zedmeister wrote: Wow, they've gone to flat rate shipping for UK. Nice! About time, that 12% tax was brutal
And about two weeks ago I caved and made an order that cost me about £12 in shipping. Oh well, at least at a standard of £3.50 going onwards I can actually justify it to myself now. That 12% was so goddamn stupid.
I don't buy a lot of Forgeworld, and when I do it's almost always at the bigger events like Adepticon and Nova, so I'm used to going by the catalog for prices.
Which seems to work out now, because most things took a small price drop from the catalog. So there's that!
Glad I placed one last big other for a while last week. Finally got the GUO, comes out to like $160 last week using the original price, but he's $190 US. We did a big enough order for the express shipping, it'll be better on Friday. I don't think I need the orders to come faster than that, certainly not for the price hike. Going to make Titanicus support a little rocky.
So the new Scoria has a 20% price hike if you pay with US dollars, instead of using the real conversion rate? Cool models but I hate being ripped off on a luxury product of an already luxury product.
The price hikes are roughly 15% here in Canada. I ordered some Aquilon Terminators two weeks ago, and it ended up costing me about 107$ after taxes and shipping, If I were to make the same order today, it would cost me 137$...
Here in Sweden our currency has gone to gak and is very low against the GBP. However, this means that the price hike hasn't affected us much, the price in Swedish krona is only about 3% higher than in GBP. But as soon as the krona recovers the difference will be enormous.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Leviathan body in Oz is 33% more expensive than UK.
The £18 Necro Bounty Hunters are 66% more expensive in Oz.
Mastodon is AUD$720 before shipping, when yesterday it was AUD$550.
I think I'm going to write FW a letter...
If I were you I would probably ragequit FW at this point, although I guess you guys are used to the same from GW... or source from other places.
The thing is, I can get a flat 20% off GW prices no issue. So that doesn't bother me.
Forge World only has one source (two once they get their US set up operational). We are now paying more for the same product, but it's coming from the same location, to the same location. That's insane. That's... just wrong.
To get FW cheaper you basically have to go to shall we call them "unofficial" vendors. I hate that that's the only way forward. Such options shouldn't be viable. Worse, they shouldn't be the only viable option.
On their Facebook page they stated that you won't have to pay import taxes, as you are charged in the local currency.
I know this isn't true for the EU when receiving from outside the EU, regardless of currency used.
But is it true for you AUS/NZ guys?
Because that probably would make up for a bit of the price increase.
The most I have ever paid for import taxes was when we did a combined order that went above the tax threshold. It cost us an extra 10% of the cost of the order. It was painful, but we learned our lesson and kept our orders to beneath that ever since.
10% is significantly lower than the (now average) 50% price increase FW are lumping on us (worse in NZ, less so in other places such as some EU countries and Canadia).
The changes work out well for us here in the UK. The % shipping was BS, the switch to a flat rate will see me making more smaller orders, instead of saving up wanted items and maybe making 1 order every other year.
Rest of the world seems to have been screwed by GW's BS made up conversion rates.
Sad because it's killed my interest in pursuing my FW armies only to be ripped off for the privilege/sin of living in another country.
I need to go away from all this right now, it's soured my day and soured my recent positive view of GW. I'm a married professional, my wife works full time, we have no kids and few overheads and I am struggling to justify the expense.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Leviathan body in Oz is 33% more expensive than UK.
The £18 Necro Bounty Hunters are 66% more expensive in Oz.
Mastodon is AUD$720 before shipping, when yesterday it was AUD$550.
I think I'm going to write FW a letter...
You should. So should everyone else complaining (justly!) about it; I wouldn't be surprised if this was out of pure incompetence, so there's a chance that enough complaints, with examples like yours, will help.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Leviathan body in Oz is 33% more expensive than UK.
The £18 Necro Bounty Hunters are 66% more expensive in Oz.
Mastodon is AUD$720 before shipping, when yesterday it was AUD$550.
I think I'm going to write FW a letter...
You should. So should everyone else complaining (justly!) about it; I wouldn't be surprised if this was out of pure incompetence, so there's a chance that enough complaints, with examples like yours, will help.
I don't think it is. This is them returning prices to pre Brexit levels.
From GW's point of view the FW prices fell by about 15% generally for the rest of the world. A decreasing pound doesn't alter how much someone in the US is willing to pay for an item for example.
They control prices in foreign markets for core products so no matter how far the pound falls, a foreign market is constant. They've just changed FW to this model and put prices back to pre Brexit levels that they consider to be appropriate in other markets (essentially reversing currency based price lowering).
Obviously people are free to disagree that those prices are appropriate or not - FW is generally too rich for my blood too - but its obviously not a mistake.
Having everything displayed in dollars really makes me realize how overpriced FW is, $100 for 5 Sekhmet terminators, and that's just a conversion kit!
Fortunately I still have family in England so I can just order stuff through them if I need a big order though getting it shipped over to Canada will probably kill any money saved.
Like Vorian says though, these seem like pre Brexit prices to me anyway, I certainly took advantage of the crumbling British economy while I could but all good things have to come to an end!
Like many other UK commenters, I’m really happy about the £3.50 flat rate postage instead of the 12% charge. It means I will be much more likely to order from them now rather than saving up to get the free shipping.
rivers3162 wrote: Like many other UK commenters, I’m really happy about the £3.50 flat rate postage instead of the 12% charge. It means I will be much more likely to order from them now rather than saving up to get the free shipping.
In Canada, the shipping cost for an Index went from £4.50 to $26 - so roughly quadruple for something to be shipping from the new US warehouse compared to shipping it from the UK.
It's €8,- shipping for the Netherlands now as opposed to the 15% it was then. YMMV, but this may be the only silver lining with the new pricing system.
SeanDrake wrote: On the plus side uk buyers are no longer subsidising shipping for row and free shipping.
I’m pretty sure that was never true. ROW buyers paid the same price as UK buyers, which meant they were already paying a premium because of the built-in VAT of 20% that isn’t supposed to be charged to ex-EU customers. Being generous we might say that THAT was subsidizing ROW shipping.
Now the prices for overseas buyers are even higher because they use a UK price inclusive of VAT multiplied by a fictitious exchange rate to save us “faffing around” with all those difficult currency conversions. Thanks, Forge World, but no thanks. I’d rather have done the math myself and not gotten completely ripped off in the process.
As a slight aside, I’m sure that one of the necron constructs has gone up in price from £45 to £54 in the last few weeks! I’m sure that both were £45 but now the Tomb Sentinel is more than the Stalker.
rivers3162 wrote: As a slight aside, I’m sure that one of the necron constructs has gone up in price from £45 to £54 in the last few weeks! I’m sure that both were £45 but now the Tomb Sentinel is more than the Stalker.
While it sucks for you guys overseas being given the GW exchange shafting. I would question if this is really a forgeworld only decision or does this hint towards GW managment finally having confidence and bringing forgeworld back into the fold instead of pushing them out.
If it is GW accepting Forgeworld and making them more mainstream I'm all for that.
Yea, this blows. Was looking at placing an order, but was waiting for Alpharius and the legion terminators to come back into stock. The old free shipping requirement wasn't a huge deal for me because I normally only placed an order twice a year.
On to small silver linings on this, doing some price comparisons of GW vs FW conversions. GW seems to be using around 1.67 USD/GBP. FW is using about 1.55 USD/GBP. It's like getting kicked in the junk and while keeled over, seeing a buck on the ground
hotsauceman1 wrote: This will honestly push more people to buy recasts or not at all.
Another fail by FW that is making all the wrong moves.
Yeah, I'm a bit confused on what the strategy is here - so now customers are paying more for a smaller selection of stock that hasn't had any improvement in quality.
Commander Cain wrote: Having everything displayed in dollars really makes me realize how overpriced FW is, $100 for 5 Sekhmet terminators, and that's just a conversion kit!
You don't understand. The prices for countries outside the UK have increased. Before, we'd pay the price in £'s and now we pay an adjusted price similar to what GW has been charging the US since the Brexit vote and Australia since forever.
Two days ago, Anacharis Scoria was listed at £80 which converts to US $103.27. Now it lists at $124.00 because... why? The Warlord Titan cost $1,670.00 last week and today costs $2,000.00. It's like they want people to buy from recasters.
Forge World was pricey before but they are not even a consideration now.
I'm so glad to see this change. Being able to buy in USD is amazing, who cares if I have to pay 10-20% more when I can avoid that 3% currency conversion fee? Truly the most customer-focused change ever in the history of business.
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Vorian wrote: A decreasing pound doesn't alter how much someone in the US is willing to pay for an item for example.
No, but it does make us more willing to buy something if it's cheaper. A lot of people put in large FW orders when the exchange rate hit a favorable peak. But now people outside the UK get to pay a non-UK tax, buying the exact same item at a much higher price because FW apparently hopes that nobody realizes they're using an exchange rate purely from their own greedy imaginations.
This is a terrible anti consumer change, there is no reason for AUD to be 30-50% more expensive when the currency conversion does not match that hugely inflated rate.
Vorian wrote: I don't think it is. This is them returning prices to pre Brexit levels.
From GW's point of view the FW prices fell by about 15% generally for the rest of the world. A decreasing pound doesn't alter how much someone in the US is willing to pay for an item for example.
They control prices in foreign markets for core products so no matter how far the pound falls, a foreign market is constant. They've just changed FW to this model and put prices back to pre Brexit levels that they consider to be appropriate in other markets (essentially reversing currency based price lowering).
Obviously people are free to disagree that those prices are appropriate or not - FW is generally too rich for my blood too - but its obviously not a mistake.
So you think it's reasonable that I pay 30%-60% more for the same product coming from the same factory?
Vorian wrote: I don't think it is. This is them returning prices to pre Brexit levels.
From GW's point of view the FW prices fell by about 15% generally for the rest of the world. A decreasing pound doesn't alter how much someone in the US is willing to pay for an item for example.
They control prices in foreign markets for core products so no matter how far the pound falls, a foreign market is constant. They've just changed FW to this model and put prices back to pre Brexit levels that they consider to be appropriate in other markets (essentially reversing currency based price lowering).
Obviously people are free to disagree that those prices are appropriate or not - FW is generally too rich for my blood too - but its obviously not a mistake.
So you think it's reasonable that I pay 30%-60% more for the same product coming from the same factory?
That's not what he said. He said that it wasn't a mistake, not that it was reasonable. His comment is about "GW's point of view" and what he believes their justification for this action is.
GW realized that there was some untapped revenue here - without realizing that FW sales are most likely about to take a massive hit - at least from a ROW perspective.
When/if this happens, I wonder if they'll really understand why though?
Vorian wrote: I don't think it is. This is them returning prices to pre Brexit levels.
From GW's point of view the FW prices fell by about 15% generally for the rest of the world. A decreasing pound doesn't alter how much someone in the US is willing to pay for an item for example.
They control prices in foreign markets for core products so no matter how far the pound falls, a foreign market is constant. They've just changed FW to this model and put prices back to pre Brexit levels that they consider to be appropriate in other markets (essentially reversing currency based price lowering).
Obviously people are free to disagree that those prices are appropriate or not - FW is generally too rich for my blood too - but its obviously not a mistake.
So you think it's reasonable that I pay 30%-60% more for the same product coming from the same factory?
That's not what he said. His comment is about "GW's point of view" and what he believes their justification for this action is.
Basically a slightly less extreme version of the high end fashionable makes that would rather burn stock than allow it to be sold for less.
It's insanely wasteful and morality of it is way out there but as a private company they are within some legal limits allowed to do what they like. Charging a 200% mark up is unfortunately one of those thing's.
But hey the other option if the prices are super shonky look at Aus NZ prices it's possibly cheaper to have someone in the UK buy the model then ship it to you in aus than actually pay GW what are they smoking mark ups.
Lucky euro users. Fairly minimal change. For here if I bought 66e or less before or free shipping it hurts most(about 9%). If I bought for somewhat over 100e new system is pretty much +-0. Around 150e or more until free shipping new is actually cheaper.
Overall to my life fairly minor issue. Boss delaying decision when this years holidays are held cost me more than decade's worth of FW purchaces with this system costs me at most(would need to spend 6000€ or so to FW for this price hike to equal loss).
Poor australians though. Those people have it rough. First GW and now FW kicking them down there.
Mysterio wrote: GW realized that there was some untapped revenue here - without realizing that FW sales are most likely about to take a massive hit - at least from a ROW perspective.
Next year's financials will be worth checking to see if this actually happens.
Mysterio wrote: GW realized that there was some untapped revenue here - without realizing that FW sales are most likely about to take a massive hit - at least from a ROW perspective.
Next year's financials will be worth checking to see if this actually happens.
Do they actually report profits by division and then UK vs ROW?
