ShiokenStar wrote: So I noticed that the Stone-Crusher Carnifex doesn't get a +1 to hit rolls after a successful charge like the Codex Carnifexes(Carnifexen?) do. What are the odds that the FW rules are going to get updated to be in line with its Carnifex-brothers?
Also on that note, thoughts on the 2x Wrecker Claws vs the 1x Claw, 1x Flail?
While we're talking Carnifexes, how are you guys keeping them alive? I've tried running three SC Carnifexes + OOE in like four games so far and I haven't gotten better than one wounded one + OOE into combat. They just seem to get sniped by AT weapons on the walk up, even with Trygons/Mawlocs being there to draw fire.
Shoter alwaays gets first pick of shooting unless you alpha strike. Just make sure your trygon/mawlocks actually are a threath.
So yesterday I used the Swarmlord - Lictor - Sporemine combo to blow up 6W Guilliman. I used 6 sporemines to detonate and had 3 sporemines that within 3" of Guilli left. Guilli came back to life with 4W at the end of charge phase. Do I get to blow those 3 sporemines near Guilliman?
Wilson wrote: How Does weapons beast and single minded annihilation work? Can you shoot twice, twice? Like it’s an exocrine or tyrannofex.
It would only allow you one additional fireing of the weapon ie fire 6 shots extra for exocrine....but SMA only works for infantry units so it dosen't work at all really.
Wilson wrote: How Does weapons beast and single minded annihilation work? Can you shoot twice, twice? Like it’s an exocrine or tyrannofex.
It would only allow you one additional fireing of the weapon ie fire 6 shots extra for exocrine....but SMA only works for infantry units so it dosen't work at all really.
Btw for spore mines remember, they all pop if within 3" at the end of the charge phase.
You don't pop them one by one ultill they kill the target. They just all pop. If there are multiple enemy units within 3" however you could pick who they pop againgst. There is no requirement to pop on the closest target or anything.
They also only pop at the end of the charge phase, so if for example an enemies pile in move takes them within 3" after all charges are complete they do not pop until the following turns charge phase.
Can somebody help me with my list? I have painted them in leviathan so that is what I am playing. I really want to field a core of warriors. I think some genestealer cult hammerants can help out making it difficult for my opponent.
Suggestion in the list are welcome.
6 venom cannons, 6 impalor cannons and 8 hammerants are my anti tank.
14 devilgaunts, 12 devourers are my anti infantery.
The gaunts can screen alpha strikes, in a pich one of the rippers also, (Rippers are there to grab obnjectives.)
10 CP. However, I am running 7 HQ at 2000 points, that is way to many. I feel I need more bodies on the tables, less toys.
Aberrants [14 PL, 264pts] . Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
Anyone ever think about using a carnifex with 4 devs and the acid maw head? Statisically it only costs you 3 hits in shooting but it increases your close combat a great deal. 4 str 7 ap-5 d3 damage attacks. Cost is the same.
Xenomancers wrote: Anyone ever think about using a carnifex with 4 devs and the acid maw head? Statisically it only costs you 3 hits in shooting but it increases your close combat a great deal. 4 str 7 ap-5 d3 damage attacks. Cost is the same.
Given the proximity a dakkafex is going to have to get to shoot at a choice target, I’m more inclined to give them the ability to waste MEQs and monsters in close quarters than to get an extra shooting hit or two. That said, I run Behemoth, and shooting’s kind of something I do on the hoof to disrupt the fleshthings’ attempts to gun down the banzai charge.
Edit: plus, I’d already built them like this, and I’m a stickler for WYSIWYG.
That is my standard dakkafex loadout. Too many times I've had enhanced senses dakkafexes get tied up in combat and made completely useless. The acid maw head is definitely worth it.
ShiokenStar wrote: So I noticed that the Stone-Crusher Carnifex doesn't get a +1 to hit rolls after a successful charge like the Codex Carnifexes(Carnifexen?) do. What are the odds that the FW rules are going to get updated to be in line with its Carnifex-brothers?
Also on that note, thoughts on the 2x Wrecker Claws vs the 1x Claw, 1x Flail?
I think they will absolutely be updated to have all the basic carnifex rules from the codex plus their unique schtick. That being said it will happen when FW gets around to producing new IA books. ... So like... 2-3 years from now.
Arson Fire wrote: That is my standard dakkafex loadout. Too many times I've had enhanced senses dakkafexes get tied up in combat and made completely useless. The acid maw head is definitely worth it.
That's what I was thinking. Kinda stinks on turn 1 if you have to advance to shoot though.
Arson Fire wrote: That is my standard dakkafex loadout. Too many times I've had enhanced senses dakkafexes get tied up in combat and made completely useless. The acid maw head is definitely worth it.
That's what I was thinking. Kinda stinks on turn 1 if you have to advance to shoot though.
I think the Dakkafex with Acid Maw is one of the very few reasons, why you would still use a Tyrannocyte.
Arson Fire wrote: That is my standard dakkafex loadout. Too many times I've had enhanced senses dakkafexes get tied up in combat and made completely useless. The acid maw head is definitely worth it.
That's what I was thinking. Kinda stinks on turn 1 if you have to advance to shoot though.
I think the Dakkafex with Acid Maw is one of the very few reasons, why you would still use a Tyrannocyte.
Even then though - you can just take 2 carnifex for the cost of that Tcyte. It's too bad you cant fit a brood of 3 in there...then it would actually be playable.
If anyone can help me make this list better I'd really appreciate. Going for a competitive Nidzilla type list.
Niiai wrote: Can somebody help me with my list? I have painted them in leviathan so that is what I am playing. I really want to field a core of warriors. I think some genestealer cult hammerants can help out making it difficult for my opponent.
Suggestion in the list are welcome.
6 venom cannons, 6 impalor cannons and 8 hammerants are my anti tank.
14 devilgaunts, 12 devourers are my anti infantery.
The gaunts can screen alpha strikes, in a pich one of the rippers also, (Rippers are there to grab obnjectives.)
10 CP. However, I am running 7 HQ at 2000 points, that is way to many. I feel I need more bodies on the tables, less toys.
Aberrants [14 PL, 264pts] . Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
++ Total: [100 PL, 2000pts] ++
I think i would try to merge the devilgauntrs into on eunit of 30 with 20 devour, 10 fleshborers. NOt familiar with aberrant so i cant comment there. YOur HQ overload seems to be due to the GSC. how set are you on taken those? You have about a 1/4 of your list devoted to GSC which isnt going to get get any benefits form the tyranid codex HFA, stratagems, etc...
Eihnlazer wrote: Btw for spore mines remember, they all pop if within 3" at the end of the charge phase.
You don't pop them one by one ultill they kill the target. They just all pop. If there are multiple enemy units within 3" however you could pick who they pop againgst. There is no requirement to pop on the closest target or anything.
They also only pop at the end of the charge phase, so if for example an enemies pile in move takes them within 3" after all charges are complete they do not pop until the following turns charge phase.
Please reread the 'floating death' rule. A spore mine indeed inflicts the mortal wounds to the nearest enemy unit.
Xenomancers wrote: Anyone ever think about using a carnifex with 4 devs and the acid maw head? Statisically it only costs you 3 hits in shooting but it increases your close combat a great deal. 4 str 7 ap-5 d3 damage attacks. Cost is the same.
I do. It seems to be the logical choice for combining firepower with beeing a threat in melee (for example to pop vehicles). Until now for me it just works fine. Most of my enemys rather gun them down, than mess with them in melee. If they do, they overwhelm them with heavy hitters.
For beeing Kraken its not very healthy to let them survive a round of combat, because of the fall back and recharge mechanic. (mortal wound on 4+, +1 to hit on charge, chargers fight first)
HivefleetSkorpios wrote: So yesterday I used the Swarmlord - Lictor - Sporemine combo to blow up 6W Guilliman. I used 6 sporemines to detonate and had 3 sporemines that within 3" of Guilli left. Guilli came back to life with 4W at the end of charge phase. Do I get to blow those 3 sporemines near Guilliman?
Hate to say it, but if you used the Lictor to do Pheremone Trail on the Sporemines, that's illegal, as Spore Mines are not Infantry.
Yeah sorry about the spore mines thing. was just thinking they didn't all have to target the same unit (and they don't). They do however all hit the closest unit to themselves.
So you just have to maneuver the mines so that they are closer to the thing you want to splode on.
I just bought 20ish Genestealers from the Space Hulk set to bulk out the number of Genestealers in my army. Beautiful models. But I am wondering whether I should base them on 32mm bases (which would really look nice). My other unit of 20 Genestealers is on 25mm bases. Should I base them on 25's to keep them consistent, or 32's so they look nice? Although the Purestrains for GSC are on 32's, the Genestealer box comes with 25's. What do you all think?
Also, what are the tactical benefits/draw backs of 25 vs 32mm bases? Trygon tunnel is out for the 32's but pile in and consolidation into combat is easier. But maybe not easier to get out of combat using Kraken tactics.
32mm is what I would want for my Genestealers from the esthetic and logistic side - they look much better on 32mm bases and they are easier to move and bunch up on the table without getting their arms and legs tangled up.
But there are some real drawbacks. AFAIK there are no 32mm slotted bases, which mean you would have to cut off that slot line on the model, or make your own slot in the base. And even if you do, your stealers will be prone to snap at the single tiny foot connecting to the base. Either way too much work for me.
If there are indeed slotted 32mm bases, there's still the in-game issues to ponder - the Trygon tunnel goes out the window for big units, and you won't be able to fight in 4 ranks anymore (25mm models can fight in 4 ranks in 8th ed) so your Genestealer will have a harder time delivering the punch.
Long time reader of the thread first time posting just recently started putting together a tyranid army together been playing space marines ( UM and BA) on off since 5th, loving the nids new codex so far only had one game and had a blast!
I just recently based all the stealers from my space hulk set aswell. Some great models! Ended up going with the 25mm bases to match the stealers I already had from the old battle of maccragge set from when I was younger. I wasn't feeling like cutting slots into 35's and re basing everything. After I was done a friend told me he found 35mm slotted bases I believe from bloodbowl! Comes 12 in a pack can find them on GW website!
There’s plenty of 3rd party companies making 32mm base extenders, it’s what people used to move their marines to the bigger base size. Pop those on your bases, no need to take them off.
Small team tournament coming up at the end of the month and I'm not sure what to run. I've been paired up with a grey knight player so they are leaning on me to provide bodies and anti-tank. Problem is, I only have 1000 points to work with which limits some of the build options.
Currently I'm leaning towards one of the following possibilities:
1. 'stealer shock: Just rush the foe with as many Genestealers as I have, using either Kraken or Jormungandr to deliver them. Doesn't leave much for anti-tank but does put a lot of fast bodies on the board to go after gunlines. 2. Kronos gunline: 12x Hive Guard with some Warriors and Termagants as support. Lots of anti-tank but a bit static. 3. Jormungandr 'fex spam: However many Carnifexes I can cram in to double down on 2+ save bodies (Grey Knight player is running Draigo + Terminators as the bulk of their force). Very few bodies though... 4. Hydra gaunt spam: Just flood the board with a mix of Hormagaunts/Termagants/Gargoyles with a couple Neurothropes to provide synapse and leave a few points aside for respawn/outflank. 5. Mechanized GSC: Doesn't bring a ton of bodies but Goliaths are fairly resilient and provide mobility. GSC infantry in general are more lethal than Tyranid infantry, but doubles down on fragility.
Biggest problem is that I have no idea what the meta will be for the team tournament. Most of the players don't attend our weekly league nights and some are from out of town. The last one I was able to attend had a heavy slant towards gunlines, but was much earlier in the edition cycle and prior to the codex release (used the aforementioned mechanized GSC for that one).
Strat_N8 wrote: Small team tournament coming up at the end of the month and I'm not sure what to run. I've been paired up with a grey knight player so they are leaning on me to provide bodies and anti-tank. Problem is, I only have 1000 points to work with which limits some of the build options.
Currently I'm leaning towards one of the following possibilities:
1. 'stealer shock: Just rush the foe with as many Genestealers as I have, using either Kraken or Jormungandr to deliver them. Doesn't leave much for anti-tank but does put a lot of fast bodies on the board to go after gunlines.
2. Kronos gunline: 12x Hive Guard with some Warriors and Termagants as support. Lots of anti-tank but a bit static.
3. Jormungandr 'fex spam: However many Carnifexes I can cram in to double down on 2+ save bodies (Grey Knight player is running Draigo + Terminators as the bulk of their force). Very few bodies though...
4. Hydra gaunt spam: Just flood the board with a mix of Hormagaunts/Termagants/Gargoyles with a couple Neurothropes to provide synapse and leave a few points aside for respawn/outflank.
5. Mechanized GSC: Doesn't bring a ton of bodies but Goliaths are fairly resilient and provide mobility. GSC infantry in general are more lethal than Tyranid infantry, but doubles down on fragility.
Biggest problem is that I have no idea what the meta will be for the team tournament. Most of the players don't attend our weekly league nights and some are from out of town. The last one I was able to attend had a heavy slant towards gunlines, but was much earlier in the edition cycle and prior to the codex release (used the aforementioned mechanized GSC for that one).
I think Kraken stealer shock or the Kronos guidelines are the most effective of your choices but I'd say play what you enjoy playing....that's the greatest thing about our current codex there are very few "wrong" choices.
Strat_N8 wrote: Small team tournament coming up at the end of the month and I'm not sure what to run. I've been paired up with a grey knight player so they are leaning on me to provide bodies and anti-tank. Problem is, I only have 1000 points to work with which limits some of the build options.
Currently I'm leaning towards one of the following possibilities:
1. 'stealer shock: Just rush the foe with as many Genestealers as I have, using either Kraken or Jormungandr to deliver them. Doesn't leave much for anti-tank but does put a lot of fast bodies on the board to go after gunlines.
2. Kronos gunline: 12x Hive Guard with some Warriors and Termagants as support. Lots of anti-tank but a bit static.
3. Jormungandr 'fex spam: However many Carnifexes I can cram in to double down on 2+ save bodies (Grey Knight player is running Draigo + Terminators as the bulk of their force). Very few bodies though...
4. Hydra gaunt spam: Just flood the board with a mix of Hormagaunts/Termagants/Gargoyles with a couple Neurothropes to provide synapse and leave a few points aside for respawn/outflank.
5. Mechanized GSC: Doesn't bring a ton of bodies but Goliaths are fairly resilient and provide mobility. GSC infantry in general are more lethal than Tyranid infantry, but doubles down on fragility.
Biggest problem is that I have no idea what the meta will be for the team tournament. Most of the players don't attend our weekly league nights and some are from out of town. The last one I was able to attend had a heavy slant towards gunlines, but was much earlier in the edition cycle and prior to the codex release (used the aforementioned mechanized GSC for that one).
Have you looked at Biovores? Run 2 Broodlord and 2 units of 20 Genestealers w/ toxin sacs (why not, might as well make the 6+ to wound a -4 AP and 2 dmg) and then fill the rest of the points with Biovores.
That gives you anti-infantry and basically anti-everything if the Biovores stay around long enough. Jormungadr would probably suit the Biovores more but going Kraken to tie things up isn't a bad idea.
So I posted a version of this in the Army lists but got no response so I thought I would try here as I have seen others doing.
This list is for an upcoming 1500 pt tourniment using the CA Beta rules and scoring system will be using the ITC 2017 system for major and minor wins or losses.
I plan to start with the Nero and Hive guard in the most centeral/LOS blocking spot I can find and bubble wrap with the small gaunt squad and the 3 Mucilids. The Mucilids will advance up the board asap as a distraction carnifex (they look really scary :-) )That's my 6 min squad boots on the ground. The rest is all reserved for DS.
I'm gonna give the Gun Tyrant (who is my warlord) The Jog WL trait that allows itself and all friendlies within 3" to ignore cover. I plan to use Jog strat to bring in the Genestealers and the Dev Gaunts. Both tyrants will come in close to the Dev Gaunts if possable which means they will all ignore cover. Keep the WL Tyrant behind the Gaunts and of course assault asap with genes and Raviners. 2CP reserved for Genes and Dev gaunts, I plan to use 4 on the shoot twice strat(between the Dev gaunts and Hive guard over first 2 turns) and the final is for an emergency re-roll.
Does this stand up vs most 1500pts lists? Do I have any major holes in my list that need plugging? Thx in advance.
If you're using Jorm stealers, the extended carapace makes a really, really big difference vs non-ap weapons.
But then you've got to accept that your stealers are going to have to eat a full round of shooting, otherwise you're going to waste the jorm buff, and then the cost for the carapace isn't as worth it.
Using jorm with pure carnifex is a waste of jorms potential in my opinion. You really want that strat to shine by deepstriking some great infantry. And preferably have options built into your list so you can adjust whos doing what to match your opponent.
Spoletta wrote: This is the kind of list where i would really try to find the points for the extended carapaces on the stealers.
I looked at the ext carapice but my points are very tight as it is and I'd need to loose something important or necessary (12 units 6 on the board 6 DS all needed).
Niiai wrote: Can somebody help me with my list? I have painted them in leviathan so that is what I am playing. I really want to field a core of warriors. I think some genestealer cult hammerants can help out making it difficult for my opponent.
Suggestion in the list are welcome.
6 venom cannons, 6 impalor cannons and 8 hammerants are my anti tank.
14 devilgaunts, 12 devourers are my anti infantery.
The gaunts can screen alpha strikes, in a pich one of the rippers also, (Rippers are there to grab obnjectives.)
10 CP. However, I am running 7 HQ at 2000 points, that is way to many. I feel I need more bodies on the tables, less toys.
Aberrants [14 PL, 264pts] . Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
++ Total: [100 PL, 2000pts] ++
I think i would try to merge the devilgauntrs into on eunit of 30 with 20 devour, 10 fleshborers. NOt familiar with aberrant so i cant comment there. YOur HQ overload seems to be due to the GSC. how set are you on taken those? You have about a 1/4 of your list devoted to GSC which isnt going to get get any benefits form the tyranid codex HFA, stratagems, etc...
Thanks for the repply. Hammerants are S10, well worth 450 points in cults. I am a bit unsure about the 2. magus, but giving something less aim is good. As does my nid psyker.
I think the following list should do better. Dipping into IG gives me lascannons and mortars that should help clear away chaff, and help kill big stuff. Hive guards are fine and all but i want that s9, and the s10 the hammerants bring.
Aberrants [14 PL, 264pts] . Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
Aberrants [14 PL, 264pts] . Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
SO through genestealer cults, (or with cult) we can get a leman russ. How does the russes measure up against exoscrhines and tyranofexes on the mathhammer side?
shadowfinder wrote: How have people found big 9 man unit with 3 Venoms or 3 Barbed any good? Backed by a Prime?
Looking at kronos or Jormn for Hive fleets.
Ive been testing 2 units (6 and 9) backed by a prime with venoms/deathspitters in a Jorm list. They work great. You bring other screens along in the Rav tunnel to keep them out of melee. while pooring out a god awful amount of heavy bolter shots and anti tank. The Rav tunnels keep them off the board if you loose first turn and the deepstrike lets you place them right where you need to to make sure everything can target what needs to be targeted.
Hey guys was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on my first tyranid list I've ever put together. Been playing marines (BA and UM) for years but always wanted a Xenos army and I finally finished building what I have in this list and looking forward to my first game this week. I'm planning on eventually adding in a flying Hive tyrant once they come back in stock in my area as somewhat an answer to fliers. Any advice/ tips would be much appreciated thanks!
Plan is to keep one of the neurothropes in the back with the rupturefex's and hiveguard for synapse and as a second catalyst backup incase the death of the second neurothrope who will advance with the stealers, supported by broodlord, and Malanthrope.
purchased malanthrope before CA thinking about replacing him with 3 venomthropes instead. originally wanted him with the Kronos gun line but realized the stealers are quite vulnerable when you don't get first turn and they get shot at before getting catalyst off
Gunna throw the horror on broodlord since he should be in a better forward position to cast on enemy units.
Trygon will pop out with devilgaunts to eliminate any screens. If he fails charge with cp reroll hopefully the -1 relic will keep in alive while also making my opponent choose to shoot the trgon in his face or my rupturefex's.
Finally the rippers can either be used deny/ control enemy DS from possible alpha strikes, or late game objective grabbers depending on the enemy.
Niiai wrote: SO through genestealer cults, (or with cult) we can get a leman russ. How does the russes measure up against exoscrhines and tyranofexes on the mathhammer side?
The damage output is very comparable. A battlecannon + Lascannon [Brood Brothers] regiment LRBT costs 164, and averages 4.08 damage against T7/3+, for a cost efficiency of 40.2 pts/damage. Compared to 40.45 for Impaler guard, 40.82 for rupturefex, and 43.2 for exocrines. The LRBT is much more durable per point, even with all 3 being T8/3+. LRBT are 13.6 pts/wound, Rupturefex 17pts/wound, and Exocrines at 18 pts/wound. The LRBT is more mobile, being able to move up to 10" without BS penalty, and up to 5" while still getting to double tap compared to 6" and 0" for the Tyranno, and 0" and 0" for Exo.
AMLRBT have access to a few other buffs, but nids also have access to -1 to hit aura, +1 sv/reroll 1s, and their stratagem.
As a choice for nids, I'd say it's really up to what you want to play and specific roles in your force, and what else you have. Straight AM are a bit better than the Nid big gun beasts, though I think even with catachan I'd rather have Hive Guard.
The tyranofex rupture cannon seems so bad though. If you happen to meet a T8 model that you need ti kill. Yes, that is good. But for the most part the flamer would be better. (I am running some warriors, so he can walk up with them.) But the LRBT is such a good allrounder, and I suspect, comes out better vs T8 then the exoshrine. And it is better vs most lists then the rupture cannon tyranofex who is a bit bad if you don't meet a T8 unit you need to hurt fast.
Niiai wrote: The tyranofex rupture cannon seems so bad though. If you happen to meet a T8 model that you need ti kill. Yes, that is good. But for the most part the flamer would be better. (I am running some warriors, so he can walk up with them.) But the LRBT is such a good allrounder, and I suspect, comes out better vs T8 then the exoshrine. And it is better vs most lists then the rupture cannon tyranofex who is a bit bad if you don't meet a T8 unit you need to hurt fast.
I mean, damage wise the rupture cannon is super comparable to the LRBT if it doesn't move. It's about half as effective if it has to move. This is without figuring in the stinger salvoes, which I'm sure are pretty negligible (I'd guesstimate around .3 wounds on average vs any 3+ vehicle).
Also, the exocrine is ~51 pts/damage compared to 49 pts/damage vs t8.
Niiai wrote: SO through genestealer cults, (or with cult) we can get a leman russ. How does the russes measure up against exoscrhines and tyranofexes on the mathhammer side?
The damage output is very comparable. A battlecannon + Lascannon [Brood Brothers] regiment LRBT costs 164, and averages 4.08 damage against T7/3+, for a cost efficiency of 40.2 pts/damage. Compared to 40.45 for Impaler guard, 40.82 for rupturefex, and 43.2 for exocrines. The LRBT is much more durable per point, even with all 3 being T8/3+. LRBT are 13.6 pts/wound, Rupturefex 17pts/wound, and Exocrines at 18 pts/wound. The LRBT is more mobile, being able to move up to 10" without BS penalty, and up to 5" while still getting to double tap compared to 6" and 0" for the Tyranno, and 0" and 0" for Exo.
AMLRBT have access to a few other buffs, but nids also have access to -1 to hit aura, +1 sv/reroll 1s, and their stratagem.
As a choice for nids, I'd say it's really up to what you want to play and specific roles in your force, and what else you have. Straight AM are a bit better than the Nid big gun beasts, though I think even with catachan I'd rather have Hive Guard.
I second the Hive Guard. They work out as 40.4 pts per damage, don’t require line of sight and can double tap for 2 CP
To me the Tyrannofex is best served with Acid Spray. The range is solid, and we don't have much in our toolkit to fight Flyers, should the need arise.
For anything else, Hive Guard are better overall shooting in my opinion.
I bought a kit of warriors for small 500 point games, and slow grow /casual. I'll be honest. I've never even bothered with them, because a 4+ means you die super fast, and previously instant death made them a joke. My thoughts on them:
1. Boneswords are the best things for them. It's only 2pts, and they get an extra attack with decent AP.
2. In regards to guns, for 1 point more than a devourer i can get -1ap and strength 5.
How are those 2 options not auto-take? I suppose if i was really attempting to build a list around warriors with a Tyranid prime i would work in the venom cannon, but i'm not, so little point. Or am i totally off here?
1. 18" acid spray is actually really long. You do not need or want a pod for him.
2. He only fires 2d6 overwatch. 4d6 is if he shoots in the shooting phase.
For his current cost, I don't know if i'll bring him. But with all the minus to hit, being able to reliably deal any damage at range is nice. In ITC his range will allow him to bully 2 objectives no problem.
