Artefacts:
Solar Staff
Veil of Darkness
Gauntlet of the Conflagrator
Voidreaper
Nightmare Shroud
Orb of Eternity
Hopefully no one has glued dispersion shields on to their necron lords yet, looks like it's not an option.
The Mephrit Dynasty is looking pretty good to me, their Artefacts are a better. The rerollable 2+ save is awesome with a +1 to str for weapons. God shackle is nice, don't see anything like that in the necron codex. The warscythe with precision strikes is nice as well.
I do like the Guantlet of the Conflagrator since it looks like crypteks lost ALL of their flavor. So much for Harbingers.
Gauntlet of Fire, Phase Shifter, Staff of the Destroyer: 18", S6 AP2, Assault 3
IC, RP, It will not die, Hyperlogical Strategist trait
Lord of the Swarm: Night fighting is always in effect during first game turn. Once per game, at start of friendly shooting phase, roll a D6 for each enemy unit within 48" of Imootekh. On a 5+, that unit suffers D6 Strength 6 AP- hits, randomly allocated.
Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs: Flayed Ones can re-roll scatter dice when deep striking
Imotkeh's Staff of the Destroyer is MUCH better now (the one use thing was butts before and you know it), has IWND base, Lord of the Storm is actually buffed quite a frelling bit, and Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs + new Flayed Ones is quite good!
Sorry, but Imotek's Lord of the Storm ability got nerfed hard (thankfully). Yes, he has a better chance at hitting, but its at a reduced strength (previously was S8), and is only activated once per game instead of typically 3-5 times per game. Since it can only target units within 48" of Imotek, that could insinuate that cover saves can be taken, and he can no longer fire it off while in the safe confines of reserves or in a Nightscythe.
I'm personally glad that ability got nerfed hard, it was easily the most aggravating part of playing my opponent's Necrons. He had an uncanny knack for blowing up or hulling vehicles, and since he can't reroll those lightning strikes anymore with a chronometron, I'm even happier!
When he posted it, he simply said "At the start of every Shooting phase, roll a d6 for each enemy unit in 48" and on a 5+...", which makes me think that it's no longer limited by Night Fighting. If so, then it's a very, very good ability. If it's still bound to only Night Fighting, then you're right.
It doesn't read like its bound to Night Fighting, but even so, its still a big nerf.
I dunno, I have to disagree. The power of the shots is less effective for sure, but the fact that it's all game long and more likely to go off balances that out quite a bit in my opinion. There was nothing quite as frustrating to me as going "yay it's still Night Fight! Oh, rolling 6s is annoying and most of your army is in reserve. Oh, Night Fight ended after one turn and now your whole army came on. Oh well I guess...".
Red Corsair wrote: Looks like you guys can all calm down with the dispersion shield conversions
That list isn't including the Technoarcana....
Do you know there's a difference between items reported in the "Wargear List" and those put in the TechnoArcana section?
So rather than being a little gak, you could try saying "Since it was posted on the other forum that this is the HQ wargear options, where as here it's just a list without that label."
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can mve over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths (40 points per model)
Any model may take one of the following:
Whip Coils - 3 pts per model Particle caster - 5pts per model Transdimensional beamer - 10pts per model
They really want people to continue to use Wraiths. T5 W2 3++ Ignores Terrain (except for charging), still S6 Rending... dangit the FA slot is STACKED.
Oh... my god.
GW... what are you doing? Strength 5 and no nerfs is only worth a +5ppm increase?
Well, there' your answer to MC's now, Necron players. You can quit bitching now.
He doesn't have super-scoring, he doesn't have anything like the old MSS, his weapon is crap and it's effect is somehow even more useless than before (if you can believe that). What's the point of taking him?
Moreover, if he dies, why would you want him back? You're sacrificing a useful character to revive a crap one.
His model is ugly (imo), his rules are boring, get the sculpt out of my way
He was my favourite of the Necron characters. I'd really hoped that he'd be worth using.
I am sorry for you bro! I lost the T-C'tan on my side an the old deceiver and nightbringer and my wraith sculpt those were my favorite - and I do not like any of the new sculpts except the vault and t-C'tan - so I know your pain, but sorry if that wass rude on my part dude!
docdoom77 wrote: So deathmarks only get the 2+ for one turn? Suck. Oh well. It's not terrible. Hopefully they can cripple or destroy the target right away.
Oh and it only works if they arrive from deepstrike. I guess I won't be putting them in a Nightscythe now.
Veil of Darkness is considered Deepstriking, so with a Cryptek with the veil, they can get two turns out of it.
docdoom77 wrote: So deathmarks only get the 2+ for one turn? Suck. Oh well. It's not terrible. Hopefully they can cripple or destroy the target right away.
Oh and it only works if they arrive from deepstrike. I guess I won't be putting them in a Nightscythe now.
Veil of Darkness is considered Deepstriking, so with a Cryptek with the veil, they can get two turns out of it.
Oh, clever. Especially since it now can take them out of Assault if they get charged after they DS. Veil + Gauntlet Cryptek with Deathmarks is still kind of just a gimmick unit, but that improves the gimmick quite a bit.
Folks over on The Tyranid Hive are pretty upset about the Decurion seeming mandatory. To clarify, the BRB gives the option to be battleforged to everyone, correct?
Don't recall seeing it in the thread previously and I apologize if it was already posted but anyone else notice that Rod of Convenant is no longer unwieldy in CC?
I see no restriction for ghost arks occupants from the leaked page. So I would guess you CAN put lychguard into them. The only parts missing from the transports were the capacities but I have never seen such a restriction placed there, still, COULD be a first. Still hope for that combo.
I am still disappointed that wraiths are the FA auto take again. I wanted them to remain good, but not the, your crazy not to take these fellas choice. Right now their only real competition IMHO are scoped tomb blades and the transports.
Why oh earth are heavy destroyers a on per upgrade
Red Corsair wrote: I see no restriction for ghost arks occupants from the leaked page. So I would guess you CAN put lychguard into them. The only parts missing from the transports were the capacities but I have never seen such a restriction placed there, still, COULD be a first. Still hope for that combo.
I am still disappointed that wraiths are the FA auto take again. I wanted them to remain good, but not the, your crazy not to take these fellas choice. Right now their only real competition IMHO are scoped tomb blades and the transports.
Why oh earth are heavy destroyers a on per upgrade
Ghost ark can only take Warriors and Characters, but it only has 10 slots. Warriors are now a minimum of 10 per unit.
Red Corsair wrote: I see no restriction for ghost arks occupants from the leaked page. So I would guess you CAN put lychguard into them. The only parts missing from the transports were the capacities but I have never seen such a restriction placed there, still, COULD be a first. Still hope for that combo.
Okay, about the formations. Once again peeps, there is NO Force Org Chart. The way they want you to build this army, apparently, is to clump a bunch of these formations together. This time I am also posting the Formation special rules.
Special Rules: Moves Through Cover, Relentless
You can re-roll reanimation rolls of 1 for the overlord, or units within 12" of him
1-10 choices of the following per reclamation legion:
(0 to 1) Royal Court=
1 Overlord
1-3 Lords
1-3 Crypteks
Special Rules: Move through cover, relentless
If overlord for this formation is your warlord, you can re-roll warlord traits when using Codex Cron warlord traits table.
Judicator Battatlion=
1 unit of Triach Stalkers
2 units of Triarch Praetorians
Special Rules: Move Through Cover
At start of shooting phase, pick an enemy within LOS of Triarch Stalker. Re-roll failed to hit, to wound, and armour penetration rolls against the target until end of turn.
Destroyer Cult=
1 Destroyer Lord
3 units of destroyers
0-1 units of heavy destroyers
Special Rules: Move through cover
If this formation is your primary detachment, can re-roll for Warlord Traits
Units in this formation re-roll failed to wound and armour penetration rolls
Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
Star God=
1 C'Tan Shard f the Deceiver, Shard of the Nightbringer, Transcendent C'Tan or Tessaract Vault
Special Rules:
If Doomsday Ark from this formation loses it's quantum shielding, choose an annihilation barge within 6". The barge loses its quantum shielding, and the Doomsday ark gets Quantum shielding instead.
Flayed Ones=
1 unit of Flayed Ones
Living Tomb=
1 Obelisk
0-2 Monoloths
Special Rules: Formation must be placed in Deep Strike reserve. Do not make reserve rlls fr the Obelisk, it automatically arrives on your turn 2. Monoliths do not scatter when deep striking if placed within 12" of the Obelisk.
Immediately after a Monoloths arrives frm this formation, choose one friendly Cron unit nthat is entirely infantry or jump infantry that is in reserve. Place it as though disembarking from the Monolith's eternity gate.
Deathmarks=
1 unit of Deathmarks
Deathbringer Flight
2-4 Doomscythes
Special Rules:
When Doom Scythe from this formation fires a death ray, add 2 to BS for each other Doom Scythe from this formation that shot at the enemy this turn.
All enemy units within 12" of at least two Doom Scythes from this formation have -1 Ld.
I don't see this preventing the use of Leviathan or the CAD as alternatives though.
King Pariah wrote:Don't recall seeing it in the thread previously and I apologize if it was already posted but anyone else notice that Rod of Convenant is no longer unwieldy in CC?
Correct. S User AP2 Two Handed Unwieldy.
buddha wrote:Wow, the tesseract vault is a mere fast attack choice. Crazy. Along with the Obelisk we have 2 superheavies in the normal dex.
He didn't say a slot. His response of "Fast Attack" was about the Ghost Ark and Night Scythe. He said Super Heavy and 550 points, which makes me think Lord of War.
Red Corsair wrote:I see no restriction for ghost arks occupants from the leaked page. So I would guess you CAN put lychguard into them. The only parts missing from the transports were the capacities but I have never seen such a restriction placed there, still, COULD be a first. Still hope for that combo.
I am still disappointed that wraiths are the FA auto take again. I wanted them to remain good, but not the, your crazy not to take these fellas choice. Right now their only real competition IMHO are scoped tomb blades and the transports.
Why oh earth are heavy destroyers a on per upgrade
The Ghost Ark leak page clearly says "Warriors and Characters only" in the bottom right.
Because Heavy Destroyers can now be taken as Heavy Support options as their own squad, if that leak is true.
Red Corsair wrote: I see no restriction for ghost arks occupants from the leaked page. So I would guess you CAN put lychguard into them. The only parts missing from the transports were the capacities but I have never seen such a restriction placed there, still, COULD be a first. Still hope for that combo.
I am still disappointed that wraiths are the FA auto take again. I wanted them to remain good, but not the, your crazy not to take these fellas choice. Right now their only real competition IMHO are scoped tomb blades and the transports.
Why oh earth are heavy destroyers a on per upgrade
Destroyers seem very good to me, but I feel you on the transports. I'm kicking around the idea of Destroyers, Wraiths and a Ghost Ark taking my three FA slots.
They can't be reading things right. We'll still have access to the CAD, but both the Mephrit detachment and the Decurion detachment also count as battleforged.
Special Rules:
If Doomsday Ark from this formation loses it's quantum shielding, choose an annihilation barge within 6". The barge loses its quantum shielding, and the Doomsday ark gets Quantum shielding instead.
Well, that's how you stop your doomsday arc from needing to jink...
Living Tomb=
1 Obelisk
0-2 Monoloths
Special Rules: Formation must be placed in Deep Strike reserve. Do not make reserve rlls fr the Obelisk, it automatically arrives on your turn 2. Monoliths do not scatter when deep striking if placed within 12" of the Obelisk.
Immediately after a Monoloths arrives frm this formation, choose one friendly Cron unit nthat is entirely infantry or jump infantry that is in reserve. Place it as though disembarking from the Monolith's eternity gate.
Yummy, yummy... Lychguard to the face. Sad that it can't be wraiths anymore.
Anpu-adom wrote: They can't be reading things right. We'll still have access to the CAD, but both the Mephrit detachment and the Decurion detachment also count as battleforged.
Yep lots of different ways to build an army now.
hell you can have an inquisitorial detachment and still be battle forged with no troops.
a Combined arms detachment gives you obsec
the other ones gives you all sorts of other bonus instead.
King Pariah wrote:Don't recall seeing it in the thread previously and I apologize if it was already posted but anyone else notice that Rod of Convenant is no longer unwieldy in CC?
Correct. S User AP2 Two Handed Unwieldy.
buddha wrote:Wow, the tesseract vault is a mere fast attack choice. Crazy. Along with the Obelisk we have 2 superheavies in the normal dex.
He didn't say a slot. His response of "Fast Attack" was about the Ghost Ark and Night Scythe. He said Super Heavy and 550 points, which makes me think Lord of War.
Red Corsair wrote:I see no restriction for ghost arks occupants from the leaked page. So I would guess you CAN put lychguard into them. The only parts missing from the transports were the capacities but I have never seen such a restriction placed there, still, COULD be a first. Still hope for that combo.
I am still disappointed that wraiths are the FA auto take again. I wanted them to remain good, but not the, your crazy not to take these fellas choice. Right now their only real competition IMHO are scoped tomb blades and the transports.
Why oh earth are heavy destroyers a on per upgrade
The Ghost Ark leak page clearly says "Warriors and Characters only" in the bottom right.
Because Heavy Destroyers can now be taken as Heavy Support options as their own squad, if that leak is true.
Ah good catch, unfortunate about the GA. Hope you are right about the heavy destroyers being a heavy slot as well. Man tacheon arrows are way better now that OL are bs 5. Always loved those things.
Wilson wrote: Pretty sure Necrons have just been improved massively. ( T5 Wraiths with reanimation protocols?!)
Hate the duran duran formation thingy though.
No RP on wraiths. Just a 3++
Yea, JUST
IDK the buffs seem great but with Dlords being much slower and no semp weave, they can't tank for the unit which is probably why they thought they needed the T bump.
"If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
...the Necrn Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."
"If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
...the Necrn Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."
Looks like Combined Arms Detachments and Allied Detachments are good to go. Looks like the guy with the codex is still unclear but that seems clear cut to me.
I mean they're all Detachments, we just get a special one for Necrons
"Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase."
"If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
...the Necrn Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."
Looks like Combined Arms Detachments and Allied Detachments are good to go. Looks like the guy with the codex is still unclear but that seems clear cut to me.
I mean they're all Detachments, we just get a special one for Necrons
Yeah sorry, I am a little unfirm in the detachement and combined arms-rules, could you explain a little.
"If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
...the Necrn Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."
