You don't take biovores for their damage output only. You take them for board control and their sniping potential.


Their damage is fine against models that pay a prime for durability, but they also block movement paths and force your opponents to waste gunfire on spores instead of on your army. Since they don't need LOS to fire they aren't easy to get rid of either.

Its not just 1 MW, its movement denials too and they are not 40pts they are 36pts.

Edit: Didnt see page 81, what @Eihnlazer said

Also also, biovores are difficult to kill. A single biovore can easily hide out of sight and continue to do it's job every single turn. Hit or miss, it'll have an impact on the game. They can hold an objective for you and deny a small corner of your deployment zone to deep strikers, while slowly but steadily dealing damage or preventing movement/wasting enemy fire. They have 4 wounds, so they don't die easily even if someone manages to spot a sliver of one.

There's plenty of tricks you can do with the missed spore mines too. Last game (detailed a couple pages ago in a battle report), I purposely moved all 6 biovores so they had a higher chance of missing. I shot them at a random unit that was screening a character. This character was on a hill. I placed 4 spore mines behind that hill where nothing could see them unless they moved to see them, and they were close enough to the character that he would be hit by all 4 spore mines and die next turn unless he wasted a whole unit's movement and shooting to take them out. This is the kind of utility that wins games and for a very cheap price. That was on turn 1. They continued raining down Mortal Wounds for 5 more turns and only 1 died.

What's the consensus on Mawlocs? Have not used them but tempted to drop a Flyrant to field 2 of them. How have you guys been using them and how many? What's everyones recommended Have Fleet?

 Odrankt wrote:
What's the consensus on Mawlocs? Have not used them but tempted to drop a Flyrant to field 2 of them. How have you guys been using them and how many? What's everyones recommended Have Fleet?

They are not great.

That being said. They get better if you take 4+ of them.

They are one of the cheapest T6 3+.

They make good road blocks, and can block advancing armies for a turn.

They can cheap on number of deepstriking, by deploying on board and then burrowing.

 Odrankt wrote:
What's the consensus on Mawlocs? Have not used them but tempted to drop a Flyrant to field 2 of them. How have you guys been using them and how many? What's everyones recommended Have Fleet?

Why mawloc when you can Biovore?

Biovores put out similar damage output to a mawloc at a third of the price and are much more flexible and reliable.

Unless you desperately want a monstrous creature(a poor one offensively) in the back field they are just not really worth it.

Sneggy wrote:

 Odrankt wrote:
What's the consensus on Mawlocs? Have not used them but tempted to drop a Flyrant to field 2 of them. How have you guys been using them and how many? What's everyones recommended Have Fleet?

Why mawloc when you can Biovore?

Biovores put out similar damage output to a mawloc at a third of the price and are much more flexible and reliable.

Unless you desperately want a monstrous creature(a poor one offensively) in the back field they are just not really worth it.

Tried Biovores at a tournament 3 weeks ago and they didn't preform all that well tbh. I never got 1st turn so they were usually shot up 1st if people where able to aim and anytime a spore was set up instead of inflicting MW my opponents just shot them up.

I only own 3 Biovores but I have 4 Mawlocs and for 104pts they look pretty decent. Able to Deep strike within 2" of enemy units. I had a terrible time against Eldar due to all my opponents leaving no area for my to deepstrike in. Even if the Mawloc can't charge the turn it appears it could still be a good distraction or soak up some wounds from enemy fire.

Besides Biovores and Mawlocs, anything else I could take that will generally give me Mortal wounds, good toughness and either good shooting or Melee? I don't have access to a Sporocyst so don't think that Is an option.

Mawlocs are the greatest distraction carnifex in the game. Nothing elicits an unnecessary amount of firepower like a giant monster 2 inches from all their backfield stuff. Just accept that if you only take one, it’s dead. Don’t upgrade it. Don’t even bother with the 1-point toxin sacs.

 Odrankt wrote:

Sneggy wrote:

 Odrankt wrote:
What's the consensus on Mawlocs? Have not used them but tempted to drop a Flyrant to field 2 of them. How have you guys been using them and how many? What's everyones recommended Have Fleet?

Why mawloc when you can Biovore?

Biovores put out similar damage output to a mawloc at a third of the price and are much more flexible and reliable.

Unless you desperately want a monstrous creature(a poor one offensively) in the back field they are just not really worth it.

Tried Biovores at a tournament 3 weeks ago and they didn't preform all that well tbh. I never got 1st turn so they were usually shot up 1st if people where able to aim and anytime a spore was set up instead of inflicting MW my opponents just shot them up.

I only own 3 Biovores but I have 4 Mawlocs and for 104pts they look pretty decent. Able to Deep strike within 2" of enemy units. I had a terrible time against Eldar due to all my opponents leaving no area for my to deepstrike in. Even if the Mawloc can't charge the turn it appears it could still be a good distraction or soak up some wounds from enemy fire.

Besides Biovores and Mawlocs, anything else I could take that will generally give me Mortal wounds, good toughness and either good shooting or Melee? I don't have access to a Sporocyst so don't think that Is an option.

Your going to encounter the 'nowhere good to put them' problem more and more as people realise what they do.

If your opponents were shooting your biovores off before they did anything it means a few things:
1; either you didn't hide them properly or your tables dont have enough terrain to hide them in.
2; your opponent has hyper mobility and you didn't screen properly.

Biovores are a lot harder to block than mawlocs, thats for sure.

Mortal wound generation for Tyranids:
smite, psychic scream, exploding creatures (not great since its low chance and means you lost something), biovores, mawlocs, meiotic spores, mucolid spores, spore mines, malanthrope/similar poison auras, maleceptor bubble smite thing

Generally the stuff that does mortal wounds isnt great at doing much else (except the smite/psychic scream on broodlords/flyrants/swarmlord. Who all pay a premium for being dual purpose.)

With Biovores try things like placing the spore mines out of line of sight, or in positions where people have to move the wrong way to dispatch them. Whilst yes they can generate mortal wounds you can also ruin peoples game plans with them. Put them so people have to fall back towards them, or so people cant fall back at all.
Interfere with targetting priorities/charge lanes/moving towards objectives by dropping spores there.
Theres a very good argument that biovores are substantially better when they miss their targets.

I'm only running 3 atm (waiting on delivery of 3 more) as 3 units of 1 and I'm seriously impressed with them.

 Badablack wrote:
Mawlocs are the greatest distraction carnifex in the game. Nothing elicits an unnecessary amount of firepower like a giant monster 2 inches from all their backfield stuff. Just accept that if you only take one, it’s dead. Don’t upgrade it. Don’t even bother with the 1-point toxin sacs.

Yeah was going to leave them as they are just cause it seems like the would not survive from focus fire if I was to bring 1-2. I am tempted to drop a GSC Leman Russ (Running GSC/Nids) to gain another 2 of them. 4 monster deepstriking within 2" of my enemy units does not sound like a fun time for them. Especially when the enemy units take MW when they deepstrike.

The problem is you cant stack up those mortal wounds on the same units much (specifically hidden characters) as the mawlocs have to be 6" away from each other.

Doing in en masse is sure to look threatening and maybe at the cheap cost its worthwhile as a distraction. Not convinced on their actual input aside from distraction though. Requires experimentation. Let us know how it goes with multiples.

@Sneggy

That's a good point. I did notice that all my opponents made anti-deepstrking spaces for only 9"drops though. I would imagine that for the 1st 3 games I could use the Mawlocs as planned before word spreads around and I'm up against people who can counter their ability.

They Biovores where subject to guns that didn't need Loss to be shot, dealth Mortal wounds from my Russ's exploring due to using them for LoS Blocking, lack of 3" or taller terrain.

They did play in 2 out of the 5 games but just didn't preform how I wanted. I probably didn't optimise their ability all that well but I suppose you can't learn from mistakes if you don't make them.

Using the spore as a way to prevent people from Falling back from combat so that they don't get dealth Mortal Wounds sound like a great idea. I was usually moving them towards objectives or tight spaces e.g between 2 buildings. To prevent my opponents movement and to stop them from scoring more points. Especially late game where every objective was worth 3VPs. It worked but I'd didnt star doing this until the end of my 3rd game.

My idea for the Mawlocs though is to just deploy turn one, deal all their mortal wounds, distract my opponents from firing at my Russ, Flyrants and Gstealers and any that survived will just burrow away and Deploy them again the next time they can.

I have a nifty guide on how to make Biovores from converted Warriors/Carnifex Claws. I own a Metal Biovores and 2 Warriors conversion and they are ideantical in size. I can show you a pic if you interested in the result?

The Mawlocs are only for distraction to be honest. 104pts for T6, 3+ save, chance of dealing mortal wounds Everytime they DS and they deal MW per unit within 2" of the Mawlocs DSing. I didn't even look at their attacks or anything so if they actually get into combat and did damage that would be a bonus. The plan is the deploy them in opponents corners and middle of their back board so it would look like I'm "encircling" them in Nids and their allies. Even if not effective it would be pretty thematic imo.

Hi,
don't know if you guys remember me, I had a little fight with necrons... which I won by points. By 5 VP. But I only had ony model left in the end, and the necron guy had a fair control.
I hate Imortals with tesla and "My will be done" which add 2 extra hit with 5+

But with that in mind, a fresh barely victory I am looking into the Carnifexes - and especially Old One Eye.

His Alpha Leader gives him +1 to all hit rolls - then this should stack with his Beserk Rampage so that 5+ is in fact an additional attack

When I read the 1dchan of tyranids, they haven't connected these two abilites, but it's well know that aura effects also applies to the one who gives the effect.

Do you guys agree? Beserk Rampage at 5+? and any other +1's to hit would lower the dice roll needed for Beserk Rampage.

Just thought this should be noted in the 4dchan of tyranids.

Second question: If I have a vanilla Carnifex and I equip him with 2 pairs of dakka, so he has no CC weapons - then he would fight with his profile STR and no modifiers - basically claws and teeth?

NidsNidsNids wrote:

His Alpha Leader gives him +1 to all hit rolls - then this should stack with his Beserk Rampage so that 5+ is in fact an additional attack

...

Do you guys agree? Beserk Rampage at 5+? and any other +1's to hit would lower the dice roll needed for Beserk Rampage.

...

Second question: If I have a vanilla Carnifex and I equip him with 2 pairs of dakka, so he has no CC weapons - then he would fight with his profile STR and no modifiers - basically claws and teeth?

1) Yes, Old One Eye gets extra attacks on a 5+ (barring any negative modifiers to hit). If he charges, then that changes to a 4+ (Immortal Battering Ram).

2) Yes, Pg 183 of the Rulebook, under 4. Choose Melee Weapon. It's worth mentioning that if you are equipping the Carnifex with Devourers, there is some debate over equipping it with the Acid Maw over the Enhanced Senses, due to the sheer volume of shots from the Devourers.

 Odrankt wrote:
What's the consensus on Mawlocs? Have not used them but tempted to drop a Flyrant to field 2 of them. How have you guys been using them and how many? What's everyones recommended Have Fleet?

Not sure on the overall consensus, but I like them in Jormungandr tunnel lists.

1. Mawlocs can start on the table to allow more units access to the tunnel network, then use burrow on the first turn to join up with the rest of the deep striking units (ideally behind the enemy to make it harder to fall back).
2. Mawlocs offer another potential emergence point for units hidden in the tunnel networks if needed, and can in theory deliver multiple units in a game due to their burrow ability (assuming they tunneled in turn 1, burrowed turn 2, and came back turn 3).
3. Jormungandr's trait synergizes perfectly with the Mawloc's role as disruption, giving it a 2+ armor against shooting makes it even more obnoxious to remove after it performs a Terror from the Deep attack.
4. Jormungandr tends to be fairly CP hungry due to their stratagem so they generally want a Brigade and Mawlocs are a fairly inexpensive way to fill Heavy Support slots (cheapest is Biovores, but they don't have as much synergy with Jormungandr as the Mawloc does).


Also is worth noting, while they aren't exactly melee powerhouses Mawlocs do get a surprising number of attacks (9 total, 7 base, 1 for tail, 1 bonus for multiple scything talons).

I love Mawlocs, i normally use 2, but i take them not just for Damage, but as forward threats with my Genestealers and HT's.

Hoping for some help on list choosing. I'm building up in an escalation league and need to make the final purchases to get to 2000 points. I'm debating betwen two list ideas but haven't been able to decide which one will work better.

List 1: Brigade with multiple popup threats:


List2: Batt + 2 specailty formations, focusing on bigger targets in hope of threat saturation



Any advice?

 Odrankt wrote:

Sneggy wrote:

 Odrankt wrote:
What's the consensus on Mawlocs? Have not used them but tempted to drop a Flyrant to field 2 of them. How have you guys been using them and how many? What's everyones recommended Have Fleet?

Why mawloc when you can Biovore?

Biovores put out similar damage output to a mawloc at a third of the price and are much more flexible and reliable.

Unless you desperately want a monstrous creature(a poor one offensively) in the back field they are just not really worth it.

Tried Biovores at a tournament 3 weeks ago and they didn't preform all that well tbh. I never got 1st turn so they were usually shot up 1st if people where able to aim and anytime a spore was set up instead of inflicting MW my opponents just shot them up.

I only own 3 Biovores but I have 4 Mawlocs and for 104pts they look pretty decent. Able to Deep strike within 2" of enemy units. I had a terrible time against Eldar due to all my opponents leaving no area for my to deepstrike in. Even if the Mawloc can't charge the turn it appears it could still be a good distraction or soak up some wounds from enemy fire.

Besides Biovores and Mawlocs, anything else I could take that will generally give me Mortal wounds, good toughness and either good shooting or Melee? I don't have access to a Sporocyst so don't think that Is an option.

What hive fleet did you play? I imagine Kronos Mawlocs againt eldar or Deamons and pop the 1 die pysker spell stratagem.

I've found the Kronos stratagem to be somewhat overrated. Against a Psyker army you'd have better luck with a Kronos warlord, though, because failed powers can really hurt. But again, this is so situational.

I'm looking more into the 6+ FNP. Our usable stuff is either in droves or has lots of wounds. A list with 6 tyrants gets effectively an extra tyrant with the 6+ FNP. My current playstyle and list is built around Kraken, but if i was making a monster based list, i would strongly consider Leviathan.

Even if your opponent successfully screens, the fact that they did so means the Matlock forced them to react. That’s something. The larger the game gets, the more marginal the cost is on a single Maslow it and the greater the number of drops your opponent changes to avoid it. Also my autocorrect is clearly more interested in Derbyshire and psychologists than Xenos tremors worms

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 Odrankt wrote:
What's the consensus on Mawlocs? Have not used them but tempted to drop a Flyrant to field 2 of them. How have you guys been using them and how many? What's everyones recommended Have Fleet?

Not sure on the overall consensus, but I like them in Jormungandr tunnel lists.

1. Mawlocs can start on the table to allow more units access to the tunnel network, then use burrow on the first turn to join up with the rest of the deep striking units (ideally behind the enemy to make it harder to fall back).
2. Mawlocs offer another potential emergence point for units hidden in the tunnel networks if needed, and can in theory deliver multiple units in a game due to their burrow ability (assuming they tunneled in turn 1, burrowed turn 2, and came back turn 3).
3. Jormungandr's trait synergizes perfectly with the Mawloc's role as disruption, giving it a 2+ armor against shooting makes it even more obnoxious to remove after it performs a Terror from the Deep attack.
4. Jormungandr tends to be fairly CP hungry due to their stratagem so they generally want a Brigade and Mawlocs are a fairly inexpensive way to fill Heavy Support slots (cheapest is Biovores, but they don't have as much synergy with Jormungandr as the Mawloc does).


