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No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/28 08:40:52


Post by: tneva82


Yeah no other 3d6 charges in ork codex let alone ones that cause mortals. Nice to get those bonebreakas into combat from DS or 1st turn especially as they can't reroll charge rolls.

Scrapjets are fun. Some point reduction and they would be great. I have 3 of them. Need to finish painting them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/28 16:27:37


Post by: Singleton Mosby


Never noticed the Bonebreaker does not have 'ere we go. That makes the strategem almost a must on longer charges.

Found a nice new 'first turn charge' method yesterday during a good game. I had a Chinork filled with 10 nobz with kustom shootas (40 shots in a transport which moves 16"/24" is awesome!). When I was fed up with my opponents Eldar infantry I charged the Dark reaprrs besides it with my Chinork. Obviously it was destroyed. The nobz jumped out and charged the Reapers and some more infantry besides. This gave them an effective 16+2d6" charge range. Of course it won't always work. But the look on your opponent's face is priceless.

Not sure if this is allowed when the Chinork has advanced. Technically they are no longer passengers of the transport and this have not advanced themselves. Might be pushing it a bit though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/28 17:08:53


Post by: tneva82


What do you mean obviously? Even dark reapers shouldn't obviously get destroyed. Chinork isn't toughest thing in the world but it's not THAT weak unless opponent roll's 6's like god.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/28 19:35:20


Post by: flandarz


I don't have a Knights Codex, so I'm unsure on whether or not the Gork/Mork are *actually* worse than other Knights. Only Knights I really see played are Castellans and Gallants (and maybe Dragoons, I guess?). Damage, survivability, and utility-wise:are Gorks and Morks actually *that* much overpriced than other Knight equivalents? Of the two, I tend to prefer the former, because we already have so many options for dealing with Heavies and Super Heavies, and the Gork has more anti-chaff. But I *do* like that Morks can take KFFs, making them pretty durable buffers.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/28 21:40:26


Post by: SemperMortis


 flandarz wrote:
I don't have a Knights Codex, so I'm unsure on whether or not the Gork/Mork are *actually* worse than other Knights. Only Knights I really see played are Castellans and Gallants (and maybe Dragoons, I guess?). Damage, survivability, and utility-wise:are Gorks and Morks actually *that* much overpriced than other Knight equivalents? Of the two, I tend to prefer the former, because we already have so many options for dealing with Heavies and Super Heavies, and the Gork has more anti-chaff. But I *do* like that Morks can take KFFs, making them pretty durable buffers.


Basic Knight Errant: 409pts (Given Ironstorm because I like it and it makes it almost exactly 100pts more) T8 3+ save 5+ invuln 24 wounds.
Morkanaut: 310pts (Given KFF), T8 3+ save 5+ invuln 18 wounds. So its got 25% less wounds then the Knight Errant.

Knight is 3+ BS the Mork is 5+ The Knight has A Therman cannon, IS Missile Pod and a borderline useless Heavy stubber. The Mork has 2 Rokkitz, 2 Twin Big Shootas, a KMB and a KMZ. The KMZ averages 6 shots and about 2 hits even with Dakkax3, the Rokkitz average .66 hits and the KMB averages .333 hits, Vs the Knight that means 1 Zap wounds, .33 rokkitz wounds, .167 KMB wounds. The Knight gets 5+ save against all of these thanks to its built in invuln so the Zap averages .67 chance to inflict damage, the Rokkitz are .22 and the KMB is .11ish. (Ignoring the easy ability to get a 4+ and even a 3+ invuln with the knight). So you have a .78 chance to inflict D6 damage and a .22 chance to inflict 3 damage. The Knight Errant has D6 shots with its Thermal cannon, so 3.5 average, hitting on 3s so 2.3ish hits This gun is S9 so it wounds on 3s as well so that is 1.5ish chance to wound and the Mork has a 5+ invuln so 1 wound WILL go through which inflicts D6 damage OR 2D6 taking the highest if at half range. The Stubber does meh and the Ironstorm which I added for fun is meh as well, but for fun it averages 3.5 shots 2.3ish hits, .8ish wounds with a 4+ save its .4 chance to damage for 2 flat damage.

In CC the knight is better since it has a Reaper Chainsword which has a flat 6 damage as opposed to the Mork which as D6 and both are WS3+ The Morkanaut could swing 4 attacks, averages 2.66 hits, wounding on 3s is 1.8ish wounds so 1.8 x 3.5 = 6.3 as opposed to the Knight which will be doing 1.6x6 for 10.8

So breaking it down, the Knight Errant is 100pts more but this gives them better ballistic skill, better ranged weaponry with that BS, a better Close combat weapon, more wounds and access to a number of stratagems which make it absolutely devastating OR twice as durable.

And the kicker, the worst part, the Knight Errant isn't considered good, its the Castellan and 1-2 others that are the ones people take which smoke check the Errant.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 00:20:52


Post by: flandarz


Well, if we really want to compare them, we have to "even out" the points. Which would basically be 3 Errants vs 4 Morks. More or less. I'll just multiply some of these numbers by 3 and 4.

Errants: 72 Wounds (between the 3 of them)
Morks: 72 Wounds (between the 4 of them)

Errants: 3.00 chance to inflict D6 damage, 1.2 chance to inflict 2 Damage
Morks: 3.12 chance to inflict D6 Damage, 0.88 chance to inflict 3 Damage

Errants: 4.33 chance to inflict 6 Damage
Morks: 8.76 chance to inflict D6 Damage

I don't have the Codex, but I *did* check Battlescribe (I know, bad habit, but it was the best option I had), and the Knight Errant's Strength (with its weapon) is 2 less than is needed to get a 2+ to Wound, while the Mork gets to Wound on a 2+ against it. The Mork also has better AP-, so while it gets to make a 6+ Save, the Knight cannot Save against its Klaw.

Judging from all this, though, it seems that "point for point" the Errant and the Morkanaut are roughly equal. But I *would* still love some nice Strats for the Nauts, and having some wargear options for them would be dope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Before you say it: yeah, I know you can't field 4 Morks (rule of 3). This is just a point for point comparison of the two.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 01:05:24


Post by: Vineheart01


Strats are the big one. Lots of absolutely rude knight strats while all the nauts' really have going for it is a practically guaranteed charge (3D6 with 'Ere We Go is pretty hard to fail).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 01:13:26


Post by: SemperMortis


 flandarz wrote:
Well, if we really want to compare them, we have to "even out" the points. Which would basically be 3 Errants vs 4 Morks. More or less. I'll just multiply some of these numbers by 3 and 4.

Errants: 72 Wounds (between the 3 of them)
Morks: 72 Wounds (between the 4 of them)

Errants: 3.00 chance to inflict D6 damage, 1.2 chance to inflict 2 Damage
Morks: 3.12 chance to inflict D6 Damage, 0.88 chance to inflict 3 Damage

Errants: 4.33 chance to inflict 6 Damage
Morks: 8.76 chance to inflict D6 Damage

I don't have the Codex, but I *did* check Battlescribe (I know, bad habit, but it was the best option I had), and the Knight Errant's Strength (with its weapon) is 2 less than is needed to get a 2+ to Wound, while the Mork gets to Wound on a 2+ against it. The Mork also has better AP-, so while it gets to make a 6+ Save, the Knight cannot Save against its Klaw.

Judging from all this, though, it seems that "point for point" the Errant and the Morkanaut are roughly equal. But I *would* still love some nice Strats for the Nauts, and having some wargear options for them would be dope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Before you say it: yeah, I know you can't field 4 Morks (rule of 3). This is just a point for point comparison of the two.


LOL, appreciate the math hammering. You didn't include the Thermal Cannon's 2D6 rule though, and if we are counting the KMB as in range the chances are the Thermal will be at half range. And the most important part, the Knight Errant is considered crap and isn't taken Im too tired to break out all the math hammer but if you want to, go compare it to the Castellan or the FW version everyone takes.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 01:19:36


Post by: flandarz


Oh, I know. I was just running the numbers you had. And yeah, I remembered it. Just figured like 4.2 average damage wasn't much more than 3.5, so I let it stand at "D6".

Yeah, I know Castellans are gross. Just pointing out that Gorks/Morks ain't too bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like, to me, there's a difference between "crap" and "worse than other options". A Stompa is crap. Nob Bikers are just worse than your other options.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 03:33:24


Post by: tneva82


Errant is also one of the worst ones even on questors. Gallant, warden and crusader better ones. And top missiles are mostly just point sink


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 03:34:57


Post by: JNAProductions


tneva82 wrote:
Errant is also one of the worst ones even on questors. Gallant, warden and crusader better ones. And top missiles are mostly just point sink


To be fair, against a Gork/Mork, the Errant is probably the second or third best Questoris. DEFINITELY behind the Crusader, maybe behind the Paladin, but a lot better than the Warden.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 05:53:05


Post by: tneva82


Are we talking about list tailoring or overall quality assesment? If tailoring i can say castellan is worthless and throw like 200 grots vs it. And there are units that while good might make even stompa look good. Does it make stompa good?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 13:44:34


Post by: JNAProductions


tneva82 wrote:
Are we talking about list tailoring or overall quality assesment? If tailoring i can say castellan is worthless and throw like 200 grots vs it. And there are units that while good might make even stompa look good. Does it make stompa good?


What units make a Stompa look good? Legitimate question here.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 14:16:54


Post by: tneva82


Well I'm struggling to come up with good ideas but not that cheap anti-infantry units could be good one. Anti-infantry they would struggle to hurt and not being cheap number advantage isn't too bad.

Obelisk? You suffer ~5 wounds by the ~2.4 obelisk you face point to point. Get into combat(24" range, 8" move on obelisk) and one dies quickly.

Albeit is that good normally good unit is another thing.

Ghost arks are getting some use and 8 of those(costs more than stompa) average 4 wounds. Albeit chasing all of those could be tough one.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 14:33:11


Post by: flandarz


Only instance I can think of for a Stompa being "good" would be against a pure Grey Knights list with no AT. And even then, it would probably struggle.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 14:35:11


Post by: PiñaColada


Against a burna boyz horde, backed up by squigbuggies!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 14:50:08


Post by: Gruxz


 flandarz wrote:
Only instance I can think of for a Stompa being "good" would be against a pure Grey Knights list with no AT. And even then, it would probably struggle.


Well it's great for LoS blocking...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 15:15:18


Post by: Jidmah


PiñaColada wrote:
Against a burna boyz horde, backed up by squigbuggies!

I actually did the math on the squig buggies... They are roughly twice as efficient at shooting any possible target than the stompa...

The mek shop is a clear winner though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 15:17:20


Post by: Vineheart01


That just shows how laughable it is if something that is considered overpriced is twice as points effective than a stompa lol


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 15:45:33


Post by: russellmoo


 Jidmah wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Against a burna boyz horde, backed up by squigbuggies!

I actually did the math on the squig buggies... They are roughly twice as efficient at shooting any possible target than the stompa...

The mek shop is a clear winner though.


This is legit proof that the stomps is pure garbage. I tried a squigbuggy out in a game, it survived the whole game, but only because my opponent saw no need to fire a single shot at the thing, it killed a sister and put a wound in a vehicle. It has not seen the table since.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 15:49:16


Post by: mhalko1


Hypothetical here. If you charged a knight with a gorkanaut. Which profile are you going to use? 6 attacks hitting on 3's wounding on 2's with d6 damage into his 5++. Or 18 attacks hitting on 3's wounding on 4's, still needing his 5++ and doing 2 damage each? I always think about this scenario because every save he makes hurts more when a d6 damage gets stopped but you also could roll a 1 or 2 for damage. but wounding on 4s is a lot worse then 2s.

I think i'd be leaning towards the 18 swipe attacks.


Edit: Just ran it through the Ghostlords dice probability. The 18 attacks has better average damage output. (barely) Anything with and invulnerable save is going to be better off making more attacks against. Make me think the other profile might need a slight buff.

The 6 attacks do better average damage output vs a landraider for example.



I also ran it for a Morkanaut shooting at it twice before charging (using first profile still and the shoot twice strat). After both shooting and charging it the Mork averages 15.16 damage. so 15/24 wounds. I couldn't add in DDD triggering on 5's or the DS trait rerolling 1 die each for hit/wound/damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay the rumored change to Mob up was true. it now only affects Boys units.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 16:28:39


Post by: flandarz


I think if you go Deathskullz, you'll want to use the D6 profile. Anything else? Use the 2 damage profile.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 16:30:47


Post by: G00fySmiley


lame... mob up for boys only kinda sucks for loota bomb but i guess it could have been worse. I do hope the revisit the new buggie costs in chapter approved.

I am pretty stoked at no more 3++ on castellans makes em 1/6 more deal-with-able


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 16:35:24


Post by: mhalko1


 G00fySmiley wrote:
lame... mob up for boys only kinda sucks for loota bomb but i guess it could have been worse. I do hope the revisit the new buggie costs in chapter approved.

I am pretty stoked at no more 3++ on castellans makes em 1/6 more deal-with-able


Combined with their price increase!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 16:38:02


Post by: tneva82


Mob up nerfed also with relation to deep strike near non deep strike unit.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 16:40:19


Post by: mhalko1


Fists of Gork can now be applied before Da jump and charge.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 16:44:11


Post by: tneva82


Loota weapon also nerfed. Now it's roll each time you shoot so shoot again can't rely on that 3 anymore.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 17:45:28


Post by: Vineheart01


Interesting, Supa-Lobbas can target out of line of sight now....
Gargsquig is pleased with that one he is


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 18:07:39


Post by: Emicrania


Best FAQ ever IMHO.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 18:25:53


Post by: JNAProductions


Knights only get a 5++ in CC with a relic.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 18:27:43


Post by: gungo


Loota are still decent in a large squad of 15 but not going to win you games by themselves.

Mob up still is good for boys that are mob up and de jumped (now with fists of gork buffed)

Super SAG still decent.

Overall we are still in decent shape... and our main issue knights and imperial soup took a hit. Overall in the balance between codexs we are in decent shape. Even if our tourney competitive list rides on a few decent units and we have a few mediocre units that can use a little love (killa kans, etc)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 18:30:47


Post by: tneva82


RIS stratagem isn't phase restricted so as long as you have inv save in cc you can use the stratagem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW small math tidbit. If you use CP reroll to reroll 1 for shots for lootas and always use shoot twice you went from 4.66 shots per loota to 4.55 shots per loota. Minor drop there. Biggest effect this has is extra unreliability. Especially if your first round took that reroll already.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 18:33:34


Post by: JNAProductions


But they don’t have a native invulnerable save in CC.

It can go to 4++ with RIS and Sanctuary, but without the relic, nothing.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 18:33:36


Post by: Trimarius


With those two nerfs to the loota-bomb, does anyone envision a move away from it, perhaps towards one of the Freeboota/mech lists kicking about? ~70 (90 if you still bring the other ten) shots is a fair bit less destructive than ~133 and that 1/3 loss in firepower is compounded with the ability to target the second unit of lootas if you brought one (and a loss of 1/2 the power if you didn't, but obviously you save some points).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 18:38:33


Post by: tneva82


 JNAProductions wrote:
But they don’t have a native invulnerable save in CC.

It can go to 4++ with RIS and Sanctuary, but without the relic, nothing.


Yes which is why I said so I think. Also there's bunch of knights with inv on h2h natively.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Trimarius wrote:
With those two nerfs to the loota-bomb, does anyone envision a move away from it, perhaps towards one of the Freeboota/mech lists kicking about? ~70 (90 if you still bring the other ten) shots is a fair bit less destructive than ~133 and that 1/3 loss in firepower is compounded with the ability to target the second unit of lootas if you brought one (and a loss of 1/2 the power if you didn't, but obviously you save some points).


Well I never used the 25 anyway. Too resource intensive, too boring to play and was expecting something to happen to it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 18:44:47


Post by: Vineheart01


What was with the SAG entry anyway? Just a clarification? I thought since it didnt say the Loota comment of "roll once for the phase" you had to reroll the strength if you shot twice anyway.
Or did i completely miss something?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 18:48:50


Post by: flandarz


One thing: Models embarked on transports destroyed during a charge cannot charge anymore.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 18:49:17


Post by: Dribble Joy


Clarification afaik. The wording is vague enough to argue both ways.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 19:39:04


Post by: mhalko1


For vehicle krew. Is it defined on the data sheets or is it how many extra Orks are on the vehicle not including driver?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 19:59:42


Post by: tneva82


Where does it matter? Crew plays no part in the game


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:03:56


Post by: mhalko1


tneva82 wrote:
Where does it matter? Crew plays no part in the game


except that the krew are armed with weapons if im not mistaken. which would play a part of the total vehicles capabilities.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:05:13


Post by: tneva82


You have all the weapons you have in datasheet. You don't multiply anything.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:10:54


Post by: mhalko1


tneva82 wrote:
You have all the weapons you have in datasheet. You don't multiply anything.
that actually answers my question. thank you. krew acting as 1 model with the squig launcher.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:15:19


Post by: Emicrania


gungo wrote:


Mob up still is good for boys that are mob up and de jumped (now with fists of gork buffed)


How did it got buffed?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:17:38


Post by: Vineheart01


Its confusing, i dont know why they bothered mentioning crew in the first place.
I originally thought it was that way where all 5 of its crew had the squig launcher and a grot blasta. That thing still performed like butt lol.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:21:48


Post by: mhalko1


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Its confusing, i dont know why they bothered mentioning crew in the first place.
I originally thought it was that way where all 5 of its crew had the squig launcher and a grot blasta. That thing still performed like butt lol.
it should just have been added to the vehicle entry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Emicrania wrote:
gungo wrote:


Mob up still is good for boys that are mob up and de jumped (now with fists of gork buffed)


How did it got buffed?


Before FAQ buffs disappeared when units were removed from the board. So now you can cast fists and get da jumped to 9"


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:25:28


Post by: gungo


 Emicrania wrote:
gungo wrote:


Mob up still is good for boys that are mob up and de jumped (now with fists of gork buffed)


How did it got buffed?

There was an argument a unit that was deep struck appeared as if it came from tactical reserves and couldn’t maintain existing buffs and thus powers like fists of gork never stayed.

I didn’t play it that way but it was enough of an issue that GW felt the need to clarify this rule multiple times in the new faq and in the designers commentary.

40 boyz are brutal if you can get enough of them in combat!! Outside of evil suns with a mek w kff on bike that is able to get in range of da jumped boyz that’s usually hard to do!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:29:14


Post by: mhalko1


gungo wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
gungo wrote:


Mob up still is good for boys that are mob up and de jumped (now with fists of gork buffed)


How did it got buffed?

There was an argument a unit that was deep struck appeared as if it came from tactical reserves and couldn’t maintain existing buffs and thus powers like fists of gork never stayed.

I didn’t play it that way but it was enough of an issue that GW felt the need to clarify this rule multiple times in the new faq and in the designers commentary.

40 str6 boyz are brutal if you can get enough of them in combat!!


Fists of Gork only affects 1 model though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:29:31


Post by: tneva82


fist of gork only applies to one model so getting 40 S6 boyz is pretty tough prospect ;-)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:30:36


Post by: Vineheart01


str 6 boyz? how?
Fists of Gork is a character-specific buff. Its for warbosses and wartrikes.

Boyz want Warpath, +1 attack


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:34:39


Post by: gungo


Sorry warpath instead!!! I haven’t played in a bit.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:42:24


Post by: Emicrania


A ok, I hoped in an unseen buff for a second.

I found this gem thought:

Q: Are Killa Kans able to use the Dread Waaagh!, Kustom
Ammo or Mek Connections Stratagems, despite having the
Gretchin keyword?
A: Yes.


It is so hysterical, I had to comment on the FB page ....


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:45:01


Post by: Vineheart01


i'd rather them have access to Ramming Speed than those two strats....
If a full strength killakan squad slams into something it still butchers them in melee, ramming speed would let them get there so much faster on top of the mortal wounds.

But who am i kidding that would just be niche not enough to make them good.

Also anybody notice that shooting phase abilities affect overwatch? Atleast non BS modifying ones since theres a clause about that. bad Moonz can reroll 1's in overwatch now! woot! Charge my 30 shoota boyz now i dares ya!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 20:51:17


Post by: Emicrania


One question, can you tank an eversor shot with the grot oiler from the SSAG?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/29 21:38:03


Post by: flandarz


Except for the MWs, yes.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 01:20:21


Post by: Grimskul


Pretty good FAQ overall I'd say, there were some weird stuff they addressed that's good as well as obvious ones (Knights, Assassins being a no-brainer for the stratagem vs taking them via detachment). I saw the Loota bomb nerf coming a mile away and I really only used Mek Gunz anyways so it doesn't affect my lists. This, in conjunction with Ynnari changes have mixed things up pretty well. At most, we have people being salty over IG still having infantry squads at 4 ppm, and I'd say that's progress!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 10:28:03


Post by: Emicrania


 flandarz wrote:
Except for the MWs, yes.


How do you get around that we cannot screen a character with another character?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 10:30:39


Post by: tneva82


For the grot? The thing that it's one unit rather than 2 individual models?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Competive tournament on sunday. 2k, no flowchart, scenarios mix of eternal war, maelstrom and killpoints(max gap 6). Going for shooty list.

Batallion: deathskull

Big mek w/ssag and big killa boss
weirdboy

30xboyz(nob w/power klaw)
30xboyz(nob w/big choppa)
10xgretchin

batallion: deathskull

warboss w/big choppa
weirdboy

3x10 gretchin

batallion: evil sun

badruk
weirdboy

30xboyz(nob w/power klaw, all shootas)
2x30 gretchin

15xlootas
3xtraktor kannon
4xsmasha gun
kustom mega kannon


2k to the dot.

How does it look?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 15:30:02


Post by: russellmoo


Is Badrukk there simply for the additional shooting from his gun? Do you bring along an ammo runt for him?

I have been interested in running him as well as he seems like he can contribute to an ork gun line.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 15:34:49


Post by: tneva82


Gun, cheap hq. Another warboss seems to be without role and not much else for that price. Next options would be reqular sag or mega armour mek w/kff but that's pricey point wise


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 16:51:44


Post by: Emicrania


russellmoo wrote:
Is Badrukk there simply for the additional shooting from his gun? Do you bring along an ammo runt for him?

I have been interested in running him as well as he seems like he can contribute to an ork gun line.


He only boost Flash gitz


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 16:54:16


Post by: tneva82


Gun doesn't boost. Gun shoots at enemy ;-)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 17:26:23


Post by: flandarz


While Badrukk really shines alongside Flash Gitz, he's a fine HQ on his own too.

I also like that a FG Kaptin can (with Freebootaz) hit on 2s and reroll 1s (with Badrukk around). Too bad you can't just replace every FG with a Kaptin.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 17:32:46


Post by: Vineheart01


Badrukk is oddly accurate for an ork and his gun is nothing to scoff at.
The reroll 1s works on flash gitz and he does have that keyword.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 17:49:00


Post by: tneva82


Don't have room for flash gits(what to drop?) And tge two would be only units getting hit bonus. Plenty of mek guns to trigger for first turn or two though


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 18:00:08


Post by: flandarz


FGs fill basically the same roll that Lootas do, so you *could* replace those. I personally wouldn't, but you *could*.

Honestly, the only thing I would change in your list would be to drop the Traktorz. Smashas will average more shots, and even factoring in the auto hit vs 4+, deal more damage. I don't think I've ever managed to take down anything with the Traktorz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 18:02:43


Post by: russellmoo


I've been thinking about running flashgitz and it seems that you either need to go all in with a battalion of freebooterz, or run them in a spearhead, with Badrukk as hq two units of flashgitz and mek guns as the third heavy slot.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 18:13:06


Post by: tneva82


 flandarz wrote:
FGs fill basically the same roll that Lootas do, so you *could* replace those. I personally wouldn't, but you *could*.

Honestly, the only thing I would change in your list would be to drop the Traktorz. Smashas will average more shots, and even factoring in the auto hit vs 4+, deal more damage. I don't think I've ever managed to take down anything with the Traktorz.



Think lootas are better ;-) Even after deffgun nerf. Never used 25 lootas anyway as I suspected it would not last so that doesn't matter.

For smasha guns a) I ran out of smasha guns. 36e is kinda expensive. Also there's tons of eldar fliers around...Good luck hitting those on 6's with smasha guns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
russellmoo wrote:
I've been thinking about running flashgitz and it seems that you either need to go all in with a battalion of freebooterz, or run them in a spearhead, with Badrukk as hq two units of flashgitz and mek guns as the third heavy slot.


And here I run into model trouble. Don't have anything suitable for full out freeboota force and even flashgits are limited to 7 I think(or was it 8) and only 5 are painted.

Freebootas need more work before they can be used for me. And more money. Not in priority though. First need to get necrons to playable force. 12k orks are enough for now even without freeboota department!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 19:30:29


Post by: flandarz


If they work for you, more power to ya. In my experience, they just haven't been up to snuff.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/04/30 21:26:45


Post by: office_waaagh


I think you're going to have morale problems with your big units of grots without a warboss of the same Klan. Might want to re-jig where the warboss goes and where Badrukk goes. Honestly I don't think you're getting much out of the evil sunz kultur, I'd go bad moons or freebootas with that third detachment instead.

Personally with how many mek Gunz and lootas you're bringing I don't think Badrukk's gun is adding much that you can't already do, I think you'll get a lot more out of a KFF but it really depends how you plan to use your boys and grots and how you see yourself deploying. If the Boyz are holding the midfield then a KFF will matter, if they're da jumping all over the place then it's a lot less useful.

Only other suggestion I'd make is drop the KMK and take a min unit of bikes or a deffkopta to grab objectives with. Your call, but to me a bit of mobility with those 60 points does more for you than another D6 S8 shots.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/01 06:57:04


Post by: tneva82


That reminds me forgot the runtherd from list so that takes care of morale issue in the odd case there's actually survivors. Don't have bad moon warboss so can't do that.

KFF would require dropping 35 pts from somewhere.

Boyz are waiting in DS and somewhere out of LOS to be used to grab objectives.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/01 12:23:49


Post by: PiñaColada


Since the SAG wording is changed to ‘Each time this unit is chosen to shoot with, roll once to determine the Strength characteristic of this weapon.’, does this now mean we roll for S before choosing a target? Because that language mirrors the obliterators and those guys roll for stats before choosing a target IIRC.

