Sabotage! wrote: I personally don't see a Hive Ganger being out of the question, though I think if it were implemented it would be more of a character with a Hive Gang background who is now a Mercenary/Bounty Hunter/etc.
I kind of look at like this...there are a LOT of Hive Gangs out there, and the average ganger is far inferior to your average guardsman or even PDF soldiers. But every once in a while you will find an extraordinary individual who is a hive ganger, and once in a great while they will draw the attention of someone like an Inquisitor/Rogue Trader/etc. (someone with the means of elevating them out of their situation).
I guess a good analogy would be pro sports. Lots of players in various games will be drafted by professional teams and go on to play on practice squads/farm teams/college teams, some will develop and play in the pros, but many will just stay at that level for their career. But every once in a great while you'll get an 18 year old kid out of high school or juniors or what not that will go all the way to the pros because of their extraordinary talent.
It's finding ability by virtue of having lots of candidates : ).
I think that everyone is overlooking that, by her stated background, Pious Vorne actually was a Hive Ganger, before she entered the service of Taddeus the Purifier and then ended up in the Blackstone Fortress:
Once a hive ganger, Pious Vorne now fights alongside Taddeus the Purifier, having discovered the joys of faith (not to mention burning heretics). Vorne has a pathological love of incendiary execution and seeks to slay any heretics who see the Blackstone Fortress as a refuge from the Emperor’s light.
Stormonu wrote: I was just pointing out how silly it was to question the appearance of three hive hangers when there’s a robot in the group that is easily older than the Imperium itself - as well as depicted as an enemy of mankind in the lore.
Anyways, the article on the tiles made me laugh. Both the drones and the “triangular” shapes on the tile remind me of the Vex mazeworks from Destiny 2. Once again, seems GW only steals from the best (and tries to pass it off as their own unique sort of thing).
Now, just killing time until my copy shows up, and hoping to see some figure expansion packs - good guys or bad - for the game.
Since it seems like people have forgotten how the game actually introduces the robot.. He did not introduce himself as "Hey there Rogue Trader, I am a Man of Iron, An AI that used to be around before the Dark age of Technology, let me help you!"
He instead introduces himself as an Admech Battle Automata that was sent by a Magos to help explore the Blackstone fortress, the Fortress itself being a very valuable and powerful asset that the Magos and Adeptus Mechanicus would be willing to let this robot be used to help others to explore and gather things from this powerful thing of technology. He acts as if he was just another pre-programmed AI that is doing it's duty.
Bulldogging wrote: While i would prefer non-marines...well admech to be specific(probably wont happen due to man of iron conflict), I dont understand why people think the marine would be stronger.
They released the 40k stats for these heros...and they arent regular joes. The rogue trader by himself would absolute wreck most marines...multiple at once even. I wont even bother comparing the man of iron to a marine...and the imperium better pray there arent more of them.
We know what power level gw considers the current heros relative to 40k. Unless a random chapter master shows up, im not really concerned about a marine throwing off the balance.
One marine in the fluff is like 10 marines in 40k. Underpowered Marines is fine in that game because you need to make them viable as an army, but in BSF it would look silly for an Astartes to be weaker than a human character, no matter who it is. He should basically be equivalent to all the rest of the characters put together.
I don;t get this? It's okay for marines to be underpowered in 40K because it's a game and balance. But not in BSF, even though it's also a game?
Unlike most of the trivial little battles they show up for when playing 40K a genuine working Blackstone fortress is actually something valuable enough for them to have a reason to be there
(and some new opponents of appropriate power level to give them a challenge)
Was ready to blow £82 on this one, as its sings "Space Crusade meets Heroquest", but the Chaos enemies was a bit of a turn off. I kinda envisioned Necrons or Dark Eldar instead.
Even still, it looks a nice game, and quite surprised GW took WHQ into the 40K universe. I hope the Eldar Ranger becomes a separate release later on. I like the "Mines of Moria in space" and "Krull" feel to it all.
Sabotage! wrote: I personally don't see a Hive Ganger being out of the question, though I think if it were implemented it would be more of a character with a Hive Gang background who is now a Mercenary/Bounty Hunter/etc.
I kind of look at like this...there are a LOT of Hive Gangs out there, and the average ganger is far inferior to your average guardsman or even PDF soldiers. But every once in a while you will find an extraordinary individual who is a hive ganger, and once in a great while they will draw the attention of someone like an Inquisitor/Rogue Trader/etc. (someone with the means of elevating them out of their situation).
I guess a good analogy would be pro sports. Lots of players in various games will be drafted by professional teams and go on to play on practice squads/farm teams/college teams, some will develop and play in the pros, but many will just stay at that level for their career. But every once in a great while you'll get an 18 year old kid out of high school or juniors or what not that will go all the way to the pros because of their extraordinary talent.
It's finding ability by virtue of having lots of candidates : ).
the flamer/chainsword character in the box used to be a hive ganger.
^^ You know, I was ready for a non-chaos bad guys as well, but, I will still pick up.
More than anything else, this explores the fringes of the IOM, so we may well see non chaos enemies soon, as well as all kinds of protagonists. - But only if this sells well. (Spoiler: IMO this will sell well...)
Warhammer Community is kinda running out of stuff to say about the game. I guess that's the problem with having a 2 week pre-order and trying to write something new about something you've already revealed every single day.
SamusDrake wrote: Was ready to blow £82 on this one, as its sings "Space Crusade meets Heroquest", but the Chaos enemies was a bit of a turn off. I kinda envisioned Necrons or Dark Eldar instead.
Even still, it looks a nice game, and quite surprised GW took WHQ into the 40K universe. I hope the Eldar Ranger becomes a separate release later on. I like the "Mines of Moria in space" and "Krull" feel to it all.
The only model that is designed for a separate release is the chaos lord. The rest are all mixed together on sprues, and are snapfit it looks like as well. Still, the digital elements now exist for potential multipart kits or different characters.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Don't know the Destiny game (was that a Kickstarter dungeon crawler?)
The Tripods clearly go back to Orsen Wells' War of the Worlds at the very least, if not some earlier Jules Vernes or something like that.
Triangle design/architecture for "alien" is also rather retro. Star Trek the original series. Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. That sorta 60s-70s area of sci-fi used it extensively.
Spoiler:
Orson Welles? I think you mean H.G. Wells...
Orson Welles was the narrator on the radio in the 60s that caused people to lose their gak and freak out lol.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Warhammer Community is kinda running out of stuff to say about the game. I guess that's the problem with having a 2 week pre-order and trying to write something new about something you've already revealed every single day.
This is way off topic too, but ... GW has a trademark on “Space Marine”. They do not and have never claimed to have invented the phrase. They just trademarked it before anyone else thought to. IMHO, every time anyone brings this up to try to claim GW want us to think they invented Space Marines, they just make themselves look stupid.
SamusDrake wrote: Was ready to blow £82 on this one, as its sings "Space Crusade meets Heroquest", but the Chaos enemies was a bit of a turn off. I kinda envisioned Necrons or Dark Eldar instead.
Even still, it looks a nice game, and quite surprised GW took WHQ into the 40K universe. I hope the Eldar Ranger becomes a separate release later on. I like the "Mines of Moria in space" and "Krull" feel to it all.
The only model that is designed for a separate release is the chaos lord. The rest are all mixed together on sprues, and are snapfit it looks like as well. Still, the digital elements now exist for potential multipart kits or different characters.
It would be the bloody Chaos chap, wouldnt it! What is GW's fetish with sodding chaos marines! Grrrrrhhh!!!
Sigh.
But seriously, that is a shame, because that is a fantastic looking miniature. On a more optimistic note, I didn't know they are snap-fit. Are they different colour sprues too?
Sunny Side Up wrote: Don't know the Destiny game (was that a Kickstarter dungeon crawler?)
The Tripods clearly go back to Orsen Wells' War of the Worlds at the very least, if not some earlier Jules Vernes or something like that.
Triangle design/architecture for "alien" is also rather retro. Star Trek the original series. Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. That sorta 60s-70s area of sci-fi used it extensively.
Spoiler:
Orson Welles? I think you mean H.G. Wells...
Orson Welles was the narrator on the radio in the 60s that caused people to lose their gak and freak out lol.
60's?
More like the 30's - LOL!
Easier to freak everyone out when mostly everyone was just getting 'up to date news' via the radio!
SamusDrake wrote: Was ready to blow £82 on this one, as its sings "Space Crusade meets Heroquest", but the Chaos enemies was a bit of a turn off. I kinda envisioned Necrons or Dark Eldar instead.
Even still, it looks a nice game, and quite surprised GW took WHQ into the 40K universe. I hope the Eldar Ranger becomes a separate release later on. I like the "Mines of Moria in space" and "Krull" feel to it all.
The only model that is designed for a separate release is the chaos lord. The rest are all mixed together on sprues, and are snapfit it looks like as well. Still, the digital elements now exist for potential multipart kits or different characters.
It would be the bloody Chaos chap, wouldnt it! What is GW's fetish with sodding chaos marines! Grrrrrhhh!!!
I think many factions will be getting a "Blackstone" release, as just about every faction actually would want in on them, and it makes sense to get as many people interested in this as possible.
In my store we have made a demo, and we have played 8 expeditions (4 combats and 4 challenges). I found the game really fun and enjoyable, but we felt that some rules are not very well described (probably because it is a Spanish version and the translation isn't very accurate).
For example, in the spanish manual does not show how to heal grievous wounds, but in the GW video tutorial Becca Scott says that returning to precipice heals grievous wounds.
Another doubt I have is if a explorer have been inspired in an expedition, remain inspired for the rest of expeditions, or start each expedition un-inspired.
Anyway, I recommend this game to any fan of 40k, and particularly if you like games like Zombicide
Agreed that the chaos ennemies are a bit dissapointing, in the sense that the first revealed tripod made it seems like they were going for a more original approach, but still, most of the minis are gorgeous and the game seems really really good and to have some depth, so I'm still enthusiastic
Rogue Trader is a trap option! I would seriously get pretty much anything else GW for that money.
Despite all misgivings, I am getting BSF after all. Agreed to trade some FW junk I bought 10 years ago and never used for everything in the box except the Chaos minis, which I can easily proxy. So it's essentially free.
I played a match with a demo-set at my FLGS as well and I've got to say, the game is really awesome. I do have a soft spot for RPG's and adding that to the 40k universe is just perfect for me.
Besides that, I've been working on a few idea's for custom enemies and explorators that can be used in the game (PM me if you are interested in any ideas.)
I really enjoy Rogue Trader. The missions, the boards, the miniatures, it's all fantastic. The one thing people aren't keen on is that the factions are the most limited in Kill Team compared to all the other factions and are missing counters to some of the meta.
Literally everything except for the actual rules for the factions are stunning out of the Rogue Trader box.
drbored wrote: I really enjoy Rogue Trader. The missions, the boards, the miniatures, it's all fantastic. The one thing people aren't keen on is that the factions are the most limited in Kill Team compared to all the other factions and are missing counters to some of the meta.
Literally everything except for the actual rules for the factions are stunning out of the Rogue Trader box.
Many of the limits in place are simply unnecessary. I'm sure the balance would be just fine if one removed the limit on the Voidsmen (take as many as you'd like) and make Voidsmen Gunner a max 2 option. And with Gellerpox, you can remove unit selection limits on everything except the Hullbreakers.
IIRC the limits only apply to your Kill Team, not your Roster - have as many Voidsmen as you like, but only three plus the gunner at once in a mission. You're still a bit limited since all the specialists are named characters (not sure if that means anything in the KT rules, but I'd be hesitant from a narrative point of view to "recycle" Sanistasia Minst if she were to die, for instance).
