GW just sent another C&D to Fumbbl.com. I play BB there nightly to get my fix. This site has invigorated my passion for this game and keeps it going. We have a local Tabletop league as well, but my appetite for BB is just so ravenous I use fumbbl to "get by".

MANY people are upset somehow by GW's heavy hand. We should all understand that they have to protect their IP, but in this case fumbbl has been around for some 10+ years. They specifically state that you MUST own the game to play there.

I have a proposition for everyone who is upset by these Cease and Decist orders.

It's time to voice our opinion to GW. Note that this isnt necessarily ONLY to voice our dissatisfaction with the C&D orders, call it dissatisfaction with price increases, lack of Grand Tournaments, Lack of FAQ's, overabundance of Marine codex while ignoring Dark Eldar...whatever.

My Proposition:

This is Christmas, the time of year they count on to make some money off of us fools that dont drop them like a bad habit like they deserve.

Boycott them for 2 months.

Just 2 months, you can wait for that new model, that new codex. Make them feel it during the Christmas season. Enough is enough and we as consumers CAN make a difference and make our dissatisfaction felt to the company that seems to care not a fig about those that keep it alive.

We should be the ones that control our hobby. If we can make GW sit up and take notice of us things could only get better.

Dont spend a dime on GW product for 2 months. Make them realise who decides whether or not they stay in business.

I'm not asking for a single thing from GW from any of my loved ones this Christmas, do the same. Ask for money, ask for Visa gift cards (not GW gift certificates), ask for gift certificates to your local gamestore. DO NOT get ANYTHING from GW until AFTER X-mas. They will feel it if enough of us get together.

Sorry, but no. I want my Land Raider.

I agree with this. Put me down for more than 2 months though given the current state of "threats" regarding LRB6.

Spread the word. Put a link to this thread on every forum possible. Make it viral.

You want your LandRaider? Do you want it at the current price or for 10 dollars MORE after the next price hike? I'm betting you've got something else to paint while you wait 2 months to pick it up.

I've put a link to this on Warseer and Fumbbl.com. Spread the word. Make GW hurt this X-mas and have them apologise to us, the consumer for their shoddy treatment of us thru their lack of consideration to those that put money in their pockets.

I join the boycott.

Except for the 15 Squig herd models I'm buying this weekend I'm in.

Time to make a table.

Even better is to get people to mail Jervis (just to annoy him endlessly) with letters (not email). He'll won't have time to pontificate endlessly about how sucky tourney players are, and might actually raise the issue of the IP crackdown with the powers that be.

It is a pity Gav is no longer in the studio... I know where he is hiding on facebook

Here's the problem with this plan:

Deadshane1 wrote:This is Christmas, the time of year they count on to make some money off of us fools that dont drop them like a bad habit like they deserve.

Unless things have changed significantly in the last few years, GW's sales are predominantly stable year-round. Whilst Christmas sees a slight increase in sales, from what I've read in their financials in the past, it's nowhere near the sort of boost that you see in many other retail fields, and is not something that they rely on for anything.

It would be interesting to see if we could combine to make any sort of dent though.

insaniak wrote:Here's the problem with this plan:

Deadshane1 wrote:This is Christmas, the time of year they count on to make some money off of us fools that dont drop them like a bad habit like they deserve.

Unless things have changed significantly in the last few years, GW's sales are predominantly stable year-round. Whilst Christmas sees a slight increase in sales, from what I've read in their financials in the past, it's nowhere near the sort of boost that you see in many other retail fields, and is not something that they rely on for anything.

If enough people join the boycott...they WILL feel it.

If this sentiment is all over the internet enough...they will know 'why'.

What can it hurt to try insaniak? JOIN US!

100 % with you on this Deadshane.

ive been boycotting GW for the last year, I only get my Models on ebay

I will join the boycott so no space wolf battleforce for me!!!!!

I'll be joining up with this.

Use the money you were going to give to GW to try out some indie companies games, like Heavy Gear, Ubran War/Metropolis, Malifaux, Kings of War, etc.

Only thing honestly is I need to get my games day ticket besides that im with you on this.

Hmm, guess you lot will hate me in Jan when new Tyranids come out and I spend about $1k of my student loans on more Tyranids.

Maybe after that I'll boycott. I'll have plenty to paint.

Fateweaver wrote:Hmm, guess you lot will hate me in Jan when new Tyranids come out and I spend about $1k of my student loans on more Tyranids.

Maybe after that I'll boycott. I'll have plenty to paint.

Naw, you're gonna need to buy some paint.

Deadshane1 wrote:If enough people join the boycott...they WILL feel it.

So people say every time they try to get one of these off the ground. Which is about every six months, for at least the last ten years.



I can appreciate people wanting to take a stand over something that has upset them. But, frankly, I can't see there actually being enough people out there upset enough over GW enforcing their IP ownership on a couple of fringe websites to actually make any sort of appreciable dent.

YMMV, obviously.

I'm in. I just ordered 80 Warzone troops from Prince August. You can't beat getting your bulk troops for $0.50 each. They also need to be told that they're being boycotted. I'm gonna send a letter to them and tell them what this is being done. I want a better Chaos Codex!!!

I don't use Citadel except for Foundation washes (only because there isn't a better line of washes in all of gaming). For paints I use Ral Partha, Tamiya (sp), P3 and Vallejo and I prime with Krylon or Duplicolor primers.

The metallic line is good as well but my 'Nids won't need metallics so I've got the washes I need already, paints I don't use so I'd say I'm set for a while.

I think this is a worthy cause, and I support the sentiment. I do think that it will be an up-hill struggle, and as a rule I personally do not get involved in 'armchair activism' http://www.breakthechain.org/armchair.html .


I (as a cynic) seriously doubt the efficacy of internet boycotts. The truth of the matter is most people dont care, and those that do are low in number.

Although - to be fair to the idea, lets do the maths... Dakka has 21,516 registered members. The mode average spend in 2008 was $500 US (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/246612.page) .

thats a $10M per year spend from Dakka users alone using rough as guts figures. In the suggested 2 months, if everyone on this site spends nothing, thats $1.8 million (again, rough as guts here).

GW revenue last year was 125.7 million pounds - current conversion this works out to be $210million US.

So a 100% successful boycot would be 0.8-1% impact on revenue. This is not insignificant - I consider it would be noticed.

BUT - it presumes a) that the boycot is 100% successful, and b) that the purchases in November/December are cancelled, not merely deferred. the boycot is not likely to be noticed if January is a bumper month for sales as those boycotters can no-longer wait for their land raiders!


I personally think that letters (hard copies, not emails) to GW and WD expressing the concerns intelligently from a large number of people is a much better method of getting attention.

In any case, if this is to be pursued, you need to consider how to make GW aware that a sudden drop in sales is in attached to their C&D orders. Unless this is made clear, the boycott will lack direction.

(oh yeah, Im not spending any money on GW for the next 6 months - but Im unlikely to anyway - I have everything I need).

I haven't purchased anything GW for this entire year and will continue to not purchase their product as long as they continue to be idiots. (Which, given their current track record, will mean that I will never buy GW product directly from them ever again.)

eBay is my friend here.

I actually suggest sending a letter, with a good 1,000 + Signatures. I could mail it to Jervis myself, as long as we get enough sig's.

The problem with a boycott is that over the internet, it is somewhat impossible to ensure that it will work.

At least, I'll try to get some signatures on other forums as well. These Cease and Desists are getting way too ridiculous.

But there IS a way to somewhat get attention.

That is to officially form a coalition/union for this cause ;P

I think GW is making a big mistake trying to shut down all the Blood Bowl sites. It helps promote the game at no cost to them.

G

insaniak wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:If enough people join the boycott...they WILL feel it.

So people say every time they try to get one of these off the ground. Which is about every six months, for at least the last ten years.



I can appreciate people wanting to take a stand over something that has upset them. But, frankly, I can't see there actually being enough people out there upset enough over GW enforcing their IP ownership on a couple of fringe websites to actually make any sort of appreciable dent.

YMMV, obviously.

This. But I guess, I might as well join in...after I get the last batch of Sentinels and Kasrkin for my Guard.

I've got a big enough painting backlog as is, but eh. I don't even use GW paints anymore.

Aww hell.

I've had a change of heart. I'm in (Right after this weekend, but hell, I don't buy from GW itself anyway)

Green Blow Fly wrote:I think GW is making a big mistake trying to shut down all the Blood Bowl sites. It helps promote the game at no cost to them.

G

See, I still am of the opinion that it's not just as simple as "GW hates you Blood Bowl players.". I still fervently believe that, considering the timing of it, they're cracking down on the "browser" version to aid sales of the actual game.

But I can't fault them, however, for wanting to shut down places that were posting up the rules/statlines, deep-linking to GW's images, etc.

Green Blow Fly wrote:I think GW is making a big mistake trying to shut down all the Blood Bowl sites. It helps promote the game at no cost to them.

This is a big part of the problem with trying to form an organised protest... making sure everyone actually knows what's going on, and is complaining about the same thing.

For what it's worth, GW haven't 'shut down' any Blood Bowl sites. They've issued notices for certain sites to stop practices that GW consider to infringe on their (GW's) Intellectual Property.

Not at all the same thing.

I wasn't going to buy anything for the next couple months anyways, so no problem.

Of course, this is just as effective as not buying gas on Thursdays or whatever the current pseudo-boycott fad is...

If people wanted to show some real gumption, they'd boycott GW for 2 years, not 2 months.
____

Correction:

I will honor the boycott, except for the Dec. 5th Bizarre Bazaar. Buying at my convenience doesn't count.

Also does this include books/forgeworld

Lord of battles wrote:Also does this include books/forgeworld

That's really up to you, given that the stated purpose was to show GW how upset you are with their recent behaviour. Nobody else here can tell you how cranky you are with them...

I had planned some purchases. Going to hold off on them now.

Thing is, the public spin on Dakka is that we're a bunch of anti-GW cranks. The only
way this would work is:

1. It hurts their bottom line.
2. It hurts their public image, which hurts their bottom line.

People I talk to who are good fans of GW don't often see Dakka as a place to set
their moral gaming compass by. So how will this work?

Deadshane1 wrote:Spread the word. Put a link to this thread on every forum possible. Make it viral.

You want your LandRaider? Do you want it at the current price or for 10 dollars MORE after the next price hike? I'm betting you've got something else to paint while you wait 2 months to pick it up.

I've put a link to this on Warseer and Fumbbl.com. Spread the word. Make GW hurt this X-mas and have them apologise to us, the consumer for their shoddy treatment of us thru their lack of consideration to those that put money in their pockets.

I guarantee you the mods and owner at warseer will delete your thread without warning within 15 minutes of it being up. They are so pro GW-corporate its sickens me.

I am sick of GW's draconian attitude.

My pledge:

My will ensure that for the entirity of 2010 the sum total of my direct or indirect purchases from GW will be less than the sum total of my investment in second hand used purchases of GW stock.

If I find insufficient second hand GW materials to exceed them I will go without new retail or internet ordered materials to match. If this means buying second hand old clanrats than the new resculpt models so be it, i will take the inferior versions to keep my pledge.


What this means: At least half of what I buy will offer no further income to GW. This de-facto halves any income to the company in the least without sacrificing my volume of purchases.

If there is a will, there is a way.


How many people would be interested in an organized group, is the question.


We have the power of the internets.

Anything - is possible.

I am sorry, I think a boycott is a way to voice your anger to the C&D it will not hurt GW during Christmas. They have even sales all year long and see spikes everytime they release a new system, codex or edition. They plan these spikes throughout the year to even out their profits.

The only person that will be hurt by a two month boycott is your FLGS owner. In this time of economic downturn people have stop buy as much in the hobby to save money. My FLGS owners sales are down store wide by 50% more more. A boycott of GW which is one of his biggest sellers would kill the store.

While a boycott is an option, the best thing to do is to get gamers to buy stock in the company and make your voice heard when votes come up. Share holders are allowed to band together and vote out the board, CEO and CFO. Shareholders can also sue the company for mismanagement. If every gamer bought one or even five shares then everyone voted against the board that will do more good than a boycott.

Go boycott GW mailorder and GW stores all you want.

..but keep buying SOMETHING from your FLGS. Stores are dying right now from the crappy economy. They need the people that play there to support them.


Hmmm, or if you really want to try something odd...Pick a non GW model. Something that doesn't sell a ton of. Like bodger mechanics from Warmachine, or a T-70 tank from Flames of War. Everyone who is boycotting GW goes out and buys the same item, do a special order if you have to. If Privateer suddenly sells 5000 blisters of Bodgers, it might send a better message.

So pick a cool model from somewhere, everyone buys one, put up a dakka gallery and post your pics. Thousands of pics of the same miniature.

Much better than a 1000 signatures on an E-protest.

I agree with mikhaila. This is a much better idea than an outright boycott since that will kill the FLGS.

Also, here is the current share price as of 12:01 AM CST for Games Workshop, LTD:

18 Nov: 272.09 p 7.91 (2.83%)

Looking at the overall 4 year corprate sheets and the company is pretty stable. Even with the economic downturn GW have made more money 2009 than in the last three years.

mikhaila wrote:Go boycott GW mailorder and GW stores all you want.

..but keep buying SOMETHING from your FLGS. Stores are dying right now from the crappy economy. They need the people that play there to support them.


Hmmm, or if you really want to try something odd...Pick a non GW model. Something that doesn't sell a ton of. Like bodger mechanics from Warmachine, or a T-70 tank from Flames of War. Everyone who is boycotting GW goes out and buys the same item, do a special order if you have to. If Privateer suddenly sells 5000 blisters of Bodgers, it might send a better message.

So pick a cool model from somewhere, everyone buys one, put up a dakka gallery and post your pics. Thousands of pics of the same miniature.

Much better than a 1000 signatures on an E-protest.

Like buying Reaper miniatures for my D&D-addict nephews? I was considering that anyway. Sounds like a good time to get into AT-43. They need some support.

warpcrafter wrote: Sounds like a good time to get into AT-43. They need some support.

Alliance says ONI street date is November 25th.

Evil Corporation and Zombies are a good GW alternative, right?

And more AT-43 players is always appreciated.

I remember the "don't buy gas on Tuesday boycott". Yeah, that had a huge impact on gas prices. I mean when that happened gas suddenly fell to 10 cents per gallon....errr wait. It didn't. It just ended up in people buying gas that day because they realized to wait another day would have meant sitting alongside the road somewhere.

Hmm.

I don't think I'll boycott GW. I'm too addicted to their miniatures and nobody in my group is interested in another system and I usually order through Neal so if I don't buy GW products than Neal loses my money, therefore Neal loses money.

Naw, I don't think I'll be in.

That is why buying GW stock and voting against the CEO/CFO when votes come up, or do a share holder suit to get them to knock off the C/D letters. That will do alot more than a boycott.

Fateweaver wrote:I remember the "don't buy gas on Tuesday boycott". Yeah, that had a huge impact on gas prices. I mean when that happened gas suddenly fell to 10 cents per gallon....errr wait. It didn't. It just ended up in people buying gas that day because they realized to wait another day would have meant sitting alongside the road somewhere.

Hmm.

I don't think I'll boycott GW. I'm too addicted to their miniatures and nobody in my group is interested in another system and I usually order through Neal so if I don't buy GW products than Neal loses my money, therefore Neal loses money.

Naw, I don't think I'll be in.

Right there with ya, FW.

This is pretty silly. Sounds to me liek GW is protecting itself by trying to stop other companies making models of their IP. As The Iak said, they're just asking them to stop infringing not "shutting them down".

I agree and support this but I personally can't think of the last time when I bought a model from GW directly. I hate the company so much... but Warhammer is so great. It's like an abusive relationship

GW is on a rampage right now with IP as they plan on diversifying into media and in mediau your IP is everything.


This is probably not even the end of it. Look for GW to file a patent on 28mm range miniatures or the concept of using DICE ALA tapping etc.. similar to what MTG did a few years ago.


this isnt even remotely close to being over.

Not buying GW for 2 months is easy unless you..

a) Don't have a usable army
or
b) Have impulse control problems

..in which case pm me about buying some magic beans that I just so happen to possess

That being said, I highly doubt many people will boycott GW at all as most people either don't care or are content to buy the drugs that are provided by their normal pushers You need boycott support groups to keep it going.

mikhaila wrote:Go boycott GW mailorder and GW stores all you want.

..but keep buying SOMETHING from your FLGS. Stores are dying right now from the crappy economy. They need the people that play there to support them.


Hmmm, or if you really want to try something odd...Pick a non GW model. Something that doesn't sell a ton of. Like bodger mechanics from Warmachine, or a T-70 tank from Flames of War. Everyone who is boycotting GW goes out and buys the same item, do a special order if you have to. If Privateer suddenly sells 5000 blisters of Bodgers, it might send a better message.