For clarity's sake here's the oblit text "When this unit is chosen to shoot in the Shooting phase or fires Overwatch, roll three D3, one after the other, to determine the characteristics of the unit’s fleshmetal guns for that Shooting phase or Overwatch attack... "


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/01 13:43:35


Post by: Vineheart01


That...would be an unusually awesome change if thats the case.
with the warlord trait its generally not a problem but still annoying when youre firing at a T8 target and roll 4 or less strength.
Would actually be a massive buff for the random SAG since w/o the warlord trait its very likely it ends up rolling a bad strength for a vehicle.

edit: looked at the battleprimer shooting phase sequence, and yeah this is the case. You pick a unit, then you pick a target, then you pick which weapons to fire at that target.
Since we roll strength when the SAG is chosen to fire, no more "Crap i rolled a 3.." issues against high toughness!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/01 17:21:51


Post by: G00fySmiley


 Vineheart01 wrote:
That...would be an unusually awesome change if thats the case.
with the warlord trait its generally not a problem but still annoying when youre firing at a T8 target and roll 4 or less strength.
Would actually be a massive buff for the random SAG since w/o the warlord trait its very likely it ends up rolling a bad strength for a vehicle.

edit: looked at the battleprimer shooting phase sequence, and yeah this is the case. You pick a unit, then you pick a target, then you pick which weapons to fire at that target.
Since we roll strength when the SAG is chosen to fire, no more "Crap i rolled a 3.." issues against high toughness!


that is how the series of events seems to work now. super useful, though I do hope in the next CA they do something to make orks less random on shot numbers like lootas maybe d3 per gun not rolled together so one bad dice roll does not ruin a expensive unit or a 1 shot on a BS5+ model.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/01 17:32:14


Post by: Emicrania


Can anybody explain to me ELI5 why we can tank a W with the grot oiler with the SSAG?
I think I got it but I can't explain it to my group and I look like someone screaming at seagulls from the sidewalk.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/01 17:37:56


Post by: Vineheart01


Oiler is part of the unit the SAG is made of.
Unlike drones, the oiler is not broken off and becomes its own entity. Neither do Ammo Runts for Nobz for that matter.
Thus, since he's part of the unit and not a "reminder model" anymore and has a proper profile, he is valid to take a hit for his mek boss with no rolls or anything needed.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/01 18:03:41


Post by: mhalko1


PiñaColada wrote:
Since the SAG wording is changed to ‘Each time this unit is chosen to shoot with, roll once to determine the Strength characteristic of this weapon.’, does this now mean we roll for S before choosing a target? Because that language mirrors the obliterators and those guys roll for stats before choosing a target IIRC.

For clarity's sake here's the oblit text "When this unit is chosen to shoot in the Shooting phase or fires Overwatch, roll three D3, one after the other, to determine the characteristics of the unit’s fleshmetal guns for that Shooting phase or Overwatch attack... "


pretty sure No. check the shooting phase order of procedure. 1. choose unit to shoot with. 2. choose targets. 3. choose ranged weapon. So we still have to declare target before rolling the weapon S.

Although you are starting to make me look into this further. this should need an faq from GW. because I could see how the order could be interpreted that way.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/01 18:06:32


Post by: tneva82


Except FAQ just changed "each time this unit is chosen to shoot with".

That would be phase 1(choose unit to shoot with). Not 3(choose ranged weapon)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/01 18:35:55


Post by: flandarz


I gotta agree. You'll roll for SAG Strength when you choose the unit. Pretty clear. Which is *real* nice. Roll a crap S? Hit some chaff. Get that sweet 11+? Hit the armor, baby.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/01 18:58:34


Post by: Emicrania


mhalko1 wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Since the SAG wording is changed to ‘Each time this unit is chosen to shoot with, roll once to determine the Strength characteristic of this weapon.’, does this now mean we roll for S before choosing a target? Because that language mirrors the obliterators and those guys roll for stats before choosing a target IIRC.

For clarity's sake here's the oblit text "When this unit is chosen to shoot in the Shooting phase or fires Overwatch, roll three D3, one after the other, to determine the characteristics of the unit’s fleshmetal guns for that Shooting phase or Overwatch attack... "


pretty sure No. check the shooting phase order of procedure. 1. choose unit to shoot with. 2. choose targets. 3. choose ranged weapon. So we still have to declare target before rolling the weapon S.

Although you are starting to make me look into this further. this should need an faq from GW. because I could see how the order could be interpreted that way.



You do number one, than you roll S, than you do nr 2. "[...] Is chosen to shoot with[...]" .
If you look the lootas faq it says [...]when they resolve the attack[...]" To roll a D3
The difference is pretty clear once you follow the sequence


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/02 00:55:08


Post by: inquisitorham


I thought id share my experiences at local small tournie on the weekend. It's 1250 points and a little competitive (some bring relatively "normal" lists, but then there are occasional triple flyers and morty/magnus lists). Here's my list..

Evil Suns battalion
Warboss on bike (index)
Big Mek with KFF (index)
2 units of 29 sluggas and 1 unit of 29 shootas
3 mega nobs

Badmoons battalion
Weirdboy w/ da jump
Big mek with SSAG
3 units of gretchin
3 smasha guns

My first game was against eldar who took a fire prism and 2 grav tanks that can indirect fire, some guardians, dark repears and eldrad. Those artillery tanks were a pretty good counter to my boyz. He got 1st turn and completely wiped out a unit of boys with his tanks and guardians. The next turn unfortunately sealed my fate as i failed multiple 5-7 inch charges. I did manage to make a charge on his 20 man guardian squad with my boyz but he managed to survive with 5 and auto pass morale. In hindsight i should have fought twice (but was holding on to my 3CP for unstoppable green tide - need to be more flexible i think). Anyway his next turn I was out in the open and he made short work of my boyz. So a loss for me and we stopped early to get lunch - yes i had bad charge rolls, but he also had first turn and just out manoeuvred me.

The next game was against eldar again - but this was a mixed dark/craftworld list with 3 flyers, some wracks and a big unit of talos. Well my initial bad deployment caused the turn 1 loss of my warboss (didnt realise flyers could move that far!). But my SSAG response was to instantly nuke 2 fliers the next turn and remaining one the turn after that. So happy this didnt get nerfed in the faq. I was doing well until i decided to charge his talos and he used something to make me fight last. This game actually finished in a draw due to time. I learnt a lesson about charging talos.... In hindsight i should have just fallen back with my boyz and used my shooting as he didnt have any good shooting with the death of his planes.

The final game was against imperial guard - and a crushing victory to the orks. I got 1st turn, da jump and first turn charge and my SSAG was taking a tank out every turn. Not much to say about this game apart from just saying the soupa up shokka is awesome.

So looking at my list the only auto include in the SSAG. The warboss on bike was underwhelming - only 4 attacks and essentially no armour save, he ended up dying every game. Yes he allows my boyz to advanced and charge but they would be likely in on turn 2 anyway. Im not quite sure where he fits in future lists. Im also slightly unimpressed my boyz - yes they could rid of some chaff, but they are quite expensive in large units and didnt seem to make their points back. Also (and maybe i just rolled bad) - my smasha guns didnt live up to the hype (but then again i was shooting at tanks with them instead of heavy infantry).

With this in mind i've changed my list for next time

Evilsuns battalion
Weirdboy - war path
Big mek with KFF
30 sluggas with nob with PK
10 sluggas with nob with PK
20 shootas with nob with BC

Badmoons battalion
Big mek with SSAG
Weirdboy - da jump
3 units of 10 grots
10 tankbustas
15 lootas

So i've reduced my boyz from 90 to 60. I'll mob up and warpath a unit of 40 and really go all in with da jump (or maybe just advance under the cover of a KFF). The other unit of 20 can be for distraction and/or objective holding. My tankbustas will likely go for a suicide da jump and more dakka/showing off and go down in a blaze of glory. A max unit of lootas behind the grotz for obvious reasons, hopeful this will help me if i run across talos again.

Anyway, well done if you read all that! Be great to hear some comments on the list.






No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/02 05:19:43


Post by: Marklarr


 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd rather them have access to Ramming Speed than those two strats....
If a full strength killakan squad slams into something it still butchers them in melee, ramming speed would let them get there so much faster on top of the mortal wounds.

But who am i kidding that would just be niche not enough to make them good.

Also anybody notice that shooting phase abilities affect overwatch? Atleast non BS modifying ones since theres a clause about that. bad Moonz can reroll 1's in overwatch now! woot! Charge my 30 shoota boyz now i dares ya!


Where did you see that bad moons get their reroll 1’s from overwatch? I can’t find that anywhere.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/02 05:28:35


Post by: Rex2490


 Marklarr wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd rather them have access to Ramming Speed than those two strats....
If a full strength killakan squad slams into something it still butchers them in melee, ramming speed would let them get there so much faster on top of the mortal wounds.

But who am i kidding that would just be niche not enough to make them good.

Also anybody notice that shooting phase abilities affect overwatch? Atleast non BS modifying ones since theres a clause about that. bad Moonz can reroll 1's in overwatch now! woot! Charge my 30 shoota boyz now i dares ya!


Where did you see that bad moons get their reroll 1’s from overwatch? I can’t find that anywhere.


Q: When a rule allows a model or unit to take an action (move,
shoot, charge, fight or attempt to manifest a psychic power)
outside of the normal turn sequence, and that rule explicitly
mentions to make that action as if it were a different phase of the
turn structure to the current one, e.g. ‘That unit can shoot as if it
were the Shooting phase’, do rules that are normally used during
that phase (in the example this would be the Shooting phase) take
effect? Is the same true of Overwatch attacks?
A: With the exception of Stratagems, all rules (e.g.
abilities, Warlord Traits, psychic powers etc.) that would
apply in a specific phase apply to actions that are taking
place ‘as if it were that phase’. However, if a Stratagem
specifies that it must be used in a specific phase, then
it can only be used in that phase (e.g. you cannot use a
Stratagem that says ‘Use this Stratagem in the Shooting
phase’ to affect a unit that is Shooting ‘as if it were
the Shooting phase’). For the purposes of this FAQ,
Overwatch attacks are also considered to be attacks made
as if it were your Shooting phase.

Page 9 in the Rulebook FAQ/Errata


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/02 14:51:01


Post by: Gruxz


Q: Can a model take the same wargear option more than once?
For example, can a Space Marine Terminator replace his storm
bolter with a cyclone missile launcher and another storm bolter,
and then replace its ‘new’ storm bolter with a heavy flamer?
A: No. Each bullet-pointed wargear option on a unit’s
datasheet can only be used once each time you include
that unit in your army.

Would this mean that nobz can no longer take 2 choppas?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/02 15:08:28


Post by: Trimarius


Gruxz wrote:
Q: Can a model take the same wargear option more than once?
For example, can a Space Marine Terminator replace his storm
bolter with a cyclone missile launcher and another storm bolter,
and then replace its ‘new’ storm bolter with a heavy flamer?
A: No. Each bullet-pointed wargear option on a unit’s
datasheet can only be used once each time you include
that unit in your army.

Would this mean that nobz can no longer take 2 choppas?


They still can, as that's handled in the wargear section (not the datasheet's options). This doesn't really affect Orks much (I guess you can't trade a choppa for a choppa and then trade that choppa in for a klaw, but there's no reason to do it that way), it's just to stop you from swapping the same weapon multiple times in order to get weird combos in other books.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/02 22:13:51


Post by: r_squared


inquisitorham wrote:
Spoiler:
I thought id share my experiences at local small tournie on the weekend. It's 1250 points and a little competitive (some bring relatively "normal" lists, but then there are occasional triple flyers and morty/magnus lists). Here's my list..

Evil Suns battalion
Warboss on bike (index)
Big Mek with KFF (index)
2 units of 29 sluggas and 1 unit of 29 shootas
3 mega nobs

Badmoons battalion
Weirdboy w/ da jump
Big mek with SSAG
3 units of gretchin
3 smasha guns

My first game was against eldar who took a fire prism and 2 grav tanks that can indirect fire, some guardians, dark repears and eldrad. Those artillery tanks were a pretty good counter to my boyz. He got 1st turn and completely wiped out a unit of boys with his tanks and guardians. The next turn unfortunately sealed my fate as i failed multiple 5-7 inch charges. I did manage to make a charge on his 20 man guardian squad with my boyz but he managed to survive with 5 and auto pass morale. In hindsight i should have fought twice (but was holding on to my 3CP for unstoppable green tide - need to be more flexible i think). Anyway his next turn I was out in the open and he made short work of my boyz. So a loss for me and we stopped early to get lunch - yes i had bad charge rolls, but he also had first turn and just out manoeuvred me.

The next game was against eldar again - but this was a mixed dark/craftworld list with 3 flyers, some wracks and a big unit of talos. Well my initial bad deployment caused the turn 1 loss of my warboss (didnt realise flyers could move that far!). But my SSAG response was to instantly nuke 2 fliers the next turn and remaining one the turn after that. So happy this didnt get nerfed in the faq. I was doing well until i decided to charge his talos and he used something to make me fight last. This game actually finished in a draw due to time. I learnt a lesson about charging talos.... In hindsight i should have just fallen back with my boyz and used my shooting as he didnt have any good shooting with the death of his planes.

The final game was against imperial guard - and a crushing victory to the orks. I got 1st turn, da jump and first turn charge and my SSAG was taking a tank out every turn. Not much to say about this game apart from just saying the soupa up shokka is awesome.

So looking at my list the only auto include in the SSAG. The warboss on bike was underwhelming - only 4 attacks and essentially no armour save, he ended up dying every game. Yes he allows my boyz to advanced and charge but they would be likely in on turn 2 anyway. Im not quite sure where he fits in future lists. Im also slightly unimpressed my boyz - yes they could rid of some chaff, but they are quite expensive in large units and didnt seem to make their points back. Also (and maybe i just rolled bad) - my smasha guns didnt live up to the hype (but then again i was shooting at tanks with them instead of heavy infantry).

With this in mind i've changed my list for next time

Evilsuns battalion
Weirdboy - war path
Big mek with KFF
30 sluggas with nob with PK
10 sluggas with nob with PK
20 shootas with nob with BC

Badmoons battalion
Big mek with SSAG
Weirdboy - da jump
3 units of 10 grots
10 tankbustas
15 lootas

So i've reduced my boyz from 90 to 60. I'll mob up and warpath a unit of 40 and really go all in with da jump (or maybe just advance under the cover of a KFF). The other unit of 20 can be for distraction and/or objective holding. My tankbustas will likely go for a suicide da jump and more dakka/showing off and go down in a blaze of glory. A max unit of lootas behind the grotz for obvious reasons, hopeful this will help me if i run across talos again.

Anyway, well done if you read all that! Be great to hear some comments on the list.


I tend to agree with the idea that large mobs of Boyz are not as effective as they used to be.
Unless you're totally sold on lootas I'd give the smasha gun another go, and maybe run the ssag battalion as freebootas. Use the smashas to get your +1 to hit and reap the benefits with your ssag and tankbustas.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/02 23:53:53


Post by: Marklarr


That’s ace man, thanks. Makes those Badmoon bikers, boys and Naughts a lot more spicier in overwatch.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/03 16:24:38


Post by: mhalko1


 r_squared wrote:
inquisitorham wrote:
Spoiler:
I thought id share my experiences at local small tournie on the weekend. It's 1250 points and a little competitive (some bring relatively "normal" lists, but then there are occasional triple flyers and morty/magnus lists). Here's my list..

Evil Suns battalion
Warboss on bike (index)
Big Mek with KFF (index)
2 units of 29 sluggas and 1 unit of 29 shootas
3 mega nobs

Badmoons battalion
Weirdboy w/ da jump
Big mek with SSAG
3 units of gretchin
3 smasha guns

My first game was against eldar who took a fire prism and 2 grav tanks that can indirect fire, some guardians, dark repears and eldrad. Those artillery tanks were a pretty good counter to my boyz. He got 1st turn and completely wiped out a unit of boys with his tanks and guardians. The next turn unfortunately sealed my fate as i failed multiple 5-7 inch charges. I did manage to make a charge on his 20 man guardian squad with my boyz but he managed to survive with 5 and auto pass morale. In hindsight i should have fought twice (but was holding on to my 3CP for unstoppable green tide - need to be more flexible i think). Anyway his next turn I was out in the open and he made short work of my boyz. So a loss for me and we stopped early to get lunch - yes i had bad charge rolls, but he also had first turn and just out manoeuvred me.

The next game was against eldar again - but this was a mixed dark/craftworld list with 3 flyers, some wracks and a big unit of talos. Well my initial bad deployment caused the turn 1 loss of my warboss (didnt realise flyers could move that far!). But my SSAG response was to instantly nuke 2 fliers the next turn and remaining one the turn after that. So happy this didnt get nerfed in the faq. I was doing well until i decided to charge his talos and he used something to make me fight last. This game actually finished in a draw due to time. I learnt a lesson about charging talos.... In hindsight i should have just fallen back with my boyz and used my shooting as he didnt have any good shooting with the death of his planes.

The final game was against imperial guard - and a crushing victory to the orks. I got 1st turn, da jump and first turn charge and my SSAG was taking a tank out every turn. Not much to say about this game apart from just saying the soupa up shokka is awesome.

So looking at my list the only auto include in the SSAG. The warboss on bike was underwhelming - only 4 attacks and essentially no armour save, he ended up dying every game. Yes he allows my boyz to advanced and charge but they would be likely in on turn 2 anyway. Im not quite sure where he fits in future lists. Im also slightly unimpressed my boyz - yes they could rid of some chaff, but they are quite expensive in large units and didnt seem to make their points back. Also (and maybe i just rolled bad) - my smasha guns didnt live up to the hype (but then again i was shooting at tanks with them instead of heavy infantry).

With this in mind i've changed my list for next time

Evilsuns battalion
Weirdboy - war path
Big mek with KFF
30 sluggas with nob with PK
10 sluggas with nob with PK
20 shootas with nob with BC

Badmoons battalion
Big mek with SSAG
Weirdboy - da jump
3 units of 10 grots
10 tankbustas
15 lootas

So i've reduced my boyz from 90 to 60. I'll mob up and warpath a unit of 40 and really go all in with da jump (or maybe just advance under the cover of a KFF). The other unit of 20 can be for distraction and/or objective holding. My tankbustas will likely go for a suicide da jump and more dakka/showing off and go down in a blaze of glory. A max unit of lootas behind the grotz for obvious reasons, hopeful this will help me if i run across talos again.

Anyway, well done if you read all that! Be great to hear some comments on the list.


I tend to agree with the idea that large mobs of Boyz are not as effective as they used to be.
Unless you're totally sold on lootas I'd give the smasha gun another go, and maybe run the ssag battalion as freebootas. Use the smashas to get your +1 to hit and reap the benefits with your ssag and tankbustas.


Also how much of an emphasis was the evil suns trait in your game? you mentioned you failed multiple charges even with that +1" it might make more sense to switch them to another trait as well. DS for 6++ or badmoons to run shoota boys.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/03 16:51:05


Post by: tneva82


Or he was unlucky. 78% odds and you shouldn't be failing that often(22% times in fact). Do you discount lootas because you roll 1 shot per guy and 10% of hits couple times?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/03 20:56:23


Post by: DaisyWondercow


Typically, I bring 60 boyz in my lists (I know, rookie numbers, stick with me), in two groups of 30. However, I'm wondering if there might be advantages to doing 6 groups of 10 and getting that sweet, sweet Brigade bonus. Groups of 10 mean more nobz (awesome), more tankbusta bombs (awesome), more DeffSkull rerolls, and less vulnerability to certain anti-infantry weapons like gatling canons. Downsides, morale takes a bit of a hit, you don't get the +1A, and you can't jump as easily.

With the oodles of CP, you could comfortably use Mob Up each round on surviving units. I think this "consolidating as they run down the field" could be an interesting usage of Mob Up, rather than the usual "grab a buddy before I throw strategems/powers at you". Has anyone tried this configuration? Any lessons learned?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/03 21:05:03


Post by: tneva82


Also less stratagem efficiency. It will cost you 12 CP to deep strike them rather than 4. Morale takes issue, you lose +1 attack, harder to coordinate attacks as some will reach and some won't. Endless tide and fight 2nd time will become useless piece of you know what.

Oh and tank busta bombs are same. 1 per 10. You get 3 for 30, 3 for 3 squads of 10.

Mob up is also once per unit so you won't mob up them all game(and then you are losing death skull rerolls). And btw opponent needs to kill just 1 model per unit and no more mob up...And that's not too hard with split fires.

Only sense in this is death skull rerolls so load up on rokkits then at least. And forget mob up. Whole goal is those rerolls so keep 'em!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/03 21:13:04


Post by: JNAProductions


Aren’t TB Bombs grenades, so you can only fire one per squad?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/03 21:35:19


Post by: Thayme


So I finally finished reading the thread and I've gotta say it was worth the read.
Great effort by Jidmah and all the others who contributed, not just to the first post but the conversation.

Anyway, I've been tinkering with a freebooterz list for a while and wouldn't mind some input.

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [19 PL, 8CP, 409pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 4. Fists of Gork

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 225pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Big Shoota
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Big Shoota
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Big Shoota
. 26x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Orks) [46 PL, , 933pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

Detachment CP [1CP]

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Big Killa Boss, Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun, Warlord

+ Heavy Support +

Gorkanaut [15 PL, 311pts]: 2x Rokkit Launcha, Skorcha, 2x Twin Big Shoota

Mek Gunz [12 PL, 228pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Traktor Kannon
. Gun: Traktor Kannon
. Gun: Traktor Kannon

Morkanaut [15 PL, 310pts]: Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta, Kustom Mega-zappa, 2x Rokkit Launcha, 2x Twin Big Shoota

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Orks) [33 PL, 1CP, 657pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Detachment CP [1CP]

+ HQ +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]

+ Heavy Support +

BoneBreaker [9 PL, 179pts]: 4x Big Shoota, Deff Rolla

BoneBreaker [9 PL, 179pts]: 4x Big Shoota, Deff Rolla

BoneBreaker [9 PL, 179pts]: 4x Big Shoota, Deff Rolla

++ Total: [98 PL, 9CP, 1999pts] ++

The 2 things I'm not sure of are the lone squad of Boyz and the morkanaught. I might swap out the Mork for a second gork but I have no idea what to do with the Boyz. I'm worried they'll get shot off the board early because they are my only infantry.

Any help would be much appreciated!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/03 22:27:51


Post by: Vineheart01


Tankbusta bombs are indeed grenades, i dont even bother having more than 1 model marked as a tankbusta carrier.

The problem with running 6x10 boyz is they lose the morale bonus from Mob Rule, since it only shares between units not increases in value. And thats pretty much the only thing keeping them from running away from a stiff breeze.
Not to mention -1 attack for being less than 20 strong.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/04 12:57:32


Post by: SemperMortis


 JNAProductions wrote:
Aren’t TB Bombs grenades, so you can only fire one per squad?
Yup, which is why when idiots were saying "Yeah boyz went up in price but you can take a tankbusta bomb which was 10pts so it works out!" i was pointing out that exact thing, you an only use 1 per squad. Boyz got nerfed by themselves in our codex, you can argue Kulture until you are blue in the face, it won't change the fact that ork boyz got a points increase when basically no other faction's infantry did, and the tankbusta bomb argument was dumb 6 months ago. With the change to Mob Up I really don't see orkz hitting the top tables anymore. In fact, with all the nerfs handed out it looks to me like the Eldar Flyers list is going to be king of the battle field again.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/04 14:06:45


Post by: flandarz


To be fair, this argument is incredibly similar to the argument from like 6 months ago. Ie: "Orkz aren't good!" Which is just as wrong then as it is now. The loss of Mobbing Up Lootas *does* suck, but we ended up getting a significant buff to our SAGs and SSAGs, and it ain't like Lootas are garbage now or something.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/04 18:22:38


Post by: koooaei


You can use a 1 cp strategem to throw those 3 tankbusta bombz if you wish

Anywayz, back to boyz. It seems boyz are not mandatory for a good ork list. Even the 30 blob might not be worth it in larger games. Though it does seem to be mandatory for 1500 and below. I'd still stick to 1 squad of 30 boyz. The opponents focus on greentide too much. Means grots get more opportunities to score and win us games.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/04 20:19:38


Post by: SemperMortis


 flandarz wrote:
To be fair, this argument is incredibly similar to the argument from like 6 months ago. Ie: "Orkz aren't good!" Which is just as wrong then as it is now. The loss of Mobbing Up Lootas *does* suck, but we ended up getting a significant buff to our SAGs and SSAGs, and it ain't like Lootas are garbage now or something.


I disagree, without sinking CP into them, Lootas are trash. They die turn 1 and if they don't they only average about 6 damage a turn to a T7 vehicle with a 3+ save. Putting them in 20-25 Loota squads was worth it because you could then get more bang for your buck with the stratagems you needed to use to keep them alive and killing targets longer then turn 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 koooaei wrote:
You can use a 1 cp strategem to throw those 3 tankbusta bombz if you wish

Anywayz, back to boyz. It seems boyz are not mandatory for a good ork list. Even the 30 blob might not be worth it in larger games. Though it does seem to be mandatory for 1500 and below. I'd still stick to 1 squad of 30 boyz. The opponents focus on greentide too much. Means grots get more opportunities to score and win us games.


LOL, 1CP to chuck grenades from a boyz squad, and I believe its limited to 10 grenades as well right? otherwise 30 boyz = 27 D6 shots and a couple tankbusta bombs.



As for boyz, its a mixed bag, you can flood the field with cheap grots in 10man squads and hope to win on points or you can do what I do, field 3-4 full mobz of boyz, put two in reserve and deep strike them along with "Da Jump" turn 2 and have 90boyz materialize wherever you need them most. I used to team that up with my Loota bomb to kill tau gun lines.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/04 20:40:48


Post by: flandarz


The difference between 15 Lootas and 25 Lootas, both shooting that same T7, 3+ Save vehicle is like 2 Damage, buddy. So, those 2 points of damage each time they shoot is the difference between literally "must take" and "trash" to you? Ok.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/04 20:48:02


Post by: SemperMortis


 flandarz wrote:
The difference between 15 Lootas and 25 Lootas, both shooting that same T7, 3+ Save vehicle is like 2 Damage, buddy. So, those 2 points of damage each time they shoot is the difference between literally "must take" and "trash" to you? Ok.


15 lootas = 6 dmg
25 lootas = 10 dmg

difference is 4 or another nice way to put it, 40% more dmg. And more importantly, those other 10 lootas can now be protected by the same Grot shields that the 15 are being protected by so you don't have to just piss away 10 lootas hiding in cover with 5+ saves. If GW really wanted to make lootas worth 17pts they need to be upgraded to 4+ armor, or give them a 2pt reduction and give them 5+. But a 17pt model with T4, 1 wound and a 6+ save is just ridiculous.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/04 20:54:10


Post by: flandarz


Fair enough. Still seems like a huge jump from 'must take' to 'trash' for 4 damage each time they shoot.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/04 21:24:49


Post by: Vineheart01


More Stikkbombs isnt that bad if its slugga boyz since the slugga isnt gonna do much anyway so might as well trade it for D6 S3 attacks.
Though problem is they probably advanced, and you cant chuck a grenade if you advance (why? no idea, i think they should be throwable if you run but they arent)

Heck i rarely even get in range to throw that tankbusta bomb. 6" away is pretty difficult if i didnt JUST finished an assault against something, as im usually charging 8" away and make it more often than not (thanks 'Ere We Go!). I think ive actually thrown a tankbusta bomb....6 times in about 20 games? lol


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/05 01:09:06


Post by: TedNugent


 DaisyWondercow wrote:
Typically, I bring 60 boyz in my lists (I know, rookie numbers, stick with me), in two groups of 30. However, I'm wondering if there might be advantages to doing 6 groups of 10 and getting that sweet, sweet Brigade bonus. Groups of 10 mean more nobz (awesome), more tankbusta bombs (awesome), more DeffSkull rerolls, and less vulnerability to certain anti-infantry weapons like gatling canons. Downsides, morale takes a bit of a hit, you don't get the +1A, and you can't jump as easily.

With the oodles of CP, you could comfortably use Mob Up each round on surviving units. I think this "consolidating as they run down the field" could be an interesting usage of Mob Up, rather than the usual "grab a buddy before I throw strategems/powers at you". Has anyone tried this configuration? Any lessons learned?


Why not use jobs?

