ArcaneHorror wrote: The daemon blade looks pretty cool, but I'm not sure if the heavy chainaxe is worth it, with it hitting on fours.
Heavy disagree. It's another way to bring multidamage into melee, and I'm 90% sure rerolls/extra attacks will be found in the codex.
Yeah, its basically a trooper's (non-sergeant's) powerfist, and that has happened before in other books (previous editions BT, BA). With 3 attacks base +buffs, I'd agree its probably worth it. Wound other marines on 2+, they only save on 6. Pretty good odds of killing two marines outright, extremely good odds of 1.
Will add my own +1 to this. I love using the plague version of these on my plague marines. A personal best was having two of them chop through two redemptor dreads in the space of two rounds of combat! This was with a +1 to hit buff. When I can add rerolling 1s to that they can do a lot of work, but are very swingy. Lots of fun, but not dependable.
Remember when demon weapons used to have small downside to compensate for greater power and make them slightly less of an auto-take?
My bad, we don't do these anymore, having to think spoiled netlisting/cherrypicking too much and gave the players weird ideas like CSM being damned slaves to uncaring masters instead of Chaos Clauses showering them with bonuses with no strings attached
Mostly because most of them weren't really all that greatly powerful and as a result tended towards not being taken at all because the penalties made any power worthless to consider. This isn't rogue trader or 2nd edition where you can get away with that sort of thing anymore. Because having your HQ not get any attacks at all for the round and take a wound is just not going to cut it at all. "Fun" as they were at times.
ArcaneHorror wrote: The daemon blade looks pretty cool, but I'm not sure if the heavy chainaxe is worth it, with it hitting on fours.
Heavy disagree. It's another way to bring multidamage into melee, and I'm 90% sure rerolls/extra attacks will be found in the codex.
Yeah, its basically a trooper's (non-sergeant's) powerfist, and that has happened before in other books (previous editions BT, BA). With 3 attacks base +buffs, I'd agree its probably worth it. Wound other marines on 2+, they only save on 6. Pretty good odds of killing two marines outright, extremely good odds of 1.
Will add my own +1 to this. I love using the plague version of these on my plague marines. A personal best was having two of them chop through two redemptor dreads in the space of two rounds of combat! This was with a +1 to hit buff. When I can add rerolling 1s to that they can do a lot of work, but are very swingy. Lots of fun, but not dependable.
I WILL disagree on Plague Marines though. They have too low an attack count to get use of the cleaver thing.
GaroRobe wrote: Do we think some of the kill team will replace models instead of being a unit upgrade? Like the balefire acolyte replaces a unit champion?
Personally, I’d love a acolyte to serve as a squad leader, just for fluff reasons
Rumours say that the one with the deamon blade is the AC
I don't know... If for a squad of 5 we have: The AC, Heavy weapon guy, Special weapon guy, the acolyte and the heavy chainaxe guy. It looks pretty balanced to me. Like they are a squad of unique and diverse veterans of the long war.
GaroRobe wrote: Do we think some of the kill team will replace models instead of being a unit upgrade? Like the balefire acolyte replaces a unit champion?
Personally, I’d love a acolyte to serve as a squad leader, just for fluff reasons
They're upgrades. It's just the same ten CSM from the current kit with a collection of "Malibu Stacy's New Hats", as H.B.M.C puts it.
EviscerationPlague wrote: I WILL disagree on Plague Marines though. They have too low an attack count to get use of the cleaver thing.
You think? They now have 3 attacks with it, which I think is enough to make it worthwhile. It was a no-go in 8th edition because it was only 1 attack.
Plague Marines are A2 aren't they?
Every Plague Marine wields a Plague Knife and 1 in 5 can trade a boltgun for the Cleaver. This means they're wielding 2 Melee Plague Weapons and thus go to 3A.
Quick update from Chris over in the thread on B&C that basically he's got an info dump on god specific stuff and it looks like it'll be the bread and butter of the army but at his sources request he can't leak any more until such time as the book is in other leakers/previewers hands.
Dudeface wrote: Quick update from Chris over in the thread on B&C that basically he's got an info dump on god specific stuff and it looks like it'll be the bread and butter of the army but at his sources request he can't leak any more until such time as the book is in other leakers/previewers hands.
That's nice to know. Personally, I'd like to know more about the "support" Clockworkchris mentioned for Unmarked units, as the rumored "Unmarked only" custom trait is the one that most interests me. But I'm sure all will be revealed eventually.
Shame, but I guess they don't want to make Warp Talons less relevant by letting you run lighting claw/bolt pistol.
How, exactly, would having one lighting claw, in an entire squad of Raptors, make Warp Talons, who have two lighting claws on every single squad member, "less relevant"?
Shame, but I guess they don't want to make Warp Talons less relevant by letting you run lighting claw/bolt pistol.
How, exactly, would having one lighting claw, in an entire squad of Raptors, make Warp Talons, who have two lighting claws on every single squad member, "less relevant"?
Sorry, my brain was thinking of every member getting a single lighting claw and a bolt pistol that you could trade for other gun options for some reason.
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
And I'm assuming not for Warp Talons either considering 5 base attacks?
Eh, same profile. Only question is whether or not they still reroll wounds. I think I remember Clockworkchris saying that they were renamed "Warp Claws" or something, but still worked the same. It sounds like "rending claws syndrome".
Edit: It seems that they just rolled the additional attacks into the base profile. Probably for simplicities sake.
NL relics
-claws of the black hunt are back but jave been renamed, S+1 ap3 D2, does not gain reroll wounds instead gains ennemies canoot use rules that ignore wounds
-vox daemonicus is 12" no deepstrike & ennemies must pass a leadership test or cannot perform actions or psychic actions
- flayer is still there and seem to be exactly the same
If you want a laugh, leaker pointed out in terms of weapons names the book is a mess. Lightning claws appear 3 times under different names
-Warpclaws (for warp talons, dont worry they -are lightning claws in everything but name)
Accursed weapons
-And actual lightning claws
Emphasis mine. I have no idea how this makes sense.
It also appears that there is only 1 mode of firing a plasma pistol. If this is the case there is no chance of overload damage. Or am I reading that chart incorrectly?
Leo_the_Rat wrote: It also appears that there is only 1 mode of firing a plasma pistol. If this is the case there is no chance of overload damage. Or am I reading that chart incorrectly?
I don't think any of the box datasheets have had Overcharged Plasma on them, only safe mode.
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
This is far too close to how I imagine they've designed CSM since 3.5. I know they've been powerful at times but the blandification and rigidity of their unit entries has been painful.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: It also appears that there is only 1 mode of firing a plasma pistol. If this is the case there is no chance of overload damage. Or am I reading that chart incorrectly?
No that's just the simplified no special rule stats these assembly instructions have. No dual profiles as no rule saying you only use one at a time.
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Yup. Completely idiotic. Because it doesn't even conform to GW's moronic "no model, no rules" paradigm, because the kit contains TEN lightning claws. It's completely arbitrary, and removes an option that's been available to Raptor Aspiring Champions for 23 years, since the very inception of the unit.
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Yup. Completely idiotic. Because it doesn't even conform to GW's moronic "no model, no rules" paradigm, because the kit contains TEN lightning claws. It's completely arbitrary, and removes an option that's been available to Raptor Aspiring Champions for 23 years, since the very inception of the unit.
"No silly, those aren't Lightning Claws they're Warp Claws. Completely different weapons, I promise!" - GW, probably definitely
That's amateur hour compared to Scything Talons...
Spoiler:
Well the Hive Tyrant and the Winged Hive Tyrant have Monstrous Scything Talons, but the Winged Hive Tyrant also has 'Tyrant Claws', which are very similar but not quite the same. The Tyranid Prime has Scything Talons. The Tervigon has Massive Scything Talons. The Trygon Prime has Trygon Scything Talons, which are Scything Talons yet don't have the same rules. Old One Eye is back to Monstrous Scything Talons. Tyranid Warriors, like the Prime, get regular Scything Talons. Hormagaunts have... Hormagaunt Talons. Sure! Why not? Let's add another weapon type. But we're not done. Tyrant Guard have Scything Talons. Lictors/Deathleapers have 'Lictor Claws and Talons' rather than actual distinct weapons now. So Talons, but more differenter Talons. Maleceptor has those Massive Scything Talons. The Scything Talons Genestealers used to get have been folded into their regular weapons like Lictors. Raveners have 2 Scything Talons and something called Ravener Claws (not to be confused with Rending Claws, which they can also get!), which are the smaller Talons that now aren't actually Talons. Totally not confusing. Trygons have Trygon Scything Talons, like the Trygon Prime. The Mawloc has Mawloc Scything Talons, which are different to all the other Scything Talons. The Exocrine, a model that very clearly has smaller Scything Talons, has 'Powerful Limbs'. What's visual consistency anyway? Carnifex has Carnifex Scything Talons. Screamer Killers have Screamer Killer Scything Talons. Thornbacks have... Thornback Scything Talons? No! Wrong! They also have Carnifex Scything Talons, because that makes total sense and is completely consistent, right?
And lets not even talk about the amount of different types of Bolter.
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Yup. Completely idiotic. Because it doesn't even conform to GW's moronic "no model, no rules" paradigm, because the kit contains TEN lightning claws. It's completely arbitrary, and removes an option that's been available to Raptor Aspiring Champions for 23 years, since the very inception of the unit.
Let's not throw the warp spawn out with the bathwater. The datasheets are good reference points, but don't always have all the options the units do so it's possible the Aspiring Champ will still have LCs.
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Yup. Completely idiotic. Because it doesn't even conform to GW's moronic "no model, no rules" paradigm, because the kit contains TEN lightning claws. It's completely arbitrary, and removes an option that's been available to Raptor Aspiring Champions for 23 years, since the very inception of the unit.
Let's not throw the warp spawn out with the bathwater. The datasheets are good reference points, but don't always have all the options the units do so it's possible the Aspiring Champ will still have LCs.
Really? Which 9th edition instruction sheets haven't included all of the available options? Because I've been hoping that a lot of the, "weirdness", in these leaks was down to them being early playtest rules. But the leak for Raptors said that the Aspiring Champion could take a plasma pistol, power fist, or power sword. And here it is, in print.
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Yup. Completely idiotic. Because it doesn't even conform to GW's moronic "no model, no rules" paradigm, because the kit contains TEN lightning claws. It's completely arbitrary, and removes an option that's been available to Raptor Aspiring Champions for 23 years, since the very inception of the unit.
Let's not throw the warp spawn out with the bathwater. The datasheets are good reference points, but don't always have all the options the units do so it's possible the Aspiring Champ will still have LCs.
Really? Which 9th edition instruction sheets haven't included all of the available options? Because I've been hoping that a lot of the, "weirdness", in these leaks was down to them being early playtest rules. But the leak for Raptors said that the Aspiring Champion could take a plasma pistol, power fist, or power sword. And here it is, in print.
Yeah. I think it's time we accept that not much changed since the "early playtest rules". We can't really bury our heads in the sand any longer
It'll be a shame if I have to scrap my plans for a 9 Legions project and sell my CSM. As bad as things got in previous editions I've only ever binned horrifically broken models, never sold anything off. Hell, there are models in my current Black Legion force that are repaints of my Word Bearers from when 6th dropped.
But if things haven't changed from those first load of leaks then I'm done with the army.
Gert wrote: It'll be a shame if I have to scrap my plans for a 9 Legions project and sell my CSM. As bad as things got in previous editions I've only ever binned horrifically broken models, never sold anything off. Hell, there are models in my current Black Legion force that are repaints of my Word Bearers from when 6th dropped.
But if things haven't changed from those first load of leaks then I'm done with the army.
Cool more blandness, can't have creativity cause reasons.....
I swear if they confirm the "no jet pack for lords and sorcerers", I'm not buying this codex. Im still holding out hope that was just an early playtest thing or maybe the Lord/Sorcerer with Jetpack/Wings is a separate entry. But the more that gets confirmed the more I fear that its true.
