My question to you is how much do you disclose to your opponent in a tournament?

There seems to be three options:
#1. Take the time tell them all of your special rules and abilities of your units.
#2. Hit just the important parts of the rules
#3. Have them learn the hard way

Here are 2 quick examples:
The first one is the Avatar who is immune to Flamers and Melta weaponry.
The other example is Warp Spiders who can do a warp jump move in the assault phase.

Do I disclose their abilities to my opponent, or have them learn the hard way?

So do I educate the new players, or the fact that you know the rules to other armies is just one of the things that separate the good players from the bad players?

Are people actually showing up to tournaments not knowing the basic abilities of mainstream armies?

Anyone who doesnt know such basics as the flamer/melta resistant Avatar deserves to learn the hard way. You ether study the enemies book or learn from playing them. Its that simple.

In a tournament you learn the hard way.

Showing up without doing your homework will get your behind spanked.....as it should be. It is no different from showing up with a subpar list or playing all day without eating anything.
It is simply a bad idea and you will by punished for it.

Yeah I have the same thing when I use the Deceiver. In casual games I will tell my opponents but in tournaments, no way. I seriously can't count the amount of games I have won with my opponent saying, "But I didn't know it ignores invulnerable saves."

I'll ask my opponent if they're generally familiar with my army, and summarize any army-wide special rules. As I deploy each unit I'll generally also tell my opponent what upgrades/weapons they have. I won't take the time to go into individual unit special abilities unless my opponent asks.

I was at a tourney recently and decided I had to tell my opponent my Deff Koptas scouted. I had a complex unit of 5 all with buzz saws. He was setting up as close as possible with DE.

Didn't matter as he missed guessed their range and they killed literally 5 raiders/ravagers in the first turn.

I try to explain anything beforehand, personally, rather than have it become a point of contention during the course of the game...I'd rather have my opponent not feel ''cheated'' because I suddenly give a 3+ invuln. save to my battle sisters at the start of his assault. but I prefer as much of a challenge as possible; for me it makes for a more ''epic'' retelling of the game later, win or lose. but I played other games where people locally were more about winning than having fun, and I got kinda bored with that, so...

I generally explain anything that isn't abundantly clear - basically anything that is more or less unusual about the army. With my Wolves I take the time to tell them what Mark of the Wulfen does, the amount of close combat damage my Grey Hunters can do, and so on. If they're new to the game I'll let them know what everything does, but most people can generally tell what's what.

Must be fun to win off ignorance, and not skill.

i generally explain friendly or tournament play, when asked. I usually ask during set up and what not, but i try to maintain a general knowledge of most armies.

I ask if they know the army. If they say yes, I don't tell them much. If they say no, I go through every unit's rules during deployment.

All it costs me is time; it's hard for most players to assimilate, say, the Swarmlord's rules, and understand their implications. But they can't protest ignorance, and most people seem to appreciate it. (It's good for my soft scores, too.)

With one off games with folks I don't really know, I explain units as I'm placing them on the table.

For tourneys, I pretty much do the same thing. I don't explain every nuance as there are time limits to a tourney. Plus, they have a copy of my armylist and can read my codex at any point. If they have questions, I always explain it to my opponent.

Maybe that is why my soft scores are so bad.

When I played my 3rd edition Thousand Sons I told everyone their many special rules.

Now these days I have forgotten to tell my opponents the special rules and it seems to make them unhappy. I was playing a Space Marine army and shot it up and he chose to break during his morale roll in the shooting phase. He thought he was safe until I moved my warp spyders next to him in the assault phase and escorted them off of the board.


In my defense, he did not tell me that they could fall back voluntarily. (I am not a space marine player and after he did it I remembered that they can do something like that)

To me I see two options you can not tell me and whoop him because you have supa units that he doesn't understand and forever be known as the douchebag who wins, douchebag being key part. or you can tell him at the very least the important stuff and be seen as the guy who plays fair. and if you're not going to tell me you're special rules you'd better have your codex on you to show me because I'll wanna see it.

TheBlackVanguard wrote:To me I see two options you can not tell me and whoop him because you have supa units that he doesn't understand and forever be known as the douchebag who wins, douchebag being key part. or you can tell him at the very least the important stuff and be seen as the guy who plays fair. and if you're not going to tell me you're special rules you'd better have your codex on you to show me because I'll wanna see it.

I don't think anyone is advocating not answering questions; the question is just how much you volunteer.

I tell my opponent the capabilities of anything and everything in my army beforehand, I even put the special weapons/sergeants on top of the rhino to show what is inside.

It irks me somewhat to see that people willingly use deceit to gain the upper hand, it's not my style but i'm not going to judge either, but i'll say I don't like to suddenly find out something that should have been disclosed before.

Dravenguild wrote:I tell my opponent the capabilities of anything and everything in my army beforehand, I even put the special weapons/sergeants on top of the rhino to show what is inside.