Marmatag wrote: That depends on your list, but a couple things:
1. 18" acid spray is actually really long. You do not need or want a pod for him.
2. He only fires 2d6 overwatch. 4d6 is if he shoots in the shooting phase.
For his current cost, I don't know if i'll bring him. But with all the minus to hit, being able to reliably deal any damage at range is nice. In ITC his range will allow him to bully 2 objectives no problem.
So I believe his normal shooting is doubled 4d6 is is standing still.
Hey is anyone here going to LVO? Any lists you want to share? Or keeping it secret?
Also played a game today with a jormungandr gunline vs a chaos gunline, with my twist being a unit of 29 hormagaunts running up the field with swarm lord boosting them. I was able to get into combat with a lot of his stuff with them for two turns so I was able to create a huge advantage for myself and roll him over in a few turns.
Tyrannofexes are quite good, I was pretty happy with their performance. One with rupture cannon and one with acid spray both did quite well. 8 heavy bolter shots a turn each aint to shabby either.
I had a 3 round ITC tourney this weekend. I went 2-1. Beat Deathguard and Tau, lost to "that" Eldar list. There were 12 players, I placed 5th. I was the only Nids player.
I ran Leviathain. I found having the extra 6+ pretty much all the time as only the canrifexs and GS had to worry about staying in Synapse. The GS ran with the Trygon Prime (but normally got the 5+ from Catalyst).
Flyrant, Devoureers with BLW, Bonesword and whip Reaper of Obliterax, WLT perfectly adapted.
Flytrant with HVC, Rending claws
Tyranid Prime with SY and Deathspitter
Malanthrope
OOE 2 Carnifex with ST and HVC (probably go all dakka next time)
2 units of 6 warriors (ST, Deathspitters x4, 2x VC)
Genestealers 19x
Trygon Prime
Rippers 3x 3 units
For 2ndarys:
I did Table Quarters every game, it was a good easy points. The other times it was either Headhunter or Big Game Hunter or Old school. I found most of my opponents to MEU rather than larget units.
Eldar: lost 17-5 I went first. 6 objectives with diagonel deployment. He had a unit of 9x bikes which were allstars. He screened well. He interrupted my DS genestealers with reroll wounds with Dark Reapers and wiped them. That sucked. His bikes zipped behind me. He had lots of pyskers too, Kronos would have helped, even though he perilled 3x.
Only made it through 2 full turns.
Deathgurad: Won 19-5, I went first again. 4 objectives. He blobbed up. I DS my flyrants on one flank, GS and Trygon on the other, and marched up with a blob of warriors, carnifex, malanthrope and prime. The GS made their charge off DS and tied up a lot of his characters. Eating them and regain CP. Also fighiting again was useful. Game went 2 full turns, but without him zoning me it was a slaughter.
Tau: Won 17-13, close game. he went first. Hammer and anvil deployment with no LoS blocking terrain. FML.
he killed 7 warriors turn 1. Wounding a carnifex. I advanced forward to get in range. I use metabolic overdrive on Old One Eye with advance and catalyst him to get a turn 1 charge. Flyrant DS each flank. GS deepstrike in the middle.
Now, when OOE charge his ENITRE army got overwatch againt OOE for being within 6" of a unit I declared a charge on. I havn't played Tau yet, and was very surpirse by this. He brought him down to 3 wounds.
It was a tight fought game, he took Head Hunter and Big Game hunter taking out flyrant, OOE, Trygon. I popped a few tanks, one was down to 1 wound. This game went through 4 full turns.
Overall: Leviathain was actually good, I wanted to try something without hordes of infantry to move because I was concerned with time. Kronos would have been helpful for Eldar for sure.
Carnifexs should either be all shooty or all melee, going split seemed to be a waste.
Warriors actually did pretty good. With the primes buff and the malanthrope casting its shroud, with the FnP 6+ I had a solid core that could put out decent fire. And with the amount of MEU armies, the higher strenth and AP seemed better than mass devourer shots.
GS are great. Acid maws are great. Nothing new here.
Trygon Prime didnt get into combat once, he was just an expensive taxi. I was going for synapse buff for the 6+, but ended up pretty much always giving the GS catalyst, so a regular trygon would have been fine.
Rippers are a MUST. 3 units can easily grab all the table quarters. Getting 2ndary points is something that should not be underestimated for ITC.
Flyrant with Repear of Obliterax & TS is amazing! You can easily one shot most tanks and High Wound models. Especially with the WLT allowing me one free reroll. I used it for wounds or Armor Saves every time.
Nids also give a lot of headhunter and big game hunter dual points (Flyrants, Trygons, etc...) I had 6 characters in my list. So be aware of the amount of points you are going to potentially give up.
Overall I think nids are in a good place. I would definitely change my list, and if you are going competitive I think at least a detachment of Kronos for the pysker deny is a must. With eldar and chaos running around, and smite spam, its vital.
Cool battle report. Thanks for the write up. I have some questions:
Heavy venom cannon flying hive tyrant. How where these? I have a hard time deciding on the HV cannon vs dakka. 24 shots or 12 shots is so good.
How did the carnifexes perform? Do theyneed old one eye to be good?
While old 8ne eye can not be targeted, is he not a bit expensive for what he does?
How did the warriors venom canon perform? D3 shots and d3 damage seems weard. Would you consider putting them in a trygon, or does the lack of a prime hold you back?
Heavy venom cannon flying hive tyrant. How where these? I have a hard time deciding on the HV cannon vs dakka. 24 shots or 12 shots is so good.
The HVC was useful because he had the RC. So this HT I used to take out high toughness things like tanks. The other guy with Dev w/ BLW went for softer targets or characters.
How did the carnifexes perform? Do theyneed old one eye to be good?
I only got the regular guys into combat once against the DG termies. They tore them up. They did not have OOE with them. I will probably go pure Shooty (HVC and Dev or all Dev) or go pure Melee if I want to run them with OOE. Going split was bad. Unforuntaley these have the arms glued on.
While old 8ne eye can not be targeted, is he not a bit expensive for what he does?
He did great. He took an entire tau army firing overwatch at him (distraction) and killed some chaff. His shining moement was when he killed a DP and and tied up a 7 man squad of plague marines by himself.
Eldar just ignored him.
How did the warriors venom canon perform? D3 shots and d3 damage seems weard. Would you consider putting them in a trygon, or does the lack of a prime hold you back?
I would hold them back if I went shooty. If you are going melee warriors then a trygon might work. The d3 and d3 was wierd, I would honestly prefer a flat 2. I felt a rolled a lot of 1's for damage and number of shots. That being said having the VC was great for antitank and necessary since I didn't take HG, Exocrene, Tyrannofex. With the Prime +1 they are even better.
Did you miss having no screening units?
Nope, I was advancing toward my enemy most of the time. Tau DS his commander, but kept him near his army. Eldar might have been helpful to have, but I think it was more of a his list was the ultimate list and that was my first tourney game. Against DG I just surrounded him and picked him apart. The problem with nids and screening units is, we have to move them. 18" dev range or hormies. In a tourney setting time is a big factor.
"That Eldar" is a ton of dark reapers and tempest launchers. Good luck. That specific unit is so brokenly OP it's ridiculous. I have 2x hive guard in my army to deal with them, personally. Hide behind LOS and shoot the reapers. It'll be you versus their tempest launchers.
The spam meta in this edition has me almost thinking of making a Kronos army which is a lot of chaff and a billion freaking hive guards. Tank up in the center and just drop freaking bombs.
Although I never bought that many hive guards in the past, so this requires significant spend.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My 2k list in its current form; Double Battalion
A guy today walked up and gave me 30 Painted OOP genestealers giving me 80+ now. I was wondering if anyone has tried Stealer shock. It is a army that just runs forward and hit's things.
With Kraken being the best Genestealer Fleet. How would you fill out they rest of the points?
Is Genestealer shock viable?
Example below has the Swarmlord and one brood-lord. Taking two brood-lords instead of Swarmy to free up points fore back field shooting. A Mal would help with for going second with -1.
How would you fill out they rest of the points in the example below?
shadowfinder wrote: A guy today walked up and gave me 30 Painted OOP genestealers giving me 80+ now. I was wondering if anyone has tried Stealer shock. It is a army that just runs forward and hit's things.
With Kraken being the best Genestealer Fleet. How would you fill out they rest of the points?
Is Genestealer shock viable?
Example below has the Swarmlord and one brood-lord. Taking two brood-lords instead of Swarmy to free up points fore back field shooting. A Mal would help with for going second with -1.
How would you fill out they rest of the points in the example below?
80 Stealers? Jealous! Seconded on the addition of a Malanthrope. Not sure you need 2, just be smart about positioning and trail as many as necessary back to get as much as possible in its bubble. Metabolic Overdrive strat on the Mal will help as well
I think if you want to go stealer shock, you should just maximize GS, with 1 malanthrope, 1-2 zoe, and possibly swarmlord. My theory after ~30 games with 40 GS is that running 80+ would simply be too many bodies for most armies to shut down. All enemy AT is wasted (outside of swarmlord).
You would probably lose badly to a 4 fire raptor Guilleman list, but if enough GS survived 2 turns, you could either charge the hovering fliers, or Guilleman would be exposed.
HivefleetSkorpios wrote: I'm going against "that Eldar" next week, please help me come up a good list for that :(
If its a timed ITC mission good luck. If its just a normal game, take Kronos for sure. WLT on flyrant and DS him next to all his pyskers. Neurothropes to get extra deny. Take a swarm of stuff. Watch out for DS interrupt, if you can DS out of LoS of his farseerer to deny this.
-1 aura is a must from malan or venom. And then spam termies and GS i would say. Add a little Antitank (he only had one tank).
In a list like that, you might want to be something other than Kraken. Kraken's benefit of double advance roll doesn't scale across a bunch of squads of GS. You might be better served with a 6+ army wide feel no pain. Right there, it's an extra ~14 stealers. If you're choking someone with bodies, that trait basically allows you to fit more models into your army. Catalyst can only be placed on one unit.
Or, you could go Jormungandr, and make yourself some 3+ genestealers. 80 3+ bodies would be incredibly difficult to deal with. Additionally, the tunnel stratagem would allow you to maximize a Trygon and deep strike 2 squads of GS reliably.
In all honesty, i feel pretty good taking my all-comers Tyranids list against an 80 Genestealer list.
HivefleetSkorpios wrote: I'm going against "that Eldar" next week, please help me come up a good list for that :(
If its a timed ITC mission good luck. If its just a normal game, take Kronos for sure. WLT on flyrant and DS him next to all his pyskers. Neurothropes to get extra deny. Take a swarm of stuff. Watch out for DS interrupt, if you can DS out of LoS of his farseerer to deny this.
-1 aura is a must from malan or venom. And then spam termies and GS i would say. Add a little Antitank (he only had one tank).
My understanding is that this does not affect dark reapers.
Marmatag wrote: In a list like that, you might want to be something other than Kraken. Kraken's benefit of double advance roll doesn't scale across a bunch of squads of GS. You might be better served with a 6+ army wide feel no pain. Right there, it's an extra ~14 stealers. If you're choking someone with bodies, that trait basically allows you to fit more models into your army. Catalyst can only be placed on one unit.
Or, you could go Jormungandr, and make yourself some 3+ genestealers. 80 3+ bodies would be incredibly difficult to deal with. Additionally, the tunnel stratagem would allow you to maximize a Trygon and deep strike 2 squads of GS reliably.
In all honesty, i feel pretty good taking my all-comers Tyranids list against an 80 Genestealer list.
HivefleetSkorpios wrote: I'm going against "that Eldar" next week, please help me come up a good list for that :(
If its a timed ITC mission good luck. If its just a normal game, take Kronos for sure. WLT on flyrant and DS him next to all his pyskers. Neurothropes to get extra deny. Take a swarm of stuff. Watch out for DS interrupt, if you can DS out of LoS of his farseerer to deny this.
-1 aura is a must from malan or venom. And then spam termies and GS i would say. Add a little Antitank (he only had one tank).
My understanding is that this does not affect dark reapers.
I think if you're going to take more than 60 GS, you need 100+. If you're going to unbalance your list with 80 GS, you've really gotta accept that you're playing a rock-paper-scissors list and fully commit to it.
That being said, kraken is still the best. You need to be able to use any screening units as springboards to minimize the damage on your foremost stealer units. You're absolutely not wrong about the 3+ being super durable, but you wont be assaulting till turn 3-4 without advancing. For Leviathan, the 6+++ does very little for multi-damage weapons (Reapers primarily), and you give up both the double advance AND the fall back+charge.
You can do 2 neurothropes, swarmlord, malanthrope and 114 GS (6x19) at 1948 with 9 CP. 5 Neurothropes (lol smite nerf :(), Malanthrope, 114 GS and 9 rippers at 1957 to get 12 CP. 3 Neurothropes, Malanthrope, 114 GS, and 30 dev gants at 1958 (Hard to imagine the dev gants get shot over the GS, and if they do... 8 pts a model is cheaper than 12 pts a model?). Basic idea is you kraken double advance 1 GS unit, metabolic overdrive another (Pref the one you catalyst). If you have Swarmlord you throw a third. If you have dev gants you onslaught them to advance and fire. Hopefully you can get 2-3 units of GS into their screen right off the rip. If you can safely 'hug' something and prevent falling back, the game should be basically won vs most enemies. Otherwise you should have cleared their screen and then turn 2 whatever you have left should reliably hit their army. Only issue would be long deployment, as you would probably be forced to use kraken + Swarmlord to reach enemy on far end of board. The lack of flexibility in the list means those kinds of matchups are just going to be butts. Though they should represent a serious minority, and against plenty of armies that alone won't be a death knell (Most armies aren't just IG tanks and infantry to screen).
RE: Dark Reapers - Nothing reduces their ability to hit, period. They always hit on 3s.
Marmatag wrote: In a list like that, you might want to be something other than Kraken. Kraken's benefit of double advance roll doesn't scale across a bunch of squads of GS. You might be better served with a 6+ army wide feel no pain. Right there, it's an extra ~14 stealers. If you're choking someone with bodies, that trait basically allows you to fit more models into your army. Catalyst can only be placed on one unit.
Or, you could go Jormungandr, and make yourself some 3+ genestealers. 80 3+ bodies would be incredibly difficult to deal with. Additionally, the tunnel stratagem would allow you to maximize a Trygon and deep strike 2 squads of GS reliably.
In all honesty, i feel pretty good taking my all-comers Tyranids list against an 80 Genestealer list.
Whats your TAC list your so confident in.?
Going first with this list you are getting hit pretty hard with a second wavy coming hot if need be.. Also in the ITC objectives game having that many troops spread out are going to make for a hard time shifting things.
If there is ruins and ITC rules with line of sight blocking the lower floor.. I should be able to hide from shooting pretty well.
Also i can drop swarmy and pod to get a lot of shooting and back field support.
Levi and jorm are good as well but speed/mobility is more important in the ITC mission every turn.
With jorm you have to take Raveners to get two Stealers broods in one drop. A trygon can't do that. Also i have to spend command points to get forward synapses with them. also you have to wait tell turn 2 to make sure an attack makes it or risk losing your 3+ save.
Levi I would have to play test and swarmy would have to be a must take to make work. Getting a first turn charge is a must to tie up things.
Marmatag wrote: I'm not a fan of exaggerated monospam lists anyway. Your trick works or it doesn't. It works for dark reapers because they're broken.
I agree. But I do think it would work against a good number of lists, and with a little matchup luck, could win a 5/7 game tournament. I mean, green tide works, it's just not what most people want to play and its a struggle to get through more than 3-4 turns with 200 models.
Marmatag wrote: I'm not a fan of exaggerated monospam lists anyway. Your trick works or it doesn't. It works for dark reapers because they're broken.
I agree. But I do think it would work against a good number of lists, and with a little matchup luck, could win a 5/7 game tournament. I mean, green tide works, it's just not what most people want to play and its a struggle to get through more than 3-4 turns with 200 models.
I don't normally spam units. But like I said someone gave me 30 fully painted models give me 80+ seams like a waist not to take them for a spin at lest once. I love the idea of a lot of stealers popping up out of the ground as the tyranids decend to the ground.
LOL
I think a lot of list will have isuues with 80 plus models that move that fast in the ITC format.
Is it the best list no. But it should be fun. It shouldn't be hard to move that many models in a timed event.
Marmatag wrote: I'm not a fan of exaggerated monospam lists anyway. Your trick works or it doesn't. It works for dark reapers because they're broken.
I agree. But I do think it would work against a good number of lists, and with a little matchup luck, could win a 5/7 game tournament. I mean, green tide works, it's just not what most people want to play and its a struggle to get through more than 3-4 turns with 200 models.
I don't normally spam units. But like I said someone gave me 30 fully painted models give me 80+ seams like a waist not to take them for a spin at lest once. I love the idea of a lot of stealers popping up out of the ground as the tyranids decend to the ground.
LOL
I think a lot of list will have isuues with 80 plus models that move that fast in the ITC format.
Is it the best list no. But it should be fun. It shouldn't be hard to move that many models in a timed event.
My list is just about 150 models, I am generally hauling ass to finish round 5 in 3 hrs.
Marmatag wrote: In a list like that, you might want to be something other than Kraken. Kraken's benefit of double advance roll doesn't scale across a bunch of squads of GS. You might be better served with a 6+ army wide feel no pain. Right there, it's an extra ~14 stealers. If you're choking someone with bodies, that trait basically allows you to fit more models into your army. Catalyst can only be placed on one unit.
Or, you could go Jormungandr, and make yourself some 3+ genestealers. 80 3+ bodies would be incredibly difficult to deal with. Additionally, the tunnel stratagem would allow you to maximize a Trygon and deep strike 2 squads of GS reliably.
In all honesty, i feel pretty good taking my all-comers Tyranids list against an 80 Genestealer list.
Whats your TAC list your so confident in.?
Going first with this list you are getting hit pretty hard with a second wavy coming hot if need be.. Also in the ITC objectives game having that many troops spread out are going to make for a hard time shifting things.
If there is ruins and ITC rules with line of sight blocking the lower floor.. I should be able to hide from shooting pretty well.
Also i can drop swarmy and pod to get a lot of shooting and back field support.
Levi and jorm are good as well but speed/mobility is more important in the ITC mission every turn.
With jorm you have to take Raveners to get two Stealers broods in one drop. A trygon can't do that. Also i have to spend command points to get forward synapses with them. also you have to wait tell turn 2 to make sure an attack makes it or risk losing your 3+ save.
Levi I would have to play test and swarmy would have to be a must take to make work. Getting a first turn charge is a must to tie up things.
At work so I can't check, but I'm 80% certain that you can get two 'stealer broods in one Trygon drop. I believe the Jorm. strat includes Trygon's, so unless you are saying that the models won't fit withing the 3", I don't see why you couldn't use the Trygon. I think Raveners are better for this particular use, because the Raveners are cheaper and this build wants as many points in 'stealers as it can get. I can't see the Swarmlord working well here, him + pod are a lot of points and you don't really have ways to clear bubble wrap. Deathspitters on a big Ravener unit could help with that, but again, you are putting points into things that are not MORE GENESTEALERS and I think that hurts the build.
For the 80 'stealer build, I would be tempted to run them as Kraken with Malenthrope support and just go for broke with 4+ and -1 to hit. Not try any deep striking, not use any monsters. With careful positioning you could use Venoms and Neurothropes instead of the Malenthropes, but I think the Mal's are better in this case. 3 of them comes out similar in cost to Swarmy plus a pod, and it helps the choke them with bodies concept a lot more.
Honestly, if you really want to just saturate the board, Horma's are stupid cheap now. 6+++ from the Hive Fleet with Mal's behind them, you can easily get 200+ models on the table.
Marmatag wrote: In a list like that, you might want to be something other than Kraken. Kraken's benefit of double advance roll doesn't scale across a bunch of squads of GS. You might be better served with a 6+ army wide feel no pain. Right there, it's an extra ~14 stealers. If you're choking someone with bodies, that trait basically allows you to fit more models into your army. Catalyst can only be placed on one unit.
Or, you could go Jormungandr, and make yourself some 3+ genestealers. 80 3+ bodies would be incredibly difficult to deal with. Additionally, the tunnel stratagem would allow you to maximize a Trygon and deep strike 2 squads of GS reliably.
In all honesty, i feel pretty good taking my all-comers Tyranids list against an 80 Genestealer list.
Whats your TAC list your so confident in.?
Going first with this list you are getting hit pretty hard with a second wavy coming hot if need be.. Also in the ITC objectives game having that many troops spread out are going to make for a hard time shifting things.
If there is ruins and ITC rules with line of sight blocking the lower floor.. I should be able to hide from shooting pretty well.
Also i can drop swarmy and pod to get a lot of shooting and back field support.
Levi and jorm are good as well but speed/mobility is more important in the ITC mission every turn.
With jorm you have to take Raveners to get two Stealers broods in one drop. A trygon can't do that. Also i have to spend command points to get forward synapses with them. also you have to wait tell turn 2 to make sure an attack makes it or risk losing your 3+ save.
Levi I would have to play test and swarmy would have to be a must take to make work. Getting a first turn charge is a must to tie up things.
I posted my list right before the suggestion. Your average tac tyranid list has pretty solid chaff clearing firepower. Unless you built Jorm 3+ stealers, of course, which is part of the reason i tossed it out there as a suggestion.
I mean look, try it, i'm not telling you not to play your list. I'm just telling you - as a Tyranid player - I would not fear this list. I would love to see it in action though, if you do field it, please post batreps!
Marmatag wrote: "That Eldar" is a ton of dark reapers and tempest launchers. Good luck. That specific unit is so brokenly OP it's ridiculous. I have 2x hive guard in my army to deal with them, personally. Hide behind LOS and shoot the reapers. It'll be you versus their tempest launchers.
The spam meta in this edition has me almost thinking of making a Kronos army which is a lot of chaff and a billion freaking hive guards. Tank up in the center and just drop freaking bombs.
Although I never bought that many hive guards in the past, so this requires significant spend.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My 2k list in its current form; Double Battalion
Nice list. Nice Term Bomb. I don't have the models for that, but it looks like good unit. I take it you fly one of the Tyrants close to them when you drop the Tyrgon. You screen the the term's with the hormagants when you drop? Do you split fire the Large Termagant squad as needed.?
Outside of the terms and Tyrants you little shooting. -1 to hit hurts you bad but you are rolling a large bucket of dice. I can see how you are having issues with eldars -1 to hit armies. With their stratagems that make you hit on 6 and other's it is a hard match up. .
Was wondering how you are getting Hive Guard in one man units? They are 3 to 6 man units in matched play.
I've been thinking of doing the same thing. Insane amout of Hgants and Hive Guard with Neurothropes with Kraken for the Hgants and Kronos for HG.
They are my Favorite 2 units, the more i play with HG the more i like them, the same with Hgants, my Tgants dont do anything and i'd rather have Rippers over Tgants, but my Hgants always feel important to when i play them.
I'm thinking about using a Malanthrope and 2 Neurothropes so it cant be shot at over Venomthropes. to make sure my Hive Guard has every chance to stay alive long (with 2 units of Genestealers ofc). 1 to stay back as counter charges tho (did this against a BA Alpha strike assault list and it worked really well). I might not to the Malanthrope, B.c i do love my HT, i might keep him in my list.
I need more games with nids tho to make sure thats what i want to do.
Edit: Spelling
Automatically Appended Next Post: This is my list i'm thinking about (I cant justifier a Malanthrope anymore so i stuck to my HT's)
Its basically the list i run anyways, i just took out my 2 Malwocks and Fex for Hive guard and added 20 more Hgants (I was running 2x20 before) I swap my Genestealers to 3 units instead of 2, so i can have 1 stay back or use Infest nodes etc...
All Kraken (if i was do GT style tournament i would do 1 Kronos and 1 Kraken).
Marmatag wrote: "That Eldar" is a ton of dark reapers and tempest launchers. Good luck. That specific unit is so brokenly OP it's ridiculous. I have 2x hive guard in my army to deal with them, personally. Hide behind LOS and shoot the reapers. It'll be you versus their tempest launchers.
The spam meta in this edition has me almost thinking of making a Kronos army which is a lot of chaff and a billion freaking hive guards. Tank up in the center and just drop freaking bombs.
Although I never bought that many hive guards in the past, so this requires significant spend.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My 2k list in its current form; Double Battalion
Nice list. Nice Term Bomb. I don't have the models for that, but it looks like good unit. I take it you fly one of the Tyrants close to them when you drop the Tyrgon. You screen the the term's with the hormagants when you drop? Do you split fire the Large Termagant squad as needed.?
Outside of the terms and Tyrants you little shooting. -1 to hit hurts you bad but you are rolling a large bucket of dice. I can see how you are having issues with eldars -1 to hit armies. With their stratagems that make you hit on 6 and other's it is a hard match up. .
