I think the writers might have made their point -- that the group has been pushed to their absolute nadir -- and I'm not sure that hitting that same note for 5 more episodes will really accomplish much. After Aaron's arrival, I thought that (comic spoilers ahead)
Spoiler:
...this episode would be the turn of the tide that brings hope and gets them to the safe zone fairly quickly. But from the preview, it looks like there's more paranoia and rough stuff ahead. I guess it's not that much different than the comic. Still, the state of the TV group feels more precarious and desperate to me.
It kinda makes you wonder if there will be anything left of them by the time they reach the safe zone? And in this current state, would the safe zone even have them?
In a way I see Aaron as a litmus test a possible safe haven might use with larger bands like this one. Basically meet with new groups that have potential, determine if they are to far gone, and then decide whether to take them to the safe zone. It's something I'd consider if you could find someone willing to do it.
Overall the episode had some good moments for me. Zombie cliff diving seemed an excellent way of handling them when exhausted and conserving ammo.
I liked showing them having to actually struggle regarding food and water. Something that might not have occurred to them (the group) is that the lack of supplies to salvage might indicate larger or longer lasting survival groups. It should make them more wary.
I was having trouble buying the completely worn down and exhausted thing from the cast. Daryl was about the only one who pulled it off and that's because Norman Reedus looks pretty rough at the best of time. They looked like marginally sweaty people walking down a road to me, not people on the razor edge of survival.
I liked it. I like it when they reinforce how misearble their existence is. What a grind it is just to survive. That may seem weird or sadistic but there have been stretches of the show where I think they have inadvertedly made it look like the zombie apocalypse isn't that bad. Or they simply don't address issues like food and water which in real life would always be what you are thinking about all the time.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I liked it. I like it when they reinforce how misearble their existence is. What a grind it is just to survive. That may seem weird or sadistic but there have been stretches of the show where I think they have inadvertedly made it look like the zombie apocalypse isn't that bad. Or they simply don't address issues like food and water which in real life would always be what you are thinking about all the time.
Bizarely did you notice how imaculate the houses were in the devestated enclave - apart for the odd bit of mess where there had been fights they were all spotless
...don't Farmers spend quite a bit of time thinking about obtaining food? Like from sunrise to sunset...
And farmers would be even more dependent on water. Not to mention the series and comics have addressed issues of staying in one place in the age of hordes of zombies and raiders.
...don't Farmers spend quite a bit of time thinking about obtaining food? Like from sunrise to sunset...
And farmers would be even more dependent on water. Not to mention the series and comics have addressed issues of staying in one place in the age of hordes of zombies and raiders.
Water would there. unless we're talking Central California of course.
Zombie horde comes. Get in truck. Drive to side of horde. Honk horn. Horde turns. Drive away. Done.
Woop da doop.
or Texas style, Zombie roundup! now with new prizes for most zombies, biggest zombie, smallest zombie, and the covetted smelliest zombie!
Is the actor of the new guy at the end, the kid from "that 70's show" as Eric?
Glane is korean and korean is sterotype for eating dogs.... They never show Glane eat the dog. I think TWD was avoiding this issue. My inside comic relief mind was wishing if only Daryl's racist brother was alive...the comment he would make would be funny.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I liked it. I like it when they reinforce how misearble their existence is. What a grind it is just to survive. That may seem weird or sadistic but there have been stretches of the show where I think they have inadvertedly made it look like the zombie apocalypse isn't that bad. Or they simply don't address issues like food and water which in real life would always be what you are thinking about all the time.
Bizarely did you notice how imaculate the houses were in the devestated enclave - apart for the odd bit of mess where there had been fights they were all spotless
Ya, basically if you watching the show and at anytime you think "Meh, Zombie Apocalypse not so bad" somebody done screwed up.
This seems to be one of the first time they've had to deal with the fact gasoline and working cars would not actually be everywhere!
...don't Farmers spend quite a bit of time thinking about obtaining food? Like from sunrise to sunset...
And farmers would be even more dependent on water. Not to mention the series and comics have addressed issues of staying in one place in the age of hordes of zombies and raiders.
Water would there. unless we're talking Central California of course.
Zombie horde comes. Get in truck. Drive to side of horde. Honk horn. Horde turns. Drive away. Done.
Woop da doop.
or Texas style, Zombie roundup! now with new prizes for most zombies, biggest zombie, smallest zombie, and the covetted smelliest zombie!
Oh, Zombie herding is catching on in the comic but it's done with horses not trucks. True Texan style!
Bromsy wrote: I was having trouble buying the completely worn down and exhausted thing from the cast. Daryl was about the only one who pulled it off and that's because Norman Reedus looks pretty rough at the best of time. They looked like marginally sweaty people walking down a road to me, not people on the razor edge of survival.
I saw a survival programme the other night. This guy was down to eating birds the size of a space marine centurion model and picking food out of bear poo because apparently bears have an inefficient digestive system. I guess the cameraman didn't eat anything.
If we're going to bring real life into things, I think it's important to note that the need for access to water and shelter would tend to make survivors stay put once they've found a good spot. The idea that safety is found on the move seems awfully daft. Or at least, I should say it seems daft in a world where the writers DON'T magically invent massive hoards of zombies in rural, remote locations at just the right moments to drive survivors from shelter.
Ultimately, it's a piece of character-focused fiction and not a documentary or "how-to" show. Everything exists only to drive and push these characters along. It doesn't seem intellectually honest to delve too deeply into survival tactics or science on a show that does things like introduce a spontaneous megaflu virus (that made ebola look like the common cold) that was cured by antibiotics.
gorgon wrote: If we're going to bring real life into things, I think it's important to note that the need for access to water and shelter would tend to make survivors stay put once they've found a good spot. The idea that safety is found on the move seems awfully daft. Or at least, I should say it seems daft in a world where the writers DON'T magically invent massive hoards of zombies in rural, remote locations at just the right moments to drive survivors from shelter.
Ultimately, it's a piece of character-focused fiction and not a documentary or "how-to" show. Everything exists only to drive and push these characters along. It doesn't seem intellectually honest to delve too deeply into survival tactics or science on a show that does things like introduce a spontaneous megaflu virus (that made ebola look like the common cold) that was cured by antibiotics.
They got the Prison remember? That got screwed because of the Governor and not zombies.
Almost every "good base" was destroyed by "bad" people. Noah's based... looks like some bad people attacked it. Hershel's farm was over run by walkers... but I would have secure that farm way better than that. What the hell, they got it good and they won't go find supplies like Home Depo and get wood to build fences or put wire around their home. Have their houses with bars on all windows and doors man.
Almost every time that their camp was "suddenly attacked by massive hordes of zombies magically appearing in remote rural locations", it was precipitated by something which actively drew the zombies to that location.
At the Atlanta camp, Glenn drove that sports car with the alarms blaring all the way from Atlanta to the camp. That probably drew huge numbers of walkers out of the city and sent them wandering off into the countryside. The small group that attacked the camp just stumbled across it at random.
At Hershel's farm, Carl found a walker trapped in mud, but he slipped and fell and his gun went off. That probably drew large numbers of walkers in the vicinity towards the woods on the outskirts of the farm. Then, when Shane attempted to kill Rick but Rick stabbed him first, Shane's gun went off and then Carl shot Shane to put his walker corpse down. Those two gunshots attracted the zombies in the woods to attack the farm.
At the Prison, the general noise and activity created by a large group living in one location, plus the frequent comings and goings of people going on supply runs would have attracted zombies on a regular basis. When the Governor and his 2nd army attacked, the huge noise created by their convoy of vehicles (they had a fething tank ) would have had big herds of walkers following them all the way from the camp to the Prison. The noise generated by the firefight would have drawn even more walkers in the vicinity to the Prison.
When Rick and co. are on the road, and a small herd is following them (which they fight at the bridge), its clear that they've been walking on the open road for a long time. If you're walking along a straight open road for a long time, any walkers in the woods that you pass might spot you and begin following you. Other walkers might spot those walkers and begin following them. And thus a herd begins to form.
Its not a case of large groups of walkers magically appearing at the most opportune (or inopportune) moments as a deus ex machina, its that there was something, some noisy event, that actively attracted those walkers to that location. Perhaps the real issue is not "Why do big herds of zombies keep magically appearing?" but "Why do zombies have such a powerful sense of hearing?"
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Almost every time that their camp was "suddenly attacked by massive hordes of zombies magically appearing in remote rural locations", it was precipitated by something which actively drew the zombies to that location.
At the Atlanta camp, Glenn drove that sports car with the alarms blaring all the way from Atlanta to the camp. That probably drew huge numbers of walkers out of the city and sent them wandering off into the countryside. The small group that attacked the camp just stumbled across it at random.
At Hershel's farm, Carl found a walker trapped in mud, but he slipped and fell and his gun went off. That probably drew large numbers of walkers in the vicinity towards the woods on the outskirts of the farm. Then, when Shane attempted to kill Rick but Rick stabbed him first, Shane's gun went off and then Carl shot Shane to put his walker corpse down. Those two gunshots attracted the zombies in the woods to attack the farm.
At the Prison, the general noise and activity created by a large group living in one location, plus the frequent comings and goings of people going on supply runs would have attracted zombies on a regular basis. When the Governor and his 2nd army attacked, the huge noise created by their convoy of vehicles (they had a fething tank ) would have had big herds of walkers following them all the way from the camp to the Prison. The noise generated by the firefight would have drawn even more walkers in the vicinity to the Prison.
When Rick and co. are on the road, and a small herd is following them (which they fight at the bridge), its clear that they've been walking on the open road for a long time. If you're walking along a straight open road for a long time, any walkers in the woods that you pass might spot you and begin following you. Other walkers might spot those walkers and begin following them. And thus a herd begins to form.
Its not a case of large groups of walkers magically appearing at the most opportune (or inopportune) moments as a deus ex machina, its that there was something, some noisy event, that actively attracted those walkers to that location. Perhaps the real issue is not "Why do big herds of zombies keep magically appearing?" but "Why do zombies have such a powerful sense of hearing?"
The lesson is...practice noise discipline.
You made an error about Hershel farm... it was the helicopter that attracted the heard. That made more sense. Remember the heard was so big it broke the wood fence.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Its not a case of large groups of walkers magically appearing at the most opportune (or inopportune) moments as a deus ex machina, its that there was something, some noisy event, that actively attracted those walkers to that location. Perhaps the real issue is not "Why do big herds of zombies keep magically appearing?" but "Why do zombies have such a powerful sense of hearing?"
I don't think it was made explicitly clear what drew the zombies in most of those instances -- you're just filling in blanks in an attempt to make sense of them. They've been involved in *plenty* of gunfire throughout the series, and not all of it has drawn large number of zombies.
And even if a gunshot drew the zombies, there are still obvious questions about their ability to home in accurately on noise over large distances, as you point out. It's difficult for a living human with non-rotted ears to accurately guess the direction of a single gunshot when they're not expecting it. And how much noise would the prison population have made even a mile or two away? They weren't operating heavy machinery.
Moving vehicles drawing large numbers also isn't an easy answer. Yes, Glenn may have drawn zombies into the countryside. But he wasn't a Pied Piper either, if you consider his speed and the likelihood that he made many turns along his route. Sure, back and forth movement from the prison may have drawn some. But it could also have pulled some AWAY, and by taking a circuitous route on the return path, one could have prevented zombies from making a beeline for the prison.
The point is -- it isn't a real world, and it's not a fictional world that holds up to a lot of scrutiny either. You have to suspend your disbelief and resist the urge to pull on the thread.
In most instances, the zombies weren't a deus ex machina, because they weren't a solution to a problem. You could probably make the case for them to be that at Terminus. They are, however, a plot device and not a true antagonist in the narrative in either medium.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Almost every time that their camp was "suddenly attacked by massive hordes of zombies magically appearing in remote rural locations", it was precipitated by something which actively drew the zombies to that location.
The lesson is...practice noise discipline.
It is, but most of the dead have been dead for a couple of years, you have to wonder how good their hearing is. Large groups of them will make a shuffling droning that would muffle other noises too and with the bulk of the dead in the cities, I would think that nearby ones would be attracted to the noises of the cities.
I also think that if activity were going to attract dead then Woodbury would have been overrun long ago, it managed to survive until contact with Rick so there can't have been that many in the local area to form hordes.
Wasn't the horde that overran the prison the one first seen on the road when the scout group ran into them while looking for medicine? They were already on the way to the prison at that point unless it was a different group that hit the prison.
Here's an issue they haven't addressed. How are the dead still able to wander around. After more than a week of exposure to the elements, any muscle tissue should be the consistency of beef jerky now and all soft tissue gone from microbe or fungal activity. Still, the zombies are mostly intact and fairly mobile despite this. No way natural or man-made bacteria or virus could pull this off.
Breotan wrote: Here's an issue they haven't addressed. How are the dead still able to wander around. After more than a week of exposure to the elements, any muscle tissue should be the consistency of beef jerky now and all soft tissue gone from microbe or fungal activity. Still, the zombies are mostly intact and fairly mobile despite this. No way natural or man-made bacteria or virus could pull this off.
We its a bit like - "how do Zombies even manage to bite through human skin given lack of muscles, rotting or missing teeth" - I guess you have to figure some kind of T-virus style enhancement that allows them to exist, continue and have enough strength to be dangerous?
AegisGrimm wrote: Yeah. Somehow a rotting corpse has the bite strength of a xenomorph from Alien.....
indeed. Anyone wearing a motorcycle outfit, or probably just good coveralls would be invulnerable. As bite strength goes, we're strictly third rate, and thats when we're alive.