So far all my Chosen are now non-legal, all my terms are non-legal, and my 20 man csm blobs need broken into smaller units but at least theyre still playable
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Yup. Completely idiotic. Because it doesn't even conform to GW's moronic "no model, no rules" paradigm, because the kit contains TEN lightning claws. It's completely arbitrary, and removes an option that's been available to Raptor Aspiring Champions for 23 years, since the very inception of the unit.
Let's not throw the warp spawn out with the bathwater. The datasheets are good reference points, but don't always have all the options the units do so it's possible the Aspiring Champ will still have LCs.
Really? Which 9th edition instruction sheets haven't included all of the available options? Because I've been hoping that a lot of the, "weirdness", in these leaks was down to them being early playtest rules. But the leak for Raptors said that the Aspiring Champion could take a plasma pistol, power fist, or power sword. And here it is, in print.
Yeah. I think it's time we accept that not much changed since the "early playtest rules". We can't really bury our heads in the sand any longer
Yeah, as more stuff gets confirmed, the more it looks like the stuff that we were hoping wouldn't make it into the final codex will.
Gert wrote:It'll be a shame if I have to scrap my plans for a 9 Legions project and sell my CSM. As bad as things got in previous editions I've only ever binned horrifically broken models, never sold anything off. Hell, there are models in my current Black Legion force that are repaints of my Word Bearers from when 6th dropped.
But if things haven't changed from those first load of leaks then I'm done with the army.
Done with the army?
If all of this is true, and my Night Lords can't be led by a psychopath with a pair of jet engines strapped to his back like they've been for the last 20 years, then I'm done with the game.
I didn't like the rumours but chalked it up to early versions or inaccurate reporting but it's looking to be more true.
I just can't be bothered with another edition where I play at the start, get absolutely dunked on by every other army then eventually get a supplement book that makes it worth playing again. I've done it in 6th, 7th and 8th so far and my positivity has only so much fuel.
If all of this is true, and my Night Lords can't be led by a psychopath with a pair of jet engines strapped to his back like they've been for the last 20 years, then I'm done with the game.
I still have my Drukhari that I enjoy using, and sort of my Deathwatch. My main game is HH but if that turns out to be a bolthole then I'll be stuck using the old ruleset with nothing to look forward to for either of the systems I play.
The Tyranid Codex had me giddy with excitement. It didn't look like we were losing all that much (basically no model/no rule stuff on Tyrants, and some typical GW pendulum-swinging overbalancing of certain units) but gaining tons. There are problems with it (12 types of Scything Talons, needless change that prevents Tyrannofexes from going in pods, making spores kinda junk, how the various synapse-related rules don't really interact with one another in a consistent fashion, the Crusade rules are a little on the shallow side even if they do a good job at emphasising the swarm composition during different stages of a Tyranid invasion, etc.), but overall I feel it was a truly great Tyranid Codex - the first one I've felt good about in many'a edition.
On the other hand, from the word go this new Chaos Codex has terrified me, as it appeared directionless or just trying to emulate Chapter Tactics without any real reason or with any cohesion ("You are the... *throws dice*scary Legion, and you get exploding sixes on... *spins wheel*pistols during the... *throws dart*assault phase!") all the while removing option after option after option, and all for no good reason. Not even being able to take claws on a Raptor Champ is just another in a seemingly endless line of flavour-reducing, option-removing, blandifying, Jervisifying changes that drive me up the fething wall.
Contrast that to the most recent Chaos Codex - Thousand Sons - which seem to revitalise them as a stand-alone force, and restructure them to make them a more cohesive force with tons of different options*.
*Yes, I know, not all those options are effective in "the meta", but I don't give two feths about that.
Gert wrote: I didn't like the rumours but chalked it up to early versions or inaccurate reporting but it's looking to be more true.
If all of this is true, and my Night Lords can't be led by a psychopath with a pair of jet engines strapped to his back like they've been for the last 20 years, then I'm done with the game.
Y'know, my very small circle has mostly gotten into modding old editions since early 9th has continued to go nuts, and I feel like it's been good for our lives, since we don't play tournaments anyway.
You miss out on the fun new stuff and the game getting shaken up with a new version every so often (though as seen right here, I at least am still keeping up on the conversation a bit), but you can treat 40k as a sandbox (modding things as conservatively or freely as you feel like) which is really where we at least enjoy the game since it's never been very competitively balanced, anyway. No feeling like you need to keep up with the rules, and if there's some new shiny kit that you'd just love to play with, chances are in the history of 40k units there's an easy way to proxy it or use existing pieces as a pretty easy template.
I have waited and continue to do so. If when this had all started like 6 months ago or whatever I'd just dumped my CSM that would have been an overreaction and extremely childish.
Now we're closer to the date, I don't like what I'm seeing but I'm still waiting for the Codex to come out because, in the end, this is not a life or death situation. I will see what reviews of the Codex say from sources I trust to be fair and I'll maybe even pick up the book to try it out. I'll be sad if I end up selling my CSM but I'm not quitting 40k because of it.
I have waited and continue to do so. If when this had all started like 6 months ago or whatever I'd just dumped my CSM that would have been an overreaction and extremely childish.
Now we're closer to the date, I don't like what I'm seeing but I'm still waiting for the Codex to come out because, in the end, this is not a life or death situation. I will see what reviews of the Codex say from sources I trust to be fair and I'll maybe even pick up the book to try it out. I'll be sad if I end up selling my CSM but I'm not quitting 40k because of it.
It really is too early to say if they'll be "good" if that's the metric that breaks the camels back.
Whether an army is good or not is, in my mind, unrelated to what the army is. If an army is super effective on the table yet is bland, optionless, flavourless, colourless, and lots of other words that mean roughly the same thing, then who cares if its "good" other than insane tournament players?
Harlequins are a "good" army, but I doubt the people who wrote the book envisioned that the "good" version of that army would have 9 Voidweavers.
If all of this is true, and my Night Lords can't be led by a psychopath with a pair of jet engines strapped to his back like they've been for the last 20 years, then I'm done with the game.
Y'know, my very small circle has mostly gotten into modding old editions since early 9th has continued to go nuts, and I feel like it's been good for our lives, since we don't play tournaments anyway.
You miss out on the fun new stuff and the game getting shaken up with a new version every so often (though as seen right here, I at least am still keeping up on the conversation a bit), but you can treat 40k as a sandbox (modding things as conservatively or freely as you feel like) which is really where we at least enjoy the game since it's never been very competitively balanced, anyway. No feeling like you need to keep up with the rules, and if there's some new shiny kit that you'd just love to play with, chances are in the history of 40k units there's an easy way to proxy it or use existing pieces as a pretty easy template.
Oh, I didn't mean that I was done playing with my army, just "official gw 9th edition 40k". I'll definitely be trying to get people turned on to older editions, Grimdark Future, or something. There's plenty of other games that my models will work just fine in.
Gert wrote:I still have my Drukhari that I enjoy using, and sort of my Deathwatch. My main game is HH but if that turns out to be a bolthole then I'll be stuck using the old ruleset with nothing to look forward to for either of the systems I play.
Yeah, well my other army is R&H, and we both know how that worked out, don't we?
ClockworkZion wrote: Let's not throw the warp spawn out with the bathwater. The datasheets are good reference points, but don't always have all the options the units do so it's possible the Aspiring Champ will still have LCs.
Really? Which 9th edition instruction sheets haven't included all of the available options? Because I've been hoping that a lot of the, "weirdness", in these leaks was down to them being early playtest rules. But the leak for Raptors said that the Aspiring Champion could take a plasma pistol, power fist, or power sword. And here it is, in print.
Monopose boyz, for example. The datasheet only has the options from the box listed (PK and big choppa), but the nob can still take the full array of equipment from the nobz box like killsaws, powa stabbas or kombi-weapons.
Dudeface wrote: It really is too early to say if they'll be "good" if that's the metric that breaks the camels back.
It's more down to the army being fun to play.
In 6th with my CSM, I went heavily into Nurgle fielding loads of "converted" Plague Marines, Obliterators, and very cursed Chaos Spawn. I lost all the time but I had more fun than with my Orks because I could do some really dumb things with Chaos Marks and Relics and stuff.
When I swapped to Daemonkin in 7th, I didn't rack up more wins than I did with CSM but the mechanics of the army were loads of fun and losing didn't feel like losing because my dead units gave me points to use the cool table the army had. Khorne marked Daemon Knights in a KDK list was just buckets of fun because I either butchered the enemy or blew up the enemy and got a lot of "Blood for the Blood God" points.
Likewise, I am not winning games in 9th with my Deathwatch but I still have fun with the army, in fact, it's the one army I actually like using Strategems on for things like Brotherhood of Veterans for maximum Flesh Tearers angery, Teleporting in Aggressors for some roasting times, or doubling my Auto bolt Rifles shooting for maximum *brrrrrt*. I haven't quite found that with Drukhari yet but I do need to play them more often.
ClockworkZion wrote: Let's not throw the warp spawn out with the bathwater. The datasheets are good reference points, but don't always have all the options the units do so it's possible the Aspiring Champ will still have LCs.
Really? Which 9th edition instruction sheets haven't included all of the available options? Because I've been hoping that a lot of the, "weirdness", in these leaks was down to them being early playtest rules. But the leak for Raptors said that the Aspiring Champion could take a plasma pistol, power fist, or power sword. And here it is, in print.
Monopose boyz, for example. The datasheet only has the options from the box listed (PK and big choppa), but the nob can still take the full array of equipment from the nobz box like killsaws, powa stabbas or kombi-weapons.
Ok, but in this case, the omitted weapon option is in the box listed. Ten of them, to be exact. Kinda weird that they wouldn't put them in the instructions then, isn't it? Unless the option has been removed, for "Reasons".
Dudeface wrote: It really is too early to say if they'll be "good" if that's the metric that breaks the camels back.
It's more down to the army being fun to play.
In 6th with my CSM, I went heavily into Nurgle fielding loads of "converted" Plague Marines, Obliterators, and very cursed Chaos Spawn. I lost all the time but I had more fun than with my Orks because I could do some really dumb things with Chaos Marks and Relics and stuff.
When I swapped to Daemonkin in 7th, I didn't rack up more wins than I did with CSM but the mechanics of the army were loads of fun and losing didn't feel like losing because my dead units gave me points to use the cool table the army had. Khorne marked Daemon Knights in a KDK list was just buckets of fun because I either butchered the enemy or blew up the enemy and got a lot of "Blood for the Blood God" points.
Likewise, I am not winning games in 9th with my Deathwatch but I still have fun with the army, in fact, it's the one army I actually like using Strategems on for things like Brotherhood of Veterans for maximum Flesh Tearers angery, Teleporting in Aggressors for some roasting times, or doubling my Auto bolt Rifles shooting for maximum *brrrrrt*. I haven't quite found that with Drukhari yet but I do need to play them more often.
That's more than fair, it needs to be something you'll enjoy using and if it's a turn off in the rumoured iteration that's more than understandable. I would just say that permeance is not a big thing for GW at the best of times though and there's inevitably going to be a new codex within 3 years that's likely got different mechanics, so maybe better to store the army than sell it?
Maybe, but they barely got used in 8th and I've used them once in 9th so far. Another 3 years in storage isn't really doing any good.
But like I said, waiting for the Codex for the final verdict.
in bolter and chainsword they are saying that the coin of may is chaos, and the miniature a blackstone cultist. I don't know if monopose or the new multicomponent models
zamerion wrote: in bolter and chainsword they are saying that the coin of may is chaos, and the miniature a blackstone cultist. I don't know if monopose or the new multicomponent models
The... coin of may? Is that some new thing I missed, or am I being a jerk and pointing out a typo?
zamerion wrote: in bolter and chainsword they are saying that the coin of may is chaos, and the miniature a blackstone cultist. I don't know if monopose or the new multicomponent models
The... coin of may? Is that some new thing I missed, or am I being a jerk and pointing out a typo?
