Switch Theme:

Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit  [RSS] 

No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 03:31:54


Post by: flandarz


They'll make a Kroot Codex before they make a Grot Codex. But I agree that Grot units need more goodies.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 04:11:14


Post by: Vineheart01


Grots in the fluff have a much MUCH bigger presence than the codex would let you believe.

Theres a reason ork players have wanted a grot boss for quite a long time. They exist, theres even grot weirdboy equivs.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 05:08:03


Post by: flandarz


I'm not saying we don't need more stuff for Grots. Just saying that I doubt it would necessitate a full Codex for them. Maybe a supplement...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 06:15:04


Post by: Jidmah


cody.d. wrote:
Orks should ally with chaos demons as they have some lore that suggests this happens. Specifically khorne and nurgle.


Hilariously it would fit the fluff. Back in second edition there was indeed Khorne worshiping Orks and even a story listing the universes least lucky genestealer cult that just so happened to infect some orks.

If there was a faction that could work as universal allies it would be Orks. I'm honestly surprised Blood Axes didn't get that as a trait or rule, being the ultimate mercenary group.


The fluff allows plenty of potential allies:
- Imperial Guard/Inquisition: There have been both guard forces going traitor and joining the orks (Von Straab on Armageddon), as well as Commanders and Inquisitors hiring ork mercenaries to attack their enemies (all over the fluff)
- Craftworld Eldar: Eldar have coaxed ork warbosses to work for them with either false promises and mind control. It has backfired on them as often as not
- Chaos Space Marines: Orks have a long-going hate-love for 'dem spiky boyz. They join sides on a whim, either is hired as mercenaries by the other or the orks are corrupted by the chaos gods to further their goals. The Black Legion, World Eaters, Death Guard and Alpha Legion have a history of working with orks at some point, as do many of the smaller splinter factions.
- Chaos Daemons: Khorne and Orks go along pretty well, but there is also Nurgle infecting them or Tzeench tricking them into fighting through illusions. I don't think there was ever a mention of Slanesh daemons cooperating with orks though.

And that's only the stuff I'm aware of. There are probably some more in the novels.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 08:08:42


Post by: Waaaghbert


blaktoof wrote:
It would be sweet if they made a Grot codex, and really fleshed out the grot range like goblins in AoS but for 40k.

Would give ally options for orks.


Yeah, because orks aren't horde enough Kidding aside, I'll switch to grots ASAP


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 09:03:21


Post by: PiñaColada


Yeah, I can't imagine anyone wanting grots to stay as peripheral as they are now in the codex. I really want GW to give us some more options when it comes to grots. Obviously in a dream scenario this includes new models. I'm personally a big proponent of us getting Grot sharpshootas (basically IG ratlings) & the ability to add heavy weapons teams into our grot troop squads (rokkit launcha, supa shoota, big shoota or grotzookas).

If we don't get any new models there might be some AoS stuff they can just write rules for in 40k (like they did with the mutalith for 1k sons). Most of the gloomspite gitz look a bit too AoS IMO but I can see the sneaky snufflers being something in 40k as well, similar idea to their rule in AoS. They can buff units to the point of that unit tripping balls. I also think the normal squig herd could work.

If we don't get new rules for AoS units either then a simple WD supplement would be a good idea. Give grots lesser kulturs of which clan they belong to. I made a rough draft of how this idea would work a couple of months back. These aren't meant to be a finalised suggestion but more a rough draft of how the idea would work in practice. I dow however think that killa kanz should probably be completely exempt from the grot rule, meaning they'd get both kulturs and access to strats. We also discussed in the Fix Orks thread that giving them the "Psycho dakka blasta!" rule from the stompa would make them a lot more fun and viable.
Spoiler:

Evil Sunz: Get +1" move
Bad Moons: Reroll 1's on their dakkadakkadakka sots (this one is tough, since Mek Gunz don't need a buff)
Snakesbites: Get a 6+ FnP if the strength of the shot fired is less than double the toughness of the unit and damage 1
Deffskullz: Get a 6++ invuln if the strength of the the shot is less than double the toughness of the unit and damage 1
Blood Axes: Get the cover bonus thing
Freebootas: They already sort of get the bonus by being able to trigger it
Goffs: Maybe the entire bonus since it's only good on killa kanz?


Edit: Just to clarify, I don't think the squig herd should be a new unit necessarily but rather an upgrade option for the grot units. Say that every 1 in 10 grots can be a squig herder. Each squig herder can bring up to 3 squigs and these squigs don't count towards the unit total. Meaning you can bring 3 squig herders in a 30 grot blob and up to 9 squigs. The squigs are similar to the Warboss' attack squig in statline but they hit on 4's. So their statline would be something like this.
M6" WS4+ BS- S4 T3 W1 A2 Ld4+ Sv6+
Squig teeth: Melee S User AP-1 D1

Just make the squig herders the same cost as normal ggrots (or maybe 4 points) and the squigs cheap enough to be brought as well. They're basically just meant to bring a little bit of bite in CC so that non dedicated melee units might think twice about charging the grots. The squigs won't benefit from surprisingly dangerous in large numbers. I doubt this will happen but the gloomspite gitz got some great new kits and this is an easy way of weaving them into 40k.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 13:30:41


Post by: G00fySmiley


While I think that a grot codex / army would be cool I do not think the game needs more factions. don't get me wrogn if GW is looking around to actually make another army then please make it, but at this point there are already so many factions.

If they do make a grot codex it would be col to have grotsa with actual guns, like ratling snipers but gretchen or little grot tanks throwing out BS4 rokkits. maybe add some like trap rules as i could see the little buggers setting traps in terrain to slow down invaders rather than direct confrontations.

If we look at the game as a whole and rather than openign up Allies GW went the new codexii route

Codex gretchin: mostly ranged army functionally similar to Tau/guard

Codex Tau allies: expantd croot, add some imperial guard units/soldiers and some kind of close combat race that fights with them as a melee threat

Codex Necron new empire: since new necrons are actually reaching out and becoming a part of the galaxy it might be cool for them to work with a few new alien races that humanity has driven to the fringes of the galaxy. lots of room for creativity here and cool new out there modeling options.

but obviously if going that way GW should go gretchen first.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 15:39:52


Post by: Coh Magnussen


I'd just be happy with some grot units that are actually worth taking. Shoot, I'd be happy with the grot units we already have (including grot tanks throwing rokkits at BS 4+) if they could get a little kultur or be strategemized. Don't get me wrong, some gretchin snipers would be simply awesome, but GW seems to hate the poor grots as anything but meatshields :(.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 19:50:03


Post by: Emicrania


The problems i ser are:

Warbikes: a bit overpriced
Burnaz: useless in both their role for their price, as flamer unit and as close combat unit
New buggies: 25% overpriced
Mek gunz: they should have the clan abilities
Lootasbomb: too low armour
Nobz:: too low armour
Painboy: way too expensive
Killa kanZ: too pricey, they need kultur and need something to boost that LD
Warboss: they need Invu
Runtherd: like 300% overpriced
Stormboyz: need 5+ save
Nob with banner: 15-20pts too expensive
Flash Gits: need at least 30" range
Flyers: need 3+

Forgot about the Stompas price:






Sorry if it is not in order but I'm writing this minirant from work.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 20:03:00


Post by: Vineheart01


i'd probably agree with that entire list except regular nobz having better armor.
4+ is fine for them imo. Orks dont have super good armor unless theyre rocking Mega Armor which also slows them down. Only a SINGLE non-walker entry in the codex has a 3+ save or ever had one and thats Badrukk who has special looted stuff.
Granting Nobz a built-in Cybork for a painboy-free FNP (no cost, seriously 5pts for that crap? zog off) would be better imo (and give them a special case Cybork that goes to a 5+ if snake bites?)
Alternatively, just drop their points more. Problem with that is theyre already 2x a boy model and shortening that gap could prove problematic.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 21:24:58


Post by: flandarz


Yeah. I think what we really need is some point drops. Orkz aren't meant to be durable. We're cheap and expendable. We win by throwing bodies at a problem until it goes away. What we got now are troops designed to be expendable, but at prices that make losing them hurt too much.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 21:31:49


Post by: Emicrania


 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd probably agree with that entire list except regular nobz having better armor.
4+ is fine for them imo. Orks dont have super good armor unless theyre rocking Mega Armor which also slows them down. Only a SINGLE non-walker entry in the codex has a 3+ save or ever had one and thats Badrukk who has special looted stuff.
Granting Nobz a built-in Cybork for a painboy-free FNP (no cost, seriously 5pts for that crap? zog off) would be better imo (and give them a special case Cybork that goes to a 5+ if snake bites?)
Alternatively, just drop their points more. Problem with that is theyre already 2x a boy model and shortening that gap could prove problematic.



Really good idea. I second that


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 22:45:10


Post by: flaming tadpole


If Stompa's were brought down to like 650 I think it'd be decent(ish).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/27 22:49:50


Post by: Vineheart01


even at that price im sketchy on it.
That 4th damage track just ruins it imo. It might as well not even have the last 10 or whatever the threshold was wounds.
Also it needs a freakin' invul. The only reason those super big things survive is they have invul saves, GargSquig is a prime example of this. It can die super fast if hit with multiple D6 damage attacks or gets into melee with something that it cant kill immediately/charged it and has a proper killy melee attack.

KFF is nice but it not only demands an 80-310pt tax (depending on choice of it) but it doesnt work in melee and theres a LOT of things you really, really dont want our stompa/gargsquig to face in melee.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 02:19:06


Post by: Grimskul


 Vineheart01 wrote:
even at that price im sketchy on it.
That 4th damage track just ruins it imo. It might as well not even have the last 10 or whatever the threshold was wounds.
Also it needs a freakin' invul. The only reason those super big things survive is they have invul saves, GargSquig is a prime example of this. It can die super fast if hit with multiple D6 damage attacks or gets into melee with something that it cant kill immediately/charged it and has a proper killy melee attack.

KFF is nice but it not only demands an 80-310pt tax (depending on choice of it) but it doesnt work in melee and theres a LOT of things you really, really dont want our stompa/gargsquig to face in melee.


Yeah, in a world where knights run around rampant and smash captains fly about, it's mind-boggling that the Stompa doesn't get some sort of perma-invuln. considering its a walking skrap-heap of a monster. Fix the bizarre wounds degradation table to be less punishing, give it a base 5++ invuln. (change the recent relic from Vigilus to give a 4++ instead, even though its not like anyone would take that detachment anyways...).

Also, regarding Nobz in the previous posts, I think just giving them unit wide access to Cybork bodies (i.e., not 1 in 5) and making cybork bodies a 5++ save would be a one and done deal. Make it accessible for our characters as well and BAM, it solves one of our basic issues regarding survivability for HQ's.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 02:56:31


Post by: Trimarius


 Grimskul wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
even at that price im sketchy on it.
That 4th damage track just ruins it imo. It might as well not even have the last 10 or whatever the threshold was wounds.
Also it needs a freakin' invul. The only reason those super big things survive is they have invul saves, GargSquig is a prime example of this. It can die super fast if hit with multiple D6 damage attacks or gets into melee with something that it cant kill immediately/charged it and has a proper killy melee attack.

KFF is nice but it not only demands an 80-310pt tax (depending on choice of it) but it doesnt work in melee and theres a LOT of things you really, really dont want our stompa/gargsquig to face in melee.


Yeah, in a world where knights run around rampant and smash captains fly about, it's mind-boggling that the Stompa doesn't get some sort of perma-invuln. considering its a walking skrap-heap of a monster. Fix the bizarre wounds degradation table to be less punishing, give it a base 5++ invuln. (change the recent relic from Vigilus to give a 4++ instead, even though its not like anyone would take that detachment anyways...).

Also, regarding Nobz in the previous posts, I think just giving them unit wide access to Cybork bodies (i.e., not 1 in 5) and making cybork bodies a 5++ save would be a one and done deal. Make it accessible for our characters as well and BAM, it solves one of our basic issues regarding survivability for HQ's.


Beyond the obvious insanity of the point cost (seriously, I have no idea where they could possibly have reached that number from), I agree that the stompa does need something to keep it alive, but I don't think an invul is the way to go. That sort of tech is limited to a mek's special projects, not cranked out on an assembly line like they are for the imperium. An option for a kff would be fine (meks do love to tinker), but as there's no part in the kit that seems unlikely. I'd rather it get a better version of ramshackle, instead, and improve its survivability by dropping shots to one damage on a 4+. Against a d6 weapon that works out to about a 5++ (2.25 average damage vs. 2.33 from the invul), with it being worse against low damage hits and better against higher. That "feels" more like the Orkish randomness they want (including using more dice, but I don't mind on a super-heavy) and less like a copy-paste from imperial stuff while also leaving open the option for a kff nearby to actually help out more.

That extra degradation step needs to go, though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 03:55:25


Post by: G00fySmiley


 flaming tadpole wrote:
If Stompa's were brought down to like 650 I think it'd be decent(ish).


having run the codex stompa several times. it loses to the castellan before ever reaching it and the castellan has better strategies. it loses to a pair of most types of knights which arte also less points. one of the biggest issues as mentioned byu others is a lack of invunerable save.

essentuall a castellan even with the 5++ has the equivilant of 1/3 more wounds due to ignoring high ap weapons. so that 28 wounds is the equivilant of 37 stompa wounds. with better guns... for 60% of the price.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 07:21:32


Post by: hollow one


juanonymous wrote:
Let’s not forget that, leading up to the LVO, orks were perhaps The biggest boogeyman for anyone looking to build a list themed against the meta. Saying orks are bid simply because of the LVO results is a bit too early of an assessment in my opinion. What’s more, isn’t assessing their place in the meta kind of irrelevant to a tactics thread (unless it’s another codex’s thread trying to convince that orks are no big deal), at least without offering solutions to what weaknesses are being cited? Unless the goal is to just shut down the thread?
Sorry, no intention to flame or point fingers at anybody, just an amateur player looking to keep the tactics conversation going
You're in the wrong neighborhood, buddy. It's much easier to blame the meta than player skill, keeps the focus on "what we need to be better" rather than "how do we play better with our tools". Literally two pages of wish-listing after you posted this lol.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 08:04:32


Post by: Moriarty


Had some success with :
Freebooterz
2x Warboss
20x Flashgitz
2x Ammo runt
3x 10 Grotz
2x Trukk

Mobile fire base to concentrate firepower with boss for Ld + cc and runts to die if trukk goes, grotz to deny deep strikes/tank wounds.

Struggles vs Necrons, spanks DE flyer/raider list, cuts Custodes infantry/dread list down to their invulnerable hq.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 08:26:17


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 hollow one wrote:
juanonymous wrote:
Let’s not forget that, leading up to the LVO, orks were perhaps The biggest boogeyman for anyone looking to build a list themed against the meta. Saying orks are bid simply because of the LVO results is a bit too early of an assessment in my opinion. What’s more, isn’t assessing their place in the meta kind of irrelevant to a tactics thread (unless it’s another codex’s thread trying to convince that orks are no big deal), at least without offering solutions to what weaknesses are being cited? Unless the goal is to just shut down the thread?
Sorry, no intention to flame or point fingers at anybody, just an amateur player looking to keep the tactics conversation going
You're in the wrong neighborhood, buddy. It's much easier to blame the meta than player skill, keeps the focus on "what we need to be better" rather than "how do we play better with our tools". Literally two pages of wish-listing after you posted this lol.
I look forward to you both proving us wrong and winning your next few majors. If you think Orks are strong competitively in the current meta - take them and show us how its done.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 10:44:58


Post by: hollow one


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 hollow one wrote:
juanonymous wrote:
Let’s not forget that, leading up to the LVO, orks were perhaps The biggest boogeyman for anyone looking to build a list themed against the meta. Saying orks are bid simply because of the LVO results is a bit too early of an assessment in my opinion. What’s more, isn’t assessing their place in the meta kind of irrelevant to a tactics thread (unless it’s another codex’s thread trying to convince that orks are no big deal), at least without offering solutions to what weaknesses are being cited? Unless the goal is to just shut down the thread?
Sorry, no intention to flame or point fingers at anybody, just an amateur player looking to keep the tactics conversation going
You're in the wrong neighborhood, buddy. It's much easier to blame the meta than player skill, keeps the focus on "what we need to be better" rather than "how do we play better with our tools". Literally two pages of wish-listing after you posted this lol.
I look forward to you both proving us wrong and winning your next few majors. If you think Orks are strong competitively in the current meta - take them and show us how its done.
Bro I play a loota star, I lose with it a lot, but I am getting better. I just don't come here to learn how. And I certainly wouldn't share my success with an audience of nay-sayers.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 12:13:26


Post by: PiñaColada


I feel like we can reel back a bit on the animosity regarding the competitiveness of Orks. That'll become more apparent in a few months and is easier to revisit then, the pool of tournaments since post CA are still a bit too small IMO.

In an attempt to return to the tactics part of the thread I had a game yesterday and another one a few days before that. I still feel like a mechanised build won't work at the highest tier but they absolutely work at semi competitive tournaments IMO. You gotta keep trying to switch things out and see what works but the basic issue is that too many things lack either the punch or durability to truly work at high level games. But a couple of unis still do solid work basically everytime I bring them out..

I'm still awestruck at just how good the bonebreaka is at mulching a screening unit all by itself. It's a liability if you face IK or lists geared towards killing IK but I'm still having a hard time getting my mechanised lists work without them + the nob squad hiding inside it.

Also, with even more playtesting I can't see myself leaving the home without the Souped-up shokka big mek. He doesn't always get the job done but I don't think I've ever had a game where he didn't get his points back and the psychological terror he brings to anything that lacks an invul is just great.

The weirdboy is still doing great work, Fists of Gork is such an amazing power. It actually makes the Deffkilla scary in CC combined with Brutal but kunning (& maybe the supa cybork body). Without any of those things he's pretty tame. I mean, he still is compared to some of the index options.. But the Killa jet is actually ending up a lot more useful than I though it'd be. I mostly use the skorcha profile (why is it called burna?) to roast something on the way but those meltas have helped so many times to remove a damaged vehicle roadblock my opponent sets up.

I'm so close to loving the shokkjump dragsta, it's one of the most fun units to play and often manages to get me a few secure objective/equivalent points that I shouldn't have been able to get. But it's just sooo expensive for it's durability, especially because once the opponent actually fires at it it often only has 6 wounds left due to it hurting itself. And 24" guns leaves it too exposed.

Mechanised orks in general certainly need some help, everytime I play against a new opponent and get first turn they seems so disheartened when I kill like 33% of their army (mostly chaff and like one armoured target). Then when they get to shoot back they realise that everything folds like damp paper and the games end up close a lot of the time. If I don't go first (or face plasma spam) then you end up tabled T3 in a lot of cases. I have found that flyers help out quite a bit for me though, since you get such an insane threat in your opponents face T1 that target priority can sometimes become a bit wonky.

Even though it'd screw snakebites over I wonder if not every ork vehicle should get the ramshackle rule. It's a fun rule and it'd help a little bit at least.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 12:15:42


Post by: tneva82


 Emicrania wrote:

Mek gunz: they should have the clan abilities


So basically mek guns are death skull only.

Also funny you claim they need huge boost(reroll to hit, to wound and to damage) when they are already one of the best units in the codex.

Lootasbomb: too low armour


Again buff to one of the best units in the army?


Runtherd: like 300% overpriced


you claim they need be 8-9 pts? Sheesh.

Some realism would be nice to have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
even at that price im sketchy on it.
That 4th damage track just ruins it imo. It might as well not even have the last 10 or whatever the threshold was wounds.
Also it needs a freakin' invul. The only reason those super big things survive is they have invul saves, GargSquig is a prime example of this. It can die super fast if hit with multiple D6 damage attacks or gets into melee with something that it cant kill immediately/charged it and has a proper killy melee attack.

KFF is nice but it not only demands an 80-310pt tax (depending on choice of it) but it doesnt work in melee and theres a LOT of things you really, really dont want our stompa/gargsquig to face in melee.


It's about as tough as knight except for degration table. Tougher vs autocannons and the kind or vs h2h. Price is the killer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
If Stompa's were brought down to like 650 I think it'd be decent(ish).


having run the codex stompa several times. it loses to the castellan before ever reaching it and the castellan has better strategies. it loses to a pair of most types of knights which arte also less points. one of the biggest issues as mentioned byu others is a lack of invunerable save.

essentuall a castellan even with the 5++ has the equivilant of 1/3 more wounds due to ignoring high ap weapons. so that 28 wounds is the equivilant of 37 stompa wounds. with better guns... for 60% of the price.


Not good idea though to start comparing to one of the best things out there. If you are looking at castellans pretty much everything loses. Particulary in terms of super heavies. 2 shadowsword vs castellan? No biggie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 hollow one wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 hollow one wrote:
juanonymous wrote:
Let’s not forget that, leading up to the LVO, orks were perhaps The biggest boogeyman for anyone looking to build a list themed against the meta. Saying orks are bid simply because of the LVO results is a bit too early of an assessment in my opinion. What’s more, isn’t assessing their place in the meta kind of irrelevant to a tactics thread (unless it’s another codex’s thread trying to convince that orks are no big deal), at least without offering solutions to what weaknesses are being cited? Unless the goal is to just shut down the thread?
Sorry, no intention to flame or point fingers at anybody, just an amateur player looking to keep the tactics conversation going
You're in the wrong neighborhood, buddy. It's much easier to blame the meta than player skill, keeps the focus on "what we need to be better" rather than "how do we play better with our tools". Literally two pages of wish-listing after you posted this lol.
I look forward to you both proving us wrong and winning your next few majors. If you think Orks are strong competitively in the current meta - take them and show us how its done.
Bro I play a loota star, I lose with it a lot, but I am getting better. I just don't come here to learn how. And I certainly wouldn't share my success with an audience of nay-sayers.


Removed


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 13:24:00


Post by: Jidmah


PiñaColada wrote:
I feel like we can reel back a bit on the animosity regarding the competitiveness of Orks. That'll become more apparent in a few months and is easier to revisit then, the pool of tournaments since post CA are still a bit too small IMO.

In an attempt to return to the tactics part of the thread I had a game yesterday and another one a few days before that. I still feel like a mechanised build won't work at the highest tier but they absolutely work at semi competitive tournaments IMO. You gotta keep trying to switch things out and see what works but the basic issue is that too many things lack either the punch or durability to truly work at high level games. But a couple of unis still do solid work basically everytime I bring them out..

I'm still awestruck at just how good the bonebreaka is at mulching a screening unit all by itself. It's a liability if you face IK or lists geared towards killing IK but I'm still having a hard time getting my mechanised lists work without them + the nob squad hiding inside it.

Also, with even more playtesting I can't see myself leaving the home without the Souped-up shokka big mek. He doesn't always get the job done but I don't think I've ever had a game where he didn't get his points back and the psychological terror he brings to anything that lacks an invul is just great.

The weirdboy is still doing great work, Fists of Gork is such an amazing power. It actually makes the Deffkilla scary in CC combined with Brutal but kunning (& maybe the supa cybork body). Without any of those things he's pretty tame. I mean, he still is compared to some of the index options.. But the Killa jet is actually ending up a lot more useful than I though it'd be. I mostly use the skorcha profile (why is it called burna?) to roast something on the way but those meltas have helped so many times to remove a damaged vehicle roadblock my opponent sets up.

I'm so close to loving the shokkjump dragsta, it's one of the most fun units to play and often manages to get me a few secure objective/equivalent points that I shouldn't have been able to get. But it's just sooo expensive for it's durability, especially because once the opponent actually fires at it it often only has 6 wounds left due to it hurting itself. And 24" guns leaves it too exposed.

Mechanised orks in general certainly need some help, everytime I play against a new opponent and get first turn they seems so disheartened when I kill like 33% of their army (mostly chaff and like one armoured target). Then when they get to shoot back they realise that everything folds like damp paper and the games end up close a lot of the time. If I don't go first (or face plasma spam) then you end up tabled T3 in a lot of cases. I have found that flyers help out quite a bit for me though, since you get such an insane threat in your opponents face T1 that target priority can sometimes become a bit wonky.

Even though it'd screw snakebites over I wonder if not every ork vehicle should get the ramshackle rule. It's a fun rule and it'd help a little bit at least.


Can you provide some sample lists?

I'm still unsure what to get for my next purchase. Shokkjump seems a given, but I'm unsure whether I should get just the jumper or the whole speedfreeks box since the KBB and the warbikers aren't exactly stellar. While it's still a good deal for those bikes, I could have a scrapjet and a wartrike instead.
I have a boomdakka snazzwagon that I proxy as a KBB right now, so does running two KBB make sense?
Do you have a KFF in your lists, if so, which one?
What is your opinion on the snazztrike relic?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 13:51:49


Post by: G00fySmiley


tneva82 wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:

Mek gunz: they should have the clan abilities


So basically mek guns are death skull only.

Also funny you claim they need huge boost(reroll to hit, to wound and to damage) when they are already one of the best units in the codex.

Lootasbomb: too low armour


Again buff to one of the best units in the army?


Runtherd: like 300% overpriced


you claim they need be 8-9 pts? Sheesh.

Some realism would be nice to have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
even at that price im sketchy on it.
That 4th damage track just ruins it imo. It might as well not even have the last 10 or whatever the threshold was wounds.
Also it needs a freakin' invul. The only reason those super big things survive is they have invul saves, GargSquig is a prime example of this. It can die super fast if hit with multiple D6 damage attacks or gets into melee with something that it cant kill immediately/charged it and has a proper killy melee attack.

KFF is nice but it not only demands an 80-310pt tax (depending on choice of it) but it doesnt work in melee and theres a LOT of things you really, really dont want our stompa/gargsquig to face in melee.


It's about as tough as knight except for degration table. Tougher vs autocannons and the kind or vs h2h. Price is the killer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
If Stompa's were brought down to like 650 I think it'd be decent(ish).


having run the codex stompa several times. it loses to the castellan before ever reaching it and the castellan has better strategies. it loses to a pair of most types of knights which arte also less points. one of the biggest issues as mentioned byu others is a lack of invunerable save.

essentuall a castellan even with the 5++ has the equivilant of 1/3 more wounds due to ignoring high ap weapons. so that 28 wounds is the equivilant of 37 stompa wounds. with better guns... for 60% of the price.


Not good idea though to start comparing to one of the best things out there. If you are looking at castellans pretty much everything loses. Particulary in terms of super heavies. 2 shadowsword vs castellan? No biggie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 hollow one wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 hollow one wrote:
juanonymous wrote:
Let’s not forget that, leading up to the LVO, orks were perhaps The biggest boogeyman for anyone looking to build a list themed against the meta. Saying orks are bid simply because of the LVO results is a bit too early of an assessment in my opinion. What’s more, isn’t assessing their place in the meta kind of irrelevant to a tactics thread (unless it’s another codex’s thread trying to convince that orks are no big deal), at least without offering solutions to what weaknesses are being cited? Unless the goal is to just shut down the thread?
Sorry, no intention to flame or point fingers at anybody, just an amateur player looking to keep the tactics conversation going
You're in the wrong neighborhood, buddy. It's much easier to blame the meta than player skill, keeps the focus on "what we need to be better" rather than "how do we play better with our tools". Literally two pages of wish-listing after you posted this lol.
I look forward to you both proving us wrong and winning your next few majors. If you think Orks are strong competitively in the current meta - take them and show us how its done.
Bro I play a loota star, I lose with it a lot, but I am getting better. I just don't come here to learn how. And I certainly wouldn't share my success with an audience of nay-sayers.


Removed


on the response to stompa, notice i also compared it to 2 imperial knights which i have run against several times ~800 points of imperial knights (2 errent or an erant and a paladin) they keep range as the cripple the stompa which degrades so fast to slow movement it just never gets there into close combat and its shooting ijust rolling a bunch of dice and occationally getting lucky enough to hit. thanks to the knight's 5++ we hit them 1/3 shots which they in turn ignore 1/3 of or with CP ignore 1/2 of so you have to split your fire declaring on shooting so they get to pick the one to rotate shields for.

on the mek guns I do not think they need clan culture but they do need it to be worht the points, honestly i would rather see them just dropped a few points to make them competative but i won't hold my breath.

on lootas they are great when you pump them full of CP. its funny that most models GW tseems to have ignored how well they do with CP but then they factored it in on lootas (to be clear I don't want them to change, just for other things mostly in imperial soup and ynarri armies to get the same treatment)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 14:29:14


Post by: Vineheart01


The two imperial knight comparison is the best one to say the stompa is terrible.
Even just a Paladin is half the cost of a Stompa and will either beat said Stompa or at least leave it in some serious, serious hurt. Two paladins wouldnt even get phased by a stompa and are roughly the same price. And a Paladin isnt even a stronger version of the knights.
Stompa would mulch a paladin IF it got to melee without being in its 3rd or 4th degrading track, but thats not easy to do. GW seems to overvalue raw HP right now, which isnt high enough to rely on with how easy D6 damaging weapons are to get. I mean, why else would the Squigbuggy be the most expensive new ride? Most hp....

Admitedly i always forget knights dont get invuls in melee either, so maybe just giving the Stompa itself the KFF would be enough. I always found it odd that KFF isnt an option on just about all of our non-trukk or kan stuff, if its small enough for a Mek to lug around surely he'd get the idea of "If i'z stik dis to dis wagon i dun need ta carry it!"
Also find it odd that the variant on the Mork or the Wazbom isnt bigger since it has access to a better power source or is physically bigger, making it reach further.

And i cant believe i just noticed we dont have the 4++ KFF relic anymore. How the frick did i miss we didnt have that?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 14:36:22


Post by: G00fySmiley


 Vineheart01 wrote:
The two imperial knight comparison is the best one to say the stompa is terrible.
Even just a Paladin is half the cost of a Stompa and will either beat said Stompa or at least leave it in some serious, serious hurt. Two paladins wouldnt even get phased by a stompa and are roughly the same price. And a Paladin isnt even a stronger version of the knights.

Admitedly i always forget knights dont get invuls in melee either, so maybe just giving the Stompa itself the KFF would be enough. I always found it odd that KFF isnt an option on just about all of our non-trukk or kan stuff, if its small enough for a Mek to lug around surely he'd get the idea of "If i'z stik dis to dis wagon i dun need ta carry it!"
Also find it odd that the variant on the Mork or the Wazbom isnt bigger since it has access to a better power source or is physically bigger, making it reach further.

And i cant believe i just noticed we dont have the 4++ KFF relic anymore. How the frick did i miss we didnt have that?


yea, like the morkanaught the stompa should just have a kff, a kff inside does a lot to help it, but then you are sitting at an extra 100 points which compounds hte overpriced problem as now you have 100 points tied up inside a stompa that is basically useless and when it dies you have a weak unit in the middle of combat. a mega armored mek with kff also does help with that btu again... a lot of points you are hoping to never get out of the vehicle.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 14:39:32


Post by: Vineheart01


ive actually been using kff on bike for that reason.
It hides behind said big walker (or squiggoth in my case) so snipers cant see it and its bubble hits both the big bad thing and the nearby wagons/dreads/whatever i had near it.

Kff on bike is of course index only but i was already using footmek anyway. Since i have the proper friggen GW model for it im not going to shelve it permanently.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 16:31:15


Post by: PiñaColada


Alright, jeez calm down people. Let's try and be cordial.
 Jidmah wrote:

Can you provide some sample lists?

I'm still unsure what to get for my next purchase. Shokkjump seems a given, but I'm unsure whether I should get just the jumper or the whole speedfreeks box since the KBB and the warbikers aren't exactly stellar. While it's still a good deal for those bikes, I could have a scrapjet and a wartrike instead.
I have a boomdakka snazzwagon that I proxy as a KBB right now, so does running two KBB make sense?
Do you have a KFF in your lists, if so, which one?
What is your opinion on the snazztrike relic?

Well, I'm taking part of a slow grow tournament right now and I'm using that to try and switch up my list a bit. It's a good excuse to rewrite it from the ground up. Right now it's at the 1250 point level so it's rather limited in scope. At this point level I don't bring a KFF since I'm not sure it's worth it. As a general rule I don't play witgh index units so the only KFF I use is the Wazbom when I actually include one, it works pretty well since I play such a fast force.

Off the top of my head my 1250 list was this.
Spoiler:

Battalion
Deffkilla -Warlord- Brutal but Kunnin, Supa Cybork
Weirdboy - Warpath Fists of Gork + Warpath
2x10 grots
1x11 grots
10 nobz +1 runt - 5BC+C, 2PS+C, 3 double choppa
Bonebreaka + 3BS
Outrider
SAG big mek, Da souped up shokka
KBB
MTSJ
SJD
8x warbikes + nob with BC

You can have pretty decent success with a list like this but the lack of CPs and objective scoring units can be rough. Also if you don't get T1 those bikes are getting blasted. I haven't actually lost with this list but you have to get pretty tricky with movement for it to work. Also LoS blocking ground floor on buildings helps hiding the buggies pretty well since they're fairly low in profile. Using "driveby krumpin" on the SJD is pretty damn effective to get him out of there but again, CP starved. Always chuck "Loot it´" on the nobz if possible.

You can easily squash 30-40 guardsmen T1 and hopefully consolidate into their next lines. Probably won't be tanks or anything but at least you're forcing their hands regarding orders.

The best is easily the MTSJ IMO, it's varied in threats and has an extra wound. Decent against chaff, pretty good against vehicles and can help mop up in CC. Don't get me wrong, all buggies are 20 points too much (other than the squigbuggy which is more like 50 points overcosted). I've had good success with both the KBB and SJD as well, their potential is there but if people are geared up for killing IK then you at least need a KFF protecting them, thus brining up the price even higher. The good thing about the wazbom is that it's quick enough to keep up, but the area is too small. This can be somewhat negated if you veer off with the bikers and use "billowing smokeclouds" instead.

Regarding which buggies to get, I'd start with the MTSJ. After that both the deffkilla and SJD are fairly decent (and fun to play with). I only actually own one of each buggies so I don't know about the viability of doubling up on them yet, but I guess it's going to feel like a waste until they get point drops.

