All the pics I posted come from the Bolter & Chainsword, not my own (sorry should have said). They show up for me but their server might be getting put under strain!
Those mods are fantastic. Really loving them. Then I see the prices. Paying $43 for plastic tacticals and $30 for a monopose miniature? There goes hope GW has learned something. Prices going up make me sad.
TheKbob wrote: Those mods are fantastic. Really loving them. Then I see the prices. Paying $43 for plastic tacticals and $30 for a monopose miniature? There goes hope GW has learned something. Prices going up make me sad.
Its really strange, because $30 for a single dude is insanely expensive, but then you look at the tyranid swarm boxed set, or the deathclaw box, and realize that youre paying $100+ less for the models than you would if you bought them separately. I dont understand the logic of hiking individual boxed prices up but making their campaign/starter set prices a robbed-at-gunpoint steal.
I'm also excited to start a new army, this will be the first since Orks back in 5th that I really throw myself in to. Everything since has just been me kinda testing paint schemes on a larger scale than I should have.
Going to Warhammer World on the 17th to battle with some friends. Wonder how much of an army I can assemble, paint and base on 32mm bases by then?!
EDIT: Is that £26 I see for the Tac in real money? A £1 premium is acceptable to me if so. Will be even more acceptable with Dark Sphere
sockwithaticket wrote: No worries, fella. Kudos for being a gentleman on the internet. For what it's worth I can see where you're coming from and I'm not averse to all fluff changes, I just happen to disagree in this case as I think it would be too drastic.
Now, this Priest sums up how I feel about a lot of recent GW releases. The constituent parts are quite cool (the arms especially so), but the whole doesn't quite do it for me.
I'm not sure what's going on behind his head and the gorget seems to be way to tall; the robes don't really fit if that's meant to be Corbulo, Need to see some more angles before drawing a definitive conclusion.
However, the body looks like it could be a good basis for a Mephiston. Do we perhaps have a multipart plastic kit inbound that could be used to make one of Corbulo, Mephiston or a generic Sanguinary Priest?
I'm not a big fan of the colours used to paint the model. I think the model itself could be pretty good but those colours look a bit weird to me. Not really gold, more of a bone kind of colour which I can't understand.
sockwithaticket wrote: The constituent parts are quite cool (the arms especially so), but the whole doesn't quite do it for me.
I agree with you there. The chainsword arm is awesome and the outstretched arm would look killer with a bolter in it. I will buy it just to make some kind of super cool veteran sergeant
valkyriePROfail wrote: I don´t see that new SG with jump pack, stance doesnt fit jp at all. On the other hand, face doesnt look like Corbulo at all.
I´m confused. Isn´t a face redesign too much?
He doesn`t have a jump pack. He can get one at a guess assuming the codex allows. The face doesnt look like corbulo cos it is not corbulo though he could be but why is it an issue if it is redesigned. Not like it matters
valkyriePROfail wrote: I don´t see that new SG with jump pack, stance doesnt fit jp at all. On the other hand, face doesnt look like Corbulo at all.
I´m confused. Isn´t a face redesign too much?
He doesn`t have a jump pack. He can get one at a guess assuming the codex allows. The face doesnt look like corbulo cos it is not corbulo though he could be but why is it an issue if it is redesigned. Not like it matters
I didnt say he has a jp, just that the stance doesn´t fit it at all. Current SG model stance does fit both bp and jp nicely
prowla wrote: I actually do like these, there's a certain 'old school' vibe to them. Just hoping there's no 'centurion' style surprise lurking in the releases
Centurions with blood drops and wings EVERYWHERE !!!
evildrcheese wrote: Anyone notice that on the pic of the cover, at the bottom it shows regular dreadnoughts as an elites choice now, if I'm not mistaken...
D
Might possibly offer an upgrade to become a furioso and librarian dreads.
evildrcheese wrote: Anyone notice that on the pic of the cover, at the bottom it shows regular dreadnoughts as an elites choice now, if I'm not mistaken...
D
Speaking of this, can anyone make out in that image what the base points cost of a Sanguinary Guard squad is? I think it's just a bit too blurry.
evildrcheese wrote: Anyone notice that on the pic of the cover, at the bottom it shows regular dreadnoughts as an elites choice now, if I'm not mistaken...
D
Might possibly offer an upgrade to become a furioso and librarian dreads.
evildrcheese wrote: Anyone notice that on the pic of the cover, at the bottom it shows regular dreadnoughts as an elites choice now, if I'm not mistaken...
D
Speaking of this, can anyone make out in that image what the base points cost of a Sanguinary Guard squad is? I think it's just a bit too blurry.
evildrcheese wrote: Anyone notice that on the pic of the cover, at the bottom it shows regular dreadnoughts as an elites choice now, if I'm not mistaken...
D
Speaking of this, can anyone make out in that image what the base points cost of a Sanguinary Guard squad is? I think it's just a bit too blurry.
33 points i`d say
Which would be hot to death. 33 points equates to what... 165 for 5 dudes? Im pretty ok with that, if all other things remain the same.
evildrcheese wrote: Anyone notice that on the pic of the cover, at the bottom it shows regular dreadnoughts as an elites choice now, if I'm not mistaken...
D
Might possibly offer an upgrade to become a furioso and librarian dreads.
Maybe, but that would mean we lose the ability to field 3 dreads in elite slots and 3 dreads in a heavy slot (not to mention DC dreads in troop slots)...
I'm still optimistic for what this codex might bring.
prowla wrote: I actually do like these, there's a certain 'old school' vibe to them. Just hoping there's no 'centurion' style surprise lurking in the releases
Centurions with blood drops and wings EVERYWHERE !!!
Space Marines wearing nothing but BLOOD.
Notice the CAD nipples and lovingly sculpted penises!
Its sold out pretty much everywhere apart from the UK. Think the main problem is the terminator squad.
In saying that IF there is a special blood angel terminator squad then keeping the regular termies and using the parts from said fancy terminator kit will give you two squads assuming of course there is a special termie unit coming out
Except for the Orks CE (Orks didnt get a painting guide) all 7th Ed CEs with a price like the Sang Guard Edition, contained two books and an art folio. The books were the codex and the painting guide. It may be different this time but as we already know there is a PG I would not bet on a supp anymore
evildrcheese wrote: Anyone notice that on the pic of the cover, at the bottom it shows regular dreadnoughts as an elites choice now, if I'm not mistaken...
D
Might possibly offer an upgrade to become a furioso and librarian dreads.
Maybe, but that would mean we lose the ability to field 3 dreads in elite slots and 3 dreads in a heavy slot (not to mention DC dreads in troop slots)...
I'm still optimistic for what this codex might bring.
D
Me too. Particularly if sanguinary guard are 33 points per model. Theyve been one of my favorite units for a long time. This one change makes them perfect.
I don't understand why there wouldn't be a BA supplement when every other 7th edition release has gotten one. Do you think they aren't throwing it in the limited edition releases anymore and saving for the next week?
JuniorRS13 wrote: I don't understand why there wouldn't be a BA supplement when every other 7th edition release has gotten one. Do you think they aren't throwing it in the limited edition releases anymore and saving for the next week?
Grey Knights didn;t get a supplement along with thier 7E Codex.
Honestly though, the supplements are just a way to milk $50 out of us for a few detachments they could have just included in the main codex.
JuniorRS13 wrote: I don't understand why there wouldn't be a BA supplement when every other 7th edition release has gotten one. Do you think they aren't throwing it in the limited edition releases anymore and saving for the next week?
Grey Knights didn;t get a supplement along with thier 7E Codex.
Honestly though, the supplements are just a way to milk $50 out of us for a few detachments they could have just included in the main codex.
Ahh forgot about GK. I was actually forward though to the BA supplement. Hopefully the codex does not disappoint.
Either way. Still very excited for this release. If there is no supplement the codex could be stronger than the other releases such as DE, SW or orks that included a supplement.
Can't go anywhere but up when it comes to BA though...
The Sanguinary Priest looks pretty good to me. I would've rather had it not have the robe though. Otherwise he looks good. I am probably going to put a helmed head on him though. Most of the blister plastic marine kits have a helmet head or a bare head so hopefully he has both.
LutherMax wrote: The priest kit / blister is perfect for kitbash / conversion. I'm pretty sure that was the intention.
Not really. The single-frame plastic characters generally go together in a very specific way with little room for variation. They occasionally have options, or are put together in a way that allows some changes (like a different shoulder pad), but otherwise they require a lot of chopping and changing to make them into something else. They aren't just regular Marines that can be combined with the standard kit.
LutherMax wrote: The priest kit / blister is perfect for kitbash / conversion. I'm pretty sure that was the intention.
Not really. The single-frame plastic characters generally go together in a very specific way with little room for variation. They occasionally have options, or are put together in a way that allows some changes (like a different shoulder pad), but otherwise they require a lot of chopping and changing to make them into something else. They aren't just regular Marines that can be combined with the standard kit.
Pretty much this. The only options the SM blisters have had is helmet or bare head on the Captain or Chaplain. At best, that is what we will get with the Sanguinary Priest, helmets head or bare head. The poses are almost always static though. If it doesn't have a helmeted head, I will have to take one from the new tactical box.
Either way its a super sexy model. Though i dont know how it ISNT corbulo. It has a chalice, lacks a jump pack, and weilds a unique looking chainsword. Not misleading at all.
LutherMax wrote: The priest kit / blister is perfect for kitbash / conversion. I'm pretty sure that was the intention.
Not really. The single-frame plastic characters generally go together in a very specific way with little room for variation. They occasionally have options, or are put together in a way that allows some changes (like a different shoulder pad), but otherwise they require a lot of chopping and changing to make them into something else. They aren't just regular Marines that can be combined with the standard kit.
Yes, but the Nurgle Lord in Fantasy is by far the most used model in conversions by Blanche, Migsula on this Dakka site, etc. and it's a plastic single-frame. So I am sure it will be done. The robes even invite DA players to convert it, and I definitely could see the Mephiston opportunities.
I hate the nipples, but love the sword, and I am definitely seeing a lot of Vampire Counts influence here--That's a lot like Mannfred's sword, but with chain-y bits. I have converted most of my Tactical marines with DC bits, but this new Tactical squad kit is still tempting. See the Sanguinary Guard torso on that Sergeant? Definitely more artisan-quality armor in this Chapter than ever before. It's gonna make some of my old HQ (especially Corbulo--how plain does he look compared to this new generic Sanguinary Priest?) characters look pretty unadorned and average. Still, fits the fluff, so I'm liking it.
Corbulo and Dante's old models really ARE troublesome, too. I hate the Dante one, especially compared to the newer Sanguinor or Astorath models. He just looks so plain. And with a (now nerfed) Power Axe, cannot accompany Vanguard Veterans, and doesn't have Eternal Warrior despite being like 1000 years old. I am really hoping for an update to his rules.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Captain Karlean WS6 just over 150pts
Terminator Armour with Iron Halo, storm bolter, and Relic of Baal: melee, concussive, master crafted, specialist weapon and unwieldy.
Strategic Genius: +1 seize the initiative, and can re-roll any reserve roll
Children of Cryptus is 8 genestealers and the Spawn of Cryptus for a little over 200pts
Spawn of Cryptus is t5 with 3 wounds and has preferred enemy and has rending claws. He also comes with infiltrate, fleet, move through cover, and stealth just like the genestealers. Spawn of Cryptus is also a lvl 1 psyker who knows The Horror and Dominion powers.
I was waiting for someone on this site to start discussing these stats, if they're true and their opinions.
Its labeled Sanguinary Priest, but with that fancy sword, it seems intended to represent Corbulo.
adamsouza wrote: 2.) Codex Marines have access to the Hunter, Stalker, Thunderfire Cannon, Centurion Armor, Ironclad Dreadnaught, Venerable Dreadnaught, Storm Talon Gunship, Land Speeder Storm, Grav Guns, and most importantly Chapter Tactics.