It irks me somewhat to see that people willingly use deceit to gain the upper hand, it's not my style but i'm not going to judge either, but i'll say I don't like to suddenly find out something that should have been disclosed before.

I don't think we are talking about deceit. I never try to deceive my opponents. If someone asks me about a unit I will go into detail about their rules, but if they don't ask I won't.

Should someone know what a warp spyder does?

Thinking back on almost all of my many tournament games I do not think that anyone has ever explained their special rules to me.

Sometimes I am playing someone and I know their army and rules better then they do, but I am bad with some armies rules like Space Marines, and everyone expects you to know them.

combatmedic wrote:Anyone who doesnt know such basics as the flamer/melta resistant Avatar deserves to learn the hard way. You ether study the enemies book or learn from playing them. Its that simple.

I have read all the codexes, but I've never actually played a Dark Eldar army. I wouldn't be able to remember every DE rule and weapon if thrown into a game against a DE army. Does this mean i should be punished? Punished for not memorising every codex in print?

No. I don't think it should be a prerequisite to know every rule for every army before you're allowed to compete.

I would ask them if they're familiar with my army, and if not, outline all the basic big rules for them. I wouldn't go into extreme detail unless they asked, not for game winning purposes but because of time constraints

In a tourney, if he asks, I'll tell. Otherwise, it's really his fault.
A friendly game is different, and I'll happily disclose any information I think they need to know if I'm aware that they're not familiar with my army.

I'll generally check if my opponent is familiar with the army, give a quick refresher on unusual things (Chooser of the Slain, for example) and - most importantly - allow my opponent free access to my army list and my Codex.

In a tournament, I would probably skip the refresher, but will still ask if he (of she) is familiar. The only difference is that if he says yes, I wouldn't actively offer the Codex - I'd wait for him to ask. Then again, I've never been to a tournament, so... *shrug*

In friendly games with basicly unlimited time, thats where I will happily explaine every secial rule/ability of my army. In a Tourny, I give my opponents a detailed army list(Army builder with all extra/special rules added) and a breif overveiw if any of my minis need expanation(say a conversion job that is not instantly understandable). I go to tournys to meet new people and have some fun games(Herasy I know), so making sure my opponent also has fun is a consideration to me.

Either they learn the hard way or ask as they go along.

I'm very generous with my special rules. I generally lay it all on the table before the game starts. However I can see how in a competitive match it shouldn't be a requirement (unless asked).

At tourneys people play to win and taking any advantage you can. if your opponent turns up without knowing your rules and doesn't ask, that's ignorance on their part.

If I've got the first turn, I place and explain at the same time (Orks usually take a little while) assuming my opponent is good with that. I still do a quick run through of what has what for my opponent unless they ask me not to. Just common courtesy as I see it. Now, bear in mind that I'm not trying to qualify for a GT or anything. Most of my tournament games resemble the ones I play with friends for the most part.

Hmmm i think that they should learn the hard way i mean cmon if your a general do you tell your enemy your strengths and weaknesses???

I think in fantasy it's a bit different, since you don't have to reveal the abilities of magic items (or who has them). However, any non-magic item ability I will definitely explain to my opponent beforehand (such as my ward saves not being able to be used against magic attacks). I think it's just good sportsmanship to make sure they know what they're playing against... even if I keep my tactics and any magic tricks up my sleeve a secret

In a tournament, as I'm setting up, I always ask, 'So, have you played Dark Eldar before?',with a grin. If they say yes, you leave it at that, and get on with things. I always give my opponent a copy of my army list and ask to examine theirs before a game anyway so I can quickly assess and prioritise units for destruction by matching them up mentally against mine.

If they say no, I grin wickedly, say something like, 'Ah, you're in for a real treat then!', and proceed to outline the generalities of my army and weapons. I won't go into specifics unless they enquire, because

a)this is a tournament, and if they make a mistake, its good for me.
b)I can't be bothered to explain every little nuance of how my army plays in a comprehensive breakdown.

Giving your opponent a detailed tactical breakdown of your entire army is handing them a massive advantage, because you can be sure they won't do the same for you. I don't the exact ins and outs of every army out there, but I know enough to play a game well. If I make a mistake, I mentally note it for next time. That's fair play in my book.

I usually don't offer up much about my army in a tournament setting. If your playing in a tournament, you should have the experience and prior knowledge of at least the basic differences between the armies.

Not only that, but it always amazes me how people don't ask questions. I've used different powerful units over the years, and yet very few asked me how they work, their weapons, their charge ranges, etc... They have a copy of my list, I'm more than willing to give them an overview of what the unit does, yet when it does destroy a part of their army, apparently it's my fault for exploiting an advantage of my own army.

Tournament games are on a time limit, and I can't spend 10 minutes going over all the stuff in my army. I'll throw out a bit of information (fist in this squad, PW in that one, etc...) but I leave it up to my opponent to ask me about rules/units that he is not familiar with.

