Ever since the new codex I have been obsessed with the squighogs and making a competitive krumpin' army. Here is the current version of my army that is focused around an Alpha and Beta Strike.
2k Points, 6CP to start
Goff Patrol:
Warboss in MA (Ard as Nails, Super Cybork) (Trukkboy)
Weirdboy
10x Beast Snagga Boyz
4x Squighog w/ BS
Secondaries:
Engage or Stranglehold
Warp Ritual or Banners
Kill or Mission Secondaries
The idea is simple, Killrigs and Trukks start on the line and 20 Kommandos with Snikkrot are forward deployed for a T1 charge. If we win the coinflip and go first, we Waaagh and the kommado krew, boyz and killrigs are all positioned to advance and charge for a T1 charge. If opponent goes first, they have to devote a ton of shooting to the kommandos that are positioned on one flank. Charging them is not an option due to the new Suprize! strategem. The squighogs and those units that couldn't make a charge in Turn 1 are positioned to clean up Round 2 as the opponent attempts to deal with the Turn 1 chargers. Much like Semper's Alphork lists, scoring secondary is far less important than getting stuck in with as many units as possible. Everything advances up the board except the squigbuggies, and after trukks have expelled their payload, they can be used to hold objectives or tie up additional units next turn.
This army is all about board control and I have found that Warp Ritual is relatively easy to score if my enemy does not have a psyker heavy army. With the prevalence of GK and TS people are often opting not to take a psyker at all, and with my killrigs that is not an option for me. Against, an army with good deny options, the Weirdboy can also be used to Da Jump a unit of squighogs to apply additional charge pressure.
Tell me what you think! I absolutely love this codex.
Big Mek Sparknutz wrote: ... they have to devote a ton of shooting to the kommandos that are positioned on one flank. Charging them is not an option due to the new Suprize! strategem.
The warlord and main detachment are Goff right?
Then I don't think you can use Blood Axe stratagem sadly. :(
Big Mek Sparknutz wrote: ... they have to devote a ton of shooting to the kommandos that are positioned on one flank. Charging them is not an option due to the new Suprize! strategem.
The warlord and main detachment are Goff right?
Then I don't think you can use Blood Axe stratagem sadly. :(
Actually the Octarius book specifically states you only need to have a Blood Axe detachment to have access to the strategems.
Big Mek Sparknutz wrote: Actually the Octarius book specifically states you only need to have a Blood Axe detachment to have access to the strategems.
Really ?!!
*Computing furiously the endless possibilities..
What about the relics?
I always imagined having a independant bloodaxe detachement for holding the DZ and shooting from far away.
With the built-in cover, Duk an'Kovva, the strat Spotted'em! , Speshul Ammo,.. it could actually be reality.
Adding the Fight detecta would be cherry on the cake lol
For your alphork list, I noticed you dont run any warbosses on warbikes. I know you need the mega armored or regular warboss to call the WAAAAGH. Was wondering why you didnt use the warbike option in one patrol since he's same price as a mega armored boss but with a guaranteed 20" move, easier to hide and move around obstacles, and can be given the killa/brutal but kunnin trait. I wouldnt run two, but it seems better than a boss in a trukk running BBK and Killa Klaw for only a few points more.
I feel like youve explained why but I just couldnt find it through 60 pages, so if you did already my bad.
For your alphork list, I noticed you dont run any warbosses on warbikes. I know you need the mega armored or regular warboss to call the WAAAAGH. Was wondering why you didnt use the warbike option in one patrol since he's same price as a mega armored boss but with a guaranteed 20" move, easier to hide and move around obstacles, and can be given the killa/brutal but kunnin trait. I wouldnt run two, but it seems better than a boss in a trukk running BBK and Killa Klaw for only a few points more.
I feel like youve explained why but I just couldnt find it through 60 pages, so if you did already my bad.
Footboss gives +1 to hit in melee to Core and Characters and he wants that aura around to support the other alpha strike elements of his list, and having three footbosses maximizes the coverage he can get on it.
Jidmah wrote: Unironically, one of the best parts of the new codex is Semper finally being happy about the state of the army.
Well, happier than I have been since 4th The new codex delivers a lot while taking little in return. I thought 8th was the best since 4th as well, and 9th seems to be better in many ways. With that said, I still think there is a lot of room for improvement. The morale issue for most of our units is kind of telling here, especially with the new releases showing that most other armies are still not going to give a fig about Morale. Custodes going to LD11 for instance. But overall, I am rather happy with this codex, I wish a few things were better but I like the fact that we aren't hamstrung into a single style of play. You can play Buggies, speedfreakz, elite, the new beast style or my Alphork strike
Be careful. Your Alphork list suffers with one big issue. If you krump everybody T1, you have nothing to do for the rest of the time limit for the game
Joking aside, I was rather bored at the last tournament. All my games ended turn 1 and turn 2 so I was stuck waiting for 1+ hour for my next matchup each time. Got to talk to some people for a bit which was nice. Also, I was absolutely shocked at how slow some people play. Keep in mind this was a FLGS Tournament so it wasn't filled with GT players. But on every single turn at least half the games didn't get all of turn 3 in. And these games weren't filled with horde players either, kinda shocking as i said.
You have a valid point considering the army of renown rules giving an extra 3 attacks per model.
However, the army of renown gives a strong point in favor of the warbikes by making them obsec. Why not use both units, in that case? For me, the appeal of the koptas is the fact that they can fly.
I'll be honest, I can count on one hand the # of times Obsec has actually mattered in any of my tournament games. I'm very tempted by the army of renown, but its kind of a win/lose because you gain an extra attack but lose the Goff buffs. So its more of a side grade than an actual upgrade. I think the army of renown is going to be more of a minor upgrade to the Freeboota lists and maybe some of the more "for fun" lists. The loss in damage output for the durability boost isn't that great for my style of play.
For your alphork list, I noticed you dont run any warbosses on warbikes. I know you need the mega armored or regular warboss to call the WAAAAGH. Was wondering why you didnt use the warbike option in one patrol since he's same price as a mega armored boss but with a guaranteed 20" move, easier to hide and move around obstacles, and can be given the killa/brutal but kunnin trait. I wouldnt run two, but it seems better than a boss in a trukk running BBK and Killa Klaw for only a few points more.
I feel like youve explained why but I just couldnt find it through 60 pages, so if you did already my bad.
He doesn't synergize well with the alphork strike, his only use would be as a 20'+2D6 melee beat stick turn 1...which don't get me wrong, is amazing, but I have 3 Trukk boyz, 3 kommandos, 3 units of bikes/koptas doing this already. I like the 1, 2 punch combo of the alphork strike hitting turn 1 and turn 2 the warbosses show up and start krumpin anything durable enough to have survived turn 1.
I have been playing with the idea of taking one instead of the megaboss, but I don't really want to mess with success right now And its also really fun to inform opponents that your Megaboss has a 1+ armor save
Oh yeah I figured as much. My plan was to use a regular boss and mega armored boss like you are in the trukks, and have the warboss on warbike be a sort of fire brigade unit. Unlike the trukk bosses who have to sit in the truck for a turn then disembark, he can be a lot less predictable. Since I was going to have two other warbosses anyways I didnt see a need for a 3rd boss giving a hit aura. But I see where youre coming from. I think his biggest benefit is the flexibility and mobility he gives you, and I would only ever run one. The foot bosses definitely hit harder and can be more durable
That said Im running blood axes so my setup is definitely different than yours. I also have options like snikrot to buff the kommandos if need be which makes me a bit less reliant on bosses in trukks. The boss on bike is also a very attractive for Blood Axes since I can fall back 14" in any direction and pick another target if his current combat is just in the mop up phase. With Goffs I could see him getting bogged down in something hes not as useful against.
I will say the first time I got to try a sort of variant of your list it was an absolute blast. I also tried the big choppa trukk nobz and that was a hoot as well. It is absolutely bonkers how aggressive you can be and basically sums up why I hate the new smaller tables perfectly as an IG player but love it as orks I look forward to playing with it more and seeing where you take your idea. Im kind of surprised we havent seen it pop up more yet.
Be careful. Your Alphork list suffers with one big issue. If you krump everybody T1, you have nothing to do for the rest of the time limit for the game
Joking aside, I was rather bored at the last tournament. All my games ended turn 1 and turn 2 so I was stuck waiting for 1+ hour for my next matchup each time. Got to talk to some people for a bit which was nice. Also, I was absolutely shocked at how slow some people play. Keep in mind this was a FLGS Tournament so it wasn't filled with GT players. But on every single turn at least half the games didn't get all of turn 3 in. And these games weren't filled with horde players either, kinda shocking as i said.
Joking aside, that is the reason, why I still looking how to win via secondaries. Not via alphastrike. I like it. I' m enjoying it.
Be careful. Your Alphork list suffers with one big issue. If you krump everybody T1, you have nothing to do for the rest of the time limit for the game
Joking aside, I was rather bored at the last tournament. All my games ended turn 1 and turn 2 so I was stuck waiting for 1+ hour for my next matchup each time. Got to talk to some people for a bit which was nice. Also, I was absolutely shocked at how slow some people play. Keep in mind this was a FLGS Tournament so it wasn't filled with GT players. But on every single turn at least half the games didn't get all of turn 3 in. And these games weren't filled with horde players either, kinda shocking as i said.
Joking aside, that is the reason, why I still looking how to win via secondaries. Not via alphastrike. I like it. I' m enjoying it.
Ah you meant from a competitive stand point. Well, its always good to clarify with judges before hand, but generally, if your opponent concedes the judge rules you get full points. Primaries its easy to justify since you control all points, and secondaries, I general choose ones which require actions or killing things, depends entirely on who I am going against.
Be careful. Your Alphork list suffers with one big issue. If you krump everybody T1, you have nothing to do for the rest of the time limit for the game
Joking aside, I was rather bored at the last tournament. All my games ended turn 1 and turn 2 so I was stuck waiting for 1+ hour for my next matchup each time. Got to talk to some people for a bit which was nice. Also, I was absolutely shocked at how slow some people play. Keep in mind this was a FLGS Tournament so it wasn't filled with GT players. But on every single turn at least half the games didn't get all of turn 3 in. And these games weren't filled with horde players either, kinda shocking as i said.
Joking aside, that is the reason, why I still looking how to win via secondaries. Not via alphastrike. I like it. I' m enjoying it.
Ah you meant from a competitive stand point. Well, its always good to clarify with judges before hand, but generally, if your opponent concedes the judge rules you get full points. Primaries its easy to justify since you control all points, and secondaries, I general choose ones which require actions or killing things, depends entirely on who I am going against.
Yeah, of course. But you know, I like rush opponent up and down the table prevent me to scoring banners there, or Behind enemy lines there. It' s fething hard not to lose on the way, but it' s just a game. You do it for fun if they give you 3 hours, i like to enjoy all of them
Btw. Two point from last few “quarantine TTS training” tips:
1. Don' t combine the squigosaur and watrike. They have similar weapon profile. Better to have killa klaw bikerboss and squigosaur.
2. I půay freebotas buggy list. I skipped the planes at all. For the same resons I skipped them a year ago. They are cool, but they die T2 no later. They no foots on the ground and foots on the ground is what is important. On the other side, DS deffkoptas and banners/goodbitz + behind enemy lines enable you to ignore secondaries more or less first few turns. But after that, if you kill enough opponents unit, you can score, like a hell. VP for Behind and the gold is good bitz in missions with low ammount of objectives - even with 2 midfield objectives, you can score 6 VP per turn!
Big Mek Sparknutz wrote: ... they have to devote a ton of shooting to the kommandos that are positioned on one flank. Charging them is not an option due to the new Suprize! strategem.
The warlord and main detachment are Goff right?
Then I don't think you can use Blood Axe stratagem sadly. :(
Actually the Octarius book specifically states you only need to have a Blood Axe detachment to have access to the strategems.
I've finally gotten a chance to try out my Orks with the new codex and I'm enjoying it so far. My favorite unit remains the bonebreaka and it never disappoints. My second favorite unit from editions past was the Warboss on a Warbike, I find that while he can do some serious damage I have a hard time keeping him alive more than 2 rounds. Any suggestions on how to keep him alive longer while still allowing him to thrash the enemy?
I primarily do 1000pt games and I run either Blood Axes or Evil Sunz
The Red Hobbit wrote: I've finally gotten a chance to try out my Orks with the new codex and I'm enjoying it so far. My favorite unit remains the bonebreaka and it never disappoints. My second favorite unit from editions past was the Warboss on a Warbike, I find that while he can do some serious damage I have a hard time keeping him alive more than 2 rounds. Any suggestions on how to keep him alive longer while still allowing him to thrash the enemy?
I primarily do 1000pt games and I run either Blood Axes or Evil Sunz
I only really have experience of using the Bikerboss as a missile to be honest. Killa Klaw and Brutal But Kunnin lets you mulch most things. Maybe try killing everything before it can kill you?
In all honesty just chucking Ard As Nails on it is probably the best bet, and then playing conservatively with it, but then you aren't utilising the speed and raw power the Bikerboss offers.
Squigboss' can be built to be super tanky, as can the Megaboss. Beasthide Mantle and Ard As Nails, and Ard As Nails and Krushin' Armour respectively.
Bossdoc wrote: And don't forget the attack squig, which is quite strong in combination with bbk and killa klaw, granting 2 additional klaw attacks in many cases...
Really ? If so, that is quite good. Extra attacks from bbk would be « the same attacks » but I will follow whatever is done elsewhere
Bossdoc wrote: And don't forget the attack squig, which is quite strong in combination with bbk and killa klaw, granting 2 additional klaw attacks in many cases...
Really ? Is so, that is quite good. Extra attacks from bbk would be « the same attacks » but I will follow whatever is done elsewhere
true i didnt think about that either.
But i guess it makes sense, given that beastboss on squigosaur also gets extra attacks if his squig fails. It can only have 3 attacks so those extra attacks from failed to hit, wound, damage would get funneled in to the riders attack pool.
The Red Hobbit wrote: I've finally gotten a chance to try out my Orks with the new codex and I'm enjoying it so far. My favorite unit remains the bonebreaka and it never disappoints. My second favorite unit from editions past was the Warboss on a Warbike, I find that while he can do some serious damage I have a hard time keeping him alive more than 2 rounds. Any suggestions on how to keep him alive longer while still allowing him to thrash the enemy?
I primarily do 1000pt games and I run either Blood Axes or Evil Sunz
The most important (and probably hardest) thing to do if you want to keep models like biker boss, the wartrike or the squigboss alive, is holding them back. Yes, you could totally dive into the middle of the enemy army, pick up an artillery tank and flip it over, but most of the times the guy standing around it won't like than and make short work of the boss. For the current game it's very important understand that you will take more damage the closer you get to the enemy, as you run into rapid fire, grenade, melta, pistol, debuff aura and charge ranges plus you are more likely to be the closest model for things like smite. Therefore you will always take the most damage after a have successfully charged something.
On the flip side, enemy damage will drop the longer the game lasts. If you hide your boss turn one, there is a higher chance for it to not get roasted in turn 2. If you focus on surviving, you can often still pick off weaker units relatively safely and then rampage about almost unhindered for the rest of the game.
Another good practice is to always aim for overkill when charging something with good melee weapons. Even if the chance of your target result is ~80%, that's a one in five chance to take a lot of damage back, often resulting in your boss getting gunned down by non-crucial weaponry as an afterthought merely because it's an obvious thing to do.
However, this isn't always the right thing to do. If you can take out a high value, high damage target turn one like a redemptor or a unit of buggies turn one, just do it. The most important aspect of ork defense is still crippling your opponent's offense, so always make sure to keep that in mind. Don't throw away your boss to kill something that's durable but has low impact on your army for the first turns - you can always go after them later.
I hope this is somewhat helpful, as there is no simple flowchart answer to your question when you should hide your boss and when you should beeline into the enemy army - it totally depends on the situation and requires a bit of experience to find out when to pick what fights.
Jidmah is right. It is about how to operate them. Keep them down and slightly overkill.
Genraly, the whole warhammer is about geting over margins.
Either you pass the charge or not.
Either you kill the unit, or just damage.
Either survive and shoot next turns or not.
If you have 60% to get over the margin, it is not a gameplan. Charging 9” for example.
And you need to think little bit in advance - ok, you get there and krump this unit. But what happens next? Units around krumps your warboss? Does it worth it? Sometimes yes. Mostly don' t.
It' s same with the Freeboota trait. Sometimes, it is better to start SPEEDWAAAGH T2+T3. It means, you need some soft target to be krumped by Squigbuggies on the beginning of T2. So if there is only one soft easy to kill unit on the table, keep it alive for T2.
Agree - and then sometimes there is just risk management. I've turned a great deal of games by taking high risks where the safe route would have likely ended in a loss.
Trying (and likely failing) to explain all this makes me kind of wonder about all this "40k doesn't require skill" talk
Bossdoc wrote: And don't forget the attack squig, which is quite strong in combination with bbk and killa klaw, granting 2 additional klaw attacks in many cases...
Really ? Is so, that is quite good. Extra attacks from bbk would be « the same attacks » but I will follow whatever is done elsewhere
true i didnt think about that either.
But i guess it makes sense, given that beastboss on squigosaur also gets extra attacks if his squig fails. It can only have 3 attacks so those extra attacks from failed to hit, wound, damage would get funneled in to the riders attack pool.
Indeed it does, which would make BBK much, much better on a footsloggin warboss with Da Killa Klaw than on a sguigosaur boss. Hmmm, this makes me rethink things about my current list
Indeed it does, which would make BBK much, much better on a footsloggin warboss with Da Killa Klaw than on a sguigosaur boss. Hmmm, this makes me rethink things about my current list
Squigosaur o)and footslogim bosses play a different role in the game. It' s about the synergy with rest of the army.
Indeed it does, which would make BBK much, much better on a footsloggin warboss with Da Killa Klaw than on a sguigosaur boss. Hmmm, this makes me rethink things about my current list
Squigosaur o)and footslogim bosses play a different role in the game. It' s about the synergy with rest of the army.
When talking synergy with the beastboss on squigosaur. most dont bring squigosaur bosses for their +1 to hit at least.
They use them as fast duable beatsticks. People that run squigosaur bosses dont necessarily run beastsnagga models.
Thanks for all the replies. I have enjoyed using mine as a cruise missile with BBK and Da Killa Klaw, but I may delay it a turn or so as long as my opponent isn't using Hive Guard or similar units with IDF.
Indeed it does, which would make BBK much, much better on a footsloggin warboss with Da Killa Klaw than on a sguigosaur boss. Hmmm, this makes me rethink things about my current list
Squigosaur o)and footslogim bosses play a different role in the game. It' s about the synergy with rest of the army.
When talking synergy with the beastboss on squigosaur. most dont bring squigosaur bosses for their +1 to hit at least.
They use them as fast duable beatsticks. People that run squigosaur bosses dont necessarily run beastsnagga models.
I use the sguigosaur aura for my killrigs, and I will use warboss aura for kommandos. I like kill rigs as deathskulls for a bunch of reasons, and for now I am keeping to Goffs for kommandos (I have tried blood axe kommandos in two games so far, and I am not convinced… but will try em again) so my warboss on foot will give them his aura. Sguigosaur bosses can take the punch and foot ones can’t, but in some games clearly the kill klaw warboss is a must (with attack sguig procing killa klaw attacks)
I’m after an opinion. I’m building up my army and have been smashing my opponent with my 500pt. I’m loving the squigs so am thinking of a beast focussed list, I have 2 units of 3x squighogs ( with nobs on Smashas). The bigger forces though mean I’m going to face more armour and possibly flyers so I have 2 Mek guns for back line AT or AA and am hoping to get a beastboss on squigasaur.
I figured I may need something big, scary looking and tanky to either do damage at range or at least distract & soak up fire for a couple of turns. Killrig should be the obvious choice but is it? I don’t particularly like the look of the model and having something I don’t like as a centrepiece doesn’t seem right. Is anything else as good such as a bonebreaka or Kannonwagon? I’d love a Killtank but the point cost is prohibitive right now.
Alternatively is this just a stupid and am I better with more fast attack.
The Red Hobbit wrote: Thanks for all the replies. I have enjoyed using mine as a cruise missile with BBK and Da Killa Klaw, but I may delay it a turn or so as long as my opponent isn't using Hive Guard or similar units with IDF.
Indeed it does, which would make BBK much, much better on a footsloggin warboss with Da Killa Klaw than on a sguigosaur boss. Hmmm, this makes me rethink things about my current list
Squigosaur o)and footslogim bosses play a different role in the game. It' s about the synergy with rest of the army.
When talking synergy with the beastboss on squigosaur. most dont bring squigosaur bosses for their +1 to hit at least.
They use them as fast duable beatsticks. People that run squigosaur bosses dont necessarily run beastsnagga models.
I use the sguigosaur aura for my killrigs, and I will use warboss aura for kommandos. I like kill rigs as deathskulls for a bunch of reasons, and for now I am keeping to Goffs for kommandos (I have tried blood axe kommandos in two games so far, and I am not convinced… but will try em again) so my warboss on foot will give them his aura. Sguigosaur bosses can take the punch and foot ones can’t, but in some games clearly the kill klaw warboss is a must (with attack sguig procing killa klaw attacks)
how do you get your warboss to give kommandos +1 to hit during turn 1?
Indeed it does, which would make BBK much, much better on a footsloggin warboss with Da Killa Klaw than on a sguigosaur boss. Hmmm, this makes me rethink things about my current list
Squigosaur o)and footslogim bosses play a different role in the game. It' s about the synergy with rest of the army.
When talking synergy with the beastboss on squigosaur. most dont bring squigosaur bosses for their +1 to hit at least.
They use them as fast duable beatsticks. People that run squigosaur bosses dont necessarily run beastsnagga models.
I use the sguigosaur aura for my killrigs, and I will use warboss aura for kommandos. I like kill rigs as deathskulls for a bunch of reasons, and for now I am keeping to Goffs for kommandos (I have tried blood axe kommandos in two games so far, and I am not convinced… but will try em again) so my warboss on foot will give them his aura. Sguigosaur bosses can take the punch and foot ones can’t, but in some games clearly the kill klaw warboss is a must (with attack sguig procing killa klaw attacks)
how do you get your warboss to give kommandos +1 to hit during turn 1?
They should be miles ahead of them?
You could make a warboss a trukkboy. You can also have them disembark from a Trukk turn 1, move 5, advance D6 which gives him an average movement of 11-12' that puts him 6' from the enemies deployment zone on an 18' no-mans land board. So you could theoretically get +1 on the kommandos turn 1.
SemperMortis wrote: You could make a warboss a trukkboy. You can also have them disembark from a Trukk turn 1, move 5, advance D6 which gives him an average movement of 11-12' that puts him 6' from the enemies deployment zone on an 18' no-mans land board. So you could theoretically get +1 on the kommandos turn 1.
No, because then your Warboss would be a Trukkboy, not a Goff.
Indeed it does, which would make BBK much, much better on a footsloggin warboss with Da Killa Klaw than on a sguigosaur boss. Hmmm, this makes me rethink things about my current list
Squigosaur o)and footslogim bosses play a different role in the game. It' s about the synergy with rest of the army.
When talking synergy with the beastboss on squigosaur. most dont bring squigosaur bosses for their +1 to hit at least.
They use them as fast duable beatsticks. People that run squigosaur bosses dont necessarily run beastsnagga models.
I use the sguigosaur aura for my killrigs, and I will use warboss aura for kommandos. I like kill rigs as deathskulls for a bunch of reasons, and for now I am keeping to Goffs for kommandos (I have tried blood axe kommandos in two games so far, and I am not convinced… but will try em again) so my warboss on foot will give them his aura. Sguigosaur bosses can take the punch and foot ones can’t, but in some games clearly the kill klaw warboss is a must (with attack sguig procing killa klaw attacks)
how do you get your warboss to give kommandos +1 to hit during turn 1?
They should be miles ahead of them?
Turn 2. Against some opponents a turn 1 alpha strike doesn’t necessarily do much, unless they don’t expect CC alpha strike in the meta and thus don’t build at all for it. In my meta, most lists I face would force an ork list to throw in a first then a second wave, unless of course a trio of sguig buggies or something could make a hole big enough for something to get through.
What could go through turn 1 every time is a trukk boy BBK killa klaw warboss, who could go try to murder a juicy target (but then indeed no aura).
But kommandos or trukk boyz, and even more easily bikes, can be screened turn 1 quite effectively
Indeed it does, which would make BBK much, much better on a footsloggin warboss with Da Killa Klaw than on a sguigosaur boss. Hmmm, this makes me rethink things about my current list
Squigosaur o)and footslogim bosses play a different role in the game. It' s about the synergy with rest of the army.
When talking synergy with the beastboss on squigosaur. most dont bring squigosaur bosses for their +1 to hit at least.
They use them as fast duable beatsticks. People that run squigosaur bosses dont necessarily run beastsnagga models.
I use the sguigosaur aura for my killrigs, and I will use warboss aura for kommandos. I like kill rigs as deathskulls for a bunch of reasons, and for now I am keeping to Goffs for kommandos (I have tried blood axe kommandos in two games so far, and I am not convinced… but will try em again) so my warboss on foot will give them his aura. Sguigosaur bosses can take the punch and foot ones can’t, but in some games clearly the kill klaw warboss is a must (with attack sguig procing killa klaw attacks)
how do you get your warboss to give kommandos +1 to hit during turn 1?
They should be miles ahead of them?
You could make a warboss a trukkboy. You can also have them disembark from a Trukk turn 1, move 5, advance D6 which gives him an average movement of 11-12' that puts him 6' from the enemies deployment zone on an 18' no-mans land board. So you could theoretically get +1 on the kommandos turn 1.