I've not used the snazztrike relic. I usually use the supa cybork body, which seems roughly as good and I don't need the specialist detachment for it. The 2d6" consolidation from that detachment enabled me to encircle a Castellan once and I bracketed him with the Deffkilla (and some shooting beforehand) so he couldn't kill enough bikes to get out. But that's a unicorn situation.

I'm not sure how I'll expand up my list through the higher point levels, I don't want to keep doing the same list. So I might swap the bikes for an airwing detachment at 1500. Will have to test that out.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 19:02:51


Post by: Emicrania


That looks like a fun and experimental list. Good job, Keep us posted !


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 20:44:28


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 Jidmah wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Spoiler:
I feel like we can reel back a bit on the animosity regarding the competitiveness of Orks. That'll become more apparent in a few months and is easier to revisit then, the pool of tournaments since post CA are still a bit too small IMO.

In an attempt to return to the tactics part of the thread I had a game yesterday and another one a few days before that. I still feel like a mechanised build won't work at the highest tier but they absolutely work at semi competitive tournaments IMO. You gotta keep trying to switch things out and see what works but the basic issue is that too many things lack either the punch or durability to truly work at high level games. But a couple of unis still do solid work basically everytime I bring them out..

I'm still awestruck at just how good the bonebreaka is at mulching a screening unit all by itself. It's a liability if you face IK or lists geared towards killing IK but I'm still having a hard time getting my mechanised lists work without them + the nob squad hiding inside it.

Also, with even more playtesting I can't see myself leaving the home without the Souped-up shokka big mek. He doesn't always get the job done but I don't think I've ever had a game where he didn't get his points back and the psychological terror he brings to anything that lacks an invul is just great.

The weirdboy is still doing great work, Fists of Gork is such an amazing power. It actually makes the Deffkilla scary in CC combined with Brutal but kunning (& maybe the supa cybork body). Without any of those things he's pretty tame. I mean, he still is compared to some of the index options.. But the Killa jet is actually ending up a lot more useful than I though it'd be. I mostly use the skorcha profile (why is it called burna?) to roast something on the way but those meltas have helped so many times to remove a damaged vehicle roadblock my opponent sets up.

I'm so close to loving the shokkjump dragsta, it's one of the most fun units to play and often manages to get me a few secure objective/equivalent points that I shouldn't have been able to get. But it's just sooo expensive for it's durability, especially because once the opponent actually fires at it it often only has 6 wounds left due to it hurting itself. And 24" guns leaves it too exposed.

Mechanised orks in general certainly need some help, everytime I play against a new opponent and get first turn they seems so disheartened when I kill like 33% of their army (mostly chaff and like one armoured target). Then when they get to shoot back they realise that everything folds like damp paper and the games end up close a lot of the time. If I don't go first (or face plasma spam) then you end up tabled T3 in a lot of cases. I have found that flyers help out quite a bit for me though, since you get such an insane threat in your opponents face T1 that target priority can sometimes become a bit wonky.

Even though it'd screw snakebites over I wonder if not every ork vehicle should get the ramshackle rule. It's a fun rule and it'd help a little bit at least.


Can you provide some sample lists?

I'm still unsure what to get for my next purchase. Shokkjump seems a given, but I'm unsure whether I should get just the jumper or the whole speedfreeks box since the KBB and the warbikers aren't exactly stellar. While it's still a good deal for those bikes, I could have a scrapjet and a wartrike instead.
I have a boomdakka snazzwagon that I proxy as a KBB right now, so does running two KBB make sense?
Do you have a KFF in your lists, if so, which one?
What is your opinion on the snazztrike relic?


Here's the competitive 2k list I currently workin towards (need those Wazzbom jets) that's Evil Sunz and actually has speed freek type units:

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [34 PL, 8CP, 651pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Warboss on Warbike (index) [5 PL, 99pts]: Attack Squig, Brutal but Kunnin, Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Shoota (Index), Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath, 3. Da Jump, Warphead (1 CP)

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]: 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]: 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [12 PL, 2CP, 229pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Detachment CP [5CP]

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, -1CP, 55pts]: Choppa, Dread Mek, Slugga, Stratagem: Field Commander

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Orks) [55 PL, 1CP, 1119pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Detachment CP [1CP]

+ HQ +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 4. Fists of Gork

+ Fast Attack +

Kustom Boosta Blastas [5 PL, 100pts]: Kustom Boosta Blastas

Megatrakk Scrapjet [5 PL, 110pts]
. Megatrakk Scrapjet: 2x Twin Big Shoota

Shokkjump Dragstas [6 PL, 120pts]
. Shokkjump Dragstas: Rokkit Launcha

Warbikers [14 PL, 289pts]
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 11x Warbiker: 11x Stikkbombs

+ Flyer +

Wazbom Blastajet [8 PL, 159pts]: 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons, Kustom Force Field, Smasha Gun

Wazbom Blastajet [8 PL, 159pts]: 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons, Kustom Force Field, Smasha Gun

++ Total: [101 PL, 11CP, 1999pts] ++


I've tried to organise it so the roles are quite obvious.

30+10 boyz mob up, get warpath on them and go in T1 (Da Jump) with the bikes and KBB who soften up targets in shooting also. That's the chaff clear (hopefully). The other weird boy saunters up and tries to get FoG off on the Trikeboss so he can soften up a mechanical target for the KillaKlaw boss to finish.

Grots and SAG Mek sit back and take objectives/blow gak up. Yes I'm aware the detachment is immediately better as Bad Moonz. No I'm not changing. The other Big Mek is a healbot for those flyers, buggies and boss (so needs to be ES). He runs up and tries to heal them.

The buggies are annoyances that I don't expect to last past turn 2, but they will engage first turn if they're alive.

The Wazzboms are key, they provide the first turn KFF if I go second and they are the primary anti armour. The flyer strat you suggested using is going to be winner vs Eldar and other flying vehicles that aren't actual flyers.

I think it'll play fun and fluffy while being able to hopefully throw the opponent off with target priority issues. It lacks staying power so healing with the Mek and using LOS blocking terrain will be key. It is FAST. Need to use the speed to your advantage.

E - format.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 20:52:10


Post by: BrookM


Hey folks, couple of posts got dinged here for their tone and presentation of replies, I would kindly like to remind all participants of this thread that Rule #1, to be polite, is not optional. Cheers!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 21:23:49


Post by: PiñaColada


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Spoiler:
Here's the competitive 2k list I currently workin towards (need those Wazzbom jets) that's Evil Sunz and actually has speed freek type units:

[spoiler]
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [34 PL, 8CP, 651pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Warboss on Warbike (index) [5 PL, 99pts]: Attack Squig, Brutal but Kunnin, Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Shoota (Index), Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath, 3. Da Jump, Warphead (1 CP)

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]: 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]: 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [12 PL, 2CP, 229pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Detachment CP [5CP]

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, -1CP, 55pts]: Choppa, Dread Mek, Slugga, Stratagem: Field Commander

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Orks) [55 PL, 1CP, 1119pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Detachment CP [1CP]

+ HQ +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 4. Fists of Gork

+ Fast Attack +

Kustom Boosta Blastas [5 PL, 100pts]: Kustom Boosta Blastas

Megatrakk Scrapjet [5 PL, 110pts]
. Megatrakk Scrapjet: 2x Twin Big Shoota

Shokkjump Dragstas [6 PL, 120pts]
. Shokkjump Dragstas: Rokkit Launcha

Warbikers [14 PL, 289pts]
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 11x Warbiker: 11x Stikkbombs

+ Flyer +

Wazbom Blastajet [8 PL, 159pts]: 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons, Kustom Force Field, Smasha Gun

Wazbom Blastajet [8 PL, 159pts]: 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons, Kustom Force Field, Smasha Gun

++ Total: [101 PL, 11CP, 1999pts] ++


I've tried to organise it so the roles are quite obvious.

30+10 boyz mob up, get warpath on them and go in T1 (Da Jump) with the bikes and KBB who soften up targets in shooting also. That's the chaff clear (hopefully). The other weird boy saunters up and tries to get FoG off on the Trikeboss so he can soften up a mechanical target for the KillaKlaw boss to finish.

Grots and SAG Mek sit back and take objectives/blow gak up. Yes I'm aware the detachment is immediately better as Bad Moonz. No I'm not changing. The other Big Mek is a healbot for those flyers, buggies and boss (so needs to be ES). He runs up and tries to heal them.

The buggies are annoyances that I don't expect to last past turn 2, but they will engage first turn if they're alive.

The Wazzboms are key, they provide the first turn KFF if I go second and they are the primary anti armour. The flyer strat you suggested using is going to be winner vs Eldar and other flying vehicles that aren't actual flyers.

I think it'll play fun and fluffy while being able to hopefully throw the opponent off with target priority issues. It lacks staying power so healing with the Mek and using LOS blocking terrain will be key. It is FAST. Need to use the speed to your advantage.[/spoiler]

E - format.

I really like your list but that's no real shocker. I feel more and more that the airwing detachment is the mechanised lists' friend. I actually like the burna-bommer as the third plane because it's 1, cheap and 2, blows up big. Just fly it all the way up T1, hopefully over a random chaff squad but mostly to be annoying and block them from moving out. They don't wanna shoot it down most likely since it blows up so big. I still haven't actually bought another plane to try out the dual wazbom strategy yet so keep us posted on how that works. Right now I mostly run 1 wazbom, 1 dakkajet and 1 burna-bommer. The DJ & BB are handy for movement blocking in general, something that's rarely the case with the wazboms since you need them for auras.

I never run quite as many boyz as you do, mostly because I don't really enjoy playing with that many models. I run one blob of 30 and another 10 man max but they do bring a lot of upside. That means more of a reliance on nobz, who usually do good work. I still haven't cracked quite fully how to make the most out of MANZ yet though. Against some lists they just get outmaneuvered and stuck in the middle of nowhere..


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 21:52:34


Post by: An Actual Englishman


PiñaColada wrote:

I really like your list but that's no real shocker. I feel more and more that the airwing detachment is the mechanised lists' friend. I actually like the burna-bommer as the third plane because it's 1, cheap and 2, blows up big. Just fly it all the way up T1, hopefully over a random chaff squad but mostly to be annoying and block them from moving out. They don't wanna shoot it down most likely since it blows up so big. I still haven't actually bought another plane to try out the dual wazbom strategy yet so keep us posted on how that works. Right now I mostly run 1 wazbom, 1 dakkajet and 1 burna-bommer. The DJ & BB are handy for movement blocking in general, something that's rarely the case with the wazboms since you need them for auras.

Ha I thought you might like the list! :-P I think you may be right with the airwing and BB, particularly for blocking shenanigans. I have a dakkajet and its never really performed brilliantly. Its decent for sniping characters but that's about it. Not much is scared of the supa shoota. I'll let you know how I get on with the wbbj once I've got them on the table.

I never run quite as many boyz as you do, mostly because I don't really enjoy playing with that many models. I run one blob of 30 and another 10 man max but they do bring a lot of upside. That means more of a reliance on nobz, who usually do good work. I still haven't cracked quite fully how to make the most out of MANZ yet though. Against some lists they just get outmaneuvered and stuck in the middle of nowhere..

I like to commit to as few things as possible and swamp with them. Nobs are not bad units but D2+ weapons make very short work of them and they are too fragile to load with expensive PKs or BCs IMO. Particularly PKs because they then hit on 4s. YMMV of course.

The 30 Boyz follow the first 40 to really hit home if needs or they grab/contest an objective depending on the state of play. They can also Green Tide if the opponent doesn't kill them all in a turn.

For me the problem with MANZ isn't their speed, its their output. They just feel weak as gak. PKs hitting on 4s? 3 attacks a pop? Be still my beating heart. Obviously tarpit screens love them and can catch them easily enough too because they are slow as hell as you've mentioned. I don't know, I see talk online about them getting taken in groups of 10 x 2 and mobbing up but without Waaaggghh! Banner support it feels like a bit of a damp squib to me.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 22:48:58


Post by: Vineheart01


that is something i always feel odd doing...
In past editions and even in the index i ran minimum 3x30 boyz and often went 4x30. In the new dex i almost never run more than 2x30, even in bigger games. I have a 4k list that still has only 60 boyz in it.
It feels really weird to do that but i feel horribly gimped if i run more than that unless i go full green tide. And green tide is boring so i wont do that. I guess because i tend to never get any mileage out of the toyz unless i just spam them. When i run walkers for example i run the whole shebang lol... 6 kanz 3 dreads and a mork.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/02/28 23:30:00


Post by: SemperMortis


My experience so far in this edition is that:

Grotz are useless except as CP batteries and shields for a Lootabomb, they die to fast, their morale is piss poor and they inflict ZERO damage against most targets (I don't need your anecdotal story about that one time a grot killed a terminator)

Lootas are terrible except in a lootabomba and require massive investments in both CP and grots to make sure it lasts more than 1 turn....and god help you against most competitive lists if you don't mulch their anti-infantry weapons by the end of your 1st turn or at most 2nd because your grots will be dead and your loota bomb after that.

Nothing in our FA slot is worth taking unless you are filling out minimums for a brigade. Stormboyz are just more expensive boyz.

Kanz are a liability due to slow movement, lack of ranged damage and firepower in general and the fact that if you ever get them into CC they kind of suck for their points....terminators are better in CC and are cheaper than kanz.

DeffDreadz same boat as the Kanz but can be funny to deepstrike and use a strat to have them bum rush something.

Boyz.....pathetically they are still probably the best unit in our codex which is sad because they didn't get any better from Index and I would argue they actually got worse even with the Klan buffs but not stratagems.. spending some CP to take a borderline dead mob and bring it back to full strength is just fun.

Burnas.....useless, literally useless, anything they do can be done better and cheaper by boyz and a number of other units.

Tankbustas....Okish, still require a trukk or wagon to be used and that makes them useless when it comes to strats...which sucks because doing a drive by with Tankbustas using the grenade strat would be fun, but as it currently stands its a suicide run because your boyz will die the next turn.

Meganobz....still too expensive and not enough dakka and not durable enough to justify their presence on the board.

Nobz of all flavor....too expensive, too flimsy and are can be replaced with more boyz.

Naughtz....Fun, but not really practical because they cost as much as a knight but don't pack as much of a ranged punch and don't come stock with a invuln unless you pay extra for it (morkanaut)

at the moment my current list is a loota bomb, lots of grots to be shields, a fethload of boyz, 60 of which i keep in reserve to deep strike and a couple of Bonecrusha's to deepstrike with my boyz for a super strong beta strike.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 00:09:01


Post by: flaming tadpole


It sucks ork flyers can't pivot twice. If they could my list would have just have like 9 of them zipping around like absolute mad lads.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 07:01:44


Post by: Booger ork


I had an idea for the bomma. Is it possible to deliberately move it less than 20". Although this would destroy it, the idea would be to move it into the centre of your opponents lines t1 and use a cp reroll on the explosion.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 07:57:44


Post by: Jidmah


Minimum movement means just that. You must move 20" if possible, and you are not allowed to move off the table deliberately.

So the only way to blow your burna yourself is to navigate it into a corner, so earliest turn 2. Note that when you cannot do the minimum move due to your opponent blocking off all possible places where you could move, the bommer explodes without moving first.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 08:15:13


Post by: PiñaColada


 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Ha I thought you might like the list! :-P I think you may be right with the airwing and BB, particularly for blocking shenanigans. I have a dakkajet and its never really performed brilliantly. Its decent for sniping characters but that's about it. Not much is scared of the supa shoota. I'll let you know how I get on with the wbbj once I've got them on the table.

I like to commit to as few things as possible and swamp with them. Nobs are not bad units but D2+ weapons make very short work of them and they are too fragile to load with expensive PKs or BCs IMO. Particularly PKs because they then hit on 4s. YMMV of course.

The 30 Boyz follow the first 40 to really hit home if needs or they grab/contest an objective depending on the state of play. They can also Green Tide if the opponent doesn't kill them all in a turn.

For me the problem with MANZ isn't their speed, its their output. They just feel weak as gak. PKs hitting on 4s? 3 attacks a pop? Be still my beating heart. Obviously tarpit screens love them and can catch them easily enough too because they are slow as hell as you've mentioned. I don't know, I see talk online about them getting taken in groups of 10 x 2 and mobbing up but without Waaaggghh! Banner support it feels like a bit of a damp squib to me.

I've had pretty decent success with the dakkajet, even though I run them suboptimally (as evil sunz) like you. With "long, uncontrolled bursts" I've wiped squads of inceptors several times as they're fly but not hard to hit. Those guys are also a terror for normal boyz so having a platform that wipes them quick is nice, although obviously there are plenty of other options in the codex to do that. Usually I just use the DJ to wipe my opponents second line of chaff though, since the first is going to get chomped in CC (Gork willing).

My nobz generally die quick when they are out of their transport but if my opponent blows it up then at least they have a 3+ save (with loot it) so they're somewhat surviveable. But usually I run them into a bunch of things and swamp my opponent with attacks, my loadout (5BC+C, 2PS+C &3C+C) is pretty cheap and if they're warpathed I've found them effective against anything that isn't T8. That T8 is the issue though, that's why I want to make MANZ work. I think they're too expensive, but that's mostly due to the weapons not so much the base cost of the model. I think it's a real shame they can't take an ammo runt per 3 MANZ so you can put them in transports without worrying as much. I run mine as dual killsaws which makes them pretty killy in CC but for 43 frickin' points each they are too easy to kill or ignore. T8 in general is just tough to deal with as Orks, sure we can throw in an HQ to deal with it but usually that's a suicide mission. There aren't too many other CC options and basically no shooting will hurt it on 3+. The bonebreaka is good, as long as we're not talking about IK (meaning they can hit back) since they hit oh-so-hard when undegraded. But boy do they degrade, and die easily!

I dunno, the experimentation continues but I'd sure like it if they updated the point costs of the worst offenders in the spring FAQ


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:
Minimum movement means just that. You must move 20" if possible, and you are not allowed to move off the table deliberately.

So the only way to blow your burna yourself is to navigate it into a corner, so earliest turn 2. Note that when you cannot do the minimum move due to your opponent blocking off all possible places where you could move, the bommer explodes without moving first.

Totally trust you but I've had this come up during a game, do you know where that is stated by any chance?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 08:27:38


Post by: Jidmah


 An Actual Englishman wrote:

I've tried to organise it so the roles are quite obvious.

30+10 boyz mob up, get warpath on them and go in T1 (Da Jump) with the bikes and KBB who soften up targets in shooting also. That's the chaff clear (hopefully). The other weird boy saunters up and tries to get FoG off on the Trikeboss so he can soften up a mechanical target for the KillaKlaw boss to finish.

So what's your thoughts on bringing two KBB?

Grots and SAG Mek sit back and take objectives/blow gak up. Yes I'm aware the detachment is immediately better as Bad Moonz. No I'm not changing. The other Big Mek is a healbot for those flyers, buggies and boss (so needs to be ES). He runs up and tries to heal them.

Eh, my army is Blood Axes which basically translates to "Sorry, you have no kulture. Wanna trade a relic for a warlord trait?". Picking best kultures for detachments is the least of my worries
If anything, I'll start to paint all my new models blue and switch to deff skulls, just so I have a reason to run my trukkboyz again.

I think it'll play fun and fluffy while being able to hopefully throw the opponent off with target priority issues. It lacks staying power so healing with the Mek and using LOS blocking terrain will be key. It is FAST. Need to use the speed to your advantage.

One of the main reasons I want to invest into some speedy stuff is to get rid of as many boyz from my list as possible. I really hate moving those droves of models since the placement for every single one matters when you reach combat, it just makes my games much less enjoyable. For competitive games I'm running Death Guard anyways, so fun and fluffy is exactly what I'm looking for - I'll be facing wraith armies, imperial fists or tzeench daemons with them, not Castellans or Eldar soup.

PiñaColada wrote:
II never run quite as many boyz as you do, mostly because I don't really enjoy playing with that many models. I run one blob of 30 and another 10 man max but they do bring a lot of upside. That means more of a reliance on nobz, who usually do good work. I still haven't cracked quite fully how to make the most out of MANZ yet though. Against some lists they just get outmaneuvered and stuck in the middle of nowhere..

How many nobz do your run, and how are they equipped? I have had good runs with 3 PK/7 dual choppas and 5 BC/5 dual choppas, though the first one mostly stemms from what models I have available. They do ok-ish though.

Thanks you both for your feedback. One last question: How do you feel about adding a Morkanaut to the list? You both seem to be running the dread detachment for the super-SAG anyways so it would have access to shoot twice stratagem without extra cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PiñaColada wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Minimum movement means just that. You must move 20" if possible, and you are not allowed to move off the table deliberately.

So the only way to blow your burna yourself is to navigate it into a corner, so earliest turn 2. Note that when you cannot do the minimum move due to your opponent blocking off all possible places where you could move, the bommer explodes without moving first.

Totally trust you but I've had this come up during a game, do you know where that is stated by any chance?


Basically in the rule itself. You have no permission whatsoever to move models off the table outside of certain missions, a flier is no different to an ork boyz in that regard. If you can make a legal move, your are not forced to move off the table.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 09:12:42


Post by: cody.d.


Just had a rather awesome game. Using the Chapter approved mission with the single objective that turns off invuls around it and gradually shrinks in the capture range.

I used 3 units of meganobs in bonebreakas.
Ran a megamek with KFF
a KFF biker Mek
a deffkilla wartrike
and a waaghbanner on the side.
Oh and 30 grots. But honestly who gives a damn about them.

The opponent had was running Blood Angels

Smash captain
Libby dread
Chaplain and Sang Priest
some scouts and intercessors
5 shield termies
death comp dread
a unit of death company
and finally a stormraven

All in all the MANZ held their own, murdering anything they touched and soaking up a tonne of firepower. Though good help you if you have the new 5' tall buildings.
Having a trio of Bonebreakers is fairly brutal, running over the dreads, characters and death company all up. Not a competitive game by any means but goddamn was it a close and fun game.

The only struggle was dealing with the flyer as I had almost no shooting.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 09:17:20


Post by: PiñaColada


 Jidmah wrote:


PiñaColada wrote:
II never run quite as many boyz as you do, mostly because I don't really enjoy playing with that many models. I run one blob of 30 and another 10 man max but they do bring a lot of upside. That means more of a reliance on nobz, who usually do good work. I still haven't cracked quite fully how to make the most out of MANZ yet though. Against some lists they just get outmaneuvered and stuck in the middle of nowhere..

How many nobz do your run, and how are they equipped? I have had good runs with 3 PK/7 dual choppas and 5 BC/5 dual choppas, though the first one mostly stemms from what models I have available. They do ok-ish though.

Thanks you both for your feedback. One last question: How do you feel about adding a Morkanaut to the list? You both seem to be running the dread detachment for the super-SAG anyways so it would have access to shoot twice stratagem without extra cost.


I run my main Nobsquad with 5 Big Choppas + choppas, 2 with power stabbas + choppas and 3 with dual choppas (and 2 runts), those guys are brought in almost all my games. Usually I have another 5-10 nobz in my list and sometimes up to 5 MANZ. MANZ i always run with dual killsaws but as I mentioned previously they rarely do what I want them to, some games they are amazing but usually they don't do nearly enough. The other nobz I bring are kitted out similarly to the first squad but I often just run the PS & DC nobz from that squad. Then they're cheap at least. I personally don't like the PK since it's so expensive (basically costs the same as another nob) and the damage output is hardly consistent. But that main nobsquad usually does good work, I use warpath on them and charge plenty of soft targets that won't really hurt them in CC (like multiple units of chaff or stuff like tanks if I get that opportunity obviously) and if they don't get the work done you can just fight with them again. Almost anything that isn't T8 will crumble under their weight of attacks but since you have a squad kitted out roughly the same I'm sure you've already noticed that.

Regarding the Morkanaut I don't own one but that's mostly due to the fact that I also have IK and therefore I feel set on big walker models. It does seem like a decent target for "Kustom Ammo" and getting a KFF with a big base on the board. I dislike the fact that the KFF strat (though overcosted) only works with big meks however. Had it been any model with a KFF for 2CP then I could really see myself using it quite a bit. I personally feel like the super SAG is a good use of Kustom Ammo anyways but I'm also okay with it being a complete waste as an outcome half the times when the other half are mind-bogglingly good. That only works if you have some redundancy in damage output coming from somewhere else.
 Jidmah wrote:

Basically in the rule itself. You have no permission whatsoever to move models off the table outside of certain missions, a flier is no different to an ork boyz in that regard. If you can make a legal move, your are not forced to move off the table.

No, I meant does it state anywhere that if it cannot move, it blows up on the spot? That's how I played it (the one time it came up) but my opponent argued that it's no longer on the field and shouldn't even blow up, just disappear and I couldn't find the rule so we just rolled off.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 10:12:21


Post by: koooaei


What do you need to take a relic sag?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 11:33:27


Post by: Nym


I just finished 2nd (1pt from the winner) at a local 1750pts tournament with Deathskulls and wanted to share this experience with you guys. You'll find my list in SPOILER at the end, with comments.

The MA Warboss and the 10 boyz unit went into the Bonebreaka every game and I spent 2CP for Tellyporta.
The Defkilla and Nobz were used as guided missiles and screen clearing
The SAG and Lootas usually castled up with Grots around them

First game : Raven Guard with only bikers, venerable dreadnoughts and infantry. Most of the game was spent trying to hit them on 6's, needless to say that it was really frustrating. My SAG paid for himself twice but I had to spend 4CP on him on first turn and 3CP to bring the 30 Boyz back after a devastating 1st turn. I was already out of CP by turn 2. The game ended on turn 3 or 4 by me making a big mistake : my opponent advanced his bikes 20" to contest an objective and shot with his Rapid Fire weapons, which was illegal. I didn't catch that until later... Too bad, it cost me the game. My MA Warboss died against his Biker Chapter master, scoring 1 wound and getting almost auto-killed by Thunder hammer. End result : 9-11

Second game : Alaitoc painted as Iyanden. Yeah... Another -1 to hit. He had 2x3 Warwalkers, a Hemlock, Dark Reapers, Fire dragons, several psykers and at least 2 Serpents. This time it went better as I managed to blow up 3 Warwalkers on first turn with my Lootas (Moar dakka) and a Waveserpent with my Deffkilla (2 melta shots = 3 hits, 10 damage...). Charged the Firedragons that disembarked, killed them, pilled into the Dark Reapers. The game was pretty much over. Still, he managed to snipe my SAG with his Hemlock with silly Eldar shenanigans. The game ended with him being tabled and my Grots catching the Relic. End resultt : 20-0

Third game : Alpha legion painted as Black legion. Yeah... ANOTHER -1 to hit. This is getting silly. His list was mass cultists with Abaddon, 2x3 Obliterators, a few havocs with LC and plenty of buffing characters (Dark Apostle, Exalted Champ and 2 Sorcerers). He got first turn and proceeded to charge half my army with close combat cultists. I lost 30 Grots and 10 Boyz before I could even strike. I retaliated by wiping at least 40 cultists. Second turn Abaddon joined the fray, failled his charge, and he tried to use Warptime on a unit of cultists that just had been brought back with Tide of traitors, but I was unsure if it was allowed so called-up a referee that ruled he couldn't. The following turn was crucial as I had to kill Abaddon with my SAG. I got 2 wounds... Which he saved. I was pretty frustrated but remembered Kustom Ammo ! I shot again, got 2 wounds in, but Abaddon halves damage. I rolled, got a 2. Re-rolled as I was a Deathskull, got a 6 ! Second roll was a natural 6... Abaddon died, humiliated (he had lost a wound earlier). My Bonebreaka lost 12 wounds in CC against his Dark Apostle and Exalted Champion... Crazy rolling on his part. I forgot to deal the Mortal wounds with our 3d6 charge strat, which saved his ass. Fortunately, my Nobz and Deffkilla managed to kill the Havocs and Obliterators. Tabled again. End result : 20-0.

Overall, I was pretty satisfied of how it turned out. Had I not made a mistake at the end of the first game, I might have won... Or not, as I would have had different opponents. Anyway, the permanent -1 to hit was a REAL pain and frankly, I hope it goes away eventually as it's really ruining balanced. I let you know what I thought of each unit below.

Army list + comments :
Spoiler:
Batallion detachment : DEATHSKULLS Dread Waaagh!

Big Mek with SAG (relic) : crazy. Auto-take in any Deathskull list. The relic might be OP honestly.
Weirdboy : auto-take for Da Jump. The MW are also very welcome in this list.

3x 10 Gretchins : did the job, but their Ld is really crap and they're way overpriced. Brimstones are Ld7 with a 6++ and T3. Go figure...

12x Lootas : okayish. They did nothing during game 1, were superstars during game 2 and died in CC during game 3. I think they're way overpriced too.

Batallion detachment : DEATHSKULLS

MA Warboss : crap. No invulnerable save, not enough attacks. You need the Killa klaw and a Weirdboy nearby to make him worth it.
Deffkilla Wartrike : awesome. It's really cheap for a highly mobile character with decent firepower and close combat presence.

30 Shoota Boyz, 3 Rokkits, Nob w/ Power klaw : mandatory, despite being too expensive. Still, they clear screens quite well.
20 Shoota Boyz, 2 Rokkits, Nob w/ Big choppa : didn't do much, aside from catching bullets and knives.
10 Shoota Boyz, 1 Rokkit, Nob w/ Power klaw : didn't do much either, as by turn 3 games were already decided.

3x Nob bikerz, 1 Power klaw : regular bikers would have been a lot better. That 3rd wound was useless 90% of the time and bikers still have a Nob for free. Still, their firepower is really nice against low save units.
3x Nob bikerz, 1 Power klaw : see above

Megatrakk Scrapjet : awesome. It died too fast game 1 but did great in the other 2. That 9th wound is invaluable, and its firepower / cc is crazy for such a cheap unit.

Bonebreaka w/ Grot riggers and Killkannon : it crushed anything it touches, but is surprisingly fragile. The Riggers and Killkannon were useless, but I had points left...



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 11:41:14


Post by: Jidmah


 koooaei wrote:
What do you need to take a relic sag?


Short answer: 1 CP
Long answer: Use the stratagem for the vigilus dread mob special detachment. A big mek in that detachment can replace his SAG with the relic SAG.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 12:23:14


Post by: koooaei


Do you need to pay 1 extra cp for the second relic?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 12:34:49


Post by: Jidmah


You pay 1 CP for the specialist detachment. The relic SAG is taken like any other relic, so free if it's your first or 1/3 CP if you take it via stratagem.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 13:25:10


Post by: koooaei


Still might be worth it in ork gunline lists i guess. Double-shooting sag would be hilarious vs something without high invils and average toughness...like...nothing really. Still worth trying.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 17:30:03


Post by: G00fySmiley


SO i was having a debate on which army can do the best mechanized list (80% points must be vehicles). in making them I was surprised how well I think the orks could do

I am not sure most lists out there could deal with it... thoghts on mec orks of how to better do a mostly mechanized list

ended up being 3 outrider detachments, all deathskulls

war trike x2 warboss on bike with da killa claw

10x gretchin x3

kustom boosta wagon x3
scrapjet x3
shokjump dragster x3

traktor cannon x3

waazboom blasta jet
dakka jet x2


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 18:20:55


Post by: Coh Magnussen


With 3 gretchin units, why go with 3 outriders instead of a batallion and an outrider?

I'm also interested in a mechanized list, mostly because I don't want to shuffle around (or convert/paint) hundreds of infantry models. Very interested in how this plays, and whether it's better to bring all buggies or mix in some walkers.

Also, why traktor cannons over smasha guns? I like it because I'd rather build traktor cannons than smasha guns, but am wondering what drove that choice.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 18:36:49


Post by: PiñaColada


Mechanised lists are great fun to play and build, especially for orks IMO. The above list should indeed make two of the outriders into a battalion & the planes into an airwing barring any type of restrictions in that specific scenario. And yes, maybe Orks hold up fairly well if you have an arbitrary 80% mechanised limit but that's against other mech lists. As me and An Actual Englishman have discussed you do run into some real issues against tough competition though.

The traktor kannons are often not as good value as the smashas (but those are insane value) however you can hide them behind terrain just barely T1 so if you don't get to go first the opponent can't draw LoS and when it's your turn to shoot you simply move them 3" and fire because you auto-hit anyways.

As a general tip I have a hard time seeing mass buggies working before they get their prices slashed, I usually bring 4 and that's still a pretty big investment. You need planes to make mechanised lists work IMO and there's an argument for all of them except the blitz-bomma I think.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 18:57:13


Post by: Vineheart01


CP difference is the big one to me.
Two battalions gives more than enough slots for a mechanized list and for the overall cost of 1.5 buggies worth of more HQs and grot requirements you get a gakton more CP.
Vehicles arent as CP hungry as foot orks but you still want to use a lot of stratagems, particularly tellyporta and ramming speed.

3 outrider detachments is just 6cp. Thats nothing. Even just bumping one to a battalion for ~160pts more in HQ + Grots makes it 10CP, which is enough to actually do something.
I really wish they'd up the CP gain from those side detachments. Theyre supposed to let you bring an army in a lot of themes and builds but the CP starvation kinda kills any attempt at that.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 20:00:09


Post by: Grimskul


 Vineheart01 wrote:
CP difference is the big one to me.
Two battalions gives more than enough slots for a mechanized list and for the overall cost of 1.5 buggies worth of more HQs and grot requirements you get a gakton more CP.
Vehicles arent as CP hungry as foot orks but you still want to use a lot of stratagems, particularly tellyporta and ramming speed.

3 outrider detachments is just 6cp. Thats nothing. Even just bumping one to a battalion for ~160pts more in HQ + Grots makes it 10CP, which is enough to actually do something.
I really wish they'd up the CP gain from those side detachments. Theyre supposed to let you bring an army in a lot of themes and builds but the CP starvation kinda kills any attempt at that.


