CthuluIsSpy wrote: Fair enough, its just kind of amusing they are advertising the CA book this soon. Then again, I guess it does make sense as they already have a tank to put into it. Though why it's not in the index is beyond me.
What would be the selling point of this book if you had all new toys already in the indexes?
The new tank was released right after the index. In fact the Index isn't technically out yet; the release date is scheduled for June 3rd. They could have included the tank in the index, and place any new releases from the following 6 months into the Chapter Approved book. Its actually really odd considering the timing.
Kirasu wrote: They really are trying hard to destroy internal consistency in their setting with vehicles like this.. Where were all these technological advancements hiding? I guess it's nice that a SINGLE previously unknown character magically creates them all in the last year.
Primaris should use everything space marines use since Guilliman is leading them.. you know the guy who wrote the codex astartes.
It actually makes perfect sense... The Imperium's tech was wilfully held back by the admech cult mechanicus religion. They were always capable of vastly higher tech they just stopped themselves lifting so much as a finger to develop it if it didn't already exist or come out of an STC. Being authorised to innovate by a higher power is all the older, more knowledgeable ones with memories from the Mechanicum days to start belting out new designs.
Secondly, Guilliman never meant the Codex to be an immutable, never changing rule set. If you read the Heresy books, it is made clear that he valued adaptation to new data a vital part of his entire methodology. Like the Mechanicus, it is the misinterpretation of tradition and inflexibility that confined the strategies/tech, not any inherent practical block. Guilliman would definitely be 100% in character to adapt and innovate in the face of new circumstances. (One could interpret many inferences about taking old writings verbatim and never seeking to interpret or update to changing realities).
It's a big shift from old 40k, but it is not one that doesn't have plenty of precedent in existing lore.
They've previewed a new Dreadnought and a new Tank neither of which are in the Index for Primaris marines. This is pretty suggestive of a Codex coming pretty quickly. Same applies to Death Guard.
That flying land raider is....ugh. Reminds me of . What it needs is more cowbell . On a serious note and question, in regards to this model, will the existence of this type of grav tank now make it possible to have a Custodes Army with the new 30k grav Custodes vehicles ? I think so!
Having SM codex as first or one of the first each edition is one thing but releasing it shortly after index1? Next year would make sense but not earlier.
Shadow Walker wrote: Having SM codex as first or one of the first each edition is one thing but releasing it shortly after index1? Next year would make sense but not earlier.
Index 1 is only converting the EXISTING models into 8th edition. Codex Primaris will have the shiny new bling. New players who start with Primaris Marines won't even have to buy index books
Shadow Walker wrote: Having SM codex as first or one of the first each edition is one thing but releasing it shortly after index1? Next year would make sense but not earlier.
Index 1 is only converting the EXISTING models into 8th edition. Codex Primaris will have the shiny new bling. New players who start with Primaris Marines won't even have to buy index books
Shadow Walker wrote: Having SM codex as first or one of the first each edition is one thing but releasing it shortly after index1? Next year would make sense but not earlier.
I believe Primaris will be the first codex, and if that's the case then the army will need to be *at least* relatively fleshed out (think the Mechanicus books). They'll probably avoid putting out generic infantry for a little bit until the new intro box has sold significantly, but a number of the Primaris analogs will probably be included. The goal is most likely to have these guys as their own whole army- the transports already only transport Primaris marines, so they're on track for this.
Frankly, it needs less missile pods.
That's saying something, coming from a Tau player.
The turret, cupola and the co-axial systems are really cool, but there are too many random missile pods that look forced on.
It would appear the Imperium is now comparing design notes with Cobra.
Oaka wrote:
So this is a preview of a product that will be made to fix the problems in a product that hasn't been released yet?
I see it more as admitting that they no there will be things missed in playtesting and letting the players know they plan to fix the issues.
The twitch channel is confusing when it comes to making saves. The Pox caster got hit twice with overcharged Plasma. He had to make 4 saves? Because 2 hits at 2 damage means 4 saves?
But then they went to say that 2 hits means 2 saves and if you fail 1, then you get 2 resilient saves.... So do you save per hit? Or per damage?
Zewrath wrote: That new land raider.. I love how they made a meme come true!
This is why we need to stop making joke posts of crazy army combos and vehicle wish listing. GW might very well take the worst idea and make it a reality.
nintura wrote: The twitch channel is confusing when it comes to making saves. The Pox caster got hit twice with overcharged Plasma. He had to make 4 saves? Because 2 hits at 2 damage means 4 saves?
But then they went to say that 2 hits means 2 saves and if you fail 1, then you get 2 resilient saves.... So do you save per hit? Or per damage?
He didn't have an armor save. Disgunstingly resilient is 5+ for *each* wound suffered. He suffered 4 and so made 4 saves.
Shadow Walker wrote: Having SM codex as first or one of the first each edition is one thing but releasing it shortly after index1? Next year would make sense but not earlier.
I believe Primaris will be the first codex, and if that's the case then the army will need to be *at least* relatively fleshed out (think the Mechanicus books). They'll probably avoid putting out generic infantry for a little bit until the new intro box has sold significantly, but a number of the Primaris analogs will probably be included. The goal is most likely to have these guys as their own whole army- the transports already only transport Primaris marines, so they're on track for this.
There's a post several pages back. There's pics comparing the Primaris booklet in the starter box with the full Primaris codex that is coming out after the starter. There's differences in the two... The Primaris full codex is already made and will most likely be out in July (?)....
nintura wrote: The twitch channel is confusing when it comes to making saves. The Pox caster got hit twice with overcharged Plasma. He had to make 4 saves? Because 2 hits at 2 damage means 4 saves?
But then they went to say that 2 hits means 2 saves and if you fail 1, then you get 2 resilient saves.... So do you save per hit? Or per damage?
Normal Saves and Invulnerable Saves are against successful To Wounds (or hits, as you put it).
Disgustingly Resilient rolls (since they aren't technically saves) and the like are taken against Wounds Suffered - or Damage.
Ragnar69 wrote: Save is per hit, stuff like FnP is per damaga
Not sure how Disgustingly Resilient is worded, but Tau Stimulant Injectors (our FnP) specifically calls out wounds, not damage. Anytime a model with Stim suffers a wound or mortal wound, roll a D6. On a 6, that wound is ignored. So unless Nurgle FnP is worded completely differently, new FnP is rolled for the wound, not the damage. If you make the roll you ignore any damage you would take from the wound, if you fail you take full damage.
Ragnar69 wrote: Save is per hit, stuff like FnP is per damaga
Not sure how Disgustingly Resilient is worded, but Tau Stimulant Injectors (our FnP) specifically calls out wounds, not damage. Anytime a model with Stim suffers a wound or mortal wound, roll a D6. On a 6, that wound is ignored. So unless Nurgle FnP is worded completely differently, new FnP is rolled for the wound, not the damage. If you make the roll you ignore any damage you would take from the wound, if you fail you take full damage.
DR is "each time a model loses a wound" which happens after you roll for/assign damage. They played it correctly. If you hit with a D3 damage weapon, you assign the hit, they make their save, you roll for damage and get a 2, 2 wounds are assigned, you roll Stim/DR twice to prevent those wounds.
So this is a preview of a product that will be made to fix the problems in a product that hasn't been released yet?
I see it more as admitting that they no there will be things missed in playtesting and letting the players know they plan to fix the issues.
Day 0 Tabletop DLC announcement... but, hey, at least we get 12 pages of rules for free, amirite?! I get the feeling that this will be both the Bucket o' Dice edition as well as the Nickel and Dime edition.
AnthonyXYZ wrote: I'm sure this is already covered earlier in this mega-thread.. but I haven't seen it mentioned much.
Upon reading the rules leaks, it appears you can be shot in combat now. Provided you are not within 1 inch of an enemy model.. can't bode well for the back of a large nid/ork blob?
I'm surprised this hasn't created more uproar.
No, the unit may not be within of 1" of the enemy, not the model.
Ragnar69 wrote: Save is per hit, stuff like FnP is per damaga
Not sure how Disgustingly Resilient is worded, but Tau Stimulant Injectors (our FnP) specifically calls out wounds, not damage. Anytime a model with Stim suffers a wound or mortal wound, roll a D6. On a 6, that wound is ignored. So unless Nurgle FnP is worded completely differently, new FnP is rolled for the wound, not the damage. If you make the roll you ignore any damage you would take from the wound, if you fail you take full damage.
DR is "each time a model loses a wound" which happens after you roll for/assign damage. They played it correctly. If you hit with a D3 damage weapon, you assign the hit, they make their save, you roll for damage and get a 2, 2 wounds are assigned, you roll Stim/DR twice to prevent those wounds.
Except that Stim is worded differently. The exact wording is "Roll a dice each time a model with a stimulant injector suffers a wound or mortal wound. On a roll of 6, ignore it." It doesn't say lose a wound, but suffers a wound. You suffer a wound after failing a save, but you only lose a wound after taking damage. That means that, going by the wording of Stim, you would roll the D6 prior to rolling for damage.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Now the question is, does that mean every one else in the imperium gets a grav tank now? Or is Cawl just going to go "nuh uh, my tank. Get your own plans"
I hooe he shares, I want to put Custodes in it so they can finally get their Grav Rhino style ride back.
As for e boxes of missiles, the could be something like the grenade launchers on a Land Raider, or the Fire Barrels on a Taurox: just another means of giving the vehicle a round 1 melee attack in combat.
Ragnar69 wrote: Save is per hit, stuff like FnP is per damaga
Not sure how Disgustingly Resilient is worded, but Tau Stimulant Injectors (our FnP) specifically calls out wounds, not damage. Anytime a model with Stim suffers a wound or mortal wound, roll a D6. On a 6, that wound is ignored. So unless Nurgle FnP is worded completely differently, new FnP is rolled for the wound, not the damage. If you make the roll you ignore any damage you would take from the wound, if you fail you take full damage.
DR is "each time a model loses a wound" which happens after you roll for/assign damage. They played it correctly. If you hit with a D3 damage weapon, you assign the hit, they make their save, you roll for damage and get a 2, 2 wounds are assigned, you roll Stim/DR twice to prevent those wounds.
Except that Stim is worded differently. The exact wording is "Roll a dice each time a model with a stimulant injector suffers a wound or mortal wound. On a roll of 6, ignore it." It doesn't say lose a wound, but suffers a wound. You suffer a wound after failing a save, but you only lose a wound after taking damage. That means that, going by the wording of Stim, you would roll the D6 prior to rolling for damage.
Models never "suffer a wound".
3. Allocate Wound: "If an attack successfully wounds the target, the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound..." - The unit get a wound, the player allocates the wound to a model.
4. Saving Throw: "... then the damage is prevented... [otherwise]... the model suffers damage..." - The model saves the wound, if not saved, the wound assigns damage.
5. Inflict Damage: "A model loses one wound for each point of damage it suffers." - The model takes/suffers a wound for every damage.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Fair enough, its just kind of amusing they are advertising the CA book this soon.
Then again, I guess it does make sense as they already have a tank to put into it. Though why it's not in the index is beyond me.
What would be the selling point of this book if you had all new toys already in the indexes?
The new tank was released right after the index. In fact the Index isn't technically out yet; the release date is scheduled for June 3rd.
They could have included the tank in the index, and place any new releases from the following 6 months into the Chapter Approved book.
Its actually really odd considering the timing.
The core rulebook says all rules will be on the box for new models, and it's likely to be in the Marine codex that's coming since we know they're likely first out of the gate this time.
The Repulsor is pretty cool. If you are going to roll out +1 Marines it seems a suitable tank for the job. More advanced, a coldwar tank to most of the imperium's interwar/WWII.
Variations in the fine points of feel no pain type rules is already showing that maybe universal special rules were not so evil after all.
Roleplayer wrote: I REALLY hate the new direction the Imperium Lore is going, so the only way O can still play 40k with friends, is to play my Sisters of Battle, have them them waging a war against Gulliman and his band of heretics.
At least that way, everytime a dumb hover tank rolls out I can nod and be like "The heresy is further confirmed" and then the Sisters can scorch some Primarius Marines as the mutant they are.
Gulliman died on Ultramar.
A Xenos puppet commands the Imperium.
Death to the False Prophet. Rise up, true servants of the Emperor!
Disappointing that they are repeating info already shared to be honest - they already showed the whole data card with Rubrics. maybe they felt that as its already all leaked why try very hard.
The way all those missile pods are positioned, along with the little lenses makes me wonder if they are supposed to be some sort of defensive aids for the tank. Shooting down incoming projectiles etc. Guess we'll see when the rules drop.
Because most engines produce waste of some sort. Well that's the practical reason, real reason is "Because space marine vehicles have exhaust."
It's the Imperium! Any engine they create will produce waste like no tomorrow: They aren't focused on efficiency or sleek design, more like "Brute force solutions always work!"
Because most engines produce waste of some sort. Well that's the practical reason, real reason is "Because space marine vehicles have exhaust."
It's the Imperium! Any engine they produce will produce waste like no tomorrow: They aren't focused on efficiency or sleek design, more like "Brute force solutions always work!"
Which is how the Thunderhawk works: by falling towards the horizon faster than it falls down.
EDIT: More on topic, I love the design, but can agree that perhaps the lids for the boxes would be better sealed shut instead of open.
And it does look like the round thing in the back might be the latest version of the smoke launcher. IIRC it was in the new Dreadnought too, correct?
Looks like another you love it or you hate it model. The front looks pretty disgusting, too much metallic on there. The back looks like it belongs on a different model, though I can't put my finger on which. Either way I'm not a fan, hopefully I'll warm up to it. Disappointing after being pretty happy about the Primaris Marines.
So the thing specifically called out by the rules as happening never happens?
3. Allocate Wound: "If an attack successfully wounds the target, the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound..." - The unit get a wound, the player allocates the wound to a model.
4. Saving Throw: "... then the damage is prevented... [otherwise]... the model suffers damage..." - The model saves the wound, if not saved, the wound assigns damage.
5. Inflict Damage: "A model loses one wound for each point of damage it suffers." - The model takes/suffers a wound for every damage.