AndrewGPaul wrote: IIRC the limits only apply to your Kill Team, not your Roster - have as many Voidsmen as you like, but only three plus the gunner at once in a mission. You're still a bit limited since all the specialists are named characters (not sure if that means anything in the KT rules, but I'd be hesitant from a narrative point of view to "recycle" Sanistasia Minst if she were to die, for instance).
Just finished a 12-game campaign of KT. With this experience (though none with Starstriders directly), I would say that the 3/1 limitation is a huge liability when all core kill teams have no limits on basic troopers and nearly all have a 2-4 max on a gunner. There is simply no reason for the limit except that this quantity is all GW could fit in the sprue (which may imply they do not intend to sell them separately).
At the price they are selling they could easily made a profit from making the Elucian Strider team on 2 normal sprue, or 3 smaller sprue like KT Cassius. That'd actually give them a bit more option and less flatten 2d pose.
But why make more when you can make less and sell at the same price anyway.
Sabotage! wrote: Awesome, it looks like GW listened to everyone who requested KT rules. I'd love to be able to play some Lost and the Damned in KT.
Or it looks like they planned on doing it anyways but posted publicly to shut up the whining.
That's a possibility, but I think it's unlikely. The community team said that they had no word on whether they were in the works, and GW generally has stuff do far in advance. The article states they are currently being worked on. Also to be fair, I saw a lot of people ask if there would be KT rules, or suggest them, but I didn't see a single post anywhere with someone whining they weren't included.
Sabotage! wrote: Awesome, it looks like GW listened to everyone who requested KT rules. I'd love to be able to play some Lost and the Damned in KT.
Or it looks like they planned on doing it anyways but posted publicly to shut up the whining.
That's a possibility, but I think it's unlikely. The community team said that they had no word on whether they were in the works, and GW generally has stuff do far in advance. The article states they are currently being worked on. Also to be fair, I saw a lot of people ask if there would be KT rules, or suggest them, but I didn't see a single post anywhere with someone whining they weren't included.
The Warhammer Community team may not know what the Design Studio is doing, and they're definitely not allowed to comment on projects until they're given te go ahead by Management.
Sabotage! wrote: Awesome, it looks like GW listened to everyone who requested KT rules. I'd love to be able to play some Lost and the Damned in KT.
Or it looks like they planned on doing it anyways but posted publicly to shut up the whining.
That's a possibility, but I think it's unlikely. The community team said that they had no word on whether they were in the works, and GW generally has stuff do far in advance. The article states they are currently being worked on. Also to be fair, I saw a lot of people ask if there would be KT rules, or suggest them, but I didn't see a single post anywhere with someone whining they weren't included.
The Warhammer Community team may not know what the Design Studio is doing, and they're definitely not allowed to comment on projects until they're given te go ahead by Management.
Yes, I'm sure there were 9 different levels of security around KT rules for GW produced models. God forbid some 3rd party makes KT rules for them. There was absolutely no way that GW saw demand for something that could relatively easily be done and would help move products and decided to do so.
Managed to pick this up for about $114, so we'll see how it is when it shows up. Looking forward to trying it out. If it isn't as good as it looks, I can make back $80-90 on the minis I won't be using (maybe even my full investment) and keep the minis I want.
Sabotage! wrote: Awesome, it looks like GW listened to everyone who requested KT rules. I'd love to be able to play some Lost and the Damned in KT.
Or it looks like they planned on doing it anyways but posted publicly to shut up the whining.
That's a possibility, but I think it's unlikely. The community team said that they had no word on whether they were in the works, and GW generally has stuff do far in advance. The article states they are currently being worked on. Also to be fair, I saw a lot of people ask if there would be KT rules, or suggest them, but I didn't see a single post anywhere with someone whining they weren't included.
The Warhammer Community team may not know what the Design Studio is doing, and they're definitely not allowed to comment on projects until they're given te go ahead by Management.
Yes, I'm sure there were 9 different levels of security around KT rules for GW produced models. God forbid some 3rd party makes KT rules for them. There was absolutely no way that GW saw demand for something that could relatively easily be done and would help move products and decided to do so.
God forbid that they want to release stuff on their own pace and have it be a nice surprise rather than having their hand forced to announce it in advance because people complained it wasn't there from the outset. Did you ever think maybe they were going to wait until the full kits saw a release for the Chaos side? That they might have wanted to wait for Vigilus to build up a bit more?
Also you could read this very thread and see several instances of complaining that rules weren't included for KT.
The Warhammer TV team have said repeatedly that they see things a year or more in advance. "We have no word on <thing people ask about" means "We'll tell you when we're ready to".>
AndrewGPaul wrote: The Warhammer TV team have said repeatedly that they see things a year or more in advance. "We have no word on <thing people ask about" means "We'll tell you when we're ready to".>
I'd be surprised if it isn't compartmentalized though. Warhammer Community isn't solely the Warhammer TV team.
Yes, I'm sure there'll be things that the Community site writers don't know. But I'm sure there's just as many things where they do know, but aren't going to tell.
Sabotage! wrote: Awesome, it looks like GW listened to everyone who requested KT rules. I'd love to be able to play some Lost and the Damned in KT.
Or it looks like they planned on doing it anyways but posted publicly to shut up the whining.
That's a possibility, but I think it's unlikely. The community team said that they had no word on whether they were in the works, and GW generally has stuff do far in advance. The article states they are currently being worked on. Also to be fair, I saw a lot of people ask if there would be KT rules, or suggest them, but I didn't see a single post anywhere with someone whining they weren't included.
The Warhammer Community team may not know what the Design Studio is doing, and they're definitely not allowed to comment on projects until they're given te go ahead by Management.
Yes, I'm sure there were 9 different levels of security around KT rules for GW produced models. God forbid some 3rd party makes KT rules for them. There was absolutely no way that GW saw demand for something that could relatively easily be done and would help move products and decided to do so.
God forbid that they want to release stuff on their own pace and have it be a nice surprise rather than having their hand forced to announce it in advance because people complained it wasn't there from the outset. Did you ever think maybe they were going to wait until the full kits saw a release for the Chaos side? That they might have wanted to wait for Vigilus to build up a bit more?
Also you could read this very thread and see several instances of complaining that rules weren't included for KT.
All be honest and say I haven't read every single post in this thread, so there probably are a handful of complaints about no KT rules around release. I didn't see any on the announcement of the 40k Facebook page, nor on Reddit, where many people were asking about KT rules specifically. It's silly to assume anyone "forced" GWs hand. They release things when they want, they always have. By insinuating that a few people complaining about KT rules "forced" GW's hand you would think that the hundreds of very vocal SoB players who complained for a decade would have "forced" GW to do SoB at some point over that time. But it took the results of a community survey and a large amount of people saying that they wanted SoB for them to decide to do anything with them. GW is simply doing what most smart businesses do. They see a demand, and they try to meet that demand.
I honestly don't know what your issue with GW releasing rules for one of their products is. I think it's great they included 40k rules for the Blackstone Fortress stuff and that they are making rules for KT....it's more fun people can have with the box contents. It's nice GW takes feedback from their customer base now, and it's also nice they are giving people more than one way to use their models.
Yeah I don’t think anyone was complaining about them making the rules, just countering your point that they listened to feedback. It is very likely that they were doing it anyway.
Community when they say they haven’t heard or seen about something just means they’ve not had the go ahead to mention yet. And anyone in GW, not just community team members. Just one of those things all businesses do with their products and information, most other companies just don’t have the same draw for people wanting to know about future things in the same way.
It would make me consider the box depending on their KT rules, as I’d get double use..
Kanluwen wrote:The 40k Facebook page removes those posts. You not seeing them doesn't mean they are not there.
And I have no issue with them doing it. I have an issue with people whining that it's not there from the outset.
That's a fair point, I'm sure they do delete a lot of the more blathering posts. This is the 40k fanbase after all, and the people that whine, do so to an extreme.
Danny76 wrote:Yeah I don’t think anyone was complaining about them making the rules, just countering your point that they listened to feedback. It is very likely that they were doing it anyway.
Community when they say they haven’t heard or seen about something just means they’ve not had the go ahead to mention yet. And anyone in GW, not just community team members. Just one of those things all businesses do with their products and information, most other companies just don’t have the same draw for people wanting to know about future things in the same way.
It would make me consider the box depending on their KT rules, as I’d get double use..
I'm not saying that the rules weren't in development already, it just doesn't seem like something they would need to keep secret on. Yes, there is a good chance the community team didn't know, but if It did, I doubt GW would tell them "you can't share this information." When they were asked about 40k rules they responded as soon as they found out. It's a product that is already going to be released, has been spoiled in full, etc. If anything, if the community team knew about it, they would have probably announced it as "Kill Team rules coming soon." Really the only harm that can be done by telling people the rules are coming is that some guy in his basement is going to stop writing his homebrew ones, and the potential upside is a couple more people buy the box.
Kanluwen wrote: The 40k Facebook page removes those posts. You not seeing them doesn't mean they are not there.
And I have no issue with them doing it. I have an issue with people whining that it's not there from the outset.
Why do you have an issue with people asking for what they want, or highlighting that it's a bit odd/sad that something a lot of folk want isn't available?
Or is it that you have an issue with modern GW actually appearing to listen to people and respond to their desires? I swear you can't win with some folk; for years GW were completely shut off from customers, and the Knights of Our Glorious Corporate Overlords would descend on anyone who dared express a negative point of view of something with bleats of "stop whinging on a forum and contact GW then nyeeeehhh!" despite knowing with the same utter certainty as everyone else that they weren't listening. Now that they do give the appearance of listening and even, on occasion, being responsive to people's requests, their shining defenders accuse everyone who stops whinging on a forum and contacts GW of "whining"
Kanluwen wrote: The 40k Facebook page removes those posts. You not seeing them doesn't mean they are not there.
And I have no issue with them doing it. I have an issue with people whining that it's not there from the outset.
Why do you have an issue with people asking for what they want, or highlighting that it's a bit odd/sad that something a lot of folk want isn't available?
Or is it that you have an issue with modern GW actually appearing to listen to people and respond to their desires? I swear you can't win with some folk; for years GW were completely shut off from customers, and the Knights of Our Glorious Corporate Overlords would descend on anyone who dared express a negative point of view of something with bleats of "stop whinging on a forum and contact GW then nyeeeehhh!" despite knowing with the same utter certainty as everyone else that they weren't listening. Now that they do give the appearance of listening and even, on occasion, being responsive to people's requests, their shining defenders accuse everyone who stops whinging on a forum and contacts GW of "whining"
Couldn't agree more. How can ''complaining about something and making a company take actions to resolve the complaints'' be viewed in a negative light? It seems that for some, anything else than blindly accepting and agreeing with every actions of GW is nothing less than a sin
Well, finally pre-ordered my copy (had to wait for my guy to get one more thing in stock before putting the order through). I doubt I'll get it in time for the weekend, which means I won't see any of it 'til at least December 1st, but there we go. All sorted.
Now it's up to GW to follow-up on this and expand this game to greater and greater heights.
Danny76 wrote: Yeah I don’t think anyone was complaining about them making the rules, just countering your point that they listened to feedback. It is very likely that they were doing it anyway.
I gotta agree. I don't think there's a timeline where GW weren't making KT rules for these minis. They didn't need to be told. It was always part of the plan.
Couldn't agree more. How can ''complaining about something and making a company take actions to resolve the complaints'' be viewed in a negative light?
It seems that for some, anything else than blindly accepting and agreeing with every actions of GW is nothing less than a sin
The fact you can't separate "giving feedback" and "complaining" tells us everything we need to know about this fanbase.
Couldn't agree more. How can ''complaining about something and making a company take actions to resolve the complaints'' be viewed in a negative light?
It seems that for some, anything else than blindly accepting and agreeing with every actions of GW is nothing less than a sin
The fact you can't separate "giving feedback" and "complaining" tells us everything we need to know about this fanbase.