Trukkboy warlords dont give +1 to hit to kommandos i believe. Im somewhat confident its klan locked to only trukk boys if the warboss is trukkboy
Indeed it does, which would make BBK much, much better on a footsloggin warboss with Da Killa Klaw than on a sguigosaur boss. Hmmm, this makes me rethink things about my current list
Squigosaur o)and footslogim bosses play a different role in the game. It' s about the synergy with rest of the army.
When talking synergy with the beastboss on squigosaur. most dont bring squigosaur bosses for their +1 to hit at least.
They use them as fast duable beatsticks. People that run squigosaur bosses dont necessarily run beastsnagga models.
I use the sguigosaur aura for my killrigs, and I will use warboss aura for kommandos. I like kill rigs as deathskulls for a bunch of reasons, and for now I am keeping to Goffs for kommandos (I have tried blood axe kommandos in two games so far, and I am not convinced… but will try em again) so my warboss on foot will give them his aura. Sguigosaur bosses can take the punch and foot ones can’t, but in some games clearly the kill klaw warboss is a must (with attack sguig procing killa klaw attacks)
how do you get your warboss to give kommandos +1 to hit during turn 1?
They should be miles ahead of them?
Turn 2. Against some opponents a turn 1 alpha strike doesn’t necessarily do much, unless they don’t expect CC alpha strike in the meta and thus don’t build at all for it. In my meta, most lists I face would force an ork list to throw in a first then a second wave, unless of course a trio of sguig buggies or something could make a hole big enough for something to get through. What could go through turn 1 every time is a trukk boy BBK killa klaw warboss, who could go try to murder a juicy target (but then indeed no aura). But kommandos or trukk boyz, and even more easily bikes, can be screened turn 1 quite effectively
i figured it might be a turn 2 thing. But i would be afraid most my kommandos are dead after ive charged in turn 1.
I have yet to try this list, but i wonder if you have 30 kommandos and 30 stormboys if some o f them might not still be alive to benefit a +1 to hit. I wonder if they make a difference by turn 2.
I'm running a bike heavy speed mob list in a UKGT in January. Thoughts welcome especially on secondaries (more specifically secondaries to take against other common faction lists, admech/IG/drukhari etc). I'll try and post the missions when the game pack is released.
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Speed King (Speed Mob), Stratagem: Big Boss
+ Fast Attack +
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 105pts]: Madboyz
. Boss Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 110pts] . Boss Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Slugga
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
CaptainO wrote: I'm running a bike heavy speed mob list in a UKGT in January. Thoughts welcome especially on secondaries (more specifically secondaries to take against other common faction lists, admech/IG/drukhari etc). I'll try and post the missions when the game pack is released.
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Speed King (Speed Mob), Stratagem: Big Boss
+ Fast Attack +
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 105pts]: Madboyz
. Boss Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 110pts] . Boss Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Slugga
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
I will eagerly await your result to know if you got something out of those nob warbikers or they actively helped you lose your games by holding you back
DoktaRoksta wrote: I’m after an opinion. I’m building up my army and have been smashing my opponent with my 500pt. I’m loving the squigs so am thinking of a beast focussed list, I have 2 units of 3x squighogs ( with nobs on Smashas). The bigger forces though mean I’m going to face more armour and possibly flyers so I have 2 Mek guns for back line AT or AA and am hoping to get a beastboss on squigasaur.
I figured I may need something big, scary looking and tanky to either do damage at range or at least distract & soak up fire for a couple of turns. Killrig should be the obvious choice but is it? I don’t particularly like the look of the model and having something I don’t like as a centrepiece doesn’t seem right. Is anything else as good such as a bonebreaka or Kannonwagon? I’d love a Killtank but the point cost is prohibitive right now.
Alternatively is this just a stupid and am I better with more fast attack.
Kannonwagons are pure gold for sitting back, screen and shoot. Big, long range, fast!! And their BS do not degrade. They are better then KMKimho, because can move and shoot on what they want. And opponents do not like them, so they spent a lot of time trying to kill them.
DoktaRoksta wrote: I’m after an opinion. I’m building up my army and have been smashing my opponent with my 500pt. I’m loving the squigs so am thinking of a beast focussed list, I have 2 units of 3x squighogs ( with nobs on Smashas). The bigger forces though mean I’m going to face more armour and possibly flyers so I have 2 Mek guns for back line AT or AA and am hoping to get a beastboss on squigasaur.
I figured I may need something big, scary looking and tanky to either do damage at range or at least distract & soak up fire for a couple of turns. Killrig should be the obvious choice but is it? I don’t particularly like the look of the model and having something I don’t like as a centrepiece doesn’t seem right. Is anything else as good such as a bonebreaka or Kannonwagon? I’d love a Killtank but the point cost is prohibitive right now.
Alternatively is this just a stupid and am I better with more fast attack.
Kannonwagons are pure gold for sitting back, screen and shoot. Big, long range, fast!! And their BS do not degrade. They are better then KMKimho, because can move and shoot on what they want. And opponents do not like them, so they spent a lot of time trying to kill them.
Pure gold but only if you speed waagh IMO, because ap2 is not really enough for 170 points with BS5 +1 to hit (which is not really as good as bs4 but the « no degrade » makes up for it), 2d6 shots blast. If only we could make it boomboyz…
I am currently not doing speed waagh but if you are they are competing with wasbom (ap2 also for the good gunz), with less points, more wounds, toughness 8 instead of 6, save 3+ instead of 4+, but less damage potential (a lot less actually). I think both units are really worth considering in a speeswaagh.
Yesterday I tried a wasbom with kustom blasta gunz and the d3 shots was meh. The ap2 good gunz are too limited imho because some stuff out there packs a 2+ save, or even 1+ for GRand master dread knights with the shroud mode on. Perhaps that is where blood axe kommandos come in with the no cover strat, but still…
Has anyone tried wasboms or kannonwagons with the regular waaagh ? What was you experience with the ap2 « problem » (imho it is a real problem, or should I say limitation, but hey, Metas vary considerably)
CaptainO wrote: I'm running a bike heavy speed mob list in a UKGT in January. Thoughts welcome especially on secondaries (more specifically secondaries to take against other common faction lists, admech/IG/drukhari etc). I'll try and post the missions when the game pack is released.
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Speed King (Speed Mob), Stratagem: Big Boss
+ Fast Attack +
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 105pts]: Madboyz
. Boss Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 110pts] . Boss Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Slugga
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
I will eagerly await your result to know if you got something out of those nob warbikers or they actively helped you lose your games by holding you back
I will endeavour to do so dude. The presence of two extra obsec units that can do "some" action secondaries appeals. There's a temptation to make both madboyz for extra kick rather than the deffkoptas"flyboyz". I don't fancy buying a load more buggies. It's really a pity their not 4w each but heehoo. Any thoughts on secondaries?
CaptainO wrote: I'm running a bike heavy speed mob list in a UKGT in January. Thoughts welcome especially on secondaries (more specifically secondaries to take against other common faction lists, admech/IG/drukhari etc). I'll try and post the missions when the game pack is released.
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Speed King (Speed Mob), Stratagem: Big Boss
+ Fast Attack +
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 105pts]: Madboyz . Boss Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga . Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga . Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 110pts] . Boss Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga . Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga . Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Slugga
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa . 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa . 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa . 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
I will eagerly await your result to know if you got something out of those nob warbikers or they actively helped you lose your games by holding you back
I will endeavour to do so dude. The presence of two extra obsec units that can do "some" action secondaries appeals. There's a temptation to make both madboyz for extra kick rather than the deffkoptas"flyboyz". I don't fancy buying a load more buggies. It's really a pity their not 4w each but heehoo. Any thoughts on secondaries?
well. Good luck to you in that upcoming tournement at least.
Its pretty bold to put down Nobs on warbikes due to them not having received ANY of the buffs they're meant to with this new codex. Yea they are forge world models, but they should have more wounds or more toughness which they dont, and they dont have -1 to hit against ranged attacks, and dont get flat 6 to advance.
They cost 5 points more despite being literally less duable than warbikers, but i guess what they've got going for them is the ability to pick big choppas and powerklaws, as you are doing. And i suppose if one had to pick nobs on warbikes, i guess a speed Mob might be the best scenario to have them in.
Ya 5 points for an extra attack and strength despite losing -1 to hit and auto 6 advance is weird.
The lack of infantry means I'm limited in secondaries. The nobz for all their faults can do "get the good Bitz" and "deploy teleport homers".
I'm currently looking at engage and to the last as my two go to secondaries. With GTGB and DTH as my 3rd assuming there isn't a good opposition (abhor the witch/no prisoners/bring em down)or mission secondary. My logic is that the 2x warbikers squads having larger targets on their backs will distract from the nobz a bit.
Dunno if combining the two squads of 3 nobz into one might keep them alive for a bit longer...
CaptainO wrote: I'm running a bike heavy speed mob list in a UKGT in January. Thoughts welcome especially on secondaries (more specifically secondaries to take against other common faction lists, admech/IG/drukhari etc). I'll try and post the missions when the game pack is released.
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Speed King (Speed Mob), Stratagem: Big Boss
+ Fast Attack +
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 105pts]: Madboyz
. Boss Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 110pts] . Boss Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Slugga
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
My lizard brain tells me that there isn't enough shooting, but it looks like you're looking to drown everything in Dakkagun fire and melee attacks, so the other shooting isn't needed.
Hey guys, I am about to play Ad Mech for the first time on our YouTube channel with the Speed Mob from Octarius. I would appreciate some feedback on secondary's to take and advice on facing ad mech/some quick tips on how they work, basically what to expect?
Hey guys, it's kind of hard to discuss multiple lists at once in one thread, so I would like to point to the rules in the first post - use the army list forum and drop a link to your post in this thread, usually a good number of ladz will follow those links and provide dedicated feedback.
DoktaRoksta wrote: I’m after an opinion. I’m building up my army and have been smashing my opponent with my 500pt. I’m loving the squigs so am thinking of a beast focussed list, I have 2 units of 3x squighogs ( with nobs on Smashas). The bigger forces though mean I’m going to face more armour and possibly flyers so I have 2 Mek guns for back line AT or AA and am hoping to get a beastboss on squigasaur.
I figured I may need something big, scary looking and tanky to either do damage at range or at least distract & soak up fire for a couple of turns. Killrig should be the obvious choice but is it? I don’t particularly like the look of the model and having something I don’t like as a centrepiece doesn’t seem right. Is anything else as good such as a bonebreaka or Kannonwagon? I’d love a Killtank but the point cost is prohibitive right now.
Alternatively is this just a stupid and am I better with more fast attack.
Kannonwagons are pure gold for sitting back, screen and shoot. Big, long range, fast!! And their BS do not degrade. They are better then KMKimho, because can move and shoot on what they want. And opponents do not like them, so they spent a lot of time trying to kill them.
Pure gold but only if you speed waagh IMO, because ap2 is not really enough for 170 points with BS5 +1 to hit (which is not really as good as bs4 but the « no degrade » makes up for it), 2d6 shots blast. If only we could make it boomboyz…
I am currently not doing speed waagh but if you are they are competing with wasbom (ap2 also for the good gunz), with less points, more wounds, toughness 8 instead of 6, save 3+ instead of 4+, but less damage potential (a lot less actually). I think both units are really worth considering in a speeswaagh.
Yesterday I tried a wasbom with kustom blasta gunz and the d3 shots was meh. The ap2 good gunz are too limited imho because some stuff out there packs a 2+ save, or even 1+ for GRand master dread knights with the shroud mode on. Perhaps that is where blood axe kommandos come in with the no cover strat, but still…
Has anyone tried wasboms or kannonwagons with the regular waaagh ? What was you experience with the ap2 « problem » (imho it is a real problem, or should I say limitation, but hey, Metas vary considerably)
That is not right.
1. Kannonwagon has a Grot gunner giving him +1 to hit on Supakannon. So he hits on 4+ by default and Freeboota bonus is applied just in case of dense cover, or -1 to hit on target. Which is pretty often.
2. You cannont compare Kannonwagon and Wazboom. The fact they both have anti tank guns doesn' t mean anything. They play a very differeng role. And this role significantly change their effectivity. Wazboom si there to delete T1 the guns ouf of LOS that will criple your army for the rest of the day - Manticoras, PBC, etc. and score Engage and die fast. Kannonwagon can also kill the hiden target (nice diagonal 60” LOS can reach almost anything), but he screens like a hell. Deny your opponent to drop DS for secondaries or DS attacks. And soak more fire.
3. Honestly, I don' t see any reason why run any of them in regular waaaagh. Their points comes back if you pimp them up with Speedwaaagh and dedicated clan ability - like Freebootas +1 to hit.
DoktaRoksta wrote: I’m after an opinion. I’m building up my army and have been smashing my opponent with my 500pt. I’m loving the squigs so am thinking of a beast focussed list, I have 2 units of 3x squighogs ( with nobs on Smashas). The bigger forces though mean I’m going to face more armour and possibly flyers so I have 2 Mek guns for back line AT or AA and am hoping to get a beastboss on squigasaur.
I figured I may need something big, scary looking and tanky to either do damage at range or at least distract & soak up fire for a couple of turns. Killrig should be the obvious choice but is it? I don’t particularly like the look of the model and having something I don’t like as a centrepiece doesn’t seem right. Is anything else as good such as a bonebreaka or Kannonwagon? I’d love a Killtank but the point cost is prohibitive right now.
Alternatively is this just a stupid and am I better with more fast attack.
Kannonwagons are pure gold for sitting back, screen and shoot. Big, long range, fast!! And their BS do not degrade. They are better then KMKimho, because can move and shoot on what they want. And opponents do not like them, so they spent a lot of time trying to kill them.
Pure gold but only if you speed waagh IMO, because ap2 is not really enough for 170 points with BS5 +1 to hit (which is not really as good as bs4 but the « no degrade » makes up for it), 2d6 shots blast. If only we could make it boomboyz…
I am currently not doing speed waagh but if you are they are competing with wasbom (ap2 also for the good gunz), with less points, more wounds, toughness 8 instead of 6, save 3+ instead of 4+, but less damage potential (a lot less actually). I think both units are really worth considering in a speeswaagh.
Yesterday I tried a wasbom with kustom blasta gunz and the d3 shots was meh. The ap2 good gunz are too limited imho because some stuff out there packs a 2+ save, or even 1+ for GRand master dread knights with the shroud mode on. Perhaps that is where blood axe kommandos come in with the no cover strat, but still…
Has anyone tried wasboms or kannonwagons with the regular waaagh ? What was you experience with the ap2 « problem » (imho it is a real problem, or should I say limitation, but hey, Metas vary considerably)
That is not right.
1. Kannonwagon has a Grot gunner giving him +1 to hit on Supakannon. So he hits on 4+ by default and Freeboota bonus is applied just in case of dense cover, or -1 to hit on target. Which is pretty often.
2. You cannont compare Kannonwagon and Wazboom. The fact they both have anti tank guns doesn' t mean anything. They play a very differeng role. And this role significantly change their effectivity. Wazboom si there to delete T1 the guns ouf of LOS that will criple your army for the rest of the day - Manticoras, PBC, etc. and score Engage and die fast. Kannonwagon can also kill the hiden target (nice diagonal 60” LOS can reach almost anything), but he screens like a hell. Deny your opponent to drop DS for secondaries or DS attacks. And soak more fire.
3. Honestly, I don' t see any reason why run any of them in regular waaaagh. Their points comes back if you pimp them up with Speedwaaagh and dedicated clan ability - like Freebootas +1 to hit.
1. What I was saying is that BS5 with +1 to hit isn't exactly the same as BS4, and you are saying the same thing.
2. Yes, they are both anti tank vehicules which cost a lot of points, so we can absolutely compare them, One sits in the back, the other has to fly "forward" or "sidewards". One alpha strikes much harder, then tends to die, the other will probably stay until more or less then end of game, but won't alpha strike nearly so hard.
3. You are right that if something gives it -1 to hit, making it hit on 5s, it won't do much, so freebooters can be very important on Kannonwagons (or blood axe, because blood axe kommandos can do the no cover strat, but it can be hard to set up I think, so freebooter = better. Blood axe Kannonwagon can also disengage and shoot his blast gun, and gets a 2+ if shot from far away, but still, I think freebooter = better).
Speedwaagh and freebooter is the way to go indeed, but everyone, including me before I switched to "non speed" waagh lists, seems to be running wasboms instead these days when doing freebooters.
Do you still play Kannonwagons ? I would be interested to see your current list. Perhaps 2 wazboms and 1 kannonwagon can all fit into a list, or 1 waz and 2 KWagons.
After two games saturday, my current list has room for 140 points, but it is a (not speed)waagh list so of course I won't be filling these 140 points with Kannonwagon or Wazbom.
Personally, I'm wondering whether there is a game reason to not run kill rigs instead of kannonwagons.
While there obviously is the issue of needing an expensive model with questionable aesthetics, statwise the kill rig feels superior.
1. What I was saying is that BS5 with +1 to hit isn't exactly the same as BS4, and you are saying the same thing.
2. Yes, they are both anti tank vehicules which cost a lot of points, so we can absolutely compare them, One sits in the back, the other has to fly "forward" or "sidewards". One alpha strikes much harder, then tends to die, the other will probably stay until more or less then end of game, but won't alpha strike nearly so hard.
3. You are right that if something gives it -1 to hit, making it hit on 5s, it won't do much, so freebooters can be very important on Kannonwagons (or blood axe, because blood axe kommandos can do the no cover strat, but it can be hard to set up I think, so freebooter = better. Blood axe Kannonwagon can also disengage and shoot his blast gun, and gets a 2+ if shot from far away, but still, I think freebooter = better).
Speedwaagh and freebooter is the way to go indeed, but everyone, including me before I switched to "non speed" waagh lists, seems to be running wasboms instead these days when doing freebooters.
Do you still play Kannonwagons ? I would be interested to see your current list. Perhaps 2 wazboms and 1 kannonwagon can all fit into a list, or 1 waz and 2 KWagons.
After two games saturday, my current list has room for 140 points, but it is a (not speed)waagh list so of course I won't be filling these 140 points with Kannonwagon or Wazbom.
Ok, so we see it the same way.
Yes, I used to play jets in the old codex and than switch go Kannonwagons, because of “boots on ground” and “die too fast”. With the new codex, I switched back to jets. They were cool, but it was about the margins - as usually - 4 was enough to break the enemy T1 but was pretty broken. If go first, opponent had pretty often no chance. With 3 wazbooms and 3 dakkajets, totaly broken. After dataslate - Two are strong but do get over this margin. So I switched back to Kannonwagons (and to jets, and to wagons couple of times..) and now I' m very solid in Kannonwagons. Simply like them more.
I' ve tried the 2 KW + 2 wazbooms too but it' s too many points in some fire support somewhere. Not so many units left fo do some actual stuff.
KW and squigbuggies sit in the back. Screen my deploy to deny the secondaries (say hello go RODs) and trigger the freeboota trait.
Shockjumps and Scrapjets do the castle on midfield and one side. Warboss and Squigboss organize the second wing and slowly advancing forward.
Kommandos do kommandos things.
Deffkoptas and 1-2 stromboyz in DS.
T1 is “preparing the positions” and if there is no “week target” to trigger FB trait easily, I prepare one hard target to “last wound” to be killed in T2 easily.
T2 I call Speedwaagh, drop Koptas and shoot like a hell. In the best scenario, I drop them in or close to enemy deploy.
I took Behind enemy lines - 2 squads of koptas should score them since T2, since T3-4 one of the warbosses should be already in enemy deploy and score too.
Second secodnary is Banners (6 objective missions) or Gitz (low objective mission) - both makes enemy move out of his deploy and stop me. This gets him in range of my 24” guns. And makes space for Koptas. And I can score high in later turns to 15VP.
Kommandos and grots rise the first banners. Stormboyz tend to drop later and do the banners or gitz on the later phase of the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Beardedragon wrote: Well. I would assume people run Kannon wagons to hold the backline, which the Kill rig cant do. The wurrtower only shoots 24 inches or something.
Yeah, but if you play Waagh, it makes sence to skip the bacline at all. You have army wide advance and charge, so it seems to be good to focus on advance and charge. With everything.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: Personally, I'm wondering whether there is a game reason to not run kill rigs instead of kannonwagons.
While there obviously is the issue of needing an expensive model with questionable aesthetics, statwise the kill rig feels superior.
I 'm working on cool looking Killrigs totaly dyno-free. And because I suffer the terrible lack of sutiable parts, it seems we do it like STL with my buddy who runs the STL company. Wait for the first quater of the next year.
Jidmah wrote: Personally, I'm wondering whether there is a game reason to not run kill rigs instead of kannonwagons.
While there obviously is the issue of needing an expensive model with questionable aesthetics, statwise the kill rig feels superior.
Squigbuggies were all the hotness since the codex dropped. I have 0 of them with plans to buy....0. I think the model looks like crap and as such I don't want to buy it The exact same is true of the Killrig. The only reason I would want to buy one at all is because its so big and open I can probably get away with modding the hell out of it and turn it into a pirate ship or something insane. I saw a guy who turned one into a Santa Clause sleigh
Jidmah wrote: Hey guys, it's kind of hard to discuss multiple lists at once in one thread, so I would like to point to the rules in the first post - use the army list forum and drop a link to your post in this thread, usually a good number of ladz will follow those links and provide dedicated feedback.
Jidmah wrote: Personally, I'm wondering whether there is a game reason to not run kill rigs instead of kannonwagons.
While there obviously is the issue of needing an expensive model with questionable aesthetics, statwise the kill rig feels superior.
Squigbuggies were all the hotness since the codex dropped. I have 0 of them with plans to buy....0. I think the model looks like crap and as such I don't want to buy it The exact same is true of the Killrig. The only reason I would want to buy one at all is because its so big and open I can probably get away with modding the hell out of it and turn it into a pirate ship or something insane. I saw a guy who turned one into a Santa Clause sleigh
Yeah, squigbuggies are super ugly. Don' t tell me about it. Spent last two months to do something with them…
CaptainO wrote: I'm running a bike heavy speed mob list in a UKGT in January. Thoughts welcome especially on secondaries (more specifically secondaries to take against other common faction lists, admech/IG/drukhari etc). I'll try and post the missions when the game pack is released.
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Speed King (Speed Mob), Stratagem: Big Boss
+ Fast Attack +
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 105pts]: Madboyz
. Boss Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 110pts] . Boss Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Slugga
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Here is a super secret awesome sauce secondary for warbikers in speed mob…
Deploy teleport homers is one of the only actions that work with warbikers
AND
Speed mob has a special rule that states “each time this unit advances in your movement phase until the end of your shooting phase it counts as having made a normal move instead.”
which means a speedmob is the only detachment where you can advance and complete this action for potentially 4vp per turn but you still can’t shoot except…
…. since your biker unit is bloodaxes you can also use tactical awareness strat to do an action and still use range attacks but it’s not really worth 2cp.
Honestly the only real use for bloodaxes in that detachment is you can use get ‘em trapped strat for exploding 6s on melee on an enemy for 2cp. Which isn’t that bad if you have 2 or more biker units engaged with an enemy. Which if your warlord is freebooter and you are not going to take evil suns faster then yoos warlord trait makes bloodaxes the best biker detachment clan in speedmob since all other clan Strats/relics are warlord locked.
This is a good secondary against most armies however some secondaries such as abhor the witch vs greyknights or TS, Titan slayer vs most knight armies or assasinate vs characrrr heavy armies may be better..
If facing an army whose able to freely delete a warbiker unit at will you might want to try engage on all fronts or behind enemy lines; to the last is okay on some speed mobs but I’ll be hesitant since those deffkoptas have some heavy lifting triggering freebooter for wazboms.
CaptainO wrote: I'm running a bike heavy speed mob list in a UKGT in January. Thoughts welcome especially on secondaries (more specifically secondaries to take against other common faction lists, admech/IG/drukhari etc). I'll try and post the missions when the game pack is released.
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Speed King (Speed Mob), Stratagem: Big Boss
+ Fast Attack +
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 105pts]: Madboyz
. Boss Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 110pts] . Boss Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Slugga
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Here is a super secret awesome sauce secondary for warbikers in speed mob…
Deploy teleport homers is one of the only actions that work with warbikers
AND
Speed mob has a special rule that states “each time this unit advances in your movement phase until the end of your shooting phase it counts as having made a normal move instead.”
which means a speedmob is the only detachment where you can advance and complete this action for potentially 4vp per turn but you still can’t shoot except…
…. since your biker unit is bloodaxes you can also use tactical awareness strat to do an action and still use range attacks but it’s not really worth 2cp.
Honestly the only real use for bloodaxes in that detachment is you can use get ‘em trapped strat for exploding 6s on melee on an enemy for 2cp. Which isn’t that bad if you have 2 or more biker units engaged with an enemy. Which if your warlord is freebooter and you are not going to take evil suns faster then yoos warlord trait makes bloodaxes the best biker detachment clan in speedmob since all other clan Strats/relics are warlord locked.
This is a good secondary against most armies however some secondaries such as abhor the witch vs greyknights or TS, Titan slayer vs most knight armies or assasinate vs characrrr heavy armies may be better..
If facing an army whose able to freely delete a warbiker unit at will you might want to try engage on all fronts or behind enemy lines; to the last is okay on some speed mobs but I’ll be hesitant since those deffkoptas have some heavy lifting triggering freebooter for wazboms.
Mega feedback thanks.Very interesting that you say I'd be able to perform actions after advancing with all "adrenaline junkies" warbikers as the only reason I was taking blood axes was to access tactical awareness. You sure about that?. Is that both deploy teleport homers (DTH) and get the get the good Bitz (GTGB)?
If that's the case I'd be more tempted to run the two detachments as flashgitz and evil sunz as you say. Having the warboss as freebootas gives me the badskull banna warboss on bike who is now obsec which is a great way to steal an objective. Access to evil sunz strat, trait and relic would be nice though. I'm correct in saying nob bikers aren't core?
I'm actually considering running the deffkoptas as fly boys for the +1 to save which would mean they wouldn't directly set off the freeboota+1. My plan was to use them or some warbikers to soften up a unit then finish it with the freeboota rukkatrukk to get the +1. Is this too risky?