So pick a cool model from somewhere, everyone buys one, put up a dakka gallery and post your pics. Thousands of pics of the same miniature.

Much better than a 1000 signatures on an E-protest.

I like this idea. Lets crank it up a notch. Why not get everyone who is on board to buy one of the contested models and then just simple post it to GW with a simple, "You Suck" attached to it?

I might have joined this, but what's the point? It wouldn't make a significant dent in their sales for them to notice. You see there would be a lot of parents being dragged into their local GW store, various Space Marines boxes will be pointed out and they won't even notice this boycott at all. A fair few of them would probably be the AoBR set as it's an alright deal. So expect a few new Space Marines and/or Ork players to show up and fill in the small gap that this will create.

Im in. I can go buy some warmachine stuff.

Or everyone to take the pledge to try out that 'other company' for Christmas. So go get your AT-43 starter army
http://www.rackham.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=57&Itemid=234
or try out a beginners force for Warmachine
http://privateerpress.com/
or some of those amazing figures from Infinity
http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity_ENG/
Consider the possibility of a historical army you've always loved such as US civil war or Napoleonics and take a look at those amazing figures by The Perry Twins
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/index2.html
Check out Flames of War
http://www.flamesofwar.com/
or West Wind
http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/
or Gear Krieg
http://dp9.com/Worlds/GK.htm
If you're a fantasy player, take a look at Gamezone miniatures, who quite literally make warhammer figures better than GW do
http://www.gamezoneminiatures.de/index.php/language/en/XTCsid/fb2638db7ba680ee4c57fc24ea46771a
or Avatars of War, whose character models put the GW ones to shame!
http://www.arena-deathmatch.com/forums/portal.php

Head on over to the shop area of Cool Mini Or Not to take a look at a huge range of alternative figures.
http://www.coolminiornot.com/store/section.php?xSec=2&xPage=1&jssCart=025f131db4010a4ffdba51c6c58c75e3

Take just one year and one month and instead of putting your money with the usual suspect, go browse other companies.

If you can't do that, spend the entire Christmas budget on non-GW terrain. Or perhaps the Vallejo paints instead of the GW ones.

I didn't plan on getting anything GW for Xmas this year anyway... but sure, I'll add some spite to those sentiments!

Sign me up, doc!

Although I do have a date planned with Gamezone and Cipher Studios...

insaniak wrote:I can appreciate people wanting to take a stand over something that has upset them. But, frankly, I can't see there actually being enough people out there upset enough over GW enforcing their IP ownership on a couple of fringe websites to actually make any sort of appreciable dent.

That is certainly true. I've stopped buying GW product because it makes me feel good, not because I want to make a stand. I have no doubt that GW will continue on the path it's chosen for as long as it exists, and there's nothing any of us little people can do to stop it. That doesn't mean we should necessarily assist them in so doing.

"It's hard for thee to kick against the pricks." (Acts 26:14)

Its time to go Privateer Press.

Support the coming up company.

I'd join you. But I wasn't planning on giving GW any of my money anyway... Oh well!

I'll join the boycott. GW are just like the French in soccer--cheaters!

DAMN... you guys know Im waiting to splash some serious money in NIDS, I have waited since the last nid codex to buy new bugs, and this would mean I would probably lose some kind of army deal...

You know what, Frack it! I'm also sick and tired of GW anal atitudes so even if its going to be hard on my beloved bugs I'm 100% in.

No cristhmas at GW I will take my business elsewere... redboxgames, infinit... going to search for some terrain for a table etc...

Even if you guys managed to pull off a boycot that actually impacts GW's quarterly profits, they'll just blame it on the recession.

meh. I'm more bothered that it's now taken them 2 weeks to get me a box of Bloodletters.

Breotan wrote:Even if you guys managed to pull off a boycot that actually impacts GW's quarterly profits, they'll just blame it on the recession.

Well dont forget that even if thats a big possibility... the competition will get our money so they will get extra boost, as little as this may sound they will for sure apreciate it and who knows develop even better products...

I boycotted GW a long time ago and will continue to do so until Dark Eldar get a new codex.
I go to ebay when I want to expand my tau.

Nurgleboy77 wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:I remember the "don't buy gas on Tuesday boycott". Yeah, that had a huge impact on gas prices. I mean when that happened gas suddenly fell to 10 cents per gallon....errr wait. It didn't. It just ended up in people buying gas that day because they realized to wait another day would have meant sitting alongside the road somewhere.

Hmm.

I don't think I'll boycott GW. I'm too addicted to their miniatures and nobody in my group is interested in another system and I usually order through Neal so if I don't buy GW products than Neal loses my money, therefore Neal loses money.

Naw, I don't think I'll be in.

Right there with ya, FW.

This is pretty silly. Sounds to me liek GW is protecting itself by trying to stop other companies making models of their IP. As The Iak said, they're just asking them to stop infringing not "shutting them down".

I don't seek to persuade you either way. As a moderator I am not going to argue for or against a boycott.

However I would like to correct the misconception about what GW are doing which has made people angry.

GW have no legal right to stop Impact Miniatures making Special Player figures for Blood Bowl. GW do not own IP to protect in the Special Characters.
GW do not produce the figures for several of the Special Players already in the rules, and these are the ones that Impact are covering.
Rather than make figures themselves, GW has threatened to delete all Special Players from the 6th edition rules, which are ready to be released.

I am sure you will understand why this makes fans of the game angry.

I'm with you guys!

I've stopped spending on GW stuff atm, actually.

PP, and CB (infinity) are getting some of the love for a change. Even Old Crow got some.

I do need to buy a chimera shortly though (to become a template for some plasticard skullduggery). I can hope to find a badly assembled with superglue model secondhand (it worked for my only G drop pod).

Heh, I haven't bought a new GW model in a year or so, and there was a 6 year gap before that. Nice to see you lot are catching up

To carry on Mean Green Stompa's list..

You could try Ground Zero Games.
http://www.groundzerogames.net/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
Stargrunt is 25mm realistic Sci-fi at £1 a figure or a platoon of 24 for £19!
25mm too big for you? You can play the same system with 15mm too. and they don't cost the Earth either at £2.50 for 8 figures or £24 for 3 apc's and three squads.
Maybe you like epic? Try Dirtside, the 1/300 system.
Space battles? Full Thrust is for you.
The best bit from the stargrunt rulebook?
"Although our range of 25mm miniatures is designed for this system, you shouldn't feel you have to use them. The universe background should be considered a starting point, or you can ignore it all together." How refreshing

Pig iron make a nice range of tank and apc models.
http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/?zenid=ab55a96bc16b44f2588bc0b614341dd3
As do Old Crow
http://www.oldcrowmodels.co.uk/

Maybe Gripping Beast's massive range of Classical, Dark Age, low/mid Medieval, and WW2 (plus others!) figures will float your boat.
http://www.grippingbeast.com/webpage.php?PageID=1

I have to agree with Mean Green Stompa's list as the Perry Samurai are very nice sculpts.

I'm there, have cancelled my Fortress order...
Mick

Hmmmm, I'm not gonna boycott GW as a) the FLGS doesn't stock the other game I play [Reaper's Warlord], b) I like Tyranids, and c) GW protecing their IP doesn't really bother me. The whole BB star player fiasco was stupid, but it isn't a big enough deal for me to decide to hate the whole company.

I've already been boycotting them for a while. The last product I ever bought from GW was Space Hulk, and before that was the Planetstrike book, and as far as I know those are the only two purchases I've made for the entire year...and a broadside suit from Maelstrom, so three. I've been doing my damndest though to make sure I can still enjoy my hobby without giving GW my money, I've even been replacing my GW paint with Vallejo stuff.

I don't plan on buying anything from GW for Christmas anyway, so this should be easy enough.

GRRR! HOW DARE THEY PROTECT THEIR IP, THE ACT OF WHICH IS A LEGAL REQUISITE IF YOU WISH TO MAINTAIN OWNERSHIP OF SAID IP!

GRRR!!! GRRRRR!!!!! AND THRICE GRRRR!

Except it isn't their IP if they don't produce a miniature for that character.
Copying a Terminator, or a Tau (or whatever) and calling it something else is a breach of IP.
Recasting a figure with the intent to sell is a breach of IP.

Making new figures to fit in with an existing line, but which have not been produced by anyone else, is not a breach of IP.

Otherwise GW could sue any other fantasy figure manufacturer just for making a Minotaur, or Elf or what have you.

But I don't believe you can actively advertise your product as being compatible with another product? Could well be wrong.

But the shutting down of FUMBBL, regardless whether their website says you must have a hardcopy of the game is a totally different kettle of fish.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:GRRR! HOW DARE THEY PROTECT THEIR IP, THE ACT OF WHICH IS A LEGAL REQUISITE IF YOU WISH TO MAINTAIN OWNERSHIP OF SAID IP!

No one really minds them attempting to protect their IP. It's the seemingly heavy-handed way they go about it that gets the wind up everyone.

If they'd produced some of their own Star Players and trademarked the names instead of attempting to blackmail the fanbase they might have fared a little better in the opinion poles.

Sure there will be "good" reasons why that wasn't an option for them. In which case they can't be surprised when fans of the game feel somewhat aggrieved.

As ever with GW it is the complete lack of transparency and any "rapport" with the fans of the game by those in positions of apparent power that is the problem. Not the actual attempted result. Again, GW maangement just show themselves to be incompetent loons, still stuck back in the stone age with their lack of any satisfactory PR strategy.

Here's a story running the rounds of the fan community, up in lights on all the main sources of GW miniatures news, yet GW are totally silent and keeping shtum. If they had any sense they'd be on the forums or MyFaceTwitterBook mingling and shmoozing. Instead they are locked in their ivory towers, manning the barricades and whinging about the nassssssty customerssss my precioussssss!

If you condemn this idea, you are effectively telling GW "Everything you do, be it price hikes, lack of FAQ's or the Bloodbowl fiasco, is fine by me...keep it up. You need not worry about satisfying your fanbase."

This is of course...ridiculous.

The reason this sort of thing will not work can only be attributed to the people that SAY it wont and refuse to jump onboard. Assuming the boycott is successful, GW may feel the pinch, they may not. However, if enough people are pessimistic about even TRYING to stand up and demand more for our dollars...we will NEVER know if something like this boycott would be successful in the first place.

Two things...

If you're not planning on jumping aboard, don't condemn the idea. This whole idea was put forward to make life better for US, the HOBBYISTS. You can only benefit. There is no benefit for repeatadly saying "it will not work". If you do/say nothing and it costs GW an extra 1000 dollars this Christmas season (not hard to imagine, 20 box sets can easily add up to 1000) perhaps that 1000 bucks would be the straw that broke the camels back and makes them sit up and take notice.

Basically, you stand to gain nothing by condemning this plan of action, but still have much to gain. Why would you specifically try to condemn this idea when you gain nothing by being pessimistic and by remaining silent you could come out a winner?

Also. If you dont buy GW product and werent planning on it anyway, then pick something up from a competitor. It doesnt bother GW so much if a non-customer continues to be a non-customer.

Come on MDG, get with the plan.

Nobody begrudges GW making money, however we do begrudge how they behave and this latest carry on is the last of many annoying things about them.

Sure Ill wait the 2 months to buy my wifes tyranid stuff. Now go and sign my petition!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:GRRR! HOW DARE THEY PROTECT THEIR IP, THE ACT OF WHICH IS A LEGAL REQUISITE IF YOU WISH TO MAINTAIN OWNERSHIP OF SAID IP!

GRRR!!! GRRRRR!!!!! AND THRICE GRRRR!

GW aren't protecting their IP in this case.

They are making a blatant attempt to coerce a third party via pressure on their own customers.

If GW would just make the Star Player figures, the whole issue would go away.

This is reminding me of the boycotts from price "adjustment"

Kilkrazy wrote:
They are making a blatant attempt to coerce a third party via pressure on their own customers.

Despicable.

ALSO, if someone does has the mailing address for JJ or anyone else to write too, would you PM it to me. Ill gladly mail the guy, possibly even numerous times lol. And maybe even a big ol box full of packaging peanuts with a link to my petition sitting on top

See, I don't see this doing anything. Why? Because too many little timmys will be buying stuff for christmas, and the effect you have is immeasurable.

If you wanted this to be successful, my advice would be to pick a time in the fortnight before christmas, and get everyone to phone in. A mass phone in. If for a fortnight before christmas, they have their phone lines clogged with people complaining, that will be noticeable. Doesn't even matter if the same people call once or twice, it'll be an effect that is felt as their sales staff have to listen to you guys listing your grievances. That'll get passed up the vine. And the longer it goes on for, the more it'll be noticed. Heck, make your boycott part of it. Tell them that you're all boycotting them over the christmas period AS WELL as complaining about anything and everything else. They're not going to hang up on you. And if they do, that's the point you call the media in, and see if you can get some bad headlines. It also gives you another complaint to air. Also spam their email inboxes during that two week period.

Hvaing done that, the next thing you do is take a handwritten letter to the local GW, and get them to forward it to GW HQ, or post it yourself if you don't have one nearby. When a wave of complaints letters hits them at the same time as their christmas lists, it'll be felt, because they have to sort through them as well.

In short, make their sales and commmunication staffs lives miserable for a fortnight in addition to a boycott. The trick is to make yourself felt! Simply abstaining will never be noticeable enough to cause any kind of change. You need cumulative effect.

Ketara wrote:
If you wanted this to be successful, my advice would be to pick a time in the fortnight before christmas, and get everyone to phone in. A mass phone in. If for a fortnight before christmas, they have their phone lines clogged with people complaining, that will be noticeable. Doesn't even matter if the same people call once or twice, it'll be an effect that is felt as their sales staff have to listen to you guys listing your grievances. That'll get passed up the vine. And the longer it goes on for, the more it'll be noticed. Heck, make your boycott part of it. Tell them that you're all boycotting them over the christmas period AS WELL as complaining about anything and everything else. They're not going to hang up on you. And if they do, that's the point you call the media in, and see if you can get some bad headlines. It also gives you another complaint to air. Also spam their email inboxes during that two week period.

Ketara , once again you amaze me . Way to think outside the box .
Guys if you really want to boycott, use Ketara's idea .

Boycott is not going to work. Financial estimates have GW making more money than every this year and even more next year. If dakka got a 1000 members not to buy anything the money made from other things such as fiction books sold in walmart and video games coming out will make that small amount look like normal market movement.

If you want to get things changed go for the stock holders or become one. They have more power with GW than the gamers. Everyone wants to rant and rave, put your money where your mouth is.

2 months is worthless. If you want to try a boycott, what till they are having a huge release like Apoc and Planetstrike. Boycott then since they need the profit because they will need to pay back the investors.

Ketara wrote:See, I don't see this doing anything. Why? Because too many little timmys will be buying stuff for christmas, and the effect you have is immeasurable.

Who knows if it will be successful? It certainly WON'T be successful if no one even tries though!

Boycotts *can* be effective, and they don't have to be universal by any means for the company concerned to be worried enough to take action.

Recent boycotts I have been aware of involved the chocolate industry and their use of slave labour in cocoa production in Africa. Both the Mars Corp and in the UK, Cadbury's rapidly altered their supply chain in response to boycotts in order to be able to claim they are now offering "slavery-free chocolate", and those boycotts barely hit the mainstream media, so for popular products like chocolate bars the actual affect on sales must have been miniscule! Yet still it had the desired impact and made the big brand names switch to ethical sources of cocoa. Anything that vaguely hints at tarnishing and devalueing a company's brand image should get the attention of the drectors. I say *should*. Of course that is assuming rationality on the part of the executives! Which is a pretty hefty assumption in the case of "fat and lazy" GW.

Damn that defeatism guys, just hold your nerdy "must buy my plastic crack" urges in check long enough to give it a go and see what happens! And there's nothing to say that you can't also send in letters as well. Object on as many fronts as you can and *something* may eventually get through to the goons in charge!

Don't forget even if you got 1000 people on board, if it gets into the media and a negative story is broadcast they will start to take note.

Pipboy101 wrote:If you want to get things changed go for the stock holders or become one. They have more power with GW than the gamers. Everyone wants to rant and rave, put your money where your mouth is.

Good idea! Use you November and December gaming budget to buy GW shares. That would be good! Two birds with one stone!

They don't have to be universal, but the fact is, if a minority wants to force through any kind of change, they MUST be as vocal as possible. That means clogging up every possible line of communication. Whilst you stay silent, they won't notice you. Why? Because you're in the minority, and you're not going out of your way to tell them about your boycott. And even if you present them with a bigass petition, they'll simply ignore it. petitions make everything too nice and neat for a company. If you want to force a change on them, cripple their communications networks over a crucial sales period. As a company, they cannot shut those down or ignore you, because there will be genuine customers mixed in with your guys stuff.

