Considering I don't field solo knights any more having 2 small low and making a shdeatch +3 cp is big for ad mech. As long as they are worth it!

So for me seems like a good option since many got a crusader++ getting dust but:

A) need to be cc worty with good invu not like Robots !
B) need to be low in points to fit with Cawl star +1 more detach!
C) need to have ad mech for canticles or we are again with out new unit and as always it would be more wise to play imperium with Astra custodes detachments.
D) if there is no synergy with ad mech will prove that gw really don't give a gak about ad mech. There non other army codex or not so bad designed useless and with no plan on the table like ad mech.

PiñaColada wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
They are a Lord of War? Well, they will be overpriced then. GW has no idea how to handle point costs on the "big" stuff (see: Knights).

That's what I'm afraid of. The box is weird though, someone over at bolter and chainsword calculated the necrons to be worth around 500points (I don't know necrons and this is obviously pre-codex so not exactly ironclad numbers) but Admech is 195 minimum sans knights (125 for a base TPD and 70 for 10 rangers, stock) but considering they're showing them with an transuranic arquebus, an arc rifle and a guy with a phosphor blast pistol they're actually 227 points. (+25,+4,+3 respectively). So unless the knights are like 135points each how is this box balanced pointwise?

They don't do balanced box sets, so that isn't something I would factor in. Unless they really are cheap and just terrible - which their weapon load out makes me think they will be.

Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

The Baneblade is the exception, not the rule.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

The Baneblade is the exception, not the rule.

Still, evidence they are getting a better handle on Lords of War. I think unifying them with other vehicles rather than having them be special snowflakes has really helped GW to sort them out.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

The Baneblade is the exception, not the rule.

Still, evidence they are getting a better handle on Lords of War. I think unifying them with other vehicles rather than having them be special snowflakes has really helped GW to sort them out.

Chapter Approved kinda says they aren't getting it.

250 points
T7
18 wounds
2x meltagun shots that hit on 3+, no access to rerolls
4x melee swings that hit on a 3+, d6 damage, str 12, -3

You know these are the stats in your heart of hearts. These things are going to be unusable junk.

Since they are new wulfey would Gw not want them to sell.

Surely they will come outta the box - on the good to OP side...and then thoroughly nerf them later?

Ie hurray...until a chapter approved nerf hammer and then everyone gets buyers remorse?

They have 2 things going against them:
1. Big stuff is overpriced
2. If something shoots well and punches well - it is overpriced.

I'd guess M12" BS3+ WS3+ S7 T7 W14 A4 LD8 Sv3+ and a 5+ invulvn against shooting (well maybe not but I hope)
The thermal spear , which is a badass name, has the stats of the old thermal cannon and shorter range I'd guess. So Range 24" Heavy D3 S9 AP-4 Dmg D6 (12" melta range)
The reaper chain cleaver is a weaker chainsword so maybe S+3 AP-3 Dmg 3

All for the low price of: I want to cry(?)

So I've had quite a bit of luck lately with the following list:



My LVO list had no problem hitting super hard, but had a lot of trouble staying around. The fistellans were shockingly not durable, lacking an invulnerable in combat. The game at the LVO that bothers me the most was the one I played on the GW stream, where celestine walked all over me. I need something with an invul like celestine.

The custodes are the answer here. They are T6 which gets them functionally into the same toughness territory as the robots and have a 4+ invul, with the option for two of them to go to 3+ via wargear. Add into that a WT that gives a 5+ FNP save, the ability to swap out the warlord when one dies and get this trait back, they are crazy durable. Seven wounds mean they can't be removed by a single lucky damage d6 type weapon. They also have the character rule which can be super useful, especially with the dragoons upfield. Coupled with the fact they can act as anti-tank with the salvo launcher they get to be pretty damn useful.

I've been using them to keep the pressure off of my gunline and to support the dragoons where needed. This list has been so fun to play and has rekindled my desire to play ad-mech after the pounding I received at the lvo haha.

If we had a transport for Fulgurite electro priests they could sorta fulfil this role, but even so, the custodes would be definitely more points efficient.

Yes, using Shield Captains in place of Celestine makes a good list. I have run them a few times and have found them to be super worth their 160 points. They are tough and threaten everything and have the mobility to actually play the game while your admech doesn't move. What feels odd is the conflict between sydonian dragoons and the bikers. They feel like they would be fighting for the same space and doing similar jobs. Dragoons have left me with a lot of bad feels because they are VEHICLES without FLY so they can never threaten anything in terrain and get wrecked by narrow rock gaps. Against non-eldar they will do great work.

Because Shield captains can fly, they can always wobbly model onto any part of terrain and don't have the crippling weaknesses dragoons have against power players.

Wulfey wrote:
Yes, using Shield Captains in place of Celestine makes a good list. I have run them a few times and have found them to be super worth their 160 points. They are tough and threaten everything and have the mobility to actually play the game while your admech doesn't move. What feels odd is the conflict between sydonian dragoons and the bikers. They feel like they would be fighting for the same space and doing similar jobs. Dragoons have left me with a lot of bad feels because they are VEHICLES without FLY so they can never threaten anything in terrain and get wrecked by narrow rock gaps. Against non-eldar they will do great work.

Because Shield captains can fly, they can always wobbly model onto any part of terrain and don't have the crippling weaknesses dragoons have against power players.

I really like dragoons, despite their weaknesses. The ability to infiltrate and charge has been clutch, the ability to go up S9 with ap -1 and D2 is amazing against tanks, monsters, etc. They also do fantastic work as a giant distraction carnifex. I've never felt they have not been worth it. I wouldn't leave home without this unit, mostly cause they are so fun to play.

Wulfey wrote:
Yes, using Shield Captains in place of Celestine makes a good list. I have run them a few times and have found them to be super worth their 160 points. They are tough and threaten everything and have the mobility to actually play the game while your admech doesn't move. What feels odd is the conflict between sydonian dragoons and the bikers. They feel like they would be fighting for the same space and doing similar jobs. Dragoons have left me with a lot of bad feels because they are VEHICLES without FLY so they can never threaten anything in terrain and get wrecked by narrow rock gaps. Against non-eldar they will do great work.

Because Shield captains can fly, they can always wobbly model onto any part of terrain and don't have the crippling weaknesses dragoons have against power players.

They do different jobs, but in a similar way. Dragoons are can openers that wreck vehicles and characters. Custodes are mostly SM Bikes on steroids; they perform mostly anti-infantry roles.

I don't understand what you mean by "can never threaten anything in terrain." Do you mean ruins specifically?

And yeah, obstacles and impassable terrain can be a problem for Dragoons. It's why I never recommend more than 4. Just a reality of how piling in works.

Suzuteo wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Yes, using Shield Captains in place of Celestine makes a good list. I have run them a few times and have found them to be super worth their 160 points. They are tough and threaten everything and have the mobility to actually play the game while your admech doesn't move. What feels odd is the conflict between sydonian dragoons and the bikers. They feel like they would be fighting for the same space and doing similar jobs. Dragoons have left me with a lot of bad feels because they are VEHICLES without FLY so they can never threaten anything in terrain and get wrecked by narrow rock gaps. Against non-eldar they will do great work.

Because Shield captains can fly, they can always wobbly model onto any part of terrain and don't have the crippling weaknesses dragoons have against power players.

They do different jobs, but in a similar way. Dragoons are can openers that wreck vehicles and characters. Custodes are mostly SM Bikes on steroids; they perform mostly anti-infantry roles.

I don't understand what you mean by "can never threaten anything in terrain." Do you mean ruins specifically?

And yeah, obstacles and impassable terrain can be a problem for Dragoons. It's why I never recommend more than 4. Just a reality of how piling in works.

If an opponent deepstrikes an infantry unit into terrain that is 3" above the ground, it isn't on the first floor of the ruins. So as a vehicle without fly, the dragoons can never pile in within 1 inch of the upstairs models. I may bring my dragoons off the shelf if i can find a game. But I like my bikers so much. THey can get up those ruins and get those models that opponents say are invincible thanks to ruins rules. The good thing about the dragoon bomb list is that it forces your opponent to shoot them at -2. Robots aren't good targets and custodes can't be shot if skitarii are still alive. I do hope the march update mixes things up to allow melee vehicles to be more flexible about targeting things in terrain.

Yeah, okay. That's what I thought. It is super annoying, but the way I see it, Dragoons aren't meant to chase infantry into ruins. They are intended to go for transports and tanks. Maybe get those necessary early hits on a Celestine or Smash Bro.

Personnaly, my 3 Stygies Dragoons + Stratagem are a terrifying weapon against TEQ. I've been wrecking 5 DW Knights consistently on the charge thanks to that.

EDIT: Had the most spectacular fail from 10 Hellblasters while playing against Raven Guard today. He shot my 3 Dragoons with them, in Overcharge, without re-rolls. He lost 9 Hellblasters because of the 1s and 2s to Hit and killed me exactly one Dragoon. I think they are blessed. And morality: Always get rerolls while firing Overcharge.

Finally had a game with Lucius and managed to teleport my tech priest dominus to safety. Hurray for the solar flare.

Highlight of the game was taking down a demon prince with a 5 man squad of Vanguard lol.

Lost on victory points in the end by 1. Can’t win them all.

Anyone else tried Lucius and playing quite aggressive with deep strikes?