Was wondering how you are getting Hive Guard in one man units? They are 3 to 6 man units in matched play.
Sorry i meant 1x as in 1 unit of 3. So a total of 6.
There's no good way to get around -1 to hit from range. The good news is i bring 60 hormagants and 40 stealers for this occasion.
To be honest Dark Reaper spam is a tough matchup. The goal is to deal damage with my hive guards to them, and be patient. Reapers are typically castled, and if i can shoot them from outside their LOS i have the advantage.
I am only bringing hive guard because of dark reapers. Reapers are a meta-defining unit right now because they are so brokenly overpowered.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Amishprn86 wrote: All Kraken (if i was do GT style tournament i would do 1 Kronos and 1 Kraken).
If you have points, i would suggest considering dropping the MRC on your HTs and go with double twin devourers for 24x dice per Tyrant. That'll allow you to drop in and throw out 48 dice. Also, HT keep their 3+ BS at their first degrade check. I'm tempted to do this switch in my list, as well. You need chaff clearing dice and this would really help.
You will have to spend at least 1 squad of hormagants screening your hive guard, and i'm not sure you'll be able to screen your stealers with the remaining gaunts, which is a challenge when you have 3 squads. With much of your army trying to stay out of LOS, your tyrants will receive focused fire, too, when they drop in. You might consider splitting your hormagants into 3 squads of 19 since their primary purpose is to protect in the context of this list. With that said, too, termagants make cheaper screens.
Mawlocs seem pretty good against a variety of obnoxious problems. Dark reapers, Bobby G parking lots, anything with lots of crowded units synergizing and blowing me up from afar. In a recent tournament, nearly every list had that clump of stuff sitting in a corner.
If you can gamble on going first, would the sporefield stratagem help against that as well? Drop a full unit of Kraken spores, use the double movement stratagem, and put 9 mortal wounds on the problem of choice. Bubble wrap is always a problem, but if the rest of your list is long range artillery bugs you can force them to deploy awkwardly in the back or get shot up all game moving forward.
Normally I am all about MRC+Dev for tyrants, but I agree with marma in the context of Amish's list. Mainly because he has no termagant bomb, so he needs more shooting. If you have a termagant bomb, then the extra assault potential of the flyrants for stopping enemy fliers and a lot of heavier targets is far too much to give up for 12 ap0 shots.
I prefer the HVC.
Deathspitters are clearly the weakest option.
So it comes to devs of HVC and that depends on your list build and what causes you problems.
I think my next tourney next week, now that I have movement trays, I will spam more units.
I was thinking of Jorm, with
29 hormies in front rank with
19 GS left side
19 GS on right side
Put the malanthrope & Swarmlord in the center of all these.
The hormies charge turn 1, move advance and get catalyst cast on them, pile in and lock up units.
Then move all the GS up for wave two and maybe use swarmlord on one for extra movement (or on the Hormies).
I do like the Idea of the
3+ save, also combo with Catalyst could be great. Problem is they will just shoot the unit without it, and you can't advance if you want to keep that save.
Kronos is there for smite spam and other pyskic heavy armies.
Spoiler:
Quantity Points DS/OB?
Battallion Detachment -Kronos-3CP - Tourney List
HQ Flyrant with Relic-Toxin Sacs, AG, Reaper of Obliterax (lashwhip& Bonesword-7 dmg on a 6 wound), Devourers with Brainleech Worms, The Horror, Catalyst; Warlord: Kronos WLT 1 208 DS Neuronthrope 1 70 OB
Troops
Rippers x3 3 33 DS Rippers x3 3 33 DS Rippers x3 3 33 DS
Battallion Detachment -Jormagundr-3CP - Tourney List HQ Malanthrope 1 140 OB
Swarmlord 1 300 OB
Eihnlazer wrote:Honestly for a small tourney you should go Hormagaunts to tie stuff up and hive guard to wreck with.
Something like:
Kraken Battalion
HT/w wings, devourers, MRC Malanthrope
30 horms 2x rippers
Kronos Supreme Command
3x nuero
6x Hive guard/w impaler
Not sure how many extra points you got after that but its a very solid low points list.
Unfortunately I don't think the tournament allows for more than a single detachment, so a Supreme Command is out of the question. Also unless I am making a mistake somewhere that list is 18 points over.
Timeshadow wrote: I think Kraken stealer shock or the Kronos guidelines are the most effective of your choices but I'd say play what you enjoy playing....that's the greatest thing about our current codex there are very few "wrong" choices.
The main difficulty is my teammate more than codex really. He has Grey Knights and started in 6th/7th-ish so his collection is mostly limited to various Terminators and Dreadknights. Most of the lists he can build with the collection he has tend to cap out around 15-20 models so I'm tasked with bringing bodies to hold down the table.
Odrankt wrote:@N8
Have you looked at Biovores? Run 2 Broodlord and 2 units of 20 Genestealers w/ toxin sacs (why not, might as well make the 6+ to wound a -4 AP and 2 dmg) and then fill the rest of the points with Biovores.
That gives you anti-infantry and basically anti-everything if the Biovores stay around long enough. Jormungadr would probably suit the Biovores more but going Kraken to tie things up isn't a bad idea.
I've considered them, but I only have 3 limits the shenanigans that can be done with them.
Anyway, thank you everyone for the feedback! Here are a couple of the more specific lists I'm toying with at the moment.
List 1: Kronos Gunline (mixed)
Spoiler:
HQ: 1x Neurothrope HQ: 1x Neurothrope
ELITES: 3x Hive Guard with Impaler Cannons ELITES: 3x Hive Guard with Impaler Cannons
HEAVY: 2x Carnifexes with Scything Talons, Heavy Venom Cannon
Had one test game with this one and it did fairly well. The shooting was good but it doesn't have much going for it in melee. Part of me really wants to find room for a Hive Tyrant to take advantage of relic weapons but they are really expensive.
List #2: Kronos Gunline (infantry-oriented)
Spoiler:
HQ: 1x Neurothrope HQ: 1x Neurothrope
ELITES: 6x Hive Guard with Impaler Cannons ELITES: 6x Hive Guard with Impaler Cannons
Haven't tested this one, but I have enough Hive Guard to do it and it should have a scary amount of indirect firepower for 1000 points. It cuts a bit into my screening power though, which could be problematic. Any of the shooting units can be broken up to smaller units if it would be wiser, though having the ability to maximize use of Single Minded Annihilation is appealing.
I've been toying with Hydra a bit the last few weeks and been finding the Endless Swarm stratagem surprisingly effective as a means to get troop units on the opponent's back edge late in the game once most things are dead. The list has enough reinforcement points set aside that any of the units can be respawned and the Spore Field stratagem can be used if needed to blunt deepstrike/infiltrators. It brings the bodies my teammate wants but doesn't have any ranged anti-tank.
I'm also tempted to consider a monster-mash list, but getting sufficient saturation is proving difficult due to the points restriction. The closest I've gotten was a list with 9 Carnifexes (one being Old One Eye) but my teammate requested I not use it as he thought it would put us at too low a body count (which is a fair point). Another thing I'd like to try would be a Jormungandr tunneling list, but again the points limit restricts a lot of what I'd like to do with it...
HQ1: Flying HT /w 2x Twin Devourer; HQ2: Neurothrope Troop1: 29x Horm Troop2: 29x Horm Troop3: 28x Term /w Dev
Heavy: Trygon Elite: 6x Hive Guard
Possible adjustments:
1. With the nerf to smite, i'm thinking of dropping a neurothrope, and some hive guard, to bring a broodlord. GS are already awesome, though, i'm not sure he's worth it. And the hive guard add a unique element to my list.
2. Drop a Flying HT and some hive guard for a Swarmlord. He allows me to infest Stealers for a counter charge, or some other shenanigans like Trygon Stealers + vaulted onslaught termagants. Without LOS blocking terrain he dies immediately, though. I love his utility but hate his cost.
3. Drop a set of devourers on the HT for MRC. I like MRC but i just feel that i'll never get to charge anything meaningful with them, and their ability to kill reapers, and heavy weapon teams is far better with double devourers. An instinctive killer HT /w 24 shots against digestive denialed Reapers should kill 6 of them per turn expected. I'll never get into melee against them or HWT.
I will be playtesting this at a RTT before the GT as well.
Besides that, it's an interesting idea. Let us know how it goes!
You think the +1 AS would be better than rerolling 1's?
Absolutely, how often will you be standing still when half your guns are 18"? You don't do any damage if you're dead, and +1 AS makes a pretty big difference in the amount of damage you can take.
I'm taking the following list to the Third round of the Louisianna State Champ series tomorrow. Its done fairly well in practice, however my opponents weren't using the same armies i'll see at the tourney. All the lists are up now and only a few of them worry me atm.
Battalion 1 kraken
FHT/w Devourers and MST, chameleonic
FHT/w HVC and MST
Swarmlord
@marmatag - We run almost the same list. My 2 cents - MRC over 2x dev. Anyone you're playing that will not get run over anyways will have buffer so you can't land within 18" of the reapers. Literally all they need to do is put guardians 9" away from their reapers and you can't land and shoot them.
On top of that, we have almost no answer to fliers outside of flying HT with MRC, and there are absolutely situations where you cannot ignore them.
As for dropping a neurothrope, even with 4 smites, you still have a pretty good chance to cast all of them. Average on 2d6 is 7, and your 4th smite will be on an 8. Just do your tyrant smites first, and with rerolling 1s, neurothropes have a good shot at 8+. You need 2 neurothropes to have onslaught and catalyst available turn 1. Both of those are game changing powers.
I opt for the brigade and -1 to hit while you opt for the hive guard. I think that is a very tough decision to make, and I'm starting to think I should be using the HG. With onslaught and 36" range, they should also be able to pick up ~4 reapers when they shoot. You could also double tap them. Picking up 4 reapers from 2 squads could cause them to lose more to morale, as well. With dark reapers not giving a gak about -1 to hit, if you're playing into the meta the HG seem like the stronger choice.
You bring the hive guard to combat reapers, you lose -1 to hit and guard artillery chunks your stealers.
You bring -1 to hit and Dark Reapers chunk everything effortlessly.
We have a tool for each scenario but it's really difficult to make a TAC list that includes both.
I went with the Hive Guard because they're more generally applicable in this meta. And, depending on deployment, you can do real damage with them on a good first turn or lucky deployment zones.
I save 28 points by dropping the extra devourer. Adrenal glands! Look under your chair - everyone gets adrenal glands! yayy
This gives you bodies and a sweet Jor Dev gaunt bomb with 1cp 1 Nero to babysit the hive guard with the smaller gaunt brood and the other marches up the field with the Genestealers. This should draw a lot of fire from the "Leet" Gray knights allowing them to do their thing wile you wreck face as well.
Boom, First place with the above list. First round went up againgst Haskal's Blood angels/dark angels combo list. Swarmlord survived the first round of plasma inceptors, but not the second. He did his job though and i got full points except for first blood. The death company managed some lucky saves and managed to kill my entire genestealer unit by activating their fight twice stratagem.
It was looking rough, but once they were gone he couldnt handle the devil bomb + trygon and the 2 flyrants. Biovores did their thing of board control + character sniping.
Second round i went up againgst Adam Spiegals Harlequin list. 3 Hemlocks, and 4 starweavers/w troups, 2 troupe masters. This was a close game and came down to the last turn. My miasma cannon flyrant made alot of saves and forced him to send everything at him. With a glorious death throw, he took out both of the HQ's attacking him, leaving only one hemlock on the table for the harlequins and giving me a perfect score.
Game three had me up againgst Arron Coureville's Blood angels + guard list. I lured him into a bad deployment of his sicaran tanks with swarmlord's redeployment trait and made him waste his first squad of DC on my stealers after they slaughtered a few guardsmen units and dinged up a razorback. The Devilbomb made short work of them and the FHT's came down mostly out of LOS of the sicarans, leaving them with no good targets. I continued to rack up primary points why he was forced out of position. His sanguinary guard came in and charged my Devourer flyrant, but only barely made the charge and failed to do any major damage. Between swarmy (who double moved himself across the board) and the flyrant we diced them up. Mephiston himself made the charge and managed to ding up my flyrant a bit, but two lucky rends forced mephiston to roll 8 FNP rolls which he couldnt quite make taking him out as well.
Tourny was at a cool venue and there were lots of really close games. There were a very good split of lists, with 3 tau and 2 orks players bringing the heat as well. Kind of small showing for eldar though. Had a blast and hope the final round has as good a showing for the state series.
I think this is gonna put me in the #3 spot for overall in the state series but im not sure on the final scorings for all the players yet.
Two 7 Hive Tyrant lists in the top 4 of Caledonian Uprising 2018 before the last round. Let’s hope they can take the #1 spot home. Both have 7 flyrants, other has 3 Mawlocs, the other 4. Then just Mucolids. And Rippers.
The other armies in top 4 are standard pattern Reaper spam, to nobody’s surprise. If the Nids can keep up this is a major, major tournament win that possibly cements Nids as the undisputed top army.
4x Leviathan tyrants with 2 dev and monstrous claws in a supreme command, 2 leviathan tyrants with 4 dev in battalion and one kronos tyrant (warlord, soul hunger) with 4 dev in an outrider detachment with the mucolids. Both the outrider and the battalion have 2 mawlocs for 4 total. 8 mucolids total. 3 units of rippers.
The result is just in Simon Weakley apparently went 100/100 points with the above, against some stiff competition.
Therion wrote: 4x Leviathan tyrants with 2 dev and monstrous claws in a supreme command, 2 leviathan tyrants with 4 dev in battalion and one kronos tyrant (warlord, soul hunger) with 4 dev in an outrider detachment with the mucolids. Both the outrider and the battalion have 2 mawlocs for 4 total. 8 mucolids total. 3 units of rippers.
The result is just in Simon Weakley apparently went 100/100 points with the above, against some stiff competition.
I also won the ITC tournament (3-0) with the list i posted earlier, except i opted for the MRC on my 2 HT instead of double twin-devourers.
Some learnings:
1. The MRC came up big game one, because they enabled me to afford adrenal glands, and to deal damage to fliers. I ended up really needing to fight flyers game one, and they did big work. Thanks TraceOfToxin, was stud advice. Killed a raven on turn 1 with 2x 8" charges, 2 smites, and the 24 total dice. I did have to pay to fight twice with one but it is worth it to never get dakka'd off the table.
2. Chameleonic mutation + catalyst = the Warlord Lives! People were baited into taking kill the warlord / kingslayer with every game and no one killed him. He was dropped to 1 wound in one game, though, although I couldn't manifest any powers due to Culexus. Dropping him to 1 wound is only 2 points on that secondary, which is nice.
3. The new smite rules really hurt the value of neurothropes. I liked being able to cast onslaught and catalyst turn 1. But i needed onslaught a lot less than I needed -1 to hit, that could be provided by a malanthrope. Some restructuring might be required.
4. Hive Guard were underwhelming offensively, although people were scared of them completely. In every game they dictated where my opponent went. They did damage. I didn't face reapers, which was odd because I counted at least 5 lists with reapers (second place had 30 reapers). I will probably either (a) drop a neurothrope for a malanthrope and reduce my hive guard accordingly, or (b) go for the brigade, with venomthropes, and biovores. A single unit of hive guard, i would still recommend, because they will help against many meta things. They also bully objectives very well. I won one game because of these guys. Not because they did any real damage, but because my opponent committed significant energy in killing them, allowing me to control the board and win handsomely in objectives, kills, and actually getting the control all bonus. Or, go battalion x2, and a third detachment with biovores. Anyway, with T5 and 3 wounds a piece, they're surprisingly durable. In my last game i literally deployed them out of cover, as far forward as possible, daring my opponent to attack them. He did and it paid off big time, i curb stomped everything he committed to them, and the squad wasn't even wholly eliminated.
5. Recon is a solid scorer. A lot of people are building lists with denying secondaries in mind, and it's not super hard to get recon. It's 2-3 points easily per game, guaranteed. Old School is also a good one. You will kill a unit every turn. Right there, that's 2 points. You will probably have linebreaker, too, so that's 3. And you get those 3 even if the game ends on turn 2 - not bad. Having this many models on the field, you need to score as much as physically possible on turns 1 and 2. It's almost impossible for you to be tabled, and due to the time constraints, games won't go past turn 3 unless your opponents model count is super tiny.
6. The Trygon did basically nothing outside of delivering the termagants in every game. He either died immediately or was unable to be effective after the devgants shot up their targets. However, the devgants were colossal for me in every game. I don't see how a Tyranid list doesn't run 30 of these bad boys with deep strike. These guys did epic amounts of work in one game, killing a total of 80 chaff models. (Hello, 4 points on secondary, and bullying off of objectives.)
7. I maintain that Kraken is the best hive fleet. Unless flyrant spam, then go with 6+ fnp, but that's an edge case that will get adjusted to if it actually starts showing up at tables fairly easily. There is significant anti-fly in this game. Should that happen and it start to work its way into every meta list, the Swarmlord might be a solid 3rd HQ (FINGERS CROSSED! love this model)
All of my opponents were gracious, nice people. All in all it was a good event. It is incredibly rare for me to play in a tournament where I actually legitimately liked all of my opponents.
Spoletta wrote: Aaand that's it, our flyrants just booked a nice stay in the "March Model Stomping". Well, good thing i didn't like the model.
Agreed that it’s more than likely that both Reapers and Flyrants are getting hammered down hard pretty soon, and for good reason. They stick out like a sore thumb when we take a look at the top placement lists. Therefore the armies based on these probably don’t have a lot of tournament life left.
Good for the Nids is that the codex has strength elsewhere too.
Spoletta wrote: Aaand that's it, our flyrants just booked a nice stay in the "March Model Stomping". Well, good thing i didn't like the model.
Agreed that it’s more than likely that both Reapers and Flyrants are getting hammered down hard pretty soon, and for good reason. They stick out like a sore thumb when we take a look at the top placement lists. Therefore the armies based on these probably don’t have a lot of tournament life left.
Good for the Nids is that the codex has strength elsewhere too.
Well, the Fyrants hard counter the reapers and there was A LOT of reapers.. Simon beat 3 on his way to the top.. its purely anti meta and not that Flyrants are OP.. there are really bad match ups out there but sure, knowing the Americans, they'll cry OP and we'll see points hike
While it is nice to hear 'nids are doing well, part of me is rather irked that the lists shown are basically just the 7th edition Pentyrant lists with the serial numbers filed off. If the Flying Tyrant's do get nerfed, I'd expect the main point of attack would be to force them to take one set of Talons and have only one socket free for weapons (reflecting the model itself).
In any event I'll be doing some more list testing tomorrow. One thing I'm considering is taking that Hydra swarm list and converting it to Kraken with a few tweaks. The original appeal of Hydra was having the option of respawning the Genestealers, but as was pointed out earlier the Endless Swarm stratagem still works with other fleets (just only for gaunts) so it might be work picking up a more useful adaptation in exchange for slightly.
@Timeshadow: I like the basis of that list, but unfortunately I don't have 30 Devourer Termagants.
Eihnlazer wrote: Boom, First place with the above list. First round went up againgst Haskal's Blood angels/dark angels combo list. Swarmlord survived the first round of plasma inceptors, but not the second. He did his job though and i got full points except for first blood. The death company managed some lucky saves and managed to kill my entire genestealer unit by activating their fight twice stratagem.
It was looking rough, but once they were gone he couldnt handle the devil bomb + trygon and the 2 flyrants. Biovores did their thing of board control + character sniping.
Second round i went up againgst Adam Spiegals Harlequin list. This was a close game and came down to the last turn. My miasma cannon flyrant made alot of saves and forced him to send everything at him. With a glorious death throw, he took out both of the HQ's attacking him, leaving only one hemlock on the table for the harlequins and giving me a perfect score.
Game three had me up againgst Arron Coureville's Blood angels + guard list. I lured him into a bad deployment of his sicaran tanks with swarmlord's redeployment trait and made him waste his first squad of DC on my stealers after they slaughtered a few guardsmen units and dinged up a razorback. The Devilbomb made short work of them and the FHT's came down mostly out of LOS of the sicarans, leaving them with no good targets. I continued to rack up primary points why he was forced out of position. His sanguinary guard came in and charged my Devourer flyrant, but only barely made the charge and failed to do any major damage. Between swarmy (who double moved himself across the board) and the flyrant we diced them up. Mephiston himself made the charge and managed to ding up my flyrant a bit, but two lucky rends forced mephiston to roll 8 FNP rolls which he couldnt quite make taking him out as well.
Tourny was at a cool venue and there were lots of really close games. There were a very good split of lists, with 3 tau and 2 orks players bringing the heat as well. Kind of small showing for eldar though. Had a blast and hope the final round has as good a showing for the state series.
I think this is gonna put me in the #3 spot for overall in the state series but im not sure on the final scorings for all the players yet.
Kongrats! It is so nice to see all units get love, even the humble kronos fortification. ^_^
Yeah its why I really like my list. None of my opponents were disappointed to play me because I didn't spam anything.
One units of genestealers, one units of devilgaunts, only 2 units of 2 biovores, 2 flyrants (with different main guns), and the sporcyst (which not many people had played againgst).
Its a true TAC tyranid list that did well. I only had first turn on the last game so that wasn't even an issue.
WRT Acid Spray T-fex: I’ve had good results with mine. Seems to occupy a similar niche to Dakkafex, except the latter is more of a hunter/chaser whereas the ASTF is a pretty scary prospect for a static gunline. Pretty good scarecrow for infiltrator type screens, too - but be aware that if you stand still turn one to annihilate some sniper scouts, you may find yourself lacking targets on turn two. You really want it to be firing every turn.
Now, I play a lot of 50 Power quick games on small tables. And I’ve been thinking about adding loads more Zoanthropes to my collection, for psychic barrage. The mere fact of having three units of them and three T-cytes in my list will probably scarecrow opponents away from ultra-compact deployment, even if they never fire it up. And this leads me to a list that came to mind:
Spearhead: Old One Eye and three Screamer-Killers.
Vanguard: Neurothrope and nine Zoanthropes.
It’s tempting to make the Vanguard a Kronos one, to really up the ante on some of the psyker-heavy lists in my meta.
Auxiliary support detachment: Magus (mass hypnosis)
Auxiliary support detachment: platoon commander (warlord with upgrades that generates command points on a 5+)
Both armies could use the same powers, warlord traits, stratagems etc... We played open-war with a simple win/lose/tie system.
Round1: Against full tyranid army with flying hives, neurothropes, 3 mawlocs, 3x full genestealers etc.
This was brutal! Tyranids got first turn. Mawlocs in the face, Hive tyrants and genestealers forward, and we lost two sporocyst turn 1. Tyranids went full attack but then it was our turn and we made a few spores! Wham, killed a mawloc and two hive tyrants in one go! One Genestealer unit got -2 to hit with mass hypnosis and the horror (other two powers got blocked). In the end we only got one sporocyst, 5 biovores and a neurothrope left facing a genestealer unit and a wounded hive tyrant with some neurothropes floating in the background. We played the open war mission that you needed to kill the most strategic points and MC+vehicles+characters count double. We lost 11 sporocyst so no way to win this one... But fun! This Tyranid list ended up winning the tournament BTW.
Round 2: Against magnus + mortarion + guilliman... Jeez...
Hahaha, these 3 guys facing a mortal wound fiesta! But this actually was harder then expected. The mission would random drop the 'relic' at a certain location at the start of turn 3 so we deployed mid field at our own table half. We got first turn and made a big bunch of spores. We made a big mistake and should have used the biovore mines to lock guilliman in place. Guilliman and Magnus did bite the dust but Mortarion could still fly towards the 'relic' but at the very last minute it also got killed and could not remove the rippers from the objective. Mortarion 5+ feel no pain was not a big deal but the ability to put d3 mortal wounds on any unit within 7 inch on a 4+ really removed a lot of mines and made it less effective. Also didn't like his 'beam' attack. With magnus big 'gaze smite' it really paid off to have a kronos sporocyst within 24 inch. So this was a win and a bloody (good) game.
Round 3: played against a space wolf army with 3 dreads+ big wulfen unit and an imperial fist army with a big forgeword flyer. We played the mission that you needed to kill a non-warlord model to get a win. The enemies wanted to choose a devastator sergeant as the target, but I said 'are you sure'. I got indirect biovore shooting and this game could be over in 5 minutes if we seize. Then the made the big flyer the target.
We made a big bubble with neurothrope (target) in the middle and biovores and sporocyst around. Then the dropped two orbital bombardments and killed a lot of biovores. (After the tournament I realised after reading the space marine codex that 'orbital bobmardment' was a stratagem. How did the space wolf player used this?I think the cheated. The also used it wrong, the picked a models base and not a point on the table).
After the killed a bunch of biovores it was impossible to take down their mission target; the big forgeworld flyer. We still took down the dreadnoughts and wulfen but the flyer could just dance around us and in the end find the right spot to take down our target.