They get obsec via deffskulls and fit neatly into transports of any size. They don't care about Green Tide either.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/05 01:22:25


Post by: Coh Magnussen


Hey guys, I've got some questions about use of Mek Gunz. Is a (very) Mek Gun heavy 650pt Patrol list viable? If so is it rude? I'm just monkeying about in Battlescribe but a dozen Smasha's with a SSAG big mek (with Big Killa Boss), a pair of mini-Mek's and some grots to fill out the troop slots comes in at about 650.

Also, how often do you guys find a Mek Gun to be targetable because it's krew aren't hidden but it can't shoot back since LOS/range for it's shots must be measured from the Gun proper?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/05 02:17:23


Post by: flandarz


Amusingly enough, I just workshopped a 2k Freebooterz list that follows that idea.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [49 PL, 939pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 91pts]: Grot Oiler, Kombi-Rokkit, Kustom Force Field

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 4. Fists of Gork

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Heavy Support +

Mek Gunz [12 PL, 200pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Traktor Kannon
. Gun: Smasha Gun

Mek Gunz [12 PL, 200pts]
. Gun: Traktor Kannon
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun

+ Flyer +

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [10 PL, 236pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [37 PL, -1CP, 825pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Big Killa Boss, Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun, Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Heavy Support +

Gorkanaut [15 PL, 311pts]: 2x Rokkit Launcha, Skorcha, 2x Twin Big Shoota

Meka-Dread [12 PL, 278pts]: Kustom Force Field
. Big Zzappa + Rippa Klaw: Big Zzappa, Rippa Klaw

++ Total: [96 PL, -1CP, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

But, I honestly don't have as many issues with people only being able to target the Crew, but the Gun not finding LoS. The Gun is MUCH larger than the Crew. With some good placement, it's easy to hide those Crew behind the Gun itself.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/05 02:26:10


Post by: tneva82


What does it matter? Gun and crew are one model. You draw LOS to and from from either and you don't shoot just crew. The crew are literally just taking space on board.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/05 02:29:24


Post by: flandarz


Unfortunately, no. Mek Gunz specify that LOS and Range has to be drawn from the Gun, not the Krew. You could try to RAW it that, since the Gun and Krew are considered 1 model, that you can draw from the Krew, but you'd be seen as a TFG by pretty much anyone you play with.

For clarification, this is the rule:

Grot Krew: Each Mek Gun and its grot krew are treated
as a single model for all rules purposes. The krew must
remain within 1" of their Mek Gun and cannot be
targeted or attacked separately. The range and visibility
of all attacks made by a Mek Gun are measured from the
Mek Gun, not the krew.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/05 18:06:31


Post by: tneva82


Went to competive tournament. 2k, no flowchart. Organizer ruled SSAG to work more like it worked before(and I can actually see the point. Pretty much every other unit rolls random stats after target selection. Why sag suddenly is sole snowflake?). No big deal though. Such a rare case it would help especially with my build that no big deal. Oh and tournament also said screw you to the deployment zone FAQ so in the scenanario where we deploy on corners any of the 4 corners was valid choise. Oh and something that I ran into mid tournament though actually tournament pack had mention of it...NO DETACHMENT AMOUNT LIMITATION! Sure pack said no detachment restrictions but somehow I read that to mean no additional to the standard max 3. Well not that it really matters for orks here as HQ tax becomes issue. Oh and I ran out of grots

Anyway 3 battallions. Evil sun with 2x30 boyz, 10 grots, warboss, weirdboy. Death skull with 3x10 boyz, ssag, weirdboy. evil sun with badruk, weirdboy, 30 boyx, 2x30 grots, runtherd. and 4 smasha gun, 3 traktor kannon and kmk.

First up toooooons of IG. 3 tank commanders, several infantry squad, 3x3 mortars, wyvern, basilisk, crusader, 2 helverin.

Went first. Had to move both lootas and SSAG to get LOS. Opted ssag for more dakka. Alas made mistake and fired at crusader for 20 wounds but all this meant was 1 CP spent each turn to shoot at full strength. Never got killing blow. He went out of LOS to ssag and cleared mek guns fast(that relic battle cannon sucks). Once got close(already rolled damage) but 4++ saved from traktor kannon.

Turn 2 caused 9 wounds to 2 russ commander but not vs relic one(out of LOS). Turn 3 2 wounds to basilisk and then warboss went and killed it. But after his turn 3 all I had left was weirdboy. Bad moon boyz were killed twice.

Opponent thought I should have brought evil suns on t2 but deep strike screen was so far I could charge vs something big on t4 anyway and no units close to each other for trapping either.

Game 2. Vs IG battallion+deathwatch battallion+scion battallion+knight aux(this is where I found out about no detachment limit...). 3 squads of 10 deathwatch guys, jump pack guy, 3x5 scion troops, couple AM squads, 3x3 mortars, crusader.

Game of invulnerable knight. He goes first, does very little(knight fired everything vs 6 grots. Moral victory right here! Albeit that was 2 vp and 1 kill point kill so not completely pointless...but that was only unit that died(he did that precisely to kill 1 unit for maelstrom card + first strike + kill point). My turn. Very little moving. I sent bad moon boyz to charge vs 2 AM squad. Lootas cleared 5 AM infantry from 2 squads(1 shot per loota sucks. Twice...). Mek guns cleared more of them so 4 and 1 left after morale rolls. SSAG fired at crusader(only vehicle on board). First some pittiful and 2 wounds. He saves both with 4++. Then 11 S11 shots. YEY! 4 hits...drat. Well 4d3 mortals gives 6. He triggers 5++ vs mortals and...saves 3. Drat. Well 4 inv saves. 1 fail. And free reroll from warlord saves that...

What? 11 S11 shots and I get measely 3 wounds total...Mek guns cause at least 8 more despite command reroll saving yet another.

That could have gone better.

T2 scion squads(2) drop nearby mek guns. He hopes to charge 1 to get into objective. Plan fails. He kills very little except bad moons that just all die.

My turn. Da jump to lootas fail. This was big. I was planning to da jump them to see 10 deathwatch guy. So now the 2 evil sun squads had gone there(backups). Shooting. SSAG fails to do much vs the knight. 4 rounds, the thing was still going strong. Mek guns had no more LOS. Lootas vaporized scions and 2 AM squads and scion commander. Evil suns charged vs deathwatch. One was stopped in track by stratagem but luckily that's vs 1 unit only so second made it and after morale all 9 were dead. Crucially this gave me 6th kill for turn so got 5vp card completed!

T3. He blew out the wounded evil sun unit completely and charged the other unit. Crucially he didn't kill enough to green tide them.

My turn. Evil sun boyz fall back and SSAG fires again....And the damn knight is STILL STANDING! 6 rounds and the damn thing was still standing. Mek guns failed also. Lootas da jump failed as well. Sigh. Well did vaporize one deathwatch squad badly. Warboss charged them and jump pack captain trying to kill captain. 4 wounds. 3 saves on 4++...And killed in return. Sigh.

T4. Last turn. He killed evil suns for good. Not much else. My turn. Badruk da jumped to hopefully kill his deathwatch warlord but failed utterly. SSAG...With big game hunter on line...Failed to cause even wound and the knight survived 2 hits from smasha gun so 6 wound left it was standing still...

Bleargh. Well 13-7 win anyway. I got more cards. Eternal war progressive objective scoring was about dead even.

Game 3. Ad mech of doom. 3x3 some tracked guys with S6 -2 dd6 vs vehicle 2 shot weapons, 6 or 9 more of them. Several plasma bots, cawl, 3 onagers, assasin, something else. He got 1st turn. I tried to deploy back but 42"+move and no issue. After his 1st turn all mek guns, over half bad moon grots and 12 lootas dead. I just rolled for SSAG for fun getting exact 4 wounds to one. I called it quits. Wasn't going to make a dent and he would just blow me up with ease. Better use of time go home early.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/05 20:31:40


Post by: Emicrania


That is why my mek gunz have no crew, they are basically useless


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/05 20:33:42


Post by: Grimskul


 Emicrania wrote:
That is why my mek gunz have no crew, they are basically useless


Yeah, outside of tournies, I just play them without the corresponding grots now. Easier to deploy and the functional difference is so minuscule that unless you're playing with really big meta gamers that it's not a big deal. Especially when it comes to having lists with large batteries of them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/05 20:47:45


Post by: tneva82


That is actually notably difference in cramming 12+ mek guns with crew vs no crew...The foot print increases quite a lot.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/05 21:22:33


Post by: flandarz


My Mek Gunz are usually stationary for the whole match, so I don't mind setting up the Krew too. But it *does* make a difference. That's 5 square inches per Gun (more or less) you save when you don't deploy them. If you only got a few (and aren't running a Green Tide), it's probably negligible. But it can be a lot of saved space when you got 6. Basically enough space for a full Boy Mob.

That said, if you play casual, and your opponent is fine with it (any time you ever from RAW, check with your opponent beforehand), then you do you.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/05 22:02:08


Post by: Vineheart01


i mean, if you want to stop messing with krew since they do nothing and must be within 1" so not like you can conga-line them, just get a wide enough base for the gun to be in the center and all krew around it. Bam, one thing to put down.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/05 22:44:34


Post by: Grimskul


tneva82 wrote:
That is actually notably difference in cramming 12+ mek guns with crew vs no crew...The foot print increases quite a lot.


Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, that's why I mentioned tournies or any other competitive game, I would include the models. But with my friends, who are pretty casual, we just let it slide for ease of play. Especially when it comes to placement on terrain sometimes.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 01:18:50


Post by: SemperMortis


 flandarz wrote:
Fair enough. Still seems like a huge jump from 'must take' to 'trash' for 4 damage each time they shoot.


right, but now amplify that with Shooting again stratagem. That 4 damage just turned into 8. That is a HUGE difference and the main point I was making with the stratagems now being watered down.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 01:25:28


Post by: flandarz


Well, assuming you still take 25 Lootas, just divided into 2 groups (15 and 10), then even with shoot again, you're missing out on 4 damage. I'm not saying they aren't worse than they were. Just that it's probably an exaggeration to claim they're "garbage" now. I was never big on Lootas anyway, but compared to a Stompa (or really anything in the Yellow to Red tiers in the OP), they still have the ability to be... well, competitive. You just can't base your entire strategy around them anymore.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 02:57:55


Post by: tneva82


That's still cuts of over 23% firepower from pre nerf and 10 dies when opponent gets turn and you can do nothing to save them


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 03:33:35


Post by: flandarz


Yeah, I understand that. But the implication is you're dropping them from top tier to the same level as the Squigbuggy and Stompa. The "garbage" tier. Which I think is an over exaggeration as to how much they've been nerfed. At worst, I'd put them in the same tier as Flash Gitz (Blue). A little over half the cost, with a worse Save and slightly worse weapon, but longer range. Basically: I think they went from "you can base an entire winning strategy around this unit" to "bring these guys along for dealing with light vehicles and elite infantry".


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 10:37:28


Post by: Emicrania


I just remembered that I have a big tournament at the end of the month, would be legal to put the gunz on a large base instead of using the grots?
I got a gakload of stuff to paint and two exams this month already...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 10:52:48


Post by: tneva82


Depends on tournament/opponents. It solves foot print issue BUT it could still give you slight advantage so some might protest...Then again those would probably complain about my trukk+mek gun conversions as well as the shape isn't 100% identical with official.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 12:09:30


Post by: PiñaColada


I've seen some people place them (and krew) on 100mm bases and that looks really good IMO. I've thought about doing it myself, especially since then you can go a bit crazier with conversions seeing as they'd be on the same base size anyways.

Not sure how hard people will come down on you in tournaments though, anything but the top tier stuff should be fine (and maybe even those). Just check with the TO beforehand


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 12:43:37


Post by: Jidmah


I'd probably go with some sort of regiment base - who knows how they will work next time GW tries to do artillery with crew rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Added a list to the first post I stumbled across and found interesting. Apparently some fellow Warboss placed 2nd in a rather large tournament with 0 boyz, 3 SAGs, 20 MANz and just 15 lootaz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 15:53:40


Post by: Fan67


 Jidmah wrote:
I'd probably go with some sort of regiment base - who knows how they will work next time GW tries to do artillery with crew rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Added a list to the first post I stumbled across and found interesting. Apparently some fellow Warboss placed 2nd in a rather large tournament with 0 boyz, 3 SAGs, 20 MANz and just 15 lootaz.


I have yet to face the opponent, who would mention the lack of grots around the mek gunz. Mostly because their team frequently has the ork player with same approach, but also because they don’t give a damn. The tactical difference is miniscule.

But I am in the process of ripping grots from their bases and gluing them to the gunz itself. Probably going to base gunz afterwards, but it’s one of the long run projects.

Also I see that 20 mega-nobz list is 1995 points worth despite showing to cost 1999 points.
I am testing meganobz myself, but i cook them as a single squad of blood axes, who deep strikes along with 30 grots from the ambush and 30 grots from Da Jump. Lootas are far away and Tank Bustas are usualy on a suicide jump to kill vehicles.
So my opponent has 10 nobz with 60 grots shielding them and nothing else to shoot at.

The problems I face:
Meganobz miss a lot if they aren’t along the Nob Banner.
They are mostly a distraction rather then a killer unit.
Many armies can easily reap through 60 grots, especially with multi-wound attacks.

So I struggle to see how 20 meganobz instead of 20 can be a game-changer.

Any insights about his opponents and tactics?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 16:02:57


Post by: PiñaColada


I don't think there's any way to deepstrike grots. So you'd only get 30 up there from da jump


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 16:07:52


Post by: flandarz


You could put Grots into a Tellyported Transport to DS them. That's probably it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 16:11:57


Post by: Jidmah


 Fan67 wrote:
I have yet to face the opponent, who would mention the lack of grots around the mek gunz. Mostly because their team frequently has the ork player with same approach, but also because they don’t give a damn. The tactical difference is miniscule.

But I am in the process of ripping grots from their bases and gluing them to the gunz itself. Probably going to base gunz afterwards, but it’s one of the long run projects.


I was less thinking about the current rules than about the next codex/edition. Ever since 4th edition GW has changed how their artillery units work every single time they could. If you glue them to your gun today, you might find yourself unable to play our model properly under future rulesets - especially when you consider how odd the current crew rules are.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 16:19:44


Post by: tneva82


 Fan67 wrote:

I have yet to face the opponent, who would mention the lack of grots around the mek gunz. Mostly because their team frequently has the ork player with same approach, but also because they don’t give a damn. The tactical difference is miniscule.


I would. I get hindered a lot by the grot taking space. That effect is actually big if you have lots of guns. Don't cheat like that and expect to get a free pass on it.


Also I see that 20 mega-nobz list is 1995 points worth despite showing to cost 1999 points.
I am testing meganobz myself, but i cook them as a single squad of blood axes, who deep strikes along with 30 grots from the ambush and 30 grots from Da Jump. Lootas are far away and Tank Bustas are usualy on a suicide jump to kill vehicles.


Max 10 mega nobs on unit.


Many armies can easily reap through 60 grots, especially with multi-wound attacks.


Bolter, lascannon, irrelevant. Max 1 grot dies.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 17:10:49


Post by: flandarz


I personally like the Grot Krew. They can take up surprising amount of space, preventing DS to your backfield. 5 or 6 Mek Gunz, with appropriately placed Krew, can handle that. And since their Movement is so bad, they got Heavy weapons, and they have a solid Range, they do DS prevention better than pretty much anything else.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/06 21:51:59


Post by: Emicrania


I think I'll just fix 6 120mm mdf base and that's it. I have literally 0 time to do anything else. I might loan some horribly painted grots to fill in otherwise.
@Jidmah, I'd love to see the list, care to post a short copypasta of it with klanz and relics?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 08:10:13


Post by: Jidmah


 Emicrania wrote:
@Jidmah, I'd love to see the list, care to post a short copypasta of it with klanz and relics?


It's in the first post, the list by Liam Hackett at Briscon. I found it while randomly browsing reddit. Since he went second at a tournament with 71 players with a rather unique list, I thought he was worth mentioning there.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 08:15:37


Post by: tneva82


Was it pre or after mob up nerf? Or were the meganobz used as 2 units anyway?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 08:40:11


Post by: Jidmah


tneva82 wrote:
Was it pre or after mob up nerf? Or were the meganobz used as 2 units anyway?


The tournament was on the one 28th, so pre-FAQ... which is probably true for all tournaments in April.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 09:18:18


Post by: tneva82


Well don't know date tournament was held or even month. But I already got tournament with FAQ in so was wondering if it was same weekend.

Any idea were the meganobz used in one or two unit? If one then that list might not work as well anymore.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 12:06:11


Post by: Jidmah


According to reddit the idea behind MANz is to tellyported both units in for bullying units off objectives, pretty much exactly what other armies (DG/TS) are using their terminators for.
I don't see a reason why he would mob them up afterwards.

No word if that's actually what he did though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 12:22:05


Post by: G00fySmiley


tneva82 wrote:
Went to competive tournament. 2k, no flowchart. Organizer ruled SSAG to work more like it worked before(and I can actually see the point. Pretty much every other unit rolls random stats after target selection. Why sag suddenly is sole snowflake?). No big deal though. Such a rare case it would help especially with my build that no big deal. Oh and tournament also said screw you to the deployment zone FAQ so in the scenanario where we deploy on corners any of the 4 corners was valid choise. Oh and something that I ran into mid tournament though actually tournament pack had mention of it...NO DETACHMENT AMOUNT LIMITATION! Sure pack said no detachment restrictions but somehow I read that to mean no additional to the standard max 3. Well not that it really matters for orks here as HQ tax becomes issue. Oh and I ran out of grots

Anyway 3 battallions. Evil sun with 2x30 boyz, 10 grots, warboss, weirdboy. Death skull with 3x10 boyz, ssag, weirdboy. evil sun with badruk, weirdboy, 30 boyx, 2x30 grots, runtherd. and 4 smasha gun, 3 traktor kannon and kmk.

First up toooooons of IG. 3 tank commanders, several infantry squad, 3x3 mortars, wyvern, basilisk, crusader, 2 helverin.

Went first. Had to move both lootas and SSAG to get LOS. Opted ssag for more dakka. Alas made mistake and fired at crusader for 20 wounds but all this meant was 1 CP spent each turn to shoot at full strength. Never got killing blow. He went out of LOS to ssag and cleared mek guns fast(that relic battle cannon sucks). Once got close(already rolled damage) but 4++ saved from traktor kannon.

Turn 2 caused 9 wounds to 2 russ commander but not vs relic one(out of LOS). Turn 3 2 wounds to basilisk and then warboss went and killed it. But after his turn 3 all I had left was weirdboy. Bad moon boyz were killed twice.

Opponent thought I should have brought evil suns on t2 but deep strike screen was so far I could charge vs something big on t4 anyway and no units close to each other for trapping either.

Game 2. Vs IG battallion+deathwatch battallion+scion battallion+knight aux(this is where I found out about no detachment limit...). 3 squads of 10 deathwatch guys, jump pack guy, 3x5 scion troops, couple AM squads, 3x3 mortars, crusader.

Game of invulnerable knight. He goes first, does very little(knight fired everything vs 6 grots. Moral victory right here! Albeit that was 2 vp and 1 kill point kill so not completely pointless...but that was only unit that died(he did that precisely to kill 1 unit for maelstrom card + first strike + kill point). My turn. Very little moving. I sent bad moon boyz to charge vs 2 AM squad. Lootas cleared 5 AM infantry from 2 squads(1 shot per loota sucks. Twice...). Mek guns cleared more of them so 4 and 1 left after morale rolls. SSAG fired at crusader(only vehicle on board). First some pittiful and 2 wounds. He saves both with 4++. Then 11 S11 shots. YEY! 4 hits...drat. Well 4d3 mortals gives 6. He triggers 5++ vs mortals and...saves 3. Drat. Well 4 inv saves. 1 fail. And free reroll from warlord saves that...

What? 11 S11 shots and I get measely 3 wounds total...Mek guns cause at least 8 more despite command reroll saving yet another.

That could have gone better.

T2 scion squads(2) drop nearby mek guns. He hopes to charge 1 to get into objective. Plan fails. He kills very little except bad moons that just all die.

My turn. Da jump to lootas fail. This was big. I was planning to da jump them to see 10 deathwatch guy. So now the 2 evil sun squads had gone there(backups). Shooting. SSAG fails to do much vs the knight. 4 rounds, the thing was still going strong. Mek guns had no more LOS. Lootas vaporized scions and 2 AM squads and scion commander. Evil suns charged vs deathwatch. One was stopped in track by stratagem but luckily that's vs 1 unit only so second made it and after morale all 9 were dead. Crucially this gave me 6th kill for turn so got 5vp card completed!

T3. He blew out the wounded evil sun unit completely and charged the other unit. Crucially he didn't kill enough to green tide them.

My turn. Evil sun boyz fall back and SSAG fires again....And the damn knight is STILL STANDING! 6 rounds and the damn thing was still standing. Mek guns failed also. Lootas da jump failed as well. Sigh. Well did vaporize one deathwatch squad badly. Warboss charged them and jump pack captain trying to kill captain. 4 wounds. 3 saves on 4++...And killed in return. Sigh.

T4. Last turn. He killed evil suns for good. Not much else. My turn. Badruk da jumped to hopefully kill his deathwatch warlord but failed utterly. SSAG...With big game hunter on line...Failed to cause even wound and the knight survived 2 hits from smasha gun so 6 wound left it was standing still...

Bleargh. Well 13-7 win anyway. I got more cards. Eternal war progressive objective scoring was about dead even.

Game 3. Ad mech of doom. 3x3 some tracked guys with S6 -2 dd6 vs vehicle 2 shot weapons, 6 or 9 more of them. Several plasma bots, cawl, 3 onagers, assasin, something else. He got 1st turn. I tried to deploy back but 42"+move and no issue. After his 1st turn all mek guns, over half bad moon grots and 12 lootas dead. I just rolled for SSAG for fun getting exact 4 wounds to one. I called it quits. Wasn't going to make a dent and he would just blow me up with ease. Better use of time go home early.


SSAG / SAG is ruled differently because it is unique (well i guess technically shared with the bubbachucker but who actualyl takes that), it rolls the str stat before firing. you still roll the number of shots after target (which is what other armies do after choosing target) GW was listening to complaints of choosing a vehicle and then rolling a 3-4 for str.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 12:24:39


Post by: tneva82


It rolls before but that's because of this FAQ when it's hardly quaranteed it's intention. GW is well known for making these things that are legal RAW but not RAI and not know their own stages. Remember it was possible to ignore rotate ion shields by declare 2 knights as target and then shoot heavy bolter into the rotated one and volcano cannon into non rotated...

Why only SAG gets this and not others? Every other similar unit with random S also complains about same thing yet only SAG gets it? Very random change. From source that has proven that they dont' even know their own rules or phases time and time again...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 13:02:05


Post by: G00fySmiley


tneva82 wrote:
It rolls before but that's because of this FAQ when it's hardly quaranteed it's intention. GW is well known for making these things that are legal RAW but not RAI and not know their own stages. Remember it was possible to ignore rotate ion shields by declare 2 knights as target and then shoot heavy bolter into the rotated one and volcano cannon into non rotated...

Why only SAG gets this and not others? Every other similar unit with random S also complains about same thing yet only SAG gets it? Very random change. From source that has proven that they dont' even know their own rules or phases time and time again...


what other random Str weapon is there of relivance? the bubba chucka is a throwback to the goofy days of orks (i liek it and use it in open war games but would never take it to a tournament), i am trying to find another army with a randome str weapon in battlescribe but failing.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 13:29:20


Post by: Jidmah


Death Guards Foul Blightspawn is pretty much a SAG flamer. Roll 2d6 for strength, 1d6 shots, 9" and auto-hits.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 13:31:37


Post by: G00fySmiley


 Jidmah wrote:
Death Guards Foul Blightspawn is pretty much a SAG flamer. Roll 2d6 for strength, 1d6 shots, 9" and auto-hits.


interesting, did not know that, i don't knwo any DG players in my area. but would liek to see that too on the str before target. its jsu tto random other.

honestly I also witsh GW would make 1d6 shot weapons into 2d3 wepaons for more consistancy.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 13:34:40


Post by: Jidmah


 G00fySmiley wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Death Guards Foul Blightspawn is pretty much a SAG flamer. Roll 2d6 for strength, 1d6 shots, 9" and auto-hits.


interesting, did not know that, i don't knwo any DG players in my area. but would liek to see that too on the str before target. its jsu tto random other.

honestly I also witsh GW would make 1d6 shot weapons into 2d3 wepaons for more consistancy.


The 9" range makes that a non-issue since you pretty much decide what to shoot during your movement phase. It's an awesome model though, it has both one-shot a hemlock wraithfighter and failed to kill a single gretchin, much like the SSAG big killa boss.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 13:44:48


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Emicrania wrote:
That is why my mek gunz have no crew, they are basically useless


I have based my Mek gun conversions on Chimera and Trukk chassis. This makes them a bit larger then usual, but never have anyone comment (other then positive) about those. Not even at major tourneys. Next time I will field five or six at the local GT and don't expect any issue at all.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

SSAG / SAG is ruled differently because it is unique (well i guess technically shared with the bubbachucker but who actualyl takes that), it rolls the str stat before firing. you still roll the number of shots after target (which is what other armies do after choosing target) GW was listening to complaints of choosing a vehicle and then rolling a 3-4 for str.


A few pages back some peeps said it is possible to decide on target after rolling for strength due to some new wording in the FAQ. Is there any consesus about what is the right way now?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 13:57:40


Post by: G00fySmiley


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
That is why my mek gunz have no crew, they are basically useless


I have based my Mek gun conversions on Chimera and Trukk chassis. This makes them a bit larger then usual, but never have anyone comment (other then positive) about those. Not even at major tourneys. Next time I will field five or six at the local GT and don't expect any issue at all.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

SSAG / SAG is ruled differently because it is unique (well i guess technically shared with the bubbachucker but who actualyl takes that), it rolls the str stat before firing. you still roll the number of shots after target (which is what other armies do after choosing target) GW was listening to complaints of choosing a vehicle and then rolling a 3-4 for str.


A few pages back some peeps said it is possible to decide on target after rolling for strength due to some new wording in the FAQ. Is there any consesus about what is the right way now?


based on the wording you do roll for str before target, full stop. The argument against is that sayign that the specific wording is somehow being misinterpreted for intent when it cannot be read that way at all. FAQ is stating you roll for strength when choosing the model to shoot. based on order of operations you choos the model to shoot with (by faq also roll str here), then pick the target, then roll numebr of shots. Any TO or player arguing against it is choosing to nerf orks, plain and simple. I do think the other DG model that does random str shoudl also et to roll str first as well, though as stated above as a flamer you likely chose your target in the movment phase vs the logner range SAG


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 13:58:47


Post by: Emicrania


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
That is why my mek gunz have no crew, they are basically useless


I have based my Mek gun conversions on Chimera and Trukk chassis. This makes them a bit larger then usual, but never have anyone comment (other then positive) about those. Not even at major tourneys. Next time I will field five or six at the local GT and don't expect any issue at all.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

SSAG / SAG is ruled differently because it is unique (well i guess technically shared with the bubbachucker but who actualyl takes that), it rolls the str stat before firing. you still roll the number of shots after target (which is what other armies do after choosing target) GW was listening to complaints of choosing a vehicle and then rolling a 3-4 for str.