Also is worth noting, while they aren't exactly melee powerhouses Mawlocs do get a surprising number of attacks (9 total, 7 base, 1 for tail, 1 bonus for multiple scything talons).

Can Mawlocs deploy other units? I thought it was only the Trygon that was able to deploy Infantry keyword units when it tunnels to the surface?

Jormungandr Mawlocs sound pretty neat only issue is that they will be in the same Detachment as Genestealers so I'll need a Hive Fleet that benefits everyone. I could use an AM Detachment to use Grand Strategist to gain a CP on a 5+. That would probably help out with you eating Into your CPs.only issue is that your GSC detachment would be tax. I don't intend on my Mawlocs getting into CC or lasting long enough to get the option to. If they get into CC it's just another way for mean to deal wounds.

@Dynas

I was using Kraken because of my units of Genestealers. I think Kronos would be a waste on Mawlocs due to no guns and the Stratagem is only a once per turn Stratgem. If it lasted till the next pyskic phase then it be more tempting.

Yes but its 1CP and they still need to be 9" away. It is used to place units in DS so a Lictor can redirect that DSing unit, so for 2CP you can have a Mawloc act as a Pod and still do damage while redirecting the unit onto a Lictor LOL.

I did that with a 30man Devilgant unit.

Edit: Want to note, I dont think its worth doing at all and is a waste of CP

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Yes but its 1CP and they still need to be 9" away. It is used to place units in DS so a Lictor can redirect that DSing unit, so for 2CP you can have a Mawloc act as a Pod and still do damage while redirecting the unit onto a Lictor LOL.

I did that with a 30man Devilgant unit.

Edit: Want to note, I dont think its worth doing at all and is a waste of CP

You can't do that. The FAQ restricted this use of Pheremone Trail.

It said for Genestealer If i remember, i'll dbl check


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Page 119 – Pheromone Trail
Add the following sentence:
‘You cannot use this Stratagem to affect a unit of
reinforcements being set up by the Genestealer’s
Infestation ability, or that are added to your army due to
a unit’s ability.’"

 Amishprn86 wrote:
It said for Genestealer If i remember, i'll dbl check


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Page 119 – Pheromone Trail
Add the following sentence:
‘You cannot use this Stratagem to affect a unit of
reinforcements being set up by the Genestealer’s
Infestation ability, or that are added to your army due to
a unit’s ability.’"

In the same FAQ:

Q: When a unit is set up in a locale other than the battlefield, can they change that locale (other than to be set up on the battlefield)? For example, if a unit is set up ‘within the tunnels’ as part of The Enemy Below, must they be set up on the battlefield following that Stratagem, or can they be set up in another fashion?
A: They cannot change their locale. In the example, they can only be set up on the battlefield following the conditions of The Enemy Below.

Well thats completely stupid, i played it before the FAQ so i didnt remember fully. I've been using Imperial lately for a Doubles tournament in march.

So they just dont want Nids to use Lictors lol.

Yeah, Lictors are marginally viable in Narrative and Open scenarios where you're allowed free reserves, and weak elsewhere. Even Deathleaper is just a minimum size Tactical Squad with rubbish guns and a fancy sword. Maybe the spring FAQ wave will rewrite PT to work like Jorm stratagem.

Yeah. the FAQ killed lictors and 2 or 3 of our stratagems. The other one i like was metabolic overdrive with catalyst to charge. Cant do that anymore either. I mean come on. At least let me charge and on a 6+ i take a wound. Just extend the stratagem wouldn't be that hard.

 Odrankt wrote:

Can Mawlocs deploy other units? I thought it was only the Trygon that was able to deploy Infantry keyword units when it tunnels to the surface?

Not innately, but the Enemy Below stratagem allows Jormungandr infantry units to be put into the tunnel network and emerge alongside a tunneling unit (Raveners, Mawlocs, Trygons). While Mawlocs ideally want to use their Terror from the Deep ability, they are perfectly viable targets to bring in units with if required.

Also note that the Trygon can only deliver units with the TROOPS battlefield role. If you want to deliver other infantry units (like Shock Hive Guard or Venomthropes) you'll need a Tyrannocyte or Jormungandr.

 Dynas wrote:
Yeah. the FAQ killed lictors and 2 or 3 of our stratagems. The other one i like was metabolic overdrive with catalyst to charge. Cant do that anymore either. I mean come on. At least let me charge and on a 6+ i take a wound. Just extend the stratagem wouldn't be that hard.

Onslaught didn't really allow that to begin with. Metabolic overdrive is really good as is anyway.

Went to a tourney, and had a couple interesting games yesterday with my Nids/GSC/Astra Militarum

My List:


Round #1 I demolished a guy that was tac marines + dreadnoughts. Got 40/42 possible points for ITC champs missions.

Round #2:

Do you guys have any advice on how to go 2nd against the Eldar Meta list? or just how to face it generally. I could probably put hundreds of Gants on the table and win, but that doesn't feel like a fun way to play. Kronos denying quicken on the Shining spears helped, but not enough. I feel like I've got nothing that can threaten the Dark Reapers that he can't neutralize with charging / screening / interceptoring.

Round #3:

This game really showed off the Exocrine. Boy did he exceed my expectations. I took the exocrine mainly because I only had 6 hive guard, and no lemun russes. Overall, I liked that Kronos detachment alot in that tourney list.

I was wondering if you guys had any thought on the viability of an Exocrine as a big "Look over here, shoot me" target. I was blown away that he survived 3 turns of bombardment from plague crawlers, and a round of shooting from a xiphon and fire raptor. If I'm playing GSC, am I better off with a lemun russ? More Hive Guard? Do I have enough Vehicle/ monster killing power in that army?

Against CWE you need to Beta DS them IMO. FHT's DSing and doing lots of damage along with anything else you can get into melee. Even if Rippers get into melee with Dark Reapers they are done for a turn or 2.

Against Shiny Spears you MUST charge them, do not let them get into 6" of you, they will get 40 shots that rend and then some S6/S8 shots and finally an insane melee turn. Their str is rapid fire and amazing charge turn, they do not get weapon str bonus if they do not charge.

So after a few games as much as I like the economy of the 2 DIV/Mon Rending claws flyrant I think for the targets it needs to be used against a pure melee 2xMon sytal flyrant is more effective with it's rerolling 1's and extra attack. I tend to use the Dev gaunt bomb to clear screens so I like my Flyrants to punch hard into the tough enemies and I am finding the 12 DIV shots not to be cutting the mustard vs the average of 2 more hits in melee that the twin SYTALS are giving. What do you all say?

That said I have several pure gun kitted Flyrants that do very well with full 4xDIV or 2DIV/HVC(Which is often made into Mysama)

My next list I'm planning to field 2 pure melee flyrants with sytals and one HVC/DIV Flyrant. I think this will be the basis of most of my current lists usually a Battalion and a spearhead.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Against CWE you need to Beta DS them IMO. FHT's DSing and doing lots of damage along with anything else you can get into melee. Even if Rippers get into melee with Dark Reapers they are done for a turn or 2.

Against Shiny Spears you MUST charge them, do not let them get into 6" of you, they will get 40 shots that rend and then some S6/S8 shots and finally an insane melee turn. Their str is rapid fire and amazing charge turn, they do not get weapon str bonus if they do not charge.

You understand that neither of those things are possible against most tourney meta eldar armies, right? In this game it was impossible for me to DS in within 18" to shoot the flyrant devourers at the Dark Reapers. Also, one of the Flyrants lost a pile of wounds to Dark Reapers interceptoring him. The Shining Spears start very well screened. Then move 36" or just start off the table.. They will always get the 1st assault on you, before you can assault them. Thanks to Kronos and deepest shadow, I was able to limit the shining spears to 18" movement, but they popped court of the young king, and made some insane charge. He rolled 11, so that let them move 14" if I recall. Not much you can do about that, especially when our long range guns are 36" range.

If I did manage to tie up a unit of dark reapers with a unit of rippers, they would leave combat, and spend 1 command point to act normally. It's likely a problem without a solution, I was just hoping I was missing something.

tag8833 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Against CWE you need to Beta DS them IMO. FHT's DSing and doing lots of damage along with anything else you can get into melee. Even if Rippers get into melee with Dark Reapers they are done for a turn or 2.

Against Shiny Spears you MUST charge them, do not let them get into 6" of you, they will get 40 shots that rend and then some S6/S8 shots and finally an insane melee turn. Their str is rapid fire and amazing charge turn, they do not get weapon str bonus if they do not charge.

You understand that neither of those things are possible against most tourney meta eldar armies, right? In this game it was impossible for me to DS in within 18" to shoot the flyrant devourers at the Dark Reapers. Also, one of the Flyrants lost a pile of wounds to Dark Reapers interceptoring him. The Shining Spears start very well screened. Then move 36" or just start off the table.. They will always get the 1st assault on you, before you can assault them. Thanks to Kronos and deepest shadow, I was able to limit the shining spears to 18" movement, but they popped court of the young king, and made some insane charge. He rolled 11, so that let them move 14" if I recall. Not much you can do about that, especially when our long range guns are 36" range.

If I did manage to tie up a unit of dark reapers with a unit of rippers, they would leave combat, and spend 1 command point to act normally. It's likely a problem without a solution, I was just hoping I was missing something.

You could not come withe 18". But what about 24"? Mr devourer. Long and hard. Shoots like a boomstick. Yeah?

I played a game yesterday.

2k points
Mission: Retrieval

Me


My opponent


Objectives were pretty evenly placed with 1 in each of our deployment zones and 1 just outside of each of them.

I deployed my raveners, redterror, prime, warriors, gaunts and gants into tunnels.

My ripper swarms were placed 9" in from my back corners and lined out towards the center of my deployment zone to block off deepstrikes and at the front line of my deployment zone in a similar way. Neurothropes spaced out int he middle. with the Malanthrope and Exocrine in a good area to keep the Exocrine protected by the -1 hit aura. The hivegaurd near the front and as best as could be out of LoS. There did end up being a small pocket in the back of my deployment zone where a few marines could drop in. But otherwise there was nowhere to deepstrike on me.

He had rhinos full of dudes, dudes in terrain and in buildings, and his jump packs in deepstrike.


Despite having less deployments then me I won the roll off. So deepstrikes happened. One batch of Raveners showed up with the Red Terror in his back field. One showed up along one board edge with the Hormagaunts in front and the Warriors/prime behind these ones closer to the bulk of his rhinos. The last was deployed on the other side of his deployment with the termagants.

Double shoot stratagem with the termagant bomb. It wasn't as effective as I hoped because we had a lot of large terrain pieces so his 3+ was a 2+. Guys died, but not as much as I would have liked.

The venom canons went to work on the rhinos along with the hive guard and biovores while the deathspitters chewed threw some more infantry. I didn't charge with the Hormagaunts yet because the closest unit, a rhino, had died and he deployed the marines inside back far enough that I would have needed to make a 10" charge. Better to not loose some dudes to pointless overwatch. The exocrine managed to wipe a unit of marines flat out and grabbed me first blood.

He made deepstriked assault marines into the little pocket in my deployment and one in front of my list and fired every las cannon or plasmas and whatever he could to try and take down my exocrine. One assault unit got it tied up in combat and the other went for the malanthrope (my warlord). He shot at my warriors and prime (with snipers) but didn't manage to hurt anything too bad (Hooray +1 sv). He gathered up all his marines from the rhinos and charged my hormgaunts probably hoping to get them before they could get him. Caustic Blood. I killed a small batch of his marines for trying to fight me. He turned his bikers into the Redterror/raveners. By the end of the round I was firmly in control of 2 objectives, contesting 1, had first blood, was feeling pretty good about myself.


Turn 2 I set about dismantling the assault marines/character in my deployment zone. I fell back with the exocrine and malanthrope and began a barrage of smite spam, spore mines, impaler canons, and charged what little survived with the rippers to make them deal with what I wanted them to deal with. 2 biovores and 1 implaer canon went back to work on his second rhino. I fell back with the hormagaunts and let rip with the deathspitters taking out a bulk of the marines that were in the fight with the hormagaunts. Just keep firing shots into his dudes.

By the end of turn 3 he had completely lost 2/3rds of the board. My exocrine had died but my Neurothropes were moving forward to add smites to my other heavy fire. The Termagants remained mostly unharmed, the Hormagaunts still existed but barely and the warriors started suffering some losses. A few raveners had dropped.

By the end of the game I had full control of 2 objectives. He had one. I could easily grab a 3rd with the termagants and grab line breaker. We called the game after a bit of movement because it was imossible for him to shift the balance.

A win for Jorm.


Final Thoughts.

This was not the list I want, just what I had built. But the strategy worked. My Raveners with the troops did a lot of work on his units. He had to split himself in several directions to deal with the threats on his doorstep leaving my backfield a impenetrable fortified area that I just kept pushing forward out of. He couldn't deal with it all. Even if I lost first turn he would have done too little against what I had on the board and the burrowers would have layed the pressure on him just the same.

Raveners and Warriors are durable because of their 3 wounds and cover, deathspitters are pretty great en mass, and controlling the board is incredibly powerful. He had to fight me on my terms the entire game and I leveraged that to my advantage.

So you spent 6 of your 8 CPs for your alpha?

Did you miss some cp in the later turns? Or did it work out quite well?

Just some general thoughts I have had while playing nids lately:

- I really wish we had a 'hidder powerfist/claw' somewhere. I really hate it when my units get bogged down by a big unit with a good save and high T. Even the math on genstealers does not look so good in it. My regular opponent usually use an ork death rollar with nobs in it. That death roller I can never shoot down before it makes CC, and it just pounds what ever it is against. Also, the nobs jumping out with warius weapons are so randomly good.

The closest we come at a hidden power claw is the broodlord and old one eye.

- The venom cannon for the tyranid warrior is very random and un-reliable. I hate the D3 shots , even though for the most part they averadge at 6 almost each roll. What I do not like is the d3 damage on the shots that do make it through a save.

- Tyranid warriors, at least in leviathan, are supricingly though. They survive far more then they should.

- The 'War on all fronts' stratgem from leviathan is very good. The pay off on only 1 CP is very strong. Do not use models with scything tallons though! What is hard is how to trigger it. Last game a malanthrope charged in with the swarmlord. I have activated it with a neuronthrope before. But I am having a hard time finding a good flying ynit. The one hive tyrant I have is pure shooting. Sugestions are welcome.

- Running 6 hive guards are great until you meet T8 tanks. I really have problems with T8 tanks.

- Do not make 2 big charges in one turn. I made 2 charges with genstealers. One agaunst a unit of blobs and one vs a gorka morka porka (I forget witch one it is, the cunning one) After I activated my one unit, 2 cp made the other charge target wipe out my GS unit. (It did not help that I rolled all 1 and 2's. Out of 16 genstealers, 3 orks died. :-p)

Sugestions for how to get more 'hidden powerclaws' or just activating the leviathan 'war on all front' is welcome. I am contemplating a flyrant with crushing claws and adrenal glands.

I've been saying for years Nids lack Sargent's with weapons and it hurts us more than we think. But everyone tells me its stupid or i'm wrong :(

Glad to see i'm not the only one.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I've been saying for years Nids lack Sargent's with weapons and it hurts us more than we think. But everyone tells me its stupid or i'm wrong :(

Glad to see i'm not the only one.

Well, we are the only arm that has no induvidualaty. I would argue it is quite thematic. No stars and medals allow our hormogaunt to level up and yeald the deadly crushing claw. When the battle is over, into the digestive pool they go. If the hive mind wanted High S and AP they would just make some carnifexes. From a game balance perspective, well, we doo need some weaknes, besides the 5th to 7th edition curse of overcosting. I like it. That being said, I need to find a work around,

Chaos daemons have many units that dont also.

But Nids used to have sargent like units int he past, you could even make them. It was pseudo sargents, but they could still do it in minor ways.