I play Space Marines so this isn't usu. a problem. However, I have learned the hard way during casual games against Tau (their long distance hazy-autocover/nightfight rules save thing; their autohit seeker missiles; marker lights; etc.). Any more before I target a unit, I ask if it has any special rules I need to know about.

Being more of a club gamer, I can't help but think, "Geez, the internet (or tournaments) are full of...." - Fill that in for yourselves.

This might be a surprise, but some people go to tournaments to play against a variety of new players and spend a day playing their favourite hobby...

Sometimes ignorance really is bliss...

Since 2 of my armies are rarely seen I explain some things once.

I explain how an act of faith works the first time I use it when playing sisters and I explain how some of the items work when playing DE since no one has any idea of their rules.

Ketara wrote:I won't go into specifics unless they enquire, because

a)this is a tournament, and if they make a mistake, its good for me.
b)I can't be bothered to explain every little nuance of how my army plays in a comprehensive breakdown.

Giving your opponent a detailed tactical breakdown of your entire army is handing them a massive advantage, because you can be sure they won't do the same for you. I don't the exact ins and outs of every army out there, but I know enough to play a game well. If I make a mistake, I mentally note it for next time. That's fair play in my book.

This.

For example. Aside from the odd 'proxy' game here and there I've never had a serious match against Necrons. I do know how WBB works however, plus how Tomb Spyders and Resurrection Orbs alter WBB slightly. I also know how the Living Metal rule works. I don't, however, know the exact stat line of an Immortal; but I know enough about the army in general to not get surprised during a match.

I would have though that in a tournament this level of knowledge was practically mandatory, if you're trying to win that is.

I'm a SM player, so most people are pretty familiar with my rules/units. However, if I'm running something "different" such as Calgar, Honor Guard, TFC, etc, I always tell my opponent how it works and how it applies to them. (aka "Just so you know, I can use Calgar's ability to ignore your PBS's leadership ability.") Tournament, friendly game, it doesn't really matter. I don't want to have an enjoyable game go down the crapper because my opponent fell into a "gotcha" he didn't know about.

If my opponent doesn't want to do the same for me, that's fine... I'm not too proud to not ask him about every single unit in his army. If I'm facing an army or units I'm not familar with, before we even get started, I'll ask him to give me a rundown while I'm skimming over their codex entries.

Gornall wrote:I'm a SM player, so most people are pretty familiar with my rules/units. However, if I'm running something "different" such as Calgar, Honor Guard, TFC, etc, I always tell my opponent how it works and how it applies to them. (aka "Just so you know, I can use Calgar's ability to ignore your PBS's leadership ability.") Tournament, friendly game, it doesn't really matter. I don't want to have an enjoyable game go down the crapper because my opponent fell into a "gotcha" he didn't know about.

If my opponent doesn't want to do the same for me, that's fine... I'm not too proud to not ask him about every single unit in his army. If I'm facing an army or units I'm not familar with, before we even get started, I'll ask him to give me a rundown while I'm skimming over their codex entries.

+1 good post sir

Indeed, +1 from here too ,

Even tho I have been playing since 85 , My brain cannot remember all the crap it has seen and had go thru it.

I will bloody ask about things, even now, I would consider it bad form if I was supplied only a bit of info and only to find an "ahha" during a turn.

That player I would , in fairness not be my first choice as a rematch later.

Gamesmanship, It means something.

Arander wrote:If your playing in a tournament, you should have the experience and prior knowledge of at least the basic differences between the armies.

Well, that depends on if you see tournaments as some sort of 'Elite Gamers Club where only the BEST are allowed', or if you see them as a great opportunity to meet and play different people.

I'm inclined towards the latter....

I'd clear up anything that does odd stuff before hand, but otherwise I would probably just respond if asked.

Although to be fair I probably needed to swat up on my own army at the 40K doubles in Jan. It wasn't until the final (sixth) game on the Sun and I faced a Demon/CSM combo where the Demon player was also a avid Ork player.
That It was pointed out to me that the Stormboyz go forward the extra D6 rolled to see if a boy dies on a one.

Played all weekend and not done it once until that point.

If it's a casual game, like most of my games are, I'll tell them anything I think is relevant, like the no-extra-penetration-dice component of Living Metal if I see him deploy meltas toward my monolith, or the warscythe in general if he comes at me with SS/TH termies.

There are rare cases where I'm playing some smug, trash-talking (not in a clearly humorous way) donkey-cave of a player. In that kind of grudge match he's getting nothing from me unless he asks.

I do - i don't ever want my opponent to be 'suprised' and be like WTF and then whine about it.

"I told you ahead of time - you knew it"

So fair game.

It's been a while since I've played in a tournament but when I did I didn't volunteer much for sake of time but of course I don't play uncommon armies either.