It's not defeatism, it's realism. Whilst this has been started off with the best of intentions, it's not nearly extreme enough to galvanise GW into taking any kind of action.

EDIT:- Deadshane, if you're truly serious about this, and think you can whip up enough of a following PM me and I'll give you a list of step by step instructions on how to make GW's life particularly unpleasant. I wouldn't dream of attempting this myself, as I'm only on this forum and couldn't get together enough support to make myself felt across the wargaming community. But if you think you can, or anyone else does, I can give you the tools for the job.

It's unlikely to get to the media though- on the broader scale of evil things corporations do, it's not even up there. It's still disgraceful. I think BB fans should all go and buy a copy of Grind this christmas.

Couple of items I wanted from GW for Christmas, have put them on hold for two months to join the boycott. I've got plenty of stuff needing painting

I wont be join boycott cause i need few things but ill spend more my money on warmachine!

A two month boycott will not do anything. Stop buying GW product - go play a different game or play 40K with figs from some other company. GW can keep their precious IP all to themselves.

21500+ registered users on dakka

Only half of those users spend 100 dollars less over two months because of this thread. (thats a drop in the bucket for many of us really, many of us spend MUCH more than this PER MONTH)

Cost to GW= 1,075,000

What if the Warseer community joins?
Librarium online?
40k online?
B&C?

If this plan went viral to fansites all over, the cost to GW could be significant. If we could cost them 2-3% of their yearly take because of this, do you honestly think that they "wouldnt notice or care". Yea, right.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ketara wrote: Deadshane, if you're truly serious about this, and think you can whip up enough of a following PM me and I'll give you a list of step by step instructions on how to make GW's life particularly unpleasant.......b.

This thread is actually designed to test that.

Pipboy101 wrote:Boycott is not going to work. Financial estimates have GW making more money than every this year and even more next year.

DUH... they keep rasing prices on everything all the while lowering the point value of it in it's new dex.

of course they will make more money by selling more stuff, at a higher price.


my answer to this??

http://www.flamesofwar.com/
http://privateerpress.com/

but if im REALLY in the mood for some 40k, then i look no further then.

http://www.bartertown.com/trading/
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/11.page


but when bartertown or the dakka swap shop cant give me the GW fix i need, then a break down and spend $13.25 to get ONE fething SOB W/ heavy bolter.... and then i feal like a tool.

This thread is actually designed to test that.

Interesting. So is this only the first step in a longer term plan then?

Well, I've held off on this one for some time, but I feel that now is the time for me to say this;



I'd like to preface this by saying I do not in any way object to GW protecting their Intellectual Property. It is their legal right and responsibility to do so, so I have no argument with them on that.

What I do disagree with is their heavy-handed tactics when dealing with supporters of their company and hobby. My objections stem from wayyyy back when they removed their products from online retailers as a method of better controlling the availability of discounted items. I've dealt with this a lot in the firearms industry, as many companies have "Minimum Advertised Prices" as a condition of their continued distribution to a specific store or chain. It's not hard to get around, but it does show us that certain companies (Sig Sauer for example) feel that their products must have a price-range attached to them that accurately reflects their image of quality. Whether the item sells for that is unimportant, but the illusion of quality that is created by the inflated advertised price is important. By removing their products from the various discount retailers, Games Workshop was only trying to protect their price-point and increase revenue from direct sales, but all they really achieved was to annoy the consumer by making purchases slightly more difficult. In the past 10 years, I have maybe purchased $100 worth of items directly from GW, whereas I've probably spent $6000-$8000 on products from independent retailers with at least 20% discounts.

This was the first in a number of decisions that would seem to make sense in most other retail markets. But in the wargames world, where some companies live and die on the strength of the community, I believe it has been a mistake. There has always been detractors and"haters" of everything Games Workshop, but I have noticed over the past few years, a growing backlash within the community. The utter lack of consistency in their treatment of customers, who their very existence depends upon, has been ridiculous. I know there will always be the 12 year-olds that force their weak parents to buy them whatever "toy-soldiers" they want, but the true backbone of GW's miniature business is the "hobbyist" or consistent purchaser.


Now, would the company notice a dip in their revenue as a result of a two month boycott? Probably not. In fact, at the end of those two months, they'd notice an up-swing in sales.

Would they notice a dip in revenue, coupled with hundreds of phone-calls, e-mails, and hand-written letters? Most certainly. As a publicly traded company, GW is responsible to their share-holders. If the board begins receiving reports of a boycott, especially one that appears to be far reaching and organized, they will have to pay attention. If they chose to ignore it, and there was some sort of fall-out, they can kiss their jobs good-bye.

I certainly believe, that with a level of organization, that this could be accomplished in a relatively short span of time. Considering the number of users here, on Warseer, The Miniatures Page, Tac Com, Port Maw, and B&C, you have over 200,000 people to draw from. Even a fraction of that number could have a massive impact if they showed a tiny bit of organized behavior.

Ketara or anyone else interested in taking this further can pm me or e-mail me at arklite@live.com

I'd be very interested in helping to organize whatever we can to "save" GW from itself. I enjoy this hobby, I enjoy the people, and I enjoy the miniatures and IP that GW has created. I'd hate to see all that suffer because the company makes a few bad business decisions and chooses to not listen to their customer base.


[/rant]

I'll join the boycott, to be honest I don't have much confidence in it, but I'll join for what it's worth anyway!

Games workshop's attitude has been ridiculous...

although as Arklite, so aptly said:

arklite wrote:
I'd be very interested in helping to organize whatever we can to "save" GW from itself. I enjoy this hobby, I enjoy the people, and I enjoy the miniatures and IP that GW has created. I'd hate to see all that suffer because the company makes a few bad business decisions and chooses to not listen to their customer base.

as he said, GW is ripping itself apart...

my space wolves battleforce will keep me going 4 a LONG time... even so, BOYCOTT!

Sorry Deadshane. I am needing my first gaming fix. I have an urge and i plan to feed the new addiction.

Cease

I'll bite: I join your pledge.
*I will not buy any new GW models/paints/supplies for 2 mos. All gift offers will be by Visa gift guard, paints/brushes will be privateer press. All purchase via Independent owner: Showcase comics for PA area.

My suggestion: tick your pledge on somewhere, signature etc. The starter of the pledge should request a sticky thread, keep a running of screen names. My other suggestion, to really influence you probably need to do it for more than 2 mos. Probably 3-4.

Count me in....I'm spending my cash at Corvus Belli!

I think I'll be looking to some Warmachine in the near future ^_-.

I'm in. I've never directly bought from them anyway i just go on ebay, its alot cheaper there!!

I'll continue not buying things form them :p I'm on a 3 month dry streak as it is.

Im in, and I will even throw a bone to a worthy company makeing awsome models and upgrades!

http://www.maxmini.eu/store/

Check em out!

I point out bits and conversion kits company :
http://www.chapterhousestudios.com/webshop

insaniak wrote:Here's the problem with this plan:

Deadshane1 wrote:This is Christmas, the time of year they count on to make some money off of us fools that dont drop them like a bad habit like they deserve.

Unless things have changed significantly in the last few years, GW's sales are predominantly stable year-round. Whilst Christmas sees a slight increase in sales, from what I've read in their financials in the past, it's nowhere near the sort of boost that you see in many other retail fields, and is not something that they rely on for anything.

I skimmed through their most recent annual summery and couldn't find anything about holiday specific sales. Do you have a source?

Pipboy and ketara really have the right idea here. Buying stocks in GW only increases the value of your opinion. Sending a bunch of letters while other people send wishlists is a good way to make that opinion heard. I'll write GW a letter and maybe an e-mail or two. As for the boycott, I buy off ebay on the rare occasion I have money and I think drowning GW in mail and phone calls will be more effective. Once again though, buying parts of the company is probably the most effective thing you can do.

I worked for an indy store selling GW stuff many many years ago and it always went mad in Christmas and just after when folks had their Christmas money to spend.

I would not ask people to hold off on buying GW stuff, I would ask that they by something else instead from their friendly local stockist or online.

Been considering Warmachine or Hordes? Try it out!
The AT-43 game? or perhaps the AT-43 minis as replacements for certain parts of a 40k army?

Take that Christmas money and treat yourself to something from a company that doesn't gak on it's own fanbase. Exercise your rights as a consumer. Deny GW your money.

Although I fully support this course of action, I severley doubt it will have the desired effect.

Personally, I thikn the best way forward is for the individuals who find issue with GW operating practice to simply support over up and coming companies.

I know this has been said a million times before, but trying to change GW to suit your ideal of how the company should run is pointless.

However, I wish this endeavour great success!

Kilkrazy wrote:GW have no legal right to stop Impact Miniatures making Special Player figures for Blood Bowl. GW do not own IP to protect in the Special Characters.

That would be for a court of law to decide.

GW can certainly, successfully challenge Impact for using their "Blood Bowl" trademark without license. They've shut down larger projects than that, and those projects didn't even say "Warhammer"...

*cough* DreamForge *cough*

I think a boycott, however well intended, is unlikely to communicate the message you want GW to hear. They may see a drop in revenue but are likely to attribute to many other things before "the great Christmas boycott of '09" enters their thinking. If you want them to understand what you are upset about by all means stop buying their product, but each of you write them a formal, respectfully worded letter explaining why you are doing it. No petitions, actually take the time to explain to them why you have specifically had enough and then back it up by spending your money elsewhere. That's a campaign that might actually get somewhere. While not interested in joining a boycott I am tempted to write them a letter just to let them know about some of their actions that do bug me, some of their long-term issues that while I'm not completely fed up with do detract from my enjoyment of their products.

Think about it, if their corporate offices received a few thousand letters over this wouldn't that give them a clearer view of what their customer base felt than some nebulous drop in sales that might easily be attributed to other factors that can affect sales?

RanTheCid wrote:A two month boycott will not do anything.

Sure it will. It will give GW the best January / February sales they've seen this decade!

Go boycott!

OK everyone that is saying that they will not be buying from GW but getting stuff from 3rd party retailers and ebay is not doing anything. You buy from the retailer for 15 to 20 percent off. OK it is not directly from GW, but it is like buying from your FLGS. They get it for 20% off, you buy their stock, they take that money and reorder more from GW to replace what you bought.

Boycott has to be of all sales, direct or indirect.

jabbakahut wrote:I skimmed through their most recent annual summery and couldn't find anything about holiday specific sales. Do you have a source?

I haven't bothered reading their financials for the last couple of years. But it was something mentioned in there a few years back. Kirby mentioning that the Christmas period wasn't huge, but that was to be expected as hobbies tend to be relatively unaffected by seasonal trends.

For what it's worth, the games store I worked at a few years back said more or less the same thing.

Deadshane1 wrote:If you condemn this idea, you are effectively telling GW "Everything you do, be it price hikes, lack of FAQ's or the Bloodbowl fiasco, is fine by me...keep it up. You need not worry about satisfying your fanbase."

Not at all. Anyone 'condemning' (I don't think anyone actually is, but I'll assume the hyperbole is aimed at those saying it won't work) this idea is simply saying that it's not the best way of getting the message across.

However, if enough people are pessimistic about even TRYING to stand up and demand more for our dollars...we will NEVER know if something like this boycott would be successful in the first place.

We can have a fair idea of how successful it will be, based on the fact that someone has tried to organise one of these about every 6 months for the last 10 years...


However, I'm not condemning the idea. If it's what you feel you need to do, go to town. All I'm saying is don't get your hopes up about it actually accomplishing anything, because past experience strongly suggests that it wont.

insaniak wrote:We can have a fair idea of how successful it will be, based on the fact that someone has tried to organise one of these about every 6 months for the last 10 years...

Well, back when I was tight on cash, I went a few years without buying any GW stuff. And before I got into 40k, I guess I went a couple decades before buying any GW stuff. GW didn't seem to suffer much.

But hey, maybe this time will be different?

After all, it's shifting a handful of (direct) sales from Nov/Dec to Jan/Feb, so that'll definitely get the point across to GW!

Assuming their bean counters even notice.

And that would be a very interesting question to ask a GW insider in March, whether they even noticed that the Intarwebz were afury and boycotting their product. If I were a GW shareholder, I'd definitely want to ask that question at their Q1 shareholder meeting.

After all, there's nothing worse than somebody not even knowing that you're boycotting them.

*writing this after reading page 1*

I'm in. I rarely spend money on any GW stuff these days with the exception of new rulebooks. I still have so much stuff lying around, it's not a problem for me.
I also agree on writing a letter.

One thing though: a friend of mine, who used to own the local non-GW store before it closed down, said he didn't feel much sales-improvement over christmas from GW articles anyway. It just starts in January, because a lot of players just go with money or gift-certificates for X-mas.

I hate to bring it to you all, but GW is not even going to notice a bunch of online people not buying anything for 2 months.

This is a completely useless effort.

Im not too sure howbadly you guys want to get your "message" to GW ,
but if you really really want to make an impact easily without making harrassing phone calls to mail order,
here is another method that will make GW cry.

When Dec Tyranids come out , everyone go buy $1000 worth of Tyranid items. By the time they restock after few weeks ,
do it again . If they run out of Tyranids in shop , go with... AOBR sets.

On Dec 26th, RETURN ALL the $1000 things you bought to the shop.

Deadshane1 wrote:21500+ registered users on dakka

Only half of those users spend 100 dollars less over two months because of this thread. (thats a drop in the bucket for many of us really, many of us spend MUCH more than this PER MONTH)

Cost to GW= 1,075,000

What if the Warseer community joins?
Librarium online?
40k online?
B&C?

If this plan went viral to fansites all over, the cost to GW could be significant. If we could cost them 2-3% of their yearly take because of this, do you honestly think that they "wouldnt notice or care". Yea, right.

You know, to take this idea in a slightly different direction...why do people come to sites like Dakka, Warseer, Librarium, 40k Online, B&C? I think a large part of it boils down to these sites providing inspiration to players to participate in the hobby. What if you were able to get the folks that run each of these boards to lock all of their GW-related sections down. Any threads related to GW get locked down. Draconian? Yes. Non-democratic? Yes. But if you can get the admins of these sites on board, and stop all GW-related discussion, I imagine that would make a big point to GW. Sure, people can bail and go to other forums. But if you lock down the biggest ones, it'll take awhile before the folks that don't want to take part can reconstitute a community elsewere. Will it be a hardship on the players who don't want to boycott? Yep, sure will. Does that translate into hardship for GW? It can.

Seems to me that the chokepoint for the online community is the forums themselves. If you can convince the admins of them to participate, I think you've found yourself the leverage to get done what you want.

I can take a boycott or leave it. I mean, I'm pissed about GW's decision to send a C&D to fumbbl.com - it was playing Java Bowl via fumbbl recently that got me inspired to buy new minis to make new Blood Bowl teams to give to a friend so that he could recruit others to play. And now GW does this? I was wondering the other day how it was that VASSAL could get a C&D, but not fumbbl. Now I know. I understand GW wanting to sell more copies of their new BB video game, but this just seems dicked. I've survived without GW before and I can do it again. It's not that hard.

Yeah, your FLGS will *love* you for duping $1k worth of stock back in their lap...

Do it!

Not.

I'm not joining in, because it's pointless. GW isn't going to notice a few whiny people online not buying their stuff. They still have plenty of customers, myself included.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:Im not too sure howbadly you guys want to get your "message" to GW ,
but if you really really want to make an impact easily without making harrassing phone calls to mail order,
here is another method that will make GW cry.

When Dec Tyranids come out , everyone go buy $1000 worth of Tyranid items. By the time they restock after few weeks ,
do it again . If they run out of Tyranids in shop , go with... AOBR sets.

On Dec 26th, RETURN ALL the $1000 things you bought to the shop.

Luna, nobody is going to be stupid enough to blow that much money on GW products and get it refunded. That's a foolish idea, and if you do that you're just castrating yourself financially for a while.

And Tyranids aren't due until January, BTW.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yeah, your FLGS will *love* you for duping $1k worth of stock back in their lap...

Do it!

Not.

They have no hassle no question return policy! ( aslong as you have receipt )
I never said it'll be playing nice lol ( i thought thats the point of this thread :x )

Can you imagine during Dec , their sales on magically sky rocket? and when they are happy celebrating + trying to figure out what made the boost in sales
+ frenziedly restocking etc etc ,

then on Christmas they have on average 20 box worth of tyranid Per Person , been returned into the store?.

Cheese Elemental wrote:
Luna, nobody is going to be stupid enough to blow that much money on GW products and get it refunded. That's a foolish idea, and if you do that you're just castrating yourself financially for a while.

Its not "blowing money" as you'll be 100% refunded . Castrating myself? if you have w/e amount of money sitting in your bank , let it out for a walk for a month. For a greater good cause!

Only half of those users spend 100 dollars less over two months because of this thread. (thats a drop in the bucket for many of us really, many of us spend MUCH more than this PER MONTH)

Im about to start a new army
Infact, an apoc daemon army lol, so i guess it can wait.