Hunter and Stalker seem like they should be spread out to the other chapters, as a basic AA tank.
Thunderfire cannon is nice.
Centurion Armor, that several BA players in this thread have been hoping are added to the BA dex?
Ironclad Dreadnought? Furioso is rather equivalent- Ironclad has higher side armor, Furioso has 2 points better WS. the rest is wargear options, and the furioso can upgrade to be a librarian as well.
Venerable Dreadnought is not special at all. Space Wolves can upgrade to it and give their Ven dread a storm shield. Dark Angels have the Ven dread as well.
Storm Talon, sure. Dark Angels have their own version in the Dark Talon/Nephilim, though that is objectively weaker.
Land Speeder Storm- granted.
Grav Guns- BA just stole them.
Chapter Tactics- the SM variant books have them as well, just not named as such. BA have Descent of Angels and Red Thirst. DA have Grim Resolve and Inner Circle. Space Wolves have Acute Senses and Counterattack.
DarthOvious wrote: Well you did get the Stormraven from us. There will be things that we still don't get from C:SM. I.e. Thunderfire Cannons and I'm not expecting to get Centurions either. The Sky Talon is also still to be determined. You can't have a moan and get brand new stuff every codex and then tell us that we aren't allowed anything new at all.
I'd actually love to see the Stalker/Hunter kit be spread around. It's such a logical and generic vehicle for the marines, and fills a rather vital role (anti-air/anti-skimmer) that it should be in the armory of all the variant chapters. Instead, they leave it behind and pass out the far more unique grav guns.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Captain Karlean WS6 just over 150pts
Terminator Armour with Iron Halo, storm bolter, and Relic of Baal: melee, concussive, master crafted, specialist weapon and unwieldy.
Strategic Genius: +1 seize the initiative, and can re-roll any reserve roll
Children of Cryptus is 8 genestealers and the Spawn of Cryptus for a little over 200pts
Spawn of Cryptus is t5 with 3 wounds and has preferred enemy and has rending claws. He also comes with infiltrate, fleet, move through cover, and stealth just like the genestealers. Spawn of Cryptus is also a lvl 1 psyker who knows The Horror and Dominion powers.
I was waiting for someone on this site to start discussing these stats, if they're true and their opinions.
It's been discussed a dozen pages back.
My opinion is that he's a glorified tactical terminator (which suck) with a solid warlord trait and special rule, and almost certainly not worth the point overall unless some miracle happens that makes an all, or nearly all deepstrike army viable.
Spawn of Cryptus OTOH... It depends on if he is an HQ or not. That would be both good (a reasonably costed IC would be something we need) and bad (competing for limited slots with Flyrant). An IC in the army with access to Stealth could have some interesting ramifications - still thinking how to break it. If he just rolls with Genestealers, that Stealth and Preferred Enemy might be enough to make people consider them as options. Indeed, some people are taking a small brood of stealers in their lists for the tactical flexibility in maelstrom games and for the ability to nominate the broodlord as the warlord.
The Eavy Metal painters gave all the characters widdle pointy teefers.
pantheralegionnaire wrote: I have converted most of my Tactical marines with DC bits, but this new Tactical squad kit is still tempting. See the Sanguinary Guard torso on that Sergeant? Definitely more artisan-quality armor in this Chapter than ever before. It's gonna make some of my old HQ (especially Corbulo--how plain does he look compared to this new generic Sanguinary Priest?) characters look pretty unadorned and average. Still, fits the fluff, so I'm liking it.
very excited for all sergeants and other characters to have base-equipment artificer armor that re-rolls saves (3+).
heavy flamers in troops to remain BA only? I hope? really hope?
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Captain Karlean WS6 just over 150pts
Terminator Armour with Iron Halo, storm bolter, and Relic of Baal: melee, concussive, master crafted, specialist weapon and unwieldy.
Strategic Genius: +1 seize the initiative, and can re-roll any reserve roll
Children of Cryptus is 8 genestealers and the Spawn of Cryptus for a little over 200pts
Spawn of Cryptus is t5 with 3 wounds and has preferred enemy and has rending claws. He also comes with infiltrate, fleet, move through cover, and stealth just like the genestealers. Spawn of Cryptus is also a lvl 1 psyker who knows The Horror and Dominion powers.
I was waiting for someone on this site to start discussing these stats, if they're true and their opinions.
I think a lot will depend on what the formation brings, it might have rules that tie all elements together and bring significant buffs to a combined arms detachment.
The captain on his own will struggle to take out the broodlord one on one, you'd need to get the DC with thunder hammer in first, get him down to I1 and let the captain join the fray from there to even understand I suspect.
pantheralegionnaire wrote: Yes, but the Nurgle Lord in Fantasy is by far the most used model in conversions by Blanche, Migsula on this Dakka site, etc. and it's a plastic single-frame. So I am sure it will be done. The robes even invite DA players to convert it, and I definitely could see the Mephiston opportunities.
Look who you're talking about. Dakka's own Migs? Blanche FFS? These are major conversions, not kit-bashes. There's a difference between getting a Space Wolf box a Blood Angel Box and a regular Marine box and throwing them into a pile to see what you can make and doing careful conversions on single-pose minis.
LutherMax wrote: The priest kit / blister is perfect for kitbash / conversion. I'm pretty sure that was the intention.
Not really. The single-frame plastic characters generally go together in a very specific way with little room for variation. They occasionally have options, or are put together in a way that allows some changes (like a different shoulder pad), but otherwise they require a lot of chopping and changing to make them into something else. They aren't just regular Marines that can be combined with the standard kit.
Pretty much this. The only options the SM blisters have had is helmet or bare head on the Captain or Chaplain. At best, that is what we will get with the Sanguinary Priest, helmets head or bare head. The poses are almost always static though. If it doesn't have a helmeted head, I will have to take one from the new tactical box.
It's nothing a sharp X-Acto blade and the bits box of any self respecting space marine player can't handle.
DarthOvious wrote: Like I said before, fluff changes in a lot of universes. I've seen it in Star Wars, Batman and plenty of others. When you are saying here is not the equivalent of giving the The Penguin a new back story, but getting rid of The Penguin altogether and pretending like he didn't happen. They are completely different things.
I guffawed when I first heard the Death Company Terminator rumours, but the more I read the precedents and justifications the more I thought, "hmm, it's a stretch but maybe not a stretch so far...".
Your argument against it if I understand correctly is that they wouldn't risk valuable terminator armour on Black Enraged marines. But aren't you forgetting that these marines are still honoured and revered members of the chapter, and in some cases heroes and veterans of thousands of battles. What if a 1st company veteran succumbed and was given the honour he deserved by having his own personal suit of TDA painted black for his final battle? Then there is the practical precedent set out in the World Eater fluff where the suits can be remotely disabled, located and retrieved.
Do you really think a Death Company marine in TDA is comparable to the Penguin disappearing completely and it being pretended that he never existed? I think you're tipping the balance of the scales a bit there.
There's no way the Sang Priest is worth 18 quid, when 7 or 8 quid more will get you 9 more men who look a lot better. The only good thing about him is the awesome chain-rapier thing he has.
Does anyone else think the codex cover looks off? The head does not look positioned right.
I feel like I'm a bit slow, because I only just clocked the blood angel with a grav gun in the second squad picture. That's huge, bodes fairly well for the codex that they've included those.
It's huge to me, I want them for my tactical squads. I know, I know, "Nobody anywhere ever has any reason whatsoever to have Blood Angel tactical squads, anywhere, no reason ever"
Bull0 wrote: It's huge to me, I want them for my tactical squads. I know, I know, "Nobody anywhere ever has any reason whatsoever to have Blood Angel tactical squads, anywhere, no reason ever"
Eh, I can see 5man heavy flamer/combi-flamer drops being not bad for a msu unit. Grav guns on tacs... Eh. If you move, it's 2 shots at 12". Only reason it's good on bikes is because it gets 3 shots at 18", and cents for obvious reasons.
No offence to you BA players, but I certainly hope you guys don't get centurions. You guys already got our guns, you don't need our brand new infantry unit too!
That, and since Space Wolves got their own space wolf version of grav, and no cents, I don't think BA will get cents. (And we'd have probably have seen red centurions in the background of some pictures on top of that, to show off new models BA players get to buy).
(That, and it's a reason to ally in Tigurius. Sure, Mephiston lifts, but Tigurius is better at lifting with his brain!)
DarthOvious wrote: Well you did get the Stormraven from us. There will be things that we still don't get from C:SM. I.e. Thunderfire Cannons and I'm not expecting to get Centurions either. The Sky Talon is also still to be determined. You can't have a moan and get brand new stuff every codex and then tell us that we aren't allowed anything new at all.
I'd actually love to see the Stalker/Hunter kit be spread around. It's such a logical and generic vehicle for the marines, and fills a rather vital role (anti-air/anti-skimmer) that it should be in the armory of all the variant chapters. Instead, they leave it behind and pass out the far more unique grav guns.
That's true, we do need some kind of anti-air support. I think other players are thinking the Sky Talon could be on the list of things for us to get.
I also apologise since it appears I misread your intentions in what you said. In terms of the heavy flamer in our tactical sqauds, I think it fits because it's an assault weapon that we can fit into the heavy slot. It means our tactical squads can fire it and then still be able to charge afterwards, which is important for us. I can understand that this kind of set-up would suit Salamanders as well, but these things need to be introduced somewhere at some point and I don't doubt that Salamanders should be able to get it the next time the SM codex gets updated. I just think its a bit pointless to complain why we would get such a thing since it's a been a long time in development between the codices.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Captain Karlean WS6 just over 150pts
Terminator Armour with Iron Halo, storm bolter, and Relic of Baal: melee, concussive, master crafted, specialist weapon and unwieldy.
Strategic Genius: +1 seize the initiative, and can re-roll any reserve roll
Children of Cryptus is 8 genestealers and the Spawn of Cryptus for a little over 200pts
Spawn of Cryptus is t5 with 3 wounds and has preferred enemy and has rending claws. He also comes with infiltrate, fleet, move through cover, and stealth just like the genestealers. Spawn of Cryptus is also a lvl 1 psyker who knows The Horror and Dominion powers.
I was waiting for someone on this site to start discussing these stats, if they're true and their opinions.
It's been discussed a dozen pages back.
My opinion is that he's a glorified tactical terminator (which suck) with a solid warlord trait and special rule, and almost certainly not worth the point overall unless some miracle happens that makes an all, or nearly all deepstrike army viable.
Starting from which page number? I tried to find it but couldn't
This may have been mentioned already, but I received an email from GW last night/this morning that the Deathstorm box set is back in stock while supplies last (U.S.).
Bull0 wrote: It's huge to me, I want them for my tactical squads. I know, I know, "Nobody anywhere ever has any reason whatsoever to have Blood Angel tactical squads, anywhere, no reason ever"
Eh, I can see 5man heavy flamer/combi-flamer drops being not bad for a msu unit. Grav guns on tacs... Eh. If you move, it's 2 shots at 12". Only reason it's good on bikes is because it gets 3 shots at 18", and cents for obvious reasons.
No offence to you BA players, but I certainly hope you guys don't get centurions. You guys already got our guns, you don't need our brand new infantry unit too!
That, and since Space Wolves got their own space wolf version of grav, and no cents, I don't think BA will get cents. (And we'd have probably have seen red centurions in the background of some pictures on top of that, to show off new models BA players get to buy).
(That, and it's a reason to ally in Tigurius. Sure, Mephiston lifts, but Tigurius is better at lifting with his brain!)
