What rumor exactly said that Ghost Arks will get these rules?
It would be strange for them being the sole vehicle without Living Metal..but then again, I wouldn't trust the same game design team that thought of giving a high-cost model random powers further than you can see.
Well to be honest, I wouldn't use C'tan on AV14 stuff anyways. A lot of those powers would be better directed at masses of light/heavy infantry and light/medium armoured vehicles.
What I don't understand is why the C'tan powers have to be random on target selection and it isn't that the shards simply draw 2-3 cards at the start of the game and those are the powers the C'tan will use for the duration of the game.
Voodoo_Chile wrote: What I don't understand is why the C'tan powers have to be random on target selection and it isn't that the shards simply draw 2-3 cards at the start of the game and those are the powers the C'tan will use for the duration of the game.
Nilok wrote: That's going a little overboard with the mathhammer.
I actually made a mistake: It's 11%, the 23 was the chance on a penetrate.
IWND and the other HP recovery won't matter unless it takes a HP, so you need to factor a hit and a glance or pen to see how well the rule will actually do. By assuming that it won't take the glance or pen in the first place is almost the same as saying it isn't needed. If a dedicated anti-tank unit is shooting at a Ghost Ark, unless it glances, it will at least get a +1 to the chart, this is compounded further with AP.
I think the HP recovery rules are a little wasted on a Ghost Ark unless it takes mostly glances or it regains it's Quantum Shielding at full HP and doesn't immediately explode.
What rumor exactly said that Ghost Arks will get these rules?
I know, it was more in a reaction to the guy that acted as if Melta always blows them up.
The Ghost Ark will lose Hullpoints, that is a guarantee.
Getting a few back HP's is a bonus, a small one but still a bonus.
Living Metal gives the 6+; but we have a few ways to get IWND.
angelofvengeance wrote: Well to be honest, I wouldn't use C'tan on AV14 stuff anyways. A lot of those powers would be better directed at masses of light/heavy infantry and light/medium armoured vehicles.
Right, but what Necron army needed MORE help against light infantry? It's MCs and heavy walkers that Nevrons struggle with, and these powers are too unreliable to deal with either. Then again, drop pods are popular now, so maybe the additional MEQ murdering might be good. Certainly I think the Nightbringer is the better option - gaze of death brutalises things with LD8 or so. I still think they're too flimsy to see play though.
angelofvengeance wrote: I'm glad they fixed the Death Ray on the Doom Scythe. While interesting, the 1mm line was a bit annoying to do in a game.
Sure, if by 'fixed' you mean 'neutered'.
Unless it got a point drop to go along with it this is a serious nerf on a model that wasn't really all that great in the first place...
angelofvengeance wrote: I honestly don't get people being upset about C'tan. All of those powers are wonderful!
People are upset because, save for AV10-11 vehicles and low-medium toughness MCs with crappy armor saves, no matter what target you're shooting at you've got a 1/3 or worse chance of rolling up an all but useless power for the task.
Targeting light infantry? Roll 5 or 6 and you'll kill maybe one model, up to 3 if roll 6 and are otherwise very lucky.
Targeting MEQ? Roll 1 and you're golden, anything else and you're looking at around 1-3 unsaved wounds unless you get very lucky with the dice.
Targeting TEQ? Don't expect more than 1-2 wounds to stick no matter what you pick.
Targeting AV12? Roll 3 and you'd be lucky to make a more than a glance or two, roll 2 and even a glance is a long shot.
Targeting AV13? Results 2 and 3 are now right out, result 4 has a less than 50% chance of glancing even if all three blasts land on the vehicle.
Targeting AV14? Don't bother with any result other than 5 or 6.
Targeting multi-wound models with T4 and Sv4+ or worse? 1, 3, 5 or 6 will wreck its day something fierce, 4 might get a couple of wounds in, 2 will at best get 1.
Targeting multi-wound models with T4 and Sv3+? It's your lucky day! Roll 1, 5 or 6 for a decent shot at ID, rolling 3 could get you 2 unsaved wounds, otherwise don't expect more than 1 wound (if that).
Targeting multi-wound models with T5-6 and Sv3+? Any result other than 5 will net you somewhere between 0 and 2 wounds on average.
Targeting multi-wound models with T7 or higher and Sv3+? Rolling 5 remains the same, other results get that much worse.
Targeting multi-wound models with T4 and Sv2+? Rolling 5 or 6 have a good shot at ID, rolling 1 may get ID but doesn't get through the armor save, rolling 4 averages at around 1 unsaved wound, anything else and you're out of luck.
Targeting multi-wound models with T5 or higher and Sv2+? Rolling 5 is still the same, rolling 6 gets you a decent shot at a single wound and an long shot chance at lucking out with 3 (don't bet on it), anything else and you may as well not bother.
So the only things that it's really reliable against are AV10-11 vehicles or T3 Sv4+ (or worse) multi-wound models, and it does passably well against T4 Sv4+ multi-wound models. Why the hell would Codex: Necrons of all armies pay premium price for THAT?
C'tan shooting is looking to be so unreliable that you shouldn't take one unless you think it would be worth the points investment without factoring in these powers. If you think an MC with a C'tan statline, Fleshbane and the ability to inflict 3d6-Ld AP2 wounds at a unit within 12" is worth the 240pt investment of taking the Nightbringer Shard then the shooting powers are just gravy, if you don't then they shouldn't be the thing to change your mind about using one.
I posted this on warseer and seeing the discussion going on here, thought I share my thoughts with you:
I am still ruminating about that random c'tan powers for it really hurts my stomach - even though I want to be unaffected by it and I said earlier that this powers are all better then the non-random ones before (except for swarm of spirit dust). So sorry to put this in a rumors thread so yeah only feelings and thoughts in this one, no new rumors but old ones if you do not want to read such you can skip
Several other posters made me think about this more: why such a bland game mechanic, why disappoint so many players, why no empathy for us? I imagine so many others sitting there with the new codex being disappointed where they should not be it would be easy to make the codex balanced and fun!: changing the tesseract vault like that, taking away the only last big C'Tan..come on! It seems so stubborn and then this WD texts wich are so soulless and nearly provocative: as if we would love randomization, as they say...
Then thinking about GW mention that they love big MC's stomping the battlefield ... man, they are in their fifties or fourties I guess, is that believable?, to some degree but then seeing how the shards are so lackluster (assuming the rumors are valid) in comparison to wraithknights, riptides and the gray knight one...and for balancing: it would be easy to errata the statline of the riptide to a 3+/4++
Back to the random c'an powers: why not split the random chart in two subfields from which you the have to roll?, or as others said pick three cards at the start of the game...?
One idea that fits all this as an answer would be that long ago I heard a rumor, that GW wants warhammer 40K to be the kid version, the more comical version and 30K the grown up version - that would be absolute **** I do not want to go back in the timeline and I do not dig the 30K aesthetics at all not to mention my love for necrons that even all the dumbed down ideas and design flaws of the ward codex couldn't eliminate!
So the bottom line seems to be a really disconnected leading team inside GW, that just do not care, or are getting a little senile or simply old or wanting younger players in - I told some of this to my GF and she really isn't into 40K or wargaming and she said :"Do they want to disgust it's own customers away?" this were here inate feelings without knowing anything that is going on for years...:/
So sorry again for this in a rumors thread, thought you might share my feelings a little :/ and we never know maybe the codex will be different from the rumors.
C'tan thing sucks, tesla and phase shifter/ccb got rightfully nerfed, rumour has it mss got nerfed, but everything else got better or are equivalent.
Oh, the cheesy transcendent c'tan got nerfed. Oh well.
Did the wraith invuln get nerfed with the overlords? T5 is still probably better.
Overall, most of what I am seeing is good for necrons. No reason to drown yourself in your tears over some admittedly dumb things. 7th has seen more random, some toning down/balancing, and more interesting play.
Crazyterran wrote: C'tan thing sucks, tesla and phase shifter/ccb got rightfully nerfed, rumour has it mss got nerfed, but everything else got better or are equivalent.
Oh, the cheesy transcendent c'tan got nerfed. Oh well.
Did the wraith invuln get nerfed with the overlords? T5 is still probably better.
Overall, most of what I am seeing is good for necrons. No reason to drown yourself in your tears over some admittedly dumb things. 7th has seen more random, some toning down/balancing, and more interesting play.
Yo dude, i am not drowning in tears, i really love the balancing and as an oldcron player i like most of the changes - but as others said nerfing the T-C'tan and doing what they supposedly did is something different man shall i take your baneblade and make it a Rhino?
Bye anyway
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not to forget making the tesseract vault random: NOW THAT IS ******** don't you think?
Crazyterran wrote: C'tan thing sucks, tesla and phase shifter/ccb got rightfully nerfed, rumour has it mss got nerfed, but everything else got better or are equivalent.
Oh, the cheesy transcendent c'tan got nerfed. Oh well.
Did the wraith invuln get nerfed with the overlords? T5 is still probably better.
Overall, most of what I am seeing is good for necrons. No reason to drown yourself in your tears over some admittedly dumb things. 7th has seen more random, some toning down/balancing, and more interesting play.
Yo dude, i am not drowning in tears, i really love the balancing an as an oldcron player i like most of the changes - but as others said nerfing the T-C'tan and doing what they supposedly did is something different man shall i take your baneblade and make it a Rhino?
Bye anyway
If it gets a price drop, like the new t-c'tan did, then it is not all bad. The baneblade isn't even close to being considered competitive, anyways. The c'tan was one of the primary reasons that lords of war got banned in tournaments, and those tournaments that selectively banned lords of war still banned it.
The smaller c'tans were bad last edition, too, so... Meh?
baneblade was a bad example let us say warhound titan that is his power level anyway...and the T-C'tan with the new destroyer weapon rules and players not taking the same power twice isn't OP and he also dies quite easily in an apoc environment.
I still think that there was some C'tan mobbing going around within the tourney scene, just because frontline gaming led the way with pointing out how Op the T-C'tan was: I think they were wrong.
And a price reduction isn't calming if it is then overpriced and with random shooting attacks. I still hope the apoc variant will be made viable per faq. I am just a fan of the C'Tan man
Ffyllotek wrote: I've been told by gw I need to pre order for Saturday.
So it's not on general sale Saturday? Was hoping to get into town and pick up off shelves.
Maybe they are expecting to be sold out or have everything preordered (they can only hope).
Or more likely, they are only getting one or two books/want to get your money before you read it.
I like all the quick reference stuff Plus it's all there in the cloud so I don't have to fill shelves with books. And I get to harvest all the nice artwork for backgrounds on my tablet and pc. If you're on anything other than an iPad, you get shafted quality wise.
angelofvengeance wrote: I like all the quick reference stuff Plus it's all there in the cloud so I don't have to fill shelves with books. And I get to harvest all the nice artwork for backgrounds on my tablet and pc
angelofvengeance wrote: I like all the quick reference stuff Plus it's all there in the cloud so I don't have to fill shelves with books. And I get to harvest all the nice artwork for backgrounds on my tablet and pc
Thanks for the info. I'm still in the "scratching my name in the dirt with a stick" phase, and was interested in possibly getting the Iyanden book on a pad.
angelofvengeance wrote: I like all the quick reference stuff Plus it's all there in the cloud so I don't have to fill shelves with books. And I get to harvest all the nice artwork for backgrounds on my tablet and pc.
If you're on anything other than an iPad, you get shafted quality wise.
Just a little question from a non I-User:
When it is in the cloud, what is the legal situation, is it yours or just lent, if you buy it once, can you download it again, is it downloaded to your harddisk as a pdf ro so? Because I smell some strange development in digital ownership and clouds in general?
angelofvengeance wrote: I like all the quick reference stuff Plus it's all there in the cloud so I don't have to fill shelves with books. And I get to harvest all the nice artwork for backgrounds on my tablet and pc
Thanks for the info. I'm still in the "scratching my name in the dirt with a stick" phase, and was interested in possibly getting the Iyanden book on a pad.
angelofvengeance wrote: I like all the quick reference stuff Plus it's all there in the cloud so I don't have to fill shelves with books. And I get to harvest all the nice artwork for backgrounds on my tablet and pc. If you're on anything other than an iPad, you get shafted quality wise.
Just a little question from a non I-User:
When it is in the cloud, what is the legal situation, is it yours or just lent, if you buy it once, can you download it again, is it downloaded to your harddisk as a pdf ro so? Because I smell some strange development in digital ownership and clouds in general?
It is yours and you can put it on any device that you have authorised on your account. If you buy it once, thats it. No re-purchasing. It just stays in the cloud. The format is .ibooks(super fancy edition or .epub if from the iBook store. The fancy version only works on iPads. I think it works in .mobi though if you buy the digital version from Black Library (clarification needed there). If bought from Black Library you can put it on whichever device takes your fancy. No authorised crap but there is a noticeable difference in quality between the enhanced iBooks version and eBook version.
angelofvengeance wrote: I like all the quick reference stuff Plus it's all there in the cloud so I don't have to fill shelves with books. And I get to harvest all the nice artwork for backgrounds on my tablet and pc.
If you're on anything other than an iPad, you get shafted quality wise.
Just a little question from a non I-User:
When it is in the cloud, what is the legal situation, is it yours or just lent, if you buy it once, can you download it again, is it downloaded to your harddisk as a pdf ro so? Because I smell some strange development in digital ownership and clouds in general?