Couldn't agree more. How can ''complaining about something and making a company take actions to resolve the complaints'' be viewed in a negative light?
It seems that for some, anything else than blindly accepting and agreeing with every actions of GW is nothing less than a sin
The fact you can't separate "giving feedback" and "complaining" tells us everything we need to know about this fanbase.
Well, what would you say is the difference?
Oh that's easy - if they agree with it, it's fair and genuine feedback, and if they disagree or don't care, it's mindless complaining.
Couldn't agree more. How can ''complaining about something and making a company take actions to resolve the complaints'' be viewed in a negative light?
It seems that for some, anything else than blindly accepting and agreeing with every actions of GW is nothing less than a sin
The fact you can't separate "giving feedback" and "complaining" tells us everything we need to know about this fanbase.
For GW fanboys such as yourself, every feedback that is marginally negative is viewed as whining or complaining
"Grey Knights aren't working with the current rules. I feel like they have been unfairly affected by the recent nerfs to Deep Strike and Smite. Could we look at some possible ways for them to get around those nerfs such as an exception to the Deep Strike restrictions or stacking Smite cost? Maybe even some points reductions" is feedback.
"Grey Knights aren't working with the current rules. I feel like they have been unfairly affected by the recent nerfs to Deep Strike and Smite. Could we look at some possible ways for them to get around those nerfs such as an exception to the Deep Strike restrictions or stacking Smite cost? Maybe even some points reductions" is feedback.
Agreed. Complaining is not constructive beyond saying there is a problem with no further suggestion of a solution. Just a demand to fix it. Feedback describes why X is a problem and usually presents possible solutions as part of the request to fix the problem.
"Grey Knights aren't working with the current rules. I feel like they have been unfairly affected by the recent nerfs to Deep Strike and Smite. Could we look at some possible ways for them to get around those nerfs such as an exception to the Deep Strike restrictions or stacking Smite cost? Maybe even some points reductions" is feedback.
Agreed. Complaining is not constructive beyond saying there is a problem with no further suggestion of a solution. Just a demand to fix it. Feedback describes why X is a problem and usually presents possible solutions as part of the request to fix the problem.
Tone and content, indeed
-
Yes
but since GW has a ton of customers, it's pretty much a given that theyll receive constructive feedback and useless feedback. And even some ''complaining'' is precious info for a company, cause it can show them where they can make some improvements.
Finally, this year’s Advent Calendar also includes a trio of tales from the heart of the Blackstone Fortress, each focusing on different explorers who brave the twisting labyrinths and xenos horrors that wait within. Rein and Raus, the Ratling twins, will face their past on Precipice, and Taddeus the Purifier will be tested to the limits of his faith in the God-Emperor. And then there’s a story about UR-025, the “Imperial Robot”…
Finally, this year’s Advent Calendar also includes a trio of tales from the heart of the Blackstone Fortress, each focusing on different explorers who brave the twisting labyrinths and xenos horrors that wait within. Rein and Raus, the Ratling twins, will face their past on Precipice, and Taddeus the Purifier will be tested to the limits of his faith in the God-Emperor. And then there’s a story about UR-025, the “Imperial Robot”…
Seems to be quite a few of interst to me - Neferata especially and the one about UR-025 sounds fun!
Just got mine in the post. The hidden vault envelope is pretty small, but it's there on mine. It's a green/black image with a spindle drone on the front, and only when you turn it over did I realise what it is.
phillv85 wrote: Just got mine in the post. The hidden vault envelope is pretty small, but it's there on mine. It's a green/black image with a spindle drone on the front, and only when you turn it over did I realise what it is.
Was it packed in between the game's cards, or just lodged in the box individually? The latter seems to be the case in all the unboxings I've seen and it's definitely not the case with my box, at least
phillv85 wrote: Just got mine in the post. The hidden vault envelope is pretty small, but it's there on mine. It's a green/black image with a spindle drone on the front, and only when you turn it over did I realise what it is.
Was it packed in between the game's cards, or just lodged in the box individually? The latter seems to be the case in all the unboxings I've seen and it's definitely not the case with my box, at least
Just in there individually, bit of a fether if they've missed it out of yours.
Managed to pick mine up today and stuck together half of the models included, will do the rest tomorrow evening then dive into the crunch of the game. Interesting to see them split the rules of the game into three separate booklets.
Mr_Rose wrote: Check out Twitch, they’re running a BF game without Becca Scott and they seem like they’re having a bunch more fun.
Becca Scott hams it up a bit much but as far as keeping the rules straight and managing the players she's actually one of the best wargame/rpg let's play presenters I've ever seen. Guess that's why she works for GW instead of being some schlub with a YouTube channel.
I can't wait to get my box but it hasn't even shipped yet
Mr_Rose wrote: Check out Twitch, they’re running a BF game without Becca Scott and they seem like they’re having a bunch more fun.
Becca Scott hams it up a bit much but as far as keeping the rules straight and managing the players she's actually one of the best wargame/rpg let's play presenters I've ever seen. Guess that's why she works for GW instead of being some schlub with a YouTube channel.
I can't wait to get my box but it hasn't even shipped yet
Eh. I’m just saying that there are three people on Twitch who were also in the ‘official’ let’s play and they all seem way more into it (and believably so) without having a script with a side of ham forced down their throats.
Personally I think they need to either: pick different (less reserved) people to work with Scott in future; give everyone more time to get used to each other’s presence; or (in the particular case of BF) have Scott as the ‘adversary’ with the GW team as a team. Teething troubles, basically.
She's definitely the dominant personality, so making her the "GM" or even just the presenter who explains the rules and manages the game, as opposed to a player, would be a good idea. Still, aside from her somewhat inauthentic presentation she's really good at keeping things straight which is pretty important. Nothing kills a let's play of a table top game like the people involved not knowing the rules or having to stop and deliberate.
For anyone wanting a potential way for them to bring in the Chaos side of things?
Mallex's forces are purposely being "split apart" by the Blackstone Fortress. He doesn't know how many of his Astartes are still alive. He's concerned that some of them might be plotting to overthrow him even...
There's also a way for Orks, Drukhari, Tau, and a few other races to be brought in via Precipice.
Kanluwen wrote: For anyone wanting a potential way for them to bring in the Chaos side of things?
Mallex's forces are purposely being "split apart" by the Blackstone Fortress. He doesn't know how many of his Astartes are still alive. He's concerned that some of them might be plotting to overthrow him even...
There's also a way for Orks, Drukhari, Tau, and a few other races to be brought in via Precipice.
Sounds like a good way of increasing content. Make different teams and potentially add on to others would be good without going the AoS method of "Everyone can join!"
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Sounds like a good way of increasing content. Make different teams and potentially add on to others would be good without going the AoS method of "Everyone can join!"
Silver Tower is a labyrinth that promise great reward and wish fulfil for anyone who can conquer it. Not much different than the reason people want to explore in Blackstone Fortress.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Sounds like a good way of increasing content. Make different teams and potentially add on to others would be good without going the AoS method of "Everyone can join!"
Silver Tower is a labyrinth that promise great reward and wish fulfil for anyone who can conquer it. Not much different than the reason people want to explore in Blackstone Fortress.
Yes, but the civilization hating Beastmen, angry backstabbing rats, normal humans, and other such things working together is kind of odd, fun as it is.
Blackstone Fortress hexes are about half and inch smaller than Calth hexes but almost identical in size with Shadespire hexes. I am not sold on the boards - while some of the graphics are nice, the scale seems to be too small compared to miniatures. For a game that is essentially a dungeon fighter, the board should have the same scale as the miniatures IMO.
I bought Blackstone Fortress for the miniatures and honestly, according to what I have seen I am not excited about the gameplay at all. The inclusion of different shaped dice seems pretty pointless and the combat system as a whole feels rather bland (I do like the action and destiny dice mechanic from Silver Tower, though). Also, some of the challenges are in the same category of stupidity as "compare your mustache" rules from early AoS warscroll compilations
jullevi wrote: The inclusion of different shaped dice seems pretty pointless...
That couldn't be further from the truth. If it was just D6's then everything would be done on a simple D6 scale. Because the game includes D6s, D8s, D12s and a D20 it gives you far more granularity. There can be big differences between weapon types, random AI behaviours, and other types of charts.
D6 and D6 alone is limiting. Including other types of dice gives the mechanics of the game greater depth.
jullevi wrote: Blackstone Fortress hexes are about half and inch smaller than Calth hexes but almost identical in size with Shadespire hexes. I am not sold on the boards - while some of the graphics are nice, the scale seems to be too small compared to miniatures. For a game that is essentially a dungeon fighter, the board should have the same scale as the miniatures IMO.
I bought Blackstone Fortress for the miniatures and honestly, according to what I have seen I am not excited about the gameplay at all. The inclusion of different shaped dice seems pretty pointless and the combat system as a whole feels rather bland (I do like the action and destiny dice mechanic from Silver Tower, though). Also, some of the challenges are in the same category of stupidity as "compare your mustache" rules from early AoS warscroll compilations
Yeah im worried about tje challenges. The few i saw reeked of aos :(
jullevi wrote: The inclusion of different shaped dice seems pretty pointless...
That couldn't be further from the truth. If it was just D6's then everything would be done on a simple D6 scale. Because the game includes D6s, D8s, D12s and a D20 it gives you far more granularity. There can be big differences between weapon types, random AI behaviours, and other types of charts.
D6 and D6 alone is limiting. Including other types of dice gives the mechanics of the game greater depth.
Eh. The proprietary D6, D8 and D12 are really just three levels of "hits on a X+, crits on a Y+". While the probabilities couldn't be replicated exactly on a basic D6, their inclusion is probably a lot more due to the visual distinctiveness from action dice, rather than doing anything fancy mechanically.
Played a game today. Seems fairly similar to Silver Tower, although less quirky; opinions may vary on whether that is a good or a bad thing.
Grievous wounds are horrible. You can get them with an unlucky roll every time you are attacked and as far as I can tell, most characters have no way of healing them except finishing an expedition.
Just to be clear, if Amallyn Shadowguide ended her previous exploration with the artifact to get inspired, then retreat to Precipice to heal her wounds, and finally begins a new exploration. Does she remain inspired?
Because I just saw the Designer Notes and I'm kind of confused...
Q: If an explorer was inspired when they ended an expedition, do they remain inspired on their next expedition?
A: No.
Makes sense in characters who are inspired by performing actions, such as Pious Vorne, but characters inspired by artifacts...
Trajann Valoris wrote: Just to be clear, if Amallyn Shadowguide ended her previous exploration with the artifact to get inspired, then retreat to Precipice to heal her wounds, and finally begins a new exploration. Does she remain inspired?
It's a temporary high. Once she gets back to Precipice she realises that her materialism is a kind of obsession that could lead her to She Who Thirsts, and thus she redoubles her efforts to remain on the Path of the Outcast, eschewing personal gain for a greater victory against the Enemy.
The game seems ok. Is a lot of dice rolls and looking back and forwards between books. I gather would get easier if played more, but seems to much flicking.
For a silver tower like game I think is an improvement (however different genre). On this type of game, upgrades is what makes it fun for me and there isn't enough (for my characters or the enemy units), like during game or post game etc.
Is ok for a board game.
I played with some of my non 40k/GW playing mates and was to much rules stuff and not enough upgrades during the engagements etc. Think unless for the models, maybe a pass from me (apart from I already bought it). Is to complicated (or is spilt up into to many page flippers) for something that doesn't really upgrade your models to make them true protagonists. They have minor upgrades etc can do but nothing spectacular.
If play a lot I can see it being easy to remember, just don't see the replay-ability.
EDIT: We didn't finish it, but I don't see us/me playing it again. At least have some good models
jullevi wrote: The inclusion of different shaped dice seems pretty pointless...
