-dread Characters in the army. GL with that.

So you're left with Butchers Bill. Which is possible but not easy to do for 4 turns while an IH army is tearing you a new one. You're likely to run out of firepower before they do. So the format has created a scenario where an already powerful army is now forcing you to move to maximize points, all the while they get to punish you for it.

Now compare that to the list that came second at the Caladonian Open which uses ETC rules. Compared to the LVO winner this has 8 units possible for Marked for Death, 5 of which are not characters, 3 of which are extremely squishy. The warrior unit alone is 5 Gang Buster points, the Hive Guard are another 3. The Prime (who was warlord) gives up full King Slayer points. Headhunter is viable against 3 pretty squishy GSC characters and the Broodlord and Patriarchs are going to have to come forward to do work naturally anyway. Butchers Bill has plenty of viable squishy units of GEQ.

So on one hand we have a Marine list that has almost no viable kill secondary targets forcing you to pick objective based ones that then force you to come out into the open to claim them where the Marines can kill you. And on the other, a Tyranid list that gives up 5 'easy' kill secondaries to pick against it so the opponent can castle up on 1 objective for Hold every turn and just win by outscoring on secondaries.

The Nid list isn't very viable in ITC "because it gives up too many secondaries". But it absolutely is viable in 40k.

There are some poor units in the sisters codex that are like that as well. It's likely what you'll hear about the downsides of things like Exorcists, Retributors, Mortifiers, et al. In ITC, their baseline weaknesses are exacerbated because they can give up those secondary points without always being able to achieve the same impact.

And as such, those secondaries will change the viability of a unit between ITC and 40k. Which was all my point was.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/12 00:12:12


Post by: Jancoran


"Nigh impossible to kill" doesnt truly exist. Lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lemondish wrote:

The LVO Winning List, for instance...

Marked for Death: An inefficient choice because there are only 2 10m Intercessor squads and 4 Dreadnoughts, 3 of which are characters and all of them nigh impossible to kill.

Gang Busters, Titan Slayer, and Reaper: No viable targets

Big Game Hunter: 4 unkillable dreadnoughts, 3 of which are characters.

Pick your Poison: only 1 possible option.

Kingslayer: the Levi is possible but it only gives up 3 points base (so it needs to be healed to get all 4 points) and its nigh impossible to kill.

Headhunter: 2 non-dread Characters in the army. GL with that.

So you're left with Butchers Bill. Which is possible but not easy to do for 4 turns while an IH army is tearing you a new one. You're likely to run out of firepower before they do. So the format has created a scenario where an already powerful army is now forcing you to move to maximize points, all the while they get to punish you for it.

Now compare that to the list that came second at the Caladonian Open which uses ETC rules. Compared to the LVO winner this has 8 units possible for Marked for Death, 5 of which are not characters, 3 of which are extremely squishy. The warrior unit alone is 5 Gang Buster points, the Hive Guard are another 3. The Prime (who was warlord) gives up full King Slayer points. Headhunter is viable against 3 pretty squishy GSC characters and the Broodlord and Patriarchs are going to have to come forward to do work naturally anyway. Butchers Bill has plenty of viable squishy units of GEQ.

So on one hand we have a Marine list that has almost no viable kill secondary targets forcing you to pick objective based ones that then force you to come out into the open to claim them where the Marines can kill you. And on the other, a Tyranid list that gives up 5 'easy' kill secondaries to pick against it so the opponent can castle up on 1 objective for Hold every turn and just win by outscoring on secondaries.

The Nid list isn't very viable in ITC "because it gives up too many secondaries". But it absolutely is viable in 40k.

There are some poor units in the sisters codex that are like that as well. It's likely what you'll hear about the downsides of things like Exorcists, Retributors, Mortifiers, et al. In ITC, their baseline weaknesses are exacerbated because they can give up those secondary points without always being able to achieve the same impact.

And as such, those secondaries will change the viability of a unit between ITC and 40k. Which was all my point was.


what people took and what people COULD HAVE TAKEN AND STILL WON is not proven here.

I understand what you're TRYING to say. You're TRYING to suggest that a custom mission that didn't specifically say "GW wrote it" is somehow different than a custom mission that says "GW wrote it"... even though there are a plethora of those.

Um...

I'd also point out that if your opponent TOOK every secondary from me... which changed the score from 36-16 all the way to 36-22, who really cares? Its what I score that's more important than what you score.

Look. none of the rules for 40K really changed. ITC doesnt even have house rules. All they have are custom missions and in any given mission, written by GW...or not written by GW... may favor a certain unit. That's why you build your army to handle multiple things instead of trying to foretell the exact mission it will be.

GW's stamp doesnt make that multiplicity of missions they put out NOT favor a certain unit here and there. So what are you arguing? You're basically just griping that you cannot adjust or dont want to adjust. But the reality is you can and you should.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Asmodai wrote:
Secondaries may not even exist in the ITC Champion's Mission in a month.

No sense railing on about how much you don't like them when the next set of missions should be out soon.

Save your energy to complain about those.

In the meantime, I'm focusing my Sisters on general effectiveness regardless of the specific mission-type. Even in CA missions, the Geminae are still easy prey to the ever-present Eliminators and give up victory points in Four Pillars (though they could be great for racking up high scores in Ascension).


All of us TO's are hashing out the pros and cons on the new missions as we speak, by the way. A lot of ideas have been shared and bandied and battered and such. I think some very appealing changes are coming.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/12 03:32:29


Post by: Melissia


As I'm planning out my list, I'm starting to lean more and more towards just stuffing squads in to Rhinos instead of Immolators. I really want to like Immolators, but...


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/12 06:50:48


Post by: Jancoran


 Melissia wrote:
As I'm planning out my list, I'm starting to lean more and more towards just stuffing squads in to Rhinos instead of Immolators. I really want to like Immolators, but...


I've defaulted to Rhinos since basically the Web Codex in 6th.

Immolators were good at one thing which was delivering Dominion and then also being able to charge things to defend dominion, after unloading the pain train on the enemy. Great for it.

Index made Rhinos great again. Beta Codex the same. New codex the same.

At end of day it's because extra bodies are totes worth it in a Sisters army. You're not really overpaying for the protection. Bolters do real damage. 3+ armor IS no joke. Kinda the gold standard for reasonably priced models. And with larger units just making snese, it is indeed hard to justify the smaller capacity.

Immolators pack a punch on a hardened chassis and that isn't nothing. Dreadnoughts prove all the time the value of it. But unless you are committed to the Argent Shroud, the Immolators may be a tax.

Argent Shroud tho. I dunno' if anyone is experimenting with it but I've been using it. Haven't gone whole log with an entire army that way, just a detachment. I have to say tho, it is pretty darn good at its job. I think it would really surprise some people if you played to its strengths. Pardon the pun but I've gotten serious mileage from them.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/12 07:18:50


Post by: davidgr33n


If you could charge after advancing I’d give Argent Shroud a try. But being as foot Sisters want to be in cover as much as possible, I think the ability is going to be of limited use.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/12 09:28:00


Post by: Mellon


 SisterSydney wrote:
I took folks' advice -- well, up to a point -- and played around with Battlescribe to create a 1,500-point, single-battalion mech Sisters list (1,486pts, so I can add an upgrade somewhere). I know it's suboptimal, but is it suicidal?

Spoiler:
Canoness w/ power sword & Rod of Office (Warlord); vanilla Canoness, 2 Imagifiers, Repentia Mistress, Preacher

3 Battle Sister Squads in Rhinos, each with:
- Superior w/ storm bolter (Legends, yeah, I know)
- Heavy Flamer sister
- Meltagun sister
- Simulacrum sister & Cherub
- 5 boltgun sisters
9 bodies, so each Rhino can take a Canoness or an Imagifer

1 Repentia Squad in Rhino:
- 7 Repentia
- remaining 3 seats go to Mistress, Preacher, & Imagifier

3 Exorcists


The idea is the Exorcists sit back (hopefully in cover) to provide long-range anti-tank/monster/daemon fire while the four Rhinos rush forward, one hurtling the reinforced Repentia at something the enemy really cares about while the three BSS squads go for objectives, hopefully in cover and close enough together they can provide mutual supporting fires.

I'm strongly tempted to go with Ebon Chalice for the Miracle Dice shenanigans and the boost to the range of all those Heavy Flamers. (Still getting used to being able to fire those after moving in this edition -- obviously they don't care about -1 to hit).


Interesting list, doesn't look completely suicidal. And it makes me glad someone is experimenting with mech sisters!

Top of my head:
I think you can put the exorcists, one imagifier and one canoness into a separate Valorous Heart spearhead detachment.
I'm not a fan of the heavy flamer. If you swap those for storm bolters you save 36 points, so with the 14 you have spare you can get a minimum size non-mechanised unit of sisters to hold backfield objectives. Or maybe a third canoness?
The Repentia Superior is nice, but not neccessary. The Repentia are quite deadly even without her. If you don't take her and reduce the nr of regular sisters in your units by one, you can have a fourth rhino for the minimum unit you could afford for swapping out your heavy flamers.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/12 09:31:54


Post by: tneva82


He has 2 HQ's so he would need to turn the battalion into 1CP one. 5 CP total for army would be to weak. Assuming no house rules we should be aware of


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/12 09:40:47


Post by: Mellon


tneva82 wrote:
He has 2 HQ's so he would need to turn the battalion into 1CP one. 5 CP total for army would be to weak. Assuming no house rules we should be aware of


Ah, I misstook the Preacher for a Missionary. Oh well, it only costs 8p to change that. Should be doable.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/12 16:36:24


Post by: Jancoran


 davidgr33n wrote:
If you could charge after advancing I’d give Argent Shroud a try. But being as foot Sisters want to be in cover as much as possible, I think the ability is going to be of limited use.


Cover is cool and all. I'm not sure why that is a super big focus. At end of day you just aren't always going to be able to rely on it. But argent shroud can keep up with rhinos and the like so mobile cover is a thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mellon wrote:
 SisterSydney wrote:
I took folks' advice -- well, up to a point -- and played around with Battlescribe to create a 1,500-point, single-battalion mech Sisters list (1,486pts, so I can add an upgrade somewhere). I know it's suboptimal, but is it suicidal?

Spoiler:
Canoness w/ power sword & Rod of Office (Warlord); vanilla Canoness, 2 Imagifiers, Repentia Mistress, Preacher

3 Battle Sister Squads in Rhinos, each with:
- Superior w/ storm bolter (Legends, yeah, I know)
- Heavy Flamer sister
- Meltagun sister
- Simulacrum sister & Cherub
- 5 boltgun sisters
9 bodies, so each Rhino can take a Canoness or an Imagifer

1 Repentia Squad in Rhino:
- 7 Repentia
- remaining 3 seats go to Mistress, Preacher, & Imagifier

3 Exorcists


The idea is the Exorcists sit back (hopefully in cover) to provide long-range anti-tank/monster/daemon fire while the four Rhinos rush forward, one hurtling the reinforced Repentia at something the enemy really cares about while the three BSS squads go for objectives, hopefully in cover and close enough together they can provide mutual supporting fires.

I'm strongly tempted to go with Ebon Chalice for the Miracle Dice shenanigans and the boost to the range of all those Heavy Flamers. (Still getting used to being able to fire those after moving in this edition -- obviously they don't care about -1 to hit).


Interesting list, doesn't look completely suicidal. And it makes me glad someone is experimenting with mech sisters!

Top of my head:
I think you can put the exorcists, one imagifier and one canoness into a separate Valorous Heart spearhead detachment.
I'm not a fan of the heavy flamer. If you swap those for storm bolters you save 36 points, so with the 14 you have spare you can get a minimum size non-mechanised unit of sisters to hold backfield objectives. Or maybe a third canoness?
The Repentia Superior is nice, but not neccessary. The Repentia are quite deadly even without her. If you don't take her and reduce the nr of regular sisters in your units by one, you can have a fourth rhino for the minimum unit you could afford for swapping out your heavy flamers.


The superior is pretty critical to an army that is trying to punch hard with a charge. I think its important.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/12 17:06:16


Post by: SisterSydney


Mellon, Jancoran, TNeva, thanks for the comments; good advice about HQs, multiple detachments, and a backfield squad if I can shave points somewhere. I do confess it doesn't feel like Sisters to me if there aren't a lot of flamers, and though they're probably not as good for their points this edition, they are still a big boost to your Overwatch.

Bottom line: At at 1500 points, with 7 tanks (3 Exo, 4 Rhino) on the field at the start, disgorging 40 dismounted troops on Turn 2, does this present enough targets to keep (say) Iron Hands from just shooting me to pieces before I can bring my shorter-ranged firepower and Repentia to bear?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/12 19:06:51


Post by: Jancoran


 SisterSydney wrote:
Mellon, Jancoran, TNeva, thanks for the comments; good advice about HQs, multiple detachments, and a backfield squad if I can shave points somewhere. I do confess it doesn't feel like Sisters to me if there aren't a lot of flamers, and though they're probably not as good for their points this edition, they are still a big boost to your Overwatch.

Bottom line: At at 1500 points, with 7 tanks (3 Exo, 4 Rhino) on the field at the start, disgorging 40 dismounted troops on Turn 2, does this present enough targets to keep (say) Iron Hands from just shooting me to pieces before I can bring my shorter-ranged firepower and Repentia to bear?


Iron hands requires lots of meltas usually so that is one thing to consider. I mean you have a LOT of armor and at 1500 you're not facing the same kinds of lists. So thats a really strong amount of armor at that points point. But you just are going to need to focus the goals of your units a little. For example one unit with flamer and heavy flamer and a unit with two meltas. Dont mix their purpose. That will make it easier to point at any one target and be optimized against it.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 01:07:58


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone run sisters squads with combi melta and 2 meltas just running around being annoying? Seems quite a dangerous unit to be knocking about.


I ran a couple of games like that [lots of BSS with 2x special weapons in each]. It worked okay. I won. But I also won all but one of the games I've plays as Sisters under the new codex, so that's not saying a lot. It had a couple of advantages, notably having lots of CP's and it being pretty hard for the enemy to knock out all my hitting power since it's very distributed. In addition, it has excellent board presence and ability to attack across a broad front and contain the enemy in their deploy zone. I didn't like the fact it was pretty harmless turn 1, had a lot more units to give up secondaries and kill more with, and also didn't have a lot of tricks up it's sleeve: walk, shoot, charge, repeat.

I don't have a verdict on whether it's better than any of the other lists I've run.
My only real thoughts so far has been that I've been pretty much unhappy with all the lists I've prepared for Sisters under the new codex. Right now none of the lists that I put together really feel like they work the way I want to or as well as I want them to. Actually, a list with Immolators and Immolation Flamers was one of the ones I was most happy with, but like it was really choked on CP and the cost of the tanks added up quickly.

I want to try as Argent Shroud, but with the meta the way it is I think I'd get decimated using not-Valorous Heart. Or at least Valorous Heart is so good since it protects against marines it's hard to pass up.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 01:16:35


Post by: Melissia


I plan on having meltaguns spread out among my BSS, myself. The idea is to prevent the enemy from taking your meltaguns out quickly, and having two or three ablative wounds does that admirably. But bear in mind also, I'm very much stuck on playing Bloody Rose, so my tactics are going to be different than a lot of peoples' for Sisters. I consider my BSS to be my anti-tank support for my Celestians, Seraphim/Zephyrim, and Canonesses.

And while this isn't related to tactics, I'm such a slow builder. These 8-13 part miniatures for infantry are killing me O.o

Ah well.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 01:49:16


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 Melissia wrote:
I plan on having meltaguns spread out among my BSS, myself. The idea is to prevent the enemy from taking your meltaguns out quickly, and having two or three ablative wounds does that admirably. But bear in mind also, I'm very much stuck on playing Bloody Rose, so my tactics are going to be different than a lot of peoples' for Sisters. I consider my BSS to be my anti-tank support for my Celestians, Seraphim/Zephyrim, and Canonesses.

And while this isn't related to tactics, I'm such a slow builder. These 8-13 part miniatures for infantry are killing me O.o

Ah well.


I've completed 2 whole models from the box set I bought around thanksgiving. [to be fair to myself, in that period I've also completed a bunch of Grey Knights stuff that was just first on the pile before the box set was added on top of it.]

Why are you stuck on playing BR though?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 02:12:27


Post by: MacPhail


Likewise, I've only built the Penitent, the Simulacrum, and started on the Canoness... and it would be faster if I wasn't tempted to chop up and reposition every model in the process. But that's what will get me my first set of Zepyhrim, which you all seem to be loving on the table. I realized what I may end up doing with the less essential bolters and flamers in these boxes once I've built all the specials I can use in 40k, which is to whip up a Kill Team in a completely divergent color scheme. Has anyone tried KT with Sororitas yet?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 06:37:16


Post by: BrianDavion


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
I plan on having meltaguns spread out among my BSS, myself. The idea is to prevent the enemy from taking your meltaguns out quickly, and having two or three ablative wounds does that admirably. But bear in mind also, I'm very much stuck on playing Bloody Rose, so my tactics are going to be different than a lot of peoples' for Sisters. I consider my BSS to be my anti-tank support for my Celestians, Seraphim/Zephyrim, and Canonesses.

And while this isn't related to tactics, I'm such a slow builder. These 8-13 part miniatures for infantry are killing me O.o

Ah well.


I've completed 2 whole models from the box set I bought around thanksgiving. [to be fair to myself, in that period I've also completed a bunch of Grey Knights stuff that was just first on the pile before the box set was added on top of it.]

Why are you stuck on playing BR though?


some people just have a favorite subfaction. it's simply how it goes.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 06:50:06


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


BrianDavion wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Spoiler:
 Melissia wrote:
I plan on having meltaguns spread out among my BSS, myself. The idea is to prevent the enemy from taking your meltaguns out quickly, and having two or three ablative wounds does that admirably. But bear in mind also, I'm very much stuck on playing Bloody Rose, so my tactics are going to be different than a lot of peoples' for Sisters. I consider my BSS to be my anti-tank support for my Celestians, Seraphim/Zephyrim, and Canonesses.

And while this isn't related to tactics, I'm such a slow builder. These 8-13 part miniatures for infantry are killing me O.o

Ah well.


I've completed 2 whole models from the box set I bought around thanksgiving. [to be fair to myself, in that period I've also completed a bunch of Grey Knights stuff that was just first on the pile before the box set was added on top of it.]

Why are you stuck on playing BR though?


some people just have a favorite subfaction. it's simply how it goes.


She said she's "very much stuck on playing BR". I assume that means there's more to it than just having an affinity for Bloody Rose.

Either way, BR is one of the more popular options. I really like it, and have run it a few times post codex.

The only one I like that I haven't run is Argent Shroud, [coincidentally, my Sisters are all painted silver, white, and red], but it's come to a point where the AP2 is so prolific and Marines are so oppressive that I just can't not be Valorous Heart.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 07:07:58


Post by: tneva82


Could be his moels are painted like bloody rose. So he's stuck unless he repaints them.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 10:58:47


Post by: Lemondish


 Jancoran wrote:
what people took and what people COULD HAVE TAKEN AND STILL WON is not proven here.


I think we'll need another place to discuss the rest of this - I'm willing to jump into another thread for the purpose, but I think ultimately we won't get anywhere if your position is that these data are irrelevant because it doesn't take into account what could have happened, but didn't. I enjoy your insight, not that's a pretty nonsensical position to hold.

Ultimately, my point is that some people need to recognize that the weakness of units in ITC does not preclude the discussion of their tactics in actual games of 40k, especially in this thread. The size of the disparity is pretty irrelevant there if the message is that any discussion of tactics at any level of the game is welcome here, whether you like it or not.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 11:41:15


Post by: Spoletta


BrianDavion wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
I plan on having meltaguns spread out among my BSS, myself. The idea is to prevent the enemy from taking your meltaguns out quickly, and having two or three ablative wounds does that admirably. But bear in mind also, I'm very much stuck on playing Bloody Rose, so my tactics are going to be different than a lot of peoples' for Sisters. I consider my BSS to be my anti-tank support for my Celestians, Seraphim/Zephyrim, and Canonesses.

And while this isn't related to tactics, I'm such a slow builder. These 8-13 part miniatures for infantry are killing me O.o

Ah well.


I've completed 2 whole models from the box set I bought around thanksgiving. [to be fair to myself, in that period I've also completed a bunch of Grey Knights stuff that was just first on the pile before the box set was added on top of it.]

Why are you stuck on playing BR though?


some people just have a favorite subfaction. it's simply how it goes.


Yeah, my lists too are mono bloody rose. I just like them and want to make good lists with them.

Also, i think i'm on the lead here. 10 sisters assembled and painted from the box! Also, canoness and seraphim assembled.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 11:49:32


Post by: tneva82


Spoletta wrote:
Also, i think i'm on the lead here. 10 sisters assembled and painted from the box! Also, canoness and seraphim assembled.


Try to catch up I have about 1850 pts painted(1950 or so once I get 2 imagifiers bought and painted plus paint the missionary).

I'm running out of sisters to paint thanks to GW.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 13:03:50


Post by: MacPhail


tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Also, i think i'm on the lead here. 10 sisters assembled and painted from the box! Also, canoness and seraphim assembled.


Try to catch up I have about 1850 pts painted(1950 or so once I get 2 imagifiers bought and painted plus paint the missionary).

I'm running out of sisters to paint thanks to GW.

To all of you making scandalous claims about having built and painted more than a couple of these gorgeous new modela, I started a Sisters Hobby Thread in P&M to show off your progress. I'm one green stuff sleeve away from assembling my converted Canoness.

As for tactics, here's my 1000-point casual pickup game list, and I've got a question on how to make it 1500 without thinking too hard about it. The shop plays both points values about 50/50...
Spoiler:
Valorous Heart Battalion
Canoness WL (Beacon)
Canoness with BoA and Inferno
3x5 BSS w/stormbolters
Imagifier w/ Stoic
1x5 Dominions w/stormbolters
Exorcist w/ HK

Bloody Rose Vanguard
Canoness Heroine (Indomitable) w/ Beneficence and Inferno
Imagifier w/ Warrior
Preacher
7x Celestians w/ 2x Melta, Combiflamer, Power Sword, Simulacrum
5x Seraphim w/ Infernos
Penitent Engine
Rhino
Pretty straightforward list with Valorous Heart as my anvil and Bloody Rose as my hammer... very pleased with how the Celestian Rhino bomb has been performing.

If my opponent calls for 1500, I'll add a second exorcist to the VH Battalion, drop Celestine into VH to send the melee Canoness over to BR, and add 3x5 BSS to bring the Bloody Rose up to Battalion size. With 80ish points left, I'll either keep the Penitent and add a second Preacher (so there's a foot crusade of BR Canoness, Preacher, and stock BSS running across the board) or drop the Penitent and Preacher to add a second squad of Seraphim with infernos.

What do I need more at 1500... a little more melta, or a little more melee?




Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 13:59:57


Post by: Spoletta


Can you reload twice the same guy if you have 2 cherubs?

I was thinking about running 2 retributor squads naked except for 1 MM and 2 cherubs.

On turn 1 i can blast with 6 MM shots, the same as one full squad with 4MM, but for less points and more resilience. I don't bank on a 4MM squad making it to turn 2, while i can see one or 2 MM still being avaialbe in later turns with this way.

The obvious disadvantage is that you get only half the shots affected by the stratagem.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 14:22:45


Post by: Mmmpi


Sitting on 48 assembled, with 25 mostly done, including one scratch built cannoness, and a scratch built hospitallar.

But I'm waiting on more paint to finish up.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 15:05:44


Post by: SisterSydney


 MacPhail wrote:
....
As for tactics, here's my 1000-point casual pickup game list, and I've got a question on how to make it 1500 without thinking too hard about it. The shop plays both points values about 50/50...
Spoiler:
Valorous Heart Battalion
Canoness WL (Beacon)
Canoness with BoA and Inferno
3x5 BSS w/stormbolters
Imagifier w/ Stoic
1x5 Dominions w/stormbolters
Exorcist w/ HK

Bloody Rose Vanguard
Canoness Heroine (Indomitable) w/ Beneficence and Inferno
Imagifier w/ Warrior
Preacher
7x Celestians w/ 2x Melta, Combiflamer, Power Sword, Simulacrum
5x Seraphim w/ Infernos
Penitent Engine
Rhino
Pretty straightforward list with Valorous Heart as my anvil and Bloody Rose as my hammer... very pleased with how the Celestian Rhino bomb has been performing.

If my opponent calls for 1500, I'll add a second exorcist to the VH Battalion, drop Celestine into VH to send the melee Canoness over to BR, and add 3x5 BSS to bring the Bloody Rose up to Battalion size. With 80ish points left, I'll either keep the Penitent and add a second Preacher (so there's a foot crusade of BR Canoness, Preacher, and stock BSS running across the board) or drop the Penitent and Preacher to add a second squad of Seraphim with infernos.

What do I need more at 1500... a little more melta, or a little more melee?




Cool list. Do you find that with only three vehicles -- the Exorcist, PEngine, and Rhino -- they get focus-fired by enemy anti-tank? Or has that not been a problem in practice?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 15:21:51


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Also, i think i'm on the lead here. 10 sisters assembled and painted from the box! Also, canoness and seraphim assembled.


Try to catch up I have about 1850 pts painted(1950 or so once I get 2 imagifiers bought and painted plus paint the missionary).

I'm running out of sisters to paint thanks to GW.


Is that all new stuff?

I shared my two whole new models in that painting threat. Fortunately, I have lots of metal sisters, so completing two whole models isn't really affecting my ability to run lists.

I do have to re-base everybody, though, which is going to take a while.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 SisterSydney wrote:
 MacPhail wrote:
....
As for tactics, here's my 1000-point casual pickup game list, and I've got a question on how to make it 1500 without thinking too hard about it. The shop plays both points values about 50/50...
Spoiler:
Valorous Heart Battalion
Canoness WL (Beacon)
Canoness with BoA and Inferno
3x5 BSS w/stormbolters
Imagifier w/ Stoic
1x5 Dominions w/stormbolters
Exorcist w/ HK

Bloody Rose Vanguard
Canoness Heroine (Indomitable) w/ Beneficence and Inferno
Imagifier w/ Warrior
Preacher
7x Celestians w/ 2x Melta, Combiflamer, Power Sword, Simulacrum
5x Seraphim w/ Infernos
Penitent Engine
Rhino
Pretty straightforward list with Valorous Heart as my anvil and Bloody Rose as my hammer... very pleased with how the Celestian Rhino bomb has been performing.

If my opponent calls for 1500, I'll add a second exorcist to the VH Battalion, drop Celestine into VH to send the melee Canoness over to BR, and add 3x5 BSS to bring the Bloody Rose up to Battalion size. With 80ish points left, I'll either keep the Penitent and add a second Preacher (so there's a foot crusade of BR Canoness, Preacher, and stock BSS running across the board) or drop the Penitent and Preacher to add a second squad of Seraphim with infernos.

What do I need more at 1500... a little more melta, or a little more melee?




Cool list. Do you find that with only three vehicles -- the Exorcist, PEngine, and Rhino -- they get focus-fired by enemy anti-tank? Or has that not been a problem in practice?


It's less of a problem at 1000 points; the enemy can't have as much AT.

Also, random thought, Battlescribe has them, but I think Preachers a Legends now. Probably should switch to Missionaries.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 15:23:25


Post by: Melissia


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
I plan on having meltaguns spread out among my BSS, myself. The idea is to prevent the enemy from taking your meltaguns out quickly, and having two or three ablative wounds does that admirably. But bear in mind also, I'm very much stuck on playing Bloody Rose, so my tactics are going to be different than a lot of peoples' for Sisters. I consider my BSS to be my anti-tank support for my Celestians, Seraphim/Zephyrim, and Canonesses.

And while this isn't related to tactics, I'm such a slow builder. These 8-13 part miniatures for infantry are killing me O.o

Ah well.


I've completed 2 whole models from the box set I bought around thanksgiving. [to be fair to myself, in that period I've also completed a bunch of Grey Knights stuff that was just first on the pile before the box set was added on top of it.]

Why are you stuck on playing BR though?
Because I love the versatility of assault being a viable option while still having good shooting. Also, Beneficence is damn amazing.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 15:33:08


Post by: Grundz


Spoletta wrote:
Can you reload twice the same guy if you have 2 cherubs?

I was thinking about running 2 retributor squads naked except for 1 MM and 2 cherubs.

On turn 1 i can blast with 6 MM shots, the same as one full squad with 4MM, but for less points and more resilience. I don't bank on a 4MM squad making it to turn 2, while i can see one or 2 MM still being avaialbe in later turns with this way.

The obvious disadvantage is that you get only half the shots affected by the stratagem.


Yes, there is nothing stopping you from doing this, in fact its probably a good idea if you are trying to fill out a brigade and don't feel like running 3x exos
I don't think 2x brigade is possible without a hilarious number of wasted points in cheap characters though


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 15:40:54


Post by: Gareth_Evans


One thing I could see as being viable is a blob of bloody Rose and the 4+ invuln from Cannoness and Celestine.

In a way they could be like Dark Eldar but cheaper! A blob of BR Celestines can pack quite a punch that people would not expect...as well as wielding 3 melta. It's an idea I'd like to play with once I get enough models. However my first foray will likely be VH brigade and BR vanguard with plenty of CP to learn the army and stratagems.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 15:47:12


Post by: tneva82


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Is that all new stuff?


Yep. Started sisters on november.


Also, random thought, Battlescribe has them, but I think Preachers a Legends now. Probably should switch to Missionaries.


