skullking wrote: These Deepkin look excellent! I'm really happy at how GW has spun AoS into something very different from a LotR/D&D style fantasy game, to something very much it's own new(ish) take on fantasy.
It's almost as though they looked at what things they'd made for the previous WaFaBa armies which sort of broke those stereotypes, and expanded them into their own armies.
AoS has certainly widened the possibilities. In the Old World, a mish-mash of fantasy tropes and historical aesthetics, things were arguably too defined.
My general inclination is that the bolded bit is more important than we might initially think: this may be one of the long lasting effects of the GW/Chapterhouse lawsuit. One of the limitations of a 'realistic' fantasy or a fantasy setting with a very widely shared aesthetic is that it's very difficult to establish defensible IP.
A similar reason is why there (seems) to have been a move to more and more outlandish names and titles; 'Sea Elves' is all but un-protectable, while "Idoneth Deepkin" is a clearly fanciful name that is far more distinctive and a stronger IP.
"Sea Elves" would certainly have been a boring name. "Sky Dwarves" is also a lot less interesting than "Kharadron Overlords"
...but did 'Elfs' really need to become 'Aelfs'? 'Dwarves' into 'Duardin'? Orks to orruks, giants to gargants, ogres to ogors, zombies to deadwalkers. Because none of those changes make the IP defenisble.
NinthMusketeer wrote: "Sea Elves" would certainly have been a boring name. "Sky Dwarves" is also a lot less interesting than "Kharadron Overlords"
...but did 'Elfs' really need to become 'Aelfs'? 'Dwarves' into 'Duardin'? Orks to orruks, giants to gargants, ogres to ogors, zombies to deadwalkers. Because none of those changes make the IP defenisble.
I kinda agree, these names just made the game seem more juvenile and goofy. Some flawed thinking on their part when it comes to some of these names.
NinthMusketeer wrote: "Sea Elves" would certainly have been a boring name. "Sky Dwarves" is also a lot less interesting than "Kharadron Overlords"
...but did 'Elfs' really need to become 'Aelfs'? 'Dwarves' into 'Duardin'? Orks to orruks, giants to gargants, ogres to ogors, zombies to deadwalkers. Because none of those changes make the IP defenisble.
Apologies, as it's late and I was going from memory, but (IIRC) one of the prongs of the trademark test is distinctiveness, and a 'fanciful' name (as opposed to a descriptive one) better satisfies this. If anything, 'Aelfs' is probably not as fanciful as it might be (given that "Aelf" is a historical alternate spelling of 'Elf').
The cases, and in some instances the Lanham Act, identify four different categories of terms with respect to trademark protection. Arrayed in an ascending order which roughly reflects their eligibility to trademark status and the degree of protection accorded, these classes are (1) generic, (2) descriptive, (3) suggestive, and (4) arbitrary or fanciful.
Prosaically I think there is the Search Engine Optimization element. If you go and search ORCS you will get hits from everything under the sun, even if you add in wargaming, 28mm or what have you short of Games Workshop.
On the other hand search for Idoneth Deepkin and try to find something other than GW stuff...
AegisGrimm wrote: The turtle reminds me of the Chitaurii Leviathans from Avengers, and no one has a problem with those flying.
exactly what I first thought of
I have to admit, they are starting to grow on me...especially the Atlantean looking elves (I liked them from the start but was put off with the pale infantry who I strongly dislike). I'm thinking that changing the heads on the pale infantry and doing a different colour might make them work for me.
That's basically how I saw it besides IP protection. Easier to find their products online.
Not that I ever minded the changes, tons of fantasies do it and some even do it to "humans" as well. It's easy enough to get used to and makes them feel like they belong to the setting rather than copy-pasted Tolkien races, IMO.(Aelf alone works well since it has Nordic origins and the setting is Norse and Greek inspired.)
Yeah, where are those free guild guys? You'd think they would be one of the first factions to be released, considering how in the old world they were the Empire, a major faction.
Making human models unique is gonna take some time so it's not surprising they aren't out yet in a new army. Besides that the Freeguild are everywhere in the lore in the major cities colonized by Azyrheim and they gave a good reason to them not appearing until the end of the Age of Chaos as only Stormcasts could leave the realm of heaven without opening it's gates to invasion by the endless chaos hordes.
Only Stormcasts and Devoted tribes hiding among the realms could do anything.
Now we're seeing them taking ground and patrolling cities as the Age of Hope let civilization grow again.
We'll likely see a independent battletome first as the Empire dressed Freeguild act as Sigmar's colonial armies while later rising independent realm armies like Lantic empire, life realm knight orders and numerous kingdoms and tribes get new models while incorporating some of the Freeguilders.
Now.. bringing back Bretonnia has ghostly Grail guardians with forest themes... that might be just enough.
I do hope we see Gilles one day, he has the best chance of making it to the mortal realms. Though I think he'll be in the realm of light rather than life as Teclis rules there and Lileath was both their goddess.
The life realm does have numerous knight orders and even a Order of the Bretons but they're all either Sigmar worshippers or Alarielle followers(the new Lady)that ally with the Sylvaneth. Nothing there for Gilles really.
Eldarain wrote: Which I still don't fully understand. I thought the courts ruled "compatible with Idoneth Deepkin" was fine?
It is. As are "alternatives to X" or any language that states association without implying official endorsement by the TM owner. Also...
mhsellwood wrote: Prosaically I think there is the Search Engine Optimization element. If you go and search ORCS you will get hits from everything under the sun, even if you add in wargaming, 28mm or what have you short of Games Workshop.
On the other hand search for Idoneth Deepkin and try to find something other than GW stuff...
That doesn't have anything to do with trademarks, you can use them in SEO as well providing the page the SEO takes someone to uses the aforementioned appropriate language. Idoneth are brand new and not even out yet so it's little wonder googling them only has GW results, and AoS generally hasn't lit the third party market on fire, presumably because they're already doing fine out of 40K and the residual WHF fanbase. Give it another couple of years of AoS bedding in and growing its playerbase and there will be just as many not-Idoneth and not-Kharadron and not-Stormcast as there were not-High Elves and Fantasy Landsknecht, all being sold by websites perfectly legally making use of GW's new "more defensible" trademarks - all the AoS switch bought them was a couple of years of breathing space while third parties waited to see whether AoS would stick around, now they know it is you'll soon find searching for an AoS name will pop up websites that are selling more trad-fantasy Dwarf models and so on. In fact if they do their SEO properly, those third party alternatives should now be even more obvious relative to GW product, since they'd no longer be competing with all the other fantasy and folklore results, searching for those lovely unique names would show just them and GW.
Further, while the older situation may have brought up non-GW results when people went searching for GW, the same was also true in reverse, searching for common fantasy races often had GW-related results right up on the first page, and that will likely never be true for AoS stuff because of the intentional disassociation.
In the end it doesn't matter of course, AoS is doing fine now, but I maintain the whole "enforceable IP" thing is just security theatre, and I'd wager any benefits gained from the switch have been soundly balanced out by the various downsides.
Meh, a rose by any other name as far as I'm concerned.
Edit: GW will never truly escape the parasites but as long as they keep proper support of AoS and use the breathing room they have for superior advertising and media outlets (as they've been doing in spades) then the quality of their product has nothing to fear.
AegisGrimm wrote: The turtle reminds me of the Chitaurii Leviathans from Avengers, and no one has a problem with those flying.
exactly what I first thought of
I have to admit, they are starting to grow on me...especially the Atlantean looking elves (I liked them from the start but was put off with the pale infantry who I strongly dislike). I'm thinking that changing the heads on the pale infantry and doing a different colour might make them work for me.
The armored Deepkin I loved immediately, definitely will be my focus on using one day.
As for thrall conversions, maybe the elf-like Sylvaneth heads and say that they're kidnapped soulpod thralls from the realm of life whose souls are bound to your army's command?
Loots of cool stuff in this release. But I'm a bit disappointed that they, just like Mantic, went with the sea-elves/merman aesthetic instead of something more monstrous like deep ones or murlocs.
Always a chance for that with a Destruction focused faction. (Probably something to update the troggoths if not actual fishmen)
Also, probably me reading too much into it, but it's interesting we got airships the middle of last year and now a naval focused faction towards the middle of this year. If next year gives us something like those greenskin scrapfleets at nearlyvthecsame time then I'm going to hype myself up for a possible Man o' War (Realm o' War) naval game.
I doubt that Idoneth were impossible in WHFB, but whatever, they blew up the world and made a new universe with a crazy god at the helm that names everything Sigmar-xyz
I just want to add my voice to those wishing for more regular humans. We got one human withhout Chaos or Sigmar steroids so far for AoS, right? That's crazy. And zero horses.
I want some humans and heroic knights in my Fantasy setting.
The cases, and in some instances the Lanham Act, identify four different categories of terms with respect to trademark protection. Arrayed in an ascending order which roughly reflects their eligibility to trademark status and the degree of protection accorded, these classes are (1) generic, (2) descriptive, (3) suggestive, and (4) arbitrary or fanciful.
Yes, Age of Sigmar is Trademark: The Game. But they couldn't call it that because it's too generic and thus not protected.
Baron Klatz wrote: Always a chance for that with a Destruction focused faction. (Probably something to update the troggoths if not actual fishmen)
What do you mean, Destruction? Is that a new Order sub-faction or something? Would be cool if Order got some new models for a change. It's been a while.
Mymearan wrote: I don't think we even have one? If you're talking about the Silver Tower priest, he's supposedly a giant among men.
But yes, I also miss horses! Nothing wrong with a good ol' horse.
I doubt we will ever see regular horses in AoS. They are too ”ordinary” for the setting. Maybe we’ll get some kind of ”Equiline Destriers” or something similar. With claws.
Oguhmek wrote: I doubt we will ever see regular horses in AoS. They are too ”ordinary” for the setting. Maybe we’ll get some kind of ”Equiline Destriers” or something similar. With claws.
Order Draconis, Freeguild Outriders, Dark Riders, and Swifthawk Agent Reavers all off the top of my head have "normal" horses.
Daughters of Khain have the Doomfire Warlocks. And while they are older models, they are part of the new list... Though the horses on the Warlocks don't look like normal horses. More like Vampire horses or demon horses.
Smokestack wrote:Daughters of Khain have the Doomfire Warlocks. And while they are older models, they are part of the new list... Though the horses on the Warlocks don't look like normal horses. More like Vampire horses or demon horses.
That has to do with the fluff on the Dark Riders. Their horses used to be stolen from Ellyrion herds on Ulthuan, then 'corrupted' by the sorceresses with magic and beaten/tormented by the Beastmasters of the Dark Elves until they were vicious tempered warmounts compared to the normal Elven Steeds.
Oguhmek wrote:But they’re old models, right?
Oguhmek wrote:I should have specified ”...for new models...”.
Dark Riders/Doomfire Warlocks came out at the same time as the Witch Elves and Bloodwrack Shrines. They have been confirmed as being designed with AoS in mind.
Mymearan wrote: I don't think we even have one? If you're talking about the Silver Tower priest, he's supposedly a giant among men.
Per his description in the novel, yes, but the model isn't really all that tall. He's about the same height as the Genestealer Neophytes that came out for 40k around the same time. Most of the character models we have for Age of Sigmar represent both a specific character in tie-in novels as well as a generic class of character in their respective army books.