A few pages back some peeps said it is possible to decide on target after rolling for strength due to some new wording in the FAQ. Is there any consesus about what is the right way now?


Nice flex on those Gunz and kudos to you for the army

Given the shooting sequence and the faq;
1)Select the unit
2) roll for S
3) select target
keep on reading

Ps. sorry for paint quality img right there.

[Thumb - Game.jpg]


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 16:02:32


Post by: CaptainO


I used a Evil Sunz blitz brigade to great effect this weekend. I ran 2 battlewagons, one with deff rolla one bare, both ard case and a bonebreaker, two squads of 30 boys, a squad of 10, 3x10 grots, Wartrike, Warboss, two weirdboyz 3 squads of stormboyz, squad of nobs a squad of Kommandos and a nob with waaagh banner. I also run a Big Mek with KFF in a different detachment. I've Developed a trick that worked a charm that I haven't seen anywhere before.

All 3 of the vehicles contain 10 grots. These act as ablative wounds when the get blown up and can then act as human shields for the troops inside once they've disembarked. I start the the game with pretty much all the characters inside transports,the warboss and nob with waaagh banner are in the bonebreaker.

Before t1 I spend the 3CP to make the KFF 18" which covers all 3 vehicles and any ork boyz who aren't already out of LoS.

If I go second the 5++ and T8 with 16 w mean the vehicles can absord a serious amound of punishment.

When its my turn I disembark the Nob with Waaagh banner if he's not already outside and move him within 3" of the most mobile vehicle. I give the Warboss the back seat driver trait so if his vehicle is still running thats my go to.

Basically I advance the mek with 18" KFF towards the enemy and I use the "hold on Boyz" strat on the Nob with Waagh Banner to drop him up to 15+d6" forward. I then mob up the squad of 30 with the squad of 10, give them warpath and then da jump (the weirdboyz hop out of their vehicles and move so they are within 10" of 30 models) them 9" away from the enemy but within the 18" bubble of the KFF and with one model within 6" of the nob with Waaagh banner.

In the assault phase the bonebreaker assaults the frontline (thanks to my wartrike). Depending on the distance you can use the 3d6 strat which combined with the back seat driver trait gives an awesome range. I even used the 1cp strat the allow for 3d6 pick the highest for number of additional hits. This charge eats the greater good overwatch from any tau. bonebreakers and battlewagons are hitting on 2+ thanks the waaaagh banner.

I then assault in the 40 squad of boys who all have an extra attack and are hitting on 2+. I equip mine with shootas to thin out a few units I'm going to charge.

I didn't try it but I'm keen to then try the fight twice to guarantee a tri point.

It should be noted that I spend 5 CP before the game and then spanked 16 more t1 (double shooting a SSAG with extra dakka)

40 boyz and a tank t1 delivery really changes opponents battle plans.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 16:31:04


Post by: tneva82


 G00fySmiley wrote:
 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
That is why my mek gunz have no crew, they are basically useless


I have based my Mek gun conversions on Chimera and Trukk chassis. This makes them a bit larger then usual, but never have anyone comment (other then positive) about those. Not even at major tourneys. Next time I will field five or six at the local GT and don't expect any issue at all.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

SSAG / SAG is ruled differently because it is unique (well i guess technically shared with the bubbachucker but who actualyl takes that), it rolls the str stat before firing. you still roll the number of shots after target (which is what other armies do after choosing target) GW was listening to complaints of choosing a vehicle and then rolling a 3-4 for str.


A few pages back some peeps said it is possible to decide on target after rolling for strength due to some new wording in the FAQ. Is there any consesus about what is the right way now?


based on the wording you do roll for str before target, full stop. The argument against is that sayign that the specific wording is somehow being misinterpreted for intent when it cannot be read that way at all. FAQ is stating you roll for strength when choosing the model to shoot. based on order of operations you choos the model to shoot with (by faq also roll str here), then pick the target, then roll numebr of shots. Any TO or player arguing against it is choosing to nerf orks, plain and simple. I do think the other DG model that does random str shoudl also et to roll str first as well, though as stated above as a flamer you likely chose your target in the movment phase vs the logner range SAG


So you would also ignore rotate ion shield with target 2, shoot big gun vs rotateless?

Gw doesn't understand it's own phases.
Oh and gw still hasn't made rules so that assault weapons actually do something...
Oh and others what about oblits?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 17:47:11


Post by: G00fySmiley


tneva82 wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
That is why my mek gunz have no crew, they are basically useless


I have based my Mek gun conversions on Chimera and Trukk chassis. This makes them a bit larger then usual, but never have anyone comment (other then positive) about those. Not even at major tourneys. Next time I will field five or six at the local GT and don't expect any issue at all.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

SSAG / SAG is ruled differently because it is unique (well i guess technically shared with the bubbachucker but who actualyl takes that), it rolls the str stat before firing. you still roll the number of shots after target (which is what other armies do after choosing target) GW was listening to complaints of choosing a vehicle and then rolling a 3-4 for str.


A few pages back some peeps said it is possible to decide on target after rolling for strength due to some new wording in the FAQ. Is there any consesus about what is the right way now?


based on the wording you do roll for str before target, full stop. The argument against is that sayign that the specific wording is somehow being misinterpreted for intent when it cannot be read that way at all. FAQ is stating you roll for strength when choosing the model to shoot. based on order of operations you choos the model to shoot with (by faq also roll str here), then pick the target, then roll numebr of shots. Any TO or player arguing against it is choosing to nerf orks, plain and simple. I do think the other DG model that does random str shoudl also et to roll str first as well, though as stated above as a flamer you likely chose your target in the movment phase vs the logner range SAG


So you would also ignore rotate ion shield with target 2, shoot big gun vs rotateless?

Gw doesn't understand it's own phases.
Oh and gw still hasn't made rules so that assault weapons actually do something...
Oh and others what about oblits?


they literally changed the wording there, the only interpretation of the SAG wording change is to clarify that the str is rolled before the target is chosen. otherwise there was no reason to do it. this is not a case of if we read this as ___ it coudl mean ____ or ____." this is "hey change the order in which you are rolling for strength from this gun from what it is currently doing because current useage of pickign target then rolling str should be changed"


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/07 18:07:27


Post by: Fan67


CaptainO wrote:I used a Evil Sunz blitz brigade to great effect this weekend. I ran 2 battlewagons, one with deff rolla one bare, both ard case and a bonebreaker, two squads of 30 boys, a squad of 10, 3x10 grots, Wartrike, Warboss, two weirdboyz 3 squads of stormboyz, squad of nobs a squad of Kommandos and a nob with waaagh banner. I also run a Big Mek with KFF in a different detachment. I've Developed a trick that worked a charm that I haven't seen anywhere before.


The problem with all the wagons is that they are severely overcosted for what they give.
And many armies will chew through them easily even under the protection of KFF.

Couple weeks ago there were a big (over 100 players) tournament in Moscow, and wagons didn’t shine at all.
They also suffer from the terrain due to obscene footprint: unfortunate Ruins in the middle, and you spend extra turn to get into position.
I played as a Genestealer Cult vs bonecrusher list, and Ruins helped me to trap the wagons in very unfortunate positions.
Hammer and Anvil against shooty opponents also very hard to counter: Imperial Guard is very common nowadays, Castellan will remain in rosters even after the nerf, eldars are moving to the flyer-heavy lists, etc.

I don’t believe in them untill the CA2019 cuts the prices.

PiñaColada wrote:I don't think there's any way to deepstrike grots. So you'd only get 30 up there from da jump


I don’t know how the hell did I forgot about that, but i’ve cheated last two games by placing 30 grots into DS by Blood Axe’s stratagem.
With only 30 grots from Da Jump to shield them MegaNobz are even more debatable choice. Gonna try that roster from Briscon this weekend, may be will change one squad of Nobz for a Morkanaut, but not sure... Anyway, Meganobz feel better than Boyz. I think 30 boyz is a max in current meta.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/08 06:20:49


Post by: flandarz


The only issue I got with MANz is that they don't get a lot of attacks, and the Klaws make their WS worse. So assaulting the enemy lines always seems lackluster, even if they're hard to kill. Honestly, I think they might be better if you just Da Jump them to Objectives and sit them in cover. But, for the most part, I'm not really feeling MANz anymore.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/08 08:52:18


Post by: Jidmah


 flandarz wrote:
The only issue I got with MANz is that they don't get a lot of attacks, and the Klaws make their WS worse. So assaulting the enemy lines always seems lackluster, even if they're hard to kill. Honestly, I think they might be better if you just Da Jump them to Objectives and sit them in cover. But, for the most part, I'm not really feeling MANz anymore.


That's pretty much what people are doing though. Terminators/MANz teleport onto objectives, clear out whatever is holding it and them sit on them until the end of the game because the things which could remove efficiently them are busy elsewhere. Not flashy, but tends to win games.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/08 08:56:53


Post by: tneva82


Here rarely holding 1 objective would win though. Maybe you have secure or defend but after that sit there hoping to score point or two in the end while opponent is busy raking vp's elsewhere more than that.

Maybe works in some missions but at least here you need to be able to control varying objectives/score other tasks and preferably able to hold objectives in the end as well. Expensive unit sitting in one place all game isn't doing that.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/08 11:18:19


Post by: CaptainO


 Fan67 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:I used a Evil Sunz blitz brigade to great effect this weekend. I ran 2 battlewagons, one with deff rolla one bare, both ard case and a bonebreaker, two squads of 30 boys, a squad of 10, 3x10 grots, Wartrike, Warboss, two weirdboyz 3 squads of stormboyz, squad of nobs a squad of Kommandos and a nob with waaagh banner. I also run a Big Mek with KFF in a different detachment. I've Developed a trick that worked a charm that I haven't seen anywhere before.


The problem with all the wagons is that they are severely overcosted for what they give.
And many armies will chew through them easily even under the protection of KFF.

Couple weeks ago there were a big (over 100 players) tournament in Moscow, and wagons didn’t shine at all.
They also suffer from the terrain due to obscene footprint: unfortunate Ruins in the middle, and you spend extra turn to get into position.
I played as a Genestealer Cult vs bonecrusher list, and Ruins helped me to trap the wagons in very unfortunate positions.
Hammer and Anvil against shooty opponents also very hard to counter: Imperial Guard is very common nowadays, Castellan will remain in rosters even after the nerf, eldars are moving to the flyer-heavy lists, etc.

I don’t believe in them untill the CA2019 cuts the prices.



Cheers for your feedback.

No doubt my list would improve if the points dropped but it seems to be working at the moment.

Terrain can totally cause some issues for my attack but ITC LoS blocking stuff is my friend when running orks so I won't complain. If I can hide the battlewagons then all the better.

Youre right that a lot of armies will have sufficient firepower to destroy 1 battelwagon, maybe even two (I run a castellan in my soup list and its going nowhere) in turn 1 but the army is designed to turtle up T1 and be able to hit hard even if they go second. All I need is one battlewagon left with a reasonable number of wounds so that it can eat the overwatch for my 40 da jumped warpath boyz (who will be hitting on 2+ thanks to the waaagh banner Nob who hitched a ride on the same battlewagon. The Warboss with the back seat driver trait just jumps into the healthy battlewagon to give it ere we go and +1 to movement in the event his original transport is destroyed.

The battlewagons will be hitting on 2+ if they make the charge too thanks to the waaagh banner nob they just dropped off too.

I'm running a evil sunz blitz brigade, a deathskullz dread waagh spearhead and a mixed battalion for 21CP before detachments and extra relics. Thanks to the battlewagons I can get my drops down to 18. Guard or Tau gunlines (my most common opponents) often easily surpass this number of drops so I've been getting +1 to go first. As I said the army can take a pasting turn 1.

I'm taking on a tournament level tau list tomorrow and will report any success and failures.

I'm tempted to change the bonebreaker for a normal ard top battlewagon just to keep the points down. All I need is for the vehicle to make combat. D6 extra attacks are of debatable benefit.

My mobbed up squad of 40 boyz are currently all shoota boyz to give me some semblance of ranged firepower after they're da jumped but seeing as the squad will be hitting on 2+ in cc I'm tempted to change to choppas. Whar are peoples thoughts? I'm trying to calculate how well 40 boyz will fare against a tau greater good gunline (if they can avail of the 5+ + from the kff) in the event the battlewagon isn't their to eat the overwatch. My opponent is known to castellan up with effectively his entire brigade. Surely some of the boyz will survive....


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/08 13:51:27


Post by: Emicrania


Spoiler:
CaptainO wrote:
 Fan67 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:I used a Evil Sunz blitz brigade to great effect this weekend. I ran 2 battlewagons, one with deff rolla one bare, both ard case and a bonebreaker, two squads of 30 boys, a squad of 10, 3x10 grots, Wartrike, Warboss, two weirdboyz 3 squads of stormboyz, squad of nobs a squad of Kommandos and a nob with waaagh banner. I also run a Big Mek with KFF in a different detachment. I've Developed a trick that worked a charm that I haven't seen anywhere before.


The problem with all the wagons is that they are severely overcosted for what they give.
And many armies will chew through them easily even under the protection of KFF.

Couple weeks ago there were a big (over 100 players) tournament in Moscow, and wagons didn’t shine at all.
They also suffer from the terrain due to obscene footprint: unfortunate Ruins in the middle, and you spend extra turn to get into position.
I played as a Genestealer Cult vs bonecrusher list, and Ruins helped me to trap the wagons in very unfortunate positions.
Hammer and Anvil against shooty opponents also very hard to counter: Imperial Guard is very common nowadays, Castellan will remain in rosters even after the nerf, eldars are moving to the flyer-heavy lists, etc.

I don’t believe in them untill the CA2019 cuts the prices.





Cheers for your feedback.

No doubt my list would improve if the points dropped but it seems to be working at the moment.

Terrain can totally cause some issues for my attack but ITC LoS blocking stuff is my friend when running orks so I won't complain. If I can hide the battlewagons then all the better.

Youre right that a lot of armies will have sufficient firepower to destroy 1 battelwagon, maybe even two (I run a castellan in my soup list and its going nowhere) in turn 1 but the army is designed to turtle up T1 and be able to hit hard even if they go second. All I need is one battlewagon left with a reasonable number of wounds so that it can eat the overwatch for my 40 da jumped warpath boyz (who will be hitting on 2+ thanks to the waaagh banner Nob who hitched a ride on the same battlewagon. The Warboss with the back seat driver trait just jumps into the healthy battlewagon to give it ere we go and +1 to movement in the event his original transport is destroyed.

The battlewagons will be hitting on 2+ if they make the charge too thanks to the waaagh banner nob they just dropped off too.

I'm running a evil sunz blitz brigade, a deathskullz dread waagh spearhead and a mixed battalion for 21CP before detachments and extra relics. Thanks to the battlewagons I can get my drops down to 18. Guard or Tau gunlines (my most common opponents) often easily surpass this number of drops so I've been getting +1 to go first. As I said the army can take a pasting turn 1.

I'm taking on a tournament level tau list tomorrow and will report any success and failures.

I'm tempted to change the bonebreaker for a normal ard top battlewagon just to keep the points down. All I need is for the vehicle to make combat. D6 extra attacks are of debatable benefit.

My mobbed up squad of 40 boyz are currently all shoota boyz to give me some semblance of ranged firepower after they're da jumped but seeing as the squad will be hitting on 2+ in cc I'm tempted to change to choppas. Whar are peoples thoughts? I'm trying to calculate how well 40 boyz will fare against a tau greater good gunline (if they can avail of the 5+ + from the kff) in the event the battlewagon isn't their to eat the overwatch. My opponent is known to castellan up with effectively his entire brigade. Surely some of the boyz will survive....


Care to post a more detailed list? I would like to vet it .
I´m having a blast with my freeboterz list, but ya never know


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 10:07:43


Post by: CaptainO


 Emicrania wrote:
Spoiler:
CaptainO wrote:
 Fan67 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:I used a Evil Sunz blitz brigade to great effect this weekend. I ran 2 battlewagons, one with deff rolla one bare, both ard case and a bonebreaker, two squads of 30 boys, a squad of 10, 3x10 grots, Wartrike, Warboss, two weirdboyz 3 squads of stormboyz, squad of nobs a squad of Kommandos and a nob with waaagh banner. I also run a Big Mek with KFF in a different detachment. I've Developed a trick that worked a charm that I haven't seen anywhere before.


The problem with all the wagons is that they are severely overcosted for what they give.
And many armies will chew through them easily even under the protection of KFF.

Couple weeks ago there were a big (over 100 players) tournament in Moscow, and wagons didn’t shine at all.
They also suffer from the terrain due to obscene footprint: unfortunate Ruins in the middle, and you spend extra turn to get into position.
I played as a Genestealer Cult vs bonecrusher list, and Ruins helped me to trap the wagons in very unfortunate positions.
Hammer and Anvil against shooty opponents also very hard to counter: Imperial Guard is very common nowadays, Castellan will remain in rosters even after the nerf, eldars are moving to the flyer-heavy lists, etc.

I don’t believe in them untill the CA2019 cuts the prices.





Cheers for your feedback.

No doubt my list would improve if the points dropped but it seems to be working at the moment.

Terrain can totally cause some issues for my attack but ITC LoS blocking stuff is my friend when running orks so I won't complain. If I can hide the battlewagons then all the better.

Youre right that a lot of armies will have sufficient firepower to destroy 1 battelwagon, maybe even two (I run a castellan in my soup list and its going nowhere) in turn 1 but the army is designed to turtle up T1 and be able to hit hard even if they go second. All I need is one battlewagon left with a reasonable number of wounds so that it can eat the overwatch for my 40 da jumped warpath boyz (who will be hitting on 2+ thanks to the waaagh banner Nob who hitched a ride on the same battlewagon. The Warboss with the back seat driver trait just jumps into the healthy battlewagon to give it ere we go and +1 to movement in the event his original transport is destroyed.

The battlewagons will be hitting on 2+ if they make the charge too thanks to the waaagh banner nob they just dropped off too.

I'm running a evil sunz blitz brigade, a deathskullz dread waagh spearhead and a mixed battalion for 21CP before detachments and extra relics. Thanks to the battlewagons I can get my drops down to 18. Guard or Tau gunlines (my most common opponents) often easily surpass this number of drops so I've been getting +1 to go first. As I said the army can take a pasting turn 1.

I'm taking on a tournament level tau list tomorrow and will report any success and failures.

I'm tempted to change the bonebreaker for a normal ard top battlewagon just to keep the points down. All I need is for the vehicle to make combat. D6 extra attacks are of debatable benefit.

My mobbed up squad of 40 boyz are currently all shoota boyz to give me some semblance of ranged firepower after they're da jumped but seeing as the squad will be hitting on 2+ in cc I'm tempted to change to choppas. Whar are peoples thoughts? I'm trying to calculate how well 40 boyz will fare against a tau greater good gunline (if they can avail of the 5+ + from the kff) in the event the battlewagon isn't their to eat the overwatch. My opponent is known to castellan up with effectively his entire brigade. Surely some of the boyz will survive....


Care to post a more detailed list? I would like to vet it .
I´m having a blast with my freeboterz list, but ya never know


Sure thing. I'm keen to hear your thoughts. My list couldn't be any different from a shooting based freeboterz list. Its cool the codex allows that.

Spoiler:
++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Orks) [88 PL, 1591pts, -3CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [-2CP] +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins [-1CP]

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Blitz Brigade [-1CP]

+ HQ [13 PL, 260pts, -1CP] +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]

Warboss [4 PL, 78pts, -1CP]: Back-seat Driver, Power Klaw [13pts], Rezmekka's Redder Armour, Shoota (Index), Stratagem: Field Commander [-1CP]

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath

+ Troops [29 PL, 545pts] +

Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [203pts]

Boyz [11 PL, 175pts]
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Slugga
. 5x Ork Boy W/ Shoota [35pts]
. 19x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [133pts]

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Choppa
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [63pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

+ Elites [13 PL, 227pts] +

Kommandos [2 PL, 53pts]
. Boss Nob [21pts]: Power Klaw [13pts]
. 2x Kommando [16pts]
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Kustom Shoota [2pts]

Nobz [7 PL, 97pts]
. Boss Nob [29pts]: Choppa, Killsaw [15pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]

+ Fast Attack [9 PL, 161pts] +

Stormboyz [3 PL, 45pts]
. Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Choppa
. 4x Stormboy [36pts]

Stormboyz [3 PL, 58pts]
. Boss Nob [22pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [13pts]
. 4x Stormboy [36pts]

Stormboyz [3 PL, 58pts]
. Boss Nob [22pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [13pts]
. 4x Stormboy [36pts]

+ Heavy Support [24 PL, 398pts] +

Battlewagon [8 PL, 120pts]: 'ard Case

Battlewagon [8 PL, 139pts]: 'ard Case, Deff Rolla [19pts]

Battlewagon [8 PL, 139pts]: 'ard Case, Deff Rolla [19pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [11 PL, 231pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Goffs

+ HQ [8 PL, 141pts] +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 79pts]: Choppa, Grot Oiler [4pts], Kustom Force Field [20pts]

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump

+ Troops [3 PL, 90pts] +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Orks) [10 PL, 177pts, -1CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [-1CP] +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh! [-1CP]

+ HQ [4 PL, 84pts] +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Big Killa Boss, Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler [4pts], Shokk Attack Gun [25pts], Warlord

+ Heavy Support [6 PL, 93pts] +

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]

++ Total: [109 PL, -4CP, 1999pts] ++


I've changed the bonebreaker for a deff rolla battlewagon as the cost of 20 points and 8 transport spaces just didnt make sense for only d6 attacks.

On a completely different note has anyone tried blood axe bikers or stompa. The blood axe strat allows you to deep strike the stompa for 2CP (not to mention the 2+ save when 18" away) and the counts in cover + shoot after falling back seems ideal for bikers. I doubt theyre competitive but it could be interesting. You could only start a mek with kff in the stompa while its in deep strike as that combo takes you to just under half your points.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 10:27:43


Post by: Waaaghbert


CaptainO wrote:


On a completely different note has anyone tried blood axe bikers or stompa. The blood axe strat allows you to deep strike the stompa for 2CP (not to mention the 2+ save when 18" away) and the counts in cover + shoot after falling back seems ideal for bikers. I doubt theyre competitive but it could be interesting. You could only start a mek with kff in the stompa while its in deep strike as that combo takes you to just under half your points.


Doesn't the Bloodaxe Strat only work on Infantry units? I don't have my Dex at hands


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 10:32:38


Post by: tneva82


Blood axe stratagem is 1CP and works only on PL9 or less units. Pretty sure stompa goes over that ;-) And regular DS caps out at 20PL. The vigilus formation had DS for stompa but of course requires 3 super heavies. Good luck fitting in 2k.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 11:03:45


Post by: Jidmah


1 CP infantry only, outside of 3-4 MANz, characters or 20 boyz it's completely useless, and even those applications aren't great.

IMO, the only reason to play blood axes is to have a grot battalion with CP regeneration trait on a SAG.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 12:00:58


Post by: G00fySmiley


CaptainO wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
Spoiler:
CaptainO wrote:
 Fan67 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:I used a Evil Sunz blitz brigade to great effect this weekend. I ran 2 battlewagons, one with deff rolla one bare, both ard case and a bonebreaker, two squads of 30 boys, a squad of 10, 3x10 grots, Wartrike, Warboss, two weirdboyz 3 squads of stormboyz, squad of nobs a squad of Kommandos and a nob with waaagh banner. I also run a Big Mek with KFF in a different detachment. I've Developed a trick that worked a charm that I haven't seen anywhere before.


The problem with all the wagons is that they are severely overcosted for what they give.
And many armies will chew through them easily even under the protection of KFF.

Couple weeks ago there were a big (over 100 players) tournament in Moscow, and wagons didn’t shine at all.
They also suffer from the terrain due to obscene footprint: unfortunate Ruins in the middle, and you spend extra turn to get into position.
I played as a Genestealer Cult vs bonecrusher list, and Ruins helped me to trap the wagons in very unfortunate positions.
Hammer and Anvil against shooty opponents also very hard to counter: Imperial Guard is very common nowadays, Castellan will remain in rosters even after the nerf, eldars are moving to the flyer-heavy lists, etc.

I don’t believe in them untill the CA2019 cuts the prices.





Cheers for your feedback.

No doubt my list would improve if the points dropped but it seems to be working at the moment.

Terrain can totally cause some issues for my attack but ITC LoS blocking stuff is my friend when running orks so I won't complain. If I can hide the battlewagons then all the better.

Youre right that a lot of armies will have sufficient firepower to destroy 1 battelwagon, maybe even two (I run a castellan in my soup list and its going nowhere) in turn 1 but the army is designed to turtle up T1 and be able to hit hard even if they go second. All I need is one battlewagon left with a reasonable number of wounds so that it can eat the overwatch for my 40 da jumped warpath boyz (who will be hitting on 2+ thanks to the waaagh banner Nob who hitched a ride on the same battlewagon. The Warboss with the back seat driver trait just jumps into the healthy battlewagon to give it ere we go and +1 to movement in the event his original transport is destroyed.

The battlewagons will be hitting on 2+ if they make the charge too thanks to the waaagh banner nob they just dropped off too.

I'm running a evil sunz blitz brigade, a deathskullz dread waagh spearhead and a mixed battalion for 21CP before detachments and extra relics. Thanks to the battlewagons I can get my drops down to 18. Guard or Tau gunlines (my most common opponents) often easily surpass this number of drops so I've been getting +1 to go first. As I said the army can take a pasting turn 1.

I'm taking on a tournament level tau list tomorrow and will report any success and failures.

I'm tempted to change the bonebreaker for a normal ard top battlewagon just to keep the points down. All I need is for the vehicle to make combat. D6 extra attacks are of debatable benefit.

My mobbed up squad of 40 boyz are currently all shoota boyz to give me some semblance of ranged firepower after they're da jumped but seeing as the squad will be hitting on 2+ in cc I'm tempted to change to choppas. Whar are peoples thoughts? I'm trying to calculate how well 40 boyz will fare against a tau greater good gunline (if they can avail of the 5+ + from the kff) in the event the battlewagon isn't their to eat the overwatch. My opponent is known to castellan up with effectively his entire brigade. Surely some of the boyz will survive....


Care to post a more detailed list? I would like to vet it .
I´m having a blast with my freeboterz list, but ya never know


Sure thing. I'm keen to hear your thoughts. My list couldn't be any different from a shooting based freeboterz list. Its cool the codex allows that.