But could Tigurus buff mephiston though, super mephiston.
DarthOvious wrote: Like I said before, fluff changes in a lot of universes. I've seen it in Star Wars, Batman and plenty of others. When you are saying here is not the equivalent of giving the The Penguin a new back story, but getting rid of The Penguin altogether and pretending like he didn't happen. They are completely different things.
I guffawed when I first heard the Death Company Terminator rumours, but the more I read the precedents and justifications the more I thought, "hmm, it's a stretch but maybe not a stretch so far...".
Your argument against it if I understand correctly is that they wouldn't risk valuable terminator armour on Black Enraged marines. But aren't you forgetting that these marines are still honoured and revered members of the chapter, and in some cases heroes and veterans of thousands of battles. What if a 1st company veteran succumbed and was given the honour he deserved by having his own personal suit of TDA painted black for his final battle? Then there is the practical precedent set out in the World Eater fluff where the suits can be remotely disabled, located and retrieved.
Sort of. My argument is that we play a narrative game. So whatever you can justify using some sort of narrative for yourself in order to field those units is all that's needed.
I made the suggestion of saying they fell into the black rage just as the battle was starting and paint them red since they there wasn't time to paint their armour black. Just let your opponent know and all is good since there is no restriction on how you paint your own models.
I also suggested that the books also give us examples where whole squads can fall to the black rage, although I did admit that they were always chaos manipulated, but you could come up with a narrative to explain how the whole unit fell to the black rage. Perhaps an artefact in the hands of your opponent. You can also make it into an objective game in order to retrieve the artefact.
Another idea I have is that some successor chapters consider the black rage to be their salvation. So perhaps it's not too much to theorize that they would be more likely to put their Death Company in terminator armour since they consider it a bonus rather than curse.
Personally, I just like the idea of Terminator Death Company. I think to explain it fluff wise I will the latter above and explain that my chapter thinks of the black rage as a blessing rather than a curse.
Do you really think a Death Company marine in TDA is comparable to the Penguin disappearing completely and it being pretended that he never existed? I think you're tipping the balance of the scales a bit there.
My response was mainly in relation to the suggestion that Blood Angels being rolled into the SM codex is comparable to rewriting some of the Blood Angels fluff. I think it was my mistake since now that I have re-read what I wrote it wasn't too clear what I was saying. I was just pointing out that there is a difference to rewriting some history of a story and then deleting that story altogether. Hence the reference to the Penguin in Batman. Giving him a new backstory is not the same thing as deleting him altogether and then saying to the fans that he didn't exist in the first place.
So in relation, re-writing a small bit of Blood Angels fluff is not as big of an issue as putting Blood Angels into the SM Codex and then pretending that there just like the rest of the chapters. Fans have a bigger reason to be unhappy about the latter than the former, although I do understand that some people are not going to necessarily like the former from happening, especially if it's not to their personal taste.
In short, some people are going to love the idea of Death Company terminators and some people won't. The people who don't like the idea could probably find ways around it. Either they can just not put them into their army list or come up with a different backstory for them. Perhaps they are just really zealous Blood Angels affected more by the Red Thirst rather than falling into the Black Rage.
I do like the idea of Heavy Flamers in Tactical Squads, they could be amazing dropping in a pod with a flamer, combi and HF. Alternatively, you could swap out the flamer for a Pyromancy Librarian with the primaris power for double S5 AP4 templates...
DC Termies might be cool, but with Space Hulk I have enough TDA for my BA. I just hope Sang Priests keep the Termie option, or half my conversions are useless.
I think this release, including the Codex, just shows how much Chaos needs God-specific Codex's & models.
At the mo, for example, you have Khorne Bezerkers + Kharn with a couple of universal special rules and a couple of Khorne-specific items for your Lord (oh & 1 warlord choice). & these are meant to be the most blood-thirsty warriors in the galaxy. These 'vampires' have so much love (BTW I am starting a BA army now).
SM now have: general SM's with special characters (like the CSM book but much bigger), Space Wolves, Blood Angels & Dark Angels. I call 'no fair' & will go & sulk in the corner.
Of the things C:SM have that I hope Blood Angels get are the following:
Stormtalon Gunship(for AA fire and because C:SM stole the Stormraven)
Hunter and Stalker(with Lucifer Pattern engines to boot!)
Devastator and Assault Centurions(No real reason why they shouldn't have them)
Some way to make either Assault Squads or Bike Squads troops (Assault has already happened but might be in limbo and Bike seems easy enough)
casvalremdeikun wrote: Of the things C:SM have that I hope Blood Angels get are the following:
Stormtalon Gunship(for AA fire and because C:SM stole the Stormraven)
Hunter and Stalker(with Lucifer Pattern engines to boot!)
Devastator and Assault Centurions(No real reason why they shouldn't have them)
Some way to make either Assault Squads or Bike Squads troops (Assault has already happened but might be in limbo and Bike seems easy enough)
So basically everything except the relics and the TFC.....
I'm cool with the Talon, all SM armies have 2 flyers and it's the easy one to add to BA. No need for cents, doesn't fit their style of warfare. Hunter/Stalker should happen.
So in relation, re-writing a small bit of Blood Angels fluff is not as big of an issue as putting Blood Angels into the SM Codex and then pretending that there just like the rest of the chapters
All space marine Chapters are unique, and many are as much or even more divergent than Blood Angels - the only reason I can see to keep them as a separate Codex now is because of the investment people have made over the years - I can see no other justification when you look at other Chapters who don't get the special treatment - including other First Founding Chapters. Then you look at the other armies being ignored in favour of this.....................
I found the recent attempts to make the "special" Chapters themed very off putting when the theme is so badly (in most cases - Santa Logan for instance, bloody blood guns firing blood missiles etc) implemented.
I am hoping that book 2 of Shield Of Baal has some good formations, characters etc for Blood angels - but some Guard and Sororitas would be more welcome........
DarthOvious wrote: Like I said before, fluff changes in a lot of universes. I've seen it in Star Wars, Batman and plenty of others. When you are saying here is not the equivalent of giving the The Penguin a new back story, but getting rid of The Penguin altogether and pretending like he didn't happen. They are completely different things.
I guffawed when I first heard the Death Company Terminator rumours, but the more I read the precedents and justifications the more I thought, "hmm, it's a stretch but maybe not a stretch so far...".
Your argument against it if I understand correctly is that they wouldn't risk valuable terminator armour on Black Enraged marines. But aren't you forgetting that these marines are still honoured and revered members of the chapter, and in some cases heroes and veterans of thousands of battles. What if a 1st company veteran succumbed and was given the honour he deserved by having his own personal suit of TDA painted black for his final battle? Then there is the practical precedent set out in the World Eater fluff where the suits can be remotely disabled, located and retrieved.
Do you really think a Death Company marine in TDA is comparable to the Penguin disappearing completely and it being pretended that he never existed? I think you're tipping the balance of the scales a bit there.
I think he was implying that it was the examples me and other "I don't like retcons" people were putting forward that were drastic, while the DC termies are not.
And you know, he's probably right. I suppose my experience is just rather coloured by what happened to the Iron Hands; you might think these wee fluff changes are minor now, hell some of the changes might even be mistakes by authors who didn't properly check the existing source material, but always remember that if a future codex writer decides he likes that little change/mistake, you can find your favourite chapter's entire background reorganised around it in a retcon so substantial it fundamentally changes their character.
I don't know exactly what Yodhrin is referring to but from what I remember they used to (in the Fluff anyway) not have a great deal of Terminator armoured marines due to the loses inflicted during Isstvaan V so they issued them to individual Veteran Sergeants who continued to serve alongside their power armoured colleagues rather than concentrating them in the 1st Company.
I don't know exactly what Yodhrin is referring to but from what I remember they used to (in the Fluff anyway) not have a great deal of Terminator armoured marines due to the loses inflicted during Isstvaan V so they issued them to individual Veteran Sergeants who continued to serve alongside their power armoured colleagues rather than concentrating them in the 1st Company.
That concept may also be because the Iron Hands are organised around Clans rather than having a Veteran company based on merit. As such they wouldn't have a concentrated company of veterans, or rather, a clan, who can say they are superior. The Salamanders are similar but opposite in that each company comes from one of the 7 settlements of Nocturne, meaning that if you are born in the other 6 Companies you will never wear TDA. And the Sallies were badly damaged after Isstvan, so much so that Vulkan asked Guilliman to exclude them from splitting because numbers were that bad. Both are friends of the Mechanicus. Likely they have an equal supply of stuff and armour. I think its based more on ideological differences for the Iron Hands, where they believe in staying with your clan and all.
LutherMax wrote: The priest kit / blister is perfect for kitbash / conversion. I'm pretty sure that was the intention.
Not really. The single-frame plastic characters generally go together in a very specific way with little room for variation. They occasionally have options, or are put together in a way that allows some changes (like a different shoulder pad), but otherwise they require a lot of chopping and changing to make them into something else. They aren't just regular Marines that can be combined with the standard kit.
Dragongaze, on the other hand, was a kitbasher's dream. I guess it just depends.
Theduke07 wrote: Great more Chaos Players wanting Codex Marines + 1.
They have a legitimate reason to be irritated. Not only does the CSM codex suck unprecedented levels of donkeyballs, but compared to the loyalist marines and their spin-offs - CSM options are insulting.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I wonder if Sanguinary Priests will remain as Elites or if they will get unslotted like Techmarines.
Or both. Like if you take a High Priest HQ you get regular priests without slots. I don't play regular marines but IIRC doesn't the MOTF have a similar relationship with the techmarines?
casvalremdeikun wrote: I wonder if Sanguinary Priests will remain as Elites or if they will get unslotted like Techmarines.
Or both. Like if you take a High Priest HQ you get regular priests without slots. I don't play regular marines but IIRC doesn't the MOTF have a similar relationship with the techmarines?
pretty much. I could also see Chaplains behaving in much the same manner with Reclusiarchs.
So in relation, re-writing a small bit of Blood Angels fluff is not as big of an issue as putting Blood Angels into the SM Codex and then pretending that there just like the rest of the chapters
All space marine Chapters are unique, and many are as much or even more divergent than Blood Angels - the only reason I can see to keep them as a separate Codex now is because of the investment people have made over the years - I can see no other justification when you look at other Chapters who don't get the special treatment - including other First Founding Chapters. Then you look at the other armies being ignored in favour of this.....................
I'm all in favour of branching the other chapters out. It's my opinion that Forge World should be picking up on these kind of things like a Salamander codex or even a Choas: Khorne Codex for the Chaos marines.
I found the recent attempts to make the "special" Chapters themed very off putting when the theme is so badly (in most cases - Santa Logan for instance, bloody blood guns firing blood missiles etc) implemented.
Logan's bad fluff is very recent though. Space Wolf fluff before that was just fine.
I am hoping that book 2 of Shield Of Baal has some good formations, characters etc for Blood angels - but some Guard and Sororitas would be more welcome........
Hopefully Sisters player will get something good. I agree that they need to get an update and we needed this update as well.
sand.zzz wrote: They have a legitimate reason to be irritated. Not only does the CSM codex suck unprecedented levels of donkeyballs, but compared to the loyalist marines and their spin-offs - CSM options are insulting.
Is it a legitimate reason? Sure... but so is complaining that the night is dark if you stub your toe. Chaos simply has for almost all of its history as an independent codex been relatively lackluster. The only exception to that in almost 25 years was a maybe 2-3 year period where they had the most broken and unbalanced codex of 3rd edition. That was the time of the "hallowed" legion codex. In the end, you now have Forgeworld to satisfy your legion specific needs with enough flavor to satisfy dozens of southeast asian foodies and enough options to make a Vogen take notice. Combine that with daemon allies if you want to go the corrupted route and you have the best answer you're going to get for the foreseeable future. Complaining about something off topic that will likely never change in the Blood Angel thread accomplishes nothing.
sockwithaticket wrote: I suspect Yohdrin's referring to the fluff changes in 6th ed. C:SM and Clan Raukaan supplement.
