I think they are doing a good job walking the fine line between being like the comic and standing on its own. Lots and lots (and lots) of fans of the show also read the comics, so they would rightfully miffed if popular and important characters finally show up, yet look nothing like their comic book counterparts. I want the show to stay close to the source material. I don't think it is absurd that these characters resemble how they appear in the comic.
I'm not saying they shouldn't look anything like their comic book counterparts, rather just subtle tweeks so that the characters look believable within the TV world that has been created so far. I think most people are okay with the way the X-men were represented in the first two movies, despite the fact that they went with more realistic costumes than what is in the comics. Ultimately at the end of the day a character's onscreen behavior is always going to make or break how closely they match the source material more than what they're wearing or their haircut.
I don't want to know if there's a reason in the comics why that lady would be dressed so sexily when doing so puts her at extreme risks of being easily bitten, but there damn well better be, or else I do believe that this is a horrible precedent of what may be coming on the show.
Most of us love the Burton and Nolan Batman, but we detest the Schumacher one, yet both are live-action interpretations of the same printed source material. Keeping a coherent tone with what has been set already in a TV series is of paramount importance, even more than adhering 100% to the look of the source material. If that principle is forgotten, then a show can quickly start feeling like it is in service to the look and feel of the comic book, as opposed to just telling a compelling story that draws you in and doesn't constantly make you remember: hey, this is based on a comic book.
I don't want to know if there's a reason in the comics why that lady would be dressed so sexily
Um, its summer, in Atlanta, with no air conditioning. I'd be wearing next to nothing to if I was in a big army truck. Look at Abraham, he's is a sweat soaked wifebeater.
yakface wrote: I'm not saying they shouldn't look anything like their comic book counterparts, rather just subtle tweeks so that the characters look believable within the TV world that has been created so far. I think most people are okay with the way the X-men were represented in the first two movies, despite the fact that they went with more realistic costumes than what is in the comics. Ultimately at the end of the day a character's onscreen behavior is always going to make or break how closely they match the source material more than what they're wearing or their haircut.
I don't want to know if there's a reason in the comics why that lady would be dressed so sexily when doing so puts her at extreme risks of being easily bitten, but there damn well better be, or else I do believe that this is a horrible precedent of what may be coming on the show.
Most of us love the Burton and Nolan Batman, but we detest the Schumacher one, yet both are live-action interpretations of the same printed source material. Keeping a coherent tone with what has been set already in a TV series is of paramount importance, even more than adhering 100% to the look of the source material. If that principle is forgotten, then a show can quickly start feeling like it is in service to the look and feel of the comic book, as opposed to just telling a compelling story that draws you in and doesn't constantly make you remember: hey, this is based on a comic book.
It's been like that since the show began though. Why did Rick wear his sheriff's hat for so long? It wasn't all that practical but it was just part of his character. The same goes for Dale. He work an unbuttoned short sleeve shirt that offered no protection and it was loose fitting which would make him easier to grab.
Of all the things to nitpick on that show, the fact that Rosita is wearing a shirt with her midriff exposed has got to be pretty low on that list.
I think they are close enough to their comic book counterparts so they are instantly recognizable:
I was excited to finally see them on the show.
But this is my point. There are some things that look okay even cool in a comic book panel that look absolutely absurd when you see them in real life. A good film/TV show understands this and makes the small changes necessary to keep the flavor of the original character intact while still making them not look absolutely ludicrous.
I thought that overall this was a very strong episode, but then that final shot took me completely out of the story and just made me laugh at how ridiculous those new characters look...they're more like caricatures than characters. It's a really distressing sign to me when they're willing to give up immersion and a sense of 'realism' (within the realm of the ridiculous that the show does operate in) in order to pay homage to the source material.
If this ends up being the start of a trend, then this may be the point where TWD as a TV show jumps the shark. With the revolving cast of showrunners on the TWD, it may be a case now where the guy in charge is now deferring *too much* to Kirkman's input. Without having read the comics I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing that up to this point significant changes have been made in many cases to keep the TV story a little more believable when you see it onscreen, because just matter of fact there are things you can get away with in a comic that don't seem unrealistic that seem idiotic when you see them realized in live action.
So I just hope this isn't the start of a trend!
Calmness, there isn't even that many more memorable characters in the comics after these three. And I guarantee that it wasn't Kirkman pushing for a cool shot of them. In fact he seems to be the driving force behind making the show as different from the comic as possible much to my annoyance. Other folks producing the show are most likely trying to get the comic book fans excited and letting their fandom show through.
Honestly, I'm quite shocked this is some sort of mini-controversy.
Calmness, there isn't even that many more memorable characters in the comics after these three. And I guarantee that it wasn't Kirkman pushing for a cool shot of them. In fact he seems to be the driving force behind making the show as different from the comic as possible much to my annoyance. Other folks producing the show are most likely trying to get the comic book fans excited and letting their fandom show through.
Honestly, I'm quite shocked this is some sort of mini-controversy.
I don't know if anyone cares in the world besides me about this (have you seen anyone else bugged by it), so I wouldn't call it even a mini-controversy.
I'm just a fan of the show who hasn't read the comics and has enjoyed every episode. Up to this point sure there have been plenty of WTF moments where characters do things that don't seem to make a lot of sense, but I think that's natural in any post-apocalyptic depiction. But this is the first time that I've laughed out loud at how ridiculous something looked because it looked like a joke or someone's high school video project where they have all the stereo-type characters strike a 'cool pose' for the camera.
It just felt strange and out of place, so I thought I'd comment on it (since that's the point of this discussion thread) and see if anyone agreed with me, but so far it looks like I may be alone in my opinion , which I'm okay with.
Calmness, there isn't even that many more memorable characters in the comics after these three. And I guarantee that it wasn't Kirkman pushing for a cool shot of them. In fact he seems to be the driving force behind making the show as different from the comic as possible much to my annoyance. Other folks producing the show are most likely trying to get the comic book fans excited and letting their fandom show through.
Honestly, I'm quite shocked this is some sort of mini-controversy.
I don't know if anyone cares in the world besides me about this (have you seen anyone else bugged by it), so I wouldn't call it even a mini-controversy.
I'm just a fan of the show who hasn't read the comics and has enjoyed every episode. Up to this point sure there have been plenty of WTF moments where characters do things that don't seem to make a lot of sense, but I think that's natural in any post-apocalyptic depiction. But this is the first time that I've laughed out loud at how ridiculous something looked because it looked like a joke or someone's high school video project where they have all the stereo-type characters strike a 'cool pose' for the camera.
It just felt strange and out of place, so I thought I'd comment on it (since that's the point of this discussion thread) and see if anyone agreed with me, but so far it looks like I may be alone in my opinion , which I'm okay with.
Quite a few people seem to agree with you. I can see how them trying too hard can backfire. In fact it has every time so far. In the comics the most popular characters are Michonne, Andrea, Carl and Rick. The show's awareness of this has resulted in trying to portray these characters as super-cool which has led to people feeling ambivalent at best about them and downright hatred at worst. I think the same thing is highly probable with Abraham & co.
On the flip side they don't force it with Daryl (a character that doesn't even exist in the comic) and wouldn't you know it. He's the most popular character in the show.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Anyway, besides those five "controversial" seconds (which I didn't mind) I quite enjoyed this episode. It felt like some good old survival horror rather than a soap opera which the show can meander into sometimes.
Found an interview with Kirkman from before S4 began and it had this nugget at the very end:
You’re working on a spinoff. How will that work? Will it be something entirely different, like Breaking Bad spinning off a Saul Goodman comedy? Well, the spinoff takes place in space. No. I can say we’re not going to pull any characters from The Walking Dead, or the comics. It will be an all-new cast and an entirely new setting. To a certain extent, I’m competing with 24-year-old me to create a new Walking Dead thing. I think it will be vastly different. It won’t be a comedy or, like, a lawyer show. It will be about survival in some way but in order for it to justify its existence it has to be different in significant ways from the mothershow.
Fans keep bringing up The Hunters for some reason. The entire Hunters storyline can be done in one episode and hopefully will be.[/spoiler]
As a Group they were memorable. Though I agree the storyline should be wrapped up in just one or two episodes. Perhaps one episode of buildup, a sense of being stalked and followed, culminating with an attack on a character. Then the next episode is about getting payback.
Eldarain wrote: I really prefer these type of episodes best. The show really stagnated when everything took place behind prison walls.
Though we really didn't like Glen's Tactical Dreadnought Armor zombie stroll. Otherwise a really solid episode.
You kind of wonder why he's not always wearing that armor.
Because he didn't need to? The prison was pretty safe until the Governor came to visit.
Since their arrival at the prison, he rarely left. IIRC, the only time he left was when he and Maggie left to find baby formula for the newborn Judith, and they were captured and taken to Woodbury by Merle. This was shortly after they took the prison. The armour probably hadn't been cleaned and disinfected yet, and they certainly didn't expect that they would need it. Glenn (and Maggie) wore the armour when the Woodbury Army attacked. Then Glenn fell ill with the mysterious flu disease, and he was too ill to stand never mind fight, so he did not have his armour with him and did not participate in The Governor Act II.They were all taken by surprise when the Governor arrived for the second time, so Maggie didn't have her armour either.
In 4x10 Glenn was still recovering from the flu. Its a miracle he didn't collapse under a dog pile of zombies when he was escaping the Prison.
I think Glenn should give his armour to Abraham and let the guy go mental. If Glenn can waltz through a horde of zombies, imagine the havoc Abraham could wreak if he was impervious from head to toe.
I think it's just naturally more dynamic when they're on the move. Which isn't to say it should be survival horror all the time. At some point down the road things will need to shift to society building, like the comic book has.
Comic spoiler...
Spoiler:
People try to make Negan out to be just another Governor, but IMO he's not. The Governor was solely focused on the survival of his own community. If you weren't with him (under him), you were against him an enemy. Negan and the Saviors offer a kind of crude, corrupt and violent society based on the interdependence of the various communities (obviously weighted toward his own and himself in particular).
The unexpected arrival of the four guys freaked me out. It was such a surprise. I did keep half expected the Monty Python under the bed quish scene though.
Noticed that I don't feel the time passing at all with the last three episodes (since coming back from the break). Seems like we start them and then they're over.
I was thinking Negan as well. Those guys were a bunch of incompetents though. It's a wonder they lasted so long.
How can you get very far when you keep killing your group because you want the bed? or first killing a guy then go to sleep right next to the body? or to dumb to first lower pants, then sit on the toilet.
They seemed to be waiting for others though, that bird call seemed more like a signal that random whistling.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Lot of meh except ]Negan and Jesus. Fans keep bringing up The Hunters for some reason. The entire Hunters storyline can be done in one episode and hopefully will be
We had an entire season of the Farm.... you think they will do just 1 episode of the hunters?
Now the last time Sam showed up in a post apocalyptic setting he was basically Jesus allegory person.. except that he could show up anywhere and would kill anyone who got in his way of helping the Main characters.
Spoiler:
So remeber folks, if Sean Astin appears before you in some Post apocalyptic setting and needs you're help. Help him and be glad that he isn't going to murder you.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: @ninjacommando ya I know they somehow managed to extrapolate two issues into an entire season but I'm hoping they've gotten away from that.
With the way S4 has been rolling and the departure of Glen Mazzara I think it's safe to make that assumption for now. I'm definitely loving the pace and feel of this season.
The bandits in the house couldn't possibly have been Negan and his Saviours. They're in Washington DC, a long, long way from the prison, unless the showrunners have decided to drastically compress the distance by changing the location to a different city closer by.
Spoiler:
I expect the next few episodes will focus on the various groups struggling to survive on the road to Washington, similar to the comics. Negan and the Saviours probably won't be introduced until the Finale.
Remember that gigantic herd of walkers that Daryl, Tyreese, Michonne and Bob ran into when they were out looking for medicine? That herd was in the comics. Rick and co. almost get caught by it, and they spend a couple issues fleeing from it and trying to stay ahead of the herd.
Why the hell would anyone want to travel to D.C. in search of a "Safe Zone" nearly a million people (i'm including Arlington, VA in this) in dense area. Nearly zero land for farming. Hot and Humid summer and freaking Cold winters.
I don't know. I didn't really see the point in this episode. We meet Abrahms group a little and we run from some strangers in a house. Really not much as far as plot movement.