It is yours and you can put it on any device that you have authorised on your account. If you buy it once, thats it. No re-purchasing. It just stays in the cloud. The format is .ibooks(super fancy edition or .epub if from the iBook store. The fancy version only works on iPads. I think it works in .mobi though if you buy the digital version from Black Library (clarification needed there). If bought from Black Library you can put it on whichever device takes your fancy. No authorised crap but there is a noticeable difference in quality between the iBooks version and eBook version.
Nah its ePUB or the ibook format, mobi isnt supported...
baneblade was a bad example let us say warhound titan that is his power level anyway...and the T-C'tan with the new destroyer weapon rules and players not taking the same power twice isn't OP and he also dies quite easily in an apoc environment.
I still think that there was some C'tan mobbing going around within the tourney scene, just because frontline gaming led the way with pointing out how Op the T-C'tan was: I think they were wrong.
And a price reduction isn't calming if it is then overpriced and with random shooting attacks. I still hope the apoc variant will be made viable per faq. I am just a fan of the C'Tan man
As long as it is apocalypse only, I don't care then. Go ahead and do whatever you want in apocalypse.
The warhound Titan took a nerf when they nerfed destroyer weapons, as its best options for weapons were (and still are) turbo lasers (no, the c'tan didn't get hurt as bad by the d nerf, because hellstorm still lets you disregard cover). It's also not available on eBay for 50-60 bucks if you get a deal. I'd expect to see one warhound in one imperial/chaos players army at a tournament, if any. Transcendent c'tans got around like you wouldn't believe. It's still a cheese bucket unit, however, and would expect the warhound to be as such.
I also can't hide a warhound behind a bastion. It also dies horribly to a pod filled with Meltaguns, where a current transcendent c'tan would laugh it off. I'm even willing to argue that the c'tan beats out the warhound in terms of capability (before next Saturday, of course).
You are still get a s8 t7 monstrous creature, the only non-psychic power user to get (multiple!) d-weapons on a non super heavy/lord of war. And hey, maybe with the mephrit dynasty, you'll be able to bump it back to t8, at least. You know, the toughness level greater than a great unclean one, the manifest will of a god known for it s resiliency and toughness.
baneblade was a bad example let us say warhound titan that is his power level anyway...and the T-C'tan with the new destroyer weapon rules and players not taking the same power twice isn't OP and he also dies quite easily in an apoc environment.
I still think that there was some C'tan mobbing going around within the tourney scene, just because frontline gaming led the way with pointing out how Op the T-C'tan was: I think they were wrong.
And a price reduction isn't calming if it is then overpriced and with random shooting attacks. I still hope the apoc variant will be made viable per faq. I am just a fan of the C'Tan man
As long as it is apocalypse only, I don't care then. Go ahead and do whatever you want in apocalypse.
The warhound Titan took a nerf when they nerfed destroyer weapons, as its best options for weapons were (and still are) turbo lasers (no, the c'tan didn't get hurt as bad by the d nerf, because hellstorm still lets you disregard cover). It's also not available on eBay for 50-60 bucks if you get a deal. I'd expect to see one warhound in one imperial/chaos players army at a tournament, if any. Transcendent c'tans got around like you wouldn't believe. It's still a cheese bucket unit, however, and would expect the warhound to be as such.
I also can't hide a warhound behind a bastion. It also dies horribly to a pod filled with Meltaguns, where a current transcendent c'tan would laugh it off. I'm even willing to argue that the c'tan beats out the warhound in terms of capability (before next Saturday, of course).
You are still get a s8 t7 monstrous creature, the only non-psychic power user to get (multiple!) d-weapons on a non super heavy/lord of war. And hey, maybe with the mephrit dynasty, you'll be able to bump it back to t8, at least. You know, the toughness level greater than a great unclean one, the manifest will of a god known for it s resiliency and toughness.
To be honest they've completely removed the Transcendent C'tan from the game and replaced it with what is effectively the Shard of the Burning One. Which is fine if they'd been a little more honest about it instead of introducing a new unit with the old name.
angelofvengeance wrote: I like all the quick reference stuff Plus it's all there in the cloud so I don't have to fill shelves with books. And I get to harvest all the nice artwork for backgrounds on my tablet and pc.
If you're on anything other than an iPad, you get shafted quality wise.
Just a little question from a non I-User:
When it is in the cloud, what is the legal situation, is it yours or just lent, if you buy it once, can you download it again, is it downloaded to your harddisk as a pdf ro so? Because I smell some strange development in digital ownership and clouds in general?
It is yours and you can put it on any device that you have authorised on your account. If you buy it once, thats it. No re-purchasing. It just stays in the cloud. The format is .ibooks(super fancy edition or .epub if from the iBook store. The fancy version only works on iPads. I think it works in .mobi though if you buy the digital version from Black Library (clarification needed there). If bought from Black Library you can put it on whichever device takes your fancy. No authorised crap but there is a noticeable difference in quality between the iBooks version and eBook version.
Nah its ePUB or the ibook format, mobi isnt supported...
If you use a halfway decent app to manage your eBooks (I use the freely available Calibre, which is available for Windows, OS X and Linux... i.e. everything), it will automatically convert from ePub to Mobi if your device requires it. If an eBook is available in ePub format, it is effectively also available in Mobi format as they are trivial to convert between.
I have an iPad and a Nook. I tend to purchase the eBook versions since they take up significantly less space than the iBooks versions do. If you're looking to carry ALL the rules around with you, the eBooks are better.
angelofvengeance wrote: If you're on anything other than an iPad, you get shafted quality wise.
Oh definitely! you're better off buying the physical book and scanning it for your tablet/phone than buying the ebook...
I'd say the exact opposite: The ebooks are just the same content on a plain white background, whilst the "Enhanced" editions are full of scrolling bits and pop ups and mandatory viewing in portrait format that serve exactly no purpose beyond making it harder to redistribute.
angelofvengeance wrote: I like all the quick reference stuff Plus it's all there in the cloud so I don't have to fill shelves with books. And I get to harvest all the nice artwork for backgrounds on my tablet and pc.
If you're on anything other than an iPad, you get shafted quality wise.
Just a little question from a non I-User:
When it is in the cloud, what is the legal situation, is it yours or just lent, if you buy it once, can you download it again, is it downloaded to your harddisk as a pdf ro so? Because I smell some strange development in digital ownership and clouds in general?
It is yours and you can put it on any device that you have authorised on your account. If you buy it once, thats it. No re-purchasing. It just stays in the cloud. The format is .ibooks(super fancy edition or .epub if from the iBook store. The fancy version only works on iPads. I think it works in .mobi though if you buy the digital version from Black Library (clarification needed there). If bought from Black Library you can put it on whichever device takes your fancy. No authorised crap but there is a noticeable difference in quality between the iBooks version and eBook version.
Nah its ePUB or the ibook format, mobi isnt supported...
If you use a halfway decent app to manage your eBooks (I use the freely available Calibre, which is available for Windows, OS X and Linux... i.e. everything), it will automatically convert from ePub to Mobi if your device requires it. If an eBook is available in ePub format, it is effectively also available in Mobi format as they are trivial to convert between.
I have an iPad and a Nook. I tend to purchase the eBook versions since they take up significantly less space than the iBooks versions do. If you're looking to carry ALL the rules around with you, the eBooks are better.
Ohh storage wise sure they are better, but i just convert everything to ePUB and stick it on google drive and have the stuff that's for me, usually codex, dataslates, etc on my ipad, and if i need anything else just open the ebooks from google drive rather than having everything on the device.. not that ive anywhere near filled my 64GB ipad yet
angelofvengeance wrote: If you're on anything other than an iPad, you get shafted quality wise.
Oh definitely! you're better off buying the physical book and scanning it for your tablet/phone than buying the ebook...
I'd say the exact opposite: The ebooks are just the same content on a plain white background, whilst the "Enhanced" editions are full of scrolling bits and pop ups and mandatory viewing in portrait format that serve exactly no purpose beyond making it harder to redistribute.
But...but... those extra bits are cool the links allow quick navigation and the built-in glossary is very handy, we can all have our opinions to be sure, i just feel the enhanced versions are better, all the ebooks look terrible to me...
Ouze wrote: So the only new model is a single unipose character with no modelling options for $28, is that correct?
Correct.
We might get a lead bleacher spray!
If we're good...
I mean, I get that we didn't really need much, but a plastic C'tan kit would've been cool, plastic Flayed Ones, resculpted warriors, maybe a Royal Court kit (or a clampack Cryptek at least) would've been appreciated. It doesn't feel like a codex release should.
Ouze wrote: So the only new model is a single unipose character with no modelling options for $28, is that correct?
Correct.
We might get a lead bleacher spray!
It took me a few minutes of reading this over and over to realize it was a typo and you meant "belcher." Lol. I kept trying to figure out what bleacher spray was.
Ouze wrote: So the only new model is a single unipose character with no modelling options for $28, is that correct?
Correct.
We might get a lead bleacher spray!
...
I think that might excite me more than new models, honestly. Takes the long winded part of the painting out of the way (relentlessly silvering everything) and gets me on to the fun part.
Everything I'm reading sounds good but the change to Living metal is brutal to our vehicle survival. I'm hoping the vehicles affected come with a point drop.
The rumours of tesla strength drop is also worrying (far more so than loss of the tesla rule itself.)
chnmmr wrote: Everything I'm reading sounds good but the change to Living metal is brutal to our vehicle survival. I'm hoping the vehicles affected come with a point drop.
Why is it a hit to our vehicle survival? Maybe I was playing it wrong but I assumed you just ignored the effects of Crew Shaken or Crew Stunned (On a successful roll) but not the hull point loss for the penetrating hit.
This change gives us the ability to restore HP loss which is surely a big boon.
Unless I've misread, the change no longer gives us that AV13 buffer on our low armour vehicles like the barge and transport. This makes it easier to knock off enough hull points that we don't get to do our d6 roll at the end of the turn to regain a hitpoint. This -is- a brutal change.
chnmmr wrote: Unless I've misread, the change no longer gives us that AV13 buffer on our low armour vehicles like the barge and transport. This makes it easier to knock off enough hull points that we don't get to do our d6 roll at the end of the turn to regain a hitpoint. This -is- a brutal change.
chnmmr wrote: Unless I've misread, the change no longer gives us that AV13 buffer on our low armour vehicles like the barge and transport. This makes it easier to knock off enough hull points that we don't get to do our d6 roll at the end of the turn to regain a hitpoint. This -is- a brutal change.
That was the "Quantum Shielding" special rule and so far I haven't seen that mentioned nor have I seen any mention of the AV values for the vehicles beyond the Obelisk.
Living Metal just provided ignore "Crew Shaken" on a 2+ and "Crew Stunned" on a 4+.
So Living Metal is improved and we need to wait and see if Quantum Shielding is still a thing.
chnmmr wrote: Unless I've misread, the change no longer gives us that AV13 buffer on our low armour vehicles like the barge and transport. This makes it easier to knock off enough hull points that we don't get to do our d6 roll at the end of the turn to regain a hitpoint. This -is- a brutal change.
The AV13 buffer was a different rule. It did not come from Living Metal.
I love the Living Metal change: The self-repair systems now actually do anything on a vehicle.
If you take into account the most high end Canoptek drones (Tomb Stalkers and Sentry Pylons) have IWND, we're now much closer thematically to everything having self repair.
angelofvengeance wrote: I like all the quick reference stuff Plus it's all there in the cloud so I don't have to fill shelves with books. And I get to harvest all the nice artwork for backgrounds on my tablet and pc.
If you're on anything other than an iPad, you get shafted quality wise.
Just a little question from a non I-User:
When it is in the cloud, what is the legal situation, is it yours or just lent, if you buy it once, can you download it again, is it downloaded to your harddisk as a pdf ro so? Because I smell some strange development in digital ownership and clouds in general?
It is yours and you can put it on any device that you have authorised on your account. If you buy it once, thats it. No re-purchasing. It just stays in the cloud. The format is .ibooks(super fancy edition or .epub if from the iBook store. The fancy version only works on iPads. I think it works in .mobi though if you buy the digital version from Black Library (clarification needed there). If bought from Black Library you can put it on whichever device takes your fancy. No authorised crap but there is a noticeable difference in quality between the enhanced iBooks version and eBook version.
I've bought both versions at various times. The iTunes version is superior in almost every way, with pop-up menus and windows when you click on a weapon or rule. Navigation is also much easier. The only issue with it is the size of the actual file, and switching between books can take some time on an older iPad. For the longest time I was using a 16gb iPad 3 (around three years old), and switching from my Codex to the main rulebook to check a rule could take upwards of ten seconds. Also, with only 16gb of storage, each 1.5gb codex took up a considerable percentage of total space.
The Black Library versions are much smaller (around 80-100mb), and can be used on a variety of devices. I usually import them into the kindle app on my phone (Galaxy Note 3), or again, the kindle app on my iPad. They're not too bad to navigate with the new ones, as GW has only one entry for each unit now, instead of one entry with lore and rules, and another with options and point costs. With that consolidation, I don't mind using the Black Library versions.
angelofvengeance wrote: If you're on anything other than an iPad, you get shafted quality wise.
Oh definitely! you're better off buying the physical book and scanning it for your tablet/phone than buying the ebook...
I'd say the exact opposite: The ebooks are just the same content on a plain white background, whilst the "Enhanced" editions are full of scrolling bits and pop ups and mandatory viewing in portrait format that serve exactly no purpose beyond making it harder to redistribute.
Having used both, the iTunes versions are far better than the ebooks available from the Black Library. i don't like that they're so huge, but even with a slightly higher price, I'll always pick the iTunes version.