With open war missions things could get weird but in the end I got I lot of fun. I really want to give my sporocyst army another chance because it's still a pretty strategic game. You really have to decide how you want to play this game aggressive or defensive and don't forget the mission in the process.
I know it's not a full battle report but i wanted to share some results from my local tournament this past weekend.
The tournament was a 2000 point teams tournament. Teammates were assigned randomly at the start of the event. Each player showed up with 1000 points and your partner for the tournament was assigned before round 1.
My partner and I won the tournament by going 2-0-1
His list was Imp Guard:
9 Bulgryn with a mix of 2+ and 4++ models
9 Bulgryn with a mix of 2+ and 4++ models
Bulgryn body guard with a mask relic to get a 2++
2 priests
1 primaris
2 captains with power fists
My list (6CP):
Kronos Batallion
HQ: Warlord Neurothrope - Psychic Scream, Smite, Kronos Warlord
HQ: Tyranid Prime - deathspitter, boneswords, adrenal glands, Ymgarl Factor
Round 1 - Capture the flag
The table had an obscene amount of blocks LOS terrain in it and our opponents were Chaos Demons & Admech. We went first but the Admech player couldn't do any shooting because of the LOS issues and the demon player was running a blood thirster, 2 keeper of secrets, a demon prince, and a 5th model that never got summoned. We were able to single out the players and wipe out the demons quickly without having to weather any shooting from the admech player and then roll the bulgryns into the admech back line for a win.
Round 2 - 6 objectives but i forget game type name
This was a more open table but the buildings were using the ITC windows on the first floor block LOS rule so i could still bunker up my Guard and Biovores. Our opponents were Mortarion with some berzerkers paired with ravenguard razorback spam and they went first. We dumped everything we could into Morty and he died the on their second turn. My neurothrope almost completely shut down his psychics single handedly between shadows, deny and the kronos stratagem. He actually didn't even attempt anything the second turn because he was low enough that the mortal wounds of a failure would likely kill him. This match ended in a draw as we each only held our own three objectives but we were able to score one more tournament point than them. ripper swarms for the linebreaker!
Round 3 - annihilation VP = point cost of units destroyed or half for below half.
We were back on the obscene LOS board against Grey Knights and another Admech player. They castled in a corner on the same end of the table as my hive guard and biovores instead of picking the opposite corner and immediately saw the writing on the wall. We wound up tabling them.
Second place was Guilliman and ultras with blood angels.
Third place was the Morty team from round 2. They had a stronger first round than us so after the second round draw they were still barely ahead of us on points to get paired against the smurfs/blood angels.
I was really happy with how the army played and it really helped getting paired with a complementary player. The warriors were so-so but they suffered from the same LOS issues that plagued the Admech players we fought. In the second round the unit was able to weather the entire round of razorback/primaris firing and still survive with two venom cannons so that was impressive. I imagine rolling this up to 2000 points would be finding a replacement for the meat shield bulgryns. Likely a spearhead a screamer-killers. I'm not sure what the good tyranid answer is for Morty were I solo. Alternatively i could turn the warriors into a genestealer cult patrol and then just take the bulgryns myself.
Marmatag wrote: I also won the ITC tournament (3-0) with the list i posted earlier, except i opted for the MRC on my 2 HT instead of double twin-devourers.
Some learnings:
1. The MRC came up big game one, because they enabled me to afford adrenal glands, and to deal damage to fliers. I ended up really needing to fight flyers game one, and they did big work. Thanks TraceOfToxin, was stud advice. Killed a raven on turn 1 with 2x 8" charges, 2 smites, and the 24 total dice. I did have to pay to fight twice with one but it is worth it to never get dakka'd off the table.
Agreed. I too observed this in my game. Flyrant with MRC (or Reaper of obliterax ) is a must. I think flyrants are better at 1 melee and 1 ranged, rather than going all or none, especially with Kraken where they can fall back, shoot and rechargre.
2. Chameleonic mutation + catalyst = the Warlord Lives! People were baited into taking kill the warlord / kingslayer with every game and no one killed him. He was dropped to 1 wound in one game, though, although I couldn't manifest any powers due to Culexus. Dropping him to 1 wound is only 2 points on that secondary, which is nice.
Good to know. Will have to try that one. Did you ever use the Regen stratagem on him?
3. The new smite rules really hurt the value of neurothropes. I liked being able to cast onslaught and catalyst turn 1. But i needed onslaught a lot less than I needed -1 to hit, that could be provided by a malanthrope. Some restructuring might be required.
Interesting, even at 4 neuros you are only needing a 8 to cast...Hmm. I definitely agree with the Malantrhope, I think 140 is a little high for a -1 bubble at 3", either increase the bubble to 6" (maybe 12") or drop his points to like 120 i think would be perfect.
4. Hive Guard were underwhelming offensively, although people were scared of them completely. In every game they dictated where my opponent went. They did damage. I didn't face reapers, which was odd because I counted at least 5 lists with reapers (second place had 30 reapers). I will probably either (a) drop a neurothrope for a malanthrope and reduce my hive guard accordingly, or (b) go for the brigade, with venomthropes, and biovores. A single unit of hive guard, i would still recommend, because they will help against many meta things. They also bully objectives very well. I won one game because of these guys. Not because they did any real damage, but because my opponent committed significant energy in killing them, allowing me to control the board and win handsomely in objectives, kills, and actually getting the control all bonus. Or, go battalion x2, and a third detachment with biovores. Anyway, with T5 and 3 wounds a piece, they're surprisingly durable. In my last game i literally deployed them out of cover, as far forward as possible, daring my opponent to attack them. He did and it paid off big time, i curb stomped everything he committed to them, and the squad wasn't even wholly eliminated.
Very interesting obervation. I have only run HG once so far. People are afraid of them and their is something to be said for effecting your opponents mentality and strategy just by the potential threat of a unit, even if they don't do anything. I think a unit of them would be good for anti tank, but no need to take 6 or 9 or 12 like I have seen in some list. I think dropping the neuro and HG to pickup the malanthrope is a good idea.
5. Recon is a solid scorer. A lot of people are building lists with denying secondaries in mind, and it's not super hard to get recon. It's 2-3 points easily per game, guaranteed. Old School is also a good one. You will kill a unit every turn. Right there, that's 2 points. You will probably have linebreaker, too, so that's 3. And you get those 3 even if the game ends on turn 2 - not bad. Having this many models on the field, you need to score as much as physically possible on turns 1 and 2. It's almost impossible for you to be tabled, and due to the time constraints, games won't go past turn 3 unless your opponents model count is super tiny.
Completely agree. My rippers scored table quarters every round in my last 3 game tourney except for 1. Easy points and a must take. ALso agree with old school, I took that one as well. First Blood, Last blood, linebreaker are almost guareneteed with our army. Slay warlord is doable. That leaves one final slot to flex agianst opponents which I usually take Headhunter or big game hunter. A lot of armies I find go MEU rather than big blobs.
6. The Trygon did basically nothing outside of delivering the termagants in every game. He either died immediately or was unable to be effective after the devgants shot up their targets. However, the devgants were colossal for me in every game. I don't see how a Tyranid list doesn't run 30 of these bad boys with deep strike. These guys did epic amounts of work in one game, killing a total of 80 chaff models. (Hello, 4 points on secondary, and bullying off of objectives.)
Same here. only i used genestealers. when i did the gaunt bomb it was a waste because they were already in range anyway with 18" and a 6" move. I might start dropping them and just running my GS up the board. That 9" charge is to hard to get, even with the CP reroll. And if they dont get in they die. Trygon is just an expensive DS ability, I think we can find better use of points elsewhere (also it gives up both headhunter and big game hunter 2ndarys). I have found my trygons underwhelming this edition, becasue they hardly ever get into combat.
7. I maintain that Kraken is the best hive fleet. Unless flyrant spam, then go with 6+ fnp, but that's an edge case that will get adjusted to if it actually starts showing up at tables fairly easily. There is significant anti-fly in this game. Should that happen and it start to work its way into every meta list, the Swarmlord might be a solid 3rd HQ (FINGERS CROSSED! love this model)
Agreed, I have still yet to try Hyrda, Gorgon, Jorm and Kronos. I will run a mixed list of Jorm and Kronos at a local ITC torney this weekend. Going to try and run the GS with Extended carapace and Jorm and not DS them. Going to see how they survive. Overall though out of the fleets I have played, I would put the ones i have played in order as Kraken, Levithain, Behemoth.
Great observations. How did you do with time limits? Did you use movement trays. I rarely get a game past 3 turns in a 2.5 hour match.
I’ve been using 5-man movement trays for all my stealers and termagants and it has noticeably increased the speed of games. Set them all up before the game starts, and your deployments, movements and deepstrikes all go much faster. I went with 5-mans so they could easily move around terrain and bunch up for deepstrikes, while still being able to spread out enough to bubble wrap.
Badablack wrote: I’ve been using 5-man movement trays for all my stealers and termagants and it has noticeably increased the speed of games. Set them all up before the game starts, and your deployments, movements and deepstrikes all go much faster. I went with 5-mans so they could easily move around terrain and bunch up for deepstrikes, while still being able to spread out enough to bubble wrap.
My ork opponent also uses movement trais very nice.
I have some movement trays and am looking to use them. I have 5, 10 and 20 mans. Ill mix and match but hope this speeds up the game.
Question on reacent FAQ (decemeber)
Page 117 – Jormungandr: Tunnel Networks
Change the second sentence to read:
‘If the unit Advances or declares a charge, however, it
loses the benefit of this adaptation until the start of your
next Movement phase.’
Q: When a unit is chosen to make a charge move and [u]fails the charge, do they still count as having charged?/[u] Specifically, cana unit that has failed a charge move be chosen to pile in – andpotentially consolidate – towards the enemy?
A: A unit only counts as having charged if they made a
charge move. If a charge fails, and no models make a
charge move, they do not count as having charged. As
such, they cannot be chosen to fight in the Fight phase
(and so cannot pile in or consolidate.)
So... not trying to stir the pot, just want clarify before I run Jorm list. For purposes of losing the +1 cover save. If I declare a charge, actually roll, and don't get enought to actually continue forward with the pile in and fight, does the unit count as having charged or not?
These 2 Erratas seem to contradict each other. One says when they declare it loses the benefit, the other says if they fail, the don't count as having charged. Anyone shed some light on this.
"declares a charge". Its the Jormungandr rule not a general rule, you declare a charge you lose it.
Edit: B.c the 2nd rule you talked about is a general rule and the Jormungandr rule is a Codex, Codex rules trumps BRB rules, its an extra detail to the rule that changes it, so you follow the extra rule from your codex.
Hey all, I have a tournament this weekend (not the LVO)
and will be bringing GSC/Nids/AM. I am wondering is their anything in this list you would take out or add it to make it better.
- Use Tank Commanders as static gunline as well as being sources to gain CP's on 5+'s to use on stratagems.
- Rattlings are to sniper characters and distraction carnifex (will be giving them +1 in cove).
-Devgaunts clear chaff, Stealers clear chaff, Neophytes are "tax".
-Acolytes will be used to take care of dangerous enemies in CC, Primus grants them better cult ambush and +1 to hit. Magus will cast Mass Hypnosis (stop overwatch, -1 to hit and fights last) to help my CC units charging.
-Flyrants are there to take care of Flyers and have them equipped with MRC and Dspitters.
I personally am not sure about the Flyrants load out but not sure what to "fix". All help is appreciated and I can take out the AM/GSC parts if they re not welcome.
You could drop a squad of ratlings and the two platoon commanders and the toxin sacs on the flyrants to take 3 bare guard squads, turning the vanguard into a battalion. Nets you 2 extra CP and a bunch more chaff. For further CP optimisation, drop a few termagants and take a squad of rippers to make the tyranid det a battalion also. This would give you a lovely amount of command points to use on single minded annihilation/adrenaline surge etc
6. The Trygon did basically nothing outside of delivering the termagants in every game. He either died immediately or was unable to be effective after the devgants shot up their targets. However, the devgants were colossal for me in every game. I don't see how a Tyranid list doesn't run 30 of these bad boys with deep strike. These guys did epic amounts of work in one game, killing a total of 80 chaff models. (Hello, 4 points on secondary, and bullying off of objectives.)
Same here. only i used genestealers. when i did the gaunt bomb it was a waste because they were already in range anyway with 18" and a 6" move. I might start dropping them and just running my GS up the board. That 9" charge is to hard to get, even with the CP reroll. And if they dont get in they die. Trygon is just an expensive DS ability, I think we can find better use of points elsewhere (also it gives up both headhunter and big game hunter 2ndarys). I have found my trygons underwhelming this edition, becasue they hardly ever get into combat.
Trygons do not give up headhunter. They are not characters unless you take them as Trygon Primes... which you should never do unless you plan to give them a relic.
I've been using 2 Trygons in my list and so far they have been super stars. They bring in 25 devgaunts and 19 genestealers. I use the Swarmlord with a double advance to get him close enough to grant the genestealers an extra move, allowing them to charge things BEHIND the screen after the devgaunts make a hole. I also use the double move strat on a Malanthrope to get him within 3" of both Trygons, the Swarmlord and the devgaunts. I also drop a Flyrant near the Malanthrope with Chameleonic Mutation for -2 to be hit.
The large number of threats and the -1 to hit means that the Trygons will always make it to turn 2. I have yet to have a game where my opponents felt that the Trygons were the biggest threats and killed them first. Sometimes the -1 is enough to keep them alive even if they do shoot at them. On turn 2 they're free to go eat something.
C4790M wrote: You could drop a squad of ratlings and the two platoon commanders and the toxin sacs on the flyrants to take 3 bare guard squads, turning the vanguard into a battalion. Nets you 2 extra CP and a bunch more chaff. For further CP optimisation, drop a few termagants and take a squad of rippers to make the tyranid det a battalion also. This would give you a lovely amount of command points to use on single minded annihilation/adrenaline surge etc
Awesome feedback. However, we can only bring 3 Detachments and we are not allowed to use the same detachment more then once. This is why it's 1 Battalion, Vanguard and Patrol.
I was thinking making the GSC a Patrol and using the Nids as a Battalion but not sure what to drop to make that work. Acolytes should be a good CC unit for T7 and below units but might swap them for more Devigaunts or Genestealers.
2. Chameleonic mutation + catalyst = the Warlord Lives! People were baited into taking kill the warlord / kingslayer with every game and no one killed him. He was dropped to 1 wound in one game, though, although I couldn't manifest any powers due to Culexus. Dropping him to 1 wound is only 2 points on that secondary, which is nice.
Good to know. Will have to try that one. Did you ever use the Regen stratagem on him?
No, I never had to, nor did I want to spend the CP. If it was a 3 point heal and not d3 I would have considered it but it's too expensive for potentially only 1 wound. My warlord would have died in the following turns for sure, but the games ended.
3. The new smite rules really hurt the value of neurothropes. I liked being able to cast onslaught and catalyst turn 1. But i needed onslaught a lot less than I needed -1 to hit, that could be provided by a malanthrope. Some restructuring might be required.
Interesting, even at 4 neuros you are only needing a 8 to cast...Hmm. I definitely agree with the Malantrhope, I think 140 is a little high for a -1 bubble at 3", either increase the bubble to 6" (maybe 12") or drop his points to like 120 i think would be perfect.
I just found that I wasn't reliably smiting after the first 2, even rerolling 1s. I'm not going to make a change right away, but I see -1 to hit being more valuable than another smite. But it's not a points equal tradeoff so not sure it's worth it.
4. Hive Guard were underwhelming offensively, although people were scared of them completely. In every game they dictated where my opponent went. They did damage. I didn't face reapers, which was odd because I counted at least 5 lists with reapers (second place had 30 reapers). I will probably either (a) drop a neurothrope for a malanthrope and reduce my hive guard accordingly, or (b) go for the brigade, with venomthropes, and biovores. A single unit of hive guard, i would still recommend, because they will help against many meta things. They also bully objectives very well. I won one game because of these guys. Not because they did any real damage, but because my opponent committed significant energy in killing them, allowing me to control the board and win handsomely in objectives, kills, and actually getting the control all bonus. Or, go battalion x2, and a third detachment with biovores. Anyway, with T5 and 3 wounds a piece, they're surprisingly durable. In my last game i literally deployed them out of cover, as far forward as possible, daring my opponent to attack them. He did and it paid off big time, i curb stomped everything he committed to them, and the squad wasn't even wholly eliminated.
Very interesting obervation. I have only run HG once so far. People are afraid of them and their is something to be said for effecting your opponents mentality and strategy just by the potential threat of a unit, even if they don't do anything. I think a unit of them would be good for anti tank, but no need to take 6 or 9 or 12 like I have seen in some list. I think dropping the neuro and HG to pickup the malanthrope is a good idea.
Yeah, they're threatening. 12 dice coming in at strength 8 isn't something that's easily ignored. You will never win the artillery battle, so they absolutely have diminishing returns. They do a nice job of bullying objective holders. Dropping 3 of them would give me back 144 points. Another option is keeping 2 neuros and adding venomthropes.
5. Recon is a solid scorer. A lot of people are building lists with denying secondaries in mind, and it's not super hard to get recon. It's 2-3 points easily per game, guaranteed. Old School is also a good one. You will kill a unit every turn. Right there, that's 2 points. You will probably have linebreaker, too, so that's 3. And you get those 3 even if the game ends on turn 2 - not bad. Having this many models on the field, you need to score as much as physically possible on turns 1 and 2. It's almost impossible for you to be tabled, and due to the time constraints, games won't go past turn 3 unless your opponents model count is super tiny.
Completely agree. My rippers scored table quarters every round in my last 3 game tourney except for 1. Easy points and a must take. ALso agree with old school, I took that one as well. First Blood, Last blood, linebreaker are almost guareneteed with our army. Slay warlord is doable. That leaves one final slot to flex agianst opponents which I usually take Headhunter or big game hunter. A lot of armies I find go MEU rather than big blobs.
Yep. In a horde Tyranid army Old School & Recon are always 2 you should pick unless the list has a glaring weakness.
Great observations. How did you do with time limits? Did you use movement trays. I rarely get a game past 3 turns in a 2.5 hour match.
I struggle with time limits. I did not get past turn 3. Normally that's not a problem but it does limit your scoring. So yeah you'll score 12-16 points pretty reliably in 2 turns, which is actually solid, but you won't make it to turn 4-5 - making your overall score low. I'm not sure how to deal with this. Because lists that table people will get massive points, and we just aren't built to do this.
I never use movement trays. I spread my guys out in these weird shapes to deny deep strike, and to really take FULL advantage of the pile in & charge move rules. I'm rarely charging from the position of being a blob on the board, usually some kind of funky looking tendril. I typically try to include as many things as i can in a charge unless there's a scary overwatch to disincentivize that.
6. The Trygon did basically nothing outside of delivering the termagants in every game. He either died immediately or was unable to be effective after the devgants shot up their targets. However, the devgants were colossal for me in every game. I don't see how a Tyranid list doesn't run 30 of these bad boys with deep strike. These guys did epic amounts of work in one game, killing a total of 80 chaff models. (Hello, 4 points on secondary, and bullying off of objectives.)
Same here. only i used genestealers. when i did the gaunt bomb it was a waste because they were already in range anyway with 18" and a 6" move. I might start dropping them and just running my GS up the board. That 9" charge is to hard to get, even with the CP reroll. And if they dont get in they die. Trygon is just an expensive DS ability, I think we can find better use of points elsewhere (also it gives up both headhunter and big game hunter 2ndarys). I have found my trygons underwhelming this edition, becasue they hardly ever get into combat.
Trygons do not give up headhunter. They are not characters unless you take them as Trygon Primes... which you should never do unless you plan to give them a relic.
I've been using 2 Trygons in my list and so far they have been super stars. They bring in 25 devgaunts and 19 genestealers. I use the Swarmlord with a double advance to get him close enough to grant the genestealers an extra move, allowing them to charge things BEHIND the screen after the devgaunts make a hole. I also use the double move strat on a Malanthrope to get him within 3" of both Trygons, the Swarmlord and the devgaunts. I also drop a Flyrant near the Malanthrope with Chameleonic Mutation for -2 to be hit.
The large number of threats and the -1 to hit means that the Trygons will always make it to turn 2. I have yet to have a game where my opponents felt that the Trygons were the biggest threats and killed them first. Sometimes the -1 is enough to keep them alive even if they do shoot at them. On turn 2 they're free to go eat something.
6. The Trygon did basically nothing outside of delivering the termagants in every game. He either died immediately or was unable to be effective after the devgants shot up their targets. However, the devgants were colossal for me in every game. I don't see how a Tyranid list doesn't run 30 of these bad boys with deep strike. These guys did epic amounts of work in one game, killing a total of 80 chaff models. (Hello, 4 points on secondary, and bullying off of objectives.)
Same here. only i used genestealers. when i did the gaunt bomb it was a waste because they were already in range anyway with 18" and a 6" move. I might start dropping them and just running my GS up the board. That 9" charge is to hard to get, even with the CP reroll. And if they dont get in they die. Trygon is just an expensive DS ability, I think we can find better use of points elsewhere (also it gives up both headhunter and big game hunter 2ndarys). I have found my trygons underwhelming this edition, becasue they hardly ever get into combat.
Trygons do not give up headhunter. They are not characters unless you take them as Trygon Primes... which you should never do unless you plan to give them a relic.
I've been using 2 Trygons in my list and so far they have been super stars. They bring in 25 devgaunts and 19 genestealers. I use the Swarmlord with a double advance to get him close enough to grant the genestealers an extra move, allowing them to charge things BEHIND the screen after the devgaunts make a hole. I also use the double move strat on a Malanthrope to get him within 3" of both Trygons, the Swarmlord and the devgaunts. I also drop a Flyrant near the Malanthrope with Chameleonic Mutation for -2 to be hit.
The large number of threats and the -1 to hit means that the Trygons will always make it to turn 2. I have yet to have a game where my opponents felt that the Trygons were the biggest threats and killed them first. Sometimes the -1 is enough to keep them alive even if they do shoot at them. On turn 2 they're free to go eat something.
How do you do this? Is the swarm in a pod? I have a hard tile visulising the timing on this. Swarm drops in, he moves the gaunts, and the malanthrope gets the move stratagem?
Well remember on turn one its not hard to just advance the swarmlord forward and remain within 6" of another unit especialy if your kraken. 8" base + 5-6 from advance + 6" bubble.
Youve basically got a genestealer move worth of range for his double move ability. Malanthropes arent worried about the 1/6 chance of suffering a mortal because of their high wounds either so always use MO on it if its not in good position.
Niiai wrote: How do you do this? Is the swarm in a pod? I have a hard tile visulising the timing on this. Swarm drops in, he moves the gaunts, and the malanthrope gets the move stratagem?
The Swarmlord starts on the board, within range of a Malanthrope, and preferrably near LOS blocking terrain near the middle of my deployment.
On turn 1, I use the Kraken strategem to double his advance and move the swarmlord an average of 18". This is plenty of reach to put him in a spot that the Genestealers and Trygon can arrive where at least 1 Genestealer is within 6" of the Swarmlord.
At the same time, I use Metabolic Overdrive (double move) strategem on the Malanthrope to move him an average of 20". With fly, this is more than enough reach to have him sit within 3" of the Swarmlord and be close enough to my 'drop zone' to be within 3" of 2 Trygons if I want.
At the end of the movement phase, I drop in 2 Trygons carrying the Genestealers and Devgaunts. I also drop in the Flyrant either in a place to charge something or behind the Malanthrope for -2 to hit (he has the Kraken relic).
In the shooting phase, I use the Devgaunts to clear screening units. I've used this to easily kill 3 units of Alaitoc Rangers or 3 units of guardsman. Then... AFTER the screen is dead... the swarmlord uses his Hive Commander to have the Genestealers move in the shooting phase. I can optionally use the Kraken strategem here to move them an average of 18". This gets them well into my opponent's deployment zone and close enough to charge lots of things. (Oh and I use catalyst on the Genestealers).
So by the end of the turn, several screening units are dead. Genestealers have killed or locked select units in combat which will heavily limit the amount of shooting I have to endure on turn 2. I also have a Malanthrope with Swarmlord, 2 Trygons, 25 devgaunts and a Flyrant all in a -1 to hit bubble right in front of my opponent's lines. My opponent is forced to expend resources to kill the genestealers first. Then they won't have enough to kill much more than 1 or maybe 2 of my big creatures. On turn 2, the trygons, flryant and swarmlord are close enough to finish what the Genestealers started. The Swarmlord's hive commander continues to do work by throwing the Trygon or Flyrant at hard to reach targets.
Obviously this is the best case scenario and it doesn't always work out that way. But there's enough there to usually pull out a victory. I don't have any yet but I plan to get Meiotic spores to make a 'drop zone' more secure and prevent scouting sentinals or alaitoc rangers from limiting my deep strike areas.