Hmm I don't know, it looks costly on CPs. And some codices have anti-DS stratagems that can erase your squad if you don't remember it. I prefer Stygies now that I've figured out that the only chance your infiltrating unit is in danger is by having the first turn taken on a 6 by your opponent. I managed to infiltrate 3 Dragoons today against Space Wolves, after the Destroyers and Neutron erased a few Dreadnoughts, I charged the 3 TW and the damaged Rhino, popped Conqueror Imperatives and killed them all. Most brutal Alpha strike ever done by myself. For his defence, he didn't have a good list at all, but he's playing with what he has. Felt good for destroying so much in one turn, but bad for my opponent, as I know what it feels like to be erased in one turn, too.

Poor space pup eh!

It is quite costly on CP. my first 2 units were free as I rolled 2x 6,s for monitor malevelous

I am abysmal at deployment and always seem to place my units in the worse possible position.

I need to get some more dragoons. Looking forward to Teleporting Lance squadron of doom!

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

The Baneblade is the exception, not the rule.

Still, evidence they are getting a better handle on Lords of War. I think unifying them with other vehicles rather than having them be special snowflakes has really helped GW to sort them out.

Chapter Approved kinda says they aren't getting it.

Point to where, please.

FW stuff saw an across the board increase, not just for LoWs. For cripe's sake, the Tarantula Sentry Gun and Rapier Laser Destroyers saw points boosts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

They don't do balanced box sets, so that isn't something I would factor in. Unless they really are cheap and just terrible - which their weapon load out makes me think they will be.

Uhh...yeah, they really do. Box sets like this tend to be fairly close in points.

I think people are forgetting, currently, that Necrons are slated for a Codex around the same time this book comes out so will likely see some points tweaks. We're also slated to see a March 'State of the Game' FAQ that may/may not adjust points on some stuff.

Well the garbage big stuff is still garbage after CA as most of it was not changed. That's enough proof, no?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

The Baneblade is the exception, not the rule.

Everyone has been crying about how OP my baneblade is.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

The Baneblade is the exception, not the rule.

Everyone has been crying about how OP my baneblade is.

And everyone with a Wraithknight is just crying.

My buddy swears by the Shadowsword + CC(5+/5+) + 2x primaris psykers supreme command detachment. The two psykers can either buff the shadowsword or smite. The SS is Valhallan so it doesn't degrade. CC gives the rerolls. If you go against a daemon primarch you basically auto win thanks to the vengeance for cadia stratagem that gives reroll hit and wound against chaos for only 1 CP.

Wulfey wrote:
My buddy swears by the Shadowsword + CC(5+/5+) + 2x primaris psykers supreme command detachment. The two psykers can either buff the shadowsword or smite. The SS is Valhallan so it doesn't degrade. CC gives the rerolls. If you go against a daemon primarch you basically auto win thanks to the vengeance for cadia stratagem that gives reroll hit and wound against chaos for only 1 CP.

I don't know, every time someone mentions the shadowsword I just feel like it's either going to be amazing or awful depending on who you face. Yeah, it's going to obliterate a primarch or a knight but if you face someone who doesn't have any one model worth more than a predator/leman russ it's going to be rough earning those points back. Isn't the answer always a baneblade as of right now?

PiñaColada wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
My buddy swears by the Shadowsword + CC(5+/5+) + 2x primaris psykers supreme command detachment. The two psykers can either buff the shadowsword or smite. The SS is Valhallan so it doesn't degrade. CC gives the rerolls. If you go against a daemon primarch you basically auto win thanks to the vengeance for cadia stratagem that gives reroll hit and wound against chaos for only 1 CP.

I don't know, every time someone mentions the shadowsword I just feel like it's either going to be amazing or awful depending on who you face. Yeah, it's going to obliterate a primarch or a knight but if you face someone who doesn't have any one model worth more than a predator/leman russ it's going to be rough earning those points back. Isn't the answer always a baneblade as of right now?

The baneblade kills things that other models in your army can kill. The Shadowsword kills things the other tanks can't. The big gun and the anti titan rules take it over the top. You don't need the weird artillery cannon in the hull.

Shadowswords can also have a ton of flamers or HB. It's the tank of all tanks

Wulfey wrote:
My buddy swears by the Shadowsword + CC(5+/5+) + 2x primaris psykers supreme command detachment. The two psykers can either buff the shadowsword or smite. The SS is Valhallan so it doesn't degrade. CC gives the rerolls. If you go against a daemon primarch you basically auto win thanks to the vengeance for cadia stratagem that gives reroll hit and wound against chaos for only 1 CP.

...this is evil and I want to do it. I sold my Shadowsword though.

How is a company commander giving it rerolls? Neither tank commanders nor infantry commanders can order a baneblade variant. Far as I know the only way to do that would be yarrick or harker

You know what the shadowsword's really not great against? Eldar. -1 to hit. Another -1 to hit from stratagem. Suddenly, you need 6s!

 ph34r wrote:
You know what the shadowsword's really not great against? Eldar. -1 to hit. Another -1 to hit from stratagem. Suddenly, you need 6s!

Just run them over.

But yeah, -2 to hit is serious BS. Which is why Dragoons are serious BS.

Yeah, the shadowsword is actually quite awesome in melee.

Hello everyone!

I'm thinking of building a small side army to fight alongside my Raven Guard, and I was considering going with AdMech to represent the local forces from Kiavahr/Deliverance. However, I know basically nothing about how the AdMech army works, what synergizes well, etc etc. Aside from some kitbashed Guardsmen with Skitarii weapons I plan to run as Rangers and an ooooold Forge World Engineseer, I also don't have any minis.

Can anyone give me some suggestions? What units should I be looking at to work well with Space Marines? Any stand-out units/things to be avoided at all costs? I was thinking of going with the Stygies dogma, though Agripinaa also sounds intriguing (since I'd probably be using Skitarii as bubblewrap to absorb charges).

Any advice you could give would be great!

If you're pairing with Ravenguard, you'll be using Scouts to screen for robots. Do 1000 - 1200 points of Cawl and robots, then one big Raven guard unit to drop in front with their stratagem, and fill the rest with scouts. Not a bad combo.

Yeah. A Cawlstar with 4-6 Robots and Cawl is easily slotted into any army, and kills practically anything.

I have a massive guard army and part of my fluff is that they're on a small scale Macharius type crusade and in one of my campaigns (actual campaign with friends) my army won a planet with a partially functioning STC and earned favor with the Ad Mech. So in honor of that budding alliance (and absolute love for the Kastelan Robots) I got a patrol detachment worth of ad mech. Forgebane and the upcoming campaign got me excited so thanks to eBay I've now got:

Cawl
2 Dominus
1 Engineer (usually plays in my guard army)
10 Rangers w/2 arquebusses
10 Vanguard
3 Breachers w/arc rifles
3 Breachers w/magnetized guns
6 Destroyers w/plasma (I used the wargame exclusive guys since they look BA and are a bit thinner to represent the 4+ save)
10 Fulgerites (because they are fun as gak)
5 Infiltrators
4 dakkabots
3 Dunecrawlers

I don't own any knights but I'm interested in those new ones in Forgebane. Do you think they'll add any value to this army?

 Colonel Cross wrote:

6 Destroyers w/plasma (I used the wargame exclusive guys since they look BA and are a bit thinner to represent the 4+ save)

FYI the breachers tracks on the official models are covered an plate armour, the destroyers arent. Quite WHY they dont just bolt those plates on the destroyers is another matter entirely :|

Octovol wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:

6 Destroyers w/plasma (I used the wargame exclusive guys since they look BA and are a bit thinner to represent the 4+ save)

FYI the breachers tracks on the official models are covered an plate armour, the destroyers arent. Quite WHY they dont just bolt those plates on the destroyers is another matter entirely :|

They'd overheat after a few hours

Source: 7th ed admech codex, probably in 8th as well but I haven't had a look of the lore in that one.

Suzuteo wrote:Yeah. A Cawlstar with 4-6 Robots and Cawl is easily slotted into any army, and kills practically anything.

axisofentropy wrote:If you're pairing with Ravenguard, you'll be using Scouts to screen for robots. Do 1000 - 1200 points of Cawl and robots, then one big Raven guard unit to drop in front with their stratagem, and fill the rest with scouts. Not a bad combo.

I appreciate the advice, though in terms of fluff I'm not sure that including nothing but Cawl and robots really fits the theme that I'm going for (i.e. troops from a small forge world fighting alongside some Marines). I could see the robots being workable, though my Raven Guard are especially lacking in anti-tank weapons, which made me look more at the Onagers. Are Skitarii not any good? Between the weapons, saves, canticles, etc they seemed like a decent inexpensive(ish) way of getting some more bodies on the field as some bubblewrap.

Mm... you could bring naked Vanguard and Dragoons in a Stygies detachment? If you want a Dominus, he works well with Ironstriders too. Just pump them with Protector Doctrina Imperative and the reroll 1 is as good as Cawl's reroll against anything but -1 to hits.

Oh if you're not trying to be competitive then play whatever you think looks cool (hint it all looks cool as hell).

Dunecrawlers and/or Destroyers would also pair well with Raven Guard.

Yeah. AdMech does look cool as hell. It's also one of the most nightmarishly difficult armies to build and paint. T_T

Thanks everyone! I don't plan to play at any tournaments or anything, though my local meta is reasonably competitive and min-maxed. I mostly don't want to simply auto-lose based on my list choices. Dragoons and Ironstriders both look very interesting, and I love the Dunecrawlers. Are Dunecrawlers and Ironstriders the primary anti-tank for AdMech armies (short of Knights, anyway)? Any recommendations between Vanguard anf Ranger Skitarii?

