I didn't really think that was any kind of foreshadowing. I thought they were just there so Gareth could wax poetic about the current state of the world. They were literally scenery for that scene.
Compel wrote: I think I agree with the walker ambush plan anting up being an intentional red herring.
Its also weird we never saw the result of the tainted meat thing...
Spoiler:
We never see the outcome in the comics either.
We had actually discussed with our little group at work that we all hoped they'd tie them up and let them turn, which would be more cruel than using the machete with red handle...
gorgon wrote: The assumption is that the meat was safe once cooked.
But there are many important and unanswered questions about the virus (or virii) in both mediums.
Well we already know the answer to THIS at least.
EVERYONE is already infected. The "virus" simply remains dormant until a person dies, at which point it takes over and reanimates the corpse. Eating "tainted meat" cannot infect you , because you are already infected. Eating rotting meat would still carry the usual health risks of other viruses and bacteria however, which may end up killing you anyway.
But I doubt Bob's flesh was "tainted" enough to kill anyone that ate it (cooked). The infection (of normal bacteria and viruses transmitted by the bite of a walker's rotting mouth, not the "Zombie virus" itself) may not spread far enough through Bob's body to reach his legs yet. And even if it did, it probably wasn't yet concentrated enough to be a health risk to anyone that ate the flesh. If The Hunters had ate him a day later when the infection was well developed, or after he'd died, and his body had had time to rot and the bacteria multiply, then it would be more dangerous.
Point is, I think eating Bob at that moment in time was relatively safe. As long as they didn't eat his shoulder.
Compel wrote: I think I agree with the walker ambush plan anting up being an intentional red herring.
Its also weird we never saw the result of the tainted meat thing...
Spoiler:
We never see the outcome in the comics either.
We had actually discussed with our little group at work that we all hoped they'd tie them up and let them turn, which would be more cruel than using the machete with red handle...
I'd have amputated and cauterized their hands then released them. Let them try to survive as the defenseless Prey in a world full of Hunters (zombies)
gorgon wrote: The assumption is that the meat was safe once cooked.
But there are many important and unanswered questions about the virus (or virii) in both mediums.
Well we already know the answer to THIS at least.
EVERYONE is already infected. The "virus" simply remains dormant until a person dies, at which point it takes over and reanimates the corpse. Eating "tainted meat" cannot infect you , because you are already infected. Eating rotting meat would still carry the usual health risks of other viruses and bacteria however, which may end up killing you anyway.
But I doubt Bob's flesh was "tainted" enough to kill anyone that ate it (cooked). The infection (of normal bacteria and viruses transmitted by the bite of a walker's rotting mouth, not the "Zombie virus" itself) may not spread far enough through Bob's body to reach his legs yet. And even if it did, it probably wasn't yet concentrated enough to be a health risk to anyone that ate the flesh. If The Hunters had ate him a day later when the infection was well developed, or after he'd died, and his body had had time to rot and the bacteria multiply, then it would be more dangerous.
Point is, I think eating Bob at that moment in time was relatively safe. As long as they didn't eat his shoulder.
I don't necessarily agree with that.
A zombie bite is, no matter how small, is enough to kill a person. To me, that says that there is something different about the "zombie virus" when transmitted from a zombie if only a bit could do it. I think it is fair to assume that if you eat the meat of a zombie bite victim, the outcome could be the same as a bite.
I concede that cooking it might affect the whether or not you would turn, but we haven't really seen anything that says otherwise.
gorgon wrote: The assumption is that the meat was safe once cooked.
But there are many important and unanswered questions about the virus (or virii) in both mediums.
Well we already know the answer to THIS at least.
EVERYONE is already infected. The "virus" simply remains dormant until a person dies, at which point it takes over and reanimates the corpse. Eating "tainted meat" cannot infect you , because you are already infected. Eating rotting meat would still carry the usual health risks of other viruses and bacteria however, which may end up killing you anyway.
But I doubt Bob's flesh was "tainted" enough to kill anyone that ate it (cooked). The infection (of normal bacteria and viruses transmitted by the bite of a walker's rotting mouth, not the "Zombie virus" itself) may not spread far enough through Bob's body to reach his legs yet. And even if it did, it probably wasn't yet concentrated enough to be a health risk to anyone that ate the flesh. If The Hunters had ate him a day later when the infection was well developed, or after he'd died, and his body had had time to rot and the bacteria multiply, then it would be more dangerous.
Point is, I think eating Bob at that moment in time was relatively safe. As long as they didn't eat his shoulder.
I don't necessarily agree with that.
A zombie bite is, no matter how small, is enough to kill a person. To me, that says that there is something different about the "zombie virus" when transmitted from a zombie if only a bit could do it. I think it is fair to assume that if you eat the meat of a zombie bite victim, the outcome could be the same as a bite.
I concede that cooking it might affect the whether or not you would turn, but we haven't really seen anything that says otherwise.
No, you're wrong. Its been directly addressed in the show, in the comics and by the creators.
In the Walking Dead universe the Zombie "Virus" (We don't even know if it is a virus, it could be a parasite or anything, as Dr Jenner said in Season 1) is not what kills a victim of a Zombie bite, there is nothing special about a bite. People cannot be "infected" with the virus via a bite, because EVERYONE is already infected. The disease itself spread throughout the human population, or was something already present in humans which mutated, before the zombie outbreak began.
What kills the victim of the bite is the infections and fevers that result from the extreme concentrations of viruses, bacteria and/or parasites present in the rotting flesh and mouths of zombies. The sort of stuff which is very dangerous when transmitted directly into the blood stream of a patient, but less dangerous when eaten.
Does that mean I think people can safely eat Zombies? No. They've been decomposing for weeks, months and years, and all the nasty bacteria, viruses and parasites present will be extremely concentrated in all the flesh and tissues throughout the entire body. No amount of cooking will make rotten meat safe to eat.
But a freshly bitten and still living victim, who hasn't died and began to decompose? The bacterial and viral infections caused by the bite may not yet have spread throughout the entire body. Thats why a bite victim can have the limb amputated and still survive if its done quickly enough - the (mundane real world) bacterial and viral infection(s) are still localized to the area of the wound.
The Hunters kidnapped Bob and ate his leg roughly half a day after he was bitten. At the time, Bob was still strong enough to move under his own power, and he hadn't yet developed a fever. That implies the infection(s) hadn't spread throughout his entire body. Therefore eating his leg (an extremity and the furthest limb from the wound) at that time was relatively safe. But eating the corrupted flesh directly adjacent to his wound, or waiting 24-48 hours after he was bitten and developed a fever? That would have been more dangerous, because the infection has already progressed and spread throughout the shoulder/ entire body.
So, Bob's shoulder, and maybe parts of his torso and arms were "tainted meat" but not his legs. Not yet anyway. When he was on his death bed the next morning, yes/
As previously stated, the zombie pathogen itself is not lethal, and zombie "infection" occurs due to high concentrations of antibiotic-resistant bacteria found in zombies, especially in their mouths. In the Walking Dead universe, every human being on the planet is believed to be infected, suggesting the disease is airborne or waterborne. Any time a human dies they will reanimate, bitten or not, unless their brain is destroyed. It is unknown if getting blood or saliva from zombies into human mouths will cause infection, but it is known that any contact zombie fluids make with open wounds, and possibly a human's eyes, will spread their lethal bacteria throughout the host's body.
In response to:
"Negan recently has his guys dirty up weapons in zombie gore for infection attacks. I'm curious if this works due to "Phillip" kissing a zombie and Tyreese and other characters getting bloody all over their face, but nobody changing. This also made me question Dale's "tainted meat" logic back during the Fear the Hunters arc."
Are you explaining that stuff soon or is Negan unaware of that method probably doing no harm? In other words, can zombie blood or spit change you after apparently having no effect on characters previously?
"The weapons would create an open wound, and getting that material in an open wound and have contact in that way would be bad news. Kissing a zombie, getting stuff on you... not so much. It's more like direct contact with the blood stream. Make sense?"[7]
Bites
Zombie bites are not necessarily fatal because of the zombie pathogen, but rather the unsanitary nature of their mouths due to diet and decomposition. Scratches cause similar infections for similar reasons.
It should be noted that zombie saliva and scratches are not guaranteed to kill, as both Tyreese and the Governor have come into contact with both and were unaffected. The deep, fatal infections left by zombie bites can potentially be avoided if the bite is on an appendage, which then must be amputated immediately after the bite. However, this does not always work, and bites on main parts of the body, or on veins or arteries, and always fatal.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: What kills the victim of the bite is the infections and fevers that result from the extreme concentrations of viruses, bacteria and/or parasites present in the rotting flesh and mouths of zombies. The sort of stuff which is very dangerous when transmitted directly into the blood stream of a patient, but less dangerous when eaten.
Anyone who's watched the show or read the book knows that everyone's infected. You don't need to keep repeating that point.
The point that we're making and that *you're ignoring* is that whatever's in a zombie bite kills people extremely quickly, apparently without any possibility of recovery, and is lethal even in very small amounts.
That suggests something a little greater than your average nasties found in decomposing flesh. And note that a brand new zombie's bite is apparently equally lethal, even though it isn't a mass of rotted flesh yet.
Now, it may be a case of Kirkman sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH" when people try to bring up the science of it, much like he apparently did with the magical virus at the prison in the show and how it was cured. But people aren't wrong to say that it doesn't quite add up.
Now, it may be a case of Kirkman sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH" when people try to bring up the science of it, much like he apparently did with the magical virus at the prison in the show and how it was cured. But people aren't wrong to say that it doesn't quite add up.
Ha!
Exactly!
I think there's quite a bit of (Kirkman sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH") going on in the Walking Dead, but, what are we to do?
Then the Occam's Razor answer is that its merely a plot hole caused by artistic licence, due to Kirkman exaggerating the lethality of real world pathogen infections. Its a leap in logic to assume that there is something special in a zombie bite when that idea's been directly contradicted by the show, the comics and the creator himself.
And note that a brand new zombie's bite is apparently equally lethal, even though it isn't a mass of rotted flesh yet.
Do you know of any specific examples? Ones where a person was bitten by a freshly turned (within hours) non-decomposed zombie and wasn't immediately torn to shreds but died of a fever?
The only one I can remember off the top of my head is Andrea, but she received a deep bite wound to the neck (and possibly severed arteries) that was bleeding out, and everyone just assumed there was no possibility of a cure. No attempt to cure it was made, they skipped straight to the assisted suicide / euthanasia. So Andrea doesn't count.
Anyway, we will likely soon learn more about how zombies in general work in TWD universe because in the current comic book Arc...
Spoiler:
Rick's new network of communities come into conflict with a new group of surviveors called "The Whisperers" who disguise themselves as walkers by wearing masks and body suits made from actual walker skins so they can pass unnoticed amongst herds of walkers. Thats gotta raise questions about hygiene and infection risks.
Now, it may be a case of Kirkman sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH" when people try to bring up the science of it, much like he apparently did with the magical virus at the prison in the show and how it was cured. But people aren't wrong to say that it doesn't quite add up.
Ha!
Exactly!
I think there's quite a bit of (Kirkman sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH") going on in the Walking Dead, but, what are we to do?
Suspend your disbelief and stop agonising over the biological mechanism of a Zombie bite.
Its been directly addressed in the show, in the comics and by the creators.
I'm not worried about the comics, and it hasn't really been addressed on the show
In the Walking Dead universe the Zombie "Virus" (We don't even know if it is a virus, it could be a parasite or anything, as Dr Jenner said in Season 1) is not what kills a victim of a Zombie bite, there is nothing special about a bite. People cannot be "infected" with the virus via a bite, because EVERYONE is already infected. The disease itself spread throughout the human population, or was something already present in humans which mutated, before the zombie outbreak began.
What kills the victim of the bite is the infections and fevers that result from the extreme concentrations of viruses, bacteria and/or parasites present in the rotting flesh and mouths of zombies. The sort of stuff which is very dangerous when transmitted directly into the blood stream of a patient, but less dangerous when eaten.
Yes, we all know that the zombie virus is in everyone already. However, if there is nothing special about the bite, how is the smallest bite still fatal? To me, that says there is something special about the bite.
Does that mean I think people can safely eat Zombies? No. They've been decomposing for weeks, months and years, and all the nasty bacteria, viruses and parasites present will be extremely concentrated in all the flesh and tissues throughout the entire body. No amount of cooking will make rotten meat safe to eat.
Not all of the zombies in the show fit that criteria.
But a freshly bitten and still living victim, who hasn't died and began to decompose? The bacterial and viral infections caused by the bite may not yet have spread throughout the entire body. Thats why a bite victim can have the limb amputated and still survive if its done quickly enough - the (mundane real world) bacterial and viral infection(s) are still localized to the area of the wound.
The limb has to be taken immediately for it to work. See below.
The Hunters kidnapped Bob and ate his leg roughly half a day after he was bitten. At the time, Bob was still strong enough to move under his own power, and he hadn't yet developed a fever. That implies the infection(s) hadn't spread throughout his entire body. Therefore eating his leg (an extremity and the furthest limb from the wound) at that time was relatively safe. But eating the corrupted flesh directly adjacent to his wound, or waiting 24-48 hours after he was bitten and developed a fever? That would have been more dangerous, because the infection has already progressed and spread throughout the shoulder/ entire body.