Honestly considering some of the styles of miniature making we are seeing from the Sigmar range I think when they do horses they are going to look fantastic. Horses in the past were always rather - well - plain. The newer griffin riding knights and such are really showing powerful dynamic poses; plus with rank and file requirements gone they can go a bit more wild with the poses!
The only other way to do horses would be to scale them up to a proper size compared to riders; but honestly I don't think we'll see that.
Indeed, I think anything horse-like or just plain horses will go to aelves. Besides the Daughters of Khaine there's that Phoenicium city artwork that has an elven figure on horseback.
If they go for a name change or horse+ they might use those ghur-stryders mentioned to be used in the Hydonis empire before it fell.
Best bet is with a army focused around Tyrion and integrating the Order Draconis. Humans will likely focus on more mythical mounts like Demigryph knights.
What do you mean, Destruction? Is that a new Order sub-faction or something? Would be cool if Order got some new models for a change. It's been a while.
Oh hardy har har.
That's the consequence between the Seeds of Hope campaign being Order dominated (despite 3 Destruction releases and Flesh-eaters release at the time) and GW announcing they have the next 5 years of productions ready afterwards.
Order sells best and so it got put to the forefront. Destruction is coming though, It's inevitable especially when you got mushroom headed goblin shaman running around.
made a new universe with a crazy god at the helm that names everything Sigmar-xyz
Just a city and a mineral, hardly worse than Nagash. He's far more interested in naming everything and everyone after celestial events. :p
skullking wrote: These Deepkin look excellent! I'm really happy at how GW has spun AoS into something very different from a LotR/D&D style fantasy game, to something very much it's own new(ish) take on fantasy.
It's almost as though they looked at what things they'd made for the previous WaFaBa armies which sort of broke those stereotypes, and expanded them into their own armies.
honestly, just looks like WoW to me, not saying there is anything wrong with it, but it's not that unique
Nothing in fantasy's unique. Even Fyreslayers riding their fire dragons have some shared elements with heroes of might and magic with early red dwarves controlling machine dragons with the 5th installment giving the dwarves their own faction and making lava dragons as a elite unit.
All you can do is take the best elements from the fantasy genre as a whole and make it look cool with it's own unique twist on the idea. AoS accomplishes this in spades, you'll probably find a similarity somewhere but the lore and details make it it's own thing. (As do a lot of recent fantasy genres trying to distinguish themselves from Tolkien)
Baron Klatz wrote: Nothing in fantasy's unique. Even Fyreslayers riding their fire dragons have some shared elements with heroes of might and magic with early red dwarves controlling machine dragons with the 5th installment giving the dwarves their own faction and making lava dragons as a elite unit.
All you can do is take the best elements from the fantasy genre as a whole and make it look cool with it's own unique twist on the idea. AoS accomplishes this in spades, you'll probably find a similarity somewhere but the lore and details make it it's own thing. (As do a lot of recent fantasy genres trying to distinguish themselves from Tolkien)
I completely agree. Further I would even say that if one did produce something entirely unique people wouldn't like it--a new development building on an older idea has more appeal. Of course one could go beyond that to note that it is literally impossible for a human to conceive anything that isn't made from already-known elements. Try to imagine a color you've never seen, for example.
From discussion on TGA, a little round-up of what we know so far regarding new Death releases (and new Nighthaunt) :
Rumors before Adepticon 2018 : a new Black Coach, a new starter set for AOS 2.0 pitting a as-yet unopened Stormcast Chamber (Ruination / Sacrosanct) against a Death army : the Nighthaunt.
News at Adepticon regarding Death releases :
- A teaser of the Black Coach, looking bigger than the last one (because plastic and - apprently - not 2 but 4 horses). The video ends with "The dead rise... Soon" ; a reference to many Death releases IMO, not "just" one new model.
- A teaser of the next 2 Shadespire "season 2" warbands : apparently, a new kind of Nighthaunt spirit ("hangman") and Wizard-y Stormcast (pointy helmet and magic scepters). This totally fits the content of the rumored AOS 2.0 Starter set (also, the first 2 Shadespire "season 1" warbands were from the AOS 1.0 starter set).
- Some Malign Portents stories are Nighthaunt focused, notably the 21st and the 23rd (today's story : it describes a new type of Nighthaunt spirit " a hunched thing, huge and lambent, festooned with rattling manacles and weighted chain" with an interesting weapon against Stormcast souls* (go read it !).
Note that "Souls War", out June-July, is apparently talking about the war of Nagash and Sigmar following the MP fluff. We know that the Gods are constantly fighting over their followers' souls*. Like a "Gate of Azyr" 2.0, J. Reynold's book seems perfect to go along a new starter set !
So I think we'll get by the Summer :
- A starter set with Nighthaunt models in it (I hope new, dedicated figures, not a set Ala Blightwar).
- A Shadespire Nighthaunt warband (almost a given, going by the Faction logo top right of the WHU teased card).
- A full Nighthaunt army, with Battletome, new Heroes like the MP story's ghast, new units like Black Coach and the "hangman" ghasts, etc. Also, lots of Rumors Engine have recently been quite "spectral". And more : the last 2 "true" AOS Death releases (i.e. The End Time : Nagash and the Knight Of Shrouds) were conceptually heavily "spectral" too. Finally there is lots of Nighthaunt / Wraith artworks in MP campaign book around the Knight Of Shourds (logical situation given its faction - also around Nagash's throne on the LoN cover).
I counted the Sigmar priest as human, yeah. He's supposed to be tall and he IS beefy compared to older Fantasy plastic hummies, but he's not as giant as the other "giant among men" dudes, the Slaughterpriests and the Bloodsecrator. I'm not sure if the Darkoath heros should count, as they run on Chaos juice as well. Cannibalism fueled Reavers, Deathbringers and the Bloodstoker as well as warform-rocking acolytes obviously don't count.
But as was said before, a SP looks so much more imposing and unbelievably huuuge when stood next to a flagellant. I'm really interested in seeing the Deepkin next to older elves, the witch elves have a good size to contrast with Stormcasts, Brutes and Chaos dudes and are supposedly from the same design phase as the Melusai and Khinerai who are much larger looking thanks to tails or wings.
Horses making a comeback would make me sooo happy, especially in the quality of gryph-chargers. I'm a knight fanboy. I don't understand how they could kill Bretonnia, surely Aos crazyness plus grail pilgrims = a cathedral firing mega trebuchet protected by reliquiary knights, burning-with-mystical-fire grail knights, even more Pegasi and a giant hippogriff kit?! Sigh. Even Empire knights were killed off for demi-gryph knights. They're a cool concept with lacklustre sculpts, but having regular or - even better - updated knights would be much more to my liking.
Hippo drakes, okay, bird zebras, cool, giant uggo boars, mhm, disfigured overblinged Chaos quadrupeds, eh, I want HEAVY HORSE units.
Knights in pseudo tournament plate with a heavy fantasy Renaissance look, a combination of the ocean cloak elf with fish armour and the greatswords, drool. Or medival knights more like the Green Knight (M2O him, please GW).
Binabik15 wrote: I counted the Sigmar priest as human, yeah. He's supposed to be tall and he IS beefy compared to older Fantasy plastic hummies, but he's not as giant as the other "giant among men" dudes, the Slaughterpriests and the Bloodsecrator. I'm not sure if the Darkoath heros should count, as they run on Chaos juice as well. Cannibalism fueled Reavers, Deathbringers and the Bloodstoker as well as warform-rocking acolytes obviously don't count.
But as was said before, a SP looks so much more imposing and unbelievably huuuge when stood next to a flagellant. I'm really interested in seeing the Deepkin next to older elves, the witch elves have a good size to contrast with Stormcasts, Brutes and Chaos dudes and are supposedly from the same design phase as the Melusai and Khinerai who are much larger looking thanks to tails or wings.
Horses making a comeback would make me sooo happy, especially in the quality of gryph-chargers. I'm a knight fanboy. I don't understand how they could kill Bretonnia, surely Aos crazyness plus grail pilgrims = a cathedral firing mega trebuchet protected by reliquiary knights, burning-with-mystical-fire grail knights, even more Pegasi and a giant hippogriff kit?! Sigh. Even Empire knights were killed off for demi-gryph knights. They're a cool concept with lacklustre sculpts, but having regular or - even better - updated knights would be much more to my liking.
Hippo drakes, okay, bird zebras, cool, giant uggo boars, mhm, disfigured overblinged Chaos quadrupeds, eh, I want HEAVY HORSE units.
Knights in pseudo tournament plate with a heavy fantasy Renaissance look, a combination of the ocean cloak elf with fish armour and the greatswords, drool. Or medival knights more like the Green Knight (M2O him, please GW).
skullking wrote: These Deepkin look excellent! I'm really happy at how GW has spun AoS into something very different from a LotR/D&D style fantasy game, to something very much it's own new(ish) take on fantasy.
It's almost as though they looked at what things they'd made for the previous WaFaBa armies which sort of broke those stereotypes, and expanded them into their own armies.
honestly, just looks like WoW to me, not saying there is anything wrong with it, but it's not that unique
Considering when they made the original Warcraft game, Blizzard approached GW to make it actually a Warhammer Fantasy game, that is a bit ironic (and a bad move for GW turning them down at the time... ). To be fair, there are certainly similarities between WoW and AoS, but there is a lot that's different too.
Not to 'swim' (slightly on topic) too far off topic. But I was wondering if some of the folks who were particularly not fans of the style AoS has created, are/or were people who enjoyed playing WaFaBa in 'Low' fantasy mode. I recall reading a white dwarf article about it many years ago, and while it didn't appeal to me at all (I love lots of big magic, and weird big ol beasties), it's not really something that's as easy to do with the new AoS models/armies. For those who don't know, 'Low Fantasy' is essentially using very basic troops (no trolls, or dragon ogres, or tree men), low level wizards, and no 'BIG' magic items, and no one riding anything more exciting than a horse (or racial equivalent of a basic cavalry beast). AoS kind of throws that out the window, there are basic troops to a degree, but they're pretty high fantasy (witch elves, mohawk fire dwarves, Bloated plague warriors). I could see old school WaFaBa players who liked the flexibility of the game to scale between Low & High fantasy feeling a bit left behind for sure.
And now, back on topic!!! I will probably get one of those cool Giganto Turtles for my Chaos Dwarves to fly around on. I enjoy finding cool beasties for my CD horde. Also, speaking of 'HORDES', It would make a cool alt model for the Skorne Animantarax, assuming it's around the same size.
At the moment I'm expecting the Dark Eldar codex to be out on the 14th and they don't tend to put a big pre-order up the same week as a big release.
Dark Eldar aren't supposed to be a "big release". And it being "out" on the 14th would mean it goes for preorder on the 7th.
And yet none of that disproves what I just said, I don't think we've seen a major model release go up for pre-order the same week as a codex goes on sale. Most likely for marketing reasons.
Binabik15 wrote: I counted the Sigmar priest as human, yeah. He's supposed to be tall and he IS beefy compared to older Fantasy plastic hummies, but he's not as giant as the other "giant among men" dudes, the Slaughterpriests and the Bloodsecrator. I'm not sure if the Darkoath heros should count, as they run on Chaos juice as well. Cannibalism fueled Reavers, Deathbringers and the Bloodstoker as well as warform-rocking acolytes obviously don't count.
But as was said before, a SP looks so much more imposing and unbelievably huuuge when stood next to a flagellant. I'm really interested in seeing the Deepkin next to older elves, the witch elves have a good size to contrast with Stormcasts, Brutes and Chaos dudes and are supposedly from the same design phase as the Melusai and Khinerai who are much larger looking thanks to tails or wings.
