It only works in a challenge, so you have to have someone to challenge and then if your roll is successful the whole enemy unit is flipping out cuz their HQ is scared.
Kangodo wrote: Yup, I'm interested in the wargear they can select.
changemod wrote: Nah, it means there's a sweet spot they go down quicker to.
Against small arms fire, they're tougher.
Against S8 and 9 weaponry. They're tougher.
The sweet spot that kills them faster? S7 AP3.
You mistyped "plasma and grav".
It's just like MSS, which in theory is better.. unless you are playing against Fearless/ATSKNF.
It's as if the Emperor himself wrote the Codex.
How do you figure MSS is better? MSS added hits (and potentially really awesome hits) and nullified attacks. The new MSS just nullifies attacks.
It also doesn't entirely nullify attacks, just makes it harder to hit (easier to be hit), and it is used in a challenge now, so in combats without a character, useless
Kangodo wrote: The point was more that it's stronger against nearly everything except for two weapon-types which are spammed by one specific faction
col_impact wrote: How do you figure MSS is better? MSS added hits (and potentially really awesome hits) and nullified attacks. The new MSS just nullifies attacks.
Because Fear applies to the entire unit, despite the weird wording it seems to have.
That could actually be good if some Factions in this game (Yes, we all know who I am talking about) didn't have the habit of ignoring entire gameplay-rules.
Pretty sure that almost everyone will argue that the fear doesn't spread to the unit. If it did, hell yes.
Why wouldn't it?
MSS only activates in a challenge, and no where have I seen how fear initiated in a challenge works. Is it just the character in the challenge? Is it the whole unit? We don't have a situation where the active player can choose to apply the fear BEFORE the challenge (MSS isn't rumored to work that way). Just too much up in the air.
I can already see the games: "I challenge you with my MSS-Lord!" -"That gives Fear now, right?" "Yes, on a 3D6Ld-test!" -"Isn't my entire army immune to that?" "Uhm.. uhm.. I guess so.." -"Accept?"
About the rule:
If the test is failed, the unit succumbs to fear – all models in the unit have their Weapon Skill reduced to 1 for the remainder of that Fight sub-phase.
Too bad we have slowed stuff like:
A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule automatically passes Fear and Regroup tests.
Seriously man, who gives a **** about MSS (not meant hostile ) : look at all the new ways to field necrons; MSS were a design choice to counter the weak close combat abilities of necrons, now we can maneuver around ithem, shoot and sturdy those to dead who dare to approach us: let MSS be dead and us conquer new strategies and much cooler ones
It's complete and absolute garbage now and if it actually gave you 10 points back into your army list then it still would be questionable on whether you should take it.
Kersplakastani wrote: Am I the only person who is happy that Praetorians are useful/worth their point cost now? I always thought they looked cool but they weren't a great choice in 5e. The 2 attacks and range boost were really nice.
Are the Praetorians staff weapons buffed range wise do we know?
Yes. 12"
Well, not bad I guess. Better than the measly 6" Mr Ward gave them! (Really?! What fething good is that!?Thank god he's gone!)
Must admit I'm quite jealuos that Necrons got primary weapon... That's totally what the LRBT/LR Demolisher should've had, in order to represent the old lumbering behemoth rule...
Yeah, we're quite possibly one of the strongest assault armies in the game now with all these changes. Wraiths and Praetorians, Destroyer Lords and Bargelords, Ghost Ark Lychguard, Scarab Farms and infiltrating Flayed One chaff... Even more access to rapid fire and charge with a combat character in the unit if you feel like involving the troops.
Who'd have expected someone to field a Necron list where everyone is charging?
changemod wrote: Yeah, we're quite possibly one of the strongest assault armies in the game now with all these changes. Wraiths and Praetorians, Destroyer Lords and Bargelords, Ghost Ark Lychguard, Scarab Farms and infiltrating Flayed One chaff... Even more access to rapid fire and charge with a combat character in the unit if you feel like involving the troops.
Who'd have expected someone to field a Necron list where everyone is charging?
Yup, they still generate them as usual.
Though the wording might have changed a bit:
9. The Spyder can add a single Canoptek Scarab base to a scarab unit within 6", at the start of the movement phase, even if it raises it past the starting amount. Roll a D6 after that, and it takes a wound on a 1.
Who'd have expected someone to field a Necron list where everyone is charging?
I was already doing that with my Scarabs, Spyders, and Wraiths..
Any new on Spyders ? Do they still spawn Scarabs ?
They do still spawn, yes.
I'm very interested in hearing what the new Canoptek formation does given that I'd gathered enough Canoptek for a 2000 point unbound list before. With the reanimation change making MSU more viable I might be able to make a bound version around a core of 5 man immortal squads and Crypteks.
Just a shame actually that these changes make the Tomb Stalker even less viable. Rampage at I4 in a Cron list is the one lovely part, but what use have I for an attention grabbing footslogging Monstrous Creature with no invulnerable save? Already I had nightmares actually getting him into combat.
Hollismason wrote: Yeah you can actually make a pretty cool Assault Army now which is pretty cool. You can still actually run Cronair still if you wanted to.
You could always make a pretty cool assault army.
Difference is that now it is actually viable
Hollismason wrote: Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?
Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.
Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.
Yeah, but you could have several Lords and not use an HQ slot. I haven't seen anything that says the Cryptek is more than 1 per HQ slot, so alot fewer res orb equivelants running round, most likely.
Hollismason wrote: Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?
Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.
Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.
Yeah, but you could have several Lords and not use an HQ slot. I haven't seen anything that says the Cryptek is more than 1 per HQ slot, so alot fewer res orb equivelants running round, most likely.
Hollismason wrote: Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?
Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.
Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.
Yeah, but you could have several Lords and not use an HQ slot. I haven't seen anything that says the Cryptek is more than 1 per HQ slot, so alot fewer res orb equivelants running round, most likely.
And more importantly 1 use only.
The real res orb is one use only. I was discussing the new cryptek ability which mimicks the old res orb (+1 to RP) and not one use only.
Uh the Cryptek ability is not 1 use only the Ressurection Orb is 1 use only. A Necron Lord w/ a Rez Orb and a Cryptek in a unit is going to give it a one time 4++ rerollable save.
There is in fact a Formation that allows you take a Royal court with multiple Crypteks.
Also, they don't take up a HQ slot if you have a Overlord.
Hollismason wrote: Uh the Cryptek ability is not 1 use only the Ressurection Orb is 1 use only. A Necron Lord w/ a Rez Orb and a Cryptek in a unit is going to give it a 4+ rerollable save.
There is in fact a Formation that allows you take a Royal court with multiple Crypteks.
Also, they don't take up a HQ slot if you have a Overlord.
There is a formation, which is great for casual play, but all my local tourneys require the combined arms detatchment, sans Lord of War. I don't think that's uncommon. Formations are fun, but you can't always rely on them.
Hollismason wrote: Uh the Cryptek ability is not 1 use only the Ressurection Orb is 1 use only. A Necron Lord w/ a Rez Orb and a Cryptek in a unit is going to give it a one time 4++ rerollable save.
There is in fact a Formation that allows you take a Royal court with multiple Crypteks.
Also, they don't take up a HQ slot if you have a Overlord.
All I've seen is the one use only thing, haven't seen that one yet.
Hollismason wrote: Uh the Cryptek ability is not 1 use only the Ressurection Orb is 1 use only. A Necron Lord w/ a Rez Orb and a Cryptek in a unit is going to give it a one time 4++ rerollable save.
There is in fact a Formation that allows you take a Royal court with multiple Crypteks.
Also, they don't take up a HQ slot if you have a Overlord.
All I've seen is the one use only thing, haven't seen that one yet.
Crypteks have the special rule Technomancer or whatever it's call that adds +1 to the RP of a unit it is with.
Hollismason wrote: Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?
Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.
Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.
Yep.
Personally I do prefer the idea of Crypteks who don't have a mandatory 30 point upgrade, but I'm biased by my 27 uniquely converted Harbinger models, some of which I haven't even used in a game yet.
Court of Despair: Cairn Wraith and Banshee conversions, using Deathmark, warrior, wraith and Spyder parts.
Court of Destruction: Praetorian and Tesla Immortals with Deathmark heads, modified to have Gauss Cannons and Tesla Cannons on the end of their existing weapons. Leader doubles as Szeras.
Court of the Storm: Anrakyr and Warriors with Deathmark heads, wraith guns to resemble lightning guns.
Court of Transmogrification: A band. Lead and Bass guitarists, singer, drummer, keyboardist.
Court of Generic: Five modified warrior/Immortal/Deathmark hybrids with "Staff of Light" guns.
And two Eternity Crypteks, modelled as Orikan and Toholk the Blinded.
And now? Pretty models, not much use.
Oh well, the Court of Despair and the Court of Generic should be usable as extra Deathmarks. Storm Leader is a passable Imhotek. The band are more an amusing gimmick than a playable unit in the first place.
Hollismason wrote: Uh the Cryptek ability is not 1 use only the Ressurection Orb is 1 use only. A Necron Lord w/ a Rez Orb and a Cryptek in a unit is going to give it a one time 4++ rerollable save.
There is in fact a Formation that allows you take a Royal court with multiple Crypteks.
Also, they don't take up a HQ slot if you have a Overlord.
All I've seen is the one use only thing, haven't seen that one yet.
Crypteks have the special rule Technomancer or whatever it's call that adds +1 to the RP of a unit it is with.
Yeah saw that but does it also add an orb that isn't one use only or over ride that rule as well?
They also get the staff that automatically gives them invisibility for a full turn for 15 points now whether that's a 1 item per army or not we don't know.
Previously the Cryptek stuff was not one per army. Hopefully it's not 1 per army.
Now we have multiple builds that are more than viable. Scarab swarm is still around, little pricier but now we've got better Tomb Blades, Praetorians, Triarch Stalkers ( +1 Ballistic to a squad with in "12, that's pretty sweet), Lych Guard, Cheaper Bargelords ( - some abilities of course) , Better flayed ones, Better Destroyers, Better H. Destroyers.
A actually better rule now Reanimation Protocols is actually a legit better rule. Works on multi-wound models, a improved FNP, ways to increase it's bonus, statistically better on Assault units. It's a better rule.
Hollismason wrote: They also get the staff that automatically gives them invisibility for a full turn for 15 points now whether that's a 1 item per army or not we don't know.
Previously the Cryptek stuff was not one per army. Hopefully it's not 1 per army.
BlaxicanX wrote: Quantum-shielding being AV13 all-around is a pretty big fething deal.
I mean, it single handedly gaks on the Pentyrant build.
Not necessarily, because now tesla destructors are not as effective against them either.
Tomb Blades may be more effective at killing them now. 2 pt upgrade to ignore cover with Nebuloscope and packing ST5 weapons isn't terrible against Flyrants, who I believe are T6. Larger Squads as well.
Also, Tesla isn't less effective it's situationally less effective. If a Tesla Carrying Annihilation Barge never has to Jink then it's always going to get the bonus shots. Now it won't have extra hits on them if they're swooping but if they're just flying normally. Then what's the problem?
According to rumours or semi verified that the AV13 all around only goes away at penetrating hits, they'll be pretty effective against Fliers still.
BlaxicanX wrote: Quantum-shielding being AV13 all-around is a pretty big fething deal.
I mean, it single handedly gaks on the Pentyrant build.
Not necessarily, because now tesla destructors are not as effective against them either.
The thing is, they don't need to even bother with the Flyrants. Once the 'Cron mech wipes out your ground game with relative impunity and all you have left is Flyrants, they're free to rack up the objective points.
Tyrants will be forced to glide in order to capture or contest, and that's pretty much the gg.
I guess there's still electro-grubs, but, I don't think that'll be enough to take down a full 'Cron mech list.
Well that and the fact that on the first turn bottling up in front of a Venomthrope or Malanthrope isn't that great anymore when the Necrons can shoot at the guy giving you great cover saves with ignore cover ST5 weapons. I guess you have Void Shields to.
The Older style Necron army that is was using for so long with Bargelords, Annihilation Barges, and Nightscythes is a little bit less effective now with some of the points increases, but we gained a lot more than the army lost.
We also still don't know the rules for multiple units etc..
Everything I've seen has been rather well predictable and if not that pretty encouraging.
We joke about Fear and how pathetic it is. Really makes you wonder about the guys in the studio and if they really understand that most the armies in the game flat out ignore that rule.
I think one of the biggest take always is actually the melding of super-heavies into normal slots with the Stormlord being the lord of war apparently. Yes, we have the knight codex, but having a t-c'tan and obelisk (and apparently the vault) in normal force org slots is pretty interesting for future codexes.
buddha wrote: I think one of the biggest take always is actually the melding of super-heavies into normal slots with the Stormlord being the lord of war apparently. Yes, we have the knight codex, but having a t-c'tan and obelisk (and apparently the vault) in normal force org slots is pretty interesting for future codexes.
Its like they dont expect people to just say no to SH/GC.
I think its fine. if they can tweak it so they are relatively balanced enough to take i dont think it would be that bad. D weapon changes and Trany changes means it wont be so bad.