Unless they were driven by nanobites...from Uranus!
In the Zombie Survival guide it's because the zombie virus is also preventing bacteria and other microbes from decomposing the corpses. In TWD its just not explained but I like to pretend that's why.
AegisGrimm wrote: Yeah. Somehow a rotting corpse has the bite strength of a xenomorph from Alien.....
indeed. Anyone wearing a motorcycle outfit, or probably just good coveralls would be invulnerable. As bite strength goes, we're strictly third rate, and thats when we're alive.
Unless they were driven by nanobites...from Uranus!
Coveralls, leathers? They all wear loose cotton shirts or singlets, bare arms all over the place. Maybe that's why they don't last. Of course at the other end they all have power knives which can go straight through skulls like a chainsword through a grot and which instakils the walkers.
Also, the wilderness only got more crowded after everyone died? Evidently the dead hate crowded cities as much as the living, so they all move out into the country.
That same part of the Michigan Upper Peninsula where I can drive for 20 minutes without seeing another car, in the Walking Dead would be filled with herds of walkers.
AegisGrimm wrote: Also, the wilderness only got more crowded after everyone died? Evidently the dead hate crowded cities as much as the living, so they all move out into the country.
That same part of the Michigan Upper Peninsula where I can drive for 20 minutes without seeing another car, in the Walking Dead would be filled with herds of walkers.
Sinful Hero wrote: Another lively episode. Glad things are finally picking back up.
The gaks about to hit the fan.
I think the point now is have everything do well for several episodes just to keep everyone on the edge of their seat- then to make things utterly horrible. Knocking noises that turn out to just be cats or kids, moaning that ends up being a couple "in the moment", and other such things. Also we'll have the interplay of
Spoiler:
People who have been spoiled by the walls and don't know how to survive outside of it with Rick and his merry band of zombie smashers.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:I'm actually looking forward to it.
It definitely shouldn't last longer than one Season though, like the Governor did.
Agreed - but there's no way
Spoiler:
Negan
is only a 'one season' arc, unfortunately.
Sinful Hero wrote:It really seemed like that arc was dragged out in the comics. It was just so bland and boring to me. It's in a much more interesting place now.
That's kind of what I am afraid of. I was talking about this exact thing with my wife last night; people not being willing to deal with a slower, settling into Alexandria arc. :(
pretre wrote: That's kind of what I am afraid of. I was talking about this exact thing with my wife last night; people not being willing to deal with a slower, settling into Alexandria arc. :(
A bit slower pace where they explore Alexandria won't seem like such a hiccup to me- it sounds interesting like how Beth's kidnapping got me hooked back in to the show. It's
Spoiler:
That bores me to death. It's kinda weird, you'd think
Spoiler:
ultraviolence and swearing would be much more interesting.
I think it was because it was following the DragonBall plotline- oh no, THIS villain is so much more powerful and dangerous than the last one, you'll have to learn new stuff to overcome him!
Sinful Hero wrote: That bores me to death. It's kinda weird, you'd think
Spoiler:
ultraviolence and swearing would be much more interesting.
I think it was because it was following the DragonBall plotline- oh no, THIS villain is so much more powerful and dangerous than the last one, you'll have to learn new stuff to overcome him!
.
I really disagree with this.
Spoiler:
It's not about more powerful villains so much as how those villains represent different steps along the path back to civilization. Some of the things going on in the comic right now represent yet another step. Negan wasn't Governor II, with power ups.
Of course -- and tying this into the other topic of conversation -- there are show viewers who aren't interested in 'civilization.' They just want zombie smashing survival horror. And like I said to earlier in the thread, TWD really might not be the show for you if that's all you want.
I don't think the show will suffer much with their arrival at Alexandria, though. It's the characters and the drama that bring the viewers, and the show can have plenty of that in this setting.
We'll have to see how the show does with the current show runner in a slower setting. He's done an excellent job the last two seasons so there is hope.
I really like Aaron. And I like how they presented him for this and explained his calm with the situation.
Overall another great episode. The group dynamic is excellent right now.
pretre wrote: That's kind of what I am afraid of. I was talking about this exact thing with my wife last night; people not being willing to deal with a slower, settling into Alexandria arc. :(
A bit slower pace where they explore Alexandria won't seem like such a hiccup to me- it sounds interesting like how Beth's kidnapping got me hooked back in to the show. It's
Spoiler:
That bores me to death. It's kinda weird, you'd think
Spoiler:
ultraviolence and swearing would be much more interesting.
I think it was because it was following the DragonBall plotline- oh no, THIS villain is so much more powerful and dangerous than the last one, you'll have to learn new stuff to overcome him!
.
I disagree.
Spoiler:
Negan and the Saviours provide the impetus for Rick to build a coalition and network of settlements. Everyone has to unite and work together to fight back against their mutual enemy. By the end of the Arc, there are 3 LARGE settlements (of comparable size if not bigger than the Prison in Season 4) cooperating closely and on very good, friendly terms. Thats a new development for TWD - different groups of people working together, as opposed to just killing each other on sight.
Even their former enemies, the Saviours (under new management), are cooperating and trading with them, though after a 2 year time gap and the Saviours not having been featured directly yet, just referred to, its not yet clear how friendly they are. But it is clear that they've been at peace, and maintained contact, for TWO YEARS.
The Saviours acted as a catalyst for the rebuilding of civilization.
It should definitely be wrapped up within one Season though.
I say...introduce Mr N. in the Season 5 Finale, and wrap the Arc up by the Season 6 finale, which would bring the show almost up to date with the Comics (Only 12 issues behind or so at the start of Season 7). Kirkman should give the screenwriters a broad outline for the next year or so of the Comics, so the show runners can wrap up the story and end the show with Season 7. Or he could help them write a different ending if he doesn't want to spoil future issues for comic readers, so the show diverges from the Comics (which is what Game of Thrones is doing).
Sinful Hero wrote: That bores me to death. It's kinda weird, you'd think
Spoiler:
ultraviolence and swearing would be much more interesting.
I think it was because it was following the DragonBall plotline- oh no, THIS villain is so much more powerful and dangerous than the last one, you'll have to learn new stuff to overcome him!
.
I really disagree with this.
Spoiler:
It's not about more powerful villains so much as how those villains represent different steps along the path back to civilization. Some of the things going on in the comic right now represent yet another step. Negan wasn't Governor II, with power ups.
Of course -- and tying this into the other topic of conversation -- there are show viewers who aren't interested in 'civilization.' They just want zombie smashing survival horror. And like I said to earlier in the thread, TWD really might not be the show for you if that's all you want.
I don't think the show will suffer much with their arrival at Alexandria, though. It's the characters and the drama that bring the viewers, and the show can have plenty of that in this setting.
I think how TWD has become as big as it is, is because it does appeal to both types of viewers. They've managed to appease both camps- they have zombie smasher episodes with a little character development, and they have character drama episodes with a bit of zombie smashing thrown in. It's a good show altogether I think. We just like different parts of it. I still enjoy the drama, I just prefer the smashing. I assume you enjoy the smashing, but prefer the drama.
Breotan wrote: Well, wearing heavy clothes and/or SWAT gear gets pretty warm in the summertime.
Better being hot than bit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AegisGrimm wrote: Also, the wilderness only got more crowded after everyone died? Evidently the dead hate crowded cities as much as the living, so they all move out into the country.
That same part of the Michigan Upper Peninsula where I can drive for 20 minutes without seeing another car, in the Walking Dead would be filled with herds of walkers.
After three years or whatever it's been I think most of the back roads would be overgrown.
@Computron
They may start breaking up a bit, but roads can last a good while. There are a few that have been closed off for years around here that are still pretty driveable if one were allowed on them. Farther north where you have more freezing and thawing they wouldn't last as long, unless they were concrete.
Really with no one to clear under bridges and whatnot, they should have to worry more about water cutting across and just tearing the road away. That doesn't seem to have happened anywhere, but of course without people around to junk up the creeks that's also less likely to occur.
Sinful Hero wrote: @Computron
They may start breaking up a bit, but roads can last a good while. There are a few that have been closed off for years around here that are still pretty driveable if one were allowed on them. Farther north where you have more freezing and thawing they wouldn't last as long, unless they were concrete.
Really with no one to clear under bridges and whatnot, they should have to worry more about water cutting across and just tearing the road away. That doesn't seem to have happened anywhere,but of course without people around to junk up the creeks that's also less likely to occur.
Sinful Hero wrote: @Computron
They may start breaking up a bit, but roads can last a good while. There are a few that have been closed off for years around here that are still pretty driveable if one were allowed on them. Farther north where you have more freezing and thawing they wouldn't last as long, unless they were concrete.
Really with no one to clear under bridges and whatnot, they should have to worry more about water cutting across and just tearing the road away. That doesn't seem to have happened anywhere,but of course without people around to junk up the creeks that's also less likely to occur.
You're forgetting the herds of walkers....
I haven't seen any walkers throwing mattresses and other garbage off every bridge they can get away with, but I guess it's possible.
Garbage and brush- there are plenty of idiots who just cut down a tree and let it fall in the creek. It's ridiculous. Smh
Sinful Hero wrote: @Computron They may start breaking up a bit, but roads can last a good while. There are a few that have been closed off for years around here that are still pretty driveable if one were allowed on them. Farther north where you have more freezing and thawing they wouldn't last as long, unless they were concrete.
Really with no one to clear under bridges and whatnot, they should have to worry more about water cutting across and just tearing the road away. That doesn't seem to have happened anywhere,but of course without people around to junk up the creeks that's also less likely to occur.
You're forgetting the herds of walkers....
I haven't seen any walkers throwing mattresses and other garbage off every bridge they can get away with, but I guess it's possible.
Garbage and brush- there are plenty of idiots who just cut down a tree and let it fall in the creek. It's ridiculous. Smh
I was speaking literally. Never mind mattresses and garbage. The walkers ARE the garbage. Garbage with legs. And gakky motor control.
Sinful Hero wrote: @Computron
They may start breaking up a bit, but roads can last a good while. There are a few that have been closed off for years around here that are still pretty driveable if one were allowed on them. Farther north where you have more freezing and thawing they wouldn't last as long, unless they were concrete.
Really with no one to clear under bridges and whatnot, they should have to worry more about water cutting across and just tearing the road away. That doesn't seem to have happened anywhere,but of course without people around to junk up the creeks that's also less likely to occur.
You're forgetting the herds of walkers....
I haven't seen any walkers throwing mattresses and other garbage off every bridge they can get away with, but I guess it's possible.
Garbage and brush- there are plenty of idiots who just cut down a tree and let it fall in the creek. It's ridiculous. Smh
I was speaking literally. Never mind mattresses and garbage. The walkers ARE the garbage. Garbage with legs. And gakky motor control.
I knew what you meant- I just don't think they'd be as much a problem as trash. It's a moot point either way- I doubt it'll be addressed in the show. They want the group to use the roads if they need to. Heck, water damage was never even really brought up in the comics.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Compel wrote: So from the sounds of it there could be big worries about complaints about the return of 'the farm?'
From the sounds of it, the general audience prefer the group to be on the move rather than staying in the farm/prison/church.
If so... Could we be seeing a huge audience drop in the future?
Possibly. It depends on how they handle it- they could focus on scouting missions interspersed with drama back at home base. They've done plenty of cut-away episodes before.
Compel wrote: So from the sounds of it there could be big worries about complaints about the return of 'the farm?'
From the sounds of it, the general audience prefer the group to be on the move rather than staying in the farm/prison/church.
If so... Could we be seeing a huge audience drop in the future?
Nah, I really don't think so.
For one thing, *plenty* of viewers are more attached to these characters than they are a particular setting -- on the road, at the farm, at a prison, etc. It's about Rick, Daryl, Michonne, Glenn & Maggie, etc.
For another, the problem with the farm arc IMO wasn't that they were staying put, it was that nothing much happened while they stayed put. That wasn't the case at the prison, even if some of the storylines got a little silly.
The safe zone has plenty of potential for interesting storylines inside the walls (remember that there's an entire population there and not just a single family like the farm), and new threats may emerge outside the walls too.
So I was thinking (comic spoilers ahead)...
Spoiler:
We've seen them tease us with Glenn and baseball bats twice now -- once in Terminus and an another time in Richmond. So is he going to meet his destiny or will we get the 'blender' approach as usual? The blender seems to still be fully operational, as shown by Sasha picking up some of comic Andrea's schtick, etc. But things have also been tracking the comic a little more closely now, and the writers have given us a couple winks as I mentioned.
Frazzled wrote: Glenn is a primary character and a show favorite. Nothing is going to happen to Glenn.
Doesn't have to be Glenn.
Spoiler:
Somebody else could get brained execution style.
Well between Daryl and Glenn, Glenn's going to to go.
Spoiler:
They might find a less disturbing way to do it on the show, but that really seems like a fixed point to me. It sets up who Negan is and lucille is almost as iconic a character as Glenn is
It might explain why thy brought Noah with them. Poor kid, might as well be named next to die.
Is shot through the eye with a crossbow bolt and killed in their first encounter with the Saviours?
Yeah... I think that'll happen to Daryl, not Abraham.
No. This is a TV series with big money riding. They are not going to kill off primary, beloved characters.
Rick, Carl, Daryl, Glenn, and Maggie are safe. You will lose major portions of your audience if any of these guys go away. What happens in the comics is utterly irrelevant.
Is shot through the eye with a crossbow bolt and killed in their first encounter with the Saviours?