Looks like Combined Arms Detachments and Allied Detachments are good to go. Looks like the guy with the codex is still unclear but that seems clear cut to me.
I mean they're all Detachments, we just get a special one for Necrons
"Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase."
"Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase."
"If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
...the Necrn Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."
Looks like Combined Arms Detachments and Allied Detachments are good to go. Looks like the guy with the codex is still unclear but that seems clear cut to me.
I mean they're all Detachments, we just get a special one for Necrons
You mean besides the "Instead you will need to" ?
How would that work with allied detachments?
Well that's the opening line of Battle-Forged Armies in the rulebook
A player using the Battle-forged method must organise all the units they want to use into Detachments.
EDIT:
Sorry to elaborate, I think he may have cut off some statement early on relating to Unbound. I'm going to check the wording on Blood Angels or Dark Eldar.
"If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
...the Necrn Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."
Looks like Combined Arms Detachments and Allied Detachments are good to go. Looks like the guy with the codex is still unclear but that seems clear cut to me.
I mean they're all Detachments, we just get a special one for Necrons
You mean besides the "Instead you will need to" ?
How would that work with allied detachments?
Well that's the opening line of Battle-Forged Armies in the rulebook
A player using the Battle-forged method must organise all the units they want to use into Detachments.
ok But how can you make a Combined arms detachment when you must instead use the duran duran detachment when making a battle forged list?
"Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase."
Post of the year so far!
It's not that bad, scarabs and spiders are a heavy tax for the wraiths and everything needs to be within a 12" of the spyder. Kill that spyder first I guess
"If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
...the Necrn Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."
Looks like Combined Arms Detachments and Allied Detachments are good to go. Looks like the guy with the codex is still unclear but that seems clear cut to me.
I mean they're all Detachments, we just get a special one for Necrons
You mean besides the "Instead you will need to" ?
How would that work with allied detachments?
Well that's the opening line of Battle-Forged Armies in the rulebook
A player using the Battle-forged method must organise all the units they want to use into Detachments.
ok But how can you make a Combined arms detachment when you must instead use the duran duran detachment when making a battle forged list?
You don't "must" anything
"If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
...the Necrn Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."
Combined Arms Detachment is a Detachment. Decurion is a type of Detachment that you can CHOOSE to use. You don't HAVE to choose it.
Red Corsair wrote: Yea except that is from a day after your bitching when someone brought the point up.
And? You [tried] to make a cheap shot about me not admitting that C'tan being able to use two powers a turn would be baller, like twelve hours after I explicitly stated that it would.
Why not just admit that you dun fethed up? We can all see it.
ClockworkZion wrote: Canoptek Harvest= 1 Canoptek Spyder 1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths 1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
Shred makes them nasty as hell against MC's. How does RP work on multi-wound models They just get back up with one? That's still pretty good for a tar-pit.
This looks to be an excellent Codex update. Tone down the broken spammed stuff (Nightscythes / Command Barges / MSS) and instead spread the love throughout the Codex so that there are many balanced effective options.
If that canoptek formation actually only includes a single spyder (and not a unit of 3), it's not as good as it sounds. All the special rules need that spyder to be alive and within 12" of the wraiths. Quite limiting really.
Red Corsair wrote: Yea except that is from a day after your bitching when someone brought the point up.
And? You made a cheap shot about me not admitting that C'tan being able to use two powers a turn would be baller, like twelve hours after I explicitly stated that it would.
ClockworkZion wrote: Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
Shred makes them nasty as hell against MC's. How does RP work on multi-wound models They just get back up with one?
Red Corsair wrote: Yea except that is from a day after your bitching when someone brought the point up.
And? You [tried] to make a cheap shot about me not admitting that C'tan being able to use two powers a turn would be baller, like twelve hours after I explicitly stated that it would.
Why not just admit that you dun fethed up? We can all see it.
ClockworkZion wrote: Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
Shred makes them nasty as hell against MC's. How does RP work on multi-wound models They just get back up with one?
models do not get up again, they test each unsafed wound immedeatly! on 5+ or 4+ they do not suffer said wound.
Canoptek Harvest says the models have to be within 12" of the spyder to get the benefits. Good luck making it keep up with the scarabs and wraiths, or just keeping it alive.
"If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
...the Necrn Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."
Looks like Combined Arms Detachments and Allied Detachments are good to go. Looks like the guy with the codex is still unclear but that seems clear cut to me.
I mean they're all Detachments, we just get a special one for Necrons
You mean besides the "Instead you will need to" ?
How would that work with allied detachments?
Well that's the opening line of Battle-Forged Armies in the rulebook
A player using the Battle-forged method must organise all the units they want to use into Detachments.
ok But how can you make a Combined arms detachment when you must instead use the duran duran detachment when making a battle forged list?
But I don't read it like that. I read it like "If you're going to go with a Battle-Forged list, you need to use detachments, here's a special detachment you can take in any Battle Forged army"
As the only two methods of army building are Battle-Forged and Unbound and Battle-Forged uses detachments (and the rules for detachments allow for any number and variety of detachments) unless there is a specific restriction I'm not reading there I don't think it is required.
However this is a discussion for another thread after the Codex is out, see you in YMDC Saturday
"If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
...the Necrn Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."
Looks like Combined Arms Detachments and Allied Detachments are good to go. Looks like the guy with the codex is still unclear but that seems clear cut to me.
I mean they're all Detachments, we just get a special one for Necrons
You mean besides the "Instead you will need to" ?
How would that work with allied detachments?
Well that's the opening line of Battle-Forged Armies in the rulebook
A player using the Battle-forged method must organise all the units they want to use into Detachments.
ok But how can you make a Combined arms detachment when you must instead use the duran duran detachment when making a battle forged list?
It doesn't say you MUST use it instead. It saysyou need to form them into detatchments. Combined arms is a detachment.
"If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
...the Necrn Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."
Looks like Combined Arms Detachments and Allied Detachments are good to go. Looks like the guy with the codex is still unclear but that seems clear cut to me.
I mean they're all Detachments, we just get a special one for Necrons
You mean besides the "Instead you will need to" ?
How would that work with allied detachments?
Well that's the opening line of Battle-Forged Armies in the rulebook
A player using the Battle-forged method must organise all the units they want to use into Detachments.
ok But how can you make a Combined arms detachment when you must instead use the duran duran detachment when making a battle forged list?
It doesn't say you MUST use it instead. It saysyou need to form them into detatchments. Combined arms is a detachment.
If you are using the Unbound method, simply use the datasheets later in this section that correspond to the Necron models in your collection. If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied detachments. Note that you can also include any of the formations presented in this section as part of a battle-forged army.
Furthermore, the Necron Decurion Deachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army. Unlike the detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles. However, it still has compulsory and optional elements, as well as restrictions and command benefits, just like any other detachment.
Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment.
Yup, looks like old FOC options are still options.
"If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
...the Necrn Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."
Looks like Combined Arms Detachments and Allied Detachments are good to go. Looks like the guy with the codex is still unclear but that seems clear cut to me.
I mean they're all Detachments, we just get a special one for Necrons
You mean besides the "Instead you will need to" ?
How would that work with allied detachments?
Well that's the opening line of Battle-Forged Armies in the rulebook
A player using the Battle-forged method must organise all the units they want to use into Detachments.
ok But how can you make a Combined arms detachment when you must instead use the duran duran detachment when making a battle forged list?
It doesn't say you MUST use it instead. It saysyou need to form them into detatchments. Combined arms is a detachment.
Oh balls i really did read that wrong and combined the first and second sentence
If you are using the Unbound method, simply use the datasheets later in this section that correspond to the Necron models in your collection. If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied detachments. Note that you can also include any of the formations presented in this section as part of a battle-forged army.
Furthermore, the Necron Decurion Deachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army. Unlike the detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles. However, it still has compulsory and optional elements, as well as restrictions and command benefits, just like any other detachment.
Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment.
Yup, looks like old FOC options are still options.
If you are using the Unbound method, simply use the datasheets later in this section that correspond to the Necron models in your collection. If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied detachments. Note that you can also include any of the formations presented in this section as part of a battle-forged army.
Furthermore, the Necron Decurion Deachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army. Unlike the detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles. However, it still has compulsory and optional elements, as well as restrictions and command benefits, just like any other detachment.
Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment.
Yup, looks like old FOC options are still options.
This is so confusing, even to me man!
Basically you can go Unbound, use CAD, make them allies, use other FOC Detachments (IA12, Exterminatus) or you can use the special Decurion Detachment in the book.
Basically they're saying you have options to play with is all.
RivenSkull wrote: That being said, how are you tp add Lords and Crypteks without the Reclamation Legion
They're just HQ choices. Lords are cheap versions of Overlords, kind of like how Captains are cheap versions of Chapter Masters (if I'm not mistaken, I don't play SM but I think that's how it works).
I LOVE the minimum ten warriors! So oldschool and fluffy! Makes the flyer spamming even more hard. And this codex will require a lot more skill with all those partly one use weapons and items: tactis are coming back to this ARMY YEAH!!!!!
Drakmord wrote: Folks over on The Tyranid Hive are pretty upset about the Decurion seeming mandatory. To clarify, the BRB gives the option to be battleforged to everyone, correct?
The exact excerpt from Codex is as follows:
"If you are using the Unbound method, simply use the datasheets later in this section that correspond to the Necron models in your collection. If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied detachments. Note that you can also include any of the formations presented in this section as part of a battle-forged army.
Furthermore, the Necron Decurion Deachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army. Unlike the detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles. However, it still has compulsory and optional elements, as well as restrictions and command benefits, just like any other detachment.
Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment."
The bold part nails it. Classic FoC as we know it is now Combined Arms Detachment and as per Rulebook (p.122) can be used in ANY battle-forged army.
The reason why some codexes can't use that and have their own mandatory FoC (Inquisition, Knights) is because those do not have untis that would satisfy requirements of 'normal' FOC.
TL;DR - Yes. Necrons can use normal FoC we are so used to. And add allies. And add formations. Or use Decurion as primary detachment. Or as secondary. LOTS of OPTIONS.
RivenSkull wrote: That being said, how are you tp add Lords and Crypteks without the Reclamation Legion
They're HQ choices. How do you normally take HQ choices?
Requizen wrote:
RivenSkull wrote: That being said, how are you tp add Lords and Crypteks without the Reclamation Legion
They're just HQ choices. Lords are cheap versions of Overlords, kind of like how Captains are cheap versions of Chapter Masters (if I'm not mistaken, I don't play SM but I think that's how it works).
I had meant Multiple. Whoops
I realize they are now regular HQ's and there probably is less reason than in the last codex to take as many
Red Corsair wrote: Yea except that is from a day after your bitching when someone brought the point up.
And? You [tried] to make a cheap shot about me not admitting that C'tan being able to use two powers a turn would be baller, like twelve hours after I explicitly stated that it would.
Why not just admit that you dun fethed up? We can all see it.
ClockworkZion wrote: Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
Shred makes them nasty as hell against MC's. How does RP work on multi-wound models They just get back up with one? That's still pretty good for a tar-pit.
What? You were wrong and still are for griping without the whole story. Period. You complained ad nausseum about random sucking until it was pointed out there probably will be more to it. You never admitted to being premature, and I don't expect you will. Keep fighting that internet crusade though bub. You look *whicked* cool guy.
RivenSkull wrote: That being said, how are you tp add Lords and Crypteks without the Reclamation Legion
They're HQ choices. How do you normally take HQ choices?
Requizen wrote:
RivenSkull wrote: That being said, how are you tp add Lords and Crypteks without the Reclamation Legion
They're just HQ choices. Lords are cheap versions of Overlords, kind of like how Captains are cheap versions of Chapter Masters (if I'm not mistaken, I don't play SM but I think that's how it works).
I had meant Multiple. Whoops
I realize they are now regular HQ's and there probably is less reason than in the last codex to take as many
They're too expensive to take multiple anyway. Grabbing one or two Crytpeks for the +1 to RP is going to be normal, but we're no longer going to see 5 Crypteks and several Lords. Which sucks for people who have multiples of them :\
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:ANother buff towards the monolith! Yeah! Gauss flux arc went from str4 ap5 to str 5 ap 4
Too bad they're still only Snap Shooting thanks to the Ordinance gun
The one unit I expected to get Nerfed, Wraiths, got a huge buff...
So far, things are looking REALLY good.
The Decurian seems like an easy choice, if you want to get those extra crypteks. Time will tell if it is needed or not.
Still... I am impressed... Things are looking really good right now. I will lament the loss of our 2+ weaves though. The fact that we don't have that option seems pretty silly.
RivenSkull wrote: That being said, how are you tp add Lords and Crypteks without the Reclamation Legion
They're HQ choices. How do you normally take HQ choices?
Requizen wrote:
RivenSkull wrote: That being said, how are you tp add Lords and Crypteks without the Reclamation Legion
They're just HQ choices. Lords are cheap versions of Overlords, kind of like how Captains are cheap versions of Chapter Masters (if I'm not mistaken, I don't play SM but I think that's how it works).
I had meant Multiple. Whoops
I realize they are now regular HQ's and there probably is less reason than in the last codex to take as many
Just take a royal court and split it up since they all have IC.
Red Corsair wrote: Yea except that is from a day after your bitching when someone brought the point up.
And? You [tried] to make a cheap shot about me not admitting that C'tan being able to use two powers a turn would be baller, like twelve hours after I explicitly stated that it would.
Why not just admit that you dun fethed up? We can all see it.
ClockworkZion wrote: Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
Shred makes them nasty as hell against MC's. How does RP work on multi-wound models They just get back up with one? That's still pretty good for a tar-pit.
What? You were wrong and still are for griping without the whole story. Period. You complained ad nausseum about random sucking until it was pointed out there probably will be more to it. You never admitted to being premature, and I don't expect you will. Keep fighting that internet crusade though bub. You look *whicked* cool guy.
Hey dude do not bother with this: there is a codex to celebrate
It uses plural language when describing the powers. MC's can fire two weapons a turn. Granted, it doesn't say explicitly that it can fire two a turn - but it's not unreasonable to think it can.
"models armed with powers of the ctan can use them as a range weapon in their shooting phase [..] each time a model uses powers of the ctan choose a model as normal"
and they are mcs scroll down: powers of the c'tan)
They're too expensive to take multiple anyway. Grabbing one or two Crytpeks for the +1 to RP is going to be normal, but we're no longer going to see 5 Crypteks and several Lords. Which sucks for people who have multiples of them :\
Yeah, I'm sitting on 15 Cryptek conversions and 7 Lord conversions
Red Corsair wrote: Yea except that is from a day after your bitching when someone brought the point up.