I am indeed. They took a chapter with as much organisational uniqueness as the Space Wolves and a backstory hook at least as characterful and tragic as the Blood Angels, and turned them into a baseline Codex chapter of Spock Marines that disdain their own Primarch, and it largely seems to have happened because GW didn't want to do another distinct sub-codex and Ward mistakenly referred to the "Iron Hands Chapter Master" in the 5th Edition C:SM. So yeah, I'm not claiming Death Company Terminators is the ruination of the Blood Angels fluff, I'm just saying don't be too eager to see GW mess around with the fluff of your favourite chapter even on a small scale, because down the line it only takes one idiot writer to rework their entire background around that single change.
Why is it that any thread talking about Blood Angels inevitably includes conversations about how they shouldnt have a book of their own? One of the oldest chapters, who have been around since 2nd edition, have a divergent gene seed, their own technology, and a very hefty flaw TOTALLY dont need a book. So please take the "zomg BA are stoopid and dont need gak so update me kaos" somewhere else.
I know I'm a week away from real information but I'm so impatient!!!!!! I keep checking back even though I know it's going to be random mutterings (like this one) till probably next monday/tuesday
I don`t see the issue with chaos players moaning. I am a chaos player. Do I use the dex god no. It is awful. What do I use well I use the space marine books you may not get daemon engines but no major loss and you get chapter tactics that fit with legions, better oblits, better leaders etc. Job done.
Death company terminators honestly if they are there ok if not I still would like a new blood angel specific terminator kit no matter what they do
Hulksmash wrote: I know I'm a week away from real information but I'm so impatient!!!!!! I keep checking back even though I know it's going to be random mutterings (like this one) till probably next monday/tuesday
Same here, I'm stoked! Went ahead and got a Deathstorm, now for the tactical squads and Codex.
i went ahead and got a Chaos Codex during the wait, I would get into Chaos but the godawful figures! Chaos Terminators, and Spce Marines kill it for me. However the Chosen models in the Dark Vengeance set are amazingly detailed up! I was working on my set last night, it's a shame the rest of Chaos Space Marines don't look the same. That being said I'm just mentioning this because it's just another army that needs an updated.
His source is the same as the source for the "LOL Mephiston being dragged by giant bats" jokes new the beginning of this thread: an underdeveloped ability to make a joke, and an overdeveloped opinion of how funny one is.
Theduke07 wrote: Great more Chaos Players wanting Codex Marines + 1.
They have a legitimate reason to be irritated. Not only does the CSM codex suck unprecedented levels of donkeyballs, but compared to the loyalist marines and their spin-offs - CSM options are insulting.
Well serves them right for turning their back on the Imperium.
I have some questions for some of the more seasoned 40k players. I do not follow all releases but I am rather concerned about this release. In the leak for next month's releases only the tactical squad and sanginary priest squad are listed along with the codex. For example, this DC terminator thing is not listed for next week.
Compared to the latest releases in 6th and 7th ed. (with the exception of Grey Knights) that seems very much lacking.
Will there be subsequent releases?
Has GW been releasing kits after the codex comes out in 7th ed.?
sockwithaticket wrote: I suspect Yohdrin's referring to the fluff changes in 6th ed. C:SM and Clan Raukaan supplement.
I am indeed. They took a chapter with as much organisational uniqueness as the Space Wolves and a backstory hook at least as characterful and tragic as the Blood Angels, and turned them into a baseline Codex chapter of Spock Marines that disdain their own Primarch, and it largely seems to have happened because GW didn't want to do another distinct sub-codex and Ward mistakenly referred to the "Iron Hands Chapter Master" in the 5th Edition C:SM. So yeah, I'm not claiming Death Company Terminators is the ruination of the Blood Angels fluff, I'm just saying don't be too eager to see GW mess around with the fluff of your favourite chapter even on a small scale, because down the line it only takes one idiot writer to rework their entire background around that single change.
Excuse me I don't know much about Iron Hands so the answer to this question might be obvious but why in hell do the Iron Hands disdain their Primarch? What is the reason behind that one? Sounds weird to me since I always thought of Ferrus' death as being tragic.
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th3maninblak wrote: Why is it that any thread talking about Blood Angels inevitably includes conversations about how they shouldnt have a book of their own? One of the oldest chapters, who have been around since 2nd edition, have a divergent gene seed, their own technology, and a very hefty flaw TOTALLY dont need a book. So please take the "zomg BA are stoopid and dont need gak so update me kaos" somewhere else.
Is it like this the Space Wolf, Dark Angels and Grey Knights threads? When Black Templars were rolled back into Codex Space Marines there were a lot of unhappy people.
This edition is sort of a whole new world as far as release schedules go. The codex will tell us everything though, if it's not in there it's not coming out until a supplement comes out.
I think were in 3-4 week release windows at the moment.
breakingstick wrote: I have some questions for some of the more seasoned 40k players. I do not follow all releases but I am rather concerned about this release. In the leak for next month's releases only the tactical squad and sanginary priest squad are listed along with the codex. For example, this DC terminator thing is not listed for next week.
Compared to the latest releases in 6th and 7th ed. (with the exception of Grey Knights) that seems very much lacking.
Will there be subsequent releases?
Has GW been releasing kits after the codex comes out in 7th ed.?
The release schedule for every recent codex has included several waves spread across different weeks. While we can't expect additional models in the coming weeks in addition to the Tactical Squad and Sanguinary Priest, they have not been ruled out. If there are additional models coming, we will know soon enough. It is common for model releases to be spread across multiple weeks.
breakingstick wrote: I have some questions for some of the more seasoned 40k players. I do not follow all releases but I am rather concerned about this release. In the leak for next month's releases only the tactical squad and sanginary priest squad are listed along with the codex. For example, this DC terminator thing is not listed for next week.
Compared to the latest releases in 6th and 7th ed. (with the exception of Grey Knights) that seems very much lacking.
Will there be subsequent releases?
Has GW been releasing kits after the codex comes out in 7th ed.?
GW release things by the week now as opposed to the month. Its been like that for a while now. SO this weeks release is the deathstorm box. Next week is the codex, tac squad, cards, dice etc and then hopefully something else the next again
Excuse me I don't know much about Iron Hands so the answer to this question might be obvious but why in hell do the Iron Hands disdain their Primarch? What is the reason behind that one? Sounds weird to me since I always thought of Ferrus' death as being tragic.
Human emotion. Ferrus was very, very angry and he refused to retreat against what was clearly a no-win scenario because it was an ambush from the very start. His anger clouded his thoughts, the Iron Hands didn't retreat, they lost pretty much their entire fighting power and so the Iron Hands were unable to do almost nothing for the remainder of the Horus Heresy (much like the Salamanders), Ferrus lost his life, all because Ferrus was too pissed.
sockwithaticket wrote: I suspect Yohdrin's referring to the fluff changes in 6th ed. C:SM and Clan Raukaan supplement.
I am indeed. They took a chapter with as much organisational uniqueness as the Space Wolves and a backstory hook at least as characterful and tragic as the Blood Angels, and turned them into a baseline Codex chapter of Spock Marines that disdain their own Primarch, and it largely seems to have happened because GW didn't want to do another distinct sub-codex and Ward mistakenly referred to the "Iron Hands Chapter Master" in the 5th Edition C:SM. So yeah, I'm not claiming Death Company Terminators is the ruination of the Blood Angels fluff, I'm just saying don't be too eager to see GW mess around with the fluff of your favourite chapter even on a small scale, because down the line it only takes one idiot writer to rework their entire background around that single change.
Excuse me I don't know much about Iron Hands so the answer to this question might be obvious but why in hell do the Iron Hands disdain their Primarch? What is the reason behind that one? Sounds weird to me since I always thought of Ferrus' death as being tragic.
Originally the IH reacted to the death of Ferrus by becoming insular, suspicious, and hateful. They despised the Traitors, the Emperor's Children above all obviously. They blamed the Salamanders and Raven Guard for trying to escape the Dropsite Massacre since, in the IH's eyes, if they had supported Ferrus' push into the ranks of the Traitors, Horus and Fulgrim could have been killed potentially ending the Heresy right then and there, and also Ferrus would not have died. They even blamed themselves for not being strong enough to support Ferrus alone. They became obsessed with eradicating weakness, in themselves and in everyone else. They became hard and ruthlessly pragmatic.
In the new fluff, they blame their own Primarch for his death, seeing him as too rash, and so turned themselves into robo-Vulcans.
Maybe it's one of the xmas boxes where the present is the box itself. I was under the impression that the whole freebie black box thing was stopped years ago. The last one I remember was for the 5th edition GK release.
warboss wrote: Maybe it's one of the xmas boxes where the present is the box itself. I was under the impression that the whole freebie black box thing was stopped years ago. The last one I remember was for the 5th edition GK release.
DarthOvious wrote: Thanks to the replies about the Iron Hands question I had. Sound slike there was a big change in the fluff for that one.
The previous posters are both bang on, and this seems to be where their mantra of "The flesh is weak" originates. I'd only be reiterating what's already been said by going in to this, but damn, you must really hate your father figure to start replacing your own body parts with bionics just so you could become less like him!
Personally, I found the new IH fluff refreshing, even if it was a radical change. SM aren't mindless drones or starlets whose knees quiver at one mention of their Primarch. Yes, they are devoted to him, but perhaps not slavishly.
Going from "boo hoo, everyone is at fault and us the most" to "holy crap, the man who we saw as our father almost got ALL of us killed just because he was too angry which makes him a crap general, but we will not falter in our devotion to the Emperor" is a lot more mature.
LutherMax wrote: The priest kit / blister is perfect for kitbash / conversion. I'm pretty sure that was the intention.
A quick flick through the model galleries in the 6th/7th edition codexes very quickly reveals just how much consideration GW are currently giving to conversions...
Got the new WD. Only really new thing is that it confirmed that there is no new Assault Squad coming. However, the Tactical Squad box should have enough bits to customize an Assault Squad. I hope, at least. The weapons bits seem to be pretty good. All the basic guns, a hand flamer, grav pistol, and a combi bolted.
Just got to look at the next weeks white dwarf and was able to make out most of the page for sanguinary guard. The points costs listed earlier were accurate (165 for 5 dudes), and they came with the same wargear as before but had standard "sword encarmines" which could be traded for "axe encarmines" at no cost. Chapter banner took a 5 point discount, other points costs i couldnt make out, but the best is yet to come.
Firstly, the option was there to add up to 5 ADDITIONAL sanguinary guard, increasing the squad size to 10. Finally, they came with the fearless and furious charge special rule. Interestingly, the dreadnought on the opposite page (whos info was much less clear) ALSO had the furious charge special rule. I think all blood angels come standard with it now, which would be amazing.
LutherMax wrote: The priest kit / blister is perfect for kitbash / conversion. I'm pretty sure that was the intention.
A quick flick through the model galleries in the 6th/7th edition codexes very quickly reveals just how much consideration GW are currently giving to conversions...
Yeah, the most I seen in my DE book is a couple of swapped heads and a kit-bashed Archon.
th3maninblak wrote: Just got to look at the next weeks white dwarf and was able to make out most of the page for sanguinary guard. The points costs listed earlier were accurate (165 for 5 dudes), and they came with the same wargear as before but had standard "sword encarmines" which could be traded for "axe encarmines" at no cost. Chapter banner took a 5 point discount, other points costs i couldnt make out, but the best is yet to come.