Yeah, its practically mandatory for you to take at least one battalion alongside any of the other more specialized detachments, especially if you're taking the Vigilus ones, which sets you back even further for CP.

What do you think the right CP bonus for the non-brigade/battalion/patrol detachments should be? I feel like 2-3 CP would be right around the money. Enough CP's to warrant taking one as an add-on or standalone, not enough to warrant spamming over brigades and double battalions.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/01 20:45:46


Post by: Vineheart01


i think 2 is enough. There needs to be somewhat of a reward for filling out a "proper" force but at the same token completely starving the more specialized ones is unfair.
I dont think some of them should be worth more than others since thats codex dependent if its a more expensive requirement or not. Heavy is usually expensive models but uh....orks can field super duper cheap heavy slots lol...

All the codexes i am aware of the vast bulk of their stratagems revolve around troops so a mechanized list doesnt NEED as much CP but still does need it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/02 08:08:40


Post by: An Actual Englishman


SemperMortis wrote:
My experience so far in this edition is that:

Spoiler:
Grotz are useless except as CP batteries and shields for a Lootabomb, they die to fast, their morale is piss poor and they inflict ZERO damage against most targets (I don't need your anecdotal story about that one time a grot killed a terminator)

Lootas are terrible except in a lootabomba and require massive investments in both CP and grots to make sure it lasts more than 1 turn....and god help you against most competitive lists if you don't mulch their anti-infantry weapons by the end of your 1st turn or at most 2nd because your grots will be dead and your loota bomb after that.

Nothing in our FA slot is worth taking unless you are filling out minimums for a brigade. Stormboyz are just more expensive boyz.

Kanz are a liability due to slow movement, lack of ranged damage and firepower in general and the fact that if you ever get them into CC they kind of suck for their points....terminators are better in CC and are cheaper than kanz.

DeffDreadz same boat as the Kanz but can be funny to deepstrike and use a strat to have them bum rush something.

Boyz.....pathetically they are still probably the best unit in our codex which is sad because they didn't get any better from Index and I would argue they actually got worse even with the Klan buffs but not stratagems.. spending some CP to take a borderline dead mob and bring it back to full strength is just fun.

Burnas.....useless, literally useless, anything they do can be done better and cheaper by boyz and a number of other units.

Tankbustas....Okish, still require a trukk or wagon to be used and that makes them useless when it comes to strats...which sucks because doing a drive by with Tankbustas using the grenade strat would be fun, but as it currently stands its a suicide run because your boyz will die the next turn.

Meganobz....still too expensive and not enough dakka and not durable enough to justify their presence on the board.

Nobz of all flavor....too expensive, too flimsy and are can be replaced with more boyz.

Naughtz....Fun, but not really practical because they cost as much as a knight but don't pack as much of a ranged punch and don't come stock with a invuln unless you pay extra for it (morkanaut)

at the moment my current list is a loota bomb, lots of grots to be shields, a fethload of boyz, 60 of which i keep in reserve to deep strike and a couple of Bonecrusha's to deepstrike with my boyz for a super strong beta strike.

I agreee with all of this. Really disappointed your ‘how to fix Orks?’ thread never went anywhere. I guess we are a secondary or tertiary faction for many.

PiñaColada wrote:

I've had pretty decent success with the dakkajet, even though I run them suboptimally (as evil sunz) like you. With "long, uncontrolled bursts" I've wiped squads of inceptors several times as they're fly but not hard to hit. Those guys are also a terror for normal boyz so having a platform that wipes them quick is nice, although obviously there are plenty of other options in the codex to do that. Usually I just use the DJ to wipe my opponents second line of chaff though, since the first is going to get chomped in CC (Gork willing).

My nobz generally die quick when they are out of their transport but if my opponent blows it up then at least they have a 3+ save (with loot it) so they're somewhat surviveable. But usually I run them into a bunch of things and swamp my opponent with attacks, my loadout (5BC+C, 2PS+C &3C+C) is pretty cheap and if they're warpathed I've found them effective against anything that isn't T8. That T8 is the issue though, that's why I want to make MANZ work. I think they're too expensive, but that's mostly due to the weapons not so much the base cost of the model. I think it's a real shame they can't take an ammo runt per 3 MANZ so you can put them in transports without worrying as much. I run mine as dual killsaws which makes them pretty killy in CC but for 43 frickin' points each they are too easy to kill or ignore. T8 in general is just tough to deal with as Orks, sure we can throw in an HQ to deal with it but usually that's a suicide mission. There aren't too many other CC options and basically no shooting will hurt it on 3+. The bonebreaka is good, as long as we're not talking about IK (meaning they can hit back) since they hit oh-so-hard when undegraded. But boy do they degrade, and die
Yea no doubt the DJ has its place depending on your meta. For me though I have enough other units in my list that can do it’s iob well enough, with the bikes and buggies that usually focus on the second layer of screen in their shooting phase.
I wonder if Bonebreakers might be our most viable T8 killing unit. Particularly in a mech/biker list. They are only slightly over costed and relatively tough if covered by a KFF plus they can be filled with Boyz to give them protection. I don’t have my codex with me right now so can someone let me know the answer to this because I just had a weird thought - if I embark a KFF Mek into a vehicle does it get the 5++ in melee too? Not sure if the rules are written a little vague there. Very expensive but might be an interesting tactic to give us some durability in combat. And the heals too, hmmm.

 Jidmah wrote:

So what's your thoughts on bringing two KBB?

Eh, my army is Blood Axes which basically translates to "Sorry, you have no kulture. Wanna trade a relic for a warlord trait?". Picking best kultures for detachments is the least of my worries
If anything, I'll start to paint all my new models blue and switch to deff skulls, just so I have a reason to run my trukkboyz again.
2 KBBs are OK but it depends on the make up of the rest of your list really. Do you need the chaff clear? Their MWs on charges can be clutch but often isn’t really much to get excited about. Lol the clan comment wasn’t at you specifically Jid, just a general statement really. Give your boys whatever kultur you like man. Though the relic is one of the best.


One of the main reasons I want to invest into some speedy stuff is to get rid of as many boyz from my list as possible. I really hate moving those droves of models since the placement for every single one matters when you reach combat, it just makes my games much less enjoyable. For competitive games I'm running Death Guard anyways, so fun and fluffy is exactly what I'm looking for - I'll be facing wraith armies, imperial fists or tzeench daemons with them, not Castellans or Eldar soup.
Yea I totally get that. I can’t stand the green tide play style. It also feels more like I’m in control of a game when 60% of my units are on the enemy turn 1, even though that probably isn’t true. I’ve had opponents concede way too early because the early game felt too brutal for them but if they had hit back they’d have probably seen my army fold and won.


Thanks you both for your feedback. One last question: How do you feel about adding a Morkanaut to the list? You both seem to be running the dread detachment for the super-SAG anyways so it would have access to shoot twice stratagem without extra cost.
No worries. Originally I planned to have a Mork in there to double shoot but the output compared to 2 Wazboms is not much higher at all, its one less KFF in the list, it has way worse mobility to shoot those high value targets and it relies on a stratagem for decent damage output which I didn’t like.

I feel we need to move away from our reliance on stratagems that can be countered in our list building now. For me I’m going to try to lean on them as little as possible or, at least, to try and use the less expensive ones so players are gutted ‘wasting’ a Vect/A Plan on them. A plan really worries me, 3CP is super cheap and often it only needs to be used once per game to completely cripple our army.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/02 11:06:28


Post by: PiñaColada


 An Actual Englishman wrote:

I agreee with all of this. Really disappointed your ‘how to fix Orks?’ thread never went anywhere. I guess we are a secondary or tertiary faction for many.

It's a shame more people didn't really chime in but I still implore people to actually write to GW. Voice your concerns and ideas, especially now when we're like a month away from the FAQ. This is the last chance for a while, so shoot an email and give some insight (politely). Some people argue it'll do nothing and that might be true (although I doubt it) but what's the risk?

PiñaColada wrote:

Spoiler:
I've had pretty decent success with the dakkajet, even though I run them suboptimally (as evil sunz) like you. With "long, uncontrolled bursts" I've wiped squads of inceptors several times as they're fly but not hard to hit. Those guys are also a terror for normal boyz so having a platform that wipes them quick is nice, although obviously there are plenty of other options in the codex to do that. Usually I just use the DJ to wipe my opponents second line of chaff though, since the first is going to get chomped in CC (Gork willing).

My nobz generally die quick when they are out of their transport but if my opponent blows it up then at least they have a 3+ save (with loot it) so they're somewhat surviveable. But usually I run them into a bunch of things and swamp my opponent with attacks, my loadout (5BC+C, 2PS+C &3C+C) is pretty cheap and if they're warpathed I've found them effective against anything that isn't T8. That T8 is the issue though, that's why I want to make MANZ work. I think they're too expensive, but that's mostly due to the weapons not so much the base cost of the model. I think it's a real shame they can't take an ammo runt per 3 MANZ so you can put them in transports without worrying as much. I run mine as dual killsaws which makes them pretty killy in CC but for 43 frickin' points each they are too easy to kill or ignore. T8 in general is just tough to deal with as Orks, sure we can throw in an HQ to deal with it but usually that's a suicide mission. There aren't too many other CC options and basically no shooting will hurt it on 3+. The bonebreaka is good, as long as we're not talking about IK (meaning they can hit back) since they hit oh-so-hard when undegraded. But boy do they degrade, and die

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Yea no doubt the DJ has its place depending on your meta. For me though I have enough other units in my list that can do it’s iob well enough, with the bikes and buggies that usually focus on the second layer of screen in their shooting phase.
I wonder if Bonebreakers might be our most viable T8 killing unit. Particularly in a mech/biker list. They are only slightly over costed and relatively tough if covered by a KFF plus they can be filled with Boyz to give them protection. I don’t have my codex with me right now so can someone let me know the answer to this because I just had a weird thought - if I embark a KFF Mek into a vehicle does it get the 5++ in melee too? Not sure if the rules are written a little vague there. Very expensive but might be an interesting tactic to give us some durability in combat. And the heals too, hmmm.

Unfortunately they don't gain a 5++ in CC, it's still just versus ranged weapons. But yeah, the bonebreakas are great against anything that can't hit back hard in CC. The problem is that they're so easy to avoid by jumping up in ruins or hiding behind something that's tough to get around.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

I feel we need to move away from our reliance on stratagems that can be countered in our list building now. For me I’m going to try to lean on them as little as possible or, at least, to try and use the less expensive ones so players are gutted ‘wasting’ a Vect/A Plan on them. A plan really worries me, 3CP is super cheap and often it only needs to be used once per game to completely cripple our army.

I thought "A plan generations in the making" is once per game? Someone told me that, I haven't looked it up though..
Edit: It is once per game per the FAQ. That's still often enough to cripple an army by removing a vital trick so I still agree that relying on stratagems too much probably isn't the way forward but at least tyranid soup can't keep "vecting" you all day long


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/02 18:56:16


Post by: koooaei


Tried loota bomb and a relik sag mek in a 2250 game vs necrons with 4 doomsday arks, immortals, some wraiths and destroyers

Loota bomb was quite good. Wrecked an ark and a bunch of wraiths first turn. Second turn was a bit less impressive cause enemy saves were super hot but 3d turn they wrecked 2 more arks. Basically, made the game.

Relik sag mek didn't feel to be worth it vs crons. Was not worth using vs arks, wraiths had 3++ and all he did in the first 2 turns was kill a couple immortals. Even used vigilus 2cp shoot again strat and killed...1 extra immortal for 2 cp. 3d turn he killed 2 destroyers though. Anywayz, i'm not sure he's worth the hassle. 2 cp to simply get this sag...and than random str. Ap5 is nice but no invul on something worth shooting is sooooo rare. What is he supposed to shoot down? Leman russes? Yeah, now let's roll high enough str and bnumber of shots to get those wounds in. I'd rather spend this oh so needed cp elsewhere.

Also finally tried 3 deepstriking deffdreads. Was also a bit underwhelmed. It's so hard to find a plsce to deepstrike them. Also, mellee vehicles with bases don't really work all that amazing with terrain features. No shooting at all. 3 chances to charge with 1 deepatrike though. All in all, 10 meganobz tend to work better for me. They also have 40 shots which is nice.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/02 19:06:17


Post by: Grimskul


 koooaei wrote:
Tried loota bomb and a relik sag mek in a 2250 game vs necrons with 4 doomsday arks, immortals, some wraiths and destroyers

Loota bomb was quite good. Wrecked an ark and a bunch of wraiths first turn. Second turn was a bit less impressive cause enemy saves were super hot but 3d turn they wrecked 2 more arks. Basically, made the game.

Relik sag mek didn't feel to be worth it vs crons. Was not worth using vs arks, wraiths had 3++ and all he did in the first 2 turns was kill a couple immortals. Even used vigilus 2cp shoot again strat and killed...1 extra immortal for 2 cp. 3d turn he killed 2 destroyers though. Anywayz, i'm not sure he's worth the hassle. 2 cp to simply get this sag...and than random str. Ap5 is nice but no invul on something worth shooting is sooooo rare. What is he supposed to shoot down? Leman russes? Yeah, now let's roll high enough str and bnumber of shots to get those wounds in. I'd rather spend this oh so needed cp elsewhere.

Also finally tried 3 deepstriking deffdreads. Was also a bit underwhelmed. It's so hard to find a plsce to deepstrike them. Also, mellee vehicles with bases don't really work all that amazing with terrain features. No shooting at all. 3 chances to charge with 1 deepatrike though. All in all, 10 meganobz tend to work better for me. They also have 40 shots which is nice.


The ideal number for a deff dread deep strike is 2 (assuming what you were saying it was one unit). Three is too unwieldy and cumbersome I've found, and their combined footprint often means you only really have 2 deff dreadz in optimal charge placement anyways.

I feel like a deep striking gorkanaut might be better tbh, its more cost efficient CP wise regarding ramming speed and he has the weight of attacks and decent shooting to actually do something in combat when he gets there and can shoot up something if he doesn't.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/02 21:24:20


Post by: koooaei


I'll try to proxy the naught some time but stll feel that 10 meganobz would be better. For almost the same points. Meganobz are what I can suggest for every ork list tbh. They are simply good. Even if they fail a charge, they have a bit of shooting to thin down bauble wrap or some key infantry units. And the staying power is somewhat higher than that of a naught. And meganobz in cover are hard to chew through even for plasma. Means if you get a squad somewhere, they'll be useful for ground control even if the enemy is already not there.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 01:11:25


Post by: The Shrike


 koooaei wrote:
I'll try to proxy the naught some time but stll feel that 10 meganobz would be better. For almost the same points. Meganobz are what I can suggest for every ork list tbh. They are simply good. Even if they fail a charge, they have a bit of shooting to thin down bauble wrap or some key infantry units. And the staying power is somewhat higher than that of a naught. And meganobz in cover are hard to chew through even for plasma. Means if you get a squad somewhere, they'll be useful for ground control even if the enemy is already not there.


Are you factoring in the T8? Also you can get a 6++ for free if he’s Deathskullz (not to mention the increase in damage output with DS). I’m sure 10 MANZ is okay but I Tellyporta my Gorkanaut in and it’s very survivable. Good opponents screen properly, which means it’s usually on the end of one of my flanks. Laughably, I run Burnaboyz inside because they’re the cheapest infantry unit that can fit; and they can grab objectives. The Gork is fantastic in combat and pretty good in shooting too. Not as good as the Mork but good. If you’re doing typical Ork stuff and trying to pin your opponent in their deployment zone, having the Gork show up T2 just as you’re piling out of your Battlewagons can seal the deal.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 03:06:10


Post by: russellmoo


You could put kommandos in the belly of a gorkanaut. With no upgrades they are 40 points.

I usually only tend to put a mek, wierdboy or warboss in my naughts.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 03:46:05


Post by: The Shrike


russellmoo wrote:
You could put kommandos in the belly of a gorkanaut. With no upgrades they are 40 points.

I usually only tend to put a mek, wierdboy or warboss in my naughts.


That’s a good point; and they get +2 for being in cover too. Just anecdotal but in my experience, players tend to place objectives in cover. And buys me another body in there even with a Nob+PK.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 10:14:12


Post by: tneva82


 koooaei wrote:
Tried loota bomb and a relik sag mek in a 2250 game vs necrons with 4 doomsday arks, immortals, some wraiths and destroyers

Loota bomb was quite good. Wrecked an ark and a bunch of wraiths first turn. Second turn was a bit less impressive cause enemy saves were super hot but 3d turn they wrecked 2 more arks. Basically, made the game.

Relik sag mek didn't feel to be worth it vs crons. Was not worth using vs arks, wraiths had 3++ and all he did in the first 2 turns was kill a couple immortals. Even used vigilus 2cp shoot again strat and killed...1 extra immortal for 2 cp. 3d turn he killed 2 destroyers though. Anywayz, i'm not sure he's worth the hassle. 2 cp to simply get this sag...and than random str. Ap5 is nice but no invul on something worth shooting is sooooo rare. What is he supposed to shoot down? Leman russes? Yeah, now let's roll high enough str and bnumber of shots to get those wounds in. I'd rather spend this oh so needed cp elsewhere.

Also finally tried 3 deepstriking deffdreads. Was also a bit underwhelmed. It's so hard to find a plsce to deepstrike them. Also, mellee vehicles with bases don't really work all that amazing with terrain features. No shooting at all. 3 chances to charge with 1 deepatrike though. All in all, 10 meganobz tend to work better for me. They also have 40 shots which is nice.


Necrons are probably THE worst targets for SAG and traktor kannon(whose extra damage special rule basically improves their invulnerable save...). Quantum shield means few high D shots is very bad idea. Lootas though necrons are pretty much ideal targets for it. Expensive lowish T vehicles whose defence sucks vs D2 weapons? Oh yeah! Loota all the way.

If I was to play vs necrons I would not take relic SAG. BTW how does tournaments etc do the special detachments in general so far? Are they fixed at the list creation or are they like relics you can swap them between games?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 The Shrike wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
I'll try to proxy the naught some time but stll feel that 10 meganobz would be better. For almost the same points. Meganobz are what I can suggest for every ork list tbh. They are simply good. Even if they fail a charge, they have a bit of shooting to thin down bauble wrap or some key infantry units. And the staying power is somewhat higher than that of a naught. And meganobz in cover are hard to chew through even for plasma. Means if you get a squad somewhere, they'll be useful for ground control even if the enemy is already not there.


Are you factoring in the T8? Also you can get a 6++ for free if he’s Deathskullz (not to mention the increase in damage output with DS). I’m sure 10 MANZ is okay but I Tellyporta my Gorkanaut in and it’s very survivable. Good opponents screen properly, which means it’s usually on the end of one of my flanks. Laughably, I run Burnaboyz inside because they’re the cheapest infantry unit that can fit; and they can grab objectives. The Gork is fantastic in combat and pretty good in shooting too. Not as good as the Mork but good. If you’re doing typical Ork stuff and trying to pin your opponent in their deployment zone, having the Gork show up T2 just as you’re piling out of your Battlewagons can seal the deal.


6+++ is not free though as it takes away OTHER traits like evil sun to give you 8" charge rather than 9" from DS.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 13:31:35


Post by: Emicrania


One quick question, does the weirdly get +1 to cast if the orks are inside a veichle ?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 14:11:55


Post by: tneva82


No. They are not on board, they are not with#n x" to anything


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 14:59:45


Post by: BaconCatBug


The weirdboy doesn't get +1 to cast and can't even cast powers whatsoever, even in an open topped vehicle


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 16:50:11


Post by: Jidmah


I think hes was referring to other orks inside vehicles within 10".

But yeah, stuff inside transports cannot be measured to.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 19:16:36


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Everyone seen the marines no da jumping within 12" unit? Another key strategy bites the dust?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 22:18:04


Post by: Emicrania


Sorry if it wasn't clear. I meant if the weirboy get +1 to cast being outside a vehicle but there are orks in veichle nearby .


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 22:24:15


Post by: Jidmah


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Everyone seen the marines no da jumping within 12" unit? Another key strategy bites the dust?


It's a captain... I don't think I have ever set up a unit within charge range of a space marine captain in 8th.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 22:39:20


Post by: russellmoo


I think he was referring to the captain as a way of pushing back our da jumping orks.

This also points out another codex weakness, orks have a harder time than imperial armies when it comes to assassinating characters.

Snikrot should have a rule that allows him to just pop up 3" from an enemy character . You might actually see him on the table if they gave him the tools he needed to get into close combat.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 22:52:44


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 Jidmah wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Everyone seen the marines no da jumping within 12" unit? Another key strategy bites the dust?


It's a captain... I don't think I have ever set up a unit within charge range of a space marine captain in 8th.

Erm. Yes the captain. And their rank and file units 'Infiltrators'.

russellmoo wrote:
I think he was referring to the captain as a way of pushing back our da jumping orks.

This also points out another codex weakness, orks have a harder time than imperial armies when it comes to assassinating characters.

Snikrot should have a rule that allows him to just pop up 3" from an enemy character . You might actually see him on the table if they gave him the tools he needed to get into close combat.
You are absolutely correct except that I wsdnt referring to the captain only in this instance.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/03 23:06:08


Post by: flandarz


What's the specific rule? Cuz if it just refers to deepstriking, then Da Jump is still able to get within that 12".


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/04 03:09:13


Post by: Trimarius


"Enemy units that are set up on the battlefield as reinforcements cannot be set up within 12" of this unit." So Da Jump (and anything that starts on the table but teleports up) should still work.

It's a lot harsher on GSC, but those guys don't have camo cloaks, so you only have to go through five 2W/2+ (I imagine they'll scout deploy into cover) at -1 to hit (smoke will likely come down turn one).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/04 04:12:46


Post by: Vineheart01


if its worded to mention reserves in any way, Da Jump doesnt care. Same reason why Da Jump works turn1 in the first place, no reserve mechanic involved.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/04 04:27:38


Post by: koooaei


Space marines allready have ds mitigation with their auspecs. The new strictly deepstrike denial rule just cements it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/04 14:27:28


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Auspex is worded in exactly the same way and operates on Da Jumping units. Await a quick FAQ but don't be surprised if it affects da jumped units.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/04 16:03:35


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Emicrania wrote:
Sorry if it wasn't clear. I meant if the weirboy get +1 to cast being outside a vehicle but there are orks in veichle nearby .
Again, no. You cannot measure to the Orks inside the vehicle since the orks are "removed from the battlefield".


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/04 18:23:52


Post by: russellmoo


What have been player's experiences with stormboyz? Anyone trying to run them competitively, or do they lack the durability to be a competitive choice?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/04 18:26:26


Post by: tneva82


One issue they suffer is from lack of advance+assault naturally with no fast waaagh provider so you need to stringline if you want the T1 assault with them. For T2 assault there's less difference in ability for them and for boyz to charge anyway.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/04 18:59:38


Post by: Vineheart01


Wazbom question:

Teleport Mega Blasta's special ability. Am i correct that when a model loses a wound, their actual characteristic isnt changed correct? So a Teleport Mega Blasta's special effect literally cannot work on W6+ targets?

Kitbashing a wazbom and for some reason im second guessing how that rule works. Which changes it from complete garbage to really dang good imo if i did read it wrong (as in, what i said above is not true)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/04 19:31:24


Post by: PiñaColada


Yeah, unfortunately that's correct. Wound characteristic is the amount of wounds it says on the datasheet, not remaining wounds.

The tellyport weaponry are fun but rarely all that useful. Not worth the 12 point upgrade IMO, even if you get more guaranteed shots


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/04 19:36:56


Post by: Vineheart01


Yeah i figured.
Number of shots and the range of damage means usually you are going to kill said multiwound model thats 5 or less anyway. A model with 5 might be alive, but thats a 1/6th chance to finish off probably 1 wound anyway.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/04 20:59:44


Post by: flandarz


I wouldn't be surprised with they do FAQ it to apply to Da Jump. GW seems like they'd prefer everyone to stay in their deployment zones and stick to ranged attacks.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 07:40:24


Post by: Moriarty


tneva82 wrote:
One issue they suffer is from lack of advance+assault naturally with no fast waaagh provider so you need to stringline if you want the T1 assault with them. For T2 assault there's less difference in ability for them and for boyz to charge anyway.


Though you could add a Warboss on bike from Index to help.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 08:37:42


Post by: tneva82


That's if index is allowed. Here it's not.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 08:57:48


Post by: Jidmah


Well, you could give the wartrike the Waaagh! Aura as warlord trait if you really want to make it work.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 09:01:16


Post by: tneva82


that's putting awfully lot resources into the unit...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 09:24:45


Post by: Jidmah


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Auspex is worded in exactly the same way and operates on Da Jumping units. Await a quick FAQ but don't be surprised if it affects da jumped units.


I've had a look at them and discussed them with some of our marine players.

They are PL 5 for 5 and PL11 for 10. Which means they are probably ~20 points per model, for a single primaris marine with a bolter. Not the 30" AP-1 primaris bolter, but a regular one with a slightly better chance to wound.

All the marine players agree that they are great troops in pure marine armies, since they lack the means to deny deep strikes which other armies can archive with their throw-way troops like cultists, pox walkers, gretchin, etc.
However, for soups those infiltrators don't hold a candle to the loyal 32, as each infiltrator costs as much as five(!) guardsmen who can easily cover just as much area as the one infiltrator with his 12" bubble and have five 5+ wounds rather than two 3+ wounds that get killed by single loota shot.

Of course, all this is assuming that you can just plug them into any space marine detachment are not limited to field them a some special detachment.

So yes, pure space marines will have a great protection against deep strikes, but they are still expensive primaris marines and most likely standing in front of their army rather than hidden in a ruin somewhere like helblasters. And it's not like any of the space marines are are difficult to beat unless they soup in knights, guard or custodes.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 09:56:14


Post by: PiñaColada


It's tricky. Yes, they are soooo much more expensive than a guardsman and generally speaking nowhere near as good. But at least with guardsmen you can deepstrike 9.01" away and with evil sunz that's a very doable charge. The infiltrators just shut that down completely, even though their footprint is less.

I'm not sure how much this will affect the meta after all is said and done, but considering they're troops we might start seeing armies that can't be deepstruck from here on in


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 13:20:20


Post by: G00fySmiley


tneva82 wrote:
That's if index is allowed. Here it's not.


I would be finding a new place to play then. I have a lot of models that I have built and love playing, my warboss on a bike is my first conversion and I don't plan to ever not use it. I have gotten much better at conversions but its kind of part of my history or converting and looting vehicles.

As for ways around it if staying there... as Jidmah said the wartrike can take the warlord trate to give waaagh, alternatively a bone breaker wagon filled with a Warboss on foot, 7-8 Nobz on foot and 10 gretchin (to pop out up front and try to snag objectives in the path the nbz and warboss clear) is always a good investment they can whip up the board fairly quickly. if you are going second pop the everything in cover strat or have a wazboom blasta jet to give that 5++ and have it in range


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 13:36:37


Post by: tneva82


 G00fySmiley wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
That's if index is allowed. Here it's not.


I would be finding a new place to play then. I have a lot of models that I have built and love playing, my warboss on a bike is my first conversion and I don't plan to ever not use it. I have gotten much better at conversions but its kind of part of my history or converting and looting vehicles.

As for ways around it if staying there... as Jidmah said the wartrike can take the warlord trate to give waaagh, alternatively a bone breaker wagon filled with a Warboss on foot, 7-8 Nobz on foot and 10 gretchin (to pop out up front and try to snag objectives in the path the nbz and warboss clear) is always a good investment they can whip up the board fairly quickly. if you are going second pop the everything in cover strat or have a wazboom blasta jet to give that 5++ and have it in range


Sure moving outside country just for that is viable

And yeah wartrike but that's putting in tons of resources for dubious purpose. And bone breaker only gives the 3" extra from disembark for the warboss. Not that huge deal.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 14:24:30


Post by: G00fySmiley


tneva82 wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
That's if index is allowed. Here it's not.


I would be finding a new place to play then. I have a lot of models that I have built and love playing, my warboss on a bike is my first conversion and I don't plan to ever not use it. I have gotten much better at conversions but its kind of part of my history or converting and looting vehicles.

As for ways around it if staying there... as Jidmah said the wartrike can take the warlord trate to give waaagh, alternatively a bone breaker wagon filled with a Warboss on foot, 7-8 Nobz on foot and 10 gretchin (to pop out up front and try to snag objectives in the path the nbz and warboss clear) is always a good investment they can whip up the board fairly quickly. if you are going second pop the everything in cover strat or have a wazboom blasta jet to give that 5++ and have it in range


Sure moving outside country just for that is viable

And yeah wartrike but that's putting in tons of resources for dubious purpose. And bone breaker only gives the 3" extra from disembark for the warboss. Not that huge deal.


i doubt nobody in your country will use index. is it like an official GW store thing or some local game store/club rule? either way its per the rules still an option to take it. not allowing it is as arbitrary as saying oh you play space marines cool, you cna bring any models you want except captains. or oh you play tau cool, bring any models as you want but no crisis suits.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 17:31:49


Post by: russellmoo


oh, you play tau cool . . . no crises suits
e

Sounds like a good rule to me I



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 17:51:20


Post by: Vineheart01


the bikerboss, bikermek, and bikerpainboy made sense because they never had a proper model. Still irritating, but it follows their new mentality of "no model, no rules"
Footmek going away made 0 sense because they DID have a proper model for it. Its just recently OOP, im assuming because the mold broke or something because its the same quality as the other hyper-ancient finecasts we still got floating around.

They really need to give orks a proper boss/mek box....


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 17:57:06


Post by: G00fySmiley


 Vineheart01 wrote:
the bikerboss, bikermek, and bikerpainboy made sense because they never had a proper model. Still irritating, but it follows their new mentality of "no model, no rules"
Footmek going away made 0 sense because they DID have a proper model for it. Its just recently OOP, im assuming because the mold broke or something because its the same quality as the other hyper-ancient finecasts we still got floating around.

They really need to give orks a proper boss/mek box....


true, but forgeworld does a warboss on a bike kit (though out of print per website now)

as for the big mek on foot that does nto have a SAG yea the kff was available up until a little while back I ordered mine new at a local store seems like around a year ago when i wanted a second one.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 18:14:47


Post by: Vineheart01


isnt the forgeworld boss technically Zhadsnark? Not a generic boss?
I know they also have nob bikers which might explain why we still have that dataslate.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 18:21:08


Post by: G00fySmiley


 Vineheart01 wrote:
isnt the forgeworld boss technically Zhadsnark? Not a generic boss?
I know they also have nob bikers which might explain why we still have that dataslate.


inspired by Zhadsnark, but title is "warboss on a bike"

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Ork-Warboss-on-Bike


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 21:16:29


Post by: tneva82


 G00fySmiley wrote:

i doubt nobody in your country will use index. is it like an official GW store thing or some local game store/club rule? either way its per the rules still an option to take it. not allowing it is as arbitrary as saying oh you play space marines cool, you cna bring any models you want except captains. or oh you play tau cool, bring any models as you want but no crisis suits.


Maybe some tournament in up north has them but every tournament that I have seen in south where I go around including the capital of Finland which is biggest tournament scene in Finland has them. Moving some 500km north isn't most viable options either ;-) That practically is moving to another country(there is foreign countries closer than that I think...Don't think that gulf west is 500km wide).

Anyway battle report time. Long time since got game. Game nights on tuesdays and now there's Japan lessons on same time eating some of tuesdays. Top of that couple tuesdays I was about to play got sick and last week when I was going the reserve player got sick so having to choose certain Japanese lessons or MAYBE game if there's somebody there to play against(nobody was agreeing any games in advance at local whatsup group...) I went for sure fun. So this time I went and 1 player + reserve player showed up so my orks took up against adeptus mechanicum. I took modified list from the casual 1750 pts tournament that I had also supposed to play but had fell ill so missed that too(this year has not been good for 40k gaming. Plenty of Adeptus Titanicus and Lords of the Ring, almost no 40k).
Spoiler:

Deathskull battallion. Warboss w/big choppa, big mek w/SAG, 2x30 boyz(19xchoppas and 19xshootas plus 10 of other weapon, big choppa and power klaw for nobs), 16 grots, 10 tank bustas, 4 smasha guns, 2 traktor kannons and 2 KMK's. Goff battallion with warboss w/da killa klaw and brutal&kunning, da jump weirdboy, 2x10 grots, 30xchoppa boyz w/power klaw, gorkanaut.

He had I think 3 big infantry units, 2 units of some h2h guys(1 deep striking), 2 plasmabots, 4 cavalry riders, 3 big walkers, one being AA version. Couple characters, 2 small units with snipers and 2 armigers.

We rolled mission from CA2018 and got the one where you CHOOSE 2 maelstrom cards and then 2 cards per completed. So basically 3-4 VP for both 1st turn and then lotsa cards. I got to pick deployment zone so actually went for hammer&anvil seeing I had lotsa shooting and tellyporta to where I put skarboyz, one deathskull mob and gorkanaut(much to opponents shock when I said it's coming in deep strike).

He got first turn and I failed to seize. Due to distances he didn't get to do much except blew out 16 grots from front of mek guns with cavalry heading there. They almost survived but then he remembered he hadn't moved AA walker. I said ok move it. He moved it to position to shoot and good rolling blew out grots. Whoops. Well bad news is he has clear charge line to guns. Good news is he needs 8". And he got 4+3. Yey. He command rerolled 3 and...2. Yey. This was fairly big. He also blew 2 mek guns with his freem beams from walkers(S10, d6 damage minimum 3? Holy smokey. Rerolling 1's to hit on caniples that was practically auto kill per walker).

Ork 1. I picked up master of warp and defend 2(automatic basically with weirdboy and grot unit). Deathskull boys moved toward chicken riders. Goff warboss was hoping to get there but 1 on advance and needing to go around guns meant I would need like 9-10" so decided to hang around still. Weird boy da jumped tank bustas near armigers making sure just in case I'm in range even to further one. Then shooting. I started with SAG against front armiger and rolled 1 shot...Ugh. Maybe not tactically smart with 6 CP left but rerolled it. Much more respectable 5. Then strenght. And BEAUTIFULL double 6! First time I got 11+ strenght!

