I’m playing with judgedoug. I think the game is a marvellous good time so far and we haven’t hit any rules quandaries despite, as judgedoug already mentioned, the fact that our team has already tackled one of the strongholds successfully. FYI, the flow of the game is: explore the fortress for clues, obtain four clues to find a stronghold, explore four strongholds to get to the endgame scenario.
It certainly is a fun way to pass the time, but GW doesn’t make “playing by the rules” easy with their rulebooks organization (best example, healing after an expedition).
I’m expecting they’ll do a hero pack of four, like they did for Silver Tower. It would be nice if they do extra monsters - maybe Necrons (flayers and/or warriors), an Ambull, Zoats and a genestealer and/or gaunts.
I love the game and I finished 3 strongholds, but my group stumbled on some edge cases in the rules or things that doesn't seems very logical or not well explained.
But it may be because the translation in french is not as good.
For exemple for "Not dead yet" event it isn't clear if I must deploy the miniature using normal deployment rules (via a portal) or if the miniature can repop on the board anywhere next to an adventurer.
There was also a confusion on the reinforcement roll with groups with mixed bases sizes. Yes we use the smallest base size on the table for the roll, but must we deploy the smallest base size first (or the ennemy player can deploy a medium size miniature even if it has done the roll for small size etc.). This seemed quite counterintuitive when we use only RaW.
One other with reinforcement: it never says if we can reinforce more minis than there was at the start (like if you start with 1 spindle drone and you kill it can you reinforce 4 on a 1). We decided that they could but here also it seems a little counterintuitive.
And one problem with the rule we fixed by a houserule is when we draw a second time the same group of ennemies and there is still minis to deploy, we redraw. Because last time we didn't do that, we had two group of renegade guards deployed on the board and once they moved and merged it was quite a mess to manage the minis respecting the initiative order.
We had other problems like these I don't remember off the top of my head, nothing to severe to stop us to enjoy the game, but little grains of sands in a well oiled machine nonetheless.
Dryaktylus wrote: Well, we have the usual denizens of abandoned Space Ships/Hulks:
*Chaos Renegades ✓
*Orks
*Genestealers (need a new kit anyway)
As someone knee-deep in genestealers, really have to disagree. The current kit is good, with a number of options. And Space Hulk brought more variety, and even Deathwatch: Overkill brought another couple variations (blast from the past edition, with the original carapace design). There are a lot of options and variety of poses for genestealers out there, probably more than anything else that isn't a marine.
Not sure why you've got a checkmark next to renegades, though. That can has been barely cracked open.
Dryaktylus wrote: Well, we have the usual denizens of abandoned Space Ships/Hulks:
*Chaos Renegades ✓
*Orks
*Genestealers (need a new kit anyway)
As someone knee-deep in genestealers, really have to disagree. The current kit is good, with a number of options. And Space Hulk brought more variety, and even Deathwatch: Overkill brought another couple variations (blast from the past edition, with the original carapace design). There are a lot of options and variety of poses for genestealers out there, probably more than anything else that isn't a marine.
While it isn't bad it doesn't fit with the Overkill Genestealers/Patriarch and hybrids retcon look. The current kit was a move to 'tyranidify' them, but now we're back in 1989 (and as someone who is knee-deep in old Genestealers and hybrids, I like it ).
Voss wrote: Not sure why you've got a checkmark next to renegades, though. That can has been barely cracked open.
Sure. It's just a note that they did it, not that they're done. Though with Rogue Trader and Blackstone Fortress featuring Chaos Renegades chances are not bad they'll do something else next time (even if it's Stormboys of Khorne and Nurgle Genestealers).
Stormonu wrote: It certainly is a fun way to pass the time, but GW doesn’t make “playing by the rules” easy with their rulebooks organization (best example, healing after an expedition).
I just went by the literal lines in the book which tell you, iirc, to clear the tokens from the character card (book not on me, but it's something like that). I think it's in the preparing for an expedition section.
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TheGuest wrote: For exemple for "Not dead yet" event it isn't clear if I must deploy the miniature using normal deployment rules (via a portal) or if the miniature can repop on the board anywhere next to an adventurer.
There was also a confusion on the reinforcement roll with groups with mixed bases sizes. Yes we use the smallest base size on the table for the roll, but must we deploy the smallest base size first (or the ennemy player can deploy a medium size miniature even if it has done the roll for small size etc.). This seemed quite counterintuitive when we use only RaW.
One other with reinforcement: it never says if we can reinforce more minis than there was at the start (like if you start with 1 spindle drone and you kill it can you reinforce 4 on a 1). We decided that they could but here also it seems a little counterintuitive.
And one problem with the rule we fixed by a houserule is when we draw a second time the same group of ennemies and there is still minis to deploy, we redraw. Because last time we didn't do that, we had two group of renegade guards deployed on the board and once they moved and merged it was quite a mess to manage the minis respecting the initiative order.
We had other problems like these I don't remember off the top of my head, nothing to severe to stop us to enjoy the game, but little grains of sands in a well oiled machine nonetheless.
Not Dead Yet, in the English version, is next to an adventurer. It's an "Evil Dead" style surprise.
For the reinforcements roll, you roll and read left to right on the chart. So a "1" brings back small, medium, and large bases. Then you read the Encounter top to bottom and place minis that are available to be placed, in the order, as they can fit.
IIRC English version states that your reinforcement roll is up to the Encounter size.
I also once had the issue of keeping Guard separate, until I realized it's easier to keep track of them by using each sculpt only once in each group, and dead guys go to their reference card. I also just finished painting the set; one squad of 7 I painted slightly warmer and used strong tone shade while the other I painted slightly colder and used a dark tone shade.
You make one Reinforcement roll per group, using the smallest base size in the group. It says "return that many slain hostiles from that group...", indicating that you can't reinforce over the starting group size.
The first Encounter card with a mixed group I find is 1 Chaos Marine and 4 Traitor Guardsmen. So, when that group makes a Reinforcement roll, you use the Small column, since the Guardsmen are Small.
As for distinguishing multiple groups of the same models, you can do it with paint, or simply have one group pointing one way and the other group a different way.
Only played one session so far, but it was fun. Had a couple of rule “moments”, but that could just be us learning. As for new models, perhaps Demiurge?
judgedoug wrote: Then you read the Encounter top to bottom and place minis that are available to be placed, in the order, as they can fit.
IIRC English version states that your reinforcement roll is up to the Encounter size.
Thanks for all the precisions!
Where does it says you must follow the order given on the encounter to chose the minis to place?
So if I understand right if on my card I have "1 Obsidius Mallex, 4 traitor guards" and the group is entirelly killed, if I must reinforce 1 mini, it'll always be Obsidius Mallex?
If you thought a Man of Iron was cool, you haven’t seen anything yet
So we'd be looking for something from the dim, barely remembered past of 40k that might be found in a Blackstone fortress at the squad level or as an individual. So let's see:
Xenos:
Megarachnids - A Blackstone fortress without giant spiders is like a day without sunshine
Squats AND Demiurg - Both look like space dwarfs and both are completely different, separate factions. Or are they?
Harlequin Mines - About fething time
Imperium:
Adeptus Arbities - They could be on the fortress or Precipice because...You know what I don't even care. If GW's gonna make a squad of Arbitrators I'm gonna buy a squad of Arbitrators
Sensei/Illuminati - Now there's a blast from the past
Space Marines - No, not the Space Marines you're thinking of. I mean like the Black Dragons or Flame Falcons. Mutated, outcast Space Marines. They might be allied with Chaos. They might try to uphold their oaths to an Imperium that's trying to kill
them. Or they might just be totally crazy, either way that's how you get your Space Marines into Blackstone Fortress.
