"Valid concerns" my arse, this is ridiculous. CB has done the exact opposite of EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER. COMPANY.
Please, tell explain to me me how my all my Warmachine MKII units that were amazing and now suddenly in MKIII are utterly useless, that is is somehow better than ACA in N3 getting put on hiatus. Please tell me how my 8th edition 40K Wulfen who doubled in price and are less effective are better than ACA and MMRF. ACA and MRRF who have literally gotten rules UPGRADES before being retired. feth you, feth your saltiness, feth your self entitled ridiculousness, nothing's been Squatted and everything remains viable.
ACA and MRRF being retired aren't a great option, but they'r e a pretty amazing option compared to what EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER. GAMES. COMPANY. DOES.
It's a problem that every even mildly growing company is eventually going to face. For a miniature companies this is a more complex problem as various lines are intertwined to the product as a whole.
There are technical steps that can alleviate the problem and some were mentioned, but sooner or later, due to the game mechanics being changed or new profiles being a result of a new mindset, the older factions are going to feal it.
There will be products that are lower performing, saying that it's fine to remove them is a rather narrow way of looking at it. SAA for instance was part of the PanO, although neglected by CB, it has a decent number of player, if those charts are to be believed. Proportionally SAA might still form a larger entity than say MAF, QK or Shasvasti. Why not remove them, if sacrifices need to be made?
Nobody wants to see what they enjoy being cut off, neither is really productive to go along of "it's your turn to bear the cross". If sacrifices need to be made, please, don't try to sugar coat it how better for the rest is going to be.
For CB that is producer of its own miniature games IP they've found themselves in an uncomfortable situation. It doesn't help that they've decided to expand their own IP with the board game, that like its main game, is also bound to find itself in a similar problem as her parent game. Over time more characters will be introduced, certain character will be sold less, others more, the sum of them forming either a net win or a loss.
CB is likely going to start pondering what's so great about the Aristea! products that are their high runners and likely focus on their aesthetics and game mechanics and try to copy them. Certain products will also likely be removed or find themselves sharing a spot with their main game.
Squating is not what is happening. If you like the now oop sectorials you should have the models. If you do you can still play them. If you don't have the models you have a last chance to get them if you were putting it off.
If you don't have tge models and were not planning on getting them then why tge feth do you care, or are you crying thst a toy you've been ignoring is being put away?
Sure, not many people will play a oop sectorial. Not many people play them now though, that's the point. The suggestion that people will suddenly stop playing models they own already becuase they can't buy stuff they already have (even though they still have rules) in rather baffling.
Kalamadea wrote: Please, tell explain to me me how my all my Warmachine MKII units that were amazing and now suddenly in MKIII are utterly useless, that is is somehow better than ACA in N3 getting put on hiatus. Please tell me how my 8th edition 40K Wulfen who doubled in price and are less effective are better than ACA and MMRF. .
Should I want to buy those models, I can still buy them. New players can see the models, choose they want to play them regardless of rules and buy them. Want to play an army that got updated last year? Nope sorry
The removal of SAA isn't the issue, it's the possibility that they could take out any sectorial on a whim. When they did it to Merovingia, it was bad but they were an old range. We were led to believe it was because updates were too time consuming and weren't on the cards for that reason. SAA is almost entirely up to date models, and pretty recent updates, but they got pulled because they had 10 less players than MO at Interplanetario. 10 people. In terms of sales that really isn't much of a difference, and in terms of gaining new players the new sculpts are more appealing than the ancient NCA and MO lines (obviously with the exception of the limited new models).
CB are gaining a lot from the new sectorials, but they're still haemorrhaging players with these continued stupid decisions. With this latest announcement my group is dead, because it's abundantly clear that more and more CB don't give a damn about the player, only the customer
Kalamadea wrote: "Valid concerns" my arse, this is ridiculous. CB has done the exact opposite of EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER. COMPANY.
Please, tell explain to me me how my all my Warmachine MKII units that were amazing and now suddenly in MKIII are utterly useless, that is is somehow better than ACA in N3 getting put on hiatus. Please tell me how my 8th edition 40K Wulfen who doubled in price and are less effective are better than ACA and MMRF. ACA and MRRF who have literally gotten rules UPGRADES before being retired. feth you, feth your saltiness, feth your self entitled ridiculousness, nothing's been Squatted and everything remains viable.
ACA and MRRF being retired aren't a great option, but they'r e a pretty amazing option compared to what EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER. GAMES. COMPANY. DOES.
We're not talking about other games here, only Infinity. What GW or Privateer does doesn't really matter to people's reactions to what CB does.
Those things sound rather sucky, sorry your stuff got screwed but just because someone else does something similar or worse doesn't matter to this discussion. Also using one companies bad behavior to justify or excuses another companies bad behavior is kind of lame as they're all something that shouldn't be acceptable.
Don't you guys ever get tired of the constant outrage?
Games that go on a long time change. They have to. It has happened to every single one of them, and yup, it will continue to happen to every single one of them. Edition changes, products going out of print or being dropped, nerfs, rebalances, point changes, and so on. These things don't have to be the end of the world, and yet every time... you'd think that miniature games catered exclusively to Chicken Littles.
Yall need to accept that change happens. You won't always like it, but you need to at least understand that it is coming. Your cheese will be moved. A lot. Constantly. No matter what.
Sometimes you need a little bit of controlled fire to remove all the dry underbrush so that you don't end up with an out of control blaze destroying half of California later. Don't confuse the two. Losing SAA is a controlled fire. It is for the health and well being of the forest.
Be thankful for what you have, appreciate what you had, and look forward to what you will have.
I guess you can hate what you have, resent what you had, and look upon the future with suspicion and contempt - but I really don't think that's healthy.
Sqorgar wrote: Be thankful for what you have, appreciate what you had, and look forward to what you will have.
Or sell your stuff on eBay to buy all that cool new Kill Team stuff.
It's not outrage, it's a legitimate concern that CB really doesn't know how to handle thing. N# was supposed to fix everything, it didn't. They could have gracefully retired old SKUs (I meant sectorial) and made them direct only to appease their real customers retailers. Of course they could have sorted out there dizzy array of SKUs long before this, but... The JSA rebellion wasn't handled well from a player end customer stand point. We won't talk about the prerelease Aristeia card. And when ever someone complains to CB it is their cavalier attitude and flippant responses that make some wonder if this is a real business or just some bros out for the lulz.
CB has a history of brushing off legit concerns and saying trust us, we know what we are doing. History says otherwise.
N3 fixed quite a bit. Expecting it to fix everything was unrealistic. The Exrah units should have been given legacy profiles and classified as mercs. HSN3 added too much bloat.
The news about ASA however... I do want to see the official announcement about ASA. AS long as the sectorial remains viable, and playable in all situations, like ITS, I won't have a problem.
CB would do well to suggest "official" proxies too. Fusiliers for Regulars ( since they are a sort of fusilier anyway) with blue/green paint scheme instead of blue/light blue) and so forth.
Sqorgar wrote: I get it. Change is bad. Yeargh! Change! So frustrating!
I'm just having a hard time mustering up the outrage over something so predictable. SAA isn't that popular and it hasn't gotten nearly the support that most of the other sectorials haven't gotten. If you had to drop a sectorial from Infinity, it's the one to drop. Hell, I forgot it even existed for a while there. And so did you, and you know it.
No, the one to drop was NCA or Military Orders if sticking strictly in PanO.
SAA got a new Sectorial starter set in 2016 or 2017. They also got a brand new Bagh-Mari box and HMG---both of which are slated to retire.
NCA's starter set is a garbage hodgepodge of old stock(Aquila Guard with Multi Rifle, Hexa with Spitfire, Swiss Guard with ML) and the only way to get the non-Fusilier Core Link for the Sectorial(Bolts).
Military Order starter is just old.
YOU might not have remembered that they existed for a while, but a lot of other people didn't. Shock Army was frequently discussed over on the official forums as a good look at how a PanO Sectorial could be different while still retaining the core features of PanO. It was also frequently hailed as the 'best' PanO Sectorial because "it's like you're not even playing PanO!".
YOU might not have remembered that they existed for a while, but a lot of other people did and lamented the fact that the starter set was so wonky. It's 5 SWC for the box when the points total is 136. In case you don't believe me:
Spoiler:
Shock Army of Acontecimento ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
That put a lot of people off from the box, since it required two boxes to really be useful--and then you end up with dupes of some models you don't really ever need dupes of. Arguably a lot of people that were interested just went for Bagh-Mari box+HMG then got the standard PanO starter(since it includes the 'basic' Akali instead of a Hacker) and used the Fusiliers as Regulars, since it also gave them an ORC for the Duo that was a big deal for SAA.
CB is probably going to make some other changes to game in the near future. Just a warning. Don't want you to be blind sided again.
This isn't a change to the game though. This is them removing product from sale because of their own ineptitude when it comes to releasing stuff.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Red Harvest wrote: N3 fixed quite a bit. Expecting it to fix everything was unrealistic. The Exrah units should have been given legacy profiles and classified as mercs. HSN3 added too much bloat.
The news about ASA however... I do want to see the official announcement about ASA. AS long as the sectorial remains viable, and playable in all situations, like ITS, I won't have a problem.
CB would do well to suggest "official" proxies too. Fusiliers for Regulars ( since they are a sort of fusilier anyway) with blue/green paint scheme instead of blue/light blue) and so forth.
Simply put, Regulars suffer from Catachan syndrome. They were hyped up too much as their own thing when they could have been just variation uniforms or gear.
Regulars never really needed their own box or to be the main component in a SAA starter. They needed a few blisters at best, or maybe a single box with a few of their unique profiles. If they'd been given the same 'look' as normal Fusiliers? Then the normal PanO starter all of a sudden becomes even more appealing to SAA players.
Rygnan wrote:Should I want to buy those models, I can still buy them. New players can see the models, choose they want to play them regardless of rules and buy them. Want to play an army that got updated last year? Nope sorry
You haven't though. Considering that CB has thier own sales data, I'd bet not many new players were buying them either. With the new stuff they've brought out and all the other things in Infinity I don't think it's an actual problem.
CB are gaining a lot from the new sectorials, but they're still haemorrhaging players with these continued stupid decisions. With this latest announcement my group is dead, because it's abundantly clear that more and more CB don't give a damn about the player, only the customer
Seriously!? No one has or is losing anything orher than an option they didn't care about till it got retired.
Sqorgar wrote:Don't you guys ever get tired of the constant outrage?
Games that go on a long time change. They have to. It has happened to every single one of them, and yup, it will continue to happen to every single one of them. Edition changes, products going out of print or being dropped, nerfs, rebalances, point changes, and so on. These things don't have to be the end of the world, and yet every time... you'd think that miniature games catered exclusively to Chicken Littles.
I feel like negative Infinity players should go play some 40k, either they'll get some perspective or thier hunger for outrage will be much better met and echoed.
Chairman Aeon wrote:
Sqorgar wrote: Be thankful for what you have, appreciate what you had, and look forward to what you will have.
Or sell your stuff on eBay to buy all that cool new Kill Team stuff.
It's not outrage, it's a legitimate concern that CB really doesn't know how to handle thing. N# was supposed to fix everything, it didn't. They could have gracefully retired old SKUs (I meant sectorial) and made them direct only to appease their real customers retailers. Of course they could have sorted out there dizzy array of SKUs long before this, but... The JSA rebellion wasn't handled well from a player end customer stand point. We won't talk about the prerelease Aristeia card. And when ever someone complains to CB it is their cavalier attitude and flippant responses that make some wonder if this is a real business or just some bros out for the lulz.
CB has a history of brushing off legit concerns and saying trust us, we know what we are doing. History says otherwise.
Sure, go do that. The GW approach of ignoring things and letting power creep past it till no one plays it before retiring models is much better.
I doubt it's as easy to run a games company as some people here seem to think. How the feth do you know what tge best way is for them to run thier company? How the feth do you know thier capabilities or constraints?
The way they are retiring these lines seems graceful and sensible to me. As far as I can tell CB consider data, rather than what some negative people on the intermet when making decisions.
Not to mention that CB obviously want to keep things changing, but are considerate enough not to make mini's unplayable (recently). If you don't like it historical rulesets and mini's stay the same for decades at a time, try that instead.
They look at the ITS files and they claim to have sales data...but they can't, as they don't interface directly with every single retailer out there.
Additionally talking about "power creep" is lol. USARF is a new Sectorial and is being basically replaced by TAK. StarCo is doing the same thing to Bakunin and Corregidor. Druze makes QK look lackluster--and the list goes on and on and on.
Infinity is THE game for power creep. They don't tend to put new skills onto old stuff. Not until another edition drops.
Sqorgar wrote: Don't you guys ever get tired of the constant outrage?
Sure. It's why I'm pretty much done with CB for the time being. They cause the outrage and revel in it. And it's not just this one thing it's stuff that's been going on for quite sometime building up. Some recent stuff is:
They sign a contract for a 3rd party for an RPG where CB has to do approvals on everything and take months to review anything so the books are years behind.
Uprising. I wasn't even bothered as much as others as I'm a JSA player and I wanted them to braek from YJ but CB handeled poorly then made fun of those that had legiditame complaints about the figures they bough no longer being useable with Carlos on Facebook and in videos saying stuff like "if you're mad no wait till you see what we do next as Uprising was nothing. We really want to make people mad next time." That kind of crap is annoying and is one of the reasons I've stopped paying attention. Either apologize if you think you handeled wrong or don't say anything all. Bating people and turning a blind eye to valid complaints is dumb. Even saying something like "sorry, we realize this sucks for some Yu-Jing players but we realy needed to do this." would have been better then their main spokesperson basically laughing at their customers.
Now a complete dropping of an Army that has a bunch of new figures. You just can't trust now that if you're investing in a sectorial that it will ever get finished. If they just released everything for an army at over 2-3 months that would be one thing but CB likes to take a year or two to complete the models for what's in a book. And I'm sure Carlos will start making fun of people that have this complaint because that's CB's MO for that past while.
Kanluwen wrote: They look at the ITS files and they claim to have sales data...but they can't, as they don't interface directly with every single retailer out there.
Additionally talking about "power creep" is lol. USARF is a new Sectorial and is being basically replaced by TAK. StarCo is doing the same thing to Bakunin and Corregidor. Druze makes QK look lackluster--and the list goes on and on and on.
Infinity is THE game for power creep. They don't tend to put new skills onto old stuff. Not until another edition drops.
They do have absolute sales data as they make the stuff in the first place, sure some of it is sale to retailers and distributors which will hang around in warehouses & stores and never make it into consumers hands but that's going to be a minority (if only because distributors & stores won't reorder stuff that hasn't moved)
It doesn't matter how much people claim to want something, if it doesn't move from the shelves of the stores or direct from CB they're lying (or the price is too high, but that's a different issues and unless CB is playing with their margins on some lines but not others not really relevant)
Kanluwen wrote: Infinity is THE game for power creep. They don't tend to put new skills onto old stuff. Not until another edition drops.
That's just not true. New stuff is not the same as being more powerful.
The older sectorials can still compete. It's far from the newest codex being stronger, nor can one predict the winner of a game just from the matchup.
Kanluwen wrote: They look at the ITS files and they claim to have sales data...but they can't, as they don't interface directly with every single retailer out there.
Additionally talking about "power creep" is lol. USARF is a new Sectorial and is being basically replaced by TAK. StarCo is doing the same thing to Bakunin and Corregidor. Druze makes QK look lackluster--and the list goes on and on and on.
Infinity is THE game for power creep. They don't tend to put new skills onto old stuff. Not until another edition drops.
They do have absolute sales data as they make the stuff in the first place, sure some of it is sale to retailers and distributors which will hang around in warehouses & stores and never make it into consumers hands but that's going to be a minority (if only because distributors & stores won't reorder stuff that hasn't moved)
It doesn't matter how much people claim to want something, if it doesn't move from the shelves of the stores or direct from CB they're lying (or the price is too high, but that's a different issues and unless CB is playing with their margins on some lines but not others not really relevant)
In which case there are way better ways to frame your actions.
Instead of saying "We are no longer going to make X products ever again", say something like "We are going to cease regular production of X products. We may occasionally produce X products for limited runs at unspecified times."
Its not so much the message, but how it was framed and delivered, plus the general attitude problem they have sometimes. Same thing PP did when Mk3 was released. Acted all high and mighty, ignoring player concerns and then when the players concerns turned out to be valid(ALA: Skorne) they fell flat but never actually apologized.
Corvus Belli is still very much a tiny fish in a big pond. They cannot afford to piss of their customers. And that is exactly what they did in this case.
Kanluwen wrote: Infinity is THE game for power creep. They don't tend to put new skills onto old stuff. Not until another edition drops.
That's just not true. New stuff is not the same as being more powerful.
The older sectorials can still compete. It's far from the newest codex being stronger, nor can one predict the winner of a game just from the matchup.
Competing is not the same as having the options. It literally is "the newest codex being stronger", and I can pretty confidently tell you that yes you can predict the winner of a game just from the matchup in these circumstances.
OrlandotheTechnicolored wrote:They do have absolute sales data as they make the stuff in the first place, sure some of it is sale to retailers and distributors which will hang around in warehouses & stores and never make it into consumers hands but that's going to be a minority (if only because distributors & stores won't reorder stuff that hasn't moved)
This is a fallacious argument. You're not factoring in that Corvus Belli can and does artificially limit the volume of production on items and they do encourage split boxing by retailers and third-parties.
It doesn't matter how much people claim to want something, if it doesn't move from the shelves of the stores or direct from CB they're lying (or the price is too high, but that's a different issues and unless CB is playing with their margins on some lines but not others not really relevant)
This isn't true. Shae-Konnit is an example of this as he makes a killing from split boxes, to a point where he won't sell certain items from boxes until the other stuff moves.
In which case there are way better ways to frame your actions.
Instead of saying "We are no longer going to make X products ever again", say something like "We are going to cease regular production of X products. We may occasionally produce X products for limited runs at unspecified times."
Its not so much the message, but how it was framed and delivered, plus the general attitude problem they have sometimes. Same thing PP did when Mk3 was released. Acted all high and mighty, ignoring player concerns and then when the players concerns turned out to be valid(ALA: Skorne) they fell flat but never actually apologized.