Someone on Tyranid Hive apparently has the codex and is answering questions. Just thought I'd share some:
Necron Special Rules:
Renanimation Protocols - When a model with this rule suffers an unsaved wound, it can make a special reanimation roll to avoid being wounded. This is not a saving throw and can be used against attacks that state "no saves of any kind are allowed". Reanimation protocols rolls may even be made against hits that cause Instant Death, but cannot be used against hits from Destroyer weapons, or an attack that states the model is removed from play.
Roll a D6 each time the model suffers an unsaved wound, subtracting 1 if the wound caused Instant Death.On a 5+, discount the unsaved wound. Modifiers to this dice roll can never be improved to better than 4+.
If a model has both reanimation and FNP, you can choose to use one or the other but not both.
Emphasis mine as I wasn't sure if that clause had been mentioned before. I could be wrong, but only saving ID wounds on a 6+ seems like a pretty big blow to RP - especially for our characters.
Canoptek Scarabs are Fast Attack, 60 points.
WS2 BS2 S3 T3 W3 I2 A4 Ld10 Sv6+
May include up to six bases at 20 pts per base
Entropic Strike: To wound rolls of 6 wound automatically and cause glancing hits if they wouldn't penetrate
Fearless, Swarm
Lychguard are 125 points for a squad of 5.
WS 4 BS 4 S 5 T 5 W 1 I 2 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 3+
Warscythe, Reanimation protocols. May select a night scythe as a dedicated trasnport.
The entire unit may exchange their warscythes for hyperphase swords and dispersion shields.
Dispersion Shield
A mdel equipped with a diispersion shield has a 3+ invulnerable save, but can never claim the two weapons bonus in the fight sub phase.
Mindshackle Scarabs
When fighting in a challenge, a model with the scarabs has the Fear rule. Fear tests taken as a result of the scarabs are taken on a 3D6
Eh, Fear on 3d6 is fairly decent, but of course with how easy Fearless and ATSKNF are to get, it's not fantastic. Still, against anything that's not a Space Marine army it's fairly useful, even LD10 fails Fear on 3d6 more than half the time.
Argh, those Scarabs don't look compatible with Charnel Scarabs at all.
I can't exactly say "No no, it's cool, I can use the cheaper 5th edition scarabs because this forge world book says so" and expect to be taken seriously.
I've bought both versions at various times. The iTunes version is superior in almost every way, with pop-up menus and windows when you click on a weapon or rule. Navigation is also much easier. The only issue with it is the size of the actual file, and switching between books can take some time on an older iPad. For the longest time I was using a 16gb iPad 3 (around three years old), and switching from my Codex to the main rulebook to check a rule could take upwards of ten seconds. Also, with only 16gb of storage, each 1.5gb codex took up a considerable percentage of total space.
The Black Library versions are much smaller (around 80-100mb), and can be used on a variety of devices. I usually import them into the kindle app on my phone (Galaxy Note 3), or again, the kindle app on my iPad. They're not too bad to navigate with the new ones, as GW has only one entry for each unit now, instead of one entry with lore and rules, and another with options and point costs. With that consolidation, I don't mind using the Black Library versions.
Having used both, the iTunes versions are far better than the ebooks available from the Black Library. i don't like that they're so huge, but even with a slightly higher price, I'll always pick the iTunes version.
To GW's credit, they have vastly come down in size with this new format they've gone for. The new layout codexes are a 400/500MB download. 40k wise: Everything from Orks onwards basically.
Requizen wrote: Eh, Fear on 3d6 is fairly decent, but of course with how easy Fearless and ATSKNF are to get, it's not fantastic. Still, against anything that's not a Space Marine army it's fairly useful, even LD10 fails Fear on 3d6 more than half the time.
But that's the thing - so many things are either SMs or Fearless that it's just pointless.
ID messing with my reanimation will definitely make my main opponent happy. He was already fielding as much helfrost as he could, now I'm gonna start eating lascannons!
The person with the codex has also mentioned that the hullpoint regeneration only applies to Heavy and Super-Heavy vehicles.
Requizen wrote: Eh, Fear on 3d6 is fairly decent, but of course with how easy Fearless and ATSKNF are to get, it's not fantastic. Still, against anything that's not a Space Marine army it's fairly useful, even LD10 fails Fear on 3d6 more than half the time.
But that's the thing - so many things are either SMs or Fearless that it's just pointless.
Not really. There's maybe a dozen units with that rule.
Eeh... not true at all though. It depends on your meta, only one guy at our store even uses Space Marines, everyone else plays Xenos for the most part.
RivenSkull wrote: Entropic Strike now just removes a hull point on a 6 rather than lowering AV.
I'd point out that you now only need 3 6's to kill a tank instead of 10 4+'s. I'd also point out that it now works on super heavies. It's insanely better as a vehicle killer. And with less hoops to jump through.
Not to rub salt in the wound, but anyone who isn't playing Necrons is probably happy about this. While GW might have gone too far, MSS was in need of a nerf.
RivenSkull wrote: Yeah MSS just got flushed down the toilet. I wonder if we'll get anything that keeps our HQ's alive in CC.
Scarabs big nerf too.
RP getting -1 to ID sucks.
Entropic Strike now just removes a hull point on a 6 rather than lowering AV.
Not liking how things are turning out so far.
I guess if you only focus on the negatives. Things are getting cheaper pretty much all around. Heavy/Superheavy vehicles all have mini IWND. Flayed Ones are actually about usable now (4 attacks AP5 Shred is actually quite good, and new Reanimations means they are more survivable at I2). It doesn't look like we lost any of our Named Characters (many recent codices would be pissed at us for this). Deathray is different, but now is a hard anti-vehicle (S10 Lance yo). Dispersion Shields being Storm Shields is great, at 25 points makes Lychguard pretty fantastic assault units (especially if we can give them Ghost Ark, still alright without it).
Ouze wrote: So the only new model is a single unipose character with no modelling options for $28, is that correct?
Correct.
We might get a lead bleacher spray!
It took me a few minutes of reading this over and over to realize it was a typo and you meant "belcher." Lol. I kept trying to figure out what bleacher spray was.
Oh... And now I need to admit I thought it was bleacher... :(
Whipcoils give swiftstrike instead of reducing enemy initiative, which is only a slight nerf, but I'm more interested in that Whipcoils have a profile now.
Does that mean that taking coils will give an extra attack in assault?
RivenSkull wrote: Entropic Strike now just removes a hull point on a 6 rather than lowering AV.
I'd point out that you now only need 3 6's to kill a tank instead of 10 4+'s. I'd also point out that it now works on super heavies. It's insanely better as a vehicle killer. And with less hoops to jump through.
And allows you to force a few saves when tarpiting a monstrous creature of any strength.
I have to say that I really like the ID change to reanimation protocols, makes a lot more sense. It should be harder to pull yourself back together after being blasted to bits by a tank shot than just being shot by a gun. Even if I stick with the old codex I might have to add that rule in.
Drakmord wrote: Whipcoils give swiftstrike instead of reducing enemy initiative, which is only a slight nerf, but I'm more interested in that Whipcoils have a profile now.
Does that mean that taking coils will give an extra attack in assault?
Only if they let you take the pistol with it.
But otherwise, it's a buff for most cases: You can make 3 wraiths I5 for the price of making one enemy I1 in the prior edition, so you mostly only lose out against Slaanesh.
Drakmord wrote: Whipcoils give swiftstrike instead of reducing enemy initiative, which is only a slight nerf, but I'm more interested in that Whipcoils have a profile now.
Does that mean that taking coils will give an extra attack in assault?
Eh, that one I'll call an overall nerf though. Without Assault Grenades, Wraiths are down to I1 when charging through cover (which your opponent really should force you to do), even with Swiftstrike. Old whip coils would drag the opponent down to I1 as well, but now they're always going to go first. Also, if you cart around a Destroyer Lord with the Wraiths, it does nothing for him, which makes Wraith Star a bit less impressive.
As far as MSS... which of our characters will willingly be in a challenge? Won't we just be feeding crypteks to their CC beast?
Drakmord wrote:Whipcoils give swiftstrike instead of reducing enemy initiative, which is only a slight nerf, but I'm more interested in that Whipcoils have a profile now.
Does that mean that taking coils will give an extra attack in assault?
Jaceevoke wrote: I have to say that I really like the ID change to reanimation protocols, makes a lot more sense. It should be harder to pull yourself back together after being blasted to bits by a tank shot than just being shot by a gun. Even if I stick with the old codex I might have to add that rule in.
Don't forget the best thing!
Our Overlords have a chance to obtain EW from the Traits.
So with EW or against non-ID-attacks we have three rolls on RP instead of only one we had before.
Now remember that this also counts for our Lords, Crypteks and Destroyers that have two Wounds.
Hollismason wrote: I'm pretty sure also Wraiths ignore cover so they wouldn't be hitting on initiative 1.
With any luck, Wraithflight will be a bit more clearly worded.
Currently it says never slowed by terrain. You could take that two ways, never slowed in terms of movement, or never slowed both in movement and combat. And no this isn't an invitation to debate me over that I won't be playing any games between now and the new book.
Scarabs took a hit with their overall price increase and aren't quite as scary as they used to be against vehicles but can now hurt any MC in the game, which is nice.
Lychguards for 25 ppm is INSANE. Wonder how much the S&B upgrade costs?
Galorian wrote: Scarabs took a hit with their overall price increase and aren't quite as scary as they used to be against vehicles but can now hurt any MC in the game, which is nice.
Lychguards for 25 ppm is INSANE. Wonder how much the S&B upgrade costs?
All the special rules seem nerfed, but the point reductions and formation bonuses are looking good.
I feel the entropic rules change was a lateral move and did not warrant a 33% points increase on scarabs, but I'm willing to play a few games with them before I pass judgement.
Galorian wrote: Scarabs took a hit with their overall price increase and aren't quite as scary as they used to be against vehicles but can now hurt any MC in the game, which is nice.
Lychguards for 25 ppm is INSANE. Wonder how much the S&B upgrade costs?
+5 ppm.
30 points for 3++, AP3, and what is basically FNP++, I'm going to be using Lychguard. For a Assault Overlord/Lord/Character on foot, that's insanely good imo.
Nemesor Zandrekh: WS5 BS5, Adaptive Tactics – Must pick a new Warlord Trait at the beginning of every turn.
Vargard Obyron: WS5 BS5
Illuminor Szeras:
Orikan: Orikan once Empowered stays empowered
Anrakyr: WS5 BS5
Trazyn: WS5 BS5
Overlord: 80pts WS5 BS5
Destroyer Lord: WS5 BS5
Necron Lord: 2 Wounds
Cryptek: 2 Wounds
Elites:
Deathmarks:
Lychguard: 25 pts each. 3+ Invulnerable Save
Flayed Ones: 4 Attacks, Shred, AP5
Triarch Stalker: Targeting Relay – +1 BS to a single Necron unit within 12″ inches
Triarch Praetorians: 25 pts each, 2 Base Attacks, Rod of the Convnent 12″ range
C’Tan Shard Nightbringer: 240 pts, Eternal warrior, Fleshbane, Gaze of Death – 12″ AP2 Roll 3D6 and subtract the target’s Leadership; the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result.
C’Tan Shard Deceiver: Eternal warrior, Hit and run, Dread – All Enemy Units within 12″ Inches -2 LD. Grand Illusion – After Scout moves, but before Seize Initiative roll Redeploy D3 units within 12″and the C’Tan Shard Deceiver or put in reserves
Troops:
Warriors:
Immortals:
Fast Attack:
Night Scythe:
Ghost Ark:
Canoptek Wraiths: T5
Canoptek Scarabs:
Tomb Blades: 16 pts each
Destroyers: 2 Wounds
Heavy Support:
Doom Scythe: Death Ray – 24″ S10 AP1, Heavy 1, Blast, Lance
I'm kind of upset that nobody asked for Relics yet. That is something I care more about than whether something is 3 or 5 points.
vipoid wrote: With a 4++ save at best, and RP only on a 6+ against ID, I don't see our characters holding their own against many other characters or MCs.
Yeah, that is true. I'm extremely scared of all those S10-attacks I always seem to face with my T5-Lords.
Seriously, do you face Dante every single challenge? Because otherwise you either have a 2+ or you win by initiative.
Anyone remember the Ld score of the Riptide? Cause IIRC it wasn't all that high meaning it reaaaaaaly doesn't want to let the Nightbringer get anywhere near it.
Really wish we'd know by now what gear is available for Crypteks, this could make or break the Exterminatus C'tan formatio.
MSS nerf was completely expected. That said, Fear is one of the lamer rules in the game. Do lychguard with dispersal shields keep their warscythes, or do they just get power swords?
Jaceevoke wrote: I have to say that I really like the ID change to reanimation protocols, makes a lot more sense. It should be harder to pull yourself back together after being blasted to bits by a tank shot than just being shot by a gun. Even if I stick with the old codex I might have to add that rule in.
Don't forget the best thing!
Our Overlords have a chance to obtain EW from the Traits.
So with EW or against non-ID-attacks we have three rolls on RP instead of only one we had before.
Now remember that this also counts for our Lords, Crypteks and Destroyers that have two Wounds.
You do make a good point, our guys are going to be reassembling while they are still going, that is amazing to think about in terms of fluff; to see the enemy literally pulling itself back together while it lumbers towards you every blow you do being fixed and repaired before you can even do another.
