so who thinks the necrons are the mysterious hive mind.

probably no one.

I never thought about it much. But it is true that the tyranids avoid planets on which the necrons reside. Although this may be due to the fact that they cant consume the necrons becuase they're only metal.

At least noone who has read the Necron Codex and/or knows their background.
Necrons are Necrontyr who were lured into metal bodies, losing their free will by that (no free will -> no creative decisions).
Necrontyr were an old race before turning into Necrons, but of this Galaxy. Tyranids come from another Galaxy.
C'tan were just energy beings living parasitically of star matter, before lured into metal bodies by the Necrontyr. They are of this Galaxy as well.

basically that was the reason behind why i posted this.
the tyranids seem to avoid the necrons as if thier the plague.
but the necrons being living metal could be a reason,

If I remember correctly Nid's could care less about Necrons because of the lack of biomass, and Necrons could care less about Nid's because of the lack of souls. Neither has anything the other needs, so they have no reason to go after the other.

Could be wrong, I'm rusty on Necron fluff.

...No

Necrons stripped their tomb planets of all biomass in fear of an Enslaver invasion. So nothing to get there for Tyranids.

Some people think this because of the C'tan background, more specifically The Outsider. I've seen it speculated to be the Hive Mind a few times.

Fun Fact: The C'tan were the first race in the galaxy.

They aren't linked as far as I know and the Outsider thing isn't feasible to me.
Necrons could easly wipe out the Tyranids with those World Engines.They just do hit and run tactics until Tyranids are dead.

IvanTih wrote:They aren't linked as far as I know and the Outsider thing isn't feasible to me.
Necrons could easly wipe out the Tyranids with those World Engines.They just do hit and run tactics until Tyranids are dead.

Except that the first (documented) World Engine was defeated by a Battlebarge ramming into it (through the shields) and disgorging a Chapter into the World Engine itself. This is more or less the stock tactic for Tyranid space-borne warfare, and they excel at it like no other. Large, obvious targets are the *worst* thing to bring against a Tyranid Hive Fleet.

Depending on the true scale of the Tyranid threat (coupled with the already abundant psychic races native to the galaxy), the C'tan might well opt to just go back to sleep, let the Tyranids purge the galaxy and then set their alarm clocks for another 65 million years time.

I agree Ivan I don't think it's feasible either for them to be related, I'm just saying that's usually the reason I see them linked together

1 word. Ridiculous.

One point of many to support this
nids use psychic powers... extensively. The c'tan would not allow/create/facilitate that. Their overarching agenda is to block off, shut down, and cut off the warp from reality. I mean... that is all that can really kill?/hurt them. Hence Pariahs being their ultimate/next step in the necron evolution.

I think there is potential for an interesting plotline here. Y'see, the tyranids have infact never waged war with necrons, how do we know that necrons didn't travel to the nids galaxy and create them as slaves with nobody knowing. Even the nids themselves wouldn't know but for some reason they have the instincs not to attack crons.

If I remember correctly Nid's could care less about Necrons because of the lack of biomass, and Necrons could care less about Nid's because of the lack of souls. Neither has anything the other needs, so they have no reason to go after the other.

The tyranids won't fight crons because their strength is to absorb all biomass after taking a planet therefore loosing nothing won't work against armies with no biomas. However crons would love to snack on tyranids. C'tan eat the life force of living creatures (can't remeber source of info, sorry) and there are a lot of nids to eat. when crons attack a planet they kill all life not just creatures with souls, if a C'tan can eat a dog then it can eat a nid.

To OP- you aren't the only one with this idea, the are a lot of people who think that an unknown C'tan or possibly the outsider is behind it. Most of the C'tan from this galaxy are gone but they were created at the begining of the universe so their could be others out their.

scarskull5 wrote:I think there is potential for an interesting plotline here. Y'see, the tyranids have infact never waged war with necrons, how do we know that necrons didn't travel to the nids galaxy and create them as slaves with nobody knowing. Even the nids themselves wouldn't know but for some reason they have the instincs not to attack crons.

Isn't there an incident in the new BA codex that says both the Crons and BA's were attacked by 'Nids?

Sorry, rusty on Cron fluff, but who is the Outsider?

Isn't there an incident in the new BA codex that says both the Crons and BA's were attacked by 'Nids?

Dante, and some Blood Angels, were fighting the Necrons lead by the "Silent King" when they were attacked by Tyranids, and...teamed up... To beat them. Then they parted ways peacefully.

Sorry, rusty on Cron fluff, but who is the Outsider?

One of the 4 still living, C'tan. Supposed to be insane, and currently trapped in a Dyson Sphere.

If you are implying yourself, then one person: you.
If you aren't, then nobody.

ehhh, no real connection to my view
especially since in the nid codex at one point a tyranid invasion wakes up a necron army on a nearby moon.....who then proceed to vaporize and rape every tyranid in the system before harvesting the tau on the invaded planet

Grey Templar wrote:probably no one.