Yeah... I think that'll happen to Daryl, not Abraham.
No. This is a TV series with big money riding. They are not going to kill off primary, beloved characters.
Rick, Carl, Daryl, Glenn, and Maggie are safe. You will lose major portions of your audience if any of these guys go away. What happens in the comics is utterly irrelevant.
Not sure why you think Glenn would be spared- he's just Diet Rick.
Is shot through the eye with a crossbow bolt and killed in their first encounter with the Saviours?
Yeah... I think that'll happen to Daryl, not Abraham.
No. This is a TV series with big money riding. They are not going to kill off primary, beloved characters.
Rick, Carl, Daryl, Glenn, and Maggie are safe. You will lose major portions of your audience if any of these guys go away. What happens in the comics is utterly irrelevant.
I've been very meh to the show since Beth died, and she wasn't a major character.
But I may be approaching done at this point. I look forward to Better Call Saul way more.
I'm still posses they killed her off. Her kidnapping was what got me back into the show. Waiting a year to get her back to the group just to have her iced beforehand just soured my mood.
The creator joked on the @Midnight "Walking Dead Episode" that Glenn is going to get his head bashed in by a dude named Negan with a baseball bat named lucille. I'm doubting it happens.
As for characters that can't die that are in the group due to probably ratings/major story complications:
First Tier (Unkillable)
Michonne, Rick, Carl, Daryl, Judith.
Second Tier (Less likely to die)
Glenn and Maggie are close to that group and so is Carol.
Third Tier (Depending on plot development could move up or down)
Sasha, Eugene, Abraham, Preacher, Rosita. With the preacher being the only one likely to drop down instead of stay the same or move up.
Fourth Tier (waiting to die)
Noah, Tara
This isn't counting people who appeared this week. That said I dont' think we're looking at a group death until the finale when the introduce the new big bad. 2 people relatively well loved back to back in the middle of the season puts a bit of a kibosh on that. My money is it being Noah who goes down.
I like your groupings. I know when Carol re-appeared the wife was major jazzed. In the Frazzled household Carol is viewed as the only realistic female from a Texan mindset.
I'd probably rank Glenn & Maggie (together) ahead of Carol. They're the main love story on the show. Carol's a pretty popular character, and killing her off might seem cruel at this point even by TWD standards. STILL, her role is diminished now with the arrival of alpha dog Rick. She's technically kinda expendable.
Personally, I think that if the event we're talking about happens, it's going to have to be higher than a 4th tier character to have the right impact and...introduction. But we'll see.
gorgon wrote: I'd probably rank Glenn & Maggie (together) ahead of Carol. They're the main love story on the show. Carol's a pretty popular character, and killing her off might seem cruel at this point even by TWD standards. STILL, her role is diminished now with the arrival of alpha dog Rick. She's technically kinda expendable.
Personally, I think that if the event we're talking about happens, it's going to have to be higher than a 4th tier character to have the right impact and...introduction. But we'll see.
Spoiler:
If we maintain storylines from the comic:
Glenn is pretty open to die; especially since we need Maggie to become Queen on the Hill. Conversely, this means Maggie is safe.
Carol is pretty safe since she's going to replace Andrea, imo, and Andrea is pretty key in the comics.
gorgon wrote: I'd probably rank Glenn & Maggie (together) ahead of Carol. They're the main love story on the show. Carol's a pretty popular character, and killing her off might seem cruel at this point even by TWD standards. STILL, her role is diminished now with the arrival of alpha dog Rick. She's technically kinda expendable.
Personally, I think that if the event we're talking about happens, it's going to have to be higher than a 4th tier character to have the right impact and...introduction. But we'll see.
Spoiler:
If we maintain storylines from the comic:
Glenn is pretty open to die; especially since we need Maggie to become Queen on the Hill. Conversely, this means Maggie is safe.
Carol is pretty safe since she's going to replace Andrea, imo, and Andrea is pretty key in the comics.
You really think Sasha's getting groomed to be the sniper/general badass/etc when Carol's already there?
Why assume they are even going to have one? They haven't so far.
Spoiler:
Because huge amounts of the alexandria arc involve Andrea being a badass sniper and holding the fort. The tower, etc. Kind of a big deal. And Rick needs a fallback woman, which is Andrea in the comics and probably Carol in the TV show, after the domestic punching bag gets chewed up.
went total commando on Terminus? She was basically a one woman army. Easily shot up in my top 3 favorite characters.
Spoiler:
This totally made me think she was being groomed to replace Andrea. I'm not sure why Andrea dropped out of the series when she was so important in the comics, but they need someone to take her place. After Terminus? That's totally Carol.
You really think Sasha's getting groomed to be the sniper/general badass/etc when Carol's already there?
Spoiler:
Since Terminus, who's been doing all the sniping lately? And did you catch the clip from next week's episode with them at the gate? I really don't think there's any question that she's become the marksman in the group.
You really think Sasha's getting groomed to be the sniper/general badass/etc when Carol's already there?
Spoiler:
Since Terminus, who's been doing all the sniping lately? And did you catch the clip from next week's episode with them at the gate? I really don't think there's any question that she's become the marksman in the group.
Also I'd like to point out that
Spoiler:
Daryl is more tha enough to replace comic-book Andrea as well. Not as a sniper but second-command trouble-shooter kind of way. Actually now that I think about it, he's like a survival Eugene. Kind of has his own place I guess.
You really think Sasha's getting groomed to be the sniper/general badass/etc when Carol's already there?
Why assume they are even going to have one? They haven't so far.
Spoiler:
Because huge amounts of the alexandria arc involve Andrea being a badass sniper and holding the fort. The tower, etc. Kind of a big deal. And Rick needs a fallback woman, which is Andrea in the comics and probably Carol in the TV show, after the domestic punching bag gets chewed up.
went total commando on Terminus? She was basically a one woman army. Easily shot up in my top 3 favorite characters.
Spoiler:
This totally made me think she was being groomed to replace Andrea. I'm not sure why Andrea dropped out of the series when she was so important in the comics, but they need someone to take her place. After Terminus? That's totally Carol.
Spoiler:
they don't mneed any such person. Again the show is not the comic.
Killing "beloved" characters is a brave but risky element - far easier to do it in comics where no one is put out of a job by your actions.......
I am hoping "jinx" Noah gets offed soon - I still blame him for Beth's and Tyresse deaths as well as nearly getting Carol killed.
I like the fact that this is a different story to the comics - not always what they have donewith it - the whole farm epsiodes were a waste of a season, the Governor was toned down -well acted and interesting but toned down. Bored by all of the Prison stuff , liked the aftermath - pretty much all of those espisodes were really strong charcter pieces. The Beth storyline had a major let down in its "lack of pay off".
My fav remaining characters - Carol and Daryl are either radically different in the comics (Carol) or not there (Daryl).
I am hoping they do something different with Alexandria - the most recent episode was better but not great. I'd be happy for them to kill Ric and Judith off and give Carl a whole new arc - maybe as the bad guy which seemed to be posisble in earlier epsiodes - ain't gonna happen but I'd like to see what happens - Glenn taking over the reigns would work, backed by Daryl, Abraham and Carol, but then Daryl was def on the edge of just walking off into the woods a few times..............
I suppose it's a question of: Who can they tell the most stories with?
Admittedly, that didn't work with Beth... I really was banking on Carol dying and Beth carrying the torch.
But still...
Noah's got legs (hurr hurr hurr), and lots of potential for character growth.
Eugene has a redemption arc to earn. So he's safe.
Sascha, I dunno, she might die in the next episode or two, or she'll have quite a long arc. It depends whether they go suicidal or have her working through the losses. - She might very well become a focal point character soon.
Glenn and Maggie? Well, with Glenn's words of 'I was wrong, it really does matter' in the last episode, puts him squarely in the 'moral compass' crosshairs. So I think there's good odds on him being the next to go.
Michonne, still too mysterious-ish, there's plenty of things that can be done with her.
Abraham HAS now reached Washington, technically. I can see a 'journeys end' situation with dying in sight of the Washington Monument.
Daryl and Carol. - I think they're going to explore most stuff with those 2 now. EG how they struggle adapting to Alexandria. They're probably safe for a while at least.
So, my votes for Abraham and Glenn as the next major characters on the chopping block.
Mr Morden wrote: give Carl a whole new arc - maybe as the bad guy which seemed to be posisble in earlier epsiodes - ain't gonna happen but I'd like to see what happens.
Oh trust me...Theres more to come. Carl's gonna be working through some, ugh, issues...soon enough.
It was a good episode but just wish they had spent some more time on the road getting to DC. Swear they get some kind of tax break for never leaving Georgia. It's impossible to escape Georgia!
KamikazeCanuck wrote: It was a good episode but just wish they had spent some more time on the road getting to DC. Swear they get some kind of tax break for never leaving Georgia. It's impossible to escape Georgia!
Well they do get a massive tax break for filming in GA. That was part of the dust-up season 2 when instead of putting that money back into the show it went to Mad Men. They're still in GA now just trying to make it look like VA/DC.
Also the road can't be 100% fraught with peril. They have people who've already made a similar distance journey with them from Texas so it's not like they are learning as they go. I was kinda glad they just skipped it as it would have felt episode of the weeky.
Alpharius wrote: I HIGHLY doubt that they're going to do to Carl in the TV series what was done in the comics.
Maybe something close, but no way...
Agreed - they toned down what the Gov did massively and the vengeance taken against him.............
See similar thing with Tyrion's injury at Blackwater in Game of Thrones - its easy to write or draw major injuries like that - make up for it is a pain.
Alpharius wrote: I HIGHLY doubt that they're going to do to Carl in the TV series what was done in the comics.
Maybe something close, but no way...
Agreed - they toned down what the Gov did massively and the vengeance taken against him.............
See similar thing with Tyrion's injury at Blackwater in Game of Thrones - its easy to write or draw major injuries like that - make up for it is a pain.
Spoiler:
And I they use Neegan, they'll have to tone him down a lot to air on cable. Not sure if he'd be the same character. Of course, they could always just not use that arc as well. Glenn could die from a simple walker bat for example.
I meant to say "bite" but a bat would be hilariously funny.
Alpharius wrote: I HIGHLY doubt that they're going to do to Carl in the TV series what was done in the comics.
Maybe something close, but no way...
Yeah, I tend to agree.
Spoiler:
I *GUESS* that it wouldn't be too big of a deal to have the actor just wear the tape and gauze all the time. They wouldn't have to show the empty socket more than once. They could probably even work it so he could kinda see through it. But it seems like another thing for the makeup people to deal with, and the show to this point has tended to avoid giving the characters significant scars or losses of limbs that the actors and makeup crew would have to deal with for seasons to come.
Herschel lost his leg, but died soon after. Bob, even sooner.
And I they use Neegan, they'll have to tone him down a lot to air on cable. Not sure if he'd be the same character. Of course, they could always just not use that arc as well. Glenn could die from a simple walker bat for example.
I meant to say "bite" but a bat would be hilariously funny.
Spoiler:
Negan's language is certainly an interesting puzzle for the writers.
Carl grows out his hair on one side of his face, to obscure his wound. Later, he wears a pair of glasses with the right eye blacked out. You'd only need to show the actual wound on rare occasions.
****** language is certainly an interesting puzzle for the writers
Indeed. I'm sick of hearing about Nagan from the comics guys.
Frankly I'm done with the Governor type bad guys. We've had two (or 2.5 if you count the Governor II this Time with Tanks) plus cop lady bad guy if you want to count that.
Frazzled wrote: Indeed. I'm sick of hearing about Nagan from the comics guys.
Frankly I'm done with the Governor type bad guys. We've had two (or 2.5 if you count the Governor II this Time with Tanks) plus cop lady bad guy if you want to count that.
Do something different.
Whhhhaaaaaaaattt? You don't like Neegan?! But he's the most boring character from the comics! Of course they'll put him in!
Spoiler:
Actually I think the King would make a much more interesting villain. He has a tiger. Enough said.
KiloFiX wrote: Man, safe place or not, I'd never give up my weapons. Even if it meant living outside.
Amen to that
They let them keep their melee weapons and stuff. I kind of understand a no guns policy. Of course, I would also have blocked off interior sections with security fences so if the outer wall goes down in a location you just vacate that section and you are good, but I'm sure that the perimeter fence is so robust it'll never go down.... right? .... right?
What's kind of starting to bug me is how little the group seems willing to share their personal experiences even when doing so has the greatest likelihood of making their case/improving their position.
I get that they've been through terrible experiences and are reluctant to bring them up because they probably don't want to think or talk about it (pretend it didn't happen to a degree), but when they're entering a new community like this and people are asking them to do things that don't make sense, like give up their guns, it seems to me that explaining *why* the community is doing things stupidly based on their past experiences would actually be a very valuable thing to share. Especially when that community claims to actually be interested in taking them in *because* they are survivors who have been on the outside, and therefore have skills and experience that the people in the community don't necessarily have.
So for example, when they are asked to give up their guns, shouldn't the natural questions be:
"I see that you have walls, which is great for keeping walkers/roamers out, but please tell me what is your community's protocols for defense if/when a group of crazed people show up with a semi-truck or tank, knock down a section of your gate and start killing people? Because we had a pretty heavily fortified prison, and some crazy dude with a tank drove up and blew that up. Similarly, on our way here, we encountered another gated community where one of our members used to live, and that place had a section of its walls knocked down by somebody, and there were no survivors.
So, yes you have walls, but I don't see sentries. Are you watching for people outside scouting the community, probing for weaknesses? Do you have protocols in place if this community comes under attack from other groups of people and if so, what are they?