Firstly, the option was there to add up to 5 ADDITIONAL sanguinary guard, increasing the squad size to 10. Finally, they came with the fearless and furious charge special rule. Interestingly, the dreadnought on the opposite page (whos info was much less clear) ALSO had the furious charge special rule. I think all blood angels come standard with it now, which would be amazing.
That, or it's specifically listed because almost no one else gets it.
Why not just make it an army wide rule if everyone were to get it?
Probably because its a USR instead of a unique chapter tactic thingy. Still really powerful. And why would they randomly give a regular dread furious charge? Im betting everyone has it.
th3maninblak wrote: Just got to look at the next weeks white dwarf and was able to make out most of the page for sanguinary guard. The points costs listed earlier were accurate (165 for 5 dudes), and they came with the same wargear as before but had standard "sword encarmines" which could be traded for "axe encarmines" at no cost. Chapter banner took a 5 point discount, other points costs i couldnt make out, but the best is yet to come.
Firstly, the option was there to add up to 5 ADDITIONAL sanguinary guard, increasing the squad size to 10. Finally, they came with the fearless and furious charge special rule. Interestingly, the dreadnought on the opposite page (whos info was much less clear) ALSO had the furious charge special rule. I think all blood angels come standard with it now, which would be amazing.
That, or it's specifically listed because almost no one else gets it.
Why not just make it an army wide rule if everyone were to get it?
Space Wolves all have Acute Senses and Counter-attack but it's listed flat instead of as an army wide rule. Seems to reason that all Blood Angels might have Furious Charge now. If it's true.
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: Army-wide furious charge without having to roll for Angry Marines would be too damn sweet.
So sweet that it would never happen, I wager.
Im telling you, if i was a betting man i would put $$$ on it being army wide. The dread that had it was a regular non furioso dread. Also blood talons are an upgrade, though i couldnt read points costs.
Still, a 33 point sanguinary guard with stock furious charge is a dream come true for me.
Space Wolves all have Acute Senses and Counter-attack but it's listed flat instead of as an army wide rule. Seems to reason that all Blood Angels might have Furious Charge now. If it's true.
While it is better than nothing or worst yet *random roll* I mean cinematic... furious charge got worse in 6/7th and counterattack got better in 7e. In any case, didn't every blood angel have it back in 3rd edition?
DarthOvious wrote: Thanks to the replies about the Iron Hands question I had. Sound slike there was a big change in the fluff for that one.
The previous posters are both bang on, and this seems to be where their mantra of "The flesh is weak" originates. I'd only be reiterating what's already been said by going in to this, but damn, you must really hate your father figure to start replacing your own body parts with bionics just so you could become less like him!
I recently read "The Damnation of Pythos" (a HH novel about the Iron Hands) and it explores all of these questions in some detail. Not subtly or movingly, but in detail.
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Carnage43 wrote: Probably....but that severely undercuts the buffs the sang priests provide. He's down to basically FnP bubble now, at best.
33 point sang guard are.....marginal, leaning towards poor IMO. 30 is as high as I would have expected.
No, I'm chuffed. Terminators are 40 points base, right, and Sanguinary Guard are also 2+ (I know they don't have Invul) and are immensely more mobile. If the Furious Charge rule is correct, that's much better too. So I'd be happy for sure. If the chapter banner has not changed, they could have +1 attack each at +1 strength, and with mastercrafted power weapons. That's pretty great on the charge.
DarthOvious wrote: Thanks to the replies about the Iron Hands question I had. Sound slike there was a big change in the fluff for that one.
The previous posters are both bang on, and this seems to be where their mantra of "The flesh is weak" originates. I'd only be reiterating what's already been said by going in to this, but damn, you must really hate your father figure to start replacing your own body parts with bionics just so you could become less like him!
I recently read "The Damnation of Pythos" (a HH novel about the Iron Hands) and it explores all of these questions in some detail. Not subtly or movingly, but in detail.
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Carnage43 wrote: Probably....but that severely undercuts the buffs the sang priests provide. He's down to basically FnP bubble now, at best.
33 point sang guard are.....marginal, leaning towards poor IMO. 30 is as high as I would have expected.
No, I'm chuffed. Terminators are 40 points base, right, and Sanguinary Guard are also 2+ (I know they don't have Invul) and are immensely more mobile. If the Furious Charge rule is correct, that's much better too. So I'd be happy for sure. If the chapter banner has not changed, they could have +1 attack each at +1 strength, and with mastercrafted power weapons. That's pretty great on the charge.
Agree, not a horrible point cost for something that is basically a very mobile Terminator with a possibility to stick a priest around them for FNP bubble. yea I'll take it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Furious Charge thing is ok, it of course makes just a ton of sense for them to have it. However since the rule it self isn't as great as it used to be its dang sure not game breaking.
Personally it would've been much more dangerous to give us Counter attack, sadly I had a lot of my opponents start to realize that if I got to close to them that it was in fact better for them to just go ahead and charge me before I got the chance to charge them. That way I would start to lose some of my special rules
Carnage43 wrote: Probably....but that severely undercuts the buffs the sang priests provide. He's down to basically FnP bubble now, at best.
33 point sang guard are.....marginal, leaning towards poor IMO. 30 is as high as I would have expected.
No, I'm chuffed. Terminators are 40 points base, right, and Sanguinary Guard are also 2+ (I know they don't have Invul) and are immensely more mobile. If the Furious Charge rule is correct, that's much better too. So I'd be happy for sure. If the chapter banner has not changed, they could have +1 attack each at +1 strength, and with mastercrafted power weapons. That's pretty great on the charge.
Space marine honor guard are 25 points base, and have the extra weapon bonus, and are 8 points, or about a quarter cheaper.
Is the jump pack, furious charge (which is....not worth points since it's their chapter trait) and upgrading from a bolt pistol to a DOUBLE bolt pistol worth 8 point? Especially when it's been established that a jump pack upgrade is only worth ~3. Like I said, they are marginal, but melee units need to be really REALLY REALLY good to be even worth considering....and they are not triple REALLY good, maybe average.
Remember that the new GK/chaos/legion terminators are only worth 31-33 points these days and honor guard are 25....and while these guys line up reasonably well with both, no one is lining up to take terminators or honor guard these days.
Maybe in some sort of saturation, all out must punch the enemy in the face with my whole list type of army they might reach some level of competitiveness, but I wouldn't count on it.
So the Sanguinary Guard have moved up to a priority to me. Probably going to get a couple boxes. I love the idea of a highly mobile "terminator" squad. Love their aesthetics too. Though I am not all that huge on them being fully gold. Might pain them red and have a lot of gold details with gold deathmasks. That way Dante will be the only fully blinged out marine. I dunno. I will have to see once I get a few. I am really excited to get started on a Blood Angels army. This birthday is going to be a red one!
EDIT: Forgot to mention this in my other post. The previews for next week mention "An Unexpected Ally". This is more than likely a reference to Necrons coming to bail out the Blood Angels. That or it is about the Bloodthirster teaming up with the Tyranids. My money is on Necrons teaming up with Blood Angels though.
EDIT: Forgot to mention this in my other post. The previews for next week mention "An Unexpected Ally". This is more than likely a reference to Necrons coming to bail out the Blood Angels. That or it is about the Bloodthirster teaming up with the Tyranids. My money is on Necrons teaming up with Blood Angels though.
Could be referring to the Sisters who survived the Tyranid attack on Lysios. Amusingly the only Imperials to have any sort of victory in Leviathan. Highly doubtful though.
EDIT: Forgot to mention this in my other post. The previews for next week mention "An Unexpected Ally". This is more than likely a reference to Necrons coming to bail out the Blood Angels. That or it is about the Bloodthirster teaming up with the Tyranids. My money is on Necrons teaming up with Blood Angels though.
Could be referring to the Sisters who survived the Tyranid attack on Lysios. Amusingly the only Imperials to have any sort of victory in Leviathan. Highly doubtful though.
mmmmmm I donooooo......... I mean we all know how much BA's and Necrons love a good tyranid fight so they can share that epic fist bump afterwords. Brothers in Curses after all.
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: Personally, I found the new IH fluff refreshing, even if it was a radical change. SM aren't mindless drones or starlets whose knees quiver at one mention of their Primarch. Yes, they are devoted to him, but perhaps not slavishly.
Going from "boo hoo, everyone is at fault and us the most" to "holy crap, the man who we saw as our father almost got ALL of us killed just because he was too angry which makes him a crap general, but we will not falter in our devotion to the Emperor" is a lot more mature.
Really? Sitting and watching as your Raven Guard supposed-allies get massacred after deliberately placing them in that situation is more "mature" than merely distrusting the Raven Guard/Sallies and refusing to fight with them unless the situation is dire? Deciding the best response to "we conclude Ferrus was a bit of a hot-head" is "we must carve out all our emotions! Spock Marines, hooooo!" is mature?
Name one other Legion-derived Chapter that holds their own Primarch in anything but the highest regard. I mean seriously, imagine how Blood Angels players would react if GW changed the background to say that the BA's think Sanguinius was a total numpty for facing Horus alone(which he was), or Ultramarine players if they were changed to believe Guilliman was a vainglorious git for embarking on his whole "Imperium Secundus" project when he should have been preparing to make a beeline for Terra at the first possible opportunity(which he should).
The whole underpinning of the tragic nature of the IH story was that despite their outwardly reserved nature they were loyal to a fault; they to their Primarch, he to his brothers, and that Fulgrim's betrayal of Ferrus and Ferrus' death twisted them beyond recognition. They couldn't accept that their Primarch, perhaps the greatest strategic mind of the Great Crusade after the Emperor, had made a mistake(if indeed he did, I'm not convinced their interpretation of Istvaan was wrong), and so their own most positive aspect drove them to become monsters.
Out of interest, did you play IH before the retcon? I'm not setting you up for a No True Scotsman, I'm just interested since I've met very, very few long-time IH fans who liked the changes.
th3maninblak wrote: Just got to look at the next weeks white dwarf and was able to make out most of the page for sanguinary guard. The points costs listed earlier were accurate (165 for 5 dudes), and they came with the same wargear as before but had standard "sword encarmines" which could be traded for "axe encarmines" at no cost. Chapter banner took a 5 point discount, other points costs i couldnt make out, but the best is yet to come.
Firstly, the option was there to add up to 5 ADDITIONAL sanguinary guard, increasing the squad size to 10. Finally, they came with the fearless and furious charge special rule. Interestingly, the dreadnought on the opposite page (whos info was much less clear) ALSO had the furious charge special rule. I think all blood angels come standard with it now, which would be amazing.
Hmm, that seems to reopen the possibility the Sanguinary Guard box will go up to 10 models at a higher price, on top of it perhaps just being to add the new bases. If Blood Angels do come standard with Furious Charge on everything, I suspect we'll also be seeing a resurgence in World Eaters using the 'dex.
They probably took the Sanguinary Guard and Death Company off the store so they could repackage them with the new bases. BOLS (yeah, I know...) has something up in their rumors about the boxes staying the same price. They will probably show back up at the same time the Codex does.
So if honor guard are worth 25, and you would say jet packs are 3, then that still leaves a 5 point difference between them and SG. Its not a double bolt pistol, its an ap4 12in range storm bolter, which is another 2 points (30). The master crafted power weapon vs pistol and power weapon breaks even.
So then its fearless+furious charge vs ATSKNF and chapter tactics. I think SG win out.
Have we seen any straight character re-sculpts this edition?
Ones that didn't change the character in some way (Grimnar) and just gave us an updated version of the model?
The only SC that has gotten a new model since 7th edition has been released, I believe, is Grimnar. I was just thinking about because there were rumors on nafta and BOLS saying a character resculpt with Dante being the possibility.
plastictrees wrote: Have we seen any straight character re-sculpts this edition?