That couldn't be further from the truth. If it was just D6's then everything would be done on a simple D6 scale. Because the game includes D6s, D8s, D12s and a D20 it gives you far more granularity. There can be big differences between weapon types, random AI behaviours, and other types of charts.
D6 and D6 alone is limiting. Including other types of dice gives the mechanics of the game greater depth.
I am not against using different shaped dice in general, I just think that they have not been used effectively here.
Combat D6 has four blanks, one hit and one critical hit. Combat D8 has four blanks, 2 hits and 2 critical hits. Combat D12 has four blanks, four hits and four critical hits. Why normal and critical hits have equal odds? Why does the D12 exist at all? Why all the weapons do the same amount of damage? I must point out that I have not played the game yet, but after looking at tutorials, rules and components, the whole combat system seems extremely dull and both needlessly complicated and simplified at the same time.
Also, why there are seven different results for hostile behaviour?
Perfect Organism wrote: Played a game today. Seems fairly similar to Silver Tower, although less quirky;
There are agility minigames in the Challenges deck, like having to stack a pillar of dice in numerical order in 20 seconds. That really is on AoS "+1 if you have a moustache" level of nonsense.
jullevi wrote: The inclusion of different shaped dice seems pretty pointless...
That couldn't be further from the truth. If it was just D6's then everything would be done on a simple D6 scale. Because the game includes D6s, D8s, D12s and a D20 it gives you far more granularity. There can be big differences between weapon types, random AI behaviours, and other types of charts.
D6 and D6 alone is limiting. Including other types of dice gives the mechanics of the game greater depth.
I am not against using different shaped dice in general, I just think that they have not been used effectively here.
Combat D6 has four blanks, one hit and one critical hit. Combat D8 has four blanks, 2 hits and 2 critical hits. Combat D12 has four blanks, four hits and four critical hits. Why normal and critical hits have equal odds? Why does the D12 exist at all? Why all the weapons do the same amount of damage? I must point out that I have not played the game yet, but after looking at tutorials, rules and components, the whole combat system seems extremely dull and both needlessly complicated and simplified at the same time.
Also, why there are seven different results for hostile behaviour?
Wow, that sounds stupid/superfluous indeed when it comes to dice. And not a lot of "leveling" is a bummer, too.
At least there's still some time for in-depth reviews to pop up before xmas. After getting Speed Freeks for the minis I can't get another big box game just for the minis - after all, the money could buy the Ork Battleforce from last year, which I "need" more.
I wondered the same about the D12; I presumed it was just a convenient visual distinction between 1/6 hit, 1/6 critical, 4/6 miss and 1/3 hit, 1/3 critical, 1/3 miss.
Perfect Organism wrote: Played a game today. Seems fairly similar to Silver Tower, although less quirky;
There are agility minigames in the Challenges deck, like having to stack a pillar of dice in numerical order in 20 seconds. That really is on AoS "+1 if you have a moustache" level of nonsense.
They exist, but they are less common than in ST from what I can see. Also, there isn't a special rule for every single room and events are a lot more generic; the whole experience just feels a bit more streamlined and closer to a normal boardgame than the full-on weirdness of ST.
Adventurers are all really nice kits to work with, though when cleaning up the barrel of the Ranger, it snapped. Thankfully a very clean break, where you end up with a spike and socket on the two pieces, so easily fixed.
Adventurers are all really nice kits to work with, though when cleaning up the barrel of the Ranger, it snapped. Thankfully a very clean break, where you end up with a spike and socket on the two pieces, so easily fixed.
Chaos Lord is really nice too.
Sneaky pint in the pub, then back to it.
You're lucky, the Ranger had two pieces break in that manner for me just removing them from the sprue.
The barrel broke in the same spot as yours did, and the 'grip' for the rifle broke too. Funny bit though? The model showcased on the webstore had the same 'grip' broken.
We’ll have more news for you about what’ll be in the expansions in the new year, but for now, we can assure you that more explorers will be making their way to the Blackstone Fortress in search of its secrets – while horrors beyond those we’ve already seen lurk in its depths…
I reckon Necrons are better suited to explorers than Hostiles. Imagine a group of four. Lord, Lychguard, Cryptek and Praetorian could make for a decent group?
I wonder if the first two build on the factions in the starter set - more Spindlecreatures and other dwellers in the dark as you get deeper into the heart of the fortress (Spindlemother seems almost compulsory for this kind of thing, and I'd not say no to an Enslaver or some of the other old Rogue Trader beasts), and the twisted corner of the Impaler now under sway of a Dark mechanicus magos (maybe adding in the extra 3-6 traitor guard inc heavy weapon team to fill out the squad alongside the various biomechanical abominations...)
So you'd then have three different "zones" with signature enemies.
Necron Cyptek and Ork Freeboota explorers would be nice as well to round out the factions. But think I'd seem them much more on the side of the explorers than as alternative baddies.
I have a strong suspicion that we will probably be getting an Inquisition Kill Team at some point with Blackstone Fortress rules for the characters in that KT. I can't imagine any Ordos Xenos Inquisitor worth their salt wouldn't want to investigate an ancient alien weapon platform.
Think it's not going to be too obvious, old warhammer quest characters were a little off the beaten track and there's now Kill Team to scratch that Inquisitorial itch.
WD coverage for niche models I can see though, but don't think they'd be the expansions.
Plus it kind of sounds like this is Draik's story, think an Inquisitor would overshadow him a bit (even though they'd be operating well outside of their remit, whilst he wasn't) and it kind of feels like this really is somebody in the design team's baby.
Really intrigued to see what sort of format the expansions take. Single models, small squads or warbands, boxed sets with more tile sections and cards, all of the above?
GoatboyBeta wrote: Really intrigued to see what sort of format the expansions take. Single models, small squads or warbands, boxed sets with more tile sections and cards, all of the above?
I think that's one of the of things of beauty with BSF, is that they can really put out a variety of expansions of different sizes and price points, and they could all integrate into the game very easily.
The most exciting part of that news is that it looks like they won't just be doing rules for existing models, but will be releasing new bespoke minis for the game. I would love to see an Exodite finally get made by GW, and the Hrud introduced as enemies.
Chikout wrote: The most exciting part of that news is that it looks like they won't just be doing rules for existing models, but will be releasing new bespoke minis for the game. I would love to see an Exodite finally get made by GW, and the Hrud introduced as enemies.
One of the Ranger's card is for an Exodite blade, but I wouldn't expect to see actual Exodites...
Given that this is a pretty brave effort by GW, I think we should expect to see a couple of tile + baddy + mission sets and a few new explorers as we saw with old warhammer quest.
Bold first strike, backed up with known product models seems sensible. Though maybe we should look more to Shadespire as a model - pack is main interest to one player but benefits everyone. New ship does that, but also could see them paired with a new baddy or two.
I'm still hoping the rouge trader and crew from kill team will get ported over, and that beyond them we get lots and lots of minor Xenos races popping up. Tarellians, Slann degenerates, and Saharduin/Pisceans being the ones I'd wish list the most.
As others have said, minor Xenos species, spoke of but previously unseen Adepts. That sort of thing.
What I don't want to see are things like Farseers, Lieutenants, Warboss' etc starting to get involved as Explorers. They've got far better things to be getting on with, even for a prize such as a Blackstone. Simply put, the more important and higher ranked peeps are out of the game's scale.
For Tau, perhaps give us some Earth Caste. They're the ones best placed to unravel the mysteries of the Blackstone Tech. Maybe with a Fire Caste bodyguard, and a Water Caste aide. Show us non-military types.
As for Hostiles? Keep up with the weird and the reinvented. I'm not keen on seeing existing models repackaged.
If going for Tau I love the idea of an air and or earth cast. But let all the others be non Kroot auxilia/alloed races.
Make the Tau crowd go really wild by throwing a human auciliary that makes getting around the imperium waaaay easier as everybody else hides in the back of the boat while he plays face.
Fair points Could easily take it up to 8 T'au Empire models. Demurg, Nicassar, Gue'la, Earth, Fire and Water caste. Perhaps a Vespid, and one other. Though I'd say not a Kroot, as we already have one.
I think it'd be fun if each expansion brings with it slightly more dangerous (and potentially larger) versions of the Spindle Drone, the idea being that the deeper one gets within the Fortress, the more varied and lethal it's "protectors" get.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think it'd be fun if each expansion brings with it slightly more dangerous (and potentially larger) versions of the Spindle Drone, the idea being that the deeper one gets within the Fortress, the more varied and lethal it's "protectors" get.
That'd be cool. That'd be very very cool!
I quite like the card system for sorting out your Hostiles, and how it escalates whenever you hotfoot it back to the Station.
Really want to see that expanded to the point where we can properly theme an adventure. Perhaps we only want to take on the Station itself. Maybe we've blundered into a Chaos or Xenos stronghold within it, so will be facing them exclusively.
Most of all, I just want to play it! Got the lads coming round Saturday, so should whet my whistle then!
What I don't want to see are things like Farseers, Lieutenants, Warboss' etc starting to get involved as Explorers. They've got far better things to be getting on with, even for a prize such as a Blackstone. Simply put, the more important and higher ranked peeps are out of the game's scale.
Maybe for 'game balance' but in the setting itself, that's exactly who *would* show up there, looking to take over.
I wouldn't mind seeing chaos as the explorers. It makes sense they are searching it too so they can use it. Have them fight other parties of varying drones, robots and other hostiles
What I don't want to see are things like Farseers, Lieutenants, Warboss' etc starting to get involved as Explorers. They've got far better things to be getting on with, even for a prize such as a Blackstone. Simply put, the more important and higher ranked peeps are out of the game's scale.
Maybe for 'game balance' but in the setting itself, that's exactly who *would* show up there, looking to take over.
But that's exactly his point - they'd be looking to take over. When you get Marine officers and Ork Warbosses showing up, it's a full-scale war, not a party of adventurers delving into a techno-tomb. Captain Bigshot of the Important Marines isn't going to show up and leave his main force aboard the Strike Cruiser while he groups up with a Tau Ethereal, an Eldar Farseer, and a GSC Primus to go grubbing about in the depths of the Fortress looking for shiny loot.
Individuals for BSF and squads for Til Team. I can see some crossover, but I don't expect a squad of Eldar Corsairs for BSF. Maybe a single pirate prince, but not his/her retinue.
I think this will be my supply line to 40K for now, sorry Kill Team.
You could possibly see a Marine captain on a penitence crusade (or whatever it was called), like Leonatos in Bloodquest. In general though, I'd agree that leaving that level of character out is a good idea.
I would prefer, if any marine character is ever done, for them to be a Blackshield who could be either looking for repentance, or has just run away from his Chapter and is currently falling. Even a Fallen, looking for something would fit nicely as a solo marine.
I want to see "build your own" kits. Like, here's what a Ranger can take. Here's what a Soldier can take. And kit that lets you build each of them.
It won't happen. But one thing I miss in dungeon crawlers like this is playing *your* character. Typically, like BSF, you have to play *their* character.
Plus, I love kits over solos. BSF would be a great excuse to provide interesting bits.
The novel provides some good background as to what we may expect in the future, not a guarantee, but a good idea of what may happen. More hostile alien life forms inhabiting the Fortress is a must, as aside from the mentioned and teased Ambull, the main character has encountered many things never seen before.
As for no (loyalist) Astartes or Inquisition present as of yet, the setting is more of a barely reachable frontier / backwater that is still considered more of a myth / rumour / hearsay than an actual thing that's not worth the resources at this point, as this takes place after the Indomitus Crusade. It also does not help that the debris fields surrounding the Fortress is so dense that regular ships can't go through it without suffering major damage, hence the player characters arriving in smaller shuttle like craft.