Spoiler:
++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Orks) [88 PL, 1591pts, -3CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [-2CP] +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins [-1CP]

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Blitz Brigade [-1CP]

+ HQ [13 PL, 260pts, -1CP] +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]

Warboss [4 PL, 78pts, -1CP]: Back-seat Driver, Power Klaw [13pts], Rezmekka's Redder Armour, Shoota (Index), Stratagem: Field Commander [-1CP]

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath

+ Troops [29 PL, 545pts] +

Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [203pts]

Boyz [11 PL, 175pts]
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Slugga
. 5x Ork Boy W/ Shoota [35pts]
. 19x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [133pts]

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Choppa
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [63pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

+ Elites [13 PL, 227pts] +

Kommandos [2 PL, 53pts]
. Boss Nob [21pts]: Power Klaw [13pts]
. 2x Kommando [16pts]
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Kustom Shoota [2pts]

Nobz [7 PL, 97pts]
. Boss Nob [29pts]: Choppa, Killsaw [15pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]

+ Fast Attack [9 PL, 161pts] +

Stormboyz [3 PL, 45pts]
. Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Choppa
. 4x Stormboy [36pts]

Stormboyz [3 PL, 58pts]
. Boss Nob [22pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [13pts]
. 4x Stormboy [36pts]

Stormboyz [3 PL, 58pts]
. Boss Nob [22pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [13pts]
. 4x Stormboy [36pts]

+ Heavy Support [24 PL, 398pts] +

Battlewagon [8 PL, 120pts]: 'ard Case

Battlewagon [8 PL, 139pts]: 'ard Case, Deff Rolla [19pts]

Battlewagon [8 PL, 139pts]: 'ard Case, Deff Rolla [19pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [11 PL, 231pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Goffs

+ HQ [8 PL, 141pts] +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 79pts]: Choppa, Grot Oiler [4pts], Kustom Force Field [20pts]

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump

+ Troops [3 PL, 90pts] +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Orks) [10 PL, 177pts, -1CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [-1CP] +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh! [-1CP]

+ HQ [4 PL, 84pts] +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Big Killa Boss, Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler [4pts], Shokk Attack Gun [25pts], Warlord

+ Heavy Support [6 PL, 93pts] +

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]

++ Total: [109 PL, -4CP, 1999pts] ++


I've changed the bonebreaker for a deff rolla battlewagon as the cost of 20 points and 8 transport spaces just didnt make sense for only d6 attacks.

On a completely different note has anyone tried blood axe bikers or stompa. The blood axe strat allows you to deep strike the stompa for 2CP (not to mention the 2+ save when 18" away) and the counts in cover + shoot after falling back seems ideal for bikers. I doubt theyre competitive but it could be interesting. You could only start a mek with kff in the stompa while its in deep strike as that combo takes you to just under half your points.


even deep striking the stompa is useless, at its cost it is 1/2 of a 2k points list and may as well only have 30 woulds as the last 10 have it crippled beyond useablity,. the lack of an inv save means you deep strike it in and everythign on the table opens fire. even if you get a charge off 8th allowing units to fall back with no penalty and then still open fire means mayeb you got lucky and killed one model/unit... but because of the stompa's point cost it will always have killed somethign cheape rthan it. also with properly doen bubble wrap congrats you probably killed a unit of guardsmen or zombies before dying.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 13:30:40


Post by: CaptainO


My bad. Just read the dex there. Somehow missed the INFANTRY part of sneaky gits. Thought for a moment blood axes and stompas became usable.

A Blood axe speed freak outrider detachment may be useful (i'm not saying competitive just useful). Run it with a wartrike. 3+ Armour save and the ability to fall back and shoot combined with the speed freak detachments mobility. The battlewagon list I'm running currently is serving me well (game tonight against an unbeaten Tau list will be interesting) I just have a load of converted cyboars/warbikes that won't be seeing the light of day until the next chapter approved.

Thoughts on whether the 40 boyz mobbed up squad with warpath, that I'll be da jumping should be armed with shootas or sluggas and choppas. My list is on this page. Its fairly light on shooting currently but my intent is to use the last of my 21CP to use what remains of the 40 man squad to fight a second time. The unit will be buffed by a waaagh banner nob so hitting on 2+ in cc. Also I use the super powered KFF strat to try and give the 40 boyz a 5++ to overwatch.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 13:31:54


Post by: Jidmah


CaptainO wrote:
On a completely different note has anyone tried blood axe bikers or stompa. The blood axe strat allows you to deep strike the stompa for 2CP (not to mention the 2+ save when 18" away) and the counts in cover + shoot after falling back seems ideal for bikers. I doubt theyre competitive but it could be interesting. You could only start a mek with kff in the stompa while its in deep strike as that combo takes you to just under half your points.


The only way to deep strike the stompa is to get a supreme command detachment with a stompa and get the stompa specialist detachment. While you're at it, add the relic for 5++ in combat and shooting and make it Mork's one for re-rolling ones to wound, with probably freebootas or bad moons kulture so it actually has the chance to kill something. That's the best stompa you are going to get, but it still sucks.

As for blood axe bikers... might as well have no culture at all. You want to move forward and use their guns, so you are always within 18" of whatever is shooting you, same is true for many ork units. Meanwhile, falling back is only attractive when you are still in combat during your movement phase. This only happens if you charge something, that something does not fall back or die to your attacks over the course of two combat phases, or if something charged you, failed to kill you and you want to get away from it. In short: never.

I have played a dozen games with blood axes, it's a completely useless culture outside of the ability to trade a relic for a warlord trait.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CaptainO wrote:
A Blood axe speed freak outrider detachment may be useful (i'm not saying competitive just useful). Run it with a wartrike. 3+ Armour save and the ability to fall back and shoot combined with the speed freak detachments mobility. The battlewagon list I'm running currently is serving me well (game tonight against an unbeaten Tau list will be interesting) I just have a load of converted cyboars/warbikes that won't be seeing the light of day until the next chapter approved.

The wartrike will have 4+ armor as soon as it starts moving. When in combat for two turns, it will have either killed whatever it was charging or be dead. You are off way better with deff skulls, snakebites or evil suns for your speed freaks.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 14:18:00


Post by: tneva82


Not fan of 40 mob myself. Attacks is rarely problem. Losing option for endless tide hurts. Fresh 30 is more dangerous than remnants of 40 and ability to redeploy elsewhere can win games


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 14:32:56


Post by: Emicrania


Spoiler:
CaptainO wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
[spoiler]
CaptainO wrote:
 Fan67 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:I used a Evil Sunz blitz brigade to great effect this weekend. I ran 2 battlewagons, one with deff rolla one bare, both ard case and a bonebreaker, two squads of 30 boys, a squad of 10, 3x10 grots, Wartrike, Warboss, two weirdboyz 3 squads of stormboyz, squad of nobs a squad of Kommandos and a nob with waaagh banner. I also run a Big Mek with KFF in a different detachment. I've Developed a trick that worked a charm that I haven't seen anywhere before.


The problem with all the wagons is that they are severely overcosted for what they give.
And many armies will chew through them easily even under the protection of KFF.

Couple weeks ago there were a big (over 100 players) tournament in Moscow, and wagons didn’t shine at all.
They also suffer from the terrain due to obscene footprint: unfortunate Ruins in the middle, and you spend extra turn to get into position.
I played as a Genestealer Cult vs bonecrusher list, and Ruins helped me to trap the wagons in very unfortunate positions.
Hammer and Anvil against shooty opponents also very hard to counter: Imperial Guard is very common nowadays, Castellan will remain in rosters even after the nerf, eldars are moving to the flyer-heavy lists, etc.

I don’t believe in them untill the CA2019 cuts the prices.





Cheers for your feedback.

No doubt my list would improve if the points dropped but it seems to be working at the moment.

Terrain can totally cause some issues for my attack but ITC LoS blocking stuff is my friend when running orks so I won't complain. If I can hide the battlewagons then all the better.

Youre right that a lot of armies will have sufficient firepower to destroy 1 battelwagon, maybe even two (I run a castellan in my soup list and its going nowhere) in turn 1 but the army is designed to turtle up T1 and be able to hit hard even if they go second. All I need is one battlewagon left with a reasonable number of wounds so that it can eat the overwatch for my 40 da jumped warpath boyz (who will be hitting on 2+ thanks to the waaagh banner Nob who hitched a ride on the same battlewagon. The Warboss with the back seat driver trait just jumps into the healthy battlewagon to give it ere we go and +1 to movement in the event his original transport is destroyed.

The battlewagons will be hitting on 2+ if they make the charge too thanks to the waaagh banner nob they just dropped off too.

I'm running a evil sunz blitz brigade, a deathskullz dread waagh spearhead and a mixed battalion for 21CP before detachments and extra relics. Thanks to the battlewagons I can get my drops down to 18. Guard or Tau gunlines (my most common opponents) often easily surpass this number of drops so I've been getting +1 to go first. As I said the army can take a pasting turn 1.

I'm taking on a tournament level tau list tomorrow and will report any success and failures.

I'm tempted to change the bonebreaker for a normal ard top battlewagon just to keep the points down. All I need is for the vehicle to make combat. D6 extra attacks are of debatable benefit.

My mobbed up squad of 40 boyz are currently all shoota boyz to give me some semblance of ranged firepower after they're da jumped but seeing as the squad will be hitting on 2+ in cc I'm tempted to change to choppas. Whar are peoples thoughts? I'm trying to calculate how well 40 boyz will fare against a tau greater good gunline (if they can avail of the 5+ + from the kff) in the event the battlewagon isn't their to eat the overwatch. My opponent is known to castellan up with effectively his entire brigade. Surely some of the boyz will survive....


Care to post a more detailed list? I would like to vet it .
I´m having a blast with my freeboterz list, but ya never know


Sure thing. I'm keen to hear your thoughts. My list couldn't be any different from a shooting based freeboterz list. Its cool the codex allows that.

Spoiler:
++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Orks) [88 PL, 1591pts, -3CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [-2CP] +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins [-1CP]

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Blitz Brigade [-1CP]

+ HQ [13 PL, 260pts, -1CP] +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]

Warboss [4 PL, 78pts, -1CP]: Back-seat Driver, Power Klaw [13pts], Rezmekka's Redder Armour, Shoota (Index), Stratagem: Field Commander [-1CP]

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath

+ Troops [29 PL, 545pts] +

Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [203pts]

Boyz [11 PL, 175pts]
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Slugga
. 5x Ork Boy W/ Shoota [35pts]
. 19x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [133pts]

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Choppa
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [63pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

+ Elites [13 PL, 227pts] +

Kommandos [2 PL, 53pts]
. Boss Nob [21pts]: Power Klaw [13pts]
. 2x Kommando [16pts]
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Kustom Shoota [2pts]

Nobz [7 PL, 97pts]
. Boss Nob [29pts]: Choppa, Killsaw [15pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]

+ Fast Attack [9 PL, 161pts] +

Stormboyz [3 PL, 45pts]
. Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Choppa
. 4x Stormboy [36pts]

Stormboyz [3 PL, 58pts]
. Boss Nob [22pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [13pts]
. 4x Stormboy [36pts]

Stormboyz [3 PL, 58pts]
. Boss Nob [22pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [13pts]
. 4x Stormboy [36pts]

+ Heavy Support [24 PL, 398pts] +

Battlewagon [8 PL, 120pts]: 'ard Case

Battlewagon [8 PL, 139pts]: 'ard Case, Deff Rolla [19pts]

Battlewagon [8 PL, 139pts]: 'ard Case, Deff Rolla [19pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [11 PL, 231pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Goffs

+ HQ [8 PL, 141pts] +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 79pts]: Choppa, Grot Oiler [4pts], Kustom Force Field [20pts]

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump

+ Troops [3 PL, 90pts] +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin [30pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Orks) [10 PL, 177pts, -1CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [-1CP] +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh! [-1CP]

+ HQ [4 PL, 84pts] +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Big Killa Boss, Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler [4pts], Shokk Attack Gun [25pts], Warlord

+ Heavy Support [6 PL, 93pts] +

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]

++ Total: [109 PL, -4CP, 1999pts] ++


I've changed the bonebreaker for a deff rolla battlewagon as the cost of 20 points and 8 transport spaces just didnt make sense for only d6 attacks.

On a completely different note has anyone tried blood axe bikers or stompa. The blood axe strat allows you to deep strike the stompa for 2CP (not to mention the 2+ save when 18" away) and the counts in cover + shoot after falling back seems ideal for bikers. I doubt theyre competitive but it could be interesting. You could only start a mek with kff in the stompa while its in deep strike as that combo takes you to just under half your points.
[/spoiler]


Is definitely the opposite of what I play
I wonder, how do you deal with the chaff? Shoota boyz? Doesn't that works against you if you wanna attack juicy targets on the backline?
You definitely have a strong T2 thanks also to the new FAQs helping the stormboyz. But I feel that if you would go second, you wouldn't survive 2 rounds of shooting and all your nobz and warboss would be sorely exposed to enemy fire. 5++ is good but is not a game changer.
What does back seat driver provide? I think I missed that trait
For information I play
At 1750
Dakkajet 6 supashoota * 2
Wazbomb KFF 1 supashoota
Warboss on bike relic klaw
2 weirboy
SSAG
Mek on bike KFF
10*2 grots
30 shoota boyz
1 gorkanaut
3 Smashaguns
3 Traktor kannon
5 stormboyz
At 2000
Take off stormboyz
Add 1 gorkanaut

All freebooterz


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 15:23:28


Post by: CaptainO


So far I've just embraced the chaff with my da jumped boyz and then fought a second time ideally tri-pointing a model the second time I fight in order to prevent them being shot in the opponents turn.
My SSAG and smasha gunz are the only range really. Backline targets can be hit by the SSAG big killa Meks shooting which get +1 to wound naturally or an additional +1 to wound if I use the Death skulls strat.

I deep strike or mount 70% of my army not only to keep my drops down to 17 but also to keep the army safe.

Battlewagon 1: Warboss (with backseat driver) + Waaagh banner nob + Kommandos + 10 grots

Battlewagon 2: Weirdboyz x 2 + Nobz + 10 grots

Battlewagon 3: 10 grots + 10 boyz

3 x Stormboyz are in deep strike.

The 18" 5++ is to give the battlewagons some staying power. I fully expect at least 1 battlewagon to die if I don't go first (probably 2) but the grots within will take the casualties as a result of 1s and then be set up in such away that the characters that came out of the destroyed battle wagon aren't the closest model. If needed they can even be used as a grot shield if someone is trying to snipe the now semi exposed characters.

Both meks (who aren't mounted as 1 provides kff and the other is not the same clan) are equiped with grot rigger predominantly to add some protection from snipers.

Back seat driver adds +1 to movement of the vehicle the character is in and also (and more importantly) gives the vehicle ere we go. If the warbosses initial vehicle is destroyed he can just hop in another t2. Any (top bracket) battlewagon hes in will have 12 + 1 (for evil sunz) + 1 (for back seat driver) + d6+1 (for advance) + 3d6 rerollable (back seat driver + ramming speed) provided its within 6 of my wartrike.

What helped the stormboyz in the new faq btw? The main thing that improved orks was the ability to warpath a squad before sending them into combat.

Do you da jump the shoota boyz? I assume you take da jump, is warpath your other psychic power?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 17:00:21


Post by: Chaos Legionnaire


Just a very quick question.
I have seen it mentioned multiple times in this thread as well as other places.
People seem to believe that there is an immenent points drop coming for orks.
Is there a date for this or is it simply an assumption?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 17:10:36


Post by: G00fySmiley


 Chaos Legionnaire wrote:
Just a very quick question.
I have seen it mentioned multiple times in this thread as well as other places.
People seem to believe that there is an immenent points drop coming for orks.
Is there a date for this or is it simply an assumption?


pure assumption

that would have been in the FAQ if it were to be addressed. the nexty points drop possibility will be in chapter approved where they do most of the points changes for balance but that will not be until Q4 2019 so at least 3 more months.

as for why orks would get points down and what units. the FAQ killed loota bomb and orks are not really performing that great in tournaments, they are kind of a gate keeper army. people prepare to see them and have to be abel to beat us to get to the top tables, but our army does not actually make it to the top tables often in larger events.

there are a lot of units that need points decreases to be usable but that does not mean GW will actually give them drops. nobody on the rules team seems to play orks and it shows. its a chaos, eldar and imperium edition as it has been for the last 3 editions (special mention to tau somebody msut have taken them up as they are now getting more podium placements these days and might be the new top dog but that remains to be seen)



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 17:35:33


Post by: koooaei


 Jidmah wrote:
1 CP infantry only, outside of 3-4 MANz, characters or 20 boyz it's completely useless, and even those applications aren't great.

IMO, the only reason to play blood axes is to have a grot battalion with CP regeneration trait on a SAG.


I think blood axe kommandoez can be pretty handy for scoring. 3+ armored deepstriking orks for just 8 ppm are neat.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 17:42:08


Post by: gungo


To answer the question above about how storm boyz got better in the faq. Fly was fixed


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 18:45:33


Post by: flandarz


I still don't buy into the mindset that we're "not top table material" or "gatekeepers". The OP has 4 armies that placed in the top 3 for tournaments, and we had two armies make it into the top 20 (in an 800+ person tournament) a few months back or so. At the end of the day, I think we probably have one of the best, if not *the* best mono army in the game right now. Even with the Loota nerf. And while I agree we can't stack up to Imp Soup or Flyer Spam, if those are the only two army types that can keep us down, then I can't really complain.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 18:47:08


Post by: Emicrania


gungo wrote:
To answer the question above about how storm boyz got better in the faq. Fly was fixed


This, you can jump over chaff in order to charge backline.
I like your strategy, one question though, how do you keep pace with the mek?

I usually take da jamp and warpath, also da fist if vs hordes. I usually jump the boyz t1 vs gunline, vs hordes I wait T2, or da Jump Just within 18" in some odd corner in order to:
Distract the opponent fire
Bait the mainline in be disrupted
Shoot em and proc +1 for the dakkajet that will proc for the rest of the army with help of the gunz.
So far I beaten everything but those goddamn Ad mech and their broke dakkabots. Dude they need to go
90 points for a dreadnaught that kan shoot 18 shots with 6MW, reroll to hit and W and his turn get 4++???? GTFO!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
I still don't buy into the mindset that we're "not top table material" or "gatekeepers". The OP has 4 armies that placed in the top 3 for tournaments, and we had two armies make it into the top 20 (in an 800+ person tournament) a few months back or so. At the end of the day, I think we probably have one of the best, if not *the* best mono army in the game right now. Even with the Loota nerf. And while I agree we can't stack up to Imp Soup or Flyer Spam, if those are the only two army types that can keep us down, then I can't really complain.



Agree 100%. How allies works is completely broken, otherwise any other codex 1 vs 1 really struggle vs orks


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 19:11:27


Post by: xlDuke


Spoiler:
 Emicrania wrote:
gungo wrote:
To answer the question above about how storm boyz got better in the faq. Fly was fixed


This, you can jump over chaff in order to charge backline.
I like your strategy, one question though, how do you keep pace with the mek?

I usually take da jamp and warpath, also da fist if vs hordes. I usually jump the boyz t1 vs gunline, vs hordes I wait T2, or da Jump Just within 18" in some odd corner in order to:
Distract the opponent fire
Bait the mainline in be disrupted
Shoot em and proc +1 for the dakkajet that will proc for the rest of the army with help of the gunz.
So far I beaten everything but those goddamn Ad mech and their broke dakkabots. Dude they need to go
90 points for a dreadnaught that kan shoot 18 shots with 6MW, reroll to hit and W and his turn get 4++???? GTFO!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
I still don't buy into the mindset that we're "not top table material" or "gatekeepers". The OP has 4 armies that placed in the top 3 for tournaments, and we had two armies make it into the top 20 (in an 800+ person tournament) a few months back or so. At the end of the day, I think we probably have one of the best, if not *the* best mono army in the game right now. Even with the Loota nerf. And while I agree we can't stack up to Imp Soup or Flyer Spam, if those are the only two army types that can keep us down, then I can't really complain.



Agree 100%. How allies works is completely broken, otherwise any other codex 1 vs 1 really struggle vs orks


Just to clarify in case your opponent is playing those Kastelan Robots wrong - they're 110 points and can't really have a 4+ invulnerable (which is only against ranged attacks) and 18 shots in the same turn due to having to change their protocols (unless he uses a stratagem which can only work on them once, after that they are stuck in their current protocol), they can't re-roll wounds at all while they are also fishing out mortal wounds (it takes different Forgeworld dogmas, the re-roll wounds are only through a relic and are restrictive) and they can't move at all if they are shooting 18 shots. They're great, to be sure, but they don't play quite like you described. They'll go down quickly to Lootas and SSAG both shooting twice and are pretty much out of the game if you get them in melee because they can't fall back if they're shooting twice. I play both Ad Mech and Orks but I've never played Vs Ad Mech as Orks. In my mind the trick to win would be deesptrike, da jump, fighting twice, Greentide strat etc, really play to Orks' strengths.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 19:58:42


Post by: Grimskul


 koooaei wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
1 CP infantry only, outside of 3-4 MANz, characters or 20 boyz it's completely useless, and even those applications aren't great.

IMO, the only reason to play blood axes is to have a grot battalion with CP regeneration trait on a SAG.


I think blood axe kommandoez can be pretty handy for scoring. 3+ armored deepstriking orks for just 8 ppm are neat.


Don't kommandos only get 4+ to their save from being in cover? It doesn't stack, it replaces the usual +1 to a +2 instead for when they're in cover. And although it does synergize with their ability, I find that the 18" range for being in cover in the open makes it limited even if you deep strike them. Deffskull kommandos are still probably the best ones, thanks to them having obsec.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 20:21:48


Post by: flandarz


Yeah, just a 4+. But they'll get it "all the time" as long as shots are coming from 19+ inches away. Not bad, but I don't think the Blood Axe Kulture is really worth it, even for that. Rarely do battles remain outside of 18", since 18" is kind of the median range for most guns. And Kommandos have such short range weapons that you'll want to be inside 18" yourself. It'd be a much more useful Kultur if it was -1 to hit outside of 18" instead. Pair that with a KFF, and Ork survivability skyrockets.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 21:06:23


Post by: Emicrania


xlDuke wrote:
Spoiler:
 Emicrania wrote:
gungo wrote:
To answer the question above about how storm boyz got better in the faq. Fly was fixed


This, you can jump over chaff in order to charge backline.
I like your strategy, one question though, how do you keep pace with the mek?

I usually take da jamp and warpath, also da fist if vs hordes. I usually jump the boyz t1 vs gunline, vs hordes I wait T2, or da Jump Just within 18" in some odd corner in order to:
Distract the opponent fire
Bait the mainline in be disrupted
Shoot em and proc +1 for the dakkajet that will proc for the rest of the army with help of the gunz.
So far I beaten everything but those goddamn Ad mech and their broke dakkabots. Dude they need to go
90 points for a dreadnaught that kan shoot 18 shots with 6MW, reroll to hit and W and his turn get 4++???? GTFO!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
I still don't buy into the mindset that we're "not top table material" or "gatekeepers". The OP has 4 armies that placed in the top 3 for tournaments, and we had two armies make it into the top 20 (in an 800+ person tournament) a few months back or so. At the end of the day, I think we probably have one of the best, if not *the* best mono army in the game right now. Even with the Loota nerf. And while I agree we can't stack up to Imp Soup or Flyer Spam, if those are the only two army types that can keep us down, then I can't really complain.



Agree 100%. How allies works is completely broken, otherwise any other codex 1 vs 1 really struggle vs orks


Just to clarify in case your opponent is playing those Kastelan Robots wrong - they're 110 points and can't really have a 4+ invulnerable (which is only against ranged attacks) and 18 shots in the same turn due to having to change their protocols (unless he uses a stratagem which can only work on them once, after that they are stuck in their current protocol), they can't re-roll wounds at all while they are also fishing out mortal wounds (it takes different Forgeworld dogmas, the re-roll wounds are only through a relic and are restrictive) and they can't move at all if they are shooting 18 shots. They're great, to be sure, but they don't play quite like you described. They'll go down quickly to Lootas and SSAG both shooting twice and are pretty much out of the game if you get them in melee because they can't fall back if they're shooting twice. I play both Ad Mech and Orks but I've never played Vs Ad Mech as Orks. In my mind the trick to win would be deesptrike, da jump, fighting twice, Greentide strat etc, really play to Orks' strengths.


What happened is that he had the 4++ when I had T1, than changed protocol in his T1 and was backed by Cawl and some other stratagem shenanigans.
I really hope he misunderstood because otherwise they are completely broke


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 21:31:12


Post by: flandarz


If you feel like something might be broken, you're always within your rights to ask to see the source material your opponent is using for his army and his actions. Look it over and make sure it's on the up and up. But also remember that your opponent is human too. He/she might make mistakes or misread things.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 22:29:10


Post by: Grimskul


 flandarz wrote:
Yeah, just a 4+. But they'll get it "all the time" as long as shots are coming from 19+ inches away. Not bad, but I don't think the Blood Axe Kulture is really worth it, even for that. Rarely do battles remain outside of 18", since 18" is kind of the median range for most guns. And Kommandos have such short range weapons that you'll want to be inside 18" yourself. It'd be a much more useful Kultur if it was -1 to hit outside of 18" instead. Pair that with a KFF, and Ork survivability skyrockets.


Even making it +1 cover for shots outside of 12" would make it more palatable. I'm not sure how we'd buff the falling back ability though, beyond letting us fall back and shoot+charge, rather than just one.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 22:46:13


Post by: flandarz


Yeah. It's kinda sad how disparate the Kulturz are in viability. You got real great Kulturs like Death Skullz and Evil Sunz. You got pretty good ones like Blood Moonz and Freebooterz (I kinda think Blood Moonz dropped a bit since you can't Mob Up your Lootaz anymore). Then you got Blood Axez, Goffz, and Snakebitez, which I consider to be (at best) no better than just going with no Kultur. Outside of fringe situations, of course.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/09 23:08:37


Post by: Grimskul


 flandarz wrote:
Yeah. It's kinda sad how disparate the Kulturz are in viability. You got real great Kulturs like Death Skullz and Evil Sunz. You got pretty good ones like Blood Moonz and Freebooterz (I kinda think Blood Moonz dropped a bit since you can't Mob Up your Lootaz anymore). Then you got Blood Axez, Goffz, and Snakebitez, which I consider to be (at best) no better than just going with no Kultur. Outside of fringe situations, of course.




Seems par for the course like most books though, GW have a hard time balancing them one another, much less against other books. How often do you see White Scars SM, Biel-Tan Eldar or Armageddon Steel Legion IG? Even with the recent Vigilus book, GW managed to overshadow a lot of the legion traits with the specific renegade traits.

I hope at some point that GW gives us a Grot Kultur via White Dwarf or one of the expansion books, it's something woefully lacking when regarding any non-Mek gun Grot unit in the army.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 00:24:31


Post by: flandarz


That's fair. I just feel like it sucks more for Orkz than for a lot of other Factions, simply because Ork Kulturz are so different in lore.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 00:37:42


Post by: Grimskul


 flandarz wrote:
That's fair. I just feel like it sucks more for Orkz than for a lot of other Factions, simply because Ork Kulturz are so different in lore.


True dat. It also doesn't help that what we have is literally all we got. Imperials at the very least you can have "counts-as" for a lot of factions with soup, even Eldar to an extent with since they have Ynnari, Harlequins, and DE. Even Tyranids have GSC now. It's really just Tau, Necrons and Orks that have no friends to make up for any lacklustre faction rules.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 01:31:34


Post by: cody.d.


A few more unnamed or xenos only units would be nice like the ambul but more exotic. Maybe with a strategem like the assassins one. In essence like the damn endless spells from AOS.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 05:35:01


Post by: russellmoo


I played around with Blood Axes when the codex first dropped. Mostly because I've always been a Blood Axe player due to fluff.

The problems with the kultur have already been stated. 1. Orks tend to want to be within 18" of the enemy, and so the always being in cover thing only helps them 1 .

2. Orks rarely fall back, and most of the time your opponent falls back first and so the other part of the kultur ends up doing nothing.

Now where this kultur shines is on what are currently overpriced units. It works well I'm a gunwagon, it would be useful in a buggy themed army, and it adds durability to our flyers.