They don't want to go to DC because it's a safe zone. They want to go there because supposedly it's where they need to go to save the world from zombies.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: They don't want to go to DC because it's a safe zone. They want to go there because supposedly it's where they need to go to save the world from zombies.
Who in their right mind would believe there is anything left in the dc area? Heck the group already went to the cdc where the guy there confirmed that all other sites had gone dark and that his location was the last one to be "cleansed".
So what's left?
Everyone's already infected, you'll have the same success of making a cure with the tools and equipment you've scavenged from a local community college as you would with the burning ruins of DC.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: They don't want to go to DC because it's a safe zone. They want to go there because supposedly it's where they need to go to save the world from zombies.
Who in their right mind would believe there is anything left in the dc area? Heck the group already went to the cdc where the guy there confirmed that all other sites had gone dark and that his location was the last one to be "cleansed".
So what's left?
Everyone's already infected, you'll have the same success of making a cure with the tools and equipment you've scavenged from a local community college as you would with the burning ruins of DC.
Andrew1975 wrote: I don't know. I didn't really see the point in this episode. We meet Abrahms group a little and we run from some strangers in a house. Really not much as far as plot movement.
here's the plot movement:
Grimes' group: Terror.
Abraham: discussion of blowing up camels and some other stuff happens (sets up to meet with the rest of the survivors).
Not sure I understand "plot movement". The plot of the show is pretty simplistic. What this episode had was character development. We get:
-Michone opening up and trying to be human, for the first time ever on screen.
-Carl actually starting to work through his issues, mostly about his sister.
-Introduction to Abrahams group (though whoever believes captain mullet deserves what they get)
-And Rick showing he's still got it. I mean, leaving a zombie bomb to cover his escape is pretty awesome.
Oh, and for whoever said it earlier about killing a dude for a bed that's not what happened. He'd sleeper held the guy after wrestling. He didn't lay down next to a dead body, just his passed out friend. Think of it as a human version of a wolf pack. Sometimes a dude got to be put in his place by the alpha.
Hulksmash wrote: Not sure I understand "plot movement". The plot of the show is pretty simplistic. What this episode had was character development. We get:
-Michone opening up and trying to be human, for the first time ever on screen.
-Carl actually starting to work through his issues, mostly about his sister.
-Introduction to Abrahams group (though whoever believes captain mullet deserves what they get)
-And Rick showing he's still got it. I mean, leaving a zombie bomb to cover his escape is pretty awesome.
Oh, and for whoever said it earlier about killing a dude for a bed that's not what happened. He'd sleeper held the guy after wrestling. He didn't lay down next to a dead body, just his passed out friend. Think of it as a human version of a wolf pack. Sometimes a dude got to be put in his place by the alpha.
An injured Grimes waking up, choking a guy out, then Zombie bombing him, yea he's hardcore.
I'd say that the possible introduction of a new adversary or rival survivor group is a significant plot development too.
Back on the guys in the house, it does feel like they're going to be heard from again. You probably don't give the guy on the porch the screen time he got unless you plan to use him more. Plus Rick, Michonne and Carl are on foot. They aren't going to get very far away unless they find a vehicle fast.
I don't think they're the Saviors, even if they wanted to move them south for the show. They didn't really feel like the Hunters to me, although when they were calling dibs on Michonne when she returned, maybe they were talking about something else...
Did anyone also catch the "No, Don't" shout from downstairs and the sudden quiet when Rick first woke up? Could be our intro to the Hunters.
And yeah, they have to play some part because the porch dude isn't someone who'd generally be a one off with no lines. But then again Beth's BF from the beginning of the season wasn't one I had pegged for that either.
Add another character to the many we need to follow (and worry about) in the second half of The Walking Dead Season 4: Jeff Kober’s whistling, tennis ball-bouncing “bad” guy from Episode 11.
Many fans recognized Jeff from shows like Sons of Anarchy and China Beach, and TheWalkingDead.com asked comic book writer/executive producer Robert Kirkman if we could expect to see him again. “I think it would be very strange if we didn’t since he’s such a recognizable actor,” RK said. “It was kind of by design. I’m actually really proud about how it all ended up. It’s almost hard to spot him the way things are edited and the way the episode goes. His character is definitely going to be returning again and it will happen when you least expect it.”
When we least expect it? OK, then let’s revise our expectations.
Jeff’s character — who hasn’t been formally introduced but may be named Joe or Harley, depending on where you look — wasn’t the one who actually saw Rick Grimes (Andrew Lincoln) in the house. That was Tony, played by Davi Jay, who is credited on several more episodes, whether that’s a false trail or something to consider. Jeff isn’t currently credited on more episodes, which is another reason why IMDb is only occasionally helpful when it comes to casting spoilers. We kinda figured Tony and tennis ball guy might connect with Rick down the road, since Tony would be able to recognize him and they could have a big fight/confrontation. But maybe that’s not how it will play out.
Will Jeff’s character connect with one of our Team Prisoners out there? Daryl, perhaps? Spoil the Dead shared on-set spoiler photos of Daryl walking train tracks with a gray-haired man. That man appears to look like Jeff and he's wearing the same jacket we saw Jeff's character wearing on Ep 11. (Where's Beth, though?)
Will Jeff's character cause trouble, at Terminus or before Terminus? Is he connected to one of the other groups out there — remember Randall’s old group of tough guys from Season 2, or those people who raided the camp Mitch, Brian and company found? Is his group meant to be a version of The Marauders in the comic book? They were a small group of bandits who came upon Rick, Abraham and Carl on the road. They attacked our group and even attempted to rape Carl, but Rick and Abraham fought them off and killed them. If there’s any comic book link at all, that’s probably the best bet. We saw Jeff’s guy eating out of a can on the porch, so it doesn’t seem like he’s connected to The Hunters, who killed people for food out of desperation. And it still seems much too early for Negan and The Saviors.
Hulksmash wrote: Not sure I understand "plot movement". The plot of the show is pretty simplistic. What this episode had was character development. We get:
-Michone opening up and trying to be human, for the first time ever on screen.
-Carl actually starting to work through his issues, mostly about his sister.
-Introduction to Abrahams group (though whoever believes captain mullet deserves what they get)
-And Rick showing he's still got it. I mean, leaving a zombie bomb to cover his escape is pretty awesome.
Oh, and for whoever said it earlier about killing a dude for a bed that's not what happened. He'd sleeper held the guy after wrestling. He didn't lay down next to a dead body, just his passed out friend. Think of it as a human version of a wolf pack. Sometimes a dude got to be put in his place by the alpha.
Well that should make things more fun when he wakes up. They'll know that at least 2 people were living in the house and will probably not be happy with rick killing of their group as a zombie bomb.
Beth finally got some real depth as a character, and Daryl added to his by showing how conflicted and tormented he really is.
It's quite a dilemma that the apocalypse gave Daryl's life meaning and a sense of worth, but at the cost of his family and now his friends (or so he thinks). In fact, in his eyes it's his fault that the best family he ever had died -- after he failed to do the *one thing* he was there to do. They nailed it on Talking Dead. The worst thing Beth said to him was that he'd be the last man standing. That's his personal nightmare.
At this point I'd rather see him hook up with Beth than with Carol again. Daryl and Beth are an interesting contrast, with different types of strength. Daryl and Carol are too similar -- it's all hard edges on hard edges. But I'm afraid Beth is going to die soon...she even seems to know and accept this.
Some people aren't going to like this one, but then I'm not sure that some of those people wouldn't be better off using their time to play zombie video games anyway. The Walking Dead -- comic and TV -- is about characters more than nonstop zombie smashing and big action sequences.
Gorgon nailed it. The episodes since coming back from their break (i.e. after the prison fell) have been excellent. They've been so good it feels like I've only been watching for 15 minutes when the show ends.
Character development is great, I actually didn't hate the farm episodes so much. These last two though, just putting the characters under microscopes a bit too much, yet not revealing anything shocking. Darryls background was exactly what everyone thought it would be, maybe actually less, nothing interesting or shocking about that, thanks for beating us over the head with it. Did Beth reveal anything interesting?
Those two episodes could have been cut into one good one.
To put it another way. One of my favorite albums is Sandinista by the Clash. A giant 3 record release that winds and meanders all over the place and shows a variety of styles, almost universally panned by critics as being unfocused and requiring mass cutting and editing. I however love it warts and all as it gives you an in depth look at the band. This works once and only once and certainly not twice in a row.
Foreplay is great and interesting, but you have got to give me a little more.
not that bothered about Rick, baby, or the mad girls sister.....
In ten years time i can see Carl and the psycho girl having fun carving their way across the country and/or being a cool Negan style couple ruling a community.
Andrew1975 wrote: Character development is great, I actually didn't hate the farm episodes so much. These last two though, just putting the characters under microscopes a bit too much, yet not revealing anything shocking. Darryls background was exactly what everyone thought it would be, maybe actually less, nothing interesting or shocking about that, thanks for beating us over the head with it. Did Beth reveal anything interesting?
Those two episodes could have been cut into one good one.
To put it another way. One of my favorite albums is Sandinista by the Clash. A giant 3 record release that winds and meanders all over the place and shows a variety of styles, almost universally panned by critics as being unfocused and requiring mass cutting and editing. I however love it warts and all as it gives you an in depth look at the band. This works once and only once and certainly not twice in a row.
Foreplay is great and interesting, but you have got to give me a little more.
Beth revealed she's a lush and used to drink and party. No one sips moonshine the first time and not act like they just breathed fire. she just knows the drinking games, but never played them? I don't think so.
I was so waiting for Daryl to die right after he was declared to be the last one standing.
I really like how they've been developing the characters in the last few episodes, the latest one especially.
I was also a huge fan of the survival horror feel of Beth and Daryls trip around the Club House, old noisy grandfather clock and all.
I'm also glad for the reveal (even if it was expected) that daryll was pretty much a waste of space before the apocalypse. It is interecting that apocalypse has made him more human, Its also a good contrast to Michonne, who could easily have had a similar back story, but instead we found out she had a loving family and kid, and the apocalypse took away her human side.
stargasm wrote: I really like how they've been developing the characters in the last few episodes, the latest one especially.
I was also a huge fan of the survival horror feel of Beth and Daryls trip around the Club House, old noisy grandfather clock and all.
I'm also glad for the reveal (even if it was expected) that daryll was pretty much a waste of space before the apocalypse. It is interecting that apocalypse has made him more human, Its also a good contrast to Michonne, who could easily have had a similar back story, but instead we found out she had a loving family and kid, and the apocalypse took away her human side.
Agreed I enjoyed that episode alot - very Res Evil feel
Ya, I think that was one if the best episodes of the series actually. I knew it was going to happen because I could see them borrowing the storyline from the comic albeit with different characters but I think the show actually handled it better. In the comic it just comes out of nowhere whereas the show had more foreshadowing, discussion and thinking on it. The only thing I miss was that in the comic
Spoiler:
Carl takes care of the situation and it's a big turning point for his character.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Ya, I think that was one if the best episodes of the series actually. I knew it was going to happen because I could see them borrowing the storyline from the comic albeit with different characters but I think the show actually handled it better. In the comic it just comes out of nowhere whereas the show had more foreshadowing, discussion and thinking on it. The only thing I miss was that in the comic
Spoiler:
Carl takes care of the situation and it's a big turning point for his character.
I agree with you. In some ways I feel like the show has stolen from Rick and Carl to give to Carol.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Ya, I think that was one if the best episodes of the series actually. I knew it was going to happen because I could see them borrowing the storyline from the comic albeit with different characters but I think the show actually handled it better. In the comic it just comes out of nowhere whereas the show had more foreshadowing, discussion and thinking on it. The only thing I miss was that in the comic
Spoiler:
Carl takes care of the situation and it's a big turning point for his character.
I agree with you. In some ways I feel like the show has stolen from Rick and Carl to give to Carol.
yeah, I feel like rick and carl are 100% different characters
Spoiler:
rick hasnt lost his hand, which was a big game changer, carl hasnt shot a kid, ect. But I also think its a good thing, because it gives the show a chance to do things differently. Kinda wish they would actually deviate just a little bit more, and do things that have no relation to what happened in the books, while keeping the same flavour to the new events.
Well there go my crackpot theories about Carol covering up for Lizzie murdering Karen and David to turn them.
I was correct about Lizzie being the show equivalent of Ben though it was rather obvious so I guess I don't deserve any credit.