The other fun thing is that the 1.6ish usd per pound rate is based on UK prices with the vat baked in, while at the same time we are paying us sales tax as well. Barring something spectacular, my direct orders to fw are probably.over.
angryboy2k wrote: Now the prices for overseas buyers are even higher because they use a UK price inclusive of VAT multiplied by a fictitious exchange rate to save us “faffing around” with all those difficult currency conversions.
I think that bit was a bonafide marketing misstep. *Much better* to say nothing than try to spin a price hike that way. I know I got a ridiculous mental image of an flummoxed infomercial actor banging on a keyboard in exaggerated despair. It's the kind of hamfisted message you associate with the last years of the Kirby era.
I think FW will do just fine with all these Specialist Games leading to FW sales. But I'm not surprised that some customers are unhappy with them.
Peregrine wrote: I bet the recasters are happy though, when the price of legal kits just went up considerably.
Probably, although I'm sure that axing basic products makes them even happier.
I'm not surprised that they brought FW pricing in line with GW proper. It's been a long time coming, and we know how GW has been historically with their pricing and margins. They like 'em big and fat, respectively. The spin is what really made me cringe. Pro tip -- don't do that.
Peregrine wrote: I bet the recasters are happy though, when the price of legal kits just went up considerably.
The funny thing is, some of the recaster quality is better than FW and they don't just slather everything in release agent. So now I can move 100% of my purchases to recasters.
Mysterio wrote: GW realized that there was some untapped revenue here - without realizing that FW sales are most likely about to take a massive hit - at least from a ROW perspective.
Next year's financials will be worth checking to see if this actually happens.
Do they actually report profits by division and then UK vs ROW?
Yes and no.
FW is classed as direct sales, excluding their stores. So it gets reported in a lump with GW.com and Black Library.
So if revenue falls for that segment, then yes, it'll probably be this, but there'll be nothing in black and white to explicitly confirm it.
It is nice to see them move to a reasonable system for shipping pricing. (I.e the same system basically every business in the world has used for as long as the internet has existed).
But the price increases of the actual product sadly does make it quite prohibitively expensive for many to buy legal FW
It probably doesn't matter much to me; I voted with my wallet against buying Forge World a long time ago - but the primary reason was the poor quality (the Storm Eagle was the final nail in the coffin for me: mold release everywhere, twisted, ill-fitting components, stuff that looked like it had only partially filled the mold so the casters topped it up, stuff that looked like the mold had been squashed before the casting had set...). Folks are right when they comment on recasters being better - of course there are those who produce cheap and nasty stuff that smells like petroleum, but there are also a few out there who are much cheaper than FW and produce a significantly better quality product to boot.
I'm happy to buy plastic upgrades for my Adeptus Titanicus products, but if Forge World was going to try and tempt me back with resin upgrades, this foreign spite tax helps ensure I will remain strong in my commitment not to buy their stuff.
I don't get how they could think increased prices would be a good idea. If anything they should have dropped prices by 10-15%. Most FW fans would love prices that would allow them to binge buy or impulse buy. I would love to just be able to jump on FW's website and throw money at whatever conversion idea I have but once the price tallies up I just clear the basket and move on.
I agree with other posters that the recaster business is going to boom. Especially the ones that really do produce better product than FW.
BrotherGecko wrote: I I agree with other posters that the recaster business is going to boom. Especially the ones that really do produce better product than FW.
Not only that but some stores in Canada, Australia, and the US are talking about another ban on Forge World.
It was already expensive, and people are angry- and the Forge World Social Media guy on Facebook must have blisters and carpal tunnel at the rate he's having to remove comments from people showing the price difference from before today's changes. I don't even have Facebook and it's a good thing because I would not have pleasant things to say about this.
While it doesn't impact them in a big way, my small sub-group (the 8-10 guys I normally play with) are all laughing at the price increases. Any chance of business they had is long gone, unfortunately.
I do think there are enough people with money who don't notice/care that it won't be a huge impact on them, but they are undoing a ton of good will they've built recently. In the local community, even outside my group the general consensus is "Awwww, GW...and you were doing so good!". This coupled with the high price of AT starter, etc. Not a great month for them.
The only way I'm buying FW now is through friends/people I know that would somehow manage to visit one of UKs expos, or go through Nottingham. I'm NOT paying 8 euros out of air for a pack of Thallax. I'm just glad I've been panic buying since they first announced this new system, so I managed to get pretty much everything I've ever wanted from them.
Elbows wrote: While it doesn't impact them in a big way, my small sub-group (the 8-10 guys I normally play with) are all laughing at the price increases. Any chance of business they had is long gone, unfortunately.
My friend is a Tournament Organizer and hosts at least one tournament a month.
Today he showed me a 'before' and 'after' of his tournament rules.
Before, the rules were "No counterfeit, imitation, or replica models are allowed" (Third party components for conversions were always welcome, as were proxies for models that have long since been discontinued)
Today it says "Proxy models are must reflect, with a reasonable measure of accuracy and similar dimensions, the model they are intended to represent"
Because we're not calling them 'Recasts' here any more. From this point forward, they are very interesting proxy models from overseas.
I still don't get who at GW thought this was a good idea - on a day that should have seen them take record order from FW due to a lower and fairer postage system; they raised the prices for every other country on high priced goods and shot themselves in the foot. Instead of lower they've raised the price and for what gain?
That's what I don't get. They've spent good money setting up overseas wearhousing for a market that they just dried up. If customers were not buying before due to price how can GW management think they'll be buying now by raising the prices so significantly?
After a year or more of generally very good management choices they've burned a lot today internationally. The UK market is fine (actually happy with lower postage costs); but the rest of the market and world (including the very large USA market) is angry.
One can only hope someone at GW pushes through a change in policy here otherwise its a daft move.
I've sent fw an email, cleared my cart on the website that I was planning g on making my next purchase, and do not plan to purchase anything from FW from the website now. Maybe I can use the 40k sharing group on fb if 8 want to get anything in the future.
The only thing I can see that might 'justify' this is that they're rolling in the expense of 'free shipping at 250 quid' into the cost of the model. Easier to calculate the shipping cost when you're pricing everything by the region its being sold to.
It's a crappy, crappy way of doing things. Charge what it costs and get rid of 'free' shipping entirely.
Ok, let me explain why GW know they'll get away with it.
FW is a tiny part of GW's overall revenue stream.
GW proper has been operating this system now for some time.
They opened a Facebook page and previewed some models and now they're making more money than ever. They're literally selling models faster than they can make them.
The hike in pricing will offset a remarkably pessimistic drop in business, a drop that they're unlikely to actually experience for very long, if at all.
People will protest, but not by withholding actual funds, and therefore it won't matter.
The drop in sales won't hit GW central lines at all - they might lose one or two customers who are really irate about it, but barring that they won't lose out there.
Where it loses out though is the investment they've made under the FW name and its the FW international sales that will suffer as a result. Whilst its a smaller wing of GW proper its a wing that GW has ploughed money into in this last year. They've added several specialist game lines to it and also have founded a new Sigmar team as well. GW clearly wants FW to work and profit and I think more than ever they want it to be more than just a lot of space marine stuff.
So there will be a real financial hit for this and it will hit FW itself which is, basically, GW in itself.
It's also a lot more marked for these products because the prices are so much higher so the markups are now measured in the hundreds for some. Those are not small increases but big ones; way beyond postage costs. In fact it creates a system that either encourages UK buying and private export or recaster support.
They've basically "solved" the international postage price system with a method that backfires. I mean unless their intent was to crash international sales..
Overread wrote: The drop in sales won't hit GW central lines at all - they might lose one or two customers who are really irate about it, but barring that they won't lose out there.
Where it loses out though is the investment they've made under the FW name and its the FW international sales that will suffer as a result. Whilst its a smaller wing of GW proper its a wing that GW has ploughed money into in this last year. They've added several specialist game lines to it and also have founded a new Sigmar team as well. GW clearly wants FW to work and profit and I think more than ever they want it to be more than just a lot of space marine stuff.
So there will be a real financial hit for this and it will hit FW itself which is, basically, GW in itself.
It's also a lot more marked for these products because the prices are so much higher so the markups are now measured in the hundreds for some. Those are not small increases but big ones; way beyond postage costs. In fact it creates a system that either encourages UK buying and private export or recaster support.
They've basically "solved" the international postage price system with a method that backfires. I mean unless their intent was to crash international sales..
You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
This will be no different.
Not to mention new people won't ever know any different, and will already be accustomed to paying a premium based on geography.
This will be a blip, if that, then it'll self correct.
Welp, any plans for new DKoK models this year are out the window.
In fact, probably ever at these prices.
EDIT: Jesus...a single two-man DKoK heavy weapons team is now as much as an entire plastic cadian Heavy Weapons *squad*. $50 for a single Laser Destroyer? Almost $160 for a single artillery carriage with crew?
Overread wrote: The drop in sales won't hit GW central lines at all - they might lose one or two customers who are really irate about it, but barring that they won't lose out there.
Where it loses out though is the investment they've made under the FW name and its the FW international sales that will suffer as a result. Whilst its a smaller wing of GW proper its a wing that GW has ploughed money into in this last year. They've added several specialist game lines to it and also have founded a new Sigmar team as well. GW clearly wants FW to work and profit and I think more than ever they want it to be more than just a lot of space marine stuff.
So there will be a real financial hit for this and it will hit FW itself which is, basically, GW in itself.
It's also a lot more marked for these products because the prices are so much higher so the markups are now measured in the hundreds for some. Those are not small increases but big ones; way beyond postage costs. In fact it creates a system that either encourages UK buying and private export or recaster support.
They've basically "solved" the international postage price system with a method that backfires. I mean unless their intent was to crash international sales..
You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
This will be no different.
Not to mention new people won't ever know any different, and will already be accustomed to paying a premium based on geography.
This will be a blip, if that, then it'll self correct.
Might be might not be; I agree people will try to get around this; grey importing (ergo second hand sales from the UK to overseas) will likely spark up on the higher priced items where the price difference is measured in hundreds.
The cheaper items will likely settle after a time; however I think it will be quite a long blip. Plus I think its the kind of blip that will really harm the warehousing, staff and sock that FW has clearly invested in for this launch. That in itself will increase this blip event in the financial figures; at least in the short run.
Also it will be more of a serious blip than on core GW products because FW was always the optional boutique line. So its a lot easier to be ignored - at least for the core range (specialist products might survive this better as they are mostly lower priced items and thus the rise isn't as extreme)
And I sold my Adeptus Custodes Achillus Dreadnought that I bought for 40€ from a guy in UK (It was a legit FW product) to a friend because he really wanted it and needed it for a tournament... and I was planning to buy it back at some point in the future directly from FW...
Now it is 70€ on the website... I know that... at the end of the day, 35€, or 70€, isn't really that much money.
I've been considering buying some FW goodies for my Imperial Guard a few weeks now. I postponed ordering when I heard they were revamping ordering thinking the new system would be better. I've now permanently shelved any plans from purchasing from forgeworld and I'm canceling my plans for starting a Admech army entirely.
Azreal13 wrote: You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
This will be no different.
Except there's no other* way of purchasing FW products.
This isn't like regular GW stock, where I can find a discounter and buy it from them. FW has one (soon two) sources - their HQ in the UK. Don't want to buy it from there, then that's it. No other way to get it*.
Azreal13 wrote: You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
This will be no different.
Except there's no other* way of purchasing FW products.
This isn't like regular GW stock, where I can find a discounter and buy it from them. FW has one (soon two) sources - their HQ in the UK. Don't want to buy it from there, then that's it. No other way to get it*.
*Without resorting to recasters, that is.
Or you make friends with someone in the UK who can onward ship stuff as a "gift/present" for tax purposes.
Azreal13 wrote: You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
This will be no different.
Except there's no other* way of purchasing FW products.
This isn't like regular GW stock, where I can find a discounter and buy it from them. FW has one (soon two) sources - their HQ in the UK. Don't want to buy it from there, then that's it. No other way to get it*.
*Without resorting to recasters, that is.
So people are even more likely to suck it up and pay. I'm sorry, but for years I've seen people on here and in real life continue to throw money at GW while moaning about the cost (even after discount) to think this will be any different aside from the odd individual.
Hell, there's people in your country choosing to pay full retail in their stores, why wouldn't GW assume that bringing their pricing model on FW.com in line with the rest of the company will work?
Price has never been an issue for GW, despite what people think. When they were at their lowest ebb under Kirby their price model was broadly similar. Open a Twotterbook and throw out some Genestealer Cultists and everyone goes nuts. While there're more value options nowadays, the top end continues to get more and more ludicrous, and yet people still fall over themselves to buy Grandmaster Editions with a coin.
Azreal13 wrote: You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
This will be no different.
Except there's no other* way of purchasing FW products.
This isn't like regular GW stock, where I can find a discounter and buy it from them. FW has one (soon two) sources - their HQ in the UK. Don't want to buy it from there, then that's it. No other way to get it*.
*Without resorting to recasters, that is.