The Precipice itself is likened to Mos Eisley, packed to the gills with all sorts of scum, xenos and everything in between who are stuck with nowhere to go. Kinda curious as to what kind of species the singing frogs with human faces are. They also make mention of a "peace keeping" force made up of Ogryn clad in slabs of tank armour and arm-mounted assault cannons. Pity we already have UR-025, though it could make for a fun alternate model / conversion.
BrookM wrote: The Precipice itself is likened to Mos Eisley, packed to the gills with all sorts of scum, xenos and everything in between who are stuck with nowhere to go. Kinda curious as to what kind of species the singing frogs with human faces are. They also make mention of a "peace keeping" force made up of Ogryn clad in slabs of tank armour and arm-mounted assault cannons. Pity we already have UR-025, though it could make for a fun alternate model / conversion.
I wondered if that was an oblique Death's Head reference.
Will try to remember to sort some piccies tonight. They're quite atmospheric. Think 'Laserquest' or 'Quasar'/local equivalent arenas from the mid-90's.
Will try to remember to sort some piccies tonight. They're quite atmospheric. Think 'Laserquest' or 'Quasar'/local equivalent arenas from the mid-90's.
Sticky floors, unidentifiable stains, a faintly disturbing odor sitting somewhere between stale BO, pine air freshener, and bleach, a fog machine left on for too long, and lots of black boxes with blacklights and seconhand neon tubing bolted on?
Yodhrin wrote: Sticky floors, unidentifiable stains, a faintly disturbing odor sitting somewhere between stale BO, pine air freshener, and bleach, a fog machine left on for too long, and lots of black boxes with blacklights and seconhand neon tubing bolted on?
And lots of 30-45 degree angle ramps that they told you not to run on but by the end you're sliding down on your hips.
Followed by a few days where you thighs feel like they are filled with acid...
December White Dwarf comes with a “special artefact card”. I was hoping for rules to use the new noise marine as an enemy in Blackstone but hopefully that will come later.
December white dwarf also has an exclusive mission (to eaen the new artefact -
New Rules – Light in the Dark
A new and exclusive mission for Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress, called Traitor’s Fane. It sees Taddeus the Purifier and Pious Vorne ambushed by the forces of Chaos in an ill-fated exploration into the fortress’ interior. Success in this optional side quest will earn the explorers the Blessed Aquila artefact included with the magazine.
BrookM wrote: Halfway through the novel, it's.. trippy?
I have finished it.
Even though some parts of it was pretty good, it is still the worst 40k novel I have ever read.
Just didn’t feel 40k at all. More Star Trek meets Star Wars and Maze Runner :(
Way too ”High SciFi” - and trippy...
Brings back memories of GW destroying WH Fantasy by turning everything up to eleven.
Guess you’ve never read Barrington J Bayley’s effort then. Or the original Space Marine
I kind of feel like the point of it is that it’s not regular 40k. The Blackstone Fortress is intended to be utterly alien. I’ve got to admit that there were WTF, and ‘huh’ moments when I was reading it. But by the end of it all the strings are pulled taut, and you get what it was all about.
Whilst YMMV, and totally fair enough on account I’m by no means the last word in literary appreciation, I found it answered just enough questions to really deepen the mystery of the Blackstone Fortresses.
I’d say it’s going to struggle to be many peoples very favourite BL novels, but for a game tie-in, it really does add to the atmosphere and mystery. I for one was left chomping at the bit for tomorrow’s gaming sesh, where we attempt to conquer the Blackstone.
BrookM wrote: Halfway through the novel, it's.. trippy?
I have finished it.
Even though some parts of it was pretty good, it is still the worst 40k novel I have ever read.
Just didn’t feel 40k at all. More Star Trek meets Star Wars and Maze Runner :(
Way too ”High SciFi” - and trippy...
Brings back memories of GW destroying WH Fantasy by turning everything up to eleven.
Pretty much agree with everything you wrote. It really didn't seem like a 40k novel, and tried way too much to be weird
Me too. I like weird stuff. I'm almost done reading Perdido Street Station by China Mieville and that book is weird.
I'm also pretty tempted to pick up that December issue of White Dwarf, even if it is day one DLC. Do they only sell single issues a month after the issue is released?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Guess you’ve never read Barrington J Bayley’s effort then. Or the original Space Marine
Are you holding those up as examples of bad 40k novels, or weird ones? Because Space Marine (and Inquisitor and The Alien Beast Within) are all excellent. The sequels to Inquisitor, not so much.
Still, "weird and not like the other 40k novels" is a fine recommendation; I'll check it out.
Played through a combat. After dealing with the initial wave, I don't feel there's much tension. Hostile reinforcements feel more like a nuisance than a threat, only delaying searching the four discovery markers.
Am I missing something? Maybe it gets more difficult and dramatic later?
All dungeon crawlers are attrition games. It's going to be a different story when you're on your fourth combat of the expedition and some random encounter cards already put a bunch of wounds on you.
Finally got my copy and was able to play it today. Missed a rule here or there (notably, the reinforcement rule).
The game is fun, but it's a bit "easy mode". We only had one combat where anyone got hurt (one person underestimated Ur-Guls after we'd been blowing the crap out of the guardsmen), and we were able to resolve that pretty quickly anyways.
It did inspire my son and I to write up some additional characters to try out, as well as try our hand at statting up some other hostiles - namely Orks & Necrons.
We've yet to play them, but the characters we put together were a 3-man team of guardsmen (Sergeant Rekk, Corporal Riley and Private Jones), a Primaris Intercessor (Brother Nicholas), A Necron Cryptarch (Oligarch the Seeker) a Fallen Dark Angel Space Marine Terminator (Angelo) and an Ork Nobz (Strogg). If I remember and anyone's interested, I'll try to put them up later.
Stormonu wrote: Finally got my copy and was able to play it today. Missed a rule here or there (notably, the reinforcement rule).
The game is fun, but it's a bit "easy mode". We only had one combat where anyone got hurt (one person underestimated Ur-Guls after we'd been blowing the crap out of the guardsmen), and we were able to resolve that pretty quickly anyways.
It did inspire my son and I to write up some additional characters to try out, as well as try our hand at statting up some other hostiles - namely Orks & Necrons.
We've yet to play them, but the characters we put together were a 3-man team of guardsmen (Sergeant Rekk, Corporal Riley and Private Jones), a Primaris Intercessor (Brother Nicholas), A Necron Cryptarch (Oligarch the Seeker) a Fallen Dark Angel Space Marine Terminator (Angelo) and an Ork Nobz (Strogg). If I remember and anyone's interested, I'll try to put them up later.
Don't worry, it gets potentially more deadly the more you play. Being ambushed by 4 groups of enemies is a lot more dangerous when the first group is a Chaos Lord with 2 Chaos Space Marines and a blob of Traitor Guard. It also turns very bad really quickly with a few unlucky rolls.
Stormonu wrote: Finally got my copy and was able to play it today. Missed a rule here or there (notably, the reinforcement rule).
The game is fun, but it's a bit "easy mode". We only had one combat where anyone got hurt (one person underestimated Ur-Guls after we'd been blowing the crap out of the guardsmen), and we were able to resolve that pretty quickly anyways.
It did inspire my son and I to write up some additional characters to try out, as well as try our hand at statting up some other hostiles - namely Orks & Necrons.
We've yet to play them, but the characters we put together were a 3-man team of guardsmen (Sergeant Rekk, Corporal Riley and Private Jones), a Primaris Intercessor (Brother Nicholas), A Necron Cryptarch (Oligarch the Seeker) a Fallen Dark Angel Space Marine Terminator (Angelo) and an Ork Nobz (Strogg). If I remember and anyone's interested, I'll try to put them up later.
Don't worry, it gets potentially more deadly the more you play. Being ambushed by 4 groups of enemies is a lot more dangerous when the first group is a Chaos Lord with 2 Chaos Space Marines and a blob of Traitor Guard. It also turns very bad really quickly with a few unlucky rolls.
Funnily enough, we had an encounter with Obsidian Mallux & company already. We toasted him (and most of the guard) in a single turn (thanks to the lady with the flamethrower, mostly)
Stormonu wrote: Finally got my copy and was able to play it today. Missed a rule here or there (notably, the reinforcement rule).
The game is fun, but it's a bit "easy mode". We only had one combat where anyone got hurt (one person underestimated Ur-Guls after we'd been blowing the crap out of the guardsmen), and we were able to resolve that pretty quickly anyways.
It did inspire my son and I to write up some additional characters to try out, as well as try our hand at statting up some other hostiles - namely Orks & Necrons.
We've yet to play them, but the characters we put together were a 3-man team of guardsmen (Sergeant Rekk, Corporal Riley and Private Jones), a Primaris Intercessor (Brother Nicholas), A Necron Cryptarch (Oligarch the Seeker) a Fallen Dark Angel Space Marine Terminator (Angelo) and an Ork Nobz (Strogg). If I remember and anyone's interested, I'll try to put them up later.
The dark mech are scary as all heck. They outright killed our Man of Iron after ganging up on him 2 to 1 easily, with their denying defense rule.
One thing I am a bit miffed about is that the rules seem so scattered. It was really a pain to look things up because what you need could be in one of three different books, with no page numbers listed. It took us half an hour just to find the token chart explaining each token! (felt stupid after we found it, being on the back of one of the books and all) but I feel it could have been much, much better organized.
That said, I really like it! The models were fun to build, and I think will be fun to paint. The game itself is fun!
One thing I am a bit miffed about is that the rules seem so scattered. It was really a pain to look things up because what you need could be in one of three different books, with no page numbers listed. It took us half an hour just to find the token chart explaining each token! (felt stupid after we found it, being on the back of one of the books and all) but I feel it could have been much, much better organized.
That said, I really like it! The models were fun to build, and I think will be fun to paint. The game itself is fun!
We tested it with friend last night and i have the same opinion. Its because i was the only one who read the rules beforehand
Anyway the game is fun.
We also didnt know if arriving hostile reinforcements move or shoot. In the rules it says when they arrive they have to attack and if they dont have target they have to move (not charge). However just below this text it says hostiles are not activated. We assume they indeed shoot (or move) but its not an activation because its not a behaviour roll. Do we assume how it is supposed to be?
One thing I am a bit miffed about is that the rules seem so scattered. It was really a pain to look things up because what you need could be in one of three different books, with no page numbers listed. It took us half an hour just to find the token chart explaining each token! (felt stupid after we found it, being on the back of one of the books and all) but I feel it could have been much, much better organized.
The rule book with the tag "Read this first" start to make no sense halfway through, only explain until you open the "Combat" one with the tag "When combat occur", and GW actually think it is a good format.
Played our first test game the other night. Overall..."meh" is the feeling I came away with. Will reserve judgment until we play several more games. Doesn't look like it has the legs I was expecting it to have though (upon digging through the content).
Elbows wrote: Played our first test game the other night. Overall..."meh" is the feeling I came away with. Will reserve judgment until we play several more games. Doesn't look like it has the legs I was expecting it to have though (upon digging through the content).
Which will be how they expand the game and scope with a trickle release of models and rules.
Yeah I'm not trying to convince anyone to play it now. Maybe after a few expansions it'll come off the shelf. Still happy with the models, especially if they get kill team rules
I think its alright as it is, and has alot og potential.
The biggest thing it needs is a more tactically interesting variety of enemies.
As it stands now everything seems like stuff you want to keep at a distance amd shoot. The game needs to introduce an enemy that you the player actually want to get into CC with because the enemynis more dangerous at range, amd squishy close up.
Mix them into the enemy pool and then interesting things can happen!
Elbows wrote: Played our first test game the other night. Overall..."meh" is the feeling I came away with. Will reserve judgment until we play several more games. Doesn't look like it has the legs I was expecting it to have though (upon digging through the content).