Colpicklejar wrote: MSS nerf was completely expected. That said, Fear is one of the lamer rules in the game. Do lychguard with dispersal shields keep their warscythes, or do they just get power swords?
You know to be quite honest I killed about five or six Dreadknights before the Internet told me Dreadknights are meant to be scary to Necrons, and I'm still not really seeing it.
Except for one invisibility spam incident, I've killed all or nearly all Grey Knight units on the table with only the Stormravens reliably living through it, assuming they don't make the error of dropping to grab an objective when I only have a few units to assign target priority to.
WBB completely removed, RP now a glorified save, T4 models getting hugely shafted. MSS removed from the game, Necron characters now unable to win challenges again.
So in short, vehicle spam will still be the go-to Necron build.
Sigvatr wrote: WBB completely removed, RP now a glorified save, T4 models getting hugely shafted. MSS removed from the game, Necron characters now unable to win challenges again.
So in short, vehicle spam will still be the go-to Necron build.
We'll be Back isn't a rule in the current codex
RP was always a glorified save
T4 models are actually getting better/staying the same
MSS in it's current form was ridiculous and it isn't removed from the game, it's changed.
Necron Characters didn't win challenges. MSS won challenges when people hurt themselves.
1. Codex specifically states: "Snap Shots never cause additional hits as a result of this special rule".
2. Night Scythe is 130 points. They still have invasion beams.
3. Gauss auto wounds on a 6, and auto glances on a 6. No double strength.
4. Tomb Blades have twin linked gauss blasters. These can be exchanged with twin linked Tesla Carbines for free, or Particle Beamers for 2 points / model
5. Anrakyr is 160 points.
6. Triarch Praetorians are 140 points for a squad of 5. Their Rod of Covenant has a 12" range.
7. The Doomsday Ark is Heavy Support (again, see my earlier post about Crons not using standard Force Org though). It still has t be stationary to fire.
8. Monolith: 200 points, 14 AV all around, BS4, 4HP. Four gauss flayer arcs, Particle Whip, Eternity Gate, Deep Strike, Living Metal.
I am not a Cron player, but I think the Obelisk is new? It's like a superheavy version of the Monolith. 300 points, 14AV all around, BS4, 4HP. Four Tesla Spheres, and all enemy flyer, skimmer, jetbike, and FMCs treat terrain within 18" of the Obelisk as dangerous terrain. Zooming flyers and FMCs must also take a dangerous terrain test. The Obelisk can be "powered down" and gain 3+ invuln, but cannot move or shoot. Deep striking obelisks are always powered up. Once powered up, it cannot power down again.
9. The Spyder can add a single Canoptek Scarab base to a scarab unit within 6", at the start of the movement phase, even if it raises it past the starting amount. Roll a D6 after that, and it takes a wound on a 1.
10. Cryptek:
65 points, HQ, Infantry (character)
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 Iw A1 Ld10 Sv.4+
Staff of Light, may take a chronometron (25 points), may take items from Technoarcana or Artefacts of the Aeons
Reanimation Protocols
Technomancer: This model and all models with the Reanimation Protocols rule in his unit receive +1 to Reanimation Protocol rolls (posted the rules for RP earlier in the thread)
I'm kind of surprised how they've changed LoW's in this book. Only Imotekh. Even the Obelisk is just a HS. Most definitely a response to people not necessarily wanting to play with LoW's in their games.They will surely sell some models now that these aren't LoW. Or not, now that the T C'tan isn't so busted.
All Crypteks being forced to effectively buy an old style Ressurection Orb is a painful nerf. Severely limits their use if you're primarily buying them for wargear. Also means an utterly worthless two Ressurection Orb tax for a Conclave of the Burning One.
Tempted to actually buy an Obelisk for those stats... Were it not for the Tesla nerf meaning it can't actually do it's job. Whee.
This is taken in place of your Overlord (he sits inside the thing) WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+
Catacomb Command Barge BS4, 11AV all around, HP3
Overlord has his usual stuff (staff of light, Reanimation, can buy extra wargear, etc.)
Catacomb Command Barge has a Gauss Cannon (can switch to Tesla Cannon), Quantum Shielding, and Living Metal.
Command Wave: All Necron friendlies within 12" re-roll failed morale, pinning, and fear tests. If the warlord in the barge has the Immortal Hubris trait (see earlier in thread), command wave range extends to 18".
Annihilation Barge - Heavy Support, 120 points
BS4, AV 11 all around, HP3
Gauss cannon (can switch to Tesla), Twin linked tesla destructor, Quantum shielding, Living Metal
My bad - the annihilation barge is in a formation I forgot to list. The Annihilation nexus, which has two Annihilation Barges and 1 Doomsday Ark.
Destroyers as Jet Pack Infantry... so does that mean they're only a 6" Move + 2d6" in the Assault Phase? I guess that makes them better at hit and run tactics... which is kind of a sidegrade than an upgrade.
W2 is an upgrade though, especially with taking RP against any wounds.
Still 40 points is expensive, dunno if a sidegrade + extra wound makes it better though.
Actually, that change would benefit Heavy Destroyers as you can shoot and then move behind cover. Nerfed RP though. Not sure why you would take regular Destroyers.
Goresaw wrote: 30 point increase on the anni barge... harsh but probably fair. The old price was criminally low
No, it's a disgrace to their balancing capability that they had this knee-jerk reaction because of SM-QQ'ing.
It was either the Snap-shotting or the price increase of 30.
Both is ridiculous.
RivenSkull wrote: Entropic Strike now just removes a hull point on a 6 rather than lowering AV.
I'd point out that you now only need 3 6's to kill a tank instead of 10 4+'s. I'd also point out that it now works on super heavies. It's insanely better as a vehicle killer. And with less hoops to jump through.
Yeah, it's more efficient, but mechanics wise it was a unique little rule that added to the synergy of the army.
Goresaw wrote: 30 point increase on the anni barge... harsh but probably fair. The old price was criminally low
No, it's a disgrace to their balancing capability that they had this knee-jerk reaction because of SM-QQ'ing.
It was either the Snap-shotting or the price increase of 30.
Both is ridiculous.
Realizing its not just Space marine players QQing about it.
From the sound of things they're the ones who are getting the regenerating hull points from Living Metal (since rumor was that it only applies to Heavy and Super Heavy vehicles), so that's a buff.
Requizen wrote: Destroyers as Jet Pack Infantry... so does that mean they're only a 6" Move + 2d6" in the Assault Phase? I guess that makes them better at hit and run tactics... which is kind of a sidegrade than an upgrade.
W2 is an upgrade though, especially with taking RP against any wounds.
Still 40 points is expensive, dunno if a sidegrade + extra wound makes it better though.
Even a unit of one is significantly more durable if you combine improved RP with two wounds... So their primary problem is solved now.
Especially since Heavies are lighter and with the new formation you could potentially get some other benefits.
Goresaw wrote: 30 point increase on the anni barge... harsh but probably fair. The old price was criminally low
No, it's a disgrace to their balancing capability that they had this knee-jerk reaction because of SM-QQ'ing.
It was either the Snap-shotting or the price increase of 30.
Both is ridiculous.
Realizing its not just Space marine players QQing about it.
Too hard, better just post angry knee-jerk complaints about Marines on the internet.
The Gauss improvement has not changed anything, since all Gauss weapons would have automatically wounded a CM on a 6, except for Gargantuan Creatures.
Oh, and Gauss Rule doesn't even work on Snap Firing now
KurtAngle2 wrote: The Gauss improvement has not changed anything, since all Gauss weapons would have automatically wounded a CM on a 6, except for Gargantuan Creatures.
Oh, and Gauss Rule doesn't even work on Snap Firing now
No, Gauss Flayers could not hurt T8 MCs such as wraithlords.
Also, source on the other bit? I'm pretty sure it's tesla that no longer works on snap shots.
Hulksmash wrote: A dreadnought with AV12, 4 TL autocannon shots that don't generate more hits and isn't a skimmer costs 120pts. Seems like a fair price for the barge.
Yeah, it's maybe marginally on the underpowered side but isn't unplayable and those things were far, far, far too overused before.
The big issue is that Tesla Immortals might be kinda pointless now. No overwatch buff, no improvised anti air against light flyers... What's the point?
Hulksmash wrote: A dreadnought with AV12, 4 TL autocannon shots that don't generate more hits and isn't a skimmer costs 120pts. Seems like a fair price for the barge.
A dreadnought is not open topped and it always has AV12.
Galorian wrote: Scarabs took a hit with their overall price increase and aren't quite as scary as they used to be against vehicles but can now hurt any MC in the game, which is nice.
Lychguards for 25 ppm is INSANE. Wonder how much the S&B upgrade costs?
Galorian wrote: Scarabs took a hit with their overall price increase and aren't quite as scary as they used to be against vehicles but can now hurt any MC in the game, which is nice.
Lychguards for 25 ppm is INSANE. Wonder how much the S&B upgrade costs?
I read that to be 33 ppm with shield
Really? The tyranid guy said 5pts for the upgrade.
High Power 72" S10 AP1, Primary Weapon 1, Large Blast, Divert Power (must be stationary)
I don't see anything about Tomblades being able to increase armour save or jink.
Technoarcana is as follows:
Chronometron - The model and his unit have 5+ invuln. against shooting attacks
Dispersion shield - Model has 3+ invuln., cannot claim Two Weapon bonus
Fabricator Claw Array - During shooting phase, instead of shooting, a model with the claw can repair a single friendly vehicle in base contact. D6 roll: on a 4+, restore a hull point or repair weapon destroyed or immobilised result, effective immediately.
Gloom Prism - Model and all units within 12" have Adamantium Will.
Mindshackle Scarabs 10pts - During a challenge, model with the scarabs causes Fear. Ld. tests against the model are taken on 3D6.
Nebuloscope - model ignores cover when shooting
Phase Shifter 25pts - 4+ invuln. save, but only for the model and not any chariot it rides on
Phylactery 15pts - It Will Not Die, for both the model and any chariot it rides on
Resurrection Orb 25pts- Once per game, after an unsuccessful reanimation roll has been made for the model (or another model in the same unit), you can re-roll it and any other failed reanimation rolls (for the model and its unit) until end of phase.
Shadowloom - +1 cover save (6+ in the open)
Shield Vanes - 3+ armour save
Artefacts of the Aeons
Gauntlet of Conflagrator 30pts- Template, S7 AP2, Assault 1, One Use Only
Nightmare Shroud 35pts- 2+ armour save and fear. Once per game can force enemy unit within 18" to take a morale check (Fearless and Know No Fear units are immune)
Orb of Eternity 40pts- See the Resurrection Orb above, except this also gives +1 to the reanimation rolls
Solar Staff 15pts- 12", S5 AP3, Assault 3, Blind, Solar Pulse
Solar Pulse: Once per game, at the start of any turn, cancel night fighting for the turn. When activated, enemy units can only fire snap shots at the model and its unit until the staff bearer's next turn.
Veil of Darkness 25pts- Deep strike. Once per game, can remove itself and its unit from the table and immediately deep strike somewhere else (even if locked in assault)
Warlord Trait is Implacable Conqueror (see earlier post in thread)
Counter-attack, Furious Charge, IC, Reanimation
Mind in the Machine: At start of shooting phase, choose an enemy vehicle within 12". On a 4+, randomly select one of that vehicle's weapons (no choosing one use weapons that have already been fired off though, or destroyed weapons) and shoot the weapon at another enemy unit. Use the vehicle's BS, unless it is stunned or shaken (then snap shots only). Tyranids laugh at this.
Pyrrhian Eternals - At start of game, before deployment, nominate one friendly unit of immortals. They have Furious charge and counter-attack.
Galorian wrote: Scarabs took a hit with their overall price increase and aren't quite as scary as they used to be against vehicles but can now hurt any MC in the game, which is nice.
Lychguards for 25 ppm is INSANE. Wonder how much the S&B upgrade costs?
I read that to be 33 ppm with shield
Really? The tyranid guy said 5pts for the upgrade.
Galorian wrote: Scarabs took a hit with their overall price increase and aren't quite as scary as they used to be against vehicles but can now hurt any MC in the game, which is nice.
Lychguards for 25 ppm is INSANE. Wonder how much the S&B upgrade costs?
I read that to be 33 ppm with shield
Really? The tyranid guy said 5pts for the upgrade.
and also 140 for 5, which isn't 25 ppm
That's for praetorians.
Lychguard are 125 for 5, no upgrades.
vipoid wrote: There's a depressing amount of 'one use only' in those artefacts.
Also, 2+ save and Fear for 35pts... what are the designers smoking? O_o
Also, who on Earth priced the Resurrection Orb?
Someone who played Dawn of War, probably.
"Oh hey, the res orb in DoW is an activated item that ressurrects dudes. Lets translate that into the tabletop, instead of leaving it as a passive effect!"
Desubot wrote: Ahhahahahahahahaah all the special rule culling. i love it
Nebuloscope: nice they kinda needed a way to actually ignore cover.
Wasn't it a Tomb Blade upgrade last codex?
What are tomb blades /trollface
honestly dont know. il go take a look but i always get complaints that besides templates they dont have any ignore cover. though i am mistaking it as a relic wargear i think.
Wowowow, I leave work and all of a sudden a massive information dump happens. Surprised how accurate the rumours were. Let's see:
-Lychguard 25 pts/model, +5 for sword + shield Ehhhh... That's pretty bad in honesty. 25 inc shield would be good, 30 is very steep for a non-shooty, footslogging unit. Bleh. Not the units fault really, just a flaw with assault in 40k generally.