Wins thread, especially given that it was the second post. Good show, everyone else. Just be faster next time.

just pointing it out thier. i guess the story of necrons teaming up with the blood angels proves it.
even though that story could be a lie. like all history could possibley be a lie.
but i doubt they would lie about having to team up with necrons.

and for any butt turds that think i think this can just stop posting its irritating im just trying to propose a possible point. thier might be a story behind the tyranids to whats controlling them. possibley a reason for humanity to set aside thier difference or to use as a weapon against everyone else i honestly do not know.

Xyptc wrote:

IvanTih wrote:They aren't linked as far as I know and the Outsider thing isn't feasible to me.
Necrons could easly wipe out the Tyranids with those World Engines.They just do hit and run tactics until Tyranids are dead.

Except that the first (documented) World Engine was defeated by a Battlebarge ramming into it (through the shields) and disgorging a Chapter into the World Engine itself. This is more or less the stock tactic for Tyranid space-borne warfare, and they excel at it like no other. Large, obvious targets are the *worst* thing to bring against a Tyranid Hive Fleet.

Depending on the true scale of the Tyranid threat (coupled with the already abundant psychic races native to the galaxy), the C'tan might well opt to just go back to sleep, let the Tyranids purge the galaxy and then set their alarm clocks for another 65 million years time.

I've always imagined that the World Engine would just use the Inertialess Drive to jump to another location therefore evading Tyranids.

I do think the 2 are connected in the sense that the Outsider is probably the Hive mind, but I also dont think the Outsider is any friend to the other C'tan, so any linked agenda is squashed. The Outsider left the galaxy because he was hated by the C'tan and didnt want to be killed by the Nightbringer, and came back with a race of bugs bound to his will. Not the most ludicrious theory i've heard.

Edit: I meshed the Nightbringer and Outsider lore up just very slightly, the Outsider was eating other C'tan and went crazy because of it, left the galaxy because of the retribution from the others.

Also I think it's funny to think that maybe the Outsider got a bit Biased with one of his hive fleets, yes i'm thinking of you Iyanden

Laughing god: 1 Outsider: a long awaited 1

I hear a C'tan was behind the Kennedy assassination.

Hive Mind = psychic = warp

C'tan = / = warp

Outsider = / Hive Mind

The short answer is no.
The long answer is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO/forever.

Retribution wrote:Hive Mind = psychic = warp

C'tan = / = warp

Outsider = / Hive Mind

EXACTLY.
FTW.

Ad Meliora wrote:I hear a C'tan was behind the Kennedy assassination.

Its true. It was the grassy knoll, thats how we missed it all these years

And now you lot've got a Changer of Ways in the Oval Office...

You just -gotta- keep fething yourselves over, don't you?

totaly behind the kennedy assination.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
totaly behind the kennedy assination.

The Galaxy will consumed by the Great Devourer...and at this point there will only be one thing left to purge them...the Necrons.

There is only one psychic force stronger than the Hive mind and it is that of the C'tan...

When the Devourer is full and it becomes a war of attrition I believe the Necrons will win out.

Which saddens me because I love the bugs.

ductvader wrote:The Galaxy will consumed by the Great Devourer...and at this point there will only be one thing left to purge them...the Necrons.

There is only one psychic force stronger than the Hive mind and it is that of the C'tan...

When the Devourer is full and it becomes a war of attrition I believe the Necrons will win out.

Which saddens me because I love the bugs.

Eh?

The C'tan arnt psychic... they dispise the warp with every fibre of their beings.

No, nee, nein.

Necrons could ultimatly do hit and run tactics on Tyranids to bleed them slowly.It says in the Battlefleet Gothic that Necrons choose when to disengage from the battle.

Did i make it not clear enough? The C'tan are the antithesis of the warp, they hate the immaterium, their entire goal at the current time is to permanently separate the real world from the warp

IvanTih wrote:Necrons could ultimatly do hit and run tactics on Tyranids to bleed them slowly.It says in the Battlefleet Gothic that Necrons choose when to disengage from the battle.

This is true, but equally Tyranid ships are very hard to really damage, rapidly heal themselves and calf whenever they are attacked/eat something (from BFG & various Tyranid sources). The Necrons are in all probability going to have to stick around for a time to inflict any real damage on the Tyranids, and that is what plays into the Tyranids' hands... eh, claws. There's no point in the Necrons jumping on a Tyranid Hive Fleet, frying a couple of drones and scorching the carapace of a Hive Ship if those Drones are replaced within hours and the Carapace heals over.

Honestly, if it came right down to Tyranids versus Necrons, the Necrons might well simply go back to bed - why would they fight for a barren, empty galaxy? Once the Tyranids have scoured life from the galaxy and moved on, the universe will start to churn out more life sooner or later, and the Necrons can be there to harvest it.

The 'nids aren't warp-based, according to the codex. The necrons hate the warp. Read either the physic powers section (pg. 55) or the 'nid rules (pg. 33), or somewhere else.

could it be that the necrons hate the warp but not thier gods? they'd hate the warp because they ignored it and turned into machines or something?

or could GW be making another stand off of natures.

tyranids VS necrons who will win!
as an all out brall. even if the tyranids have nothing to gain from it but harvesting the souls from the necrons as the doom of malantai does.