Horses making a comeback would make me sooo happy, especially in the quality of gryph-chargers. I'm a knight fanboy. I don't understand how they could kill Bretonnia, surely Aos crazyness plus grail pilgrims = a cathedral firing mega trebuchet protected by reliquiary knights, burning-with-mystical-fire grail knights, even more Pegasi and a giant hippogriff kit?! Sigh. Even Empire knights were killed off for demi-gryph knights. They're a cool concept with lacklustre sculpts, but having regular or - even better - updated knights would be much more to my liking.
Hippo drakes, okay, bird zebras, cool, giant uggo boars, mhm, disfigured overblinged Chaos quadrupeds, eh, I want HEAVY HORSE units.
Knights in pseudo tournament plate with a heavy fantasy Renaissance look, a combination of the ocean cloak elf with fish armour and the greatswords, drool. Or medival knights more like the Green Knight (M2O him, please GW).
I'm building an army for them. Well, I did one knight so far, my Gutrot's Reaver still need some conversions first
I'm just unsure about the army list, seeing how knights are supposedly a looot better than Blight Kings in Plague Garden I'd have to basically use Varanguard knights as sllies to represent "proper" knights and chaos knights would have to be mounted sergeants and hedge knights. Still mulling over list building.
The Avatar elf with his fish scale armour would be a goooood base for a conversion and the eels nice for fishy Pusgoyle Blightlords, btw.
Binabik15 wrote: I counted the Sigmar priest as human, yeah. He's supposed to be tall and he IS beefy compared to older Fantasy plastic hummies, but he's not as giant as the other "giant among men" dudes, the Slaughterpriests and the Bloodsecrator. I'm not sure if the Darkoath heros should count, as they run on Chaos juice as well. Cannibalism fueled Reavers, Deathbringers and the Bloodstoker as well as warform-rocking acolytes obviously don't count.
But as was said before, a SP looks so much more imposing and unbelievably huuuge when stood next to a flagellant. I'm really interested in seeing the Deepkin next to older elves, the witch elves have a good size to contrast with Stormcasts, Brutes and Chaos dudes and are supposedly from the same design phase as the Melusai and Khinerai who are much larger looking thanks to tails or wings.
Horses making a comeback would make me sooo happy, especially in the quality of gryph-chargers. I'm a knight fanboy. I don't understand how they could kill Bretonnia, surely Aos crazyness plus grail pilgrims = a cathedral firing mega trebuchet protected by reliquiary knights, burning-with-mystical-fire grail knights, even more Pegasi and a giant hippogriff kit?! Sigh. Even Empire knights were killed off for demi-gryph knights. They're a cool concept with lacklustre sculpts, but having regular or - even better - updated knights would be much more to my liking.
Hippo drakes, okay, bird zebras, cool, giant uggo boars, mhm, disfigured overblinged Chaos quadrupeds, eh, I want HEAVY HORSE units.
Knights in pseudo tournament plate with a heavy fantasy Renaissance look, a combination of the ocean cloak elf with fish armour and the greatswords, drool. Or medival knights more like the Green Knight (M2O him, please GW).
I'm building an army for them. Well, I did one knight so far, my Gutrot's Reaver still need some conversions first
I'm just unsure about the army list, seeing how knights are supposedly a looot better than Blight Kings in Plague Garden I'd have to basically use Varanguard knights as sllies to represent "proper" knights and chaos knights would have to be mounted sergeants and hedge knights. Still mulling over list building.
The Avatar elf with his fish scale armour would be a goooood base for a conversion and the eels nice for fishy Pusgoyle Blightlords, btw.
The Order of the Fly is composed of Blightkings. Some of the named characters are indeed stronger because they are equivalent to hero models and would have profiles like a Lord of Plagues or Lord of Blights (one could say with their own artifacts/command traits mixed in too).
Binabik15 wrote: I counted the Sigmar priest as human, yeah. He's supposed to be tall and he IS beefy compared to older Fantasy plastic hummies, but he's not as giant as the other "giant among men" dudes, the Slaughterpriests and the Bloodsecrator. I'm not sure if the Darkoath heros should count, as they run on Chaos juice as well. Cannibalism fueled Reavers, Deathbringers and the Bloodstoker as well as warform-rocking acolytes obviously don't count.
But as was said before, a SP looks so much more imposing and unbelievably huuuge when stood next to a flagellant. I'm really interested in seeing the Deepkin next to older elves, the witch elves have a good size to contrast with Stormcasts, Brutes and Chaos dudes and are supposedly from the same design phase as the Melusai and Khinerai who are much larger looking thanks to tails or wings.
Horses making a comeback would make me sooo happy, especially in the quality of gryph-chargers. I'm a knight fanboy. I don't understand how they could kill Bretonnia, surely Aos crazyness plus grail pilgrims = a cathedral firing mega trebuchet protected by reliquiary knights, burning-with-mystical-fire grail knights, even more Pegasi and a giant hippogriff kit?! Sigh. Even Empire knights were killed off for demi-gryph knights. They're a cool concept with lacklustre sculpts, but having regular or - even better - updated knights would be much more to my liking.
Hippo drakes, okay, bird zebras, cool, giant uggo boars, mhm, disfigured overblinged Chaos quadrupeds, eh, I want HEAVY HORSE units.
Knights in pseudo tournament plate with a heavy fantasy Renaissance look, a combination of the ocean cloak elf with fish armour and the greatswords, drool. Or medival knights more like the Green Knight (M2O him, please GW).
I'm building an army for them. Well, I did one knight so far, my Gutrot's Reaver still need some conversions first
I'm just unsure about the army list, seeing how knights are supposedly a looot better than Blight Kings in Plague Garden I'd have to basically use Varanguard knights as sllies to represent "proper" knights and chaos knights would have to be mounted sergeants and hedge knights. Still mulling over list building.
The Avatar elf with his fish scale armour would be a goooood base for a conversion and the eels nice for fishy Pusgoyle Blightlords, btw.
Sweet look forward to seeing those! They are very characterful in the novels. I tend to agree that the maggotkin book does not really capture them.
Well, the example given is the Daughters of Khaine. And I suspect that pretty much *all* of the other elves don't get along with that particular group.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Those are some nice models. If I weren't still annoyed at them for killing off the old world, I probably would have gotten them.
If you're so mad at them still you shouldn't even be putting yourself through the ringer looking at their new product much less still voicing your disgust for the changes the company made that were for the betterment of their company. either get over it and get back in and enjoy the hobby or stop garbage posting please.
there is a difference in saying you dislike the aesthetic of the models or wishing the models included something like a giant crab (weird they wouldnt include something like that) and saying you like them but screw GW for what they did.
It may be time for you to move on to another thing.
I agree. It is probably time for you to move on from complaining about other peoples' posts.
Well, the example given is the Daughters of Khaine. And I suspect that pretty much *all* of the other elves don't get along with that particular group.
Many in the Realms are nervous or suspicious of the DoK but many more respect their skill at arms and they have proved themsleves in battle against Chaos on quite a few occasions. I suspect that opinion of indivdual Elves will vary as much as anyone else.
One Sect of the DOK are also very popular in the cities of Sigmar due to thier gladatorial exhibiitons.
The enemy of my enemty and all that - and the DoK that were attacked by the Deepkin were on thier way to assist the Sylvaneth.
I think the mention of Deepkin attacking DoK is because there's a blurb in the latter's battletome mentioning it that we already knew about. At the moment I wouldn't read too much into it.
SJM wrote: I'm out of touch with fantasy, Teclis made a whole race of people? Thought he was a highelf wizard type?
Not any more. One of the themes of AOS is the heroes of the old world becoming gods in the new, so Tyrion, Teclis, Alarielle, Malerion (Malekith) and Nagash are all gods now.
SJM wrote: I'm out of touch with fantasy, Teclis made a whole race of people? Thought he was a highelf wizard type?
Not any more. One of the themes of AOS is the heroes of the old world becoming gods in the new, so Tyrion, Teclis, Alarielle, Malerion (Malekith) and Nagash are all gods now.
Oh right, thanks for that, has Teclis gone bad? making a new race seems a bit extreme.
Nah, it had looked a necessity at the time because most of the elf race was missing. (Slaanesh consumed most of their souls, the release of which resulted in the twisted Daughters of Khaine)
So you have the fewer regular elves that settled the mortal planes but still managed to replenish their numbers and build kingdoms during the Age of Myth between Tyrion, Malerion (Malekith) and Alarielle worshippers, elves freed from Slaanesh that follow Morathi and now the Deepkin who were Teclis's attempt to make up for his diminished race at the start.
It's not too far from Alarielle and her creating Sylvaneth who are like elf substitutes that she favors for being one with nature in a way a creature of flesh and blood could never be.
Well, the example given is the Daughts of Khaine. And I suspect that pretty much *all* of the other elves don't get along with that particular group.
No doubt, even before them you had the çultist Exiles and Darkling coven that had sorceresses use their magic to enslave the minds of elves to join their army. There was even a Hammerhal facebook post that advertised a sorceress aiding the garrison with her army and a promise collecting slaves would be a low priority, the implication that she'd use elves in the city as conscripted replacements.
These things add up to the followers of Malerion to be a very unwelcome sight for elves that don't hide in shadows.
(There are nice cooperations though like the Order Draconis using the Scourge privateers to "deliver" them new mounts when they were stuck in Azyrheim. )
So I think we'll get by the Summer :
- A starter set with Nighthaunt models in it (I hope new, dedicated figures, not a set Ala Blightwar).
- A Shadespire Nighthaunt warband (almost a given, going by the Faction logo top right of the WHU teased card).
- A full Nighthaunt army, with Battletome, new Heroes like the MP story's ghast, new units like Black Coach and the "hangman" ghasts, etc. Also, lots of Rumors Engine have recently been quite "spectral". And more : the last 2 "true" AOS Death releases (i.e. The End Time : Nagash and the Knight Of Shrouds) were conceptually heavily "spectral" too. Finally there is lots of Nighthaunt / Wraith artworks in MP campaign book around the Knight Of Shourds (logical situation given its faction - also around Nagash's throne on the LoN cover).
Intriguing. Lore of light and a monster that we haven't seen yet?
Lore of Light there is nothing to suggest it and I am pretty sure Teclis and Tyrion Angel Elves will use lore of light. Also I don't think that there is another big monster kit in this release maybe alternatively turtle build. I think we will see one more kit and alternative versions of units GW already showed.
That would've been cool. On the otherhand we've seen a sky kraken in the Overlord artwork and grot sky pirates use leviathans as opposed to Orruk scrapfleets, so a kraken might be saved for a destruction release.
Intriguing. Lore of light and a monster that we haven't seen yet?
Lore of Light there is nothing to suggest it and I am pretty sure Teclis and Tyrion Angel Elves will use lore of light. Also I don't think that there is another big monster kit in this release maybe alternatively turtle build. I think we will see one more kit and alternative versions of units GW already showed.
It's still an interesting guess.
Also the fact that the pictures have that queenly looking elf appear in two of them. What's her story i wonder?
Edit: there's also the Silver Tower Mist Weaver to consider, her helm leaves her "eyeless" too. Is it a homage to blind Tyrion or is it a connection to the Deepkin?
Also the fact that the pictures have that queenly looking elf appear in two of them. What's her story i wonder?