The little metal token you get when buying for a certain amount at GW shop.
zamerion wrote: in bolter and chainsword they are saying that the coin of may is chaos, and the miniature a blackstone cultist. I don't know if monopose or the new multicomponent models
The... coin of may? Is that some new thing I missed, or am I being a jerk and pointing out a typo?
GW has been doing monthly faction coins in their stores. (and B&C says May is some flavor of chaos, which tbh could just be knights)
Sometimes release schedules and a lack of outside problems match up and a new codex comes out the same month as the faction coin, so people sometimes think they're indicators of an upcoming release.
A plastic Daemon Prince, hopefully with various head, accessory and weapon options. Wouldn't that be nice.
I was also thinking of getting another Daemon Prince to make my 'Your Dudes' Daemon Prince Character - former Ultramarines Excommunicate Traitoris Captain Horatio Lethus, a Khone-dedicated Tau-obsessed Daemon Prince cursed to have the Wailing Doom of Ulthwe forever bonded to his right arm. Was going to use a spare sword from the new Avatar to do it... now I might have a better base to start with than the current DP.
chaos0xomega wrote: current DP and Belakor are dual kits so makes sense this would be too. Hoping for 100mm base like the character DPs
"Dual kits" is a little bit of a stretch, especially in Be'lakor's case.
chaos0xomega wrote:current DP and Belakor are dual kits so makes sense this would be too. Hoping for 100mm base like the character DPs
I would not like that, as it would force me to rebase all the princes I already have. I like the fact that a new model is coming out, but I don't want any major changes in the size.
CMLR wrote: Would've prefered them to try the Build-A-Daemon from TWWH3.
There may be more options in the box that we haven't seen yet. I was actually thinking that a new prince model might be coming out due to Total War, and the fact that we hadn't heard about it in the 40k rumors is that it's linked to an AOS release. Turns out I was right.
I hope this is a dedicated AOSDP kit and we get a 40k one in the future. Would prefer one that lives up to the Juan Diaz DP legacy rather than a handful of plastic 40k-specific components to plonk over a daemon's frame.
Marshal Loss wrote: I hope this is a dedicated AOSDP kit and we get a 40k one in the future. Would prefer one that lives up to the Juan Diaz DP legacy rather than a handful of plastic 40k-specific components to plonk over a daemon's frame.
I'd see no harm in that, even then the AoS could still be used if wished assuming weapons/options fit.
Voss wrote: That's... a lot.
Warcraft Joker Hellboy Prince.
Eh, GW paintjobs aren't ever meant to be good, just enough to show all the details. It's one of the few things I don't fault them for.
I don't agree with that at all. They are meant to be good, but often don't photograph well (or they have lousy photographers). Not showing off details is often a problem, especially on busy models like this one, where the black legion style black and bronze is sitting on top of layers of metal skulls, and then half the surfaces are also obscured by actual skulls.
looks like thats going to be a dual kit, the armor its wearing is CSM-ish in its shape and detailing and fits the aesthetic of previous 40k styled generic daemon princes.
chaos0xomega wrote: looks like thats going to be a dual kit, the armor its wearing is CSM-ish in its shape and detailing and fits the aesthetic of previous 40k styled generic daemon princes.
CSM? How? Did I miss alt photo? Because WC picture has very little in common with CSM, square fantasy pads, chainmail, fantasy-ish axe (ok, that one arguably doesn't count), chaos warrior style limb armour, and chest plate straight from WHB/AoS. It has more in common with Varanguard horses than with any CSM model. If it is dual kit, we saw none of 40K bits yet.
Looking at the leaked photo, the new prince does not look massively bigger than the AOS Chosen standing next to him. This gives me hope that the base will stay the same.
chaos0xomega wrote: looks like thats going to be a dual kit, the armor its wearing is CSM-ish in its shape and detailing and fits the aesthetic of previous 40k styled generic daemon princes.
CSM? How? Did I miss alt photo? Because WC picture has very little in common with CSM, square fantasy pads, chainmail, fantasy-ish axe (ok, that one arguably doesn't count), chaos warrior style limb armour, and chest plate straight from WHB/AoS. It has more in common with Varanguard horses than with any CSM model. If it is dual kit, we saw none of 40K bits yet.
Wut? What about that is square?
The breastplate/torso armor is clearly rounded and follows the general shaping of power armor, the shoulder pads are mostly hemispherical in shape like SM shoulder pads (heavily embellished and slightly distorted, but still), the thigh and knee armor is likewise rounded and shaped similarly in cut and trim to CSM power armor. And if your argument is that it has chainmail, well man I don't think you've looked too closely at CSM minis because many of those minis are covered in the stuff too.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Looking at the leaked photo, the new prince does not look massively bigger than the AOS Chosen standing next to him. This gives me hope that the base will stay the same.
Those Chosen look like they are standing on 40mm bases (same base size as the snek-ladies they are facing down). Scaling from that it looks like the DP might be on an 80mm
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: Too much to hope for that this new DP will finally have options to make a Nurgle-looking one?
Im hoping it does (and the other gods as well). Would be a real missed opportunity if it doesn't
chaos0xomega wrote: looks like thats going to be a dual kit, the armor its wearing is CSM-ish in its shape and detailing and fits the aesthetic of previous 40k styled generic daemon princes.
CSM? How? Did I miss alt photo? Because WC picture has very little in common with CSM, square fantasy pads, chainmail, fantasy-ish axe (ok, that one arguably doesn't count), chaos warrior style limb armour, and chest plate straight from WHB/AoS. It has more in common with Varanguard horses than with any CSM model. If it is dual kit, we saw none of 40K bits yet.
What exactly makes a daemon prince look more 40k? Not all of them are/were chaos marines, not all that were keep marine amour on.
The new DP is good and deffo an upgrade from the last but it still doesn't match the 3rd ed pair imho.
Juan Diaz took daemons seriously and knew how to make daemons look sinister and sculpted them in a way that capture the horror, that looked like they could be real, out of the imagination and not a cartoon or anime like these days. I'd have love to have seen him do the greater daemons.
ImAGeek wrote: Up there with the AdMech and Genestealer Cults covers for me. Might be the same artist for those three actually, they’re similar styles.
For me too. The guy has a hand for bizarre minions.
There are rumours of extra Cultist units but both Thousand Sons and Death Guard have rules preventing Cultist spam. So unless CSM breaks the chain it's very unlikely that there will be a way to run a Traitor Guard list using the CSM Codex.
GaroRobe wrote: I appreciate them not wasting a model reveal today. The marine on the left has hair?!?!?
It's one of them Emprah's Kiddies photo bombing mighty cult leader's parade. That's what you get for not removing the last cult legion from the codex.
And yet there are thousand sons transfers but no emperors children ones included in csm sets
Hush, you! Don't you see that he's wearing black and gold? He's under the covers, as they say, and those transfers would only give him away. Don't tempt him. Just look at how his unwillingness to compromise on his majestic hair drew your attention. Don't make his job even harder!
GaroRobe wrote: I appreciate them not wasting a model reveal today. The marine on the left has hair?!?!?
Also are they teasing a new chaos lord? The article calls him out specifically
With all these leaks I think people will wind up very whelmed with the reveals in a couple days.
That's why I'm confused.
From what we know, CSM are:
*Possessed
*Bikes
*Cultist
*Possessed Cultist
*Cultist command
*And other human chaos dudes
For the article to call out specific looking cultists and then also add "And what manner of vile tyrant stands above it all, bristling with more spikes than a ceramite hedgehog?" feels like it's setting us up for disappointment
GaroRobe wrote: I appreciate them not wasting a model reveal today. The marine on the left has hair?!?!?
Also are they teasing a new chaos lord? The article calls him out specifically
With all these leaks I think people will wind up very whelmed with the reveals in a couple days.
That's why I'm confused.
From what we know, CSM are:
*Possessed
*Bikes
*Cultist
*Possessed Cultist
*Cultist command
*And other human chaos dudes
For the article to call out specific looking cultists and then also add "And what manner of vile tyrant stands above it all, bristling with more spikes than a ceramite hedgehog?" feels like it's setting us up for disappointment
Good thing we already know half of what's in the codex. The disappointment already passed
GaroRobe wrote: I appreciate them not wasting a model reveal today. The marine on the left has hair?!?!?
Also are they teasing a new chaos lord? The article calls him out specifically
With all these leaks I think people will wind up very whelmed with the reveals in a couple days.
That's why I'm confused.
From what we know, CSM are:
*Possessed
*Bikes
*Cultist
*Possessed Cultist
*Cultist command
*And other human chaos dudes
For the article to call out specific looking cultists and then also add "And what manner of vile tyrant stands above it all, bristling with more spikes than a ceramite hedgehog?" feels like it's setting us up for disappointment
Well there's one CSM character more closely connected to the word Tyrant than most, but unless there's been some sort of radical change in fluff, his wargear is very distinct and that isn't him.
GaroRobe wrote: I appreciate them not wasting a model reveal today. The marine on the left has hair?!?!?
Also are they teasing a new chaos lord? The article calls him out specifically
With all these leaks I think people will wind up very whelmed with the reveals in a couple days.
That's why I'm confused.
From what we know, CSM are:
*Possessed
*Bikes
*Cultist
*Possessed Cultist
*Cultist command
*And other human chaos dudes
For the article to call out specific looking cultists and then also add "And what manner of vile tyrant stands above it all, bristling with more spikes than a ceramite hedgehog?" feels like it's setting us up for disappointment
Here's something to consider (and I want to make sure to say I'm not encouraging unreasonable hype).
Original B&C rumor text related to this year was this:
Bolter & Chainsword wrote:
In January 2022, we will get:
T'au:
Codex with reworked plastic Darkstrider
After January 2022, we will get (in no as-of-yet defined order):
CSM:
Plenty of new kits for 9th Edition.
Regular Possessed,
Bikers,
Chosen,
Warpsmith,
Cultists (BSF-style),
Renegade Guard (BSF-style),
human mutants,
possessed humans (the latter two are monstrously horrible. Think of the Greater Possessed but cranked up to 11),
cultist standard bearer (character),
cultist character with bodyguards.
Chaos Knights:
New Knight variant with Codex
Craftworld Eldar:
A massive, but incomplete, update of Eldar
Without a specific date but in the pipeline:
Squats
World Eaters
Daemons
Astra Militarum with veteran-style Cadians. Two new regiments are also in the works. New Kasrkin and new vehicle, designed to fit between the Leman Russ and the Baneblade.
With Chaos Knights it sounds like the leaker possibly only knew about one of the new variants since they said "new Knight variant" singular. And Eldar just said "massive but incomplete update".
Which means it's possible there's 1 or 2 models for CSM they either didn't see or forgot about when posting their rumor.
I thought we had a fairly reliable leaker with CSM who didn't mention anything new, but seemed to imply the chaos HQ were limited to options we had already seen. So, basically just a thunder hammer
Marshal Loss wrote: Big fan of that cover. Now give us a Lord that looks like that
I thought that the Cover Art was supposed to be inspired by existing models? Either that's changed or there just might be a Chaos lord with sword/ax option coming.
Marshal Loss wrote: Big fan of that cover. Now give us a Lord that looks like that
I thought that the Cover Art was supposed to be inspired by existing models? Either that's changed or there just might be a Chaos lord with sword/ax option coming.
I find myself disappointed. I don't like the cover and the leaks make me sad/angry. As an EC player I don't expect much and GW is delivering that level of results as far as I can see. Based on the leaks so far it looks like I may be out of Chaos until 10th.
Daedalus81 wrote: With all these leaks I think people will wind up very whelmed with the reveals in a couple days.
Are you referring to the model or rules leaks? Because I personally find the rules leaks underwhelming. At this point, "whelmed" would be an upgrade.