Hollismason wrote: The Older style Necron army that is was using for so long with Bargelords, Annihilation Barges, and Nightscythes is a little bit less effective now with some of the points increases, but we gained a lot more than the army lost.
Well, the real "Older style" army is a mix of gauss spam with Destroyer support, a Monolith and maybe a few Wraiths.
Which has... Kinda made a comeback? Not entirely. If you want a single central land raider priced vehicle to rally around I guess I'd suggest a Tesseract Ark. Has a 5++ and some very nice shooting options. That's forge world though, and yeah: Still not a viable core codex Monolith.
What it really comes down to is that pretty much any unit worth assaulting with is going to be some brand of fearless. Most models that are susceptible to fear are going to be gak in melee anyway I.E. Guardsmen, Eldar, Tau etc.
Hollismason wrote: I think it's funny that we get the Tesserract Vault as a Lord of War that thing is crazy , throwing out Apocalyptic Blasts in normal games.
Hollismason wrote: I think it's funny that we get the Tesserract Vault as a Lord of War that thing is crazy , throwing out Apocalyptic Blasts in normal games.
It was a lord of war before. Now, according to the rumors at least, it's a heavy support choice
I haven't seen that rumor, only the one that the Tran-Tan and Obelisk are HS.
We've only gained 2 HS from what we've seen from the Army Builder, and we know the FA and Elite choices already.
So unless one of our 3 previous LoW option became a Troop or HQ (both unlikely) we'll have 2 LoW, Immotek and I'd assume the Vault (since it has the better version of the C'Tan powers)
The Transcendent C'tan appears to literally just be the Shard of the Burning One now. Roughly the same statline as the other Shards, plus it has Deep Strike and Exterminatus used the model as the Burning One and described the Burning One as deep strike capable in the fluff.
Odds are they just reused the name to Retcon it out of Escalation by force.
changemod wrote: The Transcendent C'tan appears to literally just be the Shard of the Burning One now. Roughly the same statline as the other Shards, plus it has Deep Strike and Exterminatus used the model as the Burning One and described the Burning One as deep strike capable in the fluff.
Odds are they just reused the name to Retcon it out of Escalation by force.
I was under the impression it was designed to be a Shard of the Moulder of Worlds (since Writhing Worldscape, the special rule the Tran is rumored to have, was designed to be it's power in the 5th Ed codex)
Hollismason wrote: Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?
Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.
Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.
Yeah, but you could have several Lords and not use an HQ slot. I haven't seen anything that says the Cryptek is more than 1 per HQ slot, so alot fewer res orb equivelants running round, most likely.
I'd be kind of surprised if Crypteks weren't "doesn't use an FOC slot" HQ choices.
Hollismason wrote: Uh the Cryptek ability is not 1 use only the Ressurection Orb is 1 use only. A Necron Lord w/ a Rez Orb and a Cryptek in a unit is going to give it a 4+ rerollable save.
There is in fact a Formation that allows you take a Royal court with multiple Crypteks.
Also, they don't take up a HQ slot if you have a Overlord.
There is a formation, which is great for casual play, but all my local tourneys require the combined arms detatchment, sans Lord of War. I don't think that's uncommon. Formations are fun, but you can't always rely on them.
Going with the ol' Battleforged list or the one in Leviathan should be pretty good still for that.
changemod wrote: The Transcendent C'tan appears to literally just be the Shard of the Burning One now. Roughly the same statline as the other Shards, plus it has Deep Strike and Exterminatus used the model as the Burning One and described the Burning One as deep strike capable in the fluff.
Odds are they just reused the name to Retcon it out of Escalation by force.
I was under the impression it was designed to be a Shard of the Moulder of Worlds (since Writhing Worldscape, the special rule the Tran is rumored to have, was designed to be it's power in the 5th Ed codex)
Well, just look at all the Burning One art we have now. Uses the Transcendent model.
changemod wrote: How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?
Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.
It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.
It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.
I'm super excited about flayed ones. My mind tells me that Praetorians are better in every conceivable way, and that Wraiths will still most likely outclass them, but the old models are so awesome. Plus, they're pretty good on the charge - 5 S4 attacks with shred on MEQ with infiltrate is nothing to sniff at for 13 points. Shame about the whole not fearless thing really.
Hollismason wrote: Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?
Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.
Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.
Yeah, but you could have several Lords and not use an HQ slot. I haven't seen anything that says the Cryptek is more than 1 per HQ slot, so alot fewer res orb equivelants running round, most likely.
I'd be kind of surprised if Crypteks weren't "doesn't use an FOC slot" HQ choices.
Hollismason wrote: Uh the Cryptek ability is not 1 use only the Ressurection Orb is 1 use only. A Necron Lord w/ a Rez Orb and a Cryptek in a unit is going to give it a 4+ rerollable save.
There is in fact a Formation that allows you take a Royal court with multiple Crypteks.
Also, they don't take up a HQ slot if you have a Overlord.
There is a formation, which is great for casual play, but all my local tourneys require the combined arms detatchment, sans Lord of War. I don't think that's uncommon. Formations are fun, but you can't always rely on them.
Going with the ol' Battleforged list or the one in Leviathan should be pretty good still for that.
Not "battleforged only:" A Sinlge combined arms detachment. That's what they run around here. Not really a problem for me, but it does mean no alternate detachments and no formations in the tourneys.
BlaxicanX wrote: Quantum-shielding being AV13 all-around is a pretty big fething deal.
I mean, it single handedly gaks on the Pentyrant build.
Not necessarily, because now tesla destructors are not as effective against them either.
Night Scythe as go-to flyer defence, I guess. Unless one of the formations is kind enough to help out.
Death Ray suffers from being a blast weapon of course. To this day I haven't the slightest clue why Skyfire doesn't let blasts hit flyers.
It probably has to do with how big the model is, so blasts would be much easier to hit (which wouldn't be the case in fluff because altitudes)
Except when things explode they do so in a sphere which means that even if the center of a blast doesn't hit you, the pressure wave and debris should (both of which can put an aircraft out of control and crash it).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hollismason wrote: Yeah I can only think of like 1 army that doesn't and that's Tau? I don't think Tau have a way to ignore fear maybe?
It's pretty much the most useless rule.
Tau, Sisters, Necrons, Nids (outside of Synapse), Orks (depending on their rolls), Guard, Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Necrons.
And I'd have to look to see if Daemons can be affected by Fear since they're not technically Fearless.
Hollismason wrote: Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?
Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.
Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.
Yeah, but you could have several Lords and not use an HQ slot. I haven't seen anything that says the Cryptek is more than 1 per HQ slot, so alot fewer res orb equivelants running round, most likely.
I'd be kind of surprised if Crypteks weren't "doesn't use an FOC slot" HQ choices.
Hollismason wrote: Uh the Cryptek ability is not 1 use only the Ressurection Orb is 1 use only. A Necron Lord w/ a Rez Orb and a Cryptek in a unit is going to give it a 4+ rerollable save.
There is in fact a Formation that allows you take a Royal court with multiple Crypteks.
Also, they don't take up a HQ slot if you have a Overlord.
There is a formation, which is great for casual play, but all my local tourneys require the combined arms detatchment, sans Lord of War. I don't think that's uncommon. Formations are fun, but you can't always rely on them.
Going with the ol' Battleforged list or the one in Leviathan should be pretty good still for that.
Not "battleforged only:" A Sinlge combined arms detachment. That's what they run around here. Not really a problem for me, but it does mean no alternate detachments and no formations in the tourneys.
Sorry, well either way the standard FOC or the Leviathan FOC are both good single FOCs.
changemod wrote: How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?
Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.
It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.
It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.
It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.
changemod wrote: How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?
Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.
It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.
It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.
It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.
Not awful for a durable midfield camper since it should be able to shoot two to three of it's guns per turn... But really, it needs the snap fire to target flyers just as much as barges do, especially since it's marketed as dedicated anti-air.
If it could opt to turn Skyfire on and off at will that alone would make it worth a look.
changemod wrote: How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?
Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.
It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.
It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.
It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.
Right, but they all face different directions. You can't even bring two to bear against a single target. If you could aim all four, then it might be worth considering but as it stands, it's a junker IMO.
changemod wrote: How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?
Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.
It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.
It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.
It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.
Right, but they all face different directions. You can't even bring two to bear against a single target. If you could aim all four, then it might be worth considering but as it stands, it's a junker IMO.
Really comes down to the rules it has for shooting. It might get rules that let the guns aim separately to compensate.
changemod wrote: How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?
Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.
It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.
It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.
It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.
Right, but they all face different directions. You can't even bring two to bear against a single target. If you could aim all four, then it might be worth considering but as it stands, it's a junker IMO.
Really comes down to the rules it has for shooting. It might get rules that let the guns aim separately to compensate.
Given it was described as a Super Heavy Monolith by the Tyranid guy, I'd image it's still a Super Heavy (and thus can shoot it's guns at different targets).
changemod wrote: How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?
Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.
It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.
It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.
It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.
Right, but they all face different directions. You can't even bring two to bear against a single target. If you could aim all four, then it might be worth considering but as it stands, it's a junker IMO.
Really comes down to the rules it has for shooting. It might get rules that let the guns aim separately to compensate.
Given it was described as a Super Heavy Monolith by the Tyranid guy, I'd image it's still a Super Heavy (and thus can shoot it's guns at different targets).
Certainly with 12 inch movement you can use it to control line of sight to a degree whilst it lives, and presumably provoke quite a bit of effort into killing it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and Thunderblitz.
changemod wrote: Certainly with 12 inch movement you can use it to control line of sight to a degree whilst it lives, and presumably provoke quite a bit of effort into killing it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and Thunderblitz.
It just kind of tilts then swings itself and knocks the space marines into the horizon.
changemod wrote: How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?
Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.
It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.
It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.
It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.
Right, but they all face different directions. You can't even bring two to bear against a single target. If you could aim all four, then it might be worth considering but as it stands, it's a junker IMO.
Really comes down to the rules it has for shooting. It might get rules that let the guns aim separately to compensate.
Given it was described as a Super Heavy Monolith by the Tyranid guy, I'd image it's still a Super Heavy (and thus can shoot it's guns at different targets).
And the monolith can currently shoot its guns at different targets anyway
changemod wrote: Certainly with 12 inch movement you can use it to control line of sight to a degree whilst it lives, and presumably provoke quite a bit of effort into killing it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and Thunderblitz.
It just kind of tilts then swings itself and knocks the space marines into the horizon.
Thunderblitz just might be what makes it barely viable.
It crushes something silly enough to stand within 12 inches, fires off an Annie Barge's worth of shots into three units (Four if lucky) for less than the cost of three barges, then blocks some line of sight whilst daring the enemy to shoot back. All whilst giving flyers a slight middle finger.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Don't quite think I could proxy my Pylon as one without four equidistant points to mark the fire points though, sadly.
It's got the fire power of Four Annihilation Barges and can fire independently if it's a Super Heavy. That's not terrible especially considering you now Deep Strike at Combat Speed.
Hollismason wrote: Is that a formation or just a optional slot, I mean does it make sense that there would just be a Deathmark formation that's a unit of Deathmarks?
I think some of those are formations and some of those are just " You can take these units".
It's:
1 Obelisk
0-2 Monoliths
so it's likely a formation. That said it might do something near useless like just extend the dangerous terrain ability by 6".
Also Combat Speed is irrelevant, Super Heavies always count as having not moved for the purposes of shooting.
Hollismason wrote: What the hell level of points to GW think people play. Seriously.
Well, the consensus seeming to form here is that the Obelisk actually ain't too bad for regular play. I mean, assuming you have some way to scrape hull points off a vehicle that has AV 14 and immunity to dying immediately to explodes results at any rate.
Might be very slightly entirely capable of gleefully rampaging through someone without a backup way to pop land raiders once you pop their initial anti tank.
bodazoka wrote: Destroyers getting jump shoot jump basically fixes them completely. Adding another wound and giving them a FnP style save is super gravy.
You could legitimately field a destroyer wing army and be pretty competitive (not uber top tier stuff, just my local meta anyway).
It would be pretty infuriating for an opponent facing off against them when the entire army jumps out and shoots you then hides in your turn! lol
Some of us have been doing that for a long time with Tau...
Looking at the way the MSS is spoiled, I think he might mean it causes a fear like affect? For example, "During a challenge the opposing character takes a leadership test on 3d6, if it passes the model is unaffected, if it fails it attacks with WS1 for the remainder of the fight subphase." That would make for a fairly good adjustment, and less janky wording. Either way I really could care less as MSS was never game breaking in any game I ever played.
Someone with the new Codex was talking on Bell of lost souls.
The source seems to be confirming that the Chronometron, Dispersion Shield, and Resurrection Orb are not artifacts and can be taken in multiples.
I foresee a squad of Lychguard and/or Praetorian with a Cryptek with Dispursion Shield/Solar Staff and a Lord with a Resurrection Orb/Orb of Eternity as a nice beat stick against some friends who thinks assault in 7e is too gimped to be used. Lets see if he likes 2+/3++/4++(4++) bearing down on him.
H.B.M.C. wrote: We joke about Fear and how pathetic it is. Really makes you wonder about the guys in the studio and if they really understand that most the armies in the game flat out ignore that rule.