Klawz wrote:The 'nids aren't warp-based, according to the codex. The necrons hate the warp. Read either the physic powers section (pg. 55) or the 'nid rules (pg. 33), or somewhere else.

Common misconception. The Tyranids *are* a Warp-based race. They don't travel through it, but they are all psychic, and the "power of the Hive Mind" channeled by Zoanthropes, Synapse creatures etc flows from the Warp, and their collective psychic presence within the Warp causes such an overload that the Shadow precedes their advance (see pages 44, 62 of Codex: Tyranids). They do not "draw power" from the Warp in the same way that a Librarian "summons the power of the Warp" (the power to do what they do is borrowed from their Synaptic web), but the actual essence of what a Zoanthrope hurls at a tank, or the medium by which a Tyrant issues its commands is the Warp never the less.

A crude analogy would be a Librarian and a Zoanthrope attacking something with water (representing the Warp). The Librarian opens a rip in the universe above the target, and water drops out onto said target, getting it all cold, wet and generally unpleasant. The Zoanthrope and his buddies (who are actually enjoying a conversation about the weather by blowing bubbles at each other through the water) are able to use their bubbles to spray water at the target. Same effect, different means of doing it.

amen

love the analogy.

Xyptc wrote:

Klawz wrote:The 'nids aren't warp-based, according to the codex. The necrons hate the warp. Read either the physic powers section (pg. 55) or the 'nid rules (pg. 33), or somewhere else.

Common misconception. The Tyranids *are* a Warp-based race. They don't travel through it, but they are all psychic, and the "power of the Hive Mind" channeled by Zoanthropes, Synapse creatures etc flows from the Warp, and their collective psychic presence within the Warp causes such an overload that the Shadow precedes their advance (see pages 44, 62 of Codex: Tyranids). They do not "draw power" from the Warp in the same way that a Librarian "summons the power of the Warp" (the power to do what they do is borrowed from their Synaptic web), but the actual essence of what a Zoanthrope hurls at a tank, or the medium by which a Tyrant issues its commands is the Warp never the less.

A crude analogy would be a Librarian and a Zoanthrope attacking something with water (representing the Warp). The Librarian opens a rip in the universe above the target, and water drops out onto said target, getting it all cold, wet and generally unpleasant. The Zoanthrope and his buddies (who are actually enjoying a conversation about the weather by blowing bubbles at each other through the water) are able to use their bubbles to spray water at the target. Same effect, different means of doing it.

Tyranid Codex, page 33 wrote:Many tyranid creatures are also psykers. They do not draw their power from the warp in any fathomable way, but rather harness a fraction of the hive mind's gestalt will.

EDIT: Whoops, misread.

Klawz wrote:

Xyptc wrote:

Klawz wrote:The 'nids aren't warp-based, according to the codex. The necrons hate the warp. Read either the physic powers section (pg. 55) or the 'nid rules (pg. 33), or somewhere else.

Common misconception. The Tyranids *are* a Warp-based race. They don't travel through it, but they are all psychic, and the "power of the Hive Mind" channeled by Zoanthropes, Synapse creatures etc flows from the Warp, and their collective psychic presence within the Warp causes such an overload that the Shadow precedes their advance (see pages 44, 62 of Codex: Tyranids). They do not "draw power" from the Warp in the same way that a Librarian "summons the power of the Warp" (the power to do what they do is borrowed from their Synaptic web), but the actual essence of what a Zoanthrope hurls at a tank, or the medium by which a Tyrant issues its commands is the Warp never the less.

A crude analogy would be a Librarian and a Zoanthrope attacking something with water (representing the Warp). The Librarian opens a rip in the universe above the target, and water drops out onto said target, getting it all cold, wet and generally unpleasant. The Zoanthrope and his buddies (who are actually enjoying a conversation about the weather by blowing bubbles at each other through the water) are able to use their bubbles to spray water at the target. Same effect, different means of doing it.

Tyranid Codex, page 33 wrote:Many tyranid creatures are also psykers. They do not draw their power from the warp in any fathomable way, but rather harness a fraction of the hive mind's gestalt will.

EDIT: Whoops, misread.

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me by quoting that?

If you plan to rely on "do not draw their power from the Warp in any fathomable way" as a means of saying Tyranids aren't Warp-based, I remind you that that sentence is preceded by "Tyranids are also psykers", and that "the Hive Mind's gestalt will" is composed of the minds of the "highly psychic" Tyranids. There can be no question that the Tyranids "use" the Warp. The confusion seems to arise from the further detail, which is essentially that instead of simply drawing on the untamed, roiling energies of the Warp as the psykers native to our galaxy do, the Tyranids draw on their own massive, co-ordinated Warp-presence (i.e. their Hive Mind) to power their abilities. Their power to use the Warp does not come from the Warp itself, but they still "use" the Warp none the less. Note that the text you quote reads "do not draw their power from the Warp in any fathomable way", and does not read "do not use the Warp in any fathomable way".

If you're simply quoting me and a supporting text, then here, have a hug ^^

I do believe the Tyranids are creation of the Outsider. They come from 'outside' the 40k Galaxy where the Outsider currently resides. To me the Tyranids are the C'Tan's answer to the Orks. Krork/Orks were created to combat the Necron, the Tyranids were created to combat the Krork.