Count me in.

They're the least-responsive company I've ever seen...reminds me of the famous Henry Ford quote when he was told that his customers wanted the option of different colors on the Model T:

"They can have any color they want, as long as it's black."

I applaud your efforts, and I will join in your boycott, but the truth is that GW will most likely just chalk up any dip in sales to the effects of the global recession.

Deadshane1 wrote:21500+ registered users on dakka

Only half of those users spend 100 dollars less over two months because of this thread. (thats a drop in the bucket for many of us really, many of us spend MUCH more than this PER MONTH)

Yeah, I'm sure 10.750 Dakka users are going to join this....

Kilkrazy wrote:

Nurgleboy77 wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:I remember the "don't buy gas on Tuesday boycott". Yeah, that had a huge impact on gas prices. I mean when that happened gas suddenly fell to 10 cents per gallon....errr wait. It didn't. It just ended up in people buying gas that day because they realized to wait another day would have meant sitting alongside the road somewhere.

Hmm.

I don't think I'll boycott GW. I'm too addicted to their miniatures and nobody in my group is interested in another system and I usually order through Neal so if I don't buy GW products than Neal loses my money, therefore Neal loses money.

Naw, I don't think I'll be in.

Right there with ya, FW.

This is pretty silly. Sounds to me liek GW is protecting itself by trying to stop other companies making models of their IP. As The Iak said, they're just asking them to stop infringing not "shutting them down".

I don't seek to persuade you either way. As a moderator I am not going to argue for or against a boycott.

However I would like to correct the misconception about what GW are doing which has made people angry.

GW have no legal right to stop Impact Miniatures making Special Player figures for Blood Bowl. GW do not own IP to protect in the Special Characters.
GW do not produce the figures for several of the Special Players already in the rules, and these are the ones that Impact are covering.
Rather than make figures themselves, GW has threatened to delete all Special Players from the 6th edition rules, which are ready to be released.

I am sure you will understand why this makes fans of the game angry.

I'd honestly suggest that fans of Blood Bowl be more angry with themselves for continuing to be a punching bag.

Dead game. Give it up.

Pro-tip: If it's not 40K, WFB or LotR, GW won't be supporting it in 6 months. And Blood Bowls 6 Months were up over 10 years ago.

Yeah, good luck with that. I don't think a few forumgoers can make a big dent in sales. Except maybe HBMC... but then Maelstrom would go bankrupt too.
I haven't bought anything from GW since the Stompa, so whatever.

warpcrafter wrote:I'm in. I just ordered 80 Warzone troops from Prince August. You can't beat getting your bulk troops for $0.50 each. They also need to be told that they're being boycotted. I'm gonna send a letter to them and tell them what this is being done. I want a better Chaos Codex!!!

Uh... can you let me know if you find a glue that bonds these ?

If you look at the GW finanical report they had a 5% increase from profits on discontinued product. Returning stuff to the FLGS will not do anything. Also, returning it to GW themselves will do nothing since that is considered a tax write off as a cost of doing business.

TBD wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:21500+ registered users on dakka

Only half of those users spend 100 dollars less over two months because of this thread. (thats a drop in the bucket for many of us really, many of us spend MUCH more than this PER MONTH)

Yeah, I'm sure 10.750 Dakka users are going to join this....

Presuming they did...

Per the spending poll, the typical Dakka user spends a grand total of $600 on wargaming per year. That's about $50 per month. If you factor GW as the bulk of the spend, count them as $40 GW spend per month. So the $100 for two months isn't a bad estimate, considering higher holiday spend, but it's probably on the high side overall

The 50% uptake, for 10,000 users is well off. It discounts inactive users and lurker types. Try a 5% update, for 1000 users and it's probably more realistic. So the potential "boycott" (delay, really) is $100,000 USD. I'm not sure this would be noticable during the holiday sales period.


Of course, the median Dakka user spends $100 to $500 total per year, so it's more like $250 to $300, instead of $600. That means we're talking $20 to $25 per month, and perhaps $50 for the holiday season, for a grand total of perhaps $50k. Drop in the bucket, folks.

I don't really consider Dakka as the community, though it is a large one. I mean, TMP averages over 5000 hits per hour, with 23,000 registered users.

And again, organization would certainly be the key. Obviously a company of this size could disregard various isolated attempts at achieving change. But consider the possibility if they are faced with just 3000 or so people that are disgruntled. Numbers of that kind cannot just be written off, and to do so would be the height of arrogance and foolishness.

3,000 users x $50? Oohhh... $150k. I think GW could care less.

tbh, this isnt ever gunna happen. not to that extent anyway, remember, new kids are finding warhammer and getting their parents to spend serious amounts on it anyway..

I should boycott McDonalds, you know because it isn't fair that I can't bring my Burger King into their store.

How dare they protect their business model?

Ow, crap. I just knee-jerked so hard I tore an ACL.

If 25 people who were otherwise going to spend join this and actually stick to it that would probably be a lot.

Now what would be a cool idea: those people who really care so much about this could travel to Nottinghamshire and go on a hungerstrike in front of GW headquarters, yelling slogans every morning when Jervis and the lads arrive for work?

Put it on Youtube to give it some exposure.

Fateweaver wrote:I should boycott McDonalds, you know because it isn't fair that I can't bring my Burger King into their store.

How dare they protect their business model?

Ow, crap. I just knee-jerked so hard I tore an ACL.

I had plans for my new SW as well as IG and blood bowl as well of all things.

I'm in Shane.

@ the Mods

Can we put all the C&D under one title? This is like the 5th C&D post.

Cheers

The money really isn't an issue, though $150k for them is roughly .15% of last years revenue, which is nothing to laugh at.

In point of fact, my initial post states the futility of boycotting them for two months, as they would then experience an up-swing in sales at the end, compensating for any prior losses.

That said, if you object to their business practices in any way, shape, or form, why would you not try and change them? Why continue to be overcharged and marginalized by a company that exists at your sufferance? No retailer in their right mind would out-and-out ignore a large block of their consistent customers. Not only would you lose revenue from their future purchases, but you create a force that will try to dissuade others from purchasing.

Arklite wrote:And again, organization would certainly be the key. Obviously a company of this size could disregard various isolated attempts at achieving change. But consider the possibility if they are faced with just 3000 or so people that are disgruntled. Numbers of that kind cannot just be written off, and to do so would be the height of arrogance and foolishness.

3000 people, to a company the size of GW, are a drop in a bucket. Particularly since, if they're established enough gamers to be upset about GW cracking down on IP infringement on Blood Bowl sites, chances are they're not GW's target market in the first place.

GW are well aware that large numbers of veterans are unhappy with the way they do business. They're well aware that large numbers of veterans sooner or later have enough and leave.

They don't care. Because veterans aren't where they consider the bulk of the money to come from. Sure, some veterans spend regularly and in reasonable amounts. But the majority don't.

GW are far more interested in the new guy who wanders in and lays down a wad of cash on a starter set and an army, who spends up big for the first 6 months or so and then wanders off, quite possibly never to return because he loses interest. To be replaced by the next new guy.

That's their target market, and that (at least according to whatever they pass off as market research) is where the bulk of their sales come from.

And that target market isn't going to be the least bit affected by an internet-organised boycott.

Fateweaver wrote:Ow, crap. I just knee-jerked so hard I tore an ACL.

Ha!

Thanks, I needed a laugh in this.

I'm planning on tripling my purchases over the next two months, but whatever...

I do want to post in support of Mean Green Stompa's idea. Buy from their competitors. Take the next two months to learn and promote a new game. Maybe you'll find a game you like better, maybe not, but stronger competition vs. GW will have better long-term consequences than simply a limited boycott. AT-43 and WarMachine are two games that have forced GW to work just a little harder, so increasing their sales will have a stronger measurable impact than a 1% dip in GW sales that can be blamed on the economy.

Losing sales will not have an impact on GW. Losing market share to their competitors? That's when publicly-traded companies fire their CEOs and review their practices from the top down.

I should boycott McDonalds, you know because it isn't fair that I can't bring my Burger King into their store.

How dare they protect their business model?

Ow, crap. I just knee-jerked so hard I tore an ACL.

And I'm boycotting Burger King for the same reason!

I've played Blood Bowl for about 10 years and I've never heard/visited of any of these sites getting C+D's and I get by just fine, so I can't really sympathize with the issue. My local GW store always has someone down to play Specialist Games or my club is running a tourney/campaign at said GW store. BFG/Mordheim/BB are all actually fairly popular in my area. Saying GW doesn't support Specialists games is way off the mark, you'd know that if you are lucky enough to have a GW store or better yet a Battle Bunker, in your area.

I suspect most people posting are just jumping on the GW bash train simply because its the flavor of the month complaint and there is no forthcoming Codex/Army Book to lament over. Upcoming rumors of overpowered/underpowered Tyranid/Beastmen books will squash this little ragefest.

I just took the call for a Boycott over to the BOLS Lounge. Gonna check back later to see if there's any reaction. It won't generate much effect, I'm sure, since that forum never really took off.

How many boycotts have there been this year? Only remember the Space Hulk one.

Good luck to ya'll, GW's got me addicted to their plastic and pewter crack. Unfortunately for the OP and Co. this will likely only further cement GW HQ's negative view on the forum community.

ignoring the detractors and those that KNOW they can't stop their addiction, i'm with ya on this one.

I was fence stitting until this: http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2009/11/17/31483


If they're going to tell me that I HAVE to buy their minis or else?

Christ, I get better terms on loans from my Godfather.

Sorry. I didn't feel like reading 5 pages about a pointless thread, so I'm just going to reply to the OP. That's where all the nonsense started anyway.

Deadshane1 wrote:GW just sent another C&D to Fumbbl.com.

I fail to see where this is a problem. See next reply.

Deadshane1 wrote:MANY people are upset somehow by GW's heavy hand. We should all understand that they have to protect their IP, but in this case fumbbl has been around for some 10+ years.

Heavy hand? Seriously? GW created a brilliant game and they want to protect their IP, so let's boycott their "heavy-handed" ways.

You yourself said that, while you play the board game, you play at fumbbl.com, too. Why should GW allow this java-based BB client to exist when it is causing them to lose money? This is the most stupid arguement ever. GW just released a BB game for the PC through Cyanide. It's called "Blood Bowl" in case you haven't heard of it. Did you purchase a copy of the new BB game?

No?

I thought not. Why should you purchase it when you can play it for free at fumbbl.com, right? Who cares if it has gak graphics. The game still plays like the board game, but it's FREE! The fact that it has been around for 10+ years doesn't mean gak. Until about a year ago, fumbbl.com wasn't conflicting with anything GW had going on. In fact, fumbbl.com and GW were a symbiotic relationship, both feeding one anothers' existence. Now that GW has a BB game out, fumbbl.com is eating into their possible profit margins. As such, they are now a problem that GW has EVERY RIGHT to ask to shut down.

Look at it this way, you (fumbble.com) and your best friend (GW) have been bros for 10-12 years. You went to school together, drank massive amounts of beer, partied your asses off. Now, he suddenly starts seriously dating some chick (Cyanide) and they move in together and have a kid on the way (new BB pc game). That dynamic between you and the dude has changed forever. The dude (assuming he's a real man) will cut you out completely to focus his attentions on the newly created child that he is forever blood-bonded to.

Deadshane1 wrote:They specifically state that you MUST own the game to play there.

lol... This OBVIOUSLY qualifies them as exempt to the GW IP copyrights.
A) I'm sure that everyone who plays at fumbbl.com has a copy of the board game.
B) I'm sure that fumbbl.com verifies that every single registered player has a copy of the board game before allowing them to d/l the program and play.

The fact that you even uttered this comment as a qualifier for why GW is wrong for shutting down fumbbl.com is ludicrous.
It's like trying to sell your WoW account on ebay. While the account is in your name (financially responsible) all content, items, money, characters, etc. are still property of Blizzard Entertainment. To get around this, people on ebay tried to say, "All content is property of Blizzard. You are paying me for the TIME I spent getting the characters where they are."

People do this while selling antiques and stuff all the time, too. You take an old furniture item to an antique shop and tell them some long story about how your wife's mother's mother's mother had it made when they finshed their long trek from Delaware to Oregon during the manifest destiny land-grab in the 1800's.
The dealer doesn't give a rat's ass if your great-great uncle Chuck built the damned item himself. It isn't worth any more money if the dealer finds out that great-great uncle Chuck gnawed the trees down to make this furniture with his own teeth.
It's worth money depending on how old it is, what condition it's in and, most importantly, if the dealer feels he can resell it at a profit. That's it.


Stating that players MUST own the game before playing there (I just can't help laughing at the idiocy of this statement... lmao) doesn't mean dick.



Go buy Cyanide's Blood Bowl for PC and let fumbbl.com go the way of the dinosaurs. It sucks, it's ugly, and it's outdated. Quit being a cheapass and spend $50 on a VASTLY superior pc Blood Bowl.


Now then, if you want to start another mindless mob and picket GW for their nonsensical and unreasonable price hikes, count me in.





Ghidorah

Most of the people claiming this is irrelevant and no one will gain anything from it... dont seem to understand something subtle but that makes ALL the diference...

-Competiton will gain these "few" pennies and as such will have more money power to invest in better things for us...because there all our pennies makes the diference
- I will personally gain from this since I will dig further into other games/projects/companies... and who knows how many of us will find something so much better that we will never look back again?

What I'm saying is that a boicott is not only measured by what GW accountans see on the balance sheet. Theres much more to this.

Ghidorah wrote:
Go buy Cyanide's Blood Bowl for PC and let fumbbl.com go the way of the dinosaurs. It sucks, it's ugly, and it's outdated. Quit being a cheapass and spend $50 on a VASTLY superior pc Blood Bowl.
Now then, if you want to start another mindless mob and picket GW for their nonsensical and unreasonable price hikes, count me in.

I second the unreasonable price hike bit, but Ghiddy, baby, have you PLAYED Cyanide's Bug Bowl??? Ugly, outdated, yes, but I can't say I've ever seen it CTD.

Ghidorah wrote:Sorry. I didn't feel like reading 5 pages about a pointless thread, so I'm just going to reply to the OP. That's where all the nonsense started anyway.

Deadshane1 wrote:GW just sent another C&D to Fumbbl.com.

I fail to see where this is a problem. See next reply.

Deadshane1 wrote:MANY people are upset somehow by GW's heavy hand. We should all understand that they have to protect their IP, but in this case fumbbl has been around for some 10+ years.

Heavy hand? Seriously? GW created a brilliant game and they want to protect their IP, so let's boycott their "heavy-handed" ways.

You yourself said that, while you play the board game, you play at fumbbl.com, too. Why should GW allow this java-based BB client to exist when it is causing them to lose money? This is the most stupid arguement ever. GW just released a BB game for the PC through Cyanide. It's called "Blood Bowl" in case you haven't heard of it. Did you purchase a copy of the new BB game?

No?

I thought not. Why should you purchase it when you can play it for free at fumbbl.com, right? Who cares if it has gak graphics. The game still plays like the board game, but it's FREE! The fact that it has been around for 10+ years doesn't mean gak. Until about a year ago, fumbbl.com wasn't conflicting with anything GW had going on. In fact, fumbbl.com and GW were a symbiotic relationship, both feeding one anothers' existence. Now that GW has a BB game out, fumbbl.com is eating into their possible profit margins. As such, they are now a problem that GW has EVERY RIGHT to ask to shut down.

Look at it this way, you (fumbble.com) and your best friend (GW) have been bros for 10-12 years. You went to school together, drank massive amounts of beer, partied your asses off. Now, he suddenly starts seriously dating some chick (Cyanide) and they move in together and have a kid on the way (new BB pc game). That dynamic between you and the dude has changed forever. The dude (assuming he's a real man) will cut you out completely to focus his attentions on the newly created child that he is forever blood-bonded to.

Deadshane1 wrote:They specifically state that you MUST own the game to play there.

lol... This OBVIOUSLY qualifies them as exempt to the GW IP copyrights.
A) I'm sure that everyone who plays at fumbbl.com has a copy of the board game.
B) I'm sure that fumbbl.com verifies that every single registered player has a copy of the board game before allowing them to d/l the program and play.

The fact that you even uttered this comment as a qualifier for why GW is wrong for shutting down fumbbl.com is ludicrous.
It's like trying to sell your WoW account on ebay. While the account is in your name (financially responsible) all content, items, money, characters, etc. are still property of Blizzard Entertainment. To get around this, people on ebay tried to say, "All content is property of Blizzard. You are paying me for the TIME I spent getting the characters where they are."