In the grand tradition of wild speculation I have shamelessly allowed my biases to shine through clearly.
judgedoug wrote: Then you read the Encounter top to bottom and place minis that are available to be placed, in the order, as they can fit.
IIRC English version states that your reinforcement roll is up to the Encounter size.
Thanks for all the precisions!
Where does it says you must follow the order given on the encounter to chose the minis to place?
So if I understand right if on my card I have "1 Obsidius Mallex, 4 traitor guards" and the group is entirelly killed, if I must reinforce 1 mini, it'll always be Obsidius Mallex?
No, as far as I can see, the precise models chosen to return is up to the players. Unless it’s a five-player game, I would think that the most powerful models in a group would be the last to return.
judgedoug wrote: Then you read the Encounter top to bottom and place minis that are available to be placed, in the order, as they can fit.
IIRC English version states that your reinforcement roll is up to the Encounter size.
Thanks for all the precisions!
Where does it says you must follow the order given on the encounter to chose the minis to place?
So if I understand right if on my card I have "1 Obsidius Mallex, 4 traitor guards" and the group is entirelly killed, if I must reinforce 1 mini, it'll always be Obsidius Mallex?
No, as far as I can see, the precise models chosen to return is up to the players. Unless it’s a five-player game, I would think that the most powerful models in a group would be the last to return.
AFAIK you read the entire row based on what you roll. So a roll of 1 is, what, 4 small, 2 medium, 1 large? That would return the 4 traitor guard and Obsidius Mallex. If you rolled the result of 2 small, 0 medium, 0 large, it would return just 2 guardsmen.
again don't have the book on me right now. But I don't think the reinforcement roll says anything about choosing a column. You just roll.
AFAIK you read the entire row based on what you roll. So a roll of 1 is, what, 4 small, 2 medium, 1 large? That would return the 4 traitor guard and Obsidius Mallex. If you rolled the result of 2 small, 0 medium, 0 large, it would return just 2 guardsmen.
again don't have the book on me right now. But I don't think the reinforcement roll says anything about choosing a column. You just roll.
You only return the smallest slain hostiles from each group. See page 13 of the Combat book.
Anyone thing we'll see the Starstriders show up in the Blackstone Fortress? Wouldn't mind the characters to play or an opportunity to buy them without more Nurgle stuff...
Chairman Aeon wrote: Anyone thing we'll see the Starstriders show up in the Blackstone Fortress? Wouldn't mind the characters to play or an opportunity to buy them without more Nurgle stuff...
As a WD article maybe, but not as a specific release.
I'm curious what needed interpretation? I've played for one evening so far, and didn't run across anything I thought needed explanation. Everything made sense to me.
like for example, enemy reinforcements max out at the encounter card max group size, instead of available models group size
and keeping unused inspiration points between expeditions
do i draw another encounter card if there just isn't enough models to make, for example a second group of spindle drones?
when a character receives a discovery card that meets their secret agenda and becomes inspired, does he keep the discovery card (to be used again on the next expedition) or return it back to the deck?
AFAIK you read the entire row based on what you roll. So a roll of 1 is, what, 4 small, 2 medium, 1 large? That would return the 4 traitor guard and Obsidius Mallex. If you rolled the result of 2 small, 0 medium, 0 large, it would return just 2 guardsmen.
again don't have the book on me right now. But I don't think the reinforcement roll says anything about choosing a column. You just roll.
You only return the smallest slain hostiles from each group. See page 13 of the Combat book.
Can you quote the passage in the rules that make you say that? Because I don't understand the rules like that at all when I read it.
Look, the game's fun and generally well-done, but if you're not finding problems with the rules you're not looking hard enough
For example:
Does a basic success of the gambit force you to swap initiative places with the NEAREST hostile group to the left or the right (no choice of direction, you must swap with the nearest) or is it a swap with the nearest to either the left or the right (your choice)?
TheGuest wrote: Can you quote the passage in the rules that make you say that? Because I don't understand the rules like that at all when I read it.
"To make a reinforcement roll for a group, roll the Blackstone dice and look up the result on the following table by cross-referencing the roll with the size of the smallest slain hostile from the group.
"If a number is shown on the reinforcement table, return that many slain hostiles from that group to the battlefield as reinforcements. If there are not enough slain hostiles in the group, return as many as you can."
- Combat book, p13.
Example 1: You've killed an adversary group of 4 guardsmen (small) and 1 psyker (large). You roll 2 for reinforcements and look up that result in the "small" column: 4 guardsmen return.
Example 2: Mallex (huge) and 2 CSM (large) are dead. Reinforcement roll = 1, so the 2 CSM return.
If this doesn't clear up our misunderstanding, I'd like to take further discussion to either YMDC or the specialist games forum.
angryboy2k wrote: Look, the game's fun and generally well-done, but if you're not finding problems with the rules you're not looking hard enough
For example:
Does a basic success of the gambit force you to swap initiative places with the NEAREST hostile group to the left or the right (no choice of direction, you must swap with the nearest) or is it a swap with the nearest to either the left or the right (your choice)?
your choice. it wouldn't work as intended if otherwise
I'm curious what needed interpretation? I've played for one evening so far, and didn't run across anything I thought needed explanation. Everything made sense to me.
like for example, enemy reinforcements max out at the encounter card max group size, instead of available models group size
and keeping unused inspiration points between expeditions
do i draw another encounter card if there just isn't enough models to make, for example a second group of spindle drones?
when a character receives a discovery card that meets their secret agenda and becomes inspired, does he keep the discovery card (to be used again on the next expedition) or return it back to the deck?
Don't have the rules to hand for a page reference, but I remember reading that if you couldn't place all the models for an encounter or reinforcement, you used whatever models were available and then that encounter or spawn was considered done, so no redraw.
You keep any secret agendas once they are found, so you remain inspired in future games.
Same with inspiration points; they remain until used. This last one I may be wrong about though.
AFAIK you read the entire row based on what you roll. So a roll of 1 is, what, 4 small, 2 medium, 1 large? That would return the 4 traitor guard and Obsidius Mallex. If you rolled the result of 2 small, 0 medium, 0 large, it would return just 2 guardsmen.
again don't have the book on me right now. But I don't think the reinforcement roll says anything about choosing a column. You just roll.
It says to cross-reference the roll with the smallest Size in the group.
TheGuest wrote: Can you quote the passage in the rules that make you say that? Because I don't understand the rules like that at all when I read it.
"To make a reinforcement roll for a group, roll the Blackstone dice and look up the result on the following table by cross-referencing the roll with the size of the smallest slain hostile from the group.
"If a number is shown on the reinforcement table, return that many slain hostiles from that group to the battlefield as reinforcements. If there are not enough slain hostiles in the group, return as many as you can."
- Combat book, p13.
Example 1: You've killed an adversary group of 4 guardsmen (small) and 1 psyker (large). You roll 2 for reinforcements and look up that result in the "small" column: 4 guardsmen return.
Example 2: Mallex (huge) and 2 CSM (large) are dead. Reinforcement roll = 1, so the 2 CSM return.
If this doesn't clear up our misunderstanding, I'd like to take further discussion to either YMDC or the specialist games forum.