So, Bob's shoulder, and maybe parts of his torso and arms were "tainted meat" but not his legs. Not yet anyway. When he was on his death bed the next morning, yes/
Since you said the person dies from "extreme concentrations of the virus in the blood from the bite," Bob was tainted meat fairly quickly; it takes only one minute for your blood to completely circulate through your body.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you're wrong; I just don't think there has been enough information revealed about how the entire process works.
So I think it is silly to sit here and tell each other that we are wrong because there is no definite answer yet.
It's the zombie virus that kills you when you're bitten by a zombie. Basically the virus has two modes. Dormant and Active, it's dormant in the living and active in the dead. If you're infected with the active version you will die. The idea that other microbes in the zombie kill you through some kind of turbo-sepsis is impossible because if the corpse had that kind of bacterial load it would decompose completely in a few days. Then there would be no Zombies.
That's why Max Brooks' Zombie Survival Guide is the best thought out book on zombies. He explains that the Zombie virus actually kills all other microbes as well thereby preventing decomposition. So zombies can last like 7 years in moderate temperatures.
Also, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you're wrong;
I am sitting here, and saying that the author himself says that you are wrong.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Also, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you're wrong; I just don't think there has been enough information revealed about how the entire process works.
So I think it is silly to sit here and tell each other that we are wrong because there is no definite answer yet.
There won't be.
Letter Hacks wrote:#8
Kirkman establishes that he is never going to provide a rational explanation for how the outbreak occurs. He thinks any explanation would disrupt the normalness, and border "science fiction". He is more interested in what happens post-outbreak than what had happened leading up to it.
#9
It is reaffirmed by Kirkman that he will not explain the origin of the plague.
#10
It is once again stated that the origin of the plague will never ever be revealed.
#36
Kirkman doesn't plan on ever writing what caused the apocalypse.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: It's the zombie virus that kills you when you're bitten by a zombie. Basically the virus has two modes. Dormant and Active, it's dormant in the living and active in the dead. If you're infected with the active version you will die. The idea that other microbes in the zombie kill you through some kind of turbo-sepsis is impossible because if the corpse had that kind of bacterial load it would decompose completely in a few days. Then there would be no Zombies.
That's why Max Brooks' Zombie Survival Guide is the best thought out book on zombies. He explains that the Zombie virus actually kills all other microbes as well thereby preventing decomposition. So zombies can last like 7 years in moderate temperatures.
No.
It's the zombie virus that kills you when you're bitten by a zombie
In other media, maybe. Not in TWD.
However these things work in other media is irrelevant to how it works in TWD universe. That "Zombie Survival Guide" is not an authority for TWD, a franchise in which the author has explicitly contradicted it and declared that his version of Zombies works differently. In fact, I don't see how it can be considered an authority in any franchise, as well thought out and logical as it sounds. Zombies are fictional. Every author does their own thing. there is no canonical Zombie "virus", so you can't say with authority that "This is how the virus works in all franchises". It might work that way in one franchise, but not in another (TWD).
Admittedly, your contribution (two forms - dormant and active) is a very logical theory and it makes more sense than "normal bacteria is what kills you after a bite, not the zombie virus itself". But you are flat out contradicted by the author himself - hes not interested in defining how things work because he doesn't want to delve into Science Fiction. His official canonical stance, is that the Zombie "virus" In his TWD Universe is not what kills the victim of a bite, its the normal bacteria and viruses transmitted.
Short of Kirkman changing his mind and retconning the series, your opinion is wrong and not backed up by evidence from TWD universe. Until then, its just a fan theory.
The only logical explanation is that this is simply a plot hole, with an author who has no interest in addressing it.
Also, we shouldn't call it a "virus". We flat out do not know what the disease is, as stated by Dr Jenner in the TV Show and by Kirkman himself
Letter Hacks wrote:
#41
Kirkman confirms the rule that everyone has the same infection (of unknown origin) that causes zombies. Unless your brain is damaged, however way someone dies, they end up a zombie. A zombie bite kills due to infection or blood loss, not because of the zombie virus.
Now, it may be a case of Kirkman sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH" when people try to bring up the science of it, much like he apparently did with the magical virus at the prison in the show and how it was cured. But people aren't wrong to say that it doesn't quite add up.
Ha!
Exactly!
I think there's quite a bit of (Kirkman sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH") going on in the Walking Dead, but, what are we to do?
Suspend your disbelief and stop agonising over the biological mechanism of a Zombie bite.
I'm hardly agonizing over anything here - and I know this is The Internet and all, but, maybe dial down the hyperbole a bit?
Now, it may be a case of Kirkman sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH" when people try to bring up the science of it, much like he apparently did with the magical virus at the prison in the show and how it was cured. But people aren't wrong to say that it doesn't quite add up.
Ha!
Exactly!
I think there's quite a bit of (Kirkman sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH") going on in the Walking Dead, but, what are we to do?
Suspend your disbelief and stop agonising over the biological mechanism of a Zombie bite.
I'm hardly agonizing over anything here - and I know this is The Internet and all, but, maybe dial down the hyperbole a bit?
Thanks!
Sorry, I didn't mean you were agonizing. I was referring to Scooty and Kamikaze. Should have written "Suspend OUR disbelief".
Sorry, I didn't mean you were agonizing. I was referring to Scooty and Kamikaze. Should have written "Suspend OUR disbelief".
Which is odd, because all I've said is that there is no one answer to how the zombies work, nor do I really care about how it works. I'm entertained just by pondering about it and I think not knowing is fun.
Yet you've just told everyone should suspend our disbelief, but also we are all wrong even though there is no conclusive proof one way or the other. Then you have gone to great length to explain how there is no answer with a bunch of self-contradictory excerpts from a wiki (that only has to do with the comic, not the show), but at the same time you're right and everyone else is wrong. So who cares?
Let's just enjoy talking about a show we all like watching!
Sorry, I didn't mean you were agonizing. I was referring to Scooty and Kamikaze. Should have written "Suspend OUR disbelief".
Which is odd, because all I've said is that there is no one answer to how the zombies work, nor do I really care about how it works. I'm entertained just by pondering about it and I think not knowing is fun.
Yet you've just told everyone should suspend our disbelief, but also we are all wrong even though there is no conclusive proof one way or the other. Then you have gone to great length to explain how there is no answer with a bunch of self-contradictory excerpts from a wiki (that only has to do with the comic, not the show), but at the same time you're right and everyone else is wrong. So who cares?
Let's just enjoy talking about a show we all like watching!
We're approaching it from opposite perspectives.
I place more emphasis on what the author himself says about his work, and concluded that these issues are simply trivial plotholes in a series that is about inter personal relationships and character development in a post apocalyptic setting, not Science Fiction. Short of the author changing his mind and retconning the series to insert a detailed explanation of the biological mechanisms of zombie bites, I will stick to the conclusion that its just a plot hole.
You've decided that the author's work doesn't make sense and so you're trying to explain away the plot holes with Science Fiction, when thats really not what the show is about.
I respect your opinion, and I really like that "The virus has two forms: dormant and active" theory (which I've not heard of before). In any other Zombie story / franchise, it would make sense and work, but TWD is not about that. Its not Science Fiction. Trying to explain these plot holes with hypothetical science is turning TWD into something that its not.
This whole discussion reminds me of Mass Effect 3 and The Indoctrination Theory. Fans didn't like the official canon ending as written by the creators, so came up with all these convoluted arguments to explain how the ending was wrong and Shepherd was really indoctrinated and it was all a dream and didn't really happen; ignoring the fact that the creators publicly insisted that there was no secret meaning to it. (and I must admit I was one of them for a while ).
You're talking yourself into circles. TWD isn't science fiction? Really? Hell, it's science fiction that the zombies' bites could even work as Kirkman describes, for the reasons we've listed.
The point is about creating a "willing suspension of disbelief"...not going around telling people to "just suspend your disbelief already." The material needs to enable it.
I place more emphasis on what the author himself says about his work, and concluded that these issues are simply trivial plotholes in a series that is about inter personal relationships and character development in a post apocalyptic setting, not Science Fiction. Short of the author changing his mind and retconning the series to insert a detailed explanation of the biological mechanisms of zombie bites, I will stick to the conclusion that its just a plot hole.
You've decided that the author's work doesn't make sense and so you're trying to explain away the plot holes with Science Fiction, when thats really not what the show is about.
I respect your opinion, and I really like that "The virus has two forms: dormant and active" theory (which I've not heard of before). In any other Zombie story / franchise, it would make sense and work, but TWD is not about that. Its not Science Fiction. Trying to explain these plot holes with hypothetical science is turning TWD into something that its not.
This whole discussion reminds me of Mass Effect 3 and The Indoctrination Theory. Fans didn't like the official canon ending as written by the creators, so came up with all these convoluted arguments to explain how the ending was wrong and Shepherd was really indoctrinated and it was all a dream and didn't really happen; ignoring the fact that the creators publicly insisted that there was no secret meaning to it. (and I must admit I was one of them for a while ).
The main issue here is this:
What Kirkman says about the comic =/= What we watch on TV (This is important because I've made it quite clear that I am talking about the show only)
You keep bringing up the comic and what Kirkman says about it and that's fine, but at the end of the day, the show and the comic are two completely different animals and as far I as I'm concerned, they exist in different realities. For the last page, a couple of us have been bouncing ideas around about the "how and why" of the zombies and you've told everyone they are wrong and that you are right, while at the same time that no one should worry about it because it's a plot hole. Keep in mind, I'm not saying any one theory is right or not and I fully understand that it is a question that will never be answered (and I've said that I enjoy it that way). I'm not trying to explain anything away... it's just a fun topic to talk about.
By the way, it's zombie fiction, so of course it needs suspension of disbelief (unless zombies are real and I haven't heard about them yet! )... I think we all understand that here.
gorgon wrote: You're talking yourself into circles. TWD isn't science fiction? Really? Hell, it's science fiction that the zombies' bites could even work as Kirkman describes, for the reasons we've listed.
The point is about creating a "willing suspension of disbelief"...not going around telling people to "just suspend your disbelief already." The material needs to enable it.
Wait, is TWD science fiction? I wouldn't consider it that, horror sure, but sci-fi? The show is set (presumably) in the modern era with little to no emphasis on science or technological issues. The only real sci-fi elements were maybe the CDC episodes in season 1, and the current plot line of Eugene's super weapon in D.C. I guess I don't really see much of sci-fi to consider the show part of that genre. YMMV.
Or how are their skulls so soft like jelly, when if their bones are that soft they would collapse as they stand under their own weight, or fall apart as they crawl. Even ignoring how weak a human's bite force is, their teeth would fall out of their gums as they try to bite anything. Even a non-rotting human can't bite like they do in the show.
But....you really can't argue when zombies are involved, because everything involved with them is controlled by the Rule of Cool, and nothing more.
Otherwise, the troupe would likely all by dying of massive infections after being in the water (and ingesting it through all the openings in their bodies!) under the food bank. I mean, look at people swimming and getting sick with E.Coli after some unknown cows crap somewhere upstream.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I don't know why they had to jump into a zombie pit anyway. That seemed like the worst possible way to deal with that situation.
My assumption was that the floor was so weakened by flooding and rotting wood that it was safer to jump down and fight behind a barricade than risk the floor collapsing even further and taking people down with it as they struggled to kill the Walkers from above using spears and other long improvised weapons etc. It should have worked, the barricade was protecting them (though a walker could have crawled through the shelves under the water - the one that bit Bot was invisible underwater). It was only Gabriel's panic attack that forced the group to break ranks and move out from the safety of the barricade to protect him.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I don't know why they had to jump into a zombie pit anyway. That seemed like the worst possible way to deal with that situation.
LOL yes!
thats what I was thinking... FFS I would be just jabbing them all with spears... let alone thinking about any zombies that are under the water that can bite you without you seeing.... I think they mentioned something about the floor collapsing, so maybe that could be why...
compared to larger plot holes with Zombies in general, pretty minor,
zombies: its the end of the world! you know... unless they run into some guys with armour from the past 2000+ years.... seriously... a few sets of chain maille, castle like defenses that herd the Z's into kill zones... bam you are good... let alone modern military vs unarmed, un organized, thoughtless masses isnt exactly going to play out as it does in the shows...
Only just started watching. and basically at season 2 now.
It seems kinda silly how much damage these zombies do considering they seem to be so easily herded by sound.