And? You [tried] to make a cheap shot about me not admitting that C'tan being able to use two powers a turn would be baller, like twelve hours after I explicitly stated that it would.
Why not just admit that you dun fethed up? We can all see it.
ClockworkZion wrote: Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
Shred makes them nasty as hell against MC's. How does RP work on multi-wound models They just get back up with one? That's still pretty good for a tar-pit.
What? You were wrong and still are for griping without the whole story. Period. You complained ad nausseum about random sucking until it was pointed out there probably will be more to it. You never admitted to being premature, and I don't expect you will. Keep fighting that internet crusade though bub. You look *whicked* cool guy.
Hey dude do not bother with this: there is a codex to celebrate
No your right. I just can't stand the complainers that pop up days before anything concrete hits, who then refuse to admit they should have waited for all the data. It's actually a pep peeve I have with most people in general.
Necrons look awesome, I am glad they will play differently.
It uses plural language when describing the powers. MC's can fire two weapons a turn. Granted, it doesn't say explicitly that it can fire two a turn - but it's not unreasonable to think it can.
models armed with powers of the ctan as a range weapon in their shooting phase [..] each time a model uses powers of the ctan choose a model as normal
That's... a very loose interpretation imo. Using plural might just be talking about separate turns. And it's only listed once in their profile. If any other MC had a weapon listed once in their profile, it could only fire it once per turn, not like they could fire Transdimensional Thunderbolt twice in the last edition.
RivenSkull wrote: They're too expensive to take multiple anyway. Grabbing one or two Crytpeks for the +1 to RP is going to be normal, but we're no longer going to see 5 Crypteks and several Lords. Which sucks for people who have multiples of them :\
Yeah, I'm sitting on 15 Cryptek conversions and 7 Lord conversions
Hmmmm, I am thinking they would make awesome counts as lychguard (lords) and praetorians (crypteks).
RivenSkull wrote: They're too expensive to take multiple anyway. Grabbing one or two Crytpeks for the +1 to RP is going to be normal, but we're no longer going to see 5 Crypteks and several Lords. Which sucks for people who have multiples of them :\
Yeah, I'm sitting on 15 Cryptek conversions and 7 Lord conversions
It uses plural language when describing the powers. MC's can fire two weapons a turn. Granted, it doesn't say explicitly that it can fire two a turn - but it's not unreasonable to think it can.
models armed with powers of the ctan as a range weapon in their shooting phase [..] each time a model uses powers of the ctan choose a model as normal
That's... a very loose interpretation imo. Using plural might just be talking about separate turns. And it's only listed once in their profile. If any other MC had a weapon listed once in their profile, it could only fire it once per turn, not like they could fire Transdimensional Thunderbolt twice in the last edition.
He's not taking it loosely though. It says they can use it in place of a rnaged attack and MC's get 2 standard. Unless it specifically says they can't I'd say they have more fuel in the tank to argue for it then against it.
It uses plural language when describing the powers. MC's can fire two weapons a turn. Granted, it doesn't say explicitly that it can fire two a turn - but it's not unreasonable to think it can.
models armed with powers of the ctan as a range weapon in their shooting phase [..] each time a model uses powers of the ctan choose a model as normal
That's... a very loose interpretation imo. Using plural might just be talking about separate turns. And it's only listed once in their profile. If any other MC had a weapon listed once in their profile, it could only fire it once per turn, not like they could fire Transdimensional Thunderbolt twice in the last edition.
So we need a little rules debate but I think RAW is on my side. (Faq maybe)
C'Tan can't shoot multiple powers since each power translates into the same ranged weapon with different profiles, and albeit you can shoot with 2 different ranged weapons at the same target (given the MC status), you can't use the same weapon TWICE
RivenSkull wrote: They're too expensive to take multiple anyway. Grabbing one or two Crytpeks for the +1 to RP is going to be normal, but we're no longer going to see 5 Crypteks and several Lords. Which sucks for people who have multiples of them :\
Yeah, I'm sitting on 15 Cryptek conversions and 7 Lord conversions
You can always take a Royal Court formation attached to a normal CAD so if you REALLY want extras you can still get some.
Necrons look awesome, I am glad they will play differently.
I think my biggest gripe is that much of the odd abilities and gear are gone. They feel much more generic than what got me into Necrons with the 3rd edition codex, which makes me feel like I'm less likely to enjoy playing them.
It is indeed only listed once, but its a special profile weapon with unique rules. In fact, I think the proper interpretation of the Powers is that they are best treated as six different weapons each C'tan is armed with. That's what the language seems to suggest.
KurtAngle2 wrote: C'Tan can't shoot multiple powers since each power translates into the same ranged weapon with different profiles, and albeit you can shoot with 2 different ranged weapons at the same target (given the MC status), you can't use the same weapon TWICE
Not sure I agree, its a list of 6 different ranged powers all with different profiles. I can see your stance now though as well.
It uses plural language when describing the powers. MC's can fire two weapons a turn. Granted, it doesn't say explicitly that it can fire two a turn - but it's not unreasonable to think it can.
models armed with powers of the ctan as a range weapon in their shooting phase [..] each time a model uses powers of the ctan choose a model as normal
That's... a very loose interpretation imo. Using plural might just be talking about separate turns. And it's only listed once in their profile. If any other MC had a weapon listed once in their profile, it could only fire it once per turn, not like they could fire Transdimensional Thunderbolt twice in the last edition.
He's not taking it loosely though. It says they can use it in place of a rnaged attack and MC's get 2 standard. Unless it specifically says they can't I'd say they have more fuel in the tank to argue for it then against it.
actually it says "it can use them as A ranged weapon".
KurtAngle2 wrote: C'Tan can't shoot multiple powers since each power translates into the same ranged weapon with different profiles, and albeit you can shoot with 2 different ranged weapons at the same target (given the MC status), you can't use the same weapon TWICE
It uses plural language when describing the powers. MC's can fire two weapons a turn. Granted, it doesn't say explicitly that it can fire two a turn - but it's not unreasonable to think it can.
models armed with powers of the ctan as a range weapon in their shooting phase [..] each time a model uses powers of the ctan choose a model as normal
That's... a very loose interpretation imo. Using plural might just be talking about separate turns. And it's only listed once in their profile. If any other MC had a weapon listed once in their profile, it could only fire it once per turn, not like they could fire Transdimensional Thunderbolt twice in the last edition.
He's not taking it loosely though. It says they can use it in place of a rnaged attack and MC's get 2 standard. Unless it specifically says they can't I'd say they have more fuel in the tank to argue for it then against it.
KurtAngle2 wrote:C'Tan can't shoot multiple powers since each power translates into the same ranged weapon with different profiles, and albeit you can shoot with 2 different ranged weapons at the same target (given the MC status), you can't use the same weapon TWICE
This is what I'm trying to say.
C'Tan have one gun named "Powers of the C'Tan" I know it's not really a "gun", but it is a shooting power, so it's the same. When you shoot it, it has a random profile. You can't shoot the same "gun" twice in the same turn.
I don't know how you would interpret that any differently.
Necrons look awesome, I am glad they will play differently.
I think my biggest gripe is that much of the odd abilities and gear are gone. They feel much more generic than what got me into Necrons with the 3rd edition codex, which makes me feel like I'm less likely to enjoy playing them.
Hey I feel your pain man. I am just used to it by now since they gutted all my special gear from space wolves and dark eldar. Heck I can only take a venom blade on two unit leaders out of the book now
No wolf tooth necklaces or talismans....
It stinks at first but it really does clean up the game.
KurtAngle2 wrote: C'Tan can't shoot multiple powers since each power translates into the same ranged weapon with different profiles, and albeit you can shoot with 2 different ranged weapons at the same target (given the MC status), you can't use the same weapon TWICE
The language suggests that they are six separate weapons, though - just organized under a single heading. In fact they even have six different weapon profiles.
Its not crystal clear, but I would think they fire two.
Sasori wrote: The one unit I expected to get Nerfed, Wraiths, got a huge buff...
So far, things are looking REALLY good.
They're absurdly good. One really has to wonder what on earth they were thinking writing the rules for them, other than maybe "sell lots of Wraiths". I suspect wraith spam may be the new autopilot-to-win Necron build for the next few years here.
Regarding the C'tan, I'm still holding out hope for the duel-profiles before I declare total doom n' gloom. It's possible that GW integrated the alternate-attack after accounting for the fact that there's a wide variety targets out there that require specific kinds of attacks to deal with.
But, we'll see.
BlaxicanX wrote: It's pretty scary either way tbh, as the dude earlier pointed out. If the powers are completely random then the model isn't very good- if the powers can be manually selected somehow, I.E. through wargear, than it's godly and pretty cray for ~250 points. A re-roll would probably be the best middle-ground. Missed opportunity with the god-shackled there, imo.
Ghaz wrote: If its appropriately costed I wouldn't have a problem with it.
A dreadnought being costed so that it matches its fluff would be nearing super-heavy/titan costs. Why in God's name would you want that?
So what's your problem with random powers if they're supported by the fluff?
My problem is with poor game mechanics. I don't care if a poor game mechanic is fluffy or not, it's still a poor game mechanic. And yes, I'm aware that the powers could be revealed to be Please don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n awesome- doesn't really change my point.
How many times do you intend on being wrong in a single day? Are you trying to break a record?
Sasori wrote: The one unit I expected to get Nerfed, Wraiths, got a huge buff...
So far, things are looking REALLY good.
They're absurdly good. One really has to wonder what on earth they were thinking writing the rules for them, other than maybe "sell lots of Wraiths". I suspect wraith spam may be the new autopilot-to-win Necron build for the next few years here.
Or at the least, we'll just have what we have now. Wraith-wing has always been one of the most powerful builds. Jy2's croissant-spam/wraithwing hybrid in particular has taken him really far.
A damn shame about not being able to put Lynchguard in a ghost-ark, though. I don't see them getting much competitive use if they have to foot-slog. They're not even a decent counter-charge unit since wraiths are so much better.
It uses plural language when describing the powers. MC's can fire two weapons a turn. Granted, it doesn't say explicitly that it can fire two a turn - but it's not unreasonable to think it can.
models armed with powers of the ctan as a range weapon in their shooting phase [..] each time a model uses powers of the ctan choose a model as normal
That's... a very loose interpretation imo. Using plural might just be talking about separate turns. And it's only listed once in their profile. If any other MC had a weapon listed once in their profile, it could only fire it once per turn, not like they could fire Transdimensional Thunderbolt twice in the last edition.
He's not taking it loosely though. It says they can use it in place of a rnaged attack and MC's get 2 standard. Unless it specifically says they can't I'd say they have more fuel in the tank to argue for it then against it.
KurtAngle2 wrote:C'Tan can't shoot multiple powers since each power translates into the same ranged weapon with different profiles, and albeit you can shoot with 2 different ranged weapons at the same target (given the MC status), you can't use the same weapon TWICE
This is what I'm trying to say.
C'Tan have one gun named "Powers of the C'Tan" I know it's not really a "gun", but it is a shooting power, so it's the same. When you shoot it, it has a random profile. You can't shoot the same "gun" twice in the same turn.
I don't know how you would interpret that any differently.
KurtAngle2 wrote: C'Tan can't shoot multiple powers since each power translates into the same ranged weapon with different profiles, and albeit you can shoot with 2 different ranged weapons at the same target (given the MC status), you can't use the same weapon TWICE
The language suggests that they are six separate weapons, though - just organized under a single heading. In fact they even have six different weapon profiles.
Its not crystal clear, but I would think they fire two.
Yea I am leaning toward them getting two a turn.
I forsee MANY C'tan and wraiths springing up in lists.
KurtAngle2 wrote: C'Tan can't shoot multiple powers since each power translates into the same ranged weapon with different profiles, and albeit you can shoot with 2 different ranged weapons at the same target (given the MC status), you can't use the same weapon TWICE
The language suggests that they are six separate weapons, though - just organized under a single heading. In fact they even have six different weapon profiles.
Its not crystal clear, but I would think they fire two.
Yea I am leaning toward them getting two a turn.
I forsee MANY C'tan and wraiths springing up in lists.
So IF (and I still don't entirely agree with it) they get 2 per turn, what happens if you roll the same Power twice? If you're counting each power as its own weapon, it can't be fired twice. Would you reroll it? Or would it just fail? Or would you fire it twice anyway?
Necrons look awesome, I am glad they will play differently.
I think my biggest gripe is that much of the odd abilities and gear are gone. They feel much more generic than what got me into Necrons with the 3rd edition codex, which makes me feel like I'm less likely to enjoy playing them.
Hey I feel your pain man. I am just used to it by now since they gutted all my special gear from space wolves and dark eldar. Heck I can only take a venom blade on two unit leaders out of the book now
No wolf tooth necklaces or talismans....
It stinks at first but it really does clean up the game.
Yeah. Some of the changes to make the stuff more streamlined, like the new RP, make sense game wise. The removal of some of the abilities and gear just takes away from the "Robot Zombie Technology Masters" That I loved.
And I had these really awesome RP counters too :
We'll see the fluff when the codex hits the Bay, and whether I stay in the game or not.
It uses plural language when describing the powers. MC's can fire two weapons a turn. Granted, it doesn't say explicitly that it can fire two a turn - but it's not unreasonable to think it can.
models armed with powers of the ctan as a range weapon in their shooting phase [..] each time a model uses powers of the ctan choose a model as normal
That's... a very loose interpretation imo. Using plural might just be talking about separate turns. And it's only listed once in their profile. If any other MC had a weapon listed once in their profile, it could only fire it once per turn, not like they could fire Transdimensional Thunderbolt twice in the last edition.
I have to agree, if it lists just "Powers of the C'Tan" on the profile, then that is one shooting attack.
Requizen wrote: So IF (and I still don't entirely agree with it) they get 2 per turn, what happens if you roll the same Power twice? If you're counting each power as its own weapon, it can't be fired twice. Would you reroll it? Or would it just fail? Or would you fire it twice anyway?