I'm not sure how to take that. We are talking about an army of the most handsome marines who wear shirtless nipple muscle armor.
By the way, there is an image in WD #44 that comes from the codex that shows artwork of the Sanguinary Priest wearing a helmet. It also has a character name attached to it, but I don't have my copy on hand so I can't recall what his name was. So not only is Mr. Shirtless Nipple Muscle Armor shirtless and wearing nipple muscle armor, he has an actual name.
th3maninblak wrote: So if honor guard are worth 25, and you would say jet packs are 3, then that still leaves a 5 point difference between them and SG. Its not a double bolt pistol, its an ap4 12in range storm bolter, which is another 2 points (30). The master crafted power weapon vs pistol and power weapon breaks even.
So then its fearless+furious charge vs ATSKNF and chapter tactics. I think SG win out.
I agree with this, @Carnage, though I hear what you're saying. I also have an Honor Squad that I use a lot, and I definitely like the FNP benefits from the Initiate which, along with a combat shield, has kept me in some fights. However, they get more expensive when you give them extra weapons (which I do). To me they are both fluffy...which I also like, but I don't know how competitive they really are, to be honest--either of them. If you trick them out, they end up only being 5 models, too, and that's just not that hard to weather unless you can get a double-charge in and get some more models into contact. At least this Sanguinary Guard look like they can be bulked up to more than 5 models now.
I also feel like the Sanguinary Guard are some of the most visually appealing models in the BA range, and that's part of the hobby (if not the game) too, right? Seeing your army there in front of you, looking cool. (Then usually dying). In terms of PPM though, BA have definitely been at a disadvantage, so I am really hoping to see some more points decreases, especially for Jump Pack Assault marines. And maybe getting access to some of the Chapter-specific special weapons for a price that makes it worth doing.
I would expect that assault marines are gonna drop to 17 pointsper model from 18, to match the SM book. That, and the non-mandatory upgrade for the vet sgt. I would prefer 16 points a dude, but that wont happen.
th3maninblak wrote: I would expect that assault marines are gonna drop to 17 pointsper model from 18, to match the SM book. That, and the non-mandatory upgrade for the vet sgt. I would prefer 16 points a dude, but that wont happen.
There is really no reason for them to be different from the C:SM Assault Squads. Sure, they have access to some of the BA toys like Inferno Pistols (I shall be giving my Sergeant TWO Inferno Pistols to make him a tank busting cowboy that still gets an additional attack for wielding two CCW), but otherwise they are basically the same thing.
The value of a jump pack depends on the unit. Saying it's always worth 3 points a model means it's worth 3 points a model for both a gargoyle and a wraith knight. It's worth more on a 2+ model with a power weapon than it is on an assault marine.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 33 sounds about right for sanguine guard
I am more curious what the cost of death company will be. My hope and guess is 18 per model, 5 to 8 for a jump pack, and 15 for a power weapon.
SangGuard dropping in points AND getting a higher squad capacity is awesome, I now need another box!
Army wide FC would be nice, very nice... I also have a feeling Priests will drop in points or grant another bonus instead, maybe Counter-Attack or Rage?
Somehow I see people bitching about Blood Angels being OP in the near future. This is despite the fact that they will probably be mid-tier at best when all of this is all said and done.
But yes, two boxes of Sanguinary Guard made their way onto my wishlist.
Not sure where I read it, but the DC and SG boxes got pulled because they're getting the current 'black box' treatment that the rest of the SM stuff got, apologies if someone already mentioned this.
Has anyone seen anything from Deathstorm yet? Blood Angels portion of the campaign wise?
Space Wolves all have Acute Senses and Counter-attack but it's listed flat instead of as an army wide rule. Seems to reason that all Blood Angels might have Furious Charge now. If it's true.
While it is better than nothing or worst yet *random roll* I mean cinematic... furious charge got worse in 6/7th and counterattack got better in 7e. In any case, didn't every blood angel have it back in 3rd edition?
Yes we did, and that's also when you got the init bonus as well as the strength bonus.
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casvalremdeikun wrote: So the Sanguinary Guard have moved up to a priority to me. Probably going to get a couple boxes. I love the idea of a highly mobile "terminator" squad. Love their aesthetics too. Though I am not all that huge on them being fully gold. Might pain them red and have a lot of gold details with gold deathmasks. That way Dante will be the only fully blinged out marine. I dunno. I will have to see once I get a few. I am really excited to get started on a Blood Angels army. This birthday is going to be a red one!
EDIT: Forgot to mention this in my other post. The previews for next week mention "An Unexpected Ally". This is more than likely a reference to Necrons coming to bail out the Blood Angels. That or it is about the Bloodthirster teaming up with the Tyranids. My money is on Necrons teaming up with Blood Angels though.
So basically that picture floating around the internet with a Blood Angel and Necron bro-fisting could actually be true. After saying to people in this very thread about creating a narrative for fluff they don't like this one might just be a step too much for me.
Still not seeing anything that makes Sang Guard worthwhile so far. Points drop is nice, but the weapons appear to still be lacklustre (unless Glaive Encarmines get radically changed), they still don't have an inv. save and have a low number of attacks
They're an elite assault unit that'll fold to other elite assault units like Thunderwolf Cav, TH/SS Terminators, Assault Centurions...
Maybe with a squad size of 10 there might be some synergy with a buffing character or psychic power
Well, I suppose it didn't mention them getting out of the system, so I guess I should say they've survived so far...
Well they've all been Ripley'd (genestealers in their bellies), and their ship will land on a Penal colony, so we will see Adeptus Arbites figures in plastic versus an new all plastic Genestealer army.....but no plastic sisters
DarthOvious wrote: So basically that picture floating around the internet with a Blood Angel and Necron bro-fisting could actually be true. After saying to people in this very thread about creating a narrative for fluff they don't like this one might just be a step too much for me.
Pretty much. I am prepared to see this place implode if that happens. Honestly, there are WORSE things that could happen in the fluff. And Necrons definitely hate the Tyranids more than they do the Blood Angels, so this is probably a case of "the enemy of my enemy" more than brofisting.
DarthOvious wrote: So basically that picture floating around the internet with a Blood Angel and Necron bro-fisting could actually be true. After saying to people in this very thread about creating a narrative for fluff they don't like this one might just be a step too much for me.
Pretty much. I am prepared to see this place implode if that happens. Honestly, there are WORSE things that could happen in the fluff. And Necrons definitely hate the Tyranids more than they do the Blood Angels, so this is probably a case of "the enemy of my enemy" more than brofisting.
Oh, if that happens it shall be glorious. I would LOVE to see such a thing happening.
Now in all honesty, I actually would enjoy if that particular bit of fluff was explored a bit deeper. The "New Necron" Lords all have their personalities (I think people are still too hung up on the "Old Necrons" fluff. Which, IMHO, SUCKS), each and every one of them sees battle honour and respect for his enemy (or lack of) differently, why the heck the BA didn't turn on them instantly, I dunno, but whatever, I'd like to see it a bit more fleshed out.
Hell, I'd love a reason for this comic to happen on the tabletop xD
Bartali wrote: Still not seeing anything that makes Sang Guard worthwhile so far. Points drop is nice, but the weapons appear to still be lacklustre (unless Glaive Encarmines get radically changed), they still don't have an inv. save and have a low number of attacks
They're an elite assault unit that'll fold to other elite assault units like Thunderwolf Cav, TH/SS Terminators, Assault Centurions...
Maybe with a squad size of 10 there might be some synergy with a buffing character or psychic power
They also have mobility over Termies/Cents/Lychguard/Mutilators/MANz/Carnifexes/most units that pose a serious threat to them. There are two types of 'elite assault units', the ones that do huge damage in a single hit but only excel against expensive stuff (the likes of Termies/MANz that don't care you paid for an Armour Save) and the ones that go in against key but weaker units, stack up wounds and run them down. SangGuard are very much in the latter category, throwing them up against units with 2+ saves and AP2 is a waste if everything they offer and not a fight they should ever be in.
DarthOvious wrote: So basically that picture floating around the internet with a Blood Angel and Necron bro-fisting could actually be true. After saying to people in this very thread about creating a narrative for fluff they don't like this one might just be a step too much for me.
Pretty much. I am prepared to see this place implode if that happens. Honestly, there are WORSE things that could happen in the fluff. And Necrons definitely hate the Tyranids more than they do the Blood Angels, so this is probably a case of "the enemy of my enemy" more than brofisting.
Oh, if that happens it shall be glorious. I would LOVE to see such a thing happening.
Now in all honesty, I actually would enjoy if that particular bit of fluff was explored a bit deeper. The "New Necron" Lords all have their personalities (I think people are still too hung up on the "Old Necrons" fluff. Which, IMHO, SUCKS), each and every one of them sees battle honour and respect for his enemy (or lack of) differently, why the heck the BA didn't turn on them instantly, I dunno, but whatever, I'd like to see it a bit more fleshed out.
Hell, I'd love a reason for this comic to happen on the tabletop xD
Spoiler:
Im a fan of the new necron fluff too and wouldn't mind this fluff explore more, as i did just decide to start a necron army recently this would be a nice read for me
Bartali wrote: Still not seeing anything that makes Sang Guard worthwhile so far. Points drop is nice, but the weapons appear to still be lacklustre (unless Glaive Encarmines get radically changed), they still don't have an inv. save and have a low number of attacks
They're an elite assault unit that'll fold to other elite assault units like Thunderwolf Cav, TH/SS Terminators, Assault Centurions...
Maybe with a squad size of 10 there might be some synergy with a buffing character or psychic power
They also have mobility over Termies/Cents/Lychguard/Mutilators/MANz/Carnifexes/most units that pose a serious threat to them. There are two types of 'elite assault units', the ones that do huge damage in a single hit but only excel against expensive stuff (the likes of Termies/MANz that don't care you paid for an Armour Save) and the ones that go in against key but weaker units, stack up wounds and run them down. SangGuard are very much in the latter category, throwing them up against units with 2+ saves and AP2 is a waste if everything they offer and not a fight they should ever be in.
Mobility only really matters if you do something when you get there. No point being faster than TH/SS Terminators if you're going to bounce of them when you get there.
Proper assault units like Thunderwolf Cav have mobility and threat in spades.
Yeah, one is a heavy assault unit that can get tied up by blobs and dragged down by them, the other is the elite assault unit that can tear through the blobs but would fold to the heavy assault unit. Rock, paper scissors.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Yeah, one is a heavy assault unit that can get tied up by blobs and dragged down by them, the other is the elite assault unit that can tear through the blobs but would fold to the heavy assault unit. Rock, paper scissors.
Yeah, exactly. When you can move twice as fast as your hard counter, there's not really any reason you should ever be in combat with TH/SS Termies using SangGuard. TH/SS is basically built to blunt elite assaults and wreck tanks, while SG are Assassin units and bullies. Swap their roles and each would be useless, but play to their strengths and they are great.
sauhwq wrote: I think this release, including the Codex, just shows how much Chaos needs God-specific Codex's & models.
So in this hypothetical, the big book would be Chaos Undivided, then it would be the World Eaters and Khorne, Emperor's Children and Slaanesh, Thousand Sons and Tzeentch, and Death Guard and Nurgle? I could get on board with that.
Well, I suppose it didn't mention them getting out of the system, so I guess I should say they've survived so far...
Well they've all been Ripley'd (genestealers in their bellies), and their ship will land on a Penal colony, so we will see Adeptus Arbites figures in plastic versus an new all plastic Genestealer army.....but no plastic sisters
I would still be thrilled and would buy the heck out of that
DarthOvious wrote: So basically that picture floating around the internet with a Blood Angel and Necron bro-fisting could actually be true. After saying to people in this very thread about creating a narrative for fluff they don't like this one might just be a step too much for me.