No preacher is in codex. Very definition of non legends. Model also on sale. What is legends is some wargear preacher used to have


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 15:49:52


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


tneva82 wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Is that all new stuff?


Yep. Started sisters on november.


Also, random thought, Battlescribe has them, but I think Preachers a Legends now. Probably should switch to Missionaries.


No preacher is in codex. Very definition of non legends. Model also on sale. What is legends is some wargear preacher used to have


Cool. Must have flipped past him.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 15:58:01


Post by: deviantduck


 Melissia wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
I plan on having meltaguns spread out among my BSS, myself. The idea is to prevent the enemy from taking your meltaguns out quickly, and having two or three ablative wounds does that admirably. But bear in mind also, I'm very much stuck on playing Bloody Rose, so my tactics are going to be different than a lot of peoples' for Sisters. I consider my BSS to be my anti-tank support for my Celestians, Seraphim/Zephyrim, and Canonesses.

And while this isn't related to tactics, I'm such a slow builder. These 8-13 part miniatures for infantry are killing me O.o

Ah well.


I've completed 2 whole models from the box set I bought around thanksgiving. [to be fair to myself, in that period I've also completed a bunch of Grey Knights stuff that was just first on the pile before the box set was added on top of it.]

Why are you stuck on playing BR though?
Because I love the versatility of assault being a viable option while still having good shooting. Also, Beneficence is damn amazing.
But 'stuck' isn't quite the right word. Stuck implies you have no choice. You can play them as any other order anytime you want. Wouldn't it be better to say you're 'focused' on playing BR?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 17:29:09


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 deviantduck wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
I plan on having meltaguns spread out among my BSS, myself. The idea is to prevent the enemy from taking your meltaguns out quickly, and having two or three ablative wounds does that admirably. But bear in mind also, I'm very much stuck on playing Bloody Rose, so my tactics are going to be different than a lot of peoples' for Sisters. I consider my BSS to be my anti-tank support for my Celestians, Seraphim/Zephyrim, and Canonesses.

And while this isn't related to tactics, I'm such a slow builder. These 8-13 part miniatures for infantry are killing me O.o

Ah well.


I've completed 2 whole models from the box set I bought around thanksgiving. [to be fair to myself, in that period I've also completed a bunch of Grey Knights stuff that was just first on the pile before the box set was added on top of it.]

Why are you stuck on playing BR though?
Because I love the versatility of assault being a viable option while still having good shooting. Also, Beneficence is damn amazing.
But 'stuck' isn't quite the right word. Stuck implies you have no choice. You can play them as any other order anytime you want. Wouldn't it be better to say you're 'focused' on playing BR?


Either way, it's a choice of wording that gave impressions other than intended, but it now understood.

I think BR is one of the better Orders to chose from, if the SM meta wasn't so oppressive. I played them basically all beta codex and for a couple of games under the new codex. Definitely strong, and mass melee sisters has a lot of potential since melee is so strong this edition. There'a also some follow-down reprecussions as well, since you can take higher density of meltaguns if you expect your basic infantry to be able to clear out screens of GEQ in melee and stick to bringing more heavy guns for knocking out tanks and putting down marines.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 18:00:58


Post by: Melissia


 deviantduck wrote:
But 'stuck' isn't quite the right word.
Now now, we're not in YMDC, let's not focus too much on semantics.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 19:11:50


Post by: davidgr33n


Does anyone else run their Imagifier in this setup...?

Imagifier with Book of St Lucius Relic, Indomitable Belief Trait, and two Tales (stoic and warrior).

This gives every unit within 9” a +1 to Inv Saves/ +1 to strength and ignore AP-2 weapons (I use Val Heart).


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 19:14:52


Post by: Melissia


I mean, it's really useful. Just be aware of snipers, cause that imagifier would be a premium target.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 19:32:08


Post by: Grundz


 Gareth_Evans wrote:
One thing I could see as being viable is a blob of bloody Rose and the 4+ invuln from Cannoness and Celestine.


the problem is that cannoness and celestine are two bubbles that need to overlap, only have 6" range, and cost you $200 points
ignoring ap-2 costs you 30pts per bubble up to 3 and negates most anti infantry firepower, if they're shooting at sisters with plasma and melta they probably aren't killing them fast enough


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 19:41:58


Post by: davidgr33n


 Melissia wrote:
I mean, it's really useful. Just be aware of snipers, cause that imagifier would be a premium target.


I use a unit of Celestians as bodyguards.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 19:46:20


Post by: MacPhail


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
 MacPhail wrote:

What do I need more at 1500... a little more melta, or a little more melee?

Cool list. Do you find that with only three vehicles -- the Exorcist, PEngine, and Rhino -- they get focus-fired by enemy anti-tank? Or has that not been a problem in practice?

It's less of a problem at 1000 points; the enemy can't have as much AT.

This is a new list at a new point level. I'm hoping Lord Katherine is right. I think a solid opponent will shoot one of those things down Turn 1. A strong AT list might get the Exo, a smart player might dismount the Celestian bomb and make them walk, and I'm hoping that if anything, the Penitent draws the heat as a distraction carnifex of sorts. If I can get 2 rounds of Exo shooting and also deliver the melee element, I'll be in a good place.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/13 22:27:18


Post by: Melissia


 davidgr33n wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
I mean, it's really useful. Just be aware of snipers, cause that imagifier would be a premium target.


I use a unit of Celestians as bodyguards.
Fair enough. Should help them be a proper lynchpin.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 01:04:50


Post by: davidgr33n


 Melissia wrote:
 davidgr33n wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
I mean, it's really useful. Just be aware of snipers, cause that imagifier would be a premium target.


I use a unit of Celestians as bodyguards.
Fair enough. Should help them be a proper lynchpin.


I do sometimes wonder if keeping the Celestians is really worth it solely for bodyguard duty..? I mean, if someone wants to snipe at my characters they can go after the Celestian bodyguards with other shooting attacks and get rid of them before proceeding to snipe the characters. Competitive players will do that.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 02:25:28


Post by: ryzouken


 davidgr33n wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
 davidgr33n wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
I mean, it's really useful. Just be aware of snipers, cause that imagifier would be a premium target.


I use a unit of Celestians as bodyguards.
Fair enough. Should help them be a proper lynchpin.


I do sometimes wonder if keeping the Celestians is really worth it solely for bodyguard duty..? I mean, if someone wants to snipe at my characters they can go after the Celestian bodyguards with other shooting attacks and get rid of them before proceeding to snipe the characters. Competitive players will do that.

At which point they're playing directly into your plan of ignoring ap -2 with a 4++ or 5++ with 6+++. I imagine this is desirable. I'd almost recommend running a 10 lady unit (or two 5 lady for morale purposes) of celestians with no upgrades. Really force the issue.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 02:28:46


Post by: Jancoran


Lemondish wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
what people took and what people COULD HAVE TAKEN AND STILL WON is not proven here.


I think we'll need another place to discuss the rest of this - I'm willing to jump into another thread for the purpose, but I think ultimately we won't get anywhere if your position is that these data are irrelevant because it doesn't take into account what could have happened, but didn't. I enjoy your insight, not that's a pretty nonsensical position to hold.

Ultimately, my point is that some people need to recognize that the weakness of units in ITC does not preclude the discussion of their tactics in actual games of 40k, especially in this thread. The size of the disparity is pretty irrelevant there if the message is that any discussion of tactics at any level of the game is welcome here, whether you like it or not.


No one suggested it was irrelevant. It just isn't conclusive to the point being made. If the question was "did that combo kick ass" well...no one's arguing. But that isn't really what we were discussing.

ITC and normal 40K require the same things which I outlined and I wont repeat. Timing is what differs in say Eternal War Missions and a Progresive Scoring game. Of course. But timing is a tactical consideration. Units carry out their task at a different time perhaps? That isn't to say the task changed.

It isn't that I have this overwhelming love for ITC missions. I don't. Most people who know me know that I would prefer a bit less gamesmanship; while understanding that its to further distinguish the good from the very good. Fun factor does suffer a bit even though the demands on and recognition of skill increases.

But if the subject is whether someone should be dismissive of it? Yeah I don't think I'm getting behind THAT. Clearly, anyone worth their salt as General can quickly adjust to the ITC (and i do mean after a few games because yes, it is different and there will be adjustment time). I respect that it isnt the same and no one can say different.

But there is a difference between saying that it affects the unit selection and saying that a different unit selection wouldn't have achieved victory. I've sort of been at the forefront of that movement and gone out of my way to prove it. Used to blog all the time on it so people can feel free to go there for a historical record of those efforts.

Lets bring it on home though, down to Sisters of Battle levels. Most competitive games in both versions will want Exorcists. Range alone makes them a no-brainer, but they also just happen to be T8, and they can get a 6+ invul and 6+ FnP. Firepower: absolutely epic. At no point will that ever suck. Doesn't even matter what you're playing against and yeah, you'll give up all 4 on big game hunter if you take even one more tank because the enemy will definitely want those dead. You'll also probably GET Big Game Hunter. Ironic.

No other Heavy Support really rises to the level of great in either version of missions but the Multimelta Retributors cannot be dismissed as their Stratagem is really impressive. So lets call them useful and I think we could agree that this would be true in any version of 40K. Ranged tank/elite killing is never out of style. Nevah.

Looking at Troops, we discuss whether you'd take them mech'd up or not in the two mission types we are talking about. We know that we might give up Big Game Hunter but here's the pivot question: are you really going to give up all that mobility and protection (I am assuming here that you love armor asI dont) just to stop the guy from getting...1 point? You see, I think this is the crux of the whole matter because what we are talking about between the two mission varieties is how units are selected or not. This is the best example out there of that decision point. So what have we REALLY given up by having transports? 1 point, whether we take one or take seven Rhinos! And the enemy may never get that fourth point! Its just a POTENTIAL point. Unit size is also worth discussing between the two (Eternal vs ITC). I prefer larger units in ITC. Would I if it were not? Well MY answer is that I have used horde sisters since they could be 20 sister squads in 3rd-5th Edition and before the ITC and before the INAT (for those who recall that). In point of fact the only times I didn't use large squads were when the Index was out and mech sisters were actually really really good and I couldnt fit em. So I guess for me, the answer is I would have done it anyways. Even when I was using the transports I kept them at 10 sisters to protect myself from Kill Points (normal 40K) and from Killed More (ITC). Same exact consideration for both games and in fact you could argue that Kill points is a bigger deal in the Eternal War Kill Point missions. But in fairness because ITC simply has it in all missions, its fair to say that the ITC forces the comparison more. The answer is the same though: large squads are just really good. Now if you dont want to take larger squads as a matter of simple preference thats another matter but as for comparatives, larger is better in both worlds or as large as your decision to use mech or not allows.

Elites? Well we have only ever had one good elite to speak of ever, and even that was debatable. Sisters Repentia were really really good in the 6E codex because you could keep them alive and slaying very well with the 2+ save Canoness help etc... Before and after it, there was usually nothing there for elites worth talking about. Arco-Flagellents were great but even more rare than sisters armies, 3rd Edition through Beta Codex. So no difference in selection there. If you liked Repentias as I did, you had them and...yeah. No difference in popularity would be found there between the Eternal War or ITC missions. Same unit sizes were preferable (large) because of attrition. I'd almost swear that I never saw another person besides me use them ythough or any elite for most of all the editions. Dealthcult assassins were more likely than any of it. andeven then..

HQ's? Canoness and Celestine have been an obvious choice since the White Dwarf Codex. Still are in either mission. You can play without Celestine. She is a liability in the ITC scoring so she is the one worth mentioning here as a "take it or dont" between the two versions. If you take her in Eternal War missions I am willing to concede that she is definitely better in Eternal War. I say that THEORETICALLY, because... despite her being a liability in ITC, I still take her in the ITC and give up her 4 points pretty gladly every game. If I didn't take such an obvious points magnet, the enemy would have chosen something besides Kingslayer. The enemy is only taking Kingslayer BECAUSE its so guaranteed against me, am I right? Its super automatic. So why do I do that when I know that I'll lose them? Making matters worse, I dont even keep her near the rest of my stuff to buff them! So she's not even giving me that utility either. Even less "good" in ITC when played the way I do with her. So she is a great example unit for us here because you would argue that the ITC is basically "penalizing me" for taking her. But is she? If I dont take her he would choose another objective and possibly score the SAME 4 points. Now the question: how many points did I REALLY sacrifice to keep her in my list? mmm... possibly none. Possibly 1. We cant know. What we do know is that despite the POSSIBILITY of "losing for taking her", I choose to. I told you in my previous post that it is about what I score...not what you score. And if taking this total and acknowledged liability, I can win and then some, well then I'm perfectly fine with you getting some points. what you get is irrelevant if the unit gives me a kick ass ride. I foresee maybe a point worth of difference coming from taking her.

Fast attacks? ITC affects this one too I must acknowledge. "Killed more" is harder for an enemy who cant shoot you to death in turn one with absurd marine artillery and so on. So Seraphim and the Angels of sword-doom are intelligent choices to avoid it in the early going, and to avoid alpha striking armies who want your blood early (that is not an ITC consideration of course). I think that this is more relevant to the objective of killing more than any other type. Nothing really specifically targets Seraphim over other unit types per se but it also makes Marked for Death harder if they choose them, because the enemy could be whittled to the point of not getting all those points. So it forces tough choices on the ITC opponent. That is why Bajramoovic did so well...20th at the championships? YES! Here were asked all the same questions as before. Are people NOT going to use them in ITC or not going to use them in Eternal War? Well I definitely think the answer is an emphatic no. they are superb in both. They can take objectives late (eternal) they can be used to get the kills you need for Killed more to combat that and they are bouncing out of combats which both formats love (eternal war endgames and ITC progressive scoring).

Dominion are the same but because they are best used in rhinos. It really gets back to all the rhino talk we did. But since you are taking the Exorcists, you are really only risking the 1 point here again if you did take a rhino. Otherwie the unit doesnt change much in what it gives up in either version (relative to the same being true of the opponent).

So given our codex, I see so few things here to support that you would or wouldn't take something because of the format. Only Celestine is a compelling argument really, and I will concede that you need to seriously consider her presence in a list in the ITC. That being said, I'm 10-1in this new codex and I used her every game. I don't know that she's not carried the water for me in any of them. She's flat great at doing what I need. But yes, you could argue about her and I wouldnt think you crazy on any level. I just feel like you are talking about 2-3 points difference here that are AT RISK that wouldnt otherwise be. To me that just isnt enough to move the needle unless you're already in a slugfest and you've messed up already or you were never going to win already.

Those are my thoughts.









Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 04:33:32


Post by: tneva82


 davidgr33n wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
 davidgr33n wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
I mean, it's really useful. Just be aware of snipers, cause that imagifier would be a premium target.


I use a unit of Celestians as bodyguards.
Fair enough. Should help them be a proper lynchpin.


I do sometimes wonder if keeping the Celestians is really worth it solely for bodyguard duty..? I mean, if someone wants to snipe at my characters they can go after the Celestian bodyguards with other shooting attacks and get rid of them before proceeding to snipe the characters. Competitive players will do that.


Well for me celestians aren't there just for bodyguard. It's nice bonus if i run against eliminators(only sniper i'm really worried about apart from super lucky ones) but they are worth it even beside it


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 05:35:06


Post by: Jancoran


tneva82 wrote:
 davidgr33n wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
 davidgr33n wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
I mean, it's really useful. Just be aware of snipers, cause that imagifier would be a premium target.


I use a unit of Celestians as bodyguards.
Fair enough. Should help them be a proper lynchpin.


I do sometimes wonder if keeping the Celestians is really worth it solely for bodyguard duty..? I mean, if someone wants to snipe at my characters they can go after the Celestian bodyguards with other shooting attacks and get rid of them before proceeding to snipe the characters. Competitive players will do that.


Well for me celestians aren't there just for bodyguard. It's nice bonus if i run against eliminators(only sniper i'm really worried about apart from super lucky ones) but they are worth it even beside it


Celestians are pretty good now. 1 point is all you pay for a lot of benefit


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 10:32:44


Post by: Rogerio134134


Yeah celestians seem a solid choice for me, think I'll run a squad of 5 with a heavy bolter to just sit near characters and plink some reliable shots off at distance.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 12:49:31


Post by: MacPhail


Rogerio134134 wrote:
Yeah celestians seem a solid choice for me, think I'll run a squad of 5 with a heavy bolter to just sit near characters and plink some reliable shots off at distance.
I'm getting sweeter and sweeter on Celestians the more I use them... thinking about adding 5 to my backfield Battalion in addition to big one I send up with the forward aura bubble. Usually it's the forward element that draws the sniper fire, and I've never faced such saturated sniper fire that I have to adjust my play... but like tneva82 says, Eliminators are all over the place.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 16:50:50


Post by: generalchaos34


 MacPhail wrote:
Rogerio134134 wrote:
Yeah celestians seem a solid choice for me, think I'll run a squad of 5 with a heavy bolter to just sit near characters and plink some reliable shots off at distance.
I'm getting sweeter and sweeter on Celestians the more I use them... thinking about adding 5 to my backfield Battalion in addition to big one I send up with the forward aura bubble. Usually it's the forward element that draws the sniper fire, and I've never faced such saturated sniper fire that I have to adjust my play... but like tneva82 says, Eliminators are all over the place.


Would you just add 5 naked ones or do 4 stormbolters since its only 8 points?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 16:58:05


Post by: Jancoran


 MacPhail wrote:
Rogerio134134 wrote:
Yeah celestians seem a solid choice for me, think I'll run a squad of 5 with a heavy bolter to just sit near characters and plink some reliable shots off at distance.
I'm getting sweeter and sweeter on Celestians the more I use them... thinking about adding 5 to my backfield Battalion in addition to big one I send up with the forward aura bubble. Usually it's the forward element that draws the sniper fire, and I've never faced such saturated sniper fire that I have to adjust my play... but like tneva82 says, Eliminators are all over the place.


They are just super cheap for what you get. The only reason I didn't take them was because my list is balance on the head of a needle. I would be over exposing some of my raw firepower in order to do it, because if have to chunk off 5 or six sisters from a melta squad to form the new unit.

Still, they are so so tempting and if I didnt have three Canones's Id want to protect them more than I do.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 19:29:41


Post by: Melissia


 davidgr33n wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
 davidgr33n wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
I mean, it's really useful. Just be aware of snipers, cause that imagifier would be a premium target.


I use a unit of Celestians as bodyguards.
Fair enough. Should help them be a proper lynchpin.


I do sometimes wonder if keeping the Celestians is really worth it solely for bodyguard duty..? I mean, if someone wants to snipe at my characters they can go after the Celestian bodyguards with other shooting attacks and get rid of them before proceeding to snipe the characters. Competitive players will do that.
Well no, probably not. Celestians are really good just as a unit in general, though, so consider using them for their power overall. They've got a lot of hard-hitting power, particularly if they're near a canoness.

"Reroll all misses" is very strong, particularly with storm bolters or meltaguns.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 19:36:11


Post by: tneva82


 generalchaos34 wrote:
 MacPhail wrote:
Rogerio134134 wrote:
Yeah celestians seem a solid choice for me, think I'll run a squad of 5 with a heavy bolter to just sit near characters and plink some reliable shots off at distance.
I'm getting sweeter and sweeter on Celestians the more I use them... thinking about adding 5 to my backfield Battalion in addition to big one I send up with the forward aura bubble. Usually it's the forward element that draws the sniper fire, and I've never faced such saturated sniper fire that I have to adjust my play... but like tneva82 says, Eliminators are all over the place.


Would you just add 5 naked ones or do 4 stormbolters since its only 8 points?


I would take 4 storm bolters in a heartbeat. Only problem is that's the realm of dominions. Celestians are limited to 2 special weapons. Superior can take 3rd storm bolter if your meta allows legends to be used but that's not for everybody(and if I would have to guess most tournaments and with that huge chunk of non tournaments don't allow. Would be interesting to have some reliable data on that though)


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 19:37:09


Post by: Melissia


I'd suggest two storm bolters and a power maul on the superior. That reroll that celestians get near a canoness is for all attacks, so that's a lot of rerolled S5 attacks if you get assaulted / need to assault. Bonus points if you're Bloody Rose.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 19:38:27


Post by: tneva82


 Melissia wrote:
I'd suggest two storm bolters and a power maul on the superior.


Certainl viable option and I will likely build one. Not sure how good mine is but I went with trio of melta's and power maul. Expensive as hell but wanted one squad that hits like a brick. Albeit problem is they are sort of a bullseye target...

4 special weapons would be bad for balance though. Dominions would pretty much die except maybe brigade filler. Why pay 10 pts for dominion when you can have 10 pts for celestian who gets just as many special weapons?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 19:39:28


Post by: Melissia


tneva82 wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
I'd suggest two storm bolters and a power maul on the superior.


Certainl viable option and I will likely build one. Not sure how good mine is but I went with trio of melta's and power maul. Expensive as hell but wanted one squad that hits like a brick. Albeit problem is they are sort of a bullseye target...
That's part of why I'm actually thinking of avoiding combiweapons for Sisters. Just spread normal special weapons over more squads, instead of trying to concentrate firepower.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 21:04:23


Post by: tneva82


I would actually rather drop rgular special weapon than combi weapon(if said special weapon is flamer or melta gun).

Why? Well if you have combi weapon the last model you will remove from squad will have special weapon. If you have superior and separate special weapon you will eventually have to decide do you kill off the superior with superior LD(which could hurt you in morale phase) or special weapon.

Aka rather than 3 bolter girls, special weapon and superior I would have 4 bolter girls and superior with combi weapon.

Or have storm bolters. Either way flamer/meltagun I would rather have on superior to keep it alive until the last.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 21:14:14


Post by: davidgr33n


For those interested, new beta Mission rules for 2020 ITC are up...

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1ltQMdeDqYRXOhvdYT3dtUSji3AISvZRM8gDlhOXDaF8/mobilebasic


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 21:39:29


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine




Huh.

Interesting. None of the secondaries still really affect Space Marine lists, while Imperial Guard or something will still give up 8 points almost automatically off of Reaper and Big Game Hunter.

Born for Greatness and The Postman are kind of awkward, and I don't really see them being picked up, especially over options like Reaper and Big Game. Born for Greatness kind of requires the enemy to go along with it to max it out. The postman will only really be complete-able if you're already winning the game, and while objectives like Reaper and Big Game and Recon will naturally complete from being on a course towards victory if they can be, the postman require you to do something else on top of it.

Sappers is strange, and I want to like it, since the idea of disabling an enemy objective could be worth a fair amount of value, but I also can't see it getting to a full 4 points very easily and it could easily just be harming you more than your enemy. Also, like engineers is pretty easy to accomplish with a few cheap BSS squads out of LoS and in cover.

I do like the change preventing the same unit from counting towards multiple kill secondaries, and I like that reaper now counts multiwound models, but none still really hit Space Marines will kill objectives and the missions in general kind of inherently disadvantage horde-ish armies, which was kind of the complaint from before.


I'm also not really a big fan of all the new CA eternal missions, though.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 22:02:07


Post by: Asmodai


Celestine is decent for getting Born for Greatness - though we'll probably have better options in most match-ups.

The new Recon and Behind Enemy Lines scoring multiple points for have multiple units at the end of player turn should be a good way to quickly rack up some secondary points when we drop in the Seraphim or Zephyrim.



Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 22:05:19


Post by: deviantduck


 Asmodai wrote:
Celestine is decent for getting Born for Greatness - though we'll probably have better options in most match-ups.

The new Recon and Behind Enemy Lines scoring multiple points for have multiple units at the end of player turn should be a good way to quickly rack up some secondary points when we drop in the Seraphim or Zephyrim.

Behind enemy lines will be easy with some seraphim and zephyrs.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/14 22:08:04


Post by: Jancoran


 Asmodai wrote:
Celestine is decent for getting Born for Greatness - though we'll probably have better options in most match-ups.

The new Recon and Behind Enemy Lines scoring multiple points for have multiple units at the end of player turn should be a good way to quickly rack up some secondary points when we drop in the Seraphim or Zephyrim.


Recon is going to be money for me. Hoo baby.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/15 01:17:41


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Yeah, I was already taking Recon is almost every game, I definitely don't see that changing.

OTOH, my enemies might try harder to contest it.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/15 01:52:07


Post by: davidgr33n


 Asmodai wrote:
Celestine is decent for getting Born for Greatness - though we'll probably have better options in most match-ups.

The new Recon and Behind Enemy Lines scoring multiple points for have multiple units at the end of player turn should be a good way to quickly rack up some secondary points when we drop in the Seraphim or Zephyrim.



Unfortunately “Behind Enemy Lines” can’t be score by units with Fly keyword.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/15 02:20:32


Post by: Asmodai


 davidgr33n wrote:
 Asmodai wrote:
Celestine is decent for getting Born for Greatness - though we'll probably have better options in most match-ups.

The new Recon and Behind Enemy Lines scoring multiple points for have multiple units at the end of player turn should be a good way to quickly rack up some secondary points when we drop in the Seraphim or Zephyrim.



Unfortunately “Behind Enemy Lines” can’t be score by units with Fly keyword.


That's incorrect: "If at least one of your units that does not have the Flyer battlefield role is entirely in the enemy Deployment Zone at the end of your turn, earn 1 Point"

Seraphim fly, but they don't have the Flyer battlefield role (like Crimson Hunters or Heldrakes for instance).


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/15 04:41:41


Post by: Spoletta


I see nothing really fixed here, just a few things shifted around. I will keep using my CA.

I do like the new deployment rules though, i wish that the CA missions had that reroll.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/15 06:40:52


Post by: Jancoran


Marines will be much easier to get Reaper, and Marked For Death from. That's cool.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/15 15:26:27


Post by: Rogerio134134


Little idea I've had... Can you use 2 stratagems on one unit?? So could take a retributor squad with 3 MM and one HF the sister superior with a boltgun. Play Holy trinity and storm of retribution on the unit giving you +1 to wound for everything plus choose the melta option for storm of retribution giving you range 36 multi meltas with plus 1 to the damage roll?? 3 CP bit would be pretty deadly if possible.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/15 15:42:45


Post by: alextroy


Yes you can, but this combination has little use. The target unit needs to be in range of the flamer for Holy Trinity, which means you are probably in half range for the Multi-Meltas without using Storm of Retribution. 2 CP for +1 Damage when you are already rolling 2d6-drop lowest is not a good bargain.

Also, you can use Holy Trinity via a Combi-Flamer along with 4 Multi-Meltas for more Melta-goodness.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/15 16:19:17


Post by: Rogerio134134


True I somehow thought heavy flamers were range 12 to start off with because I'm so used to my lovely invictor warsuit


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/15 16:43:05


Post by: tneva82


More feasible use for this would be with heavy flamer retributors or maybe dominion squad with holy trinity(though that's not something to plan for) and blessed bolts.

Alextroy: Also multi melta is not 2d6 drop lowest with sisters. It's 2d6 discard one. Very useful when you come against necrons. If it was 2d6 discard lowest it would make melta swingier and make stratagems(quantum shielding, command reroll for save rerolls) more efficient(without stratagems average damage stays same though. Just more swingy with big damage or no damage).

With 2d6 discard one it's flat out bonus. Roll 3 and 6? Go for 3. 3 and 4 are the optimal to have.

(you could also use it on the odd case where you want to damage but not kill the target. Not often but sometimes might come handy)


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/15 21:28:18


Post by: Melissia


tneva82 wrote:
More feasible use for this would be with heavy flamer retributors or maybe dominion squad with holy trinity(though that's not something to plan for) and blessed bolts.
Yikes. Dominion with holy trinity is... I'd describe it as either being expensive or bad.

Better off having something like battle sister squad with two meltaguns and a combiflamer, if you're gonna try to make use of the Holy Trinity thing like that. The two meltaguns will be useful pretty much in any situation other than long range, the combiflamer will help deal with charges, and then if you get lucky you can also holy trinity.

If you're gonna use Dominions, you should specialize them for maximum effectiveness, as they're not as good as they used to be.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 00:32:21


Post by: davidgr33n


Never saw this explicitly but can an Act of Faith hit roll be used in overwatch? For example to shoot a meltagun?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 00:36:11


Post by: Mellon


Imnsho, Holy Trinity is a trap. Even in best cases it adds just one or two effective wounds and requires you to pay points for quite ineffective mixed squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 davidgr33n wrote:
Never saw this explicitly but can an Act of Faith hit roll be used in overwatch? For example to shoot a meltagun?


Yes. AoF can be used for hit rolls. That includes overwatch.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 01:55:28


Post by: Inquisitor Jex


My FLGS is starting an escalation leaugue with enw armies, so 'might as well start Sisters, since Marines are everywhere and I already got Guard.

I'm thinking of doing squads of 10 sisters, with the Cherub, Simulacrum (since it gives more miracles usage, and it seems to be a cornerstone mechanic for the SoB, like Orders for guard) and a condemnor boltgun/chainsword for the Superior (Since it's D3 damage on psykers for a single point, c'mon...)

'thing is, what to take as Special/Heavy weapons...*should* I take one or both or neither?

I've read from pg 46 to 53 saw a few posts and lists, and meltagun is popular, but I lack vehicules to really use them properly; storm bolters seems also popular, being cheap and giving you an extra shot for peanut pricing. Heavy weapons falls of favour, I never saw any, short of a single heavy bolter with a Storm bolter in the squad.

I am just wondering if I should add a couple of Storm bolters to my 2 squads, go with Heavy Bolters or just got 10 bolters with the Chebus and Simulacrum and leave the special weapons to Dominions/Celestians (flamers for them due to good melee) and Retributors ?



Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 01:57:37


Post by: JNAProductions


How many multi-wound Psykers aren’t characters? Even for one point, what’s the point?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 03:13:12


Post by: Lemondish


Inquisitor Jex wrote:
My FLGS is starting an escalation leaugue with enw armies, so 'might as well start Sisters, since Marines are everywhere and I already got Guard.

I'm thinking of doing squads of 10 sisters, with the Cherub, Simulacrum (since it gives more miracles usage, and it seems to be a cornerstone mechanic for the SoB, like Orders for guard) and a condemnor boltgun/chainsword for the Superior (Since it's D3 damage on psykers for a single point, c'mon...)

'thing is, what to take as Special/Heavy weapons...*should* I take one or both or neither?

I've read from pg 46 to 53 saw a few posts and lists, and meltagun is popular, but I lack vehicules to really use them properly; storm bolters seems also popular, being cheap and giving you an extra shot for peanut pricing. Heavy weapons falls of favour, I never saw any, short of a single heavy bolter with a Storm bolter in the squad.

I am just wondering if I should add a couple of Storm bolters to my 2 squads, go with Heavy Bolters or just got 10 bolters with the Chebus and Simulacrum and leave the special weapons to Dominions/Celestians (flamers for them due to good melee) and Retributors ?



You'll often want something dangerous to use that cherub and Simulacrum combo on, so I usually suggest meltas.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 04:12:38


Post by: MacPhail


My Bloody Rose Canoness with Beneficence just bagged four Chaos Terminators in a single phase. She had the wounds for all five, but her Celestian pals got one first. She's incredible. That was with the Passion, which gave her extra hits every time she swung, but still... I may never not run BR just to have her every game. I suspect I'm preaching, apropos, to the choir...


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 04:14:06


Post by: Spoletta


Mellon wrote:
Imnsho, Holy Trinity is a trap. Even in best cases it adds just one or two effective wounds and requires you to pay points for quite ineffective mixed squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 davidgr33n wrote:
Never saw this explicitly but can an Act of Faith hit roll be used in overwatch? For example to shoot a meltagun?


Yes. AoF can be used for hit rolls. That includes overwatch.


It's a handy tool on the BSS squads with single melta, since you can trigger this just with an hand flamer for 1 point. Granted, it only works at 6", so it is an additional tool to have, not something that you base lists or strategies around. Giving +1 to wound to a bloody rose hand flamer though can be nice and you are going to have those around, because no self respecting sister army doesn't carry at least some flamers to burn the heretics.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 06:42:57


Post by: Lammia


Inquisitor Jex wrote:
My FLGS is starting an escalation leaugue with enw armies, so 'might as well start Sisters, since Marines are everywhere and I already got Guard.

I'm thinking of doing squads of 10 sisters, with the Cherub, Simulacrum (since it gives more miracles usage, and it seems to be a cornerstone mechanic for the SoB, like Orders for guard) and a condemnor boltgun/chainsword for the Superior (Since it's D3 damage on psykers for a single point, c'mon...)

'thing is, what to take as Special/Heavy weapons...*should* I take one or both or neither?

I've read from pg 46 to 53 saw a few posts and lists, and meltagun is popular, but I lack vehicules to really use them properly; storm bolters seems also popular, being cheap and giving you an extra shot for peanut pricing. Heavy weapons falls of favour, I never saw any, short of a single heavy bolter with a Storm bolter in the squad.

I am just wondering if I should add a couple of Storm bolters to my 2 squads, go with Heavy Bolters or just got 10 bolters with the Chebus and Simulacrum and leave the special weapons to Dominions/Celestians (flamers for them due to good melee) and Retributors ?

You only get 1 Heavy weapon per BSS, so -due to movement and range- they're regarded as suboptimal on non-Retributor squads.

Stormbolters are optimal on Dominions, but 2 on BSS isn't insane. Combi-Melta on Superior is also reasonable. Flamers just aren't popular, their range just limits them too much.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 06:55:38


Post by: Rogerio134134


I'm of the school of thought that sisters squads should be small and cheap, sit on objectives and soak up fire. Storm Bolters on them is incredibly cheap and worth it I think. I'm running 6 X 5 strong units of BSS in my list 4 of them will be just with bolters and storm Bolters and 2 squads will be running melta guns just to mix it up and cause dramas to the enemy.

Anyone wanting to run an immolator? I'm tempted to run a single one with a multi melta on it just to draw fire away from the excorcists and to be a pain in the arse if it's ignored.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 07:57:40


Post by: Lammia


Rogerio134134 wrote:
I'm of the school of thought that sisters squads should be small and cheap, sit on objectives and soak up fire. Storm Bolters on them is incredibly cheap and worth it I think. I'm running 6 X 5 strong units of BSS in my list 4 of them will be just with bolters and storm Bolters and 2 squads will be running melta guns just to mix it up and cause dramas to the enemy.

Anyone wanting to run an immolator? I'm tempted to run a single one with a multi melta on it just to draw fire away from the excorcists and to be a pain in the arse if it's ignored.
Immolation Flamers are fun and annoying. There too expensive as is and Multi-Melta don't do enough to be a distraction, better off threatening to flamer everything before blowing up when they die.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 17:26:24


Post by: ryzouken


I've a sneaking suspicion that triple heavy bolter immolators could be of some utility in lower point games. They're the cheapest option, and homogenize the weaponry, making the hull bolter not feel like such a tax. They can also potentially keep your sisters alive for a hot minute, while reducing your drops. Seems feasible?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 18:53:21


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


ryzouken wrote:
I've a sneaking suspicion that triple heavy bolter immolators could be of some utility in lower point games. They're the cheapest option, and homogenize the weaponry, making the hull bolter not feel like such a tax. They can also potentially keep your sisters alive for a hot minute, while reducing your drops. Seems feasible?


I actually think that Immolators w/ the flamers aren't so bad if you're using them as a light tank. I've had some success doing so.

They're not good for transports because they're costly and only carry 6 people, which if you're trying to haul units up board just isn't enough. Rhinos or Repressors are def preferable for carrying stuff if the important part is the stuff being carried.

But as a light tank, the Immolator is comparable with a pair of pentient engines. For about the same cost, they're appreciably more mobile, much more resilient, and threatening on turn 1 in exchange for about half the offensive output. I've found the mobility pretty valuable, especially in the CA missions [which I'm starting to like less and less the more I play them], and the firepower adequate. I don't have enough penitent engines to really swarm them and get a feel for the comparison though, since I do own like 8 or 9 immolators but only 2 finished penitent engines.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 19:50:03


Post by: Melissia


 MacPhail wrote:
My Bloody Rose Canoness with Beneficence just bagged four Chaos Terminators in a single phase. She had the wounds for all five, but her Celestian pals got one first. She's incredible. That was with the Passion, which gave her extra hits every time she swung, but still... I may never not run BR just to have her every game. I suspect I'm preaching, apropos, to the choir...

Welcome to the Order.

With open bar. And lots of chainswords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rogerio134134 wrote:
I'm of the school of thought that sisters squads should be small and cheap, sit on objectives and soak up fire
I'm not sure I agree with them doing nothing but soaking up fire. Maybe for some Orders, but not for all of them. For my Bloody Rose Sisters, I want them to be up close threatening enemies and taking heat off of my canonesses, zephyrim (once they come out), and celestians. And for that, 2xMelta is perfect, with a maul or axe on the superior to make perfect use of the BR trait-- but even without the maul/axe, a chainsword is perfectly understandable given they're WS4+ (-1ap chainswords with four attacks on the charge, plus two for each sister in the squad? perfectly reasonable). Yes it seems expensive, but it means that your anti-tank is spread out over a lot of squads, letting you suffer losses easier while still threatening high value targets.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 20:38:40


Post by: davidgr33n


I agree.

The beauty of Bloody Rose is that even on basic Battle Sisters, they’ll get two melee attacks with a profile WS4 Str3 AP-1 D1. Or use their bolt pistols with one Str4 Ap-1 shot.

The core rules state that “In addition to their other weapons, all models are assumed to be equipped with a close combat weapon.”


Automatically Appended Next Post:



Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 20:43:20


Post by: Melissia


Oh damn, I didn't even consider their bolt pistols would get ap-1 in close combat. Great for combats after the charge if they get stuck in melee.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 21:27:29


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


On the matter of being small and doing nothing but absorbing incoming fire,

Sisters are really good for Engineers, because we're good at doing exactly that. A small, or even large-ish squad of Battle Sisters is impressively difficult to move when they're in cover and especially out of LOS, making them ideal candidates for Engineers sitting out of range on a backfield objectives, being cheap enough that them doing nothing isn't hurting the army, and tough enough that the enemy will have to devote antitank firepower to removing them.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 21:27:42


Post by: ERJAK


So the facebook team said SoB are getting new rules in one of the PA books. Speculation on what, in what book, and when?

My guess is end of march, a handful of new stratagems (which is actually kinda bad because of how CP starved we already are.) Relics (which we need even less) and a build your own sisters thing which probably won't be good.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 21:28:22


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


ERJAK wrote:
So the facebook team said SoB are getting new rules in one of the PA books. Speculation on what, in what book, and when?

My guess is end of march, a handful of new stratagems (which is actually kinda bad because of how CP starved we already are.) Relics (which we need even less) and a build your own sisters thing which probably won't be good.


Yeah, probably. Not expecting more.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/16 21:29:23


Post by: ERJAK


 Melissia wrote:
Oh damn, I didn't even consider their bolt pistols would get ap-1 in close combat. Great for combats after the charge if they get stuck in melee.


They will not.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/17 02:12:07


Post by: Oberron


ERJAK wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Oh damn, I didn't even consider their bolt pistols would get ap-1 in close combat. Great for combats after the charge if they get stuck in melee.


They will not.


Why not? Bloody rose seems to say otherwise?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/17 02:13:08


Post by: JNAProductions


Oberron wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Oh damn, I didn't even consider their bolt pistols would get ap-1 in close combat. Great for combats after the charge if they get stuck in melee.


They will not.


Why not? Bloody rose seems to say otherwise?
I believe what was meant is that they will not get stuck in. They will either kill their targets, get killed by their targets, or their targets will fall back.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/17 03:41:21


Post by: ERJAK


 JNAProductions wrote:
Oberron wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Oh damn, I didn't even consider their bolt pistols would get ap-1 in close combat. Great for combats after the charge if they get stuck in melee.


They will not.


Why not? Bloody rose seems to say otherwise?
I believe what was meant is that they will not get stuck in. They will either kill their targets, get killed by their targets, or their targets will fall back.


Dingdingding! Sisters don't stay in melee long...one way or another.

To expand on this, using pistols in melee means that either you WERE charged, which means your opponent both got to swing with his attacking unit at full strength, AND that your opponent was very confident what he was charging would die or be reduced down to an irrelevant number of models. Or you CHARGED which means you have 2 combat phases and your opponent's pistols to sit through before your pistols become relevant. Unless you charged a rhino, chances are one or other unit will die LONG before the pistols come up again.

The only units in SoB that both have pistols AND have a reasonable chance of surviving a combat phase against an enemy they won't otherwise kill themselves (remember, there aren't really slap fights anymore with Intercessors suddenly crapping out so many attacks on the charge that powerfist sergeants are coming back in vogue) are large squads of Valorous Heart battle sisters under tale of the Stoic.

Then you have things like genestealer cult troops and tau fire warrior who take enough damage from Bloody rose battle sisters(especially at S4 rerolling 1s to hit) that they'll just melt into goo themselves.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/17 04:58:05


Post by: davidgr33n


ERJAK wrote:
So the facebook team said SoB are getting new rules in one of the PA books. Speculation on what, in what book, and when?

My guess is end of march, a handful of new stratagems (which is actually kinda bad because of how CP starved we already are.) Relics (which we need even less) and a build your own sisters thing which probably won't be good.


It would be nice if we got a jump Canoness or some other type of fast moving support character.
Just wishing but I can.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/17 18:48:25


Post by: Rogerio134134


Just wondering how people are doing imagifiers?? I'm tempted to just use the fancy cage style simulacrum from the sisters box and use it as an imagifier to save 20 quid.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/17 19:25:53


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Rogerio134134 wrote:
Just wondering how people are doing imagifiers?? I'm tempted to just use the fancy cage style simulacrum from the sisters box and use it as an imagifier to save 20 quid.


Everybody with a stick is an imagifier. If I ever decide to put them in the squads, old stickbearers will be independent and the new stickbearers will be embedded in the squads.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/17 19:45:14


Post by: tneva82


Rogerio134134 wrote:
Just wondering how people are doing imagifiers?? I'm tempted to just use the fancy cage style simulacrum from the sisters box and use it as an imagifier to save 20 quid.


Saying "this simulcranum is actually imagifier". Until GW gets it's act together and releases them not much to do but that or some conversion but no doubt would look worse if I try that and likely parts and shipping would make price not that much cheaper anyway...


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/17 20:35:33


Post by: Jancoran


Rogerio134134 wrote:
Just wondering how people are doing imagifiers?? I'm tempted to just use the fancy cage style simulacrum from the sisters box and use it as an imagifier to save 20 quid.


I bought a whole bunch of them for my army some time ago, so i got all the Simulacrums i need. I paint the bottom of bases of characters with Silver paint so you can tell if two of them are close to one another.



Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/17 23:42:06


Post by: Taikishi


I haven't had a chance to expand this analysis to including Divine Guidance and the Bloody Rose conviction, but here's the "baseline" stats on a full seraphim squad using Holy Trinity with the following equipment setup:

1 Superior with Plasma Pistol and Bolt Pistol
7 Seraphim with Bolt Pistols
1 Seraphim with two Inferno Pistols
1 Seraphim with two Hand Flamers

Targets: MEQ (T4, 3+)

Assumed:
* Plasma Pistol is always firing at S7, both to avoid overcharging and because S8 doesn't benefit from HT against T4
* Targets are not in cover and have no saves beyond base, or ways to re-roll saves
* Firing unit has no way to re-roll hits and wounds
* Targets are 1W, so damage roll on Inferno Pistols is irrelevant

For deviations, I used ceiling for negative deviations and floor for positive just to deal with whole numbers of damage. That's why 68-95-97.9 isn't working out exactly in these numbers. For example:
Median of 3.5, St Dev of 1.1. 1 deviation would be 3-4 damage. 2 deviations would be 2-5 damage, etc.

Baseline data (no HT)
Bolt Pistols:
Spoiler:
-Median: 1.667 damage
-Mode: 1 damage (3257 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.224 damage
-1st deviation: 1-2 damage (60.14%)
-2nd deviation: 0-4 damage (97.91%)
-Odds of doing 5+ damage: 2.09%, or 1:48
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 16.98%, or about 1:6
-Maximum probable damage: 8 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000

Plasma Pistol:
Spoiler:

-Median: 0.375 damage
-Mode: 0 damage (6255 / 10,000)
-Deviations: Unimportant. All data within 1 deviation
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 62.55%

Inferno Pistols
* Note: these weapons are unaffected by Holy Trinity, Divine Guidance, and the Bloody Rose conviction with the previously mentioned assumptions. As a result, this data is consistent along all trials.
Spoiler:

-Median: 1.115 damage
-Mode: 1 damage (4950 / 10000)
-St Dev: 0.701 damage
-1st deviation: 1 damage (49.5%)
-2nd deviation: 0-2 damage (100%)
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 19.52%, or about 1:5

Hand Flamers
Spoiler:

-Median: 0.772 damage
-Mode: 0 damage (4581 / 10000)
-St Dev: 0.866 damage
-1st deviation: 0-1 damage (81.80%)
-2nd deviation: 0-2 damage (96.03%)
-Odds of doing 3+ damage: 3.97%, or about 1:25
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 45.81%, or about 1:2
-Maximum probable damage: 6 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000

Damage per volley
Spoiler:

-Median: 3.927 damage
-Mode: 4 damage (2311 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.719 damage
-1st deviation: 3-5 damage (62.27%)
-2nd deviation: 1-7 damage (96.30%)
-3rd deviation: 0-9 damage (99.77%)
-Odds of doing 10+ damage: 0.23%, or 1:435
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 0.95%, or 1:105
-Maximum probable damage: 11 -- 0.04%, or 1:2,500


With Holy Trinity
Spoiler:

Bolt Pistols
[spoiler]
-Median: 2.242 damage
-Mode: 2 damage (2819 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.384 damage
-1st deviation: 1-3 damage (73.62%)
-2nd deviation: 0-5 damage (98.32%)
-Odds of doing 6+ damage: 1.68%, or 1:60
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 8.65% or about 1:12
-Maximum probable damage: 9 -- 0.02%, or 1:5,000

Plasma Pistol
Spoiler:

-Median: 0.466 damage
-Mode: 0 damage (5341 / 10000)
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 53.41%


Inferno Pistols - no change

Hand Flamers
Spoiler:

-Median: 1.165 damage
-Mode: 1 damage (3646 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.073 damage
-1st deviation: 1-2 damage (57.85%)
-2nd deviation: 0-3 damage (97.09%)
-Odds of doing 4+ damage: 2.91%, or 1:34
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 31.00% or about 1:3
-Maximum probable damage: 8 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000

Damage per volley
Spoiler:

-Median: 4.987 damage
-Mode: 5 damage (2037 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.954 damage
-1st deviation: 3-6 damage (69.73%)
-2nd deviation: 1-8 damage (95.25%)
-3rd deviation: 0-10 damage (99.48%)
-Odds of doing 11+ damage: 0.52, or 1:192
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 0.39%, or 1:256
-Maximum probable damage: 14 - 0.02%, or 1:5,000



Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/18 02:43:49


Post by: SisterSydney


For those of you interested in homebrew units, I just posted a couple to fill gaps in the current Codex (snipers please!) and would love critiques from the Tactical Geniuses of this thread:

New Sisters Units & Stratagems: Infiltrators & Novices

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of units actually in the book.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/18 04:34:13


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Also, on what to use as an Imagifier, IIRC all simulacra bearers have the rank of Imagifier, independent of their status as being embedded in a infantry squad or part of the Canoness's retinue. So you really just can use any of the stickbearers for your independent-character Imagifier.

I think there are/will be 6 different possible sticks for them to carry at this time: skull-house, parchment, cage, statue-niche, the one from the box set with a skull-house flanked by two statue niches, and the unreleased one with the big statue with all the pointy [there might be more]. If you want more, the Immolator came with a bunch of different sized skull-houses, a flag, and art relief panels so if you didn't use all of them on every tank you can mount some of them on sticks so that none of your imagifiers will have the same stick.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/18 07:09:59


Post by: Jancoran


Ouch. Got beat up by some Blood Angels today. the alpha wasn't so bad, but i deployed poorly with a couple units and it allowed him to open an early lead. I kept creeping back but his units wouldnt die. He kept having one guy left in units. Le sigh. His characters wouldnt go down either. I hit him with plenty but the results just kept coming up inexplicably short.

Still after two games with Blood Angels I kinda feel like we're not at a huge disadvantage against them. I think you just need to give them a meaty hunk of meat to hit round one, and then blow them away.

My problem wasn't really the tools. I forgot to use Miracle dice a number of times in crucial situations which would have helped. At end of day both armies were in complete tatters but he had more tatters.

Biggest mistake i made was exposing the Arco-Flagellents. I was over thinking things and allowed them to be in his 30" bolter range. Totes forgot he had the 30" versions. Big oops. Had i not, i could have counter attacked pretty effectively.

Anyways, bemoaning the mistakes aside, the score and game made me feel a lot happier about the matchup than I was initially. I am kinda unlocking their code, but they are pooootent at what they do. that is fo sho.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/18 08:11:31


Post by: Mellon


Taikishi wrote:
I haven't had a chance to expand this analysis to including Divine Guidance and the Bloody Rose conviction, but here's the "baseline" stats on a full seraphim squad using Holy Trinity with the following equipment setup:

1 Superior with Plasma Pistol and Bolt Pistol
7 Seraphim with Bolt Pistols
1 Seraphim with two Inferno Pistols
1 Seraphim with two Hand Flamers

Targets: MEQ (T4, 3+)

Assumed:
* Plasma Pistol is always firing at S7, both to avoid overcharging and because S8 doesn't benefit from HT against T4
* Targets are not in cover and have no saves beyond base, or ways to re-roll saves
* Firing unit has no way to re-roll hits and wounds
* Targets are 1W, so damage roll on Inferno Pistols is irrelevant

For deviations, I used ceiling for negative deviations and floor for positive just to deal with whole numbers of damage. That's why 68-95-97.9 isn't working out exactly in these numbers. For example:
Median of 3.5, St Dev of 1.1. 1 deviation would be 3-4 damage. 2 deviations would be 2-5 damage, etc.

Baseline data (no HT)
Bolt Pistols:
Spoiler:
-Median: 1.667 damage
-Mode: 1 damage (3257 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.224 damage
-1st deviation: 1-2 damage (60.14%)
-2nd deviation: 0-4 damage (97.91%)
-Odds of doing 5+ damage: 2.09%, or 1:48
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 16.98%, or about 1:6
-Maximum probable damage: 8 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000

Plasma Pistol:
Spoiler:

-Median: 0.375 damage
-Mode: 0 damage (6255 / 10,000)
-Deviations: Unimportant. All data within 1 deviation
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 62.55%

Inferno Pistols
* Note: these weapons are unaffected by Holy Trinity, Divine Guidance, and the Bloody Rose conviction with the previously mentioned assumptions. As a result, this data is consistent along all trials.
Spoiler:

-Median: 1.115 damage
-Mode: 1 damage (4950 / 10000)
-St Dev: 0.701 damage
-1st deviation: 1 damage (49.5%)
-2nd deviation: 0-2 damage (100%)
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 19.52%, or about 1:5

Hand Flamers
Spoiler:

-Median: 0.772 damage
-Mode: 0 damage (4581 / 10000)
-St Dev: 0.866 damage
-1st deviation: 0-1 damage (81.80%)
-2nd deviation: 0-2 damage (96.03%)
-Odds of doing 3+ damage: 3.97%, or about 1:25
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 45.81%, or about 1:2
-Maximum probable damage: 6 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000

Damage per volley
Spoiler:

-Median: 3.927 damage
-Mode: 4 damage (2311 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.719 damage
-1st deviation: 3-5 damage (62.27%)
-2nd deviation: 1-7 damage (96.30%)
-3rd deviation: 0-9 damage (99.77%)
-Odds of doing 10+ damage: 0.23%, or 1:435
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 0.95%, or 1:105
-Maximum probable damage: 11 -- 0.04%, or 1:2,500


With Holy Trinity
Spoiler:

Bolt Pistols
[spoiler]
-Median: 2.242 damage
-Mode: 2 damage (2819 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.384 damage
-1st deviation: 1-3 damage (73.62%)
-2nd deviation: 0-5 damage (98.32%)
-Odds of doing 6+ damage: 1.68%, or 1:60
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 8.65% or about 1:12
-Maximum probable damage: 9 -- 0.02%, or 1:5,000

Plasma Pistol
Spoiler:

-Median: 0.466 damage
-Mode: 0 damage (5341 / 10000)
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 53.41%


Inferno Pistols - no change

Hand Flamers
Spoiler:

-Median: 1.165 damage
-Mode: 1 damage (3646 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.073 damage
-1st deviation: 1-2 damage (57.85%)
-2nd deviation: 0-3 damage (97.09%)
-Odds of doing 4+ damage: 2.91%, or 1:34
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 31.00% or about 1:3
-Maximum probable damage: 8 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000

Damage per volley
Spoiler:

-Median: 4.987 damage
-Mode: 5 damage (2037 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.954 damage
-1st deviation: 3-6 damage (69.73%)
-2nd deviation: 1-8 damage (95.25%)
-3rd deviation: 0-10 damage (99.48%)
-Odds of doing 11+ damage: 0.52, or 1:192
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 0.39%, or 1:256
-Maximum probable damage: 14 - 0.02%, or 1:5,000



Great math, thanks!
This reinforces my opinion that Holy Trinity is a bit meh and not quite worth army building for. I mean, a ~25% increase of median damage is a big percentage, but since it's only a single wound it's not that significant.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/18 13:17:30


Post by: Taikishi


The numbers will gravitate upward once I throw in the Bloody Rose conviction and Divine Guidance, but I think the median won't go up by much more than a wound, tops.

Best units for HT are likely a 15-model BSS in range of two flamers + combi-melta OR a 10-model Retributor squad in range heavy flamers + combi-melta + 2 armorium cherubs just because of total weight of fire. The real shame is you can't efficiently get a combi-plasma added in because you must have a flamer and a melta, and I really don't like the idea of a squad armed with 1 flamer, 1 meltagun, 1 combi-plasma for BSS OR 3 heavy flamers, 1 multi-melta, 1 combi-plasma for Retributors.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/18 14:22:42


Post by: Gareth_Evans


Don't forget Celestians. Though only 10 Strong, they get access to cheap full to hit re-rolls,pushing more hits through to be buffed.

Also if you really need to shoot at T8 targets, it allows the meltas to wound on 3+ instead of 4. A cheap way of accessing HT is to put an inferno pistol (1pt) on the Superior. Celestians can also re-roll wounds, giving you more value out of the +1 to wound.

Granted this stuff is expensive CP wise to do, but paying 1pt for an inferno pistol is worth it for the edge cases that it might be needed.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/18 15:49:22


Post by: ERJAK


 Gareth_Evans wrote:
Don't forget Celestians. Though only 10 Strong, they get access to cheap full to hit re-rolls,pushing more hits through to be buffed.

Also if you really need to shoot at T8 targets, it allows the meltas to wound on 3+ instead of 4. A cheap way of accessing HT is to put an inferno pistol (1pt) on the Superior. Celestians can also re-roll wounds, giving you more value out of the +1 to wound.

Granted this stuff is expensive CP wise to do, but paying 1pt for an inferno pistol is worth it for the edge cases that it might be needed.


You mean hand flamer. An inferno pistol is 7pts.

This introduces some serious logistical issues, however. Getting within 8" with an uninjured squad is already hard enough, getting all the way down to 6" pretty much relegates you to a counter-attack unit camping out of LoS; and we have a lot better options for that(repentia and zephyrim are both hilariously good at countering aggressive units...if you can dodge overwatch.)

If instead of that hand flamer, you got an inferno pistol, you could do a statistically similar amount of damage 3*.667*.5*3.5=3.5 vs (2*.667*.667*3.5)+(3.5*.5*.333)=3.66 for 6 extra points. 6 points is FAR less valuable than 1 CP. If you went with a combi-melta instead it'd be 13pts, but then you could double the range AND leave yourself the option to advance and shoot.

Basically, as every analysis of the strat has said since the beta codex, there really isn't a compelling reason to build for holy trinity except on specific edge case units like Ebon Chalice HF retributors or maxed out 15 girl BSS squads, and even then it's more 'nifty' than a serious game changing buff.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/18 19:32:57


Post by: deviantduck


tneva82 wrote:
More feasible use for this would be with heavy flamer retributors or maybe dominion squad with holy trinity(though that's not something to plan for) and blessed bolts.

Alextroy: Also multi melta is not 2d6 drop lowest with sisters. It's 2d6 discard one. Very useful when you come against necrons. If it was 2d6 discard lowest it would make melta swingier and make stratagems(quantum shielding, command reroll for save rerolls) more efficient(without stratagems average damage stays same though. Just more swingy with big damage or no damage).

With 2d6 discard one it's flat out bonus. Roll 3 and 6? Go for 3. 3 and 4 are the optimal to have.

(you could also use it on the odd case where you want to damage but not kill the target. Not often but sometimes might come handy)
Oh man, thanks for pointing this out. They changed it from the last dex.

Chapter Approved 2018
Meltagun 12" Assault 1 8 -4 D6 If the target is within half range of this weapon, roll two dice when inflicting damage with it and discard the lowest result.
Multi-melta 24" Heavy 1 8 -4 D6 If the target is within half range of this weapon, roll two dice when inflicting damage with it and discard the lowest result.

2019 Codex
Meltagun 12" Assault 1 8 -4 D6 When resolving an attack made with this weapon against a unit that is within half range, roll two D6 when inflicting damage with it and discard one of the results.
Multi-melta 24" Heavy 1 8 -4 D6 When resolving an attack made with this weapon against a unit that is within half range, roll two D6 when inflicting damage with it and discard one of the results.

Because Melta used to be really bad against necrons. I played against 2 necron opponents at LVO 2019 and it was annoying.



Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/18 23:04:17


Post by: tneva82


 deviantduck wrote:
Oh man, thanks for pointing this out. They changed it from the last dex.



Yep it changed with the marine codex. Found out that last fall when I went to tournament and faced the new marine codex where it popped up(I had necrons).

Tiny tweak and now there's 2 types of imperial melta guns. Marines and sisters have got for some bizarre reason superior melta's to...well everybody else including dark angels, blood angels etc.

Go figure. That's what you get without USR's!

Had tight game vs tau today. CA19 mission which saved my arse. On ITC I would have been totally screwed as tau unsurprisingly do gun lines and indirect fire better. He got to pick deployment zone so took long way down and deployed so far and with LOS blocking terrain as well I still had pretty much nothing in range or sight for most of my army in turn 2...There might not even have been 4 turns I killed even one unit...Turn 1 I whiffed completely unsurprisingly with just 2 exorcists to shoot. One vs riptide with drones and one had just 5 fire warriors to shoot at...

Managed to get some good objectives including area denial(unsurprisingly no tau came within 12" of center of board swarming with sisters ) which kept vp's close enough. Then got the card that gives vp's based on how many acts of faith you do. I blew up my entire store of miracle dices and cherub and did ANYTHING I could come up with(I literally burned 1 by missing with bolter...) and got 5 vp's from that which put me on lead.

