Well i have recently been implementing the plan developed partially by myself and my fellow dakka dakka's (namely "extrenm(54)".

My main opponants are Orks, Space Marines and Chaos, all of which are practicly crying over my newly developed strategy. The strategy involves fielding warriors, lord, destroyers and of course monoliths, this works by firing at the enemy until they reach me. If they reach me i teleport (using a monolith or veil of darkness) miles away over the board leaving myself more shots.

They claim it is impossible to beat after trying many tactics.

Tanks get beaten by gauss.
Deep striking results in necrons teleporting away
Firing back fails as monolith+necrons = supreme fire power.

Are they mistaken?

I once beat a necron force by having the majority of the enemy teleport into the side of a building, forcing phase out.

Best. Game. Ever.

Darth wrote:

Are they mistaken?

Um, yes.

Catch them. Beat them in hth, Sweep them. Repeat.

Is the chaos player not using power weapons... or any CC whatsoever? Plague marines should be batting left handed vs Crons...

Are the orks not wielding Fists? No trukks... no wagons... what gives?

Maybe they should stop footslogging, and work on actually using some fast units to CC you.

All three armies have bikes, orkz have Stormboyz(rediculously fast infantry) and Kommandos(with Snikrot, they can attack from any table edge, and even without him, they can infiltrate), as well as blazingly fast trukks, SMs have drop pods and jump infantry, and Chaos also have jump infantry.

Close combat armies should be able to hit your units of warriors hard enough to wipe them in one round. If that happens more than twice you've probably phased out.

they could just implement the same tactic on you & shoot your warriors to death. If their builds were shooty enough they could outgun you & force you to phase out.

You have to charge them and rip them to shreds but its to hard to kill the monilith with them

Unbeatable? Not in the slightest. Difficult? Yup.

They need to study what you are doing and react accordingly. With out seeing their lists and the table you are playing on I have little to offer.

However mobility and speed would seem to be the key. Warriors drop fast to CC so that would be the trick as I see it. So the answer, to me anyway, lies in the ability to make the above statement possible. That would be APC's and using them as cover when they die. Also jump packs units and bikes. Also make sure when you hit the warriors in CC you need to ensure you win by at least 4 so you can sweep them away.

Just my 2 cents...

P.S. I know easier said then done but if it was easy you wouldn't have bothered posting now would you.

Necrons are very easy to beat in 5th edition. You basically just get things into close combat and watch them disapear with the sweeping advance rule. And focus on "Necron" models and force a phase out. You can ignore everything else. Ignore the Monoliths, they are automatically phased out with the whole Necron force.

Teleporting wont save Necrons in 5th edition. Once the Monoliths are on the board they are slow moving (just try and run away from Orks for instance....) . And if the Necron player uses Veil of Darkness that means he's teleporting away from other units of the same type and clumping them up. Drop some blast weapons on him, destroy the squad, and he won't get a We'll Be Back roll because he won't be within range of another unit of the same type.

~Logic

Considering that I've beaten Necrons more than anything else (besides possibly Black Templars), I'd say no.

Necrons are most definetly not unbeatable.

I just learned not to use my Tyranids against them.

Your friends are clearly slowed. My sympathies to them.

Necrons are one of the worst armies in 5th ed. Not THE worst, but pretty damn bad.

Amusingly, Orcs and Chaos are two of the best.

I haven't played Necrons yet, (I'm still fairly new), but in the case of teleporting away... Like somebody else said, I can't really say much without looking at the terrain you use, but SM Devastator squads could hurt if they were close enough, and a SM Chapter Master can use an orbital barrage. Like I say, I'm no expert, but just my idea of what could work.

Once your Monoliths are down, you are left with not only a significant hole in your line, but also a significant hole in your plan....

Granted it's easier said than done, but concetrated anti-tank power will hump them sure as night follows day.

Outflanking HtH units. Basically you can only teleport so many units a turn, you hit more than that many and it soon becomes more detrimental to you.

MDG: I wouldn't reccomend shooting at monoliths. Even with lascannons being fired byspace marines you're not likely to bring them down. Railguns are about your best bet. If you can kill enough Necrons, the Monoliths vanish anyway. And hand to hand is the easiest way to do that.
That sort of necron build is the only army I ever beat on turn 2. Phase Out is a really dumb rule.