I believe Daed's reference is less about individual models or rules, but rather than this week is meant to be a big preview event, and if so much stuff gets leaked just before, it makes it difficult for GW to make a presentation which includes sufficient unknown material - usually models, or upcoming books/boxes - to excite the audience.
Or, at least, the audience who frequents forums, etc.
Which will, in turn, lead to complaints that the event is underwhelming because we knew stuff was coming - but only because people leaked material in advance.
For example, imagine how people would've reacted to news of a new plastic HH box coming if we'd not seen a potato pic (or five) last year, and only had heard of it a month or two ago...
Question: does someone know if there are rumours about kits for the great possesed, the master of possesion and the obliterators? I searched GW's webpage but they seem to be out of stock everywhere except in a few Start Collecting still available
Garrac wrote: Question: does someone know if there are rumours about kits for the great possesed, the master of possesion and the obliterators? I searched GW's webpage but they seem to be out of stock everywhere except in a few Start Collecting still available
As far as I know, the units from Shadowspear (so those three and the Venomcrawler) are only available in the Start Collecting box at this time.
And until you asked this question, I wasn't aware that the CSMSC box had been removed from the GW webstore.
I'd imagine the MoP may get an individual clampack release with the CSM book, as he is his own sprue, but AFAIK the other three are on a mixed sprue, so... who knows?
Question: Is there any info regarding whether the Lord of Skulls is still in the CSM codex? i imagine that, like Berzerkers, it could have been carved off into the upcoming WE codex.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I find myself disappointed. I don't like the cover and the leaks make me sad/angry. As an EC player I don't expect much and GW is delivering that level of results as far as I can see. Based on the leaks so far it looks like I may be out of Chaos until 10th.
For what it's worth. I think we are one of the "winners" of the new codex. Ignores all/any modifiers to hit is really good as an army wide trait. But compared to what everyone else lost and our super doctrine it still feels bad. To say nothing of still lacking a real Noise marine kit.
Garrac wrote: Question: does someone know if there are rumours about kits for the great possesed, the master of possesion and the obliterators? I searched GW's webpage but they seem to be out of stock everywhere except in a few Start Collecting still available
According to rumors, Greater Possessed are just Possessed in the new book, which are getting a new kit.
SarisKhan wrote: I've been waiting for an EC Codex or Supplement for several years now... it seems I'll have to wait some more
We will get our due eventually. Hopefully in 10th if the pattern (TS in 7th, DG in 8th, WE in 9th...) continues.
Assuming C:WE materializes.
While many CSM rumors have been confirmed, a little skepticism is still warranted. GW's release schedule is always subject to change.
My personal, completely non-scientific opinion: the level of interest for C:EC is far greater than for C:WE.
I'm not sure on that, I think that's likely because the current meta build is Emperor's children so there's more of them out there and also because its harder to see what they'll do with EC, it'll be something people can't envisage.
I have been playing EC since 3rd and while the rule that ignore modifiers is nice it's not enough to make the army, as a whole, competitive with even average codices. There hasn't even been a statement that says that Noise Marines can still be taken as troops in an EC army we are just presuming that it will stay that way. Let's face it CSM will always be the little brothers to SM and the flavor of the month. Except for one brief shining moment we have always fought to be a second tier army. Can someone tell me that last time that a CSM army won a major event? And, were there noise marine units in that/those lists?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'm expecting a full range reveal for Chaos, but then for the Squats it'll just be the rest of the squad for the one guy they've already shown.
Remember that GW is exceptionally good at not showing things. Remember when they did a massive reveal for the entire upcoming Eldar range, but despite showing all the Eldar stuff could only manage to show us a picture of a single new Corsair mini because that was a Kill Team release. I would almost imagine them doing something similar here.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I have been playing EC since 3rd and while the rule that ignore modifiers is nice it's not enough to make the army, as a whole, competitive with even average codices. There hasn't even been a statement that says that Noise Marines can still be taken as troops in an EC army we are just presuming that it will stay that way. Let's face it CSM will always be the little brothers to SM and the flavor of the month. Except for one brief shining moment we have always fought to be a second tier army. Can someone tell me that last time that a CSM army won a major event? And, were there noise marine units in that/those lists?
It was mentioned by one of the leakers that noise marines are troops for EC. As well as EC getting free Slaanesh marks for everything that can be marked (so core/characters as expected).
EC chosen with hammers has also been mentioned repeatedly as a very strong option. Hammers hitting on 2s, getting potentially +2ap on a 6 to wound, that aint bad.
You sure it wasn't power fists? 'Cause it'd be real strange to go from the Thunder Hammer being quite rare within Chaos forces to being the only specialist melee weapon Chosen can take outside of "Generic Special Close Combat Weapon".
H.B.M.C. wrote: Remember that GW is exceptionally good at not showing things. Remember when they did a massive reveal for the entire upcoming Eldar range, but despite showing all the Eldar stuff could only manage to show us a picture of a single new Corsair mini because that was a Kill Team release. I would almost imagine them doing something similar here.
The entire presentation will be the big reveal of the new Aspiring Champion sculpt.
He's now holding the multi-melta and comes with a 40mm base.
You sure it wasn't power fists? 'Cause it'd be real strange to go from the Thunder Hammer being quite rare within Chaos forces to being the only specialist melee weapon Chosen can take outside of "Generic Special Close Combat Weapon".
It's on page one of this thread. They can take thunder hammers. Maybe when they get a non-box-set release they'll be on the sprues.
You sure it wasn't power fists? 'Cause it'd be real strange to go from the Thunder Hammer being quite rare within Chaos forces to being the only specialist melee weapon Chosen can take outside of "Generic Special Close Combat Weapon".
It's on page one of this thread. They can take thunder hammers. Maybe when they get a non-box-set release they'll be on the sprues.
That particular part of the leaks originated from 4chan, and is therefore pretty suspect. I seriously doubt that the standalone Chosen release will include anything that isn't in the Chaos vs Eldar box.
At least then your modelling isn't artificially restricted via rules.
It's weird that the Accursed Weapon is more preferred, huh? That's what happens with the NMNR and building strictly from the box though!
Well GW heard the criticism of the rules being unfun because they took customization of weapon options away, forcing players to use a locked gear set up that was impractical to use, but they skipped the core part of the argument and went straight to 'oh, the impracticality is the problem here!'
Chosen will probably see an "actual" kit much like the lojalist blade guard and assault intercessors got new boxes rather than the starterset monopose models.
The chosen they resently released was clearly a novelty joke, and the final rules for optional wargear will not be daft. Right?
Fayric wrote: Chosen will probably see an "actual" kit much like the lojalist blade guard and assault intercessors got new boxes rather than the starterset monopose models.
The chosen they resently released was clearly a novelty joke, and the final rules for optional wargear will not be daft. Right?
I'd say the difference is - the Bladeguard and Assault Intercessors are from a launch box, not from a regular boxed set.
Dudeface wrote: Time for any wild predictions and the like for the reveal? I know we know what to expect roughly, but any specifics to take a punt on?
An hour of pointless filler talk
A single Squat
An hour of pointless filler talk
A single Chaos Marine
An hour of pointless filler talk
A trailer for a proper reveal later down the line.
Dudeface wrote: Time for any wild predictions and the like for the reveal? I know we know what to expect roughly, but any specifics to take a punt on?
An hour of pointless filler talk
A single Squat
An hour of pointless filler talk
A single Chaos Marine
An hour of pointless filler talk
A trailer for a proper reveal later down the line.
Such nonsense! Where are the Warhammer+ ads?
But more seriously, I'm going to guess that to everyone's surprise the new cooltists will actually have a choice of autoguns and melee options for the whole squad. None of that Boyz nonsense we saw earlier.
Dudeface wrote: Time for any wild predictions and the like for the reveal? I know we know what to expect roughly, but any specifics to take a punt on?
An hour of pointless filler talk
A single Squat
An hour of pointless filler talk
A single Chaos Marine
An hour of pointless filler talk
A trailer for a proper reveal later down the line.
Such nonsense! Where are the Warhammer+ ads?
But more seriously, I'm going to guess that to everyone's surprise the new cooltists will actually have a choice of autoguns and melee options for the whole squad. None of that Boyz nonsense we saw earlier.
I'm loosely ready to be confused/annoyed at mortal possessed being big mutated blobs like spawn, but aren't spawn, but are the same size/bigger than the possessed marines but randomly are better despite being mortals or worse wondering what their purpose is.... but they aren't spawns oddly.
At least then your modelling isn't artificially restricted via rules.
It's weird that the Accursed Weapon is more preferred, huh? That's what happens with the NMNR and building strictly from the box though!
We spent all of 3rd, 4th, and 5th with Power Weapons just being Power Weapons regardless of what was modeled and it worked fine. This is honestly no different(with the exception of the stupid multiple types of Lightning Claws thing going on throughout the book).
Dudeface wrote: Time for any wild predictions and the like for the reveal? I know we know what to expect roughly, but any specifics to take a punt on?
An hour of pointless filler talk
A single Squat
An hour of pointless filler talk
A single Chaos Marine
An hour of pointless filler talk
A trailer for a proper reveal later down the line.
Such nonsense! Where are the Warhammer+ ads?
But more seriously, I'm going to guess that to everyone's surprise the new cooltists will actually have a choice of autoguns and melee options for the whole squad. None of that Boyz nonsense we saw earlier.
I'm loosely ready to be confused/annoyed at mortal possessed being big mutated blobs like spawn, but aren't spawn, but are the same size/bigger than the possessed marines but randomly are better despite being mortals or worse wondering what their purpose is.... but they aren't spawns oddly.
Who knows, maybe non-Marine Possessed are just going to have less toughness and lack power armor, but come cheaper. Then get some synergy with cooltist HQs while Marine Possessed get synergy with Marine HQs and call it day. GW doesn't always try to figure out a unique role for things that are just a different flavor from something that already exists and are content for the models and theme to be the deciding factor for picking a unit. When they do, it oftentimes seems artificial to me.
Yeah, like it's fine to have the granularity of multiple types and it's kind of neat that those modeling decisions matter, but I certainly wouldn't shed a tear if 10th consolidated a lot of weapon profiles.
Though yes, the lightning claw thing is just bizarre if that stays around.
On the 2 sprues HBMC linked can anyone tell me what a weapon is? On the first link its in the bottom corner of the top left quadrant. In the second one it's the one just below the 2 arms in the upper left quadrant. It looks like it's a 2 handed ranged weapon but I can't tell.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: On the 2 sprues HBMC linked can anyone tell me what a weapon is? On the first link its in the bottom corner of the top left quadrant. In the second one it's the one just below the 2 arms in the upper left quadrant. It looks like it's a 2 handed ranged weapon but I can't tell.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: On the 2 sprues HBMC linked can anyone tell me what a weapon is? On the first link its in the bottom corner of the top left quadrant. In the second one it's the one just below the 2 arms in the upper left quadrant. It looks like it's a 2 handed ranged weapon but I can't tell.
Yeah, I wasn't sold on the fantasy sneak-peak version, but the 40k version is pretty amazing. And lots of options for the options gods.
Not much variation in stance or posture, so 6 seems like overkill.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Anyone here have all the pictures of the new daemon prince?
The heads are nice, and it's certainly an improvement over the current plastic mess, but I'm happy I have my old metal 3.5 one stripped and ready to repaint, rather than this thing. It looks like somewhere between an attempt to capture that one and the codex cover.
(Not saying the 3.5 is perfect, but IDK I'm not a huge fan of the thick and high-relief ornamentation that I feel like we've been seeing since 8th and the new Death Guard)
The new Daemon Prince is interesting, wondering about scale.
When Codex: CSM is released I will be updating my current army. This will probably include Daemon Princes. Anything Belakor sized would be a non-starter, anything much bigger than the current sculpt is something I'd have to think about.