Corvus Belli is still very much a tiny fish in a big pond. They cannot afford to piss of their customers. And that is exactly what they did in this case.
The stupidest part is that they're trying to frame it as a production/SKU thing. I said from the outset with Shock Army that it should have been given a big army pack ala USARF or now the JSA. I genuinely feel they need to accept that some armies are going to cause SKU bloat and production issues by their very nature of requiring large numbers of models and profiles.
But nope. I clearly am just a disgruntled customer who can't be pleased. Not someone who gave a frig about the game from fairly early on and tried to be a productive commentator who then got burned by misleading information. Not that at all!
Can anyone provide some solid numbers on players using sectorials to back all this speculation up?
It seems like a lot of people complaining about a sub-faction they don’t even play, profiles they never use in Vanilla, and models that were never great at release getting discontinued.
I’m still not really convinced. The sectorial is fully fleshed out with N3 standard releases. They are not coming out of army builder. The models will be obtainable for some time. (You can still get MRRF stuff).
Don’t get me wrong, ASA is my preferred PanO sectorial. But, For a game that’s almost always tight urban combat, a bunch of jungle fighters like ASA felt out of place...
Monkeysloth wrote: The only numbers we have are the one's CB has shared based off of ITS lists.
season 9
Spoiler:
So according to this it was way more popular then JSA pre-uprising and that was known to be one of the best selling factions. So who knows really how played vs purchased correlate.
season 8
Spoiler:
Thanks for some facts here. You’re right, purchases would need to be cross referenced.
.
It does seem like a logical choice considering discontinueing ASA SKUs probably won’t inpact too many vanilla PanO players.
But axing something like CJC, Caledonians, or HB would eliminate too many iconic vanilla units.
Instead of saying "We are no longer going to make X products ever again"
That was never said.
To clear misinformation, there is rotating production, sectorials whose units leave production get a minor update, as far as gameplay go, to remain relevant with current meta and will get a proper review further down the line when they get reintroduced to production, maybe with resculpts (the current word is a couple of years, we will have to wait and see for that).
So
Sectorial units gets out of production
For current player this means:
Some quality of life improvements for their chosen sectorial
A proper revision further down the line
New miniatures and maybe units further down the line
For new players it does mean that there might be a scarcity of some units for a while but
The window of that seems to be small
The proxy rules are quite generous for new players to proxy and play the sectorial or its units while it is been reintroduced
There is a clear indication that a sectorial is not been worked on at the moment
Personally I am in favour of this rotational format, makes clear when a sectorial is not worked on and gives a minor revisions to old sectorials making them relevant with the current meta while they are been revised and, if the two years format is true, its not such a big gap that SKU are kept out of production.
Can the rotational production be done differently? probably? can it be tweaked? probably? do any of us have real data on the subject? no, we will have to wait and see, only information I have and see so far is FRRM veteran players be happy about it and FRRM been used again in the tournaments.
Instead of saying "We are no longer going to make X products ever again"
That was never said.
To clear misinformation, there is rotating production, sectorials whose units leave production get a minor update, as far as gameplay go, to remain relevant with current meta and will get a proper review further down the line when they get reintroduced to production, maybe with resculpts (the current word is a couple of years, we will have to wait and see for that).
So
Sectorial units gets out of production
For current player this means:
Some quality of life improvements for their chosen sectorial
A proper revision further down the line
New miniatures and maybe units further down the line
For new players it does mean that there might be a scarcity of some units for a while but
The window of that seems to be small
The proxy rules are quite generous for new players to proxy and play the sectorial or its units while it is been reintroduced
There is a clear indication that a sectorial is not been worked on at the moment
Personally I am in favour of this rotational format, makes clear when a sectorial is not worked on and gives a minor revisions to old sectorials making them relevant with the current meta while they are been revised and, if the two years format is true, its not such a big gap that SKU are kept out of production.
Can the rotational production be done differently? probably? can it be tweaked? probably? do any of us have real data on the subject? no, we will have to wait and see, only information I have and see so far is FRRM veteran players be happy about it and FRRM been used again in the tournaments.
Agreed. I don’t see cause for all the rage.
This was done already with Shas & after some time now, they will be back next year.
This will all be forgotten when Varuna, Shas, & IA drop.
Instead of saying "We are no longer going to make X products ever again"
That was never said.
To clear misinformation, there is rotating production, sectorials whose units leave production get a minor update, as far as gameplay go, to remain relevant with current meta and will get a proper review further down the line when they get reintroduced to production, maybe with resculpts (the current word is a couple of years, we will have to wait and see for that).
So
Sectorial units gets out of production
For current player this means:
Some quality of life improvements for their chosen sectorial
A proper revision further down the line
New miniatures and maybe units further down the line
For new players it does mean that there might be a scarcity of some units for a while but
The window of that seems to be small
The proxy rules are quite generous for new players to proxy and play the sectorial or its units while it is been reintroduced
There is a clear indication that a sectorial is not been worked on at the moment
Personally I am in favour of this rotational format, makes clear when a sectorial is not worked on and gives a minor revisions to old sectorials making them relevant with the current meta while they are been revised and, if the two years format is true, its not such a big gap that SKU are kept out of production.
Can the rotational production be done differently? probably? can it be tweaked? probably? do any of us have real data on the subject? no, we will have to wait and see, only information I have and see so far is FRRM veteran players be happy about it and FRRM been used again in the tournaments.
Fair enough if that is what is actually happening, but it needs to be communicated effectively.
A one armed chimp banging on a typewriter could have communicated that more effectively and better than what actually happened. An unfortunate trend with Corvus Belli(and other game companies too) is bad communication and antagonistic view of their customers.
Competing is not the same as having options indeed; older stuff don't have the newly designed and exciting options, but can still compete. That was my point.
It literally is "the newest codex being stronger", and I can pretty confidently tell you that yes you can predict the winner of a game just from the matchup in these circumstances.
bs. Demonstrate or feth off.
Infinity is balanced quite well.
In which case there are way better ways to frame your actions.
Instead of saying "We are no longer going to make X products ever again", say something like "We are going to cease regular production of X products. We may occasionally produce X products for limited runs at unspecified times."
Unless it's mot viable for them to do that. That woukd be a lie and you would be whining about them bullshitting us.
Also, that not how it's framed anyway; it's been left open to update eventually.
Instead of saying "We are no longer going to make X products ever again"
That was never said.
Nothing official has been said. CB once again is not even trying to get ahead of a story and being stupid because they have "their timeframe" and just pretending nothing is going on. All we have is retailers being told these are going out of production/distribution.
Bladerunner2019 wrote:This was done already with Shas & after some time now, they will be back next year.
This will all be forgotten when Varuna, Shas, & IA drop.
So 5 year rotations? TBH Shas and MRRF are bad examples for this instance as they both were "suspended" rules wise (meaning mostly staying at N2 profiles) but the models didn't dissapear until 4+ years later for MRRF and Shas I don't think have ever gone away--at leats not all as there's a repack release for next month and I know many are avalibe in stores still. So MRRF wasn't really a shock when they discouniued the line as CB hand't done anything with it in years. What got people that I saw, at least, upset with that was CB killing them all off in the fluff. That's also got ASA people worried too, if CB kills that army off in the fluff too it's never coming back just like MRRF.
Instead of saying "We are no longer going to make X products ever again"
That was never said.
To clear misinformation, there is rotating production, sectorials whose units leave production get a minor update, as far as gameplay go, to remain relevant with current meta and will get a proper review further down the line when they get reintroduced to production, maybe with resculpts (the current word is a couple of years, we will have to wait and see for that).
So
Sectorial units gets out of production
For current player this means:
Some quality of life improvements for their chosen sectorial
A proper revision further down the line
New miniatures and maybe units further down the line
For new players it does mean that there might be a scarcity of some units for a while but
The window of that seems to be small
The proxy rules are quite generous for new players to proxy and play the sectorial or its units while it is been reintroduced
There is a clear indication that a sectorial is not been worked on at the moment
Personally I am in favour of this rotational format, makes clear when a sectorial is not worked on and gives a minor revisions to old sectorials making them relevant with the current meta while they are been revised and, if the two years format is true, its not such a big gap that SKU are kept out of production.
Can the rotational production be done differently? probably? can it be tweaked? probably? do any of us have real data on the subject? no, we will have to wait and see, only information I have and see so far is FRRM veteran players be happy about it and FRRM been used again in the tournaments.
This is what we were told about FRRM, which was an ancient line and badly needing resculpts. ASAdid get resculpts, in 2016, and they're still being pulled over the oldest starters in the game. It's now a poor argument and doesn't hold, which is becoming the norm for CB (saying something to defend one bad move, then contradicting it or doing worse later)
On balancing, there are a lot of units that are strictly worse than others. Especially across factions, though I’ve been told that’s not a fair comparison.
CB is sort of in control of their own self fulfilling prophecy here. If a faction has overcosted, underpowered units or boring fire teams, then they won’t sell well. If they don’t have any new models this year, they won’t sell well. Because of that, they’ll be sent on vacation or even retired when CB could have updated their profiles or changed up their fireteams.
I would not at all be surprised if at the next big show they said “Tohaa isn’t popular enough anymore to warrant adding new units, so we’re going to retire part of the line instead” even though by the data quoted above they are the most popular faction and because of that data they took a whole year off? CB will present the data to justify whatever decision they make, regardless if that same reasoning contradicts another decision.
Monkeysloth wrote: The only numbers we have are the one's CB has shared based off of ITS lists.
Spoiler:
season 9
season 8
As a note, we don't know whether or not this is lists that actually get taken in ITS events or just lists saved in Army. They have that information. This is a thing that they've admitted to having in the past and claimed that it drives their decisions as to what profiles actually see models.
Instead of saying "We are no longer going to make X products ever again"
That was never said.
Nothing official has been said. CB once again is not even trying to get ahead of a story and being stupid because they have "their timeframe" and just pretending nothing is going on. All we have is retailers being told these are going out of production/distribution.
Bladerunner2019 wrote:This was done already with Shas & after some time now, they will be back next year.
This will all be forgotten when Varuna, Shas, & IA drop.
So 5 year rotations? TBH Shas and MRRF are bad examples for this instance as they both were "suspended" rules wise (meaning mostly staying at N2 profiles) but the models didn't dissapear until 4+ years later for MRRF and Shas I don't think have ever gone away--at leats not all as there's a repack release for next month and I know many are avalibe in stores still. So MRRF wasn't really a shock when they discouniued the line as CB hand't done anything with it in years. What got people that I saw, at least, upset with that was CB killing them all off in the fluff. That's also got ASA people worried too, if CB kills that army off in the fluff too it's never coming back just like MRRF.
Nobody said they’re getting killed off in the fluff. They may not be specifically mentioned that much for a while. But Shas, MRRF, & now ASA will still be a part of the universe.
Unless they intend to advance the story & destroy Acontecimento outright I don’t see what you’re getting at.
Nobody said they’re getting killed off in the fluff. They may not be specifically mentioned that much for a while. But Shas, MRRF, & now ASA will still be a part of the universe.
Unless they intend to advance the story & destroy Acontecimento outright I don’t see what you’re getting at.
Shasvastii are in the process of getting redone. They were starting after Interplanetario...this has been known since Adepticon/GenCon.
FRRM was literally the only other army shelved alongside Shasvastii. Shasvastii are getting redone and FRRM are getting permashelved. Now Shock Army is getting the same treatment.
Just to chip in. Our local ASA player doesent really care about them getting discontinued.
Nobody over here gives a fuss about it and nobody really cared about what happened to MRRF either. Not even our MRRF player once the new profiles dropped.
If you play ASA just get what you need, if not and want to start it in the future, buy whatever you want. Just get the new Druze and use them as Bagh-mari and now you almost have two armies in one. ASA and DBS.
Hopefully ASA will get some needed improvements out of this as they are a bit lacking at the moment with subpar link options thanks to the high SWC cost of everything and pointless characters. Used to play them some years ago and i found them lacking compared to other sectorials, Thing improved with the introduction of som ALEPH units, especially the FO Naga but the core of the sectorial was still a bit lacking. And that 0,5swc tax on the Regular FO bugged the gak out of me. Never understood why it was there in ASA other than to spite you.
Hopefully ASA will get some needed improvements out of this as they are a bit lacking at the moment with subpar link options thanks to the high SWC cost of everything and pointless characters. Used to play them some years ago and i found them lacking compared to other sectorials, Thing improved with the introduction of som ALEPH units, especially the FO Naga but the core of the sectorial was still a bit lacking. And that 0,5swc tax on the Regular FO bugged the gak out of me. Never understood why it was there in ASA other than to spite you.
The FO Naga wasn't "introduced" to the Sectorial. Nagas have always been in Shock Army since the original Human Sphere. It wasn't until the Naga got a FO profile that Shock Army would have gotten access to them.
The .5 SWC tax seems to have been a holdout from the Fusilier "specialist" tax of old.
The Merovingian army is preparing for its most decisive and epic battle to date, and this will mark a turning point in the Human Sphere – their final stand. This heroic confrontation will truncate dark plans that were directly aimed at undermining humanity’s supremacy from within the sphere.
As were the Spartans at the Battle of Thermopylae, the brave soldiers of Merovingia will be remembered as heroes for their sacrifice.
Merovingia is leaving the Infinity catalog indefinitely. As with humanity among the stars, their future is also uncertain.
Carlos stated at one of his live presnetations that MRRF were all killed in the BoW even this year. The last line I posted goes out of it's way to make sure people know they may never come back.
Until we see an official on ASA we don't know what CB's plans for them are.
As a note, we don't know whether or not this is lists that actually get taken in ITS events or just lists saved in Army. They have that information. This is a thing that they've admitted to having in the past and claimed that it drives their decisions as to what profiles actually see models.
I'm pretty sure I've seen comments on the past that these were what was registered for an ITS event and not just what was made in army. I know they have both sets of data (army and ITS) as we've seen the list of figures people take in the presentation Carlos did around Uprising that showed popularity of figures in YJ as well as sometimes they show off the most popular figures in the whole game. I've assumed that data is from Army but I haven't found anything to confirm but I really kind of lazy looked as I'm not sure how important that is to the current discussion.
Last years Interplanetario winner took MRRF to interplanetaro and scored quite well this year, so I would say yes, they are not only tournament legal, they are also not bad.
MRRF are were the first sectorial to be removed from rotation and the age of their sculpts was not the only reason this happened, in any case they are not "permanently shelved", but their time has not come yet.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Last years Interplanetario winner took MRRF to interplanetaro and scored quite well this year, so I would say yes, they are not only tournament legal, they are also not bad.
I hold no stock in Interplanetario results. Tournaments are tournaments. Lists tend to be the same basic thing with that, and any list that is outside the norm will tend to do well.
MRRF are were the first sectorial to be removed from rotation and the age of their sculpts was not the only reason this happened, in any case they are not "permanently shelved", but their time has not come yet.
Merovingia is leaving the Infinity catalog indefinitely. As with humanity among the stars, their future is also uncertain.
Assuming their time ever comes...
FRRM was the first removed from rotation and the age of their sculpts was the result of them saying they were pulling the force from Human Sphere alongside of the Shasvastii to receive a dramatic overhaul of how the force played. You can try to spin this however you want, but it's right there in the quote from Bostria that they're put on indefinite hold with their future being uncertain.
Hopefully ASA will get some needed improvements out of this as they are a bit lacking at the moment with subpar link options thanks to the high SWC cost of everything and pointless characters. Used to play them some years ago and i found them lacking compared to other sectorials, Thing improved with the introduction of som ALEPH units, especially the FO Naga but the core of the sectorial was still a bit lacking. And that 0,5swc tax on the Regular FO bugged the gak out of me. Never understood why it was there in ASA other than to spite you.
The FO Naga wasn't "introduced" to the Sectorial. Nagas have always been in Shock Army since the original Human Sphere. It wasn't until the Naga got a FO profile that Shock Army would have gotten access to them.
The .5 SWC tax seems to have been a holdout from the Fusilier "specialist" tax of old.
If it was introduced or not is dependent on who your asking. Iv been playing Infinity since the release of Human Sphere N2, around 9 years now so il stick with my statement that it was introduced since the profile didn't exist when i started playing. And ALEPH has been my main faction since then so i know were it came from.
the .5 tax was there pre N3 so you wouldn't just take the Regular over the Fusilier in vanilla because of the +1wip it had. The 0.5 tax shouldn't be in the sectorial especially back in the day when the only FO option ASA had that didn't come with a SWC tax was the Pathfinder. But it came with an indirect tax that was worse because you had to pay the points and SWC for an assault hacker and they were less than useless.
Moving forward, all of the Merovingian models and profiles will be available and legal in the official game and will be available in Infinity Army to use in all official events. This also allows us to consider relaunching the sectorial in the future, should the situation call for it.
CB left the profiles in so people could still play and if they ever decide to relaunch the sectorial if they decide they want too. They stated 3 times that it's going away and could come back sometime in the future but there's no guarantee. I don't see how that could be a miss translation or a language issue.
Kan's argument is until they announce they're coming back we should assume the army in question is dead. Psychotic's argument is they'd say the army is dead if they meant it to be dead.
Psychotic is correct as never is a long time but realistically Kan is as CB has so many things on their plate and places they want to take a game I'm not sure I'd expect MRRF back in the N3 timeframe which is why CB is also not saying they'll be back.
That could be another 5 years for the faction to return and that's a long time for a wargame that's not 40k so who knows what Infinity would be like or if any of the people that are currently wanting the factions to be reworked will still be around so they might as well be considered dead.
R.I.P. Merovingian and Acontecimento fighting the endless waves of Caskuda on the newly found planet Whogivesa...
We've seen this before with other companies
I'd rather never see either of those forces again vs. The smaller company Corvus Belli suffer financially...
Some people just want something to cry about...
Gonna start a new thread Operation: Caskuda drop where we can continue to discuss how incredibly important Merovingian is to the infinity world and to wargames as a Whole... I hope to see you there
Ironically the most whining is coming from those complaining about the people discussing legitimate concerns about how faction removals can effect the game.