You use the smallest Size in the group to find out how many models potentially return, but that doesn't say only those models can return.
Example 3; one group is Mallex (huge) and 2 Chaos Space Marines (large). So when rolling for reinforcements you use the Large column, but there's nothing stopping you returning Mallex if you want.
endtransmission wrote: Same with inspiration points; they remain until used. This last one I may be wrong about though.
For inspiration points they only say to remove all the token when you are "saving" your game (putting the cards in the sleeve).
So I imagine if you do two exploration in a row you keep them but otherwise you lost your inspiration everytime you're tidying up your game...
angryboy2k wrote: Look, the game's fun and generally well-done, but if you're not finding problems with the rules you're not looking hard enough
For example:
Does a basic success of the gambit force you to swap initiative places with the NEAREST hostile group to the left or the right (no choice of direction, you must swap with the nearest) or is it a swap with the nearest to either the left or the right (your choice)?
your choice. it wouldn't work as intended if otherwise
Well that kind of proves my point because I think a “gambit” should entail some risk, so my opinion is that you shouldn’t get a choice of direction. Why do you think the intent is the opposite?
angryboy2k wrote: Look, the game's fun and generally well-done, but if you're not finding problems with the rules you're not looking hard enough
For example:
Does a basic success of the gambit force you to swap initiative places with the NEAREST hostile group to the left or the right (no choice of direction, you must swap with the nearest) or is it a swap with the nearest to either the left or the right (your choice)?
your choice. it wouldn't work as intended if otherwise
Well that kind of proves my point because I think a “gambit” should entail some risk, so my opinion is that you shouldn’t get a choice of direction. Why do you think the intent is the opposite?
It's a gambit because it costs you an activation dice to do, but only has a 2 in 6 chance of success, so a potentially wasted activation before the turn starts. Unless you're Janus Draik who gets to do it for free.
AndrewGPaul wrote: You use the smallest Size in the group to find out how many models potentially return, but that doesn't say only those models can return.
You're right. This reading does make the game harder, which is a good thing if you ask me.
I like the Legacy style modifications to the decks as you go further in. I think I've been quite lucky with the draws so far, in that I've done a few trips into the Fortress now and still havn't drawn any harder enemies to fight.
We have done two expeditions and a stronghold and have not pulled any higher level enemy Legacy cards. Do you draw a Legacy card after a Stronghold expedition?
Now that's a redesign. Compare it to the original:
I think it's great, and it looks like a real proper honest-to-Khorne expansion pack. Multiple card types, a rulebook, new tiles, even a new ship. That's the Quest I remember.
Just putting my Blackstone mini's together at the moment.. so happy to see there will be expansions for the game.. and awesome for such a throwback to the old RT days.
I've only just been able to crack open my copy of the game and I'm not even halfway through building the base game models and they bring out an awesome new beastie. Dagnammit!
Also, hooray for what looks like an amazing bad guy to come across
H.B.M.C. wrote: Now that's a redesign. Compare it to the original:
I think it's great, and it looks like a real proper honest-to-Khorne expansion pack. Multiple card types, a rulebook, new tiles, even a new ship. That's the Quest I remember.
It's still clearly an Ambull, but now it's more than just a quick Umber Hulk knockoff.
Chopstick wrote: Bummer they didn't make an explorer as a nemesis to the ambull. Like a hunter and the beast. :(
They did say this is just the "first expansion"...I would be shocked if the second isn't new Explorers.
New explorer is definitely likely, what i don't want to see is that the new explorer is related to the ambull expansion but not included in the very big ambull box.
Kanluwen wrote: They did say this is just the "first expansion"...I would be shocked if the second isn't new Explorers.
Like say, an Inquisitor and retinue...
In the meantime I'd love to see some existing models (Starstriders) get cards for BSF in a White Dwarf since that's now a thing.
Do we expect all now stuff or are we going to whine when Greyfax, a Calladius ... et al show up in a boxed expansion? Is the quality of the execution more important than just new stuff?
The Ambull has its own ship? Seems odd that an adversary only expansion would come with one. But if there was a new explorer as well why would GW hold them back?
GoatboyBeta wrote: The Ambull has its own ship? Seems odd that an adversary only expansion would come with one. But if there was a new explorer as well why would GW hold them back?
OMG!?! You mean the Ambull is an explorer expansion and not an adversary... j/k
One thing is it could be a variety of new ships coming that people can then buy/trade up for their characters.
For more modularity and narrative or something?
(Don’t know if that would practically work/be possible. Not played yet)
GoatboyBeta wrote: The Ambull has its own ship? Seems odd that an adversary only expansion would come with one. But if there was a new explorer as well why would GW hold them back?
OMG!?! You mean the Ambull is an explorer expansion and not an adversary... j/k
It's a very nice redesign. I don't remember any ambull lore from the beforetimes so I don't know if the whole thing about it carrying larvae in its skin like a horrific sponge is a new addition, but they've skated a very nice line between faithfulness and reinvention.
Agamemnon2 wrote: It's a very nice redesign. I don't remember any ambull lore from the beforetimes so I don't know if the whole thing about it carrying larvae in its skin like a horrific sponge is a new addition, but they've skated a very nice line between faithfulness and reinvention.
It's a very faithful reproduction of an Umber Hulk. ^_~
Agamemnon2 wrote: It's a very nice redesign. I don't remember any ambull lore from the beforetimes so I don't know if the whole thing about it carrying larvae in its skin like a horrific sponge is a new addition, but they've skated a very nice line between faithfulness and reinvention.
It's a very faithful reproduction of an Umber Hulk. ^_~
I always thought so too - but now since you've brought it up, I can post one of my favorite pics of it!
Loved Jeff Dee's work, 'back in the day'.
Does the Ambull have a 'confusion' ability too?
Can it burrow through surfaces quickly too?
Would be nice if it could!
And yes, 1st Edition Umber Hulk is best Umber Hulk!
(Maybe 2d Edition too - but boy did they end up screwing it up in later editions! )
Agamemnon2 wrote: It's a very nice redesign. I don't remember any ambull lore from the beforetimes so I don't know if the whole thing about it carrying larvae in its skin like a horrific sponge is a new addition, but they've skated a very nice line between faithfulness and reinvention.
It's a very faithful reproduction of an Umber Hulk. ^_~
The original model was, but this one, not so much. There's never been any discussion of the reproductive cycle of the ambull, so while those grubs are new, they don't contradict anything.
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Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I think i'm going to have to pick up one or two of these for my wandering monster scenarios for AoS. They'll fit perfectly.
There was once a WFRP scenario featuring an Ambull, so there's precedent.
Agamemnon2 wrote: It's a very nice redesign. I don't remember any ambull lore from the beforetimes so I don't know if the whole thing about it carrying larvae in its skin like a horrific sponge is a new addition, but they've skated a very nice line between faithfulness and reinvention.
It's a very faithful reproduction of an Umber Hulk. ^_~
The original model was, but this one, not so much. There's never been any discussion of the reproductive cycle of the ambull, so while those grubs are new, they don't contradict anything.
Well this looks like it's a more current pic of the Umber Hulk, so it does look like a faithful reproduction of the monster...
Yes, the old Ambull looked pretty much exactly like that. The new one? Less so, like I said. They didn't paint it brown, for a start.
It's not the only thing that looks like it escaped from the Monster manual and made its way into 40k; Enslavers aren't a million miles from Beholders, for example. Perhaps they had a page to fill and the deadline looming in 1988.