So today hopefully we find out whether it's worth buying Forgebane or not! Armiger preview incoming!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Porphyrius wrote:
Thanks everyone! I don't plan to play at any tournaments or anything, though my local meta is reasonable competitive and min-maxed. I mostly don't want to simply auto-lose based on my list choices. Dragoons and Ironstriders both look very interesting, and I love the Dunecrawlers. Are Dunecrawlers and Ironstriders the primary anti-tank for AdMech armies (short of Knights, anyway)? Any recommendations between Vanguard anf Ranger Skitarii?

See the thing is, admech lack a lot of the synergy the other post-8th codex have been given. Apparently our codex was too early for them to bother thinking about too much.

So we pretty much use robots to kill everything that doesn't need a taser lance to the face lol. Dunecrawlers with neutron lasers or icarus arrays are solid heavy choices as well, though neutron laser is a bit of dice roulette that when they dice are in your favour will murder anything without a good invulnerable save.

I've had good success with Autocannon ironstriders against primaris, a group of 3 comes in at 225 points and offers you 12 shots at 3+, and if you pop a strategm for 1cp....hits on 1+ and with a dominus nearby re-rolls 1. Pretty much gaurantees all 12 to hit just about anything. ironstriders can also advance and fire their Autocannons/Lascannons if you need them to, and popping aforementioned strategm means they can do it while still hitting on 3+.

Dragoons are the same story but better against bigger targets, they're less good against infantry where volume of attacks against them will be their downfall with a lack lustre save. What really makes them good is their ability to move in on vehicles and big things under a cover save and with the stygies dogma a -2 to hit them. Their taser lances also do 2dmg and explode into 3 attacks on a hit roll of 6, which with an equivalemnt strategm to the ironstriders means they explode on 4s and hit on 1+. They're also str 8 base which means they wound virtually everything on a 3 or 2. use the right canticle and you can get them to str 9 and wound a Knight on 3 as well. 4 dragoons set you back 282 points, for 16 attacks that explode on 4s; Not unheard of for them to take out a knight in one turn.

Robots are like the best combination of both, we never field them for melee, they have no invulnerable save in combat and they only hit on 4s. So we use them with 9 heavy phosphor shots each which you can double to 18 under the right protocol. 4 robots alone put out 72 str 6, -2 1D shots for 440 points, and each is T7, 6W with a 4++/5++ and 6s on your invulnerable save reflect mortal wounds to the firer. For 2cp your 72 shots can also deal additional mortal wounds on a natural 6, which is a daemon's worst nightmare.

Our troops are decent, but they're paper thin in 8th compared to 7th. Though much cheaper now. Vanguard put out a lot of shots and 6s to wound make them 2dmg, a squad of 10 naked will put out 30 shots at 18" and in a metallica detachment can advance and fire at no penalty. Anything in combat with them also suffers -1 to toughness, which is only useful if you want to field sicarians or priests. Rangers can benefit from the metalica dogam as well but they lose their rapidfire when they advance; Still puts their threat range at around 42" though, but they just dont have the punch or the number of shots at that range for it to be worth it imo. They are 1pt cheaper each though.

The special weapons on both are decent but pricey and again, you're making a 7/8 pt paper thin model into a 20-30+ point model. Points are usually better spent elsewhere. For the price of 3 special weapons you can almost buy another dragoon.

I'm actually thinking of ditching Neutrons completelly. Most good tough things have an invul save. Against the biggest threats: waveserpents and flyrants, the Lascannon Balistarii actually does more damage :/

Suzuteo wrote:
Yeah. AdMech does look cool as hell. It's also one of the most nightmarishly difficult armies to build and paint. T_T

Amen. Fulgurites, Infiltrators and Dragoons. My hate for those models is unending.

Looking at the forgebane set. I expect Armiger a will be ~ 135 points and 8 wounds

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
Yeah. AdMech does look cool as hell. It's also one of the most nightmarishly difficult armies to build and paint. T_T

Amen. Fulgurites, Infiltrators and Dragoons. My hate for those models is unending.

Don't have any priests and the Dragoons are indeed designed in one of the circles in hell, but infiltrators? I thought those were pretty nice tbh, I do however dislike painting and assembling rangers/vanguard even though I like the finished models and field a lot of them


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/12/forge-world-preview-termite-assault-drillgw-homepage-post-2/

Also this, looks fun! Could this be the start of the myth of myths, Fires of Cyraxus?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/12/unit-focus-armiger-warglaivesgw-homepage-post-4/

The Armiger rules are up. I think they look pretty decent although I had hoped that the thermal spear had strength 9, like it's bigger cousin.

Looks like the efficiency of that thing is entirely dependant on it's points cost.

Knight Armiger article up
So they can't disengage and fight/shoot as normal.

Armiger Warglaives are FAST – a 14″ move lets them to close in on enemy targets rapidly, allowing them to unleash hell with their devastating short-ranged weaponry. With Toughness 7, 12 Wounds, a 3+ Save and an ion shield to boot, they’re no slouches defensively, either. It’ll take some pretty dedicated anti-armour firepower to bring one down. We’d recommend taking full advantage of this by sending your Armiger Warglaives ahead of your force and forcing your enemy to deal with them, making space for the rest of your army to operate. Should they fail to take your Armiger Warglaives down – well, that’s where the fun begins…

With four attacks at Strength 12, AP -3 and Damage 3, there’s little that can stand up to an assault from this brutal weapon, and it’ll be particularly potent against enemy heavy infantry as well as armoured units. Just watch out for hordes – you might find yourself bogged down when battling Ork Boyz, Hormagaunts and the like, as you lack the ability of the full-sized Imperial Knight to fall back and shoot with impunity.

So how do we feel about these?

 Colonel Cross wrote:
Looks like the efficiency of that thing is entirely dependant on it's points cost.

Absolutely. I'm really hoping it's not like 235 points. These things look like they could bring some fun to an admech gunline and probably team up well with dragoons so please make them an attractive choice pointswise

One thing to note: "Unlike other Lords of War, you’ll be able to fit up to three Armigers in a single slot". Since it sounds like they'll be Questor Mechanicus, this means Rotate Ion Shields will apply to the entire group of three, if you take them as a unit.

No news on what that gun on top is? It’s not a heavy stubbed or phosphor blaster

gendoikari87 wrote:
No news on what that gun on top is? It’s not a heavy stubbed or phosphor blaster

It's a meltagun.

There is a heavy stubber/phosphor blaster that's been seen in other photos/on the sprue.

That’s a melta gun? Looks like a long barreled melta

I wonder if they will keep the points cost a secret until after pre orders are up...

Maybe I’m just suspicious

gendoikari87 wrote:
That’s a melta gun? Looks like a long barreled melta

No different than the Meltagun from this:


It's a more 'realistic' design, like the Autocannons are compared to those on previous items.

At 200 it has OK durability. If it costs much more - it'll suck

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
At 200 it has OK durability. If it costs much more - it'll suck

Durability sure, but considering you're quite likely advancing with it round one and firing a d3 weapon you're gonna end up with one hit in meltarange so there's a real risk for mediocre to no damage at all. I really hope they're around 175 points cause otherwise wehat's the argument for this rather than an onager and a dragoon?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I'm actually thinking of ditching Neutrons completelly. Most good tough things have an invul save. Against the biggest threats: waveserpents and flyrants, the Lascannon Balistarii actually does more damage :/

I know where you are coming from, I´m also wondering if I should abandon the Neutron Onager. Sure it´s great if you get to shoot at Leman Russes or things like that but thats not really what I am facing very much. Sure Balistarii does more dmg but it is also a lot more fragile compared to a Crawler. T6 vs T7 and 4+/6++ vs 3+/5++ (with rerolling 1s most likely)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
At 200 it has OK durability. If it costs much more - it'll suck

Durability sure, but considering you're quite likely advancing with it round one and firing a d3 weapon you're gonna end up with one hit in meltarange so there's a real risk for mediocre to no damage at all. I really hope they're around 175 points cause otherwise wehat's the argument for this rather than an onager and a dragoon?

I dont know if I would even take it a 175. Im really not impressed...

I suspect that a T7 unit with little or no ability to clear tarpits... And that can't shoot after falling back from the tarpits... is going to be quite poor.

How will this make it past screens to reach the armour it wants to fight?

The 30" melta is ok, so you can shoot over the screens then kite people around a bit I guess.

Maybe dakkastelans become your screen clearer on T1 to make a gap for the armigers to punch through?

If they are more than 150-170 pts I worry for their usability.

 lash92 wrote:

I dont know if I would even take it a 175. Im really not impressed...

So at what point cost would they interest you? 150? 130?
At 150 or less I'll easily use both but I also really like the models and moving away from a static gunline is tempting, especially if I don't have to buy more dragoons.

If they were between 130 to 150 I would definitely take 2

Would then take

Super heavy detachment

Knight crusader
Armiger
Armiger

Stygies or Lucius Battalion
Enginseer (warlord 6+)
Cawl
3 squads 5x Rangers
5 Daka bots
4 dragoons

I’m not sure how that would likely play but would be a fun army for me

PiñaColada wrote:

 lash92 wrote:

I dont know if I would even take it a 175. Im really not impressed...

So at what point cost would they interest you? 150? 130?
At 150 or less I'll easily use both but I also really like the models and moving away from a static gunline is tempting, especially if I don't have to buy more dragoons.

I dont really have an answer for you. I just thing the model isn´t really adding something to our army..