-Whip coils now +3I To be honest, that's probably better. Whip coils only applied in base to base, so tarpits still regularly struck first. More of a sidegrade than a nerf or buff, and much simpler which I appreciate.
-Scarabs 20 pts/model. Uh, wut. Entropic touch is now 100% identical to gauss? That can't be right, surely? Well, assuming one of them is wrong, meh, but overall this is cool. 20 pts is too much IMO, but I think this technically works out as a buff?
-Doom Scythe does have blast AKA Doom Scythe is dead.
-Flayed ones do get shred Anyone who used the IA12 list knows this is surprisingly decent. That's a lot of attacks and really quite cheap. Not good, but fun and maybe usable.
-Reanimation nerfed to 6+ with ID Sucks. Fluffy, but sucks. Never mind, we wouldn;t get it at all with FNP I guess.
-Night Scythes 130 points Mmmm, yeah, that's okay. I can deal with that.
-Gauss auto wounds on a 6, and auto glances on a 6. No double strength. As mentioned above, this is literally identical to entropic strike now? Odd. On the other hand, getting auto wounding back is really nice for fluffy armies. Doesn't affect too much though,
-Tomb Blades have twin linked gauss blasters. These can be exchanged with twin linked Tesla Carbines for free, or Particle Beamers for 2 points / model And someone told me 2 point upgrades were weird :p Anyway, that points drop is nice but I suspect gauss still wins overall.
-Anrakyr is 160 points. What? He went UP in points? Did he gain something insane then?
-Triarch Praetorians are 140 points for a squad of 5. Their Rod of Covenant has a 12" range. Meet out not-quite-plasma assault marines everyone. Costly, but... maybe worth that now? I mean, you basically hit like an MC and fire 5 S5 AP2 shots a turn base. That's not great, but it;s nowhere close to bad. In fact, I'm not even convinced that it's not great either to be honest. Will need to see how they play.
-Doomsday Ark Is still bad, as expected.
-Spyder Same as old, but no points given and doesn't look like it's 1-3 any more either.
-Cryptek Aurghgrh, that's a sharp point increase. Not sure if I'll be taking them - depends on how good that wargear is. Better be flipping good.
-CCB 135 point inc Overlord ...
...
Whoa. GW, what are you doing? You took something good and made it BETTER? That's a full 55 pt decrease! Crazy.
-Destroyers I'm in love with these guys. Jet pack Lascannons are real. Okay, they're 50 points but... jet pack PE lascannon. On a T5 W2 model. It's like a Crisis suit with a big gun and more armour (okay, for a lot of points but come on).
Eyjio wrote: Wowowow, I leave work and all of a sudden a massive information dump happens. Surprised how accurate the rumours were. Let's see:
-Lychguard 25 pts/model, +5 for sword + shield Ehhhh... That's pretty bad in honesty. 25 inc shield would be good, 30 is very steep for a non-shooty, footslogging unit. Bleh. Not the units fault really, just a flaw with assault in 40k generally.
point 1) every THSS terminator would like to have a word with you id love it if we got a points reduction like that.
Edit: Whip coils i think was just to stop that silly wombo combo with times arrow. a lot of it seems to be various simplification like changing chronometron to a save instead of rerolling a dice and stuff.
Edit: Also CCB cant get a 3+ invul anymore too sooooooo yeah.
Eyjio wrote: Wowowow, I leave work and all of a sudden a massive information dump happens. Surprised how accurate the rumours were. Let's see:
-Lychguard 25 pts/model, +5 for sword + shield Ehhhh... That's pretty bad in honesty. 25 inc shield would be good, 30 is very steep for a non-shooty, footslogging unit. Bleh. Not the units fault really, just a flaw with assault in 40k generally.
point 1) every THSS terminator would like to have a word with you id love it if we got a points reduction like that.
Edit: Whip coils i think was just to stop that silly wombo combo with times arrow. a lot of it seems to be various simplification like changing chronometron to a save instead of rerolling a dice and stuff.
Okay you can be 30 points, but you have to power swords instead of Thunderhammers
Have to say very tempted to play with Necrons. That army box they have (temporarily out of stock :() looks actually somewhat decent for only $185, but I fear like everything else you'll pay out the wazoo to bulk it out properly.
Lychguard and Praetorians still junk? Said army box says it has 5 Lychguard but that seems to be a kit that can make 5 Praetorians or Lychguard.
Chronometron Aww, I was hoping this wouldn't change. Still, that's an interesting way to buff foot armies. 20 man warrior blobs with 4+/5++ and better FNP is no laughing matter.
D shield Expected nerf honestly, rule basically never came into play.
Fab claws Same as before, still bad.
Gloom Prism Worse, but not bad still.
MSS Bad. Expected.
Nebuloscope Very good, depending on what can take it and where.
Phase shifter I'll take a 4++ instead of a 3++ if it's down 20 points honestly.
Phylactery Probably still won't take it.
Res orb It dead. It soooo dead.
Other stuff needs a whole write up, so will miss that for now. Nightmare shroud is way too expensive, but if it's our only 2+ save... :(
How is the gloom prism worse? It's 3" bubble was useless, unless you want to get nuked. But yeah, RIP Res Orb. There goes an iconic bit of Necron gear.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: How is the gloom prism worse? It's 3" bubble was useless, unless you want to get nuked. But yeah, RIP Res Orb. There goes an iconic bit of Necron gear.
How convenient that the new plastic Necron Lord has one...
Eyjio wrote: Wowowow, I leave work and all of a sudden a massive information dump happens. Surprised how accurate the rumours were. Let's see:
-Lychguard 25 pts/model, +5 for sword + shield Ehhhh... That's pretty bad in honesty. 25 inc shield would be good, 30 is very steep for a non-shooty, footslogging unit. Bleh. Not the units fault really, just a flaw with assault in 40k generally.
point 1) every THSS terminator would like to have a word with you id love it if we got a points reduction like that.
Edit: Whip coils i think was just to stop that silly wombo combo with times arrow. a lot of it seems to be various simplification like changing chronometron to a save instead of rerolling a dice and stuff.
Edit: Also CCB cant get a 3+ invul anymore too sooooooo yeah.
You can be 30 points if we can get 2+ saves, thinderhammers and assault vehicle transports too, deal?
In seriousness, I can't even remember when I took TH/SS terminators and expected them to do more than look cool. Love the models, but assault really, really needs fixing.
-Anrakyr is 160 points. What? He went UP in points? Did he gain something insane then?
He actually went down and got some upgrades Though MitM is somewhat nerfed, which is ridiculous since we now have to randomize the weapon we 'steal'. So first I take a lot of effort to get him close, then I take over a Stormbolter. Great!
Desubot wrote: Also CCB cant get a 3+ invul anymore too sooooooo yeah.
True.. But in return they went down a gigantic amount of points. Gone are the days where CCB's are 300 points
One more thing I noticed:
Models with Powers of the C'Tan can use them as a ranged weapon in the shooting phase.
Would this mean they could fire two Powers as they are MC's?
Eyjio wrote: You can be 30 points if we can get 2+ saves, thinderhammers and assault vehicle transports too, deal?
Hmm, it does seem like Ghost Arks can now carry our Lychguard That makes me happy.
The Ghost Ark has no rule saying that only warriors can ride in it. It is just a transport.
Immortals are 17 points each, warriors are 13 points each.
Infantry can ride in transports. Unless the Ghost Ark says that they can't, you can take a ghost ark and embark lychguard at deployment. If Ghost Arks are a Fast Attack choice, then you don't even need to worry about embarking lychguard at the beginning of the first turn.
Scarabs price bump hurt a bit... but entropic strike basically mirroring Gauss is interesting. Both Entropic Strike and Gauss got a bump. I wish the double strength was in, however.
-Anrakyr is 160 points.
What? He went UP in points? Did he gain something insane then?
He actually went down and got some upgrades Though MitM is somewhat nerfed, which is ridiculous since we now have to randomize the weapon we 'steal'.
So first I take a lot of effort to get him close, then I take over a Stormbolter. Great!
Desubot wrote: Also CCB cant get a 3+ invul anymore too sooooooo yeah.
True.. But in return they went down a gigantic amount of points.
Gone are the days where CCB's are 300 points
One more thing I noticed:
Models with Powers of the C'Tan can use them as a ranged weapon in the shooting phase.
Would this mean they could fire two Powers as they are MC's?
Eyjio wrote: You can be 30 points if we can get 2+ saves, thinderhammers and assault vehicle transports too, deal?
Hmm, it does seem like Ghost Arks can now carry our Lychguard That makes me happy.
I thought he was 130 before? Ah well, shows how much I used that guy. Still probably won't to be frank.
CCBs are still insane now. QS=AV13 all around mitiagte a weakness even. No 3++ on the barge, but presumably the rider can still use a 4++ for less points. I am worried that Warscythes are going to be 20 pts though...
And yeah, I missed that. Ghost Arks as a general transport is quite a significant buff to lots of units. Hell, even 10 flayed ones are funny in one - infiltrate forwards that AV13 block which you don't want to come near (if they're in fast attack anyway)!
We really need full GA rules actually, he didn't talk about the repair thing at all.
...Little annoyed I only have a Tesseract Ark and no Ghost or Doomsday ones now. Think I can proxy if I convert up a length extending lump of machinery on a flight stand just to show the length difference?
So now I spend 35 points for a 2+ and 25 more for a 4++. So my leaders, the best they can ever get is a 2+/4++. I would rather spend the 40 and get my old phase shifter back.
So on wraiths what is better, T5 4++ or T4 3++? I prefer the latter myself, but....
changemod wrote:...Little annoyed I only have a Tesseract Ark and no Ghost or Doomsday ones now. Think I can proxy if I convert up a length extending lump of machinery on a flight stand just to show the length difference?
Haha, this is my dream. I used to run AV13 wall, so I've got 4 flipping GAs.
knightpredator wrote:So now I spend 35 points for a 2+ and 25 more for a 4++. So my leaders, the best they can ever get is a 2+/4++. I would rather spend the 40 and get my old phase shifter back.
So on wraiths what is better, T5 4++ or T4 3++? I prefer the latter myself, but....
Yeah, Overlords were smacked a bit. We'll see what the other special characters are like. T5 4++ vs T4 3++ is statistically very similar until S7, at which point the 3++ is better. It's a nerf, but its not a bad one.
BlaxicanX wrote:I wonder if quantum shielding will work in melee.
All the rules are simpler now. I see no reason they'd add such a proviso - it's not like the Necrons don't pay for that AV13.
BlaxicanX wrote: I wonder if quantum shielding will work in melee.
Unless it says that it doesn't....
So rather than the CCB being an 80-something point upgrade, it is 120. That's like getting the overlord for 30 points.
I'm definitely getting another CCB/Annihilation Barge kit.
Wraiths have a 3+ armour save (which they never use) in the old codex. They might keep it in the new one, which would matter if they still have phase shifters and not some other special rule that gives them an invulnerable save.
Rez protocols I would call an absolute buff. Yes you get 6+ if hit with ID, but for the vast majority of cases it's way better. Breaking a unit will no longer prevent it. Destroying a unit will no longer prevent it. Res orb feels like a nerf, but I imagine it's still going to be played all the time. Especially the relic one. Or barring that, a cheap cryptek for the +1
A re-rollable 4+ fnp, even for a single turn, is absurd.
Oh god, after removing one iconic rule from Necrons (WBB / RP), GW also decided to remove the second iconic thing aka Regeneration Orbs. Warriors get another big nerf with 6+ RP vs. S8, so that's another hit for Silver Tide. The Monolith remains being bad and I already see Ghost Arks with LG hopping out of it being a viable strategy all of a sudden.
Monolith not getting its "Teleport to reroll WBB" ability back is just stupid, especially after the nerf to RP.
Turns out the decision to let Codex: Necrons be written by someone who never had anything to do with Necrons before was a bad idea.
changemod wrote:...Little annoyed I only have a Tesseract Ark and no Ghost or Doomsday ones now. Think I can proxy if I convert up a length extending lump of machinery on a flight stand just to show the length difference?
Haha, this is my dream. I used to run AV13 wall, so I've got 4 flipping GAs
Never got a Ghost Ark, because frankly they're ugly as sin and I never got around to coming up with a decent conversion. If I do buy one now it's definitely at least being a Doomsday proxy if nothing else.
Colpicklejar wrote: Rez protocols I would call an absolute buff. Yes you get 6+ if hit with ID, but for the vast majority of cases it's way better. Breaking a unit will no longer prevent it. Destroying a unit will no longer prevent it. Res orb feels like a nerf, but I imagine it's still going to be played all the time. Especially the relic one. Or barring that, a cheap cryptek for the +1
A re-rollable 4+ fnp, even for a single turn, is absurd.
Especially when you combine that with Lychguard....S&B would have 3+/3++ T5 model with 4+ RP that can be rerolled in a crucial turn. Heck, Warscythe Lychgard with a cryptek can have a 3+/5++ with 4+ RP rerollable. Throw in a tooled up OL, and you've got a nice beatstick unit that is durable enough to actually make it to combat and strong enough to do some major damage.
This sounds bloody amazing thus far. Most units seem to have a place on the tabletop now, as opposed to 6 or 7. I'm still itching to hear if those formations in the Decurion have extra rules.
Jaceevoke wrote: I have to say that I really like the ID change to reanimation protocols, makes a lot more sense. It should be harder to pull yourself back together after being blasted to bits by a tank shot than just being shot by a gun. Even if I stick with the old codex I might have to add that rule in.