First game is easy, it's the later ones when you're picking between the guys with loot and the guys without injuries things get more tense, as that's the same time the bigger baddies start coming in.
Or were you playing a proper pick up game with all the enemies?
Think after our third cultist/guard fight I was waning a little, then we had a ghoul and drone fight where the AI was different enough to keep it interesting (lots more hiding out of LOS rather than just weathering fire or darting around corners).
We played the first full expedition (minus one combat at the end when we got bored and bailed - having acquired more than enough archeotech and clues). While the game was not awful, it didn't give me any buzz about wanting to play it again immediately. I think the main disappointment is just how non-elegant the overall design ended up being. Dozens of ideas thrown together without massaging them into a logical, flowing, enjoyable game.
Again, will definitely be trying several more games, but I suspect this'll be a 3 month wonder and then disappear. Still happy with the minis, and confident I can pawn off some (painted, perhaps) and recoup the small chunk I paid for it. Not a big deal. Will see in a few weeks how I'm feeling about it.
Full disclosure; I design games as a hobby and small side-business. Normally a game like this would get me juiced up to make a bunch of fan-content. But the core mechanics aren't appealing to me yet (hell, I designed expansions for the WHQ Card Game when FFG dropped it!). So it's not about depth of baddies etc. - those are always easy to invent.
So, to those of you who've played Silver Tower, how do you think it compares?
Specifically, my group found ST really dumb and easy, until we artificially increased the difficulty, at which point it at least had a little tension, and was fun enough to run through the campaign and then again after several months; not fantastic, but pretty enjoyable.
How do you think BF would compare to that experience?
I found our first expedition too easy, and have seen numerous discussions to that effect. But can't really claim either way till I get more stuck in. It required little to no effort to blaze through the four combats of the expedition.
We played one general expedition with four combats (none of the challenges came up), got our clues, shopped at Precipice and then went after the first vault (Descent) [which had it's own 6 encounters before hitting the vault]. We missed the reinforcement rules section until we read the vault section, that was about the only "major" thing we got wrong. Our group consisted of the Rogue trader captain, the Kroot, the "Imperial" robot and the flamethrower-toting purifier. The only thing we didn't encounter were spindle drones; we fought everything else and even had an encounter with Obsidian Malleux, and killed him before he was able to act (with a small combination of luck and a LOT of strategy).
With that said, my opinion of the game is it's like watching a hollywood summer blockbuster. Shut your mind off and enjoy the explosions and the action-packed romp. The game's good fun, worth the price is you can get it at a discount, but don't expect a lot from it. It does have a lot of opportunity for expansion though, and I hope we'll see GW put out more content with both baddies and heroes you can throw into the game.
Stormonu wrote: It does have a lot of opportunity for expansion though, and I hope we'll see GW put out more content with both baddies and heroes you can throw into the game.
I think that's what a lot of us are banking on.
If Necromunda was GW's attempt at an 'Early Access' game, then Blackstone Fortress might be their 'Live Service' game.
Definitely agree about rules being scattered around. There’s really no reason to split the three up. And a summary of the turn sequence(s) would be really helpful.
It took us a really long time to find out that you could only cure grievous wounds by returning to precipice, for example. In fact it doesn’t say that you even remove them there except in the FAQ. It would be pretty simple for them to just say that, but instead they say that there’s no way to remove them during an “encounter” – when what I think they mean is “expedition”.
I played a bunch of BSF all day on Friday and Saturday morning. We did an expedition all the way through and then took down a stronghold. So we’re something like a quarter of the way through the campaign after maybe 12+ hours of play. It’s not a quick game you can play with friends – particularly not people who haven’t played before. You’ll want to seriously invest time in it, or not.
It’s fun though. The different characters are different enough for it to matter. I really like how the monsters have behaviour tables so they don’t all just act the same way.
All the different monsters are cool. Actually a fair few of the grievous wounds we suffered were caused by guardsmen with lasguns. Their aim action means that they can do a cover-ignoring shot from far away. On the other hand we quickly realised how scary negavolt cultists and the flamer guardsmen are, so we tended to nuke them down fast.
It’s a fun game overall but not a must-have. I’d quite like to use some of the great minis in 40k but that doesn’t look particularly feasible. I don’t get how the Imperial guys’ factions are supposed to work, as currently it doesn’t seem possible to include most of them in detachments.
It’s really annoying that the 40K datasheets attempt to limit you to adding only a single box’s content to a game. There’s absolutely no reason they should have limited the number of Negavolt, Rogue Psyker, Beastmen and most especially traitor guardsmen squads you can add to your army. It’s an aggravatingly stupid limitation that has no business existing.
Stormonu wrote: It’s really annoying that the 40K datasheets attempt to limit you to adding only a single box’s content to a game. There’s absolutely no reason they should have limited the number of Negavolt, Rogue Psyker, Beastmen and most especially traitor guardsmen squads you can add to your army. It’s an aggravatingly stupid limitation that has no business existing.
True, especially since the fortress is obviously full of loads of these guys.
I'm confused by the Imperial characters though. There doesn't seem to be any legal way to include some of them in a list, except maybe as auxiliary detachments. The ratlings, Kroot and Ranger fit into their armies with no problems though. I don't know if Taddius and Vorne will work for sisters lists - they may well cancel out the equivalent of chapter tactics unless they have a special rule, as they won't belong to a convent (or whatever they end up being called).
Well, in theory you can run any of them as their own auxiliary detachment, which only needs to share the <IMPERIUM> keyword. Though you'd lose a CP for it.
Stormonu wrote: It’s really annoying that the 40K datasheets attempt to limit you to adding only a single box’s content to a game. There’s absolutely no reason they should have limited the number of Negavolt, Rogue Psyker, Beastmen and most especially traitor guardsmen squads you can add to your army. It’s an aggravatingly stupid limitation that has no business existing.
Well, we all know why that limitation is there.
They make rules to fit the miniatures. You have 14 Traitor Guardsmen in the box, therefore the rules allow for no more and no less, armed exactly as the models are.
Stormonu wrote: It’s really annoying that the 40K datasheets attempt to limit you to adding only a single box’s content to a game. There’s absolutely no reason they should have limited the number of Negavolt, Rogue Psyker, Beastmen and most especially traitor guardsmen squads you can add to your army. It’s an aggravatingly stupid limitation that has no business existing.
Well, we all know why that limitation is there.
They make rules to fit the miniatures. You have 14 Traitor Guardsmen in the box, therefore the rules allow for no more and no less, armed exactly as the models are.
Elbows wrote: Having another box (or a buddy's set) would also increase the difficulty - being able to roll more reinforcements for your models/units.
That's something I've also been thinking about and I'm really considering buying another set of hostiles off ebay. Negavolt cultist spam in Kill Team would be an added bonus.
What I don't want to see are things like Farseers, Lieutenants, Warboss' etc starting to get involved as Explorers. They've got far better things to be getting on with, even for a prize such as a Blackstone. Simply put, the more important and higher ranked peeps are out of the game's scale.
Maybe for 'game balance' but in the setting itself, that's exactly who *would* show up there, looking to take over.
Not at all at this point. The Blackstone Fortress is not known enough yet for any armies to be sent there. And with no armies, youre not going to see Farseers or Warbosses there, and by the time they show up, there will already be a full-scale war as Yodhrin also painted out, with fleet engagements in the system. Precipice would most likely be abandoned at this point..
Messiah wrote: Not at all at this point. The Blackstone Fortress is not known enough yet for any armies to be sent there. And with no armies, youre not going to see Farseers or Warbosses there, and by the time they show up, there will already be a full-scale war as Yodhrin also painted out, with fleet engagements in the system. Precipice would most likely be abandoned at this point..
Why would a Farseer need anyone, never mind an army, to tell him/her about it?
Enough random mooks heard about it that their wrecked ships form a solar system sized debris field, but not a single governing body of any faction knows about it. Amazing.
The lore seemed pretty clear to me that warp paths o the area just recently opened up, and the Imperium -the most likely force to go sweeping through an ancient ships grave yard- is mostly occupied and already represented there by a rogue trader.
In effect, Draik IS the official investigation, at least on part of the Imperium.
It’s also in an area where, seemingly, no race has strategic assets close to.
It’s out in uncharted space, and the directions seem to be pretty much ‘over there, somewhere. Probably’, matched with expansive arm gestures.
In terms of military assets, now isn’t exactly the best time for any faction to go a-wandering. Especially given the extensive debris field around the Blackstone. You want your fleet to end up in there? Or send relatively covert agents to suss it out first?
Stormonu wrote: It’s really annoying that the 40K datasheets attempt to limit you to adding only a single box’s content to a game. There’s absolutely no reason they should have limited the number of Negavolt, Rogue Psyker, Beastmen and most especially traitor guardsmen squads you can add to your army. It’s an aggravatingly stupid limitation that has no business existing.
Well, we all know why that limitation is there.
They make rules to fit the miniatures. You have 14 Traitor Guardsmen in the box, therefore the rules allow for no more and no less, armed exactly as the models are.
So why don't they want to sell me another box?
Give it time, I'm willing to wager that both Dark Mech and Rouge Guard will be codexes before 2020 gets here.
Previous board games with 40k compatibility have not limited the use of infantry non unique models e.g Deathwatch Overkill, WHQ Silver Tower, Burning of Prospero custodes and sisters and Tartaros.
It’s almost a sideswipe at resellers who break down boxes.....
TwilightSparkles wrote: Previous board games with 40k compatibility have not limited the use of infantry non unique models e.g Deathwatch Overkill, WHQ Silver Tower, Burning of Prospero custodes and sisters and Tartaros.
It’s almost a sideswipe at resellers who break down boxes.....
About 90% sure that when DW:OK was released, at very least the DW half was limited to exactly the models and count that was in the boxed set.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Previous board games with 40k compatibility have not limited the use of infantry non unique models e.g Deathwatch Overkill, WHQ Silver Tower, Burning of Prospero custodes and sisters and Tartaros.
It’s almost a sideswipe at resellers who break down boxes.....
About 90% sure that when DW:OK was released, at very least the DW half was limited to exactly the models and count that was in the boxed set.
Precisely, it was even dumb enough that all the models were in one unit, leading to endless arguments how exactly unit consisting of foot marines, bikes, terminators and vanguard vets should move or if it should use 'run' rules or 'turbo boost' rules or advance or whatever (man, I almost forgot dumb bloat of past editions for a second...) with some jokers even arguing RAW it cannot move at all
Keeping the 40k rules to reflect the contents of the box also prevents waste.
You don't want the competitive 40k players buying up 5+ boxes of Blackstone Fortress, selling a bunch of stuff on e-bay and throwing away all the books and tokens. That's just a waste of material, encourages the 3rd party market to grow (which GW doesn't want), and puts strain on the supply of the Blackstone Fortress box.
Just look at the Kill Team starter set. It's a fantastic value of terrain and miniatures, but it's been in and out of stock since launch. I only bought one set, but I know plenty of people in the local store that bought three or more. Then, after release, guys that learned about Kill Team and wanted to get into it couldn't get their hands on a starter box and lost interest.
GW doesn't want something like that happening again. So instead of making a generic Chaos Lord datasheet with Thunder Hammer and his unlimited Traitor Guardsmen, they'll make strict datasheets that reflect the contents of the box. If the datasheets end up being super powerful somehow, netlisters and tournament players won't have need of any more than one, which keeps demand on the box predictable and stable.
lord_blackfang wrote: Enough random mooks heard about it that their wrecked ships form a solar system sized debris field, but not a single governing body of any faction knows about it. Amazing.
This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is. To fill just 1% of the dsc-shaped, planar (flat) region between Earth and the moon, you'd need 226,822,798 Battlefleet Gothic battlecruisers (assuming 10km long by 2km wide by 2km tall).