I plan to spend 90% of my CP keeping the deffkoptas safe/causing mortals on the charge (3cp total for a ceiling of 18 mortals (all be it super variable)and a 3d6 rerollavle charge looks great)
Tomsug i like your list a lot but I would drop da Krusha armour on big mek to gain a cp (you will need 6 cp for smoke, twic’ and kff once, and then 2 cp with the ones you will get each should be barely enough). I also think deploy Teleport Homer Simpsons is a « win more » for your army list, and so I think you should build for another one.
You could perhaps try and find points for a dakkajet though (making the koptas 2*3 for example) IMHO because an army list with lots of bodies might be a problem for you otherwise (like sisters of battle for example). You have a bit of dakka on the kannonwagons, the scrapjets, and thenkoptas send out loads of hits, but all tha5 stuff is ap1 and so won’t go far in some match ups.
CaptainO wrote: I'm running a bike heavy speed mob list in a UKGT in January. Thoughts welcome especially on secondaries (more specifically secondaries to take against other common faction lists, admech/IG/drukhari etc). I'll try and post the missions when the game pack is released.
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Speed King (Speed Mob), Stratagem: Big Boss
+ Fast Attack +
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 105pts]: Madboyz
. Boss Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 110pts] . Boss Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Slugga
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Here is a super secret awesome sauce secondary for warbikers in speed mob…
Deploy teleport homers is one of the only actions that work with warbikers
AND
Speed mob has a special rule that states “each time this unit advances in your movement phase until the end of your shooting phase it counts as having made a normal move instead.”
which means a speedmob is the only detachment where you can advance and complete this action for potentially 4vp per turn but you still can’t shoot except…
…. since your biker unit is bloodaxes you can also use tactical awareness strat to do an action and still use range attacks but it’s not really worth 2cp.
Honestly the only real use for bloodaxes in that detachment is you can use get ‘em trapped strat for exploding 6s on melee on an enemy for 2cp. Which isn’t that bad if you have 2 or more biker units engaged with an enemy. Which if your warlord is freebooter and you are not going to take evil suns faster then yoos warlord trait makes bloodaxes the best biker detachment clan in speedmob since all other clan Strats/relics are warlord locked.
This is a good secondary against most armies however some secondaries such as abhor the witch vs greyknights or TS, Titan slayer vs most knight armies or assasinate vs characrrr heavy armies may be better..
If facing an army whose able to freely delete a warbiker unit at will you might want to try engage on all fronts or behind enemy lines; to the last is okay on some speed mobs but I’ll be hesitant since those deffkoptas have some heavy lifting triggering freebooter for wazboms.
Mega feedback thanks.Very interesting that you say I'd be able to perform actions after advancing with all "adrenaline junkies" warbikers as the only reason I was taking blood axes was to access tactical awareness. You sure about that?. Is that both deploy teleport homers (DTH) and get the get the good Bitz (GTGB)?
If that's the case I'd be more tempted to run the two detachments as flashgitz and evil sunz as you say. Having the warboss as freebootas gives me the badskull banna warboss on bike who is now obsec which is a great way to steal an objective. Access to evil sunz strat, trait and relic would be nice though. I'm correct in saying nob bikers aren't core?
I'm actually considering running the deffkoptas as fly boys for the +1 to save which would mean they wouldn't directly set off the freeboota+1. My plan was to use them or some warbikers to soften up a unit then finish it with the freeboota rukkatrukk to get the +1. Is this too risky?
I plan to spend 90% of my CP keeping the deffkoptas safe/causing mortals on the charge (3cp total for a ceiling of 18 mortals (all be it super variable)and a 3d6 rerollavle charge looks great)
If you are running Speed Mob you won't be getting the Freebooterz +1 to hit on any Speed Freeks unit anyway. I think for Speed Mob the only discussion to have about Klan is for traits and relics.
addnid wrote: Tomsug i like your list a lot but I would drop da Krusha armour on big mek to gain a cp (you will need 6 cp for smoke, twic’ and kff once, and then 2 cp with the ones you will get each should be barely enough). I also think deploy Teleport Homer Simpsons is a « win more » for your army list, and so I think you should build for another one.
You could perhaps try and find points for a dakkajet though (making the koptas 2*3 for example) IMHO because an army list with lots of bodies might be a problem for you otherwise (like sisters of battle for example). You have a bit of dakka on the kannonwagons, the scrapjets, and thenkoptas send out loads of hits, but all tha5 stuff is ap1 and so won’t go far in some match ups.
1. Krusha armour - well, it comes back couple of times already, but I agree, it' s a question, worth the points?
2. Boosted KFF - I don' t use it. I found that I need some invu for more turns. And because Koptas are in DS, I can hide most of the army in T1.
3. Bikers are definitely on my todo list. Now, i dont have any, so I don' t play them. I' m finishing the koptas now, bikers come after.
4. I used dakkajet. But it barely did some damage mostly. What I face the most of the times are some tough bastards and dreadnoughts or barques. Maybe local meta? I haven ' t seen the nuns for a long time. Not even on tts. But they had a problem to kill me, if I killed their meltanuns with extended range.
addnid wrote: Tomsug i like your list a lot but I would drop da Krusha armour on big mek to gain a cp (you will need 6 cp for smoke, twic’ and kff once, and then 2 cp with the ones you will get each should be barely enough). I also think deploy Teleport Homer Simpsons is a « win more » for your army list, and so I think you should build for another one.
You could perhaps try and find points for a dakkajet though (making the koptas 2*3 for example) IMHO because an army list with lots of bodies might be a problem for you otherwise (like sisters of battle for example). You have a bit of dakka on the kannonwagons, the scrapjets, and thenkoptas send out loads of hits, but all tha5 stuff is ap1 and so won’t go far in some match ups.
1. Krusha armour - well, it comes back couple of times already, but I agree, it' s a question, worth the points?
2. Boosted KFF - I don' t use it. I found that I need some invu for more turns. And because Koptas are in DS, I can hide most of the army in T1.
3. Bikers are definitely on my todo list. Now, i dont have any, so I don' t play them. I' m finishing the koptas now, bikers come after.
4. I used dakkajet. But it barely did some damage mostly. What I face the most of the times are some tough bastards and dreadnoughts or barques. Maybe local meta? I haven ' t seen the nuns for a long time. Not even on tts. But I' m looking on them right now because of your comment and your' re pretty much right!
1. Krusha armour is great on deathskulls big mek in mega armour, because it helps him survive and keep objective. Or blood axe because he can fall back and charge (but know one takes a blood axe variant hah hah)
2. Yeah fair point, I tend to use it less and less too. Last Saturday against 4 melta gravis dudes it did help a lot a killrig to survive the meltastorm, but in my last 4 games, over the last two weeks, that was perhaps the only time I used it.
3. Freebooter bikers… dunno, maybe ? They could be good to remove chaff and stay on an objective, dunno
4. My meta is indeed also moving towards tough bastards (Imperial Knights coming back, talons cronos replacing wych and incubi builds, etc.), and that is when good players will go counter meta and bring battle nuns and such. I dunno really, but 120 points ain’t much and would do well as a « contingency ». It also isn’t the worst unit against grey knights, and is great in the mirror match against other orks
CaptainO wrote: I'm running a bike heavy speed mob list in a UKGT in January. Thoughts welcome especially on secondaries (more specifically secondaries to take against other common faction lists, admech/IG/drukhari etc). I'll try and post the missions when the game pack is released.
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Speed King (Speed Mob), Stratagem: Big Boss
+ Fast Attack +
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 105pts]: Madboyz
. Boss Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 110pts] . Boss Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Slugga
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Here is a super secret awesome sauce secondary for warbikers in speed mob…
Deploy teleport homers is one of the only actions that work with warbikers
AND
Speed mob has a special rule that states “each time this unit advances in your movement phase until the end of your shooting phase it counts as having made a normal move instead.”
which means a speedmob is the only detachment where you can advance and complete this action for potentially 4vp per turn but you still can’t shoot except…
…. since your biker unit is bloodaxes you can also use tactical awareness strat to do an action and still use range attacks but it’s not really worth 2cp.
Honestly the only real use for bloodaxes in that detachment is you can use get ‘em trapped strat for exploding 6s on melee on an enemy for 2cp. Which isn’t that bad if you have 2 or more biker units engaged with an enemy. Which if your warlord is freebooter and you are not going to take evil suns faster then yoos warlord trait makes bloodaxes the best biker detachment clan in speedmob since all other clan Strats/relics are warlord locked.
This is a good secondary against most armies however some secondaries such as abhor the witch vs greyknights or TS, Titan slayer vs most knight armies or assasinate vs characrrr heavy armies may be better..
If facing an army whose able to freely delete a warbiker unit at will you might want to try engage on all fronts or behind enemy lines; to the last is okay on some speed mobs but I’ll be hesitant since those deffkoptas have some heavy lifting triggering freebooter for wazboms.
Mega feedback thanks.Very interesting that you say I'd be able to perform actions after advancing with all "adrenaline junkies" warbikers as the only reason I was taking blood axes was to access tactical awareness. You sure about that?. Is that both deploy teleport homers (DTH) and get the get the good Bitz (GTGB)?
If that's the case I'd be more tempted to run the two detachments as flashgitz and evil sunz as you say. Having the warboss as freebootas gives me the badskull banna warboss on bike who is now obsec which is a great way to steal an objective. Access to evil sunz strat, trait and relic would be nice though. I'm correct in saying nob bikers aren't core?
I'm actually considering running the deffkoptas as fly boys for the +1 to save which would mean they wouldn't directly set off the freeboota+1. My plan was to use them or some warbikers to soften up a unit then finish it with the freeboota rukkatrukk to get the +1. Is this too risky?
I plan to spend 90% of my CP keeping the deffkoptas safe/causing mortals on the charge (3cp total for a ceiling of 18 mortals (all be it super variable)and a 3d6 rerollavle charge looks great)
If you are running Speed Mob you won't be getting the Freebooterz +1 to hit on any Speed Freeks unit anyway. I think for Speed Mob the only discussion to have about Klan is for traits and relics.
This is not true… speedmob keeps clan but loses kultur they still trigger the freebooter buff for freebooters with the kultur… which aircraft and wagons still have since they don’t get the speedmob replacement ability. He’s also using freebooter relic
And while I love cheap dakkajets right now the meta is shifting toward high toughness durable targets.. and 3+ to hit wazboms (from freebooters kultur) can wreck a dreadknight a turn by themselves. The “problem” with speed mob is once those wazboms are down, you rely on fragile deffkoptas to do some heavy lifting.
I still prefer evilsuns over bloodaxes as I like get ‘em trapped exploding 6s I prefer spending those 2cp on chaarge! +1 str and -1ap and faster then yoos on a squad of 9 warbikers since you really want to advance every turn for 5++ especially when you plan to charge into combat.
Also move by Dakka is a cheap way to hide those deffkoptas after shooting.
while I like warbiker spam there are several popular armies able to blow up 3 wound warbikers fairly easily still. I wish they updated the nob warbikers with an extra wound and -1 to hit as that would have made them survive the current meta much better. As is they are mainly just good if you want a small detachment of warbikers to grab an objective as your bigger cheaper biker squads do some work.
CaptainO wrote: I'm running a bike heavy speed mob list in a UKGT in January. Thoughts welcome especially on secondaries (more specifically secondaries to take against other common faction lists, admech/IG/drukhari etc). I'll try and post the missions when the game pack is released.
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Speed King (Speed Mob), Stratagem: Big Boss
+ Fast Attack +
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 105pts]: Madboyz
. Boss Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 110pts] . Boss Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Slugga
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Here is a super secret awesome sauce secondary for warbikers in speed mob…
Deploy teleport homers is one of the only actions that work with warbikers
AND
Speed mob has a special rule that states “each time this unit advances in your movement phase until the end of your shooting phase it counts as having made a normal move instead.”
which means a speedmob is the only detachment where you can advance and complete this action for potentially 4vp per turn but you still can’t shoot except…
…. since your biker unit is bloodaxes you can also use tactical awareness strat to do an action and still use range attacks but it’s not really worth 2cp.
Honestly the only real use for bloodaxes in that detachment is you can use get ‘em trapped strat for exploding 6s on melee on an enemy for 2cp. Which isn’t that bad if you have 2 or more biker units engaged with an enemy. Which if your warlord is freebooter and you are not going to take evil suns faster then yoos warlord trait makes bloodaxes the best biker detachment clan in speedmob since all other clan Strats/relics are warlord locked.
This is a good secondary against most armies however some secondaries such as abhor the witch vs greyknights or TS, Titan slayer vs most knight armies or assasinate vs characrrr heavy armies may be better..
If facing an army whose able to freely delete a warbiker unit at will you might want to try engage on all fronts or behind enemy lines; to the last is okay on some speed mobs but I’ll be hesitant since those deffkoptas have some heavy lifting triggering freebooter for wazboms.
Mega feedback thanks.Very interesting that you say I'd be able to perform actions after advancing with all "adrenaline junkies" warbikers as the only reason I was taking blood axes was to access tactical awareness. You sure about that?. Is that both deploy teleport homers (DTH) and get the get the good Bitz (GTGB)?
If that's the case I'd be more tempted to run the two detachments as flashgitz and evil sunz as you say. Having the warboss as freebootas gives me the badskull banna warboss on bike who is now obsec which is a great way to steal an objective. Access to evil sunz strat, trait and relic would be nice though. I'm correct in saying nob bikers aren't core?
I'm actually considering running the deffkoptas as fly boys for the +1 to save which would mean they wouldn't directly set off the freeboota+1. My plan was to use them or some warbikers to soften up a unit then finish it with the freeboota rukkatrukk to get the +1. Is this too risky?
I plan to spend 90% of my CP keeping the deffkoptas safe/causing mortals on the charge (3cp total for a ceiling of 18 mortals (all be it super variable)and a 3d6 rerollavle charge looks great)
If you are running Speed Mob you won't be getting the Freebooterz +1 to hit on any Speed Freeks unit anyway. I think for Speed Mob the only discussion to have about Klan is for traits and relics.
The planes still keep the freeboota keyword and gain the +1 which is what I'm after. The speed freek units lose the +1 in favour of the adrenaline junkies but the rukkatrukk already has a +1 so it does not matter.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Do I fail an action if I use drive by dakka on a unit of bikes doing deploy teleport homers?
CaptainO wrote: I'm running a bike heavy speed mob list in a UKGT in January. Thoughts welcome especially on secondaries (more specifically secondaries to take against other common faction lists, admech/IG/drukhari etc). I'll try and post the missions when the game pack is released.
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Speed King (Speed Mob), Stratagem: Big Boss
+ Fast Attack +
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 105pts]: Madboyz
. Boss Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Big Choppa, Slugga
Nobz on Warbikes [5 PL, 110pts] . Boss Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Killsaw, Slugga
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Slugga
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Here is a super secret awesome sauce secondary for warbikers in speed mob…
Deploy teleport homers is one of the only actions that work with warbikers
AND
Speed mob has a special rule that states “each time this unit advances in your movement phase until the end of your shooting phase it counts as having made a normal move instead.”
which means a speedmob is the only detachment where you can advance and complete this action for potentially 4vp per turn but you still can’t shoot except…
…. since your biker unit is bloodaxes you can also use tactical awareness strat to do an action and still use range attacks but it’s not really worth 2cp.
Honestly the only real use for bloodaxes in that detachment is you can use get ‘em trapped strat for exploding 6s on melee on an enemy for 2cp. Which isn’t that bad if you have 2 or more biker units engaged with an enemy. Which if your warlord is freebooter and you are not going to take evil suns faster then yoos warlord trait makes bloodaxes the best biker detachment clan in speedmob since all other clan Strats/relics are warlord locked.
This is a good secondary against most armies however some secondaries such as abhor the witch vs greyknights or TS, Titan slayer vs most knight armies or assasinate vs characrrr heavy armies may be better..
If facing an army whose able to freely delete a warbiker unit at will you might want to try engage on all fronts or behind enemy lines; to the last is okay on some speed mobs but I’ll be hesitant since those deffkoptas have some heavy lifting triggering freebooter for wazboms.
Mega feedback thanks.Very interesting that you say I'd be able to perform actions after advancing with all "adrenaline junkies" warbikers as the only reason I was taking blood axes was to access tactical awareness. You sure about that?. Is that both deploy teleport homers (DTH) and get the get the good Bitz (GTGB)?
If that's the case I'd be more tempted to run the two detachments as flashgitz and evil sunz as you say. Having the warboss as freebootas gives me the badskull banna warboss on bike who is now obsec which is a great way to steal an objective. Access to evil sunz strat, trait and relic would be nice though. I'm correct in saying nob bikers aren't core?
I'm actually considering running the deffkoptas as fly boys for the +1 to save which would mean they wouldn't directly set off the freeboota+1. My plan was to use them or some warbikers to soften up a unit then finish it with the freeboota rukkatrukk to get the +1. Is this too risky?
I plan to spend 90% of my CP keeping the deffkoptas safe/causing mortals on the charge (3cp total for a ceiling of 18 mortals (all be it super variable)and a 3d6 rerollavle charge looks great)
If you are running Speed Mob you won't be getting the Freebooterz +1 to hit on any Speed Freeks unit anyway. I think for Speed Mob the only discussion to have about Klan is for traits and relics.
The planes still keep the freeboota keyword and gain the +1 which is what I'm after. The speed freek units lose the +1 in favour of the adrenaline junkies but the rukkatrukk already has a +1 so it does not matter.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Do I fail an action if I use drive by dakka on a unit of bikes doing deploy teleport homers?
You will fail as it’s a normal movement (or advance move) that occurs at end of shooting phase and happens after you deploy homers at end of movement phase.
Thanks. That means the ability to score 4vp T1/T2 with deploy teleport homer is limited to maps where the deployment zones are less than 24" apart. An evil sunz warlord biker with redder paint can do it but Max's out at 22". 14 VPs isn't nothing mind.
The fight last part of the redder paint would remain off during your opponents turn too.
Why would fight last not work? Not that I think it’s a good idea to waste your warboss on bike to just do an action instead of attack.
You can technically move and not fail as a bloodaxe using tactical awareness strat but then that mean as a blood axe you can’t use drive by Dakka.
Regarding being able to advance in speed mob and count as a normal move… I mean that’s exactly how it’s written.. but you can ask a tournament organizer because most of those type of abilities specifically say “during the shooting phase” only… this one is worded differently and doesn’t say that. It’s written exactly how I stated to include movement and shooting phase and people on competitive 40K Reddit were stating that’s how it works RAW. It may be intended to work that way since that’s the whole point of a speed mob to have your warbikers advancing and claiming objectives.
And yes it works for gtgb and DTH
The one thing that won’t work is the ability to move and advance with drive by Dakka and trigger your 5++ as that specifically states it can only trigger in your movement phase not an advance during your shooting phase. So no deepstriking deffkoptas and triggering the 5++ w drive by Dakka like I hoped.
And no nobs on bikes are also not core (so no faster then yoos) nor does it get the auto 6 adv from big red button or -1 to hit for bikers or the +1 wound the warbikers nob got. This datasheet was horribly not updated. I would say they are still useful in a speedmob if you give them all pks and/or bc and take advantage of thier melee potential but screen them w the warbikers.
I mean take 5 nobs on bikes give them all big choppas move shoot and charge, use chaaarge! Strat on them and you have 20 atks at ws3+ str8 ap -2 2damage for 175pts
If you did the same for 7 warbikers you get 24x atks at ws3+ str 5 ap-2 1dam and 5 atks at str6 ap-2 1damage for 175points (same cost)
The nobs on warbikers wound easier and do more damage to any unit that doesn’t have reduce damage. So it has a place in speedmob it’s just not as good and has a niche melee warbiker role. I like your idea of just taking a single mob of 3 nobs on warbikers and just giving them BC and making them madboy specialist that at least gives them a chance of either being str8 in melee without using the charge strat or get a free reroll.. pilein probably the least useful but it gives you another min unit of obj secured bikers.
gungo wrote: Why would fight last not work? Not that I think it’s a good idea to waste your warboss on bike to just do an action instead of attack.
You can technically move and not fail as a bloodaxe using tactical awareness strat but then that mean as a blood axe you can’t use drive by Dakka.
Regarding being able to advance in speed mob and count as a normal move… I mean that’s exactly how it’s written.. but you can ask a tournament organizer because most of those type of abilities specifically say “during the shooting phase” only… this one is worded differently and doesn’t say that. It’s written exactly how I stated to include movement and shooting phase and people on competitive 40K Reddit were stating that’s how it works RAW. It may be intended to work that way since that’s the whole point of a speed mob to have your warbikers advancing and claiming objectives.
And yes it works for gtgb and DTH
The one thing that won’t work is the ability to move and advance with drive by Dakka and trigger your 5++ as that specifically states it can only trigger in your movement phase not an advance during your shooting phase. So no deepstriking deffkoptas and triggering the 5++ w drive by Dakka like I hoped :(.
Get the good bits- secondary that works w core units
Detect teleport homers- secondary that works w bikers
Both usable by speed mob
Normally you can’t do an action while your unit advances but the speed mob counts advances during movement or shooting phase as a normal move which is when you are able to perform these actions.
U still can’t charge or shoot though unless you spend 2cp as a blood axe to shoot which isn’t really worth it.
1. Krusha armour is great on deathskulls big mek in mega armour, because it helps him survive and keep objective. Or blood axe because he can fall back and charge (but know one takes a blood axe variant hah hah)
2. Yeah fair point, I tend to use it less and less too. Last Saturday against 4 melta gravis dudes it did help a lot a killrig to survive the meltastorm, but in my last 4 games, over the last two weeks, that was perhaps the only time I used it.
3. Freebooter bikers… dunno, maybe ? They could be good to remove chaff and stay on an objective, dunno
4. My meta is indeed also moving towards tough bastards (Imperial Knights coming back, talons cronos replacing wych and incubi builds, etc.), and that is when good players will go counter meta and bring battle nuns and such. I dunno really, but 120 points ain’t much and would do well as a « contingency ». It also isn’t the worst unit against grey knights, and is great in the mirror match against other orks
1. Exactly. deathskull MAmek with Krushin armour survives very good and with kustom mega blasta, he do also an a actual damage.
2. I stopped using it at all. It ' s a trap.
3. Well honestly - it is an interesting aspect of Freeboota trait. It does trigger IN EVERY PHASE so even in Fight Phase. So when my Beastboss destroies a unit (and he can do it pretty easily with BBK), my Koptas have +1 to hit in CC. The same store is with the warbikers. That is is not bad at all! That is the reason squigboss is Freeboota. The another is, that ignoring MW and reroll works better on Bikerboss.
4. I will solve this, when it comes now I have a serious problem with Black templars army. Core are 2 resurrecting terminators units with incredible saves, FNP and whatever (like killing a Squigboss bug on 2+ and x2 x10). Mostly such bastards are slow, you can just ignore them, but these has some strategem +3” move which when operated right is enough to be really bad. I need to sacrifice a unit after unit to slow them down to keep them back. That is pretty hard.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CaptainO wrote: Thanks. That means the ability to score 4vp T1/T2 with deploy teleport homer is limited to maps where the deployment zones are less than 24" apart. An evil sunz warlord biker with redder paint can do it but Max's out at 22". 14 VPs isn't nothing mind.
The fight last part of the redder paint would remain off during your opponents turn too.
All GT maps have 24” between deployments. No exception.
1. Exactly. deathskull MAmek with Krushin armour survives very good and with kustom mega blasta, he do also an a actual damage.
I'm currently not playing Deathskulls, I play Freebooterz, Goffs or Bad Moons, but I don't leave home without a Dead Shiny Shoota for the megarmored big mek. It's a lot of heavy bolter shots considering he should fire 2-3 turns at least, definitely much more useful than a KMB and without Obj sec I don't really need more durability on the character.
I like exploding the KFF though, although I don't use everytime. Freboota bikers during a speedwaaagh are awesome, probably redundant if there are a couple of dakkajets in the same list, but I don't use the dakkajets.
1. Exactly. deathskull MAmek with Krushin armour survives very good and with kustom mega blasta, he do also an a actual damage.
I'm currently not playing Deathskulls, I play Freebooterz, Goffs or Bad Moons, but I don't leave home without a Dead Shiny Shoota for the megarmored big mek. It's a lot of heavy bolter shots considering he should fire 2-3 turns at least, definitely much more useful than a KMB and without Obj sec I don't really need more durability on the character.
I like exploding the KFF though, although I don't use everytime. Freboota bikers during a speedwaaagh are awesome, probably redundant if there are a couple of dakkajets in the same list, but I don't use the dakkajets.
Yeah, it ' s “all or nothing” concept - deathskull obsec single reroll KMB krushin armor (otpionaly with extra kustom weapon kustom job) works great, skip one of these and start to be qustionable. Other option is such heavy bolter variation. What I like on KMB option is the range.
Bikers are definitely redundant with dakkajet in the scope of potential targets and damage. However, they play the different role in the gameplan, they are “boots on ground” holding stuff, scoring points. That is the reason why I prefer them over dakkajet.
I'm having a lot of fun with my Blitz Brigade list. 72 T8 3+ wounds with either Ramshackle or Grot riggers, and 32 T7 3+ wound with the same is pretty oppressive.
The abundance of MW output and high damage weapons has been really nice too.
Similarly to all the other alpha strike lists going around, and my own hybrid Alphork Strike/Speedwaaagh list, it relies on smashing the opponent to bits so that they can't stop you from taking objectives, but it has a bit more staying power thanks to the overall high toughness of the list.
CaptainO wrote: Thanks. That means the ability to score 4vp T1/T2 with deploy teleport homer is limited to maps where the deployment zones are less than 24" apart. An evil sunz warlord biker with redder paint can do it but Max's out at 22". 14 VPs isn't nothing mind.
The fight last part of the redder paint would remain off during your opponents turn too.
All GT maps have 24” between deployments. No exception.