Spoiler:
I'm a little disappointed they took the Lizzie execution away from Carl though. That was a big moment of character development for him in the comics which has set him on a very dark and ongoing Arc. Hopefully the show will find something else of equal significance to make up for it.
Maybe he will participate in the mutilation and execution of The Hunters? (The gang of cannibalistic bandits who kidnap Dale and eat his leg).
Time for my next crackpot theory.
I love how dark the show is getting now. Maybe Beth...
Spoiler:
...has been kidnapped and will be eaten/partially eaten by "The Hunters"? Will Beth get a fancy wooden peg leg like her daddy?
That would be a particularly ironic twist - like father, like daughter.
Spoiler:
Perhaps the new group that Daryl has joined (the group that had a violent encounter with Rick) are The Hunters?
Theres a moment in the promo for the next episode, when Daryl has hunted a rabbit, and one of the guys from that new group demands he hands it over. He then insults Daryl and Beth, and makes remarks about " the young ones never last long". Daryl draws a knife and its implied that he kills the guy.
We don't yet know how large this group is - they could have a camp and a larger group than the few members we've seen so far. Perhaps other members of the group kidnapped Beth and took her to their camp.
There was also a moment in "Claimed" when it sounded like the group that entered the house Rick was resting in, dragged in a man and killed him downstairs. Maybe they were butchering him for food?
Didn't the Hunters turn to cannibalism because they were lousy hunters? These guys look like a bunch of Daryls. They don't feel right to me, but maybe the Hunters have changed for the show.
Regarding Beth...
Spoiler:
I'd have to rewatch the episode, but I'm pretty sure that the car that sped away had a cross on the back. So maybe that's related to Gabriel? But you're right, otherwise it does feel like Beth is getting the rest of Dale's arc from the comic.
Again, a lot of things seem familiar from the comic...they've just been run through a blender for a bit.
gorgon wrote: Regarding a certain group in the comics...
Spoiler:
Didn't the Hunters turn to cannibalism because they were lousy hunters? These guys look like a bunch of Daryls. They don't feel right to me, but maybe the Hunters have changed for the show.
Well we havn't seen them hunt yet. Unless you count people...The promo shows one of them trying to force Daryl to hand over the rabbit he hunted.
Regarding Beth...
Spoiler:
I'd have to rewatch the episode, but I'm pretty sure that the car that sped away had a cross on the back. So maybe that's related to Gabriel? But you're right, otherwise it does feel like Beth is getting the rest of Dale's arc from the comic.
Spoiler:
That doesn't necessarily mean anything. The car may have been looted from the funeral home, and whoever's now using it have no connection to the cross and the funeral home.
Though now you mention it, yeah that does sound interesting. Now would be the time to introduce Gabriel.
Again, a lot of things seem familiar from the comic...they've just been run through a blender for a bit.
Yeah that seems to be a recurring theme for the show. They're reusing a lot of character arcs and events from the comics, but giving them to different characters. Keeps it familiar, but a little unpredictable.
Spoiler:
Maybe Tyreese will be the one to get his head smashed in by Negan? Hes already in the comics so anything goes for him now.
gorgon wrote: Regarding a certain group in the comics...
Spoiler:
Didn't the Hunters turn to cannibalism because they were lousy hunters? These guys look like a bunch of Daryls. They don't feel right to me, but maybe the Hunters have changed for the show.
Regarding Beth...
Spoiler:
I'd have to rewatch the episode, but I'm pretty sure that the car that sped away had a cross on the back. So maybe that's related to Gabriel? But you're right, otherwise it does feel like Beth is getting the rest of Dale's arc from the comic.
Again, a lot of things seem familiar from the comic...they've just been run through a blender for a bit.
No they're not going to have cannibals eating a girl on a US TV show. Come on people. Remember what we're talking about.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Yeah that seems to be a recurring theme for the show. They're reusing a lot of character arcs and events from the comics, but giving them to different characters. Keeps it familiar, but a little unpredictable.
Spoiler:
Maybe Tyreese will be the one to get his head smashed in by Negan? Hes already in the comics so anything goes for him now.
Spoiler:
I would *think* that they'd be less likely to splatter Glenn's brains all over the pavement, given that he and Maggie are really the big romance on the show. Tyreese probably does need to be careful. LOL.
You crazy people with all your comic-book based discussions.
I know you're trying to tempt me into clicking all those spoiler boxes, but I'M NOT GOING TO DO IT, DO YOU HEAR!
I don't need to read all about your awesome insights, so there.
Its my understanding
Spoiler:
Sean Connery dressed in boots and a red monkini is going to make a guest appearance leading a band of heavily armed warriors who motto is "For Yakface! For the DAKKA!"
No they're not going to have cannibals eating a girl on a US TV show. Come on people. Remember what we're talking about.
Given the recent episodes events plus previous episodes I am not so sure.................
They emphasised how sweet Beth is and sadly there seems to have been foreshadowing -
Spoiler:
"you'll miss me when I am gone", "Good people don't survive", etc. I really hope she is fine and nothing bad happens to her..... of course if she had stayed with Daryl and they had met those 7 guys she would likely have been gang raped to death.............
last sunday's episode was pretty intense towards the end, even if i did see it coming.
i'm really excited to see what they cram into the last two episodes. most likely all the groups will converge on "terminus" at the same time, thus setting the stage for the next season.
gorgon wrote: Regarding a certain group in the comics...
Spoiler:
Didn't the Hunters turn to cannibalism because they were lousy hunters? These guys look like a bunch of Daryls. They don't feel right to me, but maybe the Hunters have changed for the show.
Regarding Beth...
Spoiler:
I'd have to rewatch the episode, but I'm pretty sure that the car that sped away had a cross on the back. So maybe that's related to Gabriel? But you're right, otherwise it does feel like Beth is getting the rest of Dale's arc from the comic.
Again, a lot of things seem familiar from the comic...they've just been run through a blender for a bit.
No they're not going to have cannibals eating a girl on a US TV show. Come on people. Remember what we're talking about.
Season 1. A zombified little girl had her brains blown out on-screen in the very first episode.
Season 2. A little girl (Sofia) was bitten off-screen, and when her zombified corpse was found her brains were blown out on-screen .
Season 3. A pregnant woman was killed on-screen by an emergency caesarean, her brains blown out off-screen by her own son before reanimation, her corpse was completely eaten off screen by a walker that was then discovered by her distraught husband on-screen.
Season 4. We had a little girl (Megan) bitten on-screen by a zombie, and then she bled to death as her mother desperately carried her away to get help.
An old kindly man was slowly and incompetently beheaded on-screen, and spent several minutes choking on his blood until the beheading was completed.
We had the off-screen bait & switch with Judith's bloody baby seat in Ep 8 that fooled everyone for several weeks into thinking a baby had been eaten by zombies off screen.
We had a disturbed girl Lizzie attempt to smother baby Judith on-screen.
Said disturbed girl Lizzie then gutted her own sister off-screen in the belief that she'd come back as a walker and everything would be ok because Walkers are still people, they're just "different".
And you think that a teenage 17 year old girl (almost an adult anyway, and played by a 28 year old actress) won't have her leg amputated and eaten by cannibals, whether on-screen or off-screen?
Not really no, not by humans against humans, not against a grrrll.
The Originals had them slitting the throats of 16 year old girls - true they were supposed to ressurect but Stuff happens...................Vamnpire Diaries had girls and guys being carefully sliced up and put back together so that if you touched them they slid apart ................... and they are CW shows so no swearing
So how much time do you all reckon has passed since the fall of the prison? A week? A fortnight? A friend of mine figures about a month, but I don't seem to think so. Thoughts?
Frazzled wrote: The Comanche went to war with the Tonkawa over allegded cannibalism. When you're too gross for the Comanche Empire, somethings wrong...
Yeah, but that was a pretty standard accusation back in those days. Very few of those accusations were actually correct though. Oh well, I'm way OT.
Frazzled wrote: The Comanche went to war with the Tonkawa over allegded cannibalism. When you're too gross for the Comanche Empire, somethings wrong...
Yeah, but that was a pretty standard accusation back in those days. Very few of those accusations were actually correct though. Oh well, I'm way OT.
This is true. But there are more than normal stories about them.
I agree with Frazzled on the whole eating someone on screen thing. I just don't think it's gonna happen. Pretty sure someone will die in finale (I think someone always has). For some reason Beth looks like she's ripe for martyrdom so she'd be my bet.
Daryl (an actual hunter) rescues Beth from the cannibal Hunters, but gets captured in the process. A distraught Beth finds his dismembered, partially eaten body?
that the car that picked up beth is the preacher from the church that they meet around the time the hunters show up. so she is with the preacher, and then daryl slowly realizes who hes with and has to kill/ditch em when they start hunting rick or someone from the previous group
that the car that picked up beth is the preacher from the church that they meet around the time the hunters show up. so she is with the preacher, and then daryl slowly realizes who hes with and has to kill/ditch em when they start hunting rick or someone from the previous group
I like how little things have been tying together to make you remember how the groups are really only separated by a short distance even if they don't know it. Like how Tyrese and the girls see the smoke from what is most likely the cabin Daryl and Beth set fire to.
Khornholio wrote: So how much time do you all reckon has passed since the fall of the prison? A week? A fortnight? A friend of mine figures about a month, but I don't seem to think so. Thoughts?
i'm going to have to go with 1 week.
the episode where carl and rick stayed in the house, pretty sure at least 3 days eclipsed in that time frame.
AegisGrimm wrote: I like how little things have been tying together to make you remember how the groups are really only separated by a short distance even if they don't know it. Like how Tyrese and the girls see the smoke from what is most likely the cabin Daryl and Beth set fire to.
Not sure - aren;t there a load of burnt Zombies from that fire?
First, I don't see Daryl going down. He's still probably the favorite character currently on there. Followed closely by Glenn & Maggie with others falling behind them.
Regarding Carol and her character I feel that she's embraced (outside of sharp shooting) the Andrea feel from the comic vs. the one we wound up with.
And man, this was a good, good episode. Though I did have to take a breath when I saw Tyrese and Carol out walking when I realized they had way less of a reason or indicators to not have one of them stay with the kids than I, the viewer, did.
This back half of the season has been pretty spectacular. While I've genuinely enjoyed every season except for the first half of season 2 (god I hated the farm pre-barn killing spree) this season as a whole has been a major, major step up for the series.
Non-Comic Theories & Spoilers:
Spoiler:
I loved the Tyrese and Carol interaction. I loved the way it all played out. And she picked a good time to admit she'd killed the sick people. In the field earlier and Tyrese would likely have ended her but after watching her kill a quasi replacement daughter cause she bathouse nuts is probably a good time to bring it up. Also I watch the Talking Dead and got annoyed at people thinking that Rick sent Carol off as punishment or that he didn't like her anymore. I'm of the opinion that it was to preserve the peace of the prison, the group, and for Carol's life. I think he sent her away because she was family and he didn't want her to suffer for her actions. That said I felt that needed to happen for leader Rick to come back. You know, the pre-dead wife Rick.
I remembered and pointed out to my wife the same thing mentioned earlier. That it sounded like the group Darryl is with could be cannibals since I remembered hearing someone beg and then a thunk like a cleaver and no more noise. Though I'm not sure I like the idea of cannibals in this universe. I'd figure humans would be harder to hunt at this point than deer. And I also think it's to easy.
I do think Beth is with some true crazies though. That dog likely belonged to them and the house was immaculate. That says to me it's either a trap (my first thoughts when they started opening food and eating) or someone got pissed that Beth and Darryl had found their hidey hole.
My end season predictions is that we lose Tyrese and Doctor Bob. We've currently got 3 right hand men types (tyrese, abraham, and darryl). There is zero chance of Darryl going down and it's a little early to lose Abraham. Doctor Bob has had some growth, just enough that him dying would be sad and have impact. I can't see any of the core going down at this point honestly. That core being Rick, Carl, Darryl, Carol, Maggie, Glenn, and Michone. I'd give Beth a pass because we just lost two little girls and losing Beth, while impactful as she's been around quite a while, would seem diminished at this point. We've already killed sweet and innocent this season, several times. So I think she's alright.
Granted the TV guys could shock us but I have a hard time believing the core is going to get winnowed so soon.
AegisGrimm wrote: I like how little things have been tying together to make you remember how the groups are really only separated by a short distance even if they don't know it. Like how Tyrese and the girls see the smoke from what is most likely the cabin Daryl and Beth set fire to.