Mage/Priest of some kind.
Edit: there's also the Silver Tower Mist Weaver to consider, her helm leaves her "eyeless" too. Is it a homage to blind Tyrion or is it a connection to the Deepkin?
Smellingsalts wrote: The other monster in this army will probably be the Dark Elf Sea Monster that was a double kit with the hydra (forgot its name).
The Kharibdyss is currently part of the Scourge Privateers faction. That could change of course, but the Dark Aelf handlers don't really match the Deepkin style. But the Privateers are on the the Daughters of Khaine's ally list(along side the Idoneth), and I wouldn't be surprised to see them on the Deepkin's either.
Crimson wrote: New edirion of AoS based on current 40K rules would be welcome. AoS has improved a lot since its inception, but lacklustre core rules are holding it back.
Don't say that out loud. Some people will kill you if you even dare to say that double-turn is a super random and not-fun mechanic!
I've never understood people's problem with the second turn. I've been playing the LotR sbg since it's inception and that's always been a core part of the mechanics and I've never seen or heard anyone complain about it. It's just always been a factor you need to consider when planning a strategy.
LOTR is a much better written and much more "complex" set of rules than AoS. Also with "heroic movement" the other guy still can react, you also cant win initiative more than 3 times (unless that rule changed from the original 3)
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Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Of course it does. Otherwise you could never have had Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings or any army based on spell animation or manipulation. Because the enemy could just "dispel it first".
In a fair amount of books, that is exactly how the enemy to those armies won, they dispelled the force.
dogfender wrote: Im curious what the aelves from ulgu will end up looking like now..
They have shadow daemons dont they? Then again morathii used them too but arent in their book..
also curious why some sort of crustacean wasn't used for a large land mount?
The sculptor was too crabby.
No! Bad poster!
That pun was ripe for the telling, to clam up then would have been cray.
Crimson wrote: New edirion of AoS based on current 40K rules would be welcome. AoS has improved a lot since its inception, but lacklustre core rules are holding it back.
Don't say that out loud. Some people will kill you if you even dare to say that double-turn is a super random and not-fun mechanic!
I've never understood people's problem with the second turn. I've been playing the LotR sbg since it's inception and that's always been a core part of the mechanics and I've never seen or heard anyone complain about it. It's just always been a factor you need to consider when planning a strategy.
LOTR is a much better written and much more "complex" set of rules than AoS. Also with "heroic movement" the other guy still can react, you also cant win initiative more than 3 times (unless that rule changed from the original 3)
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Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Of course it does. Otherwise you could never have had Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings or any army based on spell animation or manipulation. Because the enemy could just "dispel it first".
In a fair amount of books, that is exactly how the enemy to those armies won, they dispelled the force.
dogfender wrote: Im curious what the aelves from ulgu will end up looking like now..
They have shadow daemons dont they? Then again morathii used them too but arent in their book..
also curious why some sort of crustacean wasn't used for a large land mount?
The sculptor was too crabby.
No! Bad poster!
That pun was ripe for the telling, to clam up then would have been cray.
you sir are the devil
Perhaps. His insistence on using puns sure is fishy. It may not be on porpoise though, so we will have to make shore.
Smellingsalts wrote: The other monster in this army will probably be the Dark Elf Sea Monster that was a double kit with the hydra (forgot its name).
Kharibdyss is in the Scourge Privateers army list.
Not every army has a monster or multiple monsters. You're looking at probably two variant builds on the Sea Turtle's howdah and maybe two different hero/monster options for the Sea Unicorn of Doom.
Crimson wrote: New edirion of AoS based on current 40K rules would be welcome. AoS has improved a lot since its inception, but lacklustre core rules are holding it back.
Don't say that out loud. Some people will kill you if you even dare to say that double-turn is a super random and not-fun mechanic!
I've never understood people's problem with the second turn. I've been playing the LotR sbg since it's inception and that's always been a core part of the mechanics and I've never seen or heard anyone complain about it. It's just always been a factor you need to consider when planning a strategy.
LOTR is a much better written and much more "complex" set of rules than AoS. Also with "heroic movement" the other guy still can react, you also cant win initiative more than 3 times (unless that rule changed from the original 3)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Of course it does. Otherwise you could never have had Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings or any army based on spell animation or manipulation. Because the enemy could just "dispel it first".
In a fair amount of books, that is exactly how the enemy to those armies won, they dispelled the force.
dogfender wrote: Im curious what the aelves from ulgu will end up looking like now..
They have shadow daemons dont they? Then again morathii used them too but arent in their book..
also curious why some sort of crustacean wasn't used for a large land mount?
The sculptor was too crabby.
No! Bad poster!
That pun was ripe for the telling, to clam up then would have been cray.
you sir are the devil
Perhaps. His insistence on using puns sure is fishy. It may not be on porpoise though, so we will have to make shore.
Smellingsalts wrote: The other monster in this army will probably be the Dark Elf Sea Monster that was a double kit with the hydra (forgot its name).
Kharibdyss is in the Scourge Privateers army list.
Not every army has a monster or multiple monsters. You're looking at probably two variant builds on the Sea Turtle's howdah and maybe two different hero/monster options for the Sea Unicorn of Doom.
They said in the seminar (from reports, I wasn't there) that there's 4 builds for the Turtle, and yeah I think there's at least 2 builds for the Sea Unicorn (there's art of it with a different rider to the model we've seen). So yeah thats 6 monster builds already.
Smellingsalts wrote: The other monster in this army will probably be the Dark Elf Sea Monster that was a double kit with the hydra (forgot its name).
Kharibdyss is in the Scourge Privateers army list.
Not every army has a monster or multiple monsters. You're looking at probably two variant builds on the Sea Turtle's howdah and maybe two different hero/monster options for the Sea Unicorn of Doom.
They said in the seminar (from reports, I wasn't there) that there's 4 builds for the Turtle, and yeah I think there's at least 2 builds for the Sea Unicorn (there's art of it with a different rider to the model we've seen). So yeah thats 6 monster builds already.
The Facebook Live preview they did right after the seminar can be found HERE. I haven't listened to the whole thing, but it might give a few more details on how many units/kits to expect.
In a fair amount of books, that is exactly how the enemy to those armies won, they dispelled the force.
That's true and I wouldn't be surprised at a novel finally throwing a reversed situation at Order with a commander striking a deal with the Deepkin to make a flank attack only to get pulled into a trap by a sorceror coven and end up high and dry in the middle of the army.
Teclis' succeeded second attempt of "Angelic" Aelves.
Oooh, first time I'm hearing about that.
Well looking at how heavily Greek inspired the aelves are(medusa/Ares, furies and now Poseidon) I looked if angels were in it and indeed they are along with why images depict them with wings:
I would say they look like the mash up of atlanteans (the cavalry mostly) and chinese, something most obvious the female hero and the dragon lord (that is almost a dao and look at the clothing!).
Oh indeed but i'm just going off a possible theme. At least some of the warriors look like spartans and a Poseidon influence would account for why they're so unpredictable as he was. (If you count Malerion as Hades and Alarielle as Athena besides the Norse goddess resemblance then there can be a theme gleamed from them as well why such gods of Order aren't wholly benevolent, Greek gods were jerks )
These AOS releases keep getting better. At this point, I’m really debating either staying in 40k (and meshing some of these bits into my growing Dark Eldar) or switch over to AOS to get these guys and the Kharadon Overlords).
Haha, why not roll with the Dark Eldar bits idea and make them enslavers of a water covered planet with interchangeable troops that you can bring out vehicles for 40k and the sea beasts for AoS?
Of course if the fantasy to sci-fi troops prove too hard to make interchangeable then maybe go reversed with sea beasts that can be proxied as vehicles on a water world with some tech upgrades on them to make them 40k-like (the tech in AoS can be handwaved as gifts from your possible Overlord force)
Further proof Slaanesh is going to break free at the end of Malign Portents
Probably my favorite Malign Portents short story too.
Quite a few implications that the gods fighting on the side of Order are as divided* as the Chaos gods, and on the brink of a falling out should certain secrets become known to all parties involved.
*Which we knew, as the Pantheon fell apart well before the Age of Chaos, but the revelation in this story that the Gladiatorum, gifted to Sigmar by Malerion so that the Stormcast could practice training has a more sinister, unsaid purpose is pretty dark.
If MP comes to a big Death reveal this summer with AOS 2.0, starter set Nighthaunt vs Stormcast, and Souls war by Josh Reynolds, then it could indeed directly lead to the "end of the year Slaanesh" rumors we get more and more often these days.
Yes, please. Can not wait for my Slaanesh goodies. GW: please give me a Merry Christmas with a KoS in plastic, Azazel the Daemon Prince, hated “brother” to Sigmar himself, and plastic fiends. Kickass mortal units as well would be great. Oh, and Fulgrim. Because “why not”.
I seriously hope that there's a regular cavalry version of that not just a hero
edit - ahh 3rd picture added to your post. Great looking hero character and huge raptor-sea-horse! Shame there's no cav version but the model certainly does the art justice (indeed the beast is far bigger in the model)
I'd say a week later - if pre order is on the 14th then I'd wager GW will pre release hints and such in the week leading up to that. So not next week but the week after
Yeah. Still bright yellow like imperial fists. I don't know why they decided to paint black orcs yellow, instead of painting them black or dark silver. From a distance they really look more like Imperial Fists to me.
Yeah. Still bright yellow like imperial fists. I don't know why they decided to paint black orcs yellow, instead of painting them black or dark silver.
From a distance they really look more like Imperial Fists to me.
You mean why did they paint them yellow like the 40K Bad Moonz?
Yeah. Still bright yellow like imperial fists. I don't know why they decided to paint black orcs yellow, instead of painting them black or dark silver. From a distance they really look more like Imperial Fists to me.
You mean why did they paint them yellow like the 40K Bad Moonz?
Bad Moonz aren't as bulky or heavily armored though, so you can see that they are orks. From a distance, orruks look a lot like imperial fists. I think it would have been better if they used a darker shade or added more details instead of just yellow.
I can see where Cthulhu spybis coming from- at a quick glance all you see is blocky, chunky, hunched over blob of yellow weildind oversized weapons. Which does fit the classic space marine vibe in my book.
I like that they are aquatic and the character on the seahorse and on the wave are fantastic minis.
Tortoise on the other hand... It`s ok by itself and the the crew nest also looks good by itself, but they mix like hot dogs and chocolate sauce. Looks like a conversion made from 2 completely different kits.
Eel riders look great - eels themselves - meh
Infantry is the most dissapointing for me - They look too angly to me, which is probably "CAD sideffect disease" - some designs are touched by it. others are more lucky.
The banner character is waaaay to stylised/cartoony
Squid Dude - love the concept, BUT I wish it was executed in the Festus/Sigvald/Valkia_the_bloody sculpting style
The overall trend of Every new army release having these "bigger and better and more dynamic and crazier than ever" minis is a bit tiresome.
Has there been any word on if either of the two Silver Tower Aelfs are part of this faction? Some of the Turtle crew have very similar masks to the Mist weaver.
Chopstick wrote: Those are literally the same Ironjaws Ardboys they use to showcase on their webstore...
The tonka truck paint scheme is still ridiculous, people were talking about that when Ironjawz came out.
