Looks like they have changed the name to "Greater Blight Drone" on the Forge World website, guessing because of the Bloat Drone.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hope that Forge World list of factions units isn't up to date, as the Spartan Assault Tank isn't listed under Chaos Space Marines..
Rippy wrote: Looks like they have changed the name to "Greater Blight Drone" on the Forge World website, guessing because of the Bloat Drone.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hope that Forge World list of factions units isn't up to date, as the Spartan Assault Tank isn't listed under Chaos Space Marines..
Rippy wrote: Looks like they have changed the name to "Greater Blight Drone" on the Forge World website, guessing because of the Bloat Drone.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hope that Forge World list of factions units isn't up to date, as the Spartan Assault Tank isn't listed under Chaos Space Marines..
Polonius wrote: I like that they're finally changing the idea that the Imperium relies entirely on old and dwindling technology. Not only does it strain credibility (pragamatism wins out over dogma over time), it also creates a dead end for new imperium models. there are only so many variants to current kits, and nobody seemed like to shoehorning in brand new units (like Centurions) by pretending they've been used the whole time.
For the first time, really ever, 40k is a more dynamic universe. That's a good thing for us as collectors and hobbyists.
And for those that say that GW should stop making Astartes kits, and make stuff for other factions: I can only assume that GW knows what sells, and caters to that. Like it or not, the collective affection for power army basically makes 40k a viable game. You know GW makes a ton more on every SM frame than anything they make for DE or AM. So, the extent that people buying space marines brings me new toys, I say, huzzah!
I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.
There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.
that's a fair point, but I think you can decouple technological advances (or lack thereof) from a societies stagnation or terminal decline. The Roman Empire's military evolved even as the society collapsed beneath it. I don't think that having slightly better marines is going to save the imperium, and I don't think it changes the unceasing grim dark of the setting to have Roboute Gulliman actually trying to help. If anything, this could set up even greater, swifter collapse. I think you can like things changing on the margins, and still like the setting.
It may not be critical to the Imperium(though I'd probably argue it is to an extent; for the Imperium general ignorance of technology is probably more important than decline per-se, but technological decline reinforces the general social decline), but it absolutely is for the Mechanicus. Their whole point is to be an indictment of dogma and blind obedience to ritual, to show the consequences of allowing fear and risk aversion to suppress creativity and independent thought. You can insert an occasional maverick character into that to tell an interesting story or provide an audience PoV character, but Cawl isn't just some random Magos Explorator getting a bit feisty and tweaking an STC a bit or looking a bit too closely at some Xenos tech, he's churning out whole new technologies in multiple disciplines on a level that even the Mechanicus, nevermind the Imperium as a whole, haven't been able to make on any kind of scale in millennia. Ryza is the only Forgeworld left with the expertise to build most Plasma tech? Naah, Cawl has you covered. Most Marine Chapters can't even manufacture MKIV armour any more? Eh, no probs have whole new Marks that are even more betterer than MKIV. Even if this whole "nah nah it's cool bro, it's all been in a vault for 10,000 years that's all" line from GW is taken at face value, Cawl would be fethed, Rowboat or no Rowboat; he should be lucky to avoid Servitorization for hoarding holy technology, and then it should take at least a few centuries for the creaking, dogmatic, wilfully-ignorant Mechanicus hierarchy to put all of these designs through the proper rituals of verification and consecration before they were certified for actual use.
I mean we're supposed to be talking about an organisation that has an hour-long ritual and specific holy lubricating oil to start up a computer and that makes the church's persecution of Gallileo look like a mild dressing down
The cold reality is that GW isn't making money telling a story. It's making money selling models, and making yet another iteration of Tactical Squads is not going to produce sales. Genuinely new power armor will. I wish people were as excited about new Xenos, but GW is giving people what they want.
To a large degree that's true even taking into account quibbles like the degree to which Marine releases a self-fulfilling prophesy, but I don't actually object to them adding new models, even fairly fugly ones like this, it's about how they add them and which models specifically are being added. I mean crikey, it wasn't a month ago that I was lamenting FW deciding to make up their own new special-snowflake vehicles for the Heresy Custodes rather than doing grav-Rhinos; if this thing was turretless, slathered in gold paint and a 30K release I'd be hyped as feth.
Yodhrin wrote: I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.
There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.
Y'know, I don't think you get to define how others are supposed to process, enjoy, or find meaning in some given material. You may have your own way that you perceive it and engage with it, but that has ZERO importance to how anyone else does the same. I feel like you struggle MIGHTILY with this basic concept.
Your statement above is full of personal opinion. Other individuals might point to to seeds of hope planted in the 40K background, such as the possible resurrection of the Emperor and/or his Primarchs (themes in the background since RT), or the existence of the Tau. You may choose to dismiss them or fit them into your view of the background in a different way. But others may be attracted to those concepts and find them important in the way they experience the background. And to them, the return of Guilliman, etc. aren't paradigm-shifting events but a gentle breeze being applied to small embers of hope.
Nah, sorry chief, you don't get to "well that's just like your opinion man" your way around this. This is basic, "how fiction works" stuff - settings have core themes, if you undermine those themes you change the setting on a fundamental level. You can like those changes, but you don't get to pretend they don't exist or ignore their magnitude. To illustrate, a little thought experiment: a new show comes out, featuring a small crew of cynical mercenaries that don't care about anyone except themselves trying to survive in a galaxy run by monstrous space-fascists. The show's creators put the words "Star Trek" in the title and say the monstrous space-fascists are what the Federation becomes after the Dominion War. You're going to sit there and tell me that the setting hasn't been fundamentally changed? That it's still Star Trek in any meaningful sense? I mean, Star Trek has those Mirror Universe episodes and that one DS9 two-parter about a coup, by your logic the fact the setting previously contained dystopian elements even in comparitively tiny amounts justifies transforming the fundamental nature of that setting, no? Obviously the comparison is hyperbolic, GW are not utterly destroying 40K's core premise, but it's a difference in degree not in kind.
You bring up thing like the Tau, but that merely reinforced the point. Not only are they self-evidently not part of humanity, but the whole point of them was to be defined against the hopeless failure that humanity had become - what made the Tau special is that they innovate rather than stagnate, that they expand rather than partially reconquer old losses, that they cooperate or at least subjugate rather than exterminate. The Tau exist to provide an alternative to the hopeless state of humanity and in so doing reinforce it. What made them 40K was that, in the end, their ingenuity and drive almost certainly wouldn't matter because they live in the same galaxy as Tyranids, Necrons, Daemons, and an empire of regressive genocidal xenophobes.
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." - whether 40K was in wry Pythonesque humour mode, cynical 2000AD satire mode, or relentless emo grimdark mode, the futility of hope in the face of humanity's decline -a decline made inevitable because it stems not from humanity's circumstances but our own fundamental flaws as a species and as individuals- has been right at the core of 40K.
Rippy wrote: For those who prefer the stagnant Imperium, there are links in the OP about the "Dark Imperium". The galaxy is in half, we have both a progressive and regressive imperium at the same time.
All information in the OP.
Please take further discussion of this topic to a general thread. You shouldnt have to wait for a mod to hand you a warning, they have a hard enough time keeping this thread in check.
The topic of this thread is the new edition of 40K, the new fluff and how it changes the setting is every bit as much a part of that new edition as the new rules and how they change the gameplay or the new models and whether people like them or not. If people can spend twenty pages arguing the minutae of the wording of a particular rule, I don't see why a few posts discussing fluff that is explicitly new and related to the new edition should be "kept in check". I mean crikey, we're discussing material that's mostly coming out of the actual 8th edition rulebook.
Also, you're incorrect. There is an Imperium, and an area of space that used to be controlled by the Imperium. "Dark Imperium" doesn't have appear to have a government, nor does it appear to be a unified faction, it's a wilderness dotted with disconnected pockets of civilisation, a galactic post-apocalyse, and is in no way comparable to the pre-Robute's return Imperium of Man. More like the galaxy as a whole during the Age of Strife.
Anywho, I ordered my box and a set of objective markers. Seeing the 360s has made me like the Nurgle models a lot more, I might keep them rather than selling them on afterall. The sprue pics of the Primaris are a relief - I'd been worried they'd be difficult to convert given the fixed poses, but the way they've split them means the tweaks needed to make them into truescale versions of proper armour marks should be minimal, sculpting work aside. Oddly enough the part I'm most excited to get my hands on is the Lieutenant's bolt pistol - the size and layout looks like it would make a perfect bolt-SMG style weapon for a human scale model. The helmets should also make for an interesting variant MKIV for Heresy marines - the filtered versions from the Flying Lobsters would look great on some MKIV Destroyers.
Rippy wrote: @Changemod
I can't read it, is Plague Hulk of Nurgle on there?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Infact, if someone could provide a clear picture of the contents page, or be happy to list of the forge world index pages (big job I know), I am sure we would all appreciate it.
Dark sphere were the cheapest I could find £75.05 including delivery.
Lol where did you look? Thats the most expensive outside of going direct.
£71 from outpost
£71.25 from wargames uk as just some examples
Do those prices include delivery?
No but theyd still be cheaper. Outpost post cost £3.50 making it £74.50. I knoe its just under but its still cheaper
Wargames uk free post so still same
- ruin 40k fluff (ultra ultra moronis marines)
- ruin 40k artwork (majority being the soulless, characterless cgi crap)
- ruin the look of minis (more and more busy/ cartoonish/ awful sculpts)
- ruin the rules (removing depth from the already shallow rules)
- ruin whfb (to say the least heh)
but someow they get a pass here? Disagree with the above if you want but you have to agree that a few years back, GW would be torn to bits for the changes like 8th edition brings. People were bashing them mercilessly because of Matt Ward, well Ward was nothing compared to girlyman riding moronis marines to victory, the latter is Marvel superhero level of crap. Are we happy there's hope now in 40k, was it too bleak and depressing?
Or is it because they "listen" now? Because they seem to be listening to the wrong people and imo this GW is magnitudes worse than the old, silent one.
I think most of the people who would have ripped into GW in the past have already left the building. That's why their sales are down year on year. 8th edition isn't meant for them, it's meant to attract new people in to replace them. It also need to attract new players in to replace all the ones it's going to drive away. I know looking at the new models I have no interest in super space marines or out of scale nurgle marines.
I'll save final judgement on the rules until I've played a demo or too, but nothing I've read have given me anything to get excited about.
Over the last month or so all these leaks have been coming out I know my interest for the game has all but disappeared after 23 years. However the recent FW announcement has made me think maybe focusing on 30K (and ignoring the horrible things they have done to the 40K fluff) will fill the void.
£250 for the limited edition, who the hell is buying that. That's basically a warhound titans body for emperors sake.
Dark sphere were the cheapest I could find £75.05 including delivery.
Lol where did you look? Thats the most expensive outside of going direct.
£71 from outpost
£71.25 from wargames uk as just some examples
Do those prices include delivery?
No but theyd still be cheaper. Outpost post cost £3.50 making it £74.50. I knoe its just under but its still cheaper
Wargames uk free post so still same
NB If you live near enough and add another £5 (or more) GW item you can collect Dark Imperium in person for the web price from Dark Sphere, which matches Wargames UK.
- ruin 40k fluff (ultra ultra moronis marines)
- ruin 40k artwork (majority being the soulless, characterless cgi crap)
- ruin the look of minis (more and more busy/ cartoonish/ awful sculpts)
- ruin the rules (removing depth from the already shallow rules)
- ruin whfb (to say the least heh)
but someow they get a pass here? Disagree with the above if you want but you have to agree that a few years back, GW would be torn to bits for the changes like 8th edition brings. People were bashing them mercilessly because of Matt Ward, well Ward was nothing compared to girlyman riding moronis marines to victory, the latter is Marvel superhero level of crap. Are we happy there's hope now in 40k, was it too bleak and depressing?
Or is it because they "listen" now? Because they seem to be listening to the wrong people and imo this GW is magnitudes worse than the old, silent one.
I think most of the people who would have ripped into GW in the past have already left the building. That's why their sales are down year on year. 8th edition isn't meant for them, it's meant to attract new people in to replace them. It also need to attract new players in to replace all the ones it's going to drive away. I know looking at the new models I have no interest in super space marines or out of scale nurgle marines.
I'll save final judgement on the rules until I've played a demo or too, but nothing I've read have given me anything to get excited about.
Over the last month or so all these leaks have been coming out I know my interest for the game has all but disappeared after 23 years. However the recent FW announcement has made me think maybe focusing on 30K (and ignoring the horrible things they have done to the 40K fluff) will fill the void.
£250 for the limited edition, who the hell is buying that. That's basically a warhound titans body for emperors sake.
Seito O wrote: Well...
Maybe i am blind or something but:
There is no ad mech in the Forge World Indexes or?
No Secutarii Hoplites, no Ordinatus.
Strange...isn it?
Hate to point out the seemingly obvious, but those aren't Space Marine, Chaos, Xenos or Astra Militarum units, why would you expect them to be in those books?
Seito O wrote: Well...
Maybe i am blind or something but:
There is no ad mech in the Forge World Indexes or?
No Secutarii Hoplites, no Ordinatus.
Strange...isn it?
Hate to point out the seemingly obvious, but those aren't Space Marine, Chaos, Xenos or Astra Militarum units, why would you expect them to be in those books?
*shruggs*
Thought all rules would be avaible + they would go the the indexes of GW (Imp in one book, Xenos etc.).
Because for 4 units one lone book would be rather...strange?
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Probably because they'll be in Fires of Cyraxus when it is eventually released.
More worryingly, it seems they aren't porting proper Custodes over.
Right, so, the indices are get-you-by compilations of rules for Forge World's 40k line, yeah? Everything FW make that has a 40k profile.
Forge World make no Custodes that have 40k rules at this time; they have not yet made any attempt to port their additions to the Custodes from AoD/30k.
Either they don't want to, they aren't allowed to, or they aren't ready to yet.
In terms of rules for Custodes in 8th edition 40k, GW will be publishing their own rules for them in Index Imperium 2 to start with.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Probably because they'll be in Fires of Cyraxus when it is eventually released.
More worryingly, it seems they aren't porting proper Custodes over.
Right, so, the indices are get-you-by compilations of rules for Forge World's 40k line, yeah? Everything FW make that has a 40k profile.
Forge World make no Custodes that have 40k rules at this time; they have not yet made any attempt to port their additions to the Custodes from AoD/30k.
Either they don't want to, they aren't allowed to, or they aren't ready to yet.
In terms of rules for Custodes in 8th edition 40k, GW will be publishing their own rules for them in Index Imperium 2 to start with.
They're porting plenty of other things that didn't have rules before, and it kinda made sense that the nonsensical Talons release for 7th was a hold you over for a month or two release.
That they actually did give in imperium index 2 the ridiculous HQ and two types of troop awkwardly merged into a single unit stats again is a bad thing, in that it lowers the chance of actual Custodes rules being a thing.
Went down to my local GW for the pre-order this morning...have never seen it so busy. Was nice flicking through the rules and various gubbinz you get in the Dark Imperium boxed set. I found the miniatures a lot better in person, the Nurgle side especially.
See the usual upset crew are in, it makes me enjoy the release even more!
GW has 350 quid of my money today, why do I have to wait 2 weeks! I caved and went for the limited edition, knew I'd regret it if I didn't.
Offer is still there for any people cross with GW, I will take models off people's hands for a reasonable price so they can go play another game. I'll even throw in some Antares stuff
£250 is too rich for my blood for the limited edition but I guess that's the point - anything limited tends to sell out in an hour on GW, but that one is still up. Charge what the market will bear, etc. I bought the limited ed rulebook for 6th edition - it's a nice keepsake but it was succeeded by 7th way too quickly for me to ever play that game again
Dark sphere were the cheapest I could find £75.05 including delivery.
Lol where did you look? Thats the most expensive outside of going direct.
£71 from outpost
£71.25 from wargames uk as just some examples
Do those prices include delivery?
No but theyd still be cheaper. Outpost post cost £3.50 making it £74.50. I knoe its just under but its still cheaper
Wargames uk free post so still same
NB If you live near enough and add another £5 (or more) GW item you can collect Dark Imperium in person for the web price from Dark Sphere, which matches Wargames UK.
Its ok if youre near them i guess. Even if dark sphere were cheapest though personally id still go elsewhere
Thebiggesthat wrote: See the usual upset crew are in, it makes me enjoy the release even more!
GW has 350 quid of my money today, why do I have to wait 2 weeks! I caved and went for the limited edition, knew I'd regret it if I didn't.
Offer is still there for any people cross with GW, I will take models off people's hands for a reasonable price so they can go play another game. I'll even throw in some Antares stuff
And your enjoyment ups my enjoyment, seems we have happiness perpetum mobile! It's like Roubotte himself was right here with us!
But yeah, I have tons of stuff to sell for a good price, PM if interested. Not really getting rid of 40k - I can play modified old editions with the models - just reducing the collection to a sensible size.
Never mind all the other gak, the alleged "justification" for the post is even worse. Between the dozens of posters with hundreds of posts in this thread alone all making various complaints about the new fluff, new edition, new anything, pretty much, you somehow believe GW are getting "a pass" for whatever it is that was so important that you forgot to explain was prompting your complaint?
Wow.
The hate level is nowhere near what even the smaller fluff bits from Ward inspired, and I think picking up warlord trait randomly (a small thing in the grand scheme of things) was bashed more than removing vehicle facing (relatively a big thing) is being bashed now. Why the poor facing btw? My 7 year old son is able to keep, track and choose facing of the tank when we play our simplified WWII wargame, the change is dumb, lazy and tanks have wounds now, because AV was hard I guess. Anyway, maybe most of the people who cared then have indeed already left.