Nids are about adapting, if they needed to hid 1 strong weapon, they would.

I always thought it would be kinda cool if you could add a single warrior to a unit of gaunts as a sort of sergeant model.

It would basically invalidate synapse in the current system, so wouldn't work very well without wider changes to the army.

To avoid losing a unit of genestealers after charging 2 units, use paroxysm. It makes a unit unable to fight until everything else fights, so they can't use the strategem to fight because the unit is not elegible to fight yet.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I've been saying for years Nids lack Sargent's with weapons and it hurts us more than we think. But everyone tells me its stupid or i'm wrong :(

Glad to see i'm not the only one.

well, we do have precedent in devilgaunts, it would be tre cool if we could add in crushing claw Hormagaunts...str 6 would be very useful.


Maybe next edition?

 Niiai wrote:
[...]
- The 'War on all fronts' stratgem from leviathan is very good. The pay off on only 1 CP is very strong. Do not use models with scything tallons though! What is hard is how to trigger it. Last game a malanthrope charged in with the swarmlord. I have activated it with a neuronthrope before. But I am having a hard time finding a good flying ynit. The one hive tyrant I have is pure shooting. Sugestions are welcome.
[...]
Sugestions for how to get more 'hidden powerclaws' or just activating the leviathan 'war on all front' is welcome. I am contemplating a flyrant with crushing claws and adrenal glands.

War on all fronts:
Sky-Slasher Swarm and Gargoles (blinding venom) can be used. They are cheap and mobile and mostly not worth shooting on them, especially with the 6+++.
I did it with harpies too, because they give you the bonus, that the enemy unit can not be activated with cps to fight second. With this trick i kicked some berserkers to dust with termagants and some warriors as support. It also worked quite well with a troop of bulgryns who surrounded my warlord in cc, not beeing able to hit anything until everyone else had trampeled on them. There was not much bulgryn left afterwards.
Its situational, and i think you can build an army around 'War on all fronts' beeing effective enough, but it wil be hard work to build the list.
Maybe with shrikes and Warriors? Maybe combine with a prime...

Hidden powerclaws:
'Weapon Monsters' are not possible any more since some editions, so you have to work with the swarmy elements and flood the enemy with quantity, not quality.
The acid maw for genestealers is some kind of low budget version, but you cant hide good damage outputs in 'normal' stuff.
It would have to be a character to hide, or be part of the unit. The latter is not possible, the former leaves you with broodlord (cc monster+smite) and neurothrope (smite + scream). The prime, Red Terror and Deathleaper beeing not that hard of a hitter.
Edit:
Tyranids have more of the 'obvious powerclaw'. So threat overload is your way to go, or drown in bodies.

 DaBraken wrote:
So you spent 6 of your 8 CPs for your alpha?

Did you miss some cp in the later turns? Or did it work out quite well?

No. I spent 4. Red terror and ravs can deepstrike on their own. Termagants warrior hormagaunts and prime needed the cp.

And it wasnt really all about the alpha strike. If my oppnent went first they would have no viable targets because almost all visible targets were characters hiding behind batches of ripper swarms or protected by the malanthrope.

I not only secured my alpha strike and board control i negated his.

I did spend my other 4. Caustic blood and shoot twice primarily.

By the 3rd turn i had done my damage and was just cleaning up. I didnt need any more cp to win out.


Also i was playing nice building my list this way. I had the hq and troops to take several battalions or a brigade and grab more cp if i wanted.

pinecone77 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I've been saying for years Nids lack Sargent's with weapons and it hurts us more than we think. But everyone tells me its stupid or i'm wrong :(

Glad to see i'm not the only one.

well, we do have precedent in devilgaunts, it would be tre cool if we could add in crushing claw Hormagaunts...str 6 would be very useful.


Maybe next edition?

I would LOVE that! lol

atm im thoroughly convinced Tyranids are the most balanced and well thought out codex out of all of them currently. We have all the tools, good mobility, cheap bodies, access to mortal wounds for tough stuff (which we need since we don't have really good long range AT). The only thing nids lack are durability and sticking power. I think that is a pretty fair trade off for having everything else.

If carnifex's suddenly had 2+/5++ we would be too strong.


I think we got hit a bit too hard on our FW units. Barbed and Scythed hierodules should be cheaper (should not cost much more than 2 leman russ tanks for the barbed), and the Malanthrope is way too expensive for what he brings (most armies get a -1 to hit aura for free or at 6" range). He should be 115 points and drop to 7 wounds instead of 9.

I will gripe about warriors though. They should have just rolled Shrikes, ravenors, and warriors all into one profile, gave them 4 wounds apiece, made wings or tails optional by changing them to Fast attack slot (wings dropping their save to 5+ and tails dropping their synapse). I'd also increase their base cost to 23 for the extra wound.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
atm im thoroughly convinced Tyranids are the most balanced and well thought out codex out of all of them currently. We have all the tools, good mobility, cheap bodies, access to mortal wounds for tough stuff (which we need since we don't have really good long range AT). The only thing nids lack are durability and sticking power. I think that is a pretty fair trade off for having everything else.

If carnifex's suddenly had 2+/5++ we would be too strong.


I think we got hit a bit too hard on our FW units. Barbed and Scythed hierodules should be cheaper (should not cost much more than 2 leman russ tanks for the barbed), and the Malanthrope is way too expensive for what he brings (most armies get a -1 to hit aura for free or at 6" range). He should be 115 points and drop to 7 wounds instead of 9.

I will gripe about warriors though. They should have just rolled Shrikes, ravenors, and warriors all into one profile, gave them 4 wounds apiece, made wings or tails optional by changing them to Fast attack slot (wings dropping their save to 5+ and tails dropping their synapse). I'd also increase their base cost to 23 for the extra wound.

I am fine with Warrior, shrikes, and Raveners as they are. I would have liked the Prime to gain options to be turned into a Shrike Prime (updated parasite of mortrex?) or the Red Terror (with the Red Terror gaining synapse) and it's +1 to hit applying to whatever type of unit it was built for.

Yeah, its for sure the best codex i've ever seen other than a couple minor things. 1 is the Warrior Prime, it costs a bit to much to only buff warriors and has no Heavy Bio-Cannon options, or able to get wings.

I would love Primes with Wings and Heavy weapons.

The GSC comes with a hybrid claw if you wanne do a test model hormagaunt. :p

Yeah, activating war on all fronts is hard. I am thinking maybe a 3 man group of shrikes to babysitt leviathan genestealers? Malantrope is a bit slow the turn you charge.

All the sugestions on paroxysemn are really good. Perhaps on a neuronthrope for the re-rolls?

What do people think about old one eye, or flyrant for vrushing claws (bonus can activate war on all fronts!) or GS primarch for the 'hidden powerfist'?

Hormagaunt crushing claw beta test? :p

 Lance845 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
atm im thoroughly convinced Tyranids are the most balanced and well thought out codex out of all of them currently. We have all the tools, good mobility, cheap bodies, access to mortal wounds for tough stuff (which we need since we don't have really good long range AT). The only thing nids lack are durability and sticking power. I think that is a pretty fair trade off for having everything else.

If carnifex's suddenly had 2+/5++ we would be too strong.


I think we got hit a bit too hard on our FW units. Barbed and Scythed hierodules should be cheaper (should not cost much more than 2 leman russ tanks for the barbed), and the Malanthrope is way too expensive for what he brings (most armies get a -1 to hit aura for free or at 6" range). He should be 115 points and drop to 7 wounds instead of 9.

I will gripe about warriors though. They should have just rolled Shrikes, ravenors, and warriors all into one profile, gave them 4 wounds apiece, made wings or tails optional by changing them to Fast attack slot (wings dropping their save to 5+ and tails dropping their synapse). I'd also increase their base cost to 23 for the extra wound.

I am fine with Warrior, shrikes, and Raveners as they are. I would have liked the Prime to gain options to be turned into a Shrike Prime (updated parasite of mortrex?) or the Red Terror (with the Red Terror gaining synapse) and it's +1 to hit applying to whatever type of unit it was built for.

I am in love with the warriors. 5 pt heavy bolter for each guy, with a nice heavy weapon every three models and only two points for boneswords? Yes please. I basically split the cost of the tyranid prime / the number of warriors I have and I just consider that my warriors cost this much more.At 2 units of 6 warriors a tyranid prime really is a steal. I know other stuff work better, but i think that the tyranid warriors with deathspitters, boneswords and venom cannons are perhaps the only really viable "Jack of all trades" unit that's actually decently costed. Synapse and shadow are just icings on the cake.

I am not gonne take the whole warrior debate again. But weather you like them or not the fact that they have 3 wounds and do not get ganked by a 2 wound weapon (plasma) is huge. If the SM primaris models had 3 wounds and costed just a tad more, they would not be so vonerable ingame.

Warriors stil eat multi and singel wound weapons, so they are the opposet of target saturation. (All monsters, or all infantery.)

I like leviathan warriors as well.
Agree that the prime needs some more options.

Also hate the d3 shots and d3 damage on Venom Cannons, its just another die to roll that slows down the game IMO, just make it 2 and keep it easy.

Malanthrope is over costed. His range needs to increase to the 6" and so does his speed. He has the great ability to get the rerolls for you entire army, but he is so slow it never gets into combat unless you somehow grab a screening scout unit.

 Niiai wrote:

- I really wish we had a 'hidder powerfist/claw' somewhere. I really hate it when my units get bogged down by a big unit with a good save and high T.

You're looking at it backwards, the big unit with good save and high toughness is getting bogged down by your units. If a sub-100 point unit can keep a far more costly unit tied up for a few turns I'll take that as a net win.

Anyway, the oft overlooked Tyrant Guard can do that trick to an extent since they do have access to Crushing Claws on a per model basis and GSC Acolyte Hybrids are basically tailor made for that purpose. I don't think our swarm units will ever have the ability to take an armor cracker in squad though, as all Tyranid infantry are designed to be disposable assets and the army as a whole is intended to work as a single interconnected organism rather than an army of self-sufficient squads.

 Niiai wrote:

- The 'War on all fronts' stratgem from leviathan is very good. The pay off on only 1 CP is very strong. Do not use models with scything tallons though! What is hard is how to trigger it. Last game a malanthrope charged in with the swarmlord. I have activated it with a neuronthrope before. But I am having a hard time finding a good flying ynit. The one hive tyrant I have is pure shooting. Sugestions are welcome.

Tyrannocytes are my personal favorite. Using them in their transport functionality means they will be in the thick of things anyway (along with whatever they delivered) and they aren't generally scary enough to concentrate fire against.

 Niiai wrote:

- Running 6 hive guards are great until you meet T8 tanks. I really have problems with T8 tanks.

If you have the new plastic version switch to Shock Cannons (the guns are actually designed to be able to swap between the two without magnets, really nice!). Shock Cannons work quite well against the larger vehicles though they need to be played more aggressively than Impaler Cannons.

WRT War On All Fronts - I’m building a Leviathan Outriders with a Dimachaeron, it can run up the middle of the table and take advantage of LOS-blocking terrain, not losing horizontal distance as it leaps tall buildings in a single bound. Add six Raveners and there’s two solid options for rendezvousing with a flyrant and Gargoyles - or the Harpy that’s coming along.

Not depending on pulling a WOAF off, but keeping it in mind if the opportunity arises.

Edit: also this is for a six fleets list that’s built around several themed detachments.

So took my tyranids (with a touch of genestealer cult) to warhammer worlds Heat 3 last weekend.

Took 4th after getting alpha struck viciously round one for a loss then winning pretty handily vs all other opponents.

If theres interest I'll type up my list and a bit of a report.

Converted/kitbashed Biovores complete.




I used Genestealer body. The front legs are large scything talons that I inverted and cut off the scythes. The guns are stranglethorn cannons from hive tyrant and carnifex boxes. Green stuff was added here and there to fill in cracks and odd edges.

 Niiai wrote:
I am not gonne take the whole warrior debate again. But weather you like them or not the fact that they have 3 wounds and do not get ganked by a 2 wound weapon (plasma) is huge. If the SM primaris models had 3 wounds and costed just a tad more, they would not be so vulnerable ingame.
*snip*

It would have been hilarious if primaris had turned out to be the size of warriors upon release (size equals wounds in my mind)

Sneggy wrote:
So took my tyranids (with a touch of genestealer cult) to warhammer worlds Heat 3 last weekend.

Took 4th after getting alpha struck viciously round one for a loss then winning pretty handily vs all other opponents.

If theres interest I'll type up my list and a bit of a report.

that would be awesome man! Do you think you would have preformed better if you didnt lose the first game? did you preform better then you expected?

I read this post by goldfireendymion on thetyranidhive forum what do you think about this tier list?

Rippers and Hormies need to be A tier. Rippers get so many objective points in tourney games.
Hormies pile in and shut down gun lines.

Tyrannocytes are crap because they can only carry 1 unit of 20 or 1 monster. I definitely wouldn't put them at A.

Carnifexes are not S tier. Probably A.

Exoshrine should be A.

Raveners are only A in Jhormungard. Othervice they are often less good shrikes.

Not shure about Gargoyles in A?

Prime should probably be C tier. The only thing he brings is make warriors better. His melee and shooting is bad,

Miemetic spores should go hiegh up, some people swear by them.

Why is Deathleaper a D? With -2 to hit and character status, I dare say he's a solid purchase. He also has a couple of very tasty stratagems to go with him.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Why is Deathleaper a D? With -2 to hit and character status, I dare say he's a solid purchase. He also has a couple of very tasty stratagems to go with him.

He's real swingy. Sometimes he hits and makes back his points, but a lot of the time he fails to kill his target and gets murdered in turn. Worse is when you drop against someone with no high-point character models. Then he is just an expensive melee combatant.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Why is Deathleaper a D? With -2 to hit and character status, I dare say he's a solid purchase. He also has a couple of very tasty stratagems to go with him.

He's real swingy. Sometimes he hits and makes back his points, but a lot of the time he fails to kill his target and gets murdered in turn. Worse is when you drop against someone with no high-point character models. Then he is just an expensive melee combatant.

He can generate CP's, no?

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Why is Deathleaper a D? With -2 to hit and character status, I dare say he's a solid purchase. He also has a couple of very tasty stratagems to go with him.

He's real swingy. Sometimes he hits and makes back his points, but a lot of the time he fails to kill his target and gets murdered in turn. Worse is when you drop against someone with no high-point character models. Then he is just an expensive melee combatant.

He can generate CP's, no?

IF he does his job and kills a character.

And IF you have a cp to spend on the stratagem to attempt to generate cp.

And IF you roll a 2 or 3 on a d3 because if you roll a 1 your just making back the 1 CP you spent to attempt this nonsense to begin with.

Thats a lot of ifs.

I have not used the DL yet. But I think he can be good. He is very survivable with the -2 to hit, and the fact that he cahracter can be good. But he is the price of 2 licors, and they are not very good.

 Zimko wrote:
To avoid losing a unit of genestealers after charging 2 units, use paroxysm. It makes a unit unable to fight until everything else fights, so they can't use the strategem to fight because the unit is not elegible to fight yet.

Wait, what? Is there an FAQ or something that supports this?

 Niiai wrote:
I have not used the DL yet. But I think he can be good. He is very survivable with the -2 to hit, and the fact that he cahracter can be good. But he is the price of 2 licors, and they are not very good.

Problem is one of the most popular units in the game, dark reapers, totally denies his -2 if he is in kill range. If he is not in kill range, he is simply sitting somewhere not really doing anything. I have used him a lot, and I LOVE the character, but his rules do not reflect his fluff. with only 4 attacks, mostly only -1ap, no invul, a 5+ save, and t4, he dies to even medium space marine characters. I was hoping they would make his damage more on the tier of a broodlord, but oh well...