RULE QUESTION: Could I roll both stats before deciding what to reroll? Here I rerolled shots before knowing strenght.

Anyway not getting too excited still needing 5+ to hit I rolled them and...4 hits! WOW! 7 wounds from mortals and 10 or so more from regular wounds and first knight was insta killed. Guess warp tunnel opened inside the pilot or something...

Wrecker strategem to tank bustas ensured that they got tons of wounds and rotate ion shield didn't help. 4 past saves, second knight dead. Then mek gun battery unleashed fire and all 4 chicken riders died even though I kept rolling multiple d6's at same time at which point I decreed them in worst way for me(6 and 3 vs unwounded 6 wound model I declared 3 and then 6 is order thus no spread. If things were tighter I might suggest either rerolling or dicing 4+ which goes first but this was going so pearshaped for him I was feeling generous here).

AM 2: Deep strikers came near tank bustas. Rest of army moves forward or prepares to shoot. Shooting clears 3 mek guns and whole loads of death skull boys. H2h guys come and charge but don't wipe the unit losing half their numbers. Warboss kept rest of boys alive or they would have ran away with 18 casualties and 8 orks left. The deep strikers tried to charge tank bustas but failed again and another CP reroll needing again 4+ failed...

Orks 2: Warboss(both) move toward some AM HQ behind the HQ guys. Tank bustas backed away a bit. Death skull boys were green tided(I debated with this and 3d6" charge for gorkanaut) coming behind his deep strikers. Skarboyz appeared near AA vehicle on far corner and gorkanaut next to the 2 ZZZZZAP walkers. Shooting gorkanaut dropped 10 infantry unit, the 2 h2h guys were gunned down and deathskulls dropped some infantry as well(shootas are surprisingly useful). H2h gorkanaut charged into zzzap walker blowing it and piling into 2nd. Goffs failed charge. Deathskull didn't and wiped the deep strikers. Warbosses charged with deathskull leading the way taking overwatch and HQ died messily. I forgot to position myself to take objective and gorkanaut should have held firing rokkits and not kill last guy to ensure I get psychological warfare. Ah well. I was soooo owning this game(due to dice luck) that I can afford these.

AM3: He had not much he COULD do. Walker disengaged from gorkanaut. Plasmabots finally put in double firepower mode having got into position. He fired what he could dropping 11 deathskulls and 8 wounds to gorkanaut. Nowhere near enough....Oh and did kill deathskull warboss. He had blood&guts and +1S maniple and not having much to lose the basic infantry even tried to charge my goff warboss with da killa klaw but needing 6" charge failed YET AGAIN despite THIRD CP reroll. Really? This is just adding salt to injury...

Orks 3: Game over basically. Goffs moved and charged his warlord killing it. Gorkanaut moved and killed 2nd zzap walker. Deathskulls went to objective and 2nd deathskull mob appeared. After goffs killed his warlord they piled into dakkabots and he gave up with...Well one walker not in combat, 2 sniper squads and that's about it what he had left...Plasma bots are immobile unable to move and no way they can kill goffs. Warlord would have easy time walking there to kill them if needed and fresh death skull unit clears snipers out no problem. I had basically lost 5 mek guns, some dozen death skull boyz, handfull goff boyz and 16 grots and that's it...

One of my easiest and most crushing victory. Was my list cheesier than I thought O_o Though luck itself was clearly in my favour big time. No way in wildest dreams I expected to blow out all chicken riders and 2 knights in first round. He got nothing working and then I just steam rolled over.



[Thumb - IMG_20190305_174332.jpg]
[Thumb - IMG_20190305_190313.jpg]


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 22:34:29


Post by: Emicrania


Just checked out a post from Ben Jurek and looks like he updated his freebooterz list, which is exactly what i wanted to play more or less:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [27 PL, 539pts] ++
Clan Kultur: Freebooterz
+ HQ [14 PL, 271pts] +
Big Mek on Warbike (Index) [6 PL, 110pts]: Kustom Force Field [20pts], Kustom Mega-blasta [9pts]
Warboss on Warbike (index) [5 PL, 99pts]: Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw [13pts]
Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]
+ Troops [13 PL, 268pts] +
Boyz [11 PL, 208pts]
Boss Nob [12pts]: Big Choppa [5pts], Shoota (Index)
28x Ork Boy W/ Shoota [196pts]
Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]
Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Orks) [49 PL, -1CP, 996pts] ++
Clan Kultur: Freebooterz
Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh! [-1CP]
+ HQ [7 PL, 146pts] +
Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Big Killa Boss, Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler [4pts], Shokk Attack Gun [25pts], Warlord
Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]
+ Heavy Support [42 PL, 850pts] +
Gorkanaut [15 PL, 311pts]: 2x Rokkit Launcha [24pts], Skorcha [17pts], 2x Twin Big Shoota [20pts]
Gorkanaut [15 PL, 311pts]: 2x Rokkit Launcha [24pts], Skorcha [17pts], 2x Twin Big Shoota [20pts]
Mek Gunz [12 PL, 228pts]
Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]
Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]
Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]
Gun [2 PL, 45pts]: Traktor Kannon [30pts]
Gun [2 PL, 45pts]: Traktor Kannon [30pts]
Gun [2 PL, 45pts]: Traktor Kannon [30pts]

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Orks) [22 PL, 465pts] ++
Clan Kultur: Freebooterz
+ Flyer [22 PL, 465pts] +
Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota [60pts]
Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota [60pts]
Wazbom Blastajet [8 PL, 169pts]: 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons [24pts], Kustom Force Field [20pts], Smasha Gun [16pts], Supa Shoota [10pts]




No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 23:21:13


Post by: The Shrike


That list is awesome; Tellyporta for both Gork’s?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/05 23:47:11


Post by: Emicrania


That would be advised vs castellans or eldari soups I believe, otherwise you might aswell get midfield and shoot a ton of dakka ok 4+ with the freebooterz trait .


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 00:07:06


Post by: flandarz


That list looks real fun, not gonna lie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd probably lose the air wing detachment and bump the Spearhead to a Battalion, myself. But still interesting.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 00:23:10


Post by: blaktoof


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Auspex is worded in exactly the same way and operates on Da Jumping units. Await a quick FAQ but don't be surprised if it affects da jumped units.


Auspex does not work on Da Jumping units after the current BRB faq.

Auspex requires the unit to be placed on the battlefield arriving from reinforcements.

the following faq question had a different answer until recently

Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?
A: Yes.


The previous answer stated that such abilities count as arriving as reinforcements. That has been removed. Prior to the September 2018 FAQ it did work, now it does not.

Auspex scan does not work on Da Jump, as they are not arriving to the battlefield as reinforcements. Which is also the reason you can Da Jump an unit turn 1.

Which also mean Da Jump and the infiltrator rule to deny reinforcements arriving(GSC one as well) do not interact in any way as Da Jump is not reinforcements.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 11:44:12


Post by: An Actual Englishman


blaktoof wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Auspex is worded in exactly the same way and operates on Da Jumping units. Await a quick FAQ but don't be surprised if it affects da jumped units.


Auspex does not work on Da Jumping units after the current BRB faq.

Auspex requires the unit to be placed on the battlefield arriving from reinforcements.

the following faq question had a different answer until recently

Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?
A: Yes.


The previous answer stated that such abilities count as arriving as reinforcements. That has been removed. Prior to the September 2018 FAQ it did work, now it does not.

Auspex scan does not work on Da Jump, as they are not arriving to the battlefield as reinforcements. Which is also the reason you can Da Jump an unit turn 1.

Which also mean Da Jump and the infiltrator rule to deny reinforcements arriving(GSC one as well) do not interact in any way as Da Jump is not reinforcements.



Good to know and nice spot! Glad to know we're not too badly affected.

As Jiddah said the cost of the units is probably a little prohibitive so it wasn't a major concern anyway. They aren't going to flood the board with these units I don't think.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 11:50:47


Post by: Jidmah


 flandarz wrote:
That list looks real fun, not gonna lie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd probably lose the air wing detachment and bump the Spearhead to a Battalion, myself. But still interesting.


The airwing is crucial to his strategy, as the easiest way to trigger the freeboota trait is to jump a dakkajet next to a support character and riddle it with bullets. In later turns they also excel at clearing out wounded infantry units.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 12:19:52


Post by: Emicrania


 Jidmah wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
That list looks real fun, not gonna lie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd probably lose the air wing detachment and bump the Spearhead to a Battalion, myself. But still interesting.


The airwing is crucial to his strategy, as the easiest way to trigger the freeboota trait is to jump a dakkajet next to a support character and riddle it with bullets. In later turns they also excel at clearing out wounded infantry units.


This, the whole point is to trigger the freebooterz trait and dakkajet are great to do that cleaning chaffs. A DJ with long uncontrolled burst hits jetbikes and JP Marines at 3s


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 13:00:29


Post by: tneva82


Isn't range bit of issue though? Those supporting characters are likely going to be behind enemy lines. To get it as closest plane also is going to be behind enemy lines thus 24" from plane isn't going to reach your DZ for sure.

Something like 10 IG squad sure. Support character hiding behind enemy lines(and careless of enemy if he allows plane to park next to character...) should be much harder.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 15:12:31


Post by: Jidmah


There are characters which are only screened from shooting but otherwise exposed because their job is to get into someone's face like daemon princes, smash captains or shield captains. Jumping next to those is almost always possible.

In addition, you can chain that +1 to hit to the next dakkajet or the Wazzbom, or the shoota boyz that have jumped towards the enemy and those can use that bonus to trigger it for themselves.

Oh, and by turn 2 you have two nauts benefiting from that aura.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 17:00:50


Post by: flandarz


I was under the impression that the Mek Gunz were there to proc the +1. Since they can't benefit from the bonus, but *can* provide it. I can see using the jets to character "snipe", though I assume most folks are gonna bubblewrap their more vulnerable characters anyway.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 17:32:25


Post by: Emicrania


Honestly, going first, I would deploy the G-nauts. Beside a couple of rockets everything should in range T1.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 18:46:38


Post by: russellmoo


I think what helps make this list work is that it has options. Depending on the opponent and what they are bringing will depend upon whether or not you pay to deep strike. Some lists can't punch through armor at range well enough for example chaos lists and ork lists but if you are staring at a volcano gun then you are best off hiding the robots.

I think the mek gunz also are going to confuse target priority if
you put them on the table with some jets and some naughts.

The other aspect of his choices is that jets and gunz are not stratagem dependant.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 19:29:59


Post by: tneva82


 flandarz wrote:
I was under the impression that the Mek Gunz were there to proc the +1. Since they can't benefit from the bonus, but *can* provide it. I can see using the jets to character "snipe", though I assume most folks are gonna bubblewrap their more vulnerable characters anyway.


Yeah that was my impression. Why depend on dakkajets for that due to range issue especially with character sniping if you have pile of mek guns that can destroy units but can't benefit from the bonus themself? Or in other words if dakkajet is in range to give bonus he's in range to benefit FROM The bonus. Get the +1 for the dakkajets as well!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 19:33:15


Post by: An Actual Englishman


russellmoo wrote:

The other aspect of his choices is that jets and gunz are not stratagem dependant.

Yea I think this is the key - no reliance on stratagems means the list doesn't fall apart when Vect'd and there is a decent amount of anti armour. Plus very few players know what the Freeboota trait does and certainly don't expect Dakka orks.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 21:33:47


Post by: Jidmah


tneva82 wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
I was under the impression that the Mek Gunz were there to proc the +1. Since they can't benefit from the bonus, but *can* provide it. I can see using the jets to character "snipe", though I assume most folks are gonna bubblewrap their more vulnerable characters anyway.


Yeah that was my impression. Why depend on dakkajets for that due to range issue especially with character sniping if you have pile of mek guns that can destroy units but can't benefit from the bonus themself? Or in other words if dakkajet is in range to give bonus he's in range to benefit FROM The bonus. Get the +1 for the dakkajets as well!


I'm just repeating what the pilot of that list said about it himself. If you can pilot it better than him, more power to you


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 21:44:49


Post by: Coh Magnussen


 Emicrania wrote:
Honestly, going first, I would deploy the G-nauts. Beside a couple of rockets everything should in range T1.


Barring a Kunnin' but Brutal redeploy, is there a way to know whether you're going first when you decide where to put the g-nauts?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 21:58:35


Post by: tneva82


Coh Magnussen wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
Honestly, going first, I would deploy the G-nauts. Beside a couple of rockets everything should in range T1.


Barring a Kunnin' but Brutal redeploy, is there a way to know whether you're going first when you decide where to put the g-nauts?


With CA2018 books you will be going 5/6 times first when you deploy with assumption that you go first. If opponent rolls that 6 to seize tough luck.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/06 22:28:54


Post by: flandarz


I doubt it. I'm just wondering why is all. I feel like he'd have been better off deploying more Mek Gunz (and maybe grabbing a few extra CP along the way, if he can eke out another Battalion). I know the list ain't CP reliant, but they're still a good thing to have in your pocket for rerolls and whatnot.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/07 01:06:32


Post by: flaming tadpole


Does anyone know when the faq is suppose to be coming out this month?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/07 07:32:19


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 flaming tadpole wrote:
Does anyone know when the faq is suppose to be coming out this month?

Given the lack of news about it and focus on the Shadowspear box I doubt it'll be out this month.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/07 08:18:38


Post by: PiñaColada


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
Does anyone know when the faq is suppose to be coming out this month?

Given the lack of news about it and focus on the Shadowspear box I doubt it'll be out this month.

Well, last year they changed the name of it from the March FAQ to the Spring FAQ. One of the reasons they pushed it into April was because of Adepticon and they didn't want to release it shortly beofre/during that event. Adepticon is at the very end of March this year so I'm guessing we see the FAQ in roughly a months' time, meaning first/second week of April.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/07 08:31:51


Post by: Jidmah


 flaming tadpole wrote:
Does anyone know when the faq is suppose to be coming out this month?


This or next month. I'd wager not even the people at GW know when it will be release at this point.

Of course, this won't stop a completely irrational rage train from happening all over the internet like it always does.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/07 10:36:49


Post by: An Actual Englishman


It's not irrational to expect the March FAQ in March. Perhaps the level of rage was irrational though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/07 10:58:25


Post by: PiñaColada


Hopefully it was a learning experience for everyone involved.

GW stating that it won't be released in March (and only on their facebook page IIRC) when there's like 3 days left in March wasn't the best idea most likely. People expected way too much in regards to sweeping game mechanics changing.

I'm not sure what to expect in the spring FAQ because IMO GW still hasn't explained well what we should expect to see in them. Whenever people are upset that some mechanic didn't change/other type of rules change the answer is basically that's what CA is for, but when that comes around suddenly that isn't what CA is for either.

I -hope- we get point changes because GWs stance that those are for CA is monumentally stupid. Don't put them in a printed book, the lead time is too long. Dark Eldar weren't touched in CA 2018 and they were released in like April, that's insane. CA should be to introduce new missions, expand on terrain rules, maybe update how CP work. The big stuff needing longer and well written explanations.

The FAQs should have the point updates (meaning twice a year), so they can react and rebalance much quicker. And they should introduce beta rules to counteract problems that popped up during the year. In addition to just normal FAQ stuff obviously.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/07 17:08:06


Post by: russellmoo


I agree, in part because waiting for chapter approved means that the orks would be waiting just short of a year without a points update.

As an aside I hate how my auto fill always changes orks to works.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/07 17:15:26


Post by: Vineheart01


not to mention the forgeworld stuff is lumped into it for some reason too.
Battlewagon with Supa Kannon is still marked for original battlewagon price and its irritating the heck out of me. Its a 40pt difference!!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 04:25:09


Post by: TedNugent


So, this is a thing.

Included in the statistical analysis in this video, they mention that the win rate for the relic shokk attack gun lists was 53%, whereas for the non relic SAG lists, the win rate was close to 40%, and they noted the striking difference between the two ratios while talking about the relic SAG's strength.




I heard this while I was at work, it was in the latter half of the segment. Ork win rate was nearly 50% over all. This is from memory and I unfortunately don't have a time stamp.

It's worth listening to the entire podcast for anyone who wants to mine this for information. Ynnari lead everything, followed by specifically Imperial Guard-Castellan lists. Also noteworthy is a huge difference between Castellan lists of different houses with a swing in win ratios of over 10% for one house in particular.

Orks struggled against - of all things, space marines and craftworlds, beating out Tyranids, Admech and Ynnari at greater than 50% ratios in head-to-head matches. They go to length to muse about the fact that orks lost to lower performing armies more frequently while doing better against some of the meta armies.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 09:10:23


Post by: Singleton Mosby


Thanks for the link to the podcast. Now listening.

I am gearing up for a local tournament in which I will field the following list, what do you think?

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [27 PL, 1749pts] ++
Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

+ HQ +
Big Mek: Souped up SAG
Warboss on Warbike: Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw

+ Troops +
3x Gretchin

+ Elite +
Nobs: 1x Big Choppa / 3x Kombi-skorscha / 1x Kustom shoota / 3x Dual choppa / Ammo runt
Tankbustas: 8 bustas + 2 Bomb squigs

+ Fast Attack +
Kustom Boosta Blasta
Kustom Boosat Blasta

+ Heavy support +
Bonebreaker
Flash Gitz + ammo runt
3x Smasha gun

+ Flyers +
Dakkajet 6x supashoota
Wazbom-Blastajet with KFF

+ Transports +
Chinork Warkopta
Chinork Warkopta
Chinork Warkopta

----

Preferably I would have put some nobs in the Bonebreaker and take some extra Gitz. But I simply can't find the time to paint these. The Gitz, Bustas and Nobs go in the Chinorks. They are either used for deepstrike (turn one the Gitz, turn two the Bustas) depending on the shooting capability of the enemies army. The Warkopta with the nob will hide behind the bonebreaker and then race 24" towards the foe using their skorchas. The Bonebreaker will be used as some sort of distraction Carnifex, hopefully drawing attention away from the Warkopta's. If not it will charge and trigger the Freebootaz trait for the Bikerboss and Nobs. Well, that's the theory. I have no idea if it is work but I guess fun is guaranteed with this list.

Let's hear your thoughts!




No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 09:35:50


Post by: Jidmah


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It's not irrational to expect the March FAQ in March. Perhaps the level of rage was irrational though.


It's irrational to call the Spring FAQ "March FAQ"


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 09:44:22


Post by: tneva82


 Jidmah wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It's not irrational to expect the March FAQ in March. Perhaps the level of rage was irrational though.


It's irrational to call the Spring FAQ "March FAQ"


Not when GW names it march faq.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Singleton Mosby wrote:

Preferably I would have put some nobs in the Bonebreaker and take some extra Gitz. But I simply can't find the time to paint these. The Gitz, Bustas and Nobs go in the Chinorks. They are either used for deepstrike (turn one the Gitz, turn two the Bustas) depending on the shooting capability of the enemies army. The Warkopta with the nob will hide behind the bonebreaker and then race 24" towards the foe using their skorchas. The Bonebreaker will be used as some sort of distraction Carnifex, hopefully drawing attention away from the Warkopta's. If not it will charge and trigger the Freebootaz trait for the Bikerboss and Nobs. Well, that's the theory. I have no idea if it is work but I guess fun is guaranteed with this list.

Let's hear your thoughts!




Nobs have way too expensive gear and when your clan trait helps BS why are you taking BS ignoring weapons?

Turn 1 deep strikes are these days banned so no gits deep striking T1.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 09:48:15


Post by: Jidmah


Actually, they named it "Big FAQ"


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 09:51:48


Post by: Singleton Mosby


tneva82 wrote:

Nobs have way too expensive gear and when your clan trait helps BS why are you taking BS ignoring weapons?


Good question. Reason one is Rule of cool. How awesome is a 24" moving Warkopta with skorachas? The reason I use only three is because they are way too expensive. Reason two is to trigger the clain trait when taking out a screening unit or charater with those flamers.


tneva82 wrote:
Turn 1 deep strikes are these days banned so no gits deep striking T1.


I place them in my own deployment zone from reserves, not technically a deepstrike indeed.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 10:15:23


Post by: Jidmah


Units may not arrive on the battlefield using alternative deployment methods (commonly referred to as"deep strike") turn 1, not matter where you place them.

So you either deploy them on the table for your enemy to shoot if they get turn 1 or they stay off the table until turn 2. No in-betweens.

So tneva is correct in that regard.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 10:42:49


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Jidmah wrote:
Units may not arrive on the battlefield using alternative deployment methods (commonly referred to as"deep strike") turn 1, not matter where you place them.

So you either deploy them on the table for your enemy to shoot if they get turn 1 or they stay off the table until turn 2. No in-betweens.

So tneva is correct in that regard.


I was refering to Tactical reserves in turn one (in your own deploymnet zone) and Deepstrike from turn 2.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 10:44:15


Post by: tneva82


 Singleton Mosby wrote:


tneva82 wrote:
Turn 1 deep strikes are these days banned so no gits deep striking T1.


I place them in my own deployment zone from reserves, not technically a deepstrike indeed.


If they are not on board after deployment they do not come T1 period. You either deploy them to your deployment zone on deployment or you come turn 2 earliest. No exceptions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Units may not arrive on the battlefield using alternative deployment methods (commonly referred to as"deep strike") turn 1, not matter where you place them.

So you either deploy them on the table for your enemy to shoot if they get turn 1 or they stay off the table until turn 2. No in-betweens.

So tneva is correct in that regard.


I was refering to Tactical reserves in turn one (in your own deploymnet zone) and Deepstrike from turn 2.


There is no tactical reserves coming in turn one. Period. All units that aren't deployed in deployment zone can come to board on turn 2 earliest. No exceptions. If your group doesn't play with that rule(who doesnt' these days?) you can come in from deep strike anywhere on T1 without restrictions.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 10:55:19


Post by: Singleton Mosby


Ok. That's a new one for me. With regards to the list it doesn't really matter.

tneva82 wrote:

There is no tactical reserves coming in turn one. Period. All units that aren't deployed in deployment zone can come to board on turn 2 earliest. No exceptions. If your group doesn't play with that rule(who doesnt' these days?) you can come in from deep strike anywhere on T1 without restrictions.


Where can this change to the Tactical Reserves rule be found?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 11:13:47


Post by: Jidmah


Tactical reserves cannot be used outside of missions which explicitly allow you to use them, the vast majority of missions doesn't allow them.

Besides, you were the one saying you could deep strike gitz turn one, so maybe let's stop moving goalposts, k?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 11:37:01


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Ok. That's a new one for me. With regards to the list it doesn't really matter.

tneva82 wrote:

There is no tactical reserves coming in turn one. Period. All units that aren't deployed in deployment zone can come to board on turn 2 earliest. No exceptions. If your group doesn't play with that rule(who doesnt' these days?) you can come in from deep strike anywhere on T1 without restrictions.


Where can this change to the Tactical Reserves rule be found?
The Big FAQ. Check the sticky in YMDC


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 21:20:06


Post by: koooaei


Assassins are gona shape the meta. We'll have to adapt. Infantry characters and boy blobz don't seem to be too optimal. I reeeeally don't want to get forced to play the loota boomb to stay afloat.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 23:10:05


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 Jidmah wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It's not irrational to expect the March FAQ in March. Perhaps the level of rage was irrational though.


It's irrational to call the Spring FAQ "March FAQ"

GW themselves released an infographic saying it would be released in March. Then wondered why people were frustrated when it didn't show in the month they claimed it would. The definition of irrational.

But yea, it's been pushed back to April now.
 koooaei wrote:
Assassins are gona shape the meta. We'll have to adapt. Infantry characters and boy blobz don't seem to be too optimal. I reeeeally don't want to get forced to play the loota boomb to stay afloat.


Assassins are a massive problem for us given that our characters that can stand up to them are index only, incredibly expensive or just severely sub-optimal.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/08 23:17:22


Post by: flandarz


Yeah. Our characters need a drastic point drop. We kinda got screwed by CA dropping right after our Codex.

That said, Freebootas and Mek Gunz are a solid alternative to the Loota Bomb, if you'd rather not do them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/09 07:58:07


Post by: Moriarty


The ‘March’ faq being similar to the ‘Orktober’ event, then?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/09 09:12:15


Post by: PiñaColada


I'm not sure if GW ever called it the "March FAQ" but all their roadmaps had a Big FAQ due to be released in March. After they missed that deadline last year they came out and just called it the "Spring FAQ" so there's really no evidence it's coming out in March this year.

As I said above, one of the reasons they missed last years deadline was due to scheduling conflicts with Adepticon and whether or not that is a valid reason in any of our opinions the same scheduling conflicts are going to appear this year. Meaning we either get it the next week or so, or the first 10-15 days in April will end up being the most likely.

Regarding characters and assassins, yeah the vindicare is scary but then we can at least hide them out of LoS. The new eliminators have mortis rounds which ignore LoS and while the shots themselves aren't the strongest they will easily threaten weirdboyz and the like.

The assassin I'm most annoyed by is the eversor. He's an absolute blender and when he dies he blows up 6" only targeting enemy units. That guy can basically mop up boyz squads by himself


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/09 19:19:12


Post by: Jidmah


The main reason they "missed" their deadline on the first Big FAQ was because the dev team went to spectate adepticon and realized how bad it was and that their FAQ did next to nothing to help with that.
People attending the event were talking about how shocked some of the devs were about some tactics used commonly throughout the event, with the biggest offenders being hive tyrant spam.

In any case, I was poking fun at the online community in general which loses its gak whenever GW doesn't release something at the earliest time possible, not just limited to the march FAQ or orktober.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/09 20:00:26


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Right but they probably should have said this was their intention beforehand so as not to mislead their consumers?

Or release the first FAQ that didn't address issues from Adepticon and follow it up with another. Its not about the 'earliest time possible', it's about them sticking to their own suggested deadlines.

Orktober was a marketing shambles but it seems GW have learnt from their cock ups - the daemon engine was a stroke of genius, as are the sisters bulletins. Hopefully that level of communication continues for future updates.

I think the key for GW is to release things for as many factions as possible and not just stick to Imperium and Chaos. I get that they're the main antagonists for GW but theyre not for the players of the other factions. Even little things, a new HQ model here, a new kill team squad (with new models) there. Anything helps. Obviously many of us are probably hoping for a new Ghazzy model now Abby has been updated. They are of very similar age.

Regardless this is largely off topic outside of figuring out what to do before the Big FAQ drops. Do we wait? Do we hope for updates? Do we expect no changes that help us particularly and plod on as is?

Is out most competitive list still the Loota bomb? I'm not sure.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/09 20:04:02


Post by: The Shrike


How are people getting top profile Bonebreakas into close combat? I was running 2-3 as Evil Sunz and inevitably 1-2 would die on the way, while the other(s) would be able to charge after dumping their cargo on their bottom profile which is awful. The last two games I gave up, saved the points and ran them as basic Battlewagons. What gives?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/09 21:00:50


Post by: Grimskul


 The Shrike wrote:
How are people getting top profile Bonebreakas into close combat? I was running 2-3 as Evil Sunz and inevitably 1-2 would die on the way, while the other(s) would be able to charge after dumping their cargo on their bottom profile which is awful. The last two games I gave up, saved the points and ran them as basic Battlewagons. What gives?


I've noticed this issue as well, and I think the build really banks on you going first and having a deffkilla wartrike to ensure some potential T1 charges actually stick. It even be worth investing in using the 2CP +1 cover stratagem for going second if you don't have complete coverage with a KFF for whatever reason, since you want to make the most of the D6 extra attacks on the charge. I usually play 1500 point games which makes it hard to saturate the field anymore than I already do with the 3 battlewagons.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/09 21:15:58


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Tellyporta stratagem gents? Can't be denied, guaranteed to be in combat T2 if you run ES.

I am starting to wonder if we should be building mass Deep Strikes and T1 pressure to be honest. T1 chaff clearing pressure, bikes, Da Jumped Boyz etc. T2 drop the heavier hitters in like the Bonebreakas and another squad of Boyz to ensure they don't get surrounded.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/09 22:39:43


Post by: The Shrike


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Tellyporta stratagem gents? Can't be denied, guaranteed to be in combat T2 if you run ES.

I am starting to wonder if we should be building mass Deep Strikes and T1 pressure to be honest. T1 chaff clearing pressure, bikes, Da Jumped Boyz etc. T2 drop the heavier hitters in like the Bonebreakas and another squad of Boyz to ensure they don't get surrounded.


At 2k I’ve been running a Tellyporta-d Gorkanaut, Da Jump’d Skarboyz and 3 battle wagons with nobz or manz. But I’ve only just learned that you can tellyporta multiple times since it’s in deployment. So I’m going to try doing that and see. Ofc it means blowing most of my CP before the game starts but at least I’m close.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/09 22:48:10


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 The Shrike wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Tellyporta stratagem gents? Can't be denied, guaranteed to be in combat T2 if you run ES.

I am starting to wonder if we should be building mass Deep Strikes and T1 pressure to be honest. T1 chaff clearing pressure, bikes, Da Jumped Boyz etc. T2 drop the heavier hitters in like the Bonebreakas and another squad of Boyz to ensure they don't get surrounded.


At 2k I’ve been running a Tellyporta-d Gorkanaut, Da Jump’d Skarboyz and 3 battle wagons with nobz or manz. But I’ve only just learned that you can tellyporta multiple times since it’s in deployment. So I’m going to try doing that and see. Ofc it means blowing most of my CP before the game starts but at least I’m close.

Exactly, just make sure you're not leaving yourself open to a possible tabling turn 1. Hide those Boyz and Grot units if you have them outside of LOS.

As an aside I wouldn't bother putting MANZ in a transport. They're the only unit that can't loot them, keep Nobz and Flash Gits in them instead. Perhaps even Boyz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/10 09:32:45


Post by: ManTube


I ran a deepstrike-committed list against fairly competitive tau. Lost but did ok, and my opponent was a much better player than I was, used to tournament play and smart with screening/chaining greater good and tau auras.

Tau list was (from memory):
Spoiler:

2 riptides
30 firewarriors in 6 squads of 5
2 commanders
A special ethereal character with an aura
Another foot character with no suit with a bonus to shooting aura
2 squads pathfinders
2 squads shield drones
Some other special drones
1 deepstriking suit with lots of fusion and penalties to hit
1 stealth suit team


I played something like:
Spoiler:

2 gorkanauts in deepstrike. Each with 5 man tankbustas inside
Squad of 2 deff dreads, 3 saws and skorcha each
3 squads 10 grots
2 squads 30 boyz and 2 squads 10 boyz
2 weird boyz, warpath and da jump
1 footboss with killa klaw and +1 CP warlord trait
1 foot mek with KFF
All as evil sunz


Game summary:
Spoiler:

So 50% of this list on the nose teleports in t2. The rest of the boyz cower way in the corner surrounded by grots and kff sheltered for turn 2 when dreads drop in. Mob up one 10 boy squad with a 30 boy squad and jump them in with.

Didnt go first, but weathered tau shooting well enough. I should have da jumped up a squad here to try and clear firewarriors but was scared of trying to soak the overwatch. He was running tau sept so overwatch on 5+ and everything was withing 6 inches for greater good triggers so I felt they would have been blown away. So I hid like a grot and did little in response, biding time for turn 2 assault. Hide as best as I can out of LOS

T2 for him. I weather more shooting. Have maybe half my boyz left and no grotz.

T2 for me I teleporta I deep strike in and mob up+da jump boyz up. My deff dread dies in overwacth from fusion stealth suit. Other doesnt make its charge. I use ramming speed on a gork. My other Gork fails a charge and the da jumped boyz also charge in. All I kill are firewarriors screens. Rough turn. Ive done nothing with t1 and my t2 beta strike has failed due to smart screening and deadly tau overwatch. Both gorks took nasty overwatch wounds

His t3, he kills a Gork, but unluckily for him the gork explodes in the middle of his lines! We were playing modifed ITC missions and I picked up headhunter just from this as the mortal wounds wiped several of his well screened characters. Both riptides take a beating too. Other deff dread is killed by stealth suit. More boyz are slaughtered.

My t3, my surviving gork is healed by big Mek but still stays in bottom profile. It lets out its tankbustas. Some wounds are dealt, my characters charge out, trying to get objectives. I da jump one weirdboy with the other to get a smite off on his riptide, finishing one off. My klaw boss charges the other and kills it. Boys rush for objectives, tankbustas fire ineffectively. Gork kills more firewarriors bc of lack of targets

His t4 he kills gork, klaw boss and 1 weirdboy, as well as half the tankbustas and the rest of the boyz. I have a big Mek a weird boy and 5 tankbustas and hes ahead by just enough on points with few scoring options for me so we call it.


Closing thoughts, I had a rough go with my charge luck, failing 3 out of 5 evil suns charges and one charging dread dying in overwatch. Threw away my first turn bc I had basically no firepower and was relying on a beta strike. Effective opponent screening neutralized all my successful charges. Honestly, the gorkanaut exploding was the one thing that kept me relevant for another turn, basically dealing d6 mortal wounds to his entire army with how closely packed for auras they were. I wish we had a garunteed explosion stratagem like admech...

Putting the tankbustas in the gorks was pointless. The idea was to keep them off the board and not have to pay for trukks to keep them survivable but waiting till t3 to use them made them worthless. Also, tau suits dont have the vehicle keyword so they got no rerolls.

Admittedly, this tau list was a rough go for orks. My opponent had very good screening discipline and left nothing uncovered. The overwatch was brutal. But I feel if you are going to try a teleporta beta-strike focused list, you need strong cp (I ran a double battalion and extra cp trait to afford it) and the non teleporta parts of the list would need to be very focused on screen clearence. Anything that is riding in a teleporting transport better be a shooting unit in an open topped vehicle, because as 8th currently stands in this edition, the game really happens in turn 1 and 2 and turn 3 may as well be endgame. Having a unit that has to wait until turn 3 to do anything is a waste of points. I plan on editing the list to be more like 2 gorkanauts teleporting in, with one shoota boy unit to da jump up and shoot+charge, with the rest of the list being shooting focused.