It uses plural language when describing the powers. MC's can fire two weapons a turn. Granted, it doesn't say explicitly that it can fire two a turn - but it's not unreasonable to think it can.
models armed with powers of the ctan as a range weapon in their shooting phase [..] each time a model uses powers of the ctan choose a model as normal
That's... a very loose interpretation imo. Using plural might just be talking about separate turns. And it's only listed once in their profile. If any other MC had a weapon listed once in their profile, it could only fire it once per turn, not like they could fire Transdimensional Thunderbolt twice in the last edition.
He's not taking it loosely though. It says they can use it in place of a rnaged attack and MC's get 2 standard. Unless it specifically says they can't I'd say they have more fuel in the tank to argue for it then against it.
actually it says "it can use them as A ranged weapon".
And guess what? C'tans have only a single "Powers of the C'tan" in the profile, and that counters as a "special" ranged weapon.
Necrons look awesome, I am glad they will play differently.
I think my biggest gripe is that much of the odd abilities and gear are gone. They feel much more generic than what got me into Necrons with the 3rd edition codex, which makes me feel like I'm less likely to enjoy playing them.
Hey I feel your pain man. I am just used to it by now since they gutted all my special gear from space wolves and dark eldar. Heck I can only take a venom blade on two unit leaders out of the book now
No wolf tooth necklaces or talismans....
It stinks at first but it really does clean up the game.
Yeah. Some of the changes to make the stuff more streamlined, like the new RP, make sense game wise. The removal of some of the abilities and gear just takes away from the "Robot Zombie Technology Masters" That I loved.
And I had these really awesome RP counters too :
We'll see the fluff when the codex hits the Bay, and whether I stay in the game or not.
C'Tan have one gun named "Powers of the C'Tan" I know it's not really a "gun", but it is a shooting power, so it's the same. When you shoot it, it has a random profile. You can't shoot the same "gun" twice in the same turn.
I don't know how you would interpret that any differently.
Could be a boner killer for sure.
The way I read it, it also seems like a single weapon. It having random effects doesn't make it 6 different weapons anymore than the snazz-gun's random effects make it count as different weapons.
@ BlaxicanX you can apologize while beating your wife too, but it doesn't forgive. It's like when someone say "no offense" then proceeds to offend. Complaining without the facts while covering your ass is still complaining without the facts.
KurtAngle2 wrote: C'Tan can't shoot multiple powers since each power translates into the same ranged weapon with different profiles, and albeit you can shoot with 2 different ranged weapons at the same target (given the MC status), you can't use the same weapon TWICE
The language suggests that they are six separate weapons, though - just organized under a single heading. In fact they even have six different weapon profiles.
Its not crystal clear, but I would think they fire two.
I guess that means the Rod is two weapons as it clearly has two profiles.
This is Twin-Linked Devourers are two guns because it's plural all over again.
Red Corsair wrote: @ BlaxicanX you can apologize while beating your wife too, but it doesn't forgive. It's like when someone say "no offense" then proceeds to offend. Complaining without the facts while covering your ass is still complaining without the facts.
Are you implying that you're going to beat my wife? And not even apologize for it!?
And maybe so, but I don't need the facts to point out that random is a gak mechanic and being able to roll only once is a gak mechanic. The realization that you might be able to roll twice doesn't make my complaint any less valid.
And for the record, it's still totally up in the air whether or not they can use the ability twice (seems to be a YMDC situation)- but that hasn't stopped you from jumping for joy about it. At best, you don't think that's a bit hypocritical?
Malika2 wrote: So erm, any actual new models besides the Overlord and those tokens?
Nope. Otherwise it's just some reboxing.
Which is fine, the army didn't need a lot of additional models (though the Finecast ones could have used an update to plastic) and it's mostly an update to streamline the army into 7th which is fine by me. The game can't get better without updates that help fix it and with how the book is looking it feels more balanced than it used to.
KurtAngle2 wrote: C'Tan can't shoot multiple powers since each power translates into the same ranged weapon with different profiles, and albeit you can shoot with 2 different ranged weapons at the same target (given the MC status), you can't use the same weapon TWICE
The language suggests that they are six separate weapons, though - just organized under a single heading. In fact they even have six different weapon profiles.
Its not crystal clear, but I would think they fire two.
I guess that means the Rod is two weapons as it clearly has two profiles.
It has one split profile. That is different than six separately named weapon profiles.
Malika2 wrote: So erm, any actual new models besides the Overlord and those tokens?
Not on release day.
We'll see with this week's White Dwarf. If there are new models, they'll be next week and will be listed in the "new products" section at the end. There was an old rumor about Plastic Crypteks/Lords, but that's unlikely as the ones in the book are the same. There was also a bit about Destroyers getting a new box that included DLords and Heavy Destroyer options, but I don't think that's happening yet.
Or at the least, we'll just have what we have now. Wraith-wing has always been one of the most powerful builds. Jy2's croissant-spam/wraithwing hybrid in particular has taken him really far.
I've seen and played against that before and, at least under the current codex, it's very difficult to beat, largely impossible for many "single source/traditional CAD" builds. The Wraiths are going to be even more capable now, though with the Scythes going up in points it may not have as much support firepower, though it'll need it less too.
Red Corsair wrote: @ BlaxicanX you can apologize while beating your wife too, but it doesn't forgive. It's like when someone say "no offense" then proceeds to offend. Complaining without the facts while covering your ass is still complaining without the facts.
Are you implying that you're going to beat my wife?
And maybe so, but I don't need the facts to point out that random is a gak mechanic and being able to roll only once is a gak mechanic. The realization that you might be able to roll twice doesn't make my complaint any less valid.
Mate, how about we both just drop it. If I pissed on your cheerios I really didn't intend to and apologize. I'd rather have fun with the new info wouldn't you?
Vhalyar wrote: Seems like Mephrit Dynasty is the big winner for anyone wanting to run a C'tan. God Shackle at a mere 10 points is excellent and makes them immune to S4.
Agreed. I honestly think I like their artefacts list more too. I mean that Res Orb only giving a +1 when activated is pretty lame.
Pulled from the same reliable source and not sure if it has already been posted:
Canoptek Wraiths - 120 points (unit of 3)
WS4 BS4 S6 T5 W2 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+
Fearless, Rending, Very Bulky
Wraith Form: Canptek Wraiths have 3+ Invuln. Save
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can move over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths
and the only way to take wraiths now is with a tax:
Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
Yeah, after people got over the "Reanimation and Orb change is killing my immersion" complaints, everyone's come to realize that this is mostly a complete buff for Necrons. Changes, sure, we work differently and old armies need to change what they put on the table, but better overall imo.
Requizen wrote: Yeah, after people got over the "Reanimation and Orb change is killing my immersion" complaints, everyone's come to realize that this is mostly a complete buff for Necrons. Changes, sure, we work differently and old armies need to change what they put on the table, but better overall imo.
Requizen wrote: Yeah, after people got over the "Reanimation and Orb change is killing my immersion" complaints, everyone's come to realize that this is mostly a complete buff for Necrons.
And who cares about flavour, so long as your army is the strongest?
Malika2 wrote: So erm, any actual new models besides the Overlord and those tokens?
Not on release day.
We'll see with this week's White Dwarf. If there are new models, they'll be next week and will be listed in the "new products" section at the end. There was an old rumor about Plastic Crypteks/Lords, but that's unlikely as the ones in the book are the same. There was also a bit about Destroyers getting a new box that included DLords and Heavy Destroyer options, but I don't think that's happening yet.
The next White Dwarf releases can be seen in the Harlequin thread. No new Necrons.
Requizen wrote: Yeah, after people got over the "Reanimation and Orb change is killing my immersion" complaints, everyone's come to realize that this is mostly a complete buff for Necrons.
And who cares about flavour, so long as your army is the strongest?
So changing the timing on RP while making just about every crap unit playable means less flavor to you? I don't get it. It always required your imagination to apply fluff to in game mechanics, I know the timing changed but it isn't that hard to picture still.
Requizen wrote: Yeah, after people got over the "Reanimation and Orb change is killing my immersion" complaints, everyone's come to realize that this is mostly a complete buff for Necrons.
And who cares about flavour, so long as your army is the strongest?
New flavor: they don't even have to fall down for the repairs to start with them mending as they march towards you. I don't know, that seems more badass to me.
Requizen wrote: Yeah, after people got over the "Reanimation and Orb change is killing my immersion" complaints, everyone's come to realize that this is mostly a complete buff for Necrons. Changes, sure, we work differently and old armies need to change what they put on the table, but better overall imo.
In my humble opinion, this codex is the ****
Yeah, despite removing a number of options and some dumb rule decisions (Ghost Ark), it seems the codex will buff enough.
I'll miss my various little "Dirty Necron Tricks" as my group calls them (Leman Russ Parking lot? Meet Deepstriking Stormteks), and I'll dread CC even more now.
Vhalyar wrote: Seems like Mephrit Dynasty is the big winner for anyone wanting to run a C'tan. God Shackle at a mere 10 points is excellent and makes them immune to S4.
Agreed. I honestly think I like their artefacts list more too. I mean that Res Orb only giving a +1 when activated is pretty lame.
Definitely yeah. God Shackle and Solar Thermasite are great, and they can use the Necron warlord table which would have been Mephrit's weakness.
Wraiths can take Transdimensional Beamers still (10 points per model)
TransBeamers are now:
12" || S4 || AP2 || Heavy 1, Exile Ray
Exile Ray: To Wound of 6 automatically Wounds no matter Toughness, and has Instant Death. Penetration roll of 6 is an automatic Penetration no matter the target's AV.
Daaang, if only we could get Relentless on them somehow.
Requizen wrote: Yeah, after people got over the "Reanimation and Orb change is killing my immersion" complaints, everyone's come to realize that this is mostly a complete buff for Necrons.
And who cares about flavour, so long as your army is the strongest?
So changing the timing on RP while making just about every crap unit playable means less flavor to you? I don't get it. It always required your imagination to apply fluff to in game mechanics, I know the timing changed but it isn't that hard to picture still.
The auto-repair mechanics are just that fast and powerful now lol
Requizen wrote: Yeah, after people got over the "Reanimation and Orb change is killing my immersion" complaints, everyone's come to realize that this is mostly a complete buff for Necrons. Changes, sure, we work differently and old armies need to change what they put on the table, but better overall imo.
In my humble opinion, this codex is the ****
Yeah, despite removing a number of options and some dumb rule decisions (Ghost Ark), it seems the codex will buff enough.
I'll miss my various little "Dirty Necron Tricks" as my group calls them (Leman Russ Parking lot? Meet Deepstriking Stormteks), and I'll dread CC even more now.
but now you an just overrun them with sheer brute durability and force (and that flavourfull Void Reaper - I start to love it's story already!!!)
So changing the timing on RP while making just about every crap unit playable means less flavor to you? I don't get it. It always required your imagination to apply fluff to in game mechanics, I know the timing changed but it isn't that hard to picture still.
When did I say that making crap units playable removed flavour?
Also, it's not just changing timing on RP, it's making it into something completely different. No matter what you say, it's now just FNP+1. It was their defining feature, and now it barely even qualifies as a unique rule any more. Yes, I do think that removed flavour.
Vhalyar wrote: Seems like Mephrit Dynasty is the big winner for anyone wanting to run a C'tan. God Shackle at a mere 10 points is excellent and makes them immune to S4.
Agreed. I honestly think I like their artefacts list more too. I mean that Res Orb only giving a +1 when activated is pretty lame.
Definitely yeah. God Shackle and Solar Thermasite are great, and they can use the Necron warlord table which would have been Mephrit's weakness.
You can't mix and match like that. If you're going Mephrit for God Shackle and Thermasite, you have Mephirt Warlord Traits or BRB traits. No Codex:Necrons Traits. At least, that's how it works for things like Space Wolves and other unique FOCs, right?
Requizen wrote: Yeah, after people got over the "Reanimation and Orb change is killing my immersion" complaints, everyone's come to realize that this is mostly a complete buff for Necrons.
And who cares about flavour, so long as your army is the strongest?
Actually, IIRC when it appears in fluff the resorb is usually use activated rather than an always on passive boost, so it's actually fairly fluffy.
Wraiths can take Transdimensional Beamers still (10 points per model)
TransBeamers are now:
12" || S4 || AP2 || Heavy 1, Exile Ray
Exile Ray: To Wound of 6 automatically Wounds no matter Toughness, and has Instant Death. Penetration roll of 6 is an automatic Penetration no matter the target's AV.
Daaang, if only we could get Relentless on them somehow.
Not sure why people are so crazy on the wraiths... I am not sure but can you take that formation more then once? If not then that is a max of 6 wraiths in an army list.
What toning down are you talking about? Some of our cheese (Night Scythe spam, Stormtek spam) got nerfed/removed, but the lion's share of the actual units outside of that got buffed. Previously unusable units (Lychguard, Praetorians, Flayed Ones, Destroyers, Doomsday Ark) got stronger, Wraiths got even better, and Reanimation Protocols is better now than it was before.
Requizen wrote: Yeah, after people got over the "Reanimation and Orb change is killing my immersion" complaints, everyone's come to realize that this is mostly a complete buff for Necrons. Changes, sure, we work differently and old armies need to change what they put on the table, but better overall imo.
In my humble opinion, this codex is the ****
Yeah, despite removing a number of options and some dumb rule decisions (Ghost Ark), it seems the codex will buff enough.
I'll miss my various little "Dirty Necron Tricks" as my group calls them (Leman Russ Parking lot? Meet Deepstriking Stormteks), and I'll dread CC even more now.
but now you an just overrun them with sheer brute durability and force
Not really my play style unfortunately. Even in RPG's and MTG I'm never really a brute force player. Always the Rouge/Mage types.
So changing the timing on RP while making just about every crap unit playable means less flavor to you? I don't get it. It always required your imagination to apply fluff to in game mechanics, I know the timing changed but it isn't that hard to picture still.
When did I say that making crap units playable removed flavour?
Also, it's not just changing timing on RP, it's making it into something completely different. No matter what you say, it's now just FNP+1. It was their defining feature, and now it barely even qualifies as a unique rule any more. Yes, I do think that removed flavour.
Yeah the flavor is gone. But from a rules standpoint, especially since we know that we can't trust GW to write competent rules or make timely FAQ's, the change clears up so much.
Tomb King wrote: Not sure why people are so crazy on the wraiths... I am not sure but can you take that formation more then once? If not then that is a max of 6 wraiths in an army list.
The decurion is NOT the only way to make a necron army. There's a long-ish quote from the codex somewhere in this thread that explains how it work. Basically, CAD can be used, as can all the small formations on their own.