I do remember last time Mero were mentioned was how they were being redone and how awesome they would be, totally diffrent playstyle etc...fast forward, now they are shelved. Though in 10 years, who knows, we might see them again, in N4.5 or 5...
PsychoticStorm wrote: MRRF is a case of design not clicking, it can happen unfortunately.
Wrong, it's because they gave the design cues that FRRM had to TAK.
We're seeing it with Varuna right now as well.
Design cues MRRF = TAK?
Nah, I don't see that. Their entire look is different. They don't have a similar play style. Tartary was always there in fluff & had an identity from the beginning.
If anything, TAK came out too similar to USARF.
PsychoticStorm wrote: MRRF is a case of design not clicking, it can happen unfortunately.
Wrong, it's because they gave the design cues that FRRM had to TAK.
We're seeing it with Varuna right now as well.
Design cues MRRF = TAK?
Nah, I don't see that. Their entire look is different. They don't have a similar play style. Tartary was always there in fluff & had an identity from the beginning.
TAK at launch did not have anything remotely similar to FRRM's playstyle. Streloks, Spetsnaz, Frontoviks that all are really stepping on the toes of the FRRM's now defunct camo heavy vibe.
If anything, TAK came out too similar to USARF.
...not really?
The only things "similar" are the addition of the Ratniks and Bikes. That's not to say that TAK isn't arguably better than USARF(the addition of visual mods and skills like Duo on Ratniks, Ambush Camo, etc makes a huge difference) but saying the two are similar is a bit missing the mark.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Both assumptions are wrong, but showcase why MRRF needs to go to the back-burner and needs time to be properly redesigned.
There's no "assumptions". One can look at the army lists and see.
FRRM was built around visual mods, marker statuses, and mid-long range gunfighting.
TAK's initial roster of items(Veteran Kazaks, Tankhunters, Scouts, Antipode Packs, Dog Warriors, Line Kazaks, and Kazak Doctors) had vis mods with some marker stats but the emphasis was more on brute force at shorter ranges.
USARF took the brute force at short-mid range slot, with an emphasis on ARM values over vis mods.
They are assumptions because none of you have any insider info on the design process, all I can say is both sectorials mentioned did not cannibalise MRRF.
PsychoticStorm wrote: They are assumptions because none of you have any insider info on the design process, all I can say is both sectorials mentioned did not cannibalise MRRF.
He didn't say that USARF cannibalized FRRM. He said that TAK cannibalized USARF more than FRRM.
And I can tell you that whatever "insider info" you might have doesn't change the fact that anyone who can read profiles should be VERY aware of the fact that TAK did in fact cannibalize FRRM.
Any chance we can take the Kan/Psycho show about the various design elements on MRRF vs TAK on the road to somewhere else and keep this thread for the news?
I keep getting excited for something new being posted and end up being sad.
Does anyone have an inkling what the cost of the MO 300 might be? I've just realised that I'm yet to buy the Hospitallers, Crusader and Joan (only wanted that one to go on a plinth for terrain).
Bits of the OS and BF could be useful for converting if they aren't significantly adding to the cost.
Riquende wrote: Does anyone have an inkling what the cost of the MO 300 might be? I've just realised that I'm yet to buy the Hospitallers, Crusader and Joan (only wanted that one to go on a plinth for terrain).
Bits of the OS and BF could be useful for converting if they aren't significantly adding to the cost.
Equivalent packs on CB's site are 90 Euros. I don't think I've ever paid more then 70 USD for one of the existing ones. So you can look up what the JSA pack, USAridna or Corregidor is in the UK and that should be the rough price of MO when it comes out.
Riquende wrote: Does anyone have an inkling what the cost of the MO 300 might be? I've just realised that I'm yet to buy the Hospitallers, Crusader and Joan (only wanted that one to go on a plinth for terrain).
Bits of the OS and BF could be useful for converting if they aren't significantly adding to the cost.
I didn't realise it was so close and some stores here actually have it on preorder already, I could have just checked there...
In the UK at least the box essentially amounts to getting the Black Friar free.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Rumours swirling today about some of the Varuna hotness incoming:
An oddity, Kamau primarily won't operate in their own link but use Wilcard to reinforce other links with additional mimetic firepower.
Also making use of Wildcard is the ORC character.
ORCs and Fusiliers will apparently operate in mixed links, not sure on the ratios, could mix freely.
Varuna will be using the NCA Squalo TAG, possibly with an alternative loadout. They will be able to FTuo (I think there might be a non-HMG variant to drop the price, but the implication is that you have a Kamau tag along with them).
Language used for the Helots is 'militia with rear-guard support role'.
Echo Bravo and Zulu Cobra both called out as forward troops with high-tech weaponry but no further detail.
And lastly but definitely not least, Knights of Montesa have motorbikes now. I'd assume they are losing Mech Deploy...
Knights on bikes are stupid and should be treated as such. This is supposed to be the frigging elite counterterrorism group and it's getting a Knight on Bike shoved in.
Not to mention that it's smacking of an attempt to reuse assets and unreleased items now. Montesa Knights have never been mentioned with Varuna and they've never been mentioned to have anything to do with bikes or other nonsense. There's a whole Equestrian Order which would have fit better.
Kanluwen wrote: Knights on bikes are stupid and should be treated as such. This is supposed to be the frigging elite counterterrorism group and it's getting a Knight on Bike shoved in.
Ah, but what happens when the terrorists are on motorbikes?
Montesa Knights have never been mentioned with Varuna and they've never been mentioned to have anything to do with bikes or other nonsense.
Well, they currently mech deploy. We've always assumed they come in via an APC/IFV (that disappears?) or a dropped in via dropship; but maybe they've ridden bikes in all along and left them propped against a wall somewhere? The recent proliferation of bikers in other factions has led the Montesa Elders to realise "hey, we can actually shoot whilst riding these things!"
Kanluwen wrote: Knights on bikes are stupid and should be treated as such. This is supposed to be the frigging elite counterterrorism group and it's getting a Knight on Bike shoved in.
Ah, but what happens when the terrorists are on motorbikes?
Then you call in gunships. Or you use remotes with guided missiles, snipers emplaced along escape routes, mine dispersal units(SPOILER: This was intended to be a PanO piece for Bolts back in the day), and AD units to deal with them.
Montesa Knights have never been mentioned with Varuna and they've never been mentioned to have anything to do with bikes or other nonsense.
Well, they currently mech deploy. We've always assumed they come in via an APC/IFV (that disappears?) or a dropped in via dropship; but maybe they've ridden bikes in all along and left them propped against a wall somewhere? The recent proliferation of bikers in other factions has led the Montesa Elders to realise "hey, we can actually shoot whilst riding these things!"
Well, you make a compelling argument. Pop it on a postcard and send it CB's way.
As for your anti-bike overkill methods, lots of towns in the UK recently have been hit by a spate of muggers and thieves riding dirt cheap scrambler bikes as they are small and nimble enough to get through pedestrian accessways, go off road etc. Police were really struggling to use convential pursuit methods and an officer I know confided to me that most forces were ignoring pursuit calls as they would end up endangering surrounding civilians. It took a while, but lots of the local forces have retrained officers to ride the same sort of bikes when needed and (around here at least) the news stories have subsided.
Gunships, missiles, snipers and mining your own roads! The obvious solutions are always the ones we miss. I'll head to the next PCC meeting and see if the local constabulary have room in their budget.
Well, you make a compelling argument. Pop it on a postcard and send it CB's way.
As for your anti-bike overkill methods, lots of towns in the UK recently have been hit by a spate of muggers and thieves riding dirt cheap scrambler bikes as they are small and nimble enough to get through pedestrian accessways, go off road etc. Police were really struggling to use convential pursuit methods and an officer I know confided to me that most forces were ignoring pursuit calls as they would end up endangering surrounding civilians. It took a while, but lots of the local forces have retrained officers to ride the same sort of bikes when needed and (around here at least) the news stories have subsided.
Considering the "terrorists" in question for Varuna have huge tails and dwell at depths in the ocean? I don't think the bikes are really going to be an issue.
Gunships, missiles, snipers and mining your own roads! The obvious solutions are always the ones we miss. I'll head to the next PCC meeting and see if the local constabulary have room in their budget.
If things are getting bad enough to the point that a group called the fricking "Snake-Eaters", specialized in counterterrorism operations and guerilla warfare are being called in...yeah, you'll have those things available and likely they'll be necessary.
Additionally, since you just flatout admitted on the Infinity forums that you're attempting to troll here: welcome to ignore.
Grey Templar wrote: Knights on Bikes makes sense. A noble knight needs a noble 'steed'.
Frankly I'm surprised its taken this long to get a knight on a bike.
Nobody's refuting Knights on Bikes.
I'm personally refuting Knights on Bikes as part of the Varunan Sectorial. This would have been a great surprise addition to Military Orders, not an elite counterterrorist group that previously has had no mention whatsoever of Knights or Military Orders forces in general.
Riquende wrote: And lastly but definitely not least, Knights of Montesa have motorbikes now. I'd assume they are losing Mech Deploy...
Do you have a source for this? It sounds ill-conceived for a Unit with Mech Deploy, which is their whole raison d'etre , so it is not likely that they will lose it. Will the Montesa get a lance as a ccw to joust with? Or the aforementioned jetski and special skill: aquatic terrain, since Varuna is a waterworld. ( So is Earth, BTW.)
Riquende wrote: And lastly but definitely not least, Knights of Montesa have motorbikes now. I'd assume they are losing Mech Deploy...
Do you have a source for this? It sounds ill-conceived for a Unit with Mech Deploy, which is their whole raison d'etre , so it is not likely that they will lose it. Will the Montesa get a lance as a ccw to joust with? Or the aforementioned jetski and special skill: aquatic terrain, since Varuna is a waterworld. ( So is Earth, BTW.)
There's an article in Game Trade Magazine that got posted up on Facebook today.
It talks about the fact that Knights of Montesa have been "reinvented" to have motorcycles. No idea why but it is. They also talk about how Kamau are effectively going to be the Veteran Kazaks of this list, with the ability to join any link team. Orcs are able to join Fusiliers. There's a named Orc character. There's some more but the picture is blurry and I don't feel like grabbing it to rehost when it would still be blurry.
It's pretty much confirmed, there's an article in the new ITS magazine where Guillermo talks about some of the things Varuna is getting, Infinity Facebook group had some really bad cell phone images of the article you could barely read, but it talks about knight-motorcycles.
I think HI on bikes is awesome, total bubblegum crisis/MOSPEADA in all the best ways
Kanluwen wrote: Knights on bikes are stupid and should be treated as such. This is supposed to be the frigging elite counterterrorism group and it's getting a Knight on Bike shoved in.
Not to mention that it's smacking of an attempt to reuse assets and unreleased items now. Montesa Knights have never been mentioned with Varuna and they've never been mentioned to have anything to do with bikes or other nonsense. There's a whole Equestrian Order which would have fit better.
This. This this this this this.
"You've heard of Elf on a Shelf, now get ready for..."
Riquende wrote: And lastly but definitely not least, Knights of Montesa have motorbikes now. I'd assume they are losing Mech Deploy...
Do you have a source for this? It sounds ill-conceived for a Unit with Mech Deploy, which is their whole raison d'etre , so it is not likely that they will lose it. Will the Montesa get a lance as a ccw to joust with? Or the aforementioned jetski and special skill: aquatic terrain, since Varuna is a waterworld. ( So is Earth, BTW.)
I think Montesas will have a choice between mech deployment and a motorbike.
Are there any pictures of Varuna's 'landscape'? I've always assumed it to be like Kamino in Star Wars, urban cities floating or on supports above the seas.
RPG book has good descriptions of each varuna island + the floating cities, the place has a decent amount of variation, mostly beaches with huge hotel chains, rainy port and farming cities, and huge seas of algae. The floating cities move around alot, the helots+ateks have one they run themselves.
Akuna bay- capital full of hotels and beaches, south is full of huge ports for dealing with cargo
deepwater- town with the space elevator, constantly covered in storms from elevators constant movement and varunas atmosphere
neo canberra- city that really loves sports
gurindam archapeligo- cold area not popular with tourists full of large mining towns damak and hujan. Pulau island is where they develop military tech, cutters are from here. syurga is a mining town in near constant rain
Hawaiki archipelago- known for food, fishing and low flat lands covered in crops and has large maglev networks, has an importan medical complex
kumari- known for pretty lanscapes, has a floating city that ran aground
Lemuria archipelago- on the equator covered in algae used in the factories, foster beach is here known for surfers and water sports, town is mostly tents. Students of Rylstone a huge biogenic research area blow of steam there, Rylstone works with Lhost tech, Wave port is known for medical stuff, and also has noahtown which is the planets major ship repair yard.
Id kinda prefer the knight bikes to be hover bikes, makes sense in the area (the water sports industry on varuna likely would support there being some companies making them) and would even be useful in jungle areas (just fly over the trees to get to places faster, or just be like the imperial scouts in star wars)
Id kinda prefer the knight bikes to be hover bikes, makes sense in the area (the water sports industry on varuna likely would support there being some companies making them)
Hover tch doesn't work over water, have you nevere watched Back tot he Future 2?
One thing you can say about CB this year, they finally figured out what they wanted to do for books and have got their act together to get 2 out this year.
Looks to be a late November to mid-December shipping date.
It'll contain all the background and relevant info on the remaining sectorials-- Tunguska, TAK, Vedic and Varuna. It will also explain the fate of the ASA-- obliterated in the third Paradiso offensive. It will have a nice LE mini.
It maybe Campaign Paradiso N3. Meaning that we'll get the updated campaign rules, including those for the Spec Ops.
The LE mini will not be Raoul Spector. Koni confirmed this.
I wonder if this book will have any CA stuff in it. the cover certainly implies that it does. it seems to early for Shasvastii. But it would be unfortunate to have a book focusing on the Paradiso conflict that doesn't include the largest force fighting there and the literal entire reason the conflict exists at all.
Or maybe the book being "new Paradiso" just means that it will be representing the campaign and Spec Ops rules from that book?
.Mikes. wrote: This, I believe, is the big N on the calendar which was supposed to really shake things up, so I can only assue it's a Caskuda sectorial.
Perfect Seeing the Current Climate of Acontecimento Very Funny Bro +1
jake wrote: I wonder if this book will have any CA stuff in it. the cover certainly implies that it does. it seems to early for Shasvastii. But it would be unfortunate to have a book focusing on the Paradiso conflict that doesn't include the largest force fighting there and the literal entire reason the conflict exists at all.
Or maybe the book being "new Paradiso" just means that it will be representing the campaign and Spec Ops rules from that book?
I know Carlos said that Tohaa and Shasvastii are being redone and Shasvastii are getting the same treatment the Morats did when they were the redone My guess is Shasvastii X Tohaa for that whole killing an entire Shashvastii Planet. That might be a Motive.
"I belong to the sequential brood 6/529. Along with my siblings, I was bred as a soldier and protector of my race. I was conditioned to be the perfect guardian of the Shaviish—the SpawnEmbryo reserve-hatchery—for the Aerota star cluster. When the Shaviish was destroyed by the Tohaa, I was left with no other motivation but vengeance" Hasht.
.Mikes. wrote: This, I believe, is the big N on the calendar which was supposed to really shake things up, so I can only assue it's a Caskuda sectorial.
Perfect Seeing the Current Climate of Acontecimento Very Funny Bro +1
jake wrote: I wonder if this book will have any CA stuff in it. the cover certainly implies that it does. it seems to early for Shasvastii. But it would be unfortunate to have a book focusing on the Paradiso conflict that doesn't include the largest force fighting there and the literal entire reason the conflict exists at all.
Or maybe the book being "new Paradiso" just means that it will be representing the campaign and Spec Ops rules from that book?
I know Carlos said that Tohaa and Shasvastii are being redone and Shasvastii are getting the same treatment the Morats did when they were the redone My guess is Shasvastii X Tohaa for that whole killing an entire Shashvastii Planet. That might be a Motive.
"I belong to the sequential brood 6/529. Along with my siblings, I was bred as a soldier and protector of my race. I was conditioned to be the perfect guardian of the Shaviish—the SpawnEmbryo reserve-hatchery—for the Aerota star cluster. When the Shaviish was destroyed by the Tohaa, I was left with no other motivation but vengeance" Hasht.
Who knows...
This seems too early for Shasvastii, or a Tohaa rework (assuming this book will be released late this year). We were told we'd be seeing both of those armies in the second half of next year. But who knows? maybe we'll get lists first and new models later? In the case of Tohaa the full (or nearly full) range already exists.
Shasvastii were slated to start concepting after GenCon. It's worth mentioning that chunks of the range aren't slated to be touched, such as the Sphinx and Noctifers.
Kanluwen wrote: Shasvastii were slated to start concepting after GenCon. It's worth mentioning that chunks of the range aren't slated to be touched, such as the Sphinx and Noctifers.
I think that's a really bad move not dropping a new Sphinx seeing as Raicho's had 2... 2 models... but what do I know...
New Sphinx is a clencher oh well
@jake I thought I heard Carlos say Shasvastii early 19' I can't see any other Sect getting done for combined... Alien Year
Aida Swanson is there w/ intent as is Drop/Mi Rules
With no insider info just guessing I'd say JSA level Overhaul with an Army box to boot early 19'
Kanluwen wrote: Shasvastii were slated to start concepting after GenCon. It's worth mentioning that chunks of the range aren't slated to be touched, such as the Sphinx and Noctifers.
I think that's a really bad move not dropping a new Sphinx seeing as Raicho's had 2... 2 models... but what do I know...
New Sphinx is a clencher oh well
@jake I thought I heard Carlos say Shasvastii early 19' I can't see any other Sect getting done for combined... Alien Year
Aida Swanson is there w/ intent as is Drop/Mi Rules
With no insider info just guessing I'd say JSA level Overhaul with an Army box to boot early 19'
But I'm just guessing
Maybe plans have changed, but I'd heard later 2019 several times, including a warning not to expect them too soon. But who knows?