So do models suffer wounds or not? Because in here you, in your own words, describe the rules by saying that models suffer wounds. By failing to save a wound, the target unit suffers a wound. That wound then inflicts damage equal to its damage value as indicated by the weapon stat line. When you have successfully wounded a target, that target must then make saving throws. For every failed saving throw, that unit suffers a wound. You then allocate damage to the unit based on the number of wounds suffered. You don't jump straight from failed saving throw to damage, you must determine the number of wounds suffered, THEN determine the damage suffered. If you toss out that step of determining wounds suffered/failed to save against, as you are indicating, then the process breaks down.
Is there any word on whether models in terminator armour ignore the -1 to hit with heavy weapons? I ask because in the grey knights Wargear, terminators pay more than PA guys for heavy weapons so I'd expect them to be better...
WarbossDakka wrote: Looks like another you love it or you hate it model. The front looks pretty disgusting, too much metallic on there. The back looks like it belongs on a different model, though I can't put my finger on which. Either way I'm not a fan, hopefully I'll warm up to it. Disappointing after being pretty happy about the Primaris Marines.
I think the Grav Plates would work better in a dark metal color like Screaming Bell with some highlights. Then again I tend to like my metals darker than most.
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ColdSadHungry wrote: Is there any word on whether models in terminator armour ignore the -1 to hit with heavy weapons? I ask because in the grey knights Wargear, terminators pay more than PA guys for heavy weapons so I'd expect them to be better...
Nope. Instead you have extra wounds and a teleport strike (which all GK have, but I'm speaking of the general upgrade over power armour) All "relentless" style rules are all bespoke and would be in the unit profile.
Of, and now Storm Bolters are double bolters to Termis have double shots over regular Marines as well.
So the thing specifically called out by the rules as happening never happens?
3. Allocate Wound: "If an attack successfully wounds the target, the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound..." - The unit get a wound, the player allocates the wound to a model.
4. Saving Throw: "... then the damage is prevented... [otherwise]... the model suffers damage..." - The model saves the wound, if not saved, the wound assigns damage.
5. Inflict Damage: "A model loses one wound for each point of damage it suffers." - The model takes/suffers a wound for every damage.
So do models suffer wounds or not? Because in here you, in your own words, describe the rules by saying that models suffer wounds. By failing to save a wound, the target unit suffers a wound. That wound then inflicts damage equal to its damage value as indicated by the weapon stat line. When you have successfully wounded a target, that target must then make saving throws. For every failed saving throw, that unit suffers a wound. You then allocate damage to the unit based on the number of wounds suffered. You don't jump straight from failed saving throw to damage, you must determine the number of wounds suffered, THEN determine the damage suffered. If you toss out that step of determining wounds suffered/failed to save against, as you are indicating, then the process breaks down.
Suffer was my own words. Models never "suffer a wound" in the core rules. If you want to RAW, then we can say Stims never do anything because models never suffer wounds, they just lose them.
v0iddrgn wrote: I have a question about points. Do special characters like Kaptin Badrukk have to pay for their wargear separately like all the other models?
The column header in the price list will say if they're inclusive of wargear or not.
v0iddrgn wrote: I have a question about points. Do special characters like Kaptin Badrukk have to pay for their wargear separately like all the other models?
Nope. The points given to the majority of special characters have their wargear included.
WarbossDakka wrote: Looks like another you love it or you hate it model. The front looks pretty disgusting, too much metallic on there. The back looks like it belongs on a different model, though I can't put my finger on which. Either way I'm not a fan, hopefully I'll warm up to it. Disappointing after being pretty happy about the Primaris Marines.
I think the Grav Plates would work better in a dark metal color like Screaming Bell with some highlights. Then again I tend to like my metals darker than most.
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ColdSadHungry wrote: Is there any word on whether models in terminator armour ignore the -1 to hit with heavy weapons? I ask because in the grey knights Wargear, terminators pay more than PA guys for heavy weapons so I'd expect them to be better...
Nope. Instead you have extra wounds and a teleport strike (which all GK have, but I'm speaking of the general upgrade over power armour) All "relentless" style rules are all bespoke and would be in the unit profile.
Of, and now Storm Bolters are double bolters to Termis have double shots over regular Marines as well.
Thanks. Still seems odd that you pay more for the weapon since I would assume the extra abilities they have for being terminators are reflected in their increased model cost over PA guys. Still, it is what it is.
v0iddrgn wrote: I have a question about points. Do special characters like Kaptin Badrukk have to pay for their wargear separately like all the other models?
When you look at the points list you'll see a section marked "Special Characters" shich has a note that reads "points cost includes wargear". The Kaptin should be on that list for Orks.
Actually the only special character who seems to not be on the list is Bjorn due to his multiple load outs. They split Khian into two entries (one wi his bike, the other without).
I just noticed that Daemons have a slight buff to MSU because they don't pay for equipment anymore, so a group of 3 drones come with an icon, musician, and champion for "free".
Swara wrote: I just noticed that Daemons have a slight buff to MSU because they don't pay for equipment anymore, so a group of 3 drones come with an icon, musician, and champion for "free".
Look at "Other Wargear" on the points page.
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RabidDuck wrote: I did a quick search and could not find an answer. How are points for squad leaders determined? I do not see a point cost for Boss Nobs or Sgts'?
If there's no points listed, they're free. Most unit leaders are free.
So the thing specifically called out by the rules as happening never happens?
3. Allocate Wound: "If an attack successfully wounds the target, the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound..." - The unit get a wound, the player allocates the wound to a model.
4. Saving Throw: "... then the damage is prevented... [otherwise]... the model suffers damage..." - The model saves the wound, if not saved, the wound assigns damage.
5. Inflict Damage: "A model loses one wound for each point of damage it suffers." - The model takes/suffers a wound for every damage.
So do models suffer wounds or not? Because in here you, in your own words, describe the rules by saying that models suffer wounds. By failing to save a wound, the target unit suffers a wound. That wound then inflicts damage equal to its damage value as indicated by the weapon stat line. When you have successfully wounded a target, that target must then make saving throws. For every failed saving throw, that unit suffers a wound. You then allocate damage to the unit based on the number of wounds suffered. You don't jump straight from failed saving throw to damage, you must determine the number of wounds suffered, THEN determine the damage suffered. If you toss out that step of determining wounds suffered/failed to save against, as you are indicating, then the process breaks down.
Suffer was my own words. Models never "suffer a wound" in the core rules. If you want to RAW, then we can say Stims never do anything because models never suffer wounds, they just lose them.
So then what happens after you make your to hit rolls? What are you rolling for there? What is the target unit rolling saving throws against? They don't just lose wounds, they only lose wounds after saving throws have been failed.
So the thing specifically called out by the rules as happening never happens?
3. Allocate Wound: "If an attack successfully wounds the target, the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound..." - The unit get a wound, the player allocates the wound to a model.
4. Saving Throw: "... then the damage is prevented... [otherwise]... the model suffers damage..." - The model saves the wound, if not saved, the wound assigns damage.
5. Inflict Damage: "A model loses one wound for each point of damage it suffers." - The model takes/suffers a wound for every damage.
So do models suffer wounds or not? Because in here you, in your own words, describe the rules by saying that models suffer wounds. By failing to save a wound, the target unit suffers a wound. That wound then inflicts damage equal to its damage value as indicated by the weapon stat line. When you have successfully wounded a target, that target must then make saving throws. For every failed saving throw, that unit suffers a wound. You then allocate damage to the unit based on the number of wounds suffered. You don't jump straight from failed saving throw to damage, you must determine the number of wounds suffered, THEN determine the damage suffered. If you toss out that step of determining wounds suffered/failed to save against, as you are indicating, then the process breaks down.
Suffer was my own words. Models never "suffer a wound" in the core rules. If you want to RAW, then we can say Stims never do anything because models never suffer wounds, they just lose them.
So then what happens after you make your to hit rolls? What are you rolling for there? What is the target unit rolling saving throws against? They don't just lose wounds, they only lose wounds after saving throws have been failed.
After your to hit roll you roll to wound the target. The target is a unit. The unit takes a wound if you make your to wound roll. The wound is then allocated to a model. The model then takes damage. The model then loses a wound for each damage they take. A *model* only loses wounds after damage has been assigned after savings throws have been failed.
Edit: As recommended by Azreal13, this now belongs in YMDC.
From what I can gather, and the horrible restrictions they placed ONLY on the deathwatch. Really, our terimnator captains cant take any options but every other space marine captain can.......RIGHT.......same with razorbacks and some FW bits only options.
The indexs are for units that have models AT LAUNCH. From what I can gather once the primaris are released and their plastic kits are released they will have a bunch more options for their characters and models.
For example in the death guard list the fluff specifically mentions that death guard have lots of terminators as a primary part of their attack forces. Yet their current list does not allow them to take terminators. Well what do we know that is coming but has not been released yet? Death guard terminator equivalents. I plan to hold off on assembling my primaris marines until their codex drops and we can see all the options. I bet the hellblaster squad and the inceptor squads will have more weapon options going forward.
One of the things that I am bothered by is the fact that blood angels assault marines lost their meltaguns. I was expecting all assault marines to finally get them. I personally plan to petition them to drop the "model only" policy when so many things are easily kitbashed.
Same with things like generic chapter masters and wolf lords disappearing. The only ones that stayed are ones that had models(like special characters)
Drop pod points make no god damn sense and the terminator restriction goes against the space wolf fluff completely.
So we will see. Cant wait till pre-orders so I can message them about everything
Swara wrote: I just noticed that Daemons have a slight buff to MSU because they don't pay for equipment anymore, so a group of 3 drones come with an icon, musician, and champion for "free".
Look at "Other Wargear" on the points page.
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RabidDuck wrote: I did a quick search and could not find an answer. How are points for squad leaders determined? I do not see a point cost for Boss Nobs or Sgts'?
If there's no points listed, they're free. Most unit leaders are free.
There are points costs there in "other wargear", but above that, it says the points costs for the daemons "including wargear" and in their datasheet wargear is listed that they can take.
As there's enough info available, I'd suggest that the wounding process and questions relating are now better served in YMDC rather than clogging up the news thread with yet another tangent.
Well, the Limited Edition has just been announced just as I checked the Youtube page for the first time in forever, and as it has been since the start of time they've got 1 or 2 things that I actually like, and the rest is pretty much an afterthough. I'm sure it is very high quality, and the cards and mini rulebook are very tempting, but this will surely be £100+, putting me off it. I bet I sound like a grumpy old sod today
There are points costs there in "other wargear", but above that, it says the points costs for the daemons "including wargear" and in their datasheet, it says that they are already equipped with it.
A plague drone is equipped with death's heads and a plague sword. You may take an Instrument (if you pay for it). You may take an Icon (if you pay for it). The Champion is free.
We’ve already seen the new Warhammer 40,000 book and the impressive Dark Imperium box, but there is a 3rd way for 2,000 of you discerning collectors to get your hands on the new Warhammer 40,000. To show you what it is, we’re going to pass you over to our favourite unboxing expert, Baz:
The Limited Edition of Warhammer 40,000 will be available exclusively from games-workshop.com tomorrow, alongside all our other pre-orders for the new edition. If you want one, don’t hang around, there are only 2,000 copies available worldwide.
Spoiler:
Black Library also have a Limited Edition book on offer tomorrow…
This weekend, Warhammer 40,000 enters a new era with the release of the Dark Imperium boxed set, and Black Library ready to join the Indomitus Crusade, starting with a novel by Guy Haley, aptly titled ‘Dark Imperium’. As the first novel set in the new galaxy status quo, it’s only fitting that it has a lavish Limited Edition…
Spoiler:
The ‘Dark Imperium’ Limited Edition is a 368-page hardback book with a soft-touch cover and leather-wrapped spine, with both gold foiling and artwork from the new game. The pages are gilt-edged, and the book includes two marker ribbons in black and gold – so it looks and feels like an artefact from the 41st Millennium.
But what about the contents? Well, the story sees Roboute Guilliman leading his Indomitus Crusade across the galaxy, bringing him back to Ultramar, where the pustulent Death Guard are laying siege to the Five Hundred Worlds. And as if that weren’t enough, this edition also includes an exclusive short story, ‘In the Grim Darkness’.
Each copy is individually signed by author Guy Haley and numbered from an edition of just 1,000. And it’s only available to order from blacklibrary.com, from this Saturday.
Leth wrote: From what I can gather, and the horrible restrictions they placed ONLY on the deathwatch. Really, our terimnator captains cant take any options but every other space marine captain can.......RIGHT.......same with razorbacks and some FW bits only options.
The indexs are for units that have models AT LAUNCH. From what I can gather once the primaris are released and their plastic kits are released they will have a bunch more options for their characters and models.
For example in the death guard list the fluff specifically mentions that death guard have lots of terminators as a primary part of their attack forces. Yet their current list does not allow them to take terminators. Well what do we know that is coming but has not been released yet? Death guard terminator equivalents. I plan to hold off on assembling my primaris marines until their codex drops and we can see all the options. I bet the hellblaster squad and the inceptor squads will have more weapon options going forward.
One of the things that I am bothered by is the fact that blood angels assault marines lost their meltaguns. I was expecting all assault marines to finally get them. I personally plan to petition them to drop the "model only" policy when so many things are easily kitbashed.
Same with things like generic chapter masters and wolf lords disappearing. The only ones that stayed are ones that had models(like special characters)
Drop pod points make no god damn sense and the terminator restriction goes against the space wolf fluff completely.
So we will see. Cant wait till pre-orders so I can message them about everything
Vanilla Librarians can also take Storm Shields, but they don't come in the blister pack for any of the Libbys.
Maybe there is a metal model lost somewhere with one and that's why they can have them, but kitbashing should be an option for every army in my book. I mean it's what I have to do to build proper Devastator Squads anyways.
scatter wrote: I have some questions to the leaked stuff. Haven't found answers so far yet.
Chaos:
1. I can't find the melt bomb anywhere in the Chaos index. Are they gone?
2. I can't find vehicle equitment like dirge casters and dozer blades. Are these things gone?
Orks:
1. The looted wagon is missing in the ork index part. Is it confirmed, that its gone?
General:
The indecis mention Legions and Marks for Chaos and Clan for Orks but those things are not described in the indices. Am i missing something, or will these come with codices?