The new possessed would be a great kit even if it wasn't replacing some of the borkiest sculpts in the entire range, really like the new Cultists and Mutants too.
On the fence about the Commune, but I have to say I'm really not keen on the new Prince, and while I see what they're shooting for with the Torments, I'm not blown away by the execution.
The new Daemon Prince is interesting, wondering about scale.
When Codex: CSM is released I will be updating my current army. This will probably include Daemon Princes. Anything Belakor sized would be a non-starter, anything much bigger than the current sculpt is something I'd have to think about.
They were guessing that the DP is on a 60mm base, and Big Bel is on a 100mm.
Given the skulls around the obligatory rock, that seems about right. So a fair bit smaller than Big B. Probably bigger than the current sculpt, but not much (if at all) bigger than the old metal sculpt.
It’s funny how long we have to wait for a few new chaos sculpts but there’s already so many amazing 3rd party STLs of every chaos model that are better than GW models. GW should just have a library of STLs to download like iTunes music except for models. 3D printing is gonna steal so many sales away. Either get with the Revolution or lose out.
warpedpig wrote: It’s funny how long we have to wait for a few new chaos sculpts but there’s already so many amazing 3rd party STLs of every chaos model that are better than GW models. GW should just have a library of STLs to download like iTunes music except for models. 3D printing is gonna steal so many sales away. Either get with the Revolution or lose out.
Or just buy literally any human scale model GW already makes. Much easier.
Not sure why we needed not-Spawns, but as someone who has 30+ messed up cultist conversions for my redone Word Bearers (which I never painted unlike my 3.5 WBs they were supposed to represent in a bigger, prettier shape ) I can really appreciate "Mutants" as a unit. The cultist I remain split on, I guess as a replacement to the "we worship the Dark Gods and put a lot of effort into showing this" Paul Muller sculpts they work nicely, but nog for the shaggy, filthy, downtrodden cultists WBs would probably hers into battle as fodder. The Prince is nice, the Undivided heads are both meh, but the cult ones I like - and I never set aside the 25€ or whatever for the old metal DP because my early teen self hated pinning (still do, actually).
Looking at the models I like all of them, even the kind of goofy "big mutants". The prince and new CSM possessed are sick, and I will probably end up getting a squad and a prince (even though I have like 4 already) just because of how great the model looks. Not sure if I will end up getting the cultist stuff however.
My only concern is something GW has been doing lately which is who was asking for mutant/possessed cultists in the CSM book. I mean I think the are cool, but I would much rather have had new bikes, bike sorcerer/lord combo kit, and a lord kit with all of the options over the cultist stuff. It was kind of the same with Eldar with the scout bikes, which are awesome looking, but who was demanding these when there are still several squads of aspects that would be old enough to rent a car. Just a thought.
xeen wrote: My only concern is something GW has been doing lately which is who was asking for mutant/possessed cultists in the CSM book. I mean I think the are cool, but I would much rather have had new bikes, bike sorcerer/lord combo kit, and a lord kit with all of the options over the cultist stuff. It was kind of the same with Eldar with the scout bikes, which are awesome looking, but who was demanding these when there are still several squads of aspects that would be old enough to rent a car. Just a thought.
xeen wrote: Looking at the models I like all of them, even the kind of goofy "big mutants".
I actually like the big mutants better than the little ones, though more than one squad of each will look real odd on the table, unless they're a lot more customizable than they appear.
Though the fluff aspect is weird- bigger mutants have never really been about daemonic emergence before.
My only concern is something GW has been doing lately which is who was asking for mutant/possessed cultists in the CSM book.
'Who was asking for X?' is a pretty dead end question. Even if it was 'nobody,' it still doesn't invalidate new releases.
Though in this case the 'who' is Renegades and Heretics/Lost and the Damned players, and they would quite like their army back.
xeen wrote: Looking at the models I like all of them, even the kind of goofy "big mutants".
I actually like the big mutants better than the little ones, though more than one squad of each will look real odd on the table, unless they're a lot more customizable than they appear.
Though the fluff aspect is weird- bigger mutants have never really been about daemonic emergence before.
My only concern is something GW has been doing lately which is who was asking for mutant/possessed cultists in the CSM book.
'Who was asking for X?' is a pretty dead end question. Even if it was 'nobody,' it still doesn't invalidate new releases.
Though in this case the 'who' is Renegades and Heretics/Lost and the Damned players, and they would quite like their army back.
Yeah, these are definitely cooler to have than the Dinobots.
Those are supposed to be mutants? I'm sorry but I always thought of mutants as being more like the mutants from Total Recall or the Persian orgy tent in 300. These guys have serious issues, like they need to see a Chaos doctor or nurse practitioner or something and get that looked at. Like they've sailed past Chaos Spawn levels of mutation right into the Chaos Bubblegum zone. If they reveal their statline and it turns out they have a movement stat of 1" I'd be like, "yep, that sounds about right."
Ok the more I look at the Torments the more insanely idiotic details emerge. Like the one with wings has what, 2 winged limbs, 2 spikey legs and a tail (that ends in a cloven hoof for some reason)? So if I'm mutating into this creature and I'm starting from a human with 4 limbs, a head and a vestigial tail(bone) how am I gonna do it? Well obviously we grow the left leg out of the left leg, the left arm out of the left arm, the right leg out of the right arm, the right arm out of the right... oh gak I fethed that up didn't I? Ok, uh let's do tail out the right leg, right arm out the back and my heads coming out the armpit. Come at me bro!
This other guy who's succeeded at growing a daemon out of his right leg wants you to know he's a West Coast gangsta and that you should sign your server copy and the other one you can keep, thanks for eating at Chaos Applebee's.
The other one didn't listen and has decided to eat the server copy for dessert instead so he gets what he deserves.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: Ok the more I look at the Torments the more insanely idiotic details emerge. Like the one with wings has what, 2 winged limbs, 2 spikey legs and a tail (that ends in a cloven hoof for some reason)? So if I'm mutating into this creature and I'm starting from a human with 4 limbs, a head and a vestigial tail(bone) how am I gonna do it? Well obviously we grow the left leg out of the left leg, the left arm out of the left arm, the right leg out of the right arm, the right arm out of the right... oh gak I fethed that up didn't I? Ok, uh let's do tail out the right leg, right arm out the back and my heads coming out the armpit. Come at me bro!
This other guy who's succeeded at growing a daemon out of his right leg wants you to know he's a West Coast gangsta and that you should sign your server copy and the other one you can keep, thanks for eating at Chaos Applebee's.
The other one didn't listen and has decided to eat the server copy for dessert instead so he gets what he deserves.
The more I look at them, the more I want to put on a John Carpenter movie.
The Eavy Metal paint job does the mutants zero favours. I think when some people used to painting grisly models get hold of them they'll look a lot better.
The big mutants are possessed, rather than evolving. They've been saturated with enough chaos stuff that daemons can manifest through their flesh rather than them mutating into this creature.
Arbitrator wrote: The Eavy Metal paint job does the mutants zero favours. I think when some people used to painting grisly models get hold of them they'll look a lot better.
Hence why I say GW's paintjobs are for showing details, not technical prowess or feel.
Everything looks great. The cultists aren't my jam, but I'm happy for people that wanted them. When I play chaos marines, I expect to play... marines.
Only thing I'm sad about is the absence of Bikers. The rumors earlier in the year have been nearly spot-on throughout all of these reveals, so the absence of bikers, a kit nearly as old as the Khorne Berzerkers, concerns me a bit.
drbored wrote: Everything looks great. The cultists aren't my jam, but I'm happy for people that wanted them. When I play chaos marines, I expect to play... marines.
Only thing I'm sad about is the absence of Bikers. The rumors earlier in the year have been nearly spot-on throughout all of these reveals, so the absence of bikers, a kit nearly as old as the Khorne Berzerkers, concerns me a bit.
Yeah, it's pretty interesting because we got 90% of what was mentioned
CSM:
Plenty of new kits for 9th Edition.
Regular Possessed, ✓ Bikers, ??? Chosen, ✓ Warpsmith, ✓ Cultists (BSF-style), ✓ Renegade Guard (BSF-style), ??? human mutants, ✓ possessed humans (the latter two are monstrously horrible. Think of the Greater Possessed but cranked up to 11), ✓ cultist standard bearer (character), ✓ cultist character with bodyguards. ✓
And I doubt anyone would have guessed about the possessed/mutated cultists or command squad without having actually seen something from inside production.
So does that mean bikes and Ren Guard are still coming or was that a wired crossed moment?
drbored wrote: Everything looks great. The cultists aren't my jam, but I'm happy for people that wanted them. When I play chaos marines, I expect to play... marines.
Only thing I'm sad about is the absence of Bikers. The rumors earlier in the year have been nearly spot-on throughout all of these reveals, so the absence of bikers, a kit nearly as old as the Khorne Berzerkers, concerns me a bit.
Yeah, it's pretty interesting because we got 90% of what was mentioned
CSM:
Plenty of new kits for 9th Edition.
Regular Possessed, ✓ Bikers, ??? Chosen, ✓ Warpsmith, ✓ Cultists (BSF-style), ✓ Renegade Guard (BSF-style), ??? human mutants, ✓ possessed humans (the latter two are monstrously horrible. Think of the Greater Possessed but cranked up to 11), ✓ cultist standard bearer (character), ✓ cultist character with bodyguards. ✓
And I doubt anyone would have guessed about the possessed/mutated cultists or command squad without having actually seen something from inside production.
So does that mean bikes and Ren Guard are still coming or was that a wired crossed moment?
I bet ya that renegade guard silhouette is going to be part of the Kill Team reveal, likely vs Squats or something.
Chaos Bikers are also "No Longer Available" on the webstore, which can happen due to reboxing, but it stands out as one of the very few kits that's listed like that in the range.
All these mutants and cultists will look so much better with a much dirtier, less 'Eavy Metal painting style and colour scheme. Less bright and colourful, more messy and dark.
xeen wrote: Looking at the models I like all of them, even the kind of goofy "big mutants". The prince and new CSM possessed are sick, and I will probably end up getting a squad and a prince (even though I have like 4 already) just because of how great the model looks. Not sure if I will end up getting the cultist stuff however.
My only concern is something GW has been doing lately which is who was asking for mutant/possessed cultists in the CSM book. I mean I think the are cool, but I would much rather have had new bikes, bike sorcerer/lord combo kit, and a lord kit with all of the options over the cultist stuff. It was kind of the same with Eldar with the scout bikes, which are awesome looking, but who was demanding these when there are still several squads of aspects that would be old enough to rent a car. Just a thought.
I've actually been very recently looking into what kits to make mutants out of for some Lost and the Damned. I'm still probably going to focus on cheap kits, green stuff, and the cannibalized bits from an old Chaos Spawn kit, but these do have possibilities. If the price is right, I could even see myself getting a box of these new ones to fill in the ranks or as a unit centerpiece.
My very first thought on them was essentially "oh cool mutants and big mutants for LatD."
xeen wrote: Looking at the models I like all of them, even the kind of goofy "big mutants". The prince and new CSM possessed are sick, and I will probably end up getting a squad and a prince (even though I have like 4 already) just because of how great the model looks. Not sure if I will end up getting the cultist stuff however.
My only concern is something GW has been doing lately which is who was asking for mutant/possessed cultists in the CSM book. I mean I think the are cool, but I would much rather have had new bikes, bike sorcerer/lord combo kit, and a lord kit with all of the options over the cultist stuff. It was kind of the same with Eldar with the scout bikes, which are awesome looking, but who was demanding these when there are still several squads of aspects that would be old enough to rent a car. Just a thought.
I've actually been very recently looking into what kits to make mutants out of for some Lost and the Damned. I'm still probably going to focus on cheap kits, green stuff, and the cannibalized bits from an old Chaos Spawn kit, but these do have possibilities. If the price is right, I could even see myself getting a box of these new ones to fill in the ranks or as a unit centerpiece.