Unfortunately, the best use I have seen for him is holding a rear objective.

DL needs an entire rework, as its rules have nothing to do with its fluff.

DL isn't a character killer, it is a terror weapon. It's should do horrible things to the enemy leadership characteristic, while Lictors do the character killing.

 gameandwatch wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
I have not used the DL yet. But I think he can be good. He is very survivable with the -2 to hit, and the fact that he cahracter can be good. But he is the price of 2 licors, and they are not very good.

Problem is one of the most popular units in the game, dark reapers, totally denies his -2 if he is in kill range. If he is not in kill range, he is simply sitting somewhere not really doing anything. I have used him a lot, and I LOVE the character, but his rules do not reflect his fluff. with only 4 attacks, mostly only -1ap, no invul, a 5+ save, and t4, he dies to even medium space marine characters. I was hoping they would make his damage more on the tier of a broodlord, but oh well...

Unfortunately, the best use I have seen for him is holding a rear objective.

My argument for the DL having potensial was depended on using the character rule. How the DR shoots him in your example is beyond me, and by the time they are clipping your DL you are probably screwed anyway if it is him and your backline left.

I think Mawlocs should be at least a B.

104pts for 2" deepstriking, does 1-2 MW (on average) to every enemy model within 2" when deepstriking, basically the best distraction carnifex of 8th edition, can go back in reserves and deepstrike in again before turn 3 and if taking Jormungandr it can deepstrike an ifantry unit (but you lose it's MW ability).

The reason it can't be an A or better is due to it not be able to charge when it deepstrikes and that every Mawloc has to be 6" away from each other when they deepstrike.

 Niiai wrote:

 gameandwatch wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
I have not used the DL yet. But I think he can be good. He is very survivable with the -2 to hit, and the fact that he cahracter can be good. But he is the price of 2 licors, and they are not very good.

Problem is one of the most popular units in the game, dark reapers, totally denies his -2 if he is in kill range. If he is not in kill range, he is simply sitting somewhere not really doing anything. I have used him a lot, and I LOVE the character, but his rules do not reflect his fluff. with only 4 attacks, mostly only -1ap, no invul, a 5+ save, and t4, he dies to even medium space marine characters. I was hoping they would make his damage more on the tier of a broodlord, but oh well...

Unfortunately, the best use I have seen for him is holding a rear objective.

My argument for the DL having potensial was depended on using the character rule. How the DR shoots him in your example is beyond me, and by the time they are clipping your DL you are probably screwed anyway if it is him and your backline left.

But why pay for DL to see on some objective in the back of your field? For 70 pts you could have another neurothrope as a 3++ character that heals itself, buffs/debuffs and hands out mortal wounds to anyone that comes near it.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
To avoid losing a unit of genestealers after charging 2 units, use paroxysm. It makes a unit unable to fight until everything else fights, so they can't use the strategem to fight because the unit is not elegible to fight yet.

Wait, what? Is there an FAQ or something that supports this?

There isn't. And honestly I'm not sure myself. The wording on the strategem is that it needs to target an 'eligible' unit to fight. Paroxysm doesn't allow a unit to fight until all other units fight. So I don't think it can be considered 'eligible to fight'.

I'm going to ask each TO before a tournament. Hopefully we can get an FAQ update for it.

You can use the interrupt strat on a unit that has paroxysm cast on it, but you'd be wasting your CP.

The unit is Eligible to fight as it hasn't swung yet and is within 1" of an enemy unit, however, it cannot actually swing till the end of the fight phase as it has to go last after everything else.


There are some issues with units that automatically swing first though, such as Slaneshy marines. I think it says you have to roll off but I cant remember for sure.

Units who would always fight first, act as if they dont have this ability under paroxysm.

 DaBraken wrote:
Units who would always fight first, act as if they dont have this ability under paroxysm.

not true. Units with an abilaty to always fight first. Does the unit have the abilaty, or does the rules allow it, aka, charging.?

 Niiai wrote:

 DaBraken wrote:
Units who would always fight first, act as if they dont have this ability under paroxysm.

not true. Units with an abilaty to always fight first. Does the unit have the abilaty, or does the rules allow it, aka, charging.?

Units that charge do not simply "fight first". They get to be selected to fight before units that did not charge. If they have a stipulation that says they cannot fight until all other eligible units fight then they still have to wait until all other eligible units fight first. Eligible units is anyone who charged or are within 1" of an enemy unit.

 Niiai wrote:

 DaBraken wrote:
Units who would always fight first, act as if they dont have this ability under paroxysm.

not true. [...]

Its part of the wording of paroxysm.
"... If the target unit has an ability that allows it to fight first in the fight phase, it instead fights as if it didn't have this ability. ..."

Units with an abilaty to always fight first. Does the unit have the abilaty, or does the rules allow it, aka, charging.?

Charging would not give such an ability like for example massive toxic lashes (melee) from the toxicrene do, or such like.
For the charging units the following part aplies:
"... , that unit cannot fight in the fight phase until all other units that are able to have done so. ..."

So then, paroxysm does stop the strategem from interrupting combat. Thus if you're charging say... Mortarion with 2 units of Genestealers then you better use paroxysm on him so that after one unit attacks, the other isn't attacked before they also get to swing.

correct zimko.

So example just to make sure I understand correctly on this double charge.

Unit A charges Chaos Marines
Unit B charges Montarion
Unit C is locked in combat with brimstones from prior turn.

In pysker phase I cast Paroxysm on Montarion, he fails to deny. Goes off Successfully.

In the fight phase, its might turn, I choose to fight with unit A first since it charged.
Unit B also gets to fight first since it charged. However, he plays the Counter Assault stratagem to attack first, he has now wasted 2 CP, as I remind him he has Paroxysm on him and always fights last.
Then I get to go to the beginning of alternating unit selection so now Unit C fights first against the brimstones.

Now assuming all units survived my attacks, my opponent has to pick either the Marines or the Brimstones to attack next.

Then after everyone on his side has fought Montarion gets to fight.

Is this correct?

 Dynas wrote:
So example just to make sure I understand correctly on this double charge.

Unit A charges Chaos Marines
Unit B charges Montarion
Unit C is locked in combat with brimstones from prior turn.

In pysker phase I cast Paroxysm on Montarion, he fails to deny. Goes off Successfully.

In the fight phase, its might turn, I choose to fight with unit A first since it charged.
Unit B also gets to fight first since it charged. However, he plays the Counter Assault stratagem to attack first, he has now wasted 2 CP, as I remind him he has Paroxysm on him and always fights last.
Then I get to go to the beginning of alternating unit selection so now Unit C fights first against the brimstones.

Now assuming all units survived my attacks, my opponent has to pick either the Marines or the Brimstones to attack next.

Then after everyone on his side has fought Montarion gets to fight.

Is this correct?

That's my understanding, though after my opponent learns that they don't get to attack with Mortarion, I would allow them to either take back the 2 CP or allow them to use the strategem on something else. It's a rules question that resulted in them using the strat on Mortarion. I don't think it would be fair to penalize them if the rule was simply misunderstood since it's an an unusual rule interaction.

Forcing your opponent to accept wasting 2 CP would be one of those unsportsmanlike things that Tony got crucified for at LVO. Yeah you may be technically correct but everyone knows it's not cool to do.

 Zimko wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
So example just to make sure I understand correctly on this double charge.

Unit A charges Chaos Marines
Unit B charges Montarion
Unit C is locked in combat with brimstones from prior turn.

In pysker phase I cast Paroxysm on Montarion, he fails to deny. Goes off Successfully.

In the fight phase, its might turn, I choose to fight with unit A first since it charged.
Unit B also gets to fight first since it charged. However, he plays the Counter Assault stratagem to attack first, he has now wasted 2 CP, as I remind him he has Paroxysm on him and always fights last.
Then I get to go to the beginning of alternating unit selection so now Unit C fights first against the brimstones.

Now assuming all units survived my attacks, my opponent has to pick either the Marines or the Brimstones to attack next.

Then after everyone on his side has fought Montarion gets to fight.

Is this correct?

That's my understanding, though after my opponent learns that they don't get to attack with Mortarion, I would allow them to either take back the 2 CP or allow them to use the strategem on something else. It's a rules question that resulted in them using the strat on Mortarion. I don't think it would be fair to penalize them if the rule was simply misunderstood since it's an an unusual rule interaction.

Forcing your opponent to accept wasting 2 CP would be one of those unsportsmanlike things that Tony got crucified for at LVO. Yeah you may be technically correct but everyone knows it's not cool to do.

Yeah. If anything, it would at least shut down the ability for the opponent to use the interrupt stratagem on a key unit once you lock it in. So it still has its uses.

I really want to make Gorgon work so I made this list. Is hoping for this any good or do Genestealers with a broodlord just beat it out.

+++ Gorgon (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [108 PL, 1999pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Gorgon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Tyrannocyte: 5x Deathspitter

Tyrannocyte: 5x Deathspitter

Tyrannocyte: 5x Deathspitter

+ Heavy Support +

Biovores: 3x Biovore

Biovores: 3x Biovore

Biovores: 3x Biovore

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant: Heavy Venom Cannon, Hyper-adaptive Biology, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream, Toxin Sacs, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology, Wings

Tyranid Prime: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Tyranid Warriors
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter, Toxin Sacs

Tyranid Warriors
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter, Toxin Sacs

++ Fortification Network (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kronos

+ Fortification +

Sporocyst: 5x Deathspitter

Sporocyst: 5x Deathspitter

Sporocyst: 5x Deathspitter

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)




Obviously the prime and 2 warrior squads come down in the tyranocytes to utterly blow up the opponent. Even with screens its hard to stop the damage of 6 venom cannons and 28 Deathspitters in your grill. The biovores plus hive tyrant and sporocysts would have to start on the board in the deploy zone though to facilitate this. Mabey one sporocyst infiltrates and rippers on the board in front of tyrant?

Why not replace two tyrannocites with a Trygon, and use the stratagem to bring the Prime with the Trygon?

I like the list. Very interesting.

 Dynas wrote:

 Zimko wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
So example just to make sure I understand correctly on this double charge.

Unit A charges Chaos Marines
Unit B charges Montarion
Unit C is locked in combat with brimstones from prior turn.

In pysker phase I cast Paroxysm on Montarion, he fails to deny. Goes off Successfully.

In the fight phase, its might turn, I choose to fight with unit A first since it charged.
Unit B also gets to fight first since it charged. However, he plays the Counter Assault stratagem to attack first, he has now wasted 2 CP, as I remind him he has Paroxysm on him and always fights last.
Then I get to go to the beginning of alternating unit selection so now Unit C fights first against the brimstones.

Now assuming all units survived my attacks, my opponent has to pick either the Marines or the Brimstones to attack next.

Then after everyone on his side has fought Montarion gets to fight.

Is this correct?

That's my understanding, though after my opponent learns that they don't get to attack with Mortarion, I would allow them to either take back the 2 CP or allow them to use the strategem on something else. It's a rules question that resulted in them using the strat on Mortarion. I don't think it would be fair to penalize them if the rule was simply misunderstood since it's an an unusual rule interaction.

Forcing your opponent to accept wasting 2 CP would be one of those unsportsmanlike things that Tony got crucified for at LVO. Yeah you may be technically correct but everyone knows it's not cool to do.

Yeah. If anything, it would at least shut down the ability for the opponent to use the interrupt stratagem on a key unit once you lock it in. So it still has its uses.

I would be careful with this. Since Mortarion would still be eligible to fight in that phase he could theoretically be targeted with the 2 CP stratagem. All Paroxysm would accomplish is that no one could attack after him since he would have to be "last" to fight.

that's not at all how that works. Paroxysm makes whoever you cast it on swing last after all other units swing. It doesn't mean when the unit who is paroxysm'd swings no other units get to swing.

Tyran wrote:
Why not replace two tyrannocites with a Trygon, and use the stratagem to bring the Prime with the Trygon?

Because that list is Gorgon and the strategem is Jormungandr.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
that's not at all how that works. Paroxysm makes whoever you cast it on swing last after all other units swing. It doesn't mean when the unit who is paroxysm'd swings no other units get to swing.

Why not? He is still eligible to swing, just has to be last. 2 CP gets him his chance. Since everyone else had to go before him, they missed their chance because he was last.

I was trying to clearify that charging or using the 2CP stratgem does not override paroxysmn. But we are all on the same page now.

Do anybody have a list of units that it does not work on? Banshees mask,is that one?

Doesn't work on Culexes assassin :p

And Goobi2 since paroxysm states that whoever you cast it on has to swing last, AFTER ALL OTHER UNITS WHO ARE FIGHTING, he obviously cant just say "ok, I'm fighting now and no one else gets to fight after me".

also thanks for the backup on that lance.

You could of course use trygons instead of tyranocytes if you could squeeze out the extra points and find some extra heavy support slots. Probably wouldn't be hard to get at least one in. No stratagem support though, so would need 1 trygon per infantry unit.

 Eihnlazer wrote:

And Goobi2 since paroxysm states that whoever you cast it on has to swing last, AFTER ALL OTHER UNITS WHO ARE FIGHTING, he obviously cant just say "ok, I'm fighting now and no one else gets to fight after me".

Well, given that no one would be attacking after him satisfies that capped section, since the only other fighting unit would have been that initial charger.

Goobi you're not making any sense.

2 units are charging. 1 non charging unit has paroxysm. The first charging unit fights. The opponent wants to use the strategem to fight with the non-charging unit but can't because all other eligible units haven't fought yet as per Paroxysm. (The other charging unit is still eligible to fight and hasn't done so yet, thus the requirements of Paroxysm haven't been met for the non-charging unit to fight.

Now please explain in that context what you're suggesting.

Goobi, no.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Doesn't work on Culexes assassin :p

And Goobi2 since paroxysm states that whoever you cast it on has to swing last, AFTER ALL OTHER UNITS WHO ARE FIGHTING, he obviously cant just say "ok, I'm fighting now and no one else gets to fight after me".

also thanks for the backup on that lance.

You could of course use trygons instead of tyranocytes if you could squeeze out the extra points and find some extra heavy support slots. Probably wouldn't be hard to get at least one in. No stratagem support though, so would need 1 trygon per infantry unit.

One Trygon per a TROOP. Trygons can only bring troops with them. It's the jorm Strat that opens them up to bringing any infantry. Couldn't bring a Prime with a Trygon if you wanted to.

What are people's thoughts on swapping Carnifexs out for Hive Tyrants? 40-50pts seems pretty good to get a 4++ invul and a pair of psychic powers.

 Zimko wrote:
Goobi you're not making any sense.

2 units are charging. 1 non charging unit has paroxysm. The first charging unit fights. The opponent wants to use the strategem to fight with the non-charging unit but can't because all other eligible units haven't fought yet as per Paroxysm. (The other charging unit is still eligible to fight and hasn't done so yet, thus the requirements of Paroxysm haven't been met for the non-charging unit to fight.

Now please explain in that context what you're suggesting.

I am suggesting that 2 units are charging. 1 non charging unit has paroxysm. The first charging unit fights. The opponent wants to use the stratagem to fight with the non-charging unit and can since it is still a unit that is eligible to fight. (The other charging unit isn't still eligible to fight as the Paroxysm'd unit had to be last, thus the requirements of Paroxysm have been met.)

The stratagem is designed to interrupt any priority in selecting eligible units after the initial charging unit. Paroxysm is effectively only as restrictive as the base BRB rules saying non-charging units have to be selected after all chargers have attacked. That line in the charging rules has the same amount of impact as to saying who is able to be selected. The stratagem is satisfied in that the charger goes 1st and that the Paroxysm'd unit is ''eligible'' (is within 1'' of an enemy unit). All it takes for Paroxysm to be satisfied is no one can fight after the Paroxysm'd unit.