This entire edition follows the AoS footstep, a game which cinematic and strategic/ tactical ambitions are best summed up by a single sentence - "you can shoot bows out of close combat". Artwork is bad. Fluff is bad. But yes, "all the other gak", for someone criticising a quality of my post, you better read your response again.
Shadow Walker wrote: Found on vk (Russian fb I believe) - check the ''classified'' - looks like Emperor is ... dead?
this looks like it's from a horus Heresy book
Agreed, it's probably about the Siege of Terra when they thought the Emperor was dead.
According so a fellow on Facebook that I'm in a chat group with, it's from the new Rulebook.
I shared the image and he replied saying he saw it today when he was looking at the new rulebook at his flgs.
Shadow Walker wrote: Found on vk (Russian fb I believe) - check the ''classified'' - looks like Emperor is ... dead?
this looks like it's from a horus Heresy book
Agreed, it's probably about the Siege of Terra when they thought the Emperor was dead.
According so a fellow on Facebook that I'm in a chat group with, it's from the new Rulebook.
I shared the image and he replied saying he saw it today when he was looking at the new rulebook at his flgs.
That's very interesting. I wonder what the context is.
This is what it says according to my chrome auto translator:
Aborting one spoiler.
-Hot Topic 8 edition - Great rift that divided the galaxy in half. On dark side Imperial Astronomican not visible light. Many orders Space Marines lost or even destroyed.
-Napadenie to Terra, the Emperor's palace is attacked khornitov army but Guilliman takes defense into their own hands and, together with the Sisters of Silence and Custodes reflect the attack.
-In the darkest hour, when all the connection was broken during the fighting mnoih places were seen the emergence of the Legion of the Damned (Baal, Armageddon, and hundreds of other planets).
-Neodolimy Crusade: Guilliman and everything, everything, everything.
-Varp storm turned half of Armageddon in the demonic world. Khorne and Tzeentch forces fighting with such ferocity that humans and orcs for a short period of time have to fight together. Salamander prevent the ritual call Angron.
-On the Blood Angels Baal nearly killed by the Leviathan, but their rescue Guilliman and warp rift. And Ka'Banda. We look forward to future conflict khornitov and spacecraft.
-Chuma that puts an end to all other diseases: Mortarion precipitates Ultramar. Two-primarch brother converge in battle.
-Next to the Eye of Terror has been found unstable passage through the break, leading to a sector ruled by jousting traitors at home.
The mysterious part of the book: "Terra Strikes Back." In an attempt to take the initiative in their own hands going on Terra strike force, supported by an army of Adeptus Kustodes.Tekst smeared, but at the end of sentences to guess words: "Lord of mankind, and that has something to do with death."
Dark sphere were the cheapest I could find £75.05 including delivery.
Lol where did you look? Thats the most expensive outside of going direct.
£71 from outpost
£71.25 from wargames uk as just some examples
Do those prices include delivery?
No but theyd still be cheaper. Outpost post cost £3.50 making it £74.50. I knoe its just under but its still cheaper
Wargames uk free post so still same
Aww it must be nice to be so easily amused
Forgot about outpost not heard of wargames U.K Before so thanks for the new store to add to the list
This is what it says according to my chrome auto translator:
Aborting one spoiler.
-Hot Topic 8 edition - Great rift that divided the galaxy in half. On dark side Imperial Astronomican not visible light. Many orders Space Marines lost or even destroyed.
-Napadenie to Terra, the Emperor's palace is attacked khornitov army but Guilliman takes defense into their own hands and, together with the Sisters of Silence and Custodes reflect the attack.
-In the darkest hour, when all the connection was broken during the fighting mnoih places were seen the emergence of the Legion of the Damned (Baal, Armageddon, and hundreds of other planets).
-Neodolimy Crusade: Guilliman and everything, everything, everything.
-Varp storm turned half of Armageddon in the demonic world. Khorne and Tzeentch forces fighting with such ferocity that humans and orcs for a short period of time have to fight together. Salamander prevent the ritual call Angron.
-On the Blood Angels Baal nearly killed by the Leviathan, but their rescue Guilliman and warp rift. And Ka'Banda. We look forward to future conflict khornitov and spacecraft.
-Chuma that puts an end to all other diseases: Mortarion precipitates Ultramar. Two-primarch brother converge in battle.
-Next to the Eye of Terror has been found unstable passage through the break, leading to a sector ruled by jousting traitors at home.
The mysterious part of the book: "Terra Strikes Back." In an attempt to take the initiative in their own hands going on Terra strike force, supported by an army of Adeptus Kustodes.Tekst smeared, but at the end of sentences to guess words: "Lord of mankind, and that has something to do with death."
No need to translate if you just link to the original source instead of some russian twitter whatever site?
This is what it says according to my chrome auto translator:
Aborting one spoiler.
-Hot Topic 8 edition - Great rift that divided the galaxy in half. On dark side Imperial Astronomican not visible light. Many orders Space Marines lost or even destroyed.
-Napadenie to Terra, the Emperor's palace is attacked khornitov army but Guilliman takes defense into their own hands and, together with the Sisters of Silence and Custodes reflect the attack.
-In the darkest hour, when all the connection was broken during the fighting mnoih places were seen the emergence of the Legion of the Damned (Baal, Armageddon, and hundreds of other planets).
-Neodolimy Crusade: Guilliman and everything, everything, everything.
-Varp storm turned half of Armageddon in the demonic world. Khorne and Tzeentch forces fighting with such ferocity that humans and orcs for a short period of time have to fight together. Salamander prevent the ritual call Angron.
-On the Blood Angels Baal nearly killed by the Leviathan, but their rescue Guilliman and warp rift. And Ka'Banda. We look forward to future conflict khornitov and spacecraft.
-Chuma that puts an end to all other diseases: Mortarion precipitates Ultramar. Two-primarch brother converge in battle.
-Next to the Eye of Terror has been found unstable passage through the break, leading to a sector ruled by jousting traitors at home.
The mysterious part of the book: "Terra Strikes Back." In an attempt to take the initiative in their own hands going on Terra strike force, supported by an army of Adeptus Kustodes.Tekst smeared, but at the end of sentences to guess words: "Lord of mankind, and that has something to do with death."
No need to translate if you just link to the original source instead of some russian twitter whatever site?
This is what it says according to my chrome auto translator:
Aborting one spoiler.
-Hot Topic 8 edition - Great rift that divided the galaxy in half. On dark side Imperial Astronomican not visible light. Many orders Space Marines lost or even destroyed.
-Napadenie to Terra, the Emperor's palace is attacked khornitov army but Guilliman takes defense into their own hands and, together with the Sisters of Silence and Custodes reflect the attack.
-In the darkest hour, when all the connection was broken during the fighting mnoih places were seen the emergence of the Legion of the Damned (Baal, Armageddon, and hundreds of other planets).
-Neodolimy Crusade: Guilliman and everything, everything, everything.
-Varp storm turned half of Armageddon in the demonic world. Khorne and Tzeentch forces fighting with such ferocity that humans and orcs for a short period of time have to fight together. Salamander prevent the ritual call Angron.
-On the Blood Angels Baal nearly killed by the Leviathan, but their rescue Guilliman and warp rift. And Ka'Banda. We look forward to future conflict khornitov and spacecraft.
-Chuma that puts an end to all other diseases: Mortarion precipitates Ultramar. Two-primarch brother converge in battle.
-Next to the Eye of Terror has been found unstable passage through the break, leading to a sector ruled by jousting traitors at home.
The mysterious part of the book: "Terra Strikes Back." In an attempt to take the initiative in their own hands going on Terra strike force, supported by an army of Adeptus Kustodes.Tekst smeared, but at the end of sentences to guess words: "Lord of mankind, and that has something to do with death."
Oh my goodness. Call the crusades. Call all of them!
The emperor bit probably just says is the master of mankind dead? As a cliff hanger thing probably. Doesn't look like there is a word in front of dea....
- ruin 40k fluff (ultra ultra moronis marines)
- ruin 40k artwork (majority being the soulless, characterless cgi crap)
- ruin the look of minis (more and more busy/ cartoonish/ awful sculpts)
- ruin the rules (removing depth from the already shallow rules)
- ruin whfb (to say the least heh)
but someow they get a pass here? Disagree with the above if you want but you have to agree that a few years back, GW would be torn to bits for the changes like 8th edition brings. People were bashing them mercilessly because of Matt Ward, well Ward was nothing compared to girlyman riding moronis marines to victory, the latter is Marvel superhero level of crap. Are we happy there's hope now in 40k, was it too bleak and depressing?
Or is it because they "listen" now? Because they seem to be listening to the wrong people and imo this GW is magnitudes worse than the old, silent one.
I think most of the people who would have ripped into GW in the past have already left the building. That's why their sales are down year on year. 8th edition isn't meant for them, it's meant to attract new people in to replace them. It also need to attract new players in to replace all the ones it's going to drive away. I know looking at the new models I have no interest in super space marines or out of scale nurgle marines.
I'll save final judgement on the rules until I've played a demo or too, but nothing I've read have given me anything to get excited about.
Over the last month or so all these leaks have been coming out I know my interest for the game has all but disappeared after 23 years. However the recent FW announcement has made me think maybe focusing on 30K (and ignoring the horrible things they have done to the 40K fluff) will fill the void.
£250 for the limited edition, who the hell is buying that. That's basically a warhound titans body for emperors sake.
Yes, when I saw moronis marines, I thougt here's space marine for a Halo/ Starcraft crowd. Seeing the dread/ repulsor, I'm not that sure anymore heh.
I don't think the moronis marines models are bad, it's just the fluff that only a heavy retcon can fix. Also, imo they will look stupid on the table because of their size, current infantry models are already too big imo, bordering on toyish at times.
I'll check the ruleset as well, being the simpleton it is and assuming it's better balanced, it might be easier to houserule.
GW sales have been up for 2 quarters now, probably because the vast majority of people are liking what they've been doing I would expect to see some pretty solid numbers for the foreseeable future as they're doing a much better job of attracting new players and getting older players interested again. As for people not 'ripping into' GW, H.B.M.C., tneva, seandrake, streetsamurai and oni should be deeply offended.
Primaris marines are objectively superior models to normal space marines(seriously, even Calth marines look like lopsided dog crap in comparison.) and are very conservative in their adornments so I don't get what the ptoblem is there. The new art is w/e, old 40k art looked like john blanche drew his dreams after watching nothing but pornos and 'The Thing' for a week straight. Not better or worse, just different. As for the fluff? Meh, it's weird that people get upset about stuff like this. It's totally banal, 'oh they had a weapon and then they made a better weapon' I mean it's a bit weird for 40k but with all the other monumentus crap that's been happening not totally beyond the realm of possibility.
The rules for 8th are MASSIVELY superior and they removed unnecessary complexity not depth, it's as deep as it's ever been and it's fun again for the first time since the Eldar Codex dropped. I played a game yesterday and it feels almost exactly the same except we got a 3 player 1500 point each game done in less than 2 hours and at no point did anyone, despite having WILDLY different armies (triple knight, hodgepodge eldar, Sisters) did anyone feel like they were totally out of the running.
What happened to WHFB was awful but AoS has evolved into a pretty great game all things considered. Sure having both would be better but sometimes gak happens.
If you don't like it that's fine, but it has more to do with you not getting what you wanted out of it than any objective measure of quality.
Sorry if this has been covered, but I was flipping through the demo copy of my FLGS's SM index and I noticed that tac squad sergeants can only take weapons from the sergeants weapons list but combi-weapons are not on that list. This makes me think that unless I missed something I'm going to have to remodel ALL of my tactical squad sergeants....
godswildcard wrote: Sorry if this has been covered, but I was flipping through the demo copy of my FLGS's SM index and I noticed that tac squad sergeants can only take weapons from the sergeants weapons list but combi-weapons are not on that list. This makes me think that unless I missed something I'm going to have to remodel ALL of my tactical squad sergeants....
Am I wrong? Please tell me I'm wrong!
Nope, Sergeants still can use combi weapons just fine
godswildcard wrote: Sorry if this has been covered, but I was flipping through the demo copy of my FLGS's SM index and I noticed that tac squad sergeants can only take weapons from the sergeants weapons list but combi-weapons are not on that list. This makes me think that unless I missed something I'm going to have to remodel ALL of my tactical squad sergeants....
Am I wrong? Please tell me I'm wrong!
Nope, Sergeants still can use combi weapons just fine
Atia to the rescue and I'm off to reading comprehension class!
Probably something like "Strike back at those who want the master of mankind dead" or who "tried to see the master of mankind dead". Or there are those within the imperial palace who want that. Etc. He's already dead, I think if the story was that the throne has finally given out it would be worded differently than "he's dead, jim"
My guess would be some useless crap (like that measuring tool, some dice, maybe an old codex or out-of-print book)? Maybe an old sprue or a finecast figure they're doing away with. The obvious ideas are a t-shirt and keychain ...lol. Be curious to see what you get.
Probably a couple of badges and a flyer, I doubt there'll be anything much more exciting than that in there. They've definitely got primaris and death guard badges because they were giving away loads of them at warhammerfest.
*looks at the table of contents pages of the FW indices, looking for Chaos Renegades*
Ah, there they are, in the IG book for some reason. Wait..."Renegade Mutant Rabble." Could I use my old Lost and the Damned mutants for those? If so, and they have the Chaos keyword (why wouldn't they?) I'm totally doing a mixed force!
I'm going to interject some crazy speculations regarding the rumored Blood Angel Campaign (If it's so).
-Please don't put me on a rumor mill
So we know that it will involve the Blood Angels (And maybe a codex for them?)
And Chaos because Ka'Bandit is in town (Maybe normal Chaos, or Daemon, or even WE Codex?)
We also know the Hive Fleet Leviathan was warp blasted, but more will come
We also know that Necrons worked with the Blood Angels once (not even sure if they're still in the system.
I don't know about you guys, but I see a lot of potential here
Kharne the Befriender wrote: I'm going to interject some crazy speculations regarding the rumored Blood Angel Campaign (If it's so).
-Please don't put me on a rumor mill
So we know that it will involve the Blood Angels (And maybe a codex for them?)
And Chaos because Ka'Bandit is in town (Maybe normal Chaos, or Daemon, or even WE Codex?)
We also know the Hive Fleet Leviathan was warp blasted, but more will come
We also know that Necrons worked with the Blood Angels once (not even sure if they're still in the system.
I don't know about you guys, but I see a lot of potential here
I hope that if there is a Blood Angels v. Khorne campaign (didn't we already have this last year?!) that it is just a book and not a limited boxed set. Hopefully alongside a new Khorne Berserkers set. Possibly a plastic Lord on Juggernaut. I dunno. Blood Angels don't really need new models, most everything is still fairly new. Perhaps an upgrade kit for the eventual Primaris Marine multipart kits. But no exclusive kits.
Actually yeah, lack of Ferrum infernus and sonic dread is a bit of a problem for me. I made a thousand sons dread conversion with a plasma cannon a short while back because I felt it was the most thematic weapon choice, and now I can't fire it without overcharging because it's forced to proxy a helbrute.
changemod wrote: Actually yeah, lack of Ferrum infernus and sonic dread is a bit of a problem for me. I made a thousand sons dread conversion with a plasma cannon a short while back because I felt it was the most thematic weapon choice, and now I can't fire it without overcharging because it's forced to proxy a helbrute.
I think they're in there, but not listed as a specific entry.
Not sure if anyone else noticed this yet, but the FW Xenos index is listed on their Aussie site as coming soon, and one of the preview images is the table of contents for the book, showing what units are listed in it. It all looked pretty much as expected, with two notable exceptions.
1. We finally have a model with no new rules for 8th. The XV89 Crisis Suit is gone. It's not listed for Tau in the ToC. Both the XV81 and XV84 are as seperate Commander entries, but the XV89 is notably absent. Unless it got reworked into a general Crisis upgrade and is just listed under wargear options for the army (though that would still beg the question as to why it didn't rate a new unit page while the other two did), this guy's on his way out. The model is still available for purchase on the Aussie site at the time that I'm writing this. Hopefully this is a misprint or something or the rules for him are coming in the new IA book coming out, but if you like the model, you may want to jump on and order one as they may not be around much longer.
2. There are two new units listed. The TX7 Heavy Bombardment Hammerhead Gunship and the TX7 Fire Support Hammerhead Gunship. My first thought when I saw those were "That sounds a lot like Tau artillery!". My second thought was "Wait, FW gave Hammerheads a bunch of special turrets, a plasma one, a fusion one, and a missile one." So I checked the website. Not sure when it happened, but the plasma and fusion turrets are gone. Only the missile one is left. So now my mind has jumped back to thinking "Those sound a lot like artillery!!!" Whatever they are, they are apparently different enough from the normal Hammerhead to rate their own unit entry in the FW Index, as well as different enough from each other to rate seperate unit entries.
So, let's get some baseless speculation going! What is the fate of the XV89? Are we gonna say goodbye to that rather cool looking suit? What are these two new tanks we're apparently getting and what their profiles and weapons be like?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is there a way to cancel an order with GW? I meant to use a different payment method, and can't figure out how to change it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is there a way to cancel an order with GW? I meant to use a different payment method, and can't figure out how to change it.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Took the plunge and bought the starter set for the rulebook and sweet nurgly goodness.
I know it's probably just rumors at this point but do we have solid leads on when the rest of the Death Guard release will be coming?
Probably after the primaris marines codex, which is probably coming in july. The redemptor and grav primus stuff will be out before any DG. I'm not sure if there will be any AoS between the primus marines and death guard though.
Not sure about the swag bag but the freebies on offer if you bought everything at GW Coventry were:
* 4 Entries to our prize Draw to win a Studio Painted Mini from the game!
*Ticket to our V.I.Preview early access on release day!