THX!
You're not really missing anything. Lots of factions lost named units from supplements or White Dwarf exclusive stuff. You basically get your basic stuff with no fancy rules. The expectation is that we'll buy indexes now AND codexes later to get the full rules for our armies. The real question in my mind is how long will that take? 8th Edition drops 6/17. How many months/years until I have codexes in hand for my various armies? Who knows. Age of Sigmar has been out for ~2 years now and most of the factions don't have a full battletome. Given GW's history, I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get a codex for my army for a couple of years.
Thx! I thought i missed something badly from the leaks. I guess that some codices will be released pretty soon while we will have to wait for some longer. I still hope, that most of them will be released till end of summer. They needed play testing and therefore i think they are already done and waiting for release.
But what i don't understand is the number of books now. Wasn't it somehow supposed or implicated to get less? So now we have the 300page rulebook, than index plus codex plus Chapter approved? I wanted to buy more models not an endless series of book and lug them around! Or the index will become obsolete very quickly. i don't know, but i hate that kind of thing...
CragHack wrote: What's the price? I would buy it just for the small rulebook, fancy datacards, objective markers ant the range finder.
This, maybe minus the objective markers (I think I have a range finder somewhere too). Hopefully they come out with them individually, especially the mini rulebook.
scatter wrote: I have some questions to the leaked stuff. Haven't found answers so far yet.
Chaos:
1. I can't find the melt bomb anywhere in the Chaos index. Are they gone?
2. I can't find vehicle equitment like dirge casters and dozer blades. Are these things gone?
Orks:
1. The looted wagon is missing in the ork index part. Is it confirmed, that its gone?
General:
The indecis mention Legions and Marks for Chaos and Clan for Orks but those things are not described in the indices. Am i missing something, or will these come with codices?
THX!
You're not really missing anything. Lots of factions lost named units from supplements or White Dwarf exclusive stuff. You basically get your basic stuff with no fancy rules. The expectation is that we'll buy indexes now AND codexes later to get the full rules for our armies. The real question in my mind is how long will that take? 8th Edition drops 6/17. How many months/years until I have codexes in hand for my various armies? Who knows. Age of Sigmar has been out for ~2 years now and most of the factions don't have a full battletome. Given GW's history, I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get a codex for my army for a couple of years.
Thx! I thought i missed something badly from the leaks. I guess that some codices will be released pretty soon while we will have to wait for some longer. I still hope, that most of them will be released till end of summer. They needed play testing and therefore i think they are already done and waiting for release.
But what i don't understand is the number of books now. Wasn't it somehow supposed or implicated to get less? So now we have the 300page rulebook, than index plus codex plus Chapter approved? I wanted to buy more models not an endless series of book and lug them around! Or the index will become obsolete very quickly. i don't know, but i hate that kind of thing...
Apparently the indexes are just to update all of the current models to 8th ed. Each faction will get their own codex eventually, with the new 8th ed units included.
They said that awhile ago. They mentioned that there will be codex for each faction. The reason for the Indices was to put out rules for each model they currently produce.
We don't currently have faction specific stratagems or FOC. Also, the current psychic rules are a tad bland for each faction.
Last years was £200 after a quick Google search, so £250 wouldn't be too far off, but that is less expected from New GW. I'd expect it to be £150 - £200, but I guess rumor mills know more than I do. Lets just pray it's a bit less.
scatter wrote: I have some questions to the leaked stuff. Haven't found answers so far yet.
Chaos:
1. I can't find the melt bomb anywhere in the Chaos index. Are they gone?
2. I can't find vehicle equitment like dirge casters and dozer blades. Are these things gone?
Orks:
1. The looted wagon is missing in the ork index part. Is it confirmed, that its gone?
General:
The indecis mention Legions and Marks for Chaos and Clan for Orks but those things are not described in the indices. Am i missing something, or will these come with codices?
THX!
You're not really missing anything. Lots of factions lost named units from supplements or White Dwarf exclusive stuff. You basically get your basic stuff with no fancy rules. The expectation is that we'll buy indexes now AND codexes later to get the full rules for our armies. The real question in my mind is how long will that take? 8th Edition drops 6/17. How many months/years until I have codexes in hand for my various armies? Who knows. Age of Sigmar has been out for ~2 years now and most of the factions don't have a full battletome. Given GW's history, I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get a codex for my army for a couple of years.
Thx! I thought i missed something badly from the leaks. I guess that some codices will be released pretty soon while we will have to wait for some longer. I still hope, that most of them will be released till end of summer. They needed play testing and therefore i think they are already done and waiting for release.
But what i don't understand is the number of books now. Wasn't it somehow supposed or implicated to get less? So now we have the 300page rulebook, than index plus codex plus Chapter approved? I wanted to buy more models not an endless series of book and lug them around! Or the index will become obsolete very quickly. i don't know, but i hate that kind of thing...
Your codex will overwrite the index as for chapter approved, no real idea what'll be in that. You also only need 12 pages of that 300pg rulebook and those will be free downloads.
scatter wrote: I have some questions to the leaked stuff. Haven't found answers so far yet.
Chaos:
1. I can't find the melt bomb anywhere in the Chaos index. Are they gone?
2. I can't find vehicle equitment like dirge casters and dozer blades. Are these things gone?
Orks:
1. The looted wagon is missing in the ork index part. Is it confirmed, that its gone?
General:
The indecis mention Legions and Marks for Chaos and Clan for Orks but those things are not described in the indices. Am i missing something, or will these come with codices?
THX!
You're not really missing anything. Lots of factions lost named units from supplements or White Dwarf exclusive stuff. You basically get your basic stuff with no fancy rules. The expectation is that we'll buy indexes now AND codexes later to get the full rules for our armies. The real question in my mind is how long will that take? 8th Edition drops 6/17. How many months/years until I have codexes in hand for my various armies? Who knows. Age of Sigmar has been out for ~2 years now and most of the factions don't have a full battletome. Given GW's history, I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get a codex for my army for a couple of years.
Thx! I thought i missed something badly from the leaks. I guess that some codices will be released pretty soon while we will have to wait for some longer. I still hope, that most of them will be released till end of summer. They needed play testing and therefore i think they are already done and waiting for release.
But what i don't understand is the number of books now. Wasn't it somehow supposed or implicated to get less? So now we have the 300page rulebook, than index plus codex plus Chapter approved? I wanted to buy more models not an endless series of book and lug them around! Or the index will become obsolete very quickly. i don't know, but i hate that kind of thing...
Your codex will overwrite the index as for chapter approved, no real idea what'll be in that. You also only need 12 pages of that 300pg rulebook and those will be free downloads.
The only mission you get without the brb is the Only War one though. It's got about 50 pages of rules stuff for the game ranging from the core rules, to missions for all three game types, to battlefields you can use to shake the missions up. I'd say it's handy to have the actual core rule book and not just the free stuff, but then again I'm the biased sort who likes having my own book on hand to use instead of borrowing all the time.
This can't come soon enough, well I will have to wait longer since I wont be able to get down at launch!
The top one looks amazing and has a lot of texture to it. The bottom one however looks just like all the other mediocre art i've been bagging on the past couple years. Very photoshop esque maybe at best it belongs on a little book cover for a book that not many people will buy and read.
Anyhow, the grav repulsor tank looks pretty crazy. I like some aspects of it aside from the turret. It seems the turret is super busy and most of its weapons are on it. I kind of prefer the simplicity of the rhino...this thing looks like i'd paint one and then be like alright...I did one and that's all for now.
Daedalus81 wrote: This just in from the stream - reserves count as a drop.
What does this sentence mean? Is there some jargon I'm not up to date on?
The person who places the last model in deployment goes 2nd. Typically to avoid that, you could pick a bunch of models that Deep Strike in or similar, since they're not deployed as normal. He's saying that those units that aren't deployed as normal still counts as drops for determining first turn. What will be interesting to see is if they clarify if I can pick reserves drops before normal ones. IE: Player one deploys a rhino. Player two says "drop pod in reserve". Player one deploys another model. That gives a huge advantage to reserves.
NB: I didn't hear what they said in the stream.
Edit: There is nothing in the rules that speaks to this, yay or nay, that I can see.
While I understand what they were going for I think I would have preferred something that didn't maintain the Land Raider profile as much. That turret is too busy and the hull could be better.
Daedalus81 wrote: This just in from the stream - reserves count as a drop.
What does this sentence mean? Is there some jargon I'm not up to date on?
Okay, got clarification from the stream. Terminators deploy to a teleportarium, so you still have to "Deploy" them in the deployment phase, but they just dont get placed on the board. That gives an advantage to those people with models that can Deep Strike as that forces the opponent to reveal their deployments first.
aka_mythos wrote: While I understand what they were going for I think I would have preferred something that didn't maintain the Land Raider profile as much. That turret is too busy and the hull could be better.
Quick trim down of the turret. Maybe a bit better?
I didn't look specifically at the missile pods but they must be absolute pants for them to be handed out on everything like candy..
To me it screams Rhino outline way more than it does Land Raider.. and I think it's a preview of what the new Rhino might also have in store as far as bulk... maybe..
The armaments.. are just insane. The number of weapons are what I would expect on a superheavy or a FW vehicle that's insane.. or maybe an ork vehicle.. but here we have it on a medium/large tank body. (mind you I'm not caught up on current stuff so my mindset is more along the lines of 4th/5th)
I'm seeing what looks like 2 missile pods above the doors, 2 on the turrets, one on the rear, possibly another one on the turret (the weird little 3 missile thing), a TL lascannon, I think another lascannon, a heavy stubber or bolter coaxial, and.. a punisher gatling cannon on a pintel? That can't be right.. Maybe it's an assault cannon..
Space Marine Skimmer tank
With a large Lascannon turret
and Missiles
...This is the Deoderant Tank, isn't it?
I think I'd rather have the deodorant tank, it looks better.
I'm use to GW's new vehicles having something I need to fix on them, removing the landing gear from the turret gun on the stormtalon, changing the top turret on the stormraven. But with this I'm struggling to find any redeeming features.
I'm not one to cut GW any slack, but that is a cool tank. Love the grav tank, aggressive lines, more modern weapon loadout set up. The side launchers are probably defenses or maybe anti - air. Not that air power really matters un the new rules. -1 to hit. Big whup.
This can't come soon enough, well I will have to wait longer since I wont be able to get down at launch!
The top one looks amazing and has a lot of texture to it. The bottom one however looks just like all the other mediocre art i've been bagging on the past couple years. Very photoshop esque maybe at best it belongs on a little book cover for a book that not many people will buy and read.
MLaw wrote: I didn't look specifically at the missile pods but they must be absolute pants for them to be handed out on everything like candy..
To me it screams Rhino outline way more than it does Land Raider.. and I think it's a preview of what the new Rhino might also have in store as far as bulk... maybe..
The armaments.. are just insane. The number of weapons are what I would expect on a superheavy or a FW vehicle that's insane.. or maybe an ork vehicle.. but here we have it on a medium/large tank body. (mind you I'm not caught up on current stuff so my mindset is more along the lines of 4th/5th)
I'm seeing what looks like 2 missile pods above the doors, 2 on the turrets, one on the rear, possibly another one on the turret (the weird little 3 missile thing), a TL lascannon, I think another lascannon, a heavy stubber or bolter coaxial, and.. a punisher gatling cannon on a pintel? That can't be right.. Maybe it's an assault cannon..
That's a LOT of muscle.
I disagree, that is a land raider with grav.
Anyway, I don't like it, for a few reasons. I don't like the grav plates, I don't like them on a lot of things but they stick out too far for me.
Secondly, I don't like the departure from the fluff. I used to like Eldar having the grav tanks, I didn't like but accepted Tau having grav tanks as well but this is too far for me.
MLaw wrote: I didn't look specifically at the missile pods but they must be absolute pants for them to be handed out on everything like candy..
To me it screams Rhino outline way more than it does Land Raider.. and I think it's a preview of what the new Rhino might also have in store as far as bulk... maybe..
The armaments.. are just insane. The number of weapons are what I would expect on a superheavy or a FW vehicle that's insane.. or maybe an ork vehicle.. but here we have it on a medium/large tank body. (mind you I'm not caught up on current stuff so my mindset is more along the lines of 4th/5th)
I'm seeing what looks like 2 missile pods above the doors, 2 on the turrets, one on the rear, possibly another one on the turret (the weird little 3 missile thing), a TL lascannon, I think another lascannon, a heavy stubber or bolter coaxial, and.. a punisher gatling cannon on a pintel? That can't be right.. Maybe it's an assault cannon..
That's a LOT of muscle.
I disagree, that is a land raider with grav.
Anyway, I don't like it, for a few reasons. I don't like the grav plates, I don't like them on a lot of things but they stick out too far for me.
Secondly, I don't like the departure from the fluff. I used to like Eldar having the grav tanks, I didn't like but accepted Tau having grav tanks as well but this is too far for me.
The Imperium had grav technology in spades during the Great Crusade, Cawl bringing it back isn't really breaking anything I feel. If anything it feels like they're setting up some light before they screw humanity over harder.
"Look at how great the Imperium is doing!" GW says, "Now watch as we wreck this loving scene of progress and basically usher in a worse ending for mankind than what you had awaiting you before!"
This can't come soon enough, well I will have to wait longer since I wont be able to get down at launch!
The top one looks amazing and has a lot of texture to it. The bottom one however looks just like all the other mediocre art i've been bagging on the past couple years. Very photoshop esque maybe at best it belongs on a little book cover for a book that not many people will buy and read.
Aye, the style in the bottom reminds me of the one I like the least, does look a bit too 'digital' if that makes sense, but it's Templars so......
Hmm, maybe that's why I like that picture so much haha. I am still praying WarhammerArt release the BT cover. I would proudly purify my walls with such beauty!
OT sorry. Not long now lads. I didn't know the Lieutenants can be taken as separate units, I am guessing it is the same with the Ancient? This is becoming more and more perfect for an Imperium army.
Also have GW stated the new faction is DG yet? If not, there was a comment suggesting what if the new faction was the Ecclesiarchy? A lot of the new art does have a lot of how shall we say......more spirited individuals.
Full on fanatic and sisters release, I think I may actually faint.