If you wanted to fill 1% of 1% (one 10,000th) of the Earth-Sun planar area, you'd need 35,342,887,500 battlecruisers.
If you're looking at the VOLUME of space, the numbers are truly astronomical. To fill one 10,000th of the Earth-Moon system's volume, you'd be looking at over one trillion battlecruisers.
angryboy2k wrote: This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is.
Yeah, you just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
drbored wrote: Keeping the 40k rules to reflect the contents of the box also prevents waste.
You don't want the competitive 40k players buying up 5+ boxes of Blackstone Fortress, selling a bunch of stuff on e-bay and throwing away all the books and tokens. That's just a waste of material, encourages the 3rd party market to grow (which GW doesn't want), and puts strain on the supply of the Blackstone Fortress box.
Just look at the Kill Team starter set. It's a fantastic value of terrain and miniatures, but it's been in and out of stock since launch. I only bought one set, but I know plenty of people in the local store that bought three or more. Then, after release, guys that learned about Kill Team and wanted to get into it couldn't get their hands on a starter box and lost interest.
GW doesn't want something like that happening again. So instead of making a generic Chaos Lord datasheet with Thunder Hammer and his unlimited Traitor Guardsmen, they'll make strict datasheets that reflect the contents of the box. If the datasheets end up being super powerful somehow, netlisters and tournament players won't have need of any more than one, which keeps demand on the box predictable and stable.
Yeah, like that was even ever a problem with running out of copies of Space Hulk, Calth, Prospero, Overkill, Forgebane, Wake the Dead or any of the other boxed sets that GW has produced where people bought the models and tossed the cardboard/booklets. It's not like they'd create more if there were demand for the minis...
lord_blackfang wrote: Enough random mooks heard about it that their wrecked ships form a solar system sized debris field, but not a single governing body of any faction knows about it. Amazing.
This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is. To fill just 1% of the dsc-shaped, planar (flat) region between Earth and the moon, you'd need 226,822,798 Battlefleet Gothic battlecruisers (assuming 10km long by 2km wide by 2km tall).
If you wanted to fill 1% of 1% (one 10,000th) of the Earth-Sun planar area, you'd need 35,342,887,500 battlecruisers.
If you're looking at the VOLUME of space, the numbers are truly astronomical. To fill one 10,000th of the Earth-Moon system's volume, you'd be looking at over one trillion battlecruisers.
The debris field is described in some places as 1 million miles across - twice the diameter of the moon's orbit around the earth, but about 1% of the Earth's orbit around the sun. Also, it's not solid, just sufficiently dense as to be a navigation hazard (with the possible complication of having active defences and hostile vessels amongst the debris. I imagine it's denser towards the centre, too. Also, who knows how long it's been there? Has it been luring ships in since T. rex walked the earth?
lord_blackfang wrote: Enough random mooks heard about it that their wrecked ships form a solar system sized debris field, but not a single governing body of any faction knows about it. Amazing.
This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is. To fill just 1% of the dsc-shaped, planar (flat) region between Earth and the moon, you'd need 226,822,798 Battlefleet Gothic battlecruisers (assuming 10km long by 2km wide by 2km tall).
If you wanted to fill 1% of 1% (one 10,000th) of the Earth-Sun planar area, you'd need 35,342,887,500 battlecruisers.
If you're looking at the VOLUME of space, the numbers are truly astronomical. To fill one 10,000th of the Earth-Moon system's volume, you'd be looking at over one trillion battlecruisers.
The debris field is described in some places as 1 million miles across - twice the diameter of the moon's orbit around the earth, but about 1% of the Earth's orbit around the sun. Also, it's not solid, just sufficiently dense as to be a navigation hazard (with the possible complication of having active defences and hostile vessels amongst the debris. I imagine it's denser towards the centre, too. Also, who knows how long it's been there? Has it been luring ships in since T. rex walked the earth?
In the UR-025 sort story (Black Library Advent), they encounter the skeletal remains of alien explorers whose race died off well before the Great Crusade. So the Fortress has definitely been drawing in people for quite a while.
Stormonu wrote: It’s really annoying that the 40K datasheets attempt to limit you to adding only a single box’s content to a game. There’s absolutely no reason they should have limited the number of Negavolt, Rogue Psyker, Beastmen and most especially traitor guardsmen squads you can add to your army. It’s an aggravatingly stupid limitation that has no business existing.
Well, we all know why that limitation is there.
They make rules to fit the miniatures. You have 14 Traitor Guardsmen in the box, therefore the rules allow for no more and no less, armed exactly as the models are.
So why don't they want to sell me another box?
Give it time, I'm willing to wager that both Dark Mech and Rouge Guard will be codexes before 2020 gets here.
Ahh, the Rouge Guard. Defending the Emperor's Make-up Box for over 10,000 years
Other wise, I am expecting at least one new Chaos Codex. More than one would be nice, but could be compiled into a single volume.
lord_blackfang wrote: Enough random mooks heard about it that their wrecked ships form a solar system sized debris field, but not a single governing body of any faction knows about it. Amazing.
This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is. To fill just 1% of the dsc-shaped, planar (flat) region between Earth and the moon, you'd need 226,822,798 Battlefleet Gothic battlecruisers (assuming 10km long by 2km wide by 2km tall).
If you wanted to fill 1% of 1% (one 10,000th) of the Earth-Sun planar area, you'd need 35,342,887,500 battlecruisers.
If you're looking at the VOLUME of space, the numbers are truly astronomical. To fill one 10,000th of the Earth-Moon system's volume, you'd be looking at over one trillion battlecruisers.
The debris field is described in some places as 1 million miles across - twice the diameter of the moon's orbit around the earth, but about 1% of the Earth's orbit around the sun. Also, it's not solid, just sufficiently dense as to be a navigation hazard (with the possible complication of having active defences and hostile vessels amongst the debris. I imagine it's denser towards the centre, too. Also, who knows how long it's been there? Has it been luring ships in since T. rex walked the earth?
So at twice the diameter of the moon's orbit, you'd be looking at four times the area. I don't know how full it'd need to be to represent a navigation hazard, but at a density of 1% wrecked ships, you'd still be looking at 900 million wrecked ships.
However, I don't see how a flat disc of debris would represent a substantial navigational hazard unless it were impossible to somehow go around it. If it were a CLOUD of debris of roughly spherical shape, 1 million miles across, an average debris density of just 0.001% (one part in 100,000) would be the equivalent of 4,289,317,546,667 Battlefleet Gothic-type of battlecruisers. If the Blackstone Fortress has been attracting spacecraft since the end of the age of the dinosaurs (65 million years ago), it would have been bringing them in at the rate of 65,990 spaceships per year. That's 181 battlecruiser-equivalents every single day, for the last 65 million years.
angryboy2k wrote: This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is.
Yeah, you just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams FTW! He knew what he was talking about.
It's debris, not whole ships- I'd suppose that there is far more danger from relatively tiny pieces of debris that are still able to dage a ship if they strike it, like what happens in the sample chapter of the novel.
Could something like that may reduce the over all density of proper ships in the cloud while making it more dangerous?
It's only a navigation hazard if you're trying to get to the fortress. I could see it being a generally flat disc with a thicker middle around the station itself - like the galaxy.
That said, this is something that washed up when the Rift opened, there's no guarantee all these ships are from the past or from this material plane.
Plus we're not talking navigational hazards as things you need to steer past - sublight speed is still very fast and ships turn poorly. Anything that makes you slow down from a full fusion burn from the edge of the system is a serious hazard and if most wrecks are dark, and there are that many of them, it'll take time to find a safe path through using minimal burns.
If you're talking about a distance of light minutes, you're not going to want to add many acceleration or deceleration steps. You probably won't crash and explode due to pilot error, but you might add weeks or months spent at low speeds, lit up like a Christmas tree in a place infested with pirates and rivals.
Not to mention the fact that then everyone knows exactly where you are when you stop at the properly dense bit to send shuttles in.
lord_blackfang wrote: Enough random mooks heard about it that their wrecked ships form a solar system sized debris field, but not a single governing body of any faction knows about it. Amazing.
This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is. To fill just 1% of the dsc-shaped, planar (flat) region between Earth and the moon, you'd need 226,822,798 Battlefleet Gothic battlecruisers (assuming 10km long by 2km wide by 2km tall).
If you wanted to fill 1% of 1% (one 10,000th) of the Earth-Sun planar area, you'd need 35,342,887,500 battlecruisers.
If you're looking at the VOLUME of space, the numbers are truly astronomical. To fill one 10,000th of the Earth-Moon system's volume, you'd be looking at over one trillion battlecruisers.
timd wrote: Imperial cruisers were originally 3km, but were retconned to 5km when the Rogue Trader RPG from FFG came out.
Then you'd need even more of them...
Carlovonsexron wrote: It's debris, not whole ships- I'd suppose that there is far more danger from relatively tiny pieces of debris that are still able to dage a ship if they strike it, like what happens in the sample chapter of the novel.
Could something like that may reduce the over all density of proper ships in the cloud while making it more dangerous?
I guess that discussing the danger of the size of the debris is difficult to do without understanding the role of spacecraft shields. Similarly for the navigation hazard such debris poses. All I'm suggesting is that for the debris cloud to actually present as a "cloud", we're talking about a phenomenally large number of spaceships - or pieces of spaceships, and in that respect the number of intact ships in the cloud isn't important if we're talking about average density. One ship of 10km x 2km x 2km occupies the same total volume of space if it's in 10,000 pieces or one piece.
Really, I'm just pointing out that space is really big and I feel the debris field is an example of how hard that is to understand. When we think about the asteroid belt, for example, we might be tempted to think of the scene in Empire Strikes Back with rocks flying about everywhere, but the actual asteroid belt is mostly empty. In fact, Our moon has 25 times more mass than all of the objects in the belt, and the average distance between asteroids is 100,000 miles. They don't really present a navigation hazard to space probes. Another good example is the Earth-Moon distance. Being geeks, we're probably all aware that the distance is about a quarter of a million miles. I don't know if we really conceive of that as being a distance in which you could drop THIRTY Earths.
As far as void shields go tje article on lexicanum states they can't defemd against ships moving through them for boarding actions, so perhaps thats why a debris field is so dangerous.
In that case, a ship broken up into a million pieces zipping around in chunks large enough to cause damage as the the void shieds wont work is a pretty iffy prospect to fly into.
Or even physical - old starship reactors with leaky shielding, ancient distress beacons or old automated defensive systems could all interfere with sensors or communication.
Come on, guys, just admit (to yourselves) that GW cannot do math and literal millions of vagabonds knowing about this priceless treasure for thousands of years while no major galactic power does is a silly plot hole and move on. There's no need to justify every single nonsense.
lord_blackfang wrote: Come on, guys, just admit (to yourselves) that GW cannot do math and literal millions of vagabonds knowing about this priceless treasure for thousands of years while no major galactic power does is a silly plot hole and move on. There's no need to justify every single nonsense.
I don't care about the numbers; a million miles, a whole star system, irrelevant. I was just talking about how the debris field could affect shipping without necessarily being literally too dense for them to fit. Makes for a more interesting conversation, IMO, than "hur hur, these numbers don;'t make sense, aren't GW stupid!"
angryboy2k wrote: However, I don't see how a flat disc of debris would represent a substantial navigational hazard unless it were impossible to somehow go around it. If it were a CLOUD of debris of roughly spherical shape, 1 million miles across, an average debris density of just 0.001% (one part in 100,000) would be the equivalent of 4,289,317,546,667 Battlefleet Gothic-type of battlecruisers. If the Blackstone Fortress has been attracting spacecraft since the end of the age of the dinosaurs (65 million years ago), it would have been bringing them in at the rate of 65,990 spaceships per year. That's 181 battlecruiser-equivalents every single day, for the last 65 million years.