Like how are they actually able to beat out an em-placed military zone (CDC)
Why dont they round them up into a kill pit or something.
mitch_rifle wrote: I find when they take out the walkers with their tiny knives ridiculous
why not wire a large knife to a pole and get some distance with that bitch
Hech i always tough it would be an excellent idea to do the dawn of the dead kill bus with the chainsaw slit (though in a stationary position so they dont have that dumb accident (or just dont let the oooold guy hold the saw) so they could just sit there and mow em down for a while then run away to get fuel or recharge portable battery if battery powered.
mitch_rifle wrote: I find when they take out the walkers with their tiny knives ridiculous
why not wire a large knife to a pole and get some distance with that bitch
Hech i always tough it would be an excellent idea to do the dawn of the dead kill bus with the chainsaw slit (though in a stationary position so they dont have that dumb accident (or just dont let the oooold guy hold the saw) so they could just sit there and mow em down for a while then run away to get fuel or recharge portable battery if battery powered.
Waste of fuel. It wouldn't kill zombies unless you destroyed their heads. And the relative handful of zombies you'd kill would be a drop in the ocean.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
easysauce wrote: zombies: its the end of the world! you know... unless they run into some guys with armour from the past 2000+ years.... seriously... a few sets of chain maille,
easysauce wrote: zombies: its the end of the world! you know... unless they run into some guys with armour from the past 2000+ years.... seriously... a few sets of chain maille,
Feth chainmail. Use duct tape.
yeah... and before bob got bit for real, he got bit, but was OK cause the zombie bit his bandage....
wtf? a cloth bandage is enough?
in terms of super weapons, I think Ash's car with the helicopter type blade on the front would be awesome,
easysauce wrote: zombies: its the end of the world! you know... unless they run into some guys with armour from the past 2000+ years.... seriously... a few sets of chain maille,
Feth chainmail. Use duct tape.
yeah... and before bob got bit for real, he got bit, but was OK cause the zombie bit his bandage....
wtf? a cloth bandage is enough?
in terms of super weapons, I think Ash's car with the helicopter type blade on the front would be awesome,
If the zombie bites down the bandage itself. Its no different to biting and tugging at a sleeve.
The point of the spear is so that you dont end up grappling with a walker.
walking up and grappling with a walker to stab it in the head with a knife is the dumbest thing you could possibly do. It significantly increases your chances of getting injured or bitten
The advantage of using a spear is to dispatch the walker at a distance before you get into a wrestling match. Spear's are useful that's why mankind used for for a couple of tens of thousands of years.
the spear doesnt even really have to be very long even 3-4ft would be sufficient to give you that distance and thrust to dispatch the creature. using both your hands will also give you more power and tire you less
Distance will give you that advantage in a close quarter fight, thats why if you get into a tiff dont go to ground stay on your feet and as much distance between the target and yourself
and if you do happen to get into a grappling match with a Z the haft can be used to keep the creatures at a distance to give you those precious few seconds to think of what your going to do next
And do you know what you do if your too confined to use your spear?
put it down and withdraw your secondary knife, or stick or pole or whatever you use to cave heads in
but for theatrics and the television i understand the need to get down and dirty with the walkers. although personally i think it'd be just as cool if the characters used a bit of brainpower to come up with some safer and more inteligent ways to dispatch them
To shadow, then make multiple slits so you could get the head with the chainsaw. But ether way it doesnt have to be a chainsaw. heck a couple guys with spears behind a slit wall to punch out a bunch every day could clear out a small town in releitve safety in a few days.
If all else fails figure a way to trigger car alarms or horns if it gets to dicey to lure some away for escape.
Id figure it would be bad to get bit on a bandage if there was an open wound underneath.
Compel wrote: Didn't they quite regularly use spears when they were patrolling the walls at the prison?
They had machetes, crowbars and the like. Hardly spears.
Michonne crafted a spear while they were imprisoned in Terminus, and used it during the escape (you see it when Carl is grappling with a walker, and tells Michonne to kill it). But she probably discarded it in favour of the assault rifle. And she has her katana back now anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Desubot wrote: To shadow, then make multiple slits so you could get the head with the chainsaw. But ether way it doesnt have to be a chainsaw. heck a couple guys with spears behind a slit wall to punch out a bunch every day could clear out a small town in releitve safety in a few days.
If all else fails figure a way to trigger car alarms or horns if it gets to dicey to lure some away for escape.
Id figure it would be bad to get bit on a bandage if there was an open wound underneath.
Attach long sharp blades to the wheels and the sides of the vehicle, and you'd have yourself a modern day scythed chariot.
Attach long sharp blades to the wheels and the sides of the vehicle, and you'd have yourself a modern day scythed chariot.
LOL I already suggested that! think Ash's car from army of darkness....
Im suprised in the comics there hasnt really been a "medievil fair" or renacters type group of survivors. It would make for some cool scense too to see actual HTH techniques like sheild walls, phalanxes, and so on used on the walkers. Think about it, 300 spartans held back 10's of thousands of armed, thinking people just with good ground, training and basic HTH weapons + armour. Im sure the same could be done X100 to zombies!
Attach long sharp blades to the wheels and the sides of the vehicle, and you'd have yourself a modern day scythed chariot.
LOL I already suggested that! think Ash's car from army of darkness....
Im suprised in the comics there hasnt really been a "medievil fair" or renacters type group of survivors. It would make for some cool scense too to see actual HTH techniques like sheild walls, phalanxes, and so on used on the walkers. Think about it, 300 spartans held back 10's of thousands of armed, thinking people just with good ground, training and basic HTH weapons + armour. Im sure the same could be done X100 to zombies!
Actually...it was 300 Spartan soldiers...and sveral thousand of their "Helots" slaves...and several thousand soldiers from other Greek cities.
Attach long sharp blades to the wheels and the sides of the vehicle, and you'd have yourself a modern day scythed chariot.
LOL I already suggested that! think Ash's car from army of darkness....
Im suprised in the comics there hasnt really been a "medievil fair" or renacters type group of survivors. It would make for some cool scense too to see actual HTH techniques like sheild walls, phalanxes, and so on used on the walkers. Think about it, 300 spartans held back 10's of thousands of armed, thinking people just with good ground, training and basic HTH weapons + armour. Im sure the same could be done X100 to zombies!
Actually...it was 300 Spartan soldiers...and sveral thousand of their "Helots" slaves...and several thousand soldiers from other Greek cities.
Wikipedia say's 20,000 Greeks.
wiki is a horrible source, esp if you search something related to "300" as opposed to "The Battle of Thermopylae" wiki for that states:
A Greek force of approximately 7,000 men marched north to block the pass in the summer of 480 BC. The Persian army, alleged by the ancient sources to have numbered over one million but today considered to have been much smaller (various figures are given by scholars ranging between about 100,000 and 150,000)"
Leonidas, aware that his force was being outflanked, dismissed the bulk of the Greek army and remained to guard their retreat with 300 Spartans, 700 Thespians, 400 Thebans, and perhaps a few hundred others, most of whom were killed.
The reason 300 spartans were recorded as legends by various poets at the time, is that while they certainly were not alone, they did send the bulk of the other forces home before they made their last stand. the sheer effectiveness of them combined with an almost perfect choice of battle field was what allowed such a small force to hold out against one more then 10x in #.
Hence why its quite realistic to not be too bothered by zombies if you had a group of well trained and HTH equipped people you could realistically be getting 10+ to one odds against zombies and still come out on top.
I also don;t know why that angle hasn't been covered. There's an apocalypse series starting with "Dies the Fire" where everything technological on earth stops working. One of the nastiest bad guys is a freak who used to be a history professor and a SCA group member who starts his own kingdom, pilfering museums and bringing back medieval construction technology to brutalize a good chunk of Oregon.
Seeing a group like that fighting against zombies would be awesome, either in the show or comic format.
Hence why its quite realistic to not be too bothered by zombies if you had a group of well trained and HTH equipped people you could realistically be getting 10+ to one odds against zombies and still come out on top.
You get tired, might get sprayed by infected matter, someone might stumble, freak out, weapons get damaged and lost. Other fethers out there who see your plight as a way to make themselves safer....... Food poisoning and other illness, dehydration etc.
Of course in a perfect world without walkers.............
Of course in a perfect world without walkers.............
??? why do you need a "perfect world" for the past 2000 years of hand to hand combat to work as it has already worked in the past?
people get tired, stumble, get sick, ect when they are acting like running and gunning COD style to kill Z's... not to mention how the heck suddenly everyone can score head shots on the run, with one hand (and sometimes without sights!) and never carrys spare mags but always has ammo.
All your points exist as issues any group could have regardless of how they fight Z's.
even in
Spoiler:
TWD comics when negan gets a huge horde pulled onto his base after ricks group takes out the outer wall, he just gets a bunch of guys lined up, starts whacking heads. Negans group also laughs at rick for still using bullets on the dead, as he should as its a total waste.
plenty of defensive tactics/tools/locations/ect allowed people for thousands of years to fight of numerically superior forces of *armed trained people who use actual tactics* for extended periods of time. Fighting zombies is much easier then fighting people, despite zombies not having to sleep.
Seemed really disjointed and forced. Don't think it was any one actor/actresses fault--just seemed like a poor script.
As an aside, they made a mistake saving Carol. They think Beth is bad....I imagine next week we'll see the hospital demolished with Carol walking out of the smoke.
easysauce wrote: looks like they might actually be turning beth into the new andrea... or just giving her the scars to be extra bad ass...
the episode has a bit of a slow pace to it though, felt like not too much really happened
I think that's possibly a very good call as another TV remix item.
I thought it was a solid episode. Again, TWD is a story about the human characters and not an exercise in violence/zombie pr0n. And I have a strong suspicion about where things are going to go from here.
Spoiler:
Carol's not going to make it. Carol will help Beth escape (that's who's with Daryl), either dying or staying behind in the process, and kinda symbolically passing on some of her strength to Beth. I also wouldn't be surprised if the doc finds out that Carol's cancer has returned.
Carol going down would fit with the way the show has run. We'll know she's a goner for sure if she gives a big motivational speech
I'm hoping they all make it out and that her being there is part of the plan. Her cancer coming back would make for an excellent and less guilt ridden way for her to sacrifice herself.
Perhaps. Didn't Noah say that they had walls where he's from?
(comic spoiler ahead)
Spoiler:
So that could be a reference to the Alexandria Safe Zone. Or maybe the Richmond Safe Zone for the TV show? Perhaps he's the one who leads them there.
I thought that Daryl seemed emotional or something when he returned with the mystery person, but maybe it's just that he's come back without Beth OR Carolo.
I think the overall plot and idea for this new storyline is fine but, I don't know, the main villain: the woman cop, I'm just not feeling it. She doesn't seem like a good character or actress.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I think the overall plot and idea for this new storyline is fine but, I don't know, the main villain: the woman cop, I'm just not feeling it. She doesn't seem like a good character or actress.
I don't think this new Atlanta group will be around long enough to be the "main villain" of the season.They'll just be yet another in a series of antagonist groups - the Claimed gang, The Terminus Hunters, and now this gang of corrupt Cops - to act as speed bumps for Rick and co.
This weeks episode with Beth was a flashback episode akin to the two Governor centric episodes of last season, to show whats happened to Beth in the days or weeks since she was kidnapped. Meaning, it was "past tense". Next weeks episode is apparently about Abraham's splinter group, which will show what happened the day they left Rick (Daryl returns later that night). So it will be "present tense". Then I think the ep after that will jump to Daryl and Carol, and show how Carol ended up inside the Hosptial, which will again be a "past tense" flashback.
Either way the Atlanta storyline will be wrapped up within one more episode. Carol will infiltrate the hospital, get Beth out, but maybe die herself in the process.
They seem to be jumping all over the place with the chronology this season. Annoying. Instead of Abraham and co. next week, they should have given us Daryl & Carol rescuing Beth (happened at same time as The Hunters' climax). So that would be two consecutive "flashback" episodes with a continuous arc, just like Governor 1 & 2 in S4.
Sinful Hero wrote: So who is everyone thinking the Big Bad will be?
V Possible comic spoiler. V
Spoiler:
I assume Neegan myself.
Spoiler:
Rick and co make it to DC by mid season?
Begin to integrate into the Safe Zone and dominate/lead the community.
They start to think they're safe, and the alpha dogs.
Hear about the Saviours, agree to defend the community.
Then comes the finale and BAM!
Lucille, meet head.
Dick, meet throat.
After an entire season and a half of Rick and co. being total bad asses and killing everyone who gets in their way, they're humiliated and taken down a notch (or 10) by Negan and his band of merry psychopaths, and a major, popular character is killed horribly.
For maximum effect, it should be Daryl.
For sentimental effect, it could be Tyreese.
Sinful Hero wrote: So who is everyone thinking the Big Bad will be?
V Possible comic spoiler. V
Spoiler:
I assume Neegan myself.
Spoiler:
Rick and co make it to DC by mid season?
Begin to integrate into the Safe Zone and dominate/lead the community.
They start to think they're safe, and the alpha dogs.
Hear about the Saviours, agree to defend the community.
Then comes the finale and BAM!
Lucille, meet head.
Dick, meet throat.
After an entire season and a half of Rick and co. being total bad asses and killing everyone who gets in their way, they're humiliated and taken down a notch (or 10) by Negan and his band of merry psychopaths, and a major, popular character is killed horribly.
For maximum effect, it should be Daryl.
For sentimental effect, it could be Tyreese.