Don't forget the best thing!
Our Overlords have a chance to obtain EW from the Traits.
So with EW or against non-ID-attacks we have three rolls on RP instead of only one we had before.
Now remember that this also counts for our Lords, Crypteks and Destroyers that have two Wounds.
EW only works against removing all the wounds, so you'd still take the RP roll on a 6+ before modifiers against a wound that inflicts ID. You also cannot take FNP against an ID wound, even if you have EW, for that matter.
MonumentOfRibs wrote: This sounds bloody amazing thus far. Most units seem to have a place on the tabletop now, as opposed to 6 or 7. I'm still itching to hear if those formations in the Decurion have extra rules.
Yeah thats definitely something to talk about. how internally balanced the dex will be.
Nothing truly sounds trash tier yet (i will not be comparing it to the bloody wave snake)
I'm very happy with what I have been reading so far. Gauss being able to auto wound on a 6 again, is awesome. Five more points per models for scarabs kinda sucks but entropic strike now being able to hurt super heavies and T7+ models is great.
Ghost arks being able to carry more than just warriors and ICs will help out so many units now. Will definetly be putting some flayed ones and lychguard in two of my GAs. Although it would be nice to know the point value.
I would definitely consider RP to be much better. I don't have to worry about being wiped or failing moral and not getting RPs anymore. Yes res orbs are worse and only 5 points cheaper but crypteks can give +1 to the roll. I just hope the rumor for taking an overlord lets you take more crypteks or lords, just have to wait for a reply from jackedup later.
I'm excited to use heavy destroyers again, and destroyers are more survivable but unless gauss cannons are better not sure if I would use the regular destroyers.
Seriously. Oh no, my Warriors are slightly less durable against Meltaguns, Lascannons, Battlecannons, and Power Fists. But better against everything else on the table. What a tragedy.
I have no issue for the way Res Orbs work now. A 1-turn reroll on a 5+ (potentially 4+ with Cryptek) is better than a 4+ all the time that might not even come up if the unit runs away or is completely destroyed. Having rerolls in a crucial turn is as good (if not better in some situations) than a static buff that might not even be utilized.
Aside from that, Tomb Blades are fast units that can ignore cover and can have AP4 guns. Goodbye, camping Tau. Goodbye, Scouts. Goodbye, IG teams behind an Aegis Line.
Lychguards in Ghost Arks are good now.
I don't know why people aren't more happy with the Doomsday cannon. It's nothing but buffs - +1S to both profiles, AP3 (better from AP4) on moving profile (so now it's a Battle Cannon instead of a Warrior Killer), and 5 points cheaper. Considering ABarges got the nerfbat and Monoliths don't look too changed, they're probably pretty high up on the chart for best HS slot.
Wow - so many one use only items. They are generally terrible! Reminds me of the last edition of Lizardmen for Warhammer Fantasy when half their magic items were one use only - the master of magic had the most unreliable one shot items.
Now the army with the greatest technology just watches it fizzle after one blast. Did we run out of batteries?
Now excuse me while I go forge a narrative about the Necron Dynasty obsessed with carrying useless glass decorative orbs into battle.
HeavyMetalMan wrote: I'm excited to use heavy destroyers again, and destroyers are more survivable but unless gauss cannons are better not sure if I would use the regular destroyers.
I've never understood the hate for gauss cannons. Mid-strength, multi-shot ranged AP3 is murder on MEQ, which is is pretty prevelent, and its effective against most MCs. As a marine player, I normally have to make Destroyers a priority target because they often tear army to shreds. Giving them 2 wounds is a downer for me, but given their cost, I have to say it was needed.
HeavyMetalMan wrote: I'm excited to use heavy destroyers again, and destroyers are more survivable but unless gauss cannons are better not sure if I would use the regular destroyers.
I've never understood the hate for gauss cannons. Mid-strength, multi-shot ranged AP3 is murder on MEQ, which is is pretty prevelent, and its effective against most MCs. As a marine player, I normally have to make Destroyers a priority target because they often tear army to shreds. Giving them 2 wounds is a downer for me, but given their cost, I have to say it was needed.
Oh, it's a good weapon. It's just the unit using it wasn't great as they were fragile + expensive.
Now that they have 2 wounds, they are somewhat usable.
Jaceevoke wrote: I have to say that I really like the ID change to reanimation protocols, makes a lot more sense. It should be harder to pull yourself back together after being blasted to bits by a tank shot than just being shot by a gun. Even if I stick with the old codex I might have to add that rule in.
Don't forget the best thing!
Our Overlords have a chance to obtain EW from the Traits.
So with EW or against non-ID-attacks we have three rolls on RP instead of only one we had before.
Now remember that this also counts for our Lords, Crypteks and Destroyers that have two Wounds.
EW only works against removing all the wounds, so you'd still take the RP roll on a 6+ before modifiers against a wound that inflicts ID. You also cannot take FNP against an ID wound, even if you have EW, for that matter.
It's still a 6+ FNP against Instant Death weapons. This is a slight nerf against shooting ID (who has those? Maybe like 5 units in the whole game?) but better against Assault ID, since in Assault they would just kill you and then place themselves so your EW marker couldn't get back up.
Considering how often Necrons lose combat, RP is purely a buff to any Assaut situations. The only con is a narrow field of shooting situations.
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: Wow - so many one use only items. They are generally terrible! Reminds me of the last edition of Lizardmen for Warhammer Fantasy when half their magic items were one use only - the master of magic had the most unreliable one shot items.
Now the army with the greatest technology just watches it fizzle after one blast. Did we run out of batteries?
Now excuse me while I go forge a narrative about the Necron Dynasty obsessed with carrying useless glass decorative orbs into battle.
Worse, it's not what Necron Lords were created for. The only purpose of Necron Lords is to serve as a catalyst, or an energy source, for the rest of the army, keeping it together...not now.
Confused about the CCB. Good at melee, mobile, but...has to stay close to the rest of the army that wants to stay out of melee?
The rules to entropic strike are just stupid. Voidblades and Scarabs are useless now.
No available 2+ save for our Overlord is also really stupid... It seems that only Marines are allowed to have that.
The loss of Cryptek flavor and gear sucks. That was one of the best things about the Necron Codex.
Besides all that, it sounds like a lot of bad units got great buffs. 25 point Lychguard and 28 Point Triarch Praetorians are pretty awesome.
Flayed ones are good.
If our Vehicles are 13 all around with QS, that's a huge buff as well. Tesseract Ark will need to be FAQ'd though.
T5 4++ Wraiths are actually a buff.
Tomb Blades sound pretty awesome at this point.
Abarges got a justified price increase. They are still good.
Night Scythes got a justified price increase. They're still good.
Not sure what they were thinking about the Doomscythe... I never remember it causing a crazy amount of Havoc in any games I played it. Just a product of cleaning up rules it looks like.
The RP change while not as flavorfull, and overall buff for sure. Major buff to Multi-wound characters.
The Phylactery is actually usable now. I expect to see that on Every Overlord.
HeavyMetalMan wrote: I'm excited to use heavy destroyers again, and destroyers are more survivable but unless gauss cannons are better not sure if I would use the regular destroyers.
I've never understood the hate for gauss cannons. Mid-strength, multi-shot ranged AP3 is murder on MEQ, which is is pretty prevelent, and its effective against most MCs. As a marine player, I normally have to make Destroyers a priority target because they often tear army to shreds. Giving them 2 wounds is a downer for me, but given their cost, I have to say it was needed.
Oh, it's a good weapon. It's just the unit using it wasn't great as they were fragile + expensive.
Now that they have 2 wounds, they are somewhat usable.
Their mobility took a hit though :/
I think the mobility trade off is fine if you're using the Jet Pack to JSJ. Destroyers are basically our Crisis Suit equivalents now, but with different weapons and built in FNP. That's not bad. Especially on Heavy Destroyers, where they can JSJ on a Lascannon's range.
Sigvatr wrote: Oh god, after removing one iconic rule from Necrons (WBB / RP), GW also decided to remove the second iconic thing aka Regeneration Orbs. Warriors get another big nerf with 6+ RP vs. S8, so that's another hit for Silver Tide. The Monolith remains being bad and I already see Ghost Arks with LG hopping out of it being a viable strategy all of a sudden.
Monolith not getting its "Teleport to reroll WBB" ability back is just stupid, especially after the nerf to RP.
Turns out the decision to let Codex: Necrons be written by someone who never had anything to do with Necrons before was a bad idea.
Better keep cover because according to you the sky is falling, lol
would love to see someone play a C'Tan Energizer bunny, with the gauss weapons all mounted with batteries, hilarious!
Requizen wrote: It's still a 6+ FNP against Instant Death weapons. This is a slight nerf against shooting ID (who has those? Maybe like 5 units in the whole game?) but better against Assault ID, since in Assault they would just kill you and then place themselves so your EW marker couldn't get back up.
Considering how often Necrons lose combat, RP is purely a buff to any Assaut situations. The only con is a narrow field of shooting situations.
Keep in mind double strength to toughness also causes ID. So S8+ for the rank and file and S10 for all the T5 stuff.
Redemption wrote: EW only works against removing all the wounds, so you'd still take the RP roll on a 6+ before modifiers against a wound that inflicts ID. You also cannot take FNP against an ID wound, even if you have EW, for that matter.
That is my point.
With a S10AP1 weapon he would first need to wound me three times, then get through my 4++ invulnerable and then through three 6's.
It's to point out that the new RP is awesome with multiple wounds and in the new Codex we seem to have quite some units with multiple wounds.
I also think that people are looking too much at the ID-part.
How often are players shooting S8 at your Warriors and Immortals?
And how often do you think people will fire S10 at our T5-units (which we have quite a lot of)?
I don't know why people aren't more happy with the Doomsday cannon. It's nothing but buffs - +1S to both profiles, AP3 (better from AP4) on moving profile (so now it's a Battle Cannon instead of a Warrior Killer), and 5 points cheaper. Considering ABarges got the nerfbat and Monoliths don't look too changed, they're probably pretty high up on the chart for best HS slot.
The guy on tyranid hive also said it had the Primary Weapon rule when stationary, which is a pretty significant buff. I always thought it should've been ordanance, and this is the same except a bit better.
Being expensive and (more or less) stationary might still make it a less than optimal choice for most lists, but it's definitely a lot better than it used to be.
MLKTH wrote: The guy on tyranid hive also said it had the Primary Weapon rule when stationary, which is a pretty significant buff. I always thought it should've been ordanance, and this is the same except a bit better.
Being expensive and (more or less) stationary might still make it a less than optimal choice for most lists, but it's definitely a lot better than it used to be.
Interesting, that could also mean the Monolith now has Primary Weapon.
That could be quite a useful buff if the Portal stays the same.
Requizen wrote: It's still a 6+ FNP against Instant Death weapons. This is a slight nerf against shooting ID (who has those? Maybe like 5 units in the whole game?) but better against Assault ID, since in Assault they would just kill you and then place themselves so your EW marker couldn't get back up.
Considering how often Necrons lose combat, RP is purely a buff to any Assaut situations. The only con is a narrow field of shooting situations.
Keep in mind double strength to toughness also causes ID. So S8+ for the rank and file and S10 for all the T5 stuff.
Sure, but like I said, that's still a narrow range of weapons. Meltaguns, Lascannons, Battlecannons, and I guess Krak Missiles? (I dunno, none of my armies have Missile Launchers) are S8 or better. That's not a huge list, most guns are in the S4-S6 range, even Autocannons are only S7.
To double out 5, that's only really big guns (Railguns for Tau, some one shot guns) or certain Power Weapons in Assault. Still not a huge list.
I'm ok with being weaker to some special/heavy/vehicle weapons while being better everywhere else.
I tired to predict what will be competitive with the codex, and came up with that:
Overall:
-Flyer spam is gone
-AV 13 Wall still works
-scarab farm dead
-infantry blobs significantly better (?)
-decurion good for spamming, but otherwise CAD is better because of Objective Secured.
HQ:
-Catacomb Command Barge for a close combat HQ (likely still worse than old Necron combat HQs because of the nerfs to defensive upgrades and MSS)
-Crypteks for supporting infantry blobs
-Zandrekh possibly good
-the rest: not really attractive
Troops:
-warriors in 20-strong footslogging blobs supported by Crypteks and possibly Ghost Arks (GAs don't change, right?)
-5-man warrior squads for saving the points, possibly in Scythes in a memento of the good old flying spam
-Gauss immortals in Scythes
Elites:
-Deathmarks against MCs -Lychguards, maxed out in Ghost Arks, that is, if point costs are enough to overshadow the overall suckiness of close combat
-Praetorians, maxed out to be a pretty good marine-like unit
-the rest not competitive, with Flayed Ones getting pretty close to being competitive.
Fast Attack - the most crowded slot:
-Wraiths for close combat, as before they were good, and now they got better
-Tomb Blades, maybe one of the best bikes in the game now, probably with gauss or these sickly cheap particle beamers. Spammable.
-Night Scythes still doing well enough to take them as transports.
-Ghost arks good for Lychguards, Immortals, Warrior blobs.
-scarabs and destroyers not worth it
Heavy support:
-Annihilation barge still usable, but with the price increase probably less spammable
-Heavy destroyers for anti-armour spam unless you're going for 13 AV wall
-the rest not worth it
Late to the party, but were there any people who were surprised and amazed that a long standing top tier codex with a few ridicilously undercosted and/or overpowered things got toned down while the bad stuff got a buff?