Finally, if nobody is allowed to have guns, what are your protocols for when somebody *inside* the walls dies and becomes a walker/roamer? How do you expect Grandma to deal with Grandpa if he passes on in the night and comes for her? Have you had to deal with that type of situation yet and if so, how did you deal with it? If not, maybe you should consider *not* taking people's guns and instead give *everyone* guns and teach them how to use them."
The fact that these types of conversations aren't the very first thing that Rick starts asking the lady during the interview really kind of irks me. At this point in that 'world' the #1 thing that should be on everyone's mind is: What do we do if other people attack us (can we deal with it)? What do we do if walkers come en masse (can we deal with it)? And what do we do if people inside our walls turn into a walker (can we deal with it)?
I think they don't bring all of that stuff up right away for several reasons:
1) They see how soft everyone is off the bat and the single dude with a gun meeting them and figure with or without guns they can handle it.
2) They aren't 100% staying at the time of the interview so the community plans don't matter yet.
3) They dont' even think about the someone turning in their sleep because they are all young to middle aged and can handle the situation with their meelee weapons and so dont' really think about it.
I think those questions will start to be asked more now that he's in charge of basically internal security. I also think it's partially plot devices to allow for tension in the community over later episodes.
And considering Aaron seems like the only competent field guy they seem to have they probably aren't really worried about it. I did think the congress woman's son carrying the cannon for a run was hilarious. And little Glenn dropping him without trying was pretty hilarious.
Also Norma Reetus is awesome. You could feel the animal in him in every scene he's not with his "family". Never still, always prowling, always watching. And Carol is amazing too.
Also Norma Reetus is awesome. You could feel the animal in him in every scene he's not with his "family". Never still, always prowling, always watching. And Carol is amazing too.
I think Glen and even like Carl are finely tuned 'operators' at this point.
We also don't know what else was discussed in the videos. Besides, IMO it's wasteful to spend spending valuable chunks of episode time in a short season on discussion of community "protocols." Let that stuff become part of the storytelling in episodes to come.
I feel like they were trying to hard in the preview to make it look like Aaron was shooting at Daryl. Sadly we seem to have another death next week as there is another suprise guest on the Talking Dead. Fingers crossed we don't. We've had enough character deaths this season (Bob, Tyreese, and Beth). We're good for a bit.
@Pretre
Agreed, that was excellent. This was, overall, an excellent episode I felt.
Yeah, my wife and I are super excited about the Alexandria arc.
Spoiler:
They are pushing the domestic abuse wife on Rick pretty hard, which is understandable because of later events.
We missed Carl getting in a fist fight over his gun.
Didn't Michonne become a constable after Rick f'd up?
Little girl looks to be an eventual replacement for Sophia.
The outside supports make sense for walkers, but highlight how much they aren't expecting/ready for humans.
Hulksmash wrote: I feel like they were trying to hard in the preview to make it look like Aaron was shooting at Daryl. Sadly we seem to have another death next week as there is another suprise guest on the Talking Dead. Fingers crossed we don't. We've had enough character deaths this season (Bob, Tyreese, and Beth). We're good for a bit.
@Pretre
Agreed, that was excellent. This was, overall, and excellent episode I felt.
pretre wrote: I loved the composition of the final shots.
Carol in the light, Daryl in the dark, Rick in the middle of light and dark.
Also, whoever said they were grooming Sasha, I admit you're probably right.
Ha! Although I may yet be proved wrong.
Daryl is in an interesting place. Clearly he was someone who almost benefited from the zombie apocalypse, finding a purpose and better family than he had before. So what do you do with him now? He's obviously at his best operating outside the walls and would be highly effective on supply runs, although he's not a leader or someone you'd want in charge of such things. Especially since he isn't in the comics, it'll be interesting to see if he adapts or changes and ends up becoming more of a leader.
Jessie's arc will be interesting (and possibly highly predictable) given one comic character's absence. She even resembles you-know-who from the comics more than Jessie from the comics.
Carol's situation is also really interesting. She's playing it smart and careful, but in taking that stance, you almost wonder if she's as much a fish out of water in Alexandria as Daryl is. Like Daryl, she's someone who blossomed in some ways after the apocalypse. I guess more to the point -- will Carol *ever* let her guard down, adapt to this new setting, and trust anyone outside the group? I think it's a legit question. Remember that she was 100% ready to go off on her own after Terminus. She seems the most dangerous of all of them right now, and maybe not in a good way.
Strombones wrote: I feel like anytime they get in a car they are destined to crash in someway or another before running frantically into the woods.
I mean, if they just slowed down a little bit they would crash into herds of walkers a lot less. Whats the hurry anyways?
Slowed down? How about look where they're going? It's the damned apocalypse! No one clears the roads anymore so you can't expect to have a clear road and yet the drivers in the group always turn around to talk to the passengers. That's when something appears on the road like a dead car, walking dead etc and suddenly it's holy f---! where'd that come from and then they crash. The exception being the night drive through that herd when they had Aaron in the car - how'd that car stay on the road so long?
Watched the episode last night and mostly enjoyed.
Some very good bits - Rick and co's reactions and the videos were very well done - carol was very clever
Although you do wonder how many people the Alexandrians heard screaming for help and let die outside their perfect little community and if anyone made a serious attempt on the place - thre is a great bit in WWZ novel about a similar place where the rich are ready to surivve the zombies in complete safety and luxury.
Their security seems to consist of two arrogant idiots with a few guns............
best bit was the end line by Ric.............
think she angling for Rick to take over for all of them to survive. Rick group has the experience to survive while they don't
MY only issue with that is which group have been safe for more than a year, with apparently all the home conforts and even a maid service looking at the houses. Ah well Rics cres has arrived so likey to get devestated - like everywhere else they have been
Strombones wrote: I feel like anytime they get in a car they are destined to crash in someway or another before running frantically into the woods.
I mean, if they just slowed down a little bit they would crash into herds of walkers a lot less. Whats the hurry anyways?
Well, I thought the dead battery incident in the RV was a wink to that recurring theme on the show -- and a sign that their ridiculously bad luck was changing -- as much as it was a shoutout to Dale.
Mr Morden wrote: MY only issue with that is which group have been safe for more than a year, with apparently all the home conforts and even a maid service looking at the houses. Ah well Rics cres has arrived so likey to get devestated - like everywhere else they have been
There's a reason they've been so safe...
Spoiler:
The Saviors have been keeping them safe. That's the deal. And, of course, Rick changes that significantly over the next series of arcs...
Mr Morden wrote: MY only issue with that is which group have been safe for more than a year, with apparently all the home conforts and even a maid service looking at the houses. Ah well Rics cres has arrived so likey to get devestated - like everywhere else they have been
There's a reason they've been so safe...
Spoiler:
The Saviors have been keeping them safe. That's the deal. And, of course, Rick changes that significantly over the next series of arcs...
Honestly? I doubt it.
Spoiler:
I'm assuming they just got lucky, or are just out of the way. Noah's encampment(and whoever trashed it) is quite a ways away right?
I'm also going to say they're going to have a new big bad other than the Saviors. Keep the comic people on their toes and interested, and the show-only's don't care anyway. Real trouble won't show up until the finale anyway, if they don't just keep it to tension in Alexandria. I'm thinking it's too early for Saviors anyway-they can avoid that entire arc for another season at least.
I bet the wall-climber is a spy for somebody though.
pretre wrote: Obviously, my statement was based off facts from the comic. That's why things were the way they were there, so I was inferring from that.
Spoiler:
Alexandria wasn't protected by the Saviors in the comics though- right? Jesus went looking for help to fight them. Or am I misremembering again?
pretre wrote: Obviously, my statement was based off facts from the comic. That's why things were the way they were there, so I was inferring from that.
Spoiler:
Alexandria wasn't protected by the Saviors in the comics though- right? Jesus went looking for help to fight them. Or am I misremembering again?
Spoiler:
It was a typical protection racket. They did occasionally dispose of herds of walkers that threatened Alexandria.
I could have sworn the Saviors didn't show up until after they met Jesus. Unless that's right, and what pretre is saying is that in the television show the Saviors are keeping Alexandria safe, which I'm still going to disagree with.
They didn't show up until later, but it was clear that Alexandria had been paying them the entire time. That was why the area was relatively safe and Alexandria was so posh when there was an apocalypse on.
Rick doesn't hear about the Saviours until he meets the people at Hilltop. Then the Saviours find out about Alexandria and come knocking. Prior to that they had a run in with a gang who were not Saviours. If the Saviours were around that gang wouldn't be, it would've been dead or part of the Saviours.
Rick doesn't hear about the Saviours until he meets the people at Hilltop. Then the Saviours find out about Alexandria and come knocking. Prior to that they had a run in with a gang who were not Saviours. If the Saviours were around that gang wouldn't be, it would've been dead or part of the Saviours.
Just came to post that-
Spoiler:
Reread the trades 15-17, and I didn't find anything about the Saviors knowing about Alexandria. According to the dialogue they followed them back to find it.
Didn't the leader lady say something about northern Virginia being evacuated in the episode? Which is why the dead - and probably the living by the same measure - haven't been too much of an issue for them.
Bromsy wrote: Didn't the leader lady say something about northern Virginia being evacuated in the episode? Which is why the dead - and probably the living by the same measure - haven't been too much of an issue for them.
Bromsy wrote: Didn't the leader lady say something about northern Virginia being evacuated in the episode? Which is why the dead - and probably the living by the same measure - haven't been too much of an issue for them.
You are correct sir.
That's an interesting thought. Basically it's been an abandoned wilderness area since the apocalypse.
Frazzled wrote: I like that Rick's just "no biggie, we'll just take over." With different music that would be the words of the Bad Guy.
Different music? They are the words of a bad guy. I think the rest of the season will be about how the some of the gang is not quite ready for civilization.
@yakface That's sort of another reason they didn't explain themselves. Rick's final comment of the episode let's you know what he's thinking about. Also his interview when he's talking about "the people out there" and what they are like. He's the people out there too.
Hulksmash wrote: I feel like they were trying to hard in the preview to make it look like Aaron was shooting at Daryl. Sadly we seem to have another death next week as there is another suprise guest on the Talking Dead. Fingers crossed we don't. We've had enough character deaths this season (Bob, Tyreese, and Beth). We're good for a bit.
Now that's quite the change indeed!
Weren't you part of The Bloodthristy Brigade, clamoring for more Main Character Deaths?!?
Hulksmash wrote: I feel like they were trying to hard in the preview to make it look like Aaron was shooting at Daryl. Sadly we seem to have another death next week as there is another suprise guest on the Talking Dead. Fingers crossed we don't. We've had enough character deaths this season (Bob, Tyreese, and Beth). We're good for a bit.
Now that's quite the change indeed!
Weren't you part of The Bloodthristy Brigade, clamoring for more Main Character Deaths?!?
Hulksmash wrote: I feel like they were trying to hard in the preview to make it look like Aaron was shooting at Daryl. Sadly we seem to have another death next week as there is another suprise guest on the Talking Dead. Fingers crossed we don't. We've had enough character deaths this season (Bob, Tyreese, and Beth). We're good for a bit.
Now that's quite the change indeed!
Weren't you part of The Bloodthristy Brigade, clamoring for more Main Character Deaths?!?
I was in favor of characters dying that I actively disliked or I felt dragged away from the show. They've cleared most of that now
Hulksmash wrote: I feel like they were trying to hard in the preview to make it look like Aaron was shooting at Daryl. Sadly we seem to have another death next week as there is another suprise guest on the Talking Dead. Fingers crossed we don't. We've had enough character deaths this season (Bob, Tyreese, and Beth). We're good for a bit.
Now that's quite the change indeed!
Weren't you part of The Bloodthristy Brigade, clamoring for more Main Character Deaths?!?
I was in favor of characters dying that I actively disliked or I felt dragged away from the show. They've cleared most of that now
You were also the leader of the Dakkadakka's Roaming DeathSquad, that lobbied for the killing of all non main characters as well. Hopefully, you're not getting soft and relinquishing that too.
Hulksmash wrote: I feel like they were trying to hard in the preview to make it look like Aaron was shooting at Daryl. Sadly we seem to have another death next week as there is another suprise guest on the Talking Dead. Fingers crossed we don't. We've had enough character deaths this season (Bob, Tyreese, and Beth). We're good for a bit.
Now that's quite the change indeed!
Weren't you part of The Bloodthristy Brigade, clamoring for more Main Character Deaths?!?
I was in favor of characters dying that I actively disliked or I felt dragged away from the show. They've cleared most of that now
I am in the opposite position - killed off ones I liked and kept ones that annoy me :(
So much awesome for an episode "in location". If the farm had been this well done people wouldn't have complained about it nearly as much.
Interesting seeing Rick go almost "Claimer" on Jessie and Carol is scary. Also excellent episode for Daryl and Aaron. He's my favorite character they've introduced for while so far.
Also enough zombie smashing for those who need that on a weekly basis.
Hulk, I agree. I think the farm had more constraints, just because you really only had one family and Rick's team there. Interactions were fewer and less complicated. Now you have a whole community to work with, and all kinds of gak that can go down.
Spoiler:
It's funny...here I was thinking that Daryl would have a hard time adjusting -- and he has -- but importantly, he is *willing to try.* Perhaps unlike Rick and Carol right now. And now that I think about that, I guess we should have seen that coming. His endorsement of Tyreese's less-violent plan for Beth's extraction showed that he's his own man -- not just muscle for Rick -- and one who's retained some humanity almost in the face of all odds. Beth's influence, perhaps? And he and Aaron have one of the funnier -- and yet surprisingly believable -- bromances around. Daryl is a more complicated, interesting character than many give credit for, and Reedus really does a great, subtle acting job in the role.