Pretty much. I am prepared to see this place implode if that happens. Honestly, there are WORSE things that could happen in the fluff. And Necrons definitely hate the Tyranids more than they do the Blood Angels, so this is probably a case of "the enemy of my enemy" more than brofisting.
Oh my god... I'm almost certain this is going to happen now. In Stormclaw, the GK came along near the end to ally the Guard and Wolves, although it was mainly to act as an excuse to put out a new GK dex. With BA being updated, the last Codex to need an update is the Necrons, and rumours are putting them up pretty imminently. Thus, I'd be willing to bet that the next or last Baal book will feature Necrons to bring about their new Codex.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Somehow, I see people bitching about Blood Angels being OP in the near future.
Some people hate change.
Some people hate any improvements to any army they don't play.
Some peope like to bitch about things they can't possibly know, or even reasonably predict.
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
I think the WD picture of the sang guard shows them also on the new bases. Can anyone guess if there is a 'can take up to...models for...points' hidden in this blurry mess?
Well there are a few things I can deduce from that. First, it is either not in English or Sanguinary Guard don't have ATSKNF. I'm not sure whether or not they have Fearless (did they in 5th?) or maybe Red Thirst covers it? IF you are confused, look at the bottom left hand corner of the image. The Special Rules and Wargear. Wargear must be on top, as the bottom section has only has 2 entries, far to short for Sanguinary Guard. The bottom entry's title is also two words.
The reason I say its not English is because of the top section, which I can assume is Wargear given that Special Rules are below. There are 3 particularly long entries, although unreadable. Likelihood is that 2 of these are Frag and Krak grenades while another is the Glave Encarmine. There are also 6 entries in total, which is how many SG have (Grenades, Grenades, Glave, Bolter, Armour, Jump Pack). However, all the words there are too long to be something like Jump Pack which are short words.
The other thing we can say is that the Dreadnought will be a separate unit to Furiosos, Librarians and Death Company Dreadnoughts. Only 1 stat profile is listed on that page. If the Dreadnought could upgrade, it would have multiple stats listed as per the SW and Grey Knight versions. I can see that it costs 100pts like the Vanilla version and the Chaos Helbrute (although that is another rip-off for Chaos who have to pay 5pts for a Stormbolter for identical loadout).
So that means our primaris is cc dedicated. Also one of our special tac objectives can only be achieved in cc. Please GW give us the right power to use this what do you guys think about the magna grapple change? Pretty drastic change from a shooting attack to give some bonus
Thud wrote: I don't understand why people find it so difficult to take pictures. I really don't.
Well the two theories are that either:
This is GW deliberately leaking info for hype, but have turned from showing the full thing including points in English to either non-English language or blurry, the former because GW obviously thinks that the rest of Europe, South America and Asia are not their demographic and they focus only on the Brits and Yanks who are too dumb to learn another language (which the English are renowned for) or too dumb period (a common British thing to think of Americans, and I wouldn't put it pst GW to think that way).
The other theory is this is some guy at the printers or in the production line taking a quick snap when no-one's look, and needs to be quick and dodgy about it because if he gets caught, not only is he liable to loss his job, get a bad reference for future jobs, but also has a highly probability of getting sued by GW. Plus, then there will be NO leaks whatsoever.
Wow, the magna grapple refers to a unit containing at least one model; with it. It's a dreadnaught weapon, so it's safe to predict dreadnaught vehicle squadrons!
Red Corsair wrote: Wow, the magna grapple refers to a unit containing at least one model; with it. It's a dreadnaught weapon, so it's safe to predict dreadnaught vehicle squadrons!
They are probably just future proofing a formation or 8
Thud wrote: I don't understand why people find it so difficult to take pictures. I really don't.
It's a picture from one of those thumbnail previews in the White Dwarf. They won't be sharp no matter what camera you use.
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Deadshot wrote: Well there are a few things I can deduce from that. First, it is either not in English or Sanguinary Guard don't have ATSKNF. I'm not sure whether or not they have Fearless (did they in 5th?) or maybe Red Thirst covers it? IF you are confused, look at the bottom left hand corner of the image. The Special Rules and Wargear. Wargear must be on top, as the bottom section has only has 2 entries, far to short for Sanguinary Guard. The bottom entry's title is also two words.
The reason I say its not English is because of the top section, which I can assume is Wargear given that Special Rules are below. There are 3 particularly long entries, although unreadable. Likelihood is that 2 of these are Frag and Krak grenades while another is the Glave Encarmine. There are also 6 entries in total, which is how many SG have (Grenades, Grenades, Glave, Bolter, Armour, Jump Pack). However, all the words there are too long to be something like Jump Pack which are short words.
The other thing we can say is that the Dreadnought will be a separate unit to Furiosos, Librarians and Death Company Dreadnoughts. Only 1 stat profile is listed on that page. If the Dreadnought could upgrade, it would have multiple stats listed as per the SW and Grey Knight versions. I can see that it costs 100pts like the Vanilla version and the Chaos Helbrute (although that is another rip-off for Chaos who have to pay 5pts for a Stormbolter for identical loadout).
It's most definitely English. The rules for the SG are Fearless and Furious Charge. The wargear just has page numbers behind them.
Thud wrote: I don't understand why people find it so difficult to take pictures. I really don't.
It's a picture from one of those thumbnail previews in the White Dwarf. They won't be sharp no matter what camera you use.
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Deadshot wrote: Well there are a few things I can deduce from that. First, it is either not in English or Sanguinary Guard don't have ATSKNF. I'm not sure whether or not they have Fearless (did they in 5th?) or maybe Red Thirst covers it? IF you are confused, look at the bottom left hand corner of the image. The Special Rules and Wargear. Wargear must be on top, as the bottom section has only has 2 entries, far to short for Sanguinary Guard. The bottom entry's title is also two words.
The reason I say its not English is because of the top section, which I can assume is Wargear given that Special Rules are below. There are 3 particularly long entries, although unreadable. Likelihood is that 2 of these are Frag and Krak grenades while another is the Glave Encarmine. There are also 6 entries in total, which is how many SG have (Grenades, Grenades, Glave, Bolter, Armour, Jump Pack). However, all the words there are too long to be something like Jump Pack which are short words.
The other thing we can say is that the Dreadnought will be a separate unit to Furiosos, Librarians and Death Company Dreadnoughts. Only 1 stat profile is listed on that page. If the Dreadnought could upgrade, it would have multiple stats listed as per the SW and Grey Knight versions. I can see that it costs 100pts like the Vanilla version and the Chaos Helbrute (although that is another rip-off for Chaos who have to pay 5pts for a Stormbolter for identical loadout).
It's most definitely English. The rules for the SG are Fearless and Furious Charge. The wargear just has page numbers behind them.
Thud wrote: I don't understand why people find it so difficult to take pictures. I really don't.
It's a picture from one of those thumbnail previews in the White Dwarf. They won't be sharp no matter what camera you use.
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Deadshot wrote: Well there are a few things I can deduce from that. First, it is either not in English or Sanguinary Guard don't have ATSKNF. I'm not sure whether or not they have Fearless (did they in 5th?) or maybe Red Thirst covers it? IF you are confused, look at the bottom left hand corner of the image. The Special Rules and Wargear. Wargear must be on top, as the bottom section has only has 2 entries, far to short for Sanguinary Guard. The bottom entry's title is also two words.
The reason I say its not English is because of the top section, which I can assume is Wargear given that Special Rules are below. There are 3 particularly long entries, although unreadable. Likelihood is that 2 of these are Frag and Krak grenades while another is the Glave Encarmine. There are also 6 entries in total, which is how many SG have (Grenades, Grenades, Glave, Bolter, Armour, Jump Pack). However, all the words there are too long to be something like Jump Pack which are short words.
The other thing we can say is that the Dreadnought will be a separate unit to Furiosos, Librarians and Death Company Dreadnoughts. Only 1 stat profile is listed on that page. If the Dreadnought could upgrade, it would have multiple stats listed as per the SW and Grey Knight versions. I can see that it costs 100pts like the Vanilla version and the Chaos Helbrute (although that is another rip-off for Chaos who have to pay 5pts for a Stormbolter for identical loadout).
It's most definitely English. The rules for the SG are Fearless and Furious Charge. The wargear just has page numbers behind them.
Ah, of course, that's what it is! I had forgotten GW now needs to make references to page numbers because of their crappy new layout. Thanks!
The small image of an army on WD #44 pg 14 has a librarian on it that I couldn't place at first. It looks like he has a pistol in one hand and a double bladed axe in the other. Is this the librarian from Space Hulk?
Red Corsair wrote: Wow, the magna grapple refers to a unit containing at least one model; with it. It's a dreadnaught weapon, so it's safe to predict dreadnaught vehicle squadrons!
They are probably just future proofing a formation or 8
Or they where not paying attention
Ether sounds likely.
Idont know, blood angles have the most dreadnaught variants I believe.
Libby
Furiouso
Death comspany
Standard
I can easily see libby/furiouso being in squadrons.
DarthOvious wrote: So basically that picture floating around the internet with a Blood Angel and Necron bro-fisting could actually be true. After saying to people in this very thread about creating a narrative for fluff they don't like this one might just be a step too much for me.
Pretty much. I am prepared to see this place implode if that happens. Honestly, there are WORSE things that could happen in the fluff. And Necrons definitely hate the Tyranids more than they do the Blood Angels, so this is probably a case of "the enemy of my enemy" more than brofisting.
The original fluff was fine when Blood Angels and Necrons put their differences aside to fight the Tyranids but I'm not sure why Necrons would come to their aid to the Blood Angels very own system. I'm going to have to put my fluff narravtive skills into hyper overdrive to come up with a story for that one.
As a slight curveball, it could be the Knights of Blood chapter. They are renegade and they did re-enter the Baal system to help in the defence against the daemons and kids.
I just don't know about that quickening power. It's like a nerfed warp speed, with the exception that it gives fleet, and in some situations you might benefit from tossing it on some other dude nearby. But the fleet part literally only helps if the Libby is alone, so Mephy or furioso libbies. And Mephy in the current codex has fleet already.
Disappointing choice for the Primaris, really. Would've preferred blood lance, sanguine sword, or wings of sanguinius instead.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: As a slight curveball, it could be the Knights of Blood chapter. They are renegade and they did re-enter the Baal system to help in the defence against the daemons and kids.
I would be a nice twist if it turns out Mephiston can summon daemons without the great risk of perils.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: As a slight curveball, it could be the Knights of Blood chapter. They are renegade and they did re-enter the Baal system to help in the defence against the daemons and kids.
I would be a nice twist if it turns out Mephiston can summon daemons without the great risk of perils.
Uh, what? Loyalist space marines don't summon demons. Don't confuse inane 7th edition mechanics designed to be cash grabs with actual background :p
endlesswaltz123 wrote: As a slight curveball, it could be the Knights of Blood chapter. They are renegade and they did re-enter the Baal system to help in the defence against the daemons and kids.
I would be a nice twist if it turns out Mephiston can summon daemons without the great risk of perils.
Uh, what? Loyalist space marines don't summon demons. Don't confuse inane 7th edition mechanics designed to be cash grabs with actual background :p
Souls of their fallen bretheren. Expand your mind bro!
endlesswaltz123 wrote: As a slight curveball, it could be the Knights of Blood chapter. They are renegade and they did re-enter the Baal system to help in the defence against the daemons and kids.
I would be a nice twist if it turns out Mephiston can summon daemons without the great risk of perils.
Uh, what? Loyalist space marines don't summon demons. Don't confuse inane 7th edition mechanics designed to be cash grabs with actual background :p
In fluff Mephiston has been taunted by a daemon before that he's only a step or two away from turning into one himself.