People do this while selling antiques and stuff all the time, too. You take an old furniture item to an antique shop and tell them some long story about how your wife's mother's mother's mother had it made when they finshed their long trek from Delaware to Oregon during the manifest destiny land-grab in the 1800's.
The dealer doesn't give a rat's ass if your great-great uncle Chuck built the damned item himself. It isn't worth any more money if the dealer finds out that great-great uncle Chuck gnawed the trees down to make this furniture with his own teeth.
It's worth money depending on how old it is, what condition it's in and, most importantly, if the dealer feels he can resell it at a profit. That's it.


Stating that players MUST own the game before playing there (I just can't help laughing at the idiocy of this statement... lmao) doesn't mean dick.



Go buy Cyanide's Blood Bowl for PC and let fumbbl.com go the way of the dinosaurs. It sucks, it's ugly, and it's outdated. Quit being a cheapass and spend $50 on a VASTLY superior pc Blood Bowl.


Now then, if you want to start another mindless mob and picket GW for their nonsensical and unreasonable price hikes, count me in.





Ghidorah

I agree with this. Most of you have no idea what it takes to run a company, yet you feel you can be Monday morning quarterbacks. How many of you have degrees in business or have actually ran one that does as much business as GW? Honestly if you just complain and offer little no solution other than "WHINE WHINE WHINE make stuff cheaper WHINE WHINE WHINE" do you think anyone will take you seriously? I for one think GW has gotten much better as a company, their models are only becoming more amazing and more involved. The rules for their games are getting better too. I can't wait to spend money on my new Skaven army.

Oh and one more thing. This is a hobby. If you don't like the prices or don't like the company then quit. No one is forcing you to play this HOBBY (read not essential). If you want to be all gung ho about the cost of something, try the price of food or gas. Care about something that actually makes a difference.

This thread makes me laugh so much.

I know...enough people in the world shoud boycott Coca-cola to make them suffer a 1% loss for 2 months and maybe prices of Coca cola and Dr. Pepper will go down.

Yeah, stick it to the Coca-Cola overlords!!!

BaronIveagh wrote:...but Ghiddy, baby, have you PLAYED Cyanide's Bug Bowl???

Yessir. I own it and I am currently playing four campaigns simultaneously. Dwarfs, Lizzys, Chaos, and Wood Elves. I have an online campaign set up and ready to go, but haven't found enough people playing the pc version to join up yet. I want it to be made up of people we know as much as possible.

It has a few bugs, yes, but nothing that degrades the game. Some graphical glitches here and there, but ALLLLLL software is buggy on release. Heck, even GW's (and most other company's) tabletop rules are "buggy" upon release. That's why we have erratas and faqs. They are the equivalent of patches in pc games.

Other than the minor Cyanide BB bugs (which they do patch and fix), it is a fantastic game. The graphics are beautiful, most of the sound effects are exactly what I imagine them to be, and it's a FAITHFUL reproduction of the BB LRB.


As an aside, you said, "Ghiddy, baby" to me... Not sure how that makes me feel...



Ghidorah

Fateweaver wrote:This thread makes me laugh so much.

I know...enough people in the world shoud boycott Coca-cola to make them suffer a 1% loss for 2 months and maybe prices of Coca cola and Dr. Pepper will go down.

Yeah, stick it to the Coca-Cola overlords!!!

Here is an idea, don't like the thread? Don't post in it. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and makeing you read it.

Also after a quick search it looks like BOLS already took the topic down.

Elitist Jerk wrote:I agree with this. Most of you have no idea what it takes to run a company, yet you feel you can be Monday morning quarterbacks. How many of you have degrees in business or have actually ran one that does as much business as GW? Honestly if you just complain and offer little no solution other than "WHINE WHINE WHINE make stuff cheaper WHINE WHINE WHINE" do you think anyone will take you seriously? I for one think GW has gotten much better as a company, their models are only becoming more amazing and more involved. The rules for their games are getting better too. I can't wait to spend money on my new Skaven army.

Oh and one more thing. This is a hobby. If you don't like the prices or don't like the company then quit. No one is forcing you to play this HOBBY (read not essential). If you want to be all gung ho about the cost of something, try the price of food or gas. Care about something that actually makes a difference.

Wow, what an amazing pair of lips you have that on your very first post you can kiss GW ass AND irritate me at the same time!

Achem: I do know something about business. I won't toot my own horn, due to non-disclosure.

Unless GW's suppliers of raw materials have increased their costs, (can't say I've heard of the price of tin, lead, or plastic rising THAT much) the only way the price hike was necessary is if they substantially increased wages. I can't say I've heard of that, either. So, in effect, GW is probably raising their prices to see what the market will bare. This is a standard business practice in most companies, but due to the complex interaction of GW's IP, the hamfisted approach that legal seems to be taking, and the general feeling that customers have been somehow cheated, this is a very, very poor PR move and likely to see some sort of backlash.

Elitist Jerk wrote: Oh and one more thing. This is a hobby. If you don't like the prices or don't like the company then quit. No one is forcing you to play this HOBBY (read not essential). If you want to be all gung ho about the cost of something, try the price of food or gas. Care about something that actually makes a difference.

Well, while there is some logic in your statement, you seem to forget some basic truths, based on how much people spend on their hobbies, its probably one of the most important aspects of an individuals life. The price of food and gas, is to s certain extent, out of our hands...the fact that we need them is beside the point, in those areas we are a captive audience! However, people don't want to be held captive over, what is for some, the final area of freedom!

Hence the bad feeling.

That and some of us are tired of paying large amounts of money on an army only to have GW nerf them into non-competitiveness or squatted all together.

I know for me I have 3 full armies that are no longer even playable collecting dust on my shelf (LATD, IG AC, Pure Harly) plus one that is sitting till the next dex comes out in the hopes that the army flavor will come back. (CSM)

Elitist Jerk wrote:

Ghidorah wrote:Sorry. I didn't feel like reading 5 pages about a pointless thread, so I'm just going to reply to the OP. That's where all the nonsense started anyway.

Deadshane1 wrote:GW just sent another C&D to Fumbbl.com.

I fail to see where this is a problem. See next reply.

Deadshane1 wrote:MANY people are upset somehow by GW's heavy hand. We should all understand that they have to protect their IP, but in this case fumbbl has been around for some 10+ years.

Heavy hand? Seriously? GW created a brilliant game and they want to protect their IP, so let's boycott their "heavy-handed" ways.

You yourself said that, while you play the board game, you play at fumbbl.com, too. Why should GW allow this java-based BB client to exist when it is causing them to lose money? This is the most stupid arguement ever. GW just released a BB game for the PC through Cyanide. It's called "Blood Bowl" in case you haven't heard of it. Did you purchase a copy of the new BB game?

No?

I thought not. Why should you purchase it when you can play it for free at fumbbl.com, right? Who cares if it has gak graphics. The game still plays like the board game, but it's FREE! The fact that it has been around for 10+ years doesn't mean gak. Until about a year ago, fumbbl.com wasn't conflicting with anything GW had going on. In fact, fumbbl.com and GW were a symbiotic relationship, both feeding one anothers' existence. Now that GW has a BB game out, fumbbl.com is eating into their possible profit margins. As such, they are now a problem that GW has EVERY RIGHT to ask to shut down.

Look at it this way, you (fumbble.com) and your best friend (GW) have been bros for 10-12 years. You went to school together, drank massive amounts of beer, partied your asses off. Now, he suddenly starts seriously dating some chick (Cyanide) and they move in together and have a kid on the way (new BB pc game). That dynamic between you and the dude has changed forever. The dude (assuming he's a real man) will cut you out completely to focus his attentions on the newly created child that he is forever blood-bonded to.

Deadshane1 wrote:They specifically state that you MUST own the game to play there.

lol... This OBVIOUSLY qualifies them as exempt to the GW IP copyrights.
A) I'm sure that everyone who plays at fumbbl.com has a copy of the board game.
B) I'm sure that fumbbl.com verifies that every single registered player has a copy of the board game before allowing them to d/l the program and play.

The fact that you even uttered this comment as a qualifier for why GW is wrong for shutting down fumbbl.com is ludicrous.
It's like trying to sell your WoW account on ebay. While the account is in your name (financially responsible) all content, items, money, characters, etc. are still property of Blizzard Entertainment. To get around this, people on ebay tried to say, "All content is property of Blizzard. You are paying me for the TIME I spent getting the characters where they are."

People do this while selling antiques and stuff all the time, too. You take an old furniture item to an antique shop and tell them some long story about how your wife's mother's mother's mother had it made when they finshed their long trek from Delaware to Oregon during the manifest destiny land-grab in the 1800's.
The dealer doesn't give a rat's ass if your great-great uncle Chuck built the damned item himself. It isn't worth any more money if the dealer finds out that great-great uncle Chuck gnawed the trees down to make this furniture with his own teeth.
It's worth money depending on how old it is, what condition it's in and, most importantly, if the dealer feels he can resell it at a profit. That's it.


Stating that players MUST own the game before playing there (I just can't help laughing at the idiocy of this statement... lmao) doesn't mean dick.



Go buy Cyanide's Blood Bowl for PC and let fumbbl.com go the way of the dinosaurs. It sucks, it's ugly, and it's outdated. Quit being a cheapass and spend $50 on a VASTLY superior pc Blood Bowl.


Now then, if you want to start another mindless mob and picket GW for their nonsensical and unreasonable price hikes, count me in.





Ghidorah

I agree with this. Most of you have no idea what it takes to run a company, yet you feel you can be Monday morning quarterbacks. How many of you have degrees in business or have actually ran one that does as much business as GW? Honestly if you just complain and offer little no solution other than "WHINE WHINE WHINE make stuff cheaper WHINE WHINE WHINE" do you think anyone will take you seriously? I for one think GW has gotten much better as a company, their models are only becoming more amazing and more involved. The rules for their games are getting better too. I can't wait to spend money on my new Skaven army.

Oh and one more thing. This is a hobby. If you don't like the prices or don't like the company then quit. No one is forcing you to play this HOBBY (read not essential). If you want to be all gung ho about the cost of something, try the price of food or gas. Care about something that actually makes a difference.

You win the award for the most descriptive username. Now do us all a favor and go away.

warpcrafter wrote:You win the award for the most descriptive username. Now do us all a favor and go away.

So basically it is: "I don't like your opinion, so go away".

The political leaders of China and Cuba approve of this message

Hey Elitist Jerk , may i say something?
You say we care about pointless things ... yet arnt you the one that care enough to read this thread + make an account just tell us your opinion?

Double standard mister :x

Thing is The only way to really hurt GW is to go to a completely new game system.



As you can see that is difficult haha.

i was thinking the same thing luna...


while it seems like this kinda thing could really gain momentum fast, it seems like people are wayyy to soft to be able to keep it for 2 months...

This thread's wandering rather close to the line marked 'Locking and Handing Out Suspensions: Queue Here'

Let's stick with the topic at hand, and lay off the personal attacks, can we?

For those that don't know, GW legal has responded to this whole C&D situation with a fairly honest and cordial letter that spells it out clearly that they HAVE to protect their IP. Their response pretty much covered all the bases of what they've done and why. If you haven't read it, I suggest you do:

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2009/11/09/31255#more-31255

If that doesn't make it clear for you, nothing will. Pay good attention to the sencond to last sentence, which conflicts with what all of this is about = "Big bad GW shutting down fansites".

Like I said earlier, most are just jumping on the GWbash train solely because its something new to complain about and allows them to pretend to be trademark attornies or business experts.

Also, desist is spelled wrong in the title of this thread. Thats been annoying me all day.

Shaman wrote:Thing is The only way to really hurt GW is to go to a completely new game system.



As you can see that is difficult haha.

Marneus Karchev!

NELS1031 wrote:For those that don't know, GW legal has responded to this whole C&D situation with a fairly honest and cordial letter that spells it out clearly that they HAVE to protect their IP. Their response pretty much covered all the bases of what they've done and why. If you haven't read it, I suggest you do:

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2009/11/09/31255#more-31255

If that doesn't make it clear for you, nothing will. Pay good attention to the sencond to last sentence, which conflicts with what all of this is about = "Big bad GW shutting down fansites".

Like I said earlier, most are just jumping on the GWbash train solely because its something new to complain about and allows them to pretend to be trademark attornies or business experts.

Also, desist is spelled wrong in the title of this thread. Thats been annoying me all day.

Eh, my position is that the domain name issue has legal precedent behind it to show that webmasters may contest this policy, and that GW's claims don't hold a lot of legal water in some cases.

I like how the official response letter from GW says that we can't advertise Warhammer night at the FLGS using the name Warhammer.

Aduro wrote:I like how the official response letter from GW says that we can't advertise Warhammer night at the FLGS using the name Warhammer.

Psst.

That's not what it says.

It says that your league cannot have the name "Warhammer" in it.

You can have Warhammer Night at Joseph's Hobby Shop all you want.

You can't, however, have Warhammer of Justice league nights at Joseph's Hobby Shop, or Blood Bowltastic league nights.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Elitist Jerk wrote:I agree with this. Most of you have no idea what it takes to run a company, yet you feel you can be Monday morning quarterbacks. How many of you have degrees in business or have actually ran one that does as much business as GW? Honestly if you just complain and offer little no solution other than "WHINE WHINE WHINE make stuff cheaper WHINE WHINE WHINE" do you think anyone will take you seriously? I for one think GW has gotten much better as a company, their models are only becoming more amazing and more involved. The rules for their games are getting better too. I can't wait to spend money on my new Skaven army.

Oh and one more thing. This is a hobby. If you don't like the prices or don't like the company then quit. No one is forcing you to play this HOBBY (read not essential). If you want to be all gung ho about the cost of something, try the price of food or gas. Care about something that actually makes a difference.

Wow, what an amazing pair of lips you have that on your very first post you can kiss GW ass AND irritate me at the same time!

Achem: I do know something about business. I won't toot my own horn, due to non-disclosure.

Unless GW's suppliers of raw materials have increased their costs, (can't say I've heard of the price of tin, lead, or plastic rising THAT much) the only way the price hike was necessary is if they substantially increased wages. I can't say I've heard of that, either. So, in effect, GW is probably raising their prices to see what the market will bare. This is a standard business practice in most companies, but due to the complex interaction of GW's IP, the hamfisted approach that legal seems to be taking, and the general feeling that customers have been somehow cheated, this is a very, very poor PR move and likely to see some sort of backlash.

I can see why you would make the assumptions you just did based on this being my first "official" post under this user name. Sorry that you seem to be offended that I am "defending" a company which I like to buy product from. While their prices might seem a bit high on some things (like 45 dollars for the Space Wolves character on wolf) others seem about right. You bring up a good point about the cost of materials, but who says that is the only thing driving cost? A mod on here already pointed out that the majority of their sales come from the new guy who comes in and drops some cash on the game. He has no idea about how these prices have gone up over time nor does he probably care that much. They charge what they do because they can. I think some of you are forgetting that a company has a single job and that is to make the most money possible for its shareholders and company owners. That is it. They have no obligation to you whatsoever.

And to those saying its hipocritcal for me to say not to care about GW's policies and then post in this thread think about what you just typed. I never said I didn't care, I said that it is a hobby and that if you don't like it you don't have to play it.They are two very different things, but I do appreciate you lumping them together.

Anyway as per the topic of the boycott, it has already been brought up but this will have little to no effect. There are better ways, which again have been mentioned in this thread, that should be explored besides this. All this does is make you seem like those crazy people who fly off the handle about everything.

Well, let's say this works. That we boycott GW and they feel a pinch.

How do you know they will react the way we want them to?

How do you know they won't respond to the loss in sales as a motivator to cut more stuff they might feel as a poor investment or an unnecessary expense?

Say, we boycott and cost them $250,000 in sales.

Will they say "Oh, we've pissed off our fanbase and they've stopped spending money on our products because they are unhappy with our policies, we should start listening more to what they have to say."?

or

Will they say "4th Quarter Profits are down. Upon further analysis, Dark Eldar sales aren't justifiable given our recent losses. Give them the Squat treatment."?

Boycotts only work if a company loses money and has no other alternative but to cater to the boycott. As of now, I can see them completely gutting their Specialist Games and less popular armies (and other services) before giving into pressure from their consumer base.

Elitist Jerk wrote:
I can see why you would make the assumptions you just did based on this being my first "official" post under this user name. Sorry that you seem to be offended that I am "defending" a company which I like to buy product from. While their prices might seem a bit high on some things (like 45 dollars for the Space Wolves character on wolf) others seem about right. You bring up a good point about the cost of materials, but who says that is the only thing driving cost? A mod on here already pointed out that the majority of their sales come from the new guy who comes in and drops some cash on the game. He has no idea about how these prices have gone up over time nor does he probably care that much. They charge what they do because they can. I think some of you are forgetting that a company has a single job and that is to make the most money possible for its shareholders and company owners. That is it. They have no obligation to you whatsoever.