Not sure - aren;t there a load of burnt Zombies from that fire?
Walkers are attracted to fire, movement, noise and pretty any other sort of commotion. The walkers could have been attracted to the fire, wandered inside or close to the burning shack then wandered away again, possibly following the sound of the gunshots fired by Tyreese and co.
AegisGrimm wrote: I like how little things have been tying together to make you remember how the groups are really only separated by a short distance even if they don't know it. Like how Tyrese and the girls see the smoke from what is most likely the cabin Daryl and Beth set fire to.
Not sure - aren;t there a load of burnt Zombies from that fire?
Sure. They stumbled in on the farm during the Tyrese and co. episode.
Just now got caught up all the way on this episode. While I haven't been a fan of the show this season--that was pretty good TV. Tyreese can make scenes, he should be in more of the show.
Well, I think this episode might remove some doubts for fans of the comic...
Spoiler:
The group that Daryl's with aren't the show's version of the Hunters, and the residents of Terminus probably are.
If Terminus is a sanctuary, where are all the survivors? That place looks like a post-apocalyptic paradise, but it's empty?
They sure seem to be growing a lot of veggies...but apparently have no livestock? They could be a bunch of vegans, I guess. Or...
Again, the Hunters in the comic were bad hunters, which is why they started killing and eating people. So maybe the show's logic is that if you're not good at hunting, you try *trapping*.
Or maybe it's the "make you a plate" line that sounds so obvious. Reminds me of the old Twilight Zone episode..."IT'S A COOKBOOK!"
The preview on Talking Dead showed a bloody, shaken and shaking Rick. So maybe that shot is after Rick and company do what they do in the comic.
Automatically Appended Next Post: whembly, you should change your quote tag to a spoiler tag.
Yeah, anytime I walk into a place that neat, see a sign that says lower your weapons, and only see a single person who is grilling when there are no livestock pens......I'm just gonna start shooting
guys with gleen are def not the hunters as we now know (otherwise they would have eaten the dude they killed) these guys seem like something new. I still think the preacher has beth. OBS the prediction from before where daryl has to turn on them because they go after one of the group turns out to be correct since they are chasing rick.
terminus is definitely some kind of cannibal cult it would seem, wonder if its just that lady or more... could be interesting.
Definately something not right about that Terminus. Door's just left open, I don't know. Plus are the really not going to tell us where Beth is in the finale? That means there's a good possibility she's locked up in the basement or something nefarious.
Turns out Daryl's group are most likely the Marauders, a gang of bandits who attack Rick's group and try to rape Carl. I'd forgotten about them, probably because they only appeared in an issue or two.
After the apocalypse began, the trio likely formed up and began their criminal spree. Later, as Rick, Abraham, and Carl sought shelter under a highway overpass, the trio ambushed Abraham, whom was on guard, and began eyeing Carl. As Rick fought one of the bandits, with Abraham at gunpoint, one of the bandits attempted to rape Carl, this would mark an end to the group. As this happened Rick fatally bit the marauders' neck, who he was fighting, and Abraham shot the other at close range in the head. The last member of the bandits, in fear, surrendered and begged for his life as he attempted to flee, but was cut down as Rick chased him down and mauled the bandit with his own knife.
I forgot about the Marauders too. I do believe we have both groups "identified," although they've obviously been run through the blender a bit for the TV show.
Regarding cliffhangers, etc., the writers might not want to get them to the Alexandria Safe Zone just yet. I'm not sure that the show would need to spend as much time there as the comic did, if that makes sense. Once they get to the ASZ, I think the show would introduce Negan fairly quickly.
So BethQuest -- and an arc with Gabriel -- would let them push the ASZ back a bit.
But based on Daryl's conversation with Len during the rabbit debacle I could see them filling the "Marauder" role.
generically yeah, I see it, either they are the marauders "sans carl raping" (probably done for the sensitive TV audience)
or
with the leader going on and on about honesty and stuff, as well as him thinking things "went right" after the zombie stuff started makes me think perhaps there is more to this group then just being sub ins for the small maurader party thats in the book.
Who was it who said those guys were the Marauders or something? Looks like he was right.
In other news cannibals turned out to be cannibals. Twist is there's a whole lot of cannibals! Usually cannibals come in small groups not battalion strength!
And I think that finally, at long last, the Rick from the comics may have arrived. How long until the next season? LOL
Another great episode in what was an tremendous season. You know it was good because we had most of the details figured out already, and it was still great viewing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
agnosto wrote: I think Beth is in the camp and sets everyone free.....either that or she was dinner.
I think the character she's with is fairly obvious...the question of course is exactly how that's going to play out in the TV show.
Remember that we also have Carol and the fully armed and operational battle station Tyreese presumably yet to arrive.
Yup, definitely an intense way to end the season while still bringing most of the group back together. I half expected Tara to be eaten already. Dat neck chomp by Rick though! No one expects the walker move! Fatality!
The one sour note of the episode was the really stupid death scene by the guy screaming for help who was getting mobbed by walkers. It was a bloody semi-circle, why didn't he just run out away into the area that was NOT blocked walkers? You'd think that after a year or two of dealing with these things people would be less stupid in handling them.
A great ending to a great season. And I'm pumped for the Rick who knows what he is and is willing to do it without handringing. I also think he'll understand Carol a little better now. Granted, you should turn that off slightly when you're not on the road.
And it was good to see Herschel again.
I really, really like this showrunner. Glad he's still at the reigns next season. He has a way of making sure no characters get lost in the shuffle.
Oh god this finale had my heart pumping like never before!
Spoiler:
Even more so when the guy was getting Rick, Daryl and Michonne to walk to the train cart, god I thought Carl was going to die.
I reckon these people are the cannibals, the little shrine room they entered had a picture of hannibal lecter on the wall with names written on the floor, maybe who they had to eat?
gorgon wrote: No, I think no one's talking about it because it's blatently obvious.
While I don't disagree...that's certainly what it looked like, it wasn't so explicitly stated that it couldn't all turn out to be a red-herring next season if they wanted to. Seems unlikely, but I think they could have revealed a bit more if they wanted everyone to know and agree on what Terminus is actually all about.
Just to play devil's advocate:
Spoiler:
It could turn out that Glen & co just did something to piss the Terminus folks off and put them into their version of prison...and then Rick & co essentially ended up doing the same when they freaked out. The remains we saw *could* just be walker remains (for some reason) and the freaky room...well, I don't know exactly what that is, although I'm sure people on the internet have frozen the frame and figured it out already if I bothered to google it.
Do I believe any of that? Not really...but I was kind of expecting them to do a 'big reveal' for the cliffhanger that let all viewers know for sure that Terminus was all about cannibalisim...but it never came, and I was a bit surprised and I'm wondering if that was intentional because things aren't what they seem.
I'd guess most 'common' (non-geek) viewers would probably have missed all the signs so far pointing to it being cannibals honestly.
terminus is the cannibals, but we all know this I think.
if you watch closely not only do you see butchered bodies, cannibal writing on the walls, but you also see them pass by shipping containers full of people screaming to be let out.
theres also the fact that twice in a row we have seen them make meat only meals, with large cuts of meat (I was suprised by the realism, they actually made the meat shanks look human sized) but no large farm animals around that it could of come from.
I think they left out the full exposition of it, just to make it more of a cliffhanger when they reveal them eating people in the season premiere.
I just cant wait to see how rick and the gang + tyreese beat the feth out of the cannibals
I think the only real mystery is how they get out of this, as the cannibals in the show are a really different type then those in the comics
going to be neat seeing how they "flesh out" the characters in the cannibal community.
Yeah, it could be a huge red herring or another example of the blender that the TV tends to use on the comic book. But...
Spoiler:
...beyond remains, a lot of grilling meat but no livestock, the screaming containers that easysauce mentioned, general weirdness, etc., even the words Rick uses at the end are taken directly from the encounter with the Hunters in the comic.
So let me amend my previous statement to say that I think it's blatently obvious that this is the TV show's version of the Hunters, which admittedly could be somewhat different in execution than those in the comic.
Honestly, I think this version makes more sense. As I said before, if you're a lousy hunter, you *trap*. Terminus is literally the end of the line.
It's certainly going to be a painfully long off-season waiting for this premiere.
One thing to note: the last 2 season breaks both had a sizeable amount of time pass 'in the show' between the finale and the premiere, which seemed like a great idea because it helps explain some of the kids (mainly Carl) growth.
But that doesn't seem feasible with this cliffhanger...so I wonder how/if they'll address that issue? Maybe do a mid-season break where show-time elapses offscreen?
Or do we think Carl is old enough now where the growth will be a little less noticeable?
just aired in the uk...Hmm yeah pretty disapointing..........
If you are suspicious of a place why do you all go in or not scout the place properly ..........not like one or two of the group is not a bit good at that.
oh well - could be worse I guess....Guess the plot needed some more stupidity from the main characters
At least Game of Thrones starts soon and Vampire Diaries is still awesome.
Mr Morden wrote: just aired in the uk...Hmm yeah pretty disapointing..........
If you are suspicious of a place why do you all go in or not scout the place properly ..........not like one or two of the group is not a bit good at that.
oh well - could be worse I guess....Guess the plot needed some more stupidity from the main characters
At least Game of Thrones starts soon and Vampire Diaries is still awesome.
Most annoyed beacuse
Spoiler:
no Beth ;(
Spoiler:
I think they acted as smartly as they could... actually I was happy to see rick back in the "I think and plan ahead cause Im awesome" mode that has been missing for so long.
after all, they scouted it, had weapons in a cache, and the cannibals even gave them back their weapons after they put them down. I mean, thats about as much reassurance as you can get.
considering the benifits of hooking up with a large organized group that actually has a home, its a risk I think most people would take.
which is why its such a good trap I think.
only problem is... I just dont see it being sustainable, I mean, if there are really this many people left to catch, then things are not so bad. What happens when people stop wandering into the trap?
I mean, why eat the people when some of them might know how to hunt or farm a long lasting food source?
I think the people eating will be directly linked to some kind of cult type religion, with some yet un seen leader.
cause thats what keeps bugging me about the cannibal group, who is there leader?
I keep feeling like their leader is going to pop out as a big suprise
I think they acted as smartly as they could... actually I was happy to see rick back in the "I think and plan ahead cause Im awesome" mode that has been missing for so long.
after all, they scouted it, had weapons in a cache, and the cannibals even gave them back their weapons after they put them down. I mean, thats about as much reassurance as you can get.
considering the benifits of hooking up with a large organized group that actually has a home, its a risk I think most people would take.
which is why its such a good trap I think.
only problem is... I just dont see it being sustainable, I mean, if there are really this many people left to catch, then things are not so bad. What happens when people stop wandering into the trap?
I mean, why eat the people when some of them might know how to hunt or farm a long lasting food source?
I think the people eating will be directly linked to some kind of cult type religion, with some yet un seen leader.
cause thats what keeps bugging me about the cannibal group, who is there leader?
I keep feeling like their leader is going to pop out as a big suprise
Spoiler:
All of them did not need to go in - leave Daryl outside to watch what happens - they are all obviously on edge and suspicious of this place.
Maybe they eat people because they a) like it, b) have forme some for of religion around it - see all the names on the floor and the candles - plus the line about "people becoming part of us".
It would have been interesting if the "Claimed" guys had shown up - that would have been interesting
I think they acted as smartly as they could... actually I was happy to see rick back in the "I think and plan ahead cause Im awesome" mode that has been missing for so long.
after all, they scouted it, had weapons in a cache, and the cannibals even gave them back their weapons after they put them down. I mean, thats about as much reassurance as you can get.
considering the benifits of hooking up with a large organized group that actually has a home, its a risk I think most people would take.
which is why its such a good trap I think.
only problem is... I just dont see it being sustainable, I mean, if there are really this many people left to catch, then things are not so bad. What happens when people stop wandering into the trap?
I mean, why eat the people when some of them might know how to hunt or farm a long lasting food source?
I think the people eating will be directly linked to some kind of cult type religion, with some yet un seen leader.
cause thats what keeps bugging me about the cannibal group, who is there leader?
I keep feeling like their leader is going to pop out as a big suprise
That is pretty typical human behavior though (not thinking about tomorrow when what you're doing today keeps you alive). I was more appalled at how much ammunition was used to round them up...no way that's sustainable!