Unless I am reading it wrong, you only have to cross 14" over to start to dth? If it's a 24" gap at all times, getting wholly within 12" of the enemy DZ is just crossing the 12" gap of your gap completely?
CaptainO wrote: Thanks. That means the ability to score 4vp T1/T2 with deploy teleport homer is limited to maps where the deployment zones are less than 24" apart. An evil sunz warlord biker with redder paint can do it but Max's out at 22". 14 VPs isn't nothing mind.
The fight last part of the redder paint would remain off during your opponents turn too.
All GT maps have 24” between deployments. No exception.
Unless I am reading it wrong, you only have to cross 14" over to start to dth? If it's a 24" gap at all times, getting wholly within 12" of the enemy DZ is just crossing the 12" gap of your gap completely?
Well, I was not absolutely right. Mostly, it is like picture one, but than there are exceptions:
I love the center circle map, and the deployment style that has the corners touching one another with no real no mans land. It just means my alphork strike army will 100% be getting stuck in turn 1
To be fair the wartrike can in a speedmob go over 24in unfortunately it’s not a biker :p
14+9adv+2 redder paint+1 and +2 squig hide tyres= 28 in garaunteed move turn 1….
Regardless being able to move 14 and adv 6 for 20in movement allows warbikers to deploy teleport homers turn 1 for 2vp and 4vp per turn there after. There is maybe an exception where you might be able to get a warbiker unit into your opponents deployment turn 1 but you need to deploy some heavy threat turn 1 in order for your opponent to not kill it.
This is where I think a nice 9x warbiker unit with faster then yoos bull charging as a screen turn 1 into combat helps. It either forces your opponent back away from thier deployment line turn 1 or gives you a nice turn 1 charge.
gungo wrote: To be fair the wartrike can in a speedmob go over 24in unfortunately it’s not a biker :p
14+9adv+2 redder paint+1 and +2 squig hide tyres= 28 in garaunteed move turn 1….
It doesn't hit very hard though, and can be move blocked easy enough. Poor old wartrike, ever since it was released, it never really knew how to give A PROPA KRUMPIN
I’m not saying you want it in your opponents deployment turn 1 it’s not really built for offensive first turn strike. It’s really just a harder to kill speedwaaagh warboss. It’s good for speedking and badskull banner carrying.
If you want you can take a wartrike to back up your faster then yoos 9x warbikers w the speedking. I mean all those str 5 hits need as much wound roll help it can get. But it’s also just as good to keep that large base in range of the buggy/bike swarm shooting too.
Does anybody has a BCP here? I would like to see Into The Hellstorm GLADIUS - Courtney Rhodes list. Was second last week and pair killrigs with Ghazzy and Goonhammer skipped details about his list.
Ghaz doesn’t really hold any place in lists imo. Best thing I could think of for him is maybe getting 2 battlewagons, ghaz in one, meganobz in the other, but even then.
Ghaz is just an area denial unit. Who makes makari awesomesauce… but ghaz is still overpriced.
I’m not particularly impressed with that list…
I like the other GT list better.. even though it’s just the new form of freebooter speedwaagh.. I do think the madboy beastboss on squigasaur is a nice way to give that solo hq missile a bit more.
This list by Tarzan had the most battle points and missed being undefeated by 1 pt. Overall orks got kicked down a notch competitively with freebooter speed waaagh is still strong but no longer keeping up with the big 4. Still hoping someone finds a good speedwaagh balance list and/or the Killrig snagga buggy list picks up steam.
Spoiler:
Return Of The Leftovers 40kGT (Sponsored By Turn 1 Games)
gungo wrote: Ghaz is just an area denial unit. Who makes makari awesomesauce… but ghaz is still overpriced.
I’m not particularly impressed with that list…
I like the other GT list better.. even though it’s just the new form of freebooter speedwaagh.. I do think the madboy beastboss on squigasaur is a nice way to give that solo hq missile a bit more.
This list by Tarzan had the most battle points and missed being undefeated by 1 pt.
Spoiler:
Return Of The Leftovers 40kGT (Sponsored By Turn 1 Games)
I mean it’s still freebooter speed Waagh with 9 buggies… but ya there is a lot of boys to move around the board. And I like that with orks.. I want my boyz swarming all over.
gungo wrote: Ghaz is just an area denial unit. Who makes makari awesomesauce… but ghaz is still overpriced.
I’m not particularly impressed with that list… I like the other GT list better.. even though it’s just the new form of freebooter speedwaagh.. I do think the madboy beastboss on squigasaur is a nice way to give that solo hq missile a bit more. This list by Tarzan had the most battle points and missed being undefeated by 1 pt. Overall orks got kicked down a notch competitively with freebooter speed waaagh is still strong but no longer keeping up with the big 4. Still hoping someone finds a good speedwaagh balance list and/or the Killrig snagga buggy list picks up steam.
Spoiler:
Return Of The Leftovers 40kGT (Sponsored By Turn 1 Games)
Warbikers [8 PL, 105pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa . 3x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 3x Choppa, 6x Dakkagun
Warbikers [8 PL, 105pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa . 3x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 3x Choppa, 6x Dakkagun
I prefer to have at least one wartrike if you run a speed waaagh, because he can be the target of -1 to hit stratagem that hits speed freeks vehicles.
The warboss cant put this stratagem on himself because he is not vehicle. And its sad to put it on an actual unit of vehicles as they can just get blasted off the table and thus the effect ends. The wartrike has Look out sir to help him not die.
And given how many vehicles you have id say its a pretty powerful tool in case you dont get turn 1 and want to limit the amount of molestation you will receive from enemy shooting turn 1.
I mean the unit it’s placed on is still a friendly speedfreak unit within 6in. It’s probably harder to kill 3x squigbuggies trying to hide out of sight then a wartrike. But I get why people take wartrike after you killaklaw a warbike the next warbike just isn’t as good in melee and is an easier target to kill then a wartrike. The wartrike is a bigger base for badskull banner and/or speedking.
However the beast boss on squig is even harder to kill then a wartrike.
gungo wrote: I mean the unit it’s placed on is still a friendly speedfreak unit within 6in. It’s probably harder to kill 3x squigbuggies trying to hide out of sight then a wartrike. But I get why people take wartrike after you killaklaw a warbike the next warbike just isn’t as good in melee and is an easier target to kill then a wartrike. The wartrike is a bigger base for badskull banner and/or speedking.
However the beast boss on squig is even harder to kill then a wartrike.
You have to use the stratagem on a vehicle, thus wartrike is the only HQ vehicle we have thats speed freeks.
You cant place it on warboss on warbike so i find more use for a wartrike. When i go speed waagh, i always bring at least 1 deffkilla.
I don ´ t know why to pop up the Cloud of smoke on wartrike. Now we have the squigbuggies in unit of 3. Such unit with -1 to hit is not so much possible to blast of the board and the area covered by smoke of 3 squigbuggies is huge.
If opponent can blast your squigbuggies with -1 to hit and KFF of the board, you did already something very much wrong imho.
Tomsug wrote: I don ´ t know why to pop up the Cloud of smoke on wartrike. Now we have the squigbuggies in unit of 3. Such unit with -1 to hit is not so much possible to blast of the board and the area covered by smoke of 3 squigbuggies is huge.
If opponent can blast your squigbuggies with -1 to hit and KFF of the board, you did already something very much wrong imho.
Depending on the map your squig buggies might not be in the center of your map behind obscurring. Your warlord, the wartrike has an easier time finding the perfect spot to give everyone -1 to hit.
I mean cloud of smoke is mostly first turn use only when everything is bunched up and your taking heavy alpha strike. Once your in turn 2 a lot of stuff is in combat and cares less about ranged atks. 3 squigbuggies or 3 scrapjets are just as good as a wartrike (heck 2x are still better). If they can somehow wipe out 3 buffed buggies in 1 shooting phase then they won’t have much left for anything else to shoot at anyway.
My issue with wartrike is it’s a wet noodle. It’s melee is weak and it’s not particularly hard to kill and it doesn’t even have good auras unless you badskull banner and speedfreak it. The beastboss on squig is super hard to kill w mantle and ard as nails. The bikerboss hits hard as BBK and killaklaw…
blaktoof wrote: Just wanted to add a comment about speed mob since I think a lot of the comments on the topic have the rules incorrect.
The first bullet of adrenaline junkies calls out the unit never gets a Clan Kulture. This has multiple implications.
If your warlord has the speed freaks keyword it can not take klan relics or warlord traits that are klan specific.
You cannot use klan stratagems for any unit that has adrenaline junkies.
Units with adrenaline junkies cannot cause the freebooter effect for other units in the detachment.
I believe that is incorrect. They don't get a Kulture, but they still have the Klan keyword. Like Grots basically.
So they can still take the relics and WLT's and benefit from the strategems.
This ^
Your confusing kultur and klan
No one is saying they benefit from kultur
But you don’t need kultur to have a relic or strat
And 9th Ed freebooter kultur triggers when a freebooter klan kills a unit not when a unit with competitive streak kultur kills a unit.
Furthermore adrenaline junkies is not considered a kultur
That’s important for specialist mobs
gungo wrote: …
My issue with wartrike is it’s a wet noodle. It’s melee is weak and it’s not particularly hard to kill and it doesn’t even have good auras unless you badskull banner and speedfreak it. The beastboss on squig is super hard to kill w mantle and ard as nails. The bikerboss hits hard as BBK and killaklaw…
I use mine to hunt chaff units that I don't want to have to bother the other buggies with, or to finish off units that they've left crippled. The only time I'd expect it to hit hard is against something that can't really hurt it back.
The Wartrike is in a weird spot, because it's neither as bulky or as powerful as the other mounted characters, but is kind of necessary by being the only non-FW means of getting speedwaaagh without shelling out for Ghaz.
Tomsug wrote: I don ´ t know why to pop up the Cloud of smoke on wartrike. Now we have the squigbuggies in unit of 3. Such unit with -1 to hit is not so much possible to blast of the board and the area covered by smoke of 3 squigbuggies is huge.
If opponent can blast your squigbuggies with -1 to hit and KFF of the board, you did already something very much wrong imho.
Depending on the map your squig buggies might not be in the center of your map behind obscurring. Your warlord, the wartrike has an easier time finding the perfect spot to give everyone -1 to hit.
Cloud of Smoke can be triggered on a regular vehicle though, not necessarily on a character unless I missed some FAQ. Just put a buggy or a kopta in the perfect spot and give the bubble to all the other vehicles around it. There's no need to have the wartrike.
Tomsug wrote: I don ´ t know why to pop up the Cloud of smoke on wartrike. Now we have the squigbuggies in unit of 3. Such unit with -1 to hit is not so much possible to blast of the board and the area covered by smoke of 3 squigbuggies is huge.
If opponent can blast your squigbuggies with -1 to hit and KFF of the board, you did already something very much wrong imho.
Depending on the map your squig buggies might not be in the center of your map behind obscurring. Your warlord, the wartrike has an easier time finding the perfect spot to give everyone -1 to hit.
Cloud of Smoke can be triggered on a regular vehicle though, not necessarily on a character unless I missed some FAQ. Just put a buggy or a kopta in the perfect spot and give the bubble to all the other vehicles around it. There's no need to have the wartrike.
i understand that. But you can destroy said vehicles, you CANT destroy the wartrike because he has look out sir (well technically you can but its super difficult). Thats what makes the wartrike super good to throw cloud of smoke on, because he will just give everyone -1 to hit without you having to worry about whether the unit getting that stratagem dies or not, because he wont.
Since the new rules odds are we are going to run several buggies in each unit, so i fail to see how you can completely obscurre 3 buggies as their footprint is huge. Sure you could make a GW style map to play on with massive terrain pieces, but not everyone has that. And those pieces might not be in the middle of the map where you would get the most of throwing cloud of smoke.
The wartrike at least, doesnt need to be obscurred for the most part because of Look out sir. And if he ever needed to be obscurred, hes a lot easier to hide behind obscurring terrain than 3 scrapjets or squigbuggies.
If you play against 2-3 plagueburst crawlers or a bunch of meta styled tyranid armies with 12+ hive guards, it doesnt matter if you have 2 or 3 scrapjets behind obscurred terrain. They will still be hit.
Mark Perry made the very good point on art of war that 2x admech planes can fly over and bomb the trike because it's a vehicle and quiet possible kill it T1, removing your speed waagh ability if he is your warlord. Warbiker can't be killed that way.
Question for people. If an evil sunz warboss on warbike with "redder armour" (so fights list aura) performs "deploy teleport homers" action (I know it's not optimal although he could be protected by look out sir) I know the rules say the aura is turned off. Is that aura turned off until the end of my turn or does it remain off until the action is completed at the start of my next command phase. i.e. if my actioning Warboss is charged in my opponents turn will they have to fight last?
CaptainO wrote: Mark Perry made the very good point on art of war that 2x admech planes can fly over and bomb the trike because it's a vehicle and quiet possible kill it T1, removing your speed waagh ability if he is your warlord. Warbiker can't be killed that way.
Question for people. If an evil sunz warboss on warbike with "redder armour" (so fights list aura) performs "deploy teleport homers" action (I know it's not optimal although he could be protected by look out sir) I know the rules say the aura is turned off. Is that aura turned off until the end of my turn or does it remain off until the action is completed at the start of my next command phase. i.e. if my actioning Warboss is charged in my opponents turn will they have to fight last?
If you know your opponent can throw 2 bomb planes over him and kill him, literally nothing stops you from putting cloud of smoke on another unit.
Beardedragon wrote: [
If you know your opponent can throw 2 bomb planes over him and kill him, literally nothing stops you from putting cloud of smoke on another unit.
The point is not the cloud of smoke. The point is that you can lost your ability to do speedwaagh with the trike.
Beardedragon wrote: [
If you know your opponent can throw 2 bomb planes over him and kill him, literally nothing stops you from putting cloud of smoke on another unit.
The point is not the cloud of smoke. The point is that you can lost your ability to do speedwaagh with the trike.
oh right. But how often are your Look out sir protected character destroyed turn one? extremely rarely.
CaptainO wrote: Mark Perry made the very good point on art of war that 2x admech planes can fly over and bomb the trike because it's a vehicle and quiet possible kill it T1, removing your speed waagh ability if he is your warlord. Warbiker can't be killed that way.
Question for people. If an evil sunz warboss on warbike with "redder armour" (so fights list aura) performs "deploy teleport homers" action (I know it's not optimal although he could be protected by look out sir) I know the rules say the aura is turned off. Is that aura turned off until the end of my turn or does it remain off until the action is completed at the start of my next command phase. i.e. if my actioning Warboss is charged in my opponents turn will they have to fight last?
Until you do the action, the auras are switched off. So in case dth until your next command phase.
However, that is not the problem with the Redder paint. This ability is not marked as an Aura, so it is not an Aura, so it works.
Padampadamdum… This “marked as aura” is really crazy.
Ya aura are marked as auras..
The last time we had this issue was the ork codex Painboy Dok tools… and we argued that it’s not an aura and then it Was faq to be marked an aura..
Tomsug wrote: I don ´ t know why to pop up the Cloud of smoke on wartrike. Now we have the squigbuggies in unit of 3. Such unit with -1 to hit is not so much possible to blast of the board and the area covered by smoke of 3 squigbuggies is huge.
If opponent can blast your squigbuggies with -1 to hit and KFF of the board, you did already something very much wrong imho.
Depending on the map your squig buggies might not be in the center of your map behind obscurring. Your warlord, the wartrike has an easier time finding the perfect spot to give everyone -1 to hit.
Cloud of Smoke can be triggered on a regular vehicle though, not necessarily on a character unless I missed some FAQ. Just put a buggy or a kopta in the perfect spot and give the bubble to all the other vehicles around it. There's no need to have the wartrike.
i understand that. But you can destroy said vehicles, you CANT destroy the wartrike because he has look out sir (well technically you can but its super difficult). Thats what makes the wartrike super good to throw cloud of smoke on, because he will just give everyone -1 to hit without you having to worry about whether the unit getting that stratagem dies or not, because he wont.
Since the new rules odds are we are going to run several buggies in each unit, so i fail to see how you can completely obscurre 3 buggies as their footprint is huge. Sure you could make a GW style map to play on with massive terrain pieces, but not everyone has that. And those pieces might not be in the middle of the map where you would get the most of throwing cloud of smoke.
The wartrike at least, doesnt need to be obscurred for the most part because of Look out sir. And if he ever needed to be obscurred, hes a lot easier to hide behind obscurring terrain than 3 scrapjets or squigbuggies.
If you play against 2-3 plagueburst crawlers or a bunch of meta styled tyranid armies with 12+ hive guards, it doesnt matter if you have 2 or 3 scrapjets behind obscurred terrain. They will still be hit.
The wartrike will not.
There is a point for wartrike when you want a slightly more durable speedboss however I don’t think the speedboss is anymore durable then 3x scrapjets/squigbuggies. And if someone is able to blow through 27 4+/5++ ramshackle -1 to hit wounds in a single shooting phase they likely won’t have much if any shooting left to matter.
gungo wrote: Ya aura are marked as auras..
The last time we had this issue was the ork codex Painboy Dok tools… and we argued that it’s not an aura and then it Was faq to be marked an aura..
Which just means that they had to change the rules in order to make it an aura, because otherwise it wouldn't have been one.
gungo wrote: Ya aura are marked as auras..
The last time we had this issue was the ork codex Painboy Dok tools… and we argued that it’s not an aura and then it Was faq to be marked an aura..
Which just means that they had to change the rules in order to make it an aura, because otherwise it wouldn't have been one.
Exactly
Just saying deploying teleport homers doesn’t turn off abilities not labeled auras like rezzmekka redder paint.
In general, nothing too surprising here, congratulations to the two ladz actually being able to play crusade as their primary game mode.
In detail: 1) Yep, all of us have too many orks 2) Interestingly enough, most people started playing in times where orks were working best. 3) Most of us play fairly regularly with an even spread between people playing roughly weekly and those playing almost daily. 4) It's fair to assume that almost everyone is playing games with primary/secondary setup, though more people use the BRB matched play than expected. In general these four question were just a mixture of figuring out what kind of players we have here and as a safety guard against non-ork players polluting the poll results.
HQs: Mega-Armor is all the rage these days and most new characters are unloved. Both SAG and KFF have fallen out of favor and beastboss on squigosaur is the best HQ right now. The only real surprise is how low Makari is rated despite him showing up regularly in tournament lists. Troops/Trukk: Trukk boyz are hot, gretchin are not. Interesting is that people value the more expensive beast snaggas higher than regular boyz. Elites: Kommadoz are the obvious king here, MANz and burnas follow behind. Nobz and tank bustas are still surprisingly well received, everything else is bad. Fast attack. Everything is good, except nob warbikers, feth them. Grot tanks also aren't received well either, I wonder what your experience with them was? Heavy support: No surprises here either. Kill rig, kannon wagon and mek guns are the big guns of choice and everyone has a soft spot for stompy walkers and wagons. Especially lootas and flash gits seem to have gotten the short end of the stikk. LoW: We have kill tanks and stuff that looks cool, but doesn't do anything. No one likes what GW has done with the nauts. Planes: Planes are good. Fortifications: While people are willing to give the tellyporting bossbunka a chance, the workshop was merely buffs from "helps the opponent" to "doesn't help me". Clans: Almost all clans but bad moons and snakebites are good, with evil suns lagging a bit behind.
in all fairness i tend to purposely play the 2nd or 3rd best tactics anyway because people in my area are simply not wired right to play against hyper competitive lists. Amount of people in my area complaining about my warbiker squad is amusing since theyre technically not that great, just nowhere near bad. (Marine player deploys his gravis armor right up front....only a squad of 5 generics as a screen....no duh they get T1 charged lol)
My issue with Grot Tanks is they priced them wrong. Their base cost isnt the issue, its that theyre adding 10pts now for swapping that bigshoota instead of 5pts in the past. They got more expensive when not running bigshootas, and bigshootas didnt get buffed in a way that matters. Also, lost of Grot Mobz sucks. Thats what i was doing with them, a full squad of Grot Mobz Grot Tanks with KMB's was disturbingly effective heh...
The buff to squig units is actually pretty minor. It ONLY affects Squig units (boss and squigboyz/nobz since killrig is not a squig), so literally unless you are using an Outrider detachment to only have those units in there theres units that get half a kulture. And the S7 Transork is gak. It almost never matters.
I believe the math came out that Goff was roughly the same as Snakebites offensively for squig units anyway.
Its one thing to offer an extra bonus for a certain unit type, its another to strip a rule from a unit that isnt that type. Non-squig snakebites get jack squat, because the S7 Transork rule is nigh useless.
everything looks good…
surprising how many people still love ghaz
He’s probably where he should be but he wants to buff goff boys and they just don’t keep up
Makari issue is he sucks without ghaz… and he’s taken a lot because he’s the cheapest non warboss hq
I’m also guess warboss on warbike is going to be similar rank as wartrike…
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Beardedragon wrote: thats odd i would have assumed more people used snakebites because of their buffs for squig units as a small patrol.
Snake bites are only really good for a full squig outrider detachment and/or Mozgrod.. there is a reason why you see so many goff squigriders…
I mean my main issue w snake bites is the kultur transhuman buff should have the str8 restriction removed and be exactly like transhuman for all infantry, monster and cavalry units…
Vineheart01 wrote: The buff to squig units is actually pretty minor. It ONLY affects Squig units (boss and squigboyz/nobz since killrig is not a squig), so literally unless you are using an Outrider detachment to only have those units in there theres units that get half a kulture. And the S7 Transork is gak. It almost never matters.
I believe the math came out that Goff was roughly the same as Snakebites offensively for squig units anyway.
Its one thing to offer an extra bonus for a certain unit type, its another to strip a rule from a unit that isnt that type. Non-squig snakebites get jack squat, because the S7 Transork rule is nigh useless.
well i would use snakebites with mozrog for fun games in the competitive zone, with squig riders.
But i wouldnt bring them to an actual tournement. As in, you can use them and mozrog competitively, but it wouldnt be "the" strongest army you could field, that would probably be normal beastbosses with goffs and goff squig riders. And by strongest i dont mean strongest ork army list, just strongest klan if you plan to use squig riders.
But true you could also just pop the 2CP stratagem if you want +1 to wound on goff riders which somewhat negates the +1 to wound they would get from snakebites. Goffs do seem surperior on many cases, though i dont think they are surperior in all scenarios. I dont think goff riders excel against T8 units when you are out of CP as your extra hits would just wound on 5s. I think Snakebites would actually be more beneficial if your riders attack actual T8 units. Where as Goffs would be better for anything else. Including if you do have 2CP to spare for the +1 to wound.
On the other hand i understand why bad moon isnt that great, as its mainly focused around infantry shooting, which sucks by not being buffed at all by any of our waaaghs. Unless one wants to RAW -1 extra ap for shooing infantry being transported in vehicles during a speed waaagh.
Infantry shooting dont really have a huge place in the codex because they are too expensive. and you cant use stratagems on them if they are in vehicles, which they will be due to how fragile they are.
There are some situations where you could bring like a single shooting infantry like burna boyz, but the cases where they make sense seem few and far apart
Snakebites are by far the worst klan, they are completely useless outside a small patrol to fit Mozgrod.
Bad Moons in my opinion are underrated. Yes, they're among the worst options for 2000 points games or bigger ones, although I don't think Evil Sunz or full Deathskulls armies are sigificantly better, but in 500-1250 points games they're better than Freebooterz which struggle to trigger their bonus.
Evil suns have a good relic and stratagem, plus they are a rather popular clan so many people are willing to give them a try despite their shortcomings and find value.
Deffskulls have some actual power behind them, re-rolls and obsec are great value, and the 5+++ vs mortals really shines when you face TS, GK or certain DG builds. They also have a great warlord trait that sees a lot of play and building around.
Badmoons are pretty much "meh" in everything they do. Plus you have to paint a horde army in yellow
Yeah, Deffskulls are really a “workhorse”. Do solid stuff, in different fields and do it reliably. Nothing spectacular but this and that, there and there and the result is very good.
Yeah, it's kinda sad to see Snakebitez get almost worse than their previous incarnation since the baby transhuman they have comes up even less than a 6+ FNP. Don't know what would be better than gungo's suggestion, but they definitely need a better mechanic reflecting their rugged durability than something that basically doesn't ever really come up. I really wouldn't want a FNP save since it just slows down the game with all the multi-damage weapons out there and extra toughness is already kinda pointless being at T5. Maybe something along the lines of not allowing enemy reroll to wound abilities or "poison" style rules that DE have? Not sure if that would make them worth considering at all.
Bad Moonz really should have gone all in for better shooting to compete with Freebootas. Give them exploding 6's to hit for shooting attacks alongside their 6's for extra AP for shooting and change their strat (maybe bump it up to 2CP) to work on 5's and 6's instead of just 6's. The extra range just isn't worth a klan trait IMO.
Just remove the str 8 restriction and limit it to infantry, cavalry and monsters…
This means only squiggoths, squig riders and infantry benefit from being wounded on a 4+ on only… The only unit that would be remotely to strong is beastboss on squig and even that’s not a big deal since it’s already t7 and snakebite kultur doesnt stack with ard as nails.(in other words you don’t make transhuman into 5+).
It would actually make snakebite greentide decent! Not even competitive just playable.
In more exciting news it appears chapter approved 2022 is redoing missions again and adding bikers to more secondary activations… this is a huge benefit to speed mobs making bike spam much more viable… my biggest wish for speedmob and bike spam is for Gw to fix nob bikers by giving them -1 to hit, red button and +1 wound like normal warbikers.
ive actually been getting very good results with 30" Rokkits via badmoonz. 3x MANz with Kombirokkits sitting on a midfield objective. That 30" reach means only the crap i probably cant see anyway hiding in the far corners is out of range. And i have been paying attention if that range helps. It does, a lot. Partly because people keep forgetting its +6" but also because legit the tank i wanted to shoot was 28" away.
