Having seen from what Sad Panda has said about Mont'ka being the only forseeable "Band-Aid" update to IG, the chances of a new IG codex looks dire indeed. Unfortunately, if you ain't SM or Eldar it seems you're always caught on the lower rung of the wheel of fortune.

 Grimskul wrote:
Having seen from what Sad Panda has said about Mont'ka being the only forseeable "Band-Aid" update to IG, the chances of a new IG codex looks dire indeed. Unfortunately, if you ain't SM or Eldar it seems you're always caught on the lower rung of the wheel of fortune.

If next year arrives with a lack of an IG codex then I shall have to review my decision to keep on playing 40K and not just convert purely to Mordhiem. The Mont'ka 'bandaid' is barely even worth being called that as most of the formations provided within it are utter junk (1000+ points of regular bod Guardsmen before upgrades anyone?) requiring many suboptimal models for very few buffs. Ultimately we need a new codex now, not later.

Does anyone else really want Rough Rider Command Squads? The maneuverability of a CCS in a Chimera without the resilience, for a lower cost, and with Hunting Lances to boot. Sure, you'd likely still want your kitted out with Regimental Advisors CCS, but I'd run a second on horses!

Another thing that would be cool is some kind of artillery spotter squad. Maybe 0-1 as part of an Infantry Platoon, 3 models, works similar to the Master of Ordnance? Maybe with the ability to call in other kinds of shell, for example some kind of smoke shell to improve cover saves, or even just to block LoS. I feel like it would be an interesting mechanic that would give the guard the artillery support I feel they should have!

Some sort of order, "Fix Bayonets!" or similar, that gives a unit some bonus in combat. Maybe it's furious charge, maybe it's a buff to units already locked in combat.

Give Heavy Weapon Squads +1T, and +1 to their cover save if they have not moved since deployment or something to represent them being entrenched.

Give mortars pinning!

I'm sure they could draw some interesting units from the vast amount of units created for Dark Heresy/Only War/etc.

 Grimskul wrote:
Having seen from what Sad Panda has said about Mont'ka being the only forseeable "Band-Aid" update to IG, the chances of a new IG codex looks dire indeed. Unfortunately, if you ain't SM or Eldar it seems you're always caught on the lower rung of the wheel of fortune.

Given that the last IG/AM codex was about half eight months after the previous tau codex it is reasonable to assume that new codex/release is to be expected by Q3 2016, By then the codex will be just over two years old, which is about the standard for lifecycle of the codex for 'major' factions these days.

I do have to admit the guard seem to have taken a severe beating the last five years or so, being pushed more and more into a secondary role whereas before the were consired one of the core factions of 40k, albeit almost always in the shadow of space marines whenever present, however begininng with the unneeded and unpopular name change and progressing into what appears to be blatent neglect, how long have we been stuck with the same old guardsmen kits for now, must be well over a decade now.

Big Guns wrote:
Does anyone else really want Rough Rider Command Squads?

Another thing that would be cool is some kind of artillery spotter squad.

Some sort of order, "Fix Bayonets!"

No, I don't really want RRCS - merely putting guys on a horse doesn't add any real benefit in 40k.

FO should be an IG thing, via Ratlings or some other stealthy unit.

Bayonets came up a very long time ago, and it's ridiculous in the extreme to apply any further benefit here. If anything, one may assume that IG are S3 *because* they have bayonets and/or shovels.

They only reason Rough Rider Command squads should exist is if they start coming as platoons.

I agree on bayonets. It's really stretching for buffs.

An idea I had... What if heavy weapon squads and special weapon squads had special rules to reflect their specialized role distinguishing them from the heavy weapon teams in infantry squads. It could even go further and replace those two squads with something more reimagined.

The problem with a RR Command Troop would be the exact same one faced by current RR units: They are vastly overpriced and underpowered.
Fix the RR units first and then add on the fancy stuff.

Big Guns wrote:
Does anyone else really want Rough Rider Command Squads?

Not really, no. Not unless they get given the same bonuses as bikers (+1T, Jink etc.). Otherwise, you're basically paying for a really CCS that can move as fast as if it was in a Chimera, without the protection or firepower of a chimera.