The bad guys all get Fear so the good guys seem more heroic when they ignore it. That's how you Forge The Narrative.
H.B.M.C. wrote: We joke about Fear and how pathetic it is. Really makes you wonder about the guys in the studio and if they really understand that most the armies in the game flat out ignore that rule.
The bad guys all get Fear so the good guys seem more heroic when they ignore it. That's how you Forge The Narrative.
"I swear to god I'll pistol whip the next person that says [Forge the Narrative]!"
H.B.M.C. wrote: We joke about Fear and how pathetic it is. Really makes you wonder about the guys in the studio and if they really understand that most the armies in the game flat out ignore that rule.
The bad guys all get Fear so the good guys seem more heroic when they ignore it. That's how you Forge The Narrative.
"I sear to god I'll pistol whip the next person that says [Forge the Narrative]!"
I guess we'll have to weld the story from now on then.
Multiple one use items would suck. "So, which unit has an unused resorb in it?".....I demand WYSIWYG. When you use it, you have to cut the model's hand off so I can tell which unit has one.
changemod wrote: Hmm... Doesn't Jet Pack infantry Destroyer Lords destroy their ability to function as part of a Wraith unit?
Yeah, we'll have to see what's up with them. I stated before that they're not good with Wraiths anymore anyway, with the change to Whip Coils and MSS. In fact, if they don't have a decent shooting attack (something more than Staff of Light), they're probably not worth bringing.
Res orbs for the Destroyers/Heavies is nice, and if they can bring the 5++ against shooting upgrade that'd be nice too, but as it stands I dunno what they're supposed to do. Maybe go with Flayed Ones or Lychguard to give them PE.
agnosto wrote: Multiple one use items would suck. "So, which unit has an unused resorb in it?".....I demand WYSIWYG. When you use it, you have to cut the model's hand off so I can tell which unit has one.
agnosto wrote: Multiple one use items would suck. "So, which unit has an unused resorb in it?".....I demand WYSIWYG. When you use it, you have to cut the model's hand off so I can tell which unit has one.
Magnets.
Better hope you don't lose that Res Orb.
LED's are the obvious choice. Keep the unused ones on.
Nilok wrote: Someone with the new Codex was talking on Bell of lost souls.
The source seems to be confirming that the Chronometron, Dispersion Shield, and Resurrection Orb are not artifacts and can be taken in multiples.
I foresee a squad of Lychguard and/or Praetorian with a Cryptek with Dispursion Shield/Solar Staff and a Lord with a Resurrection Orb/Orb of Eternity as a nice beat stick against some friends who thinks assault in 7e is too gimped to be used. Lets see if he likes 2+/3++/4++(4++) bearing down on him.
changemod wrote: Hmm... Doesn't Jet Pack infantry Destroyer Lords destroy their ability to function as part of a Wraith unit?
Yeah, we'll have to see what's up with them. I stated before that they're not good with Wraiths anymore anyway, with the change to Whip Coils and MSS. In fact, if they don't have a decent shooting attack (something more than Staff of Light), they're probably not worth bringing.
Res orbs for the Destroyers/Heavies is nice, and if they can bring the 5++ against shooting upgrade that'd be nice too, but as it stands I dunno what they're supposed to do. Maybe go with Flayed Ones or Lychguard to give them PE.
Striking at a lower initiative alone wouldn't be much of an issue- They're there to provide prefered enemy and a few guaranteed AP2 swipes. It really is the movement issue that kills them.
I guess that if there's a good enough base price drop, they could be used to add PE to large shooty units? Otherwise yes, hard to make good use of. Still, at least with Flayed Ones they could jet forwards to catch up with their infiltration and join the unit, so there's that.
I suspect that their role in the Destroyer Cult may well buff the entire cult whilst he lives. Otherwise, why would it be there?
All I know is that with JSJ I need more Heavy Destroyers. I have 3 with the actual Finecast upgrade kits, but it seems more reasonable to just modify with bits.
Don't forget any weapon that is listed like the staffs etc.. can benefit from the Solar Thermite or whatever it's called from the Mephrit dynasty wargear.
Requizen wrote: All I know is that with JSJ I need more Heavy Destroyers. I have 3 with the actual Finecast upgrade kits, but it seems more reasonable to just modify with bits.
The barrel on the finecast conversion kit is absurdly flimsy and bent. I got three, but in the end I went with attaching the pieces, then trimming the barrel back off and adding the Tesla Cannons from my Annie Barges, adding the end piece from the Gauss cannon that came with the kit, then little leftover bits to disguise the contact point where the gun would have touched the underside of the Barge. Came out quite nicely as a Gauss/Tesla hybrid weapon I can justify as my Dynasty's Crypteks experimenting with weapons tech.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hollismason wrote: Don't forget any weapon that is listed like the staffs etc.. can benefit from the Solar Thermite or whatever it's called from the Mephrit dynasty wargear.
H.B.M.C. wrote: We joke about Fear and how pathetic it is. Really makes you wonder about the guys in the studio and if they really understand that most the armies in the game flat out ignore that rule.
The bad guys all get Fear so the good guys seem more heroic when they ignore it. That's how you Forge The Narrative.
"I swear to god I'll pistol whip the next person that says [Forge the Narrative]!"
"Hey Fargo, what's that mechanic GW has about creating stories with the game?"
One thing I haven't seen anybody mention, but the Conclave with God Shackle is now effectively a 8 Wound T 8 Monster, although it's going to be expensive as hell. Also, I guess both Crypteks would have 4+ RP while the C'tan has 5+ FNP until the Teks go down?
Also, I'm wondering if you double up on Crypteks in a unit can you raise the RP against ID to a 4+? I know you can't get better then a 4+, but can you kind of erase the ID penalty?
Flayed Ones look great. +1 Attack, a much better RP mechanics, Shred and AP 5, and Fear? Wowzers. Oh, and it seems like RC can be attached to them now, yeah? Even better.
So do TPs, although I'm suddenly wishing I had modeled them with Rods. Will be interesting to see if Void Blades change at all. The current version of Entropic seems kind of redundant on top of Rending.
JSJing Destroyers/Heavy Ds with +1 wound and a better RP? Yes please. Also, Heavy D's got a 10 redux. Noice.
Would have liked to see a little bit more done to the Mono but, really, the current version isn't bad at all. I honestly think people wouldn't have abandoned them so quickly if ABs hadn't been so vastly undercosted. Also, it's going to pair quite well with these new JSJing D's and Heavy D's. Because, big ass moving LOS walls kind of work with that whole deal.
Tomb Blades got a huge boost with the point cost reduction, hoping the remove cover scope doesn't cost to much.
They carry Gauss Weapons at ST5 so not to terrible at hitting those Jinking AV10 Fast Skimmers, and not to terrible stripping Hull points off Skimmers with a Jink save.
If they keep the Shadow Loom, cover plus 5++ RP , and T5 makes them to me a stand out unit for the codex if all the rumours come true.
Oh, and I haven't seen a lot of people talk about this:
Command Wave: All Necron friendlies within 12" re-roll failed morale, pinning, and fear tests. If the warlord in the barge has the Immortal Hubris trait (see earlier in thread), command wave range extends to 18".
But that's actually pretty amazing. With Ld 10 that's almost a 12" fearless bubble.
Ok, as a long time necron player (as in, I played them before all the codex hopping power games jumped on the barge-wagon of the last dex) I am happy about some of the changes, but reserved on a few others.
A few thoughts - (if the guy with the codex is legit).
HQ - ws5 and bs5 are nice, but mss went from too good, to pointless. Here is hoping crons have something to stand up to the big beatsticks out there (other than shoot them).
Scarabs - big nerf. basically a wound sink. ws2 is rough - seems like best used to either distract (players who bother to shoot them) or maybe try for a lucky hit, then a lucky 6
New RP - kind of lame from a fluff department, but oh well, works.
New orbs - thats pretty ...um bad.
New artifacts - some good tactical options in there, but most are not worthy of artifact status, but hey, hopefully the points come in.
Barges and snap - well, they needed a nerf, or a points increase. Not both. Oh well, i never used em anyway.
Night and Doom scythe - yeah, they needed a nerf or a buff too....but not both. Personally, i loved the unique use of the old death ray. sad face.
Quantum shielding - if its 13 all around....thats a bit too good (poor nids).
Flayed ones - YEAH. I have 30 of them. if I can get the caked dust off of them.
Destroyers - yeah! I have 15 of them, come to me my pretties.
Lychguard - not bad, will use my pariahs for them.
Tomb Blades - I used my old "lawn chair" destroyers for these guys, and loved them before. Gonna absolutely use them now (curious about upgrade costs). have almost 30.
Monoliths - PLEASE fix the ordnance weapon, please? Sounds like might still be a dust collector (unless you use the formation from shield of baal).
Ctan - if they get two shots (if like a weapon) then the random shooting works out. If they only have a 4++, they are S7 bait and dead. I am REALLY hoping for a at least a base save of 3.
Crypteks - if they have +1 rp, then thats nice....but how do we buy them, and put them in units....only time will tell.
Obelisk - how many points for 4 HP? better have skyfire.
Sounds like some decent options here and there,
Oh, and best quote ever:
Now excuse me while I go forge a narrative about the Necron Dynasty obsessed with carrying useless glass decorative orbs into battle.
changemod wrote: Certainly with 12 inch movement you can use it to control line of sight to a degree whilst it lives, and presumably provoke quite a bit of effort into killing it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and Thunderblitz.
It just kind of tilts then swings itself and knocks the space marines into the horizon.
Hollismason wrote: Yeah I can only think of like 1 army that doesn't and that's Tau? I don't think Tau have a way to ignore fear maybe?
It's pretty much the most useless rule.
Tau, Sisters, Necrons, Nids (outside of Synapse), Orks (depending on their rolls), Guard, Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Necrons.
And I'd have to look to see if Daemons can be affected by Fear since they're not technically Fearless.
Daemons are immune, but there's also Inquisition and Chaos Space Marines who have plenty of non-fearless, non-atsknf models. So, basically, everyone but loyalist Marines, 'Nids and Daemons.
Hollismason wrote: Yeah I can only think of like 1 army that doesn't and that's Tau? I don't think Tau have a way to ignore fear maybe?
It's pretty much the most useless rule.
Tau, Sisters, Necrons, Nids (outside of Synapse), Orks (depending on their rolls), Guard, Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Necrons.
And I'd have to look to see if Daemons can be affected by Fear since they're not technically Fearless.
Daemons are immune, but there's also Inquisition and Chaos Space Marines who have plenty of non-fearless, non-atsknf models. So, basically, everyone but loyalist Marines, 'Nids and Daemons.
But how many armies out of Sisters, CSM, Tau, Necrons, Guard, Eldar, DEldar and Orks actually want to be in combat?
Hollismason wrote: Yeah I can only think of like 1 army that doesn't and that's Tau? I don't think Tau have a way to ignore fear maybe?
It's pretty much the most useless rule.
Tau, Sisters, Necrons, Nids (outside of Synapse), Orks (depending on their rolls), Guard, Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Necrons.
And I'd have to look to see if Daemons can be affected by Fear since they're not technically Fearless.
Daemons are immune, but there's also Inquisition and Chaos Space Marines who have plenty of non-fearless, non-atsknf models. So, basically, everyone but loyalist Marines, 'Nids and Daemons.
But how many armies out of Sisters, CSM, Tau, Necrons, Guard, Eldar, DEldar and Orks actually want to be in combat?
But how many armies out of Sisters, CSM, Tau, Necrons, Guard, Eldar, DEldar and Orks actually want to be in combat?
Riptides is a pretty prominent one. There are definitely of handful of notable others.
Also, just because something doesn't want to be in combat doesn't mean it does zero damage in combat.
That being said, fear is generally underwhelming. However, I notice most people forget to even roll for it. Use it consistently on the models that have it and you will see it definitely is good for a few less wounds here and there.
That being said, I seriously doubt I would ever get the new MSS, unless it's like the last 10 points in an already pristine list.
Can someone please confirm for me the price's of the scarabs? In previous posts it was mentioned that they are 60 points with the option of taking 6 more bases.
To me wouldn't this suggest that they now come in bases of 4 x each? and remain the same 15 ppm? as the previous max was 10 bases?
Some here have posted that they got a price increase when maybe it's just you have to take 4 now?
Galorian wrote: Take one with the Lychguard, they're looking to be insanely good and adding PE to the squad would make them even better.
But I want those in a Ghost Ark.
With a Cryptek for 4+++/5++, 'Invisibility' and a Lord for a ResOrb.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
bodazoka wrote: Can someone please confirm for me the price's of the scarabs? In previous posts it was mentioned that they are 60 points with the option of taking 6 more bases.
To me wouldn't this suggest that they now come in bases of 4 x each? and remain the same 15 ppm? as the previous max was 10 bases?
Some here have posted that they got a price increase when maybe it's just you have to take 4 now?
On the Res Orb, the Relic one with the +1 to RP built in is actually pretty nice. I'm interested in seeing how much it cost, both point wise and FOC slot wise, to get a Crytek and a Lord with Res Orb into the same unit.