I came looking for the "our codex is now plain" and "our codex now sucks" comments, I´m partially disappointed I didn´t find them. Yet atleast.
The comments on this page atleast are actually sensible. Anyways, liking the new Codex. Just as predicted, it is in line with the other codices published recently. Game is looking to get much better balancewise when the last few overpowered ones are fixed.
I don't know why people aren't more happy with the Doomsday cannon. It's nothing but buffs - +1S to both profiles, AP3 (better from AP4) on moving profile (so now it's a Battle Cannon instead of a Warrior Killer), and 5 points cheaper. Considering ABarges got the nerfbat and Monoliths don't look too changed, they're probably pretty high up on the chart for best HS slot.
The guy on tyranid hive also said it had the Primary Weapon rule when stationary, which is a pretty significant buff. I always thought it should've been ordanance, and this is the same except a bit better.
Being expensive and (more or less) stationary might still make it a less than optimal choice for most lists, but it's definitely a lot better than it used to be.
That's a solid buff actually. It might even make me reconsider my view - the primary weapon armour penetration is very nice. Still, it's still a huge downside that it can't move, although firing a blast krak missile could be worse.
Redemption wrote:
Requizen wrote: It's still a 6+ FNP against Instant Death weapons. This is a slight nerf against shooting ID (who has those? Maybe like 5 units in the whole game?) but better against Assault ID, since in Assault they would just kill you and then place themselves so your EW marker couldn't get back up.
Considering how often Necrons lose combat, RP is purely a buff to any Assaut situations. The only con is a narrow field of shooting situations.
Keep in mind double strength to toughness also causes ID. So S8+ for the rank and file and S10 for all the T5 stuff.
If people are firing at models with RP using S8+, and not vehicles, I'm calling that a win regardless.
I'm a little sad I can't spam Crypteks and have all the fancy guns anymore, but the toys they do have look great. Giving my Immortals 5++/4+++ against shooting? That's not bad.
HeavyMetalMan wrote: I'm excited to use heavy destroyers again, and destroyers are more survivable but unless gauss cannons are better not sure if I would use the regular destroyers.
I've never understood the hate for gauss cannons. Mid-strength, multi-shot ranged AP3 is murder on MEQ, which is is pretty prevelent, and its effective against most MCs. As a marine player, I normally have to make Destroyers a priority target because they often tear army to shreds. Giving them 2 wounds is a downer for me, but given their cost, I have to say it was needed.
I've never gone into a game without them. They always earn back way more than they cost and force my opponent to have to deal with them while the rest of my Necrons do their thing.
I have to say I'm quite tempted to look into it. Seems like if the Battleforce stays (not likely though) that plus the new boxed army and some extra could make a decent army, albeit without a lot of speed.
For just under $400 I could get:
Tomb Awakened army box: $180 (Built as two units of 5x Immortals, 1x Overlord, 1x Annihilation Barge, 3x Wraiths, 1x Tryarch Stalker, 5x Lychguard) Necron Battleforce (assuming it's not removed like the others): $115 (built as 20x Warriors, 5x Scarabs, 1x Doomsday Ark?, 5x Deathmarks) Necron Wraiths: $47 Annihilation Barge/Command Barge: $37.25
Now, without knowing anything about the new Codex, that seems on paper like a decent Necron army:
And that at least visually would be pretty cool, with an unflinching horde of killing machines marching in unison...
For the price that doesn't seem TOO unreasonable. Question is if it would be any good, or require a few hundred in supplementary things like the old Flying Bakery.
The Codex overall had a total point reduction, and units that were garbage before are really crazy good now.
Jump Shoot Jump Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers are incredibly good.
Yes, I and just going to spend 150 points on a squad that can reliably never get shot at unless you have a Barrage Weapon or something that's not LOS.
Oh and they can deep strike and then bounce. Oh and they have one of the best rules in the game.
Yea, that gak is awesome.
You will absolutely see H. Destroyers. Being able to do that is a crazy good bonus.
150 Points for a 3 T5 2 Wound Models, that have a 3+ 5++ , possibly get a chance to reroll that or have a bonus added to them, oh and they have Preferred enemy. That's crazy good.
Turns out the decision to let Codex: Necrons be written by someone who never had anything to do with Necrons before was a bad idea.
O_o this statement is absurd.
First, because nobody who wrote any of the previous Necron material remains at GW (Andy Chambers, Pete Haines, and Mat Ward have all moved on). Second because every book they've had has had a different author.
Overall, it sounds like the more abusive stuff is less so, and some units that needed help are getting it. It will be interesting to see if anything happens to Tesla Destructors.
I think I missed it, where are people getting that Quantum Shielding affects rear armor? If that's true, it makes Necron vehicles effectively immune to CC, a rather extreme buff given they already had enhanced rear armor and tanks otherwise are basically EZ-mode-auto-killed/point-click-deleted if anything makes it into base contact for every other faction in the game.
Am I the only person who is happy that Praetorians are useful/worth their point cost now? I always thought they looked cool but they weren't a great choice in 5e. The 2 attacks and range boost were really nice.
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: Now the army with the greatest technology just watches it fizzle after one blast. Did we run out of batteries?
Bah, it's not as if the Veil of Darkness was so good before that it needed to be nerfed into a single use item...
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: Now excuse me while I go forge a narrative about the Necron Dynasty obsessed with carrying useless glass decorative orbs into battle.
Alright, that cracked me up...
Sasori wrote: The rules to entropic strike are just stupid. Voidblades and Scarabs are useless now.
It's a tradeoff, I wouldn't call it an outright nerf...
The point bump on the Scarabs however is a definite nerf.
Sasori wrote: No available 2+ save for our Overlord is also really stupid... It seems that only Marines are allowed to have that.
This is patently ridiculous- the army with by far the most advanced material science in the setting and who's overlords were explicitly stated in fluff to have armor that is comparable to terminator armor if not outright superior to it has only a single Sv2+ option in the entire codex, and it's a goddamn artifact??
Archeotech may not be the artifacts or relics one per army . It may be like the Wrack weapons etc.. So we just don't know yet. There may be another list of stuff, right now it's just two lists, one with things that Cryptechs can take and one that they can probably.
Kersplakastani wrote: Am I the only person who is happy that Praetorians are useful/worth their point cost now? I always thought they looked cool but they weren't a great choice in 5e. The 2 attacks and range boost were really nice.
Are the Praetorians staff weapons buffed range wise do we know?
Kersplakastani wrote: Am I the only person who is happy that Praetorians are useful/worth their point cost now? I always thought they looked cool but they weren't a great choice in 5e. The 2 attacks and range boost were really nice.
Are the Praetorians staff weapons buffed range wise do we know?
If they keep the Power Axe rule for 28 points a model for models that are T5 3+ 5++ , and have a weapon that can shoot 12 ST5 AP. that's not terrible.
Lychguard are crazy good by the way .
Cryptek w/ Staff of Light
9 Lychgaurd
1 Ghost Ark
Around 400 points , but 27 ST7 AP 2 attacks (if Warscythes stay the same), Needs 6s to hit them when shooting at them because of the staff, then they get a 3 +, 4++ save because of the Cryptek and they're in a open top vehicle that has Gauss Arrays so they can shoot at stuff as well if needed and it has AV13.
Kersplakastani wrote: Am I the only person who is happy that Praetorians are useful/worth their point cost now? I always thought they looked cool but they weren't a great choice in 5e. The 2 attacks and range boost were really nice.
Are the Praetorians staff weapons buffed range wise do we know?
I believe they are now 12" range, not sure if they're still going to be assault 1. But I'd prolly still use the particle caster and void blades, since they're jump infantry they can get 4 hits in on the charge if they use them to charge, and can actually hit at initiative 10 with hammer of wrath. They're definitely worth their point cost now if all of this is true.
I still don't get why some people think scarabs will be awful with all the wraithknights and imperial knights running around. I'm sure spyders will still be 1-3 in a unit and have the same spawn rule pretty much. Entropic strike and gauss are the same now, glancing and auto-wounding on a 6. Most tanks only have 3-4 hullpoints at most and charging with at least 10 scarabs will wreck most tanks and gravely wound imp knights. Starting with 7-8 scarabs and then buffing the unit with spiders you can easily get a massive group quickly, and they should still be beasts. Although I did notice that he didn't list them as beasts which would be really bad if they weren't. Hmm, so yeah I guess they really wouldn't be worth it if they can't move 12 inchs.
I do concede that I will probably use the regular destroyers now since their biggest issue was survivability before.
Also with all the thunderwolf lists running around the doomsday ark will definitely help since it's s10 stationary now.
Sigvatr wrote: Oh god, after removing one iconic rule from Necrons (WBB / RP), GW also decided to remove the second iconic thing aka Regeneration Orbs. Warriors get another big nerf with 6+ RP vs. S8, so that's another hit for Silver Tide. The Monolith remains being bad and I already see Ghost Arks with LG hopping out of it being a viable strategy all of a sudden.
Monolith not getting its "Teleport to reroll WBB" ability back is just stupid, especially after the nerf to RP.
Turns out the decision to let Codex: Necrons be written by someone who never had anything to do with Necrons before was a bad idea.
Better keep cover because according to you the sky is falling, lol
would love to see someone play a C'Tan Energizer bunny, with the gauss weapons all mounted with batteries, hilarious!
Oh, I'm sure rules-wise, Necrons come off as a good faction. They just lost pretty much every Necron-ish thing about them. No models standing back up, Regeneration Orbs completely disconnected from the fluff, Monolith still being in the back ranks and not doing what it's supposed to do fluff-wise...etc. Necrons will be a viable army and the overall changes sound really good. But they aren't Necrons anymore, they just became even more generic than before.
Kersplakastani wrote: Am I the only person who is happy that Praetorians are useful/worth their point cost now? I always thought they looked cool but they weren't a great choice in 5e. The 2 attacks and range boost were really nice.
For sure - I'll def. give them a try now. I just couldn't justify it for only one attack before.
skybax wrote: I tired to predict what will be competitive with the codex, and came up with that:
Overall:
-Flyer spam is gone
-AV 13 Wall still works
-scarab farm dead
-infantry blobs significantly better (?)
-decurion good for spamming, but otherwise CAD is better because of Objective Secured.
HQ:
-Catacomb Command Barge for a close combat HQ (likely still worse than old Necron combat HQs because of the nerfs to defensive upgrades and MSS)
-Crypteks for supporting infantry blobs
-Zandrekh possibly good
-the rest: not really attractive
Troops:
-warriors in 20-strong footslogging blobs supported by Crypteks and possibly Ghost Arks (GAs don't change, right?)
-5-man warrior squads for saving the points, possibly in Scythes in a memento of the good old flying spam
-Gauss immortals in Scythes
Elites:
-Deathmarks against MCs -Lychguards, maxed out in Ghost Arks, that is, if point costs are enough to overshadow the overall suckiness of close combat
-Praetorians, maxed out to be a pretty good marine-like unit
-the rest not competitive, with Flayed Ones getting pretty close to being competitive.
Fast Attack - the most crowded slot:
-Wraiths for close combat, as before they were good, and now they got better
-Tomb Blades, maybe one of the best bikes in the game now, probably with gauss or these sickly cheap particle beamers. Spammable.
-Night Scythes still doing well enough to take them as transports.
-Ghost arks good for Lychguards, Immortals, Warrior blobs.
-scarabs and destroyers not worth it
Heavy support:
-Annihilation barge still usable, but with the price increase probably less spammable
-Heavy destroyers for anti-armour spam unless you're going for 13 AV wall
-the rest not worth it
Do you think this makes sense?
While I don't agree with all of your points... this list is much longer than a similar list that would have been formed from our 5e codex.
I seriously think that we may have moved into a board control style army. CCB is an awesome counter-charge unit. Tombblades softening up units on the edges while Wraiths move in for the kill. 2-3 large blocks of warriors filling large areas of the board to deny position supported by Ghost Arks, Crypteks, and the like. Dream? Yeah, maybe...
Sigvatr wrote: Oh god, after removing one iconic rule from Necrons (WBB / RP), GW also decided to remove the second iconic thing aka Regeneration Orbs. Warriors get another big nerf with 6+ RP vs. S8, so that's another hit for Silver Tide. The Monolith remains being bad and I already see Ghost Arks with LG hopping out of it being a viable strategy all of a sudden.
Monolith not getting its "Teleport to reroll WBB" ability back is just stupid, especially after the nerf to RP.
Turns out the decision to let Codex: Necrons be written by someone who never had anything to do with Necrons before was a bad idea.
Better keep cover because according to you the sky is falling, lol
would love to see someone play a C'Tan Energizer bunny, with the gauss weapons all mounted with batteries, hilarious!
Oh, I'm sure rules-wise, Necrons come off as a good faction. They just lost pretty much every Necron-ish thing about them. No models standing back up, Regeneration Orbs completely disconnected from the fluff, Monolith still being in the back ranks and not doing what it's supposed to do fluff-wise...etc. Necrons will be a viable army and the overall changes sound really good. But they aren't Necrons anymore, they just became even more generic than before.
While I don't agree with all of your points... this list is much longer than a similar list that would have been formed from our 5e codex.
I've got no experience above playing 200 pts level and reading Dakka, mind you, but if Necrons indeed get more competitive options and less broken ones, it's a win.
Something people are glossing over is the Tomb Blades.
Let's be clear here, they are 16 points per model, and can upgrade to ignore cover for apparently 2 pts a model to with Twin Linked 2 shot ST5 weapons. That's pretty great now. Add in that apparently they can get Steath for a 3+ Cover save Jinking and get basically a better FNP, that's pretty huge.