Or you make friends with someone in the UK who can onward ship stuff as a "gift/present" for tax purposes.
Not sure of the specifics in the other direction, but a gift only gives you a little extra headroom coming into the U.K. these days, so with international shipping and small consignments, it's unlikely to be economical if it applies the same going the other way.
He, wow, there goes any thought I ever had of collecting Forge World.
For those who think that this will be a mess, it will be, in the short term - give it 6 months and people will move on and forget about the price bumps, or new players will come and just assume that this is how it always was.
From a consumer friendly point of view, FW really should have kept the conversions roughly as is (round out the numbers to the nearest 50 cents, or dollar, or euro, etc) for the current lines, and only bumped up for newer items, much like how GW proper has avoided upping the costs of older kits (lately) while giving new kits higher and higher prices. People would grumble, but it would be far more spread out than it is right now, and on a smaller scale.
Took a nap and woke up to the internet rage posting....
So let's get some clarification.....did they have an overall price hike, or just in the US? Is it cheaper to order from the UK with shipping charges etc? What's the 411?
Took a nap and woke up to the internet rage posting....
So let's get some clarification.....did they have an overall price hike, or just in the US? Is it cheaper to order from the UK with shipping charges etc? What's the 411?
Most of the world experienced an unexaplainable massive hike in prices. 20-30% and up. Meanwhile the UK customers took an overall cut.
People no longer pay for fw in GBP, at the world exchange rate plus a bank fee, but now in local currencies priced at a much higher exchange ( 1.55 to 1.6 from what I have looked at so far) but a fixed shipping cost (better for medium orders, worse for tiny orders, and irrelevant to those of use who make less frequent purchases that meet the free express point.
One thing to note is that any gift vouchers or credit you had was updated in line with whatever exchange rate they're using, so that's nice I suppose. My £65 voucher is now $170AUD
I decided to look at a dozen different kits across the price spectrum (from rhino doors up to the warlord), and found that the median premium-over-straight-currency-conversion was 20% for US customers. It wasn't exact on every kit, but most were very close, hovering in the 19-21% range (likely due to rounding to whole dollars). The worst two offenders from my random checking were deimos rhino doors and legion combi-weapons, both at a 24% additional markup.
JBSchroeds wrote: I decided to look at a dozen different kits across the price spectrum (from rhino doors up to the warlord), and found that the median premium-over-straight-currency-conversion was 20% for US customers. It wasn't exact on every kit, but most were very close, hovering in the 19-21% range (likely due to rounding to whole dollars). The worst two offenders from my random checking were deimos rhino doors and legion combi-weapons, both at a 24% additional markup.
I've been away from GW for ten years and just got back into it to find out they haven't changed much. Being 100% honest, I've never seen a company make more confusingly daft business decisions in my entire life. I had heard they had turned things around recently and hence my giving it a shot again. "They had to have done something good or they wouldn't still be around", I thought. If they just lowered their prices (which they most certainly can afford to do) they would increase their profit margins overall. It's why Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Some will say, "but they gotta pay for this and that and ...." SILENCE. You are a fool. Some will say, "They can't keep up with demand if they lower prices...I took a class in economics and I'm a Socialist" SILENCE! Before I smite thee. Here's the answer, please read it twice. You GROW your business to keep up with demand. There is no way on earth their costs remotely approach their prices. And if they do, then they are even more Communist than I thought. What they need is an American business mogul to come in and teach these dingbats how to actually grow a business. I'm talking Donald Trump style we're about to make GW great again all while paying off hookers and eating cheeseburgers. If there is one thing we are good at, it's Capitalism for better or for worse. In ten years you would see a squad of Primaris Marines in every Happy Meal and there would be a Games Workshop store in the back of every Starbucks and it wouldn't take a 6 figure income to collect this magical rare earth mineral called plastic. It's freaking plastic still on the sprues. IT DOESN'T COST MUCH AT ALL TO MAKE THIS STUFF. "but, but, but.." SILENCE!
JBSchroeds wrote: I decided to look at a dozen different kits across the price spectrum (from rhino doors up to the warlord), and found that the median premium-over-straight-currency-conversion was 20% for US customers. It wasn't exact on every kit, but most were very close, hovering in the 19-21% range (likely due to rounding to whole dollars). The worst two offenders from my random checking were deimos rhino doors and legion combi-weapons, both at a 24% additional markup.
I've been away from GW for ten years and just got back into it to find out they haven't changed much. Being 100% honest, I've never seen a company make more confusingly daft business decisions in my entire life. I had heard they had turned things around recently and hence my giving it a shot again. "They had to have done something good or they wouldn't still be around", I thought. If they just lowered their prices (which they most certainly can afford to do) they would increase their profit margins overall. It's why Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Some will say, "but they gotta pay for this and that and ...." SILENCE. You are a fool. Some will say, "They can't keep up with demand if they lower prices...I took a class in economics and I'm a Socialist" SILENCE! Before I smite thee. Here's the answer, please read it twice. You GROW your business to keep up with demand. There is no way on earth their costs remotely approach their prices. And if they do, then they are even more Communist than I thought. What they need is an American business mogul to come in and teach these dingbats how to actually grow a business. I'm talking Donald Trump style we're about to make GW great again all while paying off hookers and eating cheeseburgers. If there is one thing we are good at, it's Capitalism for better or for worse. In ten years you would see a squad of Primaris Marines in every Happy Meal and there would be a Games Workshop store in the back of every Starbucks and it wouldn't take a 6 figure income to collect this magical rare earth mineral called plastic. It's freaking plastic still on the sprues. IT DOESN'T COST MUCH AT ALL TO MAKE THIS STUFF. "but, but, but.." SILENCE!
The Forge World price rise was worth it for this alone
You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
And it's not like it's going to be big effect to all.
Were I to buy spartan whopping 3 euro's difference. Whopedoo. 145 euro's vs 142 euro's. Yey. What a bankrupt for me! I need to abstain from half a beer! The horror!
You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
And it's not like it's going to be big effect to all.
Were I to buy spartan whopping 3 euro's difference. Whopedoo. 145 euro's vs 142 euro's. Yey. What a bankrupt for me! I need to abstain from half a beer! The horror!
You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
And it's not like it's going to be big effect to all.
Were I to buy spartan whopping 3 euro's difference. Whopedoo. 145 euro's vs 142 euro's. Yey. What a bankrupt for me! I need to abstain from half a beer! The horror!
That's all well and good for you, but what about the Americans paying 20% extra compared to last week's prices? The Australians who pay 50-60% more? That's not half a beer, that's half a week's groceries in the Spartan's case ($194 converted, becomes $260)
Paying 50% more for the same product because GW decided that was appropriate. Whopedoo
I was going to make a similar point, but then I figured letting an actual Ozzie tear him a new one for such a breathtaking lack of sympathy might just make that Ozzie feel a little better under the circumstances!
You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
And it's not like it's going to be big effect to all.
Were I to buy spartan whopping 3 euro's difference. Whopedoo. 145 euro's vs 142 euro's. Yey. What a bankrupt for me! I need to abstain from half a beer! The horror!
I love how you FREAK OUT at typos and imprecise rules wordings, but at obvious corporate cash gouging you're totally content.
If this was GW prime you'd be calling for lynchings.
You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
And it's not like it's going to be big effect to all.
Were I to buy spartan whopping 3 euro's difference. Whopedoo. 145 euro's vs 142 euro's. Yey. What a bankrupt for me! I need to abstain from half a beer! The horror!
That's all well and good for you, but what about the Americans paying 20% extra compared to last week's prices? The Australians who pay 50-60% more? That's not half a beer, that's half a week's groceries in the Spartan's case ($194 converted, becomes $260)
Paying 50% more for the same product because GW decided that was appropriate. Whopedoo
Yes and suck for them. But less hyrerbole along fw sales goes to zero. Uk(their biggest market) only benefitted and other markets don't feel big change either.
Rygnan wrote: That's all well and good for you, but what about the Americans paying 20% extra compared to last week's prices? The Australians who pay 50-60% more? That's not half a beer, that's half a week's groceries in the Spartan's case ($194 converted, becomes $260)
Paying 50% more for the same product because GW decided that was appropriate. Whopedoo
And not just paying more than last week, paying more than UK customers pay right now. It's not like GW raised prices on everything, which would be frustrating but at least fair, they raised prices on non-UK customers only and tried to justify it with the laughable argument that it's ok to pay 20% more because you don't have to pay a 3% currency conversion fee.
You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
And it's not like it's going to be big effect to all.
Were I to buy spartan whopping 3 euro's difference. Whopedoo. 145 euro's vs 142 euro's. Yey. What a bankrupt for me! I need to abstain from half a beer! The horror!
I love how you FREAK OUT at typos and imprecise rules wordings, but at obvious corporate cash gouging you're totally content.
If this was GW prime you'd be calling for lynchings.
I freak out about hyperbole "FW sales go to zero!" when it's marketdly wrong. UK sales will go up, euro sales should be about same if price is such a factor...
Oh and funny you mention GW prime. They have been on this pricising system for years so if FW sales go to zero due to this...Well presumably GW prime sales in US have been zero in years. No new models sold there...Oh wait they do. Guess that shows you how US will in practice react to this. By still buying. After all if artificial exchange rate price couging will kill sales for FW it should have done same for GW when the GW went for it. Basic logic but guess too hard for some people.
Oh and btw imprecise rules affect players more than model prices. Especially luxury ones. One can always work around with luxury non-essential models being bit pricier. Harder to avoid GW sloppy rules writing except by not playing at all(which then makes buying models moot point anyway). Those have caused more headache for me than last decade's worth of GW price hikes combined.
Rygnan wrote: That's all well and good for you, but what about the Americans paying 20% extra compared to last week's prices? The Australians who pay 50-60% more? That's not half a beer, that's half a week's groceries in the Spartan's case ($194 converted, becomes $260)
Paying 50% more for the same product because GW decided that was appropriate. Whopedoo
And not just paying more than last week, paying more than UK customers pay right now. It's not like GW raised prices on everything, which would be frustrating but at least fair, they raised prices on non-UK customers only and tried to justify it with the laughable argument that it's ok to pay 20% more because you don't have to pay a 3% currency conversion fee.
I have purchased many items in foreign currency over the years and have never once seen a conversion fee. Whereas something like Death Korps went from 44 pounds (56/57USD) up to 69$ thanks to Forge World making currency conversion more 'convenient'.
You've a lot more confidence that people will follow through on abstaining from purchases when the new shiny for their thing shows up. All the last few years has shown me is while there was always a better way, there's a core of customers who'll keep buying regardless. Heck, there's probably a percentage who'll barely notice.
And it's not like it's going to be big effect to all.
Were I to buy spartan whopping 3 euro's difference. Whopedoo. 145 euro's vs 142 euro's. Yey. What a bankrupt for me! I need to abstain from half a beer! The horror!
I love how you FREAK OUT at typos and imprecise rules wordings, but at obvious corporate cash gouging you're totally content.
If this was GW prime you'd be calling for lynchings.
I freak out about hyperbole "FW sales go to zero!" when it's marketdly wrong. UK sales will go up, euro sales should be about same if price is such a factor...
Oh and funny you mention GW prime. They have been on this pricising system for years so if FW sales go to zero due to this...Well presumably GW prime sales in US have been zero in years. No new models sold there...Oh wait they do. Guess that shows you how US will in practice react to this. By still buying. After all if artificial exchange rate price couging will kill sales for FW it should have done same for GW when the GW went for it. Basic logic but guess too hard for some people.
Oh and btw imprecise rules affect players more than model prices. Especially luxury ones. One can always work around with luxury non-essential models being bit pricier. Harder to avoid GW sloppy rules writing except by not playing at all(which then makes buying models moot point anyway). Those have caused more headache for me than last decade's worth of GW price hikes combined.
Forge World sales will likely take a hit for awhile, but the fans will come back - some will need something to finish an army, some will forget that the prices suddenly went up in 3 or 6 months, some will grin and bear it to get a piece they want, and people new to Forge World will never know.
And you should note, in the US, most GW proper items can be found at a discount - some local game stores will have it marked down, online stores often have it at the GW maximum of 15%, and ebay coupons that give either solid chunks off the price, or 15% off of something already 15% off, makes it more affordable. Also with the more common GW kits, its easier to find preowned models either in the swap shop, on bartertown, or on ebay. Forge World, on the other hand, can only be obtained through their site itself, or booths they set up at a con - both of which will charge you retail price.
Azreal13 wrote: I was going to make a similar point, but then I figured letting an actual Ozzie tear him a new one for such a breathtaking lack of sympathy might just make that Ozzie feel a little better under the circumstances!
Given the author and his post history, I can't do much other than chuckle at how self-centered people can be.