100's of shots fired, with no reloads, all misses despite having an awesome vantage point, multiple shooters, and apparently all the ammo in the world..
not to mention every single pop pack (the things that explode to look like the bullet hitting the groun) we ALL on the ground, not a single one on the terrain behind them, classic "shoot the footsteps where they used to be" movie failure to account for physics/actual gunfire.
very true though, rick and them could have left someone to stand watch, or even only had one person go in to make sure it was ok.
It seemed like they were deliberately trying to miss them in order to 'herd' them (rather than killing them).
Not going to argue about how fake the impacts looked, because they did, but then again so does most of their CGI blood work.
Presumably most groups that show up to Terminus are duped and captured without resorting to gunfire, but even so it seems like they could have accomplished much the same goal with waaaaaay less shots fired.
They were absolutely herding them like animals. *cough* They knew exactly what they were doing...it was a practiced thing. Look at how they closed certain doors and left others open. Look at how they got them into that open area, right next to the box car. They've probably done this with group after group. It was like cattle through a chute.
And sure, as thematic and thought-out that was, the expenditure of ammo was crazy wasteful.
Spoiler:
The Hunters are gonna make great adversaries for the first part (?) of season 5. Of all the groups Rick and company encounter - Woodbury, Marauders, Saviors, etc. - the Hunters are the most loathsome IMO.
You really saw the "journey" the Rick goes through from that annoying reluctant leader to that now cold, ruthless, BADASSED, survivor at the end of this season's show.
I read on the other websites complaining how brutal that chomp-the-jungular scene by Rick... um, what the feth else was he supposed to do? Those rednecks had them dead right there... his son was about to get the "Deliverance" treatment... dude, I'd tear up the would-be-rapist with my own bear hands.
What else was he supposed to do?
What would weird me out more is if Rick somehow got his gun back and chose to STILL chomp at the bad guy's neck... That'd be all fethed up for sure...
@yakface good point about the time lapse between seasons. I hope they don't do that this time and the next season starts immediately where this one left off.
I think the finale's theme was pretty set with the scene about Rick teaching about how to trap rabbits.
And like said before, all the "bad" shooting was either them being herded, or a case of the worst director possible, so pretty obvious it was the former.
All in all, damn good episode, other than them letting the guy get killed by walkers. That scene was just dumb.
Compel wrote:Of course, they could always have done some extra filming for the next season this go round, then do any timejumps afterwards.
You'd think that could be the case, but with television production that is rarely a luxury they can afford unless because its already pretty grueling just to get the stuff they need to finish the ordered episodes, let alone writing scripts and shooting footage for episodes that are months away.
AegisGrimm wrote:I suppose I should still spoiler stuff:
Spoiler:
I think the finale's theme was pretty set with the scene about Rick teaching about how to trap rabbits.
And like said before, all the "bad" shooting was either them being herded, or a case of the worst director possible, so pretty obvious it was the former.
All in all, damn good episode, other than them letting the guy get killed by walkers. That scene was just dumb.
Do we really need to spoiler stuff, I'm wondering? I mean, this thread is about discussing the latest episodes generally and it has a big spoiler warning in the thread title. I appreciate people spoiler tagging comic book discussion (because some of us haven't read the comics and don't want to have the shows plots potentially spoiled) but it seems to me that hiding basic stuff about each episode is kind of OTT. I mean, its one thing to spoiler like a big character's death, for example, but just general details about the latest ep should be fine IMHO.
---
I agree that the shooting was most definitely 'herding', but even so it seemed ridiculously (and needlessly) wasteful. One or two shots should have been enough to get them going in a specific direction, not emptying a whole clip at their feet.
Eldarain wrote: Not to mention the absurd noise level in a place that looked to have little to no passive walker defense.
I hope they do address that a bit in the next season, because it is curious.
However, my theory is that while the outer gates were all unlocked when Glenn & Co. arrived, I still get the feeling that the place has been cordoned off like a maze, both for trapping 'guests' and also walkers that make it in. Also, given that there weren't any dead walkers laying around the place (and seeing now how many armed people they have), I think we can assume that they do regular 'clean up' duty getting rid of any walkers they do kill.
So what we *didn't* see when Glenn & Co. arrived is that their snipers up in their perches saw them approaching, and signaled to someone to go unlock the gates…that's part of their deception of seeming so open and welcoming and why they were so taken aback when Rick & Co. came in the back entrance and surprised them.
I imagine if a walker horde approaches terminus, their snipers see them coming and then if they can't contain it at the fences, they just lock down the interior sections and deal with the walkers that make it inside one section at a time.
You could also see that in the wooded approaches that Rick & Co. used, the fences were lined with wooden spikes to catch walkers…so it definitely seemed to me like the approach 'up the front' is made to look unprotected and welcoming, while the other sides are a bit more well protected and even if walkers get in they're able to lock down their interiors like a castle.
I have to chime in and agree that this season was really enjoyable. It makes the the Shane/Lori soap opera thing from a few years ago look so bad. Of course in season 6, Tasha Yar and crew are going to get theirs and it is going ot be a lot of fun to speculate how. Until October.
The Terminians seem to be a very well heeled in supplies too. They may actually do patrols and keep their territory clear of zombies. A bonus of eating people is you get their stuff too I guess....
All in all, damn good episode, other than them letting the guy get killed by walkers. That scene was just dumb.
I disagree...
Carl wanted to save the guy... Evolved Hardass Rick™ didn't... knowing that the dude is fethed.
Annoying Reluctant Leader Rick™ in the early seasons would've tried saving the dude.
Those flashbacks, plus that scene and Rick going Hannibal on those rednecks are all vehicles to show that Rick has adapted to the New World Order... which is to survive.
To those who has read the graphic novels... is that the similar trajectory of Rick's character development?
All in all, damn good episode, other than them letting the guy get killed by walkers. That scene was just dumb.
I disagree...
Carl wanted to save the guy... Evolved Hardass Rick™ didn't... knowing that the dude is fethed.
Annoying Reluctant Leader Rick™ in the early seasons would've tried saving the dude.
Those flashbacks, plus that scene and Rick going Hannibal on those rednecks are all vehicles to show that Rick has adapted to the New World Order... which is to survive.
To those who has read the graphic novels... is that the similar trajectory of Rick's character development?
IMO, what you're seeing is TV Rick finally becoming comics Rick.
Although I also think it's important to note that means that Rick has more or less integrated his desire for sanctuary and a more peaceful existence with the need to do some very violent things at times. Comics Rick isn't a guy you want to feth with, but he's not simply a callous hardass. He hasn't given up on the bigger idea of rebuilding civilization, and this (assuming the show continues to follow the comic in a general way) will play out in future seasons.
The Farmers.
The Trappers.
The Hillbilly cooks.
Hannibal Lector's fan club?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, how do you think they'll get out of this mess?
Personally I think this could be a great episode for Carl. Rick buried a bag of guns outside the perimeter of Terminus. If they can somehow break Carl out (him being the smallest), perhaps Carl can get to the guns and smuggle them in to the rest of the group.
Spoiler:
Remember in the comics when Carl got fed up with Rick backing down and submitting to Negan's rule? He went off on his own and sneaked into the Saviour's outpost to assassinate Negan with an M16 rifle. He failed, but managed to kill several Saviours.
Perhaps they'll bring this material/event forward and use it in the Terminus arc.
It'll be awesome to see Carl escape, find the guns and go absolutely ape gak berzerk on the cannibals. Maybe he gets shot in the process
Spoiler:
and loses an eye, as in the comics.
And perhaps Tyreese and Carol will hear the gunfire and be tipped off that Terminus isn't legit, so they can come to the rescue. They do have Judith though, but if they meet up with Beth and Father Gabriel (assuming it was he who took her), that'll free up both Tyreese and Carol to take on Terminus.
They're still the Hunters to me. *shrug* The name was ironic in the comics because they were lousy hunters of wildlife. So it kinda still works here on the same level.
I think it'll be interesting to see how they evolve for the show. Clearly they're getting a much deeper, richer mythology, and Terminus itself is obviously a lot more interesting than the house they had in the books. From the slogans on the wall, etc., they seem like a group that got burned in some way then toughened up and went down this route. I'll be interested to see if they try make them more sympathetic (this is probably impossible and the writing is usually smart, so I'm guessing not), or if they make them as loathsome as in the comics. The comic Hunters did one thing in particular that's particularly horrific.
It'll be interesting to see how their ethos evolved -- how they could on one hand obviously be so incredibly self-centered, and on the other keep that shrine room (assuming the candles, etc. are for the victims).
I'm thinking Carol/Tyreese will either hear them from outside and get the guns or will become part of the Terminus Group (if not already just not seen) and get the guns.
Actually, I like the idea that Carol and Tyreese will run into Father Gabe and Beth, stuff will happen there, and then the four of them will get the rest of them out.
For one thing, I think we can assume that Terminus will be the big set for at least half a season. So it won't be as simple as Carol and Tyreese showing up and breaking them out. For another thing, it would get the characters and plot into more or less the same place as in the comic.
Perhaps Father Gabriel is aware of what goes on in Terminus and will be able to warn Tyreese, Carol and Beth before they arrive. He has been active in the surrounding region after all. One of them sneak in, make contact with Rick & co. who tell them where to find the buried cache of weapons.
Does anyone know what the release schedule is for the comics on the Amazon Kindle? Issue 126, the conclusion of All Out War was released today but it seems that it still hasn't been released on the Kindle store.
I hoped to download it shortly after midnight, so I could read it at work over lunch...No luck.
I hoped to download it when I got home after work...no luck.
Its now 21:00 and it still hasn't been released on the Kindle store.
When the hell are you going to release it Image Comics???
This is the TV show thread! Take you're lousy comic book discussions elsewhere!
j/k I love the comic but this is for the TV Show and comic books are pretty much just spoilers for people who follow the show so maybe another thread would be appropraite.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: This is the TV show thread! Take you're lousy comic book discussions elsewhere!
j/k I love the comic but this is for the TV Show and comic books are pretty much just spoilers for people who follow the show so maybe another thread would be appropraite.
Just finished a mariton of the walking dead, just spent the last day reading this thread. Yes I read all of it.
How the hell did I miss this show?
Yes its slow in places but thats time best used for personal development and interaction between those in that world. The Zombues are impressive, I like the mixe of the Night/Dawn of the dead with hints of 28 Days later and WWZ, admittedly they don't run but the don't just shuffle at 1mph.
Reading threw this thread I giggles at how somw of you were soo far off on your perdictions of might happen to what should happen. The list of whom you should feed as zombie bate and whom you whould take as your Zompocolips team mates
Can't wait for it to return which is when by the way?
Rick going ferral on that biker dude was awesom, dind't expext that from him, but then again the rules of the world have changed.
Lots of intersting stuff - good to see one of my favs is back in it - if not in a good place on her own - wonder if this is a leadin to their spin off show
I was reading the Letter Hacks (Letters to Editors) section in the latest WD issue (WD#130) and saw an interesting letter/theory about Daryl Dixon. What is even more interesting was the editors [Kirkman et al] response to it.
[...] shows where I've skipped over parts.
Italics show the responses from the editors.
[...]
My big question is about Jesus or more about his relation to the TV show. First of all I am really happy about your portrayal of Gay characters, I'm gay myself and don't really fit into any gay stereotypes and I have to say its totally refreshing to finally see gay characters in the media that aren't just stereotypes. I also like that you didn't make Jesus' orientation a central part of his character.
So here is my question, Jesus was an all-round badass that turned out to be gay which shocked most of us until you look back and notice that nothing indicated he was straight to begin with.
Potential Season 5 spoilers:
Spoiler:
Walking Dead Wiki wrote:Paul Monroe is a natural survivalist in the zombie apocalypse, capable of extreme feats of human ability. His most notable feature is his long hair and beard similar to more recent western images of the Biblical figure, Jesus, and his friends started calling him this because they view him as 'a savior'.
Paul is also a very good hand to hand combatant. He uses his skills to dispatch zombies with ease and deal with hostile threats easily. He demonstrates this when he manages to subdue both Abraham Ford and Michonne with relative ease. Paul, however, is not just a good hand to hand combatant, he is also a good escape artist, managing to escape from the most hopeless situations [...] It was these survivalist traits that gained him the position of the Hilltop's ambassador and scouter [...]
Paul is a quick thinker and a great tactician, he is one of Rick's loyal allies and later helps Rick[...] His quick thinking and tactical nature helps him to overcome many odds, like rescuing Rick and his people[...] believing Rick is the leader humanity needs for the future and that he will do anything to help Rick make his goals a reality.