Tomb King wrote: Not sure why people are so crazy on the wraiths... I am not sure but can you take that formation more then once? If not then that is a max of 6 wraiths in an army list.
If you're talking about the Decurion, you can take any of the sub-formations as many times as you want. As long as they don't exceed 10 total sub-formations per Reclamation Legion. So you can have 1 Reclamation Legion, 3 Canoptek Harvests, and 2 Star Gods if you want.
Destroyer Cult=
1 Destroyer Lord
3 units of destroyers
0-1 units of heavy destroyers
Special Rules: Move through cover
If this formation is your primary detachment, can re-roll for Warlord Traits
Units in this formation re-roll failed to wound and armour penetration rolls
What does that mean, can I use this formation as a standalone army and build around it? Even though I only get the bonusses if I take the decurion detachement?
Vhalyar wrote: Seems like Mephrit Dynasty is the big winner for anyone wanting to run a C'tan. God Shackle at a mere 10 points is excellent and makes them immune to S4.
Agreed. I honestly think I like their artefacts list more too. I mean that Res Orb only giving a +1 when activated is pretty lame.
Definitely yeah. God Shackle and Solar Thermasite are great, and they can use the Necron warlord table which would have been Mephrit's weakness.
You can't mix and match like that. If you're going Mephrit for God Shackle and Thermasite, you have Mephirt Warlord Traits or BRB traits. No Codex:Necrons Traits. At least, that's how it works for things like Space Wolves and other unique FOCs, right?
From Exterminatus (with added emphasis by me):
When generating its Warlord Traits, a Warlord chosen from one of the Formations or the Detachment in this section MAY choose to roll on the table here instead of those found in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules or Codex: Necrons.
So the Crons can mix and match.
Though I'm not sure if the new table is better since both tables can give you EW, and the Leviathan one has IWND on it.
Vhalyar wrote: Seems like Mephrit Dynasty is the big winner for anyone wanting to run a C'tan. God Shackle at a mere 10 points is excellent and makes them immune to S4.
Agreed. I honestly think I like their artefacts list more too. I mean that Res Orb only giving a +1 when activated is pretty lame.
Definitely yeah. God Shackle and Solar Thermasite are great, and they can use the Necron warlord table which would have been Mephrit's weakness.
You can't mix and match like that. If you're going Mephrit for God Shackle and Thermasite, you have Mephirt Warlord Traits or BRB traits. No Codex:Necrons Traits. At least, that's how it works for things like Space Wolves and other unique FOCs, right?
Sure I can, because the Mephrit warlord section specifically stipulates that a Mephrit force can select between the codex charts, its own chart, or the Codex: Necron chart
Requizen wrote: Yeah, after people got over the "Reanimation and Orb change is killing my immersion" complaints, everyone's come to realize that this is mostly a complete buff for Necrons.
And who cares about flavour, so long as your army is the strongest?
When was the last time GW actually showed respect to an army's fluff when writing rules? Necrons (3rd) is the last I can remember.
Vhalyar wrote: Seems like Mephrit Dynasty is the big winner for anyone wanting to run a C'tan. God Shackle at a mere 10 points is excellent and makes them immune to S4.
Agreed. I honestly think I like their artefacts list more too. I mean that Res Orb only giving a +1 when activated is pretty lame.
Definitely yeah. God Shackle and Solar Thermasite are great, and they can use the Necron warlord table which would have been Mephrit's weakness.
You can't mix and match like that. If you're going Mephrit for God Shackle and Thermasite, you have Mephirt Warlord Traits or BRB traits. No Codex:Necrons Traits. At least, that's how it works for things like Space Wolves and other unique FOCs, right?
From Exterminatus (with added emphasis by me):
When generating its Warlord Traits, a Warlord chosen from one of the Formations or the Detachment in this section MAY choose to roll on the table here instead of those found in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules or Codex: Necrons.
So the Crons can mix and match.
Though I'm not sure if the new table is better since both tables can give you EW, and the Leviathan one has IWND on it.
Oh snap, that's quite good.
I don't think you can use Mephrit Artifacts and Warlord Traits if you're running Decurion though, which is kinda sad.
Henker-Kind wrote:So:
Destroyer Cult=
1 Destroyer Lord
3 units of destroyers
0-1 units of heavy destroyers
Special Rules: Move through cover
If this formation is your primary detachment, can re-roll for Warlord Traits
Units in this formation re-roll failed to wound and armour penetration rolls
What does that mean, can I use this formation as a standalone army and build around it? Even though I only get the bonusses if I take the decurion detachement?
It's starting to sound that way. It looks like Star-God, Flayed Ones, and Deathmarks aren't formations, but all of the other ones in the Decurion sub-formations can be taken by themselves.
Which is quite nice. If you want to do a true Destroyer army, you can just take that formation a handful of times. 100% Destroyers, no other Necron models on the table. Nifty
Tomb King wrote: Pulled from the same reliable source and not sure if it has already been posted:
Canoptek Wraiths - 120 points (unit of 3)
WS4 BS4 S6 T5 W2 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+
Fearless, Rending, Very Bulky
Wraith Form: Canptek Wraiths have 3+ Invuln. Save
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can move over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths
and the only way to take wraiths now is with a tax:
Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
NO NO NO NO NO.... THAT IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO TAKE THEM!!!
We still have the normal CAD. We still can be an allied detachment. We can still use the Mephret Detachment!
Tomb King wrote: Not sure why people are so crazy on the wraiths... I am not sure but can you take that formation more then once? If not then that is a max of 6 wraiths in an army list.
Well if you're building the Necron Decurion you can take 10, otherwise you can take as many as you have points and models for.
Destroyer Cult=
1 Destroyer Lord
3 units of destroyers
0-1 units of heavy destroyers
Special Rules: Move through cover
If this formation is your primary detachment, can re-roll for Warlord Traits
Units in this formation re-roll failed to wound and armour penetration rolls
What does that mean, can I use this formation as a standalone army and build around it? Even though I only get the bonusses if I take the decurion detachement?
Your primary detachment is the one your Warlord is in, even if it's not a CAD.
Tomb King wrote: Pulled from the same reliable source and not sure if it has already been posted:
Canoptek Wraiths - 120 points (unit of 3)
WS4 BS4 S6 T5 W2 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+
Fearless, Rending, Very Bulky
Wraith Form: Canptek Wraiths have 3+ Invuln. Save
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can move over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths
and the only way to take wraiths now is with a tax:
Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
NO NO NO NO NO.... THAT IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO TAKE THEM!!!
We still have the normal CAD. We still can be an allied detachment. We can still use the Mephret Detachment!
Got a reference for this one? The guy with the book stated there is no CAD or force org really in the book.
Or at the least, we'll just have what we have now. Wraith-wing has always been one of the most powerful builds. Jy2's croissant-spam/wraithwing hybrid in particular has taken him really far.
I've seen and played against that before and, at least under the current codex, it's very difficult to beat, largely impossible for many "single source/traditional CAD" builds. The Wraiths are going to be even more capable now, though with the Scythes going up in points it may not have as much support firepower, though it'll need it less too.
I too have to wonder what GeeDubs was thinking with the uber-Wraiths. At least there will be slightly fewer points to spend on them in a normal CAD since warriors are 10 minimum (what are Immortals by the way? Still 5?). Also, Destroyer Lords won't really be able to join up with them unless you really want to slow them down, so that's something. Not much, granted but its something.
I think the huge buffs to so many units is the primary reason the ghost ark's transport capacity is what it is. To open it up to any unit, or to even allow more than 10 models (thus eliminating the ability to start off with a character in it first turn) tones it down and also tones down some of the other units. Still, it looks like Necrons are back on top in a big way. Maybe Matt Ward snuck in and made some final changes right before it shipped to the printers
In all fairness though, this looks like the army will be much more enjoyable to play against, as all of the annoying shenanigans seemed to have been removed or nerfed to oblivion. They are still going to be extremely tough, but it seems more like an "honest" toughness instead of the goofy, rules-breaking nonsense in the previous book.
Tomb King wrote: Not sure why people are so crazy on the wraiths... I am not sure but can you take that formation more then once? If not then that is a max of 6 wraiths in an army list.
Tomb King wrote: Pulled from the same reliable source and not sure if it has already been posted:
Canoptek Wraiths - 120 points (unit of 3)
WS4 BS4 S6 T5 W2 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+
Fearless, Rending, Very Bulky
Wraith Form: Canptek Wraiths have 3+ Invuln. Save
Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can move over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths
and the only way to take wraiths now is with a tax:
Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
NO NO NO NO NO.... THAT IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO TAKE THEM!!!
We still have the normal CAD. We still can be an allied detachment. We can still use the Mephret Detachment!
Got a reference for this one? The guy with the book stated there is no CAD or force org really in the book.
He quoted the entiore section, CAD is in the BRB and they can still use it.
Tomb King wrote: Got a reference for this one? The guy with the book stated there is no CAD or force org really in the book.
If you are using the Unbound method, simply use the datasheets later in this section that correspond to the Necron models in your collection. If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied detachments. Note that you can also include any of the formations presented in this section as part of a battle-forged army.
Furthermore, the Necron Decurion Deachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army. Unlike the detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles. However, it still has compulsory and optional elements, as well as restrictions and command benefits, just like any other detachment.
Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment.
tl;dr: You can go Unbound, use a detachment like a Combined Arms detachment (or the Exterminatus one), use them as allies, or take them in a Decurion Detachment which is a detachment made of modular formations.
Red Corsair wrote: I see no restriction for ghost arks occupants from the leaked page. So I would guess you CAN put lychguard into them. The only parts missing from the transports were the capacities but I have never seen such a restriction placed there, still, COULD be a first. Still hope for that combo.
Spoiler:
GHOST ARK FAST ATTACK 105 pts
BS 4 F 11 S 11 R 11 HP 4 Vehicle (Skimmer, Open-topped, Transport)
WARGEAR
Two Gauss Flayer Arrays (pg113)
Quantum Shielding (pg115)
TRANSPORT
Transport Capacity: 10 models. It can only carry Necron Warriors and Necron Characters with the infantry unit type.
Repair Barge: At the start of each friendly Movement phase this model can repair fallen Necron Warrios. To do so, nominate a firendly unit of Necron Warriors that is either within 6” of this model or embarked on it, and roll a D3. Add a number of Necron Warriors tot he unit equal to the result – this cannot take the unit beyond it starting size nor, if it is currently embarked in the Ghost ark, beyond the vehicle's transport capacity (any excess are destroyred). These Necron Warriors must be placed within 6” of the Ghost Ark, or if the unit is currently embarked in the Ghost Ark, within it. If the model cannot be placed for any reason, it is destroyed. Necron Warriors repaired iin this manner can move and act normally this turn.
NO NO NO NO NO.... THAT IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO TAKE THEM!!!
We still have the normal CAD. We still can be an allied detachment. We can still use the Mephret Detachment!
Got a reference for this one? The guy with the book stated there is no CAD or force org really in the book.
Non of the 7th edition codicies have the CAD or Allied detachments in them. They are only found in the BRB, and any faction (with just a few exceptions that don't have all of the battlefield roles) can use them.
Everything is in detachments (there was a nice picture from the book a few pages ago that repeats this).
CAD is a detachment.
Allied is a detachment.
Decurion is a detachment.
Mephrit is a detachment.
Any of them can contain your warlord... which would then become the primary detachment.
Red Corsair wrote: I see no restriction for ghost arks occupants from the leaked page. So I would guess you CAN put lychguard into them. The only parts missing from the transports were the capacities but I have never seen such a restriction placed there, still, COULD be a first. Still hope for that combo.
Spoiler:
GHOST ARK FAST ATTACK 105 pts
BS 4 F 11 S 11 R 11 HP 4 Vehicle (Skimmer, Open-topped, Transport)
WARGEAR
Two Gauss Flayer Arrays (pg113)
Quantum Shielding (pg115)
TRANSPORT
Transport Capacity: 10 models. It can only carry Necron Warriors and Necron Characters with the infantry unit type.
Repair Barge: At the start of each friendly Movement phase this model can repair fallen Necron Warrios. To do so, nominate a firendly unit of Necron Warriors that is either within 6” of this model or embarked on it, and roll a D3. Add a number of Necron Warriors tot he unit equal to the result – this cannot take the unit beyond it starting size nor, if it is currently embarked in the Ghost ark, beyond the vehicle's transport capacity (any excess are destroyred). These Necron Warriors must be placed within 6” of the Ghost Ark, or if the unit is currently embarked in the Ghost Ark, within it. If the model cannot be placed for any reason, it is destroyed. Necron Warriors repaired iin this manner can move and act normally this turn.
Gee, with the way these rules so specifically spell things out, one could get the impression that GW is learning how to write rules again. No more "Well, the Cryptek is still alive so I can keep adding Warriors back". Of course, making Crypteks (and Lords) Independent Characters solves that conundrum too.
Tomb King wrote: Not sure why people are so crazy on the wraiths... I am not sure but can you take that formation more then once? If not then that is a max of 6 wraiths in an army list.
You can still take a normal CAD.
Even with 6, that's a *lot* of resiliency, speed, and kill output for what you're paying for them.
Tomb King wrote: Not sure why people are so crazy on the wraiths... I am not sure but can you take that formation more then once? If not then that is a max of 6 wraiths in an army list.
You can still take a normal CAD.
Even with 6, that's a *lot* of resiliency, speed, and kill output for what you're paying for them.
I still hope something is overlooked on them: was there already a scan :/ that would be too much goddamn!
Henker-Kind wrote: I am so absolutely going to utilize the destroyer cult as my primary detachement and build up from that
- this beautiful dehumanization upon the wings of destruction and nihilistic bliss; beautiful as burdened stars!
But I have some more questions: how do I build up on that exactly: tournaments mostly only allow one detachment is that right??
It depends on the tournament. For example, a lot of the recent ones have been:
0-1 CAD 0-1 Codex-specific Detachment
0-1 Allied Detachment
As many Formations as you want, but each Formation can only be taken once
Which isn't too restrictive. But it depends on the organizers.
If you're going to play in tournaments, you're going to have to be flexible with which models you collect. You just never know what they'll allow. You could build an entire army based on some formation or other and have it be unusable. In my area, so far, only a single CAD has been allowed.
Tomb King wrote: Not sure why people are so crazy on the wraiths... I am not sure but can you take that formation more then once? If not then that is a max of 6 wraiths in an army list.