As for Forge World's decision, China Forge already seems at least as popular as actual Forge World. If they're going to make the honest amongst us feel like fools for being honest ...well, I for one am not going to feel like a fool. /shrug
You only need to see that sold out Adeptus Titanicus here in Au/NZ to see how well overdoing it does - and I get my 100% legit boxed mainline stuff through a secret sauce at close enough to UKRRP inc shipping, because feth GWAU pricing.
I have purchased many items in foreign currency over the years and have never once seen a conversion fee. Whereas something like Death Korps went from 44 pounds (56/57USD) up to 69$ thanks to Forge World making currency conversion more 'convenient'.
I purchase items in foreign currencies multiple times per week (yes really) and the fees are there, itemised, right on my statement. It's very much a real thing.
Possibly your financial institution isn't fully itemising your charges?
I purchase items in foreign currencies multiple times per week (yes really) and the fees are there, itemised, right on my statement. It's very much a real thing.
Possibly your financial institution isn't fully itemising your charges?
Some credit cards in North America don't charge foreign transaction fees, while others roll their fees into the exchange rate. I have both types of card now, and in the past I also had the kind of card that itemized the forex fees but that wasn't in North America.
Vaktathi wrote: Welp, any plans for new DKoK models this year are out the window.
In fact, probably ever at these prices.
EDIT: Jesus...a single two-man DKoK heavy weapons team is now as much as an entire plastic cadian Heavy Weapons *squad*. $50 for a single Laser Destroyer? Almost $160 for a single artillery carriage with crew?
O_o
This is a good example of how they are normalising their non UK prices then.
It's £24 for the Cadians and £23 for the Death Korps
Compared to $39.5 and $36.
Forgeworld is as expensive compared to your region's core prices as ours is now (actually a bit less).
The problem here seems to be that FW have used an exchange rate that is likely based around an historical average (as they need to cover against future rate changes that make the pound more valuable*) but have done it at a time when the exchange rate when converting to GBP is very good, making it look very bad as there's this sudden huge price hike.
Todays exchange rate is approximately 1.28 dollars to the pound, but go back prior to the brexit vote and it was around 1.56, a year earlier again 1.66 (I believe it's even got close to 2 at some points in the past), so if the change had happened then it would have seemed much better, in fact probably even a price cut. If you look on the bright side, FW stuff is now likely to be cheaper than it was a few years back and if the exchange rate moves back closer to the normal rates then the new overseas prices may start to become a better deal than paying in GBP.
*This may be optimistic based on how things are going.
JBSchroeds wrote: I decided to look at a dozen different kits across the price spectrum (from rhino doors up to the warlord), and found that the median premium-over-straight-currency-conversion was 20% for US customers. It wasn't exact on every kit, but most were very close, hovering in the 19-21% range (likely due to rounding to whole dollars). The worst two offenders from my random checking were deimos rhino doors and legion combi-weapons, both at a 24% additional markup.
I've been away from GW for ten years and just got back into it to find out they haven't changed much. Being 100% honest, I've never seen a company make more confusingly daft business decisions in my entire life. I had heard they had turned things around recently and hence my giving it a shot again. "They had to have done something good or they wouldn't still be around", I thought. If they just lowered their prices (which they most certainly can afford to do) they would increase their profit margins overall. It's why Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Some will say, "but they gotta pay for this and that and ...." SILENCE. You are a fool. Some will say, "They can't keep up with demand if they lower prices...I took a class in economics and I'm a Socialist" SILENCE! Before I smite thee. Here's the answer, please read it twice. You GROW your business to keep up with demand. There is no way on earth their costs remotely approach their prices. And if they do, then they are even more Communist than I thought. What they need is an American business mogul to come in and teach these dingbats how to actually grow a business. I'm talking Donald Trump style we're about to make GW great again all while paying off hookers and eating cheeseburgers. If there is one thing we are good at, it's Capitalism for better or for worse. In ten years you would see a squad of Primaris Marines in every Happy Meal and there would be a Games Workshop store in the back of every Starbucks and it wouldn't take a 6 figure income to collect this magical rare earth mineral called plastic. It's freaking plastic still on the sprues. IT DOESN'T COST MUCH AT ALL TO MAKE THIS STUFF. "but, but, but.." SILENCE!
The Forge World price rise was worth it for this alone
Trump prices for Trump Amurika.
He seems to have gotten his wish but doesn’t like it...
Tavis75 wrote: The problem here seems to be that FW have used an exchange rate that is likely based around an historical average (as they need to cover against future rate changes that make the pound more valuable*) but have done it at a time when the exchange rate when converting to GBP is very good, making it look very bad as there's this sudden huge price hike..
That would be in line with how GW have handled it down here in the past. They set the original rate with a bit of padding to be safe. When the Oz dollar went up, they would respond by raising prices to compensate. When the Oz dollar went down again, they would respond by raising prices to compensate. And so here we are...
Oh wow, that's not great news is it. I thought the new structure was touted to give us easier more cost effective products to buy from around the globe? and now it seems it's made the products more inaccessible as a regular purchase for those hobbyists who love the models they produce or collect certain factions.
I cannot understand what the thought process has been recently in GW/FW as it's really strange how they are ceasing production of a LOT of models and parts, the only thing I can assume is that they want to instill urgency in the products so even for future releases we as consumers will feel that if we don't buy the models we want straight away on release or very soon after then we'll miss out?
insaniak wrote: That would be in line with how GW have handled it down here in the past. They set the original rate with a bit of padding to be safe. When the Oz dollar went up, they would respond by raising prices to compensate. When the Oz dollar went down again, they would respond by raising prices to compensate. And so here we are...
Hmmmmm, I think I see what you are getting at...
edit. Also @insaniak, I remember reading Under the Couch yeeeeaers ago, nice to see you're still around
JBSchroeds wrote: I decided to look at a dozen different kits across the price spectrum (from rhino doors up to the warlord), and found that the median premium-over-straight-currency-conversion was 20% for US customers. It wasn't exact on every kit, but most were very close, hovering in the 19-21% range (likely due to rounding to whole dollars). The worst two offenders from my random checking were deimos rhino doors and legion combi-weapons, both at a 24% additional markup.
I've been away from GW for ten years and just got back into it to find out they haven't changed much. Being 100% honest, I've never seen a company make more confusingly daft business decisions in my entire life. I had heard they had turned things around recently and hence my giving it a shot again. "They had to have done something good or they wouldn't still be around", I thought. If they just lowered their prices (which they most certainly can afford to do) they would increase their profit margins overall. It's why Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Some will say, "but they gotta pay for this and that and ...." SILENCE. You are a fool. Some will say, "They can't keep up with demand if they lower prices...I took a class in economics and I'm a Socialist" SILENCE! Before I smite thee. Here's the answer, please read it twice. You GROW your business to keep up with demand. There is no way on earth their costs remotely approach their prices. And if they do, then they are even more Communist than I thought. What they need is an American business mogul to come in and teach these dingbats how to actually grow a business. I'm talking Donald Trump style we're about to make GW great again all while paying off hookers and eating cheeseburgers. If there is one thing we are good at, it's Capitalism for better or for worse. In ten years you would see a squad of Primaris Marines in every Happy Meal and there would be a Games Workshop store in the back of every Starbucks and it wouldn't take a 6 figure income to collect this magical rare earth mineral called plastic. It's freaking plastic still on the sprues. IT DOESN'T COST MUCH AT ALL TO MAKE THIS STUFF. "but, but, but.." SILENCE!
The Forge World price rise was worth it for this alone
Trump prices for Trump Amurika.
He seems to have gotten his wish but doesn’t like it...
>Misses obvious attempt at humor in post
>American economy is booming
Tavis75 wrote: The problem here seems to be that FW have used an exchange rate that is likely based around an historical average (as they need to cover against future rate changes that make the pound more valuable*) but have done it at a time when the exchange rate when converting to GBP is very good, making it look very bad as there's this sudden huge price hike.
Todays exchange rate is approximately 1.28 dollars to the pound, but go back prior to the brexit vote and it was around 1.56, a year earlier again 1.66 (I believe it's even got close to 2 at some points in the past), so if the change had happened then it would have seemed much better, in fact probably even a price cut. If you look on the bright side, FW stuff is now likely to be cheaper than it was a few years back and if the exchange rate moves back closer to the normal rates then the new overseas prices may start to become a better deal than paying in GBP.
*This may be optimistic based on how things are going.
You don't seriously think that if this had been done while the GBP was at 1.6 USD that we would have seen a price decrease, do you?
JBSchroeds wrote: I decided to look at a dozen different kits across the price spectrum (from rhino doors up to the warlord), and found that the median premium-over-straight-currency-conversion was 20% for US customers. It wasn't exact on every kit, but most were very close, hovering in the 19-21% range (likely due to rounding to whole dollars). The worst two offenders from my random checking were deimos rhino doors and legion combi-weapons, both at a 24% additional markup.
I've been away from GW for ten years and just got back into it to find out they haven't changed much. Being 100% honest, I've never seen a company make more confusingly daft business decisions in my entire life. I had heard they had turned things around recently and hence my giving it a shot again. "They had to have done something good or they wouldn't still be around", I thought. If they just lowered their prices (which they most certainly can afford to do) they would increase their profit margins overall. It's why Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Some will say, "but they gotta pay for this and that and ...." SILENCE. You are a fool. Some will say, "They can't keep up with demand if they lower prices...I took a class in economics and I'm a Socialist" SILENCE! Before I smite thee. Here's the answer, please read it twice. You GROW your business to keep up with demand. There is no way on earth their costs remotely approach their prices. And if they do, then they are even more Communist than I thought. What they need is an American business mogul to come in and teach these dingbats how to actually grow a business. I'm talking Donald Trump style we're about to make GW great again all while paying off hookers and eating cheeseburgers. If there is one thing we are good at, it's Capitalism for better or for worse. In ten years you would see a squad of Primaris Marines in every Happy Meal and there would be a Games Workshop store in the back of every Starbucks and it wouldn't take a 6 figure income to collect this magical rare earth mineral called plastic. It's freaking plastic still on the sprues. IT DOESN'T COST MUCH AT ALL TO MAKE THIS STUFF. "but, but, but.." SILENCE!
The Forge World price rise was worth it for this alone
Trump prices for Trump Amurika.
He seems to have gotten his wish but doesn’t like it...
>Misses obvious attempt at humor in post
>American economy is booming
JBSchroeds wrote: I decided to look at a dozen different kits across the price spectrum (from rhino doors up to the warlord), and found that the median premium-over-straight-currency-conversion was 20% for US customers. It wasn't exact on every kit, but most were very close, hovering in the 19-21% range (likely due to rounding to whole dollars). The worst two offenders from my random checking were deimos rhino doors and legion combi-weapons, both at a 24% additional markup.
I've been away from GW for ten years and just got back into it to find out they haven't changed much. Being 100% honest, I've never seen a company make more confusingly daft business decisions in my entire life. I had heard they had turned things around recently and hence my giving it a shot again. "They had to have done something good or they wouldn't still be around", I thought. If they just lowered their prices (which they most certainly can afford to do) they would increase their profit margins overall. It's why Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Some will say, "but they gotta pay for this and that and ...." SILENCE. You are a fool. Some will say, "They can't keep up with demand if they lower prices...I took a class in economics and I'm a Socialist" SILENCE! Before I smite thee. Here's the answer, please read it twice. You GROW your business to keep up with demand. There is no way on earth their costs remotely approach their prices. And if they do, then they are even more Communist than I thought. What they need is an American business mogul to come in and teach these dingbats how to actually grow a business. I'm talking Donald Trump style we're about to make GW great again all while paying off hookers and eating cheeseburgers. If there is one thing we are good at, it's Capitalism for better or for worse. In ten years you would see a squad of Primaris Marines in every Happy Meal and there would be a Games Workshop store in the back of every Starbucks and it wouldn't take a 6 figure income to collect this magical rare earth mineral called plastic. It's freaking plastic still on the sprues. IT DOESN'T COST MUCH AT ALL TO MAKE THIS STUFF. "but, but, but.." SILENCE!
The Forge World price rise was worth it for this alone
Trump prices for Trump Amurika.
He seems to have gotten his wish but doesn’t like it...
>Misses obvious attempt at humor in post
>American economy is booming
Oi, you got a loicense for that obby knoife mate?
Who greentexts on a forum?
>asks who greentexts on a forum
>doesn’t understand that all greentexts are on forums
JBSchroeds wrote: I decided to look at a dozen different kits across the price spectrum (from rhino doors up to the warlord), and found that the median premium-over-straight-currency-conversion was 20% for US customers. It wasn't exact on every kit, but most were very close, hovering in the 19-21% range (likely due to rounding to whole dollars). The worst two offenders from my random checking were deimos rhino doors and legion combi-weapons, both at a 24% additional markup.