NecronLord3 wrote:I do believe the Tyranids are creation of the Outsider. They come from 'outside' the 40k Galaxy where the Outsider currently resides. To me the Tyranids are the C'Tan's answer to the Orks. Krork/Orks were created to combat the Necron, the Tyranids were created to combat the Krork.

This just doesn't add up though.

The Tyranids are arguably the most psychic race in the entire setting, with every single one of them contributing it's 'Warp presence' (consciousness, psychic mind, whatever you wish to describe it as) to compose the single grandest creature in the setting, a creature that resides both in our dimension and in the Warp. Why would the C'tan design a weapon that uses what is more or less their Kryptonite to that extent?

Furthermore, the Necrons are perfectly adept at fighting off and exterminating the Orks - they don't need help. Gauss weaponry, on a planetary scale (e.g. the Necron World Engine), renders the surface of a world little more than particles of dust. Not even Ork spores are left.

I'm all for conspiracy theories and joining the dots, but the Tyranids being a weapon of the C'tan makes as much sense as the Old Ones being a weapon of the C'tan, not because the Tyranids don't fit the profile of a living weapon (they do), but rather because of the nature of that weapon. It would be like a person with a pollen alergy deciding he's going to club someone to death with the world's largest bouquet of flowers.

Orks are incredibly resilient. IMO, not even Gauss weaponry would be enough to eradicate all the spores to prevent the Orks from regrowing. That is why they are ideally suited to fight Necrons. Lots of them, easily reproduce, and an Ork can pick up Necron Machinery and attach it to their bodies and it will work.

The idea that the C'tan would not use the abilities of their enemies against them is ludicrous. This is done time and time again in history, where the enemy weapon was taken reproduced and used against it's creator. Plus, the Outsider was driven crazy by being tricked into eating its own kind, who knows what kinda of screwed up things this did to it.

Don't forget the Fluff Golden Rule, all fluff is written in a way to be subject to interpretation. That way you can use it to design any sort of scenarios you wish and create a battle over it.

Tyranids are very Psychic, and at first this can be seen as an antithesis of the Necrons and C'tan, but an intresting thing can be gleamed from the description of the Tyranids Shadow in the Warp,
"Tyranids flood the battlefield with the psychic signature of the Hive Fleet, overwhelming the minds of enemy psyckers and interfering with their mystical abilities."
Something to think about, while I don't see the two races being linked in any way, I don't see why they wouldn't ally...at least until everybody else dead anyway.

The Fox Lord wrote:
"Tyranids flood the battlefield with the psychic signature of the Hive Fleet, overwhelming the minds of enemy psyckers and interfering with their mystical abilities."

That sounds like the ultimate anti-old one weapon to me as well as being similar to the Pariah ability.

id suggest people taking a close look to the tyranids enterpretation of shadow in the warp, it could be an interference in the warp possibley destroying the warp. as the necrons hate it so much

Ham doctor wrote:id suggest people taking a close look to the tyranids enterpretation of shadow in the warp, it could be an interference in the warp possibley destroying the warp. as the necrons hate it so much

It doesn't destroy the Warp in any way, shape or form though. The "Shadow" is simply the deafening chitter of trillions of Tyranids talking to one another through the Warp - imagine the sound of a trilion insects chirping outside your window, and then make it louder still, so not only can you not hear anything but you can't even concentrate on what's in front of you. It overwhelms other Warp-presences, little if anything can pass through it and is generally bad news for anything connected to the Warp that's not a Tyranid. That said, it a) still takes place within the Warp and b) does no permanent damage (to the Warp, at least) - everything returns to normal once the Tyranids have passed by (except if you're a psyker who tried to use his abilities without due care, in which case your brain exploded).

I can see how you might compare it to the Pariah effect and/or the Null effect Necron Pylons generate, but it's fundementally different. Pariahs and Null effects are a blanket or curtain against the Warp, where as the Tyranid Shadow is the complete opposite - an absolute overload within the Warp. Which brings us back to "it's the exact opposite to what the C'tan would like to deal with". The C'tan using the Tyranid Shadow to defeat psykers would be like a man who is allergic to water deciding it would be a great idea to kill the man standing next to him... by flooding the room they are both standing in.



As for the Tyranids and Necrons forming an alliance? The Tyranids don't even comprehend the concept. Unlike the Necrons, who were once mortal and are at least partially sentient, the Tyranids are life of a completely different order to the extent that everything else is just raw materials.

Xyptc wrote:As for the Tyranids and Necrons forming an alliance? The Tyranids don't even comprehend the concept. Unlike the Necrons, who were once mortal and are at least partially sentient, the Tyranids are life of a completely different order to the extent that everything else is just raw materials.

I agree with you but an alliance can be looked at in 2 ways. 1) A formal alliance where two(or more) parties formally decided to actively work together for a common goal. 2) An informal alliance where 2 or more parties have a common goal. The parties decrease, avoid, or intentionally put a stop to hostilites against one another for the completion of a seperate goal.