Goobi2 wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
Goobi you're not making any sense.

2 units are charging. 1 non charging unit has paroxysm. The first charging unit fights. The opponent wants to use the strategem to fight with the non-charging unit but can't because all other eligible units haven't fought yet as per Paroxysm. (The other charging unit is still eligible to fight and hasn't done so yet, thus the requirements of Paroxysm haven't been met for the non-charging unit to fight.

Now please explain in that context what you're suggesting.

All it takes for Paroxysm to be satisfied is no one can fight after the Paroxysm'd unit.

Let's read Paroxysm...

"Until your next psychic phase, that unit cannot fight in the Fight phase until all other units that are able to fight have done so."

By your words... all it takes to be 'eligible' or 'able' to fight is to be within 1" of an enemy unit or to have charged. The second charging unit is most certainly able to fight. It hasn't done so yet. Therefore the requirements of Paroxysm are NOT met if the unit with Paroxysm fights via other means.

 Zimko wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
Goobi you're not making any sense.

2 units are charging. 1 non charging unit has paroxysm. The first charging unit fights. The opponent wants to use the strategem to fight with the non-charging unit but can't because all other eligible units haven't fought yet as per Paroxysm. (The other charging unit is still eligible to fight and hasn't done so yet, thus the requirements of Paroxysm haven't been met for the non-charging unit to fight.

Now please explain in that context what you're suggesting.

All it takes for Paroxysm to be satisfied is no one can fight after the Paroxysm'd unit.

Let's read Paroxysm...

"Until your next psychic phase, that unit cannot fight in the Fight phase until all other that are able to fight have done so."

By your words... all it takes to be 'eligible' or 'able' to fight is to be within 1" of an enemy unit or to have charged. The second charging unit is most certainly able to fight. It hasn't done so yet. Therefore the requirements of Paroxysm are NOT met if the unit with Paroxysm fights via other means.

It's because the Paroxysm'd unit attacked that the 2nd charging unit is no longer eligible to attack. The specific rule you attached to the Paroxysm'd unit overrode the general eligibility of the 2nd charging unit.

Goobi2 wrote:

 Zimko wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
Goobi you're not making any sense.

2 units are charging. 1 non charging unit has paroxysm. The first charging unit fights. The opponent wants to use the strategem to fight with the non-charging unit but can't because all other eligible units haven't fought yet as per Paroxysm. (The other charging unit is still eligible to fight and hasn't done so yet, thus the requirements of Paroxysm haven't been met for the non-charging unit to fight.

Now please explain in that context what you're suggesting.

All it takes for Paroxysm to be satisfied is no one can fight after the Paroxysm'd unit.

Let's read Paroxysm...

"Until your next psychic phase, that unit cannot fight in the Fight phase until all other that are able to fight have done so."

By your words... all it takes to be 'eligible' or 'able' to fight is to be within 1" of an enemy unit or to have charged. The second charging unit is most certainly able to fight. It hasn't done so yet. Therefore the requirements of Paroxysm are NOT met if the unit with Paroxysm fights via other means.

It's because the Paroxysm'd unit attacked that the 2nd charging unit is no longer eligible to attack. The specific rule you attached to the Paroxysm'd unit overrode the general eligibility of the 2nd charging unit.

Uhhh... how does it override eligibility to fight? A genestealers unit charged. Charging is the only requirement to be 'eligible' to fight. You're saying that Paroxysm somehow removes that eligibility? Paroxysm is a restriction on the unit it is on, not the rest of the units on the board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You know what, lets take this to You Make Da Call. I think we've taken up enough space here in the tactics thread.

Goobi.. Thats not how that works.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Doesn't work on Culexes assassin :p

And Goobi2 since paroxysm states that whoever you cast it on has to swing last, AFTER ALL OTHER UNITS WHO ARE FIGHTING, he obviously cant just say "ok, I'm fighting now and no one else gets to fight after me".

also thanks for the backup on that lance.

You could of course use trygons instead of tyranocytes if you could squeeze out the extra points and find some extra heavy support slots. Probably wouldn't be hard to get at least one in. No stratagem support though, so would need 1 trygon per infantry unit.

One Trygon per a TROOP. Trygons can only bring troops with them. It's the jorm Strat that opens them up to bringing any infantry. Couldn't bring a Prime with a Trygon if you wanted to.

You can bring a Prime with a Trygon and the Jorm Strat, Primes are infantry after all.

Primes are to costly IMO

If they were just a bit cheaper.

Tyran wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Doesn't work on Culexes assassin :p

And Goobi2 since paroxysm states that whoever you cast it on has to swing last, AFTER ALL OTHER UNITS WHO ARE FIGHTING, he obviously cant just say "ok, I'm fighting now and no one else gets to fight after me".

also thanks for the backup on that lance.

You could of course use trygons instead of tyranocytes if you could squeeze out the extra points and find some extra heavy support slots. Probably wouldn't be hard to get at least one in. No stratagem support though, so would need 1 trygon per infantry unit.

One Trygon per a TROOP. Trygons can only bring troops with them. It's the jorm Strat that opens them up to bringing any infantry. Couldn't bring a Prime with a Trygon if you wanted to.

You can bring a Prime with a Trygon and the Jorm Strat, Primes are infantry after all.

He was talking about a Gorgon list. So no Jorm strat. Also, as highlighted above, I mentioned that.

Goobi, I am not understanding you.

Tyranid Unit A charges Enemy Unit Y (Monty)
Tyranid Unit B is locked in combat with Unit Y (monty) from prior turn.
Tyranid Unit C charges the Enemy Unit Z from prior turn. (brimstones horrors)

In my Psyker phase I cast Paroxysm on enemy unit Y (monty).

Now in Fight Phase. I choose unit A to fight first since it charged.
Opponent is eligible to interrupt but could NOT interrupt with Unit Y (monty) as it has Paroxysm on it and must fight last. He could choose to interrupt with Unit Z.

Lets say he does. Then I get to attack with my unit C vs against Unit Z (brimstones) since it charged.

After that, all units that have charged have fought, so now we go into the alternation method of locked in combat. Since it is my turn I now pick my last unit B to attack his Monty.

Now opponent unit Z attacks, and finally Unit Y (Monty) attacks absolutely LAST due to Paroxysm.

Goobi, using this example what would change? Are you saying after my unit A charges and attacks Unit Y who is paroxysm. The opponent is eligible to play the Interrupt Stratagem on his unit Y (Monty) to attack Unit B only.

The opponent is eligible to play the Stratagem after the charge, but not on the Paroxysm unit.

Edit: long solved question.

I'm working on a list, i cant decide on my flyrants.

I have 3 flyrants, how would you kit them out? The list is 2 batallions, kronos and kraken, leaning more towards a shooty list with 2x6 hive guard and a tyrannofex. Kraken battalion has 2x14 genestealers, the rest of the points are rippers, termagants and a neurothrope. I was thinking, one with devourers and lash and bonesword with the relic, the other two with double devourer. What do you think?

I find myself in love with the first flyrant in my list, but I think come the second and up they start having big diminishing returns.

Reason is the first flyrant I can make a ranged powerhouse with quad devourers and smite/scream. One mobile platform perfect in doing one thing: Dishing huge amounts of mid range damage. Come the second flyrant, I already start seeing saturation issues. When I'm against hordes I could see a need for more devourers but honestly, dude's shooting 24 shots a turn. That's crazy. Plus he van get the +1 damage strat and destroy also elite infantry. But against an all around list, sometimes my second flyrant gets to shoot in non optimal targets, and the third one doesn't really serve much purpose. I find myself wondering if an Exocrine could be a better deal for the points than a third flyrant, and then I find myself thinking if two Exocrines would be a better deal than the second and third flyrant. Usually I go for the exocrines.

 killerpenguin wrote:
I'm working on a list, i cant decide on my flyrants.

I have 3 flyrants, how would you kit them out? The list is 2 batallions, kronos and kraken, leaning more towards a shooty list with 2x6 hive guard and a tyrannofex. Kraken battalion has 2x14 genestealers, the rest of the points are rippers, termagants and a neurothrope. I was thinking, one with devourers and lash and bonesword with the relic, the other two with double devourer. What do you think?

I have 2. I would suggest magnatizing the arms.

I normally run one with MRC and HVC
The other with Devours, Reaper of Obliterax bonesword and lashwhip as you mentioned. With toxin sacs

As attractive as double devourers look, they make your tyrant useless in assault, and since its only 18" range your will find yourself getting assaulted.

ALWAYS take MRC/w toxin sacs.

Its 4 points for 4 attacks at str6 with reroll wounds, -3/6 ap, and D3/4 damage. It is literally the best melee weapon in the game.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
As attractive as double devourers look, they make your tyrant useless in assault, and since its only 18" range your will find yourself getting assaulted.

ALWAYS take MRC/w toxin sacs.

Its 4 points for 4 attacks at str6 with reroll wounds, -3/6 ap, and D3/4 damage. It is literally the best melee weapon in the game.

Why though? Let them charge. I can overwatch with my 24 shots, then on my turn I can fall back and shoot again, because I'm a flyer. I see zero reason to take half and half. Either go all out hth or all out shooting in my opinion.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
As attractive as double devourers look, they make your tyrant useless in assault, and since its only 18" range your will find yourself getting assaulted.

ALWAYS take MRC/w toxin sacs.

Its 4 points for 4 attacks at str6 with reroll wounds, -3/6 ap, and D3/4 damage. It is literally the best melee weapon in the game.

Why though? Let them charge. I can overwatch with my 24 shots, then on my turn I can fall back and shoot again, because I'm a flyer. I see zero reason to take half and half. Either go all out hth or all out shooting in my opinion.

B/C MRC are free upgrades.
Also, you can still overwatch with 12 shots, and get to attack in fight phase with 4 attacks, then fall back and shoot 12 shots again, and charge back in and attack again. These MRC do more damage than your overwatch will.

But depending on the target, the MRC may not deal more damage than the 12 shots in the shooting phase.

Both are valid options, depending on what you want the Hive Tyrant to hunt.

Do you guys think my list needs more than 40 termagants as screen or is it too much? I haven't played with screens that often. Also any other suggestions on improvements are appreciated.

 killerpenguin wrote:
Do you guys think my list needs more than 40 termagants as screen or is it too much? I haven't played with screens that often. Also any other suggestions on improvements are appreciated.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kronos

+ Heavy Support +

Tyrannofex: Rupture Cannon, Stinger Salvo

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream, The Reaper of Obilterax, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Soul Hunger

Neurothrope

+ Elites +

Hive Guard
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon

Hive Guard
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Termagants: 20x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Termagants: 20x Termagant (Fleshborer)

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant: Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

Hive Tyrant: Power: Paroxysm, Power: Psychic Scream, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

+ Troops +

Genestealers: 3x Acid Maw
13x Genestealer: 13x Rending Claws

Genestealers: 3x Acid Maw
13x Genestealer: 13x Rending Claws

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Created with BattleScribe

Maybe consider drop the Kronos Hive Tyrant with a Malanthrope? to protect your big gun bugs from those lascannons and plasma firing back at them? Also the Kronos fleet is sounds more about gunline shooting, so the melee Walkrant feels a bit odd.

I also think it might better to have both of those Genestealer squads to be at full 20 models strength. So they can survive better in enemy shooting and retain 4A each longer in the game.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:
Do you guys think my list needs more than 40 termagants as screen or is it too much? I haven't played with screens that often. Also any other suggestions on improvements are appreciated.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kronos

+ Heavy Support +

Tyrannofex: Rupture Cannon, Stinger Salvo

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream, The Reaper of Obilterax, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Soul Hunger

Neurothrope

+ Elites +

Hive Guard
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon

Hive Guard
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Termagants: 20x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Termagants: 20x Termagant (Fleshborer)

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant: Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

Hive Tyrant: Power: Paroxysm, Power: Psychic Scream, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

+ Troops +

Genestealers: 3x Acid Maw
13x Genestealer: 13x Rending Claws

Genestealers: 3x Acid Maw
13x Genestealer: 13x Rending Claws

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Created with BattleScribe

Maybe consider drop the Kronos Hive Tyrant with a Malanthrope? to protect your big gun bugs from those lascannons and plasma firing back at them? Also the Kronos fleet is sounds more about gunline shooting, so the melee Walkrant feels a bit odd.

I also think it might better to have both of those Genestealer squads to be at full 20 models strength. So they can survive better in enemy shooting and retain 4A each longer in the game.

Thanks for the comment!
No the kronos HT has wings, something went wrong with my editing. I did consider the malantrope, its just that its so expensive now.

hmmm.. More genestealers...

yes but kronos has a great stratagem force opponent to cast powers with only 1 dice if within 24" of a kronos model, so maybe flying HT isn't a bad choice.

Had a game yesterday with Kronos against Thousand Sons.

My list:

Kronos Patrol (1000 points)

Broodlord (Soul Hunger)
Neurothrope
30 Hormagants
30 Termagants (Spinefist)
3 warriors (BS and DS)
Lictor
3x Venomthropes
Dakkafex (HVC and DS)
Screamer Killer

His list:

Thousand Son patrol

Terminator Sorcerer (+2 to cast)
5 Scarab occult with SRC
10 Rubrics with SRC
Predator with autocannon and 2 lascannons
20 cultists
Helbrute with fist and 2 lascannons
Some mixed horrors (i know, technically out of faction, but we didn't care)

No relics allowed for narrative rules.

Scenario was scorched earth on a 4x4 table, so only 4 objectives.

Highlight of the match, my dakkafex being wounded by a double lascannon and saving both on 6+.

Finished a tournament this weekend, and I’ve found that it’s important to always keep at least one command point aside for last turn movement shenanigans. 3 out of 4 games were won due to a unit of rippers double moving onto objectives, or a unit winning combat and using the move after combat stratagem to book it somewhere.
I will opt to go second nearly every game, even with the huge disadvantage of getting half my stuff blown off the board turn 1, in an objective based eternal war game going last with basically infinite movement units will win the game every time.

Eternal war is an unbalanced joke, i'm shocked tournaments are still using these missions for the exact reason you describe. Also, ripper swarms don't have obsec. But i get your point. I found my games stop being close in turn 3, and i start pulling away in turn 2. It's tough to get longer games, but if a game can make it to turn 4 or 5 that's ideal.

I'm noticing Custodes are making waves in the meta. Those shield captains are not a joke. And the regular bike bros are also pretty good. Outfitted with Hurricane Bolters, they clear chaff incredibly well, and they fly, so you can't wrap them up. With T6 2+ they're immensely difficult to bring down.

For this reason, I am considering dropping my devilgaunt bomb with Trygon in favor of an Acid Spray Tyrannofex for playtesting purposes. I won a 16 person ITC tournament, and 3 lists had custodes bikes in them. It's pretty significant since all lists are basically Guard + something, Eldar, and Chaos. If that "+ something" becomes custodes, which it easily could, we don't have great answers.

I am confused. What says rippers don't have ObSec? It looks like they are troops. They should have it.

 Lance845 wrote:
I am confused. What says rippers don't have ObSec? It looks like they are troops. They should have it.

Yes they do. My comment is wrong.

I started typing one thought, and replaced it with another, leaving that sentence totally messed up. I'm leaving in that way for posterity, and to also highlight that they *indeed do* have objective secured, and what i wrote was wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On another note:

Has anyone customized good battlefoam to transport 60+ hormagants? The best i can do is like 54 using their customize tool.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I am confused. What says rippers don't have ObSec? It looks like they are troops. They should have it.

Yes they do. My comment is wrong.