... and one character is in the exact same position in the TV show...Daryl Dixon.
I have...fantasized about having this discussion.
Absolutely nothing has given me any indication that Daryl is straight and the relationship between him and Carol makes it seem even more likely that he is not only gay but that Carol is probably the only person he has confided in so far, and I feel like little hints have been dropped about it as well along the way but maybe not. I thought of this a long time ago but now I am pretty certain of it after the most bad ass character in the comic book turned out to be gay. I feel like if you had your way that Daryl would turn out to be gay since is true to the comic book and makes total sense for his character. So the real question is, would AMC let that fly?
For the record, they absolutely would.
I think it would be awesome to make Daryl gay but I could also see extremely heavy resistance from AMC for fear of losing ratings and fear of fan backlash. The Walking Dead TV show is known for being unconventional but Daryl being gay sounds like a whole new level of unconventional even by the standards of TV today. basically I am asking how much control do you actually have over the Walking Dead TV show and if Daryl being gay is an idea that AMC wouldn't flinch at? Is Daryl being gay even an idea you would have considered and if AMC shot the idea down would you at least let us know what you originally intended for the character?
I am aware that this could have heavy spoilers for the TV show in answering these questions so I understand if this doesn't get published in the Letter Hacks but it would totally make my day to see this in the Letter Hacks two months from now.
[...]
All I can say is that its been discussed. We have very specific ideas about Daryl's sexuality (or the seeming lack thereof), and if theres ever a quiet period in the show wheres hes not constantly distracted by crossbowing...we'll tackle it in the show.
[...]
So...thoughts?
Could Daryl be gay?
Would that be a step too far for AMC, or have they done gay characters (well?) in previous shows?
Has TWD even had any gay characters to date?
It also casts Daryl's relatonships with other characters in a new light. I admit I'll be a little disappointed if hes gay as I was rooting for Beth & Daryl (Team Beryl? ) after S04E12 "Still", but If Daryl is gay then that makes them...BFF's?
If anything, it'll be worth it just to hear the furious and anguished howls of Daryl fangirls everywhere as their hopes and dreams are crushed...
I liked the whole Beth/ Daryl thing............its sweet - he's cool and she is cute - hoping for more that being said:
Gay - like the man said who cares either way as long as the chacrater is well written - and for me Daryl is one of the few things the tv show beats the comic over for me,,,,,,, if was gay or bi wouldn't bother me and may lead to some interesting plots.
Had a quick surf and I was unsurprised to note that the excellent Spartiacus series gets a lot of praise for its depiciton of gay characters, in particular that that element of their character is simpy not the most important or even a noteworthy in-universe thing.....
SPARTACUSWhen it comes to handling gay relationships in TV, to my surprise, Spartacus is the most forward thinking.The gay characters are dropped subtly into the storyline. The best example is one of the series’ lead action heroes, Agron. He is one of the lead fighters in Spartacus’ gang and then, in between episodes, he begins a gay relationship with one of the slaves he saves from the Romans. There is no explanation for when this happened, it just did. Whereas other series would make a big character development with it, Spartacus just accepted it and moved on.
It's possible. It fits the blenderization of the comic book approach that the writers take. The factory location seems to pull in another element from the Saviors.
Then again, it's just as possible that they'd also use that scene as a wink to the comic fans and pull the rug out from under us. I wouldn't put too much stock in it.
Since Kirkman is on record as saying he was ok with killing Glen in the comics because he has TV Glenn I wouldn't bet on it. Plus I thought I did see him and Maggie one or another of the walking around armed scenes.
Oh, and I wouldn't care if Darryl was gay. Sexual orientation doesn't prevent awesome
Hulksmash wrote: Since Kirkman is on record as saying he was ok with killing Glen in the comics because he has TV Glenn I wouldn't bet on it. Plus I thought I did see him and Maggie one or another of the walking around armed scenes.
Oh, and I wouldn't care if Darryl was gay. Sexual orientation doesn't prevent awesome
@ 2:20 Glen gets his head chopped off. Just sayin, I didn't see any of him or Maggie in the trailer...
Really? He appears several times, on the road OUTSIDE Terminus. In a church, where the gang is united and don't appear to be prisoners. Maggie is also present in the church - Bob Stookey is not (or at least not in frame). I'd say Bob Stookey appears to be prime candidate for butchery, plus new minor characters that will be introduced then promptly killed off (other prisoners of Terminus).
0:23. New characters. Theres at least 3 peopel I don't recognise.
1:05. Most of the gang united in what appears to be a church,. They don't appear to be prisoners so probably post escape. Bob Stookey not present as far as I can tell. Tara appears to be seated on the right between Maggie and Carl.
1:06. Glenn in church? Does not die in Terminus.
1:16 Rick (to Carl): "I don't trust this guy". Father Gabriel? I doubt its the Terminus guy - I can't believe Rick would be stupid enough to let him come with.
1:17 Bob Stookey killing walker with what looks like a machete. During escape attempt?
1:19 Particularly gross looking walker - appears to be standing in water, below a grate with Rick looking down. Reminds me of the bloated fat guy in the well on Hershel's, all bloated and rotted after soaking in water for a long period.
1:40 Confrontation in Church? Rick threatens to kill somebody if his family are hurt? Maybe they'll escape Terminus but will be pursued to the church. Ties in nicely with the Comics.
2:02 Abraham sobbing? Perhaps Rosita is killed.
2:04 Walkers infesting a compound with burning buildings in the background, and Bob & Rick armed with guns engaged in a firefight.
2:14 Another gross soggy Walker.
2:20 It does look like Glenn's getting beheaded doesn't it? Though I think its just a fakeout. If genuine, its a hell of a spoiler to put into a trailer. I think they're just beating and torturing him.
2:23 Rick unloads an AK47 into the backs of FOUR armed people. Go Rick!
Although the story hasn't made Daryl's orientation clear, if he were gay I don't think it'd ring true based on his scenes with Carol and Beth. There was a little more going on there than pure platonic friendliness.
Now, if it turns out that Daryl isn't especially particular? THAT I could believe.
gorgon wrote: Although the story hasn't made Daryl's orientation clear, if he were gay I don't think it'd ring true based on his scenes with Carol and Beth. There was a little more going on there than pure platonic friendliness.
Now, if it turns out that Daryl isn't especially particular? THAT I could believe.
Yeah, I'd paint Daryl as the safest outside of Rick and Carl. Killing him would be a heck of a OMG moment but I don't think the fallout would be worth it. Let's look at the "main" characters they have killed:
-Shane -Lori -Andrea -Dale -Herschel -T-Dog
Now, they have killed a ton of new characters/small roles. But of the original "band" or long term team members that's it. Outside of Herschel I don't miss a single one. I don't think most viewers do either. Oddly, looking at the list with the exclusion of Herschel and T-Dog it's a list of major drama makers, and not the good kind. And T-Dog was a waste of space character. Basically a stand-in till we got hammer man
I'm sure they'll still kill people they've had around the perimeter for a season or 2 like Bob from time to time to keep us guessing. And they'll keep killing same season characters in ways that make us uncomfortable (the little girls). But I don't see to much of the core at this point taking it in the pants. By core I mean: Rick, Carl, Daryl, Glenn, Maggie, Michonne. Beth and Carol are on the outside of that. Though I really, really like Carol so I hope she makes it as long as the show will let her
Yeah, the television medium is different than comic books. There's a huge amount of money at stake, and the producers won't want to mess with the special formula that's worked so far. Daryl brings in viewers, and therefore won't die unless the actor wants to move on.
Glenn is almost certainly much safer than he was in the comic just because he and Maggie represent the big romance on the show. Again, they won't screw with the secret formula.
I said before the show actually seems to be killing off people the fans don't like. Which I'm sure is fine by the fans but definately different from the comic where he only seems to go out of his way to kill characters the fans like.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I said before the show actually seems to be killing off people the fans don't like. Which I'm sure is fine by the fans but definately different from the comic where he only seems to go out of his way to kill characters the fans like.
Ironically, Merle became posthumously popular somewhat.
I certainly liked him by the end. Hell I liked him when he sat down and had the heat to heart with Hershel.
They really ought to kill off at least one popular character. Glenn, Daryl, Tyreese maybe. Terminus won't have much of an impact if the only victims are minor characters introduced for an episode or two before being sent to the chopping block (literally). Or some minor character who the audience don't really know or care about, like Bob Stookey or Tara Chambler.
What The Walking Dead needs is a gut punch akin to Baelor or the Red Wedding.
I prefered Shane to Rick
Lori was pleased to see go - sooo annoying
Andrea just wasn;t the comic Andrea who I love
the two little girls were good - interesting story there -
The last bit with the Gov was brilliant
of the current surviors
Carol is great - keep her
Beth is sweet - keep her
Daryl is just cool - keep him
Maggie and Glenn - cool keep them
Rest are just there to be killed in a dramatic way
Shane was annoying. Super clingy and a petulant control freak.
I quite like Rick, and I'm starting to like Carl too. Their story arcs are getting closer to the comics, which is a good thing.
Lori was pleased to see go - sooo annoying
Agreed.
Andrea just wasn;t the comic Andrea who I love
I think Carol may be adopting some of her aspects.
the two little girls were good - interesting story there -
Very similar to the comics, only they were two twin boys adopted by Andrea & Dale, and it was Carl who killed the killer to protect Sophia (who is still alive, a parallel to Judith).
The last bit with the Gov was brilliant
I seem to be in a minority. The two Governor centric episodes were some of my favourite. His death was great, though I would have preferred that instead of giving him a mercy killing with a bullet to the head, Amy Chambler shoved him into a pack of Walkers.
Carol is great - keep her
Andrea Mk 2?
Beth is sweet - keep her
Anything goes with her. She has no direct counterpart in the comics, and all the Greene children bar Maggie died in or before the Prison. If Beth lives, it'll be original material or material borrowed from other characters. I'm leaning towards the former.
Daryl is just cool - keep him
Agreed. Though if they ever do kill him...
Spoiler:
It should be now, in Terminus as a victim of the cannibals (which almost certainly won't happen as he's in several shots in the trailer).
Or he should get his brains beaten out by Negan, like Glenn did in the comics.
Losing Hershel was way sadder for me than either wedding or Ned in GoT. Even if I knew it was coming. Then again, I knew the wedding's and Ned were too.
So Carol single-handedly busted them out (well, her and 1000 walkers). Gotta admit I expected Terminus to last longer as a setting. ALTHOUGH, it seems clear that there are survivors, and bumping into them again might bring things around closer to the comic book after all. Note Rick's comment about the machete. Anyway, is penance the right word at work for Carol here? I think she did hers.
And Rick is definitely becoming the Rick we know from the books. Great to see Tyreese take care of business. And MORGAN! Never saw that one coming.
The band is back together now, and from here it should get even more interesting. EDIT -- never mind...thought that guy at the end was someone else.
My only niggle with it was that no major character died, all the Heroes got away totally unscathed yet again and it all feels very convenient. Still, as Gareth and a few others survived, I expect it'll end much the same way as in the comics so...
Spoiler:
...maybe someone will be picked off and killed by Terminus survivors stalking the group [Dale], provoking Rick & co. into a final confrontation. I'm really looking forward to seeing that machete in action. Also, judging by a moment in the Season trailers when Abraham sinks to his knees sobbing, my guess is that it will be Rosita or Eugene. Probably Rosita.
My only niggle with it was that no major character died, all the Heroes got away totally unscathed yet again and it all feels very convenient. Still, as Gareth and a few others survived, I expect it'll end much the same way as in the comics so...
Spoiler:
...maybe someone will be picked off and killed by Terminus survivors stalking the group [Dale], provoking Rick & co. into a final confrontation. I'm really looking forward to seeing that machete in action. Also, judging by a moment in the Season trailers when Abraham sinks to his knees sobbing, my guess is that it will be Rosita or Eugene. Probably Rosita.
we did just lose a bunch of people though, and I think its more fun when I dont know someone dies every premier, ending, ect... I was really afraid for glen, I think they were purposefully dangling his death in front of us.
we lost michonnes sword too!
the bit at the end though, where that first guy rick ever meets shows up....
I love rambo carol though... her and daryl are really starting to outclass rick a bit. though rick has been much better last season, and this season, same with karl.