Eh, one part in 100.000 would be ridiculously, pointlessly dense. Look up Kessler syndrome (which would apply here too), we're close to creating a deadly debris field several thousand kilometers across that will get progressively worse with collision cascades, and last time I checked we didn't built any battlecruisers yet. In fact, collision of just two battlecruisers might fill a vast area of space with bits of superdense armor, radioactive reactor fragments, live munitions, etc etc, all stuff you'd want to avoid if you were in a pretty, still functioning ship...
And I don't get they people say it would be hard to get close to BSF. This is actually one mission SM would be perfect for - park battle barge on the outskirts of the system, send in thunderhawks and smaller gunships in, there, done, no need to maneuver big ship in, you can do so stealthily, etc, and the game seems suited to SM kill team level better than what we got, anyway. Four humans gunning down endless waves of xenos and traitor guard? Not to mention CSM? That sounds more like a job for Astartes, not two ratlings, to me anyway.
I especially like how whole packs of ur-ghuls are just speedbumps for protagonists, when ADB had a single ghul decimate a whole DW kill team in his comical comic, in one of the greatest shows of jobbing this side of The Beast Arises
There's no Space Marines there because they've all got better things to do fighting Chaos in the rest of the galaxy. Look at the map in the rulebook; this place is way off the western edge of explored space - past Ultima Macharia which itself was off the edge of the star charts before Lord Solar Macharius undertook his crusade, and the Imperium didn't hold onto that anyway. This place is the far edge of nowhere, and the Imperium (in the person of Janus Draik) has only just heard of it. In fact, since Draik wants to loot it for his own benefit, he's almost certainly holding off on filing a full report with the Administratum - which will then take decades or more to filter through to someone who'll make a decision about it.
With how they made the fortress they could easily made up some Marine from Gummy Bear chapter that got his ship and chapter suck into the fortress, now he lost and wander until the other explorer found him, and he vow to find his lost comrade.
Chopstick wrote: With how they made the fortress they could easily made up some Marine from Gummy Bear chapter that got his ship and chapter suck into the fortress, now he lost and wander until the other explorer found him, and he vow to find his lost comrade.
hey Dakka, i'm in desperate need of help;
google search is fething useless, i just scrolled through 35 pages of BOLS and 69 pages of this thread;
I am searching for plastic / 3d print hex tiles which looked PERFECT for blackstone fortress, I am absolutely sure having seen them pictured with the blackstone adventurers for scale;
its essentially 6 flat hexes and a center hex with a dark crystal kinda thingamabob about infantry height,
The big black ones? I've got nine, plus the smaller one for storing Legacy cards. There were also three ordinary clear baggies in the bottom of the box for you to do with as you wish; I keep the tokens in mine.
I know there’s a breakdown of the card decks and counts in the rules booklet. I don’t recall if that page has the rest of the components listed or not but it should.
The back of one of the books shows most, if not all, the counters. no quantities, but that doesn't matter - you'll either get a whole missing sheet or not (and they're usually labelled "Blackstone Fortress 1 of x"). I'm pretty sure it says you should get 8 "stasis chamber" bags and one Legacy bag; looks like they upped the Stasis Chambers to 9 since the Exploration cards don't fit in the Legacy bag like the rules tell you to do.
I was missing two of the 32mm bases with slot and hole for the Beastmen; I emailed about that and they sent out ... 2 40mm bases with two holes instead. I need to get back to them about that.
After a successful adventure in the Blackstone Fortress – and a desperate escape from a fearsome enemy – the ratling twins Raus and Rein return to Precipice to sell their hard-won spoils, leaving their drukhari foe for dead. But it's not that easy to kill a denizen of the Dark City… As they try to offload their haul in the markets of Precipice, the day quickly spirals out of control as their past catches up with them in more ways than one – can the twins possibly escape the enemies coming their way?
"But it's not that easy to kill a denizen of the Dark City…" So there are Delaques on Blackstone Fortress?
T
BrookM wrote: Today's advent story is about the Ratling twins.
After a successful adventure in the Blackstone Fortress – and a desperate escape from a fearsome enemy – the ratling twins Raus and Rein return to Precipice to sell their hard-won spoils, leaving their drukhari foe for dead. But it's not that easy to kill a denizen of the Dark City… As they try to offload their haul in the markets of Precipice, the day quickly spirals out of control as their past catches up with them in more ways than one – can the twins possibly escape the enemies coming their way?
If you’ve been playing Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress and you’re already hungry for more, you won’t have to wait long – 2019 will see new models for this game of dark quests, and new expansions to boot. If you thought a Man of Iron was cool, you haven’t seen anything yet
Some new things coming.
Models, cooler than the Man of Iron? Sounds good!
Some expansions, plural, coming. Which is great to hear.
I really don't care for expansions so long as I put Sly into the game. Also, would it kill them to add anyone from Age of Sigmar? Or do they not remember Talisman Timescape?
If you’ve been playing Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress and you’re already hungry for more, you won’t have to wait long – 2019 will see new models for this game of dark quests, and new expansions to boot. If you thought a Man of Iron was cool, you haven’t seen anything yet
Cooler than a Man of Iron? A Zoat would probably do it for me, either as a explorer or an adversary.
Or an expansion of the Spindle drones.
Or an actual Squat.
Or a new type of Ynnari Eldar.
Or...…..
This is going to be the longest three day week ever
I was actually thinking of an expansion with spindle drone or original Blackstone Fortress inhabitants/protectors. Would be an awesome addition to the actual feeling of the place.
Pacific wrote: Has anyone had a chance to have a play yet?
Some absolutely lovely looking miniatures and set but would be keen to read some comments from Dakkanaughts.
I've been through two missions, it has a steep learning curve. As usual, the GW rules team was drunk at the ship, there are many things you have to either house rule, or dig through the internet to find a good interpenetration for. I still recommend it though, once you work out the kinks, it's fun and the models are great!
Pacific wrote: Has anyone had a chance to have a play yet?
Some absolutely lovely looking miniatures and set but would be keen to read some comments from Dakkanaughts.
I've been through two missions, it has a steep learning curve. As usual, the GW rules team was drunk at the ship, there are many things you have to either house rule, or dig through the internet to find a good interpenetration for. I still recommend it though, once you work out the kinks, it's fun and the models are great!
I'm curious what needed interpretation? I've played for one evening so far, and didn't run across anything I thought needed explanation. Everything made sense to me.
Wasn't there a Squat miniature floating around in the rumor section somewhere? Looked like a perfect fit for Blackstone Fortress, since it's one of the neglected factions and it looked sort of like an explorer/mercenary type.
Pacific wrote: Has anyone had a chance to have a play yet?
Some absolutely lovely looking miniatures and set but would be keen to read some comments from Dakkanaughts.
I've been through two missions, it has a steep learning curve. As usual, the GW rules team was drunk at the ship, there are many things you have to either house rule, or dig through the internet to find a good interpenetration for. I still recommend it though, once you work out the kinks, it's fun and the models are great!
I'm curious what needed interpretation? I've played for one evening so far, and didn't run across anything I thought needed explanation. Everything made sense to me.
Same for me. I thought the rules were pretty clear and solid. They are, however, fragmented across multiple books and not always in the clearest of locations. I like the Legacy style modifications to the decks as you go further in. I think I've been quite lucky with the draws so far, in that I've done a few trips into the Fortress now and still havn't drawn any harder enemies to fight.
Aeldari from craftworld Altansar would be a cool treat, and would probably bring something exiting to the fluff.
But then again, their fluff might be better left in mystery.
Pacific wrote: Has anyone had a chance to have a play yet?
Some absolutely lovely looking miniatures and set but would be keen to read some comments from Dakkanaughts.
I've been through two missions, it has a steep learning curve. As usual, the GW rules team was drunk at the ship, there are many things you have to either house rule, or dig through the internet to find a good interpenetration for. I still recommend it though, once you work out the kinks, it's fun and the models are great!
I'm curious what needed interpretation? I've played for one evening so far, and didn't run across anything I thought needed explanation. Everything made sense to me.
Same for me. I thought the rules were pretty clear and solid. They are, however, fragmented across multiple books and not always in the clearest of locations. I like the Legacy style modifications to the decks as you go further in. I think I've been quite lucky with the draws so far, in that I've done a few trips into the Fortress now and still havn't drawn any harder enemies to fight.
I've only played a few one-offs and I am more than happy. The only thing that could be keeping me from playing the story is the legacy deck. I'd wish they let you draw it only after you leave the expedition....
Tastyfish wrote: I don't think "another squat" really fills the niche of "thought a Man of Iron was unexpected?".
Another Avenger but 40K ified.
Sigmarinewith thunderhammer
Sigmarine with indestructible shield
Ebony Panther Eldar from a lost shrineworld (or from a world that we thought had no shrines)
A human scientist that changes into a giant orange jokero when he doesn’t want to
A female spindle drone that’s hot
A necron who remembers who he is and can phase through stuff
Really the cast can go on and on. Just no mutants , they were sold to chaos in a stupid money grab years ago.
Though Slaan behind the drones and fortress itself would be interesting.
What I'd really want is crossover material with 40k. Either more chaos cults stuff, or feeler forces for new Xenos armies.
Yes, fishmen. Because a fresh take on the concept with modern sculpting and mold precision would give you that “feeler force” for a new xenos army, one that wouldnt have a direct cognate in fantasy. (though if it ever became an army Im sure idoneth deepkin stuff would end up appropriated for conversions)
Thanks for comments guys - key word I was looking there for was 'fun'.
Some rules idiosyncrasies I can live with, as I love the concept of this one and the element of continuity. Also the fact that it seems like the most imaginative concept GW has put forward in some years!
Though Slaan behind the drones and fortress itself would be interesting.
Weren't Slaan ret-conned into the 'old ones' or similar?
I have to be honest, although it's going back some years I don't think I ever saw or heard of anyone playing with a Slaan force. A couple of miniatures in a display cabinet and I think that was it!
They would certainly be an odd choice to re-introduce.
Really the cast can go on and on. Just no mutants , they were sold to chaos in a stupid money grab years ago.
Imperial beastmen are back in the lore, so I wouldn't be against a datasheet for Gor Half-horn to be added
I can’t tell whether you missed the joke or not..
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Tastyfish wrote: I don't think "another squat" really fills the niche of "thought a Man of Iron was unexpected?".
It doesn’t have to?
I don’t think they are saying there will only be one more character who will be an unexpected one.
Just that one of the characters coming probably will be
Tastyfish wrote: I don't think "another squat" really fills the niche of "thought a Man of Iron was unexpected?".
It doesn’t have to?
I don’t think they are saying there will only be one more character who will be an unexpected one.
Just that one of the characters coming probably will be
They didn't even said it will be a character, it could be unexpected enemies
No one else thinks Hrud? I feel like this is a great way to introduce Space Skaven without having to make a whole army of them (since 40k Orks already fill all the same niches)
Malkyr wrote: No one else thinks Hrud? I feel like this is a great way to introduce Space Skaven without having to make a whole army of them (since 40k Orks already fill all the same niches)
If it is hrud I hope they go with the much more sci-fi version rather than ratmen in space....
Space Slann are the only exception to that rule (no more fantasy races in spaaaaaace) for me, but even then I'd prefer a more unique reptile/amphibian xenos species.
I've been through two missions, it has a steep learning curve. As usual, the GW rules team was drunk at the ship, there are many things you have to either house rule, or dig through the internet to find a good interpenetration for. I still recommend it though, once you work out the kinks, it's fun and the models are great!
Curious what you have to house-rule. With several explorations and one Stronghold finished, my group has not encountered anything that isn't covered by the rules. Admittedly the rules aren't in a clearly laid out order, but they're all there.
, they were sold to chaos in a stupid money grab years ago.