If I wasn't playing entirely in an ITC environment where every board is expected to have 2 LOS blockers in the center then I would not be using Swarmlord.
Amusingly, 12d6 Tempest Launcher shots would only deal an average of 5 wounds to the Swarmlord. He also easily shrugs off Manticores as long as a Malanthrope is near him. I have yet to see him alphaed on turn 1.
Meiotic spores are a must IMO to stop enemy scouts/infiltrators from blocking you from landing. Even then though, genestealers with a swarmlord have an incredible reach. They arrive 9" from infiltrators (which we assume are 12" in front of their deployment zone) and the devgaunts kill this unit. The genestealers then get a 18 to 20 inch boost, putting them right at the edge of the enemy deployment zone. This should be close enough to charge stuff.
Yes, I am aware. My point regarding the tempest launchers is that they will take out your infantry. So unless you kill what you need to kill turn 1, you're in range to get smoked.
I like the Swarmlord. I would like to fit him in my list. Just not sure what I would drop to do it.
Have you played him in an event? how did he do for you against a dark reaper spam list?
I’m sure I read that units only get to advance (and thus use Kraken strat) on Swarmlord extra moves if they advanced in the movement phase. It was an obscure bit of semantics but I recall feeling that it seemed pretty conclusive.
lindsay40k wrote: I’m sure I read that units only get to advance (and thus use Kraken strat) on Swarmlord extra moves if they advanced in the movement phase. It was an obscure bit of semantics but I recall feeling that it seemed pretty conclusive.
If I recall correctly from what I read units that advance add to their movement characteristic. And when you use the move again strat it did not allow you to aadvance but it remembered your speed boost. Makes sence that the swarmlords abilty does the same.
lindsay40k wrote: WRT Acid Spray T-fex: I’ve had good results with mine. Seems to occupy a similar niche to Dakkafex, except the latter is more of a hunter/chaser whereas the ASTF is a pretty scary prospect for a static gunline. Pretty good scarecrow for infiltrator type screens, too - but be aware that if you stand still turn one to annihilate some sniper scouts, you may find yourself lacking targets on turn two. You really want it to be firing every turn.
Now, I play a lot of 50 Power quick games on small tables. And I’ve been thinking about adding loads more Zoanthropes to my collection, for psychic barrage. The mere fact of having three units of them and three T-cytes in my list will probably scarecrow opponents away from ultra-compact deployment, even if they never fire it up. And this leads me to a list that came to mind:
Spearhead: Old One Eye and three Screamer-Killers.
Vanguard: Neurothrope and nine Zoanthropes.
It’s tempting to make the Vanguard a Kronos one, to really up the ante on some of the psyker-heavy lists in my meta.
Spoletta wrote: Those scream killers are there because you like the models or they do perform better than regular fexes for what you have in mind?
Bit of both. They’re literally vintage SK models with modern plastic arms. On a small table, 7” move and 18” plasma is a pretty good match.
I played against a reaper list in a GT early this month. It ended up a tie 27 to 27. I scored a lot on the first 3 turns and he scored a lot on the last 3. The Swarmlord was great for playing the objectives. I hid him in the middle between 2 large pieces of terrain and used him to launch units into his forces while I held onto objectives. Eventually I ran out of units and waa able to take back lost ground with fast units but it was a hard fought game. I don't know how it would have gone without the mobility given to me by the Swarmlord. Deployment was Vanguard so I had a long way to run.
Zimko wrote: I played against a reaper list in a GT early this month. It ended up a tie 27 to 27. I scored a lot on the first 3 turns and he scored a lot on the last 3. The Swarmlord was great for playing the objectives. I hid him in the middle between 2 large pieces of terrain and used him to launch units into his forces while I held onto objectives. Eventually I ran out of units and waa able to take back lost ground with fast units but it was a hard fought game. I don't know how it would have gone without the mobility given to me by the Swarmlord. Deployment was Vanguard so I had a long way to run.
Hmm really interesting.
I've been playing with variations on my list with the Swarmlord in there. He is one of my favorite models.
Do you find that you are vulnerable to deep strikers when you start catapulting units forward? Or do you just use Rippers for that?
Was it just an ITC game mode with the usual secondaries, and progressive scoring? If you wouldn't mind i would be excited to read a detailed batrep.
lindsay40k wrote: I’m sure I read that units only get to advance (and thus use Kraken strat) on Swarmlord extra moves if they advanced in the movement phase. It was an obscure bit of semantics but I recall feeling that it seemed pretty conclusive.
If I recall correctly from what I read units that advance add to their movement characteristic. And when you use the move again strat it did not allow you to aadvance but it remembered your speed boost. Makes sence that the swarmlords abilty does the same.
No that is when you move twice in the same phase.
You advance normally with the Swarmlord's extra move because it happens in a different phase.
The Tyranid FAQ specifically says that you may use Opportunistic Advance with the move granted by the Swarmlord's Hive Commander.
I'm heading to LVO tomorrow so I don't have time for a batrep right now. But for enemy deep strikers, I haven't had a problem yet. I do use 3 units of rippers to fill in all corners of the board where they can fit to score recon and deny deep strikers.
I beat a Commander spam list at that GT because I had first turn and I gave him no where decent to land.
I hope bugs take the W, but with a non spam list so GW doesnt nerfbat something into the depths of the warp. Most lists I have seen are pretty non spam though so we shall see.
Marmatag wrote: The Swarmlord provides obvious utility but don't expect him to live past turn 1.
And scout moves will prevent you from clearing all of the chaff.
You will be eating 12d6 tempest launcher shots and 30 reaper shots turn 1. All of which ignore your Malanthrope.
Committing wholly to alpha will lose you games against meta Eldar or solid betastrike lists. You will also have immense difficulty with fire raptors.
It's a good concept and i like it. There are shortcomings. Although this is true with every Nids list.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Update. I actually really like the Swarmlord to catapault Gaunts forward, while staying out of line of sight.
Force your opponent to spend turn 1 clearing gaunts. Genestealers can come along /w a Trygon and be a turn 2 assault option.
Obviously this depends on your level of terrain. Without significant LOS blockers the Swarmlord is a hard pass for me.
Good points. I Plan to take a mix fleet with a kronos contingent of shooting and my WL to help shut down the pysker phase. Also, i will have 2 flyrants in the list. I have yet to get the SL shot of turn 1, normally by turn 2 or 3 he is dead.
One quick question, does Old One Eye benefit from his own Alpha Leader ability (+1 to hit rolls)? Only reason I ask is that it was pointed out to me during a test game the other night that he is technically a Carnifex unit and is obviously within range of himself, but the stacking of +1 to hit modifiers makes his Berserk Rampage ability rather silly (extra attacks on a 4+ to hit on the charge with Scything Talons, 5+ for Crushing Claws, hitting on a 2+ regardless). The game saw Old One Eye nearly 1-round a Stompa by himself (I used the fight twice stratagem to try to fully finish it off, but left it with 1 wound remaining).
Strat_N8 wrote: One quick question, does Old One Eye benefit from his own Alpha Leader ability (+1 to hit rolls)? Only reason I ask is that it was pointed out to me during a test game the other night that he is technically a Carnifex unit and is obviously within range of himself, but the stacking of +1 to hit modifiers makes his Berserk Rampage ability rather silly (extra attacks on a 4+ to hit on the charge with Scything Talons, 5+ for Crushing Claws, hitting on a 2+ regardless). The game saw Old One Eye nearly 1-round a Stompa by himself (I used the fight twice stratagem to try to fully finish it off, but left it with 1 wound remaining).
IMHO he gets the +1 to hit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: But my math hammer says he just does 10 damage to a Stompa on average.
Marmatag wrote: The Swarmlord provides obvious utility but don't expect him to live past turn 1.
And scout moves will prevent you from clearing all of the chaff.
You will be eating 12d6 tempest launcher shots and 30 reaper shots turn 1. All of which ignore your Malanthrope.
Committing wholly to alpha will lose you games against meta Eldar or solid betastrike lists. You will also have immense difficulty with fire raptors.
It's a good concept and i like it. There are shortcomings. Although this is true with every Nids list.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Update. I actually really like the Swarmlord to catapault Gaunts forward, while staying out of line of sight.
Force your opponent to spend turn 1 clearing gaunts. Genestealers can come along /w a Trygon and be a turn 2 assault option.
Obviously this depends on your level of terrain. Without significant LOS blockers the Swarmlord is a hard pass for me.
Good points. I Plan to take a mix fleet with a kronos contingent of shooting and my WL to help shut down the pysker phase. Also, i will have 2 flyrants in the list. I have yet to get the SL shot of turn 1, normally by turn 2 or 3 he is dead.
The Kronos warlord can be flat out miserable for people to deal with. If I was going down the road of multi-hive fleet, i would definitely be mixing Kronos in.
I've found instinctive killer to be the best warlord trait for a hive tyrant. Especially in the age of spam.
I suppose you could, it is the best unit in the codex.
I was running the idea of 3 Supreme Detachments with all Flyrants, tho 3 different setups for them to match 3 different Fleets, still working it out. Its 10 in my list 3 with HVC's, (tho idk if i really need those).
I dont want to play this list, but i wanted to do Mathhammer and see how it will work out with the list.
I'm pretty sure some folks are running up to 7 Winged Tyrants. But I think it's mostly as a " counter meta". Spamming dark reapers with foreshadowing was making ds impossible, so let's zoom over on wings a f#@! You! up.
Strat_N8 wrote: One quick question, does Old One Eye benefit from his own Alpha Leader ability (+1 to hit rolls)? Only reason I ask is that it was pointed out to me during a test game the other night that he is technically a Carnifex unit and is obviously within range of himself, but the stacking of +1 to hit modifiers makes his Berserk Rampage ability rather silly (extra attacks on a 4+ to hit on the charge with Scything Talons, 5+ for Crushing Claws, hitting on a 2+ regardless). The game saw Old One Eye nearly 1-round a Stompa by himself (I used the fight twice stratagem to try to fully finish it off, but left it with 1 wound remaining).
IMHO he gets the +1 to hit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: But my math hammer says he just does 10 damage to a Stompa on average.
He absolutely gets the +1 to hit. Chaos Lords affect themselves, Synapse Creatures affect themselves, etc.
I suppose you could, it is the best unit in the codex.
I was running the idea of 3 Supreme Detachments with all Flyrants, tho 3 different setups for them to match 3 different Fleets, still working it out. Its 10 in my list 3 with HVC's, (tho idk if i really need those).
I dont want to play this list, but i wanted to do Mathhammer and see how it will work out with the list.
I had a guy at my FLGS run a list of like 9-10 flyrants with kraken, it was surprisingly effective. Especially with the fallback and recharge for flyers.
I don't want to be that guy, and I don't want to buy 7 more flyrants.
It's a definite counter to the current meta of reapers. Tyrant spam was much better before the smite nerf. Now there are serious diminishing returns on a list like that.
Also, with Tau and Dark Eldar getting a codex, that list will probably not be viable. Poison weapons, gigantic guns dealing 3d6 damage... yeah. Flying Hive Tyrants are such big easy targets, when those 2 get their codex, I would not be surprised if this list dies completely.
Also Jormungandr will become one of the worst hive fleets. Marker lights will make a come back and remove cover with ease.
Marmatag wrote: It's a definite counter to the current meta of reapers. Tyrant spam was much better before the smite nerf. Now there are serious diminishing returns on a list like that.
Also, with Tau and Dark Eldar getting a codex, that list will probably not be viable. Poison weapons, gigantic guns dealing 3d6 damage... yeah. Flying Hive Tyrants are such big easy targets, when those 2 get their codex, I would not be surprised if this list dies completely.
Also Jormungandr will become one of the worst hive fleets. Marker lights will make a come back and remove cover with ease.
highly doubt any dark eldar list can withstand the onslaught of 6 deepstriking flyrant, with all those jucy r3 and low T/W veichles, btw 4 flyrants are enough and you have points for 6 hive guards and lot of stuff.
Marmatag wrote: It's a definite counter to the current meta of reapers. Tyrant spam was much better before the smite nerf. Now there are serious diminishing returns on a list like that.
Also, with Tau and Dark Eldar getting a codex, that list will probably not be viable. Poison weapons, gigantic guns dealing 3d6 damage... yeah. Flying Hive Tyrants are such big easy targets, when those 2 get their codex, I would not be surprised if this list dies completely.
Also Jormungandr will become one of the worst hive fleets. Marker lights will make a come back and remove cover with ease.
highly doubt any dark eldar list can withstand the onslaught of 6 deepstriking flyrant, with all those jucy r3 and low T/W veichles, btw 4 flyrants are enough and you have points for 6 hive guards and lot of stuff.
In their current form, you're right. But think about the leap we took with the codex.
Eihnlazer wrote: 6 flying 4 walking, 5 with HVC, 5 with double devourers. All with MRC and toxin sacs.
You can hold some of the kraken ones in reserve or stick em all on the table, depending on who your facing.
The tyrant guard soak up any alpha and you proceed on your way to victory.
IMO - no reason to take any walking tyrants. Give them all wings and just start some on the table. Also - the double dev is better for tyrants - they are pretty effective against armor in CC - plus - smite is great anti tank. It's also cheaper.
Marmatag wrote: It's a definite counter to the current meta of reapers. Tyrant spam was much better before the smite nerf. Now there are serious diminishing returns on a list like that.
Also, with Tau and Dark Eldar getting a codex, that list will probably not be viable. Poison weapons, gigantic guns dealing 3d6 damage... yeah. Flying Hive Tyrants are such big easy targets, when those 2 get their codex, I would not be surprised if this list dies completely.
Also Jormungandr will become one of the worst hive fleets. Marker lights will make a come back and remove cover with ease.
highly doubt any dark eldar list can withstand the onslaught of 6 deepstriking flyrant, with all those jucy r3 and low T/W veichles, btw 4 flyrants are enough and you have points for 6 hive guards and lot of stuff.
In their current form, you're right. But think about the leap we took with the codex.
also with codex rhey will have r3 mostly and fragile veichles that's clear, then sure they will improve a lot.
Well, dont forget DE is SUPPOSE to be Xeno's King of DSing. If they get back those abilities, he who DSing 1st will lose, so if you wait to DS 6 Flyrants (you know 1300pts of stuff) DE will easily kill the rest of your army without needing to DS uits forcing you to DS either some or all your Flyrants, at this point its their world.
Thats if they get back the DS capabilities they used to have.
Im a Nid and DE player, i have over 10k points and been playing both armies for years. I do NOT see the Flyers, Ravager's, Mandrakes, Kabals, Incubi changing in anyway (other than a Stratagem). Hellions, Bikes, Coven will get better for sure.
What is going to help DE the ost is Point changes on Wargear, 1/2 the units will stay the same, but weapons like HeatLances wont be 25pts (S6 Melta gun that is 18") anymore, Blasters wont be 15pts (A worst S8 D3 -4ap that donest have Melta rule.... a Melta gun for 2pts more is much better b.c its D6 or best of 2D6 and not 1D3), Shredder (equal to a SB in damage) wont be 8pts anymore (think about, DE is spending 8pts for "their" SB). A S3 Flamer with AP wont be 13pts anymore, etc..
Literally 20+ pieces of wargear are 2x some 4x the cost of what they should be.
This... this is what will scare Tyranids, DSing units WITH gear, DE will have the same models on the table, but now they will afford the wargear.
Marmatag wrote: It's a definite counter to the current meta of reapers. Tyrant spam was much better before the smite nerf. Now there are serious diminishing returns on a list like that.
Also, with Tau and Dark Eldar getting a codex, that list will probably not be viable. Poison weapons, gigantic guns dealing 3d6 damage... yeah. Flying Hive Tyrants are such big easy targets, when those 2 get their codex, I would not be surprised if this list dies completely.
Also Jormungandr will become one of the worst hive fleets. Marker lights will make a come back and remove cover with ease.
Cover is only part of it. The deepstrike flexibility of Jorm is, in my opinion, it's real strength. The cover is a nice bonus, but I play Jorm because I can deploy in ways that make first turn a waste of time for my opponent and a massive table grab/alpha/beta strike as needed for me.
Amishprn86 wrote: Well, dont forget DE is SUPPOSE to be Xeno's King of DSing. If they get back those abilities, he who DSing 1st will lose, so if you wait to DS 6 Flyrants (you know 1300pts of stuff) DE will easily kill the rest of your army without needing to DS uits forcing you to DS either some or all your Flyrants, at this point its their world.
Thats if they get back the DS capabilities they used to have.
Im a Nid and DE player, i have over 10k points and been playing both armies for years. I do NOT see the Flyers, Ravager's, Mandrakes, Kabals, Incubi changing in anyway (other than a Stratagem). Hellions, Bikes, Coven will get better for sure.
What is going to help DE the ost is Point changes on Wargear, 1/2 the units will stay the same, but weapons like HeatLances wont be 25pts (S6 Melta gun that is 18") anymore, Blasters wont be 15pts (A worst S8 D3 -4ap that donest have Melta rule.... a Melta gun for 2pts more is much better b.c its D6 or best of 2D6 and not 1D3), Shredder (equal to a SB in damage) wont be 8pts anymore (think about, DE is spending 8pts for "their" SB). A S3 Flamer with AP wont be 13pts anymore, etc..
Literally 20+ pieces of wargear are 2x some 4x the cost of what they should be.
This... this is what will scare Tyranids, DSing units WITH gear, DE will have the same models on the table, but now they will afford the wargear.
Marmatag wrote: It's a definite counter to the current meta of reapers. Tyrant spam was much better before the smite nerf. Now there are serious diminishing returns on a list like that.
Also, with Tau and Dark Eldar getting a codex, that list will probably not be viable. Poison weapons, gigantic guns dealing 3d6 damage... yeah. Flying Hive Tyrants are such big easy targets, when those 2 get their codex, I would not be surprised if this list dies completely.
Also Jormungandr will become one of the worst hive fleets. Marker lights will make a come back and remove cover with ease.
Cover is only part of it. The deepstrike flexibility of Jorm is, in my opinion, it's real strength. The cover is a nice bonus, but I play Jorm because I can deploy in ways that make first turn a waste of time for my opponent and a massive table grab/alpha/beta strike as needed for me.
Obviously we all have different tastes, but Jormungandr is at a pretty significant disadvantage against armies that wholly ignore cover. The ability to deep strike stuff is nice, but with the current meta I just don't see it as good enough to merit taking that knowing you're going to lose your +1 save. Especially since everyone has screens, and units that are worth deep striking in most cases already have it. My 2c. We can have different opinions here.
Amishprn86 wrote: You mean like how all SM players are using something like 15-20 Scouts now? lol. Everyone Screens ATM.
They do that just to fill out their troop choices. It's less about screening (scouts aren't great in that role, especially in squads of 5) and more about how much SM players hate tactical marines and intercessors right now
Scouts are more of an anti-deepstrike/infiltrate screen, than an actual screen. They don't stop 40" genestealer moves at all.
You can however take them with the heavy bolters to deal out Mortal wounds with the strat if you want them to be useful, and blood angel melee scouts can actually kill other cheap units pretty well.
Marmatag wrote: It's a definite counter to the current meta of reapers. Tyrant spam was much better before the smite nerf. Now there are serious diminishing returns on a list like that.
Also, with Tau and Dark Eldar getting a codex, that list will probably not be viable. Poison weapons, gigantic guns dealing 3d6 damage... yeah. Flying Hive Tyrants are such big easy targets, when those 2 get their codex, I would not be surprised if this list dies completely.
Also Jormungandr will become one of the worst hive fleets. Marker lights will make a come back and remove cover with ease.
Cover is only part of it. The deepstrike flexibility of Jorm is, in my opinion, it's real strength. The cover is a nice bonus, but I play Jorm because I can deploy in ways that make first turn a waste of time for my opponent and a massive table grab/alpha/beta strike as needed for me.
Obviously we all have different tastes, but Jormungandr is at a pretty significant disadvantage against armies that wholly ignore cover. The ability to deep strike stuff is nice, but with the current meta I just don't see it as good enough to merit taking that knowing you're going to lose your +1 save. Especially since everyone has screens, and units that are worth deep striking in most cases already have it. My 2c. We can have different opinions here.
No doubt. To each their own. I was just pointing out that I have confounded my opponents on many occasions because their lists just can't deal with everything of value either being untargetable characters (neurothropes), out of LoS (hiveguard), rippers to push the boundries on their own deepstrikes And kind of a waste for their first turn shooting, or in my reserves ready to come out with the raveners. Jorm lets me force my opponent to play the way I want them to.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pinecone77 wrote: Has anyone seen what DE are getting? I'm hoping drukari, and Tau will be enough to supress dark reaper blobs.
Necrons have me interested as well. Orks are the natural counter for us, so that should shift our meta, once they get a Codex.
I am really interested to see the Tau sept rules and how they deal with commanders/crisis suits. Commanders need a small price increase crisis need a bit of a price drop IMO.
I am also very interested to see dynasty rules and how/if they change RP to scale better with the size of the game. Necrons could really use the help these days.
Just got back from the tournament with mixed results. We won our first game against a Guard/Tau team, Tied our second game against a double Guard list spamming air-dropped Cyclops demolition vehicles, and brutally lost the last game against my two brothers running Alpha legion 'zekers and pask/tank commander spam (wasn't expecting to win going into it, they built it with my list in mind...).
I ended up settling for the following list after test games with my teammate:
Spoiler:
Kronos Battalion: HQ: Old One Eye HQ: 1x Tyranid Prime with Boneswords/Deathspitter
HEAVY: 3x Carnifexs with Monstrous Scything, Heavy Venom Cannon
He ended up going with Paladin spam so the Warriors and Carnifexes provided threat saturation while Termagants provided screening. The only unit I can really say that under performed during the tournament was the 'fexes, but that was more due to not having the points for Enhanced Senses and they never had an opportunity to get into combat, so they mostly spent the tournament trading pot-shots with Leman Russes at 36''. The Warriors did very well with double tapping and fighting where necessary alongside the Paladins and Old One Eye survived each game without dying, preserving slay the warlord in each game.
Again, many thanks to all who provided feedback during list construction!
Astmeister wrote: But my math hammer says he just does 10 damage to a Stompa on average.
I rolled really well in said test game. The Stompa already had 10 wounds on it from our shooting when Old One Eye charged it. He did 2 mortal wounds with his Immortal Battering Ram and then hit with 7 attacks (generated 2 extras) and wounded with 6. Stompa failed to save any and suffered 18 wounds. Second attack from Adrenal Surge then saw another 9 wounds for a total of 39.
Hey all, currently re-doing my GSC/Nids/AM list and looking for some feedback.
I considering either 3 units of 20 Genestealers or 2 units of 20 Genestealers and 1 unit of 30 Devgaunts. My Nids detachment is Kraken so Genestealersc benefits the most from Kraken but I cannot say no to 90 S4 re-rolling 1s to wound shots.
What would you guys prefer? My HQs are 2 Flyrants as well.
Eihnlazer wrote: For genestealers you either take one unit of 20, or go all in and take 3 squads with a broodlord.
I personally just use one unit of 20. Get my first turn charge, scare the opponent into dealing with them, then win the game with the rest of my army.
That is pretty much what I did this weekend. I don't really think a Broodlord is necessary with Gstealers. i was getting 55 hits on average out of 80. I think the Hive Tyrant is way more situational with it being able to fly, fall back, shoot and charge and cast 2 powers.
However, I still felt like I was lacking reliable CC. I also like the idea of setting up a unit on my deployment line for maximum movement and have the 2nd unit deep striking.
i might bring 2 full units of Gstealers and Devigaunts.
Thing is, this hits 200 on the dot and the units that can be reduced will take effectiveness hits. I haven’t committed on the T-fex yet, but I found one to be fantastic in a team game. I like the idea of the psychic barrage bomb and am reluctant to drop it. Could drop each zoey unit down to minimum, but I like the flexibility of being able to drop three 2D3 Smites after scarecrowing my opponent with the threat of the PB.
Freeing enough to switch the Mucolids to Meiotics would be welcome. I hate having to wait for first turn to drop my screening units. I want to deny landing zones to Bloodletter bombs when I go second,
I do this as well, though I have stopped using the trygon, its just a really expensive taxi. its easier to just saturate the board with GS and gaunts and your opponent has so much to shoot he cant stop you.
I do this as well, though I have stopped using the trygon, its just a really expensive taxi. its easier to just saturate the board with GS and gaunts and your opponent has so much to shoot he cant stop you.
I have a lot of success with my Trygon, but I can understand wanting to swap him oit
Exactly. Trygons are, in a vacuum, probably our hardest hitting model. Which means they force the enemy to shoot them, or suffer the consequences. When being shot, they're tanking damage for the flyrants. Something is going to get shot, no matter what we do.