And to those saying its hipocritcal for me to say not to care about GW's policies and then post in this thread think about what you just typed. I never said I didn't care, I said that it is a hobby and that if you don't like it you don't have to play it.They are two very different things, but I do appreciate you lumping them together.

Anyway as per the topic of the boycott, it has already been brought up but this will have little to no effect. There are better ways, which again have been mentioned in this thread, that should be explored besides this. All this does is make you seem like those crazy people who fly off the handle about everything.

I have added emphasis to a few points that I wish to hit on;

Some ways back, on page 4 or so, I do point out that the corporation has a responsibility to its' shareholders. Now that responsibility, to distill it down, is to make money. What I disagree with is your statement regarding their obligation to the customer. To a certain degree, a coporation like GW PLC can get away with some arrogance, but in almost every other retail market no company would intentionally alienate part of their client-base.

Quite a few people have pointed out that no number of people organized on the internet could possibly have an effect on GW policy. Now, with my experiences in large multi-market retail companies, even one angry customer is taken very seriously. The amount of damage a legitimately disgruntled consumer can do in our digital age is downright frightening, and most modern businesses are aware of this. The best example I can use is a large sporting goods corporation that I once worked for;

This company now has 26 stores across the US, operates a massive catalog business that sells to 47 states and over 100 foreign countries, and the annual revenue is somewhere north of $1.75 billion on average. Any time that a customer phoned the customer service line to discuss something that angered them or annoyed them, Public Relations would initiate an investigation, sometimes resulting in far-reaching policy changes for the whole company! All over one phone-call?

It's because any annoyed customer that we ignored could have the potential to cause damage that would reach for years. We not only calculated the immediate loss of revenue, but the loss of revenue over the customers life-time, as well as the impact that they could have on the purchases of their friends and relatives. They could then take their problem to "the internet", which would then expose the problem to the entire world. The customer could now potentially effect sales far outside their own geographical area, and if they found others with a similar problem, they could do quantifiable damage to the "corporate image".

All this from a company who's operating income is higher than GW's total revenue? It all can have an effect, but it takes reasoned discourse and organized behavior to accomplish it.

It just takes a little more intelligence than, "Yarrgh! I hate GW 'cus they stole my moneyz!!"



Finally, I do agree that a boycott will have minimal effect, as the up-swing in sales that would be experienced at the end would offset any losses incurred.

Kanluwen wrote:You can't, however, have Warhammer of Justice league nights at Joseph's Hobby Shop, or Blood Bowltastic league nights.

I'll bet you can have Blood Bowltastic league nights if you're an AMF bowling alley...

I agree that to an extent a company does have an "obligation" to the customer, as you have pointed out. This is a very valid point, and I agree that they do have a responsibility to those who are intelligent to actually know what they are upset about and what they want. The average person on the internet who gets all huffy about something has no coherent argument, let alone knows the details of why they are actually upset. They go off the handle saying "PRICES ARE TOO HIGH FIX THEM GOD". Or they get up in arms over these sites that are being asked to restructure because GW wants to protect their IP.

So I guess I can agree that if there was a more cohesive way of getting the point across to them then that would be fine. But trying to instigate a rebellion over the internet seems a bit too Marxist for me. Eviscerate the proletariat and all that mess. Cheers to actual intellectual conversations.

Arklite, it may seem like I'm ignoring the rest of your post (I'm not) but it really comes down to this:

Arklite wrote:Now, with my experiences in large multi-market retail companies, even one angry customer is taken very seriously.

The thing is, if that angry customer is standing in a store, or is on the phone, GW does indeed take it seriously. Their customer service at the retail end is, from my experience, second to none.

Where they fall down is that they seem to have a remarkably blinkered and backwards view of the internet. Various comments from numerous GW people over the years (including games developers) have suggested that they just don't take the various forums that seriously, and write off all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes on as just the usual internet hyperbole from a very vocal minority rather than anything to actually worry about.

The problem for all of us is that it's hard to tell whether or not they're right in that view. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking, 'Yeah, there's a lot of people on Dakka, so we must be a force to be reckoned with'... but in the grand scheme of things, just how big a force are we?

I've encountered several hundred gamers from around various parts of Australia in my time playing 40K. And from those that I've talked to, barely a handful actually spend any time on internet forums. And a large number of those have a similar view to the wailing and gnashing that GW does.



So, yeah, that one angry customer can make a difference... but they have to get angry in the right place to make that difference.

pombe wrote:Say, we boycott and cost them $250,000 in sales.

Based on previous calculation, I still doubt an Internet boycott would come near that number...

insaniak wrote:Arklite, it may seem like I'm ignoring the rest of your post (I'm not) but it really comes down to this:

Arklite wrote:Now, with my experiences in large multi-market retail companies, even one angry customer is taken very seriously.

The thing is, if that angry customer is standing in a store, or is on the phone, GW does indeed take it seriously. Their customer service at the retail end is, from my experience, second to none.

Where they fall down is that they seem to have a remarkably blinkered and backwards view of the internet. Various comments from numerous GW people over the years (including games developers) have suggested that they just don't take the various forums that seriously, and write off all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes on as just the usual internet hyperbole from a very vocal minority rather than anything to actually worry about.

The problem for all of us is that it's hard to tell whether or not they're right in that view. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking, 'Yeah, there's a lot of people on Dakka, so we must be a force to be reckoned with'... but in the grand scheme of things, just how big a force are we?

I've encountered several hundred gamers from around various parts of Australia in my time playing 40K. And from those that I've talked to, barely a handful actually spend any time on internet forums. And a large number of those have a similar view to the wailing and gnashing that GW does.



So, yeah, that one angry customer can make a difference... but they have to get angry in the right place to make that difference.

You are very correct, sir.

Hence my advocacy for other methods of showing GW the true "state of the hobby". Well-written correspondence tends to be the best initial method of contact, as the time and emotion taken to write and mail a letter is seen as much greater than an e-mail or phone-call by many of today's Customer Service depts.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

pombe wrote:Say, we boycott and cost them $250,000 in sales.

Based on previous calculation, I still doubt an Internet boycott would come near that number...

I dunno. The way some of us spend money, that could be just six people...

insaniak seems to be spot on to me..

None of my friends who play frequent the forums regularly. And although they may get peeved occasionally in real life no one gets anywhere near as peeved compared to the internet. Well Ive never seen it.

BaronIveagh wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

pombe wrote:Say, we boycott and cost them $250,000 in sales.

Based on previous calculation, I still doubt an Internet boycott would come near that number...

I dunno. The way some of us spend money, that could be just six people...

When I'm spending $50k/year on entertainment, if "the GW hobby" doesn't include hookers and blow, they're not getting a penny!

The problem is it's cynicism vs Optimism. Optimists believe they can achieve something by working together and protesting perceived wrongs. Cynics believe optimists are wasting their time and that the world is irredeemably corrupt.

Basically, in this case, optimists are shouting for GW to 'Halt your Evil Ways!' while the cynics try to explain their lack of caring by repeatedly informing the optimists how they'll fail, and how the universe will inevitably align with the powers what is to crush them utterly.

You can see how 40k appeals to cynics a lot.

Personally I'll believe that any of us are motivated to do anything about it as soon as one of you sets yourself on fire in front of Games Workshop HQ to protest their inhumanity.

I'm a cynic, but I've decided to try making what little difference I can, so don't try to bring me down.

Arklite wrote:Finally, I do agree that a boycott will have minimal effect, as the up-swing in sales that would be experienced at the end would offset any losses incurred.

That's the biggest problem with this whole thing, in my opinion. If you don't like the company, stop buying from them and support someone else, don't just hold off on your purchases.

captain.gordino wrote:

Arklite wrote:Finally, I do agree that a boycott will have minimal effect, as the up-swing in sales that would be experienced at the end would offset any losses incurred.

That's the biggest problem with this whole thing, in my opinion. If you don't like the company, stop buying from them and support someone else, don't just hold off on your purchases.

I agree, spending the hobby money on another miniature company will be much more positive overall.

BaronIveagh wrote:The problem is it's cynicism vs Optimism. Optimists believe they can achieve something by working together and protesting perceived wrongs. Cynics believe optimists are wasting their time and that the world is irredeemably corrupt.

The difference being, the latter's viewpoints are actually attributable to real-world phenomena. Nine out of ten boycotts fail to produce any kind of result except a warm fuzzy feeling in the protestors.

pombe wrote:Say, we boycott and cost them $250,000 in sales.

Will they say "Oh, we've pissed off our fanbase and they've stopped spending money on our products because they are unhappy with our policies, we should start listening more to what they have to say."?

or

Will they say "4th Quarter Profits are down. Upon further analysis, Dark Eldar sales aren't justifiable given our recent losses. Give them the Squat treatment."?

Boycotts only work if a company loses money and has no other alternative but to cater to the boycott. As of now, I can see them completely gutting their Specialist Games and less popular armies (and other services) before giving into pressure from their consumer base.

You know, you're absolutely right. If GW loses any money it'll just force them to make even more cuts, raise prices even higher, etc.

By the time they finally realized what was going on it would be too late, lol...

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:The problem is it's cynicism vs Optimism. Optimists believe they can achieve something by working together and protesting perceived wrongs. Cynics believe optimists are wasting their time and that the world is irredeemably corrupt.

The difference being, the latter's viewpoints are actually attributable to real-world phenomena. Nine out of ten boycotts fail to produce any kind of result except a warm fuzzy feeling in the protestors.

And 70% of all statistics are made up...

Pipboy101 wrote:The only person that will be hurt by a two month boycott is your FLGS owner.

I'm not sure about other guys, but my LGS does more than just warhammer...

Deal me in, I'll only buy the bug codex in jan so I can continue to play with my friends outside the store. Instead of a new battleforce I'll get into War Machine like I was thinking about. My LGS has more than triple as many War Machine and Hordes players than 40k players. No fantasy players to be seen, the boxes of fantasy models are still there from when I started a year ago. I occasionally write in the dust on the top-shelf ones *sadface*.

My LGS will do just fine.

me ill ring em a fortnight before like in kettras idea.
its time we acted.

sigh...

im sending a letter telling jervis telling him to stop ruiningthe codexs
gw need to bring out new chaos models and a new codex
but i will not boycutt them completely need more models for my army
but i will write them a letter

I will partially join the boicott:
- The only models I have planned to buy this year would be second-hand, so they don't count, as GW won't get the money
- I will probably get Space Hulk for X-mas present, but only because it's so rare and there's not gonna be more, so it is an expection I think you guys can handle.

I'm in. Vote for Deadshane!

Considering I dont buy new models anyway, and havent for a long time. Sure, count me in.

Psht - I have happily avoided buying new items directly from GW for years now, and often proxy in miniatures from other companies for GW games (when not actually using said minis in the other company's games themselves). What I'm saying is - it's about time some of you have joined in.

Sorry, I need another Tau Battleforce. I only play tabletop, so this doesn't really matter to me.

Gandair wrote:

Pipboy101 wrote:The only person that will be hurt by a two month boycott is your FLGS owner.

I'm not sure about other guys, but my LGS does more than just warhammer...

Deal me in, I'll only buy the bug codex in jan so I can continue to play with my friends outside the store. Instead of a new battleforce I'll get into War Machine like I was thinking about. My LGS has more than triple as many War Machine and Hordes players than 40k players. No fantasy players to be seen, the boxes of fantasy models are still there from when I started a year ago. I occasionally write in the dust on the top-shelf ones *sadface*.

My LGS will do just fine.

Because your store represents the greater macrocosm of most FLGS. Pretty bold statement to say that if your store is fine then others will be as well. If you don't buy anything at all, they will feel the hit, but even buying other products might not be enough. For example for those who are planning on getting into Tyranids. Instead of dropping the 300+ dollars it takes to get into the hobby, they might spend 30 on the Malifaux game. Big difference there. Now you are correct in that store to remain successful should sell more than Warhammer, but it seems like the FLGS could inadvertently be impacted by this which is not a good thing.

Count me in. Other than Space Hulk, I haven't bought anything from GW in a long time.

I get my stuff from Ebay (mostly) or the Warstore, but With so much on my plate already, I haven't had to buy very much anyway.

I can wait 2 months.

Done
Im on board.
WE can do better though, talk with the local gameclubs as well, i know i can persuade many of my local friends not to buy GW for 2 months as well. and if they absolutely need something, second hand from e-bay is a good place to look.

My concern was not whether or not a boycott will be successful, but that if it were successful, it might not achieve the desired result.

I'm afraid that if this were to succeed, that we would suffer some other undesired outcome, not the least of which are the loss of programs that GW has that cater to the veterans, such as Specialist Games.

GW's behavior has been rather schizophrenic, with long term plans side-tracked by shortsighted knee-jerk reactions. Their long term plan to develop their plastics has been a great one, which promised us metal-quality detail and more "stuff/bitz" on sprues at prices less than the metals. Indeed, their plastic miniatures are the absolute best in the industry. Then they state that they will increase the price of their plastics to match their metals. Huh? Between their rationales that oil has gone up in price (which affects plastic) or that tin has gone up in price (which affects metals), all I hear is that everything will go up in price.

And given GW's penchant to increase their prices in good times and bad times, it's no wonder that so many veterans are disillusioned. How many retailers do you that know increase the prices of an existing product? If a new kit comes out at a higher price, I get it. There are costs associated with the development of a new kit. But I'm still lost as to why the AoBR box set went from $60 to $75, given that nothing has changed. Or why Eldrad Ulthran now costs more than twice what he did when he was released (it is the SAME miniature that was released in April 1994 during 2nd Edition when Tyranid Warriors were turkey wannabes and the color red was the color du jour for the 'Eavy Metal team!!!).

And we haven't even gone into GW's heavy handedness when it comes to their IP, and how they LIED to the consumers during their attempts to limit internet discounting in the early 2000's. They should have been upfront about it, instead of turning it into a PR fiasco.

That said, I have no clue how much the internet crowd contributes to GW's coffers (through direct purchases, LGS purchases, or internet discounters including eBay sellers). Thus, I have no idea how significant we are to their bottomline. However, if we were to organize and become a...dun dun dun..."lobby" (pretty much the only way to get politicians/companies to listen is to contribute votes/money as a group, not as individuals), we may get GW's attention, because we can affect popular opinion.

Let's face it: GW's dominance is due to their popularity. It's easy to find other gamers that play GW games. But if we all start spending money on other games, then the odds of us finding other gamers that play non-GW games increase, which of course, will have a cascade effect on new people who join the hobby.

With that, I will say that the best thing we can do is spend our money on other companies. That said, I will join this protest by cancelling some GW purchases I was planning, and buy some Battletech miniatures from Ironwind Metals with that money instead.

What I am seeing here and I know it has been said before, that a high majority of the people that are signing onto the boycott were already not planning on buying anything from GW anyways within the next 2 months. That is not much of a boycott since you were not going to send any money anyways. So this boycott is as limp as an old man's if a most of the people were not going to spend money in the first place so what kind of message are you sending? Think of this point before you start to rage.

This thread is hilarious. "I'll boycott! except...."

Seriously guys, writing letters or even calling will get more done than pretending to boycott.

But please, this impotent thread is pretty humorous, keep it going.

That is not much of a boycott since you were not going to send any money anyways.

Yes, but at least this way I feel important.

No excepts here. I just let my fingers do the walking and bought my minis from other hobbyists or people leaving the hobby over crap like this and saved a bundle on my BFG insurance.

I figure that my savings over buying from GW have been in the ballpark of 50%, particularly in plastic chaos cruisers. Thus, I make a point and save money.

So does Paris Hilton and Britney Spears everytime they exit a car with no panties on but both are completely worthless such as boycott when you were not going to spend anyways.

Meanwhile....................................April 2010 - GW HQ Boardroom, Nottingham, England.

Kirby - So fellas what are we going to do about this? [glares at his gathered minions pointing at a sales chart with slight dip in Q4 trading figures]

Minions grown under their collective breaths and cower away from their masters gaze.

Red Shirted Financial Director scratches chin thoughtfully - Probably down to the internet forum grumblings we heard rumours of towards the end of last year?

Kirby face growing redder - WHAT.....did you say? INTERNET FORUMS!! [pushes button on desk]

Two suited heavies walk into the boardroom, silently march in tandem up to the Financial Director.

Heavy #1 - Come with me sir you have an appointment.

Red Shirted Financial Director screaming - NO NOT THE PLAY TESTING LAB NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

John Blanche turns to JJ - Ah feth here we go again, the last one to mention forums was Chambers and you know what happened to him!

JJ whispers under his breath - He hasn't been this angry since one of the Mail Order trolls wazed in the plastic store and ruined those craters!

Kirby - What DID you say Johnson?

JJ squirming in his chair, sweat pouring down his prematurely bald forehead - Errrr, Errmmmm?!? [panic spreads across JJ's face] We should errrr, put prices up to cover the difference?