Subtlety isn't something one thinks of in regards to Ironjawz. They're loud and proud and their colours show their enemies exactly who's bashing them into the ground.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I'll be honest- I don't like the direction new kits tooks after age of sigmar started, and it tainted the whole range for me :(
I think the Iron jaws were meant to be the evolution of the 'Black Orc' elements of the Classic orc force. I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing a faction which centers around the 'Savage Orcs' at some point. I'm wondering if they'll pair them more with the Forrest/Jungle Goblins somewhat more though.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I'll be honest- I don't like the direction new kits tooks after age of sigmar started, and it tainted the whole range for me :(
I think the Iron jaws were meant to be the evolution of the 'Black Orc' elements of the Classic orc force. I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing a faction which centers around the 'Savage Orcs' at some point. I'm wondering if they'll pair them more with the Forrest/Jungle Goblins somewhat more though.
That's called the "Bonesplitterz" and it doesn't have the Grots in there.
Yeah, they can't ally with Spider Grots because they'll slaughter all the spiders.
To the Bonesplitterz everything on four or more legs is a Waaagh pinata.
Edit: also i'll agree I wish they went with a subdued yellow on the main Ironjawz but at least it does match up with their prosperity mirroring the Dark Moonz and it's explained they're just aping the Stormcast.
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Kanluwen wrote: Goddang, that Avatar of Mathlann is prettier in its second build format.
Also: rules!
Spoiler:
Status markers are: Inspiring Presence, Low Tide, High Tide, Ritual of Erosion, Ritual of the Storm, and Lord of the Tide.
Avatar of Mathlaan Rules
1st ability- Reroll 1 to Hit and +1 Damage on the spear if you charge. Heal D3 damage after the charge. And you can charge even after retreat.
Second ability : reroll Wound roll of 1 for units within 9".
Last one : at the start of Combat phase you can debuff a Hero within 3" if he has a Wound carac less than 8 -> -1 to Hit till the end of Combat phase.
Surprised this isn't getting more discussion.
Those abilities look good and i'm interested in what the tides will do.
Also interesting note someone made at War of Sigmar, the designers want all the aelven gods to be eye-level with Alarielle.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I'll be honest- I don't like the direction new kits tooks after age of sigmar started, and it tainted the whole range for me :(
I think the Iron jaws were meant to be the evolution of the 'Black Orc' elements of the Classic orc force. I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing a faction which centers around the 'Savage Orcs' at some point. I'm wondering if they'll pair them more with the Forrest/Jungle Goblins somewhat more though.
As Kan mentioned, that is literally the Bonesplitterz battletome that has been out for over a year.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Of course it does. Otherwise you could never have had Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings or any army based on spell animation or manipulation. Because the enemy could just "dispel it first".
In a fair amount of books, that is exactly how the enemy to those armies won, they dispelled the force.
dogfender wrote: Im curious what the aelves from ulgu will end up looking like now..
They have shadow daemons dont they? Then again morathii used them too but arent in their book..
also curious why some sort of crustacean wasn't used for a large land mount?
The sculptor was too crabby.
No! Bad poster!
That pun was ripe for the telling, to clam up then would have been cray.
4 terrain bundles for (according to leaker) november.
4 sylvaneth wyldwoods. Roughly 16% added value.
Ruined/Desolated (cannot remember the exact name) township. 104 euros for 6 azyrite ruins ans one objective set.
The 40k ones are a bunch of the crates and 2 cranes and ferratomic stuff.
Well, that's interesting but a bit disappointing.
I really was hoping that this summer we would start to see new scenery for AOS that aren't Chaos or Ruins, but Stormkeeps, or something to represent Order Free Cities.
4 terrain bundles for (according to leaker) november.
4 sylvaneth wyldwoods. Roughly 16% added value.
Ruined/Desolated (cannot remember the exact name) township. 104 euros for 6 azyrite ruins ans one objective set.
The 40k ones are a bunch of the crates and 2 cranes and ferratomic stuff.
Well, that's interesting but a bit disappointing.
I really was hoping that this summer we would start to see new scenery for AOS that aren't Chaos or Ruins, but Stormkeeps, or something to represent Order Free Cities.
We'll see...
This is not a leak exactly. You can see all the bundles on faeit. The info was sent out by GW to gauge demand before November. It does not contain anything new. The 40k scenery we know is coming is not included in the deals for example.
4 terrain bundles for (according to leaker) november.
4 sylvaneth wyldwoods. Roughly 16% added value.
Ruined/Desolated (cannot remember the exact name) township. 104 euros for 6 azyrite ruins ans one objective set.
The 40k ones are a bunch of the crates and 2 cranes and ferratomic stuff.
Well, that's interesting but a bit disappointing.
I really was hoping that this summer we would start to see new scenery for AOS that aren't Chaos or Ruins, but Stormkeeps, or something to represent Order Free Cities.
Looking at these models, I realize that I'm excited for about half of them. The eel and shark riders, the turtles, some of the leaders and the giant seahorse, but the base troops I'm not thrilled about. They'll probably be the battleline, but I'm really hoping that you can make the eel riders battleline through some other means, since I'd rather build/paint/play with those.
Interested to see how they handle the Deepkin's interactions with the rest of there grand alliance. So far all the official background seems to have been about them attacking other order factions.
Hulksmash wrote: Yeah, I think they missed an opportunity to make an elf destruction army. Which would have been fantastic.
A faction that’s in destruction but wouldn’t ally with them?
I think a neutral place for certain armies would be better.
I'd just like to see certain factions as allyable cross-alliance. Let Freeguild ally in Maneaters, let Slaves to Darkness ally in Fyreslayers, etc. Of course letting the mercenary factions ally anywhere within their own alliance would be a good start. Maybe they could introduce a semi-ally status where only units that are not named or behemoth can be allied in. So Slaves could ally in Fyreslayer infantry and on-foot heroes but no magmadroths, for example.
Yeah, a mercenary alliance trait would be great and bring back the early days of AoS when anything went and people could make amazing combined forces and matching conversions.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Interested to see how they handle the Deepkin's interactions with the rest of there grand alliance. So far all the official background seems to have been about them attacking other order factions.
I imagine it'll be like dealing with the sea, at times calm and reasonable but can unexpectedly go violent and stormy with dangers lurking beneath the waves constantly.
So probably a unpredictable ally you need to keep your eye on but can be a priceless asset in both war and controlling the seas for trade and lost treasure/relics from the Age of Myth.
Baron Klatz wrote: Yeah, a mercenary alliance trait would be great and bring back the early days of AoS when anything went and people could make amazing combined forces and matching conversions.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Interested to see how they handle the Deepkin's interactions with the rest of there grand alliance. So far all the official background seems to have been about them attacking other order factions.
I imagine it'll be like dealing with the sea, at times calm and reasonable but can unexpectedly go violent and stormy with dangers lurking beneath the waves constantly.
So probably a unpredictable ally you need to keep your eye on but can be a priceless asset in both war and controlling the seas for trade and lost treasure/relics from the Age of Myth.
Hulksmash wrote: Yeah, I think they missed an opportunity to make an elf destruction army. Which would have been fantastic.
A faction that’s in destruction but wouldn’t ally with them?
I think a neutral place for certain armies would be better.
I'd just like to see certain factions as allyable cross-alliance. Let Freeguild ally in Maneaters, let Slaves to Darkness ally in Fyreslayers, etc. Of course letting the mercenary factions ally anywhere within their own alliance would be a good start. Maybe they could introduce a semi-ally status where only units that are not named or behemoth can be allied in. So Slaves could ally in Fyreslayer infantry and on-foot heroes but no magmadroths, for example.
They talked about Fyreslayers having worked for Chaos forces at one point during the time before the Realmgate Wars but ceasing to do so since the Chaos forces never actually kept up their end of the bargains.
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Wave Dude looks amazing, but I'll bet he's an absolute pain in the backside to assemble.
You'd be amazed at how simple some of these kits end up being once you get your hands on them.
To be honest most GW kits are pretty simple to put together. Indeed assembly itself is normally one of the most easy parts of the hobby.
Cleaning up the parts; deciding to part assemble so that it makes painting easier; painting etc...... these are all things that are often more complicated. But the actual assembly is very easy. Esp today when its either finecast or (mostly) plastic. It was a bit trickier in the older days with a lot of metal as you often had to pin many joints to get a solid assembly that wouldn't have weak points.
I've got White Dwarf and there are only dates in there for the book and cards - nothing about dates/prices of the kits. Preorder book only in week 1? Seems a bit weird.
Knight wrote: The lore for these guys and girls is striking all the right strings with me. The diabolical octopus in the background is just sweet cheery.
Yeah the art is looking pretty solid for this book so far. Any signs that the mistweaver might be included in this army? I still have that model from silver tower and need an excuse to paint it. Her aesthetic kind of fits in with this army...hmm.
Knight wrote: The lore for these guys and girls is striking all the right strings with me. The diabolical octopus in the background is just sweet cheery.
I was really excited about this release, I am a massive fan of atlantian/aquatic mythos, but the initial tease failed to grab me. Some of its cool but some of it is a bit meh. Saying that this little snippet has 2 things in it that I have my hopes up again. The shark and the giant leviathan/kraken tease, if they are just lore and not models I will be very disappointed and this be a no go for me. If they are done right then I may dip,into AOS after all this time.
Knight wrote: The lore for these guys and girls is striking all the right strings with me. The diabolical octopus in the background is just sweet cheery.
Spoiler:
I was really excited about this release, I am a massive fan of atlantian/aquatic mythos, but the initial tease failed to grab me. Some of its cool but some of it is a bit meh. Saying that this little snippet has 2 things in it that I have my hopes up again. The shark and the giant leviathan/kraken tease, if they are just lore and not models I will be very disappointed and this be a no go for me. If they are done right then I may dip,into AOS after all this time.
The shark is a model, that we’ve seen in the trailer. What leviathan/kraken tease?
The leviathan is the big turtle. Don't expect to see much more of these, it's a big enough release as it is.
A whole slew of different heroes. Hero on seahorse. Avatar of the sea god, eel riders, shark riders, infantry with different weapons and giant turtle. Oh and a scenery kit.
Knight wrote: The lore for these guys and girls is striking all the right strings with me. The diabolical octopus in the background is just sweet cheery.
Spoiler:
I was really excited about this release, I am a massive fan of atlantian/aquatic mythos, but the initial tease failed to grab me. Some of its cool but some of it is a bit meh. Saying that this little snippet has 2 things in it that I have my hopes up again. The shark and the giant leviathan/kraken tease, if they are just lore and not models I will be very disappointed and this be a no go for me. If they are done right then I may dip,into AOS after all this time.
The shark is a model, that we’ve seen in the trailer. What leviathan/kraken tease?
I went back to the video and rewatched, yeah that model doesn’t look as cool as the art. The artwork has some text at the tail end of the turtle that references a “Leviadon” but all you can see is a couple of tentacles
Knight wrote: The lore for these guys and girls is striking all the right strings with me. The diabolical octopus in the background is just sweet cheery.
Spoiler:
I was really excited about this release, I am a massive fan of atlantian/aquatic mythos, but the initial tease failed to grab me. Some of its cool but some of it is a bit meh. Saying that this little snippet has 2 things in it that I have my hopes up again. The shark and the giant leviathan/kraken tease, if they are just lore and not models I will be very disappointed and this be a no go for me. If they are done right then I may dip,into AOS after all this time.
The shark is a model, that we’ve seen in the trailer. What leviathan/kraken tease?