*Ticket to our 'Iron Man' event on 24th June !
*Purity Seal!
*Presentation box!
*Primaris Marine!
*Exclusive Collectors Coin!
*Exclusive Primaris Marine Enamel pin badge!
*Framed A3 poster!
*Exclusive Range Ruler!
*Exclusive mission Sheet!
Can't you just take a Commander and 6 Infantry squads in a Battalion. Then another Battalion of the same.
Why try and fit it all in a Brigade when you can just spam battlions and take about 24 troop choices. Each battalion is like 300pts if you just take a commander, Commisar and 6 Infantry squads. So 24 Infantry squads with commander is just over 1200pts and you get +12CP in the process.
This leaves you with around 800pts to fill your 12 heavy, elite and fast slots.
Guimuss wrote: IG players, bend over and take it up the rear for another edition!
What I lose
6x Platoon Leaders
1x Master of Ordinance
1x Commisar
3x Tech Priests
3x Primaris Psychers
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squads
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Squads
1x Lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad
1x Special Weapons Squad
1x Tempestus Command Squad
2x Tempestus Scion Squads
So I've gained nothing and lost a crap ton of capabilities. No orders from platoon leaders, no tech priest repairs, no orbital strikes from the MOO, no psychic powers, no heavy weapons specific teams, no infantry Army that can do anything just be a wall of meat, that has no punch, or I take away my 8 elites and love almost half my horde to give myself slots for 1 guy. "Oh, yes I'll take away they vet squad for the Platoon commander, he can give my lasguns double the shot" NO, if you take another squad instead you already get the double the shots AND with them being vets you get better BS. Stupid GW, just stupid. So lets talk about how this effects us IG hordes, a very endangered Army now.
Platoon Leaders have always been a part of their units with not the loss of an entire slot for one gakky leader (and lets be honest the platoon leader is a gakky leader). Also the platoon leader is NOT worth 1 elite slot that can be filled by a number of more capable units, tempestus, ogryns, or even veterans!! Next, why do infantry platoons not include a collection of normal and specialized squads, just as they are today? Games workshop went ahead and fixed split fire and other basic "This is what they'd really do" rules, then why did they not keep the ones that they had right. Platoons have multiple squads and a heavy weapons squad (team, for warhammer) for specific reasons, so why drop in and force you to lose a tank slot for it?
Going forward with heavy weapons teams, why the hell would I take a heavy weapons team as a heavy weapons choice over a Leman Russ, or mortars over a Wyvern? They don't even come close to comparing and force IG to play more vehicle based which is something we should not have to be pigeon holed into. Lets take this into 2nd grader thinking, you can take 1, yes 1 heavy weapons team with 3 heavy weapons choice OR, you can take 1-3, yes up to 3! Leman Russ tanks, each being able to be equiped with up to 4 weapons. Which one would you rather fill that slot with? I know some people will be like "Well if you don't have enough points you just take the Heavy Weapons team and your still good cause it gives you options for smaller point values" ummmmm, no. Not at all. In the entire game up till now I would just NOT take the heavy weapons choice and add the heavy weapons team into my infantry platoon. No difference, I sitll have my Heavy weapons team. All this does is cause me to lose a VERY important slot now, or in my case I've lost 5 slots as stated in the next paragraph.
Lastly I have a total of 3 mortar heavy weapons teams, 2 rocket launcher heavy weapons teams, a lascannon heavy weapons team, 3 Wyverns, 3 Basilisks, and 1 Leman Russ. So my now 9 heavy weapons units DON'T fit your stupid BRIGADE Formation, which ONLY allows for up to 5, what Brigade can't fit that gak? In the old rules ALL my heavy weapons squads were part of a platoon, AS THEY SHOULD BE!!! And I could fit my vehicles into 3 heavy weapons slots. Makes sense, infantry support units go with the infantry and the heavy tanks do what they should and stay in heavy support. So thanks for fething everything up for anyone who cannot play IG as it was made to be played as a horde infantry Army cause it fething doesn't work.
Sorry for the rant but i'm pretty pissed if you couldn't tell
So the last think I have to say is I have about 100 Valhallan models that GW can buy back from me for making them obsolete, With inflation and Markup they can take them back for $20 each.
Or... hey, hold on: you could take a supreme command detachment to field 5 of thos lost commanders AND a spearhead detachment to field the remaining heavy support units. WOW!
Or you could take multiple detachments. Or you could ask people whether or not it can be done rather than clog half a page in a discussion about news talking about your grudges rather than doing so in the discussion forum.
Just read Atia's stuff on the the novel. (thanks for the whole coverage for 8th! )
Spoiler:
Surprised that RG hates the Primaris, I thought they were his pride and joy, looks like just Cawl's.
Kinda sad that the Emperor seems to have lost all of his humanity. I know sitting in a chair for 10,000 years will be a bit boring but if I was an Imperial citizen, I would be devastated to know that 'spark' has vanished from the one true leader of humanity.
Guimuss wrote: IG players, bend over and take it up the rear for another edition!
I'm going to be honest here as a horde IG player. The new IG setup sucks. Yes, Wyverns and Basilisks that I love have a huge improvement, but That is nothing when I cannot field my Army the way it is intended to be fielded (like GW said you'd be able to do)
So the new IG rules do NOT include Platoons as a troop choice, only Squads. What was so horrible to give IG their horde capability? I thought this new system was going to allow us to play as we wished and maintain the integrity of the formations. Now my 300 IG Valhallans cannot take the field even in a Brigade Formation since that only covers a total of 200 units IF I use Troops AND Veterans.
So my Infantry that looks like this....
3x Company Command Squads (15 models)
1x Yarrick (1 model)
1x Master of Ordinance (1 Model)
3x Primaris Psykers (3 Models)
3x Tech Priests (3 Models)
1x Commisar (1 Model)
6x Platoons (That include)
6x Platoon Command Squads (30 Models)
21x Squads (210 Models)
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Teams (9 models)
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Teams (6 models)
1x Las Cannon Heavy Weapons Team (3 models)
1x Special weapons team (6 models)
1x Tempestus Command Squad (5 models)
2x Tempestus Scion Squads (20 models)
=3 HQs, 6 Troops, 1 Elite (313 models) (this leaves my fast attack and heavy support alone for my Artillery support). BTW all my normal squads are equiped with a heavy weapons team as well.
4 HQs, 12 Troops, 8 Elites (204 models, loss of specialized units) (I can take Heavy weapons teams but lose my artillery support entirely IF I want my command points, so I lose out just to field my normal list)
What I lose
6x Platoon Leaders
1x Master of Ordinance
1x Commisar
3x Tech Priests
3x Primaris Psychers
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squads
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Squads
1x Lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad
1x Special Weapons Squad
1x Tempestus Command Squad
2x Tempestus Scion Squads
So I've gained nothing and lost a crap ton of capabilities. No orders from platoon leaders, no tech priest repairs, no orbital strikes from the MOO, no psychic powers, no heavy weapons specific teams, no infantry Army that can do anything just be a wall of meat, that has no punch, or I take away my 8 elites and love almost half my horde to give myself slots for 1 guy. "Oh, yes I'll take away they vet squad for the Platoon commander, he can give my lasguns double the shot" NO, if you take another squad instead you already get the double the shots AND with them being vets you get better BS. Stupid GW, just stupid. So lets talk about how this effects us IG hordes, a very endangered Army now.
Platoon Leaders have always been a part of their units with not the loss of an entire slot for one gakky leader (and lets be honest the platoon leader is a gakky leader). Also the platoon leader is NOT worth 1 elite slot that can be filled by a number of more capable units, tempestus, ogryns, or even veterans!! Next, why do infantry platoons not include a collection of normal and specialized squads, just as they are today? Games workshop went ahead and fixed split fire and other basic "This is what they'd really do" rules, then why did they not keep the ones that they had right. Platoons have multiple squads and a heavy weapons squad (team, for warhammer) for specific reasons, so why drop in and force you to lose a tank slot for it?
Going forward with heavy weapons teams, why the hell would I take a heavy weapons team as a heavy weapons choice over a Leman Russ, or mortars over a Wyvern? They don't even come close to comparing and force IG to play more vehicle based which is something we should not have to be pigeon holed into. Lets take this into 2nd grader thinking, you can take 1, yes 1 heavy weapons team with 3 heavy weapons choice OR, you can take 1-3, yes up to 3! Leman Russ tanks, each being able to be equiped with up to 4 weapons. Which one would you rather fill that slot with? I know some people will be like "Well if you don't have enough points you just take the Heavy Weapons team and your still good cause it gives you options for smaller point values" ummmmm, no. Not at all. In the entire game up till now I would just NOT take the heavy weapons choice and add the heavy weapons team into my infantry platoon. No difference, I sitll have my Heavy weapons team. All this does is cause me to lose a VERY important slot now, or in my case I've lost 5 slots as stated in the next paragraph.
Lastly I have a total of 3 mortar heavy weapons teams, 2 rocket launcher heavy weapons teams, a lascannon heavy weapons team, 3 Wyverns, 3 Basilisks, and 1 Leman Russ. So my now 9 heavy weapons units DON'T fit your stupid BRIGADE Formation, which ONLY allows for up to 5, what Brigade can't fit that gak? In the old rules ALL my heavy weapons squads were part of a platoon, AS THEY SHOULD BE!!! And I could fit my vehicles into 3 heavy weapons slots. Makes sense, infantry support units go with the infantry and the heavy tanks do what they should and stay in heavy support. So thanks for fething everything up for anyone who cannot play IG as it was made to be played as a horde infantry Army cause it fething doesn't work.
Sorry for the rant but i'm pretty pissed if you couldn't tell
So the last think I have to say is I have about 100 Valhallan models that GW can buy back from me for making them obsolete, With inflation and Markup they can take them back for $20 each.
Is there any reason you can't spread your guys out across multiple detachments, rake it extra Command Points and be sitting pretty? Or is there something about this I am missing?
I am not all that familiar with IG (and I admit, I switched off a bit when the WHTV guys were talking about them in the sample games) but they did definitely mention some huge Command Point totals.
- ruin 40k fluff (ultra ultra moronis marines)
- ruin 40k artwork (majority being the soulless, characterless cgi crap)
- ruin the look of minis (more and more busy/ cartoonish/ awful sculpts)
- ruin the rules (removing depth from the already shallow rules)
- ruin whfb (to say the least heh)
but someow they get a pass here? Disagree with the above if you want but you have to agree that a few years back, GW would be torn to bits for the changes like 8th edition brings. People were bashing them mercilessly because of Matt Ward, well Ward was nothing compared to girlyman riding moronis marines to victory, the latter is Marvel superhero level of crap. Are we happy there's hope now in 40k, was it too bleak and depressing?
Or is it because they "listen" now? Because they seem to be listening to the wrong people and imo this GW is magnitudes worse than the old, silent one.
I think most of the people who would have ripped into GW in the past have already left the building. That's why their sales are down year on year. 8th edition isn't meant for them, it's meant to attract new people in to replace them. It also need to attract new players in to replace all the ones it's going to drive away. I know looking at the new models I have no interest in super space marines or out of scale nurgle marines.
I'll save final judgement on the rules until I've played a demo or too, but nothing I've read have given me anything to get excited about.
Over the last month or so all these leaks have been coming out I know my interest for the game has all but disappeared after 23 years. However the recent FW announcement has made me think maybe focusing on 30K (and ignoring the horrible things they have done to the 40K fluff) will fill the void.
£250 for the limited edition, who the hell is buying that. That's basically a warhound titans body for emperors sake.
Yes, when I saw moronis marines, I thougt here's space marine for a Halo/ Starcraft crowd. Seeing the dread/ repulsor, I'm not that sure anymore heh.
I don't think the moronis marines models are bad, it's just the fluff that only a heavy retcon can fix. Also, imo they will look stupid on the table because of their size, current infantry models are already too big imo, bordering on toyish at times.
I'll check the ruleset as well, being the simpleton it is and assuming it's better balanced, it might be easier to houserule.
ERJAK wrote:GW sales have been up for 2 quarters now, probably because the vast majority of people are liking what they've been doing I would expect to see some pretty solid numbers for the foreseeable future as they're doing a much better job of attracting new players and getting older players interested again. As for people not 'ripping into' GW, H.B.M.C., tneva, seandrake, streetsamurai and oni should be deeply offended.
I'm talking about the well deserved, massive disdain. That a few fine gentlemen manage to keep the clear mind and save the forum's honour, doesn't mean that the overall mood isn't that of emthusiasm and anticipation. Does this edition deserve it, not at all in my opinion.
They released a few good boardgames and a lot of kits people wanted, so yeah sales might be ok. They sure are riding that wave of good will it created though.
Primaris marines are objectively superior models to normal space marines(seriously, even Calth marines look like lopsided dog crap in comparison.) and are very conservative in their adornments so I don't get what the ptoblem is there. The new art is w/e, old 40k art looked like john blanche drew his dreams after watching nothing but pornos and 'The Thing' for a week straight. Not better or worse, just different. As for the fluff? Meh, it's weird that people get upset about stuff like this. It's totally banal, 'oh they had a weapon and then they made a better weapon' I mean it's a bit weird for 40k but with all the other monumentus crap that's been happening not totally beyond the realm of possibility.
Fluff is awful also because of ultra Rowboat ex machina, it's quite frankly embarassing to read and imagine.
Artwork, not only old art but even 5/6 edition art is million times better than iphone game loading screen level filler of 7th and AoS.
Models are ok but too big, boring in multiples (looking forward to seeing them with beaky/ vadery helmets though tbh) and surely their tanks are anything but conservative heh. They are better proportioned but not as much better imo, anyway it's still wasted becase of the stupid size.
The rules for 8th are MASSIVELY superior and they removed unnecessary complexity not depth, it's as deep as it's ever been and it's fun again for the first time since the Eldar Codex dropped. I played a game yesterday and it feels almost exactly the same except we got a 3 player 1500 point each game done in less than 2 hours and at no point did anyone, despite having WILDLY different armies (triple knight, hodgepodge eldar, Sisters) did anyone feel like they were totally out of the running.
They removed complexity and depth, from a game already bordering on shallow.
What happened to WHFB was awful but AoS has evolved into a pretty great game all things considered. Sure having both would be better but sometimes gak happens.
I'm actualy quite grateful for GW for it. Seeing that awful new art in whfb army book could be traumatising, not to mention sigmarines in the old world, brrrr. Thank you, thank you GW, no sarcasm.
If you don't like it that's fine, but it has more to do with you not getting what you wanted out of it than any objective measure of quality.
I had zero expectations and am looking at it completly cold. Objective measures of quality, how about the depth of the game and where is it in 8th. They should have reduced useless compexity but add depth to core mechanics, but didn't.
unmercifulconker wrote: Just read Atia's stuff on the the novel. (thanks for the whole coverage for 8th! )
Spoiler:
Surprised that RG hates the Primaris, I thought they were his pride and joy, looks like just Cawl's.
Kinda sad that the Emperor seems to have lost all of his humanity. I know sitting in a chair for 10,000 years will be a bit boring but if I was an Imperial citizen, I would be devastated to know that 'spark' has vanished from the one true leader of humanity.
Wow, the spoilers have recover my faith completely in the Primaris narrative.
It's everywhere and you don't see it because ypu choose not to. Even just the changes to deepstrike and disembark have huge impact on the strategic aspects of the game.
Different strokes and all that, I personally thought 90% of WHFB art looked like it was done in crayon.
They added depth while removing complexity, which is what you generally want to go for.
Again, don't really agree, turns out stuff like that is subjective. Who knew? And what do you mean 'too big?' That's not a thing. They're space marine size, compared to current 'moderately tall dude' size.
And finally, blindly hating something forever isn't honorable, intelligent, or mature. GW in the past has done some cartoon supervillain crap and we should absolutely hold them accountable for that. But lately GW has seemed to be moving forward and becoming NOT a moustache-twirling parody of corporate culture and supporting those initiatives isn't any more wrong than looking at GW's past behavoir, looking at their current behavoir, and determining it's not good enough.
What you've done is laid judgement and determined that anyone who doesn't agree must be in some way inferior to you. Well I'm going to say that I do understand why you would hate GW, I get liking older art and fluff more (mostly because I don't like most of it and you clearly do so again, subjective!), dismissing the edition as 'shallow' without playing is silly but I think that's more symptomatic than anything, and that I disagree with your thesis and find your evidence to be insufficient to convince me you are correct. And since my position has mostly been to refute rather than convince I think we can safely end the whole wall of text thing in a typical internet stalemate.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have Sisters of Battle I need to paint for all the awesome games of 8th we're going to have in 2 weeks.
GI_Redshirt wrote: Not sure if anyone else noticed this yet, but the FW Xenos index is listed on their Aussie site as coming soon, and one of the preview images is the table of contents for the book, showing what units are listed in it. It all looked pretty much as expected, with two notable exceptions.
1. We finally have a model with no new rules for 8th. The XV89 Crisis Suit is gone. It's not listed for Tau in the ToC. Both the XV81 and XV84 are as seperate Commander entries, but the XV89 is notably absent. Unless it got reworked into a general Crisis upgrade and is just listed under wargear options for the army (though that would still beg the question as to why it didn't rate a new unit page while the other two did), this guy's on his way out. The model is still available for purchase on the Aussie site at the time that I'm writing this. Hopefully this is a misprint or something or the rules for him are coming in the new IA book coming out, but if you like the model, you may want to jump on and order one as they may not be around much longer.
It's not a typo but a continuation of an older change. The 2nd edition of IA3 Taros got rid of the xv89 as well and iirc in the fluff says that the program was discontinued and the existing suits changed back to regular ones. In the 7th ed Tau codex, the iridium suit upgrade effectively takes its place in the rules.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Took the plunge and bought the starter set for the rulebook and sweet nurgly goodness.