To me the ambull does look like the Umber Hulk pic I posted (even if it is a different color). It looks more like that Umber Hulk than it does the original artwork...
It's a nice enough model, but I think this'll be a solid pass for me unless I can come up with a reason to buy it - a rare and occasional encounter in Blackstone Fortress doesn't justify that cost.
I think it'd see more use in a custom Necromunda scenario, but as a whole, I see nothing that excites me - not even the nostalgia nod.
Was there any hint to what the other expansions would be? Presuming as what others have posted more hero’s & enemies, but any idea of what they would be?
H.B.M.C. wrote: None of the pics you've posted look anything more than superficially like the new Ambull.
The third edition one (the color drawing, where the monster is brown) blatantly does. Mandibles, claws, eyes, general shape of the carapace and arms, with 'knuckles' dragging on the ground.
Yes, details differ, but there are clearly influences.
Calistro wrote:Was there any hint to what the other expansions would be? Presuming as what others have posted more hero’s & enemies, but any idea of what they would be?
Didn't see any hints myself, but heroes have pretty much the full range to go through.
Specific RT era critters/monsters that could pop up-
Slaan
Zoats
original flavor (leech head) Genestealers
Astral Hounds and Spectres
Enslavers
Psychneuein
Vampires
Catachan Devils
Cthellean Cudbears (unlikely- think Sasquatch bears, but make them purple and extra fuzzy, described as a 'typical' death world carnivore)
There are some other, fairly boring creatures- Grox (lizard cattle, basically), Crotalids (komodo dragons, without much to recommend them), and Ferro-beast (a GW version of the D&D rust monster)
Oh, and Vampires, psyker shapeshifters that look like humanoid bats in their natural form. Also unlikely, because they're just... vampires, but ugly by default. Really no reason to toss them in modern 40k as is (especially with Blood Angels around).
They'll probably avoid generic warp creatures in favor of chaos god stuff (if any of that hits BS Fortress directly).
They could raise a lot of interesting background questions if the fortress has lost or rare Tyranid creatures in a zoo or specimen lab, if they choose to go that route rather than chaos. I'd prefer either to a 'monster of the fiscal quarter' expansion along the lines of this one.
H.B.M.C. wrote: None of the pics you've posted look anything more than superficially like the new Ambull.
The third edition one (the color drawing, where the monster is brown) blatantly does. Mandibles, claws, eyes, general shape of the carapace and arms, with 'knuckles' dragging on the ground.
Yes, details differ, but there are clearly influences.
Calistro wrote:Was there any hint to what the other expansions would be? Presuming as what others have posted more hero’s & enemies, but any idea of what they would be?
Didn't see any hints myself, but heroes have pretty much the full range to go through.
Specific RT era critters/monsters that could pop up-
Slaan
Zoats
original flavor (leech head) Genestealers
Astral Hounds and Spectres
Enslavers
Psychneuein
Vampires
Catachan Devils
Cthellean Cudbears (unlikely- think Sasquatch bears, but make them purple and extra fuzzy, described as a 'typical' death world carnivore)
There are some other, fairly boring creatures- Grox (lizard cattle, basically), Crotalids (komodo dragons, without much to recommend them), and Ferro-beast (a GW version of the D&D rust monster)
Oh, and Vampires, psyker shapeshifters that look like humanoid bats in their natural form. Also unlikely, because they're just... vampires, but ugly by default. Really no reason to toss them in modern 40k as is (especially with Blood Angels around).
They'll probably avoid generic warp creatures in favor of chaos god stuff (if any of that hits BS Fortress directly).
They could raise a lot of interesting background questions if the fortress has lost or rare Tyranid creatures in a zoo or specimen lab, if they choose to go that route rather than chaos. I'd prefer either to a 'monster of the fiscal quarter' expansion along the lines of this one.
Cool, thanks the original rogue trader was quite before my time and know one I know has a copy, but going through the community website they say " We’ll have more news for you about what’ll be in the expansions in the new year, but for now, we can assure you that more explorers will be making their way to the Blackstone Fortress in search of its secrets – while horrors beyond those we’ve already seen lurk further inside its labyrinthine depths." From https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/25/the-future-of-warhammer-quest-blackstone-fortressgw-homepage-post-2/
I have no intention of getting BSF, but I definitely want The Dreaded Ambull. Its got Metroid Prime written all over it and a fantastic update of the original model!
Seriously, why could this not be a game on its own, dammit!
My guess for a scenario, it's in there running around, found a nice spot to nest up at, and your explorers come across it. OR its is out hunting for food, and you come across it Alien Xenomorph style.... Its the Giant monster scenario that you come across.
He's a big one, looks like around the Dred size, so he's going to be a challenge for one or two guys... you'd better bring your big guns for this one.
Chairman Aeon wrote: So we are going down the Kingdom Death Monster route with since enemy expansions...
It made me think even more of Shadows of Brimstone. The game itself seems to owe a lot in design and structure to that game - the town/ship phase especially - and they have similar single monster expansions.
Ambull: Move 3, Wounds 16, size Huge
Enormous mandibles - Two triangles at range 1, Null at 2+
Eviscerating blow - every time you suffer a wound, take an additional wound
Always takes two actions (roll, perform action, roll again, perform action).
Never pinned when moving.
Also has some kind of ability to heal each turn (including grievous wounds), and looks like it runs away when it takes 16 or more wounds so you can hunt it (possibly?).
There is a kind of frog that carries its eggs on its back for so long, the skin grows up around them, until they are partially buried in the adult’s flesh. When they finally hatch it’s like a hundred blisters bursting. And releasing tadpoles.
There are several species of insect that carry their eggs around until they hatch.
Now combine the two and grow it to twice the height of a man…
Looks like it's on a 50mm base, and the box is half the size of the main box (and probably thinner; I'd expect something between the size of the Kill Team Commanders box and the box a Rhino comes in.
Oh man, a grimdarked up "oi, dats my leg" using BSF for core mechanics... I think my mind just melted... It would have to come with the audio tape as well... just tape, no new fangled digital contrivance.
GW Glasgow used to run a gaming club on Saturday afternoons in the upstairs room of a local pub, back in the late 1990s. I remember someone playing one of the Troll games and putting the tape on the sound system. That was ... an experience.
Mr_Rose wrote: There is a kind of frog that carries its eggs on its back for so long, the skin grows up around them, until they are partially buried in the adult’s flesh. When they finally hatch it’s like a hundred blisters bursting. And releasing tadpoles.
Has anyone heard anything about a release date/price for the Ambull? Do we think it is likely to be after all the Genestealer cult releases, or alongside a second wave?
It's hard to say. Things announced at game shows can take a while before they get released.
The underworld's band from last week were announced months ago, and some of the GSC models were also teased quite a while back.
If I had to guess, I'd say March is more likely than February.
It'll most probably get released the same week as the Ambots for Necromunda. Probably along with some weird pun for the release. But I hope soon. I want the Ambots.
SamusDrake wrote: Hoping its not too long as I've written rules for this chap to use in Lost Patrol...
Okay, I'm genuinely curious, what's the appeal in that game? I found it so horribly skewed that there was absolutely no draw for me. What gives it the longevity that you'd want to play it more than a few times, let alone home brew mechanics for it?
SamusDrake wrote: Hoping its not too long as I've written rules for this chap to use in Lost Patrol...
Okay, I'm genuinely curious, what's the appeal in that game? I found it so horribly skewed that there was absolutely no draw for me. What gives it the longevity that you'd want to play it more than a few times, let alone home brew mechanics for it?