I started typing one thought, and replaced it with another, leaving that sentence totally messed up. I'm leaving in that way for posterity, and to also highlight that they *indeed do* have objective secured, and what i wrote was wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On another note:

Has anyone customized good battlefoam to transport 60+ hormagants? The best i can do is like 54 using their customize tool.

I can do 30 gaunts per layer of foam from the around 5th edition GW cases. Just have 3 layers and you have 90 gaunts.

I pack about 30-40 into a games plus tray by plucking out 2xlength rows and lining them up heads overlapping tails. You fit about 10 per row and can squeeze in 4 rows.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I am confused. What says rippers don't have ObSec? It looks like they are troops. They should have it.

Yes they do. My comment is wrong.

I started typing one thought, and replaced it with another, leaving that sentence totally messed up. I'm leaving in that way for posterity, and to also highlight that they *indeed do* have objective secured, and what i wrote was wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On another note:

Has anyone customized good battlefoam to transport 60+ hormagants? The best i can do is like 54 using their customize tool.

Magna rack from battlefoam. I have 60 hormagaunts and 40 stealers on the top layer with some to spare. The problem with the magna rack system is getting to models on lower tiers without using much taller spacers, and thus wasting bag space. Currently I run two trays with 6" spacers and it accommodates the vast majority of my 2k Nids list. The Tyrannocyte has to go in a separate box though cause it's too damn tall.

Running multiple Sporocysts, flying hive tyrants and Harpies, I have to use a big plastic automotive toolbox to realistically carry it all. Big stuff on the roomy bottom, a shelf above with all the gants and rippers lined along it, then a compartment on top with all the spore mines and various things I’ll have to reach for during a game.

I pin the wings on my hive tyrants. But sporocysts and tyrannocytes... Fuuuck... those models are a night mare to transport.

I usually carry all my small guys in a case with 30 Gaunts per foam tray. Anything that is big, awkward or delicate I carry in their own separate box(s), put them in a school bag/backpack. I like to add bubble wrap or foam to my start collecting box's inner rim and use those as my transport for the bigger models. I also pin my Tyrants as well. A lot of effort but worth it if you transport your army often or don't want your models broken.I also found drilling into the tyrant and putting a rod where the wings go work better then pinning but takes way longer to get done.

Really useful boxes, adhesive backed steel paper, magnets in your models bases.

I carry my 2000pts list (which features the big boys and 100+ gaunts everywhere in one tub about the size of a standard case (a little deeper)

+1 to magnetizing them. I was in such a rush last night I just through all 60 gaunts onto a baking tray and carried them off. Even had room for my venomthrops and Mawloc on there.

I gave both army transport cases and a custom tuppaware with magnet sheeting. I prefer the magnets, its so much easier, especially with all the claws and what not. That gets annoying when they catch on the foam.
I just bought some galvanized tin at home depot and some caulk and a large tuppaware bin at target. Caulk the inside of the tuppaware bottom and glue the tin down. Also, can put tin on the lid as well. Put magnets in the abases and drop it on the tin. I put my smaller models upside down on the lid, and the bigger guys right side up.

I am considering selling off one of my current armies and starting to collect nids. Considering my Necrons are very shooty, I'd be looking to go assaulty with a lot of units.

Are horde assault nids worthwhile?

Anyone care to steer a nid noob in the right direction as far as a decent build for something like that?

 iGuy91 wrote:
I am considering selling off one of my current armies and starting to collect nids. Considering my Necrons are very shooty, I'd be looking to go assaulty with a lot of units.

Are horde assault nids worthwhile?

Anyone care to steer a nid noob in the right direction as far as a decent build for something like that?

Nids fit what you want. Orks also fit that descrpition.

The best nid ass oult units is the genestealer. At 12 points per pop, it is an elite model, not a swarm model. Your averadge warrior cost 25 per model, it is descent in CC. Shrikes and ravaners cost about 23 to 30, but genstealers is where it is at.

Gargoyles and hormogaunts can be used to tie models up in CC.

You have no shortage og 'big models' that are good in CC.

Paint your army in your choise of colour so you can change between hive fleets. For melee there are 3 worth considering.

Hydra is a swarm army, gives you a lot of re-rolls in melee. Very good on gensteatealers. Kraken is super fast. Genstealers can charge turn 1 often. Behemot cam re-roll charge range, and with adrenal glands most if your stuff can charge from deep strike. (Need to roll an 8" on 2 dices, free re-roll of both dices or you can use a stratgem to re-roll 1 dice.)

Many tyranid lists use the swarmlord to garantee a first turn charge, although that charge often eats chaff.

Hi guys.
Starting to brew up a list to get started with my Tyranids army.
I'm personally not a fan of the horde-style so I wanted to go with a 'monster' variant.

Haven't been able to decide which Hive Fleet I will benefit from most.

Any help would be great!

(P.S. a box of Genestealers had horrendous amounts of moldlines on them... was i just unlucky or is that normal... :( )

Also I can't seem to find the link where there were tips on magnetizing Tyranids: if someone could guide me to the best place that'd be awesome.

Oh and finally do people paint their own schemes or are they following the Hive Fleet scheme to match their army?

ARMY LIST

Overdose wrote:

Also I can't seem to find the link where there were tips on magnetizing Tyranids: if someone could guide me to the best place that'd be awesome.

I think there is none. Never saw one, as long i can remember.
It depends on the model and the material how to magnetize it. For infantry models from rippers to tyranid wariors/shrikes/raveners i use 3x1mm round neodym magnets. As long its plastic or resin, its enough for each weaponry they can carry.
Best place to stick magnets is shoulder joints for arms and the connection between the weapon arms (venomcannon, deathspitter etc). Some people swear by drilling holes to insert magnets first, i personally glue them with superglue-greens stuff-superglue-magnet. With this combo i can adjust the position/angle afterwards for some time even if the superglue is already dry. Be sure to mark your magnets, so you insert the magnets always in the same direction so you can swap arms between models.
For bigger stuff like hive tyrants with or without wings, exocrine/haruspex, toxicrene/maleceptor, harpy/hive crone, tyrannofex/tervigon its a bit trickier, because you often have to model the magnets inside hollow bodies. For them i use 4x2mm round neodym magnets. Works just fine and has enough power to hold the parts even with 1-2 mm plastic between.

Oh and finally do people paint their own schemes or are they following the Hive Fleet scheme to match their army?

I developed my own paint sheme, mainly because i didnt like the one from 2nd edition and it carried over to all following editions until today. Following the known hive fleet shemes is not really a disadvantage, because its nowhere written, that you have to paint your models appropriate, but sometimes you play against "that guy" who knows/tells you that your sheme is for example Leviathan and so you cant use kraken benefits... it happens seldom, but it can happen...

 DaBraken wrote:

Overdose wrote:

Also I can't seem to find the link where there were tips on magnetizing Tyranids: if someone could guide me to the best place that'd be awesome.

I think there is none. Never saw one, as long i can remember.
It depends on the model and the material how to magnetize it. For infantry models from rippers to tyranid wariors/shrikes/raveners i use 3x1mm round neodym magnets. As long its plastic or resin, its enough for each weaponry they can carry.
Best place to stick magnets is shoulder joints for arms and the connection between the weapon arms (venomcannon, deathspitter etc). Some people swear by drilling holes to insert magnets first, i personally glue them with superglue-greens stuff-superglue-magnet. With this combo i can adjust the position/angle afterwards for some time even if the superglue is already dry. Be sure to mark your magnets, so you insert the magnets always in the same direction so you can swap arms between models.
For bigger stuff like hive tyrants with or without wings, exocrine/haruspex, toxicrene/maleceptor, harpy/hive crone, tyrannofex/tervigon its a bit trickier, because you often have to model the magnets inside hollow bodies. For them i use 4x2mm round neodym magnets. Works just fine and has enough power to hold the parts even with 1-2 mm plastic between.

Oh and finally do people paint their own schemes or are they following the Hive Fleet scheme to match their army?

I developed my own paint sheme, mainly because i didnt like the one from 2nd edition and it carried over to all following editions until today. Following the known hive fleet shemes is not really a disadvantage, because its nowhere written, that you have to paint your models appropriate, but sometimes you play against "that guy" who knows/tells you that your sheme is for example Leviathan and so you cant use kraken benefits... it happens seldom, but it can happen...

I would try to get a malanthrope or unit of venomthropes to shroud that warrior fire base, other than that looks good. For points I would drop the Broodlord first to fit the Malantrhope in.

Im looking at a tyrannofex with fleshborer hive, and this honestly seems like a comparable choice to the other options for my shooty army. With the +1 wound and damage stratagems it could easily pull ahead of the rupture cannon and acid spray in total damage. Plus it handles hordes way better than either.

It would certainly need more support and babysitting to work though. Definitely need a screen in front, something giving it onslaught so it can advance first turn and shoot, and plenty of command points to feed into its damage. It also won’t really shine til the second turn when it can stand still and pump out 48 shots, at which point it might already be focused down and crippled or dead.

 Badablack wrote:
Im looking at a tyrannofex with fleshborer hive, and this honestly seems like a comparable choice to the other options for my shooty army. With the +1 wound and damage stratagems it could easily pull ahead of the rupture cannon and acid spray in total damage. Plus it handles hordes way better than either.

It would certainly need more support and babysitting to work though. Definitely need a screen in front, something giving it onslaught so it can advance first turn and shoot, and plenty of command points to feed into its damage. It also won’t really shine til the second turn when it can stand still and pump out 48 shots, at which point it might already be focused down and crippled or dead.

Yea, Iæm not completely sold on the tyrannofex. I've been fielding him with kronos and a rupture cannon for a few games now and he's pretty underwhelming even with the rerolls 1's to hit. So i probably wouldn't build an army around him. especially not a 18'' weapon. He's pretty survivable though, but not really a threat I've found. When it comes to clearing of i'd much rather use the temagant trygon double shoot strat.

 killerpenguin wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
Im looking at a tyrannofex with fleshborer hive, and this honestly seems like a comparable choice to the other options for my shooty army. With the +1 wound and damage stratagems it could easily pull ahead of the rupture cannon and acid spray in total damage. Plus it handles hordes way better than either.

It would certainly need more support and babysitting to work though. Definitely need a screen in front, something giving it onslaught so it can advance first turn and shoot, and plenty of command points to feed into its damage. It also won’t really shine til the second turn when it can stand still and pump out 48 shots, at which point it might already be focused down and crippled or dead.

Yea, Iæm not completely sold on the tyrannofex. I've been fielding him with kronos and a rupture cannon for a few games now and he's pretty underwhelming even with the rerolls 1's to hit. So i probably wouldn't build an army around him. especially not a 18'' weapon. He's pretty survivable though, but not really a threat I've found. When it comes to clearing of i'd much rather use the temagant trygon double shoot strat.

Guy packs 6 lascannon shots at 230ish points. What's not to like?

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
Im looking at a tyrannofex with fleshborer hive, and this honestly seems like a comparable choice to the other options for my shooty army. With the +1 wound and damage stratagems it could easily pull ahead of the rupture cannon and acid spray in total damage. Plus it handles hordes way better than either.

It would certainly need more support and babysitting to work though. Definitely need a screen in front, something giving it onslaught so it can advance first turn and shoot, and plenty of command points to feed into its damage. It also won’t really shine til the second turn when it can stand still and pump out 48 shots, at which point it might already be focused down and crippled or dead.

Yea, Iæm not completely sold on the tyrannofex. I've been fielding him with kronos and a rupture cannon for a few games now and he's pretty underwhelming even with the rerolls 1's to hit. So i probably wouldn't build an army around him. especially not a 18'' weapon. He's pretty survivable though, but not really a threat I've found. When it comes to clearing of i'd much rather use the temagant trygon double shoot strat.

Guy packs 6 lascannon shots at 230ish points. What's not to like?

4+ BS

I would try to get a malanthrope or unit of venomthropes to shroud that warrior fire base, other than that looks good. For points I would drop the Broodlord first to fit the Malantrhope in.

Thanks for the advice!
I'll definitely look into those units.

Is the Broodlord really that bad?
I thought he'd do great with the unit of Genestealers

Overdose wrote:

I would try to get a malanthrope or unit of venomthropes to shroud that warrior fire base, other than that looks good. For points I would drop the Broodlord first to fit the Malantrhope in.

Thanks for the advice!
I'll definitely look into those units.

Is the Broodlord really that bad?
I thought he'd do great with the unit of Genestealers

He is OK. Amazing when he rends. He is a bit of a push over though, so use his character trait for full value. Glass cannon. Better in Leviathan or kraken.

Broodlord should have been like 130 points tbh. He's overcosted for what he does.

Yes he can do damage, but he's easy to kill and only improves your genestealers by 17.5%. I'd only field him if your running stealer spam (50+ genstealers).

What do you guys think of this list? (minor changes to previous- took out the Broodlord, added Malanthrope etc.)

And which Hive Fleet would I benefit from most?

Thanks everyone!

Fleet Kronos orv leviathan I gues. Perhaps jormunghard.

 killerpenguin wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
Im looking at a tyrannofex with fleshborer hive, and this honestly seems like a comparable choice to the other options for my shooty army. With the +1 wound and damage stratagems it could easily pull ahead of the rupture cannon and acid spray in total damage. Plus it handles hordes way better than either.

It would certainly need more support and babysitting to work though. Definitely need a screen in front, something giving it onslaught so it can advance first turn and shoot, and plenty of command points to feed into its damage. It also won’t really shine til the second turn when it can stand still and pump out 48 shots, at which point it might already be focused down and crippled or dead.

Yea, Iæm not completely sold on the tyrannofex. I've been fielding him with kronos and a rupture cannon for a few games now and he's pretty underwhelming even with the rerolls 1's to hit. So i probably wouldn't build an army around him. especially not a 18'' weapon. He's pretty survivable though, but not really a threat I've found. When it comes to clearing of i'd much rather use the temagant trygon double shoot strat.

Guy packs 6 lascannon shots at 230ish points. What's not to like?

4+ BS

That's still 3 lascannon hits per turn before Kraken reroll. That's kinda equivalent with 4 lascannons on a BS 3+ unit. The most cost efficient of them is probably devastators/havocs and that would take you to 100 pts for the four lascannons plus 60 pts for the 5 bodies in an MSU unit. 160 pts for equivalent shooting. For230 pts you get 14 wounds (vs 5), Toughness 8 (vs 4), +1 str on your gun so you can target Death Guard terminators if you feel like it, 8 extra heavy bolter-ish shots and far better hth potential. If both of them need to move for whatever reason, then their BS becomes the same and it's a difference of only 4 lascannons vs 3 lascannons.

I honestly believe that a Kronos list should begin with a rupture cannon T-fex (and two exocrines of course).


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 Eihnlazer wrote:
Broodlord should have been like 130 points tbh. He's overcosted for what he does.

Yes he can do damage, but he's easy to kill and only improves your genestealers by 17.5%. I'd only field him if your running stealer spam (50+ genstealers).

If Broodlord goes to 130 pts then I want the Prime down to 90.

What are everyone's 'go-to' layout for Warriors?

Units of 3 with Boneswords and Deathspitters?
Or do you like adding the Venom Cannons in?

Or maybe just kitting them to be melee-focused?
Since if they are kitted out to be in combat, Deathspitters won't be doing much once in combat so maybe Boneswords and Spinefists?

spinefists aren't good really. Unless you plan on first turn charging, and want to keep the unit really cheap.

I find that first turn charge warriors don't live past turn 2 so they are the only ones i'd put spinefists on.

Overdose wrote:
What are everyone's 'go-to' layout for Warriors?

Units of 3 with Boneswords and Deathspitters?
Or do you like adding the Venom Cannons in?

Or maybe just kitting them to be melee-focused?
Since if they are kitted out to be in combat, Deathspitters won't be doing much once in combat so maybe Boneswords and Spinefists?