Some wear and tear here and there, leave off a rocked pod or two and it will look great.
Could we see it in Scythes of the Emperor Livery?
Scythes I think would look fantastic, and fluff wise I can see papa smurf reinforcing them after the 'little bug problem' they had That would take away from the character of the chapter but well GW gotta make a buck right and it's never stopped them before.
I LOVE this tank, I was wondering why the AC's didn't get grav rhinos as that's the one thing that really put me off of them. Now we know why.
MLaw wrote: I didn't look specifically at the missile pods but they must be absolute pants for them to be handed out on everything like candy..
To me it screams Rhino outline way more than it does Land Raider.. and I think it's a preview of what the new Rhino might also have in store as far as bulk... maybe..
The armaments.. are just insane. The number of weapons are what I would expect on a superheavy or a FW vehicle that's insane.. or maybe an ork vehicle.. but here we have it on a medium/large tank body. (mind you I'm not caught up on current stuff so my mindset is more along the lines of 4th/5th)
I'm seeing what looks like 2 missile pods above the doors, 2 on the turrets, one on the rear, possibly another one on the turret (the weird little 3 missile thing), a TL lascannon, I think another lascannon, a heavy stubber or bolter coaxial, and.. a punisher gatling cannon on a pintel? That can't be right.. Maybe it's an assault cannon..
That's a LOT of muscle.
I disagree, that is a land raider with grav.
Anyway, I don't like it, for a few reasons. I don't like the grav plates, I don't like them on a lot of things but they stick out too far for me.
Secondly, I don't like the departure from the fluff. I used to like Eldar having the grav tanks, I didn't like but accepted Tau having grav tanks as well but this is too far for me.
Someone posted the original grav tank already.. which this appears to be a further mark of.. BUT.. FW has had Imperial Grav Tanks for a while and moreover, Dark Angels have had the Darkshroud.. which is an upscaled Land Speeder with a bunch of guns.. IE.. a grav tank. Your angst seems unfounded IMO. EDIT: Before someone chimes in.. yes I know the original grav tank was a deodorant stick with bits.. but it had stats in the official list.
Anyway, I don't like it, for a few reasons. I don't like the grav plates, I don't like them on a lot of things but they stick out too far for me.
Secondly, I don't like the departure from the fluff. I used to like Eldar having the grav tanks, I didn't like but accepted Tau having grav tanks as well but this is too far for me.
I don't like it either. It looks too much like they took a landraider hull and hammered random bits from other models (land speeder, predator etc) all over it and to me looks disjointed and jumbled mess. So definitely a miss.
A shame considering the quality of the boxed Nurgle miniatures.
LTs are seperate units like Ancients, but they're also characters, something I don't recall if it applies to Ancients.
Ministorum seems to be a separate faction from Sisters (makes sense as they work with both Sisters and the Guard), but that really doesn't mean much other than usage of keywords to prevent rules from bleeding from one sub-faction to the other.
aka_mythos wrote: That turret is too busy and the hull could be better.
like this (from reddit)
Spoiler:
I like this. Looks sleek and functional.
I really hope there is a less overgunned version of this tank which will look something like this.
As I said before, it's not just the looks. Primaris marines (super annoyingly and super transparently as a selling gimmick) cannot use normal marine transports. But with all these weapons I'd expect this tank to be at least 300 points. That's really not a feasible general use transport option.
I'm just waiting for Imperial Jetbikes to come back and someone flip out about how there's no precedence for such a thing and how absurd it is.. lulz http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Jetbike
I mean other than the FW, 30k, or Sammael examples
Frankly, it needs less missile pods.
That's saying something, coming from a Tau player.
The turret, cupola and the co-axial systems are really cool, but there are too many random missile pods that look forced on.
It would appear the Imperium is now comparing design notes with Cobra.
HO-LY-gak! I missed one day of posts and this .... thing comes up. W....T....F ... is... that!?
LOL, looks like a garbage bin on snow sleds!
Though I have to say that the photoshoped version without the turret is really nice looking.
I mean other than the FW, 30k, or Sammael examples
You just know jetbikes will come back one day... GW needs a constant stream of Space Marine releases so it has to take the distinguishing concepts of every other army and create a Space Marine translation.
I like this tank, it is beautiful (especially without the marine out of the turret).
However, it doesn't have the 40k look. Way too modern,like something we could have. Sci-fi but not grimdark.
ClockworkZion wrote: LTs are seperate units like Ancients, but they're also characters, something I don't recall if it applies to Ancients.
Ministorum seems to be a separate faction from Sisters (makes sense as they work with both Sisters and the Guard), but that really doesn't mean much other than usage of keywords to prevent rules from bleeding from one sub-faction to the other.
The FOC is gone right so the LT's won't take up HQ slots or anything anymore?
I mean other than the FW, 30k, or Sammael examples
You just know jetbikes will come back one day... GW needs a constant stream of Space Marine releases so it has to take the distinguishing concepts of every other army and create a Space Marine translation.
Yes, because bringing back Crusade era tech is stealing new ideas from other armies.
godardc wrote: I like this tank, it is beautiful (especially without the marine out of the turret). However, it doesn't have the 40k look. Way too modern,like something we could have. Sci-fi but not grimdark.
I felt the same way about rhinos honestly.. and land speeders.. so mine are covered in bits from the CoD sprues and books and scrolls and gak
EDIT: and just wait for the FW door kits.. slap those on and bam.. instant grimdark
ClockworkZion wrote: LTs are seperate units like Ancients, but they're also characters, something I don't recall if it applies to Ancients.
Ministorum seems to be a separate faction from Sisters (makes sense as they work with both Sisters and the Guard), but that really doesn't mean much other than usage of keywords to prevent rules from bleeding from one sub-faction to the other.
The FOC is gone right so the LT's won't take up HQ slots or anything anymore?
Where the heck did you get that idea? We have SEVERAL FoCs to choose from to build armies with, and everything has a slot.
It looks good in a solid colour. And I have to admit, I do like how it's moving away from sponsons and to a more modern set up. If this means that marines are getting 'modern spec' hover tanks whilst the IG stick with 'old spec' tracked/wheeled vehicles then I'm ok with that.
Is there a place were one can try photoshopping it? I would love to try out a few colours sechemes on it. Or if a particularly charitable dakkanaught would do it for me I'd be really grateful.
MLaw wrote: I didn't look specifically at the missile pods but they must be absolute pants for them to be handed out on everything like candy..
To me it screams Rhino outline way more than it does Land Raider.. and I think it's a preview of what the new Rhino might also have in store as far as bulk... maybe..
The armaments.. are just insane. The number of weapons are what I would expect on a superheavy or a FW vehicle that's insane.. or maybe an ork vehicle.. but here we have it on a medium/large tank body. (mind you I'm not caught up on current stuff so my mindset is more along the lines of 4th/5th)
I'm seeing what looks like 2 missile pods above the doors, 2 on the turrets, one on the rear, possibly another one on the turret (the weird little 3 missile thing), a TL lascannon, I think another lascannon, a heavy stubber or bolter coaxial, and.. a punisher gatling cannon on a pintel? That can't be right.. Maybe it's an assault cannon..
That's a LOT of muscle.
I disagree, that is a land raider with grav.
Anyway, I don't like it, for a few reasons. I don't like the grav plates, I don't like them on a lot of things but they stick out too far for me.
Secondly, I don't like the departure from the fluff. I used to like Eldar having the grav tanks, I didn't like but accepted Tau having grav tanks as well but this is too far for me.
Someone posted the original grav tank already.. which this appears to be a further mark of.. BUT.. FW has had Imperial Grav Tanks for a while and moreover, Dark Angels have had the Darkshroud.. which is an upscaled Land Speeder with a bunch of guns.. IE.. a grav tank. Your angst seems unfounded IMO.
EDIT: Before someone chimes in.. yes I know the original grav tank was a deodorant stick with bits.. but it had stats in the official list.
Some of us like the backwards, degraded Imperium that could no longer produce such technology, so just churned out lemun russ after lemun russ that was brutal with a complete lack of elegance but was such a hard nosed bastard it could run on nearly any fuel.
Ooh that Repulsor looks just like the sci-fi tanks I would doodle as a kid, all straight lines and covered in guns. I love it
Assuming this is the Primaris Razorback equivalent, will we see more variations along the lines of the Rhino chassis? With there squads capped at five(so far) they probably wouldn't need a version with a larger transport capacity. But a Predator equivalent with side sponsons and heavier turret would be cool. Or possibly something in the same style as the Sicaran Venator with the main gun built into the body?
MLaw wrote: I didn't look specifically at the missile pods but they must be absolute pants for them to be handed out on everything like candy..
To me it screams Rhino outline way more than it does Land Raider.. and I think it's a preview of what the new Rhino might also have in store as far as bulk... maybe..
The armaments.. are just insane. The number of weapons are what I would expect on a superheavy or a FW vehicle that's insane.. or maybe an ork vehicle.. but here we have it on a medium/large tank body. (mind you I'm not caught up on current stuff so my mindset is more along the lines of 4th/5th)
I'm seeing what looks like 2 missile pods above the doors, 2 on the turrets, one on the rear, possibly another one on the turret (the weird little 3 missile thing), a TL lascannon, I think another lascannon, a heavy stubber or bolter coaxial, and.. a punisher gatling cannon on a pintel? That can't be right.. Maybe it's an assault cannon..
That's a LOT of muscle.
I disagree, that is a land raider with grav.
Anyway, I don't like it, for a few reasons. I don't like the grav plates, I don't like them on a lot of things but they stick out too far for me.
Secondly, I don't like the departure from the fluff. I used to like Eldar having the grav tanks, I didn't like but accepted Tau having grav tanks as well but this is too far for me.
Someone posted the original grav tank already.. which this appears to be a further mark of.. BUT.. FW has had Imperial Grav Tanks for a while and moreover, Dark Angels have had the Darkshroud.. which is an upscaled Land Speeder with a bunch of guns.. IE.. a grav tank. Your angst seems unfounded IMO.
EDIT: Before someone chimes in.. yes I know the original grav tank was a deodorant stick with bits.. but it had stats in the official list.
Some of us like the backwards, degraded Imperium that could no longer produce such technology, so just churned out lemun russ after lemun russ that was brutal with a complete lack of elegance but was such a hard nosed bastard it could run on nearly any fuel.
I'm just hoping this all leads to the Imperium being screwed over even harder than before while Chaos gets all the new toys for themselves (likely by Cawl pulling a Horus later on).
Some of us like the backwards, degraded Imperium that could no longer produce such technology, so just churned out lemun russ after lemun russ that was brutal with a complete lack of elegance but was such a hard nosed bastard it could run on nearly any fuel.
I'm just hoping this all leads to the Imperium being screwed over even harder than before while Chaos gets all the new toys for themselves (likely by Cawl pulling a Horus later on).
I feel like Cypher has a role to play. Especially since he doesn't appear to be in the Imperium books? Or did I miss him?
Some of us like the backwards, degraded Imperium that could no longer produce such technology, so just churned out lemun russ after lemun russ that was brutal with a complete lack of elegance but was such a hard nosed bastard it could run on nearly any fuel.
I'm just hoping this all leads to the Imperium being screwed over even harder than before while Chaos gets all the new toys for themselves (likely by Cawl pulling a Horus later on).
I feel like Cypher has a role to play. Especially since he doesn't appear to be in the Imperium books? Or did I miss him?
Cypher and the Fallen are filed with the Heretic Astartes, though they do have the Imperium and Chaos keywords.
Some of us like the backwards, degraded Imperium that could no longer produce such technology, so just churned out lemun russ after lemun russ that was brutal with a complete lack of elegance but was such a hard nosed bastard it could run on nearly any fuel.
I'm just hoping this all leads to the Imperium being screwed over even harder than before while Chaos gets all the new toys for themselves (likely by Cawl pulling a Horus later on).
I feel like Cypher has a role to play. Especially since he doesn't appear to be in the Imperium books? Or did I miss him?
ClockworkZion wrote: LTs are seperate units like Ancients, but they're also characters, something I don't recall if it applies to Ancients.
Ministorum seems to be a separate faction from Sisters (makes sense as they work with both Sisters and the Guard), but that really doesn't mean much other than usage of keywords to prevent rules from bleeding from one sub-faction to the other.
The FOC is gone right so the LT's won't take up HQ slots or anything anymore?
Where the heck did you get that idea? We have SEVERAL FoCs to choose from to build armies with, and everything has a slot.
I'm just hoping this all leads to the Imperium being screwed over even harder than before while Chaos gets all the new toys for themselves (likely by Cawl pulling a Horus later on).
I feel like Cypher has a role to play. Especially since he doesn't appear to be in the Imperium books? Or did I miss him?
He,s in the Chaos book along with the Fallen. Probably to represent his offical "Renegade" status. He has both the Imperium and Chaos Keywords along with the Fallen keyword (DA reroll melee hits against Fallen units) but no ATSKNF or DTTFE.
If I recall my lore correctly there was word that he might have the Emperor's sword and was on his way to Terra to deliver it but seeing as Guilliman has the Burning Blade and oreviously any chump Marine with access to relics could have it, I'm going to guess that he has the Lion's personal sword instead.
And with how mysterious Cypher is...well a lot of things are possible. Pushing Cawl over to Chaos seems too overt for the character though.
I'm not even holding hopes for getting the limited edition but I am desperate for that art book that comes with it. Bit disappointed if it only comes with the limited edition.
I guess it will go up for pre-order with UK's lot? Unless there is a certain number for each region or something.
soulforged wrote: At what time will the pre order be available? For the limited book, it will be available through all the stores/countries or just in the main one?
I don't know the exact start time, but given that they will only have 2000 of them, I expect the total time of availability to about a minute and a half.
One thing iv not spotted in the rules is what counts within? E.g. get out of a transport within 3" is that 0.1 inch of your base is within 3 or all of your base.
Latro_ wrote: One thing iv not spotted in the rules is what counts within? E.g. get out of a transport within 3" is that 0.1 inch of your base is within 3 or all of your base.
Yeah I was searching for that. I didn't see anything about getting in or getting out of transports.