So, if gw where to lower the points on our bikes, buggies, wartrike and gunwagon you could build an effective Blood Axe army, but until those units are made playable, players are better off taking a kultur that benefits the units that are usable.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 06:10:16


Post by: tneva82


About only time I feel like "wish I had blood axe" is when enemy rhino/venom/chimera/whatever charges into the boyz. Which albeit is fairly often. Still not worth the tradeoff for the extra reliability on deep strike charge. If foot slogging across field was viable that could be different though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 09:02:50


Post by: CaptainO


gungo wrote:
To answer the question above about how storm boyz got better in the faq. Fly was fixed


Cheers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
I still don't buy into the mindset that we're "not top table material" or "gatekeepers". The OP has 4 armies that placed in the top 3 for tournaments, and we had two armies make it into the top 20 (in an 800+ person tournament) a few months back or so. At the end of the day, I think we probably have one of the best, if not *the* best mono army in the game right now. Even with the Loota nerf. And while I agree we can't stack up to Imp Soup or Flyer Spam, if those are the only two army types that can keep us down, then I can't really complain.


100%. There are so many different options. It all depends on how the armies are played. Orks are demonstrably able to win games, even placing in the top tables. No doubt chapter approved will rebalance some units but we still have options. Personally I'd say a good build is a 1/3 the work, correct deployment is another 1/3 and the rest is in game skill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Emicrania wrote:
gungo wrote:
To answer the question above about how storm boyz got better in the faq. Fly was fixed


This, you can jump over chaff in order to charge backline.
I like your strategy, one question though, how do you keep pace with the mek?

I usually take da jamp and warpath, also da fist if vs hordes. I usually jump the boyz t1 vs gunline, vs hordes I wait T2, or da Jump Just within 18" in some odd corner in order to:
Distract the opponent fire
Bait the mainline in be disrupted
Shoot em and proc +1 for the dakkajet that will proc for the rest of the army with help of the gunz.
So far I beaten everything but those goddamn Ad mech and their broke dakkabots. Dude they need to go
90 points for a dreadnaught that kan shoot 18 shots with 6MW, reroll to hit and W and his turn get 4++???? GTFO!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
I still don't buy into the mindset that we're "not top table material" or "gatekeepers". The OP has 4 armies that placed in the top 3 for tournaments, and we had two armies make it into the top 20 (in an 800+ person tournament) a few months back or so. At the end of the day, I think we probably have one of the best, if not *the* best mono army in the game right now. Even with the Loota nerf. And while I agree we can't stack up to Imp Soup or Flyer Spam, if those are the only two army types that can keep us down, then I can't really complain.



Agree 100%. How allies works is completely broken, otherwise any other codex 1 vs 1 really struggle vs orks


The big mek with kff is in a battleforged evil sunz detachment so get has a minimum 8" t1 move when advancing. The increased 18" range plus a minium of 8" means that he's able to keep up and most things are covered, even any da jumped boyz. 5++ to overwatch is sorely needed especially against tau. Reading the rules grot shield can be used in the charge phase too.

Any thoughts on charging a tau gunline? The guy I played last night had both drones that add d3" onto my required range (removing the evil sunz +1" bonus at a minimum) and another battlesuit that adds 2" onto required charge range if they are declared. This severly reduced the effectiveness of boyz charging after da jumping and green tiding.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 09:20:54


Post by: tneva82


CaptainO wrote:
100%. There are so many different options. It all depends on how the armies are played. Orks are demonstrably able to win games, even placing in the top tables. No doubt chapter approved will rebalance some units but we still have options. Personally I'd say a good build is a 1/3 the work, correct deployment is another 1/3 and the rest is in game skill.


Of course deployment and game skill are same for all so you can't count on that being advantage. Unless you are literally the best player in the world. Not much room for those in the game though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Squiggoth back on sale by FW BTW.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 09:35:05


Post by: CaptainO


tneva82 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
100%. There are so many different options. It all depends on how the armies are played. Orks are demonstrably able to win games, even placing in the top tables. No doubt chapter approved will rebalance some units but we still have options. Personally I'd say a good build is a 1/3 the work, correct deployment is another 1/3 and the rest is in game skill.


Of course deployment and game skill are same for all so you can't count on that being advantage. Unless you are literally the best player in the world. Not much room for those in the game though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Squiggoth back on sale by FW BTW.


I definitely wouldn't say deployment and game skill are the same for all. IMO deployment is the most important phase and I've seen many people mess it up. Deploying too far forward, poor bubble wrapping, not correctly securing objectives, assuming they'll go first, the list goes on. If game skill (as in ability to play your army well depending on the situation you're in and countering the enemies actions effectively) was the same for all then there wouldn't be much point in the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will caveat my above statement with the fact that I effectively got tabled t3 by the undefeated tau gunline list last night so what do I know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seriously how do orks deal with effetivley 90% of a tau gunline overwatchin on 5+ rerolling ones each tau dude shooting 3 time at s5. I'm going to have to buy some lootas I suppose.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 10:00:32


Post by: tneva82


CaptainO wrote:


I definitely wouldn't say deployment and game skill are the same for all. IMO deployment is the most important phase and I've seen many people mess it up. Deploying too far forward, poor bubble wrapping, not correctly securing objectives, assuming they'll go first, the list goes on. If game skill (as in ability to play your army well depending on the situation you're in and countering the enemies actions effectively) was the same for all then there wouldn't be much point in the game.


Yes but you can work on those skills same as all. Idea that you can compensate weaker codex by doing those better is fine but it ignores that opponent can do those just as well. Nothing in orks that make ork players superior in skills just because they are orks.

That's why I laugh every time sport team says they might be behind in skill but we'll win by work or to that effect. Why they think better skilled players don't do work? (actually in sport being better generally means they do more work...).

Work on deployment and in game skill sure but so do opponents so if you are playing with codex that's sub par you are already underdog. Imperium and eldar soups have plenty of just as good or better players unless you are the best player of the world. And those generally take the most powerful build anyway as they want to win.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 10:03:00


Post by: Emicrania


CapitanO

The big mek with kff is in a battleforged evil sunz detachment so get has a minimum 8" t1 move when advancing. The increased 18" range plus a minium of 8" means that he's able to keep up and most things are covered, even any da jumped boyz. 5++ to overwatch is sorely needed especially against tau. Reading the rules grot shield can be used in the charge phase too.

Any thoughts on charging a tau gunline? The guy I played last night had both drones that add d3" onto my required range (removing the evil sunz +1" bonus at a minimum) and another battlesuit that adds 2" onto required charge range if they are declared. This severly reduced the effectiveness of boyz charging after da jumping and green tiding.


I like your thinking, you have good board control and a devastating second turn. All revolve around t1

Dunno about Tau, we have no Tau players in my group. I wonder thought, can't you just shoot down the marker light with the shoota before charging?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 10:13:12


Post by: CaptainO


He takes something like 6 markerlights spread out between characters, pathfinders and I think drones. He takes 3 hammerheads (one of whom is a character) which absorb my shooting simply because two rounds of them shooting is devastating.

In my defence the guy who runs the list is the scottish champion and his won at least 2 tournaments with this list. Literally undefeated. Its one of the best synergized lists I've seen. Still who doesn't love a challenge.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 10:44:30


Post by: Jidmah


 koooaei wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
1 CP infantry only, outside of 3-4 MANz, characters or 20 boyz it's completely useless, and even those applications aren't great.

IMO, the only reason to play blood axes is to have a grot battalion with CP regeneration trait on a SAG.


I think blood axe kommandoez can be pretty handy for scoring. 3+ armored deepstriking orks for just 8 ppm are neat.


The 18" range means that you won't be having cover against anything that would shoot you. The range on that trait is just much too high, at 12" it would have been great, 18" makes it useless.

Deff skullz kommandoz are much better because they get objective secured.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CaptainO wrote:
Any thoughts on charging a tau gunline? The guy I played last night had both drones that add d3" onto my required range (removing the evil sunz +1" bonus at a minimum) and another battlesuit that adds 2" onto required charge range if they are declared. This severly reduced the effectiveness of boyz charging after da jumping and green tiding.


You could use the speed freaks specialist deatchment to drive some warbikes into his face T1. The more competitive advice would be to just gun down the things reducing your charge range and deep strike in your boyz when there is an opening, possibly holding them back till turn 3 to do so.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 16:20:13


Post by: koooaei


Well yeah, no idea about blood axes than.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe for snikrot or stompa


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 17:21:52


Post by: flandarz


I've been having a lot of success against Tau with a Freebooterz gun-heavy list (SSAG+Mek Gunz+Dakka Jets, etc.) Tau actually have some pretty terrible guns, if you don't get within the half-range for Rapid Fire. I know it seems counter-intuitive to play Orkz and not charge, but it really worked. My Tau opponent is struggling to deal with long-range Orkz who don't blindly charge his gun-line.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/10 18:37:36


Post by: Emicrania


That, I believe is the way to go.
I had about 20 matches with freebooterz and the more i play them, the more I see different way to play matches. Like I ll play vs DG+Nurgle tomorrow and I dont plan on jumping ork before T3


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/11 06:21:28


Post by: Singleton Mosby


What are the thoughs on Squiggoths, worth it?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/11 11:42:32


Post by: Vineheart01


Basic squiggoths are trash, even in the casual scene. One of the local ork players has a couple and constantly uses them and they almost always die before they even move, theyr even easier than a wagon to kill i swear.

Gargsquig is pretty good but like all ork FW stuff kinda overpriced. If it goes against a Macro weapon or just sheer mass of D6 or better weapons, its toast. Basically if it goes against a list intended to deal with a knight its not going to last long.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/11 13:41:29


Post by: Grensche


Pretty new to 8th, what would you guys recommend using when facing Imperial Guard?

Last time I played IG I wasnt thinking right and brought a knife to a tank fight.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/12 08:37:27


Post by: r_squared


 flandarz wrote:
I've been having a lot of success against Tau with a Freebooterz gun-heavy list (SSAG+Mek Gunz+Dakka Jets, etc.) Tau actually have some pretty terrible guns, if you don't get within the half-range for Rapid Fire. I know it seems counter-intuitive to play Orkz and not charge, but it really worked. My Tau opponent is struggling to deal with long-range Orkz who don't blindly charge his gun-line.


I have a lot of Tau in my area,and play against them frequently and this is the answer. It is entirely possible for orks to outshoot Tau now. I gave up trying assaulting them a while ago, completely pointless. The only things that will survive the charge are vehicles which can give you an opening sometimes, unless they're in a building, then you're boned. Plus, with a scattering of fly for their drone screens and battlesuits you can struggle to tie them up.

Go big on shooting Freebooterz or Bad Moons and you'll see results.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/12 15:32:00


Post by: SemperMortis


 r_squared wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
I've been having a lot of success against Tau with a Freebooterz gun-heavy list (SSAG+Mek Gunz+Dakka Jets, etc.) Tau actually have some pretty terrible guns, if you don't get within the half-range for Rapid Fire. I know it seems counter-intuitive to play Orkz and not charge, but it really worked. My Tau opponent is struggling to deal with long-range Orkz who don't blindly charge his gun-line.


I have a lot of Tau in my area,and play against them frequently and this is the answer. It is entirely possible for orks to outshoot Tau now. I gave up trying assaulting them a while ago, completely pointless. The only things that will survive the charge are vehicles which can give you an opening sometimes, unless they're in a building, then you're boned. Plus, with a scattering of fly for their drone screens and battlesuits you can struggle to tie them up.

Go big on shooting Freebooterz or Bad Moons and you'll see results.


Pre-FAQ Nerf I was taking 25 Lootas in a loota bomb. Turn 1, my boyz all advance (60 on the table) the loota bomb then shoots the piss out of his firewarriors, split fire 3 squads. I got lucky and fired 3 shots, so 75 shots, I had about 45 hits and about 36+ wounds with that -1 to armor made his firewarriors disappear. He had a Onion of death of 50 firewarriors, by the end of the shooting phase it was down to 20, he also had 3 broadsides with shield drones, the SSAG took out 1 completely, I then used my jumped boyz to assault the closest broadside and got in with a 8' charge, then I closed the distance and was able to tie up his remaining squads of firewarriors, a unit of pathfinders and the other broadside. Turn 2 I reinforced with Tellyporting boyz and more jumped boyz and kept basically his entire army tied up in CC while my lootas/Big mek went to work on his remaining units which wasn't that much.

CC still works really really well, what doesn't work though is running head first into the guns of a tau gunline. In my example I had terrain which I could effectively use to shield my boyz from overwatch. If you try to out shoot a Tau gunline, you will lose if he is bringing good units. Freebooters die very very quickly to tau gunlines and they can out distance you easily. Good luck out shooting firewarriors, S5 BS4+ 7ppm infantry with a ranged 30 *Usually 36* gun that can easily be buffed to double tap at 18' or longer range and have 3 shots at that range. Or if you fight against broadsides they can just hose you down with missile fire and indirect weapons fire.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/12 15:57:34


Post by: flandarz


Oh yeah. You can still CC. I'm just saying that I've been having success with Freebooter gun lists against them. We have a fair number of units with 36+ range on their guns, and even more with 24". If you can stay outside of their Rapid-Fire range, you can definitely outshoot Tau. I've actually moved away from bringing Boy Mobs, so most of my units actually have the range to deal with Tau. Mek Gunz, SSAG and regular SAG, Dakka Jets, and a Gork are the core of my list. I actually don't have any "dedicated" CC units anymore, but it's generally fine because (other than Grots) even ranged focused Orkz are pretty solid in CC>


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/12 16:15:48


Post by: r_squared


 flandarz wrote:
Oh yeah. You can still CC. I'm just saying that I've been having success with Freebooter gun lists against them. We have a fair number of units with 36+ range on their guns, and even more with 24". If you can stay outside of their Rapid-Fire range, you can definitely outshoot Tau. I've actually moved away from bringing Boy Mobs, so most of my units actually have the range to deal with Tau. Mek Gunz, SSAG and regular SAG, Dakka Jets, and a Gork are the core of my list. I actually don't have any "dedicated" CC units anymore, but it's generally fine because (other than Grots) even ranged focused Orkz are pretty solid in CC>


Exactly the same for me. It's perfectly feasible to outshoot tau and actually just ignore close combat altogether. I've done it several times myself.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/12 20:39:36


Post by: Grimskul


 flandarz wrote:
Oh yeah. You can still CC. I'm just saying that I've been having success with Freebooter gun lists against them. We have a fair number of units with 36+ range on their guns, and even more with 24". If you can stay outside of their Rapid-Fire range, you can definitely outshoot Tau. I've actually moved away from bringing Boy Mobs, so most of my units actually have the range to deal with Tau. Mek Gunz, SSAG and regular SAG, Dakka Jets, and a Gork are the core of my list. I actually don't have any "dedicated" CC units anymore, but it's generally fine because (other than Grots) even ranged focused Orkz are pretty solid in CC>


Mhm, you basically have to take the "War of Dakka" mentality that Warboss Grog did, and allow them to take their assumptions of you charging at their line to your advantage and basically beat them at their own game before mopping up the survivors with whatever CC elements (if any) you have on hand. Traktor kannons are decent against them simply because so many of their units have the FLY keyword as well.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/12 21:50:43


Post by: tneva82


Except its for VEHICLE that has FLY. So that's basically...hammerheads. All the suits are out and those are the competive elements.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/12 22:09:03


Post by: flandarz


Yeah. And, honestly, I'll take the d3 shots and better AP over a single auto-hit and like +1 Damage (on average) any day. And considering you can get 3 Smashas for the price of 2 Traktorz, I just feel like they're a better investment. I still include 1 or 2 in my lists, but any more than that feels like a waste.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/13 06:31:19


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 flandarz wrote:
Yeah. And, honestly, I'll take the d3 shots and better AP over a single auto-hit and like +1 Damage (on average) any day. And considering you can get 3 Smashas for the price of 2 Traktorz, I just feel like they're a better investment. I still include 1 or 2 in my lists, but any more than that feels like a waste.


That is until you encounter one of those annoyinf Eldar flyer lists with -2 to hit flyerspam. That being said; I onl use smasha's myself and only resented the choice on a few occasions.


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Basic squiggoths are trash, even in the casual scene. One of the local ork players has a couple and constantly uses them and they almost always die before they even move, theyr even easier than a wagon to kill i swear.


On paper it looks to be about equal to a regular Battlewagon. Which tend to survive quite long over here most of the time because of other, larger threats.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/13 14:12:14


Post by: CaptainO


Cheers lads. Some quality tactical tips coming my way. I've bitten the bullet and started converting 15 lootas to up my dakka. Now all I have to do is develop some self control and hold back da jumping my 30/40 boyz squad unitl T3. The drones and battlesuits that add 1+" to your charge range are going to be a target priority. In future I'm going to be deploying the soon to be da jumped boyz right at the back.

In response to the guy asking about beating imperial guard, da jumping a mobbed up squad of 40 evil sunz declaring as many infantry units as possible and then fighting twice is the job. Try and tag the vehicles after you fight twice. Using the kff 18" strat and Running and advancing a big mek with kff forward will provide the boyz who will probably be overwatched (very hard to hide all 40 boyz behind LoS blocking terrain post da jump and pre charge). The 5++ more than halves the number of boyz who'll die to overwatch.

SSAG Mek will the killa boss trait will do some serious damage to any guard vehicles. Just make sure you take a grot oiler to absorb any sniper shots coming his way especially if you use grot shield to cover your lootas.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/13 21:19:09


Post by: gnome_idea_what


I’ve been out of the 40k scene for a few months, what changed with regards to lootas? I’ve seen some references to loota bomb nerf, but where can I find that FAQ?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/13 21:23:40


Post by: Vineheart01


Lootas themselves really didnt change since 7th edition.
They gained Kultures (everyone did not just orks gaining some kind of clan/sept/whatever rule) and some stratagems make them perform unusually well.
The FAQ was two-fold, their D3 shots is rolled when they are selected to shoot (so shoot twice strat means they roll twice now) and Mob Up is boyz-restricted now.

Loota Bomb was 15 + 10 Lootas that would immediately Mob Up to become a 25 Loota mob w/ shooting twice stratagem every time they rolled a 2 or 3 on the number of shots. With grot shields they were either piss easy to get rid of because you had the rate of fire needed, or impossible.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 01:44:17


Post by: JimOnMars


Anyone else run lootas in trukks? Without mob up it seems to me like the way to go. for +5pts each they gain 10 ablative t6 wounds, easy LootIt when the trukk dies, greater mobility when not shooting and a smaller deployment footprint.

Since I'm a die-hard blood axe, parking the trukk sideways on the table edge gives me cover from a big chunk of the board.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 02:01:33


Post by: flandarz


I actually prefer to put Flashgitz in my Trukkz. With a smaller range on their guns, they benefit more from the enhanced mobility, and having a 4+ BS instead of a 5+ means they can still hit things after moving. If you can proc the Freebooterz Kultur, you can actually *still* hit on 4s after moving. And they get more shots with better AP- (and basically inconsequentially less S). They're also Nobz, so better W and S, and their 4+ Save becomes a 3+ after Loot It. Too bad they're so expensive. I'd be a lot happier with them if they were about 5-10 points cheaper.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, slightly disappointed that you can't use Gun Crazy Show-Offs while in a Trukk. Well, technically you *can* but, since the Gitz aren't on the board, no unit is the "closest" unit, so you can't target anything with it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 02:53:35


Post by: cody.d.


I often feel if you're buying a transport just for the durability it offers you may as well spend those points on more of the unit in question.

Failing that a bunker or bastion isn't that much more expensive but a lot tougher.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 03:02:05


Post by: tneva82


 JimOnMars wrote:
Anyone else run lootas in trukks? Without mob up it seems to me like the way to go. for +5pts each they gain 10 ablative t6 wounds, easy LootIt when the trukk dies, greater mobility when not shooting and a smaller deployment footprint.

Since I'm a die-hard blood axe, parking the trukk sideways on the table edge gives me cover from a big chunk of the board.



You also lose at least half your firepower and more if you move just by being on trukk...Only lootas worth putting on trukk are freebootas but those are inferior to bad moon ones anyway.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 05:11:40


Post by: koooaei


If i get it right, you can't trigger the freeboota trait with a transported unit. You can benefit from it if some other unit that's deployed normally triggered the rule.

Transports are pretty odd nowadays. Technically, if you follow raw, you can't even disembark unless the transport is destroyed.

Besides that, transports don't add much to speed, often don't add anything to durability but take away from damage per point from the transported units. There are some exceptions though. For example, if a transport is tough and shooty like a wave serpebt or cheap and good all around and can transport cheap good units like de. As for orks, it seems that the only units worth transporting with a trukk are tankbustas and grots. Bustas cause they are expensive, squishy, yet deal nice damage and need to be within 24. And grots cause they are a relatively cheap utility unit. Battlewagon, i'm not sure, maybe nobz and grots/kommandoez


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 06:17:33


Post by: Moriarty


Not run Lootaz in a Trukk yet, but it is my default setting for Flash Gitz. Just remember to include Ammo Runtz for when the Trukk explodes, and to Loot It for 3+ Save after.

Have tried Grotz in Trukks - the 5+ save is fun, but their damage output does not warrant it, really. Might add the Stikk Bom Chukka for laughs.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 07:48:34


Post by: Jidmah


 koooaei wrote:
If i get it right, you can't trigger the freeboota trait with a transported unit. You can benefit from it if some other unit that's deployed normally triggered the rule.

Transports are pretty odd nowadays. Technically, if you follow raw, you can't even disembark unless the transport is destroyed.

Besides that, transports don't add much to speed, often don't add anything to durability but take away from damage per point from the transported units. There are some exceptions though. For example, if a transport is tough and shooty like a wave serpebt or cheap and good all around and can transport cheap good units like de. As for orks, it seems that the only units worth transporting with a trukk are tankbustas and grots. Bustas cause they are expensive, squishy, yet deal nice damage and need to be within 24. And grots cause they are a relatively cheap utility unit. Battlewagon, i'm not sure, maybe nobz and grots/kommandoez


Trukk boyz still work for deffskulls since you can have a single rokkit and a tankbusta bomb with re-rolls in there. With index allowed, you can have another rokkit on the trukk, basically making it a buggy with a unit inside.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 09:03:58


Post by: tneva82


 koooaei wrote:
If i get it right, you can't trigger the freeboota trait with a transported unit. You can benefit from it if some other unit that's deployed normally triggered the rule.


Some unit triggers it, the transport gets it, it's modifier so it passes on to lootas inside.

Obviously if your only freebootas are transport and lootas that doesn't work but that's fairly odd list(would require 2 auxiliary detachments...). Just have some mek guns, dakkajets or so around. If you want trukk lootas that's the way to go.





Transports are pretty odd nowadays. Technically, if you follow raw, you can't even disembark unless the transport is destroyed.


What weird RAW that would be


Besides that, transports don't add much to speed, often don't add anything to durability but take away from damage per point from the transported units. There are some exceptions though. For example, if a transport is tough and shooty like a wave serpebt or cheap and good all around and can transport cheap good units like de. As for orks, it seems that the only units worth transporting with a trukk are tankbustas and grots. Bustas cause they are expensive, squishy, yet deal nice damage and need to be within 24. And grots cause they are a relatively cheap utility unit. Battlewagon, i'm not sure, maybe nobz and grots/kommandoez


Wouldn't trukk just add ridiculous markup to grots? Just have more grots for same price.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 11:49:00


Post by: koooaei


It's counter-intuitive to some degree but trukk grots seem to work for me. I occasionally use them for grot shields, bauble wraps and scoring that the opponent hates shooting at. Grots as is are exceptionally easy to remove due to ld4 and they don't work as scoring too well for this reason. At least outside boss's aura. But whrn the grots are hidden inside a trukk, i have certain freedom of deploying them after the trukk gets blown away, so that i can try to get them out of los of the enemy that can't move any further this turn.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 15:21:11


Post by: CaptainO


I like putting grots in vehicles when the vehicle also contains characters. Prevents the possibility of removing an expensive model when it invariably goes kaboom.

I'm investigating taking a Bad moon warboss, giving him the blunderbus relic and big choppa and putting him in a trukk with 10 grots. It basically becomes a Hellhound. Invariably when the trukk goes kablamo my opponent will still have to deal with a close combat monster that can use grot shield with what remains of his grot entourage. 166points . Anyone tried this?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 15:31:43


Post by: tneva82


For grot screen grots need to be closer to enemy than warboss at which point they can't shoot anyway. So no need for strategem either. Save screen for lootas


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 16:30:46


Post by: CaptainO


If your opponent doesn’t have snipers or a knight with shield breaker missiles you’re totally correct but a good opponent will hold back their snipers until after they’ve popped any transports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I haven’t checked but what is the story with sniper mortal wounds and grit shield strat btw?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 18:12:53


Post by: flandarz


If a Grot takes the shot, the Mortal Wounds disappear. Because of the "ends the attack phase" portion of the stratagem.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 18:23:17


Post by: russellmoo


CaptainO wrote:
I like putting grots in vehicles when the vehicle also contains characters. Prevents the possibility of removing an expensive model when it invariably goes kaboom.

I'm investigating taking a Bad moon warboss, giving him the blunderbus relic and big choppa and putting him in a trukk with 10 grots. It basically becomes a Hellhound. Invariably when the trukk goes kablamo my opponent will still have to deal with a close combat monster that can use grot shield with what remains of his grot entourage. 166points . Anyone tried this?


This also might be a good way for a snakebite warboss to deliver the buzz bomb relic.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/14 18:31:45


Post by: tneva82


CaptainO wrote:
If your opponent doesn’t have snipers or a knight with shield breaker missiles you’re totally correct but a good opponent will hold back their snipers until after they’ve popped any transports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I haven’t checked but what is the story with sniper mortal wounds and grit shield strat btw?


Most snipers don't kill even weirdboy let alone warboss. Assasin sniper isn't in all lists. And is warboss without killa klaw bigger threat than lootas?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/15 06:54:58


Post by: koooaei


tneva82 wrote:
 koooaei wrote:


Transports are pretty odd nowadays. Technically, if you follow raw, you can't even disembark unless the transport is destroyed.


What weird RAW that would be



Don't have a book on hands. It's the part with "unit can not be affected by any auras".


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/15 07:22:51


Post by: Jidmah


GW has sufficiently clarified what an aura is to debunk the "disembarking is an aura" argument.

If you are a fan of idiotic interpretations of rules despite them being clear, I suggest opening a thread on YMDC and sending BaconCatBug a PM. None of that here.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/15 07:48:05


Post by: tneva82


 koooaei wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 koooaei wrote:


Transports are pretty odd nowadays. Technically, if you follow raw, you can't even disembark unless the transport is destroyed.


What weird RAW that would be



Don't have a book on hands. It's the part with "unit can not be affected by any auras".


I could see "cannot normally do anything..." to be read that except only little later there's specific exception made for disembarking. Even for BCP standards this would be ridiculous. Wonder if anybody actually has been ever silly enough to try to claim this Would be good "make yourself instant clown" method for sure.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/15 09:59:58


Post by: CaptainO


tneva82 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
If your opponent doesn’t have snipers or a knight with shield breaker missiles you’re totally correct but a good opponent will hold back their snipers until after they’ve popped any transports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I haven’t checked but what is the story with sniper mortal wounds and grit shield strat btw?