I've been away from GW for ten years and just got back into it to find out they haven't changed much. Being 100% honest, I've never seen a company make more confusingly daft business decisions in my entire life. I had heard they had turned things around recently and hence my giving it a shot again. "They had to have done something good or they wouldn't still be around", I thought. If they just lowered their prices (which they most certainly can afford to do) they would increase their profit margins overall. It's why Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Some will say, "but they gotta pay for this and that and ...." SILENCE. You are a fool. Some will say, "They can't keep up with demand if they lower prices...I took a class in economics and I'm a Socialist" SILENCE! Before I smite thee. Here's the answer, please read it twice. You GROW your business to keep up with demand. There is no way on earth their costs remotely approach their prices. And if they do, then they are even more Communist than I thought. What they need is an American business mogul to come in and teach these dingbats how to actually grow a business. I'm talking Donald Trump style we're about to make GW great again all while paying off hookers and eating cheeseburgers. If there is one thing we are good at, it's Capitalism for better or for worse. In ten years you would see a squad of Primaris Marines in every Happy Meal and there would be a Games Workshop store in the back of every Starbucks and it wouldn't take a 6 figure income to collect this magical rare earth mineral called plastic. It's freaking plastic still on the sprues. IT DOESN'T COST MUCH AT ALL TO MAKE THIS STUFF. "but, but, but.." SILENCE!
The Forge World price rise was worth it for this alone
Trump prices for Trump Amurika.
He seems to have gotten his wish but doesn’t like it...
>Misses obvious attempt at humor in post
>American economy is booming
Oi, you got a loicense for that obby knoife mate?
Who greentexts on a forum?
>asks who greentexts on a forum
>doesn’t understand that all greentexts are on forums
Quasistellar wrote: You don't seriously think that if this had been done while the GBP was at 1.6 USD that we would have seen a price decrease, do you?
I admit, that would have been unlikely.
Really just making the point that although it's pretty annoying to see such a sudden price hike now, in reality the prices have probably just returned to what they would have been a few years back, if not cheaper, and that if the exchange rate shifts back towards a more normal level then the prices could end being cheaper than they would have been without this change. So it's going to annoy a lot of people now who were used to the cheaper prices, but historically, people appear to have been happy to pay the higher prices.
Admittedly though, I am in the UK, so I'm looking at it from a purely practical perspective, if I lived elsewhere else I'd probably be looking at it a lot differently!
Azreal13 wrote: People will protest, but not by withholding actual funds, and therefore it won't matter.
Well, speak for yourself. Me, I've just decided I don't want that much the Necromunda and Horus Heresy stuff I was gonna buy anyway. I'll just go directly to print it myself.
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Baragash wrote: What impact does the currency paid in have on import duty?
Basically none whatsoever. The only possible impact it could have is that your local currency suddenly plummets between the time you make the order and the time it gets stopped at customs, in which case import duty would be proportionally higher. Other than that... zip and nil.
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
If you pay actual retail for GW stuff in the US, you're not doing it right. However, FW can't be bought from eBay or local stores that offer discounts. People react more strongly to things being taken away from them that they were used to.
Azreal13 wrote: People will protest, but not by withholding actual funds, and therefore it won't matter.
Well, speak for yourself. Me, I've just decided I don't want that much the Necromunda and Horus Heresy stuff I was gonna buy anyway. I'll just go directly to print it myself.
Ok, the Dakka disease of taking issue with the specific while not really appreciating the general. Of course some people will reduce or eliminate spending, just not enough to make any significant difference ultimately, and nowhere near the amount who'll grumble about price.
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
If you pay actual retail for GW stuff in the US, you're not doing it right. However, FW can't be bought from eBay or local stores that offer discounts. People react more strongly to things being taken away from them that they were used to.
Just because you got a discount didn't magically mean you weren't rewarding the underlying approach. That 20% may have meant the item became affordable/acceptable to you, but the underlying RRP was still going up, the regional pricing disparity was still happening and GW were still pocketing your cash.
If you pay actual retail for GW stuff in the US, you're not doing it right. However, FW can't be bought from eBay or local stores that offer discounts. People react more strongly to things being taken away from them that they were used to.
Just because you got a discount didn't magically mean you weren't rewarding the underlying approach. That 20% may have meant the item became affordable/acceptable to you, but the underlying RRP was still going up, the regional pricing disparity was still happening and GW were still pocketing your cash.
They're pocketing my cash because I'm giving them money in exchange for a product that I want at a price that seems reasonable to me. If FW introduced a way for me to buy items at a discount that brought things more in line with UK prices I would consider buying that too. As it is, they took an already overpriced product and are making me pay on top of that. That is no longer reasonable to me, so I will not exchange my money for their product.
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
I can walk into a store and buy GW stuff, and get it 15% off in a few places- not so much with Forge World. It's not 'the same price structure' by any stretch, because GW hasn't launched prices up 25% overnight and then tried to tell me it was an improvement. I will not be buying from Forge World until they re-calculate.
So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
For the most part yes. I do purchase things on the secondary market. Also I tend to purchase the faction cards. But for the most part my 40k armies have become kitbashes from other companies or scratchbuilds. GW models only when STEEPLY discounted. I recently purchased a Knight for $68 on Ebay (GW sprue, probably from IKR). Compared to the $140 retail price of that kit, I'd say it was a deep enough discount to not feel bad about the forced exchange rates. I'd say that I was the target audience for Adeptus Titanicus, save that the forced exchange rate made me decide not to purchase it at all. Kill team same thing, only less of the target audience. But yeah, I would say the forced exchange rate has caused me to purchase tons less than I would have otherwise. Now with more Forgeworld.
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
If you pay actual retail for GW stuff in the US, you're not doing it right. However, FW can't be bought from eBay or local stores that offer discounts. People react more strongly to things being taken away from them that they were used to.
Ofcourse it can be, china fw offers great discounts!
Well, more people will turn to recasts but who is to be blaimed, probably recasters because they charge 50$ while fw charges 430$ for knight,lol
While that's great, some other items are up 20-40%. Looking at one unit is not representative at all (just like Tneva shaming people because prices barely changed in Finland...has zero effect on price changes in the US or Australia, etc.).
Last month I bought two DKoK Centaurs from Forgeworld.
Cost+Shipping+Taxes came to $146.90
That same order in my card today comes to:
Cost+Shipping+Sales Tax = $145.26
Granted this is with the free shipping deal, but the difference is much less than I thought it would be.
I found my order from June and made calculations with exchange rate that Paypal applied for that order and figuring the inclusion of local state tax vs sales tax that FW charged me, my order went up 13%. So not as bad as the changes indicate without the additional calculations, but I also don't think their operating expenses jumped 13% by the addition of local warehouses. Improving logistics like that should really make things cheaper...otherwise why would you invest in the infrastructure if it makes things more expensive.
Last month I bought two DKoK Centaurs from Forgeworld.
Cost+Shipping+Taxes came to $146.90
That same order in my card today comes to:
Cost+Shipping+Sales Tax = $145.26
Granted this is with the free shipping deal, but the difference is much less than I thought it would be.
I found my order from June and made calculations with exchange rate that Paypal applied for that order and figuring the inclusion of local state tax vs sales tax that FW charged me, my order went up 13%. So not as bad as the changes indicate without the additional calculations, but I also don't think their operating expenses jumped 13% by the addition of local warehouses. Improving logistics like that should really make things cheaper...otherwise why would you invest in the infrastructure if it makes things more expensive.
Yeah, this was also figured out using the free shipping promotion right now. Otherwise I think your numbers are more accurate. I know I won't be ordering much from Forgeworld if at all anymore.
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
GW"s regional trading policy (when they stopped us from being able to buy direct from the UK or US) already killed off most of my purchasing, other than the occasional eBay purchase. So yes, Forgeworld moving to the same pricing structure means I'll be sticking to eBay for that too.
skrulnik wrote: I just love how FW bake the VAT into the pre-conversion price.
How do they get away with that?
Doesn't it show up on their books that they are charging for it, but not forwarding it on to the proper channels?
I vaguely recall FW claiming in the past that their prices are set as if there is no Vat, to cover overseas purchases, and they 'wear' the VAT for UK purchases. Which sounded like nonsense, but I'm no expert on UK retail pricing.
This is actually bull . This hobby that I love is not worth my entire paycheck. Everything Im buying from FW this point on will be from recasters and I now have absolutely zero pause to do so.
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
That’s a fair question, and I have a few thoughts on the matter.
If Forge World had always had the same pricing system as GW, there wouldn’t be as many complaints as we’re hearing now. Some, but not as many… because a lot of players would never have started buying from FW. The low pound and lack of regional markup enabled Forge World sales in Australia and New Zealand, where their models were cost-competitive with GW plastics, and to a lesser extent in the US. And that had knock-on effects, because the Horus Heresy’s popularity in Australia led to a podcast that kicked off other podcasts around the world, and together they appear to be responsible for a surprising proportion of 30k players’ entry into the game. With the typical GW regional markup, the customer base would never have grown as much.
Games Workshop’s products have been successful despite that markup - recently, at least - because their prices simply haven’t been as high as FW’s. Most people feel like GW’s UK prices are alright. “Alright” plus a regional markup makes for a price that’s stretching it but fans can still handle, e.g. 110 AUD (62 GBP) for a plastic Land Raider. Forge World takes “stretching it” prices and now takes them further, e.g. 220 AUD (124 GBP) for a FW Land Raider Proteus. And you can usually get GW kits discounted through 3rd party retailers. In the US that often gets you out of paying sales taxes.
Finally, it’s been a tough year with Forge World. The last Horus Heresy campaign book was much-maligned, as were the minis for the most recent legion to be introduced (Space Wolves). Then a large number of FW products were removed from production week by week, in a way that make it difficult for players to plan their purchases and really dampened the tone of conversation among 30k players (it also led to some hysteria - that, at least, was dealt with). Then Adeptus Titanicus pricing was announced, and given that it followed typical GW patterns I was surprised by the outrage. But outrage there was, and that made it a particularly bad time to jack up international prices. If they’d made the change 6 months ago, I think there’d be half the anger and half the threats to ragequit.
Did her original listing use the old price model instead of the much maligned new one?
Probably. For those in the US, at her listed 36GBP, that would have been $53.25 USD shipped from the UK to the US. Oh, wait, lets add 3% conversion fees, so $54.85.
Now, under this "better" system, she will cost a total of $69.36 in the US, so a $15 increase. $56 USD, plus 6% sales tax, plus $10 shipping.
Yeah, makes me want to run out and buy it.
I get it that she's an HH character, but close to $70? Aww hells no.
Did her original listing use the old price model instead of the much maligned new one?
Probably. For those in the US, at her listed 36GBP, that would have been $53.25 USD shipped from the UK to the US. Oh, wait, lets add 3% conversion fees, so $54.85.
Now, under this "better" system, she will cost a total of $69.36 in the US, so a $15 increase. $56 USD, plus 6% sales tax, plus $10 shipping.
Yeah, makes me want to run out and buy it.
I get it that she's an HH character, but close to $70? Aww hells no.
I wasn't trying to defend the new pricing structure, but unfortunately it is just bringin FW into line with the GW main pricing structure. Though showing people in print just how much your mugging them for is bad PR on top of business.
Cephalobeard wrote: Absolutely insane price for a mini that would fit on a 25mm base.
Truer words have never been spoken about practically every GW character sold seperately in the past 5 years. Adding on VAT on top of the new ROW FW currency conversion tax on top of the unnecessaryily large base upcharge on top of shipping to the normal premium resin price doesn't help.
Cephalobeard wrote: Absolutely insane price for a mini that would fit on a 25mm base.
Truer words have never been spoken about practically every GW character sold seperately in the past 5 years. Adding on VAT on top of the new ROW FW currency conversion tax on top of the unnecessaryily large base upcharge on top of shipping to the normal premium resin price doesn't help.
There are scalpers on eBay getting less for KDM minis right now. That pricing is ridiculous.
Uriels_Flame wrote: Normalizing GW prices to justify increasing FW prices...
Things were getting too good when it seemed the prices were getting too close.
Hail to the new boss, same as the old boss.
I’m surprised FW is still posting on FB, as the trolls are out in force.
I hope that people won't let up and will actually fight with their wallets for once. I also hope for all people to live in peace and harmony on Earth. So yeah...
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
If I was to buy something form GW here yes I would be paying a similar markup, but they at least can use the fact that they have Australian warehouses, stores and staff to pay that would increase the costs compared to those in the UK. With the forgeworld price changes the products are being shipped from the same warehouse they would be for someone from the uk and a similar location to where they were being shipped from last week, they don’t really have any extra expenses to justify the massive price increase they have do t this week.
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
Actually yes, if I can't get A GW product for uk prices with a discount I am not willing to pay the price they charge since I do not consider it to be worth that. Considering I do not live in the UK that means by default I will not buy anything that is GW direct so yes, I thought so.
CragHack wrote: So, with Calth and Prospero discontinued, I've been hearing/picking up some lose rumors about a new and better Horus Heresy 'game' incoming?