Okay, thinking about my army theme and the way I was building it, I decided to switch things up and aim for six 50 Power Detachments from six Hive Fleets:
Spoiler:
HF Kraken Battalion - 3CP
Swarmlord
Broodlord
20 Genestealers: Scything Talons, 5 Acid Maws
3 Rippers
3 Rippers
3 Tyrant Guard: Crushing Claws
- Turn one, twenty Genestealers use Kraken stratagem and Swarmlord to bury themselves in the enemy. Turn two, Swarmlord kamikazes onto a tough, high priority target. Rippers doing standard screening and objective tagging.
HF Behemoth Battalion - 3CP
Old One Eye
Neurothrope
30 Hormagaunts: Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
20 Hormagaunts: Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
10 Hormagaunts: Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
3 Screamer-Killers: Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts
- You don’t need me to tell you what OOE and those S-Ks are going to do. 10 Hormagaunts screen something. (Maybe Dakkagaunts are a better choice?) Neurothrope leads fifty Hormagaunts to try to get a decent Brute Force off. I downsized to Neurothrope to maximise my numbers of charge-re-rolling Hormagaunts, and more DTW coverage isn’t anything to complain about. Might give it Norn Crown to tell the S-Ks to shoot straight.
HF Jormungandr Battalion - 3CP
Malanthrope: INSIDIOUS THREAT
Tyranid Prime: Deathspitter, Lash Whip & Bonesword
6 Warriors: Devourer, 3 Deathpsitters, 2 Venom Cannons, Twin Boneswords
6 Warriors: Devourer, 3 Deathspitters, 2 Venom Cannons, Twin Boneswords
3 Warriors: 2 Devourers, Barbed Strangler, Twin Boneswords
3 Pyrovores
Lictor
Trygon
- If there’s a killzone to be crossed and an entrenched enemy watching it, these Warriors and HQs get the short straw. Lictor is a cheap wildcard, I fancied Deathleaper and might still go with it by trading the small Warriors unit for a Ripper Swarm but I’m probably better off with the extra bodies. Malanthrope isn’t an easy Warlord to kill with screen-dodging Mortal Wounds. Trygon delivers Pyrovores.
HF Gorgon Vanguard - 1CP
Neurothrope
3 Zoanthropes
4 Zoanthropes
4 Zoanthropes
3 Tyrannocytes: Deathspitters, Venom Cannons, Barbed Stranglers
Drop in and Psychic Barrage. Or, if the threat of it forced a dispersed deployment, cherry-pick targets for super-Smites. All three Zoanthrope units demand attention: if the larger ones take no casualties, they’ll be double-casting and super-Smiting; if the all remain at minimum strength, it’s another PB. If it’s not a Matched Play game, Lictor will arrive with the PB team and deliver Neurothrope next turn.
HF Leviathan Outriders - 1CP
Flyrant: Miasma Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws
20 Gargoyles
Dimachaeron
3 Shrikes: 2 Deathspitters, Barbed Strangler, Dual Boneswords
3 Meiotic Spores
Carnifex: Devourers, Crushing Claws, Spore Cysts
Hive Crone
More Gargoyles would be better, but I like Shrikes. Plus, they can babysit the Gargs, leaving Flyrant free to be a DS threat, Between Crone, Flyrant, and the bats, I’ve got options for Leviathan Stratagem to Super-charge Dimachaeron. I’ve already got the Carnifex and this is where it fits. Meiotic Spores are our best screening unit, for the same reason Alpha Legion are the best Heretic Astartes.
HF Kronos Spearhead - 1CP
Tervigon: Crushing Claws
30 Termagants: 20 Devourers, 10 Fleshborers
Tyrannofex: Rupture Cannon
3 Biovores
3 Hive Guard: Impaler Cannons
3 Meiotic Spores
Pretty simple firebase. Biovores will spread out, screening corners from outflank-type surprises, and deliberately missing to drop Spore Mines in front of things that can’t go over or around them. Meiotic Spores try to drop within trolling distance of an important Psyker.
No Lords of War, but a Heirophant isn’t out of the question when all’s said and done. Throw in a 10pt Hydra Patrol and it’s all good.
350 power, is like what, a 7000 point game? I honestly can't speak to a game of that size honestly, i've never played anything above 2500. At a game of that size, you must run venomthropes, imho.
Marmatag wrote: 350 power, is like what, a 7000 point game? I honestly can't speak to a game of that size honestly, i've never played anything above 2500. At a game of that size, you must run venomthropes, imho.
No... depends on the army, i can get 3800pts of DE in a 100pl game, 3k points in 100pl for SoB. Then you have DW, GK, and Harlequins that can just barley get 2k if not less.
Has anyone tried running Meiotic Spores in competitive lists? They honestly seem pretty good for taking out especially nasty hard to hurt units that have to die like Dark Reapers, especially if they’re run with Kraken.
They drop before the start so no intercept stratagem shenanigans, and with the double movement stratagem they have a reliable 18” move that can go right over any bubble wrap and drop D3 mortal wounds per spore, and with 2 wounds they probably won’t lose any models from movement damage. At 54 points for 3 they’re a more expensive option to fill out fast attack slots than the Mucolid spores, but will inflict more wounds and are still pretty cheap to fill out brigades.
They’ll definitely die if you don’t get first turn, but dropping them next to long range enemy firepower on board edges will probably force the enemy to dedicate shorter range horde clearing firepower to them and waste unit movement, or even wasting shots from the nasty stuff you needed to not shoot your important guys.
Zimko wrote: I'm going to use them because they deploy before Alaitoc Rangers and Sentinal scouting move. But killing stuff is a nice bonus.
I thought there was a roll of between the spores and the rangers?
Also, on another note. The reason they connect turn 1, is that because of the kraken stratagem?
The wording of the spores is different to most infiltrators, so they go first. Similar to how Nurglings do it, but they go before even our spores. Still, for 54 points a very solid option to give your DSers some guaranteed space, or protect your gunline from enemy DSers.
Zimko wrote: I'm going to use them because they deploy before Alaitoc Rangers and Sentinal scouting move. But killing stuff is a nice bonus.
I thought there was a roll of between the spores and the rangers?
Also, on another note. The reason they connect turn 1, is that because of the kraken stratagem?
The wording on Rangers is 'At the beginning of the game but before the first player turn.' The wording on Mieotic Spores is 'After deployment but before the game begins'. Due to that wording, the spores deploy first because they're before the game while rangers are at 'the beginning' of the game.
Zimko wrote: I'm going to use them because they deploy before Alaitoc Rangers and Sentinal scouting move. But killing stuff is a nice bonus.
I thought there was a roll of between the spores and the rangers?
Also, on another note. The reason they connect turn 1, is that because of the kraken stratagem?
The wording on Rangers is 'At the beginning of the game but before the first player turn.' The wording on Mieotic Spores is 'After deployment but before the game begins'. Due to that wording, the spores deploy first because they're before the game while rangers are at 'the beginning' of the game.
I totally missed that.
And while that is what it says, I have no confidence that is intended.
^ on the other hand, as it is a FW unit, I’m confident we’ll get some use out of it before an update.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Marmatag wrote: 350 power, is like what, a 7000 point game? I honestly can't speak to a game of that size honestly, i've never played anything above 2500. At a game of that size, you must run venomthropes, imho.
Well, I’ve got the Malanthrope squadron in there, plus this is more a collection plan than an army list per se. A bunch of blocks that can quickly build an army list in multiples of 50 power. I would have like to have included VTs (or even another MT), but I just couldn’t squeeze the points out.
Actually, the codex spore mine strategem has the same wording of 'before the game'. So there is codex precedent that it is intended.... or that they're at least consistent in their mistake.
Meiotic Spores are excellent. I've been using them ever since the codex came out, including at LVO. However, I make mine kronos not kraken so that I can shut off psychic powers even if I go second. They're a huge part of my current list.
I desperately need some help from the Hive Mind... I'm facing off again against my nemesis - a Necron player whom I've lost 15 or so matches against in 7ed.
When 8ed came around we had a game where I made a pure shooting army and I amost had him, but I divided my firing in one round and missed one of his flayed ones. Reanimation Protocol made sure they charged me and then won that game as well by tarpitting some key units...
He normally plays with flayed ones, immortals with gauss wpns (and "my will be done") and some serious boxing with scarabs.
Then of course some of the gods and one or two "spiders" and some barges. He has a lot to choose from.
BUT SO DO I.....
I normally figured that I would rather loose on my own design than win with help.... but now I WANT TO CRUSH HIM INTO OBLIVION...... before he gets his own damn codex.
This is the only advantage point I've had since we started playing again in 7ed.. So.... how to hand him his arse?
I also have a lot of models. Started playing in 2ed. then looong break and some soft restart in 5. end 6 ed until we started buying again in 7 ed.
I have close to 100 genestelaer, 60 of hormogaunts and termagaunts. 24 or so of warriors etc etc. I can probably field anything you suggest except hordes of gargoles which I only have 20 or so of.
I'm wondering about going all up very close and personal with two Trygons with 20 genestealers, then drop the swarmlord in so I can charge his units the first turn - each trygon burrowing up seperate turns in order to maximize charge. The only issue is I can't field a broodlord with the stealers, so who knows how long they survive heavy losses with no synapse. Maybe have 12 or so raveners and a Dimachaeron to charge in front. But I'm afraid 2000 points will be up very quicly with this.
He'll be so paranoid about creating any space in his rear with 9" in order to deny me any space to dig up and drop in. Boxing in the front with scarab bastards... 2 inches apart... So I don't know how to maximize this.
So, do you have any "dirty tricks" I can use? Strict rules, but something that is pure evil. Especially against god damned Necrons! I haven't played my codex yet, so I'm going to reread the Hive Fleets and stratagems I can use.
Behemoth or Kraken sounds nice for close up and kill.
But I can do most anything you suggest. I haven't glued my three new venomthropes, I have 9 or 12 zoantropres, 2 exocrines, 2 toxicrenes/malreceptor, 1 Haruspex, 6 or so carnifexes, barbed hierodyle, 1 harpy, a bunch of HT, 4+ broodlords... etc etc (I keep switching up my malreceptor and haruspex, so one or the other) 9 Hive guards, 2-3 lictors.
Yeah, any good points at all? Of course if he rolls up with mostly vehicles then a stealer army may be total bomb anyway, so who knows...
Necrons are one of the worst armies in 8th. A list like Marmatag or mine should really stomp any necron list into the dust, pretty easily.
Key points;
Kraken hive fleet
2 Flyrants with devourers+monstrous rending claws
2 large units of GS 1 large unit of dev gants (Trygon delivery)
2 large units of hormagants
If tailoring for necrons, I'd consider a second dev gant+Trygon, or more flyrants, or more hormagaunts.
You can either fill a brigade for the CP (My style), or go for double battalion.
Basically you deep strike the flyrants if there is the risk of alpha strike. You deep strike the dev gants to obliterate any screen. Learn to properly assault to lock people down so they can't fall back (Basically you position so only 1 model swings, but then your consolidate surrounds an enemy model so it cant fall back. Your next turn you fall back out of combat and charge something else).
Necrons can't field enough bodies or enough shots to effectively deal with us. If you're losing, I'd have to know specifics.
Honestly what you really want is to kill the threats before they can rp. Devilgaunt bombs are basically gauranteed to remove whole swathes of his infantry. I would bring 2 devilgaunt bombs and w flyrants with devourers and rending claws. Fly 1 flyrant up to the drop point for the trygon/devilgaunt on turn 1 and then repeat on turn 2. If he trys to rush into combat or do anything to eliminate the devilgaunts after seeing the sheer devestation of 180 shots on turn 1 then on turn 2 you can move the second tyrant into your new position, drop the second bomb and fall back with the first. I cant see much of his infantry surviving that.
Then biovores/exocrines/flyrants to ruin vehicles and characters.
As a Necron player it is actually quite easy to deal with us. We are gakk at; Horde Armies, CC oriented armies and weapons with S7 or higher but lower wound damage e.g. Dmg 1 rather then dmg 6. We are also quite lackluster at shooting armies with invul saves as it makes our -1 and -2 weapons that little bit more useless.
If I was going up against a seasoned Necron player that was able to make do with what with we have. E.g. Jessica who played at LVO and got into the top 25% w/ Necrons. Then I would mostly bring Genestealers, Flyrants and ways to abuse Mortal wounds.
I wouldn't necessarily bring Gaunts because of their 6+ save and t3. I think Genestealers are the better bet with a 5+ invul, T4 and 4 attacks which mean every Genestealer model should at least kill 2 Necrons warriors.
Even if you deep strike a Flyrant w/ Gaunts your Gaunts won't do as much damage compared to Gstealerd. If your targeting 20 Warriors in cover that's at 3+ save so even though 180 S3 attacks should good against them your only going to be wounds on 5s re-rolling 1s against a 3+ save. While Gstealers will produce 160 S4 -1 attacks which puts Warriors at being wounded on 3+ and taking their saves at 5+ due to no cover bonus in CC.
Flyrants are the best unit to use against Necron Vehicles due to all of them being T6 and having Quantum Shielding which will prevent high damge weapons from inflicting their dmg properly. A Flyrant with Deathspitter and MRC should destroy any Necron Vehicle they can target. Also, by using Kraken you are going through be at least 50% more likely to kill what you charge as you can fall back, shoot and re-charge if the enemy wasn't killed before hand or if they left combat.
If going up against a Necron army that is Vehicle heavy e.g. 2-3 Doomsday Arks, 2 Triarch Stalkers then your better off multi-charging as much as you can so you can prevent our big guns from working and forcing us into a situation we specifically didn't want to be in.
A few Biovores or using Spores on their own would also ruin a Necron players day.
Only issue is that because Necrons are low in numbers they will most likely get 1st turn meaning you should have this idea in mind so you know what to deep strike and where to put things. I would recommend dropping all the Gstealers in terrain and keeping your Flyrants in the sky's until you can comfortably charge Necron Vehicles.
Gonna start my first 40k army, and of course it's gonna be the nids!
I love the big monsters, and would like to center my army around 1 or 2 spear head detachments, with flyrants, tervigons, some gants and trygons, tyrannofex and carnifex in the heavy support. my question now is. Would I win any games with this type of list or do I need a lot more bodies to win games. My group is not competitive but also not totally casual..
Hope you can help. thanks!
You need to invest in a lot of termagants to really make tervigons worth bringing, and they won’t really benefit if you’re just deepstriking them with trygons.
I will skip the tervigons then.
Would it be smart to take one tyrannofex with canon and one with acid spray, they both seem like solid choices but for very different jobs?
also.. Are Maleceptor and zonethropes worth taking?.
Gonna start my first 40k army, and of course it's gonna be the nids!
I love the big monsters, and would like to center my army around 1 or 2 spear head detachments, with flyrants, tervigons, some gants and trygons, tyrannofex and carnifex in the heavy support. my question now is. Would I win any games with this type of list or do I need a lot more bodies to win games. My group is not competitive but also not totally casual..
Hope you can help. thanks!
considering how meta is shaping now (about mass of bodies) suggets you a "moderate" approach with some space for terma/horma/genestealers mass, you might suffer too much anything ds near you of infiltrate, they can easily get a 1st turn charge and shut up most of your army, or at least try use kraken you can then fall back and charge but you cant shot, btw you need some bodies for obj missions.
I will skip the tervigons then.
Would it be smart to take one tyrannofex with canon and one with acid spray, they both seem like solid choices but for very different jobs?
also.. Are Maleceptor and zonethropes worth taking?.
cheers
We’re still in new edition & new codices flux, if you’re confident enough with magnets or blu tac to make a T-fex with swappable loadout it will probably be a useful asset. I’m finding Rupturefex extremely useful in larger games where there’s usually a target for six S10 shots, but in smaller games (1-1.5K) it’s not extraordinary for it to have nothing to shoot but sub-Terminator infantry. That acid spray is a formidable scarecrow, though, and I’m pretty sure it’d work in most of my smaller games.
Meta for nids is honestly anything. We have list that can be assault focus, shooty, pysker, Deepstrike, fast, hyrbid, honestly there really isnt a bad unit, so long as you build your list with a plan.
I need an hand here, I´ll participate at a tournament next month and I need to send in my list in a couple of weeks.
The tournament should be CA + ITC style 1750 no LoW, no Named Char, limited FW models and some more limits depending on the lists: no spam, no cherry picking units and so on; is a friendly/competitive tournament in a big convention. We´ll be using the beta rules for smite and char.
My usual Alfastrike list got bummed, so I need an hand to get back some synergy. My usual, and extremely good, list has been so far:
***HQ***
Neuro
***Troops***
7 Terma Flesh+15 Terma Devs ***Heavy Support***
3 Bio
1 Trygon
1 Exocrine
The termagants are Kronos for the kronos stratagems vs psykers and because i can hold a whole flank for at least 2 turns without leaving the deployment zone with my Neuro.
Now without Swarmy I cant really Alfa Strike more than a unit for sure, so I need more board control and press to remove dangerous enemy units.
I was thinking either to add 2 thornbacks with double devourer on the kraken side, or to max the devourers on the termagants, full up the unit size with HG and maybe have a vanilla fex to eat up some fire.
What do you guys think is best?
Overdose wrote: Hi everyone-
Looking to get into Tyranids. I really like Genestealers and the Broodlord models so that’s the part I’d like to focus mainly on.
If I grab the Start Collecting box, what would be the next suggested upgrade to grab?
(Personally not a huge fan of having horde units...)
And which Hive Fleet fits the best for a Genestealer-focused army?
Thanks everyone
Swarmlord in Tyrannocyte (double move) + Trygons as a delivery system?
You say you're not a fan of horde, but I think Genestealer-heavy lists will be exactly that (20-stealer blobs delivered via Trygon tunnel + Swarmlord double-move).
Correct me if wrong? (not much experience in 8th with nids yet).
Overdose wrote: Hi everyone-
Looking to get into Tyranids. I really like Genestealers and the Broodlord models so that’s the part I’d like to focus mainly on.
If I grab the Start Collecting box, what would be the next suggested upgrade to grab?
(Personally not a huge fan of having horde units...)
And which Hive Fleet fits the best for a Genestealer-focused army?
Thanks everyone
I would recommend you buy he Genestealers on their own or to get another start collecting box if you want another Mawloc. You could also try the Space Hulk boxset. It contains 20 Genestealers and a brrodlord. I have seen some people sell that half of the box so shouldn't be to hard to find on Facebook Wargaming trading pages or eBay.
Best Hive Fleet for Genestealer in my opinion would be Kraken or Leviathan.
Kraken let's units Move, Advance and Charge. And while Gstealers already have this rule you get to roll 3 dice instead of 1 for advancing and pick the highest result. You can then spend 1CP to double that Advance dice giving your Gstealers extra movement e.g. Move 8, advance 6, double it via 1 CP and your Gstealers are now moving 20" across the board. Only issue is that you can only use that stratagem once per turn so while 1 unit moves 20 the others will move 14. It also let's you to fall back in the movement phase and charge again so is quite nice if you want to hold things up and charge or multi-charge different units.
Leviathan gives your whole army a 6+ FnP. However, if you cast catalyst your FnP goes to a 5+ as your not allowed stack them. This makes tours Gstealers 5+ invul and 6+ FnP. While you don't get the opportunity to move as much as Kraken and roll roll 3 dice for advancing they do become tankier which might help them last longer in CC and what not.
I also have a question, if we give Gstealers the 4+ invul save can we advance and charge using Kraken even though the unit specifically says it loses this ability.
Odrankt genestealers never get a 4+ invun. If your talking about the +1 armor save from extended carapace you can stack that with the cover save bonus from jormugundyr to have them at 3+ armor save.
They only loose that if they advance or charge,so its not bad if your planning on walking them up the table slowly or deep striking them.
Overdose wrote:And which Hive Fleet fits the best for a Genestealer-focused army?
Kraken is probably the best fleet overall for 'stealers since it plays to their strengths. Hydra is another possibility if you are only interested in spamming Genestealers since it gives them rerolls to hit and their stratagem can respawn slain units from any of the board edges if you set aside the reinforcement points to do so or play PL games. I also like Jormungandr for its deployment flexibility through its stratagem (can use cheaper Raveners/Mawlocs to deepstrike or bring along support through the tunnels), but the adaptation itself isn't quite as helpful for dedicated assault units like Genestealers as it is for shooting or hybrid units.
Also not technically a Hive Fleet, but if you are mainly interested in just Genestealers you might want to look towards the Genestealer Cults.
Overdose wrote: Hi everyone-
Looking to get into Tyranids. I really like Genestealers and the Broodlord models so that’s the part I’d like to focus mainly on.
If I grab the Start Collecting box, what would be the next suggested upgrade to grab?
(Personally not a huge fan of having horde units...)
If you go Kraken or Leviathan I'd probably look towards some of the winged creatures. Kraken's adaptation gets even better with the Fly keyword since such units are able to act normally on the turn they leave combat and Leviathan likes having fly models around to trigger their stratagem and provide mobility. If you go with Jormungandr, I'd look towards any of the snake-body creatures (Raveners, Trygons,Mawlocs, Venomthropes). Venomthropes aren't an especially great unit on their own, but Jormungandr allows them to make use of their combat capabilities by dropping them at the front lines and the deepstrikers appreciate the -1 to hit bubble they provide. The other models provide alternate deployment options and in the case of Mawlocs extra drops you can use to enable more reserves (Mawlocs can start on the table and burrow into reserve).
Odrankt wrote:
I also have a question, if we give Gstealers the 4+ invul save can we advance and charge using Kraken even though the unit specifically says it loses this ability.
Kraken doesn't allow advance and charge, that ability comes either innately (Genestealers/Broodlord) or from Onslaught. If you take the Extended Carapace upgrade (4+ armor), you can't advance and charge with Genestealers unless you put Onslaught on them.
I was thinking either to add 2 thornbacks with double devourer on the kraken side, or to max the devourers on the termagants, full up the unit size with HG and maybe have a vanilla fex to eat up some fire.
What do you guys think is best?
Thornbacks don't get double devourers unfortunately, just Talons + Devourers/Deathspitters or Stranglethorn + Devourers/Deathspitters. I'd probably go ahead and add the rest of the devourers and use whatever points you have left to bring more units for redundancy.
Eihnlazer wrote: Odrankt genestealers never get a 4+ invun. If your talking about the +1 armor save from extended carapace you can stack that with the cover save bonus from jormugundyr to have them at 3+ armor save.
They only loose that if they advance or charge,so its not bad if your planning on walking them up the table slowly or deep striking them.
Ah, your right. I thought it was +1 to invul. Thank you for clearing that up.
If we do give them Extended Carapace is the "Advance and Charge" ability totally debunked or does Onslaught allow you to Advance and Charge? (ignore, N8 already answered this. Much appreciated)
Also, is Extended Carapace w/ Jormungandr better then Leviathan Gstealers? While 3+ save in cover is nice I feel 5+ invul w/ 6+ FnP might be a better option. I suppose it depends on the other units of your army and tactics.
Arkengate wrote: Haven't played in 6 months. I play today, what's meta lately, other than flyrant spam?
Specifically, I'm against deathguard.
I plan on researching more, but, what should I bring? Which strains would be best for this situation?
Coming in the other way, I main CSM, and if my Death Guard were up against bugs I’d be looking to leverage Poxwalkers. I’d use the Stratagem that gives them Character-style protection from being targeted, and the Stratagem that enables them to infect every dead INFANTRY within a short distance, and turn your swarm against you. So either go Nidzilla (which would also mitigate Mortarion’s excellent reaping ability), or else take Kraken Swarmlord and Genestealers (or maybe Hormagaunts) and get a deep insertion force through the cracks and blending those zombies. A smart player won’t rely on the Poxwalker farm, but there’s a lot of ways to build a list around it, and if you can break its back then you may well find a lot of very juicy centres.
In general? Toxin Sacs will be useful. DG survive 33% of unsaved single wound attacks. Make it a 2W hit and you slash that to 11%. Rupturefex is a decent match against their T5 Terminators - though I think they’re Cataphractii, so good luck with those 4++. DTW coverage is probably a smart move, DG have got some decent buff and debuff spells, and a ‘free extra MWs on a 7 to cast’ gimmick. They have a lot of decent DAEMON units, and a recent influx of improved Chaos Daemon allies, so MW generators that ignore invulnerables seem like a good bet. They also have access to hit modifiers, and slow walking speed - so Biovores are a decent call for MW generators as their misses will enable some decent herding (I’m now thinking how that might work with Poxwalker farming). Also Miasma Cannon, which doesn’t care about minuses to hit or high T.
Tyrannofex with Acid Spray is also useful, even if it degrades to strength 6. Doesn't roll to hit, has a -1, and does d3 damage. Solid overall weapon for shooting - to hit mid range armies with feel no pain.
Now that I think about it, lots of biovores against DG could be outstanding. Cut through Daemon and Cataphracti saves, and drop firebreaks around Poxwalkers to cut off their ability to drop a long conga line in an inconvenient direction. Move and shoot something with Miasma active and you’re placing a barrier on anything but a 6.