Some games take far too long to set up and resolve, whereas Lost Patrol is quick to get started and easy to modify into a far better game.
The 1st edition of the game was rather good but the recent 2nd edition broke the rules so much it was frustrating for the marine player and down right boring for the Tyranid player. GW tried to sugar coat it with "the marines are supposed to die" and that it saves money if you collect marines and tyranids. In this core form the 2nd edition has very little longevity indeed.
I loved the "evolving jungle" mechanic and found a pdf of the 1st edition rule book which confirmed what I had thought all along - the marines should roll more than one dice to score a 6 and the genestealers were selected for their appearance more than for their benefit of the game itself. Being a designer at heart and a big fan of films like The Most Dangerous Game, King Kong and Predator , I could see potential for events and rogue creatures to pose a threat to both players - not just the marines. In a nutshell, marines with better firepower odds, setting traps, event tables with a D20 and threats to the tyranid player.
I could go into more depth about how to modify Lost Patrol into a much more fulfulling game, but I don't want to derail this thread as that would be unfair for others here to discuss BSF. What I will do though is consider a new LP thread to share some ideas. I'm going to wait until I have play tested the Ambull scenario before doing so, but for a little teaser I'll be going with Tau Stealth suits instead of marines for that one...
The beauty of Silver Tower and Shadows over Hammerhonk or whatever it was: A massive array of options for things to play. Bring in your own kitbashed/converted Stormcast guy and run a party of knights, bring in your Chaos dudes and run an all Chaos Party against the Silver Tower.
I do really love the models for Blackstone Fortress, but I sat around with a heap of Deathwatch and CSM bits hoping I could do the same. Here's hoping we see expansions for this game that allows exactly that with more 'generic' profiles.
Until then, I'm trying to figure out appropriate homebrew cards for various types of units in an Inquisitorial Warband.
SamusDrake wrote: The 1st edition of the game was rather good but the recent 2nd edition broke the rules so much it was frustrating for the marine player and down right boring for the Tyranid player. GW tried to sugar coat it with "the marines are supposed to die" and that it saves money if you collect marines and tyranids. In this core form the 2nd edition has very little longevity indeed.
Oh, we're in complete agreement then. I've got no beef with 1st edition- was a pretty decent Space Hulk light.
Doritos, yeah, really hoping they add a lot of breadth to the game. They set up so thoroughly pretty much any baddies, and a wide number of player options. Between niche stuff like mercenary orks and social necrons, I think Tyranids and Chaos are about the only who couldn't kind of fit a party.
SamusDrake wrote: The 1st edition of the game was rather good but the recent 2nd edition broke the rules so much it was frustrating for the marine player and down right boring for the Tyranid player. GW tried to sugar coat it with "the marines are supposed to die" and that it saves money if you collect marines and tyranids. In this core form the 2nd edition has very little longevity indeed.
Oh, we're in complete agreement then. I've got no beef with 1st edition- was a pretty decent Space Hulk light.
Doritos, yeah, really hoping they add a lot of breadth to the game. They set up so thoroughly pretty much any baddies, and a wide number of player options. Between niche stuff like mercenary orks and social necrons, I think Tyranids and Chaos are about the only who couldn't kind of fit a party.
Chaos could definitely work, but it would have to be subtle. Something like a noble who is part of a secret cult, but outwardly looks like a loyal Imperial citizen, or a radical Inquisitor who has crossed one line too many.
Tyranids would only work if it was a 4th gen hybrid sent on a scouting mission of some kind.
I'm hoping that they start doing character packs, a bit like the old Quest character expansions, but these would be two characters per pack. The characters would be somewhat linked (like Taddeus the Purifier and Pious Vorne) with a new ship they can both use during/between adventures, plus all their associated rules/new items/cards/artefacts/etc.
That’s what they said about the Killteam commander boxes, for 2/3 that price, and I didn’t get any of those either. As another poster said, buying one will just send the wrong message.
Same reason I haven’t bought any beasts of nurgle. I don’t want to encourage $50 models that can come in units of 9.
Tiberius501 wrote: Yeah that price is insane for such a small expansion. That's a damn shame
So what all comes in it, since you apparently know everything in it? I mean if you know that the price is insane for "such a small expansion".
All we know from the Open Day: Ambull is a 60mm based model. Looks larger than UR025(the largest model in BSF). There's the "hatchlings", which are small swarms. There's a book--no page counts. Cards(assumed from their talk of treasure and upgrades).
Tiberius501 wrote: Yeah that price is insane for such a small expansion. That's a damn shame
So what all comes in it, since you apparently know everything in it? I mean if you know that the price is insane for "such a small expansion".
All we know from the Open Day:
Ambull is a 60mm based model. Looks larger than UR025(the largest model in BSF).
There's the "hatchlings", which are small swarms.
There's a book--no page counts.
Cards(assumed from their talk of treasure and upgrades).
It may not be too bad for you guys, but $100 is a bit paintful for us in Aus, considering how much came in the starter box and how much that cost. I dunno, a model and some hatchlings and some cards. I guess all you get for that price is a single tank, but that's probably why I don't buy tanks haha.
But for people in other countries it's most likely reasonable.
Tiberius501 wrote: Yeah that price is insane for such a small expansion. That's a damn shame
So what all comes in it, since you apparently know everything in it? I mean if you know that the price is insane for "such a small expansion".
All we know from the Open Day:
Ambull is a 60mm based model. Looks larger than UR025(the largest model in BSF).
There's the "hatchlings", which are small swarms.
There's a book--no page counts.
Cards(assumed from their talk of treasure and upgrades).
It may not be too bad for you guys, but $100 is a bit paintful for us in Aus, considering how much came in the starter box and how much that cost. I dunno, a model and some hatchlings and some cards. I guess all you get for that price is a single tank, but that's probably why I don't buy tanks haha.
But for people in other countries it's most likely reasonable.
Or maybe it's because I play it with a group and if they want to play this, I'm making them kick in towards it.
MarkNorfolk wrote: I think there's more to the box than just the model...
I know. It is a boardgame expansion. And one at an insane price point, as boardgame expansions go, unless they offer a lot of gameplay. And this one appears to add an additional encounter, so far.
He appears to be roughly the size of an Orc Megaboss(£24) and comes with two other models and the expansion content. Weighing him up against the AT Reaver(also £35), it feels fair.
That being said, I'm hoping that this will be a similar case of the AT warhounds, which were £45 in White Dwarf but then £40 on the website.
Thankfully I'm in the UK( not too far from Nottingham ) but I do feel for fellow customers in other parts of the world.
As far as I know GW stock is produced in country for the UK, rather than China for the rest of the world.
Considering how small England is and their outrageous fortune, I'm surprised GW hasn't set up a facility in at least the States to produce stock locally.
Australia is definitely getting a raw deal. Nothing worse than a sharp, hard kick in the nuts.
I agree that the price point is far too steep by board gaming standards. Unfortunately, it's about where I expected it to be for a GW product. Sadly, that's why I spend most my board gaming funds on other companies. GW give boardgamers very little comparative value for their financial investment.
I can only imagine how much that carrying case will set a sucker back.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Definitely getting this guy. The 40k rules could be good for use as a wandering monster, shame there's nothing for Kill Team though.
But it looks like a quite week for GW. Catching there breath after two AoS battle tomes and before Shadowspear launches?