I know it's probably just rumors at this point but do we have solid leads on when the rest of the Death Guard release will be coming?
Probably after the primaris marines codex, which is probably coming in july. The redemptor and grav primus stuff will be out before any DG. I'm not sure if there will be any AoS between the primus marines and death guard though.
Not if what was said at warhammer fest was true. All books will be out by end of July according to what was said. Primaris and death guard will be out fairly fast after initial box drops
-Gamers Bundle (core rulebook, wound trackers, command dice, tactical cards, combat gage and objective markers)
-an extra wound tracker set
-an extra command dice set
-Imperium Index 1 Space Marines (for my Raven Guard, and my friends Dark Angels)
-Imperium Index 2 (starting a Gaunt's Ghost and Inquisition Warbands for SW:A, the index will let me expand them into armies if I feel like it).
-Xenos Index 2 (for my friend's Tau, and because I fancy trying out Tau or Tyranids myself one day).
It's everywhere and you don't see it because ypu choose not to. Even just the changes to deepstrike and disembark have huge impact on the strategic aspects of the game.
Different strokes and all that, I personally thought 90% of WHFB art looked like it was done in crayon.
They added depth while removing complexity, which is what you generally want to go for.
Again, don't really agree, turns out stuff like that is subjective. Who knew? And what do you mean 'too big?' That's not a thing. They're space marine size, compared to current 'moderately tall dude' size.
And finally, blindly hating something forever isn't honorable, intelligent, or mature. GW in the past has done some cartoon supervillain crap and we should absolutely hold them accountable for that. But lately GW has seemed to be moving forward and becoming NOT a moustache-twirling parody of corporate culture and supporting those initiatives isn't any more wrong than looking at GW's past behavoir, looking at their current behavoir, and determining it's not good enough.
What you've done is laid judgement and determined that anyone who doesn't agree must be in some way inferior to you. Well I'm going to say that I do understand why you would hate GW, I get liking older art and fluff more (mostly because I don't like most of it and you clearly do so again, subjective!), dismissing the edition as 'shallow' without playing is silly but I think that's more symptomatic than anything, and that I disagree with your thesis and find your evidence to be insufficient to convince me you are correct. And since my position has mostly been to refute rather than convince I think we can safely end the whole wall of text thing in a typical internet stalemate.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have Sisters of Battle I need to paint for all the awesome games of 8th we're going to have in 2 weeks.
I want to take the time to thank you for the time and effort you put into the above post; you have clearly framed much of what I have not had the time or patience to put to 'paper' today and with disarming politeness too, which I fear I would not have managed at all. Thank you and have an exalt!
Has there been any confirmation as to what rules GW will provide online?
For AOS they have the 4-page core ruleset and stats for individual units freely available. I was hoping similar pdfs (core + datasheets) would be up for 40K today but can't find them. I seem to recall the SWA pdf was up during pre-orders ... are they just waiting until release day to make them available for 40K? Thanks!
blckorder wrote: Has there been any confirmation as to what rules GW will provide online?
For AOS they have the 4-page core ruleset and stats for individual units freely available. I was hoping similar pdfs (core + datasheets) would be up for 40K today but can't find them. I seem to recall the SWA pdf was up during pre-orders ... are they just waiting until release day to make them available for 40K? Thanks!
Just rules. Nothing indicates datasheets being available for free.
MLaw wrote: Just ordered the boxed game and 4 indexes on TheWarstore for like $230.. what have I done
Even with the crisis in Spain today my FLGS has earn like 6.000€ in Preorders
(250€ are mine )
Drobbit reached the five digits, they had a big whale buy two limited editions. (amongst other things) We were aghast as our wallets shrivelled in shame.
MLaw wrote: Just ordered the boxed game and 4 indexes on TheWarstore for like $230.. what have I done
Even with the crisis in Spain today my FLGS has earn like 6.000€ in Preorders
(250€ are mine )
I think Frontline Gaming is my FLGS but I have not been there since we moved back to San Diego.. don't really even know where it is. Are the stores running demos of the new rules yet?
EDIT: I Was also disappointed that FW doesn't have the Xenos Index available (or they didn't when I looked). I've got loads of Ork goodies I really need stats for.
Guimuss wrote: IG players, bend over and take it up the rear for another edition!
I'm going to be honest here as a horde IG player. The new IG setup sucks. Yes, Wyverns and Basilisks that I love have a huge improvement, but That is nothing when I cannot field my Army the way it is intended to be fielded (like GW said you'd be able to do)
So the new IG rules do NOT include Platoons as a troop choice, only Squads. What was so horrible to give IG their horde capability? I thought this new system was going to allow us to play as we wished and maintain the integrity of the formations. Now my 300 IG Valhallans cannot take the field even in a Brigade Formation since that only covers a total of 200 units IF I use Troops AND Veterans.
So my Infantry that looks like this....
3x Company Command Squads (15 models)
1x Yarrick (1 model)
1x Master of Ordinance (1 Model)
3x Primaris Psykers (3 Models)
3x Tech Priests (3 Models)
1x Commisar (1 Model)
6x Platoons (That include)
6x Platoon Command Squads (30 Models)
21x Squads (210 Models)
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Teams (9 models)
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Teams (6 models)
1x Las Cannon Heavy Weapons Team (3 models)
1x Special weapons team (6 models)
1x Tempestus Command Squad (5 models)
2x Tempestus Scion Squads (20 models)
=3 HQs, 6 Troops, 1 Elite (313 models) (this leaves my fast attack and heavy support alone for my Artillery support). BTW all my normal squads are equiped with a heavy weapons team as well.
4 HQs, 12 Troops, 8 Elites (204 models, loss of specialized units) (I can take Heavy weapons teams but lose my artillery support entirely IF I want my command points, so I lose out just to field my normal list)
What I lose
6x Platoon Leaders
1x Master of Ordinance
1x Commisar
3x Tech Priests
3x Primaris Psychers
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squads
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Squads
1x Lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad
1x Special Weapons Squad
1x Tempestus Command Squad
2x Tempestus Scion Squads
So I've gained nothing and lost a crap ton of capabilities. No orders from platoon leaders, no tech priest repairs, no orbital strikes from the MOO, no psychic powers, no heavy weapons specific teams, no infantry Army that can do anything just be a wall of meat, that has no punch, or I take away my 8 elites and love almost half my horde to give myself slots for 1 guy. "Oh, yes I'll take away they vet squad for the Platoon commander, he can give my lasguns double the shot" NO, if you take another squad instead you already get the double the shots AND with them being vets you get better BS. Stupid GW, just stupid. So lets talk about how this effects us IG hordes, a very endangered Army now.
Platoon Leaders have always been a part of their units with not the loss of an entire slot for one gakky leader (and lets be honest the platoon leader is a gakky leader). Also the platoon leader is NOT worth 1 elite slot that can be filled by a number of more capable units, tempestus, ogryns, or even veterans!! Next, why do infantry platoons not include a collection of normal and specialized squads, just as they are today? Games workshop went ahead and fixed split fire and other basic "This is what they'd really do" rules, then why did they not keep the ones that they had right. Platoons have multiple squads and a heavy weapons squad (team, for warhammer) for specific reasons, so why drop in and force you to lose a tank slot for it?
Going forward with heavy weapons teams, why the hell would I take a heavy weapons team as a heavy weapons choice over a Leman Russ, or mortars over a Wyvern? They don't even come close to comparing and force IG to play more vehicle based which is something we should not have to be pigeon holed into. Lets take this into 2nd grader thinking, you can take 1, yes 1 heavy weapons team with 3 heavy weapons choice OR, you can take 1-3, yes up to 3! Leman Russ tanks, each being able to be equiped with up to 4 weapons. Which one would you rather fill that slot with? I know some people will be like "Well if you don't have enough points you just take the Heavy Weapons team and your still good cause it gives you options for smaller point values" ummmmm, no. Not at all. In the entire game up till now I would just NOT take the heavy weapons choice and add the heavy weapons team into my infantry platoon. No difference, I sitll have my Heavy weapons team. All this does is cause me to lose a VERY important slot now, or in my case I've lost 5 slots as stated in the next paragraph.
Lastly I have a total of 3 mortar heavy weapons teams, 2 rocket launcher heavy weapons teams, a lascannon heavy weapons team, 3 Wyverns, 3 Basilisks, and 1 Leman Russ. So my now 9 heavy weapons units DON'T fit your stupid BRIGADE Formation, which ONLY allows for up to 5, what Brigade can't fit that gak? In the old rules ALL my heavy weapons squads were part of a platoon, AS THEY SHOULD BE!!! And I could fit my vehicles into 3 heavy weapons slots. Makes sense, infantry support units go with the infantry and the heavy tanks do what they should and stay in heavy support. So thanks for fething everything up for anyone who cannot play IG as it was made to be played as a horde infantry Army cause it fething doesn't work.
Sorry for the rant but i'm pretty pissed if you couldn't tell
So the last think I have to say is I have about 100 Valhallan models that GW can buy back from me for making them obsolete, With inflation and Markup they can take them back for $20 each.
Nothing competes for slots, use more detachments. You have lost nothing in regards to fielding your army.
Platoon commanders still get voice of command, if anything they're better now because they get the same orders as a commander, and you can use any vox caster that happens to be nearby. As for why you'd ever use a heavy weapon squad over a leman russ, how about because a heavy weapon squad with 3 lascannons is a mere 72 points now? And a Leman Russ is 130 plus weapons.
Yeah, theres Detachments that literally have no troop requirements. I think this is the edition with most freedom to make the armies that you like and still be battleforged.
Just finished the Dark Imperium novel. Can confirm most of those rumours apart from the one about Guilliman's opinion of Primaris marines, which was 100% not the impression I got from the book.
Robin5t wrote: Just finished the Dark Imperium novel. Can confirm most of those rumours apart from the one about Guilliman's opinion of Primaris marines, which was 100% not the impression I got from the book.
Are there any quotes from the book which explicitly say his opinion? And would you recommend it?
Robin5t wrote: Just finished the Dark Imperium novel. Can confirm most of those rumours apart from the one about Guilliman's opinion of Primaris marines, which was 100% not the impression I got from the book.
Are there any quotes from the book which explicitly say his opinion? And would you recommend it?
Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered.
Yeah, I'd recommend it. It's an interesting read and a good character piece for the modern Guilliman.
Guimuss wrote: IG players, bend over and take it up the rear for another edition!
I'm going to be honest here as a horde IG player. The new IG setup sucks. Yes, Wyverns and Basilisks that I love have a huge improvement, but That is nothing when I cannot field my Army the way it is intended to be fielded (like GW said you'd be able to do)
So the new IG rules do NOT include Platoons as a troop choice, only Squads. What was so horrible to give IG their horde capability? I thought this new system was going to allow us to play as we wished and maintain the integrity of the formations. Now my 300 IG Valhallans cannot take the field even in a Brigade Formation since that only covers a total of 200 units IF I use Troops AND Veterans.
So my Infantry that looks like this....
3x Company Command Squads (15 models)
1x Yarrick (1 model)
1x Master of Ordinance (1 Model)
3x Primaris Psykers (3 Models)
3x Tech Priests (3 Models)
1x Commisar (1 Model)
6x Platoons (That include)
6x Platoon Command Squads (30 Models)
21x Squads (210 Models)
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Teams (9 models)
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Teams (6 models)
1x Las Cannon Heavy Weapons Team (3 models)
1x Special weapons team (6 models)
1x Tempestus Command Squad (5 models)
2x Tempestus Scion Squads (20 models)
=3 HQs, 6 Troops, 1 Elite (313 models) (this leaves my fast attack and heavy support alone for my Artillery support). BTW all my normal squads are equiped with a heavy weapons team as well.
4 HQs, 12 Troops, 8 Elites (204 models, loss of specialized units) (I can take Heavy weapons teams but lose my artillery support entirely IF I want my command points, so I lose out just to field my normal list)
What I lose
6x Platoon Leaders
1x Master of Ordinance
1x Commisar
3x Tech Priests
3x Primaris Psychers
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squads
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Squads
1x Lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad
1x Special Weapons Squad
1x Tempestus Command Squad
2x Tempestus Scion Squads
So I've gained nothing and lost a crap ton of capabilities. No orders from platoon leaders, no tech priest repairs, no orbital strikes from the MOO, no psychic powers, no heavy weapons specific teams, no infantry Army that can do anything just be a wall of meat, that has no punch, or I take away my 8 elites and love almost half my horde to give myself slots for 1 guy. "Oh, yes I'll take away they vet squad for the Platoon commander, he can give my lasguns double the shot" NO, if you take another squad instead you already get the double the shots AND with them being vets you get better BS. Stupid GW, just stupid. So lets talk about how this effects us IG hordes, a very endangered Army now.
Platoon Leaders have always been a part of their units with not the loss of an entire slot for one gakky leader (and lets be honest the platoon leader is a gakky leader). Also the platoon leader is NOT worth 1 elite slot that can be filled by a number of more capable units, tempestus, ogryns, or even veterans!! Next, why do infantry platoons not include a collection of normal and specialized squads, just as they are today? Games workshop went ahead and fixed split fire and other basic "This is what they'd really do" rules, then why did they not keep the ones that they had right. Platoons have multiple squads and a heavy weapons squad (team, for warhammer) for specific reasons, so why drop in and force you to lose a tank slot for it?
Going forward with heavy weapons teams, why the hell would I take a heavy weapons team as a heavy weapons choice over a Leman Russ, or mortars over a Wyvern? They don't even come close to comparing and force IG to play more vehicle based which is something we should not have to be pigeon holed into. Lets take this into 2nd grader thinking, you can take 1, yes 1 heavy weapons team with 3 heavy weapons choice OR, you can take 1-3, yes up to 3! Leman Russ tanks, each being able to be equiped with up to 4 weapons. Which one would you rather fill that slot with? I know some people will be like "Well if you don't have enough points you just take the Heavy Weapons team and your still good cause it gives you options for smaller point values" ummmmm, no. Not at all. In the entire game up till now I would just NOT take the heavy weapons choice and add the heavy weapons team into my infantry platoon. No difference, I sitll have my Heavy weapons team. All this does is cause me to lose a VERY important slot now, or in my case I've lost 5 slots as stated in the next paragraph.
Lastly I have a total of 3 mortar heavy weapons teams, 2 rocket launcher heavy weapons teams, a lascannon heavy weapons team, 3 Wyverns, 3 Basilisks, and 1 Leman Russ. So my now 9 heavy weapons units DON'T fit your stupid BRIGADE Formation, which ONLY allows for up to 5, what Brigade can't fit that gak? In the old rules ALL my heavy weapons squads were part of a platoon, AS THEY SHOULD BE!!! And I could fit my vehicles into 3 heavy weapons slots. Makes sense, infantry support units go with the infantry and the heavy tanks do what they should and stay in heavy support. So thanks for fething everything up for anyone who cannot play IG as it was made to be played as a horde infantry Army cause it fething doesn't work.
Sorry for the rant but i'm pretty pissed if you couldn't tell
So the last think I have to say is I have about 100 Valhallan models that GW can buy back from me for making them obsolete, With inflation and Markup they can take them back for $20 each.
Is there any reason you can't spread your guys out across multiple detachments, rake it extra Command Points and be sitting pretty? Or is there something about this I am missing?
I am not all that familiar with IG (and I admit, I switched off a bit when the WHTV guys were talking about them in the sample games) but they did definitely mention some huge Command Point totals.
The real bottleneck I see is that he's gone from having six Elite choices to having 22. Also a total absence of fast attack which locks out the Brigade detachment unfortunately.
If he could scare up six FA choices, he could fit the entire army into two brigades and a vanguard, ending with 22 command points.
Played my first game of 8th. Holy crap so much to unlearn. So many assumptions about how things play that need to go out the window.
I also understand why vehicles cost as much as they do now......SO DURABLE
I see why transports are so expensive. The mortal wounds on 1 is meh, however when you realize that units have to blow their entire load on the vehicle even if it has one wound to get to the guys inside....and then you can multi charge afterwards? Holy crap
Leth wrote: Played my first game of 8th. Holy crap so much to unlearn. So many assumptions about how things play that need to go out the window.
I also understand why vehicles cost as much as they do now......SO DURABLE
Great to hear about vehicles About to watch a batrep on YouTube.
So I watched a couple of bat reps myself; looks like any of the big singular units will take a lot to bring down, monster or vehicle.
I was happy to see one Marine player take a Land Raider and actually get the chance to use it, since it lasted until the end of the game while also doing significant damage. The guy still lost, mind, but that was because his opponent was more focused on the victory conditions and bottlenecked him with death Guard while using cheaper poxwalkers and cultists to capture the objectives.
Leth wrote: Played my first game of 8th. Holy crap so much to unlearn. So many assumptions about how things play that need to go out the window.
I also understand why vehicles cost as much as they do now......SO DURABLE
I see why transports are so expensive. The mortal wounds on 1 is meh, however when you realize that units have to blow their entire load on the vehicle even if it has one wound to get to the guys inside....and then you can multi charge afterwards? Holy crap
Charge shooting units with them. It's so good.
I had a land raider in the face of my rubrics. I fled to be able to shoot it with bigger guns, but it just kept not dying and shooting and charging over and over. Blocking my way to the objective as well.
I'm not sure if I should have stayed in combat with it and just had a stalemate until he decided to flee with it.
Robin5t wrote: Just finished the Dark Imperium novel. Can confirm most of those rumours apart from the one about Guilliman's opinion of Primaris marines, which was 100% not the impression I got from the book.
And what do you mean 'too big?' That's not a thing. They're space marine size, compared to current 'moderately tall dude' size.