No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/10 11:08:07


Post by: Jidmah


Deep striking done breakers is kind of wasting points. You can't disembark their passengers, so a Gorkanaut will almost always be a better choice. Plus even with evil suns culture and ramming speed a charge is by no means guaranteed, failing one or two charges is not unlikely and will be crippling for your game.

In my games the best way to protect my bone breakers was to get some dakkajets in my opponent's face and jump a unit of boyz turn 1 to threaten something valuable. KFFs will increase the effort needed to kill a wagon, but they won't actually protect one - especially since it does nothing against mortal wounds and RoF weapons which always plonk away at least a third of my wagon's wounds.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/10 13:47:59


Post by: Emicrania


Guys, do you play ever TTS? if so, is it a reliable way to test lists?
Also please contact me if you wanna play, I´m new to TTS but it looks like a fun way to play faster with long distance friends


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/10 14:20:48


Post by: flandarz


I use TTS. If you got some pals, it's a nice way to try out lists before spending hundreds of dollars on models and whatnot. Especially for us Orkz, since we're one of the more model-heavy armies.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 07:20:29


Post by: JawRippa


 Emicrania wrote:
Guys, do you play ever TTS? if so, is it a reliable way to test lists?
Also please contact me if you wanna play, I´m new to TTS but it looks like a fun way to play faster with long distance friends

Yea, TTS is a really solid way to test stuff. Only thing that it may have problems with is terrain and model hitbox collision. Iti s a shame that there are mostly DoW1 models for orks in the workshop though, DoWII are way better in my opinion.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 08:39:15


Post by: big mek crazygit


 JawRippa wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
Guys, do you play ever TTS? if so, is it a reliable way to test lists?
Also please contact me if you wanna play, I´m new to TTS but it looks like a fun way to play faster with long distance friends

Yea, TTS is a really solid way to test stuff. Only thing that it may have problems with is terrain and model hitbox collision. Iti s a shame that there are mostly DoW1 models for orks in the workshop though, DoWII are way better in my opinion.


I actually got a stash of Orks that are based off of the DoW 2 models if that tickles your fancy. Just search for Ork stash in the workshop.

But yeah, I'd say TTS is a great tool in general to play games with. It might be a bit tedious to start with, but once you know the keybinds, it's smooth sailing.

It does help if the models have some good collission boxes too though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 15:07:13


Post by: G00fySmiley


On the bone breaker..

wartrike is needed, zip up, advance, and try to get a turn 1 charge.

being able to redeploy with kunnin but brutal is also super good option. put em on one side, opponent places anti tank guns in range on where they are at, then redeploy 2-4 units out of line of fire.

if going second use that all units in cover strat, or if there is enough terrain just keep em partially out of line of site.

having a blasta jet or gorkanaught with kff makes you ~1/3 more survivable (not to mortal wounds hence ~1/3 and not actually that high). index big mek on bike with kff is also viable for this and can keep up.

Another issue I find with a lot of bone breaker lists is split lists.

I am finding as with past editions the strongest of my lists concentrate on one thing. Either run all vehicle so the anti infantry guns are mostly useless, or run almsot all infantry so the anti tank guns are wasted. Most of out units have a xenos tax and cost more than they should.

3 bone breaker wagons with hard hitters inside, mass buggies (the good ones like kbb, srap jet and shokk jump) a gorkanaught, and some p[lanes can be very effective.

Alternatively groups of 30 boys with 3 rokkits and nob with pk x however many points you have with a few ubnits of 10 gretchin and filling hq slots with warbosses for waagh, wierdboys for da jump and a nob banner or 2 sprinkled in for good measure.

in either list though you need big mek guns because they are just that good.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 15:31:23


Post by: The Shrike


I’m going to try bringing one Bone Breaka as Evil Sunz; grant it Ere We Go with Blitz Brigade, Deffkilla Wartrike allowing it to charge, use the 3D6 charge stratagem to get it in, all while using Hold On Ladz to drag 30 Boyz along with it, then Da Jump 30 more. Then I’ll bring a Gorkanaut with Tellyporta and another Battwagon behind with more Nobz or MANZ and see how that goes.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 15:59:38


Post by: mhalko1


how often does everyone fight Guilleman lists? I was playing around with a way to kill him quick using 15 deathskull tankbustas kitted with 3 tank hammers rushing at him. Didn't know how effective or likely they would be at killing him. You get 1 reroll to hit, wound and damage reroll to try and deal out 9 mortal wounds to him.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 16:21:20


Post by: tneva82


Would need to be very lucky for opponent to allow charging him. Getting into grenade range for 10 grenades is hard. Getting close combat is even harder

And you average bit less than 6 mortal wounds so...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 16:58:22


Post by: Jidmah


Use all those tank bustas to feth up those units he is buffing. On average those tank bustas will not deal more damage to him than a unit of shoota boyz.
Gulliman is a force multiplier first and foremost, unlike the other primarchs, he will not destroy anything he touches. Take away his army and he is just a guy with a fancy power fist.

Should he leave Gulliman exposed enough to charge, drown him in boyz. He will take multiple turns to grind through them, which might be enough to swing the game in your favor, as 400 points of Ultramarine are doing jack.
His T6/2+/3++ is insanely durable against everything we can throw at him except smites. You should also always expect him to get up again with 3-4 wounds, otherwise you will have wasted your resources and Gulliman will remain at 100% efficiency, even if he has just 1 wound left.

TL;DR: Ignore or tarpit, kill everything else. Ultramarines are not that hard to kill.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 17:36:20


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


Noob Ork question. Is it better to run 6x10 units of Orks 3x each of Slugga/Choppa combo or Shoota? Or go for less number of bigger units and then some grots to fill up the required troops slots in a battalion? I’ll be playing as Goffs usually against either tau, UM or DG


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 17:53:48


Post by: flandarz


Boyz benefit most from being in groups of 30. 1 Boss Nob, 19xChoppas, and 10xShootas in pretty optimal. If you take MSUs with Boyz, you're just giving away an extra attack. If you're playing Goffs, consider spending the 1 CP per Blob to make them Skarboys.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 17:54:35


Post by: G00fySmiley


No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Noob Ork question. Is it better to run 6x10 units of Orks 3x each of Slugga/Choppa combo or Shoota? Or go for less number of bigger units and then some grots to fill up the required troops slots in a battalion? I’ll be playing as Goffs usually against either tau, UM or DG


so... that depends on the points level.

if low points then that big unit of orks is going to be all the movement you have and objectives will be rough to grab, but in smaller units you can grab things... but with low leadership you are more likely to fail morale tests. if all you hae are 60 boys and an hq then its easy to shoot 2 targets but they are not going to run.

It also depends on the rest of your units, but if I were to only have 60 boysz in a list i would probably do 3x20


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 17:57:07


Post by: mhalko1


No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Noob Ork question. Is it better to run 6x10 units of Orks 3x each of Slugga/Choppa combo or Shoota? Or go for less number of bigger units and then some grots to fill up the required troops slots in a battalion? I’ll be playing as Goffs usually against either tau, UM or DG


The grots help with filling cheap battalions HQ'd by shokk attack guns and weirdboys


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 18:35:09


Post by: tneva82


Ordered some scrapjets and dragstas so looking at making fast army list for change of pace.

Battallion:deathskull

bik mek w&sag
weirdboy

3x10 gretchin
3xmegatrakk scrapjet
3xshokkjump dragsta
7xtank busta
trukk

battallion> evil sun

deffkilla wartrike
warboss> da killa klaw, brutal but kunning

30xboyz w&10 shootas, big choppa
2x10 grots
nob w&waagh banner
10xnobs(1 power klaw and choppa, 4 big choppa and choppa, 5xtwin choppa)

bonebreaker


So. 6 buggies are tag teaming swarming with average 18 rokkits and 3 plasma weapons. If there\s something like ig infantry squad nearby charges possible as well if there\s enough left. Nobs, banner and warboss head with bonebreaka, tankbustas trying to hit targets(likely supporting the buggies to give maximum anti tank firepower). Boyz da jumped forward as well. Turn 1 max pressure. Hoping to use terrain to limit AT firepower vs buggies.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 19:02:24


Post by: TedNugent


I'm surprised there has been so few lists that actually involve skarboys.

A little bit of math showed it was trivial to cram 120 in a batallion at 1000 points.

Provided you held the CP you could even call in the boys; or use a deep strike stratege or a weirdboy to launch units into the opponents DZ.

I am also not seeing literally any of the winning tournament lists using transports of any variety. Trukks seem utterly useless except as gun platforms, bonebreakas are expensive, battlewagons expensive and I don't know if they have the output or utility to justify the cost.

Most lists are spamming foot units and using deep strike-esque shenanigans rather than paying transport tax - am I mistaking this or overlooking a competitive list build that is making 3-3 or better at LVO or a similar GT style format?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 19:22:52


Post by: tneva82


 TedNugent wrote:
I'm surprised there has been so few lists that actually involve skarboys.

A little bit of math showed it was trivial to cram 120 in a batallion at 1000 points.

Provided you held the CP you could even call in the boys; or use a deep strike stratege or a weirdboy to launch units into the opponents DZ.

I am also not seeing literally any of the winning tournament lists using transports of any variety. Trukks seem utterly useless except as gun platforms, bonebreakas are expensive, battlewagons expensive and I don't know if they have the output or utility to justify the cost.

Most lists are spamming foot units and using deep strike-esque shenanigans rather than paying transport tax - am I mistaking this or overlooking a competitive list build that is making 3-3 or better at LVO or a similar GT style format?


Issues are: 4 CP for 120 skarboyz. Expensive. Then there's no reliable delivery method. Come on foot you get shot blown for your T3 charge. Come by deep strike and you are aiming for 58% charges and if you fail you are pretty much screwed. And 4 units of skarboyz in deep strike are whopping 12 CP...And you need very good chaff clearing for rest of your ~1000 pts to ensure you can actually land into useful things.

Also 30 evil suns will basically kill most targets ANYWAY. There's not many things that you really, really, REALLY need that S5 that 120 S4 attacks don't clear already. Trouble with boyz isn't exactly raw killing power. Knights are one good target but you don't need tons of units for that anyway and more efficient chaff clearing could easily be better anyway. Saves CP, clears chaff more efficiently for your ~2 skarboyz units to clear. For chaff clearing I would use either evil suns(8" charges) or bad moons(30 shootas shoot at one unit and then try to charge other). Both good candinates for T1 da jump. Skarboyz you will be running into chaff and what on earth is chaff that needs 120 S5 attacks to clear? Plaguebearers from hell is about only chaff I can think of where skarboyz might actually make sense as chaff clearing.

Sort of 2 skarboyz isn't 2xone unit, 3 isn't 3x as good as 1 unit etc. Diminishing returns. 2 units would be plenty for me. Then some other clans to clear chaff.

For transport orks suffer from not having good candinates for insides. Nobs, meganobs and tank bustas(losing strategems) are about only ones. Boyz are voewfully lacking as you want over 20 strong units for that +1 attacks(yes 20 gives you that but even overwatch is likely to drop 1 ork...)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 20:00:03


Post by: Vineheart01


thats kinda the issue with Goff, orks dont really need that trait except against things we cant really beat even with it.

It doesnt help their shooting, it doesnt make them faster, and it doesnt make them harder to kill. It just makes them stronger in an area they usually dont need to be stronger for if played smartly.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 20:18:26


Post by: tneva82


One issue where it does shine though is T8 3+ type of stuff where it makes unit more than 2x as killy as say evil sun. Knight that's been weakened will seriously worry and something like leman russ will generally melt from the charge.

But spamming them? Nah that's not that effective even if you can justify one or two units. But lack of reliable delivery method hurts. 58% is not reliable.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 20:38:48


Post by: An Actual Englishman


I think a Trukk full of Nobz or Flash Gits is possibly worth considering. They can at least loot the thing when it explodes and it offers a pretense of protection from small arms fire. Where Da Jump exists and under the current disembarking rules transports don't really serve a purpose, unfortunately. Like most of our units they are between 15% and 25% overpriced.

Skarboyz are too CP hungry and offer too little to be worthwhile, as already mentioned.

With regards Boyz numbers, I think the optimum number is 2 x 30 and 2 x 10. Mob up and 40 jumping in turn 1 and 2 is no joke. I cut the second batch of 10 personally but it's a preference thing.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 20:45:37


Post by: tneva82


Mobbing up you lose chance to bring them back though. Albeit not issue if you know you don't have 3CP but can be pretty nasty and demoralizing for opponent when he nearly gets unit dead and then it comes back right away!

(last came by turn 3 opponent somehow had managed to only kill few mek guns and grots for good. Bit of bad luck and when he nearly got 1 boyz unit dead they simply came back.)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 21:20:05


Post by: An Actual Englishman


tneva82 wrote:
Mobbing up you lose chance to bring them back though. Albeit not issue if you know you don't have 3CP but can be pretty nasty and demoralizing for opponent when he nearly gets unit dead and then it comes back right away!

(last came by turn 3 opponent somehow had managed to only kill few mek guns and grots for good. Bit of bad luck and when he nearly got 1 boyz unit dead they simply came back.)

This is true and also a reason I only take 1 x 10 Boyz. If the enemy targets my 30 strong squad and doesn't wipe them to the man I'll be Green Tiding them right in with the other squad of 40 on T1.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 21:29:22


Post by: tneva82


One candinate only runs into same issue though. One unit getting wiped out isn't that hard. 2 is much harder. With 2 units odds of at least one surviving at least partially increases a lot.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 21:38:45


Post by: flandarz


I think Flash Gitz in a Trukk with Freeboota Kultur could be a really potent thing. As long as you can proc the +1, you can move em around and still hit on 4s.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 22:05:17


Post by: Jidmah


You could do the very same thing with a battlewagon which offers better protection and can have a meaningful impact by itself.

IMO the only viable way to take trukks is when you are deff skulls and there is a rokkit inside and one on the trukk.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/11 23:02:08


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


 flandarz wrote:
Boyz benefit most from being in groups of 30. 1 Boss Nob, 19xChoppas, and 10xShootas in pretty optimal. If you take MSUs with Boyz, you're just giving away an extra attack. If you're playing Goffs, consider spending the 1 CP per Blob to make them Skarboys.


Didn’t realise they could mix and match weapons in the squad?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 01:07:05


Post by: Grimskul


No wolves on Fenris wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
Boyz benefit most from being in groups of 30. 1 Boss Nob, 19xChoppas, and 10xShootas in pretty optimal. If you take MSUs with Boyz, you're just giving away an extra attack. If you're playing Goffs, consider spending the 1 CP per Blob to make them Skarboys.


Didn’t realise they could mix and match weapons in the squad?


Yup, unlike previous editions, you can choose what gear each boy has, which is useful for giving them a little more flexibility in big mobs, since you're not likely to have all 30 survive and be in range for combat in most cases so having some shootas in the back gives you more options.

Also, regarding Skarboyz, I think it depends on your local meta, since S5 is at an important strength threshold in being able to wound T8 models on 5's. If you're against mainly Aeldari where T3 means you don't really get a benefit and at best you're getting to wound their venoms/skyweavers on 4's, then yeah it's not worth it. Against T4 armies I think wounding on 3's is ultimately worth it, which is mainly MEQ's. GEQ's with access to T8 like Guardsmen is another niche example where they can pay for their points.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 01:22:48


Post by: Vineheart01


i pretty much can never justify a trukk. I really wish it either had Spiked Ram (which its MODELED WITH) or the wrecking ball wasnt a single attack.
I love that the battlewagons are a threat in their own right. Now a trukk shouldnt be at the same level of deadly but atleast capable of hurting something other than grots would be nice.
Since you cant launch the occupants anymore i dont see a point in them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 01:50:38


Post by: Grimskul


 Vineheart01 wrote:
i pretty much can never justify a trukk. I really wish it either had Spiked Ram (which its MODELED WITH) or the wrecking ball wasnt a single attack.
I love that the battlewagons are a threat in their own right. Now a trukk shouldnt be at the same level of deadly but atleast capable of hurting something other than grots would be nice.
Since you cant launch the occupants anymore i dont see a point in them.


Yeah, unfortunately it's relegated to being a relatively inferior mobile gunboat for tankbustas and deffskull boyz. I think the lack of options from transitioning over to the new edition has really hurt its viability, since resilience was never a thing that trukks were bought for. It was cheapness and since GW is adamant in keeping transport costs up, it has the main issue of not having enough damage output shooting wise to play a role once its cargo has been deployed, nor enough cargo space to carry anything meaningful besides 1 or 2 units. If anything, they should make their CC stats closer to the speed freeks vehicles they've released recently, hitting on 4's in CC with the wrecking ball or spiked ram as their mode of damage.

Also, I think you're referring to the grabbin klaw rather than the wreckin ball? the Wreckin ball at least gives you 3 attacks, its the grabbin klaw that forces you to only have one attack with it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 02:36:51


Post by: flandarz


Trukks aren't that great, for sure. But they're under half the cost of the BB and BW, which allows you to field more things. I think whether or not you'll find a use for it will depend on the kind of list you're building.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 03:27:23


Post by: Vineheart01


Ah, yeah i got the two mixed up.
Still, only hits on 5s with 3 attacks. I guess it technically hits hard since it makes it S8 AP-1 2D (assuming it isnt degraded of course).

Its the one thing i love about the battlewagon atm. Even the nonbonebreaka still can deliver a punch on its own merit. One thing im slowly working towards is getting all 5 of my wagons built and trying to use them all lol (3wagons 2 bonebreakas)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 04:13:15


Post by: tneva82


 Grimskul wrote:
No wolves on Fenris wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
Boyz benefit most from being in groups of 30. 1 Boss Nob, 19xChoppas, and 10xShootas in pretty optimal. If you take MSUs with Boyz, you're just giving away an extra attack. If you're playing Goffs, consider spending the 1 CP per Blob to make them Skarboys.


Didn’t realise they could mix and match weapons in the squad?


Yup, unlike previous editions, you can choose what gear each boy has, which is useful for giving them a little more flexibility in big mobs, since you're not likely to have all 30 survive and be in range for combat in most cases so having some shootas in the back gives you more options.

Also, regarding Skarboyz, I think it depends on your local meta, since S5 is at an important strength threshold in being able to wound T8 models on 5's. If you're against mainly Aeldari where T3 means you don't really get a benefit and at best you're getting to wound their venoms/skyweavers on 4's, then yeah it's not worth it. Against T4 armies I think wounding on 3's is ultimately worth it, which is mainly MEQ's. GEQ's with access to T8 like Guardsmen is another niche example where they can pay for their points.


Against many t4 armies though s4 is still aplenty. 30 will one shot 10 tactical marines/5 primaris and generally marines play msu...seen much 10 strong primaris squads?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 07:58:25


Post by: Moriarty


I can understand why trukks are problematic. In my area the shop tables are 4’ x 4’, which means if you try and use trukks to concentrate on one end of the opponents’ line, they can still shoot the things from the other end of the table given the weapon ranges. Blocking terrain can mitigate to some extent, but my experience is they are useful as mobile bunkers and prospective ‘loot it’ sources rather than for tactical mobility.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 11:01:28


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 flandarz wrote:
Trukks aren't that great, for sure. But they're under half the cost of the BB and BW, which allows you to field more things. I think whether or not you'll find a use for it will depend on the kind of list you're building.


I like MSU Flash gitz and Tanksbustas in Trukks a lot. They work for me. Altough at the moment I prefer the Chinork for the busta's since it makes them so incredible fast.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 11:54:39


Post by: G00fySmiley


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think a Trukk full of Nobz or Flash Gits is possibly worth considering. They can at least loot the thing when it explodes and it offers a pretense of protection from small arms fire. Where Da Jump exists and under the current disembarking rules transports don't really serve a purpose, unfortunately. Like most of our units they are between 15% and 25% overpriced.

Skarboyz are too CP hungry and offer too little to be worthwhile, as already mentioned.

With regards Boyz numbers, I think the optimum number is 2 x 30 and 2 x 10. Mob up and 40 jumping in turn 1 and 2 is no joke. I cut the second batch of 10 personally but it's a preference thing.


while it is not going to win you tournaments I highly recommend doing this to a friend at least once. I usually pull it out of my back pocket if I have not yet played somebody with my orks yet (though probably would not do it against a new player or stranger) the look on thier face as you mob up then cast the jump then the realization that those 40 boys put on the back field are now an immediate problem is priceless.

on the trukk vs battlewagon debate... has anybody had a trukk survive past turn 2 this edition ... show of hands *looks around the classroom*

personally I own 4 trukks and several looted wagons for counts as trukks, they just get wiped off the table vs everything i play against. though to be fair in my meta there are several knights players and most people use take all comers lists, so vs trukk spam they have plenty of anti tank. in battlewagosn with trukks they usually still get tyargeted first because they have the good stuff like tank bustas or meganobz


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 12:32:25


Post by: tneva82


 G00fySmiley wrote:
while it is not going to win you tournaments I highly recommend doing this to a friend at least once. I usually pull it out of my back pocket if I have not yet played somebody with my orks yet (though probably would not do it against a new player or stranger) the look on thier face as you mob up then cast the jump then the realization that those 40 boys put on the back field are now an immediate problem is priceless.


I have done that. Several times. Generally they shrug, take off the chaff as casualties and then blow the 40 strong unit to either dead or crippled. It's actually the 30 strong unit that worries more. 13 orks left from 40 isn't that much of a worry anymore. 3 left from 30 have this possibility of becoming 30 right away.

And waiting for turn 2-3 with your 40 orks sitting at backfield is a) lots of points not used b) vulnerable for shooting.


on the trukk vs battlewagon debate... has anybody had a trukk survive past turn 2 this edition ... show of hands *looks around the classroom*


Depends if they get to unload the unit in time. If yes sometimes yes mostly on the principle they are too insignificant to shoot before say mek gun.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 13:32:53


Post by: Emicrania


My trukk with tankabusta always survive at. Least 3T. I guess is because of Target saturation.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 13:44:38


Post by: Jidmah


tneva82 wrote:

on the trukk vs battlewagon debate... has anybody had a trukk survive past turn 2 this edition ... show of hands *looks around the classroom*


Depends if they get to unload the unit in time. If yes sometimes yes mostly on the principle they are too insignificant to shoot before say mek gun.


Same here. Trukk has boyz or empty? It will live for the whole game. If there is anything valuable inside it will die.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 15:21:26


Post by: Vineheart01


trukk with generic boyz inside would actually be wonderful to get shot at that early.

Also depends on what else you have. If you pretty much have nothing other than footboyz jumping around and mek gunz support, anything that isnt beyond 24" reach is going to pummel that trukk hard because why would they shoot plasma at a boy if they got a trukk to shoot at?

Trukk shouldnt die in 1 turn unless you stuff it with tankbustas/manz. Its pretty hard for orks to not field something T6+ with a lot of wounds right now, and the trukk is easily the weakest of that kind of unit.

Kinda wonder if trukkboyz would be viable if we could take up to 3 heavy weapons per unit of boyz, not 1 heavy per 10 boyz. 10 boyz w/ 3 rokkits in a trukk would be dope.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 16:29:30


Post by: mhalko1


 G00fySmiley wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think a Trukk full of Nobz or Flash Gits is possibly worth considering. They can at least loot the thing when it explodes and it offers a pretense of protection from small arms fire. Where Da Jump exists and under the current disembarking rules transports don't really serve a purpose, unfortunately. Like most of our units they are between 15% and 25% overpriced.

Skarboyz are too CP hungry and offer too little to be worthwhile, as already mentioned.

With regards Boyz numbers, I think the optimum number is 2 x 30 and 2 x 10. Mob up and 40 jumping in turn 1 and 2 is no joke. I cut the second batch of 10 personally but it's a preference thing.


while it is not going to win you tournaments I highly recommend doing this to a friend at least once. I usually pull it out of my back pocket if I have not yet played somebody with my orks yet (though probably would not do it against a new player or stranger) the look on thier face as you mob up then cast the jump then the realization that those 40 boys put on the back field are now an immediate problem is priceless.

on the trukk vs battlewagon debate... has anybody had a trukk survive past turn 2 this edition ... show of hands *looks around the classroom*

personally I own 4 trukks and several looted wagons for counts as trukks, they just get wiped off the table vs everything i play against. though to be fair in my meta there are several knights players and most people use take all comers lists, so vs trukk spam they have plenty of anti tank. in battlewagosn with trukks they usually still get tyargeted first because they have the good stuff like tank bustas or meganobz


I have, against a nid player. I lined it up right next to 60 boys and in front of his gaunts with guns. They had to choose to shoot it or the boys. Guess which he chose?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 17:38:03


Post by: An Actual Englishman


tneva82 wrote:

I have done that. Several times. Generally they shrug, take off the chaff as casualties and then blow the 40 strong unit to either dead or crippled. It's actually the 30 strong unit that worries more. 13 orks left from 40 isn't that much of a worry anymore. 3 left from 30 have this possibility of becoming 30 right away.

And waiting for turn 2-3 with your 40 orks sitting at backfield is a) lots of points not used b) vulnerable for shooting.

Why are you waiting to turn 2 or 3? They are Da Jumped up.

The thing with green tide is that it can only be used once per game so there is redundancy. 40 Boyz is better than 30, they take longer to degrade in terms of attacks and they hit harder. They also benefit better from Loot it and fight twice stratagems. They can also cover more board and grab more units in cc. Probably one of their best benefits is that they are a cheaper way of filling battalions, rather than taking 28-30 every time.

Trucks are good for soaking overwatch maybe perhaps possibly?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 18:20:09


Post by: PiñaColada


If you've ever faced deathwatch and their anti-charge ork stratagem then a trukk comes in real handy to soak up overwatch. Obviously anything that's a single model and somehwat durable will do, but them degrading a trukk is insignificant.

Other than that, and a niche case when you can MW a wounded character to death with ramming speed, trukks are not doing so hot IMO. Trukkbustas are alright, same with nobz but if I know that I'm facing tougher lists then the trukk stays home more often than not.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 20:59:41


Post by: tneva82


Another week, another game. I'm rolling. This time was against new player(this was either his 2nd game of 8th ed or 2nd game 40k period) with iron hands this time(first game he was trying raven guard. He's trying out different traits). We had agreed on casual lists 1500 pts. Hopefully I had casual enough! Though as it turns out my list was pretty much meaningless...

Death skull battalion. SAG, weirdboy, 30 boyz, 13 grots, 10 grots, 10 tank bustas, shokjump dragsta. Goff battallion, warboss w/killa klaw, weirdboy, 30 skarboyz, 2x10 grots, 5 meganobz(2 killa saw dudes, 2 combi flamers). traktor kannon, KMK, smasha gun.

He had 2 lietnaunts, captain, 3x5 basic primaris marines, 8 plasma primaris, 3 jump pack assault heavy bolter marines, 2 primaris dreadnought(one of both types), regular dreadnought, predator.

We played same scenario I got last time so select 2 objectives, get 2 for each you score. I deployed and went first. I put just meganobs to deep strike to even it out further especially when I went first.

Ork T1: Tank bustas were jumped forward to reach plasma primaris dreadnought. Wrecker used but was wasted strategem as I rolled so good(only 1 to wound failed and that would have been rerolled by being deathskull anyway) that the dreadnought blew right away. This left shockjump reach only primaris marine that was front of plasma guys(that were behind ruins) ensuring no T1 da jump charge vs plasma guys as I had suggested him do. Forgot SAG, mek guns caused some wounds but not much.

Marine 1: Plasma guys moved to ruins and blew out tankbustas. He concentrated fire toward goffs(whose warboss I had forgotten to move btw) and stopped when he had done either 12 or 14 dead following tip I had given him pre-game. Spare player/overall organizer had warned him to finish off units to ensure they don't come back. I pointed out if they are over half strenght I can't do that so if he can't finish stop shooting around 16-19 left(which also drops attacks). Well that's precisely what he did. And also took out KMK.

Ork 2. Meganobz deep striked behind lines, charged and killed gatling primaris dreadnought that had been softened by shooting. Weirdboy da jumped deathskull boys to my right to help goffs. This left plasma guys safe but a) I figured I didn't need to kill them neccessary and just win on objectives b) this gave him more of fighting chance anyway. In shooting I put predator into 2nd bracket and hurt the primaris dreadnought before it died(to exact wounds) vs meganobs. Shokkjump charged vs basic squad figuring if I'm out of combat I get shot down and let's get 10 S4 -1 shots out of action.

Marine 2: Basically game ended here. Literally. He got soooooo crappy cards unbelievable. Domination. Nope. Impossible in effect. Defend objectives deep in my side? Yep not happening. I said him "ah you didn't discard full 6 right before game? Redraw domination". No help. I even came up house rule on the spot that he can always discard one at the end of turn and get new one. This didn't help turns 2 and 3 so basically he was totally vp locked here...I could have basically just sit my units at the center and say "pass turn" and automatically win...

So this came lesson for teaching him capabilities of our respective armies as game was 100% won. I would need to actively try to give him win to lose this game...

He brought in deep strikers hamstrung with my chaff around. He took out entire goff mob this time. Bit scary at the end when he was contemplating what to do with plasma guys and split 3 into last nob. Only got 1 hit so needing 2+ with reroll to kill he rolled 1 but didn't fail reroll. That would have been big...Survive and that's 30 goffs back on field.

Rest of plasma's, predator and dreadnought shot 4 of meganobz.

Ork 3: Should have retreated with shokkump as more targets arrived for plasmas. Specifically warlord was da jumped and charged regular dread, killed and tagged predator in combat. Meganob with 1 wound left charged and killed lietnaunt(if I had been evil I would have charged lietnaunt as well as the 3 jump pack dudes with deathskulls first to prevent lucky overrwatch killing last wound meganob but hey with game won already was feeling gracious). Jump packers were charged and killed by deathskulls. Didn't even consolidiate into the basic marines.

Marine 3: He blew out warlord with plasma marines. He only got few into range due to shokkjump being closer for rest but it was enough. Rest blew out the shokkjump no problemo.

Rest of game. I had been scoring 4-5 cards per turn so was racking up tons of points and would have ran out of tactical cards before game had I not on turn 5 ran into total lockage as shooting was reduced(especially as I always forgot SAG) and couldn't finish warlord either nor predator out of sight. He got finally "charge enemy units" and "cause wound to character with character" cards that I had basically donated to him just trying to kill something for fun even if it means sure death for my weirdboys. In the end I won 18-7(having 2 minus points for having 8 cards at hand) when we called it. Without my imprompt house rule it would have been 18-4(2 for first 2 cards, first strike, slay the warlord).

This was basically decided by scenario and his turn 2 draws. I think I ask in future if my house rule is okay. Total freezage is annoying if it happens.

[Thumb - IMG_20190312_165602.jpg]
[Thumb - IMG_20190312_175232.jpg]


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 21:08:00


Post by: Booger ork


Has anyone here considered the possibility of a max grot list?
From spitballing I could fit in 2000 points the following
3x wierdboy
2x warboss (1 relic klaw 1 relic choppa)
12x smasha gunz
25x lootas
275x grots.

comes out to 11-13 CP depending on wierdboy upgrades


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 21:11:58


Post by: tneva82


Bit of one trick pony And not many have that many grots ;-) You would also be losing tons of grots to morale without runtherds to go around.

You have major issue with any AT firepower having easy time choosing targets. Smasha guns, smasha guns, smasha guns.

Fitting all those could be problematic...Especially in some terrains.

And heaven forbid if you run into army that can grind through those lootas. I have lost 60 grots and 15 lootas in one turn. Grot shield or not.

And with that much to cram into DZ 3 pointers are going to play havoc with you giving opponent units in close combat you can't fall back. How you plan to deal with those? Warbosses are only credible h2h threat you have...

Fun idea but won't be super competive. Too many lists that can hard counter almost by accident.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and I got also game agreed for next week. Another newbie(today was his first game of 8th ed though he has played older editions). He has blood angels. I want to try another not super optimized lists so starter rule no evil sun+bad moon loota star combo.

So 2 battallions again, evil suns and deathskulls this time.

Evil suns:
warboss w/da killa klaw and butal but kunning
wartrike

10 nobs(power klaw, 4 big choppas and then max amount of choppas)
nob W/banner

30xboyz(big choppa)
2x10 grots
bonebreaker

Deathskull:

SAG
da jump weirdboy

2x30 boyz(klaw and big choppa)
2x10 grots

10 tank busta
10 loota
shokkjump dragsta

So it has lootas but only 10 so not really loota star list. And deathskull so no twice firing. 3 units of boyz to rush into close combat, bonebreaker loaded with nobs looking at T1 combat if possible.

Hopefully not too nasty. Looking to try that bonebreaka & contents again plus shokkjump. This time it was bit of neutral. First turn main target died before it was needed and then had range issues and rest of game before dying spent tagging marine squad from shooting.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/12 21:55:51


Post by: Jidmah


Booger ork wrote:
Has anyone here considered the possibility of a max grot list?


Yes, it comes up about twice a month.
1) No one is willing to buy/build/paint that many gretchin for a gimmik. Well, almost no one.
2) For those few who actually pulled off gretchin tides report them as notorious unfun to play (and play against) or in other words "was fun to see, will not do it again".
3) The list doesn't actually do anything. While grot shield is an effective protection against shooting, there are only so many gretchin you can have within 6", plus you still lose a loota on every sixth wound. In addition to that, it doesn't protect you from mortal wounds, so psychic powers or anything that does mortal wounds on wound rolls like snipers will kill off parts of your loota star. Considering that the only other dangerous thing in your army are smasha gunz, 2000 points of shooting will be dedicated solely at them. With that one threat gone, all you have left are units which are neither good at killing stuff nor survivable - meaning you will most likely lose the mission.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 00:11:43


Post by: Grimskul


 Jidmah wrote:
Booger ork wrote:
Has anyone here considered the possibility of a max grot list?