I'm also expecting a huge overhaul, possibly the largest one we've ever seen. Although since they're nearly starting from scratch (unlike OSS, Tunguska, JSA, etc, which all already had several models) it may take a few years for Shasvastii to really get their full release.As far as I know only the Noctifers and the Sphinx are staying? That leaves 10 older units that will need models. It wouldn';t surprise me to see some o fthose heavily revised or even eliminated, but it also wouldn't surprise me to see some new stuff. I also think we will eventually see new versions of the Noctifrs and Sphinx, just not right away.
Honestly they could just touch up a couple of N2 rules outliers (Seed Embryo, Morpho-Scan) and make a couple of profile tweaks (Caliban and Cadmus *really* stand out) and that'd tide people over just fine until the full rework comes next year. A lot of shas units are already seriously good.
Thats true. The army isn't in a bad place. But I suspect that they're planning a larger set of changes than that, and that they'll want to wait till they're ready instead of releasing another "tide you over' update.
Micky wrote: Honestly they could just touch up a couple of N2 rules outliers (Seed Embryo, Morpho-Scan) and make a couple of profile tweaks (Caliban and Cadmus *really* stand out) and that'd tide people over just fine until the full rework comes next year. A lot of shas units are already seriously good.
They’re gonna need some link choices. Wouldn’t be surprised if batroids or some sort mechanized unit is introduced. They don’t have much in the way of order monkeys.
Yeah, I mean, they still need a top to bottom fundamental rework. But if they're not getting that now, and its waiting for a new line of miniatures, those two profiles I listed are the ones that most need it. Everything else (aside from Seed Soldiers) is more or less fine as is.
FRRM made their last stand in Planet Dawn alerting everybody that CA proper has infiltrated far deeper in the Human Sphere than anybody imagined possible.
3rd offensive is placed on Planet Paradiso were the Teutonic Order has its monastery studying alien artefacts and fighting the Combined army now we get a teaser of ASA been deployed on Paradiso.
3rd offensive is placed on Planet Paradiso were the Teutonic Order has its monastery studying alien artefacts and fighting the Combined army now we get a teaser of ASA been deployed on Paradiso.
Massive Teuton rework and deployment into the tweaked Paradiso-bound ASA confirmed!
And yet it's not on their social media. The first mention came from a poster on the forums claiming to have pulled it from Facebook, but since it direct links to the CB forums rather than the original spot...
And yet it's not on their social media. The first mention came from a poster on the forums claiming to have pulled it from Facebook, but since it direct links to the CB forums rather than the original spot...
The Svalarheima one I saw over Facebook yesterday but it was only shared by the Infinity Facebook page today.
And yet it's not on their social media. The first mention came from a poster on the forums claiming to have pulled it from Facebook, but since it direct links to the CB forums rather than the original spot...
The Svalarheima one I saw over Facebook yesterday but it was only shared by the Infinity Facebook page today.
Yes, but that's the thing. The Svalarheima one was posted(shared 9 hrs ago on FB 10hrs ago on Twitter). I still haven't seen the ORC(because the silhouette is an ORC, not a Bagh-Mari) one on their stuff.
I have only seen that post here and on the official forums. The official forums post was from someone who 'saved it from Facebook' and wasn't a WarCor.
If it's official, fine whatever. It's mislabeled--that's an ORC silhouette not a Bagh-Mari. And it hasn't officially been posted.
Kanluwen wrote: If it's official, fine whatever. It's mislabeled--that's an ORC silhouette not a Bagh-Mari. And it hasn't officially been posted.
It never mislabelled anything, the silhouette and the quotation are not linked.
Still waiting for you to actually link to their social media with that posting...the image posted in this thread is hosted off Dakka and the one on the official Infinity forums lost its URL when it got added...and wasn't posted by a WarCor anyways.
But hey, CB just posted this video on Twitter with the following label:
Take a closer look to the #CombinedArmy's new miniatures! #360view
They also posted:
Don't forget to Pre-order y'all!!
with a picture of the forthcoming book...which doesn't go up until the 15th.
Excuse me for not believing that what looks like poorly done fanart similar to the stuff we kept seeing during the various campaigns, which wasn't posted anywhere aside from the official forums by a non-WarCor saying they "got it off facebook" and being unable to produce the links to it was real.
Excuse me for not believing that what looks like poorly done fanart similar to the stuff we kept seeing during the various campaigns, which wasn't posted anywhere aside from the official forums by a non-WarCor saying they "got it off facebook" and being unable to produce the links to it was real.
Nor have I seen anything . However, Mods can be readily summoned by clicking the yellow triangle of conjuration if they are needed.
These spoilers really don't pique my interest. To the contrary, they bore me. What would, you ask, pique my interest? Details about the contents of the book... y'know, info on what sectorials are in it or whether it contains the revised Paradiso campaign or the SpecOp rules...
Red Harvest wrote: Nor have I seen anything . However, Mods can be readily summoned by clicking the yellow triangle of conjuration if they are needed.
These spoilers really don't pique my interest. To the contrary, they bore me. What would, you ask, pique my interest? Details about the contents of the book... y'know, info on what sectorials are in it or whether it contains the revised Paradiso campaign or the SpecOp rules...
I'm just saying their used to swiftly step in when the Kan dogpile started to get too tall. I've been bitchslapped for less, but really we all know we don't mind the banter.
As for the teasers it seems pretty clear we're getting at least Varuna, IA, reworked MO profiles to go with the new box, the demise of ASA.
I'm thinking other existing sectorials will see much needed attention as well.
As for a fully fledged campaign a la 2nd edition paradiso ... that was a messy & confusing affair. I loved the complexity and work that went into letting us play out narrative, but unless you had a large established group of players on hand, it was untenable for most.
It would better to go back to Paradiso with online summer campaigns & PDF releases as they have been doing.
Keep the books to fluff, art, & preliminary list releases.
Red Harvest wrote: Nor have I seen anything . However, Mods can be readily summoned by clicking the yellow triangle of conjuration if they are needed.
These spoilers really don't pique my interest. To the contrary, they bore me. What would, you ask, pique my interest? Details about the contents of the book... y'know, info on what sectorials are in it or whether it contains the revised Paradiso campaign or the SpecOp rules...
Agreed!
This GW-esque 'teaser crap' barely works for GW, and CB isn't GW.
(Yes nor should they be, nor do they want to be, etc. etc.)
More real actual details and previews would be a lot more helpful, and appreciated.
Might help them get back some of that goodwill they've been burning up as of late.
Kanluwen wrote: Reworked Military Orders profiles aren't likely to be in the book. Only one that probably is the dumb as heck Montesa Knight Biker(super kewl!).
I thought someone had pointed out that their 300 pt MO box totaled to more than 300 pts with the current profiles?
Really though, many of the existing sectorials need work, especially to offer more mixed fireteams.
Red Harvest wrote: Nor have I seen anything . However, Mods can be readily summoned by clicking the yellow triangle of conjuration if they are needed.
These spoilers really don't pique my interest. To the contrary, they bore me. What would, you ask, pique my interest? Details about the contents of the book... y'know, info on what sectorials are in it or whether it contains the revised Paradiso campaign or the SpecOp rules...
Agreed!
This GW-esque 'teaser crap' barely works for GW, and CB isn't GW.
(Yes nor should they be, nor do they want to be, etc. etc.)
More real actual details and previews would be a lot more helpful, and appreciated.
Might help them get back some of that goodwill they've been burning up as of late.
IIRCGW tended to tease releases and foster speculation months in advance only to have it melt into nothing.
This is a week before preorders go live & I haven't seen any new cryptic quotes here.
Aren't these all pulled from existing fluff?
Don't read into it so much. Folks tend to project their inner wish lists onto teasers and get all bent out of shape when CB's vagueries aren't exactly what they expected.
Kanluwen wrote: Reworked Military Orders profiles aren't likely to be in the book. Only one that probably is the dumb as heck Montesa Knight Biker(super kewl!).
I thought someone had pointed out that their 300 pt MO box totaled to more than 300 pts with the current profiles?
Really though, many of the existing sectorials need work, especially to offer more mixed fireteams.
Yeah, and the Corregidor 300 point box didn't have a valid LT option until they updated Army. They added a Boarding Shotgun LT profile for the Mobile Brigada via Army, it didn't go into Uprising.
Merovingian didn't have diddly for them in Uprising despite their being shelved around then, so don't expect anything for Shock Army.
We're getting profiles rejigged via Army as far as what's been said. That's it.
PsychoticStorm wrote: FRRM made their last stand in Planet Dawn alerting everybody that CA proper has infiltrated far deeper in the Human Sphere than anybody imagined possible.
3rd offensive is placed on Planet Paradiso were the Teutonic Order has its monastery studying alien artefacts and fighting the Combined army now we get a teaser of ASA been deployed on Paradiso.
Huh, the story given related to a platoon of FRRM coming upon some infiltrating CA, then having to hold a line against a much more numerous foe... But nowhere did it ever state or even give the impression that it was a proper "Last Stand"... Using this as the reason why FRRM is gone is really really weak.
PsychoticStorm wrote: FRRM made their last stand in Planet Dawn alerting everybody that CA proper has infiltrated far deeper in the Human Sphere than anybody imagined possible.
3rd offensive is placed on Planet Paradiso were the Teutonic Order has its monastery studying alien artefacts and fighting the Combined army now we get a teaser of ASA been deployed on Paradiso.
Huh, the story given related to a platoon of FRRM coming upon some infiltrating CA, then having to hold a line against a much more numerous foe... But nowhere did it ever state or even give the impression that it was a proper "Last Stand"... Using this as the reason why FRRM is gone is really really weak.
From what I understand FRRM isn't gone at all. Maybe I missed some news, but I my impression is that people are equating that loss to Combined Army as MRRF being totally defeated and deleted from the fiction. But I don't think thats the case. I doubt we'll see a lot of fiction about MRRF from now on, but I assume they still exist.
PsychoticStorm wrote: FRRM made their last stand in Planet Dawn alerting everybody that CA proper has infiltrated far deeper in the Human Sphere than anybody imagined possible.
3rd offensive is placed on Planet Paradiso were the Teutonic Order has its monastery studying alien artefacts and fighting the Combined army now we get a teaser of ASA been deployed on Paradiso.
Huh, the story given related to a platoon of FRRM coming upon some infiltrating CA, then having to hold a line against a much more numerous foe... But nowhere did it ever state or even give the impression that it was a proper "Last Stand"... Using this as the reason why FRRM is gone is really really weak.
From what I understand FRRM isn't gone at all. Maybe I missed some news, but I my impression is that people are equating that loss to Combined Army as MRRF being totally defeated and deleted from the fiction. But I don't think thats the case. I doubt we'll see a lot of fiction about MRRF from now on, but I assume they still exist.
I don't know if there's official fluff yet but the article on their website describes it as :
As were the Spartans at the Battle of Thermopylae, the brave soldiers of Merovingia will be remembered as heroes for their sacrifice.
Take that to mean what you will.
Unofficially Carlos has said they're gone, completely wiped out but he does tend to lean towards the dramatic side when it comes to this kind of thing.
I don't know if there's official fluff yet but the article on their website describes it as :
As were the Spartans at the Battle of Thermopylae, the brave soldiers of Merovingia will be remembered as heroes for their sacrifice.
Take that to mean what you will.
Unofficially Carlos has said they're gone, completely wiped out but he does tend to lean towards the dramatic side when it comes to this kind of thing.
Yeah, but here's the thing that happened after the battle of thermopykae....
The MRRF were being deployed to Novyy Cimmeria to establish another beachead in an effort to secure further territory in the Kurage conflict. It was the largest concentration of their forces since the Ariadnan Commercial Conflicts, flying in what they thought were relatively friendly skies aboard three ekranoplans. Their flightpath took them into range of a previously undiscovered OCF incursion, the first major EI incursion outside of the Paradiso system, who promptly opened up with their AA capabilities and shot down all three craft.
Two exploded in midair and the third executed a crash landing, with the surviving MRRF troops throwing up a defensive position while coming under assault from OCF ground forces.
Having lost more than two thirds of their operational fighting strength in a surprise attack and desperate defence, the MRRF have entered a rebuilding stage, hence their (temporary) withdrawl.
Yeah, it was just their frontline elite corps that was wiped out. Still plenty of reserves. They're just focused on training and rebuilding for the moment, and not out being deployed on special forces black ops.
Unfortunately that trailer doesn't say much, aside from mentioning Combined Army, Varuna, Tartary, OSS and Invincible army. That seems to imply a new CA sectorial, but it still seems to early for Shasvastii. Maybe a vanilla CA overhaul? It could certainly use it. The army is full of great stuff, but it often doesn't work well together.
jake wrote: Unfortunately that trailer doesn't say much, aside from mentioning Combined Army, Varuna, Tartary, OSS and Invincible army. That seems to imply a new CA sectorial, but it still seems to early for Shasvastii. Maybe a vanilla CA overhaul? It could certainly use it. The army is full of great stuff, but it often doesn't work well together.
That's a lot right there. Those 4 sectorials need some fluff.
I hope CB doesn't plan release books at this kind of pace every year. Just no way I would buy that many, their writing is tedious.
So the preorder mini is a Helot resistance fighter. Coincidently enough the preview of the PanO RPG book also came out and there's a large section on Helots.
I thought the line was, " The future's so bright I gotta wear shades" Turns out it is, "The future's so rocky I gotta wear combat heels."
With apologies to Timbuk3.
Invincible Army eh? LE mini is a WTF? Unless the Helot resistance joins with the EI , against the Humans. Then the CA just got a new unit. I still need more info before committing to pre-order. That LE mini is not a selling point for me.
Huh, kind of makes my "well, I'm certainly not going to pre-order any more Infinity books" threat kind of hollow when I'm legitimately not interested in the pre-order mini.
Oh well.
I guess waiting and seeing is made easier at the very least. Let's hope they don't bung up the Invincible Army like they did with most of the Uprising fluff.
Barzam wrote: Maybe the Helot Resistance will be a mercenary subfaction usable by any army except PanO? It would be nice for CA to have more mercenary options.
Barzam wrote: Maybe the Helot Resistance will be a mercenary subfaction usable by any army except PanO? It would be nice for CA to have more mercenary options.
Is it possible they are a tohaa uplift race?
Quite but I don't think there's any official fluff on it. With the next Tohaa army being the group that did the experiments on humans and Antipodes on Dawn as well as killing the wormhole to dawn causing the crash on Pardisio the Helot Resistance could be part of that faction which we know will have lots of aliens in it.
The Infinite wrote: The MRRF were being deployed to Novyy Cimmeria to establish another beachead in an effort to secure further territory in the Kurage conflict. It was the largest concentration of their forces since the Ariadnan Commercial Conflicts, flying in what they thought were relatively friendly skies aboard three ekranoplans. Their flightpath took them into range of a previously undiscovered OCF incursion, the first major EI incursion outside of the Paradiso system, who promptly opened up with their AA capabilities and shot down all three craft.
Two exploded in midair and the third executed a crash landing, with the surviving MRRF troops throwing up a defensive position while coming under assault from OCF ground forces.
Having lost more than two thirds of their operational fighting strength in a surprise attack and desperate defence, the MRRF have entered a rebuilding stage, hence their (temporary) withdrawl.
So CB is going to try and tell me that between the Chasseurs (of which there's at least 3 other regiments), the Moblots, the Paracommandos, the Mirage teams, the Zouaves and the Briscards, the French could not fill more than 3 planes???
It was just dumb, lacked any finesse, and the only way that us FRRM players swallowed the pill so easily was because this coincided with CB granting us things we needed 3 years ago (and mostly Infinity fans aren't in it for the fluff).
Corvus Belli's number for Ariadna are WAAAAAAYYYYYY off being realistic.
Realistically, Ariadna should have hundreds of millions to maybe a little over a billion population, instead of the 8.5 million CB gives. Otherwise there is no way they could maintain their current level of technology. 3 planes would in no way wipe out the MRRF, which is the main military force of an entire faction on Dawn. Even if they are the smallest force.
Barzam wrote: Maybe the Helot Resistance will be a mercenary subfaction usable by any army except PanO? It would be nice for CA to have more mercenary options.
Is it possible they are a tohaa uplift race?
Its always possible, but most likely not. The places where the Tohaa have been meddling usually have some hinting at it. Varuna has no mentions of Tohaa presence that I can find even in the RPG material.
Grey Templar wrote: Corvus Belli's number for Ariadna are WAAAAAAYYYYYY off being realistic.
Realistically, Ariadna should have hundreds of millions to maybe a little over a billion population, instead of the 8.5 million CB gives. Otherwise there is no way they could maintain their current level of technology. 3 planes would in no way wipe out the MRRF, which is the main military force of an entire faction on Dawn. Even if they are the smallest force.
Barzam wrote: Maybe the Helot Resistance will be a mercenary subfaction usable by any army except PanO? It would be nice for CA to have more mercenary options.
Is it possible they are a tohaa uplift race?
Its always possible, but most likely not. The places where the Tohaa have been meddling usually have some hinting at it. Varuna has no mentions of Tohaa presence that I can find even in the RPG material.
The whole thing didnt make any sense. The French deployed enough troops that wiping them all out would leave them no fighting capabilities whatsoever (which is just moronic, really), but the CA infiltration team still outnumbered them?
And once the whole of Ariadna is made aware that CA is on Dawn, in numbers large enough to wipe out the French, why the frak does anyone cares about Kurage? Including the Japs?
Logically, the whole of the Human Sphere would have paused, celebrated the martyrdom of the Frenchies, and united as a whole to defeat the new CA push. Afterall, the French did just manage to do singlehandedly what the other factions couldnt on Paradiso ; force the CA to retreat from a planet.
Barzam wrote: Maybe the Helot Resistance will be a mercenary subfaction usable by any army except PanO? It would be nice for CA to have more mercenary options.
Is it possible they are a tohaa uplift race?
Its always possible, but most likely not. The places where the Tohaa have been meddling usually have some hinting at it. Varuna has no mentions of Tohaa presence that I can find even in the RPG material.