I don't think this season will have a Big bad. I think it'll be small groups all season with Rick finally deciding to head to DC at the Mid Season, then more small groups along the way before they meet
It's really hard to figure out the pace this season. It's been breakneck so far, but then that doesn't mean that they'll get to the next big story stage immediately. I'm just going to enjoy the ride.
Although...
Spoiler:
...the safe zone arrival and Negan's appearance are obvious season finale/"midseason finale" (I hate that term)/season opener material. That could play out a number of ways, though.
Rick and co make it to DC by mid season?
Begin to integrate into the Safe Zone and dominate/lead the community.
They start to think they're safe, and the alpha dogs.
Hear about the Saviours, agree to defend the community.
Then comes the finale and BAM!
Lucille, meet head.
Dick, meet throat.
After an entire season and a half of Rick and co. being total bad asses and killing everyone who gets in their way, they're humiliated and taken down a notch (or 10) by Negan and his band of merry psychopaths, and a major, popular character is killed horribly.
For maximum effect, it should be Daryl.
For sentimental effect, it could be Tyreese.
Spoiler:
Having just reread the comics, I think we'll get a season out of the Alexandria community before we even see a whiff of Negan.
I think this season will be mostly about running into various groups surviving in the apocalypse. I don't think we'll get a big bad this season. Them, on the road, is good TV. It's not cheap but thankfully with Madmen getting to over and the ridiculous popularity of the show it doesn't have to be anymore.
We might get one in the season finale but they've shown they don't have to do that. In fact they're rarely done that. Season 1 and 3 ended relatively peacefully. Season 2 ended with the group slightly split but no big guy. Season 4 ended with a super tense situation but had brought almost everyone back together.
Overall I'd say they're not terribly inclined to introduce a "villain" in the final episode of a season. Could change but I don't see it.
Hulksmash wrote: I think this season will be mostly about running into various groups surviving in the apocalypse. I don't think we'll get a big bad this season. Them, on the road, is good TV. It's not cheap but thankfully with Madmen getting to over and the ridiculous popularity of the show it doesn't have to be anymore.
We might get one in the season finale but they've shown they don't have to do that. In fact they're rarely done that. Season 1 and 3 ended relatively peacefully. Season 2 ended with the group slightly split but no big guy. Season 4 ended with a super tense situation but had brought almost everyone back together.
Overall I'd say they're not terribly inclined to introduce a "villain" in the final episode of a season. Could change but I don't see it.
All I can say is "In Gimple I trust!"
I agree. Hopefully they just won't introduce a season long super villian they must triumph over. That story structure has been done with the Govenor... twice and unsuccessfully imo. I find it boring. I hope they just have a season of zombie world road trip adventuring.
I agree. Hopefully they just won't introduce a season long super villian they must triumph over. That story structure has been done with the Govenor... twice and unsuccessfully imo. I find it boring.
Really?
Spoiler:
You're going to really love Negan then.
And by love, I mean hate.
And not in a good way.
And I still think The Next Big Bad shows up in this season's finale...
But until then, I too enjoy the On The Road aspect of the show!
I agree. Hopefully they just won't introduce a season long super villian they must triumph over. That story structure has been done with the Govenor... twice and unsuccessfully imo. I find it boring.
Really?
Spoiler:
You're going to really love Negan then.
And by love, I mean hate.
And not in a good way.
And I still think The Next Big Bad shows up in this season's finale...
But until then, I too enjoy the On The Road aspect of the show!
Spoiler:
It will be interesting to see how they port him over. His language is too...colorful for cable. Also it seems they already changed him up a bit- broke one of his rules from the comics(no sexual violence). Of course the Terminus Neegan could be from before he made the rule(maybe a "on the road" Neegan versus a "Leader of the people" Neegan.
Yeah, I think they already revealed that the brute in the flashback was the crazy guy that they let out of the first container, the guy who was all tattooed up.
That same guy who got eaten by a walker shortly thereafter...
I agree. Hopefully they just won't introduce a season long super villian they must triumph over. That story structure has been done with the Govenor... twice and unsuccessfully imo. I find it boring.
Really?
Spoiler:
You're going to really love Negan then.
And by love, I mean hate.
And not in a good way.
And I still think The Next Big Bad shows up in this season's finale...
But until then, I too enjoy the On The Road aspect of the show!
Spoiler:
No, I think I'm going to hate Negan when it happens especially because it will be a watered down version of him like The Govenor was. However, I also thought I would hate their take on Fear The Hunters but it turned out alright so we'll see. I also think Negan is a long way off. There's so much more tuff they can do before they get to that.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:The Terminus guy is NOT Negan.
Alpharius wrote:Yeah, I think they already revealed that the brute in the flashback was the crazy guy that they let out of the first container, the guy who was all tattooed up.
That same guy who got eaten by a walker shortly thereafter...
My apologies then!
Spoiler:
I still wonder how they'll manage his language and still have him be Neegan though.
I still wonder how they'll manage his language and still have him be Neegan though.
That's kinda the problem - I'd rather they did something different in order to reduce expectations that they may not be able to fulfil or indeed work as well on screen?
oh right... seeing huge amounts of realitic, bloody gore, child on child violence, child on adult violence, almost seeing children raped, and generally seeing the worst of the worst in humanity is ok...
but heaven forbid someone swears on the walking dead and its not acceptable for 14 year olds....
jebus... imagine if they showed a zombie nipple or something...
easysauce wrote: oh right... seeing huge amounts of realitic, bloody gore, child on child violence, child on adult violence, almost seeing children raped, and generally seeing the worst of the worst in humanity is ok...
but heaven forbid someone swears on the walking dead and its not acceptable for 14 year olds....
jebus... imagine if they showed a zombie nipple or something...
easysauce wrote: oh right... seeing huge amounts of realitic, bloody gore, child on child violence, child on adult violence, almost seeing children raped, and generally seeing the worst of the worst in humanity is ok...
but heaven forbid someone swears on the walking dead and its not acceptable for 14 year olds....
jebus... imagine if they showed a zombie nipple or something...
You mean like in the first episode of season one?
Spoiler:
LOL
I think youll notice that they were clever enough to made the nipples rotted off!
its not naked if there aint a nipple! zombie side boob under boob and top boob is ok!
easysauce wrote: oh right... seeing huge amounts of realitic, bloody gore, child on child violence, child on adult violence, almost seeing children raped, and generally seeing the worst of the worst in humanity is ok...
but heaven forbid someone swears on the walking dead and its not acceptable for 14 year olds....
jebus... imagine if they showed a zombie nipple or something...
thinking about it, it could be as cool as - esp his death scene:
One of Negans new rules will be no swearing, so he will actually say feth all the time. This is my fething bat luciel, you fething feth. It might make him seam even more psychotic.
Andrew1975 wrote: One of Negans new rules will be no swearing, so he will actually say feth all the time. This is my fething bat luciel, you fething feth. It might make him seam even more psychotic.
That would actually be quite interesting. No rape, no swearing. Torture and murder are A-okay though! Keeping a bunch of sadists in check with odd rules like that would be entertaining at least.
Andrew1975 wrote: One of Negans new rules will be no swearing, so he will actually say feth all the time. This is my fething bat luciel, you fething feth. It might make him seam even more psychotic.
That would actually be quite interesting. No rape, no swearing. Torture and murder are A-okay though! Keeping a bunch of sadists in check with odd rules like that would be entertaining at least.
Thats what he does, odd rules and hot irons to your noggin when you break the rules.
I can see them actually not even having neegan in it at all. the show is so different, why not?
just have a different big bad or what not.
They still havnt done a single thing with morgan besides showing him for 2 seconds at the end of the terminus episode,
he will likely be tied to the finale in some way, and hes not in the comics *AT ALL* after meeting rick very early in the story, I think people were confusing him with the preacher who
easysauce wrote: I can see them actually not even having neegan in it at all. the show is so different, why not?
just have a different big bad or what not.
They still havnt done a single thing with morgan besides showing him for 2 seconds at the end of the terminus episode,
he will likely be tied to the finale in some way, and hes not in the comics *AT ALL* after meeting rick very early in the story, I think people were confusing him with the preacher who
Spoiler:
makes it to alexandria in the comics
Actually,
Spoiler:
I found TV Governor to be more like Negan than The Govenor. Making TV Negan even more redundant.
easysauce wrote: I can see them actually not even having neegan in it at all. the show is so different, why not?
just have a different big bad or what not.
They still havnt done a single thing with morgan besides showing him for 2 seconds at the end of the terminus episode,
he will likely be tied to the finale in some way, and hes not in the comics *AT ALL* after meeting rick very early in the story, I think people were confusing him with the preacher who
Spoiler:
makes it to alexandria in the comics
Actually,
Spoiler:
I found TV Governor to be more like Negan than The Govenor. Making TV Negan even more redundant.
No, I don't agree.
Spoiler:
The Governor and Negan both have psychopathic tendencies, but their motivations are quite different. Negan's actually a step forward on the path to society. He's interested in working with others, but obviously only on his terms and in a mafioso kind of way, at least until Rick points out that a different path would better lift everyone's boat. Negan actually didn't want to go to war; he wanted to maintain the status quo. I didn't see anything about TV Governor that suggested that kind of thinking. He was still "feth everyone else, take what you need and kill them...even even at the cost of our own people," as his actions at the prison showed.
I honestly think that as both the TV show and comic progress, we will see less and less similarities,
after all,
beth, daryl, morgan, tyreese, the baby, carol and others exist in the TV show, but not in the comic at this point
and several people like andrea, who is critical to the alexandria part of the comic, are just dead and gone.
some of the more popular guys like
Spoiler:
jesus, the king, neegan ect might show up, but quite likely in a totally different way. I really do see negan being cut out, and glenn surviving, the author seems to really want the comic and the show to be very different
easysauce wrote: I can see them actually not even having neegan in it at all. the show is so different, why not?
just have a different big bad or what not.
They still havnt done a single thing with morgan besides showing him for 2 seconds at the end of the terminus episode,
he will likely be tied to the finale in some way, and hes not in the comics *AT ALL* after meeting rick very early in the story, I think people were confusing him with the preacher who
Spoiler:
makes it to alexandria in the comics
No. At this point Morgan is still alive in the comics.
In the comics, while on the road to Washington (after the prison fell) Rick encountered Morgan a second time and discovered that his son had died. Morgan joined Rick there and then, and went to Washington with him
Spoiler:
where Morgan was bitten and died.
In the show, Rick stayed at the prison for longer, and encountered Morgan whilst on a supply run. Unlike the comic, Morgan did not join Rick on this second encounter, probably because Morgan never actually went to the prison in the comics.
They're actually keeping Morgan's arc pretty faithful to the comics, so far anyway. Morgan met and joined Rick when Rick was on the road to Washington. The only difference is that in the show it'll be on their third encounter, not the second.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
easysauce wrote: I honestly think that as both the TV show and comic progress, we will see less and less similarities,
after all,
beth, daryl, morgan, tyreese, the baby, carol and others exist in the TV show, but not in the comic at this point
and several people like andrea, who is critical to the alexandria part of the comic, are just dead and gone.
some of the more popular guys like
Spoiler:
jesus, the king, neegan ect might show up, but quite likely in a totally different way. I really do see negan being cut out, and glenn surviving, the author seems to really want the comic and the show to be very different
Not necessarily. They are definitely changing the character arcs of certain characters, but they're swapping around events and applying them to different people instead.
E.g. instead of Rick having his hand amputated, it was Merle.
Instead of Allen getting his leg amputated it was Hershel.
Instead of Judith being the child in the group to die, it was Sofia.
Instead of Carl being the one to kill the crazy kid who killed his/her brother/sister to protect Sofia/Judith, it was Carol.
Instead of Tyreese being beheaded it was Hershel.
Instead of Dale being the one bitten and attacked by the cannibal Hunters, it was Bob.
Instead of Andrea surviving and becoming Ricks lover, it'll be someone else in the group. Maybe Michonne or Carol.
Instead of you know who having his head caved in by a base ball bat, it'll someone else like Daryl or Tyreese.
At terminus , when the Hunters were going to kill Glenn, that was definitely trolling the comic fans.
Those similarities will still be there, it'll still be briadly the same overall storyline, but the events along the way will be remixed and swapped around. There'll be parallels to the comics, only it'll be Daryl dying, not you know who. Or Tyreese will be bit not
It appears the Atlanta Police/Hospital group storyline will take up a big chunk of this season.
First we had Slabtown, the flashback episode that showed us what happened to Beth and introduced the gang of Atlanta cops. And it appears at least the next 3 episodes will involve that storyline.
Consumed Cautiously, members of our group must venture into a familiar location on a heroic rescue mission. It's a huge stage, but so are the stakes.
Crossed Some members hold down the church while the others are on a rescue mission.
Coda New enemies disregard rules and morals; although Rick wants to find a peaceful agreement, the enemies seem to prefer a more violent resolution.
Looks like Dawn and her Cops will be coming into conflict with Rick and co.
So an unconscious Carol being wheeled into the hospital wasn't a ruse to get her to infiltrate the Hospital Terminus style. It appears that something went wrong - Carol is indeed knocked out somehow and captured, Daryl returns to the Church (possibly with Noah in tow) to enlist Rick's help in rescuing Beth and Carol. (end of episode 3).