So my edit in the earlier post was because I originally SOILED MY PANTS (figuratively) after seeing the guy at the end in the dark train car, who looked a lot like the biggest fething feth that ever fething walked the fething earth. I mean, I actually did a fist pump on my couch. But then I backtracked after they said it was the guy they let out of the train car. But I wasn't the only one who thought that...methinks that they were teasing us a bit.
gorgon wrote: So my edit in the earlier post was because I originally SOILED MY PANTS (figuratively) after seeing the guy at the end in the dark train car, who looked a lot like the biggest fething feth that ever fething walked the fething earth. I mean, I actually did a fist pump on my couch. But then I backtracked after they said it was the guy they let out of the train car. But I wasn't the only one who thought that...methinks that they were teasing us a bit.
That really looked like Negan. I didn't see anywhere where they said that was the guy in the container.
As for the guy in the container, what do you think he meant by, "We are the same!" I think he meant that the inhabitants of terminus are the same as the zombies in that they both eat people.
Andrew1975 wrote: That really looked like Negan. I didn't see anywhere where they said that was the guy in the container.
As for the guy in the container, what do you think he meant by, "We are the same!" I think he meant that the inhabitants of terminus are the same as the zombies in that they both eat people.
I read in a review that the line the sea container guy said is a reference to a speech Rick made in the comics. I'm inclined to believe that, but I don't remember which speech or when Rick said that so I'll have to go back and look.
Andrew1975 wrote: That really looked like Negan. I didn't see anywhere where they said that was the guy in the container.
As for the guy in the container, what do you think he meant by, "We are the same!" I think he meant that the inhabitants of terminus are the same as the zombies in that they both eat people.
I read in a review that the line the sea container guy said is a reference to a speech Rick made in the comics. I'm inclined to believe that, but I don't remember which speech or when Rick said that so I'll have to go back and look.
The reunion scene was particularly touching, but what moved me more than Rick/Carl reuniting with Judith was Carol and Daryl's reunion. Their relationship is intriguing and while I am not necessarily convinced it is romantic in anyway, I like the connection that they have. And I am so glad that Carol is back with the group.
Just watched again, that has to be Negan at the end. I think crazy tattooed guy is someone completely different. I know that the cast and crew are denying it, but I'm not buying it. Also the have to run into Gareth again, I saw some scenes with him that were not in last nights episode, so I'm going to say that the two groups come into conflict again.
Andrew1975 wrote: Just watched again, that has to be Negan at the end. I think crazy tattooed guy is someone completely different. I know that the cast and crew are denying it, but I'm not buying it. Also the have to run into Gareth again, I saw some scenes with him that were not in last nights episode, so I'm going to say that the two groups come into conflict again.
\
guy at the end is 100% not neegan...
hes that first guy rick met, they then went to his place and picked up a bunch of guns
Andrew1975 wrote: Just watched again, that has to be Negan at the end. I think crazy tattooed guy is someone completely different. I know that the cast and crew are denying it, but I'm not buying it. Also the have to run into Gareth again, I saw some scenes with him that were not in last nights episode, so I'm going to say that the two groups come into conflict again.
\
guy at the end is 100% not neegan...
hes that first guy rick met, they then went to his place and picked up a bunch of guns
Andrew1975 wrote: Just watched again, that has to be Negan at the end. I think crazy tattooed guy is someone completely different. I know that the cast and crew are denying it, but I'm not buying it. Also the have to run into Gareth again, I saw some scenes with him that were not in last nights episode, so I'm going to say that the two groups come into conflict again.
Several other people mentioned the crazy guy was also the rapist in the last "Then" section - helped complete the circle with the former victims becoming what they been victimised by......
Good season opener - Carole is just the buisness - even Rick was good this episode
Andrew1975 wrote: Just watched again, that has to be Negan at the end. I think crazy tattooed guy is someone completely different. I know that the cast and crew are denying it, but I'm not buying it. Also the have to run into Gareth again, I saw some scenes with him that were not in last nights episode, so I'm going to say that the two groups come into conflict again.
\
guy at the end is 100% not neegan...
hes that first guy rick met, they then went to his place and picked up a bunch of guns
Spoiler:
Morgan Jones
Um...Morgan is the guy in the post credits teaser. The guy that people are discussing is the guy in the train car in the darkness. To be fair, what happened at Terminus wasn't really Negan's style anyway.
Um...Morgan is the guy in the post credits teaser. The guy that people are discussing is the guy in the train car in the darkness. To be fair, what happened at Terminus wasn't really Negan's style anyway.
Yeah, 10-4 on that.
Easysause was talking about the "first guy Rick met" which is was clarifying is Morgan. However, there is a slight breakdown because Andrew and Easy are talking about two different people.
big guy in the crates was also not neegan, pretty sure hes an inconsequential character like one of the last people who previously took over sanctuary.
we are still a long ways off from meeting neegan I think.
I expect him to be introduced in the season finale at the earliest.
Still have beth to find, still have to "get to Washington and save the world" and who knows what else will be added in to make it different from the comics.
easysauce wrote: big guy in the crates was also not neegan, pretty sure hes an inconsequential character like one of the last people who previously took over sanctuary.
we are still a long ways off from meeting neegan I think.
I expect him to be introduced in the season finale at the earliest.
Still have beth to find, still have to "get to Washington and save the world" and who knows what else will be added in to make it different from the comics.
I agree, that guy toward the end before the credits wasn't Negan.
I know they've changed characters when bringing them in to the show, but I don't think they would change Negan that much; it would kind of ruin the character.
Loved this episode. They're clearly not done with the Terminus arc though.
Carol just out Rambo'd Rambo.
Good to see Tereese remains a full operational battle station. I'm glad that ended like it did. Don't mess with Lil Scrapper!
Frazzled wrote: Loved this episode. They're clearly not done with the Terminus arc though.
Carol just out Rambo'd Rambo.
Good to see Tereese remains a full operational battle station. I'm glad that ended like it did. Don't mess with Lil Scrapper!
What do they do now?
Don't get too ahead of yourself with Tyreese... he may be back to mowing down zombies, but his psyche is as fragile as ever.
I don't think he'll make to the end of the season.
Was a great episode. The pace has been amazing since the beginning of season 4 and it's maintaining. Best thing that has happened to this show is Scott Gimpel (sp?) being the show runner.
Was super pumped to see Morgan looking together, not crazy, and on his way to be with more humans. That guy is awesome.
I don't mind the blender approach they take to the comics source material...it keeps things interesting and creates new relationships and dynamics. But I do like that (at least, this is how it feels to me) that they've been giving more nods to particular moments from the source material lately, and look to be doing even more of that this season, even as they introduce new materials and new angles.
Not a big fan of the show first season was great second was alright... then it dropped off for me and I have no real drive to watch the show I just lost interest.
I am all for survival drama and I hope my opinion dose not deter people to not watch the show.
Its hard for me to get into TV in general not a big fan.
Anyone else find it funny it was renewed for Season 6 before the first episode of Season 5 aired? I mean, at least Game of Thrones pretends to wait till the first episode of the season
zombiekila707 wrote: Not a big fan of the show first season was great second was alright... then it dropped off for me and I have no real drive to watch the show I just lost interest.
I am all for survival drama and I hope my opinion dose not deter people to not watch the show.
Its hard for me to get into TV in general not a big fan.
I thought it was a good opening to the season. The kosher killing at the beginning was a bit much, but I guess they had to please the die hard fans. What I want to know is how do they keep that baby so quiet most of the time?
What a crazy, gruesome premiere. Expected the whole terminus thing to last like the whole season but so glad it didn't. This is the way to do it, set up a villain and knock them down. No Governor hanging around for two years.
Carol suddenly jumps to the top of the badass chart. She took out a whole town!
Hulksmash wrote: Bob, Tyrese, and Rosita go down this season no doubt.
Possible deaths include Abraham, Scientist, Tyrese's sister, and that chick that was with the govenor.
You mean Eugene?
I'd be shocked if he bites it just because how important he becomes down the road. Although I suppose it's easy enough to introduce a new character with that skill set. I think it'll be interesting to see what happens with Abraham.
I'm betting on Rosita biting the bullet. There's a scene in the season trailer when Abraham sinks to his knees sobbing. I can see him sobbing over Rosita dying but not Eugene. The latter's death would probably send him berserk.
Other candidates are Bob, Tara and Sascha, who are mostly minor characters. Tyreese too because his psyche is fragile, and that could be foreshadowing his death.
Abraham won't die until you-know-who and his band of merry men are introduced in Washington.
Spoiler:
Abraham's death was one of the more memorable in the comics, and only came after he'd had a fair bit of character development. On the show, Abraham is brand new and we haven't had a chance to get to know him first so it's too early to kill him off. Season 6 maybe.
I don't think Carol will die, I think she's getting some of the material from the comic book Andrea' s character arc (post prison) and may become the shows equivalent to badass Andrea. Case in point. Comic book Andrea was the group's designated sniper. And what does Carol do in 5x02? Snipe.
I'm guessing a relationship will develop with her and Rick. They've known each other from the beginning and been close friends. Ricks obviously forgiven her actions in the prison and may even have re evaluated those actions. And she's been a surrogate mother for Judith for a while.
Morgan isn't going anywhere. If I remember right he's still in the comics and on Talking Dead they were talking about how much fans love him just from his two appearances. No way he goes down this season.
Rosita is toast. I'd bank on Tyrese being toast (we don't need 3 bruisers). And Bob. Cause he's Bob
Hulksmash wrote: Morgan isn't going anywhere. If I remember right he's still in the comics and on Talking Dead they were talking about how much fans love him just from his two appearances. No way he goes down this season.
Rosita is toast. I'd bank on Tyrese being toast (we don't need 3 bruisers). And Bob. Cause he's Bob
??? I thought morgan was long dead in the comics, maybe I will re read and please let me know what issue he reappears in if I am wrong, but IIRC he isnt there after the prison and really isnt mentioned after the 2nd time rick meets him after his kid dies.
rosita does seem like a prime candidate, esp since she doesnt get much developement, but I think she will last at least until after abraham dies as she is a pretty big part of his (and eugenes) character arc.
tyrese, girl who helps glen cause she feels bad about being with the govenor, Bob, tyreses sister, and beth are most at risk IMO,
beth might be safe as she could very well be the introducer of the preacher character, and develope daryls character, but the other ones seem fairly self contained in their stories so seem more expendable.
I still want Carl to bite it. Ever since the pudding episode I have felt like he is on borrowed time.
It might be a shocker to the system if Maggie goes this season, and could create some interesting story opportunities for Glenn. I'd be upset if Morgan got killed off this season. I want to see that character developed more and the actor playing Morgan is a delight to watch so I hope he is given some serious screen time in future episodes.
My buddy and I have a lunch bet that Daryl will get killed this season... He doesn't think he will because he's so popular and I think he will because he is so popular.
I'm betting on Rosita biting the bullet. There's a scene in the season trailer when Abraham sinks to his knees sobbing. I can see him sobbing over Rosita dying but not Eugene. The latter's death would probably send him berserk.
Other candidates are Bob, Tara and Sascha, who are mostly minor characters. Tyreese too because his psyche is fragile, and that could be foreshadowing his death.
Abraham won't die until you-know-who and his band of merry men are introduced in Washington.
Spoiler:
Abraham's death was one of the more memorable in the comics, and only came after he'd had a fair bit of character development. On the show, Abraham is brand new and we haven't had a chance to get to know him first so it's too early to kill him off. Season 6 maybe.
I don't think Carol will die, I think she's getting some of the material from the comic book Andrea' s character arc (post prison) and may become the shows equivalent to badass Andrea. Case in point. Comic book Andrea was the group's designated sniper. And what does Carol do in 5x02? Snipe.
I'm guessing a relationship will develop with her and Rick. They've known each other from the beginning and been close friends. Ricks obviously forgiven her actions in the prison and may even have re evaluated those actions. And she's been a surrogate mother for Judith for a while.
I think that's a fair point re: sniping. I have my doubts about her getting the other part of Andrea's material, though. I'm just not sure that her and Rick getting cuddly would work in the show. I'd expect that material to go to a new character at some point.
My rationale for Carol dying is that it'd be a good, solid gut punch after her return to the show and doing penace for her sins. A lot of the deaths you guys are talking about are very "safe" deaths. The show does have more constraints on who it can kill than the comic. Beyond Rick and Carl obviously being safe, Daryl is clearly the breakout character of the show, Michonne is too iconic to expire, and I think Glenn and Maggie as the romantic component will be bat-proof indefinitely even after Lucille is introduced. But I don't think Gimple is going to let the show go too "soft" in that regard.