Rick...man o man. The dude almost went caveman there. TAKE WO-MAN NOW! Pete is a jerk, and a couple other things too. But that's not exactly shoot-him-dead-in-the-street material there, constable. Ultimately, Rick will pull out just because of his children. But Carol...boy, I think she's headed down a dark path. And I think this may eventually set up another confrontation between Rick and Carol, with Rick having to make a hugely important decision.
So the Wolves appear to be at the door. They've been dropping hint after hint. Maybe they're an expansion/reformulation of the scavengers from the comics? And what exactly are they doing with the zombies?
whembly wrote: ANd yes, they have a wall around the town... but, I'd build smaller walls throughout the towns. So that if someone turns, it's more local.
Or even better, an internal ring with smaller segment walls. That protects against both zombies and intruders.
Aka they just invented the multiwall castle system.
Am I the only one who wants to see Grimes start a coup and form a Ricktatorship? For the good of the people!
Yeah, as Rick and Crew are starting to maybe get across to them, they are set up fine to keep out a few roving zombies, but they are woefully unprepared to fight a coordinated assault by the living. I mean... not even having a lookout posted. Jesus.
So the Wolves appear to be at the door. They've been dropping hint after hint. Maybe they're an expansion/reformulation of the scavengers from the comics? And what exactly are they doing with the zombies?
I don't think so.
It may be "The Whisperers". (the latest hostile group in the current TWD comic issues).
Spoiler:
They may be bringing them forward a Season or two, to give us the "Whisperer" story Arc early before the introduction of the Saviors. Which would delay Negan's debut till next Season.
They seem to fit better with the moniker of "Wolves" better than The Scavengers.The car full of live severed Walker torsos & heads could be supplies. They'll flay the skin and make hides, to use as walker "suits", which they use to make themselves invisible within herds of walkers. The limbs are severed to disable the walkers and make them safe for transport, but they leave the heads "alive" until they're ready to flay the face for masks. Keeping the heads alive possibly delays decay. The Whisperers are, literally, "Wolves in Sheep's Clothing".
Well, rabid sheep perhaps.
They've clearly stalked Rick's group all the way to Washington.
As for branding the Walkers, maybe its a means of communication. Brand a few walkers and let them wander about, or pin them down in a specific location. If another member of their group encounters the walker and sees the brand, they'll know that Friendlies are nearby or were in the area.
Frazzled wrote: Am I the only one who wants to see Grimes start a coup and form a Ricktatorship? For the good of the people!
Oh sure. Add some zombie heads in jars, and Rick would be all set.
Regarding internal zombie security, it's important to note that the houses have outside doors that they can lock at night and internal doors that they can lock and/or close. The presence of closed doors should contain zombie problems resulting from death in one's sleep, etc. pretty well. It was FAR worse that Rick's group didn't close their cell doors at night in the prison, and they paid dearly for it.
Regarding lookouts, etc., this episode made clear that Deanna wants Alexandria to be something like a real town and not an armed camp. Deanna has very long-term goals and perspective. OTOH, Rick has a highly short-term perspective...do whatever it takes to survive right now and don't sweat the consequences. With Deanna's way may come civilization, but obvious risks now and in the nearer future. With Rick's way comes safety now, but the strong possibility of Alexandria turning into Woodbury, and there's no real future in that.
Can a brother get some synthesis over here?
@SCE: (comics spoilers ahead)
Spoiler:
It could be the Whisperers, but we haven't seen the Whisperers using vehicles in the comics, only traveling in zombie packs. The zombie parts were in a truck, and the walls at Richmond looked like they were knocked down by a vehicle. That also suggests that this group are raiders, and the motivations of the Whisperers in the comics are very unclear right now.
Anything could be the case, but when I add the differences in the details and timing together, PLUS add the fact that Kirkman probably wouldn't want the show to get ahead of the comic, the Whisperers aren't my leading candidate.
Whatever's going on with this group seems almost...farm-like? I get the impression that they're cultivating and maybe weaponizing zombies? I dunno.
Regarding internal zombie security, it's important to note that the houses have outside doors that they can lock at night and internal doors that they can lock and/or close. The presence of closed doors should contain zombie problems resulting from death in one's sleep, etc. pretty well. It was FAR worse that Rick's group didn't close their cell doors at night in the prison, and they paid dearly for it.
That doesn't work because if it did, the Zombie plague would never have been an ELE in the first place. As we've seen herds of them can go through fences and push open locked barn doors. Its like a wave thing. Water looks cute unless its a tidal wave crushing by pure force.
Besides they need the innenr walls for bad people as well.
Regarding internal zombie security, it's important to note that the houses have outside doors that they can lock at night and internal doors that they can lock and/or close. The presence of closed doors should contain zombie problems resulting from death in one's sleep, etc. pretty well. It was FAR worse that Rick's group didn't close their cell doors at night in the prison, and they paid dearly for it.
That doesn't work because if it did, the Zombie plague would never have been an ELE in the first place. As we've seen herds of them can go through fences and push open locked barn doors. Its like a wave thing. Water looks cute unless its a tidal wave crushing by pure force.
Besides they need the innenr walls for bad people as well.
I wonder if bars that were sharpened at the front would work against herds. As they came forwards the lead deadites would be squeezed between the sharpened bars and cut into pieces, it would basically be a huge meat grinder.
Regarding internal zombie security, it's important to note that the houses have outside doors that they can lock at night and internal doors that they can lock and/or close. The presence of closed doors should contain zombie problems resulting from death in one's sleep, etc. pretty well. It was FAR worse that Rick's group didn't close their cell doors at night in the prison, and they paid dearly for it.
That doesn't work because if it did, the Zombie plague would never have been an ELE in the first place. As we've seen herds of them can go through fences and push open locked barn doors. Its like a wave thing. Water looks cute unless its a tidal wave crushing by pure force.
So where are the massive herds coming from inside the town? Deep strike? I just don't think there's a substantial risk of one person dying in their sleep, etc. causing a massive problem in that community, given the accommodations and layout.
So I rewatched the most recent episode. I'm guessing the girl (Enid?) has the missing gun. That house is probably where she's escaping to.
And I don't think Deanna is naive at all. She brought Rick's crew in for a reason. Naivety would be thinking that you don't need people like them. I also wouldn't be surprised if she's on to Carol to some degree. Think about it...you have how many interviews with people who are obviously traumatized and scarred by their experiences, and then there's little old Carol, oh gosh oh darn. Carol might be overplaying her hand.
Yeah, you 'd have to wonder why she doesn't worry about naive Susie Homemaker coming in with a group that also has a guy who does his interview in monosyllables while holding a dead opossum, lol.
It just bugs me sometimes how their can still be large groups that are this naive and lacking in Zombie Apocalypse experience. They seem to run into them all the time. The Govenor's people were like that too. Is it is it not that bad out there? How come Rick's group has had so much stuff happen to them? Are they just the unluckiest group on the planet or something?
Enjoyed it alot - Carol and Daryl was great - no surprise there, as was Aaron
Riks crew was done well - Like Sashas story - makes sense
Didn'tt waste too much time on "jinx" Noah or the Priest - least they can be sacrifced when the plot needs another death - soon as possible in my view.
Regarding internal zombie security, it's important to note that the houses have outside doors that they can lock at night and internal doors that they can lock and/or close. The presence of closed doors should contain zombie problems resulting from death in one's sleep, etc. pretty well. It was FAR worse that Rick's group didn't close their cell doors at night in the prison, and they paid dearly for it.
That doesn't work because if it did, the Zombie plague would never have been an ELE in the first place. As we've seen herds of them can go through fences and push open locked barn doors. Its like a wave thing. Water looks cute unless its a tidal wave crushing by pure force.
So where are the massive herds coming from inside the town? Deep strike? I just don't think there's a substantial risk of one person dying in their sleep, etc. causing a massive problem in that community, given the accommodations and layout.
So I rewatched the most recent episode. I'm guessing the girl (Enid?) has the missing gun. That house is probably where she's escaping to.
And I don't think Deanna is naive at all. She brought Rick's crew in for a reason. Naivety would be thinking that you don't need people like them. I also wouldn't be surprised if she's on to Carol to some degree. Think about it...you have how many interviews with people who are obviously traumatized and scarred by their experiences, and then there's little old Carol, oh gosh oh darn. Carol might be overplaying her hand.
Regarding the escape artist, you're probably right that she has the gun. I'm still curious what she's up to. Of course if she was hiding out in that hose she probably overhears the group when they come out to chit-chat, so that'll be interesting.
I'm wondering where Carol's little play is going to- what's the purpose behind the act, and where will it end? I suppose it's to "infiltrate the enemy", but they were asked to be there. It just seems odd to me.
I think Carol's act is to avoid a govenor situation that Michone, Sasha, and Tyreese previously went through. She wants to make sure her family is safe and getting people to trust and talk around harmless ol' her is an excellent way to find out more about where they are so they can respond without being blindsided.
Also I'd bank of Enid having the gun. She was outside the walls when they showed up (Carl saw her) and regularly leaves the encampment it seems so she saw Rick stash it and being a survivor not disimilar to the group is ensuring she has what she needs if things go south.
AegisGrimm wrote: Yeah, you 'd have to wonder why she doesn't worry about naive Susie Homemaker coming in with a group that also has a guy who does his interview in monosyllables while holding a dead opossum, lol.
Right?
Don't forget about Sasha, who gets my vote for the *LAST* person who should be let into a belltower with a sniper rifle at this point. Cripes, she spent that entire last episode making her "Sasha face" and snapping at people.
Glenn and Maggie are all disheveled and desperate, saying how much they need this. Carl's chatting about how he had to kill his mom. Abraham probably spent the whole interview glowering and saying things like "No really...WHERE'S THE DAMN BOOZE!!!" And then....
"Oh hiiiiii! Are there any cookies that need baking?!? Tee-hee!"
Um. Granted, it's a TV show and not the real world. And McBride is hilarious. But in the real world, it would be OBVIOUS that something's up with Carol, whether it's an act or some kind of brain injury.
The guy she talked to in the storeroom seemed like a good dude and a possible romantic interest for her, if she's even capable of that at this point. It'll be interesting to see if something like that would help lift her out of the place she's in.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: It just bugs me sometimes how their can still be large groups that are this naive and lacking in Zombie Apocalypse experience. They seem to run into them all the time. The Govenor's people were like that too. Is it is it not that bad out there? How come Rick's group has had so much stuff happen to them? Are they just the unluckiest group on the planet or something?
You don't think their luck has been comically bad up to this point? Just the rate at which their vehicles seem to fail at the wrong moments feels OTT. I thought that incident with the dead battery poked some fun at that as much as it was a nod to Dale.
Alpharius wrote: Plus maybe she's still helping the people who were 'exiled' - or maybe even someone else?
Like the "W" carving group?
But yeah, either way, she's got the gun - for certain!
Well, the fact that the "W" zombie showed up at that house may not be actually connected, but might be the writers winking and hinting that it's all connected, if that makes sense. It's even possible that (comic spoilers ahead)
Spoiler:
SCE is on to something about this group being the Whisperers, and Enid is some kind of Lydia remix. Still, Lydia is actively (hehe) infiltrating Alexandria, where Enid doesn't seem to like being there.
It doesn't feel like they line up to me even as a remix, but anything's possible given our lack of info. They're both more mysterious groups, as opposed to the Governor's crew, the Hunters, and the guy with the bat. We're probably going to get a good long dose of that guy's brashness, so something more subtle and mysterious in the meantime works for me.
Seems Carol is now Rick's Lieutenant. His "right hand man", definitely did not see that coming when she was introduced. She's come a long way. Also, it seems Sasha is taking on some of Andrea's traits and/or storyline. It's weird that no one in the show ever developed into a super-sniper. It was kind of what made "the group" so dangerous compared to other gangs.
Yeah, it looks like comic Andrea is being "split", in a way. Note who TV Jessie resembles more than comic Jessie.
Rick is hanging with Carol because his head is in a similarly dark place. Meanwhile Michonne is firmly in the light. Daryl looks to be headed toward the light too, as his refusal to take the gun indicated. And note that Rick hesitated before taking it. I think there's going to be a battle for Rick's soul coming up.
Following on what I said earlier, I think either Carol changes, or she's going to end up isolated. Again. Paranoia is a very useful mindset outside the walls. But they're inside the walls now. And as Deanna indicated to Sasha, that's real. Ultimately, the Alexandrians are not their enemy.
Alpharius wrote: There was also a painted (?) warning about the 'Wolves aren't far" or something like that back in Noah's old neighborhood, right?
Something to that effect, yes. Heavy indicator there is a large hostile group roaming around.
Prediction
Spoiler:
Noah from Richmond VA and first clue there on "W"
Alexander is Northern VA where we have a walker with a "W" carved in his forehead
Going to to say the "Wolves" are using Interstate 95 North and know Northern VA has been evac'ed
Also going to say (condition of the carving of the "W") they're in Fredericksburg VA being there's six state roads that branches out (figure Darryl will run into them)
Predicting Darryl on bike will bump into them on 95 near Quantico VA being there's a serious USMC and "Other Government Agencies" there (Its a MPRC and has lots of weapons and ammo there)
Yeah, I'm not so sure the girl is helping the Wolves anymore either. If they have the firepower/strength to raid Noah's community, why bother infiltrating? I suppose to get a look inside, but why wait so many months when she can come and go as she pleases?