Blew it on last turn when I got tunnel focused on securing the infernal secure 5 that was on his deployment zone. Celestine had already tried to get that by trying to kill cold star commander but failed and died and came back. Rather than finish off commander preventing him scoring line breaker and behind the enemy lines card(which I knew he had and we had even refered to that card...) denying 2 vp's I still tried to take out broadsides but the 3 drones kept them alive long enough for only 1 to die to retributors. Celestine failed to kill the one 6 wound one and died so didn't get that secure 5 in the end...Drat.

17-17 draw.

Lack of long range firepower was hurting. Not to mention total lack of indirect fire. He was keeping mostly out of sight and all drones behind LOS blocking making taking out those riptides impossible. Crisis suits I dealt with and those weren't that much of worry(cyclic ion blaster -1 AP meant my exorcists even outside imagifier range which I didn't bother because no any -2 fire coming their way) were fairly safe vs crisis anyway.

On ITC scenarios I would have been roasted with easy kill and kill more for opponent. I struggled to finish up even 1 unit per turn. Albeit some of that was ridiculous bad dice roll. 2 plasma pistol, 8 bolt pistol and 4 inferno pistol can't kill 5 tau firewarrior? Really?) but still. 24" ranges, no ability to ignore LOS blocking terrain hurts vs gunlines. Good thing we don't die easily.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 00:07:38


Post by: Taikishi


Here's the rest of the data analysis for the earlier mentioned HT Seraphim squad. Prepare for some spam...

Two minor corrections from my previous mathhammer post on the Holy Trinity section.
1st deviation for total damage is 4-6, not 3-6, due to inadvertently flooring the minimum. This leads to a 56.32% chance of 4-6 damage
2nd deviation for total damage is 2-8, not 1-8, also due to inadvertently flooring the minimum. This leads to a 93.45% chance of 2-8 damage.
I reconfirmed all of the other data points as accurate.

Divine guidance. From this point forward, Inferno Pistol sims are not included on their own because none of the abilities affect Inferno Pistols for T4, 3+ saves. Inferno Pistol damage is still included in total damage, however.

Bolt Pistols
Spoiler:

-Median: 1.943 damage
-Mode: 2 damage (2850 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.310 damage
-1st deviation: 1-3 damage (75.72%)
-2nd deviation: 0-4 damage (96.18%)
-Odds of doing 5+ damage: 3.81%, or about 1:26
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 12.53%, or about 1:8
-Maximum probable damage: 9 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000


Plasma Pistol
Spoiler:

-Median: 0.394 damage
-Mode: 0 damage (6064 / 10000)
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 60.64%


Hand Flamers
Spoiler:

-Median: 0.967 damage
-Mode: 0 damage (3768 / 10000)
-St Dev: 0.973 damage
-1st deviation: 0-1 damage (75.06%)
-2nd deviation: 0-2 damage (92.39%)
-Odds of doing 3+ damage: 7.61%, or about 1:13
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 37.68%, or 1:2.65
-Maximum probable damage: 6 -- 0.02%, or 1:5,000


Total damage
Spoiler:

-Median: 4.418 damage
-Mode: 4 damage (2138 / 10000)
-St. Dev: 1.830 damage
-1st deviation: 3-6 damage (75.53%)
-2nd deviation: 1-8 damage (97.37%)
-3rd deviation: 0-9 damage (99.3%)
-Odds of doing 10+ damage: 0.69%, or about 1:145
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 0.55%, or about 1:182
-Maximum probable damage: 12 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000



Divine Guidance + Holy Trinity
Bolt Pistols
Spoiler:

-Median: 2.520 damage
-Mode: 2 damage (2691 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.452 damage
-1st deviation: 2-3 damage (50.46%)
-2nd deviation: 0-5 damage (97.08%)
-Odds of doing 6+ damage: 2.92%, or about 1:34
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 6.19%, or about 1:16
-Maximum probable damage: 9 -- 0.03%, or about 1:3333


Plasma Pistol
Spoiler:

-Median: 0.483 damage
-Mode: 0 damage (5172 / 10000)
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 51.72%


Hand Flamers
Spoiler:

-Median: 1.368 damage
-Mode: 1 damage (3768 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.164 damage
-1st deviation: 1-2 damage (58.76%)
-2nd deviation: 0-3 damage (94.93%)
-Odds of doing 4+ damage: 5.07%, or about 1:20
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 37.68%, or 1:3.94
-Maximum probable damage: 8 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000


Total damage
Spoiler:

-Median: 5.485 damage
-Mode: 5 damage (1981 / 100000)
-St. Dev: 2.044 damage
-1st deviation: 4-7 damage (67.80%)
-2nd deviation: 2-9 damage (95.40%)
-3rd deviation: 0-11 damage (98.75%)
-Odds of doing 12+ damage: 1.25%, or 1:80
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 0.24%, or about 1:417
-Maximum probable damage: 14 -- 0.04%, or 1:2,500


Bloody Rose conviction
Bolt Pistols
Spoiler:

-Median: 2.517 damage
-Mode: 2 damage (2720 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.448 damage
-1st deviation: 2-3 damage (50.97%)
-2nd deviation: 0-5 damage (97.32%)
-Odds of doing 6+ damage: 2.68%, or about 1:37
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 6.58%, or about 1:15
-Maximum probable damage: 9 -- 0.03%, or about 1:3333


Plasma Pistol – from this point forward, Divine Guidance has no impact on Plasma Pistols in these simulations due to Bloody Rose making them AP-4
Spoiler:

-Median: 0.453 damage
-Mode: 0 damage (5475 / 10000)
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 54.75%


Hand Flamers
Spoiler:

-Median: 1.162 damage
-Mode: 1 damage (3740 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.063 damage
-1st deviation: 1-2 damage (58.07%)
-2nd deviation: 0-3 damage (97.00%)
-Odds of doing 4+ damage: 3.00%, or about 1:33
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 30.64%, or 1:3.3
-Maximum probable damage: 7 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000


Total damage
Spoiler:

-Median: 5.246 damage
-Mode: 5 damage (2002 / 10000)
-St. Dev: 1.969 damage
-1st deviation: 4-7 damage (68.32%)
-2nd deviation: 2-9 damage (96.19%)
-3rd deviation: 0-11 damage (99.85%)
-Odds of doing 12+ damage: 0.15%, or 1:667
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 0.21%, or about 1:476
-Maximum probable damage: 13 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000


Bloody Rose + Holy Trinity
Bolt Pistols
Spoiler:

-Median: 3.341 damage
-Mode: 3 damage (2448 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.606 damage
-1st deviation: 2-4 damage (65.28%)
-2nd deviation: 1-6 damage (94.68%)
-3rd deviation: 0-8 damage (99.78%)
-Odds of doing 9+ damage: 0.22%, or about 1:455
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 2.08%, or about 1:48
-Maximum probable damage: 10 -- 0.03%, or about 1:3333


Plasma Pistol
Spoiler:

-Median: 0.558 damage
-Mode: 1 damage (5584 / 10000)
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 44.16%


Hand Flamers
Spoiler:

-Median: 1.764 damage
-Mode: 1 damage (3077 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.315 damage
-1st deviation: 1-3 damage (72.97%)
-2nd deviation: 0-4 damage (89.61%)
-Odds of doing 5+ damage: 3.15%, or about 1:32
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 16.64%, or about 1:6
-Maximum probable damage: 9 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000


Total damage
Spoiler:

-Median: 6.778 damage
-Mode: 7 damage (1791 / 10000)
-St. Dev: 2.238 damage
-1st deviation: 5-9 damage (73.39%)
-2nd deviation: 3-11 damage (96.06%)
-3rd deviation: 1-13 damage (97.87%)
-Odds of doing 14+ damage: 0.34%, or about 1:294
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 0.05%, or 1:200
-Maximum probable damage: 17 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000


Bloody Rose + Divine Guidance. Plasma Pistol data excluded individually because Divine Guidance is irrelevant. Plasma Pistol data included in total damage
Bolt Pistols
Spoiler:

-Median: 2.796 damage
-Mode: 2 damage (2483 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.509 damage
-1st deviation: 2-4 damage (66.68%)
-2nd deviation: 0-5 damage (95.64%)
-Odds of doing 6+ damage: 4.36%, or about 1:23
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 4.47%, or about 1:22
-Maximum probable damage: 10 -- 0.03%, or about 1:3333

Hand Flamers
Spoiler:

-Median: 0.695 damage
-Mode: 1 damage (3546 / 10000)
-St Dev: 0.829 damage
-1st deviation: 0-1 damage (88.94%)
-2nd deviation: 0-2 damage (96.75%)
-Odds of doing 3+ damage: 3.25%, or about 1:31
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 49.53%, or about 1:2
-Maximum probable damage: 6 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000


Total damage
Spoiler:

-Median: 5.058 damage
-Mode: 5 damage (2044 / 10000)
-St. Dev: 1.928 damage
-1st deviation: 4-6 damage (56.54%)
-2nd deviation: 2-8 damage (93.50%)
-3rd deviation: 0-10 damage (99.50%)
-Odds of doing 11+ damage: 1.49%, or about 1:67
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 0.23%, or about 1:435
-Maximum probable damage: 13 -- 0.02%, or 1:5,000



Bloody Rose, Divine Guidance, and Holy Trinity
Bolt Pistols
Spoiler:

-Median: 3.619 damage
-Mode: 3 damage (2303 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.653 damage
-1st deviation: 2-5 damage (78.15%)
-2nd deviation: 1-6 damage (95.64%)
-3rd deviation: 0-8 damage (99.61%)
-Odds of doing 9+ damage: 0.39%, or about 1:256
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 1.51%, or about 1:66
-Maximum probable damage: 10 -- 0.06%, or about 1:1667

Hand Flamers
Spoiler:

-Median: 1.952 damage
-Mode: 1 damage (2829 / 10000)
-St Dev: 1.374 damage
-1st deviation: 1-3 damage (73.26%)
-2nd deviation: 0-4 damage (95.53%)
-Odds of doing 5+ damage: 4.47%, or about 1:22
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 13.57%, or about 1:7
-Maximum probable damage: 11 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000


Total damage
Spoiler:

-Median: 7.244 damage
-Mode: 7 damage (1728 / 10000)
-St. Dev: 2.306 damage
-1st deviation: 5-9 damage (73.02%)
-2nd deviation: 2-8 damage (95.10%)
-3rd deviation: 0-10 damage (99.77%)
-Odds of doing 15+ damage: 0.23%, or about 1:435
-Odds of doing 0 damage: 0.02%, or 1:5000
-Maximum probable damage: 18 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000




Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 05:46:22


Post by: tneva82


These are for t4 3+ w1 models? Howabout something like leman russ where inf pistol benefits(quite a lot) from holy trinity and multi damage useful and even flamer doubles damage.

Dunno. That would be target i would use ht for


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 08:01:47


Post by: sillyboy


Hey guys,

What is your opinion on using a 5 girl bss with two stormbolters and a combi-melta in conjunction with Argent Shroud and hand of the emperor.

The argent Shroud likes to move forward and use their mobility to control the midfield, often getting in the 12 inch deadzone where sisters shine. So lots of melta feels desirable.

But they are also meant to take the objectives which will often leave the melta useless. So i think that two stormbolters and a combi-melta could be the sweet spot for Argent Shroud. Keeping maximum firepower at range, but having the opportunity to take adantage of the movespeed and positioning of the enemy of possible.

What do you guys think?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 08:20:19


Post by: Mellon


 sillyboy wrote:
Hey guys,

What is your opinion on using a 5 girl bss with two stormbolters and a combi-melta in conjunction with Argent Shroud and hand of the emperor.

The argent Shroud likes to move forward and use their mobility to control the midfield, often getting in the 12 inch deadzone where sisters shine. So lots of melta feels desirable.

But they are also meant to take the objectives which will often leave the melta useless. So i think that two stormbolters and a combi-melta could be the sweet spot for Argent Shroud. Keeping maximum firepower at range, but having the opportunity to take adantage of the movespeed and positioning of the enemy of possible.

What do you guys think?


I'm going to try a combi-melta and two stormbolters on at least the units that I plan on pushing forward with. It feels comfortable to have a few more anti tank threats, and once in a blue moon I'll get to use a miracle dice to hit something big in overwatch.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 08:25:34


Post by: tneva82


I have couple such squads(though couple spare bodies).

Hasn't been that useful so far but when you face gunlines and you have over 30" between you to start with it's bit hard...Even with argent shroud and +1 from sacred rites you can't be sure you'll get to range in turn 2! Especially as front line will be soft so it could very well be 2nd line bit further back that gets to shoot.

Like the idea, just been up against about worst matchup for the melta guns Also all 3 games been facing targets storm bolters have been facing suboptimal targets. Wounding on 5's or 6's and 3+ or better saves with soft infantry out of sight...


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 12:13:57


Post by: Taikishi


tneva82 wrote:
These are for t4 3+ w1 models? Howabout something like leman russ where inf pistol benefits(quite a lot) from holy trinity and multi damage useful and even flamer doubles damage.

Dunno. That would be target i would use ht for


I ran the numbers for the same thing back in beta. It was awful then, it's awful now. Besides which, I do this the next thing I'm going to be told is "well, realistically, they should always be in melta range and near a re-roll source..." and at that point the work gets more cumbersome than I have the time or resources for since I'm doing this simulations in Microsoft Excel...

Edit: Actually. Tell you what. If someone wants to pay me my hourly rate to work on this, I'll do whatever people want for sims so long as it doesn't interfere with my job and they aren't asking me to doctor the data somehow. It might take a few days - it took me about 6 hours to do that set of simulation and it didn't include any re-rolls. But I also won't release the data until I'm paid.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 12:46:15


Post by: Lemondish


Taikishi wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
These are for t4 3+ w1 models? Howabout something like leman russ where inf pistol benefits(quite a lot) from holy trinity and multi damage useful and even flamer doubles damage.

Dunno. That would be target i would use ht for


I ran the numbers for the same thing back in beta. It was awful then, it's awful now. Besides which, I do this the next thing I'm going to be told is "well, realistically, they should always be in melta range and near a re-roll source..." and at that point the work gets more cumbersome than I have the time or resources for since I'm doing this simulations in Microsoft Excel...

Edit: Actually. Tell you what. If someone wants to pay me my hourly rate to work on this, I'll do whatever people want for sims so long as it doesn't interfere with my job and they aren't asking me to doctor the data somehow. It might take a few days - it took me about 6 hours to do that set of simulation and it didn't include any re-rolls. But I also won't release the data until I'm paid.


Nice work thus far, but I'm personally totally content with taking your word for it. You've shown you have a knack for analysis here and that's good enough for me.

Sadly, it's failure sucks because it was one of the few rules trying to encourage diverse weapon choices within a single unit. I am personally not a fan of the 40k wide tendency to select single purpose builds of some of these more customizable units. Seeing every Battle Sister in these lists basically just carrying two storm bolters feels totally lame. I see the same on the Deathwatch side, too - a unit that can equip a whole ton of weapons, but every single member is just carrying a storm bolter and a storm shield. Was truly hoping GW would have taken the time to make HT a differentiator and that this might lead to a reason to diversify within squads across the whole game.

Only thing I think we can do is continue to provide feedback. Is the FAQ email still the best place, or is there a more feedback specific email these days?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 14:11:53


Post by: tneva82


Taikishi wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
These are for t4 3+ w1 models? Howabout something like leman russ where inf pistol benefits(quite a lot) from holy trinity and multi damage useful and even flamer doubles damage.

Dunno. That would be target i would use ht for


I ran the numbers for the same thing back in beta. It was awful then, it's awful now. Besides which, I do this the next thing I'm going to be told is "well, realistically, they should always be in melta range and near a re-roll source..." and at that point the work gets more cumbersome than I have the time or resources for since I'm doing this simulations in Microsoft Excel...

Edit: Actually. Tell you what. If someone wants to pay me my hourly rate to work on this, I'll do whatever people want for sims so long as it doesn't interfere with my job and they aren't asking me to doctor the data somehow. It might take a few days - it took me about 6 hours to do that set of simulation and it didn't include any re-rolls. But I also won't release the data until I'm paid.


Oh it's your time of course so do or don't do. Though curious why you chose t4 w1 models which is about last thing you would want to use it. Melta gets no benefit from stratagem and loses damage plus others gets less benefit than t7-t8 targets.

Dunno. If you bother to spend any time why not do the most logical target?

But as i don't see that stratagem as anythrng but situational buff anyway not big deal. Board situation matters more than math


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 14:16:34


Post by: alextroy


The FAQ email is the only place I know of. The "problem" with Holy Trinity is that while most +1 To Wound stratagems just require you to use the right unit (or any unit if Heretic Astartes) HT requires a specific and sub-optimal weapons load out. It might be worth it if it was re-roll all Wound Rolls rather than +1 to Wound.

So, HT is an OK stratagem if you decide to arm a squad that way (go Narrative gaming) but not a way to build a squad for optimal effectiveness.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 14:34:03


Post by: tneva82


Hand flamer in squads is hardly going to be issue.2 melta, hand flamer, bolters. That's decent squad. Combi melta would make squad rather expensive.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 14:49:56


Post by: MacPhail


My thinking has shifted from squad level to detachment level, and I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts. With roughly the same units and same points, for an all comers list, would you choose...

Valorous Heart Battalion with Exos and screen plus Bloody Rose Battalion with Seraphim, Dominions, and Celestians...

Valorous Heart Spearhead with Bloody Rose Brigade...

Valorous Heart Brigade with Bloody Rose Outrider?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 14:52:39


Post by: tneva82


Not 2nd one at least. Basic squads don't benefit from br nor heavy supports. Br is best fit for vanquard while vh has very few units that don't benefit at all from bit.

So 3rd for me.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 15:02:48


Post by: Asmodai


 MacPhail wrote:
My thinking has shifted from squad level to detachment level, and I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts. With roughly the same units and same points, for an all comers list, would you choose...

Valorous Heart Battalion with Exos and screen plus Bloody Rose Battalion with Seraphim, Dominions, and Celestians...

Valorous Heart Spearhead with Bloody Rose Brigade...

Valorous Heart Brigade with Bloody Rose Outrider?


I run VH Brigade with a BR Vanguard, so pretty close to the third option.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 20:24:40


Post by: davidgr33n


 Asmodai wrote:
 MacPhail wrote:
My thinking has shifted from squad level to detachment level, and I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts. With roughly the same units and same points, for an all comers list, would you choose...

Valorous Heart Battalion with Exos and screen plus Bloody Rose Battalion with Seraphim, Dominions, and Celestians...

Valorous Heart Spearhead with Bloody Rose Brigade...

Valorous Heart Brigade with Bloody Rose Outrider?


I run VH Brigade with a BR Vanguard, so pretty close to the third option.


Ditto.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 21:34:53


Post by: konst80hummel


Valorous Heart Battalion with Bloody Rose Outrider I think it is the most efficient in low points.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 22:41:31


Post by: Taikishi


Lemondish wrote:
Taikishi wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
These are for t4 3+ w1 models? Howabout something like leman russ where inf pistol benefits(quite a lot) from holy trinity and multi damage useful and even flamer doubles damage.

Dunno. That would be target i would use ht for


I ran the numbers for the same thing back in beta. It was awful then, it's awful now. Besides which, I do this the next thing I'm going to be told is "well, realistically, they should always be in melta range and near a re-roll source..." and at that point the work gets more cumbersome than I have the time or resources for since I'm doing this simulations in Microsoft Excel...

Edit: Actually. Tell you what. If someone wants to pay me my hourly rate to work on this, I'll do whatever people want for sims so long as it doesn't interfere with my job and they aren't asking me to doctor the data somehow. It might take a few days - it took me about 6 hours to do that set of simulation and it didn't include any re-rolls. But I also won't release the data until I'm paid.


Nice work thus far, but I'm personally totally content with taking your word for it. You've shown you have a knack for analysis here and that's good enough for me.

Sadly, it's failure sucks because it was one of the few rules trying to encourage diverse weapon choices within a single unit. I am personally not a fan of the 40k wide tendency to select single purpose builds of some of these more customizable units. Seeing every Battle Sister in these lists basically just carrying two storm bolters feels totally lame. I see the same on the Deathwatch side, too - a unit that can equip a whole ton of weapons, but every single member is just carrying a storm bolter and a storm shield. Was truly hoping GW would have taken the time to make HT a differentiator and that this might lead to a reason to diversify within squads across the whole game.

Only thing I think we can do is continue to provide feedback. Is the FAQ email still the best place, or is there a more feedback specific email these days?



Honestly? That mindset has been there almost since the beginning and it's not GW's fault - it's actually basic economics.

When list building, you have several things at play you must consider:
* Scarcity - Points or Power Level allotment; required units in detachments; a maximum number of detachments, a maximum number of units within each detachment; Rule of X, Command Points...

* Opportunity costs related to the mission/setting (competitive, ITC, narrative, etc.) and the previously mentioned "scare" items

* Comparative vs Absolute advantage (build for comparative)

Squads of 4 lascannons get taken over squads of a heavy bolter, lascannon, plasma cannon, and missile launcher because of all of this. Especially when it comes to comparative and absolute advantage. To think of this concept another way:

Two roommates each have 1 hour a night where they can work on papers or do laundry.
Roommate A can type 6 pages an hour and can run 6 loads of laundry
Roommate B can type 4 pages an hour and can run 6 loads of laundry

Roommate B should do the laundry, roommate A should type the papers.

Why?

Roommate A has an absolute advantage typing papers (6/hr vs 4), but Roommate B has a comparative advantage doing laundry. For every 30 minutes he spends working on papers (2 pages), it costs him 3 loads of laundry. But every 30 minutes Roommate A spends on laundry (3 loads), it costs 3 pages of papers. Basically, Roommate A has a larger opportunity cost than Roommate B does. If they each spend 30 minutes on both activities, you would have 5 pages of papers typed and 6 loads of laundry done. If they specialized, however, the pair would get 6 loads of laundry done and 6 pages of papers typed.

The same is true with your squads. By specializing your squads to focus on a task, they're getting a comparative (and potentially absolute) advantage over being built for multiple roles. I didn't play in Rogue Trader, but this specialization vs. generalization hasn't changed in the last 7 editions of the game. It's always better to specialize units for a specific task than to have them be generalists.

Also, even if roommate A could do 6 pages an hour and 8 loads of laundry, it's better for both of them to specialize, with Roommate A doing the papers and Roommate B doing the laundry. Roommate A is 50% better at doing papers (6 vs 4) while Roommate B is only 25% worse at doing laundry (6 vs 8). Split focus and you have 5 pages of papers typed and 7 loads of laundry washed, whereas specializing results in 6 pages of papers (maximum efficiency) and 6 loads of laundry washed (maximum possible efficiency through specialization).


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 23:45:06


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Also, a unit with one of each heavy weapon just looks confused and awkward.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/19 23:57:33


Post by: Melissia


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Also, a unit with one of each heavy weapon just looks confused and awkward.
To be fair, that's because it is exactly that.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/20 00:45:47


Post by: Taikishi


tneva82 wrote:
Oh it's your time of course so do or don't do. Though curious why you chose t4 w1 models which is about last thing you would want to use it. Melta gets no benefit from stratagem and loses damage plus others gets less benefit than t7-t8 targets.

Dunno. If you bother to spend any time why not do the most logical target?

But as i don't see that stratagem as anythrng but situational buff anyway not big deal. Board situation matters more than math


I chose what I chose because it gets maximum effectiveness out of the bolt pistols and hand flamers. Even with +1 to-wound, firing bolt pistols and hand flamers at tanks is almost pointless.

Previously mentioned Seraphim Squad, Plasma Pistol overcharged. Inferno pistols in "melta" range. No convictions, no Rites:
Mean damage: 4.540
Mode damage: 1 (1213 / 10,000)
Standard deviation: 3.465
-1st deviation: 2-8 damage (62.58%)
-2nd deviation: 0-11 damage (96.03%)
-Odds of 12+ damage: 3.97% (1:25)
-Odds of 0 damage: 11.98% (1:8)
-Max possible: 18 -- 0.02%, or 1:5,000
-Mean damage from Bolt Pistols and Hand Flamers: 0.959

With Holy Trinity, no convictions, no rites:
Mean damage: 6.574
Mode damage: 7 (1030 / 10,000)
Standard deviation: 3.760
-1st deviation: 3-10 damage (68.48%)
-2nd deviation: 0-14 damage (97.46%)
-Odds of 15+ damage: 2.36% (1:42)
-Odds of 0 damage: 2.91% (1:34)
-Max probable damage: 20 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000
-Mean damage from Bolt Pistols and Hand Flamers: 1.887

15 bolt pistols, 1 overcharged plasma pistol, 4 inferno pistols in "melta" range:
Mean damage: 7.514 damage
Mode damage: 6 (947 / 10,000)
Standard deviation: 4.736 damage
-1st deviation: 3-12 damage (68.46%)
-2nd deviation: 0-16 damage (95.91%)
-Odds of 17+ damage: 4.09% (1:24)
-Odds of 0 damage: 6.54% (1:15)
-Maximum probable damage: 25 -- 0.04%, or 1:2,500
-Mean damage from Bolt Pistols: 0.5631

Based on that data, go ahead and take your Holy Trinity squads. I'll still do more damage with 4 inferno pistols and can spend a CP to use them through Burning Descent -- something you can't do with Holy Trinity. I'm getting almost 7 damage from my Plasma Pistol and Inferno Pistols without building for Holy Trinity. The Holy Trinity squad is getting about 4.7 damage from the same weapons. That's 48% more damage output without taking hand flamers and without spending a CP on Holy Trinity.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/20 01:21:40


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Even from the perpective of wanting to encourage units with mixed loadouts, Holy Trinity still isn't what it should be.

If the squad has a mixed loadout, it's not so that it can put the flamer, meltagun, and boltgun into the same unit, it's so that it can shoot the meltagun at a tank and the flamer at a squad of infantry.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/20 06:53:00


Post by: BrianDavion


Taikishi wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
Taikishi wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
These are for t4 3+ w1 models? Howabout something like leman russ where inf pistol benefits(quite a lot) from holy trinity and multi damage useful and even flamer doubles damage.

Dunno. That would be target i would use ht for


I ran the numbers for the same thing back in beta. It was awful then, it's awful now. Besides which, I do this the next thing I'm going to be told is "well, realistically, they should always be in melta range and near a re-roll source..." and at that point the work gets more cumbersome than I have the time or resources for since I'm doing this simulations in Microsoft Excel...

Edit: Actually. Tell you what. If someone wants to pay me my hourly rate to work on this, I'll do whatever people want for sims so long as it doesn't interfere with my job and they aren't asking me to doctor the data somehow. It might take a few days - it took me about 6 hours to do that set of simulation and it didn't include any re-rolls. But I also won't release the data until I'm paid.


Nice work thus far, but I'm personally totally content with taking your word for it. You've shown you have a knack for analysis here and that's good enough for me.

Sadly, it's failure sucks because it was one of the few rules trying to encourage diverse weapon choices within a single unit. I am personally not a fan of the 40k wide tendency to select single purpose builds of some of these more customizable units. Seeing every Battle Sister in these lists basically just carrying two storm bolters feels totally lame. I see the same on the Deathwatch side, too - a unit that can equip a whole ton of weapons, but every single member is just carrying a storm bolter and a storm shield. Was truly hoping GW would have taken the time to make HT a differentiator and that this might lead to a reason to diversify within squads across the whole game.

Only thing I think we can do is continue to provide feedback. Is the FAQ email still the best place, or is there a more feedback specific email these days?



Honestly? That mindset has been there almost since the beginning and it's not GW's fault - it's actually basic economics.

When list building, you have several things at play you must consider:
* Scarcity - Points or Power Level allotment; required units in detachments; a maximum number of detachments, a maximum number of units within each detachment; Rule of X, Command Points...

* Opportunity costs related to the mission/setting (competitive, ITC, narrative, etc.) and the previously mentioned "scare" items

* Comparative vs Absolute advantage (build for comparative)

Squads of 4 lascannons get taken over squads of a heavy bolter, lascannon, plasma cannon, and missile launcher because of all of this. Especially when it comes to comparative and absolute advantage. To think of this concept another way:

Two roommates each have 1 hour a night where they can work on papers or do laundry.
Roommate A can type 6 pages an hour and can run 6 loads of laundry
Roommate B can type 4 pages an hour and can run 6 loads of laundry

Roommate B should do the laundry, roommate A should type the papers.

Why?

Roommate A has an absolute advantage typing papers (6/hr vs 4), but Roommate B has a comparative advantage doing laundry. For every 30 minutes he spends working on papers (2 pages), it costs him 3 loads of laundry. But every 30 minutes Roommate A spends on laundry (3 loads), it costs 3 pages of papers. Basically, Roommate A has a larger opportunity cost than Roommate B does. If they each spend 30 minutes on both activities, you would have 5 pages of papers typed and 6 loads of laundry done. If they specialized, however, the pair would get 6 loads of laundry done and 6 pages of papers typed.

The same is true with your squads. By specializing your squads to focus on a task, they're getting a comparative (and potentially absolute) advantage over being built for multiple roles. I didn't play in Rogue Trader, but this specialization vs. generalization hasn't changed in the last 7 editions of the game. It's always better to specialize units for a specific task than to have them be generalists.