Yes, it comes up about twice a month.
1) No one is willing to buy/build/paint that many gretchin for a gimmik. Well, almost no one.
2) For those few who actually pulled off gretchin tides report them as notorious unfun to play (and play against) or in other words "was fun to see, will not do it again".
3) The list doesn't actually do anything. While grot shield is an effective protection against shooting, there are only so many gretchin you can have within 6", plus you still lose a loota on every sixth wound. In addition to that, it doesn't protect you from mortal wounds, so psychic powers or anything that does mortal wounds on wound rolls like snipers will kill off parts of your loota star. Considering that the only other dangerous thing in your army are smasha gunz, 2000 points of shooting will be dedicated solely at them. With that one threat gone, all you have left are units which are neither good at killing stuff nor survivable - meaning you will most likely lose the mission.


Pretty much this.

If there was actual variety in grot units beyond our basic troops and mek gunz (i.e. a rebel grot leader, grot snipers, saboteurs....) there maybe some actual tactics that could be discussed beyond just spamming the same two units over and over. That or if Killa Kanz were usable competitively speaking.

It's a pity GW doesn't seem to appreciate the role grotz could play in an Ork army considering their cousins over in AoS with Gloomspite Gitz have so much flavour and options. Alas, they're relegated as bullet sponges and CP batteries in 40k for the time being.

Also, I've been seeing how Goffs work out list wise, does Ghazzy have a place in a list with them? Besides matching with their kultur, he does give them an attack boost and he's survivable as far as our HQ's go. The only problem being he's slightly overcosted, and competition wise he doesn't outdo the Killa Klaw Boss as far as efficiency goes. Would it be worth it to include him but not make him the Warlord? Has anyone tried using him?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 01:45:39


Post by: flandarz


Trukkz are our cheapest transport option (though the Chinork is only slightly more expensive). It certainly can't compete with the BB or BW, but in certain lists, it can definitely have a home. With Deathskullz or Snakebitez, or with a KFF Mek inside, it has a decent chance of getting your Gitz or TBs into range. Especially since you'll have more points to spend on additional threats.

I like Ghaz. If you're rolling a mono Goff, there's probably no reason not to include him. If you're souping, though, you probably don't have the points to spare on him, unfortunately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for Grots, what'd be real nice is a Strat to allow Grots to benefit from Kultur. 3 CP, spent pre-deployment. "Grot Units within this Detachment benefit from Kultur." That'd make every single Grot unit much more viable and useful.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 03:00:01


Post by: russellmoo


I think Ghaz is slightly overcosted, but definitely playable. The only real drawback is that your liat is built around him, which makes it obvious to your opponent that you are going to go up the board and try and punch him to death.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 12:23:42


Post by: koooaei


I tend to run all shootas now. With how problematic it gets to charge in behind screens or to even charge at all, some extra shooting goes a long way.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 13:24:26


Post by: Vineheart01


yeah i pretty much dont run choppa boyz anymore. Da Jumping full shoota squads has been scaring a lot of my local players, and long as theyre 20+ theyre still a threat in melee (or warpath)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 17:23:48


Post by: flaming tadpole


I kinda want to try da jumping a mobbed up 20 nobs. Maybe keep them in the back the first 1-2 turns to see if they can proc loot it from a mek gun or something. Basically 20 primaris marines with 6 S5 attacks each if you cast warpath would be pretty intimidating.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 18:02:07


Post by: Vineheart01


yeah every once in awhile i get a wild idea like that i never actually do either because i lack the models or it feels like it should no way in hell work the way i think it will lol

I just found a way to have 6 trukks and 2 bonebreakas with a wartrike in the same 2k list and now i really wanna try that even though i dont have 6 trukks and its probably gonna fail hardcore anyway lol


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 18:23:43


Post by: flandarz


I'm considering making a Freebootas List with like 3 Trukks full of Flash Gitz, a Boy Mob or two, and a bunch of Smashas and Traktors. It'll probably suck.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 18:46:01


Post by: Jidmah


 flaming tadpole wrote:
I kinda want to try da jumping a mobbed up 20 nobs. Maybe keep them in the back the first 1-2 turns to see if they can proc loot it from a mek gun or something. Basically 20 primaris marines with 6 S5 attacks each if you cast warpath would be pretty intimidating.


Congratulation, you manage to make Blood Angel Reavers

Sadly, 20 primaris marines are basically the opposite of something good, so it's not a goal you should be pursuing.

If you like nobz, put them in battlewagons or bonebreakers and drive them into your enemy line. They will get there just as fast as when jumping them, and a charge is much more likely should they survive.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 19:10:08


Post by: An Actual Englishman


So a few varied lists have done relatively well recently.

One list had no Boyz at all - only Grots for troops. The player took a LOT of them too. Shows how good Boyz are I suppose :-D I think the same player took 20 Meganobz too.

We've mentioned Ben Jurek's Freeboota list already.

There were a few lists taking multiple Gork and Morkanauts.

More than one list didn't take any Lootas, which I'm not surprised at.

One thing I thought was particularly innovative was taking 10 Nobz with a Kustom Shoota and Kombi Rokkit on each. It pushes their cost up 14ppm but they can be used as pseudo Tankbustas with a nice bit of anti infantry dakka. Apparently index shenanigans allow it.

I'll do more digging but I think it's time to innovate Boyz.

E - Flash Gits were also taken in decent numbers and outside of Freebootas.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 19:37:59


Post by: russellmoo


I have been looking hard at flashgitz, what has been holding me back is that they are not as point efficient as lootas. I think they would be truly competitive if GW shaved 2-3 ppm off the cost.

Thanks for the info.

I also have tried a list without boyz that went well, and was wondering if I was crazy not taking boyz. It's good to know I'm not alone.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 20:03:22


Post by: PiñaColada


I still feel like I face -1 to hit armies too often to really use flash gitz to their fullest extent. But then again, I only own 5 so figuring out what the other slots in the trukk are filled out with has always been a challenge.

I might pick up some more in the near future, especially now that we know that the Ork Kill Team Elite box has flash gitz in it. Depending on what terrain comes in that box I might just pull the trigger on one of those. Would have to convert the second kaptin though, can't have duplicates


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 20:16:55


Post by: tneva82


 Jidmah wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
I kinda want to try da jumping a mobbed up 20 nobs. Maybe keep them in the back the first 1-2 turns to see if they can proc loot it from a mek gun or something. Basically 20 primaris marines with 6 S5 attacks each if you cast warpath would be pretty intimidating.


Congratulation, you manage to make Blood Angel Reavers

Sadly, 20 primaris marines are basically the opposite of something good, so it's not a goal you should be pursuing.

If you like nobz, put them in battlewagons or bonebreakers and drive them into your enemy line. They will get there just as fast as when jumping them, and a charge is much more likely should they survive.


Surviving is IMO lot less likely than 78% that jump gives you. You need plenty more vehicle threats for that battlewagon to not be blown apart right off the bat.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 20:20:52


Post by: PiñaColada


tneva82 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
I kinda want to try da jumping a mobbed up 20 nobs. Maybe keep them in the back the first 1-2 turns to see if they can proc loot it from a mek gun or something. Basically 20 primaris marines with 6 S5 attacks each if you cast warpath would be pretty intimidating.


Congratulation, you manage to make Blood Angel Reavers

Sadly, 20 primaris marines are basically the opposite of something good, so it's not a goal you should be pursuing.

If you like nobz, put them in battlewagons or bonebreakers and drive them into your enemy line. They will get there just as fast as when jumping them, and a charge is much more likely should they survive.


Surviving is IMO lot less likely than 78% that jump gives you. You need plenty more vehicle threats for that battlewagon to not be blown apart right off the bat.

Sure, but are you going to T1 da jump the mobbed up Nobz? They'll charge chaff then, are they really better at that than normal boyz (who still fill troop slots and can be brought back)?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 20:22:37


Post by: Vineheart01


thats assuming they make a 9" charge, which even with 'Ere We Go is not that likely. And if they fail that charge they are sitting ducks.
I pretty much only Da Jump shoota boyz unless i ran out of shoota boyz to jump because i dont care if they fail the charge, getting the entire unit within 18" of chaff is what im after.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 20:52:50


Post by: tneva82


PiñaColada wrote:

Sure, but are you going to T1 da jump the mobbed up Nobz? They'll charge chaff then, are they really better at that than normal boyz (who still fill troop slots and can be brought back)?


Yep no. That's why they are either da jumped T2 after being in somewhere safe or if that's not viable tellyport. Being on vehicle has quite real danger of having vehicle blown right away. And even if it can move once it might not be in range to intended target especially against mobile army anyway. Deep strike has lot more reach.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
thats assuming they make a 9" charge, which even with 'Ere We Go is not that likely. And if they fail that charge they are sitting ducks.
I pretty much only Da Jump shoota boyz unless i ran out of shoota boyz to jump because i dont care if they fail the charge, getting the entire unit within 18" of chaff is what im after.


+1 for charge, 78" chance. Chance of bw being blown up T1 if you don't have major vehicle spam is lot bigger than 22%


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 20:56:13


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Flash Gits in Trukks (to loot) seems good but then there's the heavy weapon, the 372 pt price tag and the S6 weapon.

If they were Str 7 it'd be a no brainier but S6 really puts me off. They are OK against light vehicles and elite Infantry I suppose but neither of those things scare me.

Also 372 pts (with ammo runts) seems expensive. That's a Gork/Morkanaut but it degrades quicker and is easier to wound (but has more of them).

Hmmm, maybe they're useful for sitting in cover in the midfield trying to blast away Bulgryns and the like? A 2+ save if Looted Trukk in cover sounds tasty.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 20:59:02


Post by: flaming tadpole


 Jidmah wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
I kinda want to try da jumping a mobbed up 20 nobs. Maybe keep them in the back the first 1-2 turns to see if they can proc loot it from a mek gun or something. Basically 20 primaris marines with 6 S5 attacks each if you cast warpath would be pretty intimidating.


Congratulation, you manage to make Blood Angel Reavers

Sadly, 20 primaris marines are basically the opposite of something good, so it's not a goal you should be pursuing.

If you like nobz, put them in battlewagons or bonebreakers and drive them into your enemy line. They will get there just as fast as when jumping them, and a charge is much more likely should they survive.
I mean I didn't necessarily say it was gonna be good I just said I wanted to try it. In theory it doesn't seem too bad. More killy and durable than a max boyz squad for about 70pts more doesn't seem too shabby. Main problem is pretty much all my nobs have bc or pk's. Maybe I can get away with counting a bc as a normal choppa since nobs are bigger? lol.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 21:08:38


Post by: Vineheart01


Yeah 300pts for 10 Flashgitz is not that tasty since even if they loot the transport (which adds to that price) since when is ~10 2W 3+ save models hard to kill?

The only reason 5-10 marines are annoying to kill is because they have the range to just park it in cover and get that stupid 2+ save (still the only major rule in 8th that pisses me off...). Once the cover is out of the question they still die pretty quick.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/13 23:24:42


Post by: Emicrania


Just wanted to say that I played Ben Jurek 2nd version of Freebooterz in TTS today vs a eldari soup (but no cat lady); he conceded end of T2.
I never had so much firepower, Target saturation and mobility before. The list is plain scary and basically works without stratagems. I guess vs a knight you might wanna deep strike the gorkas but otherwise you will dominate the battlefield
Highlight of the match: Super SAG mek with moar dakka and killa reputation did 15 W on a exarch,he vected when I wanted to shoot again another jet


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 04:58:57


Post by: koooaei


How many times can a badmoon vigilus mek shoot with all those strategems. I wana say 3 but one strat is "shoot 2 times" another one is "shoot for the second time". Not sure you can get 3 shootings in.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 05:53:11


Post by: russellmoo


You can shoot twice. As both strategems while different put a limit on how many times the unit can shoot, the limit will be either shooting a second time, or shoot twice. Neither stratagem allows for you to shoot a third time, or another time. A phrase like that would be necessary since the rulebook limits a unit to shooting once.

The strategem effectively breaks the rule, and allows you to shoot either twice, or for a second time depending on the strategem being used.

While it is easy to see how you could construe things to say you could shoot twice, and then shoot for a second time, however, this is stretching the definition of twice to suit the result you are trying to achieve.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 07:41:38


Post by: Moriarty


 flandarz wrote:
I'm considering making a Freebootas List with like 3 Trukks full of Flash Gitz, a Boy Mob or two, and a bunch of Smashas and Traktors. It'll probably suck.


My 1k list is 2x warboss, 2x 10 Flash Gitz, 2x ammo runts, 2x trukks, 3x 10 grotz. Works fine for me with loot it to improve saves and Grot shield.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 08:04:12


Post by: Emicrania


Moriarty wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
I'm considering making a Freebootas List with like 3 Trukks full of Flash Gitz, a Boy Mob or two, and a bunch of Smashas and Traktors. It'll probably suck.


My 1k list is 2x warboss, 2x 10 Flash Gitz, 2x ammo runts, 2x trukks, 3x 10 grotz. Works fine for me with loot it to improve saves and Grot shield.


Are the warboss on bike? Otherwise what happens if you get outmaneuvered and you need that breaking heads?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 08:33:45


Post by: PiñaColada


Moriarty wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
I'm considering making a Freebootas List with like 3 Trukks full of Flash Gitz, a Boy Mob or two, and a bunch of Smashas and Traktors. It'll probably suck.


My 1k list is 2x warboss, 2x 10 Flash Gitz, 2x ammo runts, 2x trukks, 3x 10 grotz. Works fine for me with loot it to improve saves and Grot shield.

I'm all for trying out different lists, I do it myself all the time. But I gotta admit that I'm struggling to see how you're using those warbosses. Are they going in the same trukks as the flash gitz? Because they want to operate at different ranges. Or maybe you might deepstrike them but I'm not sure if you have enough chaff clearing to reliably get them to deepstrike T2 rather than T3.

Still, if you've made it work in your games I'll gladly listen to how you've played it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 10:29:33


Post by: tneva82


PiñaColada wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
I'm considering making a Freebootas List with like 3 Trukks full of Flash Gitz, a Boy Mob or two, and a bunch of Smashas and Traktors. It'll probably suck.


My 1k list is 2x warboss, 2x 10 Flash Gitz, 2x ammo runts, 2x trukks, 3x 10 grotz. Works fine for me with loot it to improve saves and Grot shield.

I'm all for trying out different lists, I do it myself all the time. But I gotta admit that I'm struggling to see how you're using those warbosses. Are they going in the same trukks as the flash gitz? Because they want to operate at different ranges. Or maybe you might deepstrike them but I'm not sure if you have enough chaff clearing to reliably get them to deepstrike T2 rather than T3.

Still, if you've made it work in your games I'll gladly listen to how you've played it.


Well could be h2h protector for the flashgits for example. With just 24" range and super soft trukks you can't count on being out of h2h forever if you want to actually shoot something. Especially useful.

Playing on saturday vs eldar who wants to play practice game for competive single codex no allies(except different regiments etc within same codex) tournament. 1850 pts. Howabout this one? Not trying specifically anti-eldar list so went for what I would take if I were to play this tournament.

battalion - evil suns:

warboss(da killa klaw, brutal&kunning)
weirdboy(da jump)

30xboyz(19 choppas, power klaw)
30xboyz(29 choppas, big choppa)
10xgretchin
4xmek gun(2xsmasha gun, traktor, kmk)

battalion - bad moons:

2xweirdboy(fist of gork, da jump)
runtherd
30xboyz(all shootas, power klaw)
30xgretchin
24xgretchin

15xlootas
2x3 mek guns(smasha gun, traktor kannon, KMK each)

So loota star, 90 boyz, 10 mek guns. 13 CP is bit low. Lootas eat 3-6 per turn so I'm thinking putting just one evil sun mob into tellyporta. Turn 1 Da jump bad moon boys to clear chaff. Turn 2 da jump rest. Blow things up.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 11:59:07


Post by: flandarz


The only real issues I see with that 1k list is that you only have two targets for your opponent (the Trukks with everything inside them), and your only units that can capture objectives are the Grots. Also seems hard to proc the Freebootas trait, since you're relying on the Gitz to do so, and they won't be able to give the bonus to anyone from within the Trukk, since they aren't on the board. Otherwise, it looks fun.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 12:21:47


Post by: Emicrania


Yeah, you need some mek gunz to proc that sweet +1


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 14:17:05


Post by: tneva82


Some as in lots. 2-3 isn't easily killing full units and besides mek guns die in droves. I'm now take 0 or 10+ camp expecting to lose minimum 4 per turn


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 14:56:53


Post by: flandarz


It's only a 1k list. What 1k list out there is wiping 4+ Mek Gunz a turn?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 17:42:44


Post by: Jidmah


Eldar/Harlequins with many haywire shots or lists with three helverines come to mind.

However, 1000 points is not a format that is commonly played with top competitive choices.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 19:07:43


Post by: tneva82


Ah right 1k. Well 2 mek guns easy peacy and if you have like 4 2 will struggle to kill whole unit


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/14 23:02:58


Post by: flandarz


That's true, Jidmah. I was just remarking on its viability as a 1k list, not saying 1k is common.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 07:33:42


Post by: Moriarty


 Emicrania wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
I'm considering making a Freebootas List with like 3 Trukks full of Flash Gitz, a Boy Mob or two, and a bunch of Smashas and Traktors. It'll probably suck.


My 1k list is 2x warboss, 2x 10 Flash Gitz, 2x ammo runts, 2x trukks, 3x 10 grotz. Works fine for me with loot it to improve saves and Grot shield.


Are the warboss on bike? Otherwise what happens if you get outmaneuvered and you need that breaking heads?


Sorry, warboss in each truckk to add punch if cc is in the offing. FG are still Nobz, though, with Choppa, so do the job quite well.

Obviously how they play depends on the table and who is opposite. Generally stay in trukk until it is looted, with grots denying back field to DS units, concentrate on one enemy flank and chew through the other army one unit at a time. Showing Off is fun - the opponents’ expression is a joy : - )

I don’t worry about how ‘competetive’ it is, just happy my Gitz are getting an airing. So far did well vs DE flyers, not so much vs Necrontyr ‘jump’ troops, and a right ‘ding-dong’ vs Custards, took it down to the invul Champion who would Just Not Die.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 09:08:31


Post by: tneva82


With 2nd unit of nobs in work I thought about trying ram some T8 vehicles in your face list. Evil sun and goff battalions. Both battallions have warboss+weirdboy+waagh banner+10 nobs+bonebreaka+3x10 grots+gorkanaut. Also 3 smasha gun.

Bit low on bodies but you have 4 T8 vehicles plus 3 smasha guns.

Thinking of starting on board with everything to saturate enemy AT firepower. I should get T2 charges in anyway. Or maybe DS goff gorkanaut that's the slowest and use ramming speed to charge T2

Too bad couldn't fit KFF there but with index ban around no cheap options for that.

13 CP and with no lootas or tellyportas I should have for a change plenty of CP's.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Found out these:

https://bitsofwar.com/home/705-kopta-kan-meat-grinder-squadron.html

And started thinking trio could be useful. One thing I lack is FA choices. Particularly cheap ones for brigade except for goff 5 strong stormboyz units...

So. Was thinking trio of these for death skulls could be handy. But what weapon? KMK would require conversions but cheapest option and d6 damage isn't that bad with deathskull reroll. OTOH rokkits cost more, flat 3 is worse than d6 with reroll but does have 2 shots which I think is pretty ideal shot count for deathskull reroll rule.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 12:10:41


Post by: Jidmah


 flandarz wrote:
That's true, Jidmah. I was just remarking on its viability as a 1k list, not saying 1k is common.


Oh, that was not what I'm saying at all. 1000 (and 850 for that matter) is VERY common in my area - just not for tournaments. Campaigns, pick-up games, beginner matches and "let's talk about our hobby while shoving models"-games are usually played at that game size, but you rarely run into the best of the best when doing so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
With 2nd unit of nobs in work I thought about trying ram some T8 vehicles in your face list. Evil sun and goff battalions. Both battallions have warboss+weirdboy+waagh banner+10 nobs+bonebreaka+3x10 grots+gorkanaut. Also 3 smasha gun.

Bit low on bodies but you have 4 T8 vehicles plus 3 smasha guns.

If you are running Goff anyways, why not bring Thrakka? You basically get two killa klaws that way. I also don't see why you would want two banners in the army, since neither the warbosses nor the bonebreakers benefit from it.

You also have Warboss+Weirdboy+Banner+10 nobz add up to 13 models, which do not fit inside the bonebreaker. From experience, you will always roll at least one 6 when a wagon blows up, so you can save points by replacing one choppachoppa nob with an ammo runt.

I assume that your clans are locked in by your paint job as usual? Otherwise you could get some more mileage out of re-arranging your army.

Thinking of starting on board with everything to saturate enemy AT firepower. I should get T2 charges in anyway. Or maybe DS goff gorkanaut that's the slowest and use ramming speed to charge T2

With evil suns you can bring a deffkilla wartrike and aim to assault something T1 - advance bonebreaka 14+d6" in and then try ramming speed. You can follow up with the wartrike itself and maybe some koptas as well, since all of them advance flat 6". Even if you just tie down chaff, this will draw fire from your nauts since they have to shoot the bonebreaka and trike in order to prevent them from diving deep into their lines and actually touching something valuable. At 2000 points few lists will be able to destroy a bonebreaker and a wartrike and still be able to meaningful harm a naut.

Too bad couldn't fit KFF there but with index ban around no cheap options for that.

If you really want a KFF, then switch a gorkanaut for a morkanaut? They aren't that far apart in efficiency.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Found out these:

https://bitsofwar.com/home/705-kopta-kan-meat-grinder-squadron.html

And started thinking trio could be useful. One thing I lack is FA choices. Particularly cheap ones for brigade except for goff 5 strong stormboyz units...

If I bring a brigade I often bring a unit of 3-5 and two single ones. The awesome part about koptas are that they can benefit from lots of stratagems since they are speed freaks and vehicles and have fly. You can protect them with exhaust cloud, speed them up with ramming speed, get them out of trouble or onto objectives with drive-by krumpin', try to destroy a flyer with uncontrolled bursts and more dakka or loot them when they get destroyed. The stratagems are wasted on a single kopta, so I usually bring a unit with additional models. They also aren't terrible at clearing infantry with their kopta blades, so I sometimes use them for that.
In general koptas work very well alongside battlewagons, since any weapon decent at killing koptas is also good at killing any of our other vehicles, so they add to target saturation despite having a vastly different profile.

So. Was thinking trio of these for death skulls could be handy. But what weapon? KMK would require conversions but cheapest option and d6 damage isn't that bad with deathskull reroll. OTOH rokkits cost more, flat 3 is worse than d6 with reroll but does have 2 shots which I think is pretty ideal shot count for deathskull reroll rule.

KMB is an index-only option, so the decision has been made for you.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 16:02:15


Post by: SemperMortis


Just to add in my 2 cents to the trukk debate....they suck

Every single Ork vehicle and basically anything orky with T5+ is over priced. Trukkz are just in a terrible place right now because they lack a use beyond mobile bunkers and bullet sponges and they aren't very good at either job. With zero upgrades a Trukk is 64pts, its T6 with 10 wounds and a 4+ save with a transport capacity of 12, armed with a single Big Shoota. A Rhino upgraded with a 2nd stormbolter is 74pts....So its 10pts more then a Trukk, It is T7, 10 wounds with a 3+ save a transport capacity of 10 and 2 Stormbolters which when the Bolter beta rule becomes a thing, are capable of pushing out 8 S4 shots a turn at 24' range compared to the Trukkz 3 shots at 36' range. Ohh, and it comes built in with a single use -1 to hit for 1 turn.

A Rhino is better across the board. People argue that the transport capacity is smaller but fail to remember that SM's generally aren't bringing units of 10+ where as Orkz almost exclusively bring 10+. Then there is the argument about Open topped and shooting out the vehicle but you have to remember at that point then the unit is just adding armor in the form of a 64pt trukk. So another 5pts to each model inside the trukk. The biggest point though is that while Rhino's are better almost at everything, they still don't see much game time because they suck compared to other options SM's can take. Why have a transport when you can just deep strike those terminators, or why take a vehicle with S4 shots when you can take a razorback and have Twin assault cannons or lascannons.

Trukkz suck and every ork vehicle is over priced. I love taking my Bonebreaker wagons to a game and having them deep strike turn 2 but even I know that they are drastically over priced and under performing when compared to other factions units. You can take almost 4 Bonebreakers for the cost of a single Knight Castellan....which is going to win that contest? I will give you a hint, the Castellan, even without strats is going to obliterate a bonebreaker and some change EVERY turn. By the end of turn 2 it will have killed at least 2 BBs and severely wounded a 3rd. and when you finally get into CC the Castellan wins.


Ork vehicles are supposed to be cheap and either durable or full of dakka.....none of our current iteration of vehicles fits that mold. Mek Gunz are probably close but they lack the damage output to justify how easy they are to kill and give the enemy an easy first blood every game.

Now, with regards to my recent game I can tell you that my initial feelings about boyz seems to have been proven right. They just aren't good enough anymore and nothing else in the codex became powerful enough to fill the hole left behind by boyz getting over priced. Most of my opponents have found simple strategies to get around my loota bomb and some of the more innovative guys have even found ways to kill my Relic SAG Big Mek.

I am hoping they fix some of the glaring holes in our codex with the FAQ but I somehow doubt they will.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 16:47:53


Post by: flandarz


Everyone already knows Ork units are overpriced for what they give ya. Hell, even Grots. Sure, they're only 4pts a model, but they're so weak and easy to kill their only use is to generate CP and act as bullet sponges with Grot Shield.

The truck conversation was in regards to other Ork transports, not as to whether or not they stack up compared to transports in other armies.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 16:49:54


Post by: Vineheart01


Grots are so pathetic that when they kill ANYTHING (i.e. 10 fire at assault marines and manage to kill 1) it feels like pure luck on my side.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 17:02:17


Post by: tneva82


 Jidmah wrote:

If you are running Goff anyways, why not bring Thrakka? You basically get two killa klaws that way. I also don't see why you would want two banners in the army, since neither the warbosses nor the bonebreakers benefit from it.


150 pts or so why! Also eats up place of a nob and is basically just slower expensive warlord with 4++. Nice but the price!

(Clan); units within 6" of any friendly Waaagh! banner add 1 to their hit rolls in the Fight phase.

Note the word clan. Sure I could drop one(probably the one with killa klaw warboss. Regular warboss benefits just fine tyvm hitting on 2+ with his -1 to hit power klaw) but that's one nob unit hitting on 3+'s then.

You also have Warboss+Weirdboy+Banner+10 nobz add up to 13 models, which do not fit inside the bonebreaker. From experience, you will always roll at least one 6 when a wagon blows up, so you can save points by replacing one choppachoppa nob with an ammo runt.


Yes they do not all fit. Which is why weirdboys were never going there. Can't cast from inside anyway, no real need to be there giving easy assasinate targets.

And yes 1's are going to come. But that's assuming wagons always blow up and if they do I'm expecting nobs to melt away right away anyway. It's bit of saved points when you lose wagon(and nobs along with it) but wasted points when it's not for waste of a space when you don't. Ammo runt there does nothing if wagon doesn't blow up.

I assume that your clans are locked in by your paint job as usual? Otherwise you could get some more mileage out of re-arranging your army.


Yeah well wysiwyg is a thing in Finland. Common courtesy. You don't want to be going "these black and white orks are X while these black and white orks are actually Y".


With evil suns you can bring a deffkilla wartrike and aim to assault something T1 - advance bonebreaka 14+d6" in and then try ramming speed. You can follow up with the wartrike itself and maybe some koptas as well, since all of them advance flat 6". Even if you just tie down chaff, this will draw fire from your nauts since they have to shoot the bonebreaka and trike in order to prevent them from diving deep into their lines and actually touching something valuable. At 2000 points few lists will be able to destroy a bonebreaker and a wartrike and still be able to meaningful harm a naut.


Yes but that's 120 pts and only very few armies(pure marines basically) that's actually possible in practice. Against most I move, charge, kill little, then bonebreaka gets surrounded by chaff and blown(being middle of enemy army that's easy not to mention the extra juice makes it worth ignoring generally everything to do it) and hey presto not only did I lose bonebreaka but also warboss, banner and 10 nobs and he didn't even need to bother to SHOOT at the contents.

For that I would need lot more chaff clearing ability to but as it is this won't clear any of that on T1 really.


If you really want a KFF, then switch a gorkanaut for a morkanaut? They aren't that far apart in efficiency.


Sure. Just get me one I have 2 gorkanauts. I don't have morkanaut. I got 2nd gorkanaut second hand so much to my annoyance still lacking morkanaut. That was one reason(along with 2nd stompa) 2nd hand deal was bit of "hmmmmm....." but over 60% discount was in the end too good to pass out on.


If I bring a brigade I often bring a unit of 3-5 and two single ones. The awesome part about koptas are that they can benefit from lots of stratagems since they are speed freaks and vehicles and have fly.


Yeah well not ruling out more later but for now 3 is what I'm eyeballing. That price I can deal with and there's also 9 evil sun meganobz I'm eyeballing. I'm not made out of cash So for now 3 which gives me brigade minimums and 3 rather handy rerollable plasma or rokkits should be enough.

I could go for big unit of course but that's missing bit of power on rerolls. If I go that way plasma weapon would be obv choise though. Having only 1 reroll for 3 hurts less when you are throwing 3 shots rather than 6.



KMB is an index-only option, so the decision has been made for you.


Oh bugger. Was looking over rules from BS while at work so missed that one. Well yeah then at most magnetize and have KMK for the hyper rare tournaments that allow them. So rokkits it is. Damn. It's the price that annoys more as it's more expensive brigade.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 17:03:10


Post by: PiñaColada


 flandarz wrote:
Everyone already knows Ork units are overpriced for what they give ya. Hell, even Grots. Sure, they're only 4pts a model, but they're so weak and easy to kill their only use is to generate CP and act as bullet sponges with Grot Shield.

The truck conversation was in regards to other Ork transports, not as to whether or not they stack up compared to transports in other armies.

Grots are 3 points a pop, not 4 fortunately. Only the oilers/ammo runts are 4ppm.

It's still a vast difference in worth between grots at 3ppm and guardsmen at 4ppm though


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 17:06:25


Post by: tneva82


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Grots are so pathetic that when they kill ANYTHING (i.e. 10 fire at assault marines and manage to kill 1) it feels like pure luck on my side.


Well they aren't meant to be killing stuff(30 will kill 2.6 assault marines). For objectives, deep strike blocking and of course CP they are good.

Something like 40-50 or so can basically prevent deep strikes/come within edge to your DZ. And enemy will need to kill nearly all of them to get because you don't need more than 4 grots alive to ensure nobody can for example come within 6" of your rear edge on 6'x4' board...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 17:07:30


Post by: SemperMortis


PiñaColada wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
Everyone already knows Ork units are overpriced for what they give ya. Hell, even Grots. Sure, they're only 4pts a model, but they're so weak and easy to kill their only use is to generate CP and act as bullet sponges with Grot Shield.

The truck conversation was in regards to other Ork transports, not as to whether or not they stack up compared to transports in other armies.

Grots are 3 points a pop, not 4 fortunately. Only the oilers/ammo runts are 4ppm.

It's still a vast difference in worth between grots at 3ppm and guardsmen at 4ppm though


Actual Grots should be 2ppm and get access to Grot Pistols and Grot blastas, where the Blasta is just range 24. The Oilers/runts are 3ppm and realistically only because they add a meat shield wound.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 17:45:02


Post by: tneva82


So what would be the flipside of blasta? 24" range and no other difference would be stupid. S2? Extra point? And don't even try to say "pistol has pistol rather than assault" as assault would actually be better as would rapid fire. So blasta either needs to cost more or have some other bad side compared to pistol so less S or heavy as weapon type.

(and that would be PITA to look "this model has pistol, that model has blasta". ARGH!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 21:52:28


Post by: An Actual Englishman


With some of the comments around our units on the last few pages do we still feel that the ranking on the first page is accurate?

Boyz are still considered the highest tier unit? I disagree.
Traktor Cannons?
Tank Bustas and Bonebreakas?! I've never seen either in a top performing competitive list. Tank Bustas are pretty lame since they can't use stratagems from a Trukk and Bonebreakas are too expensive IMO.

Jidmah - can we have a look at the ranking system and rejig some things please?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 22:03:12


Post by: tneva82


I have never been particularly hurt by strategems not working inside trukk for tank bustas. They get generally da jumped into position anyway. Safer, better range, cheaper. In trukk they would be harder to hide AND have range.

Boyz aren't best units yes though unit or two still needed.

Traktor kannon...It's bit of specialised weapons but seeing how insaneously popular eldar flyers are can be worth it. You are looking at hitting on 6's on them otherwise. Only other options you have is more dakka on say lootas but agents of vect says "no to that"(well actually they just kill lootas before they shoot). So having some non-strategem dependant anti-alaitoc flyer killers is handy to have around in tournaments.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 22:07:50


Post by: An Actual Englishman


I'm not sure the front page list has been changed since Vigilus defiant dropped. The SAG Mek has no mention of firing twice with the relic SAG for example.

Might be worth revisiting.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 22:12:15


Post by: tneva82


Well I don't bother with those first page things anyway so can't put up strong opinion on that one. Not sure have I ever read that first page part.

The firing twice for SAG isn't particularly good idea though. 2CP for random shots and S chance. If you had the stats(at least one of them) stay same for shots sure but now you need pretty weird spot. At least with lootas you know how many shots you get before you commit for spending 2CP. And you fire with lot more models.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 22:19:47


Post by: An Actual Englishman


I'm on about using the relic SAG and the dread waaaagh fire again stratagem (that can't be used on Lootas).

I'm not a massive fan of the relic SAG if I'm honest, it's too random for me and the soon-to-be Assassin meta will kill them dead, I think (see what I did there?). It is sweeping the competitive scene though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/15 22:33:11


Post by: tneva82


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm on about using the relic SAG and the dread waaaagh fire again stratagem (that can't be used on Lootas).