I honestly think most warrior builds are good. 24 S5 is good enough you do not need the big cannons. Venom canons are OK, good range at 36 . Strangelthorn cannon also probably OK. Boneswords, lash and bone, scything tallons are all good. Best in leviqthan or jormunghard.

So how do we deal with the AM list of 40 guardsmen, 4 LRBT and Shadowsword?

I run my warriors with Scy Tals, 2x Deathspitters and 1 vennom cannon per 3. Usually take 6+ per unit. Normally use them as a fire base and let the GS, Flyrants, and Hormies close in to melee. Thats why I don't pay for the boneswords.

kill the guardsman, engage the russes in combat then pour firepower into the shadowsword, once its dead that games a cakewalk

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Broodlord should have been like 130 points tbh. He's overcosted for what he does.

Yes he can do damage, but he's easy to kill and only improves your genestealers by 17.5%. I'd only field him if your running stealer spam (50+ genstealers).

He definitely needs a price drop. A Hive Tyrant with Rending Claws has more wounds, a 4++ invul, an extra psychic power and a better armor save for an almost 20 point discount over the broodlord. (143pts vs 162).

I had a game today against world eaters against khorne daemons. Here's my list.




World eaters had: Kharne, apostle, lord, 3 units of berserkers in rhinos with flamers. 2x LC and ML helbrutes, 10+30 deep striking bloodletters with hq(bloodmaster?), 5 warp talons, 35 autogun cultists.

Tactical escalation, corner to corner deployment with the circle in the middle. He got the side with 3 objectives, He won the roll of, I didn't roll to seize.

World eaters DS 30x bloodletters, but struggled to get into combat with my genestealers, but killed a few. Knocked 6 wounds of my WL. Moved up a bit with rhinos, but didn't commit.

In my turn I DS the mawlocks deep in his ranks, rolled bad on the Mortal wounds, but took a wound on kharne, 2 on the lord and a killed a few cultists. Genestealers and hive tyrants knocked down most of the 30 blob, hive guard took down a rhino.

It ended with me wiping the board in the end of turn 5. with 19 to 5 points.

Key points were Genestealers 3xD6 pick the highest and add to movement. With this I don't really see the need for the swarmlord.

Used rapid regen two turns in a row on my WL, awesome stratagem.

Hive guard double shoot is just too good to leave out.

With 9 CPs you can really spam those CPs the first two rounds to get an advantage. The ones I've mentioned are the most important ones.

Mawlocs were mediocre, but they did give the enemy something to deal with turn 2. and it gave the genestealers, tyrants room and it kept the enemy away from the hive gurard.

All he managed to do all game was to kill one genestealer squad, knocked the warlord down to 3 wounds and cleared most of the termagant unit.

Gotta say I'm really happy with the list.

Tyran wrote:
So how do we deal with the AM list of 40 guardsmen, 4 LRBT and Shadowsword?

12x Neurothropes and 3x20 Hormaguants equals 1000 points. a Battlion and 3 Sureme Command Detachments which is roughly equivalent to a striped down AM list you've described. Run down the map and cast smite 12 times, charge the guardsmen while keeping your characters shielded. Consolidate into tanks and cast smite 12x repeat. If I saw an AM player run this I would definitely run he list described.

Resipsa131 wrote:

Tyran wrote:
So how do we deal with the AM list of 40 guardsmen, 4 LRBT and Shadowsword?

12x Neurothropes and 3x20 Hormaguants equals 1000 points. a Battlion and 3 Sureme Command Detachments which is roughly equivalent to a striped down AM list you've described. Run down the map and cast smite 12 times, charge the guardsmen while keeping your characters shielded. Consolidate into tanks and cast smite 12x repeat. If I saw an AM player run this I would definitely run he list described.

You probably wouldn't even be able to run that since it's four detachments. On top of that, the beta smite rule means nearly half of those neuros can't even cast smite and three of the ones that can will need a 10+ to cast.

Hive Guard double shooting is extremely strong, to the point that the difference between my ‘soft’ newbie fighting armies and ‘hard’ competitive armies is usually whether I include any or not.

I would say your Mawloc preformed pretty well tbh.

It's Mortal Wound ability isn't enough to kill anything with 4 or more wounds nor does it do much damage to units with several models. But the minute it comes up and does some damage to your opponent they are going to remember that.
Also, the more units your opponent has around each other the better this unit becomes.

I watched a battle last week and saw a Mawloc DS behind his opponent lines in-between his 3 Leman Russ's, Platoon command and Basilik. Didn't kill anything (did do 3 MW to the plat Commander though) but it did harm 5 units in the one go and it was literally the only thing the other guy shot at due to what it did and how it did it. It doesn't do that much damage when it arrives but it does distract your opponent from other units on the table. 104pt for something that has 2" DS as well as doing mortal wounds when DSing, T6, 12 wounds and 3+ save is a pretty good steal.

Overdose wrote:
What are everyone's 'go-to' layout for Warriors?

Units of 3 with Boneswords and Deathspitters?
Or do you like adding the Venom Cannons in?

Or maybe just kitting them to be melee-focused?
Since if they are kitted out to be in combat, Deathspitters won't be doing much once in combat so maybe Boneswords and Spinefists?

Deathspitters, venom cannons, scytal. Bone swords if I have the points/I think they will actually end up in melee.

RogueApiary wrote:

Resipsa131 wrote:

Tyran wrote:
So how do we deal with the AM list of 40 guardsmen, 4 LRBT and Shadowsword?

12x Neurothropes and 3x20 Hormaguants equals 1000 points. a Battlion and 2 Sureme Command Detachments which is roughly equivalent to a striped down AM list you've described. Run down the map and cast smite 12 times, charge the guardsmen while keeping your characters shielded. Consolidate into tanks and cast smite 12x repeat. If I saw an AM player run this I would definitely run he list described.

You probably wouldn't even be able to run that since it's four detachments. On top of that, the beta smite rule means nearly half of those neuros can't even cast smite and three of the ones that can will need a 10+ to cast.

I meant 3 detachments,1 battlion and 2 Supreme Command detachments will fit all of them. Beta Smite might not go through and even if it did you could just sub-out half of those for Primes.

 Badablack wrote:
Hive Guard double shooting is extremely strong, to the point that the difference between my ‘soft’ newbie fighting armies and ‘hard’ competitive armies is usually whether I include any or not.

No doubt, I see what you mean. They are one of the best units in our codex without a doubt, but you cant just leave them in the backfield to fend for themselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Odrankt wrote:
I would say your Mawloc preformed pretty well tbh.

It's Mortal Wound ability isn't enough to kill anything with 4 or more wounds nor does it do much damage to units with several models. But the minute it comes up and does some damage to your opponent they are going to remember that.
Also, the more units your opponent has around each other the better this unit becomes.

I watched a battle last week and saw a Mawloc DS behind his opponent lines in-between his 3 Leman Russ's, Platoon command and Basilik. Didn't kill anything (did do 3 MW to the plat Commander though) but it did harm 5 units in the one go and it was literally the only thing the other guy shot at due to what it did and how it did it. It doesn't do that much damage when it arrives but it does distract your opponent from other units on the table. 104pt for something that has 2" DS as well as doing mortal wounds when DSing, T6, 12 wounds and 3+ save is a pretty good steal.

Exactly my point! Its a huge distraction and they have to be dealt with.

I feel like they're the right addition to my list I dropped a rupture tyrannofex for them and I don't think i'll go back to the tfex. They combine perfectly with genestealer and hive tyrants. They fill the distraction carnifex role really well

I might be a broke record because I keep mentioning this on the tyranid forum when it comes up, and I see people talk about warriors again. Anyway, here is a neat trick:

The warriors with bone swords and lash whip is supricingly good, particurly in bigger groups. If you place them in the front you get an option when you get charged. You can kill the las whips when models are being removed. When the opponent piles in, because of how the timing works, he piles inn towards the lash whip boys.

The following step is optional. When you fight back you just try to not pile in to much. Keep more then 1" away from the other enemy models, but tryb to be within 1" of the lash whip warriors*. Now you can attack with the few attacks you have in CC, Then do not pile in.

When your turn starts you can now shoot with the warriors (and others) before the warriors charge in. Since you charge you can hit first. Essentially you are trading one turn of CC for one turn of shooting. With warriors being multi purpose that can go both ways. Although, if you can remain more then 1" near the lash whip models you stil get some combat.

Essentially it is very similar to screening with some gaunts vs charges. But warriors being a good and versatile unit can screen for itself. It is very good VS things that munch you in CC, like dreadnought close combat weapons, that kills you and you can not damage back because of a high T7 or T8. I asume hive tyrants with lash whips can be used similar to prevent piling in, although, not as impressive on one model units.

*Piling in near the lash whip warriors that are dead while stil being 1" from the enemy can be dificult as you always pile in towards the closest enemy.

 Niiai wrote:
I might be a broke record because I keep mentioning this on the tyranid forum when it comes up, and I see people talk about warriors again. Anyway, here is a neat trick:

The warriors with bone swords and lash whip is supricingly good, particurly in bigger groups. If you place them in the front you get an option when you get charged. You can kill the las whips when models are being removed. When the opponent piles in, because of how the timing works, he piles inn towards the lash whip boys.

The following step is optional. When you fight back you just try to not pile in to much. Keep more then 1" away from the other enemy models, but tryb to be within 1" of the lash whip warriors*. Now you can attack with the few attacks you have in CC, Then do not pile in.

When your turn starts you can now shoot with the warriors (and others) before the warriors charge in. Since you charge you can hit first. Essentially you are trading one turn of CC for one turn of shooting. With warriors being multi purpose that can go both ways. Although, if you can remain more then 1" near the lash whip models you stil get some combat.

Essentially it is very similar to screening with some gaunts vs charges. But warriors being a good and versatile unit can screen for itself. It is very good VS things that munch you in CC, like dreadnought close combat weapons, that kills you and you can not damage back because of a high T7 or T8. I asume hive tyrants with lash whips can be used similar to prevent piling in, although, not as impressive on one model units.

*Piling in near the lash whip warriors that are dead while stil being 1" from the enemy can be dificult as you always pile in towards the closest enemy.

I'm still new to the gaming aspect so I'm not quite sure what this means. Why is the 1" so important? If anyone could explain to a beginner that'd be awesome.

Also what are everyone's thoughts on the current Start Collecting box for Tyranids?
I would love to grab my hands on the old box (with Hive Tyrant, Warriors and Gargoyles) but they are long gone (in Australia at least, not sure about elsewhere).

Seems like Broodlord isn't seeing all that play.
Genestealers are nice.

Now it's the Mawloc/Trygon which I am very confused about.

I've been reading online and it seems like lots of people have mixed opinions on them.

What would be the best situation to take a Mawloc or Trygon?

ATM Broodlord is about 34 points overcosted, Prime needs to drop down to 93 base (and needs options to be a shrike or ravenor prime), Tyranocyte needs to drop to same price as sporocyst, and malanthrope is also overcosted by about 30 points (nerf was too much).

Other than that, I dont think i'd change anything in the codex.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Broodlord should have been like 130 points tbh. He's overcosted for what he does.

Yes he can do damage, but he's easy to kill and only improves your genestealers by 17.5%. I'd only field him if your running stealer spam (50+ genstealers).

He definitely needs a price drop. A Hive Tyrant with Rending Claws has more wounds, a 4++ invul, an extra psychic power and a better armor save for an almost 20 point discount over the broodlord. (143pts vs 162).

I just realized this. I always take the wings and upgraded weapons so never gave it a thought. But dang, that is way over priced like mentioned unless running GS spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone had any games vs the New Custodes yet? I hear they are pretty nasty, especially the shield guys and bikers. If you have played them what would you recommend is strong, weak, vs them. Anything to be aware of? Any good counters Nids have?

 Dynas wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Broodlord should have been like 130 points tbh. He's overcosted for what he does.

Yes he can do damage, but he's easy to kill and only improves your genestealers by 17.5%. I'd only field him if your running stealer spam (50+ genstealers).

He definitely needs a price drop. A Hive Tyrant with Rending Claws has more wounds, a 4++ invul, an extra psychic power and a better armor save for an almost 20 point discount over the broodlord. (143pts vs 162).

I just realized this. I always take the wings and upgraded weapons so never gave it a thought. But dang, that is way over priced like mentioned unless running GS spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone had any games vs the New Custodes yet? I hear they are pretty nasty, especially the shield guys and bikers. If you have played them what would you recommend is strong, weak, vs them. Anything to be aware of? Any good counters Nids have?

Not a Nidz player, but I think just spam Mortal Wounds would give you a easy time dealing them. Of course spam cheap bodys to hold them off for a few turns so your MW dealing can do the work. They are really low model count, so will lose combat efficiency very quick when you kill off a few of them. Hope you haven't implement Smite beta rule. lol lol.

 Dynas wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Broodlord should have been like 130 points tbh. He's overcosted for what he does.

Yes he can do damage, but he's easy to kill and only improves your genestealers by 17.5%. I'd only field him if your running stealer spam (50+ genstealers).

He definitely needs a price drop. A Hive Tyrant with Rending Claws has more wounds, a 4++ invul, an extra psychic power and a better armor save for an almost 20 point discount over the broodlord. (143pts vs 162).

I just realized this. I always take the wings and upgraded weapons so never gave it a thought. But dang, that is way over priced like mentioned unless running GS spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone had any games vs the New Custodes yet? I hear they are pretty nasty, especially the shield guys and bikers. If you have played them what would you recommend is strong, weak, vs them. Anything to be aware of? Any good counters Nids have?

I faced an admech list that had 3 custodes on bikes. They were pretty tough but flyrants were able to handle them fine. Mortal wounds of course stick nicely. My HVC flyrant killed one with lucky shooting. I haven't faced a full army of them though.

I imagine the +1 dmg strat on the 2x2 devouerer tyrant is good on custodes bikes, it’s are awesome on regular bikes. Biovores mawlocs and biovores is probably the way to go.

 killerpenguin wrote:
I imagine the +1 dmg strat on the 2x2 devouerer tyrant is good on custodes bikes, it’s are awesome on regular bikes. Biovores mawlocs and biovores is probably the way to go.

These were shield captains on jetbikes. They have 2+ saves and toughness 6. So you're likely to do nothing with devourers. 24 devourer shots with 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound will on average will allow 1 wound to get thru. They have 7 wounds each.

For me, the Miasma Cannon was very effective as a pre-combat gun to reduce their wounds a little. Then in melee the MRC could finish them off.

Smites were pretty effective but they do have an annoying 6+ save vs mortal wounds in the psychic phase.

For 160 pts, these guys are annoying. My opponent brought 3 in a supreme command detachment. They have hurricane bolters and 5 attacks at 2+ to hit, strength 6, AP -3, Damage D3 and reroll failed wound rolls when they charge. One of them managed to reach my Hive Guard and killed a few before the Swarmlord killed him. The other two were managed by Flyrants. I threw genestealers at the Admech.

I ran into Custodes bikers in a tourney recently. It was a Relic mission. I dropped 3 sporocysts in the middle of the field and pooped out 6 spore mines in a cluster around the relic every turn.

It...did not go well for the Custodes.

 Badablack wrote:
I ran into Custodes bikers in a tourney recently. It was a Relic mission. I dropped 3 sporocysts in the middle of the field and pooped out 6 spore mines in a cluster around the relic every turn.

It...did not go well for the Custodes.

"you see those mines blow up when you go near them, think of them as really large Speed Bumps for your bikes." lol

Had my first game with Tyranids new codex yesterday against Death Guard. Played ITC mission scoring. Ended up winning at the end of round 4 19-10. Learned some important lessons for sure, and also got a chance to try new things which actually turned out alright. Some of the DG units are just so damn resilient. Luckily they also tend to not put out a ton of damage and my opponent made a few key mistakes, but it was also our first time playing ITC, so it is quite understandable.