I went back to the video and rewatched, yeah that model doesn’t look as cool as the art. The artwork has some text at the tail end of the turtle that references a “Leviadon” but all you can see is a couple of tentacles
Boss Salvage wrote: I think I like the infantry? Strong echoes of the Electropriest sculpts / sculptor, which isn't necessarily bad, I dig the warskirt + shirtless combo.
We haven't seen prices, right? Totally going to come down to that for me, knowing how other Elf infantry have been priced / boxed.
- Salvage
We haven't seen prices or dates as far as I've found.
Elf stuff can be a crapshoot. I'd expect things to be okay priced though.
Guessing something like $60-$70 for the turtle, $60 for the weird fish-mounted lord, $50 or so for the eel riders, $40 for a set of 10 infantry, $25 for the various character blisters($30 for the guy with octopus since he's named apparently), $50-$60 for the Mathlann Avatar, $30-$35 for the shipwreck scenery, and $30-$40 for the shark riders.
Knight wrote: The lore for these guys and girls is striking all the right strings with me. The diabolical octopus in the background is just sweet cheery.
Spoiler:
I was really excited about this release, I am a massive fan of atlantian/aquatic mythos, but the initial tease failed to grab me. Some of its cool but some of it is a bit meh. Saying that this little snippet has 2 things in it that I have my hopes up again. The shark and the giant leviathan/kraken tease, if they are just lore and not models I will be very disappointed and this be a no go for me. If they are done right then I may dip,into AOS after all this time.
The shark is a model, that we’ve seen in the trailer. What leviathan/kraken tease?
I went back to the video and rewatched, yeah that model doesn’t look as cool as the art. The artwork has some text at the tail end of the turtle that references a “Leviadon” but all you can see is a couple of tentacles
The Leviadon is the turtle.
Yup I missed that, guess I will just keep waiting then eventually I am sure something will tempt me.
Boss Salvage wrote: I think I like the infantry? Strong echoes of the Electropriest sculpts / sculptor, which isn't necessarily bad, I dig the warskirt + shirtless combo.
We haven't seen prices, right? Totally going to come down to that for me, knowing how other Elf infantry have been priced / boxed.
- Salvage
We haven't seen prices or dates as far as I've found.
Elf stuff can be a crapshoot. I'd expect things to be okay priced though.
Guessing something like $60-$70 for the turtle, $60 for the weird fish-mounted lord, $50 or so for the eel riders, $40 for a set of 10 infantry, $25 for the various character blisters($30 for the guy with octopus since he's named apparently), $50-$60 for the Mathlann Avatar, $30-$35 for the shipwreck scenery, and $30-$40 for the shark riders.
Are those in USD? I'm thinking closer to 100+ for the turtle, 70-80 for the deepmare (seahorse) rider, 50-ish for the eel riders and 50 for the namarti, along with 30 each for the characters (45 for the octopus guy). Then 70-80 fr the Eidolon of Mathlann and probably 40 for 1 shark.
Boss Salvage wrote: I think I like the infantry? Strong echoes of the Electropriest sculpts / sculptor, which isn't necessarily bad, I dig the warskirt + shirtless combo.
We haven't seen prices, right? Totally going to come down to that for me, knowing how other Elf infantry have been priced / boxed.
- Salvage
We haven't seen prices or dates as far as I've found.
Elf stuff can be a crapshoot. I'd expect things to be okay priced though. Guessing something like $60-$70 for the turtle, $60 for the weird fish-mounted lord, $50 or so for the eel riders, $40 for a set of 10 infantry, $25 for the various character blisters($30 for the guy with octopus since he's named apparently), $50-$60 for the Mathlann Avatar, $30-$35 for the shipwreck scenery, and $30-$40 for the shark riders.
Are those in USD? I'm thinking closer to 100+ for the turtle, 70-80 for the deepmare (seahorse) rider, 50-ish for the eel riders and 50 for the namarti, along with 30 each for the characters (45 for the octopus guy). Then 70-80 fr the Eidolon of Mathlann and probably 40 for 1 shark.
It's really going to depend upon what prices they decide to do(Obviously--but sometimes they go reasonable, sometimes they go crazy). I'm going at this with the idea that they've learned from past mistakes(Fyreslayers, Sylvaneth, and Stormcast) and instead going off some more successful prices (Tzeentch Arcanites and Blades of Khorne).
I would be genuinely surprised to see the Namarti(either the skirmishers or the thralls; they're two separate kits) at $50. Sylvaneth's Spite/Tree Revenants at $37 for 5 did not seem to go over too well, nor did the 5 Auric/Hearthguard Berzerkers at $40 or the Fyreslayer characters at $30 each or Stormcast characters at $36 each.
Eel Riders I'm hedging my bets towards them being at $35 for 3 if I'm going to be honest. Avatar at $50-$60 because they're apparently able to be taken in multiples within the army and I'd compare them, relatively in terms of size, to the Grundstok Gunhaulers. Turtle I'd put at closer to $80-$90 in an afterthought and I'm staying roughly firm on that Deepmare rider at $60(puts it in line with Drycha), Shark Riders might be a bit more than I expect but since it seems to be a single "unit" per box, I'm gonna stick with my guns on the $30-$40.
Knight wrote: The lore for these guys and girls is striking all the right strings with me. The diabolical octopus in the background is just sweet cheery.
I was really excited about this release, I am a massive fan of atlantian/aquatic mythos, but the initial tease failed to grab me. Some of its cool but some of it is a bit meh. Saying that this little snippet has 2 things in it that I have my hopes up again. The shark and the giant leviathan/kraken tease, if they are just lore and not models I will be very disappointed and this be a no go for me. If they are done right then I may dip,into AOS after all this time.
What are you talking about? We've already seen the models for every single unit in the pic you posted. You're about 3 weeks behind the curve friend.
As it was with the DoK, the prices will make or break this release for me. 40-45 bucks for a ten man battleline unit is okay, but push it towards 60 or over and I feel like i'm really not getting my moneys worth in models (looking at you witch aelves). This could end up being my first venture into regular AoS instead of Shadespire but we'll see if GW stumbles on the basic unit prices again.
Gotta say though, kinda hoping the shark has an alternate hammerhead build...or another head option so not every one is a duplicate.
Witch elves were at a kind of nuts price before DoK came out and they basically just kept their price. The bonus is that the cauldron and elves kit is still up for sale (back in stock on the GW website uk at last) and with all the combos and heros you get in the cauldron it actually works out a lot cheaper than many other armies (if you assume at least around £10 for a single hero and the cauldron comes with several)
Overread wrote: Witch elves were at a kind of nuts price before DoK came out and they basically just kept their price. The bonus is that the cauldron and elves kit is still up for sale (back in stock on the GW website uk at last) and with all the combos and heros you get in the cauldron it actually works out a lot cheaper than many other armies (if you assume at least around £10 for a single hero and the cauldron comes with several)
The Cauldron + Elves kit is indeed great value, but the problem is you need way more Witch Elves than you need Cauldrons + heroes. At the very least you need three units of Witch Aelves to fill your battleline (and possible way more to get good sized units), but three Cauldrons is overkill.
A Start Collecting would be great, but all the heros are on the Cauldron sprue, so they can't really make a SC box with Witch Aelves, some Melusai or Khinerai + a hero (not that they usually put one out so early after the release anyway).
Black Library just posted a bunch of new book covers on twitter, including one that essentially confirms the new starter set being between wizard stormcast and nighthaunts. Soulwars by Josh Reynolds.
Hbbyaddict wrote: Black Library just posted a bunch of new book covers on twitter, including one that essentially confirms the new starter set being between wizard stormcast and nighthaunts. Soulwars by Josh Reynolds.
Link? I'm not seeing them anywhere.
Okay yeah. It's NOT Black Library posting them. It's "Black Librarium--an unofficial French fansite".
Hbbyaddict wrote: Black Library just posted a bunch of new book covers on twitter, including one that essentially confirms the new starter set being between wizard stormcast and nighthaunts. Soulwars by Josh Reynolds.
"Confirm" is probably hasty, but it fits with the rumours and with the next shadespire warbands. Brand new stormcast on the front at the very least confirms that another chamber is going to be released sooni-ish.
The synopsis for the silver breaker (breaker of the silver shard, shard breaker?) seems to hint on a nice action story. The aelf is described as a treasure hunter, neat.
Knight wrote: The synopsis for the silver breaker (breaker of the silver shard, shard breaker?) seems to hint on a nice action story. The aelf is described as a treasure hunter, neat.
The novel was teased at the last Black Library week ender and is called in English IIRC : "Cannis and Toll : Silvershard". It's a sequel trilogy for City Of Secrets, by Nick Horth.
He is one of the only "pure" AOS-era artists (as far as I can tell) that I really like.
He has done artworks like the Legions Of Nagash cover, lots of cool stuff in Malign Portents, and for Shadow over Hammerhal and Firestorm ; so he is interested in the Cities of Sigmar - I hope we'll get new Cities Of Order scenery this summer !
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Apparently, the pics are sourced from the German Amazon site - so they do seem legit, rather than fan efforts.
The "fan" comment I made was less about them being fakes and more about the fact that it seems Black Library has no official Twitter account that I can find.
HorticulusDK wrote: The novel was teased at the last Black Library week ender and is called in English IIRC : "Cannis and Toll : Silvershard". It's a sequel trilogy for City Of Secrets, by Nick Horth.
Still haven't gotten to it. Have Fyreslayer, Overlords and Nagash to go through. It's in the plan, like most of my AoS projects.
Here's hoping there will be a decent amount of female models in the mix, given the amount of time GW have had to prepare for this chamber. They certainly seem to starting to do well in this regard, with the Idoneth base troopers and Van saar gang...
Interesting that they've got darker colored armor as the golden Stormcasts are all we ever seem to see on the covers of books.
A new starter should make for an interesting summer!
Black armor with Red and Gold trim makes them look more like Anvils of the Heldenhammer (my boiz), who are all drawn from Shyish and play an active role in the Realm of Death. It would make sense for them to be the focus of the story instead of Hammers of Sigmar.
Clockpunk wrote: Here's hoping there will be a decent amount of female models in the mix, given the amount of time GW have had to prepare for this chamber. They certainly seem to starting to do well in this regard, with the Idoneth base troopers and Van Orlock gang...
Fingers crossed for that as well myself, and not just on the Stormcast side either.
If it is a new starter box I hope that means the units that are still exclusive to the current set will get stand alone releases as well.
Knight wrote: The synopsis for the silver breaker (breaker of the silver shard, shard breaker?) seems to hint on a nice action story. The aelf is described as a treasure hunter, neat.
The novel was teased at the last Black Library week ender and is called in English IIRC : "Cannis and Toll : Silvershard". It's a sequel trilogy for City Of Secrets, by Nick Horth.
He is one of the only "pure" AOS-era artists (as far as I can tell) that I really like.
He has done artworks like the Legions Of Nagash cover, lots of cool stuff in Malign Portents, and for Shadow over Hammerhal and Firestorm ; so he is interested in the Cities of Sigmar - I hope we'll get new Cities Of Order scenery this summer !
Thank you, I had no idea who made such incredible art and wow, oh wow, Never saw many of the Slaanesh art since it's for the 8th edition codex. They are freakin' beautiful
Whoa, bro is good. Strong echoes of Adrian Smith - and looking at it, I have definitely assumed some of Sid's work was Smith's. Bravo and now I'mma hunt him down on Insta.