All the Black Library celebration stuff comes out on the same day as the Ambull.
GaroRobe wrote: Is it just me or is the Ambull-Adrena Gland Distillation card really poorly written?
"Discard this card when this is explorer is activated"
Not just you. Extraneous 'is' in front of 'explorer.' Needed an editing pass, especially since it got used in the preview pic.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Definitely getting this guy. The 40k rules could be good for use as a wandering monster, shame there's nothing for Kill Team though.
But it looks like a quite week for GW. Catching there breath after two AoS battle tomes and before Shadowspear launches?
Does The Dreaded Ambull come with 40K rules for the Ambull? Or would you be using ye olde 40K: Rogue Trader stats?
I don't quite understand how an Ambull would fit in with any of the armies of the 40K universe. What factions will be able to take it, and in what capacity?
I don't quite understand how an Ambull would fit in with any of the armies of the 40K universe. What factions will be able to take it, and in what capacity?
DE Beastmasters would be the closest fit one would think.
I don't quite understand how an Ambull would fit in with any of the armies of the 40K universe. What factions will be able to take it, and in what capacity?
You can also play BSF drones as an unaligned 40k troops choice, and IMHO alien AI makes even less sense as part of a 40k army than an ambull...
All the Black Library celebration stuff comes out on the same day as the Ambull.
Thats good news, I've been waiting for the Greyfax/Celestine drama.
But even so its still an unusually quite week given GW's recent breakneck pace, especially on the model front. I guess I'm just impatent to get my hands on the new CSM and Primaris.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: The 40k rules are for narrative play games. Unusual stuff. Not the sort of thing you'd just stuff into a tournament list.
That would make sense. A scenario about capturing or hunting the beast and its young shouldn't be hard to put together. Although part of me wishes it would have OTT match play rules just for the lols of Ambull spam becoming a thing
I don't quite understand how an Ambull would fit in with any of the armies of the 40K universe. What factions will be able to take it, and in what capacity?
Well, he was originally part of 40K back in its early days when it wasn't limited to just two armies having a battle. There was room to allow for a third player to referee and control alien creatures that happened to be present in an environment. Such a creature presented a danger to both sides; perhaps a nearby rocket explosion wakes him up and will attack the nearest unit.
With Rules for Warhammer 40,000!
The return of the Ambull is a pretty big deal, and it’d be a shame to restrict how you could use such an awesome model. So, inside The Dreaded Ambull set you’ll find datasheets for using this massive beast – and the scurrying critters that accompany it – in battle, plus points if that’s how you like to balance your games.
Yes, that is how I like to (attempt to) balance my games!
Can't wait to see how this thing works in 40K too.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Tempted to splash out on the carry case. Haven’t any spare at the moment, and my BSF models are currently in an old biccie tin.
It's weird it didn't come out with the main game.
There's also no indication about what's special about this case. Can it properly fit all the cards/tiles for the main game + the expension, or is it just a small case with special branding (like for KT)?
I have the Feldherr foam specifically made for Blackstone, which is pretty nice (and I know Battlefoam makes something similar). Sadly I'll have to store the Ambull separately.
With Rules for Warhammer 40,000!
The return of the Ambull is a pretty big deal, and it’d be a shame to restrict how you could use such an awesome model. So, inside The Dreaded Ambull set you’ll find datasheets for using this massive beast – and the scurrying critters that accompany it – in battle, plus points if that’s how you like to balance your games.
Yes, that is how I like to (attempt to) balance my games!
Can't wait to see how this thing works in 40K too.
It is nice of them to throw a bone to the more fringe elements of the player base.
It was always a future project of mine to buy an OG Ambull and field it as a Clawed Fiend, but I could never find one for the right price. Perhaps now I will not have to.
For WHQ players, that's not the worst: it looks like it comes with a lot of content. For just 40k, yeah, that's pretty nasty. It doesn't look that impressively large to justify the model price.
Umm, it's a really common board game expansion format, to have a new central baddie and ways of using it both in standard games and with scenarios.
On the miniatures side of things, Malifaux occasionally releases boxed sets that, starter set or no, have a bit more fluff and some scenarios besides competitive play, and Infinity has been doing character trios and special scenarios for a long time.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Umm, it's a really common board game expansion format, to have a new central baddie and ways of using it both in standard games and with scenarios.
On the miniatures side of things, Malifaux occasionally releases boxed sets that, starter set or no, have a bit more fluff and some scenarios besides competitive play, and Infinity has been doing character trios and special scenarios for a long time.
It's definitely a pretty common board game expansion type. I wouldn't be surprised if we also see expansions that add several new playable characters and some mission stuff at some point.
My issue is with the prince. $60 is too high for an expansion that adds a bad guy and a handful of cards.
I was a lock to buy it, but 60 is a tall order for just the ambull and minions (or whatever they end up being). I new hero would have made the pot much sweeter...
Good point - it would have been easier to deal with if it had a few more miniatures in it, especially if one of them was a new hero/playable character.
Kriswall wrote: My issue is with the prince. $60 is too high for an expansion that adds a bad guy and a handful of cards.
Knowing GW, it is more that one of the next expansions will be worth $60 and they are standardizing the expansion price against that, rather than this one being valued appropriately. It's like how the KT Commanders were all $35, even though some commanders were worth more individually and some were worth less (and some were worth way less).
They may sell the models separately at a later date, possibly a candidate for Necromunda? Doesn't that game have rules and guidelines for alien creatures?
spiralingcadaver wrote: Umm, it's a really common board game expansion format, to have a new central baddie and ways of using it both in standard games and with scenarios.
Actually, a really common board game expansion format is a baddie with some new adventurers--sometimes with new tiles...
Alpharius wrote: Good point - it would have been easier to deal with if it had a few more miniatures in it, especially if one of them was a new hero/playable character.
yeah a "Beastmaster" or a big game hunter would have been cool
Alpharius wrote: Good point - it would have been easier to deal with if it had a few more miniatures in it, especially if one of them was a new hero/playable character.
yeah a "Beastmaster" or a big game hunter would have been cool
Hmm, at $60 retail, that might be something to splurge on with an ebay coupon. Maybe if I end up loving the game I'll grab it, but it's a bit spendy for me.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Umm, it's a really common board game expansion format, to have a new central baddie and ways of using it both in standard games and with scenarios.
Actually, a really common board game expansion format is a baddie with some new adventurers--sometimes with new tiles...
I wouldn’t say one of those is more common than the other there..
I’ve bought plenty of expansions that are a single baddie and it’s scenarios (likewise character lacks with new scenarios).
While yes this is more expensive than those, I’d say it’s in line with GW, where their ‘board game prices’ are more, at the £100 mark.
More rules fragmentation, ugh. It's bad enough people can use single data sheets from Tooth and Claw, the Slaanesh/Khorne box and others but I can't believe we are continuing down the path of 7th ed that led to disaster. I seriously hope they put the rules online for 40k (but they didn't for the last few limited time boxsets). That being said, if you like Blackstone Fortress it's cool to get expansions.
As someone who plays Narrative missions almost exclusively, this guy is made for Deathwatch 'Movie Marines' games.
I sometimes find myself wanting something like the old Rogue Trader system for 40k- updated to be more similar to 8th edition, with a Gamesmaster, and more 'do whatever you want with this basic ruleset' kind of play. Maybe just a book with a whole buttload of game ideas.