Kirby - Hmmmmm, EXCELLENT Johnson, you [points] minion make it so! Its that sort of creative spark that has made this company the well loved market leader it is today. Right next item on the agenda The Mystery Box 2010 - They'll love us for this I tell you, someone throw some more cash on the fire!

notprop wrote:Meanwhile....................................April 2010 - GW HQ Boardroom, Nottingham, England.

Kirby - So fellas what are we going to do about this? [glares at his gathered minions pointing at a sales chart with slight dip in Q4 trading figures]

Minions grown under their collective breaths and cower away from their masters gaze.

Red Shirted Financial Director scratches chin thoughtfully - Probably down to the internet forum grumblings we heard rumours of towards the end of last year?

Kirby face growing redder - WHAT.....did you say? INTERNET FORUMS!! [pushes button on desk]

Two suited heavies walk into the boardroom, silently march in tandem up to the Financial Director.

Heavy #1 - Come with me sir you have an appointment.

Red Shirted Financial Director screaming - NO NOT THE PLAY TESTING LAB NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

John Blanche turns to JJ - Ah feth here we go again, the last one to mention forums was Chambers and you know what happened to him!

JJ whispers under his breath - He hasn't been this angry since one of the Mail Order trolls wazed in the plastic store and ruined those craters!

Kirby - What DID you say Johnson?

JJ squirming in his chair, sweat pouring down his prematurely bald forehead - Errrr, Errmmmm?!? [panic spreads across JJ's face] We should errrr, put prices up to cover the difference?

Kirby - Hmmmmm, EXCELLENT Johnson, you [points] minion make it so! Its that sort of creative spark that has made this company the well loved market leader it is today. Right next item on the agenda The Mystery Box 2010 - They'll love us for this I tell you, someone throw some more cash on the fire!

That is a good one. However, I might point out that they do, on occasion, read these forums. Well... at least some of them do....

What's GW's value as a company these days, anyone know?

GAMES WORKSHOP GRP (GAW.L) as of 10:32am: 278.90 p 1.10 (0.39%)

2009 Revenue Avg. Estimate 131.04 M
2010 Revenue Avg. Estimate 139.64 M

Earnings Est 2009 2010
Avg. Estimate 19.51 23.7
Low Estimate 18.91 22.8
High Estimate 20.1 24.6

Wait... they're only worth 140m???

Any intel on the major shareholders?

Most of the shares are held by a venture investment company. You can get a copy of the Register of Shares frmo Companies House for £1.

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/82db91eb418349c9739ae4e1f8d07ea9/compdetails

Would buying gw stock be worth it?

Lord of battles wrote:Would buying gw stock be worth it?

Not when I'm done with them.

This is why your boycott will not work:

E-Trade Financial Statement About Games Workshop

Games Workshop Group plc has been able to grow revenues from £110.3M to £125.7M. Most impressively, the company has been able to reduce the percentage of sales devoted to cost of goods sold from 29.81% to 28.57%. This was a driver that led to a bottom line growth from a loss of £740.0K to a gain of £5.6M.

Although debt as a percent of total capital decreased at Games Workshop Group plc over the last fiscal year to 24.01%, it is still in-line with the Leisure Equipment and Products industry's norm. Additionally, even though there are not enough liquid assets to satisfy current obligations, Operating Profits are more than adequate to service the debt. Accounts Receivable are among the industry's worst with 19.25 days worth of sales outstanding. This implies that revenues are not being collected in an efficient manner. Last, inventories seem to be well managed as the Inventory Processing Period is typical for the industry, at 106.76 days.

Net Cash (in millions) after payouts and debts:

2006: -3.8 2007: -5.1 2008: 5.3 2009: 5.4

Games Workshop is operating at a profit after paying the shareholders and their debts. If you can get a 100 people to not spend real money you are not even going to even dent the 5.4 million profit margin that GW has this year. With all the C&D letters and poor gamer relationship over the past couple of years they have turned a huge profit so they will not give a about a angry forum posts or a few boycotts since they investors are happy and keep on investing.

You want to make a change in GW then become a voting shareholder since that who has real power with them not some whiny forum geek (in their eyes) that is mad that they can't get free stuff online or their mountain dew budget had to be cut because their codex went up by 2 dollars.


Some one wanted to know who was incharge of GW here you go:
KEY EXECUTIVES - Games Workshop Group plc (GAW)

Mark N. Wells Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director
Tom H. F. Kirby Chairman and Member of City Committee
Kevin Derek Rountree Chief Financial Officer and Director
John Laughlin Head of Operations
Rachel F. Tongue Company Secretary

BOARD OF DIRECTORS - Games Workshop Group plc (GAW)
Tom H. F. Kirby Games Workshop Group plc
Mark N. Wells 4Games Workshop Group
Kevin Derek Rountree Games Workshop Group plc
Chris J. Myatt Games Workshop Group plc
Nicholas J. Donaldson Games Workshop Group plc

EXECUTIVE COMMITTEES* - Games Workshop Group plc (GAW)
Committee Name Chairperson Board Relationships Members
Audit Committee Chris J. Myatt
Compensation Committee Nicholas J. Donaldson
Nominating Committee Nicholas J. Donaldson

Agamemnon2 wrote:The difference being, the latter's viewpoints are actually attributable to real-world phenomena. Nine out of ten boycotts fail to produce any kind of result except a warm fuzzy feeling in the protestors.

If we talk about GW boycotts, I'd bump that number up from 9/10 to something more like 150/150.

And really, if you want to get GW's attention this holiday season (Dec/Jan), you'll need to produce a net decrease of at least 10% over what they would have expected. Now, last year, GW pulled in 125M GBP. Of which, one can guess 30M to 40M GBP would have been during the holiday season, being basically a toy manufacturer.

If you want to get GW's attention, you need to create a boycott that reduces their holiday revenue by 3-4M GBP. Or $5-7M USD.

So far, our boycott numbers aren't even a tenth of that, and are more on the scale of 1%. A boycott that only results in a 0.1% revenue reduction isn't going to cut it, folks.

Pipboy101 wrote:
Some one wanted to know who was incharge of GW here you go:
KEY EXECUTIVES - Games Workshop Group plc (GAW)

Mark N. Wells Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director
Tom H. F. Kirby Chairman and Member of City Committee
Kevin Derek Rountree Chief Financial Officer and Director
John Laughlin Head of Operations
Rachel F. Tongue Company Secretary

So Kirby isn't CEO anymore? I had heard rumours to that effect, and I guess this seals it.

Does this mean we start blaming this Mark Wells guy now?

JohnHwangDD wrote:So far, our boycott numbers aren't even a tenth of that, and are more on the scale of 1%. A boycott that only results in a 0.1% revenue reduction isn't going to cut it, folks.

Thank you, at least someone understands.

This boycott was going to look like a kid not wanting to eat his veggies. Cute but just like any good parent, ignore the tantrum and continue to serve the veggies.


What was posted on the SEC Filing is what the current executives are for GW. Blame Wells for the working of his drones in the company.

Pipboy101 wrote:What I am seeing here and I know it has been said before, that a high majority of the people that are signing onto the boycott were already not planning on buying anything from GW anyways within the next 2 months. That is not much of a boycott since you were not going to send any money anyways. So this boycott is as limp as an old man's if a most of the people were not going to spend money in the first place so what kind of message are you sending? Think of this point before you start to rage.

Not true, i need a ton of things from the skaven line and a few odds and ends here and there. i will not be buying any GW for the holidays now though, even though that means no clanrats or slaves from the new stuff or the new screaming bell etc. That said im thinking that GW can hold out for a few mounths without my cash so i will be converting most of the stuff i was going to buy and hope i can make enough to seriously effect what i was going to perchace.

notprop wrote:Meanwhile....................................April 2010 - GW HQ Boardroom, Nottingham, England.

You know, it's posts like this that are a part of the problem. You treat Games Workshop like some kind of comicbook supervillain, which is not only completely insipid, but also outrageously naive. They are a business, not some chaotic assembly of monkeys. Demonizing them by this sort of infantile caricature serves nobody's interests, unless your intent is to portray this little "protest movement" as a bunch of teenagers completely out of touch with how the world works.

We're all little people. Nothing we do matters one iota. The best outcome we can hope for is escaping the hobby with out pocketbooks and dignities more or less intact.

See you are doing what is not buying from GW eventhough you want and need stuff which is an effective boycott not like the 90% of the boycotters that were not going to buy anything anyways.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

notprop wrote:Meanwhile....................................April 2010 - GW HQ Boardroom, Nottingham, England.

You know, it's posts like this that are a part of the problem. You treat Games Workshop like some kind of comicbook supervillain, which is not only completely insipid, but also outrageously naive. They are a business, not some chaotic assembly of monkeys. Demonizing them by this sort of infantile caricature serves nobody's interests, unless your intent is to portray this little "protest movement" as a bunch of teenagers completely out of touch with how the world works.

We're all little people. Nothing we do matters one iota. The best outcome we can hope for is escaping the hobby with out pocketbooks and dignities more or less intact.

Are you now, or have you ever been an employee or major stockholder of Games Workshop? Because you are taking an awfully partisan line there. I, for one will persist in thinking of them as a chaotic bunch of monkeys, thank you very much.

I wish, I might have been able to score a quick buck off Games Workshop fleecing the parents of their core demographic, an endless horde of snot-nosed punks. I'm by no means on their side, it's more a case of having utter contempt for all actors in this dismal spectacle.

GW's Board of Directors issuing orders out to the workers.

censored

The true name of the GW Headquarter.

censored

Agamemnon2 wrote:
We're all little people. Nothing we do matters one iota. The best outcome we can hope for is escaping the hobby with out pocketbooks and dignities more or less intact.

That's a beacon of hope in dark times!

Agamemnon2 wrote:

notprop wrote:Meanwhile....................................April 2010 - GW HQ Boardroom, Nottingham, England.

You know, it's posts like this that are a part of the problem. You treat Games Workshop like some kind of comicbook supervillain, which is not only completely insipid, but also outrageously naive. They are a business, not some chaotic assembly of monkeys. Demonizing them by this sort of infantile caricature serves nobody's interests, unless your intent is to portray this little "protest movement" as a bunch of teenagers completely out of touch with how the world works.

We're all little people. Nothing we do matters one iota. The best outcome we can hope for is escaping the hobby with out pocketbooks and dignities more or less intact.

your right, nothing we do will matter one lick spit to GW.... probably.
But what i do matters to me.
Their is a line between being a fan of the games GW puts out and being a fan of GW. im not at all a fan of the current GW because of the way it conducts it business. how it treats its fan base is abhorant. and as such i belive such actions taken from GW legal should have a suitable reaction from the people who support and buy the products.
Obviously a letter wont do squat, nor will complaint. but GW is a Business, its there to make money. So i 'choose' not to buy GW for the holidays and make alternative arangements for the things i would have bought as a protest against GW's behavior.
The people whom sit in the drivers seat of GW need to know that if alot of poeple think they have done something wrong, then they are answerable to the consequeses of those actions.
They will get the message someday, lets just hope its not so late that i stop buying altogether and switch to other companies for my minis.

Gandair wrote:

Pipboy101 wrote:The only person that will be hurt by a two month boycott is your FLGS owner.

I'm not sure about other guys, but my LGS does more than just warhammer...

If your FLGS is expecting typical large GW sales for the holiday, and instead you make him sit on a bunch of "excess" GW inventory for the next 6-8 months, while shorting him on the other stuff, I'm not sure he's going to like that...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Gandair wrote:

Pipboy101 wrote:The only person that will be hurt by a two month boycott is your FLGS owner.

I'm not sure about other guys, but my LGS does more than just warhammer...

If your FLGS is expecting typical large GW sales for the holiday, and instead you make him sit on a bunch of "excess" GW inventory for the next 6-8 months, while shorting him on the other stuff, I'm not sure he's going to like that...

Cant say i agree, most FLGS's i know dont order in huge stock for the holidays, but alot do restock after the holidays

Kilkrazy wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:
We're all little people. Nothing we do matters one iota. The best outcome we can hope for is escaping the hobby with out pocketbooks and dignities more or less intact.

That's a beacon of hope in dark times!

I snorted coffee, well played.

My FLGS just brought in a butt-load of AT-43 stock, so I'm sure they'll appreciate me taking some of that off of their hands.

Something I considered on the way home, slightly off topic but it fits here better than anywhere else.

What I find quite funny about this whole IP thing is that GW's early days were pretty much based on stealing ideas from others.

A large portion of the early WHFB is Tolkien inspired (Orcs, Goblins, Elves, Dark Elves [Eöl], Undead with their Wights and Ghouls, the two kingdoms of Men, and the Chaos wastes very much like Mordor )

Genestealers were a blatant rip-off of Aliens. The whole impregnation thing, and Space Hulk: Marines (Space Marines! They couldn't even think of a new name!) fighting off aggressive aliens in the corridors of spaceships.

The early 40k universe was obviously inspired by DUNE.
The Psykers, the Astropaths, and the Mechanicus, are all pretty much lifts with light rewrites of the Spacing/Navigator Guild, and Bene Gesserit in those books.
The Space Marines aren't too far apart from the Sardaukar, and the early Marine models were called Imperial Death Squads. Again quite close for comfort.
Most of the other early races (and some still current) are just WHFB lifts into a Sci-Fi setting, so Tolkien again..

So remember Kiddies! Don't touch GW's IP, just don't forget to forget where a lot of it came from.

Due to the sheer breadth and depth, Tolkien Fantasy became defacto standard - there isn't much of anything that doesn't follow it. GW ripped off no more than Gygax or Jordan, for example.

Dune, along with Heinlein (STroopers) and Asimov (Foundation) are similarly iconic insipration for pretty much everything that follows.

IMO, GW's the biggest movie rip off was Dark Future, and that thing tanked. Their big book rip would be Fury of Dracula - Stoker would be pissed!

Never mind stealing Tau Firewarriors off obscure album covers or their making off with Chaos right out of Elric.

That said, there are other things besides boycotts that can get GWs attention that don't require nearly as many people.

If you really want them to think the end is near: government audits are wonderful. Also get their employees discussing unionization. Put their name in the paper in a negative light. Don't lie. Just make them out to be villains. Some opportunistic public parasite or other will try to snap up what he perceives as an easy way to gain votes. Get him talking about regulating their business.

The price of their stock drops like a rock.

BaronIveagh wrote:stealing Tau Firewarriors off obscure album covers

And obscure video games, the pilot helmets in Colony Wars Vengeance look a lot like fire warrior heads.

Anyways, I don't know if the boycot will work or not, given the general dakka population. Somewhere between 'lets do it!' and indifference.

I'll give you the Tolkien thing.
Although I think there are plenty of other Sci-Fi settings that don't use Herbert, Heinlein, or Asimov as its foundation. Also I don't think inspiration from Heinlein or Asimov had much to do with the original idea behind 40K.

Agamemnon2 wrote:They are a business, not some chaotic assembly of monkeys.

How sure are on this?

Lord of battles wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:They are a business, not some chaotic assembly of monkeys.

How sure are on this?

Given how they write rulebooks, I would not be surprised to find a thousand monkeys banging away on keyboards in their offices...

Agamemnon2 wrote:

notprop wrote:Meanwhile....................................April 2010 - GW HQ Boardroom, Nottingham, England.

You know, it's posts like this that are a part of the problem. You treat Games Workshop like some kind of comicbook supervillain, which is not only completely insipid, but also outrageously naive. They are a business, not some chaotic assembly of monkeys. Demonizing them by this sort of infantile caricature serves nobody's interests, unless your intent is to portray this little "protest movement" as a bunch of teenagers completely out of touch with how the world works.

We're all little people. Nothing we do matters one iota. The best outcome we can hope for is escaping the hobby with out pocketbooks and dignities more or less intact.

Oh dear, it appears someone was a little cranky when they got up this morning! I personally do not have a problem with GW or the way they operate, but a little satire in the face of allot of OMG!! throwing of toys out of the pram drama goes along way in this sceptred isle, but clearly does not translate to erm.....where-ever? You should try poking a little fun in the face of adversity you might find some of you posts being a little less doom and gloom. Sorry this isn't meant to sound like an attack [does it even?] but i'm far too lazy to translate into passive web nonsense or use the del button.

Suffice to say the underlining theme of my previous post was that GW can and will raise prices at a rate they choose, their market is such that a slight diminish in sales volume can be off set by an increase in price if required. They have't been particularly hit by the recession and are infact expanding their retail base.

Anyway like me old pappy always said "all the best jokes need to be expained"

And finally Agee - Cheer up you old bugger! [walks off whistling]

I work in a very big company and I can tell you from experience that it is much more like a chaotic assembly of monkeys than the well oiled machine people like to think businesses are.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Lord of battles wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:They are a business, not some chaotic assembly of monkeys.

How sure are on this?

Given how they write rulebooks, I would not be surprised to find a thousand monkeys banging away on keyboards in their offices...