Half the group leaves the Church for Atlanta, whilst the others perhaps come under attack at the Church (Walkers probably).
Rick attempts to negotiate with Dawn, but the Cops resort to violence.
Maybe Dawn and her group are after all the "Big Bad" of the season. Or at least, the longest lasting Bad Guys.
I suspect it'll basically be there "midseason" threat. Like the Govenor 2.0 was last seasons first half problem. Same with the hospital group. We'll see. I enjoyed last nights episode. The deeper look into Abraham and Eugene was solid.
I'm sorry but the last episode was a dull filler, ie;
not much happens,
some thing happens,
sexy times,
not much happend,
some thing happens,
not much happens,
ginger hits mullet
It felt like it had been forced, even crowbared into the show. To be perfectly honist, I only care if Maggie or Glen bite it, the others, not really feeling any attachment or warmth for.
Yeah, I thought it was fine. Gave us background on two fairly major characters. I'd stopped reading the comic outside of the random ones here and there by now. So I didn't know that Eugene was lying (for sure, I assumed) or Abrahams background.
So for me it was good character development. Water cannon was fun. Giant herd was cool. Granted I don't care about this group like the other two outside of Glen and Maggie but I wouldn't call it a filler episode.
I thought it was a stellar episode myself. I enjoy these characters a lot so seeing them get some back story makes me happy. I especially loved the Abraham flashback scenes; that dude is hardcore. I would like to see some more backstory on Sophia though.
I enjoyed the episode, I think it was a perfectly good standalone episode. I do think it was badly placed in the season, however, I would have rather have seen it happening either before the hospital sequence or after.
In any case, I was half right about Eugene.
Spoiler:
My theory was originally, that he was lying (correct), but the reason he was lying was that he actually had family back in Washington that he was going through every means necessary to reach, despite being a coward.
I'm a tiny bit disappointed it was just due to him being a jerky jerk but felt bad about it.
I think most people feeling it was a filler was because it was primarily about characters that most people could care less about. The only real feelz most people have for that group is Glenn and Maggie. And they didn't really feature in the episode much (correctly as it was about Abraham and Eugene). So it feels like filler cause they don't care about the people it's about.
I felt it was filler because the pace was slowing down a bit, and didn't really advance all that much.
After the lightning pace of the 3 episode Hunters Arc, we got 1 episode about Beth...and then the pace came to a screeching halt with a slow character development episode in which nothing much happens about Abraham and co. instead of continuing the pace and picking up with Daryl or Carol/Beth.
It was filler, but good filler, if you like Abraham and Eugene. I however am itching for the plot to progress and see Carol and Beth rescued from the hospital and for the gang to continue on the road to Washington.
Sinful Hero wrote: Why would they continue to Washington? They don't have a reason to go there anymore after Eugene fessed up.
Because Eugene is right about Washington likely being the best place for long term survival, given the amount of government facilities in the area.
Spoiler:
IIRC the Alexandria safe zone was a Government "safe haven" zone with self sufficient electrical supplies etc, built specifically to act as a safe zone for members of the Government.
Yeah, I think Richmond has a chance to be the show's Alexandria Safe Zone.
I'd have to rewatch the ep to get the exact words, but IIRC Noah dropped a "they don't know who I am" kind of line to Beth. Maybe Dad was military or a government type, and was therefore connected.
Noah's specific mention of Richmond almost had to be intentional, right?. They're still in Georgia, so why not just say "Virginia"? To me, that's probably a seed being planted in the script.
Yeah, I think Richmond has a chance to be the show's Alexandria Safe Zone.
I'd have to rewatch the ep to get the exact words, but IIRC Noah dropped a "they don't know who I am" kind of line to Beth. Maybe Dad was military or a government type, and was therefore connected.
Noah's specific mention of Richmond almost had to be intentional, right?. They're still in Georgia, so why not just say "Virginia"? To me, that's probably a seed being planted in the script.
I think that Richmond would be easier to represent on TV because there isn't really anything that stands out about the city, the skyline is rather nondescript as far as metro areas go.
Alexandria is only a couple miles from DC and if the characters are that close there is really no reason they wouldn't go into the city (plus, things like the Washington Monument are visible from Alexandria), whereas Richmond is about 3 hours from DC. It would be easier to keep them in Richmond so there is no compelling reason to go to DC, which would complicate filming.
I see that spoiler tags are still a mystery to some people...
I'm not seeing what needs to be spoiler hidden here... We don't have to spoiler the names of characters from the book, and no one is forcing you to click links!
A simple request to Spoiler tag it would have sufficed, a sarcastic remark about "spoiler tags being a mystery" was unnecessary. I didn't spoiler tag it because I don't think it is a spoiler. A name, or a url link in and of itself are not spoilers.
You guys have already had several requests and even instructions from yakface to keep all information from the books in spoiler tags and you still continue to ignore those requests.
How hard is it? If its from the comics and not the TV show, then put it in spoiler tags!
It is assumed that anyone reading this thread has seen the latest episode of the TV show. If you haven't THEN STOP READING IMMEDIATELY UNLESS YOU'RE THE KIND OF PERSON THAT LIKES TO READ THE LAST PAGE OF A NOVEL FIRST.
However, this is a thread about the TV show. Therefore, any talk of any characters or plot developments in the comic books must be put inside of spoiler tags (when you're making a post there is a button that says 'spoiler' that puts spoiler tags around content you want to hide).
Those are names of characters that are not yet in the show and may or may not be a part of it in the future, its the freaking definition of a spoiler. If you wan't to discuss the TV show, then discuss the TV show, if you wan't to discuss the comics then open a new thread so that those of us that aren't interested in them can ignore it in peace.
I think it's a good theory, yes. However, I thought Noah said that the hospital gang didn't save his dad because his dad would have been a threat. In other words, he's dead Jim.
I think it's a good theory, yes. However, I thought Noah said that the hospital gang didn't save his dad because his dad would have been a threat. In other words, he's dead Jim.
I think it's a good theory, yes. However, I thought Noah said that the hospital gang didn't save his dad because his dad would have been a threat. In other words, he's dead Jim.
Oh yeah. Guess that discredits the theory then.
Well, to be fair,
Spoiler:
...they didn't encounter Spencer in Georgia either, and Spencer didn't lead them to Alexandria. It'd be one of their less-direct ports from the comic, but it fits in a very general sense.
Or perhaps Noah is a completely new character, and his dad was a friend/fellow Congressman/etc of Douglas. It may be intentional that we have a "Noah" who may be on the verge of leading a group of survivors to safety in the face of a natural disaster.
I the state of Georgia a sponsor/funding contributor to the show?
It pops up at the end of the credits, so I thought it might be. That would be a good reason to stay in state.
Sinful Hero wrote: Why would they continue to Washington? They don't have a reason to go there anymore after Eugene fessed up.
part of eugenes character arc is that, while he did lie, is IS smarter then pretty much everyone else, and he knows "how to science" so while it will probably take the rest of the season, so that all three groups can become one again, at or near the end they will all end up agreeing with him that washington is the logical place to look for long term survival options
Waaagh_Gonads wrote: I the state of Georgia a sponsor/funding contributor to the show?
It pops up at the end of the credits, so I thought it might be. That would be a good reason to stay in state.
I was going to say the same thing. I don't think the show has ever left the state of Georgia. They probably get some tax breaks or something.
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Sinful Hero wrote: Just out of curiosity, are we supposed to spoiler it when the show and the comics align?
Yes, because that is still spoilers for the comic. Pretty much everything from the comic should be spoiler tagged because this thread is about the TV show.
Well, whats stopping them filming in Georgia but setting it in Washington?
The Alexandria safe zone is on the suburbs of DC right? Surely it can't be that hard to find some city or region in Georgia that resembles parts of the DC suburbs, then fill in the background/skyline with CGI if its necessary to have something recognizable in the background?
Or is Washington DC really unique architecturally?
It's advertised as "filmed on location" which means Georgia is playing itself. I guess they could just stop saying that but I have a feeling it's complicated or something. Hopefully they'll get out of Georgia one of these days...
PhantomViper wrote:
Those are names of characters that are not yet in the show and may or may not be a part of it in the future, its the freaking definition of a spoiler. If you wan't to discuss the TV show, then discuss the TV show, if you wan't to discuss the comics then open a new thread so that those of us that aren't interested in them can ignore it in peace.
Carol isn't coming back to the group. However, now I think that she won't necessarily die but may stay at the hospital to help.
Carol's pretty broken at this point -- and not just from the speeding car -- and she seems to need a place where she can rehab her psyche in a way she won't be able to do on the road with the group.
The difference though - isn't she a certifiable killing machine at this point? They don't seem to keep anyone who's much a threat. Frankly they look kind of weak. How did these turkeys survive outside the hospital?
Carol isn't coming back to the group. However, now I think that she won't necessarily die but may stay at the hospital to help.
Carol's pretty broken at this point -- and not just from the speeding car -- and she seems to need a place where she can rehab her psyche in a way she won't be able to do on the road with the group.
I can't speak for the comic-universe as I've never read it...
But, in this last episode, I think Carol is well on her way of having her psyche "healed".
She's the one who saved Noah, over Daryl's initial objection.
Carol isn't coming back to the group. However, now I think that she won't necessarily die but may stay at the hospital to help.
Carol's pretty broken at this point -- and not just from the speeding car -- and she seems to need a place where she can rehab her psyche in a way she won't be able to do on the road with the group.
I can't speak for the comic-universe as I've never read it...
But, in this last episode, I think Carol is well on her way of having her psyche "healed".
She's the one who saved Noah, over Daryl's initial objection.
Nothing to do with the comics.
Spoiler:
I don't know that she's "well on her way" after sparing one dude. She has ridiculous amounts of blood on her hands. But even if she's on the path, I don't think the path leads back to the group, where the role that consumed her was doing every dirty job that she thought needed to be done. Remember, she was trying to leave the group when Daryl found her.
I think they roam around searching for weak vulnerable people, knock them out, drag them to the hospital and force them into servitude. Running Carol over looked deliberate.
There's no way that officer who tried to assault Beth just "found her" unconscious in the road. He was the one who knocked her out and kidnapped her.
They're not just "rescuing" people and demanding service in payment. They're actively stalking and kidnapping slaves.
It'll be interesting to see exactly how it all goes down.
Are the writers are making a profoundly depressing point with the hospital crowd -- that any attempt at "civilization" in what's left of this world is bound to rot and descend into depravity?
Or does Dawn represent some kind of alternate reality Rick (with the guy who attacked Beth an alternate reality Shane) who's been unable to adapt and move on? It's interesting that they're both law enforcement officers, and the hospital setting and Beth's awakening obviously recalls Rick in the hospital. It'll be an interesting conversation if/when they meet.
The hospital gang has that great dichotomy between their pressed clothing/clean shaves/neat haircuts and their despicable actions. Meanwhile, Rick and company look like barbarians -- and act like barbarians in some ways too -- but have avoided becoming depraved.
The message here might be about the importance of recognizing that the old civilization is gone for good, AND keeping the hope that it's still possible to forge a new one that isn't twisted and rotten. Which, well, you know...
Regarding the Cops, its not particularly hard to imagine certain Cops, and other figures of authority, reverting into predators following a societal collapse. Theres no higher power, no higher authority and system of checks and balances to restrain them and hold them accountable. If they rape somebody, who's going to arrest them? And as Police Officers, or Soldiers, or Members of Congress (hint ) they still hold some lingering degree of authority in this new world, and can easily abuse it.
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cincydooley wrote: I got the impression that most of them weren't actually cops, but were simply assigned the role of "police officer;' Am I wrong there?
Probably, though its possible one or two of them actually were recruited and appointed by Dawn as pseudo Cops.
My impression was more that the guys (particularly the one who assaulted Beth) were simply more aware of the realities of the new world, that there is no more civilization, no-one's coming to rescue them and they're free to do as they please. Dawn on the other hand is clinging to the delusion that if they can only just hang out long enough, they will be rescued and civilization will be restored and thinks turning a blind eye and letting the worst of her Officers "blow off some steam" is a necessary but temporary evil.
The guy who assaults Beth flat out says that Dawn won't be around forever (and in Dawn's presence IIRC), implying that there'll be no restraining him once shes gone.
I agree that all of the cops were probably real cops before the apocalypse. It would make sense for them all to be together, especially at the hospital, when all the gak went down and now they are carrying out their original job (albeit, a little more on the evil side now).
I'm with you regarding the in-hospital stuff. Not much happened there, although we did see it once again underlined that Dawn and her situation have some complexities.
I disagree with the DC crew scenes...those were mostly about Rosita, and the character deserved more screen time after Abraham and Eugene had their moments. Again, TWD is a character-driven drama. And we're going to lose old cast members eventually...the new ones need to be properly "introduced" to us.
And I think that the Atlanta scenes set up the "midseason finale" (a dumb term) pretty well. It didn't feel like filler to me. *shrug* And I'd rather that the whole thing isn't rushed.