My very first thought on them was essentially "oh cool mutants and big mutants for LatD."
My major concern for the big mutants is that they will likely only build 1 way. Maybe they'll have an alternate limb or head here and there, but they're going to start looking very same-y real quick. The little mutants won't have as much of that issue, especially since a little green stuff can go a long way to add more of them via the new cultist kit.
tbf, I'm not adding any of that to my force, so disregard this at your leisure.
CSM:
Plenty of new kits for 9th Edition.
Regular Possessed, ✓ Bikers, ??? Chosen, ✓ Warpsmith, ✓ Cultists (BSF-style), ✓ Renegade Guard (BSF-style), ??? human mutants, ✓ possessed humans (the latter two are monstrously horrible. Think of the Greater Possessed but cranked up to 11), ✓ cultist standard bearer (character), ✓ cultist character with bodyguards. ✓
I remember at the time that I instantly dismissed those rumours when I saw "Cultists" followed by "Human Mutants" and then "Possessed Humans". I thought that someone must have missed something, or was just jamming all their wishlists into one. There was no way GW was going to do three cultist kits with increasing levels of mutation/possession. What utter nonsense!
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: Those are supposed to be mutants? I'm sorry but I always thought of mutants as being more like the mutants from Total Recall or the Persian orgy tent in 300. These guys have serious issues, like they need to see a Chaos doctor or nurse practitioner or something and get that looked at. Like they've sailed past Chaos Spawn levels of mutation right into the Chaos Bubblegum zone. If they reveal their statline and it turns out they have a movement stat of 1" I'd be like, "yep, that sounds about right."
Yeah, I was disappointed. The way they described them on stream, they're mutants in the "mutated by warp exposure/taint" style of mutants rather than the mutant slaves we usually hear about in fluff.
GW just needs release to another Lost and the Damned codex again, almost nothing here is actually CSM. Daemon Prince is amazing and I might buy a couple even though I don't play CSM.
drbored wrote: Everything looks great. The cultists aren't my jam, but I'm happy for people that wanted them. When I play chaos marines, I expect to play... marines.
Only thing I'm sad about is the absence of Bikers. The rumors earlier in the year have been nearly spot-on throughout all of these reveals, so the absence of bikers, a kit nearly as old as the Khorne Berzerkers, concerns me a bit.
Yeah, it's pretty interesting because we got 90% of what was mentioned
CSM:
Plenty of new kits for 9th Edition.
Regular Possessed, ✓ Bikers, ??? Chosen, ✓ Warpsmith, ✓ Cultists (BSF-style), ✓ Renegade Guard (BSF-style), ??? human mutants, ✓ possessed humans (the latter two are monstrously horrible. Think of the Greater Possessed but cranked up to 11), ✓ cultist standard bearer (character), ✓ cultist character with bodyguards. ✓
And I doubt anyone would have guessed about the possessed/mutated cultists or command squad without having actually seen something from inside production.
So does that mean bikes and Ren Guard are still coming or was that a wired crossed moment?
I bet ya that renegade guard silhouette is going to be part of the Kill Team reveal, likely vs Squats or something.
Chaos Bikers are also "No Longer Available" on the webstore, which can happen due to reboxing, but it stands out as one of the very few kits that's listed like that in the range.
WHERE MY BIKES
I didn't even notice that on the event card...
MUtaTED HYPE!!!
I'm wondering if the bikes will just get casually mentioned around the time/after the codex drops as "oh yeah we have these guys too" sorta thing?
CSM:
Plenty of new kits for 9th Edition.
Regular Possessed, ✓ Bikers, ??? Chosen, ✓ Warpsmith, ✓ Cultists (BSF-style), ✓ Renegade Guard (BSF-style), ??? human mutants, ✓ possessed humans (the latter two are monstrously horrible. Think of the Greater Possessed but cranked up to 11), ✓ cultist standard bearer (character), ✓ cultist character with bodyguards. ✓
I remember at the time that I instantly dismissed those rumours when I saw "Cultists" followed by "Human Mutants" and then "Possessed Humans". I thought that someone must have missed something, or was just jamming all their wishlists into one. There was no way GW was going to do three cultist kits with increasing levels of mutation/possession. What utter nonsense!
And now here we are...
As a collector of expendable Chaos meat shields, what a time to be alive!
I feel 30, hurty, and thrumming with the power of the dark gods!
warpedpig wrote: It’s funny how long we have to wait for a few new chaos sculpts but there’s already so many amazing 3rd party STLs of every chaos model that are better than GW models. GW should just have a library of STLs to download like iTunes music except for models. 3D printing is gonna steal so many sales away. Either get with the Revolution or lose out.
I more or less own a 3d print factory and still pump something like $10-15k into GWs plastics annually, and don't see that much changing. In fact, that 3d print factory is funding my GW habit. I'd much rather have the plastics than the resin prints, personally. The "3d printing revolution" isn't going to go down anywhere near the way you think it will (take it from an engineer that also works in additive manufacturing professionally, besides my side-hustle).
warpedpig wrote: It’s funny how long we have to wait for a few new chaos sculpts but there’s already so many amazing 3rd party STLs of every chaos model that are better than GW models. GW should just have a library of STLs to download like iTunes music except for models. 3D printing is gonna steal so many sales away. Either get with the Revolution or lose out.
I more or less own a 3d print factory and still pump something like $10-15k into GWs plastics annually, and don't see that much changing. In fact, that 3d print factory is funding my GW habit. I'd much rather have the plastics than the resin prints, personally. The "3d printing revolution" isn't going to go down anywhere near the way you think it will (take it from an engineer that also works in additive manufacturing professionally, besides my side-hustle).
Let's just stop this conversation right here and stick to Chaos Space Marine codex, models, and rumors.
warpedpig wrote: It’s funny how long we have to wait for a few new chaos sculpts but there’s already so many amazing 3rd party STLs of every chaos model that are better than GW models. GW should just have a library of STLs to download like iTunes music except for models. 3D printing is gonna steal so many sales away. Either get with the Revolution or lose out.
I more or less own a 3d print factory and still pump something like $10-15k into GWs plastics annually, and don't see that much changing. In fact, that 3d print factory is funding my GW habit. I'd much rather have the plastics than the resin prints, personally. The "3d printing revolution" isn't going to go down anywhere near the way you think it will (take it from an engineer that also works in additive manufacturing professionally, besides my side-hustle).
Let's just stop this conversation right here and stick to Chaos Space Marine codex, models, and rumors.
Those Torments they previewed are basically how I envisioned Chaos Spawn to look.
In fact, I bought 10 of the Greater Possessed minis for the explicit purpose of converting them into chaos spawn with similar aesthetics to the Torments for my Thousand Sons army... but now I think I might just buy a few boxes of Torments.
xeen wrote: Ok. Lost and damned. I would prefer it’s own book over being in CSM but that is my preference. Also I am going to totally buy all this stuff
They kind of occupy the same role in the CSM book as Harlequins or Kroot. They could be expanded into their own independent faction, but right now GW doesnt want to dedicate the time and resources to do that when they are focusing on a wider sub-fraction army in World Eaters and a new army with the squats.
So cultists/mutated cultists are confirmed, it seems renegade guard will be by the end of this warhammerfest. All I really need now to be happy is for CSM to get some kind of light tank squad unit associated with cultists and I'll be happy. Maybe finally some blood pact stalk tanks, eh?
cole1114 wrote: So cultists/mutated cultists are confirmed, it seems renegade guard will be by the end of this warhammerfest. All I really need now to be happy is for CSM to get some kind of light tank squad unit associated with cultists and I'll be happy. Maybe finally some blood pact stalk tanks, eh?
Maybe if Venomcrawlers get a standalone kit with some options?
My only concern is something GW has been doing lately which is who was asking for mutant/possessed cultists in the CSM book.
'Who was asking for X?' is a pretty dead end question. Even if it was 'nobody,' it still doesn't invalidate new releases.
Though in this case the 'who' is Renegades and Heretics/Lost and the Damned players, and they would quite like their army back.
Ok, I see my Mutant Rabble, and apparently my infantry are coming for Killteam first (and can hopefully be Veterans). Now I just need my tanks, Valkyries, Ogryns, and most importantly, my Marauders. Where are my Marauders gw?
So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
The new CSM killteam got rid of the cultist option from the original kill team 2.0 release. So makes sense to replace that.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
The new CSM killteam got rid of the cultist option from the original kill team 2.0 release. So makes sense to replace that.
Sure but doesn't change that GW would now be releasing a Killteam not tied to the featured enemy of the warzone for a faction that already got a Killteam because they were the featured enemy of the warzone it was released with.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
The new CSM killteam got rid of the cultist option from the original kill team 2.0 release. So makes sense to replace that.
Sure but doesn't change that GW would now be releasing a Killteam not tied to the featured enemy of the warzone for a faction that already got a Killteam because they were the featured enemy of the warzone it was released with.
I mean if Kasrkin are the other kill team that only mucks it up even more lol. Tho IIRC, weirdly, veteran guardsmen aren't the only choice for guard compared to every other faction that got a special team.
Also it just hit me abaddon will probably have the shadowsun "take him as a supreme commander alongside any other legion without breaking their doctrines" rule. Or at least, I hope he does. I could put my artel W dread lord to good use as proxy for him...
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
The new CSM killteam got rid of the cultist option from the original kill team 2.0 release. So makes sense to replace that.
Sure but doesn't change that GW would now be releasing a Killteam not tied to the featured enemy of the warzone for a faction that already got a Killteam because they were the featured enemy of the warzone it was released with.
I mean if Kasrkin are the other kill team that only mucks it up even more lol. Tho IIRC, weirdly, veteran guardsmen aren't the only choice for guard compared to every other faction that got a special team.
Also it just hit me abaddon will probably have the shadowsun "take him as a supreme commander alongside any other legion without breaking their doctrines" rule. Or at least, I hope he does. I could put my artel W dread lord to good use as proxy for him...
Abaddon is the leader of the Black Legion. He isn't the "Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes, and giving him such a rule would just water down the other Legions.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
The new CSM killteam got rid of the cultist option from the original kill team 2.0 release. So makes sense to replace that.
Sure but doesn't change that GW would now be releasing a Killteam not tied to the featured enemy of the warzone for a faction that already got a Killteam because they were the featured enemy of the warzone it was released with.
I mean if Kasrkin are the other kill team that only mucks it up even more lol. Tho IIRC, weirdly, veteran guardsmen aren't the only choice for guard compared to every other faction that got a special team.
Also it just hit me abaddon will probably have the shadowsun "take him as a supreme commander alongside any other legion without breaking their doctrines" rule. Or at least, I hope he does. I could put my artel W dread lord to good use as proxy for him...
Abaddon is the leader of the Black Legion. He isn't the "Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes, and giving him such a rule would just water down the other Legions.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But he kinda is though. He took the place of Horus, who was the Primarch of the Sons of Horus, but the overall commander of the Emperor's armies.
Dooby is the one that draws in forces from all over to enact the Black Crusades.
Also he made all the traitor primarchs kneel to him, and at the very least Decimus' night lords have sworn allegiance (which, as of recent lore, might be legion-strength) along with people like Honsou/etc.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
The new CSM killteam got rid of the cultist option from the original kill team 2.0 release. So makes sense to replace that.
Sure but doesn't change that GW would now be releasing a Killteam not tied to the featured enemy of the warzone for a faction that already got a Killteam because they were the featured enemy of the warzone it was released with.
I mean if Kasrkin are the other kill team that only mucks it up even more lol. Tho IIRC, weirdly, veteran guardsmen aren't the only choice for guard compared to every other faction that got a special team.
Also it just hit me abaddon will probably have the shadowsun "take him as a supreme commander alongside any other legion without breaking their doctrines" rule. Or at least, I hope he does. I could put my artel W dread lord to good use as proxy for him...