His list was essentially:

Nurgle Demon Prince Wings (with 2+ armor relic that when he makes a save on a 4+ roll he causes a mortal wound, SO GOOD) Also had warlord trait that at the beginning of every player turn he gets a wound back.
Typhus
Chaos Sorceror Termi armor
Nurgle Plaguecaster
Tallyman

30 man blob poxwalkers (basically used most of his spells to buff this unit out of control + typhus, str 5 tgh 5, reroll to hits with tallyman, +1 to wound rolls with spell)
15 cultists
2x 5 man plague marine squads w/ plasma
2 plaguedrones w/ spitters
2 plaguecrawlers (small guys) w/ multimelta, missile, and plaguespitter thing (basically gives cover bonus to units around them)
1 plagueburst crawler (large tank) with mortar, heavy stubber, and two entropy cannons
3 man deathshroud termis

My list:



The Battle:

poxwalkers cant have 30 models, max is 20.

Hey everyone, got a 40k league starting tomorrow and wanted some help on my 2k list. I'm not sure if i should go with the list below or swap out a Carni and 1 Genestealer for a Tyrannocyte for the Hive Guard. The terrain at the GW store is usually pretty good with a decent amount of line blocking, so i'm leaning towards this list with 2 Dakka Carnis.

 Dynas wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Broodlord should have been like 130 points tbh. He's overcosted for what he does.

Yes he can do damage, but he's easy to kill and only improves your genestealers by 17.5%. I'd only field him if your running stealer spam (50+ genstealers).

He definitely needs a price drop. A Hive Tyrant with Rending Claws has more wounds, a 4++ invul, an extra psychic power and a better armor save for an almost 20 point discount over the broodlord. (143pts vs 162).

I just realized this. I always take the wings and upgraded weapons so never gave it a thought. But dang, that is way over priced like mentioned unless running GS spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone had any games vs the New Custodes yet? I hear they are pretty nasty, especially the shield guys and bikers. If you have played them what would you recommend is strong, weak, vs them. Anything to be aware of? Any good counters Nids have?

MRC being free actually play a big part in this. If they were 14 points each like they should be, the broodlord would still be a bit overpriced, but not so much.

I wouldn't be surprised if something happens to MRC in the March FAQ.

Yeah, IMO it's just a matter of time before MRC get a point cost. Enjoy their freeness while it lasts.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Broodlord got it's points dropped by roughly the cost of the MRC so that it ends up costing about the same but the HT with MRC ends up going up in cost.


Well.. I would be surprised. Because thats the intelligent way to do it but GW isn't that intelligent.

thisgui wrote:
Hey everyone, got a 40k league starting tomorrow and wanted some help on my 2k list. I'm not sure if i should go with the list below or swap out a Carni and 1 Genestealer for a Tyrannocyte for the Hive Guard. The terrain at the GW store is usually pretty good with a decent amount of line blocking, so i'm leaning towards this list with 2 Dakka Carnis.

Spoiler:

Kraken Battalion
HQ
Hive Tyrant – Wings, Two Devourers with Brainleech worms, Monstrous Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Bio-Artefact: Chameleonic Mutation

Hive Tyrant – Wings, Heavy Venom Cannon – Bio Artefact: The Miasma Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

Neuropthrope

Troops
18x Genestealer – 18x Rending Claws, 4x Acid Maw
18x Genestealer – 18x Rending Claws, 4x Acid Maw
10x Termagant – 10x Flesborer

Kronos or Leviathan or Jorg Battalion

HQ
Hive Tyrant – WARLORD Wings, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech worms

Hive Tyrant – Wings, Two Devourers with Brainleech worms, Monstrous Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

Troops
3x Rippers
3x Rippers
3x Warriors – 3x Deathspitters, 3x Boneswords
Elites
6x Hive Guard – 6x Impaler Cannons
Heavy Support
Carnifex - 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech worms
Carnifex - 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech worms

I don't see the use for a tcyte for the hive guard. What i would look into if i was you is a bigger screen for them. 10 termagants seems a bit thin. I would probably swap out the warriors for termagants. Otherwise your list looks good. Alot of strong units there. I would go 2 tyrants with 4 devourers and 2 with 2 devourers and rending claws, but thats just a matter of preference. I've been running a double battlion like yours for a while, but i've been looking into making a brigade. Have a look if youre interested.

 killerpenguin wrote:

thisgui wrote:
Hey everyone, got a 40k league starting tomorrow and wanted some help on my 2k list. I'm not sure if i should go with the list below or swap out a Carni and 1 Genestealer for a Tyrannocyte for the Hive Guard. The terrain at the GW store is usually pretty good with a decent amount of line blocking, so i'm leaning towards this list with 2 Dakka Carnis.

Spoiler:

Kraken Battalion
HQ
Hive Tyrant – Wings, Two Devourers with Brainleech worms, Monstrous Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Bio-Artefact: Chameleonic Mutation

Hive Tyrant – Wings, Heavy Venom Cannon – Bio Artefact: The Miasma Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

Neuropthrope

Troops
18x Genestealer – 18x Rending Claws, 4x Acid Maw
18x Genestealer – 18x Rending Claws, 4x Acid Maw
10x Termagant – 10x Flesborer

Kronos or Leviathan or Jorg Battalion

HQ
Hive Tyrant – WARLORD Wings, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech worms

Hive Tyrant – Wings, Two Devourers with Brainleech worms, Monstrous Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

Troops
3x Rippers
3x Rippers
3x Warriors – 3x Deathspitters, 3x Boneswords
Elites
6x Hive Guard – 6x Impaler Cannons
Heavy Support
Carnifex - 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech worms
Carnifex - 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech worms

I don't see the use for a tcyte for the hive guard. What i would look into if i was you is a bigger screen for them. 10 termagants seems a bit thin. I would probably swap out the warriors for termagants. Otherwise your list looks good. Alot of strong units there. I would go 2 tyrants with 4 devourers and 2 with 2 devourers and rending claws, but thats just a matter of preference. I've been running a double battlion like yours for a while, but i've been looking into making a brigade. Have a look if youre interested.

Spoiler:

++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kronos

+ Heavy Support +

Biovores: 3x Biovore

Biovores: 2x Biovore

Biovores: Biovore

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, The Reaper of Obilterax, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Soul Hunger, Wings

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

Hive Tyrant: 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

Hive Tyrant: 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

Neurothrope

+ Elites +

Hive Guard
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon

Lictor: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

Lictor: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

+ Fast Attack +

Mucolid Spores: Mucolid Spore

Spore Mines: 3x Spore Mine

Spore Mines: 3x Spore Mine

+ Troops +

Genestealers: 5x Acid Maw
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Termagants: 15x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Termagants: 15x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Created with BattleScribe

Thanks for the feedback. I'm just worried about the Hive Guard getting alpha'd, whether that be artillery that doesn't require LOS or simply poor terrain and I can't fully hide them. If i add some more screens, do you think Kronos is the best Hive Fleet for that detachment? It helps them the most but probably wouldn't effect the carnifex's until turn two or 3 when they're in range.

thisgui wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:

thisgui wrote:
Hey everyone, got a 40k league starting tomorrow and wanted some help on my 2k list. I'm not sure if i should go with the list below or swap out a Carni and 1 Genestealer for a Tyrannocyte for the Hive Guard. The terrain at the GW store is usually pretty good with a decent amount of line blocking, so i'm leaning towards this list with 2 Dakka Carnis.

Spoiler:

Kraken Battalion
HQ
Hive Tyrant – Wings, Two Devourers with Brainleech worms, Monstrous Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Bio-Artefact: Chameleonic Mutation

Hive Tyrant – Wings, Heavy Venom Cannon – Bio Artefact: The Miasma Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

Neuropthrope

Troops
18x Genestealer – 18x Rending Claws, 4x Acid Maw
18x Genestealer – 18x Rending Claws, 4x Acid Maw
10x Termagant – 10x Flesborer

Kronos or Leviathan or Jorg Battalion

HQ
Hive Tyrant – WARLORD Wings, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech worms

Hive Tyrant – Wings, Two Devourers with Brainleech worms, Monstrous Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

Troops
3x Rippers
3x Rippers
3x Warriors – 3x Deathspitters, 3x Boneswords
Elites
6x Hive Guard – 6x Impaler Cannons
Heavy Support
Carnifex - 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech worms
Carnifex - 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech worms

I don't see the use for a tcyte for the hive guard. What i would look into if i was you is a bigger screen for them. 10 termagants seems a bit thin. I would probably swap out the warriors for termagants. Otherwise your list looks good. Alot of strong units there. I would go 2 tyrants with 4 devourers and 2 with 2 devourers and rending claws, but thats just a matter of preference. I've been running a double battlion like yours for a while, but i've been looking into making a brigade. Have a look if youre interested.

Spoiler:

++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kronos

+ Heavy Support +

Biovores: 3x Biovore

Biovores: 2x Biovore

Biovores: Biovore

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, The Reaper of Obilterax, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Soul Hunger, Wings

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

Hive Tyrant: 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

Hive Tyrant: 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

Neurothrope

+ Elites +

Hive Guard
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon

Lictor: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

Lictor: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

+ Fast Attack +

Mucolid Spores: Mucolid Spore

Spore Mines: 3x Spore Mine

Spore Mines: 3x Spore Mine

+ Troops +

Genestealers: 5x Acid Maw
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Termagants: 15x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Termagants: 15x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Created with BattleScribe

Thanks for the feedback. I'm just worried about the Hive Guard getting alpha'd, whether that be artillery that doesn't require LOS or simply poor terrain and I can't fully hide them. If i add some more screens, do you think Kronos is the best Hive Fleet for that detachment? It helps them the most but probably wouldn't effect the carnifex's until turn two or 3 when they're in range.

I also suggest you to take a Malanthrope instead of the HT in the 2nd detachment, to protect your Hive Guard from alpha strike, at least a little more.

I'm playing in a league soon. My opponents in the first wave of the League will be Death Guard (first opponent), Custodes and Chaos - it'll be some tough armies to go up against.

I'm tring a 2K Kronos KRAKEN (sorry) Genestealer spam list in a league - my initial though is three units of 20 Genestealers with 2 broodlords. Allying with Genestealer Cult (20 more Purestrain Stealers and a Primus for ambushing shenanigans, single Acolyte squad) and either an IG Baneblade (as an allied Brood Brothers/ImpGuard SH Aux Detachment), or adding Leman Russes to the Cult.

The only other 'Nid models I own are a ton more Genestealers, Ripper swarms, a hive tyrant, a handful of lictors and a ton of spore mines. I have a ton of Guard stuff I can use too for Brood Brothers.

Any advice?

A single 3-man squad of rippers held in reserve will work wonders in objective games. They’ve clutch won me more matches than any other unit.

 Alessander wrote:
I'm playing in a league soon. My opponents in the first wave of the League will be Death Guard (first opponent), Custodes and Chaos - it'll be some tough armies to go up against.

I'm tring a 2K Kronos Genestealer spam list in a league - my initial though is three units of 20 Genestealers with 2 broodlords. Allying with Genestealer Cult (20 more Purestrain Stealers and a Primus for ambushing shenanigans, single Acolyte squad) and either an IG Baneblade (as an allied Brood Brothers/ImpGuard SH Aux Detachment), or adding Leman Russes to the Cult.

The only other 'Nid models I own are a ton more Genestealers, Ripper swarms, a hive tyrant, a handful of lictors and a ton of spore mines. I have a ton of Guard stuff I can use too for Brood Brothers.

Any advice?

Why would you play Kronos if you want to spam genestealers? Kronos is the shooting adaptation.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Alessander wrote:
I'm playing in a league soon. My opponents in the first wave of the League will be Death Guard (first opponent), Custodes and Chaos - it'll be some tough armies to go up against.

I'm tring a 2K Kronos Genestealer spam list in a league - my initial though is three units of 20 Genestealers with 2 broodlords. Allying with Genestealer Cult (20 more Purestrain Stealers and a Primus for ambushing shenanigans, single Acolyte squad) and either an IG Baneblade (as an allied Brood Brothers/ImpGuard SH Aux Detachment), or adding Leman Russes to the Cult.

The only other 'Nid models I own are a ton more Genestealers, Ripper swarms, a hive tyrant, a handful of lictors and a ton of spore mines. I have a ton of Guard stuff I can use too for Brood Brothers.

Any advice?

Why would you play Kronos if you want to spam genestealers? Kronos is the shooting adaptation.

Maybe because of the psychic denial stratagem. He closes in fast with genestealers, but yeah, good question if its worth it.

 DaBraken wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Alessander wrote:
I'm playing in a league soon. My opponents in the first wave of the League will be Death Guard (first opponent), Custodes and Chaos - it'll be some tough armies to go up against.

I'm tring a 2K Kronos Genestealer spam list in a league - my initial though is three units of 20 Genestealers with 2 broodlords. Allying with Genestealer Cult (20 more Purestrain Stealers and a Primus for ambushing shenanigans, single Acolyte squad) and either an IG Baneblade (as an allied Brood Brothers/ImpGuard SH Aux Detachment), or adding Leman Russes to the Cult.

The only other 'Nid models I own are a ton more Genestealers, Ripper swarms, a hive tyrant, a handful of lictors and a ton of spore mines. I have a ton of Guard stuff I can use too for Brood Brothers.

Any advice?

Why would you play Kronos if you want to spam genestealers? Kronos is the shooting adaptation.

Maybe because of the psychic denial stratagem. He closes in fast with genestealers, but yeah, good question if its worth it.

Kraken genestealers would close in a lot faster. And dead men cast no spells. If you want Kronos psychic denial, get yourself a spearhead with some biovores and send your mines 48" away to block incoming psychic signals for free

Ooops I meant Kraken, not Kronos. I havn't played any non-Eldar in 8th ed yet so my terminology is off.

Would it be better just go to heavy Genestealer Cult instead of Tyranid Kraken? The Tyranids stratagems are far more flexible IMHO...

thisgui wrote:
Hey everyone, got a 40k league starting tomorrow and wanted some help on my 2k list. I'm not sure if i should go with the list below or swap out a Carni and 1 Genestealer for a Tyrannocyte for the Hive Guard. The terrain at the GW store is usually pretty good with a decent amount of line blocking, so i'm leaning towards this list with 2 Dakka Carnis.

Spoiler:

Kraken Battalion
HQ
Hive Tyrant – Wings, Two Devourers with Brainleech worms, Monstrous Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Bio-Artefact: Chameleonic Mutation

Hive Tyrant – Wings, Heavy Venom Cannon – Bio Artefact: The Miasma Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

Neuropthrope

Troops
18x Genestealer – 18x Rending Claws, 4x Acid Maw
18x Genestealer – 18x Rending Claws, 4x Acid Maw
10x Termagant – 10x Flesborer

Kronos or Leviathan or Jorg Battalion

HQ
Hive Tyrant – WARLORD Wings, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech worms

Hive Tyrant – Wings, Two Devourers with Brainleech worms, Monstrous Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

Troops
3x Rippers
3x Rippers
3x Warriors – 3x Deathspitters, 3x Boneswords
Elites
6x Hive Guard – 6x Impaler Cannons
Heavy Support
Carnifex - 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech worms
Carnifex - 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech worms

They are very different styles.

I would take something like this.
Flyrant - MRC, HVC, AG, TS, Warlord
Flyrant - MRC, HVC, AG, TS,
Rippers 3x
Rippers 3x
GS 19x (if playing ITC) otherwise take 20
Hive Guard 6x
Fill this with whatever you want.

For fleets either pick kronos or kraken.