Most snipers don't kill even weirdboy let alone warboss. Assasin sniper isn't in all lists. And is warboss without killa klaw bigger threat than lootas?


Between shield breaker missile strat, Mordian orders, sniper drones or even the ork trait that allows the targeting of characters within 18” there are more and more reasons to Be mindful and the grot strat is a nice to have. If there’s a choice between sniping a blunderbuss warboss and killaklaw warboss is snipe the blunderbuss one and charge the killaklaw. 2d6 autohit overwatch is not too bad.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/15 10:02:44


Post by: tneva82


CaptainO wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
If your opponent doesn’t have snipers or a knight with shield breaker missiles you’re totally correct but a good opponent will hold back their snipers until after they’ve popped any transports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I haven’t checked but what is the story with sniper mortal wounds and grit shield strat btw?


Most snipers don't kill even weirdboy let alone warboss. Assasin sniper isn't in all lists. And is warboss without killa klaw bigger threat than lootas?


Between shield breaker missile strat, Mordian orders, sniper drones or even the ork trait that allows the targeting of characters within 18” there are more and more reasons to Be mindful and the grot strat is a nice to have. If there’s a choice between sniping a blunderbuss warboss and killaklaw warboss is snipe the blunderbuss one and charge the killaklaw. 2d6 autohit overwatch is not too bad.


Never been too bothered by shield breakers especially after raven stratagem got more expensive. It's only reliable with that and even then I have failed to kill lots of 4-5 wound characters. Mordians I have yet to see as catachan/cadia just is better. And generally I lose rather that blunderbuss warboss than the lootas. If my opponent protects the warboss I'm just happy and kill the more dangerous lootas ASAP.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/15 16:44:37


Post by: Levski


Is the DDD stratagem provided to us in Chapter Approved '17 still valid?

If yes, interestingly it doesn't say that you roll an additonal shot on an unmodified 6+. This means you can use it in conjunction with the freeboota kultur and effectively get the same output as 'More dakka', because of the +1 to hit, for only 1CP. Downsides is that you still don't hit on unmodified 5+, but if valid its a nice little synergy.

Not sure if it can stack with either the inbuilt DDD rule or More Dakka stratagem?

(Credit to r/orks user who spotted this)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/15 16:51:49


Post by: flandarz


From my reading of it, it can stack with the inbuilt DDD, and More Dakka. No idea if it's still valid to use though, but I can't remember anything about "old stratagems" no longer being valid.

Basically, if you stack it with Freebooterz and More Dakka, you'd roll 2 extra attacks for each shooting roll of 5+ (unless you're shooting at targets with penalties to hit).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/15 21:08:43


Post by: addnid


Bigkilla boss WLT works for shooting attacks, thus for SSAG ? (Been focusing on gsc lately but now getting back to orks for all 2019)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/15 21:39:49


Post by: flandarz


Yes, it works for the SAG.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/15 21:40:06


Post by: Vineheart01


Thats generally the big reason the SSAG is such a threat.
It enables it to reliably wound big things, even with a crap strength roll. You have to roll absolute crap to wound badly with that trait.
And with the new FAQ if you DO roll that badly, just shoot something T4-ish with an armor save since now we know the strength before the target.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/16 06:42:07


Post by: koooaei


Do you roll the number of shots before you choose the target also? Or faq for sag rules only applies to str.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/16 08:20:03


Post by: addnid


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats generally the big reason the SSAG is such a threat.
It enables it to reliably wound big things, even with a crap strength roll. You have to roll absolute crap to wound badly with that trait.
And with the new FAQ if you DO roll that badly, just shoot something T4-ish with an armor save since now we know the strength before the target.


I cannot find anything in the FAQ dealing with the choice of target after the strengh roll, where is it please ? I'll need to show proof to my opponent tomorrow


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/16 09:56:56


Post by: tneva82


Page 86 & 120 – Shokk Attack GunChange the first sentence of this weapon’s ability to read:‘Each time this unit is chosen to shoot with, roll once to determine the Strength characteristic of this weapon.’

Though I expect GW did not intend to make SSAG unique special snowflake and was just careless as usual with wording(they don't know their own phases anyway) and will rollback this in next FAQ update but until then unless ruled otherwise(like tournament here) that's how it goes.

Not that it's big deal in general with that warlord trait. You will shoot vs vehicle whether you roll S2 or S12 anyway. Only difference in practice comes whether shooting say leman russ commander or knight(where you will want to switch target if you roll 11+)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/16 19:43:13


Post by: flandarz


Totally missed this in all the other nerds, but we have to reroll both dice for 'Ere We Go now, instead of being able to reroll only 1 if we want. That one hurts.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/16 19:48:42


Post by: JNAProductions


 flandarz wrote:
Totally missed this in all the other nerds, but we have to reroll both dice for 'Ere We Go now, instead of being able to reroll only 1 if we want. That one hurts.


When was that changed?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/16 19:52:08


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 flandarz wrote:
Totally missed this in all the other nerds, but we have to reroll both dice for 'Ere We Go now, instead of being able to reroll only 1 if we want. That one hurts.


Actually you don't. 'Ere we go specifically states "all or any of the dice". You can still just roll 1 die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
Totally missed this in all the other nerds, but we have to reroll both dice for 'Ere We Go now, instead of being able to reroll only 1 if we want. That one hurts.


When was that changed?


It wasn't. He's referring to this from the FAQ :

Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means
you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule
allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding
several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless
otherwise stated
, you must roll all of those dice again.
You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls
happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’


However, 'Ere we go is exempt from this, as the bolded part concerns it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/16 20:03:58


Post by: Vineheart01


yeah thats the sole reason 'ere we go is so dang strong.
Its not just the reroll for free, its the choice reroll for free.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/16 20:10:08


Post by: tneva82


Copying from another thread:

Odds of a 9 inch charge: 27.78%
Rerolling 1 die: 52.31%
Rerolling both dice: 47.84%
Choice between rerolling 1 or both: 56.94%

For an 8 inch charge (i.e. with +1 to charge roll): 41.67%
Reroll 1 die: 68.06%
Reroll both: 65.97%
Choice between rerolls: 72.45%

So reroling 1 dice is generally better than rerolling both. And having choice is even better. Others have to use CP reroll for same effect if they have reroll charge roll ability. We get it for free. For every unit. Yey.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/16 20:32:34


Post by: flandarz


Ah. That's good then. I was concerned.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/16 20:35:28


Post by: PiñaColada


What I'm sort of left wondering is that if someone is a real stickler for RAW, then is the SSAG truly allowed to use the "roll strength before choosing target buff"? Technically speaking the vigilus defiant FAQ didn't update with this new sentence (there doesn't even seem to be a vigilus defiant FAQ).

Basically, logically speaking it should get that buff as well since they're identical weapons save for amount of shots, but the ork FAQ only mentions the non-relic version obviously


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/17 07:18:25


Post by: Orkimedez_Atalaya


Still, I strongly believe that the purpose of the FAQ is the same as with the lootas. That's to state that EACH time they shoot they have the go through the random values. So, no shooting twice using the same strenght or number of shoots.

As I read it, the FAQ states that you have to roll for strenght, it does not answer "when" it answers "what". Therefore I understand that the normal chain of events should not be modified as it does not explicitly says so.

Soooo, as I see it is a "nerf" rather than a buff. Definitely not a snowfleak.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/17 11:58:04


Post by: CaptainO


My mates and I are having a 40k weekend, couple of games all at 1500 points. Its going to be a relaxed affair so I'm going to try something different.

I'm going to run a Snakebite kult of speed brigade detachment:

Spoiler:

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Orks) [85 PL, -3CP, 1500pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Snakebites

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Kult of Speed

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 75pts]: Choppa, Kustom Force Field

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, -1CP, 120pts]: Quick, Ladz!, Skargrim’s Snazztrike, Stratagem: Field Commander

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 203pts]: 2x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 28x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin [4 PL, 90pts]: 30x Gretchin

Gretchin [4 PL, 90pts]: 30x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Brogs Buzzbomb, Kustom Shoota

Nobz [7 PL, 78pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. Nob: Choppa, Power Stabba

Painboy [3 PL, 65pts]: Power Klaw, Surly as a Squiggoth, Warlord

+ Fast Attack +

Deff Kopta [5 PL, 78pts]
. DeffKopta: Kustom Mega-blasta
. DeffKopta: Kustom Mega-blasta

Warbikers [14 PL, 230pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Warbiker: 9x Stikkbombs

Warbikers [4 PL, 69pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 2x Warbiker: 2x Stikkbombs

+ Heavy Support +

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun

++ Total: [85 PL, -3CP, 1500pts] ++



The two squads of 30 grots will be buffed by the KFF mek, painboy and waaagh banner. The painboy will have the snakebite WLT so not only do the grots have a 5++ 6+FNP BS3+ and WS3+ theyre also fearless.

The warbikes (converted cyboars)will be super maneuverable and a tiny bit more survivable thanks to the 6+FNP and supporting deffkilla wartrike. I've given the wartrike the +1 T and 5++ relic which combo'd with the 6+FNP should keep him around for a bit. I was torn between giving him that relic and the buzz bomb due to his ability to get into range fast but have decided to give that to the waaaagh banner nob instead. Its a autohit grenade so could really cause problems in overwatch.Anyone tried running snakebites?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/17 12:27:32


Post by: flandarz


Snakebitez already gives you a 6+++. The Painboy is kinda redundant.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/17 12:49:40


Post by: Waaaghbert


CaptainO wrote:
My mates and I are having a 40k weekend, couple of games all at 1500 points. Its going to be a relaxed affair so I'm going to try something different.

I'm going to run a Snakebite kult of speed brigade detachment:

Spoiler:

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Orks) [85 PL, -3CP, 1500pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Snakebites

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Kult of Speed

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 75pts]: Choppa, Kustom Force Field

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, -1CP, 120pts]: Quick, Ladz!, Skargrim’s Snazztrike, Stratagem: Field Commander

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 203pts]: 2x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 28x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin [4 PL, 90pts]: 30x Gretchin

Gretchin [4 PL, 90pts]: 30x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Brogs Buzzbomb, Kustom Shoota

Nobz [7 PL, 78pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. Nob: Choppa, Power Stabba

Painboy [3 PL, 65pts]: Power Klaw, Surly as a Squiggoth, Warlord

+ Fast Attack +

Deff Kopta [5 PL, 78pts]
. DeffKopta: Kustom Mega-blasta
. DeffKopta: Kustom Mega-blasta

Warbikers [14 PL, 230pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Warbiker: 9x Stikkbombs

Warbikers [4 PL, 69pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 2x Warbiker: 2x Stikkbombs

+ Heavy Support +

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun

++ Total: [85 PL, -3CP, 1500pts] ++



The two squads of 30 grots will be buffed by the KFF mek, painboy and waaagh banner. The painboy will have the snakebite WLT so not only do the grots have a 5++ 6+FNP BS3+ and WS3+ theyre also fearless.

The warbikes (converted cyboars)will be super maneuverable and a tiny bit more survivable thanks to the 6+FNP and supporting deffkilla wartrike. I've given the wartrike the +1 T and 5++ relic which combo'd with the 6+FNP should keep him around for a bit. I was torn between giving him that relic and the buzz bomb due to his ability to get into range fast but have decided to give that to the waaaagh banner nob instead. Its a autohit grenade so could really cause problems in overwatch.Anyone tried running snakebites?


Let us know, how it worked out! Sadly I don't think the grots benefit from the banner... It is friendly CLAN units only, as far as I remeber, isn't it?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/17 13:15:44


Post by: Vineheart01


Grots are still a Clan tag, they just dont get kultures.
They are part of that clan for all rules and purposes. They would benefit from <clan> auras and can even trigger Freeboota +1 aura, just cant utilize it themselves.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/17 13:42:33


Post by: Waaaghbert


Oh sorry, I stand corrected


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/17 13:56:46


Post by: Fan67


Have somebody conducted thorough mathhammer for Orkz' gunlines to find out who is better now that we have more random and less mobbedup Lootas: Freeboterz or Bad Moon?

I have tried several approaches, considered math expectation and also tried to calculate every different scenario. I kinda gave up.

My test-roster consisted of 15 lootas, Morkanaut, 3 SAG (one of them Relic), 15 tankbustas in tellyporta with 3 bombsquigs, 60 shoota boyz.

Results are very mixed up, but what I can say is pretty obvious: that Bad Moonz are better at concentrating power and better against opponents with -2 or better penalty to hit, but Freebooterz give much more smoother, yet a bit unpredictable, power surge.

I think against MSU opponents Freebooterz yield better results.
Against deathstar opponents showin' off with bad moonz is better.

I think the involvement of Gretchins into Freeboterz kultur might give it an edge (in a singular test game it was Trakktor kannon who finished the squad which gave the boost to my army).
Feel a bit torn up, which kultur to choose in the upcoming tournament. 30 shots from Tankbustas are very juicy, and ability to double-shoot from both relic shocka and morkanaut/tankboostas is hard to give up, but Freeboterz save so many CP and give only a slightly less shots overall.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/17 16:59:44


Post by: Singleton Mosby


I prefer Freebooters myself because it saves you time on all the Bad Moon rerolls. Furthermore the 'Freebooters minigame' you'll be playing each turn is fun (and sometimes annoyingly frustrating). With small armies (750 or 1000 pts) it can be quite hard to get the bubble off though. Another thing which speaks for freebooters is that their bonus also works in close-combat.

Don't know about the math, but I mostly play freebooters because it is a little quicker and more fun.

For MSU lists you might also want to consider deafskulls. I now play a list with many buggies and small units and they benefit a lot from their clan traits. Making it even worthwhile to include (combi-)rokkits in your lists.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/18 18:06:19


Post by: CaptainO


 flandarz wrote:
Snakebitez already gives you a 6+++. The Painboy is kinda redundant.


Painboy gives the grots 6+ fnp


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The grots are there to act as a tar pit. I never bother with pistol attacks but since they’ll be hitting on 3+ in the shooting phase and again in the fight phase I’m hoping they’ll chip away at whoever’s stuck with them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/18 19:30:11


Post by: Vineheart01


seriously taking a painboy for grots to get a 6+++? They dont get it for Grot Shield stratagem since the model is slain not wounded.
Its a bit of a debate if the painboy is even worth it for boyz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/18 20:02:18


Post by: tneva82


Yeah the 6+++ is bad. Just take another unit of grots


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/18 20:43:46


Post by: CaptainO


As I said this is a friendly game weekend. I just want to try out some new things. I’ll be running two squads of 30 grots who will be fearless thanks to the snakebite wlt on the painboy. With the number of grots around him he’ll come close to making his points back before lifting a finger.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok not his points back but around half (12 fnp from 60 grots before the two squads are dead)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/18 22:30:54


Post by: flandarz


If you're just doing it for funsies, then I won't stand in your way. Just bear in mind that this is the "competitive" thread. So, we're giving you competitive advice. If you're looking to bank in the SB WLT, you might want to consider bringing some Killa Kanz along too. Maybe drop the Nobs and bring them along. Between the KFF and the WLT, they might actually put in some work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, wanna point out that although your Grots will be hitting on 3+ in the shooting phase and 4+ in the fighting phase, the S3 of their guns and the S2 of their attacks means you'll be getting, at best, a 4+ to Wound at range and a 5+ to Wound in CC. Not worth it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/19 07:49:54


Post by: Fan67


Played against highly competitive Eldars yesterday.
Spoiler:


== Battalion Detachment == Craftworlds, <Alaitoc> [1145 pts] +5 CP

HQ: Autarch (65), Star Glaive (6), Forceshield (6), Faolchu's Wing (Relic) = [77 pts] – Warlord: Puritanical Leader
HQ: Warlock Skyrunner (65), Twin Shuriken Catapult (2) = [67 pts] – Psychic Powers: Protect/Jinx

TR: 8 Storm Guardians (48), 8 Chainswords (0) = [48 pts]
TR: 5 Rangers (60) = [60 pts]
TR: 5 Rangers (60) = [60 pts]

HS: 10 Dark Reapers (120), Exarch (0), 9 Reaper Launchers (198), Tempest Launcher (27) = [345 pts]

DT: Wave Serpent (120), Twin Shuriken Cannon (17), Shuriken Cannon (10), Spirit Stones (10), Vectored Engines (10) = [167 pts]

FL: Crimson Hunter (120), 2 Bright Lances (40) = [160 pts]
FL: Crimson Hunter Exarch (135), 2 Starcannons (26) = [161 pts]

== Battalion Detachment == Craftworlds, <Alaitoc> [298 pts] +5 CP

HQ: Spiritseer (65) = [65 pts] – Psychic Powers: Conceal/Reveal
HQ: Spiritseer (65) = [65 pts] – Psychic Powers: Protect/Jinx

TR: 8 Storm Guardians (48), 8 Chainswords (0) = [48 pts]
TR: 5 Rangers (60) = [60 pts]
TR: 5 Rangers (60) = [60 pts]

== Outrider Specialist Detachment == Craftworlds, Windrider Host, <Alaitoc> [557 pts] 0 CP

HQ: Farseer Skyrunner (130), Twin Shuriken Catapult (2) = [132pts] – Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

FA: 8 Windriders (128), 8 Scatter Lasers (56) = [184 pts]
FA: 8 Windriders (128), 8 Scatter Lasers (56) = [184 pts]
FA: Vyper (40), Scatter Laser (7), Shuriken Cannon (10) = [57 pts]

TACTICAL OBJECTIVES: Craftworlds
REFINED STRATEGIES: Advance, Domination, Blood and Guts, Orders Received


My roster was:
Spoiler:



Dawn of war, mission with intel characters.
I got first turn, and Eldar made mistake not placing one of the flyers into reserves: it received around 30 damage from Relic Shocka, but otherwise turn was lackluster. I jumped boyz and tri-pointed one of the storm guardians squad and killing the second.

His first turn was more fruitful: I placed lootas on the second floor of the ruin, while 60 Grots were on the first floor los blocked.
My opponent maneuvered windriders and with double move one of the squads moved on the second floor of the ruin in the middle of the table, so geometrically it was closer to the lootas. I lost 5 lootas to that shooting. Lost 3 more to the second squad of windriders and reapers (Grot shield yielded a lot of “1”), and rest of the lootas died from morale, hadn’t fire a single shot.
Moreover I lost 3 squads of Grots and more than a half of my boyz squad died from charges.

I did highly regret not taking Freebooterz: their relic banner would save me 3
Kill points on Grots, several lootas and I wouldn’t be forced to pay 2cp on boyz morale.

Following game I almost annihilated his army, except for farseer, autarch and 10 rangers, but he got a lot of intel victory points, 4 vp from kill point difference and accumulated 8 more VP from maelstrom (lucky draw! )

1-19 loss.

Hero of the game is Relic shocka and a squad of Tank Bustas, who brought death and destruction.
SAG killed both fliers and on a crucial turn evaporated squad of reapers with S11 and 10 shots rolled.
Tanbustas killed a lot of windriders.
Double shooting of bad moons never happened due to extreme CP consumption on SAG, green tide and other stratagems,
so freebooterz would be a clear winner here.

Never considered freebooterz banner before, but it is so powerful in tournaments and games
where Kill Points also give you VP. I struggle with Grot morale all the time and this game kinda opened my eyes.

Couple pics (SAG were proxies sorry)
Spoiler:

Deployment:

Eldar’s first turn charge phase:

Second turn: Tank Bustas and boyz arrived, first boyz squad resurrected:

3rd turn, right before SAG annihilates reapers.

From turn 2 to 5 warboss fought in the far corner vs 15 rangers until Farseer arrived and smite him:



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/19 12:18:47


Post by: CaptainO


 flandarz wrote:
If you're just doing it for funsies, then I won't stand in your way. Just bear in mind that this is the "competitive" thread. So, we're giving you competitive advice. If you're looking to bank in the SB WLT, you might want to consider bringing some Killa Kanz along too. Maybe drop the Nobs and bring them along. Between the KFF and the WLT, they might actually put in some work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, wanna point out that although your Grots will be hitting on 3+ in the shooting phase and 4+ in the fighting phase, the S3 of their guns and the S2 of their attacks means you'll be getting, at best, a 4+ to Wound at range and a 5+ to Wound in CC. Not worth it.


I appreciate the suggestions. It’s no harm to try new things. These friendly games will act as a testing ground for stuff I might take in my itc list. . Normally I run evil suns and bad moonz. I’m basically looking at taking the new itc secondary king of the hill with the snakebites grots. When you remove the morale checks then it takes a huge amount of fire power to shift them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/19 13:26:49


Post by: flandarz


Not a problem, buddy. Have fun and see what works. I do the same thing.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/20 06:56:56


Post by: Singleton Mosby


CaptainO wrote:
I appreciate the suggestions. It’s no harm to try new things. These friendly games will act as a testing ground for stuff I might take in my itc list. . Normally I run evil suns and bad moonz. I’m basically looking at taking the new itc secondary king of the hill with the snakebites grots. When you remove the morale checks then it takes a huge amount of fire power to shift them.


Currious how it works. I am testing some new things myself next week:

- Deafskull Chinork with nobz (7*kustom shoota / 2*combi-rokkit + ammo runt).
I start to like nobz because they are ok at both shooting and CC. I guess the ammount of shooting might do something. For the rokkits I have two rerolls so they can be usefull. When the chinork dies the nobz will get a 3+ save and thus are quite sturdy on the ground and in CC as well).

- Deafskull Battlewagon with nobz (7*kustom shoota / 2*combi-rokkit + ammo runt) and 10 shoota boyz.
Same as above in a slower but little bit more sturdy transport with some addional boyz. 54 S4 shots might do something

- Warbuggies
They are crap. But since no one thinks them worthwhile to shoot at they have done some good work in my last games. Either grab objectives or charge into small infantry squads (worked well against eldar). They are dirt cheap so you don't care if they are destroyed.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/20 21:46:22


Post by: Emicrania


 Fan67 wrote:
Played against highly competitive Eldars yesterday.
Spoiler:


== Battalion Detachment == Craftworlds, <Alaitoc> [1145 pts] +5 CP

HQ: Autarch (65), Star Glaive (6), Forceshield (6), Faolchu's Wing (Relic) = [77 pts] – Warlord: Puritanical Leader
HQ: Warlock Skyrunner (65), Twin Shuriken Catapult (2) = [67 pts] – Psychic Powers: Protect/Jinx

TR: 8 Storm Guardians (48), 8 Chainswords (0) = [48 pts]
TR: 5 Rangers (60) = [60 pts]
TR: 5 Rangers (60) = [60 pts]

HS: 10 Dark Reapers (120), Exarch (0), 9 Reaper Launchers (198), Tempest Launcher (27) = [345 pts]

DT: Wave Serpent (120), Twin Shuriken Cannon (17), Shuriken Cannon (10), Spirit Stones (10), Vectored Engines (10) = [167 pts]

FL: Crimson Hunter (120), 2 Bright Lances (40) = [160 pts]
FL: Crimson Hunter Exarch (135), 2 Starcannons (26) = [161 pts]

== Battalion Detachment == Craftworlds, <Alaitoc> [298 pts] +5 CP

HQ: Spiritseer (65) = [65 pts] – Psychic Powers: Conceal/Reveal
HQ: Spiritseer (65) = [65 pts] – Psychic Powers: Protect/Jinx

TR: 8 Storm Guardians (48), 8 Chainswords (0) = [48 pts]
TR: 5 Rangers (60) = [60 pts]
TR: 5 Rangers (60) = [60 pts]

== Outrider Specialist Detachment == Craftworlds, Windrider Host, <Alaitoc> [557 pts] 0 CP

HQ: Farseer Skyrunner (130), Twin Shuriken Catapult (2) = [132pts] – Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

FA: 8 Windriders (128), 8 Scatter Lasers (56) = [184 pts]
FA: 8 Windriders (128), 8 Scatter Lasers (56) = [184 pts]
FA: Vyper (40), Scatter Laser (7), Shuriken Cannon (10) = [57 pts]

TACTICAL OBJECTIVES: Craftworlds
REFINED STRATEGIES: Advance, Domination, Blood and Guts, Orders Received


My roster was:
Spoiler:



Dawn of war, mission with intel characters.
I got first turn, and Eldar made mistake not placing one of the flyers into reserves: it received around 30 damage from Relic Shocka, but otherwise turn was lackluster. I jumped boyz and tri-pointed one of the storm guardians squad and killing the second.

His first turn was more fruitful: I placed lootas on the second floor of the ruin, while 60 Grots were on the first floor los blocked.
My opponent maneuvered windriders and with double move one of the squads moved on the second floor of the ruin in the middle of the table, so geometrically it was closer to the lootas. I lost 5 lootas to that shooting. Lost 3 more to the second squad of windriders and reapers (Grot shield yielded a lot of “1”), and rest of the lootas died from morale, hadn’t fire a single shot.
Moreover I lost 3 squads of Grots and more than a half of my boyz squad died from charges.

I did highly regret not taking Freebooterz: their relic banner would save me 3
Kill points on Grots, several lootas and I wouldn’t be forced to pay 2cp on boyz morale.

Following game I almost annihilated his army, except for farseer, autarch and 10 rangers, but he got a lot of intel victory points, 4 vp from kill point difference and accumulated 8 more VP from maelstrom (lucky draw! )

1-19 loss.

Hero of the game is Relic shocka and a squad of Tank Bustas, who brought death and destruction.
SAG killed both fliers and on a crucial turn evaporated squad of reapers with S11 and 10 shots rolled.
Tanbustas killed a lot of windriders.
Double shooting of bad moons never happened due to extreme CP consumption on SAG, green tide and other stratagems,
so freebooterz would be a clear winner here.

Never considered freebooterz banner before, but it is so powerful in tournaments and games
where Kill Points also give you VP. I struggle with Grot morale all the time and this game kinda opened my eyes.

Couple pics (SAG were proxies sorry)
Spoiler:

Deployment:

Eldar’s first turn charge phase:

Second turn: Tank Bustas and boyz arrived, first boyz squad resurrected:

3rd turn, right before SAG annihilates reapers.

From turn 2 to 5 warboss fought in the far corner vs 15 rangers until Farseer arrived and smite him:



Sick looking army dude! Great paintjob
What are those models you use for the boyz?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 02:32:25


Post by: Vineheart01


i...just realized something.

The april faq that made "as if it were that phase" rules work. I was so caught up that my Bad Moonz trait worked in overwatch now i didnt notice an even bigger bonus

Open topped and/or the Howdah both use the same wording, "in their Shooting phase". One of the largest transport changes that urked me was embarked units could not overwatch thanks to open topped specifically calling out shooting phase.
I'm not missing some weird interaction that actually denies this am i?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 02:53:56


Post by: cody.d.


I'm not going to lie, I'd like that to be the case. I guess it depends on the wording of open topped rule.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 02:58:09


Post by: Quackzo


The embarked units are not the target of the charge so they can't fire overwatch.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 03:00:56


Post by: JNAProductions


 Quackzo wrote:
The embarked units are not the target of the charge so they can't fire overwatch.
At least they're also immune to getting attacked by the charger too, then.