The 2nd type of alliance is where the Tyranids and Necrons fall. Neither desire(or are even capable) of forming an active alliance but neither has much in the way of an interest in fighting each other either. Tyranids cannot consume Necrons since they have no bio-mass, and Necrons do not have a need to kill Tyranids as they are not a creation of the Old Ones, have nothing in the way of a soul or other resource for the C'Tan to use, and are generally not a threat to the Necron. However, both have the same goal; the complete annihilation of all (other)life and the desire to eat it. This is how an alliance can be born, and for all we know the C'Tan could be actively using this alliance for their own goals regardless of whether the Tyranids could be a creation of the Outsider or simply being used once they had entered the Galaxy anyway.

This was also an interesting concept in the experimental 3rd edition Codex: Harlequin. Any army could take the Harlequins as an ally, not that the Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Tyranids, etc... would actively ally themselves with the Harlequins, but that the Harlequins would often appear on the the battlefield to complete a mysterious objective while the two parties were engaged in hostilities.

For me it's more likely the Tyranids are creations of the Old Ones, considering their strong psychic presence, and some similarities to the WHFB Lizardmen.
Both nids and Lizardmen create specialized breeds for different tasks, they both have some members with a powerful connection to the warp/winds of magic,
neither species creates breeds more intelligent than is needed for their tasks, and neither race uses much conventional technology like other races in their setting.

The nids, lacking emotions on the scale of other sentient races could also be seen as a way to "calm" the warp. If they remove all other life in the galaxy, the chaos
powers would most likely disappear too, preparing the galaxy for the Old Ones to return.

That is just my thought about where the nids come from.

That could be, but why would the old ones, who were gone before chaos came, only destroy chaos and leave their biggest enemy active.
'nids don't atack necrons because this is their nature, why would their nature be against their purpose as every race made by the old ones was initially made against necrons.
And if the old ones "came back" how then should they purge the necrons? and where were they in their absence? and if they weren't in this reality/galaxy/ something how would they know of chaos, the only entities from the warp they ever encountered were the "enslavers".

Just a slight remark.

If the old ones kicked the Tyranids out of their galaxy that would constitute a "link" between the Necrons and the Nids.

i was wondering if anyone knew where info can be found on the outsider.

love the analogy with water!!

how were the first nids made anyways?
can the outsider make gak?

'Nids have attacked Crons in the fluff as well (BA codex)

I think that tyranids and necrons are linked only in that they are both in the same galaxy at the same time.

It's possible that the Outsider and the C'tan he devoured formed some sort of wierd hive-mind after they fled the galaxy, it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened in Sci-fi (Star Trek Destiny series, creation of the borg)

I know that this will probably be knocked off instantly, but it is somewhat strange.
What if the Necrons were attempting to create a race that would bring the warp to ruin, and make them happy? (Similar to the Xel Naga from SC making the perfect race)

thats what i was thinking. maby the tyranids are supposed to be an end to the warp. even if the tyranids use the warp. just like america we dont want nuclear warfare but its not like we dont have nukes.

JSK-Fox wrote:I know that this will probably be knocked off instantly, but it is somewhat strange.
What if the Necrons were attempting to create a race that would bring the warp to ruin, and make them happy? (Similar to the Xel Naga from SC making the perfect race)

They have the means to sever the ties between the materium and the immaterium technologically, why go through the hassle of creating an entire species meant to nom nom nom? In the end i think people are just reading far too much into the fluff, 'Nids are simply the bugs of the 40k universe, i mean, every scifi universe needs that nom nom nom race, right?

they may need a nom nom nom race but what race isnt that.
space marines- nomnom for the emporer killing all who stand in thier way
chaos space marines- nomnom nom for the blood god.
chaos- nom nom nom do what i want as i bring gods alive and random stuff
necron- nomnom nom we eat your souls
imperial guard- go hide in a corner nomnom nom
idk what else.

How can one find out more about the old ones and the outsider?

TheBlackVanguard wrote:How can one find out more about the old ones and the outsider?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

Origins of the Emperor too.

Xyptc wrote:
I can see how you might compare it to the Pariah effect and/or the Null effect Necron Pylons generate, but it's fundementally different. Pariahs and Null effects are a blanket or curtain against the Warp,

First off, I would like to say thank you, your statements in this thread have been amazingly accurate and very insightful.

The above quote is my only problem.

You may have fully meant this but, The Pariah Gene creates a blank. They have no presence in the warp. and to me the Blanket/curtain doesn't seem to say that.

its like trying to see the wind, you could see a blanket or a curtain in the wind. But you can't see the wind by itself.

I hope that made sense.

I think the only link here is that they both wanna eat ya in different ways.

Otherwise nah.

NecronLord3 wrote:

Xyptc wrote:As for the Tyranids and Necrons forming an alliance? The Tyranids don't even comprehend the concept. Unlike the Necrons, who were once mortal and are at least partially sentient, the Tyranids are life of a completely different order to the extent that everything else is just raw materials.

I agree with you but an alliance can be looked at in 2 ways. 1) A formal alliance where two(or more) parties formally decided to actively work together for a common goal. 2) An informal alliance where 2 or more parties have a common goal. The parties decrease, avoid, or intentionally put a stop to hostilites against one another for the completion of a seperate goal.