Of course, having said that, if the next ep ends on a cliffhanger with the hospital crew, I'll be mildly irritated that it wasn't more "rushed."
I think shifting between four viewpoints is what really slowed it down(six if you split Rosita and the preacher from their groups). You really start limiting the screen time for a specific group, and there's not a whole lot they can accomplish in ten minutes.
Recent episodes have really knocked it down in my estimation. Carol being stupid enough to just sprint out into the street (resulting in being hit by the car) and the cop's escape, too much
I liked it. It fleshed out the hospitallers to show that the situation is complex. They're not just "the bad guys".
I think the show has gone with the theory that breaking the group up into multiple pieces allows multiple storylines which keeps the flow going. It seems to be working but I hope they all get back together again soon.
I like the conflict rick had when he had his gun aimed at the cop. you could tell he wanted to execute him there but lucklily crossbow-man talked him down
I think what they have been doing with Rick is great. Basically he's willing to do anything to keep his people safe and he's inclined to take very swift action leaning toward ending threats permanently but he's using the rest of his group (at least the important, long term people) as his moral compass.
Overall I liked the episode. No matter how dumb the final bit was with Sasha......Not gonna lie. Looking forward to seeing, hopefully, some of the hanger-on characters dying in the next episode (i.e. sasha, tyrese, preacher, the chick that was with the govenor)
mitch_rifle wrote: I like the conflict rick had when he had his gun aimed at the cop. you could tell he wanted to execute him there but lucklily crossbow-man talked him down
Which ended up being a terrible decision!
I like stone cold rick. He's much better than wishy washy emo Rick.
I didn't see it as wishy washy in this case. He's stone cold when he doesn't have the upper hand and needs to be. But he's not a soulless killer. And that guy was the one actually behaving himself. Unless all non-white people look alike to you
@Alpharius
Some characters just annoy me. They got rid of most of the ones that did since the beginning of the show (Lori, Andrea, Dale, T-Dog). It's not weird to me to understand that some people on the show are going to die (they kinda have to) and to look forward to it being an ancillary character I dislike.
I actually really enjoyed this episode more than the last few. - Well, I liked the Eugene one too.
I'm also a bit disappointed about the last couple of minutes too. - I was just thinking, "don't be a jerk, don't be a jerk...."
I'm curious about what's going on with Carol now. I expected heroic deathness but that'd seem to be rather redundant considering how badly injured she actually seems.
Evidently if you are not part of the main characters of the show, you are a bad guy. Its actually getting a bit boring, unfortunately. I wanted for the cop to be a good guy, but I knew exactly what was going to happen. Frankly I'm surprised she didn't go out the window!
I had called out the window to my wife. My guess is he didn't actually want to kill her. That said yeah, I was hoping he wasn't a douche but knew where it was going the minute he said he could show her the guy.....
Yeah, that part literally had to be the most transparent thing I've seen on the show yet. But maybe because I am gun-shy and now expect everyone to be a bad guy that they meet, because evidently everyone in the world but them has gone insane. Or maybe they are insane because they still trust everyone they meet, after all they have been through.
That was just one of the cops. I get a sense the other two cops want out of the hospital situation as well. The cop that did the face smashing (Bob2) was disagreeing with the other cops about staging a coup. And yes, he didn't kill her even though I think it would have been more interesting if he did.
Also, who's to say everyone in the group is good. For some reason Daryl had to talk Rick out of killing that other cop. Rick has quite the bloodlust lately.
They've met many people who where not evil they just usually end up joining together into a new group. Tyreese & co for example and now Team Abraham. Bob, Terra etc.
Sinful Hero wrote: I think Rick just wanted to shoot somebody. That whole beginning scene could have been avoided if Rick would have just jumped out and grabbed him.
Also I'm upset about the end. That was one of the characters I didn't want to have offed. Besides Carl and Judith there are no children left.
The dude just knocked out one of his people (Rick probably didn't know if she was even awake yet) and escaped after Rick had actually treated them extremely humanely. Rick is on a strict 1-strike policy (stole that from Keys on the Talking Dead). Why injure himself in a scuffle by jumping out and grabbing him and putting himself in danger. The guy didn't stop and had hurt one of his people. That's a guilty sentence and there is only one punishment for a guilty sentence in the zombie apocalypse.
As for the end yeah, I was hoping that character would be around for a bit. But like they said on the talking dead. "Don't be a moral compass or a shining light or your next"
I mean, we all talked about that character being a possibility. But it still sucked.
Edit: Kirkman made a pretty big character reveal on Talking Dead. Definitely nailed down where they'll be next season. And it debunked one theory here about Morgan.
So what *IS* up with Morgan and those tree symbols?
I mean, we all talked about that character being a possibility. But it still sucked.
Edit: Kirkman made a pretty big character reveal on Talking Dead. Definitely nailed down where they'll be next season. And it debunked one theory here about Morgan.
So what *IS* up with Morgan and those tree symbols?
Do you mind sharing that reveal in spoiler tags? I don't have cable, so I download the episodes, but don't also get Talking Dead.
I mean, we all talked about that character being a possibility. But it still sucked.
Edit: Kirkman made a pretty big character reveal on Talking Dead. Definitely nailed down where they'll be next season. And it debunked one theory here about Morgan.
So what *IS* up with Morgan and those tree symbols?
Do you mind sharing that reveal in spoiler tags? I don't have cable, so I download the episodes, but don't also get Talking Dead.
Thanks!
Sure, comic spoiler ahead...
Spoiler:
A prominent gay character from the comics will be appearing on the show next season.
Praise Jesus?
And yeah, "Noah" may be needed to shepherd the survivors of a natural disaster to safety. Although I never pictured the Ark as a fire engine...
Great episode. I was skeptical at first but this group was actually complex with complex characters. I didn't think they could top terminus but actually I was thinking about it and the Hospital just reminds me of a really dysfunctional workplace. It's more relatable and somehow worse. Don't get me wrong the Termites are more evil but I just can't relate to them. This is only way the show can continue. Each group can not be even more crazier and more evil than the next. They just need to be interesting and plausible and be worked into a good story.
I rewatched this episode. I think it's a really strong one, especially the final 10 minutes or so.
Something I didn't consciously notice on the first viewing is that the hospital hallway exchange scene was filmed with the camera at a steep angle. It really expressed (at least to me) Dawn's skewed, unstable mind...and maybe Rick's stable kind of insanity too. Neither of them could be considered to be sane by our everyday standards, right?
Dawn looks like she's completely cracking up *just* under the surface at the moment she asks for Noah. And then the very next shot is a close-up of Rick with his face in shadow, and you know Rick's *ON* switch has just been flipped.
I think the Terminus group was purer and simpler evil. Hell, the one thing that Rick, the Governor, Negan, etc would have agreed on is that the Hunters were sick feths who needed to be put down permanently.
But the hospital group was quite twisted and evil, because slavery is twisted and evil. And the writers were definitely exploring slavery themes. Note the casting of an African-American actor as Noah.
Haven't watched it a second time yet but I have to agree with a lot of the above. Additionally it was nice (though some will call it anti-climatic) to not have it turn into a blood bath like most of their other group encounters have.
I kept thinking over and over as it was happening that there is no way this is going to work. I'm absolutely shocked that no one else left with Rick's group other than Noah from the hospital.
I still don't quite understand why the dead character stabbed Dawn and basically committed suicide as there was now hope rather than earlier when there was a lot less?
Mr Morden wrote: I still don't quite understand why the dead character stabbed Dawn and basically committed suicide as there was now hope rather than earlier when there was a lot less?
I don't actually think Dawn meant to kill Beth. When it went all slow-mo I'm pretty sure she was mouthing that it was an accident (not that it mattered to Daryl or Rick).
All sorts of reasons for Beth to stab her. Dawn was a subversive evil, almost, in that she was unwilling to bloody her hands herself. And the whole slavery thing.
And per the Talking Dead the character said she got a bit cocky. If you watch she puts Dawn between her and the other cops, almost like a shield, and then, since her theory is that Dawn doesn't bloody her hands, stabs Dawn so her friend can stay with the group. She miscalculated and paid the price.
I actually think it's a good thing to show. Just didn't want Beth to be the one that went down.
Mr Morden wrote: I still don't quite understand why the dead character stabbed Dawn and basically committed suicide as there was now hope rather than earlier when there was a lot less?
I don't actually think Dawn meant to kill Beth. When it went all slow-mo I'm pretty sure she was mouthing that it was an accident (not that it mattered to Daryl or Rick).
All sorts of reasons for Beth to stab her. Dawn was a subversive evil, almost, in that she was unwilling to bloody her hands herself. And the whole slavery thing.
No I agree that Dawn's shooting was instinctive and she was obviously horrified by the act and its consequences.
But why did Beth stab her then and not earlier, or just get one of her gun toting friends to do it..............as she was potentially about to plunge them all into a gun fight - yeah I get that people do odd things - especially under tension but just seemed an odd (and depressing) end - but maybe that was the point - she died for nothing?
Hulksmash wrote: And per the Talking Dead the character said she got a bit cocky. If you watch she puts Dawn between her and the other cops, almost like a shield, and then, since her theory is that Dawn doesn't bloody her hands, stabs Dawn so her friend can stay with the group. She miscalculated and paid the price.
I actually think it's a good thing to show. Just didn't want Beth to be the one that went down.
I got the impression that none of the other cops really wanted to back Dawn if they didn't have to, anyways. Makes me wonder how it could have gone down differently had ole dude not rammed Sasha's head into the window.
Hulksmash wrote: And per the Talking Dead the character said she got a bit cocky. If you watch she puts Dawn between her and the other cops, almost like a shield, and then, since her theory is that Dawn doesn't bloody her hands, stabs Dawn so her friend can stay with the group. She miscalculated and paid the price.
I actually think it's a good thing to show. Just didn't want Beth to be the one that went down.
I got the impression that none of the other cops really wanted to back Dawn if they didn't have to, anyways. Makes me wonder how it could have gone down differently had ole dude not rammed Sasha's head into the window.
Well the female cop who survived was very quick to suggest offing Dawn when captured - I don't get the impression anything is better with Dawn dead - it was clear the system would still carry on when she was dead?
Of the remaining characters - Beth was always going to be one of those I would miss most - especially since Eugene survived for some reason............... :(
While I'm sure that Hulk's happy (), Beth's death did seem kind of forced and more along the lines of "Well, we've gots to kill someone!!!" that something that actually made sense or flowed with the story.
Still, should slake the bloodthirst for some, at least for a while I'd suppose.
Meh, not blood thirsty. And she wasn't part of my list of people that I'd happily send off I liked Beth. I didn't feel like it was forced. It is a theme that if you're a shining light, moral compass, or upbeat you're dead.
Dale - Moral Compass
Axel - Relentlessly upbeat
Herschel - Moral Compass
Bob - Relentlessly Upbeat
Beth - Shining light/Upbeat (season 4-5 at least)
She was walking wounded unfortunately. I wish she'd lasted longer but I don't feel like it was forced. I feel like her death will impact the entire group and the audience. Something the death of most of the people I wanted out wouldn't do at all.
It's the apocalypse. People die. And I'd say that their ratings the last two seasons really reflect that Gimple and Kirkman are doing a bang up job.
Mr Morden wrote: I still don't quite understand why the dead character stabbed Dawn and basically committed suicide as there was now hope rather than earlier when there was a lot less?
I don't actually think Dawn meant to kill Beth. When it went all slow-mo I'm pretty sure she was mouthing that it was an accident (not that it mattered to Daryl or Rick).
Having seen it a second time, I think her words were "I didn't mean to..."
Yeah, but you did, Dawn. That and plenty of other things. Enjoy the air-conditioned forehead.
Hulksmash wrote: She was walking wounded unfortunately. I wish she'd lasted longer but I don't feel like it was forced. I feel like her death will impact the entire group and the audience. Something the death of most of the people I wanted out wouldn't do at all.
The fact that her death was so impactful is a tribute to the writers and actor, and how much they've elevated the character. A couple seasons ago, her death would have been met with more of a shrug. Since then, we've grown to really like Beth and recognize her unique strength.
As the previews showed, the group is going to be emotionally wrecked by this, which is something considering how emotionally damaged they all are. It's a great motivation for them to look for a different kind of life, and move to the next phase of the story.
Mr Morden wrote: Yeah I get that - although Tyreese is a moral compass as well?
Its been a really good season so far but this death just seemed more pointless than normal?
tyreese has a bit of a character arc though, he mentions thinking about the incident in the cabin with the canibal and the baby,
I think either his arc will see him become more ruthless, harder/ect or he will give up or sacrifice shimself and die.
there really does seems to be a theme of nice/soft people getting the axe.
I think they did beths death really well, I knew it was a possiblity but I didnt actually KNOW it was gonna happen till it happened.
I was actually a bit dissapointed as I was hoping beths arc would make her into more of a badass, and I though she was actually going to kill the cop lady and get away with it, so when I saw beths head explode, it was quite the shock.