Point being, though, once your are throwing that one turn Re-Roll onto the 4+ it becomes a pretty salty tool up your sleeve. Say you just NSed a big unit of LG right into their backfield. It will make its points in that kind of situation for sure.
Also, the timing on when you get to choose to use it is pretty nice.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
But I want those in a Ghost Ark.
With a Cryptek for 4+++/5++, 'Invisibility' and a Lord for a ResOrb.
Yeah, that Solar Pulse is pretty frikken nice, as well as the new Chrono.
They both really up the viability of WSLGIMHO. I'm seriously thinking about going with those, now, instead of Sword and Board, although the overall resiliency of the S&B is pretty nuts. T5, 3++, 4/5+ RP, possibly rerollable, possibly invisi for a turn. That a tremendous amount of gak to get through to kill a single model.
changemod wrote: Hmm... Doesn't Jet Pack infantry Destroyer Lords destroy their ability to function as part of a Wraith unit?
Take one with the Lychguard, they're looking to be insanely good and adding PE to the squad would make them even better.
Oh wow, that's right. The change to jet pack does make the D Lord compatible with the Lychguard, as there is no longer a move difference.
He can't JSJ, but as a melee unit, he won't need it. This is actually a pretty nice buff.
But how many armies out of Sisters, CSM, Tau, Necrons, Guard, Eldar, DEldar and Orks actually want to be in combat?
Riptides is a pretty prominent one. There are definitely of handful of notable others.
Riptides want to be in combat? Do you hear yourself?
ShadarLogoth wrote: Also, just because something doesn't want to be in combat doesn't mean it does zero damage in combat.
But that's the thing - people didn't take MSS for fear that a guardsman might cough on them. They took them so that Draigo, Wolf Lords, Dreadknights, Daemon Princes etc. didn't just mop the floor with them.
Riptides want to be in combat? Do you hear yourself?
Why are you being so literal? The point is Ripitides hit hard enough in combat for fear to have an appreciable effect on them. It's really a simple enough concept to understand.
But that's the thing - people didn't take MSS for fear that a guardsman might cough on them. They took them so that Draigo, Wolf Lords, Dreadknights, Daemon Princes etc. didn't just mop the floor with them.
Right. Which is why I said I wouldn't take MSS just for fear.
I Really Hope the Obelisk gets Skyfire via its formation, an the monolith at least anything. Deepstrike scatter protection would be enought to make it pretty awesome tbh.
What do you guys think about the new tomb blades und their loadouts? Gauss Blasters or Particle Weapons?(If they cost roughly the same) Shield vanes (3+ armor) and/or increased cove save?
Riptides want to be in combat? Do you hear yourself?
Why are you being so literal? The point is Ripitides hit hard enough in combat for fear to have an appreciable effect on them. It's really a simple enough concept to understand.
Because the question was which units *want* to be in combat - Riptides most definitely do not. I'd have thought that was a simple concept, but apparently not.
It's not being literal it's being accurate.
Riptides do hit hard in combat, relative to those armies. Now contrast them with a Fear-immune Dreadknight and understand why I'm much more concerned about the latter.
Cool, but the greater context of the conversation was the efficacy of fear and what units it makes an appreciable difference against. Riptides is definitely one of those units. Them not literally wanting to be in combat doesn't really change that.
But a unit like that isn't gonna be stopped by a single Overlord and his MSS, he'd make Dante punch himself in the face (maybe), then the other 30 guys tear him and his unit to pieces.
The only thing MSS could do reliably was prevent MCs from killing the unit carrying the MSS, and the only MCs that could get close enough are Wraithknights and Dreadknights. Of those, Wraithknights are super-easy to deal with, though Dreadknights are a worry, I grant you.
It was an essential insurance policy against pretty much everything. Assault is not dead. Its still one of the best ways of doing things in this game. As long as you're a 12 inch moving, 2+,3++ monster eternal warrior deathstar with nothing but str +8 attacks with prescience, forewarning, etc.
Mindshackle was awesome because it turned the cheesey beater against itself. The better you are, the more you're going to hurt yourself.
MSS at least gave your opponent pause before he charged his world destroying deathstar into your command. Now... well... I hope you've got your one use (I HATE THIS) veil of darkness ready. otherwise kiss your shiny metal ass good bye.
Dr. Delorean wrote: I'm frankly surprised that there are this many Necron players who were still using MSS.
It was a great piece of gear on Phaerons, but yeah not effective most of the time. What I find amusing is the number of players who appear to be having an orgasm that they won't have to deal with it at all. It was pretty useless if you charged them with sufficient force to wipe them out.
I think the Res Orbs, if I'm reading them right, are going to be the anti-assault mechanic now. Assault based armies are going to try to do everything in their power to get the Necron player to blow those Orbs before assaults. Having that re-roll mitigate the damage on the turn the unit gets charged could take a lot of momentum out of the opponent.
I have to say while I personally HATE MSS, I can understand the need for something that can deal with my tooled up characters (kharn, crimson slaughter lord) as a overlord just cannot compete BUT and this is a huge but, it was easily avoided and situational, so possibly the new one might be a tad more useful?
Formosa wrote: I have to say while I personally HATE MSS, I can understand the need for something that can deal with my tooled up characters (kharn, crimson slaughter lord) as a overlord just cannot compete BUT and this is a huge but, it was easily avoided and situational, so possibly the new one might be a tad more useful?
I personally love our new resurrection orbs, coming in at a 55pt discount from last book.
You mean 5pt, right?
No, 55pt. Since taking one on an Overlord would cost 120pts minimum, and now we get an identical benefit from Crypteks (without having to buy any wargear) for 65pts instead.
Sure, you could've taken a res orb on a normal Necron lord, but that's still exactly the same cost as a new-book Cryptek, and the new-book Cryptek has 2 wounds instead of 1.
Noticing the Chronometron only works in the shooting phase makes it of slightly more dubious value on Scytheguard in a Ghost Ark: The bigger worry is living through the assault phase to strike at I2.
Still, reanimation is basically a 4++ anyway. Oh, and if you make the unit 8 Guard plus a Cryptek "Apothecary" you can have a challenge soaking Lord or Overlord. Stick an Orb in your new massed S7 AP2 Armorbane Deathstar for one phase of largely ignoring wounds when you hit the enemy Deathstar.
Mechanics-wise the cryptek is the new resurrection orb.
The new resurrection orb still seems pretty potent for large units with a cryptek attached. A one shot re-rollable 4++ save for the whole unit for a whole turn is nothing to sneeze at. If its a warrior unit and you have a Ghost Ark nearby then you have a unit that will just not ever go down.
One thing to remember about attaching Destroyer Lord to things. Not only does he grant PE, but he also grants fearless, which makes a LG unit he attaches to fearless and that is definitely potent. Still it would be nice now if there was some CC oriented jet pack unit he could attach to, to fully maximize his movement capabilities.
Wondering if the Destroyer Lord can equip the Phase Shifter.
col_impact wrote: One thing to remember about attaching Destroyer Lord to things. Not only does he grant PE, but he also grants fearless, which makes a LG unit he attaches to fearless and that is definitely potent. Still it would be nice now if there was some CC oriented jet pack unit he could attach to, to fully maximize his movement capabilities.
You have that upside down: It was the Wraiths who made the D Lord fearless, not the other way around.
Gauntlet of Conflagrator 30pts- Template, S7 AP2, Assault 1, One Use Only
Is this our new Abyssal Staff? I'm assuming we don't get to keep the old one, and even if we did, that the tactic of attaching it to a unit of Deathmarks would still work.
Still, this item achieves much of the same effect, aside from being more expensive and one-use only. It can be taken on models other than Crypteks and you don't need to specify which unit you're targeting to get 2+ to wound on it.
col_impact wrote: One thing to remember about attaching Destroyer Lord to things. Not only does he grant PE, but he also grants fearless, which makes a LG unit he attaches to fearless and that is definitely potent. Still it would be nice now if there was some CC oriented jet pack unit he could attach to, to fully maximize his movement capabilities.
You have that upside down: It was the Wraiths who made the D Lord fearless, not the other way around.
Yeah, I had that the other way around.
A bargeLord joining a unit does grant fearless and relentless though. Wondering if the bargeLord can join units.
Dr. Delorean wrote: I'm frankly surprised that there are this many Necron players who were still using MSS.
What a stupid statement...
"Wow, Necron players ACTUALLY use an item that gives them a chance in CC?"
Except it doesn't, at least in the vast majority of cases. Most of the time, the Overlord will deny one model from hitting him or his unit, then the rest of the enemy unit rolls over the Overlord because Necrons are not good in CC.
The only time MSS gave Necrons a chance was when a single MC charged the unit carrying the MSS, which was a pretty rare occurrence if the enemy player knew there was a MSS in the unit.
MSS effectively gave Necron players a 50% chance to not immediately lose a cc fight. Since MSS got removed, you're now back to only using dedicated cc units or removing cc altogether again.
col_impact wrote: One thing to remember about attaching Destroyer Lord to things. Not only does he grant PE, but he also grants fearless, which makes a LG unit he attaches to fearless and that is definitely potent. Still it would be nice now if there was some CC oriented jet pack unit he could attach to, to fully maximize his movement capabilities.
You have that upside down: It was the Wraiths who made the D Lord fearless, not the other way around.
Yeah, I had that the other way around.
A bargeLord joining a unit does grant fearless and relentless though. Wondering if the bargeLord can join units.
No vehicle character currently keeps IC or has any rules associated with it joining units, so I wouldn't count on it.
Sigvatr wrote: MSS effectively gave Necron players a 50% chance to not immediately lose a cc fight. Since MSS got removed, you're now back to only using dedicated cc units or removing cc altogether again.
Clearly we have different experiences with Necrons and CC, because at least in my experience Necrons folded as soon as anything remotely CC-oriented turned their way, MSS or not.
col_impact wrote: One thing to remember about attaching Destroyer Lord to things. Not only does he grant PE, but he also grants fearless, which makes a LG unit he attaches to fearless and that is definitely potent. Still it would be nice now if there was some CC oriented jet pack unit he could attach to, to fully maximize his movement capabilities.
You have that upside down: It was the Wraiths who made the D Lord fearless, not the other way around.
Yeah, I had that the other way around.
A bargeLord joining a unit does grant fearless and relentless though. Wondering if the bargeLord can join units.
Can vehicles join units? -_-
Even, assuming, it got an exemption to allow it to join infantry units (and we have seen nothing that would indicate as such), how would it grant relentless without slow and purposeful? I guess if it rolls the warlord trait for it...
I disagree, they would still lose the fight.
It made sure that they had a 50% chance of losing a fight while doing a lot of damage in return and made sure that their Lord had a bigger chance of survival.
Sigvatr wrote: MSS effectively gave Necron players a 50% chance to not immediately lose a cc fight. Since MSS got removed, you're now back to only using dedicated cc units or removing cc altogether again.
the bargeLord still seems pretty good provided he does not go against something that can ID him.
Also, there might be a C'tan build that can hold up against dreadknights, wraithknights, and the like.
Except it doesn't, at least in the vast majority of cases. Most of the time, the Overlord will deny one model from hitting him or his unit, then the rest of the enemy unit rolls over the Overlord because Necrons are not good in CC.
MSS was often on DLords attached to Wraith units. I'm not sure I'd consider that unit bad at CC.
Sigvatr wrote: MSS effectively gave Necron players a 50% chance to not immediately lose a cc fight. Since MSS got removed, you're now back to only using dedicated cc units or removing cc altogether again.
Clearly we have different experiences with Necrons and CC, because at least in my experience Necrons folded as soon as anything remotely CC-oriented turned their way, MSS or not.
I've won many a combat against dedicated CC units with 20 Warriors and an Olord.
Back when I still played 6th, I usually ran it with 2 GA and Zahndrekh, making it a huge blob. Giving them Furious Charge for the lulz and actually even winning a melee.
col_impact wrote: One thing to remember about attaching Destroyer Lord to things. Not only does he grant PE, but he also grants fearless, which makes a LG unit he attaches to fearless and that is definitely potent. Still it would be nice now if there was some CC oriented jet pack unit he could attach to, to fully maximize his movement capabilities.
You have that upside down: It was the Wraiths who made the D Lord fearless, not the other way around.
Yeah, I had that the other way around.
A bargeLord joining a unit does grant fearless and relentless though. Wondering if the bargeLord can join units.
Can vehicles join units? -_-
Even, assuming, it got an exemption to allow it to join infantry units (and we have seen nothing that would indicate as such), how would it grant relentless without slow and purposeful? I guess if it rolls the warlord trait for it...
Mhm, MSS only really worked wonders against MCs or cheap unit that transported one cc character. Sure, the new MSS sounds awful, but it never was something that made overlord into cc monsters, it worked as a decent deterrent for charging units with them with just about anything or making sure that good cc units just did not effortlessly sweep necron units. However, us getting decent cc units ourselves seem like a good replacement. And one that at the same time is less frustrating to play against.
On a slightly related note - Veil of Darkness gives the Cryptek deep strike, as well as allowing the wielder + his unit to deep strike again at some point in the game.