Too big for gaming pieces, especialy when you take into account the typical game size. There's only so much you can fit on the table and the art of miniatures is that those are small, beautiful things. Making them bigger is not the trick.
The way to go was releasing new marines in the standard size, and then replacing IG humans with smaller ones. The IG range needs an update anyway and the actual number of people affected would be much smaller.
What you've done is laid judgement and determined that anyone who doesn't agree must be in some way inferior to you.
That sounds awful tbh. No I didn't, I just think I have a good understanding of what made 40k great once. Just posting what I think, I don't value people based on their opinion on nerdy games or pictures really.
dismissing the edition as 'shallow' without playing is silly but I think that's more symptomatic than anything
Seems exactly as silly as your claim that it's a MASSIVE improvement, after one game (if I understood correctly, one or a few doesn't change much here though anyway)
I think we can safely end the whole wall of text thing in a typical internet stalemate.
Von Marlon wrote: Anyone planning to use terminators or vindicators for a Death Guard army is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise. :(
If I had to guess, we know that they are coming out with death guard specific terminator units and so didnt include them in the index. Vindis, I have no idea on.
Von Marlon wrote: Anyone planning to use terminators or vindicators for a Death Guard army is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise. :(
If I had to guess, we know that they are coming out with death guard specific terminator units and so didnt include them in the index. Vindis, I have no idea on.
Surely you just use the ≤Chaos≥ keyword and you are sorted?
Von Marlon wrote: Anyone planning to use terminators or vindicators for a Death Guard army is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise. :(
If I had to guess, we know that they are coming out with death guard specific terminator units and so didnt include them in the index. Vindis, I have no idea on.
I hope so but as of right now you can't take them with the Chaos index rules for DG. The weird thing is that it specifically mentions about DG's extensive use of terminators in the description and then on the following page it says you can't take them.
Surely you just use the ≤Chaos≥ keyword and you are sorted?
Nope. it gives a list of what unmarked legion units you are allowed and specifically says if its not on the list, it can't be marked as DG and termies and vindi's ain't on the list.
Von Marlon wrote: Anyone planning to use terminators or vindicators for a Death Guard army is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise. :(
If I had to guess, we know that they are coming out with death guard specific terminator units and so didnt include them in the index. Vindis, I have no idea on.
I hope so but as of right now you can't take them with the Chaos index rules for DG. The weird thing is that it specifically mentions about DG's extensive use of terminators in the description and then on the following page it says you can't take them.
Surely you just use the ≤Chaos≥ keyword and you are sorted?
Nope. it gives a list of what unmarked legion units you are allowed and specifically says if its not on the list, it can't be marked as DG and termies and vindi's ain't on the list.
Yes, but ListentoMe's suggestion is that if you want Vindicators that you DON'T use the Death Guard keyword as your Detachment's main keyword, use one of the other 3 that they share.
skarsol wrote: /mourn the Sonic Dreadnaught. :( I wonder if the Contemptor will have the options it used to have.
Angry Slaanesh player here...
I wasn't holding out much hope that FW would come out with updated rules. No surprise really, it went for outdated or no rules for years despite them still selling the model. You can always just swap weapons profiles on the Helbrute with the new sonic weapons or just proxy the model as something else. My spent years proxying as a Soulgrinder. Knowing FW there will eventually release a Contemptor version for 30K someday.
Looks like I have secured the Nurgle half of Dark Imperium off someone!
Was going to buy full box, but that old wallet is a little tight at the moment :(
MLaw wrote: It's funny to me that GW flat out said that they're not blowing up the universe.
What they didn't say was that they were blowing up half the universe..
It's a lie by omission. Like when the Gathering Storm kicked off people asked them "Is this 40K's End Times?" and they responded with "End Times was specific to Warhammer Fantasy, not 40K". They're telling the truth, so they're not technically lying, but they're also not telling the whole truth.
Anyway, the old Marines' days are numbered huh? What a shock!
Robin5t wrote: Just finished the Dark Imperium novel. Can confirm most of those rumours apart from the one about Guilliman's opinion of Primaris marines, which was 100% not the impression I got from the book.
Are there any quotes from the book which explicitly say his opinion? And would you recommend it?
Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered.
Yeah, I'd recommend it. It's an interesting read and a good character piece for the modern Guilliman.
Now I am tempted very cool!
Seems like its a bit more complex than many people are giving it credit for.
MLaw wrote: It's funny to me that GW flat out said that they're not blowing up the universe.
What they didn't say was that they were blowing up half the universe..
It's a lie by omission. Like when the Gathering Storm kicked off people asked them "Is this 40K's End Times?" and they responded with "End Times was specific to Warhammer Fantasy, not 40K". They're telling the truth, so they're not technically lying, but they're also not telling the whole truth.
Anyway, the old Marines' days are numbered huh? What a shock!
I agree the end times bit is certainly a lie by omission, but I would say the statement that they aren't blowing up the universe is not. The warp rift splitting the galaxy is apocalyptic sure, but not at all analogous to what happened with WHFB. The galaxy is still there, its a same galaxy, just messed up (more). It's not like it was vaporized and an entirely new one was introduced using different laws of reality.
With regular Space Marines days being numbered in the fluff I would still expect it to be a long time both story and model wise before they are actually gone. Yes, old marines are probably going to be phased out, but not at a faster pace than the kits would have been replaced by newer sculpts in the past. I expect it will be a decade before old-marines are really gone from the product line, and that's assuming they don't change their mind.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'd like to see a Looted Grav Raider. Rather than the big thick flightstand you just model a whole mess of Gretchin underneath it, carrying it along.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'd like to see a Looted Grav Raider. Rather than the big thick flightstand you just model a whole mess of Gretchin underneath it, carrying it along.
Like the good old Greasus Goldtooth. I like the idea
Robin5t wrote: Just finished the Dark Imperium novel. Can confirm most of those rumours apart from the one about Guilliman's opinion of Primaris marines, which was 100% not the impression I got from the book.
Do they mention anything about the future of the chapters? will they still make marines from their regular geneseed in addition to primaris? is making a current marine primaris spoken of? if its a difficult process i could see maybe Dante and a few others getting upgraded, but if its easy then maybe all will soon be upgraded. any info would be appreciated! thanks
Shadow Walker wrote: Found on vk (Russian fb I believe) - check the ''classified'' - looks like Emperor is ... dead?
TERRA RETALIATES
In an Effort to seize the initiative, a strike
force was mustered on Terra, supported
by an entire army of Adeptus Custodes.
The Custodes found Guilliman the
Primarch of the __________ Forged
_____________________________
________________ those who want the Master of Mankind dead.
Thanks for the ongoing support guys, could not have done it without you, especially for this long!
The PMs every morning, and throughout the day, is what is keeping the OP so full of information!
Excellent news! Was hoping it would make it. And the summary is gratefully appreciated. Have been able to direct a couple of non- dakkites there for information.
Thanks for the ongoing support guys, could not have done it without you, especially for this long!
The PMs every morning, and throughout the day, is what is keeping the OP so full of information!
Excellent news! Was hoping it would make it. And the summary is gratefully appreciated. Have been able to direct a couple of non- dakkites there for information.
Glad to hear it has been of use, time well spent on updating then in my opinion
Guimuss wrote: IG players, bend over and take it up the rear for another edition!
I'm going to be honest here as a horde IG player. The new IG setup sucks. Yes, Wyverns and Basilisks that I love have a huge improvement, but That is nothing when I cannot field my Army the way it is intended to be fielded (like GW said you'd be able to do)
So the new IG rules do NOT include Platoons as a troop choice, only Squads. What was so horrible to give IG their horde capability? I thought this new system was going to allow us to play as we wished and maintain the integrity of the formations. Now my 300 IG Valhallans cannot take the field even in a Brigade Formation since that only covers a total of 200 units IF I use Troops AND Veterans.
So my Infantry that looks like this....
3x Company Command Squads (15 models)
1x Yarrick (1 model)
1x Master of Ordinance (1 Model)
3x Primaris Psykers (3 Models)
3x Tech Priests (3 Models)
1x Commisar (1 Model)
6x Platoons (That include)
6x Platoon Command Squads (30 Models)
21x Squads (210 Models)
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Teams (9 models)
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Teams (6 models)
1x Las Cannon Heavy Weapons Team (3 models)
1x Special weapons team (6 models)
1x Tempestus Command Squad (5 models)
2x Tempestus Scion Squads (20 models)
=3 HQs, 6 Troops, 1 Elite (313 models) (this leaves my fast attack and heavy support alone for my Artillery support). BTW all my normal squads are equiped with a heavy weapons team as well.
4 HQs, 12 Troops, 8 Elites (204 models, loss of specialized units) (I can take Heavy weapons teams but lose my artillery support entirely IF I want my command points, so I lose out just to field my normal list)
What I lose
6x Platoon Leaders
1x Master of Ordinance
1x Commisar
3x Tech Priests
3x Primaris Psychers
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squads
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Squads
1x Lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad
1x Special Weapons Squad
1x Tempestus Command Squad
2x Tempestus Scion Squads
So I've gained nothing and lost a crap ton of capabilities. No orders from platoon leaders, no tech priest repairs, no orbital strikes from the MOO, no psychic powers, no heavy weapons specific teams, no infantry Army that can do anything just be a wall of meat, that has no punch, or I take away my 8 elites and love almost half my horde to give myself slots for 1 guy. "Oh, yes I'll take away they vet squad for the Platoon commander, he can give my lasguns double the shot" NO, if you take another squad instead you already get the double the shots AND with them being vets you get better BS. Stupid GW, just stupid. So lets talk about how this effects us IG hordes, a very endangered Army now.
Platoon Leaders have always been a part of their units with not the loss of an entire slot for one gakky leader (and lets be honest the platoon leader is a gakky leader). Also the platoon leader is NOT worth 1 elite slot that can be filled by a number of more capable units, tempestus, ogryns, or even veterans!! Next, why do infantry platoons not include a collection of normal and specialized squads, just as they are today? Games workshop went ahead and fixed split fire and other basic "This is what they'd really do" rules, then why did they not keep the ones that they had right. Platoons have multiple squads and a heavy weapons squad (team, for warhammer) for specific reasons, so why drop in and force you to lose a tank slot for it?
Going forward with heavy weapons teams, why the hell would I take a heavy weapons team as a heavy weapons choice over a Leman Russ, or mortars over a Wyvern? They don't even come close to comparing and force IG to play more vehicle based which is something we should not have to be pigeon holed into. Lets take this into 2nd grader thinking, you can take 1, yes 1 heavy weapons team with 3 heavy weapons choice OR, you can take 1-3, yes up to 3! Leman Russ tanks, each being able to be equiped with up to 4 weapons. Which one would you rather fill that slot with? I know some people will be like "Well if you don't have enough points you just take the Heavy Weapons team and your still good cause it gives you options for smaller point values" ummmmm, no. Not at all. In the entire game up till now I would just NOT take the heavy weapons choice and add the heavy weapons team into my infantry platoon. No difference, I sitll have my Heavy weapons team. All this does is cause me to lose a VERY important slot now, or in my case I've lost 5 slots as stated in the next paragraph.
Lastly I have a total of 3 mortar heavy weapons teams, 2 rocket launcher heavy weapons teams, a lascannon heavy weapons team, 3 Wyverns, 3 Basilisks, and 1 Leman Russ. So my now 9 heavy weapons units DON'T fit your stupid BRIGADE Formation, which ONLY allows for up to 5, what Brigade can't fit that gak? In the old rules ALL my heavy weapons squads were part of a platoon, AS THEY SHOULD BE!!! And I could fit my vehicles into 3 heavy weapons slots. Makes sense, infantry support units go with the infantry and the heavy tanks do what they should and stay in heavy support. So thanks for fething everything up for anyone who cannot play IG as it was made to be played as a horde infantry Army cause it fething doesn't work.
Sorry for the rant but i'm pretty pissed if you couldn't tell
So the last think I have to say is I have about 100 Valhallan models that GW can buy back from me for making them obsolete, With inflation and Markup they can take them back for $20 each.
Is there any reason you can't spread your guys out across multiple detachments, rake it extra Command Points and be sitting pretty? Or is there something about this I am missing?
I am not all that familiar with IG (and I admit, I switched off a bit when the WHTV guys were talking about them in the sample games) but they did definitely mention some huge Command Point totals.
The real bottleneck I see is that he's gone from having six Elite choices to having 22. Also a total absence of fast attack which locks out the Brigade detachment unfortunately.
If he could scare up six FA choices, he could fit the entire army into two brigades and a vanguard, ending with 22 command points.
Without adding any FA, he should still be able to fit into 3 Battalions and a Vanguard for 13 command points
Guimuss wrote: IG players, bend over and take it up the rear for another edition!
I'm going to be honest here as a horde IG player. The new IG setup sucks. Yes, Wyverns and Basilisks that I love have a huge improvement, but That is nothing when I cannot field my Army the way it is intended to be fielded (like GW said you'd be able to do)
So the new IG rules do NOT include Platoons as a troop choice, only Squads. What was so horrible to give IG their horde capability? I thought this new system was going to allow us to play as we wished and maintain the integrity of the formations. Now my 300 IG Valhallans cannot take the field even in a Brigade Formation since that only covers a total of 200 units IF I use Troops AND Veterans.
So my Infantry that looks like this....
3x Company Command Squads (15 models)
1x Yarrick (1 model)
1x Master of Ordinance (1 Model)
3x Primaris Psykers (3 Models)
3x Tech Priests (3 Models)
1x Commisar (1 Model)
6x Platoons (That include)
6x Platoon Command Squads (30 Models)
21x Squads (210 Models)
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Teams (9 models)
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Teams (6 models)
1x Las Cannon Heavy Weapons Team (3 models)
1x Special weapons team (6 models)
1x Tempestus Command Squad (5 models)
2x Tempestus Scion Squads (20 models)
=3 HQs, 6 Troops, 1 Elite (313 models) (this leaves my fast attack and heavy support alone for my Artillery support). BTW all my normal squads are equiped with a heavy weapons team as well.
4 HQs, 12 Troops, 8 Elites (204 models, loss of specialized units) (I can take Heavy weapons teams but lose my artillery support entirely IF I want my command points, so I lose out just to field my normal list)
What I lose
6x Platoon Leaders
1x Master of Ordinance
1x Commisar
3x Tech Priests
3x Primaris Psychers
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squads
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Squads
1x Lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad
1x Special Weapons Squad
1x Tempestus Command Squad
2x Tempestus Scion Squads
So I've gained nothing and lost a crap ton of capabilities. No orders from platoon leaders, no tech priest repairs, no orbital strikes from the MOO, no psychic powers, no heavy weapons specific teams, no infantry Army that can do anything just be a wall of meat, that has no punch, or I take away my 8 elites and love almost half my horde to give myself slots for 1 guy. "Oh, yes I'll take away they vet squad for the Platoon commander, he can give my lasguns double the shot" NO, if you take another squad instead you already get the double the shots AND with them being vets you get better BS. Stupid GW, just stupid. So lets talk about how this effects us IG hordes, a very endangered Army now.
Platoon Leaders have always been a part of their units with not the loss of an entire slot for one gakky leader (and lets be honest the platoon leader is a gakky leader). Also the platoon leader is NOT worth 1 elite slot that can be filled by a number of more capable units, tempestus, ogryns, or even veterans!! Next, why do infantry platoons not include a collection of normal and specialized squads, just as they are today? Games workshop went ahead and fixed split fire and other basic "This is what they'd really do" rules, then why did they not keep the ones that they had right. Platoons have multiple squads and a heavy weapons squad (team, for warhammer) for specific reasons, so why drop in and force you to lose a tank slot for it?
Going forward with heavy weapons teams, why the hell would I take a heavy weapons team as a heavy weapons choice over a Leman Russ, or mortars over a Wyvern? They don't even come close to comparing and force IG to play more vehicle based which is something we should not have to be pigeon holed into. Lets take this into 2nd grader thinking, you can take 1, yes 1 heavy weapons team with 3 heavy weapons choice OR, you can take 1-3, yes up to 3! Leman Russ tanks, each being able to be equiped with up to 4 weapons. Which one would you rather fill that slot with? I know some people will be like "Well if you don't have enough points you just take the Heavy Weapons team and your still good cause it gives you options for smaller point values" ummmmm, no. Not at all. In the entire game up till now I would just NOT take the heavy weapons choice and add the heavy weapons team into my infantry platoon. No difference, I sitll have my Heavy weapons team. All this does is cause me to lose a VERY important slot now, or in my case I've lost 5 slots as stated in the next paragraph.
Lastly I have a total of 3 mortar heavy weapons teams, 2 rocket launcher heavy weapons teams, a lascannon heavy weapons team, 3 Wyverns, 3 Basilisks, and 1 Leman Russ. So my now 9 heavy weapons units DON'T fit your stupid BRIGADE Formation, which ONLY allows for up to 5, what Brigade can't fit that gak? In the old rules ALL my heavy weapons squads were part of a platoon, AS THEY SHOULD BE!!! And I could fit my vehicles into 3 heavy weapons slots. Makes sense, infantry support units go with the infantry and the heavy tanks do what they should and stay in heavy support. So thanks for fething everything up for anyone who cannot play IG as it was made to be played as a horde infantry Army cause it fething doesn't work.
Sorry for the rant but i'm pretty pissed if you couldn't tell
So the last think I have to say is I have about 100 Valhallan models that GW can buy back from me for making them obsolete, With inflation and Markup they can take them back for $20 each.
Is there any reason you can't spread your guys out across multiple detachments, rake it extra Command Points and be sitting pretty? Or is there something about this I am missing?
I am not all that familiar with IG (and I admit, I switched off a bit when the WHTV guys were talking about them in the sample games) but they did definitely mention some huge Command Point totals.