Latro_ wrote: One thing iv not spotted in the rules is what counts within? E.g. get out of a transport within 3" is that 0.1 inch of your base is within 3 or all of your base.
You have to be "within 3" of the transport and "not within 1" of the enemy, so since we understand that to mean that no part of your base is within 1 of the enemy, then it should be that some part of your base must be within 3 of the transport.
insaniak wrote: Not a fan of the tank. It's a flying land raider with missiles jammed on anywhere there's a flat space. Lazy design and ugly end result.
Agreed. It reminds me of those awful FASA Star Trek kitbashes where they just took elements from existing Starfleet ships and mashed them together in different configurations, then occasionally did some crude lineart over the top.
Also, what happened to the whole "the Imperium's knowledge of military grav-tech is almost gone, hence why only Marines get Land Speeders, and even they get nothing more than those" thing? Bellisarius "massive bloody Heretek" Cawl to the rescue again I assume. You know it's actually impressive: I never thought GW would manage to make me look back fondly at the Centurion or Chibihawk releases, but at least with those they tried to work them in to the existing setting - it wasn't ideal by any means, but "nah nah nah, they've always been there, just off the screen to the left there, honest" was at least better than "Technological regression and ritualised ignorance? Never heard of it chief, we're makin' flyin' Land Raiders over here.".
By contrast the idea that the 40K version of the General's Handbook concept might also have content in the same vein as the old Chapter Approved annuals is a fantastic idea that really makes the idea of buying a rules update every bloody year somewhat more tolerable.
Polonius wrote: I like that they're finally changing the idea that the Imperium relies entirely on old and dwindling technology. Not only does it strain credibility (pragamatism wins out over dogma over time), it also creates a dead end for new imperium models. there are only so many variants to current kits, and nobody seemed like to shoehorning in brand new units (like Centurions) by pretending they've been used the whole time.
For the first time, really ever, 40k is a more dynamic universe. That's a good thing for us as collectors and hobbyists.
And for those that say that GW should stop making Astartes kits, and make stuff for other factions: I can only assume that GW knows what sells, and caters to that. Like it or not, the collective affection for power army basically makes 40k a viable game. You know GW makes a ton more on every SM frame than anything they make for DE or AM. So, the extent that people buying space marines brings me new toys, I say, huzzah!
I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.
There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.
Latro_ wrote: One thing iv not spotted in the rules is what counts within? E.g. get out of a transport within 3" is that 0.1 inch of your base is within 3 or all of your base.
You have to be "within 3" of the transport and "not within 1" of the enemy, so since we understand that to mean that no part of your base is within 1 of the enemy, then it should be that some part of your base must be within 3 of the transport.
Can you tell me where in the rules it says that so I can point to it when I exit rhinos from the front?
Some wear and tear here and there, leave off a rocked pod or two and it will look great.
Could we see it in Scythes of the Emperor Livery?
Scythes I think would look fantastic, and fluff wise I can see papa smurf reinforcing them after the 'little bug problem' they had That would take away from the character of the chapter but well GW gotta make a buck right and it's never stopped them before.
I LOVE this tank, I was wondering why the AC's didn't get grav rhinos as that's the one thing that really put me off of them. Now we know why.
Your post slipped by me, but yeah I think it would look great in the Black and Yellow. And that's pretty much my thought about starting the Scythes is they'd be prefect to be reinforced, and I think they could work some of their new eccentricities in, teaching the new guys their ways of dealing with bugs.
Latro_ wrote: One thing iv not spotted in the rules is what counts within? E.g. get out of a transport within 3" is that 0.1 inch of your base is within 3 or all of your base.
You have to be "within 3" of the transport and "not within 1" of the enemy, so since we understand that to mean that no part of your base is within 1 of the enemy, then it should be that some part of your base must be within 3 of the transport.
Can you tell me where in the rules it says that so I can point to it when I exit rhinos from the front?
Polonius wrote: I like that they're finally changing the idea that the Imperium relies entirely on old and dwindling technology. Not only does it strain credibility (pragamatism wins out over dogma over time), it also creates a dead end for new imperium models. there are only so many variants to current kits, and nobody seemed like to shoehorning in brand new units (like Centurions) by pretending they've been used the whole time.
For the first time, really ever, 40k is a more dynamic universe. That's a good thing for us as collectors and hobbyists.
And for those that say that GW should stop making Astartes kits, and make stuff for other factions: I can only assume that GW knows what sells, and caters to that. Like it or not, the collective affection for power army basically makes 40k a viable game. You know GW makes a ton more on every SM frame than anything they make for DE or AM. So, the extent that people buying space marines brings me new toys, I say, huzzah!
I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.
There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.
that's a fair point, but I think you can decouple technological advances (or lack thereof) from a societies stagnation or terminal decline. The Roman Empire's military evolved even as the society collapsed beneath it. I don't think that having slightly better marines is going to save the imperium, and I don't think it changes the unceasing grim dark of the setting to have Roboute Gulliman actually trying to help. If anything, this could set up even greater, swifter collapse. I think you can like things changing on the margins, and still like the setting.
The cold reality is that GW isn't making money telling a story. It's making money selling models, and making yet another iteration of Tactical Squads is not going to produce sales. Genuinely new power armor will. I wish people were as excited about new Xenos, but GW is giving people what they want.
I mean other than the FW, 30k, or Sammael examples
You just know jetbikes will come back one day... GW needs a constant stream of Space Marine releases so it has to take the distinguishing concepts of every other army and create a Space Marine translation.
Yes, because bringing back Crusade era tech is stealing new ideas from other armies.
That isn't what I said. Lets not act like the history of the games development never happened. In Rogue Trader, every army and race had everything... eldar could have bolters and lasguns and space marines could use a shuriken catapult... and yes they had jetbikes. GW can use whatever rationale they want, but since 2nd edition games workshop has put a lot of energy into making the different armies and races have a distinctive character. A strong part of that distinctive character came from what combination of these different concepts each race could and couldn't have access to. For Space Marines more than any other faction, GW has greatly expanded the preexisting concepts distinctive of other armies and incorporated them into Space Marines. That dilutes the uniqueness of what other factions have and diminishes an aspect of 40k that separates it from other games. There is an aspect of asymmetric balance to the game that is also eroded.
So yes while its an intentionally convenient element of the background that they can pull lost technology back out of the anals-of-history... lets not pretend it isn't anything other than it is, product development. In a number of instances I think its been lazy when they do make units that directly compare to the concepts of other armies, they can be frustrating, particularly to anyone playing those other factions. That laziness diminishes a component of distinctiveness and the esteem of the other armies and the people who play those armies.
Maybe the redundancy isn't intentional but it is a direct consequence of needing to release a steady stream of space marine products. To carry space marines on indefinitely they will inevitably end up hitting upon jetbikes again.
Something interesting in the matched play game - they said that everything that was deathguard (including a defiler) gets disgustingly resilient - I don't see that in the rules, but they could be talking about the rules in their codex.
Polonius wrote: I like that they're finally changing the idea that the Imperium relies entirely on old and dwindling technology. Not only does it strain credibility (pragamatism wins out over dogma over time), it also creates a dead end for new imperium models. there are only so many variants to current kits, and nobody seemed like to shoehorning in brand new units (like Centurions) by pretending they've been used the whole time.
For the first time, really ever, 40k is a more dynamic universe. That's a good thing for us as collectors and hobbyists.
And for those that say that GW should stop making Astartes kits, and make stuff for other factions: I can only assume that GW knows what sells, and caters to that. Like it or not, the collective affection for power army basically makes 40k a viable game. You know GW makes a ton more on every SM frame than anything they make for DE or AM. So, the extent that people buying space marines brings me new toys, I say, huzzah!
I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.
There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.
that's a fair point, but I think you can decouple technological advances (or lack thereof) from a societies stagnation or terminal decline. The Roman Empire's military evolved even as the society collapsed beneath it. I don't think that having slightly better marines is going to save the imperium, and I don't think it changes the unceasing grim dark of the setting to have Roboute Gulliman actually trying to help. If anything, this could set up even greater, swifter collapse. I think you can like things changing on the margins, and still like the setting.
The cold reality is that GW isn't making money telling a story. It's making money selling models, and making yet another iteration of Tactical Squads is not going to produce sales. Genuinely new power armor will. I wish people were as excited about new Xenos, but GW is giving people what they want.
note: read this in Cartman's voice in your head.. the tone of my post will make more sense that way.. This is why I don't understand the angst towards the "new" technology.. Yes, they may have lost the old STCs and it's humorous and cynical to think they're too stupid or rigid to take what exists and modify it.. EXCEPT.. that they keep doing just that anyway. You've got landspeeders, boarding ships for outer space, gunships that can hover in place, jetbikes (at least the one), jump packs, teleportation, plasma energy, chainsaw swords and power swords, genetic manipulation and a sophisticated armor and weapon system for marines, a literal walking/fighting coffin.. cyborgs, titans (they are giant freaking robots.. with.. void shields!).. I mean .. at some point the guys whose sole job is to create gak for the Imperium have got to look at this stuff and the badass tanks Eldar and Tau are using.. or even the Monolith and think.. "man.. that's pretty sick.. we should totally do that".
I mean other than the FW, 30k, or Sammael examples
You just know jetbikes will come back one day... GW needs a constant stream of Space Marine releases so it has to take the distinguishing concepts of every other army and create a Space Marine translation.
Yes, because bringing back Crusade era tech is stealing new ideas from other armies.
That isn't what I said. Lets not act like the history of the games development never happened. In Rogue Trader, every army and race had everything... eldar could have bolters and lasguns and space marines could use a shuriken catapult... and yes they had jetbikes. GW can use whatever rationale they want, but since 2nd edition games workshop has put a lot of energy into making the different armies and races have a distinctive character. A strong part of that distinctive character came from what combination of these different concepts each race could and couldn't have access to. For Space Marines more than any other faction, GW has greatly expanded the preexisting concepts distinctive of other armies and incorporated them into Space Marines. That dilutes the uniqueness of what other factions have and diminishes an aspect of 40k that separates it from other games. There is an aspect of asymmetric balance to the game that is also eroded.
So yes while its an intentionally convenient element of the background that they can pull lost technology back out of the anals-of-history... lets not pretend it isn't anything other than it is, product development. In a number of instances I think its been lazy when they do make units that directly compare to the concepts of other armies, they can be frustrating, particularly to anyone playing those other factions. That laziness diminishes a component of distinctiveness and the esteem of the other armies and the people who play those armies.
Maybe the redundancy isn't intentional but it is a direct consequence of needing to release a steady stream of space marine products. To carry space marines on indefinitely they will inevitably end up hitting upon jetbikes again.
So lemme get this right.. Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, Necrons, Custodes and I think even Orks too tbh can all have hover tanks.. and that's fine but the second Space Marines get them some line has been crossed that completely blurs the distinctions between the armies? I'm struggling with this one..
Also EDIT: Jetbikes spans that same list.. exactly.. I think.. actually I am not entirely sure what those things Necrons have are but they hover dammit..
Polonius wrote: I like that they're finally changing the idea that the Imperium relies entirely on old and dwindling technology. Not only does it strain credibility (pragamatism wins out over dogma over time), it also creates a dead end for new imperium models. there are only so many variants to current kits, and nobody seemed like to shoehorning in brand new units (like Centurions) by pretending they've been used the whole time.
For the first time, really ever, 40k is a more dynamic universe. That's a good thing for us as collectors and hobbyists.
And for those that say that GW should stop making Astartes kits, and make stuff for other factions: I can only assume that GW knows what sells, and caters to that. Like it or not, the collective affection for power army basically makes 40k a viable game. You know GW makes a ton more on every SM frame than anything they make for DE or AM. So, the extent that people buying space marines brings me new toys, I say, huzzah!
I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.
There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.
that's a fair point, but I think you can decouple technological advances (or lack thereof) from a societies stagnation or terminal decline. The Roman Empire's military evolved even as the society collapsed beneath it. I don't think that having slightly better marines is going to save the imperium, and I don't think it changes the unceasing grim dark of the setting to have Roboute Gulliman actually trying to help. If anything, this could set up even greater, swifter collapse. I think you can like things changing on the margins, and still like the setting.
The cold reality is that GW isn't making money telling a story. It's making money selling models, and making yet another iteration of Tactical Squads is not going to produce sales. Genuinely new power armor will. I wish people were as excited about new Xenos, but GW is giving people what they want.
I think GW's out, in this instances, is that these new technologies are a consequence of Guilliman and Cawl who are both in different ways "men" out of time. Guilliman is practically a time traveler and Cawl has been working for over 10,000 years to develop these technologies. They are thus able to think and act in a way that frees their characters from the cultural decline and orthodoxy that has crippled the Imperium's advances in the setting. The setting is still a dystopia with humanity trapped in orthodoxy and hubris where Guilliman is still seen as a demi-god, and not the genetically engineered abominations the primarchs actually are. The Imperium is still in decline and if anything is worse off. If we think of the setting, the story of the Imperium as this stagnation and decline of humanity, this may well be the "last hooray"... what happens when the best and last hope of humanity fails. What if the narrative is that even demi-gods can't save the Imperium. It serves to punctuate on much this society has failed.
Latro_ wrote: One thing iv not spotted in the rules is what counts within? E.g. get out of a transport within 3" is that 0.1 inch of your base is within 3 or all of your base.
Given that they specifiy for bubble effects that units need to be 'completely within' for an effect, being partially within is fine. Being partially within 3 inches is still being within 3 inches
I need that hovertank pronto! After being very disappointed by the new dreadnought I wasn't expecting much but that is just perfect.
I may remove the turret to make it look more streamlined but that would be all as the rest just exudes space marine from every panel. I wish the people that designed this had been around to fix the first marine flyers...
Yodhrin wrote: I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.
There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.
Y'know, I don't think you get to define how others are supposed to process, enjoy, or find meaning in some given material. You may have your own way that you perceive it and engage with it, but that has ZERO importance to how anyone else does the same. I feel like you struggle MIGHTILY with this basic concept.
Your statement above is full of personal opinion. Other individuals might point to to seeds of hope planted in the 40K background, such as the possible resurrection of the Emperor and/or his Primarchs (themes in the background since RT), or the existence of the Tau. You may choose to dismiss them or fit them into your view of the background in a different way. But others may be attracted to those concepts and find them important in the way they experience the background. And to them, the return of Guilliman, etc. aren't paradigm-shifting events but a gentle breeze being applied to small embers of hope.