Darth wrote:Well i have recently been implementing the plan developed partially by myself and my fellow dakka dakka's (namely "extrenm(54)".

My main opponants are Orks, Space Marines and Chaos, all of which are practicly crying over my newly developed strategy. The strategy involves fielding warriors, lord, destroyers and of course monoliths, this works by firing at the enemy until they reach me. If they reach me i teleport (using a monolith or veil of darkness) miles away over the board leaving myself more shots.

They claim it is impossible to beat after trying many tactics.

Tanks get beaten by gauss.
Deep striking results in necrons teleporting away
Firing back fails as monolith+necrons = supreme fire power.

Are they mistaken?

Yes. Necrons are currently one of the weakest lists in 5th edition. If your opponents are routinely getting their tails kicked, the problem is either with them, the table setup, or some other external factor. The SM player might want to look into terminators, since Necrons get absolutely buggered by 2+ saves.

And powerfists. They don't like powerfists either.

Is this thread a joke? Necrons are downright terrible in 5th edition. The only thing they are good at is killing non-MEQ infantry and even that is completely negated by the overabundance of cover saves.

Danny Internets wrote:Is this thread a joke?

Seriously, is it?

For when you make em more shooty: shoot them until there's nothing else within 6" of the unit so they won't be back, for the shooty armies. Ignore the monoliths and focus on warriors, and focus on a phase out.

For when you make em more choppy: Assault. Seriously, just assault. Their leadership 10 becomes leadership 7 when you win an assault by 3. Then either take them in a sweeping advance. Repeat.

Can you "ignore" three monoliths firing large blast explosions and teleporting necrons for more rapid fire?

Not only can you, you definitely should.
What points are you at? Even at 1750 3 monoliths is a huge amount of your points.
Makes phase out easier and more attractive. I can actually think of very few situations I wouldn't go for phase out over any other victory condition.

Two words, Rail Guns

Glancing away tanks really doesn't work all that well unless your opponent is fielding like... 1 tank.

Imperial Guard, that's right, IG, can beat crons just by throwing S8 templates down range at them.

Necrons blow. Loota the destroyers and advance trukks on an 18" charge. They blow up the trukk and you disembark from the front affectively giving you 20" of movement that turn. Advance full the next turn and Waghh! if necessary. The necrons will fall. I also love bringing a warboss with klaw against a monilith, the fastest way to pop one in the entire game (Deff Dred w/4 DCCWs is great too but can't move nearly as fast. Given the terrible range of the crons with anything but destroyers and the 6" movement of the Monoliths Orks should be able to pick when and where they engauge with impunity. The last necron army that had your build that I played against with my Orks was phased out by the third turn, and I took the time to whack the monolith. I actually feel sorry for the cron's right now...

Thalor

Well a smart opponent using the necrons might surprise you. They are not a duel lash or other such sillyness and don't often appear at the final tables in Ard boys but they can and do win some RTT and local tournys. They require patience to learn and can surprise a quite a few opponents if used correctly. A balanced necron list will give most people headaches. However most people don't play them that way out of fear of phase out. Which often makes them easy to exploit and easy to take out.

True orks have it easier but if you are not tossing down a power build the necrons can be competitive vs orks. Give the guy a break. If the player he is facing know his stuff this can be an uphill battle.

Perhaps we should give the OP and his opponent a little bit more credit then take lootas and you win or your playing your army wrong.

OP. Please tell us about the tables you play on. Terrain and dimensions. How about what do most people in your neck of the woods play? Do you generally gear up to fight hordes or marines. Is the necron player a vet? Are you? Are you 100% familer with his codex? How good are your dice in general? Are his unbelievable?

Perhaps with this info we would have a better place to give advise.

And to Thalor necrons do not blow. I play the crons and the worst I have ever done with them is a tie. Granted they are my 3rd army and are only used about 7 -10 times a year. People gave up on them too early. Remember respect your opponent or he will surprise you and hand you a loss.

Just my 2 cents...