You can still take a normal CAD.
Even with 6, that's a *lot* of resiliency, speed, and kill output for what you're paying for them.
I still hope something is overlooked on them: was there already a scan :/ that would be too much goddamn!
changemod wrote: Yeah, the Wraith formation is Relentless and Transdimensional Beamers now auto wound with Instant Death AP2 on a 6 and auto penetrate on a 6 too.
So... As long as you don't mind running a Scarab Farm with them and spending 50 points per model, there's your Monstrous Creature hunters.
changemod wrote: Yeah, the Wraith formation is Relentless and Transdimensional Beamers now auto wound with Instant Death AP2 on a 6 and auto penetrate on a 6 too.
So... As long as you don't mind running a Scarab Farm with them and spending 50 points per model, there's your Monstrous Creature hunters.
changemod wrote: Yeah, the Wraith formation is Relentless and Transdimensional Beamers now auto wound with Instant Death AP2 on a 6 and auto penetrate on a 6 too.
So... As long as you don't mind running a Scarab Farm with them and spending 50 points per model, there's your Monstrous Creature hunters.
How do you give the Wraiths Relentless?
The formation with them, like I said.
Oh geez, I'm blind. I thought it just gave them Move Through Cover.
Ok yeah. That's really great. They're also BS4, so they have no problem hitting with the things. 6 Wraiths means you're not statistically guaranteed a 6 to Wound, but that's nowhere near a bad chance. AP2 Auto instant death on 6s with T5/W2/3++... Wraiths are still king, just in new ways now.
Meaningful nerfs:
-Warriors now min unit size 10 (which I quite like as it's fluffier, and stops MSU which new RP are ripe to abuse, but it's definitely a nerf)
-Night Scythes 30 pts more (Eh, not awful. This plus warrior nerf pretty much eliminates any potential spamming of these, even min Immortals+scythe is 215 now)
-Tesla no longer works with snapshots (Hmm, sucks but in line with other armies, so I can't complain really)
-Annihilation barge 30 points more (Pretty much ideal price point IMO)
-Entropic strike much worse (okay, scarabs are arguably the same, but for everything else with it, it's pointless)
-Warscythes AP2
-All Lords of War nerfed. Boooo!
-Phase shifter 4++ (Meh, also much cheaper)
-No 2+ save other than 1 relic (which is interesting admittedly, it can force a morale check at range which is sometimes meaningful, but very overcosted)
-Res orbs suck now (but crypteks do the same as the old one passively, so eh)
-MSS is useless (not dead chuffed that it's fear rather than something like -3I to an enemy or something, but whatever, a nerf was coming)
-Destroyer Lord Jet Pack (great for destroyers, but now this guy will struggle to catch up with Wraiths.
-Crypteks are sad face now.
-RP never better than 4+ (sucks, but was rarely higher anyway)
Stand out units:
-Wraiths, again. My lord, they made these guys better, again?! What can even be said - T4 was great, T5 is unbelievable, and for 5 points more it's a steal. They lose hammer of wrath (which you didn't always get anyway) and deep strike. In return, they ignore units and got tougher. Wow.
-Dispersion shields are standard wargear. And you can take them with Warscythes? Basically, the dispersion shield is the new phase shifter, and I am 100% okay with that. It's also 10 points, so cheaper for some reason I cannot fathom.
-Veil of darkness is back baby! One use is meh, but interestingly this grants deep strike. I cannot be the only one who wants to deep strike a CCB even though it's stupid
-Tomb blades - 18 points just as I said. More importantly, 20 point models with ignores cover S5 AP4 rapid fire guns on jet bikes. You bet I'm excited to try them
Overall, despite my excitement, I think this is slightly nerfed from where we were, with just a lot more variety. Obviously I don't know some important stuff like Triarch stalker stats and the like, but the old power builds are dust in the wind. Still, it's hard to be sad about the destroyer lord being buffed (dispersion shield+war scythe makes this guy effectively an MC). I suspect this is a mistake and you're not meant to be able to run shield+scythe but hey, enjoy it for a while. Who know's maybe it's not a mistake (it totally is though unless 10 points is wrong). Lots of stuff to faff around with, will probably end about as good as Space Marine dex, which I'm more than fine with.
changemod wrote: Yeah, the Wraith formation is Relentless and Transdimensional Beamers now auto wound with Instant Death AP2 on a 6 and auto penetrate on a 6 too.
So... As long as you don't mind running a Scarab Farm with them and spending 50 points per model, there's your Monstrous Creature hunters.
Henker-Kind wrote: I am so absolutely going to utilize the destroyer cult as my primary detachement and build up from that
- this beautiful dehumanization upon the wings of destruction and nihilistic bliss; beautiful as burdened stars!
But I have some more questions: how do I build up on that exactly: tournaments mostly only allow one detachment is that right??
Forget most tournaments... (most allow two by the way).
Choose the Destroyer Cult as your primary detachment and meet its requirements. Your Destroyer Lord would be your warlord.
Then you can choose any other detachment or detachments that you want...
Ally a CAD and take a single Cryptek for the mandatory HQ. Fill your freed up FA slots with Wraiths and Tomb Blades.
Then he wouldn't benefit from the Destroyer Cult special rule for it being his primary. He needs to use the Destroyer Lord as his warlord. I would run an allied detachment as well, however. Cryptek, some Immortals for tough objective holding, and then you still have a free elite, fast attack, and heavy support slots.
Eyjio wrote: Meaningful nerfs:
-Warriors now min unit size 10 (which I quite like as it's fluffier, and stops MSU which new RP are ripe to abuse, but it's definitely a nerf)
-Night Scythes 30 pts more (Eh, not awful. This plus warrior nerf pretty much eliminates any potential spamming of these, even min Immortals+scythe is 215 now)
-Tesla no longer works with snapshots (Hmm, sucks but in line with other armies, so I can't complain really)
-Annihilation barge 30 points more (Pretty much ideal price point IMO)
-Entropic strike much worse (okay, scarabs are arguably the same, but for everything else with it, it's pointless)
-Warscythes AP2
-All Lords of War nerfed. Boooo!
-Phase shifter 4++ (Meh, also much cheaper)
-No 2+ save other than 1 relic (which is interesting admittedly, it can force a morale check at range which is sometimes meaningful, but very overcosted)
-Res orbs suck now (but crypteks do the same as the old one passively, so eh)
-MSS is useless (not dead chuffed that it's fear rather than something like -3I to an enemy or something, but whatever, a nerf was coming)
-Destroyer Lord Jet Pack (great for destroyers, but now this guy will struggle to catch up with Wraiths.
-Crypteks are sad face now.
-RP never better than 4+ (sucks, but was rarely higher anyway)
Stand out units:
-Wraiths, again. My lord, they made these guys better, again?! What can even be said - T4 was great, T5 is unbelievable, and for 5 points more it's a steal. They lose hammer of wrath (which you didn't always get anyway) and deep strike. In return, they ignore units and got tougher. Wow.
-Dispersion shields are standard wargear. And you can take them with Warscythes? Basically, the dispersion shield is the new phase shifter, and I am 100% okay with that. It's also 10 points, so cheaper for some reason I cannot fathom.
-Veil of darkness is back baby! One use is meh, but interestingly this grants deep strike. I cannot be the only one who wants to deep strike a CCB even though it's stupid
-Tomb blades - 18 points just as I said. More importantly, 20 point models with ignores cover S5 AP4 rapid fire guns on jet bikes. You bet I'm excited to try them
Overall, despite my excitement, I think this is slightly nerfed from where we were, with just a lot more variety. Obviously I don't know some important stuff like Triarch stalker stats and the like, but the old power builds are dust in the wind. Still, it's hard to be sad about the destroyer lord being buffed (dispersion shield+war scythe makes this guy effectively an MC). I suspect this is a mistake and you're not meant to be able to run shield+scythe but hey, enjoy it for a while. Who know's maybe it's not a mistake (it totally is though unless 10 points is wrong). Lots of stuff to faff around with, will probably end about as good as Space Marine dex, which I'm more than fine with.
Current rumors nix the dispersion shield on any lords. It's not on the list of purchasable items in the wargear section.
-Dispersion shields are standard wargear. And you can take them with Warscythes? Basically, the dispersion shield is the new phase shifter, and I am 100% okay with that. It's also 10 points, so cheaper for some reason I cannot fathom.
That's a negative. They're listed in the standard wargear section, but aren't on the purchasing list for characters.
Holy crap.
That Ghost Ark Warrior-restriction is stupid, especially since they have a minimum of 10 models now and the GA can only take 10 models.
But omg omg omg, that shooting!
Salvo 5/10 with Independent Targeting at 24" range?
We have two of those and even the unit inside to gak anything up that dares to come close.
Monolith still Ordinance, stupid.
With the changes to Doomsday Ark I would have thought that they'd make it Primary 1.
They finally get DS-protection in a Formation, they just have to land within 12" of an Obelisk you just Deep Strikes without protection.
Great!
Wait.. I have to take a Spyder, Wraiths and Scarabs..
And then I can have them take RP, Shred or Fleet? Crongasmic.
Aldaris wrote: Holy crap. Flayed ones have 3A, DS, Infiltrate and two flayer claws. Meaning they can start close to the enemy and get 5A with shred on the charge.
Flayed ones are useful! WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!
On the other hand, it's £100 for a full 20 blob and they're finecast.
Might just run my warriors as them if I'm in the mood for a full out Berzerk assault army.
Is there any reason at all to make gauss flux arrays salvo 5/10? Aren't all vehicles relentless anyway? Doesn't this just increase the volume of shots outside of 12'' as compared to last edition?
Aldaris wrote: Holy crap. Flayed ones have 3A, DS, Infiltrate and two flayer claws. Meaning they can start close to the enemy and get 5A with shred on the charge.
Flayed ones are useful! WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!
On the other hand, it's £100 for a full 20 blob and they're finecast.
Might just run my warriors as them if I'm in the mood for a full out Berzerk assault army.
"Yeah those are... Gauss Axes. Yeah."
Yeah I'm just running my unpainted Warriors as Flayed Ones right now. In the future, I might convert some Warrior boxes and some spikey bits into Flayed Ones, seems more reasonable.
@changemod: I'm pretty sure you could convert 'em from warriors. And should really. The models are not only expensive and finecast, they're also pretty damn ugly. And not in a good way.
-Dispersion shields are standard wargear. And you can take them with Warscythes? Basically, the dispersion shield is the new phase shifter, and I am 100% okay with that. It's also 10 points, so cheaper for some reason I cannot fathom.
That's a negative. They're listed in the standard wargear section, but aren't on the purchasing list for characters.
Oops, well, there was a mistake, just not on GW's part then :p Still, D lords get a 4++ which they couldn't before - pretty awesome.
changemod wrote:
Aldaris wrote: Holy crap. Flayed ones have 3A, DS, Infiltrate and two flayer claws. Meaning they can start close to the enemy and get 5A with shred on the charge.
Flayed ones are useful! WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!
On the other hand, it's £100 for a full 20 blob and they're finecast.
Might just run my warriors as them if I'm in the mood for a full out Berzerk assault army.
"Yeah those are... Gauss Axes. Yeah."
You could do the time honoured tradition of every Necron player from 3e and make your own. They look better too.
Colpicklejar wrote: Is there any reason at all to make gauss flux arrays salvo 5/10? Aren't all vehicles relentless anyway? Doesn't this just increase the volume of shots outside of 12'' as compared to last edition?
I don't get it either. Assault 10 or Heavy 10 would have worked as well and been simpler. Oh well. I can certainly live with 20 shots from my Ghost Ark, no matter how they do it.
Colpicklejar wrote: Is there any reason at all to make gauss flux arrays salvo 5/10? Aren't all vehicles relentless anyway? Doesn't this just increase the volume of shots outside of 12'' as compared to last edition?
I think (think, mind you) that Salvo weapons use the first number if they are Snap Shooting. I could be mistaken on that.
Requizen wrote: [
Yeah I'm just running my unpainted Warriors as Flayed Ones right now. In the future, I might convert some Warrior boxes and some spikey bits into Flayed Ones, seems more reasonable.
Eons of Battle has a video how to convert Necron Warriors into Flayed Ones
NO NO NO NO NO.... THAT IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO TAKE THEM!!!
We still have the normal CAD. We still can be an allied detachment. We can still use the Mephret Detachment!
Got a reference for this one? The guy with the book stated there is no CAD or force org really in the book.
Non of the 7th edition codicies have the CAD or Allied detachments in them. They are only found in the BRB, and any faction (with just a few exceptions that don't have all of the battlefield roles) can use them.
Everything is in detachments (there was a nice picture from the book a few pages ago that repeats this).
CAD is a detachment.
Allied is a detachment.
Decurion is a detachment.
Mephrit is a detachment.
Any of them can contain your warlord... which would then become the primary detachment.
Allied MAY NOT carry your warlord, it is specifically prohibited
Eyjio wrote: Does it say models from the Mephirit dynasty can take items from the Technoarcana or Artifacts of the Aeons? If not, you have your answer.
That is not how it works.
The Codex would need a restriction that it can only be taken in Detachments/Formations from the Codex.
Example:
Characters with the Necrons Faction that are part of a Detachment or Formation presented in this book can select an item from the Relics of the War in Heaven list at the points cost shown.
Requizen wrote: [
Yeah I'm just running my unpainted Warriors as Flayed Ones right now. In the future, I might convert some Warrior boxes and some spikey bits into Flayed Ones, seems more reasonable.
Eons of Battle has a video how to convert Necron Warriors into Flayed Ones
There's a nice, simple one. I definitely have plenty of Bayonets and various Void Blade type weapons sitting about.
I was originally going to make actual claws out of plasticard, but I actually like this quite a bit.
Is it just me or has the Tesla destructor lost the Arc rule? So no more extra snapshot hits. Price bump. And nor more arc? Would make em kinda sad losing the arc IMO. Rest i can live with just fine
The more I think of it there must be specific items in the technoarcana wich only tomb blades or lords can take: I bet it is under their specific unit profile with points... otherwise...
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote: Is it just me or has the Tesla destructor lost the Arc rule? So no more extra snapshot hits. Price bump. And nor more arc? Would make em kinda sad losing the arc IMO. Rest i can live with just fine
It sucks when you look at it that way. So, I delude myself by thinking of it as 2 autocannons with tesla. Then I feel pretty darn good about it.