Well I always assumed there would be trilogy of the games judging by the success and easy platform to sell different plastic marks of armour. Mk5 marines versus plastic Solar Auxilla would be nifty...
CragHack wrote: So, with Calth and Prospero discontinued, I've been hearing/picking up some lose rumors about a new and better Horus Heresy 'game' incoming?
I am announcing right now, for 1/2 of that price differential, if you ship me the second model pictured, I will clip and greenstuff you the difference in pose and I will make you a base out of this new material they have called corkboard that looks about 95% as good as that base Forgeworld sculpted when painted gray.
CragHack wrote: So, with Calth and Prospero discontinued, I've been hearing/picking up some lose rumors about a new and better Horus Heresy 'game' incoming?
Well I always assumed there would be trilogy of the games judging by the success and easy platform to sell different plastic marks of armour. Mk5 marines versus plastic Solar Auxilla would be nifty...
Yeah right, and Anna Kendrick's about to knock on my door asking for date.
CragHack wrote: So, with Calth and Prospero discontinued, I've been hearing/picking up some lose rumors about a new and better Horus Heresy 'game' incoming?
Well I always assumed there would be trilogy of the games judging by the success and easy platform to sell different plastic marks of armour. Mk5 marines versus plastic Solar Auxilla would be nifty...
Yeah right, and Anna Kendrick's about to knock on my door asking for date.
Who? ... never mind.
The Solar Auxilia are some of my favourite FW sculpts, but I’d rather see Imperial Army in plastic (especially if they could double as Astra Militarum in 40k).
I think it takes a lot of optimism to look at the past year and think that GW is about to make a bold new investment into HH beyond the regular continuation and maintenance of the game.
But why would they be pulling out existing stock and just not let it sell away? Time has show that whenever they pull something out, there's something to put instead?
Old codices, old terrain, starter sets...
It could equally be the HH box sets are no longer selling well enough to justify a decent sized print run, certainly not impossible since it's stalled badly since Alan Bligh died and gamers are fickle, fickle people if there isn't new stuff to buy regularly
so since they're still scrambling for production time on the machines they've pulled them (maybe to return if they ever get enough new machines up and running and get on top of the backlog).
Plus there’s a lot of new boxed games recently/coming soon, so they might be getting rid of some older boxed games for them (silver tower and hammerhall have gone too).
Are they getting rid of the kits used for those games, or just the "game" box? If it's the second then it makes perfect sense. We know that hardly anyone plays the side games and sales are driven almost entirely by them being a discount bundle on kits for 30k/40k. By discontinuing them GW gets to stop spending money on game material that goes straight into the trash can most of the time and can make a larger profit on selling the kits directly.
Peregrine wrote: Are they getting rid of the kits used for those games, or just the "game" box? If it's the second then it makes perfect sense. We know that hardly anyone plays the side games and sales are driven almost entirely by them being a discount bundle on kits for 30k/40k. By discontinuing them GW gets to stop spending money on game material that goes straight into the trash can most of the time and can make a larger profit on selling the kits directly.
Just the box sets, the models inside can be brought separately still.
I am announcing right now, for 1/2 of that price differential, if you ship me the second model pictured, I will clip and greenstuff you the difference in pose and I will make you a base out of this new material they have called corkboard that looks about 95% as good as that base Forgeworld sculpted when painted gray.
You'll need an obnoxiously long purity seal. I recommend looking at the old ravenwing/breathing sprue for bits.
I am announcing right now, for 1/2 of that price differential, if you ship me the second model pictured, I will clip and greenstuff you the difference in pose and I will make you a base out of this new material they have called corkboard that looks about 95% as good as that base Forgeworld sculpted when painted gray.
You'll need an obnoxiously long purity seal. I recommend looking at the old ravenwing/breathing sprue for bits.
I'll buy one Celestine and I can make 30 purity seals of that length
CragHack wrote: So, with Calth and Prospero discontinued, I've been hearing/picking up some lose rumors about a new and better Horus Heresy 'game' incoming?
Well I always assumed there would be trilogy of the games judging by the success and easy platform to sell different plastic marks of armour. Mk5 marines versus plastic Solar Auxilla would be nifty...
Yeah right, and Anna Kendrick's about to knock on my door asking for date.
Who? ... never mind.
The Solar Auxilia are some of my favourite FW sculpts, but I’d rather see Imperial Army in plastic (especially if they could double as Astra Militarum in 40k).
Fairly famous actress. Anyway, the point is plastic SA are incredibly unlikely. So much so that it's not even worth talking about.
CragHack wrote: So, with Calth and Prospero discontinued, I've been hearing/picking up some lose rumors about a new and better Horus Heresy 'game' incoming?
Well I always assumed there would be trilogy of the games judging by the success and easy platform to sell different plastic marks of armour. Mk5 marines versus plastic Solar Auxilla would be nifty...
Yeah right, and Anna Kendrick's about to knock on my door asking for date.
Who? ... never mind.
The Solar Auxilia are some of my favourite FW sculpts, but I’d rather see Imperial Army in plastic (especially if they could double as Astra Militarum in 40k).
Technically, the Solar Auxilia are Imperial Army, and make up about a quarter of the combat regiments of the IA. There are not many other frontline regiments that are not Auxilia, and most of those are regiments of renown. Most of the rest is second and third tier troops as reserves and garrison duty.
I rarely see people taking flamers in starting gangs, if at all. In Cawdor they might be worthwhile, cause they have the combi autogun one but I hope they don't go flamer crazy with Delaque like they did with Escher.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 110 points gets you 15 S6 shots. That's not a terrible deal.
I’m a little surprised at how cheap it is
108 points gets you 8 str 6, -1, 2 dmg shots that does an additional D3 mortal wounds for each wound of a 6… lol. Or it gives 8 str 7, -1, 2 dmg shots.
140 points gets you 4 lascannon shots.
I can’t help but think that spending 388 points on 2 with 4 lascannons and 1 with 4 volkite is interesting.
I like it very much, bit dinky compared to the Russ but it has a bit of character to it. 140pts for 4x Lascannons isn't too bad either, but the Heavy movement penalty will hurt it a bit.
That fluff blurb tho, eww: Apparently they're abandoning the whole idea of "lost" tech now, the Mechanicus just had the STC tucked away in a drawer for no reason at all and can start mass-producing ancient relic equipment whenever they want
Imateria wrote: Is it meant to be a transport? I don't remember the Exlpodes rules reffering to embarked units before.
Nope. I was wondering if it was just a copy & paste error from the Aurox, but that doesn't have 8th rules. Termite perhaps?
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Yodhrin wrote: That fluff blurb tho, eww: Apparently they're abandoning the whole idea of "lost" tech now, the Mechanicus just had the STC tucked away in a drawer for no reason at all and can start mass-producing ancient relic equipment whenever they want
Same reason they abandoned other things like the old BFG chaos cruisers - perhaps they feared they were prone to corruption or are associated with heresy.
Yodhrin wrote: That fluff blurb tho, eww: Apparently they're abandoning the whole idea of "lost" tech now, the Mechanicus just had the STC tucked away in a drawer for no reason at all and can start mass-producing ancient relic equipment whenever they want
Isn't that like... very old lore? Mars is inmense and their libraries cover all of the planet. Most of them are undiscovered and forgotten, roamed by crazy machines from old ages, and regular expeditions are send there to try and find new STC, etc...
That was available during a Warhammer World anniversary or something - I dont know if it's ever going to be a catalogue item.
PS: Regarding the Carnodon...it's an ugly little tank but the rules and weaponry are pretty fantastic. However, once again we run into the "why would I ever take twin-autocannons vs. a vulkite calverin" - answer: you wouldn't. Same cost and you lose 1 Strength but gain the ability to deal mortal wounds? Zero contest. None, nada, zilch. I really hate when GW does stuff like that. They really need to differentiate weapons more, or make sure the cost is more reflective of the ability. Strength 7 over Strength 6 is rarely if ever a benefit, and the loss in Strength is absolutely made up for with mortal wounds.
PSS: Actually, come to think of it that resin 3rd party Kickstarter for the "small" Macharius style tank would be a perfect stand-in for this, and much more attractive.
Elbows wrote: That was available during a Warhammer World anniversary or something - I dont know if it's ever going to be a catalogue item.
PS: Regarding the Carnodon...it's an ugly little tank but the rules and weaponry are pretty fantastic. However, once again we run into the "why would I ever take twin-autocannons vs. a vulkite calverin" - answer: you wouldn't. Same cost and you lose 1 Strength but gain the ability to deal mortal wounds? Zero contest. None, nada, zilch. I really hate when GW does stuff like that. They really need to differentiate weapons more, or make sure the cost is more reflective of the ability. Strength 7 over Strength 6 is rarely if ever a benefit, and the loss in Strength is absolutely made up for with mortal wounds.
PSS: Actually, come to think of it that resin 3rd party Kickstarter for the "small" Macharius style tank would be a perfect stand-in for this, and much more attractive.
I think that Strength 7 is much better than strength 6 when it comes to light or medium vehicles or monsters. Most are toughness 6 or 7. Wounding on a 3 or 4 is better than wounding on a 4 or 5.
Versus these things the Autocannon is sometimes superior. if the target has 4+ armor or worse the Autocannon is actually better (by a slim margin). It also has a bit of a longer range than the Vulkite Calverin, and significantly more range than the Vulkite Charger.
Against things with a decent (4+ or better) invulnerable, toughness 1-5 or 8+, or a 2+ save, the Vulkite is better though.
I think the best combo is Vulkite Calverin turret with autocannon sponsons.
Yodhrin wrote: That fluff blurb tho, eww: Apparently they're abandoning the whole idea of "lost" tech now, the Mechanicus just had the STC tucked away in a drawer for no reason at all and can start mass-producing ancient relic equipment whenever they want
Isn't that like... very old lore? Mars is inmense and their libraries cover all of the planet. Most of them are undiscovered and forgotten, roamed by crazy machines from old ages, and regular expeditions are send there to try and find new STC, etc...
Yes, but they usually actually mount a big explorator mission and find something which is treated with great reverence that gets vetted for purity for eleventy-thousand years blah blah blah, rather than finding a functional, obviously useful STC like finding a pound coin down the back of a sofa cushion and just going "oh hai you giuse we shud totes be building this so do that".
Yodhrin wrote: That fluff blurb tho, eww: Apparently they're abandoning the whole idea of "lost" tech now, the Mechanicus just had the STC tucked away in a drawer for no reason at all and can start mass-producing ancient relic equipment whenever they want
Yeah, it's not like it was already once produced by millio-- oh wait, it was!
If you wanted to criticize fluff, though, there are better bits - like, you know, quadlas predator being advanced vehicle only produced in small quantities for Astartes, late discovery at that-- wait, lolnope, we produced better tank for IG grunts millenia before that! Or, you know, the fact Legiones Astartes had to abandon volkites as line arms due to their rarity-- wait, lolnope, we produced a tank for IG grunts mounting more of them than any SM vehicle did in literal heaps! Rare? Yeah, after IG hijacked 95% of them (see also 20 strong squads full of volkites)
I also like that quintuple multilaser variant, GOTO approved™. Really, it would make perfect addition to SM seeing they lack anti-infantry firepower (gatling on Redemptor and assbacks are nowhere near as efficient as this thing) but apparently SM as so dumb in-universe it never occurred to them they could use something similar, and Imperium instead shipped the Carnodons to their single subfaction that can't complain about massed firepower...
Yodhrin wrote: That fluff blurb tho, eww: Apparently they're abandoning the whole idea of "lost" tech now, the Mechanicus just had the STC tucked away in a drawer for no reason at all and can start mass-producing ancient relic equipment whenever they want
Isn't that like... very old lore? Mars is inmense and their libraries cover all of the planet. Most of them are undiscovered and forgotten, roamed by crazy machines from old ages, and regular expeditions are send there to try and find new STC, etc...
Yes, but they usually actually mount a big explorator mission and find something which is treated with great reverence that gets vetted for purity for eleventy-thousand years blah blah blah, rather than finding a functional, obviously useful STC like finding a pound coin down the back of a sofa cushion and just going "oh hai you giuse we shud totes be building this so do that".
Its an aspect of the fluff that could probably be expanded upon but has been left intentionally vague and wide because of how its intended as a way of bringing "new toys"... Lost in a library, or lost on a former human controlled planet it makes no difference. The real point is to underscore that there is very little if no new Imperial technology.
Another aspect to it is that even when the mechanicus has a workable STC template it probably isn't just a case of being vetted for purity. You have to imagine there is a whole logistical and political problem, where for example constructing based on the template requires other STC's, subcomponents or lost technologies or materials or facilities, or the go ahead not immediately available to the Magos that poses the otherwise viable template.