250 is about what they SHOULD. Cost

gendoikari87 wrote:
250 is about what they SHOULD. Cost

Party pooper

gendoikari87 wrote:
250 is about what they SHOULD. Cost

Lol I literally have a durability chart. At 250 they are bellow average against every weapon in the game except lasguns lol

 lash92 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

 lash92 wrote:

I dont know if I would even take it a 175. Im really not impressed...

So at what point cost would they interest you? 150? 130?
At 150 or less I'll easily use both but I also really like the models and moving away from a static gunline is tempting, especially if I don't have to buy more dragoons.

I dont really have an answer for you. I just thing the model isn´t really adding something to our army..

Agreed. We already have good anti-tank shooting and fast walkers. I'm hoping GW has anti-horde variants for us to use.

These things are terrible. They are glass cannons. A wave serpent is ~160 points, -1 to be hit, -1 to all damage instances, 6+++ FNP, and they usually have some kind of psychic buff for more defense. And they are 13 wounds I think. Armigers are joke. Complete trash. They are going to cost 220 points for a dreadnaught that moves faster and doesn't have chapter tactics. And the D3 melta is really the last straw for me. D3? Why not just 2? Awful.

A neutron onager is 140 points. The Armiger is faster and has melee. THat means it starts at 220 points. But its stats make it flimsy for its points.

I would replace all my dunecrawlers with these at 170 or thereabouts and certainly consider taking more autocannon ironstriders to go with them....shame the ironstriders cant move and fire with no penalty...but at least with can doctrina them.

Incidentally ion shield means it has no invuln in combat though right? what is the point in that. Same story as robots.

Wulfey wrote:
These things are terrible. They are glass cannons. A wave serpent is ~160 points, -1 to be hit, -1 to all damage instances, 6+++ FNP, and they usually have some kind of psychic buff for more defense. And they are 13 wounds I think. Armigers are joke. Complete trash. They are going to cost 220 points for a dreadnaught that moves faster and doesn't have chapter tactics. And the D3 melta is really the last straw for me. D3? Why not just 2? Awful.

A neutron onager is 140 points. The Armiger is faster and has melee. THat means it starts at 220 points. But its stats make it flimsy for its points.

Came here to say this, not surprised Wulfey said it first.

GW prices big, durable stuff too high. This won't be an exception.

Stats and math say they should be around 235, if the box is even close to a balanced force they can’t be more than 135-150 each


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even cutting the score for meele ability in half it should be 219

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
These things are terrible. They are glass cannons. A wave serpent is ~160 points, -1 to be hit, -1 to all damage instances, 6+++ FNP, and they usually have some kind of psychic buff for more defense. And they are 13 wounds I think. Armigers are joke. Complete trash. They are going to cost 220 points for a dreadnaught that moves faster and doesn't have chapter tactics. And the D3 melta is really the last straw for me. D3? Why not just 2? Awful.

A neutron onager is 140 points. The Armiger is faster and has melee. THat means it starts at 220 points. But its stats make it flimsy for its points.

Came here to say this, not surprised Wulfey said it first.

GW prices big, durable stuff too high. This won't be an exception.

They need to be 180 points to compete with my 160 custodes bike captains. Anything more and I want the biker captain.

 lash92 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I'm actually thinking of ditching Neutrons completelly. Most good tough things have an invul save. Against the biggest threats: waveserpents and flyrants, the Lascannon Balistarii actually does more damage :/

I know where you are coming from, I´m also wondering if I should abandon the Neutron Onager. Sure it´s great if you get to shoot at Leman Russes or things like that but thats not really what I am facing very much. Sure Balistarii does more dmg but it is also a lot more fragile compared to a Crawler. T6 vs T7 and 4+/6++ vs 3+/5++ (with rerolling 1s most likely)

Neutron has been dead since the Eldar codex landed. Custodes and Blood Angels reinforced the need for Icarus. And with the Tau codex coming, Icarus might almost be mandatory. The strongest units all fly!

Wulfey wrote:

They need to be 180 points to compete with my 160 custodes bike captains. Anything more and I want the biker captain.

Those captains are amazing for their points imo (and also really cool models) so even at 180 I don't think they're competing but maybe that's because of all the eldar&fly I'm facing. However since I play mono-faction (well other than potentially knight I guess, it get blurry with these guys) I'd be quite happy with a 180point armiger.

Concerning Armigers: Looking at this stateline, I agree with rvd1ofakind. They need to be in the 140-180 cost range. They are just Crawlers that have traded away 33" of range for an oversized chainsword and more wounds. Super disappointed they don't have an autocannon option.

That being said, the more interesting question is this: Are 3 Armigers better than an Imperial Knight?

Suzuteo wrote:

 lash92 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I'm actually thinking of ditching Neutrons completelly. Most good tough things have an invul save. Against the biggest threats: waveserpents and flyrants, the Lascannon Balistarii actually does more damage :/

I know where you are coming from, I´m also wondering if I should abandon the Neutron Onager. Sure it´s great if you get to shoot at Leman Russes or things like that but thats not really what I am facing very much. Sure Balistarii does more dmg but it is also a lot more fragile compared to a Crawler. T6 vs T7 and 4+/6++ vs 3+/5++ (with rerolling 1s most likely)

Neutron has been dead since the Eldar codex landed. Custodes and Blood Angels reinforced the need for Icarus. And with the Tau codex coming, Icarus might almost be mandatory. The strongest units all fly!

Neutronager does a different job, unless you pop strat to let it shoot a non-invuln flyers. It isn't a choice between one or the other, imo - just take both. They are cheap enough to do so.


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Suzuteo wrote:
Concerning Armigers: Looking at this stateline, I agree with rvd1ofakind. They need to be in the 140-180 cost range. Otherwise, they are just Crawlers that have traded away 33" of range for an oversized chainsword. Super disappointed they don't have an autocannon option.

That being said, the more interesting question is this: Are 3 Armigers better than an Imperial Knight?

As for weapon loadout - keep in mind this is a boxed set. When they inevitably go to a solo kit, I imagine we will see more options... I hope. And that is likely what I will wait for, provided the point cost isn't awful.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

Neutron has been dead since the Eldar codex landed. Custodes and Blood Angels reinforced the need for Icarus. And with the Tau codex coming, Icarus might almost be mandatory. The strongest units all fly!

Neutronager does a different job, unless you pop strat to let it shoot a non-invuln flyers. It isn't a choice between one or the other, imo - just take both. They are cheap enough to do so.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suzuteo wrote:
Concerning Armigers: Looking at this stateline, I agree with rvd1ofakind. They need to be in the 140-180 cost range. Otherwise, they are just Crawlers that have traded away 33" of range for an oversized chainsword. Super disappointed they don't have an autocannon option.

That being said, the more interesting question is this: Are 3 Armigers better than an Imperial Knight?

As for weapon loadout - keep in mind this is a boxed set. When they inevitably go to a solo kit, I imagine we will see more options... I hope. And that is likely what I will wait for, provided the point cost isn't awful.

If I had three tank slots, I would bring three Icarus. There is no situation where I would prefer a Neutron Crawler. Anti-tank should fall to Basilisks, Dragoons, and Kastelan Robots.

True. I might pass on Forgebane for only that reason.

Suzuteo wrote:

If I had three tank slots, I would bring three Icarus. There is no situation where I would prefer a Neutron Crawler. Anti-tank should fall to Basilisks, Dragoons, and Kastelan Robots.

True. I might pass on Forgebane for only that reason.

Not everyone is running Basilisks. For those folks (myself included), I lean on the Neutronager.

Also, Kastelans sometimes are tied up with priority targets. Dragoons also can't engage across the table or tackle flyers.

In those instances, I am usually happy for my Neutronager. When it shines, it shines bright as heck!

You guys want this thing to be cheaper than leman Russ? Which is 4x slower and has no cc ability? And is already considered op?

Greedy much?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry 3x slower

gendoikari87 wrote:
You guys want this thing to be cheaper than leman Russ? Which is 4x slower and has no cc ability? And is already considered op?

Greedy much?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry 3x slower

It isn't like it has a slew of turret options that can fire twice when it moves.

It is a robot with a mediocre arsenal and a CC weapon.

The Russ likely is the bigger culprit, being so cheap. Then again, I think most of the 8th ed point values are pretty uneven across armies.

It’s better than a dreadnoght ....

gendoikari87 wrote:
You guys want this thing to be cheaper than leman Russ? Which is 4x slower and has no cc ability? And is already considered op?

Greedy much?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry 3x slower

The Leman Russ is less than 2x slower (10" versus 14"). It's only like 29% slower (if my bad math is correct).

gendoikari87 wrote:
It’s better than a dreadnoght ....

A space marine contemptor dreadnought is 167 points with the multimelta. Now the thermal lance is better than the multimelta, the Armiger is faster and has more wounds. The contemptor has a better WS/BS and everything else is the same as far as we know so far. (Barring the fact that dreadnoughts get chapter tactics) So I don't think it should be less than 167 obviously but anything more than 200 feels equally egregious.

So, a Contemptor with Melta and CCW is 167 as Pina pointed out.

The Contemptor has +1 S, Chapter tactics
The Armigers has +5 M, +2 W, +6" Melta range, D3 shots

So, based on that i would estimate the cost to be around 170-180 - simply because of the additional movement and the better melta weapon.