So, take a unit of 20 Flayed Ones and a Cryptek with the Veil and the Solar Staff. Deep strike them somewhere close to the enemy and use the staff for shooting defense. Run amok behind enemy lines, then when you need to maneuver, deep strike again for more shenanigans!
Deep striking 21 models without any way to mitigate mishaps? Crazy! Crazy -like a fox-!
So without MSS, Necrons have what in the way of defense against CC monsters?
Is it really just going to be a case of "All you can do is avoid getting into CC with them or die" now?
As far as other CC prospects go,
- Previously D.Lord+Wraiths were a staple. Doesn't look to be a thing this time around.
- Wraiths by themselves are okay, I guess (do they still have rending?).
- Scarabs are... mildly threatening? (not really)
- Flayed Ones got everything we were hoping for apart from becoming troops.
- Lychguard in a Ghost Ark appear to be the new cool thing.
- Praetorians might be interesting, too.
- Nightbringer... if we can figure out some way to get some use out of him, perhaps.
- Spyders... we don't actually know that much about Spyders yet.
- BargeLord assumedly will be seeing a lot of action (unless there's something we're missing about him).
- Lords/Overlords, well, if you attach them to Lychguard squads they'll be able to do something useful, but if you run into a dedicated CC unit/HQ, without anything to mitigate the disadvantages now, what chance do they actually stand?
For the most part, it looks like Necrons will remain a shooty army. At least for me, anyway.
skoffs wrote: So without MSS, Necrons have what in the way of defense against CC monsters?
Is it really just going to be a case of "All you can do is avoid getting into CC with them or die" now?
As far as other CC prospects go,
- Previously D.Lord+Wraiths were a staple. Doesn't look to be a thing this time around.
- Wraiths by themselves are okay, I guess (do they still have rending?).
- Scarabs are... mildly threatening? (not really)
- Flayed Ones got everything we were hoping for apart from becoming troops.
- Lychguard in a Ghost Ark appear to be the new cool thing.
- Praetorians might be interesting, too.
- Nightbringer... if we can figure out some way to get some use out of him, perhaps.
- Spyders... we don't actually know that much about Spyders yet.
- BargeLord assumedly will be seeing a lot of action (unless there's something we're missing about him).
- Lords/Overlords, well, if you attach them to Lychguard squads they'll be able to do something useful, but if you run into a dedicated CC unit/HQ, without anything to mitigate the disadvantages now, what chance do they actually stand?
For the most part, it looks like Necrons will remain a shooty army. At least for me, anyway.
The changes to destroyers (Jet-Pack-Infantry), lychguard and praetorians combined with the new wargear, maybe even the close combat abilities of the C'tans, take away all fears I would have regarding units wanting to assault me D
And shooting them off before they can come to me should be a priority with necrons anyway - I remember this back from the oldcron days and I think this should be more of a virtue nowadays - it is just lame to have an ability for everything MSS a gone for good man now let us shoot those ******* from the board or chop them with pumped up lychguard with a d-lord attached to them!
I think there is nothing to fear anymore!
Automatically Appended Next Post: The waiting kils me!
vipoid wrote: With regard to the new RP, they'll be a buff to MSU Necron armies - since you can no longer prevent RP by wiping out a squad.
Just something that crossed my mind.
well thought! Destroyers benefit from that again....
Even though I really do not like the idea with tiny warrior units What I noticed is that all the orbs benefit larger groups of warriors wich is very fluffy to me
I hope there is some fearless character in the codex, or a way to get it somehow. Because then a 20 warrior foot blob would be really, REALLY annoying. Cryptek for 4+ RP, ResOrb for a reroll to that when it counts and an Ark or two hanging out in the general vicinity to also help keep things going. Would make for an incredibly hard to shift centerpiece unit.
I'm thinking, that if the Nightbringer is as rumored, he'll be my Wraithknight killer. Drop a random shot and his LD on 3d6 attack. Then if I get in CC, Fleshbane and a 4++. Nice.
The only time I would think MSS was ever a charge deterrent, especially for MCs, would be if they knew they couldn't wipe out the unit on the turn they charged. MSS simply did not work if the unit got charged unless there was absolutely no way to avoid the model that had them. If the opponent couldn't wipe the unit, which was more often than not with a solo MC, then he deserved to get MSS'd.
Since none of that matters anymore, it is tragic that there are some (not all) Necron players who are complaining that they'll have no defense in CC without it. We already have Res Orbs giving us a re-roll on a potential 4+RP. Keep in mind that we no longer lose attacks back like before, and we get to test before breaking. Assuming we're still LD 10, we have to lose combat by 3 to even make me a little worried.
Even without all the synergy shenanigans that we will be able to do, we were no slouch in CC, just slow. With the new RP alone, I'm even less afraid of having my units in CC (provided they've done their job in the shooting phase).
I've still got my own questions that I want answered, but they can wait. Even if all my tricks are gone, I'm still gonna run a few games of unassisted warriors and throw them into combat just to see what they can do now. Necrons sucking in CC was a myth before that has won me several games, and it's going to become even more of a Myth now.
The only thing I'm really concerned about right now is our counter to vehicles, especially Knights. Previously it was the obvious - Haywire sticks on Stormteks. But without those, Knights are tough to crack. Our Armorbane Assault units probably won't fare too well against one (weren't great before simply due to I2 and Stomp), and Gauss is of course not super reliable.
Heavy Destroyers, Doomsday Arks, and Doom Scythes are now our anti-armor options, though even they're not 100% counters to Knights (Especially ALF). As much as people complained about Haywire, I would still have been happy if it was just turned into Assault 2, so we could still have a hard anti-armor option. Now I feel inclined to include my own Knight Errant.
Non-CC Necrons sucked in CC when facing something that was good at CC. YMMV, but for most of us that was very much the case. Often was the time where MSS would help tip the scales and even things out, keeping a squad alive (by removing a few attacks and redirecting them back at their source).
If Non-CC Necrons get assaulted by good CC units now what do we have? Increased survivability? Okay, cool, but apart from not dying so much, is there anything else we can do?
Requizen wrote: Our Armorbane Assault units probably won't fare too well against one (weren't great before simply due to I2 and Stomp), and Gauss is of course not super reliable.
Sure about that one? Cheap and with both actual transport options and access to one turn of invisibility, Lychguard can spam a considerable amount of Armourbane. Potentially even titan slaying levels.
Requizen wrote: Our Armorbane Assault units probably won't fare too well against one (weren't great before simply due to I2 and Stomp), and Gauss is of course not super reliable.
Sure about that one? Cheap and with both actual transport options and access to one turn of invisibility, Lychguard can spam a considerable amount of Armourbane. Potentially even titan slaying levels.
First, we don't know if the regular Warscythe still grants Armorbane. I think it's a decent chance that they do, but with the change to AP2 and the fact that we have 2 Artifact Warscythes, the basic ones may have changed considerably.
Second, Solar Pulse is not Invisibility. It is for shooting, but it does nothing for Assault. This alone means that a handful of them will die before they can attack, especially since if you're taking Warscythes there's no Invuln save and against a Knight's weapon you'd be at only a 6+ Reanimation.
Requizen wrote: Our Armorbane Assault units probably won't fare too well against one (weren't great before simply due to I2 and Stomp), and Gauss is of course not super reliable.
Sure about that one? Cheap and with both actual transport options and access to one turn of invisibility, Lychguard can spam a considerable amount of Armourbane. Potentially even titan slaying levels.
First, we don't know if the regular Warscythe still grants Armorbane. I think it's a decent chance that they do, but with the change to AP2 and the fact that we have 2 Artifact Warscythes, the basic ones may have changed considerably.
Second, Solar Pulse is not Invisibility. It is for shooting, but it does nothing for Assault. This alone means that a handful of them will die before they can attack, especially since if you're taking Warscythes there's no Invuln save and against a Knight's weapon you'd be at only a 6+ Reanimation.
Sure, but it means they can live to get there which is the important thing, and a few 25 point deaths are a petty price to down a superheavy.
Oh, and it would be 5+. If you have a Cryptek in there to solar pulse, your base reanimation is 4+ before instant death modification.
on a side note
Apocalypse, THE SUCK, no more C-Tan ( I don't see them nerfing those Gargantuan Deamons...), vault is a joke now and Pylon is unplayable,
skoffs wrote: Non-CC Necrons sucked in CC when facing something that was good at CC. YMMV, but for most of us that was very much the case. Often was the time where MSS would help tip the scales and even things out, keeping a squad alive (by removing a few attacks and redirecting them back at their source).
If Non-CC Necrons get assaulted by good CC units now what do we have? Increased survivability? Okay, cool, but apart from not dying so much, is there anything else we can do?
How is this a unique problem to Necrons? I don't see Eldar, IG/AM, or Tau suddenly having some way to overpower dedicated CC units with their basic troops? Necrons will now have multiple good, relatively cheap, and insanely durable CC units at their disposal. Making their basic rank and file troops also potent at CC would be tipping the balance to much. Right tools for the job and all that.
Basic, non-CC infantry should never hope to be more than a speedbump to a dedicated assault unit. Basic non-CC infantry should strive to tie up the dedicated CC unit as long as possible to allow your own CC units to get into the fray, nothing more, and in that, new Crons excel because with the new RP, they will suffer far fewer wounds and be less likely to break.
Requizen wrote: Our Armorbane Assault units probably won't fare too well against one (weren't great before simply due to I2 and Stomp), and Gauss is of course not super reliable.
Sure about that one? Cheap and with both actual transport options and access to one turn of invisibility, Lychguard can spam a considerable amount of Armourbane. Potentially even titan slaying levels.
First, we don't know if the regular Warscythe still grants Armorbane. I think it's a decent chance that they do, but with the change to AP2 and the fact that we have 2 Artifact Warscythes, the basic ones may have changed considerably.
Second, Solar Pulse is not Invisibility. It is for shooting, but it does nothing for Assault. This alone means that a handful of them will die before they can attack, especially since if you're taking Warscythes there's no Invuln save and against a Knight's weapon you'd be at only a 6+ Reanimation.
Sure, but it means they can live to get there which is the important thing, and a few 25 point deaths are a petty price to down a superheavy.
Oh, and it would be 5+. If you have a Cryptek in there to solar pulse, your base reanimation is 4+ before instant death modification.
Ah, I had forgotten. That is nice, and might be worth bringing a Res Orb if you're going to be using that squad in that manner. 9 Warscythe Lychguard + Cryptek with Solar Staff and Res Orb in a Ghost Ark is a scary assault squad that can possibly take on Knights. Maybe not the best answer to them in the game, but from what I see it might be the best option we have, unless you're spamming craptons of Gauss or Heavy Destroyers.
Valek wrote: tbh, i am really concerned, changes are fine and fun, but the army is completely unplayable tournament wise as the rumours go now.
on a side note
Apocalypse, THE SUCK, no more C-Tan ( I don't see them nerfing those Gargantuan Deamons...), vault is a joke now and Pylon is unplayable,
I think that's a little pessimistic. Knights, as I said, I think will be very difficult. But Wave Serpents have always been hard, and now we actually have a decent Ignores Cover unit that can help with that. Getting Tomb Blades to RA of Serpents could do some decent damage.
Daemons I don't know why is an autoloss. Because of Summoning? I guess we don't particularly have a lot of AoE anti-horde to deal with that, sure, but that doesn't mean it's an auto loss.
The pylon is very playable: deepstrike him and always be the first to hit 3 D shots.
Otherwise: immortals are cheaper arent they 17 Points that is a little difference.
Heavy destroyers cost 10 points less, have one more wound, and better RP.
But how to kill a Knight... you still got night scythes. Maybe Lychguard with warscythes - very cheap.
Warrior blobs with chronometron can survive their shooting!
Scarabs can now hurt them!!!
Henker-Kind wrote: The pylon is very playable: deepstrike him and always be the first to hit 3 D shots.
Otherwise: immortals are cheaper arent they 17 Points that is a little difference.
Heavy destroyers cost 10 points less, have one more wound, and better RP.
But how to kill a Knight... you still got night scythes. Maybe Lychguard with warscythes - very cheap.
Warrior blobs with chronometron can survive their shooting!
Scarabs can now hurt them!!!
Henker-Kind wrote: The pylon is very playable: deepstrike him and always be the first to hit 3 D shots.
Otherwise: immortals are cheaper arent they 17 Points that is a little difference.
Heavy destroyers cost 10 points less, have one more wound, and better RP.
But how to kill a Knight... you still got night scythes. Maybe Lychguard with warscythes - very cheap.
Warrior blobs with chronometron can survive their shooting!
Scarabs can now hurt them!!!
...
Immortals were 17 pts in the last book too.
I wanted to erase that from the post because I was very unsure
Adaptive Tacticcs: May select a different Warlord Trait for him (no D6 roll needed) at start of each friendly turn after the first. May also select traits from the BRB. He cannot choose the same trait more than once per game.
Counter Tactics: When within 24" of enemy units with the following special rules: Counter attack, furious charge, hit & run, split fire, stealth, tank hunters - then Zahndrekh and his unit have the same special rules.