Something doesn't add up in that line of thinking.
Mr Morden wrote: Wierd that he and the cowardly priest were not even mentioned in the last episode???
At least not that I recall?
maybe Carol told them a "story" and they ran away
No other Priest though so he defacto has a job
Only if any of the people are christians. They might all be jews and atheists.
At that point of time I think survival is foremost on everyone mind. Like I said on deployments, if I get opted out I do not care whoever is around that's capable on "Giving Last Rites" as long as I get a version of it. I think everyone would respect the what the Individual (Priest: Coward in Walking Dead and not in the REAL WORLD) represent. He can provide a Spiritual Need for anybody. I highly doubt the "Priest: Coward in the Walking Dead and not in the REAL WORLD" is going to go Hell Bent Converting the masses to Christian Faith.
As a comic reader, I honestly have no idea what they're gonna do with Gabriel. He sorta just drops off the radar completely when they reach Alexandria, other than briefly whining about what bad people Rick's group are and the nasty things they've done. Nobody really listens.
Either this next episode will feature said whinging, or they're going to introduce some new and original material for Gabriel.
At that point of time I think survival is foremost on everyone mind. ....He can provide a Spiritual Need for anybody.
These people have all spent the last few years without a priest, not the group or the community - why would they suddenly need one now? Especially one who didn't try to save any of his congregation.
Genuinely religious/spiritual people don't need warlocks, shamans etc for guidance, they get it from their community of their sense in the divine.
Religious leaders are good for bringing communities who share beliefs together, the people in the show are not that kind of community.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: As a comic reader, I honestly have no idea what they're gonna do with Gabriel. He sorta just drops off the radar completely when they reach Alexandria, other than briefly whining about what bad people Rick's group are and the nasty things they've done. Nobody really listens.
Either this next episode will feature said whinging, or they're going to introduce some new and original material for Gabriel.
I suspect he collected a following of those who refuse to face reality and use his sermons as a way to ignore what has happened to the world. I can see him and his crazies causing problems at some point, assuming he's still alive.
At that point of time I think survival is foremost on everyone mind. ....He can provide a Spiritual Need for anybody.
These people have all spent the last few years without a priest, not the group or the community - why would they suddenly need one now? Especially one who didn't try to save any of his congregation.
Genuinely religious/spiritual people don't need warlocks, shamans etc for guidance, they get it from their community of their sense in the divine.
Religious leaders are good for bringing communities who share beliefs together, the people in the show are not that kind of community.
I am not going to get into a religious debate with you
Edit
I am giving him a possible role and the justification on why. If you think I am applying to RL situation then you need to stop taking Walking Dead in all seriousness
I really don't know why "instant resolution" should be expected or even desired. Besides, it looks like some things may happen soon enough, as the show still seems to be following the comic's basic storyline.
Personally, I thought it was a solid episode, with plenty of stuff to discuss. At first I thought Carol's interaction with the kid (Sam?) might be the thing that softens her and pulls her out of the darkness. But then you had the last scene, LOL.
I think Carol is definitely the devil on Rick's shoulder right now. Note now dark the room was when Carol told Rick what he had to do -- a nice touch by the director. And note the absence in that scene of Daryl, who is becoming a moral compass of sorts and might (funnily enough) be one of the angels sitting on Rick's other shoulder (Michonne being the other one). I still think we're headed for a moment in which Carol needs to change or be cut loose again.
Noah's death -- while one of the most gruesome we've seen -- also didn't feel that important or impactful to me. The best thing in that sequence was seeing Eugene stepping up. I think it's going to be fun to watch audiences root for and respect him more and more as things go on.
I also rewatched the previous two episodes last night, and a couple little things occurred to me. I think the scene with Rick handling his gun while watching Jessie and Pete was meant to evoke the scene when Shane (wanting to take Lori for himself) put the rifle crosshairs on Rick. Funny how those tables have turned. And it's also interesting to consider how much the audience has evolved from that time. Somehow Rick's action doesn't see AS horrific as Shane's, does it?
Another little touch from that episode was the "A" symbol. I had thought of The Scarlet Letter last week, but I didn't really notice how in the final scene Jessie and Rick are the only ones to show their "A"s to one other. Although I dunno how much "A" is really going to take place, based on what I think the previews were showing us.
I can see Rick using Noah as justification to take a bigger leadership role being his people are on point. Big guy taking charge at the construction site and Diana son going "Maverick" and setting off the frag on vest being prime examples. I wonder how Rick going to handle the news if them leaving people behind at the first signs of trouble
@gorgon
Not expecting "instant resolution", and I never said that. It just seems that this episode was a continuation of the last one with Rick's group integrating themselves into Alexandria. Other than Daryl driving off, Abraham taking over a group, and Eugene stepping up nothing really happened(apart from Noah's death, but I don't think anyone was surprised). Had plenty of zombie smashing and people gobbling, but sometimes I want a little more you know?
Spoiler:
I guess I just can't be happy with TWD.
I am liking the Carol/kid dynamic. Was hoping they'd do a bonding thing, but they may just drop that for Carol telling Rick to ice him. I figure Rick will confront him in the finale, and just end up arresting him seeing as how he's the constable. I imagine Carol will be hollering for blood.
I imagine she'll be killed off at a pivotal moment to prevent her from upsetting the Alexandria arc too much. She's become a moral compass(a dark one), she's not long for this series!
My wife (who loves WD) remarked at the start of the show "I hope they don't have another episode where they just walk around and nothing happens" and then BAM!
I would be happy enough if they didn't follow the comic arc and just straight up turned Rick and crew into the bad guys (maybe with reception later).
As a wise man once said "You either die a hero, or live to see yourself become the villain...." or something like that.
Rick and Company will absolutely NOT be morphed into the bad guys.
For many reasons, but especially not with no one's favorite baseball player looming large.
Alexandria somehow existed in a somewhat peaceful bubble - they are in no way set up to survive in 'the real world' - as last night's episode when Maggie told Deanna pretty much just that.
They may not like it, but they need it.
Especially as we learned that the Alexandrians' recent deaths were due to their own incompetence and their own "abandon them!" policy.
He admitted to Glen that they "Abandon them"
Which reinforces what was said at the construction site when they had walkers stagger in on them. Which Big Guy knew they were coming due to birds hopping into the air and flying over them. Liked how the way he was motivating himself up to wreck faces
Sinful Hero wrote: @gorgon
Not expecting "instant resolution", and I never said that. It just seems that this episode was a continuation of the last one with Rick's group integrating themselves into Alexandria. Other than Daryl driving off, Abraham taking over a group, and Eugene stepping up nothing really happened(apart from Noah's death, but I don't think anyone was surprised). Had plenty of zombie smashing and people gobbling, but sometimes I want a little more you know?
Spoiler:
I guess I just can't be happy with TWD.
I really don't know what to tell you if your honest takeaway from last night is that "nothing happened."
Alpharius wrote: Rick and Company will absolutely NOT be morphed into the bad guys.
For many reasons, but especially not with no one's favorite baseball player looming large.
Alexandria somehow existed in a somewhat peaceful bubble - they are in no way set up to survive in 'the real world' - as last night's episode when Maggie told Deanna pretty much just that.
They may not like it, but they need it.
Especially as we learned that the Alexandrians' recent deaths were due to their own incompetence and their own "abandon them!" policy.
Well, I think I'd argue that the Alexandrians were pretty well adapted to survive in *their* world. They weren't equipped to survive the worst-case scenario because they didn't need to. And they have some of their gak together with regards to stuff that doesn't involve zombies and raiders (basically the living like civilized humans part). On the other hand, Rick's crew adapted to survive through all kinds of bad, but at a substantial cost (in lives and to their humanity). And it's doubtful that they could have lived much longer out there and like that.
Sasha's statement about Alexandria not being real was indeed bullgak, as Deanna stated. The "world" is not only as Rick and company see it, and indeed as we the audience have seen it to this point. (For one thing, combustion engines in the "real world" don't have to break down after 30 miles of use. ) The danger outside is real, but the promise of something better inside the walls is real too.
@Gorgon
3 things happened to advance the plot last night:
1. Abraham took over the construction crew(a continuation of Rick's crew taking over in general).
2. Alexandria's abandonment policy became known(continuation of what we already know- Alexandria is sheltered).
3. Eugene stood up.
Two of those things were just expanding on what was expected/already know. The last one is a baby step toward character growth. While yes, "things happened" nothing really meaningful occurred.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I suppose we could add Carol finding out about the abusive husband, and the preacher telling Deanna about the group(although I'm sure she already knew that).
Jihadin wrote: He admitted to Glen that they "Abandon them" Which reinforces what was said at the construction site when they had walkers stagger in on them. Which Big Guy knew they were coming due to birds hopping into the air and flying over them. Liked how the way he was motivating himself up to wreck faces
Not so much motivating himself...more like fighting off a panic attack. At this point in the comics, Abraham begins to start suffering PTSD or panic attacks, and begins to dread going outside the walls (waking up in cold sweats etc). Regardless, he always manages to step up and lead by example though.
Also, it appears Francine is the show's version of Holly. Same gloves, hair style and personality.
What part of 'comics talk only in spoiler tags' is difficult to understand?
If you are talking about how a character is different in the comics, that needs to go into spoilers.
If you are talking about characters or events in the comics that don't exist in the TV show (yet), that needs to go into spoiler tags, even if your'e just speculating that those characters/locations might appear on the show someday.
I just don't understand why that is so hard to keep in mind?
----
As for this episode, I found the deaths to be above and beyond gruesome than they've ever done before, and the camera lingered on those deaths for an incredibly long amount of time.
I don't feel like any viewers feel getting killed and eaten by a zombie isn't a terrible fate, so the level of gore and the duration of shots feels more like gleeful pride at showing horrible pain and death, something that really puts me off about horror movies.
I have to say, I didn't care for it. It seemed nedlessly horrible and I'm still constantly surprised at what they're able to put on basic cable TV, when nudity and sex are still so taboo there.
Jihadin wrote: He admitted to Glen that they "Abandon them"
Which reinforces what was said at the construction site when they had walkers stagger in on them. Which Big Guy knew they were coming due to birds hopping into the air and flying over them. Liked how the way he was motivating himself up to wreck faces
Not so much motivating himself...more like fighting off a panic attack. At this point in the comics, Abraham begins to start suffering PTSD or panic attacks, and begins to dread going outside the walls (waking up in cold sweats etc). Regardless, he always manages to step up and lead by example though.
Also, it appears Francine is the show's version of Holly. Same gloves, hair style and personality.
How else one if that situation fights off the panic. You self motivate. He was in full swing when he got hold of the "Flail" on the other side of the excauvator after pushing Fracine up into the cab.....that was a damn Fail right? Abraham was a freaking beast.
Sinful Hero wrote: @gorgon
Not expecting "instant resolution", and I never said that. It just seems that this episode was a continuation of the last one with Rick's group integrating themselves into Alexandria. Other than Daryl driving off, Abraham taking over a group, and Eugene stepping up nothing really happened(apart from Noah's death, but I don't think anyone was surprised). Had plenty of zombie smashing and people gobbling, but sometimes I want a little more you know?
Spoiler:
I guess I just can't be happy with TWD.
I really don't know what to tell you if your honest takeaway from last night is that "nothing happened."
Alpharius wrote: Rick and Company will absolutely NOT be morphed into the bad guys.
For many reasons, but especially not with no one's favorite baseball player looming large.
Alexandria somehow existed in a somewhat peaceful bubble - they are in no way set up to survive in 'the real world' - as last night's episode when Maggie told Deanna pretty much just that.
They may not like it, but they need it.
Especially as we learned that the Alexandrians' recent deaths were due to their own incompetence and their own "abandon them!" policy.
Well, I think I'd argue that the Alexandrians were pretty well adapted to survive in *their* world. They weren't equipped to survive the worst-case scenario because they didn't need to. And they have some of their gak together with regards to stuff that doesn't involve zombies and raiders (basically the living like civilized humans part). On the other hand, Rick's crew adapted to survive through all kinds of bad, but at a substantial cost (in lives and to their humanity). And it's doubtful that they could have lived much longer out there and like that.
Sasha's statement about Alexandria not being real was indeed bullgak, as Deanna stated. The "world" is not only as Rick and company see it, and indeed as we the audience have seen it to this point. (For one thing, combustion engines in the "real world" don't have to break down after 30 miles of use. ) The danger outside is real, but the promise of something better inside the walls is real too.
Not sure if kidding or joking...?
The Alexandrians are not living in reality and they themselves knew it - or at least some of them did!
Computron wrote: Yeah, great scene but where did the flail come from?
Would also be nice to see them securing some more solid construction supplies such as heavy steel flooring rather than corrugated iron.
...and I guess rule #43 when surviving a zombie apocalypse is watch out for revolving doors - they are not your friend.
The flail was actually a construction light stand. He tore it off the generator- the light was the club end of the flail. He held it by the shaft, while the wire formed the chain.
What part of 'comics talk only in spoiler tags' is difficult to understand?
If you are talking about how a character is different in the comics, that needs to go into spoilers.
If you are talking about characters or events in the comics that don't exist in the TV show (yet), that needs to go into spoiler tags, even if your'e just speculating that those characters/locations might appear on the show someday.
I just don't understand why that is so hard to keep in mind?
----
As for this episode, I found the deaths to be above and beyond gruesome than they've ever done before, and the camera lingered on those deaths for an incredibly long amount of time.