As soon as we start pushing past this you have to start questioning the point of taking them over Dreadnoughts. Sure, it's cool getting up to 3 in 1 slot, but, why wouldn't you just run them as 3 separate units and claim +3CP?!? (However, if they stay as a unit all game, rather than just for deployment, then it'll take some serious firepower to stop the unit)

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

If I had three tank slots, I would bring three Icarus. There is no situation where I would prefer a Neutron Crawler. Anti-tank should fall to Basilisks, Dragoons, and Kastelan Robots.

Not everyone is running Basilisks. For those folks (myself included), I lean on the Neutronager.

Also, Kastelans sometimes are tied up with priority targets. Dragoons also can't engage across the table or tackle flyers.

In those instances, I am usually happy for my Neutronager. When it shines, it shines bright as heck!

True. I suppose you would need a Neutron Crawler if you don't run Basilisks. But I have found them the indispensable complement to Kastelan Robots.

Neutron Crawlers can't handle flyers as well as Icarus Crawlers. Unless it's a flying brick with no invulnerable save, but those are becoming rare. >_>

I think there's always something Icarus can shoot at now. Assault Marines, Elysians, Battlesuits, Hive Tyrants, Shining Spears, Wave Serpents, Magnus, Mortarion, Celestine... the list goes on.

Suzuteo wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

If I had three tank slots, I would bring three Icarus. There is no situation where I would prefer a Neutron Crawler. Anti-tank should fall to Basilisks, Dragoons, and Kastelan Robots.

Not everyone is running Basilisks. For those folks (myself included), I lean on the Neutronager.

Also, Kastelans sometimes are tied up with priority targets. Dragoons also can't engage across the table or tackle flyers.

In those instances, I am usually happy for my Neutronager. When it shines, it shines bright as heck!

True. I suppose you would need a Neutron Crawler if you don't run Basilisks. But I have found them the indispensable complement to Kastelan Robots.

Neutron Crawlers can't handle flyers as well as Icarus Crawlers. Unless it's a flying brick with no invulnerable save, but those are becoming rare. >_>

I think there's always something Icarus can shoot at now. Assault Marines, Elysians, Battlesuits, Hive Tyrants, Shining Spears, Wave Serpents, Magnus, Mortarion, Celestine... the list goes on.

There is almost always something a Neutronager can shoot at too. Just about any vehicle or MC, really. Invulns make it less great, but it is still a heavy hitter. As much as I would like Bassies, I am hellbent on staying in-faction for the foreseeable future (mostly due to hobby burnout).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kdash wrote:
So, a Contemptor with Melta and CCW is 167 as Pina pointed out.

The Contemptor has +1 S, Chapter tactics
The Armigers has +5 M, +2 W, +6" Melta range, D3 shots

So, based on that i would estimate the cost to be around 170-180 - simply because of the additional movement and the better melta weapon.

As soon as we start pushing past this you have to start questioning the point of taking them over Dreadnoughts. Sure, it's cool getting up to 3 in 1 slot, but, why wouldn't you just run them as 3 separate units and claim +3CP?!? (However, if they stay as a unit all game, rather than just for deployment, then it'll take some serious firepower to stop the unit)

Contemptor has a 5++ invuln at all times. Armiger has an Ion Shield, which is only against shooting attacks. That is a big deal.

Suzuteo wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

If I had three tank slots, I would bring three Icarus. There is no situation where I would prefer a Neutron Crawler. Anti-tank should fall to Basilisks, Dragoons, and Kastelan Robots.

Not everyone is running Basilisks. For those folks (myself included), I lean on the Neutronager.

Also, Kastelans sometimes are tied up with priority targets. Dragoons also can't engage across the table or tackle flyers.

In those instances, I am usually happy for my Neutronager. When it shines, it shines bright as heck!

True. I suppose you would need a Neutron Crawler if you don't run Basilisks. But I have found them the indispensable complement to Kastelan Robots.

Neutron Crawlers can't handle flyers as well as Icarus Crawlers. Unless it's a flying brick with no invulnerable save, but those are becoming rare. >_>

I think there's always something Icarus can shoot at now. Assault Marines, Elysians, Battlesuits, Hive Tyrants, Shining Spears, Wave Serpents, Magnus, Mortarion, Celestine... the list goes on.

It really comes down to your local meta. I see very, very few fliers in my local meta, so much so that I usually bring 3 neutron onagers. That being said, we have a lot of Leeman Ruses, Knights, and Baneblades in our meta, so it's hard to justify bringing the icarus. Now, if I start seeing more fliers in our meta, yes, absolutely.

Now THIS is interesting... 1CP for re-rolls of 1 to hit/1 to shoot, in built cover-save/+1 str (does that mean on the X2 you're doubling out Str 7 models??).

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:


Now THIS is interesting... 1CP for re-rolls of 1 to hit/1 to shoot, in built cover-save/+1 str (does that mean on the X2 you're doubling out Str 7 models??).

This has actually been in our codex since it dropped. Great for adding knights to lists. Knights can even benefit from the "use the top of the damage chart" stratagem, I think.

That isn't a new strategem. We got that in our 'Dex.

Ninja'd.

I mean, the Neutronager does about equal to a Fire Raptor as the Icarus loadout. The Icarus really only helps against shooting Jet Pack stuff with invulnerable saves (so almost universally characters).

I run AdMech with the Custodes. My Hurricane Bolters handle that kind of stuff fine. I use the Neutronagers to, well, neutralize big vehicles and monsters ASAP (plus one Caladius Grav-Tank, here's hoping it gets Power of the Machine Spirit!).

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
That isn't a new strategem. We got that in our 'Dex.

Ninja'd.

How in Gods name did I miss that :(

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:

Now THIS is interesting...

same stratagem in the AdMech codex.

e:f,b

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
That isn't a new strategem. We got that in our 'Dex.

Ninja'd.

How in Gods name did I miss that :(

Because it is pretty bad?

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

It really comes down to your local meta. I see very, very few fliers in my local meta, so much so that I usually bring 3 neutron onagers. That being said, we have a lot of Leeman Ruses, Knights, and Baneblades in our meta, so it's hard to justify bringing the icarus. Now, if I start seeing more fliers in our meta, yes, absolutely.

Sure, but your local meta is your local meta. I can't talk about your local meta with you. We can, however, see what decks are placing Top 8 in tournaments and preparing ourselves for the eventuality of facing these more powerful armies.

Local meta right!

Back to general tactics . Armiger's as always disappointed.

+
1) easier detachment with a knight or even 3 of them.
2) +3 cp we need.
3) get a second choise for antitank with some cc ability
4) good speed and stat line
5) can move shoot with no penalty?
6) some abilities we don't yet know like run charge or smt.

-
1) prolly the cost
2) limited weapons
3) suppose to be able to go cc but again in shield so no fnp or invu in cc making onager again more synergise
4) if it can't fall back and shoot /charge and has no cc invu is like you wasting points for enemy to kill. One more time it's clearly stated this is an assault units and has neither weapon options cc options invu does not have the shroud options or dogma -1 to hit like Dragoons .
5) a dragoon 68 points and an Onagers cost 140 average so 208 pooints with better synergy again we LL question why the h bring a knight over them?
6) spending command points to make this a viable unit while canticels buffs synergy with ad mech again needs to be cp based.

So disappointing what role this unit provides with no fnp or cc invu ?? 14 move when I can inflit a dragoon unit? When we got nice shooters . Do what remove all synergy pay knights cost just to have knights in ad mech for what? We removed knights from list immediately . And their real strength with current meta fall back shoot charge vs horde armies where you really believed we could actually become powerful with icarus Onagers and knights able to deal with almost everything again a unit with a charge role and bad design. Is this armiger cc or shoot oriented . Or just once again send to enemies with absolutely no reason 200+ pooints to kill. Mercy gw mercy once more same crap. Send 2 or 3 expensive units to die tar pited midish slained cc from small cheap chars . Can't fight vs current hordish armies can't run charge can't fall back shoot something wtf.
Seriously wtf wth ad mech ??? Give Onagers ability to from units and use less cp to buff and keep your armiger's ffs!!!

Only way I could possibly see these armigers working is in some kind of hokey brigade scheme where you had a whole lot of CP to spare and could afford to throw 2CP a turn into a 3 Armiger unit. Taking them solo for more CP is a trap. You really want them in 1 UNIT so that way the admech strategems apply to all 3 as a UNIT. It could maybe survive to the second turn thanks to shroudspalm and 4++ if you ran it along side a guard brigade and a mini admech detachment for the strategems. EDIT: drop the admech. Just use the chapter approved strategems on a pack of 3 of them next to your guard brigade. They would be run like Slamguinius does next to guard, except do a bad job.

I still can't get over the 12 wounds thing. 1 more than Onager? Really? And the gun isn't even 2 melta gun shots. For such a great model they really killed its offensive output. Even further, in a meta where no one brings T7 solo models without invulnerable saves ... what is this thing supposed to be good against?

Am I supposed to drop Celestine and slot this thing in her place? It sure as hell can't do her job. Is this thing supposed to be like a really inefficient lump of 3 sydonian dragoons? Why? Is it supposed to be a melee Onager for 80 more points? But without benefiting from Cawl's aura? ARG! GW even pre-nerfed repairing it using all the admech repair strategems.