The real bottleneck I see is that he's gone from having six Elite choices to having 22. Also a total absence of fast attack which locks out the Brigade detachment unfortunately.
If he could scare up six FA choices, he could fit the entire army into two brigades and a vanguard, ending with 22 command points.
Without adding any FA, he should still be able to fit into 3 Battalions and a Vanguard for 13 command points
Oh, indeed, I was just trying to stick with the tournament guidelines for numbers of detachments because, even with all those dudes, that's not a huge number of points.
I think this just shows off the flexibility of the new system though; you can pull together lots of little detachments or a few huge ones but the additional requirements of the latter have a clear benefit on top of the value of the units themselves.
Von Marlon wrote: Anyone planning to use terminators or vindicators for a Death Guard army is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise. :(
Not just them. Chosen, havocs, bikers etc
What made me laugh though was the blurb at the beginning of the death guard entry whrre it goes on about massrd infantry, terminators and daemon engines before promptly removing all of them. We did get to keep the defiler though.
Obbiously we've seen the DG terminators and know they're coming. What im mainly interested in is what are they replacing the other stuff with?
DG should have access to chosen, havocs, vindicators etc. I can only hope it means DG will have their own variations on these units and daemon engines
Ok, I took notes on Frankie and Reece's gameplay opinions. They also did a rules overview but you guys can read the books yourselves. The stream was like 6 hours so I'm sure I missed a few things, but here you go. Good stuff list is just some of the units/rules they called out. Absence from the list does not imply unit is bad. Very few units/armies were called out as being actually bad. Long post is long. General Stuff Snipers will generally need a couple turns to kill a character. 3 Vindicares is about the level to kill a character a turn. Hit or miss depending on the army you're playing against.
60-90 minute games once you're used to rules and playing quickly. Game shouldn't go longer than 2.5 hours. (2k points)
If a unit has a default weapon on their datasheet, but can replace it with something else, you don't need to buy that default weapon. FLG will put out a spreadsheet for list building.
Screening units are going to be important. First turn charges are possible.
Tanks are a lot harder to kill.
Shooting pistols in combat is just ok in practice, combat is usually over before they can be used.
Weapons were pointed for their specific army, not cross-compared
Ballistari are awesome (both shooting and cc)
Reroll was most used CP
Abilities that prevent falling back are very good
Smite is a solid power for most armies. Smite spam can be pretty strong.
Deathguard one of the weaker armies for now
Tau overwatch is even better than 7th
Averaging around 6 CPs with most armies. Build towards a better army, not to spam CP.
Imperial Knights always go first
LOS blocking terrain really important, recommend 2-4 pieces at least.
Top 5 factions (Not in order, subject to change): Frankie (Marines, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Orks, Nids) Reece (Harlequins, Scions, Nids, Orks, Marines)
Bottom 5 (Eldar, Inquisition, Demons, Legion of the Damned)
Favorite Rule Change: ICs can't join units
Least Favorite: Exploding Vehicles
Reece: "Open Topped vehicles that can fly are the best vehicles in the game"
Harlequins one of the best armies in the game. Big on Dark Eldar too.
VSG is still really good
Marines
Reece: "Missile Launchers are probably the best ranged weapon in the game"
Lascannon Centurions w/ an Apothecary is a strong unit
Crusader weakest LR variant. Godhammer probably best of three stock variants.
Grey Knights fragile but hit hard. Recommend Paladins
Jump Pack BA are good. Dante + Sanguinor beats your face.
Aura buffs and their interactions are the big part of list building.
Good Space Wolves stuff: Blood/Swift Claws, Wulfen, Rune Priest, Wolf Guard w/ Combis
Get more mileage out of bigger units in general (Blood Claws, 6 Centurions, etc)
Servitors are terrible. Fenrisian wolves are bad.
Super expensive units are usually resilient enough to still do some work.
Drop reserves first during deployment.
Dark Angels better then they have ever been. Deathwing Knights, Azrael, Black Knights
Land Speeders w/ 2 heavy flamers is secret sauce.
Don't need anti-air weapons
Flyers are hit and miss. They don't use them that much
Grav is still good, just not auto take.
BA one of the best CC armies
Vindicator sucks
Rowboat is so stronk.
Guard
Manticore probably best Guard artillery. Basilisks and Wyverns good too.
Need to be cognizant of all your Guard characters not being part of a unit now.
Good Guard stuff: Bullgryn w/ Primaris, Rough riders, Scout Sentinels w/ heavy flamer, Scions, Yarrick one of best HQs in game, Taurox Prime OP, Astropaths
Executioner plasma is bad. Battlecannons is good. Double battlecannons on Knights one of the best loadouts.
Stormlord is best superheavy
Index Imperial 2 other stuff
Mechanicus good stuff: Cawl, Electro Priests (shooty and choppy), Iron Striders, Dragoons.
Rangers lackluster, but overall Mechanics units are solid
Knights are one of the stronger armies. 3-4 Knights tough to deal with.
Shooty Knights are better. Stomps better than the sword.
Sisters good stuff: Acts, Celestine (must take), heavy flamers, Repentia, Penitents, Full mech, Priests
Sisters of Silence flamers are best, swords are meh.
Plasma Acolytes + Coteaz
Custodes play pretty much the same.
Orks
Orks good stuff: Jumping Shoota Boys, Meganobz or Gitz, Bosses, Big Meks, Nauts, Burnas, Tankbustas, Big Choppas, Stormboyz, Rokkits, Lootas.
Boyz do a lot more damage. Trukks and sloggers both work. Nobs way better
Dakkajet one of the best flyers.
Stompa is worth the points.
Buggies/Skorchas way better.
Wagon w/ rolla good in combat, hard to kill even w/o 'ard case.
Put skorchas on your walkers. Put wrecking balls on your trukks.
Meganobs good for soaking overwatch
Likes Lootas over Bustas because of range
Tau
Tau good stuff: Crisis Suit armies, Missile pods, Commanders, Stormsurge, Kroot w/ aura buffs, Savior protocols, Sniper drones.
Didn't miss JsJ
Regular Commander > Coldstar
Riptides not so good. Don't usually take more than one.
Fish of Fury is decent. Frankie big on suit armies.
HRR and HYMP both good choices for Broadsides.
Vespids are decent
Tyranids
Tyranids good stuff: Psychic powers, Swarmlord, Swarmlord, Swarmlord, Broodlord (best HQ), genestealers, Prime (2nd best HQ), adrenal glands on all the things, Rippers, Hive Guard, Venomthropes (auto include), Biovores, Damn near everything apparently.
Flyrants still good, but not like 7th.
Tervigon is just ok. Warriors a lot better than before. Termagaunts just ok, Hormaguants awesome. Zoanthropes meh. Pyrovores in a pod are pretty good. Harpy/Crone ok. T-fex not very good
Reece: "Tyrannocyte one of the best transports in the game"
Tyranids can put out lots of mortal wounds from different sources
Lots of deployment options. All medium bugs build is probably hardest to pull off. Nidzalla is really good.
Genestealer cults
Cult good stuff: Ambush, Unquestioned loyalty, Patriarch, psychic powers, Magus, Primus, Acolyte hybrids, the good Guard stuff, the good Nid stuff, Standard Bearer, Goliath
Psychic powers some of the best in game. Unquestioned loyalty one of the strongest rules
MSU is a good strategy. Glass cannon army. Spamming demo charges is good
Eldar
Eldar good stuff: Phoenix Lords except Baharroth, Noobdrad, Avatar, Farseers, Warlocks, Storm Guardians, Wraiths, Dire Avengers, Scorpions, Wave Serpents, Shining Spears, Distort
Eldar got the bat, the world rejoices.
Shuri Cannon > Scatter laser
Wraithlords way better. Banshees super fast, Hawks are ok. Warp Spiders not as good as before. Playstyle is pretty similar to 7th
Fire Prisms are ok. Low damage output
Sun Cannon + Shield is best Knight loadout
Ynnari way better than straight Craftworld
Dark Eldar
Good DE Stuff: Power from Pain, Transports, Drugs, Lillith, No Escape, Drazor + Incubi, Kabalite Warriors, Mandrakes, Reaver jetbikes, Hellions, Flyers, Heat Lance
Archons not that good
No rerollable 2++
MSU not as good. Take 10 man squads
Best flyers
Raiders are hard to kill. Reece "Best transport in the game"
Probably most improved army. One of the best.
Blood Brides > Wyches
Harlequins
Reece and Frankie: "One of the best armies in the game"
Good Harle Stuffs: Psychic powers, Rising Crescendo, Star Weaver, Fusion pistols, Solitaire, Shadow Seer (Best HQ)
Faster than you, shoot better than you, fight better than you.
Just bumrush with Star Weavers and win.
Necrons
Good Necron Stuff: RP, Overlord + Lord + Cryptek, Named Characters, Immortals, Big warrior bricks, Deathmarks, Flayed Ones, Quantum Shielding
Character auras are really powerful and important
Heavy Destros and Warriors for anti-vehicle
Heavy Destros > Doomsday Ark
Wraiths not as good as before
Illuminor is key
Tesserach Vault is too expensive
Very resilient army
CSM
Chaos Marines good stuff: Abbadon, Predators, Havocs, Dark Apostle, Warp smith, Marine troops, Cultists, Chosen, Terminators w/ Warp Time, Berserkers, Warp Talons, Raptors, Maulerfiends, Defilers, Kharne, Magnus,Typhus, Nurglings
Huron not that great. Cypher is ok. Possessed are meh. Mutilators are not that good. Forge Fiends are better but still just ok
Chaos Knights > Lord of Skulls
Magnus is beast
Cultists probably best troops especially w/ Abbadon
Berserker hype is real
Hide in MEHTAL BAWKSES
Demons
Demon good stuff: Princes hiding like little girls, Skarbrand, Khorne and Slaanesh, Tzeentch heralds on discs, Epidermus
Fatey not as good as before. LoC is ok.
Blue Horror split is still good
Reece: "Nurglings are one of the best units in the game"
Automatically Appended Next Post: "Death Guard are one of the weaker factions for now" :(
Von Marlon wrote: Anyone planning to use terminators or vindicators for a Death Guard army is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise. :(
Not just them. Chosen, havocs, bikers etc
What made me laugh though was the blurb at the beginning of the death guard entry whrre it goes on about massrd infantry, terminators and daemon engines before promptly removing all of them. We did get to keep the defiler though.
Obbiously we've seen the DG terminators and know they're coming. What im mainly interested in is what are they replacing the other stuff with?
DG should have access to chosen, havocs, vindicators etc. I can only hope it means DG will have their own variations on these units and daemon engines
I don't even know why they bothered with Legion restrictions in the Index. Until proper codexes come out, you can just make a CHAOS keyword army anyway and mix and match whatever.
MLaw wrote: It's funny to me that GW flat out said that they're not blowing up the universe.
What they didn't say was that they were blowing up half the universe..
It's a lie by omission. Like when the Gathering Storm kicked off people asked them "Is this 40K's End Times?" and they responded with "End Times was specific to Warhammer Fantasy, not 40K". They're telling the truth, so they're not technically lying, but they're also not telling the whole truth.
Anyway, the old Marines' days are numbered huh? What a shock!
sure, b ut numbered in the IoM means "in about a thousand years or so" the table top time has us playing in that "akward transition phase" where you have both!
MLaw wrote: It's funny to me that GW flat out said that they're not blowing up the universe.
What they didn't say was that they were blowing up half the universe..
It's a lie by omission. Like when the Gathering Storm kicked off people asked them "Is this 40K's End Times?" and they responded with "End Times was specific to Warhammer Fantasy, not 40K". They're telling the truth, so they're not technically lying, but they're also not telling the whole truth.
Anyway, the old Marines' days are numbered huh? What a shock!
sure, b ut numbered in the IoM means "in about a thousand years or so" the table top time has us playing in that "akward transition phase" where you have both!
Good to see people holding on to hope.
Anyone who has witnessed the company running its business for any length of time can see the writing on the wall though.
Rippy wrote: FLG will put out a spreadsheet for list building.
Which I'm sure every player in the world will accept as gospel, right? Wouldn't it be better for GW to do this?
Rippy wrote: Shooting pistols in combat is just ok in practice, combat is usually over before they can be used.
Then why even have it as a rule?
Rippy wrote: Deathguard one of the weaker armies for now
Crusader weakest LR variant. Godhammer probably best of three stock variants.
Servitors are terrible. Fenrisian wolves are bad.
Vindicator sucks
Executioner plasma is bad.
Riptides not so good. Don't usually take more than one.
Tervigon is just ok.
Zoanthropes meh.
T-fex not very good
Ynnari way better than straight Craftworld
Archons not that good
Tesserach Vault is too expensive
Possessed are meh.
Mutilators are not that good.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't their job to play-test all of this? Granted, the company making the game is always well within their rights to ignore whatever they want from outside sources, but if Reese et al. were play-testing these games then why is the above list a problem?
MLaw wrote: It's funny to me that GW flat out said that they're not blowing up the universe.
What they didn't say was that they were blowing up half the universe..
It's a lie by omission. Like when the Gathering Storm kicked off people asked them "Is this 40K's End Times?" and they responded with "End Times was specific to Warhammer Fantasy, not 40K". They're telling the truth, so they're not technically lying, but they're also not telling the whole truth.
Anyway, the old Marines' days are numbered huh? What a shock!
sure, b ut numbered in the IoM means "in about a thousand years or so" the table top time has us playing in that "akward transition phase" where you have both!
You think that in game time periods reflect business decisions and sales tactics? 1000 in game years could equal six months product time
For all you know
Rippy wrote: FLG will put out a spreadsheet for list building.
Which I'm sure every player in the world will accept as gospel, right? Wouldn't it be better for GW to do this?
Rippy wrote: Shooting pistols in combat is just ok in practice, combat is usually over before they can be used.
Then why even have it as a rule?
Rippy wrote: Deathguard one of the weaker armies for now
Crusader weakest LR variant. Godhammer probably best of three stock variants.
Servitors are terrible. Fenrisian wolves are bad.
Vindicator sucks
Executioner plasma is bad.
Riptides not so good. Don't usually take more than one.
Tervigon is just ok.
Zoanthropes meh.
T-fex not very good
Ynnari way better than straight Craftworld
Archons not that good
Tesserach Vault is too expensive
Possessed are meh.
Mutilators are not that good.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't their job to play-test all of this? Granted, the company making the game is always well within their rights to ignore whatever they want from outside sources, but if Reese et al. were play-testing these games then why is the above list a problem?
Well it is pretty obvious that Deathguard will be getting a new codex very soon. It is pretty easy to imagine that they will be getting some new characters and rules for buffing units that make units which appear to be weak now, considerably stronger.
As for the other stuff making a game with as many units as 40k has it is envitable that some units will suffer in comparison to others.
Also this is just the opinion of certain people, who were not the only playtesters.
We will need to get a few tournaments into the new edition before we really start to see what stands out, either positively or negatively.
So the guys you play tested the game, in an effort to make the game balanced have just given a list of units which are really strong and those that are barely worth taking?
DG can at least have disgustingly resilient Hell Brutes which seem to be one the best options I have seen so far for wrecking faces in CC. You can debuff squads on top of that with that RNG psychic power.
Typhus seems pretty deadly as well with a large group of pox walkers and gives an aura to DG units within 7" that does mortal wounds on 4+ to enemies in CC with that unit.
Malignant Plague Casters do Mortal wounds every time they fire off a Physic power on 7+ on top of what ever the power does as well. Crazy.
DG do seem to like dishing out Mortal Wounds which makes me a happy nurgling.
The bad thing about this though like we said earlier, is that many of the buffs/debuffs only apply to DG units so terminators or anything else that can't be used in a DG army, can't benefit from them.. at the moment.
It's the opinion of a few guys and not a factual list of what is worth taking and what to burn on youtube.
Presumably (and hopefully) balance was not left to just them, so its not beyond belief they can think some stuff is good and some if bad. Again, that doesn't make it factual.
Plus it seems they got stuff wrong too, for example Chaos Daemon Daemon Prince *can't* hide like pansies because they have 10 wounds (you can only hide if you have less than 10).
It's also impossible to completely balance everything in a game with so many options. Some will lose out even without intending them to be weaker or less useful. Not unexpected.
JohnnyHell wrote: It's also impossible to completely balance everything in a game with so many options. Some will lose out even without intending them to be weaker or less useful. Not unexpected.
Agree 100%, its also important to understand that when dealing with things that have rules that change the way things operate, something may be balanced one minute, and completely bonkers when you sit it next to something else.
Lets just hope that the rumored community site where we can report things and vote on things that need review works. No one will be able to test and find the loopholes like the community at large.
Rippy wrote: Deathguard one of the weaker armies for now
Crusader weakest LR variant. Godhammer probably best of three stock variants.
Servitors are terrible. Fenrisian wolves are bad.
Vindicator sucks
Executioner plasma is bad.
Riptides not so good. Don't usually take more than one.
Tervigon is just ok.
Zoanthropes meh.
T-fex not very good
Ynnari way better than straight Craftworld
Archons not that good
Tesserach Vault is too expensive
Possessed are meh.
Mutilators are not that good.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't their job to play-test all of this? Granted, the company making the game is always well within their rights to ignore whatever they want from outside sources, but if Reese et al. were play-testing these games then why is the above list a problem?
1) These are opinions.
2) A "meh" or "ok" doesn't equal bad.
3) Did you ignore the massive list of other things that were good?
Daedalus81 wrote: 3) Did you ignore the massive list of other things that were good?
No, but you clearly missed the point of why I culled all the other ones. These aren't the opinions of some guys who got the books early These are the guys that play tested these rules before they went to print. If they're saying that "Unit X is useless" then it means that someone somewhere along the line didn't do their jobs/what was asked of them.