The 2nd type of alliance is where the Tyranids and Necrons fall. Neither desire(or are even capable) of forming an active alliance but neither has much in the way of an interest in fighting each other either. Tyranids cannot consume Necrons since they have no bio-mass, and Necrons do not have a need to kill Tyranids as they are not a creation of the Old Ones, have nothing in the way of a soul or other resource for the C'Tan to use, and are generally not a threat to the Necron. However, both have the same goal; the complete annihilation of all (other)life and the desire to eat it. This is how an alliance can be born, and for all we know the C'Tan could be actively using this alliance for their own goals regardless of whether the Tyranids could be a creation of the Outsider or simply being used once they had entered the Galaxy anyway.

This was also an interesting concept in the experimental 3rd edition Codex: Harlequin. Any army could take the Harlequins as an ally, not that the Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Tyranids, etc... would actively ally themselves with the Harlequins, but that the Harlequins would often appear on the the battlefield to complete a mysterious objective while the two parties were engaged in hostilities.

Only problem with that is that the Tyranids and Necrons, despite not having a reason to eat each other, both have conflicting goals; the Necrons want souls. Lots of souls. The Tyranids want biomass. Lots of biomass. So what happens when the two both find guys like humies or eldar with biomass and souls?

They fight. They can't share the catch, after all.

Which makes me sad, as I like both Necrons and Tyranids, and don't want those cute little guys killing each other.

Exarch_Nektel wrote:I think that tyranids and necrons are linked only in that they are both in the same galaxy at the same time.

It's possible that the Outsider and the C'tan he devoured formed some sort of wierd hive-mind after they fled the galaxy, it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened in Sci-fi (Star Trek Destiny series, creation of the borg)

Except that the Outsider is a C'tan (i.e. sentient cloud of energy from this dimension) and the Hive Mind is (at least) the collected thoughts of the Tyranid race linked together in the Warp. It's that distinction that prevents any C'tan from "being" the Hive Mind, and why even the notion of a C'tan having dealings with the Hive Mind (which is so monstrously psychically powerful that it blankets the Warp in light-years' wide expanses) is hard to justify in any way.

i hope that this game/ story doesnt have an ending just keeps going on and brought through out generations.

I really think its as simple as necrons want to destroy all life.

Tyranids want to eat all life.

Necrons aren't technically living and provide no biomass so there's no point in fighting them. *UNLESS the necrons were attempting to destroy a potential source of biomass*

Necrons avoid tyranids because if the tyranids do achieve their goal and consume EVERYTHING, then they will just starve to death wiping their entire race out, thus equaling a win for the necrons.

Just to throw in my $0.02, Say the outsider was the one responsible for the creation of the tyrnids(sp), He is obviously a completely different c'tan then the others who has been referred to as crazy from one source or another. Who's to say his creations can use the warp as a means to an end? The faster they kill the more he absorbs or whatever it is the c'tan do to life. Again just my $0.02

Someone mentioned the Enslavers earlier, and I was just reading the Codex last night where it mentioned them being a problem during the war against the Old Ones. Now, what exactly would the Necrons (or the C'tan) have to fear from Enslavers?

...besides the obvious that they're warp creatures...

I don't.


Because that would be too convenient, cliched, and stereotypical, and I'd rather go for something more original and amusing, like the Tyranids NOT being connected to the thrice-damned Old Ones...

Gearhead wrote:Someone mentioned the Enslavers earlier, and I was just reading the Codex last night where it mentioned them being a problem during the war against the Old Ones. Now, what exactly would the Necrons (or the C'tan) have to fear from Enslavers?

...besides the obvious that they're warp creatures...

I'll field this one.

Firstly, the Enslavers are, en masse, powerful psykers able to overwhelm entire worlds with their bizzare mix of Warp magics and freaky alien biology. If nothing else, they were a plague of giant germs that could tear you in half, blast you with extra-dimensional energies and command the nearby organic creatures to attack you on their behalf. The Necron armies were powerful indeed - the ruled much of the galaxy and exterminated trillions of lives... but the Enslavers are one of those opponents who can wash you away on a given world through literally unending numbers. Not a foe to be taken lightly, especially given the number of psychic organic races which the Enslavers could dominate and convert into portals for more of their kind.

Secondly, and more critically, the Enslavers were consuming the organic races the C'tan sought to use as cattle. The C'tan projected that if allowed to run its course, the Enslaver plague would end all organic life, leaving no delicious sentient races for the C'tan themselves to feed on (which was one of the cornerstones of the C'tan/Old One war). While the Necrons could certainly fight back against the Enslavers if they were brought to battle, the Enslavers could emerge wherever there were pskers and quickly decimate the population by converting psykers into living portals through which more Enslavers could travel and by dominating the rest for use in warfare.

On the whole, the Enslavers weren't so much a mortal threat to the C'tan and the Necrons so much as they were a pestilence which was going to wipe out the living crops over which the C'tan were going to war.

thrice-damned Old Ones...