I really like the repulser. It looks great. Thow like some said the turret is a little cluttered looking. But it still looks really cool to me..it's a imperium grav tank that still uses a lot of the same design cues as the rest of the imperiuem's tanks. It looks like a scicarian on grav suspension. I love it.
aka_mythos wrote: I think GW's out, in this instances, is that these new technologies are a consequence of Guilliman and Cawl who are both in different ways "men" out of time. Guilliman is practically a time traveler and Cawl has been working for over 10,000 years to develop these technologies. They are thus able to think and act in a way that frees their characters from the cultural decline and orthodoxy that has crippled the Imperium's advances in the setting. The setting is still a dystopia with humanity trapped in orthodoxy and hubris where Guilliman is still seen as a demi-god, and not the genetically engineered abominations the primarchs actually are. The Imperium is still in decline and if anything is worse off. If we think of the setting, the story of the Imperium as this stagnation and decline of humanity, this may well be the "last hooray"... what happens when the best and last hope of humanity fails. What if the narrative is that even demi-gods can't save the Imperium. It serves to punctuate on much this society has failed.
It also preserves the real grimdark of the setting: is the Imperium even worth saving? Or are attempts to preserve it simply delaying humanities renaissance?
aka_mythos wrote: I think GW's out, in this instances, is that these new technologies are a consequence of Guilliman and Cawl who are both in different ways "men" out of time. Guilliman is practically a time traveler and Cawl has been working for over 10,000 years to develop these technologies. They are thus able to think and act in a way that frees their characters from the cultural decline and orthodoxy that has crippled the Imperium's advances in the setting. The setting is still a dystopia with humanity trapped in orthodoxy and hubris where Guilliman is still seen as a demi-god, and not the genetically engineered abominations the primarchs actually are. The Imperium is still in decline and if anything is worse off. If we think of the setting, the story of the Imperium as this stagnation and decline of humanity, this may well be the "last hooray"... what happens when the best and last hope of humanity fails. What if the narrative is that even demi-gods can't save the Imperium. It serves to punctuate on much this society has failed.
It also preserves the real grimdark of the setting: is the Imperium even worth saving? Or are attempts to preserve it simply delaying humanities renaissance?
also, maybe the loss of the STCs was a lie? Maybe the Imperium realized that the resources needed to maintain that level of technology were unsustainable.. ..or Maybe there was fear that such devices would fall into the hands of Chaos or rebellious territories and the tech was hidden out of fear. TBH that makes waaay more sense to me. ..or Maybe the primarchs disappeared with the STCs to protect them.. really this could be combined with the above theory.
aka_mythos wrote: I think GW's out, in this instances, is that these new technologies are a consequence of Guilliman and Cawl who are both in different ways "men" out of time. Guilliman is practically a time traveler and Cawl has been working for over 10,000 years to develop these technologies. They are thus able to think and act in a way that frees their characters from the cultural decline and orthodoxy that has crippled the Imperium's advances in the setting. The setting is still a dystopia with humanity trapped in orthodoxy and hubris where Guilliman is still seen as a demi-god, and not the genetically engineered abominations the primarchs actually are. The Imperium is still in decline and if anything is worse off. If we think of the setting, the story of the Imperium as this stagnation and decline of humanity, this may well be the "last hooray"... what happens when the best and last hope of humanity fails. What if the narrative is that even demi-gods can't save the Imperium. It serves to punctuate on much this society has failed.
It also preserves the real grimdark of the setting: is the Imperium even worth saving? Or are attempts to preserve it simply delaying humanities renaissance?
also, maybe the loss of the STCs was a lie? Maybe the Imperium realized that the resources needed to maintain that level of technology were unsustainable..
..or
Maybe there was fear that such devices would fall into the hands of Chaos or rebellious territories and the tech was hidden out of fear. TBH that makes waaay more sense to me.
..or
Maybe the primarchs disappeared with the STCs to protect them.. really this could be combined with the above theory.
The two lost legions fled with the SCTs because they contained the plans for female space marines.
Like I said, GW seriously needs a guy whose job is to go around the sculptors' offices and tell them to stop adding more guns to whatever they're working on.
OgreChubbs wrote: So it is like a hovercraft? The tech to make DA jetbikes is gone but they make hover tanks?
Yes.. ?
Yeah, see, this monstrosity here? This is when I stopped playing. Not because it was crazy OP or anything but more because it's everything the naysayers have been calling the Repulsor, and then some. And don't get me started on the jet fighter with a stone freakin' shrine built into the hull.
Compared to the gak that's apparently already passed muster, ripping the tracks off a Land Raider and bolting grave plates on instead is positively sensible.
lord_blackfang wrote: Like I said, GW seriously needs a guy whose job is to go around the sculptors' offices and tell them to stop adding more guns to whatever they're working on.
aka_mythos wrote: I think GW's out, in this instances, is that these new technologies are a consequence of Guilliman and Cawl who are both in different ways "men" out of time. Guilliman is practically a time traveler and Cawl has been working for over 10,000 years to develop these technologies. They are thus able to think and act in a way that frees their characters from the cultural decline and orthodoxy that has crippled the Imperium's advances in the setting. The setting is still a dystopia with humanity trapped in orthodoxy and hubris where Guilliman is still seen as a demi-god, and not the genetically engineered abominations the primarchs actually are. The Imperium is still in decline and if anything is worse off. If we think of the setting, the story of the Imperium as this stagnation and decline of humanity, this may well be the "last hooray"... what happens when the best and last hope of humanity fails. What if the narrative is that even demi-gods can't save the Imperium. It serves to punctuate on much this society has failed.
It also preserves the real grimdark of the setting: is the Imperium even worth saving? Or are attempts to preserve it simply delaying humanities renaissance?
also, maybe the loss of the STCs was a lie? Maybe the Imperium realized that the resources needed to maintain that level of technology were unsustainable..
..or
Maybe there was fear that such devices would fall into the hands of Chaos or rebellious territories and the tech was hidden out of fear. TBH that makes waaay more sense to me.
..or
Maybe the primarchs disappeared with the STCs to protect them.. really this could be combined with the above theory.
The two lost legions fled with the SCTs because they contained the plans for female space marines.
You heard it here first.
And thus the line between Space Marine and Stormcast gets ever blurrier. Not that I'm against female Marines, but can something be a bit different.
To be fair to Yodhrin, they are seemingly moving away from grimdark, a move I certainly wouldn't call. All the attraction to playing Guard and Marines to an extent is lost when it's all "Oh, the Imperium is making a comeback, even though there's only 1 Primarch compared to several like in the Great Crusade. But hey, look at these new Marines to save everyone!". Fighting against unwinnable odds is what drawn me to my Crimson Fists, but now the grimdark is loosening up, the Fists may as well be just another Chapter.
So lemme get this right.. Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, Necrons, Custodes and I think even Orks too tbh can all have hover tanks.. and that's fine but the second Space Marines get them some line has been crossed that completely blurs the distinctions between the armies? I'm struggling with this one..
Also EDIT: Jetbikes spans that same list.. exactly.. I think.. actually I am not entirely sure what those things Necrons have are but they hover dammit..
You're making the case for me. Like I said its the different combinations of concepts that help to create the character of different factions. What each faction doesn't have is just as important as what they do have. IIf a defining trait of space marines relative to others is that they don't presently have jetbike technology when everyone else does, and then you give them that technology it is no longer a point of distinction. Each is unique in the combination of what they have, when a trait is defined by uniquely being absent adding those things and removing that unique absence creates a exponential decline in uniqueness with each reused concept. It is a question of whether you want that kind of substantive quality or just different veneers. Think about how its defined space marines the last 6 editions; the limitations of the Imperium means they can only produce land speeders and not jetbikes as they can't make the technology any more compact, or whatever.
I think this is a consequence of GW's dev team organization, there is a space marine team and there is a 40k team covering the rest, with people being shuffled between the two.... the mentality is that to the same degree they see "40k "as a product, they see "Space Marines" at that same level. At times they are put at odds where the quality of "40k" is compromised for the sake of "Space Marines."
For those who prefer the stagnant Imperium, there are links in the OP about the "Dark Imperium". The galaxy is in half, we have both a progressive and regressive imperium at the same time.
All information in the OP.
Please take further discussion of this topic to a general thread. You shouldnt have to wait for a mod to hand you a warning, they have a hard enough time keeping this thread in check.
So lemme get this right.. Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, Necrons, Custodes and I think even Orks too tbh can all have hover tanks.. and that's fine but the second Space Marines get them some line has been crossed that completely blurs the distinctions between the armies? I'm struggling with this one..
Also EDIT: Jetbikes spans that same list.. exactly.. I think.. actually I am not entirely sure what those things Necrons have are but they hover dammit..
You're making the case for me. Like I said its the different combinations of concepts that help to create the character of different factions. What each faction doesn't have is just as important as what they do have. IIf a defining trait of space marines relative to others is that they don't presently have jetbike technology when everyone else does, and then you give them that technology it is no longer a point of distinction. Each is unique in the combination of what they have, when a trait is defined by uniquely being absent adding those things and removing that unique absence creates a exponential decline in uniqueness with each reused concept. It is a question of whether you want that kind of substantive quality or just different veneers. Think about how its defined space marines the last 6 editions; the limitations of the Imperium means they can only produce land speeders and not jetbikes as they can't make the technology any more compact, or whatever.
I think this is a consequence of GW's dev team organization, there is a space marine team and there is a 40k team covering the rest, with people being shuffled between the two.... the mentality is that to the same degree they see "40k "as a product, they see "Space Marines" at that same level. At times they are put at odds where the quality of "40k" is compromised for the sake of "Space Marines."
I think you're missing the point.. ALL OF THOSE ARMIES have hover tanks and yet are somehow different. It's not the equipment that defines the army. "Hover Tank" is a classification of a vehicle and doesn't differ in any way than the fact that each army has some sort of basic combat rifle or projectile system and some form of infantry. Your assertion is the equivalent of exclaiming that any army with power armor must automatically be exactly like the Space Marines. You're thinking in terms of entries in an army list (from how you're describing it) rather than what you're actually seeing. This flying brick that we're looking at is so stereotypical to canon that it looks like the old Thunderhawk (Epic) or Leviathan, or Land Raider, or Rhino.. it "looks" like it belongs in a Space Marine army.. The classification that it happens to have is irrelevant. Moreover, it IS a part of the Space Marine army so anyone with hangups on what should and shouldn't be produced by the company that actually gets to decide that is really just projecting the fan-fiction continuity of the 40k universe each of us has in our own heads onto everyone else. In my head, this happened ages ago. I've been so frustrated that GW took this long to put out a hovertank for imperial forces.
The part that is super laughable to me though.. is that you've been able to mix and match whatever you wanted so we get these Frankenstein's Monster lists that are mishmashes of Tau and Eldar and IG or whatever.. but somehow suddenly the backstory is important? This community
EDIT: That's my last bit on the subject as we've been kindly nudged to drop it
That (non-Cawl) tech thinking he could totally just bolt this thing onto that thing and produce a new thing is a HERETIC WHO'S BRAIN IS BEING EATEN BY CHAOS!!
Either that or he's dangerously ignorant of the machine spirits and needs to be recycled before he accidentally creates a new breed of biology detesting metal men.
Incidentally, Mars is awash with lost and ostensibly innaccessible technological marvels. Could be one of the tech diving parties managed to avoid being dissolved by some super evolved acid spitting carnivorous toaster long enough to sneak out a 7000 yr old Emperor approved reapplication of gravitic plates sticker.
40000 years of wild technology. Poking dragons with unapproved sticks will only end in more tears. Stupid unholy Xenos.
Another thing I'm not seeing is rules regarding who can go in a transport and when. E.g. could you just take ten blood letters and whack em in a landraider regardless of detachment
Anyway, getting this boat back on track, I'm thinking putting that Assault Cannon in a different place, maybe on the front left side of the Tank, or maybe taking it off all together. The missiles are mostly going to be removed, or at least moved to a less busy location. The ski/sleds are going to be taken off as well, but just the front bit with bars on. The rest of the metallic parts will be painted the same colour as the Chapter colours, as we've seen looks much better. That should be it for changes, though the kit I'm really excited for is the Land Raider Terminus Ultra to return - it has rules again in the Index Imperium 1, so a follow up kit must be in the works. Can't wait for the 8 Lascannon shots coming out of that thing!
Latro_ wrote: Another thing I'm not seeing is rules regarding who can go in a transport and when. E.g. could you just take ten blood letters and whack em in a landraider regardless of detachment
Each transport, so far, has said, specifically, which units it can transport by means of keywords. For example all Marine tanks so far specify that they can transport Space Marine Infantry but exclude Primaris marines.
Latro_ wrote: Another thing I'm not seeing is rules regarding who can go in a transport and when. E.g. could you just take ten blood letters and whack em in a landraider regardless of detachment
Each transport specifies what models it can carry. Usually ones it shares a <CHAPTER>, <LEGION>, <CRAFTWORLD>, <SQUAT BROTHERHOOD> etc. with.
The Primaris were designed 10,000 years ago along with their equipment and armor and kept in stasis, right? That would technically make them pre heresy.
Now the question is, does that mean every one else in the imperium gets a grav tank now? Or is Cawl just going to go "nuh uh, my tank. Get your own plans"
as Primaris cannot be transported by anything lese I guess this one will exclusive transport primaris
I mean future grav tank releases. Like an Imperial Guard grav tank, an admech grav tank, inquisitorial grav tank, etc etc.
I can see the Adeptus Mechanicus having grav tanks. And the Inquisition can use anything they damn well please.
The Guard? Not so much. The best I expect is them getting limited access to now-exclusive Marine units like Land Speeders. The plugs for the Forge World indexes mention that factions will have access to units that haven't been available to them previously.
Front the Community's Forge World page:
On top of that, several units will be made available to factions that never previously had access to them,
However, that can mean anything. I would love for the Guard to get new toys. And I would love for the Sisters to get more flame-spewing vehicles in their TO&E. I won't hold my breath, though.