In friendly games I will explain a units abilities if they are new or if it's a unit you don't see alot. For example I have good friend that whose only eldar opponent is me and I had never taken harlequins against him before. And if any unit needs some explaining it's harlequins.

One thing I forgot to mention is that for a friendly game, I might remind my opponent during the game (like if he's about to shoot at Harlies from across the board). However, in a tournament, after I give the full disclosure at the beginning, I don't offer anything else unless asked.

I like to remind my opponents of stuff, just because even the hardest veterans forget stuff from time to time. Also, it helps me remember, because many's the time I've forgotten that a certain unit has Furious Charge, or something like that.

I ask if my opponent has any questions about my list before the game.

I answer any questions they have before and during the game.

I don't expect anything more from them.

If I have questions about your army, I'll ask. If I don't ask but you tell me anyway, I'll think highly of your sportsmanship. If I don't ask and you don't tell me... until it becomes relavent and I've just screwed myself with my ignorance... well, ignorance SHOULD hurt. And it IS a tournament - I don't expect anyone to make sure I'm fully up on their army rules; that's part of my job as a tournament player.

At least under these circumstances, it's just the pain of a lost game. There are many other circumstances where the consequences of ingnorance hurts a LOT more!

And if I'm just there to play some new people, then why should I care if not knowing cost me a match? After all, I'm just there to play new people, right? It's not like I'm there seriously trying to win the tournament, right?


EDIT: Although if I ask and you DON'T tell me until after I've screwed myself... that will reflect in my opinion of your sportsmanship as well.

Another vote for learn the hard way. There is a reason I own pretty much all the books for the various armies (missing a couple of 40k ones) and that is so I can 'know my foe'.

Now that is not to say I'd just claim them, when asked it is polite to let them see your Codex/Army book so they can read it themselves, rather than have it paraphrased.

ArbitorIan wrote:

Arander wrote:If your playing in a tournament, you should have the experience and prior knowledge of at least the basic differences between the armies.

Well, that depends on if you see tournaments as some sort of 'Elite Gamers Club where only the BEST are allowed', or if you see them as a great opportunity to meet and play different people.

I'm inclined towards the latter....

You may be inclined towards the latter but the foremost purpose of the tournament is to find a winner. Of course they want you to have fun and meet new people but if that was the purpose they would just have an open gaming day. Competition is the point of tournaments and it is the responsibility of the player to know his opponents list. If there is anything you do not know or want clarified because you sort of remember it then you should ask.

Now if I asked a question and my opponent did not tell me I would think he was an ass hat. But I do not expect my opponent to take 15-20 minutes of his own time breaking down every rule and unit he has and how it applies to my army. That is my job to figure out.

I don't think you ever need to tell your opponent special rules before the game.

In friendly games I think it isn't bad to do especially if the person is somewhat of a nooby, but in tournaments you should be generally familiar with the rules. Now, I do think that if someone asks about a rule, you should tell them it. Like if your opponent is Dark Eldar and has night shields on his Raiders and you don't know what they do, you can ask him to explain a rule or see the rulebook. I think that is appropriate.

In a tournament I always ask if people are familiar with SoB and if they are not i give them my codex and a brief outline of how Faith, Angelic Visage, Holy Hatred, etc. works and, I'll answer any questions they have about my force. Faith especially is an easy thing for someone to muddle up, and i don't want to win a game just because my opponent thought he could march his terminators safely into my gunline before realizing that i had AP1 Bolters and Flamers.

I do expect my opponent to do the same though; and if not, I'll ask them a series of increasingly obvious questions to see if i can make them lose their cool

If it's an opponent who I know knows the rules, then I probably won't unless they ask. But I need to know them to know that. If it is someone I don't know, I'll try to go over things, either at the beginning of the game, or at least before I use it, but try is the operative word here, as it's easy to forget stuff during the course of a game.

I will take the time to warn opponent's if they're about to stumble into something out of the ordinary that is indicative that they don't know what's going on. That's just how I'd rather play.

This is both for tournaments and friendly play. I see no reason not to be friendly at a tournament.

I keep Army Builder set up to print the special rules and weapon profiles ith my lists. When I'm at a tourney I state what I'm doing and why. Otherwise I don't tell them anything unless they ask especially since my roster is available with special rules. Being a somewhat new (barely a year of play) player there are still things I havn't seen. If I see something new I simply ask what it is and what it does then go from there.

Redbeard wrote:This is both for tournaments and friendly play. I see no reason not to be friendly at a tournament.

I agree. However, it's a fine line at a tournament to say "you might not want to do that..." if you think they've forgotten about a special rule. For straight-forward things such as shooting at Harlies, I would be cool with telling my opponent or having him tell me that they're probably completely out of range. But for more subtle things such as a unit being within fleet range of a Soulgrinder/Defiler, it can come off the wrong way like maybe you're trying to play mindgames with them or something.