Yeah, shoot up all those scarabs coming at you. Go ahead. Crons can be nasty; having an all-comers build that does well against them can be a PITA. But yeah, fast HTH units with Fists will make them run like little girls.

the only other viable shot against a mono is two fire prisms linking up making a str 10 ap 1 shot, but against an all comers list wasting two pie plates to drop one target isn't the best strategy

sourclams: Imperial Guard, that's right, IG, can beat crons just by throwing S8 templates down range at them.

so true
if the multi-tank HS choices rumor is true,
it'll be a string of sad days in C'tan-land...

i really cant see how the IG army would work, gauss would rip them to peices

IG would work against crons at range due to the many long-range weapons and high-strength ordanance shots they get. (no WBB against str8 for warriors) If IG doesn't target and take out destroyers first and beware of scarabs they could get into some trouble. IG's mediocre assault ability lessens the impact of the poor range of gauss rifles as crons needn't be as afraid to close distance as they should be against marines, tyranids, and orks.

Thalor wrote:

Moronic rambling + "I actually feel sorry for the cron's right now..."

And Necron players feel sorry for someone who has to buy into the flavor of the month army just to win games.

I guess that makes us even, eh?

Bunker wrote:

Thalor wrote:

Moronic rambling + "I actually feel sorry for the cron's right now..."

And Necron players feel sorry for someone who has to buy into the flavor of the month army just to win games.

I guess that makes us even, eh?

I do feel sorry for necrons. The rule changes brought about by 5th edition have, IMHO, diminished their power. It used to be painful to advance through their massed fire in 4th, but running in 5th makes it too easy to get into assault and their CC is laughable. That's not even mentioning the weakened effect of gauss glancing on vehicles. I hope that their upcoming update will fix some of the glaring deficencies in their army, I don't want my friend's nicely painted army to be a shelf ornament. This is my opinion formed from many games of experience.

I have two armies for 40k. One bought 3 years ago and the other when AOBR came out. Excuse me for choosing armies with good fluff, awesome models, and that are competative. You may not like what I'm saying but there is knowlegde to be gleaned from it; I'm stating my tactics with the armies I've played with or have seen played sucessfully. If you know tactics you can work to beat them. Whether or not you feel sorry for me for my "obvious inadequacies because I play chaos and orks" has nothing to do with the OPs problem. I suggest you quit trying to highjack the thread and open a thalor-hater thread instead.

thalor

Necrons are a good army when payed right and not facing one of the bull gak cheese lists.

With 3 Liths and Vail, you can only move 4 at max, and they have to be with in 18 of the liths (Not counting for vail). The smart thing to do would be throw a few glances at the lith and hope for an immobile so they can't move it, then just get some long range (IG any one?) and blow it up out side of the 24 the lith can shoot and pick them off slowly.

The destroyers would be the biggest problem but you can easily corner them and unless you have a destroyer lord in the unit your opponent can chop them up easily with out worrying about WWB

They claim it is impossible to beat after trying many tactics.

Tanks get beaten by gauss.
Deep striking results in necrons teleporting away
Firing back fails as monolith+necrons = supreme fire power.

Are they mistaken?

Mistaken, sometimes.

The point is that Necrons die more easily in cc in the 5th ed, thanks to combat resolution.
So once a Necron unit is being caught, it might be dead.

a couple of 10 man marine assualt squads each with a vet sgt w/ thunder hammer would tear this army a new one. I know because my 'crons have been on the recieving end of that!

There are two unbeatable lists in 40k:
1. Anything with Necrons
2. 30 Spawn

.

Logic wrote:

Teleporting wont save Necrons in 5th edition. Once the Monoliths are on the board they are slow moving (just try and run away from Orks for instance....)

~Logic

monoliths moving flat out>? they can still fire their particly whip or teleport while moving 12

Uh, Darth? The Ponderous rule states that Monoliths can only move up to 6" a turn.

Darth wrote:

Logic wrote:

Teleporting wont save Necrons in 5th edition. Once the Monoliths are on the board they are slow moving (just try and run away from Orks for instance....)