Yep. It's a testament to the writers that after season 2 Beth we could care about her death. And the group is absolutely going to be rocked by the death of the 3rd youngest member and only relative left from the oldest members of the group that isn't part of Ricks family. Especially doubled up on the no DC information.
And I wouldn't say Tyreese is a moral compass yet (not sure he'll get there). Tyreese feels like more of a moral wimp. His attitude is basically pacificistic. That's not the same as a moral compass. Dale was a moral compass for the time when maybe society as it stood could be upheld. Herscel was a moral compass for what the world had actually turned into. Tyreese doesn't even come close to filling those shoes.
Well, Tyreese is still figuring things out, I think. Clearly he's not comfortable with the person he's become, or at least what the world is trying to make him become. Meanwhile (and in contrast), Rick in particular is increasingly comfortable with what he's become. So the need is there for someone to remind the group not to lose its humanity, but I'm not sure that Tyreese has figured out his "voice" yet. Maybe the exchange plan was the beginning of it.
I think Rick's reaction to Dawn demanding Noah shows his humanity is still there. It's just narrowly focussed now. He'll help individuals (reasonable) and he'll do anything for his group. He even, once he decided not to kill them, was treating the cops he caught with respect and kindness (for the situation) until the one hurt a member of his family and tried to escape (thereby endangering more of his family). Rick is insane by our standards but a truly stand-up fella and distrubingly sane individual by the standards of the world he lives in.
And yeah, maybe Tyreese gets his voice at some point. I was just pointing out that right now he's nowhere near a moral compass for the group. The closest would be Daryl but he's not so much a compass as a moral checkpoint and even then him and Rick are on the same page. 1-strike and you're out.
I figured it would take place on the west coast for a dog ugly different perspective, but I have no idea and haven't read/heard anything about it other than it's a thing.
Having not watch any of the new season (I'm one of those elusive types who actually waits for the DvD release), and well dropping in on the latest page, I can say that I'm not surprised at Beth's death. Whilst some comic characters are living, I suspect that they're easier to kill off than longer running ones (well bar Dale and Andrea). Beth died pretty soon into the comics along with the rest of the Greene family (bar Maggie), so her hanging on so long pretty didn't really lift that noose around her neck. Like I said though, the writers seem to have a thing for throwing away characters that should have lived, so maybe we won't see those that shouldn't have being used as sacrificial lambs. Its nice to see how they could have developed were circumstances different, and well I can certainly agree that the comics can be much more trigger happy with the deaths. ...Though I generally prefer the tv series much more than the comics as the character development is much greater (if the tv series went through things like the comics they could cut down whole seasons to a few episodes. All that fluff is what makes me like the tv series more).
I'm liking how they introduced a certain character later on and are only developing his arc now. I'm sorting of wondering where that will go, given that he formed a romantic relationship, whereas I don't really see that with either of the female characters he did in the comics. ...Nor do I see one of them going out like she did. Oh the crypticness.
Spoiler:
Sure Tyreese and Carol are close, but I don't see them becoming more than friends. Neither would I expect Carol to commit suicide like she did in the comics as she is such a stronger character. Particularly given that Tyreese had to deal with the death of his stand in girlfriend instead. I'd say that Tyreese is a contender for making it to the settlements later in the series and disappearing that way, as to me it'd be a bit cheap to kill him off now, not to say that that happen. The same goes for Carol, she isn't the same character, though she can't very well disappear again as a way of bumping her off. I wonder... Oh, and random question: what's Tyreese's job in the Tv series? Still a basketball player who became a car salesmen? So much has been changed already that I don't think this point has even came up.
So if we're already on the D.C. story arc, just how long till a particular group of "saviors" turn up and Rick can get back to his gardening?
Actually, "Beth" didn't exist in the comics - she has no direct comic book counterpart.
There was Lacey, an elder sister to Maggie, and there the twin sisters Rachel and Susie, the youngest of the kids. There were also two sons, Arnold and Shawn.
Lacey died before they left the farm. The Twins at the prison. Arnold died at the farm with Lacey when the walkers in the barn broke out, and Shawn died before Rick arrived.
You should probably have the rest of that behind spoiler tags, as per the mods' instructions regarding comic book info.
Anyhoo...(comic spoilers ahead)
Spoiler:
As we discussed earlier, Kirkman said that 'a prominent gay character' would be appearing next season. That could be one of a few of D.C.-area characters. But in any of those cases, I think it suggests that they reach the safe zone next season, which probably means the Saviors next season too.
Also, Kevin Durand said that he was approached about playing Negan next season. He may or may not get the role, but I think the timing seems pretty clear at this point.
I felt not a whole lot happened myself, but there were a few mysteries.
Spoiler:
Who attacked the compound?
Why was there a truck full of limbless zombies with X's on their heads?
...
Why didn't they do more with the episode? Honestly, it's like the only thing that happened was Tyreese got bit. That's exciting and all, but couldn't they have done a little more or something?
If your main takeaway from that stellar episode was "nothing much happened," I'm not sure what to say. Maybe I should repeat what I've said many times in this thread -- it's a character-driven drama.
Anyway, IMO both Chad Coleman and the director really brought it in this episode.
Spoiler:
It was probably the best sendoff any character's had on the show. Coleman really brought a unique mix of power and decency to the role, and I think this episode showcased it perfectly. Farewell Tyreese.
Regarding other events, it would be easy to say that the destruction of Noah's home was the work of a certain prominent band from the comics, but Richmond seems awfully far for that group to roam. Plus it seems like there was something else at work with the whole zombie quartering thing.
I suspect that we're looking at another group of naughty people to keep Rick's crew busy until they (almost certainly) reach their ultimate destination by the end of this season.
Is it weird that with a half-season to go, I already can't wait until NEXT season?
Sinful Hero wrote: I felt not a whole lot happened myself, but there were a few mysteries.
Spoiler:
Who attacked the compound? Why was there a truck full of limbless zombies with X's on their heads? ... Why didn't they do more with the episode? Honestly, it's like the only thing that happened was Tyreese got bit. That's exciting and all, but couldn't they have done a little more or something?
[/spoiler]
Spoiler:
I would say the Saviors...but Washington is 100 miles away apparently. Unless they don't end up at Washington. Maybe they'll stumble across a settlement along the way in a different place and that'll be the shows version of the Alexandria safe zone.
The Saviors used Walkers as a security measure - they had dozens of walkers all impaled on stakes along the walls of their compound "The Sanctuary".
Otherwise, if this IS a new group, it'll probably be a completely original creation of the show. In the comics, the only hostile groups Rick and co. encountered on the road to Washington were the Marauders and the Hunters. And both groups have been dealt with.
Yeah, the send off for Tyreese was excellent. Seeing some old lost friends and enemies was excellent. The way the radio "show" wove into the show and the current state of humanity was amazing as well. Also I can't get over how much that guy Tyreese nearly beat to death looks and acts like Kevin Durand.
I did notice the graffiti right off the bat once they enetered the compound that said something along the lines of "Wolves don't Fear". And also from the Talking Dead it seemed it was W's etched into the zombies at the end, not X's.
Either way it was a solid episode that really highlighted Tyreese in a way the directors don't get to do much. Like the actor said, Gimple loved Tyreese and you can see it in the episode.
I figured he was going to go away fairly quickly (i.e. sometime this season) but I didn't expect back to back 3+ seasons character deaths.
I was wondering what that graffiti said. Thanks for that.
Comic spoilers in the next spoiler-
Spoiler:
Pure speculation: Could they be borrowing the people who walk among walkers from the comics? Very unlikely, but it could fit in a "wolves in sheep's clothing" thing, continuing the wolf motif. Of course we won't know until that group shows up.
@gorgon
Personally, I don't watch the tv show for the character drama. I feel that sort of thing is better captured in written form(not saying it cant be done well, but things like motivations can be more easily conveyed other ways).
I mostly just watch the show for zombie smashing, and how the characters react to the situations they're in.
Spoiler:
They shouldn't have killed off Tyreese IMO. It just felt cheap. Would have been much better to show him slowly recover on the road, and basically be a burden until he finally gets better. Or not get bitten at all.
After stringing out Beth's kidnapping for two seasons, only to have her die when they finally get her back, followed by killing the black guy in one episode I'm just getting aggravated at the show now.
I don't know I just didn't care for that episode. It felt like a filler episode that they had to sacrifice a character in to have something happen. It's too bad Tyreese will never become the badass from the comic now.
As for being a moral compass being a death sentence it certainly seems that way. I'm worried Glenn will be next. He seems like one of the few left that fit that role.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I don't know I just didn't care for that episode. It felt like a filler episode that they had to sacrifice a character in to have something happen. It's too bad Tyreese will never become the badass from the comic now.
As for being a moral compass being a death sentence it certainly seems that way. I'm worried Glenn will be next. He seems like one of the few left that fit that role.
Oh I don't know about that. IIRC Glenn made it pretty clear that he would have killed Dawn for what she did to Beth, and that it didn't matter if they killed Dawn or not.
I'm fine with it being a character drama and all that. - In fact, I pretty do darn enjoy it.
However, spending time on what is basically character development of a dead character, I find to be completely pointless.
Ok, sure, give a send-off or whatever but ultimately, the interesting characters are the ones that are still alive.
It's like my opinion of all the Beth episodes in the first half. Ok, sure, they were interesting for a while, yay, interesting character development for Beth. But, basically, at the end of it all, everyone involved (except for Noah, who weaved in and out), was dead.
So, well, what was learned from it for the remaining characters? Nothing.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I don't know I just didn't care for that episode. It felt like a filler episode that they had to sacrifice a character in to have something happen. It's too bad Tyreese will never become the badass from the comic now.
As for being a moral compass being a death sentence it certainly seems that way. I'm worried Glenn will be next. He seems like one of the few left that fit that role.
Oh I don't know about that. IIRC Glenn made it pretty clear that he would have killed Dawn for what she did to Beth, and that it didn't matter if they killed Dawn or not.
I am of two minds. It was a really well done episode, and I enjoyed it from a certain perspective.
But on the other hand it didn't forward the story at all aside from a few cryptic hints, and frankly spending an entire episode giving such a strong farewell to a character breaks with how such things have been treated.
Tyreese was okay, but did he really deserve that kind of sendoff when more important characters didn't?
Overall it just served to highlight to me why I liked Z-Nation so much. Campy? Kind of dumb and terrible? Sure.
But things happen. Quickly.
Spoiler:
aside from their groundhogs days/mystery spot/dream episode. That sucked.
Not really. It seems like they killed them to spite the audience more than anything else. It's kinda turning me off the show again. Meaningless deaths are the bread and butter of TWD, but that last episode seems like they just killed the person to fill an episode as has been said.
Yeah, didn't feel that way at all to me Sinful Hero.
The episode itself covers that they have traveled over 500 miles. Shows again that humanity is it's worst enemy (in the radio show and the actual development) . Again shows that staying alert is critical in the zombie apocalypse. Played on the idea that everyone has a purpose.
To be honest Tyreese never fit in the new world and he flat refused to adjust. He is very similar to Dawn in that he thinks this is temporary. It's not an attitude that helps you survive.
And I'd say that not many deaths in TWD are meaningless. They are almost invariably a major part of driving the narrative and personalities of those in the show.
I did notice the graffiti right off the bat once they enetered the compound that said something along the lines of "Wolves don't Fear". And also from the Talking Dead it seemed it was W's etched into the zombies at the end, not X's. .
Spoiler:
It wasn't Wolves don't fear. It was 'Wolves not far'.
Hulksmash wrote: Yeah, didn't feel that way at all to me Sinful Hero.
The episode itself covers that they have traveled over 500 miles. Shows again that humanity is it's worst enemy (in the radio show and the actual development) . Again shows that staying alert is critical in the zombie apocalypse. Played on the idea that everyone has a purpose.
To be honest Tyreese never fit in the new world and he flat refused to adjust. He is very similar to Dawn in that he thinks this is temporary. It's not an attitude that helps you survive.
And I'd say that not many deaths in TWD are meaningless. They are almost invariably a major part of driving the narrative and personalities of those in the show.
But to each their own.
You said that a lot more diplomatically than I would have.
I mean, to criticize this episode and then hold up Z Nation as what TWD should be doing? Wow. Yeah.
yeah tyrese was too "good" to live, his death was foreshadowed quite a bit.
A fair amount happened in this episode, though I do feel the pace was a bit slow IMO
what was up with the radio though? was that tyrese hallucinating or was it real?
be interesting to see what awaits in DC, if the radio is real, it seems to be foreshadowing the saviours I think
for what its worth, Z nation is actually doing a pretty good job... I never saw a lot of the deaths coming as I did with TWD, but TWD is still the far better show production value wise, both are entertaining.
The radio was the BBC programing his dad used to make them listen to. It was a memory of his childhood. It just happened that that hallucination blended perfectly with the current state of the world 2 years post zombie apocalypse.
Hulksmash wrote: Yeah, didn't feel that way at all to me Sinful Hero.
The episode itself covers that they have traveled over 500 miles. Shows again that humanity is it's worst enemy (in the radio show and the actual development) . Again shows that staying alert is critical in the zombie apocalypse. Played on the idea that everyone has a purpose.