Usually i say ask what you want to know and i'll tell. But if it's someone learning the game, i tell em' what can do what before the game starts.
I don't play tournies so i have no input on that subject.

I would gather from the posts that the general opinion would be ask if he doesn't know your rules and if he doesn't give him/her the rundown on your stuff. otherwise don't mention it unless it's an extremely odd unit like SC's and the like.

I tell them everything, and ask if they have additional questions. I put a model from the unit on top of the transport when it's embarked, I line my Reserve units (representaive models, at least) up so they can see what's in reserves. I don't hide anything. I'm going to beat them because I beat them, not because they didn't know some special fiddly little rule about my army. On the flip side, I tend to wave off their explanations, as I expect ME to know my opponent's special rules. Guess I'm silly that way.

And yet, I seem to do well in tourneys.............

This seems like it would be an excellent subject for one of them there fancy dakka polls...

The beginning of my games starts with this:

1. My opponent and I exchange lists.

2. I say, "How well do you know orks?"
2a. If they say, "Very well" I say, "Alright, let me know if you have any questions."
2b. If they say, "Not so much" I say, "Alright, do you want me to walk you through my list?"
2b1. I walk them through my units and what their highlights are.


3. I ask my opponent about each of the units in their list that I'm unclear on, where melta weapons/lascannons/etc are, specific questions about powers/loadouts that I'm unfamiliar with - I'm not afraid to demonstrate my ignorance, and people are happy to answer questions about their list in my experience.

I don't expect my opponent to tell me the secrets of their army and the keys to defeating them. I got spanked by dual landraider Vulkan/Redeemer nastiness Saturday during game2 of my GT - I didn't know what the list could do, or how to play against it; I thought those were lascannons on the side of his landraiders, not flamers (among other things) but I learned some valuable lessons, and won't make those mistakes again. Isn't that about the best way to learn? Touch the stove and get burned?

Dashofpepper wrote:The beginning of my games starts with this:

1. My opponent and I exchange lists.

2. I say, "How well do you know orks?"
2a. If they say, "Very well" I say, "Alright, let me know if you have any questions."
2b. If they say, "Not so much" I say, "Alright, do you want me to walk you through my list?"
2b1. I walk them through my units and what their highlights are.


3. I ask my opponent about each of the units in their list that I'm unclear on, where melta weapons/lascannons/etc are, specific questions about powers/loadouts that I'm unfamiliar with - I'm not afraid to demonstrate my ignorance, and people are happy to answer questions about their list in my experience.

This.

at tournaments

usually i exchange lists read theirs and if they are using something uncommon i usually ask for their codex and read the rule myself rahter than asking them.

i answer anything they ask.

in friendly i still dont always tell every rule, but only for the sole reason of making people learn. I have found if i just tell them it goes in one ear and out the other, if i burn them with it they remember the next time.

but i'm also trying to make the people in my area better players.

Seeing how rare my Dark Eldar are I've actualy thrown all of my army's special rules onto a 1 page print out that I give to a player along with my army list. This include explanations for things like Wych drugs, Wych weapons, rules for the horrorfex, how dark lances work, how agonizers work, ect. It does a couple things, it means the other player isn't having to look everything up in my codex and and has all the rules with them later so they know I didn't try cheating.

If its a friendly game, I'll explain stuff as I go along to a newby, and I know what my friends tend to remember, so I'll volunteer new/obscure stuff.

At a Toury, I would expect a basic knowledge/ability to infer. First thing, I give them my list and ask if they have any questions. If they do, I'll answer them. I'll explain any rules I use as I go along if I think they need it, or if they query. If they do something daft, or don't ask about a unit's abilities and then get hit for it, more fool them. I will do everything I can to help them understand if asked, but it I will not babysit anyone through a Tourny game.

Store Tourny a few weeks back

"Ever have dealings with Wood Elves?"
"Nope"
"Fear the trees. They do not fear you." With a smile.

Its always a great look on someone's face when that piece of forest terrain walks across the board the first time.

I am more of the play to have fun types, even in a tournament i'm pretty laid back. While I don't expect for the opponent to tell me every little detail of his army. If I point at a unit I expect the opponent to tell me what kind of special abilities they may have, I may ask for any relevant statistic and that is all.

Although I am a seasoned gamer (12+ years) I also play WAY too many non-gw skirmish games and I can't remember all the rules/stats of everything.

I don't expect a full run down of all of the stat lines, but a "This weird Eldar unit is now a troop choice because of x" is just good sportsmanship. If I ask if there are any special rules I should be aware of, that is a good example.

To wait until the end of the game to say "Neener-Neener, these guys I parked on this objective are troops because of x", after I asked for any special rules I should be aware of is going to guarantee that I will never play you again.