Abaddon is the leader of the Black Legion. He isn't the "Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes, and giving him such a rule would just water down the other Legions.
He's probably gonna get that rule anyway.
Yes, probably. It'll still be though.
H.B.M.C. wrote:But he kinda is though. He took the place of Horus, who was the Primarch of the Sons of Horus, but the overall commander of the Emperor's armies.
Dooby is the one that draws in forces from all over to enact the Black Crusades.
There are plenty of warbands and Heretic Astartes that don't bend the knee to Abaddon. If everyone did, then everyone would be Black Legion, and they aren't. If members of other Legions want to be under the direct control of Abaddon, then they defect to the Black Legion.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: GW just needs release to another Lost and the Damned codex again, almost nothing here is actually CSM. Daemon Prince is amazing and I might buy a couple even though I don't play CSM.
That's because they scattered CSM out over a few different releases. New Warpsmith, New Chosen, New Possessed, New Unit Upgrades for CSM squads, New Daemon Prince AND then a bunch of new mortals for people who actually read stories about all the mortal chattel the Legions use in the Long War and want that on the tabletop.
Gadzilla666 wrote: There are plenty of warbands and Heretic Astartes that don't bend the knee to Abaddon. If everyone did, then everyone would be Black Legion, and they aren't. If members of other Legions want to be under the direct control of Abaddon, then they defect to the Black Legion.
By that logic, all the Legions during the Heresy were Sons of Horus Marines.
Just because you have an overall supreme commander doesn't mean your force suddenly becomes Black Legion.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Abaddon is the leader of the Black Legion. He isn't the "Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes, and giving him such a rule would just water down the other Legions.
Abaddon is the Warmaster of Chaos, the successor to Horus. It's not just the Black Legion that pledges loyalty to him. The Legions and Warbands retain their colours and traditions but they serve the Warmaster all the same. That's the point of Abaddon's Black Crusades, they unite the factions under his banner in the same way that lords and nobles of the medieval age would pledge to a higher ranking lord or noble and march to war as their vassal.
Gadzilla666 wrote: There are plenty of warbands and Heretic Astartes that don't bend the knee to Abaddon. If everyone did, then everyone would be Black Legion, and they aren't. If members of other Legions want to be under the direct control of Abaddon, then they defect to the Black Legion.
By that logic, all the Legions during the Heresy were Sons of Horus Marines.
Just because you have an overall supreme commander doesn't mean your force suddenly becomes Black Legion.
The point is that Abaddon isn't the "overall Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes. He may have nominal control of any Warbands that commit to his Crusades, but all Heretic Astartes Warbands don't commit to them. And those that do generally go off and do their own things afterwards. That's exactly what happened after the 13th Black Crusade. If Abaddon was really the "Supreme Commander" of those Warbands, then he would have been able to maintain control over them after the Fall of Cadia. But he couldn't. Because they only committed to his control long enough to get what they wanted, and after they got it, they went their own way.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Abaddon is the leader of the Black Legion. He isn't the "Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes, and giving him such a rule would just water down the other Legions.
Abaddon is the Warmaster of Chaos, the successor to Horus. It's not just the Black Legion that pledges loyalty to him. The Legions and Warbands retain their colours and traditions but they serve the Warmaster all the same. That's the point of Abaddon's Black Crusades, they unite the factions under his banner in the same way that lords and nobles of the medieval age would pledge to a higher ranking lord or noble and march to war as their vassal.
They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
Gadzilla666 wrote: There are plenty of warbands and Heretic Astartes that don't bend the knee to Abaddon. If everyone did, then everyone would be Black Legion, and they aren't. If members of other Legions want to be under the direct control of Abaddon, then they defect to the Black Legion.
By that logic, all the Legions during the Heresy were Sons of Horus Marines.
Just because you have an overall supreme commander doesn't mean your force suddenly becomes Black Legion.
The point is that Abaddon isn't the "overall Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes. He may have nominal control of any Warbands that commit to his Crusades, but all Heretic Astartes Warbands don't commit to them. And those that do generally go off and do their own things afterwards. That's exactly what happened after the 13th Black Crusade. If Abaddon was really the "Supreme Commander" of those Warbands, then he would have been able to maintain control over them after the Fall of Cadia. But he couldn't. Because they only committed to his control long enough to get what they wanted, and after they got it, they went their own way.
Guilliman has nominal control over the entire Imperium, but once the Indomitus Crusade was mainly resolved, chapters like the Black Templars and Dark Angel's mostly went off to do their own things afterwards. Clearly Guilliman shouldn't have the Supreme Commander rule either.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
And yet there are countless other Warbands, Companies, Hosts, and Harrows that follow the Warmaster always. This isn't even a grey area of whether or not Abaddon should follow in the footsteps of Guilliman and Shadowsun because he objectively is the Supreme Commander of Chaos, it is literally in his title for god's sake.
Seriously, how does this affect you in any way?
Gadzilla666 wrote: They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
And yet there are countless other Warbands, Companies, Hosts, and Harrows that follow the Warmaster always. This isn't even a grey area of whether or not Abaddon should follow in the footsteps of Guilliman and Shadowsun because he objectively is the Supreme Commander of Chaos, it is literally in his title for god's sake.
Seriously, how does this affect you in any way?
Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten. But he'll probably get it, and I've admitted as much. Sorry to have ruffled so many Black Legion feathers.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Abaddon is the leader of the Black Legion. He isn't the "Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes, and giving him such a rule would just water down the other Legions.
Abaddon is the Warmaster of Chaos, the successor to Horus. It's not just the Black Legion that pledges loyalty to him. The Legions and Warbands retain their colours and traditions but they serve the Warmaster all the same. That's the point of Abaddon's Black Crusades, they unite the factions under his banner in the same way that lords and nobles of the medieval age would pledge to a higher ranking lord or noble and march to war as their vassal.
They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
Still not as much fun as them using the Red Corsair Terminators as moving shields while giggling like idiots the entire time.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
And yet there are countless other Warbands, Companies, Hosts, and Harrows that follow the Warmaster always. This isn't even a grey area of whether or not Abaddon should follow in the footsteps of Guilliman and Shadowsun because he objectively is the Supreme Commander of Chaos, it is literally in his title for god's sake.
Seriously, how does this affect you in any way?
Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten.
Is it?
Dooby being the supreme commander of the forces of Chaos makes all Chaos Black Legion about as much as Guilliman being the supreme commander of the Imperium makes all Imperium forces Ultramarines.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
And yet there are countless other Warbands, Companies, Hosts, and Harrows that follow the Warmaster always. This isn't even a grey area of whether or not Abaddon should follow in the footsteps of Guilliman and Shadowsun because he objectively is the Supreme Commander of Chaos, it is literally in his title for god's sake.
Seriously, how does this affect you in any way?
Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten.
Is it?
Dooby being the supreme commander of the forces of Chaos makes all Chaos Black Legion about as much as Guilliman being the supreme commander of the Imperium makes all Imperium forces Ultramarines.
No, it doesn't make them all Black Legion. It says that they all do what the leader of the Black Legion says. Which, they don't. If Imperial forces don't do what Gulliman says, they're Heretics. If Chaos forces don't do what Abaddon says, they're just doing what Chaos does. Chaos isn't a unified force like the Imperium. If they were, then they'd have gotten a lot more accomplished in the last 10,000 years.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
And yet there are countless other Warbands, Companies, Hosts, and Harrows that follow the Warmaster always. This isn't even a grey area of whether or not Abaddon should follow in the footsteps of Guilliman and Shadowsun because he objectively is the Supreme Commander of Chaos, it is literally in his title for god's sake.
Seriously, how does this affect you in any way?
Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten.
Is it?
Dooby being the supreme commander of the forces of Chaos makes all Chaos Black Legion about as much as Guilliman being the supreme commander of the Imperium makes all Imperium forces Ultramarines.
No, it doesn't make them all Black Legion. It says that they all do what the leader of the Black Legion says. Which, they don't. If Imperial forces don't do what Gulliman says, they're Heretics. If Chaos forces don't do what Abaddon says, they're just doing what Chaos does. Chaos isn't a unified force like the Imperium. If they were, then they'd have gotten a lot more accomplished in the last 10,000 years.
But, again, he'll probably get the rule anyway.
I mean you could try spurning the guy with the most connections, resources and personnel under his control, but you probably won't live long and people would be willing to shoot you in the back to get something out of him in the bargain.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten. But he'll probably get it, and I've admitted as much. Sorry to have ruffled so many Black Legion feathers.
You mean the Legion that is the Legion of the Long War? The Legion that is the most organised and powerful? The Legion at whose head stands the warrior anointed by the Pantheon and forced the Daemon Primarchs themselves to bend the knee in subservience to him? The Legion that for at least twenty years of background has been at the forefront of the Long War, taking the fight to the Imperium instead of hiding like the Night Lords? You do know that there are entire Chaos Cults that worship Abaddon as a god right?
Yes, overall the forces of Chaos aren't unified like the Imperium. But Abaddon still commands a huge force of unified Legions and Warbands because once again he is the Warmaster.
Feels like the point has been laboured enough, but it'd be pretty pointless to accommodate the few warbands who refuse to work with Abaddon when it comes to writing the rules for the tabletop game where your army is expected to work like an army. Some Night Lords in the lore don't like him? Cool, the ones on the table next to him do.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten. But he'll probably get it, and I've admitted as much. Sorry to have ruffled so many Black Legion feathers.
You mean the Legion that is the Legion of the Long War? The Legion that is the most organised and powerful? The Legion at whose head stands the warrior anointed by the Pantheon and forced the Daemon Primarchs themselves to bend the knee in subservience to him? The Legion that for at least twenty years of background has been at the forefront of the Long War, taking the fight to the Imperium instead of hiding like the Night Lords? You do know that there are entire Chaos Cults that worship Abaddon as a god right?
Yes, overall the forces of Chaos aren't unified like the Imperium. But Abaddon still commands a huge force of unified Legions and Warbands because once again he is the Warmaster.
Yes, but he doesn't command all of them. That's why he couldn't hold his forces together after the Fall of Cadia. Many of the warbands were done with him after they got what they wanted, and left. If he truly commanded them, then he could have held them together, but he couldn't, because he only had their commitment as long as it benefited them. Once he comes up with another grand scheme, he may get it again, but only if it suits them, not him.
It doesn't matter if Abaddon controls every single Warband in existence just as Guilliman doesn't control every Guard Regiment, Sisters Priory, Custodes Shield Host, Astartes Chapter, Mechanicus Forge World, or Shadowsun every single T'au Sept. The idea behind a Supreme Commander is that when they are on the battlefield, the forces present submit themselves to their orders. You mentioned Crythe earlier, yet in that invasion, the Night Lords did submit to Abaddon's plans just as the Shattered Aquila submitted to Huron's plans in Blood Reaver. Towards the end of those engagements they ditched both Abaddon and Huron but for the greater sum of time, they were under their command. It doesn't matter if Abaddon can't hold every single Warband under his direct command because neither can Guilliman and he is a far greater tactical commander than Abaddon ever will be.
I mean, nothing is stopping you from saying you Chaos Space Marines hate Abaddon's guts and will never work with him and you just don't include Abaddon in your army?
The OPTION (!!!) has to be there for all the reasons and lore mentioned above, but you don't have to make use of it.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten. But he'll probably get it, and I've admitted as much. Sorry to have ruffled so many Black Legion feathers.
You mean the Legion that is the Legion of the Long War? The Legion that is the most organised and powerful? The Legion at whose head stands the warrior anointed by the Pantheon and forced the Daemon Primarchs themselves to bend the knee in subservience to him? The Legion that for at least twenty years of background has been at the forefront of the Long War, taking the fight to the Imperium instead of hiding like the Night Lords? You do know that there are entire Chaos Cults that worship Abaddon as a god right?
Yes, overall the forces of Chaos aren't unified like the Imperium. But Abaddon still commands a huge force of unified Legions and Warbands because once again he is the Warmaster.