I don't feel like any viewers feel getting killed and eaten by a zombie isn't a terrible fate, so the level of gore and the duration of shots feels more like gleeful pride at showing horrible pain and death, something that really puts me off about horror movies.
I have to say, I didn't care for it. It seemed nedlessly horrible and I'm still constantly surprised at what they're able to put on basic cable TV, when nudity and sex are still so taboo there.
That's why its hard to follow this thread. I submit there should be two different threads. TV and unrestricted TWD warfare.
Computron wrote: Yeah, great scene but where did the flail come from?
Would also be nice to see them securing some more solid construction supplies such as heavy steel flooring rather than corrugated iron.
...and I guess rule #43 when surviving a zombie apocalypse is watch out for revolving doors - they are not your friend.
The flail was actually a construction light stand. He tore it off the generator- the light was the club end of the flail. He held it by the shaft, while the wire formed the chain.
Thanks, I watched that episode on a smaller screen so it was hard to tell what it was except that it worked! He had a big grin on his face too.
As for this episode, I found the deaths to be above and beyond gruesome than they've ever done before, and the camera lingered on those deaths for an incredibly long amount of time.
I don't feel like any viewers feel getting killed and eaten by a zombie isn't a terrible fate, so the level of gore and the duration of shots feels more like gleeful pride at showing horrible pain and death, something that really puts me off about horror movies.
I have to say, I didn't care for it. It seemed nedlessly horrible and I'm still constantly surprised at what they're able to put on basic cable TV, when nudity and sex are still so taboo there.
I think I'm in an agreement with you.
Don't get me wrong, I love my gore... but, I'd have to be in the right mindset.
It did seem to be a bit gratituous.
What's wrong with ass and bewbs on the screen? And yet, we're shown zombies chowing down on fresh meat in gooey details.
What part of 'comics talk only in spoiler tags' is difficult to understand?
If you are talking about how a character is different in the comics, that needs to go into spoilers.
If you are talking about characters or events in the comics that don't exist in the TV show (yet), that needs to go into spoiler tags, even if your'e just speculating that those characters/locations might appear on the show someday.
I just don't understand why that is so hard to keep in mind?
----
As for this episode, I found the deaths to be above and beyond gruesome than they've ever done before, and the camera lingered on those deaths for an incredibly long amount of time.
I don't feel like any viewers feel getting killed and eaten by a zombie isn't a terrible fate, so the level of gore and the duration of shots feels more like gleeful pride at showing horrible pain and death, something that really puts me off about horror movies.
I have to say, I didn't care for it. It seemed nedlessly horrible and I'm still constantly surprised at what they're able to put on basic cable TV, when nudity and sex are still so taboo there.
That's why its hard to follow this thread. I submit there should be two different threads. TV and unrestricted TWD warfare.
I DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT COMICS!
Honestly if they were both split one would probably sink anyway. There just isn't enough traffic between the two sides. And comics people would still post in this one just because it has a history now.
Has anything been spoiled for you so far, or do you not like seeing anything mentioning comics at all, even comic-related spoilers?
@computron
Yeah, I think the light actually flew off(or disappeared) after a few swings so it ended up as a mace. It was probably my favorite part of the episode.
As for this episode, I found the deaths to be above and beyond gruesome than they've ever done before, and the camera lingered on those deaths for an incredibly long amount of time.
I don't feel like any viewers feel getting killed and eaten by a zombie isn't a terrible fate, so the level of gore and the duration of shots feels more like gleeful pride at showing horrible pain and death, something that really puts me off about horror movies.
I have to say, I didn't care for it. It seemed nedlessly horrible and I'm still constantly surprised at what they're able to put on basic cable TV, when nudity and sex are still so taboo there.
I think I'm in an agreement with you.
Don't get me wrong, I love my gore... but, I'd have to be in the right mindset.
It did seem to be a bit gratituous.
What's wrong with ass and bewbs on the screen? And yet, we're shown zombies chowing down on fresh meat in gooey details.
'Murrica... we're weird people... dude.
Public hangings, duels, and such have been a part of our culture, same as covering up any lewdness. You take your kids to a hanging, and you run any harlots out of town on a rail. That's basically the Walking Dead in a nutshell. After the "kiss" quite a few people wrote in about how they'd never watch he show again. Caused a bit of a social media uproar.
Noah's death -- while one of the most gruesome we've seen
This sounds great - looking forward to it.
It was pretty rough. More than one person actually gets munched to death in this episode.
Watching it tonight - I really disliked Noah the "jinx" and so happy to se him go - sounds like he manages to get more people killed in the process - sounds like him..............
Sinful Hero wrote: @gorgon
Not expecting "instant resolution", and I never said that. It just seems that this episode was a continuation of the last one with Rick's group integrating themselves into Alexandria. Other than Daryl driving off, Abraham taking over a group, and Eugene stepping up nothing really happened(apart from Noah's death, but I don't think anyone was surprised). Had plenty of zombie smashing and people gobbling, but sometimes I want a little more you know?
Spoiler:
I guess I just can't be happy with TWD.
I really don't know what to tell you if your honest takeaway from last night is that "nothing happened."
Alpharius wrote: Rick and Company will absolutely NOT be morphed into the bad guys.
For many reasons, but especially not with no one's favorite baseball player looming large.
Alexandria somehow existed in a somewhat peaceful bubble - they are in no way set up to survive in 'the real world' - as last night's episode when Maggie told Deanna pretty much just that.
They may not like it, but they need it.
Especially as we learned that the Alexandrians' recent deaths were due to their own incompetence and their own "abandon them!" policy.
Well, I think I'd argue that the Alexandrians were pretty well adapted to survive in *their* world. They weren't equipped to survive the worst-case scenario because they didn't need to. And they have some of their gak together with regards to stuff that doesn't involve zombies and raiders (basically the living like civilized humans part). On the other hand, Rick's crew adapted to survive through all kinds of bad, but at a substantial cost (in lives and to their humanity). And it's doubtful that they could have lived much longer out there and like that.
Sasha's statement about Alexandria not being real was indeed bullgak, as Deanna stated. The "world" is not only as Rick and company see it, and indeed as we the audience have seen it to this point. (For one thing, combustion engines in the "real world" don't have to break down after 30 miles of use. ) The danger outside is real, but the promise of something better inside the walls is real too.
Not sure if kidding or joking...?
The Alexandrians are not living in reality and they themselves knew it - or at least some of them did!
No, what Deanna knows is that the Alexandrians aren't prepared for certain things. They are prepared for other things, and Alexandria is as real as anything else in that world. Deanna's line to Sasha was important.
It's like saying that those of us living in wealthy, modern nations are "not living in reality" because our daily lives aren't as hard or dangerous as those of people living in certain other places around the world. Everyone's lives are real. They're just different, because the conditions around us are different.
And really, which group was thriving at the time of Rick's arrival at Alexandria? Remember that the area around Alexandria was evacuated, leaving it raider-free to this point, and with no zombie populations that the walls can't handle. Alexandria was well adapted to its surroundings. The Alexandrians actually built defenses, had a plan for power, water, etc. They should almost certainly be doing more farming than we've seen, but they're rationing food, dividing up labor, working to extend their defenses, etc. They're working to survive -- there are just some gaps in their thinking and areas in which they lack experience. Deanna's smart enough to realize that these other threats may emerge along the path to civilization.
Enter Rick and company -- but they can't go about their business as if they're on the run, struggling to survive on the road, living moment-to-moment without a plan. Because that's not their reality anymore. The whole thing is about synthesis.
Noah's death -- while one of the most gruesome we've seen
This sounds great - looking forward to it.
It was pretty rough. More than one person actually gets munched to death in this episode.
Watching it tonight - I really disliked Noah the "jinx" and so happy to se him go - sounds like he manages to get more people killed in the process - sounds like him..............
Beth was categorically not Noah's fault. Beth's death was Beth's fault.
He was to blame for Tyreese's death, but then again so was the rest of the group. They arrived at Noah's home to find it burnt down and the residents massacred. They should have forseen a distraught Noah running off looking for his family and doing something stupid. Tyreese's death was a result of collective incompetence.
-We got zombie smashing
-We got Aiden dead (already hated that guy)
-We got Eugene stepping up
-We got Glenn's first experience being responsible for losing someone
-We got massively escalating tension in the Alexandrian government
-We got the double cross of the crazy priest who wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for Rick's group.
-We got a softening of Carol's character
-We got confirmation (of sorts) of abuse from the town drunk doctor.
-We got Abraham being the man.
So much happened in this episode. I really feel like we're not going to see much of anything outside of Alexandria for the rest of the season. Next episode will obviously be a confrontation especially when the dude they brought back claims Glenn and them killed Aiden which has to happen.
This is how you have them stay in one place. It's excellent. I will say that I winced/turned away from part of Noah's death. I get why they did his that way but that was gruesome.
Noah's death -- while one of the most gruesome we've seen
This sounds great - looking forward to it.
It was pretty rough. More than one person actually gets munched to death in this episode.
Watching it tonight - I really disliked Noah the "jinx" and so happy to se him go - sounds like he manages to get more people killed in the process - sounds like him..............
Beth was categorically not Noah's fault. Beth's death was Beth's fault.
He was to blame for Tyreese's death, but then again so was the rest of the group. They arrived at Noah's home to find it burnt down and the residents massacred. They should have forseen a distraught Noah running off looking for his family and doing something stupid. Tyreese's death was a result of collective incompetence.
He stole Carol and Daryls guns and then nearly gets Carol killed when she is run over
Then its him who is the flashpoint and for some bizare reason Beth commits sucicde over him after already sacrifcing herself so he can run away the first time - useless waste of flesh that he is
Then he gets Tyresse killed
Jinx
Now apparently he finally gets killed - good riddence - as I said looking forward to it tonight - now if they can do the same to Fat Useless Sam and the rest of the wasters at the Wall of Dullness in GOT I will be really happy
Finally watched it and it was a good episode but throughout it and afterwards my main thought was about the gruesome violence. Obviously this is a very violent show but it was just taken to a whole new level this episode. I could actually feel the producers just proudly reveling in the horror they were creating. It's like they were just showing off. I don't like it.
What part of 'comics talk only in spoiler tags' is difficult to understand?
If you are talking about how a character is different in the comics, that needs to go into spoilers.
If you are talking about characters or events in the comics that don't exist in the TV show (yet), that needs to go into spoiler tags, even if your'e just speculating that those characters/locations might appear on the show someday.
I just don't understand why that is so hard to keep in mind?
----
As for this episode, I found the deaths to be above and beyond gruesome than they've ever done before, and the camera lingered on those deaths for an incredibly long amount of time.
I don't feel like any viewers feel getting killed and eaten by a zombie isn't a terrible fate, so the level of gore and the duration of shots feels more like gleeful pride at showing horrible pain and death, something that really puts me off about horror movies.
I have to say, I didn't care for it. It seemed nedlessly horrible and I'm still constantly surprised at what they're able to put on basic cable TV, when nudity and sex are still so taboo there.
I've been on the fence about this series for a long time. Is it really worth watching? Anyone who's seen this before, what do you think makes it worth watching?
Sillykid wrote: I've been on the fence about this series for a long time. Is it really worth watching? Anyone who's seen this before, what do you think makes it worth watching?
Interesting characters in an interesting situation. Goes a little over the top sometimes, but is usually ground in reality(as close as zombies can get anyway). Based on an even better comic series.
I prefer the Tv series. It fleshes out characters more and adds more depth to the world through adding quite a bit of extra story. The Governor for instance doesn't have nearly as many scenes in the comics, as is he characterized differently (in the comics his bad side comes out immediately, the tv series starts him as not a nice guy, but its the loss of his "daughter" which sends him over the edge). Similarly the Claimers in the comic are just some random guys with no back story, whereas the tv series has them feature in a number of episodes. So yes, generally I prefer the show as there's so much more world building going on. Admittedly a lot of what could be considered filler if we're following the pace of the comic, but I'm perfectly fine with the extra content, and otherwise they would have outpaced the comic already.
Eugh, though I'll say the latest collected comic volume couldn't come here any faster. :(
This is where I could go all gorgon on you and be like "No, etc. etc. etc." but...
...I can see that.
The comic and the TV show do share some issues (ha!) in dragging certain arcs out waaaay too long.
And the comic tends to really, really hit you over the head with the whole "the human survivors are the real monsters" and "man's inhumanity to man" themes.
Basically the TV series has it's version of each storyline. Sometimes it's better and sometimes it's worse but I'll admit on average they are better post-Govenor (whereas before I usually found them worse).
Anyway, if I'm not mistaken Eugene said in this episode they are actually in DC right now didn't he? Have they actually scaled the Great Wall of Georgia?
Wyrmalla wrote: I prefer the Tv series. It fleshes out characters more and adds more depth to the world through adding quite a bit of extra story. The Governor for instance doesn't have nearly as many scenes in the comics, as is he characterized differently (in the comics his bad side comes out immediately, the tv series starts him as not a nice guy, but its the loss of his "daughter" which sends him over the edge). Similarly the Claimers in the comic are just some random guys with no back story, whereas the tv series has them feature in a number of episodes. So yes, generally I prefer the show as there's so much more world building going on. Admittedly a lot of what could be considered filler if we're following the pace of the comic, but I'm perfectly fine with the extra content, and otherwise they would have outpaced the comic already.
Eugh, though I'll say the latest collected comic volume couldn't come here any faster. :(
On the contrary, the comic version of the Govrernor is fleshed out a lot more, even more so than the tv show, in the Woodbury novels.