~Logic

monoliths moving flat out>? they can still fire their particly whip or teleport while moving 12

Liths only get 6", and they can't turbo. Also they can only pull units from 18", so all you have to do is immobile it (Glancing any one?) and fire away at the pretty little necron bits until they all drop dead. and if you have anything with more then a 24" range the Lith can't even shoot at you.

yay the first weakness!

The whole army is a weakness.

This thread is one giant weakness.

A monolith teleporting list is by no mean unbeatable. I can be good, but any fast moving army will cause serious problems. Jump infantry, moving 12 and then running will catch you in two turns, and trukks will do it faster. I would like to know the lists that you and your friends used for these games so that I can see why they might think its unbeatable. Because it is defiantly not.

i haven't had any problems killing the necrons with my Imps, throw enough lead(autocannon/heavybolter/battlecannon) and flashlights at them and they will phaze out in a few turns...of course i'll lose about 60% of my own forces before that happens but a win is a win...

I'm amazed theres such pity given to Necrons, im failing to unerstand why they are bad.

1500 points

Necrons:

Necron Lord (veil of darkness) 160p
40 Necron Warriors 720p
Monolith x 2 470p
Destroyer x 3 150p

My main opponent "Squig 101" would use something like this http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/225909.page

(edited for typo)

I keep hoping for a new SM troops choice,Panelbeaters!

Darth wrote:I'm amazed theres such pity given to Necrons, im failing to unerstand why they are bad.

1000 points

Necrons:

Necron Lord (veil of darkness) 160p
40 Necron Warriors 720p
Monolith x 2 470p
Destroyer x 3 150p

My main opponent "Squig 101" would use something like this http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/225909.page

Uh Darth, thats 1500pts not 1000. That may be your unbeatable problem right there.

quozl wrote:Your friends are clearly slowed. My sympathies to them.

Necrons are one of the worst armies in 5th ed. Not THE worst, but pretty damn bad.

Amusingly, Orcs and Chaos are two of the best.

Us slowed people take offence. I'm slowed and I've never lost to Necrons

Darth, thats a 1500 point list. No wonder your opponents cant beat you. 500 points is quite a handicap. are you sure that was the right list?

his list is enlarged to match mine, dont worry im not quite that stupid

his list is enlarged to match mine, dont worry im not quite that stupid

I'm not sure how the Orks could POSSIBLY lose to Necrons with 120 boyz and 15 koptas.

Turn 1: Scout the bikes, fly 12" then charge 2 warrior squads. Bam 2 warrior squads get cut down and half the Necron army is gone.

The rest of the boyz get in combat turn 2 or turn 3.

Use the orbital bombardment against a monolith, IIRC, the monolith only ignores the 2d6 bonus of melta weapons, not ordinance. on average, your SM opponent will kill that monolith.

So now about 1/4 of your plan is toast.

The rest of the army either targets your warriors at long range, or CC. Ignoring the monoliths completely.

That's one of the key's to winning in games like this: Target prioritization. If you can't kill a target with what you have, ignore it, and focus on the things you can kill.

If your opponent took the massive boy horde and 12 deff kopta list then I do not see how you won.

I blasted at the orks until he arrived, then i used the veil to teleport a squad of warriors to the other side of the board. The monoliths moved 6 while teleporting necrons towards them again and again rapid firing at the greenskins.

Bunker wrote:

And Necron players feel sorry for someone who has to buy into the flavor of the month army just to win games.

I guess that makes us even, eh?

LOL Imperial Guard a "flavor of the month army" LOL.

Did your Ork Friend know about the run rule? and monoliths can only move 6 inches a turn. so how the heck did you manage to play keep away the whole game?

He did try but as there was only a few PK nobz it took a long time, besides i think you may be underestimating what even a few turns of necron rapid fire can do to orks.

You can have fun with TLOS and Monoliths. I saw a Necron player use his monoliths as a mobile wall hiding his warriors.

That tactic works quite well.

Necrons have the potential to be a strong(ish) list in 5th. The problem is there is really only one or two strong builds for them. Making a good necron army involves the following:

1. Select Deceiver + 20 Warriors.
2. Choose either 0, 1, or 2 Monoliths.
3. Fill rest of army with Destroyers/ H. Destroyers.
4. ???
5. Perform Mediocre!