Vargard Obyron (120 points)
WS6 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.2+
Warscythe
IC, RP
Vargard's Duty: Auto passes Init. test for glorious intervention
Cleaving Counterblow: When in a challenge, gains a bonus attack for each attack made by enemy character that fails to hit. Attacks are made at Init 1 step and does not grant additional pile in move
Illuminor Szeras (110 points)
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I2 A4 Ld10 Sv3+
Fear, IC, RP, Immortal Hubris Trait
Eldritch Lance: 36", S8 AP2, Assault 1, Lance
Mechanical Augmentation: At start of game, before deployment, choose one unit of warriors or immortals. Nominated unit receives an upgrade for remainder of game. Roll D6-
1-2: +1 Toughness
3-4: BS set to 5
5-6: Strength set to 5
Lord of Technomancy: This model and all friendly models with RP within 6" get +1 to RP rolls
Well yes, Scarabs aren't entirely useless on a Knight...
Assume you charge 7 into it. That's a quick estimate at base 9 buffed to 12 then gunned back down assuming cover saves and no Thunderfire cannon.
Now, say the Knight hits three times. That's those three bases gone, meaning 20 attacks.
So... About two glances, then they get Stomped out.
...
More optimistically, assume you manage to charge a full 12 in and the Knight only succeeds on two hits, or rolls a 1 on the D table for one of it's three hits.
That would be 50 attacks and therefore about 4 glances.
And then they get stomped out or at least down to trivial size.
Yeah, they're a vehicle solution but not really a Knight solution.
Knights - yeah probably. That's what Knights do to every army and the problem is Knights, not other armies.
Wave Serpents/Wraithknights - no way man, this is going to be as close to an auto win as you can get. Their guns are harmless to Necrons and every thing Necrons have can kill them. WKs are easily bogged down with trash that's considerably cheaper.
Marines - yep, everyone loses to bikes and drop pods, not a Necron problem.
Daemons - I don't understand your sentiment. There's nothing especially deadly in Daemons at all.
Flying Tyranids - they aren't dangerous to Necrons on the ground, and in the air they're at best, even with Nightscythes.
Now I have to get more Lychguard boxes to put Dispersion Shields on everything. I think I'll just magnetize it to arms/backs of characters I've already put together, no reason to make new ones.
Phase Shifter, Staff of Tomorrow: S:User, AP2, Melee, Chronoblade (re-roll to hit rolls in assault)
Master Chronomancer: Model and all models in same unti get +1 to RP rolls, and re-roll armour saves of 1
The Stars are Right: Roll D6 at start of each friendly turn. If result is less than current turn number, Orikan uses his Empowered profile for rest of game. If he suffers a wound before becoming empowered, he has 3 wounds instead of 4 when empowered.
(For Anrakyr, see earlier in the thread)
Trazyn the Infinite (130 points)
WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+
Empathic Obliteration: S+2, AP4, Melee, Concussive, Psionic Shockwave: if a character is slain in a challenge by this weapon, all models within 6" of the character with the same faction (friend or foe) suffers a S4, AP- hit.
IC, RP, Enduring Will Trait
Surrogate Hosts: If Trazyn is removed as a casualty, roll a D6. On a 2+, choose another friendly, non unique Cron infantry character to be removed instead. Trazyn takes its place with D3 wounds remaining. If it was locked in assault, Teazyn is as well. If there are no available targets or a 1 is rolled, Trazyn is removed as a casualty.
Imotekh the Stormlord (190 points, LORD OF WAR)
WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.2+
Gauntlet of Fire, Phase Shifter, Staff of the Destroyer: 18", S6 AP2, Assault 3
IC, RP, It will not die, Hyperlogical Strategist trait
Lord of the Swarm: Night fighting is always in effect during first game turn. Once per game, at start of friendly shooting phase, roll a D6 for each enemy unit within 48" of Imootekh. On a 5+, that unit suffers D6 Strength 6 AP- hits, randomly allocated.
Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs: Flayed Ones can re-roll scatter dice when deep striking
Orikan straight buffed, though the Writhing Worldscape cheese is gone. Oh well, pretty good overall.
TRAYZN HUGE BUFF. Can come back onto ANY Necron Infantry with D3 wounds is MASSIVE. Empathic Obliterator is huge too, now it is just anything with the same FACTION. Damn.
Imotkeh's Staff of the Destroyer is MUCH better now (the one use thing was butts before and you know it), has IWND base, Lord of the Storm is actually buffed quite a frelling bit, and Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs + new Flayed Ones is quite good!
Special Characters in this edition are looking great in my opinion! Other than Anrakyr and Obyron, I can find a use for all of them!
D Lords - Still WS 4 BS 4 unlike the the Overlords, Jet pack infinity & come with a Staff of Light for 10 points less.
Boo
Edit - But it seems they can get a ++3 so not all is lost apart from his place with the Wraiths. Maybe having him babysit a big brick of Warrior to give them PE.
TRAYZN HUGE BUFF. Can come back onto ANY Necron Infantry with D3 wounds is MASSIVE. Empathic Obliterator is huge too, now it is just anything with the same FACTION. Damn.
character.
Trollzian will be taking place of your nearest ........ wait what characters do necrons even have besides the HQ slot?
I kinda liked him for being able to remove whole units of conscripts though
Nakor The BlueRider wrote: D Lords got nerfed into the bin. Still WS 4 BS 4 unlike the the Overlords, Jet pack infinity & come with a Staff of Light for 10 points less.
Boo
Not at all! You can give them a chronometron and a phase shifter - heck give him a dispersion shield 3++ I guess...and I think relics too! Have you read thate nightbringer weapon?
Melcavuk wrote:Trayzn can only come back on "friendly, non-unique, necron infantry character". Which is Ovelords, Crypteks and Lords right? Not a huge buff.
TRAYZN HUGE BUFF. Can come back onto ANY Necron Infantry with D3 wounds is MASSIVE. Empathic Obliterator is huge too, now it is just anything with the same FACTION. Damn.
character.
Trollzian will be taking place of your nearest ........ wait what characters do necrons even have besides the HQ slot?
I kinda liked him for being able to remove whole units of conscripts though
Ah gak, got excited and missed that. Yeah, less good then. Dammit.
Melcavuk wrote:Trayzn can only come back on "friendly, non-unique, necron infantry character". Which is Ovelords, Crypteks and Lords right? Not a huge buff.
TRAYZN HUGE BUFF. Can come back onto ANY Necron Infantry with D3 wounds is MASSIVE. Empathic Obliterator is huge too, now it is just anything with the same FACTION. Damn.
character.
Trollzian will be taking place of your nearest ........ wait what characters do necrons even have besides the HQ slot?
I kinda liked him for being able to remove whole units of conscripts though
Ah gak, got excited and missed that. Yeah, less good then. Dammit.
more like completely nerfed. his empathic obliterator when a character is slain in a challenge. so you've gotta actually survive the challenge first, then get your 6" bubble of death. meh.
Nakor The BlueRider wrote: D Lords got nerfed into the bin. Still WS 4 BS 4 unlike the the Overlords, Jet pack infinity & come with a Staff of Light for 10 points less.
Boo
Not at all! You can give them a chronometron and a phase shifter - heck give him a dispersion shield 3++ I guess...and I think relics too! Have you read thate nightbringer weapon?
Ha yeah the nerd rage blinded me to that fact. So its is possible to give a +2/++3 for how many points we shall have to wait. The lost of the movement is huge tho, imho & it would of been nice for it to see the same stat increase.
Maybe we shall see that a D.lord with Lychguards jumping out of the Ghost Arc is the new hotness.
col_impact wrote: So the bargeLord cannot join units since IC is not on the profile.
But . . . it looks like you can buy the bargeLord a Dispersion shield and the chariot model (rider and chariot) gets a 3++.
lol and the shenanigans begin again. not that i'm complaining
i'm more interested in how to get the nebuloscope to work with other weapons since it is a piece of technoarcana, and the unit descriptions specifically say OLs, crypteks etc may take items from technoarcana.
fabricator claw arrays are also technoarcana. self repairing command barges anyone?
I don't see anything here saying that Crypteks and Lords are multiple per slot or don't use a slot. So outside of formations, we're stuck with an Overlord and a single Cryptek. Sigh.
docdoom77 wrote: I don't see anything here saying that Crypteks and Lords are multiple per slot or don't use a slot. So outside of formations, we're stuck with an Overlord and a single Cryptek. Sigh.
They REALLLY wanna sell formations. even by force.
Keep in mind that we haven't seen the actual lists for wargear, just stuff someone in the codex has. I'm pretty damn sure that dispersion shields are still available only to lychguards, not to characters.
Illuminor Seraz is amazing IMO, same with Orikan AND youcan field them in the royal court formation. Also notice these guys all have IC including normal crypteks meaning all you do is purchase royal court formations, grab 0-5 of each character type then join them to other units. So whoever was upset over having all them crypteks coverted, thankfully you can still use them! Always glad to see people NOT get screwed over.
Also I'd like to note that it appears that there is nothing stopping a C'tan from shooting two powers a turn off that table. Even if they can't I fully expect to see at least one C'tan in most armies. The tranny c'tan is easily on par with a wraith knight.
12" move ignoring terrain. s8 t7 but with a 4++ These things are your answer to MC's and CC units.
Nakor The BlueRider wrote: D Lords got nerfed into the bin. Still WS 4 BS 4 unlike the the Overlords, Jet pack infinity & come with a Staff of Light for 10 points less.
Boo
Not at all! You can give them a chronometron and a phase shifter - heck give him a dispersion shield 3++ I guess...and I think relics too! Have you read thate nightbringer weapon?
Ha yeah the nerd rage blinded me to that fact. So its is possible to give a +2/++3 for how many points we shall have to wait. The lost of the movement is huge tho, imho & it would of been nice for it to see the same stat increase.
Maybe we shall see that a D.lord with Lychguards jumping out of the Ghost Arc is the new hotness.
and his jet pack infantry isn't that bad if we give him some shooty relics
MLKTH wrote: Keep in mind that we haven't seen the actual lists for wargear, just stuff someone in the codex has. I'm pretty damn sure that dispersion shields are still available only to lychguards, not to characters.
Nope. DShields are listed under Technoarcana, which all O Lords, D Lords and regular Lords can take.
Red Corsair wrote: Illuminor Seraz is amazing IMO, same with Orikan AND youcan field them in the royal court formation. Also notice these guys all have IC including normal crypteks meaning all you do is purchase royal court formations, grab 0-5 of each character type then join them to other units. So whoever was upset over having all them crypteks coverted, thankfully you can still use them! Always glad to see people NOT get screwed over.
Also I'd like to note that it appears that there is nothing stopping a C'tan from shooting two powers a turn off that table. Even if they can't I fully expect to see at least one C'tan in most armies. The tranny c'tan is easily on par with a wraith knight.
12" move ignoring terrain. s8 t7 but with a 4++ These things are your answer to MC's and CC units.
I think the new book is overall win!
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE TO YOU MAN THAT BOOK IS AWESOME! I was never so positive about a release or book of GW before!
MLKTH wrote: Keep in mind that we haven't seen the actual lists for wargear, just stuff someone in the codex has. I'm pretty damn sure that dispersion shields are still available only to lychguards, not to characters.
hmm. from the pics of the codex pages...
"Overlord may take items from the Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons, Technoarcana and/or Artefacts of the Aeons lists."
Dispersion shields are listed as technoarcana. RAW you should be able to take a dispersion shield on him since it's on the Technoarcana list no?
He doesn't have super-scoring, he doesn't have anything like the old MSS, his weapon is crap and it's effect is somehow even more useless than before (if you can believe that). What's the point of taking him?
Moreover, if he dies, why would you want him back? You're sacrificing a useful character to revive a crap one.
MLKTH wrote: Keep in mind that we haven't seen the actual lists for wargear, just stuff someone in the codex has. I'm pretty damn sure that dispersion shields are still available only to lychguards, not to characters.
Nope. DShields are listed under Technoarcana, which all O Lords, D Lords and regular Lords can take.
Yes, based on current spoiled info, but we could be missing a listing with an asterix that says, may not be taken by a CCB or something to that effect. Need the full codex to be certain.
Really happy that Orikhan and Szeras stayed in Codex and actually got buffed
Illuminor with his augmentation was one of my favourite named chars. Ran him along 20x Warrior blobs.
Now he will no longer need 65pts orb lord there Even Better - you put Orikhan with those, and keep Szeras in the back with his lance that is now LANCE
Shame for Trollzyn who got quite nerfed and is now situational at best.
Anarkyr still looks good, minus ability to ride the Barge but since FAQ'd he was unable to use his power from the chariot anyway.
Zahndrekh and Obyron got nice point reduction but Obyron is now shadow of former self. Cleaving in duel. Pfff....
MLKTH wrote: Keep in mind that we haven't seen the actual lists for wargear, just stuff someone in the codex has. I'm pretty damn sure that dispersion shields are still available only to lychguards, not to characters.
Nope. DShields are listed under Technoarcana, which all O Lords, D Lords and regular Lords can take.
But not the Technoarcana wargear prices lists, which may well not list it at all leaving it only under Lychguard.
The confusing thing, mind you, is that it says no two weapon bonus. What Necron model has a second CCW besides one of the Praetorian variants?