The original fluff was fine when Blood Angels and Necrons put their differences aside to fight the Tyranids but I'm not sure why Necrons would come to their aid to the Blood Angels very own system. I'm going to have to put my fluff narravtive skills into hyper overdrive to come up with a story for that one.
Nemessor Zandrek confuses Baal for an allied Necron Dynasty Homeworld.
The Necrons feel it's a matter of honor to repay the life debt for the Blood Angels assistance fighting the previous Tyranid incursion.
The Tyranids are a greatest threat to the Necrontyr Empire since the Old Ones. The Necrons have an old bit of wisdom, applicable to the situration, about the enemies of their enemy being a great expendible resource .
niv-mizzet wrote: I just don't know about that quickening power. It's like a nerfed warp speed, with the exception that it gives fleet, and in some situations you might benefit from tossing it on some other dude nearby. But the fleet part literally only helps if the Libby is alone, so Mephy or furioso libbies. And Mephy in the current codex has fleet already.
Disappointing choice for the Primaris, really. Would've preferred blood lance, sanguine sword, or wings of sanguinius instead.
I guess you could:
Run a libby with Mephiston
Take Sanguine powers for the libby
Take Biomancy for Mephiston
Hope for Warp Speed
Double buff Mephiston
F*** $hit up for days
Profit?
niv-mizzet wrote: I just don't know about that quickening power. It's like a nerfed warp speed, with the exception that it gives fleet, and in some situations you might benefit from tossing it on some other dude nearby. But the fleet part literally only helps if the Libby is alone, so Mephy or furioso libbies. And Mephy in the current codex has fleet already.
Disappointing choice for the Primaris, really. Would've preferred blood lance, sanguine sword, or wings of sanguinius instead.
Warp Speed works only on the caster, right? Quickening works on a target or the caster.
niv-mizzet wrote: I just don't know about that quickening power. It's like a nerfed warp speed, with the exception that it gives fleet, and in some situations you might benefit from tossing it on some other dude nearby. But the fleet part literally only helps if the Libby is alone, so Mephy or furioso libbies. And Mephy in the current codex has fleet already.
Disappointing choice for the Primaris, really. Would've preferred blood lance, sanguine sword, or wings of sanguinius instead.
Warp Speed works only on the caster, right? Quickening works on a target or the caster.
Yes, I mentioned that in the post you quoted already.
A lot of the times it seems like your best move is to just toss it on a sarge or priest nearby to give them a leg up. I doubt fleet will come up EVER outside of furioso libbies. Still don't think the fleet and targeting allowance were worth dropping warp speed from 3 to d3 though. And it's not like I was salivating over warp speed before. Just another "meh" power.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The small image of an army on WD #44 pg 14 has a librarian on it that I couldn't place at first. It looks like he has a pistol in one hand and a double bladed axe in the other. Is this the librarian from Space Hulk?
The Librarian from Space Hulk is actually Mephiston. He was called Brother Calistarius before the incident in which he got trapped under a building and then had to fight through the Black Rage.
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endlesswaltz123 wrote: As a slight curveball, it could be the Knights of Blood chapter. They are renegade and they did re-enter the Baal system to help in the defence against the daemons and kids.
Those damn kids. Always causing trouble in inter galatic solar systems.
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niv-mizzet wrote: I just don't know about that quickening power. It's like a nerfed warp speed, with the exception that it gives fleet, and in some situations you might benefit from tossing it on some other dude nearby. But the fleet part literally only helps if the Libby is alone, so Mephy or furioso libbies. And Mephy in the current codex has fleet already.
Disappointing choice for the Primaris, really. Would've preferred blood lance, sanguine sword, or wings of sanguinius instead.
The plus points are that as you mentioned you can cast it onto another dude. So you can use to beef up Dante or The Sanguinor, etc. Also it's the primaris power. So you can always get it and you'll get it for free if you focus on the Sanguinary powers.
The original fluff was fine when Blood Angels and Necrons put their differences aside to fight the Tyranids but I'm not sure why Necrons would come to their aid to the Blood Angels very own system. I'm going to have to put my fluff narravtive skills into hyper overdrive to come up with a story for that one.
Nemessor Zandrek confuses Baal for an allied Necron Dynasty Homeworld.
The Necrons feel it's a matter of honor to repay the life debt for the Blood Angels assistance fighting the previous Tyranid incursion.
The Tyranids are a greatest threat to the Necrontyr Empire since the Old Ones. The Necrons have an old bit of wisdom, applicable to the situration, about the enemies of their enemy being a great expendible resource .
Oh well, thanks for the suggestions. Also pretty convenient just to have them pop by at the right moment as well. Like they are coming to visit a relative just to get outside the house to witness the commotion.
Picture below seems to have new terminators confirmed, sculpted chapter banner and storm shields look detailed too. Librarian also looks new rather than conversion, not same profile as any current ones including Calistarius from space hulk. Here's hoping!
Beeen waiting ages for new BAs maybe time to reboot the army!
Oh well, thanks for the suggestions. Also pretty convenient just to have them pop by at the right moment as well. Like they are coming to visit a relative just to get outside the house to witness the commotion.
Or they could be tracking the terrifying wave of death that is consuming everything in its path, and see an opportunity to stop it.
It's not as if the Necrons are behind Imperial lines handing out energy drinks and giving back rubs.
Picture below seems to have new terminators confirmed, sculpted chapter banner and storm shields look detailed too. Librarian also looks new rather than conversion, not same profile as any current ones including Calistarius from space hulk. Here's hoping!
Beeen waiting ages for new BAs maybe time to reboot the army!
I don't know how anyone can claim to see sculpting on that stuff in that blurry image.
Picture below seems to have new terminators confirmed, sculpted chapter banner and storm shields look detailed too. Librarian also looks new rather than conversion, not same profile as any current ones including Calistarius from space hulk. Here's hoping!
Beeen waiting ages for new BAs maybe time to reboot the army!
I don't know how anyone can claim to see sculpting on that stuff in that blurry image.
Quite obvious on the banner, raised relief writing on the scroll at the bottom, purity seals on the sides, top angel type thing is also new with something hanging from it. Given all of the banners now have detail on them I would be fairly confident that it wasn't freehands. Just looks that way to me. Some of the terminators have shoulder pad details too, the black BA symbol is visible on the standard bearer's right side
That banner looks familiar, look through the 5th edition codex (haven't got mine near) I'm sure it's amongst the various banners in the artwork section.
The hammer terminators appear quite standard. But the the banner bearer and sergeant look new or kit bashed. Does that banner come in the sanguinary guard kit? The librarian does look new as well. GW doesn't really showcase conversions so much anymore.
Looks like substantial changes to the robe detail.
What makes this harder (but nevertheless a valid use of my time at work) is that GW has established that they will base new minis on existing CAD designs.
So it's likely that they could be very similar to existing minis while ALSO being new.
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Bronzefists42 wrote: I think people are really overestimating GW if they think blurry photos are some kind of marketing tactics.
angelofvengeance wrote: I'll wait for better pics before I start slavering what is a VERY unclear photo.
Boring!
I think I see an entire range of plastic Sisters behind the flight stand stem!
Don't spread your lies here sir!!! that is clearly new necrons and only logical since we will now be battle brothers and this is proof they are the next codex up! GW easter eggs everywhere!
I know, right? I mean the dice look cool, but having the symbol on the 'one' side is just lame...especially in a game where one's are not typically what you want to see show up on your die rolls...save for maybe Ld tests...
plastictrees wrote: Looks like substantial changes to the robe detail.
What makes this harder (but nevertheless a valid use of my time at work) is that GW has established that they will base new minis on existing CAD designs.
So it's likely that they could be very similar to existing minis while ALSO being new.
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Bronzefists42 wrote: I think people are really overestimating GW if they think blurry photos are some kind of marketing tactics.
But then again they look dumb enough to do that.
Well, we're talking about them.
Have we seen the new Tac Marine sprues yet? It's possible there are a few BA terminator upgrade bits on them (like the DA upgrade sprue had for DW termies).
Well i went from, totally going to buy some of those dice to not buying any. I dont wanna be sad to see my chapter symbol, just 5 mins worth or research or even common sense wouldve told them that.
When you have the magazine in hand things are much clearer. I thought maybe the librarian pictured was the one from the Space Hulk box but the gun and axe are switched around and his robe is different. He is standing more upright than the regular terminator librarian. It is definitely a new sculpt. The Terminators are of a different sculpt than any others we have seen at this point.
This leads me to believe that the rumor of the Blood Angels specific Terminators is, in fact, true. It also appears like we are going to be getting a new Terminator Librarian. The new Terminators irritate me since THEY are what should be in the Deathstorm box, not the crappy basic Terminators. I am cool with the Librarian though, might pick one up.
Truth be told im not really worried about a sanguinary priest "nerf". As it stands now hes a hugely expensive single wound model, but cant be any cheaper because his effect is arguably one of the most powerful in the game (as far as elites go). Making him only hand out feel no pain means that they can either extend his range to 12 inches or something, or make him drastically cheaper.
SharkoutofWata wrote: Oh it is absolutely working. I'm here checking every new post hungry for new info and I haven't even started collecting the army yet...
Yeah pretty much. Thats what happens when an army gets dumped on for 2 straight editions and finally gets an update. Nearly 5 years is a long time to wait under those circumstances.
SharkoutofWata wrote: Oh it is absolutely working. I'm here checking every new post hungry for new info and I haven't even started collecting the army yet...
Yeah pretty much. Thats what happens when an army gets dumped on for 2 straight editions and finally gets an update. Nearly 5 years is a long time to wait under those circumstances.
Imagine the complete implosion when sisters actually happen.
pantheralegionnaire wrote: I'm just loving the volume of posts about so very little actual leaked info. There's a lot of pent up consumer demand on this thread, myself included.
Maybe this "drag the release out over several weeks" strategy is working.
I feel like this has been such a slow release. Seeing as rumors have been popping up for months now.
OT:Is it this Friday that the Codex goes up for pre-order?
Yes. The codex and everything go up for preorder on the 5th, i think. The manager at my LGS said he should be receiving shipments in on the 12th of december.
And someone ALWAYS has it worse, but that doesnt mean we cant complain or hate our own situation =p
sockwithaticket wrote: Apart from Vect the only characters who've disappeared from the last couple of codices are ones that don't have models.
Every BA character has a model, so they should be safe. (Even if those models are ancient and in the awful finecast).
You mean like sly marbo? He had a model and was cut from the IG book and that model was newer and more dynamic than some of the one piece two dimensional 2nd edition BA sculpts. My guess is that they'll redo Mephiston, keep Dante the same, and dump Tycho.
I said last couple of codices. Couple = 2. The last two codices are Dark Eldar and Grey Knights, about which my comment is accurate.
The IG book and it's lost characters are a bit of a special case. Correct me if I'm wrong but the characters cut were Al-Rahmen, Sly Marbo and Harker? Now as far as I know (again, please correct me if I'm wrong), while all three of those had models, they never made the transition to finecast and were still metal? If my info is right, then they were dropped because GW didn't want to keep up production of the metal miniatures and were not interested in changing them to finecast given that they seem to have given up on new releases in that material, too (that's not me saying it will disappear, just that we no longer get new models in or old models converted to and going forwards this will continue to be the case).
Rather then doing these mental gymnastics, wouldn't it be easier to just assume that GW is run by plebs and there is no real rhyme or reason apparent to us outsiders that determines who gets cut and who stays?
BlaxicanX wrote: Rather then doing these mental gymnastics, wouldn't it be easier to just assume that GW is run by plebs and there is no real rhyme or reason apparent to us outsiders that determines who gets cut and who stays?
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.. and all that.
Much better than the earthquake shakey ones we get usually 