Nothing else seems to care i'll admit. Yeah its neat to have 24" Shootas but...theyre shootas....meh lol
I initially thought i was going to hate Heavy rokkits, despite firing D3 shots. But good grief my rokkits have been dominating games! 2-3 10man boy squads with 2 rokkits, a 3man MANz squad, scrapjet....love D3 rokkits lol
Badmoons isn’t bad warlord trait is decent a 4+ invul better then junkboss. Mainly better for bikerboss or wartrike since cybork and Krushin armor exist.
The relic is garbage we already have a better generic kustom shoota relic and a better bloodaxe kustom shoota relic. In fact I would say all kustom shoota relics should replace a shoota or kustom shoota. Regardless this needs to be changed. Give me a relic kustom mega kannon for walkers or Mek gun. Or relic shokk atk gun.
Klan is ok issue is shootas suck. Fix shootas and badmoons is decent. Honestly I wouldn’t mind seeing badmoons cater to Walker armies
Vineheart01 wrote: ive actually been getting very good results with 30" Rokkits via badmoonz.
3x MANz with Kombirokkits sitting on a midfield objective. That 30" reach means only the crap i probably cant see anyway hiding in the far corners is out of range.
And i have been paying attention if that range helps. It does, a lot. Partly because people keep forgetting its +6" but also because legit the tank i wanted to shoot was 28" away.
Nothing else seems to care i'll admit. Yeah its neat to have 24" Shootas but...theyre shootas....meh lol
I initially thought i was going to hate Heavy rokkits, despite firing D3 shots. But good grief my rokkits have been dominating games! 2-3 10man boy squads with 2 rokkits, a 3man MANz squad, scrapjet....love D3 rokkits lol
I certainly have noticed that rokkit launchas actually feel like a real heavy weapon on its own now, versus before where it really needed to be spammed in a unit like tankbustas to feel meaningful or on a Deffskull unit where one Nob had a kombi rokkit. Ideally it would have been Assault D3 instead, but it's certainly much more juicy on variants like Deffkoptas and vehicles where the heavy profile doesn't matter.
@gungo, agreed that unfortunately the Bad Moonz relic is quite lackluster. It really doesn't feel like the flashed out weapon that a Warboss or Big Mek would bring. Having a callback to Nazdreg would be nice, call it Kustom Blasta X, where it replaces a kustom shoota or big shoota, and it has 30" range with Dakka 8/6 at S6 AP-3 and flat 3D, and If any unmodified hit rolls of 1 are made for attacks with this weapon, the bearer suffers 1 mortal wound after shooting with this weapon.
Jidmah wrote: It's not specifically documented by the tool I used to make the poll, but it should be sqrt((Sum(value - mean)²/number of values).
Essentially, the higher the standard deviation, the more we agree on something.
Isn't it the other way around? Lower standard deviation means less variability/deviation from the mean?
*scratches head* I guess you're right, but the numbers in the tables are odd anyways. Probably better to ignore it, as you can see the spread yourself by looking at the raw numbers.
I have my first game coming up , I haven't played in a good few years (and I didn't have much play experience before that!).
I'm trying to get my head around how I deploy best. So seems like everyone is Deploying as a clump and popping smoke cloud for -1 to hit. Do you deploy the clump central? In the open? What is the typical first turn aims for orks?
I intend to run blood axes, with a list that's, FGs in a BW, kommandos, stormboyz, dakkajet, unit of trukk Boyz, 2x dred in telepad. Some Grots to fill the troops slots. And I had a naut in the list, but I might swap that out.
My plan was to use the blood axes redeploy to make sure I am 18 away for the +1sv. I was thinking I could start spread, redeploy for the clump and hopefully leave a few opponents units in a bad spot. But this seems counter intuitive for orks. Then push up turn 1 and turn 2 have the dreds and stormboyz rock up.
Should I be trying to score objective points in the first few turns? Objectives seem to have taken a big change. I'm used to scoring objectives mostly based on the number, holding them and the cards you draw. But now it seems like you can score any objective at any time? But they count as actions, or are specific (like Ork units in board quadrants)?
Any advice on how you balance objectives Vs tabling/pushing up?
I'm not the best player in the world, but I would say if you can score points early, do it. It's generally harder to claw your way back up than it is to take an early lead and then just stomping on things that try to take points from you.
9th is a delicate balance of dominating the objectives and denying the enemy the same options. It's something you need to be quite fluid with, as sometimes devoting a lot of resources to kill something that will get the opponent a lot of points next turn is better value than using them to get a handful of points yourself.
Fortunately we have a lot of units that are good at taking one objective and threatening another, or bullying things off of objectives that then don't get shifted easily.
As far as deployment goes, my main list is very fast so I tend to deploy out of line of sight with as much as I can, with plenty of stuff clumped up for cloud of smoke. My Blitz Brigade list is way slower so gets pushed as far forward as I can and relies on there being too many high toughness wounds to get through if I don't get first turn
Afrodactyl wrote: My Blitz Brigade list is way slower so gets pushed as far forward as I can and relies on there being too many high toughness wounds to get through if I don't get first turn
What is your Blitz Brigade list? Do you have a link?
Afrodactyl wrote: My Blitz Brigade list is way slower so gets pushed as far forward as I can and relies on there being too many high toughness wounds to get through if I don't get first turn
What is your Blitz Brigade list? Do you have a link?
It's right here. It's not the most serious list in the world, I basically made it to relive my time spent as a youth making silly noises and pretending that strategies other than "everything forward and smack things on the head" didn't exist
Mythic Miniatures wrote: Kannonwagon
States it may take up to 3 big shootas.
But they don't have any points cost? Are they free?
They're not free but effectively built into the cost of the kannonwagon, so you may as well take all 3.
That's kinda of what I was getting at. I mean, it might as well be worded; it's equipped with 3 big shootas
But thanks just wanted to make sure that there wasn't an errata somewhere I'd missed and they had added the cost in.
Looking at transports for shooty units. The squiggoth seems the best for anything that wants to be stationary but wants to get closer for dakka. So FGs/lootas.
While I'm trying to workout if an evil suns list using bigtrakks could be fun. You get a pretty cheap transport with 14" move, spiked ram, no ramshackle, but for 85 points it's not bad.
I like the kannonwagon. Native +1 to hit on the supakannon. But it feels like it's quite high priced.
Can you transport multiple units inside a transport? If it has a capacity of 10 can I put 2x 5 man units Inside?
Vineheart01 wrote: The buff to squig units is actually pretty minor. It ONLY affects Squig units (boss and squigboyz/nobz since killrig is not a squig), so literally unless you are using an Outrider detachment to only have those units in there theres units that get half a kulture.
And the S7 Transork is gak. It almost never matters.
I believe the math came out that Goff was roughly the same as Snakebites offensively for squig units anyway.
Its one thing to offer an extra bonus for a certain unit type, its another to strip a rule from a unit that isnt that type. Non-squig snakebites get jack squat, because the S7 Transork rule is nigh useless.
Every time orkz get something new you can expect the usual suspects to freak out and massively overstate how good the units/rules are going to be. As soon as Snakebites got leaked you had people up in arms that Snakebites would be the new "best" ork army and that everyone would be running transfungus lists. Didn't matter to these people that we kept pointing out that base orkz are now T5 which means the only use Transfungus has is against S6-7 weapons and some poisoned special weapons. S5 already wounded on a 4, S6 and 7 wounds on a 3 so it got a massive downgrade from wounding 2/3rds of the time to...1/2 the time....and that was it. Plus, S6 and S7 are currently the most useless of the dmg stats since their most common weapon type are most impacted by the plethora of durability rules which are actually good, like -1dmg.
I feel like snakebites could have been a lot more exciting this edition, especially with the new beast snagga models. Sadly they are relegated to a handful of fluffy games and that is about it.
I feel like snakebites could have been a lot more exciting this edition, especially with the new beast snagga models. Sadly they are relegated to a handful of fluffy games and that is about it.
Semper, how long do you play Warhammer? Two weeks? It is always the same = new codex = new models + hype of the new models. In reality, new models always mostly sucks and some old models became kings. You have to wait about two years until another new models come.
It was the same with the buggies. They came and was mehh. Everybody played 9 Smashaguns or 120 Boyz. Now, we have new Dynos and the buggies are the kings.
It makes sence. Why hype just one kind of the models? What to do with the people who don' t like them? So you hype some models like “cool new stuff” and let community to hype himselfs some different models like “meta”. Everybody happy.
Can you transport multiple units inside a transport? If it has a capacity of 10 can I put 2x 5 man units Inside?
You can, but it has a transport capacity of 6. So you can only put a 5 man squad and a character in there for example.
You can and two basic tricks can be done with it:
1. Take a Warboss for extra punch and bonuses.
2. In Battlewagons, takes grots. If the model explodes (it will) just the cheap grots will be slain during disembark + you can use emergency disembark fo 6” for more dead grots.
And the golden rules
= do not make the crew too much dangerous and expensive. It became a target + slain models. Keep balance between the price of the transport and the crew*
= redundancy = if you take the transports, take 2 or 3 at least. If your plan is about units transported somewhere, than you can 't be stopped by one killed trukk.
* 6 MANs in Trukk? = 99% sure of one slain model for 45p
Ghazzy in BW = 1:6 chance of killed ghazzy
Mythic Miniatures wrote: That's kinda of what I was getting at. I mean, it might as well be worded; it's equipped with 3 big shootas
It's worded that way in case you haven't built your kannonwagon with 3 shootas - the official model itself can only slot two in addition to the big FW cannon unless you modify it in some way.
Ah yes I will check the errata for the IA. And thanks for the clarifications.
I was thinking, kannonwagons with lootas inside; for the 6man units. As their range suits and lootas can still shoot when the vehicle moves.
Bigtrakks without the supa, with burnas and kommandos. Kommandos or the burnas can then be the chaff depending on what I need at that time (as I was thinking same thing about vehicle explosions only stating roll for the number of models, it's not unit specific).
Squiggoths with flashgitz and kommando unit. Kommandos being the cheap chaff and a screen hopefully.
But I do like your BW idea with the Grots. Would be a good way to get a battalion troops slots filled without having to take Boyz and the Grots serve a decent purpose. Could even make them the stinky grots. Stinky Grots with autohitting pyromaniacs behind. -1 for enemy and no effect on the burnas.
The problem I have is everytime I look at transporting lootas in something I realize I can spend those 90pts on a buggy instead and get another vehicle plus better shooting with speedwaugh. Speedwaugh really needed to be all dakka, heavy, and assault weapons on infantry as well as vehicles. Would actually give you a reason to use infantry shooting in transports. That or give the speeedwaugh shooting bonuses for infantry in the footboss Waaauggh so you can run infantry shooting support for your green tide.
Issue with lootas is S7 AP1 2D is pretty garbage these days.
AP1 is everywhere now, so its not that special. 2 Dmg is pointless except against 2w infantry, which you can get in better ways (cough squigbuggy cough) S7 doesnt wound anything you want that damage to hurt on 2s, doesnt reliably hurt bigger models yet, and a LOT of things have -1d damage or transhuman these days.
Theres just so little that they can actually hit that doesnt feel like a waste of shots or total overkill, yet theyre still priced like proper heavy gunmen.
It would have been interesting to have them be S8 AP1 2D. Wound things very reliably but the AP isnt the best so it still falls under the semi-cheap heavy weapon mentality autocannon type weapons tend to be these days. And being 2D means thay arent going to be shredding a good chunk of heavy stuff since they tend to have -1 damage now. Also would make them suddenly pretty potent against other orks ironically lol
MrMoustaffa wrote: The problem I have is everytime I look at transporting lootas in something I realize I can spend those 90pts on a buggy instead and get another vehicle plus better shooting with speedwaugh. Speedwaugh really needed to be all dakka, heavy, and assault weapons on infantry as well as vehicles. Would actually give you a reason to use infantry shooting in transports. That or give the speeedwaugh shooting bonuses for infantry in the footboss Waaauggh so you can run infantry shooting support for your green tide.
Yeah, giving the regular Waaagh! extra shots for infantry really would go a long way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Random shower thoughts: Mad boyz can actually given to a wide array of units like the wartrike, warbikers, squighog boyz or flash gits... but is there actually a unit that would want it instead of their regular clan?
I guess you could throw it on a speed mob biker unit if you have no need for any other special mob.
Random shower thoughts: Mad boyz can actually given to a wide array of units like the wartrike, warbikers, squighog boyz or flash gits... but is there actually a unit that would want it instead of their regular clan?
I guess you could throw it on a speed mob biker unit if you have no need for any other special mob.
Yeah. Madboy Beastboss on Squigosaur in Freeboota detachement. This guy really likes to be Madboy.
In my list, I have freeboota and deathskull detach. Warboss on warbike in deathskull for reroll and igonring the smite on 5+. So the beastboss needs to be freeboota. Zero synergy between beastboss and freebooota. However, all Madboy bonuses are cool for him. Reroll? Take it! +1S to 7/8? Cool! And 6” pile in? Marvelous!! This dude is slow, this helps him!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mythic Miniatures wrote: Ah yes I will check the errata for the IA. And thanks for the clarifications.
I was thinking, kannonwagons with lootas inside; for the 6man units. As their range suits and lootas can still shoot when the vehicle moves.
Don' t do it. Kannonwagon is there to sit in the backline and screen and shoot. It is already too expensive to do this. Do not make this backfield blob even more expensive.
Vineheart01 wrote: Issue with lootas is S7 AP1 2D is pretty garbage these days.
AP1 is everywhere now, so its not that special.
2 Dmg is pointless except against 2w infantry, which you can get in better ways (cough squigbuggy cough)
S7 doesnt wound anything you want that damage to hurt on 2s, doesnt reliably hurt bigger models yet, and a LOT of things have -1d damage or transhuman these days.
Theres just so little that they can actually hit that doesnt feel like a waste of shots or total overkill, yet theyre still priced like proper heavy gunmen.
It would have been interesting to have them be S8 AP1 2D. Wound things very reliably but the AP isnt the best so it still falls under the semi-cheap heavy weapon mentality autocannon type weapons tend to be these days. And being 2D means thay arent going to be shredding a good chunk of heavy stuff since they tend to have -1 damage now.
Also would make them suddenly pretty potent against other orks ironically lol
Pretty much. In this age of the new arms race, high AP and high D is the name of the game if you don't have a high RoF, and unfortunately Lootas are basically still using 8th ed stats for weapons where multi-wound models with high saves and damage reduction has skyrocketed since their brief time in the sun with the Loota bomb. I've always felt that Lootas should have had more variation in their weaponry, especially since they're looted weapons and not just autocannons. I like that in DoW2 they had the "beamy deffgun" upgrade that basically gave them a sawed off lascannon. I'm not sure if GW would give us different profiles, but I would even be up for them being similar to Obliterators where they have random stats like S5+D3, APD3 and Damage D3+1. If you have a Spanner in the squad, you are allowed to reroll one of the D3 when determining what the stats of the guns are for the entire unit. This would at least partially justify their current pricing.
Warboss [5 PL, -2CP, 105pts]: 4. Brutal but Kunnin, Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Kombi-skorcha, Power Klaw, Stratagem: Big Boss, Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz
So i went ahead and found my close combat units and made this list and played against a pretty good (well at least pretty decent) Thousand Sons army. I liked the idea of turn 1 charges and took some inspiration from Sempers list. This isnt the best version of this list i could make, like, the evil sunz squigosaur boss with his evil sunz kill rig, but i wanted to try it out for the giggles. This way with my Evil sunz kill rig with Redder paint, i would move a minimum of 17 inches if i advanced.
I also wanted to try using 2x blitza bommers to fly over the enemy and punishing my enemy for going in to a defensive circle to avoid being over run by my horde.
If i had to make this army truly good i would get more mek Gunz and completely remove Evil Sunz. Im unsure if i would keep the bommers or Kill Rigs. Either way, something had to be removed to make room for deff koptas and Mek Gunz.
Anyway, i got turn 1 (RIP enemy) and by the end of MY movement in turn 2 my enemy looked at me and said: If we keep on ill only have 7 terminators left by turn 2. everything else would have been buried under a mountain of choppas
This army with the idea of 30 kommandos, 30 stormboyz and 20 trukk boys is pretty damn powerful, and kommandos are absolute MVPs. So much fury and power in such a small cheap unit with distraction grot and a bomb squig. I kind of wished he had turn 1 though. Also those kommandos absolutely eviscerate vehicles.
My Kill Rig didnt make it in to combat because i blocked him by accident but i also didnt need him. He was a sponge that got shot at. My Blitza bommers didnt do anything at all because he decided to spread out to avoid getting bombed, but by doing so, left himself open to my horde of infantry charging in.
My squig boss never got in to combat and neither did my warboss. And while my weirdboy could buff my guys he will be useless in the future. I was lucky i had some cover i could hide him behind, because he didnt get Look out sir at all because everyone left him behind lol. So he'll be ditched. Maybe i should try out Boss Zagstrukk to aid the stormboyz? Although even there im not sure i like Stormboyz over Warbikers. Sure you get more attacks with stormboyz (because they are cheaper, so you can have more), but stormboyz only move 18 inches, which still leaves you a bit away from enemy DZ. Warbikers at least move 20 inches, though they cant fly. i had 2x 10 stormboyz holding objectives because they couldnt reach anything. Which i guess werent too bad in the end, given someone did have to hold objectives in the middle. They made it in by turn 2 first (or would have if we went further than my movement turn 2). Maybe warbikers really are better.
Ill really have to try more games with the blitza bommers. The negative is they can always be shot down and you dont necessarily get super value for the bombs, the positive is the enemy will actively try not to deploy in a big circle which is what i want. If he does deploy defensively, he gets bombed. If he thins out, he gets over run.
So maybe the units are good even though i didnt get a lot of good rolls off with bombs. Im not sure yet.
Freeboota does help the Squigboss, but not if hes your only melee.
Freeboota bonus is +1 to hit period, not shooting. It just needs to be triggered in the fight phase.
The new "leaked secondaries" for gt2022 are interesting. Slight nerf to killrig giving up 3vp for bring it down. New Retrieve...nachmund data (new ROD) can now be done by bikes which. Will make it my 3rd safe choice for my speed mob army. 3x9 man warbikers will be able to get it done easier than deploy teleport homers.
CaptainO wrote: The new "leaked secondaries" for gt2022 are interesting. Slight nerf to killrig giving up 3vp for bring it down. New Retrieve...nachmund data (new ROD) can now be done by bikes which. Will make it my 3rd safe choice for my speed mob army. 3x9 man warbikers will be able to get it done easier than deploy teleport homers.
i absolutely fail to understand why with the third new book we will have a third new fething name for scramblers.
From scramblers to Rod to... Retrieve Nachmund Data (RND?).
At least scramblers was easy to say, ROD was easy to say because ROD is an actual word, but RND isnt a word. And i sure as hell isnt gonna say Nachmund. it sounds werid. I get some crazy WW2 vibes.
Why because they change the secondary, must it have a new name. And why a name like Nachmund or a sentence that cant be said easily
CaptainO wrote: The new "leaked secondaries" for gt2022 are interesting. Slight nerf to killrig giving up 3vp for bring it down. New Retrieve...nachmund data (new ROD) can now be done by bikes which. Will make it my 3rd safe choice for my speed mob army. 3x9 man warbikers will be able to get it done easier than deploy teleport homers.
i absolutely fail to understand why with the third new book we will have a third new fething name for scramblers.
From scramblers to Rod to... Retrieve Nachmund Data (RND?).
At least scramblers was easy to say, ROD was easy to say because ROD is an actual word, but RND isnt a word. And i sure as hell isnt gonna say Nachmund. it sounds werid. I get some crazy WW2 vibes.
Why because they change the secondary, must it have a new name. And why a name like Nachmund or a sentence that cant be said easily
Nachmund I believe is a place near Vigilus, as in the short lived 8th ed expansion books Vigilus Defiant and Vigilus Burns. Looks like they're planning on revisiting that sector for the next Warzone series and it's highly likely to be tied to the upcoming Chaos release, similar to how we had ROD in response to the new Orks book and the corresponding Octarius warzone books.
CaptainO wrote: The new "leaked secondaries" for gt2022 are interesting. Slight nerf to killrig giving up 3vp for bring it down. New Retrieve...nachmund data (new ROD) can now be done by bikes which. Will make it my 3rd safe choice for my speed mob army. 3x9 man warbikers will be able to get it done easier than deploy teleport homers.
i absolutely fail to understand why with the third new book we will have a third new fething name for scramblers.
From scramblers to Rod to... Retrieve Nachmund Data (RND?).
At least scramblers was easy to say, ROD was easy to say because ROD is an actual word, but RND isnt a word. And i sure as hell isnt gonna say Nachmund. it sounds werid. I get some crazy WW2 vibes.
Why because they change the secondary, must it have a new name. And why a name like Nachmund or a sentence that cant be said easily
Nachmund I believe is a place near Vigilus, as in the short lived 8th ed expansion books Vigilus Defiant and Vigilus Burns. Looks like they're planning on revisiting that sector for the next Warzone series and it's highly likely to be tied to the upcoming Chaos release, similar to how we had ROD in response to the new Orks book and the corresponding Octarius warzone books.
yea that i get but retrieve Nachmund data sounds stupid :( Its not an easy secondary to say like "ROD" or "Scramblers" or "No Prisoners".
I expect this to either just be called "Data", "Retrieve Data" or "RND"
RND looks like it's the secondary of choice for bike heavy speed mobs at least. I imagine deploy teleport homers will become the go to for non army of renown lists due to their access to kommandos.
Engage remains good for orks due to plentiful vehicles and larger squad size.
The changes to no prisoners might effect some lists but the fact most of our vehicles are 9 or less sounds means we weren't stung too bad by the changes to bring it down (minus killrigs/battlewagons)
Overall I think orks did well out of the new secondaries
Vineheart01 wrote: Freeboota does help the Squigboss, but not if hes your only melee.
Freeboota bonus is +1 to hit period, not shooting. It just needs to be triggered in the fight phase.
Squigboss has his own +1 to hit in melee aura… so unless he has a -1 to hit the freebooter kultur is not really helping much.
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CaptainO wrote: RND looks like it's the secondary of choice for bike heavy speed mobs at least. I imagine deploy teleport homers will become the go to for non army of renown lists due to their access to kommandos.
Engage remains good for orks due to plentiful vehicles and larger squad size.
The changes to no prisoners might effect some lists but the fact most of our vehicles are 9 or less sounds means we weren't stung too bad by the changes to bring it down (minus killrigs/battlewagons)
Overall I think orks did well out of the new secondaries
Surprised aircraft was left to still do engage.. that’s a huge help for us still.
Regarding the new missions they didn’t seem to go bad for us HOWEVER
I want to see if we got an admech type points nerf or a drukari type points nerf.
I’m fairly positive squigbuggies and dakkajets are going to get slammed…
However orks have a few units that if they decided to lower the points cost they could become incredibly efficient as well.
It’s not going to happen In Chapter approved but I most want to see is nob bikers get +1 wound, -1 to hit cloud of smoke ability and +6 adv big red button ability. That change alone would make speed mob army of renown significantly better as nob bikers would finally be a great close combat unit.
Are Nobz actually kind of good now? I get that the common belief is a firm “meh”, but they can be Trukkboyz, and they can double up on choppas unless I am misreading their data sheet.
Rivener wrote: Are Nobz actually kind of good now? I get that the common belief is a firm “meh”, but they can be Trukkboyz, and they can double up on choppas unless I am misreading their data sheet.
They're not great at their current price tag. You won't make your list suck by taking them but honestly they don't really fill a niche that Orks need right now, which is more anti-infantry CC. Kommandos do their job but better in the elite slot. If they were troops they would be more palatable since at least they would be a better troop tax than Trukk boyz atm. As is, they're a CC unit that doesn't bring much to the table sadly.
Vineheart01 wrote: Freeboota does help the Squigboss, but not if hes your only melee.
Freeboota bonus is +1 to hit period, not shooting. It just needs to be triggered in the fight phase.
Yes, that is right of course. But only pther melee are the koptas. I tried to do “beastboss trigger the +1 for koptas” but it was so rare I skipped it and go Madboy right now.
Don' t do it. Kannonwagon is there to sit in the backline and screen and shoot. It is already too expensive to do this. Do not make this backfield blob even more expensive.
Not to mention that lootas want to be in mid range in order to get max shots while kannonwagons like to hide in a far corner trying to be out of range vs enemy shooting. They don't really match well.
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Rivener wrote: Are Nobz actually kind of good now? I get that the common belief is a firm “meh”, but they can be Trukkboyz, and they can double up on choppas unless I am misreading their data sheet.
They are ok with dual choppas as an alternative to boyz, they might even be ok with a mix of choppas/big choppas but if you want them doing the heavy work then meganobz are simply much better, and they can also be trukkboyz.
Rivener wrote: Are Nobz actually kind of good now? I get that the common belief is a firm “meh”, but they can be Trukkboyz, and they can double up on choppas unless I am misreading their data sheet.
There actually has been someone placing well with a unit of trukk nobz that were all equipped with big choppas. As long as you don't invest in ranged weapons and keep them cheap, you can probably make them work. The only issue with that idea is that you have to take non-trukkboy troops.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have an issue of my own that I have no good solution for. How do you guys get rid of tomb blades? Normally, I would just ignore them, but they have been accumulating crusade battle honors to a point where it is very dangerous to let them live for too long. However, shooting -1 to hit 3+/5++ with reanimation protocols, living metal and babysitted by a technomancer has become a PITA. Any suggestions?
Surprise! Use this Stratagem at the start of the Fight phase. Select one BLOOD AXES KOMMANDOS unit that is wholly within an Area Terrain feature. Until the end of the phase:
bla bla bla.
My question is about the wholly within thing on a terrain; does that mean that the entire base of every single kommando model has to be wholly within that area, or does it simply mean that all my kommandos must benefit from that terrain by touching it, even though the entirety of the base isnt inside of it?
normally you benefit from the terrain when you touch it even if you arent standing entirely on it.