Also, even if roommate A could do 6 pages an hour and 8 loads of laundry, it's better for both of them to specialize, with Roommate A doing the papers and Roommate B doing the laundry. Roommate A is 50% better at doing papers (6 vs 4) while Roommate B is only 25% worse at doing laundry (6 vs 8). Split focus and you have 5 pages of papers typed and 7 loads of laundry washed, whereas specializing results in 6 pages of papers (maximum efficiency) and 6 loads of laundry washed (maximum possible efficiency through specialization).


except if they're writing papers it's presumably for school and both of them need to write those damn papers


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/21 13:06:03


Post by: Lemondish


We're also kind of forgetting one major thing.

In this weird papers versus laundry scenario, nobody is trying to murder the students to reduce their efficiency.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/21 13:23:18


Post by: tneva82


Well next weekend there's supposed to be tournament though looks awfully lot like it will be cancelled(3 players atm). Got permission to proxy imagifiers a bit(guess with this amount of attendees organizer sure as hell can't afford to turn one away ) so here's list I'm taking if that actually gets couple more attendees(6 is minimum)

Spoiler:

Order of Pure Heart

Brigade - Valorous heart

HQ: Celestine(Warlord: beacon of faith) 160
HQ: Canoness(relic: Iron surplice of St. Istaela, plasma pistol, power sword, rod of office) 59
HQ: Missionary(autogun and laspistol, chainsword) 38
HQ(no slot): Inquisitor Coteaz

Elite: Imagifier(tale of stoic) 45
Elite: imagifier(tale of stoic) 45
Elite: 10xcelestian(2xmeltagun, superior w/power maul & combi melta, incensor cherub, simulcranum) 157
Elite: 6xsister repentia 78

Troop: 5xbattle sister(2xstorm bolter, superior w/chainsword&boltgun) 49
Troop: 5xbattle sister(2xstorm bolter, superior w/chainsword&boltgun) 49
Troop: 7xbattle sister(2xflamer, simulcranum, superior w/combi melta&chainsword) 95
Troop: 8xbattle sister(2xmeltagun, simulcranum, incensor cherub, superior w/combi flamer&chainsword) 118
Troop: 7xbattle sister(2xstorm bolter, simulcranum, superior w/combi melta&chainsword) 87
Troop: 6xbattle sister(2xstorm bolter, simulcranum, superior w/combi meltar&chainsword) 78

Fast: 10xdominion(4xstorm bolter, simulcranum, superior w/combi plasma&chainsword) 124
Fast: 5xseraphim(2xtwin inferno pistol, superior w/plasma pistol&power sword) 92
Fast: 5xseraphim(2xtwin inferno pistol, superior w/plasma pistol&power sword) 92

Heavy: Exorcist(exorcist missile launcher) 170
Heavy: Exorcist(exorcist missile launcher) 170
Heavy: 10xretributor(4xmulti melta, simulcranum, 2xarmoured cherub, superior w/chainsword) 203


Fairly typical VH brigade I would assume except for only 2 exorcist but don't have 3rd yet.

Looking forward to getting another canoness so I'm not forced to take 160 pts celestine. Shes good but minimum's are pushing expensive for my brigades.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/21 13:26:18


Post by: Taikishi




I know you two are trying to be silly, but it doesn't change the base analogy and that it can be applied to wargaming. Which is basically that having units that specialize in different tasks will always perform better comparatively to generalist units.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/21 14:38:17


Post by: Grundz


Playing around with a faith based list, that I wanted to shoehorn triumph into but it seems to work.

-standard valorous heart brigade but with trinity+multimelta BSS squads with a simulacrum
-supported by a sacred rose supreme command, canoness with dice recycling loadout, triumph and a missionary, as well as a battle sanctum
-the above should recycle 2-3 dice per turn and generate an additional 3
-dialogus/triumph allow the BSS squads to move and shoot their multimeltas pretty much at will being able to sub in a 3+ for an autohit

Spoiler:

++ Fortification Network (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Order Convictions: Order: Sacred Rose

+ Fortification +

Battle Sanctum

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Order Convictions: Order: Sacred Rose

+ HQ +

Canoness: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Heroine in the Making, Relic: Wrath of The Emperor

Missionary
Bolt Pistol and Shotgun

Triumph of Saint Katherine

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Open the Reliquaries: 4x Additional Relics of the Ecclesiarchy

Order Convictions: Order: Valorous Heart

+ HQ +

Canoness: Blessed Blade, Bolt pistol, Relic: Casket of Penance

Canoness: Blessed Blade, Bolt pistol, Relic: Blade of Admonition

Missionary
Bolt Pistol and Shotgun

+ Troops +

BSS Stormbolters, Inferno - Battle Sister Squad
2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-flamer

BSS Stormbolters, Inferno - Battle Sister Squad
2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-flamer

BSS Stormbolters, Inferno - Battle Sister Squad
2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-flamer

BSS Stormbolters, Inferno - Battle Sister Squad
2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-flamer

BSS Stormbolters, Inferno - Battle Sister Squad
2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-flamer

BSS Stormbolters, Inferno - Battle Sister Squad
2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-flamer

+ Elites +

Dialogus

Imagifier: Relic: Book of St. Lucius, Tale of the Stoic, Tale of the Warrior, Venerated Saint, Warlord, Warlord Trait: 5. Indomitable Belief

Imagifier: Tale of the Stoic

Zephyrim Squad
6x Zephyrim: 6x Power sword
Zephyrim Superior: Bolt pistol, Power sword

+ Fast Attack +

Stormbolter Dominion Squad - Dominion Squad
Dominion Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter

Seraphim Squad
2x Seraphim
Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Plasma pistol
Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols
Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols

Seraphim Squad
2x Seraphim
Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Plasma pistol
Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols
Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols

+ Heavy Support +

Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter

Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter

Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/21 22:31:06


Post by: ArikTaranis


A few questions -

By your reading, does the addition of an inquisitor prevent your army from getting sacred rites? I initially glossed over the wording and thought it wouldn't break the sacred rights requirements, but now I'm not so sure. The wording refers to abilities that require every model in an army to have an ability (combat doctrines, canticles), which is NOT the same as the sisters requirements of every model having specific faction keywords. I'm desperately hoping it would be fine, as I want to have Karamazov as my warlord in a sisters army but still get a sacred rite, because I feel they're really characterful.

Also, is it likely that 3 exorcists (Valorous heart and imagifiers) supported by sprinkled melta weapons in infantry squads (mostly inferno pistols) would be enough anti tank/monsters at 2000 points? I'm struggling a little to figure out where the killing power (for big enemies) comes from in this army.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/21 23:24:55


Post by: IanVanCheese


ArikTaranis wrote:
A few questions -

By your reading, does the addition of an inquisitor prevent your army from getting sacred rites? I initially glossed over the wording and thought it wouldn't break the sacred rights requirements, but now I'm not so sure. The wording refers to abilities that require every model in an army to have an ability (combat doctrines, canticles), which is NOT the same as the sisters requirements of every model having specific faction keywords. I'm desperately hoping it would be fine, as I want to have Karamazov as my warlord in a sisters army but still get a sacred rite, because I feel they're really characterful.

Also, is it likely that 3 exorcists (Valorous heart and imagifiers) supported by sprinkled melta weapons in infantry squads (mostly inferno pistols) would be enough anti tank/monsters at 2000 points? I'm struggling a little to figure out where the killing power (for big enemies) comes from in this army.


I think it's clear that the intention is that it doesn't break it, GW just can't use consistent wording between codexes.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/22 02:31:40


Post by: frgsinwntr


ArikTaranis wrote:
A few questions -

By your reading, does the addition of an inquisitor prevent your army from getting sacred rites? I initially glossed over the wording and thought it wouldn't break the sacred rights requirements, but now I'm not so sure. The wording refers to abilities that require every model in an army to have an ability (combat doctrines, canticles), which is NOT the same as the sisters requirements of every model having specific faction keywords. I'm desperately hoping it would be fine, as I want to have Karamazov as my warlord in a sisters army but still get a sacred rite, because I feel they're really characterful.

Also, is it likely that 3 exorcists (Valorous heart and imagifiers) supported by sprinkled melta weapons in infantry squads (mostly inferno pistols) would be enough anti tank/monsters at 2000 points? I'm struggling a little to figure out where the killing power (for big enemies) comes from in this army.


The killing power comes from the ability to use MD for the d6 damage.

other than that you need to use units like repentia.

sisters still suffer from the fact they have no "true hammer" unit.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/22 03:22:14


Post by: Porphyrius


Hello all, looking for a little advice for starting SoB and how to build my first few boxes. I want to go Bloody Rose and while I know that it won't be hyper-competitive to go with a single order for all my detachments, I'm not super interested in mixing orders as I plan to paint everything with the same paint scheme. Obviously I'll need some good melee dedicated units, but I'm also looking to start with a solid core of troops.

With that in mind, what should I start with? I'm thinking of getting maybe 3 boxes of sisters, to make 3x5 units of sisters (2 meltas, bare superior), a unit of celestians (how should I outfit them?), a unit of dominions (4 storm bolters, bare superior), 2 canonesses, and an imagifier. Does this make sense as a starting point? I also already have an old metal preacher/missionary I could use, as well as an inquisitor. I'm thinking I'd want to avoid armor entirely, in order to render opposing heavy weapons largely useless; rhinos aren't that tough to crack, and I don't know that it's worth it to load every unit into one. Of course I'm going to want Zephyrim and seraphim, as well as repentia, but I want to wait until the upcoming releases for those.

If I want to get something together for a 500 point army that will grow over time into a 2000 point force, does this make sense? Or should I build in a different direction?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/22 05:30:40


Post by: mrwhoop


@Porphyrius
Spoiler:
 Porphyrius wrote:
Hello all, looking for a little advice for starting SoB and how to build my first few boxes. I want to go Bloody Rose and while I know that it won't be hyper-competitive to go with a single order for all my detachments, I'm not super interested in mixing orders as I plan to paint everything with the same paint scheme. Obviously I'll need some good melee dedicated units, but I'm also looking to start with a solid core of troops.

With that in mind, what should I start with? I'm thinking of getting maybe 3 boxes of sisters, to make 3x5 units of sisters (2 meltas, bare superior), a unit of celestians (how should I outfit them?), a unit of dominions (4 storm bolters, bare superior), 2 canonesses, and an imagifier. Does this make sense as a starting point? I also already have an old metal preacher/missionary I could use, as well as an inquisitor. I'm thinking I'd want to avoid armor entirely, in order to render opposing heavy weapons largely useless; rhinos aren't that tough to crack, and I don't know that it's worth it to load every unit into one. Of course I'm going to want Zephyrim and seraphim, as well as repentia, but I want to wait until the upcoming releases for those.

If I want to get something together for a 500 point army that will grow over time into a 2000 point force, does this make sense? Or should I build in a different direction?


I can agree about not wanting to multi Order the Sisters but I like Ebon Chalice for flaming goodness as well as the assault element of Bloody Rose. Thankfully, it has been easy to point to shooty things as EC and Stabby things as BR. I personally wouldn't outfit 2 meltas into 1 squad but then again I like using a heavy bolter to sit on an objective and let the girls carrying flamers get in close. The Celstians I either keep bare to soak bodyguard wounds or a power sword/ax on the superior to charge in before the Relic wielding Canoness comes in. And as EC, being able to soak MWs on a 5+ has been fun. Not having that with BR, you may want to keep them cheap. Lastly, I can see trying to deny AT weapons for your opponent but Repentia in a rhino just adds too many things for me to try running them. Not being shot right away (say by pure knight lists) +3 inches to get out helps them into charge range, and the rhino can soak overwatch. On another note, I have been hit and miss on Sacred Rites so I can say bringing SM Suppressors to kill overwatch has also been a good tool to keep in mind. And if nothing else, bring what you can play: as in if it's fun or you can better remember their rules you should try it.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/22 17:32:26


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 Porphyrius wrote:
Hello all, looking for a little advice for starting SoB and how to build my first few boxes. I want to go Bloody Rose and while I know that it won't be hyper-competitive to go with a single order for all my detachments, I'm not super interested in mixing orders as I plan to paint everything with the same paint scheme. Obviously I'll need some good melee dedicated units, but I'm also looking to start with a solid core of troops.

With that in mind, what should I start with? I'm thinking of getting maybe 3 boxes of sisters, to make 3x5 units of sisters (2 meltas, bare superior), a unit of celestians (how should I outfit them?), a unit of dominions (4 storm bolters, bare superior), 2 canonesses, and an imagifier. Does this make sense as a starting point? I also already have an old metal preacher/missionary I could use, as well as an inquisitor. I'm thinking I'd want to avoid armor entirely, in order to render opposing heavy weapons largely useless; rhinos aren't that tough to crack, and I don't know that it's worth it to load every unit into one. Of course I'm going to want Zephyrim and seraphim, as well as repentia, but I want to wait until the upcoming releases for those.

If I want to get something together for a 500 point army that will grow over time into a 2000 point force, does this make sense? Or should I build in a different direction?


That seems valid as a starting point. At 500 points you're only going to have one order, anyway, and as far as things go, I'm increasingly running mono-order lists because there's only a small number of units that want a different order [and they're slowly vanishing from my lists]

Exorcists are out only "reach out and touch someone" unit, and you'll probably find that if your entire AT selection is 12" range you'll just get kited and destroyed by someone with armor at 500 points. Consider including Rets. You're going to want them eventually anyway.

At 500 points either the Imagifier probably won't go as far as you're hoping. As BR, you might want to include the preacher over the second canoness if you keep the imagifier so your melee is A3 S4 AP1 [which is better than your shooting]


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 02:33:59


Post by: Melissia


So working along my BR mechanized theme, I think I found something that will probably work for me as a goal to try to reach in the next few years (finances being the main limit here).

Spoiler:
Warlord: Canoness w/Blessed Blade, Plasma Pistol, Litanies of Faith, Beacon of Faith
Canoness (Heroine) w/Beneficence, Inferno Pistol, Righteous Rage
Canoness w/Power Sword, Plasma Pistol, Rod of Office, Iron Surplice

Celestian Squad w/2x Storm Bolters, Power Maul
Celestian Squad w/2x Storm Bolters, Power Maul
Celestian Squad w/2x Storm Bolters, Power Maul
Imagifier: Verified Saint, Tale of the Stoic, Tale of the Warrior

Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword

Seraphim Squad w/2x twin Inferno Pistols, Power Sword
Seraphim Squad w/2x twin Inferno Pistols, Power Sword
Seraphim Squad w/2x twin Inferno Pistols, Power Sword

Exorcist w/Exorcist Launcher
Exorcist w/Exorcist Launcher
Exorcist w/Exorcist Launcher

Transports: Rhino x6


I still prefer the idea of mechanized. But this is, I think, fairly optimized mechanized as far as my theme goes. I kinda wanted to fit some Repentia in there, but I'm unsure as to how I would really want to do that... I feel Celestians are just a lot more adaptable and versatile even if Repentia can hit pretty hard with the Imagifier buffing them.

Am also working on a 1k and a 500 point version of it. I think I love what they did with Celestians too much to not have a unit of them per canoness, lol.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 04:10:14


Post by: BrianDavion


so regarding repenta, do people figure they're best marched up the board cheaply or tossed in a transport?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 04:31:54


Post by: Lammia


BrianDavion wrote:
so regarding repenta, do people figure they're best marched up the board cheaply or tossed in a transport?
I would transport them. I've had fun using an Immolator to push my melee units up the board t1 while using it as a tank, but Rhinos are better transports


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 04:35:13


Post by: BrianDavion


Lammia wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
so regarding repenta, do people figure they're best marched up the board cheaply or tossed in a transport?
I would transport them. I've had fun using an Immolator to push my melee units up the board t1 while using it as a tank, but Rhinos are better transports


it'd be expensive but a 5 woman BSS squad in a immolator escorting a 10 strong repenta squad in a rhino might not be too bad, sue the immolator as a distraction carnifex


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 04:40:41


Post by: Lammia


BrianDavion wrote:
Lammia wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
so regarding repenta, do people figure they're best marched up the board cheaply or tossed in a transport?
I would transport them. I've had fun using an Immolator to push my melee units up the board t1 while using it as a tank, but Rhinos are better transports


it'd be expensive but a 5 woman BSS squad in a immolator escorting a 10 strong repenta squad in a rhino might not be too bad, sue the immolator as a distraction carnifex
I generally chuck either 2× Arco squads or 1× Arcos and my Missionary in the VH Immolator...


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 04:42:12


Post by: Melissia


Immolators are a LOT of points for what feels like not much gain... it might really be best to choose cheaper transports. Even Rhinos can absorb overwatch at least.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 04:57:08


Post by: Lammia


 Melissia wrote:
Immolators are a LOT of points for what feels like not much gain... it might really be best to choose cheaper transports. Even Rhinos can absorb overwatch at least.
Oh, they're as much a transport as a Land Raider(read: not at all) but Immolation Flamer + 10 d3 hits from the Arcos is enough damage on troops to keep shots on that unit and off Exos and Rhinos.

Plus, they'll explode when they die


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 05:43:49


Post by: davidgr33n


Today I tried out a new idea and thought I’d get some feedback.

Won 2 games, my list had a BR Vanguard which included 3x 10-man squads of Celestians in a blob, supported by Missionary, Canoness and Imagifier giving +1Str, +1A and ignore -1AP. Being guarded by Celestians the BR Characters passed their wounds on and couldn’t be nailed.

The beauty of the setup is for a much lower price than Zephyrim, on attack 10 buffed Celestians and Superior with chainsword hit at Str4 with 42 attacks, their close combat weapons are AP-1 (BRB under Choose Melee Weapon), Canoness buff gives re-roll all missed hits shooting/melee, and the BR Strat and the Celestian Strat can increase it even more. Add a power maul on the Superior for taking on bigger baddies.

In 2 games my 30 Celestian blob with buffs took down nearly double their number of orcs with nearly a squad surviving, and against Tau made it to the Tau gunline and nearly rolled up the entire line after breaking in.

The buffs can get stronger, for example bringing a VH Canoness with a Casket Relic to reduce the opponents T by 1. Or bringing a psyker Inquisitor to shut down overwatch.

Just seeing if anyone has used their Celestians in more of a melee role like this.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 07:52:26


Post by: MacPhail


 Melissia wrote:
So working along my BR mechanized theme, I think I found something that will probably work for me as a goal to try to reach in the next few years (finances being the main limit here).

Spoiler:
Warlord: Canoness w/Blessed Blade, Plasma Pistol, Litanies of Faith, Beacon of Faith
Canoness (Heroine) w/Beneficence, Inferno Pistol, Righteous Rage
Canoness w/Power Sword, Plasma Pistol, Rod of Office, Iron Surplice

Celestian Squad w/2x Storm Bolters, Power Maul
Celestian Squad w/2x Storm Bolters, Power Maul
Celestian Squad w/2x Storm Bolters, Power Maul
Imagifier: Verified Saint, Tale of the Stoic, Tale of the Warrior

Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword

Seraphim Squad w/2x twin Inferno Pistols, Power Sword
Seraphim Squad w/2x twin Inferno Pistols, Power Sword
Seraphim Squad w/2x twin Inferno Pistols, Power Sword

Exorcist w/Exorcist Launcher
Exorcist w/Exorcist Launcher
Exorcist w/Exorcist Launcher

Transports: Rhino x6


I still prefer the idea of mechanized. But this is, I think, fairly optimized mechanized as far as my theme goes. I kinda wanted to fit some Repentia in there, but I'm unsure as to how I would really want to do that... I feel Celestians are just a lot more adaptable and versatile even if Repentia can hit pretty hard with the Imagifier buffing them.

Am also working on a 1k and a 500 point version of it. I think I love what they did with Celestians too much to not have a unit of them per canoness, lol.

At a glance it looks very solid for the points. I'd probably put half those meltas on Celestians due to their rerolls. Maybe swap a Seraphim for stormbolter Dominions to get in on the strat. Probably really fun at those lower values too!

I got in a closely fought game against Necrons today and managed a win after nearly tabling him in four turns. It was my first solid win against Necrons this edition after struggling against them. I'm very impressed with both Valorous Heart and Bloody Rose. I managed a Brigade and a Battlion and they were both solid in their way... hard to wear down, and very choppy respectively.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 09:35:00


Post by: tneva82


BrianDavion wrote:
so regarding repenta, do people figure they're best marched up the board cheaply or tossed in a transport?


Another idea is hiding in safety as counter attack purpose. Saves rhino costs and if you don'" have other assault elements single repentia squad in rhino is just target practice


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 13:59:34


Post by: Melissia


Not sure I want to do Dominions. The problem is I'd either have to get another transport for them, or I'd have to load up all my characters in one Rhino to be popped quickly.

And unfortunately Dominions don't appear to give their scout ability to their transports any more so they'd literally just be there for the additional special weapons, and I think I'd prefer the anti-tank Seraphim. Certainly I have absolutely no use for trying for the Holy Trinity stratagem with this list.

As for meltaguns on the Celestians, the problem with that is my Celestians are going to be charging enemies, and having that many points of shooting intentionally stuck in melee is usually a bad idea.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 14:36:26


Post by: MacPhail


 davidgr33n wrote:
Today I tried out a new idea and thought I’d get some feedback... Just seeing if anyone has used their Celestians in more of a melee role like this.


I definitely use them in a melee role, but not on that scale. I've been running seven of them in a Rhino with the buffing characters and the blender Canoness and they're great. I have been wishing for more, but last game I supplemented not with more Celestians, but with 3x5 stock BR BSS who arrived on foot just about the Celestians start to wither away from tanking wounds for the Canoness. It worked okay, and maybe better than okay considering the extra CP it brought in, but more Celestians is definitely a thing I'll consider for the future. I'm not surprised the build you describe managed those two big tallies against Tau and Orks. Celestians are just really good for their points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Melissia wrote:
Not sure I want to do Dominions. The problem is I'd either have to get another transport for them...

As for meltaguns on the Celestians, the problem with that is my Celestians are going to be charging enemies, and having that many points of shooting intentionally stuck in melee is usually a bad idea.


I'm starting to like the idea of transporting Dominions... I might package a squad of them in a Rhino with a BSS with max melta and send one up each flank to harass and be dangerous to ignore.

Fair point on the melta Celestians. I ran mine without last game and did find myself wishing for some AT punch at one point, but that's because they had wandered off on their own.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 15:42:36


Post by: alextroy


 Melissia wrote:
So working along my BR mechanized theme, I think I found something that will probably work for me as a goal to try to reach in the next few years (finances being the main limit here).

Spoiler:
Warlord: Canoness w/Blessed Blade, Plasma Pistol, Litanies of Faith, Beacon of Faith
Canoness (Heroine) w/Beneficence, Inferno Pistol, Righteous Rage
Canoness w/Power Sword, Plasma Pistol, Rod of Office, Iron Surplice

Celestian Squad w/2x Storm Bolters, Power Maul
Celestian Squad w/2x Storm Bolters, Power Maul
Celestian Squad w/2x Storm Bolters, Power Maul
Imagifier: Verified Saint, Tale of the Stoic, Tale of the Warrior

Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad w/2x Meltaguns, Chainsword

Seraphim Squad w/2x twin Inferno Pistols, Power Sword
Seraphim Squad w/2x twin Inferno Pistols, Power Sword
Seraphim Squad w/2x twin Inferno Pistols, Power Sword

Exorcist w/Exorcist Launcher
Exorcist w/Exorcist Launcher
Exorcist w/Exorcist Launcher

Transports: Rhino x6


I still prefer the idea of mechanized. But this is, I think, fairly optimized mechanized as far as my theme goes. I kinda wanted to fit some Repentia in there, but I'm unsure as to how I would really want to do that... I feel Celestians are just a lot more adaptable and versatile even if Repentia can hit pretty hard with the Imagifier buffing them.

Am also working on a 1k and a 500 point version of it. I think I love what they did with Celestians too much to not have a unit of them per canoness, lol.
I don't really like this list. By going for a fully mech Brigade, you end up with a 60 Sisters in minimum squads. They will lack in both punch and staying power once they unload from the Rhinos. They also won't be able to utilize Stratagems very well since they will never affect more than 5 models at a time.

Drop a Rhino, one Celestian Squad, and leave a Cannoness and two BBS (swap out the Meltaguns for Storm Bolters on these two) in the backfield with the Exorcist. You want the rerolls on the Exorcist anyway and you need some objective holders. You now have a bunch of points for adding a Missionary or Preacher to the advancing team for more melee punch along with buffing up the squad size of the two remaining Celestian squads to make them more effective and durable.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 17:16:05


Post by: Melissia


 alextroy wrote:
They will lack in both punch and staying power
[...]
Drop a Rhino, one Celestian Squad, and leave a Cannoness and two BBS (swap out the Meltaguns for Storm Bolters on these two) in the backfield with the Exorcist.

Aside from the fact that I'm not going to bring a Priest in, this would actually reduce my overall power. Having more bodies in the celestian squads by getting rid of one of the other celestian squads would remove a celestian power maul and two storm bolters, so it would be pretty sub-optimal. And leaving the BSS with the exorcists means they can't use their meltaguns effectively.

I actually was thinking of leaving the litanies canoness behind with the exorcists, since I want her to stay the entire game for that rerollable miracle die every turn. One of my options was to have two exorcists and a heavy bolter retributor squad to hang back, but was never sure aboutr it compared to having three exorcists.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 17:59:41


Post by: tneva82


 alextroy wrote:
. You now have a bunch of points for adding a Missionary or Preacher to the advancing team for more melee punch along with buffing up the squad size of the two remaining Celestian squads to make them more effective and durable.


Bigger squads with no special buffs are just softer targets. You take msu for durability. Big squads for stratagems


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 18:51:56


Post by: Melissia


Also, separating them in to smaller squads means more storm bolters (or meltagun, if you want to put them on celestians, though for BR Celestians I would not) and power mauls/axes.

In having three celestian squads, I have the equivalent of 21 bolters and 3 power mauls across 15 models, with a total of 36 attacks on the charge plus 12 power maul attacks.

If I got rid of a squad and say had eight and nine in the remaining squads (need room for the two canonesses and the imagifier after all), I'd have 17 models sure... which equates to 21 bolters and two power mauls. A total of 45 attacks on the charge and 8 power maul attacks.

So the shooting phase would be identical, aside from being able to split fire better. But the melee would be much less impressive. The additional 9 s3 ap-1 attacks are definitely inferior to having 4 s5 ap-2 attacks for anything that's not a guardsman.

Since the shooting would be the same, even with The Passion taken in to consideration, that's only an additional 1.5 S3 AP-1 hits over the MSU setup, which is certainly not nothing. But the potential for additional power maul hits is way more important for me, and the MSU has an increase in 0.67 average additional power maul hits over the increase that the larger squads have, and that is much more likely to cause a kill than the S3 hit on a Marine.

I've put way too much thought in to my little plastic soldiers


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 19:24:59


Post by: Maelstrom808


I think it comes down to your intended strat usage. A larger unit of celestians can make better use of their reroll everything strat and the BR +1 to wound strat. Going MSU and avoiding the strats altogether to put your CP in other areas is perfectly valid as well imo.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 20:46:35


Post by: ZergSmasher


BrianDavion wrote:
so regarding repenta, do people figure they're best marched up the board cheaply or tossed in a transport?

I think you could go either way with them. Putting them in a Rhino helps keep them safe at first because your opponent has to blow up the transport before he can work on the juicy contents, but that costs some points and really is only useful if you've got more mechanized elements in the list already. I'm starting to lean toward footslogging them lately. Take a Canoness with Indomitable Belief (+1 Shield of Faith save) and Celestine (another +1) with them and they have a 4++/5+++, plus you've saved the cost of any Rhinos your units might need. Of course, on an open board your Repentia will take a lot of fire, but if you've got some shooty elements moving up as well your opponent will have more targets than guns and will have to make choices as to which things to kill.

I was originally thinking of doing a mechanized list, and I still may try it, but nowadays I'm starting to think of doing something similar to what Jancoran posted a couple of pages ago with mostly foot troops (and 3 Exorcists) as I think in ITC play it'll give up fewer secondaries. Yes I know not everyone plays ITC, let's not open that can of worms again, but that's what my local tournament scene uses. Specifically I'm thinking of 2 big units of BR Repentia with their supporting cast (Celestine, Murder Canoness with Indomitable Belief, Whip Lady, Preacher) plus a 3-model unit of Mortifiers or Penitent Engines (probably Mortys) as my assault element, and a Brigade of VH as my shooty element. I'll have to play around in Battlescribe and see what I can throw together.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/23 21:21:11


Post by: alextroy


Melissia wrote:Also, separating them in to smaller squads means more storm bolters (or meltagun, if you want to put them on celestians, though for BR Celestians I would not) and power mauls/axes.

In having three celestian squads, I have the equivalent of 21 bolters and 3 power mauls across 15 models, with a total of 36 attacks on the charge plus 12 power maul attacks.

If I got rid of a squad and say had eight and nine in the remaining squads (need room for the two canonesses and the imagifier after all), I'd have 17 models sure... which equates to 21 bolters and two power mauls. A total of 45 attacks on the charge and 8 power maul attacks.

So the shooting phase would be identical, aside from being able to split fire better. But the melee would be much less impressive. The additional 9 s3 ap-1 attacks are definitely inferior to having 4 s5 ap-2 attacks for anything that's not a guardsman.

Since the shooting would be the same, even with The Passion taken in to consideration, that's only an additional 1.5 S3 AP-1 hits over the MSU setup, which is certainly not nothing. But the potential for additional power maul hits is way more important for me, and the MSU has an increase in 0.67 average additional power maul hits over the increase that the larger squads have, and that is much more likely to cause a kill than the S3 hit on a Marine.