Nakor The BlueRider wrote: D Lords got nerfed into the bin. Still WS 4 BS 4 unlike the the Overlords, Jet pack infinity & come with a Staff of Light for 10 points less.
Boo
Not at all! You can give them a chronometron and a phase shifter - heck give him a dispersion shield 3++ I guess...and I think relics too! Have you read thate nightbringer weapon?
Ha yeah the nerd rage blinded me to that fact. So its is possible to give a +2/++3 for how many points we shall have to wait. The lost of the movement is huge tho, imho & it would of been nice for it to see the same stat increase.
Maybe we shall see that a D.lord with Lychguards jumping out of the Ghost Arc is the new hotness.
Can you put Jet Pack into Transports? I know Jump can't.
MLKTH wrote: Keep in mind that we haven't seen the actual lists for wargear, just stuff someone in the codex has. I'm pretty damn sure that dispersion shields are still available only to lychguards, not to characters.
Nope. DShields are listed under Technoarcana, which all O Lords, D Lords and regular Lords can take.
Yes, based on current spoiled info, but we could be missing a listing with an asterix that says, may not be taken by a CCB or something to that effect. Need the full codex to be certain.
Yeah we have the wargear information but not the table that lists what can and can't take it. If Characters can take Dispersion Shields, it'll be very interesting, though I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't.
He doesn't have super-scoring, he doesn't have anything like the old MSS, his weapon is crap and it's effect is somehow even more useless than before (if you can believe that). What's the point of taking him?
Moreover, if he dies, why would you want him back? You're sacrificing a useful character to revive a crap one.
His model is ugly (imo), his rules are boring, get the sculpt out of my way
Adaptive Tacticcs: May select a different Warlord Trait for him (no D6 roll needed) at start of each friendly turn after the first. May also select traits from the BRB. He cannot choose the same trait more than once per game.
Counter Tactics: When within 24" of enemy units with the following special rules: Counter attack, furious charge, hit & run, split fire, stealth, tank hunters - then Zahndrekh and his unit have the same special rules.
Vargard Obyron (120 points)
WS6 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.2+
Warscythe
IC, RP
Vargard's Duty: Auto passes Init. test for glorious intervention
Cleaving Counterblow: When in a challenge, gains a bonus attack for each attack made by enemy character that fails to hit. Attacks are made at Init 1 step and does not grant additional pile in move
Illuminor Szeras (110 points)
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I2 A4 Ld10 Sv3+
Fear, IC, RP, Immortal Hubris Trait
Eldritch Lance: 36", S8 AP2, Assault 1, Lance
Mechanical Augmentation: At start of game, before deployment, choose one unit of warriors or immortals. Nominated unit receives an upgrade for remainder of game. Roll D6-
1-2: +1 Toughness
3-4: BS set to 5
5-6: Strength set to 5
Lord of Technomancy: This model and all friendly models with RP within 6" get +1 to RP rolls
Phase Shifter, Staff of Tomorrow: S:User, AP2, Melee, Chronoblade (re-roll to hit rolls in assault)
Master Chronomancer: Model and all models in same unti get +1 to RP rolls, and re-roll armour saves of 1
The Stars are Right: Roll D6 at start of each friendly turn. If result is less than current turn number, Orikan uses his Empowered profile for rest of game. If he suffers a wound before becoming empowered, he has 3 wounds instead of 4 when empowered.
(For Anrakyr, see earlier in the thread)
Trazyn the Infinite (130 points)
WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+
Empathic Obliteration: S+2, AP4, Melee, Concussive, Psionic Shockwave: if a character is slain in a challenge by this weapon, all models within 6" of the character with the same faction (friend or foe) suffers a S4, AP- hit.
IC, RP, Enduring Will Trait
Surrogate Hosts: If Trazyn is removed as a casualty, roll a D6. On a 2+, choose another friendly, non unique Cron infantry character to be removed instead. Trazyn takes its place with D3 wounds remaining. If it was locked in assault, Teazyn is as well. If there are no available targets or a 1 is rolled, Trazyn is removed as a casualty.
Imotekh the Stormlord (190 points, LORD OF WAR)
WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.2+
Gauntlet of Fire, Phase Shifter, Staff of the Destroyer: 18", S6 AP2, Assault 3
IC, RP, It will not die, Hyperlogical Strategist trait
Lord of the Swarm: Night fighting is always in effect during first game turn. Once per game, at start of friendly shooting phase, roll a D6 for each enemy unit within 48" of Imootekh. On a 5+, that unit suffers D6 Strength 6 AP- hits, randomly allocated.
Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs: Flayed Ones can re-roll scatter dice when deep striking
It does not say they [C'Tan] are limited to using it once per shooting phase.
The Reclamation Legion allows for 1 Overlord. In addition, you can take ONE Royal Court Formation per Reclamation Legion, which lets you take: 1 Overlord (or Imotekh), 1-3 Lords, 1-3 Crypteks.
1) For those asking about how many Lords, Crypteks, etc. you can take:
The Reclamation Legion formation allows for 1 Overlord. In addition, you can take ONE Royal Court Formation per Reclamation Legion, which lets you take: 1 Overlord (or Imotekh), 1-3 Lords, 1-3 Crypteks.
2) Regarding the Destroyer Lord: 110 points, WS4 BS4 S5 T6 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+, Staff of Light, IC, RP, Preferred Enemy, and he can take the same upgrades regular Cron lords can.
3) I made a serious mistake with Quantum Shielding, many apologies. The vehicle counts as AV13 on the Front and Side, *not all around* as I claimed earlier.
4) There are significant differences between the three C'Tan Shards. What they have in common are Eternal Warrior, the powers of the C'Tan shooting, Necrodermis (4+ invuln and inflict a S4 AP1 hit for everyone within D6" when it dies) Fearless, and immunity to natural law (treat all terrain as open ground). Other than that:
Nightbringer (240 points, Elite)
WS6 BS4 S7 T7 W4 I4 A4 Ld10. Sv4+
Fleshbane, Gaze of Death: In addition to shooting Powers of the C'tan, can target one non-vehicle enemy within 12" and in LOS. Unit takes wounds of 3D6 - Ld, resolved at AP2 and Ignores Cover. Nightbringer restores one wound if a wound is inflicted.
Deceiver (240 points, Elite)
(Stats same as Nightbringer, but -1 WS and +1 BS)
Hit & Run, Dread (enemy within 12" has -2 Ld.), Grand Illusion: After deployment and scout moves, remove Deceiver and up to D3 friendly units with 12" of it. Either immediately redploy them, or place them in reserve.
Transcendent C'Tan (250 points, Heavy Support)
(Stats same as Nightbringer, but -1 WS, +1 BS, +1 Strength, +1 wound)
Deep Strike, Writhing Worldscape: All enemy units within 6" treat open ground as difficult terrain
5) Caoptek Wraiths have no Sempiternal Weave, whatever that is :p, but they still have their 3+ invuln if that's what you're asking
Triarch Praetorians are still jump infantry. However, Wraiths are Beasts.
1. What has happened to deathmarks?
2. What are the 'ranged weapons' and 'melee weapons' that the overlord can take?
3. What has happened to the annihilation barge?
4. What has happened to the Spyder?
5. Do we have any skyfire/melta/haywire/lance?
1. Deathmarks are 18 points each, Elite infantry. Stats same as before. Deep strike and RP. They also have:
Hunters from Hyperspace: During the turn they arrive from Deep Strike, their shooting attacks wound on a 2+ regardless of toughness.
Ethereal Interception: If they are in Deep Strike Reserve when an enemy unit arrives using Deep Strike, they can immediately also arrive using the rules for Deep Strike, and it may immediately fire at any enemy unit that emerged from reserves that turn. If it does so, it cannot fire during your shooting phase next turn.
2. Ranged: Gauntlet of Fire, Tachyon Arrow
Melee: Hyperphase sword, Voidblade, Warscythe
3 & 4. Posted about the barge earlier in the thread, as with the Spyder. Not too different.
5. Heat Ray is Melta. Don't see Skyfire, lance, or melta.
MLKTH wrote: Keep in mind that we haven't seen the actual lists for wargear, just stuff someone in the codex has. I'm pretty damn sure that dispersion shields are still available only to lychguards, not to characters.
Nope. DShields are listed under Technoarcana, which all O Lords, D Lords and regular Lords can take.
Ethereal Interception: If they are in Deep Strike Reserve when an enemy unit arrives using Deep Strike, they can immediately also arrive using the rules for Deep Strike, and it may immediately fire at any enemy unit that emerged from reserves that turn. If it does so, it cannot fire during your shooting phase next turn.
a poor man's interceptor. still, clears up the YMDC argument though
He doesn't have super-scoring, he doesn't have anything like the old MSS, his weapon is crap and it's effect is somehow even more useless than before (if you can believe that). What's the point of taking him?
Moreover, if he dies, why would you want him back? You're sacrificing a useful character to revive a crap one.
His model is ugly (imo), his rules are boring, get the sculpt out of my way
He was my favourite of the Necron characters. I'd really hoped that he'd be worth using.
Oooh, the hilarity!
"4++, does not confer to the chariot"
"3++.."
So unless the CCB is not allowed to take this item, I'm going to laugh hard.
At the moment everything seems to point at C'tans using two powers per turn.
So I have to get back on my early remark that they were crap, this would be quite awesome.
Kangodo wrote: Oooh, the hilarity!
"4++, does not confer to the chariot"
"3++.."
So unless the CCB is not allowed to take this item, I'm going to laugh hard.
At the moment everything seems to point at C'tans using two powers per turn.
So I have to get back on my early remark that they were crap, this would be quite awesome.
Yeah im kinda sad they didnt just fething fix that silly rules sillyness already.
2) Yeah cant wait to see them wreck some face. i always loved shards (besides tranny) will be happy to seem them on the battlefield.
Herr Dexter wrote: Really happy that Orikhan and Szeras stayed in Codex and actually got buffed
Illuminor with his augmentation was one of my favourite named chars. Ran him along 20x Warrior blobs.
Now he will no longer need 65pts orb lord there Even Better - you put Orikhan with those, and keep Szeras in the back with his lance that is now LANCE
Shame for Trollzyn who got quite nerfed and is now situational at best.
Anarkyr still looks good, minus ability to ride the Barge but since FAQ'd he was unable to use his power from the chariot anyway.
Zahndrekh and Obyron got nice point reduction but Obyron is now shadow of former self. Cleaving in duel. Pfff....
Calming down from the fanboying, I think characters are about the following:
Szeras: Nifty, but not fantastic. It would be better if you could pick on the table, getting +1S is always a bummer. He's a nice anti-vehicle though.
Orikan: Very cool. Like Crytpek++, but he can't take the Solar Pulse thing so that's a downside. However, he's much better in Assault since his Empowered won't randomly turn off, and the Reroll to Armor Saves is wonderful.
Zahndrekh: Was my favorite character last edition, will still be a good pick now. There are so many good Warlord traits in Strategic, Tactical, and Necron for him that it's not even funny. Counter tactics is a bit more situational now, though. Overall not bad, but losing 3++ and Res Orb hurts too.
Trayzn: After actually reading his rules, yeah not great. Kinda bad
Anrakyr: Much the same as the last book. Which is to say, not great, but situationally very good if you're against a lot of vehicles.
Obyron: Pretty not great. No longer the Assault monster he was before, no more Deep Strike shenanigans, lost a lot of Flavor and gained little to nothing in return.
Imotekh: Yes. I will be using mine. I want to clarify and see if Lord of the Storm goes off in every shooting phase or only during Night Fight, but still. Free Night Fight, buffing newly buffed Flayed Ones, 18" S6 AP2 gun, having set Warlord Trait that is Reserve Manipulation... he's very, VERY good now. For 190 points he's basically a steal, especially if you're not using another LoW in that slot.
So with regards to the Dispersion Shield, Overlords have had some of their gear changed to be ranged weapons. So running a Gauntlet with a HPS or Voidblade might be a thing, but I don't know why you would want to unless both of those weapons have been improved. Or if Warscythes suck now, I guess.
vipoid wrote: I thought one of the leaks mentioned that C'tan were explicitly forbidden from using more than one power per turn?
Didn't see that.
In other news: I like Obyron.
He lost his teleport rule, but it seems as if he can intervene in any challenge and he has 2+ now (he used to have 3+, right?)
OMG OMG:
5) Caoptek Wraiths have no Sempiternal Weave, whatever that is :p, but they still have their 3+ invuln if that's what you're asking
Since destroyer lords became jet pack infantry, do you see any way to give lords or crypteks a jump pack? Kinda lame if praetorians can't have an IC keep up with them =\ for orb/cryptek bonuses.
Ah, nope. Don't see a way. : /
is tesla destructor still assault 4 Fo 7 vp - ?
is there any haywire?
are wraith really T5 save 4++?
do any unit other than warriors have the ghost ark as dedicated transport?
is the Royal court formation a single unit or you can split them?