Preorders arent up yet, although some elements have already been updated
Shouldn't be too long now, can't wait to see some of the 360 paintjobs. Hopefully everything goes up for pre order today including the dice so GW can attempt to react to any high demand that causes mass sell outs of accessories.
Quickly putting in the numbers, direct conversion means the Limited Edition is £476.94, or $615.01. I don't know how relevant this is considering how badly the Aussies get treated, but something to keep in mind. Seeing this, the £250 price tag seems quite accurate unfortunately. Poor Australia.
This guy has confirmed in twitter that the new Repulsor Tank as all the Primaris Line has been work of Jess Goodwin for about the last 4 years to make it with a consistent look about all of the Primaris Range.
Maybe thats why we can see so much "but this new dreadnought is the torso of one with the legs of the other..."
Plus, we can see here the ancestror of the Repulsor Tank
Now that I can see the miniatures in 360º the two ones that I didn't liked as much (The Gravis Captain and the Inceptors) look so much better.
The Inceptor looks like he is using his legs to "lead" himsellf to the front, using the thrusters in his legs, he doesn't look anymore as if he didn't know what to do with his legs.
Plus, the Lord of Contagion look SO much better with a slighly darker illumination
Lord Kragan wrote: Well... seems that GW wants gold plated trucks of cocaine again. What the hell...
It seems GW's MO these days is to price their regular products relatively reasonable/slightly expensive...and then hunt their whale customers like Moby Dick!
Lord Kragan wrote: Well... seems that GW wants gold plated trucks of cocaine again. What the hell...
It seems GW's MO these days is to price their regular products relatively reasonable/slightly expensive...and then hunt their whale customers like Moby Dick!
Its because Whales that the Free to play model exist.
The Primaris were designed 10,000 years ago along with their equipment and armor and kept in stasis, right? That would technically make them pre heresy.
With all due respect, I believe you are not truly understanding the meaning of the term "Pre-Heresy". It means, obviously, before the Heresy. You know, when Mk VI was the most advanced Power armour variant available... and was in testing phase.
Considering that Girlyman made the Primaris pre-order AFTER the Heresy was over and done with....
Now if you're talking about a hypothetical Girlyman Heresy...
I think that vehicle epitomises the concept of "Less is more". As others have so quickly shown, the more nonsense you remove from that vehicle's turret, the better it starts to look.
Rippy wrote: Pre-orders still not up on Aussie site
And won't be 'til midday. Same as always.
And I've ordered my Nurgle Marines already. Full set of the Nurgle guys from this box + 2 extra Blight Drones, then the Primaris Ancient and LT with the Sword (only Primaris models I like enough to own).
H.B.M.C. wrote: Woke up to see the Marines have a new Gravraider.
I think that vehicle epitomises the concept of "Less is more". As others have so quickly shown, the more nonsense you remove from that vehicle's turret, the better it starts to look.
Rippy wrote: Pre-orders still not up on Aussie site
And won't be 'til midday. Same as always.
And I've ordered my Nurgle Marines already. Full set of the Nurgle guys from this box + 2 extra Blight Drones, then the Primaris Ancient and LT with the Sword (only Primaris models I like enough to own).
I'm just glad I have custom bases already ready to go for my box
Someone else has probably noticed this already amongst other errors, but under the entry for Obliterators on the leaked chaos book the rules for strength, armour piercing and damage are listed as 6+D3, D3 & D3 respectively.
However the explanation for this system and the example given are wrong. It states in demonstration that "For example if the rolls were a 1, followed by a 3, followed by a 2, then that unit's attacks would have a Strength of 7, an AP of - 3, and a damage of 2 for that shooting phase or overwatch attack"
Spot the obvious mistake?
And with my pointless and extremely specific pedantry quota filled, I'm of to recharge.
Just got an email that Frontline Gaming will be doing an 8th Q&A tomorrow June 3rd, or talking about Twitch perfume.
Your 8th ed 40k questions answered!
Tune in at 10:00am PST to our Twitch Chanel!
Come and join Frankie and Reece for a live 8th ed 40k Q&A session as well as a live tutorial on how to play the game! Reece and Frankie will walk you through not only the mechanics of the game but answer your questions as well as provide tips and tactics on how to ramp up your skillset in the latest edition of Warhammer 40,000 as fast as possible!
Rippy wrote: I am going to be using Lord of Contagion as a counts as Typhus. Model is just too cool.
It wouldn't take much to convert his axe to a scythe, cut and smooth away the buzzsaws, add a bit of plasticard or some green stuff. I may have to get a second boxed-set at some point, just to mess around with.
Edit: Looks as if the bottom of his axe blade could be used as the tip of a scythe.
Gordon Shumway wrote: And here I thought you would have sat this one out H.B.C.M., considering all of your posts. Way to stick it to the man, you softy you.
I'm waiting with baited breath to hear how many boxes your fellow "I hate this" compatriots are buying. im not buying any, though I like the rules.
You're demonstrating a classic example of black and white thinking, the idea that one either can only 100% love or 100% hate something. Either that or you have a total lack of reading comprehension.
Where have I said I hated the miniatures? I've said since the start that I thought the new minis looked great, so I'm buying the minis. I said from the moment they were revealed that the objective markers were the coolest things about this release.
I've liked pretty much all of GW's recent miniature releases. 1KSons and AoS Tzeentch stuff? Mind-bendingly awesome. Skydorfs? Fantastic! Plastic BB stuff? Great. Shadow War Armageddon Terrain? Fething amazing! My fav thing GW have made in years. I'm very much awaiting the full Death Guard release, as what we've seen so far looks great.
I'm very happy with their miniature releases. The NuMarines just don't do anything for me (other than the Ancient and the LT with the Sword, hence the reason I bought them and only them).
H.B.M.C. wrote: Woke up to see the Marines have a new Gravraider.
I think that vehicle epitomises the concept of "Less is more". As others have so quickly shown, the more nonsense you remove from that vehicle's turret, the better it starts to look.
Rippy wrote: Pre-orders still not up on Aussie site
And won't be 'til midday. Same as always.
And I've ordered my Nurgle Marines already. Full set of the Nurgle guys from this box + 2 extra Blight Drones, then the Primaris Ancient and LT with the Sword (only Primaris models I like enough to own).
The objective markers are absolute gold! I preordered three, seriously considering three more.
The one man escape pod is the best bit, but the servitor-surgeon and operating table are pretty damn cool too. Massive kudos to Gw i recon.
That limited edition rulebook is lovely but the price is absolutely bonkers. You can buy 2 starter sets, all the index books, the novel, the dice and the objective markers for less.
Chikout wrote: That limited edition rulebook is lovely but the price is absolutely bonkers. You can buy 2 starter sets, all the index books, the novel, the dice and the objective markers for less.
Chikout wrote: That limited edition rulebook is lovely but the price is absolutely bonkers. You can buy 2 starter sets, all the index books, the novel, the dice and the objective markers for less.
Supposedly it will go for 250 pounds in the UK. So figure 300-350 US. That is a lot for some metal objectives and a fancy covered book. The artbook (from what little I saw) was all recycled stuff, but I did not see every page.
Nicorex wrote: Its 826 NZ dollars.. that works out to 590.16 in US currency.
Wow, that might be the single most outrageous price point I've ever seen for a GW product.
It's only outrageous if people aren't willing to pay it....
Oh it'll sell out for sure, won't be long before its on ebay for 700-800+ USD.
Thankfully i'm content with the starter contents. Hardback books aren't good for gaming anyways IMO. Nice for display and looking at but not practical for lugging around.
I'm having trouble deciding what I want to buy. I don't know if I want to buy one starter set, two starter sets, or just the rules card and two sets of the sprues for one army. I really like all of the miniatures, but I'm just not sure if I'll ever get around to painting and using them all.
Rumored repulsive Repulsor stats on Faeit212 (apparently from "good sources" :
Power level 14
S7 T8 W13 Sv3+
Turret - Heavy Lascannon, Heavy Stubber
*Resolve shots with Heavy Stubber first, if the Heavy Lascannon targets a unit hit by the Stubber, it may reroll misses
Hull-mounted Twin Lascannon, swivels up/down and left/right
Rotor cannon is a pintle mounted upgrade
Missiles: Roll a D6 at the start of each fight phase for each enemy unit within 1", on a 4+ it takes D3 mortal wounds (slightly better Frag Assault Launchers)
Transport Capacity 7, can only transport Primaris Marines
Decays its Movement/BS/Attacks as it loses wounds
Movement 10" BS 3+ Attacks 3 base
Rippy wrote: Rumored repulsive Repulsor stats on Faeit212 (apparently from "good sources" :
Power level 14
S7 T8 W13 Sv3+
Turret - Heavy Lascannon, Heavy Stubber
*Resolve shots with Heavy Stubber first, if the Heavy Lascannon targets a unit hit by the Stubber, it may reroll misses
Hull-mounted Twin Lascannon, swivels up/down and left/right
Rotor cannon is a pintle mounted upgrade
Missiles: Roll a D6 at the start of each fight phase for each enemy unit within 1", on a 4+ it takes D3 mortal wounds (slightly better Frag Assault Launchers)
Transport Capacity 7, can only transport Primaris Marines
Decays its Movement/BS/Attacks as it loses wounds
Movement 10" BS 3+ Attacks 3 base
Rippy wrote: Guessing that is for focused targetting, Mr BugBear (also are you a bug or a bear?)
I see. I play a few simulator games and using your MG to help you range in before firing your cannon is a common practice so that's what came to mind. I identify as a bear atm.
Have your local retailer buy it for you with his VAT number and make you a 25% discount. Sell the big rulebook for like 200, artbook for 100, art posters for 50, poster for 50 and suddenly you are looking at a price of 150ish
Anyways, if the thing's going to cost 250, that's at least 300 euros...Which is pretty much a Cerastus Knight + GW Knight
Chapter approved is coming back? That makes me happy. I remember reading through those when I was a kid, before I could afford to play but could manage getting those from a used bookstore.
SilverAlien wrote: Chapter approved is coming back? That makes me happy. I remember reading through those when I was a kid, before I could afford to play but could manage getting those from a used bookstore.
Yes, but they are very different now. They are yearly (at least) updates containing new content to keep 40k fresh, apparently.
It is worth pointing out that for those of us in Japan, Australia or New Zealand, the digital versions of all the books are substantially cheaper than the physical versions.
SilverAlien wrote: Chapter approved is coming back? That makes me happy. I remember reading through those when I was a kid, before I could afford to play but could manage getting those from a used bookstore.
Yes, but they are very different now. They are yearly (at least) updates containing new content to keep 40k fresh, apparently.
Wasn't that almost exactly what the annual chapter approved book was before? It might feel a bit different, not being a collection of articles mixed together, but will probably be similar.
Also a good way for them to regularly put out stats for new/upcoming models.
SilverAlien wrote: Chapter approved is coming back? That makes me happy. I remember reading through those when I was a kid, before I could afford to play but could manage getting those from a used bookstore.
Yes, but they are very different now. They are yearly (at least) updates containing new content to keep 40k fresh, apparently.
Wasn't that almost exactly what the annual chapter approved book was before? It might feel a bit different, not being a collection of articles mixed together, but will probably be similar.
Also a good way for them to regularly put out stats for new/upcoming models.
SilverAlien wrote: Chapter approved is coming back? That makes me happy. I remember reading through those when I was a kid, before I could afford to play but could manage getting those from a used bookstore.
Yes, but they are very different now. They are yearly (at least) updates containing new content to keep 40k fresh, apparently.
a.k.a the 40k version of Age of Sigmar's General's Handbook.
Rippy wrote: Rumored repulsive Repulsor stats on Faeit212 (apparently from "good sources" :
[...]
Transport Capacity 7, can only transport Primaris Marines
[...]
Must have a "Must be this tall to ride" marker next to the door.
I hope that turns out not to be true because it stinks of cash-grab. What other reason could there be that normal marines couldn't fit?
They said that Primaris marines have two additional implants on top of those Astartes Secondus have. Perhaps they're Kardashian Pattern Cheek Implants? If that were the case, normal marines may simply not fit in the seats of the Grav Raider properly.
So, I noticed something funny about Dark Angel Terminators. Unlike everyone else's terminators, when they get a heavy weapon they do NOT need to turn in their storm bolters.
So, a Dark Angel Terminator can have:
a power fist, two storm bolters, cyclone missile launcher
cuda1179 wrote: So, I noticed something funny about Dark Angel Terminators. Unlike everyone else's terminators, when they get a heavy weapon they do NOT need to turn in their storm bolters.
So, a Dark Angel Terminator can have:
a power fist, two storm bolters, cyclone missile launcher
Power fist, storm bolter, plasma cannon,
Power fist, storm bolter, assault cannon.
IIRC the Dark Angel Captain had that same quirk in the 4th/5th edition codex. A friend of mine would load him up with every option possible like a swisstartes army knife.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: Drop pod petals not counting has always been a house rule, other than the final FAQ, and I don't expect that to change.
I could be misremembering because it's when i started playing, but I think there was some mention made of ignoring the doors in the 5th edition marine codex.
Nicorex wrote: Its 826 NZ dollars.. that works out to 590.16 in US currency.
Wow, that might be the single most outrageous price point I've ever seen for a GW product.
It's only outrageous if people aren't willing to pay it....
Nah bruv, it's pretty insane.
AUD$700, BTW.
Crikey!
Well if they sell out they priced it pretty right. Or even too cheap though we don't know. If it would sell 1 short then price would be pretty ideal(of course that 1 more would be even better but then would remain question would they have sold more if they had printed more)
I hope that turns out not to be true because it stinks of cash-grab. What other reason could there be that normal marines couldn't fit?
Why storm troopers don't fit in rhino?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MasterSlowPoke wrote: Drop pod petals not counting has always been a house rule, other than the final FAQ, and I don't expect that to change.
And you know why it was always used house rule? Because otherwise it's big pile of can of worms even GW realized that was seriously bad idea.
GW takes one step forward, 1 step backward and 1 step sideway as usual. They got it sensible and now took step backward again it seems. Somebody please find something showing it's not so.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wunzlez wrote: Someone else has probably noticed this already amongst other errors, but under the entry for Obliterators on the leaked chaos book the rules for strength, armour piercing and damage are listed as 6+D3, D3 & D3 respectively.