While Cawl's development of Primaris and their equipment is hand wavey... and people wonder why he's sat on advanced designs and technology while the Imperium's crumbled. The revitalization of the Imperium in this Age of Guilliman is mostly because people have fallen in line and the organization of manpower on a galactic level made it possible. Before this there were Martian shipyards that had been idle since the Heresy. How could that happen? With the state of the Imperium before this you have to imagine there are many Forge Worlds and Magos that could produce technology but simply don't have everything they need. And maybe it is all political, maybe rediscovered technologies are so slow to be produced because they require influence to get the go ahead and the Mago's with ability to give that blessing won't allow it because it dilutes their influence.
I think the implication is that they are just producing the tank chassis again, not necessarily all the weapons. They're fitting volkite relics on newly-made tanks, which have "the power-rich infrastructure and fiery machine spirits needed to carry the little-understood volkite weaponry". That the same can't be applied to relic Leviathan and Contemptor Dreadnoughts, though, is just silly.
Yodhrin wrote: That fluff blurb tho, eww: Apparently they're abandoning the whole idea of "lost" tech now, the Mechanicus just had the STC tucked away in a drawer for no reason at all and can start mass-producing ancient relic equipment whenever they want
Isn't that like... very old lore? Mars is inmense and their libraries cover all of the planet. Most of them are undiscovered and forgotten, roamed by crazy machines from old ages, and regular expeditions are send there to try and find new STC, etc...
Yes, but they usually actually mount a big explorator mission and find something which is treated with great reverence that gets vetted for purity for eleventy-thousand years blah blah blah, rather than finding a functional, obviously useful STC like finding a pound coin down the back of a sofa cushion and just going "oh hai you giuse we shud totes be building this so do that".
Its an aspect of the fluff that could probably be expanded upon but has been left intentionally vague and wide because of how its intended as a way of bringing "new toys"... Lost in a library, or lost on a former human controlled planet it makes no difference. The real point is to underscore that there is very little if no new Imperial technology.
Another aspect to it is that even when the mechanicus has a workable STC template it probably isn't just a case of being vetted for purity. You have to imagine there is a whole logistical and political problem, where for example constructing based on the template requires other STC's, subcomponents or lost technologies or materials or facilities, or the go ahead not immediately available to the Magos that poses the otherwise viable template.
While Cawl's development of Primaris and their equipment is hand wavey... and people wonder why he's sat on advanced designs and technology while the Imperium's crumbled. The revitalization of the Imperium in this Age of Guilliman is mostly because people have fallen in line and the organization of manpower on a galactic level made it possible. Before this there were Martian shipyards that had been idle since the Heresy. How could that happen? With the state of the Imperium before this you have to imagine there are many Forge Worlds and Magos that could produce technology but simply don't have everything they need. And maybe it is all political, maybe rediscovered technologies are so slow to be produced because they require influence to get the go ahead and the Mago's with ability to give that blessing won't allow it because it dilutes their influence.
Meh, I suppose the issue is less the exact "how" and more the fact that we're dealing with "the revitalization of the Imperium in this Age of Guilliman" - I don't want the Imperium revitalized, I want it to be a crumbling dystopian corpse of a society like it was when I first became enamoured with it. Revitalizing it entirely defeats the object.
Meh, I suppose the issue is less the exact "how" and more the fact that we're dealing with "the revitalization of the Imperium in this Age of Guilliman" - I don't want the Imperium revitalized, I want it to be a crumbling dystopian corpse of a society like it was when I first became enamoured with it. Revitalizing it entirely defeats the object.
Whilst I agree, that ship has unfortunately sailed. And compared to primarchs returning some IG tanks is microscopic beans.
Whilst I agree, that ship has unfortunately sailed. And compared to primarchs returning some IG tanks is microscopic beans.
Aye sad but true that, we are heading into a new shiny era in 40k and while I may not like it and refuse to read it, GW stuff is selling like hot cakes once more so its not going to end anytime soon.
I've removed an OT tangent from this thread. If you have questions about what is/isn't OK to post on Dakka, please PM a moderator rather than arguing about it in News & Rumors!
Yodhrin wrote: That fluff blurb tho, eww: Apparently they're abandoning the whole idea of "lost" tech now, the Mechanicus just had the STC tucked away in a drawer for no reason at all and can start mass-producing ancient relic equipment whenever they want
Isn't that like... very old lore? Mars is inmense and their libraries cover all of the planet. Most of them are undiscovered and forgotten, roamed by crazy machines from old ages, and regular expeditions are send there to try and find new STC, etc...
Yes, but they usually actually mount a big explorator mission and find something which is treated with great reverence that gets vetted for purity for eleventy-thousand years blah blah blah, rather than finding a functional, obviously useful STC like finding a pound coin down the back of a sofa cushion and just going "oh hai you giuse we shud totes be building this so do that".
Its an aspect of the fluff that could probably be expanded upon but has been left intentionally vague and wide because of how its intended as a way of bringing "new toys"... Lost in a library, or lost on a former human controlled planet it makes no difference. The real point is to underscore that there is very little if no new Imperial technology.
Another aspect to it is that even when the mechanicus has a workable STC template it probably isn't just a case of being vetted for purity. You have to imagine there is a whole logistical and political problem, where for example constructing based on the template requires other STC's, subcomponents or lost technologies or materials or facilities, or the go ahead not immediately available to the Magos that poses the otherwise viable template.
While Cawl's development of Primaris and their equipment is hand wavey... and people wonder why he's sat on advanced designs and technology while the Imperium's crumbled. The revitalization of the Imperium in this Age of Guilliman is mostly because people have fallen in line and the organization of manpower on a galactic level made it possible. Before this there were Martian shipyards that had been idle since the Heresy. How could that happen? With the state of the Imperium before this you have to imagine there are many Forge Worlds and Magos that could produce technology but simply don't have everything they need. And maybe it is all political, maybe rediscovered technologies are so slow to be produced because they require influence to get the go ahead and the Mago's with ability to give that blessing won't allow it because it dilutes their influence.
Meh, I suppose the issue is less the exact "how" and more the fact that we're dealing with "the revitalization of the Imperium in this Age of Guilliman" - I don't want the Imperium revitalized, I want it to be a crumbling dystopian corpse of a society like it was when I first became enamoured with it. Revitalizing it entirely defeats the object.
I think its still commentary on the dystopian nature of the Imperium that it takes someone next to god-level to achieve in 100 years something that used to be achieved every Tuesday only 10 millennium ago.
2. GW is trying to sell the model, so boom it gets 40k rules.
3. People complain about their ruined fluff.
4. plays as first world problems intensify.
It's even more ironic when said people first complain about lack of 40k rules for FW rules. So let's see. FW doesn't release 40k rules right away and complains. Then model gets released with 40k rules and said persons complains about that
Damned if you do, damned if you don't(wonder what's japanese equilavent of that one...)
Kria the Huntress Fresh from the amniotic tanks of House Escher’s alchymyst fleshteks, the death-maiden known as Kria the Huntress will soon be turning the Necromundan underhive into her own personal hunting ground. She serves as one of the matriarch council’s top enforcers, fighting at their sole discretion alongside other Escher Gangs (though a suitably generous bribe will certainly aid any request for her intervention as a Bounty Hunter).
Kria is equally deadly whether sniping prey through the telescopic sight of her long las or duelling with her stylised autopistol and long knives. She has even been known to cut her own flesh in order to lace the blades of her knives with her toxic blood!
Kria the Huntress will be available to pre-order from this Friday.
Seraptek Heavy Construct We have a bit of a treat for you as well – not just the title of the hitherto unnamed Necron heavy construct, but also a sneak preview of one of the formidable weapons at its disposal:
That’s pretty nasty, we’re sure you’ll agree – and it’s equipped with two of these brutal guns as standard! The Seraptek Heavy Construct has also just had the last few licks of paint applied, so we can now reveal it in all its complete, fully painted glory!
The mighty Seraptek Heavy Construct will be available to pre-order soon.
2. GW is trying to sell the model, so boom it gets 40k rules.
3. People complain about their ruined fluff.
4. plays as first world problems intensify.
It's even more ironic when said people first complain about lack of 40k rules for FW rules. So let's see. FW doesn't release 40k rules right away and complains. Then model gets released with 40k rules and said persons complains about that
Damned if you do, damned if you don't(wonder what's japanese equilavent of that one...)
Apparently its あちらたてればこちらがたたぬ, or achirataterebakochiragatatanu which is an expression that means "its hard to please everybody"
Crimson wrote: What's going on with that Escher's face? It is otherwise great model, but those eyes are crazy close together. I hope it is only the painting.
It's a lot better than the female faces they used to do. Given that it's probably at least 5x as large on your monitor than it will be in in hand I wouldn't worry too much.
Giuseppe Chiafele wrote:
Kria the Huntress preview on warhammer community! From the Amazing designer Alexandre Dumillard this has been the hardest model that I've Painted until now!
I'm pretty excited about the Necron construct presuming it's very large; if it's similar in size to a Triarch Stalker then I would pass as the Triarch Stalker is a very similar aesthetic but has much cleaner lines.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've said this before, but I really do wish all Necron vehicles were like that - living (so to speak) constructs rather than crewed vehicles.
It's certainly my preferred style of Necron vehicle.
Ouze did an excellent stalker conversion. It's not only what the model should have looked like in the first place, but also matches up quite well with this new big beastie.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've said this before, but I really do wish all Necron vehicles were like that - living (so to speak) constructs rather than crewed vehicles.
I refuse to leave any crew on what should be autonomous vehicles. I convert where I can (Triarch Stalker) and proxy where I can't (tomb blades). I have some not-yet-photographed "drones" I cobbled up to replace them, they look kind of like small H/Ks from the Terminator movies.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've said this before, but I really do wish all Necron vehicles were like that - living (so to speak) constructs rather than crewed vehicles.
Ditto. Or at least a featureless, geometric shape, like the monolith. I really don't like the necron vehicles. Aesthetically they are fine, the just don't fit in with the rest of the army, and they are a bitch to assemble. You could tell it was something that was drawn by some artist who didn't know anything about necrons and they pushed it for a buck. If I could convert away the pilots I would, but my conversion skills aren't great so I had to leave the pilots in, as otherwise I might do something irreversible. I did manage to cover up the stupid hole in the scythe, which ruins an otherwise excellent model. My makeshift covering doesn't look great though.
Anyone else noticing a similarity with the new cron vehicle and imperial knights, the carapace is quite similar, I wonder if that’s a purposeful “void dragon” inspired result or just a coincidence.
Formosa wrote: Anyone else noticing a similarity with the new cron vehicle and imperial knights, the carapace is quite similar, I wonder if that’s a purposeful “void dragon” inspired result or just a coincidence.
I think FW is just taking shortcuts. Its a common thing artists and whatnot do to save time.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've said this before, but I really do wish all Necron vehicles were like that - living (so to speak) constructs rather than crewed vehicles.
I quite like the crewed vehicles; it adds to the "Lovecraft meets Pinocchio" feel to the Necrons. Integrated constructs might be more efficient, but the Necronms are desperate to cling on to (or reclaim) their ... necrontyrity, so they use machinery like they did when they were alive. The constructs are either AIs that were never living beings, or they're controlled by those Necrons who are too far gone to be "recoverable". I think things like Destroyers are objects of pity (and not a little horror) to the more humanoid Necrons.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've said this before, but I really do wish all Necron vehicles were like that - living (so to speak) constructs rather than crewed vehicles.
I quite like the crewed vehicles; it adds to the "Lovecraft meets Pinocchio" feel to the Necrons. Integrated constructs might be more efficient, but the Necronms are desperate to cling on to (or reclaim) their ... necrontyrity, so they use machinery like they did when they were alive. The constructs are either AIs that were never living beings, or they're controlled by those Necrons who are too far gone to be "recoverable". I think things like Destroyers are objects of pity (and not a little horror) to the more humanoid Necrons.
Until you realize that there's no reason why they would be exposed like that, as they are supposed to have been a race obsessed with self preservation when they were alive. Designing a military vehicle in such a way that the pilot is exposed is counterproductive. I don't care if there's a quantum shield, its still a stupid idea to tempt fate into shooting you in the face with a lascannon because you're too stupid to put a nice, big sheet of metal in front of you. It just doesn't make sense as a necron vehicle. It flies in face of their own lore and established aesthetic.
I've been thinking about how much I hate crewed necron vehicles - like Tomb Blades. I had done these conversions but I never posted pictures because I never finished them/
Now that I have a 3D printer, I don't even know that I will finish them. In my mind I can redo them better in Rhino3D instead and print them with, ahem, straight lines instead of slightly warped greenstuff and uneven . So, here are my Necron Drones\ Tomb Blade replacement proxies made from little bits of this and that at various stages of development, maybe someone else will be inspired to build these, or something better.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've said this before, but I really do wish all Necron vehicles were like that - living (so to speak) constructs rather than crewed vehicles.