Tesla Destructor is 24", S7 AP-, Heavy 4
No Haywire that I see
Wraiths are T5 and 3+ Invuln
Nope, only the warriors
Royal Court like any formation consists of all those separate units
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can mve over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths (40 points per model)
Any model may take one of the following:
Whip Coils - 3 pts per model
Particle caster - 5pts per model
Transdimensional beamer - 10pts per model
They really want people to continue to use Wraiths. T5 W2 3++ Ignores Terrain (except for charging), still S6 Rending... dangit the FA slot is STACKED.
vipoid wrote: I thought one of the leaks mentioned that C'tan were explicitly forbidden from using more than one power per turn?
Didn't see that.
In other news: I like Obyron.
He lost his teleport rule, but it seems as if he can intervene in any challenge and he has 2+ now (he used to have 3+, right?)
OMG OMG:
5) Caoptek Wraiths have no Sempiternal Weave, whatever that is :p, but they still have their 3+ invuln if that's what you're asking[/quote
OBY had a 2+ before. He got crapped on this codex. Shame really.
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can mve over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths (40 points per model)
Any model may take one of the following:
Whip Coils - 3 pts per model
Particle caster - 5pts per model
Transdimensional beamer - 10pts per model
They really want people to continue to use Wraiths. T5 W2 3++ Ignores Terrain (except for charging), still S6 Rending... dangit the FA slot is STACKED.
Bah, the hit to hunters from hyperspace is actually pretty rugged. I guess ethereal interception is decent but you specifically have to keep your deathmarks on standby to really take advantage of it.
I suppose you could put a cryptek with a veil and the template weapon that is str7 ap2 with them and fire the cryptek with ethereal interception, that would really destroy every unit that also just used deepstrike (terminators, assault marines, DE with venoms or raiders) because they would be nice and clumped together for your murdering pleasure.
Warmonger2757 wrote: Bah, the hit to hunters from hyperspace is actually pretty rugged. I guess ethereal interception is decent but you specifically have to keep your deathmarks on standby to really take advantage of it.
I suppose you could put a cryptek with a veil and the template weapon that is str7 ap2 with them and fire the cryptek with ethereal interception, that would really destroy every unit that also just used deepstrike (terminators, assault marines, DE with venoms or raiders) because they would be nice and clumped together for your murdering pleasure.
That's a nice use. Of course, then you're paying a lot for a Cryptek (65 points now) + 2 Artifacts just for Deep Strike protection. I guess if you're playing against a lot of Drop Pod marines, but otherwise kind of a waste of points.
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can mve over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths (40 points per model)
Any model may take one of the following:
Whip Coils - 3 pts per model
Particle caster - 5pts per model
Transdimensional beamer - 10pts per model
They really want people to continue to use Wraiths. T5 W2 3++ Ignores Terrain (except for charging), still S6 Rending... dangit the FA slot is STACKED.
WRAITHWING LIVES!
Holy crap that's ridiculous.
Was there a decent price bump in Wraiths recently?
vipoid wrote: Apparently Ghost Arks can only transport Warriors and Characters - so no using them for Lychguard.
Welp, rip that idea. I guess it's back to putting them in Night Scythes.
Which is fine imo. More Transport room (so 10 + Character), and Solar Pulse means they should survive the first turn out of disembarking. Still, it makes them much less mobile and a lot more iffy to use now.
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can mve over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths (40 points per model)
Any model may take one of the following:
Whip Coils - 3 pts per model
Particle caster - 5pts per model
Transdimensional beamer - 10pts per model
They really want people to continue to use Wraiths. T5 W2 3++ Ignores Terrain (except for charging), still S6 Rending... dangit the FA slot is STACKED.
WRAITHWING LIVES!
Holy crap that's ridiculous.
Was there a decent price bump in Wraiths recently?
They are 35 right now, but Transdimensional Beamer is 5 points cheaper (whatever that's worth), and Whip Coils are 7 points cheaper. That plus an extra wound is worth 5 points more baseline, imo.
Gauntlet of Fire, Phase Shifter, Staff of the Destroyer: 18", S6 AP2, Assault 3
IC, RP, It will not die, Hyperlogical Strategist trait
Lord of the Swarm: Night fighting is always in effect during first game turn. Once per game, at start of friendly shooting phase, roll a D6 for each enemy unit within 48" of Imootekh. On a 5+, that unit suffers D6 Strength 6 AP- hits, randomly allocated.
Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs: Flayed Ones can re-roll scatter dice when deep striking
Imotkeh's Staff of the Destroyer is MUCH better now (the one use thing was butts before and you know it), has IWND base, Lord of the Storm is actually buffed quite a frelling bit, and Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs + new Flayed Ones is quite good!
Sorry, but Imotek's Lord of the Storm ability got nerfed hard (thankfully). Yes, he has a better chance at hitting, but its at a reduced strength (previously was S8), and is only activated once per game instead of typically 3-5 times per game. Since it can only target units within 48" of Imotek, that could insinuate that cover saves can be taken, and he can no longer fire it off while in the safe confines of reserves or in a Nightscythe.
I'm personally glad that ability got nerfed hard, it was easily the most aggravating part of playing my opponent's Necrons. He had an uncanny knack for blowing up or hulling vehicles, and since he can't reroll those lightning strikes anymore with a chronometron, I'm even happier!
Kangodo wrote: Oooh, the hilarity!
"4++, does not confer to the chariot"
"3++.."
So unless the CCB is not allowed to take this item, I'm going to laugh hard.
At the moment everything seems to point at C'tans using two powers per turn.
So I have to get back on my early remark that they were crap, this would be quite awesome.
At least you admit it, I doubt Blaxican will though.
I see lists with night bringer deceiver and TC'tans leading wraiths all over the place. For the cost, the TC'tan is flat better then a CCBIMO.
It will be stupid to now see lists with 3-5 C'tan and all wraiths instead of AB's and all wraiths
I seriously can't belive they made wraiths better and cheaper, they were already hard to turn down before now why would anyone take pratorians and destroyers still.
vipoid wrote: Apparently Ghost Arks can only transport Warriors and Characters - so no using them for Lychguard.
Welp, rip that idea. I guess it's back to putting them in Night Scythes.
Which is fine imo. More Transport room (so 10 + Character), and Solar Pulse means they should survive the first turn out of disembarking. Still, it makes them much less mobile and a lot more iffy to use now.
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can mve over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths (40 points per model)
Any model may take one of the following:
Whip Coils - 3 pts per model
Particle caster - 5pts per model
Transdimensional beamer - 10pts per model
They really want people to continue to use Wraiths. T5 W2 3++ Ignores Terrain (except for charging), still S6 Rending... dangit the FA slot is STACKED.
WRAITHWING LIVES!
Holy crap that's ridiculous.
Was there a decent price bump in Wraiths recently?
They are 35 right now, but Transdimensional Beamer is 5 points cheaper (whatever that's worth), and Whip Coils are 7 points cheaper. That plus an extra wound is worth 5 points more baseline, imo.
I meant monetary.
"Make this unit even better, but raise the purchase price by %15"
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can mve over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths (40 points per model)
Any model may take one of the following:
Whip Coils - 3 pts per model
Particle caster - 5pts per model
Transdimensional beamer - 10pts per model
They [Ghost Arks] still repair D3 Warriors a turn
unit warriors 5 or 10 minimum?
catacomb comand barge Sweep Attack?
10 minimum, and no sweep attack
Okay this sempiternal weave thing...I've been looking and looking, and maybe I'm blind, but I don't see it anywhere. Zilch. Nada.
Destroyers (40 points, Fast Attack, Unit of 1)
Destroyer WS4 BS4 S4 T5 W2 I2 A1 Ld10 Sv.3+
Weapons: Gauss Cannon for Destroyer, Heavy Gauss Cannon for Heavy Destroyer
Preferred Enemy, Reanimation Protocols, Very Bulky
May include up to five additional destroyers for 40 points each
May upgrade ONE destroyer to a heavy destroyer for 10 points
Gauntlet of Fire, Phase Shifter, Staff of the Destroyer: 18", S6 AP2, Assault 3
IC, RP, It will not die, Hyperlogical Strategist trait
Lord of the Swarm: Night fighting is always in effect during first game turn. Once per game, at start of friendly shooting phase, roll a D6 for each enemy unit within 48" of Imootekh. On a 5+, that unit suffers D6 Strength 6 AP- hits, randomly allocated.
Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs: Flayed Ones can re-roll scatter dice when deep striking
Imotkeh's Staff of the Destroyer is MUCH better now (the one use thing was butts before and you know it), has IWND base, Lord of the Storm is actually buffed quite a frelling bit, and Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs + new Flayed Ones is quite good!
Sorry, but Imotek's Lord of the Storm ability got nerfed hard (thankfully). Yes, he has a better chance at hitting, but its at a reduced strength (previously was S8), and is only activated once per game instead of typically 3-5 times per game. Since it can only target units within 48" of Imotek, that could insinuate that cover saves can be taken, and he can no longer fire it off while in the safe confines of reserves or in a Nightscythe.
I'm personally glad that ability got nerfed hard, it was easily the most aggravating part of playing my opponent's Necrons. He had an uncanny knack for blowing up or hulling vehicles, and since he can't reroll those lightning strikes anymore with a chronometron, I'm even happier!
When he posted it, he simply said "At the start of every Shooting phase, roll a d6 for each enemy unit in 48" and on a 5+...", which makes me think that it's no longer limited by Night Fighting. If so, then it's a very, very good ability. If it's still bound to only Night Fighting, then you're right.
Gauss Cannon: 24", S5 AP3, Heavy 2, Gauss
Heavy Gauss Cannon: 36", S9, AP2, Heavy 1, Gauss
- Hyperphase Sword profile?
- Rod of the Covenant profile?
- Do Ghost Arks have the Fast Attack logo in the to right corner (around the points)?
- Same for Night Scythes?
- Is the teseract vault a lord of war or if not what slot and point cost?
- Is the trancendant C'tan a guarguantaun creature or just a monsterous creature?
- User strength, AP3
- 12", S5 AP2, Assault 1
- Yes it's Fast Attack
- Fast Attack
- Superheavy Vehicle, 550 pts
- MC
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote: The hit to hunters from hyperspace aint hit THAT hard. Deathmarks always used to be a kill it quickly before you die unit.
But now they MUST deepstrike to get fleshbane for a turn. Unless the wording on invasion beams is incredibly forgiving you can't use a NS for accurate deployment.
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can mve over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths (40 points per model)
Any model may take one of the following:
Whip Coils - 3 pts per model
Particle caster - 5pts per model
Transdimensional beamer - 10pts per model
So does this mean Wraiths are no longer Jump Infantry??
Gauntlet of Fire, Phase Shifter, Staff of the Destroyer: 18", S6 AP2, Assault 3
IC, RP, It will not die, Hyperlogical Strategist trait
Lord of the Swarm: Night fighting is always in effect during first game turn. Once per game, at start of friendly shooting phase, roll a D6 for each enemy unit within 48" of Imootekh. On a 5+, that unit suffers D6 Strength 6 AP- hits, randomly allocated.
Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs: Flayed Ones can re-roll scatter dice when deep striking
Imotkeh's Staff of the Destroyer is MUCH better now (the one use thing was butts before and you know it), has IWND base, Lord of the Storm is actually buffed quite a frelling bit, and Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs + new Flayed Ones is quite good!
Sorry, but Imotek's Lord of the Storm ability got nerfed hard (thankfully). Yes, he has a better chance at hitting, but its at a reduced strength (previously was S8), and is only activated once per game instead of typically 3-5 times per game. Since it can only target units within 48" of Imotek, that could insinuate that cover saves can be taken, and he can no longer fire it off while in the safe confines of reserves or in a Nightscythe.
I'm personally glad that ability got nerfed hard, it was easily the most aggravating part of playing my opponent's Necrons. He had an uncanny knack for blowing up or hulling vehicles, and since he can't reroll those lightning strikes anymore with a chronometron, I'm even happier!
When he posted it, he simply said "At the start of every Shooting phase, roll a d6 for each enemy unit in 48" and on a 5+...", which makes me think that it's no longer limited by Night Fighting. If so, then it's a very, very good ability. If it's still bound to only Night Fighting, then you're right.
It doesn't read like its bound to Night Fighting, but even so, its still a big nerf.
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can mve over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths (40 points per model)
Any model may take one of the following:
Whip Coils - 3 pts per model
Particle caster - 5pts per model
Transdimensional beamer - 10pts per model
So does this mean Wraiths are no longer Jump Infantry??
Does it matter? Beasts still move 12", they ignore terrain, and they still have a 3++. Losing Jump did what, remove Deep Strike and Hammer of Wrath? Acceptable losses.
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote: The hit to hunters from hyperspace aint hit THAT hard. Deathmarks always used to be a kill it quickly before you die unit.
Kinda. I used to use 3 Deathmarks to counter my buddy's Carnifexes or Gaunt blobs. You used to be able to get the 2+ on any model with the Marked for death rule, so they would eat up chunks of his units.
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can mve over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths (40 points per model)
Any model may take one of the following:
Whip Coils - 3 pts per model
Particle caster - 5pts per model
Transdimensional beamer - 10pts per model
So does this mean Wraiths are no longer Jump Infantry??
) : look at all the new ways to field necrons; 