I've put way too much thought in to my little plastic soldiers


Maelstrom808 wrote:I think it comes down to your intended strat usage. A larger unit of celestians can make better use of their reroll everything strat and the BR +1 to wound strat. Going MSU and avoiding the strats altogether to put your CP in other areas is perfectly valid as well imo.
Exactly. Less units means it is easier to stay in the character bubbles and the Stratagems impact more models. The reason to run all those BR Celestials is to get them into combat.

What is better? 1 more Power Maul or nearly double the impact when using Exceptional Proficiency (re-roll all hits and wounds) and/or Tear Them Down. Add in that the dual squads means you actually have more Celestians on the line and you can split the Stratagem Love without leaving a unit on the outside. I also think the S3 vs S5 Issue isn't that important when you have a Imagifer standing there saying "you're S 4, kill those marines!"

That is where the true power in 8th Edition comes from. Not the specific units by themselves, but the stacking of units, Convictions (or equivalents) Character Auras, and Stratagems. If you maximize those, you get more than then the sum of the parts. That's why so many Iron Hands armies run a 10-man Intercessor squad with Bolt Rifles. Because despite all that Iron Hands goodness on the Stalker-Pattern Bolt Rifles, there is nothing like getting double-shot by 10 double-tapping Intercessors.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 00:35:50


Post by: Melissia


Having fewer units also means it's easier to be focus-fired on. Regardless, the S5 vs S3 issue is definitely important, because S5/S6 are both still superior to S4, and the additional AP still counts regardless. Were you talking about a power axe instead of a power maul, you might be right (S5 and S6 are basically equivalent vs T4), but either way both have a superior AP value over basic attacks. The basic attacks are nice at ap-1, but additional AP is always useful against anything more armored up than Ork Boyz. Your argument regarding strategems is very slightly better, but Celestians already reroll all to-hit rolls natively (as logn as they're near a Canoness; and in my setup, they'd always be near one), and having one fewer unit isn't going to make a huge difference at a 2000 point game stratagem-wise, particularly not for a Brigade. Meaning I could save the stratagems for my Canonesses for something like Divine Intervention, or Deadly Descent for Seraphim. And Blessed Bolts is superb on Celestians with rerolled to-hit rolls from being near a canoness-- having three squads with storm bolters gives more options on when and where to use it.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 04:39:11


Post by: Maelstrom808


Out of my own curiosity, I ran some numbers. Wounds inflicted in combat assuming Bloody Rose, Missionary, Canoness, Power Maul on Sister Superiors:

Spoiler:
1 unit of 10 Celestians:
GEQ - 21.48
MEQ - 9.98
Dreadnought - 6.32
Knight - 3.65

2 units of 5 Celestians:
GEQ - 23.21
MEQ - 11.06
Dreadnought - 6.72
Knight - 4.35

1 unit of 10 Celestians using Exceptional Proficiency:
GEQ - 28.02
MEQ - 14.63
Dreadnought - 10.53
Knight - 6.53

2 units of 5 Celestians using Exceptional Proficiency on 1 squad:
GEQ - 26.46
MEQ - 13.50
Dreadnought - 8.95
Knight - 5.99

1 unit of 10 Celestians using Tear Them Down:
GEQ - 25.93
MEQ - 13.14
Dreadnought - 9.48
Knight - 6.81

2 units of 5 Celestians using Tear Them Down on 1 squad:
GEQ - 25.19
MEQ - 12.74
Dreadnought - 8.40
Knight - 6.02

1 unit of 10 Celestians using Exceptional Proficiency and Tear Them Down:
GEQ - 30.25
MEQ - 17.10
Dreadnought - 14.22
Knight - 11.11

2 units of 5 Celestians using Exceptional Proficiency and Tear Them Down on 1 squad:
GEQ - 27.45
MEQ - 14.73
Dreadnought - 10.91
Knight - 8.35



Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 04:41:56


Post by: Melissia


Just to be clear, I assume that's purely assault phase, and doesn't include things like shooting and the two extra storm bolters the two five-woman squads would have vs the one ten-woman squad?

That's fairly interesting and certainly lends credence to what I had in mind. I try not to overindulge on using cp for basic things.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 05:36:07


Post by: Orlanth


What is everyones take on a four storm bolter minimum size Dominion squad. Not bad firepower for 55pts in my opinion.
What do I arm the superior with? I am thinking combi-flamer, or just bolter and chainsword.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 05:44:37


Post by: Maelstrom808


 Melissia wrote:
Just to be clear, I assume that's purely assault phase, and doesn't include things like shooting and the two extra storm bolters the two five-woman squads would have vs the one ten-woman squad?

That's fairly interesting and certainly lends credence to what I had in mind. I try not to overindulge on using cp for basic things.


Purely assault. Shooting does favor 2 smaller squads of course, bearing in mind that that also comes with an increased points cost, although minor. Again, I think it shows that either approach has merit. Which approach is correct depends heavily on the composition of the rest of the list and intended CP usage.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 09:32:33


Post by: tneva82


True. Stratagems are valid reasons for 10 strong units. Not denying that. I just disagree with idea that 10 strong units are more durable. More durable than 5 yes but not more durable than 2x5 and with the way 40k rules work rather softer. No worry about having to split fire or overkill for the enemy and more morale casualties.

If you plan to use stratagems 10 strong squads certainly make more sense. Then it comes down more to your overall strategy where you expect to use your CP's aka do you have CP to use those stratagems.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 13:51:23


Post by: Grundz


 Orlanth wrote:
What is everyones take on a four storm bolter minimum size Dominion squad. Not bad firepower for 55pts in my opinion.
What do I arm the superior with? I am thinking combi-flamer, or just bolter and chainsword.


that is what I run because taking a third small seraphim squad seems to be a waste when I can only flaming descent twice per game and gotta fill up that brigade.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 14:27:21


Post by: Melissia


I mean I considered it. Mostly just because 4 storm bolters with blessed bolts can be pretty devastating. What mostly stopped me was that it would create the need for more transports for my mechanized list.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 16:22:44


Post by: Orlanth


 Melissia wrote:
I mean I considered it. Mostly just because 4 storm bolters with blessed bolts can be pretty devastating. What mostly stopped me was that it would create the need for more transports for my mechanized list.


Isn't that an excuse for another Immo, and a good squad to put in one.

Anyway I am asking in general because I do not like current Sisters vehicles, other than the walkers and am planning a Femminid horde list, well a small one. My main concern is ratio of Sisters to heavy and special weapons. The girls are cheap, the wargear is not. This was a starter question.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 16:25:33


Post by: Grundz


 Orlanth wrote:


Anyway I am asking in general because I do not like current Sisters vehicles, other than the walkers and am planning a Femminid horde list, well a small one. My main concern is ratio of Sisters to heavy and special weapons. The girls are cheap, the wargear is not. This was a starter question.


my consideration has been to stack up on heavy weapons and ret squads/faith then have a huge number of guardsmen up front

you lose doctrines, but with faith fueled damage rolls on a rock hard backline that wastes typical anti tank weapons, it might work.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 17:51:13


Post by: Melissia


 Orlanth wrote:
Isn't that an excuse for another Immo, and a good squad to put in one.
The choice is between 168 points for a dominion squad and flamer immolator, or 183 points for a Rhino and two of said dominion squads.

The extra price gives you twice the blessed bolter firepower, instead of relying on the Immolator's firepower, and twice hte bodies. But what works for you depends on your list. Immolators are expensive as feth for what they deliver tho.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 18:17:26


Post by: MacPhail


My thoughts on Dominions... I might add some bodies to the squads and use Vanguard to get them in range, or keep them small so they can share a Rhino with the tri-melta BSS. A block of three Dominion squads with maxed out stormbolters, a few extra meat shields, a Canoness and a Missionary to keep them from running, all in rapid fire range turn 1, with Blessed Bolts on one and maybe Divine Guidance for the rest, would be a cheap way to fill out a Brigade and throw a lot of dice. More realistically, though, is a Rhino on each flank, each with Dominions + Blessed Bolts and Melta BSS + Simulacra/Cherubim. I like the odds that someone in one of those Rhinos delivers an early game changer. 223 points each for the combo is expensive, but they cant be ignored and will draw fire from the Exos, and they might just break something shiny. Now that Exos have both anti tank and anti infantry, they can act as closers for the forward squads.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 18:38:01


Post by: davidgr33n


I use a VH Brigade with a BR Vanguard that is essentially my “Celestian Bomb.”

The Celestian bomb is 30 Celestians with support of:
Imagifier with stoic and warrior (ignores AP-1 and gives +1Str), Indomitable Belief WL trait (+1 Inv Save) and the Book of St Lucius (+3” aura range)

Canoness with Beneficience gives re-rolls of 1s to hit and has a ton of attacks (9A Str5 AP-3 D2 hitting on 2s) and can also Heroic Intervention

Missionary giving +1A

Remember that according to the BRB all models are assumed to have a generic CC weapon of Str user and AP0, so adding all buffs and Celestian stats with the Superior using a free chainsword we get for 30 Celestians:

126A at Str4 AP-1 which can then be buffed by Stratagems and a 3+/5++ saves

To my bomb I also add a unit of 9 Repentias to give them 4A at Str8 AP-4 and 5++/5+++ each

The beauty of Celestians is that they will still shoot all their weapons at BS3 with reroll all misses, so it’s not like they’re just a melee threat. I add cheap Stormbolters and sometimes combiplasmas to my Celestians.

The Imagifier and Canoness can’t be picked off by snipers due to the Bodyguard rule.

So this setup can cost between 430 to 550 points so it’s not cheap but you’d likely be paying for these units any way, so it’s one way of putting it all together for max punch power.

I just used this setup this past weekend and I can say it’s great for middle board control with Exos in the back and all my other Zephyrim and Seraphim and basic Sisters causing problems elsewhere.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/24 20:21:58


Post by: Orlanth


 Melissia wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
Isn't that an excuse for another Immo, and a good squad to put in one.
The choice is between 168 points for a dominion squad and flamer immolator, or 183 points for a Rhino and two of said dominion squads.

The extra price gives you twice the blessed bolter firepower, instead of relying on the Immolator's firepower, and twice hte bodies. But what works for you depends on your list. Immolators are expensive as feth for what they deliver tho.


Ok. Thanks for that. Due to the underpants-on-head backward way the codex points system is presented I was yet to cost out the Immolator. I did total up the Exorcist though and am not sure. They seem expensive to me, and while powerful they wont stay on the table long and I think I need three or go home.
Anyone's thoughts on this?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 00:03:44


Post by: Melissia


They're definitely pricey. But the problem is Sisters have nothing to replace them. They are all we have for long-ranged anti-tank shooting.

If you want to sacrifice some high-end anti-tank firepower, you can always go with the cheaper variant, which is 30 points cheaper per exorcist for what basically amounts to incendiary rockets (48" Heavy 3d6, S5, AP-1, D1 for 140 points) instead of anti-tank (48" Heavy 3d3, S8, AP-3, D6 for 170 points) rockets.

Still have some heavy mid-strength firepower to pour down-range, but you'll be a lot more reliant on melta weaponry if you do that.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 00:52:19


Post by: dracpanzer


 Orlanth wrote:
I did total up the Exorcist though and am not sure. They seem expensive to me, and while powerful they wont stay on the table long and I think I need three or go home.
Anyone's thoughts on this?


VH Exorcists are probably the best unit in the Codex. Strat lets you ignore negative hit modifiers with one a turn (Alaitoc flyer players will love you...) They can ignore a lot of current SM meta AP and with MD to help ensure your damage rolls make your opponents cry. You will love them. Bring three.

Going first, enjoy the wondrous destructive melody.. Going second, pop cover strat and ignore a bunch of AP, then enjoy the wondrous destructive melody. Exorcists are worth the points for sure.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 04:41:17


Post by: Oberron


So fun fact triumph's petals of the bloody rose work on mortifiers. As well as a couple of stratagems. Embodied prophecy, moment of grace, holy rage (biggest useful one aside from double attacks imo), suffer not the witch, judgement of the faithful. May not be the greatest news but something that opens up more options


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 07:03:47


Post by: Orlanth


 Melissia wrote:
They're definitely pricey. But the problem is Sisters have nothing to replace them. They are all we have for long-ranged anti-tank shooting.

If you want to sacrifice some high-end anti-tank firepower, you can always go with the cheaper variant, which is 30 points cheaper per exorcist for what basically amounts to incendiary rockets (48" Heavy 3d6, S5, AP-1, D1 for 140 points) instead of anti-tank (48" Heavy 3d3, S8, AP-3, D6 for 170 points) rockets.

Still have some heavy mid-strength firepower to pour down-range, but you'll be a lot more reliant on melta weaponry if you do that.


I dislike GW's formulaic approach to points values, they should take a holistic approach and work down instead. The supposed anti-tank option is a far better buy. Heavy 3d6 is nice, but frankly Heavy 3d3 is pretty damn good anti infantry. The only thing I will say for the incendiary rockets is that they amount to a fairly decent anti tank weapon if shooting a tank, wheras the anti tank rockets are total overkill unless fired at a super heavy or a titan. 1d4chan reported that the upgraded Exorcist has the capability to one shot a warhound without extreme dice rolls.
I am looking at the anti-tank missiles are Terminator-B-Gone, or for wasting squads of walkers. Any super heavy out there would priority kill the Exorcist before the Exorcist could return the disfavour. 48" range is escapable for a well placed super heavy.

All in all I realluy have no choice but to take multiple Exorcists. I have my prefered alternates worked out.



I like the multiple missiles, it lets me be less picky about what a launcher is on a given day.



I also like the idea of a mobilep latyform variant. I thin k it would go nicely with my 100% footslogger sisters plus penitents.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 07:53:51


Post by: tneva82


 Orlanth wrote:

I dislike GW's formulaic approach to points values, they should take a holistic approach and work down instead. The supposed anti-tank option is a far better buy. Heavy 3d6 is nice, but frankly Heavy 3d3 is pretty damn good anti infantry. The only thing I will say for the incendiary rockets is that they amount to a fairly decent anti tank weapon if shooting a tank, wheras the anti tank rockets are total overkill unless fired at a super heavy or a titan. 1d4chan reported that the upgraded Exorcist has the capability to one shot a warhound without extreme dice rolls.
I am looking at the anti-tank missiles are Terminator-B-Gone, or for wasting squads of walkers. Any super heavy out there would priority kill the Exorcist before the Exorcist could return the disfavour. 48" range is escapable for a well placed super heavy.


5.8 wounds vs leman russ is hardly overkill. 1.555 wounds vs leman russ is hardly fairly decent.

48" reachesh pretty much anywhere on board by well placed exorcist. LOS is more of issue but if you can't see super heavy neither can he see you


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 13:36:11


Post by: alextroy


And with an Exorcist, 5.8 average wounds has a very high degree of variability. You get there via multiple d6 damage rolls, which can easily one-shot a Leman Russ if lucky. And that is before a Miracle Dice gets added to the equation.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 13:40:51


Post by: davidgr33n


tneva82 wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:

I dislike GW's formulaic approach to points values, they should take a holistic approach and work down instead. The supposed anti-tank option is a far better buy. Heavy 3d6 is nice, but frankly Heavy 3d3 is pretty damn good anti infantry. The only thing I will say for the incendiary rockets is that they amount to a fairly decent anti tank weapon if shooting a tank, wheras the anti tank rockets are total overkill unless fired at a super heavy or a titan. 1d4chan reported that the upgraded Exorcist has the capability to one shot a warhound without extreme dice rolls.
I am looking at the anti-tank missiles are Terminator-B-Gone, or for wasting squads of walkers. Any super heavy out there would priority kill the Exorcist before the Exorcist could return the disfavour. 48" range is escapable for a well placed super heavy.


5.8 wounds vs leman russ is hardly overkill. 1.555 wounds vs leman russ is hardly fairly decent.

48" reachesh pretty much anywhere on board by well placed exorcist. LOS is more of issue but if you can't see super heavy neither can he see you


He’s obviously NOT a math hammer guy


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 13:41:46


Post by: Melissia


Yeah, it's very variable. Thus the need for three of them.

At least exorcists are objectively better firepower than before, though I wish they didn't get their points toned up so high.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 13:51:07


Post by: tneva82


 alextroy wrote:
And with an Exorcist, 5.8 average wounds has a very high degree of variability. You get there via multiple d6 damage rolls, which can easily one-shot a Leman Russ if lucky. And that is before a Miracle Dice gets added to the equation.


True. Though at least with 3d3 shot worst of variance goes down. One of my armies is necrons and THAT is high variance shooting...

Though at least necron one wounds on 3+ vs russ unlike sister 4+. But still d6 shots at d6 damage=3 dda is pretty much norm.

(btw 5.14 or so is average damage for dda vs russ capping out over 12 damage in one go. 11.52% odds of one shotting. Of course exorcist is bit different but ball park is probably around same).

Miracle dice of course helps but not something you can quarantee to get high one's and only 1 dice per turn for the 3 exorcist anyway. and 6's I like saving for inv saves sometimes anyway


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 14:32:01


Post by: Taikishi


Exorcist vs Russ, no stratagems, no cover, no buffs.

Median 5.825 damage
Mode: 0 damage (1606 / 10000)
StDev: 4.655

1st deviation: 2-10 damage (63.01%)
2nd deviation: 0-15 damage (96.12%)
Odds of doing 16+ damage: 3.88%, or ~1:26
Odds of 20+ damage (4 deviations): 0.97%, or about 1:103
Odds of 0 damage: 16.06%, or ~1:6
Max probable damage: 30 -- 0.01%, or 1:10,000


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 16:54:28


Post by: Orlanth


Not everything is a Russ.

However when you roll multiple D6 for damage and number of shots you will get a wide range of outcome. However that is part of the game.

To me the anti-tank missiles are a neat way to eliminate Terminator squads or equivalent. Something AP0 bolters might struggle with.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 18:25:45


Post by: Taikishi


Not everything is a Russ, but an Exorcist still isn't overkill on your average tank/MC.

Assumed average tank/MC defenses: T7, 3+ save

Median: 8.054 damage
Mode: 6 (849 / 10,000)
StDev: 5.331
1st deviation: 3-13 damage (68.91%)
2nd deviation: 0-18 damage (96.13%)
Odds of 19+ damage: 3.87%, or ~1:26
Odds of 25+ damage (4th deviation): 0.51%, or ~1:196
Odds of 0 damage: 7.38%, or ~1:14
Max probable damage: 33 -- 0.01%

A median damage if 8 isn't really overkill. It doesn't even kill most tanks. These numbers don't change if you assume an average toughness of 6 with a 3+ save.

As for conflagration rockets being used against tanks, the numbers are far worse.

Against anything with T6-9, 3+
Median: 1.5606 damage
Mode: 1 (3300 / 10000)
StDev:1.229

1st deviation: 1-2 damage (58.84%)
2nd deviation: 0-4 damage (98.16%)
Odds of 5+ damage: 1.84%, or ~1:54
Odds of 0 damage: 20.52%, or ~1:5
Maximum probable damage: 8 -- 0.01%


Conflagration rockets aren't killing any vehicles except maybe sentinels, Penitent Engines, War Walkers, and Mortifiers, and even then the odds are fairly low.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 18:35:38


Post by: Orlanth


Ok, thanks for that.

Can you confirm which ammo to use against Tyranid Warriors and Terminators please.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 19:47:25


Post by: Grundz


Taikishi wrote:
Not everything is a Russ, but an Exorcist still isn't overkill on your average tank/MC.

Assumed average tank/MC defenses: T7, 3+ save

Median: 8.054 damage


I don't think i've fired an exorcist once yet and done less than 10 damage that wasn't a complete whiff

miracle dice making your first wound that gets through a 5 or 6 is a hell of a thing


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 20:20:33


Post by: Taikishi


None of my data includes Miracle Dice, re-rolls, or stratagems (except where the stratagem is required in comparison, such as Holy Trinity). It's just easier to sim that way since I have no way of knowing what my miracle dice pool might be both in terms of quantity and results.



Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 20:29:38


Post by: Melissia


Yeah, you shouldn't expect random posters to do that kind of super-complex simulation.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 20:31:53


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 Grundz wrote:
Taikishi wrote:
Not everything is a Russ, but an Exorcist still isn't overkill on your average tank/MC.

Assumed average tank/MC defenses: T7, 3+ save

Median: 8.054 damage


I don't think i've fired an exorcist once yet and done less than 10 damage that wasn't a complete whiff

miracle dice making your first wound that gets through a 5 or 6 is a hell of a thing


My three exorcists usually knock down 1-2 vehicle targets per turn, and it's usually along the lines of one does okay and frags an target, one uses a miracle dice to get a good result, and one fails miserably, usually trying to finish off the one of the other one's targets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, you shouldn't expect random posters to do that kind of super-complex simulation.


I could do it, but my MATLAB license is currently expired and I need to renew it. How existentially important is it to know?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 20:47:36


Post by: tneva82


 Grundz wrote:
Taikishi wrote:
Not everything is a Russ, but an Exorcist still isn't overkill on your average tank/MC.

Assumed average tank/MC defenses: T7, 3+ save

Median: 8.054 damage


I don't think i've fired an exorcist once yet and done less than 10 damage that wasn't a complete whiff

miracle dice making your first wound that gets through a 5 or 6 is a hell of a thing


Well let's see. Today:

First round. First exorcist caused 4 wounds. I got 4 hits, 2 wounds, he saved 1(target was russ). Didn't have higher than 4 on MD(well I only had 2 MD anyway being first turn). Other exorcist whiffed utterly.
Round 2. Now both tanks are degraded to hit on 4+. Other tank caused 4 wounds to demolisher(again 4 highest MD which was used to secure one wound), other whiffed completely again.

Round 3. Well first exorcist was dead, other whiffed third time in row.

Round 4. Second exorcist finally caused 4 damage. On flip side after opponents turn that thing was STILL alive having spent 4 turns in face of 2 catachan leman russ with lascannon hull weapon and was still alive with 3 wounds.

Wounding on 4+ isn't that easy. Luckily I didn't need that much. After 3 turns I had only taken down one russ and 1 warglaive(2 mortifiers got seriously pissed off by being charged by 1) and caused some damage to demolisher. But I had weathered without too much damage and then was able to get into combat with stuff. Celestine in particular was very useful in this.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 20:50:56


Post by: Melissia


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
How existentially important is it to know?
Not enough to pay you, so... you know, not that important


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 20:54:58


Post by: Grundz


tneva82 wrote:

Well let's see. Today:

First round. First exorcist caused 4 wounds. I got 4 hits, 2 wounds, he saved 1(target was russ). Didn't have higher than 4 on MD(well I only had 2 MD anyway being first turn). Other exorcist whiffed utterly.
Round 2. Now both tanks are degraded to hit on 4+. Other tank caused 4 wounds to demolisher(again 4 highest MD which was used to secure one wound), other whiffed completely again.

Round 3. Well first exorcist was dead, other whiffed third time in row.

Round 4. Second exorcist finally caused 4 damage.

Wounding on 4+ isn't that easy. Luckily I didn't need that much. After 3 turns I had only taken down one russ and 1 warglaive(2 mortifiers got seriously pissed off by being charged by 1) and caused some damage to demolisher. But I had weathered without too much damage and then was able to get into combat with stuff. Celestine in particular was very useful in this.


The 4+ to wound can certainly be a problem, I'm "usually" shooting at T7, vs guard I would be saving dice for the turn 2-3 seraphim drop and tie up all the tanks with a long charge+consolidate


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 21:05:36


Post by: tneva82


well I didn't frankly have good dice for ds charges anyway for t2 drop anyway.

But that's all right. I got rid of one russ and he was struggling to keep me from simply getting close and on t3 with celestine being unleashed he suddenly had his hands too full with sisters and on turn 4 I basically degraded 2 of his tanks and tagged 3(Well basilisk should have died but opponent misremembered it to have 12 wounds. I thought 11 but didn't want to press it as game was about wrapped up and indeed this was last turn we played anyway before he threw in towel).

This with somewhat bad dice rolls. Seraphim squad #2 failed to get even one wound to basilisk. 4 shots, hit on 3+, wound on 3+ and nothing

He had serious issue with not having really anything to prevent my sisters from simply marching up field and then have tons of unit in his face. He got locked out of several objectives, I could control them, had total "no go" area for him in center making area denial card for him hopeless(good luck clearing multiple units of VH sisters...) and easy 2 vp's for me.

Casualty wise I was getting rid of his infantry fast but only getting machine rolling so to speak on turn 4 but board control + simply swarming him with too many units for him to prevent carried the day. Turn 5 he would be in combat with every single tank that was still alive which wasn't that many anymore. Celestine was chewing through punisher slow and steady, Corteaz was doing his job and that basilisk wouldn't survive even with extra wound he gained


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 21:41:28


Post by: Taikishi


 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, you shouldn't expect random posters to do that kind of super-complex simulation.


You're right, you shouldn't. Especially when said poster only has Excel to perform these simulations using randbetween functions to simulate d6 rolls and is an unpaid volunteer

Quite honestly, I'm more concerned with dispelling bad information or getting out information to support someone's claim. In this case, those claims were Conflagration rockets are good against tanks (they aren't) and Exorcists overkill tanks (on average, they don't) In order to simulate miracle dice I'd basically have to simulate at least the roll and then put in 90,000-180,000 "if-then" statements on using said miracle die since each column would have to know if the die had already been used or not.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 22:05:38


Post by: Melissia


I would describe them as light anti-tank at best. Conflagration Rockets will help you deal with things like Sentinels down-range in the same way Heavy Bolters would (which makes sense, as they have the same strength and AP of a heavy bolter).


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 22:07:41


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Taikishi wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, you shouldn't expect random posters to do that kind of super-complex simulation.


You're right, you shouldn't. Especially when said poster only has Excel to perform these simulations using randbetween functions to simulate d6 rolls and is an unpaid volunteer

Quite honestly, I'm more concerned with dispelling bad information or getting out information to support someone's claim. In this case, those claims were Conflagration rockets are good against tanks (they aren't) and Exorcists overkill tanks (on average, they don't) In order to simulate miracle dice I'd basically have to simulate at least the roll and then put in 90,000-180,000 "if-then" statements on using said miracle die since each column would have to know if the die had already been used or not.


I'd probably just set the decision be to exclusively use it for the first damage roll that comes up if it's 4 or higher, and ignore it if it isn't. This can be accomplished with a integer that's set to zero in every loop so even though it tries to use the MD result every time it loops through calculating damage, it only applies it the first time.

Melissia wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
How existentially important is it to know?
Not enough to pay you, so... you know, not that important


It's okay, I knew it wasn't existentially important and don't expect a forum to buy me a matlab license to run mathhammer. I'm intending to wait until the department covers the cost, but for now I'm mildly frustrated by my lack of MATLAB.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 22:56:13


Post by: Rogerio134134


Just watched a battle report on YouTube between sisters and tau. The sisters list was very sub optimal with multiple immolators and a distinct lack of troops or imagifiers. Whereas the Tau were slightly better equipped with a riptide with broadsides and drones etc as usual.

I kept wincing as the sisters player forgot the valorous heart rule which gives stuff a 6 plus fnp which would have saved him do many times. Another thing which was massively clear was that imagifiers are clearly key. So many times he was hit by ap2 weapons which would have been hugely neutered by imagifier support.

On the subject of excorcists though they were very good indeed and got plenty of kills.

An interesting game to watch but also painful as the sisters player hardly used any decent stratagems and basically spunkef all his cp on re rolls which is a massive waste I feel.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 23:01:47


Post by: Orlanth


 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, you shouldn't expect random posters to do that kind of super-complex simulation.


It looks like it came from an App.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 23:04:25


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Rogerio134134 wrote:
Just watched a battle report on YouTube between sisters and tau. The sisters list was very sub optimal with multiple immolators and a distinct lack of troops or imagifiers. Whereas the Tau were slightly better equipped with a riptide with broadsides and drones etc as usual.

I kept wincing as the sisters player forgot the valorous heart rule which gives stuff a 6 plus fnp which would have saved him do many times. Another thing which was massively clear was that imagifiers are clearly key. So many times he was hit by ap2 weapons which would have been hugely neutered by imagifier support.

On the subject of excorcists though they were very good indeed and got plenty of kills.

An interesting game to watch but also painful as the sisters player hardly used any decent stratagems and basically spunkef all his cp on re rolls which is a massive waste I feel.


That's basically how I feel if I ever watch battle report on youtube. I don't really ever actually watch them on my own, but one of my friends does so more than he ever plays. I always feel like I or any of the people I know could play better than this, and when I get forwarded ones they're always playing fluffy or some gak.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/25 23:04:50


Post by: Orlanth


Taikishi wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, you shouldn't expect random posters to do that kind of super-complex simulation.


You're right, you shouldn't. Especially when said poster only has Excel to perform these simulations using randbetween functions to simulate d6 rolls and is an unpaid volunteer

Quite honestly, I'm more concerned with dispelling bad information or getting out information to support someone's claim. In this case, those claims were Conflagration rockets are good against tanks (they aren't) and Exorcists overkill tanks (on average, they don't) In order to simulate miracle dice I'd basically have to simulate at least the roll and then put in 90,000-180,000 "if-then" statements on using said miracle die since each column would have to know if the die had already been used or not.


If people ask for advice on threads some people ignore it, some write a line, some write a long fairly complete in depth reply, often taking half an hour or more. I am in the latter category, and dont get paid either.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/26 05:27:53


Post by: tneva82


Rogerio134134 wrote:
Just watched a battle report on YouTube between sisters and tau. The sisters list was very sub optimal with multiple immolators and a distinct lack of troops or imagifiers. Whereas the Tau were slightly better equipped with a riptide with broadsides and drones etc as usual.