I'm not a massive fan of the relic SAG if I'm honest, it's too random for me and the soon-to-be Assassin meta will kill them dead, I think (see what I did there?). It is sweeping the competitive scene though.


Yes I know that strategem. Doesn't change the fact that when you shoot with SAG again you have to roll for shots and S AGAIN. Compared to using the bad moon strategem for lootas you have no idea on how good round you are spending 2CP. With bad moon strategem on lootas you know in advance do you shoot 1, 2 or 3 shots per loota if you fire again. With SAG thing you know only you shoot 2d6 S2d6 shots. So you could spend 2CP anywhere from 2 S2 shots to 12 S12 shots...

I could see myself spending 2CP to get that SAG if opposing army is one that has worthwhile targets and no easy way to snipe him away and just settle for regular SAG otherwise saving 2CP. But that strategem I can't see myself using. 2CP for new chance to fire that rather unreliable gun is too much.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/16 13:43:17


Post by: Jidmah


tneva82 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:

If you are running Goff anyways, why not bring Thrakka? You basically get two killa klaws that way. I also don't see why you would want two banners in the army, since neither the warbosses nor the bonebreakers benefit from it.


150 pts or so why! Also eats up place of a nob and is basically just slower expensive warlord with 4++. Nice but the price!

You drop both the banner and the warboss for Thrakka, since his buff is better than the warbanner due to the goff trait and also affects your Evil Suns nobz if they are close enough. Thrakkas 2+/4++/T6/W8 is enough to overpower deamon princes, dreads and other things that your would usually just suicide your klaw boss into.
If you drop both banners and replace the warboss you end up paying just one more point than before.

(Clan); units within 6" of any friendly Waaagh! banner add 1 to their hit rolls in the Fight phase.

Note the word clan. Sure I could drop one(probably the one with killa klaw warboss. Regular warboss benefits just fine tyvm hitting on 2+ with his -1 to hit power klaw) but that's one nob unit hitting on 3+'s then.

You are still spending 77 points to buff a single unit of nobz - without doing the math, I'd wager there are more efficient things to spend points on. I'd just drop them completely, hitting on 3's is plenty for nobz.

You also have Warboss+Weirdboy+Banner+10 nobz add up to 13 models, which do not fit inside the bonebreaker. From experience, you will always roll at least one 6 when a wagon blows up, so you can save points by replacing one choppachoppa nob with an ammo runt.


Yes they do not all fit. Which is why weirdboys were never going there. Can't cast from inside anyway, no real need to be there giving easy assasinate targets.

What's your plan for them then? Have them run after the wagons and get sniped by planes or bikes? If just need cheap HQs, SAGs are much better for hiding among gretchin and mek guns.

And yes 1's are going to come. But that's assuming wagons always blow up and if they do I'm expecting nobs to melt away right away anyway. It's bit of saved points when you lose wagon(and nobs along with it) but wasted points when it's not for waste of a space when you don't. Ammo runt there does nothing if wagon doesn't blow up.

It still takes the first bullet aimed at the unit, just like that nob. You are basically spending 10 points for the rare occasion where 10 nobz make it into combat. I run usually run 10 nobz+2 ammo runts and have yet to get an ammo runt into combat - and my opponents pack a lot less firepower than yours.

I assume that your clans are locked in by your paint job as usual? Otherwise you could get some more mileage out of re-arranging your army.


Yeah well wysiwyg is a thing in Finland. Common courtesy. You don't want to be going "these black and white orks are X while these black and white orks are actually Y".

No sweat Just making sure that this is the case before wasting both our times with ideas on how to arrange your army into something you wouldn't be able to do anyways.


Yes but that's 120 pts and only very few armies(pure marines basically) that's actually possible in practice. Against most I move, charge, kill little, then bonebreaka gets surrounded by chaff and blown(being middle of enemy army that's easy not to mention the extra juice makes it worth ignoring generally everything to do it) and hey presto not only did I lose bonebreaka but also warboss, banner and 10 nobs and he didn't even need to bother to SHOOT at the contents.

Do you have a battle report on that actually ever happening?

A bonebreaka is almost 8" long, and barring awesome charge rolls like tripple sixes, you will be just barely touching one or two models. Those can pile in, of course, but during the fight phase you kill five to seven of those anyways. Then, even if there should be some left, those need to get out of the 1" margin or they will be stuck in combat and the bonebreaka can't be shot, period. So they fall back, and move as far as possible, which is usually up to 6", so a mode which did a maximum pile-in move will not be able to get behind the 8" bone breaka. Other chaff might be moving in as well, which is usually not enough to surround the wagon, even if they advance, since they have to get near the wagon first. Worst case you are facing imperial guardsmen which are ordered to move-move-move and actually manage to get all around the bonebreaka and they still need to have enough models to do a fully surround without you jumping over their lines (deployment is just within 3", no need to deploy them fully within 3"), which is a about 10 per side plus additional models on the front and back. Considering how you just killed about half a squad (plus moral casualties and whatever the wartrike and the koptas killed) that would mean two officers and 30+ models and no terrain blocking involved to pull this off at all. A single failed advance roll is enough to get your warboss and some nobz out, your opponent would be drawing his entire bubble wrap off his units and objectives.
So even assuming all this goes right for your opponent - use your wartrike and koptas to take out nearby units, block their movement by simply standing in the way and remember to the heroic intervention on the wartrike should they try to finish off the wagon in the assault phase. Usual amounts of chaff like the loyal 32 should not be a problem. If you are facing hordes of genestealers, obviously don't charge into those. It's not a mandatory strategy, since you don't actually invest a lot into it, but you have the option to do it when the opportunity arises. Options are good.

In my experience, armies without jet bikes cannot reliably surround the battlewagon model with a deff rolla since it's simply to big if you are aware that it can happen.

In general, the wartrike isn't any worse than a warboss without relic claw, and giving the nauts the ability advance and assault is definitely worth a lot.

For that I would need lot more chaff clearing ability to but as it is this won't clear any of that on T1 really.

You will lose a wagon turn 1. By pulling off a T1 assault you simply decide which one it is. I heavily doubt that you will get it surrounded and killed if you are careful.


If you really want a KFF, then switch a gorkanaut for a morkanaut? They aren't that far apart in efficiency.


Sure. Just get me one I have 2 gorkanauts. I don't have morkanaut. I got 2nd gorkanaut second hand so much to my annoyance still lacking morkanaut. That was one reason(along with 2nd stompa) 2nd hand deal was bit of "hmmmmm....." but over 60% discount was in the end too good to pass out on.

So both are second hand? Bummer. I love building models, so nauts will be magnetized to be whatever.

If I bring a brigade I often bring a unit of 3-5 and two single ones. The awesome part about koptas are that they can benefit from lots of stratagems since they are speed freaks and vehicles and have fly.


Yeah well not ruling out more later but for now 3 is what I'm eyeballing. That price I can deal with and there's also 9 evil sun meganobz I'm eyeballing. I'm not made out of cash So for now 3 which gives me brigade minimums and 3 rather handy rerollable plasma or rokkits should be enough.

Why not get some AOBR koptas then? They still pop up all over ebay since everyone and their dog bought the box for space marines. Singles do work fine though, so go for it. They are surprisingly resilient since no one wants to dedicate as much as single plasma gun to a kopta and bolters or heavy bolters just don't kill them efficiently.

I could go for big unit of course but that's missing bit of power on rerolls. If I go that way plasma weapon would be obv choise though. Having only 1 reroll for 3 hurts less when you are throwing 3 shots rather than 6.

That's weird logic. The rokkit unit simply gets three additional shots and will never need a re-roll since ones don't damage themselves. Rokkits still deal more damage on average, even if you have less re-rolls per shot.


Oh bugger. Was looking over rules from BS while at work so missed that one. Well yeah then at most magnetize and have KMK for the hyper rare tournaments that allow them. So rokkits it is. Damn. It's the price that annoys more as it's more expensive brigade.

For cheap you could always do big shootas. They are basically nob bikers with choppas for lest points but with fly, more range and more wounds.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/16 19:42:47


Post by: tneva82


 Jidmah wrote:

What's your plan for them then? Have them run after the wagons and get sniped by planes or bikes? If just need cheap HQs, SAGs are much better for hiding among gretchin and mek guns.


SAG would require adding 3rd battallion though ;-) That or drop either all goffs or all evil suns to bring in death skulls.

And weirdboys have the grots to provide protection against planes at least. And besides only one of them is needed there. Da jump isn't needed near battle wagon anyway. I'm not likely going to da jump those nobs out of combat now am I?-)



So both are second hand? Bummer. I love building models, so nauts will be magnetized to be whatever.


Nah 1st one was bought when I had yet to magnetize anything and when morkanaut was even worse than now. Ah well. I'll get morkanaut one day. After I get death koptas, 9 evil sun meganobz and bunch of other ideas I have in mind!

Why not get some AOBR koptas then? They still pop up all over ebay since everyone and their dog bought the box for space marines. Singles do work fine though, so go for it. They are surprisingly resilient since no one wants to dedicate as much as single plasma gun to a kopta and bolters or heavy bolters just don't kill them efficiently.


Been trying to look eye on them but generally they seem to go surprisingly high and them it's almost 20£ extra for shipping....Bloody postages! Though checked and there's one sweet deal. 5 bikes, 5 deffkoptas. Though wonder how far bidding goes.


That's weird logic. The rokkit unit simply gets three additional shots and will never need a re-roll since ones don't damage themselves. Rokkits still deal more damage on average, even if you have less re-rolls per shot.


They get more damage due to 2 shots yes but then again plasma has effectively average damage 4 vs 3 of rokkit which evens up lot especially when you factor in points.

One reroll helps more the less shots you have. And rokkits cost more. It's basically average of 0.88 hits vs 0.555 hits or 60% more hits vs plasma. Nice but of course 33% more damage from plasma, better AP and cheaper price.

For cheap you could always do big shootas. They are basically nob bikers with choppas for lest points but with fly, more range and more wounds.


True but that's case of not having as much impact then. Cheap is good but lone big shoota doesn't do much. Rokkits or plasma could scare various things. Especially plasma gives enemy characters even something to worry about because while odds are not best they have POTENTIAL to assasinate so have to considerate that one and position things around.

Much like units that are just durable but don't pose any threat aren't all that great always. Being tough is good yes but if opponent can ignore the unit it's not much of use(except in some scenarios).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/17 13:45:55


Post by: Jidmah


tneva82 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:

What's your plan for them then? Have them run after the wagons and get sniped by planes or bikes? If just need cheap HQs, SAGs are much better for hiding among gretchin and mek guns.


SAG would require adding 3rd battallion though ;-) That or drop either all goffs or all evil suns to bring in death skulls.

And weirdboys have the grots to provide protection against planes at least. And besides only one of them is needed there. Da jump isn't needed near battle wagon anyway. I'm not likely going to da jump those nobs out of combat now am I?-)

Da jump is not needed at all (jumping gretchin is a waste IMO), so you basically have two HQs sitting in the back and doing nothing but throwing unbuffed smites at some targets that chose to be the closest ones within 18". You are better off with just bringing a SAG that might be less reliable, but at least can pick targets. He can also repair mek guns which is nice.

My main reason to bring weird boyz in a mechanized list is to have a deny available. Especially against CSM Sorcerers (Warptime, Death Hex, Prescience), TS or Eldar (Jinx, Quicken/Restrain, Doom). Being able to deny one of those powers or even just a smite is invaluable - even if you don't succeed a single deny for a whole game, your opponent will have to play around it, and some of mine have been blowing CP to make sure that an essential power will not be denied.
Therefore I bring a single warphead for -1 CP with Fists of Gork and Warpath to either have a character hulksmash a vehicle or character or getting those few extra attacks on a nobz unit that needs them. Warpath can also be used on nauts or bonekrushas should the need arise.



So both are second hand? Bummer. I love building models, so nauts will be magnetized to be whatever.


Nah 1st one was bought when I had yet to magnetize anything and when morkanaut was even worse than now. Ah well. I'll get morkanaut one day. After I get death koptas, 9 evil sun meganobz and bunch of other ideas I have in mind!

Why not get some AOBR koptas then? They still pop up all over ebay since everyone and their dog bought the box for space marines. Singles do work fine though, so go for it. They are surprisingly resilient since no one wants to dedicate as much as single plasma gun to a kopta and bolters or heavy bolters just don't kill them efficiently.


Been trying to look eye on them but generally they seem to go surprisingly high and them it's almost 20£ extra for shipping....Bloody postages! Though checked and there's one sweet deal. 5 bikes, 5 deffkoptas. Though wonder how far bidding goes.

They get more damage due to 2 shots yes but then again plasma has effectively average damage 4 vs 3 of rokkit which evens up lot especially when you factor in points.

One reroll helps more the less shots you have. And rokkits cost more. It's basically average of 0.88 hits vs 0.555 hits or 60% more hits vs plasma. Nice but of course 33% more damage from plasma, better AP and cheaper price.

Against a T7 target 3 deffskull rokkit koptas do 3.21 damage, 3 deffskull KMBs do 3.15 if it has no invul save and 2.52 if it has a 5++ save. If you are not shooting vehicles but multi-wound infantry or bikes, the rokkits are much more likely to kill a model than the KMB.
So it basically depends on what you expect to be facing more often.

True but that's case of not having as much impact then. Cheap is good but lone big shoota doesn't do much. Rokkits or plasma could scare various things. Especially plasma gives enemy characters even something to worry about because while odds are not best they have POTENTIAL to assasinate so have to considerate that one and position things around.

Much like units that are just durable but don't pose any threat aren't all that great always. Being tough is good yes but if opponent can ignore the unit it's not much of use(except in some scenarios).

In reality, my koptas spend at least half their games not hitting as single shot all game. Their main use is to capture/contest objectives, deny area, harass shooting units without fly and tie down infantry. Their spinnin' blade is a decent close combat weapon, so you often find yourself shooting, charging some infantry, they fall back, refuse to shoot your single kopta, repeat. At some point your opponent will be annoyed enough with the kopta ork sticking to one of his troops or tanks that they will open fire on it and then it dies. Parking one next to a psyker as a smite magnet is also cute to annoy them.
I really don't think there is that important to have a good weapon on them as they are a utility unit, not a fire base.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/17 21:06:44


Post by: tneva82


 Jidmah wrote:

Da jump is not needed at all (jumping gretchin is a waste IMO), so you basically have two HQs sitting in the back and doing nothing but throwing unbuffed smites at some targets that chose to be the closest ones within 18". You are better off with just bringing a SAG that might be less reliable, but at least can pick targets. He can also repair mek guns which is nice.


Da jump can throw the 2nd weirdboy where he needs to be and da jumping gretchins is far from waste. I have won games with that. Literally. Throwing gretchins around gaining like 5 vp's with that and winning by margin of...wait for it...5. Or roadblock. Even knights gets stopped by line of grots standing front of them slowing them down.

Da jump is awesome even without boyz for charge.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/17 21:14:23


Post by: Grimskul


tneva82 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:

Da jump is not needed at all (jumping gretchin is a waste IMO), so you basically have two HQs sitting in the back and doing nothing but throwing unbuffed smites at some targets that chose to be the closest ones within 18". You are better off with just bringing a SAG that might be less reliable, but at least can pick targets. He can also repair mek guns which is nice.


Da jump can throw the 2nd weirdboy where he needs to be and da jumping gretchins is far from waste. I have won games with that. Literally. Throwing gretchins around gaining like 5 vp's with that and winning by margin of...wait for it...5. Or roadblock. Even knights gets stopped by line of grots standing front of them slowing them down.

Da jump is awesome even without boyz for charge.


I can attest to porting grots as a valid tactic. Even in non-maelstrom games, having a pack of grots that your opponent forget about suddenly claim an abandoned or backfield objective is clutch and can be game-winning. Now it does bank on the game ending in that same turn usually, but it's much more useful than you'd think at first glance.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/17 22:02:12


Post by: geargutz


had 2 games recently that is helping refine a list i want to bring to a Washington tournament.

1st game was against mechanikus knights,1 castelan knight,2 other basic knights,and 2 helverin armigers. he had some sliied primaris marines for objective grabbing (to his credit he doesn't own impguard so he couldn't exploit the loyal 32 for cps).

i brought a 25 badmoon loota star with enough grots to fill 3 batalions,a supa shocka, and 5 megatrak scrapjets and some wierdboyz for cheap hqs.and a morkanaut, i got beat,

relying on the shooting of lootas against T8 knights was not that great,but grot shield kept them alive till they started to engage the grots in combat. all scrapjets and the moprkanaut were destroyed (zoggin castelan and helverins) and the dice gods were not with me as every vehicle i had decided to explode.

so not a good turn out,my next game i decided to focus my list around an ork gun line,something ive always dreamed about and this edition is the closest ill get to an effective one.

2nd game was against my brothers tau list.he just got CA pts drops and was wanting to run suit spam. he brought 1 riptide,1ghostkeel,3 FW dakka hazard suits,and the rest was suits and commanders with stealth suits for grabbing objectives.

my revised list was the 25 badmoon lootas star with enough grots to fill 3 batalions. i had 12 mekguns (4 kmk, 4 traktors, 4smashas). bigmeks with kff (ill use my index to its very last breath this edition), wierdboyz for cheep hqs, and 3 min squads of stormboys and 3 separate bigshoota defkoptas for objective deepstrikeing and objective grabbing. and of course the supashocka on a bike bigmek (i forgot the index bikemek does not have DDD so next time ill bring a basic bigmek with supa shocka).

this game was the 1st time ever in the 3 editions ive played that i shot my brothers tau off the board. i wiped him on turn 3. my supashoka was able to take out his burst cannon riptide out by turn 2. my trakptor kannons killed his qhostkeel (dont need to worry about any -2 to hit if my guns auto hit,lol),and kmks/smashas/and lootas eliminated everything else,and weirdboys even did mortal wounds when he deepstruk close enough (lootas nearby them helped fuel their smites).

i know tau are having issues this edition,im pretty sure this list would've worked very differently vrs 7th edition tau.

supa shocka is great, its a good knight sniper,but has to worry about snipers himself as he has low armor and wounds (kept him nearby KFF).i had my bigmek as badmoon,helps for when i roll a lot of shots for the gun.i gave him "bigkillaboss" for his warlord trait,so he always hit above his weight vrs monsters and vehicles (especially when he rolled low on the supa shocka strength.) "kustom ammo" is great for doing more shots in a round (and if i was desperate to kill more T8 models i wouldve used "showing off" on him instead of the lootas so he can get 3 shots in a round).

i love all the mekguns (outside the bubblechucka),and they each have preferred targets and are effective for their points and make for good chaf and are hard to kill due to being individual models on the table top and having a decent amount of wounds (benefits of KFF helps too).these guns are my solutions to knights and anythig T8. though if i had to choose my favorite it would have to be the traktors. the auto hit and range makes them supreme for killing anything hard to hit (if you know your opponents have these units in his army,then always bring at least 4 traktors).

lootas are mvps,using both "more dakka" and "showing off" along with badmoons to become ALL THE DAKKA! the sheer amount of shots they can put out is staggering and can delete squads of elite infatrry (just have to get used to dividing shooting and what targets need what shots). also more dakka was great to allow them to shoot stealth squads off the objectives as you dont care about minus to hit when 5s and 6s always hit.

the 90 grots i have are dedicated for grotshiled and screening anything melee focused. they give me enough battalions for 18 cps to use the strats for max shooting for at least 2 rounds,and 2 rounds of massive shooting can be enough to turn the tide.

stormboys and defkoptas didnt get to do much as i pretty much wiped my opponent, so getting objectives wasn't that important.

the next game im planning to play with this list is dark eldar (need that to see how well it does vrs a fast melee list).

and illl try another game against that knight player to see how well my revised list does against majority T8.

if next game my lootas are threatened by melee im prepared to use a weirboy to "dajump" them away (if i save enough cps for when that hapens and use more dakka they wont have to worry about moving and shooting with hvy wpns).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/17 22:16:47


Post by: tneva82


 Grimskul wrote:

I can attest to porting grots as a valid tactic. Even in non-maelstrom games, having a pack of grots that your opponent forget about suddenly claim an abandoned or backfield objective is clutch and can be game-winning. Now it does bank on the game ending in that same turn usually, but it's much more useful than you'd think at first glance.


Well it's not super big thingie(that's why I only have 1 da jump there....Usually 2 is minimum with another spell only if I have 3 weirdboys) but tossing grots around is surprisingly useful anyway. I don't have many units to chase distant objectives anyway so these could be useful.

Generally games here are either maelstrom or mix of eternal war+maelstrom. No pure eternal war scenarios are generally played(at least I have yet to play one in over a year)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
geargutz wrote:
had 2 games recently that is helping refine a list i want to bring to a Washington tournament.

1st game was against mechanikus knights,1 castelan knight,2 other basic knights,and 2 helverin armigers. he had some sliied primaris marines for objective grabbing (to his credit he doesn't own impguard so he couldn't exploit the loyal 32 for cps).


That's...Lot. 2500 pts lists? 2k shouldn't fit. Finnish single codex tournament was played today with castellan+2 basic knights+2 armiger for 2k.

BTW 2 helverins or 2 warglaives or mix of both? Surely not 2 of both?


i brought a 25 badmoon loota star with enough grots to fill 3 batalions,a supa shocka, and 5 megatrak scrapjets and some wierdboyz for cheap hqs.and a morkanaut, i got beat,


Say hello to army knights love. Lootas aren't too scary for knights, megatrakks are blown easily and morkanat is also not much of a worry.
(and if i was desperate to kill more T8 models i wouldve used "showing off" on him instead of the lootas so he can get 3 shots in a round).


That's highyl debatable as neither is "shoot again" but more of "shoot 2nd time". Can't shoot 2nd time more than once. That would be shooting 3rd time.


i love all the mekguns (outside the bubblechucka),and they each have preferred targets and are effective for their points and make for good chaf and are hard to kill due to being individual models on the table top and having a decent amount of wounds (benefits of KFF helps too).these guns are my solutions to knights and anythig T8. though if i had to choose my favorite it would have to be the traktors. the auto hit and range makes them supreme for killing anything hard to hit (if you know your opponents have these units in his army,then always bring at least 4 traktors).


One big issue with them is that if you don't have much of other vehicles they get popped out real fast. I had 10 on saturday game and eventhough I seized initiave causing hefty damage and bit of luck(rolling double 1's with bright lance wounding, missing hits, rolling 3d3 for damage and failing to kill etc) they were popping up like balloons.

Traktor is bit of niche thing. Nice vs -x to hit(particularly -2) but vs regulars smasha guns are better.

lootas are mvps,using both "more dakka" and "showing off" along with badmoons to become ALL THE DAKKA! the sheer amount of shots they can put out is staggering and can delete squads of elite infatrry (just have to get used to dividing shooting and what targets need what shots). also more dakka was great to allow them to shoot stealth squads off the objectives as you dont care about minus to hit [when 5s and 6s always hit.


Mind you dark eldars(and generally eldar soups) will remove those in their first turn(so half the time before you get even to shoot) and many tyranid soups will do likewise.

the next game im planning to play with this list is dark eldar (need that to see how well it does vrs a fast melee list).


Prepare to loose lootas seeing they will negate your grot screen on 2+. Forget the melee. They will be shot to death.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/17 22:39:24


Post by: geargutz


I forgot the real name of the mini knights, so it was only 2 helverins. Also maybe I'm remembering wrong, I at least know there was 2 mini heverins, a Catalan, and a knight with some primaris.

Like I said, I have more games to play to test the mettle of my ork gun line. I have 90 grots between my loota and my opponent, if I go 2nd then I'll have to rely on them to keep my loota alive, as soon as they shoot they will hopefully murder most of their anti infantry and melee.

I'll of course let you guys know how it turns out.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/17 23:14:13


Post by: Ashkayel


Personally I can't keep up with all the discussions going on in this thread, so I really really like the first post of the first page. It's like a bible for me. Thanks Jidmah and all who participated, keep up the good work!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/17 23:21:18


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Jidmah - don't know if you missed it or just ignored above but I think the front page needs editing.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 00:02:23


Post by: geargutz


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Jidmah - don't know if you missed it or just ignored above but I think the front page needs editing.


Also, I dont know if someone's talked about it yet, but adding the vigilus detachments and their strats and wargear on the 1st page will help many determine if they need the book or not.

For example the supa shocka is superb and combined with bigkillaboss (a warlord trait I didn't see on the front page) makes it one of our best shooting options in my opinion.

Edit I appreciate your efforts jidmah, much better then the tactics thread i tried starting.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 00:14:20


Post by: flandarz


On that topic... Trukk analysis for the OP.

I'd put them at dark blue.

"The lowly Trukk is our cheapest transport option. It's easy to fit into lists, and is an effective way to get your Nobz, Tankbustas, and Flash Gitz up the field. But it lacks the staying power and damage potential of the Bonebreaker and Battlewagon, so if you want your transports to do more than move units, or survive after the initial clash, you should look elsewhere."


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 06:48:38


Post by: koooaei


Participated in a 10 man 750pt eternal war (ca missions) tourney with this list:

Bad moons.
Souped up sag mek - warlord
Biker boss with kombiskorcha blunderbuss and pk
Wierdboy
30 shootaboyz, bc nob
2*10 grots
Dakkajet with 6 supashootas
Trukk

Won vs:
1k sons+csm list with 3 dp, sorc and cultists. Cleared screens, shot down 1 dp and outscored.

Deathguards with dp, 2 tanks (those tough grinders with mortars and flamers), 2 helbrutes with twin laz and cultists. First turn killed a brute, than he shot a plane down to 3 hp with laz. But 2d and 3d turn wittled down 1 tank and another helbrute, lost most of the list but returned 30 boyz and eventually killed most of the stuff other than a dp. He was unkillable with 2+, 5++, 4+++ and mortal wounds on saved wounds. Still, outscored.

Necrons with an ark, fixer cryptek, overlord, 2*5 immortals, 10 warriors and 3 destroyers. Was lucky to get 1st turn, thus killed destroyers with combined shooting from sag, plane and trukk. Plane exploded and kilked 3 warriors. Than he one-shot a plane with an ark and halved the boy blob with immortals. Boss, remaining boyz and sag killed most of his infantry, not much reanimated and than he lost a warlord, remaining troops and gave up. Though, i could do nothing vs an ark. It absorbed all sag damage with a shield. But he was too demoralized to continue for some reason.

Last game vs monster mash nids. Flyrant, swarmlord, some large caster bug and a small flying brain caster. We got 1st turn and dropped flyrant to 3 wounds, he than advanced across the board and wrecked a trukk. Than we gak down the brain and flyrant. He than killed a boss with swarmlord and chopped down some boyz. Boyz struck in return. Eventually, swarmlord and large caster bug were brought down to 3 wounds and we were outscoring him, so nids conceded.

Ork victory.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 07:27:01


Post by: tneva82


geargutz wrote:
I forgot the real name of the mini knights, so it was only 2 helverins. Also maybe I'm remembering wrong, I at least know there was 2 mini heverins, a Catalan, and a knight with some primaris.

Like I said, I have more games to play to test the mettle of my ork gun line. I have 90 grots between my loota and my opponent, if I go 2nd then I'll have to rely on them to keep my loota alive, as soon as they shoot they will hopefully murder most of their anti infantry and melee.

I'll of course let you guys know how it turns out.


Thing is BOTH are correct names but different ones Helverin is the one with 2 super autocannons. Warglaive is one with rapid melta and chainsword.

Thing about 90 grots is they are useless against dark eldars, eldar soups and now tyranid soup as well. He shoots at lootas, you trigger grot screen, he says "no you don't" on 2+ negating the grot screen for turn and then vaporizes the whole mob. So unless you luck it and he rolls 1 the lootas gets deleted. Or do you think your T4 W1 orks will survive long vs all those poison shots without grot screen? Possibly rerolling 1's etc. I have been under face of DE fire and it's been awful firepower. Unless you weaken their firepower losing 300+ models in 5 turns isn't impossible. At least now you can actually do something rather than them simply parking where you can't assault and being behind -1 or -2 protection. But dark eldars are the ones where loota star cannot be relied because they can negate your grot screen so easily. So if you are starting you might get one round well(assuming he doesn't have CP to do the 4CP strategem twice to negate your more dakka making you hit on 6's) but if he goes first you can quite easily get entire mob get vaporized. Very annoying. Especially as dark eldars are soooo common and even craftworlds tends to conveniently have 3 flyers(good on their own as well) of correct kabal.

If somebody has good idea to deal with eldar soup I would like to hear. There's competive eldar soup player here so would like to try kicking them but struggling to come up with list that could work. Loota star can't be relied(unless I bring them in double and bring 2nd via deep strike. Lose 1, have 1 more. Not enough models for that). Traktor kannons could be good but alas I only have 4 and dark lances will mince meat 4 in no time. Other ideas? Also keep in mind assaulting can be tricky for several due to higher floors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 koooaei wrote:
Participated in a 10 man 750pt eternal war (ca missions) tourney with this list:

Bad moons.
Souped up sag mek - warlord
Biker boss with kombiskorcha blunderbuss and pk
Wierdboy
30 shootaboyz, bc nob
2*10 grots
Dakkajet with 6 supashootas
Trukk



Out of curiosity what was the role for trukk here? Overwatch eater? Objective grabber? I would have brought rather like 2 smasha guns instead but maybe I'm missing something.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 07:36:27


Post by: An Actual Englishman


geargutz wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Jidmah - don't know if you missed it or just ignored above but I think the front page needs editing.


Also, I dont know if someone's talked about it yet, but adding the vigilus detachments and their strats and wargear on the 1st page will help many determine if they need the book or not.

For example the supa shocka is superb and combined with bigkillaboss (a warlord trait I didn't see on the front page) makes it one of our best shooting options in my opinion.

Edit I appreciate your efforts jidmah, much better then the tactics thread i tried starting.

There's also been discussion of the Snazztrike and Ard as Nails warlord trait bumping that T up to 8 for a deffkilla but I'm not sure its a great thing. The Kult of Speed formation generally seems borked and and poorly written. I'm sure GW intended the fearless Bikers to last during the opponents turn also but poor writing has disallowed it. I have been toying with the idea of locking a Knight in combat with bikes (using the consolidate 2d6 strat) then you remember a Knight eats bikes for breakfast so it probably isn't the best idea.

Val Hefflefinger is using the Stompa mob, desperately trying to make that work and to be fair he has incredibly had some success (though in an admittedly smaller tournament setting).

The Dread mob opens up options we probably need to discuss further. Double shooting a Souped Up SAG Mek or Gork/Morkanaut? Am I the only one thinking of using the warlord trait to heal vehicles D3+1? Am I insane to consider it?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 08:36:57


Post by: Jidmah


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Jidmah - don't know if you missed it or just ignored above but I think the front page needs editing.


Probably missed it. It would be best to PM me if you want changes/add content to the first post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
geargutz wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Jidmah - don't know if you missed it or just ignored above but I think the front page needs editing.


Also, I dont know if someone's talked about it yet, but adding the vigilus detachments and their strats and wargear on the 1st page will help many determine if they need the book or not.

For example the supa shocka is superb and combined with bigkillaboss (a warlord trait I didn't see on the front page) makes it one of our best shooting options in my opinion.

Edit I appreciate your efforts jidmah, much better then the tactics thread i tried starting.


I don't have the time to do the write-up myself (I'd rather use that time to get my models painted ), so if anyone want's to do that feel free to PM me. I'll apply formatting, spelling and some redactional changes and put you on the awesome gitz list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
There's also been discussion of the Snazztrike and Ard as Nails warlord trait bumping that T up to 8 for a deffkilla but I'm not sure its a great thing.

I have found the difference between T7 and T8 on a character is almost neglectable, since the trike is rarely shot at by the really big guns or masses of S4 attacks. In addition, since he is only S7 he really needs that extra oomph from might is right, proper killy or brutal but kunnin'.

The Kult of Speed formation generally seems borked and and poorly written. I'm sure GW intended the fearless Bikers to last during the opponents turn also but poor writing has disallowed it. I have been toying with the idea of locking a Knight in combat with bikes (using the consolidate 2d6 strat) then you remember a Knight eats bikes for breakfast so it probably isn't the best idea.

You don't need to lock it into combat, that doesn't do jack anyways besides giving it another round of combat. just stay 1.0001" away from it and get your speed freeks around it - no movement for a turn and it's not terrible efficient at killing 2W models.
By far the best application for that stratagem is to arrest a single model from a nearby unit so it cannot fall back - this will protect you from shooting for a turn.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 11:13:32


Post by: Emicrania


The Souped SAG with killy reputation is insane. You have 50% chance to wound on 2+ anything 7 or less with no Saves allowed.
The only thing I'm not sure is if freebooterz is better than bad moons or not. Freebooterz you need to have the whole army in order to proc +1.
If my math is right ( and often is not) freebooterz trait would allow you to have 10% more chance to hit than bad moons.
Do we have any kind soul that could do the math on that ?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 11:18:20


Post by: tneva82


 Jidmah wrote:

You don't need to lock it into combat, that doesn't do jack anyways besides giving it another round of combat. just stay 1.0001" away from it and get your speed freeks around it - no movement for a turn and it's not terrible efficient at killing 2W models.
By far the best application for that stratagem is to arrest a single model from a nearby unit so it cannot fall back - this will protect you from shooting for a turn.