I played a spore mine heavy list against death guard just the other day. Harpies, Sporocysts, and lots of Biovores. He actually had a pretty strong list against it, having one of the only armies that even gets a save against all the mortal wounds being thrown at him.
While he didn’t take much damage from them, I completely dictated where he was allowed to move and get charges off with masses of mines blocking lanes of traffic. Unfortunately it was a kill points game, for objectives they would easily win the game for me.
The spores themselves can’t hold objectives, but they keep the opponent from getting near objectives too.
He kicked himself for not bringing one, but if the Deathguard guy had used a Lord of Contagion he would have laughed off all the spore mine shenanigans. That plague aura that does mortal wounds at the start of the movement phase just annihilates all of them.
Hey guys, read about the spore-discussion. What do you think about the Meiotic spores? Amazing unit to zone out deepstriker. Each mine does D3 MW on a 2+ and they come in units of 3. Its also sweet that you can deploy them after you know who goes first.
NackaNid wrote: Hey guys, read about the spore-discussion. What do you think about the Meiotic spores? Amazing unit to zone out deepstriker. Each mine does D3 MW on a 2+ and they come in units of 3. Its also sweet that you can deploy them after you know who goes first.
Only Spore i use for my FA, no reason to use others. Great at Bubble wrap / DS deny and pre-game stratagems.
I managed to get 1st place this weekend. I don't run any spore mines. I'm noticing a lot of meta gunlines/shooty armies aren't bothering with deep strike due to all of the denial. Tau and Oblits are the exception due to the 24" range, but that's extremely hard to deny, it's easier just to leverage LOS.
Marmatag wrote: I managed to get 1st place this weekend. I don't run any spore mines. I'm noticing a lot of meta gunlines/shooty armies aren't bothering with deep strike due to all of the denial. Tau and Oblits are the exception due to the 24" range, but that's extremely hard to deny, it's easier just to leverage LOS.
No DA plasmaceptors? Those tend to be nasty and hard to negate.
Marmatag wrote: I managed to get 1st place this weekend. I don't run any spore mines. I'm noticing a lot of meta gunlines/shooty armies aren't bothering with deep strike due to all of the denial. Tau and Oblits are the exception due to the 24" range, but that's extremely hard to deny, it's easier just to leverage LOS.
No DA plasmaceptors? Those tend to be nasty and hard to negate.
Plasma Inceptors are cool but i'm not afraid of them. I would be more worried about their Heavy Bolter counterparts.
And DA have plasma everywhere already. Any DA list at this point has plasma heavy weapons in TAC squads or devastator squads, and on bikes.
My list really only has 3 deep strikers. And 2 of those are deep striking because if you don't DS you'll die turn 1. I would GREATLY prefer to start flying hive tyrants on the table in like half my games, but necessity breeds convention.
The lists seem torn between wanting to be in your face and also wanting to sit & hold objectives. Maybe consider a brigade at 1500 points. You'll have the same overall kind of synergistic list you'd have at 2k... just with less stuff.
I'm having a thought on what is the best TAC loadout for Hive Tyrants. I know for sure I want to keep costs down, so Monstrous Rending Claws are a given. Wings too.
Toxin Sacs for the extra damage boost in CC. But in terms of weapons load out, I am seeing Heavy Venom cannons as a really good option. I am thinking of loading out 3 flying hive tyrants with HVCs + MRCs instead of Devourers + MRCs. Is this a better option?
its 199pts vs 188pts respectively.
What do people think about one set of devourers compared with HVCs?
So i libared all my genestealers from the cardbord storage. I am in a levithan pattern. I am also starting GSC in leviathan colour, but a yellow orange inatead of the red. Now i am finishing these 40 genestealera. Should i paint 20 of them as GSC genestealers (orange claws) to take them with a primus, or keep all 40 as leviatan?
Marmatag wrote: The lists seem torn between wanting to be in your face and also wanting to sit & hold objectives. Maybe consider a brigade at 1500 points. You'll have the same overall kind of synergistic list you'd have at 2k... just with less stuff.
His first list is just our list style with 2x15 terms instead of horms. Considering it's 500 pts less than our lists, I think it's a pretty solid place for him to start and see what he likes, then adjust from there.
Niiai wrote: So i libared all my genestealers from the cardbord storage. I am in a levithan pattern. I am also starting GSC in leviathan colour, but a yellow orange inatead of the red. Now i am finishing these 40 genestealera. Should i paint 20 of them as GSC genestealers (orange claws) to take them with a primus, or keep all 40 as leviatan?
Honestly I can see you wanting both, depending on what else you are running.
I would be inclined to paint them all in Leviathan, then do 20 more, then run them up the board with some Broodlords and Malenthropes, because 60+ 'stealers is crazy fun in the sun. Maybe splash some Hive Guard and Neurothropes, it would be good times.
Marmatag wrote: The lists seem torn between wanting to be in your face and also wanting to sit & hold objectives. Maybe consider a brigade at 1500 points. You'll have the same overall kind of synergistic list you'd have at 2k... just with less stuff.
His first list is just our list style with 2x15 terms instead of horms. Considering it's 500 pts less than our lists, I think it's a pretty solid place for him to start and see what he likes, then adjust from there.
Hormagants win me games with their 6" pile in and 6" consolidate. I took first in a tournament this last weekend because of them being able to shut down 4 shooting units in a pivotal turn 3.
Marmatag wrote: The lists seem torn between wanting to be in your face and also wanting to sit & hold objectives. Maybe consider a brigade at 1500 points. You'll have the same overall kind of synergistic list you'd have at 2k... just with less stuff.
His first list is just our list style with 2x15 terms instead of horms. Considering it's 500 pts less than our lists, I think it's a pretty solid place for him to start and see what he likes, then adjust from there.
Hormagants win me games with their 6" pile in and 6" consolidate. I took first in a tournament this last weekend because of them being able to shut down 4 shooting units in a pivotal turn 3.
Preaching to the choir.
I'm just saying, your critique was that his lists were mixed between forward and back, while I didn't see it that way at all. To me, it looks like he has the same strategy as us. Just short a quarter of an army.
500 pts is a huge difference, if you were to trim 500 pts off your list, where would you start?
Looks like list 2 is probably the best place to start. My original thoughts with the termagants was to use them to 'fill the space' between my board edge and my stealers to prevent people trying to deepstrike behind my line and divide my force (as well as capping any objectives in my half of the board). Perhaps more assault pressure is better though - I could easily swap the gants for hormies. If I did that, would you recommend swapping the 2nd detachment from Kronos to something else? (Kraken/other?), or keep Kronos to shut down psychic powers that might ruin my day/improve the return on the Hive Guard?
My Flyrants are magnetised, so any weapon loadout is possible. The heavy venom cannon always feels a bit naf when I use it - usually only putting out 1-2 hits and only 1 wound going through. I feel like I'm better off going in with claws for anti tank then trying to shoot them.
Wilson wrote: I'm having a thought on what is the best TAC loadout for Hive Tyrants. I know for sure I want to keep costs down, so Monstrous Rending Claws are a given. Wings too.
Toxin Sacs for the extra damage boost in CC. But in terms of weapons load out, I am seeing Heavy Venom cannons as a really good option. I am thinking of loading out 3 flying hive tyrants with HVCs + MRCs instead of Devourers + MRCs. Is this a better option?
its 199pts vs 188pts respectively.
What do people think about one set of devourers compared with HVCs?
I run 2 Flyrants. 1 with MRC and HVC.
The other is warlord, i run 2x Devourers with BLW, and then I take Reaper of Obliterax with Toxins, on a 6 to wound in melee that is 7 damage!
I always take MRC and toxin. There is no other 4 point weapon in the game that does -3AP d3 damage with rerolls to wound and does 4 damage for every 6.
Its honestly a bit overpowered, but since it comes on such an expensive model its not like you can spam it.
The other is warlord, i run 2x Devourers with BLW, and then I take Reaper of Obliterax with Toxins, on a 6 to wound in melee that is 7 damage!
potentially amazing but 4 attacks and only rend 2 makes that a lot more situational. I really see the temptation in taking it though, i might have to give it a go and see! I think i will definitely take 2 with MCR and HVC ( one with Miasma cannon.)
Devourers are okay for whittling away soft units but sometimes you just need a little more AT.
What are the thoughts on keeping 60 points in a list aside for reinforcements? It’s enough for 2x squads for Sporefield, a squad of Genestealers for Call the Brood, or 15 termagants for the Endless Swarm stratagem.
I’m generally always running a brigade so command points aren’t a problem, and it gives plenty of tactical flexibility. You get instant anti-deepstrike/infiltration defense with the spore mines, and the ability to hit a hard to hurt target like -1 dark reapers more easily. The genestealers can pop up next to a Broodlord for quick reinforcements or a surprise Objective Secured squad. And 15 termagants popping up in the enemy zone for a free Behind Enemy Lines never hurts.
Not really sure what crusaders, sanctioned psykers and priests give us that we don’t already do better. Ratlings can fill a niche as we have no snipers however
Standard Farseer
9 wounds
4.5 failed saves, more like 4 after they re-roll one
Probably dead unless they’re Ulthwé and pass a couple of 6+++
Skyrunner Farseer
6.66 wounds
3.33 failed saves, more like 2.8 after they re-roll one
Probably alive with 1W
Eldrad
6.66 wounds
2.22 failed saves, more like 1.6 after they re-roll one
Probably got half his wounds remaining after passing a 6+++
This assumes that your opponent leaves the lynchpin of their castle strategy in plain view of twenty snipers.
I main Chaos, and running the numbers on the sniper options available from Renegades & Heretics (and often facing a Vindicare), I concluded that sniping is a scarecrow that forces minor support characters to keep their heads down, but isn’t a, well, magic bullet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ordering both Ratling units to Take Aim! makes it 15.5 hits, 2.6MW. But then, after seeing your snipers, they take a defensive Warlord Trait and hide behind a wall anyway.
Take thirty and you still probably won’t bring down Eldrad in one round. Ten’s enough to at least make Lieutenants keep hidden, though.
Hey, only wanted to know, what you think of my melee tyrant spam list XD. I know it's not really competitive, but i always played Meleenids since 4the edition Codex =).
Do you think i can hold myself against some stronger armies? Can i improve it, but keep the melee focus and the Tyrants + Hierodule?
It's only 1500 points and consists of the following units:
At the moment i don't know which hivefleet aspect i should take, probably kraken, behemoth or leviathan.
Supreme Command
Kraken Hivefleet Detachment
3x Hive Tyrant with Wings, Adrenal Glands, 2 pairs of Monstrous Scythingtalons
1x Scythed Hierodule
Battalion
Kraken Hivefleet Detachment
2x Hive Tyrant with Wings, Adrenal Glands, 2 pairs of Monstrous Scythingtalons
3x 3 Ripper Swarms
Hmm. Completely forsaking firepower is going to make things an uphill struggle. Likewise the lack of Tyrant Guard to protect the bats from alpha strikes.
The other is warlord, i run 2x Devourers with BLW, and then I take Reaper of Obliterax with Toxins, on a 6 to wound in melee that is 7 damage!
potentially amazing but 4 attacks and only rend 2 makes that a lot more situational. I really see the temptation in taking it though, i might have to give it a go and see! I think i will definitely take 2 with MCR and HVC ( one with Miasma cannon.)
Devourers are okay for whittling away soft units but sometimes you just need a little more AT.
For HVC to shine you need exposed multiwound models, with preferable more than 3 wounds each. On everything else, the devs are better.
I myself prefer devs every time, because the shots are not swingy, the damage output is more reliable, and against single wound models you dont have lost the not carried over damage.
Darksider wrote: I know, but i am trying to reach CC first Round, and it's possible with Kraken Hivefleet.
Btw i have a bit of firepower in the HieroduleXD and also Smite from the Tyrants.
Hm could put all of my guys in the supreme command detachment and buy some Tyrant Guard?
It’d be a pretty extreme list. Very low CP, with presumably one or two CP committed to Kraken stratagem.
I’d give both variants a trial by fire. See which is more viable. I’d expect it to be a list that stands or falls on the enemy’s ability to hit hard targets. If your meta is heavy on hordes, you might just bring a stone to a scissors fight.
Made a small ajustment on my current list and kicked one Tyrant and put in some Gargs with a Crone. Would this be a better list?
Supreme Command
Kraken Hivefleet Detachment
3x Hivetyrant with Wings, Adrenal Glands, 2 Pairs of Monstrous Scythingtalons
1x Scythed Hierodule
Outrider Detachment
Kraken Hivefleet Detachment (or maybe Leviathan to make the Gargs and Crone a little bit more resilient)
1x Hivetyrant with Wings, Adrenal Glands, 2 Pairs of Monstrous Scythingtalons
1x Hivecrone
2x 10 Gargoyles
1495 Points
or i could do this, it's down to 3 Melee Flyrants, but packs some Mawlocs and a bit about 30 Gargs.
Standard Farseer
9 wounds
4.5 failed saves, more like 4 after they re-roll one
Probably dead unless they’re Ulthwé and pass a couple of 6+++
Skyrunner Farseer
6.66 wounds
3.33 failed saves, more like 2.8 after they re-roll one
Probably alive with 1W
Eldrad
6.66 wounds
2.22 failed saves, more like 1.6 after they re-roll one
Probably got half his wounds remaining after passing a 6+++
This assumes that your opponent leaves the lynchpin of their castle strategy in plain view of twenty snipers.
I main Chaos, and running the numbers on the sniper options available from Renegades & Heretics (and often facing a Vindicare), I concluded that sniping is a scarecrow that forces minor support characters to keep their heads down, but isn’t a, well, magic bullet.
X
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ordering both Ratling units to Take Aim! makes it 15.5 hits, 2.6MW. But then, after seeing your snipers, they take a defensive Warlord Trait and hide behind a wall anyway.
Take thirty and you still probably won’t bring down Eldrad in one round. Ten’s enough to at least make Lieutenants keep hidden, though.
Thanks for the numbers looking at them, it looks like shooting Reapers is the way to go. If I could murder 10 to 15 a turn that would make any foe take notice. I guess some test play is called for...
Marmatag wrote: The lists seem torn between wanting to be in your face and also wanting to sit & hold objectives. Maybe consider a brigade at 1500 points. You'll have the same overall kind of synergistic list you'd have at 2k... just with less stuff.
His first list is just our list style with 2x15 terms instead of horms. Considering it's 500 pts less than our lists, I think it's a pretty solid place for him to start and see what he likes, then adjust from there.
Hormagants win me games with their 6" pile in and 6" consolidate. I took first in a tournament this last weekend because of them being able to shut down 4 shooting units in a pivotal turn 3.
Preaching to the choir.
I'm just saying, your critique was that his lists were mixed between forward and back, while I didn't see it that way at all. To me, it looks like he has the same strategy as us. Just short a quarter of an army.
500 pts is a huge difference, if you were to trim 500 pts off your list, where would you start?
That's fair. For me it would be a total restructure because I run double battalion. At 1500 i would run a single battalion with 2 hormagant squads, a genestealer squad, and the rest of my list would be dakka flyrants. I don't think Tyranids function well at lower points.
Can you squeeze a Tyrant Guard unit into the first list by switching the Crone for some Gargoyles? If so, I suspect that one might cope better with losing first turn.
On the other hand, Mawlocs punishing compact deployment and the extra CP of a battalion might work. If you’ve already got the minis - or a friendly opponent who’ll allow proxies for,playtesting - give both a field test!
Badablack wrote: What are the thoughts on keeping 60 points in a list aside for reinforcements? It’s enough for 2x squads for Sporefield, a squad of Genestealers for Call the Brood, or 15 termagants for the Endless Swarm stratagem.
I’m generally always running a brigade so command points aren’t a problem, and it gives plenty of tactical flexibility. You get instant anti-deepstrike/infiltration defense with the spore mines, and the ability to hit a hard to hurt target like -1 dark reapers more easily. The genestealers can pop up next to a Broodlord for quick reinforcements or a surprise Objective Secured squad. And 15 termagants popping up in the enemy zone for a free Behind Enemy Lines never hurts.
Why would you do this when you can just pay for the spore mines, not do reinforcements and save the CP?
With GS just use infestation nodes or tunnels.
OVerall thought, we have enough DS units and taxis, i dont see the point in wasting CP.
Badablack wrote: What are the thoughts on keeping 60 points in a list aside for reinforcements? It’s enough for 2x squads for Sporefield, a squad of Genestealers for Call the Brood, or 15 termagants for the Endless Swarm stratagem.
I’m generally always running a brigade so command points aren’t a problem, and it gives plenty of tactical flexibility. You get instant anti-deepstrike/infiltration defense with the spore mines, and the ability to hit a hard to hurt target like -1 dark reapers more easily. The genestealers can pop up next to a Broodlord for quick reinforcements or a surprise Objective Secured squad. And 15 termagants popping up in the enemy zone for a free Behind Enemy Lines never hurts.
Why would you do this when you can just pay for the spore mines, not do reinforcements and save the CP?
With GS just use infestation nodes or tunnels.
OVerall thought, we have enough DS units and taxis, i dont see the point in wasting CP.
The purpose would be to have a defense against infiltrators and deep strikers. Your own deep strikers do you no good if your opponent gets the first turn and covers half the board or if they have infiltrators (rangers) that can block you from deep striking where you want. The Sporefield strategem allows you to deploy the spore mines before most infiltrators.
It's not a bad idea, however, if you're allowed to us Forgeworld then I'd just use a unit of Meiotic Spores for 54 points. They accomplish the same goal without needing to use CP.
I’d narrow it down to Kraken (for faster movement), Behemoth (for charge Rerolls), or as a wild card Leviathan (for tag team Stratagem). Playtest each one and see which suits you best
lindsay40k wrote: Can you squeeze a Tyrant Guard unit into the first list by switching the Crone for some Gargoyles? If so, I suspect that one might cope better with losing first turn.
On the other hand, Mawlocs punishing compact deployment and the extra CP of a battalion might work. If you’ve already got the minis - or a friendly opponent who’ll allow proxies for,playtesting - give both a field test!
Thanks for your help^^.
Yeah i could witch the crone out for 3x10 Gargs and 3 Tyrant Guard with Scything Talons, then i would have 16 points left =).
I have all the figures for my armylists, i only miss the 3 Tyrant Guard, but mybe i can find some on ebay=).
Do you think that i have a little chance with my meleearmy?
@Darksider - well, the key for any melee army is surviving delivery. Things like deploying in the sky, or with some Tyrant Guard or a Malanthrope, keep you alive. There’s not going to be anything suppressing their firepower on your way in, though, so good luck running the gauntlet! I suspect you’ll find a balance that can yield good results, but it’ll probably take some trial and error and you’ll always find a bad matchup here and there.
I had a 1000 pt tournament on Saturday. I decided to try out more shooty nids than I normally use and I ended up taking 1st of 10 playing ITC Champion missions.
Game 1: vs Tau
His list included a Stormsurge with lots of LOS ignoring missiles, 3 units of 12ish Firewarriors and 3 units of 6 gun drones, 2 units of 2 markerlight drones and some characters that gave buffs (6+ FNP on the firewarriors, extra shots from shooting at half range and 2 characters with makerlights).
Tau are in a rough spot but this guy is a veteran and made it a tough fight.
Setup Deployment Type: Hammer and Anvil
Mission: ITC Champ 1 (6 objectives laid out like an X, 1 in each corner and 2 near the middle)
For Secondaries I chose Headhunter, Reaper and Recon. He chose Gang Busters (Hive Guard), Reaper and Old School.
Turn 1:I get first turn. I move all my genestealers into some ruins where they can't be shot. From there they can reach his lines on turn 2. I use Catalyst on them in case he decides to shoot them with the stormsurge since it has a lot of firepower that ignores LOS. I move up my Hive Guard and give them Onslaught so they can shoot normally. Hive Guard stay sitting in ruins and on an objective the whole game after that. I fired at the Stormsurge and did 8 damage. I used Metabolic Overdrive on a unit of Hormagants (4 died) in order to capture one of his objectives for that turn. They sat 1 inch away from a unit of firewarriors who were sitting on the objective but I had more objective secured near the objective than he did. Those Hormagants obviously died that turn but they did their job of forcing him to waste shots on them. The other unit of Hormagants moved up into some trees but died after 2 full units of Firewarriors shot at them. I didn't expect much from the Hormagants this game. I moved all the biovores onto objectives and fired them at the two units of Firewarriors on his left flank. I had 4 misses and put all 4 spore mines behind a hill where one of his markerlight characters were. With this he had to choose to fire the firewarriors at my Hormagants or to use at least some of them to kill the spore mines before they killed that character. He chose to sacrifice the character. His Stormsurge was tall enough to see my Hiveguard so he fired on them, killing 1. He also fired these missiles that deal mortal wounds to one of my Biovore units... but 1 survived with 2 wounds left and he still held the objective in that corner. I scored Recon with my Hormagants daring yet suicidal move. The Tau are up on kills, earning him 2 points for Primary and 2 points for Reaper. We tie on Objectives giving us each 1 point. He gets 1 for Old School (First Strike)
Score: 2 to 6 Tau
Top Turn 2: As planned, the 4 spore mines blew up one of his characters giving me a headhunter point. My genestealers popped out of the ruins and charged 2 unit of Firewarriors on that same flank. 2 Firewarriors survived... which was a problem. Those 2 were almost certainly going to die to moral and I'd have nothing to keep my opponent from slaughtering the genestealers on his next turn. So I decided to blow 4 command points... I used 3 to fight again to kill those last 2 firewarriors. I then used 1 to Overrun and move the Genestealers behind the hill that my spore mines had just used. The Stormsurge was the only unit that could threaten them but I gave them Catalyst again. Given I only had 6 command points to start, I now only have 1, but using those 4 CP saved the unit. My Hive Guard completely failed on the Stormsurge dealing 0 damage. My neurothropes wiped out a unit of 6 drones that were on his forward objective (smites).
Bottom of 2: Seeing no way to kill the genestealers this turn, the Tau player used his last 12 drones to create a barrier between my genestealers and the stormsurge. He shot everything from the Stormsurge into the genestealers and killed about 5 of them. I still had 11 by this point so they were still deadly. I dominating on kills, giving me 2 points for primary. He did not kill a unit. I held more objectives so I got another 2 for primary, he held 1 giving him 1 point. I got 2 for Reaper and 1 for Headhunter. I did not get Recon.
Score: 9 to 7 Tyranids
Turn 3: My genestealers come from behind the hill and charge one of the units of drones and his 2 buffing characters. Only 3 get into melee with the characters so I don't kill either of them. I easily wipe out the drones though. I use my biovores and hive guard, rerolling 1s, to wipe out the last unit of Fire Warriors, giving me my 3rd point for reaper. Two of the Biovores shoot at the Stormsurge to reduce it to 10 wounds, lowering it's profile. Neurothropes smite and kill both units of Markerlight drones which were on his forward objective. On his turn he manages to wipe out of the Genestealers and kill one more Hive Guard with the Stormsurge, giving him a point for Gang Busters. I get 4 for primary. He gets 2. We both get 1 for Reaper.
Score: 14 to 10 Tyranids
Turns 4-6: My Hive Guard wipe out the last Drone unit. Neurothropes and Biovores manage to deal 10(maybe 11?) mortal wounds to the stormsurge to kill it. The explosion killed both of his buffing characters. By this point he has 1 character remaining. We play it out anyway because the points can matter with 10 players and 3 rounds. I kill the last character on Turn 5 and am able to pick up recon for turn 6.
Final Score: 28 to 12 Tyranids Win!
Game 2: vs AM His list had 3 units of 5 Scions w/ volley guns?(had a lot of shots), 2 units of 5 Plasma Command Squads, 2 Taurox Primes, 3 characters sprinkled here and there and Celestine.
Lots of potential Deep Strikers and deadly firepower. I'll have to deploy carefully.
Setup Deployment Type: Vanguard
Mission: ITC 2 (3 objectives. 1 is in the center. 1 is placed by us in our deployment zones) We both place our objectives behind a hill in our respective corners.
For Secondaries, I chose Kingslayer(Celestine), Headhunter and Behind Enemy Lines. He chose Gang Busters (Hive Guard), Reaper and Recon.
Deployment: I put my Hive Guard behind the hill in the corner where my objective is. I made sure they were within 9" of the corner to leave no room for deep strikers. I put a unit of Biovores on the very corner of my deployment zone as close as possible to his long table edge so hey could move within 12" of it and give me Behind Enemy Lines. I spread out my Hormagants along the deployment zone edge to deny as much area as possible to deep strikers. The Other Biovores and 2 Neurothropes spread out as well to help with this. I put my Genestealers in reserves and placed 3 nodes just behind my Hormagants along my deployment edge. The last node I put back near the Hive Guard to ensure I didn't lose all of them to some lucky charges. My opponent deployed his Taurox Primes, a couple characters and a Scion Squad near his objective.