Because if you have to be directly "wholly within" with all your bases on the terrain piece that does limit that ability a bit.
I took the wording from wahapedia maybe they have worded it differently in the book. i dont know. I somehow recall that the book worded it differently which might change something. Im not sure, i dont have the book
Rivener wrote: Are Nobz actually kind of good now? I get that the common belief is a firm “meh”, but they can be Trukkboyz, and they can double up on choppas unless I am misreading their data sheet.
There actually has been someone placing well with a unit of trukk nobz that were all equipped with big choppas. As long as you don't invest in ranged weapons and keep them cheap, you can probably make them work. The only issue with that idea is that you have to take non-trukkboy troops.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have an issue of my own that I have no good solution for. How do you guys get rid of tomb blades?
Normally, I would just ignore them, but they have been accumulating crusade battle honors to a point where it is very dangerous to let them live for too long.
However, shooting -1 to hit 3+/5++ with reanimation protocols, living metal and babysitted by a technomancer has become a PITA. Any suggestions?
Given that it's crusade and thus less competitive in the conventional sense, Flash Gitz oddly sound like an okay counter to what you're referring to. Being BS4+ base means moving and shooting with their heavy weapons in a transport to be in range of tomb blades means nothing since they have a -1 to hit anyways from the tomb blades. It also means you're at least hitting them on our "regular" typical Orky BS versus basically being relegated to a 6+ to hit unless you're lucky enough to have stacked +1's to hit from being Freebootas. AP-2 and D2 makes them right on the money for the damage and AP needed to get past the armour but not overdo it so that their invuln has value. If you're lucky enough to have the opportunity to actually disembark your Flash Gitz into firing range, you can spend the 2CP to fire again with them to make sure you finish them off completely (assume they're the closest in range).
Other than that, Trukk Boyz Nobz with all Big Choppas may not be a terrible idea since they're one of the few units that could probably catch them in CC.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Beardedragon wrote: Surprise!
Use this Stratagem at the start of the Fight phase. Select one BLOOD AXES KOMMANDOS unit that is wholly within an Area Terrain feature. Until the end of the phase:
bla bla bla.
My question is about the wholly within thing on a terrain; does that mean that the entire base of every single kommando model has to be wholly within that area, or does it simply mean that all my kommandos must benefit from that terrain by touching it, even though the entirety of the base isnt inside of it?
normally you benefit from the terrain when you touch it even if you arent standing entirely on it.
Because if you have to be directly "wholly within" with all your bases on the terrain piece that does limit that ability a bit.
I took the wording from wahapedia maybe they have worded it differently in the book. i dont know. I somehow recall that the book worded it differently which might change something. Im not sure, i dont have the book
It is wholly within in the book and that means you have to have your entire base within the terrain piece as far as I know.
I should have mentioned that I'm running a speedwaaagh It's also not as casual as you might think, the major difference to regular games is less lethality and people not aiming for the game win sometimes, but that is kind of offset by extra CP or battle honors boosting lethality again. After a few games you can also assume that every character has a WL trait and a relic.
Flash gits kind of suck in crusade as well, for the same reasons they do in matched play. You tend to have smaller games and PL 7 is hard to justify in a 25 or 50 PL game, as it's a huge chunk of your army and they implode to someone throwing plasma, autocannons or psychic powers at them. Putting them in a trukk or battlewagon to protect them isn't exactly affordable at combat patrol or incursion levels.
But I do have a unit of trukkboyz, so tarpitting them might be an option. Upgrading a new nobz unit to trukk boyz doesn't work that well as you need to collect 16 experience before you can become a specialist mob. I might also try just driving a buggy into them, I bleive there is no way for them to fall back and shoot.
Jidmah wrote: I should have mentioned that I'm running a speedwaaagh It's also not as casual as you might think, the major difference to regular games is less lethality and people not aiming for the game win sometimes, but that is kind of offset by extra CP or battle honors boosting lethality again. After a few games you can also assume that every character has a WL trait and a relic.
Flash gits kind of suck in crusade as well, for the same reasons they do in matched play. You tend to have smaller games and PL 7 is hard to justify in a 25 or 50 PL game, as it's a huge chunk of your army and they implode to someone throwing plasma, autocannons or psychic powers at them. Putting them in a trukk or battlewagon to protect them isn't exactly affordable at combat patrol or incursion levels.
But I do have a unit of trukkboyz, so tarpitting them might be an option. Upgrading a new nobz unit to trukk boyz doesn't work that well as you need to collect 16 experience before you can become a specialist mob.
Ahhhh, gotcha. Sorry, I'm not very familiar with crusade rules and how it works in terms of progression/cost for unit upgrades so I wasn't sure how easy it would be for you to slot in new units. You mentioned that you are running a speedwaaagh, do you have any squigbuggies at all? Not sure how much a kustom job costs, but a Nitro Squig buffed squigbuggy or even just a unit of squig buggies might not be a bad choice since their main gun has a +1 to hit already and you can shoot out of LoS so it's hard for them to hide from you.
Yeah, got squig buggies, but my math amounts to just one dead model on average, kustom job or not. I might just have to dogpile them with everything I got and pray that he doesn't roll too many RP doubles.
My single squigbuggy has been kinda the reason a lot of people hate facing me in my crusade.
Im not even hiding it fully, just not giving them full access to shoot it back. Its killed like 15 marines each game for me lol
To think originally i had 2 in there but decided to drop one both for more troops (actions are seriously important in crusades) and be less of a dick lol
Jidmah wrote: I should have mentioned that I'm running a speedwaaagh It's also not as casual as you might think, the major difference to regular games is less lethality and people not aiming for the game win sometimes, but that is kind of offset by extra CP or battle honors boosting lethality again. After a few games you can also assume that every character has a WL trait and a relic.
Flash gits kind of suck in crusade as well, for the same reasons they do in matched play. You tend to have smaller games and PL 7 is hard to justify in a 25 or 50 PL game, as it's a huge chunk of your army and they implode to someone throwing plasma, autocannons or psychic powers at them. Putting them in a trukk or battlewagon to protect them isn't exactly affordable at combat patrol or incursion levels.
But I do have a unit of trukkboyz, so tarpitting them might be an option. Upgrading a new nobz unit to trukk boyz doesn't work that well as you need to collect 16 experience before you can become a specialist mob.
I might also try just driving a buggy into them, I bleive there is no way for them to fall back and shoot.
Ramming speed on 3x scrapjets? Mortal wounds on movement phase don’t care about -1to hit or invul. Only 5 mortals so that’s much better in a speed mob… for ~8 mortals instead. Either way that’s followed up with 12x str8 ap-2 (so 5+ sv anyway) d3 atks probbaly hitting on 3+ if freebooter. Should put a decent dent into the tombblades.
Get them locked in terrain with 10x kommandos 3+ sv 5toughness and if bloodaxe -1 to hit… should slow them a bit.
Thanks for your answer. I was fearing thats how it worked.. that definitely makes me less eager to play a kommando detatchment as blood axes.
Even with all these new rules they get, Kommandos just seem way better with goffs regardless
Yeah, it sucks they made it so conditional considering that it legitimately is a cool strat, it's just too restrictive and dependent on the type of terrain you usually play on.
gungo wrote: Ramming speed on 3x scrapjets? Mortal wounds on movement phase don’t care about -1to hit or invul. Only 5 mortals so that’s much better in a speed mob… for ~8 mortals instead. Either way that’s followed up with 12x str8 ap-2 (so 5+ sv anyway) d3 atks probbaly hitting on 3+ if freebooter. Should put a decent dent into the tombblades.
Well, the idea isn't too bad - my current Waaagh!boss is a deffkilla wartrike with shokka hull and roadkilla, so he might get some work done with ramming speed as well.
Get them locked in terrain with 10x kommandos 3+ sv 5toughness and if bloodaxe -1 to hit… should slow them a bit.
He is a fairly decent player and this is his star unit, so locking them with infantry is unlikely.
Thanks for your answer. I was fearing thats how it worked.. that definitely makes me less eager to play a kommando detatchment as blood axes.
Even with all these new rules they get, Kommandos just seem way better with goffs regardless
Yeah, it sucks they made it so conditional considering that it legitimately is a cool strat, it's just too restrictive and dependent on the type of terrain you usually play on.
indeed.
It always puzzled me why Blood axe kommandos arent the best kommandos. Like berzerkers if you run world eaters, Kommandos should be troop choices if you run blood axes.
Theres just nothing so far that beats Goff Kommandos which is very weird.
So I haven’t really seen much about grot tanks (more the mega kind) after the codex dropped. Is there still a place for a 7 skorcha one?, or maybe 7 rokkits/kmb if you really want something dead.
Thanks for your answer. I was fearing thats how it worked.. that definitely makes me less eager to play a kommando detatchment as blood axes.
Even with all these new rules they get, Kommandos just seem way better with goffs regardless
Yeah, it sucks they made it so conditional considering that it legitimately is a cool strat, it's just too restrictive and dependent on the type of terrain you usually play on.
indeed.
It always puzzled me why Blood axe kommandos arent the best kommandos. Like berzerkers if you run world eaters, Kommandos should be troop choices if you run blood axes.
Theres just nothing so far that beats Goff Kommandos which is very weird.
For sure, I guarantee you that if it was an older edition that taking a detachment with the Blood Axes klan trait would make Kommandos count as a troops option. Unfortunately, that's a design choice that isn't repeated anymore in 9th. Similar to how part of the Snakebitez trait gives bonuses to Squig units, I feel like Blood Axes should have made the cover aspect of their trait more relevant like always counting INFANTRY units to be wholly within cover if half or more of the unit is within 1" of a terrain piece or something alongside making Blood Axe units count as being in light cover when outside of 12" from enemy units.
gungo wrote: Ramming speed on 3x scrapjets? Mortal wounds on movement phase don’t care about -1to hit or invul. Only 5 mortals so that’s much better in a speed mob… for ~8 mortals instead. Either way that’s followed up with 12x str8 ap-2 (so 5+ sv anyway) d3 atks probbaly hitting on 3+ if freebooter. Should put a decent dent into the tombblades.
Well, the idea isn't too bad - my current Waaagh!boss is a deffkilla wartrike with shokka hull and roadkilla, so he might get some work done with ramming speed as well.
Get them locked in terrain with 10x kommandos 3+ sv 5toughness and if bloodaxe -1 to hit… should slow them a bit.
He is a fairly decent player and this is his star unit, so locking them with infantry is unlikely.
If it’s a goff detachment iron gob relic can also be funny… although that’s still likely not enough mortal wounds to do much..other then kill 1-2 tomb blades on charge.
Rivener wrote: Are Nobz actually kind of good now? I get that the common belief is a firm “meh”, but they can be Trukkboyz, and they can double up on choppas unless I am misreading their data sheet.
They are firmly Meh.
10 Trukkboyz is 90pts, you get 9 boyz and a Nob with Double Choppas. 90pts of nobz is 5 naked nobz who at best have double choppas.
9 Trukkboyz gets you 27 S4 attacks and 5 S5 attacks.
5 Trukk Nobz gets you 25 S5 attacks.
Durability wise, the Nobz are 10 T5 wounds with 4+ armor compared to 11 T5 wounds with 6+ armor.
The biggest hit, and the biggest reason I don't take trukk nobz is that Trukk boyz fill up a Troop tax in a patrol detachment, Trukk Nobz do not. So the cost to take trukknobz is also multiple CP, OR its taking a 50-90pt tax unit on top of trukknobz.
Even if they became troops they are still too expensive, they cost the exact same as a Tac Marine who isn't exactly renowned for his usefulness atm.
If you filled the trukk with 10 Trukknobz it would run you 250pts and at that point, its less a throwaway alphastrike unit and more a "Must complete its job" unit. I just don't like putting too many eggs in one basket for an alpha strike unit.
I think there's definitely a place for a 10-strong unit of Choppa/Big Choppa Trukknobs, they hit like a truck compared to a boys mob and are pretty durable in comparison as well. If you could deliver them for the turn one charge they would probably pulp whatever they make contact with.
The downside is as discussed, being the cost, the unfilled troops slot, and the competition for elites slots.
They're about as expensive as two Trukkboy mobs, which would cover two patrols worth of troops slots, and they fill the tiny gap between Kommandos and MANz, which fill their respective niches very well.
You would definitely need to somewhat tailor your list to them. Maybe if you were doing a Kill Rig list that features Snagga boys to cover your troops choices, then you could make a case for Trukknobs.
Afrodactyl wrote: I think there's definitely a place for a 10-strong unit of Choppa/Big Choppa Trukknobs, they hit like a truck compared to a boys mob and are pretty durable in comparison as well. If you could deliver them for the turn one charge they would probably pulp whatever they make contact with.
The downside is as discussed, being the cost, the unfilled troops slot, and the competition for elites slots.
They're about as expensive as two Trukkboy mobs, which would cover two patrols worth of troops slots, and they fill the tiny gap between Kommandos and MANz, which fill their respective niches very well.
You would definitely need to somewhat tailor your list to them. Maybe if you were doing a Kill Rig list that features Snagga boys to cover your troops choices, then you could make a case for Trukknobs.
And...the game is littered with -1dmg which negates Big choppas and PKs as far as usefulness. So you are paying premium points for a unit which very likely will be doing as much dmg as Trukkboyz. Honestly, I just don't see a point to Trukk nobz when Trukkboyz are a thing. Which is funny because in 8th and 7th I never saw a point to Nobz since anything they did was done cheaper by Boyz....so we are yet again in a situation where Nobz are just inferior in most circumstances. In niche scenarios they can definitely be useful, but in a meta rich with -1dmg I just think you're better off with Trukkboyz.
Afrodactyl wrote: I think there's definitely a place for a 10-strong unit of Choppa/Big Choppa Trukknobs, they hit like a truck compared to a boys mob and are pretty durable in comparison as well. If you could deliver them for the turn one charge they would probably pulp whatever they make contact with.
The downside is as discussed, being the cost, the unfilled troops slot, and the competition for elites slots.
They're about as expensive as two Trukkboy mobs, which would cover two patrols worth of troops slots, and they fill the tiny gap between Kommandos and MANz, which fill their respective niches very well.
You would definitely need to somewhat tailor your list to them. Maybe if you were doing a Kill Rig list that features Snagga boys to cover your troops choices, then you could make a case for Trukknobs.
And...the game is littered with -1dmg which negates Big choppas and PKs as far as usefulness. So you are paying premium points for a unit which very likely will be doing as much dmg as Trukkboyz. Honestly, I just don't see a point to Trukk nobz when Trukkboyz are a thing. Which is funny because in 8th and 7th I never saw a point to Nobz since anything they did was done cheaper by Boyz....so we are yet again in a situation where Nobz are just inferior in most circumstances. In niche scenarios they can definitely be useful, but in a meta rich with -1dmg I just think you're better off with Trukkboyz.
Yeah, if Hit Em Harder was a strat that affected all types of NOBZ units rather than Meganobz specifically then they might have more of a reason to be taken. Otherwise they're woefully lacklustre against real hardy targets that you ideally target given the Nobz points cost.
And...the game is littered with -1dmg which negates Big choppas and PKs as far as usefulness. So you are paying premium points for a unit which very likely will be doing as much dmg as Trukkboyz. Honestly, I just don't see a point to Trukk nobz when Trukkboyz are a thing. Which is funny because in 8th and 7th I never saw a point to Nobz since anything they did was done cheaper by Boyz....so we are yet again in a situation where Nobz are just inferior in most circumstances. In niche scenarios they can definitely be useful, but in a meta rich with -1dmg I just think you're better off with Trukkboyz.
Yeah, if Hit Em Harder was a strat that affected all types of NOBZ units rather than Meganobz specifically then they might have more of a reason to be taken. Otherwise they're woefully lacklustre against real hardy targets that you ideally target given the Nobz points cost.
I'm not a fan of strats being a pre-req to a unit being competitive. Brings back bad memories to how useless Lootas were in 8th, but how good they were if you sunk like 6-7CP a turn into them.
To me a unit should be competitive and a strat should be a minor bump that gives a unit an edge against something rather then a pre-req to it being useful. Look at Tankbusta bomb strat. Kommandos/Trukkboyz are already competitive, and against Vehicles its a nice chance to bump their dmg potential. I already take these units because they are good, the strat is just a situational buff that is useful and worth CP
And...the game is littered with -1dmg which negates Big choppas and PKs as far as usefulness. So you are paying premium points for a unit which very likely will be doing as much dmg as Trukkboyz. Honestly, I just don't see a point to Trukk nobz when Trukkboyz are a thing. Which is funny because in 8th and 7th I never saw a point to Nobz since anything they did was done cheaper by Boyz....so we are yet again in a situation where Nobz are just inferior in most circumstances. In niche scenarios they can definitely be useful, but in a meta rich with -1dmg I just think you're better off with Trukkboyz.
Yeah, if Hit Em Harder was a strat that affected all types of NOBZ units rather than Meganobz specifically then they might have more of a reason to be taken. Otherwise they're woefully lacklustre against real hardy targets that you ideally target given the Nobz points cost.
I'm not a fan of strats being a pre-req to a unit being competitive. Brings back bad memories to how useless Lootas were in 8th, but how good they were if you sunk like 6-7CP a turn into them.
To me a unit should be competitive and a strat should be a minor bump that gives a unit an edge against something rather then a pre-req to it being useful. Look at Tankbusta bomb strat. Kommandos/Trukkboyz are already competitive, and against Vehicles its a nice chance to bump their dmg potential. I already take these units because they are good, the strat is just a situational buff that is useful and worth CP
That's fair. Having a strong datasheet should be the baseline and strats should just open up avenues of different playstyles or options for the unit versus the relatively mindless "I USE TRANSHUMAN" spam button that Primaris units have.
I guess fundamentally Nobz need to play their actual role in the fluff like being bodyguards to the Warboss and crackin heads to instill order among the boyz. Giving some morale buff like they used to or giving additional protection to Ork characters would give them an additional role in the Ork army that isn't really provided atm.
SemperMortis wrote: And...the game is littered with -1dmg which negates Big choppas and PKs as far as usefulness. So you are paying premium points for a unit which very likely will be doing as much dmg as Trukkboyz. Honestly, I just don't see a point to Trukk nobz when Trukkboyz are a thing. Which is funny because in 8th and 7th I never saw a point to Nobz since anything they did was done cheaper by Boyz....so we are yet again in a situation where Nobz are just inferior in most circumstances. In niche scenarios they can definitely be useful, but in a meta rich with -1dmg I just think you're better off with Trukkboyz.
I agree. The prevalence of -1 damage is a massive factor in how usable nobs mobs are, on top of everything I listed.
They certainly have a niche, it's just that niche is very small and wedged between Kommandos, Trukkboys and MANz, who have far broader niches and are far better/cost efficient overall.
Nobs really do suffer as a standalone unit. They literally don't do anything that another elites or troops choice isn't already doing better, for less (except MANz, but they're waaaay more durable and get strat support). The only use I see for them is Big Choppa/Choppa Trukknobs, and we've already discussed just how narrow that niche is. They need something to set them apart from everything else.
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: Only use I could maybe see with new blood axes is generating ~2.5 cp a turn instead of 1 through the discount wlt and the one relic.
Shame we don’t have many good strats to use it on.
I am confused as i keep seeing you guys casually saying that.
To be honest in my games I burn CP like hell. Tellyporta, ramming speed (on several turns), super KFF, Cut them down, ork never dies, etc... by turn 3 I usually have no more CP left.
It's like we are not playing the same faction
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: Only use I could maybe see with new blood axes is generating ~2.5 cp a turn instead of 1 through the discount wlt and the one relic.
Shame we don’t have many good strats to use it on.
I am confused as i keep seeing you guys casually saying that.
To be honest in my games I burn CP like hell. Tellyporta, ramming speed (on several turns), super KFF, Cut them down, ork never dies, etc... by turn 3 I usually have no more CP left.
It's like we are not playing the same faction
It depends on the list you're using really. I start my games with my speedwaaagh/Alphork Strike list with 5CP and generally don't find myself crying out for more all that regularly. I don't use KFF booster or Tellyporta, and generally I'm probably only using Ramming Speed once or twice a game.
Off the top of my head, I generally need 5-7 CP per game, depending on how often I need to use Ramming Speed and it sometimes creeps above that if I need to use Careen, Orks is Never Beaten or Tankbusta Bombs.
I could certainly do with a few more CP to keep some more rerolls in my back pocket, but games are normally decided by the end of turn two anyway.
Oi! I've managed to get into the finals of my local competitive league (8/8 wins with my current list) and I'm now facing Grey Knights without any previous experience on them. I think I'll be able to have one practice game with another GK player before the final, but as he doesn't play Orks himself I need all the help I can get.
I'll start with my own list. It's made from my conservative collection and far from a cookie cutter, but it's been a steady enough workhorse that boxes opponents early and scores well on primaries. Both shooting and melee have enough ooomph to justify Ghaz and have performed decently against many types of lists. We've ruled the SpeedWaaagh ability to hand out extra ap to passengers as well, which means ap-1 burnas for 1-2 turns. There's obviously no way to change anything anymore.
Megatrakk Scrapjets [10 PL, 180pts]
. Megatrakk Scrapjet [5 PL, 90pts]: Nose Drill, Rokkit Cannon, 2x Twin Big Shoota, Wing Missiles
. Megatrakk Scrapjet [5 PL, 90pts]: Nose Drill, Rokkit Cannon, 2x Twin Big Shoota, Wing Missiles
Warbikers [8 PL, 135pts]
. Boss Nob [35pts]: 2x Dakkagun, Power Klaw [10pts]
. 4x Warbiker [100pts]: 8x Dakkagun
Warbikers [8 PL, 110pts]
. Boss Nob [35pts]: 2x Dakkagun, Power Klaw [10pts]
. 3x Warbiker [75pts]: 6x Dakkagun
+ Heavy Support [14 PL, 200pts] +
Killa Kans [14 PL, 200pts]
. Killa Kan [40pts]: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan [40pts]: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan [40pts]: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan [40pts]: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan [40pts]: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
And here's my opponent's list. I don't know much about them save for the Goonhammer codex review, but I can clearly see he's loading with real bullets here. It's very similar to the netlists I've come by. Dreadknights are good I've heard and so are both of the infantry choices. But I bet there are some excellent synergies/stratagems that make them over-the-top awesome and those are the ones I need to learn before the game. Also, would you say that Abhor the Witch is a trap against such a list? It seems like a one. It's not really MSU and I'm sure killing even a single unit a turn will prove to be a challenge. I struggle to find any safe secondaries save for Engage. We're playing Overrun with WTC terrain layout.
Spoiler:
Grey Knights - Swordbearers
Total Points: 2000
Total CP: 10
Battalion
HQ1: Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight, Nemesis Greatsword, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter, Servant of The Throne, Warlord: Unyielding Anvil, Exemplar of the Silver Host (-1CP): First to the Fray, Relic (FREE): Sigil of Exigence [235pts]
- Empyric Amplification, Vortex of Doom, Smite
HQ2: Brotherhood Librarian, Nemesis Warding Stave, Storm Bolter, Shield of Humanity (-1CP): Psychic Epitome [110pts]
- Vortex of Doom, Purifying Flame, Smite
HQ3: Kaldor Draigo [180pts]
- Sanctuary, Gate of Infinity, Warp Shaping, Smite
So please, give your ideas. List critique is obviously of no worth at this point, but any kind of tactical insight is worth it's weight in gold. I wouldn't bet much on myself here with such a quality difference between lists, but I've come far enough to go down fighting.
I 've tested my list on the local tournament yesterday. Generaly, I' m pretty happy. One nice win and two losses agains more experienced players. Leasons learned, I see how the plays should be played to win so that is alright.
Notes that reflect my experience from this tournamet and couple of games on TTS played before in last few weeks.
1. well, I buffed my Squigboss and motoWarbos to be tough. Mantle and Ard as Nails. Result is very mixed feelings. Warboss dies anyway and both - squigboss and warboss hit hard but not hard enough. Few weeks ago I wrote there, that the game is about “getting over the margins - you charge or not, you kill the bastard or not…” and now my both “melee monsters” are little bit mehhh. Do not go over the margin. See the picture? No damage happened there, I had to shoot him down!
So plan for next few weeks is to make a change
— squigboss with Killchoppa and Bigkilla Boss + Madboy
— motoboss with relic klaw and BBK
The best defence is more offence
2. I ignored the specialist detachements! They are free upgrade. Mostly nothing to build the list about, but if you don' t use the trukkboyz, the “specialist detach” slot is free. So I use
— Madboyz on Squigboss in Freeboota detach
— Orrible Gitz on my only grots because obsec is always fine
3. Yeah… the best defence is more offence! The is the lesson learned…
4. Stormboyz are terribly soft. I hope new CA secondaries open more space for bikers and I will change them for the bikers.
5. Does really worth the points to have KFF? Buggies are 4+ and my Kannonwagons 3+. So againts ap-2 (ap-3) it' s 6+ Save anyway. And 6++ is nothing to write home about… I answer myself - yes, it worth it, but it sucks…
The meta was so alpha strike heavy that you need to weather turn 1 if you lose the roll… and as much as I think the big Mek w kff is overcosted for a single turn 5++. You kinda need it in most lists along w cloud of smoke strat for vehicles to weather turn 1 alpha strikes.
At least in speedmob army of renown you don’t need it since everyone has a invul anyway… certain beastsnagga heavy lists also don’t really need it.
While big killa boss is okay on squigboss… ard as nails is just incredibly good for him.. I agree the mantle isn’t that much more help in keeping the squigboss alive.
Jidmah wrote: Speed mobs cannot have a KFF unless you go legendary
Ya I know I was just saying you don’t need it.. as it’s superfluous. It annoys me to pay 85pts and 2cp for 1 turn 5++.