Requizen wrote: You can't mix and match relics, unless I'm missing something.
Normally, yes. I'm looking for the actual prohibition though.
Tried both the front of the book where it says relics are one per army, and on the actual relic page.
Does it say models from the Mephirit dynasty can take items from the Technoarcana or Artifacts of the Aeons? If not, you have your answer.
No... the Technoacrcana would be wargear that would be used by whatever models can take the Technoacrana. Artifacts of the Aeons would be our equivalent of relics.
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote: Is it just me or has the Tesla destructor lost the Arc rule? So no more extra snapshot hits. Price bump. And nor more arc? Would make em kinda sad losing the arc IMO. Rest i can live with just fine
Hopefully they just forgot to stick it in, people are just typing these out.
It was always just a chance on a 6 so not much of a miss.
And they now have Rending as a rule instead of CCW's with Rending, which means you keep the rending on the whipcoils.
I'm surely not the only one that expected a nerf to Wraiths.. Instead they get all of this.. It's unbelievable!
Just saw the new Triarch Stalker. That thing is delicious! I will surely play that with some Heavy Destroyers next to it, hard to miss with BS5 and PE.
vipoid wrote: With the new rules, what do you use Overlords for now?
- It's not for MSS - It's not for Res. Orbs
- It's not to unlock a Royal Court
- It's not for tanking wounds
What do you use them for?
Lychguard unit sergeant, I guess?
No way. That's the Cryptek. 3++/4+ RP. Yummy. Assuming you give them dispersion shields of course.
First, you can't give Crypteks Dispersion Shields at the moment.
Second, Lords, Destroyer Lords, and Overlords are your Close Combat HQs. They lost MSS, but they still have good statlines, can take Warscythes, and Artifacts if you want. Overlords have very solid statlines with WS/BS/T/S 5 W3 A3.
Overall I think Overlords and Lords will be taken less than other HQs in this codex, but they have their uses.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Skanktastic wrote: Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
That's an interesting question. "Moving" might imply "In the Movement Phase", but it might also imply "whenever the model moves, including running/charging". I would interpret it as all movement, but people may argue it.
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote: Is it just me or has the Tesla destructor lost the Arc rule? So no more extra snapshot hits. Price bump. And nor more arc? Would make em kinda sad losing the arc IMO. Rest i can live with just fine
Hopefully they just forgot to stick it in, people are just typing these out.
It was always just a chance on a 6 so not much of a miss.
vipoid wrote: With the new rules, what do you use Overlords for now?
- It's not for MSS - It's not for Res. Orbs
- It's not to unlock a Royal Court
- It's not for tanking wounds
What do you use them for?
Lychguard unit sergeant, I guess?
No way. That's the Cryptek. 3++/4+ RP. Yummy. Assuming you give them dispersion shields of course.
First, you can't give Crypteks Dispersion Shields at the moment.
Second, Lords, Destroyer Lords, and Overlords are your Close Combat HQs. They lost MSS, but they still have good statlines, can take Warscythes, and Artifacts if you want. Overlords have very solid statlines with WS/BS/T/S 5 W3 A3.
Overall I think Overlords and Lords will be taken less than other HQs in this codex, but they have their uses.
I wasn't saying that the cryptek would have a dispersions shield, just that Lychguard w/ dispersion shields accompanied by a cryptek are 3++/4+ RP. I could have been clearer of course.
I'm leaning toward CCB Overlord w/ Phaseshifter, Phylactery and Warscythe. If you distribute shooting hits correctly, he could be a real monster.
vipoid wrote: With the new rules, what do you use Overlords for now?
- It's not for MSS - It's not for Res. Orbs
- It's not to unlock a Royal Court
- It's not for tanking wounds
What do you use them for?
Lychguard unit sergeant, I guess?
No way. That's the Cryptek. 3++/4+ RP. Yummy. Assuming you give them dispersion shields of course.
First, you can't give Crypteks Dispersion Shields at the moment.
Second, Lords, Destroyer Lords, and Overlords are your Close Combat HQs. They lost MSS, but they still have good statlines, can take Warscythes, and Artifacts if you want. Overlords have very solid statlines with WS/BS/T/S 5 W3 A3.
Overall I think Overlords and Lords will be taken less than other HQs in this codex, but they have their uses.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Skanktastic wrote: Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
That's an interesting question. "Moving" might imply "In the Movement Phase", but it might also imply "whenever the model moves, including running/charging". I would interpret it as all movement, but people may argue it.
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote: Is it just me or has the Tesla destructor lost the Arc rule? So no more extra snapshot hits. Price bump. And nor more arc? Would make em kinda sad losing the arc IMO. Rest i can live with just fine
Hopefully they just forgot to stick it in, people are just typing these out.
It was always just a chance on a 6 so not much of a miss.
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote: Is it just me or has the Tesla destructor lost the Arc rule? So no more extra snapshot hits. Price bump. And nor more arc? Would make em kinda sad losing the arc IMO. Rest i can live with just fine
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote: Is it just me or has the Tesla destructor lost the Arc rule? So no more extra snapshot hits. Price bump. And nor more arc? Would make em kinda sad losing the arc IMO. Rest i can live with just fine
Don't forget it being heavy now
Why is that a problem? Tesla destructors are all on vehicles and there it doesn't matter if it's assault or heavy.
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote: Is it just me or has the Tesla destructor lost the Arc rule? So no more extra snapshot hits. Price bump. And nor more arc? Would make em kinda sad losing the arc IMO. Rest i can live with just fine
Don't forget it being heavy now
How does that matter aren't all vehicles relentless anyway?
That is not how it works.
The Codex would need a restriction that it can only be taken in Detachments/Formations from the Codex.
What is the exact wording that units in the Mephirit dynasty have for their weapon selection (I don't own the book)?
Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
Yes. It will be argued that it doesn't, but this is extremely similar wording to how it was before, and beasts as well, yet that also reduced initiative. Unless it explicitly states it doesn't lower initiative, like grenades, it does following precedent of previous rulings. It sucks, but at least we know it's coming this time.
vipoid wrote: With the new rules, what do you use Overlords for now?
- It's not for MSS - It's not for Res. Orbs
- It's not to unlock a Royal Court
- It's not for tanking wounds
What do you use them for?
Lychguard unit sergeant, I guess?
No way. That's the Cryptek. 3++/4+ RP. Yummy. Assuming you give them dispersion shields of course.
Again? YOU CAN'T GIVE ANYONE Dispersion Shields
And as I clearly said a few posts ago, that's not what I was saying at all. I was saying that a unit of Lychguard w/ dispersions shields, accompanied by a Cryptek would have a 3++ w/ 4+ RP. So before you go caps-lock-yelling at me. Please read what I have to say.
vipoid wrote: With the new rules, what do you use Overlords for now?
- It's not for MSS - It's not for Res. Orbs
- It's not to unlock a Royal Court
- It's not for tanking wounds
What do you use them for?
Lychguard unit sergeant, I guess?
No way. That's the Cryptek. 3++/4+ RP. Yummy. Assuming you give them dispersion shields of course.
Again? YOU CAN'T GIVE ANYONE Dispersion Shields
We have to see the actual Technoarcana purchase list with point costs and restrictions to know. Dispersion Shields are listed under Technoarcana so it could be allowed. We don't know one way or another at this point.
Eyjio wrote: What is the exact wording that units in the Mephirit dynasty have for their weapon selection (I don't own the book)?
It's not a wording in the unit, it's a wording in the Relics:
Characters with the Necrons Faction that are part of a Detachment or Formation presented in this book can select an item from the Relics of the War in Heaven list at the points cost shown.
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote: Is it just me or has the Tesla destructor lost the Arc rule? So no more extra snapshot hits. Price bump. And nor more arc? Would make em kinda sad losing the arc IMO. Rest i can live with just fine
Don't forget it being heavy now
How does that matter aren't all vehicles relentless anyway?
Ugh, it is not my day for remembering rules. But it's also been over a year since my last game as well.
Eyjio wrote: What is the exact wording that units in the Mephirit dynasty have for their weapon selection (I don't own the book)?
It's not a wording in the unit, it's a wording in the Relics:
Characters with the Necrons Faction that are part of a Detachment or Formation presented in this book can select an item from the Relics of the War in Heaven list at the points cost shown.
Huh? Does it just say "use the unit rules from the codex" or something then rather than listing vague profiles?
Voodoo_Chile wrote: How does that matter aren't all vehicles relentless anyway?
This is coming from the company that just put a Salvo 5/10 weapon on Ghost Arks Do not question the rules!
Ha well I think that change is just so they could do away with the weird "Five Gauss Flayers taped together" rule. Salvos are described as "More destructive then Rapid Fire".
Eyjio wrote: Huh? Does it just say "use the unit rules from the codex" or something then rather than listing vague profiles?
Exterminatus is basically a supplement.
It gives additional rules to use with the Codex.
You have a few Formations and a Detachment.
And units in a Detachment/Formation from Exterminatus can take Relics and Warlord Traits from Exterminatus.
Voodoo_Chile wrote: Ha well I think that change is just so they could do away with the weird "Five Gauss Flayers taped together" rule. Salvos are described as "More destructive then Rapid Fire".
But yes, it's a little nonsensical.
You don't hear me complaining.
I can now fire 20 shots at 24" and 30 at 12".
That are five more shots at 24" and in return we can:
-No longer take Warriors with Characters in a GA.
-Pay 10 less for the Ghost Ark.
What's missing though is the purchase list which includes points and purchase restrictions. So it's anyone's guess.
It's right there dude. It would not be the first book set up that way, there are MULTIPLE pices of gear in my DE book I can't buy from the wargear section.
Voodoo_Chile wrote: Ha well I think that change is just so they could do away with the weird "Five Gauss Flayers taped together" rule. Salvos are described as "More destructive then Rapid Fire".
But yes, it's a little nonsensical.
You don't hear me complaining.
I can now fire 20 shots at 24" and 30 at 12".
That are five more shots at 24" and in return we can:
-No longer take Warriors with Characters in a GA.
-Pay 10 less for the Ghost Ark.
Not sure about your math here. The Ghost Ark is relentless, so each array always fires 10 shots regardless of range. So 20 shots all the time (though it's usually 10 at 2 different targets, because of how they are arranged). If you're including the shots from embarked warriors, you're looking at 30 shots from 12-24" and 40 shots at 12" or less.
Skanktastic wrote: Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
Aren't beasts unaffected by difficult terrain, even when charging?
They are not slowed by difficult terrain, pass DT tests and have Fleet.
But Charging tells us that "the charging unit now moves into close combat".
Since the rule says "When moving" and not "In the Movement Phase" I would say that they won't be reduced to I1.
Eyjio wrote: Huh? Does it just say "use the unit rules from the codex" or something then rather than listing vague profiles?
Exterminatus is basically a supplement.
It gives additional rules to use with the Codex.
You have a few Formations and a Detachment.
And units in a Detachment/Formation from Exterminatus can take Relics and Warlord Traits from Exterminatus.
Ohh, so it just basically goes "use overlord rules from codex, also here's some extra stuff it can take" then? That's pretty sweet and yes, it would seem they can take both relics then.
Not sure why anyone's hugely excited over the unique war scythe though, for 30 points you basically gain fleshbane (only even comes into play on T6+ things which can mostly insta-kill you anyway) and master crafted (nice, but not THAT good). The normal scythe is basically superior otherwise.
They're also beasts, it's not a issue. More people should be happier with the Deathmarks if that's their ability to fire on a unit that deep strikes in from reserve.
Galorian wrote: Chronometron is a Cryptek upgrade option listed in their profile page.
They should really make a more boss like model giving how usefull they become - i cannot stand that ape like idiot egyption beard old and undetailed and unimpressive dull look (sry)
Requizen wrote: You can't mix and match relics, unless I'm missing something.
Normally, yes. I'm looking for the actual prohibition though.
Tried both the front of the book where it says relics are one per army, and on the actual relic page.
Does it say models from the Mephirit dynasty can take items from the Technoarcana or Artifacts of the Aeons? If not, you have your answer.
No... the Technoacrcana would be wargear that would be used by whatever models can take the Technoacrana. Artifacts of the Aeons would be our equivalent of relics.
this is not necessarily the case, as is shown by the Dark Eldar codex. Their wargear selection lists reavers, but no one has the ability to select them. Technoarcana most likely has items in it that are not selectable by any character models but are listed in certain unit entries e.g. tomb blades, lychguard.
Eyjio wrote: Ohh, so it just basically goes "use overlord rules from codex, also here's some extra stuff it can take" then? That's pretty sweet and yes, it would seem they can take both relics then.
Not really Relics from book Exterminatus are restricted to Lords/Crypteks in formations/detachments from Exterminatus.
So that means:
-Mephrit Detachment
-Anrakyr's Formation
-Conclave of the Burning One
-Mephrit Dynasty Formation
-Guardians of Perdita Formation
-Zarathusa's Royal Formation
If you take a Combined Arms Detachment, or a Detachment/formation from the new Codex, it is NOT a Detachment/Formation from the Exterminatus-book and therefore you cannot take the Relics from the Exterminatus-book.
Skanktastic wrote: Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
Aren't beasts unaffected by difficult terrain, even when charging?
They are not slowed by terrain and auto-pass dangerous terrain tests.
Not being slowed by terrain/auto-passing dt tests is not the same being unaffected by terrain.
Treating all terrain as open however...
To me this doesn't necessarily prove that Wraiths don't fight at I1 Step when charging throught difficult terrain.
1) There's a difference between "When moving" and "when charging", especially when both statement are explicitly mentioned in the Rulebook.
2) Doesn't the Wraithflight's second statement reminds you of Moving Rules of several unit types? For example in the Jump Infantry Section, Movement phase part: "Jump models cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move
on top of impassable terrain if it is actually possible to place the models on top of it. If they do this, however, they treat the impassable terrain as dangerous terrain". This clearly sounds similar to the claim in question.
Skanktastic wrote: Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
I don't think charging is considered "moving". If charging were to be included, I would think that it would say "when moving or charging"
Agree with you, there are other models (beasts) that do not suffer movement penalties while moving but still suffer init penalty on assault. Unless it says they do not suffer init penalty wraithflight units will still suffer it. It's a core rule, so the special rule- in this case wraithflight- would have to state that it ignores it or modifies it. Since it does not it has no effect on in the init penalty.