I kept wincing as the sisters player forgot the valorous heart rule which gives stuff a 6 plus fnp which would have saved him do many times. Another thing which was massively clear was that imagifiers are clearly key. So many times he was hit by ap2 weapons which would have been hugely neutered by imagifier support.

On the subject of excorcists though they were very good indeed and got plenty of kills.

An interesting game to watch but also painful as the sisters player hardly used any decent stratagems and basically spunkef all his cp on re rolls which is a massive waste I feel.


With imagifier only real gun tau has to worry is riptide ion vs exorcist. Actually tau hard counters then exorcist pretty well. Drones negate exorcist shooting and ion cannon(especially relic one) blows exorcist in no time. But sister infantry hard counters tau army


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/26 11:26:30


Post by: Rogerio134134


What we thinking on strongest sacred rites??

For me it has to be spirit of the martyr. Hugely useful in any situation and considering it works for vehicles is brilliant, potential of a free round of fire from an excorcist. Even for stuff like retributiors and even sisters with meltas it's extremely good.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/26 11:39:00


Post by: tneva82


Hard to tell since I never remember them I have tried selecting twice the spirit and literally never rolled for it.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/26 12:12:01


Post by: Lammia


Rogerio134134 wrote:
What we thinking on strongest sacred rites??

For me it has to be spirit of the martyr. Hugely useful in any situation and considering it works for vehicles is brilliant, potential of a free round of fire from an excorcist. Even for stuff like retributiors and even sisters with meltas it's extremely good.
Without a Brazier of Eternal Flame, I'm firmly in favour of rolling 2 and maybe spending 1CP to get something different if it's really bad


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/26 17:07:28


Post by: Jancoran


Lammia wrote:
Rogerio134134 wrote:
What we thinking on strongest sacred rites??

For me it has to be spirit of the martyr. Hugely useful in any situation and considering it works for vehicles is brilliant, potential of a free round of fire from an excorcist. Even for stuff like retributiors and even sisters with meltas it's extremely good.
Without a Brazier of Eternal Flame, I'm firmly in favour of rolling 2 and maybe spending 1CP to get something different if it's really bad


this is what i do as well


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/26 17:15:36


Post by: dracpanzer


Lammia wrote:
Rogerio134134 wrote:
What we thinking on strongest sacred rites??

For me it has to be spirit of the martyr. Hugely useful in any situation and considering it works for vehicles is brilliant, potential of a free round of fire from an excorcist. Even for stuff like retributiors and even sisters with meltas it's extremely good.
Without a Brazier of Eternal Flame, I'm firmly in favour of rolling 2 and maybe spending 1CP to get something different if it's really bad


Unless I'm playing 1kSons or the new GK's and the like I roll for two and swap one if I have too. Mech VH are doing great for me.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/26 17:26:01


Post by: Melissia


I pretty much always want The Passion, but I play pure BR.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/26 18:07:20


Post by: Oberron


Rogerio134134 wrote:
What we thinking on strongest sacred rites??

For me it has to be spirit of the martyr. Hugely useful in any situation and considering it works for vehicles is brilliant, potential of a free round of fire from an excorcist. Even for stuff like retributiors and even sisters with meltas it's extremely good.


For me it is a really big "it depends"

If the opponent has important powers they need to get of, aegis is really strong.

Divine guidance has been my go to if I'm not making a melee focus list. It's a solid way to boost heavy flamer damage and can even help with blessed bolts.

Hand of emp and light of emp are very meh


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/26 19:43:03


Post by: ERJAK


Rogerio134134 wrote:
What we thinking on strongest sacred rites??

For me it has to be spirit of the martyr. Hugely useful in any situation and considering it works for vehicles is brilliant, potential of a free round of fire from an excorcist. Even for stuff like retributiors and even sisters with meltas it's extremely good.


Hate spirit. End up rolling 5s for bolter sisters and 2s for meltas. The value is too low and too random to be reliable.

The passion and divine guidance are almost always going to be better options because A. You're throwing so many more dice you're much more likely to get meaningful value out of the course of the game and B. You can force it with MD if you really need it.


I also hate rolling because I've rolled doubles into reroll morale EVERY GAME so far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Played a tournament recently, went 2-1 but didn't do so hot on differential scoring for reasons I'll get into in a minute.

List: VH Brigade with 6 min stormbolter BSS, Aura Canoness with the 4++ and book, 3 IPPP drop Seraphim, 2 Stoic imags, 1 with Surplice and a Hospitaller, 2 exorcist, 10 girl ret squad with double cherub. + BR Vanguard with beneficence, brazier IP canoness, Admonition IP canoness, 2 units of 10 Zephyrim with PP sergeant, imagifier with warrior. Not allowed to change relics/WT between games due to TO rules.

Some immediate takeaways: Love VH, double imag is mandatory. 12 CP is not enough, forgot rets could move and shoot with no penalty, still like exos better, even with SoF and Cherubs they feel like they do less damage. Forgot about brazier every time. Hate rolling for SR. 4++ Not really necessary when running exos and deepstrike. I play too slow, especially in deployment.

Game 1 vs Grey Knights:
Rolled terrible SRs, either DG or +3 to deny would have individually been way better.

Standard paladin bomb and friends list. Gave him first turn, lost a handful of rets to SB fire, only 1 unit of his was visible to my stuff. Shot everything in range, left 1 paladin with 1 wound left. He got better Maelstrom cards so he went up in points. His turn lost a bunch of bolter girls but nothing too important, he made his charge with his deepstriking paladins but failed to kill a squad of 5 bolter sisters with 5 paladins and the named GK character, used the one remaining sister to shield an exorcist from consolidate, not that it would have mattered, still had CP for retreat and shoot. Deepstruck 1 Seraphim squad and both zephyrim. Seraphim whiffed, zephyrim+shooting killed 5 paladins. GK strat killed the Zephyrim back. Other zephyrim squad failed their charge.

Game ended bottom of 2, 10-7 in his favor. 6 turn game I think I take pretty easily though.

Game 2 vs Guard.

Tons of vehicles, basikisks, Lemans, chimeras, etc. He goes first and bounces utterly, even the basilisks only manage to do about 8 wounds total. My turn and I massively chunk out his forces on the right flank but am not in a position to deal with his russes. He shoots, mostly bounces except he kills an exorcist and I have to CP it to stop an explosion. My turn zephyrim drop and kill his infantry, Celestine kills a chimera that explodes on her and my 2 BR canoness, who I accidentally leave out in the open to die on his turn. Turn 3 was more of the same with zephyrim getting me 2 points on hold the center.

Game ended bottom of 3, 11-6 my favor. By turn 6 would have tabled him.

Game 3 vs Tau

Riptide+Yhvara with 6 HYMP broadsides and a standard buff suite. No drone shenanigans(which is probably better against SoB tbh, drones hate stormbolters)

He went first, lot of LoS terrain, meant my rets ate most of the fire early, though he did peel 2 BSS squads almost immediately. Only time the 4++ really helped. My turn shot all 6 melta shots with SoF AND reroll 1s AND a 5 on the miracle dice to kill all of 1 broadside.

His turn 2 he mulched all of my screening units and my retributors but I still had both exorcists intact. My turn, each exorcist killed a Big Suit by themselves (15 shots 14 hits, way too many failed saves) Zephyrim and Seraphim dropped, seraphim killed another broadside, Zephyrim made it into his backline by charging from out of LoS. The writing was on the wall from there.

Still only got to bottom 3.

11-7 my favor.

Ended up middle of the pack because I only scored 10ish maelstrom points a game, compared to my opponents getting 20+. This happened mostly because THEY finished.

I have to play faster. VH armies, especially with BR deepstrikes win games turn 3 or 4 and need 5 and 6 to pump the scores. I'm also still in the 'remeber all your rules' stage.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/26 21:45:15


Post by: Lemondish


How long were those rounds? Seems pretty rough to only get through half of each game. I wouldn't sweat the score differential if you're never getting past turn 3.

Sounds like you learned some key lessons. I used to see a lot of players running checklists for themselves in their practice matches. Since you seem pretty good at keeping track of the events in a match in general, especially in hindsight, it might be worth writing out the things you missed and ordering them by phase as a checklist to refer to in any future practice matches.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 00:23:26


Post by: alextroy


 Orlanth wrote:
Ok, thanks for that.

Can you confirm which ammo to use against Tyranid Warriors and Terminators please.
Your question intrigued me Orlanth, so I ran it through a nice little dice roller website and it is Exorcist Missile Launcher against anything that has multiple wounds (the more wounds per model, the better it gets). The link below shows how many wounds you can expect from the Exorcist Missile, Conflagration Missile, and 4 Heavy Bolters.

Versus Tyranid Warriors (3 W 4+ Sv) https://anydice.com/program/1a1da
Versus Terminators (2 W 2+ Sv 5+ Inv) https://anydice.com/program/1a1db

Click on the At Least option to see the chance of getting at least a certain number of wounds in.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 00:28:45


Post by: ERJAK


Lemondish wrote:
How long were those rounds? Seems pretty rough to only get through half of each game. I wouldn't sweat the score differential if you're never getting past turn 3.

Sounds like you learned some key lessons. I used to see a lot of players running checklists for themselves in their practice matches. Since you seem pretty good at keeping track of the events in a match in general, especially in hindsight, it might be worth writing out the things you missed and ordering them by phase as a checklist to refer to in any future practice matches.


2.5 hour rounds. The problem was a combination of taking too long for my own stuff, particularly doing things out of order and having to take back stuff after getting part way through setting up. I also was taking too long to get my units properly organized due to a combination of proxies and not having my storage solution(magnetic bases and movement trays) ready yet. This made deployment take longer than it should.

As for getting the rules down, I go in stages as I learn an army. A few more games and I'll have everything memorized but I wasn't quite there yet at this event. Writing things down to speed up the process isn't a bad idea.

I also drank quite a lot of margaritas at lunch so game 2 was a bit blurry.

Once I get a couple more games in and get enough stuff finished that I can get everything based and magnetized I'll be able to cut probably 35% off of my play time. Add in chess clocks(which are available, though optional) to keep my opponent on task and finishing games should be relatively consistent. I feel like a bit of a heel needing that but this army is sort of geared towards winning turn 4 and running score 5 and 6 so I really need as much time as I can get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grundz wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Well let's see. Today:

First round. First exorcist caused 4 wounds. I got 4 hits, 2 wounds, he saved 1(target was russ). Didn't have higher than 4 on MD(well I only had 2 MD anyway being first turn). Other exorcist whiffed utterly.
Round 2. Now both tanks are degraded to hit on 4+. Other tank caused 4 wounds to demolisher(again 4 highest MD which was used to secure one wound), other whiffed completely again.

Round 3. Well first exorcist was dead, other whiffed third time in row.

Round 4. Second exorcist finally caused 4 damage.

Wounding on 4+ isn't that easy. Luckily I didn't need that much. After 3 turns I had only taken down one russ and 1 warglaive(2 mortifiers got seriously pissed off by being charged by 1) and caused some damage to demolisher. But I had weathered without too much damage and then was able to get into combat with stuff. Celestine in particular was very useful in this.


The 4+ to wound can certainly be a problem, I'm "usually" shooting at T7, vs guard I would be saving dice for the turn 2-3 seraphim drop and tie up all the tanks with a long charge+consolidate


Since the exorcist changes I've been having gangsta luck with exorcists.

Shot a fully degraded exorcist at an Executioner and...executed it. From full. Obviously not typical ougcome but my exocists LOVE me now. The beta codex ones hated me.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 01:30:39


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Rogerio134134 wrote:
What we thinking on strongest sacred rites??

For me it has to be spirit of the martyr. Hugely useful in any situation and considering it works for vehicles is brilliant, potential of a free round of fire from an excorcist. Even for stuff like retributiors and even sisters with meltas it's extremely good.


Definitely not Spirit of the Martyr.

I'd say the only one I'd build deliberately for is the one to shut down psychic powers. yes, it's situational, but it's very effective and powerful when you need it. The other ones offer less benefit than 32 imperial guardsmen and a basilisk.

Theoretically, if you build into it, the +1 Advance/Charge could be fairly decent, particularly if you play strongly into it, but if you're not built to use it then you probably won't go that far with it. If I have a mono list and the situation doesn't call for anything else, I'll probably take Passion or Guidance, they'll have the most actual utility of the set.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ERJAK wrote:


Since the exorcist changes I've been having gangsta luck with exorcists.

Shot a fully degraded exorcist at an Executioner and...executed it. From full. Obviously not typical ougcome but my exocists LOVE me now. The beta codex ones hated me.


I'm the opposite. They hate me now. I used to be routinely counting 4, 5, 6 shots from each in early turns, in part because the first one to come up 1 or 2 got re-rolled by a CP.

Now, well, with 3d3 the impact of a re-roll is negligible and the only dice fixing open to them requires prescience, so when it's 3 or 4 shots downrange you're just screwed..


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 06:35:30


Post by: tneva82


ERJAK wrote:

Riptide+Yhvara with 6 HYMP broadsides and a standard buff suite. No drone shenanigans(which is probably better against SoB tbh, drones hate stormbolters)


Drones hide behind some ruin. I have yet to be able to shoot vs drone ever without either moving like hell or have indirect fire weapon.



I have to play faster. VH armies, especially with BR deepstrikes win games turn 3 or 4 and need 5 and 6 to pump the scores. I'm also still in the 'remeber all your rules' stage.


One thing that helped me is movement trays. Since many sister units aren't rushing to melee that weakness of trays doesn't hurt and all the sisters are generally moving a lot due to short ranges of weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
[
I'm the opposite. They hate me now. I used to be routinely counting 4, 5, 6 shots from each in early turns, in part because the first one to come up 1 or 2 got re-rolled by a CP.

Now, well, with 3d3 the impact of a re-roll is negligible and the only dice fixing open to them requires prescience, so when it's 3 or 4 shots downrange you're just screwed..


Eh so you were great when you are rolling over average before and now screwed when even 1/27 event is same as before average...3 or 4 shots is pretty slim odds. 1/27 for 3 shots.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 10:16:55


Post by: Lemondish


ERJAK wrote:

I also drank quite a lot of margaritas at lunch so game 2 was a bit blurry.


My man lol

Good luck at the next event!


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 10:37:24


Post by: Spoletta


 alextroy wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
Ok, thanks for that.

Can you confirm which ammo to use against Tyranid Warriors and Terminators please.
Your question intrigued me Orlanth, so I ran it through a nice little dice roller website and it is Exorcist Missile Launcher against anything that has multiple wounds (the more wounds per model, the better it gets). The link below shows how many wounds you can expect from the Exorcist Missile, Conflagration Missile, and 4 Heavy Bolters.

Versus Tyranid Warriors (3 W 4+ Sv) https://anydice.com/program/1a1da
Versus Terminators (2 W 2+ Sv 5+ Inv) https://anydice.com/program/1a1db

Click on the At Least option to see the chance of getting at least a certain number of wounds in.


Keep in mind that warriors reduce damage received by 1, and many times they are also under a -1 to hit aura and -1 strenght aura.

The solution would still be the exorcist missile launcher though.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 13:24:00


Post by: alextroy


Twice the attacks simply doesn't make up for d6 damage against multi-wound models. If you aren't shooting line infantry, the EML is your friend.

I remember seeing the stat block for the Conflagration Missiles and thinking, "if this was damage 2 it would be awesome, but at damage 1 it is awful".


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 14:46:20


Post by: deviantduck


Lemondish wrote:
ERJAK wrote:

I also drank quite a lot of margaritas at lunch so game 2 was a bit blurry.


My man lol

Good luck at the next event!
This was the only part I picked up on. Results be damned. You already won.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 14:56:21


Post by: Grundz


tneva82 wrote:

With imagifier only real gun tau has to worry is riptide ion vs exorcist. Actually tau hard counters then exorcist pretty well. Drones negate exorcist shooting and ion cannon(especially relic one) blows exorcist in no time. But sister infantry hard counters tau army


sisters dont gunline well, you'd have to drop your seraphim squads to mass clear drones

marines were nerfed today, you must progress through your doctrines now, so this may bode well for non-valorous heart sisters, since you dont need to lean on that ap-2 ignore as hard


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 15:26:15


Post by: tneva82


Or not worry about riptides. Especially good with pure infantry VH sisters. Burstcannon riptide is like "whatever" and without exorcists the ion cannon one doesn't have good targets either. Though exorcist at least are good distraction carnifex seeing exorcist isn't that useful vs tau anyway.

Take control of board, get rid of any crisis suits and firewarriors and don't fret too much about riptides. They aren't that big threat for points vs VH infantry anwyay


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 18:27:59


Post by: ERJAK


 Grundz wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

With imagifier only real gun tau has to worry is riptide ion vs exorcist. Actually tau hard counters then exorcist pretty well. Drones negate exorcist shooting and ion cannon(especially relic one) blows exorcist in no time. But sister infantry hard counters tau army


sisters dont gunline well, you'd have to drop your seraphim squads to mass clear drones

marines were nerfed today, you must progress through your doctrines now, so this may bode well for non-valorous heart sisters, since you dont need to lean on that ap-2 ignore as hard


I would actually argue the opposite, this pushes VH EVEN HARDER because less of SM's guns will be able ro push past the minus 2 and A LOT of them are suddenly bouncing even without stoic. Add on to that that Aggressors are nowhere near as good as centurion as killing our infantry(no ignores cover) and VH are even stronger than they were.

Not that other tactics didn't benefit also but I don't think any of them made out as well as VH did.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 18:33:24


Post by: tneva82


What ignore cover was removed from centurions? Not familiar with all the ignore cover things marines have. I know imperial fists ignore but that'stheir chapter bonus which wasn't untouched today(indeed IF didn't get updated at all today)


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 19:15:16


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


tneva82 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
[
I'm the opposite. They hate me now. I used to be routinely counting 4, 5, 6 shots from each in early turns, in part because the first one to come up 1 or 2 got re-rolled by a CP.

Now, well, with 3d3 the impact of a re-roll is negligible and the only dice fixing open to them requires prescience, so when it's 3 or 4 shots downrange you're just screwed..


Eh so you were great when you are rolling over average before and now screwed when even 1/27 event is same as before average...3 or 4 shots is pretty slim odds. 1/27 for 3 shots.


I also cared less when it was poor. At 125 points, I didn't really care that much and getting a good roll was very good. At 170 points I need it to do more. The battery has more required of it, since I have one less full melta seraphim squad or dominions squad, or one less transport for my infantry, or almost an entire CP battalion since Scions are now 35 points.

This is just my thing. I always felt that with CP for re-rolls, I could keep the battery pretty well overperforming, and at 125 they were marginally undercosted for even mundane performance. I like this. At 170, they're actually reasonably costed for average performance and it's nigh-on-impossible to get the battery to overperform it's cost.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 19:19:09


Post by: ERJAK


tneva82 wrote:
What ignore cover was removed from centurions? Not familiar with all the ignore cover things marines have. I know imperial fists ignore but that'stheir chapter bonus which wasn't untouched today(indeed IF didn't get updated at all today)


It wasn't removed, their delivery system was, which makes assault cents basically DOA.(It's their sergeants wargear just fyi)

Aggressors can still infiltrate, but THEY don't get ignores cover.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 21:43:47


Post by: Grundz


Apparently sisters took 2nd at a GT this weekend.

repentia and zeraphim spam list, using miracle dice to guarantee monster first turn charges


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/27 22:14:48


Post by: davidgr33n


Melee sisters are surprisingly strong. It’s taken me some tweaks with several games but combine Celestians/Repentia and Zephyrim in BR with MD and Hand of the Emperor for mid table control and potent first strikes.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/28 03:26:09


Post by: Orlanth


Spoletta wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
Ok, thanks for that.

Can you confirm which ammo to use against Tyranid Warriors and Terminators please.
Your question intrigued me Orlanth, so I ran it through a nice little dice roller website and it is Exorcist Missile Launcher against anything that has multiple wounds (the more wounds per model, the better it gets). The link below shows how many wounds you can expect from the Exorcist Missile, Conflagration Missile, and 4 Heavy Bolters.

Versus Tyranid Warriors (3 W 4+ Sv) https://anydice.com/program/1a1da
Versus Terminators (2 W 2+ Sv 5+ Inv) https://anydice.com/program/1a1db

Click on the At Least option to see the chance of getting at least a certain number of wounds in.


Keep in mind that warriors reduce damage received by 1, and many times they are also under a -1 to hit aura and -1 strenght aura.

The solution would still be the exorcist missile launcher though.


More so it would seem as D6 damage can afford -1 a fair amount of the time. Its a major defence but not insurmountable.
Thank you for your efforts, you have convinced me. I find the damage ramp quite significant and worth not going cheap on.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/28 04:53:38


Post by: davidgr33n


What’s our best way to eliminate Eliminators?



Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/28 05:16:55


Post by: ERJAK


 davidgr33n wrote:
What’s our best way to eliminate Eliminators?



Post nerf, just ignore them if you've got an imagifier or are VH. They're pretty much irrelevant with -1 immune characters in cover, combined with doctrines only being good for 1 turn. VH could go an entire game without losing a single to wound to them. Put a Surplice on whatever your most valuable character is if you want extra peace of mind, but yeah they shouldn't actually do much to you.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/28 06:06:07


Post by: tneva82


If you aren\t VH or are but it's T1 they are bit more annoying as you can't go into LOS or the -3 shots hurt. And sisters not being long range gun line staying out of LOS forever isn't going to work if you don't want to lose all your buffs.

For VH hide characters out of LOS T1 and then you are safe.

If you really need to kill them exorcists, possibly seraphim depending on screening and celestine can all do the job.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/28 12:50:42


Post by: MacPhail


I can imagine a couple small Celestian squads getting you through that difficult Turn 1, and Divine Intervention as a backup if the dice don't go your way or your opponent brought tons of Eliminators... although that strat on T1 will eat all your Miracle Dice and still maybe not be worth 2CP.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/28 13:56:04


Post by: Grundz


 Orlanth wrote:


Keep in mind that warriors reduce damage received by 1, and many times they are also under a -1 to hit aura and -1 strenght aura.


what gives those?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/28 14:49:48


Post by: MacPhail


I wrote up a report of last week's battle... I took a Valorous Heart brigade and a Bloody Rose battalion against 2000 points of Sautekh Necrons with a Tesseract Vault. I think it ties in with our conversations about Exorcists and Sacred Rites, plus it was a fun, swingy game. Text plus photos plus a little narrative:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/785908.page


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/28 19:48:12


Post by: davidgr33n


 MacPhail wrote:
I can imagine a couple small Celestian squads getting you through that difficult Turn 1, and Divine Intervention as a backup if the dice don't go your way or your opponent brought tons of Eliminators... although that strat on T1 will eat all your Miracle Dice and still maybe not be worth 2CP.


Protecting my Canonesses and Imagifiers is not a problem typically since I do use Celestians as a part of my core list, it’s more so keeping Celestine alive since I don’t bring Geminae. The eliminators also have that “get charged retreat 6” rule” that can be really annoying.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/29 08:00:28


Post by: MacPhail


One thing that I am not in any doubt of is that the Bloody Rose Canoness is an amazing value. She's been so good with relic chainsword and inferno pistol that I had to convert and paint her. There's more pics in the painting contest thread, and I always appreciate feedback.

Spoiler:


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/29 11:19:30


Post by: Grundz


 MacPhail wrote:
One thing that I am not in any doubt of is that the Bloody Rose Canoness is an amazing value. She's been so good with relic chainsword and inferno pistol that I had to convert and paint her. There's more pics in the painting contest thread, and I always appreciate feedback.

Spoiler:


That's the wrong model for a sister with 8 s4 attacks

[Thumb - DBBBuQBUMAAFyYp.jpg]


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/29 13:25:49


Post by: tneva82


I'm looking for suitably impressive chainsword to represent the relic chainsword. Regular one looks just too wimpy.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/29 13:45:00


Post by: frgsinwntr


honestly, i like the Bloody rose cannoness with the relic, the reroll to wound/charge trait, and the brazier of holy fire (you can use it and throw a grenade since it isn't shooting).

braziers can also target units in combat, or characters without need for targeting rules. It says "select a unit within 12" and everything else like this ignores character rules.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/02/29 23:25:26


Post by: Oberron


 frgsinwntr wrote:
honestly, i like the Bloody rose cannoness with the relic, the reroll to wound/charge trait, and the brazier of holy fire (you can use it and throw a grenade since it isn't shooting).

braziers can also target units in combat, or characters without need for targeting rules. It says "select a unit within 12" and everything else like this ignores character rules.


Good for over watch too. Played a game as sacred rose with the relic brazier it did some work


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/01 07:16:46


Post by: Jancoran


Here comes another one, this time against Raven Guard.  Complete with pics and battle report!!!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/185402052000929/permalink/662266237647839/




Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/01 15:25:42


Post by: davidgr33n


 Jancoran wrote:
Here comes another one, this time against Raven Guard.  Complete with pics and battle report!!!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/185402052000929/permalink/662266237647839/




Awesome batrep and congrats on the win.

We’re his Invictors able to get into your lines or did you kill them first? Also, epic charge by Celestine. I imagine 18” move and advance followed by a 12” charge to get into his Eliminators.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/01 15:36:52


Post by: Grundz


 frgsinwntr wrote:

braziers can also target units in combat, or characters without need for targeting rules. It says "select a unit within 12" and everything else like this ignores character rules.


am I missing something that they only trigger when firing overwatch, which wouldn't be against units in combat or typically characters


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/01 16:47:18


Post by: Orlanth


 Grundz wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:


Keep in mind that warriors reduce damage received by 1, and many times they are also under a -1 to hit aura and -1 strenght aura.


what gives those?


I dont know, you have messed up the quote function. I didnt write that.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/01 17:11:03


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


 Grundz wrote:
 frgsinwntr wrote:

braziers can also target units in combat, or characters without need for targeting rules. It says "select a unit within 12" and everything else like this ignores character rules.


am I missing something that they only trigger when firing overwatch, which wouldn't be against units in combat or typically characters


"[...] when firing Overwatch or chosen to shoot with [...]"

They aren't just for Overwatch only.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/01 17:15:38


Post by: Melissia


Yeah, be careful when you read that.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/01 18:07:45


Post by: Jancoran


 davidgr33n wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
Here comes another one, this time against Raven Guard.  Complete with pics and battle report!!!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/185402052000929/permalink/662266237647839/




Awesome batrep and congrats on the win.

We’re his Invictors able to get into your lines or did you kill them first? Also, epic charge by Celestine. I imagine 18” move and advance followed by a 12” charge to get into his Eliminators.


Well thanks! Yes his Invictors slammed into some Argent Shroud, through a gap in the left flank building (which they weathered) and then when they retreated he chased down my excorcist, twice. But it was degraded and didnt kill it. Siege drills finally managed to make a 10.5 inch charge into it and kill one really late in the game.

Yes, 18" advance as it says and the charge was about 9.5 inches for celestine. Twas goood times!!!! She then ganked the two Thunderfires eventual and a third Elininator squad. She never died which was cool. Scored me the bonus point all day long.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/01 20:40:55


Post by: Incognito15


How is everyone converting or getting Power Mauls?

I dont have any good ideas.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/01 20:52:50


Post by: alextroy


That's a good question. What are people doing outside of the one in the Retributor Squad box?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/01 21:47:50


Post by: Oberron


I haven't really felt to much need for powermauls. But I try to stay consistent withave my superiors like if I don't use any power swords I'll let my opponent know the power swords are power mauls


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/02 04:50:21


Post by: Orlanth


Power Mauls.

1. Chaos Warrior maces straight up work.

2. Take a Simulacrum Imperialis standard pole you are not using, cut it down and use a mace topper from any of many fantasy kits

I am not too bothered though. The Maul is superior but doesnt make much difference. few characters can have it and the only one who has any close combat weight who can have the maul is the Celestian Sister Superior. It would be nice to have on a Zephyrim or Canoness.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/02 12:53:45


Post by: Grundz


 Matt.Kingsley wrote:


"[...] when firing Overwatch or chosen to shoot with [...]"

They aren't just for Overwatch only.


I was under the impression you needed a valid target in order to be chosen to shoot with, like charging, but I'd have to poke at the rules


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/02 12:56:36


Post by: Melissia


Incognito15 wrote:
How is everyone converting or getting Power Mauls?

I dont have any good ideas.
I've been planning on using chainswords and greenstuff over the teeth to make them look like big clubs, and then when I get to painting give htem a lightning effect somehow idk. But I don't know yet, I haven't properly converted yet...


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/02 13:53:33


Post by: Asmodai


Incognito15 wrote:
How is everyone converting or getting Power Mauls?

I dont have any good ideas.


Not everyone will be running them - so look for a Sisters player running barebones squads and trade for them.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/02 15:11:22


Post by: deviantduck


I like the one on the palatine enforcer in necromunda.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/02 17:42:51


Post by: MacPhail


Are power mauls Order dependent, or do they have value outside of Bloody Rose? I've always liked the ones on the Black Knights sprue, although they may not scale well.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/02 17:48:27


Post by: skycapt44


Power mauls, look at mechanicus, they have mauls in their boxes and lots of bits for sale online.

That relic chain sword needs to reflect it's power. I'm thinking of a darth maul style with double sided chain blades.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/02 18:07:57


Post by: Melissia


 MacPhail wrote:
Are power mauls Order dependent, or do they have value outside of Bloody Rose?
Power Mauls are good for any order on Celestian superiors, but they're definitely much better on BR with the AP-1. The thing is, it's most liekly that BR is going to have the setup to be able to use an axe wielding superior best, since for the axe you need the imagifier nearby to make it S5. But Mauls you don't have to have that, they're always S5.