Turn 1: He got first turn... and he did nothing. I guess he figured I'd come to him or at least move to the middle objective. But I didn't. All I did was move 1 unit of Biovores and 1 unit of Homagants within 12" of his long table edge. They were still spread out to deny deep strikers. I fired my Biovores at a Taurox and did 2 damage and dropped 4 spore mines. I got 1 point for Behind Enemy Lines and we each got a point for holding an objective.
Score: 2 to 1 Tyranids
Top Turn 2: Seeing that I would be perfectly content waiting for him and gaining 2 points per turn to his 1, he decided he'd have to come to me. He Deep Striked everything except a plasma command squad. Celestine, a command squad and 2 scion squads all arrived within the large ruins that were right in front of my deployment zone. The Taurox vehicles moved up as far as they could. One of them had to drive around spore mines so it couldn't get in range to shoot anything. The other Taurox and 1 of the Scion squads shot and a unit of Hormagants in the woods but 1 remained alive. The plasma command squad shot at Biovores and killed 1. Celestine did nothing, perfectly content hiding in the ruins. He figured he could fly into my deployment zone on turn 2 and kill my warlord or dive into the Hive Guard... but he was wrong. At the end of his turn, I used 2 Command Points to keep my lone Hormagant alive from morale, denying him any kills. He picked up Recon and held an objective... but amazingly he did not hold the middle objective.
Bottom Turn 2: My lone Hormagant moved on the middle objective securing it all by his lonesome self for the hive mind. My Genestealers popped out of their hole right next to the ruins all his forces were hiding in. I used smites to kill the plasma command squad. With those dead, Celestine was now the closest target to my Hive Guard and Biovores. They shot her to pieces. She came back and deployed 9+ inches from my other Hormagant unit. A biovore unit that hadn't shot yet put another wound on her. With that I got 2 points for kingslayer and 1 for headhunter. My genestealers failed their charge on the Scions (and a character that came down with them). My Hormagants charged Celestine. They did no damage and lost some bodies but I just wanted to engage her in combat so she would have to fallback and thus not be able to charge on her turn. After all that, I got more kills, held more objectives and accumulated 2 for kingslayer, 1 for headhunter and 1 for Behind Enemy Lines. He got 1 for holding an objective and 1 for recon.
Score: 10 to 3 Tyranids.
Top Turn 3: Tauroxes move closer. Celestine falls back into my deployment zone, right next to my warlord. Scions in the ruins move away from the genestealers towards the objective where my brave lone hormagant stands. The last unit of Plasma command squad arrives near my Biovores that are within 12" of his long table edge. A taurox shoots the genestealers, killing 4 (yay catalyst). The Scions split shoot the genestealers and lone hormagant, killing 4 genes and the horm. The other taurox can't see the genestealer thanks to the ruins so they shoot and kill a biovore. Plasma command squad shoots and kills 2 biovores. Celestine tries to shoot my warlord and does nothing. He then attempts to charge with her, but I point out that you can't charge after falling back, even with fly. So she sits there awaiting her doom. He gets 2 kills(1 biovore unit and hormgant unit), 1 reaper and 1 recon and holds an objective.
Bottom Turn 3: Genestealers move up and eat both scion units and a character giving me 1 for headhunter(forgot to use feeder tendrils... oops). Instead of taking the objective, I use overrun to move the genestealers back into ruins so the Tauroxes couldn't shoot them. Smites and my last to biovores wipe out Celestine giving me 2 more for kingslayer and another for headhunter. Hive Guard severly wounded a Taurox. Hormagants charge the plasma command squad and kill all but 1. I surround him so he can't fallback. We tie on objectives but I win on kills.
Score: 17 to 6 Tyranids
Top Turn 4: The limping Taurox is able to move and see a sliver of my genestealers. The full health Taurox with Scions inside move onto the middle objective. A character moves up to shoot my genestealers. Limping Taurox and a character fire on the genestealers but 6 survive. The other Taurox finishes off one of my Biovore units. Hormagants finish consuming the command squad. He scores a kill and an objective. Does not get recon though.
Bottom Turn 4: My last biovore finishes up the limping Taurox. Hive Guard and smites kill the Taurox on the objective. The scions pile out. Genestealers charge a character and kill it for headhunter. At this point he concedes and we talk thru the last 2 turns.
Final Score: 24 to 12 Tyranids
Game 3: vs Daemons.
His list had a unit of 22 Bloodletters, a Bloodletter character, a unit of 20some Pink Horrors with enough reinforcement points to spawn 8 blues and 8 brims, 2 small units of brims, a unit of 8 of these flying stingray things, an 8 wound character riding on a chariot pulled by those stingrays, a pink horror-like character and another character. Sorry I don't know much about daemons outside of the big baddies.
Setup Deployment Type: Hammer and Anvil
Mission: ITC 3 (4 objectives in a diamond formation; 1 in each deployment zone and 2 equal-distant on the sides)
Secondaries: I chose Headhunter, Reaper and Kingslayer (that 8 wound chariot guy. He's not a monster or vehicle so he gives up 4 points). He chose Old School, Reaper and Gang Busters(Hive Guard)
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil put him at a huge disadvantage. I spread my Hormagants across the deployment line. I spaced out my Biovores to prevent and deep striking in my backfield. I hid the Hive Guard in ruins in the corner. I put the Genestealers in the middle of my deployment zone, a few inches away from the gants, to be counter chargers. The Neurothropes I put right behind the gants on each side. His deployment put everything as close as he could except the Bloodletters and their character who were in deep strike.
Top Turn 1: He got first turn. All the pinks moved and advanced forward, claiming an objective. The stingrays and chariot hung back. I guess he was waiting for me to come out with my genestealers. Bloodletters and character deep striked in front of the pinks on my left flank and charged the Hormagants. The character failed it's charge. I used caustic blood and killed 3 Bloodletters. All 14 of the charged hormagants died, giving him a kill. They piled into my nuerothrope but couldn't reach the genestealers.
Bottom Turn 2: I fallback with neurothrope. I use 2 smites, all the biovores and the hive guard to kill 11 more bloodletters.(8 left). My hormagants on the right flank,which was completely open, moved onto the objective on that side of the board. This ties us for objectives. Genestealers charge the Bloodletters, finishing them off. I then use overrun to move them back behind ruins so the pinks couldn't touch them next turn. We tied for objectives and kills. I get 2 for reaper. He gets 1 for reaper and 1 for Old School.
Score: 4 to 4
Top Turn 2: His bloodletter character moved up to my warlord Neurothrope. He charges and kills it. His pinks move towards the middle of the board and shoot my hormagants on the objective, killing the unit. His stingrays move up a little to get ready to pounce on the genestealers when they attack the pinks. A unit of brims sits on the side objective near the pinks.
Bottom Turn 2: I move up the genestealers to pounce on the pinks and brims. My other neurothrope smites the bloodletter character. 2 Biovore units finish him off. Hive Guard are just within range of the stingrays. I kill 3 of them. Remaining biovore unit kills a 4th. Only 2 remain. Genestealers kill all the brims and a lot of the pinks. 6 of those pinks turn into blues, which then all turned into brims after he lost 10 more models to moral. (This was a pretty large unit of pinks). I take control of the objective and score a headhunter. We tie on kills but I hold more objectives. I also got a reaper for the brims. He got warlord for Old School and a reaper.
Score: 9 to 8
Top Turn 3: He falls back with the pinks. His remaining to stingrays fly over the genestealers but don't do much damage. He smites some genestealers but a fair number saved with catalyst. I shut down one of his buffing powers... I don't remember what. He holds 1 objective and got no kills.
Bottom Turn 3: I shoot up the remaining stingrays with biovores. My genestealers keep a toe on the objective and position themselves to charge the character near the pinks and the pinks. Hive Guard shoot up the pinks. Smites hit them too. Genestealers charge and kill the character and a couple pinks. The rest die to moral. His chariot character is sitting on his back objective with brims screening it. I get max for primary, max for reaper and another headhunter.
Score: 15 to 9
Top Turn 4: He sees there's nothing he can do. He charges his big chariot character into my genestealers and kills 1. Genestealers put some wounds on him.
Bottom Turn 4: Genestealers fallback and move towards his back objective and the remaining brims there. The rest of my army shoots and kills the big character, giving me max for kingslayer and another headhunter.
Score: 23 to 10
Turn 5-6: His brims try to run away but the genestealers catch them. I table him on turn 5. He got more points somewhere in there but I don't remember where.
Final Score: 31 to 14
Another tyranid player had 3 wins but scored about 20 points less than me so I took first and he took second. his list had 3 flyrants, 20 genestealers and some hormagants.
I loved the flexibility given to me by the Hive Guard and Biovores. Completely ignoring line of sight is so huge in ITC where there's more terrain. The Genestealers also are great in this kind of terrain where you can take full advantage of overrun to hide them after eating things. In two weeks I have a 2k tournament. I'm going to run the same backline firebase but with 2 units of genestealers, swarmlord, 2 flyrants and meiotic spores. Also the Biovores will be in units of 1 so I can spread out more to fill the deployment zone.
Thanks for the write up zimko! And good luck in your next tourney.
I'll have to give that overrun tactic a look next time I get a game in, seems like a really smart move. I think that HG and Biovores are only so good because of the "meta" of ITC behing lots of LOS blocking terrain. They are still pretty durable even without it, but everyone complains about the same ability of Dark reaper exarchs (or at least Marmatag does).
Anyway, thanks for the new ideas, I will be sure to give em a shot
Olenos wrote: Thanks for the write up zimko! And good luck in your next tourney.
I'll have to give that overrun tactic a look next time I get a game in, seems like a really smart move. I think that HG and Biovores are only so good because of the "meta" of ITC behing lots of LOS blocking terrain. They are still pretty durable even without it, but everyone complains about the same ability of Dark reaper exarchs (or at least Marmatag does).
Anyway, thanks for the new ideas, I will be sure to give em a shot
Thanks.
Yes exactly. It feels a lot like dark reaper exarches. The ruling that first floors of ruins block all line of sight is a huge boon to infantry that want to hide. It's another reason genestealers with overrun is more effective in ITC than possibly other game types.
Anyone have any advice on screening flyrants? I have two in my list for an escalation league - (one with a Balethorn cannon and one with all scythes) but the damn things seem to draw an unimaginable amount of firepower as soon as they show up. I'm having trouble keeping them alive for more than a couple turns. Is there any way to mitigate that or turn it to my advantage?
ChargerIIC wrote: Anyone have any advice on screening flyrants? I have two in my list for an escalation league - (one with a Balethorn cannon and one with all scythes) but the damn things seem to draw an unimaginable amount of firepower as soon as they show up. I'm having trouble keeping them alive for more than a couple turns. Is there any way to mitigate that or turn it to my advantage?
Land near hive guards. Land near malanthrope or venom thrope.
Be Leviathan. Be Kraken with the minus to hit.
Vs charges you can screen with gargoyles.
I would rather recomend comming in kicking and screaming with the instintive killer and shoot down whatever you are kittet out against. I often choose ork boys and let it ripp with 24 S6 BS3 re-roll to hit shots. Works like a charm.
ChargerIIC wrote: Anyone have any advice on screening flyrants? I have two in my list for an escalation league - (one with a Balethorn cannon and one with all scythes) but the damn things seem to draw an unimaginable amount of firepower as soon as they show up. I'm having trouble keeping them alive for more than a couple turns. Is there any way to mitigate that or turn it to my advantage?
I'd probably look towards Gargoyles for screening duties. They are fast and can deep strike on their own so they should pair nicely with the Tyrants. As far as drawing fire away, the only thing you can really do is try to have other targets of equal or greater perceived threat value. It might not hurt to look towards a Hive Crone or Harpy to run interference. Both are a larger models so they look imposing and are fast enough that they can put themselves in charge range turn 1 or 2.
Great write up, @Zinko. Quick point of order, as a Chaos mainer - your Daemons opponent broke an important rule when those Horrors failed a morale check; you don’t get to Split with models that flee. Though it looks like it didn’t make a decisive difference in their favour *nom*
lindsay40k wrote: Great write up, @Zinko. Quick point of order, as a Chaos mainer - your Daemons opponent broke an important rule when those Horrors failed a morale check; you don’t get to Split with models that flee. Though it looks like it didn’t make a decisive difference in their favour *nom*
Oh I see, that makes sense. So he should have removed more pinks instead of replacing blues with brims. Or if he chose to remove the blues then brims don't pop out. Thanks I'll keep that in mind for the future.
ChargerIIC wrote: Anyone have any advice on screening flyrants? I have two in my list for an escalation league - (one with a Balethorn cannon and one with all scythes) but the damn things seem to draw an unimaginable amount of firepower as soon as they show up. I'm having trouble keeping them alive for more than a couple turns. Is there any way to mitigate that or turn it to my advantage?
Your options are Tyrant Guard, Malthropes, threat saturation, and killing the things that kill Hive Tyrants.
Tyrant Guard are annoying to keep in good position when using flying Tyrants and can only eat so much firepower. I can see some weird Jorgm. build using Raveners to deliver them at the same time as the Tyrants being fun, but I'm not sure it would work that well.
Malthropes are better, but they run into the same mobility issues as Tyrant Guard do. If the rest of your list wants Malthropes (that is, lots of small walking bugs), you can likely get use out of them protecting the Tyrants with careful positioning. If not, I would recommend against bringing them just for the Tyrants.
Threat saturation is simply bringing more targets than they have ways to kill that kind of target. 5 Hive Tyrants instead of 2, or 3 Hive Tyrants and 3 Trygons, that sort of thing. You accept that they will kill 2-3 of them, but bring so many that you still win.
The last option works will all of the previous ones, and is just a matter of being careful to focus on the things that can hurt your Tyrants. If he has nothing left but bolters, your Tyrants will be in good shape. Obviously this is harder in practice than it is on a chat forum.
I suggest you add heavy threats and try to eliminate anti-monster units. A Trygon delivering 30 devourer Termagants works well-the Trygon is a major threat that forces a choice between it and the Tyrants, and the devilgants are very good at killing infantry-double shoot them to get rid of screens that are keeping your big guys away from gun tanks, or to kill infantry with heavy weapons like Dark Reapers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now I'm off to write a weird list focused around deep striking Tyrant Guard.
Karang029 wrote: So I'm torn on what I should get next for updating my Tyranids force. The options I'm looking at are:
Maleceptor
Haruspex
Exocrine
Maybe some Tyranids Warriors/Prime
Are any of them just outright bad and I should avoid or any helpful input
Exocrine and warriors can do ok. Warriors give you more flexibility. Exocrine can do lackluster damage sometimes compared to it's price. Maleceptor and Haruspex are overpriced pieces of trash.
Karang029 wrote: So I'm torn on what I should get next for updating my Tyranids force. The options I'm looking at are:
Maleceptor
Haruspex
Exocrine
Maybe some Tyranids Warriors/Prime
Are any of them just outright bad and I should avoid or any helpful input
The utility of Warriors/a Prime depends on how many you’ve already got. I generally field a dozen + Prime, or none.
Exocrine’s use largely depends on the concentration of 2W models in your meta. If you’re knee-deep in Primaris, Terminators, Bikers, and Possessed, it’ll arrive like a comet. Also very good against Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons - wounds all the infantry on a 3+, and 1W models fail 22% more DR saves when the attack does 2D. It’s probably inefficient against regular MEQs (but a very imposing scarecrow for them), and against a horde of cannon fodder it’s very inefficient (and they won’t hesitate to banzai charge and tarpit it). Incinerates light vehicles, it’s... adequate against medium vehicles, but against Land Raiders and worse it’ll fall short.
I have not intention of adding a Maleceptor, and I haven’t even bothered getting my old Haruspex conversion out of the cabinet.
^Poor Haruspex. It's rules look really fun, but it sure takes a second seat to other options.
Definitely agree with the take on Warriors. I think you have to go big or go home. Very durable units in large numbers though, a full squad take a while to chew through.
The Exocrine/Haruspex is a good kit that you can swap out the forward section on, giving nice flexibility.
So how many flyrants are people using? I played a couple of games against Nids at a tournament at the weekend. One guy had 9 and the other had 6. I managed to scrape a draw against the guy with 9 and narrowly beat the 6. It was hard work!
Mandragola wrote: So how many flyrants are people using? I played a couple of games against Nids at a tournament at the weekend. One guy had 9 and the other had 6. I managed to scrape a draw against the guy with 9 and narrowly beat the 6. It was hard work!
People are spamming them because that's kind of what people do in 40k, but i'm not convinced it's the best list for ITC.
Karang029 wrote:So I'm torn on what I should get next for updating my Tyranids force. The options I'm looking at are:
Maleceptor Haruspex Exocrine Maybe some Tyranids Warriors/Prime
Are any of them just outright bad and I should avoid or any helpful input
- Maleceptor: It is usable, but is currently overshadowed by the Hive Tyrant since they have very similar stats and cost but the Tyrant is a better fighter and has more options (plus people have tons of Tyrants around from 7th). That said, if the Smite nerf goes through they will be a bit more attractive for smite spam since they get +1 to cast and have the option to use Psychic Overload instead if the casting value is too high.
- Haruspex: I actually like the Haruspex, particularly with its new price point in the codex. The main selling point it has is that it is one of three T8 bugs in the codex, so a lot of common anti-monster weapons need a 4+ or worse to wound it and most enemy troops need 6's. Combined with its innate regeneration capabilities it is actually a fairly durable brick with S14 melee attacks for armor cracking and its writhing maw for anti-infantry. The main problem is that it is relatively slow so it needs a pod or heavy monster saturation to get it across the field intact (it is a huge Lascannon magnet) and its WS is rather poor for a melee beast (can be mitigated to an extent with Leviathan's stratagem).
- Exocrine: The Exocrine is actually fairly strong with double-tapping plasma with better than usual accuracy in codex, but to get the most out of it must remain static which is at odds with most Tyranid lists which focus on high mobility. It also overlaps a bit with Impaler Cannon Hive Guard who spit out comparable firepower but can hide out of line of sight for protection and have had a model for longer (anyone from 5th probably has 6-9 of them laying around). Still, it is a fairly good shooting platform as long as you can keep it safely bubble wrapped against alpha strikes.
Not going to comment on Warriors as opinions are heavily divided on them to put it mildly.
I intend to try to make them into an editable PDF eventally. But it's a lot of work and other projects are on my radar first. Best way to fill it in is download GIMP (free photoshop) and use the text tool. It's pretty easy to do.
I'm running 1 flyrant, exactly as I always have. My other HQ's are a Neurothrope and a malanthrope. Occasionally a Broodlord if I'm feeling Genestealery
Has anyone tried a pure tyranid gunline? Kronos hive fleet, 6-9 impaler cannot hive guard, 2 t-fexes with rupture cannons, a couple of exocrines. 2 big units of warriors with deathspitters and VC/BS, a tyranid prime to buff them up and a couple of malanthropes for synapse and cover. Spend rest of the points on termagants to bubble wrap your monsters and hormagants to go hunt forward objectives.
topaxygouroun i wrote: Has anyone tried a pure tyranid gunline? Kronos hive fleet, 6-9 impaler cannot hive guard, 2 t-fexes with rupture cannons, a couple of exocrines. 2 big units of warriors with deathspitters and VC/BS, a tyranid prime to buff them up and a couple of malanthropes for synapse and cover. Spend rest of the points on termagants to bubble wrap your monsters and hormagants to go hunt forward objectives.
Could this be a thing?
I've been running a kraken assault force accompanied by a Kronos gunline and in the past 5 test games I've been very happy with there performance.
Kronos battalion
Hq Neurothrope
Neurothrope
Troops
3x rippers
3x rippers
3x rippers
Elite
3x implaler hive guard
Heavy
2x rupture cannon tfex's w'toxin sacs
I had the extra two points so that's why the fex's have toxin sacs haha honestly tho last two games they've been quite handy when my gunline gets charged ha
My last game against admech/ ironhands my hiveguard were deff my mvp's
Taking out a ironclad, then with double tap finished final 8 wounds off a dunecrawler which then exploded and dealt a lot of damage to his rear lines.
Then the rupturefex's deleted another dunecrawler and one whiffed and only dealt 3 wounds to the second dunecrawler which my hive guard finished off
In other games I've had each rupture fex delete a leman Russ on turn 1, eliminated a titan, crashed a fire raptor wth 3 wounds left on my only remaining fex albeit some very lucky 6's to hit ha ( also love that it still remains 5+ to hit in final bracket)
So far this gunlines been working well for me along with my kraken battalion. Against deepstrike heavy lists I can spread them out within 12" of a neuro, unit of devilgants spread across my deployment and if need be I can place some rippers in the back to deny more pockets. T1 my assault force can freely advance forward without worry about units DS behind. In a game against BA with a lot of DC I went second and he made mistake to wait unit I rushed forward. On his turn 2 he had nowhere to deploy but inches ahead of his deployment haha
I'll be using this list in a couple weeks at my first itc GT tournament
I think in any sort of gunline I’d want a unit of biovores. They’re great against dug in units with reduced chances to hit, and can toss extra bodies on the field which can be important when you don’t have the points for screening units.
No love for shooting warriors? A deathspitter is basically a heavy bolter and a warrior with a heavy bolter for 25 pts is better than a marine with a heavy bolter for 22. Tyranid prime really makes them into marines and kronos will make sure that the damage output is plenty. Having 2 venom cannons in a unit of 6 is also no joke.
Synapse
Shadow in the warp
12 x str 5, ap-1, dmg 1, 24"
2d3 x str 8, ap -2, dmg 3, 36"
CC: 24 attacks, WS 3+, str 4, ap-2
Next to a Prime, they have BS 3+ with reroll 1's and CC on a 2+ !?!
The way I see it, the two venom cannons are strictly better than a predator autocannon for the same points (+1 str, +1 ap). Also the heavy bolter shooting is much appreciated for a TROOP (normal troops cannot have a heavy bolter for each model. 3 wounds , toughness 4 and 4+ save are just fine for an 27 pt model and it's hth output is tremendous, should you dare to try and engage them.
Basically they look to me as if they are a perfect all-arounder for decent pricing. Sure, a tyranid prime is expensive, so why not double down and get two units of warriors? This brings the price of the Prime to half, since we are basically only paying for the aura.
Also, with 12 warriors plus a prime in the list, we can afford to forego other synapse granting HQ tax units like neurothropes.
warriors are great on paper but are swingy verses certain opponents.
They will do excellent againgst hoard armies that cant spam long range 2 damage guns.
They will do excellent againgst armies that have small numbers and cant clear chaff (since you should have some chaff in front of them).
They will do fine againgst armies that cannot focus their attention on them due to you having other threats they must get rid of (carni spam).
They can be used in any nid army decently, however they aren't good enough at any one role for you to stick them in a tourney list unless you spam them, and if you do that you run the risk of getting hard countered.
The only ways to run warrior spam are Leviathan for the FNP or jormy for the always cover. Really a shame we cant buy extended carapace for them though.
You could bring a GSC Spearhead Detachment and bring 3 GSC Russ's w/ Battle cannon, twin Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter or Lascannons for 177-190pts and that nets you;
Problem with prime is that he has no ranged himself, is great in CC, but is there purely to buff the warriors shooting, so he's a little confused in his role! The issue with him is how many warriors to take before his buff becomes cost effective - I'd say you need two squads realistically and if they are fully tooled with deathspitters and venom cannons that becomes pricey.
The Prime is basically a 33% increase in damage of other Warriors. If you have 300 pts of warriors with it then it has payed itself, if you have more than that then it can be quite cost-efficienct.
But yeah if you are using Primes then you are spamming warriors.
Its probably the most competitive way to go for all warrior troops. Note for the warlord, you could probably just go boneswords and give him the Ymgarl relic instead.
ruminator wrote: Problem with prime is that he has no ranged himself, is great in CC, but is there purely to buff the warriors shooting, so he's a little confused in his role! The issue with him is how many warriors to take before his buff becomes cost effective - I'd say you need two squads realistically and if they are fully tooled with deathspitters and venom cannons that becomes pricey.
I ran an ITC list with 12 warriors and prime.
Warriors had 6x squads with 4x DS and 2x VC and scything talons and used them as a fire base while my GS, HT closed in, rippers grabbed objectives.
I used leviathan and placed a malanthrope and prime in the middle of the 2 squads. They did well. Definitely agree that you need to go big and I think the malanthrope/prime is a must for them to be survivable/ and more deadly.
I then fill the rest of the army with, usually, 2 battalions of Kraken forces. I'm still playing with builds for those but the Kronos detachment is pretty much set. Having Individual Biovore units allows me to ignore morale and to deep strike all I want in the main force.
I am not convinced at all that 40 pts for 1 mortal wound per turn is a good purchase. I know people are crazy over biovores but they just don't click it for me.
But for walking, indeed 
looking at them, it looks like shooting Reapers is the way to go. If I could murder 10 to 15 a turn that would make any foe take notice. 