Redemption wrote: EW only works against removing all the wounds, so you'd still take the RP roll on a 6+ before modifiers against a wound that inflicts ID. You also cannot take FNP against an ID wound, even if you have EW, for that matter.
That is my point.
With a S10AP1 weapon he would first need to wound me three times, then get through my 4++ invulnerable and then through three 6's.
It's to point out that the new RP is awesome with multiple wounds and in the new Codex we seem to have quite some units with multiple wounds.
I also think that people are looking too much at the ID-part.
How often are players shooting S8 at your Warriors and Immortals?
And how often do you think people will fire S10 at our T5-units (which we have quite a lot of)?
These are all valid points, which is why so far nearly everything has been a netbuff in my opinion.
The loss of a 2+ and 3++ made Overlords a lot more vulernable. THey gained 5+ FNP and a cheap IWND. Not the best trade there, but I can understand where this came from. Having a 2+/3++ OVerlord with the best Melee weapon in the game, a long with IWND and a 4+ FNP would be even worse than Smashfether.
changemod wrote: Basically, we have a lot of units that can hurt, even if only slightly, anything now. Massive potential tactical flexibility.
Please list the units that can't hurt anything now thats a pretty serious claim.
Can, not can't.
But basically: Gauss at least forces a save on a six, same goes for Scarabs, and Scytheguard have a much more pumped up variant in that they have S7 Armourbane weapons and can leap out of an assault vehicle. An assault vehicle that has Gauss.
It goes on like that, really. Sure, having to roll a 6 then watch a 2+ plink it off might suck in some of these cases, but it applies to a lot of the army as a whole and thus means you can at least attempt to kill pretty much anything.
FMC is probably the only real issue. Flyers too, but not many fights are decided by flyers in my experience.
All I've gotten from these current rumours is 4++ on wraiths means they are going to go down much faster despite T5
I need 200p of heavy destroyers, gives me the equivalent of devastator squad but much much better.
My overlord on CCB might look cheaper, but not if I want a 2+ save, and only a 4+ save makes him a fair bit worse and the points are about equivalent.
AB's got the points increase and the slight nerf to Tesla - they have to jink a lot now they suck. Lets put it another way, compare then to a vindicator which is always AV13 and is a large blast s10 ap1 large blast. Is the AB barge that good? Nah - doesn't even have a flipping AP value.
Definitely nothing too bad but where I struggled before I might struggle more.
Jaq Draco lives wrote: All I've gotten from these current rumours is 4++ on wraiths means they are going to go down much faster despite T5
I need 200p of heavy destroyers, gives me the equivalent of devastator squad but much much better.
My overlord on CCB might look cheaper, but not if I want a 2+ save, and only a 4+ save makes him a fair bit worse and the points are about equivalent.
AB's got the points increase and the slight nerf to Tesla - they have to jink a lot now they suck. Lets put it another way, compare then to a vindicator which is always AV13 and is a large blast s10 ap1 large blast. Is the AB barge that good? Nah - doesn't even have a flipping AP value.
Definitely nothing too bad but where I struggled before I might struggle more.
No news on Imotekh? I'd love him to be a bad ass.
1) Im pretty sure its nearlly the same (though i should go math it out later)
4) But you get 13 on side. a single pen to a vindicator will for the most part neuter it (with shaken results +)
cant wait to see what level of shenanigans imotekh gets.
Jaq Draco lives wrote: All I've gotten from these current rumours is 4++ on wraiths means they are going to go down much faster despite T5
I need 200p of heavy destroyers, gives me the equivalent of devastator squad but much much better.
My overlord on CCB might look cheaper, but not if I want a 2+ save, and only a 4+ save makes him a fair bit worse and the points are about equivalent.
AB's got the points increase and the slight nerf to Tesla - they have to jink a lot now they suck. Lets put it another way, compare then to a vindicator which is always AV13 and is a large blast s10 ap1 large blast. Is the AB barge that good? Nah - doesn't even have a flipping AP value.
Definitely nothing too bad but where I struggled before I might struggle more.
No news on Imotekh? I'd love him to be a bad ass.
1) Im pretty sure its nearlly the same (though i should go math it out later)
4) But you get 13 on side. a single pen to a vindicator will for the most part neuter it (with shaken results +)
cant wait to see what level of shenanigans imotekh gets.
1. That might be one of those non intuitive math results, I'll wait for your post with interest. I do like the +3 initiative.
4. Its easy enough to be cautious with the vindicator. And you have the ability to seriously hurt anything. Barges can be all or nothing, good against light armour mainly but suck against most infantry with saves. It has lost a lot of the versatility in that I didn't mind so much that it had these faults because it was cheap and a distraction mostly, didn't matter if I jinked. I'll definitely still use them, but if I could swap them for vindicators I would.
If you are trying to Mini/Max, Wouldn't you rather have a Nightscythe over an Anni barge now that the Jink negates the Telsa shots multiplying?
JSJ with DS and HDS is going to be nice and survivalbility will be much better, but in a single CAD we now have a lot more options and no clear 'winner' for HS and FA.
After 4 months of re-collecting and playing and getting back in the hobby , now I will begrudgingly buy the Tomb blades. Because, buffs.
So... Am I the only one who's excited at the prospect of having a squad of Lychguards beam down from a Nightscyhte right in front of a gunline and popping a Solar Pulse via their friendly neighborhood Cryptek?
YOU BETTER RUN FAST FLESHLINGS, CAUSE YOU AIN'T GOING TO BRING DOWN THIS WALL OF T5 3+/4++/4+++ MURDER MACHINES MARCHING YOUR WAY WITH SNAPFIRE!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, putting a cryptek with a chronometron in a Warscythe Lychguard unit sounds like fun.
Galorian wrote: So... Am I the only one who's excited at the prospect of having a squad of Lychguards beam down from a Nightscyhte right in front of a gunline and popping a Solar Pulse via their friendly neighborhood Cryptek?
YOU BETTER RUN FAST FLESHLINGS, CAUSE YOU AIN'T GOING TO BRING DOWN THIS WALL OF T5 3+/4++/4+++ MURDER MACHINES MARCHING YOUR WAY WITH SNAPFIRE!
No, because assaulting out of a Ghost Ark is way more exciting.
Jaq Draco lives wrote: All I've gotten from these current rumours is 4++ on wraiths means they are going to go down much faster despite T5
I need 200p of heavy destroyers, gives me the equivalent of devastator squad but much much better.
My overlord on CCB might look cheaper, but not if I want a 2+ save, and only a 4+ save makes him a fair bit worse and the points are about equivalent.
AB's got the points increase and the slight nerf to Tesla - they have to jink a lot now they suck. Lets put it another way, compare then to a vindicator which is always AV13 and is a large blast s10 ap1 large blast. Is the AB barge that good? Nah - doesn't even have a flipping AP value.
Definitely nothing too bad but where I struggled before I might struggle more.
No news on Imotekh? I'd love him to be a bad ass.
1) Im pretty sure its nearlly the same (though i should go math it out later)
4) But you get 13 on side. a single pen to a vindicator will for the most part neuter it (with shaken results +)
cant wait to see what level of shenanigans imotekh gets.
1. That might be one of those non intuitive math results, I'll wait for your post with interest. I do like the +3 initiative.
4. Its easy enough to be cautious with the vindicator. And you have the ability to seriously hurt anything. Barges can be all or nothing, good against light armour mainly but suck against most infantry with saves. It has lost a lot of the versatility in that I didn't mind so much that it had these faults because it was cheap and a distraction mostly, didn't matter if I jinked. I'll definitely still use them, but if I could swap them for vindicators I would.
chance to wound. no ap yet because i dont know if they will keep the armor. Up to bolters they are better but will siginficatnly get worse once higher St comes into play. but will generally be identical if they have a 3+ armor save.
We had 1 person confirm it yes. They're a option in Fast Attack, it wouldn't make sense to make them a Fast Attack choice, then make them a Dedicated Transport who only Warriors and Immortals and can use.
Awesome! That's good news, means I can still do my Immortal army (not so keen on the warrior models) but still use Ghost Arks (cool models, and the boost to RP is nice). Also, as said, things like Lichguard in them will be cool...
This codex is the best thing happening to Necrons since a long time! The sturdy metal phalanx is back!
Living metal, RP, the Obelisk, Lychguard!!, the wargear damn, that is fine! Veil of darkness, I love it! Warrior blobs with chronometron and the new orb I cannot wait to get all the combinations done
Also now that destroyers are Jet-Pack units. Now this is amazing! Imagine this in fast objective play: jump 6 shoot, then jump up to 2d6 to the objectie or back in cover - this is going to be annoying and devastating: combined with two wounds and the new RP on a multiwound model and other wargear wich the destructor lord can talk will be fun!
Awwwww yes!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lychguard do not need a transport now, they are dead-hard to gun down now just spare the points for the transport and bring more ))))
Yup, I'm interested in the wargear they can select.
changemod wrote: Nah, it means there's a sweet spot they go down quicker to.
Against small arms fire, they're tougher.
Against S8 and 9 weaponry. They're tougher.
The sweet spot that kills them faster? S7 AP3.
You mistyped "plasma and grav".
It's just like MSS, which in theory is better.. unless you are playing against Fearless/ATSKNF.
It's as if the Emperor himself wrote the Codex.
Kangodo wrote: Yup, I'm interested in the wargear they can select.
changemod wrote: Nah, it means there's a sweet spot they go down quicker to.
Against small arms fire, they're tougher.
Against S8 and 9 weaponry. They're tougher.
The sweet spot that kills them faster? S7 AP3.
You mistyped "plasma and grav".
It's just like MSS, which in theory is better.. unless you are playing against Fearless/ATSKNF.
It's as if the Emperor himself wrote the Codex.
Well, "Weak to grab centurions and grab bikers" isn't saying much.
Plasma thankfully is usually not too saturated, but I'll keep an eye out for that triple plasma Russ variant at any rate.
Kangodo wrote: Yup, I'm interested in the wargear they can select.
changemod wrote: Nah, it means there's a sweet spot they go down quicker to.
Against small arms fire, they're tougher.
Against S8 and 9 weaponry. They're tougher.
The sweet spot that kills them faster? S7 AP3.
You mistyped "plasma and grav".
It's just like MSS, which in theory is better.. unless you are playing against Fearless/ATSKNF.
It's as if the Emperor himself wrote the Codex.
How do you figure MSS is better? MSS added hits (and potentially really awesome hits) and nullified attacks. The new MSS just nullifies attacks.
Kangodo wrote: Yup, I'm interested in the wargear they can select.
changemod wrote: Nah, it means there's a sweet spot they go down quicker to. Against small arms fire, they're tougher. Against S8 and 9 weaponry. They're tougher. The sweet spot that kills them faster? S7 AP3.
You mistyped "plasma and grav". It's just like MSS, which in theory is better.. unless you are playing against Fearless/ATSKNF. It's as if the Emperor himself wrote the Codex.
Well gravs always hurt in exactly the same way.
They become the same at autocannons and SMS with a 3+ armor save but plasma hurts them a bit harder. but are better against lascannons because T5
Fear test is WS1 right? so it dosent even fully nullify hits. its a straight nerf not even in theory.
The point was more that it's stronger against nearly everything except for two weapon-types which are spammed by one specific faction
col_impact wrote: How do you figure MSS is better? MSS added hits (and potentially really awesome hits) and nullified attacks. The new MSS just nullifies attacks.
Because Fear applies to the entire unit, despite the weird wording it seems to have.
That could actually be good if some Factions in this game (Yes, we all know who I am talking about) didn't have the habit of ignoring entire gameplay-rules.
Kangodo wrote: The point was more that it's stronger against nearly everything except for two weapon-types which are spammed by one specific faction
col_impact wrote: How do you figure MSS is better? MSS added hits (and potentially really awesome hits) and nullified attacks. The new MSS just nullifies attacks.
Because Fear applies to the entire unit, despite the weird wording it seems to have.
That could actually be good if some Factions in this game (Yes, we all know who I am talking about) didn't have the habit of ignoring entire gameplay-rules.
Pretty sure that almost everyone will argue that the fear doesn't spread to the unit. If it did, hell yes.
Kangodo wrote: The point was more that it's stronger against nearly everything except for two weapon-types which are spammed by one specific faction
col_impact wrote: How do you figure MSS is better? MSS added hits (and potentially really awesome hits) and nullified attacks. The new MSS just nullifies attacks.
Because Fear applies to the entire unit, despite the weird wording it seems to have.
That could actually be good if some Factions in this game (Yes, we all know who I am talking about) didn't have the habit of ignoring entire gameplay-rules.
Pretty sure that almost everyone will argue that the fear doesn't spread to the unit. If it did, hell yes.
Kangodo wrote: The point was more that it's stronger against nearly everything except for two weapon-types which are spammed by one specific faction
col_impact wrote: How do you figure MSS is better? MSS added hits (and potentially really awesome hits) and nullified attacks. The new MSS just nullifies attacks.
Because Fear applies to the entire unit, despite the weird wording it seems to have.
That could actually be good if some Factions in this game (Yes, we all know who I am talking about) didn't have the habit of ignoring entire gameplay-rules.
Pretty sure that almost everyone will argue that the fear doesn't spread to the unit. If it did, hell yes.
- but as others said nerfing the T-C'tan and doing what they supposedly did is something different man 
shall i take your baneblade and make it a Rhino?