Next IG codex RRCS with mega blasta torrent flamers. Everyone wants as many as possible

Makumba wrote:
Next IG codex RRCS with mega blasta torrent flamers. Everyone wants as many as possible

But knowing GW the cost will be something in the region of 20 PPM

 vipoid wrote:

Big Guns wrote:
Does anyone else really want Rough Rider Command Squads?

Not really, no. Not unless they get given the same bonuses as bikers (+1T, Jink etc.). Otherwise, you're basically paying for a really CCS that can move as fast as if it was in a Chimera, without the protection or firepower of a chimera.

I think the Death Korp Death Riders are closer to how Rough Riders should be: platoons, +1W, FnP, 4+ sv . +1T like bikes isn't appropriate since RR mounts are living, I think Death Riders' +1W and FnP is more representative of riding a living mount.

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think the Death Korp Death Riders are closer to how Rough Riders should be: platoons, +1W, FnP, 4+ sv . +1T like bikes isn't appropriate since RR mounts are living

I agree about Death Korps, but I'll also say that +1T makes no sense for bikes either.

 aka_mythos wrote:
An idea I had... What if heavy weapon squads and special weapon squads had special rules to reflect their specialized role distinguishing them from the heavy weapon teams in infantry squads. It could even go further and replace those two squads with something more reimagined.

I really like this idea (because it reflects real world usage.

Designate a squad of lascannons as AT and they get Tank Hunter.
Designate a squad missile launchers, with Flakk instead of Frag&Krak, as AA and they get Interceptor.
Designate a squad of Heavy Bolters as suppression and they get pinning.

vipoid wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think the Death Korp Death Riders are closer to how Rough Riders should be: platoons, +1W, FnP, 4+ sv . +1T like bikes isn't appropriate since RR mounts are living

I agree about Death Korps, but I'll also say that +1T makes no sense for bikes either.

I agree its imperfect, but I think the rationale is that it represents the need for a weapon's shot to work its way through the bike to reach the rider, where the bike though armored is only about as much as the rider, and thus doesn't warrant an improved armor save.

Eisenfresser wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
An idea I had... What if heavy weapon squads and special weapon squads had special rules to reflect their specialized role distinguishing them from the heavy weapon teams in infantry squads. It could even go further and replace those two squads with something more reimagined.

I really like this idea (because it reflects real world usage.

Designate a squad of lascannons as AT and they get Tank Hunter.
Designate a squad missile launchers, with Flakk instead of Frag&Krak, as AA and they get Interceptor.
Designate a squad of Heavy Bolters as suppression and they get pinning.

Pretty much that.

 aka_mythos wrote:

I agree its imperfect, but I think the rationale is that it represents the need for a weapon's shot to work its way through the bike to reach the rider, where the bike though armored is only about as much as the rider, and thus doesn't warrant an improved armor save.

But that's the thing - the bikes simply don't conceal the user enough to warrant that increase in toughness (it's even worse in combat, where the bike would actually make it a lot harder for them to defend themselves). And, they certainly shouldn't be making characters harder to instant death.

 vipoid wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

I agree its imperfect, but I think the rationale is that it represents the need for a weapon's shot to work its way through the bike to reach the rider, where the bike though armored is only about as much as the rider, and thus doesn't warrant an improved armor save.

But that's the thing - the bikes simply don't conceal the user enough to warrant that increase in toughness (it's even worse in combat, where the bike would actually make it a lot harder for them to defend themselves). And, they certainly shouldn't be making characters harder to instant death.

Like I said it imperfect. Id say it's more a matter of proportionality and likelihood of it being the bike that takes the hit. When bikes were T4(5) they were just insets killed and it made them too vulnerable and now they're T5 they're too difficult to destroy... There isn't really anything in between.

As far as close combat goes bikes should keep moving, they really should have a forced hit and run as it doesn't make sense to sit still on a motorcycle when people are trying to beat your face in.

 aka_mythos wrote:

Like I said it imperfect. Id say it's more a matter of proportionality and likelihood of it being the bike that takes the hit.

But that's the thing - bikes just aren't tough enough to justify shrugging off lascannons or such, and the model is far too exposed to justify so many shots hitting the bike anyway.

 aka_mythos wrote:
When bikes were T4(5) they were just insets killed and it made them too vulnerable

T4(5) most certainly did not make them 'too vulnerable'. It just meant SM Captains couldn't ride round tanking lascannons.