So if a Teryn Knight charges your Truck and kicks it to death, then uses their Fight Again strat, ain't no kicking your Boyz!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 04:35:06


Post by: koooaei


It's not kicking boyz even after the fight again strat. Cause it cant hit what it hasn't charged


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 04:40:44


Post by: tneva82


And that's why thev can't overwatch


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 11:55:36


Post by: Emicrania


Than a question pop up here, can they charge those inside the veichle or not because they are not on the board?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 12:31:37


Post by: tneva82


No. Units in transports don't exist at all except for specific exceptions. There is no exception that allows them as target for charge.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 14:35:24


Post by: JNAProductions


 koooaei wrote:
It's not kicking boyz even after the fight again strat. Cause it cant hit what it hasn't charged
That's exactly what I said.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 15:12:46


Post by: Vineheart01


technically it could couldnt it?
After the transport blows up and is removed the unit that charged it consolidates into the now disembarked unit. Fighting again strats happen at the end of the phase.
Or is there a clause that prevents that such as "unit you charged" or has to attack same unit twice? I never use that stratagem as im either mopping the unit up in the first place or attacking with a mob that is unlikely to do damage anyway.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 15:28:58


Post by: JNAProductions


 Vineheart01 wrote:
technically it could couldnt it?
After the transport blows up and is removed the unit that charged it consolidates into the now disembarked unit. Fighting again strats happen at the end of the phase.
Or is there a clause that prevents that such as "unit you charged" or has to attack same unit twice? I never use that stratagem as im either mopping the unit up in the first place or attacking with a mob that is unlikely to do damage anyway.


On the turn you charge, you can ONLY attack units you declared a charge against. That's a general rule, not a stratagem specific one.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 15:32:50


Post by: Vineheart01


Ahhh gotcha. Good to know so i can avoid that scenario.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 20:20:24


Post by: tneva82


Mind you though that if transport(say bonebreaka) charges up and gets destroyed the ENEMY unit CAN attack the unit that disembarked unit with fight again stratagem or by still not have attacked provided they have enemy unit within 1"(can't be disembarked as that can't come within 1" enemy. However enemy can then pile in into the disembarked squad and attack).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 21:16:06


Post by: Vineheart01


thats literally the opposite what was just stated, and i looked up the rule just to be sure
In the Fight Phase rules under Choose Targets it says "Models that charged this turn can only target enemy units they charged in the previous phase"

No, they cannot even if they never got to swing because like stated earlier units embarked do not exist and thus cannot be the target of a charge.
The embarked unit can totally swing if someone is dumb enough to consolidate into them, since they did not charge and thus ignore that restriction.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 21:29:13


Post by: Thayme


He is saying if YOU charge with a transport and it dies, the enemy can attack your squad that falls out of the tranport.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 21:29:38


Post by: Vineheart01


Ah, right, nvm me


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/21 21:29:49


Post by: Elfric


Has anyone had any success with big blobs of MANZ? Shame about the recent FAQ because the thought of 2 x 10 MANZ mobbing up, getting warpath and then Da Jump is anything but settle. Not sure what can kill 60 wounds with a 2+ before it assaults you.

I have quite a lot of MANZ and I am thinking the best way to run them is either Evil Sunz or Freebootaz (benefiting from the +1 to hit Kultur ability).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/22 05:44:44


Post by: Gitdakka


 Elfric wrote:
Has anyone had any success with big blobs of MANZ? Shame about the recent FAQ because the thought of 2 x 10 MANZ mobbing up, getting warpath and then Da Jump is anything but settle. Not sure what can kill 60 wounds with a 2+ before it assaults you.

I have quite a lot of MANZ and I am thinking the best way to run them is either Evil Sunz or Freebootaz (benefiting from the +1 to hit Kultur ability).


They have very fat bases, so you will rarely get more than 5-7 into combat. If the enemy hides in ruins 3nd floor you are lucky to get 3 MANZ into combat. Their low speed is also an issue if you fail the initial charge. So there was not much point mpbbing them up anyways.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/22 05:46:54


Post by: tneva82


Except with one big mob you could have thrown 20 of them other side of the board with +1A each and engage multiple threats at once. It was having some success in tournaments before the nerf so can't be totally bonker idea.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/22 08:07:53


Post by: Jidmah


Ork players need to drop the mindset of MANZ being deathstar that destroys anything they touch.
All instances of them being run successfully in tournaments use them to bully infantry or vehicles off objectives and take them for themselves, which is how all TEQ are used in 8th edition. Their power comes from their durability, not from their offensive strength.

While not very orky, denying VP to your opponent and collecting some yourself is much more likely to win you games than outright smashing stuff. Having ~6 surviving MANZ sitting on an objective and do nothing might feel wrong, but it is doing a lot towards winning you the game.

So I don't think that there is a need for mob up as 10 MANZ will already do that job pretty nicely, two units of MANZ have some nice redundancy in case you fail a charge even if they cost twice as many CP to deep strike.
T1 jumping any number is just throwing away lots of points to clear screens, as any plasma gun and krak grenades and worst case some character or knight in the enemy army is going to kill themselves some MANz while the bulk of your army is not in range yet.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/22 08:19:53


Post by: tneva82


Well if durability is their selling point then just forget it. MAN is not tough.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/22 08:36:40


Post by: Jidmah


Apparently there were lots of big tournaments last week, with two orks placing third, one fourth and one fifth. While were are not low-tier at all, it's obvious that orks struggle to place first anywhere. Also, Nick Nanavati seems to have given up on the "most powerful army in the game" and switched to GSC, placing first with them.

Both third placed player were running 3 units of boyz, SSAG, 15 lootas, "the weird 32" battalion.
One third-placing player had 3 units of 5 storm boyz, smasha guns, three warbosses and two KFF meks on bikes,
The other third place was running two dakka jets and a wazzbom blastajet instead.

The most intersting list comes from the fourth placed ork player from china:
- 2x boyz
- 30 Stormboyz
- Snikrot
- Deffkilla Wartrike (Bloodaxe!)
- 2x 5 Kommandoz
- 2x Megatrakk Scapjet
- Trukk (no clue what he put in there, either gretchin or kommandoz)
- Burna bommer
- Dakkajet
- Wazzbom Blastajet
- NO Lootaz, mek guns or SSAG

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/bqw4q5/pandas_weekend_rundown_may_1819/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
Well if durability is their selling point then just forget it. MAN is not tough.


People doing way better than you in tournaments seem to disagree.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/22 09:47:08


Post by: addnid


I own several scrapjets and I just don't get it, how do they work without being taken by the dozen ? They are easy to take out, they don't shoot very far so they need to get into that 24 inch "great danger range". They deal decent damage so long as they don't shoot on a -1 to hit target.

So how does 2 scrapjets help in his list ? They cost 110 per piece !!

Edit: ah so blood axe scrapjets for that cover save while 18 inch away. Still not convinced, but I want to be !

Honestly though all these ork lists don't stand a chance against any my GSC lists for example... Perhaps they had good match ups i dunno


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/22 10:29:24


Post by: Emicrania


addnid wrote:
I own several scrapjets and I just don't get it, how do they work without being taken by the dozen ? They are easy to take out, they don't shoot very far so they need to get into that 24 inch "great danger range". They deal decent damage so long as they don't shoot on a -1 to hit target.

So how does 2 scrapjets help in his list ? They cost 110 per piece !!

Edit: ah so blood axe scrapjets for that cover save while 18 inch away. Still not convinced, but I want to be !

Honestly though all these ork lists don't stand a chance against any my GSC lists for example... Perhaps they had good match ups i dunno


Got a tournament with my freebooterz at the end of this month and will face some gsc for sure. I never met them before; any tip on how to counter them? What are the gsc weakness?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/22 10:44:47


Post by: CaptainO


Played a 2000 point tournament practice game last night against a black legion and red corsairs list. We played an eternal war, maelstrom bastardisation in prep for a local tournament. The maelstrom mission was cloak and shadow which meant it was -1 to hit outside 18". Normally I play ITC missions and while it was interesting using the tactical objectives and the night fighting rule mixed things up the mishmash of rules are definitely going to cause complications during the tournament. There is no fat on the ITC rules and in a competition I personally think they're better.

My list was as follows
Spoiler:

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Orks) [81 PL, 1,439pts, -1CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

+ HQ [18 PL, 327pts, -1CP] +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 75pts]: Choppa, Kustom Force Field [20pts]

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]

Warboss [4 PL, 70pts]: Attack Squig, Big Choppa [5pts], Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Shoota (Index)

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts, -1CP]: Warphead [-1CP]

+ Troops [29 PL, 524pts] +

Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]: 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [203pts]

Boyz [11 PL, 154pts]: 2x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Slugga
. 21x Ork Boy W/ Shoota [147pts]

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Choppa
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [63pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

+ Elites [13 PL, 206pts] +

Kommandos [2 PL, 53pts]
. Boss Nob [21pts]: Power Klaw [13pts]
. 2x Kommando [16pts]
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Kustom Shoota [2pts]

Nobz [7 PL, 76pts]
. Boss Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]
. Nob [17pts]: Choppa, Power Stabba [3pts]
. Nob [14pts]: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob [14pts]: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob [14pts]: Choppa, Choppa

+ Fast Attack [6 PL, 117pts] +

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 39pts]
. DeffKopta [39pts]: Bigbomm (Index), Kustom Mega-blasta [9pts]

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 39pts]
. DeffKopta [39pts]: Bigbomm (Index), Kustom Mega-blasta [9pts]

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 39pts]
. DeffKopta [39pts]: Bigbomm (Index), Kustom Mega-blasta [9pts]

+ Heavy Support [12 PL, 201pts] +

Battlewagon [8 PL, 139pts]: 'ard Case, Deff Rolla [19pts]

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [3 PL, 64pts] +

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota [5pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [27 PL, 561pts, -2CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [-2CP] +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins [-1CP]

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh! [-1CP]

+ HQ [8 PL, 152pts] +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 80pts]: Big Killa Boss, Da Souped-up Shokka, Shokk Attack Gun [25pts], Warlord

Warboss [4 PL, 72pts]: Attack Squig, Big Choppa [5pts], Kustom Shoota [2pts]

+ Troops [3 PL, 90pts] +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

+ Heavy Support [13 PL, 255pts] +

Lootas [13 PL, 255pts]
. 15x Loota [255pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [3 PL, 64pts] +

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota [5pts]

++ Total: [108 PL, -3CP, 2,000pts] +


I'll try to get his full list and post it but from memory
Spoiler:


3 x 10ish red corsairs with heavy weapons for the extra 3 CP
A predator
A shooty Defiler
A Land Raider
A sorcerer
A Dark apostle
An executioner
A Chaos Lord
A Chaos Lord in terminator armour
A Sorcerer in terminator armour
Between 7-10 undivided terminators (he was able to use the slanesh double shoot strat on them)

He is hoping to replace the land raider with a second Defiler



He had way fewer drops than me. He put all the terminators in deepstrike while I put my deffkoptas and Kommandos into reserve. I actually forgot to deploy the 21 boyz squad so just paid the 2 Cp to deep strike them to keep it honest.

It was the classic Dawn of War deployment. I was able to nickle and dime him with low cost units like the grot gunz and gretchin squads so got to see where he put his juicy targets. He deployed along the line while I decided to "castle up" on my back left with 90% of my deployed stuff within 18" of my kff. He finished deploying so go the +1 but I still won the roll off and got to go first.

My T1:
I popped the 18" KFF strat. Moved my lootas forward (they were already hitting on 6s thanks to the night fighting so I wanted to get them within 18" so they could hit on 5s) and pushed my battlewagon (which had 10 grots, 5 nobs, a waagh nob and Evil sunz warboss) and truck (which contained 10 grots and the badmoonz warboss) as well as the deffkilla wartrike to the centre/right.

I mobbed up the 30 and 10 man squads then cast warpath and then Da jumped them onto his right flank while covering an objective.

I used Extra dakk and the Vigalus shoot twice strat on my SSAG who killed the predator (thanks to the big killa WLT) and took 6 Ws off the land raider. The lootas rolled a 1 for shots...3 times ( I rerolled to no avail) and did minimal damage to the land raider.

I assaulted the 40 man squad into the shooty defiler bracketing it and managed to tag the land raider in consolidation but I wrapped the defiler. I got first strike.

His T1:

He pulled the landraider back after deploying its cargo. He cast some stuff. He shot all his heavy weapons into the battle wagon which only lost 5 wounds. He shot a load of bolters into a squad of grots but they had the 5++ from the KFF so left 2. He charged an executioner and an infantry squad into the (no longer 40 but still over 20) squad of boyz. He killed a few but in return they brought the defiler down to 3 wounds, and took 3 wounds off the executioner (who killed 8 boyz thanks to his mortal wound causing axe. I used 2 CP to autopass the grots preventing him from getting first strike.

My T2:
I deployed my Nobz, warboss and grots out of the battlewagon and within easy charge range of his line, moved the deff killa wartrike within range of his lines. I held back my reserves because in all honesty I didnt need it. I da jumped the weird boyz so he could charge (in hindsight I should have da jumped the grots nearby to limit his deepstrike ability). In shooting the SSAG finished off the Land raider while the lootas again to very little due to their halved BS. In assault I charged the Evil sunz warboss, nobz, deffkilla wartrike, weirdboy and battlewagon into his red corsairs infantry. I killed 2, 8 and 5 guys as well as the Defiler and executioner. He autopassed the squad that lost 8.

His T2;
He brought the squad that lost 8 back using the red corsair strat and moved his dark apostle, sorcerer and warlord to attack my deffkilla wartrike and warboss. He then deep struck all his termies on my right flank. He buffed them with prescience and used the shoot twice strat. The Terminators shooting killed 1 mek gun, the battlewagon the bad moonz truck and the 5 nobs. He assaulted my deffkilla wartrike with the sorcerer and warlord but failed to kill them. The wartrike killed the sorcerer in return. HIs termie blob got the objective them landed near.

My T3:
I pulled everything I could away from the right flank where his terminators were. I pulled the badly wounded wartrike and weirdboy out of combat. I dropped my reserves away from the terminators but thanks to the moved distance of the deffkilla wartrikes was happy I could swoop to any objectives I needed. I deployed the 21 boyz near the weirdboyz so that if needed they could da jump wherever. My SSAG and Lootas took shots at the regenerated infantry squad from afar. In the assault I wiped his infantry and 2 characters.

His T3:
He was limited to his 4" termie move and had limited targets (all at -1 to hit). At this stage we called it. While he had 450 worth of terminators left they were miles away from any other objectives (they'd already scored the one they were on) and was further from any targets.




No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/22 10:52:40


Post by: Jidmah


addnid wrote:
I own several scrapjets and I just don't get it, how do they work without being taken by the dozen ? They are easy to take out, they don't shoot very far so they need to get into that 24 inch "great danger range". They deal decent damage so long as they don't shoot on a -1 to hit target.

So how does 2 scrapjets help in his list ? They cost 110 per piece !!

Edit: ah so blood axe scrapjets for that cover save while 18 inch away. Still not convinced, but I want to be !

Honestly though all these ork lists don't stand a chance against any my GSC lists for example... Perhaps they had good match ups i dunno


Most of those tournaments run 5 rounds and the fields have become very diverse with the castellan getting toned down, so your opponent for the first two games could pretty much be anything. Until the meta settles down from being shaken up by the FAQ, being able to handle as many different enemies as possible is more likely to bring you to the top tables. In addition, if GSC is the new hotness many people might not have their army ready yet.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/22 10:54:06


Post by: CaptainO


Overall it was a good learning experience. a 40 boy squad with warpath can cause damage and can easily wrap. They did eventually kill the defiler but MANZ would have been much better suited. This was not the first time the normal Nobz got obliterated by return fire. The battlewagon did ok but I'm looking at dropping it and using the points for MANZ.

I literally forgot to deploy the 21 boyz so had to pay 2CP to telaport them. I should have deployed them at the start and then given my weirdboy a second unit to da jump in turn dominating more of the board before my opponent could drop his termies.

The lootas were pretty underwhelming but in their defense the night fighting halved their ability.

The SSAG combo'd with the Big killa WLT, the more dakka (dakka dakka on 5s) strat and the Vigalus shoot twice strat was awesome as per usual


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/23 14:44:26


Post by: CaptainO


Do people exclusively run MANZ as Evil Sunz to ensure they get the +1 to charge?

I'm half considering loading 7 Bad moonz MANZ up in a battlewagon with 5 Kommandos and a blunderbus warboss. They'd either push straight up the board and put out a reasonable amount of firepower or I could teleport the battewagon in for 2CP. The MANZ and Blunderbus boss can put out a pretty reasonable amount of firepower (2d6 S5 autohits + 28 S4 reroll 1s). The battlewagon could then use the ramming speed strat to get into cc. I've no illusions that the wagon would be blown up but the bare bones Kommandos would take those wounds (hopefully leaving the two index burnas to deter any charges along with the blunderbus boss).

TLDR Running MANZ as something other than Evil Sunz yes or no.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/23 14:46:33


Post by: Vineheart01


I miss using my MANz as a trukk-missile, theyve been on a shelf since 8th began.

Also side note CaptionO: Blunderboss is 3D6 autohits because it replaces the "Shoota" profile and you can fire both combi profiles at a -1 to hit penalty...oh wait autohits who cares...so you still have the standard Skorcha too - theres a slight range difference you gotta pay attention to but otherwise same exact profile.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/23 15:11:40


Post by: CaptainO


 Vineheart01 wrote:
I miss using my MANz as a trukk-missile, theyve been on a shelf since 8th began.

Also side note CaptionO: Blunderboss is 3D6 autohits because it replaces the "Shoota" profile and you can fire both combi profiles at a -1 to hit penalty...oh wait autohits who cares...so you still have the standard Skorcha too - theres a slight range difference you gotta pay attention to but otherwise same exact profile.


Very cool. I don't really have the +15Points for the kombi skorcha but if I'll see if I can find it. Best thing about the 12" is that it can shoot after deep striking (either within a open topped vehicle or on foot).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/23 15:12:48


Post by: Jidmah


CaptainO wrote:
Do people exclusively run MANZ as Evil Sunz to ensure they get the +1 to charge?

I'm half considering loading 7 Bad moonz MANZ up in a battlewagon with 5 Kommandos and a blunderbus warboss. They'd either push straight up the board and put out a reasonable amount of firepower or I could teleport the battewagon in for 2CP. The MANZ and Blunderbus boss can put out a pretty reasonable amount of firepower (2d6 S5 autohits + 28 S4 reroll 1s). The battlewagon could then use the ramming speed strat to get into cc. I've no illusions that the wagon would be blown up but the bare bones Kommandos would take those wounds (hopefully leaving the two index burnas to deter any charges along with the blunderbus boss).

TLDR Running MANZ as something other than Evil Sunz yes or no.


I wouldn't run MANz in battlewagons, as it's pretty easy to destroy 1-2 per turn. If you put MANz inside one of them, they will be stranded in you deployment zone alongside your warboss, as they are the biggest threat on the board. Even if they are not evil suns, tellyporting them in is probably the best solution, as there is no better way to deliver them to where they can have impact on the game or keep them safe until they matter. The whole idea is using T1 and T2 to remove as many threats to them as possible with lootas and/or mek guns and deploy them to where they help you win the game.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/24 02:48:09


Post by: flandarz


Since I ain't got Battlescribe on my phone, I'll just give you guys a run-down from memory on a list I built up.

Freebooter DREADWAAGH Battalion

SSAG w/Ammo Runt
Weirdboy (Da Jump)
3x10 Gretchin
Gorkanaut
MekaDread w/Rippa, Zzappa, and KFF
8 Flashgitz w/Ammo Runt
1 FG Kaptin with Gitfinda and Choppa
Trukk

Freebooter Battalion

2x Big Mek w/KFF and Ammo Runt
Kaptin Badrukk w/Ammo Runt
3x10 Gretchin
2x 3 Smashas
2x Dakkajet w/6 Gunz

Basic strategy is to start with the Gork and Dread in a Tellyporta. Smashas deployed in 2 groups, with a Big Mek in the middle. Weirdboy and SSAG deployed behind the Gretchin bubble. Gitz and Badrukk go into the Trukk. Use the Jets and Smashas to proc the +1 for everything else. Da Jump Gretchin onto Objectives, as needed. Pull the Gork and Dread out of Tellyport to handle any large threats. List is mostly based around shooting (obviously) but both the Gork and Dread can put in some CC work, if needed. And the Gitz aren't slouches in CC either. Especially if the Trukk pops and I Loot It to give them a 3+ Save.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/24 08:32:29


Post by: Levski


 flandarz wrote:
Since I ain't got Battlescribe on my phone, I'll just give you guys a run-down from memory on a list I built up.

Freebooter DREADWAAGH Battalion

SSAG w/Ammo Runt
Weirdboy (Da Jump)
3x10 Gretchin
Gorkanaut
MekaDread w/Rippa, Zzappa, and KFF
8 Flashgitz w/Ammo Runt
1 FG Kaptin with Gitfinda and Choppa
Trukk

Freebooter Battalion

2x Big Mek w/KFF and Ammo Runt
Kaptin Badrukk w/Ammo Runt
3x10 Gretchin
2x 3 Smashas
2x Dakkajet w/6 Gunz

Basic strategy is to start with the Gork and Dread in a Tellyporta. Smashas deployed in 2 groups, with a Big Mek in the middle. Weirdboy and SSAG deployed behind the Gretchin bubble. Gitz and Badrukk go into the Trukk. Use the Jets and Smashas to proc the +1 for everything else. Da Jump Gretchin onto Objectives, as needed. Pull the Gork and Dread out of Tellyport to handle any large threats. List is mostly based around shooting (obviously) but both the Gork and Dread can put in some CC work, if needed. And the Gitz aren't slouches in CC either. Especially if the Trukk pops and I Loot It to give them a 3+ Save.


Hah, thats very similar to a list I'm taking to a small 24man tournament on monday. Mines 1750 so i haven't got the Gork, Meka or Smashas, but I do have 15 Lootas. Really interested to see how it will play out.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/24 09:12:22


Post by: CaptainO


 Jidmah wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
Do people exclusively run MANZ as Evil Sunz to ensure they get the +1 to charge?

I'm half considering loading 7 Bad moonz MANZ up in a battlewagon with 5 Kommandos and a blunderbus warboss. They'd either push straight up the board and put out a reasonable amount of firepower or I could teleport the battewagon in for 2CP. The MANZ and Blunderbus boss can put out a pretty reasonable amount of firepower (2d6 S5 autohits + 28 S4 reroll 1s). The battlewagon could then use the ramming speed strat to get into cc. I've no illusions that the wagon would be blown up but the bare bones Kommandos would take those wounds (hopefully leaving the two index burnas to deter any charges along with the blunderbus boss).

TLDR Running MANZ as something other than Evil Sunz yes or no.


I wouldn't run MANz in battlewagons, as it's pretty easy to destroy 1-2 per turn. If you put MANz inside one of them, they will be stranded in you deployment zone alongside your warboss, as they are the biggest threat on the board. Even if they are not evil suns, tellyporting them in is probably the best solution, as there is no better way to deliver them to where they can have impact on the game or keep them safe until they matter. The whole idea is using T1 and T2 to remove as many threats to them as possible with lootas and/or mek guns and deploy them to where they help you win the game.


My logic is that the battelwagon would give the MANZ additional survivability. If I deploy them at the start the MANZ won't be accessible until its blown up and the (relatively) cheap kommandos can act as ablative wounds. Then when (and I know its a when) it gets blown up I can use the weirdboy to da jump them. I wouldn't da jump them untill I've cleared the chaff with my 2 x 40boyz squads (after mobbing up), 15 lootas and SSAG so T2/T3 anyway. It gives me the option of Teleporting the battlewagon and then using the 3d6 strat is a good way to get into the tau lines. Again when it blows up I then have a unit right in a gunlines face.

I could possibly switch around some units and have the MANZ as Evil Sunz for that sweet 8" charge but they'd lose the option of hiding in the truck, lose the reroll 1s and the way my restructuring would work I'd have to find 40 points elsewhere. I'd be able to teleport the MANZ as either Bad Moonz or Evil Sunz.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/24 10:35:20


Post by: tneva82


If oyu want to keep them safe until da jump just put them out of LOS. There's not THAT much MAN killing indirect fire weapons. Basilisk being about only one of note.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/24 12:01:05


Post by: Jidmah


CaptainO wrote:
My logic is that the battelwagon would give the MANZ additional survivability. If I deploy them at the start the MANZ won't be accessible until its blown up and the (relatively) cheap kommandos can act as ablative wounds. Then when (and I know its a when) it gets blown up I can use the weirdboy to da jump them. I wouldn't da jump them untill I've cleared the chaff with my 2 x 40boyz squads (after mobbing up), 15 lootas and SSAG so T2/T3 anyway.

But that means you are using 200+ points just to protect them. Those point could just as well get you 3 units of gretchin and two weirdboyz/KFF meks to gain 5 CP and use two of those to tellyport in the MANz - especially if you are planning to hold them back until turn 2 or 3.
Anytime I run battlewagons, one or two turn into craters turn one and the ones with obvious targets in them will always go first. Unless you have some nauts or other vehicles in their face turn 1 like a wartrike or planes to draw fire from them, the MANz will lose their transport turn one as they are the biggest threat on the board. You really don't gain anything from that.
If you really want MANz in battlewagons, spread them around. Put 5 MANz and 10 gretchin in one battlewagon and the same in another. Put your warboss in a third transport to make it difficult for your opponent to decide which one to stop first, your chance of one of them reaching enemy lines is much higher.

It gives me the option of Teleporting the battlewagon and then using the 3d6 strat is a good way to get into the tau lines. Again when it blows up I then have a unit right in a gunlines face.

Tellyporting in a transport is a pretty bad idea in general since your expensive unit cannot disembark until the next turn, allowing them to surround the transport and blow it up. Even if they don't do it perfectly, the MANz big bases will cause some to die.

I could possibly switch around some units and have the MANZ as Evil Sunz for that sweet 8" charge but they'd lose the option of hiding in the truck, lose the reroll 1s and the way my restructuring would work I'd have to find 40 points elsewhere. I'd be able to teleport the MANZ as either Bad Moonz or Evil Sunz.

It really doesn't matter whether you tellyport or jump them, +1 to charge, move and advance is great for them no matter what. Getting to re-rolls ones for seven kustom shootas doesn't really compare.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/24 12:05:05


Post by: CaptainO


tneva82 wrote:
If oyu want to keep them safe until da jump just put them out of LOS. There's not THAT much MAN killing indirect fire weapons. Basilisk being about only one of note.


Fair point. Where I’ll deploy them will depend on who I’m playing. Im assuming you’re pro putting them evil sunz so?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/24 12:26:19


Post by: flandarz


If you feel like this is gonna work, go for it. Everyone else has already said their piece on it, so I won't reiterate except to say that it's not "optimized". That said, not a huge fan of MANz anyway. Even just in our own Faction we got so many AP- guns with lots of shots (Flash Gitz and Lootaz come to mind). Best use I can think for them would be to be Da Jumped to an Objective in Cover and be really difficult to remove while they sit there. They have lackluster shooting, because Orkz, and even their CC ain't the best since their Klawz give them a -1 to-hit. Their only claim to fame is their real good Save.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/24 14:40:22


Post by: mhalko1


The Freebooter Kultur is +1 to hit correct? (after killing a unit) Does it combo well with more dakka for triggering more hits on 4+ or does it have to be a natural 5+ to trigger DDD.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/24 15:01:43


Post by: flandarz


It has to be a natural 5+.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread (8th edition codex post FAQ) @ 2019/05/24 20:22:36


Post by: CaptainO


Anyone ever use loot it on MANZ?