I have to explain my special rules whenever I play Necrons. Few times I just picked up and played I was actually called cheating when I laid my casualties on the side instead of removing them. People who never fought Necrons make the funniest expressions seeing their shooting phase basically undone.

i offer them my army list and ask them if they know much about the army. if they admit to ignorance about it, i go into a general rundown and tell them the things that will most likely raise an eyebrow (like scoring termies in a deathwing DA army led by belial).

I usually only played fantasy (I don't play so much now), so Magic Items were usually a wait-and-see deal, but the odd time both my opponent and I would give each other a run down of our forces. At the tourneys I played in, they were usually open list so we'd show each other our lists. Of course, reading someones crappy handwriting on an Arby's napkin isn't too helpful, but I made it out alright. In addition, I usually played against the same gang of nerds in my gaming club, so we generally knew each other's tricks and magic item combos.

Here in Japan, in the fantasy department, their lists are pretty weak generally. They always seem to go for the 500 point special character in 1500 point games (They do that here....) I might be TFFG (the extra "F2 is for "foreign")

I usually ask "have you played orks before?" and if they haven't I give a rough outline of what everything is and what it does. I'll ask questions about stuff I don't know, and answer any questions they have.
Generally, I don't give actual advice unless it's a friendly game though. I wouldn't expect an opponent to give me advice either, until afterwards. I'd even be a wee bit uncomfortable with it, because I'd feel like maybe I should reciprocate, and that's not really what I want to do in a competative game.

The only time I generally feel the need to explain things is when my opponent says something like "Gee I've never played X before". Otherwise the assumption is that my opponent at least has the general idea of what's going on. I freely answer questions if my opponent asks and usually try to supply an army list, but I don't really feel obligated to hold my opponent's hand through my army unit-by-unit. You can only get so much out a cliff notes version of an army anyways.

After playing deamons in 40K my explanations have gotten notably more brief. My opponent's eyes usually glaze over about halfway through the daemonic assault rules, so I ended up simplifying the affair to "They all deepstrike, fight pretty hard, and this character named Epidemius buffs the army for every 5 models my guys kill".

A listing of statlines and abilities of an army will only go so far to creating a coherent picture of what it does in game.

I would expect people to know the basics of a mainstream army like Eldar though, it's not like he was coming in with a wych cult army.

The assault move on warp spiders is their thing, much like banshees always strike first, avatar is a beast in hand to hand and Wraith Lords are a pain.

Between myself & my fellow gamers that I play with, there are Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Orks, Tyranids, & Tau. During each of our gatherings we are always discussing what each of our respective armys can do and are always impressed to see em in action.
Being open with what can and cant be done with your army makes the game more enjoyable and gets us coming back for more! No ones likes and unexpected rule to pop up at the 11th hour and will usually spoil the players mood for the remainder of the game!

So ask away, ya wanna know what I can do... sure i'll tell you, now lets see if you can deal with it!
Knowing the path and walking the path... gotta love it

Keep those dice rolling all!

I always make it clear that my opponent can ask me any questions or see my codex/list at any time. My squads and transports are color-coded so there's no guess-work there either. If the person is clearly a noob (grey marines and what looks like a few a box sets thrown together) I'm very clear and volunteer, because there's a good chance I'm going to pound their face anyway I think my only conflict with another player at a tournament has been with the game time running out and him starting the next turn afterward, putting me at a clear disadvantage. The judges were all occupied with higher up tables and it was the final round so it didn't matter anyway.

People here have become pretty familiar with my daemons, so I don't have to explain too often. At a tourney, where people seem to come out of the woodwork, I'll show them my list, point out fateweaver (if I'm bringing a second greater daemon), which models have the bolt of change, where changeling is, and let them know if they have any questions. If they say they're unfamiliar with the daemon codex, I'll let them know I have to deepstrike, how my deployement works, that I'm fearless, and everyone has invulnerable saves. With time constraints, I don't go into too much detail until it comes up, or if I want to definitely make sure I attract attention to a particular unit so that another one has a chance to do even more damage. I do mention that everything I bring is nasty, and will usually give a brief 1-2 sentence synopsis for each unit or unit type if they're completely unfamiliar. (For example - Bloodletters, close combat specialists, eats marines in close combat. Screamers - flying meltabombs. Horrors - lots of midrange shooting.) Enough to get the point across without giving up everything. If they ask for more, I'll answer or give them the codex to peruse.

I let my opponent know my army wide special rules or special rules that might vastly affect how he deployed. I would rather win with skill than to blindside someone and leave a bad taste in their mouth.

I have a double sided laminated print out of my army and unit special rules as well as the range, strength, and ap of my guns. I leave it on my opponents side of the table for them to read.

I love the high-and-mighty players who feel its deceitful to not explain EVERYTHING about your army upfront. Have a question? Sure Ill answer it, even show it to you, but I am not going out of my way at the beginning of each game to baby you. Having a good list and dice rolls are only part of this game. Do your homework on the armies you will be playing, play practice games, whatever. Take some responsibility and learn. I learned by trial an error. I now know never to assault a Ctan expecting my storm shields to save me, and my opponent knows I can take termies as troops when paired with my special character.
New players are the only exception for obvious reasons.