Best use of words EVAR

Xyptc wrote:

Gearhead wrote:Someone mentioned the Enslavers earlier, and I was just reading the Codex last night where it mentioned them being a problem during the war against the Old Ones. Now, what exactly would the Necrons (or the C'tan) have to fear from Enslavers?

...besides the obvious that they're warp creatures...

I'll field this one.

Firstly, the Enslavers are, en masse, powerful psykers able to overwhelm entire worlds with their bizzare mix of Warp magics and freaky alien biology. If nothing else, they were a plague of giant germs that could tear you in half, blast you with extra-dimensional energies and command the nearby organic creatures to attack you on their behalf. The Necron armies were powerful indeed - the ruled much of the galaxy and exterminated trillions of lives... but the Enslavers are one of those opponents who can wash you away on a given world through literally unending numbers. Not a foe to be taken lightly, especially given the number of psychic organic races which the Enslavers could dominate and convert into portals for more of their kind.

Secondly, and more critically, the Enslavers were consuming the organic races the C'tan sought to use as cattle. The C'tan projected that if allowed to run its course, the Enslaver plague would end all organic life, leaving no delicious sentient races for the C'tan themselves to feed on (which was one of the cornerstones of the C'tan/Old One war). While the Necrons could certainly fight back against the Enslavers if they were brought to battle, the Enslavers could emerge wherever there were pskers and quickly decimate the population by converting psykers into living portals through which more Enslavers could travel and by dominating the rest for use in warfare.

On the whole, the Enslavers weren't so much a mortal threat to the C'tan and the Necrons so much as they were a pestilence which was going to wipe out the living crops over which the C'tan were going to war.

Am I the only one who thinks that the Enslavers are just daemons?

Probably not, but you'd also not be the only one that's wrong...

Dark Heresy: Creatures Anathema goes into the Enslavers a little more than the average source. They're listed under Xenos, and they're a heavily warp-based creature, but still a creature rather than a daemon.

Melissia wrote:Probably not, but you'd also not be the only one that's wrong...

Dark Heresy: Creatures Anathema goes into the Enslavers a little more than the average source. They're listed under Xenos, and they're a heavily warp-based creature, but still a creature rather than a daemon.

See, now why can't they just put that in the actual codex instead of selling yet another book for the information....

... Dark Heresy is a ROLEPLAYING game. They NEED the in depth information. Your group can actually face off against an Enslaver or three (though they're probably screwed if they haven't a good plan). There are no Enslavers in 40k Tabletop. Therefor you don't need to know...

Melissia wrote:... Dark Heresy is a ROLEPLAYING game. They NEED the in depth information. Your group can actually face off against an Enslaver or three (though they're probably screwed if they haven't a good plan). There are no Enslavers in 40k Tabletop. Therefor you don't need to know...

Never heard of Dark Heresy, Take it that its like D&D?

Anyway, Still have to say no to the linked idea.

The C'tan see the bugs as enemies if the Necrons do not. The C'tan feed off life force. If the bugs kill everything than the C'tan have to feed off the bugs and it's probably like eating a ricecake. You can eat them but they probably dont taste very good. It's also very possible the bugs can feed off whatever powers the necrons. Some force must make them move. Maybe it's edible. Most likely the reason for not seeing them fight is the lack of psychic energy (or removal of it)on necron tomb worlds. Maybe it interferes with the bugs communication so they avoid it and since Necrons themselves don't view bugs anymore of a threat than...say bugs..could be a reason.

It's far more likely the 'nids are just another race however the Tau the only other non psychic race are possibly children of the Necrons. The whole greater good would have a very sinister reason behind it. The Tau most likely are not children of the old ones and their amazingly rapid technological rise would have to have some benefactor behind it. Why not the necrons/c'tan?

Also considering how fast the the Orks multiply and because I don't see the Eldar becoming a dying race because of fighting with their Dark cousins, a relentless army wheedling the Eldar down and keeping the Orks in check for eons seems to make sense. Could also explain why there are no more races if the bugs killed more and more on each advance. Humankind is still in 40K universe terms fairly new to the scene and chaos though being around forever and (With the exception of maybe Slanesh) they didn't really come into their own until Horus opened the door to legions upon legions of followers.

The fluff does point to the Machine God being one of the two remaining c'tan. If so that could spell a lot of problems for everyone if he wakes up. And wouldn't that be awesome to see if they really did it in game.

BTW other things I'd love to see but will never happen.

Cypher (not really a bad guy and generally misunderstood) finally waking the Lion and the Lion taking over

The Eldar die off and their god of death is strong enough to kill Slanesh and does. The energy from that creating neoeldar.

Someone on Terra on the cleaning crew cleaning the emperors throne needs a plug for his vacum and unplugs the golden throne. Killing the emperor once and for all. But the emperor comes back and either Kills the cleaning crew member or makes him secratary of state.

Leman Russ comes back and since the space wolves stop looking for him and start fighting stuff causing the destruction of several legions of traitor marines.

Slarg232 wrote:Never heard of Dark Heresy, Take it that its like D&D?

Anyway, Still have to say no to the linked idea.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=50&enmi=Dark%20Heresy
It is like DnD in the same sense that Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Flames of War, and Warmachine are like 40k. IE, it's a roleplaying game.