The thing is, I honestly don't see why bikes need to provide any extra protection at all. Surely their sole purpose should be to drastically increase the speed of the model?

It should be that if a model, e.g. a SM Captain, wants extra protection then he has to take terminator armour or ride in a transport - as opposed to just sitting on bike, completely exposed.

It's yet another example of GW making models that eat their cake and still have it. Rather than making players choose between speed or protection, they have an option that gives the best of both worlds whilst costing virtually nothing. Similarly, Artificier Armour on anything other than techmarines needs to go die in a fire.

 aka_mythos wrote:

As far as close combat goes bikes should keep moving, they really should have a forced hit and run as it doesn't make sense to sit still on a motorcycle when people are trying to beat your face in.

Honestly, I think the sillier thing is that you'd willingly charge into combat on a motorcycle.

In any case, the other issue you'd have is that as soon as you stop it's a hell of a lot easier for people to just tip your motorcycle over.

@Those of you who want the option of making tanks Veterans (BS 4):

Honestly, is it because of background and it would fit some cool tank themes or because you want your Vanquishers to hit more often?

Chaospling wrote:
@Those of you who want the option of making tanks Veterans (BS 4):

Honestly, is it because of background and it would fit some cool tank themes or because you want your Vanquishers to hit more often?

Well for me it is a bit of both. We often hear of Tank crews becoming veteran and read fluff about veteran Tankers and it does make a lot of sense for the Tank crew within their armoured vehicle to last long enough to become veterans.

On the other hand I also want my tanks to actually hit their targets once in a while.

Maybe, *gasp* bring back targeting systems.

Martel732 wrote:
Maybe, *gasp* bring back targeting systems.

I'd be fine with this. God knows our tanks could use it

In all fairness, new formations are quite strong. Artillery with a bosspole comsquad are a prime answer to 'top' biker armies. Psykana is a trolltastic daemon factory. Sentinels are awesome. Vets are good. Core tank formation isy not half bad. Bane-tanks? Maybe.
Decurion itself is not needed. Well, aside from a suicide comsquad spam. Get 5-6 comsquads with specials, pods. Here you go. Abusive but effective and frightening alpha strike with orders. Can also get psykers and threaten the foe with telepathy madness.

Guard HAS become stronger.

 koooaei wrote:
In all fairness, new formations are quite strong. Artillery with a bosspole comsquad are a prime answer to 'top' biker armies. Psykana is a trolltastic daemon factory. Sentinels are awesome. Vets are good. Core tank formation isy not half bad. Bane-tanks? Maybe.
Decurion itself is not needed. Well, aside from a suicide comsquad spam. Get 5-6 comsquads with specials, pods. Here you go. Abusive but effective and frightening alpha strike with orders. Can also get psykers and threaten the foe with telepathy madness.

Guard HAS become stronger.

This.

Just the ability to take these formations in your regular guard army makes them much better. No need for the battle group decurion.

riburn3 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
In all fairness, new formations are quite strong. Artillery with a bosspole comsquad are a prime answer to 'top' biker armies. Psykana is a trolltastic daemon factory. Sentinels are awesome. Vets are good. Core tank formation isy not half bad. Bane-tanks? Maybe.
Decurion itself is not needed. Well, aside from a suicide comsquad spam. Get 5-6 comsquads with specials, pods. Here you go. Abusive but effective and frightening alpha strike with orders. Can also get psykers and threaten the foe with telepathy madness.

Guard HAS become stronger.

This.

Just the ability to take these formations in your regular guard army makes them much better. No need for the battle group decurion.

Nope, these formations are no where near the level needed to fix the Guard. One or two are decent (the Tank one and the SH one) but most of the rest are terrible.

 koooaei wrote:
In all fairness, new formations are quite strong. Artillery with a bosspole comsquad are a prime answer to 'top' biker armies. Psykana is a trolltastic daemon factory. Sentinels are awesome. Vets are good. Core tank formation isy not half bad. Bane-tanks? Maybe.
Decurion itself is not needed. Well, aside from a suicide comsquad spam. Get 5-6 comsquads with specials, pods. Here you go. Abusive but effective and frightening alpha strike with orders. Can also get psykers and threaten the foe with telepathy madness.

Guard HAS become stronger.