More ranting. Let's go through some recent opponents. The Armiger is horrendous against Chaos Space Marines. Just the basic space marine list is riddled with 1 wound models that attack in swarms (berzerkers) or have lots of meltas and jump packs (talon dudes). Both of those are hard counters to the Armiger. Eldar. Everything about Eldar pees on the Armiger. From the -1 to be hit, to the move after shooting strategems, to the all the -2, 3 damage attacks, and plentiful invul saves all over the place. And every targetted Eldar psychic power is made for debuffing expensive units. Guard. Guardsmen laugh at this thing. A squad of 10 can plausibly hold this up for 2-4 turns if you wiff a hit roll and wiff a wound a roll. Guard tanks also pee on this thing since it has no negative modifiers, no way to deepstrike, and is only marginally tougher than a leman russ against -2 and -3 firepower. Tyranids. Yeah lol guant swarms and genestealers. This is stupid. EDIT: I forgot tau. Tau have access to all kinds of deepstrike and soon to be 40" movement range melta. And their good models either are single models with invulnerable saves or come in as swarms of drones/bodies.

Where are you guys getting the points total for these things? What do they clock in at?

Ideasweasel wrote:
Where are you guys getting the points total for these things? What do they clock in at?

Well they don't know, these are just embittered predictions made from earlier models with similar roles. Logically (in my opinion) this thing clocks in at 180- maybe a few more points if that's indeed a melta carapace weapon.

I just wish that stupid cannon wasn't d3 shots. Make it assault 2, heck make it assault 1 all I care, I would just like it to have some sort of predictability. Worst part is I'm almost certain there's going to be an upgraded box down the pipeline with a plasma weapon of some kind that's just going to leave this melta loadout in the dust. Main reason I'm getting some is because they'll be cheap and I need more skitarii anyways. I figure worst case scenario I have a kind of crap unit that's fun to paint for casual and demo games for cheap. If the rumored box price is true they'll be stupid cheap cashwise.

If they do end up getting a fleshed out set of options it could be interesting to see what it does if it could take dual melee/shooty arms and perhaps got an option for a battle cannon or punisher style Gatling cannon.

I'd love to see an Armiger holding an avenger gatling cannon in both hands, it would look amazing. Also a purely close combat oriented one with two of those centurion siege drills would look terrifying. BTW, I believe that price is basically confirmed now ($160 US/£95), a couple of sites have listed them at this point afaik.

PiñaColada wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Where are you guys getting the points total for these things? What do they clock in at?

Well they don't know, these are just embittered predictions made from earlier models with similar roles. Logically (in my opinion) this thing clocks in at 180- maybe a few more points if that's indeed a melta carapace weapon.

Cool thanks. I saw people taking about the cost of an onager + dragoon. Was thinking dafuq? Have I missed something

Ideasweasel wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Where are you guys getting the points total for these things? What do they clock in at?

Well they don't know, these are just embittered predictions made from earlier models with similar roles. Logically (in my opinion) this thing clocks in at 180- maybe a few more points if that's indeed a melta carapace weapon.

Cool thanks. I saw people taking about the cost of an onager + dragoon. Was thinking dafuq? Have I missed something

I think that's just because it's a logical cutoff, if it costs more than those two combined then what is the point of this other than rule of cool?

Ah gotcha. Here is hoping they are pointed sensibly

Ideasweasel wrote:
Ah gotcha. Here is hoping they are pointed sensibly

I am betting it won't be. Expect it to be 225pt.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Ah gotcha. Here is hoping they are pointed sensibly

I am betting it won't be. Expect it to be 225pt.

that’s a fair and decent price

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Ah gotcha. Here is hoping they are pointed sensibly

I am betting it won't be. Expect it to be 225pt.

that’s a fair and decent price

Aren’t you the guy who defected over to imperial guard?

Hehe bet now you want them to be as highly pointed as possible eh!

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Ah gotcha. Here is hoping they are pointed sensibly

I am betting it won't be. Expect it to be 225pt.

that’s a fair and decent price

...lol wut?

This is a glorified Contemptor Dreadnought, which with a MM/CCW is only 165pt. For that, you lose 5" movement and 2 wounds, but have an invuln in shooting and close-combat, only 6" less range on the gun, and what looks to be the same CC profile. Sure it is d3 vs 1 shot on the MM, but that invuln is a big deal.

And that being said, people aren't running Contemptors much, are they? Nope. And those are an Elite slot, not a LoW and they get Chapter Tactics, which are pretty much always better than our Canticles (which we get only via a Strategem anyhow!).

225pt for this thing will be pretty overpriced. 185pt would be far closer to fair, since it has the shooting-only invuln, the 20pt for a bit of extra range and sometimes a few more shots of the MM sounds about right.

And even then, I am not planning on using them. Go figure.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

...lol wut?

This is a glorified Contemptor Dreadnought, which with a MM/CCW is only 165pt. For that, you lose 5" movement and 2 wounds, but have an invuln in shooting and close-combat, only 6" less range on the gun, and what looks to be the same CC profile. Sure it is d3 vs 1 shot on the MM, but that invuln is a big deal.

And that being said, people aren't running Contemptors much, are they? Nope. And those are an Elite slot, not a LoW and they get Chapter Tactics, which are pretty much always better than our Canticles (which we get only via a Strategem anyhow!).

225pt for this thing will be pretty overpriced. 185pt would be far closer to fair, since it has the shooting-only invuln, the 20pt for a bit of extra range and sometimes a few more shots of the MM sounds about right.

And even then, I am not planning on using them. Go figure.

The invuln for both shooting and cc is a big deal but the bigger drawback for me is the (almost guaranteed) lower WS/BS. If it had a 2+ then advancing with the thermal spear wouldn't be such a big deal. It also helps with the damage table and all those pesky -1 to hit you'll run into. It'd mitigate the fact that you can't easily reroll ones with it. But anything sub-200 I'll try both of them out for sure.


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gendoikari87 wrote:
that’s a fair and decent price

Out of pure curiosity, how many point do you think a dark reaper should be?

PiñaColada wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Where are you guys getting the points total for these things? What do they clock in at?

Well they don't know, these are just embittered predictions made from earlier models with similar roles. Logically (in my opinion) this thing clocks in at 180- maybe a few more points if that's indeed a melta carapace weapon.

It is. It also has a Heavy Phospher Blaster as an option.

PiñaColada wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

...lol wut?

This is a glorified Contemptor Dreadnought, which with a MM/CCW is only 165pt. For that, you lose 5" movement and 2 wounds, but have an invuln in shooting and close-combat, only 6" less range on the gun, and what looks to be the same CC profile. Sure it is d3 vs 1 shot on the MM, but that invuln is a big deal.

And that being said, people aren't running Contemptors much, are they? Nope. And those are an Elite slot, not a LoW and they get Chapter Tactics, which are pretty much always better than our Canticles (which we get only via a Strategem anyhow!).

225pt for this thing will be pretty overpriced. 185pt would be far closer to fair, since it has the shooting-only invuln, the 20pt for a bit of extra range and sometimes a few more shots of the MM sounds about right.

And even then, I am not planning on using them. Go figure.

The invuln for both shooting and cc is a big deal but the bigger drawback for me is the (almost guaranteed) lower WS/BS. If it had a 2+ then advancing with the thermal spear wouldn't be such a big deal. It also helps with the damage table and all those pesky -1 to hit you'll run into. It'd mitigate the fact that you can't easily reroll ones with it. But anything sub-200 I'll try both of them out for sure.


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gendoikari87 wrote:
that’s a fair and decent price

Out of pure curiosity, how many point do you think a dark reaper should be?

Don't worry, 225 looks even worse when you take a look at the Relic Contemptor at 204 points.

I still maintain a 170-180 point range maybe pushing 185 if you go melta on the carapace. Otherwise, there are just loads of other options that aren't even considered to be competitive themselves that are better.

Kdash wrote:

Don't worry, 225 looks even worse when you take a look at the Relic Contemptor at 204 points.
I still maintain a 170-180 point range maybe pushing 185 if you go melta on the carapace. Otherwise, there are just loads of other options that aren't even considered to be competitive themselves that are better.

I really like the relic contemptor and think it's really good but I avoided that comparison since it's forgeworld and has the relic rule (which is not a big deal but whatever). Even though the chaos version has a worse armour save I'd argue that it's even better than the SM one, and butcher cannons are stupid good in my opinion. It would be sad if the Armiger would end up costing more than the relic contemptor though.

Ideasweasel wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Ah gotcha. Here is hoping they are pointed sensibly

I am betting it won't be. Expect it to be 225pt.

that’s a fair and decent price

Aren’t you the guy who defected over to imperial guard?

Hehe bet now you want them to be as highly pointed as possible eh!

not really I have two forgebane boxes on pre order or will this weekend and a knight waiting for me

Skitarii I’ll beusing as guard and selling the tpd. Backing all this up with some leman russes and scout sentinel

Ah I thought you were the guy who ebay’d his robots etc.

My bad


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gendoikari87 wrote:
well that went better than expected. Onagers and Kastellans sold. officially out of mechanicus.

Oh wait, it was you.

Your out of Admech but can’t stay away from those sweet sweet knights eh.

Ideasweasel wrote:
Ah I thought you were the guy who ebay’d his robots etc.

My bad


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gendoikari87 wrote:
well that went better than expected. Onagers and Kastellans sold. officially out of mechanicus.

Oh wait, it was you.

Your out of Admech but can’t stay away from those sweet sweet knights eh.

I serve the emperor by any name in many ways.

Also I have a thing for mechs. And tanks.

Like I ain’t gonna lie I already picked up zeon decals for the knight and armigers and they’re getting ramba ral colors and the knight gets a red comet paint job

Do you still have dragoons? I love those models. Wish they were cheaper though.