I quite like the crewed vehicles; it adds to the "Lovecraft meets Pinocchio" feel to the Necrons. Integrated constructs might be more efficient, but the Necronms are desperate to cling on to (or reclaim) their ... necrontyrity, so they use machinery like they did when they were alive. The constructs are either AIs that were never living beings, or they're controlled by those Necrons who are too far gone to be "recoverable". I think things like Destroyers are objects of pity (and not a little horror) to the more humanoid Necrons.
Until you realize that there's no reason why they would be exposed like that, as they are supposed to have been a race obsessed with self preservation in life.
Designing a military vehicle in such a way that the pilot is exposed is counterproductive. I don't care if there's a quantum shield, its still a stupid idea to tempt fate into shooting you in the face with a lascannon because you're too stupid to put a nice, big sheet of metal in front of you.
That's a different argument. And not one that's exclusive to Necrons - Eldar, Tau and Imperial vehicles all have similar design flaws. Also, if the vehicle is protected by an energy shield, then it's not exposed, is it?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've said this before, but I really do wish all Necron vehicles were like that - living (so to speak) constructs rather than crewed vehicles.
I quite like the crewed vehicles; it adds to the "Lovecraft meets Pinocchio" feel to the Necrons. Integrated constructs might be more efficient, but the Necronms are desperate to cling on to (or reclaim) their ... necrontyrity, so they use machinery like they did when they were alive. The constructs are either AIs that were never living beings, or they're controlled by those Necrons who are too far gone to be "recoverable". I think things like Destroyers are objects of pity (and not a little horror) to the more humanoid Necrons.
Until you realize that there's no reason why they would be exposed like that, as they are supposed to have been a race obsessed with self preservation in life. Designing a military vehicle in such a way that the pilot is exposed is counterproductive. I don't care if there's a quantum shield, its still a stupid idea to tempt fate into shooting you in the face with a lascannon because you're too stupid to put a nice, big sheet of metal in front of you.
That's a different argument. And not one that's exclusive to Necrons - Eldar, Tau and Imperial vehicles all have similar design flaws. Also, if the vehicle is protected by an energy shield, then it's not exposed, is it?
Perhaps not, but it does tell your enemy where to concentrate its fire. Its still painting a big target onto it. Tempting fate is never a good idea...unless you are an ork, or have crazy luck powers or something. What gaping weakpoints do Tau vehicles have, save for the Stormsurge? Or imperial vehicles? Hell, even Eldar vehicles are more sensibly designed, as they tend to have a nice cockpit covering.
I should have said "some", sorry. I'm thinking of the Eldar War Walker and Vyper and the Tau Piranha and Tetra and the Stormsurge. Also Imperial Scout Sentinels, Land Speeders and the Tauros and Tauros Venator.
I suppose, once I've accepted (or invented) my theory above, the crew need to be visible on the model to continue that theme.
Most of those tend to be light vehicles with more an emphasis on speed and recon rather than being proper combat vehicles though, and they still do a better job in protecting their pilot.
Even the stormsurge's pilots are only exposed from the back, not the front.
The only way the necron vehicles make sense is if they are re-purposed civilian vehicles that were hastily outfitted for war before biotransference, and the necrons couldn't be bothered fully adapting them after becoming machines. The ghost ark fits this description, but not the Doomsday Ark, the barges or the flyers.
It does say that the DDA isn't meant to be a frontline combat vehicle, but that still doesn't justify the exposed pilot. The stormsurge and basilisks aren't supposed to be on the frontline either, iirc, and even they have more plating. Annihilation barges are supposed to be defensive vehicles, so you'd think they'd be a bit more armored to go with that role. They aren't even long ranged. Triarch Stalkers are also supposed to be assault walkers, and yet 50% of the pilot is exposed. Why wouldn't you concentrate fire at him? With sentinels only the head is exposed and there's plenty of cover for the pilot to duck behind, and with war walkers only the sides are exposed, and the walker is fast enough to get to a safer position.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've said this before, but I really do wish all Necron vehicles were like that - living (so to speak) constructs rather than crewed vehicles.
I quite like the crewed vehicles; it adds to the "Lovecraft meets Pinocchio" feel to the Necrons. Integrated constructs might be more efficient, but the Necronms are desperate to cling on to (or reclaim) their ... necrontyrity, so they use machinery like they did when they were alive. The constructs are either AIs that were never living beings, or they're controlled by those Necrons who are too far gone to be "recoverable". I think things like Destroyers are objects of pity (and not a little horror) to the more humanoid Necrons.
Until you realize that there's no reason why they would be exposed like that, as they are supposed to have been a race obsessed with self preservation when they were alive.
Designing a military vehicle in such a way that the pilot is exposed is counterproductive. I don't care if there's a quantum shield, its still a stupid idea to tempt fate into shooting you in the face with a lascannon because you're too stupid to put a nice, big sheet of metal in front of you.
It just doesn't make sense as a necron vehicle. It flies in face of their own lore and established aesthetic.
Er, no. It might have had armored cockpit once - you can clearly see two holes that might have been mounting points on each sides of the spine. Then, it might have been removed - maybe to increase parameters as the excess weight was now useless ballast, maybe because Warrior was too dumb to get out otherwise. We don't know. But I agree with Paul, this was Necron fighter that once had a living pilot, and the reason to put metal one in now (even if the actual flying is done by AI) is the fact Necrontyr had done so once and now inflexible and static Necrons won't rock the boat too much in hopes of regaining what they once lost. Really, anything strong enough to outright destroy Necron Warrior would probably punch straight through any metal sheet you'd put in there and you might argue it's the Warrior who is now the (extremely advanced, self-repairing) metal sheet for the computer behind him...
Oh good, you're here to start yet another post of yours with something along the lines of "No! You are wrong!".
Ouze wrote: I've been thinking about how much I hate crewed necron vehicles - like Tomb Blades. I had done these conversions but I never posted pictures because I never finished them
We're drifting a little off topic here, but I've always found Tomb Blades to be one of the goofier (and redundant) units in the Necron lineup.
I mean, they have Necrons who have converted to hover-bike-type-people - Destroyers - yet they also have guys who (hang droopily) on actual speeder bikes? Why?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've said this before, but I really do wish all Necron vehicles were like that - living (so to speak) constructs rather than crewed vehicles.
I quite like the crewed vehicles; it adds to the "Lovecraft meets Pinocchio" feel to the Necrons. Integrated constructs might be more efficient, but the Necronms are desperate to cling on to (or reclaim) their ... necrontyrity, so they use machinery like they did when they were alive. The constructs are either AIs that were never living beings, or they're controlled by those Necrons who are too far gone to be "recoverable". I think things like Destroyers are objects of pity (and not a little horror) to the more humanoid Necrons.
Until you realize that there's no reason why they would be exposed like that, as they are supposed to have been a race obsessed with self preservation when they were alive. Designing a military vehicle in such a way that the pilot is exposed is counterproductive. I don't care if there's a quantum shield, its still a stupid idea to tempt fate into shooting you in the face with a lascannon because you're too stupid to put a nice, big sheet of metal in front of you. It just doesn't make sense as a necron vehicle. It flies in face of their own lore and established aesthetic.
Er, no. It might have had armored cockpit once - you can clearly see two holes that might have been mounting points on each sides of the spine. Then, it might have been removed - maybe to increase parameters as the excess weight was now useless ballast, maybe because Warrior was too dumb to get out otherwise. We don't know. But I agree with Paul, this was Necron fighter that once had a living pilot, and the reason to put metal one in now (even if the actual flying is done by AI) is the fact Necrontyr had done so once and now inflexible and static Necrons won't rock the boat too much in hopes of regaining what they once lost. Really, anything strong enough to outright destroy Necron Warrior would probably punch straight through any metal sheet you'd put in there and you might argue it's the Warrior who is now the (extremely advanced, self-repairing) metal sheet for the computer behind him...
...or they could just leave the pilot out, replace it with machinery to make their flyer better or even just more armor and not waste warriors piloting craft that don't need pilots. Living metal, the material that necron vehicles is also self repairing, and it makes no sense to put a warrior there to act as a shield when they could use said warrior for more productive tasks. Like shooting the enemy. On the ground. And that still doesn't change the fact that its still an exposed cockpit. A warrior there would not stop an explosion from hitting the computer. You know what will? A nice thick layer of living metal.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh good, you're here to start yet another post of yours with something along the lines of "No! You are wrong!".
Ouze wrote: I've been thinking about how much I hate crewed necron vehicles - like Tomb Blades. I had done these conversions but I never posted pictures because I never finished them
We're drifting a little off topic here, but I've always found Tomb Blades to be one of the goofier (and redundant) units in the Necron lineup.
I mean, they have Necrons who have converted to hover-bike-type-people - Destroyers - yet they also have guys who (hand droopily) on actual speeder bikes? Why?
Apparently they were designed as fighter spacecraft during the end of the War in Heaven, so I guess the necrons were just slapping together crap at that point to make new weapons. Why a warrior and not a canoptek unit? Idk. I mean, the warrior isn't actually needed as the attack patterns are preprogrammed, so its not as if its actually piloting it.
The other angle that makes sense is that most of the "crew" on Necron vehicles are at best 'warriors' .. i.e. lower caste peons
I mean look at the Imperium, why haven't they moved from the Billions of servitors / human slaves that operate 99% of everything ? ... why would they ... they aren't exactly a rare commodity.
So who cares if a necron pilot gets blown out the sky.. the Canoptek cleanup crew will clean that right up later ..
Necron Overlord snaps his metallic fingers and two more scythes deploy to replace the downed one.
none of it has to do with logic, more to do with arrogance of the ruling Lords.
the majority of the ruling Necrons don't actually want the minions to get their souls back .. they want to get themselves back + immortality benefits and Spa and Country club access.
A few warriors get blowed up along the way, who cares?
Does FW not realise that my whole waiting on starting Necromunda is hinging on them releasing big cats? (and possibly trying to at least get the bulk of my Daughters of Khaine force at least half built and bought)
This painter has been fairly controversial, and I think it shows why GW paint models like they do, in the Eavy Metal style: it is perfect for clearly and cleanly showcasing the sculpt. It's not a vehicle for the painter's self-expression, it's made to show off a product in the best way possible. The FW painter is great at painting, and I'm sure his armies look amazing (his diorama in the latest WD is great), but they're not the best for extreme close-ups meant to sell a product.
I think it's funny that the description says she has flak armour yet the rules say she has mesh armour... I will still buy her but is funny. I am waiting for BRUTES!!! omg when are they gunna be released it's been an age.
The brutes *and* the pets... in addition to all the other bounty hunters... and that is just what we know of. If the rumours of juve models are true...!
Mymearan wrote: This painter has been fairly controversial, and I think it shows why GW paint models like they do, in the Eavy Metal style: it is perfect for clearly and cleanly showcasing the sculpt
Well, then they completely failed at that. The sculpt is great, the paint job totally ignores the sculpt of the eyes.
Mymearan wrote: This painter has been fairly controversial, and I think it shows why GW paint models like they do, in the Eavy Metal style: it is perfect for clearly and cleanly showcasing the sculpt
Well, then they completely failed at that. The sculpt is great, the paint job totally ignores the sculpt of the eyes.
You're agreeing with each other, his point is that this model isn't done in the 'Eavy Metal style and GW use that style for a reason.
I'd say that other than the eyes, there's nothing wrong with this paint job and it's better than 90% of the 'Eavy Metal output.
It was still fairly impressive as the answer (yes, it is the paint job) was typed out about an hour and a half before your post asking if it was...the paint job.
Anyway, can the OP please update the thread title?
Mysterio wrote: It was still fairly impressive as the answer (yes, it is the paint job) was typed out about an hour and a half before your post asking if it was...the paint job.
Anyway, can the OP please update the thread title?
Thanks!
I think your definition of impressive is sub-normal. Is this about the Ad Mech stuff? Please no. I don'y like adding people to my ignore list, it's a headache when they're in a thread that interests me, I have to read their posts anyway since it could have good info (never does, but still I must click).
Mysterio wrote: I do hope that they get back to more of what they were doing, soon.
Unreleasing models?
Hasn't the reorganisation really been going on since the sad passing of Alan Bligh? I should think he means back to that point, not what we had a couple of months ago.
If my memory banks aren't playing their usual tricks, didn't they say late 2019 for the next HH black book with catch up releases for models in the published ones in the meantime.The latter certainly hasn't been much in evidence yet, though you'd have thought the generic legion consuls previewed recently can;t be too far off.
Your wit would be impressive had the answer before yours not been typed hours before.
Could you entertain the notion that, as the author of one of the comments seemingly in question, I was confirming IAmAGeek's assertion? I wasn't trying to be particularly witty, just a spot of light snark to start the day. Having seen your interaction with Mysterio, feel free to also ignore me henceforth.
And about two weeks ago I caved and made an order that cost me about £12 in shipping. Oh well, at least at a standard of £3.50 going onwards I can actually justify it to myself now. That 12% was so goddamn stupid.
plays as first world problems intensify.