So it looks like new heroes on the way via the Combat Arena game just announced
In fact, the set is a prequel to Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress, and that ancient structure has further perils in store for them – keep an eye out for them in an upcoming adventure pack…
Those models are stunning. The Rogue Trader set pales in comparison to these guys (and thats coming from someone who liked the Rogue Trader warbands)
I've been waiting for a plastic Crusader for so long. And a servitor, and the rest are just icing on the cake. The one thing I dread is the price.
Glad they're adding new heroes, and I really like the models (not a big fan of the paint scheme though).
I'm just concerned it won't be possible to get the minis and all the game elements (boardgame + blackstone stuff) without buying both items separately, and therefore having all the minis in duplicate.
I suppose it won't be too difficult to find the cards/tokens by themselves online, but I hope GW will make it possible to get all the stuff without duplicates.
DaveC wrote: I'd guess (hope) they are on one sprue that will get re-boxed as a WHQ:BSF set at a later point - I'll be waiting until then.
In fact, the set is a prequel to Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress, and that ancient structure has further perils in store for them – keep an eye out for them in an upcoming adventure pack...
So yeah, there'll be a Blackstone Fortress set for them at a later point.
The last word I got, they were mulling around new characters as well as generic templates for the folks that wanna bring in something like a Stormtrooper, Sister, Space Marine, Inquisitor, etc.
No way, particularly as that’s in line with what WHQ is, which it seems they want to get back to.
And with the Ambull pack as an expansion, character expansions were a,ways going to be coming.
Also remember, that this box likely won’t be in GW’s necessarily. The adventurer pack would be.
(As in this is more of a toy shop box. Waterstones style.. or seems like that to me..)
Awesome that BSF is getting the promised support from Gdubs. The admech and psyker are great. I like the Rogue traders pistols and that’s all I like about her, and the crusader is completely uninspired. Opportunity to do something cool, and dynamic, and they rehash the original pose, but in plastic....
SamusDrake wrote: That is a priceless picture - its evening hiding from him!
Glad to know that the Ambull is hostile to even Tyranids...very interesting indeed!
Whyt wouldn't it be?
Well, the Genestealers, in Rogue Trader, started off as a creature that originated from a solitary moon, but eventually they became part of the Tyranid hive fleets. With his additional ripper-swarm style Borewryms, the Ambull might have also been promoted to a Tyranid creature...
Y'know what? We've overlooked something about this release...and it answers one of life's mysteries; why was Princess Aura bricking it in Flash Gordon? Thanks to the Dreaded Ambull, we now know why!
That's 4 new characters, 2 new ships, either sold as a single expansion or two expansions.
Also looks very much like an Inquisitorial retinue. Which could be the gateway to an Inquisition Codex coming soon. We Know Assassins are coming soon too, and this would make sense
I'm definitely a fan of the new characters (though I'm not a fan of the Rogue Trader's goofy leg.......at least it's not a Sword like the Black Ark Fleetmaster), but I'm curious if the BSF rules will be in Combat Arena. It would be kind of neat if you got the BSF rules in Combat Arena as a bonus, but I'm suspecting we'll have to wait for the BSF expansion pack containing them.
Also, nice to see an Inquisition character for BSF. Still holding out hope for an Inq. Stormtrooper at some point.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Well... like an Inquisitorial retinue, if not for the Rogue Trader.
Not sure why the Rogue Trader would make it not like an Inquisitorial retinue as the fluff has Rogue Traders frequently working with Inquisitors. Cynia Preest of the Hinterlight and Inquisitor Ravenor spring to mind as the most ready example of that. Toss in an Inquisitor and an Interrogator and you've got pretty close to the typically-described inner-circle.
Sabotage! wrote: I'm definitely a fan of the new characters (though I'm not a fan of the Rogue Trader's goofy leg.......at least it's not a Sword like the Black Ark Fleetmaster), but I'm curious if the BSF rules will be in Combat Arena. It would be kind of neat if you got the BSF rules in Combat Arena as a bonus, but I'm suspecting we'll have to wait for the BSF expansion pack containing them.
Yeah, I'm confused about that as well. The models are great, but will there be two separate boxes with them, one for the Arena and another for BSF?
Sabotage! wrote: I'm definitely a fan of the new characters (though I'm not a fan of the Rogue Trader's goofy leg.......at least it's not a Sword like the Black Ark Fleetmaster), but I'm curious if the BSF rules will be in Combat Arena. It would be kind of neat if you got the BSF rules in Combat Arena as a bonus, but I'm suspecting we'll have to wait for the BSF expansion pack containing them.
Yeah, I'm confused about that as well. The models are great, but will there be two separate boxes with them, one for the Arena and another for BSF?
That would be a travesty. I can't imagine how frustrated someone would be if he has to buy a second box cotaining the same models only to get the rules for them in BSF
Sabotage! wrote: I'm definitely a fan of the new characters (though I'm not a fan of the Rogue Trader's goofy leg.......at least it's not a Sword like the Black Ark Fleetmaster), but I'm curious if the BSF rules will be in Combat Arena. It would be kind of neat if you got the BSF rules in Combat Arena as a bonus, but I'm suspecting we'll have to wait for the BSF expansion pack containing them.
Yeah, I'm confused about that as well. The models are great, but will there be two separate boxes with them, one for the Arena and another for BSF?
That's what it sounds like but they're trying to make it clear.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: The last word I got, they were mulling around new characters as well as generic templates for the folks that wanna bring in something like a Stormtrooper, Sister, Space Marine, Inquisitor, etc.
That would be great - would be nice to get a closer to the background Marine soloing it up in BSF!
streetsamurai wrote: That would be a travesty. I can't imagine how frustrated someone would be if he has to buy a second box cotaining the same models only to get the rules for them in BSF
There will almost certainly be an Ambull style box for those characters. Perhaps there will also be a miniature-less rules box, but I very much doubt they'll pack all those extra pieces of cardboard BSF requires into something that's meant to sit on a supermarket shelf.
Actually, what they said was " keep an eye out for them in an upcoming adventure pack…", which says to me that they will be sold separately in a BSF pack, and that their rules will be in that rather than allowing you to use the Combat Arena miniatures directly.
Actually, what they said was " keep an eye out for them in an upcoming adventure pack…", which says to me that they will be sold separately in a BSF pack, and that their rules will be in that rather than allowing you to use the Combat Arena miniatures directly.
Depending on the price it might be worth picking up Combat Arena to have spares for when the BSF expansion models get damaged/suffer a catasrophic painting fail.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: Female RT foot is a answer to previous rumor engine. Doing this on xbox. Wont let me save images
Can anyone post the pics please?
I’ve almost given up guessing, they pick things that - particularly in grey scale - could end up being for anything.
And it’s done in just such a way that everyone thinks it Must be one thing, then it can just be something else.
The suggestion that $60 is the price for the Ambull because it is potentially a standard expansion price would make sense if the Combat Arena heroes are meant to be an expansion as well. 5 models and cards would be a far more acceptable content for that price point.
Danny76 wrote: I’ve almost given up guessing, they pick things that - particularly in grey scale - could end up being for anything.
And it’s done in just such a way that everyone thinks it Must be one thing, then it can just be something else.
True, but if you can't even figure out what something is supposed to be, then it's less a teaser and more a garbled pic of... something. I mean the recent Chaos previews are readily identifiable even if we don't specifically know what they're for: One is clearly the back of a power armour backpack, another is a claw, and another is a heavy bolter. That blade leg was... nothing... when taken out of context.