Eyjio wrote: Ohh, so it just basically goes "use overlord rules from codex, also here's some extra stuff it can take" then? That's pretty sweet and yes, it would seem they can take both relics then.
Not really Relics from book Exterminatus are restricted to Lords/Crypteks in formations/detachments from Exterminatus.
So that means:
-Mephrit Detachment
-Anrakyr's Formation
-Conclave of the Burning One
-Mephrit Dynasty Formation
-Guardians of Perdita Formation
-Zarathusa's Royal Formation
If you take a Combined Arms Detachment, or a Detachment/formation from the new Codex, it is NOT a Detachment/Formation from the Exterminatus-book and therefore you cannot take the Relics from the Exterminatus-book.
I meant as long as they were from a Mephirit detatchment.
KurtAngle2 wrote: 1) There's a difference between "When moving" and "when charging", especially when both statement are explicitly mentioned in the Rulebook.
I disagree.
'Charge Move' tells us that you move the unit and that you call it a Charge Move.
But no matter how you call it, they are still moving.
If it said: "In the Movement Phase, Wraiths can move over all other models and terrain....." than it wouldn't work in the Charge Move.
But as it is now they definitely treat all terrain as if it were open ground.
Skanktastic wrote: Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
Aren't beasts unaffected by difficult terrain, even when charging?
They are not slowed by terrain and auto-pass dangerous terrain tests.
Not being slowed by terrain/auto-passing dt tests is not the same being unaffected by terrain.
Treating all terrain as open however...
To me this doesn't necessarily prove that Wraiths don't fight at I1 Step when charging throught difficult terrain.
1) There's a difference between "When moving" and "when charging", especially when both statement are explicitly mentioned in the Rulebook.
2) Doesn't the Wraithflight's second statement reminds you of Moving Rules of several unit types? For example in the Jump Infantry Section, Movement phase part: "Jump models cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move
on top of impassable terrain if it is actually possible to place the models on top of it. If they do this, however, they treat the impassable terrain as dangerous terrain". This clearly sounds similar to the claim in question.
Charging is still moving. It doesn't say when moving in the movement phase. It just says when moving. If you treat the terrain as open ground, when moving and you move when you charge, you do not suffer the initiative penalty. That's my take.
Eyjio wrote: I meant as long as they were from a Mephirit detatchment.
Aah yes.
But I am 90% sure the Codex will also have the line "only units in a Codex-detachment can take Codex-relics" because all books have this.
That means an Overlord in a Mephrit Detachment cannot take Codex-Relics.
I think Necrons should have Hatred (Eldar) as well to be honest. Well- the HQ choices anyway obviously cause they've got a bit more about them than the rank and file.
KurtAngle2 wrote: 1) There's a difference between "When moving" and "when charging", especially when both statement are explicitly mentioned in the Rulebook.
I disagree.
'Charge Move' tells us that you move the unit and that you call it a Charge Move.
But no matter how you call it, they are still moving.
If it said: "In the Movement Phase, Wraiths can move over all other models and terrain....." than it wouldn't work in the Charge Move.
But as it is now they definitely treat all terrain as if it were open ground.
I'm sorry, Kangodo... that is the same argument that ultimately failed the last time. Unless it says that it changes the initiative penalty for assaulting into terrain, then it doesn't.
Skanktastic wrote: Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
Aren't beasts unaffected by difficult terrain, even when charging?
You still are reduced to Init 1 if you don't have grenades or stuff that says that your Init isn't reduced.
If you "treat difficult as open terrain" how would you be reduced to I1? Open terrain does not reduce initiative.
Check page 47 of your rulebook please.
"...if at least one model of a assaulting unit goes through a difficult terrain during its charge, All the models in the unit attacks at initiative 1, without any concerne about Initiative modifiers; and even if the assaulting unit isn't slowed down by difficult terrain..."
The only thing that permits you to use your full init is grenades, are Wraiths equipped with Nades?, NO, thank you kind sir.
The only thing that this rule does is that they don't have a -2 on their assault distance.
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm sorry, Kangodo... that is the same argument that ultimately failed the last time. Unless it says that it changes the initiative penalty for assaulting into terrain, then it doesn't.
How do you mean with last time?
It says they treat all terrain as open ground.
Do I get a penalty for charging into open ground?
Skanktastic wrote: Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
Aren't beasts unaffected by difficult terrain, even when charging?
You still are reduced to Init 1 if you don't have grenades or stuff that says that your Init isn't reduced.
If you "treat difficult as open terrain" how would you be reduced to I1? Open terrain does not reduce initiative.
Check page 47 of your rulebook please.
"...if at least one model of a assaulting unit goes through a difficult terrain during its charge, All the models in the unit attacks at initiative 1, without any concerne about Initiative modifiers; and even if the assaulting unit isn't slowed down by difficult terrain..."
So now you agree with me? That is exactly the line I'm using to support my stance. They didn't move through difficult terrain. They moved through open ground. They treat all difficult terrain as open ground.
Eyjio wrote: Huh? Does it just say "use the unit rules from the codex" or something then rather than listing vague profiles?
Exterminatus is basically a supplement.
It gives additional rules to use with the Codex.
You have a few Formations and a Detachment.
And units in a Detachment/Formation from Exterminatus can take Relics and Warlord Traits from Exterminatus.
It also only has three relics total, which may be why it didn't ban them from the main book.
Anyhow: Is it just me, or is there zero reason to take Tesla Immortals or the Conclave of the Burning One any more?
Tesla Immortals can't snap fire, have no AP, and can't take a Stormtek with lightning field for withering overwatch anymore. Add to that Gauss has both anti-vehicle and anti T8+ now. The only advantage is marginally higher hit rate at long range.
Meanwhile the Conclave... Just take a God Shackle elsewhere in your army. 130 plus wargear is a horrendous tax on an already pricey model.
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm sorry, Kangodo... that is the same argument that ultimately failed the last time. Unless it says that it changes the initiative penalty for assaulting into terrain, then it doesn't.
How do you mean with last time?
It says they treat all terrain as open ground.
Do I get a penalty for charging into open ground?
Skanktastic wrote: Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
Aren't beasts unaffected by difficult terrain, even when charging?
You still are reduced to Init 1 if you don't have grenades or stuff that says that your Init isn't reduced.
If you "treat difficult as open terrain" how would you be reduced to I1? Open terrain does not reduce initiative.
Check page 47 of your rulebook please.
"...if at least one model of a assaulting unit goes through a difficult terrain during its charge, All the models in the unit attacks at initiative 1, without any concerne about Initiative modifiers; and even if the assaulting unit isn't slowed down by difficult terrain..."
So now you agree with me? That is exactly the line I'm using to support my stance. They didn't move through difficult terrain. They moved through open ground. They treat all difficult terrain as open ground.
If the thing says that they still are affected by it even if they arn't slowed down by terrain, then it is.
Eyjio wrote: Huh? Does it just say "use the unit rules from the codex" or something then rather than listing vague profiles?
Exterminatus is basically a supplement.
It gives additional rules to use with the Codex.
You have a few Formations and a Detachment.
And units in a Detachment/Formation from Exterminatus can take Relics and Warlord Traits from Exterminatus.
It also only has three relics total, which may be why it didn't ban them from the main book.
Anyhow: Is it just me, or is there zero reason to take Tesla Immortals or the Conclave of the Burning One any more?
Tesla Immortals can't snap fire, have no AP, and can't take a Stormtek with lightning field for withering overwatch anymore. Add to that Gauss has both anti-vehicle and anti T8+ now. The only advantage is marginally higher hit rate at long range.
Meanwhile the Conclave... Just take a God Shackle elsewhere in your army. 130 plus wargear is a horrendous tax on an already pricey model.
but the god shackle would tripple your C'tan (if it still works RAW)
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm sorry, Kangodo... that is the same argument that ultimately failed the last time. Unless it says that it changes the initiative penalty for assaulting into terrain, then it doesn't.
How do you mean with last time?
It says they treat all terrain as open ground.
Do I get a penalty for charging into open ground?
Read my post above please.
And his point is that he's not going through terrain, because with the 'Wraithflight' rule it's open ground.
It has to do more with where the fight is occurring then the how they got there. Without a rule specifically saying you ignore the PENALTY then you have to apply it.
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm sorry, Kangodo... that is the same argument that ultimately failed the last time. Unless it says that it changes the initiative penalty for assaulting into terrain, then it doesn't.
How do you mean with last time?
It says they treat all terrain as open ground.
Do I get a penalty for charging into open ground?
Read my post above please.
And his point is that he's not going through terrain, because with the 'Wraithflight' rule it's open ground.
It's not open ground though, just treated as open ground. That was the issue before like he said.
Skanktastic wrote: Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
Aren't beasts unaffected by difficult terrain, even when charging?
You still are reduced to Init 1 if you don't have grenades or stuff that says that your Init isn't reduced.
If you "treat difficult as open terrain" how would you be reduced to I1? Open terrain does not reduce initiative.
Check page 47 of your rulebook please.
"...if at least one model of a assaulting unit goes through a difficult terrain during its charge, All the models in the unit attacks at initiative 1, without any concerne about Initiative modifiers; and even if the assaulting unit isn't slowed down by difficult terrain..."
The only thing that permits you to use your full init is grenades, are Wraiths equipped with Nades?, NO, thank you kind sir.
The only thing that this rule does is that they don't have a -2 on their assault distance.
Exept their own rule outright states they DIDN'T move throught difficult terrain, thus rendering any rule that comes into effect as a result of moving through difficult terrain never comes into play in the first place.
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm sorry, Kangodo... that is the same argument that ultimately failed the last time. Unless it says that it changes the initiative penalty for assaulting into terrain, then it doesn't.
How do you mean with last time?
It says they treat all terrain as open ground.
Do I get a penalty for charging into open ground?
Skanktastic wrote: Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
Aren't beasts unaffected by difficult terrain, even when charging?
You still are reduced to Init 1 if you don't have grenades or stuff that says that your Init isn't reduced.
If you "treat difficult as open terrain" how would you be reduced to I1? Open terrain does not reduce initiative.
Check page 47 of your rulebook please.
"...if at least one model of a assaulting unit goes through a difficult terrain during its charge, All the models in the unit attacks at initiative 1, without any concerne about Initiative modifiers; and even if the assaulting unit isn't slowed down by difficult terrain..."
So now you agree with me? That is exactly the line I'm using to support my stance. They didn't move through difficult terrain. They moved through open ground. They treat all difficult terrain as open ground.
If the thing says that they still are affected by it even if they arn't slowed down by terrain, then it is.
Riiiiiight. But that's not what it says. It doesn't say they aren't slowed. It doesn't say they are or aren't affected. It says "when moving treat as open ground." If I'm treating it as open ground and open ground does not reduce initiative, then my iniitiative is not lowered.
Compare that with the beasts rules (who most definitely are reduced to I1 if they charge through difficult). It says ignore movement penalties or some such. This is very different wording to anything in the past.
I did, you keep mentioning terrain.
But Wraiths don't know what that is, they treat all of it as open ground.
Does open ground reduce initiative when you charge through it?
changemod wrote: It also only has three relics total, which may be why it didn't ban them from the main book.
Anyhow: Is it just me, or is there zero reason to take Tesla Immortals or the Conclave of the Burning One any more?
Tesla Immortals can't snap fire, have no AP, and can't take a Stormtek with lightning field for withering overwatch anymore. Add to that Gauss has both anti-vehicle and anti T8+ now. The only advantage is marginally higher hit rate at long range.
Meanwhile the Conclave... Just take a God Shackle elsewhere in your army. 130 plus wargear is a horrendous tax on an already pricey model.
But it has a ban, I quoted it.
I think Tesla Immortals still have a place against Hordes.
The Conclave was nice, but is really subpar now.
The tax is too brutal but it's the only way to get the God Shackle unless you ally in a small Mephrit-Detachment which is impossible with the requirements.
Their Wraithflight says THEY count the terrain AS open, not that the terrain is open, so no.
What the heck do you guiys want?, they are allready good enough has is and you still want them to ignore rules because you feel like it?
The rule page 47, is pretty clear,"... even if the unit isn't slowed down by terrain..."..., wich apply to the Wraithflight, Bikes and Beasts/Cavalery.
Skanktastic wrote: Does the wording of wraithflight make it so we dotn lose int on charge through difficult ? Is charging just considered moving ?
Aren't beasts unaffected by difficult terrain, even when charging?
You still are reduced to Init 1 if you don't have grenades or stuff that says that your Init isn't reduced.
If you "treat difficult as open terrain" how would you be reduced to I1? Open terrain does not reduce initiative.
Check page 47 of your rulebook please.
"...if at least one model of a assaulting unit goes through a difficult terrain during its charge, All the models in the unit attacks at initiative 1, without any concerne about Initiative modifiers; and even if the assaulting unit isn't slowed down by difficult terrain..."
The only thing that permits you to use your full init is grenades, are Wraiths equipped with Nades?, NO, thank you kind sir.
The only thing that this rule does is that they don't have a -2 on their assault distance.
Exept their own rule outright states they DIDN'T move throught difficult terrain, thus rendering any rule that comes into effect as a result of moving through difficult terrain never comes into play in the first place.
Thats not what it says at all actually.
Guys wait for the actual book. Then take it up in YMDC.
DarknessEternal wrote: Doesn't matter how many times a C'tan can shoot, it's still most likely dead on Turn 1.
4 wounds at 7 Toughness with only a 4++ save just means you get to roll a lot of dice against wounds that still kill you. Every army runs spam guns.
Hide him behind something. Or reserve him and let him out through the eternity gate ... in the current rules form you can shock a monlith and use the eternity gate the same turn (it is in the faq)
Ugh can you guys just like wait until the Codex is actually out to have a pages long semantic debate.
I wanna talk about how awesome Deathmarks and Tomb Blades are now. Ignore Cover Gauss Weaponry, yessssssssssss. Deep STriking units that shoot other deep striking units, yesssssssss.
Riiiiiight. But that's not what it says. It doesn't say they aren't slowed. It doesn't say they are or aren't affected. It says "when moving treat as open ground." If I'm treating it as open ground and open ground does not reduce initiative, then my iniitiative is not lowered.
Compare that with the beasts rules (who most definitely are reduced to I1 if they charge through difficult). It says ignore movement penalties or some such. This is very different wording to anything in the past.
Different wording, same thing.
plus they still assault a unit that is IN the Terrain, and not a single thing changes that fact.
is like the fething Gravtard argument all over again...