1" won't be good idea. Knights tends to be characters so all you accomplish is giving him round of shooting AND round of h2h in your turn when he heroic intervenes. Learned that the hard way

And guess idea was prevent him from falling back and shooting. Yes he'll stomp some bikes but then doesn't shoot next round. Want to face shooting+round of combat or 2 rounds of combat vs bikes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Emicrania wrote:
The Souped SAG with killy reputation is insane. You have 50% chance to wound on 2+ anything 7 or less with no Saves allowed.
The only thing I'm not sure is if freebooterz is better than bad moons or not. Freebooterz you need to have the whole army in order to proc +1.
If my math is right ( and often is not) freebooterz trait would allow you to have 10% more chance to hit than bad moons.
Do we have any kind soul that could do the math on that ?


vs T7 it's actually 42% chance to wound on 2+. You get +1(vs vehicle/monster) so S7 vs T7 is 4+. +1 to that=3+. Odds of rolling 7 or less(or 7+) is 58% so rolling 8 or more at 2d6 is 42%.

You get 28% bigger chance(or 12% depending on how you view it). 0.5 vs 0.38. 12% in absolute, 28% in relatives. But biggest issue for me on bad moon is death skull does that generally anyway(you aren't that likely rolling 2+ 1's) but can even reroll 2, 3 and 4(albeit less useful with relic) AND can reroll to wound roll AND damage roll as well. So for me it would be death skull or free boota. And since I don't have freebootas yet my 2 SAG's are in deathskull colours


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 12:00:05


Post by: geargutz


Spoiler:
tneva82 wrote:


Thing is BOTH are correct names but different ones Helverin is the one with 2 super autocannons. Warglaive is one with rapid melta and chainsword.

Thing about 90 grots is they are useless against dark eldars, eldar soups and now tyranid soup as well. He shoots at lootas, you trigger grot screen, he says "no you don't" on 2+ negating the grot screen for turn and then vaporizes the whole mob. So unless you luck it and he rolls 1 the lootas gets deleted. Or do you think your T4 W1 orks will survive long vs all those poison shots without grot screen? Possibly rerolling 1's etc. I have been under face of DE fire and it's been awful firepower. Unless you weaken their firepower losing 300+ models in 5 turns isn't impossible. At least now you can actually do something rather than them simply parking where you can't assault and being behind -1 or -2 protection. But dark eldars are the ones where loota star cannot be relied because they can negate your grot screen so easily. So if you are starting you might get one round well(assuming he doesn't have CP to do the 4CP strategem twice to negate your more dakka making you hit on 6's) but if he goes first you can quite easily get entire mob get vaporized. Very annoying. Especially as dark eldars are soooo common and even craftworlds tends to conveniently have 3 flyers(good on their own as well) of correct kabal.

If somebody has good idea to deal with eldar soup I would like to hear. There's competive eldar soup player here so would like to try kicking them but struggling to come up with list that could work. Loota star can't be relied(unless I bring them in double and bring 2nd via deep strike. Lose 1, have 1 more. Not enough models for that). Traktor kannons could be good but alas I only have 4 and dark lances will mince meat 4 in no time. Other ideas? Also keep in mind assaulting can be tricky for several due to higher floors.


it was the autocannon mini knights,super killy they are.

as far as deldar,i know of their ability to cancel out a strat, the most i can say to counter that is to deploy my lootas out of sight in and in cover,grots will have to stand on their own.

soon as my turn happens ill mob up (he can cancel that out if he wants,but will most likely want to cancel out another strat since my turns are filled with using many shooting strats),
then with da jump ill get the lootas in a good shooting spot. grots might be dead,but my 1st turn of shooting is important to try to kill as much critical enemy threats as possible. mekguns with kff suport will help,they at least dont rely on strats to be at their shooting.

if i had to guess on how to fight eldar soup,i might suggest maybe an antimeta list. bring units that dont rely on strats and have high toughness and many wounds that can be taken in decent numbers. .whether that be gorkanaights,scraptgets and kff support with traktors. i would suggest possibly bloodaxe, most eldar units can tie your units up in unwanted combats (dont need a gorkanaut to kill infantry). this is just a guess,and its rather anti metta,and i dont expect it to win in an anti knight meta (too much anti tank),but it might do well against eldar if you expect alot of them.

the tournament im going to had more eldar the last time i went,but for the past 3 years ive gone it has been filled with knights. the list im building can hopefully counter any knight list,but it might pull through eldar soup if i play it smart.

unfortunately i cant think of a list that would kill bothknights and eldar soup, but im gambling on this a little, hoping the tournament is close to what its always been, its not even that much of a competitive event,the tournament score is only 1/3rd of the pts,the other 3rds are sportsmanship and painting/presentation (still doesn't discourage the die hard itc pts farmers from attending)..


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 12:08:16


Post by: tneva82


geargutz wrote:
as far as deldar,i know of their ability to cancel out a strat, the most i can say to counter that is to deploy my lootas out of sight in and in cover,grots will have to stand on their own.


Problem with that is their super speed. They can get things into firing positions fast. and they need to kill 6 models from one and 1 from one and best you have is 9 lootas shooting with strategems. Killing 7 T4 wounds doesn't even require much firepower and with flyers, venoms etc should be pretty hard to avoid that firepower.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 12:38:35


Post by: geargutz


tneva82 wrote:
geargutz wrote:
as far as deldar,i know of their ability to cancel out a strat, the most i can say to counter that is to deploy my lootas out of sight in and in cover,grots will have to stand on their own.


Problem with that is their super speed. They can get things into firing positions fast. and they need to kill 6 models from one and 1 from one and best you have is 9 lootas shooting with strategems. Killing 7 T4 wounds doesn't even require much firepower and with flyers, venoms etc should be pretty hard to avoid that firepower.


welp,then im zogged then. dont know what to tell you,ill try it out,see how well i do, though what ill be playing against is pure deldar.

if i encounter eldar soup at the tournament then ill have to accept that loss (still try my hardest).

im not about to completely change my list drastically because of scary eldar soup. we can hope for GW nerfs to eldar,but im guessing that super unlikely,maybe an ork player will find the perfect anti eldarsoup list,but im guessing it will not be as efficient vrs other lists.

so i guess ill have to see how it goes. not much i can realy do. im pretty stubborn in my list building. im just glad that units i like and have been slowly collecting are competitive for once (lootas/mekguns), and im not about to take greentide just to follow the trend of "all da infatry and nutin else",im not a big greentide fan (like i said, im a little stubborn)(the greentide comment is an exaggeration,but its easy to fall into relying on the tried and tested ork boy,im just not a fan of running alot of models,my exception to that is my squig ton of grots of course).

not much i can do that the now competitive models i will be bringing are suddenly ineffective vrs one particular type of list. its going to be like that every edition. its usually eldar,but some army combo is almost unbeatable,and while we got a boost,orks arnt going to have an answer to every OP netlist,and our answer to it most likely wont be effective vrs other more common lists. such is the paper rock scissors way 40k plays,and i try hard to accept that hard fact,and i try to take my beatings as best i can,though its never easy.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 12:44:52


Post by: Emicrania


I smashed the eldari soup thanks to the freebooterz list from Ben Jurek. Can't recommend it enough. Completely functional without stratagems, a ton of Wounds on tough veichles, KFF for survivability and sooo much good shooting vs T6.
I dunno how would it perform vs a pure knight list that deny the +1, due to low model count, but I m a real fan of the list in any case .


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 13:33:55


Post by: koooaei


tneva82 wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 koooaei wrote:
Participated in a 10 man 750pt eternal war (ca missions) tourney with this list:

Bad moons.
Souped up sag mek - warlord
Biker boss with kombiskorcha blunderbuss and pk
Wierdboy
30 shootaboyz, bc nob
2*10 grots
Dakkajet with 6 supashootas
Trukk



Out of curiosity what was the role for trukk here? Overwatch eater? Objective grabber? I would have brought rather like 2 smasha guns instead but maybe I'm missing something.


It's a bit of everything. I put grots in there. At first it was an answer to helblasters auspexing and overwatching my meganobz to death. I had 2 trukks of grots to move forward turn 2, disembark, advance and eat all those plazma for the deepstriking meganobz. But than i simply liked this combo.
Sometimes also hide a wierdboy in there turn 1. It occasionally helps with losblocks. Theoretically, it could be used for the 3d6 charge strat. It's just an utility unit. Mek gunz are nice but trukks have their advantages.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 13:42:51


Post by: An Actual Englishman


tneva82 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:

You don't need to lock it into combat, that doesn't do jack anyways besides giving it another round of combat. just stay 1.0001" away from it and get your speed freeks around it - no movement for a turn and it's not terrible efficient at killing 2W models.
By far the best application for that stratagem is to arrest a single model from a nearby unit so it cannot fall back - this will protect you from shooting for a turn.


1" won't be good idea. Knights tends to be characters so all you accomplish is giving him round of shooting AND round of h2h in your turn when he heroic intervenes. Learned that the hard way

And guess idea was prevent him from falling back and shooting. Yes he'll stomp some bikes but then doesn't shoot next round. Want to face shooting+round of combat or 2 rounds of combat vs bikes?

Tneva has it right. Idea is to prevent the Knight from shooting, not restrict their movement. A Castellan is no joke in the combat phase, but they are much scarier in the shooting phase IMO.

No doubt the strat is also useful for surrounding other squads and tripointing other units also. That's certainly not in question.

I'll post my thoughts on the Kult of Speed detachment soon and allow people to critique here before I PM to you for integration on the first page Jidmah.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 13:50:36


Post by: PiñaColada


I have successfully 2d6" consolidated a Castellan once with my bikes and that basically won me the game (I also had my buffed wartrike, with some help in the shooting phase, bracket him). The castellan killed like 2-3 bikes in CC but was stuck.

That situation is a unicorn though. More of a fun thing that you might be able to pull off against an opponent once. Overall I don't really see the point of that detachment, it might come in handy if you really need to move up on the board I guess. Move 30", fire at full BS (Evil sunz) and then use "drive-by krumpin" to move another 30" and claim an objective/ movement block/linebreaker etc might have a niche use


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 14:04:49


Post by: Vineheart01


if bikes in general were better that detachment would be great.
Bikes are solidly "meh" atm. They can work, but boy do they suffer when something can counter them (which sadly is autocannon type stuff so its common)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 14:38:45


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Thoughts on Vigilus Kult of Speed detachment;

Cost - 1 CP to unlock.

It gives all "Speed Freeks" units the 'KULT OF SPEED' Keyword(s) which is pretty much every fast attack choice excluding Storm Boyz, Nobz on Bikes and the Deffkilla. Note that The Warboss on Bike cannot make use of this detachment, as they lack the Speed Freek keyword.

Warlord Trait -

"Quick Ladz!" - Friendly KULT OF SPEED units within 12" of your Warlord in the morale phase automatically pass Morale tests if they Advanced in the same turn.
- Unfortunately the rules writers put "turn" instead of "battle round" hence this ability is practically useless. It only operates in your Morale phase (not your opponenets) and it's unlikely you're going to be taking a ton of casualties then anyway. Not to mention the majority of "Kult of Speed" units will be single models that can't lose any members due to morale anyway. A double fail. Don't take this.

Shiny Gubbinz -

"Skargrim's Snazztrike" - Deffkilla Wartrike only, the bearer gains +1 T and a 5++.
- T7 vs T6 can be nice and the 5++ is welcome but in reality the Cybork Body is better. The Deffkilla Wartrike tends to race up the board and get into combat ASAP. Few weapons are affected by the difference between T6 and T7 and do you really want to invest a warlord trait to make a Deffkilla T8? No, no you don't. Our codex has enough strong relics, perhaps if you take the Cybork Body on something else and want to try and make a tanky warlord it might be worth it, but consider those traits and relics you won't be taking.

Stratagems -

"Turbo Boostas" - 2CP - Use this stratagem at the start of your Movement phase. Pick a KULT OF SPEED unit from your army, if that unit Advances this phase, double that unit's Move characteristic instead of rolling a dice.
- Useful to guarantee a first turn charge. Also useful to stack with the Evil Sunz "Drive by Krumpin" stratagem to get exactly where you need to be, quickly. Allows our fastest vehicles the ability to fly across the board, which can also be useful late game to grab/contest objectives or simply keep a unit alive. Probably not worth 2CP in most game situations but it may occasionally win you the game.

"Charge through 'em!" - 2CP - Use this stratagem before a KULT OF SPEED unit from your army makes a consolidation move. That unit consolidates 2d6" instead of 3".
- Probably the best thing about this entire detachment. A 2d6" consolidation move can be huge however it can also be 2". It's very likely you'll be able to consolidate further than the standard 3", however, because the variance on the consolidation move is so vast (2"-12") there is a discrepancy between how useful this stratagem will be one use to the next. If you roll a 5"+ consolidation move it is likely you open up possibilities to tie units in combat, tri-point them, or otherwise deny the opponent movement, which can be game winning. If you roll higher still then you can ruin your opponents plans on your first turn and potentially (though this won't be obvious at the time) win the game. You'll need a large group (or 2) of Warbikers or Nob Bikers ideally, both of which are expensive units (the Nob Bikers obscenely so) which means you're investing into this stratagem. If your opponent deploys well and reads your plans, they can counter them accordingly also. It is likely this won't work against GSC unless they go first because of their deployment shenanigans.

Overall Thoughts -

For me the Kult of Speed offers 2 semi-interesting and semi-useful stratagems and that is it. Both stratagems require investment into a sub optimal unit (because most/all Speed Freek units are sub optimal), but they can allow those units to perform much better than they normally would and in some cases win you the game. The problem for me is the cost (1CP + 2CP stratagem cost) and the variance. Both stratagems can be game winning but they can also do absolutely nothing or put you in a worse position than you'd be without using them. They certainly require a skilled player to make best use.
Do not take the Warlord Trait. The rulebook ones are better.
Take the Snazztrike only if you have a very specific task for your Deffkilla that requires the extra Toughness.

E - glad to see that my thoughts are somewhat echoed with Pina and Vineheart above. Particularly as I wrote this "blind" and had no idea you had posted


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 15:27:56


Post by: Vineheart01


Pretty much what you said.
Wartrike being T7 helps in some situations but i even stopped giving him Supa Cybork because every time he DOES take damage he just goes poof because either whats hitting him is wicked strong or i wasnt able to put something infront of him after combat and he got shot.
Ive tried the relic bike and even Bad Moonz 4++ and Supa Cybork, dude survived maybe 1 more units worth of shooting at the cost of Might is Right. Without bad moonz trait and taking Relic bike instead of Supa Cybork, he just didnt get overkilled but still died in the same number of units attacking him.
Course this doesnt help that people in my area think hes hyper deadly for some reason. He's not, he's average w/o Might is Right and pretty decent w/ it but not amazing. Only a real problem if i can manage to Fist of Gork him too.

Ive used a warbike squad with that special detachment 3 times and 2 times i didnt even get to attempt anything as an autocannon ball just vaporized them - despite KFF and painboy around - because i didnt get first turn so i couldnt trigger the -1 to hit stratagem since they havnt moved yet (still pissed how that is triggered....)

edit: before you say "deploy out of sight" you try and deploy a footprint that huge completely out of sight when the main autocannon threat is a leviathan lol


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 15:33:39


Post by: PiñaColada


Good write-up AAE!

Vineheart: Why do you take might is right on the deffkilla? I always go with brutal but kunnin'. Might is right is slightly better assuming you don't get fists of gork off but if you do then brutal but kunnin seems a lot more viable IMO. D3+1 damage is just so much tastier than flat D3 and 7 attacks rerolling 1's is basically the same as 8 attacks. S9 or 10 isn't a huge deal, especially with rerolling wounds..


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/18 15:49:40


Post by: Vineheart01


Generally im playing Bad Moonz, 70-30 shooty/assaulty. I used Might is Right because often i end up slamming into a T7 target, which wounding on 4s even with a reroll isnt very favorable. Never took Big Killa Boss for that scenario because its the same effect in the end and i get another attack while also wounding on 2s against most everything else. I usually forget Brutal but Kunnin even exists tbh lol

But this is all in the past now since i started using the supa-SAG. Supa-SAG w/o Big Killa Boss is a crime and a half.... all it took was 1 game with that + the trait to convince me i was an idiot not doing that in the past 5 games i had the supa-sag anyway. Shokk-ingly reliable anti-big-thing attack.
I either dont even run the wartrike now or if i do he's there for the aura, not his attack power.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 11:52:08


Post by: wacherax


What do you think of 5 flash gitz on a warkopta? For 233 points you have a multi-purpose unit that can deepstrike or start in the far edge of the table and move to the center (where you want to have your gitz). In addition you can use Long Uncontrolled Bursts (1CP) in the kopta, which been open-topped transfers to the gitz inside the kopta, making it it really interesting in a Freebooterz army.




No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 13:01:43


Post by: G00fySmiley


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Thoughts on Vigilus Kult of Speed detachment;

Cost - 1 CP to unlock.

It gives all "Speed Freeks" units the 'KULT OF SPEED' Keyword(s) which is pretty much every fast attack choice excluding Storm Boyz, Nobz on Bikes and the Deffkilla. Note that The Warboss on Bike cannot make use of this detachment, as they lack the Speed Freek keyword.

Warlord Trait -

"Quick Ladz!" - Friendly KULT OF SPEED units within 12" of your Warlord in the morale phase automatically pass Morale tests if they Advanced in the same turn.
- Unfortunately the rules writers put "turn" instead of "battle round" hence this ability is practically useless. It only operates in your Morale phase (not your opponenets) and it's unlikely you're going to be taking a ton of casualties then anyway. Not to mention the majority of "Kult of Speed" units will be single models that can't lose any members due to morale anyway. A double fail. Don't take this.

Shiny Gubbinz -

"Skargrim's Snazztrike" - Deffkilla Wartrike only, the bearer gains +1 T and a 5++.
- T7 vs T6 can be nice and the 5++ is welcome but in reality the Cybork Body is better. The Deffkilla Wartrike tends to race up the board and get into combat ASAP. Few weapons are affected by the difference between T6 and T7 and do you really want to invest a warlord trait to make a Deffkilla T8? No, no you don't. Our codex has enough strong relics, perhaps if you take the Cybork Body on something else and want to try and make a tanky warlord it might be worth it, but consider those traits and relics you won't be taking.

Stratagems -

"Turbo Boostas" - 2CP - Use this stratagem at the start of your Movement phase. Pick a KULT OF SPEED unit from your army, if that unit Advances this phase, double that unit's Move characteristic instead of rolling a dice.
- Useful to guarantee a first turn charge. Also useful to stack with the Evil Sunz "Drive by Krumpin" stratagem to get exactly where you need to be, quickly. Allows our fastest vehicles the ability to fly across the board, which can also be useful late game to grab/contest objectives or simply keep a unit alive. Probably not worth 2CP in most game situations but it may occasionally win you the game.

"Charge through 'em!" - 2CP - Use this stratagem before a KULT OF SPEED unit from your army makes a consolidation move. That unit consolidates 2d6" instead of 3".
- Probably the best thing about this entire detachment. A 2d6" consolidation move can be huge however it can also be 2". It's very likely you'll be able to consolidate further than the standard 3", however, because the variance on the consolidation move is so vast (2"-12") there is a discrepancy between how useful this stratagem will be one use to the next. If you roll a 5"+ consolidation move it is likely you open up possibilities to tie units in combat, tri-point them, or otherwise deny the opponent movement, which can be game winning. If you roll higher still then you can ruin your opponents plans on your first turn and potentially (though this won't be obvious at the time) win the game. You'll need a large group (or 2) of Warbikers or Nob Bikers ideally, both of which are expensive units (the Nob Bikers obscenely so) which means you're investing into this stratagem. If your opponent deploys well and reads your plans, they can counter them accordingly also. It is likely this won't work against GSC unless they go first because of their deployment shenanigans.

Overall Thoughts -

For me the Kult of Speed offers 2 semi-interesting and semi-useful stratagems and that is it. Both stratagems require investment into a sub optimal unit (because most/all Speed Freek units are sub optimal), but they can allow those units to perform much better than they normally would and in some cases win you the game. The problem for me is the cost (1CP + 2CP stratagem cost) and the variance. Both stratagems can be game winning but they can also do absolutely nothing or put you in a worse position than you'd be without using them. They certainly require a skilled player to make best use.
Do not take the Warlord Trait. The rulebook ones are better.
Take the Snazztrike only if you have a very specific task for your Deffkilla that requires the extra Toughness.

E - glad to see that my thoughts are somewhat echoed with Pina and Vineheart above. Particularly as I wrote this "blind" and had no idea you had posted


I disagree on wartrike w/ "Skargrim's Snazztrike" - Deffkilla Wartrike only, the bearer gains +1 T and a 5++. It with ard as nails for a T8 wartrike is not something to take lightly. suddenly when tehey do clear the chaff to shoot your sub 10 wound charagter Str 8 is now wounding on 4's, so plasma has to risk gets hot, str 4 is not wounding on 6's so most weapons can barely scratch the paint. I do agree the T6-7 is not signifigant enough of a step to be worth it... but stacking for T8 I think will do very well.

Though note I have not yet tried it more a academic guess as to it being a viable option. I will likely try it in the coming next few weeks.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 13:21:48


Post by: Vineheart01


Loss of other perks kinda kills that idea imo.

Deffkilla is not exactly a powerhouse. 5 S7 Ap-2 D3 damage attacks are neat, but not 120pts neat.
And his shooting doesnt exist. Its literally a pre-charge attack because its so piss poor short.

So yeah, becoming T8 is great, except you have no real power behind it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 13:35:01


Post by: G00fySmiley


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Loss of other perks kinda kills that idea imo.

Deffkilla is not exactly a powerhouse. 5 S7 Ap-2 D3 damage attacks are neat, but not 120pts neat.
And his shooting doesnt exist. Its literally a pre-charge attack because its so piss poor short.

So yeah, becoming T8 is great, except you have no real power behind it.


his shooting is basically screen removal if you are lucky. pepper a unit screening something important and then its just enough to wipe a few remaining models in front with flamer and boomstick.

that Str7 ap-2 klaw is hitting on 2's and rerolling wounds so he tends to do work in my experience. Though the Warboss on a bike with the killa claw still does more dmg overall against things like knights.

I am optimistic T8 may be worth it, but as always until I put it on the table it is just speculation and if it preforms poorly after a few matches will retire the idea and say "cool on paper, not in practice"


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 14:22:32


Post by: flandarz


I think it could be ok, but I think a more durable Wartrike would still be in Badmoonz, with TBATCB and Supa Cybork. I'll take a 4++/5+++ with T6 over T8 any day.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 14:53:53


Post by: snakeeater


Buddies, how are you?

Im will play tau tomorrow at 1500 points.

I have a list with 2 detachments (evil suns and bad moons) (5+5cps) 40 grots, 60 boyz, 2 weirboyz, 1 deffkilla, 5 warbikes (1 nob) 5 koptas (3+2 koptas) and 2 dakkajets.

Do you have any advice to play with tau? what should i tend to do, and what not. Hope my ork budies could help me.

Sorry for my rusty english


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 15:42:49


Post by: mhalko1


snakeeater wrote:
Buddies, how are you?

Im will play tau tomorrow at 1500 points.

I have a list with 2 detachments (evil suns and bad moons) (5+5cps) 40 grots, 60 boyz, 2 weirboyz, 1 deffkilla, 5 warbikes (1 nob) 5 koptas (3+2 koptas) and 2 dakkajets.

Do you have any advice to play with tau? what should i tend to do, and what not. Hope my ork budies could help me.

Sorry for my rusty english


Just my opinion but id drop the dakkajets and grab more units that can book it across the field.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 15:55:57


Post by: snakeeater


mhalko1 wrote:
snakeeater wrote:
Buddies, how are you?

Im will play tau tomorrow at 1500 points.

I have a list with 2 detachments (evil suns and bad moons) (5+5cps) 40 grots, 60 boyz, 2 weirboyz, 1 deffkilla, 5 warbikes (1 nob) 5 koptas (3+2 koptas) and 2 dakkajets.

Do you have any advice to play with tau? what should i tend to do, and what not. Hope my ork budies could help me.

Sorry for my rusty english


Just my opinion but id drop the dakkajets and grab more units that can book it across the field.


Which ones do you sugest?? I really do not know what else i could put. I have a lot of models, but my plan for the dakkajets its to shoot the firewarriors, and if needed make it shoot it twice. They are 18 shoots s6 ap-1 d1 at 4+ with dakka daka for 148 pts each and it has fly -1 to be hitted.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 16:13:38


Post by: mhalko1


snakeeater wrote:
mhalko1 wrote:
snakeeater wrote:
Buddies, how are you?

Im will play tau tomorrow at 1500 points.

I have a list with 2 detachments (evil suns and bad moons) (5+5cps) 40 grots, 60 boyz, 2 weirboyz, 1 deffkilla, 5 warbikes (1 nob) 5 koptas (3+2 koptas) and 2 dakkajets.

Do you have any advice to play with tau? what should i tend to do, and what not. Hope my ork budies could help me.

Sorry for my rusty english


Just my opinion but id drop the dakkajets and grab more units that can book it across the field.


Which ones do you sugest?? I really do not know what else i could put. I have a lot of models, but my plan for the dakkajets its to shoot the firewarriors, and if needed make it shoot it twice. They are 18 shoots s6 ap-1 d1 at 4+ with dakka daka for 148 pts each and it has fly -1 to be hitted.


you could grab more troops or teleporta some dreads/BW full of boys


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 16:14:59


Post by: PiñaColada


I don't play against Tau all that often so I can't give you any real strategies against them (other than to charge them from out of LoS).

But I wouldn't drop the dakkajets, use them (along with "long, uncontrolled bursts") to devastate his drones.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 16:18:28


Post by: snakeeater


PiñaColada wrote:
I don't play against Tau all that often so I can't give you any real strategies against them (other than to charge them from out of LoS).

But I wouldn't drop the dakkajets, use them (along with "long, uncontrolled bursts") to devastate his drones.


And what will you use buddy? im short of ideas. I think thtat anything i can put he can take it out very easily... :( I think what hurts me the most its his overwatch

(sorry for my english)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 16:22:25


Post by: Vineheart01


Dont forget all suits except Broadsides have the "Fly" keyword too.

So Dakkajets can technically beat the snot out of crisis suits too if needed, though i'd rather go after a big drone bubble or firewarrior fortress first.

My only beef with that list is the Dakkajets are the ONLY target for anti-vehicle weapons, and theyre tissue paper. Im not sure what you could bring instead though unless you axed the bikers too (Broadsides will mulch bikers fyi). Thats only ~290pts to work with if you cut the dakkajets, not that much you could bring other than just more bikers/boyz and even with what i just said about dakkajets being tissue i dont think that'd be a better choice. Tau in general will delete boyz and bikers easily.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 16:23:03


Post by: snakeeater


mhalko1 wrote:
snakeeater wrote:
mhalko1 wrote:
snakeeater wrote:
Buddies, how are you?

Im will play tau tomorrow at 1500 points.

I have a list with 2 detachments (evil suns and bad moons) (5+5cps) 40 grots, 60 boyz, 2 weirboyz, 1 deffkilla, 5 warbikes (1 nob) 5 koptas (3+2 koptas) and 2 dakkajets.

Do you have any advice to play with tau? what should i tend to do, and what not. Hope my ork budies could help me.

Sorry for my rusty english


Just my opinion but id drop the dakkajets and grab more units that can book it across the field.


Which ones do you sugest?? I really do not know what else i could put. I have a lot of models, but my plan for the dakkajets its to shoot the firewarriors, and if needed make it shoot it twice. They are 18 shoots s6 ap-1 d1 at 4+ with dakka daka for 148 pts each and it has fly -1 to be hitted.


you could grab more troops or teleporta some dreads/BW full of boys


Interesting... i will think about putting 3 dreads or the bw full of boyz (or nobs) but wont they be easy to kill on overwatch???


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
Dont forget all suits except Broadsides have the "Fly" keyword too.

So Dakkajets can technically beat the snot out of crisis suits too if needed, though i'd rather go after a big drone bubble or firewarrior fortress first.

My only beef with that list is the Dakkajets are the ONLY target for anti-vehicle weapons, and theyre tissue paper. Im not sure what you could bring instead though unless you axed the bikers too (Broadsides will mulch bikers fyi)


This is what i was thinking when i choose them. This and his shooting capacity


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 16:34:20


Post by: Vineheart01


Unless you charge a crisis blob of fusionspam i'd be surprised if a battlewagon (or bonebreaker, which is better if you do nobs) dies in overwatch. Its tough enough where the high rate of fire weapons dont wound it reliably.
Nobz, yeah, they'd get clobbered unless said wagon ate the overwatch first (remember you cant overwatch if you are in combat and unless the codex changed it and im unaware of it Tau cannot "share overwatch" multiple times either).
Which also goes into the other reason for keeping the dakkajets: there are things you do NOT want to charge. Broadsides clumped up together, huge firewarrior blobs, or fusion/plasma spam crisis suits of sizable numbers are a BIG nono with boyz/nobz to charge. Dakkajets can reliably kill most of them w/o charging.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 16:57:36


Post by: snakeeater


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Unless you charge a crisis blob of fusionspam i'd be surprised if a battlewagon (or bonebreaker, which is better if you do nobs) dies in overwatch. Its tough enough where the high rate of fire weapons dont wound it reliably.
Nobz, yeah, they'd get clobbered unless said wagon ate the overwatch first (remember you cant overwatch if you are in combat and unless the codex changed it and im unaware of it Tau cannot "share overwatch" multiple times either).
Which also goes into the other reason for keeping the dakkajets: there are things you do NOT want to charge. Broadsides clumped up together, huge firewarrior blobs, or fusion/plasma spam crisis suits of sizable numbers are a BIG nono with boyz/nobz to charge. Dakkajets can reliably kill most of them w/o charging.



Thanks Vineheart! you gave me some elements to think about it


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 18:11:56


Post by: russellmoo


I think adding in a battlewagon would be a good addition. Not sure what you would take out of the list, but having a battlewagon with some nobz in it will help force some hard choices when it comes to shooting priority


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 18:19:13


Post by: flandarz


Since Tau tend to have a lot of units with the "Fly" keyword, and scary overwatch, I'd drop a mob of Boyz and bring some Traktor Guns with you. When it comes to their OW, most of their units with FTGG have weaker guns, so I'd also drop the Koptas and bring some MANz.

That's all the advice I have for ya, unfortunately.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 18:35:33


Post by: xlDuke


Just a quick note - you can't use Showin' Off to shoot a Dakkajet twice, the stratagem is only for Infantry units.

For Tau I would say you want to prioritise getting rid of as many Drones as possible as early as you can, after that I would prioritise the Firewarriors and sources of Markerlights. Drones can take damage for other nearby units (Infantry and Battlesuits primarily) and massed Firewarrior combined with his other units can stop your charges dead in their tracks. Dakkajets will be great for killing Firewarrior and Drones if you go first, if you don't go first and you're not out of range they will be gone in the blink of an eye.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 19:45:18


Post by: tneva82


Got game against new player with blood angels. Relic sag did it's job blowikg up death company dred, vindicator and predator baal. Could have been better had i shot tank bustas at dred first. Now those had no vehicle target. Won 9-7. Forgot mob of evi' sxns to reserve but didn't matter. Having +1 to wound vs vehicle on sag meant relic klaw boss didn't take out big dread in one round.

Nicesag combo though rolling was over avergage.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 20:22:37


Post by: Grimskul


tneva82 wrote:
Got game against new player with blood angels. Relic sag did it's job blowikg up death company dred, vindicator and predator baal. Could have been better had i shot tank bustas at dred first. Now those had no vehicle target. Won 9-7. Forgot mob of evi' sxns to reserve but didn't matter. Having +1 to wound vs vehicle on sag meant relic klaw boss didn't take out big dread in one round.

Nicesag combo though rolling was over avergage.


It's those above average rolls that really play an important psychological factor against opponents though, as they'll mainly remember the times you rolled above 10 for strength and you oneshot their centerpiece models. After something like that, I've noticed my opponents overreact in deployment based on where my SAG Mek is, and even make it a priority to try and remove him, making it easy to bait or counter-deploy what he uses to try and get at him.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 20:39:48


Post by: mhalko1


tneva82 wrote:
Got game against new player with blood angels. Relic sag did it's job blowikg up death company dred, vindicator and predator baal. Could have been better had i shot tank bustas at dred first. Now those had no vehicle target. Won 9-7. Forgot mob of evi' sxns to reserve but didn't matter. Having +1 to wound vs vehicle on sag meant relic klaw boss didn't take out big dread in one round.

Nicesag combo though rolling was over avergage.


Nice. I had 3 games with one last weekend. 2/3 games he was amazing rolling S7 or higher. the 2nd game I played and the terrible one, he rolled snake eyes for strength 2 turns in a row. All 3 games and he didn't get an 11 or 12 for Strength. Still managed to wreak havoc though in the games he did well. Ran him as Deathskulls to reroll 1 hit roll and 1 wound roll and 1 damage roll. A couple times I turned a 1 damage on a Carnifex into 6 damage. My opponent was blown by this.

2 games against nids, 1 against marines. And the games against nids were before I saw the post about giving him the warlord trait for +1 to wound.



Now these 3 same games I also ran a morkanaut. (I didn't change my list at all from game 1-2, and only slightly in game 3) HE DID WORK! I was using More Dakka on him and I had maybe 3 or 4 Kustom Mega Zappa Hits a Turn thanks to 5+ guaranteed hitting. Plus him being Deathskulls really helped. Granted having big bug targets helped his output as I rerolled a 1 damage on overwatch on the Swarmlord into a 6.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/03/19 20:39:51


Post by: Vineheart01


Hell i HAVNT gotten an 11/12 with my supa sag in a game yet, but my friends know what it does if i do and they still tend to avoid the SAG at all costs.
Even had one game where my opponent deepstriked two assault marines to the side of me (15" away from the SAG thanks to grot screens) to get rid of it. Ended up doing Green Tide on one of my boyz squads to counter that play, but it was hilarious to see him dedicate so much to taking out that model.
if it wasnt my warlord i probably would have just let him take it. No objective under him and only vehicle still alive was a 1w Leviathan that had a Morkanaut infront of it anyway. But gotta save da boss!

Had several times where i rolled boxcars in pre-8th but not in 8th. My luck refuses to roll it now that it works on 2 die results instead of 1 lol