Rippy wrote: Frontline Gaming Q&A Summary:
Tau overwatch is even better than 7th
Had to pick this out, but how can anybody take these guys seriously after this? Tau overwatch is objectively worse than in 7th.. You can no longer use ML's to improve BS during overwatch (its is ALWAYS on a 6 regardless of modifiers) and a unit can only fire supporting fire (i.e. overwatch when another unit is charged) once, instead of unlimited as in 7th. How is that better? I must be missing something here.
Units that came out as meh or useless could be in comparison to how over the top they were before, or due to the designers swinging the pendulumn too far in response to feedback. It wouldn't be the first time any company, much less GW, over nerfed something.
ClockworkZion wrote: Units that came out as meh or useless could be in comparison to how oer the tipop they were before, or due to the designers swinging the pendulumn too far in response to feedback. It wouldn't be the first time any company, much less GW, over nerfed something.
That's the impression I got mostly. Almost nothing was called out as being explicitly bad (Servitors), all units had a function and some choices were just personal preference. I'm surprised they even answered which armies they thought were best, but it sounded like the gap between the top armies and what they considered the bottom armies was pretty small. Reece said he had trouble winning with straight Craftworld, but Frankie thought they were fine. Just gotta get used to the change from what they were in 7th, same with Daemon summoning.
Daedalus81 wrote: 3) Did you ignore the massive list of other things that were good?
No, but you clearly missed the point of why I culled all the other ones. These aren't the opinions of some guys who got the books early These are the guys that play tested these rules before they went to print. If they're saying that "Unit X is useless" then it means that someone somewhere along the line didn't do their jobs/what was asked of them.
Indeed, it's one thing if it starts having problems out in the wild, but if the playtesting team has a laundry list of complaints then something has gone wildly wrong somewhere.
Of course the balance is better overall, this is a ground up overhaul of the system. If it wasn't roughly as balanced as 3rd edition it'd be pretty embarrassing.
Rippy wrote: Frontline Gaming Q&A Summary:
Tau overwatch is even better than 7th
...unit can only fire supporting fire (i.e. overwatch when another unit is charged) once, instead of unlimited as in 7th. How is that better? I must be missing something here.
You've got this wrong. In 7th a unit could only Overwatch once per turn & therefore could only ever Supporting Fire once a turn.
So really, it's worse in that on 4 hit markerlights make a difference, but it's better in that the unit being charged can fire Overwatch multiple times if their opponent fails multiple charges.
I wouldn't say it's better, though (but that's with 0 testing).
However, as I said, they've gotten stuff wrong (ala Chaos Daemon Daemon Prince not actually being able to hide like they said), so I wouldn't be surprised if they missed the bit where For The Greater Good stops them from firing overwatch again that turn.
This is way better than the 3E "rebalancing" of everything. 3E gutted everything, including special characters, pychic powers, super heavies, weapon options, Ork Ballistic skill. 3E left soo much of the 2E stuff unplayable that it was infuriating.
8E has gone out of it's way to make sure current models/units are still playable in some fashion.
That FAQ is full o crap really. One big issue is you do NOT start with war gear listed in the sheet for free for matched play. That is only for open, narrative, power level play. the rule is even under the matched play rules that says they have no wargear,
Marine is 13 points base. In the data sheet is says armed with a bolt gun, bolt pistol, frag and krack grenades. If you look in the points section all of those items are listed as 0 points so it works out nice.
Lets say you are using a Tech-Priest Dominus. His data sheet says he is armed with a Omnissian Axe, Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber. Base cost is 125. The Axe costs 0, the Volkite blaster costs 8, and the Macrostubber costs 2. So if you are playing matched (points) play his cost is really 135.
str00dles1 wrote: That FAQ is full o crap really. One big issue is you do NOT start with war gear listed in the sheet for free for matched play. That is only for open, narrative, power level play. the rule is even under the matched play rules that says they have no wargear,
Marine is 13 points base. In the data sheet is says armed with a bolt gun, bolt pistol, frag and krack grenades. If you look in the points section all of those items are listed as 0 points so it works out nice.
Lets say you are using a Tech-Priest Dominus. His data sheet says he is armed with a Omnissian Axe, Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber. Base cost is 125. The Axe costs 0, the Volkite blaster costs 8, and the Macrostubber costs 2. So if you are playing matched (points) play his cost is really 135.
Must have missed something, but I thought they only said you don,t pay for wargear that you replace. So, for example, on Sternguard you don't pay for the bolter if you take a combi on a guy.
Oh and the Daemon Prince thing, I may have gotten Daemon/CSM version wrong, the stream had been going for 6 hours at that point and I was a little punchy.
str00dles1 wrote: That FAQ is full o crap really. One big issue is you do NOT start with war gear listed in the sheet for free for matched play. That is only for open, narrative, power level play. the rule is even under the matched play rules that says they have no wargear,
Marine is 13 points base. In the data sheet is says armed with a bolt gun, bolt pistol, frag and krack grenades. If you look in the points section all of those items are listed as 0 points so it works out nice.
Lets say you are using a Tech-Priest Dominus. His data sheet says he is armed with a Omnissian Axe, Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber. Base cost is 125. The Axe costs 0, the Volkite blaster costs 8, and the Macrostubber costs 2. So if you are playing matched (points) play his cost is really 135.
Must have missed something, but I thought they only said you don,t pay for wargear that you replace. So, for example, on Sternguard you don't pay for the bolter if you take a combi on a guy.
JohnU wrote: Oh and the Daemon Prince thing, I may have gotten Daemon/CSM version wrong, the stream had been going for 6 hours at that point and I was a little punchy.
(and I said hide like a little girl, not them )
Heh, no worries. I didn't mean you got it wrong because you're bad or anything . I wouldn't expect anyone to function at their best while streaming for that long!
Yeah, I just played against tau yesteraday. With the ay pile in and consolidate works it is very easy to land one charge and then get like 4-5 units in combat if they are clustered up at all.
str00dles1 wrote: That FAQ is full o crap really. One big issue is you do NOT start with war gear listed in the sheet for free for matched play. That is only for open, narrative, power level play. the rule is even under the matched play rules that says they have no wargear,
Marine is 13 points base. In the data sheet is says armed with a bolt gun, bolt pistol, frag and krack grenades. If you look in the points section all of those items are listed as 0 points so it works out nice.
Lets say you are using a Tech-Priest Dominus. His data sheet says he is armed with a Omnissian Axe, Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber. Base cost is 125. The Axe costs 0, the Volkite blaster costs 8, and the Macrostubber costs 2. So if you are playing matched (points) play his cost is really 135.
Must have missed something, but I thought they only said you don,t pay for wargear that you replace. So, for example, on Sternguard you don't pay for the bolter if you take a combi on a guy.
"If you are playing a matched point game or a game that uses a points limit, you can use the following lists to determine the total point costs of your army. Simply add the total points costs of all your models, and the war gear they are equipped with to determine your armies total points value."
That's why some gear has a cost of 0. Your most common standard stuff you might not be paying points for, but most of the time you will be spending points for gear.
str00dles1 wrote: That FAQ is full o crap really. One big issue is you do NOT start with war gear listed in the sheet for free for matched play. That is only for open, narrative, power level play. the rule is even under the matched play rules that says they have no wargear,
Marine is 13 points base. In the data sheet is says armed with a bolt gun, bolt pistol, frag and krack grenades. If you look in the points section all of those items are listed as 0 points so it works out nice.
Lets say you are using a Tech-Priest Dominus. His data sheet says he is armed with a Omnissian Axe, Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber. Base cost is 125. The Axe costs 0, the Volkite blaster costs 8, and the Macrostubber costs 2. So if you are playing matched (points) play his cost is really 135.
Must have missed something, but I thought they only said you don,t pay for wargear that you replace. So, for example, on Sternguard you don't pay for the bolter if you take a combi on a guy.
"If you are playing a matched point game or a game that uses a points limit, you can use the following lists to determine the total point costs of your army. Simply add the total points costs of all your models, and the war gear they are equipped with to determine your armies total points value."
That's why some gear has a cost of 0. Your most common standard stuff you might not be paying points for, but most of the time you will be spending points for gear.
There is no contradiction here. Paying only the cost for the wargear you take is not contradictory to paying points for wargear.
Lol... the "Faction Focus: Imperial Agents" article is kind of pushing it really hard, claiming Sisters have "exciting new tools".
The new statlines are interesting, but that's really all they are. Still no new units, no new miniatures, barely any new lore, no new "stuff" in general.
Melissia wrote: Lol... the "Faction Focus: Imperial Agents" article is kind of pushing it really hard, claiming Sisters have "exciting new tools".
The new statlines are interesting, but that's really all they are. Still no new units, no new miniatures, barely any new lore, no new "stuff" in general.
Indeed still its much better than it was a year or more ago, they show uop in the fluff alot / nice images - maybe, maybe we will get models - although sadly the new Marines make that less likely .
The focus itself was the usual mix - but I don't get why the stat lines/ data cards are not shown fully - only one you click on them.
Celstine remains fantastic but as she longer boosts Marines - just Adeptus Ministorum and Guard, that may make her less attractive to some players - but she still kicks ass and is hard to put down.
Having the chance for three rounds of combat with Penitent Engines in a single turn is neat trick.
The new stuff is how the units interact with each other. A single AoF is limiting but you can add more with the banners.
Celestine can also provide a 6+ invul to AM units.
Crimson wrote: Half of the replies in FB regarding this focus are demands for plastic sisters while the rest are Monty Python references.
Nobody expects the Adeptus Soroitas! Their chief weapon is faith...faith and righteousness...righteousness and faith.... Their two weapons are faith and righteousness...and justice.... Their *three* weapons are faith, and righteousness, and justice...and fanatical devotion to the God Emperor.... Their *four*...no... *Amongst* their weapons.... Amongst their weaponry...are such elements as faith, righteousness.... I'll come in again.
NOBODY expects the Adeptus Sorortitas! Amongst their weaponry are such diverse elements as: faith, righteousness, justice, fanatical devotion to the God Emperor, and nice bob haircuts - Oh damn!
Hey its ok... my wife built a gorgeous Sisters army... all it took was giving a French, third party model company $500 for dangerously fragile resin...
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Plus it seems they got stuff wrong too, for example Chaos Daemon Daemon Prince *can't* hide like pansies because they have 10 wounds (you can only hide if you have less than 10).
No, you add a 50% chance for more AoFs with banners, for a fairly expensive cost of 40 points per banner bearer. Said banner bearer cannot give AoFs from within transports, and only apply to squads within 6", and only as long as the imagifier lives.
It's much, MUCH more limited than you're thinking.
Crimson wrote: Half of the replies in FB regarding this focus are demands for plastic sisters while the rest are Monty Python references.
Nobody expects the Adeptus Soroitas! Their chief weapon is faith...faith and righteousness...righteousness and faith.... Their two weapons are faith and righteousness...and justice.... Their *three* weapons are faith, and righteousness, and justice...and fanatical devotion to the God Emperor.... Their *four*...no... *Amongst* their weapons.... Amongst their weaponry...are such elements as faith, righteousness.... I'll come in again.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Plus it seems they got stuff wrong too, for example Chaos Daemon Daemon Prince *can't* hide like pansies because they have 10 wounds (you can only hide if you have less than 10).
CSM prince has 8 doesn't he?
Correct. The Chaos Daemon version has 10, because.
No, you add a 50% chance for more AoFs with banners, for a fairly expensive cost of 40 points per banner bearer. Said banner bearer cannot give AoFs from within transports, and only apply to squads within 6", and only as long as the imagifier lives.
It's much, MUCH more limited than you're thinking.
Which is good because they are OBSCENELY powerful. SoB are the fastest army in the game now(admittedly that speed is more 'canonball' than 'jetbike' but still. Double shooting on exorcists is fantastic, and Celestine is as bonkers as ever.
We're in a good place. If we had goddam plastic models we'd be fine for another 20+ years.
Rippy wrote: Deathguard one of the weaker armies for now
Crusader weakest LR variant. Godhammer probably best of three stock variants.
Servitors are terrible. Fenrisian wolves are bad.
Vindicator sucks
Executioner plasma is bad.
Riptides not so good. Don't usually take more than one.
Tervigon is just ok.
Zoanthropes meh.
T-fex not very good
Ynnari way better than straight Craftworld
Archons not that good
Tesserach Vault is too expensive
Possessed are meh.
Mutilators are not that good.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't their job to play-test all of this? Granted, the company making the game is always well within their rights to ignore whatever they want from outside sources, but if Reese et al. were play-testing these games then why is the above list a problem?
1) These are opinions.
2) A "meh" or "ok" doesn't equal bad.
3) Did you ignore the massive list of other things that were good?
The tank commander has a order that let's a tank reroll 1's to hit. It makes fireing the exucutioner at max power much better. Also low power mode is fine for most stuff. You only need max power when shooting multiwound stuff or if you REALLY need the +2 to wound vs T4. Versus normal meq the +3 to wound and -4 will much them.
Plasma is amazing if you can give the unit reroll 1's and every faction gets a few ways to do it.
Tamereth wrote: So the guys you play tested the game, in an effort to make the game balanced have just given a list of units which are really strong and those that are barely worth taking?
Well job done guys. High fives all round.
Maybe their role wasn't as big as many imagine? Indeed didn't they say to that effeat
Tamereth wrote: So the guys you play tested the game, in an effort to make the game balanced have just given a list of units which are really strong and those that are barely worth taking?
Well job done guys. High fives all round.
Maybe their role wasn't as big as many imagine? Indeed didn't they say to that effeat
Some of these units are being looked at in a vaccume when in fact when combined with abilities or psychic powered synergize a lot more. Like I pointed out about the "plasma is bad" comment. It seems like every army with plasma have a cess to atlas one if not more sources of reroll 1's to hit.
Tamereth wrote: So the guys you play tested the game, in an effort to make the game balanced have just given a list of units which are really strong and those that are barely worth taking?
Well job done guys. High fives all round.
Maybe their role wasn't as big as many imagine? Indeed didn't they say to that effeat
From the look of it they got the whole thing down to 'has at least niche usefulness' which is the best you can hope for.
I mean look at warmahordes. That game is so balanced focused they use proxy bases and laser pointers and they still had a faction that was useless when mk3 came out.
ERJAK wrote: Which is good because they are OBSCENELY powerful
Not really. You can sometimes get an additional phase of shooting or movement for a single squad-- squads which, I should remind you, have nothing heavier than a meltaguns or multi-meltas (for retributors), they have no lascannons or assault cannons or plasma cannons (or even plasma guns!) or what have you. By default, it doesn't even happen 100% of the time; it's 5/6ths of the time. In order to use the movement phase bit, the unit has to move outside of the Imagifier's range, thus precluding it from receiving any more benefit from the imagifier's effects. The other powers are pretty sad; you can regain a single lost model (an effect that hospitallers do for cheaper), or gain an additional assault phase... which also means the imagifier is probably stuck in assault, too.
They would be "obscenely powerful" on another army, if imagifiers were more reliable or cheaper. On Sisters, they're an afterthought at best. In fact, IMO you're honestly better off ignoring Acts of Faith, using them basically as a nice bonus instead of building your army around them, because of how expensive and ineffectual imagifiers are.
edit: (you know, this should probably be relegated to the Sisters of Battle Tactica thread at this point)
ERJAK wrote: Which is good because they are OBSCENELY powerful
Not really. You can sometimes get an additional phase of shooting or movement for a single squad-- squads which, I should remind you, have nothing heavier than a meltaguns or multi-meltas (for retributors), they have no lascannons or assault cannons or plasma cannons (or even plasma guns!) or what have you. By default, it doesn't even happen 100% of the time; it's 5/6ths of the time. In order to use the movement phase bit, the unit has to move outside of the Imagifier's range, thus precluding it from receiving any more benefit from the imagifier's effects. The other powers are pretty sad; you can regain a single lost model (an effect that hospitallers do for cheaper), or gain an additional assault phase... which also means the imagifier is probably stuck in assault, too.
They would be "obscenely powerful" on another army, if imagifiers were more reliable or cheaper. On Sisters, they're an afterthought at best. In fact, IMO you're honestly better off ignoring Acts of Faith, using them basically as a nice bonus instead of building your army around them, because of how expensive and ineffectual imagifiers are.
You can naysay however much you want broham but I've already crushed an all knights list and a bike heavy Eldar list into the dirt. AoF are brilliant, the army is well designed, if a bit complex and it's super fun to play.
And I'm gonna go ahead and say this, if you ignore Acts of Faith you deserve to lose every game you play in 8th and you WILL lose every game you play in 8th.
Wait, you call this super-complex? There's nothing complex about it. You roll a d6 at the start of your turn. If you get a 2+, you nominate one unit with the Acts of Faith special rule to perform an Act of Faith. If you have Celestine, you activate her AoF aura; one unit within 6" activates an AoF. If you have Imagifiers that aren't in transports, you roll d6, on 4+ you activate their aura; one unit within 6" activates an AoF. Then your turn continues as normal.
It's actually the simplest, IMO, Act of Faith system yet. It just scales poorly, with 40 point imagifiers meaning it's cheaper to buy a battle sister squad with meltaguns than to try to rely on an imagifier to boost your firepower.
It's nothing to worry about. They're reorganizing the store atm and have made some mistakes. For a few days, Phoenix Lord Asurmen was listed amongst Sisters of Battle.
Do you think there will be a new Nurgle Dreadnought soon? I think I will expand both armies with a Dreadnought and since they have already announced one for the Space Marines maybe there will be also a new one for Nurgle...
Indeed, it's one thing if it starts having problems out in the wild, but if the playtesting team has a laundry list of complaints then something has gone wildly wrong somewhere.