Im sure the only reason Japan lost WW2 was because the US failed disclose beforehand they had Tactical Nuke special rule.

Cyporiean wrote:Store Tourny a few weeks back

"Ever have dealings with Wood Elves?"
"Nope"
"Fear the trees. They do not fear you." With a smile.

Its always a great look on someone's face when that piece of forest terrain walks across the board the first time.

THE TREEEEEEES!!!! TREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSS!!!!!!!1!

I always ask 'have you played Necrons before?' If I get a 'no,' then I explain WBB, teleporting, and C'tan nastiness.

If I get a 'yeah' then I proceed to tell him what is where as I deploy (Lord with Veil, Gaze of Flame, and warscythe here...2 units of 1 Heavy Destroyer there...Nightbringer here). If they ask any questions, then of course I explain the rules to them and (briefly) how it might affect the course of the game. If the person is a tool, then I won't bother to mention his Sonic Blasters can't hurt the Nightbringer or that I didn't get a Res Orb so he can negate WBB with krak missiles/equivalents.

At tournaments, I just set up and play. I ask a lot of questions about my opponent's army so that I know exactly what I am looking at. Unfortunately for quite a few of my opponents, they don't ask the same amount of questions until I lift the Lord and move him to the other side of the table...'uhh, what are you doing?' 'Veiling away from your meganobz and getting ready to light up your lootas...sorry'

combatmedic wrote:I love the high-and-mighty players who feel its deceitful to not explain EVERYTHING about your army upfront. Have a question? Sure Ill answer it, even show it to you, but I am not going out of my way at the beginning of each game to baby you. Having a good list and dice rolls are only part of this game. Do your homework on the armies you will be playing, play practice games, whatever. Take some responsibility and learn. I learned by trial an error. I now know never to assault a Ctan expecting my storm shields to save me, and my opponent knows I can take termies as troops when paired with my special character.
New players are the only exception for obvious reasons.

Im sure the only reason Japan lost WW2 was because the US failed disclose beforehand they had Tactical Nuke special rule.

Comparisons between 40k and WW2 are both fallacious and annoying.

Combatmedic

Maybe I play a different style of game than you but trying to equate the United States trying to control the Pacific Front to a game of 40k seems absurd. I far and above enjoy games were people understand each others armies., even in a tournament. Which is why I provide my opponent with the information. I guess being an underhanded cuss is just not my bag.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do you think crushing your opponents into the rules is the best way to spread the hobby?

Mannahnin wrote:I'll ask my opponent if they're generally familiar with my army, and summarize any army-wide special rules. As I deploy each unit I'll generally also tell my opponent what upgrades/weapons they have. I won't take the time to go into individual unit special abilities unless my opponent asks.

This is the p.o.v. I take with all of my games, regardless of being a tourney or regular game (though my regular group knows the armies almost inside out).

Eric

If I have never played my opponent before I will do a quick run-through of my army (as follows):
*Have you ever played against (insert current army)
*Are you familiar with so-and-so (special character or unique unit for said army)
*Just a reminder he/she does so-and-so (insert rules info prior to using it)

If I know the player is experienced, or has the same army then I will skip the above questions, but I will still do a run-through of my army (units, weapons, conversions, etc...).

If I'm playing with a special character that alters my army comp or special rules, I'll usually let them know ahead of time (like Forgelord Joachim Santos y Martinez).

My general rule for rules is this: I will probably assume that you know what's going on, but if you have any questions I will explain them until there is no longer any doubt the particulars of any model sitting on the table.

Don't know what that is? I'll tell you.
Don't know what weapon he has? I'll even tell you what it does.

I do not proxy or misrepresent, as I have no interest in obfuscating any part of any army that I play, ever.

RxGhost wrote:
Don't know what that is? I'll tell you.
Don't know what weapon he has? I'll even tell you what it does.

I do not proxy or misrepresent, as I have no interest in obfuscating any part of any army that I play, ever.

+1 here!

I don't even like putting something on the table that isn't painted to my personal standards.. never mind proxy's

Always let them learn the hard way they should look at other codices

combatmedic wrote:

Im sure the only reason Japan lost WW2 was because the US failed disclose beforehand they had Tactical Nuke special rule.

That belongs in someone's signature.

Unfortunately, mine is full.

Kind of arguments both ways though. From your original argument about the avatar, if you have never seen one before then you would not know its strengths necessarily.

On the flipside though, I think most don't model/paint him as perfectly as possible, isn't he described as looking like he is made of lava? Sometimes these shortcomings deserve further explanation. There is the style of playing where people do not disclose what is in transports, for example. This is not to be a jerk, but both agree and it is to make you feel more in the game - watching how transports move to see what is carrying important units.