And look, sometimes that's fun. Sometimes finding out where something fits on the puzzle can be interesting, but teasers, IMO, work better when you can get a sense of what they're teasing, even if you're not entirely sure what it is or what the full form looks like.
MajorWesJanson wrote: The suggestion that $60 is the price for the Ambull because it is potentially a standard expansion price would make sense if the Combat Arena heroes are meant to be an expansion as well. 5 models and cards would be a far more acceptable content for that price point.
I take issue with expansions costing more than 1/3rd the cost of the initial box but, if we're looking at this as a comparison between those 5 and the Ambull, I would have to agree with you.
Agreed.
These chaos ones are great, we still have no clue what they’re for, but we kind of know what they are at least.
A few of the crazy bait and switch ones are cool too, but it’s rare to get ones like the new CSM backpack for instance
That's 4 new characters, 2 new ships, either sold as a single expansion or two expansions.
Also looks very much like an Inquisitorial retinue. Which could be the gateway to an Inquisition Codex coming soon. We Know Assassins are coming soon too, and this would make sense
-
Crusaders are also part of the Sisters of Battle dex (and Guard), Tech Priests and Servitors are all over the place.
I do like the new models and support - well except for the Rogue Trader - glad I have the others.
That's 4 new characters, 2 new ships, either sold as a single expansion or two expansions.
Also looks very much like an Inquisitorial retinue. Which could be the gateway to an Inquisition Codex coming soon. We Know Assassins are coming soon too, and this would make sense
-
I wouldn’t go expecting a (Spanish) Inquisition. They use surprise ....
H.B.M.C. wrote: True, but if you can't even figure out what something is supposed to be, then it's less a teaser and more a garbled pic of... something. I mean the recent Chaos previews are readily identifiable even if we don't specifically know what they're for: One is clearly the back of a power armour backpack, another is a claw, and another is a heavy bolter. That blade leg was... nothing... when taken out of context.
And look, sometimes that's fun. Sometimes finding out where something fits on the puzzle can be interesting, but teasers, IMO, work better when you can get a sense of what they're teasing, even if you're not entirely sure what it is or what the full form looks like.
couldn't agree more.
A lot of them look like absolutely nothing or are so generic (a rope) that they don't give any indication of what the model is supposed to be, so I pretty much stopped looking at them
Agamemnon2 wrote: I think I threw up a little just looking at that image.
Excellent work, Guardsman! Your revulsion of the Xenos is clearly strong and pure. Your name has been submitted to your superior to receive an extra tin of Ambull meat with your rations.
Maybe when we see it from the back, we'll be able to understand / appreciate it a little better? Or at least, be able to see more easily, and *clip* our concerns away?
Can’t remember whether we discussed it on here in the end, but did anyone ever read the novel by Hinks?
I’m 3/4 in right now, actually really enjoying it. Solid read. Nice and different from the usual far future grimness.. Which is to say a different kind of grimness, as opposed to none..
One issue I'm finding with BSF is that the models are pretty fragile. A guy broke my Eldar's rifle the very first time he touched it and it's going to be a job to repair. I keep them all in foam. If they were just loose in the box with all the card they'd be smashed to pieces.
I say this because I look at that rogue trader's pistol and, while it's awesome, it's clearly going to be literally the weakest thing in the world.
Mine also broke - a dab of polystyrene cement and some support to keep it straight while it set and it's been good as new. Failing that, an 0.5mm pin and a steady hand should help.
I've been transporting the heroes in the small GW carry case with no issues.
The BSF models are really nice all round and have quickly become some of my favourites. The new offering from these two expansions are keeping the trend going. Hopefully any future BSF related releases will match up.
The servo skull loading the revolver is just beautifully 40k.
Snrub wrote: Pretty stoked about the Ambull and Combat Arena.
The BSF models are really nice all round and have quickly become some of my favourites. The new offering from these two expansions are keeping the trend going. Hopefully any future BSF related releases will match up.
The servo skull loading the revolver is just beautifully 40k.
I'm excited about combat arena models, and also by the thought that these are backdoor ways to get less demanded models in plastic- there may be less demand for things like ratlings/urghuls/servitors in plastic, but they already have the digital assets ready, so it would cost less than starting a project from scratch...
Traitor guard are already 70% of the way to an infantry squad. round it out to a full 10 man box, add a command squad, and a sprue of vehicle upgrades, then some rules tweaks on the scale of Brood Brothers, and bam, new Chaos army for release.
Hero or villian sets also seem like ways to generate asset libraries for further plastic kits later. There is now an eldar pathfinder in plastic, next time could see something like a corsair captain, or striking scorpion or swooping hawk exarch as a character, a necron cryptek trying to recover certain devices, or a small band of world eaters with a lord, a trio of berzerkers, and a flesh hound or two as an enemy pack.
I don't see any rules for the sett 7 bio-containment facility in the rulebook. I guess all it does is convert spoor and trail discovery cards into their respective counters. How does the facility flip from "under construction" to "completed" though, and what's the point gameplay wise?
It flips when you complete the Ambull hunt mini-Expedition successfully. As for what it does once constructed, that's in the envelope:
Spoiler:
It contains three objects you can buy, as if it were another ship in the Precipice trade phase. One of 'em lets you cure a Grievous Wound during an Expedition, although it's a single-use item.
Commissars and Ogryns are some of the most intimidating warriors of the Astra Militarum. Both are rightly respected and feared by other soldiers in the Guard for wildly different reasons – the former for their iron discipline and utter fearlessness and the latter for their brute strength and dogged, simple faith in the Emperor. And when they turn traitor… well…
Traitor Command is a new adventure pack for Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress that sees you descend into darkness to crush a growing Chaos threat. You’ll face terrifying new hostiles with the Traitor Commissar and Chaos Ogryn, find strange and powerful new gear, and forge alliances with unlikely friends in Precipice…
Like The Dreaded Ambull, Traitor Command can be tackled as an expedition in its own right or added to your main set to add even more challenge to your other quests. For you Chaos fans out there, both the Traitor Commissar and Chaos Ogryn will be receiving datasheets for adding them to your Warhammer 40,000 army.
Always wanted to use the chaos cultist leader from Dark Vengeance as a chaos commissar. And now he's getting rules?
Fantastic. Blackstone fortress may be the best thing to happen to 40k in years.
Wording on Warhammer Community suggests this will include additional rules and some (likely off-board) allies, so game wise may offer may value than we currently expect.
Very cool Models, but yeah. The Ambull was too expensive for me to drop $60+ dollars on, these guys would (tops) be worth about $30 to me. Maybe it's because I have a full LatD army, or because I have much nicer forge world Chaos Ogryn & Traitor Guard, but, I'm not overpaying for these models, despite how good Blackstone is to play.
Commissar/Ogryn and the Ambull? $100 character packs. GW need to up their game here. These BSF expansions aren't worth the money.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Wording on Warhammer Community suggests this will include additional rules and some (likely off-board) allies, so game wise may offer may value than we currently expect.
Great. It's still going to be AUD$98 for two miniatures.
I don't remember how much those adventure packs for Warhammer Quest retailed for. But, obviously, a similar thing would be much more expensive today. Even just due to inflation. I suppose we'd be around $100 for 5 or 6 enemy models, a couple board tiles, and cards.
And let's be realistic about hero packs. They'd have to be at least $40, right? Because they'd eventually want to sell the character on it's own without the Blackstone Fortress rules for $30 or $35.
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My bad
They use surprise ....
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