Of course the balance is better overall, this is a ground up overhaul of the system. If it wasn't roughly as balanced as 3rd edition it'd be pretty embarrassing.
Oh please. Why don't you ask them about the overall state of the game?
It's not like GW said anything about tweaking things periodically. That sort of implies they know they can't get it all perfect in one shot, but please, continue to nitpick.
As much as I'd love this, vehicles don't have AoF so they can't benefit from the extra shooting. So no double firing Exorcists or 3 assault Penitents.
EDIT CAUSE I'M KINDA WRONG: Exorcists maybe because of Celestine's rule specifies Adepta Sororitas units and not units with AoF...but that requires you having her camping by the tank.
For the life of me I can't understand the thinking that sisters if made reasonable priced, plastic, with faces that don't look like The terminator won't sell. Your telling me you can't sell religious fanatical pyro space nuns but you can sell weeabo anime suits or Even Bigger Marines. Really??
As for the rules I think they are much improved, funny how I was at the edge of my seat for that faction focus but the leaks dimmed that fire. For now they are a admittedly much improved supporting force to my astra militarum force. Also I'm not forced to run strictly multimelta immolators anymore.
Twoshoes23 wrote: For the life of me I can't understand the thinking that sisters if made reasonable priced, plastic, with faces that don't look like The terminator won't sell. Your telling me you can't sell religious fanatical pyro space nuns but you can sell weeabo anime suits or Even Bigger Marines. Really??
As for the rules I think they are much improved, funny how I was at the edge of my seat for that faction focus but the leaks dimmed that fire. For now they are a admittedly much improved supporting force to my astra militarum force. Also I'm not forced to run strictly multimelta immolators anymore.
Oh and you can't AOF vehicles, sorry
With Celestine and Imagifiers, they only specify Adepta Sororitas and Order keywords, so they should be able to get those AoF, but not the free one you get per turn since that requires you to have the AoF skill. At least that's how I'm interpreting it. I could be wrong.
dan2026 wrote: Have GW ever said why they haven't made new models for Sisters yet?
Because they are always saying how much demand they receive and how surprisingly popular they are.
Why wouldn't you just make them?
Hell in this very article they were bigging Sisters up to the high heavens!
I remember reading somewhere that they could never get the molds to look how they wanted, and now with Celestine and the Twins we can see that they can. So it's probably just a matter of time.
Twoshoes23 wrote: For the life of me I can't understand the thinking that sisters if made reasonable priced, plastic, with faces that don't look like The terminator won't sell. Your telling me you can't sell religious fanatical pyro space nuns but you can sell weeabo anime suits or Even Bigger Marines. Really??
It is not even like they'd have to be fantastically popular, just as popular than genestealer cults, as sisters could be easily made as similar relatively limited set of kits. Anyhow, this is probably enough of this subject.
Twoshoes23 wrote: For the life of me I can't understand the thinking that sisters if made reasonable priced, plastic, with faces that don't look like The terminator won't sell. Your telling me you can't sell religious fanatical pyro space nuns but you can sell weeabo anime suits or Even Bigger Marines. Really??
It is not even like they'd have to be fantastically popular, just as popular than genestealer cults, as sisters could be easily made as similar relatively limited set of kits. Anyhow, this is probably enough of this subject.
I honestly cannot imagine them selling less than Genestealer Cults.
I can't remember anyone really calling for Cults to comes back much.
I see people asking for Sisters every day!
If they made plastic sisters I'd do my Inquisition super friends army. A Watch Company or two, company of Grey Knights and whatever the equivalent of a company of sisters is.
dan2026 wrote: Have GW ever said why they haven't made new models for Sisters yet?
No one wants them, not enough recourse for a complete overhaul and they have problems with their haircut made in plastic
Looks at Gather Storm character set 1. Wrong on both accounts.
Big fear is they bring out plastic Sisters and they cost as much as Witch Elves. Sales never appear and GW writes them off because 10 Sisters costing more money than a full tactical squad of Marines is just bonkers.
dan2026 wrote: Have GW ever said why they haven't made new models for Sisters yet?
No one wants them, not enough recourse for a complete overhaul and they have problems with their haircut made in plastic
Looks at Gather Storm character set 1. Wrong on both accounts.
Big fear is they bring out plastic Sisters and they cost as much as Witch Elves. Sales never appear and GW writes them off because 10 Sisters costing more money than a full tactical squad of Marines is just bonkers.
Ican tell you that they actually DID have a problem with designing them in plastic for years, one of the major things was that they couldn't get the hair to look right.The new stuff looks good and theyve increased skill and tech in the plastics department a lot over the years. It may not be a problem now however.
I believe it was somewhere in this monstrous thread, but I can't seem to locate it: someone made a cleaned up version of the Primaris Space Marine scheme painting tool, would anyone be able to send me the link?
Accolade wrote: I believe it was somewhere in this monstrous thread, but I can't seem to locate it: someone made a cleaned up version of the Primaris Space Marine scheme painting tool, would anyone be able to send me the link?
Thanks
EDIT: got it, thanks Reese!
I'm not sure if it's the same one but the one I posted a few days back is linked below in my sig.
Vehicles exploding and being a real problem might make buggies and Trukks a great suicide unit. I DARE your to kill my Trukks that just sped into the middle of your army.
matphat wrote: Vehicles exploding and being a real problem might make buggies and Trukks a great suicide unit. I DARE your to kill my Trukks that just sped into the middle of your army.
matphat wrote: Vehicles exploding and being a real problem might make buggies and Trukks a great suicide unit. I DARE your to kill my Trukks that just sped into the middle of your army.
just don't let the transports get surrounded.
For those of us who didn't watch the stream, what is the issue with exploding vehicles? Previous editions had exploding vehicles if you rolled a 5 or 6 depending on the vehicle and weapon on the damage chart... or is this some sort of simplification gone horribly wrong?
matphat wrote: Vehicles exploding and being a real problem might make buggies and Trukks a great suicide unit. I DARE your to kill my Trukks that just sped into the middle of your army.
just don't let the transports get surrounded.
For those of us who didn't watch the stream, what is the issue with exploding vehicles? Previous editions had exploding vehicles if you rolled a 5 or 6 depending on the vehicle and weapon on the damage chart... or is this some sort of simplification gone horribly wrong?
Exploding vehicles now deal Mortal Wounds, so Terminator or Grot you die all the same.
matphat wrote: Vehicles exploding and being a real problem might make buggies and Trukks a great suicide unit. I DARE your to kill my Trukks that just sped into the middle of your army.
just don't let the transports get surrounded.
For those of us who didn't watch the stream, what is the issue with exploding vehicles? Previous editions had exploding vehicles if you rolled a 5 or 6 depending on the vehicle and weapon on the damage chart... or is this some sort of simplification gone horribly wrong?
Exploding vehicles now deal Mortal Wounds, so Terminator or Grot you die all the same.
I'm reminded of a 3rd Edition game where we had what came to be known as the "Over-Enthusiastic Warlock".
He, along with his unit of Guardians, ended up in HTH with a Sentinel. The Guardians could do anything, but the Warlock sure could, and he smacked that lil' walker with his Witchblade as hard as his little Space Elf arms would let him.
BOOOOOOM!
The Sentinel exploded, wiping out the entire Guardian unit and leaving the Warlock standing in a crater all alone.
But don't worry guys. Exploding vehicles dealing mortal wounds isn't as bad as the poor souls inside the vehicle, who die instantly no matter how many wounds they have, because in the Grim Darkness of the 41st millennium the insides of transport vehicles are all rigged with Vortex grenades.
matphat wrote: Vehicles exploding and being a real problem might make buggies and Trukks a great suicide unit. I DARE your to kill my Trukks that just sped into the middle of your army.
just don't let the transports get surrounded.
For those of us who didn't watch the stream, what is the issue with exploding vehicles? Previous editions had exploding vehicles if you rolled a 5 or 6 depending on the vehicle and weapon on the damage chart... or is this some sort of simplification gone horribly wrong?
Exploding vehicles now deal Mortal Wounds, so Terminator or Grot you die all the same.
Was this ever talked about? This came from War of Sigmar. I hope these end up coming with White Dwarf. It is suppose to be in the Start Painting kit. Seems weird since there is a SM one that only came out last year.
matphat wrote: Vehicles exploding and being a real problem might make buggies and Trukks a great suicide unit. I DARE your to kill my Trukks that just sped into the middle of your army.
just don't let the transports get surrounded.
For those of us who didn't watch the stream, what is the issue with exploding vehicles? Previous editions had exploding vehicles if you rolled a 5 or 6 depending on the vehicle and weapon on the damage chart... or is this some sort of simplification gone horribly wrong?
Exploding vehicles now deal Mortal Wounds, so Terminator or Grot you die all the same.
Yeah... that's pretty stupid.
They only explode when the reach 0 wounds and then you roll a 6, when it does happen it's devastating though, in worried about warlock who have 2 wounds and need to be stood 3" away from a unit to give them the buff from their psychic powers, perils causes D3 mortal wounds and if it kills the psycher every unit within 6" also takes D3 mortal wounds.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Was this ever talked about? This came from War of Sigmar. I hope these end up coming with White Dwarf. It is suppose to be in the Start Painting kit. Seems weird since there is a SM one that only came out last year.
very reminiscent of the Stormcast that came with a WD. As someone with no current interest in the Primaris it will be nice to have one in the flesh if it comes with a WD.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Was this ever talked about? This came from War of Sigmar. I hope these end up coming with White Dwarf. It is suppose to be in the Start Painting kit. Seems weird since there is a SM one that only came out last year.
Spoiler:
Was there not some thing where if you went into a GW store and preordered All The Things on Saturday there you got a free Primaris?
You'd hope they'd give them away with the WD, but if they're using them as preorder incentives they may well not.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Was this ever talked about? This came from War of Sigmar. I hope these end up coming with White Dwarf. It is suppose to be in the Start Painting kit. Seems weird since there is a SM one that only came out last year.
Spoiler:
Was there not some thing where if you went into a GW store and preordered All The Things on Saturday there you got a free Primaris?
You'd hope they'd give them away with the WD, but if they're using them as preorder incentives they may well not.
May's WD hinted we'd be getting a free mini sometime soon. We also got free storm casts when AoS dropped (not me, I forgot to pick the magazine up. Derp.), and AFAIK most new editions have free minis.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Was this ever talked about? This came from War of Sigmar. I hope these end up coming with White Dwarf. It is suppose to be in the Start Painting kit. Seems weird since there is a SM one that only came out last year.
Spoiler:
Was there not some thing where if you went into a GW store and preordered All The Things on Saturday there you got a free Primaris?
You'd hope they'd give them away with the WD, but if they're using them as preorder incentives they may well not.
White Dwarf isn't out until the Friday before the Saturday release, so they could be used for both.
But don't worry guys. Exploding vehicles dealing mortal wounds isn't as bad as the poor souls inside the vehicle, who die instantly no matter how many wounds they have, because in the Grim Darkness of the 41st millennium the insides of transport vehicles are all rigged with Vortex grenades.
I can't find where it says this, is that truly the case?!
(Not the bit about vortex grenades...)
But don't worry guys. Exploding vehicles dealing mortal wounds isn't as bad as the poor souls inside the vehicle, who die instantly no matter how many wounds they have, because in the Grim Darkness of the 41st millennium the insides of transport vehicles are all rigged with Vortex grenades.
I can't find where it says this, is that truly the case?!
(Not the bit about vortex grenades...)
The actual "explodes" rule is on the appropriate datasheets (Rhino, Trukk, etc). When it is reduced to 0 wounds, before removing it from the battlefield and before occupants disembark, you roll a die. On a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 6" takes D3 mortal wounds.
In the rules for Transports, when one is destroyed the occupants disembark and you roll a die for each model. On a 1, that model is slain.
So lots of 1-in-6 chances of things happening, but most of the time it will just die and you'll lose maybe a couple of models from inside, unless you're surrounded in melee....
Based on the rules, encircling rhinos by charging seems super easy if they are alone and without tank shock, they are pretty hopeless to get away by themselves. Unit of 30 hormagaunts should be a fearsome sight for a rhino rush player.
Nostromodamus wrote: In the rules for Transports, when one is destroyed the occupants disembark and you roll a die for each model. On a 1, that model is slain. .
Important to note that while you do roll a dice for each model, sixes only slay A model, not THAT model.
You roll for all embarked, and get to apply wounds to the chaff units.
Space marines now fighting over who gets to hold the melta gun when they get inside the rhino
Nostromodamus wrote: In the rules for Transports, when one is destroyed the occupants disembark and you roll a die for each model. On a 1, that model is slain. .
Important to note that while you do roll a dice for each model, sixes only slay A model, not THAT model.
You roll for all embarked, and get to apply wounds to the chaff units.
Space marines now fighting over who gets to hold the melta gun when they get inside the rhino
Good catch! But it is 1's that kill, not 6's. Same chance though.
Nostromodamus wrote: In the rules for Transports, when one is destroyed the occupants disembark and you roll a die for each model. On a 1, that model is slain. .
Important to note that while you do roll a dice for each model, sixes only slay A model, not THAT model.
You roll for all embarked, and get to apply wounds to the chaff units.
Space marines now fighting over who gets to hold the melta gun when they get inside the rhino
Or when the dude with the Meltagun dies, his squad doesn't just leave the Meltagun on the ground, but pick it up and keep going.
Now, when the Sergeant strangely keeps out of harms way while his dudes keep dying, that is another story. I guess that is the substitute for Look Out Sir.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Or when the dude with the Meltagun dies, his squad doesn't just leave the Meltagun on the ground, but pick it up and keep going.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Or when the dude with the Meltagun dies, his squad doesn't just leave the Meltagun on the ground, but pick it up and keep going.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Or when the dude with the Meltagun dies, his squad doesn't just leave the Meltagun on the ground, but pick it up and keep going.
Surprised people are upset by the vehicle explodes rule. I guess for Terminators and 2+ armoured friends its bad but for MEQ its about the same and for everyone else it is considerably less lethal than before.
Pity the poor Chaos transports, one stray shot from a combi-plasma will not only nuke the transport in one shot (regardless of the vehicle!) but also carries the 1/6 chance of evaporating a passenger
Yeah, I assume they are either unaware of the new vehicle stats or just being hyperbolic. Unless they got a hold of the dreadclaw rules early and those are made of tissue paper or something.
Yes, but in their wisdom, CSM decided it would be cool to strap combi-weapons onto their vehicles. As combi-weapons were meant for infantry, the combi-plasma removes the "model" on a roll of a 1, unlike most vehicle based plama which does 1 mortal wound on a 1. TL;DR: Don't strap combi-plasma to your CSM vehicles, and if you do, don't overcharge it.
Gets Hot removes the model, no wounds, no saves allowed.
Pretty sure that's not universal and depends on the datasheet. Remember that of the weapons used by the unit is listed, so they can make it different for each unit.
You also have the option of making it supercharged; you dont have to roll for gets hot.
Alpharius wrote: Wait - vehicles don't ignore the 'gets hot' part of plasma in 8th edition?
They do not. Plasma weapons that are intended to go on vehicles all do 1 mortal wound on a to hit of 1 (as far as I've seen). EG: Helbrute Plasma Cannon does 1 mortal wound on a 1.
Gets Hot removes the model, no wounds, no saves allowed.
Does it remove the transport? As in, if I had a stern guard squad in a rhino, and one of them shot a plasma weapon out the top hatch, and I rolled a 1 for my Gets Hot!, would the rhino be removed?
Gets Hot removes the model, no wounds, no saves allowed.
Does it remove the transport? As in, if I had a stern guard squad in a rhino, and one of them shot a plasma weapon out the top hatch, and I rolled a 1 for my Gets Hot!, would the rhino be removed?
Alpharius wrote: Wait - vehicles don't ignore the 'gets hot' part of plasma in 8th edition?
They do not. Plasma weapons that are intended to go on vehicles all do 1 mortal wound on a to hit of 1 (as far as I've seen). EG: Helbrute Plasma Cannon does 1 mortal wound on a 1.
The Leman Russ Demolisher's Plasma Cannon sponsons flat out destroy the tank if any of the to hit rolls are ones.
Alpharius wrote: Wait - vehicles don't ignore the 'gets hot' part of plasma in 8th edition?
They do not. Plasma weapons that are intended to go on vehicles all do 1 mortal wound on a to hit of 1 (as far as I've seen). EG: Helbrute Plasma Cannon does 1 mortal wound on a 1.
Except the Primaris Rhino, Leman Russ Demolisher and Leman Russ all have plasma weapons which will kill the model on a 'To Hit' roll of 1 when supercharged.
Alpharius wrote: Wait - vehicles don't ignore the 'gets hot' part of plasma in 8th edition?
They do not. Plasma weapons that are intended to go on vehicles all do 1 mortal wound on a to hit of 1 (as far as I've seen). EG: Helbrute Plasma Cannon does 1 mortal wound on a 1.
The Leman Russ Demolisher's Plasma Cannon sponsons flat out destroy the tank if any of the to hit rolls are ones.
Hah, nice. Interesting that that one is actually on the data sheet and not an artifact of referencing an external table like the CSM issue.
Alpharius wrote: Wait - vehicles don't ignore the 'gets hot' part of plasma in 8th edition?
They do not. Plasma weapons that are intended to go on vehicles all do 1 mortal wound on a to hit of 1 (as far as I've seen). EG: Helbrute Plasma Cannon does 1 mortal wound on a 1.
Except the Primaris Rhino, Leman Russ Demolisher and Leman Russ all have plasma weapons which will kill the model on a 'To Hit' roll of 1 when supercharged.
Obviously a rhino shooting overcharged plasma was OP so they had to balance it.
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