However the explanation for this system and the example given are wrong. It states in demonstration that "For example if the rolls were a 1, followed by a 3, followed by a 2, then that unit's attacks would have a Strength of 7, an AP of - 3, and a damage of 2 for that shooting phase or overwatch attack"
Spot the obvious mistake?
And with my pointless and extremely specific pedantry quota filled, I'm of to recharge.
Rippy wrote: Rumored repulsive Repulsor stats on Faeit212 (apparently from "good sources" :
Power level 14
S7 T8 W13 Sv3+
Turret - Heavy Lascannon, Heavy Stubber
*Resolve shots with Heavy Stubber first, if the Heavy Lascannon targets a unit hit by the Stubber, it may reroll misses
Hull-mounted Twin Lascannon, swivels up/down and left/right
Rotor cannon is a pintle mounted upgrade
Missiles: Roll a D6 at the start of each fight phase for each enemy unit within 1", on a 4+ it takes D3 mortal wounds (slightly better Frag Assault Launchers)
Transport Capacity 7, can only transport Primaris Marines
Decays its Movement/BS/Attacks as it loses wounds
Movement 10" BS 3+ Attacks 3 base
cuda1179 wrote: So, I noticed something funny about Dark Angel Terminators. Unlike everyone else's terminators, when they get a heavy weapon they do NOT need to turn in their storm bolters.
So, a Dark Angel Terminator can have:
a power fist, two storm bolters, cyclone missile launcher
Power fist, storm bolter, plasma cannon,
Power fist, storm bolter, assault cannon.
IIRC the Dark Angel Captain had that same quirk in the 4th/5th edition codex. A friend of mine would load him up with every option possible like a swisstartes army knife.
Knights of Geneva, DA successor chapter, I'm assuming?
Wunzlez wrote: Someone else has probably noticed this already amongst other errors, but under the entry for Obliterators on the leaked chaos book the rules for strength, armour piercing and damage are listed as 6+D3, D3 & D3 respectively.
However the explanation for this system and the example given are wrong. It states in demonstration that "For example if the rolls were a 1, followed by a 3, followed by a 2, then that unit's attacks would have a Strength of 7, an AP of - 3, and a damage of 2 for that shooting phase or overwatch attack"
Spot the obvious mistake?
And with my pointless and extremely specific pedantry quota filled, I'm of to recharge.
Except for the fact that the entry lists the AP as -D3, not D3, so the obvious mistake is you read it wrong.
Wunzlez wrote: Someone else has probably noticed this already amongst other errors, but under the entry for Obliterators on the leaked chaos book the rules for strength, armour piercing and damage are listed as 6+D3, D3 & D3 respectively.
However the explanation for this system and the example given are wrong. It states in demonstration that "For example if the rolls were a 1, followed by a 3, followed by a 2, then that unit's attacks would have a Strength of 7, an AP of - 3, and a damage of 2 for that shooting phase or overwatch attack"
Spot the obvious mistake?
And with my pointless and extremely specific pedantry quota filled, I'm of to recharge.
Except for the fact that the entry lists the AP as -D3, not D3, so the obvious mistake is you read it wrong.
Unless you're kidding, he means that rolls of 3 and 2 would result in AP -2 and damage 1 respectively.
Wunzlez wrote: Someone else has probably noticed this already amongst other errors, but under the entry for Obliterators on the leaked chaos book the rules for strength, armour piercing and damage are listed as 6+D3, D3 & D3 respectively.
However the explanation for this system and the example given are wrong. It states in demonstration that "For example if the rolls were a 1, followed by a 3, followed by a 2, then that unit's attacks would have a Strength of 7, an AP of - 3, and a damage of 2 for that shooting phase or overwatch attack"
Spot the obvious mistake?
And with my pointless and extremely specific pedantry quota filled, I'm of to recharge.
Except for the fact that the entry lists the AP as -D3, not D3, so the obvious mistake is you read it wrong.
Unless you're kidding, he means that rolls of 3 and 2 would result in AP -2 and damage 1 respectively.
You're rolling a D3. The example in the limited space available on the unit's datasheet simply omits the usual process of rolling a D6 and halving the result. The numbers given are the final D3 results.
Wunzlez wrote: Someone else has probably noticed this already amongst other errors, but under the entry for Obliterators on the leaked chaos book the rules for strength, armour piercing and damage are listed as 6+D3, D3 & D3 respectively.
However the explanation for this system and the example given are wrong. It states in demonstration that "For example if the rolls were a 1, followed by a 3, followed by a 2, then that unit's attacks would have a Strength of 7, an AP of - 3, and a damage of 2 for that shooting phase or overwatch attack"
Spot the obvious mistake?
And with my pointless and extremely specific pedantry quota filled, I'm of to recharge.
Except for the fact that the entry lists the AP as -D3, not D3, so the obvious mistake is you read it wrong.
Unless you're kidding, he means that rolls of 3 and 2 would result in AP -2 and damage 1 respectively.
I said god damn at the australian prices.. Im gonna buy myself a boat and start smuggling Warhammer to you. How many hours does to take to row from Sweden?
Thommy H wrote: You're rolling a D3. The example in the limited space available on the unit's datasheet simply omits the usual process of rolling a D6 and halving the result. The numbers given are the final D3 results.
Not even space issue I would say. When you roll d3 your results are 1, 2 and 3. Not 4, 6 or 6.
Rippy wrote: Rumored repulsive Repulsor stats on Faeit212 (apparently from "good sources" :
[...]
Transport Capacity 7, can only transport Primaris Marines
[...]
Must have a "Must be this tall to ride" marker next to the door.
I hope that turns out not to be true because it stinks of cash-grab. What other reason could there be that normal marines couldn't fit?
They said that Primaris marines have two additional implants on top of those Astartes Secondus have. Perhaps they're Kardashian Pattern Cheek Implants? If that were the case, normal marines may simply not fit in the seats of the Grav Raider properly.
- ruin 40k fluff (ultra ultra moronis marines)
- ruin 40k artwork (majority being the soulless, characterless cgi crap)
- ruin the look of minis (more and more busy/ cartoonish/ awful sculpts)
- ruin the rules (removing depth from the already shallow rules)
- ruin whfb (to say the least heh)
but someow they get a pass here? Disagree with the above if you want but you have to agree that a few years back, GW would be torn to bits for the changes like 8th edition brings. People were bashing them mercilessly because of Matt Ward, well Ward was nothing compared to girlyman riding moronis marines to victory, the latter is Marvel superhero level of crap. Are we happy there's hope now in 40k, was it too bleak and depressing?
Or is it because they "listen" now? Because they seem to be listening to the wrong people and imo this GW is magnitudes worse than the old, silent one.
- ruin 40k fluff (ultra ultra moronis marines)
- ruin 40k artwork (majority being the soulless, characterless cgi crap)
- ruin the look of minis (more and more busy/ cartoonish/ busy sculpts)
- ruin the rules (removing depth from the already shallow rules)
- ruin whfb (to say the least heh)
but someow they get a pass here? Disagree with the above if you want but you have to agree that a few years back, GW would be torn to bits for the changes like 8th edition brings.
We like the changes. Well some of us do. If you dont like it, play Warhammer 35k, sell your stuff, or look at the positives instead.
Rippy wrote: Rumored repulsive Repulsor stats on Faeit212 (apparently from "good sources" :
Power level 14
S7 T8 W13 Sv3+
Turret - Heavy Lascannon, Heavy Stubber
*Resolve shots with Heavy Stubber first, if the Heavy Lascannon targets a unit hit by the Stubber, it may reroll misses
Hull-mounted Twin Lascannon, swivels up/down and left/right
Rotor cannon is a pintle mounted upgrade
Missiles: Roll a D6 at the start of each fight phase for each enemy unit within 1", on a 4+ it takes D3 mortal wounds (slightly better Frag Assault Launchers)
Transport Capacity 7, can only transport Primaris Marines
Decays its Movement/BS/Attacks as it loses wounds
Movement 10" BS 3+ Attacks 3 base
Seems rather ridiculous to limit it to only Primaris SMs though. I think the first house rule I'd allow for SM players (I'm not one) is to let any SM player take them as normal.
What sort of possible reason could they have for not allowing normal SM to use them? It's not like normal SM players can't fit in the door. My suspicion is that it's a forced mechanism to get people to buy Primaris. Shame the model is pants...
To add insult to injury, after the new moronis marines brought a promise of a modernised, sleek scifi look, GW released their dreadnougt and tank which look 10x goofier than the old dread/ landraider, almost orky in apperance, more like a parody than a serious addition. Sad imo.
- ruin 40k fluff (ultra ultra moronis marines) - ruin 40k artwork (majority being the soulless, characterless cgi crap) - ruin the look of minis (more and more busy/ cartoonish/ busy sculpts) - ruin the rules (removing depth from the already shallow rules) - ruin whfb (to say the least heh)
but someow they get a pass here? Disagree with the above if you want but you have to agree that a few years back, GW would be torn to bits for the changes like 8th edition brings. People were bashing them mercilessly because of Matt Ward, well Ward was nothing compared to girlyman riding moronis marines to victory, the latter is Marvel superhero level of crap, are we happy there's hope now in 40k, was it too bleak and depressing?
Or is it because they "listen" now? Because they seem to be listening to the wrong people and imo this GW is magnitudes worse than the old, silent one.
Because people were desperate to find some sort of hope to cling to, whether they be existing fanboys, jaded fans, or people who'd since left but wanted an excuse to return. So Nu-GW started investing in some actual PR along the lines of, "Hey guys! We're one of you! Look at these quirky videos of us and our previews? Gosh darn we're the Nu-GW(tm)! You can trust us!" What this gave people the impression of was that this was going to be a 180 reversal from the past.
I fully expect the hype-train from 8th to crash hard in a few weeks to a few months though. The usual signs that GW has absolutely awful writers are already starting to show through the cracks, the lore has actually got WORSE and the Space Marine spank has ramped up even higher than before... though, given a lot of people would probably be happy if 40k was literally Space Marine vs Space Marine I don't know if that's a point against them in the eyes of some people. Like you said, if Gulliman's lore came out a year ago we'd probably be seeing an army march on Warhammer World to burn it down and lynch Ward, but because this is the NU-GW AND WE'RE YOUR FRIENDS ;^) people will defend it to the death... at least for now.
I mean if I'm wrong in the long-term then great, but I'm not holding my breath. I just don't think this is going to be the Second Coming people generally think it's going to be looking around the web and those people will get hit hard when it dawns on 'em.
Never mind all the other gak, the alleged "justification" for the post is even worse. Between the dozens of posters with hundreds of posts in this thread alone all making various complaints about the new fluff, new edition, new anything, pretty much, you somehow believe GW are getting "a pass" for whatever it is that was so important that you forgot to explain was prompting your complaint?
Wow.
I don't understand the hate. 40k has just been stale and stagnating for the last 20 or so years with hardly any lore or story advancement that it drastically needs.
This story, however shoehorned and cliche it is, is what 40k needs to start evolving as a game, with new goodies and story.
While a couple of people have been defending it to death, the general response to the naysaying has been "I feel sorry that you can't be excited".
7th is a mess. Rules wise, fluff wise and until recently, GW wise.
8th rules look fun, hardly as convoluted.
Alot of us wanted story progression, and I am enjoying the story (being a chaos fan boy, even though the focus has been on Imperium).
I guess can't really talk right now though, with all these great Death Guard releases, and being the focus of the story at the start.
I also like how they have handled the new marine fluff. They are not forcing you to upgrade, but they are providing you the means to slowly upgrade, or outright upgrade your marines.
The new models are generally stunning, and well designed (even if it's not to your personal taste).
They are engaging the community, play testing the rules, and listening to the feedback with yearly updates.
I am not defending this in to the ground, or trying to shove happiness down your throat, but I am proud to admit of my excitement for this.
Just look at the OP, and the amount of information that is contained therein.
Rippy wrote: While a couple of people have been defending it to death, the general response to the naysaying has been "I feel sorry that you can't be excited".
I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than disappointed. Like I said, if I'm wrong? Great. I hope I am.
Rippy wrote: While a couple of people have been defending it to death, the general response to the naysaying has been "I feel sorry that you can't be excited".
I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than disappointed. Like I said, if I'm wrong? Great. I hope I am.
My post was more directed at the person you were quoting, while it is wise to keep the excitement at an arms length noting GW's history, I have gone full blown hype, infact I feel like I am the conductor on the hype train
Anyway, I won't continue this line of conversation any further as it has gone off topic.
The new 40k has revitilising my interest in the game element of the 40k hobby, 6th and even worse 7th I did not enjoy and all that I have read so far for 8th is more in keeping with the game style I want to play.
With regard to the fluff changes - ambivalent about them until I read it all and absorb it. I don;t mind the whole Cawl/RG story but hope that Cawl will do the same for the Ad EMch foces that he has done for the Astartes - in particular give them transports.
The new marines are simply a way to resell the army to those who already have it - they will be more and more focussed on but given that GW had stubornly stuck to only updating the same old snowflake Chapters with more and more outlandish flavour units like wolfy wolf wolves riding wolves with wolf swords - urghhh - the new Marines and the transport at least look better than that and the Dark Angel Speeder etc etc.
Sadly this does mean yet another wave of Marine stuff which clogs the process and means those armies which desperatly need new plastic will have to wait - yet again and strangely enough not sell as much as Marines which will help convince GW to make .........more Marines.
I hope that there will be more variety in the models made for factions with the new edition but I think it will remain 80% Marines.
RyanAvx wrote: I don't understand the hate. 40k has just been stale and stagnating for the last 20 or so years with hardly any lore or story advancement that it drastically needs.
This story, however shoehorned and cliche it is, is what 40k needs to start evolving as a game, with new goodies and story.
It didn\t get story advances because it's not a story but a setting.
Well it was until GW forgot that their original idea was rather than players depending on being spoon fed bad story it was supposed to be players fighting out advances themselves.
. What it needs is more cowbell 
? I think so!
I have a squad of five...
Wow, that might be the single most outrageous price point I've ever seen for a 