Whoa, bro is good. Strong echoes of Adrian Smith - and looking at it, I have definitely assumed some of Sid's work was Smith's. Bravo and now I'mma hunt him down on Insta.
- Salvage
Wow... He's not just good, he's book cover good. He's got the Disciples of Tzeentch cover art in there.
I'm currently reading it and will be adding to this posting.
First note: The "Tides of Death"
Spoiler:
The Idoneth Deepkins’ link to the sea is further represented by Tides of Death – a powerful new mechanic somewhere between the Maggotkin of Nurgle’s Cycle of Corruption and the Blood Rites of the Daughters of Khaine. Each battle round, your Idoneth Deepkin army will receive a different bonus rewarding a specific type of play – the strongest armies will be those with balanced forces capable of making the most use of every step. With Tides of Death, an Idoneth Deepkin army will start defensively, before quickly advancing on the enemy. Manage to get your best units into combat on round 3, and you’ll be able to take maximum advantage of High Tide – a devastating turn where all your units fight first in combat! Following this, you’ll be able to retreat before either re-engaging or picking off enemy units with ranged attacks.
Tides of Death makes playing with and against Idoneth Deepkin both challenging and rewarding. While powerful, your opponent will know exactly when High Tide is coming, and in the first two turns, you’ll have to work hard to stop their efforts to counter it.
Dang that shipwreck terrain is big. This range looks so good Just a few units and characters to use as ally's wouldn't count as starting a new army would it?
Wow that is a seriously cool pair of allegiance abilities. Front that I can see that Idoneth will be an army very receptive to having a skilled player at the helm. But even more so this looks like an army that will crush unskilled players very hard. I anticipate a lot of ragequit opponents and internet complaining in this army's future.
Soulrender is simply cool and not even souls of the Skaven are beneath the Cythai. Highly tempted by this army, if there'd only be a time frame for the Hysh elves.
Those are incredible abilities. Holy crap! Really need to see how they are costed/what synergy abilities are granted the best shooting defense in game. Yikes!
I like that they are elves that hate and are hated by elves. Reminds me a bit of Falmer from TES.
That Forgotten Nightmares rule sounds interesting lorewise. It does give them a bit of a lovecraftian element, though I still would have preferred it if they had gone fishmen instead of point-eared.
The Tides of Death is another interesting little mechanic. I can see it giving a certain rhythm to the army's playstyle, which might be fun to play around.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I like that they are elves that hate and are hated by elves. Reminds me a bit of Falmer from TES.
That Forgotten Nightmares rule sounds interesting lorewise. It does give them a bit of a lovecraftian element, though I still would have preferred it if they had gone fishmen instead of point-eared.
The Tides of Death is another interesting little mechanic. I can see it giving a certain rhythm to the army's playstyle, which might be fun to play around.
The good news for opponents is that you'll know when it's coming, so you can plan for it.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I like that they are elves that hate and are hated by elves. Reminds me a bit of Falmer from TES.
That Forgotten Nightmares rule sounds interesting lorewise. It does give them a bit of a lovecraftian element, though I still would have preferred it if they had gone fishmen instead of point-eared.
The Tides of Death is another interesting little mechanic. I can see it giving a certain rhythm to the army's playstyle, which might be fun to play around.
The good news for opponents is that you'll know when it's coming, so you can plan for it.
That is also a neat bit of game design, yes. The Idondeth player also has to plan for it, as if he's not in the right position by turn 3, he'll miss the opportunity. I can see this army being tricky to play at first, but once you know what you're doing you can pull some nasty stuff of.
Thing is, with the great move they'll surely have (even the on-foot Namarti), the Idoneth will be able to assault almost where and who they want on turn 2/3...
I can't wait to fight them ! If I hadn't my Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle army to finish I would start them right now
I love these rules! They're not cumulative like the Daughters of Khaine, so in a way there's less to remember. It's more about the rhythm of the battle than anything else. I can see this working a lot better for larger armies (as smaller forces can get overwhelmed in certain matchups). Larger games also have a better chance to get to turn 5 and beyond, at least in my experience.
Can't wait to see what the rest of the army does! According to some pics, it looks like the flying Sharks will have two different kinds of mounted weapons!
Thebiggesthat wrote: Some very powerful abilities. I have it from someone involved in the playtested that these guys are ridiculously good anyway
While it's all in the point costs ultimately, I can see this being an issue along the lines of Tzeentch. What really imbalances Tzeentch as an army is that units with a reasonable point costs become overpowered in the context of the extremely strong set of allegiance abilities. However, part of that is Tzeentch really has to trade very little to get those benefits since there's no major battlefield roles left out. Light/heavy infantry, light/heavy cavalry, shooting, mobility, support, obviously tons of magic. Tzeentch doesn't have a decent selection of durable infantry or potent close-combat characters but realistically when taking allegiance the army doesn't give up anything it would have had without that restriction. Since the foundation of army-specific allegiance is that the abilities are stronger at the cost of losing out on options once can see the fundamental problem. Idoneth, on the other hand, don't have this. Without the warscrolls it is difficult to judge but it's possible that such strong allegiance abilities counterbalance a unit selection that is very limited in what it could do otherwise. Kharadrons are a decent example of this, their allegiance abilities are incredibly strong but the price in unit selection is also very high. Imagine how ridiculously OP they would be if they could transport stormcast paladins in their ships or take freeguild guard as their battleline, just as random examples. They can't, and that's the point.
But all of that is just a long complex way of saying; we'll see and whine about Tzeentch.
natweb wrote: In the artwork there is a giant octopus/kraken thing attacking the skaven
its probably a fluff only thing, like the massive skyships in some of the Kharadron artwork. That said, I'd love to be proven wrong.
It's this image:
Without better perspective/seeing the picture in the flesh--it might just be the thing that guards the Soul Accountant.
Apparently this is week one's releases:
As you say without perspective it is hard to know how big it is supposed to be, and also GW have artwork of ships in the Khardron book that are not available as model. On the other hand on Facebook a GW store manager named Octarian Warkrakens in a comment on one of the announcements, so, who knows?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I like that they are elves that hate and are hated by elves. Reminds me a bit of Falmer from TES.
That Forgotten Nightmares rule sounds interesting lorewise. It does give them a bit of a lovecraftian element, though I still would have preferred it if they had gone fishmen instead of point-eared.
The Tides of Death is another interesting little mechanic. I can see it giving a certain rhythm to the army's playstyle, which might be fun to play around.
The good news for opponents is that you'll know when it's coming, so you can plan for it.
That is also a neat bit of game design, yes.
The Idondeth player also has to plan for it, as if he's not in the right position by turn 3, he'll miss the opportunity. I can see this army being tricky to play at first, but once you know what you're doing you can pull some nasty stuff of.
It'll be harder than you think, many many things are dead by turn 3.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I like that they are elves that hate and are hated by elves. Reminds me a bit of Falmer from TES.
That Forgotten Nightmares rule sounds interesting lorewise. It does give them a bit of a lovecraftian element, though I still would have preferred it if they had gone fishmen instead of point-eared.
The Tides of Death is another interesting little mechanic. I can see it giving a certain rhythm to the army's playstyle, which might be fun to play around.
The good news for opponents is that you'll know when it's coming, so you can plan for it.
That is also a neat bit of game design, yes.
The Idondeth player also has to plan for it, as if he's not in the right position by turn 3, he'll miss the opportunity. I can see this army being tricky to play at first, but once you know what you're doing you can pull some nasty stuff of.
It'll be harder than you think, many many things are dead by turn 3.
Or in combat with weakened enemies that can't fight back effectively anyways.
Kanluwen wrote: Yes they do. The skull with runes is the one, the rune for Mathlann is the 6.
Fancy that. Will be interesting to see how readable they are on the table. I have a friend who means to buy Deepkin. He's had mixed success with some of GW's fancier dice.
Kanluwen wrote: Yes they do. The skull with runes is the one, the rune for Mathlann is the 6.
Fancy that. Will be interesting to see how readable they are on the table. I have a friend who means to buy Deepkin. He's had mixed success with some of GW's fancier dice.
My favorite are the Space Marine dice where the one is a skull and the 6 is... a slightly different skull. That's a fun conversation I have with my opponent before each game.
Kanluwen wrote: Yes they do. The skull with runes is the one, the rune for Mathlann is the 6.
Fancy that. Will be interesting to see how readable they are on the table. I have a friend who means to buy Deepkin. He's had mixed success with some of GW's fancier dice.
My favorite are the Space Marine dice where the one is a skull and the 6 is... a slightly different skull. That's a fun conversation I have with my opponent before each game.
I really like the shipwreck, but every picture of it always makes it look like the back part is just a picture warped in Photoshop to make it look like part of the model.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: NAmarti might make nifty alternatives to Dark Eldar Shade blokes who's name escapes me right now. Mandrakes. That's what I'm thinking of.
Precisley my thought. This is what I'm thinking of doing:
Pretty cool overall, but those dice...are so terrible. You see the other sides symbols through it . They peaked at the Thousands Sons blue and gold dice. Custodes were ok aswell. All other ones have been terrible
Shanktopus is the best model they’ve put out since the Warlord nurgling kit that came with a weird larger nurgling.
Very happy to see the thralls come in a box of 10 and be so dynamic. Gonna have to start an army now, shantopus demands it.
Hbbyaddict wrote: Shanktopus is the best model they’ve put out since the Warlord nurgling kit that came with a weird larger nurgling.
Very happy to see the thralls come in a box of 10 and be so dynamic. Gonna have to start an army now, shantopus demands it.
Shantopus? Shank + octopus?
Either way I welcome my new overlord.
I'll wait for the warscrolls to see, if I can fit them in my order army, otherwise I'm just going to get few characters and terrain.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: NAmarti might make nifty alternatives to Dark Eldar Shade blokes who's name escapes me right now. Mandrakes. That's what I'm thinking of.
Precisley my thought. This is what I'm thinking of doing:
Spoiler:
[/img]
I should pitch this idea to the one interested in them at my local shop. I have no uses for those dumb masks on my DoK. The army about big flowy hair not having any? Never!
Oh snap those SoS heads look fantastic on those bodies. Good idea. On the flipside some Melusai with fins instead of skorpion tailends and some webbing under the arms could make some cool alternative eelriders by posing as (creepy) mermaids for those that dislike the eels.
The posing is really good on those thralls. I just hope they won't have crazy witch elves pricing, the pricing absolutely made me not get a small DoK army. Thinking about KO instead and those sharks could be nice captured skysharks or something and octopus accountant a dignitary representing a group of Free Cities traders.
Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers, on the other hand, is designed to appear regal and powerful
He doesn't look powerful at all. There's a huge censorship octopus behind him who shows him what he can write and what not. And if he writes something the octopus doesn't like, it will cut the scroll with it's knife and let the mace dance on his head. Poor guy.
Chikout wrote: So gw just released a pdf of the full rules for Shadespire with all the faqs incorporated (not just added to the end) for FREE on the warhammer underworlds website, which also contains a full card library, including the winning decks from many of the major tournaments.
That is pretty awesome. The support for this game has been great.
Knight wrote: Local store said the price for Namarthi is 40€ (cheaper than Witch Elves), Terrain is 32,5€, Lottan is 25€, the surfer dude 85€.
Is hard to justify those prices when 20 Kairic Acolytes are also 40€ and they aren't less detailed in any sense of the word or even a horde unit, they are actually quite expensive in points.