Yeaaaah, it's a bummer since they brought back the old resin/metal model with KFF and now he's gone from one of the Ork list staples to being a real stinker. It's such terrible codex design for a unit to be gear caddy that is basically set up to be one-use only. At least let him buff Ork vehicles like Buzzgob or something.
Jidmah wrote: Eh, I always use the MA big mek now. Shiney Shoota on a BS 4+ model is really nice, twice so when playing deffskulls
This is the main upside. Up until the Big Mek Strat from SoTB, they were always inferior to the regular KFF Mek, so it's good to see at least the MA Big Mek is a lot more viable now. It is weird to see how much more shooty they are than the SAG Big Mek though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gungo wrote: It would have been okay if his kff didn’t explode and still had a 6++ aura.. even if the strat was 1 use only.
Yeah. Either that just make it a perma 5++ but with only 3" range or something.
I’m assuming they chose not to just delete the dataslate because at some point they plan on redoing the model because pretty much every other non named metal/finecast model has been removed from the codex. (Edit: sorry forgot weirdboy and Waagh banner)
At that point I assume they will add in some more wpn options to the model.
The way they shoe horned the big Mek w kff into saga of the beast I’m super surprised they didn’t have a big Mek w kff model ready for this last release wave….
I also think making the painboss beastsnagga only was dumb but that might change in a future codex.
Jidmah wrote: Eh, I always use the MA big mek now. Shiney Shoota on a BS 4+ model is really nice, twice so when playing deffskulls
Meh, not enough dakka! I prefer KMB + Extra Kustom Weapon. Deathskull of course. He shines! Well… it ´s better to say he blast
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gungo wrote: While big killa boss is okay on squigboss… ard as nails is just incredibly good for him.. I agree the mantle isn’t that much more help in keeping the squigboss alive.
Yeah, that is the dilema I see. What pourpose does he serve? Do I need him to keep alive? Than Mantle and Ard as nails. Or kill something? That other combination.
The fact is, that you can make him to be tough. He gets over the margin. He can survive turn or two and atract huge ammount of firepower. That is the difference to motowarboss he cannot. You can do anything and he dies stupidly fast. Motowarboss is the guy you need to keep safe.
Squigboss can be the guy standing and do not diing.
But I feel I need something else. I need a badass ork hero that slain anything that comes to my buggies cut his way forward.
Personally, I prefer the shiney shoota because I use it in combination with opportunist to do drive-by assassinations with a trukkboyz' trukk. Most characters in my meta I want to kill either have 4 wounds or a good invulnerable save anyways, so shiney shoota is the much better option.
Without opportunist though, KMB is decent. In my current crusade force I have a KMB/Tellyporta Blasta Boomboyz Big Mek and nothing is safe from him
Jidmah wrote: Exactly, but it would cost more points.
Personally, I prefer the shiney shoota because I use it in combination with opportunist to do drive-by assassinations with a trukkboyz' trukk. Most characters in my meta I want to kill either have 4 wounds or a good invulnerable save anyways, so shiney shoota is the much better option.
Without opportunist though, KMB is decent. In my current crusade force I have a KMB/Tellyporta Blasta Boomboyz Big Mek and nothing is safe from him
Yeah, it demends on the role. My Big Mek sits back with my buggies to cover them in KFF and deal with what comes closer. So I appreciate the range. And in my meta, what comes closer is usually some monster deamon or other tanky stuff. So the KMB+ with rerolls works great.
But thanks for inspiration with the Opportunist! This trait has 2 parts. One is short range character sniper, but… the second is +1 to wound againts Vehicles. That is definitely not bad!
The +1 cp sometimes helps, especially since you have almost full control over it. For example your opponent thinks that you will not be able to afford another ramming speed next turn, but then you blow up a vehicle near/with your Big Mek and suddenly you are up to 2CP to make a long charge or deal mortal wounds to something.
Oh yes, you' re right. I've mixed the strategem with the trait.. Well, +1cp could be fine. Exactly like Jidmah says - ramming speed. But nothing to write home about.
Not sure if you guys saw the new regiment of renown that's coming out for Nidzilla players for Tyranids, but it's basically a super-hopped up version of what I was hoping we would get for Dred Mob honestly:
Crusher stampede seems really good. Only limitations are bringing more Monster keyword units than non-Monster, and no models with less than 2 wounds, and losing access to hive fleet adaptations. For that you get armywide 5++, -1D on all Monsters, and Monsters count the number of wounds remaining per model for the purposes of determining model count on an objective. Then access to some warlord traits (pretty decent ones, exploding 6s aura for Monsters within 6", or -1 to hit and attrition tests for enemies in engagement range, or +D3 attacks each fight phase), psychic powers (best one is full melee hit rerolls for one target within 18" for 6 warp charge), and stratagems: some really nutty stuff here like +1 to hit, wound, and damage to a monster that just piled-in for 2 CP, Fight on Death for a non-character monster, Transhuman for any target including Monsters (2 CP to target a monster), an upgraded version of Brute Force for 1 CP (max 6 mortal wounds), you roll dice = remaining wounds for the charging model and if your strength is higher than a target model in a unit's toughness (you get to choose which model so long as they are within engagement range) the MW triggers on a 3+, 4+ if strength is equal to toughness, 5+ if it is lower than toughness
I’m gonna be playing again at the weekend and we’re gradually upping the points so it will be a 1000 pt list. Last time I ended up facing a tank gun line so it may be the case again. I’m going to put my Deffcoptas on the list and people have been getting good results with these. Last time I charged mine at a redemptor and they got swatted (so I won’t be repeating that), any tips for tactics or stratagems?
I don’t play dread mob much, butttt, if I had to choose one immediate thing (or two) itd be ramshackle working on all strength (plus old 6+ reduce damage to 1 on top of it). Walkerz only of course.
DoktaRoksta wrote: I’m gonna be playing again at the weekend and we’re gradually upping the points so it will be a 1000 pt list. Last time I ended up facing a tank gun line so it may be the case again. I’m going to put my Deffcoptas on the list and people have been getting good results with these. Last time I charged mine at a redemptor and they got swatted (so I won’t be repeating that), any tips for tactics or stratagems?
What other units do you have available?
I would try take it down with koptas, scrapjets, Wazboms or KMKs if you're using them; anything that is firing lots of Rokkits or other dedicated anti tank weapons. Anything with MW output is good as well, including Ramming Speed or Bomb Squigs.
Kopta melee is great for chewing through chaff infantry and sniping weaker characters, I wouldn't suggest charging them into a Redemptor unless it only has 2-3 wounds left.
Dear Orky Claus, I was very nice warboss and krump a lot. And because I have already too many orks, I wish somethin to someone else:
1. Mega Dread and Meka Dreads to come to the list of available unit for Big Krumpas.
2. Kannonwagon to get the WAGON keyword.
3. Stompa to get price reduction.
4. Stompa and Gorko and Morkonauts and other huge models to get “count as 5” or similar while contesting for the objective.
5. Big Trakk to became a Dedicated Transport
DoktaRoksta wrote: I’m gonna be playing again at the weekend and we’re gradually upping the points so it will be a 1000 pt list. Last time I ended up facing a tank gun line so it may be the case again. I’m going to put my Deffcoptas on the list and people have been getting good results with these. Last time I charged mine at a redemptor and they got swatted (so I won’t be repeating that), any tips for tactics or stratagems?
What other units do you have available?
I would try take it down with koptas, scrapjets, Wazboms or KMKs if you're using them; anything that is firing lots of Rokkits or other dedicated anti tank weapons. Anything with MW output is good as well, including Ramming Speed or Bomb Squigs.
Kopta melee is great for chewing through chaff infantry and sniping weaker characters, I wouldn't suggest charging them into a Redemptor unless it only has 2-3 wounds left.
I’m a bit limited in what I have to field whereas my opponent has unlimited choice.
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: I don’t play dread mob much, butttt, if I had to choose one immediate thing (or two) itd be ramshackle working on all strength (plus old 6+ reduce damage to 1 on top of it). Walkerz only of course.
Ramshackle is already very strong…
However I do think snakebites need thier da old ways kultur to change to remove the max 8 str and limit that part of kultur to cavalry, infantry and monsters.
I do however think dreads need an army buff.
I think we need a dread Waagh army of renown
This army can include big meks/meks, walkers, wagons, lootas, burnas, mekguns, wazbom and trukks.
Killakans become objective secured
+3 cp for spearhead detachment if warlord in it
Walkers and bigmek/meks gain a new army wide ability “dreadmob”
Dread mob units don’t gain kultur
+1 atk on charge or heroic intervention
Advance and charge to all dread mob units
Each time this unit advances roll an additional d6 and take highest results
The Dread mob warlord gain the following ability:
“the dread waaaghhh!” Once per battle
1) +1 to hit (1 turn only)
2) +1 atk for each Dakka weapon (2 turns)
Warlord trait-
“Da kleverest boss”
(Aura) reroll hit rolls of 1
Kustom job-
“kustom armor”
15pts/30pts- gives a walker -1 to damage received
Mek kustom job-
“Supa tellyport blasta”
15pts- 2d6atks, 18in range
Relic-
“Mega force field”
5++ kff
Specialist mob-
“Da Biggest Dakka” lootas only
15/30pts- -+1damage -1ap to Dakka wpns in unit
Strategems
2cp
“Dakka Dakka Dakka”
Shoot twice on “dread mob” unit
1cp
“Stampede”
4+ chance for D3 mortal wounds on charge per model on a walkerz unit
New Metawatch article is out, and GW sure did a great job balancing orkz. We went from placing in the top 8 in a lot of events to having 0 lists in the top 16 in Austin.
Also, did you guys read the list they mentioned in the article? 2 detachments, 1 with Freeboota and 1 with deathskullz, split almost 50/50 but the warlord I believe was the freeboota warboss on warbike meaning he went with speedwaaagh, but almost none of his army really benefits from either kulture or WAAAAGH.
In his freeboota list the only units that really benefit from that kulture were the two wazboms, in his Deathskullz detachment nothing really benefitted from the speedwaaagh because he was using Grot Mega tanks and a Dread to make up the majority of his detachment.
SemperMortis wrote: New Metawatch article is out, and GW sure did a great job balancing orkz. We went from placing in the top 8 in a lot of events to having 0 lists in the top 16 in Austin.
Also, did you guys read the list they mentioned in the article? 2 detachments, 1 with Freeboota and 1 with deathskullz, split almost 50/50 but the warlord I believe was the freeboota warboss on warbike meaning he went with speedwaaagh, but almost none of his army really benefits from either kulture or WAAAAGH.
In his freeboota list the only units that really benefit from that kulture were the two wazboms, in his Deathskullz detachment nothing really benefitted from the speedwaaagh because he was using Grot Mega tanks and a Dread to make up the majority of his detachment.
I mean it's probably "working as intended" in GW's eyes. As we've mentioned before in previous discussions, the general community and GW itself doesn't seem to like Orks being taken seriously on a competitive level for some reason. We're all goofballs and rainbows until we start winning games, then you get the Imperial boot put on your dirty green neck for daring to compete with the "civilized" races. I feel part of it is that the people who play Imperial and other FoTM factions just are a loud minority that GW unfortunately listens to.
Grot units fully profit from speed waaagh - there is no restriction for them... so a skorcha megatank with 7d6 autohits at S5 -2 Ap is actually quite decent...
SemperMortis wrote: New Metawatch article is out, and GW sure did a great job balancing orkz. We went from placing in the top 8 in a lot of events to having 0 lists in the top 16 in Austin.
Also, did you guys read the list they mentioned in the article? 2 detachments, 1 with Freeboota and 1 with deathskullz, split almost 50/50 but the warlord I believe was the freeboota warboss on warbike meaning he went with speedwaaagh, but almost none of his army really benefits from either kulture or WAAAAGH.
In his freeboota list the only units that really benefit from that kulture were the two wazboms, in his Deathskullz detachment nothing really benefitted from the speedwaaagh because he was using Grot Mega tanks and a Dread to make up the majority of his detachment.
doesnt the new meta article generally just talk about win rates for turn 1s?
In that case, that most are centered around 50% is pretty decent.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bossdoc wrote: Grot units fully profit from speed waaagh - there is no restriction for them... so a skorcha megatank with 7d6 autohits at S5 -2 Ap is actually quite decent...
they are indeed. I ran 2 of them in my previous speed waaagh i went to tournement with.
SemperMortis wrote: New Metawatch article is out, and GW sure did a great job balancing orkz. We went from placing in the top 8 in a lot of events to having 0 lists in the top 16 in Austin.
Also, did you guys read the list they mentioned in the article? 2 detachments, 1 with Freeboota and 1 with deathskullz, split almost 50/50 but the warlord I believe was the freeboota warboss on warbike meaning he went with speedwaaagh, but almost none of his army really benefits from either kulture or WAAAAGH.
In his freeboota list the only units that really benefit from that kulture were the two wazboms, in his Deathskullz detachment nothing really benefitted from the speedwaaagh because he was using Grot Mega tanks and a Dread to make up the majority of his detachment.
I fully agree that GW Metawatch is a bizzare out of this word. It is so absurd I struggle to find the right terms. Is it super perverz intention? Or some absurd form of humor?
There is a lot of interesting ork list in couple of variations. On almost every tournament. Well, it is of course not everywhere like Drukhary. But who cares about Drukhary. They are like Kelly Family.
Agree with Tomsug - outside of whatever fairytail wonderland GW is taking their competitive data from, orks are doing absolutely fine, sporting not just one broken build but three different archetypes regularly appearing in any of the top10 spots.
Even if you look at overall win stats, we are still looking a comfortable 55-58% win rate, which is absolutely fine, almost bordering "too strong" territory.
And even inside those three archetypes (melee pressure, buggy shooting, speed mob), there are hardly any cookie-cutter builds, but lots and lots of units and variants see play. Heck someone just won an even using the foot beastboss and beastsnagga boyz.
This is objectively the best spot orks have ever been in since 5th, probably even better than that.
Jidmah wrote: Agree with Tomsug - outside of whatever fairytail wonderland GW is taking their competitive data from, orks are doing absolutely fine, sporting not just one broken build but three different archetypes regularly appearing in any of the top10 spots.
Even if you look at overall win stats, we are still looking a comfortable 55-58% win rate, which is absolutely fine, almost bordering "too strong" territory.
And even inside those three archetypes (melee pressure, buggy shooting, speed mob), there are hardly any cookie-cutter builds, but lots and lots of units and variants see play. Heck someone just won an even using the foot beastboss and beastsnagga boyz.
This is objectively the best spot orks have ever been in since 5th, probably even better than that.
No idea about 5th ed orks, I play since 8th but I agree we are very fine. Don t forgot to mention Sempers Horde, which is - and I still say it and mean it seriously - undiscovered treasure.
If you use that strat blood axe can shoot and do action and advance regardless if they are speed mob.
Any klan can be a speed mob and complete an action OR shoot… speed mob counts as making a normal move during movement and shooting phase however you can’t normally complete an action and shoot.
Read the second part again
If you advance during the movement phase until end of shooting phase it counts as a normal move…
U take an action like deploy homers at the end the movement phase. You move and advance before you take that action..which still counts as a normal move…
The action from the stuff you listed only fails for stuff that occurs AFTER you start the action. The advance and move happened BEFORE you take that action… speedmob has nothing to do with preventing the action from failing.
The part you are missing is the paragraph before everything you posted where it says you can’t perform an action if you advance this turn. However speed mob makes it count as a normal move. So you can perform that action during your movement phase because it counts as a normal move.
Actions only care about advancing, falling back and engagement range when you start them. Actions are only interrupted when the unit actually advances, not just when counts as having advanced.
Think of how it works in video games - if you are performing an action like hacking a terminal, you need to stand still to start it, and it cancels when you run away, shoot or melee
Some actions are started during the command phase, if you then move or advance during your movement phase, they cancel.
Alternatively if you use the evilsun strat to move again at the end of your shooting phase the action will fail regardless if you are using a speedmob…
Actions have 2 restrictions
1) you can’t even perform any actions if you advance this turn
2) a current action will fail if you move and/or advance after you started an action.
Speedmob does nothing for the 2)
Speedmob does allow you to perform an action during the movement or shooting phase only even if you already advanced.
The only benefit speedmob gives is allowing bikers to move an additional 6in before you start an action and only on the handful of actions that even allow bikers to do them. Deploy teleport homers, get the good bits and the new RnD are the only actions I know of that work this way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In other interesting news that new tyranid army of renown in white dwarf… is insanely overpowered.. it’s bringing back monster mash and making those units incredibly resilent and with much more offense.
The good news it’s a monster heavy list and might make those beastsnagga Killrig lists better. Not good for pks though since everything will have -1dam reduction.
Does anyone still use 20 boyz in battlewagons? I had a game today where I had 3 units of 20 boyz in wagons, and they did great!
Boyz may be expensive, and have had all their support strats and rules removed but they still hit very hard when you can dictate the charge.
I had a squad of 20 wipe out a 10 man crusader squad when I used the interrupt strat, and the goff exploding hits on 5s and 6s strat.
My experience in the last few months with boyz is that they are not good on foot anymore, at least in big mobz, but are still really good in transports.
Heafstaag wrote: Does anyone still use 20 boyz in battlewagons? I had a game today where I had 3 units of 20 boyz in wagons, and they did great!
Boyz may be expensive, and have had all their support strats and rules removed but they still hit very hard when you can dictate the charge.
I had a squad of 20 wipe out a 10 man crusader squad when I used the interrupt strat, and the goff exploding hits on 5s and 6s strat.
My experience in the last few months with boyz is that they are not good on foot anymore, at least in big mobz, but are still really good in transports.
Boyz definitely still have a use as Trukk Boyz, I can also see boyz being okay when being used in battlewagons in a more semi-competitive environment. The only problem with boyz in battlewagons is that they can't take advantage of the mobility from being Trukk Boyz and Being in a unit of 20 has very little benefit besides gaining buffs from psychic powers and some fringe strats you might want to use like the Goffs one you mentioned. I would actually say that having two units of 10 might be better since it gives you more flexibility for moving onto different objectives and splitting enemy fire once they've disembarked. You also get another Nob for better quality attacks.
They work fine against CC oriented armies with no fight first spam. Against marines that don't have tons of meltas battlewagons are great, so are charging Goffs boyz. Fight first/fight last tricks might invalidate their tactics completely though.
3x wagon boyz is a massive investment of over 1000 points for pure melee standard/average units. I don't think they're trash but I prefer fielding a single Forktress wagon with 10 boyz + 5 meganobz, which is already a significant points sink.
Boyz on foot are to be avoided completely, outside maybe cheap 10 man squads if you lack the models for the cheaper specialists.
So, went to a semi casual tourney. Took a 1K snakebites/beastnagga list. Every game a pair of killrigs and a saurboss performed reliably. 2 units of 3 squigboyz did okay when they hit but frequently took the alpha strike from the enemy. Came second by 1 point once everything was said and done.
But that brings me to 2 questions.
The BBK boss with Kill choppa. Would it be better to take beasthide mantle instead? Both for damage output and durability. The pip of AP, potential for a mortal wound here or there and double strength is nice, but taking mantle means you get 2 more attacks, a total of 8 under waaagh. Your banking on BBK to pump up the reliability right, and taking goffs gives more potential for exploding 6s, or snakebites helps counteract the lower strength. (though wounding pretty much everything on 2s is pretty nice) Anyone know the math hammer for a definitive answer?
Also, secondaries, bloody hell I still suck at secondaries. The 30 grots I took let me get da good bitz on a few missions, but it very much feels like one of those secondaries that you do great if you take initiative, and fail utterly if your opponent pushes forward because it takes maybe 3 turns to start actually getting the points. A cheap weirdboy for interrogation seems okay if you're already overwhelming any deny attempts with the witchfire spam of the killrigs. (which i still love by the way, any support characters have a solid chance of just being blown away by squiggly curse, biting jawz and frazzle combo)
Is there any real benifit of stomp em good vs grind them down? Seems kinda like a bit of a downgrade since it's combat only.
Is there any real benifit of stomp em good vs grind them down? Seems kinda like a bit of a downgrade since it's combat only.
It works astonishingly well if you bring an all-grot-army led by Ghazghkull - as long as Ghazzie or the Killa kans kill anything, you score 4 points, unless Ghazzie is also slain (though I lost all 3 games at that tourney, I was able to score 15 twice and 12 once for that objective...). Apart from that borderline case, I dunno...
I would give a battle report but honestly I don’t think it will tell us anything. My buddy seems to be struggling to develop as a player, I was expecting to face a tank gun line again but was pleasantly surprised to see plenty of infantry and a storm talon & redemptor. Sadly though my buddy tried to follow the same strategy to castle up in his DZ and prevent me getting up the table, which wasn’t going to happen. I kept him occupied in his DZ, wiped his stormtalon with my twin traktor kannons and held both mid table objectives all game while harassing his infantry with my squigs.
Was happy my warboss got to murder some marines this time
Automatically Appended Next Post: I felt so bad I was actually advising him at the end.
I would give a battle report but honestly I don’t think it will tell us anything. My buddy seems to be struggling to develop as a player, I was expecting to face a tank gun line again but was pleasantly surprised to see plenty of infantry and a storm talon & redemptor. Sadly though my buddy tried to follow the same strategy to castle up in his DZ and prevent me getting up the table, which wasn’t going to happen. I kept him occupied in his DZ, wiped his stormtalon with my twin traktor kannons and held both mid table objectives all game while harassing his infantry with my squigs.
Was happy my warboss got to murder some marines this time
Automatically Appended Next Post: I felt so bad I was actually advising him at the end.
Not necessarily a bad thing. The fact that they adapted their list to make up the shortcomings of their previous one shows that they're learning. It took me a very long time to get out of the "just charge forward into melee" mindset with my orks when I was a yoof, and the "sit still and shoot" with my guard.
I would give a battle report but honestly I don’t think it will tell us anything. My buddy seems to be struggling to develop as a player, I was expecting to face a tank gun line again but was pleasantly surprised to see plenty of infantry and a storm talon & redemptor. Sadly though my buddy tried to follow the same strategy to castle up in his DZ and prevent me getting up the table, which wasn’t going to happen. I kept him occupied in his DZ, wiped his stormtalon with my twin traktor kannons and held both mid table objectives all game while harassing his infantry with my squigs.
Was happy my warboss got to murder some marines this time
Automatically Appended Next Post: I felt so bad I was actually advising him at the end.
Not necessarily a bad thing. The fact that they adapted their list to make up the shortcomings of their previous one shows that they're learning. It took me a very long time to get out of the "just charge forward into melee" mindset with my orks when I was a yoof, and the "sit still and shoot" with my guard.
How long have they been in the hobby for?
Well we both used to play together in the rogue trader days many years ago but we started playing again in 9th, he has been playing a year and I have been playing 6 months. I still just charge forward into melee but I have got a bit better at using distraction to tie up his shooting whilst my melee monsters thread through the scenery out of LOS
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also only I was using stratagems. I don’t remember him using one
Sorry if this was posted already but I was wondering if there is any advice I could get for setting my Boyz against some custodes. I'm facing my friend who plays them and I don't wanna lose right away.
Kookiekiller616 wrote: Sorry if this was posted already but I was wondering if there is any advice I could get for setting my Boyz against some custodes. I'm facing my friend who plays them and I don't wanna lose right away.
Honestly, just massed S5-7 shooting and then bodies to eat objectives.
He'll have to work to keep you from winning.
You dont have to move because you advanced. even 0,00001 inch. You advance the moment you roll for it. Whether you stand still afterwards is irrelevant.
However you still have to be able to roll your advance roll, which you cant do in CC. If you cant roll your advance roll, you cant advance, even if you intended to stand still.
Furthermore, how did you roll an advance roll to get 5++ if you went second?
You dont have to move because you advanced. even 0,00001 inch. You advance the moment you roll for it. Whether you stand still afterwards is irrelevant.
However you still have to be able to roll your advance roll, which you cant do in CC. If you cant roll your advance roll, you cant advance, even if you intended to stand still.
Furthermore, how did you roll an advance roll to get 5++ if you went second?
Im unsure if i fully understand what you mean.
I think this is spot on. As soon as you roll the die, you advance, and there quite some constellations where a unit ends up not advancing because they aren't allowed to. You also need to keep in mind that you only count as stationary until the shooting phase, in the charge phase you normally do not have permission to charge when you have advanced.
The 5++ only triggers in the movement phase… so the evil suns strategem that allows you to advance at the end of the shooting phase as if it was the movement phase won’t trigger the 5++.
It seems freebooter speedwaagh is still doing okay as is goff beastsnagga pressure lists.. speedmob army of renown is doing okay but it really depends on what secondaries are available with the new chapter approved.. as that’s one of its biggest limitations right now.
Honestly I think goff beastsnagga pressure lists might be getting a leg up due to all the vehicles and monsters about to flood the meta… the new tyranid monster mash army of renown is going to be insanely strong and popular.
Heafstaag wrote: Does anyone still use 20 boyz in battlewagons? I had a game today where I had 3 units of 20 boyz in wagons, and they did great!
Boyz may be expensive, and have had all their support strats and rules removed but they still hit very hard when you can dictate the charge.
I had a squad of 20 wipe out a 10 man crusader squad when I used the interrupt strat, and the goff exploding hits on 5s and 6s strat.
My experience in the last few months with boyz is that they are not good on foot anymore, at least in big mobz, but are still really good in transports.
Do I still use them? Competitively? Absolutely not. Battlewagons are heavily over priced for what they bring to the table compared to almost anyone else's "big" transport. Boyz are as you mentioned, likewise overly expensive for what they can do. But here is the kicker, 20 goff Boyz on the charge, during a WAAAGH turn get 80 attacks, 66(ish) hits, 44 wounds and 22dmg vs a Marine unit, if you can get them ALL into CC. Sounds good right? 22dmg is 11 dead Marines or 220pts. But 20 Boyz alone is 180pts, add in the battlewagon and its 300pts (315 if you take "ard case", 330 if you take deffrolla etc)
So your 300pt unit did feth all turn 1 except eat firepower and turn 2 it disgorged its cargo which murdered a Unit of Marines. On your opponents turn they are almost assuredly going to get gunned down. What is worse is Marines don't usually take squads bigger than 5, so in most circumstances, barring multi-charges, your 300pt CC unit is going to end up killing 100pts of Marines and then be left in the open.