Maybe Tyreese fits the bill. But even he is maybe B-list at best in terms of viewers' emotional attachment to the character. The Carol character is A-list emotionally, and yet not as necessary to the show as the other A-listers. I'm not saying that I'm right, it's just my rationale for why I chose her.
And although Abraham's gang has tracked closely to the comic, I don't think that means Abraham's fate will go down quite the same way.
To be honest, it does feel like they've just added in new characters. I know they've been in a bunch of episodes now, but we don't really *know* a tonne of them.
The way I see it, Tyreese's storyline is kinda done now. There's no real drama that can be milked out of him and, as people have said, there's now 3 'tough guys'.
I mean, sure, they can kill his sister but... They've already done that storyline with him earlier by having him assume she's dead.
It seems to me that they'll get more mileage out of, say, Tyreese dying and putting his sister further forward as a character. This would then open for more drama with her and the drunken cowardly medic dude.
Hulksmash wrote: Morgan isn't going anywhere. If I remember right he's still in the comics and on Talking Dead they were talking about how much fans love him just from his two appearances. No way he goes down this season.
Rosita is toast. I'd bank on Tyrese being toast (we don't need 3 bruisers). And Bob. Cause he's Bob
Nope. Morgan is dead. As is Tyreese.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Only complaint is one of the main characters should have died. Everyone is too safe on the show right now.
Aye. Imagine tthe gut punch episode 1 could have been if Daryl or Glenn was the one getting butchered on the table, not Alex (the Termite killed at the end of last season).
I knew Tyreese was dead. Herschel took his death on the show. I could have sworn Morgan made it to the Alexandria Enclave, but it's been years. oh well
Actually I should probably look it up... I could have sworn Morgan dies between the exodus from the prison and Alexandria but I'm not so sure.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You're right, he does make it to DC. My bad.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Speaking of DC... wouldn't it be cool in the comics or the show if some of the characters decided to go sight seeing and see what's become of the White House?
Well, they made a point to say "We're not afraid to be dark this season" with that episode and I liked it!. Carol certainly earned her place back in the group.
Gotta be honest, kinda glad to finally see Bob go, with his talk of optimism with Rick and kissy time with Sasha you know he's gonna go, it's just like Dale when he gave his "we are still human" speech, he pretty much gave his own eulogy when he did, Bob ain't no different. Just nice to see we aren't left hanging with the cannibals being up and gone after the fireworks and they're going to be a pervasive threat this first half of the season.
I expect Bob to meet the same fate as Dale from the comics, complete with the "tainted meat" bit.
Yeah...
Spoiler:
...I was surprised that it didn't come up on Talking Dead, but I thought it was fairly obvious that Bob had been bitten/wounded and was walking off to kill himself...the crying, the kiss with Sasha, etc.
There were a lot of nice little touches in this episode. The writing above the altar in the church..."He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life."...and also the woodcarving(?) of the Last Supper. Heh. There also seemed to be a heaven/hell thing going on at the end, with Rick and company in high spirits in the church, while Bob and the Hunters were in the wild surrounded by flame.
And then there were the kid's drawings relating to Moses and the Exodus...perhaps a look ahead?
Anyway, as a fan of the comic, it was good to see the Hunters officially become the Hunters.
Alpharius wrote: The show was facing the same danger as the comic: verging on torture/violence porn where, OMG, THE HUMANS ARE THE REAL MONSTERS!!!!~!1!!
It is a tough balancing act though, I'll admit.
Also, I am NOT looking forward to Negan.
His arc in the book goes on for WAY too long...
Mild comic spoilers...
Spoiler:
I didn't mind it. *shrug* I feel like that arc was an important step before the formation of a rudimentary post-holocaust society. Besides, I feel like the Hunters arc has the potential to last longer than it was in the comics, so we still have some time. And even if it wraps up relatively quickly, plenty of stuff could happen on the road before they even get to DC. And then there's time in DC before Negan even shows. I figure he'll arrive sometime during season 6.
Kevin Durand was apparently approached for Negan, although he may not be the only one.
Negan is very good in the comics but it will be interesting to see if he works in live action - lets face it quite a few people thought Abraham and crew just looked silly when they turned up and they looked very like their comic alter egos?
Mr Morden wrote: lets face it quite a few people thought Abraham and crew just looked silly when they turned up and they looked very like their comic alter egos?
Which I never understood.
I appreciate the fact that those characters were pretty accurate to their comic counterparts. Because let's face it, if they weren't, people would have bitched about it.
Alpharius wrote: You get a bit of BETH news in this past Sunday's episode!
In the Uk so tonight or tomorrow I think. thanks
is it good or bad news?
Spoiler:
Daryl and Carol spot the car that was used to kidnap Beth, and they go AWOL in pursuit, hoping to track the driver to Beth's location so they can rescue her.
The trailer for next episode has a line from Sascha saying "Three of us are gone!", meaning the group don't know where D&C have gone, plus Bob who was kidnapped.
To be honest - I'd be quite happy with a Daryl, Carol and Beth show (and likely so would they)........
@ Scooty - yeah I agree but I think people who didn't read the comics just felt they looked silly - could be wrong. I am hoping the translation of Negan (if it happens) doesn't have the same issues.............
So, not gonna lie. I thought the kid in the shack in the first episode that Tyreese beat all to hell was Kevin Durand till I checked IMDB. He looked enough like him that I had to at least check.
That said Durand is an awesome bad guy so I would love to see him a Negan.
Well, I'm late to the party watching the season opener but I'm surprised they didn't milk at least a couple more episodes out of Terminus given the build up at the end of last season.
Alpharius wrote: The show was facing the same danger as the comic: verging on torture/violence porn where, OMG, THE HUMANS ARE THE REAL MONSTERS!!!!~!1!!
...
Ya, well that's The Walking Dead. I wouldn't call it "being in danger" of being like the comic. It's just being The Walking Dead. What else should it be like?
I've been bitten, you stupid pricks! You're eating tainted meat! Haha hahaheee haha! TAINTED MEAT!
My favourite line so far this Season.
Only watched the first 2 min so far but I'm guessing this episode is going to be my favourite TWD episode to date. Looking forward to that "machete with a red handle" making a cameo.
I've been bitten, you stupid pricks! You're eating tainted meat! Haha hahaheee haha! TAINTED MEAT!
My favourite line so far this Season.
Only watched the first 2 min so far but I'm guessing this episode is going to be my favourite TWD episode to date. Looking forward to that "machete with a red handle" making a cameo.
Spoiler:
Calling it. Beth's back!
Ok, just to get this straight you don't need Spoiler Tag stuff that happened in the TV show because the thread title warns there will be spoilers and everyone who follows the thread understands it's a post show discussion. You just need to spoiler tag stuff that happened in the comic book because it takes place much further ahead in the storyline and so spoils both future episodes of the TV show for people who haven't read the comic as well as people who may wish to read the comic at some point.
Anyway, this has been a heck of a start to the season. I think once again this version of this story is actually better than comic because it really developed The Hunters a lot more. They didn't just come out of no where.
Well, I spoilered it because the episode only aired a couple hours ago and some people may not have seen it yet. A day later, and I would not have / will not bother, because the reverse will be true.
Excellent episode. Again. Seems like they are dead set on not staying anywhere for more than 2 episodes as next week we should see Beth's rescue and renunion and then they'll be on the road again.
The show is so good when they are moving and showing us the wider world.
We're so used to the show stretching storylines out that this pace is a little shocking. Clearly they're going to add in some other storylines, but it sure does seem like they're eager to get the crew to the next big stage of the story as outlined in the comics.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Well, I spoilered it because the episode only aired a couple hours ago and some people may not have seen it yet. A day later, and I would not have / will not bother, because the reverse will be true.
I appreciated it as we don't get it in the UK till tonight
gorgon wrote: We're so used to the show stretching storylines out that this pace is a little shocking. Clearly they're going to add in some other storylines, but it sure does seem like they're eager to get the crew to the next big stage of the story as outlined in the comics.
No kidding. I expected the hunters storyline to be at least 3-4 episodes....
And I'm still really NOT looking forward to the inevitable Negan arc.
Spoiler:
Was length your issue with the Negan arc?
I thought the length was appropriate given that he a) was the best villain of the series, and b) represents an important obstacle on the path to re-establishing civilization. Some used to call him "just another Governor," but if you look past the brutality, he offered and represented something fundamentally different and important.
gorgon wrote: We're so used to the show stretching storylines out that this pace is a little shocking. Clearly they're going to add in some other storylines, but it sure does seem like they're eager to get the crew to the next big stage of the story as outlined in the comics.
No kidding. I expected the hunters storyline to be at least 3-4 episodes....
Well technically it was since we were introduced to them the last episode of last season but the Terminus part of the story was all new content. The actual adaptation part of Fear The Hunters was 2 episodes though. I remember discussing that storyline in the thread a long time ago and saying how I didn't really care for it and I hope it's only 1-2 episodes long. I can't believe that's what they actually did! I'm very happy with the way they decided to do it.
And I'm still really NOT looking forward to the inevitable Negan arc.
Spoiler:
Was length your issue with the Negan arc?
I thought the length was appropriate given that he a) was the best villain of the series, and b) represents an important obstacle on the path to re-establishing civilization. Some used to call him "just another Governor," but if you look past the brutality, he offered and represented something fundamentally different and important.
Spoiler:
For the most part I enjoyed the Negan storyline but it did get drawn out. Problem with the comic now is that it's really big in the TPBs so every story needs to be in 6 issue increments. So if you've got a storyline that's about 8-9 issues long suddenly it needs to be a 12 parter.
I just don't know how they can do Negan on TV. He usually has 3-4 swearwords per sentence. However, since the death of The Govenor the show has regained my faith in its ability to do adaptations
Ya, can't really go by the comic for "who's going to get it next!". Have to use our TV knowledge for that and that's why I went with the redshirt "Ensign Bob." Looks like the next storyline is going to be completely original and not from the comic too.
What I don't really get is why Eugene and co drove off. The threat of the Hunters was dealt with, nothing to worry about, they had a working van too in case they needed an emergency extraction.
Compel wrote: What I don't really get is why Eugene and co drove off. The threat of the Hunters was dealt with, nothing to worry about, they had a working van too in case they needed an emergency extraction.
It seemed a bit contrived to me, to be honest.
Well two Alpha Males were also butting heads - and both realsied that there was only one way that was going to end.
Reflecting on it - this was a really good episode with lots of possible repercussions for the group.
Okay, let's try to clarify the ground rules of this thread. I've updated the thread title to make it more clear, and I've put these rules into the first post in the thread as well.
It is assumed that anyone reading this thread has seen the latest episode of the TV show. If you haven't THEN STOP READING IMMEDIATELY UNLESS YOU'RE THE KIND OF PERSON THAT LIKES TO READ THE LAST PAGE OF A NOVEL FIRST.
However, this is a thread about the TV show. Therefore, any talk of any characters or plot developments in the comic books must be put inside of spoiler tags (when you're making a post there is a button that says 'spoiler' that puts spoiler tags around content you want to hide).
Transgressors will be fed to the walkers!
So the peeps sitting here talking about Neegan (or whatever his name is) out of spoiler tags are bad, bad people and should go stand in the corner!
-----
As for this week's episode, I agree it was another strong one. It did feel a quite a bit forced the way the group just 'had' to split up, but then again I was thinking about how weird and unwieldy it was to have them all together in the same place, so I guess you can't have it both ways.
I was also a bit surprised that the 'hunters' were willing to put down their weapons and try to reason with Rick after he just executed two of their men in front of them. But I guess their buddy that had escaped from Tyrese had probably told the rest of the group about how they were still 'moral' people so they probably thought they could still reason their way out, despite everything they'd done.
It was also strange that they foreshadowed the glass cracking on the school windows, because I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought Rick's scouting party was going to show up at the school and get ambushed by hundreds of walkers (I'm sure that was the hunter's plan), but do we think the horde is still going to get out and now rampage towards the church forcing Rick's group to have to flee on short notice? Or was it all just a red-herring to try to trick the audience into thinking something else was going to happen?
, which I'm okay with.
) after S04E12 "Still", but If Daryl is gay then that makes them...BFF's?