Just because it's not in the RPG doesn't mean much TBH. While Gutier has stated he wants the RPG to be the most up to date on fluff the process of creating the RPG has shown that he had very little of the fluff actually solidified which is part of the long delay for the original core book. You can also look at the amount of new fluff in the PanO and Haqq books compared to the first, Aridna which was pretty poor, as he's gotten farther along developing things. Helots could be a plot point they want to save for later on, haven't fully developed so we won't see mention of it till the Tohaa book or, in the case of JSA, decide to change at the last minute and Modiphius doesn't find out until the public announcing like we all did. Though I doubt if they're not in the Trimultive (sp?) Tohaa army then they probably aren't -- but who knows until it's official one way or the other.
Grey Templar wrote: Corvus Belli's number for Ariadna are WAAAAAAYYYYYY off being realistic.
Realistically, Ariadna should have hundreds of millions to maybe a little over a billion population, instead of the 8.5 million CB gives. Otherwise there is no way they could maintain their current level of technology. 3 planes would in no way wipe out the MRRF, which is the main military force of an entire faction on Dawn. Even if they are the smallest force.
The whole thing didnt make any sense. The French deployed enough troops that wiping them all out would leave them no fighting capabilities whatsoever (which is just moronic, really), but the CA infiltration team still outnumbered them?
And once the whole of Ariadna is made aware that CA is on Dawn, in numbers large enough to wipe out the French, why the frak does anyone cares about Kurage? Including the Japs?
Logically, the whole of the Human Sphere would have paused, celebrated the martyrdom of the Frenchies, and united as a whole to defeat the new CA push. Afterall, the French did just manage to do singlehandedly what the other factions couldnt on Paradiso ; force the CA to retreat from a planet.
I thought Ariadna had it's tech level due to trading of Tesnium (or however it's spelled) and it's artificially high due to that? Or are you talking about the near modern earth level of tech?
As for the 3 planes, aren't infinity armies only supposed to be the special forces only and not the main armies? You could kind of see a small force like MRRF being only a few hundred since they're urban warfare which isn't something Ariadna has a lot of. Still 3 plains seams small but I guess we have no idea how many troops those could transport.
I doubt Ariadna would raise to such population levels, Ariana was the first of the two ships the one that carried the infrastructure, Aurora was the ship carrying the main settlers force, in 100 something years, with all the hardships hostile Antipodes and the internal conflict a few million population is about right if not exceeding expectations, especially if the governments of Dawn have not "enforced" some form of breeding program to rapidly expand the population, something that can be complicated by lack of infrastructure to support a big population, since the main settlers force was missing and the planet proved to be more hostile than expected, Agriculture and livestock breeding expansion necessary to sustain an expanding population may be hit.
Now I understand the criticism and some things could have been better explained, the 3 ekranoplanes were huge, if they were not shot down by a vastly technologically superior force, that should not be there, they would vastly outnumber the combined forces, the survivors of three burning crash landings is another story.
While it seems odd at first to fly fast and without much precaution over the area, CA was not supposed to be in any significant numbers anywhere outside the Paradiso system and as far as the human sphere is concerned the nanite clouds infesting the region make any form of AA impossible and nanite clouds have not been used on Paradiso to know if CA forces are affected or not by such technology.
Now from what I know a force sustaining 1/3rd of its forces as casualties is deemed unfit for service and must be either disbanded or be extensively reinforced and retrained before it is deemed fit for duty, FRRM does not represent the entirety of Merovigian forces, but the pinnacle of the Merovigian forces, there are undoubtedly some small formations of FRRM still active out there and the Merovigian armed forces scattered around the Ariadna armed forces were not in the incident, but the well trained work close together units that are the core of FRRM have sustained enouph casualties to force the concept of FRRM to be in restructuring.
Now, the incident is both covered up (candy cloud) and downplayed because Ariadnas believe, probably rightfully so, that the big two will use it as an excuse to deploy significant military assets on the planet, not necessarily to e used against the CA forces and the CA incursion while proven devastating in an ambush does not seem to be uncontainable so far.
Grey Templar wrote: Corvus Belli's number for Ariadna are WAAAAAAYYYYYY off being realistic.
Realistically, Ariadna should have hundreds of millions to maybe a little over a billion population, instead of the 8.5 million CB gives. Otherwise there is no way they could maintain their current level of technology. 3 planes would in no way wipe out the MRRF, which is the main military force of an entire faction on Dawn. Even if they are the smallest force.
Barzam wrote: Maybe the Helot Resistance will be a mercenary subfaction usable by any army except PanO? It would be nice for CA to have more mercenary options.
Is it possible they are a tohaa uplift race?
Its always possible, but most likely not. The places where the Tohaa have been meddling usually have some hinting at it. Varuna has no mentions of Tohaa presence that I can find even in the RPG material.
The Helots explicitly are Tohaa uplifts.
The Tohaa colony Oomnya was evacuated (largely because of the failure of the Helot uplift to produce results) and the Digestor transported off world. That digestor was the one intercepted by the Triumvirate and left on Paradiso as a snare for the CA/human conflict.
jake wrote: Unfortunately that trailer doesn't say much, aside from mentioning Combined Army, Varuna, Tartary, OSS and Invincible army. That seems to imply a new CA sectorial, but it still seems to early for Shasvastii. Maybe a vanilla CA overhaul? It could certainly use it. The army is full of great stuff, but it often doesn't work well together.
There are some rumours that we will see some MAF update with this book and the same source said that MO will be updated and CB already confirmed MO update.
So you can hope . Also one of the teaser spoke about Ko Dali, so maybe she will see some changes too.
Tommorow we will have more information about Third offensive content.
Grey Templar wrote: Corvus Belli's number for Ariadna are WAAAAAAYYYYYY off being realistic.
Realistically, Ariadna should have hundreds of millions to maybe a little over a billion population, instead of the 8.5 million CB gives. Otherwise there is no way they could maintain their current level of technology. 3 planes would in no way wipe out the MRRF, which is the main military force of an entire faction on Dawn. Even if they are the smallest force.
Ignoring all the stuff about population (because we've had that argument before), Ekranoplans are huge. In terms of aircraft rather than GEVs, it's more like a fleet of 30-40 military transports in capacity.
Grey Templar wrote: Corvus Belli's number for Ariadna are WAAAAAAYYYYYY off being realistic.
Realistically, Ariadna should have hundreds of millions to maybe a little over a billion population, instead of the 8.5 million CB gives. Otherwise there is no way they could maintain their current level of technology. 3 planes would in no way wipe out the MRRF, which is the main military force of an entire faction on Dawn. Even if they are the smallest force.
Ignoring all the stuff about population (because we've had that argument before), Ekranoplans are huge. In terms of aircraft rather than GEVs, it's more like a fleet of 30-40 military transports in capacity.
But why would any armed wing transport enough of their troops in a single shot that a crash would make that wing inoperational? Yes, training time may be required, which is why you train constantly, to have a pool of recruits at all time. For comparison, Jamaica has a 2.4 million population, an armed force of about 3000 personnel, but an available pool of immediatly fit for service individuals in the 50 000s. And obviously, Jamaica doesnt have Antipodes, isnt nearly has hostile has Dawn, and doesnt train citizenry militia and outfit them with grenade launchers and HMGs. Merovingia should have been much better prepared for something like this.
Even if we go by the idea that the FRRM represents only a small contingent of the Merovigian army, again, the Jamaican Navy counts less than 250 personnel and 3 or 4 ships. Do you really think Jamaica will throw its hands in the air and say "well, looks like we wont have any Navy for the next 10 years!" If one of those boats hit a rock and sinks?
Infinity writing just...isn't very good. I didn't really notice until Uprising as I tend to skim read game book background unless something really grabs me.
Still love the game and the feel of the universe for the most part, but digging in to specific elements of the story is never going to go well.
That's sarcasm. I notice you didn't say crap about the fact they're trying to flog the Noctifers as new though.
I don't reply to you and your hate messages simply because you're so out of line it's not funny, it's actually very sad.
You burn too much energy hating this game while there could be so many positive things to do instead.
I don't see the point to engage you or your anger, I was just told by some friends to come and look at a trainwreck.
plastictrees wrote: Infinity writing just...isn't very good. I didn't really notice until Uprising as I tend to skim read game book background unless something really grabs me.
Still love the game and the feel of the universe for the most part, but digging in to specific elements of the story is never going to go well.
Agreed, the more you get into the fluff, the worse it becomes, unfortunately.
Agreed, the more you get into the fluff, the worse it becomes, unfortunately.
Welcome to sci fi. It requires some credulity. All agreed? Good, now let's move back to any news.
Just because you are fine with mediocre writing and storytelling doesn't mean we have to be too by default. This story could have easily been completely "non sci-fi", removed all the mentions of aliens, nanoclouds, akroplanes and etc. This could have been a WWII story, containing exactly the same elements, toward the same end, and it would still have been completely moronic.
And it wasn't necessary. The only thing that matters in the Scenario Pack was the last page with the updated Sectorial. Just come out honestly, "look at the stats, FRRM doesn't sell well by a good margin, so we won't support it anymore, here's an updated army list for ya'll frenchie hipsters".
Otherwise you might have well just have a scenario pack about Margot having to bring Duroc behind the woodshed because he wet the sofa again.
Agreed, the more you get into the fluff, the worse it becomes, unfortunately.
Welcome to sci fi. It requires some credulity. All agreed? Good, now let's move back to any news.
Nah, that’s a weak generalization. It’s not unreasonable to point out that Infinity suffers from poor writing, as if no one has ever been able to write well. There’s plenty of sci-fi written by people who enjoy researching historical or contemporary counterparts to extrapolate how future generations might function... especially with a universe like Infinity’s, where the time jump isn’t that extreme.
If you’re going to take the time and effort to flesh out the universe, the end result should enhance the experience, not distract from it.
Nah, that’s a weak generalization. It’s not unreasonable to point out that Infinity suffers from poor writing, as if no one has ever been able to write well. There’s plenty of sci-fi written by people who enjoy researching historical or contemporary counterparts to extrapolate how future generations might function... especially with a universe like Infinity’s, where the time jump isn’t that extreme.
Oh there's plenty of great sci fi grounded in real science.
But not in games.
If accepted laws of how the universe worked were applied, no sf game wouldn't exist.
Talking about fluff and lore is fun - even when people take a sideswipe at your standards - but please take it elsewhere. This thead is for the news, not about getting judgemental over how a game doesn't suite someone's particular standards on literature.
Grey Templar wrote: Corvus Belli's number for Ariadna are WAAAAAAYYYYYY off being realistic.
Realistically, Ariadna should have hundreds of millions to maybe a little over a billion population, instead of the 8.5 million CB gives. Otherwise there is no way they could maintain their current level of technology. 3 planes would in no way wipe out the MRRF, which is the main military force of an entire faction on Dawn. Even if they are the smallest force.
Ignoring all the stuff about population (because we've had that argument before), Ekranoplans are huge. In terms of aircraft rather than GEVs, it's more like a fleet of 30-40 military transports in capacity.
But why would any armed wing transport enough of their troops in a single shot that a crash would make that wing inoperational? Yes, training time may be required, which is why you train constantly, to have a pool of recruits at all time. For comparison, Jamaica has a 2.4 million population, an armed force of about 3000 personnel, but an available pool of immediatly fit for service individuals in the 50 000s. And obviously, Jamaica doesnt have Antipodes, isnt nearly has hostile has Dawn, and doesnt train citizenry militia and outfit them with grenade launchers and HMGs. Merovingia should have been much better prepared for something like this.
Even if we go by the idea that the FRRM represents only a small contingent of the Merovigian army, again, the Jamaican Navy counts less than 250 personnel and 3 or 4 ships. Do you really think Jamaica will throw its hands in the air and say "well, looks like we wont have any Navy for the next 10 years!" If one of those boats hit a rock and sinks?
No. But if Jamaica had just lost a significant portion of their small military and were under constant threat form local wildlife, foreign encroachment and alien Infiltrators they probably would send a significant amount of their remaining troops off to join multi-national offensives on other planets.
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plastictrees wrote: Infinity writing just...isn't very good. I didn't really notice until Uprising as I tend to skim read game book background unless something really grabs me.
Still love the game and the feel of the universe for the most part, but digging in to specific elements of the story is never going to go well.
I disagree. Infinity's writing has had some problems, but its mostly been just fine. the problem here is that the fiction of Infinity is meant to be a collection of anecdotes, quotes, overviews and statements that suggest a larger universe, not a point by point narrative that meticulously details every single event of the Infinity universe. But fans keep trying to read it that way, and think that missing information indicates plot holes and errors. I think its better to think of Infinity's fiction as an incomplete collection of letters, newscasts, opinions and reports (which is explicitly how its always been presented) and not as a complete and meticulous history.
jake wrote: Unfortunately that trailer doesn't say much, aside from mentioning Combined Army, Varuna, Tartary, OSS and Invincible army. That seems to imply a new CA sectorial, but it still seems to early for Shasvastii. Maybe a vanilla CA overhaul? It could certainly use it. The army is full of great stuff, but it often doesn't work well together.
There are some rumours that we will see some MAF update with this book and the same source said that MO will be updated and CB already confirmed MO update.
So you can hope . Also one of the teaser spoke about Ko Dali, so maybe she will see some changes too.
Tommorow we will have more information about Third offensive content.
That would make me really happy. I was pretty disappointed with the MAF changes in HS, and have been hoping for some updates ever since. At the time Carlos said that they weren't sure if they'd ever do any more work on MAF, but if they did it would be a long way off.I guess this qualifies.
Kovnik Obama wrote: And it wasn't necessary. The only thing that matters in the Scenario Pack was the last page with the updated Sectorial. Just come out honestly, "look at the stats, FRRM doesn't sell well by a good margin, so we won't support it anymore, here's an updated army list for ya'll frenchie hipsters".
It was never about sales numbers and I really do not understand why people still assume FRRM is shelved forever.
Kovnik Obama wrote: And it wasn't necessary. The only thing that matters in the Scenario Pack was the last page with the updated Sectorial. Just come out honestly, "look at the stats, FRRM doesn't sell well by a good margin, so we won't support it anymore, here's an updated army list for ya'll frenchie hipsters".
It was never about sales numbers and I really do not understand why people still assume FRRM is shelved forever.
The 3 sectorials that were shelved were the 3 less sold ones, and by a good margin. FRRM was about 1/3 as popular as the average sectorials.
Like an idiot, I started Bakunin last month, just before checking the stats, and after Aconcetimento its the least sold one. At least they came out with Taskmasters and a new Zoe & Pi-well sculpt recently, so its probably safer. Except they also both became available to StarCo, which seems to be taking some of the design space of Bakunin.
As to why I assume FRRM to be permashelved, its because its hard to see what could be done down the line that wouldnt have been entirely possible to do right now. If it was really just an SKU problem, then retire the Para-commandos, the Metros and some other dated sculpts from the Ariadna range. FRRM was conceptually bloated despite having the least amount of available profiles, because they were all waaaaay too similar. Retire some of their more clunky profiles, and give them access to some other, modified Ariadnese profiles, like the Blackjack and the Mavericks. Less SKUs, anyone who really wanted a Paracommando or Metros already have 5 of them, and they get to redefine and modernise the FRRM. But thats not a cost cutting option, not in comparison to just shelving the least popular faction.
And given that Ariadna just had 2 sectorials done, I doubt we are not at the complete bottom of the rotation. To me, no FRRM for the next 12 years is pretty much exactly the same as no FRRM at all anymore....
Neither Zoe or Taskmasters are available to Starco, CB has stated all ranges are going to be in a rolling production, stopped for some time with some tweaks and an update and then reintroduced down the line with a proper update, its the same for FRRM and the same for Acontecimento.
I am not sure where you get sales numbers, if you mistake sales numbers with sectorials been played in ITS, it is not always the same.
My understanding is the MRRF and ASA armies will continue to be playable, and the rules will stay in Army and on the site. Right? its just the models that are going away? That means that anyone who wants to play them still can, even if they have to proxy models or hunt down out of print models (which often isn't very hard, but of course will get harder with time).
I think it remains to be seen whether either army will come back. As was already mentioned, CB said that they will be on rotation and may (will?) come back in the future,a nd that this will happen to other models as well. But we all know plans change, and even if thats what CB plans right now, that might change in a year or two. But I think its equally possible that we could see either of these ranges (or any other ranges that go into "rotation" return in the following ways:
- Re-released models with an updated army list (ASA is a great candidate for this at some point in the future).
- An updated range with an updated army list (MRRF is an ideal candidate).
- Re-released models returning for a limited amount of time. CB can reprint models whenever they want, making it easy to offer an army pack, a bundle deal or simply making the range available again for a season or while supplies last.
If armies really do start to go on "rotation", then the third option makes a lot of sense. Having a constant rotation of armies that will only be available while supplies last isn't so bad, especially if you know that if you miss them this time you can get them next time they come around.
Grey Templar wrote: Corvus Belli's number for Ariadna are WAAAAAAYYYYYY off being realistic.
Realistically, Ariadna should have hundreds of millions to maybe a little over a billion population, instead of the 8.5 million CB gives. Otherwise there is no way they could maintain their current level of technology. 3 planes would in no way wipe out the MRRF, which is the main military force of an entire faction on Dawn. Even if they are the smallest force.
Barzam wrote: Maybe the Helot Resistance will be a mercenary subfaction usable by any army except PanO? It would be nice for CA to have more mercenary options.
Is it possible they are a tohaa uplift race?
Its always possible, but most likely not. The places where the Tohaa have been meddling usually have some hinting at it. Varuna has no mentions of Tohaa presence that I can find even in the RPG material.
The Helots explicitly are Tohaa uplifts.
The Tohaa colony Oomnya was evacuated (largely because of the failure of the Helot uplift to produce results) and the Digestor transported off world. That digestor was the one intercepted by the Triumvirate and left on Paradiso as a snare for the CA/human conflict.
I figured; They basically MUST be. The general rule in infinity has always been that all the alien races are either part of or the result of Tohaa or CA influence.