Necrons are very (VERY) beatable. They have very few decent builds. They generally require a good player to perform well at tournaments.

Ork wrote:Necrons have the potential to be a strong(ish) list in 5th. The problem is there is really only one or two strong builds for them. Making a good necron army involves the following:

1. Select Deceiver + 20 Warriors.
2. Choose either 0, 1, or 2 Monoliths.
3. Fill rest of army with Destroyers/ H. Destroyers.
4. ???
5. Perform Mediocre!

Necrons are very (VERY) beatable. They have very few decent builds. They generally require a good player to perform well at tournaments.

Your post has the potential to be very contradictory and confusing!

Ork wrote:Necrons have the potential to be a strong(ish) list in 5th. The problem is there is really only one or two strong builds for them. Making a good necron army involves the following:

1. Select Deceiver + 20 Warriors.
2. Choose either 0, 1, or 2 Monoliths.
3. Fill rest of army with Destroyers/ H. Destroyers.
4. ???
5. Perform Mediocre!

Necrons are very (VERY) beatable. They have very few decent builds. They generally require a good player to perform well at tournaments.

I hate to criticize you but i feel thats a sweepign statement, as for the list its pretty terrible.

Why on earth would you want to deceiver over the nightbringer, and what about phase out?

The deceiver's abilities are much more useful then the Nightbringer's.

Whitedragon has a point Darth. Depending on what you want to do, the Deceiver CAN be a better choice.

From some of what I've been reading, Im not sure if you're misinterpreting a couple rules. Just to check.

1) Monoliths can fire a template or teleport a unit, not both in the same turn.
2) Monoliths only every move 6
3) Monoliths pull units from 18 inches and they emerge immediately from the monolith portal. They don't get to whip across the board. They can only pull 1 unit per turn.

Gauss weapons, how are you shredding vehicles with these?

1) They're shortranged for the most part
2) They need a 6 to trigger the gauss rule, and this just glances, with a -2 on the table, even if you roll a 6 you've merely immobilized the enemy tank.
3) If you're close enough to utilize these, you're going to get charged more often than not, unless its a destroyer.

With the combat res rules and getting run down in 5th edition, I can't see how you aren't getting creamed by those opponents, unless you're maybe playing a few necron rules wrong on accident.

Note: Im not by any means saying you're cheating. Im just saying from reading this I wonder if you maybe didn't misread some selections (mostly the monolith) and have it doing things it actually can't.

targetawg,

Yes i am aware of those rules, however me and my friends have only recently started 40k. Aside from our lack of experiance i do think there is an element of ignorance of Necrons.

I think we should make a battlereport, then you can anylise this better.

Could be fun to

Tau can beat necrons easy

get a bunch of hammerheads and sky ray gunships and poof! there go your monoliths.

And watch as the hammerhead only gets one shot and sky rays can only glance...

Hahaha tau cant beat necrons easy thats just dumb to think that. i would say they are fairly even.

This is painful. Necrons got it so hard in 5th edition, and now to be so ludicrously misunderstood...its a sad, sad thing.

Point: The Deceiver is murder made manifest. Anyone who's ever seriously played Necrons at the tournament scene won't even consider any other HQ. Particularly the NightBringer. Misdirect > Everything.

Point: While the Necrons have certainly been mangled by the rules changes, they can still thrash tau. Seriously, name one thing in the Tau codex that can outshoot Immortals at 24". I'll wait.

Point: I'm overreacting. I'll stop.

Tau have an easier time than most. They can focus oodles of fire power and up it to BS5 with marker lights. They have more str 10 shots than anyone.

A properly built tau army will cream a necron one every game, as they're one of the few armies that doesn't have to ignore the monolith, they can just shoot it down.

Also, they can put in tons of no save firepower (see big suit teams) that can shoot down a whole squad pretty easily in one volley.

Hammerheads may be one shot, but broadsides come in teams, each getting TL'd railguns, and 2+ saves, which as we said before, is a headache for crons to deal with.