Knight wrote: Local store said the price for Namarthi is 40€ (cheaper than Witch Elves), Terrain is 32,5€, Lottan is 25€, the surfer dude 85€.
Is hard to justify those prices when 20 Kairic Acolytes are also 40€ and they aren't less detailed in any sense of the word or even a horde unit, they are actually quite expensive in points.
It's going to, IMO, depend upon how exactly the warscroll battalions are laid out. Kairic Acolytes have to be taken in large numbers in some of them and likely the box was 'designed' to be used alongside Silver Tower which has a few random bits.
When the Idoneth Deepkin fight, they appear to be underwater even if they’re several miles inland. On a small scale, this can be seen by the shoals of fish that accompany many models, while on a larger one, the battlefield itself begins to warp and change. The Etheric Vortex: Gloomtide Shipwreck allows you to represent this on your tabletop. You can use yours to bolster the abilities of nearby Idoneth Deepkin or simply as thematic scatter terrain – perhaps you could combine yours with the treasure chests found in the Azyrite Ruins set to build some appropriately nautical scenarios for your Idoneth Deepkin…
Hm, the weapons on those infantry are too big for my taste. The swords I get because making them slimmed down could cause breakage issues in a practical sense, but the axes & sickle just seem overly huge to me.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Hm, the weapons on those infantry are too big for my taste. The swords I get because making them slimmed down could cause breakage issues in a practical sense, but the axes & sickle just seem overly huge to me.
I'm thinking the axes are meant to be 'great' weapons and the sickle is a special.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Hm, the weapons on those infantry are too big for my taste. The swords I get because making them slimmed down could cause breakage issues in a practical sense, but the axes & sickle just seem overly huge to me.
I'm thinking the axes are meant to be 'great' weapons and the sickle is a special.
They're elves so I assume even basic infantry weapons are high quality but I'd say they are probably just good rather than great, I imagine the latter would be reserved for the higher castes.
Oguhmek wrote: So, how is those ones different from Pallid Wych Flesh?
Feels like many of the new paints are just very minor changes to existing ones.
Pallid Wych Flesh is the whitest flesh color, I reckon. Can't say for certain without a direct comparison of course, but these look like they'll fit in just fine between that and Flayed One Flesh. There's a large enough gap between the two.
I think GW tries to appeal to people who don't like to mix paints and provides many shades of the same color to that end. Works for me.
I think GW tries to appeal to people who don't like to mix paints and provides many shades of the same color to that end. Works for me.
If that's the case then I approve, because mixing paints is a PITA. Wasteful too, especially if you get the ratio wrong, so you have to keep adding more until you get the right color.
Chopstick wrote:So the thrall is a kit of 10 instead of the usual double 5 man kit?
The male Thralls have very dynamic pose, but the female look...bored.
Looks to me like it's laid out similar to the Tzaangor kit. Five different bodies with different arm configurations. Double sprues.
str00dles1 wrote:Pretty cool overall, but those dice...are so terrible. You see the other sides symbols through it . They peaked at the Thousands Sons blue and gold dice. Custodes were ok aswell. All other ones have been terrible
Looks like they'll be a pain to read if you're trying to play fast.
So I'm thinking I'll be picking an Eidolon kit to use as a C'Tan shard of the Deceiver.
Hulksmash wrote: Solid stats. Now to see their price, special rules, and synergies :0 though I'll probably grab 10-20 just to build and paint.
Well, they're our "generic" Battleline. Points wise we don't know, but they're $50 for 10. The guy with the Octopus allows for them to reroll Hit rolls of 1. They benefit from Forgotten Nightmares(can't be targeted unless they're the nearest visible unit) and they'll get to benefit from the Tides of Death rules.
Out of the box they're a bit softer Swordmasters. With the faction synergy and special weapons they'll probably blow them out of the water far and wide.
So I read something I thought was amusing on the Namarti article
The Namarti are the largest and lowliest caste in the society of the Idoneth Deepkin, born with withering souls. Namarti must sustain themselves on the stolen souls of others
So Namarti are hollows then? Are they going to turn AoS into dark souls? Because if they bring out a Solaire expy, I might actually buy it. Because Solaire is a cool guy
This army is pulling me into AoS. Got a buddy interested in Sylvaneth, so we'll take the plunge together. Fiancé is a Daemons player in 40k (because she's a heretic), so she's eager to cross over too.
I'm absolutely loving how unique looking each of these armies look. Freakin' can't wait to paint that octopus familiar thing.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So Namarti are hollows then? Are they going to turn AoS into dark souls? Because if they bring out a Solaire expy, I might actually buy it. Because Solaire is a cool guy
It started with daughters of Khaine. There were weak half souls of the aelves that Morathi turned into her feeble male slaves.
Elf infantry in AoS generally have good bravery, good offense, good mobility, but 1 wound with average saves. I'm glad to see GW continue this trend, it makes them feel like elves in the crunch as well as the fluff. It also makes me less concerned about their powerful allegiance; these battleline aren't going to come cheap with those stats which means the entire army probably lacks anything that's expendable or durable.
The quite obvious nemesis match up is Kharadrons vs Deep kin, just going on the naval themes, pirates vs sea monsters.
Deepkin seem brutal against the overlords who sadly look quite bad in comparison, what with their shooting effectively shut down. It means the opponent can choose what you shoot at, effectively giving them control over your shooting phase.
It's not all about the competitive side...but it seems the dwarves will always have it uphill in that scenario.
Kharadron aren't at as big of a disadvantage as one might think. Yes, they are a shooting army but most of it is shortish range meaning they often don't have all their shooting going in round 1 anyway. Further, they have massive mobility (and thus some ability to change targets) and a large number of rend -1 shots--shots that were likely to be hitting light-armored screening units anyways. Still a tough matchup, but there are worse ones.
Eldarain wrote: I thought that was the must target the closest unit rule. Does it impose -1 too?
No, that's my bad.
That's a relief. Only being able to shoot what your opponent chooses and having added negative modifiers sounded crazy.
Having them out there should reduce the all shooting all the time builds though. That seems good for the game to me.
Those are basically a myth at this point. Pretty much the only competitive list that still use primarily non-magical shooting is kharadron clown car.
And before you say 'oh, but what about...? The answer is either it isn't good in the current meta or it wasn't actually good to begin with.
Magic has replaced shooting as the most problematic aspect of AoS.
Neither of those things were ever the root problem; the common factor is how both of them take maximum advantage of double-turns.
Also magic is more of an issue right now specifically because Tzeentch is more or less OP as an army. Though again one notes that it is an army with heavy magic and good shooting, leading back to the above.
Translation and editing: Shadespire is fixing a few lines of AoS' future development. In fact, the storm mages were first designed for shadespire.
The next batch of warbands will change the landscape quite a lot. Specially the storm mages, more than the spectres, due to the range of their attacks. They will be released just after the supplement for magic meant for AOS that will release in june. Within it will appear new units (elementals, storm mages, and the new arch-prophet of gorkamorka) as well as a remodelling of the magic as it is in the vanilla game. It will be a softcover manual. 168 pages long.
Does this imply the supplement for AoS magic is going to be rather noticeable addition to the game? I'd love for my highborn wizards to have more elemental spells to choose from. Although I do worry that everything is going to spin out of control with spells removing entire units from play.
Knight wrote: Does this imply the supplement for AoS magic is going to be rather noticeable addition to the game? I'd love for my highborn wizards to have more elemental spells to choose from. Although I do worry that everything is going to spin out of control with spells removing entire units from play.
I think that they're implying that the Stormcast Magi will be a pretty big difference to the way Shadespire plays.
3 hexes is more or less the longest range there is now--and that is the Boltstorm Pistols that the Stormcast Vanguard have. There was some stuff with range of 2 hexes before, but 3 hexes is a Big Deal.
AKA: bastilodon's ability. Watered down, mind you if memory serves right it also had MW saves.
There's a lot of units in AoS that ignore some/all rend. Until the recent battletome all the nighthaunt had that ability (it was changes to ignoring all modifiers, positive and negative). What's big is that unlike the Bastilodon (and now Nighthaunt) these guys ignore all rend AND can benefit from cover. They are still vulnerable to mortal wounds though, which is a good drawback for balance. A big question is if they have access to any sort of save rerolls since that is what pushes the Bastilodon into ridiculous territory.
Kanluwen wrote: Apparently the shipwreck gives them access to saves versus Mortal Wounds and the Aspect of the Sea can give them a -1 to Hit via a spell.
Plus the turtle(16 Wounds!) has a native -1 to Hit.
Source? I totally believe you, but I'm rabid for reading more about these guys lol
Kanluwen wrote: Apparently the shipwreck gives them access to saves versus Mortal Wounds and the Aspect of the Sea can give them a -1 to Hit via a spell.
Plus the turtle(16 Wounds!) has a native -1 to Hit.
Can they actually deploy or summon the shipwreck by some means?
Kanluwen wrote: Apparently the shipwreck gives them access to saves versus Mortal Wounds and the Aspect of the Sea can give them a -1 to Hit via a spell.
Plus the turtle(16 Wounds!) has a native -1 to Hit.
Can they actually deploy or summon the shipwreck by some means?
They get deployed at the start of the battle, costing 0 points. You can deploy it as the two halves separately or as a single thing.
The guy talking about it was talking fairly fast and I was trying to get stuff done.
The Leviadon was scaaaaaaaaaary though. 2 attacks with its jaws, Hit rolls of 6s dealt 6 Mortal Wounds instead of rolling. Otherwise it's D6 damage. OH! One of the Enclaves(the various "city-states" I guess?) gets to reroll 1s to Hit for their mounts and when they have the turn 2 bonus of Tides of Death they get an additional benefit. They had some perk in play where they count turn 4 as turn 2 instead as well, sooo...yeah.
Kanluwen wrote: Apparently the shipwreck gives them access to saves versus Mortal Wounds and the Aspect of the Sea can give them a -1 to Hit via a spell.
Plus the turtle(16 Wounds!) has a native -1 to Hit.
You'd think a giant turtle would be easy to hit. Maybe everyone has to stop and wonder what's happening.
Kanluwen wrote: Apparently the shipwreck gives them access to saves versus Mortal Wounds and the Aspect of the Sea can give them a -1 to Hit via a spell.
Plus the turtle(16 Wounds!) has a native -1 to Hit.
You'd think a giant turtle would be easy to hit. Maybe everyone has to stop and wonder what's happening.
It's apparently relating to the whole "ethersea" element of the army and them bringing the ocean's depths with them to battle on the land.
The lore stream went over this yesterday and it was...interesting. It's less that they "flood" the land or whatever, it's they've created a way for them to live and bring the elements for their bondbeasts to survive. Their cities have roads, people walk, etc--but the fish and the other sea creatures will swim through the air as though there's nothing happening.
With regards to the Leviadon and its inability to be hit, it's because there's a kind of "refraction" effect that goes ahead of it like the waves breaking ahead of it. The Eidolons of Mathlann as well got explained a bit more yesterday: they're not actually "avatars" or anything like that. Mathlann is dead. The Idoneth were taught by Teclis the old Aelven Gods and when they fled from him, they did try to pray to him for aid. Nothing came--but now with their soul magics and whatnot, they've "created" Mathlann anew. It's why he looks so much more healthy and "perfect" than most of the Idoneth models do.
). To be fair, there are certainly similarities between WoW and 
Never saw many of the Slaanesh art since it's for the 8th edition codex. They are freakin' beautiful
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