To be honest Tyreese never fit in the new world and he flat refused to adjust. He is very similar to Dawn in that he thinks this is temporary. It's not an attitude that helps you survive.
And I'd say that not many deaths in TWD are meaningless. They are almost invariably a major part of driving the narrative and personalities of those in the show.
But to each their own.
You said that a lot more diplomatically than I would have.
I mean, to criticize this episode and then hold up Z Nation as what TWD should be doing? Wow. Yeah.
Hulksmash wrote: The radio was the BBC programing his dad used to make them listen to. It was a memory of his childhood. It just happened that that hallucination blended perfectly with the current state of the world 2 years post zombie apocalypse.
that makes sense.
also,
I just noticed I have barely seen carl play a major role in the episodes in ages
Hulksmash wrote: The radio was the BBC programing his dad used to make them listen to. It was a memory of his childhood. It just happened that that hallucination blended perfectly with the current state of the world 2 years post zombie apocalypse.
I read that the person on the radio was Andrew Lincoln in his British accent.
I love this show and the wife and I watch every episode ... just as we do Justified and Archer. The killing of characters is going to happen, some I want to see die (Rick's wife ... I was actually rooting for that) and others I was sad to see go (Herschel).
Spoiler:
A buddy of mine told me that by this time in the comic, Carl was the only one left alive.
Hulksmash wrote: The radio was the BBC programing his dad used to make them listen to. It was a memory of his childhood. It just happened that that hallucination blended perfectly with the current state of the world 2 years post zombie apocalypse.
I read that the person on the radio was Andrew Lincoln in his British accent.
Yeah, they pointed that out on the Talking Dead. The idea that even if he was remembering things from the past it might be tinged with a voice that was vaguely familiar or some such. I think Andrew Lincoln wanted to speak normally for a few minutes
OIIIIIIO wrote: I love this show and the wife and I watch every episode ... just as we do Justified and Archer. The killing of characters is going to happen, some I want to see die (Rick's wife ... I was actually rooting for that) and others I was sad to see go (Herschel).
Spoiler:
A buddy of mine told me that by this time in the comic, Carl was the only one left alive.
One more thing ... Carl, get in the house.
Hahaha, no.
Currently still alive as of TWD 137:
[SPOILERS]
Spoiler:
Rick Carl Andrea Maggie (and her now 2 year old son Hershel) Michonne Rosita Eugene
OIIIIIIO wrote: I love this show and the wife and I watch every episode ... just as we do Justified and Archer. The killing of characters is going to happen, some I want to see die (Rick's wife ... I was actually rooting for that) and others I was sad to see go (Herschel).
Spoiler:
A buddy of mine told me that by this time in the comic, Carl was the only one left alive.
One more thing ... Carl, get in the house.
Hahaha, no.
Currently still alive as of TWD 137:
[SPOILERS]
Spoiler:
Rick
Carl
Andrea
Maggie (and her now 2 year old son Hershel)
Michonne
Rosita
Eugene
OIIIIIIO wrote: I love this show and the wife and I watch every episode ... just as we do Justified and Archer. The killing of characters is going to happen, some I want to see die (Rick's wife ... I was actually rooting for that) and others I was sad to see go (Herschel).
Spoiler:
A buddy of mine told me that by this time in the comic, Carl was the only one left alive.
One more thing ... Carl, get in the house.
Hahaha, no.
Currently still alive as of TWD 137:
[SPOILERS]
Spoiler:
Rick
Carl
Andrea
Maggie (and her now 2 year old son Hershel)
Michonne
Rosita
Eugene
Given the dense pre-zombie population of the eastern seaboard (and one now assumes the post-zombie population as well), why the hell are they going north? There should be roughly 100 million zombies between them and the Canadian border.
For all the Carl haters here, a significant development in his character arc occurred in this week's COMIC BOOK issue.
Spoiler:
he loses his virginity. Carl is growing up.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Breotan wrote: Given the dense pre-zombie population of the eastern seaboard (and one now assumes the post-zombie population as well), why the hell are they going north? There should be roughly 100 million zombies between them and the Canadian border.
Because they figured Washington, being the seat of Federal government with large concentrations of troops, federal facilities and federal emergency services and resources; would have held out the longest. Therefore it should have more resources, weapons, and survivors than the average town or city.
Spoiler:
Which the comics show to be true. When they arrive in Washington, there are at least four significant walled settlements with sizeable populations comparable to The Prison (show version - in the comics it was just Rick and friends, the Woodbury survivors did not join them).
Thanks to all the guys who take the time to post up what they know about the differences between the show and the comics. Until not that long ago I was not even aware that there was a comic. It is interesting to me how they change things for the TV show, now that I know there is a source material.
Sinful Hero wrote: The comic is a lot more hardcore than the show- for obvious reasons.
{comic spoiler below}
Spoiler:
Can't have little Timmy tuning in to watch Judith get blown to bits now can we?
Spoiler:
well actually, she doesn't. Lori is shot through the chest, and collapses on top of Judith. If Judith wasn't crushed and smothered by Lori, she gets eaten by walkers.
Sinful Hero wrote: The comic is a lot more hardcore than the show- for obvious reasons.
{comic spoiler below}
Spoiler:
Can't have little Timmy tuning in to watch Judith get blown to bits now can we?
Spoiler:
well actually, she doesn't. Lori is shot through the chest, and collapses on top of Judith. If Judith wasn't crushed and smothered by Lori, she gets eaten by walkers.
I really need to go back and reread this series. I keep misremembering things! The comic is still a good bit more...mature? Than the show though. You just can't put some stuff on cable that you can on paper.
Carl, who is is maybe about 12 at this point in the comics (he's older on the show) loses his virginity to a 16 year old girl captured from a hostile group who disguises themselves using the flayed skin and faces of walkers so they pass safely within herds. They literally live WITH the walkers. But they're not cannibals, because that's totally gross.
Actually that spoiler is unnecessary. That tv episode has already aired, so it's not a spoiler. It's assumed in this thread that everyone is up to date with the show.
Only details of events in the comics that have not yet occurred on the show need to be spoilers.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Actually that spoiler is unnecessary. That tv episode has already aired, so it's not a spoiler. It's assumed in this thread that everyone is up to date with the show.
Only details of events in the comics that have not yet occurred on the show need to be spoilers.
Well, I'm getting snarky responses about suggesting a TWD comic book thread, but as I see it... Discuss the TV show here and discuss the comic somewhere else instead of guys constantly teasing and throwing up spoilers in a TV show thread. Seems silly. Dudes cant help themselves but to constantly compare the two.
I like comparing the two actually, and why make a different thread for that? Sometimes the comics lead the show a bit
Spoiler:
Such as the governor and the prison
, and sometimes the show does whatever I wants. It's also interesting to discuss how they change character's personality as well.
Having this thread the way it is(show talk unspoilered, comic talk spoilered), let's us keep all the discussion in one thread instead of spreading it out between two. This is basically "The Walking Dead Thread".
So was it just me who found this episode really really depressing - three of us watched it this afternoon and whilst its always been grim it just seemed to say "give up - lifes better that way" and kinda turned me off watching more - I'll give it a few more episodes but I'd rather it did not turn into "The Road"....
I'm pretty sure that was by design. Kinda the "run out of fight" scenario. It was dark and dramatic for sure, actually makes Beth's sudden death seem cheapened somehow.
Breotan wrote: Given the dense pre-zombie population of the eastern seaboard (and one now assumes the post-zombie population as well), why the hell are they going north? There should be roughly 100 million zombies between them and the Canadian border.
Because they figured Washington, being the seat of Federal government with large concentrations of troops, federal facilities and federal emergency services and resources; would have held out the longest. Therefore it should have more resources, weapons, and survivors than the average town or city.
Spoiler:
Which the comics show to be true. When they arrive in Washington, there are at least four significant walled settlements with sizeable populations comparable to The Prison (show version - in the comics it was just Rick and friends, the Woodbury survivors did not join them).
As Eugene says, Washington is their best shot.
Yeah, I thought that was fairly obvious?
It might not be the best idea, or the smartest idea, but that's what they're thinking!
It'll take a while, but if the show follows the comics, Eugene will become a VERY important member of the group. He was a douche for lying and manipulating everybody, but he is right about one thing. He IS the smartest member of the group. He's exactly the sort of guy you need when...
Spoiler:
you're trying to rebuild civilisation.
You want to build a windmill? Ask Eugene.
You want to study the behaviour of walkers, so you can develop the best tactics for fighting them safely, or how to lure MASSIVE herds away from settlments? Ask Eugene.
You want to plan a trade network and a network of safe secure roads linking settlements? Ask Eugene.
By the end of season 6, everybody will love Eugene.
It'll take a while, but if the show follows the comics, Eugene will become a VERY important member of the group. He was a douche for lying and manipulating everybody, but he is right about one thing. He IS the smartest member of the group. He's exactly the sort of guy you need when...
Spoiler:
you're trying to rebuild civilisation.
You want to build a windmill? Ask Eugene.
You want to study the behaviour of walkers, so you can develop the best tactics for fighting them safely, or how to lure MASSIVE herds away from settlments? Ask Eugene.
You want to plan a trade network and a network of safe secure roads linking settlements? Ask Eugene.
By the end of season 6, everybody will love Eugene.
Whilst risking the wrath of non comic readers - i'll just say Andrea - comparing tv show with comics is not always safe - there is very little thats the same between the two - Andrea is perhaps one of the best loved comic characters and not so much in the show.
back on the Show - I also got a bit confused by where they are now - I thought they got turned back from Washington by massed hordes of the dead and had to back track to Atlanta? So the supposed safe place was nearer to Washington than they got before Eugene had his reverlation? Somewhere in Virginia?
I love the, "We're starving" with thousands of cicadas buzzing in the background. They just about fly into your hands around here. (yes, water would still be a problem)
I actually thought this episode was good, not great. There were real high points, but other points felt much more like filler than anything last week. I guess it probably made the zombie pr0n, endless survival horror on the road fans happy. *shrug*
I like how the writers are continuing to ask whether Rick and company have been out there too long. They got gifted all that water at a moment of extreme need, but were too paranoid to drink it. Um. Eugene made a pretty good decision, actually. They were just about done...so have one person test it. And of the group, he's the least valuable member *RIGHT NOW* other than Judith. They got bailed out by the rain, but I think there's room to question whether they're truly making good decisions right now.
Along those lines...from previews, it doesn't appear that things will go well with Aaron AT ALL. And it does underline the journey they've been on. Aaron would have been welcomed far more warmly by the group even 2 seasons ago.
gorgon wrote: I actually thought this episode was good, not great. There were real high points, but other points felt much more like filler than anything last week. I guess it probably made the zombie pr0n, endless survival horror on the road fans happy. *shrug*
I like how the writers are continuing to ask whether Rick and company have been out there too long. They got gifted all that water at a moment of extreme need, but were too paranoid to drink it. Um. Eugene made a pretty good decision, actually. They were just about done...so have one person test it. And of the group, he's the least valuable member *RIGHT NOW* other than Judith. They got bailed out by the rain, but I think there's room to question whether they're truly making good decisions right now.
Along those lines...from previews, it doesn't appear that things will go well with Aaron AT ALL. And it does underline the journey they've been on. Aaron would have been welcomed far more warmly by the group even 2 seasons ago.
A friend and I watched it last night and ….it wasn't great in our opinion - she did come up with the idea that the warning at the start and every advert break be changed to "Warning strong and obvious metaphors from the beginning and throughout”.
It was again pretty depressing stuff – highlighting that many of those that have survived are far less interesting to me that those the writers killed off.
Daryl and Carol was good, nice to see Beth actually remembered by people, it was not badly done but I need a bit more to keep me watching I think.
I guess it’s a whole episode where the walking jinx didn’t get someone killed so that’s a bonus….
I find it humorous that not everyone agrees on what a filler episode is.
To me I'm glad they're reinforcing the hardships of an apocalypse- things had gotten too cozy during the hospital episodes. Practical things like water, food, and shelter will even kill the people who are good at zombie smashing. The show has glossed over the simple things like that before.
Sinful Hero wrote: I find it humorous that not everyone agrees on what a filler episode is.
To me I'm glad they're reinforcing the hardships of an apocalypse- things had gotten too cozy during the hospital episodes. Practical things like water, food, and shelter will even kill the people who are good at zombie smashing. The show has glossed over the simple things like that before.
Believe it or not, all that kind of goes without saying or belaying the point. The show has illustrated that plenty, the survivors are always foraging. Heck, there's been cannibals with a whole story arc!
Frankly they've killed off most of the good characters at this point. Wacking Beth and now Tyreese I'm way more blah about watching. Only watched the last episode because the Wife wanted to.
They need to pick a story arc and finish the series.
Frankly they've killed off most of the good characters at this point. Wacking Beth and now Tyreese I'm way more blah about watching. Only watched the last episode because the Wife wanted to.
They need to pick a story arc and finish the series.
Just can't disagree with your assessment. Last episode seemed like a show to put commercials in.