Yes, but he doesn't command all of them. That's why he couldn't hold his forces together after the Fall of Cadia. Many of the warbands were done with him after they got what they wanted, and left. If he truly commanded them, then he could have held them together, but he couldn't, because he only had their commitment as long as it benefited them. Once he comes up with another grand scheme, he may get it again, but only if it suits them, not him.
So because some drukhari naffed off with the Ynnari instead of obeying Vect, is he not valid as a Supreme Commander either? Or Ghazkull since his Great Waaagh influence is generally limited to sector or planetary level operations? Shadowsun, who is clearly subordinate to high Ethereals? What is the definition being used here to argue that the de facto most authoritative chaos lord (and de jure thanks to the mark of chaos ascendant) is not a valid supreme commander choice? I dont have a personal stake in Abbadons reputation, I just am perplexed.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten. But he'll probably get it, and I've admitted as much. Sorry to have ruffled so many Black Legion feathers.
You mean the Legion that is the Legion of the Long War? The Legion that is the most organised and powerful? The Legion at whose head stands the warrior anointed by the Pantheon and forced the Daemon Primarchs themselves to bend the knee in subservience to him? The Legion that for at least twenty years of background has been at the forefront of the Long War, taking the fight to the Imperium instead of hiding like the Night Lords? You do know that there are entire Chaos Cults that worship Abaddon as a god right?
Yes, overall the forces of Chaos aren't unified like the Imperium. But Abaddon still commands a huge force of unified Legions and Warbands because once again he is the Warmaster.
Yes, but he doesn't command all of them. That's why he couldn't hold his forces together after the Fall of Cadia. Many of the warbands were done with him after they got what they wanted, and left. If he truly commanded them, then he could have held them together, but he couldn't, because he only had their commitment as long as it benefited them. Once he comes up with another grand scheme, he may get it again, but only if it suits them, not him.
Yea. And Guillimann doesn't have complete control of Imperium forces either.
So by your logic Guillimann shouldn't have warmaster rule either.
Or you are 2 faced and claim what suits your personal power dreams.
Abbadon has fluff wise every right to work with other forces because THAT'S WHAT HE DOES. He doesn't need to have 100% control. If 90% does and 10% doesn't that means he shouldn't be allowed to be used with the majority? Lol.
It's not like you even have to use him if in your headcanon he doesn't work them.
But we know what this is about in reality. Not fluff/what's appropriate but your power gaming.
tneva82 wrote: So by your logic Guillimann shouldn't have warmaster rule either.
*record scratch* Wat?
In a dark underground chamber, a hulking figure sitting on a throne suddenly opens its eyes and stands up. <voice>: "Get me my sword. I need to have a serious talk with Roboute." Watcher in the Dark: "My Lord!" <voice>: "NOW!"
With the new cultist announced I sure hope they'll repack the previous BSF cultist in a box of 20. (Or at lest in a box with an even number of them in )
DreadfullyHopeful wrote: With the new cultist announced I sure hope they'll repack the previous BSF cultist in a box of 20. (Or at lest in a box with an even number of them in )
Suspect they may go OOP and cultists reduced to pistol/ccw only as not seen any with rifles in the previews.
Not sure if anyone's noticed this yet, but the Chaos Start Collecting is gone from the UKGW site. AFAICT there's no way to get any of the models in it right now (although obviously regular Marines have a kit). Mutilators are also gone.
EDIT: Also checked the US, AUS, and FR sites, with the same result.
Aelyn wrote: Not sure if anyone's noticed this yet, but the Chaos Start Collecting is gone from the UKGW site. AFAICT there's no way to get any of the models in it right now (although obviously regular Marines have a kit). Mutilators are also gone.
When searching for the Master of Possession just now I noticed that as well.
Cultists of the Abyss went 'no longer available online' a few days ago on the UK site, but has since reappeared at £19 instead of the £16 it was previously.
The SC box has been gone from the UK site for a while, I never got round to getting it so I'm hoping it'll form the basis of the combat patrol.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
If you include the Compendium teams, a bunch of factions already have two Kill-Teams, they're just not bespoke.
Underworlds has factions with multiple warbands also, especially the Orcs who're up to about 4 or 5 now I think?
Kill-Team feels more like an avenue to sell people models they'd be buying for their 40k collection anyway. It's not hard to imagine that if KT21 wasn't a thing, Traitor Guard would've just been plonked into the CSM reveals under 40k.
I hope the CSM Combat Patrol they put out isn't gak - the current Start Collecting box uses the gash sculpts from Shadowspear with *no* options - so it really isn't a great choice for anyone imo. Though given the contents of the Sister of Battle Combat Patrol, I don't have much faith in GW to use the *actual multipart* CSM kit.
blood reaper wrote: I hope the CSM Combat Patrol they put out isn't gak - the current Start Collecting box uses the gash sculpts from Shadowspear with *no* options - so it really isn't a great choice for anyone imo. Though given the contents of the Sister of Battle Combat Patrol, I don't have much faith in GW to use the *actual multipart* CSM kit.
If they don't re-use the shadowspear sprues it becomes literally impossible to buy obliterators, venom Crawlers and masters of possession as it stands.
DreadfullyHopeful wrote: With the new cultist announced I sure hope they'll repack the previous BSF cultist in a box of 20. (Or at lest in a box with an even number of them in )
I don't think that's going to work very well in any combination. The sprue has a sergeant, four autoguns, a grenade launcher and a heavy stubber.
Just the squad as it is is kind of pointless, especially if Cultists are organized to come at a minimum size of ten.
If you double it up, you could have a ten man squad with autoguns, a sergeant, a special weapon and a heavy weapon. Pretty much par for the course, but you'd end up with four superfluous models.
If you triple it, you'd have to have three special weapons and three heavy weapons, as well as two sergeants, discarding the third one. That doesn't fit any kind of unit organization GW ever used, to my knowledge.
If the kit sticks around, which I hope it does, I think it will just serve as a source of different sculpts. They're all monopose jigsaw models, so even if the new Cultists end up with a measure up modularity, moving bits across to the existing ones would entail a good bit of converting.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten. But he'll probably get it, and I've admitted as much. Sorry to have ruffled so many Black Legion feathers.
You mean the Legion that is the Legion of the Long War? The Legion that is the most organised and powerful? The Legion at whose head stands the warrior anointed by the Pantheon and forced the Daemon Primarchs themselves to bend the knee in subservience to him? The Legion that for at least twenty years of background has been at the forefront of the Long War, taking the fight to the Imperium instead of hiding like the Night Lords? You do know that there are entire Chaos Cults that worship Abaddon as a god right?
Yes, overall the forces of Chaos aren't unified like the Imperium. But Abaddon still commands a huge force of unified Legions and Warbands because once again he is the Warmaster.
Yes, but he doesn't command all of them. That's why he couldn't hold his forces together after the Fall of Cadia. Many of the warbands were done with him after they got what they wanted, and left. If he truly commanded them, then he could have held them together, but he couldn't, because he only had their commitment as long as it benefited them. Once he comes up with another grand scheme, he may get it again, but only if it suits them, not him.
Yea. And Guillimann doesn't have complete control of Imperium forces either.
So by your logic Guillimann shouldn't have warmaster rule either.
Or you are 2 faced and claim what suits your personal power dreams.
Abbadon has fluff wise every right to work with other forces because THAT'S WHAT HE DOES. He doesn't need to have 100% control. If 90% does and 10% doesn't that means he shouldn't be allowed to be used with the majority? Lol.
It's not like you even have to use him if in your headcanon he doesn't work them.
But we know what this is about in reality. Not fluff/what's appropriate but your power gaming.
Oh please. This has nothing to do with my "power dreams", and more to do with some Black Legion players power dreams of expecting their Legion to be put above all others. The evidence is that I've already repeatedly acquiesced that he'll probably get the rule anyway and tried to get out of this argument, again, multiple times. But you guys just keep on coming. I'm fine with dropping it, but you just won't do the same.
And I have no idea how not getting the big buffed up character qualifies as "power gaming".
blood reaper wrote: I hope the CSM Combat Patrol they put out isn't gak - the current Start Collecting box uses the gash sculpts from Shadowspear with *no* options - so it really isn't a great choice for anyone imo. Though given the contents of the Sister of Battle Combat Patrol, I don't have much faith in GW to use the *actual multipart* CSM kit.
I'll put odds that the Combat Patrol will reuse the Shadowspear sprues. We've heard nothing about those models getting real kits, and chaos is already getting a lot.
They may or may not reuse the Master of Possession, but I wouldn't be surprised if the CP is Shadowspear again+Chosen and Warpsmith.
Or maybe shadowspear+ older kits like the terminator lord and... raptors, just to be weird.
blood reaper wrote: I hope the CSM Combat Patrol they put out isn't gak - the current Start Collecting box uses the gash sculpts from Shadowspear with *no* options - so it really isn't a great choice for anyone imo. Though given the contents of the Sister of Battle Combat Patrol, I don't have much faith in GW to use the *actual multipart* CSM kit.
I'll put odds that the Combat Patrol will reuse the Shadowspear sprues. We've heard nothing about those models getting real kits, and chaos is already getting a lot.
They may or may not reuse the Master of Possession, but I wouldn't be surprised if the CP is Shadowspear again+Chosen and Warpsmith.
Or maybe shadowspear+ older kits like the terminator lord and... raptors, just to be weird.
Very unfortunate but also very likely the case. A good example of a 'good deal' which is not actually a good deal imo.
IDK why people are saying Abbadon isn't leader material... Before being supersized, and arguably mostly still the case, he's defined as a terminator who does the impossible and unites (if temporarily) the legions again and again, is the successor to the guy who united the legions the first time, his signature weapon is the other guy's weapon--again a symbol of leadership--and even the gods are OK with sharing him. I don't really care for BL but it seems pretty obvious that he fits that role.
spiralingcadaver wrote: IDK why people are saying Abbadon isn't leader material... Before being supersized, and arguably mostly still the case, he's defined as a terminator who does the impossible and unites (if temporarily) the legions again and again, is the successor to the guy who united the legions the first time, his signature weapon is the other guy's weapon--again a symbol of leadership--and even the gods are OK with sharing him. I don't really care for BL but it seems pretty obvious that he fits that role.
I'd say Drach'nyen is more Abaddon's signature weapon than the Talon of Horus. Which is symbolic of itself - screw Horus. He failed.
blood reaper wrote: I hope the CSM Combat Patrol they put out isn't gak - the current Start Collecting box uses the gash sculpts from Shadowspear with *no* options - so it really isn't a great choice for anyone imo. Though given the contents of the Sister of Battle Combat Patrol, I don't have much faith in GW to use the *actual multipart* CSM kit.
I'll put odds that the Combat Patrol will reuse the Shadowspear sprues. We've heard nothing about those models getting real kits, and chaos is already getting a lot.
They may or may not reuse the Master of Possession, but I wouldn't be surprised if the CP is Shadowspear again+Chosen and Warpsmith.
Or maybe shadowspear+ older kits like the terminator lord and... raptors, just to be weird.
Very unfortunate but also very likely the case. A good example of a 'good deal' which is not actually a good deal imo.
Eh. I bought one start collecting, and found it well worth it. They're pretty nice models, and for the basic marines, they add some variety to the other kit.
Now, admittedly, having pair after pair of the same 'greater possessed' (which I guess are now just alt sculpts for possessed) and Oblits gets pointless fast, so I doubt I'd buy the combat patrol if it sticks with Shadowspear sprues.
---
Personally, all I really want for chaos right now is to know what they're doing with World Eaters. I'm going skip right past all these releases if they do WE justice for once. And avoid it like the plague if they don't.
Uh, on the Talon IDK in chaos yeah assuming leadership often looks like one-upping the old guy. But yeah that's fair about which is more signature, revise that to "one of his signature weapons."
REDACTED 
though.