The mechanics are dramatically different, however, and the setting is, of course, 40k.

It's also a canon source of material. People such as Andy Hoare, Dan Abnett, and John Blanche (who is a major contributor to 40k, if you can get past his crappy artwork) all wrote for and contributed to Dark Heresy and its various supplements.

chaos though being around forever and (With the exception of maybe Slanesh) they didn't really come into their own until Horus opened the door to legions upon legions of followers.

No, Chaos came on their own even before then. During the war between the Old Ones and the C'tan, Chaos Daemons made a mess of both sides' plans, as the psychic nature of the Old Ones' created races caused such strong ripples in the Warp as to create Daemons.

No, Chaos came on their own even before then. During the war between the Old Ones and the C'tan, Chaos Daemons made a mess of both sides' plans, as the psychic nature of the Old Ones' created races caused such strong ripples in the Warp as to create Daemons.

I don't doubt that but I don't see Chaos as a major player in the 40k Universe until they turned Horus. Then "Bam" they had the worshipers and manpower. Chaos does almost nothing on it's own without the traitor marine legions. Especially since Eldar weapons kill Daemos like it's going out of style. The Eldar (dark or otherwise) are too busy with leaking overactive bladders worrying about slanesh to worry about the other 3 gods. That leaves before humas, the Orks which already have Gork and Mork (who may be Daemons in their own right), and 'Nids which hive mind could very well be more powerful than they are.

Commissar wrote:I don't doubt that but I don't see Chaos as a major player in the 40k Universe until they turned Horus.

Horus was a part of one of the more recent big schemes by Chaos-- one of the few times the dark gods worked together-- to counter the Emperor as a threat to their dominion, but I laugh at the idea that he was the first, or for that matter the best of these attempts. Chaos has dominated entire RACES of aliens, quite a few of which existed long before humans ever left that little blue and green rock.

Just because such battles are not recorded in human history (and let's face it, most of GW's fluff is exactly that) does not make any difference. Chaos has existed since the first sentient being in the galaxy was born, so long before humans that the human mind cannot even begin to comprehend the amount of time that Chaos and its servants have fought, both against other enemies, and against eachother.

I think they aren't linked within the universe of 40k itself. However, I think that they share a role as balancing story elements.

The Necrons are the very embodiment of death: they seek to kill all sentient life in the universe. The already succeeded once. They aren't even living creatures.

The Tyranids, on the other hand, represent the concept of life taken to it's logical extreme: a life form so virulent, so driven to survive, that it kills and consumes everything in its path, transforming it into raw living matter to reproduce itself.

I am sure no one intended for it to be so, but I see the tyranids and the necrons as a metaphor: in the grim darkness of the future, both life and death are your enemy. There is no mercy in life, and death is no escape. It adds to the feeling of humanity being hemmed in from all sides, even from the forces of reality themselves.

Just my take on it, I could be wrong.

Melissia wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:Never heard of Dark Heresy, Take it that its like D&D?

Anyway, Still have to say no to the linked idea.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=50&enmi=Dark%20Heresy
It is like DnD in the same sense that Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Flames of War, and Warmachine are like 40k. IE, it's a roleplaying game.

The mechanics are dramatically different, however, and the setting is, of course, 40k.

It's also a canon source of material. People such as Andy Hoare, Dan Abnett, and John Blanche (who is a major contributor to 40k, if you can get past his crappy artwork) all wrote for and contributed to Dark Heresy and its various supplements.

chaos though being around forever and (With the exception of maybe Slanesh) they didn't really come into their own until Horus opened the door to legions upon legions of followers.

No, Chaos came on their own even before then. During the war between the Old Ones and the C'tan, Chaos Daemons made a mess of both sides' plans, as the psychic nature of the Old Ones' created races caused such strong ripples in the Warp as to create Daemons.

Creatures Anathema convinced me more than ever that its just best to kill all aliens on sight. Scary, scary aliens in there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's been said the the warp was actually a nice tranquil place once but then the Old Ones created the eldar to use the warp as a weapon. Then things went to hell (literally). Basically I blame everything that's wrong in the universe on the eldar.

Well I don't think that the Necrons are controlling the tyranids directly but tyranid fluff has repeatedly stated that one of the reasons the tyranids may have come to our galaxy is that they are running from a race even more terrible. I always thought that, that race was the Necrons.

Think about it if the necrons are preparing for their gods to return they don't want any resistance organized toward them. So they present the galaxy with a much more pressing threat to distract them from their awakening. Go out into the great unknown and either create or find the tyranids and proceed to herd them towards our galaxy. Biggest distraction they could have asked for.

Also the C'tan don't eat souls they eat bioelectricity. In fact in the Necron 'dex Abaddon talks to a daemon who says that daemons gather around the c'tan so that whenever it feeds they can eat the soul of its victim.

The Unending wrote:Well I don't think that the Necrons are controlling the tyranids directly but tyranid fluff has repeatedly stated that one of the reasons the tyranids may have come to our galaxy is that they are running from a race even more terrible. I always thought that, that race was the Necrons.

quote]

Where does it say that?