Maybe someday they'll write the complete works of Shakespeare?

BaronIveagh wrote:Put their name in the paper in a negative light.

Some opportunistic public parasite or other will try to snap up what he perceives as an easy way to gain votes. Get him talking about regulating their business.

Too bad nobody reads newspapers anymore...

More government regulation? HELL, NO. I'd rather GW drove every other manufacturer into bankruptcy with a perpetual, Disneyean non-compete guarantee than have an even larger government bureaucracy managing my hobby!

The problem is, the kind of person you want to join this boycott is the type of person who spends a lot of money at GW.
Those kinds of people won't join and will more likely oppose such an action, because they like GW as it sells them the models they crave.
If they boycott, how will they get their 40k or WHFB fix?

The kind of person who would join this boycott, has probably stopped buying GW products directly a long while ago.
Either by moving on to another system, or by buying second hand off Ebay.
If they join will it make a difference? No, because they don't buy anyway.

So in the end you're trying to convince the "not sure" crowd, who don't feel strongly either way.
So probably won't take any action either, or if they do it'll be a half-hearted effort because they don't really care as much as you do.

Damn shame but there you go. Now you know how Greenpeace feel.

I'm in.
21st November, 2009.

Ends about 20th January, 2010.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:You can't, however, have Warhammer of Justice league nights at Joseph's Hobby Shop, or Blood Bowltastic league nights.

I'll bet you can have Blood Bowltastic league nights if you're an AMF bowling alley...

The WoJl should be okay too, since warhammer is a generic term. The Warhammer Justice League might have a problem though.

@temprus, that's because DC Comics would object to the "Justice League" bit infringing on their trademark!

starbomber109 wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

Lord of battles wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:They are a business, not some chaotic assembly of monkeys.

How sure are on this?

Given how they write rulebooks, I would not be surprised to find a thousand monkeys banging away on keyboards in their offices...

Maybe someday they'll write the complete works of Shakespeare?

They already have. "Shakespeare" was just the name of the luckiest zookeeper/editor in the world...

Actually DC are pretty easygoing with their IP.
They actually encourage fan art, they are the anti-Disney.

hey the c+d letters are a source of a piss take on you tube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK-cI9bE9Tw

JohnHwangDD wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:Put their name in the paper in a negative light.

Some opportunistic public parasite or other will try to snap up what he perceives as an easy way to gain votes. Get him talking about regulating their business.

Too bad nobody reads newspapers anymore...

More government regulation? HELL, NO. I'd rather GW drove every other manufacturer into bankruptcy with a perpetual, Disneyean non-compete guarantee than have an even larger government bureaucracy managing my hobby!

Ah, you misinterpret: The objective is not to get any actual government regulation past, it's to bombard people with the idea that it might happen and that it's a good thing. If enough of the right people start talking about GW in a negative light, their stocks value drops, which causes the investors to demand action and puts heat on corporate execs. Though if a government audit was to find malfeasance, well, so much the better. If you happen to load the information the public is exposed to in the right manner, the execs have no choice but to bow to pressure or loose their seats on the board.

I think that presumes that a sufficiently large portion of the stock is not held by GW Management. If a controlling portion is held by Kirby & co, they won't do anything more than what has already been done.

Tho, it would be amusing if the thing backfired and GW ended up being shuttered as a result...

LOL If it did, I'd be there to bid on their IP when it went up for auction.

And even if they do, I would hope, at least, they would have the brains to give. We all know they lack media savvy to fight such a campaign.

BaronIveagh wrote:LOL If it did, I'd be there to bid on their IP when it went up for auction.

It would never get that far. If for some reason GW went under, another company would approach them and offer to buy it. See Wizards of the Coast (regarding both the buying of TSR and being bought by Hasbro), Wizkids(bought by Topps), and Rackham for examples.

The things I find funniest about this whole thread is the fact that no-one actually knows what they're boycotting GW for.

If you intend to hold a protest, you need a series of proposals or demands worked out beforehand that you want the company to meet. Instead, this entire thing is just a general rant against Games Workshop. It has no productive aims or goals. It's only objective is to 'make GW aware that they won't get away with XYZ'. Sorry, but they already did. And the fact that you're not clear exactly what you're boycotting for doesn't help.

Allow me to lay out my personal fictitous crusade against GW. The key is combine realism with efficency, reasonableness and attainable goals.
The first step is lay out exactly what me and my group of misguided followers want. Saying, 'charge less for models', would be foolish, as they are ultimately a company. So, for this imaginary campaign, I settle on the following objectives:-

-Renewal of Support for the Lost and Damned army in either a codex or a white dwarf article.
-A set of solid FAQs and errata that are updated regularly.
-Updating the Dark Eldar Codex.

Okay, we have our 3 aims. What's the next step? To make ourselves heard. It's no good complaining to a grunt, we want the people who make the decisions to hear about this. The internet will not be our primary medium for this, as GW tends to ignore it. We have the upcoming season of December, in which little Timmys will be ordering presents in their millions. Our job is to infiltrate our demands into this constant flow to Games Workshop.

So we pick a date, say from the 1st Dec to 14th, a two week period. Up until this point we just acquire support from people prepared to follow our initiative. We start threads on all the major forums, and get people to commit themselves to it. Not only that, we ask for all the forumgoers to get their friends in on it in order to increase the pressure. As we want this to be a global thing, several co-ordinators in various countries would take charge for different timezones. Then here's what we do.

The Co-ordinator allocates people to different days. Say he has 84 people who have pledged their support in his locale. He divides it by 14, getting six people per day. He then messages each person what them/their groups day is. On their predetermined day, each person physically writes a letter to Games Workshop, putting it in 1st Class, in which he outlines one or more of the above demands. All the letters should be reasonable, and point out why they would like to see the objectives they've picked enacted. The co-ordinator can, if they desire, write a template for people to use. Then, having posted their letter, they should also Email a copy of their letter to Games Workshop. If the co-ordinators can track down the appropriate phone numbers, they should distribute them to the various people, who can then also make a call that day, again outlining their letter.

At the end of the two week period, all of the participants will put their names to a petition that the co-ordinator will then send to Games Workshop. This is to re-enforce the point that has already been made.

Further action can then be decided at that point, depending on the response given by GW. The fact is, bombardment of two or three repeated demands from several nations is most likely to filter through to the upper echelons. Not only that, but not only will the news of all the messages get through, the petition is excellent evidence to be presented to the board members when they ask whether there actually is support enough for such changes for them to be financially viable.

Most GW customer feedback is given from garbled accounts given by redshirts. Consumer-led feedback on this scale would make any company sit up and take notice. The key is to be clear about exactly what you want, reasonable enough not to expect the impossible or financially unviable, and organised enough to ensure that what you want is driven home and cannot be ignored as one isolated petty customer.


This is how I would personally organise a campaign for changes with Games Workshop. It's infinitely more likely to succeed than something like this thread. And even if it didn't, you'd have the necessary framework in place to begin a more concerted pressure campaign through the use of bad publicity for GW, protests, boycotts, etc.

My crusade against GW stands until I recieve an unmarked package, 8"x10" filled to the brim with Elysians, Valkyries, and Ork bodies for the bases.

MY DEMANDS ARE NONNEGOTIABLE, HEATHENS!

#1: Don't you belittle my wish for lower prices! You may have money to wipe your butt with but not me.
#2: I want a ruleset that doesn't make me grit my teeth with its obvious stupidity.
#3: I want a 15MM version of the game, so that the weapon ranges aren't so absurd compared to the miniature scale, and everything can be true-scaled.

And yes, these demands are non-negotiable!!!

This is awesome, let's all come up with a list of 3 demands, none of which may repeat any previous list fo 3 demands.

My 3 demands:
1. Warhammer Armies: Dogs of War (for WFB 8)
2. Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs (for WFB 8)
3. Replace WFB VPs with modified KPs

Next!

I won't stop, I just won't buy what they'd want me to.

Hedwerx wrote:Actually DC are pretty easygoing with their IP.

I disagree. A friend of mine opened a downtown nightclub she called, 'Club Gotham'. DC was all over her ass like white on rice when she opened. They sued her for royalties.



Ghidorah

RogueMarket wrote:Its time to go Privateer Press.

Support the coming up company.

eh, i'd rather go and support mantic games, cheaper mini's. besides that awesome packaging and some pretty good metals help.

Ghidorah wrote:

Hedwerx wrote:Actually DC are pretty easygoing with their IP.

I disagree. A friend of mine opened a downtown nightclub she called, 'Club Gotham'. DC was all over her ass like white on rice when she opened. They sued her for royalties.
Ghidorah

They wouldn't have a strong case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotham
fairly widely used word.

Well, she used a batman logo in the sign, too. Well, not the EXACT logo, but close enough that you could tell what it was and what it was referring to. She had to either change her logo or pay some inordinate amount to DC. To be honest, I don't know the details of the legal bits. I really only know about how awesome she looked in leather, dressed as Catwoman for Halloween...

She changed the logo and, after a few years, the bar's name.



Ghidorah

Ketara wrote:The things I find funniest about this whole thread is the fact that no-one actually knows what they're boycotting GW for.

If you intend to hold a protest, you need a series of proposals or demands worked out beforehand that you want the company to meet. Instead, this entire thing is just a general rant against Games Workshop. It has no productive aims or goals. It's only objective is to 'make GW aware that they won't get away with XYZ'. Sorry, but they already did. And the fact that you're not clear exactly what you're boycotting for doesn't help.

Allow me to lay out my personal fictitous crusade against GW.

No one actually knows what they're boycotting GW for? Really? wow I dont know what I'm doing? Others just go with the flow and have no clue about all this? Glad you are here to clear all that for us. Thanks you mate we would be lost without your guidance.

I have clear goals of supporting heavy the competition, in the form of buying their products with the money planned for GW, give exposure to them on the forums in the form of reviews etc and to sculpt for companies labeled like parasites... I hope their sales skyrocket.

My objective is not that GW notice me or my actions or my boycott my objective is to take my business elsewere these months, and support competition... I'm happy if competition gets some extra cash because THEY will notice for sure and my money will be used well, in consequence i feel better about all this strangulation GW giving to HOBBY comunities.

Sure lay your personal personal fictitous crusade against GW and let me put in practice my personal nonfictitous crusade against GW the way i want it.

I said pretty easygoing, not completely apathetic.

The comment was about supporting their fans, which the second line alluded to. Not allowing businesses to make money off their ideas.

Deadshane1 I've been a long time lurker, and I just joined today to tell you that i'm supporting the Boycott, and I've already posted two threads with your original idea in the B&C and Rogue-market.

I hope we can accomplih something.

I also sent GW a formal letter

Let the boycott beginnn

I composed this letter to send to them, feel free to give input and your own additions and maybe build of Shane's idea.

Title: Business practices and attitude to fanbase

Due to price increases, poorer quality miniatures and ignoring of the customer's input on produts and matters of rules and inconsistency of codexes,

I will be boycotting your product for the minimum of 2 months. Between November and December.

I, Adrian Ruiz.

I am not alone in this, already players across the world are preparing to send GW headquarters the message that we need to be addressed and not dismissed.

This is not a message to any worker in particular, this is to be forwarded sincerely to the shareholders and higher-ups.

I can't believe it has come to a matter of boycotting, but your company has been hiking prices unnecessarily and ignoring fan input while not addressing problems within the balance of codexes.

As a fan and consumer of your products I don't demand that you listen to me, but it pains me that the only way to get through to the decision makers is denying purchase of GW products.

I just want to have my opinion be accounted and my input noted, after all our (The fans) purchases are what keep the games workshop business alive.

I implore you all, be more receptive to us. We have been here as long as the company and it has taken several turns I didn't like but respected, but it's gone too far especially in this economic turmoil.

We also have a right to quality products, as a consumer. Which pertains to all aspects of your IP. (Bold)

Emphasized for point, not sarcasm.

The internet is a great method of communication, expect a list of boycottees and others to follow.



*Edit*

The B&C just shot me down, I posted it, got like 40 views and now its gone, no PM, no lock, just gone.

Well, needless to say i'm not discouraged, and I will also be cancelling my account there.

Ghidorah wrote:Well, she used a batman logo in the sign, too. Well, not the EXACT logo, but close enough that you could tell what it was and what it was referring to.

Left that little part out the first time didn't you?

I thought being sued for the word "Gotham" was kinda fethed up...

I thought maybe the club got sued for violating the music licence by serving

dinner dinner dinner dinner... Batmaaaaaan!

Kilkrazy wrote:I thought maybe the club got sued for violating the music licence by serving

dinner dinner dinner dinner... Batmaaaaaan!

now that was just b.a.d.

*Keeraapp!*

NAVARRO wrote:

My objective is not that GW notice me or my actions or my boycott my objective is to take my business elsewere these months, and support competition... I'm happy if competition gets some extra cash because THEY will notice for sure and my money will be used well, in consequence i feel better about all this strangulation GW giving to HOBBY comunities.

Sure lay your personal personal fictitous crusade against GW and let me put in practice my personal nonfictitous crusade against GW the way i want it.

If you're just stopping buying GW goods altogether because you're unhappy with what they do, it's not really a boycott. A boycott is where you go back to them at the end of the period of time. Even if you phrase it as an indefinite boycott, the fact is, you're just not buying their stuff ever, period. It's difficult to actively not do something if you're not doing it anyway.

Therefore what you're doing has nothing to do with Deadshane's Boycott as being practiced in this thread, as you're not just boycotting for two months, you were, still are and are going to abstain altogether. I wouldn't label that a 'crusade' against GW. You're just not having anything to do with them, which is an entirely different kettle of a fish to actively attempting to reform the policies of the company.

And I'd suggest losing the bad sarcasm, it doesn't suit.

Ketara wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

My objective is not that GW notice me or my actions or my boycott my objective is to take my business elsewere these months, and support competition... I'm happy if competition gets some extra cash because THEY will notice for sure and my money will be used well, in consequence i feel better about all this strangulation GW giving to HOBBY comunities.

Sure lay your personal personal fictitous crusade against GW and let me put in practice my personal nonfictitous crusade against GW the way i want it.

If you're just stopping buying GW goods altogether because you're unhappy with what they do, it's not really a boycott. A boycott is where you go back to them at the end of the period of time. Even if you phrase it as an indefinite boycott, the fact is, you're just not buying their stuff ever, period. It's difficult to actively not do something if you're not doing it anyway.

Therefore what you're doing has nothing to do with Deadshane's Boycott as being practiced in this thread, as you're not just boycotting for two months, you were, still are and are going to abstain altogether. I wouldn't label that a 'crusade' against GW. You're just not having anything to do with them, which is an entirely different kettle of a fish to actively attempting to reform the policies of the company.

And I'd suggest losing the bad sarcasm, it doesn't suit.

Sigh...
First things first, just to make it easier for you to understand, no pinch of sarcasm here... not before not now.

You assume to much with the little information you have, thats why your conclusions are not accurate and somewhat patronizing...
Thats why you dont know; that I buy lots of GW stuff and that I will stop now for some months and then get back to it at a later date...2 months from now? who the hell knows? in 2 months much can happen...
Blows me away your assumptions and your strange attempt to put me and people inside YOUR personal little boxes of closed definitions...specially when you dont know jack shiat about my shopping and hobby patterns.

Dravenguild wrote:I composed this letter to send to them, feel free to give input and your own additions and maybe build of Shane's idea.

Title: Business practices and attitude to fanbase

Due to price increases, poorer quality miniatures and ignoring of the customer's input on produts and matters of rules and inconsistency of codexes,

I will be boycotting your product for the minimum of 2 months. Between November and December.

I, Adrian Ruiz.

I am not alone in this, already players across the world are preparing to send GW headquarters the message that we need to be addressed and not dismissed.

This is not a message to any worker in particular, this is to be forwarded sincerely to the shareholders and higher-ups.

I can't believe it has come to a matter of boycotting, but your company has been hiking prices unnecessarily and ignoring fan input while not addressing problems within the balance of codexes.

As a fan and consumer of your products I don't demand that you listen to me, but it pains me that the only way to get through to the decision makers is denying purchase of GW products.

I just want to have my opinion be accounted and my input noted, after all our (The fans) purchases are what keep the games workshop business alive.

I implore you all, be more receptive to us. We have been here as long as the company and it has taken several turns I didn't like but respected, but it's gone too far especially in this economic turmoil.

We also have a right to quality products, as a consumer. Which pertains to all aspects of your IP. (Bold)

Emphasized for point, not sarcasm.

The internet is a great method of communication, expect a list of boycottees and others to follow.



*Edit*

The B&C just shot me down, I posted it, got like 40 views and now its gone, no PM, no lock, just gone.

Well, needless to say i'm not discouraged, and I will also be cancelling my account there.

Sounds good. I'll be sending something similar out monday.