Aidian watch as a nightbringer wrecks your hammerhead and moves onto the sky ray next turn, as the monlith deepstrikes with a deadly cargo of pariahs and a lord who start destroying your fire warriors.

Each army is equal, they each have there own styles.

I dont think aidan will change his mind, he's obviously just wants to say "Hahaha tau are best!" all day.

Xav wrote:Aidian watch as a nightbringer wrecks your hammerhead and moves onto the sky ray next turn, as the monlith deepstrikes with a deadly cargo of pariahs and a lord who start destroying your fire warriors.

Each army is equal, they each have there own styles.

I dont think aidan will change his mind, he's obviously just wants to say "Hahaha tau are best!" all day.

Nightbringer will not wreck a hammerhead unless the tau player is blind. Im not saying OMFG TAU ARE AWESOME or anything, just the nightbringer rarely if ever makes combat with anything, due to his 6 inch movement, especcially not a skimmer.

Second, lord and pariahs? Someone uses pariahs? They're rediculously overpriced, they aren't necrons so don't get WBB or count towards phase out, and they have 1 attack.

I'd love pariahs to go after my fire warriors, they'd kill a 100 point squad as a 500 point squad, then get rapid fired to death the next turn when they're standing in the open.

Pariahs = fail.

Necrons biggest strength is resilience to enemy shooting.
Their biggest weakness is in assault.
Tau's biggest strength is shooting.
Their biggest weakness is in assault.

Yeah, railguns can bring down monoliths. Big whoop.
Kill the warriors in melee and you'll get game over much faster.

Honestly, the Necron army's biggest strength is how poorly it is understood by most players, to which this thread is testament. If you're familiar with the codex pretty much any competitive army will trounce Necrons.

You just wait until necrons lose phase out.... THEN THEY WILL BE UNBEATABLE! Maybe.

Your chaos player needs to fast and flagellate himself for 1 week as penance for crying about necrons.

Xav wrote:Aidian watch as a nightbringer wrecks your hammerhead and moves onto the sky ray next turn, as the monlith deepstrikes with a deadly cargo of pariahs and a lord who start destroying your fire warriors.

Each army is equal, they each have there own styles.

I dont think aidan will change his mind, he's obviously just wants to say "Hahaha tau are best!" all day.

Well Said.

Ok maybe some other units or something comes out of the monalith but your missing my point completely, aidan was showing off tau's best units like suits, hammerheads etc, but didnt think of what the necrons could dish out, (maybe pariahs wont the best example).

I find that alot of people including myself, write a list, think of all the damage it can do and dont think of what your opponent could do back.

Cant a nightbringer charge 18"?

Nightbringer can move an assault or move and run i guess.

Your right, in general many people are ignorant of other armies, especially the Necrons.

As for aiden we shoudnt worry, he was only posting threads about making his first tau army a few days ago. He is just an over-excited 8 year old.

The necrons can be deadly. I agree that they are mostly misunderstood. However this applies to both view points those that think they are too strong and those that think they are too weak IMHO.

Examples

Phase out.

Necron players fear this and people are gunning to make the necrons phase out as it is often the easiest way to beat them. So many necron players overcompensate with too many warriors in large squads, effectively reducing points that could be used on more effective units. Warriors while good are very beatable in CC. You have just given your opponent a chance to kill more of your stuff with out increasing the amount of targets and they die the same in CC. Basically making you as easy or easier to phase out while weakening your army.

Variety

Necrons have a good amount of useful units. However most necron players tend to find a good unit and spam them, see above paragraph for the most typical example of this. This tends to make the army one dimensional and people think they are dull with few options. This also makes them a rock to some ones scissors. But when you are a rock ya gotta look over your shoulder for that pesky paper. Many necron units NEED to rely on other things to be effective, as over doing one unit type hinders some units from max effectiveness. This is often overlooked in list building and on the table.

Manoverability

The crons have one of the most manoverable armies in the entire game. In 5th edition missions you can win the game with 2 models if they are in the right place. Killing becomes secondary except in kill point missions. With wraiths, swarms, destroyers and heavy destroyers able to move 12 and turbo boost the necrons can cover ground fast. Monolith, swarms and flayed ones can deep strike allowing for cross fires and forcing your opponent to change his battle plans. Necron lord's and Monoliths ability to warp necrons around the board is the cherry on top. Add in running and you can be all over the place. Not to mention flayed ones can infiltrate and out flank. You only get this with a variety of units.