Either way, BR will make better use of either of them.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/02 19:03:23


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


skycapt44 wrote:Power mauls, look at mechanicus, they have mauls in their boxes and lots of bits for sale online.

That relic chain sword needs to reflect it's power. I'm thinking of a darth maul style with double sided chain blades.


No offense intended, but that's stupid. The 2-bladed sword concept is absurd, silly, and impractical looking.


I've got a GK greatsword on one of my canonii, and a axe on another one. I'll probably eventually make a new one with a 2-handed sword either taken from a repentia or from another eviscerator wielding model.

Incognito15 wrote:How is everyone converting or getting Power Mauls?

I dont have any good ideas.


I have axes on some of my sisters [], generally made by taking SM Power Axes and cutting off the blade of the power sword and gluing their axe haft where it used to be. Should work for mauls too.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/02 19:15:15


Post by: Orlanth


 Melissia wrote:
Incognito15 wrote:
How is everyone converting or getting Power Mauls?

I dont have any good ideas.
I've been planning on using chainswords and greenstuff over the teeth to make them look like big clubs, and then when I get to painting give htem a lightning effect somehow idk. But I don't know yet, I haven't properly converted yet...


I dont like this idea, maybe it is how you worded it. I would like to see it to know more, but I dont see how you can convert one to the other. Are you looking to make power paddles to beat people with?

Found this though



Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/02 19:59:50


Post by: Melissia


I actually had an idea on how to make a blessed weapon that looked cool when a friend of mine did it.

Take the imagifier mini, lop off part of the staff above the hand, and put the blade end of a power sword on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
Just got permission to post the image of what I meant.

He's a great kitbasher.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/03 00:19:07


Post by: Orlanth


 Orlanth wrote:
Power Mauls.

2. Take a Simulacrum Imperialis standard pole you are not using, cut it down and use a mace topper from any of many fantasy kits



So am I.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/03 03:57:39


Post by: Jancoran


 alextroy wrote:
That's a good question. What are people doing outside of the one in the Retributor Squad box?


I own several of the original ones w mauls


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I traded a fellow. Rather good deal. Ended up with a Winged Chaplain and Judith, in exchange for just Coteaz.

So I am very interested in the stories of people who are rocking Martyr'd lady. Does she just babysit the firebase? or is there more to her. Does she interact better with other units or is she a solo torpedo kinda like Cel;estine can be. She seems like she much prefers to be 4 inches away from as many sisters as possible and buff, But maybe theres another trick I haven't yet seen.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/03 12:54:05


Post by: Lemondish


 Jancoran wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
That's a good question. What are people doing outside of the one in the Retributor Squad box?


I own several of the original ones w mauls


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I traded a fellow. Rather good deal. Ended up with a Winged Chaplain and Judith, in exchange for just Coteaz.

So I am very interested in the stories of people who are rocking Martyr'd lady. Does she just babysit the firebase? or is there more to her. Does she interact better with other units or is she a solo torpedo kinda like Cel;estine can be. She seems like she much prefers to be 4 inches away from as many sisters as possible and buff, But maybe theres another trick I haven't yet seen.


I'm not Martyred Lady myself, preferring the pure carnage of Bloody Rose, or the MD power of Ebon Chalice, but I have seen some people mention that they use her exactly as they would a jump pack Canoness.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/03 16:37:10


Post by: skycapt44


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
skycapt44 wrote:Power mauls, look at mechanicus, they have mauls in their boxes and lots of bits for sale online.

That relic chain sword needs to reflect it's power. I'm thinking of a darth maul style with double sided chain blades.


No offense intended, but that's stupid. The 2-bladed sword concept is absurd, silly, and impractical looking.


I've got a GK greatsword on one of my canonii, and a axe on another one. I'll probably eventually make a new one with a 2-handed sword either taken from a repentia or from another eviscerator wielding model.

Incognito15 wrote:How is everyone converting or getting Power Mauls?

I dont have any good ideas.


I have axes on some of my sisters [], generally made by taking SM Power Axes and cutting off the blade of the power sword and gluing their axe haft where it used to be. Should work for mauls too.


Haha thanks, I love how people can slide the phrase " No offense" and then just carry on with, "that's stupid, absurd, silly and impractical looking." 40k, in general, is loaded with silly impractical and odd looking things. To each their own I suppose. I guess I'll have to see how it turns out. If it does in fact look that bad I will adjust but at least it was an idea to share albeit, in your opinion, a stupid one.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/03 17:15:57


Post by: Jancoran


skycapt44 wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
skycapt44 wrote:Power mauls, look at mechanicus, they have mauls in their boxes and lots of bits for sale online.

That relic chain sword needs to reflect it's power. I'm thinking of a darth maul style with double sided chain blades.


No offense intended, but that's stupid. The 2-bladed sword concept is absurd, silly, and impractical looking.


I've got a GK greatsword on one of my canonii, and a axe on another one. I'll probably eventually make a new one with a 2-handed sword either taken from a repentia or from another eviscerator wielding model.

Incognito15 wrote:How is everyone converting or getting Power Mauls?

I dont have any good ideas.


I have axes on some of my sisters [], generally made by taking SM Power Axes and cutting off the blade of the power sword and gluing their axe haft where it used to be. Should work for mauls too.


Haha thanks, I love how people can slide the phrase " No offense" and then just carry on with, "that's stupid, absurd, silly and impractical looking." 40k, in general, is loaded with silly impractical and odd looking things. To each their own I suppose. I guess I'll have to see how it turns out. If it does in fact look that bad I will adjust but at least it was an idea to share albeit, in your opinion, a stupid one.


I for one think the sith lord style of lightsaber was both impractical and awesome. So go for it. Its the 41st millinium.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/03 18:06:09


Post by: Oberron


 Jancoran wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I traded a fellow. Rather good deal. Ended up with a Winged Chaplain and Judith, in exchange for just Coteaz.

So I am very interested in the stories of people who are rocking Martyr'd lady. Does she just babysit the firebase? or is there more to her. Does she interact better with other units or is she a solo torpedo kinda like Cel;estine can be. She seems like she much prefers to be 4 inches away from as many sisters as possible and buff, But maybe theres another trick I haven't yet seen.


I feel there is more to her. I have a list that plans to use her with three max squads of inferno pistol seraphim for high mobile high durability anti vehicle. She buffs the squads and protects them from infantry with her double heavy flames and providing a 4++ and the squads protects her(don't have a lot of snipers in my local meta).

Planning on Celestine doing the same but three max zepahrim squads (bloody rose for them)


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/03 21:43:38


Post by: tneva82


Oberron wrote:
I feel there is more to her. I have a list that plans to use her with three max squads of inferno pistol seraphim for high mobile high durability anti vehicle. She buffs the squads and protects them from infantry with her double heavy flames and providing a 4++ and the squads protects her(don't have a lot of snipers in my local meta).

Planning on Celestine doing the same but three max zepahrim squads (bloody rose for them)


Yeah something like that would be my plan were I to play martyred lady. As it is I don't think she's worth 110 CP and 1CP to field her just for her and the inv buff eventhough that buff isn't order locked :-/


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/04 03:48:45


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Jancoran wrote:
skycapt44 wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
skycapt44 wrote:Power mauls, look at mechanicus, they have mauls in their boxes and lots of bits for sale online.

That relic chain sword needs to reflect it's power. I'm thinking of a darth maul style with double sided chain blades.


No offense intended, but that's stupid. The 2-bladed sword concept is absurd, silly, and impractical looking.


I've got a GK greatsword on one of my canonii, and a axe on another one. I'll probably eventually make a new one with a 2-handed sword either taken from a repentia or from another eviscerator wielding model.

Incognito15 wrote:How is everyone converting or getting Power Mauls?

I dont have any good ideas.


I have axes on some of my sisters [], generally made by taking SM Power Axes and cutting off the blade of the power sword and gluing their axe haft where it used to be. Should work for mauls too.


Haha thanks, I love how people can slide the phrase " No offense" and then just carry on with, "that's stupid, absurd, silly and impractical looking." 40k, in general, is loaded with silly impractical and odd looking things. To each their own I suppose. I guess I'll have to see how it turns out. If it does in fact look that bad I will adjust but at least it was an idea to share albeit, in your opinion, a stupid one.


I for one think the sith lord style of lightsaber was both impractical and awesome. So go for it. Its the 41st millinium.


Only Maul had one, I think. Dooku & Vader had regular blades, ventress had 2, and palpatine just zapped people [but also had a regular one]

I think that those weapons look really weird and can't imagine how one would wield it or how it would benefit someone to have two blades like that. It's obviously inspired by a staff, but with the hands held close together it's just wierd.

skycapt44 wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
skycapt44 wrote:Power mauls, look at mechanicus, they have mauls in their boxes and lots of bits for sale online.

That relic chain sword needs to reflect it's power. I'm thinking of a darth maul style with double sided chain blades.


No offense intended, but that's stupid. The 2-bladed sword concept is absurd, silly, and impractical looking.


I've got a GK greatsword on one of my canonii, and a axe on another one. I'll probably eventually make a new one with a 2-handed sword either taken from a repentia or from another eviscerator wielding model.

Incognito15 wrote:How is everyone converting or getting Power Mauls?

I dont have any good ideas.


I have axes on some of my sisters [], generally made by taking SM Power Axes and cutting off the blade of the power sword and gluing their axe haft where it used to be. Should work for mauls too.


Haha thanks, I love how people can slide the phrase " No offense" and then just carry on with, "that's stupid, absurd, silly and impractical looking." 40k, in general, is loaded with silly impractical and odd looking things. To each their own I suppose. I guess I'll have to see how it turns out. If it does in fact look that bad I will adjust but at least it was an idea to share albeit, in your opinion, a stupid one.


I mean, it's more of a platitude than an earnest desire to not cause offense. "No offense" is basically just saying "I'm going to insult you now."


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/04 06:01:42


Post by: MacPhail


 Jancoran wrote:
skycapt44 wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
skycapt44 wrote:Power mauls, look at mechanicus, they have mauls in their boxes and lots of bits for sale online.

That relic chain sword needs to reflect it's power. I'm thinking of a darth maul style with double sided chain blades.


No offense intended, but that's stupid. The 2-bladed sword concept is absurd, silly, and impractical looking.


Haha thanks, I love how people can slide the phrase " No offense" and then just carry on with, "that's stupid, absurd, silly and impractical looking." 40k, in general, is loaded with silly impractical and odd looking things. To each their own I suppose. I guess I'll have to see how it turns out. If it does in fact look that bad I will adjust but at least it was an idea to share albeit, in your opinion, a stupid one.


I for one think the sith lord style of lightsaber was both impractical and awesome. So go for it. Its the 41st millinium.


I made one once, back when Eviscerators used to be a Sisters thing.
Spoiler:


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/04 14:31:49


Post by: skycapt44


That looks pretty good actually! Maybe even a little longer blades! It would represent the number of attacks the weapon yields. Go straight up Star Wars Kid up in there! Now we're talking...See Lord Katherine, and no offense, but you haven't a clue what you're talking about.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/04 15:30:47


Post by: Porphyrius


Here’s a question: how much melta is enough? I’m thinking of an all infantry list (I.e. no Exorcists) and I’m wondering how to kit out my retributors. I’m planning on a brigade and vanguard detachment, with sisters units with 2 meltas and 3x5 seraphim with inferno pistols. Should I have 3 squads of retributors with multi meltas as well? Or mix it up a bit with some heavy bolters and/or flamers?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/04 15:38:15


Post by: generalchaos34


skycapt44 wrote:
That looks pretty good actually! Maybe even a little longer blades! It would represent the number of attacks the weapon yields. Go straight up Star Wars Kid up in there! Now we're talking...See Lord Katherine, and no offense, but you haven't a clue what you're talking about.


While rule of cool is definitely a thing and saying no offense....really tells me you plan to offend (so lets all play nice please)

Now what I really want to talk about.....

What experiences has anyone had with Order of Our Martyred Lady on the tabletop? I have not had a chance to try the army out yet so I am looking to see what others are having encountered before I give up and just run undercover Valorous Heart.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/04 15:55:34


Post by: tneva82


 Porphyrius wrote:
Here’s a question: how much melta is enough? I’m thinking of an all infantry list (I.e. no Exorcists) and I’m wondering how to kit out my retributors. I’m planning on a brigade and vanguard detachment, with sisters units with 2 meltas and 3x5 seraphim with inferno pistols. Should I have 3 squads of retributors with multi meltas as well? Or mix it up a bit with some heavy bolters and/or flamers?


At least 1 squad. Bare minimum. With no exorcists multi melta is your only long range at. Meltaguns nice enough but 12" range makes them strugle to shoot at times. I have had games where by turn 3 no meltagun has been fired. Even t4 isn't quaranteed on some maps and opponents.

Sucks if you have no ranged at to deal with vehicles at range. And some vehicles you want to destroy before they get within 12"


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/04 16:05:49


Post by: generalchaos34


tneva82 wrote:
 Porphyrius wrote:
Here’s a question: how much melta is enough? I’m thinking of an all infantry list (I.e. no Exorcists) and I’m wondering how to kit out my retributors. I’m planning on a brigade and vanguard detachment, with sisters units with 2 meltas and 3x5 seraphim with inferno pistols. Should I have 3 squads of retributors with multi meltas as well? Or mix it up a bit with some heavy bolters and/or flamers?


At least 1 squad. Bare minimum. With no exorcists multi melta is your only long range at. Meltaguns nice enough but 12" range makes them strugle to shoot at times. I have had games where by turn 3 no meltagun has been fired. Even t4 isn't quaranteed on some maps and opponents.

Sucks if you have no ranged at to deal with vehicles at range. And some vehicles you want to destroy before they get within 12"


I've been thinking about simply adding in 1-2 meltas in my regular squads just to spread around the anti-tank. Going from the guard analogy of "more is better" instead of putting all my eggs in one exorcist shaped basket. Not that I wont run those beautiful tanks but I also have a tank heavy meta


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/04 16:22:30


Post by: tneva82


I have meltas spread around as well but as i said 12" range sucks. Play vs ig in hammer and anvil and you might point meltagun to a tank in turn 5. Being fired one sided half the gamn or more bv tanks before you get into range sucks.

And when transport full of melee elite gets within range of 12" meltagun taking transport might not help much anymore...


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/04 17:40:47


Post by: Porphyrius


tneva82 wrote:
 Porphyrius wrote:
Here’s a question: how much melta is enough? I’m thinking of an all infantry list (I.e. no Exorcists) and I’m wondering how to kit out my retributors. I’m planning on a brigade and vanguard detachment, with sisters units with 2 meltas and 3x5 seraphim with inferno pistols. Should I have 3 squads of retributors with multi meltas as well? Or mix it up a bit with some heavy bolters and/or flamers?


At least 1 squad. Bare minimum. With no exorcists multi melta is your only long range at. Meltaguns nice enough but 12" range makes them strugle to shoot at times. I have had games where by turn 3 no meltagun has been fired. Even t4 isn't quaranteed on some maps and opponents.

Sucks if you have no ranged at to deal with vehicles at range. And some vehicles you want to destroy before they get within 12"


Gotcha, thanks. I was definitely planning on at least one unit, but I wasn’t sure if devoting all three units of retributors to multi meltas might have been overdoing it.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/04 18:04:48


Post by: Oberron


 Porphyrius wrote:


Gotcha, thanks. I was definitely planning on at least one unit, but I wasn’t sure if devoting all three units of retributors to multi meltas might have been overdoing it.


Can always make it just 3 girls with mmeltas instead of 4 and add two of the armory cherubs. Saves a few points that way.

What order?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/04 19:04:56


Post by: Porphyrius


Oberron wrote:
 Porphyrius wrote:


Gotcha, thanks. I was definitely planning on at least one unit, but I wasn’t sure if devoting all three units of retributors to multi meltas might have been overdoing it.


Can always make it just 3 girls with mmeltas instead of 4 and add two of the armory cherubs. Saves a few points that way.

What order?


That’s actually exactly what I have pencilled into my list right now! I’m returning to 40k after a couple years away (and I only had a handful of games even then) so I’m trying to wrap my head around what a decent list (certainly not tournament competitive) would look like. This is the first time in 8th I’m starting an army from scratch, so I want to get a sense of what might work before I commit a ton of money into the minis. I’m at work at the moment, but I’ll post the whole list this evening. I’m planning mono Bloody Rose, mainly because I’m not interested in painting the minis in two different schemes and I love the sound of how choppy BR is.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/05 02:12:04


Post by: Porphyrius


So, here is the list that I've been thinking of thus far. I saw someone mention a couple pages back about a big blob of buffed Celestians that seemed to make sense to me, so I was thinking of running that along with some other more traditionally stabby units like Repentia and Zephyrim. Melta sisters push forward with the Celestian blob behind, bare sisters hang back on objectives. Seraphim deep strike to knock out heavy targets with their inferno pistols. Repentia and Celestine get in position for a turn two (hopefully) charge with support from Zephyrim. Judicious use of Tear Them Down and Blessed Bolts as needed.

What do you all think? I'm very keen to hear any and all advice!


++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [82 PL, -1CP, 1,503pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Order Convictions: Order: Bloody Rose

+ Stratagems +

Open the Reliquaries [-1CP]: Additional Relics of the Ecclesiarchy

+ HQ +

Canoness [Legends] [3 PL, 53pts]: Boltgun, Brazier of Holy Fire, Chainsword, Relic: Beneficence

Canoness [Legends] [3 PL, 46pts]: Chainsword, Condemnor Boltgun

Missionary [2 PL, 38pts]
. Autogun and Laspistol

+ Troops +

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 77pts]
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Meltagun
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Power maul

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 77pts]
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Meltagun
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Power maul

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 77pts]
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Meltagun
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Power maul

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 73pts]
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Meltagun
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]
. 4x Battle Sister
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword

Battle Sister Squad [6 PL, 54pts]
. 5x Battle Sister
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword

+ Elites +

Celestian Squad [6 PL, 108pts]
. 7x Celestian
. Celestian Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Power maul
. Celestian w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Celestian w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter

Celestian Squad [6 PL, 108pts]
. 7x Celestian
. Celestian Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Power maul
. Celestian w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Celestian w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter

Celestian Squad [6 PL, 108pts]
. 7x Celestian
. Celestian Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Power maul
. Celestian w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Celestian w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Seraphim Squad [4 PL, 87pts]
. 2x Seraphim
. Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Power sword
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols

Seraphim Squad [4 PL, 87pts]
. 2x Seraphim
. Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Power sword
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols

Seraphim Squad [4 PL, 87pts]
. 2x Seraphim
. Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Power sword
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols

+ Heavy Support +

Retributor Squad [6 PL, 126pts]: 2x Armourium Cherub
. Retributor
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

Retributor Squad [6 PL, 126pts]: 2x Armourium Cherub
. Retributor
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

Retributor Squad [6 PL, 126pts]: 2x Armourium Cherub
. Retributor
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [24 PL, -1CP, 497pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Order Convictions: Order: Bloody Rose

+ HQ +

Celestine [8 PL, 160pts]

+ Elites +

Imagifier [2 PL, -1CP, 45pts]: Relic: Book of St. Lucius, Tale of the Stoic, Tale of the Warrior, Venerated Saint, Warlord, Warlord Trait: 5. Indomitable Belief

Sisters Repentia [5 PL, 117pts]: 9x Sisters Repentia

Zephyrim Squad [9 PL, 175pts]
. 9x Zephyrim: 9x Power sword
. Zephyrim Superior: Bolt pistol, Power sword, Zephyrim Pennant

++ Total: [106 PL, -2CP, 2,000pts] ++


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/05 03:10:24


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


skycapt44 wrote:That looks pretty good actually! Maybe even a little longer blades! It would represent the number of attacks the weapon yields. Go straight up Star Wars Kid up in there! Now we're talking...See Lord Katherine, and no offense, but you haven't a clue what you're talking about.


I will not insult a nice conversion that somebody made, especially because it is of high technical quality and appeals to that person's taste even if the concept behind it isn't something I personally appreciate. That said, I still think that 2-bladed swords look really goofy and like it's impossible to wield. 2-handed swords, though [especially with the little flared mini-hilt], look awesome and like somebody could hit really hard with it. I also like hand-axes, warhammers, and straight-swords for one-handed weapons. Polearms are also cool in general.

[Also, if you like Episode 1, Mesa really have to question yousa taste ]

Porphyrius wrote:Here’s a question: how much melta is enough? I’m thinking of an all infantry list (I.e. no Exorcists) and I’m wondering how to kit out my retributors. I’m planning on a brigade and vanguard detachment, with sisters units with 2 meltas and 3x5 seraphim with inferno pistols. Should I have 3 squads of retributors with multi meltas as well? Or mix it up a bit with some heavy bolters and/or flamers?


Enough to get the job done. I generally try to have more AT than I expect to need, because I can always shoot infantry with an AT gun and achieve results. If you're going to rely on 12" range infantry-ported AT, expect to need a lot.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/05 05:42:55


Post by: davidgr33n


@Porphyrius

I like the list, the Celestine blob was what I had mentioned a few pages back and it’s very powerful, a couple of things I’d change.

On the Celestians I’d probably save the points and keep the Chainswords on the Superiors. You’ll get an extra attack and still get Str4 AP-1. The strength of the setup is massed attacks with re-rolls on all attacks (and wounds with the Strat).

The list is powerful up to 24” but will be punished by long range opponents. At a minimum I’d change out some regular meltas for Heavy Bolters in your BS squads. Your Celestian squads should get an HB at minimum as well- remember they can reroll ALL MISSES when within 6” of a Canoness.

You’ll miss Exorcists but the list is very mobile and should do well if you can close the gap quickly against long range lists. Your Sephs and Zephs should help you tie up some of those if you can shoot off their screens with long- range HBs.

Looks very similar to my list and I think you’ll do well with it.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/05 06:33:29


Post by: tneva82


They don't reroll all misses. They reroll any hit roll they want. That's why they get to reroll even that 3 when moving with heavy weapon.

(and in off chance you want to hurt but not kill you can even reroll some hits to get misses if that matters...)


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/05 06:41:32


Post by: MacPhail


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
it is of high technical quality and appeals to that person's taste even if the concept behind it isn't something I personally appreciate


Hey, thanks! I wasn't totally thrilled with my scratchbuilt hand, but it worked out alright. I won't claim great taste (10+ years ago), but it was a fun project. The wings were the good part, and they're magnetic, so my Canoness wears them around these days.

@ Porphyrius, I like the outlines of your list, but it has some redundant patches. I don't know if you've done the special weapon math on what comes in which boxes, but you could swing roughly the same weapons around and get a list with some cool variations. I'd give a squad of Celestians some meltaguns; they'll be close anyway, have great rerolls, and can add a simulacrum and cherub if you want; if your ranged AT fails to crack a transport, they can finish the job up close. I'd swap one squad of Seraphim for stormbolter Dominions; you can only DS two units of Seraphim with Deadly Descent, and Doms are the better target for Blessed Bolts. I agree with davidgr33n on the heavy bolters, but swapping them in for multimeltas in one Retributer squad squad will save points, give a useful option against certain enemies, and keep the HBs where they can run-n-gun. You'll miss the AT, but sometimes you just need to chew a hole in a troop screen to not get bogged down. If you tool up your second Canoness for close quarters (Blade of Admonition and inferno pistol?) and add a second Imagifier, you can split your force more easily to pick your battles without leaving your aura. If it gets tight on points, I think you could give up some Celestians and/or the Repentia and bulk up some other squads like Seraphim or Dominions for staying power. Still a very fun list... I'm curious if you figure out a box count for it.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/05 21:41:34


Post by: Grundz


Bloody rose sisters finished top 5 again at a GT
This time basically abandoning everything but bloody rose except for the canoness that guarantees the first turn charge


==Mixed Battalion Detachment (+5 cp)==
HQ: Celestine [160]

HQ:Cannoness (45), bolt gun and chainsword (0) [45] WARLORD – Terrible Knowledge, RELIC – Litanies of Faith (Ebon Chalice)

HQ: Inquisitor, bolt gun and chainsword (0) [55] (Xenos – terrify)

Elite: Imagifier [45] Tale of the Warrior (Bloody Rose)

Troops: 5 Sisters of Battle, bolt gun (0 and chainsword on superior (0) [45] (Bloody Rose)

Troops: 5 Sisters of Battle, bolt gun (0 and chainsword on superior (0) [45] (Bloody Rose)

Troops: 5 Sisters of Battle, bolt gun (0 and chainsword on superior (0) [45] (Bloody Rose)

==Bloody Rose Battalion Detachment (+5 cp)==

HQ: Cannoness(45), bolt gun and chainsword(0) [45]

HQ: Missionary, shotgun and bolt pistol (0) [38]

Troops: 5 Sisters of Battle, bolt gun (0 and chainsword on superior (0) [45]

Troops: 5 Sisters of Battle, bolt gun (0 and chainsword on superior (0) [45]

Troops: 5 Sisters of Battle, bolt gun (0 and chainsword on superior (0) [45]

Fast Attack: 10 Seraphim (110), 4 inferno pistols (28), plasma pistol (5) [143]

Fast Attack: 8 Seraphim (88), 4 inferno pistols (28) [116]

Fast Attack: 8 Seraphim (88), 4 inferno pistols (28) [116]

No Slot: Repentia Superior (35), bolt pistol(0) [35]

Elite: 9 Repentia [117]

Elite: 9 Repentia [117]

Elite: 9 Repentia [117]

Elite: 9 Zephyrim (117), Zephyrim Pendant (5), 9 power swords (36) [158]

Elite: 9 Zephyrim (117), 9 power swords (36) [153]

Elite: 8 Zephyrim (104), 8 power swords (32) [136]


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/05 23:12:20


Post by: ierp


Hello, what is the general consensus - if there is one - on how to set up a repentia squad?

1) Rhino or not rhino?

2) If in rhino, should I take 8 repentia to put the repentia superrior and a priest in the rhino too?

3) By foot, should I play more than 9 to avoid geting her wiped out by the time they arrive in close range?

Thanks you in advance


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/05 23:21:06


Post by: Asmodai


I'm not sure there's a general consensus - as there are successful lists doing both mechanized and not.

I think if you've got a lot of Repentia and Zephyrim, like the list Grundz posted, the Rhinos aren't needed since you've got so many targets and they'd get too expensive to buy for everyone.

If you've just got a squad or two to provide a counter-charge to protect a shooty VH core, it might make sense to protect them till they're needed.


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/05 23:50:57


Post by: Grundz


 ierp wrote:
Hello, what is the general consensus - if there is one - on how to set up a repentia squad?

1) Rhino or not rhino?

2) If in rhino, should I take 8 repentia to put the repentia superrior and a priest in the rhino too?

3) By foot, should I play more than 9 to avoid geting her wiped out by the time they arrive in close range?

Thanks you in advance


In a rhino they can disembark their 3" , use a miracle dice for advance, and then reroll the charge dice for an easy first turn charge


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/06 02:05:44


Post by: ierp


Thanks you for your responses

Yeah I saw on 1d4chan that 3" tactics implying that you have to disembark and hope on good miracle dice to cross the 24" that separates you from the enemy deployment. I find it a bit pricey, you have to throw some CP into a stratagem to advance and charge, don't you? Moreover, it implies that your opponents set his models just at 12" from the border. I usually see my opponents putting their gunline in buildings at less than 12".

In the case I would like to play one or two squad to counter-charge, why would I want to keep them in a rhino instead of letting them rest in a building just to make them go out and jump on the fool who would have the idea to charge my gunline?



Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/06 02:10:04


Post by: Grundz


 ierp wrote:
Thanks you for your responses

Yeah I saw on 1d4chan that 3" tactics implying that you have to disembark and hope on good miracle dice to cross the 24" that separates you from the enemy deployment. I find it a bit pricey, you have to throw some CP into a stratagem to advance and charge, don't you? Moreover, it implies that your opponents set his models just at 12" from the border. I usually see my opponents putting their gunline in buildings at less than 12".


That is the purpose of the canoness, she turns that first miracle dice into a 6, and then you can reroll one miracle dice per turn

the opponent has to decide between eating that first turn charge or ceding most of the board which typically leads to losing in GT's


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/06 02:58:07


Post by: Porphyrius


Thanks for the tips all! Adding in some heavy bolters totally makes sense, and saving the points on power mauls in favor additional attacks does as well. I also like the idea of a squad of storm bolter dominions in favor of the third unit of seraphim; they should prove more useful than a turn 4 drop of inferno pistols. Doing all of that, I can squeeze in another imagifier to buff another section of the army against ap-1 shots.

What about the repentia? They clearly hit like a truck, but are they worth it in a list like this? Without redundancy, I worry that they'll be blasted off the board without doing much of anything, and I'm not sure that sitting them in a Rhino in a list like this makes much sense either (as it would be literally the only juicy target for heavy weapons). Are they worth it if you only take one unit? If not, what ought I replace them with?


Sisters of Battle 2019 Codex Tactics @ 2020/03/06 03:51:56


Post by: davidgr33n


I like Repentia and have included them in my Celestian bomb list. One unit of 9 would be optimal and no need for a RSuperior. I line them up in the aura bubble behind the Celestians and use them as a threat against big boss types in case they get close. In the bubble they should have at least a 5++/5+++.

That said, I don’t think they’re optimal as we really need more ranged threats, so those are the points I started using to buy heavy bolters with and spreading them throughout my list.

I think the Celestian bomb is great but as I’ve tinkered with my list over the months I’ve more and more tended toward Mortifiers as my close combat threat choice and have kept the rest of my list as pure VH for the defensive buffs.