Yes, there are some obviously playable formations:
- 1+ Command Squad (command)
- Russ Company (core)
- Artillery Company
- Veteran + Hellhound Platoon

As a "Pay to Win" formation, Psyker requires massive investment in Psykers and Daemon models. You'll need 20-ish Imperial Psykers base (Astropath, Primaris, 3x5 Psykers) +10 Horrors +10 Blooodletters +10 Daemonettes +Greater Daemon(s). Thing is, wouldn't it be easier to just take an actual C: Daemons Horror factory, where the entire army can be optimized around this, rather than hoping that 500-ish points gets the job done?

Not sure about the Sentinels and Superheavies - they might be OK/average, but the don't jump out at me as must-take, must-buy compared to similar points of IKTs.

IG Decurion itself is only playable as CCS + Tanks, leaving only a few points for anything else. If you are a tanker, great! If not, well, not so awesome. Also, meat shields & bubble wrap? If you'd take a CAD to support the armor, wouldn't that be a CCS + Meltavets? If so, why wouldn't you add the Hellhounds to make the Vets ObSec? If you'd take a couple Platoons, and/or a 40/50-man blob, why wouldn't you add a Sentinel and get the movement bonus? Especially when the overall command gets Orders bonuses within the Detachment?

Really, I just see two builds coming out of this:
a) CCS; 5+ Russes; CCS, 3+ Arty; or
b) CCS; 5+ Russes; CCS, 3 MechVets, Hellhound(s)

It's better than mono-build, but not by much...

Well, i'd not fixate on decurion. It's not really worth it imo. I'd simply go with cad and this awesome formations.
And about daemons. You could always just model your guards a bit. Or use cultists - there's a ton of dark vengeance cultists for cheap lying around. As for points, it's not really that high. Get it behind blos or inside a vsg area. Enjoy, you're the best daemon summoner in game. Now you can drown the enemy in ignore cover artillery while sending in rows after rows of daemonettes. And still have 1k pts doing other stuff. What's not to like?

My point is that an artillery formation alone provides an effective way of dealing with current top-tear stuff that is so common and that ig used to not be able to deal with. Jinking stuff. Namely, bikes. T5, 3+, jinks...ehhh. Guess what, we've got ignore cover s9 ap3 large blast multi-barrage with a range to strike you from another room and ability to get twin-linked.

I don't know about eldar or sm level of cheeze but guards can do nasty things with their new formations - that's i'm certain about.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:


As a "Pay to Win" formation, Psyker requires massive investment in Psykers and Daemon models. You'll need 20-ish Imperial Psykers base (Astropath, Primaris, 3x5 Psykers) +10 Horrors +10 Blooodletters +10 Daemonettes +Greater Daemon(s). Thing is, wouldn't it be easier to just take an actual C: Daemons Horror factory, where the entire army can be optimized around this, rather than hoping that 500-ish points gets the job done?

Instead of buying "20-ish Imperial Psykers", just buy two boxes of Flagellants and kitbash some.
$58 for 20 Psykers versus $75 for 15.
You then have enough models left over to convert up several a Primaris and Astropath, with three spare for whatever you wanna use them for.

No real easy way to do the Daemons though.

With that many psykers, you could just put misfortune on everything and rend them out with lasguns.

Martel732 wrote:
With that many psykers, you could just put misfortune on everything and rend them out with lasguns.

That's actually a fun idea. Make those blobs deadly. FRFSRF. 'ere you go, 10 rends, mr wraithknight.

Lazguns that fire the light of the emperor himself.
...and they are reroling ones on those too.

Drop Rough Riders and give the IG bikes with TL lasguns and an attack bike that has a heavy stubber for it's basic weapon with heavier weapons as upgrades.

Or if you want to keep Rough Riders, bump the saves to at least +4 and an extra wound to represent the mass of the horse and barding to take a hit. A CCS option that if mounted on horses, makes Rough Riders troops, could be cool to.

Russes get lumbering behemoth back, but I'd be fine with dropping the squadroning shenanigans so it'll be like old times. Drop the cost of melee weapons like Power Anything and Power Fists by at least 5 if not 10 points.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:


Russes get lumbering behemoth back, but I'd be fine with dropping the squadroning shenanigans so it'll be like old times. Drop the cost of melee weapons like Power Anything and Power Fists by at least 5 if not 10 points.

Keep the Squadroning but let the Russes splitfire and extend the coherency to about 12" to allow the unit to operate like an actual tank troop.