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PsychoticStorm wrote: I doubt Ariadna would raise to such population levels, Ariana was the first of the two ships the one that carried the infrastructure, Aurora was the ship carrying the main settlers force, in 100 something years, with all the hardships hostile Antipodes and the internal conflict a few million population is about right if not exceeding expectations, especially if the governments of Dawn have not "enforced" some form of breeding program to rapidly expand the population, something that can be complicated by lack of infrastructure to support a big population, since the main settlers force was missing and the planet proved to be more hostile than expected, Agriculture and livestock breeding expansion necessary to sustain an expanding population may be hit.
Now I understand the criticism and some things could have been better explained, the 3 ekranoplanes were huge, if they were not shot down by a vastly technologically superior force, that should not be there, they would vastly outnumber the combined forces, the survivors of three burning crash landings is another story.
While it seems odd at first to fly fast and without much precaution over the area, CA was not supposed to be in any significant numbers anywhere outside the Paradiso system and as far as the human sphere is concerned the nanite clouds infesting the region make any form of AA impossible and nanite clouds have not been used on Paradiso to know if CA forces are affected or not by such technology.
Now from what I know a force sustaining 1/3rd of its forces as casualties is deemed unfit for service and must be either disbanded or be extensively reinforced and retrained before it is deemed fit for duty, FRRM does not represent the entirety of Merovigian forces, but the pinnacle of the Merovigian forces, there are undoubtedly some small formations of FRRM still active out there and the Merovigian armed forces scattered around the Ariadna armed forces were not in the incident, but the well trained work close together units that are the core of FRRM have sustained enouph casualties to force the concept of FRRM to be in restructuring.
Now, the incident is both covered up (candy cloud) and downplayed because Ariadnas believe, probably rightfully so, that the big two will use it as an excuse to deploy significant military assets on the planet, not necessarily to e used against the CA forces and the CA incursion while proven devastating in an ambush does not seem to be uncontainable so far.
Hope this helps.
Correct. We're not talking about GW Space Marines here
Sustaining significant casualties like 1/3 of their total numbers in practical terms means their wiped out for most real military outfits.
Grey Templar wrote: Corvus Belli's number for Ariadna are WAAAAAAYYYYYY off being realistic.
Realistically, Ariadna should have hundreds of millions to maybe a little over a billion population, instead of the 8.5 million CB gives. Otherwise there is no way they could maintain their current level of technology. 3 planes would in no way wipe out the MRRF, which is the main military force of an entire faction on Dawn. Even if they are the smallest force.
Ignoring all the stuff about population (because we've had that argument before), Ekranoplans are huge. In terms of aircraft rather than GEVs, it's more like a fleet of 30-40 military transports in capacity.
But why would any armed wing transport enough of their troops in a single shot that a crash would make that wing inoperational? Yes, training time may be required, which is why you train constantly, to have a pool of recruits at all time. For comparison, Jamaica has a 2.4 million population, an armed force of about 3000 personnel, but an available pool of immediatly fit for service individuals in the 50 000s. And obviously, Jamaica doesnt have Antipodes, isnt nearly has hostile has Dawn, and doesnt train citizenry militia and outfit them with grenade launchers and HMGs. Merovingia should have been much better prepared for something like this.
Even if we go by the idea that the FRRM represents only a small contingent of the Merovigian army, again, the Jamaican Navy counts less than 250 personnel and 3 or 4 ships. Do you really think Jamaica will throw its hands in the air and say "well, looks like we wont have any Navy for the next 10 years!" If one of those boats hit a rock and sinks?
As said above. No, they wouldnt throw their hands up, stop trying, & curse God and die. But they also wouldnt be committing forces to fly to the other bloody side of the galaxy.
It's not great, but it makes enough sense.
I don't see why everyone is so up in arms over this. MRRF was already in a bad place & needed an overhaul that CB was clearly not willing to undergo.
As said above. No, they wouldnt throw their hands up, stop trying, & curse God and die. But they also wouldnt be committing forces to fly to the other bloody side of the galaxy. It's not great, but it makes enough sense.
I don't see why everyone is so up in arms over this. MRRF was already in a bad place & needed an overhaul that CB was clearly not willing to undergo.
Then just say that. Don't make up nonsense to try to justify it.
The lore used to justify this made no sense in the first place. "Random starlet turned reporter finds evidence of potential massive incursion by Onyx Contact Force, forces get sent to rescue her. Nothing goes wrong"(USARF v. OCF Dire Foes set is what kicks the events off) "Scouts then get sent in, scouts being what turns out to be an excessive amount of light infantry based forces committed in giant honking transports over unsecured terrain potentially infested with a superior outfitted hostile alien force".
Yeah, Merovingia specializes in "rapid response"...they also specialize(well, specialized) in not being idiots. Their training regimen is what created the Ariadnan Expeditionary Force for Paradiso, the Scots-Guard, and they more or less provided security for the road systems on Dawn.
Great to see another faction doing something completely out of character to justify some of the sillier lore plots they make up as part of sales.
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The Infinite wrote: Is that a new Line Kazak box as well, or did I miss that release?
It's new. It hadn't come out yet. We've had renders for it, Beyond Coldfront, and the Dakinis box for awhile.
Not incentive enough to worry about or pre-order for!
The model itself is good and the profile puts a bullet in the head of the argument that "power creep isn't a thing in Infinity!".
The sad part is that it looks like this is going to be one of the units coming out for the Triumvirate Sectorial that's been rumored and now a profile is locked as a preorder bonus.
The lore used to justify this made no sense in the first place.
"Random starlet turned reporter finds evidence of potential massive incursion by Onyx Contact Force, forces get sent to rescue her. Nothing goes wrong"(USARF v. OCF Dire Foes set is what kicks the events off)
"Scouts then get sent in, scouts being what turns out to be an excessive amount of light infantry based forces committed in giant honking transports over unsecured terrain potentially infested with a superior outfitted hostile alien force".
Yeah, Merovingia specializes in "rapid response"...they also specialize(well, specialized) in not being idiots. Their training regimen is what created the Ariadnan Expeditionary Force for Paradiso, the Scots-Guard, and they more or less provided security for the road systems on Dawn.
Great to see another faction doing something completely out of character to justify some of the sillier lore plots they make up as part of sales.
Candy's rescue didn't indicate any form of permanent base on Dawn or more importantly on Novvy Chimeria, were the group was going for, to do what it is supposed to do Rapid Response to the Kurage Crisis.
I see you gloss over that of course Kazaks are the controllers of Aridanas extra-system politics and they are the leaders of the expeditionary force, of course they would have Kazak formations with them on Paradiso.
Knight wrote: Can someone give me TL, DR, really wish there'd be English subs...
Basically:
Tikbalangs get Duo
Orcs get Core, Haris and AVA4.
Rao is Wildcard for Link purposes
Regulars get Core+Specials.
Bagh-Mari can link with Machinists.
Montesa Knights are dead as it stands. They're completely revamped into their Biker format, which "you'll have to read Third Offensive to find out why!"(spoiler: it'll be a stupid reason. ). Bikers are in MO, VIRD, and SAA.
Narrative scenarios for SAA on Paradiso
New Montessa rework, biker Knights actually looks to be a big improvement (honestly, I only ever saw the LGL version in games) including a specialist (take a guess if they're WIP 12 or 13, both are listed). Boost to CC and MA2, combined with CH:Mimetism and a DACCW, lose Assault (they've got a bike) and BS, but gain ARM.
Rao is a wildcard for fireteams.
Bagh Mari can bring Machinists in their fireteams.
Tikbalang can Duo.
The Montessa Knights you have can still stand-in for dismounted Knights. Chances are, we're going to get a pack similar to Kum/Aragoto/etc with just two bikes in a box and no dismounted figure.
It's just going to be a bit weird considering the modern SAA starter comes with a Knight with Spitfire. You can disguise the old mini's Combi Rifle as a MULTI Rifle, but neither has a Boarding Shotgun or anything resembling it right now.
Biker Knights somewhat make sense for Aconticimento's Terrain. Seems good. It fills a SE Asia WWII and Knight-on-Horse theme splendidly. I really hope the model will be an ATV.
I found gaining ARM to go up to 4 a bit surprising. I assumed they were going to be in slimmed down armour to make a bike more believable, but it could well be a quad or something similar.
Bostria said that this book will contain reworked SEF fluff, but for the updated sectorial we will need to wait, because it will be released the next year.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Neither Zoe or Taskmasters are available to Starco, CB has stated all ranges are going to be in a rolling production, stopped for some time with some tweaks and an update and then reintroduced down the line with a proper update, its the same for FRRM and the same for Acontecimento.
I am not sure where you get sales numbers, if you mistake sales numbers with sectorials been played in ITS, it is not always the same.
Who said anything about 12 years by the way?
Sorry, derped there, I truly have no clue why I thought Zoe & Pi-Well were also on the StarCo roster.
Sales numbers comes from showing the ITS stats to the owner of the biggest Infinity carrying store in the city, and second in the country. Of course that isnt scientific, I never claimed I had professional grade info on the subject, but he agreed it matched the sales he did on the product.
And yes ITS turnings arent the same as sales number, but it isnt far either. You cant bring a Sectorial in that you havent bought or exchanged. FRRM was consistently 1/3 of the others, and yes that might be because it wasnt super competitive, but many players go to events or play the season with less than competitive options at all times. FRRM wasnt broken beyond repair as to releguate us to Sister of Battle or Bretonnian status based on the rules alone. We were there because there was no fan base built and maintained over the time, I truly beleive 90% of FRRM players were in it for the Chasseur and Loup-Garou sculpts.
The "new and Improved" ASA. Actually, it looks intriguing.
We'll need to see what 'special' means for some of these fireteams. Machinists in a fireteam with regulars? Rao can link with any core fireteam ?
The book sounds like it is much better, more useful than the Uprising book. And like it is the 'Acheron Falls' book.
Machinists are with Bagh-Mari from what was said. This book sounds less like "Acheron Falls" and more "Paradiso Mark 2--now featuring no campaign rules!".
Screenshot of the book's contents:
Looks like there will be a revised Paradiso campaign included, and Varuna, TAK, Shasvastii and the Invincible Army. I thought these latter two were for next year. Or is it just background, with the actual ( and most important part) lists coming Soon™?
Acheron Falls was supposed to finish the Sectorials, IIRC. It looks like this is part 1 of that. Part 2 will have Ramah and Svalarheim and White Banner and maybe whatever else is pending ( Khanate, Truimvirate ( as if) and that's it for sectorials?)
I would assume Kan is correct as Carlos made no mention of a campaign in his video and you think that would be a talking point for them. While CB does have some marketing blunders once they announce something they try to put out a good amount of info about it. They still do spec ops so you figure they want to try and do a new campaign system eventually. But if they keep up 2 books a year that may give them plenty of space to add an updated version in.
Also with the release schedule Red Harvest's old complaint about the game having too much stuff\rules is something that's just going to keep getting worse.
Weird to hear bad things about Bakkunin. It feels like the only Nomad sectorial that isn't vastly outshone by vanilla. It's pretty fully featured and has some of the best fireteam options. It also had its model line basically completely redone in the last 18 months or so.
Nothing really for me in this book but I've got a number of friends with plenty to be excited about.
BrotherGecko wrote: So does the book offer anything new for CA outside of fluff?
There’s at least one update to MAF (Suryats getting a rule that gives them an extra irregular order). I’d assume there’ll be more tweaks to MAF.
I can't be the only one that thinks Suryats are a poor for this rule? Considering that you'll rarely take them solo (although I guess it will help in vanilla). I'd much rather have it on Sogarats.Or Zerats. Or Daturazi. Or Raicho. Or solo Oznats. Or Yaogats.
Monkeysloth wrote: I would assume Kan is correct as Carlos made no mention of a campaign in his video and you think that would be a talking point for them. While CB does have some marketing blunders once they announce something they try to put out a good amount of info about it. They still do spec ops so you figure they want to try and do a new campaign system eventually. But if they keep up 2 books a year that may give them plenty of space to add an updated version in.
Also with the release schedule Red Harvest's old complaint about the game having too much stuff\rules is something that's just going to keep getting worse.
Their summer campaign events are obviously going to take the place of the old fashioned campaign in a book model.
The 2nd edition Paradiso campaign was awfully clunky and hard to play through without a healthy community. A static published campaign laid out in dead tree media is so 20th century.
He said in the video they will be doing more online events to continue shaping the narrative going forward with more drastic consequences. It’s definitely a better way to involve players in the evolution of the game and continue selling books. Let’s face it, they’re reaching saturation on the minis market after some explosive growth. Pushing books and resculpts isn’t a bad way to keep it alive.
I don't really understand where the hatred for the Montessa Bike concept is coming from. It doesn't seem out of place in Infinity at all. The stuff Infinity is inspired by is full of bulky robots and armored suits on bikes too. The idea also seems to explicitly fit the Montessa fluff of being a mechanized fast response unit. I don't understand the extreme reaction here at all. Heavy Infantry on motorcycle seems to be one of the less outlandish things in a game full of outlandish things.
Or to put it another way, a lot of people upset about the knights on bikes got hugely excited about Russian Space Werewolfs with Rocket Hammers.
jake wrote: I don't really understand where the hatred for the Montessa Bike concept is coming from. It doesn't seem out of place in Infinity at all. The stuff Infinity is inspired by is full of bulky robots and armored suits on bikes too. The idea also seems to explicitly fit the Montessa fluff of being a mechanized fast response unit. I don't understand the extreme reaction here at all. Heavy Infantry on motorcycle seems to be one of the less outlandish things in a game full of outlandish things.
Or to put it another way, a lot of people upset about the knights on bikes got hugely excited about Russian Space Werewolfs with Rocket Hammers.
A lot of the bike hate is more as bikes are added to more and more factions the ones that have them seam less unique so it's more of a bike fatigue. Infinity has been around for a long time so as CB add stuff a lot of vanella armies feel more similar.
Father Knights and KoHS seem more fitting, if we'd really want to start cooking with gas, Hexa on motorcycle. There was nothing wrong with Montesa such as it was, except for a need of a minor upgrade in terms of his profile.
I'd also agree with the side that Montesa has no place in Varuna, however as Infinity background turned into Saturday morning cartoon they might as well be there.
A lot of the bike hate is more as bikes are added to more and more factions the ones that have them seam less unique so it's more of a bike fatigue. Infinity has been around for a long time so as CB add stuff a lot of vanella armies feel more similar.
That is true. There has been a lot of bike saturation. Its too late to close the box now, but I would have been happy if bikes had stayed with just Kum and Arigatos.
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Knight wrote: Father Knights and KoHS seem more fitting, if we'd really want to start cooking with gas, Hexa on motorcycle. There was nothing wrong with Montesa such as it was, except for a need of a minor upgrade in terms of his profile.
I'd also agree with the side that Montesa has no place in Varuna, however as Infinity background turned into Saturday morning cartoon they might as well be there.
I don't see how bikes would be more fitting for Father Knights. I mean, Montessa have always been a mechanized rapid response unit. Father Knights aren't. Hex on motorcycles don't really make much sense either given their role as spies and assassins, but it would be cool. Sepluchre Knights at least have Calvary in their name, so that kind of sort of fits I guess?
I'm not sure what the objection to the Montessa in Varuna is either, other than the weird idea that Varuna is has no roads. It still has cities full of buildings and pedestrians and vehicles. Its not just people treading water all day and living in half submerged houses.
Also, what is this "Infinity background turned into Saturday morning cartoon " idea? I've heard a few of you say that, but i have no idea what its in reference to.
Also, what is this "Infinity background turned into Saturday morning cartoon " idea? I've heard a few of you say that, but i have no idea what its in reference to.
Also the writing and plot sometimes feel like a GiJoe cartoon (not a bad thing to everyone)
Thanks. I don't think I had ever seen that before. Its pretty funny.
I feel like the writing in Infinity works best from a macro level, and as a series of quotes, reports, propaganda, first hand accounts. As a collection that kind of information provides a painting of the state of the setting without getting bogged down in details. i feel like when the writing zooms in and gets bogged down in those details that it becomes less interesting and tends toward a kind of shallow action movieness. Which isn't always bad, or unfaithful to its influences, but I feel like that kind of stuff is best in small doses.
Sometimes you need to snipe the other person and work in the shadows, other times you have to involve yourself and make a quick hit. I'd argue it's definitely much more in their character, considering the game is marketing itself as a game of special operatives that clash in the shadows as opposed to a heavy infantry that's designed, I can only guess from his appearance as frontal assault unit.
Infinity writing simply doesn't deliver the sci fi opera it promises. I guess this goes hand to hand with the fact that previous editions didn't deliver that much and the overall feeling was more of a greater stage play. Now, I feel the writing tone takes itself serious but when you have wacky references in miniatures, cringe quotes that want to convince you the quoted person is a certified high level player. It simply doesn't mesh well together. Of course, if a person wants to think Infinity writing is a high level master work... who am I to stop him thinking this way?
Knight wrote: Sometimes you need to snipe the other person and work in the shadows, other times you have to involve yourself and make a quick hit. I'd argue it's definitely much more in their character, considering the game is marketing itself as a game of special operatives that clash in the shadows as opposed to a heavy infantry that's designed, I can only guess from his appearance as frontal assault unit.
Except it is marketed just as much as a game about heavy infantry. Its a game about special operations, which include all kinds of different troops and personnel, engaging in missions against all kinds of enemies, set against a backdrop of a war against an alien aggressor. Heavy Infantry Knights assaulting alien combat robots on a battlefield are just as much a part of Infinity's marketing as TO Hexa agents skulking in dark shadows, and its been that way since the beginning.
jake wrote: I don't really understand where the hatred for the Montessa Bike concept is coming from. It doesn't seem out of place in Infinity at all. The stuff Infinity is inspired by is full of bulky robots and armored suits on bikes too. The idea also seems to explicitly fit the Montessa fluff of being a mechanized fast response unit. I don't understand the extreme reaction here at all. Heavy Infantry on motorcycle seems to be one of the less outlandish things in a game full of outlandish things.
Or to put it another way, a lot of people upset about the knights on bikes got hugely excited about Russian Space Werewolfs with Rocket Hammers.
Or to put it another way, you're misrepresenting a lot of the "upset" regarding them.
Russian Space Werewolves already existed. Space Werewolves are an element that all of the Ariadnan factions have shared amongst them, and we've seen a few Human+Space Werewolf setups at this point. They added a new weapon in the form of the Trench Hammer, which seems right now to be a TAK thing.