That is why I prefer Trukk Boyz, because at absolute worst case scenario, they only have to eat 1 turn of enemy firepower compared to wagons possibly having to eat 2, and if your opponent is running anti-tank units like MMs or cognis lascannons you are going to have a bad day. Not to mention, I can take 2 units of trukk boyz for about the same cost as a single unit of Boyz in a battlewagon which overloads the enemies ability to deal with multiple threats. Remember, Orkz excel with redundancy and target saturation, we overload an armies ability to deal with a specific type of threat and maximize the dmg output by forcing the opponent to use the incorrect weapons on the highest threat to his army. I've literally had games where my opponent was putting anti-tank firepower into my Kommandos because normal guns tend to not be very effective against T5 3+ armor in cover.
5 man squads sure, but some of them are very hard to kill due to T5 3W. Trukk boyz are a completely different unit, they just go for tarpit something while if you invest in 20 boyz and a battlewagon you want both the boyz and the transport to deal a significant amount of damage.
Two trukks under the KFF are indeed much harder to kill than a battlewagon (which will likely have the Forktress kustom job anyway) while also a bit cheaper, although they have no melee ability at all.
A battlewagon works on in a vehicle based list, I use it pretty often in combination with a couple of trukk boyz bombs. Although vehicle + cargo is 450ish points (I typically fill it with meganobz and grots) it's not always selected as a priority. What really scares people are the flyers, koptas and buggies. Mek gunz and kommandos are also prioritized quite often in my games and they both use to soak some anti tank as well. If the wagon is prioritized good for the other units!
Personally, the main reason to play troops of any kind for me is so I don't have to pay CP for my first detachment.
So if I run a battlewagon with boyz, I see little reason to not make them beastsnagga boyz as they have more punch per model in combat - at which point you could drop the battlewagon and play a kill rig instead. If you don't have a kill rig, I'd still go for just 10 boyz and fill up the rest of the wagon with MANz, burnas or nobz.
Tomsug wrote: And if you have a battlewagon and don ' t have a killrig, just convert some killrig extension on this battlewagon….
I'm getting this thing printed as a kill rig:
Spoiler:
... at least I plan to sometime in the future. Still need to build more kommandoz and beastsnaggas boyz, for the first time ever I actually have a pile of shame.
Congrats. When building it, keep in mind that it's super easy to magnetize for both the beastboss and the named character, so don't waste that opportunity.
Jidmah wrote: Congrats. When building it, keep in mind that it's super easy to magnetize for both the beastboss and the named character, so don't waste that opportunity.
Thanks for the tip Now I just need to get Kommandos, what are people using?
For kommandos I have
10 of the new ones
5 of the resin old ones
6 of the forgeworld conversion kit ones (one is really a kommando nob w big choppa)
5 of the really old metal ones (3rd Ed?)
I also have 1x old metal burna kommando
DoktaRoksta wrote: Now I just need to get Kommandos, what are people using?
Slugga/choppa boyz with ammo backpacks(big shoota boy, nobz box, spannas), assorted kommando-looking heads (burnas, battlewagon crew and plane pilots work well) and then paint their should pads in camouflage.
I mean you can find the old forgeworld conversion kit online still.
It literally turns the old plastic boyz into pretty awesome looking kommandos but it’s essentially just backpacks and head swaps
gungo wrote: I mean you can find the old forgeworld conversion kit online still.
It literally turns the old plastic boyz into pretty awesome looking kommandos but it’s essentially just backpacks and head swaps
Even back then, the FW kit was mostly considered a waste of money and you didn't have 3rd party suppliers printing those things left and right
I totally love the new kommadoz kit though - I'll just buy a second box and combine them with a box of old boyz to make 30.
For kommandos I just go with old choppa boyz (maybe more backpacks and kitted more for melee) and just paint their skin shyish purple on white primer. They go hard. (Purple is a reference to the fan theory that ork camo is purple, as you've never seen purple orks.)
Had a fun game yesterday against Black Templars und used a slightly different version of sempers 3 patrol Goff Alphork List.
My army:
Spoiler:
Beastboss (Warlord: Beasthide Mantle & Proper Killy)
Warboss on Bike (Killklaw & BBK)
MA Warboss (Krushin Armour & Might is Right)
3 x 3 Deffkoptas
3 x Trukkboys in Trukks
3 x 10 Kommandos
5 Stormboys
3 x Mek Gun
1 Shockjump Dragsta
Opponent had the usual BT 5++ / Mini Transhuman stuff:
Spoiler:
Beefed up Chaplain on Bike
Super Apothecary
Techmarine with some auras
3 Redemptors
10 VanVets
5 Bladeguard
2 x 5 Incursors
5 Intercessors
3 Attack Bikes
1 Impulsor
I went for Engage, No Prisoners and Assassinate, he took Grind them Down, Bring it Down and Raise the banners.
I deployed very aggressivly with my kommandos but was able to hide all the other stuff.
Sadly he went first and his Bladeguard, VanVets and Chaplain took the "bait" and killed most of my kommandos, but then i was able to charge most of my stuff with Waaagh in my turn.
I wiped out 5 Incursors, 5 Intercessors and killed 3 Bladeguards und 8 VanVets. My Koptas rolled like hot garbage and his saves were on fire, otherwise i would have killed the Bladeguard and the VenVets (Who were attacked by 6 Koptas, both Warbosses and 10 Trukkboys. :()
My other Koptas killed 2 Attack Bikes and the last Bike had 1 wound remaining.
In his second turn he healed 1 Bike and revived the other. Those 3 went for the Beastboss who miracolously survived 4 Melta wounds and the close combat attacks with 1 wound and killed the 3 Trikes - mostly because his good boy of a squig rolled two 6s to wound. His Contemptors continued to lay down some mean dakka and turn 1 + 2 he killed 2 Trukks, 1 Dragsta, 2 Mek Guns and about 30 Boys & Kommandos while saving all the D6 shots of mine with lots of 5++ rolls.
Two of my vehicles exploded which killed the Warbike Warboss and helped him to kill my stuff with 10+ MW`s on my own stuff.
But at least my Boys, Koptas and Warbosses managed to finish off his Bladeguard and VanVets while the remaining Mek Gun, Kommandos and Stormboys scored good on engage and helped a lot to max out Primaries.
My Squigboss with 1 wound remaining managed to kill his remaining Incursors to take away one of his objectives while the Koptas blasted away his Apothecary.
His 3rd turn he had his Chaplain, Techmarine, Impulsor and the 3 Redemptors left, i had my Squigboss, the MA Warboss, 1 Mek Gun, 1 Trukk, 10 Trukkboys, 5 Stormboys, 5 Koptas and 1 Kommando left.
He managed to kill the remaining Koptas, the Stormboys and the Squigboss, in my 3rd turn i finished off his Chaplain with the MA Warboss and scored a bit more on secondaries.
His 4th turn he killed everything but 1 Trukk, 1 Kommando, 5 Trukkboys and the Mek Gun, i could do nothing more then shoot down his Impulsor with my Mek Gun (finally getting through that annoying 5++s rolls).
His 5th turn he killed everything but the 1 Mek Gun which had 3 wounds remaining and scored my final 5 points for Primaries.
He had his 3 Redemptors and the Techmarine left but in the end i won 77:71. To be fair he made one mistake to choose banners, which scored just 1 point total. If he had just gone for Engage he would have ended up with 80+ points and won the game - lucky me!
(But to be fair, i focused on his infantry and the objectives to prevant lots of banner points, otherwise i would have concentrated more on killing his nasty Redemptors.
Overall great game with lots of fun close combat action and difficult decisions on both sides. Would have gone a lot better without his glorious invulns but overall it went great.
Thinking about skipping the Dragsta for Warbikes instead next time, i just wanted some extra anti tank but the Dragsta did nothing besides exploding and giving the Warboss 3 MW`s and some more on my other stuff.^^
Would love the add 1-3 more Mek Guns as they are really solid but that poor morale is basicly a 50:50 chance to loose another Mek Gun for each loss.
Maybe add another squad of Stormboys to help a bit with engage if i struggle to properly krump the opponent with my alpha strike, Engage and solid work on the Primaries safed the day after all.
3 KMKs and 9 koptas are already pretty solid anti tank. I wouldn't increase the number of mek gunz due to morale issues, as you noticed as well.
You could add a bomb squig to each squad of kommandos instead, it's just 15 points for some mortal wounds. Squighog boyz can have them as well, and you may prefer them over the bikes.
Yeah I had Bomb Squigs on my Kommandos but they lack range sometimes.
My Koptas are tied up in cc a lot and since I played them often they tend to get focused by my regular opponents. :(
I love the Wazbom, but since he gets one-shotted as soon as the opponent has the chance that means onother 2 CP for strategic reserve.
Good call about the Squigriders, only problem about that is I have only painted Warbikes so far and no Squiggos. But they are way up in my to do list and will be a good alternative to the Warbikes, especially if you go for Waaagh instead of Speedwaaagh. Guess I will try a mix of Bikes and Squigriders soon as they sacrifice speed for the extra punch.
I have even considered a (mini) Mek with inspiring leader to babysit a few Mek Guns. Who'd thought.
Maybe not highly competitive but might be okish for the semi competitive games and a chance for all them Mek Gunz from 8th edition to see the table again.
At least you can hide them behind obscuring and sneak around the edge turn one.
Oh and btw, that Bladeguard Seargent with 4 wounds, ignoring AP 1 & 2 and an Apo in his back was a real pain for that list. Good thing his only bad saves were the 2+ ones for this dude, otherwise he would have been a royal pain in the ass.
I wonder how that list would fare against stuff that ignores AP 1 & 2 a lot, I think there is 1 sisters build out there that does that?
But I guess I will be experiment more with Alphork lists because I and my regular opponents grew kinda tired of the buggy speedwaaagh.
Had a fun game yesterday against Black Templars und used a slightly different version of sempers 3 patrol Goff Alphork List.
My army:
Beastboss (Warlord: Beasthide Mantle & Proper Killy)
Warboss on Bike (Killklaw & BBK)
MA Warboss (Krushin Armour & Might is Right)
3 x 3 Deffkoptas
3 x Trukkboys in Trukks
3 x 10 Kommandos
5 Stormboys
3 x Mek Gun
1 Shockjump Dragsta
Opponent had the usual BT 5++ / Mini Transhuman stuff:
Beefed up Chaplain on Bike
Super Apothecary
Techmarine with some auras
3 Redemptors
10 VanVets
5 Bladeguard
2 x 5 Incursors
5 Intercessors
3 Attack Bikes
1 Impulsor
I went for Engage, No Prisoners and Assassinate, he took Grind them Down, Bring it Down and Raise the banners.
I deployed very aggressivly with my kommandos but was able to hide all the other stuff.
Sadly he went first and his Bladeguard, VanVets and Chaplain took the "bait" and killed most of my kommandos, but then i was able to charge most of my stuff with Waaagh in my turn.
I wiped out 5 Incursors, 5 Intercessors and killed 3 Bladeguards und 8 VanVets. My Koptas rolled like hot garbage and his saves were on fire, otherwise i would have killed the Bladeguard and the VenVets (Who were attacked by 6 Koptas, both Warbosses and 10 Trukkboys. :()
My other Koptas killed 2 Attack Bikes and the last Bike had 1 wound remaining.
In his second turn he healed 1 Bike and revived the other. Those 3 went for the Beastboss who miracolously survived 4 Melta wounds and the close combat attacks with 1 wound and killed the 3 Trikes - mostly because his good boy of a squig rolled two 6s to wound. His Contemptors continued to lay down some mean dakka and turn 1 + 2 he killed 2 Trukks, 1 Dragsta, 2 Mek Guns and about 30 Boys & Kommandos while saving all the D6 shots of mine with lots of 5++ rolls.
Two of my vehicles exploded which killed the Warbike Warboss and helped him to kill my stuff with 10+ MW`s on my own stuff.
But at least my Boys, Koptas and Warbosses managed to finish off his Bladeguard and VanVets while the remaining Mek Gun, Kommandos and Stormboys scored good on engage and helped a lot to max out Primaries.
My Squigboss with 1 wound remaining managed to kill his remaining Incursors to take away one of his objectives while the Koptas blasted away his Apothecary.
His 3rd turn he had his Chaplain, Techmarine, Impulsor and the 3 Redemptors left, i had my Squigboss, the MA Warboss, 1 Mek Gun, 1 Trukk, 10 Trukkboys, 5 Stormboys, 5 Koptas and 1 Kommando left.
He managed to kill the remaining Koptas, the Stormboys and the Squigboss, in my 3rd turn i finished off his Chaplain with the MA Warboss and scored a bit more on secondaries.
His 4th turn he killed everything but 1 Trukk, 1 Kommando, 5 Trukkboys and the Mek Gun, i could do nothing more then shoot down his Impulsor with my Mek Gun (finally getting through that annoying 5++s rolls).
His 5th turn he killed everything but the 1 Mek Gun which had 3 wounds remaining and scored my final 5 points for Primaries.
He had his 3 Redemptors and the Techmarine left but in the end i won 77:71. To be fair he made one mistake to choose banners, which scored just 1 point total. If he had just gone for Engage he would have ended up with 80+ points and won the game - lucky me!
(But to be fair, i focused on his infantry and the objectives to prevant lots of banner points, otherwise i would have concentrated more on killing his nasty Redemptors.
Overall great game with lots of fun close combat action and difficult decisions on both sides. Would have gone a lot better without his glorious invulns but overall it went great.
Thinking about skipping the Dragsta for Warbikes instead next time, i just wanted some extra anti tank but the Dragsta did nothing besides exploding and giving the Warboss 3 MW`s and some more on my other stuff.^^
Would love the add 1-3 more Mek Guns as they are really solid but that poor morale is basicly a 50:50 chance to loose another Mek Gun for each loss.
Maybe add another squad of Stormboys to help a bit with engage if i struggle to properly krump the opponent with my alpha strike, Engage and solid work on the Primaries safed the day after all.
This has been explained somewhere but im not sure where, and id like to understand it, as im painting to field 30 kommandos.
But when we have kommandos in, lets say a ruin, and someone attacks me in close combat, do i still get +2 to my save? The whole "receiving the benefits of cover" im a little confused about.
Because i am in a ruin, i do get +1 to my save against ranged attacks so im under a benefit of cover, but it doesnt benefit against CC. So do i still get the bonus? I have a benefit, it just doesnt work against CC.
Jidmah wrote: You receive the benefits of cover during all phases and the ability does not limit which attacks can be affected.
If you sit in heavy cover (for example, behind a barricade), you would even get +3 to your save against melee attacks.
thanks buddy. I heard that benefits of cover also covers defensible position?
the one that gives +1 to my hits or +1 to my overwatch (or what ever it does ive never used it)
but a normal mlight save doesnt work then. I figured it wouldnt.
Essentially it works like this:
- For area terrain, INFANTRY, BEAST and SWARM models (not cavalry, bikes or vehicles!) receives the benefit of cover while your are within it (= any part of the base/unbased model is over the base). Note that many events also rule that touching the terrain is enough.
- For obstacles, INFANTRY, BEAST or SWARM models receive the benefit of cover when they are within 3" of the obstacle and the attack has to cross the obstacle for any part of your model.
- Exposed Position takes away the benefits of cover, no matter what. Most commonly, this is triggered by standing on top of containers.
By itself, the benefits of cover do absolutely nothing (except trigger the kommadoz' rule).
There are just two terrain traits that check if you are receiving the benefits of cover:
- Light Cover (+1 save vs shooting)
- Heavy Cover (+1 save vs melee)
All other traits don't give a gak about benefits of cover.
To make the confusion complete, GW also wrote rules that give you the benefits of cover while out in the open, which then default to light cover unless specified otherwise.
In addition, ignoring the benefits of cover also affects dense terrain which doesn't really care about a unit receiving the benefits of cover solely because GW FAQed it that way.
Which means when you are
- in a ruin, you gain the benefits of cover (+1 save vs ranged from light cover), which then allows you to get +2 save from sneaky gitz.
- in the open behind a ruin you DO NOT gain the benefits of cover, but obscuring can hide you from sight.
- in a forest, you gain the benefits of cover (does nothing), which then allows you to get +2 save from sneaky gitz and you get -1 to hit from dense.
- in the open behind a forest, you DO NOT gain the benefits of cover, but you still get -1 to hit from dense.
- behind a barricade, you gain the benefits of cover (+1 save vs ranged and melee), which then allows you to get +2 save from sneaky gitz.
- on top of a container, you DO NOT gain the benefits.
- outside 18" and bloodaxe, you gain the benefits of cover (defaults to light cover, +1 save), which then allows you to get +2 save from sneaky gits .
Important: cover is on a model per model basis, so if you have 3 kommandoz in terrain and 7 outside of it, you can allocate wounds to the 3 receiving the benefits of cover for the first few wounds. Keep in mind that once you have started allocating wounds to a model, you cannot chose another one until that one is dead.
Jidmah wrote: Congrats. When building it, keep in mind that it's super easy to magnetize for both the beastboss and the named character, so don't waste that opportunity.
Thanks for the tip Now I just need to get Kommandos, what are people using?
The kommando kit from kill team is great. I also used some regular multipose boys with spellcrow heads with some slight tweaks like flipping their choppas around to look like theyre backstabbing. Then I used some of the new monopose boyz from the new combat patrol with spellcrow and leftover killteam heads. Used a mix of backpacks from kromlech, IG kits, and leftover ork packs.
Kommandos are pretty easy to convert, especially if you have leftover bits from a kommando box
Depends on what you want the kommandos to do. I think the bomb squig is the only real no brainer since MW that you can just pick a target for, even on Overwatch to hit on a 3+ is pretty handy. I prefer klaw on Nobs but big choppa is free. Been trying the ram and it seems useful since I face mostly 2 wound infantry and monsters, but you could probably ignore it and be fine. I just like having the extra damage to deal with all the marines I see.
None of the guns seem worth it. You can only take 1 of each in a squad of 10 or more and have no way to buff BS. If you could take 5 kommandos with a bigshoota ,kustom shoota, and rokkit to camp an objective, maybe, but since most of the unit wants to stab things it just doesnt seem worth it to pay for extra guns.
DoktaRoksta wrote: Thanks, managed to snag a set or kill team Kommandos off Ebay. I got some gluing and painting to do
Automatically Appended Next Post: Does anyone equip Kommandos with anything other than sluggas and choppa?
How about the nob?
I use a PK on the nob, the bomb squig and the Breacha Ram.
As others have said, the extra pip of damage from the Breacha Ram is situationally useful and is meta dependent. Definitely a "if you don't have anything better to spend the points on" upgrade otherwise.
The bomb squig is an auto-include in my opinion. Anything to pump out more MWs to help crack those really hard targets. I've not sat and recorded their exact input in my games, but I'd definitely say that bomb squigs have definitely enabled some victories.
Jidmah wrote: You receive the benefits of cover during all phases and the ability does not limit which attacks can be affected.
If you sit in heavy cover (for example, behind a barricade), you would even get +3 to your save against melee attacks.
thanks buddy. I heard that benefits of cover also covers defensible position?
the one that gives +1 to my hits or +1 to my overwatch (or what ever it does ive never used it)
but a normal mlight save doesnt work then. I figured it wouldnt.
Essentially it works like this:
- For area terrain, INFANTRY, BEAST and SWARM models (not cavalry, bikes or vehicles!) receives the benefit of cover while your are within it (= any part of the base/unbased model is over the base). Note that many events also rule that touching the terrain is enough.
- For obstacles, INFANTRY, BEAST or SWARM models receive the benefit of cover when they are within 3" of the obstacle and the attack has to cross the obstacle for any part of your model.
- Exposed Position takes away the benefits of cover, no matter what. Most commonly, this is triggered by standing on top of containers.
By itself, the benefits of cover do absolutely nothing (except trigger the kommadoz' rule).
There are just two terrain traits that check if you are receiving the benefits of cover:
- Light Cover (+1 save vs shooting)
- Heavy Cover (+1 save vs melee)
All other traits don't give a gak about benefits of cover.
To make the confusion complete, GW also wrote rules that give you the benefits of cover while out in the open, which then default to light cover unless specified otherwise.
In addition, ignoring the benefits of cover also affects dense terrain which doesn't really care about a unit receiving the benefits of cover solely because GW FAQed it that way.
Which means when you are
- in a ruin, you gain the benefits of cover (+1 save vs ranged from light cover), which then allows you to get +2 save from sneaky gitz.
- in the open behind a ruin you DO NOT gain the benefits of cover, but obscuring can hide you from sight.
- in a forest, you gain the benefits of cover (does nothing), which then allows you to get +2 save from sneaky gitz and you get -1 to hit from dense.
- in the open behind a forest, you DO NOT gain the benefits of cover, but you still get -1 to hit from dense.
- behind a barricade, you gain the benefits of cover (+1 save vs ranged and melee), which then allows you to get +2 save from sneaky gitz.
- on top of a container, you DO NOT gain the benefits.
- outside 18" and bloodaxe, you gain the benefits of cover (defaults to light cover, +1 save), which then allows you to get +2 save from sneaky gits .
Important: cover is on a model per model basis, so if you have 3 kommandoz in terrain and 7 outside of it, you can allocate wounds to the 3 receiving the benefits of cover for the first few wounds. Keep in mind that once you have started allocating wounds to a model, you cannot chose another one until that one is dead.
thank you. Im assuming the dense cover doesnt proc sneaky gitz in CC since the -1 to hit doesnt work in CC.
It appears like this is a lot more complicated than what it has to be.
No, you are just overthinking it - Sneaky gitz will always proc for all attacks, ranged and melee, while you are in area terrain or when that attack is coming from across an obstacle. It doesn't matter what the terrain involved does at all.
None of the guns seem worth it. You can only take 1 of each in a squad of 10 or more and have no way to buff BS. If you could take 5 kommandos with a bigshoota ,kustom shoota, and rokkit to camp an objective, maybe, but since most of the unit wants to stab things it just doesnt seem worth it to pay for extra guns.
I would take the burna, as it is the only one that allows you to use the bombsquig while advancing.
Jidmah wrote: No, you are just overthinking it - Sneaky gitz will always proc for all attacks, ranged and melee, while you are in area terrain or when that attack is coming from across an obstacle. It doesn't matter what the terrain involved does at all.
i thought i understood it untill you wrote this. But its okay, ill make a dedicated rules thread at some point to fully understand it.
Jidmah wrote: No, you are just overthinking it - Sneaky gitz will always proc for all attacks, ranged and melee, while you are in area terrain or when that attack is coming from across an obstacle. It doesn't matter what the terrain involved does at all.
I thought that was how it worked but my local group disagreed. Basically boiled down to a big argument over what exactly "benefits of cover" means. We settled that anytime I was getting some sort of benefit ruleswise from cover, the +2 kicked in. Leads to weird instances where my kommandos have 4+ save since they were being shot at through a dense terrain piece even though they werent in it. And my favorite, any time I charge something in most terrain, I have a 6+ save, but if Im charged in defensible terrain and can proc the +1 ws, then I get a +4 save.
I really wish GW would clarify this, out of all the things the ork faq glossed over this was the most important one in my opinion.
It' s actualy pretty CP hungry kind of the list. The lost of +1 to hit pains the buggies and koptas a lot. On the other side, the extra move, invu and rain of mortal wounds etc is very solid.
But to be really cool, you need to burn the CP' s . And because you start with about 7CPs, it is not enough to Ramming Speed, Crashing Through and disappear in the sun every turn.
I think the key is the Blood Axes. Thinking Cap + Extra Kunnin trait actualy doubles your CPs = you spare 1CP per turn x 5 turns = 5CPs for Extra Kunnin and the Cap gives you in average about 2,5 CPs per battle = 7,5CPs back in total.
It ' s like duty free shopping..-
It will be the first time I will play Blood Axes in my life…
… and it makes my Warboss on Warbike a squishi supporting character
GW for some reason has stopped doing any real FAQs on Codexes - there are still issues unresolved with the Sisters book which came out earlier too. It's super frustrating. They used to do a big January FAQ so maybe we'll get that, but it would take so little for these issues to be resolved.
shabadoit wrote: GW for some reason has stopped doing any real FAQs on Codexes - there are still issues unresolved with the Sisters book which came out earlier too. It's super frustrating. They used to do a big January FAQ so maybe we'll get that, but it would take so little for these issues to be resolved.
gungo wrote: Right now we should get chapter approved with points updated in January.
A rules faq in March but I’m sure it will be pushed out…
Now we are also getting a quarterly balance reportedly rules update only… should be february if quarterly
Keep in mind that GW is a European company that tends to be out of office till the second week of January - it has been this way for ages, but people still lose their mind every year when nothing is happening for the first few weeks of the year
Jidmah wrote: Keep in mind that GW is a European company that tends to be out of office till the second week of January - it has been this way for ages, but people still lose their mind every year when nothing is happening for the first few weeks of the year
The new codex delivers a lot while taking little in return. I thought 8th was the best since 4th as well, and 9th seems to be better in many ways. With that said, I still think there is a lot of room for improvement. The morale issue for most of our units is kind of telling here, especially with the new releases showing that most other armies are still not going to give a fig about Morale. Custodes going to LD11 for instance. But overall, I am rather happy with this codex, I wish a few things were better but I like the fact that we aren't hamstrung into a single style of play. You can play Buggies, speedfreakz, elite, the new beast style or my Alphork strike 
but I have got a bit better at using distraction to tie up his shooting whilst my melee monsters thread through the scenery out of 
what are people using?