The real comparison would be the Redemptor dreadnaught. I think they both have 12 wounds? The guns are similar, but the Redemptor has more relevant dakka. Both have the same profile in combat. The armiger is faster and has a 5++ to shooting, but the Redemptor has access to real auras, strategems, and chapter tactics. The Redemptor is like 200 points, and is never seen in competitive play because it is bad. Under the GW pointing model, the Armiger should cost a little more than the Redemptor because it has an invul and is faster and is a Lord of War.

Ideasweasel wrote:
Do you still have dragoons? I love those models. Wish they were cheaper though.

never used them. Hate the model. Totally unnecessary unit

Hi all! I'm a fairly new player to ad mech and a long tome lurker of the forum. You are a great community fellow priests!
Regarding the armingers.. Do we know its WS ? I fear that they'll have the same 4+ has my poor fistellans.
Cheers

MrKas wrote:
Hi all! I'm a fairly new player to ad mech and a long tome lurker of the forum. You are a great community fellow priests!
Regarding the armingers.. Do we know its WS ? I fear that they'll have the same 4+ has my poor fistellans.
Cheers

I would guess it is the same as a normal Knight. It isn't a robot, but an actual pilot.

That's what I'm hoping! But they didn't say it on community.. Doubt subsist... We need data

MrKas wrote:
That's what I'm hoping! But they didn't say it on community.. Doubt subsist... We need data

The only stuff we have that shoots at 4+ is stuff that is a Servitor or Robot. Everything mostly human is 3+. I think it is a safe assumption.

Sadly, it won't likely benefit from Cawl and a d3 Multimelta isn't exactly getting me hot and bothered. I'd rather take the Neutronager pretty much always.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

MrKas wrote:
That's what I'm hoping! But they didn't say it on community.. Doubt subsist... We need data

The only stuff we have that shoots at 4+ is stuff that is a Servitor or Robot. Everything mostly human is 3+. I think it is a safe assumption.

Sadly, it won't likely benefit from Cawl and a d3 Multimelta isn't exactly getting me hot and bothered. I'd rather take the Neutronager pretty much always.

I'll still prefer my neutronagers too but the rule of cool demands that we try our best to find a niche for the armigers. Failing so far. Their role overlap soo much with with what we already have.. It's frustrating.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

MrKas wrote:
That's what I'm hoping! But they didn't say it on community.. Doubt subsist... We need data

The only stuff we have that shoots at 4+ is stuff that is a Servitor or Robot. Everything mostly human is 3+. I think it is a safe assumption.

Sadly, it won't likely benefit from Cawl and a d3 Multimelta isn't exactly getting me hot and bothered. I'd rather take the Neutronager pretty much always.

What would get you hot and bothered?

Ideasweasel wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

MrKas wrote:
That's what I'm hoping! But they didn't say it on community.. Doubt subsist... We need data

The only stuff we have that shoots at 4+ is stuff that is a Servitor or Robot. Everything mostly human is 3+. I think it is a safe assumption.

Sadly, it won't likely benefit from Cawl and a d3 Multimelta isn't exactly getting me hot and bothered. I'd rather take the Neutronager pretty much always.

What would get you hot and bothered?

In context of this new baby knight? Not much. It doesn't fit in a role we can't already fill.

We need transports, flyers and some other rules fleshed out for existing models before we need this nonsense.

Okay stop with the WE business. Knights are not expressly mechanicus. They exist outside the mechanicus too. So the Armiger is filling a ton of roles

gendoikari87 wrote:
Okay stop with the WE business. Knights are not expressly mechanicus. They exist outside the mechanicus too. So the Armiger is filling a ton of roles

We aren't talking about other armies, we are talking about AdMech.

That being said, do enlighten me to a faction that will benefit from them? Marines have Dreads. IG has better options. I just don't see a need for these anywhere.

Wulfey wrote:
The real comparison would be the Redemptor dreadnaught. I think they both have 12 wounds? The guns are similar, but the Redemptor has more relevant dakka. Both have the same profile in combat. The armiger is faster and has a 5++ to shooting, but the Redemptor has access to real auras, strategems, and chapter tactics. The Redemptor is like 200 points, and is never seen in competitive play because it is bad. Under the GW pointing model, the Armiger should cost a little more than the Redemptor because it has an invul and is faster and is a Lord of War.

The Redemptor has +1 strength +1 wound and without the pod, can cost as little as 191 points for the plasma. The plasma gun and gatling and stormbolters far outclass the melta lance. The Redemptor fist is also D6 damage, so has a higher "average" damage output than the flat 3 of the Knight. The Relic Contemptor is a better starting point as it has more similarities than the Redemptor does in terms of weapon loadout and already has the 5++ costed in. The point still remains - if these are 200+ points, they just aren't worth it compared to everything else.


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 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Okay stop with the WE business. Knights are not expressly mechanicus. They exist outside the mechanicus too. So the Armiger is filling a ton of roles

We aren't talking about other armies, we are talking about AdMech.

That being said, do enlighten me to a faction that will benefit from them? Marines have Dreads. IG has better options. I just don't see a need for these anywhere.

So, personally for me, my intention was running them with Custodes, if they were around the 150-170 mark. (well, when i say Custodes i obv mean soup ) Essentially it'd be 1000 points of supreme command Custodes, ~450-500 points of these high str "hopefully tank hunting" Knights and then a Guard battalion. All in all, the idea would give me 10 CP to play with (12 if you go for Creed - another option is Marines for Scouts and Librarians), and covers off some of the weaknesses of Custodes - namely limited long range high str weaponry, and limited ability to get CP. (list restriction of max of 1 each detachment)

However, as it stands, i'm not convinced. Hopefully they will release an all dakka version with a similar price range, but i think i'm being optimistic there. Everything will depend on the points and options.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

MrKas wrote:
That's what I'm hoping! But they didn't say it on community.. Doubt subsist... We need data

The only stuff we have that shoots at 4+ is stuff that is a Servitor or Robot. Everything mostly human is 3+. I think it is a safe assumption.

Sadly, it won't likely benefit from Cawl and a d3 Multimelta isn't exactly getting me hot and bothered. I'd rather take the Neutronager pretty much always.

What would get you hot and bothered?

In context of this new baby knight? Not much. It doesn't fit in a role we can't already fill.

We need transports, flyers and some other rules fleshed out for existing models before we need this nonsense.

Oh machine god! A flier would be awesome, even if the rules were terrible if the model looked cool enough I would be sold. Could imagine some pretty funky things. Shame there isn’t any forgeworld ones is there


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gendoikari87 wrote:
Okay stop with the WE business. Knights are not expressly mechanicus. They exist outside the mechanicus too. So the Armiger is filling a ton of roles

I think ‘we’ works fine. This is an Admech forum thread unless I’ve taken a wrong turn at the last checkpoint

Entirely possible it’s been a long day

Yeah I guess the Contemptor is a better starting point. That is pathetic. I really want to like those armigers. I have 3 big knights. It would be cool to run mini knights. But yeah their stats really are just some kind of half assed contemptor.

Ideasweasel wrote:

Oh machine god! A flier would be awesome, even if the rules were terrible if the model looked cool enough I would be sold. Could imagine some pretty funky things. Shame there isn’t any forgeworld ones is there

I mean there is the quite nurgle-looking vultarax.. https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-SE/Mechanicum-Vultarax-Stratos-Automata
I also like the look of the drill they just teased yesterday and all the suggestions that if you're brave enough you can saw that thing in half and get two (one emerging & one descending)


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Kdash wrote:

The Redemptor has +1 strength +1 wound and without the pod, can cost as little as 191 points for the plasma. The plasma gun and gatling and stormbolters far outclass the melta lance. The Redemptor fist is also D6 damage, so has a higher "average" damage output than the flat 3 of the Knight. The Relic Contemptor is a better starting point as it has more similarities than the Redemptor does in terms of weapon loadout and already has the 5++ costed in. The point still remains - if these are 200+ points, they just aren't worth it compared to everything else.

Yeah but the relic contemptor also has a 6+++ FNP, which maybe isn't a huge deal but I feel that the fairest comparison is a normal contemptor beefed up 10%.

PiñaColada wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:

Oh machine god! A flier would be awesome, even if the rules were terrible if the model looked cool enough I would be sold. Could imagine some pretty funky things. Shame there isn’t any forgeworld ones is there

I mean there is the quite nurgle-looking vultarax.. https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-SE/Mechanicum-Vultarax-Stratos-Automata
I also like the look of the drill they just teased yesterday and all the suggestions that if you're brave enough you can saw that thing in half and get two (one emerging & one descending)

Oh yeah I forgot about those, although I had in mind something beefier or even a flying transport vehicle

Icarus crawlers bring a flavor of shooting that guard doesn't have. Guard doens't have access to high BS anti flier shooting. And icarus can get that +2 to hit strategem when you really need that eldar unit hit. If you have a guard brigade, 3x crawlers and a TPD or enginseer covers bases that guard cant match.

Agreed. My army is built around Cawlstar, Basilisks, Icarus Crawlers, and Dragoons. All of these things complement one another in some way. Cawlstar handles virtually anything; Basilisk handles hidden enemies; Icarus Crawlers handle enemy mobile units; and Dragoons create backfield pressure and act as counter-chargers.

https://goo.gl/NZhsMf

Knights with moar dakka.

And holy @#$%. Plastic Sisters?!

...in 2019

Suzuteo wrote:
https://goo.gl/NZhsMf

Knights with moar dakka.