Montesa Knights existed before. They're mechanized units that were part of the Shock Army. We knew about them and we knew what they're about.
But there had never been mentions of them as part of VIRD. They have a base on Varuna(apparently, I still haven't seen any indications. Claim is that it's in the RPG which means it's been shoehorned in likely), but VIRD had never had them called out as anything to do with them. And that is where a good amount of the "upset" is coming from. It's not strictly "Oh noes, Knights on Motorcycles! HORRIBLE!!!11!!".
It's that:
a) A Knight unit has been jammed into a Sectorial that looked like it would be the first one free of Knights. That had myself and some others actually excited. I liked NCA because we didn't have Knights in it, then we had the Blackfriar put in rather than a rework of the Auxilia to give it a similar purpose.
b) Said Knight unit was one that already existed. It's now completely been reworked to have bikes...so the Knights that already are getting jammed into VIRD now are getting jammed in there with bikes, because of course PanO needs a bike unit right?
If you can't see why people would be upset over a unit being jammed in when it feels against the theme, let alone when said unit is also getting jammed in with a bike(which many seem to feel fits the theme even less)? Then I can't help you.
jake wrote: I don't really understand where the hatred for the Montessa Bike concept is coming from. It doesn't seem out of place in Infinity at all. The stuff Infinity is inspired by is full of bulky robots and armored suits on bikes too. The idea also seems to explicitly fit the Montessa fluff of being a mechanized fast response unit. I don't understand the extreme reaction here at all. Heavy Infantry on motorcycle seems to be one of the less outlandish things in a game full of outlandish things.
Or to put it another way, a lot of people upset about the knights on bikes got hugely excited about Russian Space Werewolfs with Rocket Hammers.
Or to put it another way, you're misrepresenting a lot of the "upset" regarding them.
Russian Space Werewolves already existed. Space Werewolves are an element that all of the Ariadnan factions have shared amongst them, and we've seen a few Human+Space Werewolf setups at this point. They added a new weapon in the form of the Trench Hammer, which seems right now to be a TAK thing.
Montesa Knights existed before. They're mechanized units that were part of the Shock Army. We knew about them and we knew what they're about.
But there had never been mentions of them as part of VIRD. They have a base on Varuna(apparently, I still haven't seen any indications. Claim is that it's in the RPG which means it's been shoehorned in likely), but VIRD had never had them called out as anything to do with them. And that is where a good amount of the "upset" is coming from. It's not strictly "Oh noes, Knights on Motorcycles! HORRIBLE!!!11!!".
It's that:
a) A Knight unit has been jammed into a Sectorial that looked like it would be the first one free of Knights. That had myself and some others actually excited. I liked NCA because we didn't have Knights in it, then we had the Blackfriar put in rather than a rework of the Auxilia to give it a similar purpose.
b) Said Knight unit was one that already existed. It's now completely been reworked to have bikes...so the Knights that already are getting jammed into VIRD now are getting jammed in there with bikes, because of course PanO needs a bike unit right?
If you can't see why people would be upset over a unit being jammed in when it feels against the theme, let alone when said unit is also getting jammed in with a bike(which many seem to feel fits the theme even less)? Then I can't help you.
ASA, NCA, ISS have been fleshed out with aleph units since they came out. That never made sense within the theme of the sectorials, but it was explained away in the fluff.
I never liked it & I wouldnt use aleph in those lists myself.
It was done ostensibly for balance reasons. It's their fiction to write, they can bend the universe as they see fit to make it work
I don't see the big deal. It's a minis game. If the model is garbage people won't use them.
ASA, NCA, ISS have been fleshed out with aleph units since they came out. That never made sense within the theme of the sectorials, but it was explained away in the fluff.
I never liked it & I wouldnt use aleph in those lists myself.
Except the selected theme units do make sense. If you can explain how a biker knight makes sense in a military force that is oriented around aquatic insertions then power to you.
It was done ostensibly for balance reasons. It's their fiction to write, they can bend the universe as they see fit to make it work
No, it was done because they felt they had to jam Knights in. That's literally all it is. You can try to say it's them "bending the universe as they see fit to make it work" but they literally could have done anything else other than a Knight and likely some of the arguing over it would go away.
People overplay how popular Knights are.
I don't see the big deal. It's a minis game. If the model is garbage people won't use them.
lol...yeah, okay. You've seen the stats right?
Its multi rifle profile is cheaper than the Combi Rifle variant despite having a bike, CH: Mimetism, and quite a bit of other stuff.
If they did it your way would sales go up?
I'm looking at all of this from the aspect of like a small business owner and that's really what they are in the global scheme of things especially against Fantasy Flight games and Games Workshop.
I think they're doing a terrific job! I don't know what you expect from a small Spanish company but I think for a small for Spanish company they are doing a wonderful job on the global market they are doing a wonderful job of satisfying their American audiences as well.
I think the rotating stock is a great idea for them from a production and selling miniatures only P.O.V.
Removing one Army from the shelf and from production opens up space for them to produce a new amry I have Miniatures for all these factions... I want new Miniatures
I don't really care if they're remaking raven-wing or if somebody doesn't like the fluff or if you lost your French army
I think they're doing a really good job and I think a lot of you "fans" are being hard on them
you're all starting to sound like GW fans... a lot like Games Workshop fans it's sad because the only reason I'm into infinity and into the community is because I am not a fan of Games Workshop or the the Games Workshop Community mindset.
Honestly shame on all of you for all your whining and complaining against this little tiny company trying to keep us happy... seriously... do any of you have any real perspective on this besides "I'm a fan and I want this thing I'm a fan and I want this thing" do you have any perspective on a small game company working internationally on probably a shoestring budget so selfish it's so ridiculous at this point you guys are all crying like a bunch of Games Workshop fans who just got their sisters of battle taken away for the fifth time... instead of crying on the Forum want you go spend some money at Corvus and support them
5deadly wrote: If they did it your way would sales go up?
Probably. Not like you'd know since they don't publish their data.
I'm looking at all of this from the aspect of like a small business owner and that's really what they are in the global scheme of things especially against Fantasy Flight games and Games Workshop.
I think they're doing a terrific job! I don't know what you expect from a small Spanish company but I think for a small for Spanish company they are doing a wonderful job on the global market they are doing a wonderful job of satisfying their American audiences as well.
You don't know what kind of a job they're doing. They don't publish sales figures and they have no real metric to establish them. They're also "small" because they keep themselves that way.
I think the rotating stock is a great idea for them from a production and selling miniatures only P.O.V.
Removing one Army from the shelf and from production opens up space for them to produce a new amry
Except it doesn't. CB, as far as I'm aware, has no buyback program. They don't ask for old stock back once it becomes removed from production. It sits there and rots. I can go over to a local game shop and get some models that are four or five years out of date now--still sold at MSRP because yeah, why not.
I have Miniatures for all these factions... I want new Miniatures
I don't really care if they're remaking raven-wing or if somebody doesn't like the fluff or if you lost your French army
This is hilarious, given you complaining about the "Games Workshop community" mindset.
I'd rather that mindset than the "Screw you, I got mine" mindset. If you want to have it that way? The door's over there, have fun posting on the official Infinity Forums.
I think they're doing a really good job and I think a lot of you "fans" are being hard on them
you're all starting to sound like GW fans... a lot like Games Workshop fans it's sad because the only reason I'm into infinity and into the community is because I am not a fan of Games Workshop or the the Games Workshop Community mindset.
Honestly shame on all of you for all your whining and complaining against this little tiny company trying to keep us happy... seriously... do any of you have any real perspective on this besides "I'm a fan and I want this thing I'm a fan and I want this thing" do you have any perspective on a small game company working internationally on probably a shoestring budget so selfish it's so ridiculous at this point you guys are all crying like a bunch of Games Workshop fans who just got their sisters of battle taken away for the fifth time... instead of crying on the Forum want you go spend some money at Corvus and support them
Why should I spend some money on supporting them when they're doing something I don't like? I have "perspective on a small game company working internationally", given that the company continually keeps limiting itself to avoid tax and legal obligations in Spain. They've talked about it in the past, they keep the number of employees low for this reason.
5deadly wrote: If they did it your way would sales go up?
Probably. Not like you'd know since they don't publish their data.
I'm looking at all of this from the aspect of like a small business owner and that's really what they are in the global scheme of things especially against Fantasy Flight games and Games Workshop.
I think they're doing a terrific job! I don't know what you expect from a small Spanish company but I think for a small for Spanish company they are doing a wonderful job on the global market they are doing a wonderful job of satisfying their American audiences as well.
You don't know what kind of a job they're doing. They don't publish sales figures and they have no real metric to establish them. They're also "small" because they keep themselves that way.
I think the rotating stock is a great idea for them from a production and selling miniatures only P.O.V.
Removing one Army from the shelf and from production opens up space for them to produce a new amry
Except it doesn't. CB, as far as I'm aware, has no buyback program. They don't ask for old stock back once it becomes removed from production. It sits there and rots. I can go over to a local game shop and get some models that are four or five years out of date now--still sold at MSRP because yeah, why not.
I have Miniatures for all these factions... I want new Miniatures
I don't really care if they're remaking raven-wing or if somebody doesn't like the fluff or if you lost your French army
This is hilarious, given you complaining about the "Games Workshop community" mindset.
I'd rather that mindset than the "Screw you, I got mine" mindset. If you want to have it that way? The door's over there, have fun posting on the official Infinity Forums.
I think they're doing a really good job and I think a lot of you "fans" are being hard on them
you're all starting to sound like GW fans... a lot like Games Workshop fans it's sad because the only reason I'm into infinity and into the community is because I am not a fan of Games Workshop or the the Games Workshop Community mindset.
Honestly shame on all of you for all your whining and complaining against this little tiny company trying to keep us happy... seriously... do any of you have any real perspective on this besides "I'm a fan and I want this thing I'm a fan and I want this thing" do you have any perspective on a small game company working internationally on probably a shoestring budget so selfish it's so ridiculous at this point you guys are all crying like a bunch of Games Workshop fans who just got their sisters of battle taken away for the fifth time... instead of crying on the Forum want you go spend some money at Corvus and support them
Why should I spend some money on supporting them when they're doing something I don't like? I have "perspective on a small game company working internationally", given that the company continually keeps limiting itself to avoid tax and legal obligations in Spain. They've talked about it in the past, they keep the number of employees low for this reason.
I have never been in a store with some big glut of unwanted CB minis. I’ve always had to dig through the mountain of old GW releases that nobody would ever buy to even find the infinity section.
It’s all online.
5deadly wrote: If they did it your way would sales go up?
given that the company continually keeps limiting itself to avoid tax and legal obligations in Spain. They've talked about it in the past, they keep the number of employees low for this reason.
This is absolute BS, sustained by your imagination and no given facts at all. I dare you to prove this point.
Please, go on, amaze us with your knowledge about CB actual company status and spanish taxes. I'll wait.
I have never been in a store with some big glut of unwanted CB minis. I’ve always had to dig through the mountain of old GW releases that nobody would ever buy to even find the infinity section.
It’s all online.
Cool for you then? I have been. The local shop that has Infinity stuff to me? They've still got the old Haqqislam, PanO, Nomad, and Yu Jing starters. They're still marked at retail too.
I have never been in a store with some big glut of unwanted CB minis. I’ve always had to dig through the mountain of old GW releases that nobody would ever buy to even find the infinity section.
It’s all online.
Cool for you then? I have been. The local shop that has Infinity stuff to me? They've still got the old Haqqislam, PanO, Nomad, and Yu Jing starters. They're still marked at retail too.
We're beyond the scope of news/rumors here but that is just the nature of the industry. Minis games will always have obsolete SKUs floating out there. If they just have old starters that's not too bad TBH. Put it up online and hope someone wants it.
Ask them how they felt about GW forcing a core catalog of SKUs, models and paint, on any store trying to sell their stuff. They will point to the heap of unsold dark eldar & orks in the corner.
We're way off topic here, but this is a non-issue, especially for infinity
@Kanluwen
We are all still waiting here for you to prove your point about:
given that the company continually keeps limiting itself to avoid tax and legal obligations in Spain. They've talked about it in the past, they keep the number of employees low for this reason.
It will be so nice if you are able to throw some light at this particular point. I'm so interested about this.
I have never been in a store with some big glut of unwanted CB minis. I’ve always had to dig through the mountain of old GW releases that nobody would ever buy to even find the infinity section.
It’s all online.
Cool for you then? I have been. The local shop that has Infinity stuff to me? They've still got the old Haqqislam, PanO, Nomad, and Yu Jing starters. They're still marked at retail too.
We're beyond the scope of news/rumors here but that is just the nature of the industry. Minis games will always have obsolete SKUs floating out there. If they just have old starters that's not too bad TBH. Put it up online and hope someone wants it.
Ask them how they felt about GW forcing a core catalog of SKUs, models and paint, on any store trying to sell their stuff. They will point to the heap of unsold dark eldar & orks in the corner.
Ask them how they felt about in return for GW "forcing a core catalog of SKUs, models and paint on any store trying to sell their stuff", they got access to GW itself as a distributor and pretty reliable release dates, shipping, etc.
Ask them how they felt about being able to actually have a core catalog of SKUs to work from.
BobbaFett wrote: @Kanluwen
We are all still waiting here for you to prove your point about:
given that the company continually keeps limiting itself to avoid tax and legal obligations in Spain. They've talked about it in the past, they keep the number of employees low for this reason.
It will be so nice if you are able to throw some light at this particular point. I'm so interested about this.
Perhaps the cost of switching from an NELC to a PLC is really prohibitive?
Or, possibly, CB is registered as a WOC which means that unless new hires are willing to match the initial investment of the owners, they cant work more than 15% of the total annual work hours.
ASA, NCA, ISS have been fleshed out with aleph units since they came out. That never made sense within the theme of the sectorials, but it was explained away in the fluff.
I never liked it & I wouldnt use aleph in those lists myself.
You must try using Teucer or the Nagas in an ASA list. Very good units. Although the "synergy" between the Nagas and the Montesa is now soon to be a thing of the past. This displeases me.
Thoughts on the Liu Xing drop trooper that explodes? This Guy
Looks like a fun unit to use. IMHO. I hope the mini is nice.
Kanluwen wrote: You don't know what kind of a job they're doing. They don't publish sales figures and they have no real metric to establish them. They're also "small" because they keep themselves that way.
Neither do you... You might be a huge fan and you might have been on the other forums and in this form a lot but at the end of the day you don't know anything about the inner workings of their business...Do You? Nope... I don't know if you've ever owned your own small business but I got no gripes about how they run their business How they do things, taxes or day to day is none of My business. If they are doing something to keep their business low and small because that's how they want it that's their business dude! Maybe they Don't want to turn into GW.. have you thought of that yet man?..have you thought about the fact that most of their employees are family and friends. You ever thought maybe this incredibly cool small sustainable business model might be a very special unique anomaly in the war gaming world... Its definitely not something I'd want to see go away anytime soon I frikkin love CB. But I have been a small business owner/creator and I do understand the things you have to do to keep it moving in the Decided Direction and as expected sometimes that direction won't satisfy every unhappy fan.
Why don't you quit trying to crush their reputation it's ridiculous... like Carlos said in the last video stop making the drama Kanluwen... Carlos can see you when you're sleeping and he's not going to let your favorite model get made if you keep Behaving Badly like this bro...
All joking aside it kind of looks bad on you to be honest Kanluwen. You seemed like a knowledgeable player maybe a community leader a little... but now I'm looking at you more like you're a whiner, needy of attention and you probably have a deep-rooted desire to be right all the time enjoy being that guy! that's fun!
Brainy Smurf Gets invited to all the parties and definitely gets all the girls
Myself knowing that Acontecimento is going to be pulled off the shelves I'm buying a Second Bagh-Mari unit today because I actually like the changes to the rules
<rounding back to Rumor and speculation>
The new rules that they just posted are looking pretty cool actually being able to embed Orc in Regulars and Engineer in Bagh-Mari with the SAA matching perks that embedded engineer is just like a Bagh-Mari now sweeeet Rao as a wild card was a great decision! Because he's a wild-card he can duo with a Tik get them up the board together becomes order efficient and you have somebody watching his back.
I don't know if I ever seriously run Duo Tiks.... I kind of want to run them this weekend to see if they perform well. It's really only 40ish more points than 2 Kriza... and I think they'd be a little bit better in a firefight with stats, the mimetism, mines.. in cover I could see them as being pretty deadly
Anyway I like the update on Acontecimento it's a lot better than it was and I'm going to go buy some models for before they're rotated out of production... Me, the French and 10 million Caskuda on planet Whogivesa
Enjoy your Infinity stuff today everybody
Bladerunner2019 wrote:[
I have never been in a store with some big glut of unwanted CB minis. I’ve always had to dig through the mountain of old GW releases that nobody would ever buy to even find the infinity section.
It’s all online.
All the game stores out by me are/where this way. The ones that are in the where category dropped the line. Infinity doesn't sell well in Utah I guess. tones of game stores (have like 5 within 15 min drive of my house) but none of them have anything newer then Ice storm last time I checked and almost all the boxes are old n2 sculpts of things that aren't in production anymore.
5deadly wrote: If they did it your way would sales go up?
given that the company continually keeps limiting itself to avoid tax and legal obligations in Spain. They've talked about it in the past, they keep the number of employees low for this reason.
This is absolute BS, sustained by your imagination and no given facts at all. I dare you to prove this point.
Please, go on, amaze us with your knowledge about CB actual company status and spanish taxes. I'll wait.
This is mostly true. Bostria has said this many times in seminars. Basically they're at a line where if they go over it their taxes go way up. It's not so much they don't want to grow but now they would have to grow at a very large amount very quickly to justify/offset the taxes and they don't feel they're in the place to basically increase their workforce 50% overnight. Angel also talked alot about spanish taxes when he did his first book. It was limited to 2k world wide as if he printed more then that the tax amount tripled or some crazy number that would make him loose money unless he could sell and print 8-10k (which he easy did) but wasn't sure at first if the book would as it's a small hobby. Topo, who does papercraft stuff for CB, did a kickstarter for a 3d printer file for a ship and they're a discussion on the infinity forums about the crazy way spain deals with businesses and taxes and his worry about making not enough money that he pays more then he takes home. Spanish taxes are really crazy relating to businesses.