Kind of rambling... For fun, I suggest don't tell. For serious, I think it is a fair thing to remind them. (Kind of goes against most of the other comments).

It depends on your degree of WAAC.

I mean, if your there with your 3 Tervigons and Flyrant and think you have a chance at top tables then it's probably best not to waste your time explaining paroxysm to the kid with half painted CSM vanila marines of fail.

But if your playing with your fluffy necrons and the guy across the table says he's never played against 'robots' then you could probably help him out a little by telling him about WBB.

Blackmoor wrote:My question to you is how much do you disclose to your opponent in a tournament?

There seems to be three options:
#1. Take the time tell them all of your special rules and abilities of your units.
#2. Hit just the important parts of the rules
#3. Have them learn the hard way

Here are 2 quick examples:
The first one is the Avatar who is immune to Flamers and Melta weaponry.
The other example is Warp Spiders who can do a warp jump move in the assault phase.

Do I disclose their abilities to my opponent, or have them learn the hard way?

So do I educate the new players, or the fact that you know the rules to other armies is just one of the things that separate the good players from the bad players?

In tournaments, unless they ask, I will let them learn the hard way because its a competitive setting so they should do the research beforehand and know the special rules.

Friendly everyday games I'll tell them everything.

Even in tournaments, perhaps especially in tournaments, I always tell my opponent everything about my army's special rules if they're unfamiliar with the army I'm playing or units I'm using. Saves time looking things up in books for one thing but most importantly I go to tournaments to prove I'm the best or to improve my playing ability so that I can be the best. An ignorant opponent helps me not at all in this regard.

For instance, I've run Mad Dok Grotsnik in several tournaments recently, and made sure I told my opponent every time (none were familiar with him) that he forces his mob to go after the closest enemy unit, which is perhaps his biggest weakness.

Every game I retell my opponents how things work unless they tell me to stop. I tend to do this automatically, even against regular opponents.

My friend on the other hand, hides his reserves in his case, vaguely mentions what unit is in what transport, and other slightly shady things. The other player asks "Hey what does your terminators have?" "Some special weapons and a reaper auto" (They have 4x Combimeltas)

Gornall wrote:One thing I forgot to mention is that for a friendly game, I might remind my opponent during the game (like if he's about to shoot at Harlies from across the board). However, in a tournament, after I give the full disclosure at the beginning, I don't offer anything else unless asked.

I am pretty much just a tournament gamer now but I miss being able to play in a well run campaign. I will often ask friends I respect as fellow tournament gamers to help me playtest new lists. I buy every codex and study them. Some armies fully function as according to their special rules. Take IG as an example of a new 5th edition codex that I don't play and has all kinds of special rules, special units. It's really hard to wrap your head around this one unless you play it. When I come to the table I don't expect my opponent to explain any special rule in advance. It's my responsibility to understand what I am up against. I used to play 13th Company and the army had lots of special rules. It was one of those armies you didn't see often. Typically I did not explain any of their special rules prior to the start of a game. 13th Company matched up very well versus both L&tD and the previous CSM.

G

If you try to tell a new player all the special rules in warmachine, their eyes glaze over.

Past the obvious stuff, of course.

If something has a fancy name that is not commonly used, I'll explain or if their demeanor changes when I'm running through my list I'll pause and explain.

I would rather beat someone who has a knowledge then kick someone into the ground because he thought it was a good idea to only shoot high ap, low strength weapons at the plague marines.

well i'm something of a new player, as are most of the people i play against, but i tend to tell them what i have at the start, including all equipment, but not go into specifics until it's relevant or i'm asked. That way if you don't ask about the rules you don't know then you've only got yourself to blame when the librarian frazzles your psychic powers, for example.

I tell it all. Let the dice be the judge.

In a tournament why should you have to tell them how the game works.

Its not your fault if they dont know all the rules..

Having suffered from my ignorance many times I will tell you its much easier to remember if you learn the hard way.

Before even choosing sides I introduce myself and ask how long have you been playing and where are you from?

Depending on how they answer can give you a good read on what type of player they are.

Show them your army and ask if they have played against it before

A. If they say I've only played against them once or twice...
1. I generally disclose everything about my army.
2. Pick up a model show it to them, tell them everything about it.
3. Show my opponent how to differentiate between units etc.
4. Hand them a copy of my list and quiz them on what i just showed them

B. I know everything about your army...
1. Hand them a copy of my list
2. I pick up/point to a model show it to them and ask them to tell me everything about it, remind them of anything they missed
3. Show my opponent how to differentiate between units etc.

Before the game begins I ask "Do you have any other questions about the units in my army?"

I'm super forgiving during the game too buts that's just my nature. If they forget something "special" I typically allow do overs.

I tend to do a recap of what if's after the game and show them what i might have done differently etc.