There is much more but these are the important ones IMHO that are often overlooked. I am not saying this is the only way but it is usually ignored in the necron trends. Yes things can stop it and yes they have their weakness, I understand that, but it is worth taking another look at the codex and trying out things that many people say are not worth it. They might surprise you.

Just my 2 cents...

There are obviously good necron players out there who can make the list work, win games and all that. But the initial post asks if necrons are unbeatable. They are not. They are generally considered to be a sub par list lacking in options which is massively hamstrung by giving itself an easy loss condition with no win condition.

Xav wrote:Ok maybe some other units or something comes out of the monalith but your missing my point completely, aidan was showing off tau's best units like suits, hammerheads etc, but didnt think of what the necrons could dish out, (maybe pariahs wont the best example).

I find that alot of people including myself, write a list, think of all the damage it can do and dont think of what your opponent could do back.

Cant a nightbringer charge 18"?

No.

The nightbringer moves 6 inches. He does not have the fleet rule. Therefore he moves 6 inches a turn, and can assault 6, if in range. With 5th edition, he can also run d6 inches in the shooting phase. However, you can NOT assault after running.

He's a slow poke.

Xav wrote:
Each army is equal, they each have there own styles.

You're claiming that large, complex disparate codexs with huge numbers of variables, some of which were even written before the latest version of the rulebook, written by fallible humans, under time pressures are equal?

That is incredibly lacking in basic common sense. You can argue that Necrons aren't relatively weak, fair enough, i disagree, but fair enough. However saying all armies are equal discredits everything else you say.

Have a think about it, do you really believe it, or are you touting the party line?

quozl wrote:

Xav wrote:
Each army is equal, they each have there own styles.

You're claiming that large, complex disparate codexs with huge numbers of variables, some of which were even written before the latest version of the rulebook, written by fallible humans, under time pressures are equal?

That is incredibly lacking in basic common sense. You can argue that Necrons aren't relatively weak, fair enough, i disagree, but fair enough. However saying all armies are equal discredits everything else you say.

Have a think about it, do you really believe it, or are you touting the party line?

ya i agree, army is never equal, in fact how strong they are , are based on :

1) newest army? you bet its strongest
2) GW flag ship army? you bet its right behind the new army.

Maybe its ignorant to claim that the armies are 100 percent equal, buts its fair enough to state that the armies are equal enough for the better player always to win the battle.

This thread originally started about a friend of mine whining about necrons being unbeatable, but soon switched to how terrible the necrons are.

I think we have found a happy medium.

I would say the better player would win the battle more often, but not always.
There's also an argument to be made that being a good player also includes picking the strongest possible lists and armies to play with- certainly, this is what happens at the higher end of the tournament scene a lot.

Alot of this game is list composition.

Darth wrote:Maybe its ignorant to claim that the armies are 100 percent equal, buts its fair enough to state that the armies are equal enough for the better player always to win the battle.

This thread originally started about a friend of mine whining about necrons being unbeatable, but soon switched to how terrible the necrons are.

I think we have found a happy medium.

It's really not that simple: while there is a good argument that Necrons were able to field a few middle tier, competitive lists in 4th edition, the advent of 5th edition and several of the newer, more competitive Codices have inarguably diminished the Necrons.

Several changes in 5th are severely detrimental to Necrons, most especially the run rule and the adjusted leadership when losing close combat. Simply put, Necrons have always been weak in CC, and 5th has made CC both easier to get into and more decisive. While the Monolith has indeed become frighteningly difficult to destroy, the fact also remains that the best way to defeat Necrons has been and remains to ignore it and focus on phase out.

As a long time Necron player I've gradually come to the conclusion that even the better builds are simply underpowered compared to lists made with more recent Codices, and by more recent I don't mean Orks and SM, I mean anything after Codex Eldar (and possibly Tyranids, not completely sure when that was last revised).