In the comics Penny wasn't his daughter. The Governor was actually the younger of two brothers, Penny's uncle. The tv show simplified things a lot by merging the two brothers.
Comic and novel spoilers start here, but it's ancient history for the comics and books and won't spoil future tv episodes.
Spoiler:
His older brother (Philip) was stronger and braver, but goes nuts when his daughter is shot by bandits, to the point that he starts kidnapping people and feeding them to Penny. Philip is killed by their friend Nick , trying to stop him killing a girl. Losing both his niece (whom Brian failed to protect), and his brother sends Brian over the edge. He snaps, kills Nick, and assumes Philips identity (and really believes it too).
He sets himself up as the new leader of Woodbury by killing the National Guard soldier who was the De facto leader when he arrived at Woodbury. Woodbury was being terrorised by a group of soldiers. "Brian" is proclaimed by the community as Governor because he was the only one with the balls to stand up to the soldiers.
His older brother Philip was always the stronger, braver, more forceful and confident one. Brian relied a lot on Philip, so when Philip died assuming his identity is a survival mechanism for Brian.
The comic book governor's just some sadist, it was the novels that gave him a history. Given that I doubt many have read the novels unless they went on the wiki he'd just be some bastard the group meet who decides to do horrible things to them at the drop of a hat (at least the tv version had some buildup with Andrea. The comic one meets the gang then immediately decides to kill them to send a message ...or something).
Mostly to do with Woodbury, but the stories cross over with the main group at times (for instance it was the Governor's group which warned not to enter the gated community at the start of the comics). Woodbury in the novels isn't burned to the ground, rather the survivors repopulate it after the Fall of the Governor for one. The family the Governor meets after the first attack on the prison that take him in when he's a vagrant are from the novels, and were gone well before the comics timeline.
There are some things in the comic that they can do (without time and rating constraints) that they can't do with tv. But there are also some things that you just have to see on tv like zombies on fire or that scene with the overhead view of the car ploughing through zombies at night, etc.
This is where I could go all gorgon on you and be like "No, etc. etc. etc." but...
...I can see that.
The comic and the TV show do share some issues (ha!) in dragging certain arcs out waaaay too long.
And the comic tends to really, really hit you over the head with the whole "the human survivors are the real monsters" and "man's inhumanity to man" themes.
I think this coming Sunday episode Rick and Dianna (politician) is going to have a "Coming to Jesus" talk.
Think we're going to see the "Alex" people want the perks of a normal life with little risk
Rick group going to disabuse them of that idea
Jihadin wrote: I think this coming Sunday episode Rick and Dianna (politician) is going to have a "Coming to Jesus" talk.
Think we're going to see the "Alex" people want the perks of a normal life with little risk
Rick group going to disabuse them of that idea
Nah, they'll save that for the finale. Next episode is going to be Rick's group going all macho and scaring the Alexandrians. Thing happens and they have to rely on them because they are woefully underprepared.
I am a bit worried that Aiden's death, combined with Gabriel's horseraddish, is going to result yet another, "insiders VS outsiders" Falling Skies level wangst fest, that we've already seen a million times before in a million different tv shows and films (Including Walking Dead, twice).
Sinful Hero wrote: Y'know I just realized Deanna thanked Glenn for punching her son. I wonder what she'll do when he gets accused of killing him(by the other dude)?
Pete and Rick went at.
Nicholas (the coward) tried to put the blame on Glen
Glen later on told him he wasn't going out anymore being Glen is saving his life...and theirs
We found out where the missing pistol Rick hid is or has it
Sasha went in a deep deep deeeeeepppppp dark place
"W" making appearance on more Zombies
Darryl might be on the trail of some individuals who makes the "W"
Rick kid noticing the opposite sex now
Someone mention what if the "W" was a "M"...
Michonne knocked Rick out with one hit..
whembly wrote: I see how Michonne takes over as Sheriff... Rick isn't right for that role anymore.
However, Rick wasn't "wrong" either... not acknowledging "the real world" will get them killed.
90 minute finale
Spoiler:
So we're about to find out that Rick is punted from the group "W" makes an appearance.
We're about to find out if Rick is punted and Nicholas pulls the 9mm on Glen and "W" shows up
Deanna about to announce Rick being punted when the church tower goes down in a hail of fire when "W" shows up
Rick walking out the door and behind his group is leaving to and Monroe is there
whembly wrote: I see how Michonne takes over as Sheriff... Rick isn't right for that role anymore.
However, Rick wasn't "wrong" either... not acknowledging "the real world" will get them killed.
Again, it's all REAL, it's just different. Iowa is as real as South Sudan, but they're very different places. Inside Alexandria, you just can't go around killing anyone who stands between you and the girl you wanna get with. Everyone in the group except Rick and Carol seems to understand this.
Alexandria does need Rick badly, but he also has to get his gak together.
Makes me wonder if anyone in the group mentioned to Deana the human destroyed walled settlement that was Noah's home. That makes all of nothern virginia northern virginia. Rick's world is still the world even if they haven't encountered it yet. The threat of human assault is real and was within 60 miles of Alexandria.
Overall awesome episode. Rick is going a little nuts but remember he's lost 3 members of his group in the recent month or so, 2 of them teenagers/early twenties, who were killed because of other groups not being properly acclimated or accepting the world. That has to play a part in his mental processes.
Hulksmash wrote: Makes me wonder if anyone in the group mentioned to Deana the human destroyed walled settlement that was Noah's home. That makes all of nothern virginia northern virginia. Rick's world is still the world even if they haven't encountered it yet. The threat of human assault is real and was within 60 miles of Alexandria.
It's a great point...and is probably a thing where you just have to suspend your disbelief and roll with it, because certain things have to happen.
You're right...in the real world (our world) you'd think that a key point to Rick and Deanna's conflict would be the potential threat that the Wolves present. It's a concrete example of what Rick's talking about with security. And Deanna is apparently a smart enough person that her ears should perk up if she was told "THERE ARE SOME NASTY RAIDERS A FEW DOZEN MILES AWAY FROM ALEXANDRIA WHO'VE ALREADY TAKEN OUT A WALLED SETTLEMENT." You'd think their debate would keep coming back to that, actually.
But it never comes up. Just like no one seems to mention or think twice about the "W"s and dismembered corpses. Because TV. Because it tends to be more thrilling for audiences to know stuff that the characters seem oblivious to. *shrug*
Hulksmash wrote: Makes me wonder if anyone in the group mentioned to Deana the human destroyed walled settlement that was Noah's home. That makes all of nothern virginia northern virginia. Rick's world is still the world even if they haven't encountered it yet. The threat of human assault is real and was within 60 miles of Alexandria.
It's a great point...and is probably a thing where you just have to suspend your disbelief and roll with it, because certain things have to happen.
You're right...in the real world (our world) you'd think that a key point to Rick and Deanna's conflict would be the potential threat that the Wolves present. It's a concrete example of what Rick's talking about with security. And Deanna is apparently a smart enough person that her ears should perk up if she was told "THERE ARE SOME NASTY RAIDERS A FEW DOZEN MILES AWAY FROM ALEXANDRIA WHO'VE ALREADY TAKEN OUT A WALLED SETTLEMENT." You'd think their debate would keep coming back to that, actually.
But it never comes up. Just like no one seems to mention or think twice about the "W"s and dismembered corpses. Because TV. Because it tends to be more thrilling for audiences to know stuff that the characters seem oblivious to. *shrug*
It's the major flaw of TV story telling. You'd think with all the time they have between shots that someone would clue her in on the history of the group. And how they lost their walled city, how the next one they found was full of cannibals. One man was able to lead 2 assaults on the prison using 2 different surviving groups. I guess those scenes had to get cut for more commercials
Hulksmash wrote: Makes me wonder if anyone in the group mentioned to Deana the human destroyed walled settlement that was Noah's home. That makes all of nothern virginia northern virginia. Rick's world is still the world even if they haven't encountered it yet. The threat of human assault is real and was within 60 miles of Alexandria.
It's a great point...and is probably a thing where you just have to suspend your disbelief and roll with it, because certain things have to happen.
You're right...in the real world (our world) you'd think that a key point to Rick and Deanna's conflict would be the potential threat that the Wolves present. It's a concrete example of what Rick's talking about with security. And Deanna is apparently a smart enough person that her ears should perk up if she was told "THERE ARE SOME NASTY RAIDERS A FEW DOZEN MILES AWAY FROM ALEXANDRIA WHO'VE ALREADY TAKEN OUT A WALLED SETTLEMENT." You'd think their debate would keep coming back to that, actually.
But it never comes up. Just like no one seems to mention or think twice about the "W"s and dismembered corpses. Because TV. Because it tends to be more thrilling for audiences to know stuff that the characters seem oblivious to. *shrug*
It's the major flaw of TV story telling. You'd think with all the time they have between shots that someone would clue her in on the history of the group. And how they lost their walled city, how the next one they found was full of cannibals. One man was able to lead 2 assaults on the prison using 2 different surviving groups. I guess those scenes had to get cut for more commercials
I loved take charge Glenn, he's come a long way.
Believe it or not, it is actually VERY easy to not communicate these sorts of things when living in two different realities or dealing with high stress, people gonna die situations.
Rick's group has been screwed over so many times, they're like, "What do you mean you don't understand it's the PEOPLE we need to worry about?" The details about another walled location are obvious to us, but in this kind of situation, it's the obvious stuff that gets assumed as known, and so not explicitly stated.
In contrast, the Alexandrians are living in a world where people are more interested in politicizing than surviving to a degree. They haven't been screwed over enough to understand that they're sheltered. Even if Rick were to say we know another walled location was taken out by people, he wouldn't be believed... especially with the aggression he's displayed this last episode.
But the Alexandrian politics are smart, too. I actually really liked Deanna's discussion with Rick regarding the wife-beater doctor. Bottom line, a doctor is more valuable than a cute-face-babymaker, which is all that woman brings to the group. Emotions be damned, knowledge is the most valuable resource. The doctor can beat his babydropper all he likes as long as he saves lives. And Rick is too dumb/hormonal to get that.
I am really liking this story arc Lots to think about...
Hulksmash wrote: Makes me wonder if anyone in the group mentioned to Deana the human destroyed walled settlement that was Noah's home. That makes all of nothern virginia northern virginia. Rick's world is still the world even if they haven't encountered it yet. The threat of human assault is real and was within 60 miles of Alexandria.
Small nitpick: Alexandria and Richmond are little over 100 miles away from each other.
I know that doesn't seem like much, but considering vehicles and fuel are increasingly harder to come by, a 100+ miles is quite the haul.
hmm not a great episode in our opinion but some stuff I guess..............
Daryl and "friend" off in the woods - cosy.......... Soo the unknown group tie naked women to trees for Zombies to feed on - is the W or M something they brand their own people with perhaps? Maybe they were bored with her - or she had breached some Cult rules?
At least Sasha is actually doing soemthing about the growing zombie population that have now started to arrive at the lost Paradise.
Lets face it - now Ricks crew has arrived the place and most people in are likely doomed (*).
Not sure hiding in a tree trunk is very wise?
but on the positive side - Noah is still dead
The Originals we watched just before was much better
(*) Yes I have the comics but this an't it.............
Knew Noah was dead the moment he made the mistake about talking/having hope for the future. Same too with the 'guy who was an arse now looking like he has seen the error of his ways', was dead the moment he decided to change into a nice guy!
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Finally watched it and it was a good episode but throughout it and afterwards my main thought was about the gruesome violence. Obviously this is a very violent show but it was just taken to a whole new level this episode. I could actually feel the producers just proudly reveling in the horror they were creating. It's like they were just showing off. I don't like it.
That was definitely the most gruesome thing I have seen on TV for a while. It actually made me want to look up the episode and see if there was a guest director, because it reminded me so much of some of the schlock-horror movies and zombie films of the 80's, the Living Dead films and the like. Anyone who has seen some of those films will know what I mean- where the special FX guys would just go mental with the rubber moulds and ketchup. While I'm a massive horror movie fan, it made me turn away from the TV though which again haven't done in a while!
But the Alexandrian politics are smart, too. I actually really liked Deanna's discussion with Rick regarding the wife-beater doctor. Bottom line, a doctor is more valuable than a cute-face-babymaker, which is all that woman brings to the group. Emotions be damned, knowledge is the most valuable resource. The doctor can beat his babydropper all he likes as long as he saves lives. And Rick is too dumb/hormonal to get that.
I am really liking this story arc Lots to think about...
Thats a jump the shark point though.
1. No point of having PoPo then.
2. No reason they can't separate the family and keep the doc too.
3. Easy to motivate the doc. The Governor would know how.
But the Alexandrian politics are smart, too. I actually really liked Deanna's discussion with Rick regarding the wife-beater doctor. Bottom line, a doctor is more valuable than a cute-face-babymaker, which is all that woman brings to the group. Emotions be damned, knowledge is the most valuable resource. The doctor can beat his babydropper all he likes as long as he saves lives. And Rick is too dumb/hormonal to get that.
I am really liking this story arc Lots to think about...
Thats a jump the shark point though.
1. No point of having PoPo then.
2. No reason they can't separate the family and keep the doc too.
3. Easy to motivate the doc. The Governor would know how.
I'm with Frazzled here... although, the show made it clear that he really likes her (he said "no" when she asked him if he'd do this for anyone else) and therefore Rick's motives weren't completely altruistic. But, that doesn't mean Rick was 100% wrong either.