And holy @#$%. Plastic Sisters?!

...in 2019

Pumped for a real Knight Codex. They better fix the points too. I have so many just sitting around because they aren't viable in 8th.

I have two kits just gathering dust because I am not sure if I want to sell them or not. I guess I can wait a little longer...

Hopefully the new knights codex will have some questor mechanicus rules.

Interesting the knight has a 1000% upscaled plasma calliver. No idea if it's profile will mirror it's smaller skitarii cousin but just found that interesting they went with that design compared to the newer "I can't believe it's not Tau!" design the primaris dread got

Looks like I will be splitting my cash between two armies. Shame there isn’t a sensible way to run Admech and knights in games 2k or below

 kastelen wrote:
Hopefully the new knights codex will have some questor mechanicus rules.

Or just good rules overall so I can run some Knights in 40k and not just 30k.

They need to all drop by quite a bit in points to be doable though. Fitting 5 Knights at 2k should be doable without losing potency. But GW seems incapable of pricing big stuff properly, so I am not holding my breath.

It'll be about 800 pts and it'll have base knight stats. It'll be awsome, trust me

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
It'll be about 800 pts and it'll have base knight stats. It'll be awsome, trust me

We are all so salty here. I can't imagine why!

Went through all major tournaments of march. Wow. AdMech are DONE. Dead. Deathwatch levels of dead.

yes they're staying on my shelf until a good team tournament where they can do well

They're fine in more casual settings though, really. You still have to think for a good list, but you can use more than Cawl and Robots at least. Not Ruststalkers and Servitors though, I still wonder why Servitors still exist at this point. Even a Cherubim is more useful.

But it's true I'm tired of the current state of AdMech too, I started painting my Dark Angels successors to get them some games. There's way more viable lists one can build with this faction.

9 days left for the March FAQ. I'm betting they'll release it alongside the T'au FAQ.

GW said March FAQ is ready and waiting until Adepticon finishes.

Oh nice, when does it end ?

 Aaranis wrote:
Oh nice, when does it end ?

Sunday. might be a few days later ofc.

So the new mega knight. Going to idly speculate here. 36 wounds. T8. Overcharging plasmacannon and a weaker shadowsword volcano cannon. 4 meltas/stubbers, 4 autocannons. 800 points. It can take a warlord trait and I think you can fish a relic for it. Probably give it a relic, but save the WLT for a CP recycler or the admech +1 to reparis. What do you bring with the new mega knight?

Scouts, because that thing can still die to a deepstrike berserker charge. So if you can't put distance between mega melee units, then your knight will die. That makes slamguinius and a battalion an attractive option.

Stygies spearhead? A NECROMECHANIC admech enginseer and 3 icarus onagers can provide some pie plate screens and anti flier firepower along with the possibility of 4hp repaired per turn. Maybe even a battalion with some min cost troops and some dragoons.

So 800 points of knight. 600 points of blood angels. 600 points of admech. It would play like a shadowsword list.

36 wounds? Are you daft?

Do you really think it needs more wounds than a Warhound Titan has at 1500 points?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
36 wounds? Are you daft?

Do you really think it needs more wounds than a Warhound Titan has at 1500 points?

That seems a bit harsh. But I do agree with you about the wounds, I'm guessing 28 wounds. Comparing it to the previous knights and how tall they look next to the armigers I don't think it's much taller, but the shoulders are broader

It has extra plates. Armiger = 12. Knight = 24. Super knight = 36. It is so tall it has 2 reactors where the other knight has 1. It has side plates the other knight doesn't. Anything less than 30 would be a letdown.

Wulfey wrote:
It has extra plates. Armiger = 12. Knight = 24. Super knight = 36. It is so tall it has 2 reactors where the other knight has 1. It has side plates the other knight doesn't. Anything less than 30 would be a letdown.

Judging by current knight rules that sounds like under 30 wounds has been confirmed to me

He'll have knight stats with a 6+++ :p
And it'll cost 800.
SOLD. /s

One thing to remember for the Armigers is that we don't know what sorta bonus they'll get for being in a pure Knight detachment.

Granted I'm sure it won't help THAT much but this IS the rough draft, so to speak.

Adepticon: we cracked top 50! yay..........
pure admech Dunecrawler spam and cawlbots + custodes

Adepticon's terrain is sparse. That probably helps.

Top 50 is nothing to boast about :p

I wouldn't really call it pure admech if you sprinkled some custodes in there though. How many players are at adepticon?
Also, I still really don't think the Castellan is 36 wounds, 28-30 wounds with a 6+++ sounds more believable.

It's 2 different dudes: 47 and 48. One pure, one custodes
Adepticon is like 250 something.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
It's 2 different dudes: 47 and 48. One pure, one custodes
Adepticon is like 250 something.

who is the dude and what are the lists exactly? Custodes admech list is my go to atm as well.

cawlbots + custodes captains. Go look up Adepticon in Best Coast Pairings. It's free

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
cawlbots + custodes captains. Go look up Adepticon in Best Coast Pairings. It's free

I know but without posting the lists here there is nothing to talk about and since i am on my phone i would like someone to upload them. The stygies Mars custodes list is almost exactly my tournament list sans culexus and kurlovs commander.

In 46th currently – (WWLW)


In 47th currently – (LWWW)



There are other lists containing Dunecrawlers (if i remember correctly) but these are the only 2 lists in the top 50 classed as "Cult Mechanicus".

That pure admech list has some surprising stuff in it imo. Three TPD and ruststalkers? The rest of it I can see it's purpose but are all three TPD really necessary, I'm guessing he wants a big reroll 1 bubble but surely you can save yourself some points and switch out at least one of them for an enginseer..? And the ruststalkers are certainly not the most obvious choice either. I do like the basic idea of the list though and it's nice to see pure admech being able to go over 0.500

Well it doesn't mean the list is perfect. Far from it. It'd be better without the ruststalkers and TPDs. I can see somewhat when using all the TPDs. Enginseers literally do nothing. TPD does... something. More autas to go around, he can shoot and sometimes do some mortal wounds, he can put up a fight in CC, he's durable vs 0 ap anti-horde stuff when people are full of them.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Well it doesn't mean the list is perfect. Far from it. It'd be better without the ruststalkers and TPDs. I can see somewhat when using all the TPDs. Enginseers literally do nothing. TPD does... something. More autas to go around, he can shoot and sometimes do some mortal wounds, he can put up a fight in CC, he's durable vs 0 ap anti-horde stuff when people are full of them.

Sure, but does it do more than an enginseer and 78 points worth of other stuff? If you don't run Mars then one TPD seems like an obvious choice, maybe even two, but I'd argue that there's a real point of dimishing returns after that.

If you're running Stygies, you need to bring a TPD, and you need to be able to move. This means Ballistarii, Dragoon, and Dunecrawler spam. Not surprised by the list at all. My old Stygies detachment used 2/2 Neutron/Icarus Crawlers to good effect.

He definitely should lose the Ruststalkers and extra Dominuses for more Dragoons though. I mean, MAYBE two Dominuses to allow your Crawlers to split up. (It can be hard to cover 6 Crawlers with a 6" bubble.)

The pure list is very conventional in terms of what many of us here consider competitive.

In fact, is that linds14sr20det's list? I remember advising against the Fistelans in his last tourney. His most recent list looked very similar to this. I recommended that he choose between Dragoons or Custodes, then pick up anti-infantry or anti-tank, respectively.

Is it though?
Data-Tether? Special weapons on skitarii? 10 man squads?
It just seems so random.

On a side note, if the rumors concerning Company Commanders being limited to one, not to mention Infantry going to 5, are true, I may do something like this:

May consider cutting a Dragoon and both Crawlers, downgrade the Vanguard to Rangers, for 3x Basilisk and a Master of Ordnance though. Might be a more efficient setup.

So what houses will be in the knight codex?

gendoikari87 wrote:
So what houses will be in the knight codex?

The stock ones, most likely: Terryn, Hawkshroud, Taranis, Raven, Cadmus

Plus, hopefully Gerantius and the Obsidian Knight along with some generic stuff for Freeblades.

As for the new Knight, keep in mind the Acastus, folks. Looking at the new Knight, I have my doubts it is much larger than a stock Knight. It certainly won't be on par with the Acastus, which is T9 30W.

I expect T8 26W tops.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Top 50 is nothing to boast about :p

yes it is.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
cawlbots + custodes captains. Go look up Adepticon in Best Coast Pairings. It's free

I think the app is broken cause I have a log in and when I try to view lists it tells me I have to be a premium member

I’m having trouble deciding between House Terryn and house Cadmus


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Terryn lets me show off my airbrush work more though... and is also red white and blue

gendoikari87 wrote:
I’m having trouble deciding between House Terryn and house Cadmus


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Terryn lets me show off my airbrush work more though... and is also red white and blue

Cadmus is green with yellow, red and black. To me, that is gorgeous. I've done Terryn and wasn't thrilled by the end. The most fun was the bone color areas for heraldry. But Cadmus has more variables for their stuff per the old Companion that I find more visually interesting.

Hawkshroud is the big one though for "look at how well I can airbrush", because yellow, black and red.

I'm going to wait and see what rules they toss out, but I am a House Raven player... which means those will be awful. Like my Metalica army. I'm not salty!

 axisofentropy wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Top 50 is nothing to boast about :p

yes it is.

Not in this tournament lol. 3 wins 1 loss is not something to write home about. 5:1 would be a different story.