ASA, NCA, ISS have been fleshed out with aleph units since they came out. That never made sense within the theme of the sectorials, but it was explained away in the fluff.
I never liked it & I wouldnt use aleph in those lists myself.
You must try using Teucer or the Nagas in an ASA list. Very good units. Although the "synergy" between the Nagas and the Montesa is now soon to be a thing of the past. This displeases me.
Thoughts on the Liu Xing drop trooper that explodes? This Guy
Looks like a fun unit to use. IMHO. I hope the mini is nice.
I have to admit, seeing that both of the new Invincible Army profiles are pseudo-HI (with the Zencha not even having Shock Immunity) is a bit of a kick in the knackers.
The Xiu Ling also has some oddly dumped stats that make me wonder why they bothered making it HI. It isn't 2W (though NWI and Bioimmunity don't make this all bad, albeit it is kind of convoluted), it has pretty bad PH (most HI is 13-14, so a non-remote HI with PH12 is kind of silly), and in general it comes off as basically just being a hackable Fraacta or Gao Tarsos with a niche, gimmicky rule that relies on us risking a Combat Jump with a low (for an HI) PH. When I heard about Explosion LX I got kind of excited, but this thing is basically kind of a waste of the concept.
The Zencha is a bit better (though again, pseudo-HI and odd dump stats like getting a super-low BS12 which puts it more on par with a SK or MI than an HI). The two BS profiles feel over-stuffed and not worth the trouble, while the SMG profile encapsulates everything wrong with the SMG (that is, it takes a profile that is kind of borderline and suddenly makes it something I'd take even in Vanilla). I just don't know why they absolutely needed to dump it down to sub-par HI stats just to have it tread ground we've been on before. And without Shock Immunity it really does just feel like a fancy LI Aleph unit instead of a proper HI trooper (but again, it's hackable without really seeing a discount for this downside).
I'm hoping this isn't the cream of the crop, because neither of these units built hype and anticipation for me. Neither is, like, Pheasant terrible. But for an HI-centric list, it feels weird to lead in with a couple of middling pseudo-HI profiles without a lot of whizbang in there.
I guess I'll see what else IA has to offer, but I'm not really feeling the hype anymore. In theory, I should love an ADHI that explodes on impact, I should love an HI skirmisher. But the way they've implemented them just feels like CB's current crop of "let's use dump stats and weird rules combos to power game the point system we created and implemented!" stuff that has been making me sort of tired of the game lately. If the game couldn't fit real ADHI or HI Skirmishers, then producing half- 'd ones doesn't really feel great.
Monkeysloth wrote: Spanish taxes are really crazy relating to businesses.
Which could be fixed if they created an overseas subsidiary. Or hopefully are planning on a large growth spurt to justify the higher taxes. because otherwise they are at major risk of becoming victims of their own success, and being unable to keep up with demand they'll lose their customers entirely because they can't keep up.
Baalirock wrote: Did anyone catch the Combined Army changes? The video seems to be down, now. I
- A single Suryat profile (HMG) picked up Tactical Sense at +3 points
- Up to one Suryat can join a Vanguard link
- Raktorak gains NCO and is now a Wildcard
- Rodak Haris
- Bit & Kiss gone
- Possibly Sogarat Haris gone
I think thats it? They spent about a third of the video hyping the new "Kornak +4 Suryat" fireteam (the one we've had access to for 5+ years)
Overall I'm not excited by any of these changes. Any improvement is good, but none of this is what I was hoping for. I'm hoping that there may still be some stuff they haven't mentioned, but I'm not holding my breath.
(Although I do like the Suryat Tactical Sense profile for vanilla CA)
The Infinite wrote: The deafening silence since the VIRD video was posted is all the PanO players collecting their jaws off the floor.
I can't tell if you mean in a good way or a bad way? I can never tell what other Infinity players are going to be excited about. PanO was my second army and I always loved the Cutter and Kamau, but Varuna looks really dull to me. But its a new army and I'll wnat to actually look at it more to get a clearer picture of what its really about. Helots seem cool.
The MO changes seem nice. I haven't played MO since before N3, so I might dig them up and give them a try at some point.
Zulu Cobras are all the fun of Hecklers with added PanO flair (i.e. firepower), for only a slight point increase. The standouts are the Lt profile and the Spitfire, but the KHD is hot on their heels.
Echo Bravo are lovely, BS 13 naturally, but the BSG + LRL profile looks nasty, and a cheap B4 weapon for discount SWC is also very nice.
Helots look a lot of fun, not as streamlined as the merc, but a way of setting up some cheap reactive turrets that will be welcome.
As for MO, cautious optimism until the fireteam compositions are fully revealed, but the Hospitalers dropping in points and getting a doctor+haris profile at the same time as the Santiago both getting a KHD and a wildcard, oh and getting Dart and the best TAG in PanO for...reasons...? is too much to process at the moment
5deadly wrote: If they did it your way would sales go up?
given that the company continually keeps limiting itself to avoid tax and legal obligations in Spain. They've talked about it in the past, they keep the number of employees low for this reason.
This is absolute BS, sustained by your imagination and no given facts at all. I dare you to prove this point.
Please, go on, amaze us with your knowledge about CB actual company status and spanish taxes. I'll wait.
This is mostly true. Bostria has said this many times in seminars. Basically they're at a line where if they go over it their taxes go way up. It's not so much they don't want to grow but now they would have to grow at a very large amount very quickly to justify/offset the taxes and they don't feel they're in the place to basically increase their workforce 50% overnight. Angel also talked alot about spanish taxes when he did his first book. It was limited to 2k world wide as if he printed more then that the tax amount tripled or some crazy number that would make him loose money unless he could sell and print 8-10k (which he easy did) but wasn't sure at first if the book would as it's a small hobby. Topo, who does papercraft stuff for CB, did a kickstarter for a 3d printer file for a ship and they're a discussion on the infinity forums about the crazy way spain deals with businesses and taxes and his worry about making not enough money that he pays more then he takes home. Spanish taxes are really crazy relating to businesses.
No, that is not correct.
I'm sorry but you are building here a kind of story with one crazy hypothesis over another and the worst part is that you still believe this narrative.
So let's go point by point because you are wrong and need to be re-directed.
Firts of all, Kanluwen did affirm with absolute certainty that "CB wasn't hiring more people because Taxes". Absolute bs. Highly hypothetical based on nothing but doritos dust under his chair. Please prove it.
Then, KovnicObama said regarding the same subject:
Perhaps the cost of switching from an NELC to a PLC is really prohibitive?
Or, possibly, CB is registered as a WOC which means that unless new hires are willing to match the initial investment of the owners, they cant work more than 15% of the total annual work hours
Wich at least is written like a hypothesis, but admiting that he has no clue about the subject and maybe the point is vaguely there. The only real fact here is that this gentleman admist that he is being highly, almost fictional, hypothetical.
And then, you, Monkeysloth, said stuff like: "Bostria has said this many times in seminars." wich essentially is an absolute wildcard that proves nothing but add some credibility about your next line: -"Basically they're at a line where if they go over it their taxes go way up."
Ok, I'll give you this: MAYBE, at 2014 CB still was at that point. Nowadays at 2018 almost '19 they've already pass through that "spanish taxes gap". They are a company with more than 50 employees, wich makes them no longer a PYME (Small or medium company in Spain). In fact, they have just hired a new community manager, they are hiring a salesman, they keep hiring people whenever they need more workforce or cover some maternity gaps. Check their Linkedin profiles.
And all this lovely storm of "inside information based on NOTHING" plus "Highly speculative forum fanfiction" was written when trying to justify why CB is discontinuing SKUs.
They are discontinuing SKUs because, as Bostria said in Adepticon 2018, the range is unsustainable at this point. The distributors, the stores, the online stores and themselves cannot handle 600 SKUs. There is a point when there is a lot of dead weight and they need to relief everyone from so many products.
Let's admit that INFINITY it's not so incredibly popular to be able to sustain 40 armies and 1400 SKUs. They are not GW. So they have decided to discontinue stuff for making space for the new stuff because no one fething care about Merovingia anymore.
No Spanish Taxes magical gap. No hiring crisis bottom line. No total annual 15% hour communist ruling. None of that.
But, hey, it was fun to read your fictional stuff.
in the PanO video there was some really exciting news about PanO. OSs got Link Special, along with various knights, so fingers crossed there. Hospitallers got a major boost (like they needed it) some points reductions across the board. Santiagos got a nice little rework.
But most importantly of all, Teutons are linkable again.
5deadly wrote: If they did it your way would sales go up?
given that the company continually keeps limiting itself to avoid tax and legal obligations in Spain. They've talked about it in the past, they keep the number of employees low for this reason.
This is absolute BS, sustained by your imagination and no given facts at all. I dare you to prove this point.
Please, go on, amaze us with your knowledge about CB actual company status and spanish taxes. I'll wait.
This is mostly true. Bostria has said this many times in seminars. Basically they're at a line where if they go over it their taxes go way up. It's not so much they don't want to grow but now they would have to grow at a very large amount very quickly to justify/offset the taxes and they don't feel they're in the place to basically increase their workforce 50% overnight. Angel also talked alot about spanish taxes when he did his first book. It was limited to 2k world wide as if he printed more then that the tax amount tripled or some crazy number that would make him loose money unless he could sell and print 8-10k (which he easy did) but wasn't sure at first if the book would as it's a small hobby. Topo, who does papercraft stuff for CB, did a kickstarter for a 3d printer file for a ship and they're a discussion on the infinity forums about the crazy way spain deals with businesses and taxes and his worry about making not enough money that he pays more then he takes home. Spanish taxes are really crazy relating to businesses.
No, that is not correct.
I'm sorry but you are building here a kind of story with one crazy hypothesis over another and the worst part is that you still believe this narrative.
So let's go point by point because you are wrong and need to be re-directed.
Firts of all, Kanluwen did affirm with absolute certainty that "CB wasn't hiring more people because Taxes". Absolute bs. Highly hypothetical based on nothing but doritos dust under his chair. Please prove it.
Then, KovnicObama said regarding the same subject:
Perhaps the cost of switching from an NELC to a PLC is really prohibitive?
Or, possibly, CB is registered as a WOC which means that unless new hires are willing to match the initial investment of the owners, they cant work more than 15% of the total annual work hours
Wich at least is written like a hypothesis, but admiting that he has no clue about the subject and maybe the point is vaguely there. The only real fact here is that this gentleman admist that he is being highly, almost fictional, hypothetical.
And then, you, Monkeysloth, said stuff like: "Bostria has said this many times in seminars." wich essentially is an absolute wildcard that proves nothing but add some credibility about your next line: -"Basically they're at a line where if they go over it their taxes go way up."
Ok, I'll give you this: MAYBE, at 2014 CB still was at that point. Nowadays at 2018 almost '19 they've already pass through that "spanish taxes gap". They are a company with more than 50 employees, wich makes them no longer a PYME (Small or medium company in Spain). In fact, they have just hired a new community manager, they are hiring a salesman, they keep hiring people whenever they need more workforce or cover some maternity gaps. Check their Linkedin profiles.
And all this lovely storm of "inside information based on NOTHING" plus "Highly speculative forum fanfiction" was written when trying to justify why CB is discontinuing SKUs.
They are discontinuing SKUs because, as Bostria said in Adepticon 2018, the range is unsustainable at this point. The distributors, the stores, the online stores and themselves cannot handle 600 SKUs. There is a point when there is a lot of dead weight and they need to relief everyone from so many products.
Let's admit that INFINITY it's not so incredibly popular to be able to sustain 40 armies and 1400 SKUs. They are not GW. So they have decided to discontinue stuff for making space for the new stuff because no one fething care about Merovingia anymore.
No Spanish Taxes magical gap. No hiring crisis bottom line. No total annual 15% hour communist ruling. None of that.
But, hey, it was fun to read your fictional stuff.
It’s true. They looked at the sales numbers against their plans for the future and cut some SKUs. This isn’t some vast conspiracy.
The real secret is most of the people complaining the loudest don’t actually play these factions. If not, they already own all the discontinued models, or can easily get them a year later.
Let’s move beyond the outrage here. there is a lot of news dropping this week. The hobby is growing in new directions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
.Mikes. wrote: in the PanO video there was some really exciting news about PanO. OSs got Link Special, along with various knights, so fingers crossed there. Hospitallers got a major boost (like they needed it) some points reductions across the board. Santiagos got a nice little rework.
But most importantly of all, Teutons are linkable again.
Praise Space Jesus.
They’re really pushing to make limited insertion lists more viable.
Considering all the dull tournament lists I have seen, full of order monkeys & mostly uninteresting profiles, this is a good change.
I am liking the new rules which are making order pools more adaptable. LT lvl 2, NCO, that one giving a unit an additional irregular order. Makes me excited to see what IA will bring.
Red Harvest wrote: Me too. I like Infinity at 10 orders. I don't like Infinity at 20 orders.
I understand, but I like both (having a CHA army also), but the way it's going is it gives us the flexibility to make either viable. The game's going in a good direction.
Hey, have any new minis been previewed for the Invincible Army? I admit I haven’t watched the Yu Jing video yet, because listening to Carlos makes my brain itch.
Red Harvest wrote: Me too. I like Infinity at 10 orders. I don't like Infinity at 20 orders.
I understand, but I like both (having a CHA army also), but the way it's going is it gives us the flexibility to make either viable. The game's going in a good direction.
What did Stephen Rao have to do with any of this? (I'm referring to the appearance of the now discontinued mini.)
You didn't hear? he's omnipotent now.
Or viable in any link, same thing.
This will be interesting to see. He's not super-optimized, but he's a reasonable meat and potatoes choice as a LT or in a B-M fireteam. For once, I am actually intrigued by the new rules that may be coming, regarding the order pool and its uses at any rate, rather than cursing them as unwelcomed bloat. Just please, no more hacking. And no more weapons like Chest Mines.
So, if SAA is no longer being produced, what's the plan for the Tikbalang/Uhlan set? Please tell me they've mentioned plans to do a x2 Uhlan box to replace it. With new poses, hopefully.
And what about the fact that the vanilla PanO starter includes an SAA unit? I wonder if we'll be seeing a new PanO starter in the near future?
Barzam wrote: So, if SAA is no longer being produced, what's the plan for the Tikbalang/Uhlan set? Please tell me they've mentioned plans to do a x2 Uhlan box to replace it. With new poses, hopefully.
And what about the fact that the vanilla PanO starter includes an SAA unit? I wonder if we'll be seeing a new PanO starter in the near future?
Tiks are now available in MO apparently.
As for the Akal Commando in the vanilla starter, its also available in vanilla, so...
Not super fond of the color scheme, but that's an easy fix. Nothing super special about the concept art, hoping for a standout pose. Really excited to finally see this guy.
Barzam wrote: So, if SAA is no longer being produced, what's the plan for the Tikbalang/Uhlan set? Please tell me they've mentioned plans to do a x2 Uhlan box to replace it. With new poses, hopefully.
And what about the fact that the vanilla PanO starter includes an SAA unit? I wonder if we'll be seeing a new PanO starter in the near future?
Tiks are now available in MO apparently.
As for the Akal Commando in the vanilla starter, its also available in vanilla, so...
Reasoning for Tikbalang in MO is that the SAA get decimated holding out against the Combined in the 3rd offensive and survivors are taken off the front lines. MO is rotated in to take their positions on Paradiso and SAA leave much of their equipment behind for MO to use.
Barzam wrote: So, if SAA is no longer being produced, what's the plan for the Tikbalang/Uhlan set? Please tell me they've mentioned plans to do a x2 Uhlan box to replace it. With new poses, hopefully.
And what about the fact that the vanilla PanO starter includes an SAA unit? I wonder if we'll be seeing a new PanO starter in the near future?
Tiks are now available in MO apparently.
As for the Akal Commando in the vanilla starter, its also available in vanilla, so...
Reasoning for Tikbalang in MO is that the SAA get decimated holding out against the Combined in the 3rd offensive and survivors are taken off the front lines. MO is rotated in to take their positions on Paradiso and SAA leave much of their equipment behind for MO to use.
It's also because they refuse to separate the Tikbalang from the Uhlan in the boxed set.
Every game uses lore to backup sales and development decisions, that's no secret. Every. Company. Most companies even flat-out admit it, it makes perfect sense. the only difference is bad companies half-arse the fluff and come up with crap justifications, good ones come up with interesting ways to justify it. Or do you really think that GW found the idea of squats being eaten by tyranids so engaging that they just HAD to write it into the story, sales be damned?
Given some of Kirby's decisions, "Sales Be Damned" sounds like the correct answer. Fortunately for GW, the company now has a CEO who thinks differently.
All of the discontinued ASA units are available in Vanilla.
Most but not all ASA SKU, as is the case with Merovigian SKUs, have been discontinued, neither profiles in Vanilla or the sectorial have been discontinued and people can freely use them,
I do not know were the story about why there are Tickbalangs in MO came from, but it is not true.
"Most but not all ASA SKU, as is the case with Merovigian SKUs, have been discontinued, neither profiles in Vanilla or the sectorial have been discontinued and people can freely use them, "
Except for the Montessa, who is currently having a midlife crisis so bought a Chopper.
Further MO changes are trickling through from the official Spanish forum:
- Hospitallers no longer link with Magisters
- Teutons can Haris with Magisters
- Serapch profile is getting retouched
- Changes to the Santiago profiles (not sure if this is in addition to what we saw int he vid)
- Father Knight may be able to link wth the 'kids' (either Magsiters or OSs I think)
Shock Army of Acontecimento
6
REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
AKAL COMMANDO Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, E/M 
KNIGHT OF MONTESA Lieutenant Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Shock 
uo (I think there might be a non-
. Also one of the teaser spoke about Ko Dali, so maybe she will see some changes too.
). Bikers are in 
enjoy being that guy! that's fun!
'